Xavier to the New Big East

[PattyMac1021]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9000502/catholic-7-schools-keep-big-east-name-new-league-next-season-according-sources

X will be joining in time for next season along with Butler.

[xfan'17]

I'm excited for the program

[Cheesehead]

Love it!

[BMoreX]

This is second Christmas for me. I have been waiting for this moment for 3 1/2 years. Xavier will be in the Big East! Goodbye A10!

[GoMuskies]

This is second Christmas for me. I have been waiting for this moment for 3 1/2 years. Xavier will be in the Big East! Goodbye A10!

I became a Xavier fan around 1989. So I'd say I've been waiting for this moment for 24 years. Though I never thought it was remotely possible until much more recently.

[boozehound]

Awesome!

[Emp]

I just saw that crawl on ESPN as well. Incredible! Recruiting will go to the moon.

[xfan'17]

Mack is already a great recruiter, I can't wait to see how it'll improve because of this.

[waggy]

One of the greatest things to happen for the program ever? I mean if works out like everyone hopes, then definitely.

It's what I always hoped for for the program - ie, a meaningful media contract that the program can count on for budgeting and exposure, and other good like-minded programs to compete against. I don't think it gets much better.

[drudy23]

It's a great day to be a Xavier fan.

To all you UC fans, Let me be the first to say:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAh

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just saw that crawl on ESPN as well. Incredible! Recruiting will go to the moon.


Mack is already a great recruiter, I can't wait to see how it'll improve because of this.

I agree. Its not just the schedule but the recruiting! Cant wait for that.

[Muskie1000]

Best quote of the night from the UC chat board...

"Xavier and Butler to join, so next year Xavier will be in the Big East and we'll be in the ?????? Conference. This is my nightmare folks, this is my nightmare."

[Pablo's Brother]

This is great news for our University period. The bar (and expectations) get raised for our recruiting, admissions, exposure, basketball program, just EVERYTHING!

Woo hoo!

[GoMuskies]

Xavier's conference my freshman year:

Butler
Wright State
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
LaSalle
Northern Illinois
Illinois-Chicago
Loyola (IL)
Detroit Mercy
Cleveland State

Unreal how far we've come.

[whiteyxu]

Best quote of the night from the UC chat board...

"Xavier and Butler to join, so next year Xavier will be in the Big East and we'll be in the ?????? Conference. This is my nightmare folks, this is my nightmare."

I thought they didn't really care about little old Xavier over there... Haha ha ha hahahaha!

[Musketeer_15]

Best quote of the night from the UC chat board...

"Xavier and Butler to join, so next year Xavier will be in the Big East and we'll be in the ?????? Conference. This is my nightmare folks, this is my nightmare."
HAHAHAHAHA UC is having their worst nightmare ever! But joining the new Big East will be great. As other people have posted, recruiting will get better. Just think, Xavier signs a top 10 recruit, who would of thought of that happening 10 years ago? Season ticket sales will be great next year as well. No more push overs like Fordham or Duquense on the schedule. Lets hope that the new Big East can keep the MSG deal, if so I will be making a trip to the NYC next spring!

[PMI]

One of the greatest things to happen for the program ever? I mean if works out like everyone hopes, then definitely.

It's what I always hoped for for the program - ie, a meaningful media contract that the program can count on for budgeting and exposure, and other good like-minded programs to compete against. I don't think it gets much better.

Not just the program, this is one of the greatest things that could've happened to the school itself. As Pablo's Brother said, this is huge for our exposure in the east and nationally. We are going to make something like seven times more money in the athletic department per year with the new TV deal. Everything about this is just incredible. And dayton isn't coming, at least for now. And I could care less what the UC fans think about this one way or another. I'm not interested in what the fans of the mid-major across town think quite frankly. This is about Xavier, a program that is now a member of one of the best conferences in the nation. My boner is at an 11 out of 10 tight now.

[waggy]

Yup, if you're an X girl you're probably getting lucky tonight! :laugh:

[PMI]

Yup, if you're an X girl you're probably getting lucky tonight! :laugh:

Speaking of which, I'm thinking this move couldn't hurt Xavier in the other kind of talent recruiting department. You know, the one they need serious improvement in.

[XUFan09]

Season ticket sales will be great next year as well. No more push overs like Fordham or Duquense on the schedule.

This part is a huge perk from my perspective. Instead of Fordham, Duquesne, etc., Xavier's "crap games" in conference will be against teams like DePaul

[xubrew]

The article mentions that Creighton has emerged as the favorite for the 10th team. It seems as though the worse Creighton plays, the more of a favorite they are. They're still a tournament team, but overall they've been dissapointing this year. How are they suddenly the favorite?? I realize they've been good on a national level the last two years, but they have never been to a Sweet Sixteen, they have three tournament appearances since 2003, and last year was their first appearance since 2007. Their last outright league title was 2001 (although they did tie for first twice). Once Doug McDermott leaves, I think they'll be an NIT team far more often than not.

Wouldn't VCU make more sense?? They're not getting any mention at all. They've got a brand name, they've consistently improved over the last ten years, and that trend is continuing. Shaka Smart is good, but he isn't the entire foundation. For Creighton, I think Doug McDermott is the entire foundation and it will be a long time before they're this good again after he's gone.

[PMI]

The article mentions that Creighton has emerged as the favorite for the 10th team. It seems as though the worse Creighton plays, the more of a favorite they are. They're still a tournament team, but overall they've been dissapointing this year. How are they suddenly the favorite?? I realize they've been good on a national level the last two years, but they have never been to a Sweet Sixteen, they have three tournament appearances since 2003, and last year was their first appearance since 2007. Their last outright league title was 2001 (although they did tie for first twice). Once Doug McDermott leaves, I think they'll be an NIT team far more often than not.

Wouldn't VCU make more sense?? They're not getting any mention at all. They've got a brand name, they've consistently improved over the last ten years, and that trend is continuing. Shaka Smart is good, but he isn't the entire foundation. For Creighton, I think Doug McDermott is the entire foundation and it will be a long time before they're this good again after he's gone.

Totally agree. VCU would be my absolute top choice for a 10th, with SLU being next.

[chowertime]

Speaking of which, I'm thinking this move couldn't hurt Xavier in the other kind of talent recruiting department. You know, the one they need serious improvement in.

public reps. the man is keeping me down.

