Big East News

[paulxu]

As there is no longer a Catholic 7, here's a thread for general Big East news.

[X-band '01]

Apparently a new forum for Big East posts as well. Thanks Muskie - hope these also show up among recent posts as well.

[paulxu]

I did see that ESPN put up the story on their BB page with a video of some lady doing a phone interview with Dana O'Neil.
They tried hard to be neutral...didn't quite get there.

[paulxu]

From St Louis paper this morning:


Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell reported Sunday that a Big East source told him that if the league got its operations in order quickly, it could add two more teams for next season and SLU was a leading candidate.


Along with SLU, Dayton and Richmond are considered candidates to join the league. The league would probably take just one Midwest school to keep a regional balance, though the possibility remains of expanding beyond 12 teams.

If SLU and one of the others go, Datyon would be a real geographical outlier for the A10 unless they added schools in the midwest. Maybe Dayton would go to the MVC to replace Creighton.

It would seem that 12 is still possible for next year, and that Richmond/VCU would be in the mix to balance the geography.
Other articles noted the confernce had applications from a number of schools.
It might be a SLU/Dayton and Richmond/VCU cage war at this point.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/slu-left-behind-for-now-as-new-big-east-adds/article_25b153ae-80fe-5818-a24a-411965bce7ad.html

[Masterofreality]

Ok.

For now, enough of the VCU talk.

One item that has not been brought out, but is a significant fly in the ointment about VCU- and was related to me at the meeting that I attended Monday night with high level Xavier folks:

VCU is a public institution that is subject to sunshine laws as to public disclosure of documents. This extends to everything including the athletic programs. One of the things that the Big East Presidents are wanting to have is privacy- especially when it comes to financial dealings- so they don't have to worry about snoopy press. They have that with all private institutions who are not subject to disclosure. If VCU is let in, then every document that is related to league dealings becomes publically available through freedom of information.

Not saying that VCU is totally out forever, but this is a huge strike against them, besides the concern over institutional fit.

[DC Muskie]

Why is that a big deal if they left a conference that had public institutions?

I don't get the privacy needs.

[Masterofreality]

Why is that a big deal if they left a conference that had public institutions?

I don't get the privacy needs.

Snoopy press that could also precipitate NCAA investigations and too much info on financial dealings. Also may compromise the schools' abilities to handle things in house.

And they didn't like the way that the old league had to report.

[paulxu]

Sort of like Syracuse?

MOR, that is very interesting. The FOIA bug had been noted before, but from your comments is more than a rumor.
This would seem to put Richmond on a good path if they decide to keep geographical balance if they go to 12.

Leaving the St Louis/Dayton cage match as the title bout.

[muskienick]

Why is that a big deal if they left a conference that had public institutions?

I don't get the privacy needs.

I agree, DC.

Also, one might ask the folks who have used this excuse to exclude VCU to name some of the instances when serious negative consequences resulted from the press or other agencies getting information from a public institution that affected that institution's private partners.

It seems to me that one should be more wary of the types of situations that seemingly have been occurring at institutions like Syracuse University for quite some time. (Syracuse is a private institution and the impending investigation of those Boeheim scandals could have seriously affected the reputations of the other members of the old Big East by association).

Shit happens!!!

[aceylone7777]

Sort of like Syracuse?

MOR, that is very interesting. The FOIA bug had been noted before, but from your comments is more than a rumor.
This would seem to put Richmond on a good path if they decide to keep geographical balance if they go to 12.

Leaving the St Louis/Dayton cage match as the title bout.

And this is what will happen to Dayton...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NwBmMgNQg

[DC Muskie]

Snoopy press that could also precipitate NCAA investigations and too much info on financial dealings. Also may compromise the schools' abilities to handle things in house.

And they didn't like the way that the old league had to report.

Sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.

They have tied their ships to major collegiate athletics, and then want to be sure they can do it in secrecy?

What do they do in house that would spur NCAA investigations if they had to be more transparent?

Sorry I know you don't have the answers, and are just reporting the thinking...I just have a small problem in understanding what the why...it doesn't hold much water for me.

[coasterville95]

Paul,

You aren't the only one to mention the mythical cage war to get that final spot.

It would an interesting game of musical chairs if SLU/Dayton/Richmond are told there are only going to be 2 chairs when the music stops. High stakes musical chairs.

UD Pride is seeming to calm down (except for a few outliers) - as someone else posted the few rational fans seem to understand where they went wrong. Right now, its the SLU board that is in jilted lover mode. Though my hardiest laugh was one from one of the UC boards, a post that actually expressed the news as if UC was turning its back on the Big East. Like UC is in control, and that those other schools just don't understand the value of football. I haven't gone back to see if other posters called the person out for being so delussional the reservation is in a different country. Stuff like "We gave up on the Big East because it wasn't filling our needs as a big time football program"

I've heard the FOI aka Sunshine laws as a major hurdle for VCU from other sources. There is value in keeping everything private. Recall when a certain Lexus driving racoon left, due to sunshine laws a PDF of his lucrative new contract was in our hands within hours.

[DC Muskie]

It seems to me that one should be more wary of the types of situations that seemingly have been occurring at institutions like Syracuse University for quite some time. (Syracuse is a private institution and the impending investigation of those Boeheim scandals could have seriously affected the reputations of the other members of the old Big East by association).

Shit happens!!!

Exactly.

[xu95]

Hey did you guys know that MOR had a meeting with "high level Xavier peeps" on Monday? I think this is the third or fourth time I have read that. :wink:

[ammtd34]

UD Pride is seeming to calm down .

Though the Worst Day In Flyer History thread is pretty funny.

[coasterville95]

Hey did you guys know that MOR had a meeting with "high level Xavier peeps" on Monday? I think this is the third or fourth time I have read that. :wink:

Almost like some other poster yammering about his seat location back in November?

[PMI]

Please just leave it at ten if they are hellbent on keeping VCU out for being public. I seriously don't get the SLU love at all. I mean, I really see them as just as big a risk as dayton. Majerus is dead, and his players will be gone soon. Who's to say they won't just go back to being what they've ALWAYS been? Plus, they have some APR problems right now. Nice arena from what I hear, but as much as we all hate dayton, you can't say they don't draw support, so it's not like SLU has some huge advantage over them there. I just don't see any private school no-brainers left out there. Isn't the point to strengthen the conference?

[MHettel]

Sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.

They have tied their ships to major collegiate athletics, and then want to be sure they can do it in secrecy?

What do they do in house that would spur NCAA investigations if they had to be more transparent?

Sorry I know you don't have the answers, and are just reporting the thinking...I just have a small problem in understanding what the why...it doesn't hold much water for me.

When you are private, what you do and why you do it is nobody's business. When public, what you do is everyone's business, then they get to search for a motive on why you did what you did. Huge drawbacks being public.

If you've ever work for a publicly traded company AND a private company in the Finance or other Corporate areas you would know exactly how painful it is to have govt / auditors / regulators peering over your shoulder at every turn.

Answer this question. If faced with 2 equal job offers, where one requires that your salary and performance rating be publicly disclosed, and the other did not, which would you take.

[GoMuskies]

I work at a private company, and the avoidance of public company headaches is a wonderful thing.

I'm not sure it should be enough to keep VCU out, but in general I'm sure the powers that be in the BE are thrilled to be fully private.

[xudash]

Print edition of Jacksonville paper has a large article titled, "Xavier moves up to new Big East." It's an AP article. And it's almost all about Xavier.

Just found that wonderful and interesting this morning. Highly complimentary...."a (Jesuit) school that developed a nationally prominent program", etc.

Found it under a different banner in the San Antonio paper:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/article/Xavier-thinks-it-can-measure-up-in-Big-East-4370414.php

[DC Muskie]

I work at a private company, and the avoidance of public company headaches is a wonderful thing.

I'm not sure it should be enough to keep VCU out, but in general I'm sure the powers that be in the BE are thrilled to be fully private.

You still have headaches. Nonprofit organizations still have to file 990, have audits, etc. These are not private companies driven to generate profits. They might act like companies driven to generate profits, but they are in fact nonprofit organizations.

To me, having nine Catholic schools put together a television deal worth half a billion dollars is something they don't want to have to discuss publicly, or have their emails summoned.

[GoMuskies]

Of course there are still headaches. Knocking some extras off the list is fabulous, though. And I'm sure you're right on the second part, which I have no problem with.

I wouldn't let it keep out VCU.

[American X]

I am not convinced Big East expansion to 12 will be anytime soon. My prognostication is that it will stay at 10 until Notre Dame tires of being a quasi-ACC member and moves its basketball and Olympic sports to their natural fit in the Big East. Then it will open up to add #12, which down the road could be any number of programs. Another no-brainer like Xavier is not out there currently, but through the rise and fall another program could demonstrate sustained success.

SLU has a lot of great features, but the long-term potential is not obvious yet. They have a serious shot at a run to the Final Four this year, but could also fall off the table.

[GoMuskies]

There's no way ND is moving to the Big East. The Olympic Sports and baseball in this league are gonna be bad. Real bad. ND is going to want no part of that.

[Muskie]

Apparently a new forum for Big East posts as well. Thanks Muskie - hope these also show up among recent posts as well.
Should be working.

[DC Muskie]

Of course there are still headaches. Knocking some extras off the list is fabulous, though. And I'm sure you're right on the second part, which I have no problem with.

I wouldn't let it keep out VCU.

I feel the same way. I guess for me, it just sucks that VCU isn't considered.

I'm totally with PMI on the SLU thing. If you wanted an example of a program that will fall back to whatever it was before, look no further than SLU.

[DC Muskie]

I am not convinced Big East expansion to 12 will be anytime soon. My prognostication is that it will stay at 10 until Notre Dame tires of being a quasi-ACC member and moves its basketball and Olympic sports to their natural fit in the Big East. Then it will open up to add #12, which down the road could be any number of programs. Another no-brainer like Xavier is not out there currently, but through the rise and fall another program could demonstrate sustained success.

SLU has a lot of great features, but the long-term potential is not obvious yet. They have a serious shot at a run to the Final Four this year, but could also fall off the table.

There is one school that I am convinced will not have D 1 football much longer if, and only if, the ACC falls apart.

And that's Wake.

Of course, I do not think the ACC will fall apart, which makes my opinion useless. But then again it's never been overall helpful either.

[Muskie]

There is one school that I am convinced will not have D 1 football much longer if, and only if, the ACC falls apart.

And that's Wake.

Of course, I do not think the ACC will fall apart, which makes my opinion useless. But then again it's never been overall helpful either.

Would you rather have Wake Forest (sans Football and with Jeff Bezdelik (Sp)) or Saint Louis (with Jim Crews)?

I take SLU personally.

[GoMuskies]

SLU was solid in C-USA with Spoon and with Romar.

I think they're a fine 11/12 member. They're better than DePaul (not a high bar). But if we stick at 10 and don't add them, I'd be just fine with that, too.

[danaandvictory]

They have tied their ships to major collegiate athletics, and then want to be sure they can do it in secrecy?


I get that you don't think it should be a concern, but it apparently is for those making the decisions because it's an issue I'd heard discussed before.

Personally I think the "institutional fit" explanation is good enough to eliminate VCU even though they tick all the other boxes. But I'm the kind of crotchety person who thinks stuff like that should matter.

[DC Muskie]

Would you rather have Wake Forest (sans Football and with Jeff Bezdelik (Sp)) or Saint Louis (with Jim Crews)?

I take SLU personally.

I'd take Wake. When's the last time we ever landed someone from the St. Louis area?

And Bezdelik won't be there much longer.

[X-Fan]

I'd take Wake. When's the last time we ever landed someone from the St. Louis area?

And Bezdelik won't be there much longer.
Yep and Yep.

[PMI]

Would you rather have Wake Forest (sans Football and with Jeff Bezdelik (Sp)) or Saint Louis (with Jim Crews)?

I take SLU personally.

