Reds!

[Cheesehead]

Wow! That is all. Suck it Pirates.

[BENWAR]

The Cuban Missile has struck again!!

[paulxu]

It is great to open up the paper and see the Reds with the longest active winning streak.
Can not believe that the Pirates are in second, while St. Louis has the biggest run differential.
Something is crazy about this season. I'm afraid to jinx it.

When we were 15-1, I blame the blemish of that season on an ill-advised trip to Charlotte.
Perhaps I'll not go to Cincy to see the Reds for a while.

[Jumpy]

Think of what it must feel like to be a Pirates or even a Cards fan right now. The Pirates are 8-2 in their last ten and have won three straight and St Louis is 7-3 with four straight in that span. Neither has moved closer to the Reds because of our streak. The entire Pirates roster is playing out of their minds with career years up and down the lineup and all they can muster is second place.

This is all spurred on by pitching and defense and I hope Jockety doesn't forget it.

[gladdenguy]

And how do Reds fans feel when they have won 8 in a row and 15 of 17 and can't get any separation. The Central has 3 teams all at least 8 over, and the Reds and Pirates well into double digits over.

[fellahmuskie]

Now, if only Dusty weren't the manager, the Reds would easily be thirty games over .500. In fact, if the Reds don't run the table in the playoffs this year, I think they should fire ol' toothpick chewer. What a horrible manager and under-achieving bunch of ballplayers. God, I wish baseball season was over already.

[stophorseabuse]

I am afraid the huge contract to Phillips is a sign they may just have forgot it.

Keeping Cueto, Latos, Bailey, and Chapman as a top 4 in a future rotation is the key to sustained success IMO. I could see Chapman, Cueto, Latos equaling Glavin, Maddux, Smoltz. Votto is a must. He is the ONLY unreplaceable position player.

I would love to see someone to protect Votto. Phillips is already signed, so he is a decent top of the order hitter. I think Frazier is a main stay. A guy like Ludwick is always available. There is no one of great value at catcher.

I think this team can be highly successful for a long time with just the current pieces plus a mid level closer, and a serious bat to protect Votto. I don't think Bruce is that guy, and I would LOVE for them to trade Bruce this offseason. I like Bruce, but I don't think he is worth what he will cost soon. I think that load was shot on Phillips.

If we knew the REAL budget, it would be easier to know how to feel.

[Juice]

I am afraid the huge contract to Phillips is a sign they may just have forgot it.

Keeping Cueto, Latos, Bailey, and Chapman as a top 4 in a future rotation is the key to sustained success IMO. I could see Chapman, Cueto, Latos equaling Glavin, Maddux, Smoltz. Votto is a must. He is the ONLY unreplaceable position player.

I would love to see someone to protect Votto. Phillips is already signed, so he is a decent top of the order hitter. I think Frazier is a main stay. A guy like Ludwick is always available. There is no one of great value at catcher.

I think this team can be highly successful for a long time with just the current pieces plus a mid level closer, and a serious bat to protect Votto. I don't think Bruce is that guy, and I would LOVE for them to trade Bruce this offseason. I like Bruce, but I don't think he is worth what he will cost soon. I think that load was shot on Phillips.

If we knew the REAL budget, it would be easier to know how to feel.

Ummmmm Mesoraco?
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2012/2612998.html
Please see #16. The kid turned 24 a month ago.

[fellahmuskie]

What's best about this Reds season for me is that they've completely washed out the foul taste in my mouth from last season.

Reds at 2011 All-Star break: 45-47, 4th place in Central, 4 behind Milwaukee and St. Louis, 3 behind Pittsburgh.
Reds on July 28, 2011: 50-55, 4th place in Central, 6.5 behind MIL, 5 behind STL, and 5 behind PIT.

Reds at 2012 All-Star break: 47-38, 2nd place in Central, 1 behind PIT, 1.5 up on STL and 7 up on MIL.
Reds on July 28, 2012: 60-40, 1st place in Central, 2 up on PIT, 6.5 up on STL and 14.5!!! up on MIL.

Might I also mention that the Reds are tied with Washington and the Yankees for the best record in the majors? Pretty fun time to be a Reds fan.

[XU-PA]

love where the reds are, and the fight in that group, it never seems to be over. Drew Stubbs this past week, knocking in winning runs in the 9th, twice, on the road, wow!

really love where the cards (6 1/2 back) and the phillies (15 1/2 back) are this season!

[X-band '01]

It's way too early to think the Cards are out of it; it should be a fun race for the Central even if it's just the Reds and Pirates involved. While the Pirates and Braves have the inside track on the wild card slots this year, just ask the Braves and their fans about their late-season lead against the Cards.

[Porkopolis]

It's way too early to think the Cards are out of it; it should be a fun race for the Central even if it's just the Reds and Pirates involved. While the Pirates and Braves have the inside track on the wild card slots this year, just ask the Braves and their fans about their late-season lead against the Cards.

Veering a bit off topic, but I highly recommend the book Baseball's Starry Night on Amazon (the only place you can get it). It is a great "through the fans eyes" story of the end of the 2011 playoff chase.

[PM Thor]

And with this 10th straight win for the Reds (7-2 in the 9th), Marty Brennaman will have his head shaved. He even confirmed it in his lead in for todays game. Gotta love that kind of stuff from the freaking hometown announcer.

A 3 game lead and a 3 game series coming up next weekend at home vs the Pirates. That is going to be a huge series.

I HATE dayton.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Go Reds!

[muskienick]

Seemingly, to some Dusty is still a blithering idiot. Mind you, I don't believe he's any more infallible than I. But the guy has assembled a very nice coaching staff around him, gives them a lot of responsibility in their areas of expertise (especially Bryan Price and Brook Jacoby), and has done a fine job of keeping his players fresh by working others into the lineup without negatively affecting the overall play of the team. With his clever tinkering of the lineup during Votto's absence, he has kept the Reds hitting on all cylinders and finally consistently doing what many past Reds' teams failed to do: beating the teams that they should beat!

Great pitching and defense are the two most important qualities that lead to success. Timely hitting doesn't hurt either. The Reds have done exceedingly well in all three categories. With almost two-thirds of the regular season gone, they are tied for the best record in baseball with one other team (surpassing even the Yankees). The players seem to genuinely like and respect Dusty and he returns the favor!

Perhaps Manager Baker deserves a little bit of that from Reds' fans as well!

[Porkopolis]

This is a fun team to watch. They seem to have the killer instinct the 2011 team (and even the 2010 division champs) lacked. When they are ahead they simply put their foot on the opponent's neck and press harder. When the other team is ahead the Reds claw like crazy to beat them. A lot of the guys on this team don't just want to win, they need to win.

[gladdenguy]

Now, if only Dusty weren't the manager, the Reds would easily be thirty games over .500. In fact, if the Reds don't run the table in the playoffs this year, I think they should fire ol' toothpick chewer. What a horrible manager and under-achieving bunch of ballplayers. God, I wish baseball season was over already.

That is an excellent post.

And for the Dusty lovers. Lets not jump the gun here. The Reds are 21 over, only 3 games up on Pittsburgh and 6.5 up on St. Louis. Crusty will get no credit unless he wins a playoff series. If he doesn't, he should be walking.

And if I just saw that Brook Jacoby was a "good coach" I'm going to vomit. Now Bryan Price is a damn good pitching coach. I'll give Crusty credit on that hire.

[nuts4xu]

I like Bruce, but I don't think he is worth what he will cost soon. I think that load was shot on Phillips.

The cost for Bruce is known, as he is signed through 2016, with an club option for 2017. No matter how big the load was they shot on Phillips, they already knew the load they blew on Bruce and shouldn't need to trade either any time soon.

I agree they could use another bat, but I don't see the Reds parting with a home grown talent, signed at a reasonable price for another 3-4 years, who is only 25 years old. The other bat will likely play left or center. I would love to see them trade Stubbs for a legitimate lead off hitter, and think he is easier to get rid of.

[Jumpy]

Trade Stubbs now, while he is hot. I would love to have Dexter Fowler for this playoff run, but he would cost too much, I'm afraid. If we want to get off cheap, the only real option is Juan Pierre.

[muskienick]

That is an excellent post.

And for the Dusty lovers. Lets not jump the gun here. The Reds are 21 over, only 3 games up on Pittsburgh and 6.5 up on St. Louis. Crusty will get no credit unless he wins a playoff series. If he doesn't, he should be walking.

And if I just saw that Brook Jacoby was a "good coach" I'm going to vomit. Now Bryan Price is a damn good pitching coach. I'll give Crusty credit on that hire.

Jacoby has been given a lot of credit by media insiders for the improvement of Ludwick's performance since the beginning of the season. Where would the Reds be without his many timely hits over the last two months? Stubbs has also been key during this more recent streak since Joey Votto's stint on the disabled list. Each of those guys were almost pathetic during the first two months of the 2012 season. The change in weather is not likely to have been the only variable involved in those transformations!

[bleedXblue]

Trade Stubbs now, while he is hot. I would love to have Dexter Fowler for this playoff run, but he would cost too much, I'm afraid. If we want to get off cheap, the only real option is Juan Pierre.

When Stubbs gets hot he gets really, really hot. But, I do agree dump him for anything worthwhile when you can, he's going to be a career .250 hitter and strike out A LOT

[Kahns Krazy]

That is an excellent post.

And for the Dusty lovers. Lets not jump the gun here. The Reds are 21 over, only 3 games up on Pittsburgh and 6.5 up on St. Louis. Crusty will get no credit unless he wins a playoff series. If he doesn't, he should be walking.

And if I just saw that Brook Jacoby was a "good coach" I'm going to vomit. Now Bryan Price is a damn good pitching coach. I'll give Crusty credit on that hire.

The Reds are "only" up 3 games on the current wildcard playoff team. The Reds "only" share the best record in baseball. It's "only" been 13 years since a Reds team has strung together 10 in a row. Dusty sucks.

Magic number is 59. Big series coming up this weekend.

[bleedXblue]

The Reds are "only" up 3 games on the current wildcard playoff team. The Reds "only" share the best record in baseball. It's "only" been 13 years since a Reds team has strung together 10 in a row. Dusty sucks.

Magic number is 59. Big series coming up this weekend.

Would agree that you can't point any fingers at Dusty right now. They're winning w/o Votto and the team has really come together. Dusty bashers should just be quiet right now. I'm not a big fan of his, but he's argueably done his best managing job the last 2-3 weeks that we've seen since he's been in Cincy.

[drudy23]

When Stubbs gets hot he gets really, really hot. But, I do agree dump him for anything worthwhile when you can, he's going to be a career .250 hitter and strike out A LOT

I don't know....I think they view Stubbs as part of their core (Votto, Bruce, Phillips). If they can get a true lead-off guy, I think you plug Stubbs in the 6/7 hole, and let him be. He's a tremdous asset in CF and defense is a huge part of this team's success. He's also a solid, aggressive base runner.

I think Cozart or Heisey are on the block before Stubbs.

[bleedXblue]

I don't know....I think they view Stubbs as part of their core (Votto, Bruce, Phillips). If they can get a true lead-off guy, I think you plug Stubbs in the 6/7 hole, and let him be. He's a tremdous asset in CF and defense is a huge part of this team's success. He's also a solid, aggressive base runner.

I think Cozart or Heisey are on the block before Stubbs.

Would agree with Heisey being on the block, but his "value" and long term potential are nowhere near what Stubbs value is. I've just seen enough of Stubbs the last 3 years to think he's never going to hit the way he needs to hit. Putting him 6 or 7 in the lineup basically renders his base running ability to insignificant. He's still young, I hope I'm wrong.

Cozart is interesting. I'm assuming you think SS is Hamilton's for the next 10 years and he'll be playing with the big boys next year ? Otherwise, they still need him and I think he's a guy that can eventually hit .280 and play a really solid SS.

