Butler to the A10? (VCU, GMU, Crieghton, ... Cleveland St.... OH MY

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Apparently they have expressed interest in joining in 2013

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/53114/3-point-shot-3

[bobbiemcgee]

Makes too much sense, so probably won't happen.

[UCGRAD4X]

Interesting.
And Groce possibly going to Nebraska.

[BandAid]

Interesting.
And Groce possibly going to Nebraska.

I hope he doesn't. That job is a dead end.

[xavierj]

I hope he doesn't. That job is a dead end.

Yep. I would hold out for something else. Nebraska is not as good of a job for your future as is Ohio U.

[GIMMFD]

I like Butler, that would be very good for this league, it would increase revenue, and give a little bit of competition as a replacement to Temple!

[_LH]

XU has to get out of the A10.

I know they really have no better options right now but I hope like crazy that they are leading the talks on either starting a new league with the best of the A10 and bball only BE teams or lobbying to get in the bloated BE team to replace Louisville.

[GoMuskies]

Nebraska is not as good of a job for your future as is Ohio U.

Unless, of course, you dream of only working five more years and retiring. The Nebraska job is excellent for that.

[Titanxman04]

Groce might have the desire to be a broadcaster for the Big Ten Network if he wants to go coach at Nebraska. Lets face it, after those five years, he'll be fired, and then he could go broadcast. Not a terrible career path I guess.

As for Butler coming, it'd be an excellent addition to the conference. The A10 was actually decent this year, and I don't hate the idea of sticking around, as the conference has been good for us. We're getting 5 star recruits now (Semaj), we make runs in the tournament, and we consistently go to the tournament.

If we can find another solid program to join the A10 (and kick Fordham out), this conference might actually be half decent.

[coasterville95]

As much grief as we give Butler (particularly in early Decemver, oh right when our game with them rolls around) I have to agree they would make a great add to the conference.

It helps our little midwest "division" - Be even better if we could get the pod partners changed to SLU, dayton, Butler.

A step up to a better conference (sorry, Horizon, but...) and the kickoff of this $25 million Hinkle improvement project the Butler fans keep telling up about could really be a nice shot in the arm to their program, facilities wise. We know they generally put a good team on the floor. Annual H/H's with those three would be good for our in conferene SOS and RPI.

I say welcome them with open arms, A10 Commish!

[boozehound]

I would definitely take Butler in the A-10. They are a solid program with a good coach and a recognizable brand (thanks to their 2 Title Game runs). The conference could certainly do much worse than Butler.

[markchal]

Andy Katz is reporting this morning that Butler has expressed interest in joining the A-10. Is this enough to replace Temple? I'd feel better about this if it was a few years ago but Butler is probably the best choice out there to replace Temple...right?

God I hope the Big East blows up.

[XU 87]

I would guess that Butler is the best program out there that would want to join the A-10. While I doubt we'll ever see them in a final four ever again (of course I thought the same thing last year), they are a good program that plays in a large tv market.

[nuts4xu]

Butler makes the most sense to me, and seems they would be the best fit to take the place of Temple.

I still hope the Big East implodes leaving the basketball only schools to become the new Atlantic 10.

[coasterville95]

Right, but until the Big East implodes we can't just read on our laurels, we have to bring new quality programs into the A10. Butler will replace Temple nicely. And Butler in for 2012, and temple out for 2013, timing is good.

How much will the Horizon want to buy Butler out of their conference. Can we afford it out of the money Temple is going to give?

So, thinking down the road, we next have to be thinking of who will nicely replace Charlotte and UMass if their football aspirations lead to a conference jump.

(Though, I also like the idea of "encouraging" Fordham to pursue conference opportunities elsewhere "And if you go quietly, we'll forget about the exit fee")

[_LH]

Invite Seton Hall or DePaul.

[BMoreX]

If Butler comes, I'd like to play home-and-homes with them, Dayton, and SLU every year.

[Drew's Crew]

Butler would be an awesome addition to the A-10. It would just give us another annual rivalry game too, which as a fan, I love.

Seton Hall would be a pretty good choice, but I am not sure how they would fare in the A10. The only reason they can get any mediocre recruits as it is is because they have "Big East" painted on their floor. And most years, they still suck. Take that away, and I am not sure how they would fare.

[Muskie]

Here's the IndyStar (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120312/SPORTS0605/120312021/Report-Butler-eyes-joining-Atlantic-10-Conference?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com| s) article.

[MaurerHigh]

Honestly, nothing would piss Dayton fans off more than for Butler to replace them as our in conference rival.

I only have one thing to say if Butler joints the A-10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_X8ZZwcs4k


Make it happen!

[GuyFawkes38]

The attendance numbers for Butler are so freaking awful that it does raise some concerns.

Of course, if Butler performs as well in the past 10 years as they do in the next 10 years, it's a no brainer. I'm just concerned that Stevens will bolt, attendance will sucks, and Butler might be deadweight.

[butler312]

I'm really hoping we can join you guys in the A10. That would be a huge step up from the Horizon League and should help out the program a lot. As for possible attendance concerns, it has been increasing steadily over the past several years. Despite a horrible season in what was projected to be a down year the average attendance was 7,200, the highest in 40+ years. IIRC, with the new seating upgrades capacity in Hinkle will be down to 8,500. So Butler would likely sell out most games in the A10. I see some conflicting information, but a quick internet search shows that the average attendance in the A10 was between 5,000 and 6,000 last year. So Butler draws more than the average A10 team and is probably comparable to what you lost in Temple. I don't think that should be an issue really.

[bleedXblue]

Can we please stop with the attendance concerns at Butler ?

Please ?

Pretty please ?

For God sakes they outdraw over half of the A-10.

Hell, there are at least 4-5 gym's in the A-10 that dont even seat 7,200.

With a better league and local/regional rivalry's this number will easily increase to over 8,000 when the join the A-10.

[xavierj]

The attendance numbers for Butler are so freaking awful that it does raise some concerns.

Of course, if Butler performs as well in the past 10 years as they do in the next 10 years, it's a no brainer. I'm just concerned that Stevens will bolt, attendance will sucks, and Butler might be deadweight.

Uh Temple drew less than 6,000 a game last year and just over 7,000 this year. Butler is in line with them and more than most A-10 teams. I don't know if Butler is the answer but they would do nothing but help the league. They will be pretty darn good the next couple of years, especially if Stevens sticks around. Butler is also spending a lot of money to upgrade their facilities so that should help as well.

[Muskied]

The attendance numbers for Butler are so freaking awful that it does raise some concerns.

Of course, if Butler performs as well in the past 10 years as they do in the next 10 years, it's a no brainer. I'm just concerned that Stevens will bolt, attendance will sucks, and Butler might be deadweight.

When Stevens bolts, they will have NO problem replacing him with someone who knows their sysem, can build relationships with the same players, and continue the Butler formula for success. Will they repeat final 4's? I doubt it, but keep in mind they are a very good program, with success beyond that.

I'd have NO hesitation about adding Butler. We need to do that yesterday.

[drudy23]

Invite Seton Hall or DePaul.

Invite them to what? The A10?

No thanks.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Invite them to what? The A10?

No thanks.

Oh boy

http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/can-of-worms1.jpg

[coasterville95]

So 7,200 is a bad attendance number? Let's see Fordham, LaSalle, St. Joeseph, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure - do any of those arenas/glorified high school gyms even seat 7,200? And its Historic Hinkle Fieldhouse. And they are committed to that major renovation project.