Herpes. I'll take herpes if the other choices are those two coaches. Luckily, they're both old and shouldn't be at their spots much longer. I would take Wake Forest as a program over SLU 11 times out of 10. It may have been a little while, but they have a lot of basketball history and support. There's no reason they can't return to significance if they can cut that dead weight of a coach they have. But if my choice is Wake WITH Bzdelik, then herpes.

[MHettel]

I think they should go to 12 as soon as possible. On year from now seems most likely. I think we should strike while the iron is hot. The MVC, A10, and "old BE" are all in need of some rationalization of their membership, and will scramble to create stability.

UCONN, UC, Memphis and Temple make up a formidable core for the old BE. There are several other crappy fball schools in there as well. But, those 4 could try to make a play to grab some of the other decent BBall Schools available. Imagine if they hooked up with (any of) VCU, Richmond, UD, SLU, or St. Joes. Imagine if you are one of those schools are are faced with waiting for the BE to expand, or could bite the bullet and hook up with these guys. Suddenly, anything that MIGHT have been attractive is now unavailable for the BE, so they stay at 10, which isn't terrible but limits their markets and flies in the face of the conference expansion trend which is very apparent.

I think you gobble up as many markets as possible while you have the ability to do so. I'd personally take SLU and Richmond to go to 12. If ND ever comes available (I still think the FOX relationship could help them create more leverage for their fball deal), then you take them and either add one more (UD) and get to 14, or add 3 more and try to figure out a way to expand West to grab Gonzaga.

[PMI]

I think they should go to 12 as soon as possible. On year from now seems most likely. I think we should strike while the iron is hot. The MVC, A10, and "old BE" are all in need of some rationalization of their membership, and will scramble to create stability.

UCONN, UC, Memphis and Temple make up a formidable core for the old BE. There are several other crappy fball schools in there as well. But, those 4 could try to make a play to grab some of the other decent BBall Schools available. Imagine if they hooked up with (any of) VCU, Richmond, UD, SLU, or St. Joes. Imagine if you are one of those schools are are faced with waiting for the BE to expand, or could bite the bullet and hook up with these guys. Suddenly, anything that MIGHT have been attractive is now unavailable for the BE, so they stay at 10, which isn't terrible but limits their markets and flies in the face of the conference expansion trend which is very apparent.

I think you gobble up as many markets as possible while you have the ability to do so. I'd personally take SLU and Richmond to go to 12. If ND ever comes available (I still think the FOX relationship could help them create more leverage for their fball deal), then you take them and either add one more (UD) and get to 14, or add 3 more and try to figure out a way to expand West to grab Gonzaga.

I strongly disagree. I don't think they should ever go to 12 unless there's a Notre Dame-type no-brainer. I realize I probably won't get my wish, but taking Richmond and SLU just to get to 12? You may be picking the two bottom feeders of the future, and for what?

[_LH]

I strongly disagree. I don't think they should ever go to 12 unless there's a Notre Dame-type no-brainer. I realize I probably won't get my wish, but taking Richmond and SLU just to get to 12? You may be picking the two bottom feeders of the future, and for what?

I agree. There is no reason to expand just to expand. I also don't see anyone that just plays bball joining the American 12. You can't trust any of them to stay in that league. Houston wants to go to the B12 as I'm sure Memphis would. UC, UCONN and Temple want to get in the ACC.

On a side note, why are UC and UCONN considered no brainers if the ACC needs to add teams. The ACC will be 14 teams, so to me they would need to lose 4 programs before entertaining UCONN and UC. Even with that, why not Temple over UC? Is it because Santa Ono sent the ACC a Christmas gift?

[coasterville95]

Santa Ono sent the ACC a five pound box of money?

[Masterofreality]

Hey did you guys know that MOR had a meeting with "high level Xavier peeps" on Monday? I think this is the third or fourth time I have read that. :wink:

No brag, just fact.

I know you're just funning with me '95, but I'm just wanting to let everyone know that this stuff didn't come out of my delusional head and that it comes from credible sources. If someone wants to investigate who the folks were, I'm sure that it can be found out but not my place to disclose.

[MHettel]

I strongly disagree. I don't think they should ever go to 12 unless there's a Notre Dame-type no-brainer. I realize I probably won't get my wish, but taking Richmond and SLU just to get to 12? You may be picking the two bottom feeders of the future, and for what?

You take slu and Richmond to get St. Louis and Richmond marks. It's been about money, it's currently about money, and it will always be about money. The most money comes from tv broadcasts, and the more markets you have the more leverage Fox has in negotiating the deals with cable / satellite providers. That how fox gets paid. You need national programming interest, and you get that by connecting to as many markets as possible, and the wider the net the better the coverage. I think 12 for sure. Anything beyond that really requires a situational dependent analysis. ND availability would have to be something to consider, but few other situations would prompt those discussions

[DC Muskie]

Why the need to expand so quickly?

We better hope we get good ratings right off the bat. Fox better have their marketing shit together from Day 1.

[DC Muskie]

You take slu and Richmond to get St. Louis and Richmond marks. It's been about money, it's currently about money, and it will always be about money. The most money comes from tv broadcasts, and the more markets you have the more leverage Fox has in negotiating the deals with cable / satellite providers. That how fox gets paid. You need national programming interest, and you get that by connecting to as many markets as possible, and the wider the net the better the coverage. I think 12 for sure. Anything beyond that really requires a situational dependent analysis. ND availability would have to be something to consider, but few other situations would prompt those discussions

If it was about Fox getting paid, then why didn't they go to 12 right away?

[MHettel]

Why the need to expand so quickly?

We better hope we get good ratings right off the bat. Fox better have their marketing shit together from Day 1.

Thats something that NOBODY seems to be focused on. Fox is taking on ESPN, and we've hitched ourselves to that. If Fox fails, what happens? How much leverage would we have with ESPN in that scenario. This whole thing has a fairly large downside, if it goes bad.

Risk is often measured by severity and likelihood I give a low likelihood that it all goes sideways but if it does, it could be a REAL problem.

And if the plan is to expand at all, then the best thing to do is act now. You dont want SLU and Richmond and UD and possibly VCU considering their options. The "old" BE, the MVC and the A10 are all pitted against each other right now for survival. Each conference is looking for depth and stability, and once achieved, it might get much tougher to pry out the teams we want. Strike now (soon) while everyone is in recovery mode.

[MHettel]

Define right way.

It's known that they discussed going to 12 immediatly. It could just be an issue of logistics. Or it could be that they couldnt finalize which 2 would be added. But if they add 2 for the following year, wouldn't that constitute "right away"? It's not like it's 10 years later. They made all this happen in 3-4 months, so I'm thinking they just went with 10 for now due to the ability to manage the whole situation a bit better.

i like the idea of 12. heck I like the idea of 16. It appears that the conference leadership also likes 12 enough to have considered it as an option, and their current talking points do not rule it out in the near future.

i think we're all expecting 12 in the very near future, whether you like it or not.

[LA Muskie]

Sort of like Syracuse?

MOR, that is very interesting. The FOIA bug had been noted before, but from your comments is more than a rumor.
This would seem to put Richmond on a good path if they decide to keep geographical balance if they go to 12.

Leaving the St Louis/Dayton cage match as the title bout.
This is true. Someone did mention it as a possibility, but there has been no reporting on this issue. This is corroboration. And it makes sense.

[LA Muskie]

Sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.

They have tied their ships to major collegiate athletics, and then want to be sure they can do it in secrecy?

What do they do in house that would spur NCAA investigations if they had to be more transparent?

Sorry I know you don't have the answers, and are just reporting the thinking...I just have a small problem in understanding what the why...it doesn't hold much water for me.
I can see it being a factor. There is value in being able to manage your business without having to disclose everything you are doing to the public.

I doubt it has anything to do with NCAA investigations or things like that. It's much more likely the competitive business advantage one has from being able to do its work in private.

[LA Muskie]

There is one school that I am convinced will not have D 1 football much longer if, and only if, the ACC falls apart.

And that's Wake.

Of course, I do not think the ACC will fall apart, which makes my opinion useless. But then again it's never been overall helpful either.
I agree with this, and it was precisely the school I was thinking of when I mentioned that the conference may be playing a wait-and-see approach to see what happens with the ACC and the "sorta" football schools.

[LA Muskie]

Would you rather have Wake Forest (sans Football and with Jeff Bezdelik (Sp)) or Saint Louis (with Jim Crews)?

I take SLU personally.
I'd take Wake in a heartbeat. You don't disqualify a school to join a conference based on its current basketball coach. That said I don't think it would be Wake vs SLU. I think it would be Wake vs Richmond/VCU. SLU is competing with Dayton.

[PMI]

You take slu and Richmond to get St. Louis and Richmond marks. It's been about money, it's currently about money, and it will always be about money. The most money comes from tv broadcasts, and the more markets you have the more leverage Fox has in negotiating the deals with cable / satellite providers. That how fox gets paid. You need national programming interest, and you get that by connecting to as many markets as possible, and the wider the net the better the coverage. I think 12 for sure. Anything beyond that really requires a situational dependent analysis. ND availability would have to be something to consider, but few other situations would prompt those discussions

OK, then why not take dayton? We can rag on them all we want, but you can't deny those people watch basketball in big numbers. Why not go down and get Barry University to check off the Miami market? Maybe grab Detroit Mercy and Robert Morris while we're at it. At the end of the day, it's about creating a quality basketball league. If the product is good, the rest will take care of itself. That's not to say the markets don't matter, or that they never will expand, but I don't see the need to rush into adding two teams, solely for their markets, that could legitimately end up being the next Seton Hall and Depaul. If they suck, how many people in those markets will be watching? If you think it doesn't matter how their local teams do and they'll watch anyway, then why not keep it as is? The best scenario for this league is not Fox beating ESPN in the next couple years, or grabbing as many big markets as possible. It's being great on the court. The rest will take care of itself if that happens.

[paulxu]

On a completely unrelated note, this little lady in the middle had some small part in raising the standards of our program by sheparding many players through to graduation, and helping us along the "path to excellence" that is stopping in the Big East.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-dwQCdibA&feature=player_embedded

[DC Muskie]

Thats something that NOBODY seems to be focused on. Fox is taking on ESPN, and we've hitched ourselves to that. If Fox fails, what happens? How much leverage would we have with ESPN in that scenario. This whole thing has a fairly large downside, if it goes bad.

Fox is giving us a contract for 12 years. If at any point Fox bails, do you not think ESPN or another network would pick up games that feature us Georgetown, Nova, Butler, etc?

There is a risk we are taking, but it's really not a big one. Fox has done pretty well taking risks and making them pay off.

[danaandvictory]

This is true. Someone did mention it as a possibility, but there has been no reporting on this issue. This is corroboration. And it makes sense.

I think I probably mentioned it as a WAG, and then I heard the same thing from someone who would know. Which was gratifying, because I usually pull things directly out of my ass.

[DC Muskie]

It's being great on the court.

This is what it boils down to. If the programs in this conference do not win, none of this matters. It's not the markets, it's about winning.

Xavier/Dayton got a terrible national draw on ESPN. It's not our fault Dayton sucks.

[MHettel]

OK, then why not take dayton? We can rag on them all we want, but you can't deny those people watch basketball in big numbers. Why not go down and get Barry University to check off the Miami market? Maybe grab Detroit Mercy and Robert Morris while we're at it. At the end of the day, it's about creating a quality basketball league. If the product is good, the rest will take care of itself. That's not to say the markets don't matter, or that they never will expand, but I don't see the need to rush into adding two teams, solely for their markets, that could legitimately end up being the next Seton Hall and Depaul. If they suck, how many people in those markets will be watching? If you think it doesn't matter how their local teams do and they'll watch anyway, then why not keep it as is? The best scenario for this league is not Fox beating ESPN in the next couple years, or grabbing as many big markets as possible. It's being great on the court. The rest will take care of itself if that happens.

