USC Not-re Dame

[Masterofreality]

I guess the spirit of Declan Sullivan trumps a home night game.

#BrianKellyisanass

[GoMuskies]

USC isn't even good. Surprising result for sure.

[LA Muskie]

USC isn't even good. Surprising result for sure.

With USC this year it's less about good/bad and more about consistency. When at their best, they are actually pretty damn good. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

[GoMuskies]

No, they kind of suck. That's a terrible loss for ND at home.

[Juice]

No, they kind of suck. That's a terrible loss for ND at home.

Especially since ND was hosting a ton of recruits this weekend, including Gunner Kiel.

[GoMuskies]

Especially since ND was hosting a ton of recruits this weekend, including Gunner Kiel.

Gunner Kiel originally committed to IU. Apparently it doesn't take that much to impress him.

[xeus]

#BrianKellyisanass

I'll bite. Why is Brian Kelly an ass?

[xudash]

With USC this year it's less about good/bad and more about consistency. When at their best, they are actually pretty damn good. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Is that a Lane Kiffin thing in your opinion? USC is USC - they'll certainly get their fair share of talent, double secret probation or not. I'm just wondering if he's the kind of coach that can keep them focused on games ranging from ND to Oregon State.

[Masterofreality]

I'll bite. Why is Brian Kelly an ass?

Three words: Declan Sullivan's death.

Unacceptable in any form.

[xudash]

Three words: Declan Sullivan's death.

Unacceptable in any form.

When it's all said and done, I have to agree. That tragic incident could be argued from the range of it being a freak accident to a grossly negligent event. Someone had to be in charge of that lift in a way in which they were responsible for knowing its limitations.

An excerpt from an article:

The hydraulic scissor lift, which can be lowered or raised depending on needs, stretched across a nearby street. According to one report, the tower stood about 50 feet above the ground.

Winds in the area were gusting to 51 mph at the time, according to the National Weather Service, .....................

50 feet up with 50 mph winds gusting at the time. That's nuts.

[waggy]

Did Kelly really make the call to send the kid up? It would seem someone who knew the crane would be unsafe in those conditions, would/should be around to put a stop to it. Whatever the case, I imagine this has been hashed out on a ND board somewhere.

[xudash]

Did Kelly really make the call to send the kid up? It would seem someone who knew the crane would be unsafe in those conditions, would/should be around to put a stop to it. Whatever the case, I imagine this has been hashed out on a ND board somewhere.

I don't know about Kelly, but you are making the point I made: someone within the program - at the institution - should be charged with learning the safety/operating characteristics of the thing.

That noted, common sense should have kicked in somewhere along the line.

[LA Muskie]

I don't know about Kelly, but you are making the point I made: someone within the program - at the institution - should be charged with learning the safety/operating characteristics of the thing.

That noted, common sense should have kicked in somewhere along the line.

I agree with all of this. But what does it have to do with Saturday's game?

[LA Muskie]

Is that a Lane Kiffin thing in your opinion? USC is USC - they'll certainly get their fair share of talent, double secret probation or not. I'm just wondering if he's the kind of coach that can keep them focused on games ranging from ND to Oregon State.

I hate Kiffin an would love to attribute it to him, but I just don't think he's to blame. While they still have a ton of talent, the lost scholarships hurt, as did the transfers. Also, they are very young right now. Last I saw, I believe they were starting 8 first-year players (either true or redshirt frosh). On the offensive side of the ball, Barkley is wildly inconsistent and lacks the leadership/killer instincts of prior USQ quarterbacks (despite probably having more innate talent than Palmer, Leinart, and Sanchez). Now maybe you could attribute that last one to Kiffin, but it was pretty apparent even in his 1st year.

[Masterofreality]

Did Kelly really make the call to send the kid up? It would seem someone who knew the crane would be unsafe in those conditions, would/should be around to put a stop to it. Whatever the case, I imagine this has been hashed out on a ND board somewhere.

