Breaking Bad Final Season

[Milhouse]

If you haven't started watching Breaking Bad you should stay out of this thread and also seriously reconsider what television you are watching.

Seemed like there was enough people watching in Netflix to start it's own thread. Clearly there will be SPOILERS.

Talk about an incredible episode. This show just can't disappoint. I have no idea where it goes from here. I honestly thought there wouldn't be a confrontation between Walt and Hank until the last 3 episodes. But no, we get it in Episode 1. Amazing.

[Jumpy]

That showdown in the garage was great. Walt's line about treading lightly made the entire episode for me. With Jesse going off the deep end and chucking stacks of cash out of the car, I have to believe that Walt will have to finally deal with him.

All in all, I just can't wait to see what happens to get to the point where Walt is seen as such a pariah that the sight of him alone about causes his neighbor to shit her pants. I love those flash forwards that they do throughout the show, BTW.

[PMI]

Loved it. That final scene was awesome. I'm so glad they hit that now because that just means that there is so much more to fit into the next seven episodes.

[bobbiemcgee]

Interested to see what he does with the M60 in his trunk and the ricin.

[casualfan]

Interested to see what he does with the M60 in his trunk and the ricin.

I have a feeling the ricin is coming back full circle to Jesse.

[Milhouse]

I'm starting to think Jessie might even take his own life. It seems like he has less and less to live for every episode.

[DC Muskie]

I thought the first 8 episodes this season were okay, but man I loved the opening and final scene of episode 9.

It's going to be quite a ride.

[Jumpy]

For all of you Breaking Bad fans, do yourselves a favor and listen to Marc Maron's podcast WTF when he had Bryan Cranston (the actor that plays Walt)on as a guest. One interesting thing I learned from that podcast is that Jesse's character was originally scheduled for a quick death in the first season, but everyone responded very strongly to the character, so they rewrote the script to keep him around.

[BBC 08]

Hello, Carol.

[PMI]

I'm starting to think Jessie might even take his own life. It seems like he has less and less to live for every episode.

I think Jesse is going to make it his life goal to take down Walt. They kind of hinted at that in the preview, but it makes the most sense to me. That could potentially explain the opening ricin scene. Perhaps Walt realizes he needs to use it on Jesse. It's going to be awesome to se how everything unfolds.

[Milhouse]

For all of you Breaking Bad fans, do yourselves a favor and listen to Marc Maron's podcast WTF when he had Bryan Cranston (the actor that plays Walt)on as a guest. One interesting thing I learned from that podcast is that Jesse's character was originally scheduled for a quick death in the first season, but everyone responded very strongly to the character, so they rewrote the script to keep him around.

To go along with this Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston's Nerdists episodes are great and indepth on the series. Creator Vince Gilligan just came on the Nerdist last week too but I haven't listened just yet.

Also great video if you haven't seen it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz-5z7J-V-8

[PMI]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/breaking-bad-easter-eggs-that-will-blow-your-mind

I found this pretty interesting. I think there's definitely something to the theory that Walt picks up character traits of the people he kills, which could mean bad things for Skyler (the "52" bacon opening scene at the diner in episode 1 of season 5) and Jesse (the green jacket Walt wears in the opening scene of this half of season 5.) It might be time to start taking bets on what happens with the ricin.

[Milhouse]

Pretty good episode last night. Clearly not the mind blower that the premiere was. But I was amazed at how fast they're advancing the story. I honestly never even thought of the point Marie made that if they Catch Walt and found out that Hank knew about it he would be at fault.

Also was a bit surprised that Walt was vehemently against going after Hank. I suppose he still retains a bit of his humanity...but won't be surprised to see this change. Gotta feel for Hank such a good guy, more or less the hero of this series.

[STL_XUfan]

Also was a bit surprised that Walt was vehemently against going after Hank. I suppose he still retains a bit of his humanity...but won't be surprised to see this change. Gotta feel for Hank such a good guy, more or less the hero of this series.

Then again Walt never wants to kill anyone at first. It reminds me of a college coaching vacancy. The first sign that Walt is going to kill someone is making a public statement that he has no interest in killing that person.

[Jumpy]

Then again Walt never wants to kill anyone at first. It reminds me of a college coaching vacancy. The first sign that Walt is going to kill someone is making a public statement that he has no interest in killing that person.

Love the analogy and I agree. Its like he has to have the idea planted, then warm up to it. I'm convinced after last night's episode that Jesse will kill himself, so the ricin is either going to Hank, Skyler or Walt himself.

My crazy left field theory: Walt realizes that he can't stop the onslaught of johnny law and signs a huge life insurance policy naming the kids as benificiaries. He then goes on the lam long enough to lessen the pressure around his home, sneaks back for the ricin, dumps it in his coffee and dies what appears to be a natural, cancer-induced death. Bing-bang-boom- the kids now have 5 million clean dollars.

[bobbiemcgee]

The thought of Walt filling out an insurance application made me laugh. They have to be careful who they kill off if there is going to be a movie deal someday.

[Milhouse]

The thought of Walt filling out an insurance application made me laugh. They have to be careful who they kill off if there is going to be a movie deal someday.

Is this serious?

No chance of a movie. End is the end for sure. Only chance of any "continuation" would be the Saul Goodman Spin Off.

[DC Muskie]

Where does Lydia fit in all of this?

Or Todd for that matter?

[Jumpy]

I would say that Walt would find a way to pin all of his nefarious dealings on them and walk away Scott free, but based on last week's episode, we know that at some point in the near future he is outed as Heisenberg.

[DC Muskie]

Well God damn.

[STL_XUfan]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BiNooRpNE88/UJF7Svv4x9I/AAAAAAAAGQw/OX3QRSoQuU8/s640/shit-just-got-real-spongebob.jpg

[BBC 08]

Well that was fun.

[Jumpy]

Walt's confession was fantastic. He's got hank by the balls now.

Jessie's revelation was a little too hokey for me and took me out of the suspension of belief state, but I'm sure I'll find a way to get past it.

[casualfan]

did anyone notice that todd was wearing what looked to be the green jacket walt ends up with?

[Milhouse]

did anyone notice that todd was wearing what looked to be the green jacket walt ends up with?

Didn't notice but wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Todd is a casualty. I love Jesse Plemons from FNL but man that character has just not been flushed out enough. Granted he came along in the final season of the show.

There are only 5 episodes left. And there is so much ground to cover with Walt going on the run. I think people have determined that takes place something like 8 months from now.

They've literally covered like 4 days or so in the first 3 episodes so i expect a big time jump/montage coming soon.

Can you believe people actually watched the VMAs last night when this show was on? Pretty much everything wrong with America when you turn in to see N Sync reunited over one of the greatest television shows of all time unfold.

[DC Muskie]

Jessie's revelation was a little too hokey for me and took me out of the suspension of belief state, but I'm sure I'll find a way to get past it.

I still don't get this. How did looking at his cigarettes get him to realize that Walt poisoned Brock? I'm scratching my head on this one.

[DC Muskie]

did anyone notice that todd was wearing what looked to be the green jacket walt ends up with?

Nice catch, I did not notice that, but I did notice that Jesse was not wearing anything similar.

[PMI]

I still don't get this. How did looking at his cigarettes get him to realize that Walt poisoned Brock? I'm scratching my head on this one.

I thought it was kind of far fetched at first too, but thinking back, I think it makes total sense. Jesse was paranoid, on to Walt's lies, and in a state of obsessively trying to figure everything out. He realizes that Huel picked his weed, which leads him to think back. But the reason it really worked for me is because his paranoia and "loose cannon-ness" are what led to him busting into Saul's office in a rage. Even if the ricin cigarette really wasn't stolen, the way he went in there to kick Saul's ass, and then held him at gunpoint, was believable because of how paranoid he was. The fact that Saul easily breaks when his back's against the wall, and thus admitted to it, is also believable. But there was an episode in the first half of last year where Jesse was obsessing over what could've happened to the cigarette, to the point where Walt comes over and helps him "find" it. So it's something that was at the forefront of his mind, and something he's been trying to put together, not just a random leap he made when he realized his weed was gone. It had always bothered him that the cigarette disappeared, and being in a similar situation with Huel, and "losing" something again, caused him to figure it out. When Walt and Jesse "find" it in the vacuum last season, Jesse is on better terms with Walt and still trusts him. Now, Jesse knows that Walt is a manipulative liar and always has been, so he can put it all together. Even if Jesse were dead wrong about his suspicions, I think it's still believable that he would overreact in a paranoid rage and storm in on Saul with accusations and fury. That's the beauty of it. The fact that Saul admitted it just gives Jesse the verification he needs, and really, Jesse's been going through his head lately for more and more verification that Walt is, in fact, the lying asshole that he is, so he's probably going to err on whatever the opposite side of "giving him the benefit of the doubt" is.

It's on now.

[Milhouse]

I still don't get this. How did looking at his cigarettes get him to realize that Walt poisoned Brock? I'm scratching my head on this one.

Because Jesse had the Ricin in a cigarette to kill Gus Fring in Season 4. Jesse then believed that he lost the cigarette (which then showed up in vaccum cleaner in season 5.

Jesse realized when Huell lifted the dope off of him that he had done the same thing with the Cigarettes allowing Walt to remove the Ricin to poison Brock.

Jesse suspected that Walt was the one to Poison Brock in Season 4, however Walt manipulated him into thinking that it was Gus (Who do we know that has no problem killing children?) This realization that the cigarette had been lifted off of him a month or so ago confirmed his initial suspicion that it was in fact Walt.

Complicated? yes. But man do I love this show.

[DC Muskie]

Next stupid question...

How do we know Huell lifted the dope off Jesse? Jesse lights up in the office then later is standing on the road searching for his weed?

[casualfan]

Next stupid question...

How do we know Huell lifted the dope off Jesse? Jesse lights up in the office then later is standing on the road searching for his weed?

when jesse busts back in he says "you took it, you bastard" or something similar and saul admits heul lifted the pot before he realizes that's no what jesse is talking about.

[DC Muskie]

Right okay, that's what I thought. Thanks!

[PMI]

Upon thinking back to the opening scene, if I'm remembering correctly, there is one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Todd's uncles or whoever those two he works with are, are great enough criminal master minds to pull off a dozen prison murders in a couple of minutes. They're obviously smart enough to be active high end criminals who aren't currently in jail. Yet they are dumb enough to drive down the interstate with a huge barrel of methylamine right out in the open? I think that opening scene made it pretty clear that they really aren't very calculated at all, but rather reckless and haphazard. They are obviously going to come into play. They are going to be a problem for Walter.

[STL_XUfan]

Upon thinking back to the opening scene, if I'm remembering correctly, there is one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Todd's uncles or whoever those two he works with are, are great enough criminal master minds to pull off a dozen prison murders in a couple of minutes. They're obviously smart enough to be active high end criminals who aren't currently in jail. Yet they are dumb enough to drive down the interstate with a huge barrel of methylamine right out in the open? I think that opening scene made it pretty clear that they really aren't very calculated at all, but rather reckless and haphazard. They are obviously going to come into play. They are going to be a problem for Walter.

Not to mention that Walt is wearing Todd's coat in the future scenes.

[BandAid]

Upon thinking back to the opening scene, if I'm remembering correctly, there is one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Todd's uncles or whoever those two he works with are, are great enough criminal master minds to pull off a dozen prison murders in a couple of minutes. They're obviously smart enough to be active high end criminals who aren't currently in jail. Yet they are dumb enough to drive down the interstate with a huge barrel of methylamine right out in the open? I think that opening scene made it pretty clear that they really aren't very calculated at all, but rather reckless and haphazard. They are obviously going to come into play. They are going to be a problem for Walter.

What got me was that Todd was using Walt and Jesse's names in that bit - so much for the anonymity of Heisenberg

[Nigel Tufnel]

Upon thinking back to the opening scene, if I'm remembering correctly, there is one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Todd's uncles or whoever those two he works with are, are great enough criminal master minds to pull off a dozen prison murders in a couple of minutes. They're obviously smart enough to be active high end criminals who aren't currently in jail. Yet they are dumb enough to drive down the interstate with a huge barrel of methylamine right out in the open? I think that opening scene made it pretty clear that they really aren't very calculated at all, but rather reckless and haphazard. They are obviously going to come into play. They are going to be a problem for Walter.

That's the feeling I got too. Which explains why they showed the scene of one of them wiping the blood off his shoes. Kills all those guys, drives down the road with methylamine and doesn't check his shoes for blood? Careless.

[DC Muskie]

I thought it was creepy that Todd didn't even mention popping the kid afterwards. Not that big of deal for Todd.

[drudy23]

OK...I've been sold. I have never watched BB, but I've heard so many people talking about, I'm starting at Season One and trying to catch up. I watched the pilot last night. You people better not let me down.

[casualfan]

OK...I've been sold. I have never watched BB, but I've heard so many people talking about, I'm starting at Season One and trying to catch up. I watched the pilot last night. You people better not let me down.


Depending on your job/family situation I'd be willing to bet you'll be caught up sooner rather than later.

[PMI]

OK...I've been sold. I have never watched BB, but I've heard so many people talking about, I'm starting at Season One and trying to catch up. I watched the pilot last night. You people better not let me down.

You should probably do yourself a favor and stay out of this thread until you're caught up. It's not the kind of show you want spoiled for you.

[DC Muskie]

OK...I've been sold. I have never watched BB, but I've heard so many people talking about, I'm starting at Season One and trying to catch up. I watched the pilot last night. You people better not let me down.

You will not be disappointed.

[XUFan09]

I just started watching the show less than two weeks ago. Now I'm impatiently waiting until next Sunday for episode 12.

[bobbiemcgee]

I've been planning a late summer vacation:

https://securecdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/593/5869/original.jpg

[GuyFawkes38]

At this point, nearly all the main characters would like Walter caught or dead. I'm in that camp also. I do not find anything remotely redeemable about him. Even before he "broke bad", he was beyond arrogarant. Going into the meth business had nothing to do with providing for his family and everything to do with showcasing his superior intelligence.

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I love Breaking Bad. But don't most great shows revolve around a somewhat likable character. Will the show creators find someway to redeem Walt. I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

[XUFan09]

At this point, nearly all the main characters would like Walter caught or dead. I'm in that camp also. I do not find anything remotely redeemable about him. Even before he "broke bad", he was beyond arrogarant. Going into the meth business had nothing to do with providing for his family and everything to do with showcasing his superior intelligence.

Definitely. If he was sincere about his "family first" claims, he would have checked his ego and taken the money from his old friends (can't remember their names at the moment). Hell, they even offered him a high-level job, presumably collaborating most directly with them at Gray Matter, with which he would have had health care for the best oncologist and the salary to provide for his family after his death. But nope, his pride couldn't take such a blow after his history with them, so instead he entered a business where the money would all be confiscated if he ever got caught and his family could be (and was) put in serious danger.

Seriously, the guy was always an arrogant, resentful dick whose true nature was initially obscured by a "dorky nice guy" persona.

[PMI]

He was a pushover for most of his life who was routinely taken advantage of and stuck in a life of underachievement. Then he got life-changing news, and said, "fuck it." I get it. Perhaps his pride was always there, but it always succumbed to his cowardice and feebleness. His problem was, once he stopped caring and actually started "living," his pride became his own worst enemy. He was never able to find a healthy middle ground.

I'm not sure I really buy that he was always a dick who kept up this evil he is capable of inside. I think he really did "break bad." I think everyone's got some dick in them, no homo, but he was too much of a bitch to man up and let it out when he needed to, like when snotty little high school kids talked back to him in class. I think he got addicted to the feeling of being someone who would by no means get walked on. The Heisenberg alter ego gave him a huge early dose of it, and as time wore on, the line between Heisenberg and Walt pretty much diminished. Now he's a manipulative, arrogant, evil son of a bitch.

I'm by no means bored with him being pure evil, and don't really care to see any personal redemption. I just can't wait to sit back, crack open a beer, and wait for the atomic bomb that is his life to explode all over Albuquerque.

[DC Muskie]

I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

What? Arguably the best dramas on television the last few years have been The Sapranos, The Wire and Mad Men.

Pure evil is boring? The show is not called "Becoming Good at the End of Day."

[Jumpy]

At this point, nearly all the main characters would like Walter caught or dead. I'm in that camp also. I do not find anything remotely redeemable about him. Even before he "broke bad", he was beyond arrogarant. Going into the meth business had nothing to do with providing for his family and everything to do with showcasing his superior intelligence.

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I love Breaking Bad. But don't most great shows revolve around a somewhat likable character. Will the show creators find someway to redeem Walt. I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

Don't hold your breath because the whole point of the show was to chronicle a good guy turning bad. There's no turning around for Walt now.

[Jumpy]

Definitely. If he was sincere about his "family first" claims, he would have checked his ego and taken the money from his old friends (can't remember their names at the moment). Hell, they even offered him a high-level job, presumably collaborating most directly with them at Gray Matter, with which he would have had health care for the best oncologist and the salary to provide for his family after his death. But nope, his pride couldn't take such a blow after his history with them, so instead he entered a business where the money would all be confiscated if he ever got caught and his family could be (and was) put in serious danger.

Seriously, the guy was always an arrogant, resentful dick whose true nature was initially obscured by a "dorky nice guy" persona.

Would you want to sell out and take the charity being offered by the two people who betrayed you both in love and business? I wouldn't.

[BandAid]

I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

A big theme in the show has been that actions have consequences, and in particular bad actions have bad consequences. The season with the plane crash is a perfect example of this. Walt's actions (in)directly led to a disaster. I would be shocked if Walt didn't get his comeuppance. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see him beg forgiveness before getting completely broken, like sobbing, dead family broken.

[DC Muskie]

He was a pushover for most of his life who was routinely taken advantage of and stuck in a life of underachievement. Then he got life-changing news, and said, "fuck it." I get it. Perhaps his pride was always there, but it always succumbed to his cowardice and feebleness. His problem was, once he stopped caring and actually started "living," his pride became his own worst enemy. He was never able to find a healthy middle ground.

I'm not sure I really buy that he was always a dick who kept up this evil he is capable of inside. I think he really did "break bad." I think everyone's got some dick in them, no homo, but he was too much of a bitch to man up and let it out when he needed to, like when snotty little high school kids talked back to him in class. I think he got addicted to the feeling of being someone who would by no means get walked on. The Heisenberg alter ego gave him a huge early dose of it, and as time wore on, the line between Heisenberg and Walt pretty much diminished. Now he's a manipulative, arrogant, evil son of a bitch.

I'm by no means bored with him being pure evil, and don't really care to see any personal redemption. I just can't wait to sit back, crack open a beer, and wait for the atomic bomb that is his life to explode all over Albuquerque.

I agree with this. I think he was handed a shit burger and decided to add a ton of mustard and ketchup to eat it. Oh and leave some to others who get in his way.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I love Breaking Bad. But don't most great shows revolve around a somewhat likable character. Will the show creators find someway to redeem Walt. I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

I agree with some others. I didn't see any moments of redemption in the Sopranos, The Wire (I know you aren't as high on this one), or The Shield. I'm not sure if you'd consider The Shield a great show...but the last season of that series was horrible. What Shane did to his family still makes my stomach churn. And Vic Mackey most certainly did not become redeemed. Having said that, the three shows I listed are among the more critically acclaimed dramas in the last 10 years. I don't watch Mad Men...but it sounds like the same can be said for that show. Deadwood just kind of ended because HBO thought it would be a better idea to throw all its money towards Rome (good move)....but I'm not sure that show would have ended with any moments of redemption either. Obviously the end of Game Of Thrones hasn't been written yet, but I've got my doubts as to whether anyone will be redeemed in that show either...maybe...but it wouldn't surprise me if Martin didn't stick it to the readers and end GOT without much redemption.

