Unrest at Wake ramped up a notch

[SM#24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/wake-forest-fans-erect-billboard-demanding-firing-coach-042842808.html

[PMI]

Seriously, anyone with even a spec of sense could've called this the day they hired Bzdelik. Still one of the great head-scratching hires in my memory.

[XU 87]

I understood with their reasoning when they fired Dino. His style of play wasn't going to work in March (See also Skip Prosser). But this was a terrible hire. When Wake played at Cintas a few years ago, I thought they were the most poorly coached team I'd seen since Lappas' UMass teams.

[boozehound]

Also why schools shouldn't let their ADs bring their buddies in as coaches.

[PMI]

Firing Gaudio I thought was a real risk. He was an excellent recruiter who had a pretty good resume. If he were still there, I'm pretty confident they'd have had a run or two by now. But obviously Wake is a very attractive program that felt it could do better. Fine. But firing Gaudio to hire this clown? It never made any sense whatsoever. Vinny Cerato and Mike Millbury could've seen that this was a terrible swap. I feel for the Wake fans because I can guarantee that every one of them knew the basketball program had essentially offed itself with this move. Who knows how long it'll take before they clean house and fix that mess.

[DC Muskie]

...who had a pretty good resume... Recruiting resume? Maybe. Coaching resume, not so much.

In the new ACC, Wake is going to be buried at the bottom for a long, long time. I too feel very bad for them.

[PMI]

Recruiting resume? Maybe. Coaching resume, not so much.

In the new ACC, Wake is going to be buried at the bottom for a long, long time. I too feel very bad for them.

Maybe for recruiting? He was bringing in top 5 classes. We could rehash our argument about his coaching all day, but it's pointless. You think he's pathetic and I think it was too early to not give him the benefit of the doubt given his undeniable excellence in recruiting. But what I think we both know is that Dino Gaudio is John freaking Wooden compared to Jeff Bzdelik. If you fire Gaudio and bring in some stud up and comer or established solid coach, fine. It's a reasonable risk to take. But you don't trade a dollar bill for a Sudanese penny.

[GoMuskies]

Gaudio didn't exactly have a whole lot of interest in his services once he was out at Wake, so I'm not really going to question the decision to get rid of him. Bdzelik is obviously terrible, though.

[PMI]

Gaudio didn't exactly have a whole lot of interest in his services once he was out at Wake, so I'm not really going to question the decision to get rid of him. Bdzelik is obviously terrible, though.

How do you know there wasn't a lot of interest in him? You can't just say that because he's on TV now that nobody wanted him as a coach. Perhaps you know something more than I do. In any case, the guy took over in a very difficult situation and seemed to be going in the right direction. Unfortunately, like most coaches who don't stick around, he had poor showings in conference and NCAA tournaments. But the sample size was extremely small, and he was using a young, talented, totally revamped roster. I think they pulled the plug too early on him, unless they could've done better, which obviously they did quite the opposite of.

[GoMuskies]

I suppose it's possible that he turned down a chance to continue his coaching career for the lucrative opportunity to be the #12 college basketball analyst at ESPN. But I find that highly unlikely.

[LA Muskie]

I thought they pulled the trigger way too quickly on Dino but I assumed that was because they had someone they really wanted and were worried about losing out, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Then they hired Bdzelik and lost all credibility.

The sad thing is that the billboard is counterproductive. Even if the school was considering firing them (and I can't imagine it was prepared to fire either of them at this point in the year), it couldn't do so now without looking like they were placating the extreme element of its fanbase.

I think both will be gone after next year. But it will have nothing to do with the billboard or any other rumbling. When that happens, beware for the inevitable rumors and innuendo about a certain XU employee and the vacancy.

[GoMuskies]

No Xavier coach is leaving X for Wake these days unless Xavier fired them first. This isn't 2000 anymore.

Maybe they'll be interested in Pat Kelsey if he can get some notoriety for winning games at Winthrop instead of just for making press conference political statements.

