To be, Or not to be? (DSR Edition)

[HuskyMuskie]

Screw it--I'm caving. Originated by the original bet between PMI and multiple others on the site, it is now a heated (and comical) debate flowing about whether or not the fabled 'D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera' will attend Xaiver University.

Many have wagered beers, dinners, and lengthy, lavish trips to he who decides to call out DSR's recommitment, and myself among others are still holding strong to DSR playing for X. So, however ridiculous your prediction may seem, or maybe you want to bo public with your bet concerning the matter, this is the place for it.

Let 'er rip!

[PMI]

No secret that I'm a believer. I'm saying DSR will be wearing Xavier blue next year. Hopefully DSR reads this site and feels the love. I'll bet no other boards have polls, bets, and human sacrifices going on over him right now. That's not a typo, we'll be sacrificing Lucho to the Puerto Rican deities after he re-commits.

[Xavier Nation]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.

[bobbiemcgee]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.

Geesh, I thought losing a beer was alot.

[rhyno2110]

i believe!

[Masterofreality]

I say....

Yeah.

[XUglow]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.

If DSR goes to Xavier, I will cut off your right nut. Don't ever let it be said that Glow was afraid of a little blood.

[bobbiemcgee]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.


If DSR goes to Xavier, I will cut off your right nut. Don't ever let it be said that Glow was afraid of a little blood.

Nuts4xu should get in on this.

[PMI]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.

Wow, you must have a few nuts in the middle to spare because it really isn't a long shot. Some people in the know think it's actually much better than a 50/50 chance he re-commits. But hey, it aint my left nut.

[danaandvictory]

I think he will recommit. Or perhaps he will not. WHO AMONG US CAN SAY?

One thing is for sure -- it will be weird trying to unravel the roster permutations if DSR and Reynolds both recommit.

[XULucho27]

That's not a typo, we'll be sacrificing Lucho to the Puerto Rican deities after he re-commits.

Shit... Fine. #takingonefortheteam

[OSUMuskie]

No secret that I'm a believer. I'm saying DSR will be wearing Xavier blue next year. Hopefully DSR reads this site and feels the love. I'll bet no other boards have polls, bets, and human sacrifices going on over him right now. That's not a typo, we'll be sacrificing Lucho to the Puerto Rican deities after he re-commits.

Jobu would be pleased. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85i5CpyBv-Q)

http://www.uncoached.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/movie_nicknames_4.jpg

[xufan02]

I think he will recommit. Or perhaps he will not. WHO AMONG US CAN SAY?

One thing is for sure -- it will be weird trying to unravel the roster permutations if DSR and Reynolds both recommit.

Reynolds is still committed. He will be a Musketeer.

[paulxu]

If DSR goes to Xavier I will cut off my left nut.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you voted No in this poll.

[wkrq59]

I think Xavier now has as much chance of landing DSR as the Titanic had of missing that iceberg. He no longer lists Xavier among the teams he is considering, either that is in error or he just keeps telling a different story each time he is interviewed which appears to be often. Can't remember who his original choices were before he committed to Xavier and then de-committed but I know they aren't the same today and have changed to reflect the addition of UCLA, Texas and now Georgetown??? This kid, who really enjoys being a "ME" man changes his mind more than a new-born's diapers are changed. Maybe he'll come back but more than likely he won't. I don't think Xavier will suffer because he looks to be a one and done.:eek:

[Demaunn]

I vote an astounding NO. If you search D'Vauntes Smith Rivera on twitter you'll see several stories and links from basketball analysis indicating that the most recent commitment from the Winton Woods guard has taken DSR out of the running. That HE has dropped Xavier from consideration.

[Jumpy]

I agree with the two wise men above me, which I guess makes me the third. The DSR ship sailed the day he de-committed. Sure, his mom and he said the right things about still liking X and they should still recruit him, but Coach Mack and crew knew better. They quickly changed their focus to players who could make a decision and look at how many commits we've gotten since then.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

As I said in the other thread....NO CHANCE. And it was never that we wouldn't take him, that is ludicrous, it is that he would no longer be interested. He is clearly a me-first guy who has enjoyed the looooooooooong process of being wooed by schools from coast to coast. No way would he come in and have to (gasp) earn playing time in front of Myles and Semaj.

He will end up at Texas, and like Jakarr Sampson at St. John's, will probably turn out to be more bark than bite. :cool:

We'll be fine without him.

[ballyhoohoo]

I voted yes, just a feeling. If a kid says he wants to play close to home, and then goes away to prep school it tends to lead to a college selection close to home. For those that mention him not listing us in articles, who is writing the articles. If it is another rivals page, a local reporter from Austin or what not. They are going to pander to those who pay their salary. Kids have the right to change their minds, hell I am 30 and change my mind non stop. I have been going back and forth about getting a dog for months, same with a new Harley. He will make up his mind when he is ready.

When he de-committed it was speculated that people in his camp, "uncles" if you will wanted him to open it back up and try to get a big time offer. Maybe, and this is a shot in the dark. He is waiting until those big schools are out of scholies to re committ to Xavier. If the Texas's and UCLA's of the world are out of rides it could make his personal life easier to re-up with the Muskies.

Recruits and parents read these boards, no matter what you feel about the process keep you f*cking mout shut and be polite. We do not want the reputation of a fan base that bitches and moans and bashes recruits for taking their time.

[rhyno2110]

Jumpy, u are so wrong on so many levels. The staff watched dsr the ENTIRE summer! Xavier is still very much interested in dsr and dsr is still very much interested in x. I can see why some of you guys are ready to call it quits, but the truth is we will be one of his final choices

[GoMuskies]

We do not want the reputation of a fan base that bitches and moans and bashes recruits for taking their time.

Yes, we do not want to get mixed in with the likes of.....well, every single other fanbase in the country.

Wait, Auburn's fans don't do this in basketball recruiting. But only because they don't know Auburn has a basketball team.

[Jumpy]

Jumpy, u are so wrong on so many levels. The staff watched dsr the ENTIRE summer! Xavier is still very much interested in dsr and dsr is still very much interested in x. I can see why some of you guys are ready to call it quits, but the truth is we will be one of his final choices

That seems to be one level.

They might have been at the same tourneys he was at, but when you're chasing big time recruits, it's not hard to keep bumping into the same guys. It's not like they have chased him to remote corners of the earth to watch him play ball. He's been playing in the biggest tourneys in the country along with all the other quality recruits. I'm sure the coaching staff has stayed in touch with him, but having no inside information at all I can tell you simply by the number of commits we've gotten since he pulled out that he stopped being the top priority.

I'm not saying they wouldn't take him if he re-committed, but they haven't been investing as much time and effort in his recruiting as they once were.

[ThePowerOfX]

That seems to be one level.

They might have been at the same tourneys he was at, but when you're chasing big time recruits, it's not hard to keep bumping into the same guys. It's not like they have chased him to remote corners of the earth to watch him play ball. He's been playing in the biggest tourneys in the country along with all the other quality recruits. I'm sure the coaching staff has stayed in touch with him, but having no inside information at all I can tell you simply by the number of commits we've gotten since he pulled out that he stopped being the top priority.

I'm not saying they wouldn't take him if he re-committed, but they haven't been investing as much time and effort in his recruiting as they once were.

I do not think that is true whatsoever. I think we have put in just as much, if not more, effort than any other school that is in the running for him

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Man some of you guys just have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I don't know for sure obviously but if I had to guess I'd say we'll get DSR. Those of you who are saying things like we're not recruiting him hard anymore or he has dropped us though could not be more wrong. Also I'm going to laugh very hard when those of you ripping the kid now start singing his praises if he recommits.

[PMI]

I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but to Q, Deuman, Jumpy, Moe, et al, all I can say is that Chris Mack and the staff do not agree with the notion that DSR is just blowing smoke or that we've backed off. There is a lot of false information floating around on this thread that should be cleared up. They are still recruiting him just as hard as they ever were, Xavier is still right up at the top for his services, and that has remained constant. That apparently cannot be stressed enough, because it seems the majority of posters are doubting that. To say that the DSR ship sailed after he de-committed, or after we landed Davis, or even after we went over the limit for Christon, is simply inaccurate. The ship has never sailed on either end. He is absolutely still a priority recruit. He is also not a one and done, for what that's worth. The staff has never shifted their focus from DSR and wants them as much as anyone they've ever recruited.

Obviously, we may not land him still. There are no guarantees in recruiting. But please let's go with the facts rather than misleading and incorrect assumptions and, moreover, let's not dog a kid who may very well be one of our own soon. The fact is, he is a prime target of our staff who is VERY interested in becoming a Xavier Musketeer and that has not changed in the past couple years. I understand how it looks unlikely from the outside, but those in the know understand that his re-commitment is not at all unlikely.

[Jumpy]

I do not think that is true whatsoever. I think we have put in just as much, if not more, effort than any other school that is in the running for him


Not that I really want to split hairs... ok, I do... but they could still be recruiting him harder than other schools while not spending as much time as they once were doing so.



Man some of you guys just have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I don't know for sure obviously but if I had to guess I'd say we'll get DSR. Those of you who are saying things like we're not recruiting him hard anymore or he has dropped us though could not be more wrong. Also I'm going to laugh very hard when those of you ripping the kid now start singing his praises if he recommits.

If you don't know yourself, how can you then turn around and attempt to make the definitive statement that we "could not be more wrong". Some of us truly do have some inside sources, and usually those posters aren't the ones on these threads speculating with the rest of us.

The rest of us, though, are here to talk about the team they love. Part of that discussion is speculation. For the 95% of us that don't have inside information (you included) that's all we have. So tell me, how could I "not be more wrong" and "wrong on so many levels" in my speculation? What proof do you have that the coaching staff has recruited him as hard, if not harder, after his de-commitment as they were before it? I'm looking at the guys that have come on board since then, and common sense is telling me that they have shifted their focus while they wait for him to decide.

[Jumpy]

Obviously, we may not land him still. There are no guarantees in recruiting. But please let's go with the facts rather than misleading and incorrect assumptions and, moreover, let's not dog a kid who may very well be one of our own soon. The fact is, he is a prime target of our staff who is VERY interested in becoming a Xavier Musketeer and that has not changed in the past couple years. I understand how it looks unlikely from the outside, but those in the know understand that his re-commitment is not at all unlikely.

Who's dogging the kid on here? Because we believe that he is not going to end up here, we're now dogging him? That's a bit of a stretch.

You urge everyone to go with the facts, but there are no facts to know. This whole thread is speculation on both sides of the argument. Again, I'm only going with what I see, and in the past few months I've seen a number of guys commit to X, some of whom play the same position that D'vauntes does.

[PMI]

Who's dogging the kid on here? Because we believe that he is not going to end up here, we're now dogging him? That's a bit of a stretch.

You urge everyone to go with the facts, but there are no facts to know. This whole thread is speculation on both sides of the argument. Again, I'm only going with what I see, and in the past few months I've seen a number of guys commit to X, some of whom play the same position that D'vauntes does.

I would say that the posts calling him a "me first" player who simply loves being courted and is blowing smoke up our asses is dogging him, yes. I didn't pick up that tone from any of your posts, so it was not at all directed towards you, but some of the posts in this and other threads have an undertone that suggest what he's doing is wrong, by going through the process the way most other 5 stars do.

There are facts. People subscribe to Rivals and other sites to get information. I never included his future re-commitment among the facts (just my guess based on the facts), but when it comes to our staff's active recruitment of the kid and his interest in the Xavier, both are still strong. The guys that write for the recruiting sites all talk to these kids. They all maintain that DSR is very high on Xavier and vice versa. Some of the other guys on these premium boards have unbelievable connections that I can't begin to wrap my head around. It's astonishing how often they're right about things. They're all on the same page, a couple of them even going as far as to say they expect DSR to be a Musketeer. These opinions, coming from people in the know, are a far cry from those on this thread (based on speculation with much less direct information) that suggest the ship has sailed and there's no way he comes here.

If we don't get him, fine. I wouldn't be floored. But that doesn't change the level of interest form both parties.

[ThePowerOfX]

Not that I really want to split hairs... ok, I do... but they could still be recruiting him harder than other schools while not spending as much time as they once were doing so.


Ok fine. I will word it differently. We are recruiting him just as hard as we did before his first commitment, possibly harder.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Not that I really want to split hairs... ok, I do... but they could still be recruiting him harder than other schools while not spending as much time as they once were doing so.




