Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[xudash]

The $200 million came from the 14 team PAC league. Are you that stupid? You must be.

It would not be increased then by just adding two more teams. Seriously, you can't be that dumb. Not all teams make sense to add. You don't add just to add. Damn your stupid!!

The $200 million for the Pac14 deal didn't come from that league. The $200 million Pac14 television contract was primarily structured by Disney network properties.

So you really are stupid enough to think that the PAC contract is a fixed value contract.

I didn't write anything about adding just to add. If the network partners run their models on select prospective program targets and the numbers work, the deal would be deemed accretive. If the network partners run their models on the same and the numbers don't work, then they'll most likely hold at 14, unless other criteria, which would have to be substantial, adjust their decision-making framework.

The fact that you don't understand this really makes you look stupid here. Otherwise, the way you attempt to make counterpoints - "You don't add just to add" - is juvenile.

Have you figured out yet that most of the posters in this thread aren't exactly on the same page with you? That doesn't bode well for you or your lame contributions.

"You don't add just to add." Wow. Did that thought give you chills when it fired into your brain?

[_LH]

Furthermore, there aren't two additional teams out there that WOW anyone to get to 16.

[bobbiemcgee]

The $200 million came from the 14 team PAC league. .



You are aware that Scott negotiated an expansion clause in the TV contract to provide for the new teams. So if it's 20 million a team for 14 and he adds two more good schools, they also get the 20 million. Depending on who the schools are, it could be a helluva lot more.

[_LH]

You are aware that Scott negotiated an expansion clause in the TV contract to provide for the new teams. So if it's 20 million a team for 14 and he adds two more good schools, they also get the 20 million. Depending on who the schools are, it could be a helluva lot more.

What schools? THAT's MY WHOLE POINT. Name them!!!

[xudash]

Dash,

You can't be that dumb. You just can't. The PAC 14 can get a $200 deal and they don't have to add more teams to get to 16 to get it.

You don't have to be more than 14. WOW!!

This is it for me responding to you. Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself. I noticed you're also soiling the Bilas thread. You don't know whether there are two other financially valuable teams out there or not. That is your opinion, and that's where you get yourself in trouble here.

The $200 million deal with the PAC14 is done. It's executed. It's $200 million for the 14. It is based on models that reflect a certain amount of estimated viewership and ratings that, when ran against the advertising values for its regions, translates to that contract value for those 14 team.

IF Larry Scott and his staff choose to fire the models back up with their TV account executives to see if TEAM X or TEAM Y or TEAM Z lead to a financially accretive outcome if assumed added - do you get it now you absolute clueless bastard - then they may decide to go to 16 teams, because they aren't going to add just to add (Captain Obvious Award for you).

How on God's green earth do you think they got to the $200 million figure to begin with? Seriously, do you think they just pulled that out of the air? Those questions are rhetorical. I'm finished with you.

[_LH]

This is it for me responding to you. Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself. I noticed you're also soiling the Bilas thread.

The $200 million deal with the PAC14 is done. It's executed. It's $200 million for the 14. It is based on models that reflect a certain amount of estimated viewership and ratings that, when ran against the advertising values for its regions, translates to that contract value for those 14 team.

IF Larry Scott and his staff choose to fire the models back up with their TV account executives to see if TEAM X or TEAM Y or TEAM Z lead to a financially accretive outcome if assumed added - do you get it now you absolute clueless bastard - then they may decide to go to 16 teams, because they aren't going to add just to add (Captain Obvious Award for you).

How on God's green earth do you think they got to the $200 million figure to begin with? Seriously, do you think they just pulled that out of the air? Those questions are rhetorical. I'm finished with you.
There are only 12 teams in the PAC and they don't need to get to 16. 14 would be just fine. The SEC could easily stop at 14, same with the B10.

[xubrew]

I'm actually of the thought that conferences aren't really adding much by expanding.

Having said that, a team that makes financial sense is Hawaii. I'm not saying they'll get a serious look. They probably won't, but they would be an asset in terms of revenue.

It would allow for a 13th football game in the years the conference teams travel out there. More games means more TV more money. That's something no other program can offer.

[bearcat65]

I thought the SEC didn't want more than one program in a US state? If so, no FSU, no Texas Tech.

The ACC would be able to raid the BE if they lose a team or two and be just fine.

The ACC's ability to raid the BE depends on which teams they would lose. If in the unlikely event they lose Virginia Tech and Florida State they would not be an attractive option for Big East teams especially given the current situation at Miami.
If the SEC doesn't want another team in a state currently occupied by an SEC member then Missouri seems a very likely option provided they don't have any assurance from the Big 10 that they will be added in the future. Given the currentl situation in the Big12 I would think Missouri would gladly take accept an invitation to the SEC and stability that would come with it.

[_LH]

The ACC's ability to raid the BE depends on which teams they would lose. If in the unlikely event they lose Virginia Tech and Florida State they would not be an attractive option for Big East teams especially given the current situation at Miami.
If the SEC doesn't want another team in a state currently occupied by an SEC member then Missouri seems a very likely option provided they don't have any assurance from the Big 10 that they will be added in the future. Given the currentl situation in the Big12 I would think Missouri would gladly take accept an invitation to the SEC and stability that would come with it.

There are at least 6 BE teams that would jump at the chance to join the ACC if they ACC comes calling, with or without V-Tech but like you said, V-Tech is probably not going anywhere and the SEC is not interested in FSU.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

One more move and Big 12 is over
Kirk Bohls, Commentary

Your move, Oklahoma.

Go ahead, Sooners. Make the last move that sinks the Big 12.

And it is quite possible, in light of Texas A&M's defection, that your move will be one that politically astute Texas quietly supports while also hoping that it happens quickly. The Longhorns would dearly love the Sooners to take the lead. And much of the heat that comes with it.

Should Oklahoma act upon its earnest desires and seek an invitation to join the Pacific-12 Conference — something I'm fully expecting to happen within days, if not hours — that decision could well be the killing blow to the Big 12 while also providing Texas the political cover to follow suit and ask for admission as well.

The Pac-12's not going to ask first. It's been down that road before, led along until the eleventh hour a year ago.

If OU gives notice that it is leaving the Big 12 — or if any of the other remaining eight members do, for that matter — the very foundation of the league would crumble.

Here's what I think will happen, probably before the calendar turns to October:

Your new Pac-16 members: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

The era of the super conference begins.

The Longhorn Network gets folded into the Pac-16 as a downsized regional network, joining the six regional networks that already exist within the conference.

Missouri ends up in the Big Ten or ACC, and Kansas heads to the Big East. If for some inexplicable reason Texas chooses not to pursue Pac-12 membership, look for Texas Tech to be left out and expect the Pac-12 to focus on Kansas and Missouri along with OU and OSU. Don't dawdle, Texas.

In the end, these Big 12 schools should have gone their separate ways last summer and avoided all this unnecessary drama and hand-wringing. Every school has its own agenda and is ready to act upon it. If A&M can uproot itself from historical ties in the Big 12 and extricate itself from centuries-old rivalries, nothing is sacred.

OU wants to be more assertive and wants to blaze its own trail — separately or aligned with Texas — and will pull the trigger on the relocation it considered last June. Oklahoma State is along for the ride.

Once it became obvious the Aggies were leaving for the SEC, Texas wanted to remain in a 10-team Big 12 with Notre Dame, but the Longhorns must make other plans as the Irish cling firmly to their independence. Maybe the Big 12 could survive with BYU, Pitt and, say, Louisville, and it says here the league would need to add three teams to avoid looking vulnerable to a single school holding the conference's future hostage every year.

But I think Texas would prefer the Pac-Large and would do cartwheels if OU made the first dramatic move, so the Longhorns' hands would be politically clean.

Texas president William Powers embraced the idea of rubbing elbows with academic elites in the Pac-10 a year ago, but he was persuaded to stay put by athletic director DeLoss Dodds.

Once Notre Dame turned down the Big 12, the list of attractive replacements for A&M fell off dramatically.

BYU remains a possibility, but its use of older, more mature athletes because of two-year mission trips, its refusal to play on Sundays and its lack of an impeccable academic pedigree make it a harder sell.

Houston makes sense for the state and links up with legislators' desires to create another top-tier research institution, but Texas and Texas Tech would prefer to keep that rich recruiting base to themselves.

Pittsburgh makes little geographic sense but would greatly expand the Big 12's footprint. But so would the University of British Columbia, and I haven't seen them on the list.

Because the Big 12's options are few, its future is tenuous at best. No one seems to trust anyone any more. Everybody is jealous of Texas' clout and tired of its flaunting of the Longhorn Network. Most of the Big 12 schools are petrified they'll be left out. With good reason.

Every Big 12 school will have Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott on speed-dial and will beg the Pac-12 to embrace it as a member. Scott issued a statement Wednesday, saying his league has "no plans to expand" at this time, but added that his schools will listen to and evaluate any scenario. Scott has openly predicted more realignment will occur in college athletics in the near future.

OU clearly wanted to bolt to the Pac-10 a year ago and take Oklahoma State with it. That hasn't changed. The OU administration warmly embraced the idea. Bob Stoops was ready to take the field at the Rose Bowl for the league's first championship game.

He openly lusted over all those California recruits.

Texas and Texas Tech were this close to joining them before a political wrench and the Longhorn Network brought those plans to a halt.

It was a done deal until it was undone at the last moment.

Fifteen months later, OU will take the lead.

"Oklahoma owns all the cards," a Big 12 source told me.

Look for the Pac-12 and interested Big 12 parties to use the same script as A&M did in plotting its exit from the Big 12. Nobody wants to be the instigator in these delicate, sensitive negotiations, and no one wants to be the villain. Expect them all to paint the Aggies with that broad brush.

And once OU and Texas make that clear, then it will be every man for himself.

kbohls@statesman.com; 445-3772

http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns/one-more-move-and-big-12-is-over-1809134.html?cxtype=rss_longhorns&viewAsSinglePage=true

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So teams are leaving the B12 to get away from Texas and then they would turn around and invite Texas to their new conference? I don't buy it.

This has been covered. For Texas the options are

A) Keep the LHN as is and carry the risk of not being able to join any conference because of it(Independent)
B) Re-negotiate the LHN or get rid of it all together in order to join a conference

From what everyone is saying, Texas does not want to go independent unless its a last resort. That would force them to act on option B

[_LH]

This has been covered. For Texas the options are

A) Keep the LHN as is and carry the risk of not being able to join any conference because of it(Independent)
B) Re-negotiate the LHN or get rid of it all together in order to join a conference

From what everyone is saying, Texas does not want to go independent unless its a last resort. That would force them to act on option B

It has not been covered.

c.) Re-negotiate the LHN and stay in the B12 with OU and OSU. Bring in BYU, TCU, WVU and Lousiville.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It has not been covered.

c.) Re-negotiate the LHN and stay in the B12 with OU and OSU. Bring in BYU, TCU, WVU and Lousiville.

Gonna be tough to stay in the B12 when everyone is saying OU and OSU want out Genghis

[_LH]

On a side note, if KU and KSU actually join the BE and the ACC, B10 and SEC go to 16 teams, XU will never be in a bball only league with G-Town and Villanova.

[LA Muskie]

Not everyone is saying it, including OU.

Maybe not OU. But OU's influential football coach is saying it.

[LA Muskie]

So teams are leaving the B12 to get away from Texas and then they would turn around and invite Texas to their new conference? I don't buy it.

They don't want to get away from Texas. They want to get away from LHN. If Texas goes Pac16, it won't be with the LHN in it's current state.

[_LH]

They don't want to get away from Texas. They want to get away from LHN. If Texas goes Pac16, it won't be with the LHN in it's current state.

Why would Texas give up the LHN? If they can change in order to be in a conference, why not change it now and save everyone all this trouble?

[LA Muskie]

It has not been covered.

c.) Re-negotiate the LHN and stay in the B12 with OU and OSU. Bring in BYU, TCU, WVU and Lousiville.

If it has to renegotiate the LHN deal, I imagine Texas would prefer joining the Pac16 with OU (and their respective tagalongs).

[_LH]

If it has to renegotiate the LHN deal, I imagine Texas would prefer joining the Pac16 with OU (and their respective tagalongs).

How many of the PAC 16 would be former B12 members? Why not just renegotiate it and keep the B12 alive?

[LA Muskie]

Which means nothing.

I suspect a few million OU fans would disagree. Which means the AD and President are probably at least listening.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If it has to renegotiate the LHN deal, I imagine Texas would prefer joining the Pac16 with OU (and their respective tagalongs).

Bingo.

Like I said earlier, _LH, Texas does not want to go independent(unless its a last resort)

[LA Muskie]

Why would Texas give up the LHN? If they can change in order to be in a conference, why not change it now and save everyone all this trouble?

They may perceive enough upside in a Pac16 to compensate for the loss of the LHN riches. And institutionally, they'd almost certainly prefer to be associated with those schools. This is a money matter first and foremost, but remember these decisions are largely made by presidents who have egos that are tied to more than just athletics.

[_LH]

I suspect a few million OU fans would disagree. Which means the AD and President are probably at least listening.

Doubtful. He is a coach and nothing more.

[LA Muskie]

How many of the PAC 16 would be former B12 members? Why not just renegotiate it and keep the B12 alive?

With winds blowing in the direction of 14-16, rebuilding to just 10-12 is just a bandaid. And with the lack of quality, geographically desirable options, it would leave them vulnerable moving forward.

[_LH]

Bingo.

Like I said earlier, _LH, Texas does not want to go independent(unless its a last resort)

And they don't have to by staying in the B12.

[_LH]

With winds blowing in the direction of 14-16, rebuilding to just 10-12 is just a bandaid. And with the lack of quality, geographically desirable options, it would leave them vulnerable moving forward.

As we have discussed it does not make much sense for any conference to be bigger than 14 teams as there are just not enough quality teams to get 4 conferences to 16 teams. 14..yes, 16 no. The B12 could be the 5th best football conference even if the PAC, SEC, ACC and B10 go to 14 teams.

[LA Muskie]

Doubtful. He is a coach and nothing more.

As you've pointed out, football is king in all of this. You doubt that Stoops has a seat at the table at OU? It may not be his decision, but I can't imagine his opinion isn't solicited. And there's a reason he's already campaigning...

[chico]

I have a favor to ask. Could those of you responding to _-LH please try to not quote him in your posts. Those of us who have chosen to put him on ignore wold greatly appreciate it.

[_LH]

As you've pointed out, football is king in all of this. You doubt that Stoops has a seat at the table at OU? It may not be his decision, but I can't imagine his opinion isn't solicited. And there's a reason he's already campaigning...

His opinion is very minor, very.

[LA Muskie]

As we have discussed it does not make much sense for any conference to be bigger than 14 teams as there are just not enough quality teams to get 4 conferences to 16 teams. 14..yes, 16 no. The B12 could be the 5th best football conference even if the PAC, SEC, ACC and B10 go to 14 teams.

Even at 14, Big 12 would have to add 4-6 schools (depending on what the OK schools do). That's essentially forming a brand new conference. In the span of 10 months. With few quality options to add.

[_LH]

Even at 14, Big 12 would have to add 4-6 schools (depending on what the OK schools do). That's essentially forming a brand new conference. In the span of 10 months. With few quality options to add.

You are assuming that this is going to take place rather quickly. It won't.

[Xavier]

The B12 could be the 5th best football conference even if the PAC, SEC, ACC and B10 go to 14 teams.

Exactly. Thats why teams would want to go to the Pac- better conference, better revenue. Also, you have been tossing around the idea of TCU to the big 12 (which would be much better for them, IMO) this has to be years away, though- not sure how tough it would be to get out of the BE after just joining.

[LA Muskie]

You are assuming that this is going to take place rather quickly. It won't.

Well as of now the Big 12 will be at 9 schools within 10 months. And the Pac12 is not going to sit idly by. They will be proactive. I think things will move more quickly than you think. But I will agree that neither of us knows for sure.

[_LH]

Exactly. Thats why teams would want to go to the Pac- better conference, better revenue. Also, you have been tossing around the idea of TCU to the big 12 (which would be much better for them, IMO) this has to be years away, though- not sure how tough it would be to get out of the BE after just joining.

XU wants to join the BE but if you are not asked you can't just join them.

If the BE is raided by the ACC and B10 so both can get to 14 teams I can't imagine it would be too hard for TCU to join the B12.

Oh and Chico if you block my posts how do you receive any education on here?

[_LH]

Well as of now the Big 12 will be at 9 schools within 10 months. And the Pac12 is not going to sit idly by. They will be proactive. I think things will move more quickly than you think. But I will agree that neither of us knows for sure.

I believe the B12 can also be proactive and invite Louisville and WVU to join along with BYU to fill the void of A&M.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Does anyone have espn Insider. Apparently theres an article of Oklahoma actively seeking an invite from the pac 12.

Also, googletwitterverse is on fire with the Texas/Tech/Oklahoma/OSU to the Pac 12 rumors

[GoMuskies]

Xavier could not be more well positioned for this Armageddon. Thanks Mike B. (and Fr. Hoff, and Fr. Graham, and Bob, Pete, Skip, Thad, Sean and Chris).

