Dez Wells sues Xavier.

[PMI]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-guard-dez-wells-suing-xavier-for-expulsion-021302176.html

Hope he wins.

I'm no lawyer, but I imagine that since Xavier expelled him for "breaking the Student Code of Conduct," it will be tough for him to win this. It sucks that this story is resurfacing, but I don't blame him one bit.

[mistabeecee41]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-guard-dez-wells-suing-xavier-for-expulsion-021302176.html

[Kahns Krazy]

Oh good. I was hoping this story would come back up.

[BMoreX]

Ugh, I thought this was over.

[XU 87]

I don't. While I think this should have been handled differently, and I don't think he should have been expelled, he got his hearing and lost. This is a slippery slope if universities are going to get sued because they followed federal law. And if Joe Deters thought this was such a sham, why did he even present the case to the grand jury? Joe Deters is just another politician who will do anything to get his name in the media.

People complained about how X handled the two cases before Dez (too soft on the accused), and then complain that X was too tough on the accused (Dez). X was in a no-win situation.

If you want to blame someone, blame the federal government for putting its foot up X's ass and for having all their mandates which X had to follow.

Maybe Dez should have filed this lawsuit last year and asked to be reinstated instead of now asking for a few million dollars a year later.

[STL_XUfan]

I'm no lawyer, but I imagine that since Xavier expelled him for "breaking the Student Code of Conduct," it will be tough for him to win this. It sucks that this story is resurfacing, but I don't blame him one bit.

Agreed. However I still see an out of court settlement coming, the real question is how big does the number have to be to avoid a public apology? At what price point does the shame of a public apology outweigh the public fiasco of an open trial in this matter.

(fwiw I think dez loses at trial)

[paulxu]

If Deters "had concerns" why he hell did he take it to the grand jury. What a load of crap.
What a no win situation for everyone concerned.

[LadyMuskie]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Michael-scott-no-god-no.gif

[XU 87]

I heard the lawsuit also quotes "well known Xavier Hoops poster Gladdenguy".

[xubrew]

Ten-to-one it will be settled out of court and won't even come close to seeing a court room. I'm not a lawyer either, but it's my experience that when universities get sued for expelling someone for a stupid reason, they tend to settle and not disclose the terms.

If Xavier did not follow their own rules and/or acted hastily and unfairly, he's got a very good case. The fact that Xavier was under pressure for how they handled the previous cases probably actually works in his favor.

[STL_XUfan]

I think this is a good time to remind everyone that Luther Smith still draws a pay check from our university....

[nkymuskie]

I think this is a good time to remind everyone that Luther Smith still draws a pay check from our university....

Luther Smith is a piece of trash. He is the only thing I hate about my alma mater. Fire his *ss.

[gladdenguy]

Team Dez!!! F$&k em up. Bastards. Get what you deserve.

[Caveat]

If Deters "had concerns" why he hell did he take it to the grand jury. What a load of crap.
What a no win situation for everyone concerned.

Virtually all rape cases forwarded to a DAs office at least go to a grand jury, regardless of strength.

[gladdenguy]

Xavierpopes just laying it on Xavier right now. Wow.
Xavier Judicial system is seriously flawed and at Xavier you are guilty until proven innocent.
Michael Graham needs to get railroaded and take Luther Smith with him.
#FreeDez

[PMI]

If you want to blame someone, blame the federal government for putting its foot up X's ass and for having all their mandates which X had to follow.


Or blame Xavier for mishandling a very serious situation(s) that led to the federal government taking an interest in what goes on on campus? Particularly blame Luther Smith and the other bitch for sleazily trying to sweep the situation under the rug?

[PMI]

Virtually all rape cases forwarded to a DAs office at least go to a grand jury, regardless of strength.

This is not a rape case. Not even close to it.

[wkrq59]

Friends and you are my friends, (boy is that an assumption), I thought at the start of this it was all about $$$$$$$--From the faux outrage over the unaceptable behavior to the suspensions following 76-53 to the moving of the shootout (never classic) to the phony cum baya to playing for the Freedom Center, it still is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$. Alumni thinking their gifts to the school entitle them a place on the Board of Trustees to collective ani whose radical ideas and hatred of Chris Mack seem to permeate these boards whenever possible. It's all about the $$$$$. Now, at least Xavier is in the bIg East so we can smile when the mid-major shit emerges.

:laugh::slapfight::whack::swordfight:

[DC Muskie]

Dez is suing Xavier because Duke students call him a rapist in a college game. This is what this circus has now turned to.

Good luck Dez. I hope you get every dime for your emotional distress.

[Nigel Tufnel]

If Deters "had concerns" why he hell did he take it to the grand jury. What a load of crap.
What a no win situation for everyone concerned.

This is just one man's opinion....I could be dead wrong....but I've seen this argument made, and while its a valid question, I think there is a very logical reason why Dez's case went to the grand jury. Deters is a publicly elected official. He has 2 choices when he gets this case and finds it to be ridiculous. 1) do nothing and likely face the wrath of constituents and/or opponents claiming that he is a Xavier Shill or favors athletes; or 2) let the process play itself out knowing that it would go nowhere and he can at least say he let the legal process play itself out. It was likely a 2 hour hearing. If I'm a politician, I think I let the process play itself out knowing nothing would come of it. What's the saying? You can indict a ham sandwich? I'm pretty sure deters knew it wasn't going anywhere.

I'm not saying its right...but to paraphrase Chris Rock...I understand, as a politician, why he let this go to the grand jury.

[waggy]

Again, isn't it a panel of his peers that make the decision? And isn't that what the feds require? It boils down to those two things imo - everything else is window dressing.

If the University is at fault somehow, then I'm all for them making restitution. But if the above two statements are accurate, then I'd like someone to explain how the University is at fault.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Dez is suing Xavier because Duke students call him a rapist in a college game. This is what this circus has now turned to.

Good luck Dez. I hope you get every dime for your emotional distress.

In the written word, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. But as far as I know, Dez's had a very good reputation as being a good person, student and athlete. Dealing with UNC, NC St and Duke fans chanting "you're a rapist" could easily cause extreme emotional distress. It would bother me...

[waggy]

In the written word, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. But as far as I know, Dez's had a very good reputation as being a good person, student and athlete. Dealing with UNC, NC St and Duke fans chanting "you're a rapist" could easily cause extreme emotional distress. It would bother me...


He should sue them.

[XU2011]

I think this is a good time to remind everyone that Luther Smith still draws a pay check from our university....

And so is the guy who was in charge of the whole Dez circus, Dave Johnson. Why in the world Graham promoted somebody to Associate Provost for Student Affairs whose only experience is in Campus Ministry is beyond me.

Grab some popcorn everyone, this ought to be good. The Board needs to be brought in on this "unprecedented" lawsuit in NCAA history. It needs to be settled quickly and quietly, and Graham has too big of an ego to do that.

[DC Muskie]

Seriously I hope Dez wins, because if he doesn't, his emotional distress is going to go up a few notches in opposing gyms.

I find two things hilarious about this suit:

1. That he is suing Xavier to "set the record straight" that he is not a rapist. Like people at Duke or Michigan State are going to stop heckling him about it.
2. That the suit comes after he spent a year playing basketball and Xavier got paid with the new Big East contract.

I hope Dez doesn't sue Xavier because I think he is a whiny, gold digging little bitch.

So like I said, I hope he wins. And then realizes he is exactly a whiny gold digging, little bitch because nothing will stop people from heckling him. Hell I might go to Maryland games and tell him as such.

Xavier helps him get eligible immediately, and Dez is suing for emotional distress. Who does he think he is Brian Banks?

[XU2011]

Again, isn't it a panel of his peers that make the decision? And isn't that what the feds require? It boils down to those two things imo - everything else is window dressing.

If the University is at fault somehow, then I'm all for them making restitution. But if the above two statements are accurate, then I'd like someone to explain how the University is at fault.

The University Conduct Board is made up of administrators, faculty and students, who as Deters said are not qualified to make decisions like that. So saying it was a "panel of his peers" isn't really accurate.

That I know for sure. But the appeal, which Dez did appeal, I am not sure where/who that goes to. Whether it's Graham, whether is Chadwick/Johnson, or another panel of administrators/faculty/students.

[DC Muskie]

I still enjoy reading how Deters is an expert on how Universities decide who and who can't attend their colleges.

In Deters world, you can only be kicked out of school is if you are put in jail.

[waggy]

The University Conduct Board is made up of administrators, faculty and students, who as Deters said are not qualified to make decisions like that. So saying it was a "panel of his peers" isn't really accurate.




So who is on the conduct board is in question? That would be the first time I'd heard that.

[waggy]

One additional point: "The University", ie people like Father Graham and Chris Mack, certainly don't want to get rid of Dez Wells, who is a great basketball player, and whom there was a considerable investment.

[XU2011]

So who is on the conduct board is in question? That would be the first time I'd heard that.

Not sure what you are getting at. The complete list of all members of Xavier's Conduct board can be found by a simple search on google.

It includes 8 faculty members recommended to Graham by the Faculty Committee, 4 administrators recommended by Dave Johnson and 10 students recommended by SGA. Again, probably not a group I would call a "panel of his peers"

*Also, just read the appeal does not go through the Conduct board. The appeal goes directly to the Associate Provost for Student Life (Dave Johnson) or his designee.

[Nigel Tufnel]

He should sue them.

Damn...again, the sarcastic meter isn't working. Judging on your other posts, I'm guessing sarcastic.

My opinion, which means little, is that, LEGALLY, this lawsuit is far from ridiculous. I think it survives Summary Judgment, which means the discovery process begins. Does X really want that? I would guess a Fed Judge would allow the Dept of Ed investigations be released under a subpoena. Maybe I'm being pessimistic...but my opinion is that this is far from legally ridiculous. Hope I'm wrong...but I don't think this ends well for X.

[waggy]

Not sure what you are getting at. The complete list of all members of Xavier's Conduct board can be found by a simple search on google.

It includes 8 faculty members recommended to Graham by the Faculty Committee, 4 administrators recommended by Dave Johnson and 10 students recommended by SGA. Again, probably not a group I would call a "panel of his peers"

Who is on the panel is immaterial imho. I only threw the adjective "peers" in there because I thought it accurate, and it supposed it is at least partially so. The overall point though is that this wasn't a decision the University leadership made I don't think. I think Mack said he cried.

[waggy]

Damn...again, the sarcastic meter isn't working. Judging on your other posts, I'm guessing sarcastic.

My opinion, which means little, is that, LEGALLY, this lawsuit is far from ridiculous. I think it survives Summary Judgment, which means the discovery process begins. Does X really want that? I would guess a Fed Judge would allow the Dept of Ed investigations be released under a subpoena. Maybe I'm being pessimistic...but my opinion is that this is far from legally ridiculous. Hope I'm wrong...but I don't think this ends well for X.


I think a case against ACC student sections would be better than anything he has against X. X would be stupid to settle this.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I think a case against ACC student sections would be better than anything he has against X. X would be stupid to settle this.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out. You think X wins a Summary Judgment? Don't think there is a legit causation argument against X?

[Muskiefornia]

Xavier should crush this meritless lawsuit. There's a big difference between being wronged and having a federal cause of action.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Xavier should crush this meritless lawsuit. There's a big difference between being wronged and having a federal cause of action.

Wish I was as confident as you. And what is the difference?

[waggy]

It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out. You think X wins a Summary Judgment? Don't think there is a legit causation argument against X?


A lot factors play into a summary judgement, so I wouldn't go that far. X takes a PR hit right now, then it comes down to how much it costs to make it go away. Personally, I think it would have to be a pretty small number is I were X, and I don't think the other side is thinking small numbers. I see a fight coming.

[Muskiefornia]

Trying to get my hands on the complaint before I say more.

[XU2011]

The overall point though is that this wasn't a decision the University leadership made I don't think. .

The denial of the appeal was solely (non-Athletics) University leadership.

[xubrew]

I think a case against ACC student sections would be better than anything he has against X. X would be stupid to settle this.

Chances are X will settle this.

The terms of the settlement will not be disclosed. They'll likely have to exhaust more resources to take it to trial and win than they would just settling it. And, they can negotiate nondisclosure as part of the settlement. If he has a case, any case at all, even if it's a weak case, schools will typically want to avoid a situation where a person is publicly making that case in court, especially if it's high profile.

They will settle.

[Nigel Tufnel]

A lot factors play into a summary judgement, so I wouldn't go that far. X takes a PR hit right now, then it comes down to how much it costs to make it go away. Personally, I think it would have to be a pretty small number is I were X, and I don't think the other side is thinking small numbers. I see a fight coming.

Not sure how far I went. If it ends up being a question of fact though...Summary Judgment won't be granted. This feels like a question of fact case. I fear discovery for X. I'd be worried about what will be disclosed. Like i said, I may entirely wrong....but this worries me.

[Muskiefornia]

Just a little sample of who is representing Dez.

http://southfloridalawyers.blogspot.com/2009/06/immune-system-of-bankruptcy-lawyer.html

[xu2013]

Good for Dez. Hope he wins.

[GoMuskies]

I hope it gets to discovery. Would certainly provide some interesting reading. And if Xavier f'd this up as bad as I suspect they might have, I'd like for that to be public. And if they didn't, I'd like to find that out, too.

[Muskie]

I'm not sure what the benefit will be here for Dez. Litigation will be a distraction for him during a season when he is preparing for the NBA draft. Also I have to wonder if this sort of action will negatively affect his draft stock in some way.

[paulxu]

I, for one, am very disappointed in this entire mess, and in Dez Wells.

1. Starts with he said/she said situation, always difficult.
2. Goes to law enforcement per standard rules
3. Goes to grand jury, they don't indict. Did it have to go there? I don't think so. Look at Kavanaugh in Dayton. Don't think that made it to grand jury, and it was twice with the same girl.
4. So maybe Deters is grandstanding.

5. Back to school. Caught in vise with earlier cases causing DOJ to be over their shoulder. (VERY messed up situations; do you leave accused on campus during legal proceedings, even if found innocent; future "fear for safety" of victim constantly in play, etc.)
6. School sends to Conduct Board
7. All students sign conduct agreement. Board finds violation (pretty sure his own admissions were enough here). Board expels, appeal denied.

8. Then Xavier helps him overcome one year sit waiver at Maryland so he can play right away.
9. If he has a cause of action...what is it? He caused own problem with Honor Code violation, ridiculous as the code may be.
10. If he can sue, why not Kavanaugh suing Dayton?

I do not understand this at all. I don't see what the benefit is to him to resurrect the whole deal over again, and subject himself and the school to this publicity. It stinks. I don't think Xavier settles as it would set a precedent for similar situations.

[GuyFawkes38]

I do not understand this at all. I don't see what the benefit is to him to resurrect the whole deal over again, and subject himself and the school to this publicity. It stinks. I don't think Xavier settles as it would set a precedent for similar situations.

I agree. As more information leaked regarding the event (which Dez's camp leaked), it became clear that Dez acted inappropriately. Yes, X might not have handled the proceedings properly and fairly, but that still doesn't change Dez's actions. Why would he want to make this more public with the purpose of clearing his name?

[Masterofreality]

So, what the F is an institution to do?

Forget the fact that Xavier had the stones, which places like Marquette did not have, to stand by it's Code of Conduct and expel its BEST basketball player.

If Xavier had let it slide, they get sued, probably by the girl and the Feds for not protecting it's students. Now they are getting sued by a headline chasing shyster lawyer for "wrongful dismissal" via its own code of conduct. This whole thing is BS.

All because a kid didn't wrap up and lied at about it...in the moment? I repeat. This guy Ginsberg is trying to say that Xavier is somehow responsible because Dez lied and spewed then followed their own Code?. "Clear Dez name". From what? Spilling too early? Giving the girl a wet surprise? I can't wait until these facts get published.

And for all those "fans" that continually tweet about how Dez was "wronged". Stop it already. Where the F is the discussion of personal responsibility?

The kid made a mistake and both he and Xavier had moved on about it. Now this a year later? Jeezuz.

[TapsPlunkett]

"Xavier helps him overcome one year sit waiver" - that's not supported by any evidence - and from what I have been told not true. X will settle because they can't afford discovery.

[XU2011]

"Xavier helps him overcome one year sit waiver" - that's not supported by any evidence - and from what I have been told not true. X will settle because they can't afford discovery.

Exactly. Xavier did not HELP Dez overcome a one year sit waiver. All they did was not actively campaign the NCAA to enforce the one year rule.

[casualfan]

X will settle as well they should.

Can you imagine trying to recruit with this out there?

[Masterofreality]

X will settle as well they should.

Can you imagine trying to recruit with this out there?

No....they....will....not.

[Masterofreality]

"Xavier helps him overcome one year sit waiver" - that's not supported by any evidence - and from what I have been told not true. X will settle because they can't afford discovery.

I can't wait for the discovery on this. This shyster lawyer is going after money, no matter how he can get it, and Dez will be embarrassed.