Here we go again with the Dayton market. 2 things. it overlaps the Cincy market, not entirely overlaps it, but there is common ground between the 2. Secondly, PEOPLE IN DAYTON ALREADY WATCH A TON OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL without Dayton being on tv, so what exactly do they expect to gain from adding Dayton? More people in Dayton watching? No. The goal is to tap a market where people DONT WATCH a ton of college basketball already, and adding a local team could MAKE THEM WATCH MORE. Fuck.

So, assume you are right about the markets and Dayton is SOOOO attractive. Wouldnt they be in before Creighton?

So, assume it's not about markets and more about institutional fit, facilities, commitment to BBall and just BBall in general. Would Dayton score high marks in these areas as well?

Now assume it's about geography. Dayton fits better than St. Louis and Creighton.

In reality, it's a little bit about all of teh above. But the facts are, Dayton just doesn't score as high on the "market" rankings as you think they do. There are 5 or more very solid BBall programs within a couple hours of Dayton. You think peoiple in Dayton are watching Dayton games or IU? Dayton games or OSU? Dayton games or Cincy, or UK, or XU...

Lets now discuss bottom feeders. name ONE of the main big conferences that doesn't have at least a couple bottom feeders. Penn State, Northwestern, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, Rutgers, South Florida, Auburn, BC, the list is LOOOONG. You have to have a mix of teams, some of which are always good, some of which are sometimes good, and some of which are rarely good. The alternative is a conference that has a bunch of 9-7 teams at the end of the season. And when you are in THAT scenario, you are forced to schedule only cupcakes in the OOC so you dont take any losses into conference play.

and, from a national relevence standpoint, bigger is better. Lets say you have a 16 team conference and 7 teams make it (44%). Then a smaller conference of 12 has a similar percentage of teams make it (5). Thats 2 less teams in the dance with a chance to go deep and bring in notoriety and dollars for the conference. No do the same thing for a 10 team conference which gets 4 teams in. With any bad luck the entire conference could be home after the first weekend.

the number of tourney teams per conference, while not important to you, are the types of things that analysts talk about and they shape perceptions. I dont want to see a graphic of teams per conference and see a 10 team BE coming 6th or 7th on that list. I want to be in the top 3. Thats the difference between SAYING that you are a basketball focused confernece and having OTHER PEOPLE say that you are a basketball focused conference.

[DC Muskie]

You are mixing football conference structures and applying it to basketball.

Far more people watch Boston College play NC State in college football then watch North Carolina play Kentucky in basketball.

So the bottom feeders of conferences created for football, like the ACC, get 4 teams in the tournament one year. Leagues that are structured for basketball, like the A10 get 5. Eliminate the bottom feeders of the A10 and the A10 could have received more bids.

[MHettel]

Fox is giving us a contract for 12 years. If at any point Fox bails, do you not think ESPN or another network would pick up games that feature us Georgetown, Nova, Butler, etc?

There is a risk we are taking, but it's really not a big one. Fox has done pretty well taking risks and making them pay off.

??????????????????

What the hell goes on in your head? Fox is waging war on ESPN. We're now completely aligned with FOX, and are essentaill the tip of the speak when it comes to stealing some of the dominance that ESPN has in college hoops. If Fox fails, do you REALLY think ESPN will just stroll on in and throw a 12 year deal with $500 million at our feet? No, they wont do that at all. They will make an example out of us. They will allow us and GTOWN and everyone else to wither away into obscurity without a TV deal while they look at the other conferneces and say "let that be a lesson to you"

You might be right that FOX has a good chance of being succesfull in this endeavor, but putting your head in the sand when it comes to how high the stakes are is just choosing to be ignorant.

[DC Muskie]

By the way MH, I'm not if you know that the MWC had five bids to the dance with just 9 teams. The ACC got four in out of 12 teams.

So the "more teams the better percentage of bids" theory that you have...is not true.

[DC Muskie]

??????????????????

What the hell goes on in your head? Fox is waging war on ESPN. We're now completely aligned with FOX, and are essentaill the tip of the speak when it comes to stealing some of the dominance that ESPN has in college hoops. If Fox fails, do you REALLY think ESPN will just stroll on in and throw a 12 year deal with $500 million at our feet? No, they wont do that at all. They will make an example out of us. They will allow us and GTOWN and everyone else to wither away into obscurity without a TV deal while they look at the other conferneces and say "let that be a lesson to you"

You might be right that FOX has a good chance of being succesfull in this endeavor, but putting your head in the sand when it comes to how high the stakes are is just choosing to be ignorant.

What planet do you live on that ESPN is going to make an example of us by not showing our games? ESPN is not interested in making money?

Did you know that Fox also has MLB, NFL, UFC and the World Cup for the next 12 or so years as well? You probably didn't. You don't know much about anything really.

[MHettel]

What planet do you live on that ESPN is going to make an example of us by not showing our games? ESPN is not interested in making money?

Did you know that Fox also has MLB, NFL, UFC and the World Cup for the next 12 or so years as well? You probably didn't. You don't know much about anything really.

I said it earlier. Risk is typically measure by severity and likelihood.

i think there is a low likelihood that this Fox deal turns bad. But if it did it could be severe.

My impression of what you beleive is that there is a low likelihood and low severity. I cant get my head around that. It would be bad if this didnt work.

[DC Muskie]

My impression of what you beleive is that there is a low likelihood and low severity. I cant get my head around that. It would be bad if this didnt work.

Have you simply not been paying attention for the past year and half, or do you choose to ignore what the market has done?

Fox came out of the blue this past year. If it fails, the risk is we go back to what we had before. What makes you think we are going to be wiped off the television map?

Tell me what you think will happen say six years from now if Fox isn't getting the return on it's investment?

[MHettel]

Have you simply not been paying attention for the past year and half, or do you choose to ignore what the market has done?

Fox came out of the blue this past year. If it fails, the risk is we go back to what we had before. What makes you think we are going to be wiped off the television map?

Tell me what you think will happen say six years from now if Fox isn't getting the return on it's investment?

You know hat they say, "ignorance is bliss."

Fox already has the MLB and NFL and UFC. I get that. But they broadcast it on their main network. they plan to roll out a 24 hours sports only network here. That means 24 hours a day, 365 days a year of new programming. Maybe they move their main Fox network stuff over, but thats just a handful of Saturdays and Sundays each year, and then they have a hole in programming on the Main Network side.

I guess I'm a little more risk averse than you. Thats probably because I have a real job.

[DC Muskie]

You know hat they say, "ignorance is bliss."

Fox already has the MLB and NFL and UFC. I get that. But they broadcast it on their main network. they plan to roll out a 24 hours sports only network here. That means 24 hours a day, 365 days a year of new programming. Maybe they move their main Fox network stuff over, but thats just a handful of Saturdays and Sundays each year, and then they have a hole in programming on the Main Network side.

I guess I'm a little more risk averse than you. Thats probably because I have a real job.

I'm not sure you answered the question.

What do you think happens to us if Fox bails? Do you think we will never be on tv again? Is that your stance?

Just focus on that point.

[PMI]

Here we go again with the Dayton market. 2 things. it overlaps the Cincy market, not entirely overlaps it, but there is common ground between the 2. Secondly, PEOPLE IN DAYTON ALREADY WATCH A TON OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL without Dayton being on tv, so what exactly do they expect to gain from adding Dayton? More people in Dayton watching? No. The goal is to tap a market where people DONT WATCH a ton of college basketball already, and adding a local team could MAKE THEM WATCH MORE. Fuck.

So, assume you are right about the markets and Dayton is SOOOO attractive. Wouldnt they be in before Creighton?

So, assume it's not about markets and more about institutional fit, facilities, commitment to BBall and just BBall in general. Would Dayton score high marks in these areas as well?

Now assume it's about geography. Dayton fits better than St. Louis and Creighton.

In reality, it's a little bit about all of teh above. But the facts are, Dayton just doesn't score as high on the "market" rankings as you think they do. There are 5 or more very solid BBall programs within a couple hours of Dayton. You think peoiple in Dayton are watching Dayton games or IU? Dayton games or OSU? Dayton games or Cincy, or UK, or XU...

Lets now discuss bottom feeders. name ONE of the main big conferences that doesn't have at least a couple bottom feeders. Penn State, Northwestern, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, Rutgers, South Florida, Auburn, BC, the list is LOOOONG. You have to have a mix of teams, some of which are always good, some of which are sometimes good, and some of which are rarely good. The alternative is a conference that has a bunch of 9-7 teams at the end of the season. And when you are in THAT scenario, you are forced to schedule only cupcakes in the OOC so you dont take any losses into conference play.

and, from a national relevence standpoint, bigger is better. Lets say you have a 16 team conference and 7 teams make it (44%). Then a smaller conference of 12 has a similar percentage of teams make it (5). Thats 2 less teams in the dance with a chance to go deep and bring in notoriety and dollars for the conference. No do the same thing for a 10 team conference which gets 4 teams in. With any bad luck the entire conference could be home after the first weekend.

the number of tourney teams per conference, while not important to you, are the types of things that analysts talk about and they shape perceptions. I dont want to see a graphic of teams per conference and see a 10 team BE coming 6th or 7th on that list. I want to be in the top 3. Thats the difference between SAYING that you are a basketball focused confernece and having OTHER PEOPLE say that you are a basketball focused conference.

No they wouldn't be in before Creighton, because Creighton is a better basketball program. That's my whole point, man. The other shit is secondary. This is about basketball. Kansas is in the middle of nowhere and I'm pretty sure any basketball conference would take that addition. You're right in that it's a little bit about all of the above. A little bit. But it's a LOT about basketball. You can believe that Fox and ESPN are going to have their people fights until the bloody death like some scene out of Anchorman all you want, but the bottom line is, if Xavier, Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Butler, etc. all remain great programs, this league is in no jeopardy. Good players will keep coming and the games will be on TV.

As for the bottom feeders, of course every conference has them. It's impossible for everyone to win! But you don't actively seek out new bottom feeders. Nobody in the current Big East thought, "You know what, we should add X, BU and CU to be our three worst programs so that people from Cinci, Indi, and Omaha watch more of our basketball games." Why would you just add Richmond and SLU if you don't legitimately believe in their basketball sustainability (which maybe they do even if I don't)?

As for "bigger is better," well wasn't that the model of the old, dead Big East? The football conferences are certainly going that route, but they have/had the luxury of having plenty of big time programs programs that put football up top, lining up at their doorsteps waiting to get in. How many elite, private basketball only schools are out there lining up for us? The answer is zero. If we could get ND, great, but that's not the case. With that in mind, as soon as you start getting bigger for the sake of getting bigger, all you're really doing is adding programs that aren't as good at what you've already got.

[PMI]

On second thought, why am I wasting time trying to convince the guy who a year ago thought we should go independent? Clearly you don't get it.

[LA Muskie]

??????????????????

What the hell goes on in your head? Fox is waging war on ESPN. We're now completely aligned with FOX, and are essentaill the tip of the speak when it comes to stealing some of the dominance that ESPN has in college hoops. If Fox fails, do you REALLY think ESPN will just stroll on in and throw a 12 year deal with $500 million at our feet? No, they wont do that at all. They will make an example out of us. They will allow us and GTOWN and everyone else to wither away into obscurity without a TV deal while they look at the other conferneces and say "let that be a lesson to you"

You might be right that FOX has a good chance of being succesfull in this endeavor, but putting your head in the sand when it comes to how high the stakes are is just choosing to be ignorant.
MHettel, media empires are in business to make money. They aren't in the business of waging wars or imposing retribution. If Fox fails (and it won't -- it may not turn out to be a great deal for them, but the network will not fail in a 12-year span), ESPN will sign us in a heartbeat if there is value there. The price may go down because ESPN will have established its monopoly, but it won't be because of "revenge."

Media companies don't do business like 7 year olds. Do you think the hollywood execs like the actors, directors and agents they work with on a daily basis? Or -- better yet -- the crooked producers? Hell no. They do so because they make one another a crapload of money.

