Future of One-and-Done Rule

[blueblob06]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8101090/the-unknown-future-nba-one-done-rule-men-college-basketball

Saw this ESPN.com article today, very interesting.

Here's what really caught my attention:

Pitino worries that everything will change in 2016, regardless of what the NBA decides in the coming years. That's the year that academic standards will change for incoming freshmen.

The minimum GPA will move from 2.0 to 2.3, after the NCAA's Division I board of directors approved the new standards in May. Prospects will have to complete 10 of their 16 core classes by the time they start their senior seasons of high school. Forty percent of last season's freshman football players would not have qualified to compete based on the new standards, according to an NCAA study conducted in the fall.

The new standards will also impact SAT requirements, currently assessed on a sliding scale. An athlete with an SAT score of 820 will be required to achieve a 2.95 GPA in his core classes. Those who don't meet the new guidelines will be sidelined as "academic redshirts" during their first seasons.

And if it's tougher to qualify, Pitino said, high school players will consider their alternatives to college. They might go to Europe for a year. Or they could enter the NBDL.

That makes me curious, with these higher academic standards coming into play, will this benefit schools like Xavier who already have relatively high standards? Also, I have no idea on this but have the more highly-ranked guys that we've been getting recently been in any better academically than other big college programs' recruits? (i.e. have we been lowering our academic standard for basketball players vs. non student-athletes?) Just curious everyone's take on this. Thanks.

[94GRAD]

Our standards aren't really that high. We usually have a player ever year that doesn't qualify or has trouble qualifying.

[boozehound]

94Grad is right. We dramatically lower our standards for basketball players (just like almost every other major D1 program does).

I think it would be very interesting to see these new rules come into effect. I wonder what something like this would do to College Football?

[blueblob06]

That's what I was figuring, just wanted to hear from others that this is the case. Thanks.

Seems like a giant change if this rule would've made 40% of freshmen ineligible in football last year (so the article claimed); that's huge.

[xudash]

The difference could be in Xavier's culture for student-athletes and the resources and focus it places on helping those athletes meet the student side of their obligations.

To that end, we should continue to attract high level athletes who may or may not require learning assistance who otherwise recognize the value of receiving a college degree.

If the potential answers to the question are: will hurt the program; will be neutral in effect; and will benefit the program, because of Xavier's existing practices in the student-athlete area, then I would think the outcome is likely to fall somewhere between the second and third answer.

[blobfan]

So, we ID a kid in high school and he/she has to meet standards to get an athletic scholarship but we aren't allowed to provide resources to help the student meet our standards? Why not? Schools give other career specific scholarships to kids that attend career specific programs as high school students. Why can't we do that for athletes? Isn't that better for the STUDENT?!? I'd love to see universities vying to get prospective students into summer academic programs in hopes of wooing them. Wouldn't that be a good thing?

[94GRAD]

The difference could be in Xavier's culture for student-athletes and the resources and focus it places on helping those athletes meet the student side of their obligations.

To that end, we should continue to attract high level athletes who may or may not require learning assistance who otherwise recognize the value of receiving a college degree.

If the potential answers to the question are: will hurt the program; will be neutral in effect; and will benefit the program, because of Xavier's existing practices in the student-athlete area, then I would think the outcome is likely to fall somewhere between the second and third answer.

This

[nuts4xu]

We graduate our players, this can not be disputed. Xavier makes exceptions for students other than athletes/basketball players. I had to go through the (now defunct) Bridge Program to get into the school.

Xavier has always taken a chance on students with the will, desire, and general means to get through their cirriculum.

I have no issue with Xavier taking a One-and-Done, or multiple One-and-Done's. If we can pull that kind of talent, I like our chances to compete for the NC. I don't see Xavier accepting a kid who is well below our academic standards, even if it was for a one-and-done. It could happen, but I certainly can't endorse this either.

[Hudson]

I don't see Xavier accepting a kid who is well below our academic standards, even if it was for a one-and-done. It could happen, but I certainly can't endorse this either.

Can you define "our academic standards"? I can't imagine Justin Martin passing any academic standards. Let's be honest, when it comes to top D1 players it is all about basketball. Not that I have a problem with that.

