Dezmine Wells

[gladdenguy]

Xavier University should be extremely proud. Dezmine Wells more of a class act than the Xavier administration.

http://baltimoresportsreport.com/maryland-basketball-dez-wells-33759.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

[xsteve1]

Xavier University should be extremely proud. Dezmine Wells more of a class act than the Xavier administration.

http://baltimoresportsreport.com/maryland-basketball-dez-wells-33759.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

This still stings bad. Fr. Graham and the rest of the administration could learn a lot from this 19 year old kid.

[bleedXblue]

Imagine that GG bashing Xavier again.

[DC Muskie]

Man won't let me rep Waggy. Public reps.

[xubrew]

I thought Dez would get a waiver. I'm not shocked that he didn't, but I thought he would. There have been examples similar to this where players did get waivers. Like the article said, he didn't transfer out. He was kicked out. He did not seek a transfer or break any NCAA rules. I thought that would be enough to get him one.

In the long run, it isn't THAT big of a deal. He basically just has to redshirt. He can play next year and will still have three years of eligibility remaining.

[GIMMFD]

Poor guy, he's handled this whole situation so well. It's just not fair to punish a kid like him.

[GoMuskies]

I think he deserves the waiver, but life is tough sometimes.

[Xman95]

I think he deserves the waiver, but life is tough sometimes.

Agree 100%. Plus, if you're the NCAA, you do have to be careful not to open the door for other incidents like this. I mean, what if another player gets booted from a school for breaking its rules (even if no laws are broken) and goes to another school/program? The Wells case could set the precedent.

Ultimately I don't think Wells should have been booted from Xavier. But it was determined that he broke university rules and that was the punishment. It shouldn't be up to the NCAA to decide whether Xavier should change its student policies or if they should have given Wells another chance. The NCAA needs to look at the fact that Dez was expelled from his previous school and is now at a new university. The standard for that is sitting out a year. It sucks, but that's the way it goes. (And anyone who saw my posts knows I'm 100% in the Dez camp on the whole XU situation. Hell, I just changed my Wells avatar this week...couldn't find a good Maryland one to fit yet!)

[sgarcia]

I'm so glad we are one of the best mid-major basketball programs in the country according to the article.

[More Cowbell]

Cleared to play this year.

[blueblob06]

Sorry, this directly violates the "Enough" thread just posted....but it's breaking news...

Jeff Goodman‏@GoodmanCBS
Maryland just released the news officially that Dez Wells is good to go this season and has won his appeal from the NCAA. Shocking news.

[mistabeecee41]

Good for him. I'll be a Terps fan this season.

[Ledgewood]

I have run out of long breathy sighs.

[Juice]

Good for him. I'll be a Terps fan this season.

Agreed. I needed an ACC team to root for against Duke and UNC.

[MHettel]

Wow. He really learned a lesson.

[blueblob06]

Agreed. I needed an ACC team to root for against Duke and UNC.
I'm gonna go ahead and stamp an Elite 8 or better from MD before Wells graduates from there. They have lots of talent coming in.

[GoMuskies]

I have never been a big Maryland fan (Gary Williams always rubbed me the wrong way), but I'll certainly be cheering for them so long as Dez is on the roster. Hopefully he helps them take down Kentucky at the Barclay's Center Friday night!

[gladdenguy]

Imagine that GG bashing Xavier again.

Deservedly so. Not only me, the entire NCAA.

[xubrew]

I think this is the right decision.

He did not break any NCAA rules, and he did not seek a transfer. He was simply not given the opportunity to return to Xavier, much less Xavier's team. As far as the NCAA is concerned, it is the same as if Xavier had closed its doors. When returning to an institution becomes an impossibility, and the reason it is impossible has nothing to do with NCAA rules being broken, they almost always grant the waiver. Not always, but almost always. It's ironic, but being expelled actually helps ones cause.

[DC Muskie]

Good for Dez. Bad for the NCAA.

[X-Fan]

Yeah, that puts quite a stamp on this whole fiasco. You know what's gonna happen: Dez will have a great season, and there will be ALL KINDS of Natl Pub on this. Yet again highlighting how inept Xavier's Admin was in handling this.

I'm happy for Dez, pissed for me (as a X Fan). This is like a bad dream.

[xubrew]

Deservedly so. Not only me, the entire NCAA.

The NCAA is not bashing Xavier. Had Brandon Davies been expelled from BYU, he would have gotten a waiver as well. It's a transfer rule, and since Dez did not seek out a transfer, the rule shouldn't apply to him. That's the way the NCAA is looking at it. Their feelings about whether or not he should or should not have been expelled don't matter because, quite honestly, I seriously doubt they care. All they knew is that he broke no NCAA rules, and that it was impossible for him to return to the school.

[gladdenguy]

Maybe "bashing" is not the correct word. Chuckling and laughing hysterically that Xavier kicked out their best player for doing nothing wrong.

[MU5K1E_MADNE55]

It just makes you wonder....what if Lyons had stopped complaining and had stayed? What if X hadn't messed up this thing with Dez? So much potential...

[SM#24]

The NCAA is not bashing Xavier. Had Brandon Davies been expelled from BYU, he would have gotten a waiver as well. It's a transfer rule, and since Dez did not seek out a transfer, the rule shouldn't apply to him. That's the way the NCAA is looking at it. Their feelings about whether or not he should or should not have been expelled don't matter because, quite honestly, I seriously doubt they care. All they knew is that he broke no NCAA rules, and that it was impossible for him to return to the school.

I don't know Brew, I just can't see the NCAA approving a waiver for a player that broke some school or team rule and was expelled. Dez is not the first player expelled, and I can't recall an instance that a player was given a waiver. With Fairleigh Dickinson on my mind, Lloyd Price did not receive a waiver when we kicked him out.
I think this is the NCAA living up to its word of reviewing each case indvidually on its own merits

[MHettel]

I don't know Brew, I just can't see the NCAA approving a waiver for a player that broke some school or team rule and was expelled. Dez is not the first player expelled, and I can't recall an instance that a player was given a waiver. With Fairleigh Dickinson on my mind, Lloyd Price did not receive a waiver when we kicked him out.
I think this is the NCAA living up to its word of reviewing each case indvidually on its own merits

Except the Myles Davis case, where a kid took classes that had previously been sufficient for eligibility.

[MADXSTER]

The question is..... If Dez Wells was expelled from Maryland for the same reasons and was coming to Xavier, Would he be eligible???

[DC Muskie]

The question is..... If Dez Wells was expelled from Maryland for the same reasons and was coming to Xavier, Would he be eligible???

Doubt it.

This is really a dumb move by the NCAA.

[SM#24]

Doubt it.

