View Full Version : UC Suspensions Announced
MuskieFN
12-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Per Jeff Goodman twitter:
"Cincinnati just announced suspensions: Gates, Mbodj and Ellis each got 6 and Guyn got one game. Not enough for Gates."
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 01:56 PM
ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
UC makes right call Gates,Ellis,Mbodj suspended for 6 games Guyn for one still waiting for Xavier to do something significant too
Wow....You must have to kill a man to get suspended 10 games if a stomping on someone's face is only 6.
xudash
12-11-2011, 01:56 PM
Per Jeff Goodman twitter:
"Cincinnati just announced suspensions: Gates, Mbodj and Ellis each got 6 and Guyn got one game. Not enough for Gates."
This makes Cronin look like an IDIOT!!!
6 games!
BBC 08
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
Not even close to enough for Gates and Mbodj.
xu2010
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
Makes Mick Cronin's words sound a little hollow....I'd be surprised to see more than suspensions for Dez and Lyons now.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
Per Jeff Goodman twitter:
"Cincinnati just announced suspensions: Gates, Mbodj and Ellis each got 6 and Guyn got one game. Not enough for Gates."
You know Parker for UC clearly threw punches and is not suspended. Interesting.
MuskieFN
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
And here's UC's release...
Dec. 11, 2011
CINCINNATI - The University of Cincinnati today announced the suspension of four men's basketball student-athletes for their participation in a fight that brought a premature end to Saturday's game at Xavier University.
Yancy Gates, Octavius Ellis and Cheikh Mbodj will each be suspended for a total of six games and Ge'Lawn Guyn for one game. The suspensions will take effect immediately and will be concurrent with the NCAA-standard one-game mandated suspensions that would be applied to Gates and Mbodj for ejections from the game for fighting.
"After reviewing all available video and giving due deliberation to the seriousness of this behavior, we have decided to take these actions," said UC athletic director Whit Babcock. "We want to deal with this in a prompt and direct manner and send the message that we will not tolerate this from those who have the privilege of representing the University of Cincinnati."
"We have advised the BIG EAST Conference of our decision and the measures we're taking. I'm thankful for the full support of (UC) President (Gregory H.) Williams and (UC men's basketball head coach) Mick Cronin."
"Further, I want to apologize to our students, alumni, faculty and staff, as well as to our fans and community. We hold our student-athletes to a very high standard and take very seriously the role that our entire department plays in reflecting the overall image of this great university. We will continue to work diligently to represent the Bearcat family and the Cincinnati community in a first-class manner. There will be zero tolerance for a repeat of this behavior."
http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121111aaa.html
danaandvictory
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
I wonder if the national press will be rescinding a bit of their praise for Saint Mick.
Meanwhile, radio silence out of Xavier. I don't understand it.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Ha Mick is a hypocrite.
And really, it's only a 5 game suspension for Gates/Mdobj because of the automatic one for being ejected.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Makes Mick Cronin's words sound a little hollow....I'd be surprised to see more than suspensions for Dez and Lyons now.
Why he was upset they got killed, not because of the fight. Look when the fight broke out, he did not try to stop anyone and to be honest I think he was happy Frease got cut open.
xudash
12-11-2011, 02:00 PM
I wonder if the national press will be rescinding a bit of their praise for Saint Mick.
Meanwhile, radio silence out of Xavier. I don't understand it.
There's nothing to understand.
It wasn't a race to see who came out first.
We're working on it and Father Mike will step to the microphone when he's ready.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:01 PM
Meanwhile, radio silence out of Xavier. I don't understand it.
It is Sunday, and our President is a priest. Until about 1:00, I would imagine he has more important duties on Sundays.
paulxu
12-11-2011, 02:01 PM
There will be zero tolerance for a repeat of this behavior."
That's pretty easy. I think the NCAA automatically suspends you for the rest of the year if there is a second incident.
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 02:02 PM
It's way more important than basketball games. I made everybody take their jersey off, and they will not put it on again until they have a full understanding of where they go to school and what the university stands for and how lucky they are to even be there, let alone have a scholarship.
They're all sitting in there with no jersey on. Some of them I physically took it off."
Apparently, the period of time necessary to gain that understanding is 6 games. What is that about actions speaking louder than words?
XUHardy
12-11-2011, 02:02 PM
What an utter travesty! Gates should be in jail for assault right now. The good news is that if they are going this light, we might be able to walk out of this thing with no suspensions - maybe bench Dez for the first half of ORU game.
danaandvictory
12-11-2011, 02:04 PM
It is Sunday, and our President is a priest. Until about 1:00, I would imagine he has more important duties on Sundays.
Heh, I never even thought of that.
Porkopolis
12-11-2011, 02:05 PM
The media needs to take back their effusive praise of Mick and UC. Not suspending Gates and Mbodj longer is kind of shocking.
XMuskieFTW
12-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Press conference scheduled for 4:15
oddblob
12-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Cronin sounding very hollow indeed.
Not nearly enough games for Gates.
Turd Ferguson
12-11-2011, 02:06 PM
What an utter travesty! Gates should be in jail for assault right now. The good news is that if they are going this light, we might be able to walk out of this thing with no suspensions - maybe bench Dez for the first half of ORU game.
Xavier isn't walking away without suspensions, expect XU to match or one up UC
SixFig
12-11-2011, 02:07 PM
Noted UC apologist Michael DeCourcy leaps to Micks defense
@DaveTelep Six games is the longest disciplinary suspension I can remember in college basketball.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 02:08 PM
Here are the games Gates will miss. I would imagine they will win at least 4 of those games. They wouldn't beat Pitt regardless if Gates plays.
at Wright St.
Home Radford
Home AR Pine Bluff
Home Chicago St.
Home Oklahoma
at (15) Pittsburgh
xucub
12-11-2011, 02:08 PM
6 games. Just in time to have all the thugs back for the big least schedule. Hell, last year Cronin benched Gates for 3 games just because he was pissed at him. I am so tired of my tax dollars going to support prisons and jails, and then having more taken to support the other school/workhouse in my hometown. (I cannot even bring myself to say their name.)