[xu 89]

I wonder what this means for the cost of the season tickets. I know the P2 people can lock in the seat license for 5 years but what will the actual tickets cost?

[Section 200]

Totally agree. VCU would be my absolute top choice for a 10th, with SLU being next.

I would vote a huge NO to VCU. It would be a huge public school in a league with elite private universities. Also too much risk that Shocka leaves soon and then the success stops. Plus I find the constant foul style they play to be boring, slow and not in the spirit of what basketball is supposed to be.

[Masterofreality]

Xavier's conference my freshman year:

Butler
Wright State
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
LaSalle
Northern Illinois
Illinois-Chicago
Loyola (IL)
Detroit Mercy
Cleveland State

Unreal how far we've come.

Xavier's Conference my freshman through senior year:

---

[X-ceptional]

I think this is good news.

[LA Muskie]

I would vote a huge NO to VCU. It would be a huge public school in a league with elite private universities. Also too much risk that Shocka leaves soon and then the success stops. Plus I find the constant foul style they play to be boring, slow and not in the spirit of what basketball is supposed to be.

1. "Elite"? Let's not get carried away. There may be a few but it's far from descriptive of the whole.

2. You are wrong about VCU on the basketball court.

3. I get that it doesn't fit the mold. But it's not like this is the BiG where academics and research will actually play a role. This is a basketball league.

[xubrew]

It should be a basketball-centic conference and not a private university centric conference. VCU makes the most basketball sense.

Over the past ten years, we've seen teams come and go on the national scene. Some of them came out of nowhere, and then retreated right back to where they came from. Drake and Washington State come to mind.

If you look at the teams that have really built themselves up and managed to stay good over the past ten years, they all have something in common. They all did it incrimentally. (San Diego State, Colorado State, VCU, Kansas State, Butler, Baylor, and yes....Xavier). Like all of the teams on that list, VCU had been on an upward trend before Shaka Smart took over. They were good under Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant. That's why I'm not worried about them. They have a fanstastic athletic department, and I'm quite confident they'll continue to be good if and when Shaka Smart leaves.

Creighton, on the other hand, will likely digress quickly once Doug McDeromott is in the NBA.

[Snipe]

I want the full round robin. I want tickets to see Georgetown, Nova and Marquette every year. Big games are coming.

I would have taken SLU instead of Butler and kept it an All Catholic league. I love Butler, but the opportunity to help out another Jesuit University with all those millions and TV games would be huge. I would have kept it Catholic.

That said, I am a huge fan of what Butler has done, and they are probably going to be our new great rival going on.

I don't want divisions. I want the round robin. That is the most important thing to me. I want to play everyone home and away every year.

Man is this great news.

Honestly though, if they A-10 had cut the fat and gotten down to the best 9 teams, that would have been a great conference too.

[Cincypunk.org]

It's a great day to be a Xavier fan.

To all you UC fans, Let me be the first to say:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAh

What conference will UC be in now?

[GoMuskies]

What conference will UC be in now?

The Big Nameless.

[UCGRAD4X]

The Big Lameass.

There. Fixed it for you.

[surfxu]

I guess this rumor has been swirling around for so long that it really doesn't seem like "news", that being said, it is SOOOO friggin awesome!!!! Nothing against our current players, but we have just barely missed out on so many high level recruits because of conference affiliation (sometimes for the better). What has not been mentioned yet is the coaching pattern of being here for 4-8 years and moving on to programs in a big conference. Does that finally come to and end (or at least the timeline moving to 8-12 years)? What does this mean for non-conference scheduling? I can't imagine going to a uc type of schedule, but typically X wants to play a Big 10, SEC, ACC and maybe a PAC 10 school each year, does that change materially? Do we get to call uc a mid-major (which really they have been since chuggins left)? What excuse does the yellow toothed gnome use now to explain their non-conference schedule? I really don't care about the last 2 questions, but this is still such huge news for the school, the program and the fans.

[PMI]

I would vote a huge NO to VCU. It would be a huge public school in a league with elite private universities. Also too much risk that Shocka leaves soon and then the success stops. Plus I find the constant foul style they play to be boring, slow and not in the spirit of what basketball is supposed to be.

I think you're way off. The current Big East (as well as A10) have big public universities, and some of them have very good basketball programs. VCU is in a decent market, south of the other Big East teams. And the idea that the program's sustainability relies on Shaka Smart is simply ignorant. VCU has been an excellent program for just as long as we have. Their status as a competitive program goes back decades and has been relatively uninterrupted. They've had lots of success with several coaches and several different styles of basketball. Maybe you're just bitter about the loss last Saturday (I sure am) but VCU has absolutely everything you'd look for in an additional member to this great league.

[Juice]

I think you're way off. The current Big East (as well as A10) have big public universities, and some of them have very good basketball programs. VCU is in a decent market, south of the other Big East teams. And the idea that the program's sustainability relies on Shaka Smart is simply ignorant. VCU has been an excellent program for just as long as we have. Their status as a competitive program goes back decades and has been relatively uninterrupted. They've had lots of success with several coaches and several different styles of basketball. Maybe you're just bitter about the loss last Saturday (I sure am) but VCU has absolutely everything you'd look for in an additional member to this great league.

Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant had that program rolling long before Shaka.

[xu95]

I am so glad I locked in my seat donation for five more years.

[Xavier]

Count me in as a No to the VCU group. Still have to prove themselves, IMO. The year they went to the FF, I think they were a play in game that many thought shouldn't have even made it. It isn't like they were really good that whole year.

PMI- VCU has hardly been competitive for decades. The "success" they have had since 1990 is Six tournament appearrances. Granted, they have gotten better- but since 2000 they have had just 5 tournament appearrances and only twice (since 90) have they gone to the second weekend. To say they have been an excellent program as long as Xavier is a joke.

[Section 200]

I think you're way off. The current Big East (as well as A10) have big public universities, and some of them have very good basketball programs. VCU is in a decent market, south of the other Big East teams. And the idea that the program's sustainability relies on Shaka Smart is simply ignorant. VCU has been an excellent program for just as long as we have. Their status as a competitive program goes back decades and has been relatively uninterrupted. They've had lots of success with several coaches and several different styles of basketball. Maybe you're just bitter about the loss last Saturday (I sure am) but VCU has absolutely everything you'd look for in an additional member to this great league.

