Dez Freaking Wells!!!

[MuskiePimp23]

Wells is a beast...easily the best player on the floor today and for the entire ACC tourney so far...He hung 30 leading Maryland over # 2 Duke...Thank you again Fr. Graham and the Xavier admin. for kicking him out of school for doing absolutely nothing wrong...and the NCAA clears him right away. What a complete joke by the idiots running my beloved Alma Mater and a kid who loved Xavier so much, yet they kicked him to the curb. What a shame. What could have been this year and beyond with Dez still in a Xavier uniform. We have nobody to blame, but the people running the school. They should all be fired.

[gladdenguy]

And we are stuck with Justin Martin to replace an NBA Type caliber stud in Dez. An absolute joke and slap in the face. One guy with great understanding of the game and an absolute motor to a guy who looks like he could care less most of the time and plays like he has nothing upstairs.

And the girls who cry foul need to be reprimanded in some way.

[BlueGuy]

I'm not gonna pile on... However, Dez freaking going HAM last night is just salt in the wound.

[Masterofreality]

Good for Dez. I'm happy for him. But as for XU in this? Why wallow in continuing angst?

Over. Let it go. As Chris Mack says "next play".

[PMI]

Dez has really been a beast in this tournament. I'm really hoping he and the rest of the young Maryland team can keep it rolling. Turgeon has these guys playing so well right now. Every time Duke threatened to pull a typical Duke run, they stayed composed and made big plays. They refused to lose last night, and Dez led the way. Go Terps!

[xavierj]

How much money will it cost xavier for mistakingly booting Dez Wells from the university? Between missing the ncaa tournament this year and possibly next year and from how much he would have donated tomXavier during his pro career.

[CinciX12]

Good for you Dez. Couldn't be happier for him.

[bobbiemcgee]

Any X fan that had the pleasure of seeing him play is not at all surprised.

[Xman95]

Any X fan that had the pleasure of seeing him play is not at all surprised.

I know I'm not. Dez is a heckuva player and only getting better. And, short of one mistake and some false claims by someone that apparently has gone unpunished for things she did, Dez has had a reputation of being really good kid.

[DC Muskie]

Good for Dez. He seems to have moved on and the events of last summer doesn't look like it has effected him at all, which is great.

As for a certain segment of Xavier fans...not so much.

It's obvious that the program is headed in the wrong direction. I mean we are headed to the Big East. We should fire everyone who got us to this position! Makes sense.

[XU2011]

It's obvious that the program is headed in the wrong direction. I mean we are headed to the Big East. We should fire everyone who got us to this position! Makes sense.

The only leader who had anything to do with positioning Xavier for an invite to the Big East has just left the University because Graham refused to pay him what he was worth. Mike Bobinski single-handedly put Xavier on the national map in Athletics, which in turn put the University on the national stage. The administrators we have left... Graham, Chadwick, Kucia... the success experienced by Xavier athletics/men's basketball during Bobinski's tenure was in spite of them, not because of them.

[bjf123]

We would be never have been able to pay Bobinski what he could get at a major football school. Maybe he just wanted the personal challenge of being AD with football responsibilities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XU2011]

We would be never have been able to pay Bobinski what he could get at a major football school. Maybe he just wanted the personal challenge of being AD with football responsibilities.



Agreed on the football end.

Not on your idea that Xavier couldn't afford him. Xavier only pays him $225k now (hell, the Rhode Island AD who is reportedly coming to X makes $185k at RI). GA Tech is going to pay him $625k. Xavier gets about $400k in TV money from A-10, next year and going forward will get $3M plus in Big East. I think with the extra TV money, X could have given him an offer he couldn't refuse. Not to mention X pays Kucia as Administrative VP $225k to oversee... well, nothing really other than Bobinski and Athletics.

But as I said earlier, I suspect you're probably right... I think Bobinski wanted a football school, particularly if he wants the ND job someday.

Back on topic... Damn, I miss Dez.

[LA Muskie]

How much money will it cost xavier for mistakingly booting Dez Wells from the university? Between missing the ncaa tournament this year and possibly next year and from how much he would have donated tomXavier during his pro career.

The wins maybe. But you'd be shocked at how little we get from our high profile (and very well paid) alumni players.

[LA Muskie]

The Bobinski decision was not financial. Period.

[DC Muskie]

The only leader who had anything to do with positioning Xavier for an invite to the Big East has just left the University because Graham refused to pay him what he was worth. Mike Bobinski single-handedly put Xavier on the national map in Athletics, which in turn put the University on the national stage. The administrators we have left... Graham, Chadwick, Kucia... the success experienced by Xavier athletics/men's basketball during Bobinski's tenure was in spite of them, not because of them.

Man I thought gladdenguy was the only person who hated his school.

This kid takes the cake.

[XU2011]

Love Xavier. Just realistic.

[DC Muskie]

What's realistic? An argument that we didn't pay Bobinski what you think he was worth? An argument you recognize as probably not the cause of him leaving?

That's realistic? Whatever you make up in your head to feel better?

Okay kid.

[chico]

How much money will it cost xavier for mistakingly booting Dez Wells from the university? Between missing the ncaa tournament this year and possibly next year and from how much he would have donated tomXavier during his pro career.

Would we have seen any NCAA money this year with us leaving the A-10?

[XU 87]

Mike Bobinski single-handedly put Xavier on the national map in Athletics, which in turn put the University on the national stage.

Really? All those coaches (Staak, Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller and now Mack) had nothing to do with the success of the program? All the people who show up for games all these years and donate money had nothing to do with this? All the people that gave money to build Cintas had nothing to do with this? All the good players who played here get no credit either? It's all due to Bobinski?

[LadyMuskie]

The Bobinski decision was not financial. Period.

This is what I've heard as well. Money played no part whatsoever - at least when it came to Xavier v. Ga. Tech.

[LadyMuskie]

The only leader who had anything to do with positioning Xavier for an invite to the Big East has just left the University because Graham refused to pay him what he was worth. Mike Bobinski single-handedly put Xavier on the national map in Athletics, which in turn put the University on the national stage. The administrators we have left... Graham, Chadwick, Kucia... the success experienced by Xavier athletics/men's basketball during Bobinski's tenure was in spite of them, not because of them.

I disagree vehemently that Bobinski was the only "leader" who had anything to do with positioning X for an invite to the Big East.