Blueblob4life
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
Remember, the Big East is also reviewing the fight and can levy penalties as well if they feel that UC didn't do enough. Not sure that'll matter much, but this is an utter travesty.
SixFig
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
Unfortunately, Xavier is going to try to match UC even though XU players didn't do as much, Xavier will try to uphold its reputation by slamming down.
I hope this is not the case.
newtsac
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
The media needs to take back their effusive praise of Mick and UC. Not suspending Gates and Mbodj longer is kind of shocking.
Don't worry P Doc, et al and ESPN won't even report on this. It will be lucky to get regional coverage.
Best post game interview wins on this one... Damnit.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:09 PM
You know Parker for UC clearly threw punches and is not suspended. Interesting.
Everyone who officially fought (mandatory suspension, and why people care about "threw punches") -- Wells, Gates, Mbodj. That's it.
That said, Gates suspension is crap.
waggy
12-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Xavier isn't walking away without suspensions, expect XU to match or one up UC
For what? Why do you want to allow the UC assholes to ruin X's season?
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:11 PM
Xavier isn't walking away without suspensions, expect XU to match or one up UC
I don't know how or why you match two completely different situations.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 02:12 PM
ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Big east not adding any more games says it is supporting cincinnati
Typical.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 02:12 PM
Everyone who officially fought (mandatory suspension, and why people care about "threw punches") -- Wells, Gates, Mbodj. That's it.
That said, Gates suspension is crap.
So you are of the opinion that only Wells will get a suspension?
newtsac
12-11-2011, 02:13 PM
So you are of the opinion that only Wells will get a suspension?
MANDATORY one game. At least.
BBC 08
12-11-2011, 02:13 PM
Cronin and UC are getting ripped on twitter right now.
Turd Ferguson
12-11-2011, 02:13 PM
For what? Why do you want to allow the UC assholes to ruin X's season?
I don't want that to happen and I think this whole situation is BS. I think Lyons should get a game and Wells should get 2 for the punches they threw. I'm just stating how I think Xavier is going to react. They'll want to take the high road and it's gonna hurt our season.
XUOWNSUC
12-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Cronin and UC are getting ripped on twitter right now.
By who?
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 02:14 PM
http://rushthecourt.net/mag/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/frease-bloodied.jpg
Yup. Six games sounds reasonable.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Honestly, yes. You can find it in another thread, but I think he'll get two games -- one from the NCAA, one from Xavier. The rest of the discipline -- Mack, Lyons, Holloway, others -- will happen internally.
My opinion will change if the NCAA suspends additional XU players for fighting
Blueblob4life
12-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Remember, the Big East is also reviewing the fight and can levy penalties as well if they feel that UC didn't do enough. Not sure that'll matter much, but this is an utter travesty.
ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Big east not adding any more games says it is supporting cincinnati
Typical.
Well there goes what I said.
Such BS.
newtsac
12-11-2011, 02:15 PM
http://rushthecourt.net/mag/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/frease-bloodied.jpg
Yup. Six games sounds reasonable.
Never forget. Mick only gave 5.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 02:16 PM
So you can assault a person on a basketball court and get suspended for only 6 games.
Good to know.
oddblob
12-11-2011, 02:16 PM
I'll believe this when I see it. I really don' see anyone getting near 6 games.
I don't want that to happen and I think this whole situation is BS. I think Lyons should get a game and Wells should get 2 for the punches they threw. I'm just stating how I think Xavier is going to react. They'll want to take the high road and it's gonna hurt our season.
Blueblob4life
12-11-2011, 02:17 PM
So you can assault a person on a basketball court and get suspended for only 6 games.
Good to know.
If they fight again, they're automatically done per NCAA rule.
BBC 08
12-11-2011, 02:17 PM
By who?
By most of the national cbb media.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 02:17 PM
There's a reason "Cronin" auto-corrects to "criminal" on a smart phone.
danaandvictory
12-11-2011, 02:17 PM
Jeff Goodman:
http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/33798901
Cronin talked about how these kids need to appreciate the value of education, how they need to act accordingly - or they won't ever be allowed to put on a Bearcats uniform.
He had an opportunity to follow-through with his strong message in the post-game news conference - one that was applauded by nearly everyone.
Then he opted not to follow-through on his strong statements, and hit Gates, who did his best Mike Tyson impression when he sent Frease to the canvas, with just six games.
I understand that it was a mistake, one Gates would love to take back. But it's not as though Gates has been the model citizen, either. He's been suspended by Cronin previously - and the penalty should have been more severe for this transgression.
But winning is more important to Cronin. At least that's what his actions said.
He needs Gates, especially when Big East play rolls around.
Gates will miss games against Wright State, Radford, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Chicago State, Oklahoma and Pittsburgh.
That's a grand total of one conference game.
THRILLHOUSE
12-11-2011, 02:18 PM
What a joke. Way to stay tough Mickey.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:20 PM
I'll believe this when I see it. I really don' see anyone getting near 6 games.
I think Wells might miss Hawaii (4 games). I don't think anyone else will get close to that many.
wvmuskie420
12-11-2011, 02:21 PM
goodman from cbs has already put an article up with the title: Cronin's words were just that::words.
HuskyMuskie
12-11-2011, 02:22 PM
A great way, and perhaps the only way to get our PR on the right track and save some face in all of this, would be to give Dez Wells 6 games.
At Xavier, you get 6 games for pushing somebody and throwing (and not connecting) with one punch.
At Cincinnati, if you punch multiple people in the face, or curb stomp a player until he bleeds, you get 6 games.
It would be a great way to look like the better organization.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:23 PM
No one in the media will care what XU's discipline is now. Not that that should have ever have had any effect on XU's decision.
MuskieFN
12-11-2011, 02:24 PM
goodman from cbs has already put an article up with the title: Cronin's words were just that::words.
Gary Parrish too...
Mick Cronin killed it yesterday in that press conference. Now let me say this: Six games for Yancy Gates is not enough.
http://twitter.com/#!/GaryParrishCBS/status/145945894926303232
newtsac
12-11-2011, 02:24 PM
A great way, and perhaps the only way to get our PR on the right track and save some face in all of this, would be to give Dez Wells 6 games.
