VCU-Richmond Game Tonight

[Cheesehead]

Great game but Shaka elects not to foul up by 3 w/ 13 seconds left and Richmond hits 3 w/ 1.5 seconds left to tie the game and goes on to beat VCU in OT.

Brought back memories of the OSU game. Why in the world does a coach do that?

[bobbiemcgee]

Tied for 1st - Flagship!

[GetUp5]

Great game but Shaka elects not to foul up by 3 w/ 13 seconds left and Richmond hits 3 w/ 1.5 seconds left to tie the game and goes on to beat VCU in OT.

Brought back memories of the OSU game. Why in the world does a coach do that?

I'm not saying I wouldn't foul, but the argument is that there's no way you can LOSE in regulation if you don't foul. If you FOUL, there IS a way to LOSE in regulation.

[Cheesehead]

I'm not saying I wouldn't foul, but the argument is that there's no way you can LOSE in regulation if you don't foul. If you FOUL, there IS a way to LOSE in regulation.

I understand that and yet both games ended up being a loss for the team that chose not to foul. I understand both sides to it. If the foul is timed right and in this case I would have done it right before the player got the hand off for the 3. There would have been 2 second left and you get the ball left. Of course one could argue that Richmond could miss intentionally and put it back in. This happens very rarely, however.

[xubrew]

If you can create a situaiton where a team must hit the first freethrow, then miss the second, then get the rebound, and then tip it back in, then yes you should foul. Not only should you foul, but when the team tries to miss the second freetrhow on purpose, jump into the lane and purposfully goal tend the shot to insure that your team is getting it out of bounds.

With ten seconds to play, that's not the situaiton that you're creating if you're up three without the ball, though. We see teams that are up one or two points with the ball with ten seconds, or even five seconds to go, lose games. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen, and it isn't hard to imagine how it could happen. Essentially, if you foul up three with that much time on the clock then you are not creating the situation I listed above. You are creating a situation where you are up one or two with the ball, and then suddenly it is you that is having to hit freethrows to ice the game, which is not a given.

Also, you can't win until time expires, which is another reason I think coaches are willing to play defense so as to not stop the clock.

Having said that, VCU should have fouled. With less than three seconds, just foul. If you're up one with the ball with ten seconds to go you can easily still lose. If you're up one with three seconds to go and have the ball, it's virtually impossible.

[Cheesehead]

"Having said that, VCU should have fouled. With less than three seconds, just foul. If you're up one with the ball with ten seconds to go you can easily still lose. If you're up one with three seconds to go and have the ball, it's virtually impossible."

Exactly. That is what I was trying to convey.

[vee4xu]

Both VCU and Butler have gotten a taste of being on the road in the A-10. Though, technically VCU was in the same city tonight, it was at the Spiders' home court.

[Cheesehead]

I was actually glad to see Butler lose. Nice to see their luck run out....finally.

[xubrew]

I don't think life on the road in the Atlantic Ten is THAT brutal. It looked as though at least 40 percent of the fans there were Richmond fans anyway. For the last couple of years, Old Dominion, George Mason and Drexel have had home courts that are probably tougher than the majority of the Atlantic Ten. Since they played Richmond every year, they're no stranger to Richmond either.

In the Horizon League it was that way to a lesser extent, but Butler was oftentimes always the single showcase game whenever they played on the road. Arenas that were routinely half full were sold out for Butler, so those weren't exactly easy games to win. I don't think anyone was expecting them to win all of them.

Having said that, VCU's best road win on the season so far is probably St. Bonnies, and they barely won it. They need to do more on the road if htey want to end up with a solid NCAA seed. Butler has won at Northwestern and I think they won at Saint Joe's as well. The win at Dayton was somewhat decent, so they've done more in true road games.

[STL_XUfan]

Why in the world does a coach do that?

A couple of reasons

1. Can't lose argument
2. If they know the foul is coming what is stopping them from throwing up the half court shot when they feel contact (see tu holloway v kstate).
3. You are leading late in the game, what is the one thing you don't want to do? Stop the clock. Foul and they score without the clock moving. Foul with 5 seconds left and now you have to inbound, what if you don't get it in? What if there is a steal? What if they foul quickly and you miss both, and they get a timeout called only needing 2 to win?

Both theories have their flaws, and whichever one doesn't work on a given night is the wrong choice.

[Cheesehead]

A couple of reasons

1. Can't lose argument
2. If they know the foul is coming what is stopping them from throwing up the half court shot when they feel contact (see tu holloway v kstate).
3. You are leading late in the game, what is the one thing you don't want to do? Stop the clock. Foul and they score without the clock moving. Foul with 5 seconds left and now you have to inbound, what if you don't get it in? What if there is a steal? What if they foul quickly and you miss both, and they get a timeout called only needing 2 to win?

Both theories have their flaws, and whichever one doesn't work on a given night is the wrong choice.

Understood. In this particular case though, VCU should have fouled. There was no half court shot that you speak of and VCU would have gotten ball back shooting free throws w/ even less time left in the game. No need to inbound ball either. They had a very easy opportunity to foul with 2-3 seconds left. I would foul and take my chances. I am just talking about certain situations.

[Cheesehead]

A couple of reasons

1. Can't lose argument
2. If they know the foul is coming what is stopping them from throwing up the half court shot when they feel contact (see tu holloway v kstate).
3. You are leading late in the game, what is the one thing you don't want to do? Stop the clock. Foul and they score without the clock moving. Foul with 5 seconds left and now you have to inbound, what if you don't get it in? What if there is a steal? What if they foul quickly and you miss both, and they get a timeout called only needing 2 to win?

Both theories have their flaws, and whichever one doesn't work on a given night is the wrong choice.

Understood. In this particular case though, VCU should have fouled. There was no half court shot that you speak of and VCU would have gotten ball back shooting free throws w/ even less time left in the game. No need to inbound ball either. They had a very easy opportunity to foul with 2-3 seconds left. I would foul and take my chances. I am just talking about certain situations.

[GetUp5]

I understand that and yet both games ended up being a loss for the team that chose not to foul. I understand both sides to it. If the foul is timed right and in this case I would have done it right before the player got the hand off for the 3. There would have been 2 second left and you get the ball left. Of course one could argue that Richmond could miss intentionally and put it back in. This happens very rarely, however.

Tu Holloway vs. Kansas State, anyone?

:spaz: