Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[STL_XUfan]

As untrustworthy of a source as you can get, but makes you wonder if something could be coming.

InsideTide (http://twitter.com/#%21/InsideTide) InsideTheCrimsonTide
Texas A&M could be on the move . Meeting with board of regents Thurs to discuss move to the SEC. That means SEC will shopping for two. SM

A&M was basically begging to join the SEC last time around, so if the SEC is offering, I am guessing A&M is listening.

[X-band '01]

I don't think they'll leave if Texas is staying put in the Big X for now.

[xudash]

I don't think they'll leave if Texas is staying put in the Big X for now.

band, you aren't looking at this the right way, IMO.

The power players behind A&M are furious with what came down with Texas's private Longhorn TV deal, coupled with how things are moving along with the Big XII package. In essence, Texas is sitting with Boardwalk and Park Place with hotels on both and they own the railroads and a couple other properties to boot now.

That doesn't sit well with a major in-state rival who wants its own glory and respected place at the table.

I figured the Big XII would crack first because of Texas's overwhelming position in it. I figured that based on the BE having no clear, overwhelming choices for adding new football members. I just didn't think it would happen so soon.

Wowzer.

And some stuff from the A&M world:

http://v4.texags.com/Stories/2411

[danaandvictory]

I don't think they'll leave if Texas is staying put in the Big X for now.

I have the opposite view -- I think A&M would love to move to the SEC now that Texas pulled the Longhorn Network power play. A&M has a real inferiority complex toward Austin -- listen to their fight song, for Chrissakes -- and their administration might view this as the only way to one-up UT.

[STL_XUfan]

I don't think they'll leave if Texas is staying put in the Big X for now.

I think texas has alienated most of the Big X(-II) because of what happened in the last shuffle. Texas not only receives an unequal payout that is more than double most of the schools in the BigXii, they used their flirtation with the pac10 to make the rest of the big xii schools agree to pay to texas all of the buyout money from colorado and nebraska for the privilege of affiliating with texas. Further they were able to use their power to establish their own tv network in which they get to keep all of the profits (think that would have been allowed in any other BCS conference?).

I think if BigXii teams get a whiff of another offer they are going to go running to get out of Texas's fiefdom known as the Big Xii (Oklahoma excluded).

Also, what is going to be on the longhorn network? One would think a major draw in texas would be shows on recruiting for the longhorns, however, since it is owned and operated by the Texas athletic department they can't mention or talk about any recruit until they have signed a letter of intent or else it will be considered publicizing recruits, which is not allowed under the NCAA rules.

[X-band '01]

For starters, they're going to have one football game and a select number of basketball games on their network.

As far as A&M being jealous of Texas's TV deal, they're not unique in that regard. Nebraska was clearly fed up with playing second fiddle to Texas and eventually wound up switching over to the Big 10. If I'm not mistaken, the Big 10 could still elect to add a few teams to their conference down the line.

At the end of the day, how will A&M do in a conference that no longer has Nebraska or Colorado? Who knows, maybe the Big East could always go after member #18 and give TCU a travel partner...

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Cmon AM...We need the dominoes to fall if we ever want to get out of the A10

[STL_XUfan]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-07-20/big-12-texas-put-longhorn-network-plans-for-hs-games-on-hold

Best line of the article:
“That would not be a way we want a recruiting advantage," [Dodds] said, according to the Morning News. "This will be a service to high school football. We don’t want it tied to Texas.”

[muskienick]

This might be an off-the-wall proposition but...
Could this potential move by A&M also affect TCU's decision to move to the Big East? Considering their recent success on the gridiron, they could be a logical replacement for A&M in the Big 12 or partner with the Aggies in moving to the SEC. Either of those moves would be infinitely better for TCU in so many ways.

In order for something like this to happen, the chips would have to fall almost immediately.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Realignment - Texas A&M Style

By David Sandhop, the Aggie Scout Publisher -- Published Friday, July 22, 2011

Latest from A&M's side of things... The Due Dilligence package is complete on both the SEC side of things and on A&M's side. All that is left is announcing. I would expect them to do that after the Football season.

Realignment - An Overview




Well, it’s been an eventful two weeks. Actually, this all started 13-14 months ago with the well-publicized conference shuffle that saw Texas A&M nix the Texas-brokered Pac-16 deal, Colorado and Nebraska heading out of the Big 12, and the Aggies flirting with the SEC before agreeing to the promises of Dan Beebe and the new Big 12-2.




At the time, there was public information that the Longhorn Network (LHN) was certainly in the works and that Texas officials and ESPN were in negotiations. That came to fruition in January 2011, and at the time there was talk of broadcasting high school events. At the time, there was no outcry or inquiries to the NCAA about the feasibility of a university network featuring programming with prospective recruits.




So, why is there such outrage and resistance now just a month away from the premiere of the LHN? Why is the Texas A&M Administration now concerned about the network and publicly showing “concern” and describing the current status of the Big 12 as “uncertain”? Well, those reasons have become clear after yesterday’s regents meeting, contrary to the public statements made by A&M officials.

1) The Influence of ESPN

While the issue of high school programming within the LHN has garnered the most attention and outrage in the media, the shot across the bow that quickly got the attention of Texas A&M and the rest of the Big 12 was the deal ESPN brokered with Fox Sports to buy a Texas game from the conference tier two rights package to place on the LHN. That move clearly signaled that ESPN has growing concerns about the short term success of the network where they have sole business risk to the tune of $300 million in rights fees to Texas along with the upfront investment in a state of the art broadcast headquarters facility in Austin. According to LHN director Dave Brown, ESPN has recruited top talent from Bristol to establish the broadcasting infrastructure in Austin. Initially, Brown indicated a minimum of 60 ESPN employees were relocating to Texas and that at some point the plan is to have well over 100 employees working the LHN. That’s a significant investment for the network, both in dollars and in expertise and manpower. So $300 million is just one component of the investment ESPN has made in the LHN.

So when the network ran into roadblocks regarding distribution on the two major satellite players and other cable systems were hesitant to add the LHN, ESPN felt they needed to go out and sweeten the pot in terms of programming, and that’s why they paid a hefty sum to money whip Fox Sports into selling a conference game. According to Brown, the network was also trying to pursue a more aggressive approach to high school programming and was looking into broadcasting Big 12 Conference championships and tournaments events not currently covered by existing broadcast partners. For example, Brown mentioned broadcasting Big 12 Baseball Conference Tournament games (Fox only broadcasts the championship game) and other sports championships. He also discussed broadcasting Longhorn road games and having a broader conference reach in programming. Hmm, sounds like the making of a Big 12 Network with a Longhorn logo.

Clearly, that tells you where ESPN wants to take this network, because a one-team network that sounded great on a business plan doesn’t appear to be delivering on subscriptions and distribution at the moment. And it’s ESPN on the string here, not the University of Texas. They will cash their $15 million check every year regardless of what happens to the network. So ESPN tried to sweeten the pot, and they will continue to look for ways to broaden the national appeal of Texas so they can get more than just Longhorn fans in the Lone Star state to sign up for THEIR network. The first step was buying the conference game from Fox Sports. If ESPN is willing to do that, then what else will they do to ensure that the Longhorns are a vibrant college sports brand that will sell subscriptions?

How about set-up its preseason two hour special edition of the popular College Game Day on the University of Texas campus with plenty of inside features and goodies about the Longhorn nation sure to get the national audience well-versed in everything Bevo? CHECK.

How about establishing a comprehensive LHN advertising campaign on the parent ESPN channels? With Texas baseball in the College World Series, how about a media blitz during the ESPN broadcasts of those games? CHECK.

What’s next? Will ESPN use its first choice of Big 12 games in October to select as its national game the unranked Texas Tech v. Texas contest over the Top 10 matchup between Texas A&M and OU so they can market the LHN nationally? It certainly leaves a lot of gray area and a possible conflict of interest.

So basically, with half a billion dollars invested by ESPN in this business venture, does the University of Texas become too big to fail? That’s what Texas A&M officials are now wondering after the “leader in sports” went out and purchased a conference game from their own pockets without informing Big 12 officials. So, it was this transaction that first raised the red flag in College Station and started the Aggies down this path of looking at their options and questioning the current conference structure. The high school games issue was simply icing on the cake.


2) Texas A&M Now has Consensus Moving Forward

When the winds of change blew last spring and the talk of realignment heated up, the Texas A& administration was quite shocked at the size and level of intensity from the fan base to jump ship to the SEC. However, it wasn’t a consensus. The older segment of the fan base was content with the status quo and staying close to Texas, while the younger market of Aggies who grew up in the Jackie Sherrill and R.C. Slocum era were pushing for life in the powerful SEC. Internally, there were decision-makers in favor of pursuing membership in the SEC, but athletic director Bill Byrne and those associated with the athletic department were not ready to move forward with a move eastward into a more difficult football conference.

Part of that concern revolved around the fact that Texas A&M simply wasn’t prepared for the events of last year. There had been insufficient financial analysis of such a move. There was insufficient analysis of the impact on the individual sports, and there was insufficient research into the detailed policies and legal ramifications of taking such a significant move in joining the SEC. Finally, there was the uncertainty of political issues and the financial penalties attached to leaving the Big 12.

In short, Texas A&M wasn’t prepared for such an important transaction and I think the Texas A&M fan base under-estimated this aspect of a move.

I wanted to give a brief history lesson because it gives the context of yesterday’s Board of Regents (BOR) Meeting. This was not a meeting to vote on whether to leave for the SEC. Actually, that vote doesn’t have to take place. Earlier this year, the BOR formally gave university president Bowen Loftin the full authority to enter into binding contractual agreements regarding conferences and athletic affiliations. So this meeting was really to inform the BOR of the current situation with the Big 12 and also to let them know that due diligence is taking place in case the university needs to make a quick move to the SEC or take any other type of action.

From my understanding, there was no debate or difference of opinion from any of the key decision-makers from Bill Byrne and the athletic department to the Twelfth Man Foundation to the President Loftin and the administration. The university wants to move forward with its due diligence and IF the situation in the Big 12 with Texas and ESPN remains unsatisfactory, then the background analysis will be complete and a plan of action is clear and it will be swift.

According to sources familiar with the meeting, the BOR unanimously supported the due diligence initiated by Texas A&M university administrators and supported a plan of action based on the findings of the due diligence and the future actions of the Big 12 Conference.

In layman’s terms, Texas A&M is currently not happy with the existing structure of the conference, especially as it pertains to the LHN. That has triggered ongoing due diligence on the part of Texas A&M with regard to a potential move to the SEC. If Texas and ESPN continue on the path that is detrimental to the long-term success of Texas A&M athletics, and the university is satisfied with its analysis of the SEC, then a move is likely. According to my sources, the conditions of what was acceptable and what was not acceptable in terms of the LHN and the Big 12 were discussed and agreed upon by the administrators.

Thus, I was told that Texas A&M has a clear path forward and that certain criteria are in place that triggers action by the university administrators. Texas A&M will give the Big 12 and Texas an opportunity to “walk it back” in terms of the LHN, but consensus from the meeting is that they believe the odds of that happening are small.

As I was told by a source yesterday, “Last year was all about emotion and the university wasn’t prepared to do anything. This year, it’s about business and the university is unified in moving forward with what’s best for Texas A&M.”

(Continued)

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

More Proof That There is Work Behind the Scenes

I spoke to several sources with close contacts to the SEC and its partners. They have indicated that meetings have taken place between Texas A&M representation, SEC representation, and even a TV sports network's representation to go over the policy details and contractual details of the SEC Conference. Basically, Texas A&M has asked for legal clarification on a number of topics and issues, and the team is collecting operational data and other information pertinent in supporting such a due diligence activity. It’s not to a point where A&M is negotiating terms, but simply collecting information and understanding the details of the SEC Conference and how it operates among the member institutions. In short, A&M doesn’t want to get caught with its pants down again and will have all the necessary information and analysis to make a quick decision if needed.




This activity in no way signals that a move is a done deal, but there is a feeling that this option is becoming an increasing possibility as these issues with ESPN and the LHN pose an unfair advantage for the Longhorns that will compromise the future viability and competitiveness of the Big 12.








So What Will Happen?




I’m not sure what will happen. Despite what A&M fans think, the entity that now drives this situation is actually ESPN. They have the money invested. They are the ones absorbing the business risk with hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. It’s not Texas. Texas is sitting pretty with a guaranteed $15 million a year coming their way for the next 20 years. Don’t get me wrong, Texas has a lot at stake in this game, but the Longhorns have surprisingly little leverage in what happens next. The ball is in ESPN’s court. With Dan Beebe desperately trying to keep the league together and announcing a moratorium on high school games and a conference game on the LHN, he just severely handicapped ESPN’s ability to sell this network to the satellites and cable systems across the region and nation. Think about it. If ESPN was happy with the distribution and early sales of the LHN, we wouldn’t be here talking about the problem of high school games and conference games. If ESPN could’ve met their distribution and subscription goals under the original agreement of showing one live non-conference games and a lot of volleyball, soccer, and swimming, everybody would be happy right now.




