Deveroes League

[flatspat]

Any info on Deveroes league this summer?

[XU-PA]

Check here for schedule and results. nothing posted yet. it usually starts middle of June

http://cincysportsworld.com/City_Gear__summer_League.html

[GIMMFD]

Semaj will average 50 a game.. I said it.

[paulxu]

Summer leagues are like methadone for a basketball addict.

[ballyhoohoo]

Summer leagues are like methadone for a basketball addict.

As in the method one clinic?

[TUclutch]

Are this years rosters and schedules updated yet?

[ammtd34]

Are this years rosters and schedules updated yet?

Looks like the schedule is out, but I don't see the rosters.

http://cincysportsworld.com/City_Gear_-Schedule.html

[sweet16]

Looks like the schedule is out, but I don't see the rosters.

http://cincysportsworld.com/City_Gear_-Schedule.html

If I read that correctly it looks like all the summer league games will be webcast, live.

[PMI]

As in the method one clinic?

Daddy makes sure to get his rocks off before heading to the method one.

[usfldan]

If I read that correctly it looks like all the summer league games will be webcast, live.

I think that means the stats will be webcast, like they were last year, but you'll still have to come to Woodward to watch.

[UCGRAD4X]

When do the rosters usually get set? It seems as if the first few games are fairly fluid and many of the players don't even show up until after the 'season' has started. It's been a while since I've been there for the start, but that is what I recall.

[usfldan]

They try to keep the rosters set after the third game, but it does end up being a fluid situation throughout, especially with the noon games. Last year they let Semaj switch teams to play in the championship game. The primary restriction is that only two active players from the same school can be on the same team. Incoming players do not count against that, however. So last year, Deer Park Roofing had Semaj, Myles Davis, James Farr, Jalen Reynolds, and Dez Wells play for them. Without knowing the exact rosters, some of the teams do usually have tie-ins:

DEER PARK ROOFING – Xavier
SLATS – UC
McCLUSKEY CHEVROLET – NKU
SI POOL CARE – Cincinnati State
JACKSON ALL-STARS – Miami (although their involvement has dropped off)
In addition, Raeshon Mansoor Law Office is usually a group of summer league vets like Paul McMillian and Eddie Gray. CJ Anderson, Norm Plummer and AD Graves usually stick together on a team also. In the past it was SuperiorCars.com, although last year it was Goodies BBQ.

[ammtd34]

They try to keep the rosters set after the third game, but it does end up being a fluid situation throughout, especially with the noon games. Last year they let Semaj switch teams to play in the championship game. The primary restriction is that only two active players from the same school can be on the same team. Incoming players do not count against that, however. So last year, Deer Park Roofing had Semaj, Myles Davis, James Farr, Jalen Reynolds, and Dez Wells play for them. Without knowing the exact rosters, some of the teams do usually have tie-ins:

DEER PARK ROOFING – Xavier
SLATS – UC
McCLUSKEY CHEVROLET – NKU
SI POOL CARE – Cincinnati State
JACKSON ALL-STARS – Miami (although their involvement has dropped off)
In addition, Raeshon Mansoor Law Office is usually a group of summer league vets like Paul McMillian and Eddie Gray. CJ Anderson, Norm Plummer and AD Graves usually stick together on a team also. In the past it was SuperiorCars.com, although last year it was Goodies BBQ.

Thanks, I didn't know all that.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2013/06/03/ready-for-the-deveroes-league/

[Muskie]

Here is the schedule (http://cincysportsworld.com/City_Gear_-Schedule.html)

[ammtd34]

Is it safe to assume that Remy Abell will play?

[Milhouse]

Where are the games held? I can't seem to find that info...

[ammtd34]

Where are the games held? I can't seem to find that info...



Woodward.

[usfldan]

The league kicks off tomorrow at noon. I'm not sure how many guys are in town now, but if they are, they'll most likely play for Deer Park Roofing around 2.

[XUFan09]

No Philmore this year. I wonder if he has aspirations of a career in Europe, in which case, he might be making use of some of his last consecutive months at home for awhile.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[nkymuskie]

No Philmore this year. I wonder if he has aspirations of a career in Europe, in which case, he might be making use of some of his last consecutive months at home for awhile.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

That's an awful lot of reading in between the lines... Isaiah is a good ball player but he is not holding out of Deveroes because he thinks he is playing in Europe next year

[XU-PA]

The games start today! 5 games at Woodward, starting at Noon!!!! Wish I was in town.


they are starting to fill in the rosters. man that is one weird website.
http://cincysportsworld.com/City_Gear__summer_League.html

[Masterofreality]

No Philmore this year. I wonder if he has aspirations of a career in Europe, in which case, he might be making use of some of his last consecutive months at home for awhile.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

I think that Isiah is resting his knee. Remember, he has had issues and no sense messing up a joint in the off season in meaningless exhibitions.

[XUFan09]

That's an awful lot of reading in between the lines...

Quite possibly. I was definitely drinking when I wrote that.

[bobbiemcgee]

I think that Isiah is resting his knee. Remember, he has had issues and no sense messing up a joint in the off season in meaningless exhibitions.

Found a bunch of our guys under PLAYERS, including Remy and Randolph.

[Cheesehead]

My son was at X today playing a summer league HS tourney and Philmore was doing the clock. So, I doubt he is done at X.

[Muskie]

I think that Isiah is resting his knee. Remember, he has had issues and no sense messing up a joint in the off season in meaningless exhibitions.

MEANINGLESS? MEANINGLESS? These games clearly represent incredible predictors for a player's individual performance for the upcoming season...

[Thor in 204]

Did anyone go to see Deer Park Roofing yesterday, and if so, who played and how did they do?

[A10fan]

Deonta Vaughn had a good game but Deer Park lost. BTW, none of the Xavier players are playing yet.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Deonta Vaughn had a good game but Deer Park lost.

Somewhere, Lance McAlister is accusing Deonta of point shaving.

[usfldan]

Jalen Reynolds made an appearance in the second game of the day Sunday, playing for Clovernook Health Care in a 68-62 loss to the Jackson All-Stars (http://devwtt.hoopstats.pointstreak.com/boxscore.html?gameid=5183&seasonid=186). He tried to do too much early- he blew a dunk he never should have tried the first time he touched the ball, but settled down to finish 6 points, 11 rebounds, and 2 blocks in 23 minutes, often going against Cheikh Mbodj (who had 7 pts, 8 reb, and 3 blocks). Jackson All-Stars also had Justin Jackson playing for them.

A couple of the UC recruits showed up today (Kevin Johnson and Jamaree Strickland for SLATS) but, unless you count Adrion Graves, Reynolds has been the only XU player to make an appearance.

[gladdenguy]

Heard semaj looks good early and Myles Davis had 24 including 5-9 from three. Trav Taylor led city taxx (Myles team) with 28

Update
Semaj scored 38 points with 5 assists 4 steals and 3 boards. Deer Park had 79 points in a loss.
Deer Park again the team to watch if you're a Xavier fan. Semaj, Randolph, and Remy Abell will be playing come July.
City Taxx of course has Trav and Myles.

[usfldan]

Myles Davis started out missing his first three 3's, so once he got going he hit 5 of 6.

Semaj didn't have much help- most of his team were fill-ins, and they fell behind by 20 early. He took over, finished the first half with 22, and got the team to within a point. Then some guy named Trent Donald went off in the second half and the other team pulled away. Obviously, Semaj looked good, but most of his scoring was on drives and layups with not a lot jumpers (no 3's attempted).

[nuts4xu]

...no sense messing up a joint in the off season...

Any time is a good time to mess up a joint!!

Trust me, I am pro at messing up joints!

[More Cowbell]

Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe 41m
Semaj Christon finished with 21 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assists. Travis Taylor - 24 points, 15 rebounds.

[paulxu]

Is Kamall Richards on campus/playing this summer?

[waggy]

He's listed with Deer Park Roofing, but I don't see his name in the first box score.

[paulxu]

Guess I was curious because I didn't remember if we ever got a LOI from him.

[ballyhoohoo]

We have his loi. Freshman usually don't arrive until July.

[usfldan]

Jaylen Reynolds also played again for Clovernook. He finished with 22 points and 13 rebounds against a SLATS team that had five incoming UC recruits. The highlight was a put-back dunk in which he went over Kevin Johnson to grab the rebound and throw it down.

Channel 5, 9, and 19 were there are various points today- mostly during Semaj and Taylor's game, so maybe they'll show some highlights (although I think 5 was mostly there for the UC freshmen).

None of the new XU guys have showed up yet, but they usually do miss the first few games.

[gladdenguy]

Apparently Kamall Richards played today. I heard he looked pretty good. Check out Deer Park Roofing with Semaj and him. He tweeted earlier in the year about Semaj feeding him the ball and him hitting shots. I guess he has a really good stroke.

[Thor in 204]

Apparently Kamall Richards played today. I heard he looked pretty good. Check out Deer Park Roofing with Semaj and him. He tweeted earlier in the year about Semaj feeding him the ball and him hitting shots. I guess he has a really good stroke.