[XU2011]

Forget the fact that Xavier had the stones, which places like Marquette did not have, to stand by it's Code of Conduct and expel its BEST basketball player.



Please, don't act like this was some moral or ethical highground Xavier was operating on. You can't imagine the stuff that Xavier made go away or swept under the rug with the basketball program over the past several years. No, this wasn't due to Graham and Xavier having "the stones" to do anything. This had everything to do with Xavier being federally indicted for their gross mishandling of several sexual assault cases over many years, which stemmed from the VP and Provost and his Associates Provost total incompetence and a lack of leadership.

Graham had to make a statement that things were different and he was in control now.... and Dez was the pawn in his game.

[paulxu]

Exactly. Xavier did not HELP Dez overcome a one year sit waiver. All they did was not actively campaign the NCAA to enforce the one year rule.

If the NCAA calls, and you have the power to block (as most kids do sit out the year), and you don't...you've probably helped in some fashion.

As to this Ginsberg guy, and his other lawsuits, I can see that Vilma and Singh might pay him if he loses, but who pays here? Dez' family? Nice.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/1/17/3888416/jonathan-vilma-defamation-suit-dismissed-roger-goodell

http://jacksonville.com/sports/golf/2013-07-25/story/pga-tour-vijay-singh-claims-pure-fiction

[XU2011]

No....they....will....not.

For the sake of Xavier, I hope they do. It needs to go away quickly and quietly. Xavier has had enough bad, negative national news covereage over the past 2 years. X doesn't need it's dirty laundry coming about their past with stuff like this.

[GuyFawkes38]

Professional teams will take note of this. Ugh. I get the feeling that Dez is receiving poor guidance.

[XU2011]

If the NCAA calls, and you have the power to block (as most kids do sit out the year), and you don't...you've probably helped in some fashion.



And you know that, how? There may be an article that reports that... I might honestly have missed that.

And I'd be interested if it was the "University" or "Athletics." Because they had 2 substantially different views on the situation and its obvious mishandling.

[Masterofreality]

Please, don't act like this was some moral or ethical highground Xavier was operating on. You can't imagine the stuff that Xavier made go away or swept under the rug with the basketball program over the past several years. No, this wasn't due to Graham and Xavier having "the stones" to do anything. This had everything to do with Xavier being federally indicted for their gross mishandling of several sexual assault cases over many years, which stemmed from the VP and Provost and his Associates Provost total incompetence and a lack of leadership.

Graham had to make a statement that things were different and he was in control now.... and Dez was the pawn in his game.

Ok. So according to you, a Jesuit Institution doesn't operate on a "moral or ethical highground"? What? That is the most ludicrous statement I may have ever read on this or any other board. You act like there was no Disciplinary Board before, and that there were no students on the Review Board, and that there was no appeal process. You act like Xavier was a lawless "wild west" setting. Huh?

We've all heard the stories about what has allegedly been "swept under the rug". Well, none of those cases has ever gotten the scrutiny that Dez's case has so we don't know all the facts in those cases.

In any event, So, what? You don't finally draw a line in the sand and say "no more" - even if the "sweeping " is true? By the way. Graham is President. I believe that he is supposed to be "in control".

The outrage over losing the team's best basketball player for irresponsibly spewing a load is ridiculous.

[TapsPlunkett]

And you know that, how? There may be an article that reports that... I might honestly have missed that.

And I'd be interested if it was the "University" or "Athletics." Because they had 2 substantially different views on the situation and its obvious mishandling.

Bingo - and exactly why this settles.

[Masterofreality]

If the NCAA calls, and you have the power to block (as most kids do sit out the year), and you don't...you've probably helped in some fashion.

As to this Ginsberg guy, and his other lawsuits, I can see that Vilma and Singh might pay him if he loses, but who pays here? Dez' family? Nice.


Contingency....for pub.

[GoMuskies]

Professional teams will take note of this. Ugh. I get the feeling that Dez is receiving poor guidance.

Pro teams are already aware of what happened between Dez and X. I seriously doubt a lawsuit is going to make things worse for Dez in that regard.

[Milhouse]

Professional teams will take note of this. Ugh. I get the feeling that Dez is receiving poor guidance.

My thoughts here too...This had pretty much gone away. Dez will probably never be considered a "first round lock" these things aren't necessarily going in his favor in terms of an NBA future.

Also why the delay on this? He was kicked out almost a year ago. His season ended 5 months ago. Is it just taking so long for this to become public?

Wish this would just go away and Xavier would not be in the News anymore.

Bad August for X.

[NY44]

This is disappointing. Dez has not really lost anything through his expulsion. He went to another stellar program, he got to play in an even better league without missing a year, and Deters' comments made sure it was Xavier's reputation that was harmed, not his.

Maybe Dez is getting worried about making it in the NBA. Gotta get his funds up.

[paulxu]

And you know that, how? There may be an article that reports that... I might honestly have missed that.

And I'd be interested if it was the "University" or "Athletics." Because they had 2 substantially different views on the situation and its obvious mishandling.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/07/ncaa_transfer_rule_college_coaches_can_block_their _former_players_from_getting.single.html

[XU2011]

Ok. So according to you, a Jesuit Institution doesn't operate on a "moral or ethical highground"? What? That is the most ludicrous statement I may have ever read on this or any other board. You act like there was no Disciplinary Board before, and that there were no students on the Review Board, and that there was no appeal process. You act like Xavier was a lawless "wild west" setting. Huh?

We've all heard the stories about what has allegedly been "swept under the rug". Well, none of those cases has ever gotten the scrutiny that Dez's case has so we don't know all the facts in those cases.

In any event, So, what? You don't finally draw a line in the sand and say "no more" - even if the "sweeping " is true? By the way. Graham is President. I believe that he is supposed to be "in control".

The outrage over losing the team's best basketball player for irresponsibly spewing a load is ridiculous.

What I'm saying, and you would gather if you read my post, is that Xavier's decision to expel Dez was not because of some moral or ethical highground they operate on. If that was the case, there would have been countless major disciplinary actions within the basketball program totally swept under the rug or made to go away. If that was the case, Luther Smith wouldn't let those convicted of sexual assault stay on campus to "finish the semester." Instead, this was a total knee-jerk reaction by Graham and Chadwick to the current, at the time, federal indictment over how Xavier grossly mishandled sexual assault and rape cases over several years.

[TapsPlunkett]

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/07/ncaa_transfer_rule_college_coaches_can_block_their _former_players_from_getting.single.html

Dez was expelled -- Xavier couldn't block him

[Masterofreality]

What I'm saying, and you would gather if you read my post, is that Xavier's decision to expel Dez was not because of some moral or ethical highground they operate on. If that was the case, there would have been countless major disciplinary actions within the basketball program totally swept under the rug or made to go away. If that was the case, Luther Smith wouldn't let those convicted of sexual assault stay on campus to "finish the semester." Instead, this was a total knee-jerk reaction by Graham and Chadwick to the current, at the time, federal indictment over how Xavier grossly mishandled sexual assault and rape cases over several years.

I read your post. This was not a "knee-jerk" reaction.

What? There was no procedure of investiagions, Disciplinary Boards, with an appeal available? Of course there was. You make it sound like that this whole case was handled in a matter of a day...with no regard for the fallout that would ensue from a high profile person being at the center of it. Inane on it's face.

Since you seem to know so much, how about posting all of those "countless disciplinary actions" that have allegedly occurred in the basketball program-other than the CJ Anderson case which was pretty public. Let's all judge those cases. Bring it.

Look, Luther Smith should have been sacked years ago, but that has no bearing here. None. Nada. This lawsuit, if it proceeds to discovery...and it will from Xavier's side...will embarrass the hell out of Dez Wells. He and his family have been sold a bill of goods here, with no upside, from a self-serving barrister.

[Kahns Krazy]

One thing I do find interesting is that Dez had an absolutle right of student privacy in this case and chose to waive it by going public about what the allegations were. Now that the information that he chose to release is coming back to haunt him, he wants to sue the University for the emotional distress that he caused himself?

I would have a hard time with a decision that led to the University paying anything out on that.

[Masterofreality]

Dez was expelled -- Xavier couldn't block him

Not the point. Xavier never tried to block him. NCAA decision. There was info solicited from the XU Athletic Dept.

[Masterofreality]

One thing I do find interesting is that Dez had an absolutle right of student privacy in this case and chose to waive it by going public about what the allegations were. Now that the information that he chose to release is coming back to haunt him, he wants to sue the University for the emotional distress that he caused himself?

I would have a hard time with a decision that led to the University paying anything out on that.

This ......X 10

[paulxu]

If that was the case, Luther Smith wouldn't let those convicted of sexual assault stay on campus to "finish the semester."

And that's the crux of this whole deal. As far as I know, the prior guy Marron was not convicted...he was found not guilty.
Forget the personalities involved, just consider this from a school as a whole's perspective. What the hell are they suppose to do?

You get a he said/she said case. Very tough. You correctly get law enforcement involved. While that's going on you have a BIG problem.
What do you do with the supposed assailant? (Most often a guy). If there are no witnesses you are in a really big bind. So you send him off campus, he gets found not guilty, you let him back on campus...and the complainant goes to Feds saying they fear for their safety.

If you are a school, you are basically screwed. No win situation. Honor code violations if proven or admitted to at least offers you a solution.

I return to the Kavanaugh comparison and would love for an Ohio lawyer to weigh in. I don't think Deters had to take it to the grand jury. (Maybe he did). But everything after that went the same way as Kavanaugh...Honor Code violation, expulsion (suspension, whatever). If Deters didn't have to take to grand jury and he really thought there wasn't enough evidence, all this is on him. If he hadn't, and it had been handled quietly with no publicity as to facts, and Dez had transferred, etc. then we'd be pass this.

If anyone is to blame (and I'm right about Ohio law) then this bad publicity is on Deters. If I'm wrong, there still is no recourse for X other than expulsion. If he'd stayed you would have had the entire "fear for safety" factor following on the Marron case.

If you really believed the personalities handled the earlier cases poorly, the question is what could they have done differently? Trying to balance the rights of the accused and victim in a he said/she said is no cake walk.

[Milhouse]

Can TheXavierPopes twitter account please just stop already? I'm sure the person tweeting on there reads this. You're not helping Xavier's image at all with all your comments. You've graduated. Use your personal twitter account and move on. Stop acting as a Liason for the Student Body because you don't represent them. You represent one individual and that's how it should come across. I know when I went to school there people were incredibly annoyed with them. Reading those tweets from last night is incredibly annoying. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[NY44]

Can TheXavierPopes twitter account please just stop already? I'm sure the person tweeting on there reads this. You're not helping Xavier's image at all with all your comments. You've graduated. Use your personal twitter account and move on. Stop acting as a Liason for the Student Body because you don't represent them. You represent one individual and that's how it should come across. I know when I went to school there people were incredibly annoyed with them. Reading those tweets from last night is incredibly annoying. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

I couldn't agree with this more. I guess I was shopping at the wrong costume stores at college, they found one where you can get a pope costume that comes with the authority to speak for a student body and a Law degree.

[PMI]

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I would have to imagine that a regular college student who was expelled for something he/she felt he/she was not guilty of would take similar legal action. I know at least four people who have sued universities, and they all have to do with some kind of defamation of character or wrongful whatever. Dez is famous at Xavier (or infamous depending on how you view it) so obviously this is big news, but this isn't completely out of the norm is it, other than the fact that he's a well-known basketball player?

I don't think Dez is going to win this suit. He may have the "victory" of reaching a settlement. We'll see. But I don't think his character should be called into question for practicing his legal right. It strikes me as pretty high and mighty to call him a whiny little bitch and shrugging off what may very well be legitimate emotional distress. The kid had his reputation turned upside down at 19 or 20 years old. Who are any of you to judge what that might have done to him? And I don't really buy the argument that just because Dez had a right to student privacy, it's his fault that this had been made public. There was no way this story was staying private, as we all know. All silence would do for Dez is cause a stronger assumption that he is guilty. He was really in a no-win situation.

Lastly, I know this suit is Dez vs. the school, but does this mean that the name of the girl is going to come out now? I would think her life is about to get really difficult if that's the case. I'm not advocating being an asshole at all, but I also know there are a lot of assholes out there, and some of them still don't appreciate the way it all went down. Just something I've been curious about.

[Masterofreality]

Can TheXavierPopes twitter account please just stop already? I'm sure the person tweeting on there reads this. You're not helping Xavier's image at all with all your comments. You've graduated. Use your personal twitter account and move on. Stop acting as a Liason for the Student Body because you don't represent them. You represent one individual and that's how it should come across. I know when I went to school there people were incredibly annoyed with them. Reading those tweets from last night is incredibly annoying. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Exactly. Along that line, I tweeted this back at 6:30am today:

"@MOR_XU: @TheXavierPopes Stop it already. Not good for anybody-except for the headline chasing lawyer. Dez is at Maryland & doing fine. This was over"

[Masterofreality]

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I would have to imagine that a regular college student who was expelled for something he/she felt he/she was not guilty of would take similar legal action. I know at least four people who have sued universities, and they all have to do with some kind of defamation of character or wrongful whatever. Dez is famous at Xavier (or infamous depending on how you view it) so obviously this is big news, but this isn't completely out of the norm is it, other than the fact that he's a well-known basketball player?

I don't think Dez is going to win this suit. He may have the "victory" of reaching a settlement. We'll see. But I don't think his character should be called into question for practicing his legal right. It strikes me as pretty high and mighty to call him a whiny little bitch and shrugging off what may very well be legitimate emotional distress. The kid had his reputation turned upside down at 19 or 20 years old. Who are any of you to judge what that might have done to him? And I don't really buy the argument that just because Dez had a right to student privacy, it's his fault that this had been made public. There was no way this story was staying private, as we all know. All silence would do for Dez is cause a stronger assumption that he is guilty. He was really in a no-win situation.


P. I love ya, man, but please see Kahns comments above.

This isn't about "wrongful whatever". This is about a private school's Code of Conduct enforcement. Not even a criminal case.

If this case is about whether XU has the right to enforce it's own Code of Conduct, this thing will get rejected out of hand.

[paulxu]

Dez' attorney made this statement:

Xavier's silence for the past year and refusal to acknowledge how it mistreated Dez are inexcusable

How could X comment (to supposedly help Dez and avoid a lawsuit) when student privacy rules supposedly preclude comment?

This whole thing is a cluster****.

[Muskie]

Hypothetical: Let's talk work case scenario (I'm interested to hear from the "good for Dez crowd" especially). What if Dez wins his suit and a judgment is entered against the university for an astronomical amount of money. As as a result, X has to cut academic programs, raise tuition, raise athletic event tickets, and cut athletic programs. What's your take then?

I don't know what happened in that dorm room. At this point I've moved on from what happened in that Dorm Room and from what happened with the Conduct Board. I know some have not. I'm interested to read the Complaint, but it is typically tough to prove that a private entity has violated federal and constitutional rights. I don't know how this turns out, but it is not good for Dez or Xavier or the students.

[NY44]

I don't think Dez is going to win this suit. He may have the "victory" of reaching a settlement. We'll see. But I don't think his character should be called into question for practicing his legal right. It strikes me as pretty high and mighty to call him a whiny little bitch and shrugging off what may very well be legitimate emotional distress. The kid had his reputation turned upside down at 19 or 20 years old. Who are any of you to judge what that might have done to him? And I don't really buy the argument that just because Dez had a right to student privacy, it's his fault that this had been made public. There was no way this story was staying private, as we all know. All silence would do for Dez is cause a stronger assumption that he is guilty. He was really in a no-win situation.

I agree that it was a good move to bring this to the public, but for other reasons. His reputation was turned upside down for a very short period of time (between his expulsion and Deters' comments). His waiving of his the right to student privacy saved him if anything, since it led to Deters' 'examination', which saved his reputation.

He went through the process, and even lost an appeal. This being said, he made out relatively well for someone who has been found guilty through the same process. Money money money. Just give it to him and move on.

[ThePowerOfX]

Can TheXavierPopes twitter account please just stop already? I'm sure the person tweeting on there reads this. You're not helping Xavier's image at all with all your comments. You've graduated. Use your personal twitter account and move on. Stop acting as a Liason for the Student Body because you don't represent them. You represent one individual and that's how it should come across. I know when I went to school there people were incredibly annoyed with them. Reading those tweets from last night is incredibly annoying. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

As someone who was at one time associated with the Popes, I can tell you that I wholeheartedly agree. More of an embarrassment than anything and has been for months.

[sgarcia]

Would anyone happen to know why Dez is suing the University and Father Graham 12 months after the incident instead of maybe 5 or 6 months ago? I don't think Dez will win if this case goes the distance. My guess is that Xavier will settle for an undisclosed amount. On an NBA note, I don't think Dez' draft stock suffers at all. Most of the NBA teams draft based on potential. I don't think teams will be steered away from his incident at Xavier that caused him to get kicked out due to the student conduct code. He had no charges brought against him by the grand jury. He'll be fine and hopefully this mess that his been brought up will be over with soon enough.