At Xavier, you get 6 games for pushing somebody and throwing (and not connecting) with one punch.
At Cincinnati, if you punch multiple people in the face, or curb stomp a player until he bleeds, you get 6 games.
It would be a great way to look like the better organization.
Let's just be clear, UC only gives 5 game suspensions for this.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:24 PM
It would be a great way to look like the better organization.
Or a good way to demonstrate petty one-upmanship and throwing a kid under a bus.
waggy
12-11-2011, 02:25 PM
I care that people know that X is the better basketball team. 23 points better than the barecats exactly. Oh how that hurt them.
DC Muskie
12-11-2011, 02:26 PM
Or a good way to demonstrate petty one-upmanship and throwing a kid under a bus.
Yeah really.
oddblob
12-11-2011, 02:26 PM
I'll eat my hat if Wells gets 6.
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 02:27 PM
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/FREASEPUNCH.gif
Never forget. Six games. We are UC; the paragons of integrity.
Cheesehead
12-11-2011, 02:28 PM
Absolutely ridiculous! Mick is the biggest phony DB in college basketball. 6 games? are you f-ing kidding me? UC is a joke. Dez should get 2 games then. Everyone else for X should get 1 game only.
Oh, and I hate UC.
It's 2:27 p.m. and UC still sucks!
If Nancy did that on the street, he would be looking at 6 months not 6 games.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Yesterday, Mick Cronin had me concerned that my understanding of the world was somehow topsy-turvy, that someone in the UC basketball program might actually care about consequences of actions.
I guess its refreshing to know that that's not the case at least.
UC: Scheduling cupcakes in the non-conference so we can suspend our players for them. But losing the games anyway.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Never forget. Six games. We are UC; the paragons of integrity.
I wonder how many posters on a UC board have the image of Yancy throwing that punch as their avatar now.
XURunner85
12-11-2011, 02:30 PM
My take is that Wells will get 4 to 6 games suspended, Lyons, who I think threw punches on video, will get 2 to 4 games, Tu will get 1 game for his trash talking and Frease will be done for the year for allowing himself to get sucker punch and kicked while on the floor as he was trying to pull teammates back from the scuffle......obviously that is my sarcastic joke...no harm..no foul....please do not suspend me from here for any time...
ForTUitous
12-11-2011, 02:30 PM
As upset as it makes me that Yancy isn't gone for longer it sets a precedent. Xavier players shouldn't be suspended nearly as long then.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 02:31 PM
Presser at 4:15, per Shannon Russell.
newtsac
12-11-2011, 02:32 PM
As upset as it makes me that Yancy isn't gone for longer it sets a precedent. Xavier players shouldn't be suspended nearly as long then.
Buck the trend. Do what's right. Dez misses Hawaii and Lyons and or Tu miss one.
Cheesehead
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
My take is that Wells will get 4 to 6 games suspended, Lyons, who I think threw punches on video, will get 2 to 4 games, Tu will get 1 game for his trash talking and Frease will be done for the year for allowing himself to get sucker punch and kicked while on the floor as he was trying to pull teammates back from the scuffle......obviously that is my sarcastic joke...no harm..no foul....please do not suspend me from here for any time...
4-6 games? Dez should get 2-3 max. Gates should not even be allowed to play again, period. At a minimum, 10 games. UC is a f-ing joke!
Muskie1000
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
I'll eat my hat if Wells gets 6.
I would like to watch that.
GuyFawkes38
12-11-2011, 02:33 PM
How on earth could Wells be given 4-6 when Gates just received 6???!!!!
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 02:34 PM
slrussell Shannon Russell
Athletic director Mike Bobinksi will make a statement and coach Chris Mack will answer questions. #xavier
Shannon Russell
The presser will be streamed live at GoXavier.com. #xavier
Blueblob4life
12-11-2011, 02:34 PM
A great way, and perhaps the only way to get our PR on the right track and save some face in all of this, would be to give Dez Wells 6 games.
At Xavier, you get 6 games for pushing somebody and throwing (and not connecting) with one punch.
At Cincinnati, if you punch multiple people in the face, or curb stomp a player until he bleeds, you get 6 games.
It would be a great way to look like the better organization.
Completely disagree. Unnecessary to have a one-up contest with "that team" to show how you properly punish improper actions. That does nothing, especially since our biggest fault was all the shit talking (except Dez). Dez can miss Hawaii, but that's about it. We don't need to show them up and hurt ourselves more than they deserved to.
Muskie1000
12-11-2011, 02:36 PM
missing Hawaii is punishment enough. Imagine having to stay here, in cold icky Cincinnati while your teammates are in 80+ degree weather.
XURunner85
12-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Reason I saw 4 to 6 is X is going to make sure that no one (meaning media) can come back and say X is condoning what happened by giving out far less punsihment. I do believe he will have less than 6 but I believe X will have to give out 1 harsh suspension due to being a Catholic school. They do not want to be called hypocrytes...
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:37 PM
I found this in Shannon Russell's twitter, from SI's Bill Trocchi:
Festus Ezili gets six games for accepting a hotel room. Yancy Gates gets six games for punching two players in the face.
It also touches on the absurdity of the NCAA for caring so much about this notion of "amateurism" more than its players that Porkopolis and I were discussing yesterday.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 02:37 PM
Buck the trend. Do what's right. Dez misses Hawaii and Lyons and or Tu miss one.
Again why will TU miss a game? I am confused. Did he hit someone?
GuyFawkes38
12-11-2011, 02:38 PM
I'm sick of all this PR shit.
X shouldn't play the game. Watch the video and levy the correct punishment. Don't try to outdo UC.
xavierj
12-11-2011, 02:38 PM
Reason I saw 4 to 6 is X is going to make sure that no one (meaning media) can come back and say X is condoning what happened by giving out far less punsihment. I do believe he will have less than 6 but I believe X will have to give out 1 harsh suspension due to being a Catholic school. They do not want to be called hypocrytes...
Yeah making decisions so people do not think poorly of your decision is always the way to handle it. Hey cancel the season and you will look like hero's.
