Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[GoMuskies]

If you go Creighton, you gotta go Wichita State, too. Same premise, essentially.

But I don't think we want to become midwest-centric.

[Founding Father]

From my perspective, the BCS was nothing new. It was just the latest modification to what was previously called the Bowl Coalition. The Rose, Sugar, Fiesta and Orange Bowls were already affiliated with the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Pac Ten, Big Twelve and SEC and saw no reason to include anyone else.

So if the new BE is comprised mostly of old CUSA teams along with Rutgers, you still think they will retain a BCS bid?

[xubrew]

So if the new BE is comprised mostly of old CUSA teams along with Rutgers, you still think they will retain a BCS bid?

Yes. Because it's a safe majority teams, and I also think the BCS will feel a need to have a majority of conferences as well in case the NCAA bylaws change and it goes to one vote per conference instead of one vote per school.

Without a majority, the BCS won't exist. That's one of the reasons I think the Big East will keep it.

[SM#24]

I don't want XU to be in a conference with ECU, Air Force, Navy, UCF, South Florida, Houston or SMU.

I also don't want XU in a conference with Butler, Creighton and SLU.
[QUOTE=GoMuskies;291085]Navy and Air Force wouldn't play basketball in the league. And what's wrong with being in a conference with ECU, UCF, USF, Houston and SMU if it also includes 'Nova, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, Notre Dame, St. John's and DePaul? ECU and the others are no worse than Duquesne, UMass, Charlotte, SLU, LaSalle, Fordham and St. Bonny.

Ideally, I want X to be in a conference with (in order of preference) Villanova, Gtown, St. John's, Marquette, ND and DePaul. If we could get a chance to be in with 4-5 of those teams, then, I don't care who else is in or not in.

[Founding Father]

Yes. Because it's a safe majority teams, and I also think the BCS will feel a need to have a majority of conferences as well in case the NCAA bylaws change and it goes to one vote per conference instead of one vote per school.

Without a majority, the BCS won't exist. That's one of the reasons I think the Big East will keep it.

The big 5 along with the merger of the MVC and CUSA wouldn't be enough? I guess we will find out but I don't see the new BE comprised of old CUSA teams and Rutgers being part of any new deal that is created down the road.

[xubrew]

The big 5 along with the merger of the MVC and CUSA wouldn't be enough? I guess we will find out but I don't see the new BE comprised of old CUSA teams and Rutgers being part of any new deal that is created down the road.

If they include the CUSA/MWC champion it would be, but there is no guarantee that they will. That is the hope behind the merger, but the Mountain West didn't have an AQ before, and that was with TCU and Utah. CUSA was a weaker league than the MWC. Losing those two teams and merging with another weaker league hardly guarantees them a spot over whatever the Big East has left.

Also, in order for the Big East to remain in existence, it will need to add teams, and the teams they'll look to add will be the better teams from the MWC/CUSA conference.

If the new supercofnerence gets an AQ, then I would be very unsure about the BE keeping theirs. It's just that I don't think they'll get one over the BE.

[Founding Father]

If they include the CUSA/MWC champion it would be, but there is no guarantee that they will. That is the hope behind the merger, but the Mountain West didn't have an AQ before, and that was with TCU and Utah. CUSA was a weaker league than the MWC. Losing those two teams and merging with another weaker league hardly guarantees them a spot over whatever the Big East has left.

Also, in order for the Big East to remain in existence, it will need to add teams, and the teams they'll look to add will be the better teams from the MWC/CUSA conference.

If the new supercofnerence gets an AQ, then I would be very unsure about the BE keeping theirs. It's just that I don't think they'll get one over the BE.

The BE that originally obtained BCS status also no longer exists and will potentially be just CUSA teams and Rutgers so I'd have to say there is as much of a chance of the merged CUSA/MWC getting AQ status as the new BE does.

CUSA did not have AQ status before and I see no reason to give it to them now just because they changed their name to the BE and added in Rutgers.

[xubrew]

The BE that originally obtained BCS status also no longer exists and will potentially be just CUSA teams and Rutgers so I'd have to say there is as much of a chance of the merged CUSA/MWC getting AQ status as the new BE does.

CUSA did not have AQ status before and I see no reason to give it to them now just because they changed their name to the BE and added in Rutgers.

If the BE doesn't keep it, they'd almost have to give it to someone else if they wanted the BCS to continue. the superconference, I guess, is the best candidate.

Technicalities are more important than practicalities. And although CUSA may have PRACTICALLY changed its name to the Big East, that isn't really TECHNICALLY what happened. The Big East is still the same association, even if the membership is different, and I believe that does mean quite a bit.

With that thinking, it makes no sense to think that a bunch of Southwest Conference and WAC defectors that changed their name to the MWC or CUSA deserve a bid either. That's largely what the new superconference is.

Again, I'm not arguing that they DESERVE to keep it. Truth be told I don't want them to keep it because I want the BCS to go away entirely. I just think they WILL keep it.

[paulxu]

For the love of God...go Mizzou.
Go to 12, Big 12.
Die BE football so we can get this all over with.

Arrrrrrrrghhh. Head spins. Forced to quote himself. Drinks more bourbon. Again.

[xubrew]

Oh wow. Look at this.

Paul, you better get some more bourbon. We now have a proposal for a 32 team football superconference.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_mwc_c-.html

[paulxu]

I honestly can't remember who the groups are that are going to the 22 team deal, and if any of them are in this 32 team deal.

But...anything that has Temple in the Central, and Louisville in the East is obiously screwed up from the start.

The 2 big takeaways from that article seem to be:
1 - The BE is going to lose its AQ status since it can't even field one top 25 team

2 - They ignore the reality of (I think) the 12 team necessity for a playoff in the Big 12; I don't think Texas can stop that from happening eventually...and it would seem the 11th and 12th teams would come from the BE.

OK, the sun is almost up. Crack open the bottle.

[GoMuskies]

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_mwc_c-.html?comments=all#readerComm

Big East may join Mt. West/C-USA superconference for football.

[Masterofreality]

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_mwc_c-.html?comments=all#readerComm

Big East may join Mt. West/C-USA superconference for football.

Gawd. Please put this wounded monstrosity out of its misery.

Mizzou- Go to SEC.
Louisville, WVA, Brigham Young- Go to Big 12.
UCon- Go to ACC
Big Least- Die

[xubrew]

Gawd. Please put this wounded monstrosity out of its misery.

Mizzou- Go to SEC.
Louisville, WVA, Brigham Young- Go to Big 12.
UCon- Go to ACC
Big Least- Die

I don't think that would do anything to keep the Big East from meshing with CUSA and MWC.

[Founding Father]

I don't think that would do anything to keep the Big East from meshing with CUSA and MWC.

Me either but there would only be 3 teams left at that point so why wouldn't those three just join the mega CUSA/MWC conference?

The Big 5 plus this 25-32 super association/league could make up the 6 BCS leagues for football.

[Founding Father]

If the BE doesn't keep it, they'd almost have to give it to someone else if they wanted the BCS to continue. the superconference, I guess, is the best candidate.

Technicalities are more important than practicalities. And although CUSA may have PRACTICALLY changed its name to the Big East, that isn't really TECHNICALLY what happened. The Big East is still the same association, even if the membership is different, and I believe that does mean quite a bit.

With that thinking, it makes no sense to think that a bunch of Southwest Conference and WAC defectors that changed their name to the MWC or CUSA deserve a bid either. That's largely what the new superconference is.

Again, I'm not arguing that they DESERVE to keep it. Truth be told I don't want them to keep it because I want the BCS to go away entirely. I just think they WILL keep it.

The document goes on to say that there is a “low probability” the Big East would retain its automatic BCS bid after 2013. It states what is already known -- that the conference needed a waiver from commissioners to retain BCS membership in 2008. It also says that the Big East is so low in the current qualification standards that it wouldn’t even qualify for a waiver to remain a BCS league at the moment. It concludes the Big East in its current form does not merit BCS inclusion over “the MW/CUSA.”

http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32854353

[LA Muskie]

Me either but there would only be 3 teams left at that point so why wouldn't those three just join the mega CUSA/MWC conference?
BCS and NCAA unit $$$

[BMoreX]

Well....maybe not.


PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Big East is not considering the mega-merger plan reported earlier today. They haven't even seen it. Focused on growing to 12.
2 hours ago

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/weblogs/behind-the-stripes/2011/oct/22/missouri-seems-bound-for-sec-eastern-division/

Missouri seems bound for SEC Eastern Division

DanWetzel Dan Wetzel
SEC inquired about TCU, Frogs declined per FWST's @MacEngelProf. Told you it made sense for SEC tinyurl.com/43oamtj (@DaBigIke)

ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Updated story. West Virginia slight edge over BYU for Big 12 to replace Mizzou if it goes to SEC but situation fluid: es.pn/pQW39Y

[xudash]

http://www.columbiatribune.com/weblogs/behind-the-stripes/2011/oct/22/missouri-seems-bound-for-sec-eastern-division/

Missouri seems bound for SEC Eastern Division

DanWetzel Dan Wetzel
SEC inquired about TCU, Frogs declined per FWST's @MacEngelProf. Told you it made sense for SEC tinyurl.com/43oamtj (@DaBigIke)

ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Updated story. West Virginia slight edge over BYU for Big 12 to replace Mizzou if it goes to SEC but situation fluid: es.pn/pQW39Y

"Fluid" is a good word for it, since I thought, from reading something else, that BYU was completely out of consideration for the Big XII.

[paulxu]

ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Updated story. West Virginia slight edge over BYU for Big 12 to replace Mizzou if it goes to SEC but situation fluid: es.pn/pQW39Y

Well...what the hell happened to Lousiville? Still think B12 will end up 12.

[xubrew]

Well...what the hell happened to Lousiville? Still think B12 will end up 12.

The media's speculation has not been right about anything. They didn't know about TCU until after it had already happened. Both times. Same with Syracuse and Pitt. Same with pretty much everything.

[xubrew]

The document goes on to say that there is a “low probability” the Big East would retain its automatic BCS bid after 2013. It states what is already known -- that the conference needed a waiver from commissioners to retain BCS membership in 2008. It also says that the Big East is so low in the current qualification standards that it wouldn’t even qualify for a waiver to remain a BCS league at the moment. It concludes the Big East in its current form does not merit BCS inclusion over “the MW/CUSA.”

http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/32854353

See above regarding the media. We're talking about Dennis Dodd's blog for crissake.

For starters, much of the information is wrong.

Yes, the Big East got a waiver in 2008, but I believe the only term for the waiver was that it allowed the BE to use Louisville's 2004 season as part of their evaluation even though Louisville played in CUSA that year. They finished 8th in the BCS rankings and were counted as a BE team.

The BCS criteria is where a league's champion finishes, how many teams finish in the top 25 of the BCS, and where the conference ranks in the BCS. A quick look will show that the MWC is nowhere close to the Big East.

As bad as the BE is this year, it is still sixth in the BCS rankings, ahead of both CUSA and the MWC. It was actually ahead of the MWC last year as well because the MWC, while the top was great, the bottom was terrible. They had three teams finish 90th or below. The BE had one.

In the three criteria, here is how it breaks down for the BE over the last three years

champion's ranking: 26th, 3rd, 12th

overall conference bcs ranking: 6th, 4th, 3rd

number of teams in BCS final top 25: 1, 3, 2

The only area where the MWC is remotely competitive is the last one, and much of that involved Utah and TCU, who are no longer in the league. It appears as though whatever information he's using is wrong....and that's hardly a first for the media these days.

Having said all that, none of this has anything to do with why I think the Big East will keep it's bid. That's the thing. I really just think it has more to do with the system already being set up to favor them.

The Big East asked for a waiver in 2008 and got it. The Mountain West has asked for waivers, and been rejected every time. Does that not tell you something?? That right there is the crux of why I think the BE WILL end up keeping it. That, and they'll use the information above to "justify" it.

[waggy]

Dodd annoys me. I don't read him.

[Xavgrad08]

Geno Auriemma has some thoughts on Notre Dame's role in the conference realignment. http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7127918/connecticut-huskies-geno-auriemma-blames-notre-dame-fighting-irish-big-east-football-issue

[Masterofreality]

The document goes on to say that there is a “low probability” the Big East would retain its automatic BCS bid after 2013. It states what is already known -- that the conference needed a waiver from commissioners to retain BCS membership in 2008. It also says that the Big East is so low in the current qualification standards that it wouldn’t even qualify for a waiver to remain a BCS league at the moment. It concludes the Big East in its current form does not merit BCS inclusion over “the MW/CUSA.”


Aaaaaaaaaaaand so the Big Least decide to turn down a nice fat TV deal with ESPN in 2010 thinking that they would get more.

That is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally smart given all of this info above.

No wonder Syracuse and Pitt jumped...and almost everyone else wants to too.

[xubrew]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand so the Big Least decide to turn down a nice fat TV deal with ESPN in 2010 thinking that they would get more.