I don't know where that renovation project is, but if it's in fundraising stages, imagine the hook you could use wth donors "In our attempt to upgrade to a better conference, we need to upgrade our facilities, your donation would help" If they are past fundraising, imagine the fan buzz that could be created "Next year your Bulldogs play in a new, better confernece, in a new and improved Hinkle Fieldhouse" Sounds like a marketing win for them. Also, bringing in better programs will help drive attendance up.

As far as concerns about the coach leaving, isn't that a worry at almost every DI school? That every April some school may take a liking to your coach. Great schools usually have plans for this and will be able to smoothly continue success with a new coach. We should know all about that. I mean some poor school even poached Brian Gregory, if he got a serious look, almost any coach is up for grabs.

I admit I'm not aware of Butler's athletics beyound men's basketball, so I will have to take a look at those tongiht, to see what they bring to the table in the other sports.

Also, on a school-to-school level - a confernece rivalry with Butler would not exactly be brand new. I mean these last three years, even as an OOC series, the rivalry is already back off to a great start.

And lastly - on a real school to school personal level - doesn't the A10 require shcools install the Precision Time System. :) Too soon?

[bobbiemcgee]

During the 2011 college basketball season, Temple drew 5,925 fans per game in 14 home games. 90th best.

[_LH]

Invite them to what? The A10?

No thanks.

Yeah it would be horrible to add two BE teams over a Horizon team. :rolleyes:

[bigdiggins]

Invite them to what? The A10?

No thanks.

My Xavierhoops experience has been so much nicer since I put _LH on the ignore list. Then drudy had to go and quote him. :(

[xudash]

For the record, given all the circumstance involved, including the acknowledgement that this league is too stupid to kick any program out in order to really improve itself, I believe Butler is a solid candidate for inclusion in the A10.

However, for those of you who are tired of reading about the attendance issue for Butler, going so far as to cite other A10 school attendance figures in its defense, would you please consider that isn't relevant if you are serious about strategically planning for the league's future. You are settling. That isn't the way to handle the decisioning around this matter. Who on God's green earth involves themselves in a planning process where they're benchmarking to their lowest common denominators?

Butler isn't a slam dunk. If Butler were a slam dunk, its attendance would be more aligned with its recent on court success. Butler's last two runs were anomalies; there is no other way to look at it. They did it, so good for Butler, but it didn't translate with respect to the attendance issue.

Nonetheless, Butler appears to be the most logical candidate for addition for many reasons stated in this thread and from prior discussions. Overall, assuming Butler completes its $25 million funding campaign for badly needed upgrades to Hinkle, even with those renovations knocking capacity down to 8.5k, bring them in.

[kellernr]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7675856/butler-bulldogs-interested-joining-atlantic-10-sources-say

[Porkopolis]

It is hard to believe Butler went from national runner-up to CBI participant in one season. It really does put our season in perspective. FWIW, I'd love to have Butler in the A-10. There is no possible downside for the league.

[LA Muskie]

I have nothing more to add. Just thought it warranted a 5th thread.

[Snipe]

Fordham needs to go back to the Patriot League. That should be the first thing on the docket.

The A-10 is too big. Butler is the best choice for expansion, I would agree. But our problem is too many teams, not too few.

[LA Muskie]

Fordham needs to go back to the Patriot League. That should be the first thing on the docket.

The A-10 is too big. Butler is the best choice for expansion, I would agree. But our problem is too many teams, not too few.

I think most of us agree with you Snipe. But assuming contraction isn't on the table (and that seems to be a fair assumption if history is our guide), adding Butler at least boosts our overall competitive numbers.

[Dr. X]

As long as they fix their clocks.

[xubrew]

So, thinking down the road, we next have to be thinking of who will nicely replace Charlotte and UMass if their football aspirations lead to a conference jump.

How about....no one. I like the twelve team format more than the fourteen team format.

XU, UD, Butler, SLU, Richmond, Duquesne. That meets my approval for a pretty damn good western division.

Getting rid of Fordham is virtually impossible, but having to deal with them just once a year won't be so bad. Besides, they're doing something now that they've never done before. They're plunging tons of money into men's basketball. It didn't yield any results yet, and perhaps they'll never be a contender, but maybe they won't be a sub250 90% of the time anymore.

[Masterofreality]

Well F-m did beat Georgia Tech and Harvard this year.

Of course, Georgia Tech is coached by BG, so limited props for that. At least they didn't embarrass the league and lose.

[xubrew]

Well F-m did beat Georgia Tech and Harvard this year.

Of course, Georgia Tech is coached by BG, so limited props for that. At least they didn't embarrass the league and lose.

Sadly, that is an upgrade.

[Xavgrad08]

Any chance we could land a team from the CAA such as VCU?

[xudash]

Some more perspective - more or less (not about Butler, but changes in collegiate hoops/BE):

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7675694/watching-demise-once-mighty-basketball-super-conference

[GoMuskies]

Some more perspective - more or less (not about Butler, but changes in collegiate hoops/BE):

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7675694/watching-demise-once-mighty-basketball-super-conference

This pointless (literally) article was posted in the Grantland thread to "celebrate" its pointlessness.

[xudash]

This pointless (literally) article was posted in the Grantland thread to "celebrate" its pointlessness.

What's your point? (just kidding).

It is interesting how much things have changed.

It used to be Dick Enberg, Billy Fudgpacker and Al McGuire on NBC. "This Is It" by Kenny Loggins was the tournament theme song.

Billy moved over to CBS when they picked up the Tournament. Here we are billions of dollars later.

[SlimKibbles]

Any chance we could land a team from the CAA such as VCU?

I doubt VCU would join considering Richmond is already a part of the A-10. Now, if Richmond and Charlotte were to leave for football reasons, VCU would be a good target.


Invite Seton Hall or DePaul.

Why would they leave the Big East for the A-10?

[_LH]

Why would they leave the Big East for the A-10?

I doubt that they would. But the A10 could at least make the attempt and try to sell them on a basketball centric league that both would have a better chance of making the NCAA in.

[xavierj]

I doubt VCU would join considering Richmond is already a part of the A-10. Now, if Richmond and Charlotte were to leave for football reasons, VCU would be a good target.



Why would they leave the Big East for the A-10?

Well for one I would think they would get tired of never making the NCAA tourney and for the fact that they can align with teams they have more in common with. Xavier makes more basketball money than depaul and seton hall. So I guess why would they stay? Unless the like being bottom feeders. Especially depaul.

[Muskie]

Indy Talk shows were a buzz last night with Butler to the A-10. Most of the Butler fans calling in seemed to embrace the idea.

[bleedXblue]

Indy Talk shows were a buzz last night with Butler to the A-10. Most of the Butler fans calling in seemed to embrace the idea.

its a no brainer

get it done

[coasterville95]

So, on the flip side of this - What will this do the the Horizon. They lose Butler, so that would make what Valpo, Detroit or CSU as their top flight programs? Some other Horizon leage programs are concerned that Butler leaving will reduce their conference to only 5 schools that offer baseball, so they will loose an autobid in baseball.

Talk on a CSU message board makes it sound like their fans expect CSU to get an invite along with Butler. Thread kinda made me feel bad for CSU, it seems they bit off more than they could chew with their new arena, money wise. Other comments in that thread, somebody pulled some A10 atheltic department budget numbers, and they show Fordham and Rhode Island as the top spenders in the A10, can that be right? They have us downf ro approximately 14 million, and Fordham down for 21 million.

