Catholic 7 News

[Masterofreality]

I thought I saw on Twitter that part of the expected agreement is that while the BE7 is giving up a bunch of that money from the existing pot, they get to keep the Big East tourney credits for the NBE.

Has anyone else heard something like that?

Nope. they are keeping their Tourney Credits. What they are giving up is their share of all of the exit fees, entry fees and other stuff that has been accumulated. if they all stuck around, they would have shared $11 million. as it is, they're getting about 1.3 million out of the pot and UCon, SucKS and USF get about $33 million apiece. The 7 do not have to pay an exit fee because they were charter members. They are also getting MSG and the name.

They would have gotten a lot less TV money. The "Metro" schools will only make about 2 million a year from the new ESPN TV deal. The New Big East schools will get 4 million approx.

Hopefully, Fox will pay our $2 million exit fee. We'll lose our credits to crap like Fordham. That's OK. Get us the F out of this joke.

[LA Muskie]

Nope. they are keeping their Tourney Credits. What they are giving up is their share of all of the exit fees, entry fees and other stuff that has been accumulated. if they all stuck around, they would have shared $11 million. as it is, they're getting about 1.3 million out of the pot and UCon, SucKS and USF get about $33 million apiece. The 7 do not have to pay an exit fee because they were charter members. They are also getting MSG and the name.

They would have gotten a lot less TV money. The "Metro" schools will only make about 2 million a year from the new ESPN TV deal. The New Big East schools will get 4 million approx.

Hopefully, Fox will pay our $2 million exit fee. We'll lose our credits to crap like Fordham. That's OK. Get us the F out of this joke.

Our exit fee is being covered by Fox. Whether that is a direct payment or comes off the top of the conference's TV take before distribution to its members, I don't know. But we will not be shouldering that ourselves. We will probably lose our credits -- I don't expect Fox or the conference will make us whole in that regard. The fact is that everyone is sacrificing something in the short term (for us it will be the credits, for the C7 it will be their share of Big East cash reserves -- mostly in the form of accumulated exit fees -- but also any interest in NCAA credits earned by non-C7 schools). The upside more than covers it.

[GoMuskies]

Looks like we're going to have our answer soon enough on whether Notre Dame still wants to go to the ACC. The ACC is saying come on in now: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9022342/notre-dame-fighting-irish-join-acc-summer-school-negotiate-big-east-exit-according-sources

[PM Thor]

So it's Thursday most likely. This guy has been pretty spot on with his reporting, and so I doubt they will name X specifically tomorrow, but I would say that it's happening very, very soon. And dayton can suck eggs waiting for a non existent call...

I HATE dayton.http://ajerseyguy.com/

[GoMuskies]

Looks like next week for Xavier according to that article.

And if Blaudschun is right, Notre Dame is headed to the ACC next year. And from reading this board I thought ND was doing everything they could to avoid having to join the ACC.

[Muskie1000]

Really? All this news conference is going to spell out is what we already pretty much know. We have to wait at least another week before they officially "invite" other teams. Can they drag this on any longer than it is?

[Masterofreality]

Done deal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21825928/catholic-seven-set-to-make-it-official-start-new-league-on-july-1

[GoMuskies]

It's kind of fitting that Xavier and Butler are playing on Saturday. Sure, we're kind of developing into rivals, but this Saturday's game is really a celebration of our shared future (hating each other) in the Big East.

[GoMuskies]

While I'm having random thoughts related to this news, does Xavier's move to the Big East change the dynamics of the negotiations with UC as to what happens with the Shootout after next season? Seems like Xavier is going to be in a position of greater power in that discussion than we were this past year when the horrendous downtown deal was struck.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Its funny next year when you play them it will say Big East on your shirts , and on UC's ????

[muskiefan82]

Its funny next year when you play them it will say Big East on your shirts , and on UC's ????

Perhaps "used to BE"

[Masterofreality]

Its funny next year when you play them it will say Big East on your shirts , and on UC's ????

By all reports...."America 12"

Really. America 12. :lol::lol:

[Masterofreality]

While I'm having random thoughts related to this news, does Xavier's move to the Big East change the dynamics of the negotiations with UC as to what happens with the Shootout after next season? Seems like Xavier is going to be in a position of greater power in that discussion than we were this past year when the horrendous downtown deal was struck.

Sippin' Mick will think that the game is too tough for his OOC schedule. Replacement = Grambling

[Masterofreality]

And there's this:

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74708080/

[coasterville95]

Maybe not next year, didn't they sign a 2 year contract for the Crosstown Classic. They may already have promised the event to US Bank Arena (and the money that comes with it), that and it would be seen as a public shafting on their promise to support the Freedom Center.

Mick better start taking scheduling lessons from us, before he always said they could schedule the pastry cart because they will get their good wins in conference. Once they are starting to play C-USA again, they will need to strengthen their OOC schedule.

[xu95]

Doesn't sound promising from the President of Dayton. Maybe he got the thanks but no thanks phone call last night.

“When push comes to shove, those (presidents) have to make the decisions that are best for their institutions. …. The good thing is, the fact we’re in the A-10, and it is a strong conference — we’re blessed with that. We’ll just have to wait and see,” Curran said.

[RealDeal]

Maybe not next year, didn't they sign a 2 year contract for the Crosstown Classic. They may already have promised the event to US Bank Arena (and the money that comes with it), that and it would be seen as a public shafting on their promise to support the Freedom Center.

Mick better start taking scheduling lessons from us, before he always said they could schedule the pastry cart because they will get their good wins in conference. Once they are starting to play C-USA again, they will need to strengthen their OOC schedule.

If UC's OOC schedule is already set for next year, and they are kicked out of the Big East and won't have those low RPI games in conference, they could have one of the worst schedules in the country next year.

[Masterofreality]

And this......A Primer


http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21826120/five-questions-and-answers-about-our-new-nationally-relevant-league

[xudash]

And this......A Primer


http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21826120/five-questions-and-answers-about-our-new-nationally-relevant-league

Fox seems to be going in a direction of putting together a package designed for 12 teams, but has acquiesced on the size of the conference out of the gate, starting the conference out with 10 teams. I've concluded that logistical issues are the primary reason for that; a short timeframe is available to put together conference schedules for all conference sports for all 10 members.

If we accept that it will go to 12 teams in order to deliver the amount of content required by Fox for driving this property to a marque position in its line-up, then which schools will truly round this thing out?

The answer to that question has to involve whatever maximizes Fox's advertising value to its clients. It just has to be that way. It isn't about an available pool of candidates, because we already know that we're dealing with 2 spots and that, at a minimum, SLU, Richmond and Dayton fit the desired profile for membership.

So we're down to the revenue question; we're down to answering what maximizes ad revenue for Fox.

What does that:

Market size, based on the fact that the reconfigured Fox channel kicks off in 90 million households right out of the gate?

New market, based on the same above fact?

Viewership within each market among the competing schools?

A non-market specific point of view, but one that is based on an analysis of which added team will bring some level of national viewership appeal over time?

I am sitting here waiting for an answer, because, the last criterion, at the margin, has to be virtually impossible to measure.

And because of that, the first two criteria seem to make sense to me. And because those two make sense, at least to me, that puts SLU into the new conference at #11.

Then it's a call between the Fox executives and the conference leadership that goes something like this:

Fox Exec: "We're down to the final school for addition. Our modeling shows advantages for both Richmond and Dayton, but understanding that Richmond will provide a truly new market (i.e. state). Forget how TV people measure markets, so forget about the dynamics of the television marketplace in Southwestern Ohio. The fact is that Richmond is in Virginia, and Dayton is butting up against Xavier in Ohio. On that note, we're relatively indifferent, but would suggest you consider Richmond if you think Richmond can deliver higher fan support as a result of this upgrade."

Conference Exec: "Thank you for your analysis. If it's that close, and given Richmond's quality as an institution and the fact that they're actually putting money into the Robbins Center now, and given that we've seen positive elasticity in their fan base (i.e. growth/response in attendance when they're winning) we'll go with Richmond. If it's this close on the television metric, then we can go with Richmond for geographic balance purposes, believing that the program will respond and strengthen as a result of this new league affiliation.

SO WOULD ANYONE CARE TO CHIME IN AND TELL ME IF THIS MAKES SENSE, OR DOES DAYTON TRULY HOLD AN ADVANTAGE AS THE FINAL FILLER SCHOOL FOR THE (N)BE THAT I SIMPLY AM MISSING?

[DC Muskie]

Here's just my guess...

If Dayton is added, then Fox demanded they get in because of the ratings they bring in.

What I don't get is...if Marquette wanted Creighton and Georgetown wanted Richmond, and everyone else would be fine with St. Louis, then why would Dayton be mentioned if Georgetown's desired partner wasn't added. That's what I don't understand.

[MHettel]

Fox seems to be going in a direction of putting together a package designed for 12 teams, but has acquiesced on the size of the conference out of the gate, starting the conference out with 10 teams. I've concluded that logistical issues are the primary reason for that; a short timeframe is available to put together conference schedules for all conference sports for all 10 members.

If we accept that it will go to 12 teams in order to deliver the amount of content required by Fox for driving this property to a marque position in its line-up, then which schools will truly round this thing out?

The answer to that question has to involve whatever maximizes Fox's advertising value to its clients. It just has to be that way. It isn't about an available pool of candidates, because we already know that we're dealing with 2 spots and that, at a minimum, SLU, Richmond and Dayton fit the desired profile for membership.

So we're down to the revenue question; we're down to answering what maximizes ad revenue for Fox.

What does that:

Market size, based on the fact that the reconfigured Fox channel kicks off in 90 million households right out of the gate?

New market, based on the same above fact?

Viewership within each market among the competing schools?

A non-market specific point of view, but one that is based on an analysis of which added team will bring some level of national viewership appeal over time?

I am sitting here waiting for an answer, because, the last criterion, at the margin, has to be virtually impossible to measure.

And because of that, the first two criteria seem to make sense to me. And because those two make sense, at least to me, that puts SLU into the new conference at #11.

Then it's a call between the Fox executives and the conference leadership that goes something like this:

Fox Exec: "We're down to the final school for addition. Our modeling shows advantages for both Richmond and Dayton, but understanding that Richmond will provide a truly new market (i.e. state). Forget how TV people measure markets, so forget about the dynamics of the television marketplace in Southwestern Ohio. The fact is that Richmond is in Virginia, and Dayton is butting up against Xavier in Ohio. On that note, we're relatively indifferent, but would suggest you consider Richmond if you think Richmond can deliver higher fan support as a result of this upgrade."

Conference Exec: "Thank you for your analysis. If it's that close, and given Richmond's quality as an institution and the fact that they're actually putting money into the Robbins Center now, and given that we've seen positive elasticity in their fan base (i.e. growth/response in attendance when they're winning) we'll go with Richmond. If it's this close on the television metric, then we can go with Richmond for geographic balance purposes, believing that the program will respond and strengthen as a result of this new league affiliation.

SO WOULD ANYONE CARE TO CHIME IN AND TELL ME IF THIS MAKES SENSE, OR DOES DAYTON TRULY HOLD AN ADVANTAGE AS THE FINAL FILLER SCHOOL FOR THE (N)BE THAT I SIMPLY AM MISSING?

It's not the CASE FOR Richmond that swings the decision. It's the CASE AGAINST DAYTON that does it. Too much overlap with Cincy. And Peopel in Dayton already watch a shit-ton of college basketball, and UD isn't even really on TV that much. You are trying to get NEW VIEWERS.

Case Closed.

[X-band '01]

Really? All this news conference is going to spell out is what we already pretty much know. We have to wait at least another week before they officially "invite" other teams. Can they drag this on any longer than it is?

The upside of a delayed announcement would be to ensure that X and Butler aren't banned from Brooklyn. The A-10 can never be trusted.

[DC Muskie]

It's not the CASE FOR Richmond that swings the decision. It's the CASE AGAINST DAYTON that does it. Too much overlap with Cincy. And Peopel in Dayton already watch a shit-ton of college basketball, and UD isn't even really on TV that much. You are trying to get NEW VIEWERS.

Case Closed.

What's the difference between new viewers and just plain old viewers?

If this is a league that gets people in Toledo to watch Nova and Georgetown, who really gives a rats ass who the 11th and 12th teams are?

That's why I hate the idea of expanding it past 9 teams. The 11th and 12th teams are going to be about maximizing the viewership. "New Viewers" aren't going to come from the Richmond market.

[paulxu]

You can save a lot of money for other sports by busing people to Richmond from the east 5, plus you can get a lot of Hoyas to drive to Richmond...not so much to Dayton. I like Richmond for 12. We can handle Ohio. Get a new market in Virginia.

And if UC is in it, it's the little east...always will be.

[BMoreX]

How's this look for a quick photoshop job?

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6701/cintask.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/cintask.jpg/)

[BMoreX]

Andy Katz's last blog:

1. At least one coach in the new Big East, filled with the Catholic 7 schools and likely Butler and Xavier, has been told to anticipate a 16-game schedule next season, according to one source with knowledge of the situation. That would force the seven Big East schools -- Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette -- to get two more non-conference games after playing 18 in the Big East this season. Of course, if Creighton is chosen as the 10th member for next season instead of in 2014, the league can pull off a true round-robin, 18-game league schedule, much like the Big 12. That's what the league should do to have a major splash in Year 1. The league's new television partner, expected to be Fox, would probably like to have two more games per team to show.

That would be a 9 team, round-robin conference schedule.

[muskiefan82]

Andy Katz's last blog:

1. At least one coach in the new Big East, filled with the Catholic 7 schools and likely Butler and Xavier, has been told to anticipate a 16-game schedule next season, according to one source with knowledge of the situation. That would force the seven Big East schools -- Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette -- to get two more non-conference games after playing 18 in the Big East this season. Of course, if Creighton is chosen as the 10th member for next season instead of in 2014, the league can pull off a true round-robin, 18-game league schedule, much like the Big 12. That's what the league should do to have a major splash in Year 1. The league's new television partner, expected to be Fox, would probably like to have two more games per team to show.

That would be a 9 team, round-robin conference schedule.


