Catholic 7 News

[paulxu]

I think the regular thread for this is in never-land with BB.
Here's an article from Feinstein. Would still like to see Creighton for Dayton, but it sounds like the distance for other sports is an impediment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/catholic-7-schools-including-georgetown-charting-a-new-yet-familiar-path/2013/02/16/f1eaa870-7876-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html

[Xaveriana]

I heard at Dana's (always reliable for Xavier Basketball scoop) that the conference will be called the "Big Catholic Conference" (or BCC). So, all schools must be catholic. The new commissioner will be retired Pope Benedict XVI. The last point seems very plausible given his recent retirement.

Write it down as fact. :rolleyes:

No one thought much about the photo below taken at the Georgetown/Cincinnati game on Friday, but now it makes sense.

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Click for Larger Image

[BMoreX]

No way Siena is invited.

[joe titan]

Love the idea that if Butler is not interested then the Detroit Titans are the next best choice

[Masterofreality]

Butler IS interested, and will be in.

And Siena is way off the radar. Richmond may be a potential. They have a football relationship with Villanova.

[coasterville95]

I think the Georgetown/Butler dog show photo should make it clear that Butler is interested.

I wonder if any of our basketball staff will have an outreach with Providence this week.

[joe titan]

"Butler IS interested, and will be in." MOR; it's more like Butler is salivating, but a guy can fantasize a bit, OK ?

Would look for Detroit to see if the A-10 could see its way as the Horizon without Butler is really not very appealing

The Sienna thing may be off the radar but not so far fetched. Upstate NY is a viable market in every sense and the new conference does not need distraction from Niagara Canisius or the Bonnies for later admission. Frankly from marketing/TV sense, rather have Sienna than Seton Hall as the third NYC franchise.

[xudash]

This deal is about building a NATIONAL conference brand out of the gate.

It can't afford to bring in schools that don't have national cache - Dayton fails at that, but probably is deemed to have potential for getting there.

We're headed towards interesting times, and good times for X.

[SixFig]

Detroit and/or Siena would be a bad choice, though not devastating. Neither brings a national or even regional cache. Michigan/Michigan State dominate the Detroit scene and Syracuse is more popular in Albany than Siena (Siena's campus is in Loudonville which would be like if Xavier was in Indian Hill or Milford and played at US Bank Arena). Creighton or VCU would be better choices.

[xavierj]

Siena does draw decent although they play in a big arena. They could probably draw 10k a game and recruit well in this new league. Not a name but they have potential. I would rather have them then Dayton. Detroit on the other hand it does not seem anyone cares about them as they struggle to draw fans and will suck when Mccallum leaves. I would say no way on them.

[Title_BU]

The article just seemed implausible throughout so I checked what the Georgetown people had to say about it. Evidently, Feinstein is a clown and you can't really take any of it seriously.

I'm just chocking the whole thing up as nonsense myself

[xudash]

The article just seemed implausible throughout so I checked what the Georgetown people had to say about it. Evidently, Feinstein is a clown and you can't really take any of it seriously.

I'm just chocking the whole thing up as nonsense myself

If I understand it correctly, Feinstein is a Dukie. He's focused a lot of his attention historically on the ACC.

He lost me at Seinna as well. Nothing against that school, I just don't think it belongs in this mix. I also have to wonder about pulling in a 66 year old commish.

[MD Muskie]

while not a huge fan of Feinstein, I would take his word for most of this. He has great relationships all across the DC and has the connections to know what the Georgetown President is looking for in regards to building this new conference.

[BMoreX]

No need to worry:


Quote:
“It’s always flattering when the college’s name is put in a group of schools like that,” Siena athletic director John D’Argenio said today while attending the women’s basketball game. “But it’s just somebody that wrote an article and speculates.”

D’Argenio said Siena hasn’t been contacted by representatives from any of the Catholic 7 schools.

“Nobody’s made any outreaches or overtures, and I don’t know who they’ve made outreaches or overtures to,” D’Argenio said. “But I know it’s not us.”
http://blog.timesunion.com/collegesp...-invite/15440/

[OTRMUSKIE]

I don't see why Gonzaga, st Mary's and Creighton can't join the league. Could they just join for men's basketball only? I also don't want Dayton in this league. They bring nothing to the table except a sub 100 RPI and tons of NIT experience. Why do we keep playing them twice anyway? It doesn't benefit Xavier to go up to UD and lose. It only hurts Xavier since UD always sucks. If Dayton wants to keep playing X then they can come here.

[LA Muskie]

I don't see why Gonzaga, st Mary's and Creighton can't join the league. Could they just join for men's basketball only? I also don't want Dayton in this league. They bring nothing to the table except a sub 100 RPI and tons of NIT experience. Why do we keep playing them twice anyway? It doesn't benefit Xavier to go up to UD and lose. It only hurts Xavier since UD always sucks. If Dayton wants to keep playing X then they can come here.

My now don't we sound elitist? Apparently success has a very short memory...

[xsteve1]

I don't see why Gonzaga, st Mary's and Creighton can't join the league. Could they just join for men's basketball only? I also don't want Dayton in this league. They bring nothing to the table except a sub 100 RPI and tons of NIT experience. Why do we keep playing them twice anyway? It doesn't benefit Xavier to go up to UD and lose. It only hurts Xavier since UD always sucks. If Dayton wants to keep playing X then they can come here.

Why do we play them twice every year? Hopefully if UD joins us in the new league that's not the case. I'd much rather play Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's or Nova twice every year.

[LA Muskie]

Why do we play them twice every year? Hopefully if UD joins us in the new league that's not the case. I'd much rather play Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's or Nova twice every year.

Well yes. Obviously. Ain't going to happen but I agree that would be much better.

[waggy]

St. Mary's is no different than San Diego, Santa Clara, et al. In fact they aren't even as desirable - they just currently have a staff with Aussie connections.

[Stephen FriarFan]

The Feinstein story is a boat load of BS.. Sienna? Sienna is not going to happen, this is like someone said Replace SU with another Upstate NY. School. The other part that is wrong saying that the Georgetown president is calling the shots because none of the other Presidents wanted to. First off all these guys have egos and so far have worked as a group..This story is mostly fiction..

[Masterofreality]

The Feinstein story is a boat load of BS.. Sienna? Sienna is not going to happen, this is like someone said Replace SU with another Upstate NY. School. The other part that is wrong saying that the Georgetown president is calling the shots because none of the other Presidents wanted to. First off all these guys have egos and so far have worked as a group..This story is mostly fiction..

Good. I really hope the part about the dump being in is fiction- times 5.

[xubrew]

Feinstein isn't a bad author.

He's just that, though. An author. I don't consider him to be any sort of analyst or reporter. I don't think he has what a reporter would call "sources."

Siena?? Detroit??

As I understand it, the term "Catholic Seven" is nothing more than media short hand. The "Catholic Seven" actually don't like being called the "Catholic Seven." They'd rather be called the "Basketball Seven." The desire is a basketball centric conference, not a Catholic-centric conference. If you're being basketball centric, Siena and Detroit make no sense at all. Fran McCaffery left Siena, and they've been a middle of the road MAAC team ever since. Detroit, while talented, never seens to play up to their celiing (with the exeption of the conference tourney last year).

If the league is going to be basketball centric, then VCU and Butler make the most sense along with Xavier.

I like Creighton, but they've never been to a Sweet Sixteen, last year was their first NCAA apperance since 2007, and their first win in over ten years. Even this year, with all their talent, they're slipping down the MVC standings, and once they lose that talent, they'll likely be an NIT team more often than not.

[MD Muskie]

The Feinstein story is a boat load of BS.. Sienna? Sienna is not going to happen, this is like someone said Replace SU with another Upstate NY. School. The other part that is wrong saying that the Georgetown president is calling the shots because none of the other Presidents wanted to. First off all these guys have egos and so far have worked as a group..This story is mostly fiction..

I highly doubt that he or any editor is going to put an article like this into one of the remaining reputable newspapers in the country. No one at the WaPost is going to risk a career with mostly false BS information. This is the WaPost, not the Albany Times Union Intelligencer Daily FORUM trying to get readership.

Now while I will say that Feinstein probably got a load of BS from his contacts because thats probably what they were given, there is still truth this story.

[xudash]

The Feinstein story is a boat load of BS.. Sienna? Sienna is not going to happen, this is like someone said Replace SU with another Upstate NY. School. The other part that is wrong saying that the Georgetown president is calling the shots because none of the other Presidents wanted to. First off all these guys have egos and so far have worked as a group..This story is mostly fiction..

That made absolutely no sense to me, either.

Can you imagine a school President of one of these schools being that indifferent about all this. Can you imagine the phone call between him (her) and the B0T Chairman after the Chairman finds out about such a casual attitude about something involving a lot of money and (marketing/brand) exposure.

[paulxu]

I like Creighton, but they've never been to a Sweet Sixteen, last year was their first NCAA apperance since 2007, and their first win in over ten years. Even this year, with all their talent, they're slipping down the MVC standings, and once they lose that talent, they'll likely be an NIT team more often than not.

Are you talking about Creighton...or Dayton?

[DC Muskie]

I highly doubt that he or any editor is going to put an article like this into one of the remaining reputable newspapers in the country. No one at the WaPost is going to risk a career with mostly false BS information. This is the WaPost, not the Albany Times Union Intelligencer Daily FORUM trying to get readership.

Now while I will say that Feinstein probably got a load of BS from his contacts because thats probably what they were given, there is still truth this story.

You are kidding right?

The Post still has to sell papers. Feinstein pretty much has free reign to write whatever he wants. If the league doesn't turn out the way he reported, no one is really going to care.

I just hope there is no truth to the Georgetown President is running things.

[Masterofreality]

I just hope there is no truth to the Georgetown President is running things.

The same guy who, reportedly, was one of the leading opponents of the big TV deal that the Big East turned down from the four letter network.

[GoMuskies]

The same guy who, reportedly, was one of the leading opponents of the big TV deal that the Big East turned down from the four letter network.

Wouldn't that be a feather in his cap? Georgetown is going to end up far better off for turning down that deal, no?

[muskienick]

If the league doesn't turn out the way he reported, no one is really going to care.

That's very much like Joe Lunardi's NCAA brackets. He seems to create a new one every 3-4 days or so with his final one coming out just before the selection day. When he gets 60% of the top 32 seeds correct, people want to canonize the guy. That's either an 'F' or 'D-' for amateurs attending school at any level!

[Masterofreality]

Wouldn't that be a feather in his cap? Georgetown is going to end up far better off for turning down that deal, no?

Actually, if the Fox deal is accurate, the basketball schools will get the same, the football schools will get a lot less, and the league is basically broken.

Feather in the cap? Uh, I guess?

[GoMuskies]

Actually, if the Fox deal is accurate, the basketball schools will get the same, the football schools will get a lot less, and the league is basically broken.

Feather in the cap? Uh, I guess?

I've read that the basketball schools will do better under the Fox deal. Could be wrong. The football schools who are worth anything will all get substantially more than they would have under the ESPN deal, and the league was already coming apart at the seams.

All in all, I don't think the Georgetown or Pitt guys who led the charge on that would do anything differently if you gave them the chance to go back and do it all over again.

[Stephen FriarFan]

I've read that the basketball schools will do better under the Fox deal. Could be wrong. The football schools who are worth anything will all get substantially more than they would have under the ESPN deal, and the league was already coming apart at the seams.

All in all, I don't think the Georgetown or Pitt guys who led the charge on that would do anything differently if you gave them the chance to go back and do it all over again.

The money is about the same, C7 schools would get about 3mill if the old contract went through. The question would be ,who would have left,and could the old C7 survive being pulled along with the football schools that were there.

[Masterofreality]

I've read that the basketball schools will do better under the Fox deal. Could be wrong. The football schools who are worth anything will all get substantially more than they would have under the ESPN deal, and the league was already coming apart at the seams.

All in all, I don't think the Georgetown or Pitt guys who led the charge on that would do anything differently if you gave them the chance to go back and do it all over again.


The money is about the same, C7 schools would get about 3mill if the old contract went through. The question would be ,who would have left,and could the old C7 survive being pulled along with the football schools that were there.

As to the football guys.....

http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/ap-source-big-east-moving-nbc-sports-net-deal

...less than they are getting from ESPN now......but who the hell cares about them?

[GoMuskies]

Well, UC, USF and UConn are the only football guys left around that would have been part of that original deal. And those programs clearly aren't worth anything. Otherwise, they wouldn't be stuck in the Big East while anyone worth a damn has moved on.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Feinstein isn't a bad author.



As I understand it, the term "Catholic Seven" is nothing more than media short hand. The "Catholic Seven" actually don't like being called the "Catholic Seven." They'd rather be called the "Basketball Seven." The desire is a basketball centric conference, not a Catholic-centric conference.

If the league is going to be basketball centric, then VCU and Butler make the most sense along with Xavier.

I like Creighton, but they've never been to a Sweet Sixteen, last year was their first NCAA apperance since 2007, and their first win in over ten years. Even this year, with all their talent, they're slipping down the MVC standings, and once they lose that talent, they'll likely be an NIT team more often than not.

This is correct none of the Presidents like the C7 they use Basketball Only or B7...

