Chris Mack Coaching Carousel Thread

[Muskie]

Before we start seeing Chris Mack to ...... threads. Let's put them all in here. I personally don't see him going anywhere.

[Muskie]

And one Minnesota columnist (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/200456721.html) thinks he would be a good fit. Although the reasons don't make sense to me.

[Masterofreality]

Minny? Kind of a stretch.

A "Villa 7 guy" and they "got him his first head coaching job?" Uh, no.

Xavier guy, in house candidate who Mike Bobinski loved. Sorry. Villa 7 doesn't play here.

[THRILLHOUSE]

And one Minnesota columnist (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/200456721.html) thinks he would be a good fit. Although the reasons don't make sense to me.

The columnist mentioned that Mack is from Ohio and that his wife graduated from UD, but didn't bother mentioning that he is a Xavier alum?

[Muskie]

yeah not the most well researched piece huh.

[MD Muskie]

what is the villa 7?

[DC Muskie]

I like the idea of "moving up to the Big Ten" and coach a team we recently beat in the tournament.

Yup moving up just like the Jeffersons!

[BBC 08]

what is the villa 7?

Coaches conference for assistants: http://www.sportleadership.vcu.edu/villa7/

[GoMuskies]

If Mack were to leave Xavier for Minnesota, it would mean he has a serious lack of judgment. So I'm not going to worry about it either way.

[DC Muskie]

If Mack were to leave Xavier for Minnesota, it would mean he has a serious lack of judgment. So I'm not going to worry about it either way.

Yeah really. I wouldn't be mad at him, that's for sure.

[MHettel]

yawn

[GoMuskies]

Also, insert generic sexist remark about the MN columnist.

[danaandvictory]

I like the idea of "moving up to the Big Ten" and coach a team we recently beat in the tournament.

Yup moving up just like the Jeffersons!

Wasn't there some ludicrous clown of a columnist from Minnesota ripping X the Crawford year about playing minor league basketball right before X beat them? That was a joy.

[DC Muskie]

Wasn't there some ludicrous clown of a columnist from Minnesota ripping X the Crawford year about playing minor league basketball right before X beat them? That was a joy.

Yes the premise was Minnesota would beat Xavier in the tournament, because basically the Gophers spent the entire season losing to Michigan State, Purdue, and Ohio State in conference play.

It was a very 1982 type of argument.

[SpectorJersey]

Here is the article, hilarious!

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/88295567.html?source=error

[ammtd34]

Yes the premise was Minnesota would beat Xavier in the tournament, because basically the Gophers spent the entire season losing to Michigan State, Purdue, and Ohio State in conference play.

It was a very 1982 type of argument.

This?

http://www.thesportsbank.net/minnesota-golden-gophers/ncaa-tournament-preview-minnesota-vs-xavier/

Edit: Nevermind. Though I did like this quote: "Allow me to join the bandwagon that says the Atlantic 10 was ridiculously overrated this year and that Temple along with Xavier and Richmond are going nowhere in the tournament. "

[DC Muskie]

Here is the article, hilarious!

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/88295567.html?source=error

There's a video of this guy saying the same things as well. That we play in a small conference while Minnesota is an entire state that took on the Death Star and shit like that...

[BMoreX]

Here is the article, hilarious!

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/88295567.html?source=error

From the article:
• Minnesota beat Butler. Xavier lost to Butler.

What sound reasoning!

(BTW, thanks for the link. I did not see this 3 years ago but it is great.)

[MD Muskie]

Wasn't there some ludicrous clown of a columnist from Minnesota ripping X the Crawford year about playing minor league basketball right before X beat them? That was a joy.

haha yes. He is a guy that no one from Minneapolis likes. The funny thing is I initially thought he was writing this article until I clicked the link. Now I am just waiting from him to write an article that says they should hire a guy that has won a championship before, say like a Tubby Smith.

[Muskie]

Shannon Russell's response (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2013/03/28/mack-and-minnesota-job-speculation/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)piece. It is spot on.

[BMoreX]

The fact that the MN writer didn't even mention that Mack GRADUATED and PLAYED BASKETBALL at Xavier speaks how lazy of an article it is.

[XUFan09]

Here is the article, hilarious!

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/88295567.html?source=error

Lol I read it three years ago, but now I'm reading through the comments. They're pretty bad, except for every once in awhile you get a Minnesota fan that's like, "What the hell are you talking about?" I'm looking forward to when I reach comments made after the game.

[Masterofreality]

I like the idea of "moving up to the Big Ten" and coach a team we recently beat in the tournament.

Yup moving up just like the Jeffersons!

Well, that guy from the Minneapolis Star Tribune calling Xavier Mid-Major a couple of years ago certainly endeared the Minny program to CMack, I'm sure.

That was right before X administered a Gopher whuppin' that I witnessed in Milwaukee.

[Fireball]

I will preface what I'm about to say by the fact that I've been fooled before, and I'll be fooled again.

But, I just don't see Coach Mack leaving anytime soon. He is from Cincinnati. He played at Xavier. He's been at Xavier in the MCC, and then to A-10, and now in the Big East. He is a huge part of why all that happened, and I would imagine that he takes a ton of pride in the program and his role in growing it further.

Outside of the Kentucky, Duke, or North Carolina jobs opening up and him being offered the position, I think he's at X to stay. Now that we're in a "major" conference, the main reason to leave just isn't there anymore.

[XUFan09]

Our last two coaches left for big gigs at Arizona and Ohio State, which are really good coaching oppportunities. I could see Mack leaving for that level of job maybe. Leaving for Minnesota though would be like when Pete Gillen left for Providence. Xavier is in a much better place here in 2013 than back in 1994.

[GoMuskies]

Ohio State wasn't a great gig when Matta got the job. But Miller to Arizona is definitely a level that Xavier coaches had never been considered for previously.

[Xman95]

Our last two coaches left for big gigs at Arizona and Ohio State, which are really good coaching oppportunities. I could see Mack leaving for that level of job maybe. Leaving for Minnesota though would be like when Pete Gillen left for Providence. Xavier is in a much better place here in 2013 than back in 1994.

I actually think going to Minnesota would be less than Gillen leaving for Providence. At least Pete was going to a much better conference (X was still several years away from the A10). Going from new Big East to Big 10 - and not a power program in the Big 10 - wouldn't make sense from a basketball standpoint. In fact, when comparing the recent history of the two programs, it seems like it would be a step back. They would have to overwhelm him financially.

[Xman95]

Ohio State wasn't a great gig when Matta got the job. But Miller to Arizona is definitely a level that Xavier coaches had never been considered for previously.

But OSU backed up the Brinks truck for Matta compared to what X was paying him. And I'm sure he knew the power of the OSU boosters. Wait, they would never have issues there. Nevermind.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not saying they didn't offer a bunch of money. But the program was a mess. It's not like he was offered the Ohio State job in the shape it's in today.

[RealDeal]

Hard to recruit to MN, too damn cold.

[DC Muskie]

I'm not saying they didn't offer a bunch of money. But the program was a mess. It's not like he was offered the Ohio State job in the shape it's in today.

It's not hard to rebuild at Ohio State. Just about everyone, including Randy Ayers for a little bit, managed to win there.

Throw a great coach like Matta into that situation and it's no surprise Ohio State is where it is.

[Juice]

I'm not saying they didn't offer a bunch of money. But the program was a mess. It's not like he was offered the Ohio State job in the shape it's in today.

But it was more about the potential of the OSU program. Everyone knew that if a halfway competent coach went there then it could quickly become a good program.

[GoMuskies]

Right, it was a potentially very good program. It wasn't like Arizona where Miller stepped into one of the top coaching jobs in the country. Ohio State was a rebuilding job. Maybe not the toughest rebuilding job ever, but a fixer upper nonetheless.

[Xu Red Dogg]

Here is the one important reminder this time of year for us X fans:

The Xavier Head Coach makes < $1,000,000
The Head Coach at (Insert BCS School) makes > $2,000,000

Don't start down the road of "well we are in the Big East now" and "we have all this TV money coming in"... the fact of the matter is that NO XAVIER COACH has ever made more than a million dollars a year. There are low level SEC coaches winning 10 games year making +$2,000,000.

Until this changes, I am worried about every job opening at a BCS level. $$$ talks my friends.

[casualfan]

Here is the one important reminder this time of year for us X fans:

The Xavier Head Coach makes < $1,000,000
The Head Coach at (Insert BCS School) makes > $2,000,000

Don't start down the road of "well we are in the Big East now" and "we have all this TV money coming in"... the fact of the matter is that NO XAVIER COACH has ever made more than a million dollars a year. There are low level SEC coaches winning 10 games year making +$2,000,000.

Until this changes, I am worried about every job opening at a BCS level. $$$ talks my friends.

This 1000 times. Until our coach gets paid like a BCS level head guy these rumors will persist.

2012 salaries (From what i could find):

Chris Mack at Xavier: ~ $500k (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/sweet-sixteen-coaches-and-march-madness-bonuses/2012/03/21/gIQAOn38VS_blog.html)

Tubby Smith at Minnesota: ~ $2,000,000 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/03/25/tubby-smith-fired-by-minnesota-after-best-season-with-the-team/)

I don't care what is going on at your current job, if you have a chance to quadruple your salary you take a long hard look at it.

I'm not saying he'll leave (we're not even sure he's a candidate at this point), but he'd be a fool not to at least listen.

Having said that with the TV money coming in i think it's only a matter of time before Mack gets bumped into that BCS range. He may even try to use some of this speculation to get a raise a la Smart and Jamie Dixon.

[BMoreX]

Doesn't Mack gets paid over $1 mil?

[casualfan]

Doesn't Mack gets paid over $1 mil?

I couldn't find anything more definitive than this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/sweet-sixteen-coaches-and-march-madness-bonuses/2012/03/21/gIQAOn38VS_blog.html)
From the article...

During that same time period at Xavier, Coach Chris Mack earned nearly $485,000.

Having said that I just noticed that number was from 2010 and im sure he's got a considerable raise since then.

[ammtd34]

I couldn't find anything more definitive than this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/sweet-sixteen-coaches-and-march-madness-bonuses/2012/03/21/gIQAOn38VS_blog.html)
From the article...

During that same time period at Xavier, Coach Chris Mack earned nearly $485,000.

Having said that I just noticed that number was from 2010 and im sure he's got a considerable raise since then.

There was a Yahoo article that said Miller was making an estimated 850,000 when he left. Mack's contract was said to have been the most substantial ever offered to a Xavier coach.

[GoMuskies]

I think Miller was going to basically double his salary at Xavier if he had stuck with the decision to turn down Arizona.

[XUFan09]

I couldn't find anything more definitive than this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/sweet-sixteen-coaches-and-march-madness-bonuses/2012/03/21/gIQAOn38VS_blog.html)
From the article...