My opinion is that you should follow PMI's advice....just sit back and enjoy the train wreck that's coming. Unless you just don't find it entertaining...

[XUFan09]

Would you want to sell out and take the charity being offered by the two people who betrayed you both in love and business? I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't. But then I also wouldn't be spewing B.S. about "anything for family" when I really mean "anything for family that let's me retain my pride."

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[XUFan09]

I don't think he was always evil, but I do think he was always arrogant and resentful (though on second thought, "dick" might be too strong of a word). That arrogance and that resentment at his life and against certain people fueled him toward evil when added to the pressure of a shitty situation with few options. Without that situation, though, he was still far from a redeeming person.

I also don't think he's pure evil now. He had a look of shock at what he had just done when he shot Mike and then he expressed regret at the situation to Mike as he was dying. He still didn't want to kill Hank. He cared enough about Jesse still to give him the financial means to disappear and start a new life rather than just off him once he became a liability. There are just severe limits on these "good" aspects of Walt, as people are treated as means to an end.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[GuyFawkes38]

Redemption is the wrong the word. What I meant is I would like some sort of acknowledgement by Walt of the horror he has caused. We did get that a little when he killed Mike. But for the most part, Walt has become devoid of emotion and self-consciousness. He's just going through the motions. He's like a robot, which is appropriate for the man he has become. But we need some sort of human release from him.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Redemption is the wrong the word. What I meant is I would like some sort of acknowledgement by Walt of the horror he has caused. We did get that a little when he killed Mike. But for the most part, Walt has become devoid of emotion and self-consciousness. He's just going through the motions. He's like a robot, which is appropriate for the man he has become. But we need some sort of human release from him.

I'm suspecting you might see that this season if/when Walt Jr. or Skylar get whacked. I can't fathom Gilligan would kill the baby girl...but if that happens, you'd definitely get the human side of Walt.

[PMI]

I don't think he was always evil, but I do think he was always arrogant and resentful (though on second thought, "dick" might be too strong of a word). That arrogance and that resentment at his life and against certain people fueled him toward evil when added to the pressure of a shitty situation with few options. Without that situation, though, he was still far from a redeeming person.

I also don't think he's pure evil now. He had a look of shock at what he had just done when he shot Mike and then he expressed regret at the situation to Mike as he was dying. He still didn't want to kill Hank. He cared enough about Jesse still to give him the financial means to disappear and start a new life rather than just off him once he became a liability. There are just severe limits on these "good" aspects of Walt, as people are treated as means to an end.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

Yea, I definitely think he's always had the resentment. He was very obviously not a redeemable character even before the cancer, as he had several weaknesses and had bottled up frustrations. I am not in the camp that thinks it's solely ego that led him to cooking meth and that he should have swallowed his pride and accepted the money from Gretchen and Elliot. I think most people would feel pretty low accepting that money given his romantic past with Gretchen and business past with the both of them, as he felt he was taken advantage of. To be dependent on them all these years later would be insulting, and I don't think you need excessive pride to feel that way. I think the whole thing has been about Walt's manhood, actually. Back in season 3, he really was intent on leaving the business for good to attempt to rebuild his family. Even after seeing the super lab that Gus had built, he still turned down the millions of dollars for three months' work. It wasn't until Gus looked him square in the eyes and challenged his manhood that he finally agreed to cook again. Walt seems to be someone who's always been nerdy, and whose manhood has always been challenged, and pre-cancer, he always succumbed to his fears. He refuses to let that happen anymore, and instead takes the other extreme, where he will always answer the challenge of his manhood with his ego. Normal people have a healthy middle ground. You aren't going to let someone walk all over you, but you know when to swallow your pride before it leads to something completely destructive too. Walt doesn't seem to have that balance, and instead just overcompensates for the tool he used to be.

I do think he's pretty damned close to pure evil. He still has his "values" (i.e.. not killing family) but I don't really trust them at all. As we've seen, Walter will cross whatever the next line is to protect himself. He may be against killing Hank, but as we saw last episode, he doesn't seem to have much problem ruining his life. It's kind of impossible to know what goes through Walt's head when he commits the evil he commits, but one thing we know for sure is that he's more than capable of doing it. Mike's murder was likely another result of Walt's huge ego, as he really didn't have to kill him, but did after Mike insulted him. He doesn't seem to have the ability to identify a line that he simply won't cross, once his manhood is challenged or his pride kicks in. Even though he may seem regretful of things, or seem to have some kind of moral boundaries, those things always succumb to the Heisenberg ego when they are put to the test. I put nothing past the guy.

[DC Muskie]

Not the best episode last night. The final scene with Jesse calling Walt was very confusing.

Only 4 shows left!

[SlimKibbles]

Not the best episode last night. The final scene with Jesse calling Walt was very confusing.

Only 4 shows left!

Just setting things up for the finish. What did you find confusing about the scene?

[DC Muskie]

Just setting things up for the finish. What did you find confusing about the scene?

I just found the entire "I'm pissed at you so I'm going to burn down your house" to "There's no way I'm meeting with Mr. White" to "Oh I'm going to get you real good" line very confusing.

I thought the mistaken identity play was cheesy as well. It would have been cool if Walt found out that Jesse and Hank are working together. I'm sure that will be in the next episode.

Don't get me wrong, still good, but not as good as the previous episodes.

Also, what was the point of Marie talking to her shrink? Seemed random and didn't advance anything.

[casualfan]

I just found the entire "I'm pissed at you so I'm going to burn down your house" to "There's no way I'm meeting with Mr. White" to "Oh I'm going to get you real good" line very confusing.

I thought the mistaken identity play was cheesy as well. It would have been cool if Walt found out that Jesse and Hank are working together. I'm sure that will be in the next episode.

Don't get me wrong, still good, but not as good as the previous episodes.

Also, what was the point of Marie talking to her shrink? Seemed random and didn't advance anything.

So you're confused why the drugged up tweaker is all over the place? You did notice Walt finding the CD with drugs all over it in Jesse's car yeah?

As for Marie talking to her shrink I'm pretty sure it was a good bit of foreshadowing. You know, the whole googling untraceable poisons and such.

[DC Muskie]

So you're confused why the drugged up tweaker is all over the place? You did notice Walt finding the CD with drugs all over it in Jesse's car yeah?

As for Marie talking to her shrink I'm pretty sure it was a good bit of foreshadowing. You know, the whole googling untraceable poisons and such.

Yeah I noticed Jesse was drugged up when he was trying to burn down walt's house. I also noticed he wasn't drugged up when he was freaked out about the possibility of meeting Walt face to face. The entire "So your plan is to follow his plan?" He wasn't drugged up when he went off to meet him and something in him flipped when he saw a bald headed dude.

I hope the Marie storyline develops into something though.

[NY44]

I have mixed feelings about all of this. I love Breaking Bad. But don't most great shows revolve around a somewhat likable character. Will the show creators find someway to redeem Walt. I would like to see some sort of redemption moment, because pure evil is boring.

The Sopranos?

[GoMuskies]

Hank and Marie watch the VMAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UUD3zyu7Ek&feature=player_embedded

[GuyFawkes38]

The Sopranos?

I'm not a big fan of The Sopranos for the reasons I previously mentioned. Every character is absurdly unlikable. Someone mentioned on this thread that all the great recent TV series have unlikable main characters. IMHO, that is not correct for Mad Men. Don Draper fits the typical protagonist role. The viewer roots for him. Draper does awful things, but he feels guilty after doing them and is fully aware of the pain that he is causing himself and his family.

I don't want to sound like a downer. I absolultey love Breaking Bad. And this week did humanize Walt. After connecting emotionally with his son, Walt refuses to take out Jesse. That's a human side to Walt that we haven't seen in a while.

Definitely felt like a transition episode to setup a wild ending.

[Milhouse]

I'm a big fan of the theory that Walt purchasing the Machine Gun in the flash forwards is in an attempt to rescue/save Jesse and not his family.

This would somewhat redeem Walt, or at least put him in a Gray area. Time and time again we've seen Walt save Jesse and care for Jesse. I think it's entirely possible that he does kill Jesse but I would love the show to end with Walt saving him. I can already feel those tears coming on.

4 Episodes left. I'm requesting work off after the finale. I think I'll be up all night on the internet reading reactions and generally just enjoying this amazing show. Last finale I was this amped for was Lost....and man was that a colossal let down.

[PMI]

I think the best, most satisfied I've ever felt watching a television series finale was after Lost. Not because it was good; it most certainly wasn't. But I had never seen the show before the finale, and only watched it because I was stuck in Chicago at a house of friends who were obsessed with the show. When I realized that they had just wasted the last several years for THAT, I found it pretty hilarious. It also made me so proud of myself for not getting invested in a show that I probably would have watched at some point. If we find out Walter's actually been dead the whole time...

[Milhouse]

I think the best, most satisfied I've ever felt watching a television series finale was after Lost. Not because it was good; it most certainly wasn't. But I had never seen the show before the finale, and only watched it because I was stuck in Chicago at a house of friends who were obsessed with the show. When I realized that they had just wasted the last several years for THAT, I found it pretty hilarious. It also made me so proud of myself for not getting invested in a show that I probably would have watched at some point. If we find out Walter's actually been dead the whole time...

Well it's a doubled edged sword really. I was obsessed with the show like most, watched it week after week, read up online, listened to podcasts etc...never missed an episode. I remember justifying to myself the finale was worth etc...but as I look back. It really wasn't. But that doesn't detract from the experience one iota. Lost is a show like breaking bad. It's best to watch it when it airs week by week. Be in the trenches with the show and the fans etc...

There was an article on here saying how fans are rewarded if they watch with a show rather than binge watch. BB had a great example. we waited over 10 MONTHS from the scene where Hank finds the Leaves of Grass book to the next episode. Say what you will but the people that watch Season 5 episode 8 and then click season 5 episode 9 are missing a great deal of built up excitement. There's something to be said for watching a show when airs. Some shows are a lot better if you just binge through them, you can ignore their flaws (I find Sons of Anarchy to benefactor of this...true blood as well) but others benefit from the slow burn.

I really enjoyed Lost, but I'll probably never revisit it. Maybe in 25 years or so when I have kids and they want to watch it, but no time soon. In good conscience I can't recommend it because of some incredibly bad episodes but it was a fun ride, there is just a lot of better television out there. Lost never really went full genre television that was one of its man problems. Can't be toeing the water just need to jump in accept what you are.

[GoMuskies]

I don't feel cheated by having seen the Hank/Walt showdown approximately 25 minutes after I first saw Hank discover the Walt Whitman book.

[DC Muskie]

Well it's a doubled edged sword really. I was obsessed with the show like most, watched it week after week, read up online, listened to podcasts etc...never missed an episode. I remember justifying to myself the finale was worth etc...but as I look back. It really wasn't. But that doesn't detract from the experience one iota. Lost is a show like breaking bad. It's best to watch it when it airs week by week. Be in the trenches with the show and the fans etc...

There was an article on here saying how fans are rewarded if they watch with a show rather than binge watch. BB had a great example. we waited over 10 MONTHS from the scene where Hank finds the Leaves of Grass book to the next episode. Say what you will but the people that watch Season 5 episode 8 and then click season 5 episode 9 are missing a great deal of built up excitement. There's something to be said for watching a show when airs. Some shows are a lot better if you just binge through them, you can ignore their flaws (I find Sons of Anarchy to benefactor of this...true blood as well) but others benefit from the slow burn.

I really enjoyed Lost, but I'll probably never revisit it. Maybe in 25 years or so when I have kids and they want to watch it, but no time soon. In good conscience I can't recommend it because of some incredibly bad episodes but it was a fun ride, there is just a lot of better television out there. Lost never really went full genre television that was one of its man problems. Can't be toeing the water just need to jump in accept what you are.

Completely agree with this especially with SOA, which in my mind is an okay show, but pretty formulaic in each episode.

I never watched Lost and probably never will considering the ending. Personally I really liked the ending of the Sopranos and appreciated the way The Wire didn't move on to other topics that didn't feel they could produce good story lines with (namely spotlighting the Hispanic population of Baltimore).

[Milhouse]

I don't feel cheated by having seen the Hank/Walt showdown approximately 25 minutes after I first saw Hank discover the Walt Whitman book.

You don't feel cheated but if you got into the show late there wasn't really another option...seeing that a year a go and discussing/thinking about it with others was an incredible rewarding experience. One i think is often missed in the watch it whenever we want culture.

That's not say I don't fall prey to that as well. I've had Netflix Watched instantly since the day it came out, I also have Hulu and HBO Go is how I watch everything outside of sports and several shows.


Completely agree with this especially with SOA, which in my mind is an okay show, but pretty formulaic in each episode.

I never watched Lost and probably never will considering the ending. Personally I really liked the ending of the Sopranos and appreciated the way The Wire didn't move on to other topics that didn't feel they could produce good story lines with (namely spotlighting the Hispanic population of Baltimore).

Sopranos I struggled with for a while but I've come to appreciate it more and more as time goes.

[PMI]

Well it's a doubled edged sword really. I was obsessed with the show like most, watched it week after week, read up online, listened to podcasts etc...never missed an episode. I remember justifying to myself the finale was worth etc...but as I look back. It really wasn't. But that doesn't detract from the experience one iota. Lost is a show like breaking bad. It's best to watch it when it airs week by week. Be in the trenches with the show and the fans etc...

There was an article on here saying how fans are rewarded if they watch with a show rather than binge watch. BB had a great example. we waited over 10 MONTHS from the scene where Hank finds the Leaves of Grass book to the next episode. Say what you will but the people that watch Season 5 episode 8 and then click season 5 episode 9 are missing a great deal of built up excitement. There's something to be said for watching a show when airs. Some shows are a lot better if you just binge through them, you can ignore their flaws (I find Sons of Anarchy to benefactor of this...true blood as well) but others benefit from the slow burn.

I really enjoyed Lost, but I'll probably never revisit it. Maybe in 25 years or so when I have kids and they want to watch it, but no time soon. In good conscience I can't recommend it because of some incredibly bad episodes but it was a fun ride, there is just a lot of better television out there. Lost never really went full genre television that was one of its man problems. Can't be toeing the water just need to jump in accept what you are.

Good points. I binged Breaking Bad from the beginning through Season 4 around April of last year, and then picked it up live at Season 5. There is definitely a difference when having to go through the waiting. However, one advantage I found in watching the DVDs was the lack of commercials and the handful of little extra scenes without edited language and such. One of the reasons I really love Breaking Bad is the way it's shot, the camera work, framing, coloring, editing, cinematography, etc. It's quite a movie-like experience. The first time I watched it live with commercials, I really noticed the difference, in that I didn't have that feeling that I was just watching this continuous movie.

You seem like you keep up on a lot of series. Do you have a top 10 or top 5 list?

[Milhouse]

You seem like you keep up on a lot of series. Do you have a top 10 or top 5 list?

I do spend way too much time in the realm of pop culture movies, tv, sports...not necessarily a top 5 list but show's I really enjoyed that are no longer on the air:

Oz
The Sopranos
Buffy/Angel
Firefly
Studio 60/Sports Night
The West Wing
The Shield - you should check this out if you're fan of SOA and haven't seen it.
Six Feet Under
The Twilight Zone
The Larry Sanders Show - probably the most underrated/forgotten HBO show.

Stuff I'm currently watching:
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Walking Dead
Newsroom
True Blood
Sons of Anarchy
American Horror Story
Homeland


I'm not a big fan of Dexter or Game of Thrones. I'm glad that both shows exist and are popular because that will lead to more creative/freedom development but I just think there is a ton of better genre TV out there than both of them. And then there's a lot of comedies/sitcoms Ive enjoyed as well but that list is probably twice as long. I'm a big fan of the TV medium and think its infinitely better for telling stories. That said I still own 500+ movies on DVD.

My biggest shame is still not having finished The Wire. Started it 5 years ago and didn't come back to it. I know I'll love it, just a matter of getting back into it.

[XUFan09]

The Wire is straight-up awesome. I was watching it through the end of season 3 when my computer needed to get sent to the shop. Since my wife's computer apparently can't handle HBO Go but can handle Netflix, I jumped on the Breaking Bad bandwagon and quickly caught up. Now that my computer is back and I have to wait until Sundays for BB, it appears time to return to that magnificent Baltimore drama.

[LA Muskie]

I do spend way too much time in the realm of pop culture movies, tv, sports...not necessarily a top 5 list but show's I really enjoyed that are no longer on the air:

Oz
The Sopranos
Buffy/Angel
Firefly
Studio 60/Sports Night
The West Wing
The Shield - you should check this out if you're fan of SOA and haven't seen it.
Six Feet Under
The Twilight Zone
The Larry Sanders Show - probably the most underrated/forgotten HBO show.

Stuff I'm currently watching:
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Walking Dead
Newsroom
True Blood
Sons of Anarchy
American Horror Story
Homeland


I'm not a big fan of Dexter or Game of Thrones. I'm glad that both shows exist and are popular because that will lead to more creative/freedom development but I just think there is a ton of better genre TV out there than both of them. And then there's a lot of comedies/sitcoms Ive enjoyed as well but that list is probably twice as long. I'm a big fan of the TV medium and think its infinitely better for telling stories. That said I still own 500+ movies on DVD.

My biggest shame is still not having finished The Wire. Started it 5 years ago and didn't come back to it. I know I'll love it, just a matter of getting back into it.
Millhouse we have very (as in extremely) similar taste in TV. I don't see too many Sports Night references on peoples' top TV lists -- glad to see you appreciate it as much as I do. And yes, I used the present tense intentionally. I have the entire series on DVD and break it out at least once ever few months. The great thing about Sorkin is not just the writing (which I love) but that he gets outstanding actors as a result.

[LA Muskie]

To this day there is no TV show that has captivated me like LOST. I agree the finale absolutely sucked (among other things, the ending was nearly exactly what they promised it would not be). And there were some really (REALLY) bad episodes along the way. But those flaws aside, to me it was revolutionary. Especially the way they used the internet and the fanboys (and girls). Just an outstanding way to make a TV show interactive.

I like Breaking Bad. But not as much as everyone tells me I'm supposed to like it. Like others, I'm just not sure I relate to Walt the way I've related to other protagonists. The character is no Don Draper. He's not even Tony Soprano. And I get that they're not trying to make him into that, but that decision is also keeping me at arms-length with him. Add to that the fact that I absolutely hate Skylar, and it's somewhat amazing that I like it as much as I do. For me, the show has been all about Jesse, Mike, Saul, Gus, and Hank (in that order).

I don't mean to say it's bad TV. It's still the best thing on TV in my opinion. It just doesn't remotely reach the level of Lost or The Sopranos. At least not in my book.

[PMI]

I do spend way too much time in the realm of pop culture movies, tv, sports...not necessarily a top 5 list but show's I really enjoyed that are no longer on the air:

Oz
The Sopranos
Buffy/Angel
Firefly
Studio 60/Sports Night
The West Wing
The Shield - you should check this out if you're fan of SOA and haven't seen it.
Six Feet Under
The Twilight Zone
The Larry Sanders Show - probably the most underrated/forgotten HBO show.

Stuff I'm currently watching:
Breaking Bad
Mad Men
Walking Dead
Newsroom
True Blood
Sons of Anarchy
American Horror Story
Homeland


I'm not a big fan of Dexter or Game of Thrones. I'm glad that both shows exist and are popular because that will lead to more creative/freedom development but I just think there is a ton of better genre TV out there than both of them. And then there's a lot of comedies/sitcoms Ive enjoyed as well but that list is probably twice as long. I'm a big fan of the TV medium and think its infinitely better for telling stories. That said I still own 500+ movies on DVD.