[GuyFawkes38]

I agree that it was a good move to bring this to the public, but for other reasons. His reputation was turned upside down for a very short period of time (between his expulsion and Deters' comments). His waiving of his the right to student privacy saved him if anything, since it led to Deters' 'examination', which saved his reputation.

He went through the process, and even lost an appeal. This being said, he made out relatively well for someone who has been found guilty through the same process. Money money money. Just give it to him and move on.

The details that were released by Dez's camp did not help his reputation (which puzzled me why they decided to release them). They clearly show inappropriate action on his part.

Why does he want to prolong this? Again, I believe potential employers would see this as a drawback.

[PMI]

P. I love ya, man, but please see Kahns comments above.

This isn't about "wrongful whatever". This is about a private school's Code of Conduct enforcement. Not even a criminal case.

If this case is about whether XU has the right to enforce it's own Code of Conduct, this thing will get rejected out of hand.

As I mentioned, I don't think Dez will win the suit for that very reason, so I agree. Xavier has every right to expel a student for the most vanilla of misconducts, if they so please. That doesn't mean I don't vehemently disagree with them expelling Dez, but I don't see how it holds up legally from the other end. But I completely disagree that Dez is the one who made this incident a public one, as if it could have otherwise remained private. Silence would have benefitted him in no way. It has nothing to do with his rights or Xavier's rights. In the real world, public relations matter too.


I agree that it was a good move to bring this to the public, but for other reasons. His reputation was turned upside down for a very short period of time (between his expulsion and Deters' comments). His waiving of his the right to student privacy saved him if anything, since it led to Deters' 'examination', which saved his reputation.

He went through the process, and even lost an appeal. This being said, he made out relatively well for someone who has been found guilty through the same process. Money money money. Just give it to him and move on.

Good point re Deters. It looks a lot better to have the known prosecutor advocating on your behalf very publicly than just have your own word. Maybe the whole thing is about money. It certainly wouldn't be a shock. But that happens a lot with students and universities, and just because Dez is a basketball player doesn't give him any less of a right to go through this process, if he so wishes. In my opinion, Xavier could've avoided this by handling the incident the way they usually do, whether people want to acknowledge that or not.

[PMI]

And anyone who thinks this is going to hurt his NBA stock is way off in my opinion. If he's good enough, he will get drafted and this will have virtually no affect on his grade as a prospect. Players with far, far worse incidents in their past are doing just fine in the NBA. This is nowhere near enough of a character red flag to affect it at all.

[Masterofreality]

So then, if the goal of this shyster is to get a financial "settlement" where he gets to collect, then he wins and the University loses....big time. Not only that, it calls into question the ability of the institution to enforce it's own private Code. None of that is good for the school.

I see that Xavier has no other choice but to fight this vigorously...and maybe file a countersuit against this lawyer, if possible. Go for dismissal.

[DC Muskie]

Duke players asked that kid from NC State how his grandmother was doing. Of course she had died soon before the game.

Who can that kid sue for emotional distress?

Nothing is ever going to stop college kids, or fan bases from calling Dez a rapist. The State of Ohio determined there was not enough evidence to come to that conclusion.

How is his reputation harmed now? As NY44 said before, his rep was damaged for about a month of two until Joe Deters basically told everyone he knows how to run university discipline policy.

Nobody in College Park thinks poorly of Dez. There was nothing in the Washington Post calling for the school not to take him.

Brian Banks spent SIX years in PRISON for being falsely accused. He is suing the state for like 200K. Dez Wells did not spend ONE MINUTE in jail, went on to a higher level of basketball competition and says the school caused him emotional distress because Duke fans yelled at him.

Dez is no Brian Banks. He is a whiny little gold digging bitch.

Get paid Dez. Get paid.

[paulxu]

If this baby went to trial, and Dez misses some of Maryland's basketball season/games as a result, I can't imagine his coach would be real happy.

[GoMuskies]

Hypothetical: Let's talk work case scenario (I'm interested to hear from the "good for Dez crowd" especially). What if Dez wins his suit and a judgment is entered against the university for an astronomical amount of money. As as a result, X has to cut academic programs, raise tuition, raise athletic event tickets, and cut athletic programs. What's your take then?


My take would be that if you can't do the time, don't do the (at this point alleged) tort.

[PMI]

So then, if the goal of this shyster is to get a financial "settlement" where he gets to collect, then he wins and the University loses....big time. Not only that, it calls into question the ability of the institution to enforce it's own private Code. None of that is good for the school.

I see that Xavier has no other choice but to fight this vigorously...and maybe file a countersuit against this lawyer, if possible. Go for dismissal.

Well, that's never going to be "the goal," even if it is all they really want. And I tend to doubt that this is ONLY about money, but maybe I'm naive. The suit, as I understand it, alleges that the university DID in fact fail to adhere to its own code. If that's true, he's got a case. That does not call into question the RIGHT a university has to enforce its own private code, but it does call into question whether or not they did, in fact, do that. My guess is that that will be very hard to prove, but I don't know.

Here's a question I still have that not even the most staunch defenders of the university have been able to answer yet. Why in the name of all that is decent and holy is Luther Smith still employed by our university? How in his right mind does Graham allow this? It's mind-boggling, and I still haven't even seen an attempt of a reasonable answer.

[Milhouse]

As someone who was at one time associated with the Popes, I can tell you that I wholeheartedly agree. More of an embarrassment than anything and has been for months.

The thing is they don't post that on their personal account because they don't have 2,000 followers on their personal account. It's a straight attention grab. I'd love to contact the person and tell them to get off it, but I don't have the patience for that.

[paulxu]

Here's a question I still have that not even the most staunch defenders of the university have been able to answer yet. Why in the name of all that is decent and holy is Luther Smith still employed by our university? How in his right mind does Graham allow this? It's mind-boggling, and I still haven't even seen an attempt of a reasonable answer.

Maybe they're worried about an unjust termination lawsuit? (sarcasm font)

[PMI]

Duke players asked that kid from NC State how his grandmother was doing. Of course she had died soon before the game.

Who can that kid sue for emotional distress?

Nothing is ever going to stop college kids, or fan bases from calling Dez a rapist. The State of Ohio determined there was not enough evidence to come to that conclusion.

How is his reputation harmed now? As NY44 said before, his rep was damaged for about a month of two until Joe Deters basically told everyone he knows how to run university discipline policy.

Nobody in College Park thinks poorly of Dez. There was nothing in the Washington Post calling for the school not to take him.

Brian Banks spent SIX years in PRISON for being falsely accused. He is suing the state for like 200K. Dez Wells did not spend ONE MINUTE in jail, went on to a higher level of basketball competition and says the school caused him emotional distress because Duke fans yelled at him.

Dez is no Brian Banks. He is a whiny little gold digging bitch.

Get paid Dez. Get paid.

The comparison makes no sense. Dez is not suing anyone because Duke fans are taunting him. At no point has anyone other than you suggested that his emotional distress has come from opposing teams' fans. It could come from losing a school he loves or a number of other things. Your point does not hold. When you get expelled from school, you can always make the argument that your reputation has been ruined. You don't have to like Wells (and I know you're going to have your opinion regardless of what anyone else thinks) but you are way off the point. You can't just ignore his legal rights because you think he's a whiny little gold digging bitch.

[DC Muskie]

The comparison makes no sense. Dez is not suing anyone because Duke fans are taunting him. At no point has anyone other than you suggested that his emotional distress has come from opposing teams' fans. It could come from losing a school he loves or a number of other things. Your point does not hold. When you get expelled from school, you can always make the argument that your reputation has been ruined. You don't have to like Wells (and I know you're going to have your opinion regardless of what anyone else thinks) but you are way off the point. You can't just ignore his legal rights because you think he's a whiny little gold digging bitch.

From the article you posted:

Wells, according to his attorney, has no interest in returning to Xavier, but has suffered "severe emotional distress" for having been essentially deemed a rapist – and heckled as such while playing road games. This, Wells said, is his best chance to set the record straight with the public and hold Xavier accountable.

He'd have an argument if no other school would take him after being cleared by the court system. He made it public, the legal facts were backed up by the prosecutor and he still didn't miss a day of playing basketball.

He suffered "severe emotional distress" from being heckled. Not only am I making that point, but Dez's lawyer is making it.

[paulxu]

I wonder what his legal rights are?
He admitted to CBS that he had consensual sex. If that violated the honor code (no comment on whether it should/should not) then he had already agreed by enrolling in X that he could be expelled.
I'm just at a loss to know what legal rights he has.
If Graham had listened to Deters, interfered and kept Dez on campus...the school has another whole can of worms to deal with.
It sucks for everybody concerned, and I hate that it happened to Wells. But I don't see any way they could have done anything different.
And this lawsuit is not going to help anybody...except maybe the lawyer.

[XULucho27]

Dez is not suing anyone because Duke fans are taunting him.

He kind of is though. His attorney said as much:


Wells, according to his attorney, has no interest in returning to Xavier, but has suffered "severe emotional distress" for having been essentially deemed a rapist – and heckled as such while playing road games.

These cases usually have an IIED or NIED claim attached to them; it's a catch-all provision. Also, I'm sure they're worried about having proper jurisdiction and tacking on an IIED claim seeking over a certain amount of monetary damages helps ensure it doesn't get booted out of federal court (absent an issue arising from a federal question, of course).

I'll echo the sentiments of others in that at least a part of me wants this case to make it to discovery. Time to see all of the cards on the table so-to-speak.

[ThePowerOfX]

The thing is they don't post that on their personal account because they don't have 2,000 followers on their personal account. It's a straight attention grab. I'd love to contact the person and tell them to get off it, but I don't have the patience for that.

You don't need to tell me why the two of them still use the account, it's pretty obvious. I can also pretty much guarantee they will read this but it won't really do any good. 3 of us asked for the account to be put to an end months ago to no avail.

[PMI]

From the article you posted:

Wells, according to his attorney, has no interest in returning to Xavier, but has suffered "severe emotional distress" for having been essentially deemed a rapist – and heckled as such while playing road games. This, Wells said, is his best chance to set the record straight with the public and hold Xavier accountable.

He'd have an argument if no other school would take him after being cleared by the court system. He made it public, the legal facts were backed up by the prosecutor and he still didn't miss a day of playing basketball.

He suffered "severe emotional distress" from being heckled. Not only am I making that point, but Dez's lawyer is making it.

Fair enough. But the point still remains, he is suing the school, not the Duke fans, so the analogy is still off. That would be like the NC State guy suing the cause of death that led to the loss of his grandmother, not suing the Duke fans who made fun of it. The Duke fans aren't calling Dez a rapist out of the blue to throw him off his game. They're calling him a rapist because he was expelled from Xavier for braking rules in a very public incident, which started with a rape accusation. Whether or not another school would take him after being cleared doesn't make a difference. He was no longer allowed to play basketball at Xavier, or attend Xavier University, because he was expelled after, in his view, the school failed to adhere to its own policy. Given the public nature of the ordeal, his reputation was tarnished (however brief that may have been) and he will always have to live with that stain on his reputation. I'm not saying he didn't make out better than he could have, but that does not matter in this case. It's not like the court is going to say, "we would rule in the favor of Mr. Wells, but he gets to play at Maryland now so his reputation did not take a hit and his emotional distress is unwarranted." That may be what you think should happen, but it's not going to.

[beatuc]

Seriously I hope Dez wins, because if he doesn't, his emotional distress is going to go up a few notches in opposing gyms.

I find two things hilarious about this suit:

1. That he is suing Xavier to "set the record straight" that he is not a rapist. Like people at Duke or Michigan State are going to stop heckling him about it.
2. That the suit comes after he spent a year playing basketball and Xavier got paid with the new Big East contract.

I hope Dez doesn't sue Xavier because I think he is a whiny, gold digging little bitch.

So like I said, I hope he wins. And then realizes he is exactly a whiny gold digging, little bitch because nothing will stop people from heckling him. Hell I might go to Maryland games and tell him as such.

Xavier helps him get eligible immediately, and Dez is suing for emotional distress. Who does he think he is Brian Banks?

Why do you think Xavier helped him get immediate eligibility? Because they knowed they screwed up to begin with. I know the story from the Deter's and the Hamilton County side, and I can say that if Dez got expelled for those actions so would most of us that attended college. The female also made false claims in the case which is even worse that Xavier believed her over Dez.

[DC Muskie]

I've never said he was suing Duke fans. Never. I said he was suing Xavier because of Duke fans making fun of him. That is pathetic. The argument of severe emotional distress because opposing fans ridicule you so you sue the school that expels you is absolutely comical. Nothing is going to stop opposing fans from ridiculing Dez.

I would argue Dez's reputation wasn't ruined at all. You know how I would make that argument? Because numerous schools were on him immediately. If Dez wasn't such a public figure, and this had happened to him, I could easily see his emotional distress of not continuing his education because other schools wouldn't admit him. That would suck and I could see taking a course of action.

But that didn't happen with Dez. He got in to another school immediately. His distress is what other fans call him, and what he perceives that his reputation was ruined. That's not Xavier's fault. Xavier isn't calling him a rapist, in fact they aren't calling him anything other than a student who was expelled.

Do you see the utter ridiculousness of the argument that Xavier should be hold accountable for what Duke fans say? Did Rasheed Wallace sue his high school in Philly when Duke fans chanted "Rasheed...Can't Read?" I'm pretty sure Rasheed Wallace can in fact read, but his school has a reputation of allowing people to graduate with poor academic standards.

If Dez wins, and he still gets called a rapist, he is going to stop and tell everyone, "No actually I won a lawsuit that says it wasn't true."

Please. This is about getting paid, so get paid Dez. I hope every dollar he gets lessens the severe emotional distress opposing fans will continue to try and bestow on him.

[DC Muskie]

Why do you think Xavier helped him get immediate eligibility? Because they knowed they screwed up to begin with. I know the story from the Deter's and the Hamilton County side, and I can say that if Dez got expelled for those actions so would most of us that attended college. The female also made false claims in the case which is even worse that Xavier believed her over Dez.

Xavier "knowed?" Sorry, I don't mean to pick on the word, but I understand your point.

I don't know why exactly Dez got expelled. No one knows what went on in the decision process to come to that conclusion. Not one single person other than the folks in that room, and that is the only fact I care about.

[PMI]

Why do you think Xavier helped him get immediate eligibility? Because they knowed they screwed up to begin with. I know the story from the Deter's and the Hamilton County side, and I can say that if Dez got expelled for those actions so would most of us that attended college. The female also made false claims in the case which is even worse that Xavier believed her over Dez.

This rumor needs to stop. Xavier did not try to help get him eligible immediately for Maryland. That did not happen, and I know this for a fact. Now they didn't actively campaign against it, but they sure as hell didn't go to bat for him like many here are suggesting. This comes from somebody at Maryland who you all know of.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know why exactly Dez got expelled. No one knows what went on in the decision process to come to that conclusion. Not one single person other than the folks in that room, and that is the only fact I care about.

That will make discovery interesting, no?

[DC Muskie]

That will make discovery interesting, no?

No doubt. Interesting yes. Good? Not at all. For anybody.

[Masterofreality]

I swear that I'm just going to stop reading all off-season crap and just watch games.

This ancillary recruiting, enforcement, legal, social-media pile of dung is making me insane.

[XU 87]

Well, that's never going to be "the goal," even if it is all they really want. And I tend to doubt that this is ONLY about money, but maybe I'm naive.

It's about money. If it's about clearing his name, he would have sued the girl for falsely accusing him. But she doesn't have any money.

[PMI]

I've never said he was suing Duke fans. Never. I said he was suing Xavier because of Duke fans making fun of him. That is pathetic. The argument of severe emotional distress because opposing fans ridicule you so you sue the school that expels you is absolutely comical. Nothing is going to stop opposing fans from ridiculing Dez.

I would argue Dez's reputation wasn't ruined at all. You know how I would make that argument? Because numerous schools were on him immediately. If Dez wasn't such a public figure, and this had happened to him, I could easily see his emotional distress of not continuing his education because other schools wouldn't admit him. That would suck and I could see taking a course of action.

But that didn't happen with Dez. He got in to another school immediately. His distress is what other fans call him, and what he perceives that his reputation was ruined. That's not Xavier's fault. Xavier isn't calling him a rapist, in fact they aren't calling him anything other than a student who was expelled.

Do you see the utter ridiculousness of the argument that Xavier should be hold accountable for what Duke fans say? Did Rasheed Wallace sue his high school in Philly when Duke fans chanted "Rasheed...Can't Read?" I'm pretty sure Rasheed Wallace can in fact read, but his school has a reputation of allowing people to graduate with poor academic standards.

If Dez wins, and he still gets called a rapist, he is going to stop and tell everyone, "No actually I won a lawsuit that says it wasn't true."

