Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[xubrew]

Dash, I'm not trying to pick on you when I say this, but I think you're reading way too much into revenue generated by attendance. It's definitely worth noting, but it isn't a deal breaker, or even a deal swayer. When it comes to revenue sharing and overall revenue generated for the conference, ticket sales do not factor in. Ticket sales are kept by the school itself. In other words, Butler's attendance problems (if you even want to call it that) would be just that. Butler's problem. It wouldn't impact the rest of the league.

TV revenue is by far the biggest variable when it comes to revenue sharing. NCAA Tournament units are notable as well, but probably not as much as TV revenue, at least in this day in age. A lot of this could come down to how the basketball Big East schools (I'll give it the mythical acronym of BBE) negotiate their TV deal. They'll likely shoot for a deal that will enable all games that are not nationally televised to be carried live in BBE markets. The next question is how they will negotiate what determines a BBE market. If it's defined as a state that has a BBE school within it, THAT is what could potentially hurt Butler IF Notre Dame is still in the league. Indiana is a BBE market state with our without Butler. Ohio isn't. +1 for Xavier. Now, there is no guarantee that is how a BBE market will be defined. It could be defined as a team within the city or metropolitan area. If that's the case, then Xavier's advantage goes down tremendously. Essentially, they'll want all the games on as many screens as possible because it will produce more exposure and more money to the league.

Another thing is how will the league share OOC TV revenue, or will they share it at all?? If that's the case, Nielsen ratings suddenly become a huge deal, and it's my understanding that Butler's are pretty damn good. That's an advantage for them because if they're playing Duke and Stanford and Ohio State and some of the games that they've played in the past, those are games where the revenue can be shared throughout the league. They could also offer up appealing first tier games within the league that would be appealing to a national audience, and if they can sell those games to national TV, or have the first tier of their TV deal with a national provider, that will also generate more revenue.

Attendance is noteworthy, but it's a micro-viewpoint. If you look at things through a macro-lense, it's not nearly as consequential. Butler has pros and cons, but attendance isn't a big issue either way. I just think you're harping on something that isn't one of the bigger issues. Attendance is a small issue compared to the league's potential TV deal, which is a MAJOR issue.

[Coogles]

Attendance is noteworthy, but it's a micro-viewpoint. If you look at things through a macro-lense, it's not nearly as consequential. Butler has pros and cons, but attendance isn't a big issue either way. I just think you're harping on something that isn't one of the bigger issues. Attendance is a small issue compared to the league's potential TV deal, which is a MAJOR issue.

That's what I was getting at with the Duke comment. Some non-football Big East configuration would bring additional revenue to the athletic department, in large part facilitatig a move to such a conference.


I never noted that Butler couldn't support such a program or that Hinkle would hold it back, I was primarily comparing the revenue generating abilities of Xavier versus Butler with respect to their facilities, and otherwise noted that Butler will have a bigger adjustment to make in joining a league like the BE for all sports (ex-football).

There will definitely be an adjustment for all non-MBB sports in changing conferences, but it's not as if Butler's other sports are sorely lacking on all levels. The school has won two consecutive all-sports trophies in the Horizon League. Men's and women's soccer teams are nationally competitive as they are. M&W cross country are phenomenal. The biggest step up probably needs to take place in women's basketball. They've started competing at the top of the Horizon the last couple years, but they have yet to unseat the Green Bay women, who are ranked annually and made the Sweet 16 last year. Baseball is one sore spot on the men's side, but otherwise the entire athletic department is extremely competitive in the Horizon.

If ND sticks around for a non-footbal Big East, we can all forget about most olymic sports anyway. The absolutely dominate the Big East.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Radio host Greg Swaim is saying that Missouri will announce they are staying tomorrow and that the Big 12 will invite 3/4 of the following teams:

UL, UC, BYU, WVU.

He thinks TCU is staying in the Big East

http://twitter.com/#!/gswaim

EDIT: And literally 10 seconds after I make this post, he says he is not confident Missouri will stay. So he goes from 'Missouri will announce its staying Tuesday" to "I'm not confident Missouri will stay"

Kathy Griffin thinks these rumors are getting annoying now

[xubrew]

Radio host Greg Swaim is saying that Missouri will announce they are staying tomorrow and that the Big 12 will invite 3/4 of the following teams:

UL, UC, BYU, WVU.

He thinks TCU is staying in the Big East

http://twitter.com/#!/gswaim

EDIT: And literally 10 seconds after I make this post, he says he is not confident Missouri will stay. So he goes from 'Missouri will announce its staying Tuesday" to "I'm not confident Missouri will stay"

Kathy Griffin thinks these rumors are getting annoying now

Try and keep up here Jimmy. Geez.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Try and keep up here Jimmy. Geez.

He just switched again.


GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
I did just have a pretty good st. Louis source tell me he's sure #Mizzou staying in #Big12.


Couldn't imagine watching TV with the guy. He probably changes the channel 5 times for every Pitino affair time period

[GoMuskies]

It's clear to me that Mizzou is definitely staying in the Big XII unless they don't. Why are you guys having trouble understanding that?!?

[xubrew]

It's clear to me that Mizzou is definitely staying in the Big XII unless they don't. Why are you guys having trouble understanding that?!?

I think I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It's clear to me that Mizzou is definitely staying in the Big XII unless they don't. Why are you guys having trouble understanding that?!?


I think I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up.

GoMuskies is saying that something may or may not happen. I don't think that is the case.

[xu95]

If Mizzou stays in the Big 12 it is because the SEC will not be inviting them. They have their bags packed and are waiting by the door for their bus. If it never shows up they will say they didn't want to go anyhow.

xu95

[waggy]

If Mizzou stays in the Big 12 it is because the SEC will not be inviting them. They have their bags packed and are waiting by the door for their bus. If it never shows up they will say they didn't want to go anyhow.


No Board of Curators members responded to interview requests made by The Star on Tuesday. But three sources closely aligned with the board or the school told The Star that the curators’ prime concern is a Big 12 exit fee of up to $40 million.

“If it were just a matter of saying let’s go say goodbye Big 12 and join the SEC,” one source told The Star, “if there was no litigation or a few dollars involved, it would be an easy choice.

“If it comes down to we’ve got to come up with 40 million bucks, or whatever the number might be, that’s a different deal.”



http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/28/3172411/realignment-update-mu-curators.html

[HuskyMuskie]

Nobody knows nothing.

[GoMuskies]

GoMuskies is saying that something may or may not happen. I don't think that is the case.

Wrong. I am certain that you think it is the case that something may or may not happen depending on whether Mizzou certainly stays in the Big XII unless they leave in which case there is only one logical scenario unless another one develops. This has been covered.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wrong. I am certain that you think it is the case that something may or may not happen depending on whether Mizzou certainly stays in the Big XII unless they leave in which case there is only one logical scenario unless another one develops. This has been covered.

You are thinking only in terms of finality. Missouri may or may not leave the Big 12 for the SEC. In this scenario, the obvious answer is for them to simultaneously be in the Big 12 and join the SEC. This...has been covered

[Eastside_J]

Well, in SucKS case, that would be a banner that happened before Loyola Chicago won theirs.

And CCNY used to compete in big time college basketball too.

When the Borecats can actually sell out a second rate 30,000 stadium consistently and win something other than a second rate crap football league, maybe you could consider them high quality. Their touted BCS Bowl appearance was abjectly embarrassing and the coach who was the coach at that time and the AD who brought that coach in couldn't wait to leave.

Is that the best you can do?

Who isn't getting walloped by SEC teams in the big BCS bowl games? Heck OSU has pratically made it an annual tradition.

I am sorry but didn't I watch you guys get PASTED by UC AND Marquette in basketball last year? Are you really sure you want to point fingers about conferences and not being truly ready for prime time.

But my favorite part of your post is "coach who couldn't wait to leave". That is classic! Yes much like Pete, Thad, Skip and Sean?

Someone needs to put an ABP out on your faculties of reason, not to mention self awareness...

Anyway, if the Big East becomes the big catholic league, which I think is relatively likely, you will finally get the conference you wanted. Yes, the very top teams will have been removed but you will still be in a situation where, for the very first time, a handful of teams will be every bit as much (or more) than you care to handle.

All I have to say is - be careful what you wish for. :D

[GoMuskies]

Never heard that in '95 when Xavier joined the A-10. Wait.....actually I heard it from everyone. Especially UC fans.

[muskiefan82]

All I have to say is - be careful what you wish for. :D

He knows to be careful what you wish for MOR, from experience with his team.

[Founding Father]

Is that the best you can do?

Who isn't getting walloped by SEC teams in the big BCS bowl games? Heck OSU has pratically made it an annual tradition.

I am sorry but didn't I watch you guys get PASTED by UC AND Marquette in basketball last year? Are you really sure you want to point fingers about conferences and not being truly ready for prime time.

But my favorite part of your post is "coach who couldn't wait to leave". That is classic! Yes much like Pete, Thad, Skip and Sean?

Someone needs to put an ABP out on your faculties of reason, not to mention self awareness...

Anyway, if the Big East becomes the big catholic league, which I think is relatively likely, you will finally get the conference you wanted. Yes, the very top teams will have been removed but you will still be in a situation where, for the very first time, a handful of teams will be every bit as much (or more) than you care to handle.

All I have to say is - be careful what you wish for. :D

MOR doesn't need more as he was dead on correct in his post about UC and BE football.

BE football was "CUSA" even before losing two big name programs in Pitt and Syracuse.

UC is going to end up in either CUSA for all sports or some new league comprised mostly of CUSA cast offs and Temple.

Meanwhile, XU will be in a league with Villanova, Georgetown and possibley ND and the weak BE teams UC fans claim are so tough that they need to schedule Arkasas Pine Bluff in their non conference schedule and XU will do just fine. Check that ...better than fine.

[bleedXblue]

Is that the best you can do?

Who isn't getting walloped by SEC teams in the big BCS bowl games? Heck OSU has pratically made it an annual tradition.

I am sorry but didn't I watch you guys get PASTED by UC AND Marquette in basketball last year? Are you really sure you want to point fingers about conferences and not being truly ready for prime time.

But my favorite part of your post is "coach who couldn't wait to leave". That is classic! Yes much like Pete, Thad, Skip and Sean?

Someone needs to put an ABP out on your faculties of reason, not to mention self awareness...

Anyway, if the Big East becomes the big catholic league, which I think is relatively likely, you will finally get the conference you wanted. Yes, the very top teams will have been removed but you will still be in a situation where, for the very first time, a handful of teams will be every bit as much (or more) than you care to handle.

All I have to say is - be careful what you wish for. :D

Well said J. I can't believe it, but I agree with most of your points.

Xavier is ready if they get the call.

It will be an incredible opportunity if it happens.

[Eastside_J]

Never heard that in '95 when Xavier joined the A-10. Wait.....actually I heard it from everyone. Especially UC fans.

Touche my man. That is a true statement. I imagine I was among those voices.

UMASS was a formidable team in the 90's and really peaked in the Calipari years with Marcus Camby and their final four run. From a consistency standpoint Temple was even better. But obviously Calipari left in the first or second year you guys were in the conference. And Chaney got into a lot of nastiness and and went into a decline.

The best teams (from before your entrance) went south and the worst (with the brief exception of St. Joes) never improved.

[LA Muskie]

Well said J. I can't believe it, but I agree with most of your points.

Xavier is ready if they get the call.

It will be an incredible opportunity if it happens.
I have absolutely no doubt that we are ready if we get the call, but from a program perspective (basketball) and a broader university perspective. Indeed, the jump would mesh well with the university's strive to grow.

Now whether that opportunity comes to pass this year is another story. I think that's still very much up in the air. But I do believe we will be call #1 if a basketball-centric BE truly comes to be.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe, but Xavier won the league in its third year, and was a 7 seed in its second year. The league was still plenty good at that point. Xavier just adapted a helluva lot quicker than a lot of people expected. Do you really think 2011-12 Xavier would be overwhelmed in any way, shape or form by the 1995-96 A-10? They'd fight Temple to be the second best team in that league behind UMass.

[Eastside_J]

Well said J. I can't believe it, but I agree with most of your points.

Xavier is ready if they get the call.

It will be an incredible opportunity if it happens.

Don't get me wrong - I would (and did and do!) embrace it too.

You have to. And if it happens it will be a good thing. No you probably won't be able to reel of 30 wins anymore - but your schedule with be 10x as exciting. It will great and 100% worth it.

UC could (and I think will) end up in the B12, which I think would be a great fit and much more exciting for FB (although admittedly there will be head-kicked-in games, hopefully not forever) and much more SANE for basketball.

Or UC could end up without a chair when the music stops. Being without a strong AD is tough at these times. Being without ANY AD is like being the guy at the restaurant who forgot his wallet.

If this happens, the outcome will obviously be less than ideal. And yet I won't lose any sleep. Too much "life" to have to deal with in the last few years, I suppose. Perhaps the only silver lining to pain is gained perspective.

<Note: This does not mean I don't fully intend to sharpen my elbows, lay wood and hand out new orifices on here in a few odd months>

[Founding Father]

Don't get me wrong - I would (and did and do!) embrace it too.

You have to. And if it happens it will be a good thing. No you probably won't be able to reel of 30 wins anymore - but your schedule with be 10x as exciting. It will great and 100% worth it.

UC could (and I think will) end up in the B12, which I think would be a great fit and much more exciting for FB (although admittedly there will be head-kicked-in games, hopefully not forever) and much more SANE for basketball.

Or UC could end up without a chair when the music stops. Being without a strong AD is tough at these times. Being without ANY AD is like being the guy at the restaurant who forgot his wallet.

If this happens, the outcome will obviously be less than ideal. And yet I won't lose any sleep. Too much "life" to have to deal with in the last few years, I suppose. Perhaps the only silver lining to pain is gained perspective.