Glad that you love VCU, but the people in charge share my opinion. They do not fit the mold of the conference and I doubt they have any appeal outside of Virginia. Until this year I didn't have any opinion of VCU and now that I have seen them, they are a team that I would be happy to never play again. Hope they enjoy the A-10.

[eXdrummer]

Glad that you love VCU, but the people in charge share my opinion. They do not fit the mold of the conference and I doubt they have any appeal outside of Virginia. Until this year I didn't have any opinion of VCU and now that I have seen them, they are a team that I would be happy to never play again. Hope they enjoy the A-10.

This "mold" of the all-Catholic conference was already broken when Butler was chosen. As for the lack of appeal outside of Virginia, this sounds exactly like something that has been said about Xavier for the past few decades... The fact is VCU has arrived as a legitimate program, and the university is invested in the program. They are breaking ground on a multi-million dollar practice facility this year. And you are happy to never play them again based on having played them in one conference game?

[Michigan Muskie]

So DSR will play in the Cintas Center after all.

[danaandvictory]

I think VCU has a great program and their attributes are unquestioned, but I'd be surprised if they are included in this league.

[Masterofreality]

This "mold" of the all-Catholic conference was already broken when Butler was chosen. As for the lack of appeal outside of Virginia, this sounds exactly like something that has been said about Xavier for the past few decades... The fact is VCU has arrived as a legitimate program, and the university is invested in the program. They are breaking ground on a multi-million dollar practice facility this year. And you are happy to never play them again based on having played them in one conference game?

With all due respect, this sounds like the post from the Siena fan on the other thread. Siena is "invested" in their program too, but a coaching change and they are off the map. When Shaka leaves, and trust me he will, what happens?

Xavier has had 5 coaches and now 3 conferences in 30 years with long term consistent success. It has had plenty of appeal and respect outside of Ohio...in fact, much more than in-state because of the Ohio State and UC honks who try to dismiss it.

Good luck going forward, but, despite your one Final Four, you really can't compare the two places.

[DC Muskie]

With all due respect, this sounds like the post from the Siena fan on the other thread. Siena is "invested" in their program too, but a coaching change and they are off the map. When Shaka leaves, and trust me he will, what happens?

Xavier has had 5 coaches and now 3 conferences in 30 years with long term consistent success. It has had plenty of appeal and respect outside of Ohio...in fact, much more than in-state because of the Ohio State and UC honks who try to dismiss it.

Good luck going forward, but, despite your one Final Four, you really can't compare the two places.

Why do people forget that Anthony Grant and Jeff Capel coached at VCU before Shaka?

Why hasn't Shaka left yet if there is no hope to build on the program? Jeez, the team is ranked, rallied from 17 down to beat us and we act like they are a one hit wonder.

Some of you guys have interesting perspectives. Completely ignore history and facts, while at the same time try and validate projections you have that are not based on any evidence.

[kyxu]

Why do people forget that Anthony Grant and Jeff Capel coached at VCU before Shaka?

Why hasn't Shaka left yet if there is no hope to build on the program? Jeez, the team is ranked, rallied from 17 down to beat us and we act like they are a one hit wonder.

Some of you guys have interesting perspectives. Completely ignore history and facts, while at the same time try and validate projections you have that are not based on any evidence.

Plus a Final Four appearance barely two years ago.

[Xavier]

Why do people forget that Anthony Grant and Jeff Capel coached at VCU before Shaka?

Why hasn't Shaka left yet if there is no hope to build on the program? Jeez, the team is ranked, rallied from 17 down to beat us and we act like they are a one hit wonder.

Some of you guys have interesting perspectives. Completely ignore history and facts, while at the same time try and validate projections you have that are not based on any evidence.

I didn't. I checked what they have done in the tournament. Six tournament appearrances since 1990.

[DC Muskie]

I didn't. I checked what they have done in the tournament. Six tournament appearrances since 1990.

Soon to be 7. That would be 4 out of the last five years they made the dance.

You ignored the fact VCU moved from the Sun belt, to the CAA to the A10 in the past 17 years. They won the CAA in just their second year of joining and in their first year in the A-10 they could claim the title. The last three coaches have had a winning percentage of at least 66%, the last two over 75%. You're right they are a one hit wonder. At any given moment they could crumble.

[waggy]

VCU is a good program, but I wouldn't pick them cause there name is too long.

[xu95]

Honestly I think the deciding factor is that they are a public institution. With all private colleges the Big East will not be bound by laws requiring FOIA requests, etc. They can do things without having to make it public knowledge.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yup, if you're an X girl you're probably getting lucky tonight! :laugh:

Is Dez back in town?

[JTG]

Xavier's Conference my freshman through senior year:

---

Surprisingly my freshman year 68-69 we played Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown...what goes around come around, I just didn't think it would take 45 years.

[Xavier]

Soon to be 7. That would be 4 out of the last five years they made the dance.

You ignored the fact VCU moved from the Sun belt, to the CAA to the A10 in the past 17 years. They won the CAA in just their second year of joining and in their first year in the A-10 they could claim the title. The last three coaches have had a winning percentage of at least 66%, the last two over 75%. You're right they are a one hit wonder. At any given moment they could crumble.

I guess I just value tournament success higher than you. (Not even tournament success, really. Just getting to the tournament in VCU's case) Great, 7 tournament apperrances in 23 years. I just don't find that to be too impressive, thats all. If they continue to get to the tournament for a few more years I think they would deserve an invite.

But- no need to argue this right now. Just happy UC is getting kicked out of the Big East and Xavier is getting the invite. XU will be making more money from Bball than UC.

[SM#24]

I guess there should be no team #10 in the BE then. I haven't researched, but off the top of my head, what of the other candidates has a better track record than VCU recently, say past 5 years, and over the past 20 years ? SLU, Dayton, Richmond, Creighton ?
I see no clear #10, much less #s 10-12; I mean we're really splitting hairs amongst the aforementioned.

[PMI]

Count me in as a No to the VCU group. Still have to prove themselves, IMO. The year they went to the FF, I think they were a play in game that many thought shouldn't have even made it. It isn't like they were really good that whole year.