If you don't know yourself, how can you then turn around and attempt to make the definitive statement that we "could not be more wrong". Some of us truly do have some inside sources, and usually those posters aren't the ones on these threads speculating with the rest of us.

The rest of us, though, are here to talk about the team they love. Part of that discussion is speculation. For the 95% of us that don't have inside information (you included) that's all we have. So tell me, how could I "not be more wrong" and "wrong on so many levels" in my speculation? What proof do you have that the coaching staff has recruited him as hard, if not harder, after his de-commitment as they were before it? I'm looking at the guys that have come on board since then, and common sense is telling me that they have shifted their focus while they wait for him to decide.

I said I don't know if he is going to recommitt, I hope he does and think he will but I don't know for sure. I do know for a fact he hasn't dropped us and the coaches haven't stopped or let up at all on recruiting him. The coaches want DSR and they will take him if he commits. What proof do I have? Well lets see the rivals insiders have said so, so has the writer for rivals Rick Broering. O and I've heard it from the mouth of Travis Steele as well. You don't even need to be an insider or rivals subscriber to know that at least 1 Xavier coach has been following DSR around all summer. Mack personally has been to plenty of his games as well. If those facts aren't good enough for you then just go ahead and keep believing whatever you want.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but to Q, Deuman, Jumpy, Moe, et al, all I can say is that Chris Mack and the staff do not agree with the notion that DSR is just blowing smoke or that we've backed off. There is a lot of false information floating around on this thread that should be cleared up. They are still recruiting him just as hard as they ever were, Xavier is still right up at the top for his services, and that has remained constant. That apparently cannot be stressed enough, because it seems the majority of posters are doubting that. To say that the DSR ship sailed after he de-committed, or after we landed Davis, or even after we went over the limit for Christon, is simply inaccurate. The ship has never sailed on either end. He is absolutely still a priority recruit. He is also not a one and done, for what that's worth. The staff has never shifted their focus from DSR and wants them as much as anyone they've ever recruited.

Obviously, we may not land him still. There are no guarantees in recruiting. But please let's go with the facts rather than misleading and incorrect assumptions and, moreover, let's not dog a kid who may very well be one of our own soon. The fact is, he is a prime target of our staff who is VERY interested in becoming a Xavier Musketeer and that has not changed in the past couple years. I understand how it looks unlikely from the outside, but those in the know understand that his re-commitment is not at all unlikely.

Very well said.

[LA Muskie]

Calling him a "me first" player is dogging him. This is a tough decision, and there are a lot of people whispering in his ears (as is nearly always the case in this situation). I think it'd be naive to think that the Christon addition doesn't change the calculus even slightly, but that doesn't mean DSR won't still come.

PS: I'm still not overly comfortable with the over-signing by 2, but I have to assume that the staff knows stuff that we just don't. For those of you who say that athletic scholarships are 1 year renewable scholarships, in the law we call that the difference between what someone *can* do and what someone *should* do. A program that starts pulling schollies from student-athletes will quickly have major difficulties recruiting. The slippery slope is huge. That's why it's rarely done. (Now suggested -- and often, assisted -- transfers is another matter...)

[jonz04]

yes. #'s will work out. A lot can happen between now and the spring signing period.


:logo:

[rhyno2110]

Jumpy, I apologize for sort of calling you out, but I hope you understand where im coming from. I pay for a rivals subscription and pmi has already explained the many connections that ppl have on that sight which in my year of subscription have turned out to be more often than not reliable sources. Im not saying dsr to Xavier is 100% guaranteed or anything, just that the chances are very high according to those on rivals. I just can't stand when people make conclusive arguments about things they have nothing to justify it on.

[Jumpy]

I said I don't know if he is going to recommitt, I hope he does and think he will but I don't know for sure. I do know for a fact he hasn't dropped us and the coaches haven't stopped or let up at all on recruiting him. The coaches want DSR and they will take him if he commits. What proof do I have? Well lets see the rivals insiders have said so, so has the writer for rivals Rick Broering. O and I've heard it from the mouth of Travis Steele as well. You don't even need to be an insider or rivals subscriber to know that at least 1 Xavier coach has been following DSR around all summer. Mack personally has been to plenty of his games as well. If those facts aren't good enough for you then just go ahead and keep believing whatever you want.

So, all that said. Bottom line is you pay to hear another man's suppositions on the matter. Got it. It still isn't fact.

[Jumpy]

Jumpy, I apologize for sort of calling you out, but I hope you understand where im coming from. I pay for a rivals subscription and pmi has already explained the many connections that ppl have on that sight which in my year of subscription have turned out to be more often than not reliable sources. Im not saying dsr to Xavier is 100% guaranteed or anything, just that the chances are very high according to those on rivals. I just can't stand when people make conclusive arguments about things they have nothing to justify it on.

I'm basing my opinion on the only true facts available. We've had a number of commits since he backed out on X, one of whom is in his class and plays the same position. From those facts, I am comfortable in concluding that it is most probable that coach Mack and company have have moved on, so to speak, and have made other guys priority.

Sure, you base your opinion on third hand accounts about how much interest both sides are showing each other, and that's fine, but to say that your side of the debate is based on facts and mine is coming from left field is not accurate.

For the final time: I'm not saying that all recruiting of D'vauntes has stopped. I'm not saying that Mack wouldn't gladly welcome him if he does decide to come. To turn away a top 25 talent because he didn't commit on X's schedule is ludicrous. What I am saying is that I believe, based on recent happenings, that the chances of him coming are slim to none.

[Xavier Nation]

I voted yes because I like to be optimistic and think DSR will be a star. It would thoroughly piss me off If DSR went somewhere else and if he became a star at another school it would piss me off even more. Go to X, don't let anyone tell you not to.

[PMI]

I'm basing my opinion on the only true facts available. We've had a number of commits since he backed out on X, one of whom is in his class and plays the same position. From those facts, I am comfortable in concluding that it is most probable that coach Mack and company have have moved on, so to speak, and have made other guys priority.

Sure, you base your opinion on third hand accounts about how much interest both sides are showing each other, and that's fine, but to say that your side of the debate is based on facts and mine is coming from left field is not accurate.

For the final time: I'm not saying that all recruiting of D'vauntes has stopped. I'm not saying that Mack wouldn't gladly welcome him if he does decide to come. To turn away a top 25 talent because he didn't commit on X's schedule is ludicrous. What I am saying is that I believe, based on recent happenings, that the chances of him coming are slim to none.

Come on, really? We are basing what we think off of what comes out of the mouth of the guy who is paid to talk to these recruits and watch them play, as well as people who speak regularly to people involved in this area of the program. The updates are at least daily. The articles on Rivals have quotes from the recruits themselves, not just some interest meter. Kids are open about who is recruiting them the hardest, and you can believe what you want, but it's well-known that Xavier has recruited DSR harder than any other school. These are facts, not speculation. It really makes no difference because in the end all that matters is where he goes, but if you hold on to your belief that Xavier has moved him from their number one priority, you are denying yourself the truth. Maybe people don't want to believe it because they don't like the thought of over-signing by two, and maybe they don't want to believe it for any number of other reasons, but it is what it is.

[MuskieCinci]

If I am going to bring a date to a wedding, I will ask the most attractive fun girl I can. If she says, "I can't let you know right now, I have a couple of options that night, but it does sound like an awesome night!" I am going to continue to remind her and let her know. I still don't want to go alone, so I'll ask another girl and get a firm commitment. Just because this other girl committed to that night and the fun hot girl hasn't yet, does not mean I wanted the other chick more. It just means I wanted to make sure I had a commitment in case the hot girl didn't want to come with me. If the hot girl does eventually say yes, then I will let the other girl go and say sorry.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I'm basing my opinion on the only true facts available. We've had a number of commits since he backed out on X, one of whom is in his class and plays the same position. From those facts, I am comfortable in concluding that it is most probable that coach Mack and company have have moved on, so to speak, and have made other guys priority.

Sure, you base your opinion on third hand accounts about how much interest both sides are showing each other, and that's fine, but to say that your side of the debate is based on facts and mine is coming from left field is not accurate.

For the final time: I'm not saying that all recruiting of D'vauntes has stopped. I'm not saying that Mack wouldn't gladly welcome him if he does decide to come. To turn away a top 25 talent because he didn't commit on X's schedule is ludicrous. What I am saying is that I believe, based on recent happenings, that the chances of him coming are slim to none.
DSR is a combo guard while Semaj is a point guard and Davis a shooting guard. We would surely never bring in three guards like that in the same class though right? O wait we did exactly that three years ago with Cheeks, Tu and Redford.

[Jumpy]

If I am going to bring a date to a wedding, I will ask the most attractive fun girl I can. If she says, "I can't let you know right now, I have a couple of options that night, but it does sound like an awesome night!" I am going to continue to remind her and let her know. I still don't want to go alone, so I'll ask another girl and get a firm commitment. Just because this other girl committed to that night and the fun hot girl hasn't yet, does not mean I wanted the other chick more. It just means I wanted to make sure I had a commitment in case the hot girl didn't want to come with me. If the hot girl does eventually say yes, then I will let the other girl go and say sorry.

So you are openly advocating for X to turn their back on a committed recruit in the event that DSR chooses to come here? God, I hope to never see that happen in my lifetime.

[Jumpy]

DSR is a combo guard while Semaj is a point guard and Davis a shooting guard. We would surely never bring in three guards like that in the same class though right? O wait we did exactly that three years ago with Cheeks, Tu and Redford.

. Dee davis is a freshman guard this year, which would mean that not only would X have five highly talented guards on the roster for '12 without DSR, but they would have to oversign by two scholarships to bring him on board.

I can appreciate the vigor with which you guys hold on to your hopes, but I'm more comfortable looking at the numbers and they tell me it's an outside shot at the kid. We can go round and round for ten more pages with the same arguments, but in the end it's pointless. What will happen will happen no matter what we say or believe.

[anXUfan]

Agree 100% that there is no way we should or would turn our backs on a committed recruit.

[Backyard Champ]

If I am going to bring a date to a wedding, I will ask the most attractive fun girl I can. If she says, "I can't let you know right now, I have a couple of options that night, but it does sound like an awesome night!" I am going to continue to remind her and let her know. I still don't want to go alone, so I'll ask another girl and get a firm commitment. Just because this other girl committed to that night and the fun hot girl hasn't yet, does not mean I wanted the other chick more. It just means I wanted to make sure I had a commitment in case the hot girl didn't want to come with me. If the hot girl does eventually say yes, then I will let the other girl go and say sorry.

.

[HuskyMuskie]

I think what's being overlooked is that everyone's arguments make sense. I mean, you can't discredit Jumpy for being skeptikal of oversigning by TWO scholarships, and having six talented guards on a roster with DSR. Talk about major over-crowding.

And those in PMI's boat, yes, it does make sense that DSR is still very high on Xavier, and yes, he is still being recruited to the highest possible degree. This is factual, not embellished possibilities.

At the end of the day, I wince at Xavier ever turning away a committ who has already put their name in the hat for Xavier, just to insert a new piece in the puzzle. That makes me sick thinking about it. We all begged for Semaj to come, and that we would be a new kind of excited if we wrapped up 2012 with two of the three in Davis, Christon, or DSR. It happened.

When you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want a glass of milk. Not to say we are rodents, but when we talk about taking away a scholarship from a kid we recruited hard and wanted so bad to wrap up an excellent recruiting class, we start looking like them.

I want DSR to come here more than anybody, and believe he still will. But let the chips fall as they may.

[xu15]

In the midst of all this DSR talk, I just want to re-emphasize how big time I think Christon is going to be for multiple years here. This team is gonna be strong every year for quite a while. Not like we haven't been good every year before, but damn we're gonna be good.

[xufan02]

I think Semaj and Myles Davis are going to really compliment each other well on the court. Semaj is a blur with the ball that can get to the rim; has a nice floater, and can hit the 12-15 foot pull-up jumper. Davis is a deep shooter who is not the best athlete, but is very heady and efficient.

A lot of recruiting analysts think the best comparison for Semaj is Rondo, not saying he is going to be an NBA starter, but his game is similair. I think Davis' game reminds me a lot of BJ Raymond, except he is smaller. Firey, heady, ice water in his veins shooter, who is as competitive as they come.

DSR would be like a Lobster Tail on top of a Precinct porterhouse; it would be awesome, but it would be a bit much. Regardless, I hear we are in a great position.

Pumped for the 2012 class, but even more pumped for the season.

