SucKS at the Public Trough

[Masterofreality]

In USA Today this morning there is a cover story about how some schools dig deep to be competitive. That "institution" across town is mentioned. Seems as if they are trying to be too big for their britches and are relying on the public trough to keep them afloat.

Some excerpts:

"...And then there are the Cincinnatis of the world: lower-revenue programs in power conferences depending on institutional funds to help them keep coaches."

And this:

"Cinncinnati of the Big East reports on its NCAA financial documents that its program receives no student fees. But the university's support of athletics has risen from $10.7 million in 2007-2008 to $14.7 million in 2010-2011. Even with that subsidy, the program reported an annual deficit of nearly $1 million that increased its cumulative operating deficit to $33.9 million.

The Borecats are paying Sippin Mick $1.25 million a year with a $100,000 guaranted annual increase.

As a taxpayer in the State of Ohio, I am grossly offended that my tax dollars are being wasted so friviously. I'm writing to my State Senator. If Ohio needs to save money, how about stopping the flow of money to an obviously decript program? :p

[xudash]

They'll most likely never truly get there. They're boxed in by their attendance and facilities; they can't get to the revenue base that is needed to sustain true high-level success. Check out where they land in attendance rankings and some of the company they keep:

67. Hawaii .................................................. ................ 8 298,486 37,311
68. Northwestern...................................... ............. 6 218,696 36,449
69. Cincinnati .................................................. ......... 7 245,472 35,067
70. San diego St................................................ ...... 7 238,930 34,133
71. Fresno St. .................................................. .......... 7 238,841 34,120
72. Vanderbilt........................................ ................... 7 232,885 33,269
73. boise St................................................ ................ 6 199,611 33,269
74. Navy.............................................. ........................ 5 163,266 32,653
75. Houston .................................................. ............ 6 190,366 31,728

Paul Brown stadium isn't the answer. Not with UC's schedule.

[bobbiemcgee]

So every time you pay the ticket tax on your X seat you are helping the state pay Mick?:mad:

[XUglow]

As to Mick, I would have to look at UC basketball as a P/L center and see if he justifies the high price tag. UC basketball should be in the black even with the high salary. They have had attendance issues for a few years, so who knows...

If the AD reports to me, I am not going to let him run a deficit. Tossing $14.7M into the kitty is being generous enough. There is no need to run additional deficits.

[Kahns Krazy]

Cinncinnati of the Big East reports on its NCAA financial documents that its program receives no student fees. But the university's support of athletics has risen from $10.7 million in 2007-2008 to $14.7 million in 2010-2011. Even with that subsidy, the program reported an annual deficit of nearly $1 million

Um, If there's no revenue and the budget is arbitrary, isn't the university's support of athletics just $15.7 million?

[Muskie91]

I was shocked by how little ND pays Brey. I wonder if private schools funnel money to the coaches that isn't reported.

[coasterville95]

Do the stated figures include all the extras, you know they shoe deal, the jersey deal, the radio show, the television show, the incentives, (Coach of Year, conference champ, NCAA tourney success, etc).

Agree that for UC Paul Brown Stadium isn't the ultimate answer, it may be a part of the solution, however. I think for one of the PBS games last year they pulled roughly 40k or just a hair over what they could put into Nippert. Not sure how the math on that falls after they pay rent on PBS, and the fact that I'm sure the Bengals and/or the county take all the parking, food and beer money at PBS.

Now the West Virgina game, when they were riding high (until the QB injury in the 2nd quarter of said game) I think they put 50k or so into PBS, so that game probably made sense to be held at PBS.

A lot of money left on the table in terms of empty seats for basketball games at 5/3rd however.

[Mrs. Garrett]

They'll most likely never truly get there. They're boxed in by their attendance and facilities; they can't get to the revenue base that is needed to sustain true high-level success. Check out where they land in attendance rankings and some of the company they keep:

67. Hawaii .................................................. ................ 8 298,486 37,311
68. Northwestern...................................... ............. 6 218,696 36,449
69. Cincinnati .................................................. ......... 7 245,472 35,067
70. San diego St................................................ ...... 7 238,930 34,133
71. Fresno St. .................................................. .......... 7 238,841 34,120
72. Vanderbilt........................................ ................... 7 232,885 33,269
73. boise St................................................ ................ 6 199,611 33,269
74. Navy.............................................. ........................ 5 163,266 32,653
75. Houston .................................................. ............ 6 190,366 31,728

Paul Brown stadium isn't the answer. Not with UC's schedule.

Wow. Northwestern plays in a high school gym. I literally play in gyms like northwestern's in high school.

