Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[SM#24]

Yeah I see no way Bosie would have any real interest in joining an east coast league for football. They should just go the independent route like ND and BYU for football.
If the BE maintains its AQ BCS status, and Boise might help it do so, then why wouldn't Boise want easier access to the BCS bowl games ?

[GoMuskies]

If the BE maintains its AQ BCS status, and Boise might help it do so, then why wouldn't Boise want easier access to the BCS bowl games ?

Agreed. IF everything settles down, and the Big East gets actual commitments from WV, Louisville, Rutgers and UConn to stick around, it would make perfect sense for Boise to join (other than the geography which makes no sense). They can go out and play two killer non-conference games, and WV and sometimes Louisville, UC and/or USF would give them a little bit of a schedule pop, and they would have a realistic shot of making a national title game appearance. If they lose one of those marquee OOC games, then they would still have the Big East auto-bid to potentially fall back on.

But it makes no sense for them to enter into such an alliance without full on commitments backed by huge exit fees from Louisville, WV, Rutgers and UConn.

[Founding Father]

What is Villanova doing? Do they really want to make the finacial committment/tough financial move to move up to DI and find they have a non AQ confernence to play in 36 months from now?

[xavierj]

If the BE maintains its AQ BCS status, and Boise might help it do so, then why wouldn't Boise want easier access to the BCS bowl games ?

because boise has a niche. Joining a 2nd rate bcs football conference won't help their chances. They are making bcs bowls now and joining a conference without an identity with little respect could cause them to lose their identity. I would say they have a better shot right now at bcs success then any team currently in the big east.

[LA Muskie]

If the BE maintains its AQ BCS status, and Boise might help it do so, then why wouldn't Boise want easier access to the BCS bowl games ?
THIS. THIS. And more THIS. Frankly it's a pretty genius move -- for the Big East it would probably solidify the BCS AQ. For Boise, it would get it out of the at-large BS.

[GoMuskies]

because boise has a niche. Joining a 2nd rate bcs football conference won't help their chances. They are making bcs bowls now and joining a conference without an identity with little respect could cause them to lose their identity. I would say they have a better shot right now at bcs success then any team currently in the big east.

They have a better chance at BCS success right now than all but about 5 schools in the entire country, regardless of league. And they're in the MWC now. It's not like moving to the Big East would put them in a worse situation (again, with the huge assumption that the league includes Louisville, WV, UConn and Rutgers going forward).

[LA Muskie]

because boise has a niche. Joining a 2nd rate bcs football conference won't help their chances. They are making bcs bowls now and joining a conference without an identity with little respect could cause them to lose their identity. I would say they have a better shot right now at bcs success then any team currently in the big east.
XavierJ, I've got to respectfully disagree. The BCS bowls are skewed absurdly in favor of the member conference (and ND). They do have niche, but the system sucks. And the SEC is already making waves about turning the bowls it even more of a BCS-only club.

[xubrew]

What is Villanova doing? Do they really want to make the finacial committment/tough financial move to move up to DI and find they have a non AQ confernence to play in 36 months from now?

Nova wanted to move up, but the Big East opted to not let them. It is the only case in the history of college athletics that I know of where a full conference member was denied inclusion in a sport sponsored by the conference they are a member of. Maybe it has happened before, but I cannot think of another example.


because boise has a niche. Joining a 2nd rate bcs football conference won't help their chances. They are making bcs bowls now and joining a conference without an identity with little respect could cause them to lose their identity. I would say they have a better shot right now at bcs success then any team currently in the big east.

Boise State did not make a BCS bowl last year, even though they were eligible to do so. If they were in the Big East, they almost certainly would have automatically qualified. In 2008, Boise was undefeated, and didn't go to a BCS game either. They would have most likely won the Big East that year as well and automatically qualified. That's twice in four years they would have gone to a BCS bowl had they been in the Big East. At the very least, they finished higher in the rankings than the Big East champion did.

On top of that, Boise does not get a full BCS share, even when they go to a BCS bowl. Joining the Big East is an absolute no brainer if it keeps its BCS AQ status. Being in a second rate conference that is BCS AQ is far and away better than being in a second rate conference that isn't. As it stands now, they have to find a heavyweight that is willing to play them and go undefeated, and sometimes that isn't even enough. In the Big East, they could lose a game...maybe two...and still make a BCS game.

[Founding Father]

Nova wanted to move up, but the Big East opted to not let them. It is the only case in the history of college athletics that I know of where a full conference member was denied inclusion in a sport sponsored by the conference they are a member of. Maybe it has happened before, but I cannot think of another example.

So has Villanova given up on potentially moving up then?

[xubrew]

So has Villanova given up on potentially moving up then?

I believe their delimma is finding a suitable location for their home games. You would think Franklin Field would work, but it doesn't have lights, and I guess Penn doesn't want to share it. Lincoln Financial would work, but Temple said they would be unwilling to share it, which I guess they have a right to do.

I do not know if they're working to resolve this, or if they have given up.

[GoMuskies]

They also talked about playing at the MLS stadium.

[SM#24]

I believe their delimma is finding a suitable location for their home games. You would think Franklin Field would work, but it doesn't have lights, and I guess Penn doesn't want to share it. Lincoln Financial would work, but Temple said they would be unwilling to share it, which I guess they have a right to do.

I do not know if they're working to resolve this, or if they have given up.

You may see a deal with Temple; give us access to the Linc and we'll support full BE membership for you.

[xubrew]

You may see a deal with Temple; give us access to the Linc and we'll support full BE membership for you.

Hmmmm. Never thought of that. You may be right.

[LA Muskie]

You may see a deal with Temple; give us access to the Linc and we'll support full BE membership for you.
Very good point. My guess is that with all the fluidity, 'Nova is anxious to join the ranks of FBS if they can. If nothing else, this has shown that FOOTBALL IS KING, and that basketball is -- at best -- the court jester. I don't like that one bit, but it'd be tough to argue against right now.

[DC Muskie]

People would be fine losing the conference's presence in DC and Charlotte?

Okay. I guess.

I hope our conference leadership doesn't think that way.

[GoMuskies]

Our conference has a presence in D.C.?

[DC Muskie]

Our conference has a presence in D.C.?

Yes.

[xubrew]

Very good point. My guess is that with all the fluidity, 'Nova is anxious to join the ranks of FBS if they can. If nothing else, this has shown that FOOTBALL IS KING, and that basketball is -- at best -- the court jester. I don't like that one bit, but it'd be tough to argue against right now.

I really don't think it's quite like that. There are two revenue sports. It's just that if you don't have football, you're missing half of them. If a school were to drop it's basketball team, it wouldn't be any more desirable.

It's not about football as much as it is about total revenue. There are academic dollars and resources and TV markets. Pitt and Syracuse have rather lousy football teams, yet they bring a lot to the table in regards to TV and academic dollars. Conferences don't share academic dollars directly, but they do share certain resources such as libraries. Sometimes grants are given to a conference as a whole, and sometimes they collaborate on research projects. That, along with delivering the markets of New York and Pennsylvania play a big role in what the ACC was looking for. NYC and Philly are now technically "in the ACC market." If it were all about football, neither team would have been invited. Colorado wouldn't have been invited to the Big Twelve either.


People would be fine losing the conference's presence in DC and Charlotte?

Okay. I guess.

I hope our conference leadership doesn't think that way.

GW averaged less than 1800 fans a game last year. Is the city of DC even aware of GW's presence?? If not, then can you really say we have a presence of any significance within DC??

EDIT: Serious question. Are the majority GW conference games on TV in DC?? I don't know if they are or not. If not, then can you really say we have a significant presence in Washington DC if the local networks aren't even willing to pay the fees to get the rights to broadcast the games??

[DC Muskie]

GW averaged less than 1800 fans a game last year. Is the city of DC even aware of GW's presence?? If not, then can you really say we have a presence of any significance within DC??

EDIT: Serious question. Are the majority GW conference games on TV in DC?? I don't know if they are or not. If not, then can you really say we have a significant presence in Washington DC if the local networks aren't even willing to pay the fees to get the rights to broadcast the games??

GW's support sucks. You can't even get their games on the radio if you are not in Foggy Bottom.

But GW helped build this conference, being an original member. Why do you think the CAA wants two programs in two big cities? Because they don't know what they are doing? Doubt it. They have sent two programs to the Final Four.

GW has had success before. They could get good again. But for Xavier it helps in your overall recruiting, both basketball and students to have an opportunity to come to DC.

I mean Siena has better attendance then George Mason and VCU. We should go after them, and secure that Mid New York State market.

[xubrew]

GW's support sucks. You can't even get their games on the radio if you are not in Foggy Bottom.

But GW helped build this conference, being an original member. Why do you think the CAA wants two programs in two big cities? Because they don't know what they are doing? Doubt it. They have sent two programs to the Final Four.
GW has had success before. They could get good again. But for Xavier it helps in your overall recruiting, both basketball and students to have an opportunity to come to DC.

I mean Siena has better attendance then George Mason and VCU. We should go after them, and secure that Mid New York State market.

I completely understand your point. Having said that, I have no idea why they would want to expand. It just seems to be the craze for everyone these days. I'm not arrogant enough to sit here and claim that I know more than they do. I will say that based on what I do know, it doesn't make any sense to me. I think conferences would be better off if they stopped expanding. If anything, I think they're too big as it is. I can think of more examples where leagues expanded and ended the same or worse than I can think of leagues that expanded and ended up better off. On top of that, the CAA is already in the DC market, at least sort of, with George Mason.

Charlotte makes a little bit of sense. UNCW wants out (at least that's what I've heard. They want to cut down on traveling costs) and they're probably looking to replace them. I don't see what GW really adds, though. I'm not saying that they're wrong. I'm just not willing to automatically concede that they're right either.

What I do feel is that if a team is in a market that isn't even willing to pay for the TV rights, and therefore contribute to the TV revenue, then I'd rather replace them with someone who will, or just get rid of them entirely. They're taking a piece of the NCAA Tournament revenue, and contributing nothing to the TV revenue. I concede your point about recruiting. I also concede your point that they probably know what they're doing. I personally just don't understand it, and personally don't agree with it. I also don't feel my reasoning is way off base.

[DC Muskie]

George Mason has even a lesser presence in DC then GW does. Virgina Tech, which is like 8 million miles away, has a tremendous football presence.

But DC is a city where a bunch of people from many different schools live. The ACC will now own DC with both Maryland and Syracuse, and Virginia and Virginia Tech and Duke in the league. During basketball the Big East could at least bring something to the table. Georgetown has to be working out a deal to get non conference games with Syracuse. I bet you will now see the Hoyas participate in the BBT classic that Maryland plays in.

Anyway, I don't disagree with the idea that the CAA being interested in GW doesn't make sense. But being able to have the access to the nation's capital has got to be appealing. And recruiting in basketball alone is enough of a reason for me.

And how low has Charlotte gone? From CUSA to the A-10 to the CAA? Is America East next?

[coasterville95]

I can't say I'm in favor of the great CAA/A10 team switcheroo.

I can't rationally explain it, but I really like having GW in the conference. I know Charlotte wants out for football, and ever since Lutz left, it's a good time to part ways. Richmond has been a solid performer, so they would be a loss. Do they also have football?

George Mason may have been a great catch 5 years ago, but they fail the "What have you done for me lately" test. VCU may be acceptable.

Overall, if this happens, and we lose Temple to the Big East, we are much weaker as a whole. Invite Butler and Creighton to replace them?

At least I got a chuckle when P Doc quipped that the phones in the UC athletic offices aren't exactly ringing off the hook with conference invites

[BBC 08]

I don't get why people want Creighton. They, like GMU, haven't done much lately. I also don't think Xavier would want them in the conference, based upon Xavier publicly stating they never want to play Creighton again (I think that was publicly stated at least).

[bleedXblue]

Fella's....relax.

Missouri is all but gone to the SEC.

Once that happens, I see the B12 courting Louisville, West Virginia and one "other school" to get to 12 teams.

They wont stop at 10 schools.

Once that happens, the Big East is done. Finished in football.

Then comes the reconfiguration of the Big East basketball conference.

Hand tight, it will happen.

[LA Muskie]

I really don't think it's quite like that. There are two revenue sports. It's just that if you don't have football, you're missing half of them. If a school were to drop it's basketball team, it wouldn't be any more desirable.

It's not about football as much as it is about total revenue. There are academic dollars and resources and TV markets. Pitt and Syracuse have rather lousy football teams, yet they bring a lot to the table in regards to TV and academic dollars.
Admittedly you have to take what folks say with a grain of salt these days, but the BC AD was quoted as saying that the ACC wanted SU and Pitt for football and that basketball did not even factor into their consideration. (He also said, in essence, that ESPN brokered the deal.)

[xubrew]

Admittedly you have to take what folks say with a grain of salt these days, but the BC AD was quoted as saying that the ACC wanted SU and Pitt for football and that basketball did not even factor into their consideration. (He also said, in essence, that ESPN brokered the deal.)

Like you said, you have to take what you hear with a grain of salt. Having said that, I heard a very different version of how that came to be, and what the motives were. For starters, Pitt and Syracuse add very little directly to football.


I don't get why people want Creighton. They, like GMU, haven't done much lately. I also don't think Xavier would want them in the conference, based upon Xavier publicly stating they never want to play Creighton again (I think that was publicly stated at least).

GMU was a top 25 team last year who made the second round. They will likely be a Top 25 team again this year. Prior to the NCAA Tournament, they had a much better year than VCU had. They were seeded three lines higher, and were a full four games ahead of them in the conference standings. They will likely be better than VCU this year too. I think it's the other way around. GMU has very little history, but has been very good lately and will likely be as good or better this year.

I don't ever recall X saying on record that they wouldn't play Creighton. They said they didn't want to renew the deal, but I didn't take that to mean they never wanted to play again or that there was any sort of falling out. I took it to mean that they just wanted to schedule someone else instead.

FWIW, I think Creighton will likely have a strong team this year as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see three MVC teams in the NCAAs this year in Creighton, Wichita State and Indiana State.

[LA Muskie]

Like you said, you have to take what you hear with a grain of salt. Having said that, I heard a very different version of how that came to be, and what the motives were. For starters, Pitt and Syracuse add very little directly to football.
I agree that they add very little on the football FIELD. But they add more than you would expect on TV ratings.

Syracuse solidly gets you the #51 (Buffalo), #79 (Rochester), and #84 (Syracuse) DMA's, plus a good chunk of the #1 DMA (New York Metro). That's nearly 9 million households and nearly 26 million TV sets (as of 2010, Nielsen calculated an average of 2.93 TV sets per household).

Pitt brings the #23 DMA and -- if folks in Philadelphia care at all about Pitt football (and I have no idea if they do) -- the #4 DMA: another 4 million households and nearly 12 million TV sets.

And both have fanbases that have continued to support them.

[xudash]

I agree that they add very little on the football FIELD. But they add more than you would expect on TV ratings.

Syracuse solidly gets you the #51 (Buffalo), #79 (Rochester), and #84 (Syracuse) DMA's, plus a good chunk of the #1 DMA (New York Metro). That's nearly 9 million households and nearly 26 million TV sets (as of 2010, Nielsen calculated an average of 2.93 TV sets per household).

Pitt brings the #23 DMA and -- if folks in Philadelphia care at all about Pitt football (and I have no idea if they do) -- the #4 DMA: another 4 million households and nearly 12 million TV sets.

And both have fanbases that have continued to support them.

They don't care about Pitt in Philly. Penn State has a following there, but not Pitt.

You would be amazed at how different these cities are from one another. They're in the same state, but that's about it.

[BMoreX]

UCF to the Big East? (http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_ready_1.html)

[xudash]

This is insanity.

The BE is doing what it has to do: take action. It's just that its options are so ludicrous at this point that it makes all this seem like a cluster-ef.

So they are after these "six" and without knowing whether any further losses will be sustained immediately. What does it take, beyond considering the addition of Boise State to the Big East Conference, in terms of losing how many more teams, before the football side crumbles?

If it ends up walking like a CUSA, talking like a CUSA and smelling like a CUSA, it's a CUSA.

If it comes to pass that the A10 loses Temple to this and we remain stuck. So be it. I'll take that position based on the belief that, if it stops like that, it will all remain temporary anyway.

The only thing I would hope for then would be an aggressive spring cleaning in the A10 itself, especially if Temple is lost. I don't need to read that that can't happen. Anything can happen now. If everything that has transpired to-date in football can happen the way it has happened, the A10 can be stood on top of its head and shaken until it turns blue.