<Note: This does not mean I don't fully intend to sharpen my elbows, lay wood and hand out new orifices on here in a few odd months>

Do you really think UC ends up in the B12? Is it going to be 14 teams? Just my opinion but I see:

BYU
TCU
WVU
Louisville

all higher on the list than UC.

There are others that might be taken before UC as well like Air Force.

I don't think not having an AD or "strong" AD plays any part just like it played no part in UC getting in the BE the last time. UC football is simply not that attractive to any conference that does not NEED to add teams. No other conference drools over UC football or tries to poach them.

If UC gets in the B12 it will be out of the B12's pure need to add in more watered down programs in an attempt to survive just like the BE did when they invited UC.

[Eastside_J]

Do you really think UC ends up in the B12? Is it going to be 14 teams? Just my opinion but I see:

BYU
TCU
WVU
Louisville

all higher on the list than UC.

There are others that might be taken before UC as well like Air Force.

I don't think not having an AD or "strong" AD plays any part just like it played no part in UC getting in the BE the last time. UC football is simply not that attractive to any conference that does not NEED to add teams. No other conference drools over UC football or tries to poach them.

If UC gets in the B12 it will be out of the B12's pure need to add in more watered down programs in an attempt to survive just like the BE did when they invited UC.

Yeah, well, you are wrong.

[XU 87]

Yeah, well, you are wrong.

Speaking of being wrong, and for old times sake, could you take us down Memory Lane and tell us again how Drew Lavender was not a point guard but was really a two guard?

[GoMuskies]

Or how David West is soft?

[Founding Father]

Yeah, well, you are wrong.

How so?

[chico]

Yeah, well, you are wrong.

Wanna know when someone is clearly outgunned? When he starts quoting LH.

[XU 87]

Or how David West is soft?

To be fair, what Jay really claimed was that West was third in the country in rebounding "because he got a lot of easy rebounds due to his bad defense."

Jay, can you again take us down Memory Lane and explain that one?

[XU 87]

Wanna know when someone is clearly outgunned? When he starts quoting LH.

Ouch. That one really stings.

[bleedXblue]

I'm trying really hard to be impartial for UC's sake in all of this, but I keep coming back to their lack of facilities, fan base and general overall weak following/prominence in college football.

I personally see TCU, BYU, WVU and Louisville all more attractive than UC....from a football perspective. Is Texas going to want to play in Clifton in front of 30,000 ? I dont think so.

UC's basketball program keeps them at least in the running as it would add some quality to a league that could use it.......but so does WVU and UL.

If I had to bet my last dollar, I would say UC only gets a call if TCU or BYU says no. You know damn well UL and WVU are praying for a call from the SEC or B12.

[X-band '01]

UC is playing their 2 biggest conference foes at Paul Brown Stadium this year - Louisville and West Virginia. I don't think you have to worry about seeing UC playing teams like Texas and Oklahoma at Nippert Stadium anytime soon.

UC would bring the Ohio market to the Big IX, so it's not inconceivable that they would get an invite along with other teams like Louisville, BYU, West Virginia, etc.

[bearcat65]

I'm trying really hard to be impartial for UC's sake in all of this, but I keep coming back to their lack of facilities, fan base and general overall weak following/prominence in college football.

I personally see TCU, BYU, WVU and Louisville all more attractive than UC....from a football perspective. Is Texas going to want to play in Clifton in front of 30,000 ? I dont think so.

UC's basketball program keeps them at least in the running as it would add some quality to a league that could use it.......but so does WVU and UL.

If I had to bet my last dollar, I would say UC only gets a call if TCU or BYU says no. You know damn well UL and WVU are praying for a call from the SEC or B12.

In fairness UC played Oklahoma last year at PBS and drew 57,000. I would expect the same or better if Texas came to town.
There are so many contradicting rumors out there right now, it's anyone's guess how this all winds up.

[Eastside_J]

UC is playing their 2 biggest conference foes at Paul Brown Stadium this year - Louisville and West Virginia. I don't think you have to worry about seeing UC playing teams like Texas and Oklahoma at Nippert Stadium anytime soon.

UC would bring the Ohio market to the Big IX, so it's not inconceivable that they would get an invite along with other teams like Louisville, BYU, West Virginia, etc.

Yes more games would be at PBS to be sure.

WVU is a lower rated market, lower rated school academically and has a fan base that leaves A LOT to be desired. BYU fans are everywhere, imagine them going to a game in Morgantown. Trust me, not pretty.

TCU is a possiblity, if Texas decides they want them in. And I have no idea why they would. If texas says no, they are out, simple as that.

BYU has the most leverage, brings the most fans and has the least to gain.

[STL_XUfan]

If Mizzou stays in the Big 12 it is because the SEC will not be inviting them. They have their bags packed and are waiting by the door for their bus. If it never shows up they will say they didn't want to go anyhow.

xu95

A lot of this will come down to what the Mizzou Curators choose. It doesn't help that the Chairman of the board is from KC which stands to lose a lot if the Big Xii falls apart due to their presence as one of the major hubs of the conference.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/oct/02/conference-choice-puts-curators-on-the-spot/?tigerextra

[xubrew]

UC is playing their 2 biggest conference foes at Paul Brown Stadium this year - Louisville and West Virginia. I don't think you have to worry about seeing UC playing teams like Texas and Oklahoma at Nippert Stadium anytime soon.

UC would bring the Ohio market to the Big IX, so it's not inconceivable that they would get an invite along with other teams like Louisville, BYU, West Virginia, etc.

Exactly.

The Ohio market is the key. TCU's fanbase and facilities are comparable to UC's, and they're in Texas, so they don't bring a new market. TCU is by far the best program in terms of on-field success, but that isn't the most important factor.

I wouldn't be surprised if BYU turned it down. I don't believe they're within a thousand miles of the nearest Big Twelve school, and BYU marches to their own drum more than anyone else. I'm not predicting that BYU won't take it. It just wouldn't surprise me one bit if they didn't.

UC and Louisville are travel partners in two different states. That is huge when it comes to what is defined as a Big Twelve market, which is currently defined as a state that has a B12 team within it. That's what UC brings...the entire state of Ohio. When Iowa State plays Baylor in basketball, the state of Ohio will get the game. That's more TV sets, and more money.

UC also brings a rich recruiting footprint for both football and basketball. They also bring their past BCS ratings with them. It's two more top fifteen finishes that the Big Twelve can claim as their own.

I know people don't like UC, but there is no denying that they bring a ton to the table. Perhaps quality football isn't currently one of those things, but that's far less important than markets and past BCS ratings. Just look at Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC. Both are rather lousy in football, but are strong in markets and potential TV revenue.

[XU 87]

The Ohio market is the key.

When Iowa State plays Baylor in basketball, the state of Ohio will get the game. That's more TV sets, and more money.



But outside of Cincinnati, does anyone else in this state care about UC football (or basketball)? I don't see UC bringing the Ohio market. However, UC would bring the Cincinnati market, which may make UC attractive to another conference, particularly one that needs warm bodies in major media markets.

[xubrew]

But outside of Cincinnati, does anyone else in this state care about UC football (or basketball)? I don't see UC bringing the Ohio market. However, UC would bring the Cincinnati market, which may make UC attractive to another conference.

I'm sure most people throughout the state don't care about Iowa State, Baylor, Oklahoma State, or anyone else either. It would still make Ohio a Big Twelve market, though, which means the third tier games would be on all throughout the state. It's actually how many households have access to the games that determines the initial amount of money, even if they're not actually watching.

Very few people in New York City or Philadelphia will care about the Miami v Wake basketball game...but it will be on in those cities, and the ACC will get money for it.

[GoMuskies]

I don't believe they're within a thousand miles of the nearest Big Twelve school

Beautiful Lubbock, TX is only about 875 miles from Provo, UT.

[xudash]

brew, on the matter of facilities, TCU has a stadium that apparently is undergoing $165 million in renovations and seats 50K.

I get it if you are assuming UC has PB Stadium at its disposal, but TCU appears to have an edge in this area overall.

[XU 87]

I'm sure most people throughout the state don't care about Iowa State, Baylor, Oklahoma State, or anyone else either. It would still make Ohio a Big Twelve market, though, which means the third tier games would be on all throughout the state. It's actually how many households have access to the games that determines the initial amount of money, even if they're not actually watching.

Very few people in New York City or Philadelphia will care about the Miami v Wake basketball game...but it will be on in those cities, and the ACC will get money for it.

I won't pretend to understand how these deals are worked or decided upon. But Fox Sports already has the Big 12 game of the week on every week. So they don't need UC to access the Ohio market. But they would need UC to gain some ratings in the Cincy area, and therefore more tv revenue.

I always thought the objective was to find schools in large media markets who also have fan interest in that media market. Fan interest means better potential ratings. That's why St. John's, rather than Fordham, is in the Big East. The BE and the A-10 are in many of the same markets. But the BE tv deal is way better than the A-10 deal because there is more interest in the BE than the A-10 and hence better ratings.

[xubrew]

I won't pretend to understand how these deals are worked or decided upon. But Fox Sports already has the Big 12 game of the week on every week. So they don't need UC to access the Ohio market. But they would need UC to gain some ratings in the Cincy area, and therefore more tv revenue.

I always thought the objective was to find schools in large media markets who also have fan interest in that media market. Fan interest means better potential ratings. That's why St. John's, rather than Fordham, is in the Big East. The BE and the A-10 are in many of the same markets. But the BE tv deal is way better than the A-10 deal because there is more interest in the BE than the A-10 and hence better ratings.

It depends on what kind of TV deal a conference has. In the case of Fox, they're making the games available to whomever they choose to make it available to, and paying the conference for the providers that are in what is considered the Big Twelve market. Since Ohio currently isn't a Big Twelve market, the conference isn't getting any cash for the number of households that can access the game even though the game is usually on. If Cincinnati were in the league, that would not be the case.

Honestly, I think these bloated TV deals are sewing the seeds for the next big shift in college athletics. Conferences are covering as much geography as they can, and working out TV deals that pay them for the number of households even if no one is watching. People in Nebraska probably don't care about Penn State vs Minnesota basketball, yet Nebraska cable providers are paying (albiet indirectly) for that game. Eventually, the ratings will drop, and when the ratings drop the networks won't be willing to sign these kinds of deals anymore, and when they don't sign these kinds of deals anymore there is no reason to spread your conference out over half the continent. That could lead to the next phase of realignment ten years or so down the road.

[XU 87]

Since Ohio currently isn't a Big Twelve market, the conference isn't getting any cash for the number of households that can access the game even though the game is usually on. If Cincinnati were in the league, that would not be the case.



I have a hard time believing that a sophisticated tv executive will pay more money to a conference thinking that more people in Toledo or Cleveland will watch Big 12 games because UC is in the conference.

If all you need is an Ohio team to get the Ohio market, then just ask Toledo or Akron to join the conference. St. Bonaventure is in New York state. Can anyone credibley argue that St. B helps the A-10 gain access to the New York state tv market?

[XU 87]

People in Nebraska probably don't care about Penn State vs Minnesota basketball, yet Nebraska cable providers are paying (albiet indirectly) for that game.

Nebraska was brought in for football. In any event, Nebraska does have statewide interest, unlike UC. And just like I will watch some game between two A-10 teams, since I'm familiar with those teams, I suspect some Big Ten basketball game will in fact get better ratings in Nebraksa now that they're in the Big Ten.

But the same can't be said about UC, since they don't have statewide interest.

[xubrew]

I have a hard time believing that a sophisticated tv executive will pay more money to a conference thinking that more people in Toledo or Cleveland will watch Big 12 games because UC is in the conference.

If all you need is an Ohio team to get the Ohio market, then just ask Toledo or Akron to join the conference. St. Bonaventure is in New York state. Can anyone credibley argue that St. B helps the A-10 gain access to the New York state tv market?

They will if they want the rights to the conference.

Once again, it's the number of households within "the market" (however that is defined). It's not necessarily the number of people watching. It's just the number of people that can.

The Atlantic Ten does not and cannot define "the market" in their TV deal the same way the Big Twelve is able to define theirs. If the A10 tried to negotiate a deal where an entire state was considered part of the market, the TV execs would laugh. That's not the case with a league like the Big Twelve, though, who brings basketball AND football to the table.

I can almost guarantee that the Big Twelve will negotiate their deal in such a way that their market is defined as any state (the ENTIRE state) that has a member of the conference within it, and that the network must make the conference games available throughout the entire market, and that they are paid X amount of dollars for every household within that market that can access the games.

Nebraska has statewide interest in Nebraska. No one in Nebraska gives a damn about Penn State basketball, yet Penn State basketball is available all throughout Nebraska, and the Big Ten gets money for it. It's the same for the Big Twelve if they add a team from Ohio and work out a similiar deal...which they will.

Ask yourself why the Pac Ten wanted Colorado. Their arena and stadium are usually half empty. They wanted the state and the households within the state.

Syracuse and Pitt are subpar football teams, but they're in the states of Pennsylvania and New York. That's what the big appeal was.

The Big Twelve works a similiar deal. It's not so much that UC is an attractive program (although they really aren't that bad). It's that Ohio is an attractive state, and UC makes more sense than anyone else.

[LA Muskie]

They will if they want the rights to the conference.

Once again, it's the number of households within "the market" (however that is defined). It's not necessarily the number of people watching. It's just the number of people that can.

The Atlantic Ten does not and cannot define "the market" in their TV deal the same way the Big Twelve is able to define theirs. If the A10 tried to negotiate a deal where an entire state was considered part of the market, the TV execs would laugh. That's not the case with a league like the Big Twelve, though, who brings basketball AND football to the table.

I can almost guarantee that the Big Twelve will negotiate their deal in such a way that their market is defined as any state (the ENTIRE state) that has a member of the conference within it, and that the network must make the conference games available throughout the entire market, and that they are paid X amount of dollars for every household within that market that can access the games.