[paulxu]

I know it's way too early to be getting excited about this new conference possibility.
But damn, it's gonna be a lot of fun if/when it happens.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2013/02/16/Catholic-7-Sweeps-Big-East-Foes

[Title_BU]

Was told by someone I don't doubt yesterday evening that it will be Xavier, Butler, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. FWIW

[coasterville95]

If that is true, and there is no reason to think it isn't because all those schools have been in the discussions before, even Richmond, then the A-10 may as well just fold up with Charlotte and Temple also leaving Add in UMass to Big East, and there won't be a whole lot left.

Dusquene, LaSalle, St Joe, St Bonnie, Fordham, Rhode Island, Geo. Washington, VCU. There is a conference for you.

If all that really does occur, I truly feel awful for VCU. I mean they finally think they made the jump to a good conference and then they look around holding the bag going "Where did everybody go?" In fact, I'd rather they took VCU and left Richmond behind. At least we would know who to pass the Flagship banners to.

So, we have heard all kinds of runmors about who is in/isn't in the C7 confernece. But I haven't heard a peep about who the A10 might tap to backfill their conference. All we have heard is that they have been reviewing multiple potential scenarios.

[xudash]

Was told by someone I don't doubt yesterday evening that it will be Xavier, Butler, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. FWIW

It sounds like it's a combination of:

1. Creighton perceived to be too far for Olympic Sports.

2. Creighton v. Dayton or Creighton v. SLU at the margin isn't enough to get Creighton over the hump versus those schools.

3. The TV models somehow do support Dayton's inclusion in this gig, or they don't materially detract from having Dayton in it.

4. The B7 can look less onerous, in one regard, by only raiding a single conference for its needs.

5. The B7 can annihilate the A10 as a competing conference by carving out of it to this extent.

6. Richmond, desired by Georgetown and Villanova, provides true east/west balance in league composition.


I don't doubt your source, either.

[GoMuskies]

I like the idea of adding another non-Catholic in Richmond to go along with Butler. I would prefer VCU to Richmond (or Dayton), but I'm fine either way so long as we're in the league and it happens as soon as possible.

[LA Muskie]

It sounds like it's a combination of:

1. Creighton perceived to be too far for Olympic Sports.
2. Creighton v. Dayton or Creighton v. SLU at the margin isn't enough to get Creighton over the hump versus those schools.
3. The TV models somehow do support Dayton's inclusion in this gig, or they don't materially detract from having Dayton in it.
4. The B7 can look less onerous, in one regard, by only raiding a single conference for its needs.
5. The B7 can annihilate the A10 as a competing conference by carving out of it to this extent.
6. Richmond, desired by Georgetown and Villanova, provides true east/west balance in league composition.

I don't doubt your source, either.
I don't think it's just perception. Omaha is about 450 miles from SLU, nearly 500 miles from DePaul, and over 500 miles from Milwaukee. And those would be the CLOSEST conference schools.

I also don't think killing the A-10 is a goal. Frankly I don't think killing any conference is a goal in any of this. There certainly is a fight to make the most money (and hence be construed as "on top"), but I truly believe that if you polled most of those involved, they are far from comfortable with the carnage that this will all leave. There may be a few who have some sort of Machievellian pride, but I believe those folks would be few and far between.

As for the suggested 5, I think this goes to show why 12 really is a bad number if you are looking for goodwill, success, and institutions with like-minded athletic philosophies and investment. At least 2 of those simply don't belong (Dayton and Richmond). The third (SLU) is a distant third. That said, if they truly wanted to make the best possible 12-member basketball conference that retains all of the "Catholic 7", they would find a way of adding VCU and Gonzaga, while understanding that both are far from perfect fits for various reasons.

[BMoreX]

Gimme Gonzaga. Let them put some of their non-revenue sports (the ones that would have to make a ton of roadtrips: baseball soccer volleyball etc.) in the WAC. Let both their basketballs and the tournament sports that don't need a lot of travel (golf, XC, etc.) play in the C7.

[xudash]

I don't think it's just perception. Omaha is about 450 miles from SLU, nearly 500 miles from DePaul, and over 500 miles from Milwaukee. And those would be the CLOSEST conference schools.

I also don't think killing the A-10 is a goal. Frankly I don't think killing any conference is a goal in any of this. There certainly is a fight to make the most money (and hence be construed as "on top"), but I truly believe that if you polled most of those involved, they are far from comfortable with the carnage that this will all leave. There may be a few who have some sort of Machievellian pride, but I believe those folks would be few and far between.

As for the suggested 5, I think this goes to show why 12 really is a bad number if you are looking for goodwill, success, and institutions with like-minded athletic philosophies and investment. At least 2 of those simply don't belong (Dayton and Richmond). The third (SLU) is a distant third. That said, if they truly wanted to make the best possible 12-member basketball conference that retains all of the "Catholic 7", they would find a way of adding VCU and Gonzaga, while understanding that both are far from perfect fits for various reasons.

Semantics on Creighton: they considered the distances and determined it to be too far for conference alignment purposes. They may have reached that conclusion at the point of also determining that a national footprint, involving Gonzaga, wasn't going to be in the cards initially, if ever.

Otherwise, during those very quiet meetings in closed conference rooms, you have to believe that someone made a point about ensuring that the A10 will not present any problems competitively speaking for the new conference. I did not refer to it as a "goal"; you did. It would simply become a by-product of the new league's actions. The B7 will go after 5 schools in the A10 because the B7 needs those schools for its plans. I think they may be more comfortable than you believe. All this is about getting this really right this time around. We're in ultimate positioning mode in this deal. No one should feel sad for a LaSalle that has made itself deadwood for over two decades now.

[JTG]

I don't think it's just perception. Omaha is about 450 miles from SLU, nearly 500 miles from DePaul, and over 500 miles from Milwaukee. And those would be the CLOSEST conference schools.

I also don't think killing the A-10 is a goal. Frankly I don't think killing any conference is a goal in any of this. There certainly is a fight to make the most money (and hence be construed as "on top"), but I truly believe that if you polled most of those involved, they are far from comfortable with the carnage that this will all leave. There may be a few who have some sort of Machievellian pride, but I believe those folks would be few and far between.

As for the suggested 5, I think this goes to show why 12 really is a bad number if you are looking for goodwill, success, and institutions with like-minded athletic philosophies and investment. At least 2 of those simply don't belong (Dayton and Richmond). The third (SLU) is a distant third. That said, if they truly wanted to make the best possible 12-member basketball conference that retains all of the "Catholic 7", they would find a way of adding VCU and Gonzaga, while understanding that both are far from perfect fits for various reasons.

You just stated how far Creighton was from the next nearest western school, now you suggest Gonzaga from BFE Spokane. Dayton and Richmond belong as much as Seton Hall and DePaul.

[LA Muskie]

You just stated how far Creighton was from the next nearest western school, now you suggest Gonzaga from BFE Spokane. Dayton and Richmond belong as much as Seton Hall and DePaul.
I didn't say it was too far. Someone else did. I just pointed out the distances that would justify that decision.

In my mind, it's an either/or situation:

If they want to stay regional they should stop at 9 --- 10 at the most. Dayton and Richmond don't belong. I could live with SLU but I don't think they'll pay for themselves, if you know what I mean. Seton Hall and DePaul belong because they are in the legacy club. You just have to accept that. It's not negotiable. But that doesn't mean we need to invite more of them.

On the other hand, if the conference is serious about being the best basketball-centric conference in the country, they find a way -- any way -- to add VCU and Gonzaga. Those two schools in particular have way too much value on the basketball side of the ledger not to find a way.

[throwbackmuskie]

Just a thought here, but I see the acc being depleted soon, fsu,Clemson to big 12, gt unc to big ten. Maybe the c7 convince Norte dame to leave their non football sports in this new conference?

Just please keep udump out.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Just a thought here, but I see the acc being depleted soon, fsu,Clemson to big 12, gt unc to big ten. Maybe the c7 convince Norte dame to leave their non football sports in this new conference?

Just please keep udump out.

All this schools on the move thing is bad for the C7. It only works as a distraction and a delay. Just look at the Hoya board, very time there is ACC talk they hope things will shift enough that they could get an invite. That sort of talk slows things down. So we should hope things hold tight till the new conference is set.

[Juice]

All this schools on the move thing is bad for the C7. It only works as a distraction and a delay. Just look at the Hoya board, very time there is ACC talk they hope things will shift enough that they could get an invite. That sort of talk slows things down. So we should hope things hold tight till the new conference is set.

Wouldn't that then put them back in a conference where football rules? Everyone knows that in the near future the ACC will look like pretty similar to the current Big East. I just don't know why they would want to go back to that.

[throwbackmuskie]

My point is the ACC is going to be gone soon. Big 12 needs 4 (FSU,Clemson, Louisville and for argument sake Pitt). Big 10 needs two more (GT and say UVA). SEC will take 2 more as well (UNC and VT). That would leave Duke, NCST, Wake, BC, Syracuse. If I were the C7 I would only expand to 10 at the present time, Xavier, Butler and Richmond/VCU. See how it shakes out and keep a strong line open to Notre Dame. When the ACC folds ND's best bet to stay how they want would to join the C7. At that point you talk to Creighton or STL.

[LA Muskie]

My point is the ACC is going to be gone soon. Big 12 needs 4 (FSU,Clemson, Louisville and for argument sake Pitt). Big 10 needs two more (GT and say UVA). SEC will take 2 more as well (UNC and VT). That would leave Duke, NCST, Wake, BC, Syracuse. If I were the C7 I would only expand to 10 at the present time, Xavier, Butler and Richmond/VCU. See how it shakes out and keep a strong line open to Notre Dame. When the ACC folds ND's best bet to stay how they want would to join the C7. At that point you talk to Creighton or STL.

ND to C7 is a pipe dream. But it is understandable. Nearly every major conference in the country has the same pipe dream.

[throwbackmuskie]

Maybe, but what other option would they have? the new offshoot conference filled with UC,UCONN, USF, Wake, BC?

[More Cowbell]

ND to C7 is a pipe dream. But it is understandable. Nearly every major conference in the country has the same pipe dream.

I think that it is more likely than ND staying with the ACC if half the conference leaves.

[MHettel]

ND to C7 is a pipe dream. But it is understandable. Nearly every major conference in the country has the same pipe dream.

Why is it a pipe dream? because ND would have nothing in common with the C7 schools? because they wouldnt be considered the crown jewel that could drive an even higher TV deal for the basketball conference while creating leverage for their football TV deal by positioning Fox as a bidder against NBC? Because the conference could reasonably expand further West giving it a national footprint that included Gonzaga and St. Mary's and a few others?

16 teams. C7,XU, Dayton, SLU, Creighton, Richmond, Gonzaga, St. Mary, ND, plus one more potentially Detroit or maybe Seattle U to get some more balance out West.

And by the way, they would NEVER feel pressure related to their football independence.

ND wouldnt be interested in that?

[danaandvictory]

I guess it's an improvement that Hettel now wants Detroit Mercy, Seattle, and St. Mary's in Xavier's conference, rather than Xavier being independent.

[Juice]

I guess it's an improvement that Hettel now wants Detroit Mercy, Seattle, and St. Mary's in Xavier's conference, rather than Xavier being independent.

Whoa whoa whoa, but what about Duquesne and the Pittsburgh market?

[xudash]

Why is it a pipe dream? because ND would have nothing in common with the C7 schools? because they wouldnt be considered the crown jewel that could drive an even higher TV deal for the basketball conference while creating leverage for their football TV deal by positioning Fox as a bidder against NBC? Because the conference could reasonably expand further West giving it a national footprint that included Gonzaga and St. Mary's and a few others?

16 teams. C7,XU, Dayton, SLU, Creighton, Richmond, Gonzaga, St. Mary, ND, plus one more potentially Detroit or maybe Seattle U to get some more balance out West.

And by the way, they would NEVER feel pressure related to their football independence.

ND wouldnt be interested in that?

I'm sure the B7 and Xavier would love to have ND in the mix, but ND has their Olympic Sports to solve as well. The B7+++ doesn't cut it for them for that issue.

If it happens, then great, but ND is doing everything it can to remain independent in football while attaching its other sports to a Big4/ACC conference arrangement.

[LA Muskie]

I think that it is more likely than ND staying with the ACC if half the conference leaves.
I think you are wrong. That conference may still have the likes of Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Boston College and Wake Forest, plus UConn, UC and possibly Temple.

If they bolt the ACC (which I still believe is a distinct possibility) it will be for a deal with the Big 4. Most likely the BiG. I understand all the optimism about the C7 conference, but let's not get carried away. It's better for us. But ND will almost certainly have better options, even with just its Olympic sports.

[LA Muskie]

Why is it a pipe dream? because ND would have nothing in common with the C7 schools? because they wouldnt be considered the crown jewel that could drive an even higher TV deal for the basketball conference while creating leverage for their football TV deal by positioning Fox as a bidder against NBC? Because the conference could reasonably expand further West giving it a national footprint that included Gonzaga and St. Mary's and a few others?

16 teams. C7,XU, Dayton, SLU, Creighton, Richmond, Gonzaga, St. Mary, ND, plus one more potentially Detroit or maybe Seattle U to get some more balance out West.

And by the way, they would NEVER feel pressure related to their football independence.