[Masterofreality]

So you are openly advocating for X to turn their back on a committed recruit in the event that DSR chooses to come here? God, I hope to never see that happen in my lifetime.

This.

That is not the Xavier that I would want to see.

[MuskieCinci]

So you are openly advocating for X to turn their back on a committed recruit in the event that DSR chooses to come here? God, I hope to never see that happen in my lifetime.

I'm not advocating kicking guys off the team or turning away guys that have committed to Xavier, but obviously there are only 13 scholarships and it is the job of the coaches to put together the most talented team possible. The staff might have to make some very tough decisions if DSR does decide he wants to play for Xavier. If it was just an OK recruit or a guy the staff felt probably wasn't coming to Xavier they would stop recruiting him, but since it is a 5 star that has a good chance of choosing Xavier they will take him and make those tough decisions. In a perfect world the staff can take all the 2012 kids including DSR and nobody transfers out because this season just kicked so much ass so 2 guys are leaving early for the pros.

[LA Muskie]

I'm not advocating kicking guys off the team or turning away guys that have committed to Xavier, but ... the staff might have to make some very tough decisions if DSR does decide he wants to play for Xavier.
So what exactly are you advocating then?

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

For good or bad, I am an individual full of pride. Probably not a good thing, but it is what it is. Not only am I dissapointed with DSR decommitment but also with the way his recruitment has developed. So I dont care what type of player he is, I dont want him. In addition, this is Xavier and we dont need to beg. We do not back from an opponent and we dont back from a scholarship. Period. Furthermore, the last thing we want is future recruits being hesitant to commit thinking we may back from the scholarhip or force a resignation.

[Backyard Champ]

For good or bad, I am an individual full of pride. Probably not a good thing, but it is what it is. Not only am I dissapointed with DSR decommitment but also with the way his recruitment has developed. So I dont care what type of player he is, I dont want him. In addition, this is Xavier and we dont need to beg. We do not back from an opponent and we dont back from a scholarship. Period. Furthermore, the last thing we want is future recruits being hesitant to commit thinking we may back from the scholarhip or force a resignation.

I don't believe this at all. Sure, we don't need him, but I'm not going to say Xavier is above begging people like him to come to Xavier. At some point all schools beg for players, I'm sure schools like Duke and UK beg top 10 players to come to their schools all the time.

[theleague]

For good or bad, I am an individual full of pride. Probably not a good thing, but it is what it is. Not only am I dissapointed with DSR decommitment but also with the way his recruitment has developed. So I dont care what type of player he is, I dont want him. In addition, this is Xavier and we dont need to beg. We do not back from an opponent and we dont back from a scholarship. Period. Furthermore, the last thing we want is future recruits being hesitant to commit thinking we may back from the scholarhip or force a resignation.

What is this? Since when are we begging him to come. We are recruiting him, yes, heavily in fact, but we are not begging him.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

Idiomatic Expression anyone?

[LA Muskie]

I have absolutely no problem recruiting DSR and recruiting him hard. And I hope we are. Just so long as we have a plan that allows for including him and *not* renegging on someone else. That's not the Xavier way, so I am very confident that if we're still recruiting him, the program knows something the rest of us don't.

In other words, lacking any real inside knowledge, I trust Mack and Bobo fully. They are the Xavier Way. Always have been, always will be. And I don't see them mortgaging that over one kid, no matter who he is.

[LyonsIsFlyin]

I'm with Fighting Musketeer here. He committed, then decided against it. Fair enough, good luck to you but moving on. Funny thing is, as Jumpy has been pointing out, it appears the staff has done the same. Sure we'll continue to attend some of his games and tell him the right things, just as he did when he de-committed, but no one here can say we are truly holding out hope for him... we're already one over and guard heavy with having just got a commit from a highly touted player in the exact same position! Come on guys, yes we take him if he commits but guess what, someone has to go one way or another, so that will probably be grounds a lot of fans with X will not like. It happens at major progams and even happened here a few years ago. People who are close to the program will tell you no one liked it when Sean took ATays scholly away, we dodged that whole thing with Graves deciding to transfer.

Saying the numbers will work out is just a way of not looking at it realistically. Sure they will work out when someone is forced out one way or another. So simply put I suppose, I don't want DSR because we already have so many committed guys to X already that a loyal guy will have to go for another guy who is looking for the best stage, not the best school.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

All you guys saying forcing kids out isn't the Xavier way....What do you think happened with Churchill Odia, Dupree Lucas, Charles Bronson, Adrian Graves, Brian Walsh, Jay Canty and Jordan Latham? They were all told they weren't going to see much playing time here so if you want to play it would be in your best interest to leave. Almost all of these kids want to play over riding the pine so telling them that and basically asking them nicely to leave is not seen as some terrible thing. I know Graves, Walsh, Canty and Latham hold no ill feelings toward X and I don't recall Bronson, Lucas or Odia doing so either. If you're playing big time basketball you can't afford to waste a scholarship on a player who will never see the floor. You can keep thinking all those players decided to transfer on their own but that's just not true, that's just how the game works now.

[xu15]

All you guys saying forcing kids out isn't the Xavier way....What do you think happened with Churchill Odia, Dupree Lucas, Charles Bronson, Adrian Graves, Brian Walsh, Jay Canty and Jordan Latham? They were all told they weren't going to see much playing time here so if you want to play it would be in your best interest to leave. Almost all of these kids want to play over riding the pine so telling them that and basically asking them nicely to leave is not seen as some terrible thing. I know Graves, Walsh, Canty and Latham hold no ill feelings toward X and I don't recall Bronson, Lucas or Odia doing so either. If you're playing big time basketball you can't afford to waste a scholarship on a player who will never see the floor. You can keep thinking all those players decided to transfer on their own but that's just not true, that's just how the game works now.

They may have been told the situation as it was, as in told realistically what the playing time situation looked like unless they improved, but they weren't "forced out" like everyone keeps freaking out about. We are just talking this topic around in circles. Are people told realistically what is coming? Yes. Are people told that they are no longer welcome to play basketball at Xavier? No.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Look at the poll guys, the "NO" side is slowing but steadily pulling away.

[PMI]

I'm with Fighting Musketeer here. He committed, then decided against it. Fair enough, good luck to you but moving on. Funny thing is, as Jumpy has been pointing out, it appears the staff has done the same. Sure we'll continue to attend some of his games and tell him the right things, just as he did when he de-committed, but no one here can say we are truly holding out hope for him... we're already one over and guard heavy with having just got a commit from a highly touted player in the exact same position! Come on guys, yes we take him if he commits but guess what, someone has to go one way or another, so that will probably be grounds a lot of fans with X will not like. It happens at major progams and even happened here a few years ago. People who are close to the program will tell you no one liked it when Sean took ATays scholly away, we dodged that whole thing with Graves deciding to transfer.

Saying the numbers will work out is just a way of not looking at it realistically. Sure they will work out when someone is forced out one way or another. So simply put I suppose, I don't want DSR because we already have so many committed guys to X already that a loyal guy will have to go for another guy who is looking for the best stage, not the best school.

Umm, what? You think the staff would just attend his games and "courtesy recruit" him if they have really moved on in their own minds? I'm guessing you do not follow recruiting based on your take on this. In fact, it's funny how all those who do follow recruiting sites, as in the people paid to talk to these recruits and follow their processes, all will tell you that our staff NEVER, EVER stopped recruiting DSR as a TOP PRIORITY guy. Chris Mack and the assistants would have to be a pack of morons to continue to recruit a guy who they had no interest in, or who had no interest in them. They stop recruiting top players all the time when they know it's not going to lead to anything. You think they've spent the last 10 months going balls to the wall for a guys out of respect or courtesy? Ask DSR who has recruited him the hardest throughout his entire high school career and he will not hesitate to tell you Xavier. Please give our coaches more credit.

Again, I just can't stress enough how clear the facts are. XAVIER IS STILL RECRUITING D'VAUNTES SMITH RIVERA AND HE IS STILL HIGH ON XAVIER. We might not get him, but he is NOT a long shot. It may seem logical to just look at the numbers and say, wait, we already have enough, so there's no way we're getting him. For good or for bad, that is not the case. Keep believing what you guys want though.

[rhyno2110]

Look at the poll guys, the "NO" side is slowing but steadily pulling away.

Thanks for that meaningless observation.

[HuskyMuskie]

I'm with Fighting Musketeer here. He committed, then decided against it. Fair enough, good luck to you but moving on. Funny thing is, as Jumpy has been pointing out, it appears the staff has done the same. Sure we'll continue to attend some of his games and tell him the right things, just as he did when he de-committed, but no one here can say we are truly holding out hope for him... we're already one over and guard heavy with having just got a commit from a highly touted player in the exact same position! Come on guys, yes we take him if he commits but guess what, someone has to go one way or another, so that will probably be grounds a lot of fans with X will not like. It happens at major progams and even happened here a few years ago. People who are close to the program will tell you no one liked it when Sean took ATays scholly away, we dodged that whole thing with Graves deciding to transfer.

Saying the numbers will work out is just a way of not looking at it realistically. Sure they will work out when someone is forced out one way or another. So simply put I suppose, I don't want DSR because we already have so many committed guys to X already that a loyal guy will have to go for another guy who is looking for the best stage, not the best school.

Courtesy Recruiting: The latest recruiting tool emplemented by Brian Gregory and Archie Miller so they can wear Dayton polos around major basketball tournaments and try explaining to top recruits and coaches exactly where Dayton, Ohio is. And how nice success was in the 50s.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Thanks for that meaningless observation.
You are welcome!

[JWSmuskie]

I honestly can not understand what people are thinking when they say they don't want dsr anymore.. He did not disrespect X when he decommitted, he just wasn't completely sure if X was for him yet. I don't remember hearing people say they don't want jordan latham when he decommitted and then recommitted. The fact is this happens all the time in recruiting and dsr is the most talented recruit Xavier has ever had a chance of getting. If you don't want dsr to be a muskie then I guess you don't want X to have a their best chance of ever competing for a national championship.

[LA Muskie]

All you guys saying forcing kids out isn't the Xavier way....What do you think happened with Churchill Odia, Dupree Lucas, Charles Bronson, Adrian Graves, Brian Walsh, Jay Canty and Jordan Latham? They were all told they weren't going to see much playing time here so if you want to play it would be in your best interest to leave. Almost all of these kids want to play over riding the pine so telling them that and basically asking them nicely to leave is not seen as some terrible thing. I know Graves, Walsh, Canty and Latham hold no ill feelings toward X and I don't recall Bronson, Lucas or Odia doing so either. If you're playing big time basketball you can't afford to waste a scholarship on a player who will never see the floor. You can keep thinking all those players decided to transfer on their own but that's just not true, that's just how the game works now.

There is a *huge* difference between being told that you probably won't play much (if at all) and being told to pack your bags because you no longer have a scholarship to attend Xavier University. Huge. The first is not only acceptable, it is the honorable thing to do -- leaving the choice to the recruited player. The latter? Simply unacceptable.

[MADXSTER]

There is a *huge* difference between being told that you probably won't play much (if at all) and being told to pack your bags because you no longer have a scholarship to attend Xavier University. Huge. The first is not only acceptable, it is the honorable thing to do -- leaving the choice to the recruited player. The latter? Simply unacceptable.

How would you compare this to Jeff Robinson's situation. Purdue over recruited, and a couple of weeks before classes were to start, he was told that there was no more room at the Inn. Not saying that it is right, but it does happen. Purdue's loss ended up becoming Xavier's gain and at the same time I have never heard any rumblings from Jeff Robsinson.

Things happen, programs move forward, players move forward, and life goes on.

[waggy]

I don't think what other programs do should have any bearing on how X runs its program.

[MADXSTER]

I don't think what other programs do should have any bearing on how X runs its program.

Well then we will just have to agree to agree. I too don't think other programs should have any bearing on how Xavier runs its program.

[LyonsIsFlyin]

Umm, what? You think the staff would just attend his games and "courtesy recruit" him if they have really moved on in their own minds? I'm guessing you do not follow recruiting based on your take on this. In fact, it's funny how all those who do follow recruiting sites, as in the people paid to talk to these recruits and follow their processes, all will tell you that our staff NEVER, EVER stopped recruiting DSR as a TOP PRIORITY guy. Chris Mack and the assistants would have to be a pack of morons to continue to recruit a guy who they had no interest in, or who had no interest in them. They stop recruiting top players all the time when they know it's not going to lead to anything. You think they've spent the last 10 months going balls to the wall for a guys out of respect or courtesy? Ask DSR who has recruited him the hardest throughout his entire high school career and he will not hesitate to tell you Xavier. Please give our coaches more credit.

