See ya Brad

[BMoreX]

Stevens to the Celtics

[Charlesbt4]

Stevens to the Celtics

If you're Brad Stevens, this very likely will end up being a poor career decision. If you're Butler, what a terrible time at which to lose a head coach.

[GoMuskies]

If you're Brad Stevens, this very likely will end up being a poor career decision. If you're Butler, what a terrible time at which to lose a head coach.

Man, I couldn't disagree more. Take a look at Rick Pitino and John Calipari. Made tons of cash, sucked and came back to plum college jobs. I don't see how Stevens can go wrong here. No matter how awful he is in the NBA he's going to have a fabulous college gig waiting on him when he's ready to come back.

[Charlesbt4]

Stevens was already being offered premier college coaching positions. Why move to the NBA, where the risks of failure are much greater, and honeymoon period even shorter, if you don't need to to get those opportunities? The NBA is not a coaches league.

[PMI]

Well, this sucks for Butler! Maybe we can send them back to the A10 and go with a nice 16 game league schedule.

[PMI]

Stevens was already being offered premier college coaching positions. Why move to the NBA, where the risks of failure are much greater, and honeymoon period even shorter, if you don't need to to get those opportunities? The NBA is not a coaches league.

Because you get paid a whole hell of a lot more than you do at Butler, and after he fails miserably, he can come right back to college and get a major job. Where is the risk?

[BMoreX]

I just don't think he's gonna be successful at the NBA level. We'll see though. Like Go said, he can have any job in NCAA if he decides to leave or gets fired.

That said, this is good news for fans of other Big East teams, bad news for the success/marketing of the Big East as a whole, and a nightmare for Butler.

[PMI]

It's not really a secret that the only way to be a successful NBA coach is to have the NBA talent. There are no Cinderella stories for Brad anymore. Boston is in a serious rebuilding situation, so I expect him to have a poor record in the NBA before going back to college.

[GoMuskies]

It's not really a secret that the only way to be a successful NBA coach is to have the NBA talent. There are no Cinderella stories for Brad anymore. Boston is in a serious rebuilding situation, so I expect him to have a poor record in the NBA before going back to college.

He's Rick Pitino 2.0

[Charlesbt4]

Because you get paid a whole hell of a lot more than you do at Butler, and after he fails miserably, he can come right back to college and get a major job. Where is the risk?

I just replied generally in the other thread.

[xubrew]

Well, who didn't see THAT coming??

I'm totally surprised. It makes sense as far as the money is concerned. If he lasts two years in Boston, he'll probably make more than he would have in five years at Butler. And, failing in the NBA hasn't ever wrecked anyone's college career.

[GoMuskies]

failing in the NBA hasn't ever wrecked anyone's college career.

I'm trying to think of a single case where a hot coach left college for the NBA and didn't get another good opportunity in college after sucking in the NBA. Paul Westhead is the only guy I can think of, but LMU was a gimmick. You're not running that system at Kentucky. Hamilton, Montgomery, Pitino, Calipari, even Tim freaking Floyd. All got good college gigs after bombing.

Ha, just from Westhead's wikipedia saw that he is the women's coach at Oregon now. So he "sort of" got a shot to redeem himself at a major conference gig. Ooh, and his team was 4-27 last year. Ouch.

[XURunner85]

Got to wonder, does Butlet try for Kelsey??? It be good choice but i would hate it.

[GoMuskies]

Got to wonder, does Butlet try for Kelsey??? It be good choice but i would hate it.

Maybe, but I think Big East programs are generally not going to be looking to guys with losing records at Big South schools to fill their head coaching vacancies. Kelsey may turn out great, but he's still got a lot to prove.

[waggy]

Butler has a long history of promoting from within.

[waggy]

At this stage if Collier doesn't want to bring in an outsider and doesn't think he's got someone on the staff that is a good option, he could bring back Lichliter. There's also the option of hiring himself.

[xubrew]

It wouldn't surprise me if Butler already had the replacement lined up. I don't know if they do or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did. They may have known before Stevens officially announced he was leaving.

I don't think it's Pat Kelsey for the reasons GO already mentioned. Nothing against Kelsey, but I don't think he'd be a good choice for them, also for the reasons GO mentioned. There are one or two other coaches in the Big South I'd consider before him at this point.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Got to wonder, does Butlet try for Kelsey??? It be good choice but i would hate it.

No way. Pat has to show some success at Winthrop before he gets any consideration for a Big East job.

[LA Muskie]

I am shocked. Astonished. Didn't see this coming at all. Curious decision for the Celtics and their rabid fans. Probably an offer Brad couldn't refuse.

