Temporary X BB

[paulxu]

While we wait (and hope) that Muskie works his magic on our BB thread, I've been watching a wonderful exhibition of team basketball on TV that I would give anything for X to emulate.

Wisconsin is putting on a clinic against the Buckeyes. Will win by 20+.
The entire game has been the best of unselfish, team basketball. Wonderful plays, cuts, back screens.
Guys spending the entire game looking for the right pass rather than their shot...and getting that pass in position for easy baskets.
It makes sense that there is no name on the back of their jerseys. Only on the front.

[Cheesehead]

Bo Ryan is a helluva a coach. He does so much w/ so little. One of the best in his profession.

[JTG]

While we wait (and hope) that Muskie works his magic on our BB thread, I've been watching a wonderful exhibition of team basketball on TV that I would give anything for X to emulate.

Wisconsin is putting on a clinic against the Buckeyes. Will win by 20+.
The entire game has been the best of unselfish, team basketball. Wonderful plays, cuts, back screens.
Guys spending the entire game looking for the right pass rather than their shot...and getting that pass in position for easy baskets.
It makes sense that there is no name on the back of their jerseys. Only on the front.

Yeah, yeah...you need to recruit an entire team of guys that buy into that system for it to work. You can't have an undermanned regular bball team, and coach that system, when you're in a pinch. Wisc. recruits Clysdales to play that system...they win a lot, get to the dance, then dissappear. You can't plow a field with racehorses, and clysdales are not gonna win the Kentucky Derby. It's dull basketball that seldom goes anywhere in March.

[Cheesehead]

• 11 NCAA tournament, 5 Sweet 16s, including 1 Elite Eight

That's not horrible.

[paulxu]

It's dull basketball that seldom goes anywhere in March.

That all may be true. But for my money, it was anything but dull. Their dunks and 3 pters came from crisp/mulitple passes, screens, and old fashioned plays with 3 clear positioned passes to set up an easy basket. It was damn exciting. Just ask Thad Matta.

[SkyWalker]

In my mind, Bo Ryan is a lot like Bobby Knight. He gets players to excel at his systen, but their not necessarily the best players/athletes. It's kinda like when the Bengals drafted David Klingler. If your gonna use the "Run and Shoot" offense, it's a great pick. If your gonna make him a prototypical NFL QB at the time, it's a wasted pick. Bo gets good players that fit his system.

[X-band '01]

I remember the X/Wisconsin slugfest back in 2009 pretty well. At least Xavier was able to wear down Wisconsin in the 2nd half of that one.

[LA Muskie]

Hard not to respect a team that plays like Wisconsin and the coach who coaches them.

[GuyFawkes38]

It seems like some college basketball coaches (Matta and, yes, Calipari) get penalized for recruiting at an awesome level while other coaches like Bo Ryan are looked at with awe because they recruit meh players but produce solid (but far from great) results.

But recruiting is a crucial part to being a great coach. It's much more of a challenge to recruit a top 5 class than what Bo Ryan has done.

[coasterville95]

I thought the reason for that was people are more wiling to believe that Bo Ryan recruits by the rules, whereas some may look at a UK team as The best college basketbal team money can buy" Of course, this season UK is going through its own set of issues with underperformace. I can't imagine the rabid UK fans are sitting still whith that either.

[PMI]

I tend to agree with the Fawker on this one. It's not that Ryan isn't a good coach, and he gets his type of guys in there routinely, but recruiting is the lifeline of your program. Who's to say his system wouldn't work better with a bunch of four and five star guys? I mean, if he's such a great coach, he'd get them to buy into what he wants them to do, right? To me, it always seems like Wisconsin is damn near unstoppable at home, which is where they usually rack up their quality wins. This year is a bit of an exception I think, but if you can win most or all of your home games in a conference like that, you're going to have lots of great resume builders, and the road losses in that league will hardly hurt you at all. In the tournament, they usually have marginal success, and seem to go about as far as they're supposed to most often. Again, it's good coaching and it has kept them solidly where they've been for what seems like forever, but it's hard for me to compare him to the greats (certainly not a legend like Knight) when he's never really taken that next step. I'd be interested to see what his best recruiting class looked like. He's been to one Elite Eight and zero Final Fours in his 11 or 12 years at Wisconsin. It seems to me that he's a good coach with a good system, but the way he does it certainly seems to have a ceiling.