This would be phenomenal. 1167

[DC Muskie]

Andy Katz's last blog:

1. At least one coach in the new Big East, filled with the Catholic 7 schools and likely Butler and Xavier, has been told to anticipate a 16-game schedule next season, according to one source with knowledge of the situation. That would force the seven Big East schools -- Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette -- to get two more non-conference games after playing 18 in the Big East this season. Of course, if Creighton is chosen as the 10th member for next season instead of in 2014, the league can pull off a true round-robin, 18-game league schedule, much like the Big 12. That's what the league should do to have a major splash in Year 1. The league's new television partner, expected to be Fox, would probably like to have two more games per team to show.

That would be a 9 team, round-robin conference schedule.

I could have one year of total basketball bliss.

Please Sweet Baby Jesus let this happen.

[paulxu]

You understand that a 16 team conference schedule could also be 12 schools, 2 division, 5/5 with your division, 6 with the other.

[JTG]

By all reports...."America 12"

Really. America 12. :lol::lol:

Appropriate ...the average UC player's IQ is somewhere in that neighborhood.

[GoMuskies]

I'd rather have a 10 team, 18 game round-robin as opposed to a 9 team, 16 game round-robin. But either will work.

[chico]

Some poster on the UC boards named HMettel thinks they should go independent.

[SM#24]

You understand that a 16 team conference schedule could also be 12 schools, 2 division, 5/5 with your division, 6 with the other.

Conferences with 12+ schools w/o divisions: ACC, A10, BEast, Big Ten, Pac12, SEC, CUSA, MEAC, NEC
Conferences with 12+ schools w/ divisions: Big South, MAC, OVC, SoCon
Other Conferences w/ divisions: Sun Belts 11 teams (6/5 splt), Southland 10 teams (6/4 split)

[PM Thor]

By all reports...."America 12"

Really. America 12. :lol::lol:


Why would they bring back the name of a conference that was mediocre at best? It's like labelling itself as a middling conference just by evoking a historic middling conference. A new name is easy to do. The American Conference. Tadaa! Easily there are 20 new names so much better than rehashing an old, used up name.

I HATE dayton.

I was kidding around and came up with American conference. Seems they put a lot of thought into it too...sounds like a two bit movie theater.

I HATE dayton.

[LA Muskie]

You understand that a 16 team conference schedule could also be 12 schools, 2 division, 5/5 with your division, 6 with the other.
That is mathematically true. But it's not an option. The 2013-14 season absolutely, positively WILL NOT have 12 teams.

[xubrew]

It's not the CASE FOR Richmond that swings the decision. It's the CASE AGAINST DAYTON that does it. Too much overlap with Cincy. And Peopel in Dayton already watch a shit-ton of college basketball, and UD isn't even really on TV that much. You are trying to get NEW VIEWERS.

Case Closed.

Overlap is actually good.

Ask Duke and North Carolina, or USC and UCLA, or any pair of conference rivals.

The reason is simple. If UCLA and USC were in two different conferences and on two different networks, chances are half the city would watch one game, and other half would watch the other. Now, if they're in the same conference on the same network, chances are both sets of fans would watch both games. Rivals watch each other. That's why the network will often stagger the start times, or even schedule them on different nights. Instead of getting half the city once, you get the entire city twice.

It's my understanding that the networks wanted Dayton. it's Marquette that doesn't. They want Creighton. The reason they want Creighton has nothing to do with ratings. It's because Creighton's president is on Marquette's board of trustees. It's political and self serving. It has nothing to do with ratings. The ratings people actually want Dayton in.

[Masterofreality]

If the dump is so desperate to join, we should charge them a $50 million entrance fee.

Hell, the aggravation that their fans put everyone through is worth double that!

[LA Muskie]

I don't know for sure that XUBrew is right, but he often is. And I can add one thing: none of the universities -- NONE -- are advocating for the inclusion of Dayton. Yet they are in the discussion. Do the math.

[MHettel]

I'd rather have a 10 team, 18 game round-robin as opposed to a 9 team, 16 game round-robin. But either will work.

potential negative RPI impact for the entire conference for an 18 game schedule vs. a 16 game schedule.

I'd rather each team have 2 less conference games, and be able to schedule 2 more non-con games. Assume 9 teams in the league, thats 18 more games vs. non-con opponents. Some "smart" scheduling could result in an overall record of say 12-6, which would forever be part of the RPI for all the teams. the alternative is you have 18 more conference games which would GUARANTEE a record of 18-18, which means THAT result is forever in your RPI.

The goal is to win alot of OOC games, and bring a high winning percentage into conference play.

[LA Muskie]

potential negative RPI impact for the entire conference for an 18 game schedule vs. a 16 game schedule.

I'd rather each team have 2 less conference games, and be able to schedule 2 more non-con games. Assume 9 teams in the league, thats 18 more games vs. non-con opponents. Some "smart" scheduling could result in an overall record of say 12-6, which would forever be part of the RPI for all the teams. the alternative is you have 18 more conference games which would GUARANTEE a record of 18-18, which means THAT result is forever in your RPI.

The goal is to win alot of OOC games, and bring a high winning percentage into conference play.
I would rather have annual home/aways with the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and St. Johns. I am willing to risk the RPI effect, although I'm also confident Mario could manage it.

[MHettel]

Overlap is actually good.

Ask Duke and North Carolina, or USC and UCLA, or any pair of conference rivals.

The reason is simple. If UCLA and USC were in two different conferences and on two different networks, chances are half the city would watch one game, and other half would watch the other. Now, if they're in the same conference on the same network, chances are both sets of fans would watch both games. Rivals watch each other. That's why the network will often stagger the start times, or even schedule them on different nights. Instead of getting half the city once, you get the entire city twice.

It's my understanding that the networks wanted Dayton. it's Marquette that doesn't. They want Creighton. The reason they want Creighton has nothing to do with ratings. It's because Creighton's president is on Marquette's board of trustees. It's political and self serving. It has nothing to do with ratings. The ratings people actually want Dayton in.

I dont believe much of what you are sying holds much water. Peopel in Dayton watch alot of College basketball. That much we know. Addign Dayton to the conference wont get MORE Dayton people to watch college basketball. So, maybe adding Dayton to the conference will get more people OUTSIDE of Dayton to watch more.....I dont think so.

If people in Omaha just watch SOME college basketball, then suddenly they are in a conference that is on TV all the time then the people that watch SOME will probably watch MORE, and the people that watch NONE could possibly watch SOME.

Dayton has NO NATIONAL APPEAL. NONE. I'm not saying Richmond does, but at least you get a whole new market. I would say both Creighton and SLU have more national appeal than Dayton. AND those 2 markets have bigger upside.

And honestly, to use UCLA/USC and Duke / UNC as your comps is just desperate.

[MHettel]

I would rather have annual home/aways with the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and St. Johns. I am willing to risk the RPI effect, although I'm also confident Mario could manage it.

You have to manage the RPI effect by sceduling more cupcakes. And so would every other team in the conference.

[GoMuskies]

I think we will finally be in a conference where managing the RPI effect won't be muc of a concern.

[MHettel]

I don't know for sure that XUBrew is right, but he often is. And I can add one thing: none of the universities -- NONE -- are advocating for the inclusion of Dayton. Yet they are in the discussion. Do the math.

I'll do the math. the NETWORK gets to decide how much they will pay for the teams. the conference membership decides on the teams, but the network gets to decide how much those teams are worth.

I dont beleive for one minute that the network thinks DAYTON is worth more to them, hence worth more to the conference, and the membership would overlook that. Not buying.

[PM Thor]

Must admit, reading all these reasons to leave dayton in the dust has brought a tear to my eye. It just makes me so, so happy.

I HATE dayton.

[LA Muskie]

I'll do the math. the NETWORK gets to decide how much they will pay for the teams. the conference membership decides on the teams, but the network gets to decide how much those teams are worth.

I dont beleive for one minute that the network thinks DAYTON is worth more to them, hence worth more to the conference, and the membership would overlook that. Not buying.
All I can tell you is what I know. And I know a lot on this topic. None of the schools are promoting Dayton as an option. Yet by all reports it is in fact an option. There is only one other party at the table. If the schools aren't promoting Dayton, then Fox is. Or the media is just completely off on that one. Those are the only two options.

(And for what it is worth, I will tell you that in all of my discussions when I was in Cincy a few weeks ago, the only mention of Dayton -- and it was just once -- was that they should be sweating. So this may be something that all the media has cooked up with no inside source.)

[paulxu]

OK. Today is Thursday. Was there some sort of announcement I missed?

[Masterofreality]

All I can tell you is what I know. And I know a lot on this topic. None of the schools are promoting Dayton as an option. Yet by all reports it is in fact an option. There is only one other party at the table. If the schools aren't promoting Dayton, then Fox is. Or the media is just completely off on that one. Those are the only two options.

(And for what it is worth, I will tell you that in all of my discussions when I was in Cincy a few weeks ago, the only mention of Dayton -- and it was just once -- was that they should be sweating. So this may be something that all the media has cooked up with no inside source.)

Same here. My understandings are identical to LA's. Xavier does not want the dump in this league. They do not want that pesky ant trying to recruit against it. This could also be guys like Dan Patrick, a Cryer alum, trying to plant a story and hope it grows.

Let 'em rot in the A10 playing Fordham.

[Cheesehead]

Let 'em rot in the A10 playing Fordham.

This.

[waggy]

It doesn't do the C7 any good to make definitive statements to the exact line-up even if they know it. Therefore Dayton gets mentioned a lot.

[xubrew]

I dont believe much of what you are sying holds much water. Peopel in Dayton watch alot of College basketball. That much we know. Addign Dayton to the conference wont get MORE Dayton people to watch college basketball. So, maybe adding Dayton to the conference will get more people OUTSIDE of Dayton to watch more.....I dont think so.

If people in Omaha just watch SOME college basketball, then suddenly they are in a conference that is on TV all the time then the people that watch SOME will probably watch MORE, and the people that watch NONE could possibly watch SOME.

Dayton has NO NATIONAL APPEAL. NONE. I'm not saying Richmond does, but at least you get a whole new market. I would say both Creighton and SLU have more national appeal than Dayton. AND those 2 markets have bigger upside.

And honestly, to use UCLA/USC and Duke / UNC as your comps is just desperate.


I'll do the math. the NETWORK gets to decide how much they will pay for the teams. the conference membership decides on the teams, but the network gets to decide how much those teams are worth.

I dont beleive for one minute that the network thinks DAYTON is worth more to them, hence worth more to the conference, and the membership would overlook that. Not buying.

Every prediction or assessment of yours that I've seen has struck me as being so outrageous that I dont' think you have any understanding at all about any of this.

You once said that backroom deals were taking place for a 24 team conference, and that it was all but a done deal.

You once seemed convinced that George Mason was going to join the conference, and was going to announce it by the end of the week. I think that was back in late April, which would have been one of the most ill timed announcements of all time.

You didn't understand, and still don't, that Dayton is considered a seperate media market.

I talked about how the Big Ten was thinking about splitting into two conferences and having an affilation when it came to its media deal, which is a very simple concept, and you didn't understand it.

I believe that at least one of the networks was very big on Dayton. I know you don't believe it. I know you don't understand it. But, they were, and it makes sense why they wanted them. It also makes sense why Marquette doesn't, and it has nothing to do with anything that you seem to think that it does.

[Masterofreality]

This is really getting me pumped up.

The Big East Tournament at Madison Square Garden....with Xavier as a participant. Let's get it!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--death-of-big-east-tournament--not-so-fast-004710289.html;_ylt=As8VZhuRds5xsbVSXHfe2jMLcykA;_ ylu=X3oDMTFoZnA0Y2I3BG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dG hvcgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXg-;_ylg=X3oDMTFrODdzYXZuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is really getting me pumped up.

The Big East Tournament at Madison Square Garden....with Xavier as a participant. Let's get it!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--death-of-big-east-tournament--not-so-fast-004710289.html;_ylt=As8VZhuRds5xsbVSXHfe2jMLcykA;_ ylu=X3oDMTFoZnA0Y2I3BG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dG hvcgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXg-;_ylg=X3oDMTFrODdzYXZuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3

I am a big Knicks fan as I have mentioned before and have been to MSG on a couple occasions. To see Xavier play in the Mecca is going to be unbelievably awesome. Playing at Barclays this year will be cool but there is nothing like MSG. The place in right in Midtown Manhattan and just has that special feeling about it. There is a reason that the best basketball players in the world have some of their biggest games at MSG. Kobe, MJ, LeBron all with huge games. NBA players on other teams consistently say Madison Square Garden is their favorite place to play.

Can you imagine what it will be like to be able to tell recruits that they are guaranteed to play in MSG every year!? The tournament being there alone is a huge recruiting tool. From Scoop Jardine formerly of the Cuse:

"It's the best tournament in the country," now-graduated Syracuse guard Scoop Jardine said last year. "It's New York City. It's Madison Square Garden. It's the Mecca of basketball. It's a great atmosphere.
"That's one of the main reasons I went to Syracuse, to play in the Big East tournament," the Philadelphia native continued. "I do feel bad for (future Syracuse players who won't experience it.)"


I agree MOR, I am pumped as well. Great things ahead for the Muskies and us fans!

[Grylls]

I'm wondering if one of Xavier or Villanova will have to drop out of the Battle 4 Atlantis tourny next season.

[LA Muskie]

I'm wondering if one of Xavier or Villanova will have to drop out of the Battle 4 Atlantis tourny next season.
Yes. One will.

[El Shaqtus]

Today's news...hurry up and wait.

[xudash]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/lopresti/2013/03/08/big-east-divorce-catholic-7-seven/1970967/

[powerofX]

Yes. One will.

Hopefully its Nova. Direct flight from Charlotte!

[BMoreX]

It's official.

@ESPNAndyKatz: Divorce final for departing Catholic 7. Story up in a few minutes from us. Big East on Big East email letter head said no new name yet.

[SM#24]

I'm wondering if one of Xavier or Villanova will have to drop out of the Battle 4 Atlantis tourny next season.


Yes. One will.

I don't think that's true. I think a similar situation has occurred recently with all the conference movement and those teams were able to stay in their exempt tourney.

[Stephen FriarFan]

It's official.

@ESPNAndyKatz: Divorce final for departing Catholic 7. Story up in a few minutes from us. Big East on Big East email letter head said no new name yet.