Boards were pointed out that the A10 and Horizon both deny this, but find itinteresting Butler is not.

Even the Butler board seems to like the idea, I think the largeset concern I read was about the TV package. Horizon league offers all games on web stream. That and potential travel costs with the east coast schools. That's why a SLU/Butler/XU/ud pod just makes sense.

Oh, the've already scouted out the fact a few of our members play in glorifed high school gyms, and while they recognize a few schedule improvements, they see some as lateral at best (Fordham, LaSalle). Oh, and the Butler fans seem to be in favor of divisions...

[xudash]

coaster, the budget numbers they pulled could have been total athletic budget figures -- football included, in other words.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Just out of curiousity sake LH, why do you want Seton Hall and Depaul in the A10? Just for market value?

Also why do you think they will leave the Big East and come to the A10?

[_LH]

Just out of curiousity sake LH, why do you want Seton Hall and Depaul in the A10? Just for market value?

Also why do you think they will leave the Big East and come to the A10?

I never said I think they would leave the Big East for the A10.

[waggy]

Which reminds me the question I have about Butler, leaving behind considerable NCAA credits in the Horizon.

[xubrew]

Which reminds me the question I have about Butler, leaving behind considerable NCAA credits in the Horizon.

That would be a loss in the short run, but perhaps money well spent in the long run.

[Coogles]

Mark Neal (@ESPNMark)
3/15/12 9:05 AM

Just spoke w/ someone in the know, and this #Butler to the #A10 is more than interest, it is all but a done deal.

[xudash]

That would be a loss in the short run, but perhaps money well spent in the long run.

And they would be stepping into a conference where it would not always be about being on their back alone - a multiple bid league versus the Horizon League one or occasional one or two bid gig.

[Muskie]

I feel like they might be an upgrade over departing Temple...

[xudash]

I feel like they might be an upgrade over departing Temple...

Looking at it from the vantage point of evaluating PROGRAMS and not recent tournament success, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Temple?

Philly!

Assuming Fran Dunphy really gets it going over there again, and he's close now, Temple will be a force for years to come.

[coasterville95]

So, the money earned from tourney appearances all goes to your conference, which then divides it up amongst itself and its members as it sees fit?

True Butler may be walking away from 12 tourney game credits all on their own, but with the A10 consistantly getting three teams into the tourney, It's not like they won't get something. Unless the A10 has a rule about money only going to teams that were members the year the credit was earned, those go back 4 seasons right?

Glad to (almost) be able to welcome Butler. Now that gets us back to 14. How solid is Charlotte to Sun Belt?

[SlimKibbles]

I feel like they might be an upgrade over departing Temple...

If you're basing it on what they've done recently, sure, the runner-up in the last two NCAA Championship games and perennial Dance participant Butler could be looked at as an upgrade. Program history and market is in Temple's favor. Butler is a great replacement for Temple though. They'll have a natural rivalry with X, UD, and even SLU. Old MCC foes back together again. Please leave Evansville out. Their fans were always annoying as hell.

[xavierj]

If you're basing it on what they've done recently, sure, the runner-up in the last two NCAA Championship games and perennial Dance participant Butler could be looked at as an upgrade. Program history and market is in Temple's favor. Butler is a great replacement for Temple though. They'll have a natural rivalry with X, UD, and even SLU. Old MCC foes back together again. Please leave Evansville out. Their fans were always annoying as hell.

And we get a conference road game where we can drive an hour and a half up the road and Indy is a pretty fun town. Now if Charlotte leaves I would try to entice Depaul to make the jump. Having a team from Chicago is never a bad thing in my opinion, especially for road trips. Plus Depaul will probably be better in the near future.

[Muskie]

Looking at it from the vantage point of evaluating PROGRAMS and not recent tournament success, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Temple?

Philly!

Assuming Fran Dunphy really gets it going over there again, and he's close now, Temple will be a force for years to come.

Don't we still have the Philly/PA market with some of the other teams though? (I realize Temple is the strongest of the bunch).

[xavierj]

Don't we still have the Philly/PA market with some of the other teams though? (I realize Temple is the strongest of the bunch).

They will not be next year. That will be St. Joe.

[LA Muskie]

So, the money earned from tourney appearances all goes to your conference, which then divides it up amongst itself and its members as it sees fit?

True Butler may be walking away from 12 tourney game credits all on their own, but with the A10 consistantly getting three teams into the tourney, It's not like they won't get something. Unless the A10 has a rule about money only going to teams that were members the year the credit was earned, those go back 4 seasons right?
Pretty sure this is the case, although everything is negotiable.

[danaandvictory]

Screw it. Sign up Marquette, DePaul, Loyola, and Detroit, jettison the east coast, and let's go all 1987 on everyone.

Except Evansville. Screw those guys. I hope Parrish Casebier gets eaten by a bear.

EDIT: Wow.


Parrish Casebier

Former Evansville basketball

He was convicted in absentia in 1995 of rape and sexual misconduct with a minor, both felonies. Evansville Circuit Court Judge Richard Young set aside the jury's verdict on the sexual misconduct charge but sentenced Casebier to eight years in prison on the rape charge.

[vee4xu]

I want Creighton.

[Coogles]

Just thought you guys would get a kick out of this. Cleveland State to A10? Pretty please?

http://letsgovikes.com/forum/index.php/topic,1740.0.html

[SixFig]

RobDemovsky

Just heard for another source that Butler to the Atlantic 10 is a done deal. Only a few details need to be worked out.

[Masterofreality]

Actually, I'd be OK with Cleveland State in the A-10.

Nice building. A very good TV market and it's a close travel game for Xavier, the dump. Dookcane and St. Bonnies and their fans.

CSU will not embarrass the league. Gary Waters is a very good coach. They beat Bona this year.

Might be a very good addition if Charlotte or UMass take off.

[coasterville95]

Also hearing some more quiet buzz that the A-10 may also be looking at VCU and George Mason. Then I think we have specualted the same, and it may just be becuase they are some of the more logical replacements/ additions.

But, think about it, the A10 has put out a floater to see how the idea of an 18 game conference schedule would be accepted.

What if instead of just replacing Temple with Butler, they also expand again, adding VCU and George Mason. Then we would have 16 teams, and an 18 game schedule would allow for us to still play every team once, and still have our pod games (SLU, Butler, dayton)

Then we lose Charlotte and UMass to their football aspirations. Go back down to 14, if we don't replace. That way the A10 is never viewed as a dying league.

Just imagine how Horizon Leage must feel, with the poaching of their premier program seeming more and more like a done deal.

[Muskie]

Actually, I'd be OK with Cleveland State in the A-10.

Nice building. A very good TV market and it's a close travel game for Xavier, the dump. Dookcane and St. Bonnies and their fans.

CSU will not embarrass the league. Gary Waters is a very good coach. They beat Bona this year.

Might be a very good addition if Charlotte or UMass take off.

Don't you mean... It's a close travel game for MOR :rolleyes:;)

[powerofX]

Actually, I'd be OK with Cleveland State in the A-10.

Nice building. A very good TV market and it's a close travel game for Xavier, the dump. Dookcane and St. Bonnies and their fans.

CSU will not embarrass the league. Gary Waters is a very good coach. They beat Bona this year.

Might be a very good addition if Charlotte or UMass take off.

We better force WFU to pick the Prosser Classic back up if/when Charlotte leaves. I'll have severe withdrawal down here in Charlotte.