[_LH]

Xavier could not be more well positioned for this Armageddon. Thanks Mike B. (and Fr. Hoff, and Fr. Graham, and Bob, Pete, Skip, Thad, Sean and Chris).

Only if the BE splits. Not sure that will happen. I hope it does.

[xubrew]

-If Texas were to join the Big Ten or Pac Twelve, they would like keep the Longhorn Network. The set up would be that they would not share revenue with the LHN with the rest of the conference, while at the same time not receive any revenue sharing from the rest of the league's deal.

The Pac Ten and Big Ten are with Fox and already have a deal in place. The LHN is with ESPN. Texas will get ESPN revenue. The other league members will share the remainder of the deal.

The reason this will not work in the Big Twelve is that the structure of their deal is different. They can treat the LHN like the Big Twelve Network, whereas Texas gets everything and the rest get nothing.

Havnig said that, I don't think Texas will go to the Pac Twelve. They might. It certainly isn't impossible. I just don't think they will.

Louisville and Cincinnati probably won't leave the Big East for the Big Twelve. I just don't see them wanting to leave what they've got to join up with a league where all the key players are trying to get away from. They're also tier four institutions, which seems to carry a lot of weight.

Lastly, I agree with LH's point regarding sixteen teams. I don't see what a conference can do for its members and itself as a whole with sixteen teams that it can't do with fourteen, or twelve, or nine. Sixteen teams conferences will create two divisions of eight, with division having it's own identity, and possibly developing it's own revenue sharing (POSSIBLY). I know it isn't quite the same, but when the WAC swelled out to sixteen teams, we really had two divisions of eight, that became two conferences of eight.

It didn't accomplish much. I don't think the ACC is any better off now than they were with nine teams. I don't think the Big East is any better off now in basketball than they were before. They're not worse off, but I don't think they're any better. If the SEC goes to 14 or 16, I don't think it will be any better or any stronger. Essentially, you'll have two divisions, and if anything some of the rivalry and tradition will probably disappear rather than be enhanced. I think eight or nine is all you need. If you have sixteen, it's more like having two leagues of eight teams anyway.

That's my take on the whole reallignment thing. We may be trending toward four superconferences, but to me it looks like we're trending more toward eight divisions.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Pac-12's Larry Scott: "We'll listen to and evaluate any scenario that would benefit our member institutions, our student-athletes and fans."

This commish is awesome

[_LH]

Brew,

I'd like to add that I don't see why the B12 would ever be interested in UC and the BE is not exactly on solid footing if the B10 and ACC look to expand to 14 or more team each.

[waggy]

Some of you have probably already read this, but for those who haven't..

BYU in talks with Big 12 in wake of Texas A&M’s exit (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/52495048-77/byu-conference-officials-football.html.csp)

Notre Dames involvement is interesting. No one except the BB schools wants to see the Big East to continue as a hybrid more than Notre Dame.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Message board forums are stating that a Dallas radio station said

'Texas is ready to announce a deal with the pac 12'

Unbelievable if true. Oklahoma, OSU, TT would follow allegedly

We'll see...Let the Rumors run wild!

[Xavier]

I have seen some rumors going around as part of the reason Pac wants to go to 16 is in hopes to get a 2nd automatic bid to the BCS.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Unsubstantiated, unverified, and possibly true or untrue Rumor Odds and Ends for 9/2/11:

@kbohls Texas AD DeLoss Dodds supports Big12 still but said of Pac-12 possibility: "You don't ever close any doors." #ut

Oklahoma scout board is saying Missouri plans to announce they will leave the Big 12 on Tuesday
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=146&f=2445&t=7845280&p=1

Aug. 31 article from Orangebloods(don't know if its free or not) "What's next for the Big 12"
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1258695

San Jose paper saying there has been preliminary talks between Texas and the Pac 12 but that any deal is far from certain at the moment
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/02/bcs-football-the-latest-on-realignment/

KU chancellor saying that Kansas/Kstate aren't required to stay in the same conference
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/9/1/2398760/kansas-k-state-conference-realignment-big-12

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
I'm told Texas and OU are still working to hold the Big 12 together and that reports of those schools and the Pac-12 would be premature.

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
One Big 12 administrator told Orangebloods.com Big 12 staying together has 70% chance; Pac-12 raiding B12 a 30% chance.

Will Oklahoma head to the Pac 12?
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/watch/2011/09/will-oklahoma-head-pac-12#.TmDbE3m2z10.twitter

[principal]

The president of OSU (OK, that is) says some pretty telling things in this article:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6923495/oklahoma-sooners-president-david-boren-says-school-interest-multiple-conferences

-Boren said the bottom line is "I don't think OU is going to be a wallflower when all is said and done."

-I don't know how long it will be before clarity comes to us. My experience is that on these kinds of things, it might be a matter of 72 hours, it might be a matter of two weeks. I don't really think this is something that is going to linger on beyond two or three weeks at the outside," Boren said.

So they are going to be proactive and the decision will be made quickly. I wouldn't think this bodes well for the Big 12.

What is the general consensus? If the Big 12 implodes what is most likely to happen? What gets us to a break up of the Big East and how likely is it? Would KU or KU/KSU to the Big East necessarily break up the Big East? If so, why? I know this has all been rehashed, but could someone go over it again now that OK looks fairly likely to be leaving the Big 12 - from which it seems to follow TX will also leaves, at which point the Big 12 is done. So assume the Big 12 ends, what is next?

principal

[JAPER]

What advantage is there for all the bcs schools to stay in the NCAA?

Seems like the big 12 is toast. A four x 16 ( or so) format is looking more and more like the future.

[principal]

MO did not misunderstand OSU's statements:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6925783/missouri-tigers-athletic-director-mike-alden-surprised-oklahoma-sooners-president-remarks

principal

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Source: OU, Texas talking Pac-16

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6927204/pac-16-oklahoma-sooners-texas-longhorns-being-discussed-source-says

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, and Missouri/tech very close to going to the pac 12

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-09-03/report-big-12s-oklahoma-texas-very-close-to-pac-12-move

@PeteThamelNYT: Berry Tramel reports Pac-12 has become Oklahoma's "sole focus." bit.ly/n0pyRb


richardjustice Richard Justice
@TravHaney: We're told an announcement is not imminent, but schools are in "details" phase with Pac-12. Texas slowly coming around.

[waggy]

Amazing times.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Amazing times.

Get ready. Its just beginning.

SEC, Big 10, Big East, ACC are waiting in line for the conference carousel

patsmithradio Pat Smith
The Oklahoman is reporting PAC 12 commish Larry Scott is finalizing Texas, OU, Okl St & Tx Tech to his conference- this weekend!

JRsBBQ Jim Ross
Sources say OU, Texas, OKla St & either Mizzou or Texas Tech to PAC 12 nx year. Stay tuned.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

slmandel Stewart Mandel
Larry Scott on latest rumors. "Schools have reached out to us. We are not doing anything proactively."

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Larry Scott wouldn't comment on the OK news. He did say, "Schools have reached out to us. Schools have called us."

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
Larry Scott: "I expect that you will see further consolidation given the fragmentation of college sports.”

espn4d Pat Forde
Pac-12 (16?) commish Larry Scott just talked with media in press box at LSU-Oregon. Sounded like a guy with all the chips in his corner.

Pete ThamelNYT

Larry Scott on Longhorn Network meshing with Pac-12: "We have a structure and contracts with partners for a network model that includes a national network and a regional network under the Pac-12 umbrella. So we actually couldn’t do anything outside of that. We’re wedded to that model. All of our schools are part of our regional and national network.”

DanWetzel Dan Wetzel
You want to play poker with P12 commish Larry Scott. He's walking around looking like a guy who was dealt a straight flush

[GuyFawkes38]

Right now the Pac12 is divided into 2 divisions:

North: Oregon, Oregon st., Washington, Washington St, California, Stanford
South: UCLA, USC, Arizona, Arizona St., Colorado, Utah

The situation is a little awkward, having the California schools divided (by rule, the California schools all play each other once a year, regardless of being in different divisions....but it's far from ideal).

Adding Texas, Oklahoma, OK st., and some other school would allow the conference to move UCLA and USC with the California schools, which is a much more natural fit.

The eastern part of the conference would look a lot like the old SWAC conference (Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Arizona St., Utah, Colorado, Ok st.).

It all sort of works. And it would be balanced. It's a shame that Texas and TAMU aren't in the same conference. But the above setup wouldn't be terrible for college football. It has a natural feel to it. At the very least, we'll get one hell of a conference championship game out of it.

It still feels a little awkward. I think it would make more sense for Texas to play Rice, Baylor, and Houston than Washington, Washington State, and Cal.

But the divisions do keep the regional rivalries somewhat intact.

I'm not sure what will happen to Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St, Missouri (but here's a clue: http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/statuses/110561896045879296). But lets face it. From a football perspective, who cares. I won't be heartbroken to have less Kansas and Iowa St. games on TV.

There's a lot of anger at Texas. But at the end of the day, they subsidized a lot of crappy teams in the Big12 and were sick of the situation. I don't blame them.

I'm surprised OSU or USC don't do the same thing. OSU can't be thrilled with allowing Northwestern to have an equal chunk of the TV revenue.

[Nocalmuskie]

Scenarios all over the map now, including Orangebloads.com floating Texas, UCONN, Cuse to ACC ... which would set in motion major Big East moves...possibly including Xavier????

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1261031

[Juice]

Scenarios all over the map now, including Orangebloads.com floating Texas, UCONN, Cuse to ACC ... which would set in motion major Big East moves...possibly including Xavier????

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1261031

When did Xavier get a football team? The Big East isn't picking up any schools unless they have football.

[Nocalmuskie]

When did Xavier get a football team? The Big East isn't picking up any schools unless they have football.

you must not be aware of the basketball-only playing members of the Big East, which will want a balanced conference ... The idea was floated earlier today by ESPN's Doug Gotlieb of the Big East adding Xavier ...

No matter what -- The NCAA could very well be re-ordered in a MAJOR WAY ... which will have implications for EVERYBODY.

[SixFig]

I fear the worst. A Snipe-like apocalypse in which the four 16-team superconferences break away from the NCAA, leaving Xavier and everyone else in the dust. Why even play midmajors...just play each other and keep the profits.

Hopefully this new realignment affects primarily football only...but I doubt it

[Nocalmuskie]

This thread is too important NOT to be on the main page...

[waggy]

Please. The big east breaks up and you can start a 1000 posts on the main page.

[XUFan09]

This thread is too important NOT to be on the main page...

I'm now making post 594 in this thread. It's getting all the attention it needs on XH.

[Juice]

you must not be aware of the basketball-only playing members of the Big East, which will want a balanced conference ... The idea was floated earlier today by ESPN's Doug Gotlieb of the Big East adding Xavier ...

No matter what -- The NCAA could very well be re-ordered in a MAJOR WAY ... which will have implications for EVERYBODY.

But why would they replace football schools with Xavier? They would rather add someone like Memphis or UCF than Xavier.

Football is and always will drive the conferences. This Big East pipe dream of Xavier fans needs to be tempered.

[XUFan09]

But why would they replace football schools with Xavier? They would rather add someone like Memphis or UCF than Xavier.

Football is and always will drive the conferences. This Big East pipe dream of Xavier fans needs to be tempered.

If the football schools in the Big East break off from the non-football schools, the non-football schools will be looking for conference members who also focus on basketball and don't have a D1 football program. This is very plausible. The departure of the football schools from the Big East though would be Major Domino #3 or #4 in a conference shakeup. It remains to be seen whether major dominoes will fall though or if it will just be like last year, no big changes.

[Juice]

If the football schools in the Big East break off from the non-football schools, the non-football schools will be looking for conference members who also focus on basketball and don't have a D1 football program. This is very plausible. The departure of the football schools from the Big East though would be Major Domino #3 or #4 in a conference shakeup. It remains to be seen whether major dominoes will fall though or if it will just be like last year, no big changes.

But there hasn't been any talk of the Big East breaking up. The Big 12 will most likely break up and the SEC and ACC may steal some schools from the Big East, but the Big East can add many of the teams from Big 12 like Kansas.

[STL_XUfan]

Gary Pinkel on Big 12 instability: ‘We all know where it starts’

And, in Pinkel’s professional opinion, it starts in Austin, travels north on I-35 and ends in Irving.

Appearing on Tim Brando‘s radio show this morning, the Missouri head coach had some not-so-rosy comments about the current state of the Big 12. Earlier this week, Texas A&M officially followed the likes of Nebraska and Colorado, who left for the Big Ten and Pac-12 last summer, respectively, by notifying the conference that it would be withdrawing its membership. An invite to join the SEC is almost surely to follow.

You can listen to Pinkel’s whole interview HERE, but below is the money quote:

“Obviously, we have some issues in our league. When you have Nebraska leave one year. Colorado leaves. Also now Texas A&M. Three really good football teams. … You know, we’ve got some issues. Without question there’s some issues that other leagues don’t have. You don’t hear anything about any other league in the country having these kind of problems. We all know where it starts. Mike Alden’s not the point man here. Dan Beebe is. Dan Beebe’s our commissioner. He’s the guy to ask. I don’t know what they’re going to do. I’m just focusing now on winning the football game. … There’s just no one in the country, no other league in the country, where this stuff goes on. And it’s really a shame because the potential of the league is just so tremendous.

“Anyway, I have no control over it. We’re just trying to beat Miami (Ohio).”

Nice save.

But it’s pretty clear that Pinkel is voicing the displeasure that certainly most other — if not all — Big 12 members feel: that commissioner Dan Beebe catered to Texas’ desire to start the Longhorn Network last summer and the Big 12 is getting weaker by the year because of it.

Interestingly enough, Missouri athletic director Mike Alden, the man who claims Mizzou is committed to the Big 12, had this to say about the LHN:

“I think what it means for us, it means we have to continue to find ways to deliver our product.“

I agree; Texas is in no way at fault for starting the LHN. UT has developed their brand into arguably the strongest in college football. Finding ways to monetize it* is called capitalism**.

(*note: although, in fairness, maybe the LHN should pick up some major carriers first…)

(**note: keeping the profits from the players who help bring it in is the greedy part, but that’s another topic for another day)

Beebe made a choice last year to give UT what they wanted because the Big 12 is only as strong as Texas and Oklahoma want it to be. While a potential departure by Missouri would be another devastating blow, the Big 12 can survive as long as Texas and Oklahoma are members.

The conference won’t be as strong or as deep barring some seriously upgraded additions, but it can survive.

Even if the other members don’t like it.

(Big Thanks: Columbia Tribune)

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/02/gary-pinkel-on-big-12-instability-we-all-know-where-it-starts/

[SM#24]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6939017/texas-aggies-accepted-sec-legal-threat-delays-move

Another step in the process, SEC accepts TexA&M, but Baylor holding things up.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Baylor looks like they are not going to accept this quietly. The SEC accepted Texas AM on the condition that no Big 12 member would sue. Check out Baylor's website...

http://www.baylor.edu/nation/index.php?id=84714

Baylor is doing all it can to keep Big 12 together.

With the Oklahomas actively seeking the Pac 12, Kansas being pursued by the Big East, and Missouri being pursued by everyone, they may find themselves left out

With that said, I don't see the Texas legislature coming in to save Baylor

[GoMuskies]

Baylor is on a collision course with the MWC. The only variable is time.

Baylor also didn't mind fu%&ing Houston, TCU and Rice when the SWC imploded. SMU had alredy fu%&ed themselves at that point.

[xudash]

So where are we right now, in evaluating the rankings of these prospective Belles of the Ball:

Texas - looks and money and a nasty ass Bevo to ride in on. I put them above the line, so to speak, because, to the extent it is possible, they're in a position of not having to care. They go alone, with or without the Big12, or they go Pac16ing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oklahoma - the hottest chick going, hands down. There's a little bit of a twist for you, in that the BRAND is bigger than its television market; Oklahoma will deliver viewership when its on the field.

Texas Tech - would ride Bevo and the Sooners' stage coach straight into the Pac16.

Mizzou - normally wouldn't be this high, except that they may make sense to both the SEC and B1G.

Oklahoma State - see Texas Tech response.

The next level:

I think we have to shift towards the eastern end of the ballroom, where we find schools that may appeal to the ACC primarily - a mix of academic and athletic acceptability, knowing that the ACC will never catch the SEC anyway. I also put these schools here, because, probably save for UConn, the B1G may find them appealing - AAU and athletics are very much at stake when it comes to B1G expansion:

Pitt
Syracuse
Rutgers
UConn

The next level - have a few beers before asking one of them to the dance floor - "what the f%$k happened; I guess I haven't looked in the mirror lately":

Kansas
Kansas State
WVU
UC
L'ville
Baylor
Iowa State

I'm assuming BYU has every intention of remaining independent. I didn't factor Boise St. into this, though they could land somewhere. They've earned that right on the field, if not in the classroom.

If all this actually goes to 4x16, these schools will find a dance partner. If they fall short of the 16 configuration, a 5th conference opens up mostly comprised of BE and Big 12 also rans. The issue is whether the power elite are going for 4 super conferences for play-off and money purposes, or not.

Otherwise, the wildcards remain the same: political pressure; who moves first and what is left behind to move on next, etc.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Baylor has officially backed off the lawsuit according to aggieyell.com. A&M will be in the SEC west next year. Who joins them is the question. Will it be VT, WV, or Missouri? Will they add 3 more?