Nebraska has statewide interest in Nebraska. No one in Nebraska gives a damn about Penn State basketball, yet Penn State basketball is available all throughout Nebraska, and the Big Ten gets money for it. It's the same for the Big Twelve if they add a team from Ohio and work out a similiar deal...which they will.

Ask yourself why the Pac Ten wanted Colorado. Their arena and stadium are usually half empty. They wanted the state and the households within the state.

Syracuse and Pitt are subpar football teams, but they're in the states of Pennsylvania and New York. That's what the big appeal was.

The Big Twelve works a similiar deal. It's not so much that UC is an attractive program (although they really aren't that bad). It's that Ohio is an attractive state, and UC makes more sense than anyone else.
I have not seen any of the conference deals, but in TV distribution agreements the "markets" are typically defined by Nielsen's Designated Market Area ("DMA") defintion. Here (http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2009-2010-dma-ranks.pdf) is a list.

[xu95]

A lot of this will come down to what the Mizzou Curators choose. It doesn't help that the Chairman of the board is from KC which stands to lose a lot if the Big Xii falls apart due to their presence as one of the major hubs of the conference.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/oct/02/conference-choice-puts-curators-on-the-spot/?tigerextra

It will all come down to money. 17 million reasons per year to be exact.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://collegesportsinfo.com/2011/10/04/all-eyes-on-missouri-today/

The future of the Big 12 and perhaps the SEC and Big East will be known at 12:00CT today, when Missouri will hold it’s curators meeting to discuss their future conference situation. On the table are the same two options we’ve heard for the past few weeks: remain in the Big 12 or make a push for the SEC as the #14 school.

On paper, it would seem like an easy decision. The SEC IS college football, the best in the nation. The conference is stable with large per-school revenue payouts. For the SEC, Missouri offers even more penetration into Big 12 country (in addition to Texas A&M) and into Kansas City and helps the SEC make it’s way into Big Ten territory via the statewide appeal of the program and into St. Louis. These markets would help the overall viewership of the SEC and be a huge boost to a potential SEC Network.

For Missouri in the Big 12, the benefits are less tangible. It would be less money. It would mean remaining in a conference that two years in a row has nearly fallen apart. And if the Big 12 fell apart and Missouri passed on the SEC, it is doubtful that opportunity would present itself again, nor a coveted Big Ten invitation. What Missouri would get would be to maintain rivalries with nearby Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., and the connection to Oklahoma and Texas.

Yet, based on comments this weekend, it appears Missouri is leaning towards remaining in the Big 12.

So within a few hours, we should know the fate of a number of conferences.

Various reports claim that if Missouri remains in the Big 12, that the Big 12 might be adding BYU, TCU and Louisville.

The result would be the Big East down to 5 members: WVU, Uconn, Rutgers, Cincinnati and USF. So even as the Big East has lined up talks with UCF, SMU, Air Force for all-sports, Temple for either football-only or all-sports, and Navy for football-only, the Big East would need to look at adding all of these schools or others currently not on the list (such as ECU, Memphis, Houston).

If spurned by Missouri, the SEC might then very likely invite WVU to be the #14 school, another blow to the Big East.

And if Missouri were to leave the Big 12 for the SEC, there remains a strong chance that the Big 12 could invite BYU, TCU, Louisville and WVU. This would result in the Big East being down to Uconn, Rutgers, Cincinnati and USF. And at this point, one has to wonder if the Big East would even both with expansion since it would require the conference to invite 5-6 schools to get back to 9 or reach the number 10 they had set out for late in 2010.

If you’re the Big East basketball schools, how thrilled would you be having to add SMU, Houston, UCF, Temple, Air Force for all-sports and Navy or ECU for football-only? It would seem that if the Big East were down to 4 members, you’ll start hearing talks of UCF and perhaps even Cincinnati joining CUSA for all-sports and Uconn and Rutgers for football-only. Or course at this point, CUSA might have more cache than the Big East and require all-sports membership. Uconn and Rutgers would then be forced with the choice: join CUSA for all-sports or approach the MAC or Sunbelt for football-only…or participate as independents.

Which brings us to Notre Dame.

Notre Dame has passed on full membership as the Big East has served their needs for non-football sports while allowing them to preserve independence in football.

But if the Big East falls apart, all the large football schools, is Notre Dame going to remain with the 7 small private/catholic schools? Likely not.

So if the Big 12 opts to take 3 Big East schools, Notre Dame might be forced to make the all-sports move to the ACC…and option they would likely prefer over the Big Ten due to northeast market exposure (Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh) as well as southern recruiting benefits of ACC membership.

And it is believed that once the ACC has a final decision from Notre Dame, that Uconn would be in the mix. So if Notre Dame joins for #15, Uconn would be brought in for #16. And if Notre Dame officially passes on the ACC, the Uconn and Rutgers would likely be brought in for the 15 and 16 spots.

The result again: Big East destruction.

In the perfect world, Missouri will announce they are remaining in the Big 12 and that the Big 12 opts to remain at 9. And if they were to expand, adding now independent BYU for #10 would keep the conference shifts minimal. But even this would require the SEC to pass on a #14 school and for the Big East current 7 football schools to remain together.

[LA Muskie]

Jimmy,

Missouri's decision today may hasten things, but I really don't think the "future will be known" for any of the conferences you mention based only on today's decision. If the last month has taught us anything, it's that nobody knows nothin'.

As for Notre Dame, the ACC can hold out hope all it wants (as the B1G has done for years). They are not giving up their football independence. It just ain't gonna happen. No how, no way.

[GoMuskies]

Notre Dame in the ACC makes about as much sense as Air Force in the Big East.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
PowerMizzou's @GabeDeArmond tells @3hl1045 he expects Missouri board to give authority to Pres. to explore conference affiliation today.

[GoMuskies]

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
PowerMizzou's @GabeDeArmond tells @3hl1045 he expects Missouri board to give authority to Pres. to explore conference affiliation today.

So they're now definitely staying pending the outcome of the President's exploration, at which point they'll either definitely stay or definitely leave. #GregSwaim

[SM#24]

Notre Dame in the ACC makes about as much sense as Air Force in the Big East.

Or St. Louis in the A10.

If I'm ND, the ACC is my first choice.

[GoMuskies]

ND's only choice is no conference. They might be happy to take the ACC up on a non-football membership if the Big East collapses.

[bobbiemcgee]

TV cash will, of course, rule all these decisions . College Presidents/Boards are greedy. They will squeeze the last buck out of these deals.

[SM#24]

If the BE football side collapses, ND's decision will be interesting. I think ND would love to be in the ACC for non-football, but I don't think the ACC will take them unless they bring football, they don't need to.

The BE is great for ND as it gives their basketball teams a great conference. But other than men's and women's basketball, the Big East is not a very good conference for any other sports (certainly no where near the ACC).

I continue to read that ND will not align with Gtown, Marq, Nova, etc. but if they're all that's left in the BE, I'm not sure what their options are if they continue to remain indy in football.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Decision and press conference expected any minute now from Missouri

[danaandvictory]

Decision and press conference expected any minute now from Missouri

Missouri bigwigs give permission to explore conference affiliation options and the Mizzou chancellor has stepped down from position with Big 12. Sounds like they are gone.

[SixFig]

Missouri bigwigs give permission to explore conference affiliation options and the Mizzou chancellor has stepped down from position with Big 12. Sounds like they are gone.

I say things are about to go off the charts on the Nicolas Cage Crazy Meter

[danaandvictory]

I say things are about to go off the charts on the Nicolas Cage Crazy Meter

I think you're right. We might be in Drive Angry territory.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I say things are about to go off the charts on the Nicolas Cage Crazy Meter


I think you're right. We might be in Drive Angry territory.

Speaking of Nic Cage, may I present to you guys a stunning performance in the short lived horribly reviewed movie "Wicker Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QqgIzlmdBc

[waggy]

I think the B10 would be very stupid to let Missouri get away to the SEC. If they go to the SEC, it would be cost prohibitive to get them out later.

[Founding Father]

I get the feeling that if the B10 was offering membership, Missouri would have left weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised if Missouri ends up staying in the B12 after they explore their "options" and we will soon find out.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
Column: Missouri fans triumph in SEC quest. Six things you need to know from here:
http://outkickthecoverage.com/missouri-fans-triumph-in-sec-campaign.php

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
What an amazing coincidence that the SEC athletic directors meet tomorrow.

ClayTravisBGID Clay Travis
Putting Missouri in the SEC East makes lots of sense and preserves rivalries
http://outkickthecoverage.com/missouri-fans-triumph-in-sec-campaign.php

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Mizzou concludes its press briefing and not one bit of the news pointed to the Tigers staying in the Big 12.

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Brady Deaton has resigned his position of chair of the Big 12 Board of Directors.


By the way Founding Father, did you know there's another FoundingFather online right now?

[SM#24]

I wouldn't be surprised if Missouri ends up staying in the B12 after they explore their "options" and we will soon find out.

I don't think they waited until this meeting to explore their options. I think they have already done their homework. If they're staying in the B12, why even have yesterday's meeting ?
They don't need permission to do nothing.

[SixFig]

I don't think they waited until this meeting to explore their options. I think they have already done their homework. If they're staying in the B12, why even have yesterday's meeting ?
They don't need permission to do nothing.

Thats right.

If you say you want to "see other people"...you broke up.

Let's see who the Big 12's "rebound girl(s)" will be

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Andy Katz said he received a text from a Big East Coach that said

"The Big East is finished"

[xu95]

Andy Katz said he received a text from a Big East Coach that said

"The Big East is finished"

Too bad so sad.

xu95

[xudash]

Andy Katz said he received a text from a Big East Coach that said

"The Big East is finished"

If that came from a hoops coach it would be truly unfortunate.

I believe it's pretty clear that I am totally for Xavier transitioning to a BE hoops-centric conference. Assuming the core hoops group remains together, with or without ND's involvement, it's a strong enough group, with a strong brand, and with a relationship with ESPN (that at least beats the A10's relationship with ESPN) that makes it worth joining.

The only concern I have about it has to do with the mental fortitude of the leaders at those hoops schools:


Will the glass be half-full - not what we had in the hybrid days, but a BE back to its hoops roots with a solid, committed cast of schools, making it the premier basketball conference in America; or
Will the glass be half-empty - we're doomed and we need to cancel our NBA arena lease right now, etc.


They only need to take about 15 minutes to contemplate what Xavier has achieved as a member of the A10 to visualize a more-than-half-full outcome.

[waggy]

The only concern I have about it has to do with the mental fortitude of the leaders at those hoops schools:


Will the glass be half-full - not what we had in the hybrid days, but a BE back to its hoops roots with a solid, committed cast of schools, making it the premier basketball conference in America; or
Will the glass be half-empty - we're doomed and we need to cancel our NBA arena lease right now, etc.

They only need to take about 15 minutes to contemplate what Xavier has achieved as a member of the A10 to visualize a more-than-half-full outcome.

Agree. What's that quote from Mack?... Don't let others define your expectations?

[XULucho27]

Relevant to the topic, NCAA President Mark Emmert held a brief Q&A this weekend. When asked about conference realignment he gave the following answer.


Q: What are your thoughts on conference realignment?

A: "I think some of it is probably inevitable. Some of it has always occurred. It hasn't occurred as rapidly as what we are seeing right now. The thing that bothers me isn't the realignment. It's the way we are going about it. We need to make sure that universities and conferences are keeping their eye on the ball and I don't mean the football, I mean the eye on what our purpose is. This is about supporting student-athletes, it's about supporting athletic programs. It's about programs that are consistent with the schools that sponsor them. It's not just about making a deal. It's not just about the biggest and best media contract. Do we want to have resources to support all our programs? Of course. Money matters. Money always has mattered and it always will matter. But that's not the end in of itself. I've been misquoted as describing it as not a business. Well, we're not a business, we are not a for-profit business. We generate a lot of revenue to support all of these programs. Most of the programs still run in the red. There's an illusion out there that even a place Montana State is raking in tons of money in sports when in fact they have to subsidize sports to make them successful. So if you are sitting here in Bozeman, Montana, you think there's not enough money in athletics, not too much. It all depends upon your perspective. I want the conferences and the presidents to slow down a little bit, think about the long-term future of their institutions and intercollegiate athletics and make good choices.

I mean is it really not about money? Is the purpose of having four mega-conferences really about supporting student-athletes? Isn't a lot of realignment being held back by media contracts (Long Horn Network, ND and NBC, Big Ten Network, ESPN, what have you)?

I know he just can't come out and say it but it just seems very disingenuous to state that this whole thing isn't about money. I don't know. I leave it up for discussion for all of you who are immersed and better versed in the subject than myself.

Q&A with NCAA President Mark Emmert (http://m.bozemandailychronicle.com/mobile/sports/article_ddfc83d2-eefd-11e0-95fe-001cc4c03286.html)

[LA Muskie]

I know he just can't come out and say it but it just seems very disingenuous to state that this whole thing isn't about money. I don't know. I leave it up for discussion for all of you who are immersed and better versed in the subject than myself.

He's not saying it's not about money. He's saying it shouldn't just be about money. He is criticizing the process, not agreeing with it. Problem is that he has zero, zilch, nada power to control it.

[Muskied]

Well it's about the money, but more importantly, it's about non-athletic money, and I think that's what he's trying to say. All universities only make so much revenue on athletics...even Ohio State, compared to non athletic revenue (I think OSU is less than 10%). He's saying that they need to consider the total impact of conference realignment. Does a school really just want to compete athletically, or even just in football, in the ACC? Or are they targeting that geography for student recruiting, research, and all college programs? It's actually a subject worth considering. Maybe I'm wrong....................

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I don't feel like copying and pasting my response in 3 identical threads so here it goes:

"Temple tells Big East they want in"

http://www.wlwt.com/sports/29399408/detail.html

[X-band '01]

Football-only? Yeah, right. I can see them getting in for all sports if they get a commitment from other Big East schools to keep the conference together.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Football-only? Yeah, right. I can see them getting in for all sports if they get a commitment from other Big East schools to keep the conference together.