[LA Muskie]

No Xavier coach is leaving X for Wake these days unless Xavier fired them first. This isn't 2000 anymore.

Maybe they'll be interested in Pat Kelsey if he can get some notoriety for winning games at Winthrop instead of just for making press conference political statements.
I would hope Kelsey would get some "fame" for winning instead. But otherwise I agree. I didn't mean to imply that I thought a certain XU employee would leave for that job, just that the rumors inevitably will flow.

[DC Muskie]

Maybe for recruiting? He was bringing in top 5 classes. We could rehash our argument about his coaching all day, but it's pointless. You think he's pathetic and I think it was too early to not give him the benefit of the doubt given his undeniable excellence in recruiting. But what I think we both know is that Dino Gaudio is John freaking Wooden compared to Jeff Bzdelik. If you fire Gaudio and bring in some stud up and comer or established solid coach, fine. It's a reasonable risk to take. But you don't trade a dollar bill for a Sudanese penny.

Yeah maybe. You look at his three years at Wake, I'm looking at this whole career in terms of recruiting. Bzdelik is still pulling 4 star recruits. It doesn't matter who the coach is. So Dino's recruiting at Wake was fine, but he couldn't and didn't recruit well at Army and Loyola.

Undeniable excellence in recruiting is pretty laughable.

But I do agree with the idea that firing Dino and replacing with this guy was not the best move. But I have no issues removing Dino in general.

[xubrew]

Seriously, anyone with even a spec of sense could've called this the day they hired Bzdelik. Still one of the great head-scratching hires in my memory.

Everyone with a spec of sense did call it when it happened. One of the dumbest administrative moves in history. Not college basketball history. Not basketball history. Not sports history. ALL of history. It was a very very very very very stupid move.

[SM#24]

I've always thought that when Dino was let go, there was something more to the situation than what has been made public. Mostly because they kept the entire staff intact and replaced only Dino. That is unusual.

[LA Muskie]

I've always thought that when Dino was let go, there was something more to the situation than what has been made public. Mostly because they kept the entire staff intact and replaced only Dino. That is unusual.
It's not all that unusual when you are trying to save the incoming recruiting class.

[SM#24]

I can't think of any other instances where either health or NCAA violations were not involved.

[LA Muskie]

I can't think of any other instances where either health or NCAA violations were not involved.
It's rare that an entire staff would be retained. But it's not unusual at all for there to be some retention (often significant) for recruiting reasons. I think it was yet another dumb move, but their thinking was clearly that they thought Bdzelik was a better game coach and wanted him to be able to take off from Dino's recruits and not start off with a backward step.

[GoMuskies]

It's very odd when you consider Wellman's statement in that article that they Bdzelik's sole job the first two years was to clean up the program. If the program needed cleaning up, why would you keep most of the people who created the mess in the first place around?

[PMI]

No Xavier coach is leaving X for Wake these days unless Xavier fired them first. This isn't 2000 anymore.

Maybe they'll be interested in Pat Kelsey if he can get some notoriety for winning games at Winthrop instead of just for making press conference political statements.

I certainly hope you're right, and Xavier is obviously a much better job now than it was then, but don't underestimate how attractive a job Wake Forest is. They can definitely choose from a long list of good coaches before settling for the Jeff Bzdelik's of the world.


Yeah maybe. You look at his three years at Wake, I'm looking at this whole career in terms of recruiting. Bzdelik is still pulling 4 star recruits. It doesn't matter who the coach is. So Dino's recruiting at Wake was fine, but he couldn't and didn't recruit well at Army and Loyola.

Undeniable excellence in recruiting is pretty laughable.

But I do agree with the idea that firing Dino and replacing with this guy was not the best move. But I have no issues removing Dino in general.