There's a reason why James Hoff's name is on a jersey hanging in the rafters of Cintas. If any one person gets credit for where Xavier Basketball is today, it's Fr. Hoff. The man created Creighton Basketball and then came to Xavier and made us a powerhouse too. Bobinski helped, no doubt, but you want to thank just one person, thank Fr. Hoff.

[XU 87]

This is what I've heard as well. Money played no part whatsoever - at least when it came to Xavier v. Ga. Tech.

If money wasn't a part, why did he leave?

[GoMuskies]

Is Bobinski getting paid more by Georgia Tech? If the answer to that question is no, then I will believe that money played NO part in the decision. If he IS getting paid more, then I will need evidence that you guys are actually living inside Mike's brain.

[DC Muskie]

I'm pretty sure he isn't going to work for Georgia Tech for free.

[XU 87]

I think he almost tripled his salary going to Georgia Tech. He made about $225,000 at XU and he's making around $600,000 at Georgia Tech.

[DC Muskie]

Does he fire Gregory right away or wait a few days?

[XU 87]

I disagree vehemently that Bobinski was the only "leader" who had anything to do with positioning X for an invite to the Big East.

There's a reason why James Hoff's name is on a jersey hanging in the rafters of Cintas. If any one person gets credit for where Xavier Basketball is today, it's Fr. Hoff. The man created Creighton Basketball and then came to Xavier and made us a powerhouse too. Bobinski helped, no doubt, but you want to thank just one person, thank Fr. Hoff.

There's many reasons and many people responsible for the rise of the program. But this never would have happened without a very good fan base that showed up to games and gave money.

[DC Muskie]

I think the overall point is, to me at least...no one or thing is bigger than the school, and that includes the basketball program. The rise and any misconceptions of us falling do not reside with one person...

Be it Mike, Father Hoff, Graham, and certainly not Dez Wells.

[GuyFawkes38]

The only leader who had anything to do with positioning Xavier for an invite to the Big East has just left the University because Graham refused to pay him what he was worth. Mike Bobinski single-handedly put Xavier on the national map in Athletics, which in turn put the University on the national stage.

I like Bobinski, but he's definitely NOT worth a big raise to us. It's much more difficult to replace a head basketball coach. We need to save some cash in case we need to give Mack a raise (which hopefully happens).

[XU 87]

Bobinski's done a great job, but I've heard he's hasn't been around much lately.

[drudy23]

Bobinski's done a great job, but I've heard he's hasn't been around much lately.



He's the Chair of the Selection Committee...pretty sure that had something to do with it.

[LA Muskie]

Bobinski's done a great job, but I've heard he's hasn't been around much lately.

He hasn't because of his NCAA MBB Committee duties. But we were thrilled to have him on that committee nevertheless -- it is a huge honor -- and he was still quite involved.

[LA Muskie]

I think he almost tripled his salary going to Georgia Tech. He made about $225,000 at XU and he's making around $600,000 at Georgia Tech.

Let's put it this way: He'll make more at Ga Tech. But that's not why he left. He never asked for a raise to stay. He was ready to move on to the next challenge. As is his right.

[XU 87]

Let's put it this way: He'll make more at Ga Tech. But that's not why he left. He never asked for a raise to stay. He was ready to move on to the next challenge. As is his right.

I'm not criticizing him for leaving. But his next challenge also triples his salary. I have a very, very hard time believing that money played no role in his move.

And when I said I heard he hadn't been around much lately, I don't mean just the last few months.

[GoMuskies]

But that's not why he left.

Again, if you are buzzing around in his brain, I'll take your word for it. Anyone tripling their salary is generally doing it partly for the money. I'm sure he has other reasons, too, but he clearly didn't turn down the extra money. If he had agreed to take the same salary at Georgia Tech (or just a modest increase to account for cost of living differences), I'd be totally with you.

[PMI]

Is Bobinski getting paid more by Georgia Tech? If the answer to that question is no, then I will believe that money played NO part in the decision. If he IS getting paid more, then I will need evidence that you guys are actually living inside Mike's brain.

Exactly. It's naive to think that money didn't play a part in his decision. It's his career. I'm not saying it was the only factor, and it may not even be the biggest factor, but it mattered. I think he genuinely wanted the challenge of being at a high level football school. But money always plays a part in that kind of a career decision.

[bleedXblue]

Exactly. It's naive to think that money didn't play a part in his decision. It's his career. I'm not saying it was the only factor, and it may not even be the biggest factor, but it mattered. I think he genuinely wanted the challenge of being at a high level football school. But money always plays a part in that kind of a career decision.

I read somewhere that the AD's from major university's make between 500K and 1 Mil annually. Some even more....

[danaandvictory]

Is this the thread where Muskiepimp tells us about his ongoing machinations to depose Fr. Graham? Because that's going to be the most exciting storyline this summer - intrigue, palace coups, conspiracies.

[LA Muskie]

Again, if you are buzzing around in his brain, I'll take your word for it. Anyone tripling their salary is generally doing it partly for the money. I'm sure he has other reasons, too, but he clearly didn't turn down the extra money. If he had agreed to take the same salary at Georgia Tech (or just a modest increase to account for cost of living differences), I'd be totally with you.
If he had asked XU to match the Ga Tech salary and XU said no, I would agree with you in a heartbeat. But when that doesn't happen (and I am informed that it did not), it's much more difficult to argue money as a primary motivator.

[GoMuskies]

If he had asked XU to match the Ga Tech salary and XU said no, I would agree with you in a heartbeat. But when that doesn't happen (and I am informed that it did not), it's much more difficult to argue money as a primary motivator.

If Xavier offered to match, and he declined, then I'd be right there with you. Did they? It's not like they have to wait for him to ask.

[PMI]

If he had asked XU to match the Ga Tech salary and XU said no, I would agree with you in a heartbeat. But when that doesn't happen (and I am informed that it did not), it's much more difficult to argue money as a primary motivator.

Are you saying he asked Xavier to match and they said yes? Or did Xavier offer and he said no? In either case, he's still leaving for, at worst, as much money as he was getting, and he gets to try the football thing. Sounds like a win-win to me, but he still isn't taking a pay cut. As with just about every career decision, I still think you can logically conclude money was a factor. Unless you can tell me he told you otherwise in a lie detecting test, I'm going to assume he's just like everyone else and cares about the money too.

[LadyMuskie]

I can't say why I think he left for reasons other than money without getting into trouble for breaking board rules. I'm sure he'll enjoy his new salary (who wouldn't) but I still don't believe it was the driving factor in him leaving.