PMI- VCU has hardly been competitive for decades. The "success" they have had since 1990 is Six tournament appearrances. Granted, they have gotten better- but since 2000 they have had just 5 tournament appearrances and only twice (since 90) have they gone to the second weekend. To say they have been an excellent program as long as Xavier is a joke.


Glad that you love VCU, but the people in charge share my opinion. They do not fit the mold of the conference and I doubt they have any appeal outside of Virginia. Until this year I didn't have any opinion of VCU and now that I have seen them, they are a team that I would be happy to never play again. Hope they enjoy the A-10.

How very, very wrong you guys are, and no, I don't love VCU. Just because you guys are ignorant to their success does not mean they haven't had any. VCU has had just SEVEN losing records in their program's history, which dates back to the late 60's. Most of those seasons were under one shitty coach in the 90s. Xavier started getting good in the early 1980s. At that point, VCU was a fixture in the second round of the tournament. To discredit their success just because you guys clearly know nothing about them is dumb. I'm not saying they've been as consistently great as us, but they have been a really good program and have more than proven their sustainability. If you're looking at that, you can say that the only decade we have been clearly better than them was the 1990s. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, they've been as good or better than us. In the past 13 years or so, I'd give us the edge but it is not as far off as you think. Hell, in the last decade+ they have been one of the best programs in the country. Just look at the records and tournament success. And that's not even to mention the support the program gets and all the other factors.

Section 200, if your argument is that they aren't that good because you didn't know about them until this year, that speaks far more about your knowledge of college basketball than their success, believe that.

[throwbackmuskie]

X record all time vs the Big East
4-2 vs Georgetown
4-3 vs Seton Hall
31- 16 vs Butler
15-46 vs Marquette
3-8 vs DePaul
9-6 vs Creaighton
2-1 vs Providence
0-1 vs St John's
4-16 vs Villanova

72-99

[XUFan09]

Not every program can be as consistent as Xavier has been for the last thirty years. Using that as a measuring stick is unfair to most programs, especially a generally good program that had a bad decade.

[Xavier]

Hell, in the last decade+ they have been one of the best programs in the country. Just look at the records and tournament success. And that's not even to mention the support the program gets and all the other factors.

.

Because of one tournament run (in which they were in the play-in game) and another sweet 16? In the past decade they have been to the tournament 5 times. That just doesn't scream one of the best programs in the past decade to me.

[DC Muskie]

I don't think I have ever advocated for VCU's inclusion at all. I've merely used facts to counter the argument that somehow VCU is one coach away from sucking, so why should they be included.

I value NCAA tournament appearances and especially recent appearances.

This "deserve" an invite theory is stupid. We don't deserve anything. I certainly don't think Providence, Seton Hall or DePaul deserve to be in a conference with Xavier.

Maybe Xavier the poster hasn't realized this...but VCU has more NCAA tournament appearances than Providence in the last 23 years. They have the same as Seton Hall. They have more than DePaul and two less than St. Johns. None of those programs scream "one of the best."

All the while moving up the food chain from one bid conferences to the A-10. The CAA became a two bid conference didn't they? Wasn't it because of VCU?

[Aughnanure]

Because of one tournament run (in which they were in the play-in game) and another sweet 16? In the past decade they have been to the tournament 5 times. That just doesn't scream one of the best programs in the past decade to me.

Their only Sweet 16 came in the ONE run. They've only made it to the 2nd weekend once...ever.

[GoMuskies]

Still once more than Creighton (and tied with us as of 9 short years ago lest we forget).

[DC Muskie]

In the past decade they have been to the tournament 5 times.

That's two less than North Carolina. One less than Indiana. One more than LSU.

You bat .500 in a one bid conference, you're doing pretty well. Especially when the examples from multi-bid conferences are not that great.

[Aughnanure]

Still once more than Creighton (and tied with us as of 9 short years ago lest we forget).


Not sure what that means. Creighton has been to 3 Sweet Sixteens. Was it a different era? Sure. But it also wasn't 1948. Creighton has invested and been consistent for a longtime now w/ 17 tourney appearances.

[GoMuskies]

I was relying on xubrew, who has been saying that Creighton has never been to the Sweet Sixteen. Damn you 'brew!

'62, '64 and '74 were a long time ago (now that I have done my own research). It is true that Creighton has never won more than one game in an NCAA Tournament (Regional 3rd place games don't count).

[MHettel]

I have no idea what the fascination is with VCU. They are a solid program which is on a nice recent run. Their Final 4, which is their main accomplishment came in a year where they had to play in the play-in game. They literally barely made teh dance, and won 5 games in a row. That aint enough to merit inclusion.

Lets go back to Capel, Grant and include Smart.

In conference these teams went 133-47 (73.8%)
Out of conference these teams went 106-47 (69.3%)

My general feeling is that this team has played in a true mid-major conference and won alot of games. But I'm just not seeing the sustained success to believe that they will keep it up.

And besides VCU has almost nothing in common with the other C7 +XU+Butler schools. 11 private schools and one public school with 31000 students? Just doesnt fit.

Stick to the like minded private schools.

[Aughnanure]

I was relying on xubrew, who has been saying that Creighton has never been to the Sweet Sixteen. Damn you 'brew!

'62, '64 and '74 were a long time ago (now that I have done my own research). It is true that Creighton has never won more than one game in an NCAA Tournament (Regional 3rd place games don't count).

Creighton is still a more consistent winner and more committed program than VCU. Same goes for Dayton (commitment wise at least). Creighton will do well in the new league.

I mean, has Gonzaga had that much success? I think its much more difficult to move on in the tourney if you're from a lower conference because of the low seeding. In fact, if you look closer at some a lot of great NCAA runs, many never had to play a team seeded higher or equal until they got to the Final 4 or Elite 8 (KU in '88), and its a pretty good indicator of getting to the Sweet 16 (Gonzaga 2006 & 2009). Luck has a lot to do with it, and always being seeded low is an impediment to that luck.

[coasterville95]

Love it

Apparently Mark Slaughter (high school sports reporter) just asked Coach Mack.

Coach Mack : "I have no idea what you are talking about I've heard nothing". Mack proceeds to laugh as he leaves the room.

