Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[UCGRAD4X]

Yeah, This is not over by a long shot and may take a couple of years to settle out.

[xudash]

Yeah, This is not over by a long shot and may take a couple of years to settle out.

PART ONE

It will be rather fascinating to watch it play out from here.

It really feels like the train is going to make one or two more material stops and that will be it, with any "stop" being defined as "is your program worth about $100 million in media rights per year or not?" If that isn't the precise question, then the question would probably still be about "would your program, if added to one of two behemoth conferences, create enough critical value and content, and would it enable the right structure for those conferences to get to those types of media payouts while otherwise putting up a wall around what it means to be big in big time college football?"

Think about what has transpired up till now from when the P6 came together and the BCS ruled the day. Increased media rights opportunities eventually came through aggregation, and so the Big East with football was put on the sacrificial altar so that the ACC could expand. Poof. We end up with the P5, the AAC and everyone else. Along the way comes the playoff format to replace the BCS. The SEC, having already pulled in A&M and MIZZOU, finally see an opening to take TEXAS and OKLAHOMA. Now the B1G responds, and in a material way with respect to "who cares about geography" by pulling in USC and UCLA, causing a game, set match feel to all this. Seriously, the train - consolidation in football at the highest level – obviously is running out of viable stops.

There are presently approximately 125 FBS schools. It had been the P5 and the so-called Group of 5. It's going to become the P2, 2 diminished wannabes and everyone else who stick around, assuming there is something for which to stick around - assuming the so called FBS is still a thing.

[xudash]

PART TWO

The Big East's potential expansion candidate opportunities will reside in the 2 diminished wannabes category. Which programs might become candidates for the Big East? That isn't too hard to figure out on paper. Ask a few simple questions:

1. Are you a current so called P5 member?
2. Are you a private school?
3. Is your enrollment south of 20k students?
4. Is your basketball program important to you at all?

The AD of Wake Forest and the AD of Syracuse, to name just 2, would answer "yes" to those questions.

So, what? They may be quietly pondering the predicament now, but until things break with respect to the ACC and its existing media agreement, which throws off about $34 million per school, they know they have a stay of execution.

Now think about that for a moment, especially if you are Florida State, Clemson, UNC or ???. $34 million per year per school for another decade while your competition is raking in about $100 million on the same basis. That is just brutal - GOR or no GOR.
IF the legion of attorneys and certain school presidents and their athletic directors find a way to take a hammer to the existing ACC media arrangement sooner than later, then things will get interesting.

If you are Wake or Syracuse, for example, and your athletic department goes from $34 million per year in media rights payouts to, say $15 million per year, you probably have a tough decision to make:

- Stay in an all sports conference and pretend your relevant, assuming you find a way to do that with an approximate $20 million gap in your existing funding.

- Consider what UCONN did: move to the Big East, where the annual media payout may recompute to $10 million per year per program, and run your football program as an independent, monetizing its football content in whatever manner possible to maybe make $5 million or more from it, thereby ending up in a better basketball situation (i.e. let's say most likely Duke is a pivot point in all this, but you have to believe that Chapel Hill and UVA will be gone to the B1G as soon as things break away; ACC basketball will take a material hit in some manner).

- A $20 million gap is a freaking $20 million gap: maybe you drop down. You’re a private school - you don't have gobs of students to suck student fees from for a football program subsidy. Chances are pretty good that certain people on campus aren't going to want endowment related funds to cover the shortfall. That is why small and private isn't a good place to be for all this right now.

At the end of the day, there were no real P6 and P5; there were no 65 teams that played on an equal footing. Alabama and the SEC Commissioner value Vandy for what it brings in academic image to the SEC. Ohio State and Michigan don't truly see Rutgers and Indiana as peers in all this.

So, we move forward, morphing unabashedly into semi-pro football that has collegiate branding by virtue of tethers to these huge schools while the notion of student-athlete completely loses its veneer. Add in the N I L and consider the type of school that can best play in that space, regardless of what it becomes.