[LA Muskie]

Are you saying he asked Xavier to match and they said yes? Or did Xavier offer and he said no? In either case, he's still leaving for, at worst, as much money as he was getting, and he gets to try the football thing. Sounds like a win-win to me, but he still isn't taking a pay cut. As with just about every career decision, I still think you can logically conclude money was a factor. Unless you can tell me he told you otherwise in a lie detecting test, I'm going to assume he's just like everyone else and cares about the money too.
I'm saying he never asked Xavier to match. Which tells me that while he's almost certainly happy to be making money (who wouldn't be?), money wasn't his primary reason for leaving. If money was the determining factor, he would have at least asked.

[LA Muskie]

I can't say why I think he left for reasons other than money without getting into trouble for breaking board rules. I'm sure he'll enjoy his new salary (who wouldn't) but I still don't believe it was the driving factor in him leaving.
Lady knows what she is talking about.

[GoMuskies]

If money was the determining factor, he would have at least asked.

That's not necessarily true.

[LA Muskie]

That's not necessarily true.
Actually, yes it is. If money was the primary motivating factor, you at least ask for a match. Otherwise, by definition, it's secondary (in that some other factor has led to you not asking for the money match).

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, you're assuming some facts that just aren't in evidence here. Some people might even think it's unseemly to make the request you're suggesting. That doesn't mean they might not listen if the offer were made...

[LA Muskie]

Yeah, you're assuming some facts that just aren't in evidence here. Some people might even think it's unseemly to make the request you're suggesting. That doesn't mean they might not listen if the offer were made...
I'm not assuming anything. OK that's not entirely correct. I am assuming that I was told the truth by people who are well-placed, who know a lot, and have been correct on everything they've told me to date.

[GoMuskies]

And none of those people can tell you for sure what Mike Bobinski's motivations are unless they gave him truth serum. I'm sorry, but when a guy triples his salary, it's pretty hard to believe it's not about the money. Because it's almost always about the money.

[DC Muskie]

I believe Mike was looking for an AD job that oversaw a major football program. His name was linked to many jobs for the last few years. It's not like Mike was looking for a job that would have been a lateral move. He wanted a bigger or at least a different challenge. That by itself tells you he wanted something Xavier could not offer.

Getting a bigger payday is par with the course for taking on bigger challenges. There was nothing Xavier could have done to keep him short of investing in developing a football program.

[paulxu]

I can't say why I think he left for reasons other than money without getting into trouble for breaking board rules. I'm sure he'll enjoy his new salary (who wouldn't) but I still don't believe it was the driving factor in him leaving.

Sure, just drop that little jewel out there and go away!

Meanwhile, I'm convinced that Miller left for money, and Matta, and....well, just about everybody who gets a promotion which pays more money probably fits into this category.

[GoMuskies]

Getting a bigger payday is par with the course for taking on bigger challenges.

And sometimes people want to take on bigger challenges because they know it means a bigger payday. I don't think any of us can know what was truly driving Bobinski. No matter how good your sources (maybe if it was Mike's wife).

I don't begrudge him either way. I want bigger challeges and bigger paychecks, too. But mostly I just want bigger paychecks.

[smileyy]

Meanwhile, I'm convinced that Miller left for money, and Matta, and....well, just about everybody who gets a promotion which pays more money probably fits into this category.

Money and "status", yeah.

[LA Muskie]

I believe Mike was looking for an AD job that oversaw a major football program. His name was linked to many jobs for the last few years. It's not like Mike was looking for a job that would have been a lateral move. He wanted a bigger or at least a different challenge. That by itself tells you he wanted something Xavier could not offer.

Getting a bigger payday is par with the course for taking on bigger challenges. There was nothing Xavier could have done to keep him short of investing in developing a football program.
Exactly.

[paulxu]

Is there a "Derailment Award" for the thread that ends up having the least to do with its title?

[LA Muskie]

Is there a "Derailment Award" for the thread that ends up having the least to do with its title?
Good point. Although I'm all for Dez Wells-related threads to be thrown off track...

[DC Muskie]

And sometimes people want to take on bigger challenges because they know it means a bigger payday. I don't think any of us can know what was truly driving Bobinski. No matter how good your sources (maybe if it was Mike's wife).

I don't begrudge him either way. I want bigger challeges and bigger paychecks, too. But mostly I just want bigger paychecks.

I think you can easily...it's not like he was secretly looking for a new position, or looking for positions that didn't have a football program.

Mike has pretty much been given whatever he has wanted to do at Xavier. The financial limitations were there, he saw two coaches leave and was never able to match what they could have made in their new jobs.

[DC Muskie]

Is there a "Derailment Award" for the thread that ends up having the least to do with its title?


The thread was pointless to begin with, so why not derail it with something just as equally pointless?

[XU 87]

I'm saying he never asked Xavier to match. Which tells me that while he's almost certainly happy to be making money (who wouldn't be?), money wasn't his primary reason for leaving. If money was the determining factor, he would have at least asked.

He may have known that X was not going to triple his salary and give him a $400,000 raise. That's why he didn't ask.

And I don't fault him for wanting a job that makes a lot more money.

[Kahns Krazy]

There have been times in my career that I have left a smaller company where I have maxed out my potential and gone to a different place for the growth opportunities, not the current paycheck. It just so happens that the growth opportunities also go hand in hand with the money.

What I'm saying is that Bobo didn't leave for a little more money, he left for a whole shitpot more money. Call it growth or whatever, but in the end, it comes down to the buck.

[PMI]

I'm not assuming anything. OK that's not entirely correct. I am assuming that I was told the truth by people who are well-placed, who know a lot, and have been correct on everything they've told me to date.

It's great that reliable people have told you Bobinski did not leave because of money, and again, I'm not just assuming that is the primary reason. But you can't honestly believe that you know with such certainty that he didn't leave in LARGE part because of a bigger pay day. You also can't say with such certainty that the fact that he allegedly did not ask Xavier for an absolutely enormous pay raise is proof that money was not an important factor in his decision. You can have your opinion all you want and I'm sure it's based on a perfectly reasonable thought process, but the truth is, none of us know. All we can do is speculate, and it's by no means unreasonable to consider such a large pay raise as a fairly important factor in his career move, as I believe most people would. I'm not trying to start an argument. The truth is, we don't know.

[chico]

The thread was pointless to begin with, so why not derail it with something just as equally pointless?

There is no way that the new burger place at the casino is better than 5 Guys. I don't care what anyone says.