If it comes to pass that the whole thing breaks lose and the BE hoops schools make their first call to X, then off we go. That won't be a bed of roses, btw. We'll have to help get some schools like Georgetown weened off the teet of a football conference. It's as though some of these BE hoops schools are going to have to detox from the BE drug.

[xubrew]

It's a mess, for sure. Of the six remaining schools with football teams, I think all of them are looking to go somewhere else. At the same time, they're trying to at least appear to have a united front in order to attract six more football members.

UCF is a good choice. They're a travel partner for USF who has spent a ton and a half of money upgrading their facilities, and has a halfway decent fan base. According to the article, it looks as though they'll invite Temple to be a full member as well. From there, it seems to me the logical choices for affiliates are the service academies and Boise State.

But, there is the small issue of having six schools that would up and leave if given a chance.

Of the six that are still there, Louisville, WVU or UC could end up in the Big Twelve. Or two of them. Or all three of them. UConn and Rutgers still want into the ACC, and apparently Boston College is the only thing holding that up. South Florida is...well...not in good shape.

It is getting to a point to where if the Big East cannot save the football conference because only one or two schools remain, I think their best bet would be to remain full Big East members along with the basketball schools, and just go independent in football. It's better to be in a large revenue generating conference for basketball and indie in football than it is to be in a low revenue generating conference that sponsors both sports. With the Big East having six bowl tie-ins, it shouldn't be hard to work out a contengency plan with a few of them, since all of them will be looking to replace the Big East tie-ins anyway. Considering that they would probably be willing to take less bowl money since they don't have to share it with an entire league, they should be in a position to work out some sort of deal with some pretty decent bowls.

If it's West Virginia, they shouldn't have any issues scheduling. If anything, it will enable them to restore some old traditional rivalries against the likes of Penn State, Pitt, Virginia Tech and Virginia. Marshall is also a fixture game. UC would have a tougher time scheduling, but it wouldn't be impossible. This is far from an ideal scenario, but it's better than joining a league where no teams make money off of football, and barely make money off of basketball.

[flatspat]

I don't get why people want Creighton. They, like GMU, haven't done much lately. I also don't think Xavier would want them in the conference, based upon Xavier publicly stating they never want to play Creighton again (I think that was publicly stated at least).

IIRC, Sean Miller stated that as long as he was coach X would never play Creighton again,especially in Omaha.

[Masterofreality]

If it ends up walking like a CUSA, talking like a CUSA and smelling like a CUSA, it's a CUSA.


CUSA? This is more like the Gateway/Horizon League. A full league populated by directional schools. East Carolina, Central Florida. What's next? Inviting Northern Iowa? Middle Tennessee State? (after all they did beat Memphis). Eastern Kentucky?

The desperate thrashing around of the Big Zombie is comical to behold. There may never be a more bastardized college athletic league in the history of sports. Now they are allowing schools to play in football only while staying in another league to play their other minor sports.

It will never happen, but if the leagues that these Big Zombie invitees come from would tell them either you are in for all sports or out for all sports, it might make a difference, but probably not.

A crappy football league just got worse...and will continue to do so. What network would want to telecast this garbage?

Big East Football- "Catch the Excrement!"

[xubrew]

CUSA? This is more like the Gateway/Horizon League. A full league populated by directional schools. East Carolina, Central Florida. What's next? Inviting Northern Iowa? Middle Tennessee State? (after all they did beat Memphis). Eastern Kentucky?

The desperate thrashing around of the Big Zombie is comical to behold. There may never be a more bastardized college athletic league in the history of sports. Now they are allowing schools to play in football only while staying in another league to play their other minor sports.

It will never happen, but if the leagues that these Big Zombie invitees come from would tell them either you are in for all sports or out for all sports, it might make a difference, but probably not.
A crappy football league just got worse...and will continue to do so. What network would want to telecast this garbage?

Big East Football- "Catch the Excrement!"

None of the leagues are really in a position to do that. Army and Navy are full Patriot League members. Boise is in the MWC now, but will likely go back to the WAC for all other sports. That's where Air Force would likely land as well. I could easily see the Mountain West saying "You're all in, or you're not in at all." I can also easily see Air Force and Boise leaving under those terms.

If Temple joins up again as an affiliate member and not a full member, the Atlantic Ten isn't really in a position to do that either.

The thing is that none of the teams they're looking at have been substantially worse than Pitt and Syracuse over the past several seasons. If you're going to have mediocre teams, it's better to have mediocre teams with tradition than it is to have mediocre teams without tradition.

[Masterofreality]

The thing is that none of the teams they're looking at have been substantially worse than Pitt and Syracuse over the past several seasons. If you're going to have mediocre teams, it's better to have mediocre teams with tradition than it is to have mediocre teams without tradition.

Forget about on field performance. It's about TV ratings and markets.

The Big Least is losing Pittsburgh, and basically all of New York and picking up errr, Orlando (barely since they are all Gator or Seminole fans) and maybe that metropolis of Greenville, NC- population 32,000.

Sounds like a fair trade to me. :rolleyes:

[xubrew]

The more I look at it, the more I'm starting to realize that the basketball schools are in pretty good shape.

Big East football might fold, but the Big East conference as a whole will not if they don't want it to. They don't have to dissolve the league and start over. If the football members leave, oh well. If the football members want to invite other full members, they can't do it without the approval of the basketball schools. They can just sit back, relax, and pick and choose.

If the football does fall apart, and one or more of the following are left behind (Louisville, UC, WVU, UConn, Rutgers, USF), those schools could still remain full Big East members in basketball and all other sports, and be Indie in football. With the exception of USF, all bring something to the table in basketball. Rutgers has very little history, but they're trending up under Mike Rice. They're also a natural rival for Seton Hall and Saint John's.

If the worst case scenario is that Rutgers and/or USF remain in the conference, then the worst case scenario isn't so bad.

[GoMuskies]

ECU actually has a very large and loyal fan base. UCF? Not really. Pitt and Syracuse don't really bring TV markets either for football. They do in theory, and maybe if they got really good again people would pay attention, but in reality most people up there aren't interested. There's Steelers, and Bills and Giants and Jets to think about.

[SM#24]

It will never happen, but if the leagues that these Big Zombie invitees come from would tell them either you are in for all sports or out for all sports, it might make a difference, but probably not.

It appears that the Mt West and CUSA are taking this stance, but the WAC has publicly stated they would be willing to take on non-football members (not sure why). Non-FBS conferences like the A10, MVC don't care where their teams play football and the MVC has stated they would be interested in taking on someone like Air Force.
In the A10's case, they would probably encourage schools to be BE football-only members because if the BE football side crumbles, they stand to lose their better schools.

[SM#24]

Pitt and Syracuse don't really bring TV markets either for football. They do in theory, and maybe if they got really good again people would pay attention, but in reality most people up there aren't interested. There's Steelers, and Bills and Giants and Jets to think about.
You could say this about any school located in the major Northeast media markets. Out of all those millions of people, there must be some college football fans. Syracuse has a lot of interest in NYC (obviously not Giants/Jets like interest), plus they bring you 4 smaller upstate markets (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany) when added together make one decent sized market. Since NY does not have that dominant state university, Syracuse has been marketing themselves as "New York's College."
Obviously if Pitt and Syr improve their on field results, interest and viewership will increase.

[xubrew]

It appears that the Mt West and CUSA are taking this stance, but the WAC has publicly stated they would be willing to take on non-football members (not sure why). Non-FBS conferences like the A10, MVC don't care where their teams play football and the MVC has stated they would be interested in taking on someone like Air Force.
In the A10's case, they would probably encourage schools to be BE football-only members because if the BE football side crumbles, they stand to lose their better schools.

WAC stands for Welcoming All Comers. It stopped standing for Western Athletic Conference long ago. With teams like Louisiana Tech, they are neither western, nor athletic. With the additions of schools like Texas State, Texas Arlington, Texas San Antonio, Seattle and Denver, the WAC also seems to have a policy that if you've been div1 for more than twenty years, they're not interested. They're adding schools to their football lineup that don't even have football teams yet.

If I'm Temple, I seek out full Big East membership. What's better?? Being a full Atlantic Ten member and an affiliate MAC football member, or being a full Big East member with the likes of Nova, Georgetown, ND, SJU, Marquette, etc and being an affiliate MAC member?? It's the latter, and if they become full Big East members, that is the worst case scenario.

[GoMuskies]

You could say this about any school located in the major Northeast media markets. Out of all those millions of people, there must be some college football fans. Syracuse has a lot of interest in NYC (obviously not Giants/Jets like interest), plus they bring you 4 smaller upstate markets (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany) when added together make one decent sized market. Since NY does not have that dominant state university, Syracuse has been marketing themselves as "New York's College."
Obviously if Pitt and Syr improve their on field results, interest and viewership will increase.

Yeah, I've been to quite a few Syracuse football games. Most of those fans who are so interested dress up as empty seats for the games.

Syracuse has been marketing themselves as New York's football team. That doesn't mean New York agrees.

[SM#24]

SU football does not offer much of a gameday experience. Parking is spread out and confined to smaller city lots or garages, so there's not much tailgating; the dome is a sterile environment. However, there is interest in SU sports throughout upstate NY, and people do view. It's kind of a situation of, people are interested enough to watch on TV because that's easy and cheap, but don't really feel like getting in their car and driving 1-2 hours to go to the game. Another way to put it is, one might be willing to invest 3 hours of their day on an SU football game, but not 6-7 hours.
From a media market standpoint, I can see why they are more attractive than a WVU, even though the results on the field and the atmosphere at the stadium are vastly different.

[pizza delivery]

I just want Xavier to continue to "do what we do", I don't really care who our conference mates are. It's still going to be us vs. the world, probably even more so. Adding a jilted GU could end up just as disappointing as the mighty SLU and Charlotte. What's clear in all this is it's uphill if you are out of the football loop. It's always been uphill for X, though, so I'm not worried. I love basketball and pretty much find college football a total waste of time. Count me among the perplexed that such a big deal is made about shi!!y football teams like Syracuse where there are a few thousand people at the game. If I went to Syracuse I would have stopped watching their football games in 1985 or some shit. BE football is glorified HS football with each team having 4-5 bellcows. SEC football is semi-pro and dirty. That all this money is at stake really really shocks me. I hope this realignment talk dies down so I can enjoy cbb without it.

[GoMuskies]

BE football is glorified HS football

Your high school must have had some amazing teams.

[LA Muskie]

ECU actually has a very large and loyal fan base. UCF? Not really. Pitt and Syracuse don't really bring TV markets either for football. They do in theory, and maybe if they got really good again people would pay attention, but in reality most people up there aren't interested. There's Steelers, and Bills and Giants and Jets to think about.

This is wrong, at least for upstate NY.

[LA Muskie]

SU football does not offer much of a gameday experience. Parking is spread out and confined to smaller city lots or garages, so there's not much tailgating; the dome is a sterile environment. However, there is interest in SU sports throughout upstate NY, and people do view. It's kind of a situation of, people are interested enough to watch on TV because that's easy and cheap, but don't really feel like getting in their car and driving 1-2 hours to go to the game. Another way to put it is, one might be willing to invest 3 hours of their day on an SU football game, but not 6-7 hours.
From a media market standpoint, I can see why they are more attractive than a WVU, even though the results on the field and the atmosphere at the stadium are vastly different.

This is my SU experience as well (having grown up in Rochester and having a brother who coached another team there).

[GoMuskies]

So Syracuse is the one passionate fan base in all of college football in a decent media market who do not bother to show up for the games?

[bleedXblue]

Ok, we've had some real interesting debates and conversation over this monsterous thread.

Discussing Syracuse football is not one of them.

Who really cares about Syracuse football ?

They've been a total non factor for the last 10-15 years.

[LA Muskie]

So Syracuse is the one passionate fan base in all of college football in a decent media market who do not bother to show up for the games?
Syracuse Football Home Attendance

Season Gms Ttl Att Avg Att
1964 4 118,053 29,510
1965 5 139,000 27,800
1966 5 164,882 32,976
1967 5 166,211 33,242
1968 5 153,292 30,658
1969 5 134,156 26,831
1970 5 122,577 24,515
1971 5 131,319 26,224
1972 5 118,247 19,707
1973 5 111,155 18,525
1974 6 126,705 21,117
1975 6 129,809 21,635
1976 6 116,267 19,378
1977 6 113,950 18,992
1978 5 111,910 22,382
1979 5 102,412 20,482
1980 7 305,444 43,635
1981 6 229,861 38,310
1982 6 211,666 35,278
1983 6 204,777 34,130
1984 5 221,107 44,221
1985 6 231,377 38,563
1986 6 207,204 34,534
1987 6 266,938 44,490
1988 6 276,484 46,081
1989 6 293,308 48,885
1990 5 235,112 47,022
1991 6 260,666 43,444
1992 6 295,910 49,318
1993 5 249,458 48,092
1994 6 286,477 47,746
1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898
1999 6 280,445 46,741
2000 6 258,372 43,062
2001 6 246,619 41,103
2002 6 253,556 42,259
2003 7 288,169 41,167
2004 5 218,234 43,647
2005 6 241,510 40,252
2006 7 287,514 41,073
2007 7 245,064 35,009
2008 6 200,844 33,474
2009 8 312,343 39,043
Total 265 9,764,213 36,273

[GoMuskies]

Do you think those numbers are good or bad? Pretty similar to East Carolina, really.
Year Total Avg. Rk Ref
2010 297,987 49,665 44 [9]
2009 292,191 41,742 57 [10]
2008 210,080 42,016 56 [11]
2007 249,219 41,537 56 [12]
2006 223,006 37,168 63 [13]
2005 165,230 33,046 70 [14]
2004 153,418 30,684 71 [15]
2003 198,073 33,012 68 [16]
2002 148,144 29,629 67 [17]
2001 186,875 37,375 58 [18]
2000 217,742 36,290 61 [19]
1999 294,255 42,036 49 [20]
1998 158,716 31,743 64 [21]
1997 164,375 32,875 - [22]
1996 146,324 29,265 -
1995 151,889 30,378 -
1994 159,805 31,961 -
1993 134,482 26,896 -
1992 164,068 32,814 -
1991 160,108 32,022 -
1990 143,285 28,657

[SM#24]

So Syracuse is the one passionate fan base in all of college football in a decent media market who do not bother to show up for the games?

They do average 40,000/game and have done so for a while. (2007 & 2008 dipped to the mid-30's, but mostly for the past 20 years or so, it's been around 40,000+).
While not SEC/Big10 numbers, a little bit more than no one.

[waggy]

Mandel at SI says the Little Zombie will lose it's BCS AQ status after 2013.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/10/10/big.east.automatic.qualifier.status/?xid=cnnbin

He's probably right, but I don't think that will change the BBall schools desire to continue in a hybrid conference.

[xavierj]

They do average 40,000/game and have done so for a while. (2007 & 2008 dipped to the mid-30's, but mostly for the past 20 years or so, it's been around 40,000+).
While not SEC/Big10 numbers, a little bit more than no one.

UC would kill to get 40,000 fans per game to a football game. Save for the last few years they struggled to get more than 18,000 a game.

[GoMuskies]

UC would kill to get 40,000 fans per game to a football game. Save for the last few years they struggled to get more than 18,000 a game.

And no one is a bit interested in UC in conference realignment talks. Well, C-USA is probably interested.

[LA Muskie]

UC would kill to get 40,000 fans per game to a football game. Save for the last few years they struggled to get more than 18,000 a game.

The NCAA average (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/d47a560045aad7aab88ffc9080650d5b/2010_Attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d47a560045aad7aab88ffc9080650d5b) for 2010 was about 45,000. Syracuse is under the average -- which is clearly skewed by the Top 10 (which average nearly 100,000) -- but not by all that much.

[GoMuskies]

Out of curiousity, I wonder what the median is. That's really a better indicator for this sort of thing.

[X-band '01]

Syracuse Football Home Attendance

Season Gms Ttl Att Avg Att
1964 4 118,053 29,510
1965 5 139,000 27,800
1966 5 164,882 32,976
1967 5 166,211 33,242
1968 5 153,292 30,658
1969 5 134,156 26,831
1970 5 122,577 24,515
1971 5 131,319 26,224
1972 5 118,247 19,707
1973 5 111,155 18,525
1974 6 126,705 21,117
1975 6 129,809 21,635
1976 6 116,267 19,378
1977 6 113,950 18,992
1978 5 111,910 22,382
1979 5 102,412 20,482
1980 7 305,444 43,635
1981 6 229,861 38,310
1982 6 211,666 35,278
1983 6 204,777 34,130
1984 5 221,107 44,221
1985 6 231,377 38,563
1986 6 207,204 34,534
1987 6 266,938 44,490
1988 6 276,484 46,081
1989 6 293,308 48,885
1990 5 235,112 47,022
1991 6 260,666 43,444
1992 6 295,910 49,318
1993 5 249,458 48,092
1994 6 286,477 47,746
1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898
1999 6 280,445 46,741
2000 6 258,372 43,062
2001 6 246,619 41,103
2002 6 253,556 42,259
2003 7 288,169 41,167
2004 5 218,234 43,647
2005 6 241,510 40,252
2006 7 287,514 41,073
2007 7 245,064 35,009
2008 6 200,844 33,474
2009 8 312,343 39,043
Total 265 9,764,213 36,273

It shouldn't be too difficult to tell the years that Donovan McNabb went to Syracuse (the last time they really mattered).

[coasterville95]

I remember the vow never to return to Omaha. Something about the quality of the officiating, and the way they handle television rights. (You have to use their pay per view webstream, essentially). Time Warner tried to patch the feed to channel 99, it didn't work. Time Warner claims the problem was at Creighton's end.

[XUglow]

Memphis AD RC Johnson said yesterday that Memphis "deserves" to be in the SEC. Yikes!!! Any team that loses by more than 40 to Arkansas State doesn't deserve to be in C-USA, much less the SEC. He amended his statement to say that the SEC was their goal.

Memphis has a very good basketball program. Oh, that's right. The SEC doesn't care.

[LA Muskie]

Mandel at SI says the Little Zombie will lose it's BCS AQ status after 2013.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/10/10/big.east.automatic.qualifier.status/?xid=cnnbin

He's probably right, but I don't think that will change the BBall schools desire to continue in a hybrid conference.
Interesting article. I wasn't aware of the waiver in 2007.

[SM#24]

Out of curiousity, I wonder what the median is. That's really a better indicator for this sort of thing.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf

[LA Muskie]

Out of curiousity, I wonder what the median is. That's really a better indicator for this sort of thing.
I agree, but I don't have the time to do the data input necessary to determine it (and can't find it quickly online).

[LA Muskie]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2010.pdf
That's the same thing I posted. It indicates the mean (average) but not the median (midpoint).

[SM#24]

That's the same thing I posted. It indicates the mean (average) but not the median (midpoint).

Believe it or not, Syracuse is the median. Out of 120, they rank 60 (Baylor is 61).

[GoMuskies]

That's pretty funny. It does put them near the bottom among BCS schools, though. I only count BC (a super overrated program in the conference realignment due to bringing a market they don't actually bring), UC, UConn, Duke, Maryland, Northwestern, Stanford, Vandy and Wake Forest behind them.

[LA Muskie]

That's pretty funny. It does put them near the bottom among BCS schools, though. I only count BC (a super overrated program in the conference realignment due to bringing a market they don't actually bring), UC, UConn, Duke, Maryland, Northwestern, Stanford, Vandy and Wake Forest behind them.
I agree that aspiring to be like those programs (perhaps Stanford aside) is not exactly a lofty aspiration.

[waggy]

Some tidbits from this article at Philly.com


There have been questions asked within the Big East lately about whether it's possible for Villanova and Temple to both play home football games at Lincoln Financial Field. The smart answer is no, the Eagles wouldn't go for it. They barely went for Temple playing games there. The smartest answer is, depends on the $$$. There's a dollar figure for everything. But realistically, 'Nova couldn't share the place with the Owls.

There is little consensus within the Big East. In recent years, Big East football schools made decisions and basketball schools mostly went along. But that's not the case right now. With Pitt and Syracuse leaving, Big East schools that don't play football have more votes, more common interests, and thus more power.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20111011_Chances_for_Temple_to_join_Big_East_remai n_positive.html

[Founding Father]

http://byu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1277441&PT=4&PR=2

Assuming BYU does join per the above article, is it better for XU's chances to get in a league with Georgetown, etc. for Missouri to stay in the B12 or join the SEC?

[dc_x]

http://byu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1277441&PT=4&PR=2

Assuming BYU does join per the above article, is it better for XU's chances to get in a league with Georgetown, etc. for Missouri to stay in the B12 or join the SEC?

I'm guessing it doesn't matter. I think if Mizzou goes to the SEC, then Big 12 adds 3 schools (BYU and probably WVU and Louisville). If Mizzou stays, then the Big 12 adds Louisville and BYU and the SEC adds WVU. Either way the BE will lose 2 more football members when the dust settles.

The question is whether the ACC goes after UConn and/or Rutgers. That would be the final nail in the coffin. It seems like the ACC is holding out hope for Notre Dame while Notre Dame is waiting to see what happens with the Big East.

[Masterofreality]

Mandel at SI says the Little Zombie will lose it's BCS AQ status after 2013.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/10/10/big.east.automatic.qualifier.status/?xid=cnnbin

He's probably right, but I don't think that will change the BBall schools desire to continue in a hybrid conference.

This is tru-ism. Mandel's column is right on.

Oh,

and....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Ha!

[xudash]

How telling is this:

""You're telling me you're going to put 9-3 East Carolina in the Fiesta Bowl?" said one college football administrator. "Are you kidding me?""

[LA Muskie]

This is tru-ism. Mandel's column is right on.
I agree. And I think he might be right -- they may have accepted their fate, in which case getting to 12 at least gets them a conference championship game. Of course they have probably misconstrued the existence of a conference championship game as a desire on the part of fans to see said game.

Someone somewhere in the BE heirarchy does not understand where that conference sits, and has not for a while. I am still astonished that they turned down ESPN's offer. While we know ND cast one of those votes, it didn't cast all of them. And given Boeheim's complaints, we can confidently assume 'Cuse did not.

[waggy]

Someone somewhere in the BE heirarchy does not understand where that conference sits, and has not for a while.

This is a big problem too in any attempt to get them to even look a bball only conference. There is no one inside the conference it would appear, that can/will champion this. I don't care which way they go, zombie hybrid or cyo, someone is going to have to define it and sell it.

[xudash]

I agree. And I think he might be right -- they may have accepted their fate, in which case getting to 12 at least gets them a conference championship game. Of course they have probably misconstrued the existence of a conference championship game as a desire on the part of fans to see said game.

Someone somewhere in the BE heirarchy does not understand where that conference sits, and has not for a while. I am still astonished that they turned down ESPN's offer. While we know ND cast one of those votes, it didn't cast all of them. And given Boeheim's complaints, we can confidently assume 'Cuse did not.

You know this is going to turn out badly for the BE when UConn gets their AQ bid after being the least suckiest of pure suck, then failing to sellout their BCS bowl ticket allotment, and then getting crushed in said bowl. All that and leaving Michigan State and Boise State on the sidelines that year.

BE Football. Welcome to Gridiron Purgatory.

[GoMuskies]

Some of you fellers are getting a bit carried away. Big East football has not been nearly as bad as you folks are claiming. It's not as if UConn is the first bad team to get into a BCS game (Florida State's stellar 7-5 Sugar Bowl team in '02 comes to mind) or fail to sell out its BCS game ticket allotment (Wake Forest in '06 anyone). And if the Big East ends up with a sparsely attended championship game...well, they won't be the first conference to go that route either.

http://www.statefansnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/acc_championship_game_crowd_view_2007_empty_stadiu m_jacksonville_altel_acc_sucks_sux.jpg

In fact, the Big East has only rarely been the worst BCS conference, and it's always been closer to the top BCS conference than to the next non-BCS conference. So as much as you may dislike the Big East, if they keep Louisville, UC, WV, UConn, USF and Rutgers all together, it's still going to be tough to kill as a BCS league.

[X-band '01]

Wow. I thought upper-deck curtains back at the old Spectrum for the A-10 Tournament were depressing.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Sources tell Orangebloods.com #BYU is no longer a candidate to join the #Big12 because BYU wants to be independent.

Come on down UL or WVU!

DanWolken Dan Wolken
A 16-team Big East worked for the Catholics b/c there were enough power schools to fill arenas and boost RPI. This model no better than A-10


DanWolken Dan Wolken
Still think proposed Big East is doomed. More schools are leaving. Hoops so bloated with bad programs, a breakaway will be necessary

[DC Muskie]

The ACC bringing in all of these BE teams for football will seal the deal that the ACC plays just god awful football.

These basketball schools trying to become football players is just funny. Maryland, UNC, Wake Forrest. Now throw in Syracuse. Maybe UConn. Hilarious.

[BMoreX]

@wordmandc @cnolf89 -Temple is also in along with UCF as full members and that comes from four sources that are from three member schools= welcome back!

Now, I have never heard of the Washington Examiner, but it's a (sad) rumor nonetheless.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

KySportsRadio Matt Jones
Two sources tell KSR to expect the Big 12 to issue an invite to Louisville by the end of the week.

[GoMuskies]

KySportsRadio Matt Jones
Two sources tell KSR to expect the Big 12 to issue an invite to Louisville by the end of the week.

If Matt Jones is reporting good news for Louisville, that probably means it's true....or that he's really screwing with Louisville fans. Either way, that's interesting.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If Matt Jones is reporting good news for Louisville, that probably means it's true....or that he's really screwing with Louisville fans. Either way, that's interesting.

He may be messing with them. I missed the date on that. Its from October 4

[Masterofreality]

@wordmandc @cnolf89 -Temple is also in along with UCF as full members and that comes from four sources that are from three member schools= welcome back!

Now, I have never heard of the Washington Examiner, but it's a (sad) rumor nonetheless.


KySportsRadio Matt Jones
Two sources tell KSR to expect the Big 12 to issue an invite to Louisville by the end of the week.

Gain one, lose one. That's progress, Big Least.

[XUFan09]

Jesus Christ, I'm making the 1,501st reply to this thread!

[SM#24]

[QUOTE=GoMuskies;289528]

http://www.statefansnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/acc_championship_game_crowd_view_2007_empty_stadiu m_jacksonville_altel_acc_sucks_sux.jpg
[\QUOTE]
From this picture, one can conclude:
Va. Tech fans travel well
BC fans don't travel at all
The general public doesn't give two sh*ts about ACC football

[xudash]

[QUOTE=GoMuskies;289528]

http://www.statefansnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/acc_championship_game_crowd_view_2007_empty_stadiu m_jacksonville_altel_acc_sucks_sux.jpg
[\QUOTE]
From this picture, one can conclude:
Va. Tech fans travel well
BC fans don't travel at all
The general public doesn't give two sh*ts about ACC football

Believe me, it was infuriating for Jacksonville, having to deal with Swofford and his perceptions of what the ACC means to college football. When you take that and then consider that we're otherwise in the middle of SEC country here, you can begin to see just how embarrassing it was for the ACC.

That picture is strong compared to the year BC and Wake went at it. Imagine that.

[bleedXblue]

The ACC can claim that they went after Pitt and Syracuse purely for the football peice, but I'm not buying it. The ACC will never be a top line football conference. With the additon of these two schools, they've added some quality and thats about it.

The conference is now being touted as the best in college basketball.....and I agree.

[GoMuskies]

That picture is strong compared to the year BC and Wake went at it. Imagine that.

When I found this picture, I was actually looking for a crowd picture for that game but couldn't find one.

Wake traveled surprisingly well to the Orange Bowl that year.

[paulxu]

The ACC can claim that they went after Pitt and Syracuse purely for the football peice, but I'm not buying it. The ACC will never be a top line football conference. With the additon of these two schools, they've added some quality and thats about it.

The conference is now being touted as the best in college basketball.....and I agree.

ESPN pushed Pitt/Syr to the ACC. Assume they will tout the ACC BB the same way they touted BE. (Trying to get the Gardens for the tournament?)
Football is still big dollar driver. So, crappy or not, the ACC will get money to share.
It's the only reason that the BE is trying to stay together.

I hope it further implodes so we end up with 5 big conferences. Still think SEC will go to 14 and B12 back to 12.

[bleedXblue]

ESPN pushed Pitt/Syr to the ACC. Assume they will tout the ACC BB the same way they touted BE. (Trying to get the Gardens for the tournament?)
Football is still big dollar driver. So, crappy or not, the ACC will get money to share.
It's the only reason that the BE is trying to stay together.

I hope it further implodes so we end up with 5 big conferences. Still think SEC will go to 14 and B12 back to 12.

This will happen without a doubt.

[bobbiemcgee]

Since all this is essentially a money grab, why doesn't the BE just take the exit fees and bribe the new members with it? Done Deals.

[XUglow]

Missouri says going to the SEC is worth an additional $12M per year over staying in the Big XII. Exit fee will be less than $10M.

A report from the SEC competition committee this morning has Auburn going to the East to make the East 7 teams and the West 6 teams. Before, everyone assumed it was 7 West and 6 East with the addition of TAMU. To me, that says MU and not WVU.

The committee noted that ANY changes would make someone unhappy, so they aren't even going to attempt to please everyone. Some long standing series will be disrupted. The message to the schools involved is "deal with it".

[waggy]

Missouri says going to the SEC is worth an additional $12M per year over staying in the Big XII. Exit fee will be less than $10M.

A report from the SEC competition committee this morning has Auburn going to the East to make the East 7 teams and the West 6 teams. Before, everyone assumed it was 7 West and 6 East with the addition of TAMU. To me, that says MU and not WVU.

The committee noted that ANY changes would make someone unhappy, so they aren't even going to attempt to please everyone. Some long standing series will be disrupted. The message to the schools involved is "deal with it".

They still have to get 10 votes though. I do wonder if they might still be looking/hoping for an ACC team. If nothing comes available real soon though, they are going to have go with Mizzou.

[bobbiemcgee]

Best case is X ends up in BE with Notre Dame and UC goes to SOL conference.:D

[waggy]

A lot of conflicting info out there right now. The zombie is supposedly ready to offer invites, but there are other reports no one can agree on anything.

Clemson may be in play for the SEC's 14th.

Notre Dame to ACC being mentioned if things fall apart sufficiently.

Same guy that had the DeFilippo story...

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_easts_fate.html

[LA Muskie]

A lot of conflicting info out there right now. The zombie is supposedly ready to offer invites, but there are other reports no one can agree on anything.

Clemson may be in play for the SEC's 14th.

Notre Dame to ACC being mentioned if things fall apart sufficiently.

Same guy that had the DeFilippo story...

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_easts_fate.html

The problem (for us) is that there are too many chips that need to fall our way, and too many ways they might not. Not saying it won't happen, but I'm done getting excited about all this. (Yes, that's my superstitious way of saying that if I pretend I don't care anymore, it just might happen...)

[waggy]

The problem (for us) is that there are too many chips that need to fall our way, and too many ways they might not. Not saying it won't happen, but I'm done getting excited about all this. (Yes, that's my superstitious way of saying that if I pretend I don't care anymore, it just might happen...)

The rhetoric out of Boston is not surprising if you believe the BC AD quotes, which boiled down are, "we are trying to kill the football half of your conference".

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

GSwaim
#Mizzou definately has #SEC offer, but Slive just going through the necessary steps to avoid lawsuits, etc. "It will happen soon", I'm told.

GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
WOW... @CBSSports reporting that the NCAA is looking into cutting scholarships for football and basketball: bit.ly/NCAACuts

[xudash]

GSwaim
#Mizzou definately has #SEC offer, but Slive just going through the necessary steps to avoid lawsuits, etc. "It will happen soon", I'm told.

GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
WOW... @CBSSports reporting that the NCAA is looking into cutting scholarships for football and basketball: bit.ly/NCAACuts

I hope this is right about Mizzou.

That opens the Big XII to settle its business. As close as the Big XII got to the casket, I imagine it won't have much remorse about killing BE football once and for all.

[XUmeat]

GSwaim
#Mizzou definately has #SEC offer, but Slive just going through the necessary steps to avoid lawsuits, etc. "It will happen soon", I'm told.GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
WOW... @CBSSports reporting that the NCAA is looking into cutting scholarships for football and basketball: bit.ly/NCAACuts

This could very well be why Lousville "may decline to participate" in this call....

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/32714158

Either way, it's abundantly clear that the BE is against the ropes

[bleedXblue]

Many if us have been saying for weeks that this whole thing hinges on what Missouri does.