Big East Breakup Finally Official: Basketball Schools Move On
per Hartfoed Courant

Link http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-big-east-0309-20130308,0,4428728.story

[Stephen FriarFan]

The presidents of the New Big East ( C7 ) should have a statement soon.

[paulxu]

It's official.

@ESPNAndyKatz: Divorce final for departing Catholic 7. Story up in a few minutes from us. Big East on Big East email letter head said no new name yet.

little east people. This isn't hard.

[coasterville95]

And a big thanks to Stephen for staying with us and keeping us posted on this exciting news from the Big East side of the aisle. (Have to get the niceties in before that first XU/Providence game gets scheduled)

Now we need the C7 press conference and the moment we've all been waiting for, the press conference from Cintas Center announcing our move.

Exciting times all. Though I do wonder if XU will wait until the A10 tournament is over for reasons stated above. Another thought, if it gets announced before the Big East tournament is over - If I am Coach Mack, I try to get my team tickets to the Big East final game (assuming it doesn't conflict with our own schedule or practcices) - and as I am with my team watching the final at MAdison Square Garden, gather around the team ,particularly the underclassmen, and stress "Men, next year it will be YOU playing here at Madison Square Garden!" (Since we've established that MSG is a huge deal to the players). Heck, why wait till next year - if the NCAA doesn't work out for us, take the NIT bid and show them MSG this year!!!

[Masterofreality]

The following was buried in an ESPN story, but haven't seen confirmation anywhere else-

"Adding the new members -- Butler, Xavier and Creighton had officially withdrawn from their current leagues as of early Friday -- is among the immediate challenges for the new league."

I hope it's true and we see the official announcement soon!

[GoMuskies]

I think that was bad writing and missing a "not".

[Masterofreality]

I think that was bad writing and missing a "not".

Well, that would be on ESPN's editor if so.

[Masterofreality]

Yep, here's the correction.

“@McMurphyESPN: Have not withdrawn. Correcting now. Thanks RT @frankthetank111: Butler, Xavier and Creighton have withdrawn from their leagues”

[Stephen FriarFan]

From A Jersyguy;
ajerseyguy.com/

Big East cost of business: $15 million in legal fees?
March 8, 2013 – 2:43 pm
Now that the Big East and Catholic 7 have officially filed their divorce papers, the logical question is: What’s next?
But before any speculation begins, it might be time to take a survey at the landscape. The biggest winners, as is in most domestic disputes, are the lawyers.
Source familiar with the discussions being held during the past three months, estimate that the Big East legal fees could top out at the $15 million range.
Which might explain why there was a money fight over distribution of the remaining funds. If you use the estimate of $100 million in available funds, and immediately take 10 million as compensation for the Catholic 7, $15 million in legal fees and then another $5 million to handle new operating costs which may occur you are down to 70 million to be distributed among the remaining members of the soon to be renamed football conference.
And that total includes money that still must be collected from departing schools such as Rutgers and Louisville. In any scenario, the payouts would not be in one lump sum, but over a period of 5 or 6 years.
Using that formula, even if schools such as UConn, Cincinnati and South Florida were given 30 million, spread over 6 years, a 5 million pay check is not exactly the same as winning the lottery for schools whose budgets are already dealing with increasing deficits.
But moving past the financial matters, the reality of life apart for both groups now looms.
Here’s the way it could unfold.
Let’s start with the Catholic 7 Seton Hall, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Providence and St. John’s. They will move quickly–perhaps as soon as next week in New York– to invite Butler, and Xavier and Creighton, which will make 10 teams for the 2013-2014 season.
Discussions will be held on expanding to 12 teams within a year, with Saint Louis, Dayton and Richmond the primary schools of interest.
The key “inside the ropes” element will be to find a commissioner to put all of this together. And where will the conference offices be located. Right now the debate is between Providence–cheaper and easier to staff with people who know what they are doing, especially in regards to the Big East.-or Washington D.C.
If the Catholic 7 were wise they would focus their attention on former Big East Associate Commissioner Dan Gavitt, who is now running the NCAA basketball tournament.
Gavitt loves his job with the NCAA. But he also loves Providence, and the Big East–since his father Dave Gavitt created the conference. A move to call Gavitt home, with a huge bump in salary, might be a deal maker. Although Gavitt has only been with the NCAA for one season, the Catholic 7 group could make him a “Godfather” offer.
If they want to go into another direction, the next two names which jump out are West Coast Commissioner Jamie Zaninovich, who has Princeton and Georgetown connections and current George Mason athletic director Tom O’Connor. Both men could do good jobs. in either of those cases, the offices would probably be shifted to Washington D.C.
After that, the search turns murkier. There are qualified candidates, but finding them and matching them to the job, becomes more problematical.
Next, the football side. More complicated in many ways, less in others.
The first task will be to find a name for the conference since after July 1, the Big East name will no longer be available. The America 12 conference name was floated as a possibility and may be taken down because of so many shots against it which came from various places inside the league and outside the league.
I still like using the word “Metro”, which would fit all of the schools in the conference other than East Carolina. And I’m still offering Big Metro Athletic Conference (Big Mac) free of charge with the idea of teaming up with McDonald’s on promotional and sponsoring deals as a way to entice more of the twitter generation to games.
Whatever it is named the league will consist of 10 teams in football next season: Temple, Connecticut, South Florida, Cincinnati, SMU, Memphis, Houston, Central Florida, Rutgers and Louisville. Rutgers and Louisville will leave for the Big Ten and ACC in 2014 and be replaced by Tulane and East Carolina. Navy is expected to join the league in 2015, which would make 11 teams and a 12th team will be added, with Tulsa regarded as the main target.
Watch out for Navy though, which made its deal with the Big East as a BCS school with BCS guaranteed bowl money. Without that money, how attractive is this new league for Navy in football only since finding opponents is not a Navy problem.
In the aftermath of all of this, both sides came out on Friday with tentative statements, indicating that much work still had to be done.
The Catholic 7 issued a group statement, thanking Big East Commissioner Mike Aresco for his hard work and support during the talks.
Aresco, after congratulating the Catholic 7 schools and wishing them luck, talked about the name of his old, new conference. “”We have not chosen a new conference name at this time,” said Aresco in a statement and there are no favorites. “”We are going through a thoughtful evaluation of potential names in a timely manner through a comprehensive and deliberate process that involves our presidents and athletic directors as well as consultants from inside and outside the conference. We are excited about the prospects of re-branding and look forward to working with our institutions and our fans as we engage in this process.”
Aresco must also find a new home for his newly named conference, with a rotating series of sites the most likely scenario, with Hartford, Ct. or Memphis the most likely first stop.
The issue of distributing the nearly 100 million dollars in funds from exit fees and other sources of revenue will continue to be negotiated among the football schools

[GoMuskies]

$15 million on the legal costs seems a bit high. Even if all the lawyers involved were $1000/hour guys (they're not), that's 15,000 billable hours. 625 full billable days. Almost a year and three quarters of billable time.

[smileyy]

Yep, here's the correction.

“@McMurphyESPN: Have not withdrawn. Correcting now. Thanks RT @frankthetank111: Butler, Xavier and Creighton have withdrawn from their leagues”

I first interpreted the tweet as saying Creighton and XU had withdrawn from the "new" league, and I had just about *($# myself...

[LA Muskie]

I was just thinking about this at lunch. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for staggering the additions (first to 10 then to 12) and having Creighton in the first batch was to appease the A-10 (and hence avoid negative repercussions for Xavier and Butler). Obviously there have been behind-the-scenes discussions and the A-10 had to have known that XU and Butler were as good as gone. So maybe they negotiated a resolution that gave the A-10 time to make sure it can stay alive and relevant. I have no inside information on this, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[DarthFriar]

I was just thinking about this at lunch. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for staggering the additions (first to 10 then to 12) and having Creighton in the first batch was to appease the A-10 (and hence avoid negative repercussions for Xavier and Butler). Obviously there have been behind-the-scenes discussions and the A-10 had to have known that XU and Butler were as good as gone. So maybe they negotiated a resolution that gave the A-10 time to make sure it can stay alive and relevant. I have no inside information on this, but it wouldn't surprise me.

You hit the nail on the head I'm hearing that the Big East didn't want to take 4 programs all at once from the A10 so they wouldn't be hit hard all at once.

You X fans are going to love the Big East Tourney at the Garden, simply the best in college basketball.

[xudash]

You hit the nail on the head I'm hearing that the Big East didn't want to take 4 programs all at once from the A10 so they wouldn't be hit hard all at once.

You X fans are going to love the Big East Tourney at the Garden, simply the best in college basketball.

Darth, what is your best read - what are you hearing, if anything - about who 11 and 12 will be - Richmond, UD or SLU going for 2 slots, it would appear.

[Masterofreality]

Interesting tidbit in Forbes.com about the fact that the Big East 7 will retain all of their NCAA Tourney Credits.

XU and Butler will have to give up theirs, but here's the deal. Between the credits that XU has earned on it's own the last 5 years (14) and those earned by the other A10 members, XU will have to give up $1,865,000- $1,750,000 of that was earned by Xavier itself. Only $115,000 came from the other pikers.

The formula goes like this in the A10- The school that plays the games keeps half of the share (one share =$250,000/ 2 = $125,000 kept) The other half of the share gets split 13 ways by the other schools ($125,000/13 = $9,615 per share). There were 12 shares earned by other A10 members in the past 5 years so there you go.

In summary, if Xavier had been able to keep all of it's shares at 100% it would have earned $3,500,000 for itself. However, by having to support scofflaws like Fordham and the dump, we had to give up a plié of money.

And for the priviledge of giving up all that money, and after supporting this piece of crap league for years, we get to pay another $2 million to leave. Jeezuz.

it will be interesting to see how the new league will treat NCAA credits.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/03/08/the-catholic-7-will-retain-ncaa-tournament-units-worth-7-25-million-in-2013/

[DarthFriar]

Darth, what is your best read - what are you hearing, if anything - about who 11 and 12 will be - Richmond, UD or SLU going for 2 slots, it would appear.

DASH, I've heard from the very beginning that the 5 schools will be X, Butler, Creighton, SLU and Dayton, and I believe that will be the final outcome. I know many don't want to hear this but I hear all of the C7 presidents agree on Dayton getting an invite. Please don't shoot the messenger.

BTW DASH I have a name for Cincy's new conference. How about the Anemic12?:jawdrop:

[Porkopolis]

BTW DASH I have a name for Cincy's new conference. How about the Anemic12?:jawdrop:

One of our local sports talk hosts has taken to calling it "Conference TBA." :lmao:

[muskienick]

DASH, I've heard from the very beginning that the 5 schools will be X, Butler, Creighton, SLU and Dayton, and I believe that will be the final outcome. I know many don't want to hear this but I hear all of the C7 presidents agree on Dayton getting an invite. Please don't shoot the messenger.

BTW DASH I have a name for Cincy's new conference. How about the Anemic12?:jawdrop:

Darth,

Do you like and agree with what you hear concerning the Presidents' preference of UD over Richmond (or VCU)? It would seem more reasonable, from a geographical balance and media market point of view, that one of the Virginia schools would be the better choice. Also, we've been led to believe all along that the President of Georgetown University was pushing for the inclusion of Richmond into the mix and that he had assumed some sort of a leadership position among the Presidents' Council. If true, it would seem that his opinions would be given a bit of preferential treatment. Furthermore, if the new Big East's Presidents are giving ANY consideration to the Atlantic 10, one might think that they would leave at least one portion of its current midwest footprint in the event that any new addition (like Cleveland State, Detroit, or Valpo) from that area wouldn't feel like "the lone wolf."

[Nuchman]

Drop Dayton and let's get the Zags. Dayton brings nothing to the table.

[bjf123]

Listening to Darryl Parks on WLW and he just said that years ago when UC joined the Big East, Bob Goins, UC AD, told him that he wanted to cancel the Crosstown Shootout because playing Xavier was "beneath" UC. My, my, how things have changed. He also said that the only way he'd want to continue the series was at a neutral site. Of course, you've got to take into account one of Darryl's own rules for talk radio. Don't let facts get in the way of a good talk show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

The dump is like Dog crap on your shoe....

You can never get rid of it.

[PMI]

The dump is like Dog crap on your shoe....

You can never get rid of it.

And it freaking stinks.

[Masterofreality]

There could be even more money on the table for XU.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=1&

[Pete Delkus]

And it freaking stinks.

UD is the crack wh0re in the movie Boyz N the Hood.

"You got room for 10? You got room for 12? I'll xxxx your xxxx!"

[xu95]

There could be even more money on the table for XU.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=1&

These are the numbers we have always heard. 30 million for 10 teams, 40 million for 12. I would rather stay at 10 and give up the .3 million if it guaranteed no Dayton.

[xu95]

These are the numbers we have always heard. 30 million for 10 teams, 40 million for 12. I would rather stay at 10 and give up the .3 million if it guaranteed no Dayton.

Actually doing the math again, over a 15 year contract, the payout is the same whether it is 10 teams or 12 (3.33 per year). I don't see why they would ever expand.

[danaandvictory]

Actually doing the math again, over a 15 year contract, the payout is the same whether it is 10 teams or 12 (3.33 per year). I don't see why they would ever expand.

The only advantage would be increased NCAA credits.

[UCGRAD4X]

The only advantage would be increased NCAA credits.

What credit(s) do(es) udump bring?

[xu95]

Sorry, I didn't see it was a 12 year contract. The number is still 4.16 per year whether it is 10 or 12. I personally would like to add Creighton and stay at 10.

[xu95]

The only advantage would be increased NCAA credits.

But lets say you get one more credit (which isn't guaranteed) is it really paying out more when you divide it 12 ways vs 10? Maybe a little bit, but I believe in the long run you would see that it isn't worth it.

[xubrew]

This is probably old news, but I'm hearing that Notre Dame will officially announce today that they are going to the ACC next year. I was hoping they'd stay in our league, but I guess not.

[GoMuskies]

That can't be! I've read on this very board that ND's deal with the ACC was "ill-fated" and that the Irish would never actually join that league. Huh.