[GoMuskies]

Blaudschun says we're not out of the woods quite yet on this thing.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5385

[Masterofreality]

Blaudschun says we're not out of the woods quite yet on this thing.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5385

But.......

It WILL be worked out.

[xfan'17]

I am so glad I locked in my seat donation for five more years.

Yeah, season ticket prices will probably sky rocket

[DC Muskie]

I have no idea what the fascination is with VCU. They are a solid program which is on a nice recent run. Their Final 4, which is their main accomplishment came in a year where they had to play in the play-in game. They literally barely made teh dance, and won 5 games in a row. That aint enough to merit inclusion.

Lets go back to Capel, Grant and include Smart.

In conference these teams went 133-47 (73.8%)
Out of conference these teams went 106-47 (69.3%)

My general feeling is that this team has played in a true mid-major conference and won alot of games. But I'm just not seeing the sustained success to believe that they will keep it up.

And besides VCU has almost nothing in common with the other C7 +XU+Butler schools. 11 private schools and one public school with 31000 students? Just doesnt fit.

Stick to the like minded private schools.

My God, what an incredibly stupid argument. I expect nothing less from my boy MH.

If anyone can turn the idea of making it to the Final Four into a bad thing, it's MH. VCU had to win games to make it to the tournament! Barely made the dance, and damn it they won games to get to the Final Four. That's not successful enough to me! You need to solidly make the tournament for 30 years and never win enough games to go to the Final Four to be merit inclusion into my mind of a conference!

You actually are using their success against them. If anything I have shown you how each time they move conference affiliation they have won. Each time. Just like Xavier. They have also accomplished two things that Xavier has not.

They beat Duke in the Dance.
They made it to the Final Four.

We made our first run to the Elite Eight off of having to beat 4 teams in four days to win our conference tournament.

Never mind that.

Again, I don't care if VCU is in or even discussed. I wish people would simply stop acting like it's a program that doesn't win, or is incapable of sustained winning.

They were certainly a worthy addition of the A10. We are not jumping to the Western Conference of the NBA here guys. It's a great move for us, no doubt, but man, stop killing VCU.

[GIMMFD]

I just salivated at the thought of this. Welcome to the big time boys. In this new conference, with the recruits we are going to get, I could see a national championship banner hanging in Cintas one of these days...

[XU-XHI]

Xavier's conference my Freshman year:

None - Independent

Sophomore Year: Midwestern City Conference
Butler, Evansville, Loyola, Oklahoma City, Oral Roberts and Xavier, Detroit

When my daughter starts at X in 2014 - Big East!

Wow how time's have changed.

[PMI]

Because of one tournament run (in which they were in the play-in game) and another sweet 16? In the past decade they have been to the tournament 5 times. That just doesn't scream one of the best programs in the past decade to me.

Dude, do you even look at the facts or do you just go off your convenient memory? Let's take a look at VCU over some recent years:


Smart:
2011-12: 29-7 (NCAA Third Round)
2010-11: 28-12 (NCAA Final Four)
2009-10: 27-9 (CBI Champions, yea I know it's the CBI but I think we would take 27 wins any year)

Grant:
2008-09: 24-10 (NCAA First Round)
2007-08: 24-8 (NIT)
2006-07: 28-7 (NCAA Second Round)

Capel:
2005-06: 19-10
2004-05: 19-13 (NIT)
2003-04: 23-8 (NCAA First Round)
2002-03: 18-10

McCarthy:
2001-02: 21-7


I'm not saying they're Kansas, but they win lots of games, get to the postseason, and do it all pretty damned consistently. Compare that to dayton, SLU, Richmond and some of the other teams the Big East is apparently considering over them, and it's not even close. Over the past decade they average over 24.5 wins. They are in a solid untapped market and have great fan support. They clearly had no trouble adjusting to a step up in conference competition this year either. Sorry, but you are way off here. If the other options for the conference included Duke, North Carolina, and Kentucky, then I obviously wouldn't be vouching for VCU, but given what they're up against, they make as good a case as anyone else. Hell, compared to half the teams we're joining they are head and shoulders better!

[PMI]

I have no idea what the fascination is with VCU. They are a solid program which is on a nice recent run. Their Final 4, which is their main accomplishment came in a year where they had to play in the play-in game. They literally barely made teh dance, and won 5 games in a row. That aint enough to merit inclusion.

Lets go back to Capel, Grant and include Smart.

In conference these teams went 133-47 (73.8%)
Out of conference these teams went 106-47 (69.3%)

My general feeling is that this team has played in a true mid-major conference and won alot of games. But I'm just not seeing the sustained success to believe that they will keep it up.

And besides VCU has almost nothing in common with the other C7 +XU+Butler schools. 11 private schools and one public school with 31000 students? Just doesnt fit.

Stick to the like minded private schools.

Well this is all the proof I need. MHettel is on the other side of the argument, so I can't possibly be wrong.

The hole in your theory that all they've done was have success as a true mid-major is that they joined the A10 this year and have been one of the top teams immediately. They have sustained success under several head coaches and have great support for their program. The funny thing about Xavier fans making this argument against them is that it's the same argument we defend ourselves against. We too have had to prove that we could sustain success, coach after coach, with upgrades in competition, etc. You guys are wearing some serious blinders.

[MHettel]

My God, what an incredibly stupid argument. I expect nothing less from my boy MH.

If anyone can turn the idea of making it to the Final Four into a bad thing, it's MH. VCU had to win games to make it to the tournament! Barely made the dance, and damn it they won games to get to the Final Four. That's not successful enough to me! You need to solidly make the tournament for 30 years and never win enough games to go to the Final Four to be merit inclusion into my mind of a conference!

You actually are using their success against them. If anything I have shown you how each time they move conference affiliation they have won. Each time. Just like Xavier. They have also accomplished two things that Xavier has not.

They beat Duke in the Dance.
They made it to the Final Four.

We made our first run to the Elite Eight off of having to beat 4 teams in four days to win our conference tournament.

Never mind that.

Again, I don't care if VCU is in or even discussed. I wish people would simply stop acting like it's a program that doesn't win, or is incapable of sustained winning.

They were certainly a worthy addition of the A10. We are not jumping to the Western Conference of the NBA here guys. It's a great move for us, no doubt, but man, stop killing VCU.

