VP Debate

[More Cowbell]

Who Won?

[drudy23]

It was pretty close, but I'd give a slight edge to Ryan. Biden did come across as a goof, but I think Ryan lost points when he could and would not detail his plans when asked about the loopholes and deductibles he would cut. He was dancing around it.

What's interesting to me is that part one of the Romney/Ryan ticket is to become energy independent by the end of the decade. I've really heard no specifics on this, but I think it's something that is needed. I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger debate point, because if they can get gas to $2.00 again, they'd be my heroes.

Also, I can't remember the name of the CEO that sent out that letter to employees basically telling them they may lose their jobs if Obama is re-elected, but it made for some interesting context for me when they were discussing how small businesses are becoming taxed to death....thus, eliminating and prohibiting jobs.

I hear Romney/Ryan on jobs...let's hear more about energy independence.

Medicare/Medicaid is just a big cluster either way you look at it.

[XU 87]

I thought Ryan was a little stiff and boring. And I thought he failed to effectively argue some key points, as Romney did, when given the opportunity. But I thought Biden was acting like an a-hole with all of his interruptions and smirks and laughing. If Biden had acted like an adult, I think he would have or could have won handily. But I think his antics overshadowed anything he had to say.

I don't think this debate will have any affect on the election.

[Pete Delkus]

No doubt Biden brought it. However, what “It” is, seems to be different for each person. I think his passion worked well in some instances, but awful in others. Unfortunately, when your react inelegant on issues that require tact and respect, the rest of your effort can be forgotten.

Here’s the thing…Biden’s antics were scripted by his team all along. I suspect this as me mentions his own “reactions” in the closing statement. It was suppose to be in direct contrast to Prez Obama, who was looking down and gave dismissive smirks.

Biden did the Wilford Brimley act for the seniors, when it came to entitlements.

Paul Ryan showed what a wonk he was, and I’m sure buried his head in the books, crossing his t’s and dotting his I’s on each hot foreign policy issue. I was waiting for Marth Raddatz to ask what Ryan thought of the conflict in the Luang Prabang valley region of Northern Laos.

Love Ryan, thought Biden worked for Biden and Dem fans.

[boozehound]

It was pretty close, but I'd give a slight edge to Ryan. Biden did come across as a goof, but I think Ryan lost points when he could and would not detail his plans when asked about the loopholes and deductibles he would cut. He was dancing around it.

What's interesting to me is that part one of the Romney/Ryan ticket is to become energy independent by the end of the decade. I've really heard no specifics on this, but I think it's something that is needed. I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger debate point, because if they can get gas to $2.00 again, they'd be my heroes.

I hear Romney/Ryan on jobs...let's hear more about energy independence.

Medicare/Medicaid is just a big cluster either way you look at it.

I agree regarding the details. I want to see the details. Frankly, I don't think the math works on a lot of what Ryan and Romney are proposing. I also don't think the math works on what Obama and Biden are proposing. I would like to see proposed budgets for the next 10 years from each candidate specifically outlining what they would like to cut. I could make a decision based on nothing more than that. Right now I feel like we are being hoodwinked by both parties. Everybody is talking about defecit reduction but nobody is showing us exactly how. Do you think Mitt Romney let his department managers get away with that when he was at Bain? "Hey Bob, what does your budget for next year look like?" "I'm going to cut spending, Mitt." "Great, Bob!" End of conversation. That seems unlikely to me.


I thought Ryan was a little stiff and boring. And I thought he failed to effectively argue some key points, as Romney did, when given the opportunity. But I thought Biden was acting like an a-hole with all of his interruptions and smirks and laughing. If Biden had acted like an adult, I think he would have or could have won handily. But I think his antics overshadowed anything he had to say.

I don't think this debate will have any affect on the election.

Biden was definitely acting like an a-hole. I thought both guys were kind of dickish, but Biden was the clear winner.

It was also astoundingly poorly moderated, IMO. I can't recall seeing a more biased moderator. Raddatz was much tougher on Ryan than she was on Biden.