Either way, I think its a pretty safe assumption now that Temple is on their way out of the A10

[principal]

Nothing we didn't already know, but its official, MO wants an invite to the SEC:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7063633/missouri-tigers-hope-join-sec-had-wanted-big-ten-invite-most

Some interesting quotes...

Regarding those teams most desirable for addition to the Big 12 (a source with knowledge of the situation via Andy Katz):

"The source said that the top choices remain BYU, Louisville, West Virginia and TCU, but a new school was discussed recently that hasn't been mentioned publicly: Tulane out of Conference USA. The source said the Big 12 has been contacted by a number of other schools about possible inclusion, as well."

And a timeframe:

"Asked about a timetable for adding new members to the Big 12, Boren said it could happen in a "week to 10 days.""

So, no UC and a 10 day timetable. I don't doubt UC is one of "a number of other schools" but it doesn't sound like the interest is mutual, at least not if the first five options pan out.

Wow, so much for realignment dying down.

principal

[bobbiemcgee]

UC picked a great time to have no AD. Ridiculous.

[xudash]

If the BE loses one more school and that school comes from WVU (remaining flagship in some regards) or UL (get another Petrino on board and UL will have the capacity to fill a larger stadium, etc.) is it time for the BE to call it a day?

Wouldn't it have to be time for the BE to call it a day (for football by the way) if it loses both schools to the Big XII?

At the very least, think about the BE's negotiating position right now. It has key institutions that want out for football reasons. It is highly likely that it will lose one from here. It almost is as highly likely that two will go once Mizzou makes its move to the SEC official. They aren't going to get a loyalty pledge that includes a $20mm exit fee. In fact, all they have at present is a bunch of posturing.

There is virtually no way to maintain the BE as an AQ conference. So is an interim step to 4x16 a world where 5 BCS conferences exist and the MWC and a revamped C-USA (UC and USF) go after the BCS bowl slots? Of course, that assumes Slive doesn't go after 2 auto slots for the SEC, etc.

What a mess.

What a remarkable spectacle.

Just let Xavier be aligned with Georgetown, et al and all will be well. The idea of that has merit in its own right, but it really becomes obvious knowing that Temple and Charlotte and even UMass won't be around in the A10 forever.

[X-band '01]

As usual, the Big East was so mad at the ACC that it will eventually promote Temple to full membership. Even with a football implosion imminent for that league, I can't imagine Temple playing their other sports in the MAC or C-USA over the Big East.

[principal]

As usual, the Big East was so mad at the ACC that it will eventually promote Temple to full membership. Even with a football implosion imminent for that league, I can't imagine Temple playing their other sports in the MAC or C-USA over the Big East.

Given the most recent news it doesn't look like much football will be played in the Big East in the near future. Anything can happen, but if you are in the Big East and plan to play football, you better be making Plan B your new Plan A.

[waggy]

Temple saying they are willing to join for football only, makes me think the remnants will try to slug along as a glorified cusa or mwc. No AQ bid, but they would have a football home with a name and a given team would have to earn a BCS bid the same way these other two conferences do, which is a high BCS ranking. Most or all of these additions would be football only. So it would be an even more convoluted/bastardized hybrid than now. Call it the Big Zombie.

[Masterofreality]

Regarding those teams most desirable for addition to the Big 12 (a source with knowledge of the situation via Andy Katz):

"The source said that the top choices remain BYU, Louisville, West Virginia and TCU, but a new school was discussed recently that hasn't been mentioned publicly: Tulane out of Conference USA. The source said the Big 12 has been contacted by a number of other schools about possible inclusion, as well."

principal

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!


Freaking Tulane is more desireable than SucKS.

Hey Borecats.....nobody wants you. Have a great time playing with Central Florida, East Carolina and Florida International in front of 27,000 empty seats at Nippert.

[bleedXblue]

What is Temple doing ?

I said it last week.

WAIT to see what happens with the other conference realignments before committing yourelf to a conference thats going to implode !!!!!

Unbelieveable.

[paulxu]

For the BE to actively be seeking members to replace departing schools, doesn't that mean the "catholic" basketball schools are NOT seeking to for bball league, as their votes would be necessary for the football school searching?

Maybe both things happen at once. This is all a little confusing.

[bleedXblue]

For the BE to actively be seeking members to replace departing schools, doesn't that mean the "catholic" basketball schools are NOT seeking to for bball league, as their votes would be necessary for the football school searching?

Maybe both things happen at once. This is all a little confusing.

You can say that again.

I think if one more Big East 'football" school departs (UL or WVU), then the basketball only schools better be ready to take some action.

[XUFan09]

You can say that again.

I think if one more Big East 'football" school departs (UL or WVU), then the basketball only schools better be ready to take some action.

The thing is the basketball-only schools might rather have the addition of some weaker opponents while keeping UConn, Louisville, and WVU than lose those teams and add Xavier, Butler, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the former leads to a better basketball contract and thus better individual revenue.

[xavierj]

The thing is the basketball-only schools might rather have the addition of some weaker opponents while keeping UConn, Louisville, and WVU than lose those teams and add Xavier, Butler, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the former leads to a better basketball contract and thus better individual revenue.

WVU, Louisville and UCONN likely will not be playing with the basketball only schools in a couple of years. I think Louisville and WVU are Big 12 bound in the next week and then UCONN ends up in the ACC. The Basketball only schools know this and they will move at the appropriate time and I would bet they are alreay in discussions behind the scenes. This is about football. Louisville, UCONN and WVU understand that staying behind for basketball reasons would leave a ton of money on the table. They are as good as gone.

[American X]

Tulane out of Conference USA.


Freaking New Orleans is way more desirable than Cincinnati

Fixed your post.

First thing I would do is add the school in New Orleans to the schedule.

[outsideobserver11]

If there is one thing I have learned through all of this, its that anything Katz says should be taken with a grain of salt on this whole realignment talk because while he may know more than us average people, at the end of the day this is about football and he is not a football guy. Just about everything I have read the past week or so has mentioned UC and the big 12, the only person that won't mention UC for some reason is Katz. Like it or not, UC is in contention for the big 12 and probably have a good shot if/when Missouri leaves just because of Louisville.

Personally, I hope that UC does go to the big 12 because the more football schools that leave the Big East the better chances for us getting invited into a conference with the Big East basketball schools. If only one of the schools leaves for some reason, there is a chance that they could invite new members and keep the existing conference. But if 3 more go after the 2 that have already left, then there is virtually no chance of the Big East existing as a football conference.

[Founding Father]

If there is one thing I have learned through all of this, its that anything Katz says should be taken with a grain of salt on this whole realignment talk because while he may know more than us average people, at the end of the day this is about football and he is not a football guy. Just about everything I have read the past week or so has mentioned UC and the big 12, the only person that won't mention UC for some reason is Katz. Like it or not, UC is in contention for the big 12 and probably have a good shot if/when Missouri leaves just because of Louisville.

Personally, I hope that UC does go to the big 12 because the more football schools that leave the Big East the better chances for us getting invited into a conference with the Big East basketball schools. If only one of the schools leaves for some reason, there is a chance that they could invite new members and keep the existing conference. But if 3 more go after the 2 that have already left, then there is virtually no chance of the Big East existing as a football conference.

Please. One site (a UC insider site) has listed UC above the more realistic choices to join. Many, many more sites, not just Katz have UC as the 5th to 7th team on the list and they at most will need 4.

[xudash]

If there is one thing I have learned through all of this, its that anything Katz says should be taken with a grain of salt on this whole realignment talk because while he may know more than us average people, at the end of the day this is about football and he is not a football guy. Just about everything I have read the past week or so has mentioned UC and the big 12, the only person that won't mention UC for some reason is Katz. Like it or not, UC is in contention for the big 12 and probably have a good shot if/when Missouri leaves just because of Louisville.

Personally, I hope that UC does go to the big 12 because the more football schools that leave the Big East the better chances for us getting invited into a conference with the Big East basketball schools. If only one of the schools leaves for some reason, there is a chance that they could invite new members and keep the existing conference. But if 3 more go after the 2 that have already left, then there is virtually no chance of the Big East existing as a football conference.

I agree. Job One is to have all this break in a fashion that leads to an invitation for Xavier to join the BE hoops schools.

Besides, consider that the Big XII may still end up as the weakest link in the 5 link BCS chain, especially if Texas continues to dominate it financially. The key thing that would change that would be if the programs in the league signed up for a prohibitive exit fee. I don't believe the Big XII has settled that issue yet.

Either way, UC isn't very well positioned in all this due to its lack of tradition, identity, and small stadium. I discount UC's ability to be viable by using PB Stadium as a venue for its larger games - Oklahoma, TT. I can't imagine 50k in the stands for Iowa State, etc., so you would have to think that they'll pull a facilities "hybrid" by going back and forth between Nippert and downtown. This is the kind of stuff that makes UC less attractive to the ADs of the power schools.

Nonetheless, if UC going to the BXII opens the door for X to go east, may UC enjoy all its future hayrides.

[XUmeat]

TCU to Big 12...

TCU has been invited to join the Big 12 Conference and is expected to accept the offer for the 2012-13 school year, college football industry sources told CBSSports.com.



TCU was scheduled to join the Big East on July 1, 2012, but instead will join the Big 12. By leaving the Big East before it officially became a member, the Horned Frogs will have to pay a $5 million exit fee but is not bound by the Big East’s 27 month requirement for notification.



Big East is in big, big trouble...

[GoMuskies]

Rick Pitino enjoyed TCU's 15 seconds in the Big East.

[muskiefan82]

Rick Pitino enjoyed TCU's 15 seconds in the Big East.

But they never even got to the table....or under the table...or was it on the table? Oh well.

[bleedXblue]

TCU to Big 12...

TCU has been invited to join the Big 12 Conference and is expected to accept the offer for the 2012-13 school year, college football industry sources told CBSSports.com.



TCU was scheduled to join the Big East on July 1, 2012, but instead will join the Big 12. By leaving the Big East before it officially became a member, the Horned Frogs will have to pay a $5 million exit fee but is not bound by the Big East’s 27 month requirement for notification.



Big East is in big, big trouble...



Or Missouri stays in the B12 if TCU joins.

Thats may then prompt the SEC to either hang tight for a year OR invite WVU....?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Second announcement from the Big 12 coming today (Allegedly).

[xudash]

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32536916

TCU is gone (from the BE).

NOTE: Didn't see bleedxblue's post above.

The other key phrase in the article has to do with the hierarchy of the remaining schools under consideration for Big XII membership - presuming a move back to 12 programs:

Louisville
BYU
WVU
UC

[XUglow]

Or Missouri stays in the B12 if TCU joins.

Thats may then prompt the SEC to either hang tight for a year OR invite WVU....?

TCU was good last year. This year, they are OK, but they have lost to Baylor and SMU. Let that seep in a bit.

TCU averaged a bit over 30K per game the last couple of years, and those numbers are GREATLY inflated. The team has been great, they have Gary Patterson, and they may be putting 25K butts in the seats. What happens if Patterson leaves and/or they play average to bad football? They are in a major metropolitan area that loves football. Why is it that so few people care?

TCU is not a great replacement for TAMU or Mizzou. The Big 12 knew that XX years ago.

[xudash]

Or Missouri stays in the B12 if TCU joins.

Thats may then prompt the SEC to either hang tight for a year OR invite WVU....?

From Mizzou's point of view: stay because TCU is joining or go to the preeminent conference in the country for a bundle of money and stability for as far as the eye can see.

I doubt TCU or anything else will keep Missouri from making a b-line to the SEC.

[GoMuskies]

I doubt TCU or anything else will keep Missouri from making a b-line to the SEC.

The SEC not wanting them seems to be an obtacle at present.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The SEC not wanting them seems to be an obtacle at present.

Missouri has some horrible PR. Why in the world would they say (Paraphrasing) "We wanted to go to the Big 10 but we'll settle for the SEC" in public

Just stupid

[waggy]

Army
Navy
East Carolina
Temple
UCF
SMU

That's pretty much the extent of what's available to the BE. Only Temple has a real BBall program, so I can't see any of these being offered full membership.

Memphis is in the heart of SEC country and will never amount to anything in football.

This thing might really die, but I don't trust the big zombie to die on it's own.

Edit: And I should add that Army already said no, and Navy is taking a wait and see.

[xudash]

Missouri has some horrible PR. Why in the world would they say (Paraphrasing) "We wanted to go to the Big 10 but we'll settle for the SEC" in public

Just stupid

Excellent point.

GoMuskies, is that true - I thought the SEC had already mentioned Missouri as a candidate?

Otherwise, I tried to rep you for the TCU 15 seconds post. Well done.

[GoMuskies]

According to CBS (I think, I've read so many damned articles I can't keep them all straight), Mizzou has a majority of the votes from SEC members....but not enough for membership.

[waggy]

TCU doesn't make a lot sense except that it puts another dagger in the zombie. If the zombie were to have kept TCU and added SMU it would have given them a niche in Texas.

[GoMuskies]

TCU doesn't make a lot sense except that it puts another dagger in the zombie.

The fact that TCU actually makes all the sense in the world (they play major college footballl...hello Rose Bowl...right in the heart of the Big XII's geographic footprint) and yet at the same time I cannot really argue with your statement is just testament to how insane this whole conference realignment process has become.

[waggy]

The fact that TCU actually makes all the sense in the world (they play major college footballl...hello Rose Bowl...right in the heart of the Big XII's geographic footprint) and yet at the same time I cannot really argue with your statement is just testament to how insane this whole conference realignment process has become.

I was thinking more along the lines of size of institutions. Don't know how big Baylor is. Maybe similiar to TCU?

[X-band '01]

TCU doesn't make a lot sense except that it puts another dagger in the zombie.

You just explained it all in the 1st sentence - the ACC's M.O. was to kill the Big East by adding Syracuse and Pitt. The Big X is following the same M.O. to act in self-preservation.