XURunner85
12-11-2011, 02:39 PM
I would hate to see Tu get one game, because they all trash talk in just about every game or at least all big games...but it was his final trash talk that made uc cry....I hope he doesn't get one but I would not be surprise if he does...
Blueblob4life
12-11-2011, 02:39 PM
missing Hawaii is punishment enough. Imagine having to stay here, in cold icky Cincinnati while your teammates are in 80+ degree weather.
With a bunch of fine women too.
paulxu
12-11-2011, 02:40 PM
It's hard to predict what impact this has on our school looking at our situation.
It's agreed Yate's penalty wasn't severe enough by the talking heads, but there's a curious back ground from it.
Only one game into conference, and obviously with the prior blessing of the Big East.
What else?
Back up player gets 6 for the kick. Ellis (played no minutes) gets 6 (for what? fighting?). Back up player Guyn gets 1.
Rather than let us give out less suspensions for less egrigous behavior, does it compel us to give out longer ones to seem just as demanding as UC? Is there some expectation now for us to match the Ellis suspension?
I don't like this at all.
oddblob
12-11-2011, 02:42 PM
There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for Tu to miss a game. Trash talking is the norm in these kinds of games.
Should B.Rad miss one too because at one point it seemed like he had to be held back? Good lord.
Drew's Crew
12-11-2011, 02:47 PM
Yean you can't suspend Tu for talking shit. He can be punished behind the scenes in other ways.
From players I have talked to, Mack is apparently big on private criticism and punishments.
paulxu
12-11-2011, 02:50 PM
And another thing....UC "issues" a statement.
XU will have a press conference to answer questions.
What is UC afraid of?
Reporter: "Coach Cronin...do you think 6 game is enough?"
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:50 PM
IMO, Tu is definitely going to be suspended.
X-band '01
12-11-2011, 02:51 PM
Nah, Brad should be suspended for not TAKING a punch.
Once a gnome, always a gnome Mick. You had a golden oppoerunity to take the high moral ground and you just went for a golden shower instead by pissing on your leg. Just don't tell us it's raining.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 02:52 PM
Ellis (played no minutes) gets 6 (for what? fighting?)
BBC 08 poster a link to this breakdown: http://bearcatsblog.com/2011-article...the-fight.html
Ellis gets 6 for coming off the bench to go after Lyons to settle their previous grudge, creating a whole different fight.
Its like saying "Oh snap, Bob and Rick are throwing down, now's my chance to *($# up Pete."
XU 87
12-11-2011, 02:54 PM
A great way, and perhaps the only way to get our PR on the right track and save some face in all of this, would be to give Dez Wells 6 games.
At Xavier, you get 6 games for pushing somebody and throwing (and not connecting) with one punch.
At Cincinnati, if you punch multiple people in the face, or curb stomp a player until he bleeds, you get 6 games.
It would be a great way to look like the better organization.
I want X to do give what is fair and appropriate punishment. I don't want to unfairly penalize a player, and therefore the team, in order to make a "statement" to simply make the university look good to the media.
Tu got this thing going by the silly trash talking at the end. But I have a hard time suspending a player by what he says in a post game press conference.
Wells acted stupidly and inappropriately by 1) pushing the guy who pushed Tu and 2)throwing a punch at the guy who tried to punch Lyons.
Lyons was wrong for firing the punches at the guy who threw the first punch.
In short, Xavier acted in response to the violence of UC. But that's a mitigating factor. It doesn't justify what the X players did.
X-band '01
12-11-2011, 02:55 PM
Anyone up for a special edition of Live Chat around 4 PM? I think I can be in the glass house by then.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:55 PM
Well 4, Lyons 2, Tu 1. That's my guess.
xu_fan
12-11-2011, 02:56 PM
If nothing else TU should get one game for talking trash to the coaches of UC... Regardless of what we think of the midget it's just entirely too disrespectful for Mack to let slide IMO. Sets really bad precedent for our players... I read a quote this morning that quoted TU saying he was talking trash to the entire bench including the coaches. Now that jut looks bad.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:57 PM
If nothing else TU should get one game for talking trash to the coaches of UC... Regardless of what we think of the midget it's just entirely too disrespectful for Mack to let slide IMO. Sets really bad precedent for our players... I read a quote this morning that quoted TU saying he was talking trash to the entire bench including the coaches. Now that jut looks bad.
And at the end with a 23 point win, it's not just trash talking. It's rubbing it in, and it's in extremely poor taste.
XU 87
12-11-2011, 02:57 PM
IMO, Tu is definitely going to be suspended.
I think so as well. But not for his comments in the presser but for getting this entire sorry thing going by getting in a guy's face for no reasonable reason.
Cheesehead
12-11-2011, 02:57 PM
Wells: 4 games
Tu: 1 game
Lyons: 3 games
Walk-on who threw punch at Gates: 1 game
anything more than this and I will put some folks in a body bag:p
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
I think so as well. But not for his comments in the presser but for getting this entire sorry thing going by getting in a guy's face for no reasonable reason.
Agree, but he might have avoided a suspension with a better press conference performance.
waggy
12-11-2011, 02:58 PM
You guys suck. I think everyone should get extra games. Screw UC.
D-West & PO-Z
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
I want X to do give what is fair and appropriate punishment. I don't want to unfairly penalize a player, and therefore the team, in orer to make a "statement" to simply make the university look good to the media.Tu got this thing going by the silly trash talking at the end. But I have a hard time suspending a player by what he says in a post game press conference.
Wells acted stupidly and inappropriately by 1) pushing the guy who pushed Tu and 2)throwing a punch at the guy who tried to punch Lyons.
Lyons was wrong for firing the punches at the guy who threw the first punch.
In short, Xavier acted in response to the violence of UC. But that's a mitigating factor. It doesn't justify what the X players did.
Ya, I agree with this, especially the bolded part. I dont think there is any need to be more harsh to look better or to outdo UC. The UC players actions were worse, they should be suspended more. Way more than the joke of 6 games. I thought that #13 should have ben kcked out of school for stomping Kenny while he was down. What a joke Mick, way to totally back pedal on the comments yesterday. UC is a joke.