This is really a dumb move by the NCAA.

Why ? and Why ?

If the individual circumstances of this case warrant immediate eligibility, then why is it a dumb move ?

I realize the whole "opening up a can of worms", but they can always fall back on "different cirmcumstances" when they feel the next appeal is not warranted. It's pretty much what they do now anyway.

[DC Muskie]

If the roles were reversed what makes you think the NCAA would have given a break to Xavier? When have we ever received a break from the NCAA?

I think kid's that get expelled from one school and transfer to another have to sit out a year. Guys get kicked off of teams all the time, they still have to sit out. Why the NCAA is determining that what happened to Dez was a special circumstance is beyond me. They better grant some waivers to kids who get tossed, no matter what the reason.

[SM#24]

If the roles were reversed what makes you think the NCAA would have given a break to Xavier? When have we ever received a break from the NCAA?

I think kid's that get expelled from one school and transfer to another have to sit out a year. Guys get kicked off of teams all the time, they still have to sit out. Why the NCAA is determining that what happened to Dez was a special circumstance is beyond me. They better grant some waivers to kids who get tossed, no matter what the reason.
As far as reversed roles, I don't know exactly what the NCAA would do, but I would like to think that they wouldn't treat us any differently. I know it seems like we're picked on, but I don't really think that is the case. They did after all treat us and UMd consistently with regards to Davis and Cassell.

I agree that kids get expelled all the time and no waiver. That's why I believe the NCAA DID determine that what happened to Dez was a special circumstance, which in my mind means what we did to Dez was deplorable.

"They better grant some waivers to kids who get tossed, no matter what the reason." - why do they need to do that if the circumstances don't warrant it ?

[DC Muskie]

As far a reversed roles, I don't know exactly what the NCAA would do, but I would like to think that they wouldn't treat us any differently. I know it seems like we're picked on, by I don't really think that is the case. They did after all treat us and UMd consistently with regards to Davis and Casselll.

I agree that kids get expelled all the time and no waiver. That why I believe the NCAA DID determine that what happened to Dez was a special circumstance, which in my mind means what we did to Dez was deplorable.

"They better grant some waivers to kids who get tossed, no matter what the reason." - why do they need to do that if the cirucmstances don't warrant it ?

Well I guess we have different views of the NCAA.

I'm not sure how the NCAA determined what happened to Dez, do they have jurisdiction into his records? What exactly is so special about the Dez case? Is he the only athlete to be wrongfully accused of something and kicked out?

The circumstances of it being warranted or not shouldn't be judged by the NCAA. A kid transfers, he transfers. If you don't want to be forced out of school, don't get kicked out.

[SM#24]

Who knows what the NCAA reviewed. I would like to think it was more than just a quote from Deters in the Enquirer, but who really knows.

What I do know is that I'm not aware of any other time the NCAA granted a waiver to a player that was expelled or forced to transfer. I think even players that get their scholarship pulled have to sit out a year (although I could be wrong about that). So to me, that says the NCAA must have considered this a unique situation. Maryland is a fine program, but they are not Duke or UNC or any other blue blood, so I don't see the NCAA giving them preferential treatment.

No matter how much I want to defend Xavier, the only thing that makes any logical sense to me is that everyone that looks into this feels Dez was wronged (and believe me, I'm usually a person that tends to agree with the authority group in a situation like this). I thought this before the NCAA ruled, and I feel it a 1,000x more strongly today.

If you had asked me as recent as yesterday if Dez was going to win his appeal, I would have said "no way in hell".

Something is not adding up and it all points to Xavier.

[MHettel]

...what we did to Dez was deplorable.



Am I the only one that thinks maybe, JUST MAYBE, Dez was a dumbass. What he did was wrong. Maybe not illegal in the eyes of the law, but wrong. There are plenty of things that are illegal that I do not believe are worng. Conversley, there are a number of things that ARE legal that I think are terribly wrong.

I remember 3 things from the Dez Wells era: 1) Him throwing the first punch in the single worst incident in the last 25 years for the XU Bball program, 2) a bunch of dunks, and 3) him doing something INCREDIBLY STUPID AND IRRESPONSIBLE and suddenly he's a victim.

I dont agree with the NCAA on this, and thats not the first and probably not the last time that I'll fell that way about one of their idiotic decisions.

And what does Dez Wells learn from all of this.....absolutely nothing. no price to pay at all, in fact he benefits from the sympathy. nuts

[SM#24]

That's why it doesn't add up to me. If Dez is really in the wrong, why is EVERYONE so quick to publicly defend him ?
Especially over something as sensitive as rape.

Also, he didn't throw the first punch; he pushed a guy. I think the first punch was thrown by Ellis on UC as he was storming off the bench.

[GoMuskies]

If you're interested in a dazzling display of stupidity (generally in response to people who actually seem to know what they're talking about), read this thread: http://kentucky.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1383&tid=180581799&mid=180581799&sid=888&style=2

[paulxu]

This may have been brought up, but maybe not.
Just like the BYU guy, and the Dayton guy, Dez seems to have violated XU's honor code.
Before when a guy got off criminally, we let him stay on campus...he was innocent (legally) after all. That got the DOE involved because the girls complained of not safe environment (I think). Nobody can win that one.

So Dez's situation comes up with that hanging over the school.
More importantly...IF the student conduct board expelled him...Graham's hands are tied. With the DOE there, he can't override the board.
Hell, even without DOE if he overrides the board he's got all kinds of trouble in the future. So out goes Dez...right or wrong.

BUT...the one thing XU did (which Indiana didn't with Crawford) as far as I understand, is that when the NCAA asked Xavier during the Maryland appeal to let him play this year...XU to it's credit raised no objections.

With all that has happened, I think XU helped Dez in the end by not objecting, and I'm glad that he'll get to play. He's paid a price for his mistake (whether it was a large one, or small one) and the price is not starting and finishing his career here. I really believe, from what he said post incident, that playing at X was what he really wanted.

[GIMMFD]

Dez didn't want to move, trust me he paid a price in his own eyes. He loved Xavier, he still texts us to check in on us, and asked about the basketball program still too. He enjoyed his time at Xavier, sure what he did was morally wrong, but who can say during their teenage years they didn't want to just have sex and have a good time? It's college after all. In the end, I'm very glad he gets to immediately play because in the end, he is a good person, and if you don't really know him, you wouldn't be able to find that out. He wasn't the stereotypical basketball player on campus, and I'm sure I'm not the only to make that statement.