[MHettel]

MHettel, media empires are in business to make money. They aren't in the business of waging wars or imposing retribution. If Fox fails (and it won't -- it may not turn out to be a great deal for them, but the network will not fail in a 12-year span), ESPN will sign us in a heartbeat if there is value there. The price may go down because ESPN will have established its monopoly, but it won't be because of "revenge."

Media companies don't do business like 7 year olds. Do you think the hollywood execs like the actors, directors and agents they work with on a daily basis? Or -- better yet -- the crooked producers? Hell no. They do so because they make one another a crapload of money.

Extend your line of thought. Sure ESPN can make more money by signing XU, GTown and everyone to a TV deal. In isolation, they would benefit from doing that more than NOT doing it. But they would benefit the MOST by using a failed attempt by Fox to remind EVERYONE ELSE they do business with that they are the only show in town and that they set the market. Competition. Real. Basic. Stuff.

Look at the Patriots. How do they do business. They tell you what your contract will be, then you accept it or leave. If you leave they replace you. And everyone else on the teams knows those are the terms.

[MHettel]

As for the bottom feeders, of course every conference has them. It's impossible for everyone to win! But you don't actively seek out new bottom feeders. Nobody in the current Big East thought, "You know what, we should add X, BU and CU to be our three worst programs so that people from Cinci, Indi, and Omaha watch more of our basketball games." Why would you just add Richmond and SLU if you don't legitimately believe in their basketball sustainability (which maybe they do even if I don't)?

As for "bigger is better," well wasn't that the model of the old, dead Big East? The football conferences are certainly going that route, but they have/had the luxury of having plenty of big time programs programs that put football up top, lining up at their doorsteps waiting to get in. How many elite, private basketball only schools are out there lining up for us? The answer is zero. If we could get ND, great, but that's not the case. With that in mind, as soon as you start getting bigger for the sake of getting bigger, all you're really doing is adding programs that aren't as good at what you've already got.

I dont understand how Richmond and SLU are considered bottom feeders. Richmond has been anywhere from decent to pretty darn good for about 15 years. Not great, but good. SLU has also been solid on and off for some time, and very good for a couple years. SLU has first rate facilities, a solid fan base, a market with literally NO local competition, and their addition to the BE can lure a top coach who could stay in place for awhile.

Look, aside from a handful of the very elite programs, there are no guarantees when it comes to success. You have to look at the parts and determine if the success is sustainable. Using your logic, VCU wouldnt be attractive eaither right? In my mind their primary asset is their coach, who could be gone in an instant.

[MHettel]

I'm not sure you answered the question.

What do you think happens to us if Fox bails? Do you think we will never be on tv again? Is that your stance?

Just focus on that point.

My point is that we assume this is a "no lose" situation. If it all works out, it will be good as gold and a great thing for the school. I expect it to work out.

But on the other hand, I'm realisitc enough to understand that it COULD all go terribibly wrong if Fox fails and the impact of that might put us in a place that is worse than where we are today.

There is a downside. I see it. I do not think it's very likely to happen. But at least I'm not sticking my head in the sand.

[GoMuskies]

There is no downside.

[MHettel]

There is no downside.

Famous last words.

[GoMuskies]

None

[LA Muskie]

Extend your line of thought. Sure ESPN can make more money by signing XU, GTown and everyone to a TV deal. In isolation, they would benefit from doing that more than NOT doing it. But they would benefit the MOST by using a failed attempt by Fox to remind EVERYONE ELSE they do business with that they are the only show in town and that they set the market. Competition. Real. Basic. Stuff.

Look at the Patriots. How do they do business. They tell you what your contract will be, then you accept it or leave. If you leave they replace you. And everyone else on the teams knows those are the terms.
You. Are. Wrong.

[danaandvictory]

Famous last words.

You're right. Cal State-Bakersfield, NJIT, Chicago State, and the Universidad Nacional Autonomia de Mexico are far better conference mates.

At what stage, after making a comprehensive horse's ass of yourself over a period of years, do you just chuck it in?

[DC Muskie]

My point is that we assume this is a "no lose" situation. If it all works out, it will be good as gold and a great thing for the school. I expect it to work out.

But on the other hand, I'm realisitc enough to understand that it COULD all go terribibly wrong if Fox fails and the impact of that might put us in a place that is worse than where we are today.

There is a downside. I see it. I do not think it's very likely to happen. But at least I'm not sticking my head in the sand.

Okay, but you are unable to articulate what that negative impact could be. Just so we are clear, you are able to see the downside, that doesn't exist, but are incapable of telling us what that downside is...other than tell us the Patriots are able to tell Wes Welker that he has to go play for the Broncos.

Brilliant!

[SM#24]

I'm realisitc enough to understand that it COULD all go terribibly wrong if Fox fails and the impact of that might put us in a place that is worse than where we are today.

There is a downside. I see it. I do not think it's very likely to happen. But at least I'm not sticking my head in the sand.
There is nothing realistic about this.

[xudash]

My point is that we assume this is a "no lose" situation. If it all works out, it will be good as gold and a great thing for the school. I expect it to work out.

But on the other hand, I'm realisitc enough to understand that it COULD all go terribibly wrong if Fox fails and the impact of that might put us in a place that is worse than where we are today.

There is a downside. I see it. I do not think it's very likely to happen. But at least I'm not sticking my head in the sand.

Let's say you're in the room. Your sitting around a conference table where strategic planning for an organization is taking place.

Everything that has been rumored and that now has come to fruition is on the table. Xavier has accepted its invitation to join the Big East. The Big East has the 10 schools that have been announced and confirmed. Fox is in. MSG is in. All this to be driven and managed by major league players who understand brand management and marketing.

All that compared to where Xavier was in terms of positioning while being a member of the A10.

I understand the importance of assessing the downside for any given situation. I also understand the importance of keeping it in context. If you take the factual position that there is a downside, but go on to note that you don't think it will likely happen, what are you not sticking your head in the sand about?

No one around here is sticking their heads in the sand about anything. Given where we're going as compared to where we've been, nobody in their right mind is going to overly focus on a 2.5% risk versus a 97.5% reward.

[PMI]

I dont understand how Richmond and SLU are considered bottom feeders. Richmond has been anywhere from decent to pretty darn good for about 15 years. Not great, but good. SLU has also been solid on and off for some time, and very good for a couple years. SLU has first rate facilities, a solid fan base, a market with literally NO local competition, and their addition to the BE can lure a top coach who could stay in place for awhile.

Look, aside from a handful of the very elite programs, there are no guarantees when it comes to success. You have to look at the parts and determine if the success is sustainable. Using your logic, VCU wouldnt be attractive eaither right? In my mind their primary asset is their coach, who could be gone in an instant.

Dude, you've totally lost me. VCU wouldn't be attractive using my logic? I've been saying I'd like them to be added the whole time. In your mind, the coach is the primary asset, but your mind is wrong. But I've already written tons on that in other threads, so if you'd like I'll dig those up for you.

As for Richmond and SLU being considered bottom feeders, I didn't say I considered them bottom feeders, but I think there's a very realistic possibility that they would be in this league. The point is, they are by no means no-brainers. Your assessment of Richmond is generous at best. They have their flashes, but they're almost always pretty mediocre. What about their time in the A10 leads you to believe they'd be anywhere near the upper half in the Big East? Other than Seton Hall and Depaul, both of which have better chances of turning it around, who would you put Richmond above? Playing the odds, I'd say all you're adding in Richmond is a market, and the second best program in that market at that. That is not what I'd like the new league to about.

Now with SLU, you might be looking a little bit better a risk, but let's use your "primary asset" theory. Rick Majerus is dead. He was a special coach, and pretty much the only one who ever did anything with that program. Once his guys are gone, who knows where they'll be? And this is the first I'm hearing about their solid fan base. I'm sure they've been into it the past two years though. Again, they are not a no-brainer, and they're a program you'd just be adding to add, which is not what I want them to do.

It's funny to me how you see little to no risk in adding these blah programs to a league that is trying to be the premiere non-football conference on the court, yet you see some huge risk in our conference making a deal with Fox Sports that will make Xavier, what, 6-7 times more money per year than we've made in the A10? You're all backwards here. If Fox somehow totally fails, which is very unlikely, things will work themselves out as long as... what was it... the basketball programs are strong! That's it. That's what matters.

[xudash]

Fox isn't a start-up at this. Fox will be in 90 million homes right out of the gate. That compares to the primary ESPN channels being in 99 million homes, if I recall the numbers correctly.

Fox has demonstrated its ability to succeed at broadcast programming IN SPADES.

[Stephen FriarFan]

I don't think there will be any schools added next year. The powers that be are not in a rush and want to make sure nothing will be done in haste.
They will not add just a school because they feel they have to get to 12, they don't and schools are in contact that want to be added, you are better off not adding a school vs. adding the wrong school.

[Jesuit4Life]

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/new-big-east-has-major-benefits-for-xavier-butler-creighton-032013

It’s easy to be cynical about big-time college sports, but don’t be cynical here, especially if you’re a basketball fan. All this hoopla was deserved. In the midst of football-driven realignment that’s decimated college basketball’s traditional conferences and rivalries, the new version of the Big East — officially named the New Big East until July 1, when licensing restrictions will allow it to be called just the Big East — marks the first time basketball-focused schools have purchased their own bus and hopped into the driver’s seat. And their bus will head toward Madison Square Garden, where the new version of the Big East will hold its conference tournament starting next season.
That answers why they've been officially referring to it as the the New Big East.

Did anyone find video of the NYC press conference? I missed Gus.

[xudash]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130321/BLUEJAYS/703219899/1001#lannon-s-lobbying-helped-make-creighton-a-big-east-favorite-from-the-beginning

[coasterville95]

The key point is that both their president and ours built relationships and campaigned heavily. I wonder if that was a deal maker.

[BMoreX]

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=9108000&src=desktop

Lot of news in Katz' latest article.

[Xman95]

I wonder if Shaka Smart's decision to turn down opportunities at UCLA and Minnesota can be seen as an indicator that VCU has some big things in the works...such as a move to the Big East after next year. I know they have been one of the programs often debated and, obviously, what will ultimately happen remains to be seen. But I wouldn't mind seeing them make the jump...as long as it doesn't mean UD gets to come along and fill the 12th spot!

[xu95]

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I would be very surprised if VCU gets an invite.

[GoMuskies]

VCU's just going to Xavier the hell out of the A-10. Worked out pretty well for us for 15 or so years.

[Masterofreality]

It's going to be real interesting with Notre Dame if Yoda is right about the ACC disintegrating.

I can't see them in a league with SucKS again.

[Xman95]

It's going to be real interesting with Notre Dame if Yoda is right about the ACC disintegrating.

I can't see them in a league with SucKS again.

On a similar note, Notre Dame sucks.

[coasterville95]

Would that mean Notre Dame would finally be forced to go to either the SEC, B1G, or B12 AND park its football program there, or could it mean they might fine the NBE attractive. They take spot 11, and as a midwest school, thus we allow Georgetown to take Richmond the way they seem to have wanted.

Boom 12 team conference, and Dayton out in cold.

[xubrew]

VCU's just going to Xavier the hell out of the A-10. Worked out pretty well for us for 15 or so years.

If the America Twelve/Metro has Navy joining as a football only member, it seems like VCU would be a good choice as an additional member since they don't have football.

[GoMuskies]

That would make no sense for VCU IMO. In what way will the A-12 be better than the A-10? Maybe for a year until UConn leaves, but after that?

[BMoreX]

That would make no sense for VCU IMO. In what way will the A-12 be better than the A-10? Maybe for a year until UConn leaves, but after that?

I was under the impression that VCU may want to jump to that conference, but I forgot how bad (and how stretched out) that conference is. ECU, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, SMU. If I'm VCU, the slight increase in TV money probably isn't worth it.

Though I do suspect that if the America 12 want a non-football member, they'll go to the Rams first.

[xubrew]

That would make no sense for VCU IMO. In what way will the A-12 be better than the A-10? Maybe for a year until UConn leaves, but after that?