This from an article by Dave Zirin of The Nation Magazine from 11/29/10:

".......there was the death of 20-year-old team videographer Declan Sullivan in October. Amidst a hurricane, Sullivan was ordered onto a 50-foot high "scissor lift" to videotape practice. Coach Kelly was apparently still angry that the previous day's practice had to be conducted inside, and practice even in inclement weather, demands to be recorded. After the tower blew over, killing Sullivan, practice continued another 25 minutes. Sullivan's death wasn't just an accident. It was utter negligence."

Seems as if Kelly has a real anger problem. His sideline demeanor also appears to bear that out. With total disregard for the conditions, A) Kelly ordered an outside practice, B) Dictated that it be recorded. C) After the accident happened, Kelly kept practice going.

As a parent of three kids that have "survived" college. You understand that when your kid goes away to school, that there will be some risks. However, you certainly expect that the university and those in direct administration will never do anything to compromise the safety of your kid.

Notre Dame and Brian Kelly failed miserably in their actions then apparently Kelly still didn't give a sheet. A kid died. That is unforgiveable.

[Xavier]

.


Notre Dame and Brian Kelly failed miserably in their actions then apparently Kelly still didn't give a sheet. A kid died. That is unforgiveable.

the person most responsible for the kids death...was the kid. I know people don't like hearing that, but its true and very unfortunate. Are you telling me you don't think their was a warning sign on the machine, or at least something in the handbook the kid must have gotten on how to operate the machine, saying "do not use when wind is at __ MPH" or something along the lines of that?

[GoMuskies]

the person most responsible for the kids death...was the kid.

Incorrect. He was doing his job. His supervisor, whoever that was, should have kept him from going up there that day.

[boozehound]

the person most responsible for the kids death...was the kid. I know people don't like hearing that, but its true and very unfortunate. Are you telling me you don't think their was a warning sign on the machine, or at least something in the handbook the kid must have gotten on how to operate the machine, saying "do not use when wind is at __ MPH" or something along the lines of that?

There is definitely some room for negligence on the part of Notre Dame as well though. I wonder if the team videographer gets a scholarship? If so that would add a significant level of pressure for the student to abide by Kelly's wishes that practice be taped. Scholarship or not, I'm sure that he wanted to keep his job as the videographer and he probably figured that pissing off Brian Kelly wasn't a good way to hold on to his job. You are correct that ultimately he could have refused to go up, but I'm sure he didn't really think he was going to fall to his death. If Kelly ordered him up there, directly or indirectly, then I believe that there is some level of negligence present on his part. Particularly when it came out after the fact that many other coaches across the midwest had made the decision not to send their videographers up to film practice that day.

[Masterofreality]

There is definitely some room for negligence on the part of Notre Dame as well though. I wonder if the team videographer gets a scholarship? If so that would add a significant level of pressure for the student to abide by Kelly's wishes that practice be taped. Scholarship or not, I'm sure that he wanted to keep his job as the videographer and he probably figured that pissing off Brian Kelly wasn't a good way to hold on to his job. You are correct that ultimately he could have refused to go up, but I'm sure he didn't really think he was going to fall to his death. If Kelly ordered him up there, directly or indirectly, then I believe that there is some level of negligence present on his part. Particularly when it came out after the fact that many other coaches across the midwest had made the decision not to send their videographers up to film practice that day.

Yes. He was getting paid. I don't know if it was in scholarship or wage, but he definitely was compensated.

booze, you are right the hell on.

[Xavier]

Incorrect. He was doing his job. His supervisor, whoever that was, should have kept him from going up there that day.

The kid was in college. You honestly don't think there were warning sings on the lift anywhere that he could read? I don't know, I could be wrong. Maybe the lift didn't have warning signs expressing the danger of high winds but I would be surprised if no where along the line (during training, some sort of handbook, actual signs on the machine) did he not receive adequate warning about winds that high. If he went to his supervisor and told him he was concerned and the supervisor made him go up? then its the supervisors fault.

I am not saying none of this was ND's fault but no one blames the kid at all and I think he deserves most (unless, like I said, he came to the supervisor with concerns and was told to still go up)

[GoMuskies]

It's a supervisor's responsibility to keep his or her subordinates safe. Period. If you are a supervisor now (or ever are in the future), take note. That is job one.