But seven months ago when Texas and ESPN were shaking hands and announcing this ground breaking new deal, nobody thought the network would fail miserably. Well, it’s too early to say it’s failed, but given the actions of ESPN willing to throw big money at Fox Sports to buy a tier two football game and discussing the possibility of broadcasting Big 12 Conference championship events and conference road games, it tells you the boys in Bristol are a little nervous about their investment. If you look back at the concept, ESPN was banking on getting a national audience for lower tier live events, practices, non-revenue sports, and a daily news show dedicated to one team. Who in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles is going to watch that programming. Better yet, who in the nation (even in Texas) will pay $10/month to watch 24/7 non-stop Texas sports? Well, I’d say about the 15,000-20,000 hardcore Texas sports fans that subscribe to Internet services. The casual Texas fan, much less the casual national college football fan, will not be interested in this premium service.




And that ultimately is the problem for ESPN and Texas. It’s a problem for ESPN because they have the money at risk and stand to lose a lot of it. For Texas, they have to worry about what ESPN will do now that they are sitting on a network with limited programming that is being held back by the Big 12 and the rest of college football that’s not quite ready to accept this business model. Will ESPN push to broaden programming by making this the Big 12 Network, forcing Texas to compromise and give up money? That doesn’t seem likely. Will ESPN broker some compromise with the Big 12 and its members by throwing a few dollars at schools in exchange for greater access to these tier three rights and even with some tier two rights with more purchases from Fox Sports.




I don’t know. I’m not smart enough to know the different options at ESPN’s disposal. But I do know that they will have to get creative with all parties involved – Texas, Fox Sports, Big 12, Big 12 member institutions to broker some type of deal to sweeten the broadcasting pot that will entice Dish, DirecTV, and the cable systems around the country. It will be difficult, and even then the cost of doing these compromise deals will offset the gain. But even if ESPN can get a deal brokered with the Big 12, how will Texas react to such a proposal. This would put them back to square one and once again an equal to the other conference members. You would have to believe that’s not a scenario that Texas will accept, but then what is the solution where the Big 12 Conference, Texas, ESPN, and Texas A&M will be happy with…I simply don’t see one. That’s why I think it’s inevitable that Texas A&M moves to the SEC and Texas either brings in a replacement (like TCU) or simply says it’s time to go independent. ESPN would be happy with that option. It gives them more power and flexibility in generating revenue for the LHN and they can offset any losses by broadcasting some premiere Longhorn games on the big channel.

But that’s the ultimate in uncertainty, and that’s a word Texas A&M officials used quite a bit yesterday. That last paragraph was confusing because this situation has no clear resolution at the moment, primarily because we don’t know how ESPN will react and we don’t know how the other players will react to ESPN’s strategy moving forward.




But that’s the beauty of what came out of yesterday’s BOR meeting. Texas A&M controls its own destiny as long as the SEC offer is valid (and we’re told by SEC sources that Texas A&M is of the highest priority to the SEC in terms of expansion and that an offer will always be on the table). It’s quite simple now. After all the horse trading and compromises by all parties involved, Texas A&M will look at the landscape and if Texas still has an unfair advantage, the university goes to the SEC in June 2013. If Texas backs down and the Longhorn Network morphs into a Big 12 Network, then A&M got what it wanted….competing in a conference with a level playing field. At the moment, that conference appears to be the SEC, but Texas A&M has the luxury of sitting back and watching the other players in this poker game sweat. Trust me, with the current sales of the LHN and a nervous ESPN staring at a red balance sheet, Texas is sweating.


-- David Sandhop, TAMU (Scout)

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?p=27285172&pg=3

[jdm2000]

Fascinating.

[xudash]

Fascinating.

Seriously.

JTT37, very well done. Thanks for all that.

[Masterofreality]

Good. Freaking ESPN needs to be brought down a peg or two.

[STL_XUfan]

Good. Freaking ESPN needs to be brought down a peg or two.

At what point can they no longer hide behind journalistic integrity? Then again does anyone really care. Anyone that has a basic understanding of the media can put the pieces together and see the bias. But at what point is it just unethical to change your reporting to further the companies private economic interest while still trying to hold out your reporters as legitimate source of sporting news. Or does the fact that sports are entertainment just excuse all journalistic integrity.

[SM#24]

Interesting because doesn't ESPN also partner/own the SEC Network ?

[dc_x]

At what point can they no longer hide behind journalistic integrity? Then again does anyone really care. Anyone that has a basic understanding of the media can put the pieces together and see the bias. But at what point is it just unethical to change your reporting to further the companies private economic interest while still trying to hold out your reporters as legitimate source of sporting news. Or does the fact that sports are entertainment just excuse all journalistic integrity.

If you owned Disney stock wouldn't you expect ESPN to do everything in its power to protect its investment in LHN?

I think you can ask this question about a lot of media companies. ESPN is owned by Disney and ultimately reports to Disney's shareholders who expect the business to be run in such a way that they increase the value of the stock.

Fox News (News Corp) and MSNBC (GE) are both blatantly biased in their news coverage because they have found that it's good business. Both of those networks are killing CNN in ratings.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

More rumors:

Pac 12 looking at Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

SEC looking at Texas AM and Missouri

Big East looking at Kansas and Kansas State

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2011/7/31/2306851/pac-12-expansion-rumors-texas-tech-red-raiders-oklahoma-sooners-ok-state-cowboys-big-12

" Apparently, Oklahoma was told by several SEC sources that a future deal including Oklahoma State was highly unlikely...that they would need to split if they wanted to be seriously considered for inclusion. That explains recent rumors that OU has been inquiring about the PAC-12’s interest level in expanding the conference with both Oklahoma schools. If that doesn’t pan out, then the Sooners may come back to the SEC and consider working the politics of splitting with OSU.

...

Texas Tech is also putting out feelers with the PAC-12 and Kansas has been in contact with the Big East for quite some time and there’s talk that Kansas State could also be in the discussions. And of course, that would leave Texas free to pursue independence and cement its partnership with ESPN with a more comprehensive TV contract."

[STL_XUfan]

More rumors:



SEC looking at Texas AM and Missouri





Don't let the Mizzou administration or Governor find out. They will figure out a way to screw it all up.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

David Sandhop
Aggie Websider Publisher
July 30, 2011

Rumors continue to surface about Texas A&M and other Big 12 schools looking at other conference options as ESPN and Texas move forward with plans to broadcast high school games on the Longhorn Network. Aggie Websider's David Sandhop gives you the latest including details that this issue could come to a head quickly.

The realignment rumors at Texas A&M just won’t die. After resting in dormancy for over a year, the “Texas A&M to the SEC” rumors were resurrected once again earlier this month when ESPN purchased a Big 12 tier two game from Fox Sports for its fledgling and flailing Longhorn Network (LHN) and decided to expand its programming by broadcasting high school games that feature Longhorn signees, commits, and targets.

Texas A&M and other conference members took exception and took to the air waves to voice concern over the recent moves by ESPN to expand programming at the Austin-based network. Even Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe, who has become adept at putting Humpty-Dumpty (Big 12) back together again and again, stepped up and put a moratorium on the network to prevent ESPN from moving forward with plans to show high school games and a TBA conference game. He hoped the edict would stop ESPN in its tracks and placate agitated conference members Texas A&M and Oklahoma that felt the LHN was expanding into programming areas that violated the spirit of the conference agreement cobbled together hastily last year in the face of realignment rumors that threatened to destroy the conference.

Since that pronouncement by Beebe, the big issue really focuses on the response of ESPN which is the entity absorbing the financial and business risk for the LHN. After all, how can the Big 12 or any conference dictate to ESPN the games they can or can’t televise that were purchased and the rights secured? Well, based on recent moves by the sports leader, ESPN doesn’t believe the Big 12 can interfere in their programming choices and the ability to make a profit. After the Beebe announcement, ESPN and the LHN finalized contracts with Brenham High School and Lamar Consolidated to become the first high school football broadcast on the network. The Longhorns currently have two verbal commitments from that Brenham team, linebacker Tim Cole and highly-regarded defensive lineman Malcolme Brown.

Pearland Dawson officials indicated last week that the LHN has contacted the school inquiring about the possibility of airing one of their games this fall. The school is home to highly-rated offensive lineman Kennedy Estelle who happens to also be a Texas verbal commitment. There have been others similar reports of ESPN contacting high schools across the state about broadcasting games – this coming after the Beebe proclamation and the public statements of concern from Texas A&M athletic director Bill Byrne and other Big 12 member schools.

Now, the NCAA is looking into the issue of broadcasting high school games on proprietary conference-specific and university-specific networks. This is an area without precedent, so the NCAA plans to collect information over the next three weeks and hopefully will provide a clear ruling at a scheduled August 22 meeting just prior to the season.

But given information we’re hearing from several Big 12 institutions that may be too late to save the Big 12. The fate of the conference (barely one month old) could hang in the balance at a critical Big 12 athletic directors meeting that is currently scheduled for Monday. The issue continues to be Texas and its broadcast partner ESPN.

Whether the NCAA decides to eliminate high school broadcasts on team-specific networks is really moot at this point. ESPN basically showed its poker hand to the Big 12 through its actions last week. They will not respect the authority of the Big 12 Commissioner. They will not respect the concerns of Big 12 Conference members. Thus, member institutions now realize what some of us have been saying for weeks. It is counter-intuitive to the health and goodwill of an athletic conference to have one member exclusively partnered with a for-profit multi-billion dollar sports broadcaster with a financial stake in that partner’s overall success.

To be clear here, I don’t fault ESPN in this situation. Why should the sports conglomerate care what Dan Beebe or the Big 12 thinks when it comes to their investment in the LHN. As with any private business, ESPN is here to invest in business ventures and use its expertise in making a healthy profit from those ventures. A business’ first priority is to meet the financial goals of its management and stakeholders.

But therein lies the problem for Big 12 member institutions. When you have one member in bed with a multi-billion dollar partner that happens to have a tremendous influence over not only the finances of the sport in the form of TV revenues in the billions, but also in the narrative of that sport by determining which universities get national exposure every week, it’s an imperfect situation for member schools. And if you are universities like Texas A&M and Oklahoma that command value in the college sports marketplace, you have options. In fact, you have very attractive options in other conferences that provide a fair and equitable conference affiliation without having to worry about what ESPN will do next.

And that’s the issue that particularly Texas A&M has with the current Big 12 mess. Even if the high school game controversy gets resolved next month, there will be another problem that is created through ESPN’s efforts to make the LHN profitable. Why? Because for the LHN to be profitable, the network must appeal to a wider audience, not just the 50,000 hardcore Longhorn fans that will snuggle up to the TV with a bag of popcorn to enjoy the day’s volleyball practice or an inside feature on the daily routine of the football equipment manager. ESPN has realized that the network must appeal to those outside the hardcore Longhorn base. That’s why the network has taken steps to broaden programming to show high school games. Also, network officials have discussed broadcasting Big 12 Championship events and even road games in various sports to sweeten the broadcasting pot.

But broadening the customer base and building a national brand is in direct conflict to a conference affiliation and the other members of the conference. While Texas A&M, OU, OSU, Baylor, ISU, KSU, Missouri, Texas Tech, and Kansas are working toward building the brand of the Big 12, Texas and ESPN are off building the Longhorn brand. So there will always be some problematic issue or concern that divides the two parties.

And that’s why rumors are surfacing that Texas A&M along with OU, OSU, Missouri, Kansas and others are working behind the scenes to evaluate conference options and future moves. Based on what we’re hearing, Texas A&M and others could be ready to play their hand if the athletic directors meeting doesn’t provide the right answers.

(Continued)

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Big 12 Schools Jockeying For Position

According to inside sources, Texas A&M administrators believe at this time that ESPN is unlikely to compromise on the high school games and they are moving forward with an aggressive approach to programming meaning they are in no mood to compromise.

If ESPN/Texas does not back down at the upcoming athletic directors meeting, this could be the tipping point. From a Texas A&M standpoint, that would likely be a move to the SEC – something that has been rumored since last year and is supported by recent actions of due diligence by the university. It sounds like the rest of the Big 12 is getting nervous as well and starting to check out conference options.

Several sources inside Texas A&M suggest a move could happen sooner rather than later if current conference conditions remain the same, which frankly surprises me if true. I was told it could be "weeks" versus "next year" in terms of a final decision to accept a standing offer to join the SEC. That would likely mean a move to the SEC for the 2013 athletic season.

The smoke with Missouri is building according to SEC sources. After getting snubbed by the Big 10 last year, Missouri is posturing for an offer to the SEC and working the phones hard. It might just pay off for Missouri. Apparently, Oklahoma was told by several SEC sources that a future deal including Oklahoma State was highly unlikely...that they would need to split if they wanted to be seriously considered for inclusion. That explains recent rumors that OU has been inquiring about the PAC-12’s interest level in expanding the conference with both Oklahoma schools. If that doesn’t pan out, then the Sooners may come back to the SEC and consider working the politics of splitting with OSU. But, Missouri is ready to go now and if the chips start falling pretty soon, it looks like Missouri could be in line to get that western division SEC spot along with the Aggies.