[Juice]

Would agree with Heisey being on the block, but his "value" and long term potential are nowhere near what Stubbs value is. I've just seen enough of Stubbs the last 3 years to think he's never going to hit the way he needs to hit. Putting him 6 or 7 in the lineup basically renders his base running ability to insignificant. He's still young, I hope I'm wrong.

Cozart is interesting. I'm assuming you think SS is Hamilton's for the next 10 years and he'll be playing with the big boys next year ? Otherwise, they still need him and I think he's a guy that can eventually hit .280 and play a really solid SS.

They won't trade Cozart this year. Hamilton won't be here until 2013. Didi Gregorious probably has a better chance at being the SS of the future than Hamilton. Didi plays awesome defense and his bat is starting to come around in Louisville this year. Hamilton is obviously a work in progress but he commits far too many errors to stick at SS.

[drudy23]

Cozart is interesting. I'm assuming you think SS is Hamilton's for the next 10 years and he'll be playing with the big boys next year ? Otherwise, they still need him and I think he's a guy that can eventually hit .280 and play a really solid SS.

I'm just looking at it where to get something in return (a decent starter or lead off guy), we need to give something up of value. I don't think we'll deal Stubbs, so the next most valuable guys I think we part with are Cozart and Heisey (with Cozart being the most valuable).

We're not trading Bruce, Phillips, or Votto...no one will want Rolen (since we'll likely be trading with a non-contender - Rolen is valuable for late inning defense, but worthless to a team not going to the playoffs)...I don't think we'll part with Stubbs...so that leaves Cozart, Heisey, and Frazier. I don't think we part with Frazier because of the question marks health-wise with Rolen.

Unless we see a trade with nothing but prospects (which could happen if we're dealing with a smaller market team), Cozart and heisey seem like the obvious choices. I wouldn't be surprised if we deal Hamilton....he'd be great trade bait for another starter.

[bleedXblue]

They won't trade Cozart this year. Hamilton won't be here until 2013. Didi Gregorious probably has a better chance at being the SS of the future than Hamilton. Didi plays awesome defense and his bat is starting to come around in Louisville this year. Hamilton is obviously a work in progress but he commits far too many errors to stick at SS.

Hamilton has the speed to play in the OF....likely CF.

I really dont see the Reds doing any significant trading prior to the deadline.

The hot streak is a blessing and a curse. I still think their biggest need is to get someone behind Votto and putting Phillips in the 2 spot. Dusty wont put Bruce there and Rolen/Ludwick doesnt scare anyone.

[Juice]

Hamilton has the speed to play in the OF....likely CF.

I really dont see the Reds doing any significant trading prior to the deadline.

The hot streak is a blessing and a curse. I still think their biggest need is to get someone behind Votto and putting Phillips in the 2 spot. Dusty wont put Bruce there and Rolen/Ludwick doesnt scare anyone.

Ludwick has an OPS of .850. That's not the greatest ever for cleanup hitter but it's certainly better than Phillips being in the 4 spot, since Phillips is not a power hitter and his skills are best utilized elsewhere in the lineup, 1 or 2.

[drudy23]

Well, the Reds get the Royals closer to be a set up man for The Missile.

I hope this means Bill Bray gets the hook....he's the weakest link. Yeah, I know he's a left hander.

Probably not a huge need, but I guess it makes us better.

[stophorseabuse]

Maybe I am the only one thinking this, but I hope Broxton is here to be the closer, and the Reds start stretching Chapman and have him in the rotation by the end of September.

While it is crazy to tinker, a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 of Cueto, Chapman, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, Latos sounds like a team that could win a World Series. By Playoffs Chapman could throw 100 pitches.

If they are playing to make sure of an appearance, keep things status quo. If they want a title, make the change.

[drudy23]

Maybe I am the only one thinking this, but I hope Broxton is here to be the closer, and the Reds start stretching Chapman and have him in the rotation by the end of September.

While it is crazy to tinker, a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 of Cueto, Chapman, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, Latos sounds like a team that could win a World Series. By Playoffs Chapman could throw 100 pitches.

If they are playing to make sure of an appearance, keep things status quo. If they want a title, make the change.

I had the same thought.

I say set a 3 man rotation for the playoffs...most of the time you get the off days to only need a three man rotation.

Cueto...Chapman...Latos

The Reds are usually pretty conservative...and I think making The Missile a starter at this point in the season is way too over the top.

[Juice]

Maybe I am the only one thinking this, but I hope Broxton is here to be the closer, and the Reds start stretching Chapman and have him in the rotation by the end of September.

While it is crazy to tinker, a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 of Cueto, Chapman, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, Latos sounds like a team that could win a World Series. By Playoffs Chapman could throw 100 pitches.

If they are playing to make sure of an appearance, keep things status quo. If they want a title, make the change.

If people hated Cordero, they sure will despise Broxton. His WHIP is 1.40 this season, and his K/9 is 6.3 and his BB/9 is 3.5. Those numbers suck. I would have moved Donnie Joseph or JJ Hoover up from Louisville before I gave away actual assets for Broxton.

[X-band '01]

Maybe I am the only one thinking this, but I hope Broxton is here to be the closer, and the Reds start stretching Chapman and have him in the rotation by the end of September.

While it is crazy to tinker, a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 of Cueto, Chapman, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Chapman, Latos sounds like a team that could win a World Series. By Playoffs Chapman could throw 100 pitches.

If they are playing to make sure of an appearance, keep things status quo. If they want a title, make the change.

I still see no reason to yank Chapman from that role this season. My guess is that Broxton is also insurance for next year when Ryan Madson is able to pitch again (assuming he's still a Red next season).

[X-band '01]

Check that - Broxton is a free agent for next season. I forget how many years Madson has left on his deal.

[Porkopolis]

Bray is going on the DL, so Redmond will take his spot for one night until Broxton gets here. Masset threw to live batters yesterday so he is getting close.

[Juice]

Check that - Broxton is a free agent for next season. I forget how many years Madson has left on his deal.

Madson signed for 1 year. I highly doubt the Reds will sign him again.

[StanleyOwnsYou]

Not a chance Chapman starts a game this year, stretching him out would take an entire spring training (plus the rest before then).

The interesting point for the bullpen will be when Massett comes back, Bray is certainly the odd man out right now and not many guys down there have options left.

[nuts4xu]

Madson signed for 1 year. I highly doubt the Reds will sign him again.

There is a mutal option for 2013 in his contract. If the Reds can sign him cheap, they just might keep him. He won't be full strength until 2014, so Madson could stick with the Reds as a project.

[nuts4xu]

Not a chance Chapman starts a game this year, stretching him out would take an entire spring training (plus the rest before then).



Anytime I hear about trying to stretch out a pitcher to put into the rotation this late in the season, I think of how it ruined Danny Graves career. I would love to see Chapman as a starter, but I agree it should be after a spring training.

He is unhittable some nights in his current role, and I love him closing games for the Reds. It may not be the best thing for next season, but right now AC is about as dominant a closer as anyone in the game. I wouldn't mess with him at this stage of the season.

[Juice]

There is a mutal option for 2013 in his contract. If the Reds can sign him cheap, they just might keep him. He won't be full strength until 2014, so Madson could stick with the Reds as a project.

A 11.5 million dollar project?

[X-band '01]

Were you expecting Mark Wohlers-cheap, perhaps?

[Juice]

Were you expecting Mark Wohlers-cheap, perhaps?

Closers are the most overpaid players in baseball. I sure as hell don't want to spend top money on a closer coming off Tommy John.

[PM Thor]

Chapman is a freak. He's averaging 17 strike outs per 9 innings, and has 35 S/O to 3 walks. Crazy.

I HATE dayton.

[X-band '01]

Yep - if you're an Indian fan or a Twins fan, you caught Chapman at the right time of the year.

It would be something if Marshall/Broxton/Chapman could match what the Nasty Boys did back in 1990. And this year's team has a better top-to-bottom rotation than that team did.

[gladdenguy]

Yep - if you're an Indian fan or a Twins fan, you caught Chapman at the right time of the year.

It would be something if Marshall/Broxton/Chapman could match what the Nasty Boys did back in 1990. And this year's team has a better top-to-bottom rotation than that team did.

But, they had a pitcher Jack Armstrong who had an ace type 1st half of the year, and a pitcher named Jose Rijo who had an ace type 2nd half with an MVP World Series performance. The Reds have 4 pitchers out of 5 who haven't thrown 200 innings. Danny Jackson and Tom Browning made a 3 man playoff rotation that was pretty darn good. Will the Reds have 3 pitchers as good come October? Doubtful.

[X-band '01]

It's true that Jack Armstrong had a great 1st half that year (and even wound up starting the All-Star Game), although he tailed off the 2nd half of the year.

What is remarkable right now is that the Reds have had the same starting 5 since the beginning of the season - it's something you rarely see nowadays due to injuries and occasional spot starts from other pitchers. Cueto and Arroyo both bring postseason experience to the table even without Travis Wood and Edinson Volquez from the 2010 team.

Contrast that to the Pirates rotation - they deal for Wandy Rodriguez (which knocked Kevin Correia out of their rotation) and almost instantly Correia requests a trade. Their chemistry could be called into question where the Reds' chemistry has been very consistent all year.

[PM Thor]

Ahh Jack Armstrong. I worked at Riverfront the entire season, and that dude was....unique. We would catch him running the red section steps, which was impressive because it was so big, but he would do it at any time of the day, even after the lights were shut off and the cleanup crew was going at it.

I HATE dayton.

[DC Muskie]

Yep - if you're an Indian fan or a Twins fan, you caught Chapman at the right time of the year.

What does this even mean?

You write some very weird stuff Bandman.

[XU 87]

What does this even mean?

You write some very weird stuff Bandman.

Chapman had about a ten day stretch where he pitched very poorly. The Reds played the Twins and the Indians (and the Tigers) during that stretch.

[X-band '01]

What does this even mean?

You write some very weird stuff Bandman.

Yes Kettle, I agree.

[nuts4xu]

A 11.5 million dollar project?

Why would Madson be an 11.5 million dollar project? He only made 8.5 this year, why do you think he would get a raise after ending his season to have surgery?

My statement was "if the Reds can sign him cheap, they might just keep him", which in no way would mean they pay him 11.5 million bucks. I agree with you, that is way too expensive for a project. But Ryan Madson is unlikely to ever see a contract that matches evne the 8.5 million dollar deal he has in place right now.

If they can sign him for a fraction of that, and coming off Tommy John, it seems very conceivable, then I see no harm in letting him rehab in the Reds organization. The Reds have seen similar come backs with pitchers before (Mark Wohlers and Pete Schourek come to mind).

[vee4xu]

What does this even mean?

You write some very weird stuff Bandman.

Yup. I don't get it either. Also, I looked at the calendar and it is August, not October. Last time I looked, no one has won a World Series in August. Take nothing away from the Reds the past month, but it is August.

[Juice]

Why would Madson be an 11.5 million dollar project? He only made 8.5 this year, why do you think he would get a raise after ending his season to have surgery?

My statement was "if the Reds can sign him cheap, they might just keep him", which in no way would mean they pay him 11.5 million bucks. I agree with you, that is way too expensive for a project. But Ryan Madson is unlikely to ever see a contract that matches evne the 8.5 million dollar deal he has in place right now.

If they can sign him for a fraction of that, and coming off Tommy John, it seems very conceivable, then I see no harm in letting him rehab in the Reds organization. The Reds have seen similar come backs with pitchers before (Mark Wohlers and Pete Schourek come to mind).

1 year/$8.5M (2012), plus 2013 mutual option

signed by Cincinnati as a free agent 1/20/12
12:$6M, 13:$11M mutual option ($2.5M buyout)

Sorry, I misread, it's a 11 million dollar option. The Reds will decline the shit out of that. And I don't see them clearing a roster spot so he can pitch in the major coming off Tommy John. He did it as the season was beginning so he's going to be ready to do shortly after the season begins. I don't see the Reds wasting the spot nor the money on a guy that they have no idea how he will handle his new elbow. They could out him on the DL but he will take a spot on the 40 man unless they put him on the 60 day DL. And I'm not sure about this, but I doubt he has options left.