If UConn gets the chance to go anywhere, they're gone. But, if they don't get that chance....

I just thought UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple and VCU were a better nucleus of teams than what the Atlantic Ten offered. UCF, USF and Tulsa are at least NIT teams more often than not.

Now everyone else is awful. So with that model you'd have five good teams, three decent ones and four shitty ones. That seems a little better than the A10.

[Masterofreality]

Katz wrote this, and it seems that there are some quotes from new Big East AD's, but I think it's BS.

What? If Marquette wins today's game it "validates" the new league? Hell, they're already in the Elite 8. One good or bad game will determine the validity of the league? I think not. Why isn't Katz writing that the America Conglomeration of Northern Southwestern Institutions of the Midwest would be validated if Louisville wins? Oh, that's right. They're only stuck in that mess for one more year. None of the ongoing members are anywhere around, but never mind. ESPN televises them.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/82297/marquette-win-could-validate-new-big-east

[GoMuskies]

Hard to call this year's Big East overrated at this point.

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't see any move by VCU to the FB League. What would be the point? They only play BB.

[usfldan]

Katz wrote this, and it seems that there are some quotes from new Big East AD's, but I think it's BS.

What? If Marquette wins today's game it "validates" the new league? Hell, they're already in the Elite 8. One good or bad game will determine the validity of the league? I think not. Why isn't Katz writing that the America Conglomeration of Northern Southwestern Institutions of the Midwest would be validated if Louisville wins? Oh, that's right. They're only stuck in that mess for one more year. None of the ongoing members are anywhere around, but never mind. ESPN televises them.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/82297/marquette-win-could-validate-new-big-east

I actually agree with that article 100%. It’s not like the game will make or break the Real Big East either way, but in the battle for perception, it will mean a lot.

If Marquette wins, the Real Big East will start with a Final Four (or better) team. There won’t be dumb “those teams haven’t made the Final Four since 20XX” statements. Think if Marquette wins the national title- what that would do to those who want to downplay the new configuration of the Big East?

If Syracuse wins, you get another week of Boeheim whining how great the Big East WAS (especially if Louisville makes it too) and how terrible it is that it was taken from them (and of course, the idea that Syracuse and Louisville weren’t staying anyways will be quickly glossed over).

[paulxu]

What kind of game are they playing; 47-34 under 3 minutes?

[GoMuskies]

Marquette got a serious whipping. Oh, well.

[paulxu]

Zone Havoc.

[xudash]

Another week of Boehiem whining.

[Masterofreality]

Interesting stuff from the Omaha World Herald.

Big East games every night of the week? Probably.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130402/BLUEJAYS/704029892/1070#big-east-officials-set-to-meet-at-final-four

[BMoreX]

"It's kind of like in the Valley - ESPN owns our TV rights, but it chooses to sell the championship game of our tournament to CBS," Rasmussen said. "I would be shocked if you don't see Big East games on ESPN and some of the other cable entities."

Interesting. Also interesting that he mentioned a new logo. I don't really get why they would want to do that.

[MADXSTER]

Pesonally I don't really want to be part of the Old Big East. I want to be part of the New Big East. This is a new era. Bigger Basketball, Better Basketball, Badder Basketball.

[Masterofreality]

Pesonally I don't really want to be part of the Old Big East. I want to be part of the New Big East. This is a new era. Bigger Basketball, Better Basketball, Badder Basketball.

Please, not "Badder"! I've had enough of those SucKS-esque 46-44 slugfests.

[coasterville95]

Peeve of day - headline announcing Tulsa to the Big East.

Yes, technically as of 4/3/12, that is a true headline, but very misleading in that they will never play a game under the "Big East" banner. Plus, it may confuse the tourist into thinking the NBE just signed on Tulsa.

So, apparently we don't get the name until 7/1/13, which may explain why there was no merchandise available yet. New logo may be mandadated by the seperaration. I have not yet found a web presense for an official NBE website yet, though I suspect that is low down on the totem pole of things to get done at this point.

[GoMuskies]

I guess Big East women's basketball is not overrated. 75% of the women's Final Four are from the Big East. Granted, none of them will play in the Big East we're joining.

Louisville won the Sugar Bowl, is in both the men's and women's Final Fours and has accepted an invitation to the ACC. It will be kind of strange seeing that program in the America's 12 next year.

[casualfan]

I guess Big East women's basketball is not overrated. 75% of the women's Final Four are from the Big East. Granted, none of them will play in the Big East we're joining.

Louisville won the Sugar Bowl, is in both the men's and women's Final Fours and has accepted an invitation to the ACC. It will be kind of strange seeing that program in the America's 12 next year.

If that's how your judging it the Old Big East isn't too shabby either with 2 of the 4 final four teams on the men's side. Like the women's side though, neither of those teams will be in the Big East we're joining.

[DC Muskie]

Every conference seems to be overrated since there are teams in almost all conferences that did not make the Final Four.

However, despite making the Final Four, conferences can still be overrated, because during the course of the tournament, teams from any conference will lose, maybe in an upset. However said teams from conferences that beat said overrated conferences will eventually become overrated themselves, since they could lose to another or said beaten conference.

Here's some numbers if you wanted to rate the current Big East which of course has been overrated.

Pitt (-9) Even though they lost to WSU, who as we found out, should have been a 2 seed having reached the Final Four.
Syracuse (+2) with reaching the Final Four, however, by beating Indiana, it showed that Indiana was way overrated as a 1 seed, if Syrcacuse had played a proper 1 seed like the 1987 LA Lakers, they would have lost, increasing their score to an overall +16.
Marquette (-8) For demonstrating how overseeded they were by scoring only 39 points against another overseeded Syracuse team who only got a 4 seed due to the fact they play the RPI game.
Louisville (0) they won as a number 1 seed.

So adding it up, for the 12th straight year the Big East is overrated by a score of -27.

Pretty simple really.

[BMoreX]

Peeve of day - headline announcing Tulsa to the Big East.

Yes, technically as of 4/3/12, that is a true headline, but very misleading in that they will never play a game under the "Big East" banner. Plus, it may confuse the tourist into thinking the NBE just signed on Tulsa.

So, apparently we don't get the name until 7/1/13, which may explain why there was no merchandise available yet. New logo may be mandadated by the seperaration. I have not yet found a web presense for an official NBE website yet, though I suspect that is low down on the totem pole of things to get done at this point.

Or like this?

Big East MBB ‏@BigEastMBB 40m
Congratulations to @ecupiratehoops on winning the http://bit.ly/drZIDd Tournament championship last night http://bit.ly/YvTul5

They're not even joining until 2014 and they're tweeting about ECU!

[Masterofreality]

If that's how your judging it the Old Big East isn't too shabby either with 2 of the 4 final four teams on the men's side......neither of those teams will be in the Big East we're joining.

And neither of those teams will be in the American Metropolitan Conglomerate of Northern Southwest Institutions of the East that SucKS is stuck in either. They will be in the ACC either next year or 2014, sowhat's the point?

[GoMuskies]

Actually, Louisville WILL be in that Conglomerate...for a year.

[xudash]

A definition of Grand Slam:

1. The Big East becomes a highly successful basketball-centric conference, elevating its brand and the brands of each of its members, as well as continuing to flood each member school with gobs of money.

2. Xavier becomes a/the flagship of this group, making Final Fours and winning a NC or three along the way.

3. Dayton continues to rack up .500 conference season marks in the remodeled A10, while it otherwise witnesses its home attendance plummeting to under 8k with part of the reason being that Valpo becomes its top OOC home game; in other words, the '60's never looked so good.

4. UC stays put in the Yet To Be Named Conglomerate, with Mick Cronin signing on for on ironclad 10 years, which he personally enjoys, since there are no fans in the seats to yell at him directly; UC football otherwise enjoys going to post-season bowls in Mississippi and Idaho after winning their conference championship by taking out Tulane in an end-of-season thriller in front of 18,500 at Nippert.

[Masterofreality]

Actually, Louisville WILL be in that Conglomerate...for a year.

Depends if the Maryland buyout is ruled valid. But I said, either next year or 2014. In any event, no longer than 1 year for either.

[El Shaqtus]

I don't think SLU is in "jilted lover mode" as much as "we realize how Biondi can *bleep* it up".

Probably the most interesting thing I saw recently involves Xavier. Fr. Graham was in San Jose (where the Billikens were playing). At the same time, Father Biondi was in Asia.

That is all.

BTW, go win a Big East title next year!

[coasterville95]

Hey, there may have been some important missionary work in Asia!

Would have been much more hopeful if both presidents were seen together. Then maybe we could say outreach had begun.

[paulxu]

Actually, Louisville WILL be in that Conglomerate...for a year.

You should dominate the whatever the hell it is conference next year.

The real question is, will you ever play a game in the ACC?

[BMoreX]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130409/BLUEJAYS/704099842/1001#big-east-athletic-directors-have-much-work-remaining

[bobbiemcgee]

So, apparently we don't get the name until 7/1/13, which may explain why there was no merchandise available yet. New logo may be mandadated by the seperaration. I have not yet found a web presense for an official NBE website yet, though I suspect that is low down on the totem pole of things to get done at this point.

Here's a t-shirt if you just can't wait any longer:


http://www.homage.com/store/tees-tops/t-shirts/sports/basketball/big-east?gclid=CJSr7vKuwLYCFQM6nAodzjwARA

[BMoreX]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/202758081.html

[Masterofreality]

Interesting info as to how Fox plans to make money on the new network.

http://www.whatyoupayforsports.com/2013/04/the-fox-sports-1-plan/

[xudash]

Palace intrigue: naming a commish and the games some people may be playing:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=425&f=1323&t=11457646

[paulxu]

Is this the same guy who said Dayton would be in the BE this season?

[xudash]

Is this the same guy who said Dayton would be in the BE this season?

It's a thread on the Providence board. Found it interesting. We are new to this deal and this perspective.

[paulxu]

Cage match: Boise State vs. AAC(k)

http://www.670kboi.com/common/page.php?pt=BSU+counters+Big+East+lawsuit&id=3673&is_corp=0

[coasterville95]

That should be interesting:

I hope they aren't planning on using a "They don't offer football" defense as to why they shoulnd't have to pay the exit fee. The article seems to get the two conferences confused. Yes, it is true that starting next year, the Big East will no longer offer football, however the Big East they joined, the one to be renamed AAC - does offer football, and BSU is welcome to play football in that league.

Now, BSU does have a point that the makeup of the Big East/AAC/Whatever is different from when they signed on. Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Lousiville were all moving on regardless of the Big East split. Some of those may have already been known when BSU signed up, as I beleive they were brought in to stop the bleeding, or to shore up the conference.

Sounds like a case of buyer's remorse. Justifiable buyer's remorse to be sure. When they realized that any programs with strong football tradition they thought they would be playing are gone. Take that and the added travel expenses. It never was a great deal for them, but now its just even worse to be stuck with UConn/South Florida/Cincinnati/Temple/ and a host of C-USA misfits. And with U-Conn, and Cincinnati having publicly stated they would take the first train to the ACC. No long term commitment there.

[Masterofreality]

Interesting article in the Omaha World Herald with a number of Chris Mack quotes.

Getting the feeling that Omaha may be the best source for news. Creighton rules there.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130420/BLUEJAYS/704209780/1685#the-boulevard-of-new-big-east-battles

[rove02]

Just saw a Fox Sports 1 commercial for the first time. It was on Fox Soccer Channel today during the Champions League game and it was a very short commercial involving Cristiano Ronaldo and then saying Fox Sports 1 coming August 17. Anyone else seen any?

[bobbiemcgee]

Mc Dermott to announce soon:

https://twitter.com/bluejaybanter

[blueblob06]

Goodman just tweeted that McDermott is returning for Senior season.

[xubrew]

Cage match: Boise State vs. AAC(k)

http://www.670kboi.com/common/page.php?pt=BSU+counters+Big+East+lawsuit&id=3673&is_corp=0

The Big East, the conference that Xavier is now in, needs to release a statement claiming they do not intend to charge Boise State any sort of an exit fee for not joining.