What is also helping out Missouri's cause right now is that Arkansas is pushing the SEC to take both Missouri and A&M as a package. For the Razorbacks, that would be a great addition with the proximity of both schools and the built-in rivalries along with the enhanced recruiting possibilities in Texas and Missouri.

Texas Tech is also putting out feelers with the PAC-12 and Kansas has been in contact with the Big East for quite some time and there’s talk that Kansas State could also be in the discussions. And of course, that would leave Texas free to pursue independence and cement its partnership with ESPN with a more comprehensive TV contract. Unless the PAC-12, Big 10, or SEC reverses its stance on not wanting a new partner with an exclusive network, the Longhorns must go independent. That appears to be the end game for Texas anyway.

This is an extremely fluid situation and nothing will surprise me in the short term. But if Byrne and Texas A&M walk away from the conference AD's meeting unsatisfied and it appears that ESPN and Texas are going to move forward with disputed programming regardless of the Big 12's concern, then this could go down quickly...and if so, it appears that Missouri could be the big winner in all of this chess play.

If the meetings go well and Texas A&M gets assurances of significant changes to the issues surrounding the LHN, then this situation will play out much longer as we originally anticipated. However, this won’t be the end of the saber rattling because the Big 12 is an imperfect and inequitable union. Another problem associated with inequity will pop-up and at some point this hastily-crafted conference will finally collapse. It’s inevitable. The question is whether that collapse will occur in weeks, months, or a year. ESPN’s profit motive will see to that. Big 12 schools are preparing for that

http://tamu.scout.com/2/1090643.html

[X-band '01]

It's interesting that Kansas/KSU would consider the Big East but they're not mentioned in SEC talks.

At least they're both viable expansion candidates in this round of negotiations; we saw how little pull college BB had in these discussions last year when both Kansas/KSU were an afterthought when the Big 10 was mulling their expansion options.

I'll ask SEC fans (cough)xu95 and Glow(cough) who their favorite candidates would be. Besides possibly A&M and Missouri, do you also consider a couple of ACC teams as well?

[xudash]

I heard that there are double secret conversations going on between the SEC, PAC-Whatever and the dying Big XII, concerning holding off from any moves until they figure how LaSalle and Fordham will play into all this.

I heard that during a comical delusional dream last night.

Seriously, I wonder what Texas was thinking. All indications are that they could care less. Texas is essentially a nation in size and Gross State Product. They were going to push for whatever they wanted, without giving one damn about a conference affiliation.

Roll the dice, already knowing that you've won what you wanted - $300 million for 20 years from ESPN - and see how far and for how long everyone else will bend over. It's look like they bent over too far such that it will not be for too long.

[xu95]

I am fine with A&M and Missou. I think the SEC will also look east at Clemson. If they take one they are taking four. Anything less than 16 teams won't make sense.

Neither Kansas or Kansas St make sense and won't happen. The 16th team would probably be Oklahoma or someone else from the ACC.

You will then see the Big 10 and the ACC pillage the BE for the rest of their teams. Welcome back to CUSA UC.

xu95

[paulxu]

I think the SEC will also look east at Clemson.

Bring it on!

I don't understand the Texas stuff. But then, I never understood why ND didn't go to the Big 10. Guess I like some sort of geographical sense to a league, but that seems to have gone by the wayside; and maybe it should with jet travel. But how Miami and BC can be interested in the each other escapes me.

For the SEC, in the dream world it would have all the big schools in its states. It does for some now, and some states only have one big school.

Mississippi 2
Alabama 2
Tennessee 2
LSU, Arkansas,
South Carolina...add Clemson
Kentucky...add Louisville
Georgia...add Tech
Florida...add Florida State

That would be a fun 16 team SEC!

[xudash]

http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/big_east_roulette_CWbgW0JtI8LKJ1SzIRr2uO

[rhyno2110]

http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/big_east_roulette_CWbgW0JtI8LKJ1SzIRr2uO

please not ESPN again! I couldn't stand another however many years listening to ESPN drool over the Big Least everday. I'm kind of hoping it ends up being NBC/Comcast, but I don't see it happening. It would be good to add another network into the competition

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So the chain of events would be something like this:

Texas AM and Missouri to SEC

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and probably 1 other team to Pac 12

Kansas and Kansas State to Big East


Hopefully causing the Big East to split between bball and football school teams OR just have them kick out all the non football teams.

Then Here's my hope(although its probably a long shot)

X jumps in with UD, Butler, GTown, Nova, Depaul, St Johns, Seton Hall, Marquette, ND

[xudash]

So the chain of events would be something like this:

Texas AM and Missouri to SEC

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and probably 1 other team to Pac 12

Kansas and Kansas State to Big East


Hopefully causing the Big East to split between bball and football school teams OR just have them kick out all the non football teams.

Then Here's my hope(although its probably a long shot)

X jumps in with UD, Butler, GTown, Nova, Depaul, St Johns, Seton Hall, Marquette, ND

Georgetown and Nova people are hoping that the BE will still keep 4 hoops schools - them and say St. Johns say ND. I don't see that happening, especially if Kansas brings its hoops program to the league.

This is going to get very interesting again.

[SixFig]

So the chain of events would be something like this:

Texas AM and Missouri to SEC

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and probably 1 other team to Pac 12

Kansas and Kansas State to Big East



If that happens look for the big football schools to form their own version of the NCAA and leave the rest behind.

It's gonna happen sooner or later.

[xubrew]

If that happens look for the big football schools to form their own version of the NCAA and leave the rest behind.

It's gonna happen sooner or later.

I think the talk now is looking at a third subdivision rather than leaving the NCAA entirely.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Georgetown and Nova people are hoping that the BE will still keep 4 hoops schools - them and say St. Johns say ND. I don't see that happening, especially if Kansas brings its hoops program to the league.

This is going to get very interesting again.

Ya its more of wishful thinking for me...

I'm just hoping for the ripple effect to somehow include X moving up in league competition

If/when Big East adds Kansas and Kansas State, that would make 19 teams:

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Depaul
Georgetown
Louisville
Kansas
Kansas State
Marquette
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Providence
Rutgers
Seton Hall
St Johns
Syracuse
TCU
USF
Villanova
West Virginia

They'd probably look at UCF or another team to make it 20 - which is just absurd. They'd have to either A) split up or B) kick out non football teams

[dc_x]

They'd probably look at UCF or another team to make it 20 - which is just absurd. They'd have to either A) split up or B) kick out non football teams

Why?

I don't understand what is wrong with a 20 team league. And why would Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, etc. want to kick out GTown, Nova, Marquette, St Johns and the DC, Philly, Milwaukee, and NY media markets?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Why?

I don't understand what is wrong with a 20 team league. And why would Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, etc. want to kick out GTown, Nova, Marquette, St Johns and the DC, Philly, Milwaukee, and NY media markets?

That post article someone posted said they will could look to kick out Marquette, Depaul(because it doesn't have much command of Chicago market), and others.

A 20 team league seems almost too big for Bball don't you think? The football side of the Big East is fine but 20 teams for a basketball league would seem to present some major problems with scheduling

[muskiefan82]

That post article someone posted said they will could look to kick out Marquette, Depaul(because it doesn't have much command of Chicago market), and others.

A 20 team league seems almost too big for Bball don't you think? The football side of the Big East is fine but 20 teams for a basketball league would seem to present some major problems with scheduling

Actually 20 is probably easier than 16. You just play 19 games against the BE teams and alternate the home game each year. This still gives a team 11 non-conference games to schedule and since it's the Big East, 10 of those will be home games.

[xudash]

Why?

I don't understand what is wrong with a 20 team league. And why would Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, etc. want to kick out GTown, Nova, Marquette, St Johns and the DC, Philly, Milwaukee, and NY media markets?

Determining whether it is wrong or not will be a function of the dollars available for distribution under each scenario: this is about money. If it makes financial sense to go to 20, they may consider going to 20. That seems doubtful on the surface, given, as an example, the incremental amount of cash a Seton Hall will add to the mix. They won't be able to put enough in the numerator to justify inclusion in the denominator (sharing members).

I also have to imagine there is a strong bias among the football schools to get to an all-sports conference format. The other BCS conferences are all-sports. The only reason the BE remains a hybrid now is because the basketball revenue side of the equation is a solid and needed contributor to the overall mix. IF the football number drives upward to a point where the basketball number becomes an after thought, a split probably follows.

Imagine you are preparing to add the University of Kansas to your league. They have a pretty good hoops program. K-State would come along for the ride as well. Why have 4 tag-a-long hoops schools, once of which would be ND who continues to want its cake, the mixing bowl, the icing, and all the table settings to eat the cake alone.

You end up with:

Pitt
WVA
Syracuse
Rutgers
UConn
Lville
UC
USF
Kansas
K-State

You still have Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn in proximity to Manhattan. The other teams' fans would travel based on the destination. The only fan base you would really be hurting for with respect to a Manhattan-based conference tournament is St. Johns' fan base. As far as that is concerned, the BE name wouldn't remain with this mix of schools anyway, they're free to take their tournament to anywhere that makes sense.

[dc_x]

Determining whether it is wrong or not will be a function of the dollars available for distribution under each scenario: this is about money. If it makes financial sense to go to 20, they may consider going to 20.

Absolutely agree.

Today the football money is shared only by the football playing schools. The basketball pie is separate. So really the question is whether the basketball-only schools carry their own weight in adding to that pie. Obviously, we don't know the answer to that, but my guess is that they would.

I just don't think they would be better off financially by dropping Notre Dame, Gtown, Nova, Marquette and St Johns. Notre Dame is Notre Dame. GTown and Nova give you DC and Philly. Milwaukee is a smaller market, but isn't bad. You could argue that Rutgers covers NYC, but St. Johns adds to that presence.

I'm sure they would be fine dropping Seton Hall, Providence, and Depaul, but I don't think they would ever selectively kick out 3 members. It would need to be the 12 or 14 or whatver number of football schools voting to leave.

[_LH]

So the chain of events would be something like this:

Texas AM and Missouri to SEC

Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and probably 1 other team to Pac 12

Kansas and Kansas State to Big East

I would hope Kansas and KSU would look to remain with Texas, Baylor, Iowa St. and simply add in Colorado St., Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, UNLV, Boise St. and maybe Tulane and keep the Big XII alive.

I would hate to see Kansas go to the BE. TCU if they had not already made the commitment to the BE would have been a great 12th team instead of Tulane. I think their move was premature.

[_LH]

I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I'm certain it won't be this.

No, you can't be certain of that at all but thanks for replying. My scenario makes far more sense than Kansas to the BE.

Its basically the same thing the BE did when the ACC raided the BE.

[_LH]

Texas in a conferene with Tulane? Nice try.

Tulane is the only stretch but the others aren't. WVU is in a conference with S. Florida. What other conference would Texas go to? There would still be 5 members from the Big XII and they could add 5 more, just like the BE did when the ACC raided them to stay alive. Again, it makes more sense than Kansas to the BE.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I would hope Kansas and KSU would look to remain with Texas, Baylor, Iowa St. and simply add in Colorado St., Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, UNLV, Boise St. and maybe Tulane and keep the Big XII alive.

I would hate to see Kansas go to the BE. TCU if they had not already made the commitment to the BE would have been a great 12th team instead of Tulane. I think their move was premature.

I guess they could try to keep the Big 12 alive, but I can't imagine any school aside from Texas liking that Longhorn TV deal.

[xubrew]

No, you can't be certain of that at all but thanks for replying. My scenario makes far more sense than Kansas to the BE.

Its basically the same thing the BE did when the ACC raided the BE.

Not if the Longhorn Network becomes the network for the entire conference with Texas keeping all the revenue. That's basically why the other schools are looking to bolt. The Big East is a much better deal than remaining with Texas if that turns out to be the case.

I also think Houston is much more realistic than Tulane.

[_LH]

I guess they could try to keep the Big 12 alive, but I can't imagine any school aside from Texas liking that Longhorn TV deal.

They don't have to like it but they may not have many choices.

[_LH]

Not if the Longhorn Network becomes the network for the entire conference with Texas keeping all the revenue. That's basically why the other schools are looking to bolt. The Big East is a much better deal than remaining with Texas if that turns out to be the case.

I also think Houston is much more realistic than Tulane.

Not true.

Houston is fine. The 12th team is not as important as it is to realize it makes more sense to try to keep the Big XII alive with the 5 remaining and adding in MVC teams that teams from out west to join the BE.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wouldn't Texas be better off independent at this point?

[_LH]

Texas is not going to play in a league with a bunch of MWC and C-USA castoffs and left-behinds. This has been covered.

Why not?

WVU and Syracuse did basically the same thing.

[_LH]

Wouldn't Texas be better off independent at this point?

Where are they playing bball? Texas would make a pile of money either way in football and have a BCS bid to fall back on in a conference setting in off years. Ask ND if that matters.

[_LH]

You think Bill Self is going to agree to play in that shallow pool instead of joining up with UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, WV, Pitt, etc.?!? And take it in the ass (like a Mark McGwire steroid shot) from Texas for the pleasure of doing so?!?