My biggest shame is still not having finished The Wire. Started it 5 years ago and didn't come back to it. I know I'll love it, just a matter of getting back into it.

I haven't seen all the shows you mention, but I agree with the ones you listed. Funny you say you're not a Game of Thrones fan, as you're probably the first person I've heard who isn't totally obsessed with it. I'll probably be giving it a shot after Breaking Bad. As for Dexter, I agree. I loved it when it first came out. The first couple/few seasons were well done. I loved the contrast of how dark and creepy the content was, but how bright the setting and colors were, among other things. Now, it's just unbearably cheesy to me. I don't expect shows about a serial killer working in homicide to be totally realistic, but Miami Metro in that show is made up of BY FAR the dumbest people on the planet to not be clued in at this point. I've literally guessed every single "twist" this season while rolling my eyes. I'm invested, so I'm going to finish the last few episodes, but I was almost kind of happy that they took the Labor Day Sunday off. To me it was kind of like, alright terrible writers, take the week off and think about what you've done. They should've ended it after the John Lithgow season. What a great, creepy serial killer he played.

[GoMuskies]

I like Breaking Bad. But not as much as everyone tells me I'm supposed to like it.

I'm with you. I really like it, but I'm not going to ask off work the day after the finale to talk about it on the Internet all night.

[Milhouse]

Millhouse we have very (as in extremely) similar taste in TV. I don't see too many Sports Night references on peoples' top TV lists -- glad to see you appreciate it as much as I do. And yes, I used the present tense intentionally. I have the entire series on DVD and break it out at least once ever few months. The great thing about Sorkin is not just the writing (which I love) but that he gets outstanding actors as a result.

Oh I'm a huge Sorkin fan, I think he's one of the best writers in the entertainment industry today, all the work he's done in movies too is pretty incredible, I mean just in the last 5 years he's adapted The Social Network and Moneyball. I like Newsroom but it's not nearly as good as his other stuff. I think Studio 60 might've been my favorite, the show had so much potential but premiered opposite of 30 Rock so it didn't have much of a chance. Sportsnight is classic and holds up incredibly well too. And The West Wing is probably Sorkin at his best (and at times his worst). Sportsnight used to be on Netflix not sure about the rest, but can't recommend his stuff enough.

If you're fan of the writing + ensemble cast I'd honestly give some Joss Whedon stuff a chance. Very similar to Sorkin as he has a very clear voice/dialogue among his different shows and also goes back to many of the same actors/character archetypes. Firefly is probably the best way to get into him and the smallest time commitment.

[LA Muskie]

Oh I'm a huge Sorkin fan, I think he's one of the best writers in the entertainment industry today, all the work he's done in movies too is pretty incredible, I mean just in the last 5 years he's adapted The Social Network and Moneyball. I like Newsroom but it's not nearly as good as his other stuff. I think Studio 60 might've been my favorite, the show had so much potential but premiered opposite of 30 Rock so it didn't have much of a chance. Sportsnight is classic and holds up incredibly well too. And The West Wing is probably Sorkin at his best (and at times his worst). Sportsnight used to be on Netflix not sure about the rest, but can't recommend his stuff enough.

If you're fan of the writing + ensemble cast I'd honestly give some Joss Whedon stuff a chance. Very similar to Sorkin as he has a very clear voice/dialogue among his different shows and also goes back to many of the same actors/character archetypes. Firefly is probably the best way to get into him and the smallest time commitment.

I liked Studio 60 a lot as well, although I preferred the cast of Sports Night (more professional actors, and no Matthew Perry). I don't think it premiered opposite 30 Rock though -- both were NBC shows. I actually worked at NBC at the time. There was a lot of consternation about airing both shows at the same time. Ironically, it was 30 Rock that nearly ended up on the editing room floor. Lorne Michaels single-handedly saved it, although the fact that NBC didn't have ANYTHING worth watching (save SNL -- see above -- and the L&O franchise) didn't hurt. I'm glad they both made it to air. For the first few seasons 30 Rock was probably the best-written sitcom on TV. Sadly, it jumped the rail and never gotten back on. (It didn't even get close.)

Studio 60 suffered the fate of the 1-hr critically acclaimed network TV drama: it did well, but not well enough to justify the cost. There's a reason most of the successful dramas are on cable -- since they are subscriber-fee supported, they can play to their niche market instead of the masses. And that makes for much better TV.

[Milhouse]

I'm with you. I really like it, but I'm not going to ask off work the day after the finale to talk about it on the Internet all night.

Sorry I'm not sorry. Took work off after The Dark Knight Rises and Avengers Marathons too. I will always embrace these events/things as long as I can...basically until I have kids and they take over those vacation days.


I haven't seen all the shows you mention, but I agree with the ones you listed. Funny you say you're not a Game of Thrones fan, as you're probably the first person I've heard who isn't totally obsessed with it. I'll probably be giving it a shot after Breaking Bad. As for Dexter, I agree. I loved it when it first came out. The first couple/few seasons were well done. I loved the contrast of how dark and creepy the content was, but how bright the setting and colors were, among other things. Now, it's just unbearably cheesy to me. I don't expect shows about a serial killer working in homicide to be totally realistic, but Miami Metro in that show is made up of BY FAR the dumbest people on the planet to not be clued in at this point. I've literally guessed every single "twist" this season while rolling my eyes. I'm invested, so I'm going to finish the last few episodes, but I was almost kind of happy that they took the Labor Day Sunday off. To me it was kind of like, alright terrible writers, take the week off and think about what you've done. They should've ended it after the John Lithgow season. What a great, creepy serial killer he played.

I think I'll probably check Dexter out again at some point, but I just wasn't impressed. Don't get me wrong I like Game of Thrones, but I just think it is very overrated. As some people in this thread have said maybe I just don't like it as much as I'm supposed to. I just find it a bit boring at times, the one thing I do like is they don't dumb it down. It's pretty hard to follow at times with all of the characters and intersecting stories but they don't dumb it down to the common viewer...which of course is a luxury of being on HBO.


I liked Studio 60 a lot as well, although I preferred the cast of Sports Night (more professional actors, and no Matthew Perry). I don't think it premiered opposite 30 Rock though -- both were NBC shows. I actually worked at NBC at the time. There was a lot of consternation about airing both shows at the same time. Ironically, it was 30 Rock that nearly ended up on the editing room floor. Lorne Michaels single-handedly saved it, although the fact that NBC didn't have ANYTHING worth watching (save SNL -- see above -- and the L&O franchise) didn't hurt. I'm glad they both made it to air. For the first few seasons 30 Rock was probably the best-written sitcom on TV. Sadly, it jumped the rail and never gotten back on. (It didn't even get close.)

Studio 60 suffered the fate of the 1-hr critically acclaimed network TV drama: it did well, but not well enough to justify the cost. There's a reason most of the successful dramas are on cable -- since they are subscriber-fee supported, they can play to their niche market instead of the masses. And that makes for much better TV.

I didn't mean premiered opposite. I believe they both premiered at the same time. Fall 05 or 06 maybe? I believe the consensus was the only one show would make it to the next season. I think studio 60 was cut due to its budget and 30 rock had marginally better ratings. I agree with you on cable, there is also a lot more creative freedom when you're not answering to a broadcast network and all of their advertisers.

I do agree with 30 Rock though. It was one of the Best Sitcoms of the last decade or so. I'd say Community is currently my favorite sitcom, but my god the 4th season was outright horrendous...not sure that it can ever redeem itself after that.

[RoseyMuskie]

In terms of BB, I think the nail has been hit on the head. Aaron Paul's performance this season has been superb. Little dialogue, but when he does speak, it has been meaningful. Absolutely loved the scene of him spinning on the wheel at the park.

PMI-Completely agree with your Dexter/Lithgow/Labor Day comments. This season has been entirely filler. And while the Zach Hamilton/protege storyline was filler, I think the season should've focused more around it. It would have been the best choice of crap.

What's everyone think of Homeland and The Walking Dead? For some reason I draw parallels to Rick and Walt. It's not an apples to apples situation, but both are presented with doomsday scenarios, and both go a little "whacky." Rick comes in and out, whereas Walt seems to be fully committed to the "bad side." Rick's "bad" is also a bit different. Season two on TWD dragged, but it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Governor in the coming season.

Don't know what to think about Brody heading into the next season of Homeland.

[PMI]

Heven't watched Walking Dead, but I'm a big Homeland fan. It might be my second favorite behind Breaking Bad, but I am still missing out on plenty of the popular ones so take that with a grain of salt.

[paulxu]

I can't get a lot of those shows you guys follow (and it sounds like I'm missing out on some good TV).

But I like The Bridge, and sooner or later Justified has to roll around (I hope).

[Milhouse]

I do really like Homeland. I think season 1 was one of the best first seasons of any show ever. Season 2 tried to match it a little too much and it got derailed. I'm still on board for this upcoming season...no way it fills the hole Breaking Bad leaves but I'll be happy it's back. Also anyone that likes Homeland I'd recommend checking out Sleeper Cell. It's basically the inverse of Homeland but was on Showtime probably close to 10 years ago (came out a bit after 9/11) but it's a CIA agent that infiltrates a Sleeper Cell in the U.S. Haven't seen it since it premiered but it was absolutely great back then. If memory serves it also had a rather underwhelming second season too.

I like Walking Dead but the stories drag wayyyy too much. Too much time spent in one place. I'm a huge fan of the comics, but I appreciate it taking a more or less different course than the comics. Cannot recommend them enough to anyone that likes the show. I was very underwhelmed by last season, but we'll see how it goes from here. Really was hoping The Walking Dead would lead to more comic book shows being picked up such as Preacher and Y the last Man. So far doesn't seem like much has developed on that front though.

[LA Muskie]

I didn't mean premiered opposite. I believe they both premiered at the same time. Fall 05 or 06 maybe? I believe the consensus was the only one show would make it to the next season. I think studio 60 was cut due to its budget and 30 rock had marginally better ratings.
Fall of '06. And that's all pretty much right except that NBC would have been more than happy to keep them both on beyond Season 1. They crossed that bridge when they decided to proceed with both. And frankly they didn't have anything better to replace either show. Hell, Dick Wolf might as well have owned the network at that time; half the prime-time programming was his (or so it seemed).

Studio 60 was a casualty to art and cost. They refused to dumb it down, which meant that a significant portion just couldn't get it or couldn't follow it. (Common with Sorkin-written shows.) That meant average ratings for a critically-acclaimed but expensive hour. Those just don't work in the network TV model. Nowadays the series would have just shifted to a cable net (probably USA given its general mass appeal and lack of edginess). It's done fairly frequently now. But back then, a move from a net to cable was practically unheard-of.

[Milhouse]

Fall of '06. And that's all pretty much right except that NBC would have been more than happy to keep them both on beyond Season 1. They crossed that bridge when they decided to proceed with both. And frankly they didn't have anything better to replace either show. Hell, Dick Wolf might as well have owned the network at that time; half the prime-time programming was his (or so it seemed).

Studio 60 was a casualty to art and cost. They refused to dumb it down, which meant that a significant portion just couldn't get it or couldn't follow it. (Common with Sorkin-written shows.) That meant average ratings for a critically-acclaimed but expensive hour. Those just don't work in the network TV model. Nowadays the series would have just shifted to a cable net (probably USA given its general mass appeal and lack of edginess). It's done fairly frequently now. But back then, a move from a net to cable was practically unheard-of.

I also work in TV and not too mention the ratings that 60 was pulling back then would almost certainly get it renewed today. Same can be said about Firefly, Freaks and Geeks, Undeclared, and any show that met it's demise too early.

Sorkin did the right thing with going back to HBO. Fits his style much better.

[LA Muskie]

I also work in TV and not too mention the ratings that 60 was pulling back then would almost certainly get it renewed today. Same can be said about Firefly, Freaks and Geeks, Undeclared, and any show that met it's demise too early.

Sorkin did the right thing with going back to HBO. Fits his style much better.
Agreed, and I'm very happy that he did. Newsroom is by no means Sorkin's best work, but I love the cast and it fills the void that existed for his style of writing. Plus I get to see Olivia Munn and listen to Emily Mortimer on a weekly basis (twice if I re-watch the episode)...

I love his acting, but Daniels is apparently still driving TV execs nuts. Saw he tweeted about the 3rd season renewal earlier this week, preempting HBO's announcement.

[SlimKibbles]

...Also anyone that likes Homeland I'd recommend checking out Sleeper Cell. It's basically the inverse of Homeland but was on Showtime probably close to 10 years ago (came out a bit after 9/11) but it's a CIA agent that infiltrates a Sleeper Cell in the U.S. Haven't seen it since it premiered but it was absolutely great back then. If memory serves it also had a rather underwhelming second season too. ...

I really liked Sleeper Cell. Disappointed they cancelled that show after two seasons (2005-06). The story was unfinished. Had a good cast in it too with Michael Ealy and Oded Fehr.

[Milhouse]

Agreed, and I'm very happy that he did. Newsroom is by no means Sorkin's best work, but I love the cast and it fills the void that existed for his style of writing. Plus I get to see Olivia Munn and listen to Emily Mortimer on a weekly basis (twice if I re-watch the episode)...

I love his acting, but Daniels is apparently still driving TV execs nuts. Saw he tweeted about the 3rd season renewal earlier this week, preempting HBO's announcement.

Pretty much just confirming that Daniels is Will McAvoy


I really liked Sleeper Cell. Disappointed they cancelled that show after two seasons (2005-06). The story was unfinished. Had a good cast in it too with Michael Ealy and Oded Fehr.

Yep a great show that seems to have really been forgotten as time went on. Was probably head of its time as showtime didn't start getting known for its content til Dexter/Californication rolled around probably the next year or so.

[GuyFawkes38]

I think the best, most satisfied I've ever felt watching a television series finale was after Lost. Not because it was good; it most certainly wasn't. But I had never seen the show before the finale, and only watched it because I was stuck in Chicago at a house of friends who were obsessed with the show. When I realized that they had just wasted the last several years for THAT, I found it pretty hilarious. It also made me so proud of myself for not getting invested in a show that I probably would have watched at some point. If we find out Walter's actually been dead the whole time...

That's an interesting point that I sometimes think about. My favorite TV show of all time is The Office. But when I look at the show objectively, I have to admit that it's not close to being one of the greatest TV shows of all time. I'm not sure if it would be a top 50 or 100 show. There are substantial sections of The Office which are awful. But even though I can't explain it, there is no doubt in my mind that The Office is my favorite show. It's a gut thing.

I get a bit annoyed when people constantly say that you have to watch The Wire. If you like crime procedurals, you will like The Wire. If you don't, you probably won't like it. Yes, The Wire is a much better show than The Office. But I like work comedies more than crime procedurals. The Wire is not my thing.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I get a bit annoyed when people constantly say that you have to watch The Wire.

I'm a little confused about your feelings on people telling you to watch The Wire or saying its one of the best tv shows ever. Please explain. I kid, I kid.

Hell, if I actually thought about which tv show I actually watch more than any other, which could be a gauge for determining a favorite show, mine would probably be Diners, Drive Ins and Dives. I don't know why...but I can watch that show for hours. I can re-watch episodes too. Its also nice to visit some of the restaurants he's been to when traveling. I hit Kuma's Corner in Chicago after seeing it on DDD. Burgers were awesome. Also went to Big Bob Gibson's BBQ in Decatur, Illinois. Again, great food.

[waggy]

Used to watch Fieri quite a bit. He's one of the few in food tv that had (even average) comedic timing.


Breaking Bread.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Used to watch Fieri quite a bit. He's one of the few in food tv that had (even average) comedic timing.


Breaking Bread.


Well played keeping it on topic. I like Fieri because he doesn't come off as a pretentious, snobby chef. I've seen some scathing reviews of some of his new restaurants. The guy isn't an Iron Chef, won James Beard awards or has Michelin stars...he's a dude who won Next Food Network Star and has clearly found his niche. He's never pretended to be otherwise.

[PMI]

That's an interesting point that I sometimes think about. My favorite TV show of all time is The Office. But when I look at the show objectively, I have to admit that it's not close to being one of the greatest TV shows of all time. I'm not sure if it would be a top 50 or 100 show. There are substantial sections of The Office which are awful. But even though I can't explain it, there is no doubt in my mind that The Office is my favorite show. It's a gut thing.

I get a bit annoyed when people constantly say that you have to watch The Wire. If you like crime procedurals, you will like The Wire. If you don't, you probably won't like it. Yes, The Wire is a much better show than The Office. But I like work comedies more than crime procedurals. The Wire is not my thing.

I see what you're saying, but I think you might have missed what I was saying. Lots was not my favorite finale because it was my favorite show. I never watched the show. It was my favorite finale because it amused me seeing how pissed off it made all the die hard Lost fans I watched it with. It's still the only episode I ever sat through of the show. The amount of deflation that finale caused across the country was easy to feel.

[DC Muskie]

That was the best episode of television I have ever seen.

How on earth do they top that? And do it with three more episodes?

[GuyFawkes38]

I honestly feel crushed after that episode. Ugh. I am pissed. It's a credit to the show that it's bringing out these emotions. This is a great show. But it's far from my favorite. I'm not enjoying this. Maybe I'm too old fashioned.

PMI, I have a bad habit of reading posts way too quickly and not understanding them.

[Jumpy]

Last I heard, they are still in firing line formation, having yet to hit anyone with their bottomless clips. Still.

At this point in the game, I desperately hope Hank survives and finds a way to bring Walt down. If Hank doesn't make it and Walt walks, it very well may ruin television for me.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Last I heard, they are still in firing line formation, having yet to hit anyone with their bottomless clips. Still.

At this point in the game, I desperately hope Hank survives and finds a way to bring Walt down. If Hank doesn't make it and Walt walks, it very well may ruin television for me.

I cant see Hank (or Gomez) surviving. I think Jesse survives but the Nazis force him and Walt to cook again. It's looking pretty likely that giant gun Walt had in the flash forward is for the Nazis.

[DC Muskie]

I cant see Hank (or Gomez) surviving. I think Jesse survives but the Nazis force him and Walt to cook again. It's looking pretty likely that giant gun Walt had in the flash forward is for the Nazis.

My guess as well. The nazis won't let him out of cooking and those guns are for them.

[SlimKibbles]

Last I heard, they are still in firing line formation, having yet to hit anyone with their bottomless clips. Still.

At this point in the game, I desperately hope Hank survives and finds a way to bring Walt down. If Hank doesn't make it and Walt walks, it very well may ruin television for me.

Stormtrooper accuracy!

[Jumpy]

I cant see Hank (or Gomez) surviving. I think Jesse survives but the Nazis force him and Walt to cook again. It's looking pretty likely that giant gun Walt had in the flash forward is for the Nazis.


My guess as well. The nazis won't let him out of cooking and those guns are for them.

Yeah, that's what I fear and I don't know if I can stomache it. I want to see Hank win.

[bobbiemcgee]

For cops and Nazis, these guys are really bad shots.

[XUFan09]

For cops and Nazis, these guys are really bad shots.

I'll give Gomez a little slack, working with a shotgun from moderate range against guys behind cover. What was he doing taking a shotgun out to an open area like that anyway? Well, I guess he did look like a BAMF.

[Xavier]

Yeah, that's what I fear and I don't know if I can stomache it. I want to see Hank win.

I haven't really looked at BB message boards till last night and was shocked to find everyone wanting Hank to win, I really want to see Walt win.