[xubrew]

I don't know Brew, I just can't see the NCAA approving a waiver for a player that broke some school or team rule and was expelled. Dez is not the first player expelled, and I can't recall an instance that a player was given a waiver. With Fairleigh Dickinson on my mind, Lloyd Price did not receive a waiver when we kicked him out.
I think this is the NCAA living up to its word of reviewing each case indvidually on its own merits

I thought this would be a slam dunk, but I can't seem to find any. Jeremiah Masoli was the first major case that came to mind because I thought he had been expelled from Oregon. He was, but he was also allowed to graduate. I guess.

I thought I remembered cases where players were discharged from the service academies, or places like the Citadel and VMI and were allowed to play right away at their new school, but I have to be honest and just say that is an impression that I'm under. When I searched for it, i couldn't find one.

It made sense to me. A player must sit a year if they transfer, but in this case, the player did not seek a transfer and his reasons for leaving were not his choice, and completely unrelated to athletics. Also, when a player is kicked off a team, he is not necessarily kicked out of school. If it becomes impossible for a player to not just rejoin the team, but to return to the institution at all, I thought the NCAA accounted for that so long as the player didn't break any NCAA rules.

So, long story short, I thought Wells would get it, he did get it, but the reasons I thought he would get it are reasons that I am unable to substantiate. I guess I'm not as smart as I thought I was.

[vee4xu]

Some among us has some of the info surrounding Dez, but I am totally confident that none among us has all of the information around Dez. That is except XU. Apparently, the university has what they think is good reasoning to have handled Dez's situation as they did. We don't know if there were other non-published incidents involving Dez. We don't know if he was warned in the past that his next issue would be his last chance. What we do know is that none of the three starters involved in the Shootout matter are no longer at XU. Each for different reasons being graduation, transfer and expulsion. I am neither going to support or condemn Dez, but am going to say I trust that Dez had every bit as much to do with Dez being in MD as X had to do with it. I will leave it by wishing the young man all the best at MD as a basketball player but equally as a person.

[DC Muskie]

Something is not adding up and it all points to Xavier.

I'm curious, what needs to be added up for you?

Xavier kicked him out. Maryland decided based on the prosecution's comment, to take him. He files an appeal to play. NCAA denies it first, then weeks later reverse that appeal.

And somehow all of this points to Xavier?

Huh?

What does the NCAA reversing itself in a unprecedented manner reflect in any way how Xavier handling this situation? Is the NCAA going to intervene if a player gets kicked off the team because he doesn't like to run laps, or misses curfew and gets kicked out like they did at UCLA? What if a kid gets railroaded out like at SMU? Did they get a wavier because Jerry Brown didn't want to coach them?

Personally, I'm tired of the Dez talk. I understand why people want to talk about it, but for me, I'm done with it. I don't know Dez from most of you, but I wished none of this happened. The entire thing ended up being a minor blip in his life really, because now he gets to play. Just like what MH says, there really wasn't any penalty to being kicked out. Xavier fans can complain for obvious reasons that their enjoyment of this season is lessened. But Dez's life is fine. He's playing. Personally I can't wait till he graduates so people will move the f on.

[blueblob06]

Did Wells take down his Twitter acount? Maybe he was getting over-run by trash-talking UK fans with the MD/UK game being tomorrow night in Brooklyn.

Here's an article about how Wells' mom kept him motivated during the appeal process:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2012/11/08/dez-wellss-mother-kept-him-motivated-through-ncaa-appeals-process/

[MHettel]

And the next kid that does something really stupid at some school and is faced with some sort of probabtion or warning along with a suspension from the team will now appeal to the school to just expell him. Because that's not actually any penalty at all.

If Wells somehow was retained by XU, he probably faces SOME kind of discipline, right? Miss 5 games or something.

Absoultely fuking ridiculous.

[DC Muskie]

I like how Dez Wells is somehow turning into Brian Banks. That was someone to feel sorry and outrage for. That guy actually had consequences that were out of his hands. I guess if Xavier really wanted to punish him they should have suspended him for half the season. But now he just gets to keep playing.

There's so many stupid articles about this entire fiasco. Articles about people crying over the news that he does in fact get to play. This is from people who are supposedly grounded and humbled.

Ugh. Enough. Good luck Dez.

[GoMuskies]

I get the feeling that DC does not agree that Wells should get to play this year despite the fact that he was screwed over by Xavier.

[xubrew]

Well, I don't think it is a common enough occurance to really get all that upset about, but I suppose the next time a player is kicked out of school, and a grand jury decides not to file charges, and a prosecutor goes out of his way to declare him innocent, and he enrolls at a new school, and files an appeal....he may get it. A precedent has been set.

[GoMuskies]

Well, I don't think it is a common enough occurance to really get all that upset about, but I suppose the next time a player is kicked out of school, and a grand jury decides not to file charges, and a prosecutor goes out of his way to declare him innocent, and he enrolls at a new school, and files an appeal....he may get it. A precedent has been set.

Will likely be a daily occurrence going forward (yes paul, I said "going forward").

[Xman95]

And the next kid that does something really stupid at some school and is faced with some sort of probabtion or warning along with a suspension from the team will now appeal to the school to just expell him. Because that's not actually any penalty at all.

If Wells somehow was retained by XU, he probably faces SOME kind of discipline, right? Miss 5 games or something.

Absoultely fuking ridiculous.

If the next kid does something than warrants a punishment, then the guess is that the NCAA will force him to sit. However, if the kid didn't deserve punishment (as in the case of Dez Wells), hopefully the NCAA realizes it and comes to the same conclusion. Look, it's pretty much been shown that Xavier overreacted to this thing (big shock, I know). Why should that result in a punishment for Dez?

[DC Muskie]

I get the feeling that DC does not agree that Wells should get to play this year despite the fact that he was screwed over by Xavier.

I have a hard time believing a group made up of staff, faculty and students would want to screw over a kid who seems to be beloved by everyone. You would think the kid the Mother Freaking Teresa because he writes nice things on Twitter. However a group of 12-20 people (I don't know the exact number) conspired to throw this kid out of school for no apparent reason. Then on top of that, no one from the administration could intervene in the miscarriage of justice.

I think it's not the NCAA job to decide whether or not a kid got screwed over by a school. kids get screwed by coaches and school alike, I'm not sure why getting thrown out of school is a special reason.

[GoMuskies]

I have a hard time believing a group made up of staff, faculty and students would want to screw over a kid who seems to be beloved by everyone. You would think the kid the Mother Freaking Teresa because he writes nice things on Twitter. However a group of 12-20 people (I don't know the exact number) conspired to throw this kid out of school for no apparent reason. Then on top of that, no one from the administration could intervene in the miscarriage of justice.

I think it's not the NCAA job to decide whether or not a kid got screwed over by a school. kids get screwed by coaches and school alike, I'm not sure why getting thrown out of school is a special reason.