Please. This is about getting paid, so get paid Dez. I hope every dollar he gets lessens the severe emotional distress opposing fans will continue to try and bestow on him.

I know you didn't. Sorry if that's the way it came out. What I was referring to was your comment about who the NC State kid can sue for emotional distress. My point is that those situations cannot be compared.

You can argue that Dez's reputation was not destroyed. I would not agree with that but it is all in the eye of the beholder. I think it's fair to say that there are a number of people who look at Dez differently, and I certainly think it's fair to say that it's possible that he is, in fact, experiencing real emotional distress. It could be bullshit, but you can't say it couldn't be true too.

As for Xavier being at fault, if it can be proven that Xavier did not adhere to its own policy, and expelled Wells for no legitimate reason, all the while having the whole public charade going on where the word "rape" is being tossed around, than Xavier could be seen as responsible for his emotional distress. You again try to use a far-fetched example that doesn't compare with Rasheed Wallace. What this comes down to is whether or not Xavier wronged Wells which led to his emotional distress. I think he'll have a tough time proving that they did, but it's important to make the distinction and look at the facts of the suit.

[NY44]

Why do you think Xavier helped him get immediate eligibility? Because they knowed they screwed up to begin with. I know the story from the Deter's and the Hamilton County side, and I can say that if Dez got expelled for those actions so would most of us that attended college. The female also made false claims in the case which is even worse that Xavier believed her over Dez.

Wrong. You seem to believe that there is one singular Xavier that makes all the decisions. The people who helped get him eligibility are not the same people who had him expelled. People within Xavier (self righteous review board members) tied the hands of Xavier administrators (Athletic department and possibly Graham). It's a dysfunctional mess which is set up to make sure that people can't take advantage of the system because they are VIPs. This is just one very extreme case that has shown a flaw in an otherwise fair and well-intended system, a flaw that Xavier will pay for, either in defense expenses or a settlement. I say this because I really don't see anyway that Wells wins the case.

[PMI]

It's about money. If it's about clearing his name, he would have sued the girl for falsely accusing him. But she doesn't have any money.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't really matter at all, and it's still just speculation.

[XU 87]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't really matter at all, and it's still just speculation.

I'm not speculating that he didn't sue the girl. That's a fact. If he wanted to clear his name, as he claims, he should have sued her. But he didn't.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I've never said he was suing Duke fans. Never. I said he was suing Xavier because of Duke fans making fun of him. That is pathetic. The argument of severe emotional distress because opposing fans ridicule you so you sue the school that expels you is absolutely comical. Nothing is going to stop opposing fans from ridiculing Dez.

I would argue Dez's reputation wasn't ruined at all. You know how I would make that argument? Because numerous schools were on him immediately. If Dez wasn't such a public figure, and this had happened to him, I could easily see his emotional distress of not continuing his education because other schools wouldn't admit him. That would suck and I could see taking a course of action.

But that didn't happen with Dez. He got in to another school immediately. His distress is what other fans call him, and what he perceives that his reputation was ruined. That's not Xavier's fault. Xavier isn't calling him a rapist, in fact they aren't calling him anything other than a student who was expelled.

Do you see the utter ridiculousness of the argument that Xavier should be hold accountable for what Duke fans say? Did Rasheed Wallace sue his high school in Philly when Duke fans chanted "Rasheed...Can't Read?" I'm pretty sure Rasheed Wallace can in fact read, but his school has a reputation of allowing people to graduate with poor academic standards.

If Dez wins, and he still gets called a rapist, he is going to stop and tell everyone, "No actually I won a lawsuit that says it wasn't true."

Please. This is about getting paid, so get paid Dez. I hope every dollar he gets lessens the severe emotional distress opposing fans will continue to try and bestow on him.

http://img.pandawhale.com/29490-Picard-applause-clapping-gif-s5nz.gif

[PMI]

I'm not speculating that he didn't sue the girl. That's a fact. If he wanted to clear his name, as he claims, he should have sued her. But he didn't.

No, you're speculating that he's only suing because of the money, which disregards the notion that he may actually be seeking justice for his emotional distress. And who knows, maybe he is suing/will sue the girl.

[LA Muskie]

Would anyone happen to know why Dez is suing the University and Father Graham 12 months after the incident instead of maybe 5 or 6 months ago? I don't think Dez will win if this case goes the distance. My guess is that Xavier will settle for an undisclosed amount. On an NBA note, I don't think Dez' draft stock suffers at all. Most of the NBA teams draft based on potential. I don't think teams will be steered away from his incident at Xavier that caused him to get kicked out due to the student conduct code. He had no charges brought against him by the grand jury. He'll be fine and hopefully this mess that his been brought up will be over with soon enough.

My guess is that negotiations have been going on behind the scenes for quite a while, have not gone to Dez lawyer's liking, and this intended to up the ante.

[DC Muskie]

I know you didn't. Sorry if that's the way it came out. What I was referring to was your comment about who the NC State kid can sue for emotional distress. My point is that those situations cannot be compared.

You can argue that Dez's reputation was not destroyed. I would not agree with that but it is all in the eye of the beholder. I think it's fair to say that there are a number of people who look at Dez differently, and I certainly think it's fair to say that it's possible that he is, in fact, experiencing real emotional distress. It could be bullshit, but you can't say it couldn't be true too.

As for Xavier being at fault, if it can be proven that Xavier did not adhere to its own policy, and expelled Wells for no legitimate reason, all the while having the whole public charade going on where the word "rape" is being tossed around, than Xavier could be seen as responsible for his emotional distress. You again try to use a far-fetched example that doesn't compare with Rasheed Wallace. What this comes down to is whether or not Xavier wronged Wells which led to his emotional distress. I think he'll have a tough time proving that they did, but it's important to make the distinction and look at the facts of the suit.

Yeah I sorta butchered the NC State kid analogy.

The only group tossing the word "rape" around was Deters and Dez's camp. Xavier wasn't at all.

Who are these people who look at Dez differently, I mean besides myself? You and I agree this will have zero impact on his ability to get a job in the NBA. Who are these other people? Opposing fans? They already don't like Dez because he puts on a Maryland uniform.

I can understand the negative emotions of being expelled, especially if I thought I was wronged. What I don't understand is if the expulsion hasn't hindered my ability to secure an education and continuing to make a living, why would I give a shit about a certain, small amount of people think of me? I guess I could still be upset and need to sue someone, but then I would would become a whiny little gold digging bitch. And if I'm fine with that, then go for it right?

[GoMuskies]

Why does it matter if it's all about money? Isn't that generally how lawsuits work? Sure, there is equitable relief here and there, but at the end of the day if you go to trial you're generally asking for money. Not sure why that's necessarily bad.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Here's a copy of the Complaint. Its an interesting read.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/161926808/Wells-v-Xavier-Graham-File-Stamped-Summons-and-Complaint-8-20-13

[DC Muskie]

Why does it matter if it's all about money? Isn't that generally how lawsuits work? Sure, there is equitable relief here and there, but at the end of the day if you go to trial you're generally asking for money. Not sure why that's necessarily bad.

I'm all about getting paid, especially if I was wronged and it prevented me from earning a living.

This case doesn't have any of that. It's about Xavier paying Dez for the things fans of teams from the ACC say to him.

That's bullshit.

[danaandvictory]

Here's a copy of the Complaint. Its an interesting read.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/161926808/Wells-v-Xavier-Graham-File-Stamped-Summons-and-Complaint-8-20-13

Would be interested to know your thoughts on this Nigel, but my initial thoughts would be that the defamation/libel is complete BS and the arbitration stuff makes no sense to me, but they might have a foothold on the breach of contract issue to get into discovery.

[GoMuskies]

The complaint mentions "hanging out" and playing "truth or dare". Seeing these things in filed court documents is amusing.

[PMI]

Yeah I sorta butchered the NC State kid analogy.

The only group tossing the word "rape" around was Deters and Dez's camp. Xavier wasn't at all.

Who are these people who look at Dez differently, I mean besides myself? You and I agree this will have zero impact on his ability to get a job in the NBA. Who are these other people? Opposing fans? They already don't like Dez because he puts on a Maryland uniform.

I can understand the negative emotions of being expelled, especially if I thought I was wronged. What I don't understand is if the expulsion hasn't hindered my ability to secure an education and continuing to make a living, why would I give a shit about a certain, small amount of people think of me? I guess I could still be upset and need to sue someone, but then I would would become a whiny little gold digging bitch. And if I'm fine with that, then go for it right?

I get what you're saying. Maybe he's just a very sensitive kid, or isn't good at dealing with the shot to his ego, really, truly wanted to graduate from and play at Xavier or whatever. I really don't know. My intention has never been to figure out why. I'm just saying that it's within his rights to try, and I don't fault him for it. I know I haven't looked at him differently after he was expelled. But who knows. Maybe girls treat him differently now. Maybe it's changed his personality from outgoing to more reclusive. I have no idea.


Why does it matter if it's all about money? Isn't that generally how lawsuits work? Sure, there is equitable relief here and there, but at the end of the day if you go to trial you're generally asking for money. Not sure why that's necessarily bad.

Exactly. He is doing what lots of people do every day. If that makes him a whiny little gold digging bitch than this country is full of those, and our legal system allows for them to do their thing.

[PMI]

One other thing, for those who are saying that it was only Deters and Dez who used the word "rape," and since the school didn't they brought it on themselves, that is total bullshit. The rumors had already taken on a life of their own before either side said anything. Everyone who had followed it had heard Dez got expelled after a girl accused him of rape. It was not some big secret of why he was kicked out just because he hadn't yet said "I was accused of rape." The "damage" was already done, the accusations were already out there, and his name, at the time, was certainly being dragged through the mud. That's why this bullshit about "he had his right to privacy but failed to practice it" holds no weight. His options were to proclaim his innocence publicly, or stay quiet and let the world continue to think he is a rapist. Xavier saying nothing other than he broke the rules didn't exactly change any of that.

[GoMuskies]

According to the complaint, the letter to Wells regarding expulsion found him responsible for "rape". I thought that was surprising, as I thought Xavier had used "sexual assault" or "sexual misconduct" or something like that all along. Bad enough, sure, but if Xavier actually found him responsible for rape I think that's a whole different ballgame.

A number of the pages in the complaint do not show up for me. I wish I had the whole thing, because it is definitely interesting.

[Muskie]

is the statute of limitations on this sorta thing 1 year in Ohio?

I've also yet to see any comments on the hypothetical I posed a few pages back.

[X-band '01]

It's one thing if Dez were applying for another job and they said no because of the whole Xavier mess. I'd have to think that's not the case here.

I don't remember any on-court incidents with him last year at Maryland, so I suppose he could at least claim that he's been on his best behavior at least as far as Maryland is concerned. If he continues to keep his nose clean in College Park, hopefully his character won't dictate his NBA stock as much as his play on the court. Maryland is already going to be a circus this year if this is indeed their final ACC season to begin with.

[West is Best]

Looks like somebody found a way to make money off their basketball career... NCAA can't tolerate this

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the didn't she ask him to use a condom, he said he would, he didn't, she was pretty drunk, and he left. I am pretty sure there are states where that is actually considered rape, however, Ohio is not one of them.

[LadyMuskie]

This is like a never-ending nightmare!

[ken redd]

If he was really just interested in clearing his name why wouldn't he sue his accuser?

[Kahns Krazy]

You can argue that Dez's reputation was not destroyed. I would not agree with that but it is all in the eye of the beholder. I think it's fair to say that there are a number of people who look at Dez differently, and I certainly think it's fair to say that it's possible that he is, in fact, experiencing real emotional distress. It could be bullshit, but you can't say it couldn't be true too..

My opinion of Dez was that he was a young man that got caught up in a bad situation, and some things outside his control made the punishment way disproportionate to the original mistake. My opinion of Dez would have been the highest if he had said "I made a mistake. The administration and I differ on the magnititude of the mistake, but I accept their decision, which is what I said I would do when I signed the code of conduct. I look forward to putting this behind me." and moved on to Maryland to play good basketball.

That's how the real world works sometimes. My company has let go of some very talented people in the last couple years because of personal conflicts. That's human nature, and sometimes it sucks, but it's not a crime or something you sue over. The sooner you learn that lesson, the better off you will be.

Since Dez has now chosen to bring this issue back up, my opinion of him is far lower than it has ever been. I agree with whoever said that he has been getting bad advice, but the reputation is Dez's, not his advisors. It make me sad. It makes me sad for Dez, sad for Xavier and sad for those that think anything good can come out of a lawsuit.






One other thing, for those who are saying that it was only Deters and Dez who used the word "rape," and since the school didn't they brought it on themselves, that is total bullshit. The rumors had already taken on a life of their own before either side said anything. Everyone who had followed it had heard Dez got expelled after a girl accused him of rape. .

I consider myself fairly active in the world of following things Xavier basketball related. I honestly had not heard any of the allegations until Dez's camp made them public. In fact, I initially heard it was that he beat a guy up.

Regardless, it does matter who made it public first if you are claiming emotional distress at the hands of someone else.

[bobbiemcgee]

If he was really just interested in clearing his name why wouldn't he sue his accuser?

I'm sure we'll hear plenty from her if it goes to Court. Also, she was/is an RA. Do you think she has any money?

[Muskie]

Banners on the Parkway article indicates the accuser recanted? I don't remember that at all?

[ken redd]

I'm sure we'll hear plenty from her if it goes to Court. Also, she was/is an RA. Do you think she has any money?

That's my point this is about the $$$$ not clearing his name. It will be a distraction and he could lose $$$$ if he doesn't play well this year.

[Muskie1000]

This is like a never-ending nightmare!

Yes I was so hoping we could revisit this topic and have another 30 page discussion on what constitutes rape and how it does or doesn't apply to Dez. Its not like this topic was discussed this thoroughly before. :facepalm:

[Masterofreality]

Banners on the Parkway article indicates the accuser recanted? I don't remember that at all?

I sure never heard a recanting.

[GoMuskies]

Banners on the Parkway article indicates the accuser recanted? I don't remember that at all?

The complaint says that as well.

[PMI]

My opinion of Dez was that he was a young man that got caught up in a bad situation, and some things outside his control made the punishment way disproportionate to the original mistake. My opinion of Dez would have been the highest if he had said "I made a mistake. The administration and I differ on the magnititude of the mistake, but I accept their decision, which is what I said I would do when I signed the code of conduct. I look forward to putting this behind me." and moved on to Maryland to play good basketball.

That's how the real world works sometimes. My company has let go of some very talented people in the last couple years because of personal conflicts. That's human nature, and sometimes it sucks, but it's not a crime or something you sue over. The sooner you learn that lesson, the better off you will be.

Since Dez has now chosen to bring this issue back up, my opinion of him is far lower than it has ever been. I agree with whoever said that he has been getting bad advice, but the reputation is Dez's, not his advisors. It make me sad. It makes me sad for Dez, sad for Xavier and sad for those that think anything good can come out of a lawsuit.







I consider myself fairly active in the world of following things Xavier basketball related. I honestly had not heard any of the allegations until Dez's camp made them public. In fact, I initially heard it was that he beat a guy up.

Regardless, it does matter who made it public first if you are claiming emotional distress at the hands of someone else.

I generally agree with your opinion on the situation as it originated. I also agree that the whole thing is sad and this is not fun for anyone.

As for the rape allegations, I had heard about them weeks before anything came out. I had never heard of any other rumor other than a sexual incident, which then became rape. I guess that's the way rumors work, we all hear different things. But in any case, as soon as he was expelled, the rumors of the incident being sexual in nature had already surfaced. That's why I don't agree that it's in Dez's best interest to do anything other than tell the truth as he saw it. According to the suit, Xavier did in fact find him guilty of rape. So even if they didn't publicly use those words, he's alleging that they expelled him for raping a girl, which is absolutely something that can destroy a reputation. Deters went out on his own and gave his opinion on the matter as far as I can remember. I don't recall Dez having anything to do with that. So it was out there. If Xavier expelled him because they found him guilty of rape, and the incident took place the way he says it did, they are in the wrong.

[gladdenguy]

Please win millions so the piss poor leadership of this school can at least be shaken up.
Luther Smith
Dave Johnson
Michael Graham....GTFO

TEAM DEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DC Muskie]

Dez seems like in incredibly sensitive kid. I just read where he cried the day he was declared eligible.

Dez says Xavier ruined his reputation. Northwestern fans shouting "No means No" is apparently Xavier's fault for not explaining to Northwestern fans that the legal system in Ohio found no evidence.

Xavier to my knowledge has ever waged a campaign informing all opposing fans that Dez is a rapist.

I'm sure if he has a shitty season due to the lawsuit, that will be Xavier's fault as well.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I just don't think it is in Dez's best interest (or Xavier's) to bring this matter up again after so many months. Most people have already put this behind them. If he wanted to sue, he should have done so when he was expelled. IMO, he should let this matter quietly fade away.

[PMI]

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but for one of you who are, is it possible that Dez filed a suit awhile ago (like months ago) and that it's just now coming out? Could the ball have been rolling for awhile on this one?

[danaandvictory]

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but for one of you who are, is it possible that Dez filed a suit awhile ago (like months ago) and that it's just now coming out? Could the ball have been rolling for awhile on this one?

It's possible they sent XU a draft of the complaint along with a demand some time ago. Most likely X refused whatever settlement demand they made so they filed suit.

[GoMuskies]

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but for one of you who are, is it possible that Dez filed a suit awhile ago (like months ago) and that it's just now coming out? Could the ball have been rolling for awhile on this one?

If you look at the complaint, it's dated yesterday. I agree with D&V that they probably sent Xavier a copy of the complaint with a demand before filing suit. Pretty standard settlement negotiation tactic.

[DC Muskie]

I wonder how Dez will react when opposing teams beat reporters ask him questions about the lawsuit during the season and God forbid he has a bad game, see if it relates to how the crowd treated him while at the foul line.

Because Dez can no longer claim it doesn't bother him. It obviously does.

The more I think about this suit, the more pathetic I think it is. He certainly has the right to go for it, but it is no less pathetic. I'm going to seriously consider the thought of cheering against this kid next season.

[PMI]

I wonder how Dez will react when opposing teams beat reporters ask him questions about the lawsuit during the season and God forbid he has a bad game, see if it relates to how the crowd treated him while at the foul line.

Because Dez can no longer claim it doesn't bother him. It obviously does.

The more I think about this suit, the more pathetic I think it is. He certainly has the right to go for it, but it is no less pathetic. I'm going to seriously consider the thought of cheering against this kid next season.

I agree with the sentiment that this could become a major distraction for Wells and the team. I mean I guess there's always the chance that it somehow brings them closer together with the "us against the world" mentality, but I don't foresee this doing anything to help him this year, from a focus standpoint. As someone who (distant) second favorite team is Maryland, I'm not thrilled about that. But on the other hand, he played pretty well last year with similar distractions, and if he's the baller I believe he is, he'll be fine.

[Milhouse]

I wonder how Dez will react when opposing teams beat reporters ask him questions about the lawsuit during the season and God forbid he has a bad game, see if it relates to how the crowd treated him while at the foul line.

Because Dez can no longer claim it doesn't bother him. It obviously does.

The more I think about this suit, the more pathetic I think it is. He certainly has the right to go for it, but it is no less pathetic. I'm going to seriously consider the thought of cheering against this kid next season.

kind of agree with this. Was in his camp before/cheering for him but after bringing it up again when he's doing well for himself I feel as though I can't cheer for him to do well anymore.

[Muskie]

Please win millions so the piss poor leadership of this school can at least be shaken up.
Luther Smith
Dave Johnson
Michael Graham....GTFO

TEAM DEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So hypothetically if Dez wins a huge judgment against the university and X is forced to raise tuition, ticket prices, eliminate departments (education) or athletics it is all good in your mind?

[XULucho27]

Read the entire complaint. Now I fully want this to get to discovery, mostly to satiate my own curiosity. Overall, I don't see Dez prevailing...but you never know with a jury.

[PMI]

Read the entire complaint. Now I fully want this to get to discovery, mostly to satiate my own curiosity. Overall, I don't see Dez prevailing...but you never know with a jury.

Expect a phone call from me in the near future, you know, to satiate my own curiosity. This is very interesting indeed.

[DC Muskie]

I agree with the sentiment that this could become a major distraction for Wells and the team. I mean I guess there's always the chance that it somehow brings them closer together with the "us against the world" mentality, but I don't foresee this doing anything to help him this year, from a focus standpoint. As someone who (distant) second favorite team is Maryland, I'm not thrilled about that. But on the other hand, he played pretty well last year with similar distractions, and if he's the baller I believe he is, he'll be fine.

The chance that this could screw up Maryland's season concerns me greatly.

Personally I think the fact he is claiming severe emotional distress while playing really well is rubbish. But that's just me.

[GoMuskies]

I think those of us who watched Xavier play 31 times last year are the ones who suffered severe emotional distress. Maybe WE should have been the ones to sue!

[Milhouse]

I think those of us who watched Xavier play 31 times last year are the ones who suffered severe emotional distress. Maybe WE should have been the ones to sue!

And those that went to 16 home games...:(

[PMI]

There's still one thing that I just cannot understand for the life of me no matter how hard I try. Maybe one of you staunch Xavier/Graham defenders who see no fault on their side can help me out. Why in the fuck is Luther Smith still employed by our university? I want one good reason. How has Fr. Graham allowed him to continue on? Any justification for this would be appreciated.

[xudash]

I haven't read through this entire mess, and I won't be doing that now, but I'm wondering if it was true that Xavier was in some way "supportive" or "facilitating" in Dez becoming immediately available to Maryland last year.

I also recall Dez speaking well of Xavier of Xavier after he landed at Maryland.

All of this is a complex, messy mess, but this action and the timing of it seem strange to me.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think the timing is odd at all. He was probably bumping up against the statute of limitations.

[PMI]

I haven't read through this entire mess, and I won't be doing that now, but I'm wondering if it was true that Xavier was in some way "supportive" or "facilitating" in Dez becoming immediately available to Maryland last year.

I also recall Dez speaking well of Xavier of Xavier after he landed at Maryland.

All of this is a complex, messy mess, but this action and the timing of it seem strange to me.

The answer is unequivocally no. Xavier in no way helped facilitate anything in regards to Dez's eligibility. All they did was not actively campaign against it.

[danaandvictory]

The answer is unequivocally no. Xavier in no way helped facilitate anything in regards to Dez's eligibility. All they did was not actively campaign against it.

Which is probably the best they could do under the circumstances. Any admission of wrongdoing most certainly would have shown up in the inevitable litigation.

[paulxu]

I find it nuts that the University would have sent him a letter about his expulsion, that is quoted as saying in the complaint he had been "found... responsible for rape." That's just crazy given all the circumstances of he said/she said and no physical evidence. Why not just say you are being expelled for violating alcohol or sex, things he admitted?

The young lady can't be too happy given the language in the complaint. Dez is saying she never said "no." The only way to get that in a court is to have her back to testify.

What a mess. If he was going to get a lawyer, why get one that is 0 fer with the Vilma and Singh.

[XULucho27]

I find it nuts that the University would have sent him a letter about his expulsion, that is quoted as saying in the complaint he had been "found... responsible for rape." That's just crazy given all the circumstances of he said/she said and no physical evidence. Why not just say you are being expelled for violating alcohol or sex, things he admitted?

It's required by federal law, according to the student handbook:


3.6.3. Confidentiality and Disclosures
3.6.3.2. Required Disclosures
Under Federal law, Xavier must provide written notice to the Complainant or other victim and the Respondent of the final results of any Student Conduct Process brought against a Respondent for alleged violations of the Standards of Student Conduct that, if proven, would constitute a crime of violence (including but not limited to sexual assault or rape) or non-forcible sex offense(including but not limited to sex discrimination and sexual harassment). This is required regardless of whether or not the Respondent is found responsible for the alleged violation, and may only include the final results of the Student Conduct Process with respect to that violation.

I find it interesting that a lot of the allegations brought forward in the complaint state that the process was unfair because of the evidence that was presented/excluded. However, the handbook does clearly state that the UCB is not bound by the rules of evidence of a court of law. I don't think that claim brought forward by Dez's attorney will have much merit in this lawsuit.

[GoMuskies]

Still makes no sense. They could have said sexual assault. Why rape?

[XULucho27]

No clue. My guess is once they investigate a specific allegation they make a finding on that allegation alone and don't make findings on lesser-included (to steal a crim-law term) allegations. Then again I'm not privy to the inner workings of the Board, only go by what information is out there.

[GoMuskies]

I personally think Xavier using the word "rape" greatly bolsters Wells' case. It's one thing to accuse someone of sexual assault or sexual misconduct. It's something completely different to call someone a rapist. Particularly under these facts (assuming we have the right facts, of course).

[Charlesbt4]

If the contents of the complaint are true or even mostly true, I'm not sure how any reasonable person can support Xavier's actions on this matter. With that said, that does not necessarily mean that Wells has a meritorious lawsuit. It does, however, mean that my ethical compass is more concerned with what Xavier did and did not do than with what Wells did and did not do.

[Muskie]

I read one sided complaints every day. We will see how this plays out.

[XULucho27]

I completely agree. Rape is a hell of an allegation.

I think the one thing X does have going for it is that the contents of that letter were never made public, to our knowledge. Can't really say you're being defamed if you're called a rapist, you're a public figure, and there is no publishing of that accusation to anyone other than yourself and the person accusing you. You need a higher standard for a public figure, don't you?

[Kahns Krazy]

I agree.

Assuming that the whole issue is that she consented with a condom, and he went in there without one, I think you have something more like an assault than rape.

[Charlesbt4]

Additionally, to those individuals that are alleging that Wells is simply trying to obtain a large financial payout. If you were subject to the same circumstances, you would also being filing a lawsuit against Xavier. I love my university as much as the next person, but they f*cked up.

[TapsPlunkett]

This will be settled in weeks. You think Graham wants Mack and Bobinski sitting for depositions about this?

[PMI]

It's required by federal law, according to the student handbook:



I find it interesting that a lot of the allegations brought forward in the complaint state that the process was unfair because of the evidence that was presented/excluded. However, the handbook does clearly state that the UCB is not bound by the rules of evidence of a court of law. I don't think that claim brought forward by Dez's attorney will have much merit in this lawsuit.

That's true, but that would be completely separate from the claim that Xavier did not act according to its own policy on these matters, correct? I think it's been clear the whole time that just because you didn't break the law does not mean you didn't break the school's code of conduct and all, but isn't the school still legally responsible for following its own policy verbatim before just expelling a kid?


Which is probably the best they could do under the circumstances. Any admission of wrongdoing most certainly would have shown up in the inevitable litigation.

I agree completely. I just wish people would stop suggesting that Xavier helped. It's ludicrous to think they did or would.


If the contents of the complaint are true or even mostly true, I'm not sure how any reasonable person can support Xavier's actions on this matter. With that said, that does not necessarily mean that Wells has a meritorious lawsuit. It does, however, mean that my ethical compass is more concerned with what Xavier did and did not do than with what Wells did and did not do.

I agree. It's pretty much how I've felt the entire time.

And I'm still waiting on even a long shot theory on why that lowlife Luther Smith is still working at Xavier. Still hearing crickets. What do those who will defend Graham at most any cost have to say about that?

[XU 87]

I just read the lawsuit. And it sounds like the girl testified that Dez raped her. Dez said he didn't. They were both allowed to present evidence. And the hearing panel, without lawyers, judges or rules of evidence, believed her over him. It was a bad decision. But a bad decision in an expulsion hearing shouldn't give rise to a lawsuit. It's really that simple.

[XU 87]

If the contents of the complaint are true or even mostly true, I'm not sure how any reasonable person can support Xavier's actions on this matter. With that said, that does not necessarily mean that Wells has a meritorious lawsuit. It does, however, mean that my ethical compass is more concerned with what Xavier did and did not do than with what Wells did and did not do.

As noted above, this is a one sided complaint.

And I suspect that Xavier could just not stop the disciplinary process because Joe Deters thought he was innocent. I think it was reported that the feds were notified of the Dez rape allegations. And I'm going to give an educated guess that the feds said, "Xavier, here's how you're going to handle this." What was Xavier supposed to do? Tell the feds, "No, we're going to drop all proceedings becasue the county prosecutor, who plans to present this to the grand jury, thinks there's problems with the case."?

Everybody thinks Xavier handled this very poorly. But I think their hands were tied to a very large extent. Graham has issued a statement that the feds prohibited him from stepping in on this matter. I tend to believe him. But this lawsuit essentially says he should have stepped in and stopped the process regardless of what the feds and the law say.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure you can use the "our hands were tied" defense to wronging someone when you tied your hands yourself.

[PMI]

I just read the lawsuit. And it sounds like the girl testified that Dez raped her. Dez said he didn't. They were both allowed to present evidence. And the hearing panel, without lawyers, judges or rules of evidence, believed her over him. It was a bad decision. But a bad decision in an expulsion hearing shouldn't give rise to a lawsuit. It's really that simple.

Maybe it would be "really that simple" if Dez Wells were a regular student. But he was the best basketball player at Xavier University, and a public figure of sorts. Thus, it became news, and when he got labeled a rapist, many, many people heard about it. If you can't even see the potential for defamation of character, emotional distress, or something there, I think you're way off.

[PMI]

As noted above, this is a one sided complaint.

And I suspect that Xavier could just not stop the disciplinary process because Joe Deters thought he was innocent. I think it was reported that the feds were notified of the Dez rape allegations. And I'm going to give an educated guess that the feds said, "Xavier, here's how you're going to handle this." What was Xavier supposed to do? Tell the feds, "No, we're going to drop all proceedings becasue the county prosecutor, who plans to present this to the grand jury, thinks there's problems with the case."?

Everybody thinks Xavier handled this very poorly. But I think their hands were tied to a very large extent. Graham has issued a statement that the feds prohibited him from stepping in on this matter. I tend to believe him. But this lawsuit essentially says he should have stepped in and stopped the process regardless of what the feds and the law say.

This may be right. But why are Xavier's hands tied by the federal government? Because they mishandled a much more serious actual rape case a year or so prior. And by mishandled, I mean they unethically and sleazily tried to cut a deal to get it swept under the rug. And this was all done by a piece of shit who is still on salary at the university.

Anyone?

[XU 87]

I'm not sure you can use the "our hands were tied" defense to wronging someone when you tied your hands yourself.

To this day, I still don't think Xavier did anything wrong in handling the first rape charges. (The accused in that case was found not guilty so maybe he should sue Xavier as well). But the two girls made the complaint after the accused was found not guilty. Just because a complaint was made, and the feds investigate, doesn't then equate to wrongdoing.

[XU 87]

Maybe it would be "really that simple" if Dez Wells were a regular student. But he was the best basketball player at Xavier University, and a public figure of sorts. Thus, it became news, and when he got labeled a rapist, many, many people heard about it. If you can't even see the potential for defamation of character, emotional distress, or something there, I think you're way off.

So if a university panel made up of administrators, students and teachers, makes a determination that a student thinks is wrong, the university itself can be sued for libel and slander? Maybe Dez should sue all the members of the panel who voted against him. And Xavier didn't issue a statement saying Dez was a rapist. They issued a statement saying Dez had been expelled after he was found to have violated school policies. That's a true statement.

[PMI]

To this day, I still don't think Xavier did anything wrong in handling the first rape charges. (The accused in that case was found not guilty so maybe he should sue Xavier as well). But the two girls made the complaint after the accused was found not guilty. Just because a complaint was made, and the feds investigate, doesn't then equate to wrongdoing.

First of all, I think it goes without saying that any rape accusation should be handled by the real authorities, not the school. But that aside, regardless of how innocent you believe Shawn Marron was (which I completely disagree with and would love to hear your argument) it does not excuse how Luther Smith handled the aftermath. How can you justify him trying to prevent the story getting out at that cost?

[XU 87]

I'm not sure you can use the "our hands were tied" defense to wronging someone when you tied your hands yourself.

It doesn't matter why their hands were tied. If the feds were ordering them on how to handle the Dez situation, there was little if anything Xavier could do. People are acting like X had some discretion on how to handle this. At least when it got to the hearing level, I don't they had any discretion.

[danaandvictory]

Maybe it would be "really that simple" if Dez Wells were a regular student. But he was the best basketball player at Xavier University, and a public figure of sorts. Thus, it became news, and when he got labeled a rapist, many, many people heard about it. If you can't even see the potential for defamation of character, emotional distress, or something there, I think you're way off.

Whether the underlying decision was suspect it is absolutely true that Dez was found responsible for rape by the conduct board and that said offense is punishable by expulsion. Those statements are true and they cannot be defamatory.

Unless they've got some other information about Xavier officials leaking information about the accusations to the press or other third parties, then I don't see where the university has liability. If anyone defamed Dez Wells it is the accuser, who he has chosen not to sue (ostensibly because she has no money).

[paulxu]

And Xavier didn't issue a statement saying Dez was a rapist. They issued a statement saying Dez had been expelled after he was found to have violated school policies.

Somehow this simple fact gets lost in all the hoopla.

[PMI]

So if a university panel made up of administrators, students and teachers, makes a determination that a student thinks is wrong, the university itself can be sued for libel and slander? Maybe Dez should sue all the members of the panel who voted against him. And Xavier didn't issue a statement saying Dez was a rapist. They issued a statement saying Dez had been expelled after he was found to have violated school policies. That's a true statement.

If they university panel did not follow its own policy, thus breaking its contract, as the law suit alleges, than yes, it can be.