Your dislike of me is clouding your view.

They would be playing with KSU, Texas and Baylor still for example. Why join a bloated BE when they can play in a more travel friendly conference and get #1 seeds. There is no upside to joining the BE, sorry.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Where are they playing bball? Texas would make a pile of money either way in football and have a BCS bid to fall back on in a conference setting in off years. Ask ND if that matters.

Oh I was just talking about Independent in football. That's where they make their big time revenue.

For Bball, I'm sure the pac 12 or someone would love to have them

[_LH]

Oh I was just talking about Independent in football. That's where they make their big time revenue.

For Bball, I'm sure the pac 12 or someone would love to have them

They could have gone idependent years ago. Being in a BCS conference with Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Boise St. etc allows them to get BCS bids in years where they would not as an independent.

[GoMuskies]

KSU and Baylor are horrible basketball programs who have had a few good years recently. Baylor seems destined for probation soon.

By your logic, Kentucky should join the OVC. Think of how travel friendly that would be with three in-state conference opponets. #1 seeds all day. And they could play all their games on the Murray State Network and give up all their TV revenue. Brilliant!

[_LH]

KSU and Baylor are horrible basketball programs who have had a few good years recently. Baylor seems destined for probation soon.

By your logic, Kentucky should join the OVC. Think of how travel friendly that would be with three in-state conference opponets. #1 seeds all day. And they could play all their games on the Murray State Network and give up all their TV revenue. Brilliant!

Now that you know you are beaten you are grasping and reaching all over the place. Nice try.

Football is the driver, not basketball. Kansas would be stupid to join a weak BE football conference over trying to salvage the B12 with Texas and the others. Sorry.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, Kansas should join a league with New Mexico and Tulane for football purposes. Spot on.

[_LH]

Yes, Kansas should join a league with New Mexico and Tulane for football purposes. Spot on.

They would not be joining anyone. They would be adding. Just like Syracuse and WVU did when they added weak S. Florida and UC. You're wrong here, move on!

[_LH]

I don't know if you are just acting thick or really believe this as your Kansas to the BE makes far less sense than Kansas sticking in the B12 with the other four teams not assumed to be leaving and adding 5-7 teams from the MVC, CUSA and maybe even TCU from the BE. Kansas to the BE is just foolish. Sorry.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Kansas to the BE is just foolish. Sorry.

How is Kansas to the BE 'foolish'? It makes sense on their end especially for Bball.

[_LH]

How is Kansas to the BE 'foolish'? It makes sense on their end especially for Bball.

I have explained why. Staying put with the other 4 and adding from the confernces I listed makes far more sense.

[_LH]

You're right, Kansas in a conference with Air Force (a short 24ish hour drive from Lawrence) makes far more sense than Kansas in a conference with Louisville.

Air Force over S. Florida makes perfect sense.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I have explained why. Staying put with the other 4 and adding from the confernces I listed makes far more sense.

But the key is which other four? Baylor? K State? Iowa State? and who else?

From their standpoint, I'm sure they'd much rather prefer going to Big East than staying with any combination of those three

[GoMuskies]

Air Force over S. Florida makes perfect sense.

Definitely. Turner Gill is licking his chops over that fertile Colorado Springs recruiting territory. NO WAY does he want to start getting his program exposure in South Florida. No decent recruits to be found there. I hear Wyoming is also a recruiting hotbed, what with its massive population and all.

[_LH]

But the key is which other four? Baylor? K State? Iowa State? and who else?

From their standpoint, I'm sure they'd much rather prefer going to Big East than staying with any combination of those three

Texas and let those 5 then decide. Either way it makes more sense than Kansas joining the BE even though gomuskies can't let it go.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Texas and let those 5 then decide. Either way it makes more sense than Kansas joining the BE even though gomuskies can't let it go.

You just have to be persistent with GoMuskies. He's stubborn, never admits he is wrong ever, uses cliche and elementary phrases to bait people into insulting him, and is always too quick to respond.

He's just a nuisance.

As for Texas, no one is going to want to be in a league with Texas and that Longhorn TV deal.

[_LH]

You just have to be persistent with GoMuskies. He's stubborn, never admits he is wrong ever, uses cliche and elementary phrases to bait people into insulting him, and is always too quick to respond.

He's a nuisance.

As for Texas, on one is going to want to be in a league with Texas and that Longhorn TV deal.

Those with little options. Kansas to the BE makes no sense.

[GoMuskies]

You just have to be persistent with GoMuskies. He's stubborn, never admits he is wrong ever, uses cliche and elementary phrases to bait people into insulting him, and is always too quick to respond.

Nice try, but I have to say sorry, you're wrong. All the reasons I am right have been covered.

[_LH]

Nice try, but I have to say sorry, you're wrong. All the reasons I am right have been covered.

Nope. You are wrong and way off base. Sorry.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Nope. You are wrong and way off base. Sorry.


Nice try, but I have to say sorry, you're wrong. All the reasons I am right have been covered.

It appears we are facing a stalemate

[_LH]

It appears we are facing a stalemate

True.

[xubrew]

I don't know if you are just acting thick or really believe this as your Kansas to the BE makes far less sense than Kansas sticking in the B12 with the other four teams not assumed to be leaving and adding 5-7 teams from the MVC, CUSA and maybe even TCU from the BE. Kansas to the BE is just foolish. Sorry.

_LH, do you understand the situation here??

Essentially, Texas looked to start their own network. ESPN purchased said network for $300 million before it even really existed. ESPN tried to sell it to providers (DirecTV, Dish, etc), and actually tried charging a premium rate for it and wanted it included with basic packages. Rather than pay a premium rate, the providers passed. As a result, in order to make it appealing to providers, ESPN is talking about making it a pseudo-Big Twelve Network rather than just the Longhorn Network, and air other Big Twelve games, even ones that do not involve Texas. Since the Big Twelve contract is with ESPN, and since ESPN owns the Longhorn Network, they have that right.

The rest of the league is pissed. Texas got $300 million. The rest of the league got none, yet their games are on that network, and Texas won't share the revenue. They've said as much.

You said football is what drives. It actually isn't, at least not directly. Revenue drives, and if the rest of the league is getting none of it, they're going to look to leave.

What sense does it make for Kansas to stay in a conference with Texas, when Texas gets $300 million, and they get nothing??

If the Kansas v Kansas State game is on the Longhorn Network, which is a believable scenario since ESPN will want providers in the state of Kansas to pay for the network, Texas will get the revenue. None of the $300 million will go to either Kansas or Kansas State.

Staying with Texas under those circumstances makes no sense. Joining the Big East may sound crazy, but it really isn't. Same with the Big Ten if they look to go out to fourteen or sixteen. Teams are not trying to stay affiliated with Texas. They're trying to get away from them, and it makes complete sense that they'd want to.

[_LH]

Staying with Texas under those circumstances makes no sense. Joining the Big East may sound crazy, but it really isn't. Same with the Big Ten if they look to go out to fourteen or sixteen. Teams are not trying to stay affiliated with Texas. They're trying to get away from them, and it makes complete sense that they'd want to.

Brew,

I understand it all.

It makes more sense to stay with Texas and try to salvage the Big XII than it does for Kansas to join the BE. Sorry.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Brew,

I understand it all.

It makes more sense to stay with Texas and try to salvage the Big XII than it does for Kansas to join the BE. Sorry.

Did you read only what you highlighted from XUBrew's post? He can't explain it any better why your position is wrong

[_LH]

Did you read only what you highlighted from XUBrew's post? He can't explain it any better why your position is wrong

I read it all and his long winded post is wrong. It makes more sense to stay with Texas and try to salvage the B12 than for Kansas to join the BE. Now if the SEC wants Kansas that's different but the BE is no SEC.

[GoMuskies]

Brevity, conclusory statements and a conference with Tulane knock 'Brew's arguments out of the water. Sorry 'brew.

[_LH]

Brevity, conclusory statements and a conference with Tulane knock 'Brew's arguments out of the water. Sorry 'brew.

More grasping from go.

[_LH]

Perfect try.

[xubrew]

Brevity, conclusory statements and a conference with Tulane knock 'Brew's arguments out of the water. Sorry 'brew.

The funny thing is that I'm not even making an argument. I'm explaining why so many teams, including Kansas, would want to leave the Big Twelve. Colorado and Nebraska already left. Texas A&M, who has a long tradition with Texas, has openly and emphatically stated that they want out.

My prediction is that if Texas doesn't end up sharing some of the revenue, this is the last year for the Big Twelve. It almost dissolved last year, and that was prior to the latest developments with the LHN.

[_LH]

Perfectly nice (but still wrong). Ha ha!

Not in the least but nice try.

[_LH]

The funny thing is that I'm not even making an argument. I'm explaining why so many teams, including Kansas, would want to leave the Big Twelve. Colorado and Nebraska already left. Texas A&M, who has a long tradition with Texas, has openly and emphatically stated that they want out.

My prediction is that if Texas doesn't end up sharing some of the revenue, this is the last year for the Big Twelve. It almost dissolved last year, and that was prior to the latest developments with the LHN.

Teams left that had viable options to leave. My point is the BE is not really a good option for Kansas and the better option right now is to stay with Texas and try to salvage the B12. Is it ideal for KU? No, but it is better than they ridiculous option of joining the BE.

Now if the SEC comes calling to KU, that's different but the BE is no SEC.

[xubrew]

So, you think Kansas would rather stay in the Big Twelve (or what's left of it) and get zero dollars from the TV deal than join the Big East and get an equal share of what should be a lucrative contract??

Interesting.

Personally, I think Kansas will see things differently. If Texas does not share the revenue, there won't be a Big Twelve left to salvage.

[_LH]

So, you think Kansas would rather stay in the Big Twelve (or what's left of it) and get zero dollars from the TV deal than join the Big East and get an equal share of what should be a lucrative contract??

Interesting.

Personally, I think Kansas will see things differently. If Texas does not share the revenue, there won't be a Big Twelve left to remain in.

I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE.

So Kansas would rather try to keep the Big 12 intact so that Texas can make all the money leaving Kansas with none rather than going to the Big East and sharing the revenue? Is that what you're saying?

[_LH]

So Kansas would rather try to keep the Big 12 intact so that Texas can make all the money leaving Kansas with none rather than going to the Big East and sharing the revenue? Is that what you're saying?

No.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

No.

It sounds to me exactly what you are saying. That Kansas should try and salvage the Big 12 where they stand to make zero revenue as opposed to going to the big east where they could share the revenue

[XUFan09]

I leave reading this thread this morning, only to come back for a number of entertaining pages!

[_LH]

It sounds to me exactly what you are saying. That Kansas should try and salvage the Big 12 where they stand to make zero revenue as opposed to going to the big east where they could share the revenue

I'm not saying that. What does "no" mean to you.

Try again!

[GoMuskies]

What does "no" mean to you.

No means yes. Yes means anal. I stand in solidarity with those poor misunderstood Yale frat pledges.

[_LH]

No means yes. Yes means anal. I stand in solidarity with those poor misunderstood Yale frat pledges.

You are clueless!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It sounds to me exactly what you are saying. That Kansas should try and salvage the Big 12 where they stand to make zero revenue as opposed to going to the big east where they could share the revenue


I'm not saying that. What does "no" mean to you.

Try again!


I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE.

Explanation?

[STL_XUfan]

Texas has turned into that guy that really wants to dump his girl friend but is too chicken to pull the trigger. So instead he just treats her like crap with the hope that eventually she will break up with him. However, they have discovered that their gf (the rest of the Big Xii) is so desperate that they will put up with all of his shit. Currently Texas is going to take advantage of the rest of the Big Xii until eventually they leave Texas opening the door for Texas to go independent. Any why shouldn't they? If the rest of the teams are just going to bend over and take it, texas is going to continue to benefit at their expense.

[xudash]

Texas has turned into that guy that really wants to dump his girl friend but is too chicken to pull the trigger. So instead he just treats her like crap with the hope that eventually she will break up with him. However, they have discovered that their gf (the rest of the Big Xii) is so desperate that they will put up with all of his shit. Currently Texas is going to take advantage of the rest of the Big Xii until eventually they leave Texas opening the door for Texas to go independent. Any why shouldn't they? If the rest of the teams are just going to bend over and take it, texas is going to continue to benefit at their expense.

BANG!!! That is what it is about.

[waggy]

I mean really, A&M keeps saying they are leaving. I'm leaving now.. Not joking... This is it... I'm really going this time...

Just go already ya friggin loon.

[waggy]

I should add that ultimately this all comes back to what ESPN is willing to pay, and where they are willing to pay it. Are they willing to increase the SEC's contract to cover A&M's (and any other teams) move there? Or are they more willing to increase the entire B12 package? Texas has a signed contract and guaranteed money (presumably). It's really on ESPN to figure this out. A&M may want to go to the SEC, but ESPN has to agree to the increase.

So IMO, if A&M really wants leverage they need to look west to PAC12/Fox.