Watched him play on Sunday and I agree, he shoots the ball well. He seems to have a good understanding of flow of the game and moves well on the court. I think he will be a good player at X and will make quick progress. He's not that tall (walked into the gym along side him and I would guess he's 6'4"/6'5") but is pretty strong for a true freshman.

If Semaj can develop a reliable longer range jumper, and Brandon shoots well, we will have shots going in from every part of the court this year.

[XU-PA]

Sunday results. J Reynolds dropped 17 with 8 boards in a 68-54 win for Clovernook over Cincy Sports.
Semaj, Richards and Travis together with Deer Park Roofing lost to Superior 95-91. Semaj hit for 19 with 11 assists. Travis dropped 29 with 16 boards, Richards 17 points and 13 boards. The Superior crew was led by brothers from IU Southeast, Cameron Mitchell Credited with 28 points, Kevin with 29.
IU Southeast, the Grenadiers, probably make a mean Tequila Sunrise.

[More Cowbell]

I love this quote from a UC board:


I don't think there's a UC fan who was in the house yesterday that based on the game we saw only would not rather have Reynolds than anyone we have coming in.

http://forums.bearcatnews.com/showthread.php?t=12960

Here is Fox19s clip from yesterday:


http://www.fox19.com/category/240225/video-landing-page?clipId=9021271&autostart=true

[X-man]

I love this quote from a UC board:


http://forums.bearcatnews.com/showthread.php?t=12960

Here is Fox19s clip from yesterday:


http://www.fox19.com/category/240225/video-landing-page?clipId=9021271&autostart=true

The clips of Richards draining mid-range jumpers were impressive. He looks very comfortable with the ball, and has a nice release. When I thjink that this team next season has Christon along with Philmore, D. Davis, and Martin, complemented by newcomers like Richards, Randolph, Reynolds, M. Davis, Stainbrook, and Vez (perhaps), I really like the talent and versatility of this team next season.

[nuts4xu]

Watched some clips of Richards at DSL yesterday, and he was shooting the ball very well. I like the fact he is a lefty, and I think he will be a nice addition to the program. Once we see all of these new guards find their stride, I will look back at last year and wonder how the hell we won as many games as we did last season.

[gladdenguy]

Since the Deveroes website is so terrible. I put together an easy to read schedule for the end of the Summer League if anybody wants to get to games. I think Saturday July 13th would be a good day to go if you are a Xavier fan.

Deer Park Roofing - Semaj, Brandon Randolph, Kamall Richards, Remy Abell, James Farr
Schedule
vs. SLATS - Saturday June 29th at 2:00
vs. Jackson - Saturday July 13th at 1:00
vs. McClusky - Sunday July 14th at 12:00

Clovernook - Jalen Reynolds, Dee Davis
Schedule
vs. McClusky - Sunday June 30th at 12:00
vs. Superior - Saturday July 13th at 12:00
vs. City Taxx - Sunday July 14th at 1:00

City Taxx - Myles Davis, Matt Stainbrook
vs. Jackson - Wednesday July 10th at 7:30
vs. Sportsco - Saturday July 13th at 3:00
vs. Clovernook - Sunday July 14th at 1:00

Jackson All Stars - Justin Martin

[More Cowbell]

Did anyone go to the games on Wednesday? Judging by the stats, Travis Taylor had his way with Chane Behanan.

[xavierj]

Did anyone go to the games on Wednesday? Judging by the stats, Travis Taylor had his way with Chane Behanan.

I was there and Travis did not have his way with him. Travis guarded him once, first play of the game and Chane abused him by taking him off the dribble from top of the key backing him down to the rim like Travis was a fly trying to guard him. After that they didn't really face each other. Travis played well on offense though and actually handles the ball pretty well but I don't think he passed once even when he was triple teamed. As for Chane he is a big man and it looks like he is working on his outside game because after the first play he was just hitting jumpers and bringing the ball up the floor. No other Xavier players made it that night.

[blueblob06]

Since the Deveroes website is so terrible. I put together an easy to read schedule for the end of the Summer League if anybody wants to get to games. I think Saturday July 13th would be a good day to go if you are a Xavier fan.

Deer Park Roofing - Semaj, Brandon Randolph, Kamall Richards, Remy Abell, James Farr
Schedule
vs. SLATS - Saturday June 29th at 2:00
vs. Jackson - Saturday July 13th at 1:00
vs. McClusky - Sunday July 14th at 12:00

Clovernook - Jalen Reynolds, Dee Davis
Schedule
vs. McClusky - Sunday June 30th at 12:00
vs. Superior - Saturday July 13th at 12:00
vs. City Taxx - Sunday July 14th at 1:00

City Taxx - Myles Davis, Matt Stainbrook
vs. Jackson - Wednesday July 10th at 7:30
vs. Sportsco - Saturday July 13th at 3:00
vs. Clovernook - Sunday July 14th at 1:00

Jackson All Stars - Justin Martin

Reminder to everyone that this Saturday is probably the best day to go if you want to see as many X guys as possible. Thanks for posting GG.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Reminder to everyone that this Saturday is probably the best day to go if you want to see as many X guys as possible. Thanks for posting GG.

Deer Park plays the team with Justin Martin on it this Saturday at 1:00, so I agree, will be a good day for a Xavier fan to be there.

[Milhouse]

Damn wish Bunbury wasn't this weekend. Would've been a good game to go to.

[outsideobserver11]

Damn wish Bunbury wasn't this weekend. Would've been a good game to go to.

I'd say that's a worthy reason to miss. You'll be having a great time there.

[pimpinthebox]

Watched some clips of Richards at DSL yesterday, and he was shooting the ball very well. I like the fact he is a lefty, and I think he will be a nice addition to the program. Once we see all of these new guards find their stride, I will look back at last year and wonder how the hell we won as many games as we did last season.

Amen, brother. I'll be honest. I braced myself for a rough one last year and, although it sucked to have to go through it, the season definitely turned out better than I had thought (sniffing the NCAAs with a few games left in the season). This year, I'm all boned up with excitement. I'll be there this Saturday watching our guys in the summer league.

[casualfan]

Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe 5m
Behanan finished with 28 points and 10 rebounds. XU's Myles Davis couldn't find it today. Finished 2-14 from the field, 1-9 from three.

[mistabeecee41]

Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe 5m
Behanan finished with 28 points and 10 rebounds. XU's Myles Davis couldn't find it today. Finished 2-14 from the field, 1-9 from three.

who needs Myles Davis to can 3's - Jalen Reynolds knocked 3/4 in today.

[bobbiemcgee]

Jalen Reynolds knocked 3/4 in today.

The 26/13 wasn't bad either. Semaj 23 Randolph 13

[TUclutch]

Calling it now, Brandon Randolph will have taken Dee Davis' starting spot by the end of the season. Same with Richards taking Martins spot. The in team competition is going to be very good which will make the rest of the team better for games

[Frambo]

Calling it now, Brandon Randolph will have taken Dee Davis' starting spot by the end of the season. Same with Richards taking Martins spot. The in team competition is going to be very good which will make the rest of the team better for games

Watched the games today. You might be right on Randolph, but I thought Dee played a nice game today, actually getting stronger as the game progressed. I actually see Dee playing great and keeping the starting spot as he won't have to play 30+ minutes and will be fresher thanks to Brandon and Myles. As for the 3 spot....I'm still holding out hope for more competition at the three than just those two.

[XUFan09]

Watched the games today. You might be right on Randolph, but I thought Dee played a nice game today, actually getting stronger as the game progressed. I actually see Dee playing great and keeping the starting spot as he won't have to play 30+ minutes and will be fresher thanks to Brandon and Myles. As for the 3 spot....I'm still holding out hope for more competition at the three than just those two.

I appreciate TuClutch not designating Randolph as the starter from day one as some have, but I'm with you, Frambo. Dee needs to cut down on his turnovers (and has acknowledge that himself), but an offense looks so much smoother with him in there as the floor general. He's not a player that is going to astound you offensively, but he is quite crafty and controls the floor well on both ends. His defense was some of the best on the team last year. Also, Brandon Randolph is in the mold of Mark Lyons (without the atttitude), and like Lyons, he looks like a combo guard who is best coming off the bench his freshman year for an offensive spark. I definitely could see Randolph eventually taking the shooting guard spot as a starter while Semaj rotates to point, but it will be a hard-fought battle. Hell, Myles might have a leg-up on Randolph there.

As for the 3 position, I was really hoping for someone like Erick Peck or Lasan Kromah for a fifth-year transfer, but sadly, it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Vez could be a significant contributor at the 3 spot, but the word is he is more of a stretch 4 than a small forward. The problem is, he could also be a semi-benchwarmer his freshman year as he bulks up. There's just no way of telling. Nevertheless, it's great that both Vez and Kamall might challenge JMart for minutes. If that focuses Justin, he could be the #2 or #3 option on the team next year and a significant contributor. Let's hope so...

