CNNSI's Weak Non-Conference Schedule Preview

[KingCole]

Andy Glockner of CNNSI breaks down some weak non-conference schedules. Of course the Bearcats make the list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_glockner/09/23/nonconference.schedules/index.html?sct=cb_t11_a0

[bleedXblue]

Awesome

4 Big East teams singled out !!!!

[XU 87]

I think I can already hear Cronin whining about how unfair the media is towards UC.

[Masterofreality]

......Never to be reported on by B-Espn....

And surprise surprise . Oh-ho-ho State is on the list. Build up that win total Pinocchio.

[paulxu]

At least he didn't group us with the mid-majors. One point for that.

[golfitup]

That record the SWAC has against BCS schools the past 6 seasons deserves attention as well. That's incredible.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I thought Ohio State playing some school called South Carolina-Upstate on December 14th was the most pathetic thing I'd see all day... That is until, just for kicks, I looked up the USC-Upstate Spartans schedule and saw another familiar name slated to play them on December 11th...

http://www.upstatespartans.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/schedule

[Xavgrad08]

Cronin's plan is to rack up the wins in the non conference. That way when he goes 500 in the Bg East he will still go dancing. Also, after Pitt and Syracuse leave it will be interesting to see if Cronin still acts like the league is the best thing since sliced bread.

[waggy]

I thought Ohio State playing some school called South Carolina-Upstate on December 14th was the most pathetic thing I'd see all day... That is until, just for kicks, I looked up the USC-Upstate Spartans schedule and saw another familiar name slated to play them on December 11th...

http://www.upstatespartans.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/schedule

So USCU is going to get a couple hundred hits from this site which calls them pathetic?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Cronin's plan is to rack up the wins in the non conference. That way when he goes 500 in the Bg East he will still go dancing. Also, after Pitt and Syracuse leave it will be interesting to see if Cronin still acts like the league is the best thing since sliced bread.
Not anymore without those 2 bball powers, but UC can now move up in BE and Cronin can claim the credit.

[Xavier]

I am surprised OSU is on the list. They do play Florida, Duke, and Kansas.

[Blue Blooded-05]

So USCU is going to get a couple hundred hits from this site which calls them pathetic?

Yeah, I admit I sounded pretty snobby there. Allow me to try and rationalize my comment...

While I admit I had never heard of the University of South Carolina-Upstate when I woke up this morning, I'm not calling them pathetic... I'm sure it's is a fine institution. Furthermore, I'm sure they're probably getting a nice payday out of traveling to Dayton and Ohio State, which is sound business planning.

I'm calling Ohio State pathetic for scheduling them... and probably not for the reason you think.

Every top tier school is guilty of scheduling home easy-wins in early non-conference. However, we're talking about THE Ohio State University. We're talking about the school and fans that strut around proclaiming themselves the undisputed alpha dog in the state of Ohio. Aren't there are plenty of "lower tier" schools in Ohio for the alpha dog to feast on? My OSU friends tell me Xavier is "Mid-Major" all the time. Then why won't they play us? What about Toledo? Kent State? Why wouldn't they play OU when they had Gary Trent? Why wouldn't they play Miami when they had Wally Szczerbiak? Why wouldn't they play BGSU when they had Antonio Daniels? Why didn't they play UC in the 90's? Why do they need to reach so far and schedule USCU, Texas Pan-Am, Lamar (TX), North Florida and Jackson St (MS)? OSU obviously has no problem scheduling Ohio schools for their easy-wins in football.

The aura of THE Ohio State University and their self-proclaimed basketball superiority is annoying. Bottom line, I want another shot at those all-talk pay-for-play mother f@#$ers. That 2007 team was a 9 seed and one of our weakest tourney teams in recent memory. OSU's best team ever needed a miracle to beat us. Any time anywhere you p@$$ies!! (...deep breaths...)

PS... Calling Dayton more pathetic for scheduling USCU was just a jab at Dayton. I can't help myself.

[paulxu]

So USCU is going to get a couple hundred hits from this site which calls them pathetic?

Hold on now. USCUpsate is also located in Spartanburg, just like Wofford.
Look at that schedule...that's some major league dinero for being the patsy for all those teams.
No more dissing on the teams in my city.

[waggy]

No more dissing on the teams in my city.

Yes sir.

BTW, I wasn't calling them pathetic, though they might be.

[paulxu]

BTW, I wasn't calling them pathetic, though they might be.

Probably...but, they get bonus points for unique directional school name. Could have gone with North, or something...but went with Upsate.

[xubrew]

I think that some of the teams mentioned in the article are being unfairly picked on.

Ohio State's schedule isn't stellar by any stretch of the imagination, but it is far from being disgraceful. Any schedule that has Duke, Kansas and Florida on it is not weak. They also go to South Carolian. Wright State and Miami are in-state opponents. They are the kind of teams that major conferences are accused of NOT scheduling. WSU isn't a tournament team, but they do win more than they lose. Same with Miami.