That is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally smart given all of this info above.

No wonder Syracuse and Pitt jumped...and almost everyone else wants to too.

Pitt was the most outspoken against signing the deal than anyone else. Kinda funny, really. Everyone else is understandably pissed off.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Missouri to the SEC tomorrow

http://missouri.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1283061

[xudash]

WVU, come on down!

BE, the next torpedo is about to hit the hull.

[GoMuskies]

WVU, come on down!


I REALLY hope it's Louisville.

[paulxu]

I really hope it's both. Plus a 3rd team somewhere.

[Masterofreality]

WVU, come on down!

BE, the next torpedo is about to hit the hull.

Pretty smart that schools like WVU and Louisville voted for the increase in the exit fee from the Big Greased conditional on the joining of Air Force and Navy. They knew that there was no way that Air Force and Navy would agree to join until all the upheaval had settled. That vote was a classic red herring.

Meanwhile SucKS is nowhere in the conversation. HA!

[BBC 08]

I REALLY hope it's Louisville.

You and me both.

[STL_XUfan]

Meanwhile SucKS is nowhere in the conversation. HA!


I wouldn't be so sure of that right now. UC finally hired an AD this weekend, the former executive AD of Mizzou. While Mizzou may be pissing everyone off right now in the BXii, it doesn't mean that UC's new AD doesn't have a rolodex full of the right contacts to try to position UC into a possible spot in the BigXii. I don't think it will happen, but it wouldn't shock me to see the Big Xii grab a couple of teams that included UC and Louisville.

[xubrew]

Missouri to the SEC tomorrow

http://missouri.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1283061

Now where have I heard that before??

I think they're going eventually. It's just that I've never seen a school announce that it is going to announce something as much as Mizzou has announced it will announce it is going to the SEC.

[xudash]

I REALLY hope it's Louisville.

I didn't mean to imply that I am a fan of WVU or favor them for some reason. I noted WVU because it appears to be the consensus pick in the rumor mill.

I'm with Paul on this: why take one when you can have three.

[chico]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand so the Big Least decide to turn down a nice fat TV deal with ESPN in 2010 thinking that they would get more.

That is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally smart given all of this info above.

No wonder Syracuse and Pitt jumped...and almost everyone else wants to too.

I think the Big East and Edinson Volquez must have the same agent.

Missouri needs to make up their minds and be done with it. Once they move and the rest of the dominoes fall it will be basketball's turn and that's when things will get real interesting for us.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Now where have I heard that before??

I think they're going eventually. It's just that I've never seen a school announce that it is going to announce something as much as Mizzou has announced it will announce it is going to the SEC.

Hopefully this time its for real. It seems to be more legit

Its on a rivals site which is usually a great indication and they say

"Three separate sources have told PowerMizzou.com Deaton is expected to inform the Big 12 Conference that Missouri will conditionally withdraw from the league on Monday"

The Big 12 said they want to act 'immediately' if Missouri leaves. I would imagine BYU would join immediately for next year to make it 10 with WVU and Louisville joining in 2014 or whenever the Big East lets them.

Matt_HayesSN
#Missouri to withdraw from Big 12 Monday. bit.ly/q8NdGe

Mizzou2SEC Mizzou Nation
#Missouri is expected to inform the #Big12 of its intentions to withdraw from the conference at today's meeting. Stay tuned... #Mizzou #SEC

[xubrew]

UC will go to the Big 12. Fact

I used to think so. Even though the media wasn't talking about it, when the media speculates about stuff like this they're generally wrong.

But, you don't seem to be right about anything either. Since you think they're going, I'm starting to rething my stance on that.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://sp0.fotolog.com/photo/48/12/52/schwere_traume/1229300416900_f.jpg

What? I didn't even get to sing yet?

[XUmeat]

Some in Big 12 have accepted and seem to be like their fate... Can't say I blame them:

“I’d say West Virginia is the leader in the clubhouse," the school official told Bohls. "I think we’ll come out better than before. I’d rather be with someone who wants to be with our conference than anybody who doesn’t.”


http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/32915206

[xudash]

This is a truly fascinating process at least in the sense that it is interesting to see how different fanbases - with their specific wishes and agendas - perceive what's going on with all the realignment.

Note this post from the Georgetown board, which focuses on an SMU perspective:

Interesting blog post from an SMU fan who puts a spin on the latests rumor...

"I know what is going on at SMU. This 32 team idea is being floated by Britt Banowski, the C-USA commissioner, as part of a last ditch effort to keep SMU, UCF and Houston from leaving. It will never happen and it is NOT being considered bi the Big East. The fact that Banowski has thrown it out there, then leaked that it’s been thrown out does not mean anybody at the Big East is listening.

As for any team from the Big East joining the Big 12, that is unlikely. The Big 12 must field 10 teams minimum next year to fulfill their TV contract obligations. With 9, there are not enough games to fill the contracted slots. The Big East says it will enforce the 27 month notice period, so unless the Big 12 is willing to renegotiate the current TV deal to take less money for 2 years while waiting on a Big East member to become free, the Big 12 will look elsewhere for a member available in 2012."

It is an interesting take because it dispells the ESPN/ACC promulgated rumors about WVU leaving for the Big 12. So THAT'S why the Big East is being so hard over on the 27 month rule. It stops the dominos from falling so quickly because it doesn't help the other conferences in the near term under their current TV contracts. So if Missouri leaves for the SEC, the Big 12 will need another team outside of the Big East to meet their TV obligations.

So the net message is that the Big XII would plug a hole to meet a contractual obligation. In reality, I doubt they would plug a hole with a program they don't find optimal just to plug the hole. Also, I would think they would go to their television partner and seek a temporary modification to the agreement so that it eventually gets done correctly in the eyes of all parties involved. You don't fix a short-term problem with a long-term fix that is weak.

But you won't find a Georgetown "hybrid-crazy fan" or an SMU "get us to the BE fan" thinking along those lines.

[Masterofreality]

Paul Feinbaum on Sirius XM College radio is stating that Mizzou to the SEC is a done deal and they will be placed in the Eastern Division.

The SEC did away with divisions in basketball, however, at least for this year.

[Juice]

Paul Feinbaum on Sirius XM College radio is stating that Mizzou to the SEC is a done deal and they will be placed in the Eastern Division.

The SEC did away with divisions in basketball, however, at least for this year.

Clay Travis predicted that alignment

http://outkickthecoverage.com/tyfoon/site/pages/images/946151004391c36.jpg

[muskienick]

Well, I want Xavier in a conference with schools whose local markets will carry all (or nearly all) the games. That isn't true for all the A10 team. If a team's own city isn't willing to carry the games, that kind of makes it rough to get a decent TV deal, especially if it's your own network or production.

Creighton, Butler and SLU would bring TV revenue. They're also have potential. I can't see how they'd be anything but an asset to a conference.

Whether brew likes it or not, I totally agree with the above post!

[Masterofreality]

Clay Travis predicted that alignment

http://outkickthecoverage.com/tyfoon/site/pages/images/946151004391c36.jpg

Only in College sports can Missouri be east of Alabama.

They should have never stopped teaching geography in school.

[GoMuskies]

Only in College sports can Missouri be east of Alabama.



How about the NFL? Dallas is in the NFC East even though it's west of every single city in the NFC South and North and one of the cities in the NFC West.

[Juice]

Only in College sports can Missouri be east of Alabama.

They should have never stopped teaching geography in school.

I agree that geographically it is stupid, but as far as preserving rivalries and trying to control the balance of the two divisions it does make sense.

[paulxu]

I think they made too much of the balance thing. If they had moved Vandy west, and put Alabama and Auburn in the east, I think they could have retained all the rivalries.

As to the rankings, the average rankings as of today would look like this:

West.................................East

1 LSU............................2 Alabama
10 Tex A &M..................13 South Carolina
14 Arkansas...................21 Georgia
41 Mizzou.......................27 Auburn
54 Vandy........................35 Florida
55 Miss St.......................48 Tennessee
81 Mississippi..................83 Kentucky

Actually, they are fairly well balanced under that grouping.

[SkyWalker]

Only in College sports can Missouri be east of Alabama.

They should have never stopped teaching geography in school.


Maybe thay should name the two divisions Leaders and Legends. ;)

[ford]

"@sbnation: According to the @NewYorkPost, West Virginia is headed to the Big 12."

Let the dominos fall!!!!!

[Juice]

"@sbnation: According to the @NewYorkPost, West Virginia is headed to the Big 12."

Let the dominos fall!!!!!

Here is the article from the Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/wvu_set_to_leave_big_east_for_big_aS3e4cF01Oc4fAyQ 6qlw4O

[BBC 08]

WVU, please take UL with you.

[GoMuskies]

WVU, please take UL with you.

Yeah, if WV leaves Louisville behind, it will be like C-USA all over again....minus all the good teams.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah, if WV leaves Louisville behind, it will be like C-USA all over again....minus all the good teams.

And SucKS can play with itself- with nobody watching.

[xubrew]

I think they made too much of the balance thing. If they had moved Vandy west, and put Alabama and Auburn in the east, I think they could have retained all the rivalries.

As to the rankings, the average rankings as of today would look like this:

West.................................East

1 LSU............................2 Alabama
10 Tex A &M..................13 South Carolina
14 Arkansas...................21 Georgia
41 Mizzou.......................27 Auburn
54 Vandy........................35 Florida
55 Miss St.......................48 Tennessee
81 Mississippi..................83 Kentucky

Actually, they are fairly well balanced under that grouping.

I know it's lopsided, and not considered a huge game of interest outside the area, but Starkville is less than ninety minutes from Tuscaloosa. Mississippi State and Alabama are closer geographically than Auburn and Alabama, and both schools do consider it a rivalry. Alabama and Auburn would not want to play in the East. They both would have voted against including Mizzou if they both had to move.

Auburn v LSU is another BIG rivalry within the region. Up until a few years ago, LSU may have considered Auburn to be their biggest rival.

Basically, I don't think any of the schools would have voted to include Mizzou if it meant breaking up the west. If you ask the fans, they were't too thrilled with including TAMU, and they flat out didn't want Mizzou.

[waggy]

Seems a bit premature that WVU would be invited to the B12 when Mizzou hasn't formally left.

According to Deaton this morning it could take another couple weeks.

[Juice]

http://i.imgur.com/Cf9h6.jpg

[xubrew]

Oral Roberts to leave Summit League and join Southland. Should be announced this afternoon.

The madness continues!!!

[GoMuskies]

Oral Roberts to leave Summit League and join Southland. Should be announced this afternoon.

The madness continues!!!

Summit for Southland? That seems a little odd, though I guess with Valpo out of the mix the Summit has gone downhil a bit. Oakland has been a solid program out of that league, though.

[Muskied]

well, at least there is a conference opening which may accept UC....

[xubrew]

Summit for Southland? That seems a little odd, though I guess with Valpo out of the mix the Summit has gone downhil a bit. Oakland has been a solid program out of that league, though.

I think Oakland wants into the Horizon League. They wanted in a few years back, but the league opted to add Valpo instead. If the HL looks to go out to twelve, Oakland will be a solid candidate.

The Summit League is spread out pretty far, and it consists of schools that have low budgets. That's never a good combination.

[Masterofreality]

Seems a bit premature that WVU would be invited to the B12 when Mizzou hasn't formally left.

According to Deaton this morning it could take another couple weeks.

Word is that the only reason for a delay is to make sure the lawyers hash out the terms of divorce in advance (when, how much exit fee, etc) as opposed to just bolting out like Texas A & M did.

B-12: Mizzou is gone. WVA is in. Any more for now? We'll see.

Big Least: Floundering. Houston and SMU? Come on down, but the league will suck worse, and forget the continuation of the AQ.

[paulxu]

I know it's lopsided, and not considered a huge game of interest outside the area, but Starkville is less than ninety minutes from Tuscaloosa. Mississippi State and Alabama are closer geographically than Auburn and Alabama, and both schools do consider it a rivalry. Alabama and Auburn would not want to play in the East. They both would have voted against including Mizzou if they both had to move.

Auburn v LSU is another BIG rivalry within the region. Up until a few years ago, LSU may have considered Auburn to be their biggest rival.

All of those things would still be possible if Auburn and Alabama went into the East.
Right now Auburn plays 5 games in the west, 3 games in the east, and 4 out of conference games = 12 games.
If they went to the east, they could play 6 eastern games (as SEC goes to 14), still play 3 games with old western rivals, and drop the out of conference play back to 3 games = 12.

[xubrew]

Word is that the only reason for a delay is to make sure the lawyers hash out the terms of divorce in advance (when, how much exit fee, etc) as opposed to just bolting out like Texas A & M did.

B-12: Mizzou is gone. WVA is in. Any more for now? We'll see.

Big Least: Floundering. Houston and SMU? Come on down, but the league will suck worse, and forget the continuation of the AQ.