I can see Madson signing with someone crappy and boosting his value and then signing for a new contract after that.

[paulxu]

When do Votto and Bruce come back?

[bleedXblue]

When do Votto and Bruce come back?

Bruce has been out ?

Man this board is really starting to confuse me on some things.

Do you mean Phillips ?

Sounds like Votto is at least a week away. It's only been 16 days since his surgery and they were projecting 3-4 weeks.

[paulxu]

My bad, I meant Phillips.

[DC Muskie]

Chapman had about a ten day stretch where he pitched very poorly. The Reds played the Twins and the Indians (and the Tigers) during that stretch.

Chapman did not have a very good June overall.

It just seemed totally random to pick two teams out of the blue like that. What about the Pirates and Tigers?

Bandman just writes some very random stuff in my opinion. Like this:


Yes Kettle, I agree.

It's nothing bad, it's just an opinion.

[GoMuskies]

Big weekend. Great chance for the Reds to get some serious separation.

[DC Muskie]

Big weekend. Great chance for the Reds to get some serious separation.

Lot of games left with Pirates, but it will be a fun series to keep an eye on.

[UCGRAD4X]

I love how players have picked it up in the absence of Votto.

Two things have to happen that are not a given:

1) They have to keep over-the-top performances going against a tough Pirate team (at least)
2) not let up when Votto gets back - as in, "Joey's back so we can relax now."

Unlikely that Votto's going to step right back into it - but it wouldn't completely surprise me, but even if he does - he can't do it alone.

Amazingly, the third place team is 15 1/2 games out. There is only one other division with a LAST place team that is more than 15 1/2.

Admittedly that is skewed a bit by the fact that the NL Central has six teams - soon to be taken care of when Houston switches to the AL.

[XU 87]

Chapman did not have a very good June overall.

It just seemed totally random to pick two teams out of the blue like that. What about the Pirates and Tigers?



You and I are both splitting hairs a bit. Chapman pitched well the first week of June, lousy the next , great the next, and lousy the next and then pitched well his last June game. He had 5 bad games- two with the Tribe, one with the Tigers, one with the Twins and one with the Pirates.

But there's really no doubt that the Indians and the Twins (and the Tigers) hit against Chapman during the "right time"- he was pitching terribly at that point.

[GoMuskies]

Thank God it's Milwaukee and St. Louis on Sunday night baseball this week. Who'd want to see the Reds/Pirates instead of that very important contest?

[paulxu]

I hope all you lightweights are down on the banks getting lubed up to go cheer the Reds on against the pesky Pirates tonight.

[X-band '01]

Bruce has been out ?

Man this board is really starting to confuse me on some things.

Do you mean Phillips ?

Sounds like Votto is at least a week away. It's only been 16 days since his surgery and they were projecting 3-4 weeks.

Bruce won't start tonight because of his numbers against Pirate pitcher Wandy Rodriguez, but would be available as a pinch-hitter.

It looks like Phillips is still day-to-day.

[X-band '01]

Bandman just writes some very random stuff in my opinion. Like this:



It's nothing bad, it's just an opinion.

That scouting report on me was let out of the bag a long time ago. Believe it was the Fawker who originally said that.

[paulxu]

Nice job Tats.

[xubball1993]

no doubt...helping himself out w/a 2-run homer!

[Jumpy]

I was at the game tonight and I can honestly say it was the second best sporting experience of my life. Sat in a luxury box that was next to the one that Charlie and Martin Sheen were in, say a fantastic game, saw Marty get his buzz cut, saw the best fireworks show in MLB and had some drinks on the Banks afterwords. What a great night.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I was at the game tonight and I can honestly say it was the second best sporting experience of my life. Sat in a luxury box that was next to the one that Charlie and Martin Sheen were in, say a fantastic game, saw Marty get his buzz cut, saw the best fireworks show in MLB and had some drinks on the Banks afterwords. What a great night.

It was Martin's birthday. Charlie put a message up on the jumbotron.

http://a.yfrog.com/img734/5454/5rain.jpg



Charlie and Martin had a pretty fun time at Ruby's from what I hear.

[gladdenguy]

Wow, this team continues to amaze me. I have to give my due diligence to Dusty.
That F.U. pitch to McCutcheon was awesome. Suck on it Pittsburgh.

This town is craving a good Reds team that can win games this postseason. Hopefully this is it. The atmosphere was unbelievable last night.

[UCGRAD4X]

That F.U. pitch to McCutcheon was awesome. Suck on it Pittsburgh.

Gotta give the young dude credit though. How hard was it not to rub on a hit from 100 mph on the long walk down to 1st base.

[sweet16]

It was Martin's birthday. Charlie put a message up on the jumbotron.

http://a.yfrog.com/img734/5454/5rain.jpg



Charlie and Martin had a pretty fun time at Ruby's from what I hear.

I was there as well.........great atmosphere. Would that be Tony Todd sportin' the C/Sheen t-shirt?

[paulxu]

MOR is not going to be happy about Wild Thing in a Red's cap.

[Kahns Krazy]

Wow, this team continues to amaze me. I have to give my due diligence to Dusty.
.

I'm sure Dusty is grateful to receive your examination of a potential target for merger, acquisition, privatization or similar corporate finance transaction.

[waggy]

Why would the Reds want to hit McCutcheon with a lead and two outs in the 9th? Makes no sense to me.

[drudy23]

Why would the Reds want to hit McCutcheon with a lead and two outs in the 9th? Makes no sense to me.

Makes no difference...when u hit the other teams best player with a 100 mph fastball near the head, you can expect to get one back.

Tonight should be very interesting...and entertaining.

[waggy]

I agree, but if that was intentional it was not smart.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Makes no difference...when u hit the other teams best player with a 100 mph fastball near the head, you can expect to get one back.

Tonight should be very interesting...and entertaining.

Totally agreed. I was at the game last night and the second that happened every single person in our section, including myself, was saying "at least they can't plunk Votto tomorrow". I would say that it's highly unlikely Chapman hit cutch on purpose but the Pirates have every right to hit one of our guys at some point this series to settle that score. They won't do it in a situation that could compromise the outcome of the game though so if they don't have a good spot to do it this weekend it will happen at some point over the last two series we face them. Like the saying goes, elephants and baseball managers never forget.

[X-band '01]

Makes no difference...when u hit the other teams best player with a 100 mph fastball near the head, you can expect to get one back.

Tonight should be very interesting...and entertaining.

With Votto and Phillips not likely to play, Ryan Ludwick would likely be a beanball target should the Pirates go that route. I don't blame McCutcheon for being upset for getting beaned under the circumstances, but I can't believe for a second there was intent to bean him and hurt him.

[XU 87]

I didn't see the first few innings. What happened when Harrison got hit? Did the HBP look intentional?

[An X Fan]

I didn't see the first few innings. What happened when Harrison got hit? Did the HBP look intentional?

Not intentional. Threw inside, hit him on the thigh. Harrison tried to look hard and Leake shrugged his shoulders at Harrison like "what are you talking about?" Home plate ump kind of overreacted and warned both benches. Hurdle came out to talk with the ump and got run for crossing the line somewhere. Probably would have been a basic HBP if Harrison and Leake hadn't exchanged looks and words.

[paulxu]

Bite me Pittsburgh. 5 1/2.

[Xavgrad08]

It's incredible they have been doing this without Votto. The energy in Great American has been awesome the past two nights.

[X-band '01]

Hurdle was pissed because his right to retaliate was taken away at that point - chances are he said the magic word to the umpire and got run.

The Pirate pitcher in the 8th inning gave one of the Reds baserunners a forearm shiver while tagging him out (whoever the backup catcher was last night) but nothing came of it.

I wouldn't expect anything major to happen today, but that doesn't mean that something won't happen later on down the line.

[drudy23]

Hurdle was pissed because his right to retaliate was taken away at that point - chances are he said the magic word to the umpire and got run.

The Pirate pitcher in the 8th inning gave one of the Reds baserunners a forearm shiver while tagging him out (whoever the backup catcher was last night) but nothing came of it.

I wouldn't expect anything major to happen today, but that doesn't mean that something won't happen later on down the line.

I was thinking that may have been a great calculated move by Dusty...him them before they can hit you, thus eliminating them being able to hit you back because of the warning and their started getting tossed in the 3rd.

Rest assured, they will get their retaliation....it could be today.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Haha. Charlie Sheen just said he's going to run for Mayor of Cincinnati on FSN Ohio at the Reds game.



"I want to give back to the community and make the city a little more fun"

[Cheesehead]

Haha. Charlie Sheen just said he's going to run for Mayor of Cincinnati on FSN Ohio at the Reds game.



"I want to give back to the community and make the city a little more fun"

Well, we had a former Mayor who also liked hookers. So, anything is possible.

[bleedXblue]

Anyone else concerned with Bailey and Leake ?

I've heard that we'll go to a 4 man rotation if we make the playoff's.

One of these two guys has got to step up and give us some quality starts.

Bailey was great in July, but his last two outings have looked very similar to his normal self.

[drudy23]

Bailey is Bailey....he's a .500 pitcher.

Leake is Leake...if he can't spot his pitches, it's batting practice.

Leake won't be in the playoff rotation, and Dusty will be hoping for some rain-outs so he can scratch Bailey.

[Fireball]

Bailey is Bailey....he's a .500 pitcher.

Leake is Leake...if he can't spot his pitches, it's batting practice.

Leake won't be in the playoff rotation, and Dusty will be hoping for some rain-outs so he can scratch Bailey.

Bailey's either on fire or he's horrible. You just have to hope that Bailey is in his "on fire' period when the playoffs roll around. I'd have to agree that Leake will not be in the playoff rotation.

[Juice]

Bailey is Bailey....he's a .500 pitcher.

Leake is Leake...if he can't spot his pitches, it's batting practice.

Leake won't be in the playoff rotation, and Dusty will be hoping for some rain-outs so he can scratch Bailey.

Probably shouldn't measure a guy in wins and losses. Felix Hernandez has won 19 games once and then his next highest total is 14, and he is one of the best pitchers alive.

[Smails]

Bailey's either on fire or he's horrible. You just have to hope that Bailey is in his "on fire' period when the playoffs roll around. I'd have to agree that Leake will not be in the playoff rotation.

If the basic premise is that every playoff team will go with a 4 man rotation, and you look at Bailey versus other condenders' #4 starters...he stacks up quite well. He's not a stopper, not an ace, but he might be the best #4 starter in the playoff hunt.

Bailey- 9-7, 3.9 ERA

Edwin Jackson- 6-7, 3.6 ERA

Chad Billingsley- 7-9, 3.7 ERA

Barry Zito- 8-8, 4.27 ERA

Kevin Correia 8-6. 4.5 ERA

[xu95]

If the Reds can somehow get the top seed in the NL, they could go with a three man rotation in the first round. They just need to pick the series that has the off day between games one and two like the Phillies did two years ago.

[bleedXblue]

I think its imperative that the reds get Votto back as soon as possible.

This improbable run without him can't be sustainable

[DC Muskie]

Do the Reds still have the best record in baseball?

[GoMuskies]

The Expos can't keep it up.

[DC Muskie]

The Expos can't keep it up.

I would say so, since they haven't fielded a team since 2004.

[paulxu]

Do the Reds still have the best record in baseball?

That's a Clown Question Bro.

[Xavgrad08]

Votto had another procedure done on his knee. They are saying he will be back in 7-10 days, but I am skeptical. With Rolen's back acting up, the Reds need others to step up.

[fellahmuskie]

Votto had another procedure done on his knee. They are saying he will be back in 7-10 days, but I am skeptical. With Rolen's back acting up, the Reds need others to step up.

I can't wait to get Votto back, either, but I'm really not concerned about the Reds in the meantime. Thanks to that unbelievable 22-3 streak beginning in San Diego, all the Reds need to do until October is tread water. I'm very confident 92-70 would get them in the playoffs, by which time Rolen and Votto should be more than healthy.