As for the Bobinski thing, if only there was somebody on here who was close to the program. Maybe someone who actually spoke to him from time to time, like at a high school baseball game or something. Then we'd have the real story. Until that happens, everyone's just guessing.

[XU 87]

There is no way that the new burger place at the casino is better than 5 Guys. I don't care what anyone says.

As for the Bobinski thing, if only there was somebody on here who was close to the program. Maybe someone who actually spoke to him from time to time, like at a high school baseball game or something. Then we'd have the real story. Until that happens, everyone's just guessing.

Or maybe someone whose son knows his son. Then we could find out the real story.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's great that reliable people have told you Bobinski did not leave because of money, and again, I'm not just assuming that is the primary reason. But you can't honestly believe that you know with such certainty that he didn't leave in LARGE part because of a bigger pay day. You also can't say with such certainty that the fact that he allegedly did not ask Xavier for an absolutely enormous pay raise is proof that money was not an important factor in his decision. You can have your opinion all you want and I'm sure it's based on a perfectly reasonable thought process, but the truth is, none of us know. All we can do is speculate, and it's by no means unreasonable to consider such a large pay raise as a fairly important factor in his career move, as I believe most people would. I'm not trying to start an argument. The truth is, we don't know.

Well said.

[smileyy]

Good point. Although I'm all for Dez Wells-related threads to be thrown off track...

Unless they're talking about how he's playing...I think that's how this thread started.

[DC Muskie]

Unless they're talking about how he's playing...I think that's how this thread started.

No it was started so people could bitch, once again, about the leadership of the school. I'm perfectly happy to derail such nonsense.

I do find it funny that somehow figuring out the motivation of man who actively sought out another AD job at another school that met his specific interests can only be subjected to pure speculation, since he don't know what's going on his mind...while some think Dez was screwed and not one person was in the room when the decision was made, let alone in the minds of people who made the decision.

Heck we don't even know how many people came to that decision.

Believe me, I'm very much a part of the silliness in such discussions, but I hope others can see the humor in such conversations of other people's decisions.

[LA Muskie]

It's great that reliable people have told you Bobinski did not leave because of money, and again, I'm not just assuming that is the primary reason. But you can't honestly believe that you know with such certainty that he didn't leave in LARGE part because of a bigger pay day. You also can't say with such certainty that the fact that he allegedly did not ask Xavier for an absolutely enormous pay raise is proof that money was not an important factor in his decision. You can have your opinion all you want and I'm sure it's based on a perfectly reasonable thought process, but the truth is, none of us know. All we can do is speculate, and it's by no means unreasonable to consider such a large pay raise as a fairly important factor in his career move, as I believe most people would. I'm not trying to start an argument. The truth is, we don't know.

I will grant you all of this. My source is not Mike himself, so yes -- my sources are speculating to some degree on what is actually going on his mind, and I am relying on that conjecture.

[XU2011]

No it was started so people could bitch, once again, about the leadership of the school. I'm perfectly happy to derail such nonsense.



I assume you are referring to me since you earlier in the thread asked me "What's realisitic? Whatever you make up in your head? Grow up kid." I don't know if you are personal friends with Mike Graham (who I think has done a heck of a lot of good for Xavier) that anyone who dares question his recent leadership is ripped apart and just bitching.

What's realistic for me is the reality.... Enrollment is missing projected and budgeted marks substantially across the board; undergrad student retention is plummeting; the University is operating at a loss; our Endowment is embarrasingly low and insufficient by millions and millions of dollars; the University was just federally indicted due to an incompetence and ineffectiveness at the previous Provost and Associate Provost positions which was painfully obvious to the entire University except Mike Graham; 3 very key leaders who have all been very largely responsible for high level of succes and growth in their areas (2 of which put Xavier on the map nationally) have left the University in Mike Bobinski, Ali Malekzadeh the former Dean of the Williams College of Business and Adrian Scheiss the former Director of Student Success and Retention.... Oh, and the repeated and constant public/media relations disasters of the past 1 1/2 years...

Now, there's a lot of good to great things going on at the University as well... But to act like it's all sunshine and roses on Victory Parkway and ridicule anyone who dare questions the directon of the University or Mike Graham, is a bit blind to the reality.

[DC Muskie]

We've had this discussion before. Simply repeating the same things regarding enrollment doesn't make you correct. I've already explained the enrollment issue...it's not just a Xavier thing. That's reality. There are fewer kids graduating in the state of Ohio...that's reality.

Did you just claim that Adrian Scheiss put Xavier on the map nationally? If you think that is true, then there is nothing left to discuss. That is simply laughable. Mike Bobinski has sought jobs long before the past year and half...to ignore that simple fact is to ignore reality. I'm not sure how you can blame the administration for a guy who has left and wanted to do so for the past three years at least.

Look the reaction that somehow the school is headed in the wrong direction because the AD left and the freshmen retention director who was there for like 25 years, left as well is silly. GW has serious problems, they are misrepresenting their enrollment numbers. That's a much bigger deal than some poor press coverage over a basketball player being kicked out of school.

No place is perfect, but forgive me if I think your reaction to the current leadership is somehow steering the school in the wrong direction is ridiculous.

[GoMuskies]

Adrian Scheiss left? Thank God. What a blowhard that guy is.

[aceylone7777]

I assume you are referring to me since you earlier in the thread asked me "What's realisitic? Whatever you make up in your head? Grow up kid." I don't know if you are personal friends with Mike Graham (who I think has done a heck of a lot of good for Xavier) that anyone who dares question his recent leadership is ripped apart and just bitching.

What's realistic for me is the reality.... Enrollment is missing projected and budgeted marks substantially across the board; undergrad student retention is plummeting; the University is operating at a loss; our Endowment is embarrasingly low and insufficient by millions and millions of dollars; the University was just federally indicted due to an incompetence and ineffectiveness at the previous Provost and Associate Provost positions which was painfully obvious to the entire University except Mike Graham; 3 very key leaders who have all been very largely responsible for high level of succes and growth in their areas (2 of which put Xavier on the map nationally) have left the University in Mike Bobinski, Ali Malekzadeh the former Dean of the Williams College of Business and Adrian Scheiss the former Director of Student Success and Retention.... Oh, and the repeated and constant public/media relations disasters of the past 1 1/2 years...

Now, there's a lot of good to great things going on at the University as well... But to act like it's all sunshine and roses on Victory Parkway and ridicule anyone who dare questions the directon of the University or Mike Graham, is a bit blind to the reality.