ND wouldnt be interested in that?

No. They would consider it a downgrade. Seriously, I understand why you want them. I understand why EVERY conference wants them. But it's seriously a 1% possibility (if that). I call that a pipe dream. Others might say "so...you're telling me I have a chance!"

[throwbackmuskie]

I think you are wrong. That conference may still have the likes of Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Boston College and Wake Forest, plus UConn, UC and possibly Temple.

If they bolt the ACC (which I still believe is a distinct possibility) it will be for a deal with the Big 4. Most likely the BiG. I understand all the optimism about the C7 conference, but let's not get carried away. It's better for us. But ND will almost certainly have better options, even with just its Olympic sports.

There is no way the B1G would let ND move their Nonfootball sports in. It would be all or none. C7 would make a ton of sense. East Coast schools and school they have a relationship with

[LA Muskie]

There is no way the B1G would let ND move their Nonfootball sports in. It would be all or none. C7 would make a ton of sense. East Coast schools and school they have a relationship with
Don't be so sure. And sense or no sense, ND is not leaving the ACC (even what's left of it) to join the C7. It just is not happening.

[More Cowbell]

I think you are wrong. That conference may still have the likes of Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Boston College and Wake Forest, plus UConn, UC and possibly Temple.



All great basketball schools, but the money comes from football. Why would they wast five games/year on these teams?

[Stephen FriarFan]

My point is the ACC is going to be gone soon. Big 12 needs 4 (FSU,Clemson, Louisville and for argument sake Pitt). Big 10 needs two more (GT and say UVA). SEC will take 2 more as well (UNC and VT). That would leave Duke, NCST, Wake, BC, Syracuse. If I were the C7 I would only expand to 10 at the present time, Xavier, Butler and Richmond/VCU. See how it shakes out and keep a strong line open to Notre Dame. When the ACC folds ND's best bet to stay how they want would to join the C7. At that point you talk to Creighton or STL.

If you look at the schools you would say are left in the ACC. Then add UCONN Cincy USF. Then you have Georgtown who already think they
Could fit there. What ever happens will happen but it would be better if it is after this league is formed

[throwbackmuskie]

Don't be so sure. And sense or no sense, ND is not leaving the ACC (even what's left of it) to join the C7. It just is not happening.we shall see......

[throwbackmuskie]

Gtown would be in the c7 from the start, they would not leave after it is started

[LA Muskie]

All great basketball schools, but the money comes from football. Why would they wast five games/year on these teams?
They're not going to play 5 games against those teams. That aspect of the deal is dead. At least if the ACC wants any piece of Notre Dame. And they do.

Regardless, if it's conference-based football $ ND is looking for, the C7 certainly isn't the place to go.

But all of that is meaningless. The way the new playoff system is shaking out, I'd be stupified if we didn't see Notre Dame joining a Big 4 Conference for Olympic Sports with a scheduling alliance for football -- guaranteeing ND the necessary opponents to qualify for the playoffs at a minimum, if not making them eligible for the conference championship.

[BMoreX]

Latest from jersey guy:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238


According to sources familiar with the talks now being held among the Catholic 7, the group will initially focus on a 10 team conference, which would mean invitations to Butler and Xavier of the Atlantic 10. An internal tug of war over the 10th team is being waged with Marquette leading a charge to include Creighton, while Georgetown and the Eastern Catholic schools are focusing on Richmond of the Atlantic 10.

Love a 10 team league to start.

[Masterofreality]

Latest from jersey guy:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238



Love a 10 team league to start.

But.....I'd prefer St. Louis. Bigger Market and footprint. The eastern schools are probably preferring Richmond because of the less travel involved for Olympic sports, but St. Louis is a much better overall choice in my mind.

Screw the Cryers. They've earned nothing......NOTHING I say!

[chico]

I'd like VCU instead of Richmond. Are the facilities/resources/alumni following that much better at Richmond?

Poor, poor Dayton. Actually, though, it may work out for them because they stand a better chance of winning the A-10 than getting in the NCAA tourney as part of the new conference.

[BMoreX]

I'd like VCU instead of Richmond. Are the facilities/resources/alumni following that much better at Richmond?

Poor, poor Dayton. Actually, though, it may work out for them because they stand a better chance of winning the A-10 than getting in the NCAA tourney as part of the new conference.

From what I've read, the following in Richmond is much better for the Rams than the Spiders.

[paulxu]

From what I've read, the following in Richmond is much better for the Rams than the Spiders.

Well sure, it's just like there are more people following UC in Cincinnati...big state school vs little private school.

The big difference between UC and VCU, is that VCU has a real coach, and their fans are pretty good too.

[bigdiggins]

Well sure, it's just like there are more people following UC in Cincinnati...big state school vs little private school.

The big difference between UC and VCU, is that VCU has a real coach, and their fans are pretty good too.

VCU's fans are indeed great. Best time I've ever had at a basketball game not involving X was the VCU opening round game in Dayton. Those folks are awesome.

[Xman95]

VCU's fans are indeed great. Best time I've ever had at a basketball game not involving X was the VCU opening round game in Dayton. Those folks are awesome.

I went to the NASCAR race in Richmond last September and the people down there were great. Actually looked over VCU from our hotel room. Granted there were some areas that I really didn't want to stop my car, but most of the people we talked to were really nice. Not that it means the VCU or Richmond fans have to be wonderful (although we did sit next to an 80-yr-old Richmond grad and he was a super guy), but I can believe that they are a solid fan base.

[DC Muskie]

Article by The Post's Liz Clarke (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/georgetown-takes-lead-in-preserving-basketball-tradition-of-catholic-7/2013/02/21/40193304-7c2d-11e2-82e8-61a46c2cde3d_story.html) where she talks to DeGioia about the rise of Georgetown and the Big East, and the developments of the new league.

Most of the interesting stuff comes at the end. It looks like it will eventually be 12.

[coasterville95]

That doesn't surprise me, I think the schools and coaches (and maybe even the fans) would prefer 10 and a true doube round robin, but as Paul like to say the University of Sports Television Producer wants 12, and television does drive the bus.

I was just remembering all the discussions throughout the years on here about the proverbial "All Catholic Basketball League" and how that was continually shot down as being impractical for a whole host of reasons. Looks like, in the end, that may be almost what happens.

I hope Butler and Richmond enjoy their time in RCIA.

[paulxu]

And though its boundaries may extend west of the Mississippi, some “geographical coherence” is expected

That sounds like Creighton is still under consideration (since St Louis is "on" the Mississippi) and Gonzaga is not.

[xudash]

That sounds like Creighton is still under consideration (since St Louis is "on" the Mississippi) and Gonzaga is not.

I believe the BoT connection between Creighton and Marquette is stronger than most people are willing to believe.

Seriously, I try to put myself in the Georgetown President's position. I'm at a planning meeting for this deal. The Marquette President is pushing Creighton. Everyone is taking the position that it's 2013 and travel is travel: airports, Expedia, etc.; if you have to go to X town, going to Y town isn't such a big problem (e.g. if a student-athlete is on the plane 45 minutes longer than they otherwise would be, going to an alternative location, that actually opens up some quality study time for them).

I look out the window and consider Creighton versus Dayton. Just based on the two schools and their resumes (i.e. forget TV market ramifications and MSA sizes for the moment) I see little difference, and the difference I see probably favors Creighton.

AT THE MARGIN, with an existing member pushing for a specific addition and there being little to differentiate two alternatives, I probably end up honoring the existing member's wish, especially since it involves a Jesuit school with which I happen to have some personal connectivity to in the first place.

[BMoreX]

I've flip-flopped a lot on who I would add but I'm going to try to put a final group out. Realistically, Gonzaga is out of the picture.

Xavier and Butler are in. So there's 9.

The candidates for the last three spots are Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond, and maybe VCU. Though I prefer VCU, I see why the C7 wants Richmond (academic prestige/institutional fit).

From articles, it seems like there is a debate on #10; the eastern schools want Richmond and Marquette wants Creighton. A compromise would suggest that both would be in, with one being #10 and the other #11.

So that leaves SLU and Dayton fighting it out for #12. Dayton has passionate fans, has the town watching basketball, and good facilities. SLU also has good facilities, perhaps less fan support, but a much larger television market. As we've agreed, the TV execs are going to want to decide who's in this league. For that reason, I think SLU is #12 with Dayton being left out. The city of Dayton will continue to watch basketball whether or not the FLyers are in this league. I believe the St. Louis market is enough to entice the move to grab the Billikens over the Flyers.

So...C7 plus Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Richmond, and SLU.

[xudash]

I've flip-flopped a lot on who I would add but I'm going to try to put a final group out. Realistically, Gonzaga is out of the picture.

Xavier and Butler are in. So there's 9.

The candidates for the last three spots are Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, Richmond, and maybe VCU. Though I prefer VCU, I see why the C7 wants Richmond (academic prestige/institutional fit).

From articles, it seems like there is a debate on #10; the eastern schools want Richmond and Marquette wants Creighton. A compromise would suggest that both would be in, with one being #10 and the other #11.

So that leaves SLU and Dayton fighting it out for #12. Dayton has idiot fans, has the town watching basketball, and good facilities. SLU also has good facilities, perhaps less fan support, but a much larger television market. As we've agreed, the TV execs are going to want to decide who's in this league. For that reason, I think SLU is #12 with Dayton being left out. The city of Dayton will continue to watch basketball whether or not the FLyers are in this league. I believe the St. Louis market is enough to entice the move to grab the Billikens over the Flyers.

So...C7 plus Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Richmond, and SLU.

Bold One: fixed that for you.

Bold Two: everyone here understands that past performance in all the key rating areas (i.e. NCAA wins, attendance, facilities, budgets, etc.) is important, and should be a key determinate in arriving at the final composition of the league, but assessing performance potential for the future also has to be put into the mix. Specifically, SLU has proven that it can pack the house when it wins. It did that under Spoon, and it did that to the tune of filling an NBA arena at the time.

Otherwise, we should expect a lift for all the programs coming into this conference. I would not give Dayton a hall pass for its attendance over SLU. Casual visits to their board now - the idiots on UDPride - clearly reveal a fan base that is losing confidence in their coach and their AD's continuing obsession with revenue over positioning for real long-term success. Some of these polyester, sweater-vest clad tools are writing about dropping their season ticket packages.

[BMoreX]

Dash, I completely agree, which is why I would take SLU over Dayton. Sure, the Flyers may have a longer history of success, but SLU has been successful in the past 2 years, likely going to the tournament twice. Plus, their potential is much much better. As you said, SLU can fill Chaifetz and get it rocking. The Billiken Blizzard vs X last year and vs. Butler this year was phenomenal.

I hope the C7 presidents make the right decision.

[Xaveriana]

I want to quickly address Butler. I get including them based on their recent success, but what happens if Brad S leaves for a bigger program? Is Butler's program able to withstand coaching changes? Are they committed to doing what it takes to bring in top talent coaches? Basically is their success based on the program or a specific coach? Not sure if anyone has brought this up.

[Grylls]

I want to quickly address Butler. I get including them based on their recent success, but what happens if Brad S leaves for a bigger program? Is Butler's program able to withstand coaching changes? Are they committed to doing what it takes to bring in top talent coaches? Basically is their success based on the program or a specific coach? Not sure if anyone has brought this up.

To be fair, Butler had a lot of success before Stevens became head coach.

[LA Muskie]

Is Butler's program able to withstand coaching changes?
Absolutely. They didn't take them to a Final Four (much less two) but Stevens is just the last in a line of at least 4 excellent coaches to lead that program. The program itself is not a problem. The facilities and investment are, but they will be overlooked. They *will* be in the new conference. And so will we.

[Masterofreality]

Here's Butler's history. Not good before 1997. but 2 Sweet 16's and 2 Final Fours since 2003. Cant't say tha they have has exceptional success over a long period, however.

Butler Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
2011 5-1 Defeated Old Dominion in first round, 60-58
Defeated Pittsburgh in second round, 71-70
Defeated Wisconsin in regional semifinal, 61-54
Defeated Florida in regional final, 74-71
Defeated Virginia Commonwealth in National Semifinal, 70-62
Lost to Connecticut in National Championship, 53-41
2010 5-1 Defeated UTEP in first round, 77-59
Defeated Murray State in second round, 54-52
Defeated Syracuse in regional semifinal, 63-59
Defeated Kansas State in regional final, 63-56
Defeated Michigan State in National Semifinal, 52-50
Lost to Duke in National Championship, 61-59
2009 0-1 Lost to LSU in first round, 75-71
2008 1-1 Defeated South Alabama in first round, 81-61
Lost to Tennessee in second round, 76-71
2007 2-1 Defeated Old Dominion in first round, 57-46
Defeated Maryland in second round, 62-59
Lost to Florida in regional semifinal, 65-57
2003 2-1 Defeated Mississippi State in first round, 47-46
Defeated Louisville in second round, 79-71
Lost to Oklahoma in regional semifinal, 65-54
2001 1-1 Defeated Wake Forest in first round, 79-63
Lost to Arizona in second round, 73-52
2000 0-1 Lost to Florida in first round, 69-68
1998 0-1 Lost to New Mexico in first round, 79-62
1997 0-1 Lost to Cincinnati in first round, 86-69
1962 2-1 Defeated Bowling Green in second round, 56-55
Lost to Kentucky in regional semifinal, 81-60
Defeated Western Kentucky in third place game, 87-86

[GoMuskies]

Xavier, of course, has only one Sweet 16 prior to 2004. If we want to give Butler's success proper context.

