Doug McDermott now a walk-on at Creighton

[Muskie]

Link (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-02/doug-mcdermott-walk-on-creighton-all-american-grant-gibbs-case-sixth-year?modid=recommended_3_5)

Let this delightful absurdity sink in slowly: Creighton coach Greg McDermott will be paying $34,000 for his son Doug, a two-time All-American, to be a senior year walk-on after the NCAA granted Bluejays point guard Grant Gibbs a sixth year of eligibility (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-07-02/grant-gibbs-sixth-year-eligibility-creighton-bluejays-point-guard-doug-mcdermott).
Gibbs rejoining the roster meant that Creighton had one more body than available scholarships, and there was no way that Greg McDermott was going to cut another player’s free ride. So, the Bluejays coach is ponying up.
____________

I realize this probably (technically) kosher under NCAA regs. But no doubt someone will now use this as loophole down the line. (Or they'll go all Danny Manning and just hired the player's dad and then pay dad to fund the scholarship).

[casualfan]

after UCONN got hit with scholarship reducation Andre Drummond played his one season with them as a walk on. I'd be willing to bet he wasn't the one paying that tuition.

[GoMuskies]

I would have thought McDermott would be going to Creighton for free anyway as the son of a school employee. Didn't Adam Simons have free tuition to Xavier because his mother or step-mother worked at an institution that is part of an alliance of schools that trade free tuition for kids of people employed by those universities? It's just that no one cared since Simons sucked at basketball.

[ammtd34]

I would have thought McDermott would be going to Creighton for free anyway as the son of a school employee. Didn't Adam Simons have free tuition to Xavier because his mother or step-mother worked at an institution that is part of an alliance of schools that trade free tuition for kids of people employed by those universities? It's just that no one cared since Simons sucked at basketball.

NCAA rules say that coaches have to be in place for 5 years before any tuition benefits.

[GoMuskies]

That actually makes sense. Of course, Creighton could also just give McDermott a $34,000 bonus.

[Muskie]

Which begs the question. Why would any coach use a scholarship on their own child? Unless there is no advantage to doing so (ie: you can't bring in someone more talented than your child or the scholarship would go unused?).

[blueblob06]

So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?

[Muskie]

So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?

That's right, get on the train! I was beginning to think I was missing something because of the lack of furor (of course if this had been a UD player/Coach this thread would be 10 pages now).

[paulxu]

I bet that kid can set a record for most minutes played in a season by a walk-on.

[GoMuskies]

So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?

Why wouldn't it be allowed? Any parent can pay for their kid to go to school and forego a scholly. Jordan paid for his kid to walk-on at Illinois. Just works out nicely for Dad McDermott in that he gets a job benefit out of it, too. If Adam Simons had been any good, we'd have received the same benefit in that situation.

[LA Muskie]

I would have thought McDermott would be going to Creighton for free anyway as the son of a school employee. Didn't Adam Simons have free tuition to Xavier because his mother or step-mother worked at an institution that is part of an alliance of schools that trade free tuition for kids of people employed by those universities? It's just that no one cared since Simons sucked at basketball.
A non-scholarship player cannot receive ANY grant in aid. No academic scholarships. No employee tuition remission. Nothing. The player is either on scholarship or he must pay full freight. I doubt McDermott is sweating it, though.

[GoMuskies]

A non-scholarship player cannot receive ANY grant in aid. No academic scholarships. No employee tuition remission. Nothing. The player is either on scholarship or he must pay full freight. I doubt McDermott is sweating it, though.

That's certainly not the full story. Non-recruited athletes can certainly be on academic scholarship. My academic scholarship wouldn't have kept me off the basketball team, for example, if I had tried out and made the team. My basketball ability was certainly a limiting factor, though.

And here's what our old friend Dustin Dow wrote about Simons back in the day:

"TRANSFER READY: North Carolina State transfer Adam Simons is expected to begin practicing Monday.

Simons does not currently count against Xavier's scholarship numbers because he's a walk-on.

It's likely he will keep that status next season as well, because Simons' stepmother, Gail Goestenkors, is the women's basketball coach at Duke, which allows Simons to receive tuition assistance to attend another private school."

[LA Muskie]

That's certainly not the full story. Non-recruited athletes can certainly be on academic scholarship. My academic scholarship wouldn't have kept me off the basketball team, for example, if I had tried out and made the team. My basketball ability was certainly a limiting factor, though.

And here's what our old friend Dustin Dow wrote about Simons back in the day:

"TRANSFER READY: North Carolina State transfer Adam Simons is expected to begin practicing Monday.

Simons does not currently count against Xavier's scholarship numbers because he's a walk-on.

It's likely he will keep that status next season as well, because Simons' stepmother, Gail Goestenkors, is the women's basketball coach at Duke, which allows Simons to receive tuition assistance to attend another private school."
That is correct. I didn't get into that nuance because McDermott is clearly a recruited player. But yes -- an unrecruited walk-on can have a grant in aid.

[coasterville95]

So the answer is for schools to simply hire the students parent as a consultant.

Get as many players as roster limits allow.

Nice to see Creighton, already known for suspect officiating and suspect video feeds is now showing off creative ways to cheat.

[GoMuskies]

Having a parent pay his kid's tuition is cheating?

[LA Muskie]

So the answer is for schools to simply hire the students parent as a consultant.

Get as many players as roster limits allow.

Nice to see Creighton, already known for suspect officiating and suspect video feeds is now showing off creative ways to cheat.
I think this is a fairly extreme position. This is a pretty rare circumstance. If they were hell bent on having 14 scholarship players, McDermott would have been a "walkon" for the last 4 years.