[DC Muskie]

Also hearing some more quiet buzz that the A-10 may also be looking at VCU and George Mason. Then I think we have specualted the same, and it may just be becuase they are some of the more logical replacements/ additions.

But, think about it, the A10 has put out a floater to see how the idea of an 18 game conference schedule would be accepted.

What if instead of just replacing Temple with Butler, they also expand again, adding VCU and George Mason. Then we would have 16 teams, and an 18 game schedule would allow for us to still play every team once, and still have our pod games (SLU, Butler, dayton)

Then we lose Charlotte and UMass to their football aspirations. Go back down to 14, if we don't replace. That way the A10 is never viewed as a dying league.

Just imagine how Horizon Leage must feel, with the poaching of their premier program seeming more and more like a done deal.

I have no say in this and have ZERO inside information, but I can't imagine the league would want to have two teams in Richmond. That just seems completely unnecessary.

Also, how would Xavier feel about adding two more conference games to the schedule? That pretty much ties us to the success of the A-10 overall. Meaning, we would have to drop two of our better games, to accommodate the inclusion of two teams.

I'm not sure I would be down with that.

[coasterville95]

You may recall when the A-10 put out that feeler about an 18 game schedule, the majority of the schools, including us, said "NO!"

I'd agree - we would be a loser in that.

[_LH]

Any new news about adding Butler? I heard it was a done deal but I never saw anything official.

I really hope the A10 does not add Butler right now. Maybe down the road but what's the hurry. The A10 should look to add Seton Hall instead.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Any new news about adding Butler? I heard it was a done deal but I never saw anything official.

I really hope the A10 does not add Butler right now. Maybe down the road but what's the hurry. The A10 should look to add Seton Hall instead.

They are finalizing it right now.

[_LH]

They are finalizing it right now.

Typical of the A10. Lazy, easy move. The A10 could get Butler to join anytime they want. Did they at least try to convice one or two bball only BE schools to join?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Typical of the A10. Lazy, easy move. The A10 could get Butler to join anytime they want. Did they at least try to convice one or two bball only BE schools to join?

I don't know if its lazy.

They got one of the best bball only programs that is available to them at the moment. I doubt any big east bball team is going to leave a conference where they make more money to join a weaker conference that pays them less. Hopefully they implode soon we'll see but I think the A10 did as well as they could given the current landscape

[_LH]

I don't know if its lazy.

They got one of the best bball only programs that is available to them at the moment. I doubt any big east bball team is going to leave a conference where they make more money to join a weaker conference that pays them less. Hopefully they implode soon we'll see but I think the A10 did as well as they could given the current landscape

When Butler will come at anytime, it is lazy to not pursue other programs even if they are long shots.

[waggy]

They are not long shots; they are no shots.

[_LH]

They are not long shots; they are no shots.

I didn't realize you worked for the A10. :rolleyes:

[DC Muskie]

You may recall when the A-10 put out that feeler about an 18 game schedule, the majority of the schools, including us, said "NO!"

I'd agree - we would be a loser in that.

Oh okay, I must have read that wrong then. Phew!

[SlimKibbles]

When Butler will come at anytime, it is lazy to not pursue other programs even if they are long shots.

Who do you have in mind? Do you think DePaul, Marquette, or Georgetown would leave the Big Least for the A-10? Of course not. It would be dumb on their part to move right now unless it was as a group with the basketball-only schools to form a new conference. And what is wrong with Butler? I think they are a great addition to the league at this point. I really wish the A-10 could get Belmont and boot somebody else out but 1) Belmont just joined the OVC for 2012-13 and 2) booting schools doesn't really happen...does it?

[X-band '01]

Typical of the A10. Lazy, easy move. The A10 could get Butler to join anytime they want. Did they at least try to convice one or two bball only BE schools to join?

I think one of the important details that has to be hammered out are going to be Butler's exit fee for the Horizon League as well as whether or not they'll be allowed to bring their NCAA units with them. I think I've heard that the Horizon League may not let them transfer their credits with them to the A-10.

Which brings me to point #2 - how are you going to convince a basketball-only school to just walk away from the cash cow that is the Big East TV contract and NCAA unit sharing system? It's just not going to happen.

[_LH]

I think one of the important details that has to be hammered out are going to be Butler's exit fee for the Horizon League as well as whether or not they'll be allowed to bring their NCAA units with them. I think I've heard that the Horizon League may not let them transfer their credits with them to the A-10.

Which brings me to point #2 - how are you going to convince a basketball-only school to just walk away from the cash cow that is the Big East TV contract and NCAA unit sharing system? It's just not going to happen.

I didn't say or even suggest it would be easy or that anyone from the BE would make the move but the A10 didn't even try. Butler is there for the taking at anytime. It is the lazy, easy move. We all know they will say yes. Butler is our safety school. What's wrong with shooting for something better.

Most XU fans would love to play in a league with Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova. I don't know if that will ever happen but by attempting to pull away teams like Seton Hall and DePaul from the BE, it might make it easier to get the better bball only schools to leave the likes of Houston and South Florida down the road.

Pursuing Seton Hall is proactive where pursuing Butler is reactive.

So what if Seton Hall says "no, are you crazy", the A10 just turns around and calls Butler.

[xnatic03]

How do you know that call wasn't made LH? They don't necessarily bring everything to the press. They could have made the call and gotten the emphatic NO that we probably all expected they would.
What am I doing? I'm arguing with the inarguable LH....this probably won't go well.

[_LH]

How do you know that call wasn't made LH? They don't necessarily bring everything to the press. They could have made the call and gotten the emphatic NO that we probably all expected they would.
What am I doing? I'm arguing with the inarguable LH....this probably won't go well.

Everything is pretty much leaked nowadays but you're right, I don't know for sure. We do know that Butler is a candidate so it is safe to assume other candidates would have been leaked as well, but go ahead and play that game if you want.

[xnatic03]

They could have made the call and gotten a quick no, and if that's the case, then why would it get leaked. The Butler name got leaked because there was actual interest on both sides.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Everything is pretty much leaked nowadays but you're right, I don't know

XNatic has done what was previously thought impossible.

[_LH]

XNatic has done what was previously thought impossible.

I never claimed to know that they did or didn't contact BE bball only schools to replace Temple.

[xnatic03]

XNatic has done what was previously thought impossible.

You're welcome. I think it comes from dealing with three daughters on a daily basis that are 7 and under. I've gotten pretty good at "negotiating" with people of that mindset.

[_LH]

You're welcome. I think it comes from dealing with three daughters on a daily basis that are 7 and under. I've gotten pretty good at "negotiating" with people of that mindset.

No need for childish insults. Just admit you don't know if they did or didn't either.

Of course you also missed the point so maybe you should spend more time with people of that mindset.

[BMoreX]

The Duquesne President's letter was released to CBS Sports and this popped out to me, among others on the A10 board.



We are confident that we can find a new coach who will build on what Ron has accomplished. We have a great tradition, a virtually new home facility, the proximity and close relationship with the Consol Center, an effective AD, a core fan base that is hungry for a better product, and a strong University commitment to the program. While not a regular contender for leadership in our conference, Duquesne is no longer the doormat. The A10 conference itself is on the verge of a major improvement with the addition of new high quality university programs. All of this amounts to an exciting professional opportunity for a new coach.

Does that signify multiple programs are joining the A10? Or possibly a typo? What do you all think?