[waggy]

Another thing in TCU's favor is it doesn't have to extradite itself from another conference, and can pretty much play right away. No fuss, no muss.

[GoMuskies]

Another thing in TCU's favor is it doesn't have to extridite itself from another conference, and can pretty much play right away. No fuss, no muss.

They have to pay a $5 million exit fee to the Big East. But they are available right away.

[waggy]

They have to pay a $5 million exit fee to the Big East. But they are available right away.

B12 can pay that out of the Mizzou proceeds, and be $35M ahead.

[XUmeat]

They have to pay a $5 million exit fee to the Big East. But they are available right away.

I was wondering if they will be able to pay less than that based on the fact that they did not sign up for BE w no Cuse, Pitt, and Uconn w/ one foot out the door. Pure speculation, but seems somewhat reasonable. Either way, it won't stop them for splitting.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

TCU doesn't make a lot sense except that it puts another dagger in the zombie. If the zombie were to have kept TCU and added SMU it would have given them a niche in Texas.

http://gifsoup.com/view3/1177710/shaun-of-the-dead-hitting-scen-o.gif

[LA Muskie]

Or Missouri stays in the B12 if TCU joins.

Thats may then prompt the SEC to either hang tight for a year OR invite WVU....?
If Mizz stays, it's not because TCU has joined. It's because the SEC won't take them.

[LA Muskie]

I was wondering if they will be able to pay less than that based on the fact that they did not sign up for BE w no Cuse, Pitt, and Uconn w/ one foot out the door. Pure speculation, but seems somewhat reasonable. Either way, it won't stop them for splitting.

I suspect there will be negotiations over that fee. They can (quite rightfully, I think) argue that the Big East is not the conference they left for. Sort of a bait-and-switch, if you will.

[waggy]

Wonder what Notre Dame is thinking about what's become of their olympic sports conference?

[LA Muskie]

Missouri has some horrible PR. Why in the world would they say (Paraphrasing) "We wanted to go to the Big 10 but we'll settle for the SEC" in public.
That wasn't an authorized statement. Whomever said it either (i) clearly prefers staying in the Big XII and is trying to tank the situation; or (ii) knows that there may be some serious trouble getting into the SEC and is trying to create an excuse if they "choose" to stay in the Big XII.

[xavierj]

Wonder what Notre Dame is thinking about what's become of their olympic sports conference?

Notre Dame doesn't care. They can go anywhere they want.

[SM#24]

According to CBS (I think, I've read so many damned articles I can't keep them all straight), Mizzou has a majority of the votes from SEC members....but not enough for membership.

I thought I read somewhere else it's 7-5 in favor. They need 9 to pass.

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/32536267

[SM#24]

Notre Dame doesn't care. They can go anywhere they want.

not without bringing football

[Founding Father]

not without bringing football

The remaining bball schools in the BE still make up a good conference that ND can bring their other sports to. I do think ND might find it harder and harder to schedule late season games as conferences grow in size.

[LA Muskie]

The remaining bball schools in the BE still make up a good conference that ND can bring their other sports to. I do think ND might find it harder and harder to schedule late season games as conferences grow in size.
They are fully scheduled through 2016 and have at least 5 games scheduled through 2019. I doubt that's a huge consideration. Fact is that unless they have a major resurrection in the next 6 years, they are probably going to have to join a football conference anyway. Nobody else is going to give them NBC money (not even NBC with its new ownership) if they remain marginal BCS qualifiers. Ironically, even if that comes to pass, they would be welcomed with open arms into any conference they want.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

@tsnmike: RT @davesittler "Big 12 source: Louisville is next in line"

[LA Muskie]

@tsnmike: RT @davesittler "Big 12 source: Louisville is next in line"
The SEC is going to have to make a move. ND's not going to the dance, so they're going to have to move on. They would likely next prefer one of the ACC schools, but unless there are unreported escape hatches (always a possibility), the exit fees there will likely be prohibitive. That leaves WVU and Mizz. I don't think there is universal support in the SEC for either, but unless it wants the Big XII to make the decision for it, it's going to have to move.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The SEC is going to have to make a move. ND's not going to the dance, so they're going to have to move on. They would likely next prefer one of the ACC schools, but unless there are unreported escape hatches (always a possibility), the exit fees there will likely be prohibitive. That leaves WVU and Mizz. I don't think there is universal support in the SEC for either, but unless it wants the Big XII to make the decision for it, it's going to have to move.

I think we'll see Mizz in SEC and TCU, BYU, UL and WVU or UC in the Big 12

Gonna be a long weekend for Mike Bobinski...

[LA Muskie]

I think we'll see Mizz in SEC and TCU, BYU, UL and WVU or UC in the Big 12
I think you are right. The Big XII becomes much more intriguing to BYU with the additions. Frankly I think they've just been waiting to make sure the ship didn't pop another hole and sink.

I also think we will quickly thereafter see UConn and Rutgers to the ACC. Although at that point they may have to pay their way in to compensate the ACC for saving their asses. (Only somewhat joking...)

EDIT: Although as I sit here and think about it, is there anyone else out there thinking that the SEC may secretly be considering Rutgers?

[GoMuskies]

@tsnmike: Rt @davesittler "big 12 source: Louisville is next in line"

hell to the yes!!!!

[GoMuskies]

is there anyone else out there thinking that the SEC may secretly be considering Rutgers?

No.

[xavierj]

not without bringing football

Notre Dame doesn't care. They will not join a football conference anytime soon. They can find some place to play women's and men's basketball, baseball, swimming, Lacrosse and other sports. They already play in a different hockey conference. In my opinion ND is likely to join for all sports except football with whatever conference is made up of the basketball playing schools and they will stay independent in Football.

[principal]

@tsnmike: RT @davesittler "Big 12 source: Louisville is next in line"

Two more interesting tweets from this guy:

1. Bi 12: source: "Could stay at nine for a year if Missouri leave."

2. Source: Even if NCAA changes its mind, Texas has agreed to no highlights or interviews of high school players on Longhorn Network.

So MO leaving doesn't necessarily equal bringing in L'Ville and TX has backed off of some of what originally upset A&M. Of course who knows whether this B12 source is giving his opinion or stating the current mood of the decision makers.

[SM#24]

Notre Dame doesn't care. They will not join a football conference anytime soon. They can find some place to play women's and men's basketball, baseball, swimming, Lacrosse and other sports. They already play in a different hockey conference. In my opinion ND is likely to join for all sports except football with whatever conference is made up of the basketball playing schools and they will stay independent in Football.

I agree they will want to keep football independent, but they cannot join any conference they want without football, otherwise, they would already be in the ACC.

Their Olympic sports (particularly women's basketball) are very important to them. That's why I commented either in this thread or one of the others, that ND's decision will be very interesting once the BE football schools have gone their separate ways because ND loves things just the way they are right now. They may have no choice but to jump in with the BE basketball schools, but that's far from their top choice right now.

Also, right now, every school is in a different conference for hockey (and soon every school but 6 once B1G hockey starts).

[xu95]

Alabama is currently holding this up. If Mizzou joins the West Division and Auburn moves East as discussed, Alabama will more than likely lose their yearly game with Tennessee. They have asked the conference to consider an ACC team.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Big 12 administrator just told me that the league is expected to settle at 10 schools.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
The Big 12 would like Missouri to be No. 10. "It looks promising right now." If not, its moved on to Louisville.


Cmon SEC. Accept Missouri

[GoMuskies]

Yes, please do.

[xudash]

You need 12 programs for a football play-off game, right?

Why would the Big XII wait? Is it that the spreadsheets do not reflect the right revenue numbers when UL, WVU and BYU (or which ever) are brought into the model for consideration? Editor's note: I presume their running the model with the presumption of revenue from a conference championship game in it for that scenario.

This is where optimizing money should be smoothed around its edges by also optimizing stability. Consolidation will continue: pick the best of the remaining programs off the BE shelf and be done with it. Especially do that if one of your league members - Mizzou - is actively exploring its options.

Why on God's earth would the BXII stop at 10 now?

[LA Muskie]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Big 12 administrator just told me that the league is expected to settle at 10 schools.

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
The Big 12 would like Missouri to be No. 10. "It looks promising right now." If not, its moved on to Louisville.
Folks, we have a game of chicken. Both the Big XII and the SEC want to make another move, but neither wants to be the straw that breaks the Big East's back. So they're just sitting there and staring at each other at this point, while Mizz stares at the SEC as if to say "c'mon man...don't just leave me hanging here!"

[LA Muskie]

Why on God's earth would the BXII stop at 10 now?
See my post below, which was submitted before I saw yours but which applies with equal force.

[paulxu]

Alabama is currently holding this up. If Mizzou joins the West Division and Auburn moves East as discussed, Alabama will more than likely lose their yearly game with Tennessee. They have asked the conference to consider an ACC team.

Being old fashion, I like the idea of some geographical sense to conferences/divisions.
Of course the recent movement has blown that out of the water. Interesting that a holdover tradition is slowing the SEC down. Tradition certainly didn't keep A&M in place.

[paulxu]

You need 12 programs for a football play-off game, right?

Why on God's earth would the BXII stop at 10 now?

I think you do need 12 teams for a play-off.

No reason to stop...unless the Big 12 wants to take the Big 10 name....and the Big 10 can become the Big 12. At least the math will be right.

Bonus points to Pac 10 for changing name to match number of actual members.

[SM#24]

Alabama is currently holding this up. If Mizzou joins the West Division and Auburn moves East as discussed, Alabama will more than likely lose their yearly game with Tennessee. They have asked the conference to consider an ACC team.

On one of the sites, someone wrote about putting Missouri in the SEC East to combat this issue. While at first blush, it makes no sense, when you look closer, the avg. distance between Missouri and SEC East schools is only 100 miles more than with SEC West schools. They're pretty far away from everyone; other than Arkansas, everything is a 7-8 hour+ drive, and Ark. is still a five hour drive. You could make Missouri-Texas A&M the protected crossover rivalry and no one else's has to change.

Fayetteville, AR 310 miles
Oxford, MS 480 miles
Starkville, MS 575 miles
Tuscaloosa, AL 620 miles
Baton Rouge, LA 770 miles
College Station, TX 780 miles
Average travel distance = 589 miles

Nashville, TN 430
Lexington, KY 460
Knoxville, TN 610
Athens, GA 740
Columbia, SC 870
Gainsville, FL 1000
AVERAGE = 685 Miles

Some of the dissention is that the SEC "could do better" than Missouri. Not quite sure with who, or at least with who is available. New, sizable market, AAU school, competitive in both football and basketball.

[SM#24]

Why on God's earth would the BXII stop at 10 now?

Because for some reason, that is what Texas wants.

[HuskyMuskie]

Because for some reason, that is what Texas wants.

More than likely due to Big XII voting to equalize revenue sharing now. If they are sharing, Texas and OU don't want another slice taken out of their pie (as well as any other school in the Big XII, one would think.)

[Muskie]

Will this thread reach 200 pages?

[xavierj]

It does not matter if the Big 12 stops, Big East football is dead. They will lose their BCS automatic qualifier with TCU bailing anyway and no one wants to be there. UCONN is as good as gone soon as well. I would imagine that if the SEC does not take Missouri they will take at least one team from the Big East.

[anXUfan]

I think the Big East will bend over backwards to make sure that any remaining football members can stay in the conference for all sports, even if that means inviting a host of mediocre schools to join. I bet G'town, Nova, etc will be fine with dominating a weaker basketball conference that would still in any case be pretty solid. I see very little chance of X being invited to the Big East. I really hope Bobinski isn't banking on it.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Will this thread reach 200 pages?

Since I have my viewing settings at 40 posts per page I certainly hope not. This thread is at 33 pages on that setting...but at this rate even that setting could go for at least 100 pages!

[bobbiemcgee]

What? I thought we had a clarity post?

[xudash]

What? I thought we had a clarity post?

The idiot who started that thread didn't know what he was talking about.

[BMoreX]

Texas doesn't want a championship game for football.

[xu95]

Texas doesn't want a championship game for football.

I'm sure they don't but that doesn't make any sense. The amount of money that the SEC (and the Big 10 soon) get for a championship game more than makes up for the other two members.

[xavierj]

I think the Big East will bend over backwards to make sure that any remaining football members can stay in the conference for all sports, even if that means inviting a host of mediocre schools to join. I bet G'town, Nova, etc will be fine with dominating a weaker basketball conference that would still in any case be pretty solid. I see very little chance of X being invited to the Big East. I really hope Bobinski isn't banking on it.

it doesn't matter if the big east bends over backwards. It's about football. If you are not in one of the power football conferences you will get left behind. Uconn, louisville and WVU understand this. Not sure UC does. If UC gets left behind they will become the equivalent of western kentucky.

[anXUfan]

I hear you, but I think the Big East is more likely to take a handful of Western Kentuckies than X. They're just not going to tell UC or whomever to hit the road. They'll give them a football league to play in BCS auto-bid or not.

[xavierj]

I hear you, but I think the Big East is more likely to take a handful of Western Kentuckies than X. They're just not going to tell UC or whomever to hit the road. They'll give them a football league to play in BCS auto-bid or not.

yeah but there will not be a big east football league. If you play football you will need to find another league. What will uc do when all other football schools are gone?

[LA Muskie]

yeah but there will not be a big east football league. If you play football you will need to find another league. What will uc do when all other football schools are gone?

Not saying I agree, but I believe his point is that, one way or another, the BE will find a way to fill out its football league -- even if it means adding a slew of state directional schools.

[xubrew]

As bad as the Big East would be, they may not lose their BCS AQ status. For starters, it's unclear exactly who it is that will make the decision to take it away from them. If they have seven football teams, they'll most likely be tied in to the BCS in some fashion. They are a part of the make up of it.