During that same time period at Xavier, Coach Chris Mack earned nearly $485,000.

Having said that I just noticed that number was from 2010 and im sure he's got a considerable raise since then.

Keep in mind that's just salary. They mention that Rick Pitino's salary is more than $3 million, but with all the bonuses, he made something like $7 million last year.

[casualfan]

Keep in mind that's just salary. They mention that Rick Pitino's salary is more than $3 million, but with all the bonuses, he made something like $7 million last year.

Right, but wouldn't that be true of Tubby's salary as well?

[paulxu]

Here's a really interesting break down with some good research from last year's NCAA participants.
Some of these guys make a LOT of money.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1

It seems like Tubby didn't make the tournament last year. Which maybe kept him from meeting X again.
BTW, how do you go 8-10 in conference play and make the tournament. That's just nuts.

[XUFan09]

Right, but wouldn't that be true of Tubby's salary as well?

I think I saw somewhere that his salary is $1.8 million, making his total income in a good year probably around $2 million.

[XUFan09]

A little under $2 million total salary after the raise this past off-season. A $150,000 bonus if they reach the 2nd round and a $200,000 bonus if they reach the Sweet 16. There are APR and GPA incentives too. So he's in the neighborhood of $2.2 million or $2.3 million, I guess.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/164907176.html

[danaandvictory]

Right, it was a potentially very good program. It wasn't like Arizona where Miller stepped into one of the top coaching jobs in the country. Ohio State was a rebuilding job. Maybe not the toughest rebuilding job ever, but a fixer upper nonetheless.

Actually I would say both were rebuilding jobs. When Sean came in UA was coming off a Sweet 16 year but it was a bit of a fluke as they had barely made the tournament under Pennell. They had effectively had two years of interim coaches (Krusty O'Neill being one of them) and Sean had to act quickly to right the recruiting ship and still went 16-15 his first year before things started rolling.

Thad had a multi-year project on his hands, Sean took over a proud program that had hit a bump in the road. Both did excellent jobs with what they inherited, as you would expect from two of the best coaches in the country.

[Cheesehead]

I think Mack is content money-wise. He has a sweet ass house in Northern Kentucky. He is set for a while money-wise w/ standard of living in Cincinnati. Minnesota is just not that great of a job. As Andy Katz said after Tubby's firing, "Minnesota has to remember who they are. They are not in the top 4-5 of the Big ten and their facilities are terrible."

[casualfan]

I think Mack is content money-wise. He has a sweet ass house in Northern Kentucky. He is set for a while money-wise w/ standard of living in Cincinnati. Minnesota is just not that great of a job. As Andy Katz said after Tubby's firing, "Minnesota has to remember who they are. They are not in the top 4-5 of the Big ten and their facilities are terrible."

Lots of people are content money-wise until someone offers to at least double their income. I do agree that Minnesota is not a good job. Bad facilities and bad weather in a very tough league.

[Xavgrad08]

I think a big deterrent about the Minnesota Job are the facilities and the weather. It's tough to win in the Big10 when your facilities are worse than the teams you are facing. Also, I think there will be some really good jobs that come open in the next couple of years. I do think it is imperative that Mack feels comfortable with the new AD.

[xavierj]

This 1000 times. Until our coach gets paid like a BCS level head guy these rumors will persist.

2012 salaries (From what i could find):

Chris Mack at Xavier: ~ $500k (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/campus-overload/post/sweet-sixteen-coaches-and-march-madness-bonuses/2012/03/21/gIQAOn38VS_blog.html)

Tubby Smith at Minnesota: ~ $2,000,000 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/03/25/tubby-smith-fired-by-minnesota-after-best-season-with-the-team/)

I don't care what is going on at your current job, if you have a chance to quadruple your salary you take a long hard look at it.

I'm not saying he'll leave (we're not even sure he's a candidate at this point), but he'd be a fool not to at least listen.

Having said that with the TV money coming in i think it's only a matter of time before Mack gets bumped into that BCS range. He may even try to use some of this speculation to get a raise a la Smart and Jamie Dixon.


If you think Chris Mack is only making $500,000 per year you just are not paying attention. You don't build $2 Million dollar homes on a $500,000 salary unless you are dumb. He is doing fine and he won't be coaching in Siberia anytime soon. Skip Prosser was making $750,000 years ago. Xavier pays a lot more than $500,000. At a private school like Xavier you will never know what the basketball coach truly makes. They make more in side money and endorsements than actual salary.

[paulxu]

And the royalties just keep rolling in from "Call Me Maybe."

[Xu Red Dogg]

Here is another thing to remember... In this new league of ours, Mack is DEAD LAST in terms of salary. 10 of 10. Dead last.

The "I love Xavier. I'm an alumni." bit only goes so far.

Matta was a Butler alum remember. Babies stay in the womb longer that T-Bone stayed at Butler.

I don't think he goes to Minnesota, but I do think if he is not brought up to fair market value we will not have him much longer.

[BMoreX]

Red dog how much do you think Mack makes?

[Xu Red Dogg]

$800,000 - $875,000.

[PM Thor]

^^^BASE salary, maybe. He's making a lot more than that.

People tend to overlook the "family" aspect here. Mack has family here, he has little ones. He's a west sider originally. He won't uproot his wife, who's from around here, take his girls and then move to Minnesota. He has his destination job, in a town with family, his alma mater, now in the Big East and he makes a killing. Goodness, check off all the boxes, it would be a lateral move AT BEST. There just isn't a compelling argument to even consider Minny.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm inclined to believe he'll stay if Minnesota is all that's being offered, but I also thought Sean would wait one more year and try with Derrick and Jordan to make the Final Four. My point being, I'm not as naive as I once was.

I hope Mack stays, but if he chooses to leave, then so be it. We've been through it before, and we'll likely go through it again. I'm tired of being angry at coaches who leave when they say they want to stay. What else are they going to say when they're hired? Thanks for hiring me. I'll be here for four, maybe five years, until something better with more money comes along?!!?! (If you were offered four times the amount you're making now to do the same job somewhere else, would you pass it up just because you're from Cincinnati? It's not like your only option for return is a wagon train. I mean, we're behind the times, but not that behind.)

The only time I'll believe with my whole heart that Mack wants to retire from Xavier as head basketball coach is when he's an octogenarian 40 years from now and my grandkids and I sit in the brand new arena on campus at his retirement party. Until then, I'll hope that he stays and I'll believe that he might leave, no matter what he might say, until he doesn't.

We've survived losing Gillen, Prosser, Matta and Miller. If Mack chooses to go, we'll survive losing him as well. I like Mack, but I take what he says about staying with a grain of salt. His duty is to his family first, and if he can provide them with a life of financial security and happiness, he'd be silly to say no to a job that would give him that, and that job might just be the one he has now.

[LadyMuskie]

I don't know why it posted twice. Sorry.

[Xu Red Dogg]

I would guess that Mack's BASE is $300,000-$400,000. Schools keep the base low because usually that is all that has to be paid when a coach is fired.

He does not make over $875,000. Ask anyone "in the know" or with remote connections to X's admin.

[Masterofreality]

He does not make over $875,000. Ask anyone "in the know" or with remote connections to X's admin.

Yes he does. Well into 7 figures.

[Xu Red Dogg]

If it makes you sleep better at night to think that, so be it.

Xavier has never paid a coach over $1,000,000. Not Miller. Not Mack.

[XUFan09]

Yes he does. Well into 7 figures.

This is a guy "in the know" and he's saying you're wrong. I've also pretty consistently heard that Mack makes on average over $1 million.

[Xavier]

I would guess that Mack's BASE is $300,000-$400,000. Schools keep the base low because usually that is all that has to be paid when a coach is fired.

He does not make over $875,000. Ask anyone "in the know" or with remote connections to X's admin.

Much higher. Florida Gulf Coasts coach gets 185,000. If I had to guess, I would think Mack's base is 800,000-900,000.

[smileyy]

Here is another thing to remember... In this new league of ours, Mack is DEAD LAST in terms of salary. 10 of 10. Dead last.

That won't last long with the Big East TV deal. You can't really compare the salaries of Butler, Creighton and Xavier to the rest of the teams at this point, because of that.

[Cheesehead]

hmmm.... MOR or a poster w/ less than 100 posts? Let me think.......

[XUFan09]

That won't last long with the Big East TV deal. You can't really compare the salaries of Butler, Creighton and Xavier to the rest of the teams at this point, because of that.

I think Mack, Stevens, and McDermott are all in the same ballpark too, so since their actual incomes are undisclosed, you can't really say who's dead last.

[LA Muskie]

I would guess that Mack's BASE is $300,000-$400,000. Schools keep the base low because usually that is all that has to be paid when a coach is fired.

He does not make over $875,000. Ask anyone "in the know" or with remote connections to X's admin.

You could say that. You could even believe it. But in either event you would be utterly and completely wrong. Wrong.

[wkrq59]

People. We're forgetting one huge thing in this soon to be pissing contest over who makes what. It's really not how much you make but how much you have to spend. I spend a few interesting hours in Wings N' Things ( pronounced Wangs N' Thangs by the staff there) in Tuscaloosa, Alabama talking with one of ear ryant's assistants. I asked him why he chose to stay so long when he had chancs (many) to take over his own college team elsewhere. He was making $102,000 at the time and had a generous expense account, two cars (his and his wife's) new each year from a dealership and he made that comment about spending.. "What do I have to spend. The food here is cheaper than up north. I have a fully stocked freezer that's filled with meats and another that's filled with other frozen foods. If my wife goes to the salon to have her hair done, all she does is tip the operator. She tried to pay and the operator was insulted. My kids go to a private school and their tuition is taken care of. " This was in the mid 80s so take that into consideration.
I know that the Jesuits would rather eat their young than part easily with money. But right now, Chris Mack has it good. Remember, he turned down Tennessee and a couple of other places. There are many ways to earn a considerable amount of money other than base salary. I'm sure that Chris has good financial advisors to keep him in good shape financially. I'm sure that Chris would listen if an opportunity to coach in the SEC or Pac-12 in decent clime opened up but I really think this is Chris' destination job. I think the only way he leaves if if the interior climate changes. As Pete always said, "Times change, people change so I never say never."

[MD Muskie]

I am no longer naive to thinking he won't leave because he is an alum and local, one day a better job may open up. Minnesota is not that job. However with how our last three coaches have found better high profile jobs in the big 6 conferences, i would believe that Mack knows what he is looking for, and again Minnesota is not type of job.

[Masterofreality]

If it makes you sleep better at night to think that, so be it.

Xavier has never paid a coach over $1,000,000. Not Miller. Not Mack.

You.......are........wrong.