Things must still break the right way, but I see all this as potentially being very beneficial to the Big East and Xavier, particularly if the ACC ends up shattered for purposes of football. I agree that it will still take some time to settle out. But any expansion that comes along for the Big East down the road will most likely come from better brands and certainly not from the A10.

All this makes me chuckle when it comes to VD and that delusional fan bases' belief that they should be in the Big East. Then again, those poor bastards probably still believe that our endowment is under $200 million. Fat, drunk, stupid AND DELUSIONAL is no way to go through life.

At any rate, we sit back and watch it develop, knowing that the Big East is in a strong position and therefore well poised to be patient. And we believe that, Xavier with Sean at the helm, will be back, and beyond.

[paulxu]

I think Duke should join the Big East.

[xudash]

I think Duke should join the Big East.

I couldn’t agree more, Paul.

They’re right there in jeopardy with Wake, Syracuse, and BC.

https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2022/7/4/23194591/happy-independence-day-clemson-2022-schedule-clemson-to-sec

[XUBison]

I think Duke should join the Big East.

This is a terrific post. Really, well done.

[paulxu]

Actually I'd hate to lose the round robin. But if you're going to trash it, make it mean something.

[bjf123]

Actually I'd hate to lose the round robin. But if you're going to trash it, make it mean something.

What he said!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xudash]

I love the round robin. I love the way that the Big East is presently configured.

It may be that basketball is different enough from football to where the size of a conference really doesn’t matter.

What will drive expansion, if it occurs at all, is what happens with schools that become available and how attractive they are with respect to media rights increases.

Were Duke to become available in basketball as a result of what happens in football, and if the BE payout per school were to adjust the way I think it could with them included, then it certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibility that they could join us.

When it is all said and done, I either want to see us stick to the existing 11 teams, especially if the current Big East contract increases, or only expand if we expand up; if we do not expand by pulling in mid majors.

[sirthought]

How many football schools would the Big East need to add to make it so those schools wouldn't want to be completely independent, like UCONN?

Add Duke, Virginia, WVa, Wake, Pitt, Syracuse. Does seven football schools make it work or break it once again?

[JTG]

UCONN's fb coach Jim Mora Jr is trying to sell players on the idea they get back to winning fb and get asked to the ACC. Now that's some delusional logic.

[xudash]

How many football schools would the Big East need to add to make it so those schools wouldn't want to be completely independent, like UCONN?

Add Duke, Virginia, WVa, Wake, Pitt, Syracuse. Does seven football schools make it work or break it once again?

That's a good question, but the FIRST QUESTION will always be: if we add this school, will the per team payout from the media agreement increase?

I go back to my point about the profile necessary for a school to possibly end up seriously considering the Big East, assuming their present football driven media payout begins to truly crumble around them: private and comparatively small (i.e. can't look to public funding, and there will not be a large bucket of student fee subsidies to bail them out from the media payout haircut). That means Duke, Wake and Syracuse from your list, along with BC.

What would any of those schools do in terms of adding value to the BE media agreement? I believe we all agree that Duke would be a slam dunk and Syracuse a close second, simply because they were in the BE before and, like UCONN, might find themselves rehabilitated once Boeheim steps down and once they find themselves back in a more logical recruiting base. Maybe BC could wake back up if it came back to the BE, but maybe UCONN and Providence would nix such an idea.

I like your thinking. I see it as an inverted dynamic from what happened with the old Big East, with this new possible version being fully driven by basketball and not being torn apart by football aspirations.

Otherwise, it just seems like UVA is B1G bound. Who knows about WVU and PITT.

[MHettel]

If all hell breaks loose and the BE expands and was forced to take on some teams with Football, I would prefer to to pass on big state schools like WVU, Pitt, UVA, Syracuse, etc.

I’d settle for Duke, BC and wake.