There goes MOR again. Hijacking our Summit/Southland conference realignment thread.

All kidding aside, I find that to be almost as interesting.

The Big East is getting to a point to where it should strongly consider not sanctioning football, and having whoever is left over just play Indie. I mean, seriously....

UCF was in talks with the BE, and they lose to a winless UAB team, and get creamed by SMU. In fact they've lost four of their last five since entering the BE discussion. I guess it spreads rather quickly.

There was talk of SMU joining, and they got creamed by Southern Miss this past Saturday.

The Big East seems to bring down anyone who associates with it.

[xubrew]

All of those things would still be possible if Auburn and Alabama went into the East.
Right now Auburn plays 5 games in the west, 3 games in the east, and 4 out of conference games = 12 games.
If they went to the east, they could play 6 eastern games (as SEC goes to 14), still play 3 games with old western rivals, and drop the out of conference play back to 3 games = 12.

Or, they could just put Mizzou in the East. That's really the easiest way to make everyone happy. Well, it's the easiest way to make people not quite as unhappy.

I think they'll stick with the format of playing six division games and three crossover games. One crossover game will be a protected rival, and the other two will rotate. That will result in playing teams from the other division twice every six years.

[waggy]

I could see Mizzou doing an about face and staying in the B12. I think the SEC likes/wants them, but ideally they'd rather have a school out of the east such as VTech.

I could also see the B12 just going ahead an pulling the trigger on WVU while Mizzou is in limbo. Built in excuse.

If it goes down like that, the SEC and B12 would then both need at least one more for equal divisions.

[waggy]

Supposedly, there is a meeting Wednesday to discuss the superconference.


Commissioners from the Mountain West Conference and Conference USA are scheduled to meet with the head of the Big East Conference on Wednesday to discuss the formation of one 28- to 32-football team super conference to try to gain automatic Bowl Championship Series status.

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/mountain-west-conference-usa-officials-to-talk-to-big-east-chief-about-joining-forces-132528493.html

[GoMuskies]

Ridiculous as this notion sounds, I actually think it makes some sense. You have five "real" BCS leagues (well, 4 plus the ACC), and then a single BCS bid for "everyone else". The "everyone else" is a bit better off in that there is some automatic access to the BCS games, and there's generally going to be at least one team from outside the bigger leagues that is as good as one or more of the BCS league champs (TCU the last cople of years, Boise State quite a few times, Utah a time or two, Houston this year, etc.). It's not exactly ideal for the Louisvilles, Cincinnatis, USFs and UConns who were used to being in an auto-bid conference, but it would be a huge improvement for everyone in C-USA and the MWC.

[_LH]

I'm more inclined to believe the BE will survive over the B12, but then again if Oklahoma stays, the Big 12 can push on.

The message board community on the Oklahoma boards tend to think they will end up in the Pac 12. Dash is right. Things should start happening pretty quickly.

Also, VT to the SEC with A&M is still the strongest rumor right now

Jimmy,

When are KU and KSU going to the BE?

[xavierj]

Okay so with a super conference for football, what happens to the basketball only schools currently in the Big East? Is the super conference just for football? If so then the Basketball only schools would not get a dime of the BCS football money.

[GoMuskies]

Okay so with a super conference for football, what happens to the basketball only schools currently in the Big East? Is the super conference just for football? If so then the Basketball only schools would not get a dime of the BCS football money.

They don't get a dime of the BCS football money now. But they would get to stay in a basketball conference with Louisville and UConn and would not have to welcome Central Florida, Houston and East Carolina into the fold.

[LA Muskie]

They don't get a dime of the BCS football money now. But they would get to stay in a basketball conference with Louisville and UConn and would not have to welcome Central Florida, Houston and East Carolina into the fold.
This. The "SuperConference" would be the same as the current plan for the MWC and CUSA to "merge" for football purposes only. Just even bigger. No other sports are affected. It's really more of an alliance than a conference.

[waggy]

I don't know how you get 2 or 4 divisions out of 3 conferences except that it becomes a totally separate entity. It would need a commissioner, management, etc.

Othewise I would think the 3 conferences would remain relatively unchanged for all other sports.

[BMoreX]

They don't get a dime of the BCS football money now. But they would get to stay in a basketball conference with Louisville and UConn and would not have to welcome Central Florida, Houston and East Carolina into the fold.


This. The "SuperConference" would be the same as the current plan for the MWC and CUSA to "merge" for football purposes only. Just even bigger. No other sports are affected. It's really more of an alliance than a conference.

So what are your opinions of basketball Big East? Expand or stay the same? If they expand, would UC block Xavier?

[Masterofreality]

WVA is gone to the Big 12:

Charleston Daily Mail (http://dailymail.com/News/breakingnews/201110250055)

[GoMuskies]

They'd have 13 teams, right? Louisville, UConn, Cincinnati, Rutgers, USF, Notre Dame, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul. Maybe they'd expand by one? I don't think UC would want Xavier around, but I'm not sure who else would make any sense. Maybe UMass (for the optical illusion that you somehow gain the Boston market by adding UMass).

[SM#24]

The Big East seems to bring down anyone who associates with it.
And yet, we so badly want in :D

[SM#24]

They'd have 13 teams, right? Louisville, UConn, Cincinnati, Rutgers, USF, Notre Dame, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul. Maybe they'd expand by one? I don't think UC would want Xavier around, but I'm not sure who else would make any sense. Maybe UMass (for the optical illusion that you somehow gain the Boston market by adding UMass).

I think UC would let X in before UConn lets UMass in.

[waggy]

With a BCS bid available, however remote, Temple could be a candidate for CUSA I would guess. This is assuming that a condition of being in the alliance is that you're a member of one of the three conferences in other sports.

[SM#24]

Supposedly, there is a meeting Wednesday to discuss the superconference.


http://www.lvrj.com/sports/mountain-west-conference-usa-officials-to-talk-to-big-east-chief-about-joining-forces-132528493.html

There would be nothing "super" about this conference. I'll refer to this one as the mega-conference.

[Masterofreality]

They'd have 13 teams, right? Louisville, UConn, Cincinnati, Rutgers, USF, Notre Dame, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul. Maybe they'd expand by one? I don't think UC would want Xavier around, but I'm not sure who else would make any sense. Maybe UMass (for the optical illusion that you somehow gain the Boston market by adding UMass).

You know what? Screw it.

That league keeps decimating. Eventually, soon enough, UCon, Louisville and Rutgers will go elsewhere for football. No body will accept them as partial members. Thay'll have to go full. Who knows who would want SucKS with their 35,000 seat stadium that they can't sell out? Then you're down to 10.

With the departure of Pitt, WVA, Syracuse, the recruiting allure just got a lot lower for the rest. ESPN is already pissed at the Big Least and is already transferring programming emphasis to the ACC. The Big Least is dropping in stature daily.

I'm almost of the mind now that the A-10 should be strengthened as much as possible and let's go toe to toe with the Big Least leftovers. If the bottom feeders can ever get cleaned up, the A-10 is a viable place to stay.

[waggy]

I'm almost of the mind now that the A-10 should be strengthened as much as possible and let's go toe to toe with the Big Least leftovers. If the bottom feeders can ever get cleaned up, the A-10 is a viable place to stay.

I agree, but I do think they should try to lure Butler. However I don't know how much coin Butler would have to walk away from in leaving the Horizon.

[Ledgewood]

You know what? Screw it.

That league keeps decimating. Eventually, soon enough, UCon, Louisville and Rutgers will go elsewhere for football. No body will accept them as partial members. Thay'll have to go full. Who knows who would want SucKS with their 35,000 seat stadium that they can't sell out? Then you're down to 10.

With the departure of Pitt, WVA, Syracuse, the recruiting allure just got a lot lower for the rest. ESPN is already pissed at the Big Least and is already transferring programming emphasis to the ACC. The Big Least is dropping in stature daily.

I'm almost of the mind now that the A-10 should be strengthened as much as possible and let's go toe to toe with the Big Least leftovers. If the bottom feeders can ever get cleaned up, the A-10 is a viable place to stay.

Agreed. The Big East can kick rocks. We'll do just fine in the A10.

[GoMuskies]

With the departure of Pitt, WVA, Syracuse, the recruiting allure just got a lot lower for the rest.

I think Syracuse is the only relevant departure in this respect. I don't think any basketball recruit feels like the Big East is a lesser league now because Pitt and WV are gone. They had good teams, but I don't think many people grew up dreaming of playing in a basketball league with Pitt and WV.

[Masterofreality]

I agree, but I do think they should try to lure Butler. However I don't know how much coin Butler would have to walk away from in leaving the Horizon.

Well, when Temple leaves, and they will because eventually "Nova won't bee able to stop it anymore, Butler becomes a very viable inclusion.

VCU (eh, maybe but Richmond would not be happy) & Old Dominion would be too. George Mason probably not because of GW.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not the least bit interestedin VCU or GM (okay, maybe GM a little bit). ODU is an interesting thought.

But the A-10 needs to shed teams before adding anyone new, and I don't see that happening.

[GoMuskies]

And I don't ever see Temple to the Big East. They just don't add anything.

[waggy]

I don't know how Butler is convinced the A10 is an upgrade, especially if they lose money in walking from substantial NCAA credits and having to invest in other sports.

The A10 needs to find a media partner willing to invest in the conference.

[Masterofreality]

And I don't ever see Temple to the Big East. They just don't add anything.

One word:

Football.

The Big Least is a whore to whoever inserts the oblong spheriod.

[GoMuskies]

Temple football is horribad, though. They have a number of better options than Temple for that.

[Masterofreality]

Temple football is horribad, though. They have a number of better options than Temple for that.

What? UCF who lost to UAB? Horriffic Memphis?

OK, Houston and SMU, come on down, errrrr, up....errrrrrr over.

[Muskied]

I don't know how Butler is convinced the A10 is an upgrade, especially if they lose money in walking from substantial NCAA credits and having to invest in other sports.

The A10 needs to find a media partner willing to invest in the conference.

2 words-STUDENT RECRUITING

There is way more money in the students/alumni/academic programs than there are in athletics..EXPECIALLY for a school like Butler. I imagine they have designs to expand their exposure/student recruiting especially to larger markets, and a conference like the Atlantic 10 would do that, especially with better TV exposure. They still have a presence in the midwest (Illinois, Indiana, Ohio), and would go further east into NJ/NY, Carolinas, Virginia, Pennsylvania. And since their new President is from Villanova, and may have a business plan on recruiting east of Indiana and leveraging those alumni.

For some of these schools, everyone is thinking it's all about football. And when their conference isn't changing that much geographically...it may be. However for 95%, it's about repositioning yourself in the marketplace, and leveraging athletics for what really makes their $$$$.

I believe they would be HIGHLY INVESTED in a conference like the A10.

[GoMuskies]

What? UCF who lost to UAB? Horriffic Memphis?

OK, Houston and SMU, come on down, errrrr, up....errrrrrr over.

All four of those are better options than Temple. Well, maybe not Memphis. At least the basketball side might be pleased with Memphis.

[SixFig]

The crying sounds you hear is not STL fans weeping but ESPN as it's golden child Big East is eaten by multiple big bad wolves.

ESPN has been trying to spin conference realignment news for months so as to make it seem like the Big East will survive. Notice how just yesterday they had an article saying that Mizzou to the SEC was a longshot. Now that article is gone, and now they are resigned to WV leaving. Oh the horror!

[BBC 08]

The crying sounds you hear is not STL fans weeping.....

Nope, I'm still crying.

[GoMuskies]

Nope, I'm still crying.

Louisville getting fu%&ed in this whole realignment thing can't be helping your waterworks, either. I'm not pleased.

[BBC 08]

Nope, not at all.

[xsteve1]

The A10 is basically the equivalent of Big East football. I want X to play with teams that are committed to trying to win National Championships. I'd much rather play the Villanova's, Georgetowns and St. John's of the world than the LaSalle's, Fordham's and St. Bonny's.

[paulxu]

Louisville getting fu%&ed in this whole realignment thing can't be helping your waterworks, either. I'm not pleased.

Go, you've gotta believe the Big 12 will eventually get back to 12. I would think that would mean Louisville.

[GoMuskies]

Hope so. But I'd feel a lot better if Louisville was in and WV had to wait it out.

[SixFig]

The Big East just got Pittsnogled!

[STL_XUfan]

The Big East just got Pittsnogled!

It took 1,884 posts, but this one just nailed it. Good work sir.

[Masterofreality]

And I don't ever see Temple to the Big East. They just don't add anything.


All four of those are better options than Temple. Well, maybe not Memphis. At least the basketball side might be pleased with Memphis.

Here you go:

@PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
I am hearing Memphis is gaining traction in Big East, thanks to BE hoops concerns, to replace WVU. In convo with Temple.

Face it folks. XU is not going to a league with Georgetown & Marquette. The Big Least will whore themselves out and live on at the dirty street corner of football. They'll be ugly, but they will still survive on scraps like UCF.