Laughable? I would call the #3 ranked class that includes two 5 stars undeniably excellent, unless perhaps you're John Calipari. Did you really, honestly just drop Army and Loyola? Come on. Nobody can recruit there. Nobody. That is so inapplicable it doesn't even merit an acknowledgment. As for Bzdelik pulling 4 stars, so does your boy Martelli at St. Joe's every once in awhile. The fact is, the vast majority of Bzdelik's recruits have been 3 stars, with a couple of 2 stars thrown in there. He isn't pulling in any top 25 classes, and won't anytime soon. That's a FAR, FAR drop off from a top 3 class, and is frankly unacceptable for a place like Wake. And then he ends up coaching them down a path to hell to boot.


I've always thought that when Dino was let go, there was something more to the situation than what has been made public. Mostly because they kept the entire staff intact and replaced only Dino. That is unusual.

There may be something to that, and it would probably help explain how quickly they cut ties with Gaudio, considering they're plan was to replace him with Bzdelik. I remember they had those rape accusations around that time but I'm not really sure how that turned out. In any case, it was bizarre.

[DC Muskie]

Laughable? I would call the #3 ranked class that includes two 5 stars undeniably excellent, unless perhaps you're John Calipari. Did you really, honestly just drop Army and Loyola? Come on. Nobody can recruit there. Nobody. That is so inapplicable it doesn't even merit an acknowledgment. As for Bzdelik pulling 4 stars, so does your boy Martelli at St. Joe's every once in awhile. The fact is, the vast majority of Bzdelik's recruits have been 3 stars, with a couple of 2 stars thrown in there. He isn't pulling in any top 25 classes, and won't anytime soon. That's a FAR, FAR drop off from a top 3 class, and is frankly unacceptable for a place like Wake. And then he ends up coaching them down a path to hell to boot.

I knew you'd dismiss the Army and Loyola argument. It has merit, because you should be able to at least be competitive at some point during your time either of those places. Recruit some guys who can play.

Here's the thing with that awesome class. They were assembled because Skip Prosser was alive. Dino didn't land that class after he was named coach, he just kept it together. How many kids who plan on going to Wake are going to drop Wake because the coach died? Not many. In fact, none.

He followed up that class with a class that was that didn't even land in the top 25. Their class in 2010 had one top 50 recruit. Hell even Florida State can do that. Georgia Tech had a top 5 recruiting class in 2009 and they canned that guy, who coached them to a Final Four by the way, two years later.

So basically your argument is, Skip and his staff brought in a great class in 2008, ergo, Dino is an excellent recruiter. Okay. Gotcha. It's unacceptable at Wake to drop from a top five to not being in the top 300, when that was basically the status during Dino's tenure on Skip's bench. One year does not make a great recruiter. Especially when you point to his previous stops where he couldn't find players who could dominate the Patriot and MAAC. Pete Gillen could recruit. Skip Prosser could recruit. Pete without Skip, Skip without Dino, those guys proved they could recruit at different places. Dino without Skip, not so much.

Here's the thing...and really there is no other argument about it. Dino didn't earn that job at all. His past record, which you choose to ignore, demonstrates that. He took over after a horrible tragedy and the only reason anyone anywhere ever talks about him is because the guy who replaced him is the only person short of you and me so completely unworthy enough to get the Wake job.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Another board I frequent has a fan base who would like to fire the current coach. They are currently looking for an assistant and Dino's name came up. Another poster speculated that Dino was damaged goods do to the sex scandal/ Cover up that may have involved Jeff Teague. The same scandal that others speculated led to Kelsey's "retirement".

[LA Muskie]

Another board I frequent has a fan base who would like to fire the current coach. They are currently looking for an assistant and Dino's name came up. Another poster speculated that Dino was damaged goods do to the sex scandal/ Cover up that may have involved Jeff Teague. The same scandal that others speculated led to Kelsey's "retirement".
I find it hard to believe that is what is keeping him from getting a job. Like Hollywood, time on the NCAA "blacklist" is rarely long-lived, if lived at all. (See, e.g., Steve Alford.) If you can bring in some recruits and win some games, someone somewhere will hire you. If you can do all of that at the High Major level, then a High Major will hire you. Heck even coaches under "show cause" orders still get jobs.