[JTG]

I was shocked by how little ND pays Brey. I wonder if private schools funnel money to the coaches that isn't reported.

They have always been notoriously cheap, telling their coaches " it is a priveledge for you to coach here ". Friend of mine was on the faculty, left for Mich State, because he said ND was world class cheapskates.

[xubrew]

As to Mick, I would have to look at UC basketball as a P/L center and see if he justifies the high price tag. UC basketball should be in the black even with the high salary. They have had attendance issues for a few years, so who knows...

If the AD reports to me, I am not going to let him run a deficit. Tossing $14.7M into the kitty is being generous enough. There is no need to run additional deficits.

UC has recently cut programs. They had a really good men's track program that got the axe. Chances are the tax dollars are going to sports other than football and basketball. As poor as the attendance is in basketball, the revenue from basketball is still good enough to support itself. As for everything else, it's not as easy to balance as you think. If you cut the funding for men's basketball, you may end up with a bigger deficit. If basketball isn't winning and ends up producing less revenue than what it currently does, then you end up with even less money to spend elsewhere and are faced with needing a bigger subsidy from the university.


Um, If there's no revenue and the budget is arbitrary, isn't the university's support of athletics just $15.7 million?

Maybe, but not necessarily. I don't know the exact figures, and I'm not going to make any effort at all to look them up, but say they spend $2 million on men's basketball, and make $6 million (Again, I have no idea what the actual figures are). Now, say they spend $18.7 million on everything else and make nothing. That's an overall budget of $20.7 million that generated a total of $6 million in revenue, and required a subsidy from the university of $14.7 million (if my math is correct. If it's not, you still get the idea).


My point is, it could be that basketball is actually reducing the deficiit, not increasing it.

[XUFan09]

Even if they are running a deficit of that level, the overall university could be making more money from the exposure than the program is losing internally. Just speculating, but it could be a justified deficit.

[wkrq59]

Look, one of the reasons UC does not make more money on basketball is because they can't afford to schedule home-and-home games that require a major guarantee so they can only buy games for $50,000 to $75,000. Problem is they don't and won't draw flies because people won't pay to see crap, I don't give a damn how hyped their program is. There is a reason games against Purdue, Gonzaga, Vanderbilt, Georgia and most league games sell out in Cintas and games against Presbyterian et al damn near go dark in 5third mausoleum with its bad seats and lousy configuration. :eek::confused::(

[paulxu]

and games against Presbyterian et al damn near go dark in 5third mausoleum with its bad seats and lousy configuration. :eek::confused::(

Why would anyone pay real money to watch the bearkittens lose to Presbyterian?

[BandAid]

Why would anyone pay real money to watch the bearkittens lose to Presbyterian?

If I knew beforehand they were going to lose to a team called the Blue Hose...Ya, I probably would've purchased tickets and attended the game.

Then again, I'm not a UC fan.

[LadyMuskie]

If I knew beforehand they were going to lose to a team called the Blue Hose...Ya, I probably would've purchased tickets and attended the game.

Then again, I'm not a UC fan.

This is an interesting idea. Maybe next year, we should look over uc's schedule and determine which loss will be most humiliating for them, buy a block of tickets and go enjoy ourselves at the "game".

[coasterville95]

Well, we can go watch them play Fordham in football. No, seriously.

A UC fan I know took a look at the UC football schedule for 2012, turned to me and said "If you thought our basketball schedule was bad, wait till you see this"

Losing to the Fordham Rams would qualify as being pretty humiliating...

[GoMuskies]

Now, would losing to Fordham or Delaware State be more humiliating? Because UC plays them both this year...

[Juice]

Now, would losing to Fordham or Delaware State be more humiliating? Because UC plays them both this year...

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the NCAA make a rule that only one of those wins would count toward their win total for bowl eligibility?

[xubrew]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the NCAA make a rule that only one of those wins would count toward their win total for bowl eligibility?

You are not wrong.

I don't think Fordham even offers scholarships.

[joebba]

UC has recently cut programs. They had a really good men's track program that got the axe. Chances are the tax dollars are going to sports other than football and basketball. As poor as the attendance is in basketball, the revenue from basketball is still good enough to support itself. As for everything else, it's not as easy to balance as you think. If you cut the funding for men's basketball, you may end up with a bigger deficit. If basketball isn't winning and ends up producing less revenue than what it currently does, then you end up with even less money to spend elsewhere and are faced with needing a bigger subsidy from the university.