[LA Muskie]

I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE.
That was the sentiment last year. Look where it got them (and A&M). I think the ship will soon have sailed on the Big XII. Texas' greed hath spilleth over.

[xubrew]

As I understand it, if the SEC format changes, then they have the right to renegotiate the deal. I haven't seen that in print, but that's what I've been told by someone that I think would know.

I think it falls on Texas. If they want to keep the league together, they'll have to share the money if Big Twelve events are going to be aired on the LHN. ESPN already dished out $300 million, and they already have the rights to the Big Twelve first and second tier. If Texas isn't willing to share, I just don't think it will make a difference what ESPN does.

TAMU threatened to leave once, and nearly did. It was only less than a year ago. It isn't as if they've been putting on this act for ten years and never left despite Texas balking. I honestly don't think they're joking. If they can find a place to go and Texas won't share the money, I think they are out of there.

[X-band '01]

Brevity, conclusory statements and a conference with Tulane knock 'Brew's arguments out of the water. Sorry 'brew.

ObamaHood is now on vacation and won't let me rep Go for this gem.

I now call on everyone else to do so in my stead.

[X-band '01]

As I understand it, if the SEC format changes, then they have the right to renegotiate the deal. I haven't seen that in print, but that's what I've been told by someone that I think would know.

I think it falls on Texas. If they want to keep the league together, they'll have to share the money if Big Twelve events are going to be aired on the LHN. ESPN already dished out $300 million, and they already have the rights to the Big Twelve first and second tier. If Texas isn't willing to share, I just don't think it will make a difference what ESPN does.

TAMU threatened to leave once, and nearly did. It was only less than a year ago. It isn't as if they've been putting on this act for ten years and never left despite Texas balking. I honestly don't think they're joking. If they can find a place to go and Texas won't share the money, I think they are out of there.

They would have left with Texas to the Pac-12 last year had Texas not gotten greedy and demanded more revenue at that point.

I look back at my initial posts in this thread and I had no idea just how far under ESPN got themselves into when they invested in the Longhorn/Big XII-II/whatever they want to call themselves Network. Even the Big 10 Network took a little time to wind up on most basic cable packages IN Big 10 Country.

We're getting closer and closer to a prior notion that there would be 4 16-team superconferences and a few independents for football.

[waggy]

As I understand it, if the SEC format changes, then they have the right to renegotiate the deal. I haven't seen that in print, but that's what I've been told by someone that I think would know.

I think it falls on Texas. If they want to keep the league together, they'll have to share the money if Big Twelve events are going to be aired on the LHN. ESPN already dished out $300 million, and they already have the rights to the Big Twelve first and second tier. If Texas isn't willing to share, I just don't think it will make a difference what ESPN does.

TAMU threatened to leave once, and nearly did. It was only less than a year ago. It isn't as if they've been putting on this act for ten years and never left despite Texas balking. I honestly don't think they're joking. If they can find a place to go and Texas won't share the money, I think they are out of there.

We'll see (and take whatever is finally officially reported with a huge grain of salt, and know it's on heavy duty spin cycle), but I'd be very surprised if Texas makes any significant concessions to keep the conference together.

As far as an SEC renegotiation goes, there probably is a good faith clause, but ESPN has a contract to air SEC games, but is not obligated to pay more just because the conference adds teams. The PAC12 first added teams, then negotiated...

[xubrew]

We'll see (and take whatever is finally officially reported with a huge grain of salt, and know it's on heavy duty spin cycle), but I'd be very surprised if Texas makes any significant concessions to keep the conference together.

As far as an SEC renegotiation goes, there probably is a good faith clause, but ESPN has a contract to air SEC games, but is not obligated to pay more just because the conference adds teams. The PAC12 first added teams, then negotiated...

To be more clear, my understanding is that the SEC can get out from under the deal if they expand, which would free them up to negotiate.

I agree with you about Texas. I don't see them making those sort of concessions.

I also agree that you have to take what's being reported with a huge grain of salt. It's impossible to predict who will go where, and for what reasons. My only point was that it makes complete sense that Kansas, and everyone else, would want to look elsewhere...including the Big East. It's not a ridiculous notion given the circumstance.

[waggy]

I think the PAC12 is going to come into play here. It hasn't hit the media yet, but it is being discussed on blogs. The guy running that conference has done a nice job, very nice.

[xubrew]

I think the PAC12 is going to come into play here. It hasn't hit the media yet, but it is being discussed on blogs. The guy running that conference has done a nice job, very nice.

...and Kevin Weiberg, the deputy commish, came from the Big Twelve.

[_LH]

Explanation?

What you said is not what I said. That's your explanation. Your attempt to add in more than what I wrote has failed. Sorry.

[_LH]

That was the sentiment last year. Look where it got them (and A&M). I think the ship will soon have sailed on the Big XII. Texas' greed hath spilleth over.

Possibly but Kansas will attempt to do whatever they can to make the B12 work before entertaining the ridiculous notion of joining the BE.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So, you think Kansas would rather stay in the Big Twelve (or what's left of it) and get zero dollars from the TV deal than join the Big East and get an equal share of what should be a lucrative contract??

Interesting.

Personally, I think Kansas will see things differently. If Texas does not share the revenue, there won't be a Big Twelve left to salvage.


I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE.


It sounds to me exactly what you are saying. That Kansas should try and salvage the Big 12 where they stand to make zero revenue as opposed to going to the big east where they could share the revenue


I'm not saying that. What does "no" mean to you.

Try again!

Explain this please

[_LH]

Explain this please

I already explained your failed attempt to add in more than what I actually wrote but nice try.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I already explained your failed attempt to add in more than what I actually wrote but nice try.

That is you verbatim i.e. UNEDITED i.e. WORD FOR WORD. Did you use white font?

[_LH]

That is you verbatim i.e. UNEDITED i.e. WORD FOR WORD. Did you use white font?

Look at it again. YOU added in things I DID NOT WRITE.

[xu95]

_LH, do you understand the situation here??



You really could have ended here. We all know the answer.

xu95

[_LH]

You really could have ended here. We all know the answer.

xu95

Its clear that I do but thanks for trolling by.

[GoMuskies]

I have to come to LH's defense here Jimmy. You are asking him to make logical arguments to support his position that are more than a few words long. That is completely unreasonable on your part.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Look at it again. YOU added in things I DID NOT WRITE.

I clicked multi-quote next to your statement and then quoted you verbatim

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19289&page=9

Scroll down to the bottom where you said "I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE."

Now, tell me, how that statement differs from the statement I included in the quote

[_LH]

I have to come to LH's defense here Jimmy. You are asking him to make logical arguments to support his position that are more than a few words long. That is completely unreasonable on your part.

Now that you have been shown to have a ridiculous stance on KU to the BE, the personal insults start. :rolleyes:

[xu95]

ObamaHood is now on vacation and won't let me rep Go for this gem.

I now call on everyone else to do so in my stead.

Don't worry. I took care of him for the anal thread.

Yes, I know how some of you will interpret that.

xu95

[_LH]

I clicked multi-quote next to your statement and then quoted you verbatim

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19289&page=9

Scroll down to the bottom where you said "I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE."

Now, tell me, how that statement differs from the statement I included in the quote

Look at the words you added about Kansas taking no money and the like. I never said any of that but nice try.

[xu95]

I clicked multi-quote next to your statement and then quoted you verbatim

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19289&page=9

Scroll down to the bottom where you said "I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE."

Now, tell me, how that statement differs from the statement I included in the quote

I know you are but what am I?

[GoMuskies]

True, you got me on Kansas wanting to be in a more travel friendly conference that stretches from New Orleans to Las Vegas to Laramie. If they could talk Hawaii into joining it would be perfect.

[_LH]

I know you are but what am I?

I know exactly what you are but the mods here don't like me to write in in this family forum.

[_LH]

True, you got me on Kansas wanting to be in a more travel friendly conference that stretches from New Orleans to Las Vegas to Laramie. If they could talk Hawaii into joining it would be perfect.

More grasping attempts. Just admit I owned you and move on.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

True, you got me on Kansas wanting to be in a more travel friendly conference that stretches from New Orleans to Las Vegas to Laramie. If they could talk Hawaii into joining it would be perfect.

Texas should join a football league with the Universities of Istanbul, New Delhi, Seoul, Tokyo, Manila, Sydney, Cairo, Mogadishu, Lagos, Johannesburg, Kiev, Rio De Janeiro, Buenos Aires, and Greenland

[_LH]

Texas should join a football league with the Universities of Istanbul, New Delhi, Seoul, Tokyo, Manila, Sydney, Cairo, Mogadishu, Lagos, Johannesburg, Kiev, Rio De Janeiro, Buenos Aires, and Greenland

Your above post is the best contribution you have ever made to this board.

[xu95]

I know exactly what you are but the mods here don't like me to write in in this family forum.

I'm on your side here and you are badmouthing me. I think GoMuskies is a toolbox.

xu95

[_LH]

I'm on your side here and you are badmouthing me. I think GoMuskies is a toolbox.

xu95

I didn't bad mouth you. The mods prefer that I don't.

[GoMuskies]

I think GoMuskies is a toolbox.


You just think it?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Didn't I just admit that it's obvious Kansas would rather face off on the regular with Tulane, Wyoming and UNLV than Louisville, West Virginia and Syracuse? I'm owned man. Clearly.

Don't feel bad. LH owned me too. His denial of what he said verbatim for all to see was flawlessly executed

[_LH]

Didn't I just admit that it's obvious Kansas would rather face off on the regular with Tulane, Wyoming and UNLV than Louisville, West Virginia and Syracuse? I'm owned man. Clearly.

You are beyond hope. :rolleyes:

[_LH]

Don't feel bad. LH owned me too. His denial of what he said verbatim for all to see was flawlessly executed

I showed where you tried to add words to what I wrote and failed but I do own you and always have.

[xubrew]

I showed where you tried to add words to what I wrote and failed but I do own you and always have.

I'm glad you cleared that up. Otherwise everyone would have thought that you were ignoring critical information...such as if Kansas stays in the Big Twelve, they will receive zero TV revenue from the LHN deal.

You think that rather than move to the Big East, Kansas will work to sustain the Big Twelve. By the way, said league would pay them no TV revenue.

Your position is clear.

[_LH]

I'm glad you cleared that up. Otherwise everyone would have thought that you were ignoring critical information...such as if Kansas stays in the Big Twelve, they will receive zero TV revenue from the LHN deal.

It did not need to be cleared up. Jimmy tried to add things to what I wrote that I did not have in there originally.

Kansas will try everything they can to stay in the B12 over going to the BE.

I also think KU will explore other options before entertaining the ridiculous notion of joining the BE and playing against the likes of South Florida, DePaul and Seton Hall.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It did not need to be cleared up. Jimmy tried to add things to what I wrote that I did not have in there originally.



Tell me what specifically I added to your quote I took verbatim...

ME: "I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE."

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19289&page=9

YOU: "I think Kansas will try to keep the B12 together over joining the BE."

[chico]

I think -=_LH would be the perfect commissioner for a conference where its members receive zero compensation.

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/thurm-300x245.png

[_LH]

Tell me what specifically I added to your quote I took verbatim...

Look it up. It had something to do with Kansas getting no money. I never suggested they would stay without compensation. YOU ignorantly added that part and asked me if that is what I meant and I answered "no". Case closed.

[_LH]

I think -=_LH would be the perfect commissioner for a conference where its members receive zero compensation.

Except I don't believe in that concept and never stated that I did. Nice try though.

[xudash]

LH,

The following are your early quotes on the subject from this thread:

"I would hope Kansas and KSU would look to remain with Texas, Baylor, Iowa St. and simply add in Colorado St., Wyoming, New Mexico, Air Force, UNLV, Boise St. and maybe Tulane and keep the Big XII alive.

I would hate to see Kansas go to the BE. TCU if they had not already made the commitment to the BE would have been a great 12th team instead of Tulane. I think their move was premature.

No, you can't be certain of that at all but thanks for replying. My scenario makes far more sense than Kansas to the BE.

Its basically the same thing the BE did when the ACC raided the BE.

The 12th team is not as important as it is to realize it makes more sense to try to keep the Big XII alive with the 5 remaining and adding in MVC teams that teams from out west to join the BE."


You are so focused on believing that the end goal must be to preserve the Big XII that you simply think it is a matter of plugging and playing new teams into empty slots, without clear regard to the market appeal and potential of the programs you consider to be valid replacements for a BCS caliber conference.

Have you seen the schedule that ranks programs by gross revenue generated? 3 programs achieve 9-digit status: Texas, Ohio State and Florida. Texas is taking unilateral action where schools such as A&M, Oklahoma and Mizzou are presently involved. You don't look like you're all with it if you believe Texas has even a drop of interest in teaming up with Wyoming or Tulane given that reality.

You also don't seem to grasp the reality that Kansas has been and is in contact with the BE, as it must be, given that it is aware of a scenario that involves the Big XII exploding by actions involving both the SEC and the Pac Ten. BTW, comparing what one weak conference (BE) did to shore itself up after a raid to what Texas and the Big XII should do is almost baffling. There is no equal footing in this deal, especially in a world where a program like Texas appears to be perfectly comfortable in going independent.