Also the pac 12 is expected to make their expansion announcement next week with many people saying it will be the Oklahomas. Will Texas and TT join them?

The Big East has been in talks with Kansas. Are Kansas and KSU a package deal?

Does the Big 10 make a push at Missouri and someone else?

Who will the ACC go after?

Does Syracuse, Uconn, UL, Pitt and others stay in the BE as Dash stated?

And Here We Go! (The Joker voice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk)

[xudash]

Baylor has officially backed off the lawsuit according to aggieyell.com. A&M will be in the SEC west next year. Who joins them is the question. Will it be VT, WV, or Missouri? Will they add 3 more?

Also the pac 12 is expected to make their expansion announcement next week with many people saying it will be the Oklahomas. Will Texas and TT join them?

The Big East has been in talks with Kansas. Are Kansas and KSU a package deal?

Does the Big 10 make a push at Missouri and someone else?

Who will the ACC go after?

Does Syracuse, Uconn, UL, Pitt and others stay in the BE as Dash stated?

And Here We Go! (The Joker voice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk)

JTT37, I actually see the better BE schools splitting up to go to either the ACC or B1G. They only stay in a modified BE if the BE can pull off a miracle at this point.

At the end of the day, this is primarily about money for the SEC, B1G and PacXX. It's about finding stability, then money for everyone else. The ACC has the all-sports structure, tradition and relative stability that the BE lacks; the ACC obviously was the raider of the lost BE before, they can do that again. So I believe this is the ACC and John Swofford's deal to lose at this point.

[GoMuskies]

I still can't believe you think Rutgers is one of the "better" BE schools.

[_LH]

Baylor has officially backed off the lawsuit according to aggieyell.com. A&M will be in the SEC west next year. Who joins them is the question. Will it be VT, WV, or Missouri? Will they add 3 more?

Also the pac 12 is expected to make their expansion announcement next week with many people saying it will be the Oklahomas. Will Texas and TT join them?

The Big East has been in talks with Kansas. Are Kansas and KSU a package deal?

Does the Big 10 make a push at Missouri and someone else?

Who will the ACC go after?

Does Syracuse, Uconn, UL, Pitt and others stay in the BE as Dash stated?

And Here We Go! (The Joker voice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk)

If Texas does not or cannot join the Pac for some reason, does the PAC stay at 14 by adding the Oklahomas or do they look for two others just to get to 16?

If the PAC goes to 16, does the SEC have to go to 16 or can they be just as effective at 14? Same question for the B1G?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If Texas does not or cannot join the Pac for some reason, does the PAC stay at 14 by adding the Oklahomas or do they look for two others just to get to 16?

If the PAC goes to 16, does the SEC have to go to 16 or can they be just as effective at 14? Same question for the B1G?

Your guess is as good as mine...No one knows for sure. I have heard that the Pac 12 will take just the Oklahomas without Texas if they have to(of course no one wants TT but thats just a package deal supposedly)

I think we are going to see a free for all pretty soon. Whether the BCS conferences get to 14 or 16 is anyones guess

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

JTT37, I actually see the better BE schools splitting up to go to either the ACC or B1G. They only stay in a modified BE if the BE can pull off a miracle at this point.

At the end of the day, this is primarily about money for the SEC, B1G and PacXX. It's about finding stability, then money for everyone else. The ACC has the all-sports structure, tradition and relative stability that the BE lacks; the ACC obviously was the raider of the lost BE before, they can do that again. So I believe this is the ACC and John Swofford's deal to lose at this point.

I wouldn't mind seeing that at all....You're right. The ACC is not sit idly by.

UC might have picked the worst possible timing not to have an AD.

[GoMuskies]

Jimmy, please remember your pledge. Thank you.

[MuskieCinci]

I hate all this conference realignment BS and how obviously money driven it all is. I wish it was a law somewhere that conferences should focus as much as possible as having similar institutions within good geographical distance from one another and every conference must be 9 teams. Seriously, isn't 9 teams the perfect amount? In football you can play every other school once with an even 4 home games and 4 away games rotating each year back and forth. With basketball you can play each school home and home with no one complaining about unbalanced schedules and never having to bitch about 'pods'. The bottom two teams can then play each other for the right to go to the conference tournament or just don't invite the last place team. Does anyone else feel this way or does everyone else enjoy expansion?

[waggy]

I hope Baylor gets left out and has to go to the mnt west or cusa. I think that program is dirty, which is especially disappointing for a (supposed) faith based institution.

[Roach]

Here's one possibility for how things shake out:

1) To achieve an even number, the SEC will extend an invite to Missouri, which has both a good football and good basketball program and would be a natural geographic rival to Arkansas.

2) The SEC stops at 14 schools.

3) Texas opts not to join the Pac-12/16, given that it could (in the long run) severely complicate the Longhorn Network deal with ESPN and/or the Pac-12's deal with Fox Sports. Additionally, the Pac-12 commissioner apparently expressed some concern about some Big 12 schools which might not be a good fit for the conference's academic standard (i.e. Tech and Okie State). Without Texas and without Tech and Okie State, the Pac-12 won't invite Oklahoma. It would make no sense.

4) Scrambling to retain viability, the Big 12 invites Nevada, UNLV, Boise State, and TCU, and all accept, TCU having never participated in the Big East.

5) Not to be outdone, the Big 10 seeks further expansion, but because West Virginia and Pittsburgh don't match the "academic standards" of the Big 10, the conference invites Syracuse and UConn, both of whom accept invitations.

6) The Big 10 stops at 14 schools.

7) Also not to be outdone, the ACC invites West Virginia and Pittsburgh. Both accept.

8) The Big East implodes.

9) Rutgers, South Florida, Cincinnati, and Louisville are left in a pickle. In a scramble, they pluck Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida, and soon-to-be-1A Charlotte to form a crappy, Non-BCS league.

10) Then, the basketball dominos start falling. Let the speculation begin ...

This is just one possible scenario, but none of the above would surprise me ...

[XULucho27]

5) Not to be outdone, the Big 10 seeks further expansion, but because West Virginia and Pittsburgh don't match the "academic standards" of the Big 10, the conference invites Syracuse and UConn, both of whom accept invitations.

6) The Big 10 stops at 14 schools.



Is it just me or does it look like the Big10 is going to end up SOL if and when a massive realignment occurs. The most common names I hear thrown out with regards to the Big10 in the expansion are Pitt, UConn, and Syracuse. If this whole thing is about football, what does adding any of those schools really do for the Big10?

Sure, UConn was the Big East champ last year but would they really be able to sustain any sort of long term success not only on a conference level, but on a national level? Syracuse doesn't really do much of anything football-wise either for the Big10. Of course both would be great additions in basketball but this whole thing is about football, correct?

Pitt and WVU have what the Big10 needs in decent to solid (varies from year to year) football and very good basketball programs but, as you correctly stated, many speculate that they wouldn't meet the academic requirements for acceptance into the Big10.

I also hear Rutgers being thrown out there, but they provide absolutely nothing in terms of football. They've been on a steady decline since their 11-2 season and are fresh off a 4-8 season last year. I understand that they provide access to the New York/New Jersey market but, they kinda stink. What good is it having a team in a market if they can't compete?

Which brings me to my point, or question, rather. What two teams WOULD make sense for the Big10? Missouri and Notre Dame keep getting thrown around but those, obviously, come with great complications (Notre Dame especially). I'm not as versed on this subject and just wanted to get the input of those who have been following more closely. Most of the discussion around here centers on the other conferences which, truthfully, I don't care much about. Does the Big10 have a shot at adding 2 quality schools in this whole mess, or are they SOL?

[MCXU]

Is it just me or does it look like the Big10 is going to end up SOL if and when a massive realignment occurs. The most common names I hear thrown out with regards to the Big10 in the expansion are Pitt, UConn, and Syracuse. If this whole thing is about football, what does adding any of those schools really do for the Big10?


I actually think that of all the conferences involved in this melee, the Big 10 may be the only one happy at 12 teams for now. Based on their past history they move very slowly and only when they feel it is the right fit. Penn St. and Nebraska both brought massive fan bases, AAU memberships and new markets.

I can see all of the shuffling taking place and the Big 10 staying put unless Notre Dame finally agrees to join. I think the Big 10 looks at it and says, so what if our potential targets accept invites to the Big East, ACC, SEC or any other conference. If we decide 5 years from now to invite them to the Big 10, they will likely accept.

Hubris? Yes, maybe, but I think that is their attitude.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I actually think that of all the conferences involved in this melee, the Big 10 may be the only one happy at 12 teams for now. Based on their past history they move very slowly and only when they feel it is the right fit. Penn St. and Nebraska both brought massive fan bases, AAU memberships and new markets.

I can see all of the shuffling taking place and the Big 10 staying put unless Notre Dame finally agrees to join. I think the Big 10 looks at it and says, so what if our potential targets accept invites to the Big East, ACC, SEC or any other conference. If we decide 5 years from now to invite them to the Big 10, they will likely accept.

Hubris? Yes, maybe, but I think that is their attitude.

I think thats probably what they are banking on. Four superconferences would practically force ND to join the Big 10+2+?

I guess other options for the Big 10 would be Pitt(Penn State would vehemently oppose it though), WVU, UL, Missouri....

One thing is for certain, whichever conference snoozes and becomes reactive in regards to re-alignment will not get the quality programs

[SixFig]

Roach's scenario would be a nice compromise. No 16 team power conferences plus Xavier gets into a great basketball conference

[waggy]

I actually think that of all the conferences involved in this melee, the Big 10 may be the only one happy at 12 teams for now. Based on their past history they move very slowly and only when they feel it is the right fit. Penn St. and Nebraska both brought massive fan bases, AAU memberships and new markets.

I can see all of the shuffling taking place and the Big 10 staying put unless Notre Dame finally agrees to join. I think the Big 10 looks at it and says, so what if our potential targets accept invites to the Big East, ACC, SEC or any other conference. If we decide 5 years from now to invite them to the Big 10, they will likely accept.

Hubris? Yes, maybe, but I think that is their attitude.


Agree on all this.

Went to a Baylor messageboard just to take a looksee and read how most everyone in the nation is behind this lawsuit threat.. David vs. Goliath, blah blah. I don't need to join another messageboard just to tell them what 'tards they are, but I'm thinking, what happens when A&M doesn't get their way? Who gets sued then?? Huh?

[danaandvictory]

Roach's scenario would be a nice compromise. No 16 team power conferences plus Xavier gets into a great basketball conference

I think it's equally likely that a big conference shakeup could hurt Xavier's conference position as help it.

Furthermore, I still have yet to see any viable reason why basketball-first schools like Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, and Georgetown would quit the Big East other than unsubstantiated hearsay about parity with the football schools.

Nor do I see how XU being united with teams like Seton Hall and Providence is at all better than our current setup, given that those schools' Q-rating is largely tied to the Big East brand. (I'm not saying I wouldn't take SH and PC over, say, Fordham and St. Bona -- but I don't think they add major quality either)

And, of course, the doomsday scenario is the big football megaconferences splitting off from the NCAA, in which case college basketball completely changes and God knows what happens.

[waggy]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/2011/09/texas-am-move-to-sec-getting-ugly-with-big-12

[xudash]

I think it's equally likely that a big conference shakeup could hurt Xavier's conference position as help it.

Furthermore, I still have yet to see any viable reason why basketball-first schools like Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, and Georgetown would quit the Big East other than unsubstantiated hearsay about parity with the football schools.

Nor do I see how XU being united with teams like Seton Hall and Providence is at all better than our current setup, given that those schools' Q-rating is largely tied to the Big East brand. (I'm not saying I wouldn't take SH and PC over, say, Fordham and St. Bona -- but I don't think they add major quality either)

And, of course, the doomsday scenario is the big football megaconferences splitting off from the NCAA, in which case college basketball completely changes and God knows what happens.

At present, I can only see all this as helping Xavier's conference affiliation status.

The BE hoops schools won't quit the BE. They'll most likely hang on for as long as possible. Their problem is that they won't hang on for long, because they'll either have nothing to hang on to - full BE implosion - or the BE football schools will scramble to attract other football schools in order to go to an all-sports format like everyone else. It will be tough. The numbers (television dollars) will have to work, but they'll have no choice in the matter anyway. From the point of view of the other power conferences, the BE's hybrid arrangement looks nuts.

It would be wonderful to find a way to dump LaSalle. It would be wonderful to do the same with Fordham. God bless them, but SBU is just too small and out of the way for the modern game/business.

Beyond that, keep in mind that Temple has its own designs on football relevance. That may or may not happen. UMass and Charlotte are right behind Temple. IF the A10 loses its big state schools, there is no way on God's green earth that I want Xavier associated with what's left over at that point - some of them "yes" - Richmond, etc. - but not bottom feeders like LaSalle.

[Xavgrad08]

Former Lawyer Kenneth Starr is currently the President of Baylor University. I am not a lawyer, but if law suits are filed wouldn't the resolution take a long time? It will definitely be interesting to watch this play out.

[waggy]

I think it's kinda odd that Slive is even asking for this assurance. If you believe what Beebe says, it's not the norm.

[xudash]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6940755/the-realignment-effect-college-hoops

[Muskie]

Kind of a cursory glance and somewhat repetitive.

[XUglow]

Baylor is unhappy with being left out. If the SEC offered them an invitation, they would jump at it. Same for the Pac12. They get millions of bucks from other schools, and that gravy train is leaving the station.

Where was their "keep Texas together" indignation when the Big 12 didn't want TCU, SMU, or Houston?

[danaandvictory]

Where was their "keep Texas together" indignation when the Big 12 didn't want TCU, SMU, or Houston?

I don't think the Big 12 wanted Baylor back in the day -- but Baylor had a very influential and powerful alum in Governor Ann Richards and her influence helped get the other Texas schools on board with Baylor's inclusion.

BU has no such ace in the hole now.

[XUglow]

I don't think the Big 12 wanted Baylor back in the day -- but Baylor had a very influential and powerful alum in Governor Ann Richards and her influence helped get the other Texas schools on board with Baylor's inclusion.

BU has no such ace in the hole now.

Exactly. I remember being surprised that Baylor was admitted to the Big 12. It made zero sense. They brought nothing to the table then. They bring nothing to the table now. Everyone not named Baylor seems to know that.

[Juice]

Exactly. I remember being surprised that Baylor was admitted to the Big 12. It made zero sense. They brought nothing to the table then. They bring nothing to the table now. Everyone not named Baylor seems to know that.

I do feel a little sorry for them (a tiny bit at most) because their basketball and football programs are showing signs of life. Their basketball team is recruiting 5 star players and their football team could make it two straight years in a bowl game.

Edit: Baylor to the Big East??
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

[xubrew]

I fear the worst. A Snipe-like apocalypse in which the four 16-team superconferences break away from the NCAA, leaving Xavier and everyone else in the dust. Why even play midmajors...just play each other and keep the profits.

Hopefully this new realignment affects primarily football only...but I doubt it

I'm kind of on the other side of the fence in how I look at it.

I think a third subdivision in div1 football is likely, but I don't think they'll leave the NCAA. No one tied to the schools has given any indication that they want to, and if you look at a lot of the campaigns for reform, most of it comes from the major programs. I have a whole slew of reasons, but those are the biggest two.

If there is a third subdivision, it will likely be....

-1A (the current BCS confernces/major programs)
-1AA (current FBS programs outside of the BCS (CUSA, WAC, MAC, MWC, SBC, and perhaps a few others)
-1AAA - basically the current FCS

All other sports will be one division with no subdivisions.

Will four superconferences DRASTICALLY change the landscape of college athletics?? Most people seem to think so, but I don't. Instead of six major conferences of 10-to-12 teams, we'll have four superconferences of 16 teams. I see no real difference. When it comes to the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots" the Haves are still the same, and the Have-nots are still the same. No one is being put out in the cold. The Have-nots are ALREADY out in the cold. They have been since the 1940s. So, what's really all that different?? For a few individual institutions it is big, but for the entire landscape as a whole, I don't think it really is.

If anything, four superconferences of 16 will most likely create eight divisions of 8. Those divisions will develop their own rivalries and their own sense of identity, perhaps even their own methods of revenue sharing. It may not turn out to be a bad thing for college sports after all.

[dc_x]

Will four superconferences DRASTICALLY change the landscape of college athletics?? Most people seem to think so, but I don't. Instead of six major conferences of 10-to-12 teams, we'll have four superconferences of 16 teams. I see no real difference. When it comes to the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots" the Haves are still the same, and the Have-nots are still the same. No one is being put out in the cold. The Have-nots are ALREADY out in the cold. They have been since the 1940s. So, what's really all that different?? For a few individual institutions it is big, but for the entire landscape as a whole, I don't think it really is.

If anything, four superconferences of 16 will most likely create eight divisions of 8. Those divisions will develop their own rivalries and their own sense of identity, perhaps even their own methods of revenue sharing. It may not turn out to be a bad thing for college sports after all.

I agree with this. We already have 6 football superconferences. They are just going to consolidate to 4 or 5.

I don't see much impact to basketball overall. Creating a separate basketball division for the "superconferences" would kill the value of the NCAA tournament which is the key source of value for college basketball.