There are MANY programs outside of the Big 6. Some stand out as having had sustained success over some period of time. Xavier, Gonzaga and Butler fall into this category. So does Memphis. Temple probably too, but they did have a down period. But I think these 5 teams make up what is essentially the cream of the non-big 6. Then you have a bunch of teams that have been more up-and-down. squads like UNLV and BYU. These teams are good enough regular enough to keep your awareness high, but have had some peaks and valleys. Teams like Creighton and SLU and St. Joes and Dayton fall into this category as well. And, this is the exact category that I feel VCU is in.

But, whereas the top group is more of an exclusive group of just a select few teams, this second category has considerably more teams. So, if pressed to characterize VCU over the last 20 years, I'd have to say they are somewhere between the 6th and 20th best non-big 6 teams in all of college basketball. You will either agree or disagree with this. If you disagree, then I'd LOVE to hear your rationalle behind how VCU could possibly be considered as successfull as the first group of 5 (XU, BU, Gonz, Temple, Memphis). And if you agree, then I simply dont understand what the hell you are making a big fuss about, cause frankly thats simply NOT that impressive.

They are a decent team. thats it. They are seemingly at a peak right now. They have almost ZERO demographic similarities with the C7.

VCU should team up with LVille, Cincy Memphis and Temple. Thats their best chance to prosper.

[Xavier]

Dude, do you even look at the facts or do you just go off your convenient memory? Let's take a look at VCU over some recent years:

.

What did I say was wrong? They have been in the tournament 5 times the past decade. Thats the facts. Show me where I was wrong about that. You even proved in your post I was right..?

So, what part of going to the Tournament five times in a decade screams one of the best programs in that time? I guess I value tournament apperrances more than most.

[coasterville95]

So the story got out early. This means the price just went up.

Side effect - the old stuffy Big East will look like the bad guys if they hold this up. Such is the like in instant news media.

[MHettel]

A little more research-

Joined the Colonial Athletic Association in 1995-1996. Strangely the same year that XU joined the A10.

In order, they finished: 1st, 3rd, 9th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 6th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5th, 4th, and 2nd.

Look at that 4th place finish near the end. they finished 4th in the CAA over an 18 game schedule behind George Mason, Old Dominion and Hofstra. But they sneaked into the play-in game and strung together 5 wins to make the Final 4. So do we judge them by the 18 game regular season, or by the hot streak they found in the tourney? Sounds like we're split there, but I'm not letting a 5 game winning streak change my opinion of the overall success of this team over the last 20 years.

The BEST case to be made for VCU is to judge them on the latest 10 years. And we're back to 4 first place results in the CAA, and 5 NCAA appearances. Their tourney seeding was 13, 11, 11, 11, 12. So by any measure we know exactly what the committee thought of them. somewhere between #44 and #52 heading into tourney play.

Nice solid team, either at a peak, or possibly can sustain themselves as a nice solid team. If we had a mix of other schools in the new conference like UC and Uconn, then YES they are a good option and would fit nicely.

My main objection is the "fit" with the C7. To put it simply, they just DONT.

They are solid and lots of teams would like their success. But like I said earlier, at best they are somewhere bewteen teh 6th and 20th best no-big 6 team ove rteh last 20 years or so.

[PMI]

What did I say was wrong? They have been in the tournament 5 times the past decade. Thats the facts. Show me where I was wrong about that. You even proved in your post I was right..?

So, what part of going to the Tournament five times in a decade screams one of the best programs in that time? I guess I value tournament apperrances more than most.

So you are saying you value the NCAA tournament more than most, yet their 8 wins in the past 6 years in the tournament don't impress you? Or is it just that getting to the tournament is a sign of success, not what you do in it? You can't have it both ways. In any case, they win almost 25 games a year over their past few coaches, and have been to 5 out of 10 NCAA tournaments in a historically one bid league. All the more, they've been on a pretty damned impressive ascent in terms of program support, recruiting, and other things that contribute to the health of a program over the past decade + now. Please, since you're all about the facts, show me how dayton or SLU or Richmond or any other team being considered has more impressive FACTS than VCU. I'd love to hear your argument. You clearly don't value NCAA tournament success if you want those teams instead.

Again, they aren't Kansas of Duke, but of what we've got to choose from, give me one good argument that they aren't among the absolute best right now. Spoiler: you cannot.

[PMI]

A little more research-

Joined the Colonial Athletic Association in 1995-1996. Strangely the same year that XU joined the A10.

In order, they finished: 1st, 3rd, 9th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 6th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5th, 4th, and 2nd.

Look at that 4th place finish near the end. they finished 4th in the CAA over an 18 game schedule behind George Mason, Old Dominion and Hofstra. But they sneaked into the play-in game and strung together 5 wins to make the Final 4. So do we judge them by the 18 game regular season, or by the hot streak they found in the tourney? Sounds like we're split there, but I'm not letting a 5 game winning streak change my opinion of the overall success of this team over the last 20 years.

The BEST case to be made for VCU is to judge them on the latest 10 years. And we're back to 4 first place results in the CAA, and 5 NCAA appearances. Their tourney seeding was 13, 11, 11, 11, 12. So by any measure we know exactly what the committee thought of them. somewhere between #44 and #52 heading into tourney play.

Nice solid team, either at a peak, or possibly can sustain themselves as a nice solid team. If we had a mix of other schools in the new conference like UC and Uconn, then YES they are a good option and would fit nicely.

My main objection is the "fit" with the C7. To put it simply, they just DONT.

They are solid and lots of teams would like their success. But like I said earlier, at best they are somewhere bewteen teh 6th and 20th best no-big 6 team ove rteh last 20 years or so.

OK, well Butler got on a hot streak to make it all the way to the Finals that year too, and I don't hear you bitching about them getting an invite. It's fair, if you just want other similar programs/universities, to not want VCU, but based on merits, in comparison to the other current alleged candidates, there's no argument.

[xubrew]

I guess I just value tournament success higher than you. (Not even tournament success, really. Just getting to the tournament in VCU's case) Great, 7 tournament apperrances in 23 years. I just don't find that to be too impressive, thats all. If they continue to get to the tournament for a few more years I think they would deserve an invite.

But- no need to argue this right now. Just happy UC is getting kicked out of the Big East and Xavier is getting the invite. XU will be making more money from Bball than UC.