Louisville is playing Butler, Vandy, Memphis and Kentucky. Long Beach State blew through the Big West regular season last year and returns most of their team. Again, that's the kind of team that majors are accused of ducking. Western Kentucky is an in-state opponent, and at the time this series was scheduled, they were coming off of a Sweet Sixteen apperance. College of Charleston isn't a gang-busting team, but I'd say they're above average. That's six games of their 11 game OOC.

UNLV's schedule isn't good, but it's far from bad. Wichita State is a likely at-large team, as are Illinois and Wisconsin. They play at Hawaii, but it's not easy to win at Hawaii AND it enables them to schedule an additional OOC game. It's unfair to even mention that.

Baylor's schedule is actually much better than what we're used to seeing. They do play some SWAC teams and Southland teams, but they're in Texas. I'm not saying they don't play cupcakes, but it's far from a cupcake schedule in its entirety. There are schedules far weaker than that.


There are more examples, but you get the idea.


Teams that really dropped the ball on scheduling are teams like VA Tech (although it is SLIGHTLY better), Colorado and Nebraska. These are teams that are routinley left out of the discussion because of weak schedules....yet they continue to put together weak schedules. Those schedules are far weaker than many of the teams that are singled out in the aritcle. I mean....it's not even close.

I love the concept of this article. I just think if failed to identify the worst offenders.

[stophorseabuse]

Upstate is the common name for like 6 or 7 county radius up there. It is like "The Delta"m or "The Valley". South Carolina refers to that location as upstate.

[X-band '01]

I find it disgraceful that Xavier lost to a hyphenated school in the Elite 8 back in 2008.

[Bmuskie]

Cronin's plan is to rack up the wins in the non conference. That way when he goes 500 in the Bg East he will still go dancing. Also, after Pitt and Syracuse leave it will be interesting to see if Cronin still acts like the league is the best thing since sliced bread.

Actually this kind of scheduling is a regular occurance in the Big East. That is their scheduling philosophy, and it works. Of all the NCAA conferences the Big East was last in number of true road games (non-conference) per team (1.6). (that's saying something since Pitt, ND, Syr and UConn played no true non-conference road games) They also finished last among the top 6 conferences in non-conference RPI. In short they play nobody and they don't leave home. This allows them to have overinflated records entering conference play. So when a 13-0 team that didn't play anyone plays a 13-1 team that hasn't played anyone their RPI gets a boost due to their opponents record. Combine that with the perception of the league and everyone says "WOW what great games!"

[xubrew]

Actually this kind of scheduling is a regular occurance in the Big East. That is their scheduling philosophy, and it works. Of all the NCAA conferences the Big East was last in number of true road games (non-conference) per team (1.6). (that's saying something since Pitt, ND, Syr and UConn played no true non-conference road games) They also finished last among the top 6 conferences in non-conference RPI. In short they play nobody and they don't leave home. This allows them to have overinflated records entering conference play. So when a 13-0 team that didn't play anyone plays a 13-1 team that hasn't played anyone their RPI gets a boost due to their opponents record. Combine that with the perception of the league and everyone says "WOW what great games!"

What stats are you looking at??

The Big East was first in both overall RPI and OOC RPI, and the only leagues who played tougher OOC schedules as calculated by the NCAA were the Atlantic Sun, SoCon, Big South and SWAC. Those leagues just load up on road games against major teams so they can get paid.

Cincinnati did schedule weak, but collectively the conference played tough OOC games.

[Bmuskie]

I got my numbers from CBS Sports RPI. The Big East non-conference opponents had an average RPI of 114. Even the Atlantic 10 was better with non-conference opponents RPI averaging 113.

[xubrew]

I got my numbers from CBS Sports RPI. The Big East non-conference opponents had an average RPI of 114. Even the Atlantic 10 was better with non-conference opponents RPI averaging 113.

I don't know what the average RPI was, but the overall SOS that the NCAA uses had them as collectively playing the fifth toughest overall OOC schedule, and ahead of all major conferences.

In glancing at the schedules really quickly, they also averaged more games against NCAA tournament caliber teams (teams seeded #12 or better) than any other major conference other than the ACC, and the ACC didn't beat them by much. The ACC also plays 13 OOC games, whereas the Big East only plays 11, so that explains the difference. Cincinnati, Saint John's and Rutgers played pretty weak schedules, but no one else really did. They weren't all difficult schedules by any means, but they weren't weak either. Some of them were actually really tough. Look at Georgetown's. It was brutal.

[waggy]

The Big Zombie's OOC SOS (RPI) was #2. SOS (especially OOC) numbers from the various ranking gurus is something that is sorely lacking. Sagarin is one of just a handful that does individual teams (but I think it includes conference games), and I'm not aware of any #'s for ranking the conferences outside the RPI, though there probably are 1 or 2.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/confrpi.html

[LazelleDurden]

What's wrong with playing a weak OOC schedule when you are going to play one of the toughest in conference schedules?