I don't see Butler hiring Kelsey. But not because of his record at Winthrop. AD's hire young coaches largely on potential, not W/L records.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

It is less of a shock for me to see Brad leaving Butler than to see him hired by the Celtics. I just do not see him as a NBA coach. The pressure to win in Boston might just be too much for him. Butler will definitely be less of a threat to us without him.

[paulxu]

And I thought this was a thread about Redford before opening it up.

Trying to picture Crawford playing for Stevens.

[JTG]

Hmmm...coaching mostly choirboys to coaching nutjobs like Rondo and Crawford. Talk about culture shock. Hell Doc Rivers left because Rondo is a head case.

[LA Muskie]

Hmmm...coaching mostly choirboys to coaching nutjobs like Rondo and Crawford. Talk about culture shock. Hell Doc Rivers left because Rondo is a head case.
I would be shocked if Rondo is still on the Celtics roster next season.

[PMI]

I don't see Butler hiring Kelsey. But not because of his record at Winthrop. AD's hire young coaches largely on potential, not W/L records.

I think it's got to be a combination of both. Yes, AD's search for potential, no doubt. But I'm having a hard time thinking of any coaches at small programs with the type of record Winthrop had who get jobs at a big time program. Potential only takes you so far. There needs to be some results too.

My guess is that Kelsey turns out to be a great coach at Winthrop and eventually gets a better job. But he will not skip any of the steps in between just because we think he's going to be awesome.

[LA Muskie]

I think it's got to be a combination of both. Yes, AD's search for potential, no doubt. But I'm having a hard time thinking of any coaches at small programs with the type of record Winthrop had who get jobs at a big time program. Potential only takes you so far. There needs to be some results too.

My guess is that Kelsey turns out to be a great coach at Winthrop and eventually gets a better job. But he will not skip any of the steps in between just because we think he's going to be awesome.

With a larger sample size, yes I'd agree. But with just one season under his belt I think he'd be evaluated more as a rising assistant/first time head coach. That said, I don't see Butler hiring what would amount to a young, unproven assistant coach from Xavier/Wake. And that's why I don't think it'll be him.

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[XU 87]

Without Stevens, Butler as a program doesn't look so attractive now for the Big East. I suspect they'll fall back to what they were like before Stevens- a nice program but not a national contender.

But what Stevens did at Butler is probably the most remarkable coaching job I've ever seen in college basketball. I thought his first title game was just sort of flukey. But to do two in a row playing out of the Horizon Conference? Incredible.

[LA Muskie]

Without Stevens, Butler as a program doesn't look so attractive now for the Big East. I suspect they'll fall back to what they were like before Stevens- a nice program but not a national contender.

But what Stevens did at Butler is probably the most remarkable coaching job I've ever seen in college basketball. I thought his first title game was just sort of flukey. But to do two in a row playing out of the Horizon Conference? Incredible.

I think Butler is still a middle of the pack Big East team and, with the right hire, should challenge at the top occasionally (but far less frequently). They may not be the program we all thought they would be coming in, but they are still probably better than several other Big East schools and still would be among the top 3 choices to join.

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[XU 87]

I was looking at Butler's incoming recruiting class- three three-star players who mainly had offers from lesser programs. Despite their success, Butler still wasn't getting top recruits. But somehow Stevens could mold these guys into a team that could compete nationally. I doubt their next coach, or just about any coach, will be able to do the same.

I suspect that they'll fall back to where they were when Licklighter was coach- two NCAA's in his 6 years, although they made the Sweet 16 both times.

[bleedXblue]

Strange decision though b/c the college and pro games are so different. I do think Stevens was going to have his pick of just about any college job including Duke.

[XU 87]

It's a low risk move. If he fails, he still will make $22 million and he can always go back to a high profile NCAA job (see Rick Pitino and John Calipari).

[Titanxman04]

I was looking at Butler's incoming recruiting class- three three-star players who mainly had offers from lesser programs. Despite their success, Butler still wasn't getting top recruits. But somehow Stevens could mold these guys into a team that could compete nationally. I doubt their next coach, or just about any coach, will be able to do the same.

I suspect that they'll fall back to where they were when Licklighter was coach- two NCAA's in his 6 years, although they made the Sweet 16 both times.