[paulxu]

Bonus points to that writer for using "Gus Johnson" and "boola-boola" in a sentence.

[danaandvictory]

But lets say you get one more credit (which isn't guaranteed) is it really paying out more when you divide it 12 ways vs 10? Maybe a little bit, but I believe in the long run you would see that it isn't worth it.

If the new Big East has an equal division of NCAA credits (the A-10 did not), then the only financial incentive would be to add teams capable of regularly making (and advancing) in the tournament.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

@McMurphyESPN: Notre Dame, Big East reach agreement; allowing Irish to leave early for $2.5M & join ACC on July 1

Ted Glover ‏@purplebuckeye
@ACCSports @McMurphyESPN Which means Jim Delany destroys #ACC on July 2, lol #B1G #ConferenceRealignment

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
@purplebuckeye That's one way of looking at it.

Ted Glover ‏@purplebuckeye
@McMurphyESPN I was half joking. Half...

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
@purplebuckeye i know, but a very very real possibility

[Stephen FriarFan]

Not sure if this has been posted Nice NY Times piece on the Fox TV deal.
From the Friars Board
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?ref=sports&_r=0

I love this part:
Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams, according to two people briefed on the contract but not authorized to speak publicly about its terms. A number of universities are said to be candidates to join the new Big East, including Xavier, an Atlantic 10 member, and Creighton, of the Missouri Valley Conference.

The money is almost the same for 10 or 12 teams, I guess thats why we are only going to 10 to start.. Stay at 10 do we water down the product to go to 12?? Its about 4.1 mill per year either way

[paulxu]

If you go to 10 now, and add 2 next year, the 2 you add will have to withdraw by July 1st.
I don't think Fox cares about what is happening within other conferences (although schools might). They care about content.
It would seem that they would want the extra games to fill up the schedule, and it would make sense now.
If the A10 lost 4, plus Char/Temp they would be at 10 next year, and that's workable. Barclays for 2014 would be a challenge.

I'd still like to see X, But, Creig, St Louis and Richmond. Georgetown might have to give up H/H with Marquette, but that seems the only stumbling block.
Maybe that's the cost of Creighton for Marquette. Maybe Georgetown agrees to go to Milwaukee in the first year.

[xubrew]

Fox doesn't view things in entirely the same way that the university presidents do.

Fox already has a deal with the Missouri Valley. FSN Midwest pretty much carries all the games. So, adding Creighton isn't nearly as attractive to them because they already have Creighton.

Most TV deals have tiers to them. I honestly don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that our deal will be a three tier deal that looks something like this...

-1st tier - the games that go national.

-2nd tier - games that are on throughout the conference footprint/market. I don't know they'll define what the conference market is. The ACC defines their market as any state with an ACC team in it. Chances are that won't work for this league, but at the very least it will be the city with a team in it. So, if Providence is playing Georgetown and it's a second tier game, it will be on in Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc.

-3rd tier - games that are only available in the markets of the teams that are playing. In other words, if Xaiver is playing Providence, it will be made available in the Cincinnati and Providence markets (or to anyone who has a satellite dish).

All trashtalk aside, I think this is why the network wants Dayton. FSN Cincinnati would get high ratings in two different markets whenever Xavier or Dayton played regardless of what tier the game fell into. FSN has a deal with Xavier, but not for conference games. They show them, but it's not their production and I'm assuming they have to buy them. They don't have a deal with Dayton at all. Fox Sports does have a deal with the Missouri Valley, so adding Creighton isn't all that attractive to them. The ratings spike FSN Midwest would get for second and third tier games is negligible.


Also, if the league goes out to twelve teams, which it probably will, expect a single division unbalanced format. People have talked about divisions, but I don't see that happening. If Fox is forking out that kind of money, they want a say in scheduling. If they want two Marquette vs Georgetown games, then they're going to get them, so an East and West division won't work. This is why so many major basketball conferences have gone away from divisions. I don't like that, but I get why that happens.

As for the university presidents, it's more about politics than anything else. Fox wants new markets. Marquette wants Creighton because Creighton's president is also on Marquette's board of trustees.

I have no idea what the final makeup of the conference will look like, and won't even venture to guess. I don't think all of the major players want the same things, though.

[DC Muskie]

12 teams means more opportunities for tournament appearances.

Basically...adding Dayton means Providence gets more at large appearances.

[xu95]

12 teams means more opportunities for tournament appearances.

Basically...adding Dayton means Providence gets more at large appearances.

Yes, but unless more teams actually make the tournament you are losing money splitting it 12 ways vs 10.

Its a risky strategy Cotton. I hope it works out for them.

[xu95]

If the new Big East has an equal division of NCAA credits (the A-10 did not), then the only financial incentive would be to add teams capable of regularly making (and advancing) in the tournament.

Rumors are a dime a dozen right now, but I heard the discussion was half to the team that earned it and the rest split evenly. I have nothing to back that up though.

And I agree with you about adding teams capable of regularly making and advancing in the tourney. None of St. Louis, Richmond, or Dayton have proven they can do that.

If the TV dollars are the same, it makes no sense to go beyond 10.

[xubrew]

I want a nine team, single division league with a balanced schedule of sixteen games. I demand that Butler, Marquette, Villonva, Georgetown and Xavier be among the nine. As long as we have those five I'm not overly concerned who the other four are.

Nine teams. Just nine. No more. No less.

I intend to inform Fox and the Big East of my wishes and demand that they comply.

[GoMuskies]

10 is good. 9 is better. 12 is worse than the other two options but MUCH better than the A-10.

[DC Muskie]

Yes, but unless more teams actually make the tournament you are losing money splitting it 12 ways vs 10.

Its a risky strategy Cotton. I hope it works out for them.

If you have 12, you are more likely to have 5 or 6 teams in the tournament on a regular basis.

With 10 you may max out with 5.

Of course I would want 9. I'd take 10. 12 would be the max and I think that is what's going to happen.

[xubrew]

I'm excited.

I think the Atlantic Ten could have been a good conference had it actually been a conference and not a cluster. Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SLU, UD, VCU and Richmond is a great nucleus of teams. I would have been just as happy to see us break off from the Atlantic Ten, draw up our own bylaws, seek out or own TV deal, be our own charter members, and do our own thing. Add two more to it and you have a much better product than a bloated sixteen team monstrosity that was the Atlantic Ten.

What's happening is good, though.

When we play a buy game against Detroit (or whoever), it doesn't feel any different than a game against Fordham, La Salle, Duquesne, GW, or any number of teams that were actuallty conference teams. Very few conference games actually felt like conference games. True conferences seem to be going by way of the dinosaur, and I'm excited that we seem to be getting into a real conference with like minded institutions when it comes to athletics. Xavier has not been in that situation for a long time. Maybe never.

I completely agree with GO. Nine is the best. Ten is good, but not as good. Twelve isn't as good as either, but it's still better than what we got.

[xudash]

I'm excited.

I think the Atlantic Ten could have been a good conference had it actually been a conference and not a cluster. Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SLU, UD, VCU and Richmond is a great nucleus of teams. I would have been just as happy to see us break off from the Atlantic Ten, draw up our own bylaws, seek out or own TV deal, be our own charter members, and do our own thing. Add two more to it and you have a much better product than a bloated sixteen team monstrosity that was the Atlantic Ten.

What's happening is good, though.

When we play a buy game against Detroit (or whoever), it doesn't feel any different than a game against Fordham, La Salle, Duquesne, GW, or any number of teams that were actuallty conference teams. Very few conference games actually felt like conference games. True conferences seem to be going by way of the dinosaur, and I'm excited that we seem to be getting into a real conference with like minded institutions when it comes to athletics. Xavier has not been in that situation for a long time. Maybe never.

I completely agree with GO. Nine is the best. Ten is good, but not as good. Twelve isn't as good as either, but it's still better than what we got.

As is the case with any conference, it should always be about alignment. Strong alignment helps you to spin up great competition across the board, which eventually gets you to a strong brand.

The A10 never got that, or they understood it, but were not willing to take the necessary steps to achieve alignment.

LaSalle should never have been allowed in on a favor, which is what happened.

Fordham should never have been allowed in without it providing a realistic and committed plan for program investment and improvement; bringing Fordham in, knowing that Rose Hill was to be its venue, was a remarkably bad mistake.

9 probably isn't happening due to television content reasons. I hope it locks at 10 and stays there.

[danaandvictory]

9 probably isn't happening due to television content reasons. I hope it locks at 10 and stays there.

I would agree with that. That's five games per "matchday" where a nine-team league would only provide four.

My hope would be they bring in Creighton or Richmond, the thing is a smashing success next year, and they hold steady at 10 because I really don't like the idea of getting into unbalanced conference schedules. That ruins the entire thing to an extent.

[paulxu]

All trashtalk aside, I think this is why the network wants Dayton. FSN Cincinnati would get high ratings in two different markets whenever Xavier or Dayton played regardless of what tier the game fell into.

I just don't get this at all. You can have a higher rating in Podunk, AL...but if there are only 4 TV sets in that city, it doesn't mean a thing.
A higher rating in Dayton vs. a slightly lower rating in St Louis still means a boatload of more TV sets in St Louis...and the chance for drawing a LOT more.

[GoMuskies]

I would agree with that. That's five games per "matchday" where a nine-team league would only provide four.



It seems like every team could have one week with no games during the week during the conference seaason and take turns having a marquee OOC opponent on the weekend (theoretically half of which would be on Big East teams' home floors and be part of the TV contract). 9 teams is workable. The ACC made it work for a long time.

[xubrew]

I just don't get this at all. You can have a higher rating in Podunk, AL...but if there are only 4 TV sets in that city, it doesn't mean a thing.
A higher rating in Dayton vs. a slightly lower rating in St Louis still means a boatload of more TV sets in St Louis...and the chance for drawing a LOT more.

I'm guessing that they think Dayton will rate well both in Dayton and in Cincinnati, especially if both teams are in the league.

FSN Midwest already has a deal with Creighton, so adding them adds nothing as far as FSN is concerned. They want to add teams that they currently do not have deals with. Does that part of it at least make sense??

Adding SLU would make sense, at least I think it would. I do know that our game against SLU was broadcast on FSN midwest. Does Fox already have a deal with SLU?? I don't know. If they do, then I can see why they wouldn't push as hard for them.

I'm pretty sure that Fox really wanted Dayton. This is my guess as to why, and that's all it is. I'm not an insider and I'm not claiming to be. Take it for what it's worth.

[paulxu]

Well, my guesses are worth crap for sure.
There's so much buzz about Creighton it's hard to imagine there's not something to them being invited.
I would think there's some validity to Butler not wanting to be the only non-catholic school, and the presidents of the C7 not wanting to carry around the moniker of "catholic conference." If that's the case, Richmond still might be in play.
I'm guessing FSMidwest has a deal with St Louis as their logo appears on FSMid website. Boy they do have some crappy announcers though.

[LA Muskie]

That can't be! I've read on this very board that ND's deal with the ACC was "ill-fated" and that the Irish would never actually join that league. Huh.
Go...have you not been paying attention for the last 18 months? The fact that ND is announcing today that they are joining the ACC in July doesn't mean very much. It may mean something more in July. ND is fine with the current makeup of the ACC. The problem is that they will not be fine with the potential makeup of the ACC if it loses 4 or more of the following: UNC, UVA, Duke, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Pitt or Syracuse. And it has little control over that. It certainly hasn't done the one thing that would assure that those schools will stick around (join for football).

Conference realignment may somehow spare the ACC further losses. In which case, ND will play there. To my knowledge, nobody ever said that ND didn't want to join the ACC. I (and others) simply said that if the BiG, SEC and Big XII raid the ACC as has been prognosticated, ND may decide that it has little choice but to align itself with the big boys, even if on a limited basis.

[GoMuskies]

Conference realignment may somehow spare the ACC further losses.

Hey, you're coming around!

If we really are going to end up with a "final 4" of conferences, I would still put my money on the Big XII being the one to go. GoR or no GoR, that conference is in a geographic wasteland (believe me, I see it out my window right now).

[jdm2000]

I'm guessing that they think Dayton will rate well both in Dayton and in Cincinnati, especially if both teams are in the league.

FSN Midwest already has a deal with Creighton, so adding them adds nothing as far as FSN is concerned. They want to add teams that they currently do not have deals with. Does that part of it at least make sense??

Adding SLU would make sense, at least I think it would. I do know that our game against SLU was broadcast on FSN midwest. Does Fox already have a deal with SLU?? I don't know. If they do, then I can see why they wouldn't push as hard for them.

I'm pretty sure that Fox really wanted Dayton. This is my guess as to why, and that's all it is. I'm not an insider and I'm not claiming to be. Take it for what it's worth.

Brew, you keep mentioning FSN Cincinnati and FSN Midwest. Do the FSN deals really matter here? Fox Sports is a whole new network, and I don't assume the regional FSN's are going away. I guess I would not be surprised to see some content that is currently shown on the regional Fox Sports Nets as "national" stuff (like some college basketball games, etc.) moved over to Fox Sports 1 if they want to. But it's not one entity, and I don't think you can view Creighton as a FS1 property already simply because their games are on FSMidwest. That's like expecting the Reds games to be shown on FS1 just because they have a contract with FSOhio. I don't think they will be.

Fox Sports 1 will be showing content to the entire country, not on a regional basis. So the real question is not will Dayton goose the ratings for a Xavier game with Fox Sports Ohio, but will Dayton being in the league consistently increase national television ratings for a national network. So the real question becomes, I think, what is a better national draw: SLU-Providence or UD-Providence? Richmond-Marquette or Dayton-Marquette? I'm not really sure there is an answer. I think, actually, that once you get past X and Butler, the allure of the other teams mentioned--Creighton, Dayton, SLU, Richmond, VCU--on the national stage is not all that great.

[LA Muskie]

Brew, you keep mentioning FSN Cincinnati and FSN Midwest. Do the FSN deals really matter here? Fox Sports is a whole new network, and I don't assume the regional FSN's are going away. I guess I would not be surprised to see some content that is currently shown on the regional Fox Sports Nets as "national" stuff (like some college basketball games, etc.) moved over to Fox Sports 1 if they want to. But it's not one entity, and I don't think you can view Creighton as a FS1 property already simply because their games are on FSMidwest. That's like expecting the Reds games to be shown on FS1 just because they have a contract with FSOhio. I don't think they will be.