I've never seen the NCAA take this step before. Gives quite a bit of ammo to the "screwed over" theory, methinks.

[Masterofreality]

I've never seen the NCAA take this step before. Gives quite a bit of ammo to the "screwed over" theory, methinks.

Well, if Xavier actually helped Maryland on the appeal, what is your opinion then?

How about this? Dez Wells did a very stupid thing that was a clear violation of the Xavier Code of Conduct and the penalty of expulsion was warranted and mandatory. While it did not meet a criminal level, it was serious as to it's content. Maryland accepts said Dez then petitions the NCAA. Xavier, because it was an internal violation that did not violate NCAA nor criminal law, goes to bat for the kid on an external basis to help him move on.

Actually sounds pretty damn noble to me.

[vee4xu]

Without ALL of the facts the screwed over theory is total presumption and opinion. Like anything else hearing only one side of the story means that the whole story has not been told. So whatever any of us believes about Dez's situation it is simply conjecture based on half the facts. That being said we are entitled to those opinions.

[SM#24]

I just do not see the NCAA granting a waiver if he indeed violated a rule serious enough to result in expulsion; even if Fr. Graham himself called the NCAA and said, "yes he violated a rule here, but deep down he's a really good kid"

[DC Muskie]

I just do not see the NCAA granting a waiver if he indeed violated a rule serious enough to result in expulsion; even if Fr. Graham himself called the NCAA and said, "yes he violated a rule here, but deep down he's a really good kid"

This is my entire point...the NCAA is now going to determine if the ultimate punishment it can give to an athlete is really serious?

You are basically saying that Graham and the entire school are idiots. Nothing new about that opinion, but please don't say the NCAA is some moral hero rescuing Dez.

[paulxu]

Will likely be a daily occurrence going forward (yes paul, I said "going forward").

Why is it that on this topic and a few others we seem keep going backward?

[GoMuskies]

Well, if Xavier actually helped Maryland on the appeal, what is your opinion then?


At some point someone in the admin wised up and realized they looked like total morans, perhaps?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F8SgagbcH6g/TnMyanVVVvI/AAAAAAAAARo/fwjLi1tA9_M/s1600/morans2.jpg

[GIMMFD]

at some point someone in the admin wised up and realized they looked like total morans, perhaps?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f8sgagbch6g/tnmyanvvvvi/aaaaaaaaaro/fwjli1ta9_m/s1600/morans2.jpg

murrica. Make it nasty.

[chico]

All I know is after this whole ordeal I can never watch Patriot Games (http://www.hark.com/clips/qmqvtklfxg-youre-not-going-to-make-me-wear-a-rubber-are-you) again.

[gladdenguy]

Great line tonight for Dez
15 pts, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks

[gladdenguy]

Dezmine Wells leads Maryland in route of Northwestern. 23 points. Keep it up Dez!!! You da man

[MD Muskie]

I don't remember who the espn announcers were last night but they clearly made a backhanded slap to the face comment about Xavier and the A10. Basically said Xavier and the league were never good enough for Dez and that his talents were always best suited for the Big 4 (yes I am calling them the Big 4 now). It came off that we were just lucky to have recruited him, and that his talents would have been mismanaged in this A10.

Just kept thinking what the F are these announcers talking about? Once again sipping the kool-aid of ESPN and the BIg 4 have to be better than anyone else. Bet if this story involved Gonzaga they would have never said anything.

[SM#24]

In a somewhat similar situation, Missouri guard Michael Dixon:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/nov/24/suspended-guard-dixon-defends-himself-twitter/

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/27/3936996/police-report-says-mus-dixon-accused.html

[RealDeal]

I don't remember who the espn announcers were last night but they clearly made a backhanded slap to the face comment about Xavier and the A10. Basically said Xavier and the league were never good enough for Dez and that his talents were always best suited for the Big 4 (yes I am calling them the Big 4 now). It came off that we were just lucky to have recruited him, and that his talents would have been mismanaged in this A10.

Just kept thinking what the F are these announcers talking about? Once again sipping the kool-aid of ESPN and the BIg 4 have to be better than anyone else. Bet if this story involved Gonzaga they would have never said anything.

We can call that the Chris Wright factor.

[xu95]

I hope Dez does good against Purdue this Saturday. Oh wait, he doesn't play for Xavier anymore.

[DC Muskie]

In a somewhat similar situation, Missouri guard Michael Dixon:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/nov/24/suspended-guard-dixon-defends-himself-twitter/

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/27/3936996/police-report-says-mus-dixon-accused.html

After reading both articles I think one thing is perfectly clear.

Twitter will be the end of civilization.

[gladdenguy]

I don't remember who the espn announcers were last night but they clearly made a backhanded slap to the face comment about Xavier and the A10. Basically said Xavier and the league were never good enough for Dez and that his talents were always best suited for the Big 4 (yes I am calling them the Big 4 now). It came off that we were just lucky to have recruited him, and that his talents would have been mismanaged in this A10.

Just kept thinking what the F are these announcers talking about? Once again sipping the kool-aid of ESPN and the BIg 4 have to be better than anyone else. Bet if this story involved Gonzaga they would have never said anything.

Xavier has nobody to blame but themselves. I sure as hell don't feel sorry for them. F$*k over a good kid like Dez, and I hope they pay with comments like these for a long time.

[waggy]

Xavier has nobody to blame but themselves. I sure as hell don't feel sorry for them. F$*k over a good kid like Dez, and I hope they pay with comments like these for a long time.

Get some new material. Dez didn't need an RA, he should've just called you...

[gladdenguy]

Get some new material. Dez didn't need an RA, he should've just called you...

You are such a tool.

Its funny because you get so defended because you know Xavier dropped the ball. It pisses you off so much you have to respond to everything I say. Either that or you're obsessed with me. I will just keep it at....you're a tool.

If you're sick of it don't open the Dez Wells thread dumba$$.

[waggy]

Dez wasn't injured in the least. He's in a better conference. He didn't have to even sit a year. How was hurt? How was he ultimately screwed over?

Dez Wells is fine. YOU are the one that's butt hurt.

[DC Muskie]

Waggy put him on ignore. Trust me you'll enjoy this board much better rather then reading how a "fan" hopes Xavier fails.

[XU 87]

Xavier has nobody to blame but themselves. I sure as hell don't feel sorry for them. F$*k over a good kid like Dez, and I hope they pay with comments like these for a long time.

What do you mean by this comment that "you hope Xavier pays for a long time"? Do you want the program to suck for the next few years as punishment? Or do you want some other form of punishment such as enrollment going down or that people stop donating? What do you mean by this?

[gladdenguy]

What do you mean by this comment that "you hope Xavier pays for a long time"? Do you want the program to suck for the next few years as punishment? Do you want enrollment to go down or that people stop donating? What do you mean by this?