[dc_x]

I have no idea if this "source" is credible, but rumors that ND and Texas jointly submiitted a proposal to join the Big 10.

http://northwestern.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=57&tid=162506546&mid=162506546&sid=901&style=2

Interesting point:


Notably, there is a general discontent with the reporting of the situation by ESPN with specific regard to Texas. ESPN has, for self-serving purposes, drastically exaggerated the lean of Texas to the Pac12 conference in nearly all commentary. ESPN has essentially waged a propaganda campaign to drive support among the Texas stakeholders to the Pac12 conference. ESPN has gone so far as to attempt to accelerate the disintegration of the Big XII to pressure Texas into making an immediate conference change decision. Texas has steadfastly resisted change, and will do so until the appropriate time occurs for Texas to stand in a strong position to renegotiate television contracts, including with ESPN.

[waggy]

Media outlets, including ESPN, want the super-conference. Pac12 commish said that every media outlet called him when reports were circulating they would go to 16 teams.

ESPN is likely at the root of the Big12 break up.

[muskienick]

I agree with this. We already have 6 football superconferences. They are just going to consolidate to 4 or 5.

I don't see much impact to basketball overall. Creating a separate basketball division for the "superconferences" would kill the value of the NCAA tournament which is the key source of value for college basketball.

The one way that the 4 superconferences could affect the basketball scene would be with the breakup of the Big East along FB and BB lines. The end effect of that happening would be the potential creation of two superconferences in Basketball. They likely would not have 16 members each (more likely 9-12), but they could be attractive enough to be invited to join the FB superconferences in the possible break away from the NCAA. Those 82 - 88 teams would rule in March. Without the 18-24 very good basketball programs, the 56-64 programs forming the Breakaway Association would not have the total domination in March as they would with the likes of XU, G-Town, Villanova, Temple, Memphis, VCU, Marquette, Butler, etc., etc., etc.

[dc_x]

but they could be attractive enough to be invited to join the FB superconferences in the possible break away from the NCAA.

I don't think a break away from the NCAA will ever happen for basketball. In football, the breakaway has essentially already occurred. The NCAA has no jurisdiction over the BCS.

Basketball needs the little guys because they make the NCAA tournament special. Without the Belmonts of the world, the NCAA tournament is a lot less valuable.

[paulxu]

Former Lawyer Kenneth Starr is currently the President of Baylor University.


Exactly. I remember being surprised that Baylor was admitted to the Big 12. It made zero sense. They brought nothing to the table then. They bring nothing to the table now. Everyone not named Baylor seems to know that.

Well, that clears up a lot of confusion.

[Muskie]

Well, that clears up a lot of confusion.

I think Gov. Ann Richards went to bat for Baylor if I remember correctly.

[danaandvictory]

I think Gov. Ann Richards went to bat for Baylor if I remember correctly.

Yep. Richards was governor in 1992 when the SWC/Big 12 negotiations went through.

Baylor also probably has the second most prestigious law school in Texas -- behind Austin -- and therefore my understanding is that historically it's had a disproportionate number of alumni and allies in the state legislature.

[Muskie]

Yep. Richards was governor in 1992 when the SWC/Big 12 negotiations went through.

Baylor also probably has the second most prestigious law school in Texas -- behind Austin -- and therefore my understanding is that historically it's had a disproportionate number of alumni and allies in the state legislature.

Correct. If i remember the scenario TCU was supposed to be in the Big 12 but Gov. Richards got Baylor swapped in at the last moment. The folks at TCU have apparently never forgotten.

[XUglow]

I caught T. Boone Pickens being interviewed on ESPN last night. He wants NO part of the Pac 12. He wants to keep the Big 12 as the Big 12. He does want the conference money split evenly. (I'm looking at you, Texas.) He thinks the Aggies may stay put. He is not an admin at OSU, but he did give them $300M, so obviously his wishes cannot be ignored. He also said that OU and OSU were a package deal whatever happens.

[Juice]

I caught T. Boone Pickens being interviewed on ESPN last night. He wants NO part of the Pac 12. He wants to keep the Big 12 as the Big 12. He does want the conference money split evenly. (I'm looking at you, Texas.) He thinks the Aggies may stay put. He is not an admin at OSU, but he did give them $300M, so obviously his wishes cannot be ignored. He also said that OU and OSU were a package deal whatever happens.

I read his book and forget the details exactly, but he has also given a large sum of money to Texas as well. I think it had some stipulations on it though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I caught T. Boone Pickens being interviewed on ESPN last night. He wants NO part of the Pac 12. He wants to keep the Big 12 as the Big 12. He does want the conference money split evenly. (I'm looking at you, Texas.) He thinks the Aggies may stay put. He is not an admin at OSU, but he did give them $300M, so obviously his wishes cannot be ignored. He also said that OU and OSU were a package deal whatever happens.

At this point, I don't know how much influence OSU has on anything...

Lets say the Big 12 is a bus. A B12 bus with the words "Texas" in huge font on both sides and the front. The names of the other schools are in size 10 yellow font on the back.

A&M is the kid opened the emergency back door exit causing the entire bus to stop. He got fed up with the inefficiency of the route.

OU is the bus driver now. Underpaid, lack of energy, and upset with the ruckus going on from Texas and the others. Oklahoma does not like the current bus route it is on. It thinks there is a better route to get to Moneyville. They have stopped the bus at a fork in the road

Texas is passively looking out the window near the front - trying not to get into anymore trouble. Texas knows it started it, but wants to sit back and act like he's innocent. He wants the others to get into trouble. He's the instigator. He shot the first spitball at the driver and let the others take it a step further.

OSU is the quiet one near the front but completely well behaved. Normally Afraid of getting caught for anything, he wants to prove to the others he's a rebel without a cause. He's not. He is a teacher's pet poindexter. NERD ALERT

Baylor, ISU and some others are in the back yelling at A&M. They are attempting to bully A&M through numbers. A&M is a rebel though. It doesn't care. So then they start shooting spitballs at the driver, hoping to get his attention. Almost as if they are Daring the bus driver change the route or leave from the bus. They are a rowdy bunch and feed off one another.

Will Oklahoma:
A) Simply leave the bus in the middle of a busy intersection?
B) Push the gas pedal, roll out the sliding door, and Drive a bus off a cliff like an alternate ending of Speed
C) Change the route of the bus

One thing is for certain, I've had way too much coffee this morning

http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_02/sp_0207_01_v6.jpg?width=480

[muskienick]

I don't think a break away from the NCAA will ever happen for basketball. In football, the breakaway has essentially already occurred. The NCAA has no jurisdiction over the BCS.

Basketball needs the little guys because they make the NCAA tournament special. Without the Belmonts of the world, the NCAA tournament is a lot less valuable.

My point was that there would be an awfully lot of traditionally poor basketball programs forming the post season Championship field for the "Breakaway Athletic Accociation." I could see the SEC, ACC, and Big 10 forming three 15-member Conferences, the PAC going to 16 and the Big East and Big 12 combining forces (with help from elsewhere) to get to 10 teams (or 12 with a lot of help).
SEC (15): Georgia, Auburn, Bama, Ten, KY, Fla, Miss, MSU, LSU, Vandy, So. Car, Ark, WVa, aTm, and UofL
ACC (15): Duke, UNC, NC St, Va, Va Tech, Md, BC, Miami, Clem, FlaSt, Wake, UGa, UConn, Syr, Rutgers
Big 10 (15): OSU, Mich, MSU, Purd, Ind, Ill, PSU, Min, Iowa, Neb, Wisc, NW, Pitt, Missouri, ND
PAC (16): Wash, WSU, Ore, OSU, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Ariz, ASU. Colo, Utah, Texas, Okla, OkSt, T Tech
The above would certainly be BCS

The Below may not be acceptable to the BCS
Big East/12 (10-12): UC, So Fla, TCU, Kan, KSU, ISU, Baylor, C. Fla, Houston, Boise St., Air Force, Colorado St.

These situations will probably not ever occur, but if the last scenario somehow takes effect, UC is SOL!

[paulxu]

B) Push the gas pedal, roll out the sliding door, and Drive a bus off a cliff like an alternate ending of Speed

Yes.

http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/a/a7/CityontheEdgeofForever01.gif

[muskienick]

I don't think a break away from the NCAA will ever happen for basketball. In football, the breakaway has essentially already occurred. The NCAA has no jurisdiction over the BCS.

Basketball needs the little guys because they make the NCAA tournament special. Without the Belmonts of the world, the NCAA tournament is a lot less valuable.

If you were the likes of Memphis, Butler, Marquette, Villanova, Temple, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, etc., would you rather be a part of a March National College Basketball Championship Tourney that included Duke, Syracuse, UConn, North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Kentucky, Alabama, Stanford, etc. or one that included (other than the ones mentioned at the beginning of the first sentence) teams like UMass, East Carolina, Toledo, Missouri State, Tulsa, St. Mary's, Wyoming, Canisius, Western Kentucky, etc.?

Currently in the NCAA, there are 5 BCS Football Conferences, one BCS hybrid Conference, a number of Division 1 lesser-than-BCS football Conferences, a number of lesser-than-BCS hybrid Conferences, and some Division one Conferences which do not sponsor D-1 Football.

Why shouldn't the four or five BCS Football Conferences, if they break away from the NCAA, invite the two best (newly-formed) non-BCS Basketball driven Conferences to join them in creating their own new version of the NCAA (e.g. the All-American Collegiate Athletic Association)? They wouldn't WANT to need the Belmonts of the world. They WOULD want the schools with great name recognition, long traditions of success, good facilities, and located in nice-sized metropolitan media centers to boost the stature of their version of March Madness. Regardless of who has copywrite ownership of "March Madness," which Tourney do you think the media would follow most closely and feature more prominently? The one where the Championship game is determined by George Mason vs St. Mary's or the one in which Georgetown is challenging UCLA?

If money is driving these changes, it won't stop at football. March Madness is the most exciting and lucrative draw in College Sports. The BCS Breakaways won't take their eye off that ball if they are smart!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Sources tell Orangebloods.com OU's regents will vote to appy for membership to Pac-12 by the end of the month. ... bit.ly/p0GIhM


RIP BIG 12

[xudash]

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Sources tell Orangebloods.com OU's regents will vote to appy for membership to Pac-12 by the end of the month. ... bit.ly/p0GIhM


RIP BIG 12

It's just too logical for this not to happen. It's very simple: Texas has an absolute and material advantage over its conference mates at this point. That advantage is so daunting that it would be almost insane for prominent schools such as Oklahoma to stay in a conference arrangement like the Big 12 with Texas while it slowly diminishes in stature.

Take action now, towards something that will have both real and perceived advantages.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Here we go Dash!

Oklahoma regents are unanimous in their desire to join the Pac 12. They will apply before the month is over. Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit.

Oklahoma is gone regardless of what Texas does. Will Texas and Tech follow suit? TBD

All the major conferences better be ready to pluck off the good teams or try to hold onto them...

[GoMuskies]

How about Texas to the Big East? No sillier than Oklahoma to the Pac 12. And the Big East is probably the only BCS league that would be just fine with Texas keeping their Longhorn Network. And it would make MOR's head explode with the network REALLY becoming BESPN.

[xudash]

Here we go Dash!

Oklahoma regents are unanimous in their desire to join the Pac 12. They will apply before the month is over. Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit.

Oklahoma is gone regardless of what Texas does. Will Texas and Tech follow suit? TBD

All the major conferences better be ready to pluck off the good teams or try to hold onto them...

I love it.

Way, way, way down the list, I want the BE to break-up so that we can read fan reactions from the Nova, Georgetown, and Marquette boards, as they react to fans from Pitt, Syracuse, etc. referring to them as newly minted mid-majors.

Like I wrote: way, way, way down the list, but it helps demonstrate the absurdity of labeling strong, well-performing programs with football-related terms.

[xubrew]

How about Texas to the Big East? No sillier than Oklahoma to the Pac 12. And the Big East is probably the only BCS league that would be just fine with Texas keeping their Longhorn Network. And it would make MOR's head explode with the network REALLY becoming BESPN.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Texas end up in the Pac Ten. It would come with stipulations regarding the LHN (like Texas only being able to keep all the LHN profits until 2014), but I think it is very possible. Everyone hears rumors, and I'm no different, so take it for what it's worth. My guess is that Texas will be in the Big Ten with one other team.

....and getting back to something else that was stated earlier, I don't think any of the major programs will break off from the NCAA. No one is talking about it, and it is not to their advantage to do it.

[STL_XUfan]

interesting take on the rumors coming out of Texas from a Mizzou blogger:

"MIZZOUEXPANSIONAPALOOZA™ 2011

As I've said many times, as long as we take him for what he is, Chip Brown is an incredibly valuable resource for realignment rumors. In this case, with A&M pretty much officially out the door, instead of taking at 100% face value his "OU all but gone" article below, we should take it as "Texas wants us to know OU is all but gone." So what's the purpose then? Is it simply Texas trying to blame others for the Big 12's downfall (like Berry Tramel always finds a way to blame Missouri)? Is it to put extra pressure on Oklahoma?

Until Oklahoma actually leaves, part of me will believe that this is all posturing, and for good reason: it usually is. Still, it appears Oklahoma is a lot closer to being gone than I expected them to be. And as we've been saying for a while, if they're gone, the Big 12 is too. The conference can absorb A&M's loss, it can absorb Mizzou's or Kansas' or Texas Tech's, too. But Oklahoma?"

http://www.rockmnation.com/2011/9/13/2422324/mizzou-links-9-13-11

[JWSmuskie]

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=bilas_jay&id=6964846

Interesting insider article by Bilas on the effects of the super-conferences on basketball.. Mentions how it could benefit programs like Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, VCU

[principal]

Suddenly Big 6 teams decide that being a greedy b@stard that looks out only for oneself is a bad thing:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6970677/big-12-schools-face-economic-impact-shuffling

[xudash]

Suddenly Big 6 teams decide that being a greedy b@stard that looks out only for oneself is a bad thing:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6970677/big-12-schools-face-economic-impact-shuffling

So the Big East is in the same category of regard as many diseases.

The idea that Mizzou believes that the B1G is holding to 12 is interesting. The B1G had better be careful, because, from a football standpoint, I doubt Pitt and Rutgers are going to scare anyone soon.

Texas basically caused what's going on now. A&M put things into motion. The major pivot point now seems to rest with the Sooners.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Some news and notes as I wait for my meeting:

FSU is creating a re-alignment committee. Texas to the ACC is the new rumor of the day after they had preliminary talks
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/seminoles/fsu-preparing-for-realignment-possibilities-such-as-moving-1855047.html

Sooner Scoop guy from Rivals said I think there is little doubt that Oklahoma is headed to the PAC-12, and believe that Oklahoma State is in lockstep with this...Some pretty good quotes in here(Rivals subscription)

http://oregonstate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1265439

Seattle news saying an Austin Newspaper is saying that Oklahoma is 'hell bent' on bringing Texas to the Pac 12

http://www.king5.com/sports/Pac-12-expanding-again--Oklahoma-and-Texas-consider-applying-129806273.html

More speculation about Oklahoma and Texas from the Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pac12confidential/2016197186_realignment_thoughts_guesses_rumination s.html

Message board rumors from Oklahoma now saying ACC targeting Texas, Baylor, Missouri, and Kansas
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=146&f=2445&t=7925161

'Texas drove everyone away, now begging for ACC acceptance' - Sporting News

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-09-14/texas-drove-everyone-away-now-begging-for-acc-acceptance#ixzz1Y1y0eBeJ

[GoMuskies]

Baylor in the ACC is funny.

[xudash]

"'Texas drove everyone away, now begging for ACC acceptance' - Sporting News"

What an extreme statement.

If it's true, is it that possible that Texas could have been so arrogant about all this as to be blinded by their TV deal at the expense of not considering the ramifications of converting to an independent status?

As just one example, Notre Dame always realized it was going to need a home for all sports but football. Was Texas so certain that the other Big XII schools were going to absolutely lay down that they never - never - considered what might happen if the conference, in fact, began to crumble?

Reverse leverage, anyone?

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the A.C.C.

[MADXSTER]

The ACC has a rule that all schools must reside in a state located on the Atlantic coast. Obviously this would have to change.

I have always thought that Xavier would pair up in the ACC better than any other conference if the ACC were to ever expand. Except for the fact that Xavier is not on the coast.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe global warming can get us into the ACC.

[waggy]

And sportfishing charters to the gulf stream out of eastern kentucky. yee haw.

[X-band '01]

Baylor in the ACC is funny.

Exactly who draws up these scenarios?

[moepvc04]

It seems like there is a very good chance that a basketball only conference will be formed, and it will likely stay under the Big East name. If it does work out like this, Xavier will likely be the first team invited to a conference that consists of St. Johns, Nova, G'Town, Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, Providence. Who else would get invited to this league? I would think Butler, St. Louis, and possibly Temple (if the MAC is ok with keeping their football team only). And if it goes down like this, would it benefit Xavier? I would imagine it would help on the recruiting front, but I would think our chance of making the NCAA tournament every year would go down. Overall good for the university I suppose

[GoMuskies]

I would think our chance of making the NCAA tournament every year would go down.

How on earth could you think that?