[UCGRAD4X]

I would guess that it is more likely that DD will continue to start but that his minutes will become gradually diminished. An equilibrium will develop that will largely depend on the development of both Randolph's skill level and Dee's leadership and floor savvy. Mack values and rewards Dee's quality by starting him longer than he may deserve (hypothetically) and, at the same time, Randolph's skill level and versatility by increasing his playing time....win/win, and, hopefully...WIN!

Hypothetically speaking...except for the WIN part.

[muskieman08]

My thoughts on the City Gear/Deveroes League yesterday:

Dee looked to be locked in on both ends of the floor which you rarely see in these games. He seemed to command the floor and the team's offense. I think his comfort and confidence levels are rising and I believe he will definitely be a starter on this team day 1 and may continue to be longer than some people may think.

Jalen showed some tremendous athleticism and versatility yesterday hitting some nice outside jump shots in rhythm. The drawback of his athleticism seems to be that he relies on it too much and doesn't practice sound, fundamental rebounding techniques. I'm sure that will come with time. One concern that I saw with him is that he got too emotional at times and let it affect his game too much. There will have to be a lot of coaching both on and off the court to keep him focused on the game plans. Looks like a slightly more polished Derrick Brown at this point, though, which is good news.

Semaj looked spectacular. His explosiveness and patience was showcased multiple times around the basket making Shaq Mbodj, CJ Anderson, and Shaq Thomas look stupid. He will be a treat to watch this year.

Brandon and Kamall looked fine. They really didn't do anything to stand out positively or negatively to me. I think that may be one of the drawbacks of playing with a guy like Semaj that controls the floor and the team as much as he does. I was hoping to see one of them make more of a concerted effort to run the team or create. Didn't see much there to complain or praise. I would probably say the same thing about Remy. His jump shot does not look very pretty to me.

James Farr looks like he hasn't improved much. Sure, he had a couple nice tip-ins around the rim, but they were mostly against weaker bigs. He continues to look a little lost on both ends of the floor. It seems like he's settling for jumpers too often and needs to take the ball to the rim.

Justin Martin showed up late and just didn't look engaged. He showed some glimmers and there were many plays that he made leaving me shaking my head. Classic J-Mart. I still think that he's going to have to play some minutes on this team giving his backcourt size. Brandon, Dee, and Kamall may not be able check some of the longer and larger guards in the Big East. Hopefully the talent and competition for playing time will inspire him to play more consistently and with more purpose.

Unfortunately wasn't able to stay for the late game with Myles and Stainbrook...

I know that making hard judgments on summer league games is premature and definitely not precise, but that's just what I saw yesterday.

[Juice]

I would guess that it is more likely that DD will continue to start but that his minutes will become gradually diminished. An equilibrium will develop that will largely depend on the development of both Randolph's skill level and Dee's leadership and floor savvy. Mack values and rewards Dee's quality by starting him longer than he may deserve (hypothetically) and, at the same time, Randolph's skill level and versatility by increasing his playing time....win/win, and, hopefully...WIN!

Hypothetically speaking...except for the WIN part.

I can see Dee getting good minutes all year as he could play both guard positions if needed.

[bobbiemcgee]

My thoughts on the City Gear/Deveroes League yesterday:

Dee looked to be locked in on both ends of the floor which you rarely see in these games. He seemed to command the floor and the team's offense. I think his comfort and confidence levels are rising and I believe he will definitely be a starter on this team day 1 and may continue to be longer than some people may think.

Jalen showed some tremendous athleticism and versatility yesterday hitting some nice outside jump shots in rhythm. The drawback of his athleticism seems to be that he relies on it too much and doesn't practice sound, fundamental rebounding techniques. I'm sure that will come with time. One concern that I saw with him is that he got too emotional at times and let it affect his game too much. There will have to be a lot of coaching both on and off the court to keep him focused on the game plans. Looks like a slightly more polished Derrick Brown at this point, though, which is good news.

Semaj looked spectacular. His explosiveness and patience was showcased multiple times around the basket making Shaq Mbodj, CJ Anderson, and Shaq Thomas look stupid. He will be a treat to watch this year.

Brandon and Kamall looked fine. They really didn't do anything to stand out positively or negatively to me. I think that may be one of the drawbacks of playing with a guy like Semaj that controls the floor and the team as much as he does. I was hoping to see one of them make more of a concerted effort to run the team or create. Didn't see much there to complain or praise. I would probably say the same thing about Remy. His jump shot does not look very pretty to me.

James Farr looks like he hasn't improved much. Sure, he had a couple nice tip-ins around the rim, but they were mostly against weaker bigs. He continues to look a little lost on both ends of the floor. It seems like he's settling for jumpers too often and needs to take the ball to the rim.

Justin Martin showed up late and just didn't look engaged. He showed some glimmers and there were many plays that he made leaving me shaking my head. Classic J-Mart. I still think that he's going to have to play some minutes on this team giving his backcourt size. Brandon, Dee, and Kamall may not be able check some of the longer and larger guards in the Big East. Hopefully the talent and competition for playing time will inspire him to play more consistently and with more purpose.

Unfortunately wasn't able to stay for the late game with Myles and Stainbrook...

I know that making hard judgments on summer league games is premature and definitely not precise, but that's just what I saw yesterday.

Thanks for the write-up. I'd love to go down and check out the new guys but rather difficult from Orlando lol. Sounds like a great bunch.
JMart, JMart, JMart! You talked about the "glimmer". We have all seen it. However, just doesn't last long and never seems to turn into an actual "fire". Damnit, we all know he can play and keep waiting for him to get hot. Frustrating. Guess we'll just have to deal with it and see if he gets beat out for a starting position. In Mack we Trust.

Love the Mark Lyons (playing style) reference to Randolph. Ain't gonna be easy to get minutes on this team. Jalen has never actually been "coached" by Mack yet. Great potential that I think will come out fast. Myles? Dunno. Lives and dies with the 3ball. Hope he can shoot 50% and we have to go to a 3 guard line-up.

[TUclutch]

My thoughts on the City Gear/Deveroes League yesterday:

Dee looked to be locked in on both ends of the floor which you rarely see in these games. He seemed to command the floor and the team's offense. I think his comfort and confidence levels are rising and I believe he will definitely be a starter on this team day 1 and may continue to be longer than some people may think.

Jalen showed some tremendous athleticism and versatility yesterday hitting some nice outside jump shots in rhythm. The drawback of his athleticism seems to be that he relies on it too much and doesn't practice sound, fundamental rebounding techniques. I'm sure that will come with time. One concern that I saw with him is that he got too emotional at times and let it affect his game too much. There will have to be a lot of coaching both on and off the court to keep him focused on the game plans. Looks like a slightly more polished Derrick Brown at this point, though, which is good news.

Semaj looked spectacular. His explosiveness and patience was showcased multiple times around the basket making Shaq Mbodj, CJ Anderson, and Shaq Thomas look stupid. He will be a treat to watch this year.

Brandon and Kamall looked fine. They really didn't do anything to stand out positively or negatively to me. I think that may be one of the drawbacks of playing with a guy like Semaj that controls the floor and the team as much as he does. I was hoping to see one of them make more of a concerted effort to run the team or create. Didn't see much there to complain or praise. I would probably say the same thing about Remy. His jump shot does not look very pretty to me.

James Farr looks like he hasn't improved much. Sure, he had a couple nice tip-ins around the rim, but they were mostly against weaker bigs. He continues to look a little lost on both ends of the floor. It seems like he's settling for jumpers too often and needs to take the ball to the rim.

Justin Martin showed up late and just didn't look engaged. He showed some glimmers and there were many plays that he made leaving me shaking my head. Classic J-Mart. I still think that he's going to have to play some minutes on this team giving his backcourt size. Brandon, Dee, and Kamall may not be able check some of the longer and larger guards in the Big East. Hopefully the talent and competition for playing time will inspire him to play more consistently and with more purpose.

Unfortunately wasn't able to stay for the late game with Myles and Stainbrook...

I know that making hard judgments on summer league games is premature and definitely not precise, but that's just what I saw yesterday.

cheikh*

Kamall is No more than an inch shorter than Martin. Basically the exact same player.

[TUclutch]

Sorry, but DD is not playing both guard positions. If Dee is in it will be with Semaj and Myles. If Randolph is in it will be with Semaj and Myles. Dee and Randolph will only be on the court together should the other 2 be in bad foul trouble/hurt

[XUFan09]

Sorry, but DD is not playing both guard positions. If Dee is in it will be with Semaj and Myles. If Randolph is in it will be with Semaj and Myles. Dee and Randolph will only be on the court together should the other 2 be in bad foul trouble/hurt

Dee is a pure point, but Randolph is a combo guard, so I guarantee you will see the two of them on the floor together this year.

[XU 87]

Calling it now, Brandon Randolph will have taken Dee Davis' starting spot by the end of the season. Same with Richards taking Martins spot. The in team competition is going to be very good which will make the rest of the team better for games

I think the last time 2 freshman became starters mid-season was the Doellman and Cage freshman year. And we went to the elite 8 that year. So that worked out pretty well.

Dee Davis was a serviceable point guard last year, but I didn't think he showed enough speed and quickness to make up for his lack of height. Martin was just way too inconsistent. Maybe a little competition will make him pick his game up.