No, not that I want Xavier to suck or that people will stop donating. Mack and the players don't deserve that. But as an institution and for the administration and the "board" who made the decision, they deserve public comments such as the one heard last night and every other one in the future as Dez Wells becomes more of a star and an NBA player.

[waggy]

.. as Dez Wells becomes more of a star and an NBA player.

So you think Dez's future is bright?

[XU 87]

No, not that I want Xavier to suck or that people will stop donating. Mack and the players don't deserve that. But as an institution and for the administration and the "board" who made the decision, they deserve public comments such as the one heard last night and every other one in the future as Dez Wells becomes more of a star and an NBA player.

They made disparaging comments about Xavier. That's not good for the school, or more importantly to you, it's not good for the basketball program.

I realize you're still pissed about the Dez situation. I am too. But it's over. He's gone and he's not coming back. At some point we need to move on.

[gladdenguy]

They made disparaging comments about Xavier. That's not good for the school, or more importantly to you, it's not good for the basketball program.

I realize you're still pissed about the Dez situation. I am too. But it's over. He's gone and he's not coming back. At some point we need to move on.

At some point I will move on. Not anytime soon. I don't care if every other person on this board wants to move on. Great....move on. Don't open the Dez Wells thread.

Muskie and American X told me to keep it in the Dez Wells thread. I've done that. Waggy, sorry it sickens you even more than me. Breathe in and out in between your daily penis sucking sessions.

[XU 87]

What does the NCAA reversing itself in a unprecedented manner reflect in any way how Xavier handling this situation?

The entire thing ended up being a minor blip in his life really, because now he gets to play.

It tells me that the NCAA thinks Dez got hosed and should never have been expelled. It tells me that the NCAA thinks Xavier mishandled the situation.

And I bet if you asked Dez, he would tell you that getting expelled from a school and team that he loved for alleged sexual transgressions was not "a minor blip" in his life.

Now, I just told Gladden to move on. I will as well. I think.

[DC Muskie]

It tells me that the NCAA thinks Dez got hosed and should never have been expelled. It tells me that the NCAA thinks Xavier mishandled the situation.

And I bet if you asked Dez, he would tell you that getting expelled from a school and team that he loved for alleged sexual transgressions was not "a minor blip" in his life.

Now, I just told Gladden to move on. I will as well. I think.

Why did bring this up? I don't want to get into this.

Dez is fine. His reputation is intact and his need to keep playing at a place he wants at a high level didn't change.

And the NCAA's decision means nothing in regards to the way Xavier handled the case.

I hope you can move on. I certainly have. Even as a minor Terp fan I could care less how Dez does. I certainly don't wish him ill, but I certainly am not going to keep updating people here on what he is doing.

[XU 87]

Gladdenguy has been banned. I never thought that the Wells' situation would have lead to the end of GG's promising posting career.

Free Gladdenguy. Free Gladdenguy.

[waggy]

It's only 7 days. Maybe.

[bleedXblue]

I just ask what good any of this does ?

All it does is give the bitchers and moaners something to bitch and moan about.

X handles their program beautifully for some 30 plus years and they get caught up in a no win situation and the bitchers and moaners seize the opportunity.

You consider yourself a fan of the program, yet cast stones at the very institution that you supposedly support and love.

I dont get it.

What do you do when a family member fu*&ks up ? A friend ? A co-worker ? Do you turn your back on them ? I think many of us probably know the answer.

It's pathetic. Really pathetic.

[Cincypunk.org]

Jay Canty is averaging 17 pts a game for Appalachian State.

So, there is that...

[XU 87]

I will never understand what the X staff saw in Jay Canty, a 6'5" forward who didn't shoot nor handle the ball well.

But it is interesting when guys who aren't good enough to play at X have pretty good careers at smaller programs. I remember Leo Murray, who I didn't think could play at all, leaving after one year and then going to some directional school and averaging double digits in points.

[GoMuskies]

Leo played at East Tennessee State, who used to have a pretty good SoCon program. Aop State lost to Duquesne, so Canty's obviously not on a good team.

[paulxu]

Sometimes enough is really...enough.

Enough already of:

~ Wondering if Dez Wells did or did not get a fair shake
~ Thinking that the adminstration of my university doesn't really care about our basketball program

As this is a message board, it is perfectly fine for anyone to believe, defend and discuss any and all of these items; and more.
And in the middle of all of it, would someone please show me the door?

Somehow I wandered back into this same room. It's like Alice going down the rabbit hole.

[GoMuskies]

I find it very easy to believe that my alma mater is far from perfect yet still support them.

[Muskie in dayton]

Gladdenguy has been banned. I never thought that the Wells' situation would have lead to the end of GG's promising posting career.

Free Gladdenguy. Free Gladdenguy.



Keep him out forever. With "fans" like him, who needs UD alumni?

[xu95]

But at the same time you don't claim to support them and then bitch about everything they do.

[vee4xu]

This whole Dez situation has to stop. There is so much to this story, but the bottom line is that Dez is gone, X is 5-1 with a young, promising freshman player growing each game who likely will make everyone forget Dez. It's sad that some folks hold onto so much hostility. May I suggest that those of you do begin doing what is listed in my signature. It's emancipating.

[ballyhoohoo]

This whole Dez situation has to stop. There is so much to this story, but the bottom line is that Dez is gone, X is 5-1 with a young, promising freshman player growing each game who likely will make everyone forget Dez. It's sad that some folks hold onto so much hostility. May I suggest that those of you do begin doing what is listed in my signature. It's emancipating.

I heard from a friends sisters ex's cousin that they saw him at 31 flavored with Johnny Wolfe.

[nuts4xu]

Gladdenguy is strong in his opinions, but has a love for Xavier as big as anyone I've ever met. Don't know what got him banned, but I fully endorse his reinstatement.

FREE GLADDENGUY!!

[rove02]

What do you do when a family member fu*&ks up ? A friend ? A co-worker ? Do you turn your back on them ? I think many of us probably know the answer.



Should have told this to Xavier.

[X-band '01]

There's nothing wrong with posting what Wells is doing at Maryland - it's not cool to be asking posters on the board to be performing physically impossible acts upon themselves when other posts are refuted, however.

[ballyhoohoo]

There's nothing wrong with posting what Wells is doing at Maryland - it's not cool to be asking posters on the board to be performing physically impossible acts upon themselves when other posts are refuted, however.

Are you referencing procreation with one's self?

[SM#24]

Gladdenguy is strong in his opinions, but has a love for Xavier as big as anyone I've ever met. Don't know what got him banned, but I fully endorse his reinstatement.