[xu95]

No response from LH. There must have been an "all hands" janitors meeting. Either that or the library has started limiting internet access to only an hour at a time.

xu95

[xu95]

Look it up. It had something to do with Kansas getting no money. I never suggested they would stay without compensation. YOU ignorantly added that part and asked me if that is what I meant and I answered "no". Case closed.

I can't believe Jimmy is such an idiot. You have completely cleared it up LH. Thank you. I can't believe all the posers on here doubted you.

It is very clear. Not only can Kansas singlehandedly keep the Big 12 together, they can strong arm ESPN and Texas into giving them some money.

xu95

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I can't believe Jimmy is such an idiot. You have completely cleared it up LH. Thank you. I can't believe all the posers on here doubted you.

It is very clear. Not only can Kansas singlehandedly keep the Big 12 together, they can strong arm ESPN and Texas into giving them some money.

xu95

You're right. I've been bested by the man they call Luteinizing Hormone again. His eloquent denial of his responses to his quotes taken in context and verbatim have bested me once again.

I've learned a lot today and I thank you LH. _LH has convinced me that money does not drive college sports conferences - especially football. I've learned that Texas A&M, Kansas, and the rest are thrilled with the option of making no revenue from the Longhorn network while it broadcasts their games. I've learned that Kansas has not been in talks with the Big East despite them saying on multiple occasions that they have been for years.

[xu95]

You're right. I've been bested by the man they call Luteinizing Hormone again. His eloquent denial of his responses to his quotes taken in context and verbatim have bested me once again.

I've learned a lot today. _LH has convinced me that money does not drive college sports conferences - especially football. I've learned that Texas A&M, Kansas, and the rest are thrilled with the option of making no revenue from the Longhorn network while they broadcast their games. I've learned that Kansas has not been in talks with the Big East despite them saying it on multiple occasions for years.

You are forgiven. Now don't let it happen again.

xu95

[GoMuskies]

My biggest takeaway is that "Perfect try" is the ownage comeback to "Nice try".

[xudash]

You're right. I've been bested by the man they call Luteinizing Hormone again. His eloquent denial of his responses to his quotes taken in context and verbatim have bested me once again.

I've learned a lot today and I thank you LH. _LH has convinced me that money does not drive college sports conferences - especially football. I've learned that Texas A&M, Kansas, and the rest are thrilled with the option of making no revenue from the Longhorn network while it broadcasts their games. I've learned that Kansas has not been in talks with the Big East despite them saying on multiple occasions that they have been for years.

Money doesn't drive collegiate sports - that was true when Schmidt Memorial Fieldhouse was built (1928); not so much by the time the Cintas Center went up.

[_LH]

You are so focused on believing that the end goal must be to preserve the Big XII that you simply think it is a matter of plugging and playing new teams into empty slots, without clear regard to the market appeal and potential of the programs you consider to be valid replacements for a BCS caliber conference.

Have you seen the schedule that ranks programs by gross revenue generated? 3 programs achieve 9-digit status: Texas, Ohio State and Florida. Texas is taking unilateral action where schools such as A&M, Oklahoma and Mizzou are presently involved. You don't look like you're all with it if you believe Texas has even a drop of interest in teaming up with Wyoming or Tulane given that reality.

You also don't seem to grasp the reality that Kansas has been and is in contact with the BE, as it must be, given that it is aware of a scenario that involves the Big XII exploding by actions involving both the SEC and the Pac Ten. BTW, comparing what one weak conference (BE) did to shore itself up after a raid to what Texas and the Big XII should do is almost baffling. There is no equal footing in this deal, especially in a world where a program like Texas appears to be perfectly comfortable in going independent.

This is YOU jumping to conclusions.

Salvaging the B12 is a better option for KU that joining the BE.

[_LH]

I can't believe Jimmy is such an idiot.

xu95

You got that part right.

[_LH]

You're right. I've been bested by the man they call Luteinizing Hormone again. His eloquent denial of his responses to his quotes taken in context and verbatim have bested me once again.

I've learned a lot today and I thank you LH. _LH has convinced me that money does not drive college sports conferences - especially football. I've learned that Texas A&M, Kansas, and the rest are thrilled with the option of making no revenue from the Longhorn network while it broadcasts their games. I've learned that Kansas has not been in talks with the Big East despite them saying on multiple occasions that they have been for years.

KU is not going to the BE and salvaging the B12 makes much more sense and that is why KU is trying to do just that.

The rest of you post is a bunch of nonsense which is typical of young James.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

My biggest takeaway is that "Perfect try" is the ownage comeback to "Nice try".

What would be the comeback that could trump "Perfect Try?"

[_LH]

What would be the comeback that could trump "Perfect Try?"

Nothing.

[_LH]

Nice try.

Perfect try but thanks.

[_LH]

Nothing.

pwned!

Double nothing.

I own you. This has been covered. Thanks.

[GoMuskies]

Triple dog dare nothing!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Double nothing.

I own you. This has been covered. Thanks.

Go Muskies in the red, _LH in the white and red

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd457/jake1224/caseynegged-1.gif

[_LH]

Go Muskies in the red, _LH in the white and red

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd457/jake1224/caseynegged-1.gif

Switch it and you'd be right.

[paulxu]

Is _LH related to the LHN?

[_LH]

Is _LH related to the LHN?

Nope.

[chico]

Switch it and you'd be right.

In the red GoMuskies, in the white and red _LH. There, switched 'em.

[_LH]

In the red GoMuskies, in the white and red _LH. There, switched 'em.

Switch it to LH in the red and you'd be on to something.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Again, LH, answer this simple question



Why would Kansas want to stay in the Big 12 and collect ZERO revenue from the Texas Longhorn Network that will show their games when the BIG EAST is calling for them to join and SHARE THE REVENUE?

[_LH]

Again, LH, answer this simple question



Why would Kansas want to stay in the Big 12 and collect ZERO revenue from the Texas Longhorn Network that will show their games when the BIG EAST is calling for them to join and SHARE THE REVENUE?

Never said they would.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Never said they would.

Alright then, I think we've made a minor breakthrough in understanding each other.

Do you think Kansas will join the Big East? Notice I didn't say "Should they".

[_LH]

Alright then, I think we've made a minor breakthrough in understanding each other.

Do you think Kansas will join the Big East? Notice I didn't say "Should they".

If you read what I wrote instead of attempting to put words in what I actually wrote, you could have "understood" what I was saying pages ago.

Too many factors are unresolved at this point but I don't see KU joining the BE without exhausting many other avenues to stay with as many B12 teams as possible.

Why would the BE want KU but the PAC 25 wouldn't? If the BE can operate a 20 team league, couldn't the Pac 10 do so as well?

[GoMuskies]

Why would the BE want KU but the PAC 25 wouldn't? If the BE can operate a 20 team league, couldn't the Pac 10 do so as well?

Because Kansas football blows and, as you said earlier, football is the driver.

The Big East, on the other hand, just needs established BCS "name" programs to keep holding on to that BCS bid as long as possible. The "basketball boost" would be a nice plus for the Big East in the exchange.

[_LH]

Because Kansas football blows and, as you said earlier, football is the driver.

The Big East, on the other hand, just needs established BCS "name" programs to keep holding on to that BCS bid as long as possible. The "basketball boost" would be a nice plus for the Big East in the exchange.

Can't have it both ways. If Kansas blows than the BE with plenty of BCS teams wouldn't need them. Its not like their BCS status is in jeopady and adding KU allows them to keep it.

[_LH]

K-State would come with them. K-State football doesn't necessarily blow (at least not always).

And if this expansion of the other conferences continues, and the Big East continues to have teams like Cincinnati and UConn win their league and get their skulls caved in during BCS games, then, yes, their BCS bid could be at risk. Better for them to have as many members of the "establishment" as possible going forward.

So they would go to the Pac 25 as well. Sorry, not buying your weak theory.

[_LH]

UConn and Syracuse would join the Pac 10?

What is it, exactly, that you think Kansas and Kansas State have that the Pac-(however many) might want? I'm writing from the largest city in Kansas, and it's pretty GD small.

You said that KSU would be attactive to the BE. If that's true I think they PAC 25 would think so too.

[_LH]

If the Pac-10 gets OU, OK State, TA&M and Mizzou, KU and K-State would add less than nothing (they would actually subtract from the pie). The Big East doesn't exactly have that luxury. They've spent the last few years deciding whether to invite Memphis or UCF to join. KU and K-State look delicious by comparison.

A 20 team BE doesn't have a big pie either. The PAC 25 would be as interested as the BE would be in KU and KSU.

Let Texas go independent and the other B12 schools stay in the B12 and invite Texas in as a bball only school.

[_LH]

What would KU or K-State bring to the Pac 10?

Established BCS teams in football and top notch bball programs. They certainly would not hurt the Pac 25's image.

[_LH]

But the Pac 25 wouldn't need that. The Big East would (at least the establilshed BCS football part; Big East b-ball is obviously fine).

The BE does not need it.

The PAC 25 would be as interested.

Where is Texas going to play bball if they go independent?

[DC Muskie]

What the hell is the PAC 25?

And if Texas somehow went independent in football, their other sports would probably end up in the Sun Belt Conference.

Because no one else would want them.

[_LH]

What the hell is the PAC 25?

And if Texas somehow went independent in football, their other sports would probably end up in the Sun Belt Conference.

Because no one else would want them.

Like no one wanted ND's other sports? Please.

[DC Muskie]

Like no one wanted ND's other sports? Please.

Please. ND and Texas are two different programs.

Look at BYU. Their other sports went to the WCC. Nice fit.

Find a conference like that is close by, then you could have your answer.

[_LH]

The Big East is at risk of hemmoraging teams if expansion goes again. ACC and Big Ten could pick off a few. KU and K-State additions could head that off. They're going to need to be proactive if there's another round of expansion. The Pac 10, on the other hand, will be fat and happy (and deservedly so).

No idea where TX would play basketball. I'm not sure they'll so much "go independent" as have independence thrust upon them if all this shakes out.

If they are forced out then why wouldn't the remaining B12 teams just stick together.

You have way too many if's out there. Basically no one has a clue what is going to happen but I doubt KU to the BE is anything other than a last resort. You obviously disagree.

[_LH]

Please. ND and Texas are two different programs.

Look at BYU. Their other sports went to the WCC. Nice fit.

Find a conference like that is close by, then you could have your answer.

Texas doesn't have a top notch bball and baseball program or at least as good as ND's? Please.

[DC Muskie]

Texas doesn't have a top notch bball and baseball program or at least as good as ND's? Please.

They have better programs actually. But that is not the point. They are not the same. I'm sure you can see that.

You can't think of a place where Texas's other sports would go...and yet at the same time declare how everyone would want them.

So which is it?

Please.

[_LH]

I really don't disagree. I find it hard to believe KU wants to go to the Big East. But if the Big XII implodes out from under them, I think they'll have little choice. It will essentially be their last resort. There's no way KU is working with TX to rebuild the league after TX destroys it unless TX decides to share their money pile. And that's not happening.

I think there are some other options for KU but there is no point in going into what if's because like you said the BE would be only a last resort.

[_LH]

They have better programs actually. But that is not the point. They are not the same. I'm sure you can see that.

You can't think of a place where Texas's other sports would go...and yet at the same time declare how everyone would want them.

So which is it?

Please.

The situations are almost identical actually. I'm sure you can see that.

I can think of plenty of places where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 would love Texas bball and baseball. Wake up.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wouldn't Texas be better off independent at this point?


Where are they playing bball? Texas would make a pile of money either way in football and have a BCS bid to fall back on in a conference setting in off years. Ask ND if that matters.


Oh I was just talking about Independent in football. That's where they make their big time revenue.

For Bball, I'm sure the pac 12 or someone would love to have them


They could have gone idependent years ago. Being in a BCS conference with Kansas, KSU, Baylor, Boise St. etc allows them to get BCS bids in years where they would not as an independent.


The BE does not need it.

The PAC 25 would be as interested.

Where is Texas going to play bball if they go independent?


The Big East is at risk of hemmoraging teams if expansion goes again. ACC and Big Ten could pick off a few. KU and K-State additions could head that off. They're going to need to be proactive if there's another round of expansion. The Pac 10, on the other hand, will be fat and happy (and deservedly so).

No idea where TX would play basketball. I'm not sure they'll so much "go independent" as have independence thrust upon them if all this shakes out.


Please. ND and Texas are two different programs.

Look at BYU. Their other sports went to the WCC. Nice fit.

Find a conference like that is close by, then you could have your answer.


Texas doesn't have a top notch bball and baseball program or at least as good as ND's? Please.


They have better programs actually. But that is not the point. They are not the same. I'm sure you can see that.

You can't think of a place where Texas's other sports would go...and yet at the same time declare how everyone would want them.

So which is it?

Please.


The situations are almost identical actually. I'm sure you can see that.

I can think of plenty of places where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 would love Texas bball and baseball. Wake up.