Extremely true in regards to transfers out. I couldn't believe how many people transferred away after freshman year (I was HS '10) and cited how poorly they felt X was. I didn't think that myself (but now I'm out as well), but it's a thought shared by many a person.

[Muskie]

Extremely true in regards to transfers out. I couldn't believe how many people transferred away after freshman year (I was HS '10) and cited how poorly they felt X was. I didn't think that myself (but now I'm out as well), but it's a thought shared by many a person.

Lots of people transferred out after my Freshman year (96). College or X in particular isn't for everyone especially at prices these days.

[PMI]

Extremely true in regards to transfers out. I couldn't believe how many people transferred away after freshman year (I was HS '10) and cited how poorly they felt X was. I didn't think that myself (but now I'm out as well), but it's a thought shared by many a person.

I remember how adamant Adrian Scheiss was to my freshman class that Xavier was a four year university, and how those of us there were going to graduate from there. Retention rate was a huge source of pride for him, and was something the university not only hung its hat on, but did as well as anyone. I guess he's since moved on to something else...

[aceylone7777]

Lots of people transferred out after my Freshman year (96). College or X in particular isn't for everyone especially at prices these days.

That's what killed me was the money. Lost my scholly and couldn't pay the 40 grand.

Muskies...I wouldn't bash Adrian Scheiss personally. That man helped me an awful lot.

[LA Muskie]

As Xavier has transitioned away from being a local/regional university to a more "national" (and to a much lesser extent, "international") university, retention takes a hit. That's the cost of doing business at that level.

No doubt enrollment and retention have been major issues at Xavier. But we are not alone. It is a trend among nearly all private 4-year institutions. The stock market may have finally returned to (and exceeded) the 2007 highs. But that has not trickled down to the vast majority of American families. Money is tight. More students are opting to start off at 2-year schools to build up their core cheaply, if they attend at all. Public schools -- even though more expensive now than ever before -- are still at a significant cost advantage. And population demographics show that the tri-state region -- from which we still get our critical mass of students -- is graduating as many as 10% fewer students and that the trend will continue for several more years.

Financially this is a very tough time for Xavier. As it is for many other schools. There will be budget cuts to shore things up, as there must be in any business during lean times. But we are in very, very good hands and our administration (as well as the Board of Trustees) have a plan to deal with all of it.

No need for doom and gloom. Just revel in the news that should come tomorrow. And before any of you continue to bash Fr. Graham, remember that he has been part of the strategic vision from which this resulted. (It may have begun under Fr. Hoff -- and to some extent even earlier -- but remember that Fr. Graham was Fr. Hoff's right hand man for much of the tenure, and that Fr. Graham has always been a major advocate for the roll of the basketball team in the University's growth.)

[LA Muskie]

I remember how adamant Adrian Scheiss was to my freshman class that Xavier was a four year university, and how those of us there were going to graduate from there. Retention rate was a huge source of pride for him, and was something the university not only hung its hat on, but did as well as anyone. I guess he's since moved on to something else...

Adrian was a blow-hard, no doubt. But he did his job, and he did it well. And parents loved that the university put such an emphasis on the retention issue.

[XU2011]

We've had this discussion before. Simply repeating the same things regarding enrollment doesn't make you correct. I've already explained the enrollment issue...it's not just a Xavier thing. That's reality. There are fewer kids graduating in the state of Ohio...that's reality.

Did you just claim that Adrian Scheiss put Xavier on the map nationally? If you think that is true, then there is nothing left to discuss. That is simply laughable.

No, I am not claiming Adrian Scheiss put Xavier on the map nationally. I was referring to Bobinski and Malekzadeh. They both led the most successful and recognized areas of the University in Athletics and the Williams College of Business. Malekzadeh was truly a transformative leader for the WCB. I brought up Scheiss because after 25+ years of leading Student Success and Retention in which Xavier had truly phenomenal undergrad retention rates (the best in the region and some of the best nationally), he “resigned” and student retention has plummeted. Not dropped, but plummeted in the last 2 years. I don’t know him personally, so it’s not about that, just looking at the facts. Just a wild guess on my part… but maybe, just maybe there is a small correlation.

Again, I will emphasize I think Graham has done a heck of a lot of great things for the University and, indeed, has been a transformative leader. That doesn’t mean no one can question his leadership and that of other senior administrators over the last 2-3 years, or the direction of the University. If you want to attribute substantial missed enrollment marks to a decrease in Ohio population when more than half of Xavier’s new students come from outside Ohio, that’s your choice. I still think Dayton is welcoming in record classes.

What about the embarrassingly low and substantially underfunded Endowment? What about the University operating at a loss? What about the federal indictment in how the University handles rape and sexual assault cases due to Graham allowing incompetent and ineffective leaders to remain in senior Provost Office positions for years. What about Xavier’s total lack of media/public relations and any effective communications office/plan over the past 1 ½ years and the repeated and constant embarrassments in the regional and national media? Or what about abandoned, vacant, unuseable buildings sitting in the middle of campus because Xavier doesn't have the funding to renovate, tear down or rebuild (see the University's balance sheet and lack of an effective Endowment). I guess we could contribute all that to population trends in Ohio as well.

[LA Muskie]

What about the embarrassingly low and substantially underfunded Endowment? What about the University operating at a loss? What about the federal indictment in how the University handles rape and sexual assault cases due to Graham allowing incompetent and ineffective leaders to remain in senior Provost Office positions for years. What about Xavier’s total lack of media/public relations and any effective communications office/plan over the past 1 ½ years and the repeated and constant embarrassments in the regional and national media? I guess we could contribute all that to population trends in Ohio as well.
You can't blame Fr. Graham for the lack of an endowment. That is a problem that goes back generations. Admittedly on his watch we haven't "saved." That's because we had to build a campus to compete with other schools. Look around at the campus. It has gone from being one of the most old and wretched looking universities, to one of the most beautiful and modern that I have seen. That is all on Fr. Hoff and his protege, Fr. Graham.

I have no comment on the treatment of sexual harassment cases or the DOE investigation. I just don't know enough about them. I do know that it is a problem at nearly every university, due in VERY LARGE part to the rampant use of alcohol and drugs on campus, their effects on the judgment of young, hormone-filled kids, and the "day after" effect of bad decisions.

[XU2011]

You can't blame Fr. Graham for the lack of an endowment. That is a problem that goes back generations. Admittedly on his watch we haven't "saved." That's because we had to build a campus to compete with other schools. Look around at the campus. It has gone from being one of the most old and wretched looking universities, to one of the most beautiful and modern that I have seen. That is all on Fr. Hoff and his protege, Fr. Graham.

