Question for Lawyers re: Title IX

[xubrew]

I am not a lawyer. I have an elementary understanding of the law that allows me to get by in what it is that I do, but I'm not an expert. My inquiry is this...

In the ongoing debate about whether or not to pay student athletes, IF student-athlettes were paid a stipend or sallary, they would be considered employees of the university, and would therefore no longer have any impact whatsoever on Title IX.

Am I correct in thinking that??

thanks in advance...

[drudy23]

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night:

I'm guessing paying athletes some sort of stipend would not allow said university to ignore Title IX...call me crazy.

The bill is in the mail.

[GoMuskies]

I am a lawyer. How do you know for sure? Because of my answer: It depends.

Granted, in this case I have absolutely no idea what it depends on.

[XU 87]

I think it's a gray area which will depend on the facts and circumstances of the case. On the one hand, and based on the current and available information as I understand it, Title IX could apply. On the other hand, it may not. Accordingly, I may have to research this issue, but I as note above, my research may not be definitive as to this issue. Depending on what my research uncovers, and depending on the possibility that the facts, issues and case law may change, I reserve the right to amend, supplement or change my findings.

[CSS85]

I think it's a gray area which will depend on the facts and circumstances of the case. On the one, and based on the current and available information as I understand it, Title IX could apply. On the other hand, it may night. Accordingly, I may have to research this issue, but I as note above, my research may not be definitive as to this issue. Depending on what my research uncovers, and depending on the possibility that the facts, issues and case law may change, I reserve the right to amend, supplement or change my findings.

Your answer is too straightforward to be a lawyer, so I deduce that you are a rather new lawyer, if in fact you are a lawyer at all. A real lawyer would have been much more circumspect and not lead to such a definite conclusion before the junior lawyers and paralegals could bill hours errrr research and analyze the various possibilities.

[wkrq59]

I am definitely NOT a lawyer, but I believe from past situations Title 9 merely says that female university students must have the same OPPORTUNITIES to participate in intercollegiate athletics as their male counterparts. If 85 football players have scholarships or more correctly grants-in-aid 85 female students must be offered the same scholarship athletic opportunities. In essence, both groups of students are being paid in the form of room, books, board and tuition. I believe both groups are considered employees of the university in that if they are injured while playing in their sport, workmen's comp comes into play. I also think as employees of the university their health care coverage comes into play. I think here have been at least half-dozen cases where this has been challenged in court. The one aspect of Title 9 where things aren't equal is travel although at some of the larger state schools in the BCS conferences the women also fly to and from games on chartered planes or planes furnished by well-to-do boosters or alums. Again, I have no legal knowledge of this, just occasions where these things have been discussed among news men and women at tournaments etc. :D

[wkrq59]

Your answer is too straightforward to be a lawyer, so I deduce that you are a rather new lawyer, if in fact you are a lawyer at all. A real lawyer would have been much more circumspect and not lead to such a definite conclusion before the junior lawyers and paralegals could bill hours errrr research and analyze the various possibilities.

CSS85, I assure you 87 is a lawyer and he is no clerk or novice. As the man said, 'A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep or taste not the Phyrigian Spring.' :p:D

[XULucho27]

This whole thread is out of order.

[UCGRAD4X]

I object to this thread on the grounds that it is objectionable.

..and because I have nothing of any value or intelligence to add to the discussion...obviously.

[STL_XUfan]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/287/322/3a9.jpg

[xubrew]

I have a clear understanding now. I think I also have the distinct honor of starting what is quite possibly the most irrelevant thread in the history of the internet.

[joe titan]

Clearly not employees; the employment relationship is not made by the fact some stipend is rendered.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think I also have the distinct honor of starting what is quite possibly the most irrelevant thread in the history of the internet.

Yeah but nobody cares that it's irrelevant.

[STL_XUfan]

Clearly not employees; the employment relationship is not made by the fact some stipend is rendered.

Bold choice, you just commented on a thread asking for opinions from lawyers with an absolute. I foresee a dangerous round of the Socratic method coming out soon.

[xu95]

I have a clear understanding now. I think I also have the distinct honor of starting what is quite possibly the most irrelevant thread in the history of the internet.

But how many tickets would you sell for a game in Ireland?