XU's best option is to win a National Championship and hope that the rest of the A-10 gets their freaking act together to follow.

[DC Muskie]

Louisville getting fu%&ed in this whole realignment thing can't be helping your waterworks, either. I'm not pleased.

Why aren't they a serious option for the Big 12?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Here you go:



XU's best option is to win a National Championship and hope that the rest of the A-10 gets their freaking act together to follow.

Ya, but I have a hard time believing the A10 will ever get their act together.

[Masterofreality]

Now Rutgers wants to jump ship as soon as they can:

Rutgers very nervous (http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/rutgers_athletics_faces_uncert.html?utm_source=twi tterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[QueensbridgeMF]

Wierd idea that's never gonna happen:
The A-10 should expand to 20 without shedding anyone then the schedule is the top ten teams play an 18 game rr schedule within themselves as do the lower 10. For the next season it is an EPL style relegation with 2/3 worst/top teams from each group moving up or down. Just a wierd thought I just had.

[BMoreX]

Wierd idea that's never gonna happen:
The A-10 should expand to 20 without shedding anyone then the schedule is the top ten teams play an 18 game rr schedule within themselves as do the lower 10. For the next season it is an EPL style relegation with 2/3 worst/top teams from each group moving up or down. Just a wierd thought I just had.

I actually think the soccer relegation system is a great idea for college sports.

[waggy]

Unreal. I posted earlier today the LVRJ story. Now this..

Big East denies meeting with Mountain West and Conference USA about football super conference.


We hate to be a party pooper here, but the Big East has strongly denied a story first reported by the Las Vegas Journal that its commissioner, John Marinatto, would meet with the commissioners of the Mountain West and Conference USA in New York Wednesday to discuss the creation of a nationwide football super conference of 28 to 32 teams, with the goal of gaining an automatic BCS qualifying bid.

"We are not part of any meeting with those two conferences,'' Big East spokesman John Paquette told the Daily News, in no uncertain terms.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported the meeting would take place on Wednesday, and that Mountain West commissioner Craig Thompson and Conference USA commissioner Britton Banowsky would meet with Marinatto in New York.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/2011/10/big-east-denies-meeting-with-mountain-west-and-conference-usa-about-football-super-con

[paulxu]

Now Rutgers wants to jump ship as soon as they can:


That's interesting in that article about ND. If they went to Big 10, they are saying Rutgers (not UConn) would likely fit to balance at 14. That might leave UConn on the outside looking in.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I actually think the soccer relegation system is a great idea for college sports.

A Kansas Jayhawk fan blog, Rock Chalk Talk, took a stab at this idea: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2011/10/6/2472351/kansas-basketball-50-in-50-no-26-radically-re-imagining-college

[xavierj]

That's interesting in that article about ND. If they went to Big 10, they are saying Rutgers (not UConn) would likely fit to balance at 14. That might leave UConn on the outside looking in.

Well Notre Dame will not be joining the Big 10 for football so that is out the window.

[QueensbridgeMF]

I actually think the soccer relegation system is a great idea for college sports.

just a thought as a way to reduce the influence of Fordham and the lesser programs. Of course it would never get voted in. We can not limit ideas at this point or we are screwed

[Muskie in dayton]

Wierd idea that's never gonna happen:
The A-10 should expand to 20 without shedding anyone then the schedule is the top ten teams play an 18 game rr schedule within themselves as do the lower 10. For the next season it is an EPL style relegation with 2/3 worst/top teams from each group moving up or down. Just a wierd thought I just had.

Good idea. Let's do something like this now with the 14 teams in the A-10. Except the top 10 teams play in one division and the bottom 4 in another, the schools only play within their division, and there is no chance of the bottom four teams moving up - ever.

That would take care of the problem.

[paulxu]

Well Notre Dame will not be joining the Big 10 for football so that is out the window.

Sooner (I think) than later, this has got to change. If money is driving the majority of conference re-alignments, and BCS money/TV deals in particular, it's got to reach a point where the following is a possibility:

ND wants to place it's non-football sports in a conference while remaining indy in football.
Big conferences say to ND...why should we do that? You are hogging up a possible BCS spot with your current deal, so if you want in you've got to bring your football too. Pressure is building to have a viable place for their other sports as the BE loses ground every day.

Seems to me the power is shifting slowly to the big conferences in that negotiation over time. Of course I also picked X to be in the Sweet 16 last year.

[Titanxman04]

Sooner (I think) than later, this has got to change. If money is driving the majority of conference re-alignments, and BCS money/TV deals in particular, it's got to reach a point where the following is a possibility:

ND wants to place it's non-football sports in a conference while remaining indy in football.
Big conferences say to ND...why should we do that? You are hogging up a possible BCS spot with your current deal, so if you want in you've got to bring your football too. Pressure is building to have a viable place for their other sports as the BE loses ground every day.

Seems to me the power is shifting slowly to the big conferences in that negotiation over time. Of course I also picked X to be in the Sweet 16 last year.

I respect you. I want to split a pitcher of beer with you. I find your banter on here intelligent and often humorous.

However, I just don't agree with you.

ND is still a powerful school, and there is absolutely no way in the world that the Irish will merge their football program. They'd be losing money and knowing how Catholic educational institutions work, thats non-negotiable. There's still a lot of power of having ND's other sports in your conference...mostly because Notre Dame wins in a lot of other sports outside of football. Basketball is always a tough game, with their women's team recently favored to win the Big East this year (thought I saw that on ESPN). Their lacrosse team recently won a national championship. Their softball team is apparently pretty good and so is their hockey team. Throw in the fact that ND has a market throughout the country (cannot put a price on that), there's just too much value in ND outside of football.

The big conferences have to ask ND. Not asking them just seems like they aren't trying. But Notre Dame will be courted, listen to what they have to offer, and even try out that $500 bottle of scotch that they're offered. But the day ND moves their football program into another conference, is the day I stop staring at a woman's chest from afar. Thats how confident I am...

And if they end up joining a conference...I'm going to amend my last statement, because I'll never stop staring at a woman's chest...especially when the side-boob haircut occurs, God willing.

Cheer, cheer for ol' Notre Dame.

[SM#24]

Face it folks. XU is not going to a league with Georgetown & Marquette. The Big Least will whore themselves out and live on at the dirty street corner of football. They'll be ugly, but they will still survive on scraps like UCF.



As long as that whore keeps making money, the pimps (school presidents ? TV networks ?) will be happy.

Big East is now down to one original footbal member (out of eight), Rutgers; who when BE football was formed, was a football-only member.

[xavierj]

Sooner (I think) than later, this has got to change. If money is driving the majority of conference re-alignments, and BCS money/TV deals in particular, it's got to reach a point where the following is a possibility:

ND wants to place it's non-football sports in a conference while remaining indy in football.
Big conferences say to ND...why should we do that? You are hogging up a possible BCS spot with your current deal, so if you want in you've got to bring your football too. Pressure is building to have a viable place for their other sports as the BE loses ground every day.

Seems to me the power is shifting slowly to the big conferences in that negotiation over time. Of course I also picked X to be in the Sweet 16 last year.

nd will not join a conference for football for two reasons. First they still make a ton of money as an independent football team. Second they are unique. If they join the big ten they lose the only thing that keeps them different and the become just another big ten football team and hey lose the novelty. Nd wants to be different and I think they feel they will lose the only thing they have left to sell. Right now they can schedule whoever they want. Join a conference and they become perdue. How do you sell that nationally?

[Titanxman04]

nd will not join a conference for football for two reasons. First they still make a ton of money as an independent football team. Second they are unique. If they join the big ten they lose the only thing that keeps them different and the become just another big ten football team and hey lose the novelty. Nd wants to be different and I think they feel they will lose the only thing they have left to sell. Right now they can schedule whoever they want. Join a conference and they become perdue. How do you sell that nationally?

Agree with this...even if it is "Purdue" ;)

ND gets games all over the country all year long. Thats something they're able to do that no other team can.

It's in ND's nature to be a NATIONAL brand. They were the first program in history to have their games nationally broadcast. How else are you able to play Stanford and USC, Michigan and MSU, the service academies, and several other programs littered throughout the country?

ND's market is unique. While based in Indiana, they have a national market. Again, you cannot put a price on that.

[SM#24]

Sooner (I think) than later, this has got to change. If money is driving the majority of conference re-alignments, and BCS money/TV deals in particular, it's got to reach a point where the following is a possibility:

ND wants to place it's non-football sports in a conference while remaining indy in football.
Big conferences say to ND...why should we do that? You are hogging up a possible BCS spot with your current deal, so if you want in you've got to bring your football too. Pressure is building to have a viable place for their other sports as the BE loses ground every day.

Seems to me the power is shifting slowly to the big conferences in that negotiation over time. Of course I also picked X to be in the Sweet 16 last year.


I respect you. I want to split a pitcher of beer with you. I find your banter on here intelligent and often humorous.

However, I just don't agree with you.

ND is still a powerful school, and there is absolutely no way in the world that the Irish will merge their football program. They'd be losing money and knowing how Catholic educational institutions work, thats non-negotiable. There's still a lot of power of having ND's other sports in your conference...mostly because Notre Dame wins in a lot of other sports outside of football. Basketball is always a tough game, with their women's team recently favored to win the Big East this year (thought I saw that on ESPN). Their lacrosse team recently won a national championship. Their softball team is apparently pretty good and so is their hockey team. Throw in the fact that ND has a market throughout the country (cannot put a price on that), there's just too much value in ND outside of football.

The big conferences have to ask ND. Not asking them just seems like they aren't trying. But Notre Dame will be courted, listen to what they have to offer, and even try out that $500 bottle of scotch that they're offered. But the day ND moves their football program into another conference, is the day I stop staring at a woman's chest from afar. Thats how confident I am...

And if they end up joining a conference...I'm going to amend my last statement, because I'll never stop staring at a woman's chest...especially when the side-boob haircut occurs, God willing.

Cheer, cheer for ol' Notre Dame.

Have to disagree Titan. ND brings some value as a non-football member. Yes, they have a national following, and bring some level of "prestige" or "notoriety", but at the end of the day, all their other sports do not provide any real value ($). I know many ND fans and ND alum, and they follow their basketball team (forget about the other sports) with the same level of passion as you see in the SEC. It's all about football.

I don't see the ACC or B10 ever letting them in without football; those conferences will not abandon their "all sports, equal revenue sharing" principles.
The fact that their Olympic sports are generally successful doesn't matter much, also, hockey and lax are irrelevant because those sports do not follow the traditional conference setup.

ND will join a conference when they cannot get a better football deal on their own. Now that day may never come. In the meantime, they will find a landing spot for its other sports, but any conference with a significant football makeup will demand football considerations. If ND is not willing to give any, then they will be forced to look at non-football conferences.

[GoMuskies]

ND will likely just stay with the Big East. Why would they switch?

[bleedXblue]

If ND keeps losing games an underperforming the day may come when NBC isnt willing to shell out big bucks for their games.

Brian Kelly isn't coaching a mid level Big East school anymore. This isnt the MAC.

He has this year and next to get this thing turned around or ND will cast him aside and continue to coaching carousel thats plagued them since they stupidly fired Lou Holtz.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If ND keeps losing games an underperforming the day may come when NBC isnt willing to shell out big bucks for their games.

Brian Kelly isn't coaching a mid level Big East school anymore. This isnt the MAC.

He has this year and next to get this thing turned around or ND will cast him aside and continue to coaching carousel thats plagued them since they stupidly fired Lou Holtz.

In addition to this, there is so much uncertainty among schools of the future of college football.

Will the BCS be around much longer? Are the big conferences ultimately going to end up going to 16? Will there be a plus 1 playoff system?

As ND continues to seriously look at the ACC for football as reported, in the meantime it is also seriously considering moving its non-football sports out of the Big East into the Big 12 according to Orangebloods.

I personally don't think they will move football into a conference unless its absolutely clear that they will need to(since every conference would welcome them with open arms). However, they may decide to be proactive in this whole ordeal

[Titanxman04]

If ND keeps losing games an underperforming the day may come when NBC isnt willing to shell out big bucks for their games.

Brian Kelly isn't coaching a mid level Big East school anymore. This isnt the MAC.

He has this year and next to get this thing turned around or ND will cast him aside and continue to coaching carousel thats plagued them since they stupidly fired Lou Holtz.

NBC has a whole television studio literally on campus. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

As for non-revenue sports, it is what it is. But simply having ND in your conference for said sports, brings about national recognition. Maybe not too much, but Notre Dame is still a brand that everyone knows.

ND doesn't have to join a conference though. They keep everything they make. Thats unreal. They sell out every game and bring about a following every time they step on the field.

[SM#24]

NBC has a whole television studio literally on campus. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

As for non-revenue sports, it is what it is. But simply having ND in your conference for said sports, brings about national recognition. Maybe not too much, but Notre Dame is still a brand that everyone knows.