[Cheesehead]

5 Big Ten titles in 11 years is pretty good too. So, he's not a good coach because he doesn't get 5 star recruits? That's ridiculous.

Record at UW:
268-101 (.726)
one of just 40 coaches in NCAA history to reach the 650-win plateau. Ryan's career winning percentage of .761 (651-204) is seventh all-time among coaches with 600 career wins. Among Div. I coaches in the 600-win club, Ryan's win percentage trails only John Wooden, Roy Williams, Jerry Tarkanian and Dean Smith. Wisconsin's success in Big Ten play under Ryan is unmatched. His .710 (132-54) winning percentage in Big Ten games is tied with Ohio State's Thad Matta as the top mark in history. The legendary Bob Knight (.700, 353-151) ranks third on the career ledger.

• Won four national championships (1991, 1995, 1998 and 1999) in D-III UW Platteville

I think I would take Bo as coach.

[paulxu]

There are probably about 330 NCAA division 1 teams that would kill for that record.

[GuyFawkes38]

He's a fine coach. But I would much rather have Matta, Beilein, Izzo, Crean (though I hate him), and even Tubby and Groce.

Unlike Bo, those coaches actually have a shot at winning a national championship because they recruit great players.

Consistency can get boring.

[XUFan09]

Recruiting is a vital part of coaching. Ryan recruits very appropriate players for his system, but they have their limits.

[X-band '01]

He's a fine coach. But I would much rather have Matta, Beilein, Izzo, Crean (though I hate him), and even Tubby and Groce.

Unlike Bo, those coaches actually have a shot at winning a national championship because they recruit great players.

Consistency can get boring.

At least Wisconsin fans know their place - it would be a huge gamble to replace Bo Ryan just to go "past the ceiling" as you so eloquently stated.

They did go to a Final 4, but that was Dick Bennett if I remember correctly.

[PMI]

5 Big Ten titles in 11 years is pretty good too. So, he's not a good coach because he doesn't get 5 star recruits? That's ridiculous.

Record at UW:
268-101 (.726)
one of just 40 coaches in NCAA history to reach the 650-win plateau. Ryan's career winning percentage of .761 (651-204) is seventh all-time among coaches with 600 career wins. Among Div. I coaches in the 600-win club, Ryan's win percentage trails only John Wooden, Roy Williams, Jerry Tarkanian and Dean Smith. Wisconsin's success in Big Ten play under Ryan is unmatched. His .710 (132-54) winning percentage in Big Ten games is tied with Ohio State's Thad Matta as the top mark in history. The legendary Bob Knight (.700, 353-151) ranks third on the career ledger.

• Won four national championships (1991, 1995, 1998 and 1999) in D-III UW Platteville

I think I would take Bo as coach.

Again, I'm not saying he's not a good coach. He clearly is, even though I'm not a huge fan of him personally. Those are very impressive accomplishments, although to be fair he's only won the Big Ten regular season title three times (two outright) and the tournament twice, none of which he's done since 2008, so I'm not sure where you get the 5 Big Ten titles in 11 years. Also, of those 650+ wins, only 316 of them came at the D1 level. I'm not saying it's not a very impressive accomplishment, but I also think it's important to keep it in perspective before we start comparing him to legends like Dean Smith or John Wooden.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how you concluded that anyone would say he isn't a good coach because he doesn't get 5 star recruits, but I think recruiting is more than 50% of what it takes to run the ship at a big time program, which Wisconsin is. Now he gets a lot of good players who work within the system he runs, so he's doing something right. I just think, barring a highly unlikely circumstance, it takes a higher level of recruiting to truly compete for the whole thing. Who's the best player he's ever had? The marginal NBA journeyman Devin Harris? All I'm arguing is that it isn't fair to give him more credit for doing "more with less" when one of, if not THE main responsibility of a head coach is to recruit great players. Tom Izzo is a guy I would point to in the same conference who has been able to excel in both departments. He almost always has great classes, but he also seems to have his teams exceed peoples' expectations far more often than not. When you have really talented teams and you figure out how to get them to jell, it's no wonder he goes to the Final Four every other year. I think you need to be highly effective in both recruiting and the other aspects of coaching to be truly elite, and I personally wouldn't put Ryan in that category.