[Jumpy]

I haven't really looked at BB message boards till last night and was shocked to find everyone wanting Hank to win, I really want to see Walt win.

Hank is the only steadfast, loyal, truly honest character I see in this show, other than the kids, of course. I wouldn't mind seeing Walt find a way to get the money to the kids, but if he walked away scott free, it wouldn't sit well with me. That dude has done some rough sh!+ and needs to pay for it.

[Milhouse]

Honestly though they've kinda made Hank out to be rather selfish lately.

It's clear that his only motivation now is to take down Walt. He could care less what that means for Skylar and the kids, he truly has his white whale in his sights and will stop at nothing to get it. His comments about how he doesn't care if Jesse "another junkie" dies also show him as somewhat two-faced. Granted to him he doesn't know all of Jesse's story, all he knows he was Walt's partner really.

The only way I'm happy with the ending is Walt going to rescue Jesse. That almost gives me chills thinking of how satisfying an ending it would be.

I had something come up so I couldn't watch live on Sunday and instead had to watch on DVR last night. But man what a great episode. If anyone didn't think this show was MILES above anything on television right now, then I hope last night's episode convinced them. The anxiety/fear I felt when Hank was talking to Marie, just incredible.

I think Gomey is done for sure.

Hank I don't know. I think he dies but I feel like they could've done that this episode, would've been fitting honestly for him to die thinking he had captured the great heisenberg (sniper shot to the head right after he hangs up the phone).

3 episodes left. I don't see a way that this show does not end up being my favorite of all time. I can't forsee a complete let down of a finale where this happens. Lost was a huge let down but that is entirely different due to type of show it was.

Man I love this show and I will miss it dearly.

[Jumpy]

I see Hank differently. He cares about what happens to the kids for sure. His first concern was to get them to the safety of his house when he first confronted Skylar about Walt. He was even deeply concerned for Skylar until her actions made him suspect that she was in on it.

In fact, his reaction to the whole custody of the kids issue is telling of Hank's character, IMO. His grudging acceptance that the kids would stay with Skylar (as evident in the scene where Marie tried to take the baby forcibly from the white house) is testament to his unwavering pursuit of justice. He knew that, while it may not be right to leave them in harm's way, he couldn't lawfully remove the kids from the house by force and therefore forced Marie to give the baby back.

Hank has one motivation. To see that justice is upheld in his jurisdiction. He can come off cold some times because of it, but it is exactly why I like him.

[Milhouse]

I see Hank differently. He cares about what happens to the kids for sure. His first concern was to get them to the safety of his house when he first confronted Skylar about Walt. He was even deeply concerned for Skylar until her actions made him suspect that she was in on it.

In fact, his reaction to the whole custody of the kids issue is telling of Hank's character, IMO. His grudging acceptance that the kids would stay with Skylar (as evident in the scene where Marie tried to take the baby forcibly from the white house) is testament to his unwavering pursuit of justice. He knew that, while it may not be right to leave them in harm's way, he couldn't lawfully remove the kids from the house by force and therefore forced Marie to give the baby back.

Hank has one motivation. To see that justice is upheld in his jurisdiction. He can come off cold some times because of it, but it is exactly why I like him.

I meant no regard for the kids in terms of he just wants to bring down their father. He doesn't view Walt as a man that has just tried to make ends meet for his family/do whats best to set his family up (granted Walt got away from that a while ago). I mean imagine the kind of damage this will do to Walt JR? That he Dad was a druglord and his uncle was the one to bring him down?

Even through all of this though Walt still has the sense of family/loyalty when he calls off Uncle Jack when he sees Hank is the one with Jesse. Even though he feels deeply betrayed by Jesse he can't bring himself to take down Hank. Watching Walt make the slow walk and get cuffed was incredibly acting. His hubris has finally gotten the best of him.

I'm not cheering for Walt by any means, but I also really didn't want him to get arrested in the last episode. I want Jesse to be able to get out of this alive and live a decent life. He's the character I'm cheering for most as he has been used, abused, and manipulated for nearly 2 years now. I have no doubt that Hank will throw Jesse under the bus if it means taking down Walt, that's why I'm not really rooting for Hank.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm not cheering for Walt by any means, but I also really didn't want him to get arrested in the last episode. I want Jesse to be able to get out of this alive and live a decent life. He's the character I'm cheering for most as he has been used, abused, and manipulated for nearly 2 years now. I have no doubt that Hank will throw Jesse under the bus if it means taking down Walt, that's why I'm not really rooting for Hank.

I'm in the same boat. Jesse is the only character I really want to see "win".

[PMI]

Honestly though they've kinda made Hank out to be rather selfish lately.

It's clear that his only motivation now is to take down Walt. He could care less what that means for Skylar and the kids, he truly has his white whale in his sights and will stop at nothing to get it. His comments about how he doesn't care if Jesse "another junkie" dies also show him as somewhat two-faced. Granted to him he doesn't know all of Jesse's story, all he knows he was Walt's partner really.

The only way I'm happy with the ending is Walt going to rescue Jesse. That almost gives me chills thinking of how satisfying an ending it would be.


I agree with this. Hank has always been a good person, but he's also always been hard-headed and obsessed with catching Heisenberg. He, like seemingly everybody else, used Jesse, and he doesn't care about him at all. I don't so much see Hank as being obsessed with seeing justice served as much as being obsessed with being the one to catch Heisenberg, especially now that he knows who he is. I certainly think he cares about the kids, but if that were his SOLE motivation, he'd have made it his main priority to bring them to safety before going through the process of bringing down Walt.


I see Hank differently. He cares about what happens to the kids for sure. His first concern was to get them to the safety of his house when he first confronted Skylar about Walt. He was even deeply concerned for Skylar until her actions made him suspect that she was in on it.

In fact, his reaction to the whole custody of the kids issue is telling of Hank's character, IMO. His grudging acceptance that the kids would stay with Skylar (as evident in the scene where Marie tried to take the baby forcibly from the white house) is testament to his unwavering pursuit of justice. He knew that, while it may not be right to leave them in harm's way, he couldn't lawfully remove the kids from the house by force and therefore forced Marie to give the baby back.

Hank has one motivation. To see that justice is upheld in his jurisdiction. He can come off cold some times because of it, but it is exactly why I like him.

I think if the kids were the top priority to Hank, he wouldn't have played it the way he did. It seems to be that the one thing that drives him is putting Heisenberg away. He's risked everything to do that. He's got to know that it will destroy Walt Jr. to find out the truth, and that Holly will never know her parents. I believe he cares very much for the kids, but his priority is putting Walt away. Plus, if he were so hell-bent on the unwavering pursuit of justice, he wouldn't have had his history of bending some rules in order to find Heisenberg. The GPS trackers, the times he ignored his orders to back off the case, etc. all show his obsession with catching Heisenberg, regardless of what may be "right" or lawful.

[LA Muskie]

I agree with this. Hank has always been a good person, but he's also always been hard-headed and obsessed with catching Heisenberg. He, like seemingly everybody else, used Jesse, and he doesn't care about him at all. I don't so much see Hank as being obsessed with seeing justice served as much as being obsessed with being the one to catch Heisenberg, especially now that he knows who he is. I certainly think he cares about the kids, but if that were his SOLE motivation, he'd have made it his main priority to bring them to safety before going through the process of bringing down Walt.
I think that's all fair. I would only add that he sees Jesse as a criminal himself (which he is, of course) and is therefore treating him like an informant -- he'll get consideration for his assistance, but he needs to help first.


I think if the kids were the top priority to Hank, he wouldn't have played it the way he did. It seems to be that the one thing that drives him is putting Heisenberg away. He's risked everything to do that. He's got to know that it will destroy Walt Jr. to find out the truth, and that Holly will never know her parents. I believe he cares very much for the kids, but his priority is putting Walt away. Plus, if he were so hell-bent on the unwavering pursuit of justice, he wouldn't have had his history of bending some rules in order to find Heisenberg. The GPS trackers, the times he ignored his orders to back off the case, etc. all show his obsession with catching Heisenberg, regardless of what may be "right" or lawful.
No doubt about it. If I recall correctly, he said something to the effect of "I don't give a F*%^ about family" during his confrontation with Walt in the garage. And I think that was entirely accurate of his mindset, all the way down to his wife (whom he has put in harm's way by continuing his secret investigation instead of arresting Walt and legitimizing the process).

[Milhouse]

I think that's all fair. I would only add that he sees Jesse as a criminal himself (which he is, of course) and is therefore treating him like an informant -- he'll get consideration for his assistance, but he needs to help first.



Pretty much this. Hank doesn't see Jesse the way we (the viewers) see him. Hank hasn't seen all of his ups and downs in this rollercoaster of what? 15 months or so at this point?

Hank all but sealed his fate and bought some time for whatever happens next by saying "I won't be home for a while"

I'd say Dean Norris needs to get the best support emmy next year but can we really turn down Aaron Paul?

Cranston locked up the Oscar a long time ago.

This season needs to finally get the show over the hump and have it win Best Drama Series. It is a travesty that it has lost out to Mad Men 3 times and Homeland once. This show is so much better than Mad Men on almost every single level.

[XUFan09]

Keep in mind that Jesse told Hank *everything* so Hank (accurately) sees Jesse as:

1. A drug addict
2. A meth cooker and drug dealer
3. A murderer

He doesn't appreciate the context of these actions as much as viewers do, and even if he did, he still might not find Jesse to be a worthwhile human being.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[PMI]

I think that's all fair. I would only add that he sees Jesse as a criminal himself (which he is, of course) and is therefore treating him like an informant -- he'll get consideration for his assistance, but he needs to help first.


No doubt about it. If I recall correctly, he said something to the effect of "I don't give a F*%^ about family" during his confrontation with Walt in the garage. And I think that was entirely accurate of his mindset, all the way down to his wife (whom he has put in harm's way by continuing his secret investigation instead of arresting Walt and legitimizing the process).

I thought in the first episode Hank said to Walt, "you don't give a fuck about family," but it was kind of hard to hear because he kind of mumble-grunted it, so I could be off. But regardless, I agree with your points. I wouldn't expect Hank to care about Jesse or see him as the redeemable character the viewers do. He clearly had no problem putting him in harm's way, and like you said, he was harboring a murderer/drug dealer in his home with his wife there, so he isn't covering every base he can to keep her safe either. Hank wants Walt. He's obsessed with it, and I see no lengths he wouldn't go to to accomplish his life mission.

[Milhouse]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/tohajiilee,102110/

Not sure if anyone check's out the AV Club's reviews on BB episodes but this week was a great read. The idea of be careful what you wish for all coming to a head in this episode. Also AV Club great site for anything pop culture related.

[Musketeer_15]

"I think these last three episodes, not to overstate it, and you could say this about the last eight, but with these last three in particular you need to install a seat belt on your sofa, you need to wear a crash helmet and a diaper. [laughs] I tell ya, this next episode, “Ozymandias", I think for my money, is the best episode we ever had or ever will have. It was written by Moira Walley-Beckett and directed by Rian Johnson." ~ Vince Gilligan

I am too excited for tonight's episode!!

[DC Muskie]

I gotta go out and get a helmet!

[GuyFawkes38]

Ok, that was an exciting episode. But I'm not exactly understanding the train of events.

Walt suddenly has a 'come to Jesus' moment and does everything possible to save Hank. That fails. Next he behaves absolutely cruelly to Jesse by ratting him out, admitting that he killed his girlfriend, and consenting to his death. Next he goes home, steels Holly, leaves her at a fire station, decides to disappear for the rest of his life. At this point, why wouldn't Walt decide to turn himself in, admit his crimes, and attempt to repair his relationship with his family.

Has Walt just lost it? After Hank's death, has he completely given up on repairing relationships?

[waggy]

Maybe he's on drugs.

[GuyFawkes38]

It just sort of hit me that I guess there might be some logic behind Walt's behavior. He is concerned that if he does go to jail, the aryan gang will threaten his family to persuade him not to tell the authorities what happened.

So, Walt on the phone with Skyler, takes the blame for Hank's death and disappears, severing his connection with the gang and leaving his family safe.

Maybe...who knows.

[XUFan09]

I don't think it was a "come to Jesus" moment for Walt to try to save Hank. Family is everything for him, and though he didn't want to lose to Hank, he never wanted to see him dead.

As for his treatment of Jesse, I think he blames him for everything, including the situation that led to Hank's death.

That rant over the phone I think Walt gave with the assumption that the police were there, to not only separate his family from the Aryan gang but also to absolve Skylar of any guilt, so the police would just view her as a victim.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[Jumpy]

I don't think it was a "come to Jesus" moment for Walt to try to save Hank. Family is everything for him, and though he didn't want to lose to Hank, he never wanted to see him dead.

As for his treatment of Jesse, I think he blames him for everything, including the situation that led to Hank's death.

That rant over the phone I think Walt gave with the assumption that the police were there, to not only separate his family from the Aryan gang but also to absolve Skylar of any guilt, so the police would just view her as a victim.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

I agree. Walt wanted Hank unharmed because he was family, which is the only thing in the world that he values beside his own ego. When the brotherhood killed Hank, it was a snapping point of sorts for Walt and he absolutely blamed Jesse. He wanted Jesse dead out of revenge at that point.

When I was first watching the phone scene, I thought it was very out of character to be gullible enough to believe the cops weren't on the line. Then I remembered he is two steps ahead of almost everyone and was using that conversation to absolve Skylar of all guilt in the operation. It's also not out of the question that grabbing the baby was part of that plan. He knew an Amber alert would get the cops crawling faster than anything.

For those wondering why Walt didn't just give up the jig, it's because that's not Walt. He's a fighter and he believes he is smarter and faster than everyone. Even the law. He will never give up and feels that as long as he has a sliver of a chance, he will find a way out of any situation.

All in all, it was a very tough episode to watch. I do agree with others that the automatic rifle is meant for the brotherhood, but rather than saving Jesse, Walt is trying to get his money back.

[Milhouse]

Just what an episode. Wow.

Probably one of the greatest hours of television that has ever aired there.

I honestly would've been fine with the series ending there (if they had never had the flashforwards that is). It really more or less wrapped things up but left ambiguity in the air, if they wanted the Sopranos ending that was how to do it, just Walt sailing off in the distance, a completely broken man.

Jumpy, I don't think that he took Holly with the intent to give her back, I'm pretty sure he was latching on to the only family member at that time that had not turned their back on him. We see that he only gives Holly back after she is crying for her mom, showing Walt's change of heart. I also don't think the gun is for his money, it has to be for Jesse. That money don't matter to him at this point he's got 10 million more than enough for the rest of his life. He was willing to give up the full 80 for Hank, can't imagine he's that concerned about the rest of it. Walt needs to salvage the only hint of a "family relationship" he has left, which is Jesse.


Hank had a great great ending there and I could not be happier with how is character went out.

I can't believe we get 2 more episodes after this. Man has it been a wild ride.

[GuyFawkes38]

That rant over the phone I think Walt gave with the assumption that the police were there, to not only separate his family from the Aryan gang but also to absolve Skylar of any guilt, so the police would just view her as a victim.


Absolutely. I can't believe I missed that. Looking back at it, Skyler might have known what he was doing and played along. Their lies continue.



Hank had a great great ending there and I could not be happier with how is character went out.


Yes, sort of a dignified way to go out.

[Milhouse]

Also the bookending of the Lies. We see Walt's first lie to Skylar at the beginning of the episode, and what could very very likely be his last lie to her at the end.

Rian Johnson directed this episode, he's done 4 or 5 episodes before but he is an absolute stud of a director. He's done Brick, Brothers Bloom, and Looper, can't recommend all 3 of them enough. He's a name that will be around for a long long time.

[Jumpy]

Just what an episode. Wow.

Probably one of the greatest hours of television that has ever aired there.

I honestly would've been fine with the series ending there (if they had never had the flashforwards that is). It really more or less wrapped things up but left ambiguity in the air, if they wanted the Sopranos ending that was how to do it, just Walt sailing off in the distance, a completely broken man.

Jumpy, I don't think that he took Holly with the intent to give her back, I'm pretty sure he was latching on to the only family member at that time that had not turned their back on him. We see that he only gives Holly back after she is crying for her mom, showing Walt's change of heart. I also don't think the gun is for his money, it has to be for Jesse. That money don't matter to him at this point he's got 10 million more than enough for the rest of his life. He was willing to give up the full 80 for Hank, can't imagine he's that concerned about the rest of it. Walt needs to salvage the only hint of a "family relationship" he has left, which is Jesse.


Hank had a great great ending there and I could not be happier with how is character went out.

I can't believe we get 2 more episodes after this. Man has it been a wild ride.

The Holly thing I was just throwing out there, just an idea. I don't see the Jesse thing the way that you do, though. At that point, Walt has condemned Jesse to death and written him off. For all he knows, Jesse is long dead even if they took time to torture him. The brotherhood, though, they have offended Walt by killing Hank and taking the majority of his money in the process. If we know one thing about Walt, its that he can't let a personal slight stand. He will go back for revenge and find Jesse alive, quite possibly deciding to rescue him at that point, but his intent in going there won't be to rescue Jesse. It will be to exact revenge.

[Milhouse]

The Holly thing I was just throwing out there, just an idea. I don't see the Jesse thing the way that you do, though. At that point, Walt has condemned Jesse to death and written him off. For all he knows, Jesse is long dead even if they took time to torture him. The brotherhood, though, they have offended Walt by killing Hank and taking the majority of his money in the process. If we know one thing about Walt, its that he can't let a personal slight stand. He will go back for revenge and find Jesse alive, quite possibly deciding to rescue him at that point, but his intent in going there won't be to rescue Jesse. It will be to exact revenge.

I could definitely see this happening now that you lay it out like this. Walt's unfinished business that he mentioned is going to be taking down the Nazi's, if not for the money for Hank's death. I just want to hope/think/pray that the motivation is not money but rather to save Jesse. If he saves Jesse just as a side not I'll be a bit disappointed. Walt has proven time and time again that it is not necessarily about the money though so we will see. I think revenge for Hank might be the most likely scenario unless walt some way/some how gets word that they are holding Jesse hostage.

[LA Muskie]

The first thing I thought after I watched last night was that I had just witnessed history. To me that was the best hour of television the medium has ever seen. (And remember...I'm the guy who said I liked BB but not as much as people told me I was supposed to...) It was just outstanding at every level. Every performance was perfect. The second thing I thought was -- how the hell do they equal (not top -- just equal) that over the course of the next two episodes, because anything less will be a letdown???

As for content of the episode, it seemed fairly obvious to me at the time that Walt knew the cops were there and that he was creating Skylar's alibi so that the rest of his family could live on. I don't think he's thrilled with Skylar, but he doesn't want to leave his kids without a mom. If he has a redeeming quality, it's his inherent love for family.

The tougher questions for me revolve around Jesse and the Aryans. Walk is smart enough to know that Jesse is still alive. If they wanted him dead they would have killed him in the middle of the desert where no one would know and where no one would ever find him. The big question for me was whether Walt was in the frame of mind to recognize and process that at the time -- moments after Hank's death and the devastating reality that, for the first time in years, he had little (if any) control over the situation.

For the most part the episode played out as I expected. I didn't think Hank would (or could, for reality's sake) escape. Except for the confrontation at home. That was just an amazing, heart-wrenching scene. And I never -- never -- expected him to grab Holly and run until they flashed to her in the playpen. I didn't expect to have tears during a Breaking Bad episode. But the scenes with Holly at the end? Just couldn't keep 'em in...