As far as Mizzou joining the SEC, the mood in the south is less than excited. They didn't particularly want TAMU, but had no real problems. Mizzou is cold in the winter, it's a long way to drive in an RV, and they don't have nearly enough fried food or sweet tea to suit most SEC members. That, and there is nothing particularly exciting about them. Seeing as how Texas is now sharing revenue, I think Mizzou is better suited where they are. They're getting revenue, they're in a stable conference, and they maintain their traditional rivalries.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/sports/ncaafootball/big-east-loses-texas-christian-putting-football-future-in-doubt.html

Pete Thamel

"As for the basketball colleges, they have pledged loyalty to their football brethren. But talk has been cheap in recent weeks. Look for Xavier, Butler, Dayton and Richmond to emerge as possible basketball additions if the Big East goes back to its basketball roots."

[xudash]

As bad as the Big East would be, they may not lose their BCS AQ status. For starters, it's unclear exactly who it is that will make the decision to take it away from them. If they have seven football teams, they'll most likely be tied in to the BCS in some fashion. They are a part of the make up of it.

As far as Mizzou joining the SEC, the mood in the south is less than excited. They didn't particularly want TAMU, but had no real problems. Mizzou is cold in the winter, it's a long way to drive in an RV, and they don't have nearly enough fried food or sweet tea to suit most SEC members. That, and there is nothing particularly exciting about them. Seeing as how Texas is now sharing revenue, I think Mizzou is better suited where they are. They're getting revenue, they're in a stable conference, and they maintain their traditional rivalries.

That would be the BCS Agreement, based on conferences being evaluated against certain performance criteria. The BE can't afford any more hits - it may be too late now anyway - given the teams being targeted and how they would grade out agains the criteria. They were discussing this specific issue earlier this evening on the ESPN college football show.

[xavierj]

My point was that if say UCONN, Louisville and WVU leave, which is a very good possibility, and then you add weak teams you will then have a conference that is weaker than the MAC and CUSA. There would be no reason to keep a football Big east conference. If there is any remaining BE football schools left in the end they will have to go to CUSA. Which for UC would probably be a good thing for all of their sports. They just can't compete football wise with the big time teams in regards to football facilities and football revenue and to be honest that is all that really matters in the college landscape of athletics. Basketball is peanuts to Universities when you get right down to it. I mean Texas has a $130 million dollar athletic budget and probably about 10% goes to basketball, another 5% to the other sports and 85% to football.

[xu95]

it doesn't matter if the big east bends over backwards. It's about football. If you are not in one of the power football conferences you will get left behind. Uconn, louisville and WVU understand this. Not sure UC does. If UC gets left behind they will become the equivalent of western kentucky.

No, WKU has been decent in basketball sometime in the last decade.

xu95

[bleedXblue]

I think the Big East will bend over backwards to make sure that any remaining football members can stay in the conference for all sports, even if that means inviting a host of mediocre schools to join. I bet G'town, Nova, etc will be fine with dominating a weaker basketball conference that would still in any case be pretty solid. I see very little chance of X being invited to the Big East. I really hope Bobinski isn't banking on it.

So you're saying the Big East is going to be ok with adding a bunch of mediocre football schools and are going to stand pat and not try to improve their basketball league ?

That isn't going to happen. Period.

The basketball only schools have what to gain then ?

The leverage would then be firmly on the side of the basketball only schools and they are going to want to have the best possible league they can.

I dont know if X will get an invite, but it would make sense when the dust settles to "enhance" the league with the HUGE losses of Pitt, Syracuse and likely UL, UC or WVU.

Temple is a no brainer and I think X gets serious consideration. UC has almost no leverage to block us as they just dont have a big enough stick to make that happen.

[XUmeat]

So you're saying the Big East is going to be ok with adding a bunch of mediocre football schools and are going to stand pat and not try to improve their basketball league ?

That isn't going to happen. Period.

The basketball only schools have what to gain then ?

The leverage would then be firmly on the side of the basketball only schools and they are going to want to have the best possible league they can.

I dont know if X will get an invite, but it would make sense when the dust settles to "enhance" the league with the HUGE losses of Pitt, Syracuse and likely UL, UC or WVU.

Temple is a no brainer and I think X gets serious consideration. UC has almost no leverage to block us as they just dont have a big enough stick to make that happen.

I don't question that UC could or would block XU, but I don't understand why they care? What do they stand to lose? Wouldn't it just add to the rivarly?

[xudash]

So you're saying the Big East is going to be ok with adding a bunch of mediocre football schools and are going to stand pat and not try to improve their basketball league ?

That isn't going to happen. Period.

The basketball only schools have what to gain then ?

The leverage would then be firmly on the side of the basketball only schools and they are going to want to have the best possible league they can.

I dont know if X will get an invite, but it would make sense when the dust settles to "enhance" the league with the HUGE losses of Pitt, Syracuse and likely UL, UC or WVU.

Temple is a no brainer and I think X gets serious consideration. UC has almost no leverage to block us as they just dont have a big enough stick to make that happen.

Exactly.

The basketball schools only see value in continuing the hybrid IF the revised hybrid can be made to make sense to television executives. They already know that isn't likely, given the cast of characters that are on their radar as replacements. They also happen to be in an especially tough place given that they MOST LIKELY haven't stopped losing teams yet.

Even as the BE stands today - the football schools it has with rumors of adding a service academy or two and the likes of UCF - the basketball schools know that a continuing emphasis on football at all costs will dilute the basketball product; basketball will suffer at the expense of attempting to save the football product via a longshot effort.

It's slip-sliding away, and UC may end up in the mud at the end of the slide.

[dc_x]

Exactly.

The basketball schools only see value in continuing the hybrid IF the revised hybrid can be made to make sense to television executives. They already know that isn't likely, given the cast of characters that are on their radar as replacements. They also happen to be in an especially tough place given that they MOST LIKELY haven't stopped losing teams yet.

Even as the BE stands today - the football schools it has with rumors of adding a service academy or two and the likes of UCF - the basketball schools know that a continuing emphasis on football at all costs will dilute the basketball product; basketball will suffer at the expense of attempting to save the football product via a longshot effort.

It's slip-sliding away, and UC may end up in the mud at the end of the slide.

It seems like a priorioty for the BE would be to keep Notre Dame. I'm not sure whether ND would prefer a hybrid league with a bunch of directional schools or a basketball-only league or neither??

I would think any format that would keep ND in the fold would be the best in terms of TV revenues for the league as a whole.

[outsideobserver11]

One thing that is being overlooked is that even if Louisville is next in line for the big 12, there is still that 27 month waiting period that louisville would have to get waved to go into the big 12 for the 2012-2013 year. The big 12 could be stuck with 9 schools and i don't know that they would like that.

I also found it interesting that Swaim yesterday was reporting that BYU is no longer in the running for the big 12. If that truly is the case then UC could be catching a huge break there.

My guess is that the big 12 is going to add schools in waves instead of all at once. They will try to work out a way to buyout Louisville from the Big East conference for the start of the 2012-2013 year, and then will add West Virginia and UC for the start of the 2013-2014 year to get back to 12 schools.

[Founding Father]

One thing that is being overlooked is that even if Louisville is next in line for the big 12, there is still that 27 month waiting period that louisville would have to get waved to go into the big 12 for the 2012-2013 year. The big 12 could be stuck with 9 schools and i don't know that they would like that.

I also found it interesting that Swaim yesterday was reporting that BYU is no longer in the running for the big 12. If that truly is the case then UC could be catching a huge break there.

My guess is that the big 12 is going to add schools in waves instead of all at once. They will try to work out a way to buyout Louisville from the Big East conference for the start of the 2012-2013 year, and then will add West Virginia and UC for the start of the 2013-2014 year to get back to 12 schools.

Still a lot of speculation out there right now but let's assume Mizzou ends up getting the votes to get in the SEC, BYU better think long and hard about remaining independent with the way things are heading.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Looks like the Big East will announce some invitations today.

East Carolina and Central Florida are hinted at to join the Big East today

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2011/10/06/east-carolina-central-florida-next-big-east-members/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/sports/ncaafootball/big-east-presidents-to-discuss-possible-new-members.html

Temple could follow soon

[Founding Father]

Looks like the Big East will announce some invitations today.

East Carolina and Central Florida are hinted at to join the Big East today

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2011/10/06/east-carolina-central-florida-next-big-east-members/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/sports/ncaafootball/big-east-presidents-to-discuss-possible-new-members.html

Temple could follow soon

Full members or football only members?

[paulxu]

Why would you join a conference that is almost certain to lose important members in the near future.
The Big 12 moved to solidify with revenue sharing and keeping TCU.
Even if they lose Mizzou they'll add to stay around, probably from the BE, let alone Conn and Rutgers still trying to bail to ACC.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Full members or football only members?

That's the question...I know if Navy and Air Force were to join, it would be football only. No idea about Temple/ECU/UCF.

[Founding Father]

That's the question...I know if Navy and Air Force were to join, it would be football only. No idea about Temple/ECU/UCF.

The BE clearly does not need more bball playing schools and ECU and UCF add nothing in bball. Are the bball only schools going to just sit there and "take it" or can they stop adding full members as a voting block?

[GoMuskies]

Are the bball only schools going to just sit there and "take it" or can they stop adding full members as a voting block?

The basketball-onlys I'm sure can deal with UCF, ECU and Temple so long as they get to keep Louisville, UConn, UC and WV.

[anXUfan]

Like I said. The Big East will not turn its back on any existing members. Nor will the basketball schools be willing to play in anything less than a top tier conference. And top tier means football. No one in this process gives a sh!t about basketball, and that's X's calling card. The Big East isn't just going to surrender it's BCS AQ status - no way. Someone will have to take it from them. In the meantime they will cherry-pick football schools from historically lesser conferences, simultaneously bolstering their case to retain AQ status and widening the gap between the Big East and CUSA, the MAC, etc.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Big East hoops schools need a divorce

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/big_east_hoops_schools_need_divorce_LC9C28lBjrBu0W R0pzJmgP

'It's time for the non-FBS members to divorce themselves from their football brethren.

The "Hoop Schools" have hung in there long enough. They've supported the football schools by agreeing to an arduous (and bloated) membership that allowed for just three home-and-home opponents.

"How much more are we supposed to stomach?" asked one high-ranking Big East official.

No more. The football conference is doomed, and the hoops schools need to make sure they don't drown in the wake'

......

'DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova and perhaps Notre Dame (which again must consider trading its cherished status as a football independent for the good of its Olympic sports and join the Big Ten) need to go back to their deep roots of proud basketball schools located in urban markets.

College football isn't the city game. College basketball is.

Those hoop-centric members need to reach out to Dayton, Duquesne, LaSalle, St. Joseph's, St. Louis and Xavier and form a blockbuster hoops league that can continue to attract the top recruits and command a TV contract commensurate with their history and footprint'

[xudash]

The basketball-onlys I'm sure can deal with UCF, ECU and Temple so long as they get to keep Louisville, UConn, UC and WV.

But they don't get to keep them - for long.

[GoMuskies]

Good idea minus LaSuck and Duquesne. And I'd prefer Richmond to SLU.

[GoMuskies]

But they don't get to keep them - for long.

That's likely true. But that's what this mad scramble is about. Trying to keep them.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Good idea minus LaSuck and Duquesne. And I'd prefer Richmond to SLU.

My dream league would be Dayton, UC, Fordham, Lasalle, Duquesne, St Bonaventure, Depaul, Seton Hall, Morehead State, IPFW, Evansville, Arkansas Pine Bluff, and NJIT

[GoMuskies]

I'd replace Seton Hall with Longwood (that's what she said), and you've got it about right.

[xudash]

Like I said. The Big East will not turn its back on any existing members. Nor will the basketball schools be willing to play in anything less than a top tier conference. And top tier means football. No one in this process gives a sh!t about basketball, and that's X's calling card. The Big East isn't just going to surrender it's BCS AQ status - no way. Someone will have to take it from them. In the meantime they will cherry-pick football schools from historically lesser conferences, simultaneously bolstering their case to retain AQ status and widening the gap between the Big East and CUSA, the MAC, etc.

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819597

As it sits contractually today, the BE is "protected" through the 2013 season with respect to contractual AQ status. But that's the problem: it's a contract. Does anyone here honestly believe that people like Slive and Delaney are going to be happy about the idea of WVU, UConn or Rutgers plowing through Temple, UCF and other CUSA schools on their way to a BCS bid? In fact, 2 of the 3 BE schools I mentioned are crap right now.

These BCS power-elite haven't forgotten that UConn LOST money on its BCS bowl when it couldn't soak up its ticket allocation. The BE looks ridiculous to them now and it's about to get worse.

The BE is about to become anything but a top tier conference, assuming it holds together for football at all. Would I, if I were the AD of a school like Temple or UCF, accept a BE invitation at present? Probably, if it weren't financially prohibitive for me to do so. I would truly regard it as the last train out of town as these things go. But I also would understand that I could be within 10 days - literally - of losing the likes of UL or maybe a WVU to a Big XII, which, itself, is still in the process of shoring up its position. I also would be careful not to sign up for any kind of exit fee arrangement.

On that note, I truly wouldn't be surprised to read at some point about TCU's legal counsel going after the BE over its exit fee. The BE didn't hold up its end of the deal with respect to maintaining itself as a valuable property, or at least as a property that held the same amount of value upon TCU's exit as it had upon its entrance.

[SM#24]

The basketball-onlys I'm sure can deal with UCF, ECU and Temple so long as they get to keep Louisville, UConn, UC and WV.

Exactly, but in order, it's really (1) UConn and (2) Louisville and then to a lesser extent WVU, UC and maybe Rutgers.
The Bball schools will be driven by the desires of Gtown, St. John's and Villanova. Marq wants to be in a conference with those 3 and ND, so whatever they decide, they'll do. PC, SH & DePaul are just hoping they get taken along for the ride.
ND wants to be in the best conference it can that will allow it to remain indy in football. I'm sure they will look to the ACC or B12 to see if they will accept that deal.