Fox Sports 1 will be showing content to the entire country, not on a regional basis. So the real question is not will Dayton goose the ratings for a Xavier game with Fox Sports Ohio, but will Dayton being in the league consistently increase national television ratings for a national network. So the real question becomes, I think, what is a better national draw: SLU-Providence or UD-Providence? Richmond-Marquette or Dayton-Marquette? I'm not really sure there is an answer. I think, actually, that once you get past X and Butler, the allure of the other teams mentioned--Creighton, Dayton, SLU, Richmond, VCU--on the national stage is not all that great.
This is the part where XUBrew does a much better job than I can do at educating you on the differences between Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 content. But in essence, as I understand things, FS1 will control all of the content. Tier 1 will go on its national footprint FS1 flagship. It will sublicense Tier 2 and Tier 3 content as it sees fit -- which likely would be to its regional and local "partners" (the FS-- network of channels). To the extent it chooses not to air a game at all, the schools may retain rights to sign their own local deals for surplus (which is essentially what XU has done before).

[xudash]

This is the part where XUBrew does a much better job than I can do at educating you on the differences between Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 content. But in essence, as I understand things, FS1 will control all of the content. Tier 1 will go on its national footprint FS1 flagship. It will sublicense Tier 2 and Tier 3 content as it sees fit -- which likely would be to its regional and local "partners" (the FS-- network of channels). To the extent it chooses not to air a game at all, the schools may retain rights to sign their own local deals for surplus (which is essentially what XU has done before).

Damn well done.

Logically, with Fox looking to make the most economic impact from Tier One Rights - Tier 2 and 3 aren't the primary drivers here, to state the obvious - isn't jdm2000 setting forth a logical argument for why UD isn't exactly a slam dunk for this deal based on the perceived television value it may provide?

[coasterville95]

I like what I am hearing - if we are a primary Fox team, does that give us any more clout over the Cavs, Blue Jackets, UC, Girls HS Basketball, Curling when it comes to priority on the main FS-OH?

I mean now - our main TV deal seems to be CBS - with some games picked up by ESPN. In the past we would sell (or attempt to sell) whatever games CBS/ESPN didn't want to Fox, which would show them on Fox Sports Ohio (at best) or Fox Sports Cincinnati (at worst). This year they said they couldn't get the bid, which led to that horrid Time Warner Cable Sports Channel deal. However, next year if FOX is our main TV carrier, it would seem a no brainer to pass content not considered suited for FS1 or FS2 down to FSO. If FSO doesn't want it maybe it would roll to Fox Sports Cincinnati. Sounds like a win all around for our program TV wise.

[jdm2000]

So the UD guys are all over their board and the A10 board saying they are definitely in, with "inside sources." Is that true?

[xudash]

So the UD guys are all over their board and the A10 board saying they are definitely in, with "inside sources." Is that true?

In their heads it's true. Whether it's true with the people that matter remains to be seen.

There have been published reports by reputable people claiming that UD will be a part of it. Then again, there have been reports about Georgetown wanting Richmond, etc.

Armchair theatre at this point. It will be interesting.

If they make it, they make it, but it will be hilarious if they don't make it.

[waggy]

I don't believe their sources. You don't need a source to see that they don't measure up as a BE program.

[xubrew]

This is the part where XUBrew does a much better job than I can do at educating you on the differences between Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 content. But in essence, as I understand things, FS1 will control all of the content. Tier 1 will go on its national footprint FS1 flagship. It will sublicense Tier 2 and Tier 3 content as it sees fit -- which likely would be to its regional and local "partners" (the FS-- network of channels). To the extent it chooses not to air a game at all, the schools may retain rights to sign their own local deals for surplus (which is essentially what XU has done before).

I think LA explained it better than I could.


I like what I am hearing - if we are a primary Fox team, does that give us any more clout over the Cavs, Blue Jackets, UC, Girls HS Basketball, Curling when it comes to priority on the main FS-OH?

I mean now - our main TV deal seems to be CBS - with some games picked up by ESPN. In the past we would sell (or attempt to sell) whatever games CBS/ESPN didn't want to Fox, which would show them on Fox Sports Ohio (at best) or Fox Sports Cincinnati (at worst). This year they said they couldn't get the bid, which led to that horrid Time Warner Cable Sports Channel deal. However, next year if FOX is our main TV carrier, it would seem a no brainer to pass content not considered suited for FS1 or FS2 down to FSO. If FSO doesn't want it maybe it would roll to Fox Sports Cincinnati. Sounds like a win all around for our program TV wise.

Okay, understand that the scenario I laid out with the tiers is entirely hypothetical. It could be a no tier deal where all the games are on Fox Sports 1. I seriously doubt that will occur, but it could. We could go with two networks. ESPN pays X amount of dollars for ten games, or twenty games, or however many games, and gets their pick of any ten games they want as the first tier of the deal. Fox pays Y amount of dollars for the second and third tiers and gets the rest. I don't think that will happen either because it looks as though Fox wants an exclusive deal.

I'm just guessing what our TV deal will approxomately look like. It could end up looking nothing like what I outlined.

[Masterofreality]

So the UD guys are all over their board and the A10 board saying they are definitely in, with "inside sources." Is that true?

No. Their position is still very tenuous.

[Titanxman04]

I pray for a few things every day.

1. For the health and well being of those I love.
2. Thanks for the things listed in 1.
3. Thanks for my home, my job, and the blessings I have.
4. Any requests from my friends or from people I know.
5. Dayton to not make the Big East.

[Musketeer_15]

So the UD guys are all over their board and the A10 board saying they are definitely in, with "inside sources." Is that true?

The only thing Dayton is in is a dump, so these "inside sources" are correct!

[muskienick]

Fox doesn't view things in entirely the same way that the university presidents do.

Fox already has a deal with the Missouri Valley. FSN Midwest pretty much carries all the games. So, adding Creighton isn't nearly as attractive to them because they already have Creighton.

Most TV deals have tiers to them. I honestly don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that our deal will be a three tier deal that looks something like this...

-1st tier - the games that go national.

-2nd tier - games that are on throughout the conference footprint/market. I don't know they'll define what the conference market is. The ACC defines their market as any state with an ACC team in it. Chances are that won't work for this league, but at the very least it will be the city with a team in it. So, if Providence is playing Georgetown and it's a second tier game, it will be on in Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc.

-3rd tier - games that are only available in the markets of the teams that are playing. In other words, if Xaiver is playing Providence, it will be made available in the Cincinnati and Providence markets (or to anyone who has a satellite dish).

All trashtalk aside, I think this is why the network wants Dayton. FSN Cincinnati would get high ratings in two different markets whenever Xavier or Dayton played regardless of what tier the game fell into. FSN has a deal with Xavier, but not for conference games. They show them, but it's not their production and I'm assuming they have to buy them. They don't have a deal with Dayton at all. Fox Sports does have a deal with the Missouri Valley, so adding Creighton isn't all that attractive to them. The ratings spike FSN Midwest would get for second and third tier games is negligible.


Also, if the league goes out to twelve teams, which it probably will, expect a single division unbalanced format. People have talked about divisions, but I don't see that happening. If Fox is forking out that kind of money, they want a say in scheduling. If they want two Marquette vs Georgetown games, then they're going to get them, so an East and West division won't work. This is why so many major basketball conferences have gone away from divisions. I don't like that, but I get why that happens.

As for the university presidents, it's more about politics than anything else. Fox wants new markets. Marquette wants Creighton because Creighton's president is also on Marquette's board of trustees.

I have no idea what the final makeup of the conference will look like, and won't even venture to guess. I don't think all of the major players want the same things, though.

Or, they could simply create basketball divisions that are not necessarily based on geography. Make sure natural rivalries and/or fan-favorite opponents share the same division. With just a few exceptions, "road" trips will be done by plane anyway. Once you're up in the air, another 45 minutes or an hour is no big deal.

The same divisional setup would not have to be used for the minor sports. There, they could use geography as its basis.

[paulxu]

To the extent it chooses not to air a game at all, the schools may retain rights to sign their own local deals for surplus (which is essentially what XU has done before).

Wait...does that mean X was responsible for the Time Warner debacles I read about?

[coasterville95]

I thought X emphatically stated they were NOT responsible for the TWC deal. Apparently that is on the conferences shoulders. The conference has a deal wiht CBS - CBS chose which cames to show on CBS Collee Sports Regional, then farmed the rest of the A10 games out. From what I was told TWC outbid Fox Sports for them. Seems to make sense as we were not the only A10 school that got 'hosed' by this.

Leading to such things as a St. Bonaventure game that could not be seen in New York City.

[xubrew]

I want a TV deal where all games are made available to DirecTV and other satellite affiliates. That's all I care about. It can have ten tiers so long as all the games are available to me. I'm all about what I want, and that's what I want. None of this TWC Ohio crap. (Although I was able to see those online, but still, that's not good enough).

[Stephen FriarFan]

No. Their position is still very tenuous.

I am still not sure they are in.. Alot of people on the Friars Board were running with Dayton is in a long time ago , and I think it's because Xavier and Dayton were thought of as a set( no disrepect ). I mean it's been over a year ago people would be talking and it's like you were almost one school as in I here Dayton and X are going to join us. Then Butler came into the picture, Then Creighten. These are all better fits than Dayton.
I thought from the information I had a while back we would not jump out to 12. And I don't think at this time the Presidents don't even know who the last schools will be. The money cut is the same 10 or 12, Yes Ncaa bids may open up a little, but the Big East credit split was 1/2 to the school the rest to the Big East.
Anoucment to come soon, not sure if there will be names about schools for 2014..

[PM Thor]

dayton and Xavier are in no way a set. I would say that X does NOT want dayton in the conference, just because we don't want to have to recruit against them. Screw "rivalries", dayton sucks and doesn't belong in the Big East.

I HATE dayton.

[Masterofreality]

I am still not sure they are in.. Alot of people on the Friars Board were running with Dayton is in a long time ago , and I think it's because Xavier and Dayton were thought of as a set( no disrepect ). I mean it's been over a year ago people would be talking and it's like you were almost one school as in I here Dayton and X are going to join us. Then Butler came into the picture, Then Creighten. These are all better fits than Dayton.
I thought from the information I had a while back we would not jump out to 12. And I don't think at this time the Presidents don't even know who the last schools will be. The money cut is the same 10 or 12, Yes Ncaa bids may open up a little, but the Big East credit split was 1/2 to the school the rest to the Big East.
Anoucment to come soon, not sure if there will be names about schools for 2014..

Hey Friar. Just beat SucKS tomorrow.

[DC Muskie]

Why are people worried about recruiting against them?

We lost Chris Wright, Brian Roberts and Josh Benson to them.

Combined that's one NCAA win.

How in the world is that going to change if we were both in the Big East?

By the way, we need to spell out Big East and not do the Dayton thing of referring everything by initials.

[chico]

Why are people worried about recruiting against them?


By the way, we need to spell out Big East and not do the Dayton thing of referring everything by initials.

Unless you say, "UC will cease to BE."

[El Shaqtus]

All I know is that X and Butler fans are pretty much assured of a spot, Creighton as well.

Everyone else is waiting.

I'll be glad when it's over. Big East or no basketball.

[Masterofreality]

Nobody is worried about anything as to udump.

The factors are: A) 12 teams....geographic balance
B) TV market footprint
C) Non-duplication or overlap of TV markets (need broad coverage with limited number of schools.)
D) Institutional fit with the others.
E) Men's Basketball historical success (both recently and traditionally)
F) Percieved potential of improvement by new members. (ie- desire to invest if required)

Not necessarily in that order, but those were related to me. There will be eventually 12 schools and no more. Too unwieldy otherwise.

With 12 schools there is a high desire for east/midwest balance by, especially, the eastern schools.

With the above criteria, udump's status is very precarious. Not to say that they are out, but it needs a strong advocate, and right about now, the strong advocate is lacking.

No hatred or emotion in this post, just fact.

[UCGRAD4X]

Nobody is worried about anything as to udump.

The factors are: A) 12 teams....geographic balance
B) TV market footprint
C) Non-duplication or overlap of TV markets (need broad coverage with limited number of schools.)
D) Institutional fit with the others.
E) Men's Basketball historical success (both recently and traditionally)
F) Percieved potential of improvement by new members. (ie- desire to invest if required)

Not necessarily in that order, but those were related to me. There will be eventually 12 schools and no more. Too unwieldy otherwise.

With 12 schools there is a high desire for east/midwest balance by, especially, the eastern schools.

With the above criteria, udump's status is very precarious. Not to say that they are out, but it needs a strong advocate, and right about now, the strong advocate is lacking.

No hatred or emotion in this post, just fact.

And they hump watermelons.

[El Shaqtus]

To me, it's about what everyone (teams) have earned.

I always saw SLU/Xavier as a fun rivalry, and I know there was plenty of respect for the Musketeers.

Good luck, wherever that may be.

[rove02]

To me, it's about what everyone (teams) have earned.

I always saw SLU/Xavier as a fun rivalry, and I know there was plenty of respect for the Musketeers.

Good luck, wherever that may be.

I've always liked and had respect for SLU. I used to hate facing Lisch and Liddell. However, it didn't seem like there was much respect for X after reading a SLU message board before and after the game this year.

[paulxu]

MOR, you build a great case for Richmond, with the additional benefit of bringing in another non-catholic school so the papers/TV stop referring to it as the "Catholic" whatever.

I know Go hates divisions, and you could have 12 without defined divisions, but I'd love to see it.

[GoMuskies]

It's DC who hates divisions. I don't care one way or the other, really.

[xubrew]

MOR, you build a great case for Richmond, with the additional benefit of bringing in another non-catholic school so the papers/TV stop referring to it as the "Catholic" whatever.

I know Go hates divisions, and you could have 12 without defined divisions, but I'd love to see it.

I'm hearing that Georgetown is pushing hard for Richmond. I'm not really sure why. If there is some sort of relationship or affiliation between the two I have no idea what it is.

[paulxu]

My bad. BTW, I'm not in love with divisions, I just like the idea of a balanced league with Richmond in a new state, non catholic to balance Butler, and having St Louis vs. Datyon as #12.