[PMI]

That had to be about the best, most intense episode of television there's ever been. My heart was literally racing the entire time, and I always just thought that was an expression before, as movies and TV have rarely ever done that to me. It was so hard to watch in some ways, but impossible to look away. Six years of an incredible TV drama, and it all crashed together to create one big shit storm that was Sunday's episode. Just amazing. A few thoughts:

*I loved the opening scene flashback to the good old days. Walt is a nerdy, whipped , in-over-his-head chemistry teacher cooking meth with his slack-off, meth-addict former student in a crappy RV out in the desert, while trying to think of an excuse to make to Skylar for being out late. It's amazing to see how badly it's spiraled out of control in the time since.

*Hank went out like the badass hero he was. That was an amazing scene. Seeing Walt crumple to the ground as the Aryan animals just disposed of his brother-in-law like he was nothing was... wow. Walt's shit-storm, after all he's been through, has finally claimed the life of one of his family members.

*I thought it was pretty clear what Walt was doing in calling the house, and upon re-watching it, Cranston's brilliant acting reinforced what I was thinking. He knew the cops were there, he knew what he had to say to make himself look like the monster and Skylar the victim, and, most difficultly, he knew he had to take credit for Hank's death. You could see Walt choking up before uttering, "You're never going to see Hank again." Cranston was incredible in portraying a guy who was basically saying "goodbye forever" to his entire family, and his entire life.

*Walt definitely blames Jesse for Hank's death, and the unravelling of his life. That may not be fair, but Walt's always had trouble taking his share of the responsibility, blaming all the others in his life. I believe that for the first time, Walt legitimately hates Jesse. I think Walt feels betrayed by everyone now, and Jesse's betrayal hurts him the most. All the ups and downs they've been through, I just don't see any way that Walt ever changes his mind and tries to save Jesse. They are going to have a final battle, and one of them will die.

*I haven't decided if I think that Walt knows if Jesse is alive or not. It seems to make enough sense that Walt could figure out that they would use him as a cook rather than kill him, but part of me could also see Walt coming back after them for his money (hence the weapons in the trunk) and maybe inadvertently saving Jesse before having to face him for one final showdown. I could see Jesse killing Walt, and escaping the hell that is his life, as the final scene. In any case, it seems pretty likely to me that they will face off one more time, and I have to believe the Aryans will be out of the picture (AKA dead) before they do. It wouldn't seem right to have Walt's final battle involve a group of scumbags who came to the party this late.

*I believe that some significant time will have elapsed between the end of the last episode and the final two episodes. Obviously, we saw the flash forward to Walt on his 52nd birthday, and I don't know where we were chronologically in the last episode, but I think by next Sunday, we will resume somewhere after everyone's had time to process everything. Walt will have been missing for awhile. Hank will be presumed dead (perhaps his body will be found.) Walt Jr. and Skylar will inevitably be all kinds of fucked up. I think there will need to have been some time for Walt to establish his new identity and whatever plan he's got next. In a sense, I see last week's episode as a true end in so many ways, given that everything has finally crashed and burned for Walt, and he's had to leave his old identity behind. These next two episodes will be the aftermath. The world will have learned of his secrets, and maybe even presume him dead. I wouldn't be surprised to see a montage of news clips, interviews, etc. much like the first scene of season 3 when they showed the coverage of the plane crash. I could see some former students or neighbors talking about how shocked they were to hear that this nice, quiet guy was actually a monster. The gig is up for Walt, but he's obviously got unfinished business to take care of.

*The scene in the house with Walt, Skylar and Walt Jr. was chilling. Seeing Walt Jr. calling the cops after coming to the realization that his dad is who he is summed it all up for me. Walt has lost everything. He no longer has any control anymore, and his only choice is to leave his entire life behind and start over. I really thought Skylar was going to end up stabbed in that fight. There's just a part of me that does not see her living through this. She was always the one warning Walt of the danger he was putting everyone in, so it would seem fitting to me that she would be a victim of that danger, her death serving as a painful reality to Walt that she was right the whole time. But perhaps we're just past the point where that even matters now. I even thought of the outside possibility that Marie kills Skylar, perhaps after finding out more about how she helped Walt. It would help explain that seemingly random scene a few weeks ago where Marie tells her psychologist that she was looking at ways to poison people online. Breaking Bad doesn't just show random scenes for no reason, especially with how valuable its little time left is.

*I'm going to really miss this show, but I am so satisfied that they decided to go out the way they are rather than dragging on even one more season and jumping the shark. The show feels way too real to ever let it get to that point. Some dramas, where people get killed all the time like it's nothing, or where every episode needs some climactic moment, get stale too fast. In Breaking Bad, just about everyone who ever died on screen was someone who was portrayed as a person on the show, rather than just a body. You really feel the humanity in the show, even though there are so many horrible and immoral people in it. I have taken more away from this show than any other, most notably, that I'm never going to start cooking crystal meth.

[Milhouse]

PMI:

That scene with Marie and the therapist I think that was just to show that Marie was afraid for her own life, afraid that walt would try and poison her somehow and that's why she was looking up untraceable poisons.

I think we will see an elapse of time in this next episode. Walt is wherever and something will motivate him to come back. Revenge on the Nazis...not for the money but for killing Hank is my suspicion.

There is also a shot of Walt staring at a bullet hole on the car, the reflection of Walt puts the bullet hole directly on his forehead. Foreshadow perhaps or just Gilligan playing with the audience?

I know how I want it to end, or at least I know how I think I want it to end. With Walt saving Jesse. I have 100% faith in these creators to deliver the ending this show deserves.

I can't even think of any season of television that comes close to this last season (final 8). Seriously every single episode has been INCREDIBLE.

[LA Muskie]

I think Marie is a wildcard. She just found out Walt killed her husband and she knows that Skylar isn't nearly as innocent as the story Walt painted on the phone (among many other things she knows Skylar was involved in the video). Marie was already a bit unstable;I suspect this will make her come completely unglued. I can't say I think she will poison Skylar, but I certainly don't think we've seen or heard the last of her.

I don't think Saul appeared in this week's episode. (If he did it was fleeting.). Especially given confirmation that a "Better Call Saul" spinoff is in development (and almost certainly will air), I expect him to play a huge role in the final two episodes. And I suspect he will do some good to salvage that character.

[PMI]

PMI:

That scene with Marie and the therapist I think that was just to show that Marie was afraid for her own life, afraid that walt would try and poison her somehow and that's why she was looking up untraceable poisons.

I think we will see an elapse of time in this next episode. Walt is wherever and something will motivate him to come back. Revenge on the Nazis...not for the money but for killing Hank is my suspicion.

There is also a shot of Walt staring at a bullet hole on the car, the reflection of Walt puts the bullet hole directly on his forehead. Foreshadow perhaps or just Gilligan playing with the audience?

I know how I want it to end, or at least I know how I think I want it to end. With Walt saving Jesse. I have 100% faith in these creators to deliver the ending this show deserves.

I can't even think of any season of television that comes close to this last season (final 8). Seriously every single episode has been INCREDIBLE.

Initially I thought the Marie/therapist scene was pretty much just that, but no I'm not so sure. It just seems to me that the writers have been way too selective in showing only the most important things in this incredibly convoluted final eight episodes. Every single minute of television has had a point -- it's meant something. To me, the Marie scene will have been too random and unnecessary if it does not come back into play. They could've shown her fear for her life in a much quicker, more subtle way, but they went out of their way to show her with her therapist for a couple of minutes, and she specifically mentioned poison, which has been a subject throughout the show, but never to Marie's knowledge. I don't see Marie ever finding Walt again, so my guess is she kills, or tries to kill Skylar. She sort of "forgave" her last episode, or at least said she'd be there for her during her inevitable tough stretch ahead, but that was before she knew that her husband ended up with a bullet in his head and buried in the desert, in part due to Skylar's lies.

As for Walt's revenge on the Nazi's, I definitely think that is coming. It's been constantly reinforced that Walt is a grudge-holder who will go after anyone who crosses him. The only weaknesses he's shown in that area is with his family and Jesse, and I seriously doubt he will have any sympathy for those scumbags. I am very much rooting for Walt to personally kill every single one of those guys, unless Jesse gets to waste Todd, which would seem fair.


I think Marie is a wildcard. She just found out Walt killed her husband and she knows that Skylar isn't nearly as innocent as the story Walt painted on the phone (among many other things she knows Skylar was involved in the video). Marie was already a bit unstable;I suspect this will make her come completely unglued. I can't say I think she will poison Skylar, but I certainly don't think we've seen or heard the last of her.

I don't think Saul appeared in this week's episode. (If he did it was fleeting.). Especially given confirmation that a "Better Call Saul" spinoff is in development (and almost certainly will air), I expect him to play a huge role in the final two episodes. And I suspect he will do some good to salvage that character.

Saul will definitely play a role. He indirectly played a huge role in this past episode even though he did not appear in it, since Walt went ahead and had his guy take him away and presumably give him a new identity. It seems that the ONLY person left on the planet who Walt could call and use in any way is Saul. Saul is presumably the only one Walt knows who is aware of his impending identity change. Who else could Walt use? I suppose there is that guy who he bought the weapons from, who was first shown in season 2 or 3 I think, and was shown in the first clip of season 5 episode 1 in the bathroom giving Walt the keys. But he's a minor character, and most likely can't help Walt in the way that Saul could. What will be interesting is to see how Saul's character ends up responding to whatever Walt's final requests may be. Will Saul be redeemable in some way, or will he remain the slippery rat that he is? Given the spinoff show that's coming next, I could see him being at the forefront of whatever the final major circumstance will be. Can't wait.

[STL_XUfan]

I could see Jesse killing Walt, and escaping the hell that is his life, as the final scene.

That would be insane considering the original idea was to have jesse killed off in season 1.



Also, don't forget the Saul spinoff could be a prequel. So not even Saul is safe in the last couple episodes.

[Pete Delkus]

I, on the other hand, hope Jesse and Walt have no reunion. I don't want to see pretty wrapping paper around the show – it's what has made the series so exceptional.
I really disliked Skylar throughout the entire series, and it culminated with "I F'ed Ted".
I am shocked that more of the ending story line hasn't revolved around the Mexican cartel, they have seemed to disappear after the twins and end of Gus.
Saul is such a well written character to fit the show, and to play off Walt's character.

[PMI]

I, on the other hand, hope Jesse and Walt have no reunion. I don't want to see pretty wrapping paper around the show – it's what has made the series so exceptional.
I really disliked Skylar throughout the entire series, and it culminated with "I F'ed Ted".
I am shocked that more of the ending story line hasn't revolved around the Mexican cartel, they have seemed to disappear after the twins and end of Gus.
Saul is such a well written character to fit the show, and to play off Walt's character.

My original prediction last year in the first episode was that Walt was buying the firearms because of a threat from the cartel. It's hard to imagine that's what it is for now, because the cartel hasn't even been mentioned this season, but it does seem like a loose end and Gilligan said he didn't want any of those, so who knows. Plus, if the last episodes take place significantly after the last one ended as I think they will, we could see that something with the cartel might have happened in the meantime.

As for a Jesse/Walt reunion, I definitely think they could have it without any pretty wrapping paper around it. Hell, it could be way in the future for all we know, but it's definitely not a far stretch that as long as both of them are still alive, one or both of them might be seeking to find the other. Whether that happens through Walt paying the Nazi's a visit, further down the line, or however, I think the writer's could make it work. I just really see Walt and Jesse crossing paths again, but I've been surprised many times before by this show.

And I wonder about the Saul spinoff. Maybe it's a prequel, maybe it takes place long after the dust has settled, or maybe it's just about Saul Goodman as a character and the whole Breaking Bad story doesn't even carry over. However they do it, I'll give it a chance. I'm not crazy about spinoffs, and I think Breaking Bad's legacy is so damn near perfect that I wouldn't mind seeing it all retired after the season. But I love the Saul Goodman character and if it's done well it could be very entertaining.

[94GRAD]

I want to know what becomes of the lottery ticket, especially since it is where Hank and Gomey are buried.

[Milhouse]

The Saul Goodman spinoff has been confirmed a prequel I'm almost positive. I mean I don't think a post BB saul goodman spinoff would be nearly as good. He's been through a LOT, gotta imagine if he somehow makes it out of this he's going to retire somewhere.

Also Plot Twist: The machine gun is for Marie after she poisons Skylar.

Rian Johnson the director of the last episode confirmed that the dog that crosses the road after Walt gets in the van is symbolism of the stray dog he left behind (Jesse). So we're all but assured they cross paths again.

I can't see Jesse forgiving Walt for everything...Jane...Brock...so I don't think we'll get an ending with Walt with his arm around Jesse and explosions in the background.

I'm just very interested in who that Ricin is for. He's got the Ricin and he's got a 50 calibar machine gun. Two very different ways of dealing with a problem.

Also Rian Johnson director of last week's episode did a commentary on the episode and it can be found on the podcast The Ones Who Knock. If you nerd the hell out about Breaking Bad like me it is quite awesome.

[LA Muskie]

The Saul Goodman spinoff has been confirmed a prequel I'm almost positive.
You are correct sir. This has been confirmed.

[PMI]

Kind of far-fetched, but what if Walt is going back to get the ricin for himself? After he kills the Nazis, and maybe Jesse, and then sets up his money for his family, what else does he have to live for? Maybe he takes Marie's advice and kills himself?

[BBC 08]

Not that far fetched. Read the same theory on Uproxx.

[Musketeer_15]

Aaron Paul tweeted last night that the last two episodes are 75 minutes each! Set DVRs accordingly

[Nigel Tufnel]

Here is a good article on Breaking Bad from Forbes for those who haven't read it....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2013/09/16/why-breaking-bad-is-the-best-show-ever-and-why-that-matters/

I am thinking that the ricin may be for Lydia. It seems like every episode she is in, Gilligan has focused on her always having a drink...be it coffee or tea. Maybe Walt plans to put it in her drink. She is a loose end that he may want to take care of...plus, she has suggested in the past that Walt needs to be taken care of. My other prediction is that Walt comes back because the Nazis kill either Marie, Skylar or Walt Jr. That brings him back for revenge...and to try to get his money back. Jessie told Todd about the admission tape at Hank's house. They may want to tie up any loose ends by taking out Marie and/or Skylar since they both have knowledge about...well, everything.

BJ...I'm not sure if the lottery ticket matters anymore....the ticket had the coordinates to Walt's money....which is no longer there.

[XUFan09]

But Walt's money has been replaced by the bodies of two senior DEA agents.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[Nigel Tufnel]

But Walt's money has been replaced by the bodies of two senior DEA agents.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

True....I just don't know how/if the writers/directors/producers can tie up every loose end. Maybe it plays a role...maybe it doesn't. That's the great part of the show. My dad and I debated tonight for 20 mins about Walt. I blame him for everything...my 67 year old father who was a teacher and school administrator and a strict disciplinarian was defending Walt. That's why its such a good show. To be honest....I was shocked to listen to my father defend a character that I find as despicable as Walt. Again, I'm not saying he was wrong. But the fact that the disciplinarian and his son could have inverted feelings on a character on a tv show is what makes the show so compelling.

[XUFan09]

Yeah, I don't know if they can cover that, but the lottery ticket does give a physical clue. It would take some deduction to figure out that it's coordinates, but they would at least know that Walt had no need for a lottery ticket.

Here's a question for everyone: Why would the Nazis want to keep cooking meth after they've uncovered $70 million?

[eXdrummer]

Here's a question for everyone: Why would the Nazis want to keep cooking meth after they've uncovered $70 million?

I think either: 1) Todd is doing this out of motivation from his apparent infatuation with Lydia and wanting some power of his own, 2) They don't want the already upset Czechs to come after them (Lydia seems to be more concerned about their wrath than Todd's crew, though, so maybe not), or 3) both

[bobbiemcgee]

Walt wins the Lottery with the ticket and it pays.........$70 million.

[XUFan09]

Lol I was thinking that. Who needs money laundering?

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[GuyFawkes38]

Tough episode for Brock and family.

Fitting ending. What's really driving Walt is not his desire to provide for his family's but the Grey Matter feud and humiliation.

[Milhouse]

Tough episode for Brock and family.

Fitting ending. What's really driving Walt is not his desire to provide for his family's but the Grey Matter feud and humiliation.

I don't really agree with this. I could be wrong but more than anything I think the Grey Matter on Charlie Rose was just there to show how relevant/wanted Walter White truly is. Just his association years ago is hurting the business.

I think his family and providing for his family is still his main concern...we saw that with him on the phone with WJ.

The ending of last nights episode mixed with the score was excellent. I cannot wait for this finale. It has been a wild ride and this is the best season of television I have ever seen....and I watched way too much serialized television.

I still feel bad for Walter White. I really dislike that I do, but I do. I think its clear he won't have any redemption with his family, I don't know that he can have any with Jesse. But he can try. Lord knows he will try.

I feel like this may be going the route of The Shield finale for anyone that remembers that.

Good episode but nowhere near as good as last weeks.

Also when Jesse swore I was almost certain he was going to be gunned down ala Mike and Hank. But he survives another episode. I also felt so uneasy with Skylar talking to Todd. Jesse Plemmons has gone all out with this character, seriously for anyone that watched Friday Night Lights it is insane. I wouldn't be surprised if he got an Emmy nod next year along with Dean Norris and Aaron Paul.

[PMI]

I don't really agree with this. I could be wrong but more than anything I think the Grey Matter on Charlie Rose was just there to show how relevant/wanted Walter White truly is. Just his association years ago is hurting the business.

I think his family and providing for his family is still his main concern...we saw that with him on the phone with WJ.

The ending of last nights episode mixed with the score was excellent. I cannot wait for this finale. It has been a wild ride and this is the best season of television I have ever seen....and I watched way too much serialized television.

I still feel bad for Walter White. I really dislike that I do, but I do. I think its clear he won't have any redemption with his family, I don't know that he can have any with Jesse. But he can try. Lord knows he will try.

I feel like this may be going the route of The Shield finale for anyone that remembers that.

Good episode but nowhere near as good as last weeks.

Also when Jesse swore I was almost certain he was going to be gunned down ala Mike and Hank. But he survives another episode. I also felt so uneasy with Skylar talking to Todd. Jesse Plemmons has gone all out with this character, seriously for anyone that watched Friday Night Lights it is insane. I wouldn't be surprised if he got an Emmy nod next year along with Dean Norris and Aaron Paul.

I actually think there might be something more to the Grey Matter angle. I always took that to be one of the most relevant "drivers" of what makes Walt, Walt. Grey Matter represents everything that Walt used to be, a pushover who found himself on the outside of a highly successful company that he co-founded. The company, more so than anything else, symbolizes what an underachiever Walt was, and I think the very thought of it makes him sick. Part of the reason I think Walt seems to go overboard with his pride and ego with his meth business is because he knows the awful feeling of being left in the dust, watching something he helped create grow into a super power without him. Walt's face, when watching Gretchen and Elliot sitting there on television telling the world that he had essentially nothing to do with the company he helped create, showed a lot of the same prideful disgust we've seen before he made some of his worst impulsive decisions. I don't know that I see Walt going after them or anything, but I do think there's a pretty good chance that the disgust he feels about them may be a driving force behind his next move.

[casualfan]

I actually think there might be something more to the Grey Matter angle. I always took that to be one of the most relevant "drivers" of what makes Walt, Walt. Grey Matter represents everything that Walt used to be, a pushover who found himself on the outside of a highly successful company that he co-founded. The company, more so than anything else, symbolizes what an underachiever Walt was, and I think the very thought of it makes him sick. Part of the reason I think Walt seems to go overboard with his pride and ego with his meth business is because he knows the awful feeling of being left in the dust, watching something he helped create grow into a super power without him. Walt's face, when watching Gretchen and Elliot sitting there on television telling the world that he had essentially nothing to do with the company he helped create, showed a lot of the same prideful disgust we've seen before he made some of his worst impulsive decisions. I don't know that I see Walt going after them or anything, but I do think there's a pretty good chance that the disgust he feels about them may be a driving force behind his next move.