Again, I just can't stress enough how clear the facts are. XAVIER IS STILL RECRUITING D'VAUNTES SMITH RIVERA AND HE IS STILL HIGH ON XAVIER. We might not get him, but he is NOT a long shot. It may seem logical to just look at the numbers and say, wait, we already have enough, so there's no way we're getting him. For good or for bad, that is not the case. Keep believing what you guys want though.

I wasn't going to respond b/c usual I'm right there with you on things but to say you have some great feeling or know that we are going out of our way to recruit him b/c you have a subscription, duh. I never meant we're courtesy recruiting him, just doing all the right things because he is a top level talent, everyone would take him if your name isn't Duke and have 8 DSR's on your team. What I wanted to get across was that we aren't holding out hope like we had. Believe it or not, even without rivals, a little birdy told me Semaj was ready to pull the trigger some time ago, but maybe, just maybe, the staff was holding out hope and now have decided we need to have all our ducks in a row and not wait on someone who backed out on us. Doesn't seem to hard to follow if you ask me.

I also like the notion that you belong to Rivals, or some other site, you have some great insight. Maybe when Snow was at Rivals you got a very good picture of what the kids were thinking, but even Snow would follow it by saying, these are 16/17 yr olds, things change daily, don't look too much into it... but with Rick, I'm sure he's a good guy, but he wasn't and I'm sure still isn't a Brian Snow, so I don't care what Rivals says. And BSnow no longer only focus' on a few teams recruiting, he's now more all about the entire recruiting scene, so I'm sure he himself isn't so in tune with all things X these days. I belonged to Rivals for a few years and would have got out instantly if it weren't for the fact that Snow was such a realist and after giving a report would say things like I said above and warned people that things said publically shouldn't be taken as fact, and would give his 2 cents that were often the exact opposite of what the kid had just said.

Lastly as others have continued to point out, we will cut loose an X player if DSR does come, so I would rather he follows his parents desires and go else where

[nkymuskie]

How would you compare this to Jeff Robinson's situation. Purdue over recruited, and a couple of weeks before classes were to start, he was told that there was no more room at the Inn. Not saying that it is right, but it does happen. Purdue's loss ended up becoming Xavier's gain and at the same time I have never heard any rumblings from Jeff Robsinson.



I thought Jeff wasn't admitted due to grades?

[GoMuskies]

I belonged to Rivals for a few years and would have got out instantly if it weren't for the fact that Snow was such a realist and after giving a report would say things like I said above and warned people that things said publically shouldn't be taken as fact, and would give his 2 cents that were often the exact opposite of what the kid had just said.

I think it's just that Snow is such a bad writer that you're never exactly sure what the situation is after you've read one of his reports.

[MuskieCinci]

So what exactly are you advocating then?

Putting together the most talented team possible that gives Xavier the greatest chance at winning a National Championship. DSR would go a long way towards achieving that goal. In addition, I think other top recruits would start to more seriously consider Xavier. Xavier does recruit very well, but we never seem to be able to get those 5 star players. Landing a DSR may open the door for other big time kids to come to Xavier.

[PMI]

I wasn't going to respond b/c usual I'm right there with you on things but to say you have some great feeling or know that we are going out of our way to recruit him b/c you have a subscription, duh. I never meant we're courtesy recruiting him, just doing all the right things because he is a top level talent, everyone would take him if your name isn't Duke and have 8 DSR's on your team. What I wanted to get across was that we aren't holding out hope like we had. Believe it or not, even without rivals, a little birdy told me Semaj was ready to pull the trigger some time ago, but maybe, just maybe, the staff was holding out hope and now have decided we need to have all our ducks in a row and not wait on someone who backed out on us. Doesn't seem to hard to follow if you ask me.

I also like the notion that you belong to Rivals, or some other site, you have some great insight. Maybe when Snow was at Rivals you got a very good picture of what the kids were thinking, but even Snow would follow it by saying, these are 16/17 yr olds, things change daily, don't look too much into it... but with Rick, I'm sure he's a good guy, but he wasn't and I'm sure still isn't a Brian Snow, so I don't care what Rivals says. And BSnow no longer only focus' on a few teams recruiting, he's now more all about the entire recruiting scene, so I'm sure he himself isn't so in tune with all things X these days. I belonged to Rivals for a few years and would have got out instantly if it weren't for the fact that Snow was such a realist and after giving a report would say things like I said above and warned people that things said publically shouldn't be taken as fact, and would give his 2 cents that were often the exact opposite of what the kid had just said.

Lastly as others have continued to point out, we will cut loose an X player if DSR does come, so I would rather he follows his parents desires and go else where

I wouldn't say I have any better insight on this than anyone else just because of Rick at Rivals. It's no secret he does not have the connections that Snow does (although he can write at above a 4th grade level so that's a plus.) He's doing a fine job and does provide valuable information, but I'm not leaning on his word in this discussion. Regardless, there are a few very, very good sources on that site who have deep connections to the program, who have certainly earned my trust/respect over the years. I also have other trustworthy sources from outside Rivals. I will continue to take all of their words over mere speculation on this thread, not because they aren't speculating some too (nobody can actually read a recruits mind), but because of what (and whose word) their speculation is based off of.

I fully agree with your take on Semaj being ready to commit awhile ago, and the staff not wanting to wait it out forever, but in no way does that mean game over for DSR. With Semaj, things were postponed in part because of his grades, so there's more to it than the staff just taking him in case we don't get DSR. Semaj will be at Brewster with Reynolds next year, so obviously the coaches trust that his grade situation will work out. I very much disagree that our staff is just doing all the right things, or going through the motions because he's a top 25 kid. Our coaches obviously have a feel for how serious a recruit is considering Xavier and I trust the sources who have made it clear that the staff feel they are still in a prime position to land DSR, even after the Christon commitment.

The July recruiting period is over now, so no coaches are recruiting "heavily" right now, but DSR knows exactly where we stand with him (he's ours if he wants us) and when he makes his decision in the coming weeks, I would not be at all surprised if he chooses Xavier, nor would the people recruiting him. With recruiting, you can't just follow the news and put the logical pieces together. Like you said, these are teenage kids whose minds change often. The higher a level you recruit at, the more unpredictable it can be, and the more turnover you have every year, thus over-signing occurs more frequently. Over-signing by two is not going to be a deal-breaker for us signing one of the elite players in high school basketball. I believe that Xavier has always been DSR's favorite, and like you said, it's been other people around him who have encouraged him to shop around. I believe that the relationship our staff has built with him will ultimately pay off. That's just my opinion, it may pay off and it may not. That does not, however, change the fact that such a relationship exists, and the work our staff has put into recruiting DSR really cannot be debated.

[XUFan09]

PMI is right. Rick Broering and some of the Rivals boards members together are usually dead-on. And no, they aren't just speculating based on press releases, like some on this thread. They have great inside sources, and they say that the coaching staff is still heavily recruiting DSR. And apparently Travis Steele said the same thing. Considering that he has been the lead recruiter the entire time, that's a rather reliable claim, assuming that the poster wasn't flat-out lying.

You can have your own opinions, including whether DSR will in the end commit to Xavier. However, you cannot have your own facts. Every single insider is saying that X is still heavily in the mix. It is more than just improbable that they are incorrect.

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm still excited about Walker, Philmore, Taylor, Myles and Semaj. DSR would be some kind of coup.
:logo:

[LA Muskie]

How would you compare this to Jeff Robinson's situation. Purdue over recruited, and a couple of weeks before classes were to start, he was told that there was no more room at the Inn. Not saying that it is right, but it does happen. Purdue's loss ended up becoming Xavier's gain and at the same time I have never heard any rumblings from Jeff Robsinson.
I don't recall how the Robinson situation played out, so I can't say. But I can say that IF Purdue was a scholly short because it over-committed, and IF he was told that unfortunately there's no room at the Inn, then I say shame, shame, shame on Purdue for putting the kid in that position.

[LA Muskie]

Putting together the most talented team possible that gives Xavier the greatest chance at winning a National Championship. DSR would go a long way towards achieving that goal. In addition, I think other top recruits would start to more seriously consider Xavier. Xavier does recruit very well, but we never seem to be able to get those 5 star players. Landing a DSR may open the door for other big time kids to come to Xavier.

That's not an answer to the question. You said "I'm not advocating kicking guys off the team or turning away guys that have committed to Xavier, but ... the staff might have to make some very tough decisions if DSR does decide he wants to play for Xavier." What "tough decisions" are you speaking of? That's the big question. If we need to hang an 18-year old kid out to dry to have a chance at winning a National Championship, then I'd prefer we not try. )Thankfully, I am quite certain that's not a requirement...)

[Jumpy]

You can have your own opinions, including whether DSR will in the end commit to Xavier. However, you cannot have your own facts. Every single insider is saying that X is still heavily in the mix. It is more than just improbable that they are incorrect.

I told my self I'd bow out of this discussion because my argument had run it's course and we were all just spinning in circles, but I have to comment on this. I think some of you on the support of Rivals side are confusing heresay for facts.

Anything that comes from that site, unless it is directly from a recruit or the team, is heresay. I understand that you guys trust those sources but the trust you place in them does not make them facts.

the only facts in this case are as such:

1) DSR was a commit
2) DSR de-committed
3) Since he changed his mind, X has successfully recruited a number of guys, two of whom are guards in his class
4) X is now oversigned by one scholarship for the '12 class.

These facts are what lead me to believe that there is really no shot that we end up with D'vauntes when all is said and done, regardless of what the Rivals people say.

[PMI]

I told my self I'd bow out of this discussion because my argument had run it's course and we were all just spinning in circles, but I have to comment on this. I think some of you on the support of Rivals side are confusing heresay for facts.

Anything that comes from that site, unless it is directly from a recruit or the team, is heresay. I understand that you guys trust those sources but the trust you place in them does not make them facts.

the only facts in this case are as such:

1) DSR was a commit
2) DSR de-committed
3) Since he changed his mind, X has successfully recruited a number of guys, two of whom are guards in his class
4) X is now oversigned by one scholarship for the '12 class.

These facts are what lead me to believe that there is really no shot that we end up with D'vauntes when all is said and done, regardless of what the Rivals people say.

I thought I was going to bow out too, but the part in bold is what you're continuing to overlook. The sources are the recruit and parts of the team. This is going in circles, we can agree on that. There is no confusion over the facts. Again, nobody is claiming they know facts about an end result, but there are facts about the intentions of our recruitment and the interest of both parties that have, quite frankly, come from the horse's mouth.

[Jumpy]

I thought I was going to bow out too, but the part in bold is what you're continuing to overlook. The sources are the recruit and parts of the team. This is going in circles, we can agree on that. There is no confusion over the facts. Again, nobody is claiming they know facts about an end result, but there are facts about the intentions of our recruitment and the interest of both parties that have, quite frankly, come from the horse's mouth.

But what I'm getting at is that unless the recruit himself typed whatever you're reading on the site himself, it is hearsay. Not to totally discredit it, because the guys are paid to get things right, but still it can't be taken for true fact.

The recruits, coaching staffs and even the writers on that site have reason to not be entirely truthful to their audience. One reason in particular is that they are pandering to an audience that is obviously biased toward one school or another. I don't believe for one minute that any party would outright lie, but the truth of matters is often veiled by courtesy.

For instance, (and I'm not saying this is in any way the truth of things, but something that could very easily be reality) DSR obviously loved X from early on in his recruitment. The staff was on him earlier than any other school and he's comfortable with the school, the staff and the players on the team. He's grateful to the staff for being interested early on and truly likes them as people. He decides that maybe, after a pre-mature committment, he should rethink his options and look at "bigger" schools. That doesn't mean that he has stopped being friendly with the coaching staff at X, but maybe he's really expecting to go to Michigan State or UNC or God knows where. While the possibility of coming to X has decreased significantly, he isn't going to openly admit that to a writer that he knows writes for a X Rivals site. Of course he's going to say all the right things, just like the coaching staff is wont to do.

I was a part time member of the Rivals site for a few years up until Snow left. I would pay for a couple months at a time during open recruiting seasons to get a feel for what the staff was doing and who they were focusing on. I know that Snow was very good at giving the scoop straight, as he heard it. I also know that not everything mentioned on that site is absolute truth. There are politics involved in what information is released, and how it is released.