Stevens was known for using analytics. He may not be getting the best guys, but he seemed to be getting the right ones. I don't care for Butler, but all their guys did the little things that five star athletes just seemed to ignore. Those upsets of top programs over the years were partly or mostly, depending on the situation, benefitted by his guys following through on pick and rolls, boxing out, etc... He picked out players that did all the fundamentals well, and while they didn't have the top verticals or the best techniques, he worked and coached them through everything else. He's a brilliant college coach. We will see how it turns out in the NBA. With the low expectations for the Celtics this year, he has a few years to work with.

[GuyFawkes38]

Man, I couldn't disagree more. Take a look at Rick Pitino and John Calipari. Made tons of cash, sucked and came back to plum college jobs. I don't see how Stevens can go wrong here. No matter how awful he is in the NBA he's going to have a fabulous college gig waiting on him when he's ready to come back.

I do think that Pitinos and Calipari's reputations did take a hit from their failure in the NBA. It's easy to forget that before going to the NBA, Pitino and Calipari were viewed not just as great recruiters, but great basketball minds. Their failure in the NBA tarnished that. And their success back in the NCAA hasn't removed that tarnish. They are just seen as coaches that are able to out recruit other schools. Call me crazy, but several frusterating, losing seasons in the NBA will even diminish Brad Stevens stature.

But your definitely right that top schools would give Stevens a chance after NBA failure.

[LadyMuskie]

I do think that Pitinos and Calipari's reputations did take a hit from their failure in the NBA. It's easy to forget that before going to the NBA, Pitino and Calipari were viewed not just as great recruiters, but great basketball minds. Their failure in the NBA tarnished that. And their success back in the NCAA hasn't removed that tarnish. They are just seen as coaches that are able to out recruit other schools. Call me crazy, but several frusterating, losing seasons in the NBA will even diminish Brad Stevens stature.

But your definitely right that top schools would give Stevens a chance after NBA failure.

I don't know about this. For starters, I think Calipari's rep is tarnished because he cheats every chance he gets. He's a cheater whether he can coach or not. He gets a leg up because he starts way ahead of the rest of the crowd, not because he's some genius of hoops, but because he "works" the system in his favor. That's harder to do in the NBA. Pitino on the other hand is tarnished because of personal doings in restaurant bathrooms and what not. Most people questioned the thinking behind a jump to the NBA, but when they returned to the NCAA, I think most schools would have welcomed them back with open arms (more Pitino than Calipari, maybe). I don't know really anyone who looks at either of these coaches and thinks "tarnished former NBA coach". Cheater and scumbag, yes. Definitely!

I think most people who follow college basketball and/or the NBA would agree that there is a great difference between coaching college ball and babysitting NBA players. Hell, even Phil Jackson, arguably one of the greatest NBA coaches ever, has alluded to that. I don't think the desire to give it a try will tarnish Stevens's rep at all. People may say "what was he thinking", but he'll still be a hot commodity and his NBA failures will be long forgotten if/when he returns to the NCAA.

[LA Muskie]

Seems to me that we have a consensus:

Great opportunity for Brad -- too good financially for him to turn down, with little-to-no downside (except perhaps the possibility of a "stigma" for not making it in the NBA but without any practical effects on him, otherwise).

Interesting choice for the Celtics on its face, but probably a good hire. He is a metrics guy like their front office. He is young, likeable, and new to the NBA -- buying the Celtics (and Brad) the 3-4 years they will need to rebuild.

Butler is in a tough place with no one on the bench to take Brad's place as they enter Big East play. It will be difficult if not impossible for them to replace Stevens. They will take a hit from their expectations entering the Big East, but with the right hire they should be a regular middle-of-the-pack Big East school that competes at the top occasionally. They probably hit their pinnacle under Stevens.

Sound about right?

[xudash]

Seems to me that we have a consensus:

Great opportunity for Brad -- too good financially for him to turn down, with little-to-no downside (except perhaps the possibility of a "stigma" for not making it in the NBA but without any practical effects on him, otherwise).

Interesting choice for the Celtics on its face, but probably a good hire. He is a metrics guy like their front office. He is young, likeable, and new to the NBA -- buying the Celtics (and Brad) the 3-4 years they will need to rebuild.

Butler is in a tough place with no one on the bench to take Brad's place as they enter Big East play. It will be difficult if not impossible for them to replace Stevens. They will take a hit from their expectations entering the Big East, but with the right hire they should be a regular middle-of-the-pack Big East school that competes at the top occasionally. They probably hit their pinnacle under Stevens.

Sound about right?

Sounds about exactly right.

[muskienick]

One wonders if Shaka Smart would take the Butler job if offered at a high enough monetary level. Lord knows he can work magic with recruits that seldom got a serious look from "Big Six-type" programs. That seems to be the formula for success at Butler.