[XU 87]

Everyone with a spec of sense did call it when it happened. One of the dumbest administrative moves in history. Not college basketball history. Not basketball history. Not sports history. ALL of history. It was a very very very very very stupid move.

I think Napolean invading Russia was stupider. But this hiring was a close second.

[xubrew]

I knew you'd dismiss the Army and Loyola argument. It has merit, because you should be able to at least be competitive at some point during your time either of those places. Recruit some guys who can play.

Here's the thing with that awesome class. They were assembled because Skip Prosser was alive. Dino didn't land that class after he was named coach, he just kept it together. How many kids who plan on going to Wake are going to drop Wake because the coach died? Not many. In fact, none.

He followed up that class with a class that was that didn't even land in the top 25. Their class in 2010 had one top 50 recruit. Hell even Florida State can do that. Georgia Tech had a top 5 recruiting class in 2009 and they canned that guy, who coached them to a Final Four by the way, two years later.

So basically your argument is, Skip and his staff brought in a great class in 2008, ergo, Dino is an excellent recruiter. Okay. Gotcha. It's unacceptable at Wake to drop from a top five to not being in the top 300, when that was basically the status during Dino's tenure on Skip's bench. One year does not make a great recruiter. Especially when you point to his previous stops where he couldn't find players who could dominate the Patriot and MAAC. Pete Gillen could recruit. Skip Prosser could recruit. Pete without Skip, Skip without Dino, those guys proved they could recruit at different places. Dino without Skip, not so much.

Here's the thing...and really there is no other argument about it. Dino didn't earn that job at all. His past record, which you choose to ignore, demonstrates that. He took over after a horrible tragedy and the only reason anyone anywhere ever talks about him is because the guy who replaced him is the only person short of you and me so completely unworthy enough to get the Wake job.

DC, are you actually arguing that firing Gaudio to make room for Bzdelik after they had been to two straight NCAAs was somehow a good idea??

The stated reason at the time was that they needed someone who could go deeper into the postseason. Maybe they do need someone who can do that, but Bzdelik clearly was not that person. Bzdelik had won one conference tournament game in his life. One. One more than zero. He'd never won an NCAA game. That's they're go-to guy to get them deeper into the NCAAs. In the two years Gaudio was the coach, they were upset in the first round as a #4 seed after having a good year, and beaten in the round of 32 by top seeded Kentucky the following year. Not great, but not bad, and much better than Bzdelik's entire body of work.

The AD hired Bzdelik because he was a person friend. That's the only reason. And it was an incredibly stupid move. Case and point, Wake's current program.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think anyone said that hiring Bzdelik was a good idea. Just that firing Gaudio wasn't a particularly bad idea.

[MADXSTER]

As much extra rope that UC has given Cronin, Wake took away from Gaudio.

[DC Muskie]

DC, are you actually arguing that firing Gaudio to make room for Bzdelik after they had been to two straight NCAAs was somehow a good idea??

No.

[xubrew]

I find it hard to believe that is what is keeping him from getting a job. Like Hollywood, time on the NCAA "blacklist" is rarely long-lived, if lived at all. (See, e.g., Steve Alford.) If you can bring in some recruits and win some games, someone somewhere will hire you. If you can do all of that at the High Major level, then a High Major will hire you. Heck even coaches under "show cause" orders still get jobs.

There were those around the Wake program that vaguely alluded to some sort of scandal. Maybe there was one, but it wasn't the focal point of why they said they made a change. They said they wanted someone who could take them deeper into the postseason.

I guess I'm a skeptic. I can't help but wonder if the reason that it's being brought up now is so it will look like Bzdelik has actually done something, when in reality he has not done anything other than turn wake into a sub-NIT caliber program. Now, the AD is saying that the guy who had just one conference tournament win ever that he hired to take them deep into the postseason (and who also just happens to be a good friend of his) is talking about how he has cleaned up the program. Funny that nothing was said about how it needed cleaning up, nor was any explanation given as to exactly how he cleaned it up. An explanation would be necessary, since no one can really see what was wrong in the first place.