[moepvc04]

Well I am assuming we would have the same chance to make the tournament given our regular season resume. Based of this assumption, we would undoubtedly have a lower chance of winning the conference tourney due to much harder competition. So if we were to have a season where our regular season performance wouldn't get us to the dance, we would have less of a chance of getting there by winning the tourney.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think that's a concern much worth getting worked up over since it's only saved us once in the A-10 in 15 years. Our 7 seed in 2004 proved we didn't need to win the conference tourney to get in that year, and the win we actually needed to get in was over the undefeated #1 ranked team in the country. Doubt it will get much tougher than that in another league.

[xudash]

It seems like there is a very good chance that a basketball only conference will be formed, and it will likely stay under the Big East name. If it does work out like this, Xavier will likely be the first team invited to a conference that consists of St. Johns, Nova, G'Town, Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, Providence. Who else would get invited to this league? I would think Butler, St. Louis, and possibly Temple (if the MAC is ok with keeping their football team only). And if it goes down like this, would it benefit Xavier? I would imagine it would help on the recruiting front, but I would think our chance of making the NCAA tournament every year would go down. Overall good for the university I suppose

The MCC formed and we evolved to own that.

We were granted admission to the A10 and we came to own that.

We are better positioned than any existing BE hoops school as we exist today, primarily due to the Cintas Center, our administration, and a coach who will be with us for a long, long time.

Sorry, but I like our chances of continuing what we've been about - becoming a major player on the national scene.

[GuyFawkes38]

NYT article on Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

From the comments from Syracuse officials, it seems to have some validity.

[Masterofreality]

NYT article on Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaafootball/syracuse-and-pitt-in-talks-with-acc.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

If they leave, count on West Virginia bailing-maybe to the Big 10?

[GuyFawkes38]

If they leave, count on West Virginia bailing-maybe to the Big 10?

I've heard from Big10 fans that that isn't an option due to academic concerns and the lack of big markets they'd bring in. I honestly have no idea if that's true.

who knows. A year ago it sounded like Syracuse, Rutgers, and Maryland were a lock for the B10. That didn't work out.

For syracuse and Pitt, is the ACC really a big step up from the Big East? It didn't work out well for Boston College. They'd lose some big regional rivals. Doesn't make sense to me.

[GoMuskies]

Pennsylvania doesn't touch the Atlantic Coast, does it? ACC to break with tradition?

[GuyFawkes38]

Pennsylvania doesn't touch the Atlantic Coast, does it? ACC to break with tradition?

true. If the ACC added Texas instead, they would sort of keep that intact.

[halcyon.days.of.Carter]

It seems like there is a very good chance that a basketball only conference will be formed, and it will likely stay under the Big East name. If it does work out like this, Xavier will likely be the first team invited to a conference that consists of St. Johns, Nova, G'Town, Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, Providence. Who else would get invited to this league? I would think Butler, St. Louis, and possibly Temple (if the MAC is ok with keeping their football team only). And if it goes down like this, would it benefit Xavier? I would imagine it would help on the recruiting front, but I would think our chance of making the NCAA tournament every year would go down. Overall good for the university I suppose

I think you're forgetting Notre Dame in this equation too since they're already a current basketball only Big East member. That is, of course, assuming we don't end up with four 16 team superconferences. If that happens (and Texas does not go independent) ND will most likely be forced to join the B1G much to the chagrin of the entire fanbase. That, of course, will include basketball as well.

I was working this scenario out in my head this morning and totally forgot about Temple. I think you're right that they would probably end up in a conference like this. Not too sure about St. Louis, though. I would think UMass or Richmond would have a better shot than them but admit that either one is a stretch.

[GoMuskies]

I think Temple ends up in the MAC for all sports.

[THRILLHOUSE]

A Big East official is telling CBS Sports that Pitt and Cuse are "likely gone". http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32035225

I love this. Big East breaking up was the one thing that needed to happen for X to get in a better basketball conference and it appears its going to happen. Even though we have proven that conference affiliation doesn't mean everything, I would love to be in a conference with Georgetown, Marquette, Vilanova, etc.

And to all the uc fans who thought they were relevant because they were in the Big East:

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg

[paulxu]

true. If the ACC added Texas instead, they would sort of keep that intact.

This is why I flunked geography. I told the nun Texas was on the Gulf.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A Big East official is telling CBS Sports that Pitt and Cuse are "likely gone". http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32035225

I love this. Big East breaking up was the one thing that needed to happen for X to get in a better basketball conference and it appears its going to happen. Even though we have proven that conference affiliation doesn't mean everything, I would love to be in a conference with Georgetown, Marquette, Vilanova, etc.

And to all the uc fans who thought they were relevant because they were in the Big East:

http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg

Huge news of Syracuse and Pitt applying for the ACC. One is a founding member and one has been a member since 1982.

The Oklahoma regents are expected to meet and possibly vote on going to the Pac 12 monday.

SEC is courting WVU and VT depending on who you read. Let the dominoes fall!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

schadjoe Joe Schad

Former Cuse QB Don McPherson on ACC: "I like the move. The landscape of college sports is rapidly changing..."

"... and frankly, the Big East is not strong enough to survive it's current course."

[GuyFawkes38]

ESPN has a lot of cash invested in Big East bball.

I wonder how they will react. Can they impede this?

I guess this could be good for us. But I still think it sucks from a larger basketball perspective. I love watching Syracuse and Pitt battle it out in the Big East tourney. ugghh.

[X-band '01]

Pennsylvania doesn't touch the Atlantic Coast, does it? ACC to break with tradition?

The Delaware River and its proximity to Chesapeake Bay put Pennsylvania in "close but no cigar" territory. Pennsylvania did actually annex Delaware at one point (aka the "Lower Counties") during colonial times but didn't last long.

[xudash]

This has become a remarkable game of poker, in the sense that these various BCS programs are sitting at the table, getting ripped apart individually by two opposite forces: the idea of tradition (e.g. Syracuse founding member of BE) and familiarity, etc., versus thinking strategically about what must be done to optimize their chances for relevancy for the future. They're sitting there, watching each other's every mannerism and move, trying themselves to be still and poker-faced, wondering who is going to jump next.

Television changed the presidency with the advent of the televised debates between Kennedy and Nixon. It has been and now is rapidly changing the landscape of collegiate athletics.

The Pitt/Syracuse news should not surprise anyone. Say what you want about the ACC, but it still has more history than the BE, it is an all-sports conference like the other 4 BCS all-sports conferences, and it has better institutions overall than does the BE. It simply is better positioned than the BE, regardless of what anyone thinks the BE is capable of doing in terms of getting its large population centers to tune into collegiate football.

Isn't it over already? Isn't it highly likely that Pitt and 'cuse will move on to join the ACC? How can it not be when Swofford is sitting there, watching the SEC about to admit Texas A&M to its stable, knowing that another program is on the way to balance the conference to 14 members. I think Pitt and Syracuse tried to get some kind of very quiet read on the B1G's intentions, only to find out that the B1G's intergalactic headquarters showed no enthusiasm over the idea of extending invitations to them. They also see Oklahoma and OSU as most likely moving to the Pac XX.

So the card game just got more interesting. The teams that are running out of chips the fastest are the ones who will be left over to form something out of the remains of the BE and Big XII. IF it truly goes to 4x16, some teams, like a UC could be like those losers in Vegas who have to walk to McCarran to catch their sad flight home.

Our sports columnist in Jacksonville actually sees that happening in a column he wrote for Saturday's paper.
---------------------------------------------------
A Few Comments About the A10:

If I'm the commissioner of the A10, I'm on the phone today to the school presidents as soon as I see the news flash about Pitt and Syracuse. The options aren't clear, if there are any options at all, but some action is better than no action at this point.

Start running some scenarios.

The first key one to run is "How to Keep Xavier." The powers-that-be should meet and immediately change the conference by-laws or conference affiliation agreement - whatever constitutes the legal agreement that governs conference operations. That would open the door to exit LaSalle and Fordham. I mean like immediately, not over one or two years. If the Big XII and A&M can settle on a multi-million dollar exit fee, notwithstanding the threat of additional litigation in their case, the A10 can handle two pathetic, loser programs with minimal disruption. I doubt lawsuits would result from those schools given their lack of performance. The conference probably would countersue anyway. Inform Xavier that you'll be going after Butler and perhaps Boston University to strengthen the conference. All that wouldn't be enough, because the BE will be better for Xavier in every regard, and Xavier knows that it is a matter of time before Temple, UMass and Charlotte exit for football reasons.

Scenario Two is "Become the next strongest conference behind the new BE hoops conference." Essentially, do everything noted for scenario one, except with the understanding that you are losing Xavier.

Not long ago, on this board and the A10 board, a number of people mentioned that Xavier probably was locked into the A10 and that the collegial nature of these conferences was such that seismic shifts in conference alignments were unlikely. The quote, from Reece Davis in this case, is that "Pitt and Syracuse have submitted applications to join the ACC." That is so far removed from being a preliminary action and so close to being a done deal that it isn't even funny.

[GuyFawkes38]

With UC firmly in the Big East, there is no possible way the Big East would invite X.

The Big East would invite any of the Big12 rejects or Butler, St. Louis, and even Dayton, before us.

I guess some sort of football/basketball split might happen, but I find that unlikely.

IMHO, this is a sad day for college basketball.

[Masterofreality]

Syracuse and Pitt want to leave the Big Greased. HA!

How does TCU feel now about going to a declining conference? I wonder if they would renege?

[principal]

With UC firmly in the Big East, there is no possible way the Big East would invite X.

The Big East would invite any of the Big12 rejects or Butler, St. Louis, and even Dayton, before us.

I guess some sort of football/basketball split might happen, but I find that unlikely.

IMHO, this is a sad day for college basketball.

I don't doubt that UC would vote against adding Xavier. What is important is whether or not they have a deciding vote? Does it require unanimous consent to add a team? Further, with the league sinking fast, or apparently sinking fast, they are going to do whatever makes the most sense in order to maximize revenue. If that means having two teams from the same city in the same league, they will push for it, regardless of what UC wants. How would this be any different than Duke and UNC both being in the ACC? I just don't see the BE holding up the future for the sake of UC. It hasn't ruined Duke or UNC, it won't ruin Xavier or UC.

Nevertheless, does anyone know what the BE rules are for adding a school?

principal

[principal]

From epsn.com (probably the same rumor, but it does say a high ranking official from the ACC has confirmed): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6980644/pitt-syracuse-apply-join-acc-ranks-source-says

Maybe nothing new, but a different source/spin/etc.

principal

[GuyFawkes38]

I don't doubt that UC would vote against adding Xavier. What is important is whether or not they have a deciding vote? Does it require unanimous consent to add a team? Further, with the league sinking fast, or apparently sinking fast, they are going to do whatever makes the most sense in order to maximize revenue. If that means having two teams from the same city in the same league, they will push for it, regardless of what UC wants. How would this be any different than Duke and UNC both being in the ACC? I just don't see the BE holding up the future for the sake of UC. It hasn't ruined Duke or UNC, it won't ruin Xavier or UC.

Nevertheless, does anyone know what the BE rules are for adding a school?

principal

I have no idea if UC has a deciding vote. I doubt it. But that's irrelevant.

Why would the Big East add a school in a market they already have, with a relatively small almuni base.

With UC firmly in the Big East and the Big12 imploding, there's a long list of schools the Big East would rather have than X (yes, Iowa St, Kansas, Missouri, and even SLU, Butler, Dayton which provide new markets and larger alumni bases).

I'm sorry to be the downer.

[xudash]

I have no idea if UC has a deciding vote. I doubt it. But that's irrelevant.

Why would the Big East add a school in a market they already have, with a relatively small almuni base.

With UC firmly in the Big East and the Big12 imploding, there's a long list of schools the Big East would rather have than X (yes, Iowa St, Kansas, Missouri, and even SLU, Butler, Dayton which provide new markets and larger alumni bases).

I'm sorry to be the downer.

You don't seem to acknowledge that it is the BE that is imploding. It's losing a charter member and a key football member. The news apparently is coming by tomorrow or Monday at the latest that it is official. It's coming in before OU and OSU announce for the Pac XX officially.

You're only being a downer to yourself. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine.

My opinion, given all this - and what you are really failing to realize: the BE hybrid conference format is done. It's dead. I could give a rat's ass what UC thinks. IF anything, right now, especially given all the conjecture, UC may end up on the outside looking in. A newish, weak, BCS-wannabe with a small stadium isn't going to have much of a voice in all this.

Assuming it's all going to 4x16, UC could very well be toast and there will not be a hybrid conference at the BCS level. If it goes such that a 5th conference is allowed at this point, because, among other reasons, the B1G stands pat at 12 for now, that 5th conference will be comprised of BE and Big XII remnants and it will be an all-sports conference.

I see it as being clear as it can be right now - the BE is heading towards a clear split.

[X-band '01]

If Dayton goes to the Big East and effs Xavier on the way, you can be assured that the Jimmy Carter streak will last in perpetuity. The Big East and their scheduling philosophy would never allow them to set foot in Cintas again. They would at least have a fighting chance winning at UC, though.

What did Threepio say those odds were?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I have no idea if UC has a deciding vote. I doubt it. But that's irrelevant.

Why would the Big East add a school in a market they already have, with a relatively small almuni base.

With UC firmly in the Big East and the Big12 imploding, there's a long list of schools the Big East would rather have than X (yes, Iowa St, Kansas, Missouri, and even SLU, Butler, Dayton which provide new markets and larger alumni bases).

I'm sorry to be the downer.

There may not be a Big East left when this is all said and done. Or what if it splits? Or if the Big 12 tries to invite UC, UL and some others like some think


This could go 1,273,475,382,375,283 ways

[GuyFawkes38]

Has a conference ever split? It would be a legal mess.

All the basketball schools want the conference to remain intact. Perhaps the football schools have some sort of incentive for the basketball schools to part ways. But they can't just kick them out.

It's legally tough to kick out a group of schools who want to be part of the conference. How would that practically happen?

Pete Thamel, who is a good source on all of this, tweeted (http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/status/115143008407658496)
"My educated speculation is that the remaining Big East and Big 12 football schools, whoever they are, will attempt to join together."

Hopefully that somehow happens and X could be in a conference with Big EAST bball rejects. But I have my doubts.

For that to happen we would need a massive implosion of the entire conference system. The Big12 would have to completely dissolve and a group of Big East football schools would have to completely turn their backs on the Big East conference. Can't see that happening.

[paulxu]

The ACC is going to 14.
The SEC is going to 13 (then 14 for sure)
The Pac 12 is thinking of going bigger
The Big 10 has 12.

The BigE has 6 football teams. That's a joke. And only 1 or 2 are real players.
If W. Va. went to the Big 10 and South Fla found a home, there's nothing left.
They'd do well to all go somewhere and leave the name with the BBall schools.

Those 8 would need to add a couple to be a good conference (2 or 4).

[xudash]

Has a conference ever split? It would be a legal mess.

All the basketball schools want the conference to remain intact. Perhaps the football schools have some sort of incentive for the basketball schools to part ways. But they can't just kick them out.

It's legally tough to kick out a group of schools who want to be part of the conference. How would that practically happen?

Pete Thamel, who is a good source on all of this, tweeted (http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/status/115143008407658496)
"My educated speculation is that the remaining Big East and Big 12 football schools, whoever they are, will attempt to join together."

I just hope the A10 remains intact.

I thought you were a business guy. What's the true difference between an entire conference (BE) splitting and one school leaving a conference (A&M leaving the Big XII) other than numbers? It's a negotiation.

Firstly, a compelling reason is necessary for splitting. That reason would be about football and realizing that the power-players in the sport are taking this thing to some form of a modified oligopoly. Ohio State, Florida, USC, etc. could care less what certain schools from the BE and Big XII think or do. This is going to be about all-sports behemoths. You're either in or you're not in.

Your quote above should help you to figure this out. The remaining schools will most likely attempt to join together. They're going to join together. The BE hoops schools aren't included in that union.

CBS has just reported at half-time of the FL/TN game that the Pitt & 'cuse deal is done; announcing tomorrow. The BE has contacted the remaining Big XII to garner their interest.

[DC Muskie]

I just want to make sure dash and nick are doing okay. They have been talking about this for what seems like 10 years.

What a crazy time we live in.

[xudash]

I just want to make sure dash and nick are doing okay. They have been talking about this for what seems like 10 years.

What a crazy time we live in.

Thanks for thinking about me DC. I'm in pig heaven over this.

If it turns out the way I believe it's evolving, we're going to end up in a nice niche with strong schools, having respected hoops programs and an ESPN that will be motivated to build reasonably strong distribution around the product.

BTW, was in DC last weekend for a family wedding. Ended up at Ray's Hell Burger in Alexandria. WOW.

[XUFan09]

The Big East could survive, or at least delay the inevitable. If they are losing two members (and I'll believe that info to be true in the end), they could pick up other teams. They have to or they'll die; it's a question of how successful they'll be in that effort. One or more of the Big 12 teams could end up there. Memphis or one of the other C-USA teams could also get invited, and they'd be logical geographical choices too.