.

Mike Graham has also been President for 13 years and VP for University Relations (fundraising) before that. I think he can shoulder some of the blame for the lack of an Endowment that has now grown into a major, major concern going forward.

Agreed on the campus.... that was one of the things I was talking about in Graham truly being a transformative leader. The transformation of the campus, particularly over the past 4-5 years, but really over the past decade has been phenomenal, and a lot of that credit goes to Graham.

[DC Muskie]

No, I am not claiming Adrian Scheiss put Xavier on the map nationally. I was referring to Bobinski and Malekzadeh. They both led the most successful and recognized areas of the University in Athletics and the Williams College of Business. Malekzadeh was truly a transformative leader for the WCB. I brought up Scheiss because after 25+ years of leading Student Success and Retention in which Xavier had truly phenomenal undergrad retention rates (the best in the region and some of the best nationally), he “resigned” and student retention has plummeted. Not dropped, but plummeted in the last 2 years. I don’t know him personally, so it’s not about that, just looking at the facts. Just a wild guess on my part… but maybe, just maybe there is a small correlation.

Again, I will emphasize I think Graham has done a heck of a lot of great things for the University and, indeed, has been a transformative leader. That doesn’t mean no one can question his leadership and that of other senior administrators over the last 2-3 years, or the direction of the University. If you want to attribute substantial missed enrollment marks to a decrease in Ohio population when more than half of Xavier’s new students come from outside Ohio, that’s your choice. I still think Dayton is welcoming in record classes.

What about the embarrassingly low and substantially underfunded Endowment? What about the University operating at a loss? What about the federal indictment in how the University handles rape and sexual assault cases due to Graham allowing incompetent and ineffective leaders to remain in senior Provost Office positions for years. What about Xavier’s total lack of media/public relations and any effective communications office/plan over the past 1 ½ years and the repeated and constant embarrassments in the regional and national media? Or what about abandoned, vacant, unuseable buildings sitting in the middle of campus because Xavier doesn't have the funding to renovate, tear down or rebuild (see the University's balance sheet and lack of an effective Endowment). I guess we could contribute all that to population trends in Ohio as well.

I think LA answers this stuff better than me. But I will say this...you can't be more wrong about enrollment figures; you keep putting out the same wrong arguments. UC has the same problem, their enrollment is off. It doesn't matter where the majority of the student population comes from, when the state in which the school resides has fewer students, that will effect your enrollment. I have friends who work in admissions at UC and CUA out here. Trust me, this is not just a Xavier problem.

But really, I have to ask because I'm curious...What exactly do you like about Xavier?

[PMI]

Adrian was a blow-hard, no doubt. But he did his job, and he did it well. And parents loved that the university put such an emphasis on the retention issue.

I'm not sure if you detected a tone I didn't intend (I was really just making a little retention joke) but I do not dislike Adrian Scheiss. He helped me out of a couple of jams when I was there and he was extremely accessible.

[DC Muskie]

Mike Graham has also been President for 13 years and VP for University Relations (fundraising) before that. I think he can shoulder some of the blame for the lack of an Endowment that has now grown into a major, major concern going forward.

Trust me, you have zero idea how to build an endowment.

None.

Zip.

Just stay focused on bad press, and kids you know who have transferred. There is absolutely no way to blame Graham for the endowment. If anything he should be praised for the successful campaigns he has run.

So stop.

[LA Muskie]

Mike Graham has also been President for 13 years and VP for University Relations (fundraising) before that. I think he can shoulder some of the blame for the lack of an Endowment that has now grown into a major, major concern going forward.

Agreed on the campus.... that was one of the things I was talking about in Graham truly being a transformative leader. The transformation of the campus, particularly over the past 4-5 years, but really over the past decade has been phenomenal, and a lot of that credit goes to Graham.
You can't give him credit for that, and call him transformative, while complaining about the endowment. Well, I guess you can, but it's not fair. He was saddled with an ugly campus and a pathetic endowment. He didn't make that bed. He needed to do something. He concentrated (rightly, I believe) on the former because his advisors (rightly, I believe) told him that it will be easier to build an endowment after the campus is more of a source of pride for students and alumni. He simply couldn't do it all simultaneously.

[LA Muskie]

I'm not sure if you detected a tone I didn't intend (I was really just making a little retention joke) but I do not dislike Adrian Scheiss. He helped me out of a couple of jams when I was there and he was extremely accessible.

Sorry, I wasn't inferring that your post implied otherwise. I just quoted it for context.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure if you detected a tone I didn't intend (I was really just making a little retention joke) but I do not dislike Adrian Scheiss.

I'm the one that called him a blowhard, and I do dislike him and am glad he's not associated with Xavier anymore.

But I'm glad he helped you out.

[PMI]

How do you build an endowment?

I think it's fair to say that Fr. Graham is probably somewhere between the careless destroyer of all things good that some view him as and the neer-do-wrong hero that others view him as. I think he deserves some credit for things and some blame for things. That's part of the deal, being at the top. It's neither appropriate to blindly attack him or blindly praise him.

[LA Muskie]

I think it's fair to say that Fr. Graham is probably somewhere between the careless destroyer of all things good that some view him as and the neer-do-wrong hero that others view him as. I think he deserves some credit for things and some blame for things. That's part of the deal, being at the top. It's neither appropriate to blindly attack him or blindly praise him.
Hard to disagree with that. Although I believe Fr. Graham has been a net positive. And I don't believe it is a particularly close call.

[PMI]

I'm the one that called him a blowhard, and I do dislike him and am glad he's not associated with Xavier anymore.

But I'm glad he helped you out.

Believe me, I'm not going to go out of my way to defend him or anything. But you did stay at Xavier our years, didn't you? Actually, from friends of mine who I've talked with about it, Xavier made it very difficult to transfer to other schools in my day, at least for certain majors. You give me a big room and a strong lock, I'll give you a 100% "retention rate."

[GoMuskies]

And I stayed at Carolina Law for three years, too. Schiess had nothing to do with that, either, if you want to know how they correspond.

[XU2011]

Trust me, you have zero idea how to build an endowment.

None.

Zip.


So stop.

Evidently, neither does Mike Graham.

[XU2011]

I think it's fair to say that Fr. Graham is probably somewhere between the careless destroyer of all things good that some view him as and the neer-do-wrong hero that others view him as. I think he deserves some credit for things and some blame for things. That's part of the deal, being at the top. It's neither appropriate to blindly attack him or blindly praise him.