Do it!! Please, do it!!

[xubrew]

Seton Hall AD claming that the league will go out to twelve (first quesiton and answer).

Can we just stay at ten, and get rid of Seton Hall when we do add teams??

http://www.southorangejuice.com/2013/4/25/4266172/a-conversation-with-seton-hall-athletic-director-pat-lyons-q-a

[paulxu]

I wonder if that's in advance of an announcement before June 30th for the 2014-15 season?
Hard to have H/H's with 12 teams...22 game in-conference schedule?

I'm still pulling for St Louis and Richmond if they go to 12.
Richmond is putting a few million into upgrading the Robins Center.

[xudash]

Seton Hall AD claming that the league will go out to twelve (first quesiton and answer).

Can we just stay at ten, and get rid of Seton Hall when we do add teams??

http://www.southorangejuice.com/2013/4/25/4266172/a-conversation-with-seton-hall-athletic-director-pat-lyons-q-a

Damn.

I'm with Paul: if it has to go to 12, let it be SLU (some Creighton geographic balance and SL market) and Richmond (conference balance 6e/6w).

[XUFan09]

I'm rooting for Richmond (or the long shot and poor fit, VCU), as I will be living in Richmond for at least the next three years, if not longer. Purely selfish motivation, I know.

[Muskie in NY]

As the Big East schools continue to generate more revenue I see the distance of Gonzaga becoming less of an issue.

[bobbiemcgee]

Commiss this week:

http://playforthegarden.com/2013/04/29/new-big-east-commissioner-to-be-named-this-week/

[xubrew]

John O'Conner is reporting that Richmond and SLU are the two leading candidates to join the Big East.

That would mean a lot more to me if I had any idea who John O'Connor was.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/college/richmond/spiders-may-find-new-port-if-big-east-grows/article_9559d215-56e4-543f-a541-7ba6cdf6db98.html

[XUdenver]

John O'Conner is reporting that Richmond and SLU are the two leading candidates to join the Big East.

That would mean a lot more to me if I had any idea who John O'Connor was.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/college/richmond/spiders-may-find-new-port-if-big-east-grows/article_9559d215-56e4-543f-a541-7ba6cdf6db98.html


That's not what the article said. There is a big difference between " is expected to be a strong candidate.." and IS the LEADING candidate, as you reported.

[xubrew]

That's not what the article said. There is a big difference between " is expected to be a strong candidate.." and IS the LEADING candidate, as you reported.

So noted.

[El Shaqtus]

I missed the O and thought we had a message from the Terminator.

[paulxu]

I think that guy is looking at other sports...and he's right that adding Richmond would give the league 6 lacrosse schools, and adding St Louis would give it 6 swimming/diving teams. Other candidates (Dayton and VCU) don't bring those additions.

[xu95]

With everything I have read lately, I am starting to think that Richmond is team 11 and St. Louis and Dayton playing for #12, with St. Louis having a rather large advantage right now.

[Muskie]

I feel that same sort of momentum from all I'm seeing as well.

[xubrew]

With everything I have read lately, I am starting to think that Richmond is team 11 and St. Louis and Dayton playing for #12, with St. Louis having a rather large advantage right now.

Marquette got their team. If what you say is true, and I think that it is, it looks like Georgetown will get their team.

If nothing else, at least we know who is running the show....

[xubrew]

I still like VCU. I like them more than Richmond, SLU, Dayton or Creighton. I would be fine having both Richmond and VCU in. When it comes to nationally televised OOC games, VCU is by far the best brand name and most intriguing team out there. They're also the best team. They've also sustained it for a longer period of time than anyone else.

Having said that, I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons Georgetown wants Richmond in so badly is to assure that VCU will not get in. A program with as much potential as VCU may be deemed as a regional threat to Georgetown. That's entirely speculation on my part, but seriously....why Richmond?? A Baptist university that is mediocre most of the time. I don't see the appeal, nor do I see the political connection.

[Masterofreality]

Screw VCU.

Screw udump.

[DC Muskie]

Having said that, I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons Georgetown wants Richmond in so badly is to assure that VCU will not get in.

This might sound silly, but I truly believe if GTown wants Richmond in is because of academics and lacrosse. Lacrosse only continues to grow and draws wealthy potential students.

Also, Richmond was founded Baptist but is no longer baptist.

[paulxu]

. That's entirely speculation on my part, but seriously....why Richmond?? A Baptist university that is mediocre most of the time. I don't see the appeal, nor do I see the political connection.

Small, PRIVATE institution with no aspirations of FBS football, ginormous endowment, just dropped soccer for lacrosse because wealthy donor funded, great academics, updated (this year) basketball arena, new state market as opposed to one already covered, fits footprint for another eastern team, helps non-revenue travel budgets...and has one of the best small campuses in the country.

(Disclaimer: one daughter is a UR graduate)

[PMI]

Having said that, I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons Georgetown wants Richmond in so badly is to assure that VCU will not get in. A program with as much potential as VCU may be deemed as a regional threat to Georgetown. That's entirely speculation on my part, but seriously....why Richmond?? A Baptist university that is mediocre most of the time. I don't see the appeal, nor do I see the political connection.

Your speculation is wise, Mr. Brew. I can tell you with high confidence that the Georgetown program is not crazy about VCU getting in because they (unlike some on this board) realize the threat they pose regionally. My sources, for what it's worth, are within both the the programs.

[xubrew]

I did not realize Richmond was no longer Baptist. I learned something today.


This might sound silly, but I truly believe if GTown wants Richmond in is because of academics and lacrosse. Lacrosse only continues to grow and draws wealthy potential students.

Also, Richmond was founded Baptist but is no longer baptist.

HA!!!!

RIDICULOUS!!! UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!!

In all seriousness, you may be on to something. Generally when one school pushes for the inclusion of another, there is some sort of relationship or connecting. The Marquette - Creighton connection was obvious. I just don't know what it is with Georgetown and Richmond, or even if there is one. Of all the schools to push for Richmond just seemed kind of random. Do they regularly play in Lacrosse?? Are there Georgetown administrators/board members that are Richmond alums, or vice versa??

I just can't help but think there has to be something to it other than Georgetown deciding out of the blue that Richmond would be a good fit.

[DC Muskie]

Also, Marist was founded as a Marianist school like Dayton, and once they figured out that the only other Marianist was Dayton, Marist stopped being Marianist.

[Masterofreality]

I did not realize Richmond was no longer Baptist. I learned something today.



HA!!!!

RIDICULOUS!!! UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!!

In all seriousness, you may be on to something. Generally when one school pushes for the inclusion of another, there is some sort of relationship or connecting. The Marquette - Creighton connection was obvious. I just don't know what it is with Georgetown and Richmond, or even if there is one. Of all the schools to push for Richmond just seemed kind of random. Do they regularly play in Lacrosse?? Are there Georgetown administrators/board members that are Richmond alums, or vice versa??

I just can't help but think there has to be something to it other than Georgetown deciding out of the blue that Richmond would be a good fit.

Richmond and GTown also play each other in football at the FCS level.,

[DoubleD86]

I did not realize Richmond was no longer Baptist. I learned something today.



HA!!!!

RIDICULOUS!!! UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!!

In all seriousness, you may be on to something. Generally when one school pushes for the inclusion of another, there is some sort of relationship or connecting. The Marquette - Creighton connection was obvious. I just don't know what it is with Georgetown and Richmond, or even if there is one. Of all the schools to push for Richmond just seemed kind of random. Do they regularly play in Lacrosse?? Are there Georgetown administrators/board members that are Richmond alums, or vice versa??

I just can't help but think there has to be something to it other than Georgetown deciding out of the blue that Richmond would be a good fit.

I can't remember where I read it, and if it is from a pay source feel free to delete this, but I read one theory that GTown wants access into the Virginia market and recruiting grounds, but sees Richmond as less of a threat than VCU. Then you add in the fact that Richmond is a closer institutional fit to the rest of the conference and is private so books can remain closed, it makes some sense.

[xubrew]

Richmond and GTown also play each other in football at the FCS level.,

Richmond is typically a playoff team, and Georgetown is typically a winless team. I can't imagine that is ever a good game.

[Masterofreality]

Richmond is typically a playoff team, and Georgetown is typically a winless team. I can't imagine that is ever a good game.

Not saying it is, just an established relationship.

BTW. Looks like the WCC Commish is the front runner for Big East Commish.

http://ajerseyguy.com/

[xubrew]

Not saying it is, just an established relationship.

BTW. Looks like the WCC Commish is the front runner for Big East Commish.

http://ajerseyguy.com/

Oh I understood you. I was just pointing that out.

[SixFig]

Presented to you without commentary:

John Cahill to supervise officials in ‘new’ Big East

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/john-cahill-to-supervise-officials-in-new-big-east/

[coasterville95]

Cahill as head of officials? Can we still get back in the A10?

You know that memo about T'ing up Sean Miller, there will be a new one - anybody who can do anything to screw with Xavier gets a bonus!!

[paulxu]

My initial reaction to this headline (after suffering OSU flashback attack) was a bout of nausea.

Then I realized....GREAT NEWS!!! He'll never, ever be on the floor again with the Muskies to completely screw us over.

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

[paulxu]

Building the BE brand:


One key production signing by Fox Sports 1 -- and this transaction has caused a little bad blood between Fox Sports and the NFL Network -- is Fox's hiring of former NFL Network producer Bardia Shah-Rais. One ESPN-er who worked with Shah-Rais called him "the best hire Fox Sports 1 has made so far." Shah-Rais is expected to play a major role in the production Fox Sports 1's Big East package. "He's phenomenal, and that's an understatement," said one NFL Network staffer. "It's a huge loss for us."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130505/media-circus-fox-sports-1-charissa-thompson-ryan-clark/#ixzz2SWIQ9YR6

[xudash]

Building the BE brand:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130505/media-circus-fox-sports-1-charissa-thompson-ryan-clark/#ixzz2SWIQ9YR6

BOOM!

Now this is the kind of news we need to read about when it comes to helping to understand how this thing is going to be positioned for success.

BTW, if the guy is that solid, he would know what is and what is not a good property, in terms of attaching himself career wise. He would never have made the move without believing in the brand value of the Big East.

I just love reading stuff like this. Thanks Paul.

[xubrew]

NFL Network doesn't show that many live events, so the move is probably a step up.

[xudash]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22230661/report-depaul-to-receive-300-million-arena-in-chicago

Any poor jealous bastard who roots for a program that wanted into this league, but didn't make it into this league - I'm thinking Dayton mainly - just doesn't get how successful this puppy is going to be.

[JTG]

If I was a tax payer in Chicago I would be furious DePaul was getting $100 mil from the city. Hell, if I was any of the other schools in the area I would be pissed. In true Democrat style , failure is rewarded with a tax windfall.

[GoMuskies]

What a joke that deal is.

[paulxu]

That's an interesting size for an arena. Most big ones that seek to attract entertainment acts seem to be bigger.

Can they put it close enough to campus to get students easy access?

Edit: didn't notice original article said near McCormick. That is not near the campus at all.

[Pluto]

This is a public/private deal where both sides make out. They are trying to develop the area around McCormick (convention center) and will be adding a couple hotels and the arena will add additional convention space for their large events.

[ChicagoX]

This arena would be about six miles from campus, so DePaul certainly isn't doing their students any favors by building it in this location. It's easier to get to compared to Rosemont, but even by taking the Red Line (which runs right by DePaul's campus), it's still a pretty decent hike to get to McCormick.

It's too bad they couldn't find a way to build on the A. Finkl & Sons steel mill site which is closing down, because that is walking distance from campus. I think the cost of not only the land but also environmental clean-up proved to be too pricey.

At least the program is trying to do something to upgrade their facilities and finally have their own building in the city of Chicago.