Maybe, but not necessarily. I don't know the exact figures, and I'm not going to make any effort at all to look them up, but say they spend $2 million on men's basketball, and make $6 million (Again, I have no idea what the actual figures are). Now, say they spend $18.7 million on everything else and make nothing. That's an overall budget of $20.7 million that generated a total of $6 million in revenue, and required a subsidy from the university of $14.7 million (if my math is correct. If it's not, you still get the idea).


My point is, it could be that basketball is actually reducing the deficiit, not increasing it.

Bom bom bom bom bom. This was Brew's 2001st post. Congrats.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vDa9XuLafOw/TwDeVQQJFsI/AAAAAAAABp0/-PCToWgUerw/s400/DSC_6027edited.jpg

[Masterofreality]

Gawd. Delaware State and F-m in football as two of the home games? Then follow that up with games against Toledo and Miami? That is some schedule.

Sun Belt Conference teams play a tougher schedule.

It has to be because of the "minefield" of the monstrous Big Least Conference. Nice to see Jones learning at the feet of YTG of how to build up a win total.

Footnote. Why is F-m even playing football? Off of the money that Xavier throws to them from our basketball success? BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[JTG]

Gawd. Delaware State and F-m in football as two of the home games? Then follow that up with games against Toledo and Miami? That is some schedule.

Footnote. Why is F-m even playing football? Off of the money that Xavier throws to them from our basketball success? BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I think we should ask for Fordhams guarantee money from UC, since they have been "stealing our NCAA money for years".I still say sending Fham and LaSalle to the CAA is a good idea.

[Masterofreality]

I think we should ask for Fordhams guarantee money from UC, since they have been "stealing our NCAA money for years".I still say sending Fham and LaSalle to the CAA is a good idea.

Probably too good for them. Patriot League is more appropo.

[Kahns Krazy]

Gawd. Delaware State and F-m in football as two of the home games? Then follow that up with games against Toledo and Miami? That is some schedule.


UC thought they were getting another Big East game. When TCU backed out, they were left with an open spot on the schedule.

I don't know if that justifies how bad of a team they scheduled, but that is what happened.

[coasterville95]

Yeah, UC got bit by TCU backing out. Now, that would have been a good game.

But, it still affords us to chance to make jokes about their scheduling philosophy, which seems to be to schedule as many cupcakes as possible.

Oh, and they also released a statement about how they are committed to improving Nippert vs. playing more games at PBS. Imagine that, the PBS games didn't make sense financially with the size crowds they were shoehorning in there.

[outsideobserver11]

UC thought they were getting another Big East game. When TCU backed out, they were left with an open spot on the schedule.

I don't know if that justifies how bad of a team they scheduled, but that is what happened.

The problem was they would only schedule a home and home series with a bigger name school but couldn't find a taker. Other schools in the Big East filled the void by playing a one time game away from home but UC didn't want to take that route. They initially thought they had a deal in place with Florida State but that fell apart. Bowl eligible shouldn't be too hard to achieve this year.

[xu95]

No school from a major conference is going to schedule a home and home game with a school from the CUSA of football.

[XUglow]

No school from a major conference is going to schedule a home and home game with a school from the CUSA of football.

What do UC football tickets run?

[xubrew]

Gawd. Delaware State and F-m in football as two of the home games? Then follow that up with games against Toledo and Miami? That is some schedule.

Sun Belt Conference teams play a tougher schedule.

It has to be because of the "minefield" of the monstrous Big Least Conference. Nice to see Jones learning at the feet of YTG of how to build up a win total.

Footnote. Why is F-m even playing football? Off of the money that Xavier throws to them from our basketball success? BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Sun Belt teams normally play a brutal OOC schedule. Pretty much the opposite of what UC is doing. I mean...My God. FORDHAM!!! Was Dayton not available?? That may have actually been a better game.

For those that are wondering, Fordham was 1-10 last year, and managed to finish dead last in the Patriot League. And like I said before, I don't think the Patriot offers football scholarships. Dayton doesn't either, but at least Dayton wins most of their games.


I think we should ask for Fordhams guarantee money from UC, since they have been "stealing our NCAA money for years".I still say sending Fham and LaSalle to the CAA is a good idea.

LaSalle to the MAAC and Fordham to the Patriot (where they already play football) would be better. It's what's best for everyone.

Whoever said that Fordham should give their guarantee to X, I couldn't agree more.

[xubrew]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!

The Patriot League will begin offering football scholarships in 2013, but they have never done so in the past, and will not do so this year.

Wrap your brain around that for a second. UC is playing a non-scholarship team that plays in a non-scholarship conference, and finished dead last within that conference. They're playing a 1-10 team who's entire schedule consisted of teams who don't offer scholarships.

You can't do any worse. You really can't. Mount Union, a d3 program, would have made more sense.