I remember seeing a poll on ESPN.com when Votto got hurt, asking whether the Reds would play over or under .500 in his absence. Something like 55% thought the Reds would be under .500. Well, I think they're 17-7 so far, and with 5 more games against the Cubs in the next 8 days, I'm pretty sure they can get to next Sunday at 72-50. The pitching staff is just too good to let the team lose very often, even when the offense sucks.

I mean, look at today's game. You've got Bronson throwing curveballs in the 60s, and yet he holds Chicago to 2 runs over 8 innings. Even though Travis Wood goes 7 innings, allowing 1 run, the Reds erupt for three quick runs in the 8th, Arroyo finishes out the bottom frame and Chapman takes care of the Cubbies in the 9th without breaking a sweat. The Reds, like any good team in any sport, wear opponents down. You might win the first 6,7, or 8 innings against Cincy, but more often than not, the Reds eventually strike, and, with their bullpen, it's almost always impossible to do anything about it. That's what I like about this team so much - they're not lucky so much as they're relentless. Yeah, it helps to play teams like the Astros and Cubs a lot, but they've done it against good teams all year, too.

I just hope they do something in the playoffs. All of this means nothing if they can't make it to the NLCS. October baseball is so wacky that I'm terrified they'll enter the postseason with the best record, then get swept in the first round - kind of like the Cubs a few years back.

[vee4xu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/sports/baseball/billy-hamilton-of-the-blue-wahoos-nears-minor-league-record-for-steals.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=sports

For all the Reds fans on this board, here's an article from today's NY Times about Billy Hamilton, a top Reds prospect. Just thought you'd enjoy this. He must have rocket speed.

[nuts4xu]

Billy Hamilton will most likely be called up when rosters expand in a few weeks. He is flying through the minors and has answered every challenge thrown his way. It will be interesting to see how he handles major league pitching.

[Juice]

Billy Hamilton will most likely be called up when rosters expand in a few weeks. He is flying through the minors and has answered every challenge thrown his way. It will be interesting to see how he handles major league pitching.

I would disagree with that a bit. His fielding isn't even close to big league ready and his hitting from the left side still could use tons of work. This guy started in High A this year. He is still extremely raw. I could see using him as a pinch runner but that is probably the extent of his usefulness at this point in his career. But then you would activate his service time to be a pinch runner in September.

[X-band '01]

You know the Reds are in a good spot when they can beat the Phillies with the bottom of their rotation. Cueto v. Hamels should be a good matchup tomorrow night.

I will say that the "Trash" (as DC affectionately calls them) should keep the maroon jerseys and scrap the current ones. Why the urge this year to go back to 80s jerseys (i.e. Baltimore, Toronto, etc.)

[AdamtheFlyer]

I would disagree with that a bit. His fielding isn't even close to big league ready and his hitting from the left side still could use tons of work. This guy started in High A this year. He is still extremely raw. I could see using him as a pinch runner but that is probably the extent of his usefulness at this point in his career. But then you would activate his service time to be a pinch runner in September.

Service time isn't an issue. It takes months of being on the big league roster to flip a service year. In fact, Bryce Harper won't even flip his first year this season. The Nats will have him for 6 more full years, through 2018. To balance, he will get a 4th year of arbitration. But Hamilton is in no danger of having early arbitration or free agency by being a September call up.

I do think the Reds will call him up in September, and probably again next September, before he hits the big leagues full time (as a centerfielder) in 2014. He will be strictly a pinch runner until after they clinch (if they clinch), or he could play late in a blowout. His hitting and fielding are nowhere near big league ready, but that really doesn't matter in a pointless game.

Can you imagine the electricity if Hamilton comes in to pinch run in the 9th inning of a tie game or with the Reds down by a run? The pitcher may throw over 8 times in a row, knowing he's running on the first pitch. And he'll probably be safe, because the math in what it takes to throw him out, both from the pitcher and catcher pop times, is downright absurd. Basically, if it takes longer than 3.1 seconds from the time the pitcher starts his motion to the time the ball arrives at the base, Hamilton will be safe virtually every time. At 3.0 seconds, it's bang-bang, and he's probably still safe. This is assuming a perfect throw from the catcher. If the throw is not on the perfect line and at the perfect height, he'll be safe regardless.

This is a great article on the math involved in stealing a base, and just how crazy fast Hamilton is. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-pulse/2012/2613901.html


He's truly the Usain Bolt of modern baserunning. He's just a tenth or two faster than everyone else, and that makes him nearly impossible to beat. If he can get on base at a .350ish or above clip when it's time for him to play in the bigs regularly, which is possible but very questionable, he will threaten Rickey Henderson's single season MLB record.

[Juice]

Service time isn't an issue. It takes months of being on the big league roster to flip a service year. In fact, Bryce Harper won't even flip his first year this season. The Nats will have him for 6 more full years, through 2018. To balance, he will get a 4th year of arbitration. But Hamilton is in no danger of having early arbitration or free agency by being a September call up.

I do think the Reds will call him up in September, and probably again next September, before he hits the big leagues full time (as a centerfielder) in 2014. He will be strictly a pinch runner until after they clinch (if they clinch), or he could play late in a blowout. His hitting and fielding are nowhere near big league ready, but that really doesn't matter in a pointless game.

Can you imagine the electricity if Hamilton comes in to pinch run in the 9th inning of a tie game or with the Reds down by a run? The pitcher may throw over 8 times in a row, knowing he's running on the first pitch. And he'll probably be safe, because the math in what it takes to throw him out, both from the pitcher and catcher pop times, is downright absurd. Basically, if it takes longer than 3.1 seconds from the time the pitcher starts his motion to the time the ball arrives at the base, Hamilton will be safe virtually every time. At 3.0 seconds, it's bang-bang, and he's probably still safe. This is assuming a perfect throw from the catcher. If the throw is not on the perfect line and at the perfect height, he'll be safe regardless.

This is a great article on the math involved in stealing a base, and just how crazy fast Hamilton is. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-pulse/2012/2613901.html


He's truly the Usain Bolt of modern baserunning. He's just a tenth or two faster than everyone else, and that makes him nearly impossible to beat. If he can get on base at a .350ish or above clip when it's time for him to play in the bigs regularly, which is possible but very questionable, he will threaten Rickey Henderson's single season MLB record.

But he also loses an option if he is used this year because the Reds will have to put him on the 40 man this season and then option him back down at the beginning of next year. I don't see the need to waste options just to have a base runner in September when the division is all but locked up.

Hamilton is very fast, but hes technically not a great base stealer yet. His numbers show it, but he can improve.

[fellahmuskie]

How about that 9.5 game lead in the Central? Also, anyone think the Brewers or Phillies can sneak back into this? I feel kind of bad for the Pirates, but I definitely wouldn't mind it if the Cardinals and Dodgers both missed out on the playoffs.

I guess my money is on the Phillies making a good run at the last wild card spot. They're only 5 back, plus they've got an easy schedule. If the Reds dominate Stl, Mil, Pit, and La the rest of the way, they might just do it. Not that I like the Phillies or anything, but I would love for the Reds to knock them out of the playoffs this year.

[gladdenguy]

Not that I like the Phillies or anything, but I would love for the Reds to knock them out of the playoffs this year.

I would rather play anybody but the Phillies. The Reds haven't played the Phillies well in a long time.
Either way, I'm hoping the Reds play the Giants as the 2 seed then the winner of the Nats/Wildcard in the NLCS.

[X-band '01]

Gladden, the 4-game split in Philly is looking better and better given the Phillies' resurgence in the past 2 months. Losing 2 of 3 at home hurt a little, but the Reds don't really need a sense of urgency to beat them at this point.

I don't think the Reds would possibly face the Phillies until the NLCS - even if they do sneak in, they'll have to likely face Atlanta in a wild-card play-in game and then face Washington in the NLDS. The Reds will likely finish as the 2nd seed and wind up playing the NL West champ - most likely the Giants but could be the Dodgers should LA finish hot.

I'll go another step further - if you look at the way the rotation is setting up, guess who starts game #162 at St. Louis? Johnny Cueto. Imagine how the Cards would approach that game if their regular season comes down to the final game while the Reds can set up their pitching rotation.

[gladdenguy]

Yeah I'm saying the Reds get the 2 seed and play the Giants in the NLDS.....which that means the first 2 games out of five will be in SF...gotta win one of those.....then face the winner of the Nats/wild card in a 7 game series to go to the World Series.

[BENWAR]

The thing that pisses me off is that we will have to travel to SF for the first two games of the series.

Edit: GG beat me to it.

[X-band '01]

I kinda like the matchup with the Giants better than the Dodgers - while Matt Cain makes for a troublesome pitching matchup, the Reds have had some success against Vogelsong and Bumgarner. Lincecum even in his prime has never pitched well against the Reds.

The Dodgers have the talent but not the chemistry at this point.

[Kahns Krazy]

Has anyone been at or watched the games the last two nights? The barking/howling/"boooow" thing better stop before I go to my next game.

[X-band '01]

Sounds like it started Monday night since it was a Bark in the Park night. Xeus may have started the whole racket for all I know.

It was kinda funny on Monday given that it was a long game, but I forgot about it until I tuned in to the telecast tonight and they (read: Chris Welsh) wanted to see if it was going to catch on with the fans.

[Juice]

Has anyone been at or watched the games the last two nights? The barking/howling/"boooow" thing better stop before I go to my next game.

Party pooper. I hope it continues and gets real loud during the playoffs.

[nkymuskie]

I'm pro woooo! Woooooooo!

[nuts4xu]

Has anyone been at or watched the games the last two nights? The barking/howling/"boooow" thing better stop before I go to my next game.

It is as annoying as the vevezulas heard at the last world cup! My ears were bleeding last night, its awful!

[bigdiggins]

1022

[X-band '01]

Come on Nuts, leave the zyzzybalubahs out of this. I didn't have a problem with them.

[paulxu]

How 'bout them Reds!

[Porkopolis]

The Reds have a chance to make some serious noise in the playoffs. We'll see if that actually happens but this club feels very different than the 2010 edition.

[mohr5150]

Suck it, Cardinals!

[vee4xu]

To each of my fellow Muskie fans who also happen to be Reds fans, congratulations. Enjoy the ride.

[Juice]

The Reds have a chance to make some serious noise in the playoffs. We'll see if that actually happens but this club feels very different than the 2010 edition.

It's a better pitching staff with Latos and an older/better Homer Bailey. Ludwick is a much better player than Gomes and Frazier provides some depth at 1st and 3rd.

[nuts4xu]

But those friggin dog howls need to cease immediately.

If you know someone responsible for this inane activity, please club them to death with a Louisville Slugger. In return I will meet you wherever is needed with a tarp, chains, and a stolen crappy car we can burn up and dump into the Ohio River. Just PM me and I will drop whatever it is I am doing, and head to your location with bleach, rubber gloves, lyme, and whatever else is needed to dispose of the subject.

[Kahns Krazy]

Party pooper. I hope it continues and gets real loud during the playoffs.


I'm pro woooo! Woooooooo!

I am 100% sure that you have not sat at a game in front of one of these fools yelling in the middle of a game. Cheer on your team, do not annoy your fellow fans.

[Juice]

I am 100% sure that you have not sat at a game in front of one of these fools yelling in the middle of a game. Cheer on your team, do not annoy your fellow fans.

I've done it at a game.

1028

[X-band '01]

If they win a playoff game or two because of those dog howls, your worst nightmare is about to come true.

The Reds are currently a half game back of Washington for home field, but the Giants are only something like 4-5 games back for the 2 seed. They can't just go into cruise control for the next week and a half, especially with the Brewers and Cardinals on the docket.

I just hope the Reds can hang loss #82 on the Pirates and ensure a 20th straight losing season for Pissburgh. How did we get tricked into thinking they would be a contender again?

[XU 87]

Does anyone still think the Reds got screwed on the Latos trade?

[RealDeal]

On the woooo, Jim Day apparently just tweeted that the players hate it and wish it would stop.