Muskiefornia
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Tu suspension for talking and not fighting. A technical would not have even been assessed against him in the game, the refs just would have separated them and warned them a la Lyons in the first half. Suspension?!?!?!
smileyy
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Agree, but he might have avoided a suspension with a better press conference performance.
Mack put those guys out there, knowing they'd say what they meant to say.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Mack put those guys out there, knowing they'd say what they meant to say.
And I could see Mack out a game, too.
smileyy
12-11-2011, 03:01 PM
A technical would not have even been assessed against [Tu] in the game
If Wells hadn't shoved Guyn(?), I suspect Tu and Guyn would have gotten double technicals.
Cheesehead
12-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Mack put those guys out there, knowing they'd say what they meant to say.
ok, 6 game suspension for mack then.
D-West & PO-Z
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
I think this:
Wells: will get more than one, so they will prolly just make it 4 and keep him home from Maui
Lyons: 1-2
TU: 0-1
xuwin
12-11-2011, 03:03 PM
So you are of the opinion that only Wells will get a suspension?
I think Xavier will be more concerned with the post game interviews than their involvement in the incident itself. Holloway's involvement in the incident was minimal, but, his words did not represent the University well.
waggy
12-11-2011, 03:04 PM
I read a quote this morning that quoted TU saying he was talking trash to the entire bench including the coaches. Now that jut looks bad.
"How you like my left hand now bitch" is trash?
Muskiefornia
12-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Ok. Then no suspension right?
smileyy
12-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Suspend the entire team for the NIT, CBI and CIT. Make them miss the games that matter.
DoubleD86
12-11-2011, 03:12 PM
I haven't read the entire thread but I am sure I am in the minority here:
Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with it. I think Gates and Cheik should have gotten 8-10 games each, Ellis at 6 sounds right, Guyn at 1 is right. I think they went light on Gates and Cheik but overall not bad.
Also, I don't think this should have ANY impact on the suspensions we give out. If we felt player A deserved a suspension of X, they still deserve that suspension. Period.
I know I am on the Harsher end, but I feel it should be:
Wells 5 for the move that really escalated it and then throwing punches
Lyons 1-2 for throwing punches. I think the fact he was hit first and the fact he was a major peacekeeper in the end should be taken into account.
Amos 1 for punches thrown and entering the fight
Tu 1. I know this will be different from most but he started it, admitted to starting it, showed no remorse, and had a terrible press conference.
**Disclaimer: I have no problem with him not being suspended, just think 1 would be right**
Frease 1 for yelling with UC fans at end/altercation with UC coach's wife
XU 87
12-11-2011, 03:14 PM
And I could see Mack out a game, too.
I would find it hard to believe that a coach would get suspended because his players said dumb things in a press conference.
Cheesehead
12-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Katz is blasting UC right now. Stated "6 games not nearly enough"
suggested that they move game to neutral site
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Katz is blasting UC right now. Stated "6 games not nearly enough"
suggested that they move game to neutral site
I've heard this suggested, but really, it's not like the fans are having brawls in the stands. Sure we hate each other, but I think what he's forgetting is that both teams hate each other.
Can't fix that with a neutral court.
boozehound
12-11-2011, 03:23 PM
I haven't read the entire thread but I am sure I am in the minority here:
Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with it. I think Gates and Cheik should have gotten 8-10 games each, Ellis at 6 sounds right, Guyn at 1 is right. I think they went light on Gates and Cheik but overall not bad.
Also, I don't think this should have ANY impact on the suspensions we give out. If we felt player A deserved a suspension of X, they still deserve that suspension. Period.
I know I am on the Harsher end, but I feel it should be:
Wells 5 for the move that really escalated it and then throwing punches
Lyons 1-2 for throwing punches. I think the fact he was hit first and the fact he was a major peacekeeper in the end should be taken into account.
Amos 1 for punches thrown and entering the fight
Tu 1. I know this will be different from most but he started it, admitted to starting it, showed no remorse, and had a terrible press conference.
**Disclaimer: I have no problem with him not being suspended, just think 1 would be right**
Frease 1 for yelling with UC fans at end/altercation with UC coach's wife
So for you Wells gets essentially the same punishment as the guy who stomped on another guy's head while he was on the ground, and a guy with a history of violence who punched multiple players in the face? Wow.
boozehound
12-11-2011, 03:23 PM
I've heard this suggested, but really, it's not like the fans are having brawls in the stands. Sure we hate each other, but I think what he's forgetting is that both teams hate each other.
Can't fix that with a neutral court.
It seems that they should consider banning Mick Cronin's family from future shootouts though.
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 03:24 PM
So for you Wells gets essentially the same punishment as the guy who stomped on another guy's head while he was on the ground, and a guy with a history of violence who punched multiple players in the face? Wow.
And, overall, that would be 4 of our starting 5 suspended. That is one hell of a message sent.
BMoreX
12-11-2011, 03:24 PM
It seems that they should consider banning Mick Cronin's family from future shootouts though.
Can't argue with that one. They were unreal.
DoubleD86
12-11-2011, 03:25 PM
So for you Wells gets essentially the same punishment as the guy who stomped on another guy's head while he was on the ground, and a guy with a history of violence who punched multiple players in the face? Wow.
No, I think both of those guys got let off too easy. However, I don't think we suspend based off of UC's suspensions. I felt Wells deserved 4-5 and Gates/Cheik 8-10 games. Just because UC didn't suspend Wells as harshly as expected (and are getting blasted for it) doesn't mean we lessen our expectations of our players.
If his offenses deserved 5 yesterday they deserve 5 today.
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 03:25 PM
I've heard this suggested, but really, it's not like the fans are having brawls in the stands. Sure we hate each other, but I think what he's forgetting is that both teams hate each other.
Can't fix that with a neutral court.
If they move it to a neutral site, there might be brawling in the stands. It would be worse.
DoubleD86
12-11-2011, 03:27 PM
And, overall, that would be 4 of our starting 5 suspended. That is one hell of a message sent.
I agree but for most of those it would be Oral Roberts. A team we should be able to beat without them and even if we don't, who cares its one game.