[Fireball]

I am no longer naive to thinking he won't leave because he is an alum and local, one day a better job may open up. Minnesota is not that job. However with how our last three coaches have found better high profile jobs in the big 6 conferences, i would believe that Mack knows what he is looking for, and again Minnesota is not type of job.

I agree. I think he absolutely will leave at some point if he continues to be successful. Especially if he is successful in the Big East, one of those destination jobs will come calling, and I'm not naive enough to think that Mack will stay at Xavier if someone like Duke wants him.

[STL_XUfan]

Mack may leave but not to a place that doesn't have a practice facility,and according to some radio personalities, has to schedule practices around the women's team schedule (since both cant practice at the same time). Mack can sit back and wait for a true big time program to come calling, and then weigh his options.

[RoseyMuskie]

I think Mack, Stevens, and McDermott are all in the same ballpark too, so since their actual incomes are undisclosed, you can't really say who's dead last.

Right.

I found this about Stevens, although it is a bit dated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/atlantic10/2013/02/05/brad-stevens-butler-salary-compensation/1893505/

I'd have to imagine Mack is somewhere in that range. I'm under the impression he's somewhere between 1-1.5 mil.

And I don't always buy the "money" argument. Sure, for someone like me (grad of '12), significantly increasing my salary would mean I could pay off a car quicker, look into home ownership sooner, and afford more BASIC amenities. Mack is at the point where increasing his salary would mean he could afford a few more nice vacations, upgrade an already nice car, add a home addition to a mansion, and improve upon his LUXURIES. We always consider it from our perspective. Think from his. There comes a point for Mack where the marginal benefit of more money won't outweigh living in the city he is from and the relationships he and his family has developed.

On the flip side, that doesn't mean I don't think money couldn't do the talking. I'm not that naive. If a school came in and offered him 3X what he is making now, I think he'd seriously listen.

I'm not completely sold that Mack is a lifer. And I completely understand. If a huge brand name school like Kentucky, Florida, IU, Syracuse, Michigan St., Kansas, UNC etc came calling, I'd fully expect him to bolt. I just don't expect him to leave for the likes of Minnesota, a lateral move basketball wise, and potentially a slight step up monetarily. That's where my money argument comes into play. It would have to be an amount that would take him from extremely wealthy to filthy loaded.

[Kahns Krazy]

I will preface what I'm about to say by the fact that I've been fooled before, and I'll be fooled again.

But, I just don't see Coach Mack leaving anytime soon. He is from Cincinnati. He played at Xavier. He's been at Xavier in the MCC, and then to A-10, and now in the Big East. He is a huge part of why all that happened, and I would imagine that he takes a ton of pride in the program and his role in growing it further.

Outside of the Kentucky, Duke, or North Carolina jobs opening up and him being offered the position, I think he's at X to stay. Now that we're in a "major" conference, the main reason to leave just isn't there anymore.

I don't think never is realistic, but I don't see it happening before the first Big East season.

Also, a base salary of $400,000 is not unrealistic, nor is total comp well into the 7 figures. It is not uncommon for base pay to be 1/3rd of a coach's total comp.

[nuts4xu]

I would guess that Mack's BASE is $300,000-$400,000. Schools keep the base low because usually that is all that has to be paid when a coach is fired.

He does not make over $875,000. Ask anyone "in the know" or with remote connections to X's admin.

Miller made about $875k his last year at Xavier, and Mack makes more than that. Mack's base is well above $300-$400,000.

I have connections to X's admin, and am friendly with people "in the know". Your statements are inaccurate and wrong.

[Kahns Krazy]

Right.

And I don't always buy the "money" argument. Sure, for someone like me (grad of '12), significantly increasing my salary would mean I could pay off a car quicker, look into home ownership sooner, and afford more BASIC amenities. Mack is at the point where increasing his salary would mean he could afford a few more nice vacations, upgrade an already nice car, add a home addition to a mansion, and improve upon his LUXURIES. We always consider it from our perspective. Think from his. There comes a point for Mack where the marginal benefit of more money won't outweigh living in the city he is from and the relationships he and his family has developed.

On the flip side, that doesn't mean I don't think money couldn't do the talking. I'm not that naive. If a school came in and offered him 3X what he is making now, I think he'd seriously listen.

I'm not completely sold that Mack is a lifer. And I completely understand. If a huge brand name school like Kentucky, Florida, IU, Syracuse, Michigan St., Kansas, UNC etc came calling, I'd fully expect him to bolt. I just don't expect him to leave for the likes of Minnesota, a lateral move basketball wise, and potentially a slight step up monetarily. That's where my money argument comes into play. It would have to be an amount that would take him from extremely wealthy to filthy loaded.

Money is weird. I have not met many people for whom the lure of incremental money fades after needs are met. There is always a nicer car, a nicer house, more savings, better schools for the kids, nicer vacations, a pricier watch, first class flights, vacation homes, art, etc. etc. etc. I think a 50% raise has the same compelling argument going from $30k to $45k as it does going from $1.2 million to $1.8 million.

[paulxu]

Also, a base salary of $400,000 is not unrealistic, nor is total comp well into the 7 figures. It is not uncommon for base pay to be 1/3rd of a coach's total comp.

I linked in an earlier post to the research USA did on coaches salaries that were in last year's NCAA.
Where possible they documented a number. Where not available, they noted so.
For Mack, last year (which may have gone up after the tournament) his base was noted as $484,399.
Assumedly they had access to some documents to support that. As to his outside revenue...those were unavailable.
I think Kahn's is on the mark.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1

[RoseyMuskie]

Money is weird. I have not met many people for whom the lure of incremental money fades after needs are met. There is always a nicer car, a nicer house, more savings, better schools for the kids, nicer vacations, a pricier watch, first class flights, vacation homes, art, etc. etc. etc. I think a 50% raise has the same compelling argument going from $30k to $45k as it does going from $1.2 million to $1.8 million.

True. Hopefully I know that at somepoint!

My point all along though was that when you are factoring in improving luxuries rather than necessities, your living situation, friends, family, etc. may turn out to be a more important factor rather than when you have to make a decision purely to survive financially and improve your basic amenities.

[Cheesehead]

So, I will just say what everyone is thinking.... Pat Kelsey? :lmao:

[GoMuskies]

So, I will just say what everyone is thinking.... Pat Kelsey? :lmao:

He'll have to have a winning record at Winthrop first.

[LA Muskie]

Someone else hit it on the head earlier. It's not the gross number. It's what that will get you. I'd rather have $1.5mm in Cincy than $2.5mm in LA. Between taxes, cost of living, traffic and overall lifestyle I think most would be better off in Cincy. It would become a tougher call at $3mm and very tough to turn down (for most people) at $3.5mm and above.

[LA Muskie]

He'll have to have a winning record at Winthrop first.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

[GoMuskies]

He's not getting the Xavier job without being successful at Winthrop (or somewhere else) first. Not gonna happen.

[STL_XUfan]

Right.

I found this about Stevens, although it is a bit dated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/atlantic10/2013/02/05/brad-stevens-butler-salary-compensation/1893505/

I'd have to imagine Mack is somewhere in that range. I'm under the impression he's somewhere between 1-1.5 mil.

And I don't always buy the "money" argument. Sure, for someone like me (grad of '12), significantly increasing my salary would mean I could pay off a car quicker, look into home ownership sooner, and afford more BASIC amenities. Mack is at the point where increasing his salary would mean he could afford a few more nice vacations, upgrade an already nice car, add a home addition to a mansion, and improve upon his LUXURIES. We always consider it from our perspective. Think from his. There comes a point for Mack where the marginal benefit of more money won't outweigh living in the city he is from and the relationships he and his family has developed.

On the flip side, that doesn't mean I don't think money couldn't do the talking. I'm not that naive. If a school came in and offered him 3X what he is making now, I think he'd seriously listen.

I'm not completely sold that Mack is a lifer. And I completely understand. If a huge brand name school like Kentucky, Florida, IU, Syracuse, Michigan St., Kansas, UNC etc came calling, I'd fully expect him to bolt. I just don't expect him to leave for the likes of Minnesota, a lateral move basketball wise, and potentially a slight step up monetarily. That's where my money argument comes into play. It would have to be an amount that would take him from extremely wealthy to filthy loaded.


Dont forget, while big money can come rapidly in his profession, so can unemployment. He puts together 3 straight losing seasons at Xavier and he may find himself out of the job. Coaches need to get money while they can cause retirement may come calling for them a lot sooner than expected. (See Archie Miller in 2 years).

[nuts4xu]

He's not getting the Xavier job without being successful at Winthrop (or somewhere else) first. Not gonna happen.

Agreed.

[XUFan09]

Money is weird. I have not met many people for whom the lure of incremental money fades after needs are met. There is always a nicer car, a nicer house, more savings, better schools for the kids, nicer vacations, a pricier watch, first class flights, vacation homes, art, etc. etc. etc. I think a 50% raise has the same compelling argument going from $30k to $45k as it does going from $1.2 million to $1.8 million.

I don't think the bolded part is correct (and I'm focusing on "same"). It's basic economic theory that for every dollar you make, the next dollar has less value to you. If I was making $30,000 a year and someone offered me a job in an entirely different field for $45,000, there's a pretty good chance I'd take it (assuming I didn't absolutely hate that new field). Going from $100,000 to $150,000, though, I'd need some more convincing. Not saying I wouldn't consider it then, but it wouldn't be quite as simple.

A 50% raise means less the more money you make. Now what I disagree with is the people on the other side who dismiss that kind of raise once you're talking seven-figure salaries. $1.2 million to $1.8 million is a big difference, and we shouldn't act like that doesn't matter.

[GoMuskies]

A 50% raise means less the more money you make.

I heartily disagree. There may be some point where that is true, but you probably have to be high in the 8 figures (maybe into 9 figures) before that's true.

[smileyy]

Over about 12 years, my annual income has roughly quintupled. Sure, some of that is inflation/economic growth, but there's real income growth in there too. And no matter what, I find something to do with all the money, and I still don't save enough of it as I should.

[SM#24]

$200,000,000 to $300,000,000 would be awful enticing

[XUFan09]

I heartily disagree. There may be some point where that is true, but you probably have to be high in the 8 figures (maybe into 9 figures) before that's true.

I'm not saying it's a big difference. It's an incremental difference that adds up over large amounts.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Off Topic:

I usually don't listen to the "CBS Sports Minute" fillers they run on The Score up here.

But yesterday John Feinstein lit after Wake Forest for firing Dino Guadio and replacing him with Their Own Guy -- whose record is nearly as bad 30-60 or something as Dino's was good 60-30 or something.

Not everyday you hear "Dino Guadio" ands "Skip Proesser" tumbling from the AM dial.

On topic:

Chris is hear for the foreseeable future. And God Bless Us Everyone!

Happy Easter, all.