So basically you went from disagreeing with me about Texas going independent in football to completely agreeing with me at the end.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of time and posts in both agreeing that the Pac 12 would love Texas in their league for football if the LHN wasn't included and the other sports if football became independent

[DC Muskie]

The situations are almost identical actually. I'm sure you can see that.

I can think of plenty of places where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 would love Texas bball and baseball. Wake up.

Please tell me why you think they are identical.

Please tell me where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 is it now? And no, they would not "love" Texas bball and baseball.

I'm not sure why you think that. Let's look at the other D 1 football independents:

ND- Big East. Half the schools don't have football programs.
Army/Navy- Play in the Patriot League. Not D 1 football
BYU- WCC- no football.

So unless the Pac 12 schools want to add just one school to their conference, for non football sports, Texas will not be joining another Big 6 conference.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The situations are almost identical actually. I'm sure you can see that.

I can think of plenty of places where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 would love Texas bball and baseball. Wake up.


He is heated now

[_LH]

So basically you went from disagreeing with me about Texas going independent in football to completely agreeing with me at the end.

We could have saved ourselves a lot of time and posts in both agreeing that the Pac 12 would love Texas in their league for football if the LHN wasn't included and the other sports if football became independent

I never disagreed about Texas pursuing independence in football. Where do you come up with this stuff. I said KU would try everything possible to keep the B12 intact as oppossed to going to the BE.

[_LH]

Please tell me why you think they are identical.

Please tell me where Texas's non football sports could go.

The Pac 12 is it now? And no, they would not "love" Texas bball and baseball.

I'm not sure why you think that. Let's look at the other D 1 football independents:

ND- Big East. Half the schools don't have football programs.
Army/Navy- Play in the Patriot League. Not D 1 football
BYU- WCC- no football.

So unless the Pac 12 schools want to add just one school to their conference, for non football sports, Texas will not be joining another Big 6 conference.

If you can't see it there really is no hope for you. I don't know if you actually believe what you wrote or just want to be argumentative but either way, you are completely wrong.

[xubrew]

Kansas State does not even come remotely close to meeting the ratings and classifications as an institution to appeal to the Pac Twelve. They're not in the AAU, and they're rated somewhere around 130th when it comes to public national universities. The Pac Twelve would not even look at them.

I don't think they'll look at Kansas either, even though they at least meet the institutional criteria. Even more so, I don't think the state legislature would support Kansas and Kansas State splitting up. The Big East is far more viable. Anyone can see that. Well...almost anyone.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If you can't see it there really is no hope for you. I don't know if you actually believe what you wrote or just want to be argumentative but either way, you are completely wrong.

Oh boy

[_LH]

Kansas State does not even come remotely close to meeting the ratings and classifications as an institution to appeal to the Pac Twelve. They're not in the AAU, and they're rated somewhere around 130th when it comes to public national universities. The Pac Twelve would not even look at them.

I don't think they'll look at Kansas either, even though they at least meet the institutional criteria. Even more so, I don't think the state legislature would support Kansas and Kansas State splitting up. The Big East is far more viable. Anyone can see that. Well...almost anyone.

I did not bring KSU into the conversation. I have been discussing KU not going to the BE.

[xubrew]

I did not bring KSU into the conversation. I have been discussing KU not going to the BE.

I don't think they'll look at Kansas either, even though they at least meet the institutional criteria. Even more so, I don't think the state legislature would support Kansas and Kansas State splitting up. The Big East is far more viable. Anyone can see that. Well...almost anyone

[_LH]

I don't think they'll look at Kansas either, even though they at least meet the institutional criteria. Even more so, I don't think the state legislature would support Kansas and Kansas State splitting up. The Big East is far more viable. Anyone can see that. Well...almost anyone

Not at all. KU to the BE is a last ditch effort. The Pac 25 is a much more likely destination.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Not at all. KU to the BE is a last ditch effort. The Pac 25 is a much more likely destination.

Well then you disagree with the national media, Most public opinion, and The University of Kansas who's been in talks with the Big East

[_LH]

Well then you disagree with the national media, Most public opinion, and The University of Kansas who's been in talks with the Big East

I disagree with some of the speculation out there. No facts.

I also don't disagree that KU has been "in talks" with the BE. Doesn't mean they are going to go there, just checking all options.

[xubrew]

You said that KSU would be attactive to the BE. If that's true I think they PAC 25 would think so too.

I don't think under any circumstances the Pac 12 would find Kansas State attractive.

If the Big East does not want Kansas State, then the Pac Twelve will not want Kansas State.

If the Big East does want Kansas State, then the Pac Twelve will not want Kansas State.

Since the state legislature and board of trustees at both institutions are entangled, I don't think the two will split up. Therefore, Kansas will not be going to the Pac Twelve. For Starters, I don't think the Pac Twelve would want them anyway, but even if they did, the state legislature/board of trustees would never go unless Kansas State came with them.

Most people will understand that. I have no expectations that you will, though.

[_LH]

I don't think under any circumstances the Pac 12 would find Kansas State attractive.

I don't care what you think or your crazy what if's. You are wrong.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I don't care what you think or your crazy what if's. You are wrong.

Where do you think Kansas and Kansas State will end up? What is your prediction?

[GoMuskies]

If LH were a litigator, I'd love to hear his closing argument:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my opposing counsel is wrong. Not even close. Nice try, though. I have owned him. I'm not going to bore you with facts or reasons why my oppenent is wrong. He is wrong. This has been covered. Thank you."

That's Chewbacca defense strong.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If LH were a litigator, I'd love to hear his closing argument:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my opposing counsel is wrong. Not even close. Nice try, though. I have owned him. I'm not going to bore you with facts or reasons why my oppenent is wrong. He is wrong. This has been covered. Thank you."

That's Chewbacca defense strong.

I would rep you but alas I cannot. This is hilarious.

I would love to see _LH in a Presidential debate or on a CNN/Fox/MSNBC disagreeing with the host

[_LH]

Where do you think Kansas and Kansas State will end up? What is your prediction?

Not in the BE, otherwise there are too many what if's to even speculate.

[_LH]

If LH were a litigator, I'd love to hear his closing argument:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my opposing counsel is wrong. Not even close. Nice try, though. I have owned him. I'm not going to bore you with facts or reasons why my oppenent is wrong. He is wrong. This has been covered. Thank you."

That's Chewbacca defense strong.

I wouldn't be wrong though like you.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Not in the BE, otherwise there are too many what if's to even speculate.

So you speculate they won't be in the Big East, and then immediately condone all speculations.

This is a message board. It's ok to have an opinion. I think they will be in the Big East sooner rather than later.

[DC Muskie]

If you can't see it there really is no hope for you. I don't know if you actually believe what you wrote or just want to be argumentative but either way, you are completely wrong.

There is nothing that I wrote that is wrong.

It is indeed a fact that Notre Dame plays their non football division 1 sports in the Big East. In the Big East there are other schools who participate in that conference who do not have division 1 football.

It is indeed a fact that both Army and Navy play their non football division 1 sports in the Patriot League. In the Patriot League no other members have division 1 football.

It is indeed a fact that BYU will play their non football division 1 sports in the WCC. In the WCCC, just like the Patriot League, there are no other schools with a Division 1 football program.

No other Big 6 conference takes a school for all sports but football, besides the Big East. An Notre Dame being the unique program they are, fit perfectly into the set up of football and non football programs.

So please show me where I am wrong, rather then just spouting off that I am wrong and that there is no hope for me, whatever the f that means.

[_LH]

So you speculate they won't be in the Big East, and then immediately condone all speculations.

This is a message board. It's ok to have an opinion. I think they will be in the Big East sooner rather than later.

I don't care for your opinion.

I understand you have one though.

I don't see KU going to the BE.

[_LH]

There is nothing that I wrote that is wrong.

Incorrect. Everything you wrote was pretty much wrong.

[_LH]

Nice try DC, but the Patriot and WCC have members with Division I football. They are FCS instead of FBS. So not even close. Owned. Thanks for playing. Chewbacca.

What?

[xu95]

If LH were a litigator, I'd love to hear his closing argument:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my opposing counsel is wrong. Not even close. Nice try, though. I have owned him. I'm not going to bore you with facts or reasons why my oppenent is wrong. He is wrong. This has been covered. Thank you."

That's Chewbacca defense strong.

GD Obamahood.

xu95

[xu95]

Have they extended the computer hours at the library?

xu95

[DC Muskie]

Incorrect. Everything you wrote was pretty much wrong.

Wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/george_schroeder/08/05/pac-12-larry-scott-realignment/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

[_LH]

Wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/george_schroeder/08/05/pac-12-larry-scott-realignment/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

That proves what exactly? You are wrong. Sorry.

[DC Muskie]

That proves what exactly? You are wrong. Sorry.

It proves I'm right and you are wrong.

Owned.

[_LH]

It proves I'm right and you are wrong.

Owned.

Not by a long shot but nice try.

You are wrong now move along.

[DC Muskie]

Not by a long shot but nice try.

You are wrong now move along.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Owned.

[_LH]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Owned.

You are wrong. Thanks for agreeing with me finally.

You are also correct about me owning you. Thanks.

[Juice]

You are wrong. Thanks for agreeing with me finally.

You are also correct about me owning you. Thanks.

Holy shit, you might be 7 years old at best.

[_LH]

Holy shit, you might be 7 years old at best.

Yeah, the others involved in this back and forth act like they are two at best.

[DC Muskie]

Holy shit, you might be 7 years old at best.

Sorry. Sometimes I actually feel LH could somehow come up with argument. Instead of answering questions, or responding to an article written on what we have been talking about, he shoots back with nothing.

[_LH]

Sorry. Sometimes I actually feel LH could somehow come up with argument. Instead of answering questions, or responding to an article written on what we have been talking about, he shoots back with nothing.

I answered about your speculation article that presented 0 facts. It was meaningless like most of your posts on here.

[DC Muskie]

I answered about your speculation article that presented 0 facts. It was meaningless like most of your posts on here.

See what I mean Juice? He provides nothing. And I'm sorry I let him have an opportunity to respond with more of nothing.

[_LH]

See what I mean Juice? He provides nothing. And I'm sorry I let him have an opportunity to respond with more of nothing.

You have responded with less than nothing so I still own you.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

You have responded with less than nothing so I still own you.

DC provided a link from a reputable source. You have provided no links whatsoever to back up your position

[_LH]

DC provided a link from a reputable source. You have provided no links whatsoever to back up your position

A link filled with opinions and what ifs which basically means nothing. Thanks though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A link filled with opinions and what ifs which basically means nothing. Thanks though.

But a link nonetheless. Now its your turn to show a link that verifies your beliefs in this argument.




http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/08/01/actionreaction-pac-12-expansion-options-or-lack-thereof/

"Action/reaction: Pac-12 expansion options … or lack thereof"
POSTED BY JON WILNER ON AUGUST 1ST, 2011 AT 8:09 AM | CATEGORIZED AS BIG 12 FOOTBALL, LARRY SCOTT, OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL, PAC-12 CONFERENCE, PAC-12 NETWORK, PAC-12 BASKETBALL, PAC-12 FOOTBALL, TEXAS FOOTBALL

*** 5:15 p.m. update (and I should have made this very clear from the outset): Oklahoma and Texas state politics NOT included in the discussion below. That’s an entirely different conversation (or three).

Thoughts on the landscape …

Action: Commissioner Larry Scott tells the Austin American Statesman that the Pac-12 Network likely kills any chance of Texas joining the Pac-12.
Reaction I: Scott’s comments make official what has been apparent for months: The Pac-12 Network (in the works since early May) and the Longhorn Network cannot co-exist. There are simply too many philosophical and financial conflicts.
Reaction II: The Pac-12 probably will reach a point in the intermediate future when it must determine whether expansion (to 14 or 16 teams) is worthwhile without Texas. The answer depends on which schools are available.
Reaction III: If the Big 12 dissolves — I should say, when the Big 12 dissolves — and Oklahoma and Texas A&M head to the SEC, then the Pac-12 will be woefully short of quality options. Texas Tech and Oklahoma State are worth far less to the conference without Texas and Oklahoma … if they are worth anything at all. The beauty of the Pac-16 arrangement was the natural division split with the Arizona schools joining Colorado, UT, A&M, Tech, and the Oklahoma schools in the east. It made perfect sense from the standpoint of natural rivalries and travel costs for Olympic sports.