For all our wishful thinking over the years and sermonizing on what "makes sense" at the end of the day, Gtown/StJ/Vnova valued and wanted to be aligned with Syr, Pitt and UConn. Now two of those are definitely gone and UConn is in a wait and see mode.

I believe the bball schools will remain in a conference that includes UConn and Louisville, and that will be enough to keep ND. But once those two fall off, someone will have to explain to me why they (and ND) would remain in a league with UC, SFla, and maybe WVU and Rutgers; and then a bunch of CUSA schools.
I don't think there will be a split until all the desirables are gone. So, schools like X are waiting on the SEC, B12 & ACC to act.

[SM#24]

http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819597

Does anyone here honestly believe that people like Slive and Delaney are going to be happy about the idea of WVU, UConn or Rutgers plowing through Temple, UCF and other CUSA schools on their way to a BCS bid?

They may not be happy about it, but they may be advised by counsel to do so. The last thing the BCS syndicate wants is Congress on their back any more that it is now. Making the BCS more exclusive will do exactly that. It's not like they can substitute the MWC for the Big East as that conference has also de-valued.

[anXUfan]

XUdash I hope you're right, but as I read it, those criteria you linked to only apply to the potential inclusion of a 7th AQ conference. I see nothing that puts the current 6 at any real risk.

Again, I hope you're right, but it really seems like all these decisions are being exclusively driven by football, and X doesn't have a card to play.

[waggy]

Even after UConn and Louisville leave, and ND says it's had enough, the BBall schools could still cobble together a hybrid with the remnants and adding the likes of UMass, Temple, etc. This could go on for a long time. It may not be a conference that qualifies for an auto BCS bid, but it might be viewed the better alternative by the BBall schools.

[paulxu]

Those hoop-centric members need to reach out to Dayton, Duquesne, LaSalle, St. Joseph's, St. Louis and Xavier and form a blockbuster hoops league that can continue to attract the top recruits and command a TV contract commensurate with their history and footprint'

If they have to add a school that ends in "...ton," can I suggest Creighton?

[xavierj]

Even after UConn and Louisville leave, and ND says it's had enough, the BBall schools could still cobble together a hybrid with the remnants and adding the likes of UMass, Temple, etc. This could go on for a long time. It may not be a conference that qualifies for an auto BCS bid, but it might be viewed the better alternative by the BBall schools.

Why would it be a better alternative for the basketball schools? They don't play football. If you are a basketball school you should be interested in joining forces with the best basketball teams you can that share similar interest and stand together. Why align yourself with schools that want to be included in the football money and power and could care less about the basketball schools? To be honest it really does not make much sense now that Seton Hall, Marquette, Providence, Villanova and Georgetown are in a conference with a bunch of state sponsored football playing schools that do not share one thing in common. I am sure the mission statement at the catholic playing big east teams is quite a bit different than that of the University of Cincinnati.

[XUmeat]

Gregg Doyel goes in on Big LEAST football, ouch... I personally enjoyed the last 2 lines:

As if it hasn't jumped the shark already ... if the BCS doesn't take away the automatic bid from the Big East for the 2012 season, I'd ask the following:

Who's running the BCS? Arthur Fonzarelli?

Listen, I live in Cincinnati and don't enjoy the watering down of my own backyard football program, but facts are facts. And the fact is, the Big East probably didn't deserve a BCS bid at full strength -- and the Big East definitely won't deserve a BCS bid next year, barring something crazy like Notre Dame (or Texas) joining.

And since the Big East is looking instead at schools like East Carolina, Central Florida and Memphis ... well, there you have it. This is not a BCS league.

This is not even the Mountain West.

No offense to you, Mountain West.

And no offense to you, either, West Virginia. The Mountaineers deserve better than to be in such a weakened league, but that's where West Virginia is. Surrounded by mediocre, at best, football schools. And West Virginia plus a whole host of mediocre football schools does not equal a BCS bid.

I mean, that's not an even an opinion.

That's a fact.

[LA Muskie]

If the BE can keep itself together, I think there's going to be a lot of pressure -- legal, personal and otherwise -- to maintain their BCS AQ. They won't deserve it, but I think they'll keep it for a while.

If that happens, there is a huge incentive to the basketball playing schools: negotiate a cut of football revenue, without having to field a team. All upside.

As for the 27-month exit period, the BE can't release 'Cuse and Pitt until the conference has a critical mass to proceed for the next two years (or, more accurately, it would be dumb to). Once the BE has secured its new schools, it can cut them loose -- at a significant cost to them, of course.

Once again, it's all about $$$ -- and that $$$ may well keep the dysfunctional marriage together.

[Founding Father]

The basketball-onlys I'm sure can deal with UCF, ECU and Temple so long as they get to keep Louisville, UConn, UC and WV.

The bball onlys know that UCONN, WVU and Louisville want out as does UC. So if they vote to add in full members of ECU, UCF and Temple now, they are going to be stuck with them when UCONN, WVU and Louisville leave.

Why wouldn't they say "add them as football only members" for NOW and they can alway add them in as full members down the road if it looks like UCONN, WVU and Louisville get stuck.

[LA Muskie]

The bball onlys know that UCONN, WVU and Louisville want out as does UC. So if they vote to add in full members of ECU, UCF and Temple now, they are going to be stuck with them when UCONN, WVU and Louisville leave.

Why wouldn't they say "add them as football only members" for NOW and they can alway add them in as full members down the road if it looks like UCONN, WVU and Louisville get stuck.
I don't think that's realistically where this is headed. If UConn, WVU and Louisville are going to bolt, it will happen in a matter of weeks. If they don't get the offers they are hoping for (if it comes to that), the rest of the BE will enact much more onerous exit terms to create stability. It may not buy permanent peace, but it will buy relatively long-term peace.

[waggy]

Why would it be a better alternative for the basketball schools? They don't play football. If you are a basketball school you should be interested in joining forces with the best basketball teams you can that share similar interest and stand together. Why align yourself with schools that want to be included in the football money and power and could care less about the basketball schools? To be honest it really does not make much sense now that Seton Hall, Marquette, Providence, Villanova and Georgetown are in a conference with a bunch of state sponsored football playing schools that do not share one thing in common. I am sure the mission statement at the catholic playing big east teams is quite a bit different than that of the University of Cincinnati.

Until there is an actual split or the football side is actually shut down, then the possibility exists that an attempt will be made to strengthen it.

Even the most "optimistic" realignment scenario will mean at least one BE football school remains, and more likely it'll be at least three. Do you think they can just be dismissed from the conference? Hell, the A10 can't get rid of La Salle.

Memphis and Temple are two programs in which they would lose nothing in terms of BBall strength.

Does UMass bring a better (potential) fan base than X?

What about travel?

[GoMuskies]

Does UMass bring a better (potential) fan base than X?



No.

[waggy]

No.

Uh, it's an entire state.

[GoMuskies]

Uh, it's an entire state.

That could not be less interested in college sports.

Take a look at the header on the Boston.com sports page: http://www.boston.com/sports/?p1=GN_Sports

[waggy]

That could not be less interested in college sports.

Take a look at the header on the Boston.com sports page: http://www.boston.com/sports/?p1=GN_Sports

The ad header? Mine says something about stanley cup champ rings.

But you won't often find X as the lead story of the sports section of the cincy enemaquirer either.

[muskienick]

Even after UConn and Louisville leave, and ND says it's had enough, the BBall schools could still cobble together a hybrid with the remnants and adding the likes of UMass, Temple, etc. This could go on for a long time. It may not be a conference that qualifies for an auto BCS bid, but it might be viewed the better alternative by the BBall schools.

If UConn and Louisville land somewhere, one would have to think that WVU would also be gone --- probably to the Big 12 or SEC (if they can swing an invite).

At that point (if it happens), what possible reason would the Big East's BB members have for wanting to have a hybrid Conference to appease South Florida, Rutgers, and UC? Would you want a Basketball Conference with those three plus East Carolina, Central Florida, and God knows who else ---- or one with the likes of Xavier, Butler, UD, Richmond, and St. Louis?

[GoMuskies]

The ad header? Mine says something about stanley cup champ rings.

But you won't often find X as the lead story of the sports section of the cincy enemaquirer either.

Start at sports and go right: Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins, Revolution (!) (all with logos), then in tiny letters "High School" "Colleges".

I lived in Boston 8 years and never had a single conversation with anyone about UMass sports (other than when I went to see X play at UMass in front of tiny crowds). The UMass grads I tried to talk to about it weren't interested. They wanted to talk Pats or Celtics that time of year.

I went to a UMass/Holy Cross game in Worcester (the Centrum) that was attended by dozens. There's just not much interest there.

[waggy]

If UConn and Louisville land somewhere, one would have to think that WVU would also be gone --- probably to the Big 12 or SEC (if they can swing an invite).

At that point (if it happens), what possible reason would the Big East's BB members have for wanting to have a hybrid Conference to appease South Florida, Rutgers, and UC? Would you want a Basketball Conference with those three plus East Carolina, Central Florida, and God knows who else ---- or one with the likes of Xavier, Butler, UD, Richmond, and St. Louis?

Personally I like the latter. But I'm an X fan, and I think that makes a very big difference.

[waggy]

Zombies don't die easy. Just sayin'.

I hope X ends up in the best Bball conference with like minded institutions reaching good markets, but I'm not assuming anything until I see happen.

[X-band '01]

Listen, I live in Cincinnati and don't enjoy the watering down of my own backyard football program, but facts are facts. And the fact is, the Big East probably didn't deserve a BCS bid at full strength -- and the Big East definitely won't deserve a BCS bid next year, barring something crazy like Notre Dame (or Texas) joining.


That's awfully rich of Doyel considering that UC is only in its 7th season of BCS existence in the Big East. Let's not act like they're a staple in college football.

I'll give the Cats credit for striking when the iron was hot in Clifton, but their 2 titles aren't exactly much of a plus as far as the Big X seems to think at this point (at least publicly).

[danaandvictory]

At that point (if it happens), what possible reason would the Big East's BB members have for wanting to have a hybrid Conference to appease South Florida, Rutgers, and UC? Would you want a Basketball Conference with those three plus East Carolina, Central Florida, and God knows who else ---- or one with the likes of Xavier, Butler, UD, Richmond, and St. Louis?

Because the football members might cut them in on football money in order to keep their non-football sports associated with the Big East brand, and even a small sliver of that pie is a gamechanger.

[LA Muskie]

Because the football members might cut them in on football money in order to keep their non-football sports associated with the Big East brand, and even a small sliver of that pie is a gamechanger.
Exactly. I think the problem is that everyone is thinking about the old paradigm (no sharing of football revenue) and assuming that will remain the same. The game has changed.

[danaandvictory]

Exactly. I think the problem is that everyone is thinking about the old paradigm (no sharing of football revenue) and assuming that will remain the same. The game has changed.

No doubt. The remaining BE FB schools (well, at least UC, UofL, USF and WV) are desperate to save the BE football conference but they know damn well that if they keep the FB conference alive but in the process lose the basketball members that they are screwed from a PR perspective. At that stage the BE FB conference is a glorified Conference USA and loses its attractiveness to the East Coast media.

So what do they do? Well, the rump football schools slice off a piece of the football TV revenue pie and throw it to the BB schools as a bone for accepting a couple of horrible basketball schools in UCF and ECU in addition to Temple. The BB schools could very well roll with it because although the league is a little watered down, they are seeing a lucrative new stream of revenue.

[paulxu]

That makes sense to share the football revenue to hold the conference together, especially if you keep BCS status.
But it may not be their decision to make. The Big 12, with our without Mizzou, needs to get to 12 and have a conference championship. They're going to keep adding, and some of the BE teams might be who they add. Surely the BE basketball presidents understand this.

[Butterfly]

No doubt. The remaining BE FB schools (well, at least UC, UofL, USF and WV) are desperate to save the BE football conference but they know damn well that if they keep the FB conference alive but in the process lose the basketball members that they are screwed from a PR perspective. At that stage the BE FB conference is a glorified Conference USA and loses its attractiveness to the East Coast media.


PR is not the bottom line.
West Virginia is the opposite of desperate to save the Big East, Oliver Luck stormed out of the Big East meeting without voting on anything. They have been quite vocal about leaving.
Louisville has a good tv market, great facilities and decent research money, Cincinnati has average facilities, a good tv market and a higher amount of research money, West Virginia has good facilities and that's pretty much it.
USF is in a crowded market and one that's already heavily poached by pro teams.
I think WVU and USF are likely to get boned, but I doubt either are happy about the conference or looking to build it up.

[Butterfly]

If UConn and Louisville land somewhere, one would have to think that WVU would also be gone --- probably to the Big 12 or SEC (if they can swing an invite).

At that point (if it happens), what possible reason would the Big East's BB members have for wanting to have a hybrid Conference to appease South Florida, Rutgers, and UC? Would you want a Basketball Conference with those three plus East Carolina, Central Florida, and God knows who else ---- or one with the likes of Xavier, Butler, UD, Richmond, and St. Louis?

UConn isn't going to land anywhere. I don't know why anyone would think they have appeal at this point.

Honestly, I watched Rutgers only a couple times last year and I'd much rather watch them than UD or the Bilikens. Both are those teams are garbage. I think succeeding in the A-10 and playing a regular Big East season in basketball are two completely different things and I really don't think Richmond or Butler, given who they are losing are going to be comparable to where they were any time soon.
That said, no one wants to watch ECU or UCF.
Wouldn't mind seeing Temple and Xavier in the league, only on the condition we kick Providence and Depaul out.

[SM#24]

Wouldn't mind seeing Temple and Xavier in the league, only on the condition we kick Providence and Depaul out.

I don't think Temple or Xavier are in any position to make conditions.

To mimic Jim Rome, I see the scenario like this:

John Marinatto: "Hi Mike, this John Marina.."
Mike Bobinski: "YES"

[xubrew]

That would be the BCS Agreement, based on conferences being evaluated against certain performance criteria. The BE can't afford any more hits - it may be too late now anyway - given the teams being targeted and how they would grade out agains the criteria. They were discussing this specific issue earlier this evening on the ESPN college football show.