Why would UC go out and schedule 3-4 top 25 teams when they are going to play 10-12 in conference?

[More Cowbell]

No one is asking them to schedule multiple top 25 games, but don't expect a sellout crowd for Chicago State or Arkansas Pine-Bluff. What happens if UC goes .500 in the Big East and doesnt have any OOC wins?

[xubrew]

What's wrong with playing a weak OOC schedule when you are going to play one of the toughest in conference schedules?

Why would UC go out and schedule 3-4 top 25 teams when they are going to play 10-12 in conference?

Ummm....a lot of things.

For starters, in order for a conference to collectively establish itself as a strong league, they need to play and beat other teams that are strong out of conference.

Another thing to consider is that if a team feels they're going to get beaten up in conference play, then they need something else to fall back on in order to establish themselves as a tournament caliber team. A team must make a case for itself at some point. If they schedule weak out of conference, they're essentially taking a pass on making any sort of case for yourself. If they get beat up in conference play, and have not made a case for themselves OOC, then they have no case, and you'll be watching the tournament at home.

Scheduling weak OOC actually puts more pressure on a team to perform in conference, not less.

[X-band '01]

What's wrong with playing a weak OOC schedule when you are going to play one of the toughest in conference schedules?

Why would UC go out and schedule 3-4 top 25 teams when they are going to play 10-12 in conference?

You're obviously not a fan of Virginia Tech. Ask Sasquatch, err, Seth Greenburg about their scheduling philosophy.

[LazelleDurden]

Ummm....a lot of things.

For starters, in order for a conference to collectively establish itself as a strong league, they need to play and beat other teams that are strong out of conference.

Another thing to consider is that if a team feels they're going to get beaten up in conference play, then they need something else to fall back on in order to establish themselves as a tournament caliber team. A team must make a case for itself at some point. If they schedule weak out of conference, they're essentially taking a pass on making any sort of case for yourself. If they get beat up in conference play, and have not made a case for themselves OOC, then they have no case, and you'll be watching the tournament at home.

Scheduling weak OOC actually puts more pressure on a team to perform in conference, not less.

The Big East hasn't already established themselves as a strong league???

So scheduling strong OOC with a weak in conference puts pressure on a team to perform OOC?

And no I am not a fan of Va Tech, plus they get a chance in conference against basically 2 teams every year to get quality wins. In the Big East you get about 11-12 different opportunities.

[xubrew]

The Big East hasn't already established themselves as a strong league???

So scheduling strong OOC with a weak in conference puts pressure on a team to perform OOC?

And no I am not a fan of Va Tech, plus they get a chance in conference against basically 2 teams every year to get quality wins. In the Big East you get about 11-12 different opportunities.

What the hell are you talking about??

Of course the Big East established itelf as a strong league last year. They did so by collectively playing one of the toughest OOC schedules of any conference, and winning those games. Had they all collectively scheduled weak teams, they wouldn't have established themselves to be nearly as strong last year. Last year's Big East is a perfect example of how a league benefits from scheduling strong.



In glancing at the schedules really quickly, they also averaged more games against NCAA tournament caliber teams (teams seeded #12 or better) than any other major conference other than the ACC, and the ACC didn't beat them by much. The ACC also plays 13 OOC games, whereas the Big East only plays 11, so that explains the difference. Cincinnati, Saint John's and Rutgers played pretty weak schedules, but no one else really did. They weren't all difficult schedules by any means, but they weren't weak either. Some of them were actually really tough. Look at Georgetown's. It was brutal.

[gladdenguy]

The Big East hasn't already established themselves as a strong league???

So scheduling strong OOC with a weak in conference puts pressure on a team to perform OOC?

And no I am not a fan of Va Tech, plus they get a chance in conference against basically 2 teams every year to get quality wins. In the Big East you get about 11-12 different opportunities.

If you are sUCks, you do get 10 to 12 opportunities in conference to win some games.
With sUCks being a usual bottom dweller in the Big East, it is a chance to get some good wins. Maybe even sell out a game or two. Never mind, the only game they sold out was Xavier.
However, the fact is, sUCks usually gets 2 wins against Depaul (horrible), 2 against Rutgers/Seton Hall/Providence (terrible), and maybe 5 more top 100 wins. Don't expect a good seed when that is all you've done.
Thank gosh Xavier is on their nonconference schedule.....that might have been the sole reason they got a 6 seed because the 2 wins over Georgetown (who was bad by the end of the year) wasn't something to ride home about.
The problem with most sUCks fans is they gloat about the Big East and their conference schedule, go and schedule a +300 rpi schedule, and then act like the A-10 is as bad as their nonconference. The A-10 isn't close to the Big East, but lets not act like we are playing MAAC teams the whole conference either.
That is why the 4,000 sUCks fans left in this city are moronic.