We put them in classes they can succeed in, put them in classes with athlete friendly professors, give them free tutoring, and make them take a bunch of summer classes. All in the name of basketball, and it is great, it works. This is what premiere D1 basketball is all about. This isn't the Patriot League, and I'm glad it isn't.

However the only time "academic standards" come into play with a recruit is considering if he is worth taking an academic redshirt.

[xubrew]

That's what I was figuring, just wanted to hear from others that this is the case. Thanks.

Seems like a giant change if this rule would've made 40% of freshmen ineligible in football last year (so the article claimed); that's huge.

It won't have that much of an impact, at least not at major programs. Most football players at major programs redshirt their freshman year anyway.

There is some give and take. the standards for initial eligibility will be higher, but the standards for "partial qualifiers' (which technically don't exist anymore, but practically do) are lower. If you didn't meet initial eligibility before, you lost that year (barring a waiver, of course). Now, you have the option of being an "academic redshirt."

Xavier's issues with initial eligiblity are well documented, to put it nicely. I don't see this helping us if we are having the trouble we're having meeting the current standard.

[xubrew]

So, we ID a kid in high school and he/she has to meet standards to get an athletic scholarship but we aren't allowed to provide resources to help the student meet our standards? Why not? Schools give other career specific scholarships to kids that attend career specific programs as high school students. Why can't we do that for athletes? Isn't that better for the STUDENT?!? I'd love to see universities vying to get prospective students into summer academic programs in hopes of wooing them. Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Colleges can (and should) communicate with the high schools, but that's really all they can do. Anything else would fall under the category of improper benefits for recruits. Besides, if you do identify them and give them resources, they could still go someplace else.

One of the issues (not the only one, but a common one) is that high schools simply are not aware of initial eligiblity standards. High school guidence counselors don't know the first thing about initial eligibility, and you really can't expect them to. They have case loads of 500 students, and many of those kids have a lot on their plate. There are multiple cases where capable students don't meet initial eligibility simply because they didn't take enough core classes. The NCAA has to consider it a core class. The high school may say the class is core, but if the NCAA says it isn't, then it doesn't count. You literally have to sit down and cross reference the kid's transcript to make sure they are in the right classes, and then you need to be in contact with the high school.

Some schools and athletic departments do a much better job of that than others. I'll just leave it at that.

[Snipe]

Can you define "our academic standards"? I can't imagine Justin Martin passing any academic standards. Let's be honest, when it comes to top D1 players it is all about basketball. Not that I have a problem with that.

We put them in classes they can succeed in, put them in classes with athlete friendly professors, give them free tutoring, and make them take a bunch of summer classes. All in the name of basketball, and it is great, it works. This is what premiere D1 basketball is all about. This isn't the Patriot League, and I'm glad it isn't.

However the only time "academic standards" come into play with a recruit is considering if he is worth taking an academic redshirt.

I can't speak to Justin Martin, and I would not want to single out any single player. Justin Martin, like every other kid needs to finish his academic business and make himself a college graduate, and I have confidence in our kids.

I know we have had kids in the past that barely missed qualifying. In many of those instances, they thought that they were qualified and then found out by the NCAA that they were not.

I think it is important to note that many people do the minimum expected of them. Some studies have suggested that B students do B student work whether they are with a high group or a low group. They see themselves as B students, and they are comfortable with that. They work as hard as they have too to meet expectations. Same with C students too. People do enough to get by. I could have gotten an A in every course I took at Xavier. I didn't. I was comfortable with that. It is not like I took rocket science or nuclear physics at XU. No course was out of my reach, but it really didn't interest me like chasing tail. Your mileage may vary. This happens to everyone in some degree. Now some people are so gifted that they don't have to work as hard, but just being a genius doesn't give you straight As. Even they have to do the work, and if they don't they don't get it.

To put it in the terms of my favorite George Bush quote, it is the soft bigotry of low expectations. Every time they raise standards for qualification, the basketball recruits tend to raise their level of output to meet them. Sure, we have people that still don't qualify, but most kids meet the standards. I applaud raising them higher, and I predict that college bound black basketball players will raise their level of academic play to meet those challenges. They want to play ball, and they will do what it takes to make it so. I say raise the standards. It will make them better people, and they will be better off for it.

John Thompson the elder complained how racist it was to raise the standards on all those poor black youth 20 something years ago. It was an intense debate. But guess what, they raised the standards and all the kids raised their standards too to meet the challenge. Those kids want to play college ball, and they will do what it takes. Maybe it is not racist when we raise the standards. Maybe it is racist that we have such low standards for blacks.