[XU 87]

First of all, I think it goes without saying that any rape accusation should be handled by the real authorities, not the school. But that aside, regardless of how innocent you believe Shawn Marron was (which I completely disagree with and would love to hear your argument) it does not excuse how Luther Smith handled the aftermath. How can you justify him trying to prevent the story getting out at that cost?

As for your first sentence, I agree. But you will need to change federal law.

I don't have an opinion about Shawn Marron. I just know a judge found him not guilty of two counts of rape. Should he be permitted to sue X for expelling him? Didn't Xavier libel and slander him when they expelled him for rapes that he didn't commit?

I don't know Luther Smith but those that do seem to hate him. But I had no problem with him going to the one girl and telling her, "He will leave Xavier forever if you agree not to proceed with the expulsion hearing."

[PMI]

It doesn't matter why their hands were tied. If the feds were ordering them on how to handle the Dez situation, there was little if anything Xavier could do. People are acting like X had some discretion on how to handle this. At least when it got to the hearing level, I don't they had any discretion.

Of course it doesn't matter to this suit, but it sure as hell matters to a lot of Xavier alumni. I brought it up, as I mentioned, because I'm still trying to find any possible reason for Luther Smith to still be working at Xavier.


Whether the underlying decision was suspect it is absolutely true that Dez was found responsible for rape by the conduct board and that said offense is punishable by expulsion. Those statements are true and they cannot be defamatory.

Unless they've got some other information about Xavier officials leaking information about the accusations to the press or other third parties, then I don't see where the university has liability. If anyone defamed Dez Wells it is the accuser, who he has chosen not to sue (ostensibly because she has no money).

I get that he was found responsible of rape. But is the suit not alleging that those findings were false, were obtained by going against school policy, and has caused him personal damage?

And again, I don't think he will win, gun to my head, but the allegations of the law suit cannot be dismissed off the bat.

[XU 87]

If they university panel did not follow its own policy, thus breaking its contract, as the law suit alleges, than yes, it can be.

So should the panel members also have potential liability if they didn't follow the policy? Maybe Dez should have sued all of the members who voted against him.

[PMI]

As for your first sentence, I agree. But you will need to change federal law.

I don't have an opinion about Shawn Marron. I just know a judge found him not guilty of two counts of rape. Should he be permitted to sue X for expelling him? Didn't Xavier libel and slander him when they expelled him for rapes that he didn't commit?

I don't know Luther Smith but those that do seem to hate him. But I had no problem with him going to the one girl and telling her, "He will leave Xavier forever if you agree not to proceed with the expulsion hearing."

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. I have a big problem with it. It's a snake in the grass move in my opinion, given that the kid hadn't even been indicted yet (and thus the university had to determine if he was guilty before the law could, which they decided he was), had already been suspended for being accused of a previous rape, and that Smith's intent of cutting the deal was to put out the fire before it became public, not for any other noble reason.

[vee4xu]

Too bad this whole ordeal has to be rehashed one year later. But, that's how it goes I suppose. Hopefully it will get addressed and put away very soon once-and-for-all.

[PMI]

So should the panel members also have potential liability if they didn't follow the policy? Maybe Dez should have sued all of the members who voted against him.

I imagine that they should be reprimanded in some way or taken off the board if the allegations are true. No, Dez should not sue them individually and you know that. The panel is the school's responsibility and who they put on it is their choice.

[danaandvictory]

I get that he was found responsible of rape. But is the suit not alleging that those findings were false, were obtained by going against school policy, and has caused him personal damage?

Sort of. It's not quite that simple. Not everything that arguably causes damage to a person is actionable. The point is that the defamation requires a false statement, and nothing Xavier said was false. The kid had a hearing before the conduct board, he was found to have committed a violation, and he was expelled as a result. All those things are true regardless of whether the board made the right call.


And again, I don't think he will win, gun to my head, but the allegations of the law suit cannot be dismissed off the bat.

I think the libel claims are completely specious. The other stuff will depend on what comes out about the process used.

I've done work representing private universities in similar cases - not identical, but similar. And basically the law says you have no inherent right to attend a private school and as a result the court is going to defer to the university unless they've done something blatantly illegal (discrimination, harassment, etc.) That's why this is couched as breach of contract - their allegation is not really that X made the wrong decision (at heart it is, I guess), but that they improperly applied their internal procedures in reaching a decision.

I do want to make it clear that I don't endorse what Xavier did here and I'm glad that Wells was able to move on quickly. I certainly don't endorse the personnel decisions X has made that put them in this position. But this lawsuit, to me, is a money grab, it doesn't reflect well on Wells or his advisors, and is not going to lead to an outcome that makes anyone happier.

[PMI]

By the way, the RA girl who accused Wells, who also allegedly (read: obviously) broke several rules too, graduated from Xavier.

[XU2011]

There's still one thing that I just cannot understand for the life of me no matter how hard I try. Maybe one of you staunch Xavier/Graham defenders who see no fault on their side can help me out. Why in the fuck is Luther Smith still employed by our university? I want one good reason. How has Fr. Graham allowed him to continue on? Any justification for this would be appreciated.

I still don't understand this. Why (even after the layoffs Xavier just had this month) is Luther Smith STILL employed by the University? And the kicker is.... you know what his new job is? Director of Student Retention!! It's obvious how exceptionally he's performed in that role over the past year (sarcasm).

That is not to mention how Kathleen Simons remained on the payroll for months as Associate Provost as she was directly responsible for the federal indictment of Xavier. Or why in the world Mike Graham promoted the guy who was responsible for the mismanagement of the Dez fiasco from the interim position to permanent Associate Provost for Student Affairs. The dude doesn't have a single bit of experience, at all, outside of Campus Ministry and Faith & Justice.... and now is Xavier's Associate Provost for Student Affairs.

[PMI]

Sort of. It's not quite that simple. Not everything that arguably causes damage to a person is actionable. The point is that the defamation requires a false statement, and nothing Xavier said was false. The kid had a hearing before the conduct board, he was found to have committed a violation, and he was expelled as a result. All those things are true regardless of whether the board made the right call.



I think the libel claims are completely specious. The other stuff will depend on what comes out about the process used.

I've done work representing private universities in similar cases - not identical, but similar. And basically the law says you have no inherent right to attend a private school and as a result the court is going to defer to the university unless they've done something blatantly illegal (discrimination, harassment, etc.) That's why this is couched as breach of contract - their allegation is not really that X made the wrong decision (at heart it is, I guess), but that they improperly applied their internal procedures in reaching a decision.

So the school could theoretically expel a straight A student for taking the other side on a he said/she said rape accusation, blatantly break all of its own policies, and be perfectly fine, as long as they don't say he's a rapist? There's no argument that that kid could've been caused irreparable emotional distress jut because they didn't publicly defame his character? That sounds awfully shady.

In your second paragraph you acknowledge that the allegation is specifically that they improperly handled the procedures. If you're saying that that is where the case can be made, and not the expulsion for rape in and of itself, than I think we've been on the same page.

[GoMuskies]

It doesn't matter why their hands were tied. If the feds were ordering them on how to handle the Dez situation, there was little if anything Xavier could do. People are acting like X had some discretion on how to handle this. At least when it got to the hearing level, I don't they had any discretion.

It makes a HUGE difference why their hands were tied. They can't fuck up other cases, get themselves in trouble with the Feds, turn around and screw Dez and say "Sorry, nothing we can do about it!" Well, actually you could have not fucked up in the first place. X getting in trouble with the Feds doesn't give them license to screw over the next guy up. Much as they might be tempted to.

[Masterofreality]

A person who caused an inappropriate (or worse) action is made out now to be a victim.

This guy Ginsberg is really clever. Never seen a lawyer do that trick before.

Maybe it will become standard in the practice.

[XU2011]

Whether you think Dez Wells is a "little whiny gold digging bitch" as some people on here do, believe Mike Graham can do no wrong, or on the total opposite end of the spectrum that Mike Graham can't do anything right, Dez is a perfect kid etc. etc..... I think everyone would be well served reading the suit.

After reading it, it became increasingly clear that the leaders at Xavier rushed to judgment (it only took Johnson 2 days to deny appeal, refused to wait for lab results which concluded no sexual assault occured), were incompetent (administrator and employees admitting they had no training in this area and how to handle situations like this, Associate Provost of Student Affairs that is in charge of Conduct Board and denied the appeal has ZERO experience at all outside of Campus Ministry), totally mishandled and botched the situation (never determining who has the burden of proof- the plaintiff or defendant) and had already determined the outcome they were going to have before the hearings even began (allowing the RA to have multiple character witnesses- both written letters read into testimony and verbal testimony, but refused to allow Dez to have these and if witnesses for Dez started to give character testimony they were cut off, only allowed Dez one advisor to help him through the process who was a faculty member that had not once advised a student through the Conduct Board process, refused to let in testimony that the medical examiners determined no sexual assault occrued).

None of that is to say Dez has a valid lawsuit... but it's obvious that Xavier's leadership totally mishandled this situation. I'd be pissed, too, if I were Dez. I'd want to drag Xavier and Graham's name through the mud, too.

It's also alarming because Xavier can do this to anybody. Anyone can accuse someone of sexual assault and Xavier can expel them without allowing for the medical examiner's conclusions to be brought into the hearing, not waiting for labratory results, only allowing character witnesses for one of the parties, having staff and administrators who handle the situation knowingly admit they weren't prepared or trained for it, and for the appeal to be denied in 2 days. That's alarming to me.

And on top of that, the RA who broke a number of Student Code of Conduct rules (not to mention grossly broke rules pertaining to her RA position) was not even suspended, but graduated from Xavier!

[PMI]

Whether you think Dez Wells is a "little whiny gold digging bitch" as some people on here do, believe Mike Graham can do no wrong, or on the total opposite end of the spectrum that Mike Graham can't do anything right, Dez is an perfect kid etc. etc..... I think everyone would be well served reading the suit.

After reading it, it became increasingly clear that the leaders at Xavier rushed to judgment (it only took Johnson 2 days to deny appeal, refused to wait for lab results which concluded no sexual assault occured), were incompetent (administrator and employees admitting they had no training in this area and how to handle situations like this, Associate Provost of Student Affairs that is in charge of Conduct Board and denied the appeal has ZERO experience at all outside of Campus Ministry), totally mishandled and botched the situation (never determining who has the burden of proof- the plaintiff or defendant) and had already determined the outcome they were going to have before the hearings even began (allowing the RA to have multiple character witnesses- both written letters read into testimony and verbal testimony, but refused to allow Dez to have these and if witnesses for Dez started to give character testimony they were cut off, only allowed Dez one advisor to help him through the process who was a faculty member that had not once advised a student through the Conduct Board process, refused to let in testimony that the medical examiners determined no sexual assault occrued).

None of that is to set Dez has a valid lawsuit... but it's obvious that Xavier's leadership totally mishandled this situation. I'd be pissed, too, if I were Dez. I'd want to drag Xavier and Graham's name through the mud, too.

It's also alarming because Xavier can do this to anybody. Anyone can accuse someone of sexual assault and Xavier can expel them without allowing for the medical examiner's conclusions to be brought into the hearing, not waiting for labratory results, only allowing character witnesses for one of the parties, having staff and administrators who handle the situation knowingly admit they weren't prepared or trained for it, and for the appeal to be denied in 2 days. That's alarming to me.

And on top of that, the RA who broke a number of Student Code of Conduct rules (not to mention grossly broke rules pertaining to her RA position) was not even suspended, but graduated from Xavier!

I present to you all, the winning post.

[danaandvictory]

So the school could theoretically expel a straight A student for taking the other side on a he said/she said rape accusation, blatantly break all of its own policies, and be perfectly fine, as long as they don't say he's a rapist? There's no argument that that kid could've been caused irreparable emotional distress jut because they didn't publicly defame his character? That sounds awfully shady.

On a defamation claim? Yes, as long as there was no false statement made. In your scenario the student would have a great breach of contract claim and maybe you could prove the university purposefully railroaded the kid, in which case you might have intentional infliction of emotional distress.


In your second paragraph you acknowledge that the allegation is specifically that they improperly handled the procedures. If you're saying that that is where the case can be made, and not the expulsion for rape in and of itself, than I think we've been on the same page.

Sure. I'm saying that's the only part of this that has legs for me, and that presumes there will be substantial irregularities in the procedure used. But I'm not sure I buy that the specific issues they raised will bear that out. For example, they allege that there were issues with the burden of proof, but there's no indication that anyone specifically said, "Dez, the burden of proof is on you to prove your innocence." They seem to be assuming that because the decision went the other way, or by the behavior of people in the hearing. Is that good enough? I'm skeptical. Then you have the issue that members of the board were apparently not trained on sexual assault issues. Would that infect the process sufficiently to constitute a breach? I don't know.

But I can see where XU's legal counsel would look at this and say "this is the best you can do?" during settlement negotiations and choose to call their bluff.

[Masterofreality]

I present to you all, the winning post.

Why? Because this same poster had the pre-disposed position last year that Xavier screwed up?

Because this same poster only takes his position in this post from the one-way statements contained in the lawsuit filed by Dez' lawyer?

Because this same poster has no access to Xavier's internal papers and is only speculating that the outcome had been predetermined?

No. Not a winning post...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. Who the hell wins?

Only a post that states an opinion, and opinions are like a-holes....everybody has one.

[XU 87]

It makes a HUGE difference why their hands were tied. They can't fuck up other cases, get themselves in trouble with the Feds, turn around and screw Dez and say "Sorry, nothing we can do about it!" Well, actually you could have not fucked up in the first place. X getting in trouble with the Feds doesn't give them license to screw over the next guy up. Much as they might be tempted to.

My point is point is I don't think X had a choice in how this process took place. Graham may very well have wanted to step in, or give Dez more time, but the feds wouldn't let him.

[LadyMuskie]

Whether you think Dez Wells is a "little whiny gold digging bitch" as some people on here do, believe Mike Graham can do no wrong, or on the total opposite end of the spectrum that Mike Graham can't do anything right, Dez is a perfect kid etc. etc..... I think everyone would be well served reading the suit.

After reading it, it became increasingly clear that the leaders at Xavier rushed to judgment (it only took Johnson 2 days to deny appeal, refused to wait for lab results which concluded no sexual assault occured), were incompetent (administrator and employees admitting they had no training in this area and how to handle situations like this, Associate Provost of Student Affairs that is in charge of Conduct Board and denied the appeal has ZERO experience at all outside of Campus Ministry), totally mishandled and botched the situation (never determining who has the burden of proof- the plaintiff or defendant) and had already determined the outcome they were going to have before the hearings even began (allowing the RA to have multiple character witnesses- both written letters read into testimony and verbal testimony, but refused to allow Dez to have these and if witnesses for Dez started to give character testimony they were cut off, only allowed Dez one advisor to help him through the process who was a faculty member that had not once advised a student through the Conduct Board process, refused to let in testimony that the medical examiners determined no sexual assault occrued).

None of that is to say Dez has a valid lawsuit... but it's obvious that Xavier's leadership totally mishandled this situation. I'd be pissed, too, if I were Dez. I'd want to drag Xavier and Graham's name through the mud, too.

It's also alarming because Xavier can do this to anybody. Anyone can accuse someone of sexual assault and Xavier can expel them without allowing for the medical examiner's conclusions to be brought into the hearing, not waiting for labratory results, only allowing character witnesses for one of the parties, having staff and administrators who handle the situation knowingly admit they weren't prepared or trained for it, and for the appeal to be denied in 2 days. That's alarming to me.

And on top of that, the RA who broke a number of Student Code of Conduct rules (not to mention grossly broke rules pertaining to her RA position) was not even suspended, but graduated from Xavier!

You do understand, of course, that this complaint was written on behalf of Dez Wells by his attorney, and therefore is bound to be written in such a way as to make Dez Wells look good and Xavier look bad, right?

Having spent over a decade working with lawyers, I can assure you that the facts can be construed to help whomever it is that will be paying you once the trial is over. Good lawyers tend to be wonderful writers who make the facts appear to be one-sided and make those facts so interesting and fascinating that no one would dare think to take the side of the other party. This is why choosing judges is so damn important in this country. Anyone swayed so much by one recorded, albeit well-written, document should not be making judgments! It's also why defendants are given time to answer complaints before a judgment is made.

So, to say things like "it's obvious" or "it became increasingly clear" is naive and, frankly, silly and presumptuous since you have not yet read Xavier's response to the Complaint, which will, without doubt, be "obvious" and "increasingly clear" to Xavier and its attorneys, as to why Dez was in the wrong and Xavier in the right.

[XU2011]

Why? Because this same poster had the pre-disposed position last year that Xavier screwed up?

Because this same poster only takes his position in this post from the one-way statements contained in the lawsuit filed by Dez' lawyer?

Because this same poster has no access to Xavier's internal papers and is only speculating that the outcome had been predetermined?

No. Not a winning post...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. Who the hell wins?

Only a post that states an opinion, and opinions are like a-holes....everybody has one.