[Masterofreality]

Xavier, of course, has only one Sweet 16 prior to 2004. If we want to give Butler's success proper context.

But we also have over 20 NCAA appearances and have been consistently good for over 30 years.

[Title_BU]

Butler is 455-185 over the last 20 seasons. If BU finishes with 5 more wins, in 12/13, the 20-year average is exactly 23 wins per year.

And, will likely catch Xavier this March in number of Tournament games since 2000. (Not to mention a 5th Sweet 16 since 03 looks attainable)

Also, the 30mm dollar renovation happening or the fact the coach makes significantly more than Chris Mack (investment)

#soyeah

[ammtd34]

Butler is 455-185 over the last 20 seasons. If BU finishes with 5 more wins, in 12/13, the 20-year average is exactly 23 wins per year.

And, will likely catch Xavier this March in number of Tournament games since 2000. (Not to mention a 5th Sweet 16 since 03 looks attainable)

Also, the 30mm dollar renovation happening or the fact the coach makes significantly more than Chris Mack (investment)

#soyeah

This post should be relatively simple, but I found it nearly impossible to read.

[Masterofreality]

Butler is 455-185 over the last 20 seasons. If BU finishes with 5 more wins, in 12/13, the 20-year average is exactly 23 wins per year.

And, will likely catch Xavier this March in number of Tournament games since 2000. (Not to mention a 5th Sweet 16 since 03 looks attainable)

Also, the 30mm dollar renovation happening or the fact the coach makes significantly more than Chris Mack (investment)

#soyeah

Dude, Xavier has 23 appearances, you have 11 with a probable 12 this year. Between 1962 and 1997 you didn't make a dance. You had your two run years and congrats, but you also missed the Tourney last year. Don't be so high on your horse.

Look. I'm glad Butler will be in the league with us, but stop with the hubris. No way have you played in as competitive a league as the A-10 until this year.

#soyeah

[Title_BU]

Hubris?

Its just the reality of things. Xavier is in no better position that Butler for the future. Its simple.

[LA Muskie]

Why exactly did this become an XU v Butler thread? We both have different but very good resumes and are the 2 automatics to be included in the next conference. Why can't we collectively celebrate that while we (mostly the XU we) enjoy watching both Dayton and UC dangling in the wind?

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't get it either other than Title BU likes to aggravate people. See A-10 board.

[throwbackmuskie]

32-16


That is all

[waggy]

The only program X owns more than Dayton is Butler.

[xudash]

Hubris?

Its just the reality of things. Xavier is in no better position that Butler for the future. Its simple.

No, it isn't that simple. I think Butler is positioned well and will be fine as we move on. Butler and Xavier are both positioned well to contribute to the new conference, but Butler's basketball program doesn't operate at Xavier's level financially, and unless Butler's renovation leads to seat licensing and demand for that seat licensing rises to a sufficient level to offset the lost capacity, the gap will only get wider.

Butler still has to secure and spend millions to clean-up an old, dusty building. You claim the renovation is happening. It's my understanding that it isn't funded yet, and it won't be for at least another year or two minimum.

Frankly, that new capacity figure of 8,500 is rather alarming. Perhaps Butler's fan support issue is the problem and the reason for the capacity reduction, in addition to whatever constraints a building that old places on the redesign. Butler placed 78th in NCAA 2012 attendance (down from 2011's figure), averaging 6,599 per home game. You can blame that on the Horizon schedule all you want, but your leadership is resetting the table to 8,500, and they're doing that for a reason.

Xavier was 39th in attendance in 2012 at 10,115. However, the Cintas Center is configured with suites and has high demand for seat licensing. Xavier's Forbes ranking as one of the top 20 most valuable basketball programs in the nation mainly comes from that. Only Xavier, Duke and Syracuse make that list. Butler will never see that list.

Again, both programs will add handsomely to the new conference, but financial wherewithal and position have everything to do with how well positioned a program is for the future. Xavier clearly enjoys an edge in that regard, which, along with its deeper fan support, positions it better than Butler for the future.

[Xavier]

Frankly, that new capacity figure of 8,500 is rather alarming. Perhaps Butler's fan support issue is the problem and the reason for the capacity reduction, in addition to whatever constraints a building that old places on the redesign. Butler placed 78th in NCAA 2012 attendance (down from 2011's figure), averaging 6,599 per home game. You can blame that on the Horizon schedule all you want, but your leadership is resetting the table to 8,500, and they're doing that for a reason.

Xavier was 39th in attendance in 2012 at 10,115. However, the Cintas Center is configured with suites and has high demand for seat licensing. Xavier's Forbes ranking as one of the top 20 most valuable basketball programs in the nation mainly comes from that. Only Xavier, Duke and Syracuse make that list. Butler will never see that list.

.

Butler has a horrible fan base. The fact is- both programs are one horrible coach away from dropping fast. Brad Stevens is a really good coach for a Butler type program, I am not surprised he hasn't jumped for a bigger challenge. I also don't blame him- he will continue to have solid seasons and make the tournament and every now and then have a run to the sweet 16/elite 8. Which is more than fine for the Butler program. If he ever jumps ship to a real program, he will have to do more than just make the tournament to keep his fanbase happy.

If he hasn't already jumped for a real challenge yet, will he ever? Makes good money and really has no pressure to do much. Its clear he lacks the confidence to run a big program.

[REALtapsplunkett]

Apparently Butler fans are as delusional as Dayton fans.

[LA Muskie]

Apparently Butler fans are as delusional as Dayton fans.

Most fans are delusional. It's all a matter of degree. Just look at what Xavier just wrote.

[boozehound]

Hubris?

Its just the reality of things. Xavier is in no better position that Butler for the future. Its simple.

I would argue that you need a better arena and more consistent fan support to be similarly well positioned. You do have a great coach who seems content at Butler which is a major plus and creates stability.

[Masterofreality]

Was wired in this weekend.

I can tell you that the new Conference was discussed in the catacombs deep within the Xavier campus at Board meetings this weekend. Still some uncertainty as to the final timing and the final number of schools, but Xavier will be changing addresses very soon.

Take it to the bank, and lock it.

[LA Muskie]

Was wired in this weekend.

I can tell you that the new Conference was discussed in the catacombs deep within the Xavier campus at Board meetings this weekend. Still some uncertainty as to the final timing and the final number of schools, but Xavier will be changing addresses very soon.

Take it to the bank, and lock it.
I was in Cincy for XU meetings as well. And I got a similar report. A few additional nuggets:

1. The number of additional schools and their components are still being ironed out, but XU and Butler are in for sure. Siena is not a rumor. It is in play. As are Richmond, SLU and Creighton. Dayton is sweating, justifiably. Their star is fading. That said, I was told that one or more other schools, not currently being seriously discussed in the media, may well slide in. But they will not be Notre Dame.

2. The conference will not have disparate payouts to member schools. However, the first monies off the top from the TV deal will fund the direct startup costs for the conference, including conference buyouts for member institutions. Schools likely will be on their own as to lost NCAA credits, but their out-of-pocket transition costs will be covered from the TV deal.

3 This will be a huge -- HUGE -- financial boon for the university.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Was wired in this weekend.

I can tell you that the new Conference was discussed in the catacombs deep within the Xavier campus at Board meetings this weekend. Still some uncertainty as to the final timing and the final number of schools, but Xavier will be changing addresses very soon.

Take it to the bank, and lock it.


I was in Cincy for XU meetings as well. And I got a similar report. A few additional nuggets:

1. The number of additional schools and their components are still being ironed out, but XU and Butler are in for sure. Siena is not a rumor. It is in play. As are Richmond, SLU and Creighton. Dayton is sweating, justifiably. Their star is fading. That said, I was told that one or more other schools, not currently being seriously discussed in the media, may well slide in. But they will not be Notre Dame.

2. The conference will not have disparate payouts to member schools. However, the first monies off the top from the TV deal will fund the direct startup costs for the conference, including conference buyouts for member institutions. Schools likely will be on their own as to lost NCAA credits, but their out-of-pocket transition costs will be covered from the TV deal.

3 This will be a huge -- HUGE -- financial boon for the university.

Awesome news guys. I've heard rumblings of approximately $3mil/year from Fox. Does that sound accurate?

Also, any word on the potential teams that 'could slide in', LAMuskie? Any new teams mentioned that previously weren't? I take it VCU is pretty much on the outside looking in? Is there a way for Gonzaga to join for Bball only?

[Masterofreality]

I was in Cincy for XU meetings as well. And I got a similar report. A few additional nuggets:

1. The number of additional schools and their components are still being ironed out, but XU and Butler are in for sure. Siena is not a rumor. It is in play. As are Richmond, SLU and Creighton. Dayton is sweating, justifiably. Their star is fading. That said, I was told that one or more other schools, not currently being seriously discussed in the media, may well slide in. But they will not be Notre Dame.

2. The conference will not have disparate payouts to member schools. However, the first monies off the top from the TV deal will fund the direct startup costs for the conference, including conference buyouts for member institutions. Schools likely will be on their own as to lost NCAA credits, but their out-of-pocket transition costs will be covered from the TV deal.

3 This will be a huge -- HUGE -- financial boon for the university.

Yep. Just didn't want to divulge too much info now, but I guess it's OK to do so. The dump is in trouble.

Damn, LA. Wish I'd have known you were there. We had our Annual Lew Hirt Society meeting on Saturday. Joe Sunderman and Byron Larkin were there and have now been inducted as Honorary Brothers to join Andy Mac and WKRQ.

[GoMuskies]

I take it VCU is pretty much on the outside looking in?

After Saturday they are. Hopefully SLU will be more pragmatic in the way they approach their upcoming game at Cintas.

[LA Muskie]

Awesome news guys. I've heard rumblings of approximately $3mil/year from Fox. Does that sound accurate?

Also, any word on the potential teams that 'could slide in', LAMuskie? Any new teams mentioned that previously weren't? I take it VCU is pretty much on the outside looking in? Is there a way for Gonzaga to join for Bball only?
My guy hadn't heard of any particular schools and he didn't know if any in particular were even being discussed. He just knew that other than XU and Butler, there is absolutely no consensus as to who the other 1-3 schools are -- and that they are therefore doing a lot of research and talking to potential suitors about whether they could/would make that transition. That research has led to Siena being a very serious contender (TV market). VCU is not dead in the water -- they should have been on my list. We all know the pros and cons there, and they are the same as being discussed at the university and "conference" level.

As for money, it's more than just the TV money -- although that obviously helps a lot. That said, he said the reporting on the TV deal is fairly accurate, so that number would probably be close.

[LA Muskie]

Yep. Just didn't want to divulge too much info now, but I guess it's OK to do so. The dump is in trouble.

Damn, LA. Wish I'd have known you were there. We had our Annual Lew Hirt Society meeting on Saturday. Joe Sunderman and Byron Larkin were there and have now been inducted as Honorary Brothers to join Andy Mac and WKRQ.

I'd have let you know, but I flew out on an 8:45 am flight on Saturday. After being in town for 2 days of meetings, I couldn't spare another day -- more specifically, with an 8 month old and 5-year old at home, my wife would have killed me if I had left her alone with them for another day. If it was a noon game I could have done it. The 2pm start screwed me because the last flight out was 6pm.

I did hear about the LHS meeting -- didn't know about the honorary inductions though. Makes the ball I got -- signed by Chris, Joe and Byron -- all the more valuable!

[Masterofreality]

My guy hadn't heard of any particular schools and he didn't know if any in particular were even being discussed. He just knew that other than XU and Butler, there is absolutely no consensus as to who the other 1-3 schools are -- and that they are therefore doing a lot of research and talking to potential suitors about whether they could/would make that transition. That research has led to Siena being a very serious contender (TV market). VCU is not dead in the water -- they should have been on my list. We all know the pros and cons there, and they are the same as being discussed at the university and "conference" level.

As for money, it's more than just the TV money -- although that obviously helps a lot. That said, he said the reporting on the TV deal is fairly accurate, so that number would probably be close.

One thing for sure. Both VCU and Richmond will not be in. One or the other, but Richmond has the edge right now, depending on the final number from my understanding.

[DC Muskie]

I'm sure this has already been answered , so I apologize...but does each school get more money if there are 12 as opposed to 10?

Also, what's the holdup with Dayton...morbid curiosity.

[LA Muskie]

One thing for sure. Both VCU and Richmond will not be in. One or the other, but Richmond has the edge right now, depending on the final number from my understanding.

Yes, that is my understanding as well.

[GoMuskies]

Also, what's the holdup with Dayton...morbid curiosity.

Dayton sucks.

[LA Muskie]

I'm sure this has already been answered , so I apologize...but does each school get more money if there are 12 as opposed to 10?

Also, what's the holdup with Dayton...morbid curiosity.
Two things: (1) TV markets are playing a more critical role -- hence the emergence of Siena and the stronger consideration of Richmond. (2) The C7 schools are driving the train, and they all have their own "pet" schools they'd like to see added. G'Town really wants Richmond. Marquette really wants SLU and/or Creighton. Nobody really wants Dayton. (True. But yes, it was also fun writing that.)