Reaction IV: Without Texas, A&M and Oklahoma, what combination of schools could meet the league’s academic threshold and form a seven- or eight-team eastern division that encompasses enough TV households to justify the additional revenue splits? I’ve always thought Missouri would be attractive from the standpoint of academics and TV market, but Mizzou would push the Pac-12 far beyond its natural footprint. San Diego State? Nope, the conference has no interest in a CSU school and the Aztecs don’t bring additional TV sets (San Diego is already part of the Pac-12 footprint). Boise State? Please. If the conference had any interest in the Broncos, it would have pursued them last summer. (BSU doesn’t bring enough TV sets, doesn’t cut the mustard academically and doesn’t have a Pac-caliber broad-based athletic program.) Frankly, I’m not sure there are any good options for the Pac-12 with Texas, Oklahoma and A&M all off the table.
Reaction V: Now … If Oklahoma and A&M were to reject the SEC and consider the Pac-12, then the conference might have some workable pieces: The Sooners and Aggies would increase the value of Oklahoma State and Tech and form a quartet that conceivably could be paired with the Arizona schools and Utah/Colorado to form an “eastern” division. That wouldn’t form as clean a split, and without Texas it wouldn’t be nearly as lucrative — but it might be workable.
Reaction VI: It seems inevitable that Texas will go Independent in football, resulting in the collapse of the Big 12. But that point might come later rather than sooner. And the reason is an oft-overlooked component to the Independent issue: The Longhorns would need a home for their powerhouse Olympic and women’s sports. If the Big 12 breaks apart, where would they place their men’s basketball team? Their baseball team? The Pac-12/14/16 wouldn’t make sense logistically. The Mountain West and Conference USA would be options, but bad ones. (Texas vs. Nevada in swimming!?!?) BYU faced the same dilemma as UT until the West Coast Conference offered a first-rate solution. Texas wouldn’t have a comparable option in the post-Big 12 world. (Taking the Olympic sports down the Independent road would create an entirely new set of problems, from scheduling to NCAA championship access.)
Reaction VII: So the Longhorns must continue to walk a fine line in the Big 12, flexing their muscle just enough to satisfy their ego and bank account while making enough concessions to keep the conference afloat. At least for a few more years.

[_LH]

A link filled with opionins and a bunch of what ifs is meaningless. Thanks though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A link filled with opionins and a bunch of what ifs is meaningless. Thanks though.

Whose "opionins" are more reliable? People whose livelihood and job security depend on covering the issues so they have to be more knowledgeable or some guy on a message board just going "Nope. Sorry. Nice try. Thanks though" while providing absolutely ZERO links to back up his opinion

You just gave yourself away _LH. Now everyone knows you aren't a serious individual and you are just having fun messing around on internet chat boards

[_LH]

Whose "opionins" are more reliable? People whose livelihood and job security depend on covering the issues so they have to be more knowledgeable or some guy on a message board just going "Nope. Sorry. Nice try. Thanks though" while providing absolutely ZERO links to back up his opinion

You just gave yourself away _LH. Now everyone knows you aren't a serious individual and you are just having fun messing around on internet chat boards

They are all basically meaningless for this particular possibility.

So called experts don't know anymore than you do.

[xubrew]

They are all basically meaningless for this particular possibility.

So called experts don't know anymore than you do.

So, when the commissioner of the Pac Twelve says that the Pac Twelve network likely kills any chance of Texas joining, he' doesn't know what he's talking about.

Larry Scott is clueless, DC and Jimmy. Sorry. The Pac Twelve would love to have Texas in baseball and basketball. The league's own commissioner is wrong. He's just speculating wildly when he says otherwise. Wake up!!

[_LH]

So, when the commissioner of the Pac Twelve says that the Pac Twelve network likely kills any chance of Texas joining, he' doesn't know what he's talking about.

Larry Scott is clueless, DC and Jimmy. Sorry. The Pac Twelve would love to have Texas in baseball and basketball. The league's own commissioner is wrong. He's just speculating wildly when he says otherwise. Wake up!!

Did you see the word "likely" in there? I did not say people don't know what they are talking about I'm saying his article is full of speculation, opinions and what ifs.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Did you see the word "likely" in there? I did not say people don't know what they are talking about I'm saying his article is full of speculation, opinions and what ifs.


Now I know you are an act. Don't understand why you would want to play this role for nearly a decade but whatever floats your boat. No one can possibly think the words of the pac 12 commissioner taken from a journalist directly and in context are not reliable

[_LH]

Now I know you are an act. Don't understand why you would want to play this role for nearly a decade but whatever floats your boat. No one can possibly think the words of the pac 12 commissioner taken from a journalist directly and in context are not reliable

I never said he was unreliable. Did you really graduate from XU?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A link filled with opinions and what ifs which basically means nothing. Thanks though.


A link filled with opionins and a bunch of what ifs is meaningless. Thanks though.


They are all basically meaningless for this particular possibility.

So called experts don't know anymore than you do.


Did you see the word "likely" in there? I did not say people don't know what they are talking about I'm saying his article is full of speculation, opinions and what ifs.


I never said he was unreliable. Did you really graduate from XU?

So you disagree with yourself?

[_LH]

So you disagree with yourself?

The articles are meaningless as there are too many what ifs to be considerend and many that may never happen.

That does not mean the Pac 12 commish is unreliable or that I said he was.

I hate that you "graduated" from XU.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The articles are meaningless as there are too many what ifs to be considerend and many that may never happen.

That does not mean the Pac 12 commish is unreliable or that I said he was.

I hate that you "graduated" from XU.

Again with the personal insults? Lame

Here's the link between your comments and the pac 12 commissioner Genghis. The journalist INTERVIEWED the Pac 12 commissioner and wrote down what he said VERBATIM. He then REPORTED when the pac 12 commissioner said.

Your gig is up.

[_LH]

Again with the personal insults? Lame

Here's the link between your comments and the pac 12 commissioner Genghis. The journalist INTERVIEWED the Pac 12 commissioner and wrote down what he said VERBATIM. He then REPORTED when the pac 12 commissioner said.

Your gig is up.

There is no gig. I really don't think you know how to read. Even the commissioner is speculating in that article.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

There is no gig. I really don't think you know how to read. Even the commissioner is speculating in that article.

You're right. The pac 12 commissioner doesn't have a clue about whats going on in his own conference.

[_LH]

You're right. The pac 12 commissioner doesn't have a clue about whats going on in his own conference.

I never said that.

[boozehound]

I never said that.

Yes you did. You are wrong. This has been covered.

[_LH]

Yes you did. You are wrong. This has been covered.

Not I did not but nice try.

[boozehound]

Not I did not but nice try.

Yes you did. Nice try. This has been covered.

[_LH]

Yes you did. Nice try. This has been covered.

I did not. Thanks.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I did not. Thanks.

Actually you did. This has been covered. Sorry. Nice try. Wake up! Thanks.

[_LH]

Incorrect.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

How realistic is SEC expansion?
April, 28, 2010
4/28/10
10:08
AM ET

Email
Print
Comments

By Chris Low
Kevin Scarbinsky of The Birmingham News has an excellent column on the possibility of SEC expansion.

In particular, he captures exactly what SEC commissioner Mike Slive is thinking right now as the talk gets increasingly louder about the Big Ten expanding.

The Big Ten is looking to become a superconference. The SEC already is a superconference, at least in football. And football is, was and always will be the engine that drives the train in college athletics.

Now, that doesn't mean Slive has his head in the sand. Far from it. If the Big Ten goes to 16 teams or even 14 teams, the SEC will consider its options.

Don't you just love the prepared statement Slive has been reading about the whole subject as it relates to the SEC?

"Given the success we’ve experienced over the past decade, we are comfortable in the position in which we find ourselves. Having said that, if there’s going to be a significant shift in the conference paradigm, the SEC will be strategic and thoughtful in order to maintain its position as one of the nation’s premier conferences."


In other words, if anybody can catch us, go ahead and try. And if you do (or even if you get close), we're prepared to bring in reinforcements.

Who would those reinforcements be?

I still think the ideal scenario for the SEC would be to expand a little further West and get Texas and Texas A&M. It's doubtful you get one of those without the other. The Longhorns probably aren't going to move, either, unless the Big 12 starts to crumble because other schools start fleeing.

The second move for the SEC would be to go further south. Florida State makes the most sense, although there might be some resistance by Florida since the Seminoles had their chance the first time, but opted for the ACC over the SEC. Miami would also be attractive, especially with the South Florida television market, but Florida would probably be adamantly opposed to the Hurricanes joining the SEC.

Therefore, I still think Clemson could be the other target. Clemson has always been an SEC team at heart masquerading as an ACC team. It's a football-first school with a rich tradition and passionate fans and is located in SEC country.

So my four picks would be Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State and Clemson.

Will we ever get to that point?

Sounds like it's up to the Big Ten.

Either way -- just like any good athletic director when it comes to hiring coaches -- I bet Slive has a short list of schools in his top desk drawer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/10502/how-realistic-is-sec-expansion

[Muskie]

Everyone knock it off. Final warning.

[XUglow]

TAMU people think the announcement that they are moving to the SEC will be made this week.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

TAMU people think the announcement that they are moving to the SEC will be made this week.

That'd be awesome!

[X-band '01]

Everyone knock it off. Final warning.

http://images.hollywood.com/cms/500x625/5211325.jpg

Warming up in the bullpen:

(RHP) Muskie
(LHP) Wild Thing American X

[XUglow]

That'd be awesome!

I wonder how awesome TAMU will think it is when 7-5 becomes a pretty darn good year.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I wonder how awesome TAMU will think it is when 7-5 becomes a pretty darn good year.

That would suck for them but at least they share revenue of their own actual games televised as opposed to this Longhorn Network deal.

Hoping for a chain of events ultimately leading to a Big East bball and football league split.

Hoping that will, in turn, invite X in.

[DC Muskie]

TAMU people think the announcement that they are moving to the SEC will be made this week.

Does that mean Clempson is the next choice for the SEC? Or does another Big 12 team come with them? I can't think of another team that would.

Does that then mean the Big 12 goes after TCU or is there something sour about the relationship with Baylor and TCU? Or does TCU's move to the Big East negate anything anyway?

That's a lot of questions, right?

[xu95]

Clemson would accept the invite while on the phone.

xu95

[paulxu]

Clemson would accept the invite while on the phone.

While I would like that (and Tech, Louisville and Fla St to create a real "southeastern" conference), I'm thinking that Clemson wouldn't.

Their path to a BCS bowl now goes through Fla St, Va Tech, BC, Maryland, UNC, Tech, Wake, and NC State.

If they were in the SEC, it would go through FLorida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky and a (hopefully) resurgent South Carolina.

Not sure that is a good swap for them.

[XUglow]

While I would like that (and Tech, Louisville and Fla St to create a real "southeastern" conference), I'm thinking that Clemson wouldn't.

Their path to a BCS bowl now goes through Fla St, Va Tech, BC, Maryland, UNC, Tech, Wake, and NC State.

If they were in the SEC, it would go through FLorida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Vandy, Kentucky and a (hopefully) resurgent South Carolina.

Not sure that is a good swap for them.

In the SEC, they send out checks. They don't do direct deposit. They send out checks directly to the schools. They send out VERY large checks. Clemson or Missouri or Florida State will have a tough time turning down those checks if offered. Vandy gets more money for being 12th in the SEC every year than Clemson gets from the ACC when they go to a BCS game.

TAMU and Mizzou have to pay Texas to keep Texas happy. They get a smaller piece of the B12 pie than does Texas. They aren't happy about that arrangement.

[paulxu]

OK....I yield to the "money talks" position. Plus, I'd like to see Clemson get pounded more often. Their fans are obnoxious.

[chico]

Clemson makes sense but I think FSU would be more appealing to the SEC, and vice versa. The only impediment would probably be Florida's reluctance to have them in the same conference. Like Clemson, FSU doesn't really fit the ACC mold.

[paulxu]

Clemson or Missouri or Florida State will have a tough time turning down those checks if offered.

Glow, do you think all 3 of those plus A&M will come to the SEC?

[American X]

TAMU people think the announcement that they are moving to the SEC will be made this week.

I got word from Aggieland that it is a question of when not if and it will be a more accelerated timeline than expected.

Get a twelve-pack of Shiner Bock and wait by the computer.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I got word from Aggieland that it is a question of when not if and it will be a more accelerated timeline than expected.

Get a twelve-pack of Shiner Bock and wait by the computer.

Giggity. Lets get the chain reaction going A & M. Head to the Big East kansas and K state and lets hope its splits into bball and football leagues

[Muskie]

Does anyone have a link to the A&M stuff? I'm not finding any.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Here's an article from today about Big 12 commish Dan Beebe

http://v4.texags.com/Stories/2594


Message boards with all kinds of rumors. Hopefully these are true:

@MikeTaylor760 : 2 rumors on the mill. One that SEC awaiting Ags to finalize deal and one that Ag lawyers sent letter of intent last night. #sec

@MikeTaylor760 : The winds of change beginning to blow in College Station again. Seems to be a matter of when and not if. #sec

@MikeTaylor760 : And now a 3rd rumor from SEC source that claims Ags will jump east in time for next year! Wow. Nothing confirmed.

Someone on their message board said they received a text "According to "sources" A&M sent notice to the big 12 offices today stating their intention to leave for the SEC"

Allegedly a Letter of grievance filed with Big 12 according to another site citing A&M's displeasure with the Big 12.

UNVERIFIED RUMORS GALORE

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Premium section of Texas A&M Scout site says A&M likely to dump Big 12 next year

[xudash]

A little data on the ESPN side of the aisle:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/fourelementsmedia.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApSPddbohdK9dDg2QmxSV3h4VUNWd2c2NHU5UzBjY 2c&hl=en_US#gid=0