Agreed. I have said I think Graham has done a great job on the whole. And I like him a lot.

But if you dare question anything regarding Xavier, particularly Mike Graham or his leadership, it sets something off in DC Muskie and he just can't handle it. Nothing but sunshine and rainbows in Graham's office and Victory Parkway.

[DC Muskie]

Evidently, neither does Mike Graham.

Based on your knowledge, this statement is basically...shit.

[paulxu]

And I stayed at Carolina Law for three years, too. .

Wait a second...you lived here in the Upstate?

[GoMuskies]

Real Carolina

[DC Muskie]

But if you dare question anything regarding Xavier, particularly Mike Graham or his leadership, it sets something off in DC Muskie and he just can't handle it. Nothing but sunshine and rainbows in Graham's office and Victory Parkway.

No not at all. I think if you presented tangible arguments based on sound evidence then you have something. But rattling off about enrollments and endowments, subjects that you clearly know nothing about, then yes people like me will tell you how wrong you are.

Please explain to me where you think Graham has failed on building an endowment and where do you think our endowment should be as of 2012. I'm very interested.

[paulxu]

Carolina Law is a group in Greenville, SC.
I now see you were talking about law school (I guess) at our northern Carolina (not real) cousin.
That may, however, explain the move to Wichita. You should have come down here to Carolina.

[blueblob06]

Hadn't looked at Dez Wells' stats in a while; I never seem to see Maryland on TV. His last 4 games - 19, 21, 19, and 18 pts.

And how about this game against Miami FL:
Played just 24 mins, 21 pts, 7-7 FG, 1-1 3PT, 6-6 FT, 4 REB, 3 AST, 2 STL

Overall, he's averaging 15.2 pts, 4.4 reb, 2.0 asts, 2.7 turnovers, 48.3 FG%, 33.3 3PT%, 79.3 FT%

[GoMuskies]

He'd probably play a bit on our team if he were still here.

[DC Muskie]

He'd probably play a bit on our team if he were still here.

And play the NCAA tournament.

[xubrew]

I'm so glad this thread has been brought back to the top.

[GoMuskies]

And play the NCAA tournament.

Yeah, we'd definitely make the Tournament with Wells on the squad.

[DC Muskie]

Yeah, we'd definitely make the Tournament with Wells on the squad.

Maryland won't and they actually have him!

[GoMuskies]

The rest of their team must really suck. Glad Gregg Marshall is here and Mark Turgeon is there.

[DC Muskie]

The rest of their team must really suck. Glad Gregg Marshall is here and Mark Turgeon is there.

They do, and we have seemed to be fine without him. He's there and Semaj is here.

[GoMuskies]

we have seemed to be fine without him

Well, actually no.

[DC Muskie]

Well, actually no.

Well, actually yes. Maryland, actually no.

[RealDeal]

So Maryland had the #5 pick in the draft and dez and played in the nit? Is that accurate?

[GoMuskies]

If you think missing the freaking NIT and then projecting to be a 9 seed are "doing fine", you and I have different definitions of "doing fine". Hell, even Maryland was better than us last year. I'm not sure what Semaj has to do with Dez. We should have had both. It's not like we had to pick.

[DC Muskie]

So Maryland had the #5 pick in the draft and dez and played in the nit? Is that accurate?

Yes. They made it to the Final Four, but lost. Dayton went further with less.

[DC Muskie]

If you think missing the freaking NIT and then projecting to be a 9 seed are "doing fine", you and I have different definitions of "doing fine". Hell, even Maryland was better than us last year. I'm not sure what Semaj has to do with Dez. We should have had both. It's not like we had to pick.

I'm merely pointing out that we are in the BE, we are projected to be in the tournament at the moment and have a first round pick running the team. If you think missing the tournament one year, then returning, while bringing in our first ever first round pick who plays guard and playing in a better conference is anything other than fine, then you have some major concerns.

We got Semaj right after the Dez disaster. It was supposed to be the end, and Maryland would have all of this success. We are bringing in our best class ever next season. I guess that's not fine either. That's pretty awesome actually.

So we are doing awesome. Thanks for correcting me!

[GoMuskies]

Samaj was signed well before the Dez disaster, so I still don't get the point. Great, that we're in the Big East. I'm of course thrilled. And I hope we make the Tournament. But last year we sucked, and this year, we're certainly not great. We'd be much, much better with Dez on the team. I don't really see these past two years as "doing fine". Certainly not by Xavier standards.

Next year's class is, of course, fucking awesome.

[Muskie]

So Maryland had the #5 pick in the draft and dez and played in the nit? Is that accurate?

Yeah but he was the equivalent of a Shawn Bradleyesque top 5 pick.

[Muskie]

Samaj was signed well before the Dez disaster, so I still don't get the point. Great, that we're in the Big East. I'm of course thrilled. And I hope we make the Tournament. But last year we sucked, and this year, we're certainly not great. We'd be much, much better with Dez on the team. I don't really see these past two years as "doing fine". Certainly not by Xavier standards.

Next year's class is, of course, fucking awesome.

Yes but we really can't make those assumptions. Dez being here may have meant Justin Martin's progression this year would be stunted. it may have kept X from getting a transfer like Stainbrook (i don't recall if we had enough scholarships if you include Dez). There's no guarantee that Dez and Semaj would play well together. It's fun to plug his stats at Maryland this year and put them on this squad. But you and I both know it doesn't equate out.

[DC Muskie]

Samaj was signed well before the Dez disaster, so I still don't get the point. Great, that we're in the Big East. I'm of course thrilled. And I hope we make the Tournament. But last year we sucked, and this year, we're certainly not great. We'd be much, much better with Dez on the team. I don't really see these past two years as "doing fine". Certainly not by Xavier standards.

Next year's class is, of course, fucking awesome.

Semaj could have left. He didn't. We are going back to the tournament after one year hiatus. It happens, even to a program with Xavier's standards.

Dez is a good player. A good player on a crappy team. There are plenty of good players on crappy teams that would be great for us, so I don't see the point of focusing on Dez. He'll be a Terp longer than he ever was a Musketeer. And he'll never get back to the tournament, playing for a team that isn't close to be being fine. We are in a much better situation than Maryland, so in my mind, we are fine. Certainly finer than Dez and his situation.

[GoMuskies]

He averaged 10 ppg for us his freshman year. I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume he'd have remained very productive playing for Xavier.