Looks like the B12 has already reached out to Louisville and gauged their interest should
Missouri bolt.

Even if they stay put, UL is still likley target #1 for the B12 when they want to expand to 12.

[LA Muskie]

I think it would be absolutely idiotic for the Big XII not to go to XII now, whether Missouri stays or not. After this round of realignment is done, conferences are going to go into overdrive with stabilization plans -- buyout fees, notice periods, probably TV $$$ holdbacks, etc. If they want to go to 12 eventually, they are going to need to do it now. And I think they will, despite probably preferring not to look like the BE killer.

[bleedXblue]

I think it would be absolutely idiotic for the Big XII not to go to XII now, whether Missouri stays or not. After this round of realignment is done, conferences are going to go into overdrive with stabilization plans -- buyout fees, notice periods, probably TV $$$ holdbacks, etc. If they want to go to 12 eventually, they are going to need to do it now. And I think they will, despite probably preferring not to look like the BE killer.

Exactly.

But everyone knows who dealt the first blow and started this whole mess.

[XUglow]

#1522 wow! #1522!

[GoMuskies]

#1522 wow! #1522!

And still so much left to resolve.

[xudash]

I think it would be absolutely idiotic for the Big XII not to go to XII now, whether Missouri stays or not. After this round of realignment is done, conferences are going to go into overdrive with stabilization plans -- buyout fees, notice periods, probably TV $$$ holdbacks, etc. If they want to go to 12 eventually, they are going to need to do it now. And I think they will, despite probably preferring not to look like the BE killer.

Absolutely agree.

Especially given that the Big XII will be the weakest surviving BCS link. Knowing that, wouldn't you think that they understand that they must have a sense of urgency about shoring up their position?

You have the SEC sitting there at 13, knowing that they'll go to 14 soon.

That will trigger more diarrhea in the BE, assuming the SEC takes Mizzou and the Big XII backfills with Louisville. I see UL going next.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://outkickthecoverage.com/all-that-and-a-bag-of-mail-turn-over-cam-newton-files-to-yahoo-sports.php

"Do you still think Missouri is going to be the 14th SEC team?

Yes, I do.

Partly that's because the SEC is in a difficult spot with trying to set up a 13 team conference and needs a quick fix. But Missouri is also a great addition in its own right.

Mizzou needs to go ahead and withdraw from the Big 12 and submit an official application to the SEC. At the very least to keep the sabotage to a minimum. These Missouri leaks are ridiculous.

In a week or so ESPN will report the NCAA rule that makes a 13 game slate virtually impossible. But until then, the SEC's official response to OKTC's story about the impossibility of an 8 game SEC slate and round robin play was telling:

“We have been and remain aware of the rules governing scheduling, and will continue to consider appropriate options,” SEC spokesperson Charles Bloom said.

Since I specifically inquired about whether the conference was requesting a waiver that requires all teams in a division to play each other, I think it's telling that the answer didn't address that question.

I think the most "appropriate option" is going to be Missouri in the SEC East."

[waggy]

Seems like decent info as things stand now:

Temple, Villanova on edge as Big East deliberates (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/131835308.html?cmpid=15585797)


What the league plans to do if Louisville and West Virginia bolt for the Big Twelve in the coming weeks is anybody's guess, so the whole circus may be far from over, or could even start over from the beginning. But Big East football schools not being considered by other leagues are in a precarious place and need to expand immediately to keep the league alive. The basketball schools are going along with that, believing they are stronger being part of a league with an automatic qualifier for BCS bowl games.

Key word above is "automatic". Makes a difference monetarily, but whether it actually kills the hybrid is another matter.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1VnWQLgzUaM/SkJRjFPvoqI/AAAAAAAAAhs/FsOYk1zreoA/s320/1revolving-door.jpg

[BMoreX]

Conference USA, Mountain West Conference to merge into one association for football (http://www.themwc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101411aah.html)

Now...does make this new "conference" automatic qualifying? Do Boise St., Air Force, etc. still go to the Big East?

[XUFan09]

Conference USA, Mountain West Conference to merge into one association for football (http://www.themwc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101411aah.html)

Now...does make this new "conference" automatic qualifying? Do Boise St., Air Force, etc. still go to the Big East?

Ok, I'm kind of at a loss for words about this one...

[bleedXblue]

Ok, I'm kind of at a loss for words about this one...

22 team league


Why stop there. Why not try to go for 30 ?

[xudash]

Is it true that the BE actually voted in a $10mm exit fee!

That makes the MWC and CUSA merger sound like normal news.

[Kevinmc11]

Andy Katz said if Houston, SMU, Boise St. , Air Force(all four football only) and CFU(all sports) accept the invite then the Big East would raise the exit fee to 10 mill. I would think the schools would stay in the MWC-Conf USA merger because they will eventually have a BCS bid.

[xudash]

Andy Katz said if Houston, SMU, Boise St. , Air Force(all four football only) and CFU(all sports) accept the invite then the Big East would raise the exit fee to 10 mill. I would think the schools would stay in the MWC-Conf USA merger because they will eventually have a BCS bid.


I agree. Here's the article:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7101780/source-big-east-sends-invites-five-schools-hike-exit-fee

The geography is truly absurd. Also, at some point, do you conclude that there is simply too much risk. Even if the fee is raised to $10mm, should the Big XII come calling for UL or a combination of schools, would that and the other invited programs simply factor that in, saying toodle-loo in the process?

[MHettel]

BE is playing this just the right way. Instead of laying back to face ultimate death, they are pushing the clock.

Bascially, the basketball teams may now vote for an increase in the exit fee and implement it in spite of UofL, WVU etc. This puts the pressure on them (WVU or UofL) to put the pressure on the B12 to make a formal invite if they want to get this done.

The proverbial "shit or get off the pot" move.

Now, Boise etc are lined up in the case where UofL etc sticks around, but Boise has hedged their bets with the CUSA / MWC affiliation. It's going to be a race to the next move.

CUSA / WMC have thrown their hail mary. If this doesn't work, it's game over (for them).

Right now, UofL (WVU and UConn too) is facing the possibility of the clock running out on them. A $10M exit fee is somthing to think about. These are public institutions, so unless some mega rich alum is willing to foot the bill at a later date, they need to get out of the BE right noiw.

And of course, the B12 (and the ACC for UConn), would be aware that even if they DID offer admittance in the near future, the $10M exit fee from the BE would be damaging to the new programs (at best), and could inhibit a move (at worst).

Pressure now is on ACC and the Big 12 to act and accept the BE football programs before the $10M fee is in place.

I said at the beginning that the BE has played this just right. The BBall only schools stand to either reap enpormous monetary rewards if the football teams leave (and get the name and NCAA units), or it works as a deterrant and keeps UofL, UConn, etc in the conference and they allow the football teasm to joimn without dilluting the conference.

BBall has now officially made a move in all this mess.

[waggy]

Has ESPN phucked the zombie up or what?

First they offer a billion dollar tv deal (but have a mole inside the conference to reject the deal).

Simultaneously they coordinate with the ACC to steal 'Cuse & Pitt.

How can you sue someone who offered you a billion dollars?

ACC school AD says "We keep OUR television partners close". Not sure if that quote was to rub it in, or the guy is just an idiot. Probably both.

I try to stay away from ESPN, but tonight Mark May has blamed Larry Scott for conference realignment 3 or 4 times. Yeah ESPN, it's ALL the Pac12 commish's fault.

The guys doing the football game are cracking on Boise State to the zombie. They're right, but so transparent.

[BMoreX]

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9171/bigeast.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/bigeast.jpg/)

Bahahaha Big EAST my ass. East of what? The West Coast?

[BMoreX]

According to Andy Katz earlier on ESPN, Boise St. informed the MWC that they wouldn't pursue the Big East. That set into motion the merger.

[xavierj]

Boise St. basically already laughed at the Big East as did Air Force. The big east is grasping at straws. Once Louisville heads to the Big 12 the Big East will become the Sun Belt. I would say the MWC-CUSA are the ones playing this right. The Big East is only trying to preserve the name and they are going down in flames, no one of significance wants in. In two years the Big East will consist of South Florida, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Central Florida, Western Kentucky, Temple, Middle Tennessee St., and a few other football stiffs.

[LA Muskie]

BE is playing this just the right way. Instead of laying back to face ultimate death, they are pushing the clock.

Bascially, the basketball teams may now vote for an increase in the exit fee and implement it in spite of UofL, WVU etc. This puts the pressure on them (WVU or UofL) to put the pressure on the B12 to make a formal invite if they want to get this done.

The proverbial "shit or get off the pot" move.

Now, Boise etc are lined up in the case where UofL etc sticks around, but Boise has hedged their bets with the CUSA / MWC affiliation. It's going to be a race to the next move.

CUSA / WMC have thrown their hail mary. If this doesn't work, it's game over (for them).

Right now, UofL (WVU and UConn too) is facing the possibility of the clock running out on them. A $10M exit fee is somthing to think about. These are public institutions, so unless some mega rich alum is willing to foot the bill at a later date, they need to get out of the BE right noiw.

And of course, the B12 (and the ACC for UConn), would be aware that even if they DID offer admittance in the near future, the $10M exit fee from the BE would be damaging to the new programs (at best), and could inhibit a move (at worst).

Pressure now is on ACC and the Big 12 to act and accept the BE football programs before the $10M fee is in place.

I said at the beginning that the BE has played this just right. The BBall only schools stand to either reap enpormous monetary rewards if the football teams leave (and get the name and NCAA units), or it works as a deterrant and keeps UofL, UConn, etc in the conference and they allow the football teasm to joimn without dilluting the conference.

BBall has now officially made a move in all this mess.

How exactly has the Big East succeeded? The conference that survives will be the Big East in name only, and not a single current Big East school will be happy with the result (some short-term $$$ notwithstanding). They won't even be able to stake claim (rightly or wrongly) to being the best basketball conference in the country anymore. If this works the way the Big East hopes, it will amount to "success" only by warped Big East standards. Hell, even PR folks, who are paid to tell absurd lies with straight faces, will have trouble with this one...

[xudash]

According to Andy Katz earlier on ESPN, Boise St. informed the MWC that they wouldn't pursue the Big East. That set into motion the merger.

This really makes perfect sense: a basketball reporter reporting on matters having to do with football realignment that is affecting basketball.

[xubrew]

Conference USA, Mountain West Conference to merge into one association for football (http://www.themwc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101411aah.html)

Now...does make this new "conference" automatic qualifying? Do Boise St., Air Force, etc. still go to the Big East?

The two leagues have been talking about it for a couple of years. They were going to call it the Big Country Football Association, or something like that. Even though they're calling it a "football association" in reality they are just staging a game between the two conference champions, which I think will be considered exempt, meaning it wouldn't count twoard the twelve games you're allowed to schedule. The hope was that the winner of this game would receive an automatic bid to a BCS bowl, but the BCS didn't go along with it. Now, they've just decided to do it anyway. It's possible that they may end up getting it, especially if none of the teams bolt for the Big East and the Big East fails to maintain at least a seven team lineup for football. Perhaps they'll get it either way.

IN a way, it's nice to see the MWC and CUSA have a door to the BCS that is wider open. Unfortunately, since they now have access to the BCS, they aren't going to work as hard to end it...which means it's going to be around for a very long time. Death to the BCS is not coming to fruition.

[xubrew]

Just think about this for a second....

In theory, a CUSA team could play at Hawai'i, which is an exempt game. They could play in the CUSA Championship game, which is an exempt game, play in the Big Country Championship, which would be an exempt game, and then play in a bowl game.

That's sixteen games.

[LA Muskie]

Just think about this for a second....

In theory, a CUSA team could play at Hawai'i, which is an exempt game. They could play in the CUSA Championship game, which is an exempt game, play in the Big Country Championship, which would be an exempt game, and then play in a bowl game.

That's sixteen games.

I seriously doubt that's the way it plays out. First, I suspect the HI exemption will cease to exist if the conference is financially protected as a BCS Conference (and regardless, it applies only to HI itself and teams who play away games at HI, of which there are typically at most 4 conference games per year). Second, the Conference Championship Games will likely cease to exist because, for BCS purposes, they will be a single conference.

[xubrew]

I seriously doubt that's the way it plays out. First, I suspect the HI exemption will cease to exist if the conference is financially protected as a BCS Conference (and regardless, it applies only to HI itself and teams who play away games at HI, of which there are typically at most 4 conference games per year). Second, the Conference Championship Games will likely cease to exist because, for BCS purposes, they will be a single conference.

You're probably right. Anyone who plays at Hawaii gets an additional game, though, whether they're in the conference or not. Colorado played out there this year. In theory, they could play fifteen games with that game, the Pac 12 championship, and a bowl game. It isn't very likely. It's Colorado. The door is open, though. I don't see the HI rule changing.

One previous proposal would be that CUSA and MWC to cut their schedule down to 11 games with an open date at the end of the season. The CUSA championship game would be the 12th for the two teams that are in it, and the winner would play the exempt 13th game against the MWC champ. For everyone else who only played 11 games, the open date would serve as the 12th game, and each team would schedule someone from the other league.

Interesting idea, but it probably wouldn't work. For starters, the MWC champion doesn't get the benefit of an extra exempt game. Also, it would work out that there would be one team without anyone to play for their twelfth game.

I don't know exactly how it will be set up, but I'm assuming that they've agreed on how to do it. Otherwise, they wouldn't have gone forward with it. Again, they've talked about it for awhile, but haven't done it because there was no guarantee for a BCS AQ, and they weren't sure exactly how to set it up. The one thing I'm fairly certain of is that neither league will lose their identity. It's not a merger. It's just an association.

[LA Muskie]

The one thing I'm fairly certain of is that neither league will lose their identity. It's not a merger. It's just an association.
Don't be too certain. From what I've read, they will be creating a separate entity for football, creating divisions, and honoring traditional rivalries. It appears that the "association" is intended to operate as a conference for football purposes. (And I'm assuming, come TV contract expiration, it will be negotiating as such...)

[paulxu]

22 team league


Why stop there. Why not try to go for 30 ?

Don't give up. UC and USF may need a home soon.

[waggy]

Pretty sure it'll be at least 23 teams by the time it actually starts. TCU is leaving, and Nevada and Fresno State are coming in. My guess is 4 divisions of 5/6 teams each.

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't give up. UC and USF may need a home soon.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-14/community/os-bianchi-circus-1015-20111014_1_cusa-mountain-west-bcs-bid-tim-tebow

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ESPN ticker just said that Boise and Air Force plan to reject the Big East Invitation. Navy 'skeptical' of Big East deal

Houston and SMU high on the Big East

UCF expected to join

[xubrew]

Don't be too certain. From what I've read, they will be creating a separate entity for football, creating divisions, and honoring traditional rivalries. It appears that the "association" is intended to operate as a conference for football purposes. (And I'm assuming, come TV contract expiration, it will be negotiating as such...)


Pretty sure it'll be at least 23 teams by the time it actually starts. TCU is leaving, and Nevada and Fresno State are coming in. My guess is 4 divisions of 5/6 teams each.

One of the issues is that currently, the rules state that for a league to have an exempt championship game, they're only allowed two divisions, and each team must play everyone within their division. So, four divisions wouldn't work IF they wanted the championship game to be exempt. You would assume they would because if not, teams would only be able to schedule 11 games instead of twelve, or forfeit playing in the championship game.

Like I said, they've looked at this before, but couldn't figure how to set it up. Some schools were very concerned. I know many in CUSA didn't want to give up their championship game.

I guess you can have two divisions of eleven teams each, but with the rules stating that you must play everyone within the division, that would mean cutting down the number of OOC games from four down to two because each team would have to play at least ten conference games. CUSA schools rely on the OOC games for their budgets, and on top of that many of hte out of conference schedules are set for the next six years.

On top of everything else, the desired goal in all this was for the winner to be a BCS AQ. When the BCS said no, those who had concerns also said no.

Now, they're going ahead with it. Either everyone who had concerns changed their minds (unlikely) or they've already figured something out to appease everyone. I'm VERY anxious to see how this plays out.

[xavierj]

ESPN ticker just said that Boise and Air Force plan to reject the Big East Invitation. Navy 'skeptical' of Big East deal

Houston and SMU high on the Big East

UCF expected to join

So when it settles the Big East will basically be the old CUSA with the Big East name.