FREE GLADDENGUY!!

I imagine it had to with his breathing exercise suggestion to a SENIOR moderator

[SM#24]

This whole Dez situation has to stop. There is so much to this story, but the bottom line is that Dez is gone, X is 5-1 with a young, promising freshman player growing each game who likely will make everyone forget Dez. It's sad that some folks hold onto so much hostility. May I suggest that those of you do begin doing what is listed in my signature. It's emancipating.

All it makes me do is think how much better we could have been with Semaj and Dez on the same teams for the next 2-3 years.

For all of you that have "moved on", there's plenty of you that keep reading a Dez Wells thread.

I, for one, will never forget about Dez or what I imagine could have been or IMO how poorly Xavier acted and failed Dez. That said, I continue to support the team, players, coaches, school, etc. no different than I have for the past 30+ years. I just believe that there is some faction in administration that may not be on the same page I am when it comes to the basketall program and how it relates to the overall university mission. Do I wish ill will upon those people or the school ? No, I just wish those people would just leave or change their attitudes.

No different than if that day I pray never comes that, God forbid, we hire a shitty coach and our program starts sucking for a while; I'll continue to support my alma mater and the team and players, but hope that the coach is replaced. Or maybe I should just "move on" and accept that we would have a shitty coach.

[DC Muskie]

For all of you that have "moved on", there's plenty of you that keep reading a Dez Wells thread.

People can post whatever they want. More power to them if they want to post the stat line of Dez for the rest of his career. It's not going to change me from opening up a thread or thinking whatever I want.

But really this sentence makes me sad for Xavier fans that feel this way.


All it makes me do is think how much better we could have been with Semaj and Dez on the same teams for the next 2-3 years.

I'll never understand what good it does to the psyche to think this. Of course the unknown is always better. Especially when you project it out for 2-3 years.

We could have done this.
We could have done that.
We could have been this.

On and on and on, with really no end in sight.

For what purpose exactly?

That's what I don't get. You and many others continue to think that the attitude of the administration is bringing down the school entirely based on one player one year getting kicked out. When there is absolutely, positively no evidence of anything such thing. We are off to a good start, we haven't entered the meat of non conference schedule, let alone the slate of our A10 foes.

Dez is gone. Feel bad about it, feel frustration over what might have been. Do whatever it is you want, no one is stopping you.

For me, I look forward to seeing what the team does, and how we move forward before I start thinking we need certain people to change certain attitudes or just leave. Right now as of this moment, one kid is gone and Dez and his time here is by no means the single most important thing ever to happen to Xavier good or bad.

[GoMuskies]

For what purpose exactly?


Why do we do anything on this board? It's interesting (to some obviously even if not to you), and it helps us get through the workday with sanity intact (somewhat).

[DC Muskie]

Why do we do anything on this board? It's interesting (to some obviously even if not to you), and it helps us get through the workday with sanity intact (somewhat).

It's interesting to think about what could have been?

Okay.

Maybe I'm too much of Cleveland and Washington fan to waste time being interested about what a Dez and Semaj led team would look like.

I'd rather waste time on other wasteful things.

[paulxu]

Maybe I'm too much of Cleveland and Washington fan to waste time being interested about what a Dez and Semaj led team would look like.

I'd rather waste time on other wasteful things.

Take heart! Jordan Crawford was high scorer in the Wizard's first win of the season.
Just think what we could have done if he'd have stayed another 2 years.

[GoMuskies]

Take heart! Jordan Crawford was high scorer in the Wizard's first win of the season.
Just think what we could have done if he'd have stayed another 2 years.

We'd still be screwed. Think of the team Kentucky would have!

[nuts4xu]

It's interesting to think about what could have been?



I don't know how a Xavier fan can not at least consider what this team would look like with Dez Wells in the starting lineup. It isn't all I think about, and this team has played very well without Dez. You add his skill set to this mix of players, and it is easy to think they would be an even better team.

It seems very natural to think "what could have been", even though we are in the middle of a season. When James Posey, Derrick Brown, and Jordan Crawford left with eligibility left, the thought of "what could have been" went through my mind as well.

Not that it makes a difference, because these players have all moved on, and Xavier has survived without these men on campus. We will have a fine season with or without Dez Wells.

Are you telling me you didn't for one second wonder what it would be like if the Nationals would have allowed Strausburg to finish the year? They still made the playoffs, but you have to think they would have fared better against the Cards with him in the rotation.

[DC Muskie]

Are you telling me you didn't for one second wonder what it would be like if the Nationals would have allowed Strausburg to finish the year? They still made the playoffs, but you have to think they would have fared better against the Cards with him in the rotation.

Nope. It might be weird, but I just don't think that way. Plus with Stras, the person who replaced him in the rotation won, so the point was moot anyway.

My fantasies are about women and scotch. Or a woman drinking scotch. Or me with a scotch and pouring it over lots of women. Whatever.

Sorry I just don't see the point of people wondering what they could have. To me it takes away from what you do. I have no women or scotch at this moment, but I can think of them and try to get one or both later. Which I totally can by the way.

We ain't ever getting back the time with Dez, or future time with him and anyone else who is on the team now or who could be on the team later. I don't worry about what might have happened with the '99 team with a healthy Williams, I'm still pissed we didn't make the dance that year in spite of it.

I'll never see the point of people coming here and telling each other what Dez did for another team and having 4,000 people rehash the same crap about how the program is sinking, blah, blah blah.

I know that won't change, but neither will my thinking on the subject.

[nuts4xu]

My fantasies are about women and scotch. Or a woman drinking scotch. Or....

...a world where the Dez Wells fight was handled better.

[nuts4xu]

Sorry I just don't see the point of people wondering what they could have.

But you see a great point in wondering why people over reacted to a fight that happened to Dez Wells over a year ago.

Ok. That makes complete sense.

[smileyy]

When James Posey, Derrick Brown, and Jordan Crawford left with eligibility left, the thought of "what could have been" went through my mind as well.


This is pedantic, but Posey didn't have eligibility left. He was ineligible his first year, and only retained 3 years of eligibility.

[DC Muskie]

But you see a great point in wondering why people over reacted to a fight that happened to Dez Wells over a year ago.

Ok. That makes complete sense.

I don't see the connection. Lamenting would could have been is the same as overreacting to a certain event?

[XU 87]

This is pedantic, but Posey didn't have eligibility left.

I think your post is also donnish.

[boozehound]

I find it very easy to believe that my alma mater is far from perfect yet still support them.

This is where I am with the whole situation as well.

I think that Xavier handled the situation with Dez very poorly. I think that probably the bigger issue was the multiple sexual assault allegations that Luther Smith and Kathleen Simons handled exceptionally poorly which ultimately led to Xavier feeling that they had to react strongly to the allegations against Dez. Those guys both deserve to be beaten within inches of their lives.