My immediate thought when seeing Walt's reaction to seeing them is that we now know who the ricin is for.

[Milhouse]

My immediate thought when seeing Walt's reaction to seeing them is that we now know who the ricin is for.

Wow I had completely forgot about the Ricin. Great Call.

and PMI I can see your side and does make more sense. If the writers wanted to show how relevant walter white is I suppose they could've just shown any 24 hours news channel talking about it, but to have Gretchen and Elliot had to have meant something.

I suppose its just kind of a late development....but granted its not one that could be flushed out until the world knew of Walter White.

[drudy23]

I don't think he kills Gretchen and Elliot...I don't think he "blames" them.

But with so much left to unfold, I don't see how they fit it all into 75 minutes.

What happens to Jesse, Skyler, the money, the ricin, the machine gun, Saul...I just think it's going to be something unexpected that kind of ties everything together because separate endings for each of these things will just take longer than one show.

The whole basis of the story revolved around his cancer....I think it somehow comes back to that.

[GuyFawkes38]

What happens to Jesse, Skyler, the money, the ricin, the machine gun, Saul...I just think it's going to be something unexpected that kind of ties everything together because separate endings for each of these things will just take longer than one show.


This past season, the show has often used the Nazi gang to tie up loose plot ends quickly. Maybe a huge gun fight at the end killing most of the cast (maybe with the gang killing Andrea, Jesse will not have an issue teaming up with Walt, putting them on the same side for one last stand).

I'm expecting the series to end on a poignent flashback. Maybe with Jesse and Walt or Walt with his family before he started cooking.

[Milhouse]

I don't think he kills Gretchen and Elliot...I don't think he "blames" them.

But with so much left to unfold, I don't see how they fit it all into 75 minutes.

What happens to Jesse, Skyler, the money, the ricin, the machine gun, Saul...I just think it's going to be something unexpected that kind of ties everything together because separate endings for each of these things will just take longer than one show.

The whole basis of the story revolved around his cancer....I think it somehow comes back to that.

There is a lot to wrap up but wouldn't be surprised if a lot of blood is shed. I think in terms of the cancer...He must in remission if his hair is back right? Not sure how much more of that we'll see except for maybe a "my cancer is gone".

I think we've seen the last of Saul though. I'll be surprised if he pops up again.

[drudy23]

I think in terms of the cancer...He must in remission if his hair is back right? .

I don't know...having his hair back could simply mean he is no longer getting treatment. Plus, I think the scenes with him at the gate pondering whether he should make the journey into the city says that he knows he's too weak to make the trip. He knows he has to, but he also knows he may never make it there.

I don't know...maybe it's me...but I've never looked at his character as a "bad guy", even when he did bad things. I always saw him as someone making choices out of desperation, even as he became a kingpin. Even as he built his reputation, he was always unsure, scared, and a fake sense of "toughness"...don't really understand all of these "the best bad guy ever" analogies and articles lately.

[GuyFawkes38]

I don't know...maybe it's me...but I've never looked at his character as a "bad guy", even when he did bad things. I always saw him as someone making choices out of desperation, even as he became a kingpin. Even as he built his reputation, he was always unsure, scared, and a fake sense of "toughness"...don't really understand all of these "the best bad guy ever" analogies and articles lately.

Well, the Nazi gang certainly makes Walter look like a saint.

But I don't think Walter is making decisions out of desperation. He might rationalize his acts as a desperate move to provide for his family. But that's absurd. Walter broke bad because he wanted to demonstrate his superiority. He believes that he is above morality.

It reminds me of Crime and Punishment. Raskolnikov doesn't kill and rob an old lady because he has to survive. He killed because he wanted to prove to himself that he operates on a higher level than others. That he's beyond morality.

[PMI]

I could be wrong, but didn't we see Walter getting treatment in his cabin last night when he was about to inject himself and then asked the guy to do it? I don't think it'll go away, personally. That's a loose end I do see them wrapping up.

As for Walt being a bad guy, I don't disagree with the flaws mentioned (being scared, unsure, etc.) but he is still a terrible, terrible person. I mean, the difference between being good and bad comes down to one's actions, does it not? I think everyone has bad thoughts, or imagines what it would be like to do horrible things, but it's a whole different ballgame once you actually go through with them. Walter White's decisions have caused so much bad in the world. At times, he's been downright evil, vengeful, and sick. I do find myself rooting for him more often than not. But he's a bad person.

[Milhouse]

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure you still do chemo for 2-3 months after you're in remission. Thats kind of how I took last nights showing of walt taking medicine.

[PMI]

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure you still do chemo for 2-3 months after you're in remission. Thats kind of how I took last nights showing of walt taking medicine.

Maybe. I know when my dad did chemo he didn't have to do it but they wanted to do it to be safe. Maybe that's where Walt's at now. In any case, I still don't see them leaving that loose end untied, given how significant a factor it's played in the story.

[Milhouse]

Oh I agree. No way they can't resolve it. In fact I think Gilligan said the reason he wanted a 5th season was to address Walt's Cancer and Hank finding out about Walt. They considered ending it after they plotted the death of Gus in Season 4, but then decided to come back for a 5th season and resolve those issues.

[paulxu]

At times, he's been downright evil, vengeful, and sick. I do find myself rooting for him more often than not. But he's a bad person.

How did the Cleveland Browns find their way into this thread?

[GuyFawkes38]

Definitely agree with this article:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/19/breaking_bad_recap_jesse_is_tortured_by_walt_nazis _vince_gilligan_enough.html

Jesse has been tortured the entire series. It would be nice to see some sort of redemption.

[94GRAD]

Definitely agree with this article:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/19/breaking_bad_recap_jesse_is_tortured_by_walt_nazis _vince_gilligan_enough.html

Jesse has been tortured the entire series. It would be nice to see some sort of redemption.

No chance of doing anything with Andrea now.

[BandAid]

Here's a good article on some of the morals of Breaking Bad: The Theology of Breaking Bad (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/fareforward/2013/09/the-theology-of-breaking-bad/)

[bobbiemcgee]

I think Walt shows up at Nazi HQ with the .50 cal, not sure where the ricin fits in.

[Lloyd Braun]

I think Walt shows up at Nazi HQ with the .50 cal, not sure where the ricin fits in.

Possibly in Lydia's tea? They made a point of her ordering the sugar substitute with her tea. Real thing or Red Herring?

[bobbiemcgee]

Todd seems to have the "hots' for Lydia. Maybe Walt uses her to get him.

[XUFan09]

I actually think there might be something more to the Grey Matter angle. I always took that to be one of the most relevant "drivers" of what makes Walt, Walt. Grey Matter represents everything that Walt used to be, a pushover who found himself on the outside of a highly successful company that he co-founded. The company, more so than anything else, symbolizes what an underachiever Walt was, and I think the very thought of it makes him sick. Part of the reason I think Walt seems to go overboard with his pride and ego with his meth business is because he knows the awful feeling of being left in the dust, watching something he helped create grow into a super power without him. Walt's face, when watching Gretchen and Elliot sitting there on television telling the world that he had essentially nothing to do with the company he helped create, showed a lot of the same prideful disgust we've seen before he made some of his worst impulsive decisions. I don't know that I see Walt going after them or anything, but I do think there's a pretty good chance that the disgust he feels about them may be a driving force behind his next move.

I'm completely with PMI on this. I remember us discussing Walt's serious resentment at what has happened in his life as a driving force in what he does, more so than his motivation to provide for his family.

[GuyFawkes38]

Possibly in Lydia's tea? They made a point of her ordering the sugar substitute with her tea. Real thing or Red Herring?

Lydia is one character that I don't think Walter has a lot of ill will towards. She's a headcase, but they did have a good professional relationship and made a lot of cash together. Lydia would more likely want to take out Walter.

But who knows. There is no conceivable way for Walter to provide signifcant cash for his family. He seems intent to go out in a blaze of glory and perhaps he will just take out Lydia for the hell of it.

[Milhouse]

I feel like with how much Jesse has been just abused and tortured by the Nazis that they are setting him up for some serious heinous acts against them. The way they killed andrea...or even killing her was unnecessary. I feel like Jesse will justifiably go off the rails on Todd next episode.

[PMI]

Lydia is one character that I don't think Walter has a lot of ill will towards. She's a headcase, but they did have a good professional relationship and made a lot of cash together. Lydia would more likely want to take out Walter.

But who knows. There is no conceivable way for Walter to provide signifcant cash for his family. He seems intent to go out in a blaze of glory and perhaps he will just take out Lydia for the hell of it.

I actually think there's a chance that Walter might be inclined to want to take Lydia out. When she met with Todd last episode, he mentioned to her that he was confident that he put a scare into Skylar and that she wasn't going to talk. But Lydia is an extremely paranoid person by nature. I could see her ordering the murders of Walter's family to tie up any loose ends that are scaring her. If that happens, and Walt finds out she was behind it, he's going after her. I could see him getting to the Nazis, killing them, and learning from Todd before he kills him that she ordered the killings. At that point, he could return home to get the ricin for her. I'm on the side that thinks there is something to all the attention put on her tea over her tenure in the show. It seems they might be going somewhere with that.

[Milhouse]

I actually think there's a chance that Walter might be inclined to want to take Lydia out. When she met with Todd last episode, he mentioned to her that he was confident that he put a scare into Skylar and that she wasn't going to talk. But Lydia is an extremely paranoid person by nature. I could see her ordering the murders of Walter's family to tie up any loose ends that are scaring her. If that happens, and Walt finds out she was behind it, he's going after her. I could see him getting to the Nazis, killing them, and learning from Todd before he kills him that she ordered the killings. At that point, he could return home to get the ricin for her. I'm on the side that thinks there is something to all the attention put on her tea over her tenure in the show. It seems they might be going somewhere with that.

This all seems possible, but that's also a LOT to happen in the last episode. But we've seen this show do so much in one episode so it could happen.

[PMI]

This all seems possible, but that's also a LOT to happen in the last episode. But we've seen this show do so much in one episode so it could happen.

Yea I agree. I think it's safe to assume they're going to be cramming a ton of material into the 75 minutes they've got. Where they go with it is anybody's guess.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yes, true. if Walter finds out that Lydia is still connected to the Nazi gang and threatened his family, he will pounce.


Yea I agree. I think it's safe to assume they're going to be cramming a ton of material into the 75 minutes they've got. Where they go with it is anybody's guess.

I hope there's a lot of cramming so there's some resolution. I do not want a Sopranos repeat.

[Milhouse]

Yes, true. if Walter finds out that Lydia is still connected to the Nazi gang and threatened his family, he will pounce.



I hope there's a lot of cramming so there's some resolution. I do not want a Sopranos repeat.

If they were going to do The Sporanos they could've just ended it on either of the last two episodes. Gilligan has something else up his sleeve.

[Milhouse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djaLf6bgFuU

Amazing watch for anyone that has seen this tribute yet.

[XUFan09]

Awesome video, except it doesn't include Hank's death.

[Milhouse]

Awesome video, except it doesn't include Hank's death.

It's only through part 1 of season 5. The guy is planning to do an updated one after the finale this weekend.

[XUFan09]

It's only through part 1 of season 5. The guy is planning to do an updated one after the finale this weekend.

Cool.

[BBC 08]

I figure this is a good place to do this. What does everyone think will be the fate of the characters? Here are my thoughts.

Walter - die (nazis)
Skylar - lives
Jesse - lives
Marie - lives
Flynn - lives
Saul - lives
Todd - dies (Walter)
Uncle Jack - dies (Walter)
Lydia - dies (ricin)
Brock - lives
Vacuum guy - lives
Elliot and Gretchen - lives
Holly White - lives
Huell - lives
Skinny Pete - lives
Badger - lives

[BandAid]

I figure this is a good place to do this. What does everyone think will be the fate of the characters? Here are my thoughts.

Walter - die (nazis)
Skylar - lives
Jesse - lives
Marie - lives
Flynn - lives
Saul - lives
Todd - dies (Walter)
Uncle Jack - dies (Walter)
Lydia - dies (ricin)
Brock - lives
Vacuum guy - lives
Elliot and Gretchen - lives
Holly White - lives
Huell - lives
Skinny Pete - lives
Badger - lives

I have death for all. That way if they survive i'll be surprised.

[DC Muskie]

I have death for all. That way if they survive i'll be surprised.


Same here. Everyone dies.

Although I like the list. Especially putting Skinny Pete and Badger on it!

[Backyard Champ]

I'm not sure how it will happen, but I think that Walt will save Jesse, and give him the chance to kill a few of those that killed Jesse's old gal. Jesse will then kill them, Walt, and then himself as the season ends.

[GuyFawkes38]

Of course, spoiler alert.

That pretty much played out just like we all thought. The amazing thing about Breaking Bad is that even though it is predictable (with flash forwards and other foreshadowing) it's still incredibly tense.

Some poetic justice for Jesse. Jesse finally told Walt no (unlike the Gale episode and many others).

Walt basically won. He secured cash for his family and he went out on his own terms. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I wished for a more bitter ending for Walt. He deserved a worse fate.

Breaking Bad is a show that set out not to glorify and romanticize drugs and violence. This episode shows that it failed at that.

I have mixed feelings. Mostly negative.

[BandAid]

I figure this is a good place to do this. What does everyone think will be the fate of the characters? Here are my thoughts.

Walter - die (nazis)
Skylar - lives
Jesse - lives
Marie - lives
Flynn - lives
Saul - lives
Todd - dies (Walter)
Uncle Jack - dies (Walter)
Lydia - dies (ricin)
Brock - lives
Vacuum guy - lives
Elliot and Gretchen - lives
Holly White - lives
Huell - lives
Skinny Pete - lives
Badger - lives
Pretty damn close!

[Jumpy]

Of course, spoiler alert.

That pretty much played out just like we all thought. The amazing thing about Breaking Bad is that even though it is predictable (with flash forwards and other foreshadowing) it's still incredibly tense.

Some poetic justice for Jesse. Jesse finally told Walt no (unlike the Gale episode and many others).

Walt basically won. He secured cash for his family and he went out on his own terms. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I wished for a more bitter ending for Walt. He deserved a worse fate.

Breaking Bad is a show that set out not to glorify and romanticize drugs and violence. This episode shows that it failed at that.

I have mixed feelings. Mostly negative.

I'm more or less in agreement with this. Walt did "win", but it was a pyrrhic victory in which he lost everything in accomplishing his goal of providing for his kids.

Second to Hank, I thought that Jesse deserved to come out on top the most. That kid was shit upon at every turn. He never had control of any situation and always seemed to come out with the raw end of every deal. To see him finally take ownership of the situation at the end and kill Todd while allowing Walt to live was a fitting ending.

[Milhouse]

Simply AMAZING. Hats off to Mr. Gilligan and staff.

Walt saved Jesse but there was no redemption here, it was the last act of a dying man. Jesse never said thank you, and he didn't have to/shouldn't have, everything that has gone wrong in Jesse's life is a result of Walt.

I guess you could say Walt won...but did he really? He has ruined his name, his reputation, and the lives of his family and extended family. I don't see that as winning. Yes he secured money for his family, but they will never know it was him that gave it to them. I doubt the money is much solace for everything they've been through. Especially months after the fact.

Jesse finally stood up to Walt and said no, he's no longer a pawn in Walt's game.

It really did play out as many of us speculated but as Fawkes said in true BB fashion we know what's going to happen but are still surprised. I never even thought of Walt dying in the lab where he clearly loved his work. Was very happy to see that he finally admitted that to Skylar.

I watch a lot of serialized television. I'll need to let it sit for a few days but I do think this is the best show I've ever seen. And finale wise I think it could be the best finale ever too. Say what you will but it wrapped things up and gave closure. Something that the last 2 big finales (Lost & The Sopranos) did not do.

Once again. Hats off to the cast and crew.

[Milhouse]

The more I think about the ending the more I am glowing.

That shot of Jesse finally free. Not just from the Nazis but free from Heisenberg. Laughing and smiling with tears rolling down his eyes as he speeds away. I can't believe the show was able to end on a happy not for Jesse. I really thought no good things would come for him. That he would die as a result of Walt. Man I couldn't be happier with that.

Seriously Aaron Paul kudos.

Man what a journey it's been.

[PMI]

Simply AMAZING. Hats off to Mr. Gilligan and staff.

Walt saved Jesse but there was no redemption here, it was the last act of a dying man. Jesse never said thank you, and he didn't have to/shouldn't have, everything that has gone wrong in Jesse's life is a result of Walt.

I guess you could say Walt won...but did he really? He has ruined his name, his reputation, and the lives of his family and extended family. I don't see that as winning. Yes he secured money for his family, but they will never know it was him that gave it to them. I doubt the money is much solace for everything they've been through. Especially months after the fact.

Jesse finally stood up to Walt and said no, he's no longer a pawn in Walt's game.

It really did play out as many of us speculated but as Fawkes said in true BB fashion we know what's going to happen but are still surprised. I never even thought of Walt dying in the lab where he clearly loved his work. Was very happy to see that he finally admitted that to Skylar.

I watch a lot of serialized television. I'll need to let it sit for a few days but I do think this is the best show I've ever seen. And finale wise I think it could be the best finale ever too. Say what you will but it wrapped things up and gave closure. Something that the last 2 big finales (Lost & The Sopranos) did not do.

Once again. Hats off to the cast and crew.

I agree that it was an amazing ending to the greatest show I've ever seen. I'm surprised people had negative feelings about a fantastic ending. I have a few different takes though.

I don't agree that everything that's gone wrong in Jesse's life as a result of Walt. Had Walt never come back into Jesse's life, he'd still be a useless junkie at best, and would probably more likely be dead. When Walt first started cooking meth, he naively thought he could simply sit in the lab and cook while Jesse handled all of the dirty work. He did not intend, at first, to be anything more than a chemist who could make quick money for his family before he died. Jesse's stupidity led to the first big problem, with Krazy Eight and his cousin, which irreversibly turned their lives upside down. Jesse became more and more redeemable as Walt sunk in the opposite direction, but I think it's important to remember how it started. I think most of us know the feeling of making a bad decision and justifying it (not as bad as cooking meth, but still.) Walt's bad decision blew up in his face from the get go, and there was no turning back.

As for Walt winning, I think he accomplished the one goal that he had made clear that he wanted to this season. It wasn't all for nothing. He certainly fucked up his whole world, and the worlds of those close to him, but he was able to spend his last time on earth tying up loose ends, and ultimately, setting his children up, financially, for the rest of their lives. It certainly won't make up for the destruction he put them through, but I don't think you can ignore the fact that they'll never have to want for anything that money can buy. Perhaps Holly, having been just a baby, has the best chance to end up normal, and that money will help her have a better life.

I love how Walt died in the lab. Two things came to mind at the very end for me. First off, the conversation he had with Gale when they first met at Gus' lab, when Gale talked about how he didn't like all the politics or paper work or whatever it was about his old job. He just loved the chemistry. "It's still magic." Walt's expression clearly showed that he agreed, and that Gale was a guy who gets it in that regard. Walt loved the chemistry. It was his passion. That may have been easy to forget along the way, but Walt was at his best when he was in the lab working with magic. I think it brought him some peace to go out in the lab. The second thing that came to mind was the final scene of the episode Crawl Space toward the end of season 4. Looking back now, that final shot of Walt lying down laughing as the camera drifted upward from him, was foreshadowing. The shot is so great and poetic in so many ways, and I love how they ended the show with a very similar one of Walt's dead body.