[Cheesehead]

I think his peers think differently and all of this stuff all came from his bio on UW's website. So if it's wrong, blame them. He is certainly one of the top 10 coaches in the country. UW did get to Final 4 but it was w/ Bennett, also a heckuva coach.

Presiding over what is arguably the most successful 11-year stretch in UW history, Ryan's teams own:
• A .726 win pct. (268-101) overall
• A .710 win pct. (132-54) in Big Ten play
• A .917 win pct. (166-15) at home
• 5 Big Ten titles
• The 8 winningest seasons in UW history
• 5 players with AP All-America recognition
• 11 NCAA tournament, 5 Sweet 16s, including 1 Elite Eight
During his tenure in Madison, Ryan has coached seven players that have reached the NBA and numerous others who have played professionally overseas or in the NBA Development League.

I am done now. For the record, I love Izzo. Crean is a douche and I am not sure everything is clean there.

[PMI]

I think his peers think differently and all of this stuff all came from his bio on UW's website. So if it's wrong, blame them. He is certainly one of the top 10 coaches in the country. UW did get to Final 4 but it was w/ Bennett, also a heckuva coach.

Presiding over what is arguably the most successful 11-year stretch in UW history, Ryan's teams own:
• A .726 win pct. (268-101) overall
• A .710 win pct. (132-54) in Big Ten play
• A .917 win pct. (166-15) at home
• 5 Big Ten titles
• The 8 winningest seasons in UW history
• 5 players with AP All-America recognition
• 11 NCAA tournament, 5 Sweet 16s, including 1 Elite Eight
During his tenure in Madison, Ryan has coached seven players that have reached the NBA and numerous others who have played professionally overseas or in the NBA Development League.

I am done now. For the record, I love Izzo. Crean is a douche and I am not sure everything is clean there.

I totally agree with you, especially the last part. However, I never really like to read too much into how coaches' peers feel/talk about them. It's such a fraternity in many respects and there are plenty of coaches with outstanding reputations among the other coaches who are average at best. Phil Martelli and Bruce Weber come to mind, but there are lots more. Of course, Bo Ryan is far better than average by any stretch. I probably wouldn't go as far as top 10 in the country, but that argument could certainly be made.

[JTG]

I totally agree with you, especially the last part. However, I never really like to read too much into how coaches' peers feel/talk about them. It's such a fraternity in many respects and there are plenty of coaches with outstanding reputations among the other coaches who are average at best. Phil Martelli and Bruce Weber come to mind, but there are lots more. Of course, Bo Ryan is far better than average by any stretch. I probably wouldn't go as far as top 10 in the country, but that argument could certainly be made.

For my money Martelli is pretty good...considering he is recruiting to maybe the 5th best option in Philly and has a high school gym to play in. Now Seth Greenberg is Mr. Overrated...the guy never did anything..and is loved by the media..and coaches..probably because coaches knew he was no threat to beat them

[GoMuskies]

Bruce Weber seems to be doing a fabulous job this year. Didn't expect K-State to be nearly this good.

[XUFan09]

For my money Martelli is pretty good...considering he is recruiting to maybe the 5th best option in Philly and has a high school gym to play in. Now Seth Greenberg is Mr. Overrated...the guy never did anything..and is loved by the media..and coaches..probably because coaches knew he was no threat to beat them

I hate that Seth Greenberg actually gets to give his opinion on ESPN now. It's especially painful when it comes to who's-in-who's-out for the tournament, as he never seemed to have a good understanding of what teams needed to do for that...Hence, the many failed bubble teams.