However, I still support the University as a whole and I definitely support the team. The education I received at Xavier has served me well and I have had a lot of great times watching the basketball team. I expect both of those things to continue to have a positive impact on my life and I will continue to be proud to be a Musketeer.

On a positive note, since their parting ways it seems that both the University and Dez have handled the situation very well. Dez has had nothing bad to say about Xavier and Xavier very likely may have contributed to his being cleared to play immediately at Maryland. I wish Dez nothing but the best and I will (somewhat) follow his career at Maryland. It's time to move on though.

Go Muskies!

[LadyMuskie]

I don't know how a Xavier fan can not at least consider what this team would look like with Dez Wells in the starting lineup. It isn't all I think about, and this team has played very well without Dez. You add his skill set to this mix of players, and it is easy to think they would be an even better team.



I understand your point, and you're probably correct. However, you could also argue that the team wouldn't be playing as well had Dez been on the team. Team chemistry may have been wildly different and not having Dez here has given this group of men a chip on their collective shoulder forcing them to play better together than they might have otherwise. If we start talking in "what ifs" and "what could have beens" all the time, there's no end in sight. What if Dez had stayed, but gotten a career ending injury again FDU? What if Dez had stayed, and some terrible personal tragedy caused him to lose focus and he went scoreless for 10 games? What if Dez had stayed and we sucked anyway? What if Dez had stayed and Semaj got seriously injured? There are about 10,000 scenarios that could play out for any one situation. So what's the point? Where does it end? There is absolutely no way to say that IF someone had been playing then the outcome would be positively different. It's like saying if one person had been elected president, event XYZ never would have happened. Unless you're Nostradamus you can't predict these things, so why keep bemoaning the loss of someone - particularly when your own team is doing well.

And, I think there's a difference between lamenting what could have been and taking aim at the University every chance you get because, for some reason, you're still exhibiting an unhealthy and unusual sense of anguish over something that didn't have any personal effect on you one way or the other. Dez Wells is doing fine at Maryland and compared to some people posting around here, he certainly has a better mental health outlook. If people want to follow Dez's career and wish him well and be a fan of his, then more power to them. I have no problem with that. However, don't simultaneously take shots at Xavier while claiming to be this great fan whose just so misunderstood. I know a lot of great Xavier fans, and many of them (myself included) aren't always, 100% happy with Xavier Basketball or Xavier University, but they also don't have to be defended as great fans. They don't belittle the school so much that others have to come to their defense about what a great fan they really are despite the posts they make, KWIM.

I wish Dez well. I hope he finds success at Maryland, but I will always hope that that success is slightly less than any success anyone is having at X.

[LadyMuskie]

This is where I am with the whole situation as well.

I think that Xavier handled the situation with Dez very poorly. I think that probably the bigger issue was the multiple sexual assault allegations that Luther Smith and Kathleen Simons handled exceptionally poorly which ultimately led to Xavier feeling that they had to react strongly to the allegations against Dez. Those guys both deserve to be beaten within inches of their lives.

However, I still support the University as a whole and I definitely support the team. The education I received at Xavier has served me well and I have had a lot of great times watching the basketball team. I expect both of those things to continue to have a positive impact on my life and I will continue to be proud to be a Musketeer.

On a positive note, since their parting ways it seems that both the University and Dez have handled the situation very well. Dez has had nothing bad to say about Xavier and Xavier very likely may have contributed to his being cleared to play immediately at Maryland. I wish Dez nothing but the best and I will (somewhat) follow his career at Maryland. It's time to move on though.

Go Muskies!

Very nicely said!

[Masterofreality]

These are my last comments on this thread.

I'm happy that Dez has found a home and is playing well. I won't make a special effort to watch, however.

If Dez was still here, Justin Martin would not be developing as he is. JMart is playing great D and has scored 12 and 13 points respectively in the past two games. I love the team first attitude he's displaying.

Good luck Dez, and GO JMart! That is all.

[DC Muskie]

It's always great to read finality on Dez. Until next Sunday when Maryland plays George Mason and we start all over again.

[SM#24]

It's always great to read finality on Dez. Until next Sunday when Maryland plays George Mason and we start all over again.

Dez went for 25p/6r...just saying

Excerpts from the game CBS game story:
Four months after being expelled from Xavier, Dez Wells is starting to flourish at his new basketball home. Wells scored a career-high 25 points Sunday, highlighting a bizarre statistical day for Maryland in a 69-62 win over suburban rival George Mason in the BB&T Classic.

"Probably the happiest I've been in my life," said Wells, who accounted for half of Maryland's 22 field goals. "Xavier's a great place - I have nothing bad to say about those guys, but I wouldn't rather be anywhere but Maryland right now."

A standout freshman at Xavier last season, Wells was kicked out of the school in August for violating the school's code of student conduct. A week later, a grand jury has rejected proposed criminal charges of sexual assault against him, but the school declined to take him back.

He's now at Maryland, where he has scored 23 and 25 points in back-to-back games.

"He's just feeling more comfortable," Maryland coach Mark Turgeon said. "A week ago, against Georgia Southern he was about as bad as he could be, and he just kind of flipped the switch and got real aggressive. ... He's a smart player. He asks a lot of questions. He asks too many questions sometimes, but he wants to be good."

Turgeon also joked that Wells is on pace to set a record for turnovers. Wells committed five Sunday, giving him 13 in three games.

"It's going to come as we learn each other a lot more," Wells said. "I've only been there two months with these guys, so we have a lot of learning to do."

Wells also got some encouraging words from former high school teammate John Wall, who was in the building for a practice with the Washington Wizards.

"He was one of the guys who really helped me when I went through the situation this summer," Wells said. "He told me to keep my head high, and God's going to make the way."

[DC Muskie]

Dez went for 25p/6r...just saying

Excerpts from the game CBS game story:
Four months after being expelled from Xavier, Dez Wells is starting to flourish at his new basketball home. Wells scored a career-high 25 points Sunday, highlighting a bizarre statistical day for Maryland in a 69-62 win over suburban rival George Mason in the BB&T Classic.

"Probably the happiest I've been in my life," said Wells, who accounted for half of Maryland's 22 field goals. "Xavier's a great place - I have nothing bad to say about those guys, but I wouldn't rather be anywhere but Maryland right now."

A standout freshman at Xavier last season, Wells was kicked out of the school in August for violating the school's code of student conduct. A week later, a grand jury has rejected proposed criminal charges of sexual assault against him, but the school declined to take him back.

He's now at Maryland, where he has scored 23 and 25 points in back-to-back games.