The full letter is here. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/17993839/duquesne-president-details-reasons-for-firing-everhart-in-email-to-board)

[LA Muskie]

Not a typo. If they were talking about adding a single program, I doubt he would have used the term "major" and he would have said "the addition of a quality university program." The odds of mistakenly (i) forgetting to use the article "a" and (ii) adding "s" to "program", are pretty low.

[Juice]

Add George Mason and VCU


Gary Parrish ‏ @GaryParrishCBS


RT @McMurphyCBS: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10 sources tell @CBSSports http://cbsprt.co/H5dHBr

[Masterofreality]

Add George Mason and VCU

Hmmmm.

16 team league?

Can't believe Richmond is happy about this.

[kmcrawfo]

Add George Mason and VCU

It seems conference consolidation is running rampant.

Conference USA is pretty much gone with Memphis leaving for the big east. Horizon loses its only decent program. Also, the A10 pilfers the only consistently good colonial teams.

A10 may end being on par with the BCS conferences getting 4-6 bids each year. After these most recent moves, any other conference outside of the mountain west may be lucky to get 2 bids.

[coasterville95]

Get ready for some head explosions.

You realize that if the negotiating includes VCU, George Mason and Butler that means the 16 team expansion is very much on the table. And by extension the 18 game conference schedule.

So, which two OOC games do we lose. Butler takes care of one by becoming a conference game.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x5cuda

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Get ready for some head explosions.

You realize that if the negotiating includes VCU, George Mason and Butler that means the 16 team expansion is very much on the table. And by extension the 18 game conference schedule.

So, which two OOC games do we lose. Butler takes care of one by becoming a conference game.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x5cuda

Not necessarily. I think this shows that Richmond, UNCC, and UMass are more than likely leaving soon

[Masterofreality]

Not necessarily. I think this shows that Richmond, UNCC, and UMass are more than likely leaving soon

Where did anyone mention Richmond leaving?

[xudash]

Getting stronger while killing competition at the conference level.

Not a bad strategy.

Otherwise, Richmond is not leaving the Atlantic 10 conference.

[waggy]

Add George Mason and VCU


Gary Parrish ‏ @GaryParrishCBS


RT @McMurphyCBS: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10 sources tell @CBSSports http://cbsprt.co/H5dHBr

Did Parrish credit the Duquesne president, or the A10 messageboard?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Where did anyone mention Richmond leaving?

Brainfart. I meant temple.

It is weird that Richmond will let VCU in though

[Masterofreality]

I'm gonna miss that mid-winter trip to S. Amherst, MA. :rolleyes:

I know Blue Guy will too. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Funny thing is that based upon NCAA Tournament performance, the A-10 will be much better off with Butler and VCU than Temple. The Owls only play great at home.

So the A-10 will have two teams in Richmond, two teams in Philly and two teams in Washington DC metro. Interesting.

[waggy]

VCU usually puts together a solid OOC record. Good addition, especially if Shaka sticks around.

[BMoreX]

Well, I'm not going to like a 16 team league, but by the time these three would join, it is very possible that UMass and Charlotte have left and the A10 remains a 14 team league.

We give the A10 crap for not being proactive much. Kudos to them trying to maintain the best non-BCS conference label.

[muskienick]

Well, I'm not going to like a 16 team league, but by the time these three would join, it is very possible that UMass and Charlotte have left and the A10 remains a 14 team league.

We give the A10 crap for not being proactive much. Kudos to them trying to maintain the best non-BCS conference label.

I couldn't agree more with your last sentence. However, the proof will be in the pudding!

[SlimKibbles]

Brainfart. I meant temple.

It is weird that Richmond will let VCU in though

I'm wondering about Richmond's plans for its football program. If they want to go D1-A (or FBS, whatever it is now) at some point like UMass, they'll be leaving the A-10 as well. Based on some stories I just came across online, there was talk a few months ago about the CAA jumping to FBS as a conference. That means James Madison, William & Mary, App State, etc. Even Liberty U is being mentioned of making a move. Haven't seen anything on the Spiders doing that though. But, who knows? If a new conference gets created with those schools, maybe they'd leave for that?

[Juice]

I'm wondering about Richmond's plans for its football program. If they want to go D1-A (or FBS, whatever it is now) at some point like UMass, they'll be leaving the A-10 as well. Based on some stories I just came across online, there was talk a few months ago about the CAA jumping to FBS as a conference. That means James Madison, William & Mary, App State, etc. Even Liberty U is being mentioned of making a move. Haven't seen anything on the Spiders doing that though. But, who knows? If a new conference gets created with those schools, maybe they'd leave for that?

Richmond has less than 3,000 undergraduate students and their stadium holds less than 10,000 people. I don't see how D1 football is even an option for them.

[SlimKibbles]

Richmond has less than 3,000 undergraduate students and their stadium holds less than 10,000 people. I don't see how D1 football is even an option for them.

Uh, good point. Forgot about the school being small. I imagine they'll keep doing what they're doing with taking on FBS transfers and whatnot.

[BMoreX]

A big decision will have to be made about keeping a 16 game conference schedule or go to 18. With 16 teams in the league, an 18 game schedule makes the most sense.

You play home-and-homes with 3 members of your pod (for X, I would hope that would be Butler, SLU, Dayton) and then play one game against the rest of the teams (alternate home/away every year). I just want a VCU or SLU in our pod instead of some RPI-killer like Fordham or LaSalle. The only logical way a 16 game schedule would work is each team has a "rival" that they would play home-and-home every year. (For X, I assume that'd be Dayton). You'd play everyone else just once.

While I was against an 18 game conference schedule before, if GMU, VCU, and Butler are added, I wouldn't be as upset going to 18. Butler essentially replaces itself (going from 1 OOC game to 2 in-conference games).

[danaandvictory]

A big decision will have to be made about keeping a 16 game conference schedule or go to 18. With 16 teams in the league, an 18 game schedule makes the most sense.

Maybe. I'm thinking GMU and VCU, when they join, will be replacing UMass and Charlotte and it won't be a problem.

[SixFig]

Read somewhere that Charlotte has an informal invite to the Sun Belt. They should just leave now.

Don't know where UMass ends up, but I wish them luck.

[LA Muskie]

I don't love the notion of 16 teams, but between better and smaller I'd take better.

[Titanxman04]

I'm mostly excited that GMU and VCU will be coming due to their pep bands. They seriously are amazing. If you were in Cleveland last year for the dance, you know what I'm talking about.

[bigdiggins]

I'm mostly excited that GMU and VCU will be coming due to their pep bands. They seriously are amazing. If you were in Cleveland last year for the dance, you know what I'm talking about.

Saw VCU in Dayton at the play-in games last year. Agree 100%. Couldn't even figure out what they were chanting during the one song but it was still entertaining even as a rhythmic, in unison, incoherent mumbling sound.

[xubrew]

Hmmmm.

16 team league?

Can't believe Richmond is happy about this.

I like the teams we're adding, but I'm not a fan of how bloated a lot of these conferences are becoming. If you're only playing the majority of teams in your conference once a year, they really aren't adding a whole lot more to your overall profile than if you were to play them once a year in an OOC game.

My proposal is this....form two conferences. Right now the Atlantic Ten is a fourteen team cluster where many schools have little to nothing in common geographically, athletically, or institutionally with the rest of the conference. Conferences succeed when they're made up of likeminded institutions. Fordham and La Salle don't even feel like conference games when we play them. We may as well be playing Long Island or Drexel. In fact, that would probably be more exciting in most cases.