[blueblob06]

Drudy, I'm interested in hearing more about the 10 yr plan for North American energy independence as well. It's kinda odd that both Romney & Ryan have mentioned it but the moderators and media afterward haven't asked about it further (that I have seen at least). I would assume this would involve more drilling in the US and offshore. I'd like to see more solar and wind as well but the way Romney was slamming Obama for investing in solar in the first debate, I'm guessing that is not going to be the case. Very interested to hear more about this plan.

I'd give a slight nod to Biden. They were interrupting each other, sure, but I didn't have a problem with it. This was more of a back-and-forth debate which was entertaining, versus last week which seemed like 2 people talking that happened to be in the same room. I was not a fan of Ryan's repeated "if you aren't a good candidate, you have to chase people away from the other candidate" argument. I feel like he could've been saying good things about their plans instead of wasting time repeatedly saying that Obama/Biden are just trying to scare people away from Romney. Also, why wouldn't Ryan say their plans specifically when asked? They have to have a plan written out. (Right?)

[chico]

Since Centre College is not an option I am not voting, because that was the winner.

[Xman95]

But I thought Biden was acting like an a-hole

Biden is an a-hole.

[American X]

Joe Biden is literally the Democratic Party symbol:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1177/927154422_3eddeae308.jpg

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Biden clearly won last night. Ryan was weak on foreign policy, medicare, and abortion. I agree with the posters that the moderator was biased and some of her questions were terrible including the abortion one and the one asking how their religion would affect their actions as VP.

I jumped up and cheered when Biden finally said 47% (could have been because my Tigers closed out the A's as I watched a taped version of the debate). Should have been Obama but I will take Biden in the end. I had no issue with the moderator grilling Ryan for details of his ticket's plans. I am with other Americans that when I make a decision of this magnitude I at least want a starting point on where those two begin bipartisan negotiations. Their lack of details could lose this election for them.

[American X]

Cesar Romero thinks Biden needs to tone it down:

http://www.moviemarket.com/library/photos/291/291231.jpg

[DC Muskie]

What's interesting to me is that part one of the Romney/Ryan ticket is to become energy independent by the end of the decade. I've really heard no specifics on this, but I think it's something that is needed. I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger debate point, because if they can get gas to $2.00 again, they'd be my heroes.

It will never happen. So I wouldn't worry about the details.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/23/five-things-to-know-about-mitt-romneys-energy-plan/

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Also, I can't remember the name of the CEO that sent out that letter to employees basically telling them they may lose their jobs if Obama is re-elected, but it made for some interesting context for me when they were discussing how small businesses are becoming taxed to death....thus, eliminating and prohibiting jobs.

His name is David Siegel and he is the a-hole who is building the house modeled after Versailles in France. That guy is one of the biggest douche bags in the history of douche bags. He is currently shopping around for a reality show for his insane monument to douche baggery that I am sure you can get well acquainted with him if you desire.

[boozehound]

This debate got me thinking. You know what would be an interesting concept? A 'no attacks' debate. I guess it technically wouldn't be a debate, but I would like to see each candidate give detailed and specific answers to a variety of questions. Just tell me, specifically, what you want to do. You aren't allowed to talk about what the other guy wants to do, or how your plan differs from his plan, just what you specifically would like to do.

I really just want to see the 10 year budget proposals. I don't care about abortions or Libya. I don't care about their religious beliefs. I care about financial stewardship of this country.

[nuts4xu]

You know what would be an interesting concept? A 'no attacks' debate. I guess it technically wouldn't be a debate, but I would like to see each candidate give detailed and specific answers to a variety of questions. Just tell me, specifically, what you want to do. You aren't allowed to talk about what the other guy wants to do, or how your plan differs from his plan, just what you specifically would like to do.

This would be refreshing and something the entire nation wants to hear. The attacks have become the focus in these campaigns in the past dozen years, and no one is saying ANYTHING specific. I want each party to lay out their plans, and what they hope to accomplish. It would make it much easier on the voters who are still undecided.

All the attacks do is cloud the issues and buries what each party plans to do to fix things. It is beyond frustrating to watch people throw cliches and bash each other non stop, rather than to discuss how to change the path our country is on.