Off to NYC to see my Fordham Ram of a Son. Yeesh.

[XUFan09]

$200,000,000 to $300,000,000 would be awful enticing

It definitely would be. I'd be hesitant to take it if it meant leaving my support group for a possibly worse job. But, if I could at least bring my family with me and it was a lateral move or better...Now that job offer just became a lot more interesting.

[coasterville95]

YOu guarantee me $200,000,000 to $300,000,000 iron-clad - and I'LL coach whatever team you want me to coach for a season. Yes, I know ZERO about basketball play making, and have ZERO coaching experience - but I can get a nice tour visitng some 15 college basketball arenas, pocket some cash. Maybe even schedule a lot of road buy games, so I can up my travel and see other arenas on their dime count. I've learned how to deflect blame from myself by listening to Cronin post game shows.

Yeah, we go 0-30 (okay maybe 1-29 every squirrel gets lucky once a season, right?) - yes, I'd leave the program in an utter shambles, but as soon as I have that $200,000,000 in the bank, I'll really be crying as I move back to Cincinnati.

[xavierj]

If anyone really wants to know what Chris Mack makes go to guidestar.org and foot the $125 to get the info. He is the highest paid employee at Xavier which is not a surprise.

[XUFan09]

YOu guarantee me $200,000,000 to $300,000,000 iron-clad - and I'LL coach whatever team you want me to coach for a season. Yes, I know ZERO about basketball play making, and have ZERO coaching experience - but I can get a nice tour visitng some 15 college basketball arenas, pocket some cash. Maybe even schedule a lot of road buy games, so I can up my travel and see other arenas on their dime count. I've learned how to deflect blame from myself by listening to Cronin post game shows.

Yeah, we go 0-30 (okay maybe 1-29 every squirrel gets lucky once a season, right?) - yes, I'd leave the program in an utter shambles, but as soon as I have that $200,000,000 in the bank, I'll really be crying as I move back to Cincinnati.

$200,000? You wouldn't have to pay me $50,000

[Masterofreality]

All I know is that Chris Mack is busting his chops for the money.

“@CoachChrisMack: Worked a 9-5pm today in NYC. Now back to the ranch. After not seeing family for 5 days, Daddy's missing the Macks.....”

[xudash]

All I know is that Chris Mack is busting his chops for the money.

“@CoachChrisMack: Worked a 9-5pm today in NYC. Now back to the ranch. After not seeing family for 5 days, Daddy's missing the Macks.....”

Big East meetings or recruiting? I'm guessing recruiting.

[Masterofreality]

Big East meetings or recruiting? I'm guessing recruiting.

I'm thinking you're guessing right.

[MarvAlbert]

People on twitter were saying he was down in Georgia and Florida looking at recruits. I also saw that a Stephane Manga, a juco from Monroe College in the Bronx, may be visiting Xavier in April. Perhaps Mack was paying a visit first.

[Masterofreality]

A
People on twitter were saying he was down in Georgia and Florida looking at recruits. I also saw that a Stephane Manga, a juco from Monroe College in the Bronx, may be visiting Xavier in April. Perhaps Mack was paying a visit first.

"Stephane Manga (6-6/SF/2013) of Monroe College (NY) will visit Seton Hall on April 1st and possibly visit Xavier after his Seton Hall visit. *Manga, a native of Paris, France, averaged 15.2 points, 5.7 rebounds and 2.7 assists per game this season while shooting 48% from the field.

Manga has a great frame and likes to be physical. He handles the ball well and is very athletic. He can guard multiple positions and play the 3 or 4 spot on the offensive end. Manga played in the All-American JUCO Showcase Elite 80 last July and made the Top 20 All Star Game. He should have a smooth transition to the next level because of his combination of size, strength and skill."

We could use a 3.

[gladdenguy]

I would like to take the chance on Manga.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Rw3imkuuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBx-S044F_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9oVQIpEd-8

[Masterofreality]

CMack was in Florida recruiting this week.

Gotta believe that he's going after at least 2 JUCO's. Manga and someone else from the Sunshine State. We need some immediate help...ala Anthony Myles.

[Masterofreality]

$800,000 - $875,000.

Boys and girls. I've just been provided some new info from a source outside of Xavier, but is 100% credible. It conflicts what I had been previously been told by a source at XU, but I am 100% sure that it is accurate.

I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong and what Red Dogg says above is correct. This being the case, I now say that Chris Mack is woefully underpaid. The school needs to step up and pay this guy more...especially with this move to the Big East. His assistants ought to get more too. Guess I need to bump up my AFO contribution.

Red Dogg, my apologies. My bad. I.....was......wrong.

[LA Muskie]

Boys and girls. I've just been provided some new info from a source outside of Xavier, but is 100% credible. It conflicts what I had been previously been told by a source at XU, but I am 100% sure that it is accurate.

I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong and what Red Dogg says above is correct. This being the case, I now say that Chris Mack is woefully underpaid. The school needs to step up and pay this guy more...especially with this move to the Big East. His assistants ought to get more too. Guess I need to bump up my AFO contribution.

Red Dogg, my apologies. My bad. I.....was......wrong.

Unless my sources are wrong, Chris has several sources of income of which only one is salary from XU. My understanding of his deal, which is orchestrated by the university and includes separate media, marketing, appearance and camp income, is that it exceeds $1mm in most years. Having not made the tourney, that *might* not have been the case this year.

I'm not sure if he is underpaid or not. He hasn't yet done what Stevens or Smart have been able to accomplish. That said, he is in the salary range where we are vulnerable.

[Masterofreality]

Unless my sources are wrong, Chris has several sources of income of which only one is salary from XU. My understanding of his deal, which is orchestrated by the university and includes separate media, marketing, appearance and camp income, is that it exceeds $1mm in most years. Having not made the tourney, that *might* not have been the case this year.

I'm not sure if he is underpaid or not. He hasn't yet done what Stevens or Smart have been able to accomplish. That said, he is in the salary range where we are vulnerable.

Well, yeah. We all know that "bonuses" can change the picture, and there are all kinds of "other compensation" items that come into play, but they come and go...like my bonus went nowhere this year. That being said, making 2 Sweet 16's and three NCAA's in 4 years should earn more base than what he gets.

I love Xavier, but c'mon. They gotta step it up a notch for all their guys. This staff is exceptional and I want all of them around for a very long time.

[paulxu]

For the third time (absent evidence to the contrary) USA published a base salary for Mack of $484,399.

From their article, that is a documented number for 2012. They did not have information (as they did for other coaches) about outside revenue sources, and noted that also.

[UCGRAD4X]

Not sure when his contract is up (or if it matters) but I would expect there is a bump coming his way with the move this year. He deserves some credit for the invitation and I think the admin recognizes that. He may also get some blame for the downturn this year. But, on balance, the positives far outweigh the negative. SHOW MACK THE MONEY!

[XU-PA]

with all the "Cinderella" story lines in the tourney this year, certainly focus will be turned away from the traditional, Chris Mack, Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, and now colleges looking to make a quick splash with a high profile hire must be looking at the guys from Wichita State, FGCU, perhaps even Creighton, LaSalle and St Louis.

Is hiring the media darling the right thing to do?

The one thing so smart about all the hires that Xavier has made over the decades is that they have never just hired the coach of the day,,, the popular guy who had a flash of success, one that always turns out to be much more expensive and not necessarily the best for the job. We have become the cradle of coaches because our administration has put in the work and in every case since I've been following, they have found the right coach for the job.

[Thor in 204]

If Butler can come up with what they pay Brad Stevens, X should be able to do the same or better for Chris Mack, especially with new revenue sources coming in. I think it's very important for the program that X steps up for Mack and his assistants. New league, new level of investment, new reward possibilities. We've been fortunate to not have been hit harder by the coaching changes we have experienced in last 10 years; we did get a taste of it this past season.

[kmcrawfo]

If Butler can come up with what they pay Brad Stevens, X should be able to do the same or better for Chris Mack, especially with new revenue sources coming in. I think it's very important for the program that X steps up for Mack and his assistants. New league, new level of investment, new reward possibilities. We've been fortunate to not have been hit harder by the coaching changes we have experienced in last 10 years; we did get a taste of it this past season.

I like Mack, but he does not yet deserve the pay that Brad Stevens receives from Butler.

The career accomplishments of Mack vs. Stevens do not compare. Stevens clearly has superior resume and could have virtually any job vacancy in the country. Mack is currently fortunate to have job stability and not be on the hot seat after what has occurred the past 2 seasons. Regardless of the sweet 16 appearance at the end of last year, there was much turbulence in the program over the course of that season. He has lost assistants, players, and recruits at a higher pace than any coach in recent Xavier history. Some may blame the administration and this may at least be partially true. However, Mack is the face of Xavier basketball and he gets the overall glory/blame as the program moves in either direction.

Overall, the past 2 years have been tough on Xavier Basketball from a recruiting, national image, and performance perspective. In-house Attendance (not paid) plummeted this year and many season ticket holders and donors are not happy. My season ticket package actually went down in cost when I renewed it recently which, in general, is not a good sign as to the state of the program. Until this season, I never had the AD personally call me to inquire if I was going to continue my annual donations and season ticket package either. Look, I appreciate the phone call and reduced ticket prices. I don't know what amounts X considers high, but I would guess I am a mid-level donor, at best. So, if I was called I am certain many others were as well. However, in general if they are putting this much effort to reach out to donors and ticket holders than I would guess all is not rosy and peachy in the land of Xavier Basketball. I will continue to always support the program, but I must say I have my concerns.

The Big East move may be the saving grace for this program, but we are certainly not in clear waters yet. Mack must perform up to expectations next year. This means having some quality recruits show promise on the court, no off-court drama/exodus of current players, and a NCAA tournament bid. Less than this and his seat will rightfully start to get a bit warmer.

The next 2 seasons are probably a make-or-break transition for Xavier Basketball going forward.

[wkrq59]

First, we are making way too much of what was an off season for Xavier basketball. Right now I see a coach and a team in the valley of the future with opposing forces on either ridge to the north and south. The only way out is to the east where Chris and the new AD and Fr. Graham have the team on course to march.
To the south we have the nay sayers and the on the North ridge are the Musketeer faithful, throwing out the lasers of praise and good wishes to blunt the arrows and boulders and hot tar heaped down on the Muskies few but determined. Eventually, the excrement will slide through, however.
Let's face the facts. Chris Mack loves Xavier, but there is only so much a guy can take. He knew when he signed up what the terms would be. You'll never get rich in the Musketeers Army. But you and your kids won't be eligible for food stamps, either. Xavier is and always will be Xavier. Even Dana Altman heard and answered the Nike green siren of Oregon and did damned well with the Ducks this year. I hope Chris turns into Mark Few and can bring the Muskies to even greater glory. He certainly is capable dispite his critics negative opinions. I've been around and close to the game for more than 50 years and am confidently certain of that.
I suppose it is natural to worry in the offseason and history, especially recent history has shown that to be justified. But for once can we not battle back and forth, rather let's clear that path east for our team and get back to despising YTG and remember 77-66, 76-53. Go Muskies.