In the end, the Big 12 might be the sole conference to collapse this time around (which from a basketball perspective and as a Mizzou fan, I find to be a shame because I like the conference overall). The Big East could even benefit from the Big 12's implosion by picking off the scraps. Or, they both could face their ends; I think that will happen in the long run but not necessarily in this round. I hope it happens this round though. And for the Big East basketball schools, losing UC to football alignment but adding Xavier would be an overall plus.

[Juice]

The Big East could survive, or at least delay the inevitable. If they are losing two members (and I'll believe that info to be true in the end), they could pick up other teams. They have to or they'll die; it's a question of how successful they'll be in that effort. One or more of the Big 12 teams could end up there. Memphis or one of the other C-USA teams could also get invited, and they'd be logical geographical choices too.

In the end, the Big 12 might be the sole conference to collapse this time around (which from a basketball perspective and as a Mizzou fan, I find to be a shame because I like the conference overall). The Big East could even benefit from the Big 12's implosion by picking off the scraps. Or, they both could face their ends; I think that will happen in the long run but not necessarily in this round. I hope it happens this round though. And for the Big East basketball schools, losing UC to football alignment but adding Xavier would be an overall plus.

The Big East will just replace Syracuse and Pitt with Kansas and another school like Kansas St. There is no way the Big 12 survives.

[GuyFawkes38]

I thought you were a business guy. What's the true difference between an entire conference (BE) splitting and one school leaving a conference (A&M leaving the Big XII) other than numbers? It's a negotiation.

Firstly, a compelling reason is necessary for splitting. That reason would be about football and realizing that the power-players in the sport are taking this thing to some form of a modified oligopoly. Ohio State, Florida, USC, etc. could care less what certain schools from the BE and Big XII think or do. This is going to be about all-sports behemoths. You're either in or you're not in.

Your quote above should help you to figure this out. The remaining schools will most likely attempt to join together. They're going to join together. The BE hoops schools aren't included in that union.

CBS has just reported at half-time of the FL/TN game that the Pitt & 'cuse deal is done; announcing tomorrow. The BE has contacted the remaining Big XII to garner their interest.

My fault. I keep editing my posts. And yes, I realized that the quote forecasted a positive possiblity for X.

Can the Big East just kick out the basketball schools? I think a new conference would have to be created, excluding the bball schools.

This is a mess. And I could see it ending badly for X.

Somehow, UC needs to be separated from the Big East bball schools. If that doesn't happen, there is no possible way X's situation will improve from all of this.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I agree with Jimmy, still tons of possibilities, but I think the "split" happens.

[BMoreX]

I thought you were a business guy. What's the true difference between an entire conference (BE) splitting and one school leaving a conference (A&M leaving the Big XII) other than numbers? It's a negotiation.

Firstly, a compelling reason is necessary for splitting. That reason would be about football and realizing that the power-players in the sport are taking this thing to some form of a modified oligopoly. Ohio State, Florida, USC, etc. could care less what certain schools from the BE and Big XII think or do. This is going to be about all-sports behemoths. You're either in or you're not in.

Your quote above should help you to figure this out. The remaining schools will most likely attempt to join together. They're going to join together. The BE hoops schools aren't included in that union.

CBS has just reported at half-time of the FL/TN game that the Pitt & 'cuse deal is done; announcing tomorrow. The BE has contacted the remaining Big XII to garner their interest.

Just going off of your thoughts, I would bet that the Big East football schools leave the Big East to join the revamped Big XII. That means Louisville, UC, USF, UConn, Rutgers, and WVU join up with the remnants of the Big XII, probably Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., etc. (Depending on who heads out to the Pac. Also, I think WVU gets the invite from the SEC.) There are probably less legal hurdles doing it that way then a full-on conference split between the basketball and football schools.

This also allows the basketball schools to keep the Big East name.

[XUFan09]

My fault. I keep editing my posts. And yes, I realized that the quote forecasted a positive possiblity for X.

Can the Big East just kick out the basketball schools? I think a new conference would have to be created, excluding the bball schools.

This is a mess. And I could see it ending badly for X.

Somehow, UC needs to be separated from the Big East bball schools. If that doesn't happen, there is no possible way X's situation will improve from all of this.

I've heard that Big East programs can't realistically be kicked out, but it's not unrealistic for the football schools to leave. The basketball schools would then keep the Big East name.

[GuyFawkes38]

Just going off of your thoughts, I would bet that the Big East football schools leave the Big East to join the revamped Big XII. That means Louisville, UC, USF, UConn, Rutgers, and WVU join up with the remnants of the Big XII, probably Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., etc. (Depending on who heads out to the Pac. Also, I think WVU gets the invite from the SEC.) There are probably less legal hurdles doing it that way then a full-on conference split between the basketball and football schools.

This also allows the basketball schools to keep the Big East name.

That looks like the best possible outcome. I'm all for that.

I feel less pessimistic now.

[BMoreX]

The Big East will just replace Syracuse and Pitt with Kansas and another school like Kansas St. There is no way the Big 12 survives.

But will the Big East be able to invite football schools now that the basketball-only schools are the majority (once Pitt and Syracuse leave)?

[THRILLHOUSE]

My fault. I keep editing my posts. And yes, I realized that the quote forecasted a positive possiblity for X.

Can the Big East just kick out the basketball schools? I think a new conference would have to be created, excluding the bball schools.

This is a mess. And I could see it ending badly for X.

Somehow, UC needs to be separated from the Big East bball schools. If that doesn't happen, there is no possible way X's situation will improve from all of this.

I see it the other way, I don't think X's situation can get worse. Either The Big East finds a way to stay together, or all the football schools scramble to other conferences or to form their own conference. If the BE stays together thats fine, X continues to put together a quality OOC schedule and dominate the A10. The NCAA tournament is still gonna include all D1 conferences. If Big East splits X aligns themselves with the BE bball schools and is in a better conference. So either X's situation basically stays the same or is improved.

Of course this is all just speculation and opinion. So many ways this could all shake out. An interesting and frustrating time in college sports.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Just going off of your thoughts, I would bet that the Big East football schools leave the Big East to join the revamped Big XII. That means Louisville, UC, USF, UConn, Rutgers, and WVU join up with the remnants of the Big XII, probably Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., etc. (Depending on who heads out to the Pac. Also, I think WVU gets the invite from the SEC.) There are probably less legal hurdles doing it that way then a full-on conference split between the basketball and football schools.

This also allows the basketball schools to keep the Big East name.

Yeah thats how I see it happening as well. It will be interesting to see what WVA does, there have been rumors of them going SEC. Also in the past couple of years there have been Rutgers to Big Ten rumors.

[xudash]

The Big East could survive, or at least delay the inevitable. If they are losing two members (and I'll believe that info to be true in the end), they could pick up other teams. They have to or they'll die; it's a question of how successful they'll be in that effort. One or more of the Big 12 teams could end up there. Memphis or one of the other C-USA teams could also get invited, and they'd be logical geographical choices too.

In the end, the Big 12 might be the sole conference to collapse this time around (which from a basketball perspective and as a Mizzou fan, I find to be a shame because I like the conference overall). The Big East could even benefit from the Big 12's implosion by picking off the scraps. Or, they both could face their ends; I think that will happen in the long run but not necessarily in this round. I hope it happens this round though. And for the Big East basketball schools, losing UC to football alignment but adding Xavier would be an overall plus.

I feel good about this because I'm presuming that everyone now understands what the end game is about. If you understand the significance of what the end game is about you'll not be surprised when the death of the Hybrid BE takes place.

The BE cannot remain a hybrid conference under any scenario now, especially with Pitt and Syracuse leaving.

What's the current score, if you will? The BE will be down 2 as of tomorrow (Pitt and Syracuse) and the Big XII is currently down 1 (A&M) with material noise surrounding OU and OSU, and with Texas kinda pivoting. They're both unstable. The BE football schools really need to move quickly to shore up, hell, to now literally create an all-sports league.

Finally, Memphis absolutely is NOT in the picture in all this. We're dealing with existing BCS schools that are trying to survive this chess match. They're not going to let other pieces on the board at this point. The ACC has made its move. The PAC XX will most likely bring in OU and OSU. The SEC has at least one to go and it will be revealed sooner than later. That could leave room for a 5th conference for now, but it will be all-sports, and it will be wondering if/when the B1G and SEC decide to fatten to 16.

[GuyFawkes38]

good points by all.

I feel much better now. This could be really good for us.

[muskienick]

I just want to make sure dash and nick are doing okay. They have been talking about this for what seems like 10 years.

What a crazy time we live in.

If Dash's Pig Heaven is anything like my being as happy as a pig in slop, then yes, DC, I am quite well (and thank you for asking).

Rather than creating my 4,379th Conference scenario for the Muskies, I think I'll just sit back and watch what happens.

I can't help but chuckle at the thought of the Bearcats possibly being left out to dry. I don't think that is likely, but it does add a couple of inches of mire to the lovely slop for my pig!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I can't help but chuckle at the thought of the Bearcats possibly being left out to dry. I don't think that is likely, but it does add a couple of inches of mire to the lovely slop for my pig!

I can't tell you how many times I've heard UC fans use the Big East card in a condescending manner.

"Dez Wells is a nice mid major player"

"Tu would be horrible in the Big East"

"You guys have a nice mid major program"

blah blah blah.

[DC Muskie]

Thanks for thinking about me DC. I'm in pig heaven over this.

If it turns out the way I believe it's evolving, we're going to end up in a nice niche with strong schools, having respected hoops programs and an ESPN that will be motivated to build reasonably strong distribution around the product.

BTW, was in DC last weekend for a family wedding. Ended up at Ray's Hell Burger in Alexandria. WOW.

I know you are having fun...your head has to be spinning.

I hope you are right though. Always enjoyed your take.

And as your experience in VA, I have to say I hardly ever venture out to the Commonwealth. Part of the reason I am single. Glad you had a good time.


If Dash's Pig Heaven is anything like my being as happy as a pig in slop, then yes, DC, I am quite well (and thank you for asking).

Rather than creating my 4,379th Conference scenario for the Muskies, I think I'll just sit back and watch what happens.

I can't help but chuckle at the thought of the Bearcats possibly being left out to dry. I don't think that is likely, but it does add a couple of inches of mire to the lovely slop for my pig!

Good to hear.

I gotta say it blows my mind that Syracuse would just say, "See ya G Town we're off to play Duke in football. That's more important then our basketball rivalry."

Although I'm sure it will continue.

I must say I can't imagine GTown will look at this and say, "So we are going to play Iowa State now?"

Of course you could say the same thing regarding South Florida.

[GuyFawkes38]

Lots of unknowns.

One thing we know for certain. UC is screwed.

[waggy]

I don't think UC is necessarily screwed. There's enough teams for a 5th conference. A lot of it depends on what the PAC 12 and Oklahoma does. I don't think Oklahoma really wants to go to the PAC 12 without Texas, and Texas really wants to hold on to the LHN. Conversely, I don't think the PAC 12 is real excited about anyone other than Oklahoma and Texas. Hard to say what's going to happen there.

I could see Texas and Notre Dame operating as football independents in the same all sports conference.

[GuyFawkes38]

I don't think UC is necessarily screwed. There's enough teams for a 5th conference. A lot of it depends on what the PAC 12 and Oklahoma does. I don't think Oklahoma really wants to go to the PAC 12 without Texas, and Texas really wants to hold on to the LHN. Conversely, I don't think the PAC 12 is real excited about anyone other than Oklahoma and Texas. Hard to say what's going to happen there.

I could see Texas and Notre Dame operating as football independents in the same all sports conference.

at the very least, they are in an uncomfortable position right now.

Pitt and Syracuse are gone. West Virginia might be gone. They don't have a home.

Gone are the days of being in a somewhat easy conference with an automatic BCS bid.

Yikes. I almost feel bad for UC.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

and they have no AD.


Some on twitter think the Big East will become a Bball only conference and will invite X and Butler...We'll see

[waggy]

To me at this point the questions boil down to how many teams each the SEC, PAC12, and ACC end up at. 12, 14 or 16?

If the PAC 12 doesn't expand, I count 14 teams "leftover". This is assuming the SEC takes either West Virginia or Missouri and stops there.

[GuyFawkes38]

If UC joins the Big12 it will be because Texas, Ok, OK state left it. I don't think a conference like that will get an automatic BCS bid.

I'm excited thinking about X in a conference with Georgetown, villanova, Marquette, etc... A tourney championship in MSG would be awesome.

But this feels sort of odd for college basketball as a whole. College basketball rivalries are being discarded so schools can be in the optimal football conferences, which is clearly different from optimal basketball conferences.

[xudash]

If UC joins the Big12 it will be because Texas, Ok, OK state left it. I don't think a conference like that will get an automatic BCS bid.

I'm excited thinking about X in a conference with Georgetown, villanova, Marquette, etc... A tourney championship in MSG would be awesome.

But this might not be good for college basketball as a whole. Sort of depressing seeing this all happen. College basketball rivalries are being discarded so schools can be in the optimal football conferences, which is clearly different from optimal basketball conferences.

I guess football is king.

Again, I'll suggest you consider the flip side.

As they go to 4x16 or even 5x14, right off the bat, you have one less automatic bid with which to contend; we'll have gone from 6 to 5 (or two less with only 4) BCS conferences.

Otherwise, some of these so-called "BCS" programs are going to get further buried in their expanded conference hierarchies, which may have the effect of making it harder to make the Dance. BCS schools that already have good basketball programs should be fine, but how do you think a school like Wake, which is reeling right now, feels about having to take the court against Pitt and Syracuse?

I hope nothing queer's up these developments. I just find it funny - maybe calming - that we're this well positioned in all this. There are some Georgetown fans and Nova fans who can only see the end of the world for their respective programs. How sad. There is no doubt that it won't be what it was for them, but it can and should be damn strong if events do push us together.

At least there mostly unanimous, along with some Marquette fans, in pinpointing Xavier as the first logical addition to their ranks.

[GuyFawkes38]

Again, I'll suggest you consider the flip side.

As they go to 4x16 or even 5x14, right off the bat, you have one less automatic bid with which to contend; we'll have gone from 6 to 5 (or two less with only 4) BCS conferences.

Otherwise, some of these so-called "BCS" programs are going to get further buried in their expanded conference hierarchies, which may have the effect of making it harder to make the Dance. BCS schools that already have good basketball programs should be fine, but how do you think a school like Wake, which is reeling right now, feels about having to take the court against Pitt and Syracuse?

I hope nothing queer's up these developments. I just find it funny - maybe calming - that we're this well positioned in all this. There are some Georgetown fans and Nova fans who can only see the end of the world for their respective programs. How sad. There is no doubt that it won't be what it was for them, but it can and should be damn strong if events do push us together.

At least there mostly unanimous, along with some Marquette fans, in pinpointing Xavier as the first logical addition to their ranks.

Definitely true.

X is in a great position for all of this. My pessimistic posts earlier on this thread were off.

It's exciting to visit the Georgetown, Nova, and Marquette boards and see them mention X as a great Big East candidate.

[xudash]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2011-09-17/acc-approves-syracuse-pittsburgh-big-east/50448806/1

[paulxu]

Dash, that's an interesting article. The biggest point in it to me is the upcoming BE TV contract negotiation.
Whose going to want a league for a long term deal that will go up to 9 with TCU, then down to 7 or 5 in 27 months or whatever. Makes no sense.
ACC was smart and moved as soon as possible, upped their buyout fee, and made themselves stronger. I bet the football BE implodes and Pitt/Syr won't even have to wait that long to move out.
Now...if only X can improve from all this football crap, I'll be really happy.

[XUOWNSUC]

I see it the other way, I don't think X's situation can get worse. The NCAA tournament is still gonna include all D1 conferences.

I think things certainly could get worse for X. What if the 4 so-called superconferences break away from the NCAA and start their own baskeball postseason tournament? That would suck.

[Masterofreality]

I think things certainly could get worse for X. What if the 4 so-called superconferences break away from the NCAA and start their own baskeball postseason tournament? That would suck.

Won't happen. Remember that CBS has paid a 11 billion dollar rights fee for the NCAA basketball tournament that goes until 2024.

That will stop any changes to the Tournament for a long-long-long time. No one wants to mess with that.

[Muskie1000]

ESPN is now reporting that the ACC is going after UConn and Rutgers...

[danaandvictory]

I see it the other way, I don't think X's situation can get worse. Either The Big East finds a way to stay together, or all the football schools scramble to other conferences or to form their own conference. If the BE stays together thats fine, X continues to put together a quality OOC schedule and dominate the A10.

My concern is that X isn't included in the shakeup and the A-10 gets appreciably worse due to other defections. For example, if the league lost, say, Temple, Charlotte, SLU, and Richmond (the first two due to football, the latter two due to regional realignmnet) in one fell swoop that would not be a welcome course of events. Sort of what we saw in the early 90s when the MCC lost Marquette and SLU and Dayton and ended up with a bunch of hyphenated schools and Wright State.

I should also say that my concern would have less to do with XU's ability to continue being a successful program and more to do with the number of poop games on the schedule.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

My concern is that X isn't included in the shakeup and the A-10 gets appreciably worse due to other defections. For example, if the league lost, say, Temple, Charlotte, SLU, and Richmond (the first two due to football, the latter two due to regional realignmnet) in one fell swoop that would not be a welcome course of events. Sort of what we saw in the early 90s when the MCC lost Marquette and SLU and Dayton and ended up with a bunch of hyphenated schools and Wright State.