Also, I would be ok if they were staggered (if possible). Maybe suspend Tu and Lyons for different games.
Either way, I think the actions deserve suspensions based on their actions, not who else gets suspended by UC or XU. Doing such begins to move to the realm of suspending so not to lose, not suspending to punish and teach a lesson.
Also, as stated, I would have no problem with Tu not getting suspended, I just feel he probably deserves one.
Muskiefornia
12-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Maybe we should focus with the emerging River Rivalry with NKU.
Muskie1000
12-11-2011, 03:34 PM
I've thought about what happens if they move to the game to a neutral site - does the host team (home team) get a lion's share of the tickets/profits or is it going to be evenly split. If it's evenly split, how to decide who gets the tickets - season ticket holders only or general public. I think that's a big concern about having it at a neutral location, is how to do it fairly. Its quite different when you play at US Bank when a team comes in from out of town, they won't buy alot of tickets anyway.
BiggieXU
12-11-2011, 03:34 PM
"Xavier will suspend Landen Amos and Dez Wells four games each, Mark Lyons two games, and Tu Holloway one game, a source told ESPN.com Sunday. Xavier has called a news conference for Sunday afternoon."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7341744/cincinnati-bearcats-suspend-four-players-brawl-xavier-musketeers
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 03:36 PM
"Xavier will suspend Landen Amos and Dez Wells four games each, Mark Lyons two games, and Tu Holloway one game, a source told ESPN.com Sunday. Xavier has called a news conference for Sunday afternoon."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7341744/cincinnati-bearcats-suspend-four-players-brawl-xavier-musketeers
Hey, that's exactly what I said. It's like I have sources (I don't)!
Not sure how we get by without Landen Amos.
XU 87
12-11-2011, 03:36 PM
I would say that's fair, except for the walk-on, who simply retaliated after Gates tried to punch him.
D-West & PO-Z
12-11-2011, 03:43 PM
I agree but for most of those it would be Oral Roberts. A team we should be able to beat without them and even if we don't, who cares its one game.
Also, I would be ok if they were staggered (if possible). Maybe suspend Tu and Lyons for different games.
Either way, I think the actions deserve suspensions based on their actions, not who else gets suspended by UC or XU. Doing such begins to move to the realm of suspending so not to lose, not suspending to punish and teach a lesson.
Also, as stated, I would have no problem with Tu not getting suspended, I just feel he probably deserves one.
They would never get away with staggering the suspensions. Are you serious?
joebba
12-11-2011, 03:44 PM
I was at an Xmas party with my friends last night, most of who were UC fans. There was no heated angst among us or pointing blame. My best friend (a UC grad) thought Yates should be off of the team.
Six games for the dude who kicked Frease is worse than what Gates did. He should be off the team.
All in all, if deflates Cronin's comments after then game.
surfxu
12-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Seems like those are very strong suspensions for what Wells, Tu and Lyons ACTUALLY did. I would say that X is definitely sending a stronger message than that dump across town.
DoubleD86
12-11-2011, 03:48 PM
They would never get away with staggering the suspensions. Are you serious?
I agree they wouldn't get away with it. I said it is for Oral Roberts and deserved. Overall the suspensions are pretty much what I expected. One less for Wells than I expected.
I was way off on Amos...
GreatWhiteNorth
12-11-2011, 03:58 PM
If Tu got suspended for trash talking, then why not suspend all the students in the arena for shouting trash at the players and coaches. Cintas will be empty for our next game !
RoseyMuskie
12-11-2011, 04:00 PM
If Tu got suspended for trash talking, then why not suspend all the students in the arena for shouting trash at the players and coaches. Cintas will be empty for our next game !
It will be fairly empty student wise because that's X-Mas Break, so that's an awfully light punishment!
GoMuskies
12-11-2011, 04:00 PM
If Tu got suspended for trash talking, then why not suspend all the students in the arena for shouting trash at the players and coaches. Cintas will be empty for our next game !
They've all been kicked off the team.
joebba
12-11-2011, 04:00 PM
I'm suspending myself for two games for trash-talking about my friends new shoes at an X-Mas party last night.
GreatWhiteNorth
12-11-2011, 04:14 PM
More than that, the students should take off all their XU shirts. Better yet, Mack should take them off from them himself and make them think about how lucky they were to be watching XU bball at Cintas.
It seems that they should consider banning Mick Cronin's family from future shootouts though.
Mick's family should be banned from all away games.
Ledgewood
12-11-2011, 06:00 PM
Cronin is completely full of shit.
DC Muskie
12-11-2011, 06:02 PM
One day Mick is saying guys might not be on the team, the next, he is talking about making sure they say they are sorry before they will play again.
I think we should always ignore the first few hours after something like this happens. You end up looking stupid.
MADXSTER
12-11-2011, 06:22 PM
Yeah, two guys go from probably/possibly never suiting up again to 6 games suspensions. Oooooo.....that's a tough punishment.
SlimKibbles
12-11-2011, 06:43 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111211/SPT0101/312110047/Cronin-Apology-will-first-step-toward-reinstatement-suspended-players?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|
“I said two years, ago, the last time we were over there, if we had won the game, I was going to go to the press conference and say, ‘I don’t know if we should play anymore,’ ” Cronin said. “But when you lose, it’s sour grapes. We either need to play basketball or we shouldn’t play. If it’s gonna bring out the worst in people and it’s bad for both universities, then there should be no game.”
Okay, Mick, so why didn't you say anything after last year's game when your team was talking a lot and you happened to win?
“I was trying to call timeout to tell my guys I know what’s been going on the whole game but we’re not going to react. But they couldn’t see me. I was worried about the handshake line and everything.”
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/slimkibbles/benderseriouslaugh.jpg
danaandvictory
12-11-2011, 06:46 PM
I see Jolly St. Mick is no longer a Woodenesque mediator focused on higher principles and has gone back to deflecting blame and generally acting like a loathsome turd. Shocking.