[LadyMuskie]

We were at the game tonight and it is really irritating in person, IMO. All I could think was, when our dogs bark/howl outside, we tell them to stop, and yet now I'm sitting in a stadium full of humans making an equally irritating sound. I could see why the players hate it.

[Jumpy]

Does anyone still think the Reds got screwed on the Latos trade?

I think screwed is too harsh a word, but yes I still think they gave up too much for Latos. They gave up a servicable starter in Volquez as well as two guys that could very well end up bing the linchpins of the Padres offense for years to come. Both Alonso and Grandal have played all year and have proven that they are ready for the big leagues.

Latos turned out to be not as bad as we feared early in the year, but he isn't the dominating #1 that everyone expected when the Reds gave up so much talent, either.

[chico]

I think screwed is too harsh a word, but yes I still think they gave up too much for Latos. They gave up a servicable starter in Volquez as well as two guys that could very well end up bing the linchpins of the Padres offense for years to come. Both Alonso and Grandal have played all year and have proven that they are ready for the big leagues.

Latos turned out to be not as bad as we feared early in the year, but he isn't the dominating #1 that everyone expected when the Reds gave up so much talent, either.

Alonso, while batting a respectable .275, has only 9 home runs in 500 AB's. I know it's in Petco but you need more power from a first baseman these days. Volquez has an ERA of over 4 but if you're going to give Alonso some slack for the lack of power you have to ding Volquez because he's in a pitcher's park. Grnadal may likely be the best of them, but the Reds made a choice between him and Mesoraco. We still don't know about Boxberger.

So far, the trade has worked out well. The Reds have a very nice top of the rotation with Cueto and Latos. Without that trade, our starting pitching is very suspect going into the playoffs (if we even got that far). The players we traded - and the jury's still out in the catchers - were not going to be a part of our future plans, anyway. Latos has always been a second half pitcher and he's peaking at the right time. He's given up 2 runs or less in 5 of his last 6 starts. That's pretty dominant.

I know in a few years we may have a different opinion but for now I'd give the advantage to the Reds because of where we are right now, and I'd give a big advantage to the Reds if they go deep in October.

[ammtd34]

I think screwed is too harsh a word, but yes I still think they gave up too much for Latos. They gave up a servicable starter in Volquez as well as two guys that could very well end up bing the linchpins of the Padres offense for years to come. Both Alonso and Grandal have played all year and have proven that they are ready for the big leagues.

Latos turned out to be not as bad as we feared early in the year, but he isn't the dominating #1 that everyone expected when the Reds gave up so much talent, either.

Where were Alonso and Grandal going to play?

Throw out April and Latos is 12-2 with a 2.8 ERA. He's going to throw 200 innings. Were your expectations higher than that?

[nkymuskie]

I think screwed is too harsh a word, but yes I still think they gave up too much for Latos. They gave up a servicable starter in Volquez as well as two guys that could very well end up bing the linchpins of the Padres offense for years to come. Both Alonso and Grandal have played all year and have proven that they are ready for the big leagues.

Latos turned out to be not as bad as we feared early in the year, but he isn't the dominating #1 that everyone expected when the Reds gave up so much talent, either.

First off Volquez is complete garbage. He has a 4.24 ERA this season and that's with him pitching half his games (hypothetically) at Petco. Petco is probably the best pitchers park in all of baseball. Getting rid of him was a blessing. As far as getting rid of Alonso, tell me where he will play in the Reds lineup in the next 10 years? It's surely not going to be at first base because we have some guy named Votto. Getting rid of Grandal does hurt a bit but that's because Mesoraco has struggled a little more than anticipated. At the time it looked like we gave up our worse of our two pitching prospects.

As far as Latos he is starting to look like a definite #2 if not a #1. He started the season rough but he said as he wasn't comfortable in Cincinnati yet. Since the Allstar break he has a 3.01 ERA. That's pretty freakin good IMO. He'll be at 200+ innings by the end of the season. That's pretty freakin good IMO. The biggest reason that his ERA has come down is that he has learned how to pitch at GABP. He's cut his homeruns against from 17 (really bad) in the first half to 7 (manageable).

Overall I'm very happy with the trade. Did we give up a lot? Yes but we gave up players who didn't have a future with the Reds. Lagos is a surefire #2 and more likely than not a surefire future ace. Oh yeah he's only 24 too.

Go Reds!

[XU 87]

Alonso, while batting a respectable .275, has only 9 home runs in 500 AB's. I know it's in Petco but you need more power from a first baseman these days.

Check out Alonso's power numbers in the minors. He's never been a power hitter. His minor league season high for hr's was 15. He is basically Hal Morris.

Due to his lack of power, he is an average first baseman and you could argue that he is a little below average.

[nkymuskie]

Check out Alonso's power numbers in the minors. He's never been a power hitter. His minor league season high for hr's was 15. He is basically Hal Morris.

Due to his lack of power, he is an average first baseman and you could argue that he is a little below average.

In his 3 seasons in the minors he hit 9, 15, and 12 homeruns. So yeah he never really displayed any serious power. Plus at 25 and having played 3 or 4 seasons of college ball he doesn't seem to project to develop significantly more power although I could be wrong.

[RealDeal]

I think Jocketty traded Alonzo at his peak value. Which is good.

[chico]

Check out Alonso's power numbers in the minors. He's never been a power hitter. His minor league season high for hr's was 15. He is basically Hal Morris.

Due to his lack of power, he is an average first baseman and you could argue that he is a little below average.

I don't know if he's even Hal Morris. At least Morris hit .300. Plus Alonso is a below average defensive player.

So basically we gave up a back of the rotation starter with control issues, a below average first baseman, a minor league closer prospect along with a young catcher who is the only one that looks to be the real thing (but with a small sample size) for a front of the rotation starter who is young and under team control for a few more years.

[Jumpy]

I'm not saying that the Reds should never have given Alonso and Grandal up, I'm just saying they gave up too much for Latos, a borderline #2 whose stats were inflated by a pitcher's park.

I know Grandal and Alonso didn't fit in the Reds plan. They were bound to go. I just wish they hadn't bundled up all the Reds best trade bait and shipped them off together when they over paid for Latos. They paid for a Johhny Cueto... they got a Bronson Arroyo.

[nkymuskie]

I'm not saying that the Reds should never have given Alonso and Grandal up, I'm just saying they gave up too much for Latos, a borderline #2 whose stats were inflated by a pitcher's park.

I know Grandal and Alonso didn't fit in the Reds plan. They were bound to go. I just wish they hadn't bundled up all the Reds best trade bait and shipped them off together when they over paid for Latos. They paid for a Johhny Cueto... they got a Bronson Arroyo.

I don't understand how you can compare him to a Bronson Arroyo? The kid has been dominant the second half of the season. And according to Ammtd he's had a 2.8 ERA if you take out April. I doubt Bronson has ever even had a month with an ERA of 2.8. I love Bronson, but Latos is a much better than Bronson and should only get better.

[ammtd34]

I don't understand how you can compare him to a Bronson Arroyo? The kid has been dominant the second half of the season. And according to Ammtd he's had a 2.8 ERA if you take out April. I doubt Bronson has ever even had a month with an ERA of 2.8. I love Bronson, but Latos is a much better than Bronson and should only get better.

And Latos is making 550k this year, a far cry from Cueto's $5.5 Million or Arroyo's $11 million.

[nuts4xu]

I know Grandal and Alonso didn't fit in the Reds plan. They were bound to go. I just wish they hadn't bundled up all the Reds best trade bait and shipped them off together when they over paid for Latos. They paid for a Johhny Cueto... they got a Bronson Arroyo.

Your point is valid, and Latos has very similar numbers to Bronson Arroyo. However, Arroyo is a work horse and has been a nice piece to build our rotation around since arriving from Boston. We also gave up a few prospects to get Arroyo.

When you are the Reds, you will have a much easier time over paying prospects in a trade for such a pitcher as opposed to overpaying a free agent. I like Latos and while he isn't Nolan Ryan, he has been plenty good enough for the Reds this year. Time will tell if they sent too much talent in exchange for Latos, but it is nice to know the Reds didn't send ALL of their propsects to the Padres. The cupboard is no where close to bare.

[XU 87]

I'm not saying that the Reds should never have given Alonso and Grandal up, I'm just saying they gave up too much for Latos, a borderline #2 whose stats were inflated by a pitcher's park.

I know Grandal and Alonso didn't fit in the Reds plan. They were bound to go. I just wish they hadn't bundled up all the Reds best trade bait and shipped them off together when they over paid for Latos. They paid for a Johhny Cueto... they got a Bronson Arroyo.

I can see your argument. And the Reds took a risk. On the other hand, I think there was a perception at the time that Alonso was a potential all-star player. He wasn't and isn't. The Reds gave up some prospects, but they were just that prospects. And the main prospect, Alonso, showed in the minors that he is a non-power hitting first baseman. I don't want a non-power hitting first baseman.

And as noted above, I would never compare Latos to Arroyo. He's a #2 pitcher and a potential #1 pitcher. On some (many?) staffs, he'd be the ace. And don't forget the economics- he's cheap. I'm sure that was a huge factor.

[ammtd34]

8-2, 2.52 ERA since June 25th. Best in the NL.

[chico]

I'm not saying that the Reds should never have given Alonso and Grandal up, I'm just saying they gave up too much for Latos, a borderline #2 whose stats were inflated by a pitcher's park.

I know Grandal and Alonso didn't fit in the Reds plan. They were bound to go. I just wish they hadn't bundled up all the Reds best trade bait and shipped them off together when they over paid for Latos. They paid for a Johhny Cueto... they got a Bronson Arroyo.

Yes they did give up a lot, but a lot of that was unproven talent. Latos was and is a bona fide front of the rotation starter. And while Arroyo is having a great bounce back season this year, his career ERA is almost a run worse than Latos'. And Latos' stats this year are very good while pitching in a pronounced hitter's park. An ERA in the mid 3's (and been dropping since May) a WHIP of 1.19 and almost 200 k's. And it's only his 4th year in the majors.

Look at his career splits from first half to second half. The guy for whatever reason is a slow starter but lights out in August and September - when you want a guy to be peaking.

Now maybe in 4 years we'll look back in regret when Latos is coming off his second Tommy John and Grandal is starting in the All Star game. But right now the Reds got just what they needed.

[GoMuskies]

I think a lot of Reds fans believe Alonso was the big "give" in the Latos trade. I think Grandal was actually the key piece, and I expect he will have a much better career than Mes. But it will be worth it if Latos continues to be good for another 4-5 years.

Frankly, if the Reds win a World Series this year and Latos plays a key role in the postseason, Latos could quit baseball to become a priest and the trade would be a win for the franchise even if Grandal becomes Johnny Bench.

[Jumpy]

Your point is valid, and Latos has very similar numbers to Bronson Arroyo. However, Arroyo is a work horse and has been a nice piece to build our rotation around since arriving from Boston. We also gave up a few prospects to get Arroyo.

When you are the Reds, you will have a much easier time over paying prospects in a trade for such a pitcher as opposed to overpaying a free agent. I like Latos and while he isn't Nolan Ryan, he has been plenty good enough for the Reds this year. Time will tell if they sent too much talent in exchange for Latos, but it is nice to know the Reds didn't send ALL of their propsects to the Padres. The cupboard is no where close to bare.

I'm not trying to disparage Bronson at all. He has been the steadiest pitcher for the reds over the past 3-4 years. But they didn't sell the farm for him either. We gave up Wily Mo Pena for him. The trade to bring him in was a much better deal than the Latos trade.

[Jumpy]

I think a lot of Reds fans believe Alonso was the big "give" in the Latos trade. I think Grandal was actually the key piece, and I expect he will have a much better career than Mes. But it will be worth it if Latos continues to be good for another 4-5 years.

Frankly, if the Reds win a World Series this year and Latos plays a key role in the postseason, Latos could quit baseball to become a priest and the trade would be a win for the franchise even if Grandal becomes Johnny Bench.