[X Factor]

[QUOTE=kmcrawfo;390160 Mack is currently fortunate to have job stability and not be on the hot seat after what has occurred the past 2 seasons. Regardless of the sweet 16 appearance at the end of last year, there was much turbulence in the program over the course of that season. He has lost assistants, players, and recruits at a higher pace than any coach in recent Xavier history.[/QUOTE]

This is just ridiculous talk.

[Masterofreality]

So, attendance "plummeted" by 400 per game....about 4%. That's some "plummet".

Let me tell you what a precipitous plummet is......SucKS. Putting 4,500 in a 13,000 seat building is a plummet.

And reaching out to the donor base is actually a good thing. Most people get pissed when they think they are being ignored or when they think those that take their money are too arrogant to care.

By the way, Cintas is basically paid off now, so the gesture of the prices is actually another positive.

Sometimes even the half full glass is seen to be half empty.

[X Factor]

Mack is currently fortunate to have job stability and not be on the hot seat after what has occurred the past 2 seasons. Regardless of the sweet 16 appearance at the end of last year, there was much turbulence in the program over the course of that season. He has lost assistants, players, and recruits at a higher pace than any coach in recent Xavier history.

This is just ridiculous talk.

[jhelmes37]

What, exactly, was Mack's fault? The fact that Lyons, a MILLER recruit, was a dick? I'd bet the powers that be were HAPPY he kicked him off the team.

Was it Mack's fault Dez didn't wear a rubber? Was he supposed to be Trojan man and roll in on a horse and give Dez a jimmy?

Recruiting has taken a hit? Really? Dez was top 40, Semaj has NBA written ALL over him, and his classes consist of pretty much all 3 and 4 star players. Sure, a few didn't pan out. But even the "bad" ones had scholly offers from Big 6 programs. Mack is arguably recruiting at the highest level we have ever seen.

Our two best players, who each averaged 15 plus per game this year, were kicked off the team. The guy is nowhere near the hotseat.

[bjf123]

I'm very much a glass is half empty kind of guy. A personality test I took at work says one of my ways of looking at things is "every silver lining has a cloud." Even I don't see Mack being on the hot seat. Based on the hand he was dealt this year, I think he did a heck of a job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UCGRAD4X]

I do agree that the next year or two will say a lot about the direction this move will take the program and Mack's place in it.

I also agree that he did a pretty good job with the crappy hand he was dealt this year - for whatever reason.

Next year he will have the talent - but not the experience. By 2015 - no more excuses. Shit or get off the pot!

[deepX]

So, attendance "plummeted" by 400 per game....about 4%. That's some "plummet".

Let me tell you what a precipitous plummet is......SucKS. Putting 4,500 in a 13,000 seat building is a plummet.

And reaching out to the donor base is actually a good thing. Most people get pissed when they think they are being ignored or when they think those that take their money are too arrogant to care.

By the way, Cintas is basically paid off now, so the gesture of the prices is actually another positive.

Sometimes even the half full glass is seen to be half empty.

MRO,
Just wanted to point out that Cintas Center is nowhere near paid off!
The original 1997 bonds were refinanced in 2006 and the 2006 bonds were refinanced in 2008. The 2008 bonds have a final maturity in 2042! Though you might like to know as you seem to like to state things as facts in your postings.

-deepX

[kmcrawfo]

So, attendance "plummeted" by 400 per game....about 4%. That's some "plummet".

Let me tell you what a precipitous plummet is......SucKS. Putting 4,500 in a 13,000 seat building is a plummet.

And reaching out to the donor base is actually a good thing. Most people get pissed when they think they are being ignored or when they think those that take their money are too arrogant to care.

By the way, Cintas is basically paid off now, so the gesture of the prices is actually another positive.

Sometimes even the half full glass is seen to be half empty.

If you were at the games, there were a lot more than 400 empty seats. As I stated, I am not referring to paid attendance. I referring to how many butts were actually in the seats. I have never seen such empty X arenas as this year.

[kmcrawfo]

So, attendance "plummeted" by 400 per game....about 4%. That's some "plummet".

Let me tell you what a precipitous plummet is......SucKS. Putting 4,500 in a 13,000 seat building is a plummet.

And reaching out to the donor base is actually a good thing. Most people get pissed when they think they are being ignored or when they think those that take their money are too arrogant to care.

By the way, Cintas is basically paid off now, so the gesture of the prices is actually another positive.

Sometimes even the half full glass is seen to be half empty.

The lowering of prices in conjunction with entering the Big East is not a good thing when evaluating the health of the program in the administration's eyes. Do you think they lowered the prices because demand is going up, or down? Do think they are just trying to be nice? XU Hoops is a business. There are signs of problems. These can certainly be rectified, but as I said the next 2 years will be very telling.

[xudash]

MRO,
Just wanted to point out that Cintas Center is nowhere near paid off!
The original 1997 bonds were refinanced in 2006 and the 2006 bonds were refinanced in 2008. The 2008 bonds have a final maturity in 2042! Though you might like to know as you seem to like to state things as facts in your postings.

-deepX

We're 100% of the original bonds refinanced? I recall a 10 year maturity. I also recall amortization being structured into the original deal.

The refi package was an excellent move on the part of the school, as it consolidated existing, remaining and new financing for the CLT/WCB, as I recall. So, probably about $26mm in Cintas financing less actual amortization of it was included in that new package.

Finally, we're bonds issued in 1997, or was permanent financing - the bond issue - put in place upon completion and sign-off on the facility?

[paulxu]

You know what would piss me off?
If I learned that Mack was actually on a hot seat for any of the stuff noted here.

By most coaching measurements he's done a great job. There are a lot of schools who would like our record under Mack.

His name is being mentioned for coaching opportunities at larger schools that pay a lot more...and he's on the hot seat?

Where do I sign up?

[kmcrawfo]

You know what would piss me off?
If I learned that Mack was actually on a hot seat for any of the stuff noted here.

By most coaching measurements he's done a great job. There are a lot of schools who would like our record under Mack.

His name is being mentioned for coaching opportunities at larger schools that pay a lot more...and he's on the hot seat?

Where do I sign up?

I did not say Mack is on the hot seat. I said he could be on the hot seat if things do not improve. I said if he does not give a season without drama/defections and return to the NCAA tournament within the next 1-2 years he may be on the hot seat. I also said while the administration may be also to blame, like it or not, Mack is the face of the program. Successes or failures will always be laid at his feet.

Next year will be telling as to what direction this program is going.

[kmcrawfo]

What, exactly, was Mack's fault? The fact that Lyons, a MILLER recruit, was a dick? I'd bet the powers that be were HAPPY he kicked him off the team.

Was it Mack's fault Dez didn't wear a rubber? Was he supposed to be Trojan man and roll in on a horse and give Dez a jimmy?

Recruiting has taken a hit? Really? Dez was top 40, Semaj has NBA written ALL over him, and his classes consist of pretty much all 3 and 4 star players. Sure, a few didn't pan out. But even the "bad" ones had scholly offers from Big 6 programs. Mack is arguably recruiting at the highest level we have ever seen.

Our two best players, who each averaged 15 plus per game this year, were kicked off the team. The guy is nowhere near the hotseat.

A few didn't pan out? He has 1 true starting caliber player on the entire team that he actually recruited. That would be Semaj.

I still believe in Martin, but obviously the jury is still out.

Teams cannot survive with above average 2-year eligible transfers that sit out a year when there is no real recruiting base.

As I have said, maybe next year all the recruits that had to sit out and the new freshman will be studs and turn things around.

Next year will be a telling year.

[deepX]

We're 100% of the original bonds refinanced? I recall a 10 year maturity. I also recall amortization being structured into the original deal.

The refi package was an excellent move on the part of the school, as it consolidated existing, remaining and new financing for the CLT/WCB, as I recall. So, probably about $26mm in Cintas financing less actual amortization of it was included in that new package.

Finally, we're bonds issued in 1997, or was permanent financing - the bond issue - put in place upon completion and sign-off on the facility?

The original 1997 bonds were "permanent financing" and had various maturities over the original 25 year term. Approx $40 million was refinanced in 2006 and the vast majority of that is still outstanding. Xavier pushed principal payments out as far as possible in 2008 in order to increase annual debt service capacity so that they could leverage the university even more so they could go deeper in debt for the CTL & WCB and then the new dorm. Xavier is now a highly leveraged organization with minimal additional borrowing ability.

[xudash]

The original 1997 bonds were "permanent financing" and had various maturities over the original 25 year term. Approx $40 million was refinanced in 2006 and the vast majority of that is still outstanding. Xavier pushed principal payments out as far as possible in 2008 in order to increase annual debt service capacity so that they could leverage the university even more so they could go deeper in debt for the CTL & WCB and then the new dorm. Xavier is now a highly leveraged organization with minimal additional borrowing ability.

Assuming $20mm of gift financing for a $46mm building, what did the other $14mm finance?

I agree about borrowing capacity, but wasn't the last issue underwritten with a strong credit rating?

[kmcrawfo]

The original 1997 bonds were "permanent financing" and had various maturities over the original 25 year term. Approx $40 million was refinanced in 2006 and the vast majority of that is still outstanding. Xavier pushed principal payments out as far as possible in 2008 in order to increase annual debt service capacity so that they could leverage the university even more so they could go deeper in debt for the CTL & WCB and then the new dorm. Xavier is now a highly leveraged organization with minimal additional borrowing ability.

You seem to have factual insight into Xavier's true financial health as a whole and in relation to the basketball program. Just curious, why do you think they lowered prices on premium seat contracts? Also, why the changes this year for relatively high level administrators to call donors this has not been done in the past?

As stated, I am grateful for the calls and lowers prices. I actually asked the above question myself during the phone call. I was told it was a gesture of appreciation. Otherwise, I said I would continue my commitment and thanks for the call.

I am sure the answer is partially true... But is there more to it?

[GetUp5]

KMCRAWFO, you suck.

GTFOH. Mack is nowhere near the hot seat and for good reason. End of story.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

If you were at the games, there were a lot more than 400 empty seats. As I stated, I am not referring to paid attendance. I referring to how many butts were actually in the seats. I have never seen such empty X arenas as this year.

This may be a dictum but whose butt are you talking about? And are we talking about big butts or small butts? I dont like huge butts, but rather nice formed, round butts so if those are the kind of butts we are missing, lets get Mack fire pronto. After all, there were 400+ reasons for calling our arena The Cint-Ass Center.