I love how the show had the balls to actually END. I don't understand how so many producers/creators/writers of shows like The Sopranos, Lost, Dexter, etc. think it's such a great idea to leave the audience wondering at the end, or squirrel out of making the decision on a finality of their story. Breaking Bad took us on an incredible ride for six years, and they showed us how it wrapped up. Walter's story ended and we weren't left hanging. I think that's outstanding. Yes, we can wonder what happens to some of the other characters, like Jesse and the family, but I think even with them, they really showed us signs of where they were heading. Jesse's dream/hallucination at the lab of him in he wood shop, I think was more a foreshadowing of the decent life he finally gets once he's free from the hell he's been through. It was made pretty clear that the Schwartz's are going to make sure the kids get their money. It was made clear that Marie was going to get to give Hank a proper burial. We even have the hope that Walt Jr. will learn from his mother that his father did not, in fact, kill his uncle. Walt was able to tie things up. In the episode where he's waiting on his treatment and the young man with cancer is talking to him about losing control, and Walt responds along the lines of, "I know one day I'm going to die, but until then, I am in control," was also a foreshadowing. Walt, through his genius, managed to be in control of everything in his final days. That's why I feel like he did win. He had already lost two years ago, but now he's won. He did it for himself. He was alive for the last two years of his life, finally. The great Heisenberg went out in a fitting way.

[LA Muskie]

I thought it was a perfect conclusion to an outstanding series. Walt certainly didn't win -- he died a broke and broken; infamous and family-less. Bad broke him.

[GuyFawkes38]

I want to like the finale. But I can't.

Walt's triumphant end (and it was triumphant) is frusterating to me. The past few episodes have shown that Walt is finally in over is head. That he is does not have the brains or the strength to get out of the situation he put himself in.

Out of nowhere, Walt executes his plan with ease. It's a plan that, in real life, would be absurdly difficult to pull off and probably wouldn't work. In a couple hours Walt is able to build a machine gun device that works brilliantly. He is able to somehow package the ricin flawlessly. This is not realistic.

The entire use of the Nazi gang feels false to me. The Nazi gang is used as a device to make Walt more likable. Lets have Walt kill some thugs more awful than him to get the viewers on his side again. ugh. What a cop out.

[PMI]

I thought it was a perfect conclusion to an outstanding series. Walt certainly didn't win -- he died a broke and broken; infamous and family-less. Bad broke him.

Walt's original goal was to provide money for his family after he died. The goal eventually became to ensure that his decisions would not go all for naught. He accomplished those goals, along with all the other ones he made along the way (killing the nazis, Lydia, and eventually, freeing Jesse, which I believe he decided on the spot at the end.) Then, he died in a place of peace, in a way, on his own terms. Bad had broken him long ago, and throughout the course of the show. But he certainly won in the end. He went out about as well as he could've, given the circumstances.

[PMI]

I want to like the finale. But I can't.

Walt's triumphant end (and it was triumphant) is frusterating to me. The past few episodes have shown that Walt is finally in over is head. That he is does not have the brains or the strength to get out of the situation he put himself in.

Out of nowhere, Walt executes his plan with ease. It's a plan that, in real life, would be absurdly difficult to pull off and probably wouldn't work. In a couple hours Walt is able to build a machine gun device that works brilliantly. He is able to somehow package the ricin flawlessly. This is not realistic.

The entire use of the Nazi gang feels false to me. The Nazi gang is used as a device to make Walt more likable. Lets have Walt kill some some people more awful than him to the view on his side again. ugh. What a cop out.

Every time Walt has ever been in over his head, he uses his genius to find a way out of it. He truly is always, ultimately, in control, until the day he dies. I don't think it's unrealistic that he poisoned Lydia, given how he did it. His attention to detail paid off. The machine gun worked perfectly, yes, but we knew Walt had a guy for buying powerful weapons. Walt has executed complex plans before, like when he poisoned Brock and killed Gus. It's what he does. I don't see how it's a cop out at all. How would you have liked it to end? This was not the story of a dummy in over his head. This was a criminal mastermind.

[GuyFawkes38]

Every time Walt has ever been in over his head, he uses his genius to find a way out of it. He truly is always, ultimately, in control, until the day he dies. I don't think it's unrealistic that he poisoned Lydia, given how he did it. His attention to detail paid off. The machine gun worked perfectly, yes, but we knew Walt had a guy for buying powerful weapons. Walt has executed complex plans before, like when he poisoned Brock and killed Gus. It's what he does. I don't see how it's a cop out at all. How would you have liked it to end? This was not the story of a dummy in over his head. This was a criminal mastermind.


For a show that set out to not glorify violence, that is exactly what happened. Walt transforms into John Wayne and saves the day. ugh. Just like a cheap western, the bad guys, the Nazi's, are an absurd, implausible group.

A more appropriate ending. Walt does not go out like John Wayne. Walt's behavior finally catches up with him. The Nazi gang hurts his family. Walt is not able to provide the cash to his family. ect...

[Milhouse]

I want to like the finale. But I can't.

Walt's triumphant end (and it was triumphant) is frusterating to me. The past few episodes have shown that Walt is finally in over is head. That he is does not have the brains or the strength to get out of the situation he put himself in.


But he's able to muster enough strength and brains for one last go. We see this when he's attempting to steal the truck, he can't get it going and looks to be doomed and then out of the sky the keys fall in his lap. This is his one last drive, and he's going to give it everything he's got.




Out of nowhere, Walt executes his plan with ease. It's a plan that, in real life, would be absurdly difficult to pull off and probably wouldn't work. In a couple hours Walt is able to build a machine gun device that works brilliantly. He is able to somehow package the ricin flawlessly. This is not realistic.


I mean not realistic? I don't think this is asking for anymore suspension of disbelief than the rest of the show...did you have a problem with Walt jump starting a car in the middle of the desert when the battery died? Or how about when he was tied to the radiator and was able to melt off his bands? Unlike those two times (and countless others) Walt had the time and money to purchase his tools. It's not like built the syntery torrent out of items he found in his cabin....

Also I mean I think the Ricin was clearly packaged before he even showed up...he didn't do that on the spot.

At some point with all works of fiction you're going to have to buy in with suspension of disbelief. I don't think this episode is any different than the others. In fact I think the fact that Walt has done similar things before just goes to further the point that he CAN do this. He's that smart and that skilled.

Just saying "that's not realistic" isn't really a point of criticism...



The entire use of the Nazi gang feels false to me. The Nazi gang is used as a device to make Walt more likable. Lets have Walt kill some thugs more awful than him to get the viewers on his side again. ugh. What a cop out.

But haven't all of the Villains/Big Bads been more awful than Walt when he was faced against them? Crazy 8, Tuco, The Twins, Gus, and now the Nazis? It strictly is just elevation which makes sense that the villians would be bigger and badder as the story develops and Walt gets more entrenched in this horrific life.

[Milhouse]

For a show that set out to not glorify violence, that is exactly what happened. Walt transforms into John Wayne and saves the day. ugh.

A more appropriate ending. Walt does not go out like John Wayne. Walt's behavior finally catches up with him. The Nazi gang hurts his family. Walt is not able to provide the cash to his family. ect...

I don't get how this is "glorifying" violence? It really wasn't overly graphic, lord knows it could have been. When knew it would end with death.

Walt's behavior did catch up to him. He died as a result of his crimes...I mean clearly he was the only one to blame for his death.

[Milhouse]

It's not that I don't think it's open to criticism because it obviously is but I just can't really understand your reasoning behind it...I don't know maybe its only me...

[GuyFawkes38]

I definitley might be overreating. I love the show. The last episode was a lot of fun.

But I just wished it ended differently. I was hoping that with the experience he went through, Walt would have some sort of painful realization of the harm he caused the people around him. Instead, Walt is able to set everything as right as possible and go out on top.

[casualfan]

I was hoping that with the experience he went through, Walt would have some sort of painful realization of the harm he caused the people around him.

Kinda like when he met with Skyler and asked to see his daughter one more time before he went off to his death and then saw his son on his way out and wasn't able to say goodbye?

[LA Muskie]

Walt's original goal was to provide money for his family after he died. The goal eventually became to ensure that his decisions would not go all for naught. He accomplished those goals, along with all the other ones he made along the way (killing the nazis, Lydia, and eventually, freeing Jesse, which I believe he decided on the spot at the end.) Then, he died in a place of peace, in a way, on his own terms. Bad had broken him long ago, and throughout the course of the show. But he certainly won in the end. He went out about as well as he could've, given the circumstances.
If you allow the definition of "win" to evolve across the course of the show, then sure. He won. He won by dying as well as he could die. Few people would see that as a win.

As for the money, he left $9 million to his family (assuming it makes its way to them -- although I think it will). The cost? His family, his life, his reputation, and $70mm. Again, I think few people would see that as a win. I certainly don't.

[GuyFawkes38]

Kinda like when he met with Skyler and asked to see his daughter one more time before he went off to his death and then saw his son on his way out and wasn't able to say goodbye?

That would have been a great way to end their relationship. But instead, Walt is able to come clean to Skyler and say goodbye to his daughter.

[Milhouse]

Kinda like when he met with Skyler and asked to see his daughter one more time before he went off to his death and then saw his son on his way out and wasn't able to say goodbye?

Pretty much this. It wasn't a happy ending for Walter. And it shouldn't have been. He destroyed his family. His family will never know that the money they receive is from him. He gets no credit. Nothing.

He's seen the realization in the harm he's caused people. He heard in Walter Jr's voice. He saw it when Skylar grabbed the knife. He saw it in Jesse's face.

I'd say it's a happy ending for the viewers but I would never say that for Walter. If you said you wanted to see the Nazis take his family and such...maybe you're upset about how people are reacting to the ending? Or you wish that he had ended poorly for his family or for Jesse?

[PMI]

For a show that set out to not glorify violence, that is exactly what happened. Walt transforms into John Wayne and saves the day. ugh. Just like a cheap western, the bad guys, the Nazi's, are an absurd, implausible group.

A more appropriate ending. Walt does not go out like John Wayne. Walt's behavior finally catches up with him. The Nazi gang hurts his family. Walt is not able to provide the cash to his family. ect...

Vince Gilligan specifically said years ago that the show would be influenced by and have the feel of an old western. He said it was the story of Mr. Chips turning into Scar Face. He made good on those promises. I don't see it as the show glorifying violence at all. I think it's been pretty clear throughout the whole show that bad choices have bad consequences. But it was also clear that Walt is very intelligent, and that he will never give up control until the minute he dies. The Nazis were certainly and absurd, implausible group. Walt decided to associate with people like that, and there were consequences. I don't think the show would have been better if Walt had just straight up lost. If he had lost, even worse people would've won. And good people, like Walt Jr. and Holly, would've lost even more. Again, this wasn't the story of a guy in over his head who just went down the toilet. It's the story of a genius, turned criminal master mind, who was going to go down swinging, like Scarface. I believe the show accomplished it's mission, and I thought it ended beautifully.

[Milhouse]

If you allow the definition of "win" to evolve across the course of the show, then sure. He won. He won by dying as well as he could die. Few people would see that as a win.

As for the money, he left $9 million to his family (assuming it makes its way to them -- although I think it will). The cost? His family, his life, his reputation, and $70mm. Again, I think few people would see that as a win. I certainly don't.

I agree I don't think it was a win by any measure. I think it was a best case scenario after everything had gone to hell. I guess what it boils down to is if you told season one walter that he will go out in a blaze of glory but his family will reject him and he will have brought shame to them, all the while being responsible for his brother in laws death, and he will die at the end. But hey his family will be financially secured. I don't think Mr. White would consider that a victory.

But I do think if you explained that to Heisenberg when he's at the cabin in New Hampshire I think he might consider that a win.

So it's a tricky situation and also probably not the best way to describe the events that transpired for Walter Hartwell White.

[LA Muskie]

That would have been a great way to end their relationship. But instead, Walt is able to come clean to Skyler and say goodbye to his daughter.
I think they did that revelation about as well as it could have been done. There was no forgiveness, no redemption. Skylar didn't forgive him. She allowed him a final look and and touch of Holly. But there was no hug or kiss from her. There was no emotion from her at all. And he knew he would get an even worse reception from Finn, so he kept his distance. Walk finally came clean -- to himself and Skylar -- that it was never about family. It was always about him. I don't think he knew it at the time (few do), but he ultimately came to the realization that it was and always was a selfish endeavor.

[Milhouse]

Vince Gilligan specifically said years ago that the show would be influenced by and have the feel of an old western. He said it was the story of Mr. Chips turning into Scar Face. He made good on those promises. I don't see it as the show glorifying violence at all. I think it's been pretty clear throughout the whole show that bad choices have bad consequences. But it was also clear that Walt is very intelligent, and that he will never give up control until the minute he dies. The Nazis were certainly and absurd, implausible group. Walt decided to associate with people like that, and there were consequences. I don't think the show would have been better if Walt had just straight up lost. If he had lost, even worse people would've won. And good people, like Walt Jr. and Holly, would've lost even more. Again, this wasn't the story of a guy in over his head who just went down the toilet. It's the story of a genius, turned criminal master mind, who was going to go down swinging, like Scarface. I believe the show accomplished it's mission, and I thought it ended beautifully.

The thing is though, John Wayne would've walked in guns shooting. Heck even Tony Montana does that. Walt had guns blazing but in a way entirely unique to him. He used his brains which we've seen time and time again. I agree 100% with PMI this show demonstrates that all actions have consequences. Honestly it probably illustrates this better than 95% of television shows I would say.

[PMI]

If you allow the definition of "win" to evolve across the course of the show, then sure. He won. He won by dying as well as he could die. Few people would see that as a win.

As for the money, he left $9 million to his family (assuming it makes its way to them -- although I think it will). The cost? His family, his life, his reputation, and $70mm. Again, I think few people would see that as a win. I certainly don't.

But I think if you look at the goals he set out to accomplish rather than all the details, he did that. The show was about a guy who was going to die. You knew in the first episode that this guy's days were numbered, and he wanted to leave his family money. He lost everything due to the bad choices he made, and he obviously couldn't undo those choices. But he could still salvage the original goal. It wasn't all for nothing. His kids are going to be millionaires. He was still in control until the end. The last two years of Walter's life were not happy. It was not a happy show. I wouldn't say he died a happy man by any stretch. But he accomplished a final victory be achieving the one goal he set out to do. As he said to Skylar, he did it all for himself. He LIVED. His selfishness and awful decisions ruined everything. But, after all of it, and excluding all of it, he went out the best way he could, and he accomplished what he needed to to die with some glimmer of peace. Again, he had already lost. Long ago. But in last night's episode, he undoubtably won.

[GoMuskies]

Once the police knew he was in town, I don't think Walt would have been able to get within a thousand yards of the family apartment. That was the only thing I found completely absurd about the finale. I mean, the remote control machine gun was obviously absurd and over the top, but that kind of went with the theme of the show (robbing a railcar of methylene, huge magnet to destroy computer in evidence room, stealing a drum of methylene initially, suicide bombing in the nursing home, etc. and never getting caught).

[GuyFawkes38]

Is there a Walter White/Jesus Christ connection:
http://freebeacon.com/blog/walter-white-jesus-christ-superstar/

[Milhouse]

But I think if you look at the goals he set out to accomplish rather than all the details, he did that. The show was about a guy who was going to die. You knew in the first episode that this guy's days were numbered, and he wanted to leave his family money. He lost everything due to the bad choices he made, and he obviously couldn't undo those choices. But he could still salvage the original goal. It wasn't all for nothing. His kids are going to be millionaires. He was still in control until the end. The last two years of Walter's life were not happy. It was not a happy show. I wouldn't say he died a happy man by any stretch. But he accomplished a final victory be achieving the one goal he set out to do. As he said to Skylar, he did it all for himself. He LIVED. His selfishness and awful decisions ruined everything. But, after all of it, and excluding all of it, he went out the best way he could, and he accomplished what he needed to to die with some glimmer of peace. Again, he had already lost. Long ago. But in last night's episode, he undoubtably won.

As I said earlier I think it's just iffy using win or lose when referring to everything that happened.

What I do agree with is that he went out on his own terms. No one forced his hand, and he accomplished his final goals: Getting the money to the family, killing lydia, saying good bye to skylar and coming clean that he did it for selfish reasons, saving Jesse, and killing the Nazis (to protect his family).

[GuyFawkes38]

As usual, I feel guilty critisizing the show.

I'm sad it's over. Just awesome stuff. One of the greatest shows of all time.

[Milhouse]

Once the police knew he was in town, I don't think Walt would have been able to get within a thousand yards of the family apartment. That was the only thing I found completely absurd about the finale. I mean, the remote control machine gun was obviously absurd and over the top, but that kind of went with the theme of the show (robbing a railcar of methylene, huge magnet to destroy computer in evidence room, stealing a drum of methylene initially, suicide bombing in the nursing home, etc. and never getting caught).

I don't disagree and the timing is interesting but I guess we are to assume that he went straight to Skylar's apartment after getting the Ricin? We do see the cops outside when Flynn walks in several minutes later right?

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, the cops were sitting there when Flynn comes in, but given Walt's wanted level (notorious enough to be mentioned on Charlie Rose without further explanation), I expect that place would have been crawling with cops. Not one unmarked car sitting outside where a criminal mastermind would obviously see it.

[Milhouse]

This is my struggle to start off the week (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EEDNA4M/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=076YP9MX4E8FZFRMA1BK&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846)

I want it so badly. Yet I already own Seasons 1-4 on DVD so I don't think I can possible justify it. I'll need to find somewhere else to watch the 2 hour documentary though. Special features sound INCREDIBLE. They literally captured on film Vince Gilligan writing the final scene, and they also have Craston and Paul reading the final episode together (first time they both have read it).

This show is just so good. I'm sure I'll go home tonight watch episode 1 of season 3 of homeland and be incredibly frustrated.

[PMI]

Once the police knew he was in town, I don't think Walt would have been able to get within a thousand yards of the family apartment. That was the only thing I found completely absurd about the finale. I mean, the remote control machine gun was obviously absurd and over the top, but that kind of went with the theme of the show (robbing a railcar of methylene, huge magnet to destroy computer in evidence room, stealing a drum of methylene initially, suicide bombing in the nursing home, etc. and never getting caught).

Yea, I mean, if we look at it literally I'm sure even a mastermind would've been caught awhile ago, but I think the show was about as legit as you could have while still begin great TV. Even if they didn't know he was in town, the police probably would've been all over the house as soon as they found out that the cops in New Hampshire knew he left. But for TV, they did a pretty damned good job of keeping it realistic, without too many flawed loose ends.

[Milhouse]

Vince Gilligan on the ending:


Walt is never going to redeem himself. He’s just too far down the road to damnation. But at least he takes a few steps along that path. And I think more importantly for him than that is the fact that he accomplishes what he set out to accomplish way back in the first episode: He leaves his family just a ton of money. Of course, Walt for years now has been looking through the wrong end of the telescope. … For years now, he thought if he makes his family financially sound — that’s really all he has to do as a man, as a provider, and as a father. They’re going to walk away with just shy of 10 million in cash, because of Walt’s machinations with Gretchen (Jessica Hecht) and Elliott (Adam Godley). But on the other hand, the family emotionally is scarred forever. So it’s a real mixed message at the end. Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished.”