[Masterofreality]

It's DC who hates divisions. I don't care one way or the other, really.

The Divisional setup is still under discussion. Probably will be left to the new Commissioner (Dan Gavitt has the most support) To decide.


I'm hearing that Georgetown is pushing hard for Richmond. I'm not really sure why. If there is some sort of relationship or affiliation between the two I have no idea what it is.

This is not a fait accompli either. But Richmond has the geographic fit, the institutional fit, the desire and capability to invest, and they have a pre-existing relationship with Villanova and Georgetown on the football side. They played 'Nova last year, but neither GTown or 'Nova are on their schedule this year.

There is also a high regard for Mooney as a coach and he seems to want to stay there long term. Richmond is building their program the truly right way with a solid series of good coaches.

[bleedXblue]

The Divisional setup is still under discussion. Probably will be left to the new Commissioner (Dan Gavitt has the most support) To decide.



This is not a fait accompli either. But Richmond has the geographic fit, the institutional fit, the desire and capability to invest, and they have a pre-existing relationship with Villanova and Georgetown on the football side. They played 'Nova last year, but neither GTown or 'Nova are on their schedule this year.

There is also a high regard for Mooney as a coach and he seems to want to stay there long term. Richmond is building their program the truly right way with a solid series of good coaches.

Richmond would be a great fit all around. Would love to have them in the league.

[DC Muskie]

If they create divisions in the Big East then they were not that serious about making this the premier basketball only league.

Why people at the top would even consider it is beyond reason.

[GrimeTime]

I agree with DC ... one division of awesome basketball in the Big East. Anything else would really be a disappointment to me.

[Masterofreality]

If they create divisions in the Big East then they were not that serious about making this the premier basketball only league.

Why people at the top would even consider it is beyond reason.

Easy. Not a definitive.

In my opinion though, D, is that a divisional schedule is a damn site better than the unbalanced clusterf$&k schedule that the Big East has been playing. It's almost impossible to compare teams with that amorphodite.

[DC Muskie]

Easy. Not a definitive.

In my opinion though, D, is that a divisional schedule is a damn site better than the unbalanced clusterf$&k schedule that the Big East has been playing. It's almost impossible to compare teams with that amorphodite.

Actually no it's not. The problem is the large number of conference members, divisions do not solve the "comparison" challenge of leagues that have more than 10 teams in a league.

When you have 12 teams, you basically play an unbalanced schedule anyway. You then get rewarded if the unbalanced schedule works in your favor and win. Say you get Seton Hall on the road and Georgetown at home. Chances are favorable that you will win both. As opposed to say Marquette who might have the reserve schedule. Chances are they split.

Divisions can and have rewarded unworthy teams in seeding. Round robin single league format is the only way to resolve that issue. If they create divisions, they make a situation worse than pod scheduling which at least makes sense in trying to evening out scheduling deficiencies.

[UCGRAD4X]

So, we would play home-home each year within division and rotate home-home every over two years OOD? That would be 16 conference games in a 12 team league? With 10 team we could play all home-home at 18 conference games. In a 12 team 22 home-home would be two much. How else would it work with 12 teams?

[jdm2000]

You all see this Lenn Robbins report that Dayton is joining next year along with Butler and X?

[jdm2000]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

[Masterofreality]

Actually no it's not. The problem is the large number of conference members, divisions do not solve the "comparison" challenge of leagues that have more than 10 teams in a league.

When you have 12 teams, you basically play an unbalanced schedule anyway. You then get rewarded if the unbalanced schedule works in your favor and win. Say you get Seton Hall on the road and Georgetown at home. Chances are favorable that you will win both. As opposed to say Marquette who might have the reserve schedule. Chances are they split.

Divisions can and have rewarded unworthy teams in seeding. Round robin single league format is the only way to resolve that issue. If they create divisions, they make a situation worse than pod scheduling which at least makes sense in trying to evening out scheduling deficiencies.

I'm not getting into an argument here, but the present BE scheduling model is too subjecive and allows for the conference powers that be to give the bottom feeders an easier road. At least a divisional setup structures things more rigidly.

Last I'll say.

[XUFan09]

You all see this Lenn Robbins report that Dayton is joining next year along with Butler and X?

I'll believe nothing about the 10th, 11th, or 12th members until the official announcement is made. ESPN is just as confident that Creighton will be #10.

[UCGRAD4X]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

“poised to implement some of the most innovative and interaction telecasts in college football history”...“in-game interviews with assistant coaches and coordinators on the sidelines”

You have got to be kidding me.

The interviews with the head coaches before and after halftime are the most useless pieces of broadcasting ever devised. They say absolutely nothing but colloquial drivel and tripe.

In-game interviews with assistants will be even more asinine, if that is possible.

If this is their idea of innovation, I see 'crash and burn' as the endearing quality of the new league.

[GoMuskies]

If the worst that happens to us is that we have to continue to be in a league with Dayton, I can certainly live with that. Sure was fun to think about leaving them behind, though.

[Masterofreality]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

If this is true, and I'm trying to get confirmation, it has happened in just the last 36 hours. Still not so sure.

[Stephen FriarFan]

If this is true, and I'm trying to get confirmation, it has happened in just the last 36 hours. Still not so sure.

What are the odds he got the names mixed up...

[GoMuskies]

What are the odds he got the names mixed up...

That wouldn't surprice me. The article seemed pretty matter-of-fact about Dayton's inclusion considering it was the first time we've really heard anyone say Dayton would join this summer.

[ammtd34]

That wouldn't surprice me. The article seemed pretty matter-of-fact about Dayton's inclusion considering it was the first time we've really heard anyone say Dayton would join this summer.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. There isn't even an unnamed source.

[BMoreX]

Agree with you Go.

Not saying he's making things up, but I think this is the first person to mention Dayton as #10.

[kyxu]

Worst news ever.

[DC Muskie]

I'm not getting into an argument here, but the present BE scheduling model is too subjecive and allows for the conference powers that be to give the bottom feeders an easier road. At least a divisional setup structures things more rigidly.

Last I'll say.

There are ways to make it more even, that's what you want, not rigidity. If anything divisions eliminate flexibility.

[coasterville95]

Hyperbole - I can think of lots worse news than having to bring Dayton along to the new playground. I just won't mention what those news items could be for fear of them coming true, and then I get the blame.

Man, in addition to Pope Alarm I need X to Big East Alarm to signal me the milisecond the official announcement is made.

[DC Muskie]

I guess bringing in Creighton and SLU together makes the most sense in terms of easing the roll-out of the league towards the west.

[Masterofreality]

If this is true, and I'm trying to get confirmation, it has happened in just the last 36 hours. Still not so sure.


What are the odds he got the names mixed up...


That's kind of what I'm thinking. There isn't even an unnamed source.


Agree with you Go.

Not saying he's making things up, but I think this is the first person to mention Dayton as #10.

My deep source just responded that this "would be shocking news" to him.

Maybe the NY Post guy has deeper sources, (Murdoch owns both Fox and the NY Post), but he also could be just flinging sheet as many New Yorkers know that the Post likes to do.

Hey, I'm not in the halls or in the rooms, but this is a bomb out of the blue if true, if, for nothing else, than that there had been an expressed desire to not raid the A10 more than just 2 in year one to give it time to adjust. If the dump is now in that is 3 gone now.

[coasterville95]

Not to mention the A10 losing Temple and Charlotte so adding Dayton would mean 5 out in a year. Now, that said, they have had a year's notice to prepare for Charlotte and Temple, and an undetermined time to prepare for our exit. Planning a staggered exit from the A10 at least suggest that somebody from the A10 is at least unofficially at the table to help with the smooth transition.

Yet, I haven't really heard anything about who the A10 might be looking at to backfill.

KYXU - Worse potential news items than Dayton coming with us - they decide to invite Fordham for its New York Jesuit association. :) :) :)

[Masterofreality]

Well, maybe StephenFriarFan, who, I'm sure is in Madison Square Garden at this hour can give us an on site update soon.

[MHettel]

If they create divisions in the Big East then they were not that serious about making this the premier basketball only league.

Why people at the top would even consider it is beyond reason.

You obsession with a nine or 10 team league that allows home-home scheduling has blinded you. I get it, the FANS all want GTown and Nova and Marquette to visit Cintas every year. But thats not the only thing that matters.

Take a look around. We used to have 6 "big" conferences, and now there are 5. Everywhere around you, there is a push for more teams, and a bigger footprint. So you think the best strategy is to go small? Pay attention. Those days are over. If you want to build a competitively sustainable conference, then you need money for the coaches, recruiting budgets and other perks that go along with being on the team (charter flights, pimped out locker rooms, etc). You get the money from TV and other marketing. The TV amounts in particular are determined from models related to the collective teams ability to draw viewers. Drawing viewers is the key, and more teams mean more markets means more people in thos emarkets that are likely to watch a game that has either their local team, or implications for their local teams.

Good or bad. Right or wrong. The days of a small conference being relevant are OVER.

[Stephen FriarFan]

Well, maybe StephenFriarFan, who, I'm sure is in Madison Square Garden at this hour can give us an on site update soon.

Wish I was there , I am at work about to take a long lunch to watch the game, I have gone to the last 5 years but don't get there till Friday..

Another weird thing in that story was this: * Sources tell The Post that Barclays Center is getting “extremely’’ significant interest from Fox Sports and NBC to make a deal for all of the college basketball games that the arena controls.

Why would that be? who would they want to block or why would they want control for all College games?

[Masterofreality]

Wish I was there , I am at work about to take a long lunch to watch the game, I have gone to the last 5 years but don't get there till Friday..

Another weird thing in that story was this: * Sources tell The Post that Barclays Center is getting “extremely’’ significant interest from Fox Sports and NBC to make a deal for all of the college basketball games that the arena controls.

Why would that be? who would they want to block or why would they want control for all College games?

The more I analyze that story, based upon everything that has been told to me, I believe it less....but wtf do I know?

[xubrew]

Wish I was there , I am at work about to take a long lunch to watch the game, I have gone to the last 5 years but don't get there till Friday..

Another weird thing in that story was this: * Sources tell The Post that Barclays Center is getting “extremely’’ significant interest from Fox Sports and NBC to make a deal for all of the college basketball games that the arena controls.

Why would that be? who would they want to block or why would they want control for all College games?

I can't see how that deal would include conference tournaments.

That building hosts a lot of tournaments/classics/shootouts or whatever you want to call these games that are organized by a third party. Getting exclusive rights to those is probably what they're talking about. It seemed as though through November and December there was something going on there every week.

[DC Muskie]

You obsession with a nine or 10 team league that allows home-home scheduling has blinded you. I get it, the FANS all want GTown and Nova and Marquette to visit Cintas every year. But thats not the only thing that matters.

Take a look around. We used to have 6 "big" conferences, and now there are 5. Everywhere around you, there is a push for more teams, and a bigger footprint. So you think the best strategy is to go small? Pay attention. Those days are over. If you want to build a competitively sustainable conference, then you need money for the coaches, recruiting budgets and other perks that go along with being on the team (charter flights, pimped out locker rooms, etc). You get the money from TV and other marketing. The TV amounts in particular are determined from models related to the collective teams ability to draw viewers. Drawing viewers is the key, and more teams mean more markets means more people in thos emarkets that are likely to watch a game that has either their local team, or implications for their local teams.

Good or bad. Right or wrong. The days of a small conference being relevant are OVER.

Did you miss the news that says we are joining the Big East?

It will be made up of 10-12 teams.

Not sure where you have been, but I will try and fill you in...

See there are seven Catholic schools in the Big East that didn't like the expansion the football side was doing to keep up with the other football conferences, so they decided to break away and create their own conference.

I can't believe you've missed out on the biggest story of this program's history!

Anyway, as I mentioned, there are seven schools. There have been rumors that Butler and Xavier (that's us!) would be added this summer. So seven plus two more is nine.

There have also been rumors that three more teams may be added over the next season or following.

Nine + three equals twelve.

This is a smaller number than the old Big East, SEC, ACC, BIG 10.

I would say going big for the old Big East was completely unsustainable, and I have evidence by the fact those seven schools broke away to create a smaller conference. That's weird isn't it? The Catholic 7 have decided to narrow their scope for conference affiliation, and yet will still get a significant amount of money! How did that happen if they haven't grown out to more markets?

How did we get more money in TV revenue by moving into a smaller conference, with a smaller footprint while leaving a conference that has 16 footprints?! I'm looking around like you told me to...I don't see how the Big East is going to expand for the sake of expanding.

Other than that your post was great. You seem to be very on top of current events.

[GoMuskies]

Providence is getting on my bad side today. At least we had the good sense to wait until the second half to get blown out by these jokers.

[xubrew]

You obsession with a nine or 10 team league that allows home-home scheduling has blinded you. I get it, the FANS all want GTown and Nova and Marquette to visit Cintas every year. But thats not the only thing that matters.

Take a look around. We used to have 6 "big" conferences, and now there are 5. Everywhere around you, there is a push for more teams, and a bigger footprint. So you think the best strategy is to go small? Pay attention. Those days are over. If you want to build a competitively sustainable conference, then you need money for the coaches, recruiting budgets and other perks that go along with being on the team (charter flights, pimped out locker rooms, etc). You get the money from TV and other marketing. The TV amounts in particular are determined from models related to the collective teams ability to draw viewers. Drawing viewers is the key, and more teams mean more markets means more people in thos emarkets that are likely to watch a game that has either their local team, or implications for their local teams.

Good or bad. Right or wrong. The days of a small conference being relevant are OVER.

Can you explain why the Big Twelve ratings for football and basketball actually went up last year with the ten team single division format?? (Actually, I'm pretty sure I know the answer as to whether or not you're able to explain that).

Wouldn't hire ratings mean more lucritive TV deals, and fewer teams mean bigger shares??

[coasterville95]

Providence down 8 at the break. The last thing we need is Cronin getting on a lucky streak at the tourney. It would feed his whole "when we played in the Big East" ego trip he is developing.

[SM#24]

"when we played in the Big East"
It was the worst basketball we've played since the Ed Badger/Tony Yates days

[GoMuskies]

UC blowing a 17 point lead and losing to a "lowly" C7 school (I'm sure that's what UC is claiming these days) would be a thing of beauty.