I should also say that my concern would have less to do with XU's ability to continue being a successful program and more to do with the number of poop games on the schedule.

That could happen. But Xavier over the years has separated themselves from the other non football schools. I would almost bet that Bobinski drew up a backup plan last year just in case these scenarios happen and will do everything in his power to ensure that were not in a league with just lasalle, fordham, st bonny, and arkansas southwest state. Someone said on here that X and Bobinski were ready for the Big East during the previous expansion craze before UC threw a hissy fit.

The Big East seems to be imploding at the moment. UConn, Rutgers, WVU, and UL have all been mentioned as serious candidates for other conference. I don't know if football is in the foreseeable future of the Big East. If thats the case, I don't see who would be better positioned to get an invite than Xavier or Butler

[X-band '01]

Has a conference ever split? It would be a legal mess.



The WAC had 16 teams after the 1996-97 season and split in two - the cream of the crop defected to what became the Mountain West conference. It took them 4 years to get an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, although I don't think the conference was ever shut out of the tournament entirely.

It's not much of a precedent for the Big East to go on; they were all football schools, though.

[THRILLHOUSE]

My concern is that X isn't included in the shakeup and the A-10 gets appreciably worse due to other defections. For example, if the league lost, say, Temple, Charlotte, SLU, and Richmond (the first two due to football, the latter two due to regional realignmnet) in one fell swoop that would not be a welcome course of events. Sort of what we saw in the early 90s when the MCC lost Marquette and SLU and Dayton and ended up with a bunch of hyphenated schools and Wright State.

I should also say that my concern would have less to do with XU's ability to continue being a successful program and more to do with the number of poop games on the schedule.

I trust the Xavier administration, especially Bobinski, to put us in the best possible situation. Whatever happens, we will be fine.

[THRILLHOUSE]

and in some really ironic/crazy timing, the founder of the Big East, Dave Gavitt, passed away last night.

[anXUfan]

In the long run, I wonder how this continued consolidation of money and power can be good for schools like Xavier.

[GuyFawkes38]

It really all depends on UC.

Worst case scenario for X.

UC doesn't have much cash. They cant afford to jump into a new conference with the remnant football schools from the Big12. They actually do remain committed to the Big East. The Big East adds some subpar football programs like Houston to increase the number of football schools. UC remains in a Big East conference with catholic bball schools.

As a result, X can't enter the Big East.

For X to benefit from this all, somehow UC is going to have to make the jump somewhere.

[Cat's Bird Seat]

Yesterday's announcement (leak) that Pitt and 'Cuse were new members of the ACC is another chapter in the "what conference expands/decreases next" widely read book.
The Big East is now at 14 members, and basketball scheduling-wise, it's perfect .... but losing two football playing schools (one really as TCU comes into the room next summer), they need another football playing school to keep their BCS slot.

Hello Charlotte.

They now have D-1 football, and are geographically a perfect fit. State school, huge enrollment, easy travel to and from with it being a hub for east coast travel.
great TV market.

Pick me, please pick me .... that is the cry from Waco, TX and Ken Starr (remember him) Baylor's President. Their reasoning .... "we make a perfect travelingt partner with TCU." By that 'o0l Kenny Starr is saying, when you come to play TCU in basketball, you can just bus down a couple of hours of "dry" Waco.

University of Houston

After Charlotte, a great pick. They, much better than Wacky Waco Baylor .... (remember, nobody goes to Baylor. Sent there, yes, but not by choice do they attend) ... and the Big E gets the fourth largest TV market in the country. UH is spending $30 million renovating its area, and $100 million expanding its football stadium.

But, both Baylor and UH are waiting to see what happens at Norman OK tomorrow and Austin, Tx a few days after that.

If OU and OSU (that's the franchise owned and operated by T. Boone Pickens da erl guy) opt for the PAC whatever, then there is no longer a Big 12 .... unless the owner and operator of the University of Texas lures BYU and the Air Force into coming aboard ... and I don't think that will happen because it makes no sense to walk into the Big 12 minefield with Missouri spooning the SEC, and the AFA is way above the academic admissions of Big 12 members.

UT bossman DeLoss Dodds got greedy, lied to other members a year ago, and now his legacy will by the end of the Big 12. They may well have to go to the PAC Whatever.

Bottom line .... 'Cuse and Pitt leaving has absolutely no effect on Xavier ever being a Big E member. UC would never allow it. Period. So, the A-10 needs another member if Charlotte is leaving.

Who?

I favor Sienna, or Old Dominion. Both would be strong additions. And BTW, no, the A-10 is not ever going to get rid of Fordham.

Whatcha think?

[waggy]

Whatcha think?

Your post is crap.

[xubrew]

ESPN is now reporting that the ACC is going after UConn and Rutgers...

I believe they're right behind them. Very soon I think we'll UConn, Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse will all announce they are leaving for the ACC. From a fan's perspective, I really wish it was West Virginia. I think it would be great to see WVU with natural rivals Pitt, Virginia Tech, Virginia and Maryland all in one conference division, while at the same time having UNC, Duke, Wake and NC State in another division, but for whatever reason they don't appear to be targeting WVU.

Oklahoma State and Oklahoma appear to be looking Pac Twelve. Maybe Texas Tech as well....maybe.

With the ACC looking to go out to sixteen, and strategically lock up most of the east coast including NYC (Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and UConn aren't directly in NYC, but the four of them together will deliver that market), to me, that appears to be a strategic plan of a conference that is united in its thinking. Suddenly, I don't think Florida State and Clemson are looking to bolt for the SEC.

So...who's out in the cold here??

West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Baylor, Iowa State, TCU. (possibly Texas Tech).

Mizzou may end up in the SEC or Big Ten, but...who knows??

Call me crazy, but that league doesn't really smell all that bad.

WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati (at least lately), Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri are familiar with the NCAA Tournament and top 25 in basketball. That's over half the league. Baylor is trending up in both football and basketball. It isn't the greatest football conference in the world, but it isn't the worst either. WVU, Baylor (albiet barely), TCU and South Florida are all in the rankings. Not top ten, but top 25. Mizzou ventures there as well. When you have five teams that are in the top 25, that's not bad.

If Texas Tech sticks around, they could look into adding a team like Memphis and going out to twelve schools with a North and South division. That would strengthen the basketball side of things even more, and at least give the league a recruiting footprint into western Tennessee/Eastern Arkansas for football.

Is that a powerhouse SEC/ACC type league?? No, probably not. Is it a doomed league, though?? I don't think so at all. That's actually a pretty damn good league. Not bad for a bunch of schools who would be "left out in the cold."

[XUOWNSUC]

Won't happen. Remember that CBS has paid a 11 billion dollar rights fee for the NCAA basketball tournament that goes until 2024.

That will stop any changes to the Tournament for a long-long-long time. No one wants to mess with that.

You don't think CBS could get out of that contract if the "super-conferences" left the NCAA? I think they could. They could argue that the NCAA isn't the same NCAA that signed the 11 billion contract with them. Legal-wise, I have no idea what they would have to do in court to get out of the contract. But I suspect it would be possible.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

New reports are saying

"Texas to pac 12"

http://texas.247sports.com/Article/Breaking-Source-Texas-to-Pac-12-40476

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/18/report-texas-to-pac-12-almost-certain/

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2011/09/18/official_potent.html

[XUFan09]

I believe they're right behind them. Very soon I think we'll UConn, Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse will all announce they are leaving for the ACC. From a fan's perspective, I really wish it was West Virginia. I think it would be great to see WVU with natural rivals Pitt, Virginia Tech, Virginia and Maryland all in one conference division, while at the same time having UNC, Duke, Wake and NC State in another division, but for whatever reason they don't appear to be targeting WVU.

Oklahoma State and Oklahoma appear to be looking Pac Twelve. Maybe Texas Tech as well....maybe.

With the ACC looking to go out to sixteen, and strategically lock up most of the east coast including NYC (Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and UConn aren't directly in NYC, but the four of them together will deliver that market), to me, that appears to be a strategic plan of a conference that is united in its thinking. Suddenly, I don't think Florida State and Clemson are looking to bolt for the SEC.

So...who's out in the cold here??

West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Baylor, Iowa State, TCU. (possibly Texas Tech).

Mizzou may end up in the SEC or Big Ten, but...who knows??

Call me crazy, but that league doesn't really smell all that bad.

WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati (at least lately), Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri are familiar with the NCAA Tournament and top 25 in basketball. That's over half the league. Baylor is trending up in both football and basketball. It isn't the greatest football conference in the world, but it isn't the worst either. WVU, Baylor (albiet barely), TCU and South Florida are all in the rankings. Not top ten, but top 25. Mizzou ventures there as well. When you have five teams that are in the top 25, that's not bad.

If Texas Tech sticks around, they could look into adding a team like Memphis and going out to twelve schools with a North and South division. That would strengthen the basketball side of things even more, and at least give the league a recruiting footprint into western Tennessee/Eastern Arkansas for football.

Is that a powerhouse SEC/ACC type league?? No, probably not. Is it a doomed league, though?? I don't think so at all. That's actually a pretty damn good league. Not bad for a bunch of schools who would be "left out in the cold."

I think academics explain why ACC wasn't interested in WVU. Pretty sure that could hurt any potential B10 bid for them too.

That doesn't sound like a bad conference at all. I count five B12 teams, excluding Texas Tech, but only four BE teams (TCU doesn't count, I don't think). That would have to be BE teams to the B12 instead of the other way around, if they wanted to have an automatic bid for the first few years.

However, would all these schools want to commit to this group of teams/ It doesn't seem very stable. There have been speculation of Mizzou and/or WVU heading to the SEC. Also, I think I heard some talk (don't know how valid it is for this year) of maybe Mizzou heading to the B10, which would make sense in terms of markets, academics, and geography.

[Xavgrad08]

With these super conferences forming it will be interesting to see how the conference schedules are structured in B ball. Will there be an unbalanced schedule or will conferences play a round robin and do away with the non conference schedule?

[xudash]

You don't think CBS could get out of that contract if the "super-conferences" left the NCAA? I think they could. They could argue that the NCAA isn't the same NCAA that signed the 11 billion contract with them. Legal-wise, I have no idea what they would have to do in court to get out of the contract. But I suspect it would be possible.

Well, do you honestly believe that the break away group will be looking at a fresh $11 billion from CBS and its broadcast partners, or $11 billion from any broadcast group, for that matter? If you believe that, I have some moist land down here in Florida that you may be interested in.

[GoMuskies]

Can't imagine the ACC will be interested in Rutgers. What's the point of adding Rutgers for them if they already have Syracuse, Pitt and UConn?

[xudash]

Can't imagine the ACC will be interested in Rutgers. What's the point of adding Rutgers for them if they already have Syracuse, Pitt and UConn?

Two reasons - I"m not suggesting that they're good ones - could be:

1. Box out the B1G from picking them up; and

2. Provide BC some natural rivals, given that BC seems to be rotting on the ACC vine.

[whitesox]

If Texas is going to the Pac 10, my guess is that they are probably being pressured to stick with Texas Tech. Pac 10 over Big 10 doesn't make a ton of sense otherwise for them, in my opinion (except maybe to also stick with Oklahoma, but I doubt they'd decide based on that).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If Texas is going to the Pac 10, my guess is that they are probably being pressured to stick with Texas Tech. Pac 10 over Big 10 doesn't make a ton of sense otherwise for them, in my opinion (except maybe to also stick with Oklahoma, but I doubt they'd decide based on that).

The Oklahomas and now Texas are 'solely focused on the pac 16'.

Tech would most likely join Texas

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Sources telling Orangebloods.com Texas is focusing solely right now on "Pac-16." ... bit.ly/n3BVJd #hookem #longhorns #big12

[xubrew]

I think academics explain why ACC wasn't interested in WVU. Pretty sure that could hurt any potential B10 bid for them too.

That doesn't sound like a bad conference at all. I count five B12 teams, excluding Texas Tech, but only four BE teams (TCU doesn't count, I don't think). That would have to be BE teams to the B12 instead of the other way around, if they wanted to have an automatic bid for the first few years.

However, would all these schools want to commit to this group of teams/ It doesn't seem very stable. There have been speculation of Mizzou and/or WVU heading to the SEC. Also, I think I heard some talk (don't know how valid it is for this year) of maybe Mizzou heading to the B10, which would make sense in terms of markets, academics, and geography.

You're probably right about the academics. I also think they're looking at sewing up TV markets all along the east coast.

As far as the automatic bids go, the league would get that either way under the new rules. Up until recently (and by that I mean within the past six months or so) the rule was that in order to be an automatic qualifier a conference needed six teams that had been affiliated with each other for five years. Now the rule is a league needs seven teams who have been full div1 members for eight years. In other words, if for whatever reason Xavier, Butler, Western Kentucky, Murray State, Cincinnati, Creighton and Miami all decided to form their own conference it would now get an automatic bid right away.


With these super conferences forming it will be interesting to see how the conference schedules are structured in B ball. Will there be an unbalanced schedule or will conferences play a round robin and do away with the non conference schedule?

two possible formats for a sixteen team league include two divisions of eight, where you play everyone in your division home and home, and one team from the other division home and home every year. The team in the other division would be your mirror from the previous year. In other words, if you finished 4th in the standings, you'd play the team that finish forth in the other division. This would be sixteen total games

Another is four divisions of four where you play the other three teams in your division home and home, and everyone else in the conference once. This would be eighteen total games.

Then there is always the Big East, which just has one division of sixteen teams and an unbalanced schedule of eighteen games.


Can't imagine the ACC will be interested in Rutgers. What's the point of adding Rutgers for them if they already have Syracuse, Pitt and UConn?

I don't really know the reasons why they're interested in Rutgers. I've just heard rumors that they are...and at this point in time I believe them.

[LA Muskie]

I think academics explain why ACC wasn't interested in WVU. Pretty sure that could hurt any potential B10 bid for them too.

That doesn't sound like a bad conference at all. I count five B12 teams, excluding Texas Tech, but only four BE teams (TCU doesn't count, I don't think). That would have to be BE teams to the B12 instead of the other way around, if they wanted to have an automatic bid for the first few years.

However, would all these schools want to commit to this group of teams/ It doesn't seem very stable. There have been speculation of Mizzou and/or WVU heading to the SEC. Also, I think I heard some talk (don't know how valid it is for this year) of maybe Mizzou heading to the B10, which would make sense in terms of markets, academics, and geography.

I suspect a combined Big 12/Big East remnant conference would get an auto-bid waiver. Indeed it may well be a condition of settlement of the lawsuits we almost assuredly will see from those left holding the bags.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Add West Virginia to the SEC

AKrumpEerSports Anthony Krumpach
EerSports.com reported earlier that WVU appears to have sent paperwork to the SEC, all signs point to WVU being accepted once A&M is settled

[xudash]

I suspect a combined Big 12/Big East remnant conference would get an auto-bid waiver. Indeed it may well be a condition of settlement of the lawsuits we almost assuredly will see from those left holding the bags.

Good point and I agree.

I also see that as ND's last sandbox for parking its Olympic Sports in a "BCS" conference, assuming those schools would agree to let ND in without ND bringing its football into it as well (which they wouldn't).

Otherwise, assuming that it is clear that this whole thing truly is heading towards 4x16 now, ND may go ahead and bite the bullet and join B1G. Rumors are out there, suggesting a proposal involving Texas and ND to B1G have been floated.

[xubrew]

I suspect a combined Big 12/Big East remnant conference would get an auto-bid waiver. Indeed it may well be a condition of settlement of the lawsuits we almost assuredly will see from those left holding the bags.

They would no longer need any sort of waiver. It is different than it was before. If they have seven teams who have been full div1 members for eight years, they're good to go.

WVU to the SEC is quite amusing. Everything that is categorically SEC I don't really see matching with West Virginia. It's a longer trip for an RV, the girls don't wear dresses to the games, and it is oftentimes below sixty degrees. I live in the south, and you just don't see many people showing up to the games in coal mining hats.

I think this will result in a dual case of culture shock.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

To sum up all the upcoming moves (allegedly), we have:

Pac 16 - Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State joining. 4 pods will be made. (Washington/Washington State/Oregon/Oregon State, Stanford/Cal/USC/UCLA, Arizona/Arizona State/Colorado/Utah, Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State)

SEC - WVU, A&M

ACC - Syracuse, Pitt

With the ACC expressing interest in Rutgers and Uconn, I think its pretty safe to say they will be joining soon...

It's looking slim that Louisville, Cincy, and USF stay in the conference. They may branch out with other former Big 12 members or maybe fall into a new conference with the likes of Memphis/UCF/FIU etc. Who knows. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Big East focuses solely on basketball. I'm sure Bobinski is all over this.

[X-band '01]

They would no longer need any sort of waiver. It is different than it was before. If they have seven teams who have been full div1 members for eight years, they're good to go.

WVU to the SEC is quite amusing. Everything that is categorically SEC I don't really see matching with West Virginia. It's a longer trip for an RV, the girls don't wear dresses to the games, and it is oftentimes below sixty degrees. I live in the south, and you just don't see many people showing up to the games in coal mining hats.

I think this will result in a dual case of culture shock.