[Masterofreality]

I hate that Seth Greenberg actually gets to give his opinion on ESPN now. It's especially painful when it comes to who's-in-who's-out for the tournament, as he never seemed to have a good understanding of what teams needed to do for that...Hence, the many failed bubble teams.

Seth certainly has tons of knowledge of what it takes to miss the Tournament.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Bo Ryan is a really good coach but he's a complete jackass and his teams play some of the worst looking basketball in the country. Id rather gauge out my eyes that have to watch him coach Xavier.

[XUFan09]

Seth certainly has tons of knowledge of what it takes to miss the Tournament.

Lol yeah. The problem is he doesn't seem to understand why he didn't get an invite :-P

[PMI]

For my money Martelli is pretty good...considering he is recruiting to maybe the 5th best option in Philly and has a high school gym to play in. Now Seth Greenberg is Mr. Overrated...the guy never did anything..and is loved by the media..and coaches..probably because coaches knew he was no threat to beat them

I know a lot of SJU fans who would disagree with you on Martelli. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he has been spectacularly mediocre for a long time. And we can argue about any recruiting limitations he may have until the dayton cheerleaders come home, but he had the roster that was picked to win the A10 this year and they're a game up on missing the A10 tournament right now. I really don't think recruiting has been the issue for Martelli. Likable guy, mediocre coach in my opinion.


Bruce Weber seems to be doing a fabulous job this year. Didn't expect K-State to be nearly this good.

He also did a fabulous job when he first got to Illinois... and then he got his own guys in. If Weber has K-State at a ugh level in a couple of years, I'll probably have to retract, but as of now, he's been pretty mediocre to me on the whole.

For what it's worth, I'd say most coaches are mediocre, and a ton of them have good reputations in their profession. It's the nature of the business I suppose. There are lots more examples to go with those ones, Greenberg, etc.

[paulxu]

Bo Ryan is a really good coach but he's a complete jackass and his teams play some of the worst looking basketball in the country. Id rather gauge out my eyes that have to watch him coach Xavier.

I don't know crap about him personally. And he could be a complete jackass. But his basketball stuff might work for us.
All you need to know is that we haven't won one game, not a single one, when we had single digits in assists.

[LA Muskie]

I don't know crap about him personally. And he could be a complete jackass. But his basketball stuff might work for us.
All you need to know is that we haven't won one game, not a single one, when we had single digits in assists.

I have to imagine very few teams succeed with low assist numbers. And I'm fairly confident our offense is not predicated on NOT passing the ball. Our problem this year is talent and execution not system.

[paulxu]

And I'm fairly confident our offense is not predicated on NOT passing the ball.

I wish I could say that I share your optimism. We lead the conference in FG %. We are 15th in Assists.
Can you imagine if we led the league in both?

[LA Muskie]

I wish I could say that I share your optimism. We lead the conference in FG %. We are 15th in Assists.
Can you imagine if we led the league in both?

I can. We would be much, much better.

[PMI]

I wish I could say that I share your optimism. We lead the conference in FG %. We are 15th in Assists.
Can you imagine if we led the league in both?

Actually, we are tied for 7th in the conference for FG%, which is actually even better than I thought we were, and are second to last in assists. I think one of the explanations for why we are better from the field than in assists is that we have exactly one guy who can consistently create his own shot, who is also the best passer on the team, and he is far from the world's best jump shooter. I suppose you could argue Taylor can create too, but he's also the only guy on the team that draws doubles. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that our issues are personnel ones, plain and simple.

[paulxu]

Actually, we are tied for 7th in the conference for FG%, which is actually even better than I thought we were,

I was using this stat for my info. Maybe I need a different site:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/stats/fg?season=2012-2013&conf=a-10&games=&stat=fg_pct&stat_type=

[PMI]

I was using this stat for my info. Maybe I need a different site:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/stats/fg?season=2012-2013&conf=a-10&games=&stat=fg_pct&stat_type=

Actually I think you're right. I believe I was using the adjusted FG%. That's shocking to me that we shoot better than the rest of the league. I guess we must rely on far less outside shots. In any case, I think just by watching our offense try to work, it's apparent that outside of Semaj and Travis, it's been a major issue with personnel/consistency.