[coasterville95]

If paying the kids tuition means I can bring in another scholarship player then yes it's cheating. If coach said to any other player "I'll pay your tuition", the NCAA would slap an extra compensation sanction on them so fast. In this case it's the father/son loophole.

I'm more worried about my thought to hire the parents of your athletes as consultants.

[GoMuskies]

But it's not any other scholarship player. It's his kid. That's a pretty tiny loophole. Unless Bob Huggins starts adopting star basketball players.

[ammtd34]

If paying the kids tuition means I can bring in another scholarship player then yes it's cheating. If coach said to any other player "I'll pay your tuition", the NCAA would slap an extra compensation sanction on them so fast. In this case it's the father/son loophole.

I'm more worried about my thought to hire the parents of your athletes as consultants.

At Creighton (not sure about other schools), employees have to be at the school for 3 years to get tuition benefits.

[blueblob06]

So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?


Why wouldn't it be allowed? Any parent can pay for their kid to go to school and forego a scholly. Jordan paid for his kid to walk-on at Illinois. Just works out nicely for Dad McDermott in that he gets a job benefit out of it, too. If Adam Simons had been any good, we'd have received the same benefit in that situation.

I guess I'm thinking that allowing rules like this could breed bad practices for schools looking to bend the rules. Example - Let's say School A would like an "extra" scholarship player. They send a letter to the parents of a scholarship player and say "Hey, it'd be cool if your kid walked on this year" and a car/cash/etc shows up at the house after that player decides to be a walk-on. Seems a bit crazy to think but hell USC was doing worse things with Reggie Bush so I could see it happening somewhere.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville once had three scholarship players in a single season give up their scholarships to allow "extra" scholarship players.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/jun/07/kuric-gives-up-scholarship-for-good-of-ul/

[coasterville95]

And if you don't think the Brinks truck was somehow, someway backed up to those families houses... Sort of what BlueBLob06 was saying about things just happening behind the scenes.

Yes, in the Creighton case, its father/son. And that will be the defense used. And I don't think any ill will is meant on Creighton's case, otherwise they could have pulled this the last few seasons. It's just they got themselves in a bind this season (who would have throught they could get a kid their 6th year), which made for finding creative solutions. (Now, when we learn tomorrow that Creighton's coach just signed a "Joining the Big East Bonus" or "Re-signing their Contract Bonus" or some such mechanism that allows the school to put an extra 50K in the coach's pocket...) In fact, for just this reason , it may be WORSE that it's the child of a school employee - as creative accounting and bonussing can occur which results in the school actually paying the kids tuition in a Rube Goldberg-esque manner.

Speaking of playing recrutiting games - I saw something in a tweet about Urban Myers turning whisteblower on the Florida atheltics department. Ouch, that's COLD if true.

[GoMuskies]

Kuric's dad is a surgeon.

[STL_XUfan]

Wouldn't this problem solve itself with the lack of playing time? Also how many parents can afford to send their kid to Creighton with 0 scholarship? I think the worry about a team like Michigan having 14 former NBA player's children "walk-on" so they can have 12 scholarship players who aren't going to play is minimal.

In the end who cares. So long as the parents are actually paying the tab, they are free to waste their money as they see fit. (there are so many easier ways to cheat, why go through trouble).

[Tardy Turtle]

My basketball ability was certainly a limiting factor, though.

This is the most factual post in the history of this fine message board.

[Milhouse]

If paying the kids tuition means I can bring in another scholarship player then yes it's cheating. If coach said to any other player "I'll pay your tuition", the NCAA would slap an extra compensation sanction on them so fast. In this case it's the father/son loophole.

I'm more worried about my thought to hire the parents of your athletes as consultants.

Most places you need to be there for many years for it to take affect. I got tuition for X from my mom working at another University for 15 years. Creighton said the employees can get 50% off if you're there for 5 years or more. So I don't think this is the future or anything like that.....

[paulxu]

But it's not any other scholarship player. It's his kid. That's a pretty tiny loophole. Unless Bob Huggins starts adopting star basketball players.

Juwan Huggins?

[smileyy]

This solution was suggested for Indiana's extra scholarship last year -- have Cody Zeller walk-on, with the Zeller family (and NBA-playing-brother Tyler) paying for his attendance.

[X-band '01]

So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?

I don't remember too much complaining when Jim Baron's kids were playing at URI. Of course, it was only URI...

[xubrew]

I would have thought McDermott would be going to Creighton for free anyway as the son of a school employee. Didn't Adam Simons have free tuition to Xavier because his mother or step-mother worked at an institution that is part of an alliance of schools that trade free tuition for kids of people employed by those universities? It's just that no one cared since Simons sucked at basketball.

He can go to Creighton for free, but it would count as a scholarship even if it wasn't an athletic scholarship. In headcount sports, even a partial athletic scholarship counts as one of the thirteen you're allowed to use.


Which begs the question. Why would any coach use a scholarship on their own child? Unless there is no advantage to doing so (ie: you can't bring in someone more talented than your child or the scholarship would go unused?).

Because unless a coach actually writes a personal check, it counts as one of the thirteen scholarships. Any aid a player receives counts as a full scholarship in the headcount sports.


So, basically, they have one more scholarship-caliber player than everyone else?

This is allowed?

Yes. Why wouldn't it be??

[xubrew]

Scroll down to page 221. Simple, isn't it??

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D113.pdf