[GuyFawkes38]

I bet it would take 4-6 seasons in a row of not making the tourney for Chris Mack to be on the hot seat (which I don't expect to happen).

I'm a little frusterated by the recruiting. But Mack has done a hell of a job coaching. He got the absolute most out of the team last year.

[DC Muskie]

Does anyone here seriously think Xavier will ever fire a coach who wins and graduates players?

Things don't improve? We had our worst season since 2005. Are we not allowed to have one crappy season where we still finish above .500 in both overall and conference play? Only Xavier fans would flip out going 17-12 and 9-7 in conference. A conference that sent five teams to the dance.

Yet if things don't "improve" next year Chris could be on the hot seat?

What am I missing here?

[Masterofreality]

MRO,
Just wanted to point out that Cintas Center is nowhere near paid off!
The original 1997 bonds were refinanced in 2006 and the 2006 bonds were refinanced in 2008. The 2008 bonds have a final maturity in 2042! Though you might like to know as you seem to like to state things as facts in your postings.

-deepX


We're 100% of the original bonds refinanced? I recall a 10 year maturity. I also recall amortization being structured into the original deal.

The refi package was an excellent move on the part of the school, as it consolidated existing, remaining and new financing for the CLT/WCB, as I recall. So, probably about $26mm in Cintas financing less actual amortization of it was included in that new package.

Finally, we're bonds issued in 1997, or was permanent financing - the bond issue - put in place upon completion and sign-off on the facility?

What Dash says. The Cintas Center, plus other development bonds that were put together at the time in 1997 have been refinanaced into a broader package for the other projects at lower costs that was available because of the recession. There were other projects that were part of that 1997 placing such as the Gallagher Student Center and the Commons Apartments.

Using the term, "paid off" as to Cintas probably wasn't the best choice, but the original bonds have been refi'ed. Whetever is left on the Cintas debt, is minuscule when taken as a part of the total of everything in the new 2008 deal that gave XU more $$ for Fenwick, Conaton Learning Center, Business College, the Ledgewood reconstruction knocking down the Zumbiel plant, and, and, and...Maybe there is some sharp CPA out there who can seperate out all the components, but.....

Remember that XU also raised $200 million in their capital campaign between 1997 and 2008. However they want to classify where the money is is OK with me.

As far as I'm concerned, though, the amount remaining of Cintas debt is only a small part of the refi with the 2042 expiration. The building is more than self-sustaining and turns a profit. Like I said, XU can classify it however they want.

That doesn't mean, however, that XU doesn't need more money. Of course they do.

[GoMuskies]

Does anyone here seriously think Xavier will ever fire a coach who wins and graduates players?


Yes, I could definitely see Xavier firing a coach who wins (but not enough to get to the NCAA Tournament regularly) and graduates players. I don't think Chris Mack is anywhere close to fitting that characterization at this point, but I certainly DO think there's a point where X would can a "winner".

I also think it's ludicrous to believe that it would take 4-6 seasons in a row of missing the Tournament for a coach at X to feel the heat.

[GuyFawkes38]

I also think it's ludicrous to believe that it would take 4-6 seasons in a row of missing the Tournament for a coach at X to feel the heat.

So do you think that Mack will be on the "hot seat" if we don't make the tourney next year? Fans will complain here. But IMHO, Mack will not be on the hot seat.

[GoMuskies]

Depending on how badly we miss the Tournament, the seat could certainly be heating up. The next two years? Absolutely.

[nuts4xu]

Unless he is sitting on his heated leather seats in his luxury automobile, Chris Mack's seat won't get luke warm any time soon. I say this not because Xavier is hesitant to can a coach. I say this because we will NOT continue to have seasons like this one.

This year was abomination, anomaly, and a fluke. We will make the tourney next year, and stake our claim as the new flagship of the new Big East.

[GoMuskies]

I say this because we will NOT continue to have seasons like this one.


Totally agree. I expect us to be very good again next year. Not great, but very good.

[DC Muskie]

Yes, I could definitely see Xavier firing a coach who wins (but not enough to get to the NCAA Tournament regularly) and graduates players. I don't think Chris Mack is anywhere close to fitting that characterization at this point, but I certainly DO think there's a point where X would can a "winner".

What evidence are you basing this thought process on?

[GoMuskies]

What evidence are you basing this thought process on?

Thankfully, there is no evidence from Xavier to support either my position or yours, since Xavier hasn't had a coach that didn't win enough for over 30 years.

But there's no way in hell Xavier is going to let one of its most prized possessions languish in mediocrity without taking action. And if we had 4 or 5 seasons in a row like this one, that would be a serious problem for the university. First world problem, for sure, but a problem nonetheless.

[paulxu]

I should run a poll to see how schizophrenic this board actually is.

Right now it's a toss up between those who think Mack is headed for trouble if we don't do great in the new league, vs. those who think he is woefully underpaid for the great job he is doing and the school needs to pay him more before we lose him.

Sheesh.

[GoMuskies]

I should run a poll to see how schizophrenic this board actually is.

Right now it's a toss up between those who think Mack is headed for trouble if we don't do great in the new league, vs. those who think he is woefully underpaid for the great job he is doing and the school needs to pay him more before we lose him.

Sheesh.

I must be totally schizo, then, because I think it's both. And that's just the way the profession works. He's done a good job so far, and we need to pay him in a way that keeps him here and happy. But if the program falters, yes, he's got to go. I just don't expect that to happen.

[DC Muskie]

Thankfully, there is no evidence from Xavier to support either my position or yours, since Xavier hasn't had a coach that didn't win enough for over 30 years.

I have plenty of support for my position...we have never done it since the beginning of the Staak area.

We never fired Skip for NIT appearances and first round exits. I don't see Xavier ever firing a coach, paying him not to coach and hiring another one.

[GoMuskies]

We've never done it since the Staak era because we never had a coach not win enough. That's not particularly persuasive evidence that the trigger would never get pulled.

Prosser certainly skirted the edges at times, but he won just enough. He never went more than two years between NCAA Tournament appearances. And the bar was set a bit lower at that point as well.

[UCGRAD4X]

We've never done it since the Staak era because we never had a coach not win enough. That's not particularly persuasive evidence that the trigger would never get pulled.

Prosser certainly skirted the edges at times, but he won just enough. He never went more than two years between NCAA Tournament appearances. And the bar was set a bit lower at that point as well.

Prosser was such an educator, I think the administration (and, more importantly, Sr. Rose) appreciated that and might have been more tolerant of the recored in lieu of doing it the XAVIER WAY.

[nuts4xu]

I don't see Xavier ever firing a coach, paying him not to coach and hiring another one.

Things are different now than when Skip was coach. Expectations are higher, and the fanbase/administration is very used to winning.

That said, it would take a great deal of losing, off court issues, bad recruiting, or some extremely negative event like Mack getting arrested for picking up a hooker, stealing vitamins, or pissing on Fr Graham's leg to see Xavier pays a coach to go away. I suspect it would be a string of issues that we haven't had to deal with in the history of our program that forces Xavier to fire a coach in the middle of his contract.

A track record of making the NCAA tournament 75% of the time, will keep him at Xavier a long time.

[danaandvictory]

Prosser certainly skirted the edges at times, but he won just enough. He never went more than two years between NCAA Tournament appearances. And the bar was set a bit lower at that point as well.

I don't think Prosser's job was ever in any kind of jeopardy. Matta and Miller raised the bar so dramatically that it's a completely different context now than 15 years ago.

If the trajectory of the program was to be interrupted for 3-4 years I could see a change made. Especially with the Big East money available. But I don't think Mack is on any kind of a hot seat or anything else at this stage. Miss the entire postseason next year and maybe that changes, but as of now he's absolutely fine.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think Prosser's job was ever in any kind of jeopardy.

Of course not. He won enough, and there were no real problems in the program.

That doesn't, of course, mean everyone was thrilled with him. But there's obviously a difference between people being a lilttle disappointed with your performance (even happy to see you leave voluntarily perhaps) and having your job be in danger.

[Muskie]

Of course not. He won enough, and there were no real problems in the program.

That doesn't, of course, mean everyone was thrilled with him. But there's obviously a difference between people being a lilttle disappointed with your performance (even happy to see you leave voluntarily perhaps) and having your job be in danger.

Towards the end of Prosser's reign, there was definitely discontent among the fanbase and student body.

[danaandvictory]

Towards the end of Prosser's reign, there was definitely discontent among the fanbase and student body.

There was a lot of vitriol toward Skip on Musketeer Madness and it contributed to Skip's decision to leave. Which always amazed me because there were so few regular posters on MM, but I guess when it's your only real Internet outpost it speaks louder.

Can't comment on the feeling on campus as I was elsewhere but I know I thought those XU teams horribly underachieved.

[GoMuskies]

it contributed to Skip's decision to leave.

Really? Huh, that's interesting. I certainly cannot remember what I wrote on messageboards that long ago (and I don't think it was MM; it was Gary's old Voy board after Snipe shut down the Roundtable because the Jedi was not being properly respected), but I know I was thrilled when Prosser took that Wake job. It had to be one of the more amicable breakups ever. All parties won. Even Butler, eventually.

[DC Muskie]

There was a lot of vitriol toward Skip on Musketeer Madness and it contributed to Skip's decision to leave. Which always amazed me because there were so few regular posters on MM, but I guess when it's your only real Internet outpost it speaks louder.

That's sad and hilarious at the same time.

Count me among the group of people who were thrilled when Skip took the Wake job.

[Masterofreality]

Really? Huh, that's interesting. I certainly cannot remember what I wrote on messageboards that long ago (and I don't think it was MM; it was Gary's old Voy board after Snipe shut down the Roundtable because the Jedi was not being properly respected), but I know I was thrilled when Prosser took that Wake job. It had to be one of the more amicable breakups ever. All parties won. Even Butler, eventually.

A veritable history of the Internet. Can't remember if Al Gore started the Roundtable or not.

[Masterofreality]

That's sad and hilarious at the same time.

Count me among the group of people who were thrilled when Skip took the Wake job.

By the way...me too.

udump fans probably felt that way when the Original Midget went to Ga. Tech.

[paulxu]

I must be totally schizo, then, because I think it's both.

Well, that settles it then.

[smileyy]

Right now it's a toss up between those who think Mack is headed for trouble if we don't do great in the new league, vs. those who think he is woefully underpaid for the great job he is doing and the school needs to pay him more before we lose him.


I think Mack has a nice set of accomplishments at Xavier, particularly in regard to in-game coaching and in-season use of resources available.
I think there are legitimate questions about the amount of talent on the team currently and in the pipeline. This state is not entirely in Mack's control, but will reflect on him to a certain extent
Mack clearly has not had the level of success that Stevens has had to warrant being paid that much money.
I think tournament appearances and wins are expected at Xavier and any coach missing two in a row is going to be feeling some pressure.

