Question

[MHettel]

Is Dedrick Finn running this team right now?

Seriously. Tu Holloway has been the least effective senior leader we've had since Dedrick.

Cage, Doellman, Duncan, Burrell, Dante, BJ. You could argue Brown was a senior.

When you are a senior at XU, you lead. PERIOD.

(I'm not even going to touch Kenny Frease. Not being a leader is the least of my concerns with him.)

[TUclutch]

Is Dedrick Finn running this team right now?

Seriously. Tu Holloway has been the least effective senior leader we've had since Dedrick.

Cage, Doellman, Duncan, Burrell, Dante, BJ. You could argue Brown was a senior.

When you are a senior at XU, you lead. PERIOD.

(I'm not even going to touch Kenny Frease. Not being a leader is the least of my concerns with him.)

You're wrong. Holloway was a great leader and has struggled, as has the whole team, since the brawl. He has had his mind f*cked with over and over by the media, fans, and XU brass since the fight. He is fine and you're wrong on this question

[MHettel]

You're wrong. Holloway was a great leader and has struggled, as has the whole team, since the brawl. He has had his mind f*cked with over and over by the media, fans, and XU brass since the fight. He is fine and you're wrong on this question

Really. He's a senior PG, and he was ground zero in the fight, and somehow he's a leader?

I'd say thats exactly the defintiiton of "not leader." And he hasnt done squat since.

[TUclutch]

Really. He's a senior PG, and he was ground zero in the fight, and somehow he's a leader?

I'd say thats exactly the defintiiton of "not leader." And he hasnt done squat since.

He wasn't ground zero. he talked trash. BIG EFFIN DEAL. Its a part of sports at every level. UC was the team that couldnt handle it and they escalated what was a little talk and two shoves into a full on brawl.

[newtsac]

Admins: Can there just be a special forum for all threads started by MHettle?

[MHettel]

He wasn't ground zero. he talked trash. BIG EFFIN DEAL. Its a part of sports at every level. UC was the team that couldnt handle it and they escalated what was a little talk and two shoves into a full on brawl.

oh, Ok. my bad. i thought this was his senior season. the year where he's the man officially. It's going pretty well for him due to his keen leadership skills. he's got this team really tuned up and firing on all cylinders. His play has been fantastic, too.

Oh, i forgot jason love.

[LadyMuskie]

Is Dedrick Finn running this team right now?

Seriously. Tu Holloway has been the least effective senior leader we've had since Dedrick.

Cage, Doellman, Duncan, Burrell, Dante, BJ. You could argue Brown was a senior.

When you are a senior at XU, you lead. PERIOD.

(I'm not even going to touch Kenny Frease. Not being a leader is the least of my concerns with him.)

Honestly, at this point, short of Tu Holloway turning out to be a reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton, I'm not really sure leadership skills are going to make much of a difference. But, whatever. Dedrick Finn never faced one ounce of the crap Holloway has faced in the last 30 days, nor has Burrell, Brown, Cage, or anyone else for that matter. Mack and Tu are blazing new ground here, and like most cases where you're the first to experience something, it isn't all roses and doilies and it is going to take some time to figure out. If you've been told by the administration to change the way you play the game or tone it down tremendously (and I do believe that that edict has been issued) then you basically have to reinvent the way you play the game but you don't have an off-season in which to do it. So, yeah, Holloway's not going to be the team leader, and frankly, after the nonsense this team has gone through since December 10, I wouldn't want to be labeled as the leader. Winning or not, the hassle and ridiculousness that your own fan base will put you through isn't worth it.

[XU 87]

Really. He's a senior PG, and he was ground zero in the fight, and somehow he's a leader?

I'd say thats exactly the defintiiton of "not leader." And he hasnt done squat since.

It's good to see you've got his back.

[MHettel]

Dedrick Finn never faced one ounce of the crap Holloway has faced in the last 30 days, nor has Burrell, Brown, Cage, or anyone else for that matter.

But you are missing the point. Tu holloway caused it. Tthis is his senior season, and it 's gotten away.

this one is over.

[TUclutch]

But you are missing the point. Tu holloway caused it. Tthis is his senior season, and it 's gotten away.

this one is over.

Tu didnt cause it. A bunch of UC players on their periods caused it when they couldnt handle a little trash talk. XU's brass continued it when they continually apologized for nothing and threw our players under the bus.

[LadyMuskie]

But you are missing the point. Tu holloway caused it. Tthis is his senior season, and it 's gotten away.

this one is over.