[Masterofreality]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-14/community/os-bianchi-circus-1015-20111014_1_cusa-mountain-west-bcs-bid-tim-tebow

So states an Orlando paper with obvious bias toward UCF- a second rate program at best.

Boise and Air Force ain't comin' so that shoots this article between the eyes.

[Masterofreality]

So when it settles the Big East will basically be the old CUSA with the Big East name.

...With severely diluted basketball.

Matt Doherty, anyone?
-
-
-
-
-
-

I didn't think so.

[MHettel]

How exactly has the Big East succeeded? The conference that survives will be the Big East in name only, and not a single current Big East school will be happy with the result (some short-term $$$ notwithstanding). They won't even be able to stake claim (rightly or wrongly) to being the best basketball conference in the country anymore. If this works the way the Big East hopes, it will amount to "success" only by warped Big East standards. Hell, even PR folks, who are paid to tell absurd lies with straight faces, will have trouble with this one...

So, if you are a Big East basketball team, and it is INEVITABLE that your conference, as it was once constructed will be taken apart, would you rather....


....NOT get anything

or

.....GET MILLIONS in exit fees and NCAA units.

I'm not saying they come out winners here at all. I'm saying what is done is done, and with that as the backdrop, they might as well push for the best outcome available. Thats whats happening.

[bobbiemcgee]

So states an Orlando paper with obvious bias toward UCF- a second rate program at best.

Boise and Air Force ain't comin' so that shoots this article between the eyes.

UCF is the second largest U in America. Beat Georgia in their Bowl game and the Gators in BB.
Guess marinatto had so much free time he decided to just waste it talking with UCF all day:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-big-east-expansion-ucf-20111015,0,5572877.story

[xubrew]

UCF is the second largest U in America. Beat Georgia in their Bowl game and the Gators in BB.
Guess marinatto had so much free time he decided to just waste it talking with UCF all day:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-big-east-expansion-ucf-20111015,0,5572877.story

On the field the Big East would be better with UCF and Boise than they were with Pitt and Syracuse. I don't think that's even debatable.

The problem is that it now looks like that neither team is coming. That may change by this time tomorrow, but as of now it doesn't look like either team is interested. The Big East voted against upping the exit fee. That's a sure sign that teams are looking to leave. If htey weren't they would have agreed to up it. I can understand them not wanting to go to a league whose current members are looking to bail from. If they agree to raise the exit fee and can portray themselves as wanting to keep the BE together, Boise may change their minds....but not until then.

[dc_x]

I read that they need a 75% vote to up the exit fees. I would guess the voting looked like this:

for increase - ND, SJU, UC, Gtown, Nova, Marq, SH, Prov, USF, Depaul (10)
against increase - Louisville, WVU, UConn, Rutgers (4)

To get 75%, they need 11 of 14 votes. I don't see how they get 1 of the bottom 4 to agree as long as those 4 are still trying to get to the B12/SEC/ACC.

[xubrew]

I read that they need a 75% vote to up the exit fees. I would guess the voting looked like this:

for increase - ND, SJU, UC, Gtown, Nova, Marq, SH, Prov, USF, Depaul (10)
against increase - Louisville, WVU, UConn, Rutgers (4)

To get 75%, they need 11 of 14 votes. I don't see how they get 1 of the bottom 4 to agree as long as those 4 are still trying to get to the B12/SEC/ACC.

Correct. It's actually MORE than 75%. So, 75% plus one school.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/10/missouri-taking-steps-toward-the-sec/

'The folks at PowerMizzou.com — the Rivals site covering Missouri — have reported this morning that “the ball will be rolling” regarding a Mizzou move to the SEC by the end of the week and that the move should be completed by the end of the month.

According to the site: “The basic thought is that the only way Missouri does NOT move to the SEC at this point is if the SEC pulls the rug out at the last minute.” Mike Slive isn’t the type of commissioner to do that. And he wouldn’t have allowed things to progress this far with Mizzou if he didn’t already know he had the votes to get them into the league.

Missouri’s board of curators will meet later this week'

Well, we know how WVU and UL will vote on the Big East Exit Fee increase...

[xudash]

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/10/missouri-taking-steps-toward-the-sec/

'The folks at PowerMizzou.com — the Rivals site covering Missouri — have reported this morning that “the ball will be rolling” regarding a Mizzou move to the SEC by the end of the week and that the move should be completed by the end of the month.

According to the site: “The basic thought is that the only way Missouri does NOT move to the SEC at this point is if the SEC pulls the rug out at the last minute.” Mike Slive isn’t the type of commissioner to do that. And he wouldn’t have allowed things to progress this far with Mizzou if he didn’t already know he had the votes to get them into the league.

Missouri’s board of curators will meet later this week'

Well, we know how WVU and UL will vote on the Big East Exit Fee increase...

How would any football program in its right mind accept an invitation to the BE at this point?

This also represents a logical sequence of events, as it would almost be downright cruel to delay the Mizzou decision enough to allow the BE to move forward with its invitations, only then to pull the trigger on Mizzou, which will pull the trigger on at least one of the BE schools dying to get out.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

How would any football program in its right mind accept an invitation to the BE at this point?

This also represents a logical sequence of events, as it would almost be downright cruel to delay the Mizzou decision enough to allow the BE to move forward with its invitations, only then to pull the trigger on Mizzou, which will pull the trigger on at least one of the BE schools dying to get out.

Exactly. Boise and the others must think long and hard about paying their exit fee to join a conference that will likely lose WVU and UL in the coming months and their BCS AQ in the coming years. Is it worth it? I don't think so

[STL_XUfan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sports/ncaafootball/missouri-moves-closer-to-joining-sec.html?_r=4&ref=sports

I would put more stock in this except for the fact that Mizzou seems to like scream from mountain top where they are going before they are actually invited. Curious to see if the SEC votes are really there, and whether or not they can leave this year or have to play 1 more year in the Big Xii.

[xudash]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sports/ncaafootball/missouri-moves-closer-to-joining-sec.html?_r=4&ref=sports

I would put more stock in this except for the fact that Mizzou seems to like scream from mountain top where they are going before they are actually invited. Curious to see if the SEC votes are really there, and whether or not they can leave this year or have to play 1 more year in the Big Xii.

What are you trying to reference in the Times?

[STL_XUfan]

What are you trying to reference in the Times?

The person said that Missouri’s decision to apply for membership to the SEC was “inevitable and imminent,”

[xubrew]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/sports/ncaafootball/missouri-moves-closer-to-joining-sec.html?_r=4&ref=sports

I would put more stock in this except for the fact that Mizzou seems to like scream from mountain top where they are going before they are actually invited. Curious to see if the SEC votes are really there, and whether or not they can leave this year or have to play 1 more year in the Big Xii.

That's something that Mizzou and the media have in common. They like to report things before they happen. Well, that's not even true. They like to report things that ultimately end up not happening. Being first is more important than being right.

Personally, I think all this is stupid, and it's laying the seeds for the next round of conference shifts down the road. We do this every six or seven years, it seems.

I predict that Mizzou's athletic department will not be elevated one iota. In six years, they'll still be ranked in the teens and twenties every now and then, just like they are now. Missouri v Florida or Tennessee or LSU isn't necessarily a bad game, but it's not nearly as good as Mizzou v Kansas. It seems almost surreal that Mizzou v Florida, South Carolina, Auburn, etc will now be conference games. Not a bad bowl game. Not a bad OOC game. But there is nothing exciting about that as a conference game.

The same can be said for several teams that are moving. They're not going to elevate their programs by doing it. I can name more examples of teams that moved, and either stayed the same or became worse, than I can of teams that actually elevated their programs.

-Virginia Tech and Miami both played in the national championship game as Big East members. Miami has fallen off the face of the earth, and VA Tech, while good, has never matched their past success.

-Boston College....this one is too easy.

-Louisville and Cincinnati certainly elevated their football programs. But in basketball, UC is worse, and Louisville really isn't any better. Their FF appearance was a member of CUSA. They've had some outstanding years, and I won't go so far to say it wasn't a good move for them, but they're not substantially better than they were before.

Same with Marquette.

Same with DePaul.

Same with Charlotte.

Same with SLU.

Memphis stayed put. They haven't done too bad. Back to back to back Elite Eights and a championshiip appearance in basketball. Their football team is basically like an intramural team, but it was never good in the first place.


Truth be told, I hate all this crap. I hate that it is being talked about more than the actual games. Whatever is going to happen, I just wish it would so people would stop obsessing over it. In the grand scheme of things, I dont' think any of the programs will end up all that much better off than they were before. In some cases, I think they'll be worse off, or the same, but without their traditional rivals.

It's also sewing the seeds for the next realignment. When it's time to negotiate their next TV deal, the ACC will hammer out a monster deal, especially since they can claim the states of Pennsylvania and New York now. Even though those are technically in the "ACC Market" there are no ACC teams in those cities. The Wake vs Miami basketball game will be on in NYC, but I don't imagine too many people will watch it. When the ratings go down, the TV networks aren't going to fork out that much money when it's time to negotiate the next round of contracts. Suddenly, there will be a need to slim down the league and the size of its geography. That's what I think we'll see in about ten years.

Maybe we should just go FIFA style. Have eight or nine pots every year, and draw teams into nine team leagues. That's the conference. That's nonsense, but so is playing musical chairs every seven to ten years.

[BMoreX]

McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
Big East approves exit fee increase to $10M contingent on Navy, Air Force joining league sources told @CBSSports bit.ly/nj6fnu
3 minutes ago

[GoMuskies]

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111017-big-east-invites-uh

Houston gets a Big East invite.

[bleedXblue]

Looks like Mizzou on the move to the SEC per ESPN.

Let the next wave of Big East defections begin.

I think it's a no brainer....Louisville to the Big 12.

While they're at it, they should grab WVU and Boise for a 12 team league.

[xubrew]

McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
Big East approves exit fee increase to $10M contingent on Navy, Air Force joining league sources told @CBSSports bit.ly/nj6fnu
3 minutes ago

TRANSLATION: In order to negotiate the exit fee back down to $5 million, schools who leave for another conference must play one home-and-home in football and two home-and-homes in basketball against remaining conference opponents over the next several years.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Looks like Mizzou on the move to the SEC per ESPN.

Let the next wave of Big East defections begin.

I think it's a no brainer....Louisville to the Big 12.

While they're at it, they should grab WVU and Boise for a 12 team league.

Love it. UL will be going to the Big 12, possibly WVU/Cincy/BYU as well.

I find it hard to believe Boise or Air Force are going to join a conference across the country that is losing key members. Houston, UCF, and SMU are desperate so they still might, but it would still leave the Big East with very few football playing members.

Hopefully the basketball schools branch off, keep the Big East name, and invite some teams...

[xcellentx]

If you are SMU, Houston, or UCF, I can see why you would go to the Big East. There is at least the potential for more money. That said, the Big East is done in football if any of the big teams leave and you don't want to be begging C-USA to come back.

What does Boise gain by going to the Big East? If they keep their AQ status then sure, they beat up on a weak Big East and get to go to the BCS even if they lose a few games. But they have already been burned once and I don't think they want to go to the Big East and get burned again.

[xubrew]

If you are SMU, Houston, or UCF, I can see why you would go to the Big East. There is at least the potential for more money. That said, the Big East is done in football if any of the big teams leave and you don't want to be begging C-USA to come back.

What does Boise gain by going to the Big East? If they keep their AQ status then sure, they beat up on a weak Big East and get to go to the BCS even if they lose a few games. But they have already been burned once and I don't think they want to go to the Big East and get burned again.

One of the things that will help Boise out is that they're not joining as full members. If the BE loses Louisville, WVU, Rutgers and UConn, which is the worst case scenario, the football lineup would potentially look like this....

UC
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU
Navy
Air force
Boise

That's probably still a little better than what the Mountain West lineup would be. That's also the WORST CASE scenario. If the worst case is still better than your current situation, then go. If they keep the BCS AQ status, it's really a no-brainer for Boise.

Now, having said that, the Big East has a lot of work to do in order to make it happen, and competency hasn't exactly been a strength of theirs lately.

[Aughnanure]

As a Marquette fan, here's hoping this is the end and the bball schools keep the Big East name and invite you guys, along with some other to form a 12-16 team bball power conference. There is talk that the bball-onlies have a plan ready once the split happens, and that this plan may include some effort to go grab Gonzaga (and some close-ish school) somehow.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

As a Marquette fan, here's hoping this is the end and the bball schools keep the Big East name and invite you guys, along with some other to form a 12-16 team bball power conference. There is talk that the bball-onlies have a plan ready once the split happens, and that this plan may include some effort to go grab Gonzaga (and some close-ish school) somehow.

That would be best case scenario. Hopefully the zombie that is Big East football continues its collapse.

Let the dominoes fall.

[SM#24]

Love it. UL will be going to the Big 12, possibly WVU/Cincy/BYU as well.


Worst case for Xavier:
The B12 may only take BYU and stick at 10 for a while (Texas' wish).
ND declines an all-sports ACC invite, and the ACC remains at 14.
Thus, no more BE defections.
BE adds Boise, Navy, Air Force as football only and Houston, SMU and UCF for all.
Gtown, Nova, St John's ND, still get to play against UConn & Louisville and prefer that over the Bball only league.

[xcellentx]

One of the things that will help Boise out is that they're not joining as full members. If the BE loses Louisville, WVU, Rutgers and UConn, which is the worst case scenario, the football lineup would potentially look like this....

UC
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU
Navy
Air force
Boise

That's probably still a little better than what the Mountain West lineup would be. That's also the WORST CASE scenario. If the worst case is still better than your current situation, then go. If they keep the BCS AQ status, it's really a no-brainer for Boise.

Now, having said that, the Big East has a lot of work to do in order to make it happen, and competency hasn't exactly been a strength of theirs lately.

That is only the worst case scenario if those other teams join, which isn't a given either. At this point it is in Boise's interest to sit back and wait. With Missouri reportedly to the SEC, WVU or Louisville to the Big 12 isn't impossible. That could keep some of these other teams from joining. With the MWC and C-USA combining in football, Boise will have a chance to play most of those teams right now.

I agree, if you can guarentee to Boise that they will be in a league with AQ status for 5-10 years, I agree it is a no brainer. But that is anything but a given.

[xubrew]

I kind of think they are all sitting back and waiting. I guess we'll see what Houston does. The league did vote to increase the exit fees, but that doesn't really mean a whole lot.

Each Big East team makes about $8.5 million per year in tournament revenue, and they would forfeit that if they left. So, if you add that to the exit fee, schools are really giving up $18.5 million to join a new league. Despite that, I think all six of them would be packed and ready to go at a second's notice if the Big Twelve, ACC or SEC came calling.

[xudash]

That is only the worst case scenario if those other teams join, which isn't a given either. At this point it is in Boise's interest to sit back and wait. With Missouri reportedly to the SEC, WVU or Louisville to the Big 12 isn't impossible. That could keep some of these other teams from joining. With the MWC and C-USA combining in football, Boise will have a chance to play most of those teams right now.

I agree, if you can guarentee to Boise that they will be in a league with AQ status for 5-10 years, I agree it is a no brainer. But that is anything but a given.

The BCS contract, including AQ status, comes up again in 2013. Nobody in the BE can guarantee Boise that the BE will retain AQ status beyond the 2012 and 2013 seasons, especially when it looks like the conference is speeding in the exact opposite direction.

By way of background, based mainly on the strength of Transgreasy being commish at the time, the BE was provided an AQ exemption for a couple years recently. The BE also suffered a true football disaster when UConn sh!t the bed in every regard - on field performance and ticket sales - for its BCS bowl. Slive and Delaney, in particular, see a BE BCS AQ bid as an absolute waste of a bid.

Assuming the Big XII comes calling on the BE after the SEC reels in Mizzou, anything the BE does in football at that point will be much closer to a non-BCS caliber league than it will be to one of the remaining 5 BCS leagues. What kind of television comes with that? Is it enough to help leverage the basketball side of the television contract? Is that enough when you take into account the larger denominator for allocating those monies to the basketball-involved member schools?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

thebeatofsports the beat of sports
Marinatto dropped nugget that not opposed to expanding basketball side down the road. If BE adds UCF, SMU, Houston to make 17.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Marinatto said he won't "close the door" on further expansion to strengthen Big East hoops.

[xudash]

thebeatofsports the beat of sports
Marinatto dropped nugget that not opposed to expanding basketball side down the road. If BE adds UCF, SMU, Houston to make 17.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Marinatto said he won't "close the door" on further expansion to strengthen Big East hoops.