ND doesn't have to join a conference though. They keep everything they make. Thats unreal. They sell out every game and bring about a following every time they step on the field.

I don't know the exact numbers, but the "they keep everything they make" disparity is lessening by the day, and actually may have been overtaken by the B10.
In the last BCS deal, they made a siginificant concession. They do not get $17.5m all to themselves. Their payment is considerably less (don't know the actual amount).

The NBC deal (or whoever else may jump into the bidding in the future) will be determined by the ratings, which continue to go down.

[Titanxman04]

I don't know the exact numbers, but the "they keep everything they make" disparity is lessening by the day, and actually may have been overtaken by the B10.
In the last BCS deal, they made a siginificant concession. They do not get $17.5m all to themselves. Their payment is considerably less (don't know the actual amount).

The NBC deal (or whoever else may jump into the bidding in the future) will be determined by the ratings, which continue to go down.

Hasn't NBC ALWAYS been with ND? I'm pretty sure when they first started doing national radio broadcasts of their games, NBC was the ones who did it.

Kind of thought NBC and ND went together like the football team and their gold paint helmets... oh...wait...

[Founding Father]

Any chance the B12 invites Louisville as the 11th member and then asks Boise St. to join as the 12th but as a football only member and then asks ND to join as a non football member?

[LA Muskie]

In the meantime, they will find a landing spot for its other sports, but any conference with a significant football makeup will demand football considerations. If ND is not willing to give any, then they will be forced to look at non-football conferences.
ND talks the talk, but if put to the test they would stay independent in football and join (or remain in) a "lesser" conference for its Olympic sports. They know where their bread is buttered. They're not sacrificing their football independence for their Olympic sports (nor should they). The only way they join a conference for football is if they lose their preferential place in the BCS.

[BMoreX]

Any chance the B12 invites Louisville as the 11th member and then asks Boise St. to join as the 12th but as a football only member and then asks ND to join as a non football member?

I think it's plausible. I thought they could do this with BYU too.

[Masterofreality]

Any chance the B12 invites Louisville as the 11th member and then asks Boise St. to join as the 12th but as a football only member and then asks ND to join as a non football member?

Here is what is REALLY comical.

Slick Rick Pitino last night was quoted as saying that the Big Least should go after Memphis and Temple for football and basketball to "solidify" the league.

Now today, Louisville is trying to shove West Virginia off the Big 12 lifeboat, as per Pete Thamel, with a late push to join the league and abandon the BE.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Just filed to NYT: After being told it was accepted to Big12, WVU in holding pattern. Its "50-50" and "too close to call" with Lville.

Now the Big Least members are trying to cut each others throats. Hilarious!!!!

[dc_x]

Now it's being reported that WVU is not a lock to move to the B12. It's 50/50 between WVU and Louisville. Apparently, WVU makes more financial sense, but some in the B12 don't like the long travel to WVU for their "student-athletes".

[SM#24]

Hasn't NBC ALWAYS been with ND? I'm pretty sure when they first started doing national radio broadcasts of their games, NBC was the ones who did it.

Kind of thought NBC and ND went together like the football team and their gold paint helmets... oh...wait...

I thought for years it was Mutual Broadcasting that did the radio. Anyway, nothing is forever, if Fox or Any other network out bid NBC, I could see ND switching.

[Founding Father]

Now it's being reported that WVU is not a lock to move to the B12. It's 50/50 between WVU and Louisville. Apparently, WVU makes more financial sense, but some in the B12 don't like the long travel to WVU for their "student-athletes".

Just take them both and BYU and call it a day.

[xu95]

Agree with this...even if it is "Purdue" ;)



Maybe not. He could have been comparing them to chicken. :rolleyes:

xu95

[xudash]

Here is what is REALLY comical.

Slick Rick Pitino last night was quoted as saying that the Big Least should go after Memphis and Temple for football and basketball to "solidify" the league.

Now today, Louisville is trying to shove West Virginia off the Big 12 lifeboat, as per Pete Thamel, with a late push to join the league and abandon the BE.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Just filed to NYT: After being told it was accepted to Big12, WVU in holding pattern. Its "50-50" and "too close to call" with Lville.

Now the Big Least members are trying to cut each others throats. Hilarious!!!!

Humans and panic do not a good combination make.

[SkyWalker]

Maybe not. He could have been comparing them to chicken. :rolleyes:

xu95

Broiler Up!

:D

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=Titanxman04;292029]Agree with this...even if it is "Purdue" ;)



That is what happens when I type with my phone.

[Titanxman04]

[QUOTE=Titanxman04;292029]Agree with this...even if it is "Purdue" ;)



That is what happens when I type with my phone.

Haha. Stupid "auto-correct". Professor Titan will forgive.

[xcellentx]

All this ND stuff assumes that they are and will make more money staying indy, but that is not necessarily the case. Big Ten members already make more from TV. Can you imagine the next Big Ten TV deal if ND joins? Do you really think they would make less money from TV from that deal? ND's potential BCS money is much lower than it was at the start. Can you imagine the money and rating brought in from a ND OSU Big Ten championship game? I'm not saying that ND is joining a conference soon, but they have to be seriously thinking about it, because their portion of the pie is getting smaller

[GoMuskies]

Here is what is REALLY comical.

Slick Rick Pitino last night was quoted as saying that the Big Least should go after Memphis and Temple for football and basketball to "solidify" the league.

Now today, Louisville is trying to shove West Virginia off the Big 12 lifeboat, as per Pete Thamel, with a late push to join the league and abandon the BE.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Just filed to NYT: After being told it was accepted to Big12, WVU in holding pattern. Its "50-50" and "too close to call" with Lville.

Now the Big Least members are trying to cut each others throats. Hilarious!!!!

Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino aren't the same person. Jurich's job is to look out for Louisville's interests (and getting to the Big 12 ahead of WV is certainly in Louisville's best interest). Pitino's job is to look out for Pitino (15 seconds at a time).

[bleedXblue]

WVU pulls the trigger on the B12 invite only to be told......NO. You have to wait and the invite might not come.

Classic !

Big Easteners can't wait to get out.

[SM#24]

"I understand what we're doing for football, but the Big East core is inner-city basketball, and Memphis and Temple fit that core," Pitino said. "They are everything we need. We have to get back to our core."

I find this quote pretty funny. First off, the BE core did not include Louisville, and secondly, they are only in the conference because of football.

[GoMuskies]

One thing's for sure: the Louisville/WV football game is going to be U-G-L-Y a week from Saturday. WV fans always suck, but they are going to be extra nasty given the latest turn of events. Any Louisville fans thinking of making that trip should reconsider.

[Masterofreality]

It just keeps getting more hilarious by the hour.

My Gawd. How many slugs does it take to the Big Least cadaver before the zombie finally dies?

WVA vs Louisville off the field (http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32950632)

[Muskie]

MOR what will you do when the Big East finally does go away?

[BBC 08]

Shit just got real:


PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Rockefeller: "“The Big 12 picked WVU on the strength of its program -- period. Now the media reports that poli… (cont) deck.ly/~loPlE
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
More Manchin: "Then I believe that there should be an investigation in the U.S. Senate."
5 minutes ago

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Manchin: "If a US Senator has done anything inappropriate or unethical to interfere with a decision that the Big 12 had already made...."
5 minutes ago

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
WV Senator Joe Manchin just released a statement and so did Sen Jay Rockerfeller. Realignment takes a whole new twist.

[Masterofreality]

MOR what will you do when the Big East finally does go away?

The same as when BeelzeBob was finally fired. I'll spend a lot less time on basketball messageboards. :rolleyes:

[xubrew]

Okay, time to catch up on some reading.....


I don't know how you get 2 or 4 divisions out of 3 conferences except that it becomes a totally separate entity. It would need a commissioner, management, etc.

Othewise I would think the 3 conferences would remain relatively unchanged for all other sports.

Craig Thompson is pretty much calling the shots. Getting a BCS bid is part of the motivation, but I believe the bigger motivation is to get the MTN Network nationally distributed. CUSA better be careful. They have a history of not reading over things carefully, and recently settled a lawsuit with ESPN. Affiliating with CUSA will likelty get the MTN more distribution, and then make the network (and therefore the conference) more money. The question is how is that going to be shared?? The other question is whether or not CUSA think to ask how the revenue will be shared before it's too late.



Sooner (I think) than later, this has got to change. If money is driving the majority of conference re-alignments, and BCS money/TV deals in particular, it's got to reach a point where the following is a possibility:

ND wants to place it's non-football sports in a conference while remaining indy in football.
Big conferences say to ND...why should we do that? You are hogging up a possible BCS spot with your current deal, so if you want in you've got to bring your football too. Pressure is building to have a viable place for their other sports as the BE loses ground every day.

Seems to me the power is shifting slowly to the big conferences in that negotiation over time. Of course I also picked X to be in the Sweet 16 last year.

The thing is, ND has already accomplished this. I think they're sitting pretty right now. The Big East membership is still at thirteen, and that includes Notre Dame as full members. The schools without football teams probably aren't going anywhere, nor or they going to give ND any sort of ultimatum in regards to football.



ND will likely just stay with the Big East. Why would they switch?

Completely agree.



If ND keeps losing games an underperforming the day may come when NBC isnt willing to shell out big bucks for their games.

Brian Kelly isn't coaching a mid level Big East school anymore. This isnt the MAC.

He has this year and next to get this thing turned around or ND will cast him aside and continue to coaching carousel thats plagued them since they stupidly fired Lou Holtz.

NBC will shell out the big bucks regardless of what ND's record is so long as people tune in....and as of now people are still watching. Any conference would accept ND at the drop of a hat right now. So would NBC. Even though their wins have dwindled, for whatever reason their popularity doesn't seem like it has. Notre Dame is still the second most profitable football program in the nation behind Texas. The idea that they'll get left out in the cold if they don't join a conference is....well...lets just say I don't agree with those who think that. I've said this before, but I think Notre Dame might be the most sensible people in this whole mess.



"I understand what we're doing for football, but the Big East core is inner-city basketball, and Memphis and Temple fit that core," Pitino said. "They are everything we need. We have to get back to our core."

I find this quote pretty funny. First off, the BE core did not include Louisville, and secondly, they are only in the conference because of football.

The Big East needed football teams, but it's their basketball that made them appealing to ND, Saint John's, Georgetown, Nova, etc. Without it, those schools probalby wouldn't have voted to include them.

[BMoreX]

McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
Could be fatal to Big East RT @ChuckCarltonDMN: Source: Big 12 might
consider adding Louisville AND West Virginia to go to 11

The madness continues...

[waggy]

Is there a chance they could vote to dissolve the football side of the conference? I've read on the internet before that most conferences have a mechanism for this. Obviously with the Zombie being a hybrid, this might not be an option.

[GoMuskies]

If they get down to Cincinnati, USF, Rutgers and UConn, what other choice do they have? Navy might consider joining for football only, but Air Force and Soise have it better in the MWC. Houston, UCF, SMU, Temple and whoever else they're thinking about are better off staying in their own conferences and trying to pick off UC, USF, UConn and Rutgers. C-USA basketball would be the real deal if you add those four (to go along with Memphis).

[waggy]

Plus, either the B12 or SEC, depending on what happens with Missouri, would still be at an odd number of teams.

[Masterofreality]

Is there a chance they could vote to dissolve the football side of the conference? I've read on the internet before that most conferences have a mechanism for this. Obviously with the Zombie being a hybrid, this might not be an option.

If they "dissolve" the football side, then what happens to the NCAA basketball credits built up by the football schools like UCon? There's some money there- which is the primary reason why the Big Zombie is holding to the 27 month period before the schools can leave.

The Big Least is not letting anybody go early. This will go on until the end of 2013. I don't know what happens with the 27 month period ends and its the basketball mid season.

[waggy]

If they "dissolve" the football side, then what happens to the NCAA basketball credits built up by the football schools like UCon? There's some money there- which is the primary reason why the Big Zombie is holding to the 27 month period before the schools can leave.

The Big Least is not letting anybody go early. This will go on until the end of 2013. I don't know what happens with the 27 month period ends and its the basketball mid season.

Well I think the 27 month exit timeline was aimed at the football schools and is about the auto BCS bid. There was never any fear that any of the BBall only schools were going to split.

But you are right that this being a hybrid, and that the bball entity will continue on, it's not like a normal complete dissolution of a conference, where all members go their own way.

[STL_XUfan]

It just keeps getting more hilarious by the hour.

My Gawd. How many slugs does it take to the Big Least cadaver before the zombie finally dies?

WVA vs Louisville off the field (http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32950632)

How the hell does the Big Xii watch the giant dog and pony legal show with the SEC talking about A&M and Missouri and not come to the realization, "Oh hey, maybe we shouldn't publicly say we are adding WVU until they withdraw from the Big East so we don't have to deal with being sued by the remaining Big East members." I bet WVU is still being added, and all of the statements today were CYA press releases so it doesn't look like the Big Xii poached WVU from the Big East.