So, let the schools who don't pump a lot of money into athletics or facilities be in one league, and let those that do be in the other. Give me Butler, Xavier, SLU, UD, VCU, Mason, Richmond and one other team (ODU??). That's a solid league of eight like minded institutions. It creates good rivalries and a balanced schedule. Yeah, it sucks losing Temple and Saint Joseph's, but we only play them once a year anyway. We can still do that. We could even have some sort of scheduling agreement with the other conference, but let each conference be its own entity with its own automatic bid.

As far as some of the others, well, if you don't think a team would be beneficial as part of your OOC schedule, they sure as hell wouldn't be beneficial as a member of your conference.

[SixFig]

I like the teams we're adding, but I'm not a fan of how bloated a lot of these conferences are becoming. If you're only playing the majority of teams in your conference once a year, they really aren't adding a whole lot more to your overall profile than if you were to play them once a year in an OOC game.

My proposal is this....form two conferences. Right now the Atlantic Ten is a fourteen team cluster where many schools have little to nothing in common geographically, athletically, or institutionally with the rest of the conference. Conferences succeed when they're made up of likeminded institutions. Fordham and La Salle don't even feel like conference games when we play them. We may as well be playing Long Island or Drexel. In fact, that would probably be more exciting in most cases.

So, let the schools who don't pump a lot of money into athletics or facilities be in one league, and let those that do be in the other. Give me Butler, Xavier, SLU, UD, VCU, Mason, Richmond and one other team (ODU??). That's a solid league of eight like minded institutions. It creates good rivalries and a balanced schedule. Yeah, it sucks losing Temple and Saint Joseph's, but we only play them once a year anyway. We can still do that. We could even have some sort of scheduling agreement with the other conference, but let each conference be its own entity with its own automatic bid.

As far as some of the others, well, if you don't think a team would be beneficial as part of your OOC schedule, they sure as hell wouldn't be beneficial as a member of your conference.

You are right from a basketball perspective, however from a money perspective (and thus a smart AD's perspective) you like a bigger conference so you can get more NCAA games. Each game a university plays in is worth almost $250,000 to the conference. Having 8 teams is nice if you are getting 4 bids, however it isn't a guarantee or very realistic on the midmajor level. it is better having 14-16 teams and have a better chance at 3-4 bids and having a few teams make deep runs than an 8 team conference that beats up on each other and only ends up with 1-2 teams.

[xubrew]

It's worth more than $250k. Multiply that by six. You get roughly $250k a year for six years for every game.

But, it's split among the conference. 4/8 > 6/16. So, even though you may get less, you're sharing it with less people. Smaller pie, but bigger pieces.

[SixFig]

It's worth more than $250k. Multiply that by six. You get roughly $250k a year for six years for every game.

But, it's split among the conference. 4/8 > 6/16. So, even though you may get less, you're sharing it with less people. Smaller pie, but bigger pieces.

No doubt. But how many midmajor conferences (even big conferences) get half their teams in? More teams equals a better chance for more strong non-conference schedules and more at large bids.

[xubrew]

The one that comes to mind is the Mountain West. They've sent 4/9, 3/9 and 4/8 the last three years.

And last year they had two teams in the Sweet Sixteen, so even though they had fewer teams, they got more shares.

It works both ways. It also opens the door for weaker OOC schedules as well. There have been two conferences that swelled out to sixteen teams. One split in half (WAC/MWC), and the other one almost did. I think they kind of realized that two eight or nine team formats is better than one sixteen team format.

[muskienick]

but let each conference be its own entity with its own automatic bid.

I am not against the 2-Conference idea but there is no way each would get its own automatic bid at the onset of this set-up.

I would suggest three possibilities:
1.) Have the two conferences form a Confederation whereby each has 8 members. Each would play the other members of one's Conference H/A (14 games) and play half the members of the other Conference (2H/2A) on a rotating basis each year to count as Conference games (for a total of 18). This plan would assume the relocation of Fordham, Charlotte, and UMass and the addition of George Mason, Siena, VCU, Butler Creighton and either Notre Dame or Cleveland State.
A-10 Confederation East: Bona's, GM, LaSalle, Richmond, St. Joe's, Siena, URI, and VCU
A-10 Confederation West: Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Duquesne, GW, St. Louis, Xavier, and Notre Dame/Cleveland State

2.) Organize one Conference of 15 members Divided into 3 Divisions. Play each member of one's Division H/A (8 games) + one Division Away and the other Division Home on a rotating basis for an 18-game Conference Schedule. This plan would assume the relocation of Fordham and LaSalle and the addition of VCU, GM, Butler, and Creighton.
South: Charlotte, GW, GM, Richmond, VCU
North: Bona's, Duquesne, St. Joe's, UMass, URI
West: Butler, Creighton, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier

3.) Realistically, the A-10 doesn't have the cojones to contract the League by helping its less competitive programs to relocate to more compatible leagues. Therefore, if the A-10 is going to expand by more than one school as the President of Duquesne suggested in his letter, then three new members would seemingly be added to our current 13 (after Temple Leaves): Butler, VCU, and George Mason.
Since I don't recall the other 37 suggested plans for such a Conference, I will probably repeat at least one by suggesting that:
Each member plays the others once each (15 games) + a 2nd game against each member of its 4-member Division (or Pod) as listed to make an 18-game Conference schedule:
Pod A: Charlotte, Duquesne, UMass, URI
Pod B: Bona's Fordham, LaSalle, St. Joe's
Pod C: Butler, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier
Pod D: George Mason, GW, Richmond, VCU

[xubrew]

I am not against the 2-Conference idea but there is no way each would get its own automatic bid at the onset of this set-up

There IS a way.

The standards for this have changed many times to accomodate (for lack of a better word) various conferences in various sports. For years, it was six teams that had been together for five years. Then it became seven full div1 members thad had been together as full div1 members for eight years.

Now, there is talk of simply making it seven full div1 members that have been full div1 members for eight years. In other words, any seven teams that have been div1 for eight years could form a conference and receive an automatic bid, even if none of the seven had been together before.

Granted, it would be very dangerous and stupid to assume that will happen, but it very well could happen.

...and of course, there's always that magic six letter word. WAIVER.

[GuyFawkes38]

Stevens rejection of the Illinois job (would have doubled his salary) is a good sign that he's in it for the long haul at Butler. Maybe Butler does belong in the A10.

[muskienick]

There IS a way.

The standards for this have changed many times to accomodate (for lack of a better word) various conferences in various sports. For years, it was six teams that had been together for five years. Then it became seven full div1 members thad had been together as full div1 members for eight years.

Now, there is talk of simply making it seven full div1 members that have been full div1 members for eight years. In other words, any seven teams that have been div1 for eight years could form a conference and receive an automatic bid, even if none of the seven had been together before.

Granted, it would be very dangerous and stupid to assume that will happen, but it very well could happen.

...and of course, there's always that magic six letter word. WAIVER.

Brew,

I made my comment based on what procedures are in place now. Hence, my mention that it wouldn't be possible "at the onset" of the creation of the two Conferences.

And the favorite of the three scenarios in my post above is the second. The reason I like it the best is because it shows the A-10 as being proactive not only in going out and getting four top-flight basketball-driven members but also because it shows the A-10 as being equally proactive in jettisonning the two least productive and two most "ill-fitting" programs in the Conference. Also, it provides us with an ample cushion against the defection of 1-3 members for football reasons. And lastly, it creates the additional fan excitement of following three Divisional races instead of just one or two.