[LA Muskie]

My deep source just responded that this "would be shocking news" to him.

Hey, I'm not in the halls or in the rooms, but this is a bomb out of the blue if true, if, for nothing else, than that there had been an expressed desire to not raid the A10 more than just 2 in year one to give it time to adjust. If the dump is now in that is 3 gone now.
I am hearing the exact same thing. And I think we may be reading too much into that article. He says it matter-of-factly, which doesn't come across as particularly credible given what we know about the discussions. My guess is that this would be the media once again assuming more about Dayton's role than is accurate. That's not to say that they might not slip in, but my sources say they are far from a lock. (And as recently as a week ago, they were not even in the discussion for #10.)

[danaandvictory]

I am hearing the exact same thing. And I think we may be reading too much into that article. He says it matter-of-factly, which doesn't come across as particularly credible given what we know about the discussions. My guess is that this would be the media once again assuming more about Dayton's role than is accurate. That's not to say that they might not slip in, but my sources say they are far from a lock. (And as recently as a week ago, they were not even in the discussion for #10.)

I file this article with Feinstein's from a couple of months ago. Too definitive from a source that hasn't been on this story in the past. I'd trust what LA, MOR, Broering/Snow, and SFF say over pretty much any mainstream media speculation.

Question for LA: Why do you think the media is so fixated on Dayton, given that your sources (which gibe with MORs and what I've heard as well) seem bearish on their chances?

[XUFan09]

I am hearing the exact same thing. And I think we may be reading too much into that article. He says it matter-of-factly, which doesn't come across as particularly credible given what we know about the discussions. My guess is that this would be the media once again assuming more about Dayton's role than is accurate. That's not to say that they might not slip in, but my sources say they are far from a lock. (And as recently as a week ago, they were not even in the discussion for #10.)

I feel like it's one of those things where you remember that they broke the story if they're right and you don't remember it if they're wrong. Same goes with ESPN definitively saying Creighton will be #10. They can't both be right. Both could also still be wrong though.

[Masterofreality]

I've been monitoring Twitter all day and none of the credible writers like Pete Thamel, McMurphy and Blauds who have been on top of this story have confirmed or even commented on the Post story.

Gotta believe that if there was anything to it, somebody else would have picked it up.

[LA Muskie]

Question for LA: Why do you think the media is so fixated on Dayton, given that your sources (which gibe with MORs and what I've heard as well) seem bearish on their chances?
I honestly think it is a combination of the program's history and east coast bias. For years they were the media darling and, for some reason, they've never really given up that role even though they no longer have the success to warrant it. Especially on the east coast, where SLU and Creighton might as well be in Colorado. Really, that's all I've got. And that's just conjecture on my part.

[Masterofreality]

This would be so udump- esque.

- Read Story
- Think they've won.
- Find out later it's false
- Lose again.
- Blame everyone else

[xudash]

I honestly think it is a combination of the program's history and east coast bias. For years they were the media darling and, for some reason, they've never really given up that role even though they no longer have the success to warrant it. Especially on the east coast, where SLU and Creighton might as well be in Colorado. Really, that's all I've got. And that's just conjecture on my part.

Sorry, I just don't see that. I agree that they had some stature in the '60's and 70's, but not now. They certainly haven't done anything to warrant a carryover effect.

I agree that it's conjecture on your part. No dig intended.

[Title_BU]

I honestly do not understand how they are under consideration, much less anything else. I'm not sure what you are looking at if you look at that program and see anything other than "below average".

[Stephen FriarFan]

So we got a Pope , nothing else happened in sports today, lunch was good..tough day to give up swearing for lent.

So that had to be a jump or slip up by the Post , there were no meetings today , just a few yesterday, and as of last night no real news from the Presidents..
Also as someone else stated the Presidents were trying to show the A-10 a little mercy and not empty the inventory one one sweep.

[LA Muskie]

Sorry, I just don't see that. I agree that they had some stature in the '60's and 70's, but not now. They certainly haven't done anything to warrant a carryover effect.

I agree that it's conjecture on your part. No dig intended.

To be clear I don't think they deserve any stature. But they nevertheless seem to have at least some lingering goodwill. Just look at their preseason rankings and how few wins it takes them to start getting votes in the polls. I don't get it. But I also can't ignore it.

[MarvAlbert]

Honestly, if dayton is added to the conference, they are essentially being added to be a punching bag. If you add a team like dayton, you get a team that will have around a top 100 rpi and wont embarrass the conference OOC, but doesn't really have a chance to compete year in and year out in conference. Do I want dayton? no. I say stay at 10 or just get St. Louis and Richmond and call it a day, but I can understand the rationale.

[paulxu]

"OK Dan, it's time to cut back to the game at the Cintas for a side-line interview during this time out. Back to you Erin."
"Thanks Keith. I'm here near the Muskie's bench with someone who looks like my Nascar friend, 50 cent. Hey fella."
"Uh, waz up?"
"Well, we're here for the Dayton game, who is also a member of the Big East. Can you tell me what all those presidential pictures are for?"
"They like melons."
"Huh?"
"Haven't won a game here since before I was born.'
"Well, what's your name anyway young man."
"CJ"
"Are you on something tonight CJ?"
"Deam."
"OK, back to you Keith."

[BBC 08]

Damn it. Man is holding me down. Public reps, Paul. Last line got me. On something? Deam.

[xubrew]

I honestly do not understand how they are under consideration, much less anything else. I'm not sure what you are looking at if you look at that program and see anything other than "below average".

The Cubs are below average too, but they have a lot of fans.

Dayton is interesting. I believe they've won just two tournament games since the field expanded to 64, yet they average over 12,000 a game. Basketball is the ultimate fair weather sport. Fans come out when teams are winning, but you pretty much have to be winning. Even major programs will lose their fans if they have multiple down years. In football there are multiple programs that spend far more time outside the top 25 than they do in it, but still pack the house. In basketball, those kinds of programs are very few and far between. If a team doesn't play their way into being a likely tournament team, chances are there are no fans. Nova at the beginning of the year and had games where it didn't look like there were 3000 people in the stands. Once they started looking like a tournament team, people showed up. That's exhibit Z of basketball being a fair weather sport.

Dayton finished twelve in the Atlantic Ten, but still drew big crowds. They miss the tournament more than they make it. Is there another team in the country that misses the tournament more often than not and averages 12,000 a game?? I mean....can you imagine what the fans would be like if they ever did do anything??

That's at least noteworthy, and perhaps that's part of the appeal.

[MHettel]

The Cubs are below average too, but they have a lot of fans.

Dayton is interesting. I believe they've won just two tournament games since the field expanded to 64, yet they average over 12,000 a game. Basketball is the ultimate fair weather sport. Fans come out when teams are winning, but you pretty much have to be winning. Even major programs will lose their fans if they have multiple down years. In football there are multiple programs that spend far more time outside the top 25 than they do in it, but still pack the house. In basketball, those kinds of programs are very few and far between. If a team doesn't play their way into being a likely tournament team, chances are there are no fans. Nova at the beginning of the year and had games where it didn't look like there were 3000 people in the stands. Once they started looking like a tournament team, people showed up. That's exhibit Z of basketball being a fair weather sport.

Dayton finished twelve in the Atlantic Ten, but still drew big crowds. They miss the tournament more than they make it. Is there another team in the country that misses the tournament more often than not and averages 12,000 a game?? I mean....can you imagine what the fans would be like if they ever did do anything??

That's at least noteworthy, and perhaps that's part of the appeal.

300,000,000 people in the US, and somehow 12,000 should be enough to get a bad team in a good conference.

Dayton doesnt bring much from a basketball perspective, and partially duplicates the footprint of the XU market. Thats why they aren't coming.

[Masterofreality]

udump gets 12,000 per game because there literally is nothing else to do in dayton, ohio.

12,000 people does not equal any type of national name appeal.

[xubrew]

300,000,000 people in the US, and somehow 12,000 should be enough to get a bad team in a good conference.

Dayton doesnt bring much from a basketball perspective, and partially duplicates the footprint of the XU market. Thats why they aren't coming.

I don't think they're definitively in or out. I don't think the presidents have decided and agreed upon what they want. If they had, they'd be doing it. I do think the network wants them more than the presidents do.

[Masterofreality]

I do think the network wants them more than the presidents do.

With all due respect, Brew, the network wants 12 schools, but they are conflicted over the market overlap....somewhat mitigated by the good appearance of a full house on TV.

ESPN Big East games wih lots of empty seats like at South Florida do not make for exciting TV.

[Masterofreality]

By the way, 6:00pm and still no back-up for the NY Post story.

Big East and NY blogger Adam Zagoria, who also is on SNY TV just wrote this in an article about Seton Hall's expectations for next season and moving into a newly reorganized Big East.

"That league will feature the Catholic 7 and is expected to add Butler, Creighton and Xavier."

If something had changed, you have to believe that it would have been circulating through MSG.

[MarvAlbert]

Andy Katz was just on tv at the St. John's vs. Villanova game and just said it's expected the C7 will send out invitations/add more teams in 7-10 days

[BMoreX]

@ESPNAndyKatz: Catholic 7 Big East prez and ADs met today in NYC, discussed membership, search firm for new commish; announcement of new members 7-10 days.

[rove02]

Andy Katz was just on tv at the St. John's vs. Villanova game and just said it's expected the C7 will send out invitations/add more teams in 7-10 days

Not to nitpick but he said they would announce the new members in 7-10 days not send out invitations. If they were sending out invitations in 7-10 days it could be even longer before we heard who was getting in.

[Stephen FriarFan]

If you are watching the Big East Tournament, Andy Katz was just on during the game giving latest update. He said they will anounce new members in 7-10 days.. Nothing new. He repeated all the names , did not say anything about offers already made.

[MarvAlbert]

Not to nitpick but he said they would announce the new members in 7-10 days not send out invitations. If they were sending out invitations in 7-10 days it could be even longer before we heard who was getting in.

I wasn't 100% on what he said (I don't have dvr on the tv I'm watching). Glad I'm not the only one that heard it.

[Masterofreality]

If you think that there have been no "back channel" talks prior to now, I've got some fertile crop land in Death Valley to sell you.

[coasterville95]

Oh, a double negative. Ill. Ill buy the fertile land in Death Valley that there haven't been no back Chanel talks.

[Masterofreality]

So, here is Robbins' take now. He F-ed up. This just posted by Archdeacon in the dump daily news:

"A report in the New York Post Wednesday said Dayton, will join Xavier and Butler as additions to the seven next season and Creighton and Saint Louis would join in 2014. But Lenn Robbins who wrote the story then told our Doug Harris late Wednesday afternoon that he’d head Dayton would be the last team in.

He said the reference was to the 12th team in, not the 10th."

Trust me. udump in the revised Big East is NOT a done deal.

[MHettel]

I don't think they're definitively in or out. I don't think the presidents have decided and agreed upon what they want. If they had, they'd be doing it. I do think the network wants them more than the presidents do.

Actually, I think Dayton is a viable candidate, but it really depends on how many teams are in the conference. In my mind, they are not one of the first 10, and I think they got it right with Creighton, if that is truly the choice.

But they make a case for the 12th spot. I think SLU is in for sure as #11 (great facility, good market that is underserved for college BBall). Richmond vs. UD for spot #12.

It would be awesome if the BE just said "settle it on the court" and just let them play a game to determine #12. THAT would draw some viewers.

[MarvAlbert]

It's being reported that dayton will be the 10th team next year

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but take it for what it's worth

[jdm2000]

It's being reported that dayton will be the 10th team next year

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but take it for what it's worth

Uh...see page 66 and all subsequent pages of this thread. ;)

[Masterofreality]

It's being reported that dayton will be the 10th team next year

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZS xkf8IM

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but take it for what it's worth


Uh...see page 66 and all subsequent pages of this thread. ;)

How about looking 2 posts up?

[MarvAlbert]

I will ban myself from posting until tomorrow as punishment...I hope I can earn your forgiveness with time

[xubrew]

Actually, I think Dayton is a viable candidate, but it really depends on how many teams are in the conference. In my mind, they are not one of the first 10, and I think they got it right with Creighton, if that is truly the choice.

But they make a case for the 12th spot. I think SLU is in for sure as #11 (great facility, good market that is underserved for college BBall). Richmond vs. UD for spot #12.

It would be awesome if the BE just said "settle it on the court" and just let them play a game to determine #12. THAT would draw some viewers.

I'm quite certain that Dayton is not in the first ten.

I'm indifferent. I think a lot of people are railing against Dayton simply because they're fun to pick on and it would be fun to watch them wallow in misery. They wouldn't be a terrible selection for the 11th or 12th team.

[muskiefan82]

I'm quite certain that Dayton is not in the first ten.

I'm indifferent. I think a lot of people are railing against Dayton simply because they're fun to pick on and it would be fun to watch them wallow in misery. They wouldn't be a terrible selection for the 11th or 12th team.

Someone has to finish in the bottom half. Why not let it be Dayton?

[nuts4xu]

Someone has to finish in the bottom half. Why not let it be Dayton?

Because Dayton is so shitty, they are not worthy of being in the bottom half of any league we are in.

In case anyone has lost sight of the fact, dayton sucks ox balls.

[LA Muskie]

Can we quit with all the Dayton talk? It's seriously ruining my buzz. We are on the cusp of joining the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, and Butler (among others) to form the premier basketball-centric conference in the country. It is the culmination of just about all we have collectively hoped for over the last 3 decades. The athletic department will generate 8-12 times more money than it currently generates for the university. We will get even more national exposure. We will recruit even better (or at least more heralded) athletes. We won't ever have to travel to Olean ever again.

Yet despite all of that, we are complaining because DePaul and Seton Hall just may have competition at the bottom. Really? Really???

I don't know who "deserves" to be in this league outside Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU (and the latter 2 won't even be in it). So I'm not going to use that word to describe Dayton. But I know I have a hard time getting excited about any of Dayton's "competitors" to join the conference as well. Aside from a random year here or there, I just don't see any of them regularly being in the top 3-4 of the league. So who the hell cares. I don't. I'd rather stay at 9 or 10. But if TV wants 12, and if TV wants to throw $4+mm/yr at us, then make it 12. We'll all live.