So, you would agree with me in valuing VCU more than Creighton, then??

Everyone looks at VCU's FF team and thinks they're a one hit wonder because that's all they really know about them. The thing is, I don't even think that was their best team. That team was good defensively, good in the post, and mediocre to bad when it came to shooting the ball from the outside. Then they got into the NCAA Tournament and suddenly looked three point shooting team that anyone had ever seen.

Granted, the Final Four run was their signature accomplishment, but I think they've had at least two teams that were better than that. At this point in the season, the FF team wasn't anywhere close to being as good as this year's VCU team is.

The thing is, VCU is trending up. They've been trending up for the past ten years. The programs that have gotten good and stayed good have all improved over time just the way VCU has.

Creighton has not consistently improved. Their tournament success is limited. Even without the FF run, VCU would still have more tournament wins than Creighton in the last ten years. Creighton's last outright MVC championship was in 2001. Creighton has three tournament appearances in the last ten years. Last year was Creighton's first NCAA appearance since 2007 and thier first win since 2001. But, that's really not the biggest reason I believe VCU to be far more stable than they are.

Creighton's success has depended heavily on one standout NBA caliber player player who can shoot from the outside. Kyle Korver, Nate Funk and now Dough McDermott. When they don't have that type of player, which they usually don't, they're not good. They went five years without a tournament appearance. Once McDermott is playing in the NBA, it will likely be a long time before Creighton is a tournament caliber team again.

That is not the trend of programs that have built themselves up and stayed good. VCU has far more stability in that regard. They will be good on a more consistent basis than Creighton will likely be.

[Muskie1000]

Ok Vcu is great or they suck, either way I don't care. This thread is about us going to the Big East and personally everything else is gravy.

[LA Muskie]

Because of one tournament run (in which they were in the play-in game) and another sweet 16? In the past decade they have been to the tournament 5 times. That just doesn't scream one of the best programs in the past decade to me.

You're kidding me, right? 2 Final Fours in a decade is huge for any program. For a non-BCS program, it's practically unprecedented. You can chip away at their runs all you want. But be it talent, luck, or a combination of both (as is almost always the case), they had one hell of a decade.

[LA Muskie]

I have no idea what the fascination is with VCU. They are a solid program which is on a nice recent run. Their Final 4, which is their main accomplishment came in a year where they had to play in the play-in game. They literally barely made teh dance, and won 5 games in a row. That aint enough to merit inclusion.

Lets go back to Capel, Grant and include Smart.

In conference these teams went 133-47 (73.8%)
Out of conference these teams went 106-47 (69.3%)

My general feeling is that this team has played in a true mid-major conference and won alot of games. But I'm just not seeing the sustained success to believe that they will keep it up.

And besides VCU has almost nothing in common with the other C7 +XU+Butler schools. 11 private schools and one public school with 31000 students? Just doesnt fit.

Stick to the like minded private schools.
It's not a "fascination". We obviously feel entitled in these parts. We also seem to feel that just about nobody else is, as if we are the second coming. It's not like this "New Big East" is going to add Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and UCLA. Among the eligible schools, VCU is clearly a step above the rest -- the rest being Creighton, SLU, Dayton and Richmond. They may not make the cut for other reasons, but let's not pretend they don't deserve to be in, based on the basketball merits, if the others do.

[LA Muskie]

Creighton is still a more consistent winner and more committed program than VCU. Same goes for Dayton (commitment wise at least). Creighton will do well in the new league.

I mean, has Gonzaga had that much success? I think its much more difficult to move on in the tourney if you're from a lower conference because of the low seeding. In fact, if you look closer at some a lot of great NCAA runs, many never had to play a team seeded higher or equal until they got to the Final 4 or Elite 8 (KU in '88), and its a pretty good indicator of getting to the Sweet 16 (Gonzaga 2006 & 2009). Luck has a lot to do with it, and always being seeded low is an impediment to that luck.
WTF??? Is this a serious question? Gonzaga probably scores out as the top non-BCS school over the last decade.

[LA Muskie]

OK, well Butler got on a hot streak to make it all the way to the Finals that year too, and I don't hear you bitching about them getting an invite. It's fair, if you just want other similar programs/universities, to not want VCU, but based on merits, in comparison to the other current alleged candidates, there's no argument.
If the decision were based purely on basketball merits, the top 4 schools are fairly obvious to me: Xavier, Gonzaga, Butler and VCU. If you need to add a 5th, it would be Creighton or SLU. To me they are a toss-up quality-wise. And frankly if we got those first 4 I wouldn't care less who the 5th was. Alas, it doesn't look like that's the way this is going to play out for many non-basketball reasons (some of which -- travel for Gonzaga in particular -- make sense; others of which are more judgment calls).

[xubrew]

I now see why Creighton is being considered as strongly as they are. It really doesn't have anything to do with how good they are, or what their potential is....

http://www.creighton.edu/office-of-the-president

http://www.marquette.edu/about/leadership/lannon.shtml

[LA Muskie]

I now see why Creighton is being considered as strongly as they are. It really doesn't have anything to do with how good they are, or what their potential is....

http://www.creighton.edu/office-of-the-president

http://www.marquette.edu/about/leadership/lannon.shtml
I'm confused. You're saying that they are being considered because he's a Jesuit who used to work at Marquette?

[XU '11]

He is CURRENTLY on the board of trustees.

[El Shaqtus]

I can't tell y'all how happy I am for Xavier. Y'all earned this.

I'm hoping we can join you soon.

[Xavier]

So you are saying you value the NCAA tournament more than most, yet their 8 wins in the past 6 years in the tournament don't impress you? Or is it just that getting to the tournament is a sign of success, not what you do in it? You can't have it both ways. In any case, they win almost 25 games a year over their past few coaches, and have been to 5 out of 10 NCAA tournaments in a historically one bid league. All the more, they've been on a pretty damned impressive ascent in terms of program support, recruiting, and other things that contribute to the health of a program over the past decade + now. Please, since you're all about the facts, show me how dayton or SLU or Richmond or any other team being considered has more impressive FACTS than VCU. I'd love to hear your argument. You clearly don't value NCAA tournament success if you want those teams instead.

.