That would be the first official rumor-based signal that the probability of Xavier moving to the BE has gone north of 50%. Being that it is official, in the sense that it is published, and rumor-based, in the sense that it's a text from a reporter from the Times, it is officially a signal that has a certain amount of rumorish truth to it.

Then again, I might be babbling with my keyboard from being giddy. Thamel is normally clued into what's going on in Providence.

[outsideobserver11]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7119127/big-east-raises-exit-fee-seeks-12-football-teams

apparently the vote to raise the exit fee was unanimous...that doesn't sound too positive for the conference falling apart.

[xubrew]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7119127/big-east-raises-exit-fee-seeks-12-football-teams

apparently the vote to raise the exit fee was unanimous...that doesn't sound too positive for the conference falling apart.

That doesn't mean a whole lot. The exit fees are always negotiable. If they continue to schedule BE teams home and home in football and basketball, they can get that rate reduced.

I believe Louisville took an absolute bath when they left CUSA. They gave up all their tournament earnings, and paid a fee on top of that. They'd do it again. Cincinnati continued to play teams like Memphis and UAB, so theirs wasn't so rough. Louisville opted to give up more money and just cut ties entirely. They'd have no trouble paying the raised exit fee.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
More ESPN fail: Scroll reports WVU & Louisville headed to Big 12 if Mizzou accepts Big East offer. Via @hooptveast twitpic.com/721n34

CardChronicle Mike Rutherford
Louisville leaving for Big 12 would likely continue talk of new bball conf. featuring teams from BE, A-10, C-USA. Lot at stake here.

[SixFig]

Raise your hand if you think ESPN will say anything negative about the future of the Big East.

[xubrew]

This does raise the question....

Is it wise for anyone to spend millions of bucks to get into the Big East, when other schools are spending tens of millions to get out of it?? (half kidding)

[waggy]

Would UC pull a "Villanova"?

Should I unban Eastside J?

[X-band '01]

That would be awesome if the Big East has part of Earth and the whole planet Houston.

http://www.i-mockery.com/generalzod/sticker-large.gif

[muskiefan82]

That would be awesome if the Big East has part of Earth and the whole planet Houston.

http://www.i-mockery.com/generalzod/sticker-large.gif

Reps given for the Kneel before Zod mention. Nice.

[Muskied]

Reps given for the Kneel before Zod mention. Nice.

Are you telling me the Planet Houston wouldn't win the A10? Sorry, been too long.

[LA Muskie]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7119127/big-east-raises-exit-fee-seeks-12-football-teams

apparently the vote to raise the exit fee was unanimous...that doesn't sound too positive for the conference falling apart.
It's all in the fine print:


The increase in the exit fee to $10 million will be triggered in the event a current football member departs after a new member is signed, Marinatto said.

Put another way, the Big East told its members to sh!t or get off the pot.

And, regardless, I don't think a $10 million exit fee will keep any of the rumored departees from leaving. They likely would make that back within 1-2 years. It's more of an "inconvenience" fee to the remaining schools than anything else.

[paulxu]

The B12 may only take BYU and stick at 10 for a while (Texas' wish).

It's really hard to imagine them not wanting the $ from a 12 team 2 division playoff game.

[bleedXblue]

Would UC pull a "Villanova"?

Should I unban Eastside J?

UC does not have the "pull" in the Big East that a Villanova has IMHO.

Vilianova has been a league member for many, many years.

[xudash]

It's really hard to imagine them not wanting the $ from a 12 team 2 division playoff game.

Agreed. Plus I thought there was a real sticking point with the inflexibility that BYU brings when it comes to scheduling.

Texas holds many cards, but probably can't fully exercise their leverage at this point. They've used up a ton of political (figurative, not literal) capital already, with all their prior noise about going independent with their LHN or moving to another conference.

Getting back to 12 by picking up the better programs from among those now available makes sense.

[bleedXblue]

I wish this conference would just go away. You know that the Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac 10 and B12 are all just laughing at the mess that they're in. Why Notre Dame for all "other" sports ? Why some basketball only schools and a handful of mid level football programs ? I mean really, they've brought all of this upon themselves by not creating a product that's on a level playing field with their competitors.

And they're proposing to do more of it by potentially adding new members who will be joining for football only. Really ? Again ? Haven't you learned from your mistakes ?

Why did Pitt and Syracuse bolt ? It's simple. Because the stability of the ACC was much more appealing to them. All members are full time participants in all sports. It delivers consistentcy and simplicity for members, all who have an equal opportunity to contribute to the revenue pool.

I don't know how this league survives for the long haul. They simply don't a sound game plan or strategy that's sustainable in today's environment.

The only thing right now that makes sense to me (Xavier loyalities aside) is the basketball only schools making a move to solidify their position for the next 10-15 years.

There's plently of money to go around for a TV deal with a really solid 10-12 team conference. Adding X, UD, Butler, Richmond and the best CAA team makes sense.

Just my two cents. Doubt it will happen as the basketball only schools are going to hang on until the bitter end. But by that time, it may be too late.

[X-band '01]

It's really hard to imagine them not wanting the $ from a 12 team 2 division playoff game.

Yeah, but if you think crowds at ACC Championship games are bad, wait until you see about 5,000 fans in Giants Stadium watching UC play SMU for the Big East title. 3 of those people will be Garvin, Snipe and Kahns.

[LA Muskie]

While I tend to agree that the Big East has become a bit of a joke, I don't think any of us over here in Muskieland are looking at this entirely objectively.

[JTG]

Was listening to college sports network on Sirius radio today. They were discussing the fact that Comcast bought NBC. NBC, and Versus are looking to compete with ESPN, but don't have much in the way of sports inventory. If NBC signed the Big East to their next sports contract, they could broadcast all 12 ND games, plus 12 Big East games on Versus, soon to be renamed NBC Sports Channel. This all hinges on NBC telling ND the only way they renew NDs TV contract is if the join the Big East. That way, Big East keeps Automatic qualifier status, and ND skates to a BSC bowl game every year, beating up on the stiffs left in the Big East.
Maybe crazy, but NBC is under new management, none of whom are buddy buddy with ND. If this somehow happens the Big East doesn't have to do squat. And X will never become a member.

[bobbiemcgee]

ND does pretty much what they want to. Do you really think there wouldn't be a host of suitors for ND Football if NBC dropped them? They don't need anybody for FB.

[xubrew]

I think the basketball only schools are in a very solid position. They're staying in the Big East. Even if all the other football members leave, they'll remain as they are now.

I don't see what breaking away accomplishes. It means walking away from the exit fees and the previous tournament revenue. In fact, they'd be forced to dish out exit fees. The eight of them could leave and start their own conference from scratch, or the eight of them could stay and not have to walk away from any past revenue. Even if every football school leaves, they're still in much better shape for not leaving themselves. They retain all the revenue if they stay. I think they'd be out of their minds to break off at this point.

I'd say they're in a pretty good position.

[bleedXblue]

I think the basketball only schools are in a very solid position. They're staying in the Big East. Even if all the other football members leave, they'll remain as they are now.

I don't see what breaking away accomplishes. It means walking away from the exit fees and the previous tournament revenue. In fact, they'd be forced to dish out exit fees. The eight of them could leave and start their own conference from scratch, or the eight of them could stay and not have to walk away from any past revenue. Even if every football school leaves, they're still in much better shape for not leaving themselves. They retain all the revenue if they stay. I think they'd be out of their minds to break off at this point.

I'd say they're in a pretty good position.

I think there comes a point in time where you have to decide if you want to dictate your future or have your future dictated to you.

[Masterofreality]

I wish this conference would just go away. You know that the Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac 10 and B12 are all just laughing at the mess that they're in.

Mike Francesa on WFAN in New York yesterday said the Big East is "now officially a farce."


Why some basketball only schools and a handful of mid level football programs ? I mean really, they've brought all of this upon themselves by not creating a product that's on a level playing field with their competitors.


They also brought it upon themselves by rejecting a fat TV contract offer from ESPN last year. That pissed the four letter network off so much that they helped engineer Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC. - Documented

Greedy pigs become hogs- and they get slaughtered.

[GoMuskies]

That way, Big East keeps Automatic qualifier status, and ND skates to a BSC bowl game every year, beating up on the stiffs left in the Big East.

ND lost to USF this year and lost to UConn the last time they played them. They haven't exactly dominated Navy of late. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think ND would have an easy time in what remains of the Big East.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

I haven't read much of this thread but here's a dollars and cents view from the Big East B-ball schools point of view.

The basketball schools will not break off... They will wait to the bitter end.

Why?

Because there is a six year rolling window for conference to gather NCAA credits for participation in the NCAA tournament. Payouts for each conference which are distributed equally to all members of that conference are determined by how many games each respective conference plays in the NCAA tournament over a six year rolling period. So for example this year the big east is getting credit for all games played from 2005-2011. In the window ending in 2010 the Big East had collected 109 credits worth ~$24 million ($1.5 million per school). In 2011 that number should increase to close to $27 million.


Here's the catch;

When a team LEAVES a conference it does not transfer it's NCAA credits; those credits stay with the conference they used to be affiliated with until the rolling 6 year cycle ends.

Basically by staying put and waiting for the inevitable implosion of Big East football the Bball schools are ensuring their share of the NCAA tournament credits. Their shares of those disbursements would double if all remaining 6 football playing schools left. Not to mention they would be the schools collecting the $5million exit fee per school (assuming it's not raised to $10 for football). In essence waiting for the football side to collapse is smart business for the basketball schools... they will be set to collect upwards of $3million per year for each school for rolling NCAA basketball credits and $40 million in exit fees.

Bottom line Big East bball schools will be getting a lot of money if they play their cards right and wait.

Rough Estimate of Windfall cash per basketball school:

$5 Share of Exit Fees
~$18 six year rolling credits
~ 23 Million if the Big East Breaks up


Without breakup:
$9 Million 1/16 of rolling NCAA credits for 6 year period (1.5 per year)

[xudash]

ND lost to USF this year and lost to UConn the last time they played them. They haven't exactly dominated Navy of late. I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think ND would have an easy time in what remains of the Big East.

I understand the logic on the part of an ND fan who might otherwise be looking for an easy road to a BCS bowl, but, given that ND has and is resisting the B1G and also appears to be indifferent towards the ACC, I doubt that the BE has enough stability and economic clout to be attractive to them.

ND's world - at least as its defined in terms of money and economic advantage - has been turned on its head. The conference distributions taking place now dwarf ND's NBC deal.

I'm not slamming ND; this is just the reality we live in now.

[xudash]

M3P, When I posted my not-so-well-received "clarity" thread a little while ago, it was because of what you posted.

Though it is no great revelation, the point you're making and I was trying to make was that I believe we'll ultimately hook up with the BE hoops schools, but it may not be this time around, due to what's at stake, as you broke it down.

With that noted, based on what we know now, it still could happen this time around for two reasons:


John Marinatto apparently just quipped (NYT reporter tweeting it) that they may consider adding hoops schools as well; and
Mizzou to the SEC will most likely bleed the BE more, assuming the Big XII goes to 12 and especially if BYU is not in that mix.


On that note, given how close the Big XII came to collapsing, I would move to get back to 12 now, taking the best programs available and locking the thing up with their large exit fee. Why wait?

[xubrew]

I haven't read much of this thread but here's a dollars and cents view from the Big East B-ball schools point of view.

The basketball schools will not break off... They will wait to the bitter end.

Why?

Because there is a six year rolling window for conference to gather NCAA credits for participation in the NCAA tournament. Payouts for each conference which are distributed equally to all members of that conference are determined by how many games each respective conference plays in the NCAA tournament over a six year rolling period. So for example this year the big east is getting credit for all games played from 2005-2011. In the window ending in 2010 the Big East had collected 109 credits worth ~$24 million ($1.5 million per school). In 2011 that number should increase to close to $27 million.


Here's the catch;

When a team LEAVES a conference it does not transfer it's NCAA credits; those credits stay with the conference they used to be affiliated with until the rolling 6 year cycle ends.

Basically by staying put and waiting for the inevitable implosion of Big East football the Bball schools are ensuring their share of the NCAA tournament credits. Their shares of those disbursements would double if all remaining 6 football playing schools left. Not to mention they would be the schools collecting the $5million exit fee per school (assuming it's not raised to $10 for football). In essence waiting for the football side to collapse is smart business for the basketball schools... they will be set to collect upwards of $3million per year for each school for rolling NCAA basketball credits and $40 million in exit fees.

Bottom line Big East bball schools will be getting a lot of money if they play their cards right and wait.

Rough Estimate of Windfall cash per basketball school:

$5 Share of Exit Fees
~$18 six year rolling credits
~ 23 Million if the Big East Breaks up


Without breakup:
$9 Million 1/16 of rolling NCAA credits for 6 year period (1.5 per year)

Yes.

It should also be pointed out that they have a ton of pull in the current Big East format. The Big East can't bring anyone in as a full member without thier say-so. People seem to think that the basketball schools should split off so they can call their own shots. The thing is, they're already calling their own shots.

Being affiliated with football, even sub par football, can enrich the overall TV contract. With that in mind, I can see why they don't want to get rid of it.

The way I look at it is that if they remain in the BE, they ALWAYS have the option of breaking off. It doesn't matter if they do it today, tomorrow, or in ten years.

If they break off, they NEVER have the option of returning. And they give up the tournament revenue. And they give up the BE name. And they walk away from something that could enrich the overall future TV contract.

There is no reason for the basketball schools to leave right now. None. It's basically walking away from tens of millions of dollars, to potentially end up in a league that consists the eight of them and two to four other schools, when they can just stay put, MAKE money, and end up in a league that consists of the eight of them and whatever other full BE members remain, along with whomever THEY DECIDE to also invite as full members.

The latter makes tons more sense.

[Muskie]

While I tend to agree that the Big East has become a bit of a joke, I don't think any of us over here in Muskieland are looking at this entirely objectively.

touche. :shield:

[Founding Father]

I can understand the 7 bball only plus ND voting together to add in football only members but I don't understand why they would vote to add in full members right now, especially when you look at the rumored full member teams.

[xavierj]

I understand the logic on the part of an ND fan who might otherwise be looking for an easy road to a BCS bowl, but, given that ND has and is resisting the B1G and also appears to be indifferent towards the ACC, I doubt that the BE has enough stability and economic clout to be attractive to them.

ND's world - at least as its defined in terms of money and economic advantage - has been turned on its head. The conference distributions taking place now dwarf ND's NBC deal.

I'm not slamming ND; this is just the reality we live in now.

Yeah and ND still profits a ton more than any current Big East member. If ND thought they needed to join a conference, they would have. They haven't and they won't anytime soon. That's just the reality that Notre Dame lives in. I think Notre Dame is special because they are different than all other college football teams. They would rather keep that difference than to water it down and be like everyone else. They may not be what they used to be, but they still are a pretty unique place when it comes to football.

[xcellentx]

At this point ND would be crazy to join the Big East as a full member. They gain nothing from that. They already have their own AQ status. If they want to beat up on bad teams on their way to a BCS bowl, they could do that now. I doubt the Big East would be an increase in TV revenue.

ND could also go where ever they want, so why pick a conference that is falling apart?

I still think that it makes sense to go to the Big Ten. You have the right geography, you can make more TV money, and you already play Michigan, MSU, and Purdue on a regular basis. I don't know if it will happen any time soon, but I think it will happen. There is just too much money to be gained if it happens.

[xubrew]

At this point ND would be crazy to join the Big East as a full member. They gain nothing from that. They already have their own AQ status. If they want to beat up on bad teams on their way to a BCS bowl, they could do that now. I doubt the Big East would be an increase in TV revenue.

ND could also go where ever they want, so why pick a conference that is falling apart?

I still think that it makes sense to go to the Big Ten. You have the right geography, you can make more TV money, and you already play Michigan, MSU, and Purdue on a regular basis. I don't know if it will happen any time soon, but I think it will happen. There is just too much money to be gained if it happens.

Just to clarify, Notre Dame IS a full Big East member. They're not affiliate members. They are every bit as much a member as Rutgers and UC.

They just choose not to play football within the Big East conference. I believe even with that, they have to play a certain number of Big East teams every year. It's not a full schedule, but that's why they're playing USF and Pitt.

[xcellentx]

Just to clarify, Notre Dame IS a full Big East member. They're not affiliate members. They are every bit as much a member as Rutgers and UC.