[Mrs. Garrett]

This is typical DePaul using someone else to foot the bill for a stadium. How do you think they wound up in Rosemont in the first place. Yes this is a better location than the Allstate Arena, but it is still pretty far from the Lincoln Park Campus and not easily accessible by public transportation.

I believe the Finkle & Sons location was ideal and I believe Finkle would have been on the hook for the clean up given it is required for any type of development at that site. Although this site would likely face opposition from the neighborhood.

DePaul didn't think forward back in the 70's and early 80's Lincoln Park was a crap hole and they could of had any property they wanted for cheap, but they just sat on their butts and watched the property appreciate to the point that it is too expensive to purchase anymore.

[Mrs. Garrett]

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130513/BLOGS02/130519946/depaul-mcpier-move-closer-to-basketball-deal

This article is more accurate than the post above. Currently, there is no funding, it is all speculation and a dream from the mayor to develop this area. At this point I wouldn't expect DePaul to be playing basketball in their "own" arena anytime before 2018.

[DC Muskie]

It's too bad they couldn't find a way to build on the A. Finkl & Sons steel mill site which is closing down, because that is walking distance from campus. I think the cost of not only the land but also environmental clean-up proved to be too pricey.

They are building an arena for $300 million. How much do you think it would have cost to build it closer to campus, like $4 billion?

$300 MILLION for a 12,000 seat arena. My God.

[xudash]

They are building an arena for $300 million. How much do you think it would have cost to build it closer to campus, like $4 billion?

$300 MILLION for a 12,000 seat arena. My God.

I think it's referred to as Chicago Politics.

[ChicagoX]

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130513/BLOGS02/130519946/depaul-mcpier-move-closer-to-basketball-deal

This article is more accurate than the post above. Currently, there is no funding, it is all speculation and a dream from the mayor to develop this area. At this point I wouldn't expect DePaul to be playing basketball in their "own" arena anytime before 2018.

DePaul should have taken the United Center's offer to play for FREE for the next ten years or even tried to negotiate it down to 7-8 years. They wouldn't have come close to filling the arena, but it would have brought the team back to Chicago, closer to campus and in a much nicer facility than Allstate Arena. It certainly wouldn't have hurt recruiting with the upgrade.

It also would have given the university plenty of time to get their ducks in a row and figure out the best option for building their own arena. It seems like they are looking for a quick fix, and that just isn't going to happen.

[ChicagoX]

They are building an arena for $300 million. How much do you think it would have cost to build it closer to campus, like $4 billion?

$300 MILLION for a 12,000 seat arena. My God.

I don't think there is any doubt that this is an incredibly inflated price. I would guess that it would be more than just an arena in order to increase the convention business at McCormick. Regardless, I know I don't want my taxpayer dollars going toward this, but I'm sure the Chicago Democrats will find a way to force yet another tax down our throat. It will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

I'm still of the mentality that an improved DePaul provides a tremendous value to the Big East. They have been the doormat of the league for quite some time now and if they can become even just a top 100 team, the league improves quite a bit. Building a new arena is one way to take a step in the right direction, but if it's miles from campus I'm not sure if it accomplishes that goal.

[DC Muskie]

I don't think there is any doubt that this is an incredibly inflated price. I would guess that it would be more than just an arena in order to increase the convention business at McCormick. Regardless, I know I don't want my taxpayer dollars going toward this, but I'm sure the Chicago Democrats will find a way to force yet another tax down our throat. It will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

I'm still of the mentality that an improved DePaul provides a tremendous value to the Big East. They have been the doormat of the league for quite some time now and if they can become even just a top 100 team, the league improves quite a bit. Building a new arena is one way to take a step in the right direction, but if it's miles from campus I'm not sure if it accomplishes that goal.

Agreed. Is the site really that far away? Can you take the train and then walk a few blocks?

[ChicagoX]

Agreed. Is the site really that far away? Can you take the train and then walk a few blocks?

Just for the hell of it, I did a quick search on Google Maps to see how long it would take to get from campus to McCormick via public transit. By taking the Red Line from Fullerton to Roosevelt and then walking a couple blocks and hopping on a CTA bus, it is exactly one hour to get from point A to point B. There is no quick and easy way to get there via public transit. Soldier Field is just north of McCormick and it's a 25 minute walk from the Roosevelt Red Line Stop to get to the stadium.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I'm not sure that the $300 million is for the stadium only as there are reports to build at least two hotels on the same property. Some are also speculating a casino at that site if the state would approve a Chicago casino.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Just for the hell of it, I did a quick search on Google Maps to see how long it would take to get from campus to McCormick via public transit. By taking the Red Line from Fullerton to Roosevelt and then walking a couple blocks and hopping on a CTA bus, it is exactly one hour to get from point A to point B. There is no quick and easy way to get there via public transit. Soldier Field is just north of McCormick and it's a 25 minute walk from the Roosevelt Red Line Stop to get to the stadium.

It's a hike from the Red Line. I've done it when I ran the marathon and had to pick up my packet at McCormick place. I do believe an extension of the Red Line to McCormick has been discussed in the past as a way to draw more convention business to the city. Which in the end is what this development is all about, not about DePaul basketball for all of you who have you panties in a bunch over the possible deal.

[waggy]

Yeah DePaul is just a throw-in as a possible consistent tenant and financial stakeholder.

[DC Muskie]

Which in the end is what this development is all about, not about DePaul basketball for all of you who have you panties in a bunch over the possible deal.

Just going by what we read from the sports section there Mrs. Garrett.

[paulxu]

Interesting reading the critiques of the BE set up situations.
Understand Jerseyguy is a little out there, but now Katz is hammering the same thing:

Lack of commissioner setting everything back and failure (supposedly) of presidents to keep AD's in the loop and use their expertise.

Also this guy: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sbnation/villanova/SBNation_20130514_The_Big_East_still_searching_for _a_commissioner_as_time_begins_to_run_out.html

Wonder what really is happening? I remember they set up working groups to deal with various issues, but it does seem to be taking a while to get a commissioner.
Natural by-product of "private" schools working together is that stuff stays private.

[GoMuskies]

Sounds like the whole thing's a messy disaster so far. Seems the Xavier folks should be able to help. Disaster was the natural state of the A-10.

[waggy]

They brought in Beebe for the transition. I'm not surprised they haven't hired anyone yet. I haven't ever heard of any of the names throw around so far. Not a big deal I guess. I think they should hire someone of Italian descent. But absolutely no gay persons.

[LA Muskie]

Sounds like the whole thing's a messy disaster so far. Seems the Xavier folks should be able to help. Disaster was the natural state of the A-10.
Meh. It's going to be chaotic for the fall sports (and as a soccer fan that's disappointing) but we all know that this conference isn't about anything but basketball. And I assure you things will be solved as necessary for that purpose.

[LA Muskie]

They brought in Beebe for the transition. I'm not surprised they haven't hired anyone yet. I haven't ever heard of any of the names throw around so far. Not a big deal I guess. I think they should hire someone of Italian descent. But absolutely no gay persons.
They've got their TV deal in hand. Seems to me they now need an operations person. Given that this is a basketball-centric conference, the ACC basketball lieutenant seemingly would be a perfect fit. Who is he/she?

[waggy]

I have no idea what this about.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/13144805/164146346.0_standard_400.0.jpg

[waggy]

They've got their TV deal in hand. Seems to me they now need an operations person. Given that this is a basketball-centric conference, the ACC basketball lieutenant seemingly would be a perfect fit. Who is he/she?

No idea, but that sounds like as good idea as any.

[XU '11]

Interesting reading the critiques of the BE set up situations.
Understand Jerseyguy is a little out there, but now Katz is hammering the same thing:

Lack of commissioner setting everything back and failure (supposedly) of presidents to keep AD's in the loop and use their expertise.

Also this guy: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sbnation/villanova/SBNation_20130514_The_Big_East_still_searching_for _a_commissioner_as_time_begins_to_run_out.html

Wonder what really is happening? I remember they set up working groups to deal with various issues, but it does seem to be taking a while to get a commissioner.
Natural by-product of "private" schools working together is that stuff stays private.


That article blows things way out of proportion. Do you really think a commissioner has anything to do with making a schedule? Every fall sports has had several conference calls with coaches and an AD has been assigned to each sport. Most sports are just using last year's Big East bylaws for this fall with the intention of starting from scratch after the season is over. The commissioner is the face of the conference and important for conference negotiations with media partners and settling in-conference bickering. The media deal is done and people don't know each other well enough for there to be any sort of bickering yet. Nothing to worry about here.

In fact, I appreciate that they're taking their time with things. The old Big East repeatedly made quick decisions to put a band-aid over their wounds (adding Tulane anybody?) rather than taking their time to evaluate what's best in the long term. Hopefully this commissioner is around for a long time so the presidents SHOULD be taking their time.

[Cheesehead]

Is Linda Bruno available?

Wouldn't it be great if Bobo fired Brian Gregory and then got hired at the new Big East Commish?

[blobfan]

They brought in Beebe for the transition. I'm not surprised they haven't hired anyone yet. I haven't ever heard of any of the names throw around so far. Not a big deal I guess. I think they should hire someone of Italian descent. But absolutely no gay persons.

Not always easy to tell the difference. Are you volunteering to test the waters? Want to make sure your choice to be a hetero sinner is still the best way to go?

[muskiefan82]

Is Linda Bruno available?

Wouldn't it be great if Bobo fired Brian Gregory and then got hired at the new Big East Commish?

Yes.

[BMoreX]

@GoodmanCBS: Makes sense. Elite league @McMurphyESPN: Momentum gaining for ACC to hold future hoops tourneys at Madison Square Garden, sources told @ESPN

[sweet16]

Not always easy to tell the difference. Are you volunteering to test the waters? Want to make sure your choice to be a hetero sinner is still the best way to go?

Italian and gay are mutually exclusive.

[paulxu]

Am surprised no commissioner named from meetings.
Maybe Cahill can do a better job of managing the referees than he did managing games.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/college/content/20130521-college-hoops-journal-big-east-moving-ahead.ece

[Masterofreality]

Am surprised no commissioner named from meetings.
Maybe Cahill can do a better job of managing the referees than he did managing games.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/college/content/20130521-college-hoops-journal-big-east-moving-ahead.ece

At least this takes him off the court!

[blobfan]

Italian and gay are mutually exclusive.

So you are saying you've already done the testing?

[paulxu]

Xavier in the Cotton Bowl next year? Who knew.


The American Conference also is working on a deal in football to create a bowl game, possibly against a Pac-12 team and perhaps in the state of Texas, which will become the western outpost for the American with Tulsa, Houston and SMU all part of what will eventually be a 12-team, two division football league. Pac 12 No. 7 vs. Big East No. 4 in the Cotton Bowl?

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=6901

[El Shaqtus]

Xavier in the Cotton Bowl next year? Who knew.



http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=6901

Musketeer football? Catch the fever!

[xudash]

http://http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/mecca_may_get_mightier_VOaGJmvdo42zMeuSlgBwnI

[SM#24]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/mecca_may_get_mightier_VOaGJmvdo42zMeuSlgBwnI

[xudash]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/mecca_may_get_mightier_VOaGJmvdo42zMeuSlgBwnI

Thanks. Operator error with the iPad.

[XU '11]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/mecca_may_get_mightier_VOaGJmvdo42zMeuSlgBwnI

Interesting. The talking heads always comment about how an early exit from the conference tourney can be a good thing to get some extra rest for the team. A Saturday-Tuesday tournament might actually make some sense. Your first round and quarterfinal games are now played on the weekend, which is much more conducive to the afternoon start times. It would be interesting to see what coaches would think about a potential 12-day layoff between a first round ACC tournament exit and then opening the NCAA tournament on Friday.

[GoMuskies]

I think a lot of ACC teams would schedule a game for that following Saturday in an effort to keep themselves sharp. Some of those low majors who have their conference tournaments the prior weekend would surely be happy to take a payday in mid-March instead of November/December.