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 06:50 PM
"Before any of them put a uniform back on they will apologize and that's just the first step before putting the uniform back on," Cronin told ESPN.com Sunday. "Just because the press release says what it says that doesn't mean they're all back. They're going to sit in front of a camera and say how sorry they are and how grateful they are for getting a second chance. "They're going to sit in front of a camera and say it. I can tell the difference as to how genuine they are. The university issued the suspensions and I supported it. But for me it's different. I have the autonomy to not let anybody back on the team."
Hooray Mick. I for one applaud your bold stance. He kept to his word from yesterday's presser.
Mick has stood strong and told his players "you have to say you're sorry before you are allowed back on the team!" Not only that, they have to do it in front of a camera! *gasp
What's that you say; how will we know if they're truly contrite? Well you negative Nelly, Mick also said he can tell if his players REALLY mean it. Yea, didn't see that one coming did you? All you want to do is bash Mick, but you're the ones that look like fools because he just told us that he'll really know whether they mean it or not! Quit hatin', XU homers.
This is excellent. What integrity. What leadership. Say you're sorry and really mean it, or else I'll still retain the right to maybe and/or possibly not let you play again or until you really mean it. Way to go Mick!
UC: Knowing whether or not you're truly, sincerely sorry since 1819!
X-band '01
12-11-2011, 07:13 PM
But isn't it the 3rd or 4th chance for Nancy Gates?
boozehound
12-11-2011, 08:23 PM
But isn't it the 3rd or 4th chance for Nancy Gates?
It's at least the second. He was suspended for getting in a fight with an assistant coach last year I believe.
Yancy Gates is a straight-up animal. Does anybody here not think that he will end up in prison some day? If that dude couldn't play basketball he would probably already be there. Friggin animal. UC should be sued for negligence for even allowing that beast on the court, and the campus, with other human beings.
xuace
12-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Chris Mack needs to control Tu...his behavior as a senior leader was totally out of line. That said, Gates is a thug and should be done and Mick "the troll"Cronin is all bark and no bite.
chico
12-11-2011, 08:34 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111211/SPT0101/312110047/Cronin-Apology-will-first-step-toward-reinstatement-suspended-players?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|
Okay, Mick, so why didn't you say anything after last year's game when your team was talking a lot and you happened to win?
Quote:
“I was trying to call timeout to tell my guys I know what’s been going on the whole game but we’re not going to react. But they couldn’t see me. I was worried about the handshake line and everything.”
Why is this so hard to believe? I mean, at least the part about his players not being able to see him.
MADXSTER
12-11-2011, 08:37 PM
Chris Mack needs to control Tu...his behavior as a senior leader was totally out of line. That said, Gates is a thug and should be done and Mick "the troll"Cronin is all bark and no bite.
Tu is not a dog to be controlled. He may need to be taught and educated, but not to be controlled.
Section 200
12-11-2011, 11:14 PM
Without the fight, does Cronin keep his job at the end of the year? BB was UC's primary sport from the 50s to the early 2000s but now the football team has 3 league titles in 4 years & basketball attendance is under 6,000 per game.
The only BB game where UC is relevant is the Shootout - since the XU fans care. I love BB & go to many UC games thru the generosity of folks who buy but do not use tickets. They all have given up hope in Cronin & I'm sure that he knows it.
Without that fight everyone at UC that still cares about BB calls for Cronin to be fired and even more "fans" just give up hope & look to next football season. On top of that he loses Gates next year & our freshman are far superior to what Cronin has.
Cronin wanted that fight to to save his job. He had his press conference where the media loved him since he said fighting was wrong. He probably wanted YG suspended for more games to make his case for a contract extension since his best player was lost. Even with Yancy they are no better than .500 in the BE, probably worse.
Our guys aren't innocent, of course & unfortunately we fell for the trap. But in reality Cronin wanted & needed that fight.
markchal
12-11-2011, 11:16 PM
UC needed that fight so the fans could talk about how "both teams should be embarrassed" and not have to think about how badly their team was embarrassed all game long.
xuwin
12-11-2011, 11:23 PM
Without the fight, does Cronin keep his job at the end of the year? BB was UC's primary sport from the 50s to the early 2000s but now the football team has 3 league titles in 4 years & basketball attendance is under 6,000 per game.
The only BB game where UC is relevant is the Shootout - since the XU fans care. I love BB & go to many UC games thru the generosity of folks who buy but do not use tickets. They all have given up hope in Cronin & I'm sure that he knows it.
Without that fight everyone at UC that still cares about BB calls for Cronin to be fired and even more "fans" just give up hope & look to next football season. On top of that he loses Gates next year & our freshman are far superior to what Cronin has.
Cronin wanted that fight to to save his job. He had his press conference where the media loved him since he said fighting was wrong. He probably wanted YG suspended for more games to make his case for a contract extension since his best player was lost. Even with Yancy they are no better than .500 in the BE, probably worse.
Our guys aren't innocent, of course & unfortunately we fell for the trap. But in reality Cronin wanted & needed that fight.
That's a stretch. You're being rediculous.
bjf123
12-11-2011, 11:32 PM
Seriously? :confused:
MaurerHigh
12-11-2011, 11:33 PM
That's a stretch. You're being rediculous.
I agree with this. No way did anyone want that fight.
LadyMuskie
12-11-2011, 11:36 PM
Oh good! A conspiracy theory! :rolleyes: Maybe if we try hard enough, we can blame Tu for the Kennedy assassination which Mick planned in order to ensure his long tenure as head coach of UC Basketball.
bjf123
12-11-2011, 11:39 PM
Oh good! A conspiracy theory! :rolleyes: Maybe if we try hard enough, we can blame Tu for the Kennedy assassination which Mick planned in order to ensure his long tenure as head coach of UC Basketball.Don't you know there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll (just outside the 3 point line) code named Cheeks?
XULucho27
12-11-2011, 11:39 PM
Oh good! A conspiracy theory! :rolleyes: Maybe if we try hard enough, we can blame Tu for the Kennedy assassination which Mick planned in order to ensure his long tenure as head coach of UC Basketball.
What are you, high? We all know Lyons was behind the Kennedy assassination, despite his low basketball IQ. Mick was just a patsy.
edit: beat me to it bjf.
Fred Garvin 2.0
12-11-2011, 11:47 PM
Remember when Snipe used to babble about Able Danger? Same thing.