No. He didn't cause anything, and if you think he did then you're part of the problem and not the solution!

[XU 87]

Isn't MHettel the same guy who once argued we should leave the A-10 and be an independant?

[Xman95]

Tu didnt cause it. A bunch of UC players on their periods caused it when they couldnt handle a little trash talk. XU's brass continued it when they continually apologized for nothing and threw our players under the bus.

Of course, as a senior, Tu could have just walked away and let the scoreboard do all the talking at the end of that game. Putting it all on UC is the easy way out. But I do agree that XU's brass went overboard and started to treat the fight like something bigger than it was. But maybe that's just because they were trying to counter the media and it's tainted portrayal of the incident. Either way, it seemed there was a great overreaction.

[xsteve1]

First of all Tu should never have been suspended? Tell me why he was suspended? He never received a technical or threw a punch. His psyche has been messed with and I'm sure at 22 most people take time overcome that. You should see some of the comments from people on Yahoo or ESPN (Racist and uncalled for). Heck look at Labron James, the guy can't overcome being called a choke artist. Mack's not the same guy he was either and he's 42. They are under the impression they have ruined X's reputation and some of our wuss alum have made it worse.
I hope Tu come's around and gives everybody a big old shit burger (in the words of Lou Brown).

[MHettel]

First of all Tu should never have been suspended? Tell me why he was suspended? He never received a technical or threw a punch. His psyche has been messed with and I'm sure at 22 most people take time overcome that. You should see some of the comments from people on Yahoo or ESPN (Racist and uncalled for). Heck look at Labron James, the guy can't overcome being called a choke artist. Mack's not the same guy he was either and he's 42. They are under the impression they have ruined X's reputation and some of our wuss alum have made it worse.
I hope Tu come's around and gives everybody a big old shit burger (in the words of Lou Brown).

Why should Tu be suspended/

1. Becausu he instigated the fight. kind of like a guy yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. he's guilty.

2. becasue he portrayed the university in a terrible light, not demonstrating the principals he's been taught for 3.5 years.

Other than that, he did nothing.

[LadyMuskie]

That's true. I had forgotten that Tu yelled "Yancy. Watch it! Frease is coming at you. Better sucker punch him". :rolleyes: Unless he didn't do that, in which case comparing trash talking to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is ludicrous.

[TUclutch]

Why should Tu be suspended/

1. Becausu he instigated the fight. kind of like a guy yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. he's guilty.

2. becasue he portrayed the university in a terrible light, not demonstrating the principals he's been taught for 3.5 years.

Other than that, he did nothing.

You are the exact xavier fan I wish would stay away and not go to games. He did not instigate the fight. Trash talk shouldnt be considered starting a fight. The first contact was made by the UC guy shoving Tu in the face. If you do want to argue that trash talk is instigating it, Tu still wasnt first. Kilpatrick was. Regardless, Tu did nothing that was worthy of a suspension. Trash talking isnt bad. its a part of sports at every level. I talked shit all the way from knothole baseball up to high school sports before I stopped playing because of injury. Its a part of sports and always will be. Get off your high horse

[THRILLHOUSE]

Isn't MHettel the same guy who once argued we should leave the A-10 and be an independant?

lol yes, he is

[TUclutch]

How in the world does mhettel have a positive rep? All Ive seen is him bashing our guys and having wrong opinions on things

[MHettel]

Wrong opinion. interesting concept.

How about just "opinion that is different than yours.'

[Xavier]

Is Dedrick Finn running this team right now?

Seriously. Tu Holloway has been the least effective senior leader we've had since Dedrick.

Cage, Doellman, Duncan, Burrell, Dante, BJ. You could argue Brown was a senior.

When you are a senior at XU, you lead. PERIOD.



Wait, you thought Dante was a leader? We had the same discussion and everyone thought Dante wasn't doing his job like past seniors. Where were you?

[Xman95]

First of all Tu should never have been suspended? Tell me why he was suspended? He never received a technical or threw a punch. His psyche has been messed with and I'm sure at 22 most people take time overcome that. You should see some of the comments from people on Yahoo or ESPN (Racist and uncalled for). Heck look at Labron James, the guy can't overcome being called a choke artist. Mack's not the same guy he was either and he's 42. They are under the impression they have ruined X's reputation and some of our wuss alum have made it worse.
I hope Tu come's around and gives everybody a big old shit burger (in the words of Lou Brown).