I haven't seen Richards play. But I've heard and read that he's looked pretty good so far. I realize it's summer league, but that's what I've heard.

[PMI]

Martin shows up late and looks disengaged. Shocker. It's really hard for me to believe that he'll ever get it together. I would certainly need to see it for awhile first. I really hope he's not the next Jeff Robinson, but it appears to be heading that way.

[gladdenguy]

Brandon Randolph and Jalen Reynolds are extremely talented. Jalen is extremely long and athletic and Brandon is quick with a good handle.
Semaj was outstanding scoring at will. Remy Abell did not look like anything special. JMart walked in with some confidence and hit his first 2 shots but by the end of the game he had a big technical. Everything with him is mental.
Dee looked okay. I think Randolph will be a much better player in a short amount of time.
This year looks real good. If Semaj would stay for his junior year this team would be a top 10 team in 2014/2015.

By the way, CJ and Trav had a lot of words for each other and the girls in the corner were trying to get in Trav's head. That was great entertainment.

[mistabeecee41]

Any thoughts on Stain? Stat line doesn't look too impressive. Hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling people are overhyping him a bit around here.

[bobbiemcgee]

10/9 today on 4-14 shooting. Frankly, I'm glad he could play 28 mins. in a summer league game with the knee problem he had.

[xavierj]

I was there Saturday. I was really impressed with Jalen Reynolds. Guy is a freak athlete with arms down to his knees it seems. He will dunk any time he is close to the basket regardless of who is in front of him. He also can dribble and has a nice outside stroke. I don't see how he will not start. Myles Davis was looking for his shot and is not afraid to shoot. He is a scorer and is pretty strong. Also very confident. Dee Davis was efficient but nothing special. He just try's to play smart. Matt was better than I had expected coming off a knee issue. He is big, plays good defense and is surprisingly agile. He can move his feet, has good strong post moves, can run and even though he missed ten shots he actually has a real smooth lefty stroke. His shot just did not fall. His free throw stroke looks pretty good as well. He will help.

[blueblob06]

Watched the games on Sunday. Wow, Jalen is a freak athlete. In the 1:00 game yesterday, Jalen had 3 or 4 dunks, the rest of the field had zero. One of them was Blake Griffin-like where he didn't look close enough to the rim but his arms are long enough that he just threw it in. I can't wait to see Mack having him play our "crash the offensive glass" type basketball because he is gonna provide some big highlights.

Myles Davis showed some promise, and his body is more filled in than I was thinking. I'm used to seeing skinny guys come in as freshmen when we recruit guards (I know he's not a true freshman) so was happy to see he's at a good weight already. He was drilling shots from all over the court.

On a side note, Reynolds and Martin both seemed to lose their tempers at times on Sundays.

[danaandvictory]

Myles Davis showed some promise, and his body is more filled in than I was thinking. I'm used to seeing skinny guys come in as freshmen when we recruit guards (I know he's not a true freshman) so was happy to see he's at a good weight already. He was drilling shots from all over the court.

The knock on Davis actually was that he couldn't keep his weight down. It sounds from open gyms and so forth that his conditioning is good. I was concerned a bit with Jalen and Myles that being kept away from the team might cause them to slack off with lifting and conditioning work and am pleased those concerns were unfounded.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

On a side note, Reynolds and Martin both seemed to lose their tempers at times on Sundays.

Martin got hit with a costly "T" late in a close game on Saturday, too.

[bobbiemcgee]

Any thoughts on Stain? Stat line doesn't look too impressive. Hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling people are overhyping him a bit around here.

Stainbrook ‏@mstainbrook40 14 Jul

Gonna bother me all day I missed such easy shots!!

[bobbiemcgee]

m.j ‏@SemajChriston 10m

If yu ain't doing nothing tonight come watch me work at Woodward at 10

[usfldan]

He should have watched James Farr - 25 points, 27 rebounds. The other team had 23 boards total.

He'll play Jalen Reynolds's team Thursday at 10:30.

[bobbiemcgee]

Semaj had 22 hisself. Wow. If Farr gets competitive....................................... ......

[More Cowbell]

Looks like there was a Chris Cantino sighting as well.

[HuskyMuskie]

Looks like there was a Chris Cantino sighting as well.

Who?

[More Cowbell]

Who?

exactly. He had a -2 PER.

[Madfan]

Did anyone go to the game last night? Would love to hear how the guys matched up!

[More Cowbell]

Judging by the box score, Jalen Reynolds was on deam.

[mistabeecee41]

Judging by the box score, Jalen Reynolds was on deam.

I don't want to be that guy who gets overly excited about Summer League statistics, but his performance this summer strengthens my idea that I want him to start this year. I still don't picture Philmore and Stainbrook complimenting each other very well.

[blueblob06]

If Vez really is a stretch 4 and is here this year, I would think basically Philmore, Stain, Reynolds, and him eat up all the mins at the 4 and 5.

Bad news for Farr and Stenger.

[BandAid]

If Vez really is a stretch 4 and is here this year, I would think basically Philmore, Stain, Reynolds, and him eat up all the mins at the 4 and 5.

Bad news for Farr and Stenger.

I think between Reynolds and Vez, foul trouble and size may allow someone to sniff some minutes pretty regularly.

[xavierj]

My opinion. Jalen Reynolds will not be at Xavier very long. He can shoot from deep, is fast, strong and just a freak athlete. He can also handle the ball. I would expect to see him in the NBA in the next few years. And this has nothing to do with the summer league. Guy just has all of the tools.

[OH.X.MI]

My opinion. Jalen Reynolds will not be at Xavier very long. He can shoot from deep, is fast, strong and just a freak athlete. He can also handle the ball. I would expect to see him in the NBA in the next few years. And this has nothing to do with the summer league. Guy just has all of the tools.

Jalen's budding sign-language rap career might also lead to an unfortunately early exit!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryns90vsdJA

[paulxu]

It's OK by me if Jalen Reynolds leaves early for the NBA (every BB kid's dream) as long as he makes good on his promise to take us to the Final Four first.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

It's OK by me if Jalen Reynolds leaves early for the NBA (every BB kid's dream) as long as he makes good on his promise to take us to the Final Four first.

Remember, if he is awesome and plays 2 years he will enter the draft at 22ish years old or the age of a normal Senior.

[Milhouse]

Jesus he has put on a ton of muscle and it shows in that video.

Mack has been incredible at identifying these prospects early. Granted we haven't seen him play yet... But Jalen, Semaj, and Dez didn't he have verbals from all of them their Junior year of High School? Jalen might've even been Sophomore year? Feels like that final four quote was forever ago. So excited for this year. He's got the tools, now its just a matter of putting them all together.

[kyxu]

Jesus he has put on a ton of muscle and it shows in that video.

Mack has been incredible at identifying these prospects early. Granted we haven't seen him play yet... But Jalen, Semaj, and Dez didn't he have verbals from all of them their Junior year of High School? Jalen might've even been Sophomore year? Feels like that final four quote was forever ago. So excited for this year. He's got the tools, now its just a matter of putting them all together.

I believe Jalen committed before his senior year of high school, but it feels like a long time ago because he spent a year at prep school AFTER his senior year, then was declared ineligible for his freshman year.

When he plays his first game at Xavier, he will be a 20-year-old "freshman." So in other words, he'll be a grown ass man.

[blueblob06]

Pretend just for a minute that Semaj is here as a JR and none of the below leave...that'd be a 2014 starting 5 of:
Semaj, Randolph, Vez, Reynolds, Stainbrook

If you think of all those guys now and then add a year of collegiant experience to Randolph, Vez, and Reynolds, that sounds pretty amazing. Hell, even with Semaj in the NBA, you can place a Dee/Sumner in there and it's an awesome starting 5.

I know, I know, there's a whole season before that and hopefully an awesome one at that. July days on the boards are for wandering minds.

[flatspat]

I think Justin Martin has 2 yrs of eligibility left. If so, he would be on that team.

[Milhouse]

I think Justin Martin has 2 yrs of eligibility left. If so, he would be on that team.

Unless he took the 5th year route.

I just don't see a scenario where Semaj doesn't leave after this year. Even if he puts up the same numbers of 15 and 5 I think he's gone. I personally think we'll see him do something along the lines of 17 and 7...damn near Trey Burke numbers.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Unless he took the 5th year route.

I just don't see a scenario where Semaj doesn't leave after this year. Even if he puts up the same numbers of 15 and 5 I think he's gone. I personally think we'll see him do something along the lines of 17 and 7...damn near Trey Burke numbers.

Unless Martin really improves I just can't see him finish his senior year on this team. I think Vez and Kamall will have leap frogged in the lineup.

[A10fan]

Pretend just for a minute that Semaj is here as a JR and none of the below leave...that'd be a 2014 starting 5 of:
Semaj, Randolph, Vez, Reynolds, Stainbrook

I know, I know, there's a whole season before that and hopefully an awesome one at that. July days on the boards are for wandering minds.