My post was pretty black and white. And I purposely left out any opinions or stretches from the lawsuit, but rather stuck with facts that should be indisputible.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that the Conduct Board refused to allow the medical examiner's conclusion that no sexual assault occured into the hearings... if they really did.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that the Conduct Board, Mike Graham and Dave Johnson refused to wait for labratory evidence that confirmed no sexual assault occured before they ruled and denied the appeal.... if they really did.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that the Conduct Board allowed multiple charater witnesses/testimony for the RA but not for Dez.... if they really did.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that Dez's only advisor allowed was a faculty member who had never once guided a student through the Conduct Board process.... if that wasn't true.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that Kathy Riga admitted she was not trained and unprepared to handle the situation... if she never admitted that.

I also talked about items that I know- such as Dave Johnson was the responsible for denying the appeal as the interim Associate Provost for Student Affairs. The guy was totally unqualified and unprepared to do that. The ENTIRE time he had been in higher ed, he was in Campus Ministry. All of his degrees are in some sort of faith & justice, religious studies etc.

The comments in my original post weren't just opinions, they were facts. Now Xavier can come out and say... no, we did let in testimony from the Medical Examiner, or no, we did allow character witnesses for both... or no, we did determined who had the purden of proof. But only one side is factually accurate and there are documents that will prove either way.

For as silly as I think Dez's lawyers are... I don't think they are that stupid to put in just flat-out proveable lies into their lawsuit.

[DC Muskie]

Maybe Dez's defense team should hire XU2011. Xavier might as well not even defend itself. It's increasingly clear that Xavier was completely wrong.

Why?

Because Dez's lawyer says so.

Can someone explain to me how anyone is properly trained to hear any case that leads to making a determination of one's fate?

I'd like to know the training of the women in the Zimmerman trial had to determine the proper decision in that case.

How does anyone know how to treat cheating or plagiarism? Let alone assault, like the case I was a part of while attending Xavier, an outcome where the accuser and accused reached a deal where the charge was dropped.

Is there a way to train people on campus? Or should we bring in the prosecutor and grand jury to come in and decide every accusation that comes across campus? I was accused of stealing by Chief Couch my senior year. I took a lie detector test, which I passed because I didn't do anything. Is Chief Couch allowed to handle on campus theft even though he is make believe police?

I'm still wondering where Dez and his team think his reputation is tarnished. They think getting Xavier to hand over some money and an apology is going to stop the distressing comments at basketball games?

Please.

[XU2011]

You do understand, of course, that this complaint was written on behalf of Dez Wells by his attorney, and therefore is bound to be written in such a way as to make Dez Wells look good and Xavier look bad, right?

Having spent over a decade working with lawyers, I can assure you that the facts can be construed to help whomever it is that will be paying you once the trial is over. Good lawyers tend to be wonderful writers who make the facts appear to be one-sided and make those facts so interesting and fascinating that no one would dare think to take the side of the other party. This is why choosing judges is so damn important in this country. Anyone swayed so much by one recorded, albeit well-written, document should not be making judgments! It's also why defendants are given time to answer complaints before a judgment is made.

So, to say things like "it's obvious" or "it became increasingly clear" is naive and, frankly, silly and presumptuous since you have not yet read Xavier's response to the Complaint, which will, without doubt, be "obvious" and "increasingly clear" to Xavier and its attorneys, as to why Dez was in the wrong and Xavier in the right.

Agree with many of your thoughts. See my post above.

A lot of what Dez's lawyers state are pretty black and white. Did Kathy Riga allow the medical examiner evidence that no sexual assault occured in or not? Did the RA have character witnesses and Dez did not? These are pretty straight-forward answers.

I'm interested to read Xavier's response, to say the least.... because how they handled it, doesn't leave me with a whole lot of confidence.

[Charlesbt4]

It's very obvious that there's a camp that would blindly defend Xavier regardless of the circumstances. If this actually sees the inside of a courtroom, which I can't imagine it wouldn't, Xavier will lose on some, and quite possibly all, of the grounds outlined in the complaint. Furthermore, for Xavier, settling may not be much of an option, as given the nature of the complaint, they would essentially be admitting that a previously flawed process that was subject to federal civil-rights complaints is still flawed; and may still be flawed on civil-rights grounds.

[XU2011]

It's increasingly clear that Xavier was completely wrong.

Why?

Because Dez's lawyer says so.

.

Did Kathy Riga and Dave Johnson allow into the hearing the medical evaluation that no sexual assault occured? Dez says no. There's only one answer to that.

Did Dave Johnson and Mike Graham deny Dez's appeal after only 2 days and refusing to wait for labratory testing that eventually also confirmed no sexual assault occured? Dez says no. Again, only one answer to that.

Was the RA allowed multiple character witnesses (both a letter from Fay Coleman and verbal testimony) while Dez was no allowed any character witnesses (and if anyone tried to talk about Dez's character, they were immediately shot down). Yes or no. It's either true or not.

Did the University provided Dez with an advisor who had not even ONCE guided students through this process? Dez says yes. Does the University disagree?

Did the man who is in charge of this entire disaster of a process not have ANY experience outside of Campus Ministry and now the Associate Provost for Student Affairs? That's what his resume says. Either yes or no.

Again, these aren't opinions. This isn't just taking a jab at Graham or Xavier to take a jab at them. Again, I love Xavier.

But that process is incredibly concerning. It could happen to anyone.

And on top of that, the accuser who was broke numerous Student Code of Conduct rules, numerous rules pertaining to her GA position, and according to the medical examination, labratory tests, prosecutor and grand jury made false allegations of sexual assault that were not true. She isn't suspended or expelled but rather graduates from Xavier.

Again, not opinions... just facts.

Now this is an opinion- I, like many of you, am disappointed and sad Dez brought this back to life again a year later. Everyone had moved on. It's unfortunate. It a lose-lose for Xavier and it's a lose for Dez because details that don't make him look good at all remerge. Xavier doesn't need anymore negative national publicity. But, if I were Dez, I probably would have felt the exact same way and done the same exact thing.

[danaandvictory]

It's very obvious that there's a camp that would blindly defend Xavier regardless of the circumstances. If this actually sees the inside of a courtroom, which I can't imagine it wouldn't, Xavier will lose on some, and quite possibly all, of the grounds outlined in the complaint. Furthermore, for Xavier, settling may not be much of an option, as given the nature of the complaint, they would essentially be admitting that a previously flawed process that was subject to federal civil-rights complaints is still flawed; and may still be flawed on civil-rights grounds.

I'm not inclined to blindly excuse Xavier, I have litigated these types of cases, and I think most of the counts in this complaint are specious at best.

[PMI]

Why? Because this same poster had the pre-disposed position last year that Xavier screwed up?

Because this same poster only takes his position in this post from the one-way statements contained in the lawsuit filed by Dez' lawyer?

Because this same poster has no access to Xavier's internal papers and is only speculating that the outcome had been predetermined?

No. Not a winning post...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. Who the hell wins?

Only a post that states an opinion, and opinions are like a-holes....everybody has one.

It was the "winning post" because there were no assholes... err, opinions in it. He stated the facts of what the law suit alleges. Of course it's from Dez's side, but he clearly broke down the specifics of the mishandling that was alleged, which, after all these pages, was the first time that had been done in this thread. MOR, you seem to be firmly on the side of the university and president, which a completely valid opinion too. What do you think of Luther Smith still being employed there?


My point is point is I don't think X had a choice in how this process took place. Graham may very well have wanted to step in, or give Dez more time, but the feds wouldn't let him.

But why would you think that is? Do you not think that Fr. Graham and the school deserve any of the blame for being in a position where their backs are against the wall? They get a totally free pass because shit just happens sometimes? It seems like that's what your posts have been implying. When you are the leader of an institution, you must be held at least partially responsible when this kind of shit storm breaks out.

I can understand both sides of the should he or shouldn't he have been kicked out argument. I really can. Obviously I fall on one side. But this idea that some seem to have that Graham and the university have done everything the right way, or the way they had to, over the past few years, is pretty distorted in my opinion. Nobody's perfect, I get that. But I'm very concerned about way too many things that have been happening at Xavier recently.

[Cheesehead]

I would really like to know what sanctions or discipline the accuser received. Didn't she also break student conduct as well? After hours w/ the opposite sex and rumors of some drinking that evening w/ a student that you are supervising?

This whole thing is really unfortunate. I wish Dez would have moved on and left it alone and then go make some money playing b-ball in Europe.

[DC Muskie]

Since you seem intent to repeat the same questions, I'll follow up with new questions.

Where in the Code of Conduct that every student signs onto say that the laws and process of the state will be followed to determine their status as students?

Where in the Code of Conduct that every students signs onto say that the appeal process will be more than two day after the decision?

Who are you to decide who can and can't be the Associate Provost for Student Affairs? Michael Graham has a psychology degree. Should he not be in charge of the school? David Dillon, the CEO of Kroger has a degree in law. Should he not have that job? Where would you hire someone to run that department since it's obvious to you people in Campus Ministry shouldn't have it, since the job just seems to be how you handle the disciplinary process at the school.

As numerous lawyers on this site have stated, Dez's team is putting together their argument. Your additions about who has what job because of where they last worked has ZERO to do with anything.

Dez is putting his reputation at risk for a completely different reason. All of this was going away slowly, but because fans heckled him he needs cash. That's pretty sad.

[LadyMuskie]

Did Kathy Riga and Dave Johnson allow into the hearing the medical evaluation that no sexual assault occured? Dez says no. There's only one answer to that.

Did Dave Johnson and Mike Graham deny Dez's appeal after only 2 days and refusing to wait for labratory testing that eventually also confirmed no sexual assault occured? Dez says no. Again, only one answer to that.

Was the RA allowed multiple character witnesses (both a letter from Fay Coleman and verbal testimony) while Dez was no allowed any character witnesses (and if anyone tried to talk about Dez's character, they were immediately shot down). Yes or no. It's either true or not.

Did the University provided Dez with an advisor who had not even ONCE guided students through this process? Dez says yes. Does the University disagree?

Did the man who is in charge of this entire disaster of a process not have ANY experience outside of Campus Ministry and now the Associate Provost for Student Affairs? That's what his resume says. Either yes or no.

Again, these aren't opinions. This isn't just taking a jab at Graham or Xavier to take a jab at them. Again, I love Xavier.

But that process is incredibly concerning. It could happen to anyone.

And on top of that, the accuser who was broke numerous Student Code of Conduct rules, numerous rules pertaining to her GA position, and according to the medical examination, labratory tests, prosecutor and grand jury made false allegations of sexual assault that were not true. She isn't suspended or expelled but rather graduates from Xavier.

Again, not opinions... just facts.

Now this is an opinion- I, like many of you, am disappointed and sad Dez brought this back to life again a year later. Everyone had moved on. It's unfortunate. It a lose-lose for Xavier and it's a lose for Dez because details that don't make him look good at all remerge. Xavier doesn't need anymore negative national publicity. But, if I were Dez, I probably would have felt the exact same way and done the same exact thing.


You and Dez's attorney are confusing the rules of law under the Constitution of the United States of America and common law when it comes to court proceedings in this fine nation of ours, and the way a university handles allegations of sexual assault and/or rape on campus. They are two different animals, right or wrong (and truthfully, it is probably wrong, because rape, like murder, is a serious crime and should be handled by experts who know what they're doing, but the federal government, in its unending wisdom, believes otherwise).

I'm sure Xavier will answer the complaint and say that it was under no obligation to handle the case the way Joe Deters or Hamilton County would. It will likely further state, in some manner, that Xavier was obligated under federal law to handle the case a specific way which it did. It will be at this point that Xavier will likely ask the judge to throw out the case as being without merit because Xavier handle the case the federal government told it to - which likely means it doesn't have to allow for forensic, medical or other kinds of evidence or testimony. Xavier has no obligation to hold a trial with the same kinds of rules that a criminal defendant could come to expect in criminal court.

[DfinnsDog10]

Where does it say that Dez is suing b/c he was heckled? I see people stating this but haven't seen it connected to this new lawsuit.

[paulxu]

My post was pretty black and white. And I purposely left out any opinions or stretches from the lawsuit, but rather stuck with facts that should be indisputible.

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that ....

Could you imagine that Dez's lawyers would note on page 1 of the lawsuit that "Xavier...defamed Wells by publicly proclaiming him guilty of rape..." and on page 11 of the lawsuit note the public release that makes NO mention of rape?

Do you suspect that is an indisputable fact? Because I can't imagine why they would say that on page 1 if it wasn't an indisputable fact.

This has been a sad occurrence for all parties. Dez has to accept some responsibility for what happened, and he seemed to have moved past it and on to success at Maryland. It serves no one well to bring this all back up again. I personally think this Deter guy must be a real piece of work, and screwed everything up with the way he handled his side of it. Maybe the judge will throw this out the same way they threw the Vilma case out, when this same lawyer tried the same thing.

[waggy]

The Conduct Board could be made of chimpanfuckingzeees. They take your bananas and send you to hell. It's a private institution.

[Masterofreality]

You and Dez's attorney are confusing the rules of law under the Constitution of the United States of America and common law when it comes to court proceedings in this fine nation of ours, and the way a university handles allegations of sexual assault and/or rape on campus. They are two different animals, right or wrong (and truthfully, it is probably wrong, because rape, like murder, is a serious crime and should be handled by experts who know what they're doing, but the federal government, in its unending wisdom, believes otherwise).

I'm sure Xavier will answer the complaint and say that it was under no obligation to handle the case the way Joe Deters or Hamilton County would. It will likely further state, in some manner, that Xavier was obligated under federal law to handle the case a specific way which it did. It will be at this point that Xavier will likely ask the judge to throw out the case as being without merit because Xavier handle the case the federal government told it to - which likely means it doesn't have to allow for forensic, medical or other kinds of evidence or testimony. Xavier has no obligation to hold a trial with the same kinds of rules that a criminal defendant could come to expect in criminal court.

Now...THIS is a fine post. And I'm done with this Tomfoolery....and Hijinks too.

No one will win here....and Dez Wells lawyer is a headline chasing shyster.

[GoMuskies]

My point is point is I don't think X had a choice in how this process took place. Graham may very well have wanted to step in, or give Dez more time, but the feds wouldn't let him.

Sure, but it still doesn't excuse them or make them any less culpable in this case. They made their bed. Doesn't mean Wells had to lie in it.

[waggy]

Dez made his bed.

[Xavier]

The chance that this could screw up Maryland's season concerns me greatly.

Personally I think the fact he is claiming severe emotional distress while playing really well is rubbish. But that's just me.

Why does it concern you? In your previous post you just said you might cheer against him, so the chance it could screw up Maryland's season would be a good thing, wouldn't it? (At least in your eyes)

[DC Muskie]

Where does it say that Dez is suing b/c he was heckled? I see people stating this but haven't seen it connected to this new lawsuit.

Dez;s lawyer mentions it under Dez experiencing severe emotional distress. Opposing fans cheer "you're a rapist", or "no means no" lends itself to the idea that Xavier falsely accused him of being a rapist. Dez is concerned about his reputation when he enters a basketball arena in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

[DfinnsDog10]

Now...THIS is a fine post. And I'm done with this Tomfoolery....and Hijinks too.

No one will win here....and Dez Wells lawyer is a headline chasing shyster.

Hope everyone is aware that Merlyn Shiverdecker is a huge Xavier supporter and season ticket holder. Hmm...

[PMI]

Since you seem intent to repeat the same questions, I'll follow up with new questions.

Where in the Code of Conduct that every student signs onto say that the laws and process of the state will be followed to determine their status as students?

Where in the Code of Conduct that every students signs onto say that the appeal process will be more than two day after the decision?

Who are you to decide who can and can't be the Associate Provost for Student Affairs? Michael Graham has a psychology degree. Should he not be in charge of the school? David Dillon, the CEO of Kroger has a degree in law. Should he not have that job? Where would you hire someone to run that department since it's obvious to you people in Campus Ministry shouldn't have it, since the job just seems to be how you handle the disciplinary process at the school.

As numerous lawyers on this site have stated, Dez's team is putting together their argument. Your additions about who has what job because of where they last worked has ZERO to do with anything.

Dez is putting his reputation at risk for a completely different reason. All of this was going away slowly, but because fans heckled him he needs cash. That's pretty sad.

Wow, talk about a stretch, DC. I never pretended to be qualified to hire presidents or provosts or anyone else. But I am of the opinion that Luther Smith is a despicable person and a disgrace to my university. And regardless of how qualified someone is when they're hired, if they fuck up badly enough, they should be fired. I never, ever said that Luther Smith has anything to do with this lawsuit directly. I brought it up because I want to get one good answer as to why he's still at Xavier, given all the shit that's happened recently, and I still haven't gotten one.

[DC Muskie]

Why does it concern you? In your previous post you just said you might cheer against him, so the chance it could screw up Maryland's season would be a good thing, wouldn't it? (At least in your eyes)

Hey I'm QPR fan and we still have Joey Barton on our team. That guy is complete shitstain. I don't root for Joey Barton.