I agree that Tu should not have been suspended after the UC game. He did something that players do in every game. Just because UC players reacted in a different manner than most teams doesn't mean Tu should have been penalized. But it was part of the "paint a good image" campaign by the university in the overreaction to one incident. Why didn't they just sit back and tell the media to look at XU's entire body of work over the years? It would have been pretty obvious that this was a one-time thing and just the result of things getting too heated on that particular day. There should have been no need to bow down to the media that wanted to portray the incident as more than it really was.

[TUclutch]

I agree that Tu should not have been suspended after the UC game. He did something that players do in every game. Just because UC players reacted in a different manner than most teams doesn't mean Tu should have been penalized. But it was part of the "paint a good image" campaign by the university in the overreaction to one incident. Why didn't they just sit back and tell the media to look at XU's entire body of work over the years? It would have been pretty obvious that this was a one-time thing and just the result of things getting too heated on that particular day. There should have been no need to bow down to the media that wanted to portray the incident as more than it really was.

This

[SM#24]

Why should Tu be suspended/

1. Becausu he instigated the fight. kind of like a guy yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. he's guilty.

2. becasue he portrayed the university in a terrible light, not demonstrating the principals he's been taught for 3.5 years.

Other than that, he did nothing.

This is some seriously demented shit. Please find another school to support.


You are the exact xavier fan I wish would stay away and not go to games. He did not instigate the fight. Trash talk shouldnt be considered starting a fight. The first contact was made by the UC guy shoving Tu in the face. If you do want to argue that trash talk is instigating it, Tu still wasnt first. Kilpatrick was. Regardless, Tu did nothing that was worthy of a suspension. Trash talking isnt bad. its a part of sports at every level. I talked shit all the way from knothole baseball up to high school sports before I stopped playing because of injury. Its a part of sports and always will be. Get off your high horse

I agree that trash talking is now prevalent in sports, but for me, it's a part of sports that I hate; especially if it's allowed to exist at the youth level. I've never quite gotten the point of it. It seems almost cowardly to me. I always go back to Coach Carter (mediocre movie by the way), "When did it become that winning is not enough ?" Otherwise, I agree with everything you posted, especially bringing up Kilpatrick. If trash talking = suspension, then why wasn't Kilpatrick suspended ? I guess it's OK to trash talk behind someone's back as opposed to directly to their face.


I agree that Tu should not have been suspended after the UC game. He did something that players do in every game. Just because UC players reacted in a different manner than most teams doesn't mean Tu should have been penalized. But it was part of the "paint a good image" campaign by the university in the overreaction to one incident. Why didn't they just sit back and tell the media to look at XU's entire body of work over the years? It would have been pretty obvious that this was a one-time thing and just the result of things getting too heated on that particular day. There should have been no need to bow down to the media that wanted to portray the incident as more than it really was.

Totally agree

[chico]

Isn't MHettel the same guy who once argued we should leave the A-10 and be an independant?

I forgot about that. Thanks for the chuckle.

I think he was also the same guy who insisted on taking walks when playing softball.

[outsideobserver11]

I thought Tu's suspension was a result of the post game media session and not his on the court actions?

[SM#24]

I thought Tu's suspension was a result of the post game media session and not his on the court actions?

Could be, or maybe a combination of both. If it was for the press conference, that's more ludicrous than his on-court behavior. He said nothing wrong.

People really need to actually listen to the whole press conference (it's right out there on YouTube) instead of just select excerpts that the media wants to trump up. I've listened to it over a dozen times and cannot find anything wrong or offensive about anything Tu or Cheeks said.

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

Why should Tu be suspended/

1. Becausu he instigated the fight. kind of like a guy yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. he's guilty.

2. becasue he portrayed the university in a terrible light, not demonstrating the principals he's been taught for 3.5 years.

Other than that, he did nothing.

Did they teach him about interest too?

[MHettel]

I must be in the minority about Tu's suspension. I thought it was warranted.

I guess only the head coach, athletic director and university president agree with me. But those guys dont matter....

[SM#24]

I must be in the minority about Tu's suspension. I thought it was warranted.

I guess only the head coach, athletic director and university president agree with me. But those guys dont matter....

You don't necessarily know that they agree with you. Leaders of all organizations often times takes actions they do not agree with but do so out of political correctness or to appease the masses (the only exception being the leaders of Augusta National).

[DC Muskie]

this one is over.

Are you going to stop posting about this season then?

Because if you think "this one is done" then that should mean you have nothing more to say.