Well, if you really want to dream throw a SR. Dez Wells at the SF.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Well, if you really want to dream throw a SR. Dez Wells at the SF.:munch:

[xavierj]

Justin Martin, Dee Davis and Reynolds were the stars today. They will face off tomorrow for the championship. Justin had 17 and 12 and Dee did it all. 17, 8 assists, 5 rebounds and 5 steals.

[XU-PA]

Unless he took the 5th year route.

I just don't see a scenario where Semaj doesn't leave after this year. Even if he puts up the same numbers of 15 and 5 I think he's gone. I personally think we'll see him do something along the lines of 17 and 7...damn near Trey Burke numbers.

One thing, was reading up about how NBA execs are drooling over the next draft class, it is loaded, and as good as Semaj is he is just mentioned as an after thought at the bottom of the list. Perhaps, just perhaps it makes sense for a budding superstar to be in a shallower pool of talent.

[Milhouse]

One thing, was reading up about how NBA execs are drooling over the next draft class, it is loaded, and as good as Semaj is he is just mentioned as an after thought at the bottom of the list. Perhaps, just perhaps it makes sense for a budding superstar to be in a shallower pool of talent.

I wouldn't disagree with this, but just seems like he'd take his chances even if he wasn't guaranteed first rounder (ie has a bad year). Lord knows we'd all love him to stay though.

[xavierj]

One thing, was reading up about how NBA execs are drooling over the next draft class, it is loaded, and as good as Semaj is he is just mentioned as an after thought at the bottom of the list. Perhaps, just perhaps it makes sense for a budding superstar to be in a shallower pool of talent.

Semaj is projected as a lottery pick at #6 on NBAdraft.net 2014 mock draft and at #20 on NBAdraftexpress. I do not expect him back after this year.

[mistabeecee41]

Regardless of how meaningless summer league stats are I was curious to see how everybody did as a whole outside of the game by game updates we saw in this thread. I'm sure as every other summer league follower has noticed, Deveroe's website is god awful and tracking down each player was a pain in the ass. To make it easier for myself (and everybody else) I put together a public Google Drive spreadsheet which includes all X player stats for this year's summer league.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhkxM7tbFg2edE9KX0ZHREpMZnAxTTB3cDhldGh4R EE#gid=0

(If the link doesn't work, let me know - never attempted this before).

[bobbiemcgee]

Nice Job. Appreciate the effort!

[nuts4xu]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhkxM7tbFg2edE9KX0ZHREpMZnAxTTB3cDhldGh4R EE#gid=0



I would love to see us with 10 players averaging double figures in points for the season. It would be even better to have 3 guys average double figures in rebounds too, especially if Farr can AVERAGE 17 boards a game.

We do this for the season, we would rewrite the record books and punch our ticket to the final four!

[BandAid]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhkxM7tbFg2edE9KX0ZHREpMZnAxTTB3cDhldGh4R EE#gid=0



That's awesome, thanks.

Stat thoughts:
Has Semaj attempted a three?
Has Myles only attempted threes?
Looks like free throws might be a ride again this year, especially with Jalen.

[Masterofreality]

So, who won the Championship?

[More Cowbell]

So, who won the Championship?

It will be Saturday at 1:30.

[xu95]

Unless Martin really improves I just can't see him finish his senior year on this team. I think Vez and Kamall will have leap frogged in the lineup.

Is this the same Kamall that someone in your Accounts Payable department said wasn't any good?

[xavierj]

Unless Martin really improves I just can't see him finish his senior year on this team. I think Vez and Kamall will have leap frogged in the lineup.

Justin Martin started as a sophomore. Now if he does not play much next year I guess he could go the graduate program route and play right away. My gut, and its a big one, tells me he starts this coming year and plays between 20 and 25 minutes a game. No way he transfers if that's the case.

[xavierj]

Justin Martin played 26 minutes a game as a sophomore and averaged 8 pts and 4 rebounds. He is also not bad on defense. Why do people hate him so much. Is it the tat's?

[bigdiggins]

Justin Martin played 26 minutes a game as a sophomore and averaged 8 pts and 4 rebounds. He is also not bad on defense. Why do people hate him so much. Is it the tat's?

He missed something like 49 consecutive 3 pt shots starting in Dec. If by not bad on defense you mean losing his man consistently off the ball, and when he is with him playing lazy @ss don't move your feet and commit at least 3 terrible slap at the opposing player as he drives by him fouls than I agree he is not bad on defense.

EDIT:After Dec 6th, he had four games in double figures (two of which were Fordham and Duquesne which should not count). He had 6 games in which he had 2 points or less. Average of 6 points per game. From a starter playing 24mpg.

To clarify from above he was actually 5-37 on 3 pt shots in Dec and Jan combined. He was 14-63 for 22% from Dec through the end of the season. He averaged 3 3pt shots per game and made 22% of them.

He had a turnover for every combined steal AND assist (this includes the 6 assist 1 steal 2 turnover performance game 1 against FDU).

I don't hate him. I just look at what he does on the court and think he is not very good leaving a lot of opportunity for others to play their way into minutes at his position.

[mistabeecee41]

He missed something like 49 consecutive 3 pt shots starting in Dec. If by not bad on defense you mean losing his man consistently off the ball, and when he is with him playing lazy @ss don't move your feet and commit at least 3 terrible slap at the opposing player as he drives by him fouls than I agree he is not bad on defense.

I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to J-Mart. Don't hate him as much as most people here, but I agree he could lose some PT if he doesn't become more consistent and some of the new guys come ready to play.

With that being said - where did you get that 3 point statistic from? Completely unfounded.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/51079/justin-martin

[GoMuskies]

I'm going with hyperbole. Martin had an awful shooting slump.

Reading your link, I count 3-33.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Is this the same Kamall that someone in your Accounts Payable department said wasn't any good?

Yes, and my comment should speak a lot about my opinion of Justin Martin. The kid just can't play any kind of worth while defense, he absolutely disappears in games, shot just 29% from 3 last year, and is really only good in 5-7 games a year. He is basically Jeff Robinson at the SF position. I am not saying Kamall is going to walk in and be great, but from what I have seen from Richards the kid could come in and be able to defend and rebound right away. That would be a small improvement over Justin Martin.

Remember, Hopefully this team is looking at improvements in scoring from last year and a bigger front line. The need for a rebounding 3 might not be that huge next year if Stainbrook, Philmore, and Reynolds all play well.

XU will have Kamall with a year under the kid's belt, Swift coming in as a Freshman, and hopefully Vez with a year, another experienced wing with Remy Abell. I don't hate Justin Martin, I just don't think he is really any good and will most likely be passed over for harder playing kids. Hence, in the spirit of the offseason I speculated that I could see him moving on to somewhere else.

[bigdiggins]

I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to J-Mart. Don't hate him as much as most people here, but I agree he could lose some PT if he doesn't become more consistent and some of the new guys come ready to play.

With that being said - where did you get that 3 point statistic from? Completely unfounded.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/51079/justin-martin

CBS has game by game stats for every player (although they still list Xavier in A-10). The original 49 I thought was obviously an exaggeration, but perhaps not as obvious as I thought. 5-37 and 14-63 for 22% are completely founded.

[xavierj]

CBS has game by game stats for every player (although they still list Xavier in A-10). The original 49 I thought was obviously an exaggeration, but perhaps not as obvious as I thought. 5-37 and 14-63 for 22% are completely founded.

I'm still trying to figure out how the guy played 26 minutes a game and averaged 8 and 4 as a sophmore and people want to run him off. If he was that bad Chris Mack would have found a way to move him on this past year. My guess is that Chris has a higher opinion than the rest of you. I see a guy who is is all arms and legs with some Ability that just needs to put it all together. My guess is that many will change their tune on him this year.

[xavierj]

Justin Martin shot 46% from three combined, 24 of 52 in his first 8 games and last 10 combined. He scored over 10 pts a game his first 8. Just maybe the concusion took him a while to get through.

[PMI]

I'm still trying to figure out how the guy played 26 minutes a game and averaged 8 and 4 as a sophmore and people want to run him off. If he was that bad Chris Mack would have found a way to move him on this past year. My guess is that Chris has a higher opinion than the rest of you. I see a guy who is is all arms and legs with some Ability that just needs to put it all together. My guess is that many will change their tune on him this year.

I wouldn't say I'm a Martin hater (I'm certainly rooting for him to improve) but I'm definitely in the camp that is worried/unsold. Let's be honest, he averaged 26 minutes a game because we had very, very few options last year. His numbers are a bit misleading when you factor in how painfully inconsistent he was. The thing that worries me though, is that it seemed as if his effort was very inconsistent throughout the year. The reason he frustrates me more than most (not like Jeff Robinson frustrating quite yet, but still frustrating) is because we have seen the flashes of when he's a very solid player. When he hustles and crashes the boards and is hitting from outside, he is certainly a good player. But when he falls asleep on defense and commits lazy fouls and shows what appears to be a genuine lack of focus, it's frustrating. Considering how much we will probably need him this year, unless Richards is a lot further along than I'd expect, I don't see any problem with fans being concerned. That's not hating, just the situation as I see it.