What does that even mean?? It's an agreement, or an arrangement, or whatever it is that sounds good on the surface, but really doesn't state anything specific.

"Conferences being evaulated agaisnt certain performance criteria." What criteria, and who evaluates them??

I realize that I'm a cynic by nature, but am I the only one who wouldn't be surprised if a ridiculous justification is produced that allows the Big East to keep its bid?? That explanation strikes me as being intentionally unspecific. If you're not specific, then there is no specific standard that they have to meet in order to keep their bid.

[xavierj]

No doubt. The remaining BE FB schools (well, at least UC, UofL, USF and WV) are desperate to save the BE football conference but they know damn well that if they keep the FB conference alive but in the process lose the basketball members that they are screwed from a PR perspective. At that stage the BE FB conference is a glorified Conference USA and loses its attractiveness to the East Coast media.

So what do they do? Well, the rump football schools slice off a piece of the football TV revenue pie and throw it to the BB schools as a bone for accepting a couple of horrible basketball schools in UCF and ECU in addition to Temple. The BB schools could very well roll with it because although the league is a little watered down, they are seeing a lucrative new stream of revenue.

Listening to Louisville radio sports talk this week gives me the impression that Louisville wants to be in the Big 12 and not the Big East. I think the same can be said for WVU. I think when all is said and done Louisville will go to the Big East, UCONN to the ACC and WVU will go to the SEC. UC and Rutgers to CUSA.

[anXUfan]

What does that even mean?? It's an agreement, or an arrangement, or whatever it is that sounds good on the surface, but really doesn't state anything specific.

"Conferences being evaulated agaisnt certain performance criteria." What criteria, and who evaluates them??

I realize that I'm a cynic by nature, but am I the only one who wouldn't be surprised if a ridiculous justification is produced that allows the Big East to keep its bid?? That explanation strikes me as being intentionally unspecific. If you're not specific, then there is no specific standard that they have to meet in order to keep their bid.

You're not the only one.

[danaandvictory]

Listening to Louisville radio sports talk this week gives me the impression that Louisville wants to be in the Big 12 and not the Big East.

Not a particularly credible source, but your conclusion could be right.

What fans want is irrelevant. The school presidents and the moneymen are driving these decisions.

[waggy]

I read a comment somewhere that if Mizzou stays in the Big12, that the conference would stay at 10. But if they lose Mizzou, then they would go to 12. Who knows if this is credible, but if so, would it be because of the market value of Mizzou compared to its replacement(s)? Ie, 1 Mizzou = 2 BE teams?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Sick of the Big East Zombie.

But I'm glad to see the NY Post, Times, and other big time papers are rallying around the league returning to an all basketball conference. There's always hope

[waggy]

Sick of the Big East Zombie.

But I'm glad to see the NY Post, Times, and other big time papers are rallying around the league returning to an all basketball conference. There's always hope

I visited a Hoya's board and those guys predominately view the "cyo" conference as a last resort. According to a number of posts, JTIII and the other leadership view it in a similiar manner.

[paulxu]

Mike Bobinski for BE Commissioner.

[Aughnanure]

Wouldn't mind seeing Temple and Xavier in the league, only on the condition we kick Providence and Depaul out.

HA! The BEAST is not kicking out the school that CREATED it! Wow, and no DePaul has too much potential in Chicago w/ Marquette - did you know DePaul has 25,000 students, 16,000 undergrads? I didn't.

[bobbiemcgee]

Mike Bobinski for BE Commissioner.

http://www.csnchicago.com/10/06/11/TCUs-move-adds-uncertainty-with-Irish-Bi/landing.html?blockID=573468&feedID=661

ND key to new BE BB - let's get 'er done!:logo:

[waggy]

Not a particularly credible source, but your conclusion could be right.

Funny dynamic, but if you're a program not already BCS affiliated your clamoring to get into the BE, while the current members are all trying to get the hell out.

I read on one site that programs switching conference don't only pay an exit fee, but they have to pay an entrance fee too. I hope Mizzou knows of a good lubricant, and has an abundant supply.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/big_east_hoops_schools_need_divorce_LC9C28lBjrBu0W R0pzJmgP

[MCXU]

Hey y'all, its after midnight and I'm hammered and posting stuff on the internet while the wife watches Jersey Shore. I swear these people are stupid as Fu%k.

Currently the Snookie is on the phone with her boyfriend in America and they just broke up because she slept with "The Situation". I'm devistated.

Anyway, I've been following this thread since it started because I really believe this is important to our Muskies future.

Please do not misinterpret what I am saying here because I do appreciate the updates that all of my fellow posters are giving me. I really do read this stuff, I think this is important and relevant to what is going on in the college basketball world.

I do however want to post the following.

I am so Fuc%king pumped about the upcoming season. I will not allow the landscape of the NCAA distract me from the fact that our Musketeers are getting ready to begin possibly the greatest season in the history of X basketball. We have been building to this season for my entire lifetime, if not longer.

Please, I know if you are reading this site you are a true fan like me. Lets appreciate this season for what it is. The conference situation will play itself out and there is nothing we can do about it. I have complete faith in Bobinski and Co. and so should you. Lets enjoy the s&it out of this season, we know what it means to be truly invested in our team.

I will see you all in New Orleans.

MCXU

[Xavier]

What the.

[paulxu]

What the.

Funny things happen when you're hammered and watching a Snookie Situation.
You may end up in the wrong thread.

[muskienick]

Zombies don't die easy. Just sayin'.

I hope X ends up in the best Bball conference with like minded institutions reaching good markets, but I'm not assuming anything until I see happen.

Agreed!

[DC Muskie]

did you know DePaul has 25,000 students, 16,000 undergrads? I didn't.

Did you know GW has 24,000 students, 10,000 undergrads?

I did.

[DC Muskie]

Zombies don't die easy. Just sayin'.

No they don't. They end up trying to "occupy" Wall Street.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Air Force preparing move to the Big East

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19073868

[BlueX]

Air Force preparing move to the Big East

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19073868

That's a ringing endorsement for the Big East. Yeah we'll join because your football teams blow.

[waggy]

Air Force preparing move to the Big East

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19073868

That guy just hates how all the greed, but he's all in. Oh, and he's very sorry.

And he can't compete in the B12, but it'll be no problem in the zombie. Ha ha ha.

The zombie is now just a whore. The zombie conference of hoes. Service academy football is marginal at best. Not saying it can't be entertaining, but generally no one cares.

Interesting that story comes out of South Bend.

[GoMuskies]

Interesting that story comes out of South Bend.

I believe AFA played ND yesterday.

[waggy]

I believe AFA played ND yesterday.

Yup.

If you're going to take a team from the MWC in the mountain time zone, why not Boise?

[GoMuskies]

Yup.

If you're going to take a team from the MWC in the mountain time zone, why not Boise?

Can't imagine Boise wants to jump into that hot mess right now.

[waggy]

Can't imagine Boise wants to jump into that hot mess right now.

Make take is the zombie hoes don't want to send 50% of the their BCS check to boise every year.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Can't imagine Boise wants to jump into that hot mess right now.


Yup.

If you're going to take a team from the MWC in the mountain time zone, why not Boise?

Interestingly enough, the Big East may be targeting Boise
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_ready.html

[waggy]

Interestingly enough, the Big East may be targeting Boise
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_ready.html

They're still a bunch of zombie hoes.

[xudash]

They're still a bunch of zombie hoes.

An entity from the State of Idaho involved in the BE. Pure desperation.

[GoMuskies]

They're still a bunch of zombie hoes.

All the other leagues are just hos.

[BMoreX]

Hofstra’s president, Stuart Rabinowitz, had reached out to Atlantic 10 members Charlotte, Richmond and George Washington, along with Boston University of the America East, to gauge informally their interest in joining the C.A.A., according to two people with knowledge of the talks.
...
Although the C.A.A. is sending feelers to A-10 members and others, a different college official said that the Atlantic 10 had expressed informal interest in adding C.A.A. members George Mason and Virginia Commonwealth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=2&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nyt%2Frss%2FSports+%28NYT+%3E +Sports%29&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimessports

[waggy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=2&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nyt%2Frss%2FSports+%28NYT+%3E +Sports%29&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimessports

Well either the BC AD or the ACC "spokesperson" is lying.

[bleedXblue]

I hope the A-10 is being proactive in recruting potential new members.

They have to be expecting the "potentail Big East invite" for Temple and X should the Big East lose another member.

[xubrew]

Can't imagine Boise wants to jump into that hot mess right now.

It may not be the worst idea in the world for Boise to explore going back to the WAC all other sprots, and remaining indy in football. I know their biggest ball and chain now is a lack of quality competition.

Having said that, they're having a hell of a time filling four OOC games. It may be a nightmare trying to fill twelve.

On a similiar note, I think WVU could survive as a football indy. It wouldn't be ideal, but as a worst case scenario it isn't too bad. They could remain affiliated with the basketball schools and ND for all other sports, and just by indy in football. Hell, it may even allow them to restore old rivalries such as Penn State, Va Tech, Virginia, etc.

UC...not so much. I think they need to be in a conference of some sort.

[xubrew]

I hope the A-10 is being proactive in recruting potential new members.

They have to be expecting the "potentail Big East invite" for Temple and X should the Big East lose another member.

Given the choice, I'd like to get rid of some old members as well.

Unfortunately, the A10 doesn't have that choice.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A10 is in a battle with the CAA

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
CAA pres talking to GW, BU, UNC-CH and Richmond. A-10 looking at Mason and VCU. Realignment Panic 2.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=2&ref=sports

DanaandVictory may be right after all. The A10 may be a casualty

[GoMuskies]

A10 is in a battle with the CAA

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
CAA pres talking to GW, BU, UNC-CH and Richmond. A-10 looking at Mason and VCU. Realignment Panic 2.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=2&ref=sports

DanaandVictory may be right after all. The A10 may be a casualty

When I first read this, I wondered what role UNC Chapel Hill had to play in that sort of discussion. Then I got it.

[xubrew]

A10 is in a battle with the CAA

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
CAA pres talking to GW, BU, UNC-CH and Richmond. A-10 looking at Mason and VCU. Realignment Panic 2.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/sports/ncaafootball/conference-instability-is-filtering-down-to-the-next-level.html?_r=2&ref=sports

DanaandVictory may be right after all. The A10 may be a casualty

They can have GW and Charlotte. I'd rather have Mason and VCU anyway. Having said that, I'd almost rather have no one. If we lose Temple, GW and Charlotte and add Butler for a twelve team league, I'm good.

XU, UD, BU, SLU, Richmond, Duquesne - West

Saint Joe's, Rhody, La Salle, Fordham, Bona, UMass - East.

I prefer that to what we have now.

[BMoreX]

ESPNAndyKatz Andy Katz
Big East releases a statement that it is ready to look at a 12-team football model. Let the speculation begin.


I think you can kiss Temple goodbye. The Big East will need (at least) 6 more schools.

[xubrew]

I think you can kiss Temple goodbye. The Big East will need (at least) 6 more schools.

Maybe not. It's my understanding that they're looking at adding two full members and four affiliates.

The three service academies will likely be affiliates, with Air Force joining the WAC in all other sports. Boise may also be an affiliate. I would guess the three biggest for full members would be Temple, East Carolina and UCF. Obviously, Temple has a strong case, but I don't think it's a given that they'll be invited as full members.

Either way, I don't think it's a death blow to the Atlantic Ten. It's even less of a blow to Xavier as a program. It's a blow, but there are other strong candidates out there if the A10 were to look to replace them. Butler, VCU, Mason and Old Dominion all come to mind. Virginia Beach is a nice place.

[GoMuskies]

I can't see Army going to the Big East for football. They complained in the '90s and early '00s that they could not compete in C-USA, so I can't imagine trying to make a go in an even more difficult league (it's not the SEC, but it will be better than C-USA was).

[xubrew]

I can't see Army going to the Big East for football. They complained in the '90s and early '00s that they could not compete in C-USA, so I can't imagine trying to make a go in an even more difficult league (it's not the SEC, but it will be better than C-USA was).

I see your point.

Another way to look at it is that Army would have a hard time competing in any league, so with that in mind you might as well have a hard time competing in the same league as the other service academies.

I don't think they'll see it that way, but it is one way of looking at it.

The quality of football would suffer within the Big East, but if they inherit the Commander and Chief trophy, along with the Army v Navy game, they'll at least be ratcheting up the tradition element.

I don't know how this will play out, if at all, but if the league adds two full members, along with the service academies and Boise as affiliate members, they may actually survive and be reasonably healthy. They wouldn't be as strong as the other BCS conferences, but they'd clearly be stronger than any other non-BCS league, and they'd be adding an element of tradition. They would be replacing two mediocre programs (Syracuse, Pitt) and one strong program (TCU) with multiple mediocre programs who actually have rich traditiions, and one strong program in Boise. If they pull this off, they will live to see another day and keep their BCS bid.

[bleedXblue]

Big East is really grasping at straws right now.

NO ONE knows whats going to happen with Missouri and the SEC. Or will it be West Virgina and the SEC ? Any movement by either school will prompt a move or potential move for another top BE program to bolt.

Also, who says the basketball only schools won't make a move on their own ?

BE is simply trying to hold on for dear life right now.

I don't see it happening.......being able to keep everything intact.

[xavierj]

Big East is really grasping at straws right now.

NO ONE knows whats going to happen with Missouri and the SEC. Or will it be West Virgina and the SEC ? Any movement by either school will prompt a move or potential move for another top BE program to bolt.

Also, who says the basketball only schools won't make a move on their own ?

BE is simply trying to hold on for dear life right now.

I don't see it happening.......being able to keep everything intact.

Yeah I see no way Bosie would have any real interest in joining an east coast league for football. They should just go the independent route like ND and BYU for football.