They just choose not to play football within the Big East conference. I believe even with that, they have to play a certain number of Big East teams every year. It's not a full schedule, but that's why they're playing USF and Pitt.

Sorry, you are correct they are a full member technically. They are however unlike any other member in that they are allowed to stay independent in football, and I assume that they would be able to leave the conference without the same sort of penalties that Syracuse and Pitt are induring.

I am not sure about the having to play the Big East a certain amount as they have only played 2 Big East teams every year since 2008. That said, they still play 3 Big Ten schools every year, and that seems to be more important to them than any of the Big East rivalries.

[xubrew]

Sorry, you are correct they are a full member technically. They are however unlike any other member in that they are allowed to stay independent in football, and I assume that they would be able to leave the conference without the same sort of penalties that Syracuse and Pitt are induring.

I am not sure about the having to play the Big East a certain amount as they have only played 2 Big East teams every year since 2008. That said, they still play 3 Big Ten schools every year, and that seems to be more important to them than any of the Big East rivalries.

If ND left the BE, technically speaking they'd have the same kind of penalties. It's just that if they agree to do something like...say....play all the remaining football members in a home and home once over the next ten years, the ten million dollars will be reduced to about zero.

Another technicality, they're what is called a partial member in football. That's the technicality. The practicality is that they play one or two BE teams a year, and are tied in with all the non-BCS Big East bowl bids. In other words, a bowl like the Champs Sports Bowl (which was called the Sun Bowl before this year) that is tied in with the Big East can invite ND instead. Last year, they did. If you look at ND's bowl history for hte past fifteen years or so, they're all either BCS games or Big East bowls (with the one exception being the Hawaii Bowl).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MattKCTV5 Matt Stewart
We should find out today in Missouri decides to bolt the Big 12 and go to the SEC. Stay tuned to Twitter and KCTV5.com after 4pm.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15739280/missouri-curators-meeting-amid-talk-about-sec-bid?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


ESPN analyst and former Louisville coach Lee Corso has a message for the Big 12: "What are you waiting for?"
His message for the Big 12: What are you waiting for?

His message for UofL: Get out of the Big East as quick as possible and get over to the Big 12.

http://louisville.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1281679

[xubrew]

Louisville to the Big Twelve should be a no-brainer.

Then again, I sometimes think that Lee Corso has no brain. He's endorsing UofL to the Big Twelve.

That alone should give UofL some pause in regards to bolting.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"Big East coaches see the nation's best basketball conference dying slowly"
http://www.nj.com/college-basketball/index.ssf/2011/10/politi_big_easts_coaches_see_the_nations_best_bask etball_conference_dying_slowly.html

"The Big East started as a basketball league, but there is not a single expansion scenario being discussed that improves the basketball product. John Marinatto, captain of this Titanic, is trying to create a 12-team football conference, with names like Central Florida, Houston and SMU joining the league for all sports.

So, conceivably, the 16-team basketball Big East could grow to 19 before Pitt and Syracuse leave. Or even more. “Anything is possible,” Marinatto said. “We’ve actually done models for 24.”

He explained that, in some ways, a 19-team Big East is easier for scheduling purposes than a 16-team league because “if you have a 19-team basketball conference, you play everybody once.” So, in this model, Connecticut plays Syracuse as many times as DePaul plays SMU. Marinatto is not just in over his head. He’s swimming toward the bottom of the pool.

Most of the coaches think 16 is too many. Twenty-four? “Why the hell have a league?” West Virginia coach Bob Huggins said when presented with that scenario. “Why the hell don’t we all just go independent then? Yeah, I think there’s a point where enough’s enough.”

Huggins, for what it’s worth, reached that point at 10. “I heard 20, now 24,” UConn coach Jim Calhoun cracked in an auctioneer’s voice. “Can I get 30? Can I get 30?”

[waggy]

A day after announcing the conference had hiked its exit fee to $10 million, Marinatto floated the idea that the conference's basketball league could eventually swell to 24 members. And he reiterated that Pitt and Syracuse won't be leaving for the before their 27-month waiting period expires.

The above comes from the Harford Courant at yesterdays BE media day. I can't believe this hasn't been posted here yet. I sent a PM to Dash about it yesterday, but he must've not gotten it, or doesn't think it means much.

I read it to mean that the BBall schools want to keep an equal ratio of BBall only to FBall schools, which is the way it has always been. If BE football survives, and gets to 12, then they probably add BBall only schools as well.

[xubrew]

If Xavier receives an invite from the Big East, I think the BE must first prove themselves to be sane before XU commits. They've done very little in the past two months to demonstrate their sanity.

[paulxu]

For the love of God...go Mizzou.
Go to 12, Big 12.
Die BE football so we can get this all over with.

[XUglow]

For the love of God...go Mizzou.
Go to 12, Big 12.
Die BE football so we can get this all over with.

Latest plan is to put MU in SEC East but change Arkansas to their permanent West opponent. That would make TAMU and USCe permanent opponents.

[paulxu]

Was there ever any discussion about Ala/Aub to the East if Mizzou came in?
At least that would make more geographical sense.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

For the love of God...go Mizzou.
Go to 12, Big 12.
Die BE football so we can get this all over with.

This thing is just going to keep dragging out

NYDNDickWeiss Dick Weiss
no official word on missouri to sec until tomorrow

[xavierj]

This thing is just going to keep dragging out

NYDNDickWeiss Dick Weiss
no official word on missouri to sec until tomorrow

yeah but they will not stay in big 12. How could they?

[xudash]

The above comes from the Harford Courant at yesterdays BE media day. I can't believe this hasn't been posted here yet. I sent a PM to Dash about it yesterday, but he must've not gotten it, or doesn't think it means much.

I read it to mean that the BBall schools want to keep an equal ratio of BBall only to FBall schools, which is the way it has always been. If BE football survives, and gets to 12, then they probably add BBall only schools as well.

Thanks for the PM waggy. I've been buried the last couple days and have been in and out of checking in around here.

I think it means a lot in that the BE's leadership might finally be waking up to the need of having this aspect of the league addressed, but I don't know that this buffoon can make up his mind or execute properly on any strategy the President's drop into his lap.

[LA Muskie]

I've got ESPN on in my office, and they just showed a long quote by Geno Auriemma in which he BLASTS Notre Dame for causing the death of the Big East -- basically saying that they had the ability to keep the conference together but they don't care at all about the conference.

Fact is, he's right. But I don't think ND ever gave the impression otherwise. It seems to me that this is the typical situation of the guy saying he doesn't want anything serious, and the girl hoping that if she holds out long enough, he'll change his mind and settle down with her.

[Muskie]

I think the Big East leadership is also to blame. But can see the ND portion of responsibility.

[principal]

If Xavier receives an invite from the Big East, I think the BE must first prove themselves to be sane before XU commits. They've done very little in the past two months to demonstrate their sanity.

I am thisclose to holding the view that X accept an invite to the BE almost no matter what, even if it swells to a seemingly unsustainable 24 teams. Why? I see only two real outcomes, both of which are better than the A-10:

1. The league somehow manages to stay together as a hyrbrid, with or without AQ status. If they maintain the AQ status I don't see how it could be a bad thing. But even if they lose it, which I believe is most likely, and even if this means UCONN, WV, L'Ville, etc all leave, we are still in a league with desirable BE basketball teams such as G'Town, Villanova, etc. And if it goes to 24 they aren't just going to invite X, they will invite other good basketball teams.

2. If the football teams do part, the sooner we get in the more shared revenue/units/etc. are ours to share. We are also on the inside, rather than the outside, of what would eventually become the best non-Big 6 basketball league in the country. How is that a bad thing? Sure, the departure of the football schools could, over time, result in a worsened basketball league, but I fail to see how it will become worse than the current A-10. Whatever causes the Georgetown's of the world to become worse programs in the new world of conference affiliation should similarly degrade the quality of the teams in the current A-10, etc. A degraded G'Town/Villanova/etc is better than a degraded Dayton/Richmond/etc.

So what's to lose by joining?

[muskienick]

How bad are East Carolina, Central Florida, and a few of the others the BE is considering for full membership? If they include Temple, Memphis, and a few others noted for their basketball, then, I would have to agree that it's a no-brainer since there would never be a time when we'd have to play a lowly team like LaSalle or Fordham twice in the same Conference season with the numbers in the high teens or 20's.

How they would manage 24 teams for basketball is......well, unimaginable! It would be impossible to play all the other members of the Conference during a single season. I could possibly see each member with a 17-game Conference season if there were two 12-team divisions. You would play everybody in your division once (11 games) and 6 of the 12 teams in the other division every other year rotating home and away. I see no advantage to having four 6-team divisions (like the BE Commissioner suggested) other than to give 4 fan bases the bragging rights each season of winning a Big East Divisional chamnpionship. If that is so important, why not have six divisions of four teams each and make six fan bases happy every year (or eight divisions of three teams each, 12 divisions of 2 teams each, 24 1-team divisions and everybody is a champ!)?

It is ridiculous!

I'd almost definitely prefer a streamlined A-10. Get us down to the most respected and competitive 9 or 10 members and I would be quite happy to wait for something other than membership in a 24-team Big East. Eventually, probably after just 2-3 seasons, a couple of those two dozen inmates will want to escape from that asylum! And a solid A-10 would be a nice landing strip for the best of the "escapees."

The only caveats I have to staying put are:
1) the historical reluctance of the A-10 to rid the Conference of its sources of embarrassment and
2) the possibility that if XU isn't among those who accept an invitation to join a bloated BE, it might lose the chance to be a member of a newly great BB Big East when it ceases to function as a hybrid after the 24- or 22-, or 19-member plan falls completely apart after a few short years.

[xudash]

If Xavier receives an invite from the Big East, I think the BE must first prove themselves to be sane before XU commits. They've done very little in the past two months to demonstrate their sanity.

They'll get to sanity. What is extremely valuable is their economic value. We won't necessarily get anything from what's there now, but we'll know our partners have economic stability. EDIT: I see your point above about rolling Unit distributions, so who knows.

That versus the reality of waiting for LaSalle to address Tom Gola Arena three decades from now.

[Masterofreality]

That versus the reality of waiting for LaSalle to address Tom Gola Arena three decades from now.

At least F-M will soon have a new Option with the Barclays Center. :rolleyes:

Ha! That's only Bronx to Brooklyn. Piece of Cake:

Take Bronx River Parkway to the Bruckner to the Triboro Bridge to the BQE to Flatbush- during rush hour to make a 7:00pm game. There's never any traffic on that route, nor ever any construction. :rolleyes::D:eek:

[SixFig]

At least F-M will soon have a new Option with the Barclays Center. :rolleyes:

Ha! That's only Bronx to Brooklyn. Piece of Cake:

Take Bronx River Parkway to the Bruckner to the Triboro Bridge to the BQE to Flatbush- during rush hour to make a 7:00pm game. There's never any traffic on that route, nor ever any construction. :rolleyes::D:eek:

Take the train. No one drives in NYC

[Masterofreality]

Take the train. No one drives in NYC

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

That's why every freaking road in NYC is gridlock. :p

[xavierj]

I've got ESPN on in my office, and they just showed a long quote by Geno Auriemma in which he BLASTS Notre Dame for causing the death of the Big East -- basically saying that they had the ability to keep the conference together but they don't care at all about the conference.

Fact is, he's right. But I don't think ND ever gave the impression otherwise. It seems to me that this is the typical situation of the guy saying he doesn't want anything serious, and the girl hoping that if she holds out long enough, he'll change his mind and settle down with her.

Well duh Geno. Notre Dame is a football school with elitist alums who think its the 1970's. They are NOTRE DAME. They play in your basketball conference out of a favor. To be honest Notre Dame could really care less about basketball. Notre Dame could probably drop basketball and make more money off football than any other Big East programs football and basketball team combined. Not then entire conference, but if you put Notre Dame football against Louisville basketball and football combined or programs like UCONN, UC, Syracuse or Pitt, I bet ND makes a bigger profit. Why would they give that up?

That would be like P&G sharing the wealth with Johnson & Johnson. Not gonna happen.

[bobbiemcgee]

Not to mention the BE accepted ND's proposal and both agreed to abide by it. Business deal. Stuff it Geno. None of yer biz.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Geno,

This has been covered. Thanks

[DC Muskie]

Not to mention the BE accepted ND's proposal and both agreed to abide by it. Business deal. Stuff it Geno. None of yer biz.

Completely agree. I thought his comments were hilarious. Like ND just walked into the BE offices and told them, "Mind if we dance with your dates?" And the BE had to do it. No, they didn't.

The BE is full of incredibly stupid people. Talented of course. But one of those talents is being really, really stupid.

[SM#24]

I've got ESPN on in my office, and they just showed a long quote by Geno Auriemma in which he BLASTS Notre Dame for causing the death of the Big East -- basically saying that they had the ability to keep the conference together but they don't care at all about the conference.

Fact is, he's right. But I don't think ND ever gave the impression otherwise. It seems to me that this is the typical situation of the guy saying he doesn't want anything serious, and the girl hoping that if she holds out long enough, he'll change his mind and settle down with her.

It's comments like these that clearly demonstrate when it comes to the business and administrative side of college athletics, the coaches should never have a voice.

[GoMuskies]

I've got ESPN on in my office

Sweet!

[xubrew]

It's comments like these that clearly demonstrate when it comes to the business and administrative side of college athletics, the coaches should never have a voice.

Sometimes I don't think they should let the administrators have an administrative voice either.

[bleedXblue]

Geno made some commnet yesterday basically saying that since ND is a catholic institution, they should so the right thing and help out their conference members.

I almost fell out of my chair.

WOW, the Big East is really getting desperate.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Today should be D-Day for the Missouri to the SEC news

[paulxu]

WOW, the Big East is really getting desperate.


Today should be D-Day for the Missouri to the SEC news

West Virginia rowing like crazy.

http://www.hossit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/History-Of-Titanic14.jpg

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

West Virginia rowing like crazy.

http://www.hossit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/History-Of-Titanic14.jpg

If you look closely, you can see Mick Cronin on the balcony of the Titanic

[xudash]

If you look closely, you can see Mick Cronin on the balcony of the Titanic

Knowing that he can't keep his head above water in a bathtub, going down in the Atlantic is not as big a deal.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Knowing that he can't keep his head above water in a bathtub, going down in the Atlantic is not as big a deal.

I've heard he's so short that his feet are visible in his driver's license

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/10/it-today-the-day-for-missouri-and-the-sec/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+mrseccom+%28MrSEC.com%29


1. MU’s board of curators literally slipped out a back exit after yesterday’s meetings in order to avoid the press. Also, in a telling sign, Mizzou athletic director Mike Alden was included in the board’s private talks.

2. Orangebloods.com — the Rivals site covering Texas — reports that “a couple officials at schools in the Big 12″ told the site that they expect Missouri to announce a withdrawal from that league today. The site’s sources have also reinforced the commonly held belief that it was MU’s board of curators — and not chancellor Brady Deaton — who steered things toward the SEC. (That story requires a subscription.)

3. Andy Katz of ESPN.com writes that “Multiple Big 12 sources said Mizzou is leaning toward a departure to the SEC, but there is still a chance that the Missouri board of curators could decide to stay in the Big 12 with the new revenue sharing and grant of rights for Tier I and Tier II television games.”

[xubrew]

I am thisclose to holding the view that X accept an invite to the BE almost no matter what, even if it swells to a seemingly unsustainable 24 teams. Why? I see only two real outcomes, both of which are better than the A-10:

1. The league somehow manages to stay together as a hyrbrid, with or without AQ status. If they maintain the AQ status I don't see how it could be a bad thing. But even if they lose it, which I believe is most likely, and even if this means UCONN, WV, L'Ville, etc all leave, we are still in a league with desirable BE basketball teams such as G'Town, Villanova, etc. And if it goes to 24 they aren't just going to invite X, they will invite other good basketball teams.

2. If the football teams do part, the sooner we get in the more shared revenue/units/etc. are ours to share. We are also on the inside, rather than the outside, of what would eventually become the best non-Big 6 basketball league in the country. How is that a bad thing? Sure, the departure of the football schools could, over time, result in a worsened basketball league, but I fail to see how it will become worse than the current A-10. Whatever causes the Georgetown's of the world to become worse programs in the new world of conference affiliation should similarly degrade the quality of the teams in the current A-10, etc. A degraded G'Town/Villanova/etc is better than a degraded Dayton/Richmond/etc.

So what's to lose by joining?