[Masterofreality]

It's worth more than $250k. Multiply that by six. You get roughly $250k a year for six years for every game.


And.....F-m and Lossalle haven't earned a single dime since they've been around.

EVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRR!!!

Scofflaws.

[Lloyd Braun]

VCU/GMU deny reports at this time.

http://www2.wsls.com/sports/2012/mar/27/tdsport01-vcu-denies-talking-with-a-10-ar-1796477/

[BandAid]

Theyre talking about the potential move a lot in Creightonland, but it sounds like a lot of speculation - discussing pros and cons, that sort of thing.

[BMoreX]

George Mason said it hasn't had "formal discussions" with the A-10 and is committed to the success of the CAA.

Maybe it's the conspiracy theorist in me talking, but they have certainly have had informal discussions.

[xu95]

Nick, I am not sure what you are talking about. The A-10 isn't talking about jettisoning anybody. Or are we talking about your dream world again?

[muskienick]

Nick, I am not sure what you are talking about. The A-10 isn't talking about jettisoning anybody. Or are we talking about your dream world again?

I totally agree with you, xu95! My earlier post in this thread (#126, I think) stated the following:

"3.) Realistically, the A-10 doesn't have the cojones to contract the League by helping its less competitive programs to relocate to more compatible leagues. Therefore, if the A-10 is going to expand by more than one school as the President of Duquesne suggested in his letter, then three new members would seemingly be added to our current 13 (after Temple Leaves): Butler, VCU, and George Mason.
Since I don't recall the other 37 suggested plans for such a Conference, I will probably repeat at least one by suggesting that:
Each member plays the others once each (15 games) + a 2nd game against each member of its 4-member Division (or Pod) as listed to make an 18-game Conference schedule:
Pod A: Charlotte, Duquesne, UMass, URI
Pod B: Bona's Fordham, LaSalle, St. Joe's
Pod C: Butler, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier
Pod D: George Mason, GW, Richmond, VCU"

I merely stated that my FAVORITE pie-in-the-sky delusion was the second scenario (of three) in that same post which included a combination of proactive moves by the A-10. One would have been to jettison some of our current members and the other would be to attract additional excellent programs to the fold.

[muskiefan82]

Pod C: Butler, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier


THAT, my friends, is a little bit harsh to Butler and Dayton.

[bleedXblue]

Im very surprised that VCU and GM responded to the situation the way that they did.

I'm not as hopeful now.

Not sure thay have true interest in the A-10 based on their comments.

[BMoreX]

Im very surprised that VCU and GM responded to the situation the way that they did.

I'm not as hopeful now.

Not sure thay have true interest in the A-10 based on their comments.

What do you expect them to say?

"Yeah, we're actually talking to them seriously and we're probably leave but for now, we're still in the CAA."

Hell no. Legally, they can't. Just go back and look at comments from Mizzou, Texas A&M, West Virginia and all the other schools before bolting to other conferences. It's the same wording over and over. All of the discussions are unofficial, probably through some back-channel.

[coasterville95]

Informal talks to be sure.

It's like the coaching carousel. On the record a school and its desired coach "never met" unless there is a leak, or the coach is hired. We've seen that enough to know that generally by the time a school "asks for permission to speak to your coach" the deal is probably already mostly done, expect for working out the details, and maybe that's done.

Same thing here - until your program is darn sure it is ready to make a confernce jump, they have to put on a ruse. The party line is "we are still committed to conference C" when at the same time, they are talking with conference A.

Liken it to a job search, to make it more personal. You have been working for your current firm for awhile, and are in fact doing quite well at it. A bigger, better firm comes along and has a headhunter contact you. I doubt your going to tell anybody at your current firm anything about that, until you are paractically out the door and ready to start at the new place.

In this case the Horizon and the CAA may know full well (or strongly suspect) what is going down, based on whatever credibility they give the sources reporting it. They aren't going to admit that their conference may be unraveling around them, and at the same time they can appear to be doing due dilligence in appearing to quash the rumors.

Look at what happned with the Big East jumpers - the whole issue of the exit fees and lawsuits caused by same didn't suface until they had prety much said they were goine. Temple did a similar thing.

I admit this does start to lose some credibility as more schools get named. It made a lot of sense when it was just Buter to replace Temple. Now GM and VCU to expand to 16 (if only to practively prepare for Charlotte and UMass's departures). I, however, think GM and VCU gain some credibility in two ways, one the Duquesne letter. I'm sure the A10 can't be happy about that letter surfacing, even if it wasn't meant of public consumption. As a member of the conference, surely its AD and by extension the President would be privy to some league secrets, such as what programs may be seeking admission.

The other thing is the CBS tweet was retweeted by Mario. That may have been simply a courtesy retweet of A10 news, or could it be something more. "I wanted to tease Xavier fans with this, and now CBS has opened the door for me to RT this"

CSU and Creighton are stil in "pipe dream" status in my mind. Not much real chatter on thsoe. Going to 18 would just be way to unwieldy though, I mean even the Big East isn't up to 18. Maybe they are planning the departures, and the additions to get to 16. Would make a very strong confernece.

Now, if we could go to Fantasyland and show some traditional bottom feders and RPI drags the door to get back down to 12-14 with all 5 rumored addiitions, that would be a conference for the ages.

[bleedXblue]

What do you expect them to say?

"Yeah, we're actually talking to them seriously and we're probably leave but for now, we're still in the CAA."

Hell no. Legally, they can't. Just go back and look at comments from Mizzou, Texas A&M, West Virginia and all the other schools before bolting to other conferences. It's the same wording over and over. All of the discussions are unofficial, probably through some back-channel.

I expected a more vague answer than:

"VCU athletic director Norwood Teague issued a statement that "there have been no discussions with any other conferences concerning changing our affiliation."

If in fact there have been some overtures and discussion with the A-10, he would have phrase his answer differently.

This tells me nothing has happend so far.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I expected a more vague answer than:

"VCU athletic director Norwood Teague issued a statement that "there have been no discussions with any other conferences concerning changing our affiliation."

If in fact there have been some overtures and discussion with the A-10, he would have phrase his answer differently.

This tells me nothing has happend so far.

I think its all a smokescreen. There is a lot of wiggle room in some of the statements. For instance, if someone says "We are not pursuing any other conferences" it most certainly implies that conferences are pursuing them.

"According to Missouri athletic director Mike Alden, however, Gottlieb's sources were wrong. Alden told Vahe Gregorian that "there's nothing" to Gottlieb's report and his team won't be heading to the SEC."
http://www.sbnation.com/2011/8/13/2361260/sec-expansion-rumors-missouri-clemson-texas-am

"Mizzou AD Mike Alden says "there's nothing" to ESPN report about MU to SEC. "No, no, no." Insists MU not talking to any conferences"
https://twitter.com/#!/vgregorian/status/102386831382941696

"SEC Denies reports of inviting Missouri"....""The Southeastern Conference has not agreed formally or informally to accept any institution other than Texas A&M, and there have not been conference discussions regarding changes in divisional alignments," SEC associate commissioner Charles Bloom said"
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6998589/sec-quashes-reports-inviting-missouri-join

"TCU AD denies Big 12 rumors"

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2011/oct/03/tcu-athletic-director-denies-big-12-rumors/

"Temple denies agreement to move to Big East"
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/3/3/2842143/temple-denies-big-east-move-decision

"SEC: Report of Texas AM accepting invite just not true"
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-08-11/source-report-of-texas-am-accepting-sec-invitation-just-not-true

[muskienick]

I expected a more vague answer than:

"VCU athletic director Norwood Teague issued a statement that "there have been no discussions with any other conferences concerning changing our affiliation."