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=PMI;400139]I wouldn't say I'm a Martin hater (I'm certainly rooting for him to improve) but I'm definitely in the camp that is worried/unsold. Let's be honest, he averaged 26 minutes a game because we had very, very few options last year. His numbers are a bit misleading when you factor in how painfully inconsistent he was. The thing that worries me though, is that it seemed as if his effort was very inconsistent throughout the year. The reason he frustrates me more than most (not like Jeff Robinson frustrating quite yet, but still frustrating) is because we have seen the flashes of when he's a very solid player. When he hustles and crashes the boards and is hitting from outside, he is certainly a good player. But when he falls asleep on defense and commits lazy fouls and shows what appears to be a genuine lack of focus, it's frustrating. Considering how much we will probably need him this year, unless Richards is a lot further along than I'd expect, I don't see any problem with fans being concerned. That's not hating, just the situation as I see it.[/QUOTe


But he really was not inconsistent. He was very consistent the first 8 games, actually the 2nd best player on the team through 8, and then the concussion Then for 12 games he was in a fog and the last 10 he was much more consistent. But a concussion can be a tough deal. It can take a very long ime to recover from a concussion. No one knows what Justin went throuh. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he comes out this year like he started last year.

[PMI]

[QUOTE=PMI;400139]I wouldn't say I'm a Martin hater (I'm certainly rooting for him to improve) but I'm definitely in the camp that is worried/unsold. Let's be honest, he averaged 26 minutes a game because we had very, very few options last year. His numbers are a bit misleading when you factor in how painfully inconsistent he was. The thing that worries me though, is that it seemed as if his effort was very inconsistent throughout the year. The reason he frustrates me more than most (not like Jeff Robinson frustrating quite yet, but still frustrating) is because we have seen the flashes of when he's a very solid player. When he hustles and crashes the boards and is hitting from outside, he is certainly a good player. But when he falls asleep on defense and commits lazy fouls and shows what appears to be a genuine lack of focus, it's frustrating. Considering how much we will probably need him this year, unless Richards is a lot further along than I'd expect, I don't see any problem with fans being concerned. That's not hating, just the situation as I see it.[/QUOTe


But he really was not inconsistent. He was very consistent the first 8 games, actually the 2nd best player on the team through 8, and then the concussion Then for 12 games he was in a fog and the last 10 he was much more consistent. But a concussion can be a tough deal. It can take a very long ime to recover from a concussion. No one knows what Justin went throuh. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he comes out this year like he started last year.

Fair enough. You're entitled to give him the benefit of the doubt, and perhaps my doubts are a bit harsh. You're right that we don't know what he went through, so we'll never truly know. I do think, however, that it is a stretch to say he wasn't inconsistent. I don't mean to downplay the severity of concussions (and how severe his was I have no idea) but I also think it's just as much an assumption to suggest that the concussion was the sole reason for the large chunk of the season where he did not play well. My opinion that his effort and focus could use improvements is of course just my opinion, but it's not just completely out of the blue speculation. I don't say that to make any negative implications about his character or anything like that, but the fact is that some players have those things and others don't, and I worry that he might always be very inconsistent and frustrating. I could be totally wrong and I hope I am. He'd be far from the first Xavier player to vastly improve as an upperclassman. I just hope he doesn't go the Jeff Robinson route instead. I think that he had a huge opportunity last year with all the playing time he got to really take a step forward, and it was a bumpy ride. Drastic inconsistency in effort and focus, which is what I believe I saw, on both ends of the floor, is always a concern. I believe those qualities, while very much mental, are a skill that some players have and some don't. I hope he can develop it, and obviously concussions don't help there. Here's to hoping he balls out this year, because we could certainly use that.

[bigdiggins]

[QUOTE=PMI;400139]I wouldn't say I'm a Martin hater (I'm certainly rooting for him to improve) but I'm definitely in the camp that is worried/unsold. Let's be honest, he averaged 26 minutes a game because we had very, very few options last year. His numbers are a bit misleading when you factor in how painfully inconsistent he was. The thing that worries me though, is that it seemed as if his effort was very inconsistent throughout the year. The reason he frustrates me more than most (not like Jeff Robinson frustrating quite yet, but still frustrating) is because we have seen the flashes of when he's a very solid player. When he hustles and crashes the boards and is hitting from outside, he is certainly a good player. But when he falls asleep on defense and commits lazy fouls and shows what appears to be a genuine lack of focus, it's frustrating. Considering how much we will probably need him this year, unless Richards is a lot further along than I'd expect, I don't see any problem with fans being concerned. That's not hating, just the situation as I see it.[/QUOTe
But he really was not inconsistent. He was very consistent the first 8 games, actually the 2nd best player on the team through 8, and then the concussion Then for 12 games he was in a fog and the last 10 he was much more consistent. But a concussion can be a tough deal. It can take a very long ime to recover from a concussion. No one knows what Justin went throuh. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he comes out this year like he started last year.

The last 10 games he had an 0-6 scoreless game against Memphis, 2 points against St. Louis, 5 pts 1 rb and 4 fouls against Butler, 7 pts on 2-7 shooting against Dayton. He played great against Duquesne and Fordham, but that hardly makes for a consistent last 10 games.

Maybe the concussion did affect him, but after the Vanderbilt game on 12/6 he played above average in 3 games: Duquesne, Fordham, and Va Tech, only one of which is a respectable opponent. A full 80 days after the concussion he played 5 games: 4.6 ppg, 3-15 3pt fgs, 3 rpg, 4 asst., 9 to, 4 stls, 3 fouls/game, in 20mpg. I will concede that for some people perhaps 80 days isn't enough, certainly a different sport but Crosby was out a very long time for the Penguins as an example.

I'll give you the first 8 games, but being consistent for only 25% of the season means he was in fact inconsistent.

[waggy]

Justin took a pretty hard fall I thought. I don't think there is any question his numbers would have been better if that didn't happen. Year 1 he had Dez in front of him, and he still was helping the team at the end of the year. He's got two years left, and I'm in his corner.

[drudy23]

He's a talented, but immature. And he's not talented enough for the immaturity not to matter.

If he grows up, he could probably give us a BJ Raymond turnaround. But that's on him. There are some people that see the light and make the change. There are others that will say people are trying to keep them down, and blame everyone else.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Good god not the concussion shit again...

[mistabeecee41]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.

[Juice]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.

(Slams head against table) Really tattoos? You think tattoos indicate bad character? Jesus Mother F'in Christ.

[LA Muskie]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.
I think this is ludicrous.

[GoMuskies]

Is there any non-cracker who plays for Xavier and DOESN'T have tattoos?!?

[Juice]

Is there any non-cracker who plays for Xavier and DOESN'T have tattoos?!?

You know who else was a classless SOB who had tattoos?

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/774289842.jpg?1369454758

Just look at that thug with all that ink.

[kyxu]

Is there any non-cracker who plays for Xavier and DOESN'T have tattoos?!?

I could be wrong, but I don't think Tu Holloway had any tattoos.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I thought Holloway and Lyons were the origin of Zip'em'up.

Anyway, I will speak for my self by saying that as a 22 year old sophomore he should have showed at least consistent effort all year whether his numbers were consistent or not. Too many times I saw him totally disappear, slack off on defense, fail to crash the boards, and fail to move on offense. Fact is, yes Dee and Justin were both sophomores but Dee was a 19-20 year old sophomore. Those years make a huge difference for kids that age.

I am not writing the kid off, but Kamall looks like an energy/garbage type of player and with the addition of Abell and hopefully Vez I think Martin's time goes down if he doesn't shape up. I am not saying for next year, I am saying for 2014-15 when he is a senior and has the ability to transfer to another program and not sit out. At that point, Richards and Vez would be sophomores and Abell would eligible to play. Don't forget that Swift would be a freshman and he is so far looking like a 3/4 combo forward.

Richards does not look like a guy who will walk in and contribute right away, but he could be by his sophomore year.

[PMI]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.

Not only is this an outrageous pots, but it's inaccurate. Justin Martin was not the founder of Zip Em Up, and if he were, that would have been one of his finest contributions to date, as Zip Em Up is one of the greatest slogans in sports, that I for one am proud of. But are you honestly going to go there? It comes down to character issues because he has tattoos? If you are over the age of 70 or so, I suppose I can chalk it up to different generations, but still, that's a pretty ridiculous assumption.

For us people in the real world, it most certainly comes down to what he does on the court, as long as he's doing three things off the court: staying academically eligible, staying behaviorally eligible, and genuinely working hard on his game. Outside of those things, all most of us care about is the player he is on game days. Tattoos? Not so much.

[bigdiggins]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.

I have a problem with Martin's tattoos if they are the reason he couldn't make a three point shot after Dec 6th, or bother to get back down court before the guy he was supposed to be guarding did.

Also, how many posts have we seen saying that Randolph will start ahead of Dee. I interpret those ideas as evidence of people's frustration with Dee's play. I will however say that while Dee's performance may have been inconsistent his effort was not.