So I'm hoping that despite your overall stupidity, you will at least live by the words you feel so strongly about.

[Kahns Krazy]

Could be, or maybe a combination of both. If it was for the press conference, that's more ludicrous than his on-court behavior. He said nothing wrong.

People really need to actually listen to the whole press conference (it's right out there on YouTube) instead of just select excerpts that the media wants to trump up. I've listened to it over a dozen times and cannot find anything wrong or offensive about anything Tu or Cheeks said.

This. Every time someone brings up "ganstas" to me, I ask them if they have actually listened to the press conference. When they say "no", I tell them I'll be happy to talk about it once they have, but until then, then have no idea what they are talking about.

[Sweet16andBust]

This. Every time someone brings up "ganstas" to me, I ask them if they have actually listened to the press conference. When they say "no", I tell them I'll be happy to talk about it once they have, but until then, then have no idea what they are talking about.

I listened to the press conference. I believe Tu said that the beef started a few days before when someone "was talking trash on Twitter."

[THRILLHOUSE]

I listened to the press conference. I believe Tu said that the beef started a few days before when someone "was talking trash on Twitter."

I believe Tu was referring to Kilpatrick's radio comments which Tu heard about on Twitter.

[Sweet16andBust]

I believe Tu was referring to Kilpatrick's radio comments which Tu heard about on Twitter.

But then Holloway said it started on the court when he was yelling at the UC bench and staff that "this is my city."

[SM#24]

I listened to the press conference. I believe Tu said that the beef started a few days before when someone "was talking trash on Twitter."


I believe Tu was referring to Kilpatrick's radio comments which Tu heard about on Twitter.


But then Holloway said it started on the court when he was yelling at the UC bench and staff that "this is my city."

Tu did not say it "started" with that. His comments were in direct response to a question asking him what he said to the UC bench after the last possession.

[Sweet16andBust]

Tu did not say it "started" with that. His comments were in direct response to a question asking him what he said to the UC bench after the last possession.

And after he explained that incident of him yelling he ended it with "yea, I guess it all started after I said that."

[BballFan]

There's a reason why UC has been able to move on and go 7-0 since the fight. Cronin did the right thing by not allowing his players to speak to the media, and immediately addressing the media himself to make it known that this kind of behavior is not acceptable. Mack did the wrong thing by not immediately addressing the media, but allowing his players to tell the media "this is what you are going to see between UC and Xavier", and "we are a bunch of ganstas". I don't care what you or him wants the public to believe he meant when he said "ganstas", it was a word he used and was the wrong choice of words for that particular moment. That is why Mack should have taken control like Cronin did and give his players a chance to cool down while he himself addressed the media. Blame your horrible coach for the problem if you don't want to blame Holloway and Lyons.

[BballFan]

Of course I also realize that the fight isn't the reason Xavier is losing games. If you look at the games they played prior to the fight, many of them where very close games. At least 2 of the games they were down by double digits late in the 2nd half and happened to come back. Xavier was never deserving of a #8 ranking and it's all shaking out in the long haul. Sure, they might have potential, but their coach is awful.

[MuskiePimp23]

Of course I also realize that the fight isn't the reason Xavier is losing games. If you look at the games they played prior to the fight, many of them where very close games. At least 2 of the games they were down by double digits late in the 2nd half and happened to come back. Xavier was never deserving of a #8 ranking and it's all shaking out in the long haul. Sure, they might have potential, but their coach is awful.

Many were close games last year too and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. How many close games do good teams win? So if you win by 1 or 100 does it count any differently? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A win is a win is a win is a win is a win you idiot. The fact of the matter is we were winning our games, some in ugly fashion, but great teams find ways to win early on. Style points happen towards the end of the year. We have been the team under former coaches that looked like world beaters in December only to bow out like a lamb in March. I would rather be the team that can overcome not playing the greatest and win early and get better and produce more "style point wins" later on in the year into March and April. You are AWFULLY stupid aren't you?

[DC Muskie]

People really need to actually listen to the whole press conference (it's right out there on YouTube) instead of just select excerpts that the media wants to trump up. I've listened to it over a dozen times and cannot find anything wrong or offensive about anything Tu or Cheeks said.

I swear I thought I was the only person who thought this. I almost had a huge fight with a fellow Xavier fan about it on New Year's Eve.

I am amazed someone like Doc has a job because he is so capable of listening to Cronin and decide that Mick has written the text book on how to handle something like this, but Cheeks and Tu were idiots.