Of course we can all agree the Clintons had Vince Foster 86d.
LadyMuskie
12-12-2011, 12:03 AM
Don't you know there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll (just outside the 3 point line) code named Cheeks?
What are you, high? We all know Lyons was behind the Kennedy assassination, despite his low basketball IQ. Mick was just a patsy.
edit: beat me to it bjf.
I forgot. I did watch the documentary film starring Kevin Costner, but I just can't keep it all straight. Who has the Sports Illustrated cover with the faulty shadows?
LadyMuskie
12-12-2011, 12:06 AM
Remember when Snipe used to babble about Able Danger? Same thing.
Of course we can all agree the Clintons had Vince Foster 86d.
Vince Foster clearly shot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun. He was also clearly the inspiration for the cartoon character Inspector Gadget as his arms must have had extension powers in order for him to have so clearly shot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun. Also, I really think that we can all agree that Mick Cronin goaded Tu Holloway into trash talking to Vince Foster so that Mick could keep his job at UC. It's all very clearly laid out in a very real paper trail that someone can discover somewhere at sometime.
MaurerHigh
12-12-2011, 12:27 AM
Don't you know there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll (just outside the 3 point line) code named Cheeks?
Honestly, even though he's struggled from deep this year, I'd still put my money on Brad.
wkrq59
12-12-2011, 01:23 AM
Section 200, you are closer to the truth than you know. Listen to the postgame press conferences by both Mick and Mack. Listen to the questioner of Chris about the gangsta etc. Then listen to all the questions asked Mick.
Chris admitted Sunday in the XU conference that he thought about calling time out to put the walkons and McKenzie in but decided against it because he thought his starters getting their applause would incite trouble. He said on second thought he should have done just that but didn't and Bobinski agreed. Same with trying to cooperate with the media...no good deed goes unpunished.:(
xubrew
12-12-2011, 02:29 AM
I don't see what the problem was.
I think the ball was out of bounds to Xavier, and they were getting in place to inbound. Wells ran over there to set a screen. Perhaps he wasn't set, but it didn't look that harsh. But, okay, Wells is guilty of an illegal screen. Big deal.
The players that ran off the XU bench were clearly running to the scorer's table to check into the game. No big deal. UC's players just charged off the bench and started fighting for no reason. They are 100% to blame.
paulxu
12-12-2011, 08:11 AM
Hah! I see where Mick has decided to not let any of his players back until they apologize to the community.
Just a little late don't you think? Tried to slide with "issuing a statement" to the media about your suspensions. Bobo, Mack and Tu blow you out of the media water with really a great press conference where they take actual questions, and apologize...and now you want to have your players apologize?
You got owned. I'd be willing to bet that none of them take questions; including Mick.
The media may be saying we went too light on our suspension (what BS) but they still keep running the picture of Kenny bleeding. That's a PR nightmare.
XUOWNSUC
12-12-2011, 08:22 AM
Hah! I see where Mick has decided to not let any of his players back until they apologize to the community.
Does this mean Gates will have to apologize to the players he hit? Probably not.
bleedXblue
12-12-2011, 08:27 AM
please delete this nonsense
Muskie
12-12-2011, 10:03 AM
please delete this nonsense
Delete what.
BMoreX
12-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Just going off Shannon Russell's twitter, Cronin, Gates, and their AD are having a press conference.
BMoreX
12-12-2011, 02:33 PM
Classic Cronin. Said if there were Big East refs and if the Big East had picked them, this wouldn't have happened.
XULucho27
12-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Classic Cronin. Said if there were Big East refs and if the Big East had picked them, this wouldn't have happened.
Wow. Just befuddling. Link?
Are you telling me we couldn't referee in the A-10?
xavierj
12-12-2011, 02:39 PM
Just going off Shannon Russell's twitter, Cronin, Gates, and their AD are having a press conference.
They did. Cronin had all 4 guys apologize and then took questions. No one apologized for breaking Kenny's face and the first two guys made sure to say the Eggsavier game. Paul Daugherty tried to bait Yancy into saying what caused the problem but he stayed away from it and took responsibility for his actions. Mick said his players are told to not say a word to the Xavier guys even if they try to apologize. Said even though some are friends they need to stay away. Then a reporter asked Mick if they would get together to try to make peace and do something together and he started to say no before AD stepped in and said they would absolutely try to get something together between the schools.
BMoreX
12-12-2011, 02:40 PM
Wow. Just befuddling. Link?
Are you telling me we couldn't referee in the A-10?
Just heard it on UC's press conference online. Just ended.
Fam93
12-12-2011, 02:43 PM
Mick said his players are told to not say a word to the Xavier guys even if they try to apologize. Said even though some are friends they need to stay away.
This was after the reporter asked Nancy if he would apologize to Frease and he quickly replied No.
coasterville95
12-12-2011, 06:34 PM
I'm getting more in the line of thinking that the Shootout should be done
Sorry, it was a great time, but if player and fan safety is an issue, I can't approve of it continuing.
Basically saying "I ain't apologizing" is no handshake game type material
LadyMuskie
12-12-2011, 07:02 PM
You know, he might have said "no" because he's being investigated by Deters. I'm not excusing it, but if you think about this from his standpoint, he's under investigation by the Prosecutor and by apologizing to Frease he more or less admits what he did. I'm not excusing him, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he was instructed to say "no" in order to keep from implicating himself. That, or he's just an ass.
Ledgewood
12-13-2011, 08:51 AM
Gotta love Yancy Gates and Cheikh Mbodj telling us that they aren't violent people.
That's like me telling you I do NOT golf after taking in 18 on a lovely Saturday. That just isn't me.
xuwin
12-13-2011, 08:57 AM
You know, he might have said "no" because he's being investigated by Deters. I'm not excusing it, but if you think about this from his standpoint, he's under investigation by the Prosecutor and by apologizing to Frease he more or less admits what he did. I'm not excusing him, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he was instructed to say "no" in order to keep from implicating himself. That, or he's just an ass.
I agree. Lawyers have made it impossible to take responsibility for your actions any more without the fear of it being used against you in a lawsuit.
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