[BBC 08]

Someone touched on it earlier, but I think it comes down to character issues. Everybody outside of Semaj + Trav we're painfully inconsistent last year, yet much of the wrath seems to be coming down on Justin Martin. I was personally more frustrated by Dee's inconsistencies last year - but nobody is writing him off yet. Justin Martin is a 23 year old junior-to-be with tattoos and was the founder of the 'Zip 'Em Up' movement. Like it or not, this has more to do with people writing him off than his play on the court.

Dave Whitley, is that you?

[MHettel]

I dont have tatoos, and wont. I prefer that my kids never get them, but if they do, I hope they dont get the ones that later limit your ability to get a respectable job (neck, hands, face, lower arms, etc). those things are PERMANENT. You ever go to lawyer with a neck tatoo? Exactly.

Anyway. Here is the part that I dont get. Justin Martin has no job and therefore no income. He's got a kid. But he's got tousands of dollars in tatoos as well. Does it strike anyone else that maybe Justin doesnt have his head screwed on correctly? Do these facts speak to his priorities?

Lets talk about the concussion. lets say 10 guys have an identical concussive head injuries. Literally identical, although it's not possible, lets assume this is a controlled experiment and the severity and symptoms are identical. Of the 10, 1 or 2 guys just gut their way through it and nobody really knows that these guys have been hurt. They just bite the bullet and push on. These are the people in our society that become Army Rangers and Navy Seals. Tough as nails, and nothing can get to them.

Then, there is this group of 6-7 guys who genuinely acknowledge their injury and take a reasonable amount of time to take care of it. They are not exactly "tough as nails", but they aren't trying to get excess sympathy or handouts. This, by the way constitutes the MAJORITY of the population.

Then you have the last 1-2 guys in our experiement that can simply be called "malingerers", and manage to stay "injured" far longer than everyone else in our experiment These are the guys that always overplay every situation so as to find a way to take the easy road. these are the guys that wind up on workmans comp for an minor injury that EVERYONE has had. These are the guys that are first in line for handouts. These are also the kind of guys that spend thousands of dollars on tatoos instead of putting food in the mouth of their toddler.

If Tu Holoway or Mark Lyons get a concussion and miss a game or 2, then I buy it 100%. David West was a warrior and would only miss the absolute minimum amount of time, and not let an injury be an excuse. Justin Cage or Stanley Burrell would have battled through ANY situation / circumstances and still held themselves to the HIGHEST level of accountability.

Justin Matin is not Jeff Robinson. Robinson did not have an attitude problem, or convey poor body language. Sure Robinson wasn't a great player for XU, but it was never related to his attitude (which you can control), but rather related to his passive personality (which he cannot control).

Martin chooses the hangdog expressions. he chooses to play lazy. And in my opinion, he chooses to take the easy road whenver it's presented.

My typicall disclaimer applies. PLEASE prove me wrong Justin. PLEASE become BJ Raymond. PLEASE give everything you have to this team and become a leader, a winner, and make the most of this opportunity.

To quickly illustrate another example, there is a Astros pitcher named Erik Bedard that started with the Orioles and was traded to the Mariners for ADAM JONES about 6 years ago. This guys was on and off the DL for 3-4 straight seasons, and when he'd pitch he'd pull himself out of the game as he approached 100 pitches. the Mariners wasted an all-star to get him, then paid him probably $30M to get maybe 30 starts out of him. He QUICKLY got a reputation in the clubhouse as a soft "malingerer." 3 years after the Mariners let him go for basically nothing, he pitched against the Mariners last Friday night and had a NO-HITTER with one out in the 7th and pulled himself out of the game. he later had a quote to the effect that he'd "rather pitch a few more years in the majors than ruin his career trying to chase a no-no (he had thrown 109 pitches at that point). the Astros lost.

[GoMuskies]

Bedard doesn't pitch in the Majors. He pitches for the Astros.

[Milhouse]

I just don't think he has a very high Basketball IQ. Couldn't tell you how many times I thought dumb play dumb foul etc... last year in regards to him. Where as looking at Semaj/trav etc... always knowing where the ball is to pass out etc....I'm all for him proving us wrong but I'm not optimistic that it will happen.

[Juice]

I dont have tatoos, and wont. I prefer that my kids never get them, but if they do, I hope they dont get the ones that later limit your ability to get a respectable job (neck, hands, face, lower arms, etc). those things are PERMANENT. You ever go to lawyer with a neck tatoo? Exactly.

Anyway. Here is the part that I dont get. Justin Martin has no job and therefore no income. He's got a kid. But he's got tousands of dollars in tatoos as well. Does it strike anyone else that maybe Justin doesnt have his head screwed on correctly? Do these facts speak to his priorities?

Lets talk about the concussion. lets say 10 guys have an identical concussive head injuries. Literally identical, although it's not possible, lets assume this is a controlled experiment and the severity and symptoms are identical. Of the 10, 1 or 2 guys just gut their way through it and nobody really knows that these guys have been hurt. They just bite the bullet and push on. These are the people in our society that become Army Rangers and Navy Seals. Tough as nails, and nothing can get to them.

Then, there is this group of 6-7 guys who genuinely acknowledge their injury and take a reasonable amount of time to take care of it. They are not exactly "tough as nails", but they aren't trying to get excess sympathy or handouts. This, by the way constitutes the MAJORITY of the population.

Then you have the last 1-2 guys in our experiement that can simply be called "malingerers", and manage to stay "injured" far longer than everyone else in our experiment These are the guys that always overplay every situation so as to find a way to take the easy road. these are the guys that wind up on workmans comp for an minor injury that EVERYONE has had. These are the guys that are first in line for handouts. These are also the kind of guys that spend thousands of dollars on tatoos instead of putting food in the mouth of their toddler.

If Tu Holoway or Mark Lyons get a concussion and miss a game or 2, then I buy it 100%. David West was a warrior and would only miss the absolute minimum amount of time, and not let an injury be an excuse. Justin Cage or Stanley Burrell would have battled through ANY situation / circumstances and still held themselves to the HIGHEST level of accountability.

Justin Matin is not Jeff Robinson. Robinson did not have an attitude problem, or convey poor body language. Sure Robinson wasn't a great player for XU, but it was never related to his attitude (which you can control), but rather related to his passive personality (which he cannot control).

Martin chooses the hangdog expressions. he chooses to play lazy. And in my opinion, he chooses to take the easy road whenver it's presented.

My typicall disclaimer applies. PLEASE prove me wrong Justin. PLEASE become BJ Raymond. PLEASE give everything you have to this team and become a leader, a winner, and make the most of this opportunity.

To quickly illustrate another example, there is a Astros pitcher named Erik Bedard that started with the Orioles and was traded to the Mariners for ADAM JONES about 6 years ago. This guys was on and off the DL for 3-4 straight seasons, and when he'd pitch he'd pull himself out of the game as he approached 100 pitches. the Mariners wasted an all-star to get him, then paid him probably $30M to get maybe 30 starts out of him. He QUICKLY got a reputation in the clubhouse as a soft "malingerer." 3 years after the Mariners let him go for basically nothing, he pitched against the Mariners last Friday night and had a NO-HITTER with one out in the 7th and pulled himself out of the game. he later had a quote to the effect that he'd "rather pitch a few more years in the majors than ruin his career trying to chase a no-no (he had thrown 109 pitches at that point). the Astros lost.

Do you even know what Bedard's stats were at that point? What a horrible analogy. He had pitched 6 1/3, allowed 3 runs, 1 earned, and walked 5. It's not like he was dealing. He wasn't even in line for the win. It wasn't selfish at all. I would much rather a pitcher save himself from injury and therefore pitch the rest of the season rather than damage his arm and some meaningless no hitter. The only reason he would chase a no hitter would be for selfish reasons and his own glory. And let's not forget that the guy had three shoulder surgeries.

[Madfan]

Justin doesn't have a kid-that's his niece you see at the games.

[Madfan]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dee have multiple injuries? After his wrist injury, I was talking to a friend that has seats near the parents and they told me that they heard Dee's mother say that he probably shouldn't play, but Dee's a tough kid and as long as he thought he could contribute he would play. That they would have to rip his arm off for him not to at least try.(I'm prefacing here) Dee got his bell rung in the VCU game and came back quickly (maybe too quickly). Needless to say this solidified him as one of may favorite players on this roster. I guess I'm one of those guys that will take a player with Heart all day long.

[nkymuskie]

Justin doesn't have a kid-that's his niece you see at the games.

This. Justin doesn't have a kid. Dante did have a kid his senior year. Come on Juice, you gotta get your facts straight before you start digging on the guy.

I don't know how the rest of Justins basketball career will turn out, but he still has two seasons to turn his Xavier career around. I'll wait until then to pass judgement. He seems to be a guy that his teammates really love.

[PMI]

I think what MHettel is trying to say, is that there are the 10-15% or so of people who are tough as nails and can sustain more physical pain than your average person; then there is your large majority in the middle who aren't soft, but aren't Navy Seals either; then there are your softer people who tend to nurse injuries, or even discomfort, far longer than most would require; then there are your REALLY soft people who can't even play sports due to the chance that they might later be uncomfortable; then there are your guys who take walks in casual slow-pitch softball. I think that pretty much sums it up.