[Muskie]

The same as when BeelzeBob was finally fired. I'll spend a lot less time on basketball messageboards. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry that's not an option.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

The same as when BeelzeBob was finally fired. I'll spend a lot less time on basketball messageboards. :rolleyes:

Nope. This whole football show is timed to wrap up when we tip off for our first game. MOR isn't going anywhere.

[xavierj]

If they get down to Cincinnati, USF, Rutgers and UConn, what other choice do they have? Navy might consider joining for football only, but Air Force and Soise have it better in the MWC. Houston, UCF, SMU, Temple and whoever else they're thinking about are better off staying in their own conferences and trying to pick off UC, USF, UConn and Rutgers. C-USA basketball would be the real deal if you add those four (to go along with Memphis).

let's just say this. UCONN and Rutgers want out badly and know they don't want to be in a CUSA conference. UC I don't think has a clue and I am not so sure that when you get right down to it, that UC really cares that much about football. I know UC has won recently, but it still seems like they care much more about basketball than football. I can see UCONN eventually going to the ACC, Louisville and WVU the Big 12 and UC and Rutgers getting left behind. At that point I guess they either join CUSA or stay in a basketball only Big East and go independent in football.

[xubrew]

let's just say this. UCONN and Rutgers want out badly and know they don't want to be in a CUSA conference. UC I don't think has a clue and I am not so sure that when you get right down to it, that UC really cares that much about football. I know UC has won recently, but it still seems like they care much more about basketball than football. I can see UCONN eventually going to the ACC, Louisville and WVU the Big 12 and UC and Rutgers getting left behind. At that point I guess they either join CUSA or stay in a basketball only Big East and go independent in football.

Most likely the latter. I'm sure the Big Country Football Association would welcome them, which would be much better for them than becoming full CUSA members.

[LA Muskie]

I can see UCONN eventually going to the ACC, Louisville and WVU the Big 12 and UC and Rutgers getting left behind. At that point I guess they either join CUSA or stay in a basketball only Big East and go independent in football.
I have to think Rutgers will somehow land on its feet in a BCS conference. It's an AAU Land-Grant institution in the Greater NYC TV market. In particular, if the ACC only takes 1 more school from the Big East I think it will be Rutgers before it's UConn.

[GoMuskies]

I have to think Rutgers will somehow land on its feet in a BCS conference. It's an AAU Land-Grant institution in the Greater NYC TV market. In particular, if the ACC only takes 1 more school from the Big East I think it will be Rutgers before it's UConn.

If Rutgers (who has always sucked at everything) gets picked over UConn (womens and mens basketball national championships galore, BCS bowl game appearance last year), it will further prove what complete lunacy conference realignment has become.

[LA Muskie]

If Rutgers (who has always sucked at everything) gets picked over UConn (womens and mens basketball national championships galore, BCS bowl game appearance last year), it will further prove what complete lunacy conference realignment has become.
Surely that has already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Masterofreality]

If Rutgers (who has always sucked at everything) gets picked over UConn (womens and mens basketball national championships galore, BCS bowl game appearance last year), it will further prove what complete lunacy conference realignment has become.

4 words:

New York TV Market

[XU 87]

Surely that has already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And stop calling me Shirley.

[GoMuskies]

4 words:

New York TV Market

They bring the NYC TV market about as much as Fordham does. UConn probably moves the needle in NYC more than the State University of New Jersey.

[SM#24]

They bring the NYC TV market about as much as Fordham does. UConn probably moves the needle in NYC more than the State University of New Jersey.

Yet, 4 of the top 5 highest rated college football games on ESPN in the NYC market involved Rutgers. 5 of 5 when you look at ESPN2.

A very small piece of the NYC market is larger than a 70%+ share of the Birmingham market.

[GoMuskies]

And they probably all happened that one time Rutgers had a good team in 2006. When they're good again in 2025, a few people in NYC may pay attention then as well.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile, nobody cares about Big Least football.

Last night Pitt "reported" that the attendance for their game with UCon was over 40,000.

I believe, however, that was the count of actual empty seats.

There was no one there.

[BBC 08]

And they probably all happened that one time Rutgers had a good team in 2006.

Damn you, Willie Gay! /shakes fist

[GoMuskies]

Meanwhile, nobody cares about Big Least football.

Last night Pitt "reported" that the attendance for their game with UCon was over 40,000.

I believe, however, that was the count of actual empty seats.

There was no one there.

That's ACC football now.

[GoMuskies]

Hopefully the new Huggy Bear news will scare the Big XII off of WV.

[xudash]

That's ACC football now.

Poor Mark May is left to defend that pathetic showing last night.

[xudash]

That's ACC football now.

I was sitting with a couple of Seminole friends, both of whom are on the Gator Bowl Committee, at the Jax/Baltimore game Monday night. They were lamenting on the ACC's "structural inability" to ever become a true force in football, especially with the SEC being as dominate as it is in the South.

When you consider the likes of BC, Wake and Duke - smaller, private and smaller - and factor in the reality that Maryland, NC State and UNC have never been really good at football, you can see where the ACC is left to rely on FSU, VTech and Miami, with an occasional showing by GTech.

What makes it worse, as everyone knows, is that even Miami and FSU are down - trying to come back, but down - from their prior glory years.

My friends want FSU out of the ACC so badly it isn't even funny. One of them actually got into a conversation with Slive at last year's Gator Bowl and pleaded with him (in a nice, comical way) to take the 'noles into the SEC. He said Slive, being very gracious about it, said something to the effect of FSU being a top flight program with strong support and tradition, but that it would create redundancy in the SEC footprint.

Once upon a time, FSU could run through the ACC in most years and find its way into a major bowl year in and year out. Beyond that, the dollars disparity between UF and FSU and Miami have widened considerably.

UGA has an air conditioned dog house and bags of ice to sit upon for the hotter games of the earlier part of each season. I'm sure FSU will still be able to feed Chief Osceola and Renegade moving forward, but they'll never have it as good as that bulldog has it with Georgia printing money through the SEC deal the way it does.

[Masterofreality]

That's ACC football now.

Not yet.

Until it is, it is still Big Least.

I would think that a matchup vs Clemson would get a lot more people there than UCon.

Two more years of garbage for those who are leaving.

And if the ACC is so bad, why is everyone crawling up to the door begging to get in?

Answer: Because the Big East sucks.

[GoMuskies]

Because the ACC isn't imploding. Has nothing to do with the on-field product, though. I mean, even though Miami has mostly sucked at football since they joined the ACC, people would still rather be in a conference with them than USF, which has actually fielded better football teams.

[SM#24]

And they probably all happened that one time Rutgers had a good team in 2006. When they're good again in 2025, a few people in NYC may pay attention then as well.

That's 9 games, they couldn't all be from 2006.

Rutgers vs. UConn - football - about even
Rutgers vs. UConn - everything else - big edge UConn
Rutgers vs. UConn - academics - edge Rutgers
Rutgers vs. UConn - TV worth - I don't know

It will be interesting who gets chosen over the other if it comes down to that.

One thing I'm sensing from this alignment stuff is that on field performance, while a factor, seems to be taking a backseat to marketability and academic standing.

[xavierj]

Because the ACC isn't imploding. Has nothing to do with the on-field product, though. I mean, even though Miami has mostly sucked at football since they joined the ACC, people would still rather be in a conference with them than USF, which has actually fielded better football teams.

Really? USF is 8-16 in their last 24 Big East conference football games. That is freaking awful. Miami's bad years are celebrated at USF.

[XU 87]

What exactly will these schools do with all the extra money they are getting? They're not going to put it back into the school's engineering program or use it to reduce tuition. I doubt they will use it to start a new academic scholarship program. Instead, the head football coach will now make about $7 million per year instead of $3 and the offensive coordinator will make $1.5 million per instead of $750,000 per year.

It's really pretty insane when you think about it.

[GoMuskies]

Boise State may join the Big East.....AND the Big West. Talk about a geographical identity crisis!

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7153316/boise-state-bronocs-discussing-move-big-west-conference-non-football-teams

[xavierj]

Boise State may join the Big East.....AND the Big West. Talk about a geographical identity crisis!

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7153316/boise-state-bronocs-discussing-move-big-west-conference-non-football-teams

I think Boise will be making a mistake if they join the Big East for football. They have just as much chance to ever play for a National Championship now then they will in a watered down conference that is grasping at straws. Boise may lose their identity if they go to the Big East. It's kind of what I fear if Xavier ever joins a power basketball conference. While it's great that they would be in a stronger conference, you still take the risk of losing what made you appealing and you could end up Providence or Seton Hall, which is irrelevant.

[GoMuskies]

Boise may lose their identity if they go to the Big East.

Didn't happen as they jumped from the Big Sky to the Big West to the WAC to the MWC over the last 15 years. Not sure why it would happen to them in the Big East then.

[SM#24]

I think Boise will be making a mistake if they join the Big East for football. They have just as much chance to ever play for a National Championship now then they will in a watered down conference that is grasping at straws. Boise may lose their identity if they go to the Big East. It's kind of what I fear if Xavier ever joins a power basketball conference. While it's great that they would be in a stronger conference, you still take the risk of losing what made you appealing and you could end up Providence or Seton Hall, which is irrelevant.

What about being in the A10 makes Xavier appealing ?
To me, a stronger conference can only make our program stronger. We may not win 5 straight conference championships, but we would be better overall.

Either that, or we're overrated every year because we play a watered down A10 schedule and our players are frauds.

I choose to believe the former.

[xavierj]

What about being in the A10 makes Xavier appealing ?
To me, a stronger conference can only make our program stronger. We may not win 5 straight conference championships, but we would be better overall.

Either that, or we're overrated every year because we play a watered down A10 schedule and our players are frauds.

I choose to believe the former.

Because they dominate and they get more attention from being a big fish in a small pond than they would being like everyone else in a power conference. I also think you can say the same for Memphis or maybe you can say that about UC. I am not sure UC is that much better off now than they were in CUSA.

[SM#24]

Because they dominate and they get more attention from being a big fish in a small pond than they would being like everyone else in a power conference. I also think you can say the same for Memphis or maybe you can say that about UC. I am not sure UC is that much better off now than they were in CUSA.

UC is worse off because they lost Huggins, not because they left CUSA. We would get more attention being in 4th place in the Big East than by being in 1st place in the A10.

We would not be like everyone else. We would not be unique like we are in the A10, but I would like to think that we would be more like Villanova, than like PC or Seton Hall.

[xudash]

I think Boise will be making a mistake if they join the Big East for football. They have just as much chance to ever play for a National Championship now then they will in a watered down conference that is grasping at straws. Boise may lose their identity if they go to the Big East. It's kind of what I fear if Xavier ever joins a power basketball conference. While it's great that they would be in a stronger conference, you still take the risk of losing what made you appealing and you could end up Providence or Seton Hall, which is irrelevant.

You do understand the business side of who we are - what Xavier is?

I'm very proud for Xavier in what I put as my tag line, but it is more than that: Xavier is truly one of the most valuable, financially powerful basketball programs IN THE NATION.

Consider the following carefully for a moment, assuming Xavier joins the BE hoops schools in a conference.

1. On campus arenas comparable to Cintas Center: none; not even close.

2. Use of NBA arenas for home games: all of them; St. John's stays on campus in their band box from time to time and Villanova has the crappy, dated Pavilion with which they get by, but, by and large, Georgetown, in particular, SHU, DePaul and Providence are strapped.

3. Amenities: nothing like what is embedded in the Cintas Center, except for Marquette. Georgetown posters seem to worry like hell about their position in all this, given their facilities limitations. I suspect, outside of the McGuire Center, the other schools are mostly in the same position.

Overall, Xavier already budgets and travels better than most BCS schools. I'm not worried at all about Xavier's ability to compete at the highest level. It already does that.

[GoMuskies]

[/B]

Really? USF is 8-16 in their last 24 Big East conference football games. That is freaking awful.

Speaking of freaking awful, Miami lost at home to UVA 28-21 tonight. The race to the bottom continues.

[xudash]

Speaking of freaking awful, Miami lost at home to UVA 28-21 tonight. The race to the bottom continues.

And it amazes me how well the fanbase dresses for Halloween week. How do they sit still looking like empty chairs like that for 4 quarters. Just amazing.

[xavierj]

Speaking of freaking awful, Miami lost at home to UVA 28-21 tonight. The race to the bottom continues.

yeah and virginia is 5-3 wins a win over a good Georgia tech team. Virginia is not great but they are definitely improved this season.

[Masterofreality]

But Miami beat Oh-ho-ho State:rolleyes:

[GoMuskies]

yeah and virginia is 5-3 wins a win over a good Georgia tech team. Virginia is not great but they are definitely improved this season.

They looked great losing at home to Southern Miss and NC State.