I think this post highlights the underlying difference in opinion that is fueling this debate. There are many people that are happy with winning a championship at any cost. If it means overpaying for that last key piece of the puzzle, so be it. It's the cost of doing business.

My thought is that I would like to see the Reds built into a dynasty. True, Latos is here long term and could very well be a major part of a dynasty team in Cincinnati. I'm just not sold on the idea that they couldn't have gotten more if they had shipped Volquez, Alonso and Grandal off separately.

[chico]

I think this post highlights the underlying difference in opinion that is fueling this debate. There are many people that are happy with winning a championship at any cost. If it means overpaying for that last key piece of the puzzle, so be it. It's the cost of doing business.

My thought is that I would like to see the Reds built into a dynasty. True, Latos is here long term and could very well be a major part of a dynasty team in Cincinnati. I'm just not sold on the idea that they couldn't have gotten more if they had shipped Volquez, Alonso and Grandal off separately.

The Reds didn't need 3 Buicks. They needed a Lexus.

What, too soon?

[XU 87]

I think this post highlights the underlying difference in opinion that is fueling this debate. There are many people that are happy with winning a championship at any cost. If it means overpaying for that last key piece of the puzzle, so be it. It's the cost of doing business.

My thought is that I would like to see the Reds built into a dynasty. True, Latos is here long term and could very well be a major part of a dynasty team in Cincinnati. I'm just not sold on the idea that they couldn't have gotten more if they had shipped Volquez, Alonso and Grandal off separately.

Interesting debate. Would you rather win one world series and then suck for 5 years (Marlins) or be great for 6 years but never win a world series (Braves- although they won one.)?

I doubt they would have gotten very much if they traded the above three players individually. At best, a prospect may get you a player at the end of the year who is going free agent. Volquez would get you very little by himself.

It's difficult for the Reds to be a dynasty with their payroll limitations, although they've got the pieces in place to be pretty good for the next few years.

[Jumpy]

I disagree. I think Walt is more than capable to build a team that rivals or surpasses his Cardinals team in Cincinnati. True, they aren't going to have the money to spend on the biggest free agents in their prime- ala the Yankees, but they have shown that they aren't afraid to spend some cash. In the past few years, they signed Bruce and Philips to big contracts, have kept Arroyo around even though he's making more than 10 mil a year and signed Votto to his mega-deal. He'll, the unconfirmed rumor that came out earlier this season is that they were major players for Pujols in the offseason.

They can't spend 200 mil, but they can strategically spend 85-100 mil and build a team that goes to the playoffs every year and ends up getting hot at the right time, winning maybe one or two Series.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right about not getting much by splitting them up. However, I still contend they could have gotten a higher calibre pitcher. I guess Latos was probably the best available, all things considered, but I wouldn't have minded waiting for the right deal rather than going for the best available at the time.

[XU 87]

Fair statement about Jockety and St. Louis.

Let's assume that there was a better pitcher out there than Latos. But that pitcher probably wasn't going to have a salary of $500,000. Besides the fact that Latos is a pretty good pitcher, his salary made him affordable to the Reds. I doubt they had the funds to spend $10-15 million on one player.

[Juice]

I disagree. I think Walt is more than capable to build a team that rivals or surpasses his Cardinals team in Cincinnati. True, they aren't going to have the money to spend on the biggest free agents in their prime- ala the Yankees, but they have shown that they aren't afraid to spend some cash. In the past few years, they signed Bruce and Philips to big contracts, have kept Arroyo around even though he's making more than 10 mil a year and signed Votto to his mega-deal. He'll, the unconfirmed rumor that came out earlier this season is that they were major players for Pujols in the offseason.

They can't spend 200 mil, but they can strategically spend 85-100 mil and build a team that goes to the playoffs every year and ends up getting hot at the right time, winning maybe one or two Series.

Now that I think about it, you're probably right about not getting much by splitting them up. However, I still contend they could have gotten a higher calibre pitcher. I guess Latos was probably the best available, all things considered, but I wouldn't have minded waiting for the right deal rather than going for the best available at the time.

Trading for Latos is exactly how you win with the Reds' payroll. He is making about a half a million dollars for the next few years. If they traded for a "bigger" name pitcher then they wouldn't be able to afford that pitcher with the current/upcoming contracts.

The Reds should look to the Rays as a model. Stay young and cheap but that is completely dependent on drafting very well. The Rays have been awesome at drafting pitchers (i.e. Hellickson, Price, Moore, etc.). The Reds do have more money to spend than the Rays so they should try to sign long term deals with young guys and vital pieces to the team (Bruce and Votto) while avoiding long term deals with old guys who will regress in the middle of the deal (Phillips).

[Jumpy]

Trading for Latos is exactly how you win with the Reds' payroll. He is making about a half a million dollars for the next few years. If they traded for a "bigger" name pitcher then they wouldn't be able to afford that pitcher with the current/upcoming contracts.

The Reds should look to the Rays as a model. Stay young and cheap but that is completely dependent on drafting very well. The Rays have been awesome at drafting pitchers (i.e. Hellickson, Price, Moore, etc.). The Reds do have more money to spend than the Rays so they should try to sign long term deals with young guys and vital pieces to the team (Bruce and Votto) while avoiding long term deals with old guys who will regress in the middle of the deal (Phillips).

If the Reds were to truly model themselves after the Rays, they wouldn't have made the trade in the first place. They would have kept their young talent and fielded a home grown team.

[Kahns Krazy]

I'm heading to the game today to take in the home regular season finale. With the weather and nothing in particular on the line, I'm expecting a crowd of hundreds.

[XUOWNSUC]

I'm heading to the game today to take in the home regular season finale. With the weather and nothing in particular on the line, I'm expecting a crowd of hundreds.

Any idea as to that they will do if it continues to rain? Will they just keeping waiting until they can get it in - even if that means playing into the night?

[XU 87]

If the Reds were to truly model themselves after the Rays, they wouldn't have made the trade in the first place. They would have kept their young talent and fielded a home grown team.

Then we would have a first baseman who has no speed or power playing left field. We would have two young catchers. And we would have Edison Volquez walking 4-5 people per game and having a 4.50 ERA.

Not only did the Reds get a strong pitcher, but they traded players, other than the relief pitcher, who had no real future with the team.

[nuts4xu]

I'm heading to the game today to take in the home regular season finale. With the weather and nothing in particular on the line, I'm expecting a crowd of hundreds.

I will be there too. I think everyone will go home with a foul ball. The last 2 nights attendance was kinda sad for a first place team.

The forecast on weather.com shows the rain should break up by game time, and we should see the game played without more delays.

This being the last home game of the year, I am sure they will do whatever they can to get this game in.

[Snipe]

Ever since the kids have gone back to school attendance has suffered. Summertime is huge for taking in a ball game. Many people go regardless of whether the team has a shot or not. I have been surprised by the September attendance myself, especially after attending sell outs in July. and August.

I am worried about catching the Nationals. I want the best record in baseball and the #1 seed. That has to happen now. It is a pivotal week for the Redlegs.

[XUOWNSUC]

I'm gonna try to make the game today with my 1 year-old. I'm hoping to buy the $5 seats and move down to behind the dugout.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm gonna try to make the game today with my 1 year-old. I'm hoping to buy the $5 seats and move down to behind the dugout.

Did you go? We went and Little LM got a foul ball! She was super excited. Thankfully, the howling (or whatever it is) didn't happen! The Reds kept it exciting by waiting until the very end to win. Looking forward to the playoffs!

[XUOWNSUC]

Did you go? We went and Little LM got a foul ball! She was super excited. Thankfully, the howling (or whatever it is) didn't happen! The Reds kept it exciting by waiting until the very end to win. Looking forward to the playoffs!

Yep, we went. We sat in the outfield behind Jay Bruce. I like sitting in right field for some reason. We had a great time.

[nuts4xu]

Thankfully, the howling (or whatever it is) didn't happen!

You didn't hear it? The howling started about the 4th inning, and continued sporadically until the end of the game.

I did't have anyone around me doing it, but I implore anyone who does this to make them stop!

It is a huge distraction!!!!!

[Juice]

You didn't hear it? The howling started about the 4th inning, and continued sporadically until the end of the game.

I did't have anyone around me doing it, but I implore anyone who does this to make them stop!

It is a huge distraction!!!!!

http://www.redreporter.com/2012/9/27/3420212/red-reporter-exclusive-interview-with-the-originator-of-the-woooooooo

Here is an interview with the man who started it all. You cannot stop the unstoppable.

[LadyMuskie]

You didn't hear it? The howling started about the 4th inning, and continued sporadically until the end of the game.

I did't have anyone around me doing it, but I implore anyone who does this to make them stop!

It is a huge distraction!!!!!

Honestly, no, I didn't hear it. We were sitting two rows from the field near first base, though, so maybe that's why I didn't hear it.It was loud down there with all of the talking off and on the field. No one sitting around us was doing it (thank God!), and I was admittedly preoccupied with staring at Joey Votto and making sure Little LM didn't get hit in the head with a foul ball. We did hear it Tuesday night and it was extremely irritating. I agree with you, people should encourage others to stop doing it! It sounds ridiculous and takes away from the game.

[X-band '01]

Add another no-no in the Year of the No-Hitter.

Ladies and gentlemen, Homer Bailey!

[BENWAR]

I flipped over to MLB Network after the no no and Harold the groper Reynolds was complaining about the error in the third inning should of been a hit.

[eXdrummer]

I flipped over to MLB Network after the no no and Harold the groper Reynolds was complaining about the error in the third inning should of been a hit.

If the opposing (home) team doesn't score it a hit, it ain't a hit.
Full disclosure: I haven't actually seen the play in question.

[BENWAR]

If the opposing (home) team doesn't score it a hit, it ain't a hit.
Full disclosure: I haven't actually seen the play in question.

I thought the same thing.

[X-band '01]

As the playoffs get set to begin on Friday (maybe Thursday depending on tiebreakers), am I seeing things correctly that nobody in the American League is officially in the playoffs yet? Pretty amazing that all of the top 5 teams in the AL could concievably piss away postseason bids one way or another.

Detroit may be the first team to clinch a bid - it'll also be fun to see if Miguel Cabrera can finish off the Triple Crown this year. He's tied with Josh Hamilton for home runs and leads Joe Mauer by .002 in batting average.

Texas could be the choke artists for 2012; they're losing against the Angels tonight and have a 3-game series at Oakland to finish the season. I don't think the Angels can mathematically win the AL West division b/c of the Rangers-A's series, but they could still get WC #2 if they win out and get help from the A's and Tampa Bay losing.

The Yankees and O's would both clinch with either a win or an Angels loss. Talk about a balanced league.

[Snipe]

I got Marty on and I turned off the TV.

You don't miss anything with Marty on, if anything you miss Marty if you are watching TV.
Marty is the heart and soul of my own heart and soul. He speaks to me. I listen. He is talking right to me, and I take in every word.

I am Snipe, and I approve of this message.

[X-band '01]

It's tougher to do when the TV and radio feeds are out of sync with one another. The Reds did very well considering that Cueto only lasted 6 pitches tonight because of his back injury early on.

Getting a win tonight is huge - a win tomorrow would be gravy going into Great American Ballpark. Now home-field advantage for this round comes into play.

[BENWAR]

Big win for the Reds!!

I hope Cueto will be back for game three.

[Snipe]

We might want to rework the order and only pitch Cueto for game Five. If he is only going to pitch one more game, why pitch him on game three. Why not have him close it out or give him the rest if we win in three or four games?

What a huge win.

[paulxu]

We might want to rework the order and only pitch Cueto for game Five. If he is only going to pitch one more game, why pitch him on game three. Why not have him close it out or give him the rest if we win in three or four games?

What a huge win.

I saw this stat on ESPN, and realized that I have been asleep for over a decade and a half.

The last Reds' postseason win was in 1995. That almost doesn't seem possible.

[Juice]

I saw this stat on ESPN, and realized that I have been asleep for over a decade and a half.

The last Reds' postseason win was in 1995. That almost doesn't seem possible.