[deepX]

What Dash says. The Cintas Center, plus other development bonds that were put together at the time in 1997 have been refinanaced into a broader package for the other projects at lower costs that was available because of the recession. There were other projects that were part of that 1997 placing such as the Gallagher Student Center and the Commons Apartments.

Using the term, "paid off" as to Cintas probably wasn't the best choice, but the original bonds have been refi'ed. Whetever is left on the Cintas debt, is minuscule when taken as a part of the total of everything in the new 2008 deal that gave XU more $$ for Fenwick, Conaton Learning Center, Business College, the Ledgewood reconstruction knocking down the Zumbiel plant, and, and, and...Maybe there is some sharp CPA out there who can seperate out all the components, but.....

Remember that XU also raised $200 million in their capital campaign between 1997 and 2008. However they want to classify where the money is is OK with me.

As far as I'm concerned, though, the amount remaining of Cintas debt is only a small part of the refi with the 2042 expiration. The building is more than self-sustaining and turns a profit. Like I said, XU can classify it however they want.

That doesn't mean, however, that XU doesn't need more money. Of course they do.

You are mixing a lot of different financing projects together but if that's the way you look at it that's fine. The Gallagher Center and the Commons weren't build until 2000/2001 and financed about the same time. The 2008 refinancing and the bonds used to fund the Hoff Quad projects were not at great rates (remember the credit crisis?) but the timing of the new construction was cheaper due to the recession. As you implied, as long as you are happy and want to continue donating money to Xavier that is what counts.
Over the years, XU's financial statement footnotes have contained a lot of information on these projects, for those who take the time to look in it.

Peace

[jhelmes37]

A few didn't pan out? He has 1 true starting caliber player on the entire team that he actually recruited. That would be Semaj.

I still believe in Martin, but obviously the jury is still out.

Teams cannot survive with above average 2-year eligible transfers that sit out a year when there is no real recruiting base.

As I have said, maybe next year all the recruits that had to sit out and the new freshman will be studs and turn things around.

Next year will be a telling year.

Good Lord. These kids all have high D-1 offers other than us. Add two kids who (obviously) f-d up to this year's team and you have another Sweet 16.

Whatever. No use arguing.

[Fireball]

Mack is a couple of years of miserable failure away from his job being in danger. By everything I've read, and my own beliefs as well, he did a superb job with a deck that was stacked against him this year.

All that and a pretty decent recruiting class coming in next year.

I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program...

[Masterofreality]

You are mixing a lot of different financing projects together but if that's the way you look at it that's fine. The Gallagher Center and the Commons weren't build until 2000/2001 and financed about the same time. The 2008 refinancing and the bonds used to fund the Hoff Quad projects were not at great rates (remember the credit crisis?) but the timing of the new construction was cheaper due to the recession. As you implied, as long as you are happy and want to continue donating money to Xavier that is what counts.
Over the years, XU's financial statement footnotes have contained a lot of information on these projects, for those who take the time to look in it.

Peace

Well, there have been a lot of projects and they have ultimately been mixed.

1) Cintas and the Commons were built almost simultaneously with Gallagher close to that time. You seem to be saying that Cintas was the only project planned for in 1997 and that the Commons and Gallagher were built with the financing just kind of "winged" at that time? Doesn't work that way. In fact, Cintas was primarily privately financed. $21 million came from the Century Campaign with the rest of the money coming from seat licenses, suite leasing, private vendor contracts and $20 million in private donations spearheaded by Bob Kohlhepp. Forget footnotes. Just google "Cintas Center Financing" and Top Jimmy will tell you all about it.

2) The Commons Apartments and Gallagher were also funded partly by the Century Campaign.

3) The 2008 refi was at rates a damn site better than in 2007 when the real credit crunch hit. The bonds were issued late in 2008. In 2007, the Prime rate was at 8.25%. By late 2008, the Prime rate was at 4.00%. By the time January 2009 rolled around, Prime was 3.25% where it remains to now. While XU did not get the absolute lowest rates, they are a helluva lot better than they were in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Plus the construction was cheaper and there was $115 million thrown into the Hoff Quad project by the "Great Wonders" fundraiser.

You can look at it how you want to Deep, but my central point remains. Cintas Center itself is a cash cow with no debt caused by itself..except for how XU may have used it in a refi.

Pax.

[STL_XUfan]

Chris Mack on the hot seat?!?! I don't know what some of you are smoking but I am more than a little pissed that you aren't sharing.

1182

[xudash]

Mack is a couple of years of miserable failure away from his job being in danger. By everything I've read, and my own beliefs as well, he did a superb job with a deck that was stacked against him this year.

All that and a pretty decent recruiting class coming in next year.

I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program...

That is worthy of repeating:

I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program

Seriously, I don't have to keep this up for too long, do I?

Oh, it also may be worth mentioning that a little adversity strengthens the metal of effective leaders. Chris Mack falls into that category.

[muskiefan82]

That is worthy of repeating:

I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program
I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program

Seriously, I don't have to keep this up for too long, do I?

Oh, it also may be worth mentioning that a little adversity strengthens the metal of effective leaders. Chris Mack falls into that category.

This will be the season we remember as the one that set up the run to the championship the next year.

[danaandvictory]

That's sad and hilarious at the same time.

Count me among the group of people who were thrilled when Skip took the Wake job.

True and true. I talked to Andy Mac a while back and he definitely mentioned the pressure from Internet and talk radio as wearing on Skip when he decided to move to Wake. I can't imagine he faced less scrutiny there, though.

[UCGRAD4X]

I look forward to looking back (do I need a DeLorean to do that?) on this year as a bump in the road to a National Championship.

[DC Muskie]

True and true. I talked to Andy Mac a while back and he definitely mentioned the pressure from Internet and talk radio as wearing on Skip when he decided to move to Wake. I can't imagine he faced less scrutiny there, though.

Skip left in 2001 when there was only 1 board with about 50 people who posted on it regularly. And it's my understanding that Xavier fans hardly ever call in to talk radio anyway.

If that wore him down, I could only imagine the pressure he faced at Wake, especially after Chris Paul.

[casualfan]

From the reports I have seen Minnesota has been offering roughly $3 mil per season.

They just got turned down by the troll.

also, with regards to Mack's current salary I found this list from USA Today (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1) from last year which has him below $500k.

If you filter by school pay Xavier and Mack are #43 on the list.

[bleedXblue]

I think its safe to say that if we expect to keep coaches for longer than 4-5 years, we have to pay them more.

I expect the new BE affiliation should help make that happen.

Im thinking 1M base plus bonues for winning league titles and winning NCAA games.

[Cheesehead]

I think its safe to say that if we expect to keep coaches for longer than 4-5 years, we have to pay them more.

I expect the new BE affiliation should help make that happen.

Im thinking 1M base plus bonues for winning league titles and winning NCAA games.

I am available! Just saying.

[Michigan Muskie]

I am available! Just saying.

Not so fast cheesy poof. I coached two teams this year to a combined 18-2 record and two league titles. My track record would seamlessly translate to Big East caliber competition and my services are available at a discounted rate due to my loyalty to Xavier basketball. (and lack of any coaching experience above local rec ball leagues, but let's not get persnickety.)

[Masterofreality]

Not so fast cheesy poof. I coached two teams this year to a combined 18-2 record and two league titles. My track record would seamlessly translate to Big East caliber competition and my services are available at a discounted rate due to my loyalty to Xavier basketball. (and lack of any coaching experience above local rec ball leagues, but let's not get persnickety.)

Absolutely you are a viable candidate.

We all know that just Coaching Basketball is "Coaching Basketball". Every level transitions effortlessly to the other. In fact, I am sure that a Gorrilla could stand on an NBA sideline and be as effective as most of those "coaches".

[jhelmes37]

Absolutely you are a viable candidate.

We all know that just Coaching Basketball is "Coaching Basketball". Every level transitions effortlessly to the other. In fact, I am sure that a Gorrilla could stand on an NBA sideline and be as effective as most of those "coaches".

Just make sure to tell your guards to "Follow your shot". Some idiot posters still think this is the key to success in college basketball........

[paulxu]

In fact, I am sure that a Gorrilla could stand on an NBA sideline and be as effective as most of those "coaches".

Only in Phoenix

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0416/nba_g_gorilla11_576.jpg

[Michigan Muskie]

Absolutely you are a viable candidate.

We all know that just Coaching Basketball is "Coaching Basketball". Every level transitions effortlessly to the other. In fact, I am sure that a Gorrilla could stand on an NBA sideline and be as effective as most of those "coaches".

See, now this is a reality you have indeed mastered.

[UCGRAD4X]

Only in Phoenix

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0416/nba_g_gorilla11_576.jpg

The important questions are:

A) Did he follow his shot

B) Did he jump off one or two...feet

C) Did he get T'ed up for no apparent reason except to win a trip to Cancun for the referee

(My bad, #3 only applies to raccoons, not gorillas)

[casualfan]

I don't see this happening, but it's out there so figured it was worth posting.

Adam Zagoria‏@AdamZagoria26m
A few other options at Rutgers... John Giannini, Chris Mack and Chris Mooney

[GoMuskies]

It would be just like Rutgers to hire Dr. John.

[DC Muskie]

I don't see this happening, but it's out there so figured it was worth posting.

Adam Zagoria‏@AdamZagoria26m
A few other options at Rutgers... John Giannini, Chris Mack and Chris Mooney

Where do people come up with these ideas?

Rutgers is a terrible, terrible job.

Gary Waters went there and sucked. Mike Rice went there and apparently got too much Jersey and sucked.

So I am to believe that Chris Mack, Dr. G and Chris Mooney are going to leave and head to...Rutgers? Especially after what just happened?

They will be lucky to land a current head coach.

[smileyy]

Adam Zagoria‏@AdamZagoria26m
A few other options at Rutgers... John Giannini, Chris Mack and Chris Mooney

One of those names is not like the other.

[GoMuskies]

So I am to believe that Chris Mack, Dr. G and Chris Mooney are going to leave and head to...Rutgers? Especially after what just happened?



You really don't think Dr. John would take that job? I think he'd crawl on his hands and knees through broken glass for that gig. Yes, Rutgers sucks. But Dr. John is at LASALLE!

[DC Muskie]

You really don't think Dr. John would take that job? I think he'd crawl on his hands and knees through broken glass for that gig. Yes, Rutgers sucks. But Dr. John is at LASALLE!

If Dr. John wants to end his coaching career at Rutgers, by all means, crawl through broken glass to get it.

Who knew Rutgers was so desirable? I'd love to try and recruit there now after this incident!

[waggy]

I agree Gianinny should take that job.