[Davis Love III]

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32980106

Breaking News. WV gets the nod over Louisville - set to join the Big 12.

[GoMuskies]

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32980106

Breaking News. WV gets the nod over Louisville - set to join the Big 12.

Son of three bitches.

[BBC 08]

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32980106

Breaking News. WV gets the nod over Louisville - set to join the Big 12.

F*********************************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bleedXblue]

Relax

The B12 will go to 12 teams in the next couple of years.

They won't stay at 10 with all of the other conferences at 12 or 14 teams.

[GoMuskies]

Relax

The B12 will go to 12 teams in the next couple of years.

They won't stay at 10 with all of the other conferences at 12 or 14 teams.

Football recruiting is going to be rather difficult in the interim.

[LA Muskie]

Relax

The B12 will go to 12 teams in the next couple of years.

They won't stay at 10 with all of the other conferences at 12 or 14 teams.

I think they'll still take Louisville this year. But they want Louisville to make the first move for legal reasons. That said, the lawyer in me is shocked that the threats of lawsuits have played such a role in all of this...

[bleedXblue]

Football recruiting is going to be rather difficult in the interim.

Exactly.

It may happen sooner than later.

Once the dust settles when Mizzou makes its move..........

The Big east has been put in a vulnerable position. They're scrambling right now. It's kind of sad.

[SM#24]

It's kind of sad.

not really

[GoMuskies]

I think they'll still take Louisville this year. But they want Louisville to make the first move for legal reasons. That said, the lawyer in me is shocked that the threats of lawsuits have played such a role in all of this...

They don't seem to have played much of a role. What have they stopped? Sure, the threats have led people to act a little more slowly and conservatively, but this whole cycle has so far only lasted about three months, and look how much has changed.

[GoMuskies]

Rick Pitino is a jackass. I wish that attention whore would shut up.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7159905/west-virginia-mountaineers-formally-invited-join-big-12

He wants to make sure the Big East invites, UCF, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Houston to "avoid losing its identity". Yeah, little late for that.

[Muskie]

Rick Pitino is a jackass. I wish that attention whore would shut up.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7159905/west-virginia-mountaineers-formally-invited-join-big-12

He wants to make sure the Big East invites, UCF, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Houston to "avoid losing its identity". Yeah, little late for that.

I'm pretty sure she says the conference would have folded had Louisville left instead of WVU... ok.

[GoMuskies]

He also says UConn is the only team left they need to worry about leaving....while Louisville has been groveling in front of the Big XII all week.

[xubrew]

yeah and virginia is 5-3 wins a win over a good Georgia tech team. Virginia is not great but they are definitely improved this season.

Mike London is awesome. Virginia is a tough place to win, but he appears to be off to a great start. He won a national championship at Richmond.

When D1 jobs open, schools don't tend to look at the successful FCS coaches nearly as much as they look at coordinators from major programs. I don't know why. I'm not saying they shouldn't look at big time coordinators at all. I'm just saying they should look at FCS coaches more than they do. Mike London is another example of a guy who got it done in FCS who appears to be getting it done in FBS.

[xubrew]

Exactly.

It may happen sooner than later.

Once the dust settles when Mizzou makes its move..........

The Big east has been put in a vulnerable position. They're scrambling right now. It's kind of sad.

I'm really not that sad.

I think all of this conference realignment is ridiculous, and over time it will prove to not have been such a good idea in the majority of cases. I almost think that this is all laying the groundwork for conferences to split up in the next seven to ten years.

That doesn't make me sad, though. It's pathetic, but I don't have a big enough hard to care enough about it to be sad. :D

[paulxu]

That said, the lawyer in me is shocked that the threats of lawsuits have played such a role in all of this...

You shouldn't be shocked while Ken Starr is president of Baylor.

I don't understand how WVA can leave to play football in the B12 in 2012, but Syr/Pitt are held up by the BE rules to wait till 2104. I've obvioulsy missed something along the way.

If the BE does get more football teams, I bet the others negotiate a way to leave earlier.

Interesting to see CUSA teams trying to go places. But, opens up a hole for the Kittens.

[Founding Father]

CUSA does not want to lose any of their current schools to the BE so they should invite South Florida, UC, Rutgers and maybe even Louisville to CUSA for all sports.

The bball only schools agree to waive the $5 million and 27 months and retain the BE name and credits.

[chico]

At this point I don't know why the Big East bball schools would vote to add football members. They would be much better off having the pick of the all basketball schools than to add the football schools they're rumored to want. The bball schools hold the cards now (no pun intended, UL fans) so why not make the best deal you can with other bball only schools.

[Founding Father]

At this point I don't know why the Big East bball schools would vote to add football members. They would be much better off having the pick of the all basketball schools than to add the football schools they're rumored to want. The bball schools hold the cards now (no pun intended, UL fans) so why not make the best deal you can with other bball only schools.

I agree and think CUSA and the BE bball only members should work together to get S. Fla, UC and Rutgers out of the BE.

[SM#24]

At this point I don't know why the Big East bball schools would vote to add football members. They would be much better off having the pick of the all basketball schools than to add the football schools they're rumored to want. The bball schools hold the cards now (no pun intended, UL fans) so why not make the best deal you can with other bball only schools.

Because there is still some value in being aligned with the football schools. The bball schools still value being in a conference with UConn and Louisville and are willing to eat whatever sh*t sandwiches are being served. Until UConn is gone, the non-football league will not happen.

[bleedXblue]

I'm so confused I don't know what to think anymore.

I hope the worst case scenario for X is a revamped A-10 with the bottom feeders out and
some new blood in.

We have an opportunity NOW to have the best non-BCS conference in college basketball. Let's take advantage of it.

[Founding Father]

Because there is still some value in being aligned with the football schools. The bball schools still value being in a conference with UConn and Louisville and are willing to eat whatever sh*t sandwiches are being served. Until UConn is gone, the non-football league will not happen.

Really?

UCONN and Louisville have one foot out the door. The bball onlies would be stupid to add in full members to appease two programs with one foot out the door each.

[LA Muskie]

They don't seem to have played much of a role. What have they stopped? Sure, the threats have led people to act a little more slowly and conservatively, but this whole cycle has so far only lasted about three months, and look how much has changed.
True that it hasn't stopped anything. And the delay hasn't been significant. But it has created a good amount of gamesmanship (all of which is pretty obvious to me, which makes you wonder why they are bothering in the first place).

[SM#24]

Really?

UCONN and Louisville have one foot out the door. The bball onlies would be stupid to add in full members to appease two programs with one foot out the door each.

With no where to go. Where are they going ? As of now, the ACC is not going beyond 14 and the B12 says they're sticking at 10. Obviously as fluid as this all is, it could change at any moment. But this could be the deal for the next 4-5 years.

I think the bball schools are crazy to allow more full members in unless it is, as Pitino suggests, Memphis and Temple. I cannot understand why they would agree to UCF or the Texas schools. Of course, maybe adding the Dallas, Houston and Orlando markets to their basketball package, even though you're adding poor teams, is more valuable than sending the football schools on their way.

One thing is becoming more and more apparent to me and that is the BE bball schools do not want to be in a conference with X; it seems we're to them, what having to move into CUSA would be to UC.

[LA Muskie]

You shouldn't be shocked while Ken Starr is president of Baylor.

I don't understand how WVA can leave to play football in the B12 in 2012, but Syr/Pitt are held up by the BE rules to wait till 2104. I've obvioulsy missed something along the way.

If the BE does get more football teams, I bet the others negotiate a way to leave earlier.

Interesting to see CUSA teams trying to go places. But, opens up a hole for the Kittens.
Trust me, I get the Ken Starr thing... As for the 27-month period, technically WVU is still subject to it as well, but I think you are right -- despite Marinatto's statements there is a general consensus that the conference is "holding" the schools to that period only to maintain short-term survivability, and that if they can get replacements on board they will be happy to let the schools out of the conference (and away from their units).

[LA Muskie]

I'm so confused I don't know what to think anymore.

I hope the worst case scenario for X is a revamped A-10 with the bottom feeders out and
some new blood in.

We have an opportunity NOW to have the best non-BCS conference in college basketball. Let's take advantage of it.
Everyone's entitled to their hopes and dreams, but at what point will we all accept that the A-10 isn't dumping anyone? A revamped A-10 may lose a few and add a few, and it may or may not end up better overall, but no one is being involuntarily kicked to the curb.

[LA Muskie]

One thing is becoming more and more apparent to me and that is the BE bball schools do not want to be in a conference with X; it seems we're to them, what having to move into CUSA would be to UC.
Yes and no. It's not "personal" to X. It's that they don't want to acknowledge that their reality has irreversibly changed. They are in denial.

Think of it this way: if Temple, Charlotte, and Richmond left the A-10 and were replaced by Butler, George Mason, and VCU/Old Dominion, the *perception* would be that the conference had taken a step back down into the world of the mid-major conference. The *reality* might actually end up being quite the opposite, but perception rules (at least initially).

[Founding Father]

With no where to go. Where are they going ? As of now, the ACC is not going beyond 14 and the B12 says they're sticking at 10. Obviously as fluid as this all is, it could change at any moment. But this could be the deal for the next 4-5 years.

I think the bball schools are crazy to allow more full members in unless it is, as Pitino suggests, Memphis and Temple. I cannot understand why they would agree to UCF or the Texas schools. Of course, maybe adding the Dallas, Houston and Orlando markets to their basketball package, even though you're adding poor teams, is more valuable than sending the football schools on their way.

One thing is becoming more and more apparent to me and that is the BE bball schools do not want to be in a conference with X; it seems we're to them, what having to move into CUSA would be to UC.

The football schools don't care what happens to Seton Hall in all of this. Why should Seton Hall, etc. care what happens to UCONN if they collectively block any additions to the BE that play football?

UCONN would remain in the BE for all sports and park football in the MAC until the ACC is ready.

[GoMuskies]

Yes and no. It's not "personal" to X. It's that they don't want to acknowledge that their reality has irreversibly changed. They are in denial.

Think of it this way: if Temple, Charlotte, and Richmond left the A-10 and were replaced by Butler, George Mason, and VCU/Old Dominion, the *perception* would be that the conference had taken a step back down into the world of the mid-major conference. The *reality* might actually end up being quite the opposite, but perception rules (at least initially).

I would take your proposed change in a heartbeat (assuming ODU and not VCU). As would most, I think.

[paulxu]

As for the 27-month period, technically WVU is still subject to it as well, but I think you are right -- despite Marinatto's statements there is a general consensus that the conference is "holding" the schools to that period only to maintain short-term survivability, and that if they can get replacements on board they will be happy to let the schools out of the conference (and away from their units).

So, even without a replacement at this point, WVU gets to leave BE and play football in the B12 in 2012.....but, Syr/Pitt (who announced earlier they were going to ACC) have to stay until 2014?

I don't get it.

I do understand that all is subject to negotiations/dollars, etc. But I haven't seen anything that indicates that has occurred.

[xavierj]

So, even without a replacement at this point, WVU gets to leave BE and play football in the B12 in 2012.....but, Syr/Pitt (who announced earlier they were going to ACC) have to stay until 2014?

I don't get it.

I do understand that all is subject to negotiations/dollars, etc. But I haven't seen anything that indicates that has occurred.

Contracts are meant to be broken. In my opinion I am sure that if Pitt and Syracuse want to play in the ACC next year and if the ACC wants them next year, then they will play in the ACC next year.

[chico]

With no where to go. Where are they going ? As of now, the ACC is not going beyond 14 and the B12 says they're sticking at 10. Obviously as fluid as this all is, it could change at any moment. But this could be the deal for the next 4-5 years.

I think the bball schools are crazy to allow more full members in unless it is, as Pitino suggests, Memphis and Temple. I cannot understand why they would agree to UCF or the Texas schools. Of course, maybe adding the Dallas, Houston and Orlando markets to their basketball package, even though you're adding poor teams, is more valuable than sending the football schools on their way.

One thing is becoming more and more apparent to me and that is the BE bball schools do not want to be in a conference with X; it seems we're to them, what having to move into CUSA would be to UC.

Once the Big East loses its BCS status - which is a pretty likely event - the football schools become less attractive. Sure, UConn and UL are very good hoops programs but long-term they'll go where the football money is, and without the BCS it's not the Big East. Yes, as LA Muskie said, perception can be reality, but in the case of X most people - even casual fans - see them as a cut above the typical mid-major.

I think, though, it's less of a case of the Big East not wanting X and more of a case of waiting to see where the football shakes out. The problem is the hoops schools aren't getting out in front of the shuffling and letting the football schools dictate what to do, which long term is definitely not in the hoops schools' best interests.

[LA Muskie]

So, even without a replacement at this point, WVU gets to leave BE and play football in the B12 in 2012.....but, Syr/Pitt (who announced earlier they were going to ACC) have to stay until 2014?

I don't get it.