Obviously, when I make comments like that, they're tongue and cheek to a degree.

In all seriousness, my attitude this entire time (not just the last six months, but the last eight years) has been that it's not very likely that the Big East will open its doors to Xavier. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying that it is, to put it VERRRY conservatively, less than fifty percent likely. IF Xavier wants change, then sitting around waiting and hoping for something that is less than fifty percent likely to happen isn't the most assured way to create change.

I've always liked the idea of building a new boat and steering the ship ourselves. I'm not quite as far out as MHettel who has advocated going independent, but I'm far enough out there to where I would vote leaving (or dissolving) the Atlantic Ten and forming a new conference.

Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SLU, Temple, Creighton. That is a solid foundation. Three or four more and we're ready to go. One division, home and homes every season. We're charter members. We can set up our own bylaws in regards to facilities, revenue sharing, TV contracts, (even work to start our own network or production company), etc. Yes, you walk away from a stable situation that is the Atlantic Ten, and yes you give up past tournament revenue. However, you walk in to a healthy situation as well in which you're with like-minded institutions.

That is one of the reasons I get fed up about Big East speculation. Will they take us?? Maybe, but probably not. If we wanted to go out on our own, could we?? Yes. So, if X REALLY wants change, they can make it happen without the BE. We're not stuck in the Atlantic Ten unless we want to be, regardless of what the BE does. Personally, I find this more attractive than joining a 24 team monstrosity where we would have very little administrative power or pull, and that has demonstrated very little stability throughout its existance.

I'm fortunate enough to know some people who are associated with the Big East in various ways. I don't think Xavier has ever really been high on their list. I've gotten into some of the reasons why throughout the past few months, but the reality is when you have people who are affiliated telling you they don't appear to be overly interested, I tend to think that they're not overly interested. X is starting to get some mention now, but whether or not it will turn into actual traction remains to be seen. No one, not even the BE itself, really seems to know.

It's not impossible, but it is still far from a sure thing. Even if it were to happen, is that a better situation than a slimmed down and more competitive new league of like minded institutions?? I'd say not.

Having said that, I realize that's just me. I admit I am oftentimes opinionated, but I also don't think by any means that my opinion is law.

[danaandvictory]

I think Brew's on point here.

[xnatic03]

I think Brew's on point here.

as he normally is. Guy knows what he is talking about.

[bleedXblue]

I think what's gotten lost in all this discussion is that the A-10 has been a pretty good conference for X over the last 10 years. Is it what we want ? Can it be improved ? Will it ever be upgraded ? I seriously doubt it. X left the MCC for greener pastures. At the time, the A-10 was a GREAT fit and significant upgrade for X. UMASS was the flagship and Temple was nationally regarded. Fast forward 15 years and UMASS is a shawdow of itself and Temple is likely headed to the Big East. NO OTHER PROGRAMS have delivered to the A-10 what X has. St Joe's for 4-5 years maybe, but the conference is stuck in neutral and likely headed in reverse with the immenent departure of Temple. Stay or go ? Big East or have Bobinski go out a create a new league as Brew suggests ? Something tells me we'll have a much clearer idea by the end of this basketball season. Should we wait it out a bit ? Yes. Should we continue to play the game and explore options ? Yes. Should we jump at the first chance to join the Big East ? NO. I agree with Brew. A 24 team league ? Not interested until more clarity arrives for that despicable conference. I don't like the uncertainty more than anyone else. One thing is taking place without a doubt. Change is on the horizon and X must play it's hand well to postion itself for the next 10-15 years.

[MHettel]

In all seriousness, my attitude this entire time (not just the last six months, but the last eight years) has been that it's not very likely that the Big East will open its doors to Xavier. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying that it is, to put it VERRRY conservatively, less than fifty percent likely. IF Xavier wants change, then sitting around waiting and hoping for something that is less than fifty percent likely to happen isn't the most assured way to create change.

I've always liked the idea of building a new boat and steering the ship ourselves. I'm not quite as far out as MHettel who has advocated going independent, but I'm far enough out there to where I would vote leaving (or dissolving) the Atlantic Ten and forming a new conference.

Xavier, Dayton, Butler, SLU, Temple, Creighton. That is a solid foundation. Three or four more and we're ready to go. One division, home and homes every season. We're charter members. We can set up our own bylaws in regards to facilities, revenue sharing, TV contracts, (even work to start our own network or production company), etc.

I'm fortunate enough to know some people who are associated with the Big East in various ways. I don't think Xavier has ever really been high on their list. I've gotten into some of the reasons why throughout the past few months, but the reality is when you have people who are affiliated telling you they don't appear to be overly interested, I tend to think that they're not overly interested. X is starting to get some mention now, but whether or not it will turn into actual traction remains to be seen. No one, not even the BE itself, really seems to know.

It's not impossible, but it is still far from a sure thing. Even if it were to happen, is that a better situation than a slimmed down and more competitive new league of like minded institutions?? I'd say not.

You're way too rigid. You're basically saying that 8 years ago you doubted XU would get into the BE and since it didn't happen then, you are unable to adjust your views even though the landscape has totally shifted?

Step back and survey the battlefield. Look at what each stakeholder wants.

-4 of the Big 6 conferences are stable and dont HAVE to do anything.

-The Big 12 needs to do something, and are stuck waiting on Missouri.

-No Football team in the Big East wants to stay in the Big East as plan A, but be SURE that they all consider it plan B.

-Big East Basketball could easily jettison the football side, but they clearly see value in playing BBall with UConn, Louisville, UC etc.

So, what actions have been done?

-Big East Basketball tried to hedge their losses by trying to increase the departure fee. However, this fee only goes into effect if Navy and Air Force join, which wont happen unless the football side remains intact, in which case the increased fee wouldnt get triggered anyway. To me, this move has been neutered to the point where it wont matter. If uofL goes to the Big 12, then UConn will do anything to get out of the Big East and it's demise is inevitable. navy and Air Force arent joining under those circumstances.

- Big East Basketball has apparently been willing to add football only members as a way to keep the Football members around (and by "football members", I ONLY mean UConn UofL, WVU, and UC).

- The Big East has no chance of keeping their AQ BCS status. No Chance. Just look at the current lineup and all the potential lineups. Not one marquee team, and frankly not one team that would otherwise DESERVE to go. Dont think for a minute that the SEC or the Big 12 or the PAC 10 or the Big 10 would sit by and watch a BCS slot go to the Big East every year while a 9-2 team from one of these conferences gets an invite to the Alamo bowl. THE GOAL of the power conferences is to get their hands on the BCS bids. This is the treasure. They didnt reconfigure their conferences to stop short of the goal.

-In the end, there are still moves that must be made. Missouri doesnt have to do anything, but they do need to decide and declare their choice between B12 and the SEC. The BE simply connot function under it's current membership, and they are at the mercy of Missouri. If Missouri stays and the Big East stays in tact, then be SURE that they will all agree that staying relevant in basketball is their number one objective. THEY even know their BCS AQ status is gone. They will bolster the conference with the best basketball schools they can find.

- Under this scenario, the Big East will add some football only schools, some all sport schools, and some full members that dont have football. The goal is to strengthen football without weakening basketball, and also strengthen basketball. i expect memphis, Temple, XU and Butler at a minimum to be added. these are the best 4 available schools that are somewhat in the region (although if Boise State can join, could Gonzaga?).

- So this thing could be held together with a band aid for a bit longer. A few years probably. I think if the Big East goes MEGA size, they would re-write the bylaws to include some trigger for the football / basketball seperation to be amicable, meaning schools would get to take some NCAA units with them. But, BE basketball would ensure that if they do split down the line that they have the very best non-football teams in the country to stay relevant.

- My view is that this is the last round of musical chairs. If you get left out on this one, it's game over. The Power football schools are seperating themselves from the non-power football schools, creating almost a seperate division in the NCAA. From a basketball perspective, the BE is trying to get inclusion to this club by assembling the "best of the rest" conference.

GTown, UConn, WVU, Louisville, UC, St. Johns, XU, Temple, Nova, Memphis, Butler, ND, etc. Now that is the start of a relevant basketball conference.


By the way, in the lunacy of all of this, the idea that a conference with XU, Butler, Creighton, Dayton, SLU and Temple would be successful in starting their own network or production company might be the absolute dumbest idea of them all. No offense.

[waggy]

Just about anything reaching the cities in the east would be better for X than a conference with Creighton and bunch of mid-western schools.

[GoMuskies]

"Shocking" news that Mizzou has authorized its chancellor to get it the hell out of the Big XII.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7131557/missouri-tigers-give-chancellor-authority-strike-deal

[Founding Father]

I don't want XU to be in a conference with ECU, Air Force, Navy, UCF, South Florida, Houston or SMU.

I also don't want XU in a conference with Butler, Creighton and SLU. SLU cannot be avoided currently but if XU was to champion a new conference and get a buy in from others to join, I don't want them inviting SLU, Butler and Creighton.

I don't want XU to join the MVC.

UC, South Florida and Rutgers are going to be losers if Mizzou goes to the SEC. Why the bball only schools would allow those three to invite full members that play football to the BE is beyond me as their choices are not great bball additions.

The bball only schools should vote to allow football only members to join so that they can be removed easily down the road. My fear is that UC, South Florida and Rutgers basically have no where else to go and it will be really hard for them to leave the BE.

Hopefully the programs they target just say "no" to joining the sinking BE ship basically forcing those three to look at CUSA or the MAC for their sports teams.

[BBC 08]

Good to see someone else wants no part of Creighton in the new conference. #notoCreighton #waitthisisnttwitter

[GoMuskies]

I don't want XU to be in a conference with ECU, Air Force, Navy, UCF, South Florida, Houston or SMU.

Navy and Air Force wouldn't play basketball in the league. And what's wrong with being in a conference with ECU, UCF, USF, Houston and SMU if it also includes 'Nova, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, Notre Dame, St. John's and DePaul? ECU and the others are no worse than Duquesne, UMass, Charlotte, SLU, LaSalle, Fordham and St. Bonny.

[Founding Father]

Navy and Air Force wouldn't play basketball in the league. And what's wrong with being in a conference with ECU, UCF, USF, Houston and SMU if it also includes 'Nova, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, Notre Dame, St. John's and DePaul? ECU and the others are no worse than Duquesne, UMass, Charlotte, SLU, LaSalle, Fordham and St. Bonny.

It is too big for starters and as much as I want some of the A10 teams to leave the conference, XU has done quite well in the A10.

I'd love to be in a 9 or 10 team league with the bball only BE teams but the ECU's and such does nothing for me.

[GoMuskies]

I get that ECU does nothing for you. But ECU plus the current BE basketball onlies does a lot more for me than Fordham and LaSalle plus the rest of the current A-10 does.

[Founding Father]

I get that ECU does nothing for you. But ECU plus the current BE basketball onlies does a lot more for me than Fordham and LaSalle plus the rest of the current A-10 does.

I don't really want to be with DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence either but you can swallow them if you are in a league with the other 5 making a conference of 9-10 teams.

[GoMuskies]

I would welcome any of those three to the A-10. DePaul has clearly had some bad times, but you don't have to be that old to remember them as a powerhouse. Seton Hall and Providence would have been top half A-10 teams most years in the last 15.

[Founding Father]

I would welcome any of those three to the A-10. DePaul has clearly had some bad times, but you don't have to be that old to remember them as a powerhouse. Seton Hall and Providence would have been top half A-10 teams most years in the last 15.

They are nothing without their BE label next to them. If you took them out of the BE and put them in the A10 say replacing LaSalle, Fordham and SBU, they would probably finish in the bottom third each and every year in the A10.

[GoMuskies]

I disagree (especially with regards to DePaul who had their glory years back as an independent, in the Great Midwest and in C-USA), but we'll have to agree to disagree.

[xubrew]

You're way too rigid. You're basically saying that 8 years ago you doubted XU would get into the BE and since it didn't happen then, you are unable to adjust your views even though the landscape has totally shifted?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying I felt that way eight years ago, and I still feel that way today because...to put it bluntly...people I know who are affiliated with the Big East have not expressed interest in Xavier. That's it. That's all. That's my opinion and the reason I have that opinion.

Obviously you believe differently for, well, whatever reason. You explained it, but it seems a little out there to me.


-The Big 12 needs to do something, and are stuck waiting on Missouri

Chances are the Big Twelve will add one team if Missouri stays, and two if they leave. I seriously doubt BYU will be one of them. It will probably be Louisville, and then either UC or WVU.


The Big East has no chance of keeping their AQ BCS status. No Chance. Just look at the current lineup and all the potential lineups. Not one marquee team, and frankly not one team that would otherwise DESERVE to go. Dont think for a minute that the SEC or the Big 12 or the PAC 10 or the Big 10 would sit by and watch a BCS slot go to the Big East every year while a 9-2 team from one of these conferences gets an invite to the Alamo bowl. THE GOAL of the power conferences is to get their hands on the BCS bids. This is the treasure. They didnt reconfigure their conferences to stop short of the goal.

I've asked this question before. I'll ask it again. What is it in the entire history of the BCS, and the Bowl Coalition before that, and the Bowl Alliance before that that makes you think the Big East will lose its bid because they don't deserve to keep it?? Since when deserving something a criteria for obtaining it?? Since when is not deserving it a criteria for losing it?? I must have missed that.

The fact of the matter is that without the majority of FBS teams directly affiliated with the BCS, the BCS would not exist. The schools would vote to dissolve it. Right now, they need 61 schools to have a majority. They currently have 67 (including ND). If Louisville and another BE school leaves, and the BCS loses it's bid, they'd still have 64 (welcome TCU. That's still a majority, but it's hardly a SAFE majority considering the moritorium is over and schools can now move up. Jacksonville State, Texas Arlington, Texas State, Texas San Antonio and Appalachian State all plan to move up. That gets it to 125. I doubt it stops there.

Another thing is that later this month the new NCAA Presidential Working Group will meet. It is very possible that the power to overturn or dissolve will go from one-school, one vote to one CONFERENCE, one vote. If that's the case, then the Big East is almost assured to keep their AQ status no matter how bad the league is. The reason?? They need to make sure the Big East doesn't vote to dissolve the BCS, and the best way to do that is to keep them in it.

So, yes, if I had to make a guess, I'd guess that the Big East will keep its bid no matter how deserving or now mediocre their football lineup looks. As long as they have football and the BCS exists, they'll probably be a part of it.


Like I've said before, I'm not claiming to have anything other than my own opinion. However, I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass. My opinions are what they are for a reason. I don't think it's likely that Xavier will end up on the Big East. I also think it's very possible that the Big East WILL keep its BCS AQ status so long as it keeps football, even if it's crappy football.

[Founding Father]

I disagree (especially with regards to DePaul who had their glory years back as an independent, in the Great Midwest and in C-USA), but we'll have to agree to disagree.

Certainly will since we can never see how they'd do as A10 teams.

[xubrew]

I also don't want XU in a conference with Butler, Creighton and SLU. SLU cannot be avoided currently but if XU was to champion a new conference and get a buy in from others to join, I don't want them inviting SLU, Butler and Creighton.

Well, I want Xavier in a conference with schools whose local markets will carry all (or nearly all) the games. That isn't true for all the A10 team. If a team's own city isn't willing to carry the games, that kind of makes it rough to get a decent TV deal, especially if it's your own network or production.

Creighton, Butler and SLU would bring TV revenue. They're also have potential. I can't see how they'd be anything but an asset to a conference.

[Founding Father]

Well, I want Xavier in a conference with schools whose local markets will carry all (or nearly all) the games. That isn't true for all the A10 team. If a team's own city isn't willing to carry the games, that kind of makes it rough to get a decent TV deal, especially if it's your own network or production.

Creighton, Butler and SLU would bring TV revenue. They're also have potential. I can't see how they'd be anything but an asset to a conference.

Never said those three don't bring something to the table, I just prefer XU to be in an eastern focused conference.

I doubt Creighton would leave the MVC and I don't want XU to join the MVC

[Founding Father]

When the BCS was created why was CUSA left out?

[xubrew]

When the BCS was created why was CUSA left out?

From my perspective, the BCS was nothing new. It was just the latest modification to what was previously called the Bowl Coalition. The Rose, Sugar, Fiesta and Orange Bowls were already affiliated with the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Pac Ten, Big Twelve and SEC and saw no reason to include anyone else.

CUSA had only existed as a football conference for a couple of years anyway, and had no real storied football programs.