[DC Muskie]

I would think after taking LaSalle to the NCAA tournament, he would want his next opportunity to be a little easier than trying to win at Rutgers, which hasn't been to the dance since 1991.

[boozehound]

I would think after taking LaSalle to the NCAA tournament, he would want his next opportunity to be a little easier than trying to win at Rutgers, which hasn't been to the dance since 1991.

There you go. This is how bad that job sucks. The pay could be decent though.

[GoMuskies]

If Dr. John wants to end his coaching career at Rutgers, by all means, crawl through broken glass to get it.

Who knew Rutgers was so desirable? I'd love to try and recruit there now after this incident!

Everyone has to pay for their retirement somehow. Dr. J would have to spend 4 years in New Jersey to pay for his. Sure, it seems distasteful...until you note that he's in living in Philly now anyway. Can't be much worse.

[DC Muskie]

Everyone has to pay for their retirement somehow. Dr. J would have to spend 4 years in New Jersey to pay for his. Sure, it seems distasteful...until you note that he's in living in Philly now anyway. Can't be much worse.

Retire at 54. Not bad.

[Masterofreality]

Where do people come up with these ideas?

Rutgers is a terrible, terrible job.

Gary Waters went there and sucked. Mike Rice went there and apparently got too much Jersey and sucked. Fred Hill went there and sucked.

So I am to believe that Chris Mack, Dr. G and Chris Mooney are going to leave and head to...Rutgers? Especially after what just happened?

They will be lucky to land a current head coach.

Fixed that for you.

[GoMuskies]

Retire at 54. Not bad.

And after Rutgers fires him, he can always go get another job on LaSalle's level. Like Cincinnati State. Or Dayton.

[DC Muskie]

And after Rutgers fires him, he can always go get another job on LaSalle's level. Like Cincinnati State. Or Dayton.

GoMuskies everybody! Here all week. Try the veal!

[DC Muskie]

I totally forgot about Fred Hill. That's how awesome the Rutgers job is.

[blobfan]

Unless he is sitting on his heated leather seats in his luxury automobile, Chris Mack's seat won't get luke warm any time soon. I say this not because Xavier is hesitant to can a coach. I say this because we will NOT continue to have seasons like this one.

This year was abomination, anomaly, and a fluke. We will make the tourney next year, and stake our claim as the new flagship of the new Big East.
How awesome is it that a winning season has us losing our minds and predicting doom for the coach and program? The bar keeps rising!

I should run a poll to see how schizophrenic this board actually is.
...
I'm schizophrenic and so am I!

Mack is a couple of years of miserable failure away from his job being in danger. By everything I've read, and my own beliefs as well, he did a superb job with a deck that was stacked against him this year.

All that and a pretty decent recruiting class coming in next year.

I'm amazed that people here are actually worried about the program...
How many coaches in the top 40% of D1 schools are NOT 3-5 years of miserable failure away from losing their jobs?

[UCGRAD4X]

And after Rutgers fires him, he can always go get another job on LaSalle's level. Like Cincinnati State. Or Dayton.

How many NCAA tourney wins does Dayton have in the last....oh...quarter century?

[GoMuskies]

Well, if he gets fired, he can't expect to go back to QUITE the same high level he'd attained at LaSalle. So Dayton might be settling a bit, but that's just the way it goes.

[danaandvictory]

I don't see this happening, but it's out there so figured it was worth posting.

Adam Zagoria‏@AdamZagoria26m
A few other options at Rutgers... John Giannini, Chris Mack and Chris Mooney

Heh, Rutgers. Fart.

If Mooney wouldn't take the Georgia Tech job, why in the world would he go to Rutgers?

I like Giannini a lot, he seems like a really great guy, but going to a program that has never won and trying to take them into an absolutely loaded Big Ten is flat crazy.

[X-band '01]

Let's not forget Kevin Bannon who got fired at Rutgers over a decade ago. What Rice did was tame compared to Bannon; Bannon had his guys running naked wind-sprints during practice.

[Cheesehead]

Let's not forget Kevin Bannon who got fired at Rutgers over a decade ago. What Rice did was tame compared to Bannon; Bannon had his guys running naked wind-sprints during practice.

So, you are saying Rice was just continuing the Rutgers tradition? :lol:

[casualfan]

Let's not forget Kevin Bannon who got fired at Rutgers over a decade ago. What Rice did was tame compared to Bannon; Bannon had his guys running naked wind-sprints during practice.


Players and managers were forced to participate.

[X-band '01]

I completely forgot about the managers being included - Nuts has to be thankful he went to Xavier and not Rutgers.

[nuts4xu]

I completely forgot about the managers being included - Nuts has to be thankful he went to Xavier and not Rutgers.

No doubt, we had a couple of managers that would have made people barf if seen naked.

I thought it was bad enough when a new player would get "greased" to be hazed by the veterans.

Yuck!

[GoMuskies]

There was some talk about Chris Mack's salary earlier in the thread, and I came across some interesting numbers for Gregg Marshall from Wichita State that I think are good for comparison's sake. Also, remember that these numbers are BEFORE Marshall gets any sort of bump for going to the Final Four. When he signed the contract that paid him the amounts set forth below, he had won exactly ZERO NCAA Tournament games at Wichita State. This is a program that two weeks ago was CLEARLY less accomplished and less visible on the national level. They have some built-in advantages being a public university (which is why this information is available) and being the only game in town (unless you love bad minor league hockey, third division arena football and "professional" baseball on the Florence Freedom's level). But from a monetary standpoint, you have to think Xavier needs to AT LEAST be competitive with the Wichita States of the world if we hope to have any chance to fend off overtures to our coaches from ACC, Big Ten, and AAC (kidding) programs.

Annual Fixed Salary:

Annual Base Salary - $277,500
Annual Signing Incentive - $177,500
Annual Radio/TV Appearances - $290,000
Annual PR Appearances - $285,000
Annual Annuity - $125,000
Annual Business-Related Entertainment Stipend - $10,000
Annual Educational Trust for Marshall's Children - $100,000

Total Annual Fixed Salary - $1,265,000


Annual Potential Incentives:

Winning Conference Record - $20,000
Academic Progress Rate of >=.930 - $20,000
At Least 20 Regular Season Wins - $20,000
Fulfill MVC Non-Con Scheduling Policy - $20,000
MVC Champion or Co-Champion - $18,000
MVC Tournament Conference Champion - $18,000
NIT Tournament Appearance - $18,000
Play in NIT Championship Game - $25,000
NCAA Tournament Per-Game Appearance - $36,000
NCAA Sweet 16 - $60,000
NCAA Final 4 - $100,000
NCAA Championship - $200,000
MVC Coach of the Year - $50,000

Best Case Scenario Incentive Total - $742,000
2012-13 Season Incentive Total - $470,000

Total Fixed and Incentive Salary for Gregg Marshall for 2012-2013 Season - $1,735,000


Other Items of Benefit/Interest:

-$376,000 budget for 3 assistant coach salaries
-$65,805 budget for DOBO salary
-Increases for assistant coach and DOBO salaries of $25K (2012), $10K (2013, 2014, 2015), and $35K (2016)
-2 courtesy cars (or equivalent allowance) provided
-Memberships at Crestview CC, Flint Hills National GC, and Genesis Health Club
-Live two blocks from GoMuskies
-16 Tickets per home game
-Minimum 6 trips per year via corporate jet for recruiting
-Jet charter to all away games, except for Springfield, MO, potential Tulsa or KC trips, or other away games within 200 mile radius
-Free transport on charter for Marshall's family to pre-season tournaments, post-season tournaments, and for up to 6 away trips per year

[paulxu]

-Live two blocks from GoMuskies
-16 Tickets per home game

That explains why you get to watch the Shockers

[Masterofreality]

Well, then, it's time for Xavier to step up....other than the living near Go Muskies. That should be a deduct, shouldn't it? :biggrin:

Marshall was making $400,000 more per year than Chris Mack......before this Final 4 run.

And by the way, a few more bucks for the assistants should happen too.

You guys know me. I'm Xavier through and through, but what I found out about the true CMack compensation has made me think that they'd better get their act together over there.

[Titanxman04]

Well, then, it's time for Xavier to step up....other than the living near Go Muskies. That should be a deduct, shouldn't it? :biggrin:

Marshall was making $400,000 more per year than Chris Mack......before this Final 4 run.

And by the way, a few more bucks for the assistants should happen too.

You guys know me. I'm Xavier through and through, but what I found out about the true CMack compensation has made me think that they'd better get their act together over there.

I agree with that last part. I think Mack is Xavier through and through as well...until some fat pay check comes his way and he remembers that his family is his first team. Hard to say no.

[waggy]

what I found out about the true CMack compensation has made me think that they'd better get their act together over there.

With the profitibility numbers that were quoted in an article or two in the past few months it would sure seem that very very competitive coaches pay shouldn't really be a problem.

[LA Muskie]

With the profitibility numbers that were quoted in an article or two in the past few months it would sure seem that very very competitive coaches pay shouldn't really be a problem.

Don't get me wrong -- I love the positive press. But I don't know how reliable the "profitability" numbers are for a private university. Regardless, as the only net cash flow sport in our athletic department, bear in mind that it must also fund the other sports. And I believe it also helps fund non-athletic activities.

[Kahns Krazy]

For the third time (absent evidence to the contrary) USA published a base salary for Mack of $484,399.

From their article, that is a documented number for 2012. They did not have information (as they did for other coaches) about outside revenue sources, and noted that also.

That is a tax return number that reflects the amount paid by the university to Mack. It would not include any amounts paid by 3rd parties such as shoe contracts, media appearance fees, Learfield, etc. It would also not include the value of perks provided by third parties - country clubs, car companies, etc.

Xavier is aware that their tax returns are public, and my strong suspicion is that they structure Mack's deal to keep as much comp off of that return as possible.

[Kahns Krazy]

The original 1997 bonds were "permanent financing" and had various maturities over the original 25 year term. Approx $40 million was refinanced in 2006 and the vast majority of that is still outstanding. Xavier pushed principal payments out as far as possible in 2008 in order to increase annual debt service capacity so that they could leverage the university even more so they could go deeper in debt for the CTL & WCB and then the new dorm. Xavier is now a highly leveraged organization with minimal additional borrowing ability.

Maybe it's different in the non-profit world, but I don't consider an organization with $195 million in cash and liquid investments vs. $198 million in long term debt to be "highly leveraged".

[xu95]

Shannon at one point said that with all the incentives, Mack was making more here than Miller did when he left. I know that was slightly north of 1 million. I don't think Chris is explaining too much about his salary.

[X-man]

Maybe it's different in the non-profit world, but I don't consider an organization with $195 million in cash and liquid investments vs. $198 million in long term debt to be "highly leveraged".

Trust me, "deepX" knows what he is talking about.