[GoMuskies]

Certainly finer than Dez and his situation.

Yes, but we all should have been better off. Dez and us. Being fine compared to Maryland sucks. It's about as impressive as being fine compared to Dayton.

[DC Muskie]

He averaged 10 ppg for us his freshman year. I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume he'd have remained very productive playing for Xavier.

He was also suspended in his freshmen year. There's no telling that he wouldn't have gotten suspended again...oh wait. Never mind.

[DC Muskie]

Yes, but we all should have been better off. Dez and us. Being fine compared to Maryland sucks. It's about as impressive as being fine compared to Dayton.

I'd take their Championship in 2002. Hell I would have taken beating them in the tournament in 2003. Maryland got Dez, one would think they could be more productive.

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, I'd take Dayton's 1847 Final Four or whenever it was, too. Maryland is a joke these days and has been for some time. They're a great get for the Big 14 along with Rutgers.

I think we're generally aiming higher than that these days.

I'm thrilled with the direction of our program. I just wish I was thrilled with the direction of the program with Wells in it.

[DC Muskie]

Yeah, I'd take Dayton's 1847 Final Four or whenever it was, too. Maryland is a joke these days and has been for some time. They're a great get for the Big 14 along with Rutgers.

I think we're generally aiming higher than that these days.

I'm thrilled with the direction of our program. I just wish I was thrilled with the direction of the program with Wells in it.

It was just 12 years ago. Let's not act like Maryland won when they played with peach baskets. I do agree though they have been a joke. As a fan of Maryland I'm excited for their move to the Big Ten. They are going to make a boatload of money because of it.

I'm happy with the direction of the program. Dez Wells is the furthest thing on my mind. I laugh at the people on this board who thought the Dez situation would bring the program down. Looks like won't be the case. Best of luck to him. Maybe next year someone might draft him.

[GoMuskies]

Dez Wells is the furthest thing on my mind.

Honestly, mine too. Someone else bumped the thread, but otherwise I think about Wells maybe once a month when I happen to see a Maryland score.

[DC Muskie]

Honestly, mine too. Someone else bumped the thread, but otherwise I think about Wells maybe once a month when I happen to see a Maryland score.

It's absolutely frustrating when I get the chance to see Maryland, to see them play so terribly. I feel bad for the kid. He's gone to a school where opponents called him a rapist, and now scream stupid "ACC! ACC!" chants at him. All of this because he messed around with a crazy chick.

Life is not fair.

Thanks to whomever bumped this thread. Always a good time.

[LA Muskie]

We would have been better with Dez on the team. But let's move on to a more debatable topic. Like whether the Earth is round.

[X-band '01]

let's move on to a more debatable topic.

Question - what kind of bear is best?

[LA Muskie]

Question - what kind of bear is best?

Bear or Beer? Not sure I'm qualified to opine on either, but I'm more studied in beer.

[Sassyfrass]

I like Grizzly.

And beer.

[OTRMUSKIE]

The earth is round that has been proven by bill nye the science guy this week. The best bear is a teddy and the best beer is Flower Power IPA

[XU2011]

They do, and we have seemed to be fine without him. He's there and Semaj is here.

What? This is likely going to be the 2nd time in my lifetime that we miss the NCAA tournament for 2 consecutive years.

And you say we're "fine". I can think of a lot of different adjectives to describe that, and fine isn't one of them.

[XU2011]

Yes but we really can't make those assumptions. Dez being here may have meant Justin Martin's progression this year would be stunted. it may have kept X from getting a transfer like Stainbrook (i don't recall if we had enough scholarships if you include Dez). There's no guarantee that Dez and Semaj would play well together..

Uh, I'd much rather thake Dez's consistency than Martin's incredibly streaky performances. We're giving scholarships to Stenger and Amos, Chris Cantino was on scholarship last year... Dez here would have had absolutely no effect on Stainbrook coming. I'd rather take a chance that Dez and Semaj would have played well together..... than how Semaj and Dee or Semaj and Randolph play together. Dee, Semaj, Dez, Martin, Stainbrook. Uh, thanks Scott Chadwick....

[XU2011]

We are going back to the tournament after a TWOyear hiatus.

Fixed that for you. Take a look at our schedule. We've got probably 2 games that rest of the year we'll be favored. @Butler @Marquette @Georgetown @St Johns @ Seton Hall vs Providence vs DePaul vs Creighton vs Villanova.

If I had to guess, wins @Butler @Seton Hall, 1 between Gtown/St Johns/Marquette, vs Providence, vs DePaul. That isn't going to get us in, unless we make a run in the BE tournament.

[danaandvictory]

20-11, 10-8 in this league, which is what you're predicting, should be good enough.

[GoMuskies]

20-11, 10-8 in this league, which is what you're predicting, should be good enough.

It would be close, but I think it would git er dun. Particularly if UC keeps winning. That's a huge feather in our cap. In your average year I wouldn't be super excited about barely sneaking into the Tournament, but after last year I'll take any ticket to the Dance. The Tournament kind of sucks when your team's not in it.

[XU 87]

What? This is likely going to be the 2nd time in my lifetime that we miss the NCAA tournament for 2 consecutive years.

And you say we're "fine". I can think of a lot of different adjectives to describe that, and fine isn't one of them.

Stop all your hand wringing and just enjoy the season and see how it plays out. You're way too young to be this much of a worrier.

[profson]

Fixed that for you. Take a look at our schedule. We've got probably 2 games that rest of the year we'll be favored. @Butler @Marquette @Georgetown @St Johns @ Seton Hall vs Providence vs DePaul vs Creighton vs Villanova.

If I had to guess, wins @Butler @Seton Hall, 1 between Gtown/St Johns/Marquette, vs Providence, vs DePaul. That isn't going to get us in, unless we make a run in the BE tournament.

I would have the same guess, except 2 of Seton Hall/Gtown/St. John's/Marquette, which gets you the same number of wins, 20, and like Dana I think that would do it.

[DC Muskie]

What? This is likely going to be the 2nd time in my lifetime that we miss the NCAA tournament for 2 consecutive years.

And you say we're "fine". I can think of a lot of different adjectives to describe that, and fine isn't one of them.

We aren't "likely to miss the tournament for 2 consecutive years."

We are third in the Big East. The 4th best conference in the country with a first round draft pick and the best recruiting class coming in in your entire lifetime.

You're right. We're not fine. I'd use another adjective. Awesome.