[paulxu]

Only if the new Big East loses enough key members to make the league no longer is viable can the Garden terminate the contract

I'm trying to imagine what key members of the Big East might leave, why would they leave, and where the hell would they go?
Drawing a blank.
Maybe there is Muskie football on the horizon and we'll join the B1G.

[paulxu]

Rounding out lacrosse to have a necessary conference total for next year.
(Lots of travel dollars involved there I guess)

http://www.laxpower.com/laxnews/news.php?story=35675

Actually, since Rutgers (!) is in the conference for one more year, they really didn't need Denver to get to 6.

[bobbiemcgee]

Some idiots just can't seem to figure this out:

http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2013/05/commissioner_mike_aresco_said.html

[GoMuskies]

What is it they can't figure out?

[RealDeal]

Some idiots just can't seem to figure this out:

http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2013/05/commissioner_mike_aresco_said.html

Wow, idiot is an understatement.

[LA Muskie]

Some idiots just can't seem to figure this out:

http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2013/05/commissioner_mike_aresco_said.html
Figure what out? What do you expect the guy to say?

[bobbiemcgee]

Figure what out? What do you expect the guy to say?

Maybe the reporter might figure out he is no longer the Big East Commissioner? Read the headline and the pic.

[STL_XUfan]

Maybe the reporter might figure out he is no longer the Big East Commissioner? Read the headline and the pic.
In his defense...isn't he the big east commissioner until July 1 (or is it 31)?

[GoMuskies]

He's the Big East commissioner for 30 more days.

[bobbiemcgee]

He's commissioner of the AAC,. I doubt the BE is still writing him a check to work for the AAC.

[GoMuskies]

The AAC doesn't exist yet.

[paulxu]

Whatever. The tone of that interview was about the same as an interview with YTG. Petulant.

[Masterofreality]

DePuke is full of sheet.

Can't see how a new arena is approved for them...in any way.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130529/BLOGS04/130529794?template=mobile

[bobbiemcgee]

The AAC doesn't exist yet.


They have offices, a commissioner, a staff of 40 and a new logo which they took around to all the schools for comments so they're doing a good amount of work in their phantom existence.

[LA Muskie]

I will be glad when the offseason is over so we can stop arguing about the slight of semantics and argue about basketball instead.

[Muskie]

I will be glad when the offseason is over so we can stop arguing about the slight of semantics and argue about basketball instead.

Amen.

[XULucho27]

DePuke is full of sheet.

Can't see how a new arena is approved for them...in any way.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130529/BLOGS04/130529794?template=mobile

It's Chicago. Palms will be greased. Aldermen and their egos will be appeased. Taxpayers in Cook County will foot the bill for a terrible investment... Again.

"Life, uh... finds a way."

[GoMuskies]

They have offices, a commissioner, a staff of 40 and a new logo which they took around to all the schools for comments so they're doing a good amount of work in their phantom existence.

Go to bigeast.org, "The Official Website of the Big East" if you need confirmation of what league Aresco currently heads.

Damn the New Orleans paper and their accurate reporting!

[bobbiemcgee]

Woohoo. The AAC has a website too. Guess he is doing both jobs. lol. Anyway, got an email from the reporter agreeing that it is confusing to the general public and they have had calls and emails. The Big East is still the Big East but the BEcommissioner works for the AAC. Nevermind.

[LA Muskie]

Woohoo. The AAC has a website too. Guess he is doing both jobs. lol. Anyway, got an email from the reporter agreeing that it is confusing to the general public and they have had calls and emails. The Big East is still the Big East but the BEcommissioner works for the AAC. Nevermind.

It is confusing. But I can't believe your panties were in such a bunch that you felt compelled to email the reporter.

To be clear, the AAC is technically the former Big East via name change. The new Big East is a brand new conference. Silly, I know. Damn lawyers...

[paulxu]

So you're saying went Tulane beats UC, I'm going to have to listen to some crap from Mick about how Tulane could win the Big East?

[bobbiemcgee]

Geez, I'll check with you next time I disagree with a reporter. Ban editorials, public opinion and feedback as well. Oddly, the newspapers seem to appreciate it.

[paulxu]

It is so strange to go to the ESPN blog for the BE and see discussions about Houston, Cincinnati, etc.
Wonder what they'll do on July 1st.

[SixFig]

I hope they vet the new Big East president better than Rutgers does its employees.

[xudash]

I hope they vet the new Big East president better than Rutgers does its employees.

No worries there. The issue is setting a much higher bar for due diligence than what Rutgers does for anything, eventually getting to the right person for the commish job.

Isn't this job first and foremost about two things: television contract ($$$) management; and NCAA connections (a place at the table, where and when it matters)?

So they don't want a Tagliabue; an all-powerful overseer of the conference. They want a trainable lapdog, if I understand the tea leaves correctly. That's fine, so long as the person knows television and has a deep enough Rolodex within the NCAA.

I now think it's odd that it has taken this long, but I can only hope they have their good reasons.

What I really am anxious to learn is how the money will be split up annually (for television): will there be a buy-in phase for full membership for Xavier that is reasonable, will it be equal out of the gate (doubtful) or will the C7 be hogs and really screw the thing up.

We finally get to Utopia, expecting steaks every night, only to find a bag of White Castles waiting for us for some amount of time.

In case you can't tell, I've been reading Positive Thinking by Gladden Guy.

[paulxu]

I miss White Castles. We almost had a Krystal open up here, but they bailed.
Growing up in Chattanooga (home of Krystal) it was good to have Le Blanc Castile at X.

(fun fact: first White Castle was in Wichita)

[paulxu]

Mario Mercurio ‏@MarioMercurio 20h
Can't begin to explain the impact @FoxSports1 will have on our program. The #BIGEAST will be second to none in terms of exposure and reach.

[casualfan]

Mario Mercurio ‏@MarioMercurio 20h
Can't begin to explain the impact @FoxSports1 will have on our program. The #BIGEAST will be second to none in terms of exposure and reach.

I hope he is right.

[ballyhoohoo]

I miss White Castles. We almost had a Krystal open up here, but they bailed.
Growing up in Chattanooga (home of Krystal) it was good to have Le Blanc Castile at X.

(fun fact: first White Castle was in Wichita)

Weren't the holes first put in the meat in cincy?

[SixFig]

Weren't the holes first put in the meat in cincy?

Trivia Fact: First holes in watermelons were in Dayton

[MADXSTER]

Isn't this job first and foremost about two things: television contract ($$$) management; and NCAA connections (a place at the table, where and when it matters)?

Sounds like Mike Bobinski to me.

TV contracts - check. Did a better job for Xavier when it came to TV contracts than the rest of the A10. NCAA connections - check. Was sitting at the table for the NCAA selection committee.

[DC Muskie]

Georgetown released their soccer schedule. The Hoyas come to Xavier on October 12th. The tournament will be held in Philly at Union stadium, which is pretty nice, even though it's in Philly.

[xubrew]

They have offices, a commissioner, a staff of 40 and a new logo which they took around to all the schools for comments so they're doing a good amount of work in their phantom existence.

It's well within the third trimester, but as far as the NCAA is concerned the conference will not exist until July 1st.



It is confusing. But I can't believe your panties were in such a bunch that you felt compelled to email the reporter.

To be clear, the AAC is technically the former Big East via name change. The new Big East is a brand new conference. Silly, I know. Damn lawyers...

You sure about that??

Were the Baltimore Ravens technically an expansion franchise, or are they still considered to be the same franchise as the old Jim Brown Cleveland Browns??

Look, this is important stuff. We've got to figure this out. Is the AAC technically the new conference with the old Big East teams, or is the New Big East the new conference, or is the New Big East still the Old Big East???

It's the offseason. We've got to figure this out!!!!!

[PMI]

It is confusing. But I can't believe your panties were in such a bunch that you felt compelled to email the reporter.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you calling bobbiemcgee a cross-dresser? Moreover, are you saying there's anything wrong with cross-dressers? Please choose expressions that don't contain such slurs next time.

[LA Muskie]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you calling bobbiemcgee a cross-dresser? Moreover, are you saying there's anything wrong with cross-dressers? Please choose expressions that don't contain such slurs next time.
Last I checked, this wasn't a press conference for my employer. Although since I am my employer, even then I'd be free to do it if I wanted. Context, my man. Context.

[LA Muskie]

You sure about that??

Were the Baltimore Ravens technically an expansion franchise, or are they still considered to be the same franchise as the old Jim Brown Cleveland Browns??

Look, this is important stuff. We've got to figure this out. Is the AAC technically the new conference with the old Big East teams, or is the New Big East the new conference, or is the New Big East still the Old Big East???

It's the offseason. We've got to figure this out!!!!!
Yes. I am 100% positive. As far as the NCAA (and the conferences themselves) are concerned, the Big East is now the American Athletic Conference. But simultaneous with that name change the NCAA sanctioned a brand new conference known -- admittedly confusingly -- as the Big East.

Between the NCAA and lawyers, these are the types of absurdities you end up with...

[PMI]

Last I checked, this wasn't a press conference for my employer. Although since I am my employer, even then I'd be free to do it if I wanted. Context, my man. Context.

Hey, I'm not in any position to be reprimanding you! Just think that as someone who draws the "slur" line so very low, you should be more careful in your choice of words, whether in the office or elsewhere. I mean if someone important got caught on someone else's camera phone saying something off color on a golf course, it would still come out, would it not?

[paulxu]

As far as the NCAA (and the conferences themselves) are concerned, the Big East is now the American Athletic Conference. But simultaneous with that name change the NCAA sanctioned a brand new conference known -- admittedly confusingly -- as the Big East.

I didn't think either of those things in the eyes of the NCAA happened until July 1st. In other words, the Big East today still exists with UC in it.

[LA Muskie]

I didn't think either of those things in the eyes of the NCAA happened until July 1st. In other words, the Big East today still exists with UC in it.
That is true. Technically they have not happened yet. (Well, maybe in the NCAA's eyes the Big East name change occurred, since that isn't a "corporate" change -- I don't know.) But they have been approved, the new conference has been sanctioned, and those decisions will formally take effect automatically on July 1st.

[paulxu]

Funny stuff I came across:

Go to Verbal Commits site: http://www.verbalcommits.com/

They list 6 major conferences. We're under the Big East tab.
There is no tab for the minor Aflac conference. You want UC, Louisville, etc.?
Look 'em up.

[paulxu]

Just curious. If the BE that we will be in doesn't officially start until August 1st per the NCAA (despite our celebration/ball game on July 1st)...where exactly are we from July 1 till August 1? In sort of limbo state where we don't really belong to any conference?

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2013/April/DI+Board+recognizes+new+conference+changes+bowl+qu alification

[xudash]

Just curious. If the BE that we will be in doesn't officially start until August 1st per the NCAA (despite our celebration/ball game on July 1st)...where exactly are we from July 1 till August 1? In sort of limbo state where we don't really belong to any conference?

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2013/April/DI+Board+recognizes+new+conference+changes+bowl+qu alification

Official with respect to being an entity, otherwise awaiting official recognition from the NCAA as of August 1? That would be my guess at what probably only is a technical matter.

[GoMuskies]

We're NAIA for a month. Maybe this means we can go rogue in recruiting in July.

[BMoreX]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=collegebasketballnation&id=85481&src=desktop

[paulxu]

Beaknose at the 'Tas !

[xubrew]

Just curious. If the BE that we will be in doesn't officially start until August 1st per the NCAA (despite our celebration/ball game on July 1st)...where exactly are we from July 1 till August 1? In sort of limbo state where we don't really belong to any conference?

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2013/April/DI+Board+recognizes+new+conference+changes+bowl+qu alification

It's hyper-technicalities that don't matter.....unless you want to know.

So, since I'm among those that want to know, that is an excellent question. I always thought everything changed on July 1st. That's always been New Year's day for the NCAA Athletic Calendar. I have no idea why it would be August 1st and not July 1st. The only thing I can think of is that August 1st is when practice for Fall sports officially begins.

[bobbiemcgee]

Beaknose at the 'Tas !


That would be fun.