[Olsingledigit]

I find the Justin Martin comment to be out of place. What does the writer know that none of the rest of us know about Martin? What I know is that he came from a program and coach - Lawrence North Highschool in Indy and Coach Keiver - that doesn't give a damn about their student athletes, but only about winning games and championships for their school. Will Caudle was from there also - remember his similar issue. I believe we should not make a comment like that about Justin without more facts.

[nuts4xu]

Can you define "our academic standards"? I can't imagine Justin Martin passing any academic standards.

Just curious, do you know Justin Martin? This is a bold statement otherwise, and quite condescending. I can't quantify specific academic standards for Xavier, but the standards for basketball players apply to our general student population. We have students at different levels of intelligence. Xavier will help anyone who seeks out the help needed to succeed in their studies.


We put them in classes they can succeed in, put them in classes with athlete friendly professors, give them free tutoring, and make them take a bunch of summer classes. All in the name of basketball, and it is great, it works.

Did you go to Xavier? Because this was the same road I took to reaching my degree. I wasn't the best student in the world, so I sought out professors that I felt gave me the best chance to get through the course. Xavier offered free tutoring to anyone that asked for it when I was there, has this changed? I also took summer classes to allow for a more workable class load during the school year. I actually wanted to take some of my more difficult classes in the summer, because the grading was easier. Summer classes enabled me to work a bunch of hours during the school year and I still graduated in 4 years. I was a manager for the basketball team, not a player, and I worked out my cirriculum without the help of Sr Rose. So I am not sure I understand how Xavier does all this stuff "all in the name of basketball". If you need tutoring, see an academic advisor.

I get your point, and we certainly do what we can to keep our athletes eligible. But so far, I haven't heard of anything Xavier does for its basketball players, that isn't offered to the general student body.

[xubrew]

Just to clarify, just because a player doesn't meet initial eligibility does not necessarily mean they are a substandard student.

You could be a 3.9 student who passed AP chemistry and physics in high school, but if you didn't take four credits of English, you are not eligible. You can get into just about any university in the country, but if you don't have the right core classes, you're still ineligible as far as the NCAA is concerned.

The most common reason players receive waivers that enable them to basically be a partial qualifier (ie Justin Martin) is because they are deemed to be a capable student who simply didn't take the right classes to meet initial eligibility. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but I am saying that just becasue a player doesn't qualify doesn't mean the university has lax admission standards. It's wrong to assume that's what happened in Martin's case. After all, he was allowed to practice and receive scholarship aid, so he was deemed to be "partial" qualifier.

[Hudson]

Just curious, do you know Justin Martin? This is a bold statement otherwise, and quite condescending. I can't quantify specific academic standards for Xavier, but the standards for basketball players apply to our general student population. We have students at different levels of intelligence. Xavier will help anyone who seeks out the help needed to succeed in their studies.



Did you go to Xavier? Because this was the same road I took to reaching my degree. I wasn't the best student in the world, so I sought out professors that I felt gave me the best chance to get through the course. Xavier offered free tutoring to anyone that asked for it when I was there, has this changed? I also took summer classes to allow for a more workable class load during the school year. I actually wanted to take some of my more difficult classes in the summer, because the grading was easier. Summer classes enabled me to work a bunch of hours during the school year and I still graduated in 4 years. I was a manager for the basketball team, not a player, and I worked out my cirriculum without the help of Sr Rose. So I am not sure I understand how Xavier does all this stuff "all in the name of basketball". If you need tutoring, see an academic advisor.

I get your point, and we certainly do what we can to keep our athletes eligible. But so far, I haven't heard of anything Xavier does for its basketball players, that isn't offered to the general student body.

I guess you're right, I don't know enough about Justin's academic red shirt to comment on it. I was under the impression that he was forced to red shirt because he did not fulfill the classes necessary to begin the Xavier curriculum. I never considered that might not be his fault. EDIT: However I don't believe a regular student would be given such an opportunity, with the same circumstances.

I did go to Xavier, but I don't remember free tutoring, maybe I missed out.

All I'm saying is that once a basketball player is in the door Xavier works very hard to help them succeed. However the door is pretty wide open.