If in fact there have been some overtures and discussion with the A-10, he would have phrase his answer differently.

This tells me nothing has happend so far.

They don't discuss such topics with the target Conference directly. They go through "middle men" who have loose ties with both their own schools and the Conference in which they have some interest in joining.

Using such a method, they can truthfully say that they have not had discussions "with any other Conferences concerning changing our affiliation." Of course, in similar such instances, those involved have simply chosen to be "less than forthcoming" (i.e. they chose to lie -- think Matta to Ohio State).

[coasterville95]

Can you imagine the commissioner of the CAA if George Mason and VCU are taking the bald face lie approach.

"No, we aren't talking to anybody, we are with the CAA to stay"

(school presidents hang up phones from conference call, walk to respective basketball media rooms, launch carefully timed simultaneous press conferences. "we are excited about our new affiliation with the Atlantic 10"

They may need to put the CAA staff on suicide watch. Of course, if the leaks are this strong, hopefully they are coming up with plan b.



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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?vngc4h

[xavierj]

I will say this. The A-10 is not that awesome of a conference but it has proven to be the top non football basketball conference around over the years. I don't think VCU is paying it's coach in the $1.2 million a year range to stay committed to the CAA. Just my opinion.

[xubrew]

Mason and VCU don't have football teams. I notice that the A10 isn't allegedly talking to any of the schools that do. Butler has football, but its non-scholarship, and it's obviously not a CAA school.

The CAA is the SEC of the FCS (My God, that's a lot of acronyms). I know the Big East is on a larger scale, but football and basketball hybrids aren't always the best marriage. The Atlantic Ten and Colonial could do some realigning and make this work out best for everyone.

...in a perfect world, that is...

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Apparently if VCU and GMU leave for the A10, the Big South is going to get raided like Charlie Sheen at a Cathouse by other conferences

[xubrew]

Apparently if VCU and GMU leave for the A10, the Big South is going to get raided like Charlie Sheen at a Cathouse by other conferences

Why the Big South??

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Why the Big South??

No idea. Some analyst tweeted it earlier today I forgot who

EDIT: Nevermind. It wasn't an analyst or any expert. It was Greg Swaim

[BMoreX]

I expected a more vague answer than:

"VCU athletic director Norwood Teague issued a statement that "there have been no discussions with any other conferences concerning changing our affiliation."

If in fact there have been some overtures and discussion with the A-10, he would have phrase his answer differently.

This tells me nothing has happend so far.

Agree to disagree then.

But from someone who has followed all things conference realignment for over a year now, I firmly believe the A10 has talked to VCU and GMU.

[Muskie]

So... any updates... Butler? VCU? GMU? Creighton? Orchard County Day School? Deveroe's? Who's joining?

[More Cowbell]

So... any updates... Butler? VCU? GMU? Creighton? Orchard County Day School? Deveroe's? Who's joining?

I believe Southwest College and University of Pheonix are joining the Big East.

[xudash]

I believe Southwest College and University of Pheonix are joining the Big East.

I believe the A10 meetings take place in May down here somewhere.

I imagine they're working through the economics of this thing right now.

For as much as some of you believe this is a slam dunk - it probably is a slam dunk for competitive reasons - it may not be as easy to pull off due to the business side of the deal.

There is opportunity cost for Butler (i.e. sharing in the Units from their two runs goes poof with their exit from the Horizon) and their will be real costs to position that program to be competitive in the A10.

The bottom line is they know that conference reshuffling will settle at some point and they don't want to be left out. It's about taking advantage of timing now for them.

All in all, I imagine we could hear something during the end of those conference meetings.

[BMoreX]

Georgia St. of the CAA is moving to the SunBelt for 2013 for football aspirations.

If VCU and GMU ever leave and join the A10, the CAA is going to be severely depleted and in need of teams.

[muskienick]

Georgia St. of the CAA is moving to the SunBelt for 2013 for football aspirations.

If VCU and GMU ever leave and join the A10, the CAA is going to be severely depleted and in need of teams.

We've got two of them that will likely never leave the CAA for "Football Aspirations" --- Fordham and LaSalle.

They are more than welcome to have them and we'll even send all their accrued NCAA units with them as they leave the A-10 while charging them no exit penalty.

We're just nice guys like that!

[Muskie]

Article in Indy Star this morning that says move by Butler is not guaranteed. Worried about travel for other sports.

[xudash]

Butler is a darling candidate now because of its two "darling" runs. If you want to debate me over the notion that those runs were "darling", then knock yourself out. Butler came out of a crappy league, having attracted three unique recruits, in particular (Heyward, Howard and Mack), that, along with a bright young coach and a necessary amount of luck required for almost any program, propelled them to the F4s they made (I know, the second without Heyward).

I have no doubt, given the apparent options out there, that Butler should be the first school to be extended an invitation to join the A10. I get that. I agree with that, again, given the current landscape.

My cautionary point about Butler is that it has pulled off what it has pulled off with Indiana down and as a top dog in a truly crappy conference. There is no way you can project Butler's level of success in the A10 should it join it. You can argue that its recruiting will improve, though a strengthening Indiana will hurt it in its own back yard (i.e. Butler doesn't recruit at Indiana's level generally, but those 3 or 4 stars they thought they could now get are less likely to go to Butler if they come from the Hoosier state). You can argue that its attendance will improve, yet they didn't sellout for our last game there, and they view us as a key rival in this thing. You can preach about Stevens being a homeboy for the duration. I seriously doubt he'll be there in 2 to 3 years.

Butler has both attendance issues and ticket pricing pressure. It truly does not operate at Xavier's scale. It doesn't operate at SLU or UD's scale either. Worse yet, assuming it ultimately raises the $25 million it requires to turn Hinkle from a dump into a nice facility, it does that by taking capacity down to 8,500.

Overall, the point is pretty simple: IF this - the travel expense issue for other sports - is the key roadblock and primary concern, that has to tell you something about Butler's financial horsepower in this area.

Perhaps the bigger point is what it tells you about the A10's ability to respond to change.

Butler is the first option for expansion, but it is no slam dunk as prospective additions go. It's in for a rude awakening with the competition level night in and night out anyway.

[coasterville95]

Well, the good news is Butler is apparently performing due dilligence on what the move would mean to them.

I mean, just think if a current exisitng A10 member school would have just checked into what other schools were in our conference and where they were located, and what it would mean to them in terms of travel given how far they are away from all other schools in conference, before they signed on the dotted line.

Yeah, maybe the conference was somehow secreative about its membership, and even if they told said school who our memebers were, they didn't mention where they were located. Just think what a half hour on the A10 website, and Google Earth would have done for that poor hapless school whose basketball coach is harping on travel time and budget every chance he gets.

[Muskie]

Well, the good news is Butler is apparently performing due dilligence on what the move would mean to them.

I mean, just think if a current exisitng A10 member school would have just checked into what other schools were in our conference and where they were located, and what it would mean to them in terms of travel given how far they are away from all other schools in conference, before they signed on the dotted line.

Yeah, maybe the conference was somehow secreative about its membership, and even if they told said school who our memebers were, they didn't mention where they were located. Just think what a half hour on the A10 website, and Google Earth would have done for that poor hapless school whose basketball coach is harping on travel time and budget every chance he gets.

I noticed that harping about travel time went down considerably this year because that team performed better.