[Muskie1000]

I agree with you LA, but I can just see it now. If you think Dayton fans are hard to take now, we will never hear the end of it. It won't matter if they were the last team picked, it won't matter if they continue to blow - all we'll hear is how they must be one of the premier leagues since the C7 wanted them. Now they will be able to compete, now they will be able to dominate. There is nothing wrong with trying to be positive, but they are downright delusional.

[throwbackmuskie]

Like someone said, every conference needs a bottom feeder, in this case it will be dayton. The think that erks me about them getting in is, well they have not done a thing to deserve to get in. Their claim to fame is they host the last four teams to get into MM.

[kyxu]

Can we quit with all the Dayton talk? It's seriously ruining my buzz. We are on the cusp of joining the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's, and Butler (among others) to form the premier basketball-centric conference in the country. It is the culmination of just about all we have collectively hoped for over the last 3 decades. The athletic department will generate 8-12 times more money than it currently generates for the university. We will get even more national exposure. We will recruit even better (or at least more heralded) athletes. We won't ever have to travel to Olean ever again.

Yet despite all of that, we are complaining because DePaul and Seton Hall just may have competition at the bottom. Really? Really???

I don't know who "deserves" to be in this league outside Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, and VCU (and the latter 2 won't even be in it). So I'm not going to use that word to describe Dayton. But I know I have a hard time getting excited about any of Dayton's "competitors" to join the conference as well. Aside from a random year here or there, I just don't see any of them regularly being in the top 3-4 of the league. So who the hell cares. I don't. I'd rather stay at 9 or 10. But if TV wants 12, and if TV wants to throw $4+mm/yr at us, then make it 12. We'll all live.

When it was announced Butler and Xavier as the prohibitive locks to join the C7 in the new conference, I was honestly surprised that many on this board didn't complain that Butler was being included.

I mean, if you ask some on here, the success of their program is "unsustainable".

[xubrew]

I agree with you LA, but I can just see it now. If you think Dayton fans are hard to take now, we will never hear the end of it. It won't matter if they were the last team picked, it won't matter if they continue to blow - all we'll hear is how they must be one of the premier leagues since the C7 wanted them. Now they will be able to compete, now they will be able to dominate. There is nothing wrong with trying to be positive, but they are downright delusional.

The combination of the sounds of Dayton fans gloating about getting in and Xavier fans bitching about how Dayton shouldn't be in would generate a powerful and awful noise. Just imagine if both those noises joined forces.

Lets invite Wright State. They'll be a bottom feeder. They're not an institutional fit. They've done nothing to deserve it. It would be funny, though, and it would mean not having to listen to that awful racket.

[PMI]

When it was announced Butler and Xavier as the prohibitive locks to join the C7 in the new conference, I was honestly surprised that many on this board didn't complain that Butler was being included.

I mean, if you ask some on here, the success of their program is "unsustainable".

I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure everyone was fine with Butler being added. They will definitely bring the worst gym/facilities/fan support to the table, but they are a far, far cry from the likes of dayton on the court.

[LadyMuskie]

In some ways it might be better to let dayton in on our coattails. They're sure to be the cellar dwellers in the Big East, feeding on the scum that feeds on scum. But, if they stay in the A10 with only Fordham, LaSalle and St. Bonaventure as competition, they're likely to compete for that top spot every year, possibly winning the tournament and heading to the NCAA tournament. I'd rather they act as our whipping boy in the new Big East, sitting home every March dreaming about becoming Xavier, than have to listen to them gloat about winning a pitifully depleted A10 that they will make sound like the world's best basketball conference.

Really, when it comes to dayton, there is no upside. Let them in, and they'll act like a-holes. Keep them out and they'll act like a-holes. It's almost as if their entire fanbase is just made up of a-holes.

[Masterofreality]

Whatever.

The dump will most likely be in, but not in 2013.

The thing that is almost comical, though, is that on the new message board site for "Holy Land" basketball, there are more Cryer fans....now including Swampy....than any other school- and they are not even a lock to be in yet! They're using that board to pontificate on their qualifications, while demeaning schools like Richmond and Creighton...as if they are a part of the original Catholic 7.

The premature ejaculation that dump fans had over that NY Post article yesterday was hilarious. Swampy was all over it. Other school's fans are now getting a taste of how insufferable those inbred cretins to the North are. Soon, most probably but still not definitely,they will see the full picture.

[Stephen FriarFan]

this is from ESPN , almost the exact same thing that Katz said last night,

The presidents of the Big East's seven Catholic schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova -- met with their athletic directors in New York on Wednesday and will announce new membership for the new Big East within 7-10 days, according to a source who had first-hand knowledge of the meeting.

The presidents also told the ADs that a search firm has been hired to find a new commissioner.

Additional members have not yet been invited, so naming any set teams is premature, although the favorites remain Xavier and Butler out of the Atlantic 10 and Creighton out of the Missouri Valley. Dayton and Saint Louis also are candidates from the A-10, with Richmond probably a long shot.


The new Big East will begin play in 2013-14, and will hold its postseason tournament at Madison Square Garden.

[paulxu]

That raises an interesting question. Did Fr Graham attend with some assistant instead of Bobinski? Would Mike excuse himself from these high level discussions as he will be at Georgia Tech in a few weeks?

[xudash]

That raises an interesting question. Did Fr Graham attend with some assistant instead of Bobinski? Would Mike excuse himself from these high level discussions as he will be at Georgia Tech in a few weeks?

Paul,

SF's post reads as though only the C7 execs made that meeting; the invitees aren't in the room yet.

When the announcements are made, I believe you'll see Father Graham and Butler's President at a podium with someone, or with some people, as well as Creighton's President should they make the initial cut.

Mike probably wouldn't make the trip for two reasons:

1. His transition, as you mentioned; and

2. His workload with the NCAA Tournament.

[JTG]

That raises an interesting question. Did Fr Graham attend with some assistant instead of Bobinski? Would Mike excuse himself from these high level discussions as he will be at Georgia Tech in a few weeks?

Mike has been and will be in Indy 24-7 until Sunday evening, with the selection committee. So some one else had to attend if invited

[GoMuskies]

I guess it will be Thorr.

[paulxu]

Damn. My bad. Had a giant, morning brain meltdown.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Andy Katz just tweeted this.
The presidents of the Big East's seven Catholic schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova -- met with their athletic directors in New York and all of them have agreed that Dayton would be a terrible addition. The president of Georgetown said "right now we just don't think Dayton would be a good fit simply because they suck and I can't even remember when was the last time they were good" he went on to praise Dayton for the NIT Championship and thought if they continue to work hard and continue their NIT success he doesn't see why they couldn't move on to the Horizon league. He ended the tweet with F**k Dayton.

[Titanxman04]

Andy Katz just tweeted this.
The presidents of the Big East's seven Catholic schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova -- met with their athletic directors in New York and all of them have agreed that Dayton would be a terrible addition. The president of Georgetown said "right now we just don't think Dayton would be a good fit simply because they suck and I can't even remember when was the last time they were good" he went on to praise Dayton for the NIT Championship and thought if they continue to work hard and continue their NIT success he doesn't see why they couldn't move on to the Horizon league. He ended the tweet with F**k Dayton.

Hmm... I thought I heard that Twitter granted Katz the ability to post more than 140 characters for his tweets. I didn't believe it until now.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Yessssssss Katz and only Katz is allowed to have 2000 characters for his tweets as long as it is related to Dayton in a negative light.

[Westbrook36]

Hello everyone, Villanova fan here, long time lurker(well since Dec. at least), 1st time poster.


First order of business, F**K Dayton, no seriously F**K Dayton and that delusional alternate universe know as udpride.


Extremely excited to have Xavier as a new conference mate, excellent program and great addition for the Big East. Butler, Creighton, & Saint Louis are also very fine potential additions. Dayton and Richmond not so much, nothing against Richmond, which is a fine school, but a program not to the level necessary to compete in the Big East. The last two potential candidates really don't excite anybody, so what I really hope happens is that next Mon./Tue. the Big East announces Butler, Creighton, Xavier for 2013 and Saint Louis and another school to be named later, for 2014.

That way the conference would have a whole year to vet all potential candidates. I don't want to just settle for member #12 and isn't that what we would be doing with either UD or UR? Both of those would just join DePaul & Seton Hall at the bottom, so why not take a flyer(calm down Dayton troglodytes, not referring to you) on some up and coming program. Worst case scenario is they just replace Dayton or Richmond as bottomfeeders.

My off the wall suggestion, don't laugh, Belmont. Seriously quit laughing, thinking about it for a minute. Firstly, REALLY nice market(Nashville), secondly small private religious(Christian) school, thirdly up and coming program; definately trending UP. This year they are making their 6th NCAA tourney appearance in the last 10 years. They won the OVC regular and postseason titles in their first year in that conference(over a respectable Murray St. team).

I'm not campaigning for Belmont, just think taking a year to think it over(all potential possible programs) would be a prudent idea, plus the added benefit of reading the unintentional comedy goldmine that is udpride for a whole year, win win scenario.

[xu95]

If the Big East chose Belmont over Dayton the suicide rate in Dayton would spike.

[GoMuskies]

Belmont is Xavier....in 1988. Promising start for them, but a ways to go.

[BBC 08]

I love the idea of Belmont since I live in Nashville but no one gives two shits about that school in the city outside of their music program. This market is too dominated by the SEC for anyone to notice Belmont. No one talks about their basketball program. All I see are sporadic billboards around town and that's it. Richmond is a better addition than them.

[XUFan09]

Richmond wouldn't be a bottom dweller alongside DePaul and Seton Hall (but Dayton definitely would). They'd be in that middle tier with Providence and St. John's, I think.

[Westbrook36]

BTW, my preferred choice of school #12 is VCU, but I don't think they're getting in solely based on the fact they're a Big public school. Really is disappointing that they don't met the profile, VCU is almost perfect fit is everything else.

Just playing devil advocate alittle with the Belmont thing.

[GoMuskies]

I think Belmont would be an excellent replacement for Xavier and Butler in the A-10.

[xudash]

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/a-new-big-east-is-a-better-big-east/

[BBC 08]

I think Belmont would be an excellent replacement for Xavier and Butler in the A-10.

This is a better fit for Belmont. Would do wonders for their program.

[Masterofreality]

More info from Blauds.

I'm still not hearing anything about udump for 2013.

http://ajerseyguy.com/

[Masterofreality]

Uh, oh......

Just heard that udump is now offering to pay an "entrance fee" to get in the league next year to jump ahead of Creighton....and some are listening. GTown and some others are not in favor. Don't know what that will do to the dynamic.

Stuff is getting interesting. Money always talks.

[paulxu]

If it was a bidding war, and Richmond was interested, they've got a 2 billion dollar endowement (I think) although I have no idea if that can be used for athletics.

[ammtd34]

Uh, oh......

Just heard that udump is now offering to pay an "entrance fee" to get in the league next year to jump ahead of Creighton....and some are listening. GTown and some others are not in favor. Don't know what that will do to the dynamic.

Stuff is getting interesting. Money always talks.

That's funny.

[RealDeal]

Uh, oh......

Just heard that udump is now offering to pay an "entrance fee" to get in the league next year to jump ahead of Creighton....and some are listening. GTown and some others are not in favor. Don't know what that will do to the dynamic.

Stuff is getting interesting. Money always talks.

Wonder who would win a bidding war between ud and Creighton?

[Masterofreality]

“@BSnowScout: Spoke to a coach of one of Butler's Olympic sports, their travel budget is tripled for next yr. That is effect of Big East TV deal”

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Pete Thamel ‏ @ SIPeteThamel
Presidents and athletic officials at Xavier and Butler left A-10 meetings this am. No announcement expected, but they are gone.

Pete Thamel ‏ @ SIPeteThamel
The Xavier and Butler departures (without Dayton and SLU) mean that if the Catholic Seven go to 10 next year, Creighton had edge.

[BMoreX]

If they're offering money to join, I expect them to be in.

[JTG]

Uh, oh......

Just heard that udump is now offering to pay an "entrance fee" to get in the league next year to jump ahead of Creighton....and some are listening. GTown and some others are not in favor. Don't know what that will do to the dynamic.

Stuff is getting interesting. Money always talks.

Who is going to act as the Official Pimp of the C7 and take Dayton's money ? Paying to get an invite, pathetic .

[coasterville95]

Ok, even if UD gets in by giving the Big East a suitcase full of cash - that's cool, thats more legend (read canon fodder) we can use on them in the future years. "Yeah, the only reason you are even in this league is you had to bribe your way in"

If it comes to cash - I hope Creighton (SLU and Richmond) all get a shot at a counter offer. Let the eBay auction for the 10th spot fly (as long as we get a share of the entrance fee, that is) I wonder who would win that auction.

So, if I read JTT's post correctly - it means that what happened was the A10 decided to have a membership meeting during the tournament (may as well since it's likely all the necessary parties are at Barclay's), and sometime during this meeting, somethign resulted in both the Butler and Xavier delegations either being asked to leave ("Ok, you want out of the A-10? Go, now! Don't let the door hit you! You are no longer needed at this 2013-2014 planning meeting" ) -or- we announced we were leaving and said "Well, now that you have our duly completed exit paperwork, there really is no point in us staying here. We have a conference meeting to attend over at Madison Square Garden, so if you'll excuse us!"

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Pete Thamel ‏@SIPeteThamel
To clarify on Xavier and Butler: Schools officials physically got up and left the A-10 meetings this morning.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So, if I read JTT's post correctly - it means that what happened was the A10 decided to have a membership meeting during the tournament (may as well since it's likely all the necessary parties are at Barclay's), and sometime during this meeting, somethign resulted in both the Butler and Xavier delegations either being asked to leave ("Ok, you want out of the A-10? Go, now! Don't let the door hit you! You are no longer needed at this 2013-2014 planning meeting" ) -or- we announced we were leaving and said "Well, now that you have our duly completed exit paperwork, there really is no point in us staying here. We have a conference meeting to attend over at Madison Square Garden, so if you'll excuse us!"
I think this is what Xavier and Butler did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YaaZZN9VYs