[DC Muskie]

This would be refreshing and something the entire nation wants to hear. The attacks have become the focus in these campaigns in the past dozen years, and no one is saying ANYTHING specific. I want each party to lay out their plans, and what they hope to accomplish. It would make it much easier on the voters who are still undecided.

All the attacks do is cloud the issues and buries what each party plans to do to fix things. It is beyond frustrating to watch people throw cliches and bash each other non stop, rather than to discuss how to change the path our country is on.

I hate to fill in everyone here....

This has been going on since the formation of the country. Attack ads work. The entire nation gets what it wants and it wants attacks ads. Sure they might bitch about them but they are highly effective and always have been throughout our history.

The only difference is, there are more of them, because elections are getting more expensive. If you want to complain about the volume of ads, then I'm right there with you, but the content is nothing new and will never change.

[boozehound]

I hate to fill in everyone here....

This has been going on since the formation of the country. Attack ads work. The entire nation gets what it wants and it wants attacks ads. Sure they might bitch about them but they are highly effective and always have been throughout our history.

The only difference is, there are more of them, because elections are getting more expensive. If you want to complain about the volume of ads, then I'm right there with you, but the content is nothing new and will never change.

I hate the "it's always been that way and it's never going to change" argument.

I don't care how long it has been going on, we should demand a higher standard of discourse. Furthermore, we don't have to totally eliminate negative campaigning. I just want one debate where people are forced to explain, and stand on the merit of, their own ideas without resorting to attacks.

[xlax]

I hate the "it's always been that way and it's never going to change" argument.

I don't care how long it has been going on, we should demand a higher standard of discourse. Furthermore, we don't have to totally eliminate negative campaigning. I just want one debate where people are forced to explain, and stand on the merit of, their own ideas without resorting to attacks.

the problem with this is that there are far too many people who blindly support one side. They wouldn't see the value in a debate like that because they already know who they're voting for. Those people love the smear campaign ads and current debate setup because they think it makes the other side look bad. In reality though it makes both sides look ridiculous and turns a lot of people like myself who don't automatically vote for one side off to the entire process.

People who are staunch republicans or democrats don't care to hear the uninterrupted specifics of their appointees plan because they're going to vote him him anyway. They get their jollies from the interruptions and verbal jabs being spewed back and forth.

Just my $0.02

[Snipe]

I think that Biden disqualified himself by acting the buffoon. Not sure where the line was, but he went way over it early and often. I also think it was 2 against 1 with the Moderator on Biden's side. Through it all, Ryan kept his composure. I wouldn't have been able to do that, I would have told Biden to shut the hell up and let me finish a point. Don't know how that would have gone over, and it seems like Biden was baiting Ryan into some sort of reaction.

Funny how Republicans are always called the party of "Angry White Men". Their was one angry old white guy out there last night, and one guy keeping his cool. I think Biden was trying to do too much to make up for Barack's empty chair in the first debate. Overreach.

Win to Paul Ryan. The only state this could have any effect in is Wisconsin. Other than that, VP debates do very little to move the dial.

[DC Muskie]

I hate the "it's always been that way and it's never going to change" argument.

I don't care how long it has been going on, we should demand a higher standard of discourse. Furthermore, we don't have to totally eliminate negative campaigning. I just want one debate where people are forced to explain, and stand on the merit of, their own ideas without resorting to attacks.

I hate that argument too. But unless you have billions of dollars that can actually force the tone, you are up against over 200 years of generations of combative habits.

Ideas do get through, though. I would argue that. Attacks are never ever going away.

[waggy]

..what each party plans to do to fix things.

Ha ha ha. There are no plans.

Not to mention that it's IMPOSSIBLE to balance the budget. It cannot be done. The promises and the debt exceed (or are at least equal to) the incoming taxes.

God a hate those mutherffffarrrrraaaghh!!