[DC Muskie]

Another side question...

They aren't talking about divisions are they? That would suck big time.

[LA Muskie]

Another side question...

They aren't talking about divisions are they? That would suck big time.
I don't know. I suspect it will depend on the number and component parts. I suspect we'd see a round-robin of 18 games at 10. At 12, that wouldn't be possible but I'm not sure they've crossed the bridge of what to do in that event. Right now the talks remain high-level (and, hence, largely financial).

[DC Muskie]

Nice. Thanks!

[powerofX]

I was in Cincy for XU meetings as well. And I got a similar report. A few additional nuggets:

1. The number of additional schools and their components are still being ironed out, but XU and Butler are in for sure. Siena is not a rumor. It is in play. As are Richmond, SLU and Creighton. Dayton is sweating, justifiably. Their star is fading. That said, I was told that one or more other schools, not currently being seriously discussed in the media, may well slide in. But they will not be Notre Dame.

2. The conference will not have disparate payouts to member schools. However, the first monies off the top from the TV deal will fund the direct startup costs for the conference, including conference buyouts for member institutions. Schools likely will be on their own as to lost NCAA credits, but their out-of-pocket transition costs will be covered from the TV deal.

3 This will be a huge -- HUGE -- financial boon for the university.

Not sure if LA actually knows the "other" schools considered or not, but I like hearing this. In the end it may well be the schools that we keep hearing, but I like that the group is taking their time. Not only is this about historical significance and performance, but also positiong the conference as a whole for the maximum FUTURE success. As in, could the rising tide of a likeminded school basketball conference awaken a sleeping or dormant giant? This will have to do with the media markets for TV and which schools could spend for future success. I don't think Siena will be in because of the smaller media market, but if they are at least exploring them, I bet they are looking at a school like Detroit. If they are looking at Richmond to add to Butler, it says they may make a conscious decision to have a few non catholic schools to get away from the lazy media tag of catholic seven that is already there. If that is the case an additional non catholic school could be a school like Boston University...arena and media market or Davidson...media market and huge endowment for future spending. Again, not saying any of these "other schools" are happening, just that it makes sense to explore outside of the "usual" suspects. It would need to be a group of schools for a stable and lucrative future.

Oh, and the more schools explored means the less likely Dayton is in...haha

I'll amend my smaller media market comment for Sienna if the group thinks it would bring in all upstate New York. Just didn't think Albany by itself would be considered a desirable market.

[Masterofreality]

Two things: (1) TV markets are playing a more critical role -- hence the emergence of Siena and the stronger consideration of Richmond. (2) The C7 schools are driving the train, and they all have their own "pet" schools they'd like to see added. G'Town really wants Richmond. Marquette really wants SLU and/or Creighton. Nobody really wants Dayton. (True. But yes, it was also fun writing that.)

Yep, again.

Despite the raging debate about this a few weeks ago, there is a major consideration as this all breaks down to not duplicate markets. There will be a certain finite number and the interest is to spread the footprint, not to overlap.

I understand there is a lot of support for St.L. There really is no advocate for the dump. Unlike with the A10, XU does not have any influence to drag little brother along. (True, but yes it was also fun to write that)

[LA Muskie]

Not sure if LA actually knows the "other" schools considered or not, but I like hearing this. In the end it may well be the schools that we keep hearing, but I like that the group is taking their time. Not only is this about historical significance and performance, but also positiong the conference as a whole for the maximum FUTURE success. As in, could the rising tide of a likeminded school basketball conference awaken a sleeping or dormant giant? This will have to do with the media markets for TV and which schools could spend for future success. I don't think Siena will be in because of the smaller media market, but if they are at least exploring them, I bet they are looking at a school like Detroit. If they are looking at Richmond to add to Butler, it says they may make a conscious decision to have a few non catholic schools to get away from the lazy media tag of catholic seven that is already there. If that is the case an additional non catholic school could be a school like Boston University...arena and media market or Davidson...media market and huge endowment for future spending. Again, not saying any of these "other schools" are happening, just that it makes sense to explore outside of the "usual" suspects. It would need to be a group of schools for a stable and lucrative future.

Oh, and the more schools explored means the less likely Dayton is in...haha
I don't know the "other" schools. I think Siena is more of an option than anyone realizes. I definitely agree that the C7 thinking is that if they create the right conference and the school is willing to make the financial commitment, the conference itself will help schools emerge such that current status is not necessarily a determining factor.

Also, I'm hearing that the conference almost certainly will start with 9 or 10 schools. And more likely 10. G'Town is pushing for Richmond but others like VCU. So it may well be SLU or Creighton to to get to 10, because if it's Richmond then it means the VCU debate is over.

[paulxu]

Another side question...

They aren't talking about divisions are they? That would suck big time.

You know darn well that if they are at 12 they'll be 2 divisions for travel, etc.

[GoMuskies]

The only potential good thing about adding Siena is that their invite might come at the expense of Dayton. Beyond the hilarity of that, it would be the height of stupidity.

[LA Muskie]

You know darn well that if they are at 12 they'll be 2 divisions for travel, etc.

Well it certainly won't be a round-robin format at 12. I think DC's question is whether it's actual firm divisions, scheduling pods/partners like the A-10 has, or simply unbalanced annual scheduling. I don't have the answer to that question, and I don't think anyone does because it's probably a few years down the line before anyone really needs to confront it.

[LA Muskie]

The only potential good thing about adding Siena is that their invite might come at the expense of Dayton. Beyond the hilarity of that, it would be the height of stupidity.
Let's put it this way. This is all being evaluating in a painstaking manner. If Siena gets the call, it will be for a very good reason. I think all of the decision-makers are aware that they would really have to justify that choice. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if that name in particular was leaked to see the reaction.

[kyxu]

The only potential good thing about adding Siena is that their invite might come at the expense of Dayton. Beyond the hilarity of that, it would be the height of stupidity.

Agreed. It would make sense to involve Dayton ahead of Siena, but my God would it be hilarious if UD was left out.

[paulxu]

Also, I'm hearing that the conference almost certainly will start with 9 or 10 schools. And more likely 10. G'Town is pushing for Richmond but others like VCU. So it may well be SLU or Creighton to to get to 10, because if it's Richmond then it means the VCU debate is over.

Sienna's market is only a hair bigger than Daytons, and St Louis dwarfs both of them..together.
If they go to Richmond for 10, the geography is unbalanced, but no one would care as it would be the MOR/GO Round Robin Conference.
Then maybe add 2 more the following year.

What I REALLY want to happen is for the damn league to start in 2013. Hope it's not too late for that.

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure the A-10 had a good reason for adding Fordham, too. And the Big East probably thought adding DePaul was a good idea as well. I can save them the trouble: adding Siena is a bad idea.

[coasterville95]

Wel, I just locked in a 5 year season ticket renewal, I guess that's as good of locking it as I can do.

The part about Xavier changing adresses soon is interesting, I'm sure you meant it as a figure of speech, but considering we just renamed Ledgewood to Francis Xavier Blvd, and i want to say Herald is becoming Musketeer Way or some such. - maybe the school would like to take advntage of this to create a vanity mail address - imagine

Xavier University
1831 Musketerer Way

or

Xavier University
1831 St. Francis Xavier Way

Also, Shannon retweeted during the VCU game that an announcement could come in the next few days.

oh - and to the other post - I love the crack that VCU just blew its New Conference Invite with that stunt they pulled at Cintas on Saturday, and maybe St. Louis will pay more attention to game strategy in light of this.

Pragmatic Poker Player holding 4 of a kind - "I've got nothing", folds.

[Masterofreality]

I don't know the "other" schools.

I can tell you one that most assurredly NOT be in the league..... Fordham.

When that name is mentioned, guffawing and chortling ensue.

[BMoreX]

Thanks to all. Great stuff.

Hope we hear official news very soon.

[paulxu]

Despite the raging debate about this a few weeks ago, there is a major consideration as this all breaks down to not duplicate markets. There will be a certain finite number and the interest is to spread the footprint, not to overlap.

I would suspect that in some of these meetings there is a network person, or the media consultant guy they hired to work with the networks.
Certainly the networks would try to expand away from overlapping markets, and add potential viewers.
Which would seem to mean no Dayton, and yes to the Richmond/VCU, St Louis, etc. markets.

Sienna makes no sense in that equation. The Albany market is just about the same size as Datyon. They aren't pulling people from Syracuse.
I can't imagine a network exec saying...take Albany, forget St Louis, or Richmond, or for that matter Detroit.

But it does cause one to take stock at this juncture in our history. I'm assuming that Dayton has more financial resources than X, larger endowment, student body, alumni, etc. Yet, X will be in the new league...apparently not Dayton.
It could have just as easily been them if the course of the last 2 decades had been reversed.

If this all comes to pass we owe a tremendous thanks to the administration, Bobinski, and the coaches (and players) for bringing us to this moment.

[Masterofreality]

Wel, I just locked in a 5 year season ticket renewal, I guess that's as good of locking it as I can.

Uh, that is a wise decision. If anyone else is a season ticket holder with the present offer to lock in for the 5 year renewal at the present price, do it.

There will be higher prices coming for this new league. Buy when the stock is low, folks. (15-11). You will not regret it.

[DC Muskie]

Did you know that Davidson has produced 23 Rhodes Scholars?

That's amazing.

[bigdiggins]

Uh, that is a wise decision. If anyone else is a season ticket holder with the present offer to lock in for the 5 year renewal at the present price, do it.

There will be higher prices coming for this new league. Buy when the stock is low, folks. (15-11). You will not regret it.

How does one lock in for five years? Do you have to be down in the PSL seats?

[Masterofreality]

I would suspect that in some of these meetings there is a network person, or the media consultant guy they hired to work with the networks. .

Name: Neal Pilson. Former President of CBS Sports. Media Consultant to the C7

[Masterofreality]

How does one lock in for five years? Do you have to be down in the PSL seats?

Yeah, that is for the Premiums with the annual fee.

[danaandvictory]

Let's put it this way. This is all being evaluating in a painstaking manner. If Siena gets the call, it will be for a very good reason. I think all of the decision-makers are aware that they would really have to justify that choice. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if that name in particular was leaked to see the reaction.

They play in a big-time arena up in Albany - an NBA type building that can seat up to 15,000 - and have had pretty decent success in recent years under McCaffery. Obviously they've been in decline since he (and Ryan Rossiter) left, but certianly the program has some potential. I remember them bringing a huge and vocal (and absolutely hammered) contingent to Dayton for the NCAA tournament a few years back.

I guess the question to ask is this - if they were currently in the A-10 and had made a couple of NCAA runs over the last decade, would they be a candidate? I'm thinking they would. So maybe it shouldn't surprise us as much that they are on the list.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

'Xavier's C7 Move looks like a lock'

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/02/xaviers-catholic-7-move-looks-like-a.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-02-25&u=yxCD+rLsfISO1qd+kG8u8VO+j0f

[danaandvictory]

MOR or LA -- Is there any concern from the XU end that the A-10 could lock them out of the conference tournament next year? (Assuming X is in the A-10 next season and announces their departure)

[paulxu]

I guess the question to ask is this - if they were currently in the A-10 and had made a couple of NCAA runs over the last decade, would they be a candidate? I'm thinking they would. So maybe it shouldn't surprise us as much that they are on the list.

OK, I'm a dumb sh$t and I'll bite. I don't think they would. It's nice to have a big place to play; heck, Butler could play in Banker's Life like Memphis plays in the Grizz's house. But I'm think the TV boys...who are paying all the millions...get crap from parking, concessions, ticket sales, etc at a big arena.
They need TV sets. Just not enough in Albany. (Remember though...my wife is convinced I'm a dumb sh$t.)

[Masterofreality]

MOR or LA -- Is there any concern from the XU end that the A-10 could lock them out of the conference tournament next year? (Assuming X is in the A-10 next season and announces their departure)

Nah. Remember that Temple and Charlotte are leaving. We've been good citizens.

[LA Muskie]

MOR or LA -- Is there any concern from the XU end that the A-10 could lock them out of the conference tournament next year? (Assuming X is in the A-10 next season and announces their departure)
I'm trying think about how to put this delicately... No. That's partly because there's not a sense that the A-10 will be vengeful about any of this. But it's also because XU is looking at this as a long play, so even if the A-10 tried to pull that, it wouldn't affect our decision in the slightest.

[danaandvictory]

I'm trying think about how to put this delicately... No. That's partly because there's not a sense that the A-10 will be vengeful about any of this. But it's also because XU is looking at this as a long play, so even if the A-10 tried to pull that, it wouldn't affect our decision in the slightest.

Yeah. I'm more looking at that as a decision that could grease the skids toward a 2013 start rather than a 2014 start. Doesn't seem like it's XU's call to make. And certainly the other schools will be profiting from our NCAA units so there's probably not going to be much bad blood.

[LA Muskie]

I would suspect that in some of these meetings there is a network person, or the media consultant guy they hired to work with the networks.
Certainly the networks would try to expand away from overlapping markets, and add potential viewers.
Which would seem to mean no Dayton, and yes to the Richmond/VCU, St Louis, etc. markets.