I do understand that all is subject to negotiations/dollars, etc. But I haven't seen anything that indicates that has occurred.
While the Big XII announced that WVU would be joining for 2012/2013, the Big East's public stance is that West Virginia is subject to the same 27-month hold as Pitt and Syracuse. To date, there has been no report of a deal. Although clearly WVU (and the Big XII) assume there will be one.

[LA Muskie]

I would take your proposed change in a heartbeat (assuming ODU and not VCU). As would most, I think.
As a basketball fan, so would I. But it wouldn't be universally loved.

[GoMuskies]

Hoya Talk had the bid on early exit starting at $21 million. No idea if there is even a shred of truth to that number.

[MADXSTER]

Personally I think the NCAA needs to step in and revamp this BCS crap.

My understanding...
In order for a football to contend for a National Championship they Must be part of the BCS. Everyone else is out of luck.

Get rid of the BSC, period. And a lot of this goes away.

Good Lord, put a damn tournament together.

[xubrew]

CUSA does not want to lose any of their current schools to the BE so they should invite South Florida, UC, Rutgers and maybe even Louisville to CUSA for all sports.

The bball only schools agree to waive the $5 million and 27 months and retain the BE name and credits.

There is no reason to waive anything. The bball schools can retain BE name and credits without waiving the exit fees. If a team leaves a conference, they forfeit everything.



I'm so confused I don't know what to think anymore.

I hope the worst case scenario for X is a revamped A-10 with the bottom feeders out and
some new blood in.

We have an opportunity NOW to have the best non-BCS conference in college basketball. Let's take advantage of it.

I think the most likely scenario is that the Atlantic Ten remains in its current format. It isn't the only possibility by any means, but if I had to guess, I'd say it wouldn't change at all.



At this point I don't know why the Big East bball schools would vote to add football members. They would be much better off having the pick of the all basketball schools than to add the football schools they're rumored to want. The bball schools hold the cards now (no pun intended, UL fans) so why not make the best deal you can with other bball only schools.

The ONLY thing I can think of is that having football can make it easier to get a TV deal. It's kind of like a football only deal will get you $10 million. A basketball deal will get you $10 million. A deal for both football and basketball will get you $30 million.

I just pulled those numbers out of thin air, but you get the point I'm trying to make.

Other than that, there is no real advantage that I can see to making concessions for football.



So, even without a replacement at this point, WVU gets to leave BE and play football in the B12 in 2012.....but, Syr/Pitt (who announced earlier they were going to ACC) have to stay until 2014?

I don't get it.

I do understand that all is subject to negotiations/dollars, etc. But I haven't seen anything that indicates that has occurred.

I think that if WVU wants out early, they're paying more than $10 million AND they're keeping teams like Louisville, UC and Rutgers on the schedule for many years to come.

[SM#24]

Personally I think the NCAA needs to step in and revamp this BCS crap.

My understanding...
In order for a football to contend for a National Championship they Must be part of the BCS. Everyone else is out of luck.

Get rid of the BSC, period. And a lot of this goes away.

Good Lord, put a damn tournament together.

I don't think the NCAA has any jurisdiction over the BCS. It would need to be the other way around; the schools would need to go to the NCAA and say we want a tournament.

[surfxu]

A co-worker of mine is a WVU alum and was born and raised on WVU football. He has had about 5 hours of sleep this week with everything going on. I asked him about the 27 month thing and he said WVU will forego their TV money this year (approx $21 million) so they can use their get out of jail card. Don't know if that is reality but he's got his ear to the ground a lot more than me. He has basically predicted everything that has happened in the last week or two and been right on queue with it as to the timing...so I'm tending to believe him. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is the complete desolving of Big East football, but he predicted that could take another month or even another year as UConn and Louisville find a home. He seems to think that UC, Rutgers and USF will be left out in the cold.

[SM#24]

I wonder if one of the things the BE is bargaining with the B12 and ACC for with the 27-month wait is to get their backing on the BE keeping its BCS AQ (in addition to $$ and scheduling considerations).

As far as the fb/bb split, right now the BE is at 13; 7 bb, 5 fb and ND. I can understand the bb schools telling the fb schools, add as many fb-only members as you want, but I would think adding Houston, SMU and UCF as full members is very short sighted. I see the BE label not doing any more for their bb program than it did for USF's.

As I mentioned in a previous post, let's say all the movement is now done for the next 4-5 years. The BE is still #6 in the conference pecking order, but now a more distant 6th. If the next wave of movement involves any of the top 5 increasing in size, the trickle down will be schools like UConn, Louisville, Rutgers, UC leaving the BE. The bb schools will then be stuck with all these CUSA schools, who will probably want to add more CUSA schools.

I would like to think that once UConn and Louisville leave, the BE bb schools will want out of the fb business.

[SM#24]

The ONLY thing I can think of is that having football can make it easier to get a TV deal. It's kind of like a football only deal will get you $10 million. A basketball deal will get you $10 million. A deal for both football and basketball will get you $30 million.

I just pulled those numbers out of thin air, but you get the point I'm trying to make.

Other than that, there is no real advantage that I can see to making concessions for football.

That's what I keep coming back to as to why the bb schools are letting the fb schools add all these CUSA schools.

That's how screwed up this all is.
It's like going to McDonald's and the combo deal costs more than the individual items purchased separately.

[Masterofreality]

That's how screwed up this all is.
It's like going to McDonald's and the combo deal costs more than the individual items purchased separately.

SucKS will sell themselves at a deeeeeeeeep, deeeeeeep discount-

-Like a 66 year old whore.

[Masterofreality]

A co-worker of mine is a WVU alum and was born and raised on WVU football. He has had about 5 hours of sleep this week with everything going on. I asked him about the 27 month thing and he said WVU will forego their TV money this year (approx $21 million) so they can use their get out of jail card.

WVA is running, not walking away. Thuggy will get a nice warm reception in Big Least gyms this year.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
WVU President on BE buyout: "Our team and their team are in discussions about how we make that happen." WVU already paid 2.5 million today.

[waggy]

How could anyone on this board be surprised that the bball schools would continue with a hybrid, even one not having an AQ BCS bid? It's not like this is a new revelation here.

[paulxu]

WVA is running, not walking away. Thuggy will get a nice warm reception in Big Least gyms this year.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
WVU President on BE buyout: "Our team and their team are in discussions about how we make that happen." WVU already paid 2.5 million today.

What we have here...is failure to 'municate.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Big East puzzled by WVU's notion that they're negotiating an exit. They haven't talked about it. Don't plan to, either.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Big East won't be bought out by WVU because its a bad precedent for Pitt/Syr. Confident in their legal standing.

[Founding Father]

There is no reason to waive anything. The bball schools can retain BE name and credits without waiving the exit fees. If a team leaves a conference, they forfeit everything.

It would be for only the remaining three schools that they would waive the exit fees as a way to motivate the BE football losers from remaining in the BE.

The bball onlies tell S. Fla, UC and Rutgers, thanks for the good times, you can leave immediately without any exit fess. We don't really want you hanging around in the conference anymore.

[DC Muskie]

Does anyone know how they would enforce WVa to play if they actually did not send any team to any game?

I don't get this 27 month argument.

[coasterville95]

That would be funny, their first big east conference game next year, Georgetown has an arena full of fans and their team waiting, while wva is busy at Kansas.

Imagine the headlines, imagine the indignant rhetoric, imagine Cronin happy about a possible forfeit.

[xudash]

That would be funny, their first big east conference game next year, Georgetown has an arena full of fans and their team waiting, while wva is busy at Kansas.

Imagine the headlines, imagine the indignant rhetoric, imagine Cronin happy about a possible forfeit.

Cronin's comments in today's Enquirer were truly embarrassing. In essence, he sees these changes as making it possible for UC to establish more identity within the revised BE. He sees the revised conference as an easier path for UC. What a pu@@y.

[X-band '01]

Cronin's comments in today's Enquirer were truly embarrassing. In essence, he sees these changes as making it possible for UC to establish more identity within the revised BE. He sees the revised conference as an easier path for UC. What a pu@@y.

You didn't register recently on Cincinnati.com as YardGnome, did you? Normally the comments section is a wasteland but I couldn't resist taking a peek.

[xudash]

You didn't register recently on Cincinnati.com as YardGnome, did you? Normally the comments section is a wasteland but I couldn't resist taking a peek.

I love the handle, but, no, that isn't me; I don't waste my time on comments sections.

[GoMuskies]

Does anyone know how they would enforce WVa to play if they actually did not send any team to any game?

I don't get this 27 month argument.

They might not be able to force them to play Big East games. But the could keep them from participating in any other conference, and any games they did play would be the Big East's TV property.

[LA Muskie]

They might not be able to force them to play Big East games.
Agreed. They can't force WVU to do anything, and a court wouldn't either.

But the could keep them from participating in any other conference
I disagree. I don't see a court enforcing this, either.

and any games they did play would be the Big East's TV property.
This is the issue. Depends on the language of the contracts. And the Big XII might be able to live with it for 2 years.

The Big East is blustering. They can't possibly feel strong about their legal positions. There's a very low likelihood of an injunction; it's simply a damages case. And while they may be able to prove significant damages, keep in mind they will be mitigated (ie, offset) by WVU's surrender of the TV money, BCS units and NCAA shares that it otherwise would be entitled to if it stuck around for the next 2 years.

[xubrew]

It would be for only the remaining three schools that they would waive the exit fees as a way to motivate the BE football losers from remaining in the BE.

The bball onlies tell S. Fla, UC and Rutgers, thanks for the good times, you can leave immediately without any exit fess. We don't really want you hanging around in the conference anymore.

I'm fairly certain that the basketball only schools would have no interest in forcing out the schools with football teams. If anything, they'd want them to remain full Big East members, and just be independent or affiliate members of another conference for football.

Besides, if they're invited to a BCS AQ conference, they'd leave regardless of what the exit fees were. On the other hand, eliminating the exit fees would do nothing to entice them to leave and join a league like CUSA.



Does anyone know how they would enforce WVa to play if they actually did not send any team to any game?

I don't get this 27 month argument.

I believe it would fall under the category of breech of contract. When Boston College left the first time the BE took legal action and delayed their departure.

[LA Muskie]

I believe it would fall under the category of breech of contract. When Boston College left the first time the BE took legal action and delayed their departure.
It would be a breach of contract. But breach of contract rarely justifies an injunction. The delay was about resolution, not litigation.

[GoMuskies]

I'm no litigator, but I have to imagine whatever agreement is in place has all your standard language about the parties agreeing to the 27 month exit clause and acknowledging that damages will/may not be enough to compensate for a breach of the 27 month exit clause and that a party would be entitled to equitable remedies in case of a breach. I would be absolutely shocked if the language is not basically airtight in the Big East's favor. Again, not being a litigator, though, I'm not sure if courts will enforce the equitable remedies even where it is extremely clear at the time of the contract that the parties are agreeing to the remedy in case of breach.

[DC Muskie]

Go-

Couldn't WVa just say, "We are leaving next year. We will pay our $5 million exit fee, and we will pay X amount of dollars for leaving before the agreed 27 month timeline."

I can't imagine why a school and a conference would want a prolonged relationship that is going to end anyway. What benefit can the BE get by keeping them around for the next 27 months?

And why do these schools and conferences set up a 27 month exit timeline anyway? Anyone know that?

[GoMuskies]

Go-

Couldn't WVa just say, "We are leaving next year. We will pay our $5 million exit fee, and we will pay X amount of dollars for leaving before the agreed 27 month timeline."

I can't imagine why a school and a conference would want a prolonged relationship that is going to end anyway. What benefit can the BE get by keeping them around for the next 27 months?

And why do these schools and conferences set up a 27 month exit timeline anyway? Anyone know that?

The "X amount" wouldn't be set up in the agreement. I am certain that the agreement would say that no amount of money damages would be sufficient to compensate the Big East for breaking the contract.

The 27 months could be for two different purposes:

1) negotiating leverage
2) given the BCS AQ situation, the Big East probably wants to keep WV around to strengthen its case over the next few years so they do not lose AQ status

The value of #2 is tough to gauge, too, so that would bolster the Big East's argument that an injunction is appropriate here.

[DC Muskie]

Is that usual not to have specific dollar amounts if the contract is breached? What consequences would Wva have to face if they breach it, and the BE wants something in return?

The BE loses. Heck any conference losses when a conference leaves. If there is no amount that could be repaid then what would they argue over?

Good point on number 2.

Another thing...what's going to happen to Louisville now? Any chance the Big 12 comes back to them?

[LA Muskie]

The "X amount" wouldn't be set up in the agreement. I am certain that the agreement would say that no amount of money damages would be sufficient to compensate the Big East for breaking the contract.
The contract may contain a liquidated damages provision (very common because injunctive relief is so unlikely in breach of contract cases). Generally those would be litigated (legitimate liquidated damages amount or impermissible legal "penalty"). But if WVU wants to get out badly enough, and the Big XII wants them badly enough, they might just pay it.