[xudash]

If all hell breaks loose and the BE expands and was forced to take on some teams with Football, I would prefer to to pass on big state schools like WVU, Pitt, UVA, Syracuse, etc.

I’d settle for Duke, BC and wake.

Syracuse University is a private institution that was founded in 1870. It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 14,479 (fall 2020)

I agree with your sentiment, but Duke and Syracuse would be the first two I'd go after. Duke, because it's Duke. Syracuse, because of its earlier affiliation with the Big East and because of some of the old rivalries that would wake up with them in - Georgetown, to name one.

[Seven Eighths]

I want the Big East to benefit from this chaos but I also think the the ACC losers are better off sticking together than leaving to join the Big East.

Let’s say FL St., Miami, NC and Clemson leave the ACC with two going to the SEC and two to the Big 10. That still leaves a pretty damn good basketball conference (assuming the others all drop/dump football). Duke, NC St., Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt and VA along with Wake and others are a pretty solid b-ball only conference.

I think the Big East should make a play for Kansas. Kansas football is terrible and the B12 is on way shakier ground than the ACC.

[JTG]

The only reason the ACC is not on shaky ground is that ND is sticking around, for now. Once they decide, FSU, Miami , UNC, Va, Clemson will be headed elsewhere. Then the ACC will crumble. Lots of PAC/Big12 merger talk going on which could keep Kansas in the Big12.

[UCGRAD4X]

The only reason the ACC is not on shaky ground is that ND is sticking around, for now. Once they decide, FSU, Miami , UNC, Va, Clemson will be headed elsewhere. Then the ACC will crumble. Lots of PAC/Big12 merger talk going on which could keep Kansas in the Big12.

A Pac 12/Big 12/ACC merger with a six west/six central/six east (or 6/7/7 to get to 20) would be interesting. Not as much travel if they play east/west only twice a year on a rotation. Maybe not marquee teams but maybe a few names big enough to get there a-la-Bearkittens or become good enough on a regular basis to at least be relevant. Certainly if Clifton Community College can do it...Boise/Arizona/Virginia Tech/Oklahoma St could.

Might be a stretch but how many teams are relevant now?

Would be 3 major conferences (well, 2 major and what not-so-major).

How many "major" conferences are there now? Just one really? B1G is trying to, but they are a still a step or two behind the SEC. Everybody else in barely in the rear view mirror.

[XUGRAD80]

For what it’s worth….I heard today from a very solid lead from within the UC athletic department that Oregon to BigXII is going to happen, and soon.

Remember folks….I don’t make the news, I just report it. :chin:

[MHettel]

For what it’s worth….I heard today from a very solid lead from within the UC athletic department that Oregon to BigXII is going to happen, and soon.

Remember folks….I don’t make the news, I just report it. :chin:

hmm. Interesting.

I mean, which school or conference makes the next move? If the B1G had any more moves in mind, they would make them. They realize that any offer made to any school outside of the SEC to join the B1G would be the best option for that school. So anything they want to do would just trump all other moves. If they wanted Oregon, and Oregon had the other options of staying in a rebuilt Pac 12 or going to the B12, then it would be an EASY decision for Oregon to join the B1G.

So the fact that Oregon is willing to commit to the B12 does suggest (to me at least) that the B1G is not planning to add them and potentially could indicate that the B1G has no plans to add anyone at this point (cause Oregon would be in that discussion I'm assuming).

Oregon going alone doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Maybe the B12 has asked others, but they either arent interested or think a better offer may be forthcoming....

If the Pac 12 wanted to expand, the Western most B12 teams would make the most sense. But I absolutely do not see any type of scenario where either the Pac 12 or B12 both LOSE AND GAIN teams. Those conferences will either add teams and stay viable, or lose teams and they will be out of the mix (pac 12 could "remain" a conference with a few scraps and then add some inconsequential teams like UNLV, SDSU, Boise etc).