But it's totally cool that we've gotten to the point where the guy's character is being downright targeted because he has a kid or tattoos or whatever. MHettel and the likes are so totally qualified to make those judgements, since they're all so very close to him and know his whole life story.

Personally, I think we should stick to his play on the court and not judge his character unless he gives us some valid reason to do so.

[paulxu]

Bedard doesn't pitch in the Majors. He pitches for the Astros.

Heh.

[MHettel]

I think what MHettel is trying to say, is that there are the 10-15% or so of people who are tough as nails and can sustain more physical pain than your average person; then there is your large majority in the middle who aren't soft, but aren't Navy Seals either; then there are your softer people who tend to nurse injuries, or even discomfort, far longer than most would require; then there are your REALLY soft people who can't even play sports due to the chance that they might later be uncomfortable; then there are your guys who take walks in casual slow-pitch softball. I think that pretty much sums it up.

But it's totally cool that we've gotten to the point where the guy's character is being downright targeted because he has a kid or tattoos or whatever. MHettel and the likes are so totally qualified to make those judgements, since they're all so very close to him and know his whole life story.

Personally, I think we should stick to his play on the court and not judge his character unless he gives us some valid reason to do so.

Ok. His play on the court was pathetic. Some people can accept the head injury as a reason why. Other people might view the head injury as a convienient excuse to "shrink". Bottom line was that he was absolutely terrible last year.

And, again I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong if Martin has a big, productive year.

[PMI]

Ok. His play on the court was pathetic. Some people can accept the head injury as a reason why. Other people might view the head injury as a convienient excuse to "shrink". Bottom line was that he was absolutely terrible last year.

And, again I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong if Martin has a big, productive year.

I'm generally with you, if you replace your extreme words like "pathetic" and "terrible" with more reasonable ones like "inconsistent" and "frustrating." I agree with you that it's not reasonable to SOLELY blame his head injury for his struggles. And of course I agree that I'd love to be proven wrong. But it's a major stretch to try to read into the most personal areas of his life by what you see on the basketball court. And I say this as someone who's openly questioned whether or not he really wants to put the effort in to be great. There are lines though. Judging him based on his tattoos or a child you simply assumed was his crosses that line in my opinion.

[XUFan09]

Absolutely terrible? No. He failed to fulfill his talent in his sophomore year, finishing the season with pedestrian numbers on offense and inconsistency on defense. More like absolutely average (and rather disappointing). Why don't we avoid negative hyperbole about a player when talking on a public board.

[XUFan09]

I'm generally with you, if you replace your extreme words like "pathetic" and "terrible" with more reasonable ones like "inconsistent" and "frustrating." I agree with you that it's not reasonable to SOLELY blame his head injury for his struggles. And of course I agree that I'd love to be proven wrong. But it's a major stretch to try to read into the most personal areas of his life by what you see on the basketball court. And I say this as someone who's openly questioned whether or not he really wants to put the effort in to be great. There are lines though. Judging him based on his tattoos or a child you simply assumed was his crosses that line in my opinion.

Yup.

[xavierj]

Concussions are a serious issue. Before the concussion the guy was on fire and the 2nd best player on the team and that was through a third of the season. After the concussion he was never the same. Coincidence? I have a friend who had a son get a concussion last year, it took him 8 months to be able to see straight again and not have to take ritalin to focus. You never know with a head injury, regardless of your pain tolerance. That would be like calling a guy in a wheel chair a wimp because he can't get up and walk.

[cheeba]

I took my 5 year old to the Xavier's Little Dribblers basketball camp about a month ago. For the last half hour or so, the kids got to interact with the players. Justin Martin was by far the nicest player that my child encountered. In my eyes, that spoke volumes about his character. I was truly impressed with Justin as a person. I have become a fan of his as a result.

[Juice]

This. Justin doesn't have a kid. Dante did have a kid his senior year. Come on Juice, you gotta get your facts straight before you start digging on the guy.

I don't know how the rest of Justins basketball career will turn out, but he still has two seasons to turn his Xavier career around. I'll wait until then to pass judgement. He seems to be a guy that his teammates really love.

I wasn't digging on any X player, just the posters that were.

[LA Muskie]

Concussion symptoms and effects have 0% to do with pain tolerance. 0%.

[XU-PA]

all this reminds me of something someone very wise said long ago, to someone playing highschool, or maybe junior high, ball. you can't pick your coach. If you want to be on the team, play and shut up. dear martin haters, you can't pick your Xavier players. if you, like me, are a die hard fan, alum, bleed blue and always will. Cheer,shout, cry, enjoy, be a fan, and take your clueless opinions about why Justin or Jeff, or Tu or Dee etc plays like they do, and stuff em. be a fan, you have no clue what is happening in the collective heads of these guys, what life is like for them (some have kids, some don't, some have tatoos, some don't) Christ, these guys put it on the court for the University, some risking their necks on a regular basis. They give up these 4 or 5 years, 2 a days, early mornings, late nights, weekend workouts, summer classes, it's a job that runs much longer than your 37 1/2 hour week. a small percentage will go on to the professional level. Most will leave, they'll have the diploma which they have worked their asses off for, and go out into the job market just like you and me.
It makes me sick to read people criticizing everything from how long it took Justin to recover from as concussion, to his choice of what to do with his money.
Like Byron, and Justin, and Brandon, and Jamal, and Derrick, and Tyrone, and Joe, and Jeff, and Brad and all the rest of them, I love the work Justin and Semaj, and Dee and Matt are doing now and will continue to do because they do it for me.

[Madfan]

all this reminds me of something someone very wise said long ago, to someone playing highschool, or maybe junior high, ball. you can't pick your coach. If you want to be on the team, play and shut up. dear martin haters, you can't pick your Xavier players. if you, like me, are a die hard fan, alum, bleed blue and always will. Cheer,shout, cry, enjoy, be a fan, and take your clueless opinions about why Justin or Jeff, or Tu or Dee etc plays like they do, and stuff em. be a fan, you have no clue what is happening in the collective heads of these guys, what life is like for them (some have kids, some don't, some have tatoos, some don't) Christ, these guys put it on the court for the University, some risking their necks on a regular basis. They give up these 4 or 5 years, 2 a days, early mornings, late nights, weekend workouts, summer classes, it's a job that runs much longer than your 37 1/2 hour week. a small percentage will go on to the professional level. Most will leave, they'll have the diploma which they have worked their asses off for, and go out into the job market just like you and me.
It makes me sick to read people criticizing everything from how long it took Justin to recover from as concussion, to his choice of what to do with his money.
Like Byron, and Justin, and Brandon, and Jamal, and Derrick, and Tyrone, and Joe, and Jeff, and Brad and all the rest of them, I love the work Justin and Semaj, and Dee and Matt are doing now and will continue to do because they do it for me.

Wow-finally someone that gets it. Kudos

[PMI]

all this reminds me of something someone very wise said long ago, to someone playing highschool, or maybe junior high, ball. you can't pick your coach. If you want to be on the team, play and shut up. dear martin haters, you can't pick your Xavier players. if you, like me, are a die hard fan, alum, bleed blue and always will. Cheer,shout, cry, enjoy, be a fan, and take your clueless opinions about why Justin or Jeff, or Tu or Dee etc plays like they do, and stuff em. be a fan, you have no clue what is happening in the collective heads of these guys, what life is like for them (some have kids, some don't, some have tatoos, some don't) Christ, these guys put it on the court for the University, some risking their necks on a regular basis. They give up these 4 or 5 years, 2 a days, early mornings, late nights, weekend workouts, summer classes, it's a job that runs much longer than your 37 1/2 hour week. a small percentage will go on to the professional level. Most will leave, they'll have the diploma which they have worked their asses off for, and go out into the job market just like you and me.
It makes me sick to read people criticizing everything from how long it took Justin to recover from as concussion, to his choice of what to do with his money.
Like Byron, and Justin, and Brandon, and Jamal, and Derrick, and Tyrone, and Joe, and Jeff, and Brad and all the rest of them, I love the work Justin and Semaj, and Dee and Matt are doing now and will continue to do because they do it for me.

I am with you that there should never be any real player bashing on here. But I think there's more to being a die hard fan than just saying, "Well, we can't pick our players, so we should just love everyone we have and never criticize." There's nothing wrong with analyzing a player fairly if it's done in a respectful manner. Bashing is not right, but criticizing should not be off limits if it's done the right way. Yes, players make sacrifices for Xavier and most all of us appreciate that. They also get free educations that most of us paid a LOT of money for, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to work hard and to be concerned about their progress. I'm with you that it's bullshit to hear people complaining about how long it takes for him to recover from a concussion, or how he chooses to spend his money, or whatever. That is, what, one or two people here? The vast majority of us have been completely fair about evaluating Justin Martin the PLAYER, and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

[SemajParlor]

Lol at any Xavier player being a founder of the "Zip Em Up" movement. Why do people write things when it's just not true?