"He's just feeling more comfortable," Maryland coach Mark Turgeon said. "A week ago, against Georgia Southern he was about as bad as he could be, and he just kind of flipped the switch and got real aggressive. ... He's a smart player. He asks a lot of questions. He asks too many questions sometimes, but he wants to be good."

Turgeon also joked that Wells is on pace to set a record for turnovers. Wells committed five Sunday, giving him 13 in three games.

"It's going to come as we learn each other a lot more," Wells said. "I've only been there two months with these guys, so we have a lot of learning to do."

Wells also got some encouraging words from former high school teammate John Wall, who was in the building for a practice with the Washington Wizards.

"He was one of the guys who really helped me when I went through the situation this summer," Wells said. "He told me to keep my head high, and God's going to make the way."

Yeah I read that on the train this morning in the Express with a picture of him driving to the basket. Good for Dez. Nice win for the Terps in what it likely going to be their last appearance in the BBT classic, which is too bad.

[xubrew]

Yeah I read that on the train this morning in the Express with a picture of him driving to the basket. Good for Dez. Nice win for the Terps in what it likely going to be their last appearance in the BBT classic, which is too bad.

For those of us that aren't paying attention, why is Maryland not going to play in the BB&T Classic anymore?? It's probably got something to do with Georgetown.

I always liked the concept of that event. I also always liked the event itself. If Maryland is taking themselves out of it, I agree. It is too bad.

[DC Muskie]

For those of us that aren't paying attention, why is Maryland not going to play in the BB&T Classic anymore?? It's probably got something to do with Georgetown.

I always liked the concept of that event. I also always liked the event itself. If Maryland is taking themselves out of it, I agree. It is too bad.

By responding to this I threaten to veer this discussion off topic.

Basically Gary's not there anymore and this is John Feinstein's event. Georgetown is never going to participate, let alone play Maryland, especially since the edict out of College Park eliminating the Terps from playing Georgetown in any sports, until they agree to a basketball series.

It's sad all around. Now it will be a GW/George Mason/American/Navy event with lower national programs coming in to play.

[PMI]

I think Gary Williams will be coaching a game at the Verizon Center before Maryland plays in the BB&T again. Coaching the Wizards that is...

As for Dez, he had a relatively quiet night last night against Eastern Shore, but that was mostly because Turgeon was playing the water boys for extended minutes in that blowout. I've been impressed with Dez's shot selection after the first couple games. He's been staying aggressive without forcing the issue. I know Turgeon has been frustrated with his turnovers this year though. Maryland is very solid and could be a contender. The thing they really lack is consistent outside shooting amongst their top rotation players, but they can slash and Alex Len is a lottery pick. The Terps will be tough come March.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

In case anyone is interested, the game against NC State is on ESPN2.

[GoMuskies]

Too late for Dezmine, obviously, but sanity is prevailing.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/25/education-department-releases-interim-directions-title-ix-compliance

[Masterofreality]

Too late for Dezmine, obviously, but sanity is prevailing.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/25/education-department-releases-interim-directions-title-ix-compliance

Yeah, but Betsy DeVos is EVIL....according to the Liberals. They hate every fiber of her being.

[smileyy]

Are we really here cheering for sexual assault?

[GoMuskies]

Are we really here cheering for sexual assault?

Go Sexual Assault!!!!! Woo hoo!!!!

Personally, I'm cheering the end of kangaroo courts required by the federal government on our college campuses.

[smileyy]

I'm a little sad that we're moving deeper into the "Some kinds of sexual assault are okay" territory, rather than towards "Sexual assault is never okay" :(

[GoMuskies]

I'm a little sad that we're moving deeper into the "Some kinds of sexual assault are okay" territory, rather than towards "Sexual assault is never okay" :(

You'll be relieved to learn that's not what we're doing.

[Masterofreality]

You'll be relieved to learn that's not what we're doing.

How about an idea called "Due Process"?

[XUGRAD80]

How about an idea called "Due Process"?


You mean innocent until PROVEN guilty? What a novel concept!

[Juice]

Yeah, but Betsy DeVos is EVIL....according to the Liberals. They hate every fiber of her being.

What the won't acknowledge is that young men of color disproportionately suffered under these crazy ass rules and court hearing held at universities.

[Juice]

How about an idea called "Due Process"?

And the fact that maybe school administrators are so poorly equipped to handle this shit. A lot of actual judges I've practiced in front of are barely equipped to oversee a rape/sexual assault trial that in no way would I ever trust someone from a college to figure it out.

[Juice]

And the fact that maybe school administrators are so poorly equipped to handle this shit. A lot of actual judges I've practiced in front of are barely equipped to oversee a rape/sexual assault trial that in no way would I ever trust someone from a college to figure it out.

And a federal court agreed that these university hearings are bullshit http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2017/09/25/appeals-court-agrees-university-cincinnati-cant-suspend-male-student-accused-sexual-assault/701261001/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[xeus]

And a federal court agreed that these university hearings are bullshit http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2017/09/25/appeals-court-agrees-university-cincinnati-cant-suspend-male-student-accused-sexual-assault/701261001/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I hope you read the opinion and not just the Enquirer article.

[muskiefan82]

It seems to indicate that if you eliminate everything that might make the proceeding fair and make it more of a judge, jury, executioner style proceeding, then you don't have to follow any rules, but if you do try to make it fair then it becomes a quasi-criminal proceeding and rules start to apply. Very odd to essentially tell a school that if they want to make their own decisions that they should create a kangaroo court instead of a fair one.

[Fireball]

The problem is that so many people don't want a fair trial. They assume that "accused of sexual assault" means "guilty of sexual assault". They don't want due process, they want a pound of flesh. When you get rid of the thing that is producing more pounds of flesh instead of due process, then those people are going to lose their collective minds. Add in the "Betsy DeVos is evil" crowd to it and here we go.

I hope that what this all will give us is a process that is fair to both the accuser and the accused. We'll see.

[Emp]

The problem isn't that DeVos is a radical, though she surely is.

The problem is that she's kaboshed guidelines and left schools dangling. Essentially, "these guidelines aren't fair, but I'm not going to tell you how to fix them to make them fair. ". No standards for due process for accusers. No standards for discovery or the neutrality of th decision makers. That's not leadership.

It's a mirror of the charter school problem: (some) public schools aren't performing, so here are big wads of public money, go experiment, but we won't hold you accountable with any metrics or standards.

[GoMuskies]

An absence of standards is better than the standards previously in place.

[xeus]

Schools have the option, during this transition period, to use the preponderance of the evidence standard OR the clear and convincing standard. Do we know what Xavier plans to do? I know UC is sticking with preponderance of the evidence.