I'm a Maryland fan and I was able to enjoy the season and not really be that into whatever Dez was doing. I'll be happy when Dez just moves to France and cries like everyone else over there.

[casualfan]

Dez;s lawyer mentions it under Dez experiencing severe emotional distress. Opposing fans cheer "you're a rapist", or "no means no" lends itself to the idea that Xavier falsely accused him of being a rapist. Dez is concerned about his reputation when he enters a basketball arena in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Link? I saw Wetzel mentioned it in this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-guard-dez-wells-suing-xavier-for-expulsion-021302176.html) but it's Wetzel that mentions the heckling not the attorney.

[DC Muskie]

Wow, talk about a stretch, DC. I never pretended to be qualified to hire presidents or provosts or anyone else. But I am of the opinion that Luther Smith is a despicable person and a disgrace to my university. And regardless of how qualified someone is when they're hired, if they fuck up badly enough, they should be fired. I never, ever said that Luther Smith has anything to do with this lawsuit directly. I brought it up because I want to get one good answer as to why he's still at Xavier, given all the shit that's happened recently, and I still haven't gotten one.

I honestly have no idea what this is response to. You keep bringing up Luther. I have no idea why he works there.

My response was to XU2011 response that the Campus ministry guy is somehow unqualified for the Student Affairs gig. What in his expert opinion makes that so? Has he ever hired anyone?

[XU 87]

Sure, but it still doesn't excuse them or make them any less culpable in this case. They made their bed. Doesn't mean Wells had to lie in it.

Of course it makes X less culpable if it was the Feds mandating how X handled this. If Fr. Graham said, "let's wait for the tests" and the Feds said "absolutely not, rule now", I don't blame Graham.

I think the entire process stinks. But I don't blame Xavier. I blame the rules they were required to operate under.

[DC Muskie]

Link? I saw Wetzel mentioned it in this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-guard-dez-wells-suing-xavier-for-expulsion-021302176.html) but it's Wetzel that mentions the heckling not the attorney.

Where does his emotional distress come from? He claimed he was "publicly humiliated." What do you think they are talking about?

Because you can't argue his emotional distress comes from not playing...because he played immediately.

[GoMuskies]

Of course it makes X less culpable if it was the Feds mandating how X handled this. If Fr. Graham said, "let's wait for the tests" and the Feds said "absolutely not, rule now", I don't blame Graham.

No, it doesn't. Again, X can't fuck up other cases and then throw up their hands on Dez's case and say "Sorry dude, feds". It's X's fault they were in that situation. That doesn't give them immunity in future cases just because the feds were involved. Blame Graham for X being in that position in the first place.

[XU 87]

So what should X have done in the Wells case? Tell the Feds to go to hell, we're doing it our way, not yours?

[waggy]

I guess needs to sue the federal government.

[GoMuskies]

So what should X have done in the Wells case? Tell the Feds to go to hell, we're doing it our way, not yours?

They shouldn't have gotten themselves in that situation in the first place.

[casualfan]

Where does his emotional distress come from? He claimed he was "publicly humiliated." What do you think they are talking about?

Because you can't argue his emotional distress comes from not playing...because he played immediately.

I don't know where the supposed emotional stress comes from. I'm just trying to figure out how you and others know it involved heckling from other fan bases.

Did Dez or his lawyer say something about this somewhere or are you just assuming it has to do with that? From your post it seems like you're just assuming.

I think what most likely happened is when the news broke people quickly scanned Wetzel's article, saw the mention of heckling and didn't realize it was Wetzel's commentary and not a remark from Dez or his lawyer.

[casualfan]

So what should X have done in the Wells case? Tell the Feds to go to hell, we're doing it our way, not yours?

I think the better question is what should Xavier have done to avoid being on the Feds radar in the first place.

[casualfan]

They shouldn't have gotten themselves in that situation in the first place.

Beat me to the punch haha.

[jcubspoe]

is the statute of limitations on this sorta thing 1 year in Ohio?

I've also yet to see any comments on the hypothetical I posed a few pages back.

The statute of limitations to sue the police or a responsible municipality is two years....not sure about private institutions.

[DC Muskie]

I don't know where the supposed emotional stress comes from. I'm just trying to figure out how you and others know it involved heckling from other fan bases.

Did Dez or his lawyer say something about this somewhere or are you just assuming it has to do with that? From your post it seems like you're just assuming.

I think what most likely happened is when the news broke people quickly scanned Wetzel's article, saw the mention of heckling and didn't realize it was Wetzel's commentary and not a remark from Dez or his lawyer.

Well Alex Prewitt from the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/report-university-of-maryland-basketball-player-dez-wells-files-suit-against-former-school-xavier/2013/08/21/8dca6e8a-0a15-11e3-8974-f97ab3b3c677_story.html) also came to same conclusion.

I mean to use your argument, Dez's lawyer doesn't say all of this is because Dez was deemed a rapist. It's just that he experienced "severe emotional distress" from being "publicly humiliated." Which I will assume from you means, Dez is upset that he was expelled and being expelled, for whatever reason, caused him to be publicly humiliated.

[XU2011]

I understand a lot of people on this board think Xavier can do no wrong.

I just hope it never happens to your kid or a family member or friend.

Accused of sexual assault. The medical examination said nothing occured, the lab tests say no sexual assault took place, as well as the district attorney, grand jury (and in this case, essentially, NCAA). Xavier will not let any evidence in that states no sexual assault occured. Won't tell you who has the burden of proof. Let's your accuser have multiple character witnesses testify for him/her, refuses to let you have any. Gives you a single advisor that has NEVER through the process before to guide you. The sends you a letter that you are expelled for "rape." Then a campus minister denies your appeal 2 days later.

How would you react if that fact pattern happened to you, or a loved one or friend? I know I would not be acting all that different from Dez.

[DC Muskie]

So knowing you can't actually get into a 1985 Delorean and go back two years to previous cases, what could Xavier do when the current situation with new regulations from the feds in making a decision? Tell them to f off?

[GoMuskies]

So knowing you can't actually get into a 1985 Delorean and go back two years to previous cases, what could Xavier do when the current situation with new regulations from the feds in making a decision? Tell them to f off?

Pick their poison, I suppose. Mess with the Feds orr mess with one of their own students. Not a good choice. Another reason to avoid these sorts of situations in the first place. When the feds come along, they're not your friend, and they're not there to make your life easier.

[XU2011]

Since you seem intent to repeat the same questions, I'll follow up with new questions.

Where in the Code of Conduct that every student signs onto say that the laws and process of the state will be followed to determine their status as students?

Where in the Code of Conduct that every students signs onto say that the appeal process will be more than two day after the decision?

.

I don't think anywhere.

It's about how Xavier's leadership MISMANAGED the situation. Please re-read my original post.

Refusing to allow ANY scientific or medical evidence that concluded no sexual assault occured?

Allowing the accuser to have multiple, formal character witnesses, but not allowing the accused to have a single one?

Not determining in the handbook or formally in the hearings who has the burden of proof?

The administrator who led this, Kathy Riga, admitting she was not prepared or trained for this?

Sending a letter to a student that he was expelled because of "rape"?

The accuser who broke numerous Student Code of Conduct rules and even more RA rules... is not suspended, or expelled, but rather a graduate of Xavier.

Yes, this was all handled very well by Xavier.

[DC Muskie]

I understand a lot of people on this board think Xavier can do no wrong.

I just hope it never happens to your kid or a family member or friend.

Accused of sexual assault. The medical examination said nothing occured, the lab tests say no sexual assault took place, as well as the district attorney, grand jury (and in this case, essentially, NCAA). Xavier will not let any evidence in that states no sexual assault occured. Won't tell you who has the burden of proof. Let's your accuser have multiple character witnesses testify for him/her, refuses to let you have any. Gives you a single advisor that has NEVER through the process before to guide you. The sends you a letter that you are expelled for "rape." Then a campus minister denies your appeal 2 days later.

How would you react if that fact pattern happened to you, or a loved one or friend? I know I would not be acting all that different from Dez.

OH MY GOD.

I for one know Xavier can do wrong, because I have been wronged in the past by Xavier.

That's a part of life. Thinking that you got screwed is not something anyone wishes on anybody.

I knew two people were sexually assaulted at Xavier and Xavier did nothing about it. I sat on a case where there was a sexual assault on a student from a teacher. That was a horrible experience. I think we got it right. We did the best we could. I bet that professor and his wife thought we were dead wrong. My stance, Don't get into a parked car with a student hammered and make unwanted advances.

To act like Dez Wells is the first person to ever felt wronged by a school is laughable. To put it in a manner of where "what if this happened to your kid," well if I had a kid who was stupid enough to mess around with a crazy broad, then crazy stuff is bound to happen.

Not long ago I was screwed over by a president of a Catholic school here in DC concerning a job I had accepted. The guy for no other reason pulled the offer weeks before I was supposed to begin work. He greatly effected my livelihood. But it's life. I guess I could have sued him since my resume had a huge hole in it and the next job I took really didn't flow with what I had done before.

Dez was expelled from school, but was cleared of any felonies, which is far greater than whatever school he attended. He gets to continue to play basketball and no one has been able to come up with the group of people other than maybe opposing fans, who have a negative impression of Dez's reputation.

[XU 87]

They shouldn't have gotten themselves in that situation in the first place.

I've dealt with government agencies on a variety of matters. I know from personal experience representing companies and individuals that just because a government agency investigates you, or even accuses you of doing something wrong, does not then mean you did something wrong. I've seen plenty of cases of government overreaching. And just because you settle with the government doesn't mean you did something wrong. Settlement can be the best way to get the government off your back. (I'm probably preaching to the choir).

P.S. In any event, since they were in "that situation", what should they have told the Feds? "Go to hell. We're doing it our way"?

[XU2011]

Who are you to decide who can and can't be the Associate Provost for Student Affairs? Michael Graham has a psychology degree. Should he not be in charge of the school? David Dillon, the CEO of Kroger has a degree in law. Should he not have that job? Where would you hire someone to run that department since it's obvious to you people in Campus Ministry shouldn't have it, since the job just seems to be how you handle the disciplinary process at the school.


I almost didn't respond because of how silly and small-minded your responses are.

Yes, Mike Graham has a pychology degree. He also has a philosophy degree. Also a masters in divinity. He was an assistant history professor, promoted to full history professor, VP for University Relations, Executive Assistant to the President... and finally president. A variety of degrees, a variety of cross-functional positions.

David Dillon has an undergrad in business, a law degree. Bio says he served in a variety of leadership positions across Fry Foods and Dillons Company before becoming President of the Dillons Division. The EVP of Kroger, then COO of Kroger and now CEO.

I'm not sure where you were trying to go with that. Perhaps another one of your failed analogies.

In my opinion, for a position such as Associate Provost of Student Affairs with the wide range of functions and divisions that covers, I would think Graham would have appointed someone with a broader background or educational experience.. not someone who had never served outside of a Campus Ministry/Faith & Justice position. And never had any educational degrees outside of that. Unfortuantely for Xavier, he didn't get the job done correctly with the Dez case... and it's now making national news, yet again.

[DC Muskie]

I don't think anywhere.

It's about how Xavier's leadership MISMANAGED the situation. Please re-read my original post.

Refusing to allow ANY scientific or medical evidence that concluded no sexual assault occured?

Allowing the accuser to have multiple, formal character witnesses, but not allowing the accused to have a single one?

Not determining in the handbook or formally in the hearings who has the burden of proof?

The administrator who led this, Kathy Riga, admitting she was not prepared or trained for this?

Sending a letter to a student that he was expelled because of "rape"?

The accuser who broke numerous Student Code of Conduct rules and even more RA rules... is not suspended, or expelled, but rather a graduate of Xavier.

Yes, this was all handled very well by Xavier.

Your argument is that they mismanaged it by court of law standards. Standards they are not subjected to.

You might not like it, but good luck finding a school anywhere in the country that operates in a way you and Dez's camp thinks it should.

[Masterofreality]

Hope everyone is aware that Merlyn Shiverdecker is a huge Xavier supporter and season ticket holder. Hmm...


Yep. I'm just going to go right along with a poster with the name of "DFinnsDog10". Nothing but positive Xavier connotations in that name.

Well, here are the facts. Shiverdecker went to Capital, not Xavier. Yes, his firm does have Xavier season tickets. The firm does not have a suite. I would guess, although I don't know, that Shiverdecker's firm also has SucKS season tickets. However, in looking at the Annual Xavier Financial Reports list of donors going back to 2008, Shiverdecker's name appears NOWHERE. Repeat, NO-WHERE. Not in the 1831 or Father Finn Societies. Not in any of the "Gifts and Grants" lists. NOWHERE.....and the list is very long and extensive.

That would not seem to me to be a "huge Xavier supporter". Just want to make sure that everyone "is aware" of that.

Hmmmmmmm.

[XU 87]

I don't think anywhere.

It's about how Xavier's leadership MISMANAGED the situation. Please re-read my original post.

Refusing to allow ANY scientific or medical evidence that concluded no sexual assault occured?

Allowing the accuser to have multiple, formal character witnesses, but not allowing the accused to have a single one?

Not determining in the handbook or formally in the hearings who has the burden of proof?

The administrator who led this, Kathy Riga, admitting she was not prepared or trained for this?

Sending a letter to a student that he was expelled because of "rape"?

The accuser who broke numerous Student Code of Conduct rules and even more RA rules... is not suspended, or expelled, but rather a graduate of Xavier.

Yes, this was all handled very well by Xavier.

I'll say this again. Never, ever, ever take statements contained in a lawsuit as the gospel truth.

And I'll say this again- you are assuming that X was making its own independent decisions as to how to handle this case. I doubt that was the case.

I agree that the process was unfair. But I blame the rules X was required to operate under. I really don't think X was out to get Wells.

[BandAid]

They shouldn't have gotten themselves in that situation in the first place.

One could say the same thing to Dez and the young woman...

[XU 87]

Hope everyone is aware that Merlyn Shiverdecker is a huge Xavier supporter and season ticket holder. Hmm...

I think he gave up his season tickets. And he has no love for Fr. Graham.

[DC Muskie]

I almost didn't respond because of how silly and small-minded your responses are.

Then don't respond.

Speaking of small mindedness, I really would like to know specifically what type of person should have that job, and not defining it by the background of the person who currently holds it.

Do you know specifically this guy's CV? Or his working relationship with other people? I mean you are judging him on one case, and you call me small minded?

How did a history professor get to become the VP of Development? So a guy who was in Campus Ministry can't move up into student affairs? Is that your stance? Just stay in Campus Ministry guy, you don't have the necessary experience to move into a bigger job with more experience.

Good luck in your early career. I hope people who take a chance on you aren't so small minded as you are.

Choose to respond or not. But please don't tell me again how you weren't then went ahead anyway. Don't waste any more of your or my time. Thanks.

[XU 87]

I'll add one more thing. Under Ohio law, if you don't suffer a physical injury, you generally can only recover for "emotional distress" if someone does something intentionally to you. It's known as "intentional infliction of emotion distress". So even if X was negligent, even if X breached a contract, Wells shouldn't get emotional distress damages.

[gladdenguy]

XU2011,
Its not worth your time. He/she is a fool. I suggest the ignore feature. It works out wonderfully except when posters quote him/her.
#TEAMDEZ #FREEDEZ

[GoMuskies]

Isn't it just physical manifestation of the emotional distress? Like if he could show that he threw up a time or two as a result of the distress, wouldn't that get him over the physical manifestation hurdle? It's been a long time since I've spent much time with tort law, though.

[Kahns Krazy]

I can't imagine Dez's lawyers would put in the suit that the Conduct Board, Mike Graham and Dave Johnson refused to wait for labratory evidence that confirmed no sexual assault occured before they ruled and denied the appeal.... if they really did.
.

I'm just picking this one. Lab evidence can not confirm that sexual assault did or did not occur. It is possible for rough, consensual sex to look like assault and it is possible for an assault to not result in physical evidence. Either side may interpret those results, but lab test cannot confirm anything one way or another.

[Masterofreality]

I understand a lot of people on this board think Xavier can do no wrong.

I just hope it never happens to your kid or a family member or friend.

Accused of sexual assault. The medical examination said nothing occured, the lab tests say no sexual assault took place, as well as the district attorney, grand jury (and in this case, essentially, NCAA).

If you recall the well documented series of events as recounted last year, there would be no "lab tests" or "medical examination" that would indicate sexual assault. Without going into all the details, the girl asked Dez if he wrapped up, twice. He said yes...twice. Then he unprotectively spewed. There was sex, but under false assumptions. She freaked and felt assaulted because she was lied to...twice. Under the Deters' legal definition of sexual assault, it wouldn't reach that level, but it did under the Code of Conduct.

Quit citing the "medical examiner" and lab tests. Those are red herrings. the Code and it's interpretation is all that counts.