[PMI]

But what I'm getting at is that unless the recruit himself typed whatever you're reading on the site himself, it is hearsay. Not to totally discredit it, because the guys are paid to get things right, but still it can't be taken for true fact.

The recruits, coaching staffs and even the writers on that site have reason to not be entirely truthful to their audience. One reason in particular is that they are pandering to an audience that is obviously biased toward one school or another. I don't believe for one minute that any party would outright lie, but the truth of matters is often veiled by courtesy.

For instance, (and I'm not saying this is in any way the truth of things, but something that could very easily be reality) DSR obviously loved X from early on in his recruitment. The staff was on him earlier than any other school and he's comfortable with the school, the staff and the players on the team. He's grateful to the staff for being interested early on and truly likes them as people. He decides that maybe, after a pre-mature committment, he should rethink his options and look at "bigger" schools. That doesn't mean that he has stopped being friendly with the coaching staff at X, but maybe he's really expecting to go to Michigan State or UNC or God knows where. While the possibility of coming to X has decreased significantly, he isn't going to openly admit that to a writer that he knows writes for a X Rivals site. Of course he's going to say all the right things, just like the coaching staff is wont to do.

I was a part time member of the Rivals site for a few years up until Snow left. I would pay for a couple months at a time during open recruiting seasons to get a feel for what the staff was doing and who they were focusing on. I know that Snow was very good at giving the scoop straight, as he heard it. I also know that not everything mentioned on that site is absolute truth. There are politics involved in what information is released, and how it is released.

You make some good points per Rivals, but like I mentioned in a previous post, Rick Broering is the only one paid at that site. There are other members there, as well as other sources completely unrelated to Rivals, who have sources inside the X program. I would not keep being this persistent solely off of the word of people who are paid by Rivals. There are sources much closer to the heart who have provided details that I would not post on a public forum, but that's where I'm coming from. I guess we'll never really come to a conclusion to this so I'm done.

[Jumpy]

You make some good points per Rivals, but like I mentioned in a previous post, Rick Broering is the only one paid at that site. There are other members there, as well as other sources completely unrelated to Rivals, who have sources inside the X program. I would not keep being this persistent solely off of the word of people who are paid by Rivals. There are sources much closer to the heart who have provided details that I would not post on a public forum, but that's where I'm coming from. I guess we'll never really come to a conclusion to this so I'm done.

Fair enough.

[paulxu]

Maybe this was re-hashed to conclusion earlier in this thread, and if so I apologize.
But something about all of this confuses me in regard to commitments to recruits/players.

There is the argument that like an academic scholarship that you lose if you don't perform, then athletic scholarships might be pulled if you aren't performing. Although if you ride the pine the first year or two, "performance" would be debatable.

But we say that it is unfair to promise a ride, and then revoke it. Fair enough. But what do you do about Lyons/Redford in their 5th year at school? Their redshirt years may not be their fault, but if you wait until next April for them to decide if they are returning, you put the school at a big disadvantage if we need to fill 2 slots at that late date for Sept. 2012.

That puts them in control (if you assume we should honor a 5th year) in the outcome of our recruiting/team total efforts. Would it make sense to have them decide now, so we can recruit a full class for Sept of 2012...and maybe they have, which is why we are trying to be 2 "over" the projected total?

[danaandvictory]

But what do you do about Lyons/Redford in their 5th year at school? Their redshirt years may not be their fault, but if you wait until next April for them to decide if they are returning, you put the school at a big disadvantage if we need to fill 2 slots at that late date for Sept. 2012.

That puts them in control (if you assume we should honor a 5th year) in the outcome of our recruiting/team total efforts. Would it make sense to have them decide now, so we can recruit a full class for Sept of 2012...and maybe they have, which is why we are trying to be 2 "over" the projected total?

I've seen this speculation a few times. I certainly understand that people are stoked about the incoming recruits and prospects -- I am too.

Still, it is utterly bizarre to me that there are fans who would want Mark Lyons -- a very promising guard who made a huge leap last year and is poised to do it again -- to eschew his senior year so we can maybe get a guy down the road. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Upperclass point guards are the coin of the realm in college hoops.

[Mighty muskie]

Well this is the second post ever by me on this site. I have been a huge Xavier fan since the first sweet sixteen year in 90. I'm almost thirty so I'm life long. Along with my dad. Just a little insight. But I have followed these message boards for two years now and just decided to make my own profile on here. But I'm a huge cincy sports fan . Our bungles, reds, and let's just say I follow the bearcats. As my whole family is uc fans except my dad and I.I'm sure you know how that goes. But back to the comment I had in mind. I know Redford and Lyons will be fifth year seniors next year but I would not be happy if they both left after this year. I think to have both of them for there senior years would be huge. I mean they have both been through the wars. I cant believe having a freshman dsr would be better than having a senior Lyons. Not that dsr wouldn't be nice but I'm very excited for mark. His senior he could and should be the man. He has the personality to lead and is a freak athletically. And his decision making let's be honest got alot better halfway through his sophomore year. I think with continued development with decision making and raise his three point shooting up to the 37 to 43 range and the sky os the limit. And I remember a few games last year where mark lit it up from behind the arch. And finding a better percentage fromthe three point arch is not rocket science. Everyone knows how to do it. I just think he can be terrific for us. He may not have the junior year tu did last year but that's because there are alot more options this year. So my question is this, would you, hypothetically trade mark and brads senior year for the dsr commitment. Me it's not even close. It's mark and brad. But I do think the kid is a great player and if he would stay and get better with Mack andthe coaches who knows. But we are not dead w out him. Quite the opposite actually. We are beginning to be stocked with talent. I mean come on.

[muskiefan82]

Our bungles, reds, and let's just say I follow the bearcats. As my whole family is uc fans except my dad and I.I'm sure you know how that goes. But back to the comment I had in mind. I think to have both of them for there senior years would be huge. I mean they have both been through the wars.

Let the "fan of UC" and poor grammar jokes begin in 3....2......1......

[Mighty muskie]

Let the "fan of UC" and poor grammar jokes begin in 3....2......1......

......Not a fan of the bearkittens if thats what your implying. Just follow uc,even if it is watching games hoping they lose so i dont have to here about it at work or out with friends. not sure, hard to do this from my phone been running all day........Absolutely cannot wait for the season to start!!!!!!!

[paulxu]

Still, it is utterly bizarre to me that there are fans who would want Mark Lyons -- a very promising guard who made a huge leap last year and is poised to do it again -- to eschew his senior year so we can maybe get a guy down the road. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Upperclass point guards are the coin of the realm in college hoops.

Cheese, I wasn't clear I guess. Who wouldn't want Lyons and Redford back. I hope Brad has a breakout year. I'm by no means advocating that they be forced off the team by any stretch.

My point was totally different. We have honored a four year scholarship commitment to each of them by next May. Assumedly they'll have their degrees. I'm looking at it from the team side.

Let's say we give them 4 years of playing time in 5. Fair enough. But how do you plan for them potentially deciding to leave next May? If either, or both, say...I've graduated and decided to do something else with my life... Mack is way behind the eight ball to have a complete roster for 2012-2013. It's too late at that point to get quality players.

Just a hard situation I think with the redshirt years coming to play. Again, I'm not advocating to push those guys out. I'm asking how do you plan for the possibility that they decide to leave? Maybe you start planning now, and have conversations with them, etc.

[Masterofreality]

......Not a fan of the bearkittens if thats what your implying. Just follow uc,even if it is watching games hoping they lose so i dont have to here about it at work or out with friends. not sure, hard to do this from my phone been running all day........Absolutely cannot wait for the season to start!!!!!!!

Easy on the boy, folks.

He's new here and learning the ropes.

Welcome, Mighty Muskie, but I hope you can live up to standards set by the late poster by that name.

[Mighty muskie]

I had no idea it was someones old user name. Really, didn't mean to step on anybodys toes with name. But if all you have to do is be a huge Xavier fan than I am at the right place. I've waited along time to make my move up to having a profile on here. So, with November a few months away I couldn't take it anymore, I had to join. Well thanks for the welcome your getting a true Xavier fan. There isn't much anyone could tell me about Xavier basketball over the last twenty some odd years. But I love to talk about our team. That's it. I just love Xavier basketball!!!!!

[PMI]

I've seen this speculation a few times. I certainly understand that people are stoked about the incoming recruits and prospects -- I am too.

Still, it is utterly bizarre to me that there are fans who would want Mark Lyons -- a very promising guard who made a huge leap last year and is poised to do it again -- to eschew his senior year so we can maybe get a guy down the road. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Upperclass point guards are the coin of the realm in college hoops.


Well this is the second post ever by me on this site. I have been a huge Xavier fan since the first sweet sixteen year in 90. I'm almost thirty so I'm life long. Along with my dad. Just a little insight. But I have followed these message boards for two years now and just decided to make my own profile on here. But I'm a huge cincy sports fan . Our bungles, reds, and let's just say I follow the bearcats. As my whole family is uc fans except my dad and I.I'm sure you know how that goes. But back to the comment I had in mind. I know Redford and Lyons will be fifth year seniors next year but I would not be happy if they both left after this year. I think to have both of them for there senior years would be huge. I mean they have both been through the wars. I cant believe having a freshman dsr would be better than having a senior Lyons. Not that dsr wouldn't be nice but I'm very excited for mark. His senior he could and should be the man. He has the personality to lead and is a freak athletically. And his decision making let's be honest got alot better halfway through his sophomore year. I think with continued development with decision making and raise his three point shooting up to the 37 to 43 range and the sky os the limit. And I remember a few games last year where mark lit it up from behind the arch. And finding a better percentage fromthe three point arch is not rocket science. Everyone knows how to do it. I just think he can be terrific for us. He may not have the junior year tu did last year but that's because there are alot more options this year. So my question is this, would you, hypothetically trade mark and brads senior year for the dsr commitment. Me it's not even close. It's mark and brad. But I do think the kid is a great player and if he would stay and get better with Mack andthe coaches who knows. But we are not dead w out him. Quite the opposite actually. We are beginning to be stocked with talent. I mean come on.

Totally agree about Brad and Lyons. Our freshmen guards, as talented as they will be and even if DSR is one of them, are still going to be freshmen. I actually think Mark Lyons could be really, really good his senior year (and this year for that matter.) Hell, I think he'll be as good as anyone in the conference as a 5th year senior. And Redford is Reford. I know Myles Davis can shoot the lights out too, but there is only one Brad Redford. A healthy Brad Redford is going to shoot around 50% from three. You can't leave him open for a second. He may never be a starter, but he'll always be one of the most dangerous weapons in the conference, and I'm sure Mack would take that any day. Our incoming class is going to be outstanding, I have no doubt of that, but I'd rather they get acclimated to the program behind some key seniors and learn how to do it at the Flagship, as is tradition.

[Masterofreality]

I had no idea it was someones old user name. Really, didn't mean to step on anybodys toes with name. But if all you have to do is be a huge Xavier fan than I am at the right place. I've waited along time to make my move up to having a profile on here. So, with November a few months away I couldn't take it anymore, I had to join. Well thanks for the welcome your getting a true Xavier fan. There isn't much anyone could tell me about Xavier basketball over the last twenty some odd years. But I love to talk about our team. That's it. I just love Xavier basketball!!!!!

You're cool.

[muskiefan82]

Well this is the second post ever by me on this site. I have been a huge Xavier fan since the first sweet sixteen year in 90. I'm almost thirty so I'm life long. Along with my dad. Just a little insight. But I have followed these message boards for two years now and just decided to make my own profile on here. But I'm a huge cincy sports fan . Our bungles, reds, and let's just say I follow the bearcats. As my whole family is uc fans except my dad and I.I'm sure you know how that goes. But back to the comment I had in mind. I know Redford and Lyons will be fifth year seniors next year but I would not be happy if they both left after this year. I think to have both of them for there senior years would be huge. I mean they have both been through the wars. I cant believe having a freshman dsr would be better than having a senior Lyons. Not that dsr wouldn't be nice but I'm very excited for mark. His senior he could and should be the man. He has the personality to lead and is a freak athletically. And his decision making let's be honest got alot better halfway through his sophomore year. I think with continued development with decision making and raise his three point shooting up to the 37 to 43 range and the sky os the limit. And I remember a few games last year where mark lit it up from behind the arch. And finding a better percentage fromthe three point arch is not rocket science. Everyone knows how to do it. I just think he can be terrific for us. He may not have the junior year tu did last year but that's because there are alot more options this year. So my question is this, would you, hypothetically trade mark and brads senior year for the dsr commitment. Me it's not even close. It's mark and brad. But I do think the kid is a great player and if he would stay and get better with Mack andthe coaches who knows. But we are not dead w out him. Quite the opposite actually. We are beginning to be stocked with talent. I mean come on.