[waggy]

The people of the richest country in the world have been fleeced by their own government under the guise that there are all these unresolvable divides between "the sides". You are dumber than dirt if you believe any of this shit. The richest country in the world. In debt to the tune of trillions of dollars. And the average American will have to pay the bill, because it's a government of the people. Your representatives have fucked you over but good. Both sides are scumbags.

[X-band '01]

I think that Biden disqualified himself by acting the buffoon. Not sure where the line was, but he went way over it early and often. I also think it was 2 against 1 with the Moderator on Biden's side. Through it all, Ryan kept his composure. I wouldn't have been able to do that, I would have told Biden to shut the hell up and let me finish a point. Don't know how that would have gone over, and it seems like Biden was baiting Ryan into some sort of reaction.

Funny how Republicans are always called the party of "Angry White Men". Their was one angry old white guy out there last night, and one guy keeping his cool. I think Biden was trying to do too much to make up for Barack's empty chair in the first debate. Overreach.

Win to Paul Ryan. The only state this could have any effect in is Wisconsin. Other than that, VP debates do very little to move the dial.

Wisconsin would be a significant turnover should Romney and Ryan win there. Bush never won there, but he also had states like Ohio, Florida and Virginia in his backpocket.

Still, I doubt that many people will vote one way or another based on the disgrace last night.

[xudash]

I think that Biden disqualified himself by acting the buffoon. Not sure where the line was, but he went way over it early and often. I also think it was 2 against 1 with the Moderator on Biden's side. Through it all, Ryan kept his composure. I wouldn't have been able to do that, I would have told Biden to shut the hell up and let me finish a point. Don't know how that would have gone over, and it seems like Biden was baiting Ryan into some sort of reaction.

Funny how Republicans are always called the party of "Angry White Men". Their was one angry old white guy out there last night, and one guy keeping his cool. I think Biden was trying to do too much to make up for Barack's empty chair in the first debate. Overreach.

Win to Paul Ryan. The only state this could have any effect in is Wisconsin. Other than that, VP debates do very little to move the dial.

I'm being totally honest here: I would have given it to Biden had it not been for the split screens last night, or for the direct camera shots on him at points during the evening where he looked incredulous, or when he smirked or openly laughed. Character is a big part of all this, or it should be, or at least they should pretend that it matters. He looked like a total a-hole last night. I actually have always like old Joe, but he made a major blunder on the decorum front last night.

BTW, I would have given it to him based on his ability to maintain an offensive position. It's a nod in his direction based on the technical nature of scoring a debate. It would not have been a major victory, because that's all he accomplished (based on audio only). Besides, the nod would have come with serious baggage on his end for suggesting that the White House didn't know that additional security had been requested for the embassy. That was a big mistake.

So he would have had a slight margin of victory, in my book, for his execution when he had the floor and for maintaining offensive pressure. Nonetheless, Ryan held his own. He did more than hold his own. And his ability to conduct himself in a proper fashion, even at the end, further amplified just how poorly Biden did overall.

And with all that offered, as Snipe pointed out, the needle didn't budge at all, coming off that 90 minutes.

BTW, the moderator was horrid.

[vee4xu]

Didn't watch one second of the debate, but read reviews from several sources. Seems that Joe's job was to re-energize the base and the consensus was that he did so. So, from that perspective he did what he had to do for his party and really not much else probably matters to the Obama campaign. He set the table for his boss this coming Tuesday night for round two of the presidential debate.

[vee4xu]

The people of the richest country in the world have been fleeced by their own government under the guise that there are all these unresolvable divides between "the sides". You are dumber than dirt if you believe any of this shit. The richest country in the world. In debt to the tune of trillions of dollars. And the average American will have to pay the bill, because it's a government of the people. Your representatives have fucked you over but good. Both sides are scumbags.

And may I add to this eloquent and accurate assessment from my soapbox that with the new political contribution laws add corporations to the list of those choosing who gets to stick it to us. Or should i say US.

[CinciX12]

Ryan would have been much better if he wasn't trying to defend Romney's positions on things. I think that it was definitely a clear sign that he is struggling at time to be the background person on the ticket.

All day republican's have been saying that Ryan seemed 'Presidential'. I actually agree. More so than Romney usually.