Sienna makes no sense in that equation. The Albany market is just about the same size as Datyon. They aren't pulling people from Syracuse.
I can't imagine a network exec saying...take Albany, forget St Louis, or Richmond, or for that matter Detroit.

But it does cause one to take stock at this juncture in our history. I'm assuming that Dayton has more financial resources than X, larger endowment, student body, alumni, etc. Yet, X will be in the new league...apparently not Dayton.
It could have just as easily been them if the course of the last 2 decades had been reversed.

If this all comes to pass we owe a tremendous thanks to the administration, Bobinski, and the coaches (and players) for bringing us to this moment.

Let's put it this way: Siena is not in the talks at 10. At 12, they are. The TV folks aren't just looking at eyeballs. They are looking at eyeballs that watch college basketball. I don't know the metrics, but I know that Siena is viewed favorably in that regard. I also suspect there is a desire on the northeast schools to maintain a balance in that direction geographically.

Please understand I am not a Siena advocate. I don't see it personally. And I grew up in the general vicinity (Rochester, NY). As far as I'm concerned, if we are talking about schools like Siena to fill to 12, then we shouldn't be filling to 12. But like I said, this is being studied by people who are far more knowledgeable with the stuff. And they are in the conversation, without question.

[LA Muskie]

Yeah. I'm more looking at that as a decision that could grease the skids toward a 2013 start rather than a 2014 start. Doesn't seem like it's XU's call to make. And certainly the other schools will be profiting from our NCAA units so there's probably not going to be much bad blood.
That's the problem. It's not our call to make. There is a game of chicken being played by C7 and F??? over the Big East name and exit fees. Someone's going to have to bail very soon though, because once it's too late to start in 2013 the F??? have lost most of their leverage.

[coasterville95]

So Sienna rents an NBA arena - they'll fit in nicely with some of the C7 in that regard.

I'm imagining an big ESPN press conference, which is simulcast on every network station in the Cincinnati/Dayton area announcing this deal. Specifically the Flyer fans on the edge of their seat waiting for the conferece membership to be announced.

Announcer: "And joining the seven schols from the former Big East to form the greatest basketball leage ever known are Xavier"
UD Fan in bar: "Of course those guys down Soputh are in, but that's not a suprise, the've been a lock since day 1"
Announcer "and Butler"
UD Fan in Bar (getting a bit more nervous) "The never, jumping from the Horizon, leapfrogging through the A-10 without even stopping to pay their dues. What about us A10 schools that have been here awhile"
UD Fan's rational buddy: "Yeah, but look at the Final Fours and they have been in every conversation about the league"
Announcer "Would you two shut Up? As I was saying, joining the 7 are Xavier, Butler, and Richmond"
UD Fan (getting self righteous) - "The Spiders!!!??! What in the heck have they done!!!"
Announcer: "And adding some Midwest flavor to the conference..."
UD Fan (almost jubilant) "Here we come boys!!!"
Announcer: "St. Louis"
UD Fan (Getting irate): "What the heck is a Biliken anyway, they are a Xavier wanna be, I mean they even did a copy/paste Cintas Center"
Announcer: "And rounding out the Ultimate Basketball Cofnerence is, you won't beleive this"
(Announcer gets out bifocals, and rereads the copy he has been handed)
Announcer "I don't even beleive this one, somebody is going to have some explaining to do when we interview the new conference commisioner in a few minutes"
UD Fan: "Get ON with it, and stop with the making fun of our proud program, you know we 'passed xavier as a program' years ago!!!!"
Announcer: The final invite goes to: Sienna, yes the team NOBODY knew about until they went on a remarkable run that started at UD Arena several years ago"
XU Fan in same Bar: "XU plays in Ultimate Conferences, UD HOSTS games for Ultimate Conference Teams!!!"
UD Fans - All order quadruple strength straight up JAck Daniels
Announcer: "And as a consolation prize, an aonymous donor just sent a truck full of Watermelons to the parking lot of UD Arena"
UD Fans all over make mad dash, wrecking cars and endagnering lives in race to UD Arena, totally forgetting about new conference.

[GoMuskies]

So Sienna rents an NBA arena

Well, they rent an NBA arena to the extent that NBA arenas seat 15,000 people....and are located in Albany, NY.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Sienna will not happen, Richmond is getting strong pull from GU, I think a month ago I said Dayton was not a sure thing and it was a good shot to go to ten teams at least for one year. A couple of cards left to be played , the next few days should produce some news.

[xudash]

Sienna will not happen, Richmond is getting strong pull from GU, I think a month ago I said Dayton was not a sure thing and it was a good shot to go to ten teams at least for one year. A couple of cards left to be played , the next few days should produce some news.

Thanks for the updates SFF, and please keep them coming.

Do you believe the cards left to be played pit Richmond against Creighton?

In your opinion, what are the odds we start out with 10?

Believe me, many people around here - me among them - would love nothing more than to see Dayton not make it into this new conference EVER, but I at least don't want them making it in during this first round.

Also, please believe me when I inform you that you'll end up not wanting them in this thing either, should you decide to spend more than 2 minutes on one of their polyester-laced, sweater-vested message boards.

[JTG]

Doesn't all this need to be in place and finalized before July 1? Due to the fact the C7 needs to finalize the Big East breakupwhile they have the voting majority. Once the new Fball schools become part of the Big East , the C7 will not be able to control the breakup.

[SlimKibbles]

...If he (Stevens) hasn't already jumped for a real challenge yet, will he ever? Makes good money and really has no pressure to do much. Its clear he lacks the confidence to run a big program.

Can't a guy just be perfectly happy where he's at? Maybe he doesn't want to go to the ACC and coach NC State or something like that. Butler, like Xavier, puts its money into the hoops program. He happens to like his job, his community, maybe his neighbors. Maybe he feels that he gets the most satisfaction out of teaching kids going to Butler instead of churning out one-and-done's like Teflon John at UK. I've never looked at Stevens staying in Indy as he doesn't have the balls to take over a bigger program, with a bigger fan-base, and with bigger, more consistent expectations. Honestly, what if Coach Mack takes X to a Final Four or two? Or maybe a few Elite Eight's in the near future? He rebuffs advances from bigger programs because he likes coaching at Xavier. Are you going to say that he lacks confidence in taking over a bigger program and that's why he's staying?

[LA Muskie]

Thanks for the updates SFF, and please keep them coming.

Do you believe the cards left to be played pit Richmond against Creighton?

In your opinion, what are the odds we start out with 10?

Believe me, many people around here - me among them - would love nothing more than to see Dayton not make it into this new conference EVER, but I at least don't want them making it in during this first round.

Also, please believe me when I inform you that you'll end up not wanting them in this thing either, should you decide to spend more than 2 minutes on one of their polyester-laced, sweater-vested message boards.
Dash,

I know this was directed to SFF, but from what I heard in Cincy last week: (i) The odds are extremely high (80-90%) that the league will start with 10 teams. (ii) The debate over #10 is indeed Richmond vs. Creighton.

If I were a betting man (and I'm not...at least not any more...) I'd put my money on Richmond because G'Town is championing them and there is more power on the east coast of the C7 than in the midwest. My only hesitation there is that selecting Richmond forecloses VCU, and I'm not sure everyone is willing to let that ship sail just yet. But I tend to think it still will be Richmond to start, in exchange for preferred consideration of Creighton and SLU in Round 2.

[LA Muskie]

Doesn't all this need to be in place and finalized before July 1? Due to the fact the C7 needs to finalize the Big East breakupwhile they have the voting majority. Once the new Fball schools become part of the Big East , the C7 will not be able to control the breakup.

Theoretically yes. And I think everyone likes that deadline because it forces the issue. But practically speaking, everything is negotiable. It's not like the C7 would let that deadline pass without getting an interim agreement to -- at a minimum -- preserve the status quo.

[xudash]

Dash,

I know this was directed to SFF, but from what I heard in Cincy last week: (i) The odds are extremely high (80-90%) that the league will start with 10 teams. (ii) The debate over #10 is indeed Richmond vs. Creighton.

If I were a betting man (and I'm not...at least not any more...) I'd put my money on Richmond because G'Town is championing them and there is more power on the east coast of the C7 than in the midwest. My only hesitation there is that selecting Richmond forecloses VCU, and I'm not sure everyone is willing to let that ship sail just yet. But I tend to think it still will be Richmond to start, in exchange for preferred consideration of Creighton and SLU in Round 2.

Thanks for that input LA M. That outcome would be music to my ears.

Frankly, that outcome also makes all the sense in the world.

And I just looked at the time and have declared myself up too late.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Doesn't all this need to be in place and finalized before July 1? Due to the fact the C7 needs to finalize the Big East breakupwhile they have the voting majority. Once the new Fball schools become part of the Big East , the C7 will not be able to control the breakup.

The July 1st deadline only would apply if the league dissolves, but things will be finalized before then.
Richmond is the GU school of choice ,while Marquette is the school pulling for Creighton. I am not sure who will be the tenth school in.

Dash- I am not sure if Dayton is dead, there were reports the people at Xavier wanted to be the only Ohio school in, we shall see..

X

The presidents want to go to ten, then be more selective if or when they go beyond that, Fox seems to be ok with that for now.

[CSS85]

The July 1st deadline only would apply if the league dissolves, but things will be finalized before then.
Richmond is the GU school of choice ,while Marquette is the school pulling for Creighton. I am not sure who will be the tenth school in.

Dash- I am not sure if Dayton is dead, there were reports the people at Xavier wanted to be the only Ohio school in, we shall see..

X

The presidents want to go to ten, then be more selective if or when they go beyond that, Fox seems to be ok with that for now.

I seem to be missing a couple big points in all of this, and they may have been addressed months ago somewhere, but here they are.

Isn't whether to go to 10 or 12 a financial decision (assuming teams 10-12 are essentially equally desirable)? In other words, if Fox offers $30 million for a 10 team league and $33 million for a 12 team league, you go to 10; conversely if the offer is $38 million for a 12 team league, you go to 12. What other considerations are there if schools 10-12 are essentially the same in terms of market, success, philosophy, etc.

If the above answer is yes, I don't understand starting off with 10 if you plan to eventually go to 12. The potential candidates are all there now. Nobody is going to start a new school this year, right? So if you think you'll ever include SLU, and the money justifies it, why would you NOT include them from the beginning? The only possible reason I can think of is that there is a more highly desirable school, who currently is NOT an option, that the presidents think COULD be an option in the future. What school is such a standout? The point I trip on is that there are only a small number of schools that fit the "B7" profile in terms of philosophy, market, and success on the court anyway, and that group isn't going to change in the next 10-20 years. I mean Virginia is not going to stop playing football are they? So if the candidates aren't going to change, that means there is an expectation that a candidate's situation is going to change, right?

[xudash]

I seem to be missing a couple big points in all of this, and they may have been addressed months ago somewhere, but here they are.

Isn't whether to go to 10 or 12 a financial decision (assuming teams 10-12 are essentially equally desirable)? In other words, if Fox offers $30 million for a 10 team league and $33 million for a 12 team league, you go to 10; conversely if the offer is $38 million for a 12 team league, you go to 12. What other considerations are there if schools 10-12 are essentially the same in terms of market, success, philosophy, etc.

If the above answer is yes, I don't understand starting off with 10 if you plan to eventually go to 12. The potential candidates are all there now. Nobody is going to start a new school this year, right? So if you think you'll ever include SLU, and the money justifies it, why would you NOT include them from the beginning? The only possible reason I can think of is that there is a more highly desirable school, who currently is NOT an option, that the presidents think COULD be an option in the future. What school is such a standout? The point I trip on is that there are only a small number of schools that fit the "B7" profile in terms of philosophy, market, and success on the court anyway, and that group isn't going to change in the next 10-20 years. I mean Virginia is not going to stop playing football are they? So if the candidates aren't going to change, that means there is an expectation that a candidate's situation is going to change, right?

IMO, you provided at least a partial answer to your question, regarding why not 12 immediately.

The math (payout per school) obviously has to work to go from 10 to 12, but perhaps they do want to hold it to 10 initially, because at the margin, they're not quite sure about Creighton versus St. Louis versus xyz, or perhaps they want to study the idea of "national footprint" some more to see if a play for Gonzaga could be made reasonable.

The last thing this new conference needs and wants right off the bat is perceived dilution. Start at 10, knowing other schools will be desperate to become a part of this new conference.

[Masterofreality]

Here's my understanding. Everyone of the initial schools will be leaving something significant behind. For example, X will be leaving a lot of NCAA credit money behind plus having to pay an exit fee. The B7 has exit fees, NCAA credit money and whether they will get anything next year from the new BE ESPN deal. The B7, X and Butler would like to keep it at 10 so that there is less initial division of the total money- including future NCAA shares- because they need to make up their exit fees/shortfalls. The network wants more schools for market coverage.

Money and negotiation will change everything. If Fox antes up more it changes the equation. If exit fees are dropped or lessened, that changes the equation. If the original 10 are allowed to begin that will create demand from others wanting to be in that could result in hefty application fees to the original 10 and it changes the equation.

This is all being sorted out....and rapidly. No one is letting any grass grow and the situation is fluid.

Stay tuned.

[BMoreX]

MOR, with your best guess, do you think the new league starts in 2013 or 2014?