Great Read in EW HERE (http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bad-finale-vince-gilligan/)

[PMI]

Vince Gilligan on the ending:

Walt is never going to redeem himself. He’s just too far down the road to damnation. But at least he takes a few steps along that path. And I think more importantly for him than that is the fact that he accomplishes what he set out to accomplish way back in the first episode: He leaves his family just a ton of money. Of course, Walt for years now has been looking through the wrong end of the telescope. … For years now, he thought if he makes his family financially sound — that’s really all he has to do as a man, as a provider, and as a father. They’re going to walk away with just shy of 10 million in cash, because of Walt’s machinations with Gretchen (Jessica Hecht) and Elliott (Adam Godley). But on the other hand, the family emotionally is scarred forever. So it’s a real mixed message at the end. Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished.”

Great Read in EW HERE (http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bad-finale-vince-gilligan/)

That is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say, far more eloquently. Walt's destroyed everything, but he accomplished a victory, THE victory, at the end. He accomplished what he set out to do, even if it caused far more harm than good. That is kind of the beautiful irony of it.

[RealDeal]

Ok, my first post in this thread. I had never watched the show, but the guys going nuts about it on this board made me curious, so I watched the entire series on Netflix over the last few months and saw this season end in real time. I'm glad I did, it was a great journey. The writing was so good they could teach a class on it, with the different character archetypes playing out their roles for us to enjoy.

Great stuff.

[LA Muskie]

That is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say, far more eloquently. Walt's destroyed everything, but he accomplished a victory, THE victory, at the end. He accomplished what he set out to do, even if it caused far more harm than good. That is kind of the beautiful irony of it.
OK I see what you're saying. I guess what I'm saying is that what Walt THOUGHT was his goal (which he technically achieved in the end) turned out to be a very bittersweet one indeed. Sort of like winning the battle but getting crushed in the war. Like Millhouse (I think) said -- if you had told Walter what the cost of "victory" would be, he almost certainly would not have started down that path.

[PMI]

OK I see what you're saying. I guess what I'm saying is that what Walt THOUGHT was his goal (which he technically achieved in the end) turned out to be a very bittersweet one indeed. Sort of like winning the battle but getting crushed in the war. Like Millhouse (I think) said -- if you had told Walter what the cost of "victory" would be, he almost certainly would not have started down that path.

That's the irony that I loved. If you're looking at it in black and white, no pun intended, then Walt did exactly what he set out to do. But in doing it, he accomplished far more harm than good. He was always warped in his thinking that money would make everything better, so I think in a sense, I think he died with a little peace/satisfaction that he just tied up all his loose ends, left his family money, and got to be in the lab for his final breaths. He knew the day was coming, but until then, he wanted to be in control. I think Walter was as satisfied with how he went out as he could've been, all things considered, and I think that even though he finally realized/admitted that he had been doing it all for himself the whole time, he still always had the illusion that money could solve his family's problems and that he was at least somewhat justified. His pride and ego, I believe, allowed him to die thinking that he had sort of made things right, as much as he could have.

[xudash]

Did this show have a positive or negative impact on the drug culture, assuming a television show can have an impact on such a thing (positive in the sense that it may cause people to reconsider going down the drugs road; negative in the sense that "I can't wait to get my lab set-up)?

[PMI]

Did this show have a positive or negative impact on the drug culture, assuming a television show can have an impact on such a thing (positive in the sense that it may cause people to reconsider going down the drugs road; negative in the sense that "I can't wait to get my lab set-up)?

If you didn't watch the show, and you have some time to watch it, you'd be wise not to read most of these posts and decide for yourself. However, I'm of the belief that the show probably didn't have much of an affect of any kind on the drug culture. I think it takes a certain type of person to get involved in crystal meth, and a world of violent crime, with consequences ranging anywhere from serious jail time to death. I don't think that type of person is going to just watch a TV show and see the light. However, the one person I know who's ever been addicted to crystal meth, and was for years but is clean now, refuses to ever watch the show due to the temptation/reminders of life as an addict.

[GoMuskies]

It certainly didn't make me want to go out and join the "glamorous" life of crystal meth manufacturing and/or distribution.

[paulxu]

I don't think this is asking for anymore suspension of disbelief ...

I'm not quite sure what this means; but I think it's the same thing I do every time I watch the Reds or Bungles.

[Milhouse]

Did this show have a positive or negative impact on the drug culture, assuming a television show can have an impact on such a thing (positive in the sense that it may cause people to reconsider going down the drugs road; negative in the sense that "I can't wait to get my lab set-up)?

It's probably lead to an increase in the # of Meth labs in RVs. I think that's safe to say. Beyond that I do not know....

[PMI]

My uncle is a biochemist and one of his first jobs was as a professor at TCU. This was back in the late 70s or early 80s I believe. Some chemistry grad students at the time got busted cooking crystal meth in the lab there, and received jail time. Apparently they weren't as smart as Walter White, and screwed up by stinking up the whole floor. In any case, I think you have to be a certain kind of person to go that route, whether you watch it on TV or not.

[GoMuskies]

Pretty awful, but I chuckled.

http://i.breakingbadcomicmaker.com/9fbc5.JPG

[94GRAD]

This is my struggle to start off the week (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EEDNA4M/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=076YP9MX4E8FZFRMA1BK&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846)

I want it so badly. Yet I already own Seasons 1-4 on DVD so I don't think I can possible justify it. I'll need to find somewhere else to watch the 2 hour documentary though. Special features sound INCREDIBLE. They literally captured on film Vince Gilligan writing the final scene, and they also have Craston and Paul reading the final episode together (first time they both have read it).

This show is just so good. I'm sure I'll go home tonight watch episode 1 of season 3 of homeland and be incredibly frustrated.


I ordered my copy on friday.

[PMI]

Pretty awful, but I chuckled.

http://i.breakingbadcomicmaker.com/9fbc5.JPG

My favorite theory for how the show ends before last night was that Walter uses the vacuum guy who can set you up with a new life, moves to middle America, and becomes Hal, revealing that the entire series was actually one big prequel to Malcolm in the Middle.

[DC Muskie]

I want to preface this by saying I enjoyed the series finale. But this episode doesn't even make the top ten for me.

It was easily the most formulaic ending I have ever seen. Just a complete check list. It was like I was checking off items to buy in a grocery store. There was no mystery, no surprise, nothing that would at least spark some controversy. Marie got no justice. In fact Marie ended up being a completely uninteresting character for most of the series. I go back to that scene with her shrink. It was pointless. Having her call Skylar and telling her Walt was in town was just to see her one last time. Hank got no justice. In an episode where check lists were the center, that's two HUGE characters that got completely ignored. Well not completely. We did find out where Hank was buried.

And I'm not someone who needs to have things all wrapped up when a series ends.

I'm really surprised people think Walt accomplished getting money to his kids. Who would ever believe that hitmen would make good on a deal with a dead man and kill people who didn't fulfill a request he couldn't enforce? I'm not that smart but when that scene was unfolding I was just thinking, "I'll just wait till you die." That was the strangest turn of events in the show for me.

Also, Nazi's are pretty stupid. Don't check the car fellas! Hey let me go get Jesse to show you I'm not partnering with that Rat, and then I'm going to shoot you in the head!

Jesse kills Todd. Check. Kill Lydia. Check. The only thing I really didn't like was the need to tell us he had poisoned Lydia. She is such a minor character and she had the same or more air time than Marie and Hank. I would have liked to have Walt take himself out with the Nazi's, rather then having him die in the lab. But that's just me. It would have been a nice twists in an episode that provided very little.

There was plenty to like. The moment where he watches his son one last time was great. The taking off of the watch, to the tricking the rich folks PR person to find out where they live. The moment with the daughter. Jesse's drive away was the best.

I'll certainly miss the show. It was a rare treat.

[PMI]

One thing I was hoping to see in the final episode was another cool flashback to old Walt, and maybe some of the other characters. They didn't really have any more time to waste, but it would have been entertaining.

[BandAid]

Ozymandias was the real climax of the show. That episode is where things hit the fan. Several have argued whether or not Walt won or lost. He lost in this episode. Hank was murdered. He lost his family. The money was stolen. Everything after this episode was Walt trying to salvage what was left.

And ultimately all that was left was pride and a sliver of his fortune.

The final two episodes were little more than an epilogue. They were nice, and I enjoyed the conclusion. The only thrill was seeing Jesse get his closure.

[xudash]

So, I just watched it for the first time tonight (repeat of last night's final episode) to see what all the hubbub is about.

Let me just say that I can see why it is Emmy caliber.

I don't like shows that are about drugs and violence and murder, except when the violence and murder involve truly disgusting people being on the mostly dead side. On that note, the set-up in the old Caddy was priceless.

[XUFan09]

What happened to Huell? (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5f24c5785e/huell-s-rules)

[Jumpy]

I want to preface this by saying I enjoyed the series finale. But this episode doesn't even make the top ten for me.

It was easily the most formulaic ending I have ever seen. Just a complete check list. It was like I was checking off items to buy in a grocery store. There was no mystery, no surprise, nothing that would at least spark some controversy. Marie got no justice. In fact Marie ended up being a completely uninteresting character for most of the series. I go back to that scene with her shrink. It was pointless. Having her call Skylar and telling her Walt was in town was just to see her one last time. Hank got no justice. In an episode where check lists were the center, that's two HUGE characters that got completely ignored. Well not completely. We did find out where Hank was buried.

And I'm not someone who needs to have things all wrapped up when a series ends.

I'm really surprised people think Walt accomplished getting money to his kids. Who would ever believe that hitmen would make good on a deal with a dead man and kill people who didn't fulfill a request he couldn't enforce? I'm not that smart but when that scene was unfolding I was just thinking, "I'll just wait till you die." That was the strangest turn of events in the show for me.

Also, Nazi's are pretty stupid. Don't check the car fellas! Hey let me go get Jesse to show you I'm not partnering with that Rat, and then I'm going to shoot you in the head!

Jesse kills Todd. Check. Kill Lydia. Check. The only thing I really didn't like was the need to tell us he had poisoned Lydia. She is such a minor character and she had the same or more air time than Marie and Hank. I would have liked to have Walt take himself out with the Nazi's, rather then having him die in the lab. But that's just me. It would have been a nice twists in an episode that provided very little.

There was plenty to like. The moment where he watches his son one last time was great. The taking off of the watch, to the tricking the rich folks PR person to find out where they live. The moment with the daughter. Jesse's drive away was the best.

I'll certainly miss the show. It was a rare treat.


Ozymandias was the real climax of the show. That episode is where things hit the fan. Several have argued whether or not Walt won or lost. He lost in this episode. Hank was murdered. He lost his family. The money was stolen. Everything after this episode was Walt trying to salvage what was left.

And ultimately all that was left was pride and a sliver of his fortune.

The final two episodes were little more than an epilogue. They were nice, and I enjoyed the conclusion. The only thrill was seeing Jesse get his closure.

I agree with BandAid. The true climax of the show was two episodes ago, Ozymandias. I don't mind that this episode was a bit of a checklist. He had a lot of loose ends to tie up and he did so in an entertaining way. A much better series finale than 99% of the shows before it.

[Milhouse]

I want to preface this by saying I enjoyed the series finale. But this episode doesn't even make the top ten for me.

It was easily the most formulaic ending I have ever seen. Just a complete check list. It was like I was checking off items to buy in a grocery store. There was no mystery, no surprise, nothing that would at least spark some controversy. Marie got no justice. In fact Marie ended up being a completely uninteresting character for most of the series. I go back to that scene with her shrink. It was pointless. Having her call Skylar and telling her Walt was in town was just to see her one last time. Hank got no justice. In an episode where check lists were the center, that's two HUGE characters that got completely ignored. Well not completely. We did find out where Hank was buried.

And I'm not someone who needs to have things all wrapped up when a series ends.

I'm really surprised people think Walt accomplished getting money to his kids. Who would ever believe that hitmen would make good on a deal with a dead man and kill people who didn't fulfill a request he couldn't enforce? I'm not that smart but when that scene was unfolding I was just thinking, "I'll just wait till you die." That was the strangest turn of events in the show for me.

Also, Nazi's are pretty stupid. Don't check the car fellas! Hey let me go get Jesse to show you I'm not partnering with that Rat, and then I'm going to shoot you in the head!

Jesse kills Todd. Check. Kill Lydia. Check. The only thing I really didn't like was the need to tell us he had poisoned Lydia. She is such a minor character and she had the same or more air time than Marie and Hank. I would have liked to have Walt take himself out with the Nazi's, rather then having him die in the lab. But that's just me. It would have been a nice twists in an episode that provided very little.

There was plenty to like. The moment where he watches his son one last time was great. The taking off of the watch, to the tricking the rich folks PR person to find out where they live. The moment with the daughter. Jesse's drive away was the best.

I'll certainly miss the show. It was a rare treat.

I think in terms of the hitman they could've assumed that Walt put up a bounty with someone else that they will die if money is not given to his children. It's pretty clear that Walt has an empire and a vast network of people (appearances anyway) I mean his product is showing up in Europe...so I think the threat is very real and credible in their incredibly frightened minds.

Marie has always been the least developed character along with Walter Jr. I didn't expect that to change in the last season let alone the last episode....

Formulaic? It was somewhat. But no way you thought he was going to use Gretchen and Eliot to launder his drug money to his children. Yes you knew he was going to use the machine gun to kill the nazis. But you probably didn't think he was going to die in the lab...

I just don't understand people thinking this episode was more ridiculous than any other episode in the series. As I've said time and time again this show requires a certain amount of Suspension of Disbelief. If you buy in and can believe that 3 people can steal 1000 gallons of Metholmene from a moving in train in the middle of the day without being caught then I don't understand why you wouldn't believe that nazis wouldn't check the trunk of a former accomplice. You can go back so much in this show and do that. How about when Hank and Tuco got in a gunfight and Walt and Jesse where there? Or when they're in the RV and Hank is right outside it?

My thing is you can poke holes through the show left and right by "not being realistic" but my thing is its not any less realistic than the entire series.

The thing was Gilligan said that it will have a definitive ending. They will not leave anything up for question, so maybe it was formulaic in tying up all lose ends but I wouldn't call it that honestly. To each their own of course. If you look at the episode as a whole I don't know that it cracks my top 5 but the ending was pretty epic, especially the last shot and the playing of Baby Blue. To me there is no better ending to this show.

[PMI]

Per the "hit men," I don't think it's too far-fetched to think that a guy as nerdy as Elliot, who didn't even the guts to hold a knife on Walter, would be afraid of a world of darkness he knows essentially nothing about. You have to assume he's done his homework on his former partner, and knows what he is capable of (prison murders, ruthless violence, etc.) I wouldn't think he'd play tough guy in that situation. Money is nothing to the guy. He has no ill will toward Walt's kids. Why wouldn't he just do what Walt says? On top of that, what better play did Walt have? Even if he couldn't be 100% sure that it would work, it was certainly the best attempt.

Also, per the Nazis, even if they had checked the trunk, Walt could've set the machine gun off then and there. It obviously worked better for the story that he got to go inside and have the final dialogue with them, and then Jesse. I wouldn't overreact too much to that.

Like I said before, if you look hard enough, you'll find holes in any TV show, but overall all, Breaking Bad did a pretty thorough job. The only pointless scene I can think of the whole season was when Marie was at the shrink's office. That was a few minutes of wasted episode time. Perhaps they were just pointing out the poisoning foreshadowing, but that had already been done. We certainly didn't need that scene to show us that she had negative feelings towards Walt. In any case, I don't think formulaic is the right word for the episode. There was nothing formulaic about that series. Walt decided he was going all out with a bang and did. I don't see a sort of check list of final goals as formulaic, especially considering that there were plenty of twists (Gretchen and Elliot, Jesse being freed, his admitting his selfishness to Skylar, his final moments, etc.) Overall, I thought it was pretty damned good and up to snuff with the high expectations the show caused us all to have.

[BBC 08]

Like I said before, if you look hard enough, you'll find holes in any TV show

I think Community is the only show with no holes. Dan Harmon wouldn't allow it.

[Milhouse]

I think Community is the only show with no holes. Dan Harmon wouldn't allow it.

Season 4 was a pretty big hole.

[BBC 08]

Season 4 was a pretty big hole.

Dan Harmon had nothing to do with the show that season. I guess I should have stipulated that the Dan Harmon version of Community has no holes.

[Milhouse]

Dan Harmon had nothing to do with the show that season. I guess I should have stipulated that the Dan Harmon version of Community has no holes.

Yeah but unfortunately it continued without him. Will be interesting to see how Season 5 is. First 3 seasons were pretty great but season 4 was just unwatchable.

I'd love to see a breaking bad type episode this year. Make it happen Dan.

[PMI]

Dan Harmon had nothing to do with the show that season. I guess I should have stipulated that the Dan Harmon version of Community has no holes.

It certainly has an asshole in Joel McHale. I have only watched a few episodes of Community. Not sure which seasons, but it ranged anywhere from very funny to unwatchable.

[waggy]

This is as bad as "Luke and Laura".

[XUFan09]

Concerning the "hitmen," even if Elliot and Gretchen suspected that it was a bluff, do you think they would risk calling it?

- If it's not a bluff, they're dead.
- If it is a bluff, they...were right? I mean, what's the upside for them refusing to pay a couple innocent children of a one-time friend? They don't have to find a way to report $9 million on their taxes, I suppose, but with how much money they have, laundering that wouldn't be the most difficult thing.

So basically, it's an easy decision for them: Get the money to Flynn and just move on.

[DC Muskie]

Here's my response:

I get the suspension of belief. I think stealing the chemicals was more believable because we saw it. It was set up perfectly and the remoteness of it all made the scene work. As for the hitmen, suspend the disbelief that people like that we are insanely rich didn't have better security or at least help at the house to say hello when they got home is less of a big deal then the idea that Walt who will be dead soon, would be able to control their lives from the grave. I guess I am to believe that there are hitmen out there who have the honor in them to fulfill their duty of executing people who don't give the son money. That's just a complete reach for me, sorry. Also everyone knows that any transaction to junior would be investigated by the authorities and how would they explain it when Junior could easily figure out that the money given to him was from his father?

I was fine with Walt failing to get the money to his family like he originally intended.

As for the Nazis, this was a group of people who were able to find weapons and kill other people in like ten minutes. You would think they would be smart enough to maybe check the car for a bomb, especially if they wanted him to park further away. Not a huge deal obviously, but a deal nonetheless. Also, they took Walt's remote key chain, and then in a matter of seconds he recovered it pretty easily. No surprise.

To me the finale was extremely formulaic. Nazi's die first, then Uncle Jack, then Todd, then Lydia, then Walt. If that isn't just a perfect formula of how to tie up loose ends, then I don't know is.

I use The Wire as an example. Omar Little is by far the best character I have ever seen on TV. But no one expected him to die the way he did. That was shocking. Everyone here would have guessed that Lydia would die by poison, Todd would die at the hands of Jesse and Walt may or may not die at the hands of Jesse as well.

Having said all that, I do agree you can pick apart any show for holes. I just want a surprise that is believable and completely out of left field that this show was really, really good at for 60 episodes. As I mentioned I enjoyed the finale, it just lacked suspense and surprise that I was hoping for. Maybe that's my own fault.

[STL_XUfan]

Story Of Small Businessman Struggling Under Obama Administration Draws To Close


As the finale of Breaking Bad draws near, we take a look back at the series that highlighted the heavy toll Barack Obama's policies have taken on entrepreneurs like Walter White.

http://www.theonion.com/video/story-of-small-businessman-struggling-under-obama,34037/

[BBC 08]

You guys need to go read Norm McDonald's twitter feed. Has really interesting theories on the end to the show.