I really hope a Pirates fan reads that as he/she is dealing with his/her 20th consecutive losing season.

[fellahmuskie]

I saw this stat on ESPN, and realized that I have been asleep for over a decade and a half.

The last Reds' postseason win was in 1995. That almost doesn't seem possible.

Wanted to rep you, but couldn't. I was 7 in '95 and not much of a fan, so I don't remember that team at all. This is really the first Reds postseason win in my conscious memory. Bizarre. I've been a huge fan since '99, so to enjoy the team's success this year has been surreal. Apart from '99, '10, and now '12 Reds baseball for me has simply been a way to spend summer evenings, then gradually tune out as the weather turns cold. It's so great, but completely foreign, to be invested in OCTOBER:))

[GoMuskies]

I was a sophomore at Xavier and on the grounds crew when the Reds beat the Dodgers in the '95 Division Series (prior to taking an ass-kicking from the Braves in the LCS).

[paulxu]

Put the Giants out of their misery today.
Bring on the Cards or Gnats.

[bigdiggins]

Put the Giants out of their misery today.
Bring on the Cards or Gnats.

Go Giants!!!!! Just tonight though.
I have tickets for Wednesday's game.

[Kahns Krazy]

Top 9. Chapman has retired 2 so far. I like the Reds chances to finish the sweep. /no jinx

[Kahns Krazy]

That went well. Now get Aroldis the win!

[paulxu]

Go Giants!!!!! Just tonight though.
I have tickets for Wednesday's game.

If they blow this, and they are trying, I'm holding you personally responsible.

[paulxu]

Crap. That guy was jogging home on Rolen's error because he thought the out would be simple at first.
I think Rollen had time to go home with the throw.

[X-band '01]

Posey was the one who scored at home - Rolen couldn't have thrown him out with his momentum taking him towards 1st base. Pence was the who cramped up and couldn't move, but fortunate for him he was at 2nd and couldn't advance because of the ball being hit to short.

And now the long wait begins to see who starts Game 4.

[XUOWNSUC]

Go Giants!!!!! Just tonight though.
I have tickets for Wednesday's game.


If they blow this, and they are trying, I'm holding you personally responsible.

Thanks bigdiggins. You better bring home a win tomorrow.

[bigdiggins]

Big night tomorrow. Never been to a playoff game. I will be breaking out the authentic Pete Rose throwback jersey. That should be enough to seal the deal. I'm feeling 5-2.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Disclaimer: Get ready for some GladdenGuy Red's gloom and doom here (and I must admit, I lean to Gladden's feelings on X, even though I haven't posted on the topic), but that loss tonight infuriated me. 2 runs on 3 hits. 2 errors and a base running blunder. I hope this doesn't turn into a 30 for 30 comeback special. Doubt it will...but this loss totally screwed a perfect opportunity for the Reds to figure out their rotation moving forward. If they lose by being beaten, so be it...but they crapped this one away. I think Latos can close the door tomorrow even though he's on 3 days rest after a 57 pitch game 1. But damnit, it shouldn't have come to that. And if Latos loses tomorrow? Cain v. Arroyo in Game 5. Bronson was lights out Sunday night...but 2 great outings in a row? It can happen, but I will be crapping my pants.

And long term this loss sucks. Win tomorrow and that's great...but Arroyo in Game 1 of the NLCS against Cards or Nats? Not what I was wanting to see.

Sorry for the doom and gloom. I just want them to win this whole thing so badly. They made it a lot harder tonight by giving this one away.

Damn!!

[gladdenguy]

That did suck. Lose tomorrow night and I'll start to worry.

[RealDeal]

Disclaimer: Get ready for some GladdenGuy Red's gloom and doom here (and I must admit, I lean to Gladden's feelings on X, even though I haven't posted on the topic), but that loss tonight infuriated me. 2 runs on 3 hits. 2 errors and a base running blunder. I hope this doesn't turn into a 30 for 30 comeback special. Doubt it will...but this loss totally screwed a perfect opportunity for the Reds to figure out their rotation moving forward. If they lose by being beaten, so be it...but they crapped this one away. I think Latos can close the door tomorrow even though he's on 3 days rest after a 57 pitch game 1. But damnit, it shouldn't have come to that. And if Latos loses tomorrow? Cain v. Arroyo in Game 5. Bronson was lights out Sunday night...but 2 great outings in a row? It can happen, but I will be crapping my pants.

And long term this loss sucks. Win tomorrow and that's great...but Arroyo in Game 1 of the NLCS against Cards or Nats? Not what I was wanting to see.

Sorry for the doom and gloom. I just want them to win this whole thing so badly. They made it a lot harder tonight by giving this one away.

Damn!!

Yep, the bats went to sleep again and even homer pitching lights out couldn't win it. Why not walk the guy to get to the pitcher in the last inning? How many pitches can latos throw tomorrow on 3 days rest? This could get really bad.

[Cheesehead]

SurfXu and I will be there in force. Victory will be ours!

[nuts4xu]

I sure hope they pitch Latos. If Leake starts, it means Cueto isn't available again until the World Series.

Latos has been great lately.

[XUOWNSUC]

Disclaimer:

And long term this loss sucks. Win tomorrow and that's great...but Arroyo in Game 1 of the NLCS against Cards or Nats? Not what I was wanting to see.



Doesn't the NLCS start on Sunday? If so, the Reds can start Bailey if they want to in Game 1. Just saying. But yeah, last night sucked and I put the blame squarely on bigdiggins.

[bleedXblue]

Worst move in the history of the franchise today for Baker

I can not stand Dusty Baker

Leake ? WTF, he sucks ?

Now Cueto is out until the WS ?

I would have rolled the dice today with a mish mash of pitchers to protect Cueto and hope to get the W.

He's banking on having Latos tomorrow if we lose today.

Last night was a joke.

We give up 2 hits and LOSE ?

Where is the rookie of the year ?

We need hits and runs. Where is Heisey ?

All the while Rolen and Stubbs bat on the interstates.....AGAIN as they have ALL YEAR.

I loved the Stubbs in center in SF, but NOT in Cincy where we need some run production.

[boozehound]

God Mike Leake sucks.

[bleedXblue]

And Drew Stubbs just STRUCK OUT AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just keep running him out there DUSTY. Imbecile.

It's not like Heisy cant play center field. He's actually pretty damn good.

If I'm him, I ask for a trade in the off season.

[RealDeal]

Will the real Joey Votto please stand up? I guess the knee still isn't right.

[Jumpy]

Worst move in the history of the franchise today for Baker

I can not stand Dusty Baker

Leake ? WTF, he sucks ?

Now Cueto is out until the WS ?

I would have rolled the dice today with a mish mash of pitchers to protect Cueto and hope to get the W.

He's banking on having Latos tomorrow if we lose today.

Last night was a joke.

We give up 2 hits and LOSE ?

Where is the rookie of the year ?

We need hits and runs. Where is Heisey ?

All the while Rolen and Stubbs bat on the interstates.....AGAIN as they have ALL YEAR.

I loved the Stubbs in center in SF, but NOT in Cincy where we need some run production.

I'm sure they made every effort to leave Cueto on the roster, considering he is now ineligible until the WS. They have to know more than we do, and I'm guessing they've learned that he wont be available for a long while. Hell, with an oblique injury, he might not be available for the World Series should they get there.

[Porkopolis]

Hell, with an oblique injury, he might not be available for the World Series should they get there.

Yep. Oblique injuries are an incredible PITA and are easily re-aggravated.

[xsteve1]

God Mike Leake sucks.

To be honest he was put in a tough situation. Left off the roster then put in a game where he probably wasn't mentally ready. I believe it was the right call though as you need your stud at full strength tomorrow. Votto is the guy that concerns me now, two huge RBI chances and nothing when the game was still there to be had.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I am in a dark place right now. Surprised Latos didn't go today. What did he have? The sniffles? Some congestion? At this point, God willing they make it to the NLCS, LeCure is the No. 4 and Leake can come out for long relief. They should have taken Arrendondo off the roster and kept Cueto on the roster.

Another thing that I didn't add to my rant last night...why didn't Dusty have Broxton walk Arias? Base was open, Mota on deck....if Dusty walks Arias, then he forces Bochy to use his last pinch hitter or have Mota hit. Was Dusty asleep at the wheel on that one?

Joey Votto is giving me some uncomfortable Carson Palmer deja vu right now.

Tomorrow...I wouldn't be surprised to see Latos give up a homer to Posey or Sandoval...only give up a run...but Cain be completely dominant and the Reds lose 1-0. God, I hope I'm wrong. Right now, I'm feeling like the Cardinals will be making it further in the post season than the Reds.

Last night infuriated me....everything I thought could go wrong has. And now, Game 5 is tomorrow at 1:00? Great...I won't even get to watch....maybe that's a good thing. Think its crappy that two Game 4's are on later in the day than Reds Game 5.

[paulxu]

Go Giants!!!!! Just tonight though.
I have tickets for Wednesday's game.

Well, I hope you're happy.
I'm dying here. We should have had that game last night.
I didn't even like bringing Chapman in without a lead.
Crap.

[XU 87]

Votto is the guy that concerns me now, two huge RBI chances and nothing when the game was still there to be had.

Votto is now hitting like a leadoff hitter. He gets on base and hits singles. He is hitting with absolutely no power. He has no rbi's in this series. If you're going to hit third, you need to have power. And right now, Votto has no power.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Votto is now hitting like a leadoff hitter. He gets on base and hits singles. He is hitting with absolutely no power. He has no rbi's in this series. If you're going to hit third, you need to have power. And right now, Votto has no power.

Agree...right now, he's a slap hitter. Not good.

I do want to give some props to Sam LeCure.....the guy has shown guts in this series. Again, I say, if somehow the Reds pull it out tomorrow, he should be their No. 4 starter. He grinds and I feel more comfortable with him getting through 5-6 innings than Leake.

[XU 87]

Agree...right now, he's a slap hitter. Not good.



That's exactly what he is right now. He had an at bat about the third inning with two guys on, one out and one strike. And then he slaps at an outside pitch and hits a pop fly to left field. it was horrible hitting, particularly from your supposed best hitter.

I know this will never happen, and it's probably a crazy idea, but based on watching Votto hit the last month (no home runs) I'd almost rather see Frazier play first base.

[bleedXblue]

Agree...right now, he's a slap hitter. Not good.

I do want to give some props to Sam LeCure.....the guy has shown guts in this series. Again, I say, if somehow the Reds pull it out tomorrow, he should be their No. 4 starter. He grinds and I feel more comfortable with him getting through 5-6 innings than Leake.

LeClure should have started today and I would have given him 4-5 innings.......easy decison for me considering Leake hasnt thrown in what 2 weeks or so ? Plus I love LeClure, he's so damn tough.

[bleedXblue]

We're watching Dusty ball. And he's f'd up the last two games IMHO.

Sitting Heisey for the first 4 games is a fuc*&ing joke when STUBBS has sucked all year getting on base.

He sits Frazier (the fuc(*&ng rookie of the year) for ther first 3 games. WTF ?

Runnig Leake out there today AND THEN allowing him to give up addtional runs in the 5th was a total F up.

I can't even begin to understand some of his moves. He's a moron.

Regarding Cueto........you dont take him off the roster unless YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION !!!!! He could be feeling much better next week (if they advance) and pitch late in the NLCS. You never know. But sacrificing him for LEAKE ?????????????????????

[drudy23]

I'm guessing adding Leake was more the GM's call.

[xsteve1]

The booing of Stubbs and Leake today made Reds fans look bad. You'd never get that in St. Louis. Reminded me of the idiots who booed Matta and Chalmers after the St. Joe's gme in 04.

[GoMuskies]

I just happened to be in NYC today, so I went to the Yankees game. Fans booed A-Rod like crazy, and Girardi pinch-hit for him in the 9th with Raul. That seemed to work out well, and I don't think the Yankees fans come out looiking bad. So I gots no issue with Reds fans doing some booing.