[casualfan]

MOR, with your best guess, do you think the new league starts in 2013 or 2014?

Im not MOR, but I would be beyond shocked if it started next year. Just way too many moving parts for that to happen.

[paulxu]

I would not be shocked at all if it started in 2013.
If Fox Sports 1 starts in August as projected, they will need inventory in the winter.
Why not start right off with something that helps them kick off the new network and competes in basketball.
A few million dollars to them, one way or the other, doesn't make that much difference.
They are looking to set up a competitor to the dominance ESPN has had in a 24 hours sports network for the last 20 years.
Might as well start off on the right foot.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, with your best guess, do you think the new league starts in 2013 or 2014?

Best guess based on what I know is 2014. An awful lot to do, but groundwork has been laid and key people identified.

Money changes everything though and lots of bucks are still being discussed. Not 100% that 2013 is out.

[Stephen FriarFan]

MOR, with your best guess, do you think the new league starts in 2013 or 2014?

I think there is a shot that the B7 need a home for 2013, if that happens invites will go out , and if a school can get out and join they will. There is a scenario that the C7 get cut loose early, if the price is right..

[CSS85]

Here's my understanding. Everyone of the initial schools will be leaving something significant behind. For example, X will be leaving a lot of NCAA credit money behind plus having to pay an exit fee. The B7 has exit fees, NCAA credit money and whether they will get anything next year from the new BE ESPN deal. The B7, X and Butler would like to keep it at 10 so that there is less initial division of the total money- including future NCAA shares- because they need to make up their exit fees/shortfalls. The network wants more schools for market coverage.

Money and negotiation will change everything. If Fox antes up more it changes the equation. If exit fees are dropped or lessened, that changes the equation. If the original 10 are allowed to begin that will create demand from others wanting to be in that could result in hefty application fees to the original 10 and it changes the equation.

This is all being sorted out....and rapidly. No one is letting any grass grow and the situation is fluid.

Stay tuned.

I hadn't thought of this. I think we have to assume that the C7+2 would not dilute the per school share of TV money and NCAA credits in any expansion scenario (i.e. we really like you Fordham, so we will support you and give you a big piece of our future earnings), so the consideration is not between earning $3 million per school as a 10 team league or $3.25 million per school as a 12 team league, is could be between making teams 11 and 12 pay more per school in entrance fees to the first 10, than each school would lose in TV money for the first 1-3 years.

So the conversation could be "SLU, or even better DAYTON, you weren't good enough to join us last year when we talked, but if you pay us $5 million now, you're good enough this year." God, I love Capitalism. It is life's ultimate scoreboard, biaaaatttch!!

[SM#24]

Also, don't forget tourney credits. If I recall, their value is close to the TV deal value. Beyond Xavier and Butler, who is the B7 looking to add that regularly goes to the NCAA tourney ? If you answered no one, that would be correct.
Let's say the TV payout is $3m per school at 10, then the TV deal for 12 teams needs to be at least $6m more to keep $3m per school. But now you're only getting 8.3% of the NCAA money vs. 10%. Once you get the 12 team TV payout, you can figure out how often teams 11 & 12 need to go to the tourney to make it beneficial.
The B7 is laready bringing along schools that rarely go to the tournament, why add more unless their TV $$ are substantial.

[El Shaqtus]

Billiken fan here. I have no idea where 10/11/12 are going at this point.

I think we can agree on what school in Ohio we'd love to see left out :)

[PM Thor]

My dream of the decade would be the C7 goes to 10, and it's Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis. And that's it.
dayton fans would all implode. And I would throw a no pants party, everyone is invited.

I HATE dayton.

[paulxu]

Keeping the rumor fires stoked:

http://www.casualhoya.com/2013/2/26/4032716/big-east-conference-catholic-7-announcement-on-future

[El Shaqtus]

My dream of the decade would be the C7 goes to 10, and it's Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis. And that's it.
dayton fans would all implode. And I would throw a no pants party, everyone is invited.

I HATE dayton.

But...but...they get First 4 games there every year?!?!

Also called by their other name "the only tournament games involving Dayton".

[Masterofreality]

Billiken fan here. I have no idea where 10/11/12 are going at this point.

I think we can agree on what school in Ohio we'd love to see left out :)

I, for one, WANT St. Louis in this league. If, for nothing else, the Bar-B-Q.

You guys have invested with a beautiful new building. You're positioned.

[Masterofreality]

Keeping the rumor fires stoked:

http://www.casualhoya.com/2013/2/26/4032716/big-east-conference-catholic-7-announcement-on-future

Blaudschun is old news.

He just should have called me or LA Muskie up last Saturday. He could have been two days ahead.

[Pajama Joe]

But...but...they get First 4 games there every year?!?!

Also called by their other name "the only tournament games involving Dayton".

Look at this guy, winning over the xhoops crowd, one dayton bash at a time...

[El Shaqtus]

I used to be in the middle on Xavier/Dayton, but the C7 talk has pushed me towards Xavier.

Most people I know call The First 4 "The Dayton Invitational".

[Masterofreality]

I used to be in the middle on Xavier/Dayton, but the C7 talk has pushed me towards Xavier.
".

This sounds like shameless begging for entry.

Ok, for $5 or $10 million, you're IN! :laugh:

[Aughnanure]

I, for one, WANT St. Louis in this league. If, for nothing else, the Bar-B-Q.

You guys have invested with a beautiful new building. You're positioned.

Please never again discuss "Bar-B-Q" and St. Louis together ever again. They are not related.

[XUOWNSUC]

My preferred order for the 10th slot:

1. Gonzaga (I know - won't happen)
2. SLU
3. Creighton
4. Richmond

[_LH]

My preferred order for the 10th slot:

1. Gonzaga (I know - won't happen)
2. SLU
3. Creighton
4. Richmond

My order would be:

1. UCONN
2. VCU
3. Stay at 9
4. ND
5. Stay at 9
6. Richmond

[muskiefan82]

My preferred order for the 10th slot:

1. Gonzaga (I know - won't happen)
2. SLU
3. Creighton
4. Richmond

Screw it, the 10th team invite should go to Duke. They should jump ship now. Their fball team can play in the MAC. They might win that league.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I would also love SLU as a fan of XU and SLU. SLU is on the rise and has nice new facilities and a good media market. Seems to me a better choice for #10 than the rest.

[XU Cowbell Kid]

Please never again discuss "Bar-B-Q" and St. Louis together ever again. They are not related.

You sir have never been to the right places in St. Louis - go to Pappy's and you will never doubt the 314 ever again. I'm pulling for SLU so that Xavier still comes out this way every once in a while!

[BlueGuy]

As West Virginia is finding out (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/west-virginia-moved-conference-region-complains-travel-issues-171404871--ncaaf.html), Gonzaga just wouldn't work out. The travel is just killer.

As a resident of upstate NY, I selfishly wouldn't mind Sienna. It would make rooting on Xavier in person, at least once a season, much easier for me.

[GoMuskies]

As a resident of upstate NY, I selfishly wouldn't mind Sienna. It would make rooting on Xavier in person, at least once a season, much easier for me.

With this as the criteria, I hereby nominate Wichita State. At least the Shockers don't suck.

[UCGRAD4X]

I used to be in the middle on Xavier/Dayton, but the C7 talk has pushed me towards Xavier.

You were almost in and you just worked your way back out again.

[El Shaqtus]

You were almost in and you just worked your way back out again.

I'm a Saint Louis fan. But the delusion on the A-10 board is pretty wild.

[Xman95]

I used to be in the middle on Xavier/Dayton, but the C7 talk has pushed me towards Xavier.

Most people I know call The First 4 "The Dayton Invitational".

Only Dayton usually isn't good enough to get even that far!!!

[BBC 08]

With this as the criteria, I hereby nominate Wichita State. At least the Shockers don't suck.

I counter with Belmont then.

[bourbonman]

I counter with Belmont then.

Then Bellarmine University!

[paulxu]

I'm a Saint Louis fan. But the delusion on the A-10 board is pretty wild.

If we go first with Butler and Richmond...you'll get Muddy as a consolation prize until you can escape.

[STL_XUfan]

Then Bellarmine University!

Then Missouri S&T?

[Pajama Joe]

Then Missouri S&T?

Central Oklahoma! Wait, I'm not sure they have basketball...

[BandAid]

Creighton! Oh wait, that's a viable option...

[xupuck10]

Loyola! Yeah, I'm selfish and want more than one opportunity to see them in Chicago. Although Siena would give me a good reason to go back home to Albany, which always makes my parents happy.

[SlimKibbles]

I counter with Belmont then.

I'm all for this. Why aren't they at least in the discussion a little? Seriously. Haven't they had more tournament success in the last decade than some of the other schools being talked about. Belmont is a program on the rise in a great market. Only knock against them is their gym only seats like 5,000.

[El Shaqtus]

If we go first with Butler and Richmond...you'll get Muddy as a consolation prize until you can escape.

Thanks, what I always wanted :)

[Stephen FriarFan]

I think there is a shot that the B7 need a home for 2013, if that happens invites will go out , and if a school can get out and join they will. There is a scenario that the C7 get cut loose early, if the price is right..

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5347. Not sure if I figured how to post links here but seems to be the same info could be a quick move to 2013..

[Xu Red Dogg]

If you haven't been there already, this is a great Catholic 7 forum and source of information, links, etc:
http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=772

They just posted a link to what seems to be the most well informed source on this matter that is claiming 2013 is more likely than ever. The story can be found here - http://www.ajerseyguy.com/

It it possible that we are down to our last 3 A10 games EVER?

[Masterofreality]

Yep, as I he earlier said, money can change anything.

XU and Butler have some calculating to do. Fox is indicating that they want this to go fast...and they want it bad!

[SixFig]

they want this to go fast...and they want it bad!

That's what she said?

[UCGRAD4X]

Now we're starting to reference someone who calls himself 'A Jersey Guy' to the point of incorporating - as in "A Jersey Guy LLC"

There is another link to a Chicago Tribune article quoting Marquette and DePaul officials as not ruling out a 2013 date.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-depaul-marquette-big-east-20130227,0,2929687.story

and expecting to be wrapped up in two weeks.

[LA Muskie]

If you haven't been there already, this is a great Catholic 7 forum and source of information, links, etc:
http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=772

They just posted a link to what seems to be the most well informed source on this matter that is claiming 2013 is more likely than ever. The story can be found here - http://www.ajerseyguy.com/

It it possible that we are down to our last 3 A10 games EVER?

I agree he seems to have his finger on the pulse. And I agree that UC is forgettable. But he loses some credibility when leaves them off the list of schools with voting rights.

[LA Muskie]

Yep, as I he earlier said, money can change anything.

XU and Butler have some calculating to do. Fox is indicating that they want this to go fast...and they want it bad!

The only thing XU and Butler have to do when the invitation formally arrives is click the "accept" button. They won't be paying the exit fee. It will come off the top for the TV deal.

[paulxu]

Well, they will be saying good-by to a lot of NCAA credit $

[Masterofreality]

The only thing XU and Butler have to do when the invitation formally arrives is click the "accept" button. They won't be paying the exit fee. It will come off the top for the TV deal.

Oh yeah, there is no answer but "yes...accept". XU does have to pay the exit fee to the A10 however, which for less than a one year notice is $2 million- not an insignificant chunk of change, but the difference in the Fox TV deal and he piddling A-10 deal more than makes up for the exit fee in he first year.

I'm just pissed that Fordham gets to benefit from our earned NCAA Tourney credits.

[waggy]

I would not be shocked at all if it started in 2013.
If Fox Sports 1 starts in August as projected, they will need inventory in the winter.
Why not start right off with something that helps them kick off the new network and competes in basketball.
A few million dollars to them, one way or the other, doesn't make that much difference.
They are looking to set up a competitor to the dominance ESPN has had in a 24 hours sports network for the last 20 years.
Might as well start off on the right foot.

I agree with you. I also wonder who in their right minds wants to put together a schedule for 18 teams? NY Times is saying the BE name is for sale... I think everyone just wants to end this thing and move on. It really makes the most sense for all involved.

[LA Muskie]

Well, they will be saying good-by to a lot of NCAA credit $

You've got to spend money to make money. Trust me (having had this conversation last week) we are more than prepared for the short-term financial repercussions.

[LA Muskie]

Oh yeah, there is no answer but "yes...accept". XU does have to pay the exit fee to the A10 however, which for less than a one year notice is $2 million- not an insignificant chunk of change, but the difference in the Fox TV deal and he piddling A-10 deal more than makes up for the exit fee in he first year.

I'm just pissed that Fordham gets to benefit from our earned NCAA Tourney credits.

It certainly is not insignificant. But exit fees for all schools will be treated as startup costs that will be reimbursed first, before the schools start divvying up the revenue (to the extent not paid directly by the TV network).

[paulxu]

There seems to be some difference in our situation versus the C7 schools. If I understand the article correctly, there is a pot of money the BE has at its disposal.
Exit fee $ from schools who have agreed to pay to go to other conferences, and NCAA credits they are leaving behind. (Syracuse for example)
That pot is under the control of the 10 voting members (C7 +3) until July 1st when new members come onboard (Temple, etc.)
Since the C7 departure is a little different (not accepting invite from another conference, but forming their own) then they can set up a different agreement that may act sort of like dissolution of the conference than accepting an invite with exit fees, etc. and the C7 holds a majority vote...although 70% may not be the 75% needed for full control.
The big difference seems to be the C7 schools will get some of their pot, and in this window can use it to negotiate the exit, naming rights, etc.
X will be leaving all its $ behind.