Let the "fan of UC" and poor grammar jokes begin in 3....2......1......

I thought you must be a troll with the name and everything....my apologies and welcome to the fold. You are among friends, fanatics, and fools. You can decide which.

[bleedXblue]

Totally agree about Brad and Lyons. Our freshmen guards, as talented as they will be and even if DSR is one of them, are still going to be freshmen. I actually think Mark Lyons could be really, really good his senior year (and this year for that matter.) Hell, I think he'll be as good as anyone in the conference as a 5th year senior. And Redford is Reford. I know Myles Davis can shoot the lights out too, but there is only one Brad Redford. A healthy Brad Redford is going to shoot around 50% from three. You can't leave him open for a second. He may never be a starter, but he'll always be one of the most dangerous weapons in the conference, and I'm sure Mack would take that any day. Our incoming class is going to be outstanding, I have no doubt of that, but I'd rather they get acclimated to the program behind some key seniors and learn how to do it at the Flagship, as is tradition.

Redford is good, but shooting at a 50% clip is likley not going to happen.

[PMI]

Redford is good, but shooting at a 50% clip is likley not going to happen.

He will shoot around 50% if he's healthy. He was 47% his freshman year. The kid is going to make about half if not more of his open looks, which he should get lots of in this offense. With his stroke and the players around him, he can absolutely shoot 50% on the season. It's definitely elite to shoot 50% from three in a season, but not unheard of, and he is every bit of an elite three point shooter.

[Mighty muskie]

Has anyone heard anything new about the dsr sweepstakes? When is the best possibility of his announcement?

[PMI]

Has anyone heard anything new about the dsr sweepstakes? When is the best possibility of his announcement?

It's impossible to predict with any certainty, but DSR has expressed recently that he wants to make a decision this month. So I guess you could say the best possibility of his announcement is within the next four weeks, but we'll see.

[MarvAlbert]

Looking at sonme of his tweets, he seems to be retweeting comments from Louisville and Xavier fans. No mentions of Georgetown or Texas, but of course, it is just twitter. Take it for what it's worth.

xu15anthony Anthony Sinders
by Dvauntes44
Hoping to see @Dvauntes44 in a X uni next season #xaviernation #xgonnagiveittoya

prodigy502 David Evans
by Dvauntes44
@Dvauntes44 and @rpurvis_44 both at Louisville would be Legit!! #CardNation

Dvauntes44 DVauntes SmithRivera
I'm on one..(NH) #shoutouttoUofLandXavierforshowinglove haha

[Titanxman04]

On what PMI said not too long ago...

Freshman are still freshman. It's rare and should be unexpected if a freshman steps up and contributes in a huge way. High school and high level D-I is a huge step up and the speed, intensity, and even the abilities of other players are a hell of a lot different too. These freshman are studs and will grow into bigger studs over their four years here. But I hold my expectations low for their production to begin with.

Mack and Co. always have preached defense first. Your ability to defend your man has been the standard for playing time. If Martin or Wells struggle on the defensive end, their playing time will be limited compared to the other players on the floor.

Every year we talk about some freshman who is disappointing and not stepping up. Lots jump on that and criticize said player. Let the season unfold, as always, and give these newcomers a chance to develop...

As for Lyons and Redford...I cannot freaking wait to see what they bring to the table come November.

[Muskie]

Indy Star update (http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2011/08/08/big-ten-program-showing-more-interest-in-smith-rivera/)
Xavier had been in the hunt until filling up at his position in its 2012 class.

“That kind of took them out of the mix,” he said. “They had two players at my position.”

[anXUfan]

Indy Star update (http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2011/08/08/big-ten-program-showing-more-interest-in-smith-rivera/)
Xavier had been in the hunt until filling up at his position in its 2012 class.

“That kind of took them out of the mix,” he said. “They had two players at my position.”

Basically what common sense would dictate.

[Jumpy]

Where's throwdown and rhyno to tell me how wrong I was?

[Backyard Champ]

Where's throwdown and rhyno to tell me how wrong I was?

Not a done deal yet, but if I remember correctly, someone is going to owe a lot of people beers.

[XU-PA]

Can't really tell how old this is, but it's on the Fox Sports.com video page. Interview with DSR.
Talks about his move to Oak Hill, and his recruiting, Sounds not impressed, but is nice talking about Texas, a little more talk about UL, but when he talks about XU a big smile and talks about how nice it is to visit.

Anyone know how old this is????

http://msn.foxsports.com/video/college-basketball

the link is the fourth screen down on the right side

[LA Muskie]

Indy Star update (http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2011/08/08/big-ten-program-showing-more-interest-in-smith-rivera/)
Xavier had been in the hunt until filling up at his position in its 2012 class.

“That kind of took them out of the mix,” he said. “They had two players at my position.”
A lot quieter in this thread after that. I mean, it was obvious. But I guess some people need to be hit on the head with things.

[MuskiePimp23]

A lot quieter in this thread after that. I mean, it was obvious. But I guess some people need to be hit on the head with things.

Not obvious at all...If you really follow recruiting and have contacts close to the program, DSR could still end up at X, but not nearly as likely at this point...Things work themselves out in college basketball and if DSR waits until the Spring to commit, I could see us potentially getting him...the bottom line is we are already 1 scholarship over and Semaj Christon is a stud with huge upside...The staff was comfortable taking his commitment instead of waiting around another month on DSR...If we had waited, I am very confident DSR would have committed to Xavier this month...He is still very high on us, just that the people around him had too much influence in dragging the decision out for him.

[LA Muskie]

Not obvious at all...If you really follow recruiting and have contacts close to the program, DSR could still end up at X, but not nearly as likely at this point...Things work themselves out in college basketball and if DSR waits until the Spring to commit, I could see us potentially getting him...the bottom line is we are already 1 scholarship over and Semaj Christon is a stud with huge upside...The staff was comfortable taking his commitment instead of waiting around another month on DSR...If we had waited, I am very confident DSR would have committed to Xavier this month...He is still very high on us, just that the people around him had too much influence in dragging the decision out for him.

But that's the point. It's all relative and this was relatively obvious. The process is fluid. Circumstances change. That doesn't have to be good or bad. It can just be.

[PMI]

A lot quieter in this thread after that. I mean, it was obvious. But I guess some people need to be hit on the head with things.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, so this is the last I'm going to say, but this is inaccurate. This thing was very close to happening very recently, even if people watching it from the outside came to different conclusions based on sheer numbers. People can believe whatever they choose, I'm not going to get into it again.

And if DSR commits elsewhere, I will happily pay up all beers knowing that our 2012 class is a monster and that a 5 star stud missed on his first choice school.

[LA Muskie]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, so this is the last I'm going to say, but this is inaccurate. This thing was very close to happening very recently, even if people watching it from the outside came to different conclusions based on sheer numbers. People can believe whatever they choose, I'm not going to get into it again.

And if DSR commits elsewhere, I will happily pay up all beers knowing that our 2012 class is a monster and that a 5 star stud missed on his first choice school.

By "very recently" do you mean pre- or post-Simaj? Seems to me he really liked us, but others got in his ear and then circumstances changed for everyone when Simaj committed. We continued to recruit him. He continued to say all the right things afterward because he didn't want to disappoint or offend, and probably because he wanted them to be true himself. But that quote from him sums it up -- realistically speaking the ship sailed when Simaj came aboard. And that's just fine. We'll be alright and so will he. These things have a way of working out. Even Steven...

[Jumpy]

It does impress me that you Rivals guys are still gnawing on that bone, refusing to believe that he (and we) have well and truly moved on. It must have been some really interesting stuff they were telling you.

[rhyno2110]

Jumpy I'm right here, and you are still wrong:D

[Jumpy]

Jumpy I'm right here, and you are still wrong:D



Indy Star update (http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2011/08/08/big-ten-program-showing-more-interest-in-smith-rivera/)
Xavier had been in the hunt until filling up at his position in its 2012 class.

“That kind of took them out of the mix,” he said. “They had two players at my position.”



Pretty much what I was saying, wan't it?

[ThePowerOfX]

Pretty much what I was saying, wan't it?

You said we basically stopped recruiting him, which absolutely never happened.

I really do not understand what you have against the Rivals board and people who get their info from there.

[PMI]

My info is by no means just from Rivals, and LA, yes, I do mean post-Semaj. Again, it's the great nation of America, thus everyone's entitled to believe what they want without all the facts.

[Jumpy]

Yes. Bigfoot roams the hills of eastern Ohio, aliens have underwater coloniesin all the earth's major oceans... and there's still a shot that DSR will commit to X, even though he himself said he isn't looking this way because we have two committed guards in his class.

[bleedXblue]

This is a classic case where I am sure Mack and Co offered DSR, but without a firm commitment, they had to move on at some point.

And so do we.

This program has never been about 1 guy.

I love our recruits and we will continue to be a great program without this guy.

[MADXSTER]

Yes. Bigfoot roams the hills of eastern Ohio, aliens have underwater coloniesin all the earth's major oceans... and there's still a shot that DSR will commit to X, even though he himself said he isn't looking this way because we have two committed guards in his class.

He's refered as the 'Ohio Grassman'.

[XUFan09]

Sounds like the coaching staff was trying to figure out whether they could get a scholarship post-Christon and it just didn't work out.

[RealDeal]

Yes. Bigfoot roams the hills of eastern Ohio, .

Sign him!

[PMI]

Yes. Bigfoot roams the hills of eastern Ohio, aliens have underwater coloniesin all the earth's major oceans... and there's still a shot that DSR will commit to X, even though he himself said he isn't looking this way because we have two committed guards in his class.

Not sure if this is directed at me, but all I said, and have said the whole time, is that DSR's re-commitment was still not only possible, but likely up until well after Semaj committed. XUFan09 is exactly right. The staff was (and has not necessarily stopped) trying to find a way to make it work for him, because they absolutely could've (quite frankly would've) gotten him. Not exactly on line with Bigfoot, but your fallaciousness remains amusing.

[Jumpy]

Fallacious, huh? Seems to me that my logic was completely sound and turned out to be right all along.

[Masterofreality]

Apparently DSR still has a soft spot for XU based upon this re-tweet from this morning.

xu15anthony Anthony Sinders
re-tweet by Dvauntes44
@Dvauntes44 choose X...high class program, close to home, winning tradition. What more could you want? Xavier Nation wants you at X!

[GoMuskies]

Apparently DSR still has a soft spot for XU based upon this re-tweet from this morning.

xu15anthony Anthony Sinders
re-tweet by Dvauntes44
@Dvauntes44 choose X...high class program, close to home, winning tradition. What more could you want? Xavier Nation wants you at X!

Maybe he was re-tweeting it so the NCAA could see it.

[Masterofreality]

Apparently DSR still has a soft spot for XU based upon this re-tweet from this morning.

xu15anthony Anthony Sinders
re-tweet by Dvauntes44
@Dvauntes44 choose X...high class program, close to home, winning tradition. What more could you want? Xavier Nation wants you at X!


Maybe he was re-tweeting it so the NCAA could see it.

I doubt that someone with the handle of "xu15" can be considered a "booster".

You should see how some of the Louisville fans tweet to recruits.

[GoMuskies]

and Kentucky, and UNC, and Duke, and on and on and on...

Any member of the X Factor is likely a booster under NCAA rules, so a student could certainly qualify.

[Masterofreality]

and Kentucky, and UNC, and Duke, and on and on and on...

Any member of the X Factor is likely a booster under NCAA rules, so a student could certainly qualify.

Well, if he truly is "xu15" that means he hasn't even taken his first class yet as a freshman.

[94GRAD]

Well, if he truly is "xu15" that means he hasn't even taken his first class yet as a freshman.

Maybe they are already planning on being a "Super" Senior.

[GoMuskies]

Well, if he truly is "xu15" that means he hasn't even taken his first class yet as a freshman.

Maybe he knows he's on the five year plan already. :)

[X-band '01]

I doubt that someone with the handle of "xu15" can be considered a "booster".

You should see how some of the Louisville fans tweet to recruits.