[xubrew]

But how many tickets would you sell for a game in Ireland?

Probably around 38,000

[Xpectations]

I think I also have the distinct honor of starting what is quite possibly the most irrelevant thread in the history of the internet.

I can assure you that's not the case--not even the most irrelevant threat on this forum.

You have a long way to go to achieve that distinction.

Plus, this has been covered.

[xudash]

There is a financial/HR answer to this.

Employees execute certain paperwork that includes, among other documents W-4's, allowing the employer to withhold payroll taxes from the employee's pay.

Those services for which an employee is hired can otherwise be provided, in many cases, by a contractor, who would receive a 1099 for income received.

HR law is complicated. Intent and scope of services may come into play, regarding status and treatment.

Scholarships are annual agreements aren't they? I could see a strong argument for contractor treatment. Great question actually, since these universities already are providing health care services to athletes.

[GoMuskies]

xudash, you should go to law school. You've got potential.

Some vague definition of why "it depends". Check
Some rudimentary law (at least half accurate). Check
"It's complicated". Check
"Good question". Check

After this conversation, you could justify hours and hours of billing researching the answer. Well done.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm questioning how good some of our attorneys are since none of them asked for, at least, a 10% retainer before answering in some vague fashion.

[X-band '01]

I'm questioning how good some of our attorneys are since none of them asked for, at least, a 10% retainer before answering in some vague fashion.

Maybe this falls under "pro bono" work in their field.

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm questioning how good some of our attorneys are since none of them asked for, at least, a 10% retainer before answering in some vague fashion.

Great Stuff. Good laugh. Reps.:D:D:D

[xudash]

xudash, you should go to law school. You've got potential.

Some vague definition of why "it depends". Check
Some rudimentary law (at least half accurate). Check
"It's complicated". Check
"Good question". Check

After this conversation, you could justify hours and hours of billing researching the answer. Well done.

GM, thanks, but I'm covered. I'm married to an equity partner of one of Atlanta's most prestigious law firms.

Corporate law from large corporate clients with big, long-term projects is absolutely a smart way to go through life son. They may pound you a little for a lowered billing rate per hour, but it still adds up.

Frankly, knowing what I know now, I wish I had gone to law school.

[XULucho27]

GM, thanks, but I'm covered. I'm married to an equity partner of one of Atlanta's most prestigious law firms.

Corporate law from large corporate clients with big, long-term projects is absolutely a smart way to go through life son. They may pound you a little for a lowered billing rate per hour, but it still adds up.

Frankly, knowing what I know now, I wish I had gone to law school.

I don't regret going to law school but I would not recommend it to anyone. Last three years have sucked, hard.

[xudash]

I don't regret going to law school but I would not recommend it to anyone. Last three years have sucked, hard.

Remember, due to my generally undisclosed age, I was stating that in the past tense; a years-ago point of view. I'm not sure law school is such a great move today.

Perhaps a top school and a top-of-the-class performance with law review still makes it a good track, but I respect that things have changed in the profession.

[GoMuskies]

Corporate law from large corporate clients with big, long-term projects is absolutely a smart way to go through life son.


It's actually really awful. Being married to someone from big-firm corporate life is actually the way to go. Well done!

[GoMuskies]

I don't regret going to law school but I would not recommend it to anyone. Last three years have sucked, hard.

I loved law school. Beats the hell out of working! (other than one day per month)

[xudash]

It's actually really awful. Being married to someone from big-firm corporate life is actually the way to go. Well done!

Thank you very little.

[XULucho27]

I loved law school. Beats the hell out of working! (other than one day per month)

I dislike the people. I dislike many of the professors. I also dislike that it in no way prepares you for the actual practice of law.

But I don't regret it. It's weird. I really like the law; I really dislike law school.

[GoMuskies]

Thank you very little.

???

[GoMuskies]

I dislike the people.

Oh yeah, lawyers (and especially law students) as a group generally suck. I just found a good group I liked to hang out with, so that worked out. I certainly enjoyed the flexibility that student life provided that work does not so much provide.

[xudash]

???

Sorry. I'm channelling Chevy Chase from Caddyshack as I sit here, watching The Players.

That was one of his lines from the movie.