What stereotypes that get attached to West Virginia wouldn't apply to Kentucky fans? Let's not pretend that Lexington has tons of 70-degree weather in November.

[xubrew]

What stereotypes that get attached to West Virginia wouldn't apply to Kentucky fans? Let's not pretend that Lexington has tons of 70-degree weather in November.

I live in Alabama, where people cheerfully deny that Kentucky and Vanderbilt are members of the conference...

[XUOWNSUC]

Well, do you honestly believe that the break away group will be looking at a fresh $11 billion from CBS and its broadcast partners, or $11 billion from any broadcast group, for that matter? If you believe that, I have some moist land down here in Florida that you may be interested in.


I'm not sure what you mean - that CBS wouldn't want to offer a basketball tv contract to a 4 "super-conference" organization separate from the NCAA?

Obviously, I have no idea what is going to happen, but I would think the 4 "super-conference" set-up could re-negotiate a way better pay-off in terms of football TV contracts especially if they set up some sort of playoff system.

Who knows though? I certainly don't. I'm just bracing for the worst (XU getting screwed somehow).

[X-band '01]

I can't deny that - basketball season in Alabama is better known as the signing period. Baseball season is simply called spring practice.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I can't deny that - basketball season in Alabama is better known as the signing period. Baseball season is simply called spring practice.

I don't even want to know what happens if they schedule a Nascar event at the same time as an Auburn or Alabama college football game. Children will cry. That's for sure

[xubrew]

4 "super-conference"

I'm not sure what you mean - that CBS wouldn't want to offer a basketball tv contract to a 4 "super-conference" organization separate from the NCAA?

Obviously, I have no idea what is going to happen, but I would think the 4 "super-conference" set-up could re-negotiate a way better pay-off in terms of football TV contracts especially if they set up some sort of playoff system.

Who knows though? I certainly don't. I'm just bracing for the worst (XU getting screwed somehow).

Any school or group of schools could leave the NCAA at any time. It is certainly possible that they'll look to leave. I just think it's highly unlikely.

For starters, something like that would require a collective mindset and action plan. NO such collective mindset exists right now. The major programs are so discombobulated in what direction that they want to go that I don't think they'll venture out on their own to leave the NCAA.

Besides, it wouldn't really accomplish anything. There is this belief that the major programs want to get away from the NCAA and all of its control. The reality is that the major programs are the reason the NCAA has so much control. They are the ones that are always pushing for reform. the MAC and OVC are not out there campaigning for restrictions on recruiting, restrictions on oversigning, tougher initial eligibility standards, and the end of the one-year renewable scholarships. The Pac Twelve, ACC, Big Ten and SEC are. In reality, the biggest programs are also by far the biggest whistle blowers. So, they really wouldn't be getting away from anything if they did decide to leave.

If they want to leave so they can pay the players, they are free to do so. The thing is, they don't want to. Why would they want to?? That would cost more money.

They could leave and have no recruiting restrictions whatsoever. The thing is, they're the ones that want the recruiting restrictions.

They could leave and have no academic ineligibility whatsoever other than that they need to be enrolled in school....and perhaps not even that. The thing is, they're the ones that continually want to raise the academic standards.

So, why would they want to leave?? I can't think of a single reason. On top of that, I haven't heard anything or seen a single indication that they are looking to leave the NCAA, and that is the kind of thing that everyone would notice.

Another big reason many seem to think those schools will want to leave is so they won't have to share their revenue. The thing is, they don't have to share their revenue now, at least not in regards to their TV contracts and ticket sales, which I would guess is well over 90% of it.

They're not leaving the NCAA. I'm almost certain of that. They can if they want to, but I seriously doubt they have any plans or desires to.

[THRILLHOUSE]

They're not leaving the NCAA. I'm almost certain of that. They can if they want to, but I seriously doubt they have any plans or desires to.

Cosign.

And as Jimmy said above, Bobinski is all over this. Bobinski (along with the rest of the X administration) is why I am not worried right now.

[xubrew]

I was going to add that I think that if any conference or group of schools is looking to leave, it's the SWAC. I don't think they will, but every now and then there is some sort of feeler or indicator that they throw out. The major conferences...not so much. Actually, not at all. I think it is something that is speculated about by writers and what not, but in reality is extremely unlikely to happen.

[MuskieCinci]

This has sure been entertaining and exciting to think about. The leftover Big East football and Big Twelve schools will probably have to join together and create a new conference. I wonder what it will be called or if they'll just try to call it the Big Twelve.

[xubrew]

This has sure been entertaining and exciting to think about. The leftover Big East football and Big Twelve schools will probably have to join together and create a new conference. I wonder what it will be called or if they'll just try to call it the Big Twelve.

I've often thought about that as well.

We were thinking something along the lines of the Football Uninvited Conference....

....but then couldn't think of anything that would be good for the letter K.



I'm stuck at work and bored, which is guaranteed to increase my posting volume.

[STL_XUfan]

This has sure been entertaining and exciting to think about. The leftover Big East football and Big Twelve schools will probably have to join together and create a new conference. I wonder what it will be called or if they'll just try to call it the Big Twelve.

If Oklahoma, OSU, and Texas do leave on monday it will be interesting to see what happens with buyouts. How long will the remaining Big 12 schools need to hang around to ensure they get their big fat checks from A&M, UT, TT, OSU, and OU. Then again, if history is any indicator Texas will somehow convince the remaining schools to actually right Texas a check as a going away gift to the Pac XX.

[danaandvictory]

And as Jimmy said above, Bobinski is all over this. Bobinski (along with the rest of the X administration) is why I am not worried right now.

I should clarify my position, I guess. I have implicit trust in the AD and the XU administration to place XU in the best possible position when the dominoes start falling. The problem is that -- because this is literally all football-driven -- I'm not 100% sold that the options available are going to be particularly appetizing. Especially when you throw the UC whammy into the mix.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I should clarify my position, I guess. I have implicit trust in the AD and the XU administration to place XU in the best possible position when the dominoes start falling. The problem is that -- because this is literally all football-driven -- I'm not 100% sold that the options available are going to be particularly appetizing. Especially when you throw the UC whammy into the mix.

I just think its most likely Big East football is dead. Especially if the rumors/speculation of WVA to SEC and UConn to ACC are true. If the remaining BE football schools decide to stick together, yeah we are probably left out, but I just don't think they stick together. We shall see...

[GoMuskies]

Louisville actually has the best athletic program in the Big East (if you believe the Sears Cup standings and don't count Notre Dame since they're not a full member). And they're going to be left out in the cold. Crazy.

Maybe Xavier and Louisville will end up in the same basketball conference in some crazy thrown together league.

[BBC 08]

Louisville actually has the best athletic program in the Big East (if you believe the Sears Cup standings and don't count Notre Dame since they're not a full member). And they're going to be left out in the cold. Crazy.

Maybe Xavier and Louisville will end up in the same basketball conference in some crazy thrown together league.

Crawford from the CJ suggested just that about X and Louisville.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I just think its most likely Big East football is dead. Especially if the rumors/speculation of WVA to SEC and UConn to ACC are true. If the remaining BE football schools decide to stick together, yeah we are probably left out, but I just don't think they stick together. We shall see...

I'm in agreement with you. I think the Big East will cut their losses and focus on basketball


I should clarify my position, I guess. I have implicit trust in the AD and the XU administration to place XU in the best possible position when the dominoes start falling. The problem is that -- because this is literally all football-driven -- I'm not 100% sold that the options available are going to be particularly appetizing. Especially when you throw the UC whammy into the mix.

On the plus side, I think X has put itself in the position of one of the most desired non football school over the years. If the big east or possibly a new conference east of the Mississippi is looking for basketball only members, X would probably be one of the first they call.

But you're right. We have to wait until football is taken care of first.

[HuskyMuskie]

I've been following this pretty well and what not, but some of these tidbits don't make sense to me. How in the hell could Louisville and X end up in the same conference?

Here is a question, and I don't have the SLIGHTEST clue how this stuff works, so do me the favor of not ripping me apart once I ask it, BUT:

Could any of this realignment either encourage that Xavier give birth to a football program? I know that it hemorrhaged money when we had it, but could any of this jumping around maybe put that in the works? Somebody with some education on the topic--please weigh in.

One thing that is pretty cool though: UC fans that have long used the "Big East" excuses and barbed comments towards X might be pushed out, and we will bump elbows with them as we come strutting in.

[GoMuskies]

Could any of this realignment either encourage that Xavier give birth to a football program?

No. If you could have seen this coming 20 years ago, sure. But Xavier is WAY too late to that party.

And it probably would have dragged down the basketball program in the meantime anyway. It's really for the best that Xavier doesn't play football.

[xudash]

No. If you could have seen this coming 20 years ago, sure. But Xavier is WAY too late to that party.

And it probably would have dragged down the basketball program in the meantime anyway. It's really for the best that Xavier doesn't play football.

Agreed. You only need look how Villanova just missed the boat to understand what any program would face if it considered taking a football program to a FBS/BCS level.

[waggy]

The thing I'm wondering is if we do get 4x16, that is perfect for each conference to send 2 teams to one of the 4 major bowls, and those bowls becoming the quarterfinals to a championship. BUT would mean CUSA, MWC, etc, etc have Zero access to the championship? That seems where this is heading.

[XULucho27]

The thing I'm wondering is if we do get 4x16, that is perfect for each conference to send 2 teams to one of the 4 major bowls, and those bowls becoming the quarterfinals to a championship. BUT would mean CUSA, MWC, etc, etc have Zero access to the championship? That seems where this is heading.

Wouldn't that effectively do away with the need for conference championship games? Each major conference would be able to just send it's champion and the runner up leaving no real incentive for a conference championship game. I hope they don't favor a move in this direction since I tend to really enjoy conference championship week/games.

[waggy]

Wouldn't that effectively do away with the need for conference championship games? Each major conference would be able to just send it's champion and the runner up leaving no real incentive for a conference championship game. I hope they don't favor a move in this direction since I tend to really enjoy conference championship week/games.

No idea. Just kinda throwing it out there, but you make a good point. If these conferences have 4 divisions of 4, you're looking at playoffs just to determine the conference champ!

[XUOWNSUC]

I love how all of this is going down and uc is caught with their pants down having no AD replacement for Mike Thomas.

[PM Thor]

Wouldn't that effectively do away with the need for conference championship games? Each major conference would be able to just send it's champion and the runner up leaving no real incentive for a conference championship game. I hope they don't favor a move in this direction since I tend to really enjoy conference championship week/games.

This scenario would actually favor the playoff system because it would shorten the season by one game and leave that week open to first round playoff games.

And I hope that UC gets stuck out in the cold, forming a league with dayton and some directional schools.

I HATE dayton.

[XUFan09]

My ideal scenario is Xavier in a major conference and UC in a mid-major conference a couple years from now. That would be an awesome turn of events. If things just stay the same in the A10 though, that would be fine too (though I really hope Temple doesn't eventually leave in that case).

I asked on the Rivals board too, but what is the time period between committing to a new conference and actually leaving the A10. I doubt it's 27 months like the Big East but was just curious as to what timeline was set in the conference bylaws.

[X-band '01]

Louisville actually has the best athletic program in the Big East (if you believe the Sears Cup standings and don't count Notre Dame since they're not a full member). And they're going to be left out in the cold. Crazy.

Maybe Xavier and Louisville will end up in the same basketball conference in some crazy thrown together league.

In reality, Louisville (and, for that matter, UC) don't have the TV markets that the networks crave. Neither school has the academic profiles that Pitt or Syracuse have, although I think academics are just a convenient excuse that the presidents use to justify their moves. It also explains why schools like Rutgers are candidates for expansion yet schools like Kansas are begging for scraps at this point. If the scraps of the Big 12 and the Big East football schools merge, I don't think UC fans will complain about having Louisville and Kansas on their schedule.


Agreed. You only need look how Villanova just missed the boat to understand what any program would face if it considered taking a football program to a FBS/BCS level.

Villanova did the right thing by not upgrading; imagine the firestorm had they decided to join the sinking ship known as Big East football. They're very competitive at the I-AA level. UMass is going to be joining the MAC for football soon; the A-10 has to begin preparing for Temple and UMass to leave should a conference like C-USA look to expand or split themselves (i.e. a watered down Southwest Conference comes out).

[MCXU]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/19/2011-09-19_big_east_schools_eye_split.html?r=sports


"The athletic directors of St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence, DePaul, Marquette and Notre Dame have scheduled a teleconference Monday to discuss the league's ever-changing status. The move follows the defections of Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the ACC, with the prospect of more losses if the SEC targets West Virginia, the ACC absorbs Connecticut and perhaps Rutgers, and TCU reconsiders its decision to join this BCS conference in 2012.

The instability has created the growing possibility that the basketball-only schools could seek a split from the football-playing schools in this massive 17-team league and put the wheels in motion to form their own Catholic league, hoping they have enough clout to negotiate a decent TV deal with ESPN."
Not sure who this Dick Weiss is but this is the first if seen of this meeting today.

[MCXU]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/critical_time_NIq3aIbeZaGPHOk81jTKZL

Sources at St. John's and Seton Hall said the scenario of the non-football playing schools returning to their roots has been discussed over the past year.

[MCXU]

One more, for now...

http://www.nj.com/setonhall/index.ssf/2011/09/losing_syracuse_and_pitt_is_de.html

The traditional Catholic universities — Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, DePaul, St. John’s and Providence — could be left in limbo if the league begins breaking apart along football lines. However two people with knowledge of those schools’ line of thinking said that the Catholic universities would stick together to hold the league intact and potentially reform as a basketball-only conference. The individuals, who requested anonymity because they did not want to speak publicly for the other universities, said that they could foresee adding other high-profile, basketball-only programs to round out the league.
One person said “14 is probably the right number” in terms of a basketball-only conference.

The thing that strikes me during this conference realignment is that it is easier to add a team than to kick a team out. If this new league does come to be I hope they would be very selective in who to invite. 9 may be the best number to start with. You can always add more later and only those who add true value to the league.

[X-band '01]

Ah, who am I kidding? UC fans look like they're jumping on the panic button now:

BigEastBBS - UC Board (http://ncaabbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=404)

[paulxu]

Dayton has finished in the top 6 in the A-10 only once in the last 6 years.
A lot of historical ties are being dropped these days (founding members of Big E go to ACC).

I'd like to be in an expanded Big E basketball conference where Dayton was a buy game.

[paulxu]

This paragraph from an ESPN article may define hubris.

The University of Texas regents are set to meet Monday to discuss the future of the Big 12. The meeting will come on the same day that University of Oklahoma regents are meeting on the topic of conference affiliation.

It's no wonder A&M left.

[waggy]

Not sure who this Dick Weiss is but this is the first if seen of this meeting today.

Doubt he is connected as he once was, but many many years ago when NYC was the center of the bball world he was one of the top reporters. I'd consider this report accurate definitely, especially considering the schools involved.

[dc_x]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/19/2011-09-19_big_east_schools_eye_split.html?r=sports


"The athletic directors of St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence, DePaul, Marquette and Notre Dame have scheduled a teleconference Monday to discuss the league's ever-changing status. The move follows the defections of Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the ACC, with the prospect of more losses if the SEC targets West Virginia, the ACC absorbs Connecticut and perhaps Rutgers, and TCU reconsiders its decision to join this BCS conference in 2012.

The instability has created the growing possibility that the basketball-only schools could seek a split from the football-playing schools in this massive 17-team league and put the wheels in motion to form their own Catholic league, hoping they have enough clout to negotiate a decent TV deal with ESPN."
Not sure who this Dick Weiss is but this is the first if seen of this meeting today.

It's interesting to see that ND is part of that group. I think a basketball-only Big East needs Notre Dame to be appealing to ESPN. If ND heads to the Big 10, then I think the basketball-only league eventually ends up looking like the current A10.

[waggy]

It's interesting to see that ND is part of that group. I think a basketball-only Big East needs Notre Dame to be appealing to ESPN. If ND heads to the Big 10, then I think the basketball-only league eventually ends up looking like the current A10.

If ND were involved for just 2 or 3 years before heading off it would help.

[GoMuskies]

Vuillanova and Georgetown aren't just going to drop off the map. Maybe Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and St. Johns (DePaul would have to be on the map to drop off), but not Villanova and Georgetown. So I wouldn't worry about that.

[paulxu]

Just for the heck of it, on the A-10 board I looked at recent conference history for the A-10 since it went to 14 teams six years ago. Here are the results, showing the teams who finished in the top 6 of our league, and (how many times) they did:

Xavier (5)
Temple (4)
Richmond (4)
St. Joes (4)
Rhode Island (4)
George Wash (3)
Charlotte (3)
Fordham (2)
LaSalle (2)
St. Louis (2)
Mass (2)
Duquesne (2)
Dayton (1)

* Totals = 38 as one year had 3-way tie for 6th place

When you look at the Big East during that same time period for the same results, here are the Basketball-only school results. All other top 6 finishes were by football schools headed out of the conference at this point.

Marquette (5)
Georgetown (3)
Villanova (3)
St John's (1)

The better and more consistent top finishers in the Big East are the football schools who are bailing. If the 7 schools left (assuming ND goes) were to add some BBall teams from our conference, you might look at consistent performers...along with Butler, Creighton, etc.