Short, sweet and quick.

No, that's Rick Pitino. Never mind.

[paulxu]

Any member of the X Factor is likely a booster under NCAA rules, so a student could certainly qualify.

I thought we were all covered under the "Swampy Meadows/Muddy Waters Exemption" rule as media contributors/reporters on the awesome Xavier Hoops Message Board.

That's what my editor Muskie told me. (Even though his press pass did not get me into the Peach Jam for some reason)

[LA Muskie]

Not sure if this is directed at me, but all I said, and have said the whole time, is that DSR's re-commitment was still not only possible, but likely up until well after Semaj committed. XUFan09 is exactly right. The staff was (and has not necessarily stopped) trying to find a way to make it work for him, because they absolutely could've (quite frankly would've) gotten him. Not exactly on line with Bigfoot, but your fallaciousness remains amusing.
PMI, I'm somehow missing your point (and that's in all serious -- you're usually quite clear). You say that he loves XU. I don't see anyone arguing against that. You say we love him. I don't see anyone arguing against that.

You then say he likely would've come if we could "make it work for him." What do you mean by that? If it had anything to do with the signing of 2 PG's already, or the lack of available scholarships, then I don't see how that's different than most people posting about this (and certainly me). If that's not what created the difficulty, then what is it?

Sometimes the timing sucks. Sometimes love just isn't enough. I'm off to write that ballad now...

[NY44]

I still say yes with a lot of faith. Who could he possibly be waiting for that will realistically give him an offer? He wanted to keep playing his cards and if Indiana or Purdue aren't the Aces he was waiting for then I don't see it happening. He didn't commit for nothing he likes the school he just needs to come on back.

[Jumpy]

I still say yes with a lot of faith. Who could he possibly be waiting for that will realistically give him an offer? He wanted to keep playing his cards and if Indiana or Purdue aren't the Aces he was waiting for then I don't see it happening. He didn't commit for nothing he likes the school he just needs to come on back.

I'm guessing you're a little behind on the news. Check out Muskie's post (I believe it was Muskie) with a quote from DSR.

[Masterofreality]

The DSR ship has sailed......for now, but....

We have had a few transfers in after a year or two like, uh, some guy named Jordan Crawford and another guy who, I think, his name was Jamel MacLean. Those worked out a bit above average.

You don't know what the future holds. Wish 'em well. They may want to come back to you.

[MADXSTER]

The DSR ship has sailed......for now, but....

We have had a few transfers in after a year or two like, uh, some guy named Jordan Crawford and another guy who, I think, his name was Jamel MacLean. Those worked out a bit above average.

You don't know what the future holds. Wish 'em well. They may want to come back to you.

This has been my thought entirely.

[LA Muskie]

The DSR ship has sailed......for now, but....

We have had a few transfers in after a year or two like, uh, some guy named Jordan Crawford and another guy who, I think, his name was Jamel MacLean. Those worked out a bit above average.

You don't know what the future holds. Wish 'em well. They may want to come back to you.
Couldn't agree more.

[HuskyMuskie]

This deserves to be brought back up.

82 - NO.
49 - YES.

This is the thought of our XH fanbase as of today as to wether or not DSR will be a Xavier Musketeer. Being now even with scolarships, signing DSR will put us only one over. Yes, I understand we already recruited two guards, and yes, I read the Indianapolis Star article about how that nearly shut the door on Xavier, so spare me.

But, does anybody want to change their vote? Or do the people believe we will sign anyone else in 2012? Just curious to hear your thoughts. Personally, I think there is still a possibility that DSR will come to Xavier.

[PMI]

I've felt the whole time that something was going to happen to work itself out and that DSR would be a Musketeer. I'm not swaying from that. I didn't foresee it being Sim's scholarship, but again, the chips always seem to fall into place after you over-sign.

[MADXSTER]

I think it's up to DSR. I don't think Xavier will push like they have in the past but at the same time I don't think they'll completely shut the door on him.

[Emp]

Personally, Im reserving a seat at Danas. I can taste that cold brewskie right now. No vote change.

[xufan02]

This is a topic that just will not die; I'm sticking with my Yes vote despite everything said in public.

[LA Muskie]

I don't think the number of schollies is what did it for him. It was the logjam at his position. That hasn't changed. Also, you over sign because these things happen. But you don't then re-over sign when they do. Otherwise you are in a perpetual problem.

[PMI]

I don't think the number of schollies is what did it for him. It was the logjam at his position. That hasn't changed. Also, you over sign because these things happen. But you don't then re-over sign when they do. Otherwise you are in a perpetual problem.

I strongly doubt his interest ever was affected by the fact that Christon also plays PG, despite what he's said publicly. People want to have it both ways. When something comes from the horses mouth that supports their opinion, they believe it. Most of them are the same people who thought the horse's words lost all credibility after he backed out last year. But of course you don't perpetually over-sign, but I guarantee Mack and company would have no problem whatsoever over-signing with a year to go with the 2012 class, especially considering two of the commits in the class have quite notable grade issues. I think it's almost a guarantee we sign somebody, which makes me very confident that the staff will pursue DSR. This was his only ever first choice after all, even if other things arose during his career.

[xufan02]

I don't think the number of schollies is what did it for him. It was the logjam at his position. That hasn't changed. Also, you over sign because these things happen. But you don't then re-over sign when they do. Otherwise you are in a perpetual problem.

This is not even close. Do you think a 5 star player is worried about a log jam at his position? If he is really that good he will play. Why would Xavier not oversign again, we average at least one offseason transfer a year, that hasn't changed.

[A10fan]

I say bring on Torian Graham. He'll play the 2 anyway!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

From what I am hearing about Graham from scoping various boards which is probably worthless, is that he also has qualifying issues.

Mack and Co. are smart and good at what they do. I woudl guesst they stand pat in 2011 and go to battle with what they have which is great and maybe work on over recruiting in 2012 and definitely look to 2013 for an awesome class. Remember we have 6'10 and 6'9 forwards coming in and one has beast length.

[XULucho27]

I'm keeping my yes vote if only to keep daydreaming about the highly unlikely and remote possibility that we will have a guard rotation that consists of Cheeks, Davis, Christon, and DSR.

*wipes drool off chin*

[Billy]

Why would Xavier not oversign again, we average at least one offseason transfer a year, that hasn't changed.

However, oversigning (which was a Miller characteristic, especially with 3s) has most likely exacerbated the transfer trend over the last 5 seasons.

I'm not here to say that's inherently good or bad. There's worse things than creating competition for PT. What I do know, is that with Sim being out, I do hope the remaining offers for 2013 are primarily aimed at 4s & 5s.

[XUFan09]

However, oversigning (which was a Miller characteristic, especially with 3s) has most likely exacerbated the transfer trend over the last 5 seasons.

I'm not here to say that's inherently good or bad. There's worse things than creating competition for PT. What I do know, is that with Sim being out, I do hope the remaining offers for 2013 are primarily aimed at 4s & 5s.

Miller/Mack may be a part of it through oversigning and other factors, but transfers are also just a growing nationwide trend over the past decade, with the transfer rate per school per year at something like 1.1 or 1.2. And transfer rates are higher among the top 100 to 150 players that Miller/Mack have been bringing in since 2007-2008.

[XUFan09]

I had to go find the article to see where I learned that top recruits transfer at a much higher rate. Great article by Luke Winn, "The Commitment Project." In his analysis, he found out that just under 1 in every 4 top 100 players transfers, which is almost 2 1/2 times an already high D1 average. The article goes on to discuss a number of factors at play.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/luke_winn/08/01/commitment.trends/index.html

[XUFan09]

From what I am hearing about Graham from scoping various boards which is probably worthless, is that he also has qualifying issues.

I bet Graham joins the class of 2013, unless like Sim he's unable to do so.

[SixFig]

I'm keeping my yes vote if only to keep daydreaming about the highly unlikely and remote possibility that we will have a guard rotation that consists of Cheeks, Davis, Christon, and DSR.

*wipes drool off chin*

Don't forget it's Dee Davis and Myles Davis...throw in maybe a little Dez or Justin Martin at the 2 and thats a lot of competition for 80 minutes at the PG/SG

[XUFan09]

Don't forget it's Dee Davis and Myles Davis...throw in maybe a little Dez or Justin Martin at the 2 and thats a lot of competition for 80 minutes at the PG/SG

Heck, that's a lot of competition for 120 minutes at the PG/SG/SF.

[LA Muskie]

This is not even close. Do you think a 5 star player is worried about a log jam at his position? If he is really that good he will play. Why would Xavier not oversign again, we average at least one offseason transfer a year, that hasn't changed.
Well, since he said that he moved on when we signed Semaj, yes I do.

As for over-signing, if the theory is that you over-sign because you inevitably lose players, then when you actually lose players that evens things out. If you replace those lost players with more scholarship offers, then you are creating a perpetual problem. At some point you run out of players leaving.

[XUFan09]

Well, since he said that he moved on when we signed Semaj, yes I do.

As for over-signing, if the theory is that you over-sign because you inevitably lose players, then when you actually lose players that evens things out. If you replace those lost players with more scholarship offers, then you are creating a perpetual problem. At some point you run out of players leaving.

Oversigning by two proved a lot more difficult than oversigning by one. So when Semaj's commit put us one over and then the staff couldn't find where another scholarship would come from, Xavier was no longer available for DSR.

He said how Xavier was out of the race due to already having two players at his position, but his other choices right now are also stocking up at the guard spots too. The comment just doesn't connect logically.

As for oversigning, maybe the potential for someone decommitting was part of the reason the coaching staff oversigned in the first place. More specifically, maybe they knew when Semaj committed that Sim stood a good chance of not making it to Xavier. However, what if that actually wasn't part of the reason and they expect a spot to open up from a transfer or early departure instead? The coaching staff knows the situation much better than us, so we can only speculate for now, but if it's the second scenario, then there doesn't seem to be a problem with oversigning again.

[PMI]

He said how Xavier was out of the race due to already having two players at his position, but his other choices right now are also stocking up at the guard spots too. The comment just doesn't connect logically.


Thank you. People need to stop taking quotes literally, particularly when they're taking SELECTIVE quotes literally. People used to disregard DSR's words before he started
(very recently) saying things that supported their side. Smith-Rivera IS an option. Deal with it.

[LA Muskie]

Thank you. People need to stop taking quotes literally, particularly when they're taking SELECTIVE quotes literally. People used to disregard DSR's words before he started
(very recently) saying things that supported their side. Smith-Rivera IS an option. Deal with it.
I totally agree with you that we shouldn't take quotes literally. But the odds that DSR was any more worried that XU wouldn't have a schollie for him, than he might be about competing for court time with others, are pretty low. Neither excuse makes much sense. Which brings us back to square 1 I guess.

[XUFan09]

Why doesn't it make sense for DSR to potentially worry about getting a scholarship at Xavier. The staff was already one over the limit and apparently wasn't able to find where a second scholarship would come from. Xavier might tell a player that he won't get a lot of playing time, but they won't simply drop a player. At least, I don't think Mack would do that.

So, considering the situation, there wasn't a scholarship for DSR before, despite how much the staff wanted him. That would give him legitimate cause to "worry," or maybe more appropriately, accept that he wouldn't get a scholarship at Xavier. Now, there still might not be a scholarship for him. That all depends on what information the coaching staff had when they decided it was okay to oversign in the first place.

[LA Muskie]

Why doesn't it make sense for DSR to potentially worry about getting a scholarship at Xavier. The staff was already one over the limit and apparently wasn't able to find where a second scholarship would come from. Xavier might tell a player that he won't get a lot of playing time, but they won't simply drop a player. At least, I don't think Mack would do that.

So, considering the situation, there wasn't a scholarship for DSR before, despite how much the staff wanted him. That would give him legitimate cause to "worry," or maybe more appropriately, accept that he wouldn't get a scholarship at Xavier. Now, there still might not be a scholarship for him. That all depends on what information the coaching staff had when they decided it was okay to oversign in the first place.

Well, except that by most reports from those on this board with inside knowledge, we're still recruiting him as hard or harder. Which is it?

[XUFan09]

Well, except that by most reports from those on this board with inside knowledge, we're still recruiting him as hard or harder. Which is it?