I still think there's a good chance it'll happen, primarily because Fox wants it to, and has committed to investing in its ESPN competitor.

[xu95]

Oh yeah, there is no answer but "yes...accept". XU does have to pay the exit fee to the A10 however, which for less than a one year notice is $2 million- not an insignificant chunk of change, but the difference in the Fox TV deal and he piddling A-10 deal more than makes up for the exit fee in he first year.

I'm just pissed that Fordham gets to benefit from our earned NCAA Tourney credits.

I believe you might have doubled it up. If I remember correctly from Temple's planned departure, it is 500k if you give more than 12 months notice and 1 Million if you give less.

I could definitely be wrong though.

[xu95]

There seems to be some difference in our situation versus the C7 schools. If I understand the article correctly, there is a pot of money the BE has at its disposal.
Exit fee $ from schools who have agreed to pay to go to other conferences, and NCAA credits they are leaving behind. (Syracuse for example)
That pot is under the control of the 10 voting members (C7 +3) until July 1st when new members come onboard (Temple, etc.)
Since the C7 departure is a little different (not accepting invite from another conference, but forming their own) then they can set up a different agreement that may act sort of like dissolution of the conference than accepting an invite with exit fees, etc. and the C7 holds a majority vote...although 70% may not be the 75% needed for full control.
The big difference seems to be the C7 schools will get some of their pot, and in this window can use it to negotiate the exit, naming rights, etc.
X will be leaving all its $ behind.

I still think there's a good chance it'll happen, primarily because Fox wants it to, and has committed to investing in its ESPN competitor.

Xavier is leaving a boatload of money behind whether they go in 2013 or 2014. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The only thing that will change is the amount of the exit fee and even if it is a million dollars more, Xavier makes that up getting 3 mill a year from a TV contract vs 350k very quickly.

[BMoreX]

I believe you might have doubled it up. If I remember correctly from Temple's planned departure, it is 500k if you give more than 12 months notice and 1 Million if you give less.

I could definitely be wrong though.

In Andy Katz's article today, it said $2 million for a 2013 departure.

[GoMuskies]

It really doesn't matter whether it's a million or two million. No one's going to let a difference of a million dollars hold this up. Unless they're idiots.

[xubrew]

Has anyone heard rumors about the C7 playing one season just as a conference of seven??

If true, I find that interesting for a lot of reasons.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Has anyone heard rumors about the C7 playing one season just as a conference of seven??

If true, I find that interesting for a lot of reasons.

I have heard that could happen, again if the price is good it will happen,

The offer to get out now for the C7 is there now, if I remember correct cash on hand from Credits and depature fee's is 60+ million for the 10 teams + more credits that are uncollected. I have seen things from The C7 gets a get out of jail card+ the name, but most leave all money with the football schools..
So that is what is going on now, Can they reach a price and go? Fox is putting some preasure to get this done, I am not sure how much. Fox will anounce there New Sport Network change on Monday...

Anyway the C7 understand if this happens quick some schools may not be able to exit as fast.

[SM#24]

The gap season of only the C7 has been tossed around for a while. Not sure how viable it is. If the net sum of Xavier/Butler leaving early is a gain (increased TV dollars offset by increased exit fees), then I doubt the one year C7 only will happen; but if it's a significant loss, then it might just happen if the C7 are that eager to leave. Not sure how much Louisville/ND/Rutgers are a part of the departure talks. I'm guessing those that are leaving want to do so immediately, it's just a matter of how much those that are staying are trying to extort for that to happen.

[BBC 08]

This is a random thought but would the conference change up affect either Gtown, Butler, or our participation in this tournament due to it looking like there are only 2 teams per conference?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8274359/nike-schools-commit-16-team-mega-event-honor-phil-knight

[SM#24]

Who knows since the event is pretty far off still. Probably have to wait until the dust settles as UNC, UConn, Duke could be on the move as well before the Nike event happens.

[GoMuskies]

Not sure how much Louisville/ND/Rutgers are a part of the departure talks. I'm guessing those that are leaving want to do so immediately, it's just a matter of how much those that are staying are trying to extort for that to happen.

The ACC football schedule for 2013 has already been released. I think any window for Louisville to join the ACC prior to 2014 has closed.

[paulxu]

The ACC football schedule for 2013 has already been released. I think any window for Louisville to join the ACC prior to 2014 has closed.

If the C7 leave, would they let Louisville join the ACC for basketball only in 2013-14?

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

This is a random thought but would the conference change up affect either Gtown, Butler, or our participation in this tournament due to it looking like there are only 2 teams per conference?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8274359/nike-schools-commit-16-team-mega-event-honor-phil-knight

Perhaps. But don't worry, Dayton can substitute us. They are "elite" every November.

[GoMuskies]

If the C7 leave, would they let Louisville join the ACC for basketball only in 2013-14?

I don't think that's possible. You can't be in two different conferences at the same time (when they both offer the same sports).

[SM#24]

You can't be in two different conferences at the same time (when they both offer the same sports).
I agree except that anything is possible.

[GoMuskies]

I think that is one thing that is actually still impossible.

[MADXSTER]

So is it Possibly impossible or Impossibly posible?? :dizzy:

[El Shaqtus]

Perhaps. But don't worry, Dayton can substitute us. They are "elite" every November.

The "Preseason Conference Champion" many years running!

[MHettel]

I don't think that's possible. You can't be in two different conferences at the same time (when they both offer the same sports).

Unless you are Temple which played football in the Big East for years while playing Basketball in the A-10.

Dont confuse something that rarely happens with something that cant happen.

[GoMuskies]

The A-10 doesn't offer FBS (I-A) football. That's the key difference.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Katz today on espn, fyi

1. The seven non-FBS Big East schools have always wanted to exit for the 2013-14 season if they could get out in time and the TV deal -- with Fox -- was done. The problem is they can’t and don’t want to leave, according to a high-level source within the seven, until they have secured the other three schools to be a 10-team league. The seven are confident, though, that they can extract three schools (likely Butler, Xavier and one other) on short notice. The Atlantic 10 confirmed that it would cost each school $2 million to get out early, money that won’t be an issue for the seven and Fox to offset. The logistics of setting up a league, including soccer in August, are what could keep the seven in the Big East until the fall of 2014.

[ammtd34]

The A-10 doesn't offer FBS (I-A) football. That's the key difference.

Yep. Like SEC soccer.

[LA Muskie]

Has anyone heard rumors about the C7 playing one season just as a conference of seven??

If true, I find that interesting for a lot of reasons.
It is theoretically possible. But my understanding that both XU and Butler would be ready to go as soon as the new conference is ready. So odds are that it would start with at least 9. And my guess is #10 -- whichever it is -- would also be willing to bolt early to get in on the 1st year splash.

[LA Muskie]

Katz today on espn, fyi

1. The seven non-FBS Big East schools have always wanted to exit for the 2013-14 season if they could get out in time and the TV deal -- with Fox -- was done. The problem is they can’t and don’t want to leave, according to a high-level source within the seven, until they have secured the other three schools to be a 10-team league. The seven are confident, though, that they can extract three schools (likely Butler, Xavier and one other) on short notice. The Atlantic 10 confirmed that it would cost each school $2 million to get out early, money that won’t be an issue for the seven and Fox to offset. The logistics of setting up a league, including soccer in August, are what could keep the seven in the Big East until the fall of 2014.
This is exactly what I have heard as well. We are all thinking about getting a new conference started in time for 2013-14 basketball, but in reality a new conference has to be set up in time for fall sports. My guess is that there are ongoing behind-the-scenes logistical discussions so that the new conference isn't starting from square one once it is official, but that's just hopeful conjecture on my part.

[coasterville95]

Didn't one of our helpful guest posters (maybe SFF, maybe somebody else) - indicate that there has been at least one conference call between the C7 and XU/Butler in regards to the Soccer program. Methinks that work is already afoot on the fall sports front.

[JTG]

Katz today on espn, fyi

1. The seven non-FBS Big East schools have always wanted to exit for the 2013-14 season if they could get out in time and the TV deal -- with Fox -- was done. The problem is they can’t and don’t want to leave, according to a high-level source within the seven, until they have secured the other three schools to be a 10-team league. The seven are confident, though, that they can extract three schools (likely Butler, Xavier and one other) on short notice. The Atlantic 10 confirmed that it would cost each school $2 million to get out early, money that won’t be an issue for the seven and Fox to offset. The logistics of setting up a league, including soccer in August, are what could keep the seven in the Big East until the fall of 2014.

Seriously ??? Soccer is holding this up ? Seriously ???

[DC Muskie]

Seriously ??? Soccer is holding this up ? Seriously ???

I have the same outrage.

Why on earth would we push this back? Because we can't put together a soccer schedule in six months?

[paulxu]

Quick Rick weighs in to help us. Is he Catholic?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/02/28/rick-pitino-larry-brown-big-east-future/1954569/

[paulxu]

Heck, ND is on the same bandwagon. They must have talked this morning.
Or, maybe they're mad the BE turned down last year's contract, and the ACC is heading for implosion. Who knows.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/193937081.html

[Stephen FriarFan]

Quick Rick weighs in to help us. Is he Catholic?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/02/28/rick-pitino-larry-brown-big-east-future/1954569/

Rick has always , and still has a soft spot for Providence , and for the most part the fans in Providence still like Rick..,

[BMoreX]

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365

[paulxu]

Hold everything. Done deal?

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2013/2/28/4040946/catholic-7-leave-big-east-conference-realignment

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365

Voting tomorrow?
Sorry if this is old news, re-worked. Seems like a little more steam is building.

[paulxu]

It sounds like they got about $20 million of the $60-70 million pot of exit fees/NCAA credits (most of which they earned) to start the C7 with.
That's an expensive price to pay for BE name and MSG, but I'm assuming they know what the hell they are doing.

Now....this is important. Will MOR be able to sleep at night knowing X is in a league called the Big East?

[GoMuskies]

MOR has allways loved the Big East. Starting tomorrow.

[coasterville95]

Very exciting. Yes the steam is rapidly building, must mean something is about to happen.

Standing in the kitchen waiting for the tea pot to whistle!

Just think if we have in fact made our last official trips to such fine venues as Rose Hill Gym, Tom Golas Garage, Hagan,s Hangar.

Last trip to UD Arena???

[D-West & PO-Z]

Seriously ??? Soccer is holding this up ? Seriously ???

This, haha

[paulxu]

What I think will be interesting is the GU/Marquette dynamic.
If they go in Sept, and go with 10, who wins?
1 - GU and gets Richmond for 6 in the East, and a balancer for Butler
2 - Marquette who gets Creighton in for a 5/5 split East/West. Or...Dayton...or St Louis....

ps. Oh yeah...Richmond dropped soccer for lacrosse (!!!???), which caused longtime board member/big donor Bobby Ukrop to resign.

[_LH]

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365

If true...whoo hooo!

[MarvAlbert]

This is a random thought but would the conference change up affect either Gtown, Butler, or our participation in this tournament due to it looking like there are only 2 teams per conference?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8274359/nike-schools-commit-16-team-mega-event-honor-phil-knight

Or the 2013 Battle 4 Atlantis (http://www.battle4atlantis.com)? We are in the field with Villanova. I guess if we both stay in the tournament, Xavier could end up playing Wake Forest twice (unless they cancel/postpone the Skip Prosser Classic again), Tennessee twice, and/or Villanova 4 times (Battle 4 Atlantis, 2 conference games, conference tournament) next year.

[GoMuskies]

So I think this ESPN report is new. With ESPN reporting it, it must be basically over. There also seems to be a possibility of being in a league with Notre Dame for one year. That might be good.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9000502/catholic-7-schools-keep-big-east-name-new-league-next-season-according-sources

[Stephen FriarFan]

I guess fox wanted some big news for that Monday press conference they are holding..

This is a done deal with fox helping to make up some of the money that will be lost by C7 schools and exit fee's that new members may pay..

I think the name means as much to Fox at it does to the C7....hang on news for the weekend..

[GoMuskies]

All of our Xavier basketball dreams (short of a Final Four or national championship) seem to be coming true.

[paulxu]

Yikes...ND for one year, then 3 for 12 in 2014 with no Richmond.
Butler will be a real outlier.

[Tu 4 MVP]

Jeff Goodman is reporting that Xavier and Butler may be the only teams added to the 7. A 9 team conference means you can play every school twice.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21787349/catholic-7-looking-at-nine-schools-might-stop-there

[Muskie1000]

So the questions still remains, who is the final team. OOps sorry, didn't see that. I'm surprised they will stick with 9.

[GoMuskies]

They may be saving a spot for Notre Dame (for a year). I assume that's a big driver behind sticking at 9 for a year.

[GoMuskies]

All this news at a time when we are Pope-less!

[sgarcia]

I have a feeling little brother will be joining the league in 2014 along with St Louis and Creighton. At least that is what I got from an article I read.