Wait, weren't you the one saying check my facts? I still don't know what you were talking about with that. I don't know who the league will go after, but after what you showed it does appear VCU would be a good choice. I will give you that and would like to see them in (My number one choice would be ND). Still, I don't consider VCU one of the top programs of the past decade. IMO, just making the tournament every other year (a .500 clip) isn't enough to be in that category.

[Xavier]

[QUOTE=xubrew;384057]So, you would agree with me in valuing VCU more than Creighton, then??

QUOTE]

Yeah? I would easily take VCU over Creighton. IMO, the league would be great with the addition of ND and keeping it at 10.

[Xavier]

You're kidding me, right? 2 Final Fours in a decade is huge for any program. For a non-BCS program, it's practically unprecedented. You can chip away at their runs all you want. But be it talent, luck, or a combination of both (as is almost always the case), they had one hell of a decade.

If VCU had two final four runs, I would agree- very impressive and a hell of a decade. But, they had one FF run (still impressive), which was the only time they made it to the second weekend in March. Do you the George Mason has had a hell of a decade? Since 2000 they have been to the tournament four times (one less than VCU) and went to one FF.

[LA Muskie]

If VCU had two final four runs, I would agree- very impressive and a hell of a decade. But, they had one FF run (still impressive), which was the only time they made it to the second weekend in March. Do you the George Mason has had a hell of a decade? Since 2000 they have been to the tournament four times (one less than VCU) and went to one FF.

Sorry, today was a 2 margarita (and a shot) birthday lunch day. I was thinking/talking about Butler. VCU has still been impressive but not on the same scale as Butler. Or us.

[XUFan09]

Sorry, today was a 2 margarita (and a shot) birthday lunch day. I was thinking/talking about Butler. VCU has still been impressive but not on the same scale as Butler. Or us.

Agreed. Which is they didn't get an instant invite like Xavier or Butler. After that, I would say they are the best addition in terms of basketball, though they don't fit well in terms of school type.

[Snipe]

What is the purpose of going to 10 or 12 teams? If you added Xavier and the best other applicant, you would have a fine conference.

[paulxu]

What is the purpose of going to 10 or 12 teams? If you added Xavier and the best other applicant, you would have a fine conference.

Multiple choice answer:
1 - Increase inventory for Fox Sports 1 as it competes with ESPN
2 - Create a larger brand presence for the Big East as it is re-configured (please don't call it the new BE)
3 - Create a new round robin acceptable format of 18 conference games (at 10 teams)
4 - Create a 12 team league with divisions to reduce travel costs and create/maintain rivalry games
5 - Get Snipe upset if it's not a true round robin format (#4)
6 - All of the above

[paulxu]

I read a report this morning that indicated the $ could be as much as $4 million per year.
I'm stupid, so I still think Fox has a very large say in who joins the Big East. If rumors of Creighton are real, than (other than the Marquette connection) it looks like they want state footprints. Which should mean St Louis and Richmond.
At any rate, I like that they have a Tuesday kickoff in New York for their new network.
That should bring pressure to sort it all out by that point. They don't want to announce the new network, with the BE, and not know who is in it.

[xubrew]

What is the purpose of going to 10 or 12 teams? If you added Xavier and the best other applicant, you would have a fine conference.

A nine team league would result in 72 conference games. A twelve team league would result in 96 conference game. More for the networks to choose from.

Other than that, there is no reason at all. Nine is better. Even if twelve gets more money, it won't be THAT much more because we'd be splitting it twelve ways instead of nine.

[PMI]

If the decision were based purely on basketball merits, the top 4 schools are fairly obvious to me: Xavier, Gonzaga, Butler and VCU. If you need to add a 5th, it would be Creighton or SLU. To me they are a toss-up quality-wise. And frankly if we got those first 4 I wouldn't care less who the 5th was. Alas, it doesn't look like that's the way this is going to play out for many non-basketball reasons (some of which -- travel for Gonzaga in particular -- make sense; others of which are more judgment calls).

I agree. If you're using just basketball merits, those are my top four as well. Obviously Gonzaga isn't being considered because they're on the opposite side of the country, but with VCU, it make geographical sense, which is why I'm still surprised that they are seemingly not even being considered. Maybe there is something to the whole small private school thing.


Wait, weren't you the one saying check my facts? I still don't know what you were talking about with that. I don't know who the league will go after, but after what you showed it does appear VCU would be a good choice. I will give you that and would like to see them in (My number one choice would be ND). Still, I don't consider VCU one of the top programs of the past decade. IMO, just making the tournament every other year (a .500 clip) isn't enough to be in that category.

All I'm saying with "check the facts" is that VCU has had a more impressive history (really since they started playing basketball) than some people in this thread were giving them credit for. I would arguer they have been one of the top 25 programs over the past decade, but that is subjective of course. Obviously I wold rather have ND than VCU, and I think anyone would, but I wasn't really considering them in this argument as they could literally join any conference in the world if they wanted to. They could call up David Stern tomorrow and join the Atlantic Division. I was arguing for VCU in relation to all the teams who would 100% join today if offered.


What is the purpose of going to 10 or 12 teams? If you added Xavier and the best other applicant, you would have a fine conference.

I would rather keep it at 9 as it is. I could live with 10, but anything more is excessive to me. I like smaller conferences with no divisions, where you can play everyone twice. I think it's the best way to truly measure a regular season conference champion.

[D-West & PO-Z]

In the original article on ESPN two days ago that ramped up this being a real possibility for next year they mentioned a 10 team conference with every team playing twice for an 18 game conference schedule. Do you guys not think this is a viable option? Seems like people are saying they want 9 so they can have a true round robin. Can this not happen with 10? I know 18 is a lot for a conference schedule but when the conference is pretty god it makes the need for solid OOC games a little less necessary.

[LA Muskie]

In the original article on ESPN two days ago that ramped up this being a real possibility for next year they mentioned a 10 team conference with every team playing twice for an 18 game conference schedule. Do you guys not think this is a viable option? Seems like people are saying they want 9 so they can have a true round robin. Can this not happen with 10? I know 18 is a lot for a conference schedule but when the conference is pretty god it makes the need for solid OOC games a little less necessary.

It can and will be a 10 team, 18 game round robin. We will gladly trade those two OOC games for this.

Edit: Caveat being that if ND waits too long to decide, then opts out, it may be too late to fill the 10th slot.