[bleedXblue]

I just happened to be in NYC today, so I went to the Yankees game. Fans booed A-Rod like crazy, and Girardi pinch-hit for him in the 9th with Raul. That seemed to work out well, and I don't think the Yankees fans come out looiking bad. So I gots no issue with Reds fans doing some booing.

Reds fans should be booing Dusty Baker for running both of those guys out there yesterday.

It's not their fault, they simply dont have enough talent to be starters in the majors.

[Juice]

We're watching Dusty ball. And he's f'd up the last two games IMHO.

Sitting Heisey for the first 4 games is a fuc*&ing joke when STUBBS has sucked all year getting on base.

He sits Frazier (the fuc(*&ng rookie of the year) for ther first 3 games. WTF ?

Runnig Leake out there today AND THEN allowing him to give up addtional runs in the 5th was a total F up.

I can't even begin to understand some of his moves. He's a moron.

Regarding Cueto........you dont take him off the roster unless YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION !!!!! He could be feeling much better next week (if they advance) and pitch late in the NLCS. You never know. But sacrificing him for LEAKE ?????????????????????

The bigger problems I saw yesterday were using Cairo when you have Rolen, Heisey, and Paul on the bench, and then using Arredondo when you have Hoover, Marshall, Broxton, etc. in the bullpen. Cairo has no business on the roster let alone pinch hitting in important spots.

[danaandvictory]

The booing of Stubbs and Leake today made Reds fans look bad. You'd never get that in St. Louis.

Oh, bullshit. I see where Jay Bruce is already trying to deflect the blame for this gag job on to the paying customers. It's freaking incredible.

St. Louis is not Valhalla. They have their fair share of idiots too. Yankee fans boo one of the greatest players in the history of the game. They booed Jeter for Christ's sake. But when New Yorkers do it, it's just tough love - they are so passionate. When Midwesterners do it it's the height of rudeness.

[Tardy Turtle]

I'm just here for the meltdowns.

[XUOWNSUC]

I'm just here for the meltdowns.

Prepare to be disappointed. The Reds are going to roll today.

[boozehound]

The bigger problems I saw yesterday were using Cairo when you have Rolen, Heisey, and Paul on the bench, and then using Arredondo when you have Hoover, Marshall, Broxton, etc. in the bullpen. Cairo has no business on the roster let alone pinch hitting in important spots.

Your argument is not without validity, but speaking specifically about yesterday Cairo actually did a decent job pinch hitting, and I believe put a runner in scoring position.


Oh, bullshit. I see where Jay Bruce is already trying to deflect the blame for this gag job on to the paying customers. It's freaking incredible.

St. Louis is not Valhalla. They have their fair share of idiots too. Yankee fans boo one of the greatest players in the history of the game. They booed Jeter for Christ's sake. But when New Yorkers do it, it's just tough love - they are so passionate. When Midwesterners do it it's the height of rudeness.

This. Fans boo. It happens. If you don't want to get booed, then don't play like crap.

[XU 87]

This. Fans boo. It happens. If you don't want to get booed, then don't play like crap.

I agree that fans boo. But I don't think Stubbs is going to play better when the hometown fans are booing him and essentially telling him he's playing like crap. If anything, I think it puts even more pressure on him.

If Stubbs wasn't hustling, fine, boo him. But I don't think he's trying to strike out or hit .214. So booing him is counter productive.

[boozehound]

I agree that fans boo. But I don't think Stubbs is going to play better when the hometown fans are booing him and essentially telling him he's playing like crap. If anything, I think it puts even more pressure on him.

If Stubbs wasn't hustling, fine, boo him. But I don't think he's trying to strike out or hit .214. So booing him is counter productive.

I see your point.

My thinking is that these guys get paid a lot of money. Part of what comes with that is getting booed if you are playing like crap. It comes with the territory and you should have thick skin. If people booing you for hitting .214 causes your confidence to crumble then you maybe you don't have what it takes to play pro ball.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Could be worse, I lived in Detroit for a long time and am a lifetime tigers fan and having to watch Leyland leave Valverde in last night was heart breaking. There was no movement on his fastball and he wasn't placing it anywhere except right down the pipe. Of course that would force Leyland to leave him in and let him lose.

[paulxu]

Well, at least we've got the uniform thing going for us.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/12724/the-uni-watch-history-of-the-wishbone-c

[nuts4xu]

The booing of Stubbs and Leake today made Reds fans look bad. You'd never get that in St. Louis. Reminded me of the idiots who booed Matta and Chalmers after the St. Joe's gme in 04.

I am not speaking for those who booed Stubbs, as I wasn't there. I understand the booing, and I think it is booing the decision to play Stubbs as much as anything. Stubbs is fast and Dusty stated he needed his speed to cover the vast outfield of San Fransisco. But in the smaller field here, Heisey has enough speed to play centerfield.

Stubbs is lost at the plate right now and gives you terrible at bats. I would rather have Heisey in the line up and can't for the life of me figure out why Stubbs continues to get playing time. The Reds need an upgrade for Stubbs in the offseason, and should trade him for a bag of chips and a can of Mt Dew if they can get it.

[bleedXblue]

I am not speaking for those who booed Stubbs, as I wasn't there. I understand the booing, and I think it is booing the decision to play Stubbs as much as anything. Stubbs is fast and Dusty stated he needed his speed to cover the vast outfield of San Fransisco. But in the smaller field here, Heisey has enough speed to play centerfield.

Stubbs is lost at the plate right now and gives you terrible at bats. I would rather have Heisey in the line up and can't for the life of me figure out why Stubbs continues to get playing time. The Reds need an upgrade for Stubbs in the offseason, and should trade him for a bag of chips and a can of Mt Dew if they can get it.

Stubbs has NEVER in his time with the Reds given them a full, productive offensive season. He's gone through some good stretches, but has been horribly disappointing. WTF are they doing with him ?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Stubbs has NEVER in his time with the Reds given them a full, productive offensive season. He's gone through some good stretches, but has been horribly disappointing. WTF are they doing with him ?

Waiting it out until Billy Hamilton learns how to play center field.

[nuts4xu]

Seriously, a can of Mt Dew and a bag of chips. I would even take a bag of chips to be named later.

[paulxu]

Seriously, a can of Mt Dew and a bag of chips. I would even take a bag of chips to be named later.

Well...that's different than your normal "bag of" solution.

[paulxu]

OK, the Reds haven't lost 3 in a row at home all year.
ESPN is saying this might be Dusty's finale if they lose.

This feels like the apocalypse.

[bleedXblue]

OK, the Reds haven't lost 3 in a row at home all year.
ESPN is saying this might be Dusty's finale if they lose.

This feels like the apocalypse.

Snakebitten


Losing Cueto is huge and Votto is not himself and wont be again until next year

Deosnt matter if they win or lose today

St. Louis will embarress the Reds

[bleedXblue]

See ya Dusty !!!!!

[Kahns Krazy]

There is a thread in the lounge with a title that sums up my feelin about the 5th inning.

It starts with an f. It ends with uck.

[bleedXblue]

Who buys a 25 million dollar a year WALKMAN ?

The Reds do in Joey Votto

Dude is PAID to swing the bat

[bjf123]

Who buys a 25 million dollar a year WALKMAN ?

The Reds do in Joey Votto

Dude is PAID to swing the bat

Dude is still recovering from surgery. He'll be fine next year, not that it helps us right now. Reds are going down in flames.


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[Juice]

Why the hell did Dusty send Bruce on a 3-2 count with no outs? He gave away an extra out right there.

[BENWAR]

Why the hell did Dusty send Bruce on a 3-2 count with no outs? He gave away an extra out right there.

Why did Ryan Hannigan take a close called third strike knowing the runners were moving.

You have to make contact there.

[chico]

I don't think Hannigan knew the runners were going, judging by the way he looked when Posey threw down to third.

[BENWAR]

The runners on first and second were going on the previous pitch.


You can't take a pitch that close with the runners moving.

[Jumpy]

What an embarrassment. Lose three straight home games to be the first team to lose a division series after being up 2-0. This team needs an overhaul, starting with the manager. Hit and run with Hanigan when you haven't called a hit and run all year? Ridiculous.

[paulxu]

Well, that sucks big time. Great moment to lose 3 in a row for the first time at home all season.

OK DC, time for the Gnats to put down the Cards. (sorry Go)

[Porkopolis]

I'll be really surprised if Dusty does anything other than ride off into the sunset.

[gladdenguy]

Cincinnati professional sports.....losers

[Jumpy]

One thing you can count on... You put the reds or bengals in a pressure situation and they will fold. Always. It's the curse of the Cincinnati sports fan.

[Nigel Tufnel]

One thing you can count on... You put the reds or bengals in a pressure situation and they will fold. Always. It's the curse of the Cincinnati sports fan.

I've been saying this for the past couple of days....only problem is that I've said it repeatedly to my wife and one of the lawyers I work with...only problem....they are both from Cleveland. They both look at me with this, "would you please quit bitching" look. Guess they have a point...it could be worse. It still sucks major ass though. I knew after that Game 3 debacle that it would come back to bite the Reds in the ass. Of course, it did. What made matters even more painful was that the Reds put the tying or winning run at the plate the last 4 innings and got 1 run out of it.

I'm gonna go get drunk now.

[XU 87]

I hate to say it, but the Reds choked.

And Latos showed great immaturity out there when giving up 6 runs in one inning. He should have given up 2, but it looked liked he just lost it when Cozart made the stupid error. I was at the game, but I saw the tv monitor where after Latos was taken out it looked like he was complaining to Arroyo about the umpire. Really?

The bottom line- Latos sucked. And the worst part is that he was pitching well but couldn't/didn't handle the adversity.

Of course, it would have helped if our manager didn't make stupid decisions.

[chico]

Latos apparently was yelling at the home plate ump after he was pulled. He was upset with the calls he thought he should have gotten. He let that get to him, which is unacceptable, especially in a deciding game. Dusty should have sent Price out there to calm him down, or else pulled him.

[X-band '01]

There is a thread in the lounge with a title that sums up my feelin about the 5th inning.

It starts with an f. It ends with uck.

What does Friar Tuck have to do with today's loss?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Latos apparently was yelling at the home plate ump after he was pulled. He was upset with the calls he thought he should have gotten. He let that get to him, which is unacceptable, especially in a deciding game. Dusty should have sent Price out there to calm him down, or else pulled him.

Completely agree...my buddy and i were watching the game and in the fifth inning, I kept saying, "Quit getting pissy about the calls..." It totally got into Latos' head. They were borderline calls, but most appeared to be balls according to the strike zone grid. Regardless, Latos got out of sorts. I would have liked to see Price come out to the mound before he did. The announcers, who were horrible, were talkig about how Latos problem was that he was a bit of headcase.....obviously Price knows that. Just wish he or Dusty would have tried to calm him down before the wheels completely came off.

I'm sure its frustrating for a pitcher who is grinding to not get the calls he thinks he should get....still....you can't pout about it and let it affect you. Latos let it get to him. That...among many other things...cost the Reds.

[bjf123]

I think the ump did have a moving strike zone. However, the pitcher needs to live with it, just like basketball players have to adjust to how the ref is calling fouls. Latos didn't do that today.


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[Snipe]

So close you could just taste it. I am one bitter fan.

On the bright side though, I am getting better at not yelling at the kids for any odd reason when my team doesn't do well.

Humbug.

I was listening to the radio on the hit and run pitch and Marty calls ball four, then reverses himself and tells me it is a double play. How deflating was that. I was thinking, ball four, bases loaded and nobody out, and in the next instant my hopes are in shambles. And yet we brought the tying run to the plate in each of the last four innings, and the winning run to the plate in the 9th. I thought Bruce was going to answer my prayers.

Now I am despondent and bitter. If Jay Bruce would have hammered that ball out of the park and into the river for a 9th inning Reds win, this town would be on fire.



“Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are, "It might have been.”
― Kurt Vonnegut

[bigdiggins]

I am the Steve Bartman of the Xavierhoops board.