[Muskied]

The kid was in college. You honestly don't think there were warning sings on the lift anywhere that he could read? I don't know, I could be wrong. Maybe the lift didn't have warning signs expressing the danger of high winds but I would be surprised if no where along the line (during training, some sort of handbook, actual signs on the machine) did he not receive adequate warning about winds that high. If he went to his supervisor and told him he was concerned and the supervisor made him go up? then its the supervisors fault.

I am not saying none of this was ND's fault but no one blames the kid at all and I think he deserves most (unless, like I said, he came to the supervisor with concerns and was told to still go up)


With all due respect, I completely and vehemently disagree with this. Do I think the kid should have said screw this job and decided not to go up? Absolutely. The point is it shouldn’t get to that point. He doesn't decide to do his job...the university does. That takes all the pressure of trying to impress your superiors and wondering if you should even be doing it.

In the words of A Few Good Men-The Coaches and supervisors are supposed to fight for those who can't fight for themselves...they were supposed to fight for the student.

If college was just about decision making and autonomy, it would be a reality show called Survivor. They are supposed be supervised, guided, nurtured, kept safe.

The kid wasn't drunk at 3am...If this was my kid, and someone ever said they were the one to blame, we'd have some serious problems....and I am a ND fan.

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Notre Dame and Brian Kelly failed miserably in their actions then apparently Kelly still didn't give a sheet. A kid died. That is unforgiveable.

MoR,

Amen, bro!



Hey....

I'm a HUGE Dave Zirin fan....

haven't picked it up yet,

but really looking forward to reading his latest tome....


The John Carlos Story
The Sports Moment That Changed the World

By John Carlos & Dave Zirin, Foreward By Cornel West




http://www.haymarketbooks.org/hc/The-John-Carlos-Story



btw:

hc kelly...

time to give Luke Massa some run!!!:shield:

[Kahns Krazy]

the person most responsible for the kids death...was the kid. I know people don't like hearing that, but its true and very unfortunate. Are you telling me you don't think their was a warning sign on the machine, or at least something in the handbook the kid must have gotten on how to operate the machine, saying "do not use when wind is at __ MPH" or something along the lines of that?

Incorrect. He was doing his job. His supervisor, whoever that was, should have kept him from going up there that day.


I agree with Xavier. The person most responsible for his death was Declin. It was his action - specifically getting into and raising the lift - that was most directly responsible for the resulting death.
I agree with Go that the person who bears the most blame is his supervisor. Without knowing the rest of the details - policies, who said what to who and when, it's hard to know if the school was negligent. At some point, I have to believe that the organization has some blame.

Brian Kelly, in my opinion, is not to blame. He is the head coach of the football team, not the head of football operations, or the video coordinator or the assistant video coordinator. I doubt an org chart would even have the videographer under Kelly (I note that the media guide indicates that video services are not even sport specific - the same video coordinator does football and basketball). Would Kelly be responsible for someone working in the laundry getting electrocuted because the uniforms were wet after an outdoor practice? I think if you're looking for a head honcho to take a fall, that would go under the AD, not Kelly.

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

MoR,

Amen, bro!



Hey....

I'm a HUGE Dave Zirin fan....

haven't picked it up yet,

but really looking forward to reading his latest tome....


The John Carlos Story
The Sports Moment That Changed the World

By John Carlos & Dave Zirin, Foreward By Cornel West




http://www.haymarketbooks.org/hc/The-John-Carlos-Story



btw:

hc kelly...

time to give Luke Massa some run!!!:shield:







A guy who writes for The Nation with a forward by Cornell West. I'll be sure to pick that right up. I'm guessing the same sportswriting ilk that glorify Ali and Curt Flood.

[sweet16]

MoR,

btw:

hc kelly...

time to give Luke Massa some run!!!:shield:





At quarterback???

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Per nd.....







Notre Dame establishes Declan Drumm Sullivan Scholarship








http://newsinfo.nd.edu/news/27095-notre-dame-establishes-declan-drumm-sullivan-scholarship/




FYI:

10/27/11 marks 1 year anniversary of DS's passage.