From what I gathered over the past few weeks:

- X was at the scholarship limit after the Davis commit but many said over-signing was not a problem. Christon and DSR were the two targets.
- Christon committed. DSR said it didn't change his opinion on X.
- Behind the scenes, the coaching staff was working to see how it might be possible to over-sign by two while continuing to recruit DSR hard. This is the point of the timeline you're referencing. Things happened after that.
- About two weeks after the Christon commit, word started surfacing that the staff wasn't able to find that spot. DSR confirmed that by saying that Xavier was no longer of his choices.
- At this point, the staff was apparently no longer pursuing DSR. For all intensive purposes, the class of 2012 complete, unless something unusual happened.
- Something unusual did happen, as we've gathered in the past couple days. Sim out but DSR in? Word is now that DSR still has an interest, now that X is a possibility again. Now, does the coaching staff have an interest in over-signing again to get him.

[PMI]

There's greater than a 100% chance that somebody is going to transfer after this season. It happens every year and will happen again. On top of that, we have multiple 2012 commits who have grade issues, and we all know a lot of things can happen between now and then. I just don't see any way we don't over-sign. DSR never lost interest in Xavier just as sure as Sim still wishes he were at Xavier right now. I have a feeling I'm going to be getting really thirsty soon here...

[LA Muskie]

There's greater than a 100% chance that somebody is going to transfer after this season. It happens every year and will happen again. On top of that, we have multiple 2012 commits who have grade issues, and we all know a lot of things can happen between now and then. I just don't see any way we don't over-sign. DSR never lost interest in Xavier just as sure as Sim still wishes he were at Xavier right now. I have a feeling I'm going to be getting really thirsty soon here...

Greater than 100%, huh? Sounds like Shaq math. You know, like "we need to do a full 360 this offseason..."

[MuskiePimp23]

Greater than 100%, huh? Sounds like Shaq math. You know, like "we need to do a full 360 this offseason..."

What he means is that somebody is very likely to leave...What I don't get in watching this back and forth between PMI and LA is that PMI actually has some good info that he is basing his conclusions on...LA seems to be very skeptical thinking that DSR will never be a Muskie questioning PMI's information...My point to LA is if you question everything, why not join the Rivals board so you actually have some information and can make your own conclusions and you can be getting some of the info that PMI is basing his conclusions on. It is definitely worth it and you get the information there that you keep questioning here.

Personally, I think DSR will also end up in a Xavier uniform...I think it will end up coming down to Xavier and Michigan St, but I think his relationship with our staff will be the difference maker.

The other people who keep throwing out a bunch of stuff and questioning all these scenarios and question Brian Snow on his tweets should join the rivals board as Rick Broering has really picked up the slack. The site really pays for itself now on weeks like this on getting to the bottom of why Sim actually left and why we are very much in play for DSR.

[LA Muskie]

What he means is that somebody is very likely to leave...What I don't get in watching this back and forth between PMI and LA is that PMI actually has some good info that he is basing his conclusions on...LA seems to be very skeptical thinking that DSR will never be a Muskie questioning PMI's information...My point to LA is if you question everything, why not join the Rivals board so you actually have some information and can make your own conclusions and you can be getting some of the info that PMI is basing his conclusions on. It is definitely worth it and you get the information there that you keep questioning here.

Personally, I think DSR will also end up in a Xavier uniform...I think it will end up coming down to Xavier and Michigan St, but I think his relationship with our staff will be the difference maker.

The other people who keep throwing out a bunch of stuff and questioning all these scenarios and question Brian Snow on his tweets should join the rivals board as Rick Broering has really picked up the slack. The site really pays for itself now on weeks like this on getting to the bottom of why Sim actually left and why we are very much in play for DSR.

1. I have no problem with PMI.
2. I think he's probably right that we'll see another transfer in the next year. Odds certainly point in that direction.
3. I was just kidding around with my last post because there is no "more than 100%"
4. I subscribe to Rivals. I like the site. It's often a great resource. Unfortunately Rick still has a ways to go before he will have developed the relationships within the program that Snow had.
5. I have no idea if DSR will end up a Muskie next year or later. All I'm saying is that the wind blows in many directions. Especially on this one. It could go our way. I might not. I hope we get him, but my gut tells me we won't -- although not for lack of trying. And I'm fine with that too.

[gladdenguy]

I am sick of people comparing Rick to Snow like he should be on an equal level.
Snow had a ton of connections and he moved on. Probably makes a little bit more money and is definitely on a bigger stage.
Snow was a terrible writer and would definitely act like a prick from time to time.
Rick is a very nice guy.....working his way up and developing connections along the way.
Give the guy a frickin break. Its 100 bucks a year. Its not expensive.
Snow is gone. Get the fk over it.

[XBR1]

I am sick of people comparing Rick to Snow like he should be on an equal level.
Snow had a ton of connections and he moved on. Probably makes a little bit more money and is definitely on a bigger stage.
Snow was a terrible writer and would definitely act like a prick from time to time.
Rick is a very nice guy.....working his way up and developing connections along the way.
Give the guy a frickin break. Its 100 bucks a year. Its not expensive.
Snow is gone. Get the fk over it.

Snow always thought he was bigger than he was. He got the axe and moved on. Rick is definitely doing a good job.

[jhelmes37]

I actually prefer Rick to Snow. He may not have the connections just yet, but he's way more receptive, and he gives us what we want. Snow would hold back information and act like he was too good for us. It seemed pretty elitist at times. Props to Rick, he's come into his own in the past few months.

[MuskiePimp23]

1. I have no problem with PMI.
2. I think he's probably right that we'll see another transfer in the next year. Odds certainly point in that direction.
3. I was just kidding around with my last post because there is no "more than 100%"
4. I subscribe to Rivals. I like the site. It's often a great resource. Unfortunately Rick still has a ways to go before he will have developed the relationships within the program that Snow had.
5. I have no idea if DSR will end up a Muskie next year or later. All I'm saying is that the wind blows in many directions. Especially on this one. It could go our way. I might not. I hope we get him, but my gut tells me we won't -- although not for lack of trying. And I'm fine with that too.

I think Rick did not have the connections early on, but I think especially noticing his sources early in the Summer that he has caught up in a big way...He may not be as connected as Snow just yet, but he still has some very, very good sources and his information is almost spot on...I remember someone posting on the rivals board that Semaj was not interested in Xavier and Rick said that was just flat out wrong, then about a week later Semaj commits to give an example. I just wish he wrote more info on his AFO reports...Snows were a bit longer and had more information generally.

[LA Muskie]

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was bagging on Rick. That wasn't the intent. He has a learning curve but I think he's very good.

[PMI]

I also like Rick. He's a pretty good writer, unlike Snow who I can't imagine graduated from high school, and is almost always accessible and willing to answer things as best he can. Snow definitely holds back, and if he doesn't, then he's just a downright bullshitter. When the Sim fiasco went down last week he acted like it was no surprise, even though it was a major surprise to literally everyone. I really don't miss him to be honest.

[MADXSTER]

I just wish he wrote more info on his AFO reports...Snows were a bit longer and had more information generally.

Agree but at the same time I think it's shorter because he gives out more info to begin with.

[MuskiePimp23]

Agree but at the same time I think it's shorter because he gives out more info to begin with.

Totally agree with that...I think Snow held some back, specifically so his AFO reports had more premium information...Rick shares a lot on the message board, more so definitely than Snow did.

[NY44]

I'm sure everyone's sick of the DSR saga but I thought a tweet by @TheRecruitScoop was worth mentioning

"@TheRecruitScoop: Xavier & Georgetown will watch former Musketeer commit D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, a 2012 SG from Oak Hill (VA), workout on Saturday."

We're still in this or we wouldn't be sending staff to Virginia.

[Masterofreality]

I'm sure everyone's sick of the DSR saga but I thought a tweet by @TheRecruitScoop was worth mentioning

"@TheRecruitScoop: Xavier & Georgetown will watch former Musketeer commit D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, a 2012 SG from Oak Hill (VA), workout on Saturday."

We're still in this or we wouldn't be sending staff to Virginia.

Travis "Steal" is right there, and so is Xavier.

Hold on to the roller coaster rails.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Mack was at Oak Hill to watch DSR yesterday then came back and saw Devin Williams today.

[Masterofreality]

Tweet - also posted in the Tweets you don't love:

AdamZagoria Adam Zagoria
Oak Hill guard D`Vauntes Smith-Rivera visits Georgetown Sept. 23, per Steve Smith

[XUFan09]

Tweet - also posted in the Tweets you don't love:

AdamZagoria Adam Zagoria
Oak Hill guard D`Vauntes Smith-Rivera visits Georgetown Sept. 23, per Steve Smith

Someone pointed out that Kyle Anderson (GT's #1 priority) is set to decide September 20, so this timing makes sense, as DSR is their #2 option.

Someone else pointed out that Christon had a visit scheduled to Illinois that he never made because of his X commitment.

We'll see what happens, I suppose.

[Emp]

so........no news is good news? I cant find any post Gtown visit news on this thread.

[CleXU]

He had a couple tweets saying how well the visit was going while he was there and after he left. Also, he has now scheduled a visit to Memphis... i'll try and pull the tweets later when i got some time.

[boozehound]

He had a couple tweets saying how well the visit was going while he was there and after he left. Also, he has now scheduled a visit to Memphis... i'll try and pull the tweets later when i got some time.

Sounds more and more like this kid isn't anywhere close to picking a school. Hopefully this isn't a case of a parent or handler who is getting his rocks off going on visits.

[X-man]

Sounds more and more like this kid isn't anywhere close to picking a school. Hopefully this isn't a case of a parent or handler who is getting his rocks off going on visits.

Unfortunately, it appears to be just that.

[xu95]

Sounds more and more like this kid isn't anywhere close to picking a school. Hopefully this isn't a case of a parent or handler who is getting his rocks off going on visits.

Why not take your visits? They are free and to places you would probably not go on your own. Hell I would do it, if I was in High School and had any kind of athletic talent.

xu95

[bobbiemcgee]

"DSR said today he will be taking visits to Iran, Iraq, and the Soviet Union before deciding. He is also studying Lebanese and Chinese. He also hopes to bounce a basketball off the Wailing Wall prior to Christmas." :D

[GreatWhiteNorth]

"DSR said today he will be taking visits to Iran, Iraq, and the Soviet Union before deciding. He is also studying Lebanese and Chinese. He also hopes to bounce a basketball off the Wailing Wall prior to Christmas." :D
Oh Yes! He should do all that and MORE. Why not! He's been a good listener (to his handler).

[xu15]

I don't think we need this kid either, but don't bash recruits on here.

[bobbiemcgee]

I don't think we need this kid either, but don't bash recruits on here.

Bash? Reps say people thought it was funny. The green smiley face in the post might have tipped this off. Try to be a little less judgmental.:D.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't think we need this kid either, but don't bash recruits on here.

Lol

[xu15]

Not like its a big deal, and I knew your post was a joke. The handler thing was a little more what I don't want recruits to see when they come on these sites. I find more unimportant reasons to post in the off season I guess

[GoMuskies]

Lol

And you want to be my latex salesman?

[X-man]

Why not take your visits? They are free and to places you would probably not go on your own. Hell I would do it, if I was in High School and had any kind of athletic talent.

xu95

I thought that there was a limit on the number of free "official" visits you could make.

[nkymuskie]

I thought that there was a limit on the number of free "official" visits you could make.

There is. I think it's 4-5. Or maybe 3. I just know that there is a limit

[Tardy Turtle]

"In Soviet Russia, official visit takes you!"

http://www.discoverbranson.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/yakov3.jpg

[xufan02]

Recruits can take 5 official visits. DSR has offically gone to NC State and Georgetown. He has visits scheduled to Louisville and Memphis. At this point I think our chances are very slim.

[Masterofreality]

http://www.discoverbranson.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/yakov3.jpg

Know where Yakov Smirnoff is now? He owns a motel with his own Comedy Club as a part of it in Branson, Missouri.

Talk about disappearing off the grid!!

[nkymuskie]

DSR tweeted this a while ago, September 22. I'm in the camp that we are out of the running with him.

Who's it gonna be man its tough, Memphis, G town, NC state, Louisville? Crazy!!

It looks like that's his final 4.

[GoMuskies]

It looks like that's his final 4.

Sure, but is it his FINAL, final 4, or is it just an interim final 4. I tend to think this means we can write all four of those schools off.

[paulxu]

Go away already. Starting to sound like American Idol.

[Juice]

BSnowScout Brian Snow
D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera is official to Georgetown

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Thank God this soap opera is over. Unfortunately for PMI, he owes about 50 different members a beer