I think the ACC may lose some teams, and add some others. Florida State, Clemson and Miami and pretty attractive for the SEC. The ACC might be able to survive those losses and grab a team like WVU. Not sure that WVU would consider the ACC to be much better than the current B12, though. However the geography makes more sense.

Oregon to the B12 is NOT the move I expect to be next. The ACC has to play defense. The Pac 12 has to play offense. The B12 can kind of do either right now.

I think the next move we see will involve at least 2 and probably 4 teams moving between the B12 and Pac 12. Or the SEC raids the ACC for the good football properties.

[sirthought]

If Oregon does go to the B12, I'd be curious to see how UC approaches their track program to compete moving forward. They've had a couple olympians over the past 10-15 years, but Oregon is a major player, from what I've seen.

These geographic distances are crazy. I guess if the B10 knows they are getting a huge pay day, adding two programs from the LA media market could cover the expenses for transportation. But the B12 and other conferences don't have that knowledge. And the idea that even an enhanced conference like that could force the media outlets to pay up is a big gamble. I mean, there's only so much money before we watch nothing but commercials and no games at all!

[X-band '01]

If Oregon does go to the B12, I'd be curious to see how UC approaches their track program to compete moving forward. They've had a couple olympians over the past 10-15 years, but Oregon is a major player, from what I've seen.

These geographic distances are crazy. I guess if the B10 knows they are getting a huge pay day, adding two programs from the LA media market could cover the expenses for transportation. But the B12 and other conferences don't have that knowledge. And the idea that even an enhanced conference like that could force the media outlets to pay up is a big gamble. I mean, there's only so much money before we watch nothing but commercials and no games at all!

I guess now is the perfect time to point out there will now be 5 media timeouts per half instead of the current 4. It's certainly not meant to improve the flow of the game.

[Xuperman]

These geographic distances are crazy.

Yeah, don't expect Rutgers or Maryland to get a road win in LA anytime this century. A literal coast to coast flight and the accompanying jet lag will greatly enhance home field advantage. I wonder if you will see marquee match ups, say Penn St vs USC, at a mid country neutral sight?

[xudash]

Yeah, don't expect Rutgers or Maryland to get a road win in LA anytime this century. A literal coast to coast flight and the accompanying jet lag will greatly enhance home field advantage. I wonder if you will see marquee match ups, say Penn St vs USC, at a mid country neutral sight?

I wouldn't wonder about that too long. The answer to that is "absolutely not happening."

[drudy23]

Hopefully the PAC-10 and ACC kind of fall apart and the Big East just adds Gonzaga and Duke. Both would be great Big East fits.

That would be awesome.

[Seven Eighths]

Hopefully the PAC-10 and ACC kind of fall apart and the Big East just adds Gonzaga and Duke. Both would be great Big East fits.

That would be awesome.

Can’t we just do a 10 year home and away with Gonzaga and forget about adding them into the conference?

[bjf123]

I guess now is the perfect time to point out there will now be 5 media timeouts per half instead of the current 4. It's certainly not meant to improve the flow of the game.

Whose stupid idea was that? I get it. It’s all about TV money and selling ads. Still, it’s stupid and will add more time to the games. Good luck getting the late games to start anywhere close to on time. Please tell me they at least took away a team time out!


Can’t we just do a 10 year home and away with Gonzaga and forget about adding them into the conference?

^^^This^^^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[94GRAD]

I guess now is the perfect time to point out there will now be 5 media timeouts per half instead of the current 4. It's certainly not meant to improve the flow of the game.

Hasn't it always been 5 per half? A TV TO after every 4 mins, hence 4-minute wars?

[paulxu]

I guess now is the perfect time to point out there will now be 5 media timeouts per half instead of the current 4. It's certainly not meant to improve the flow of the game.

That'll shorten the bench.

[drudy23]

Can’t we just do a 10 year home and away with Gonzaga and forget about adding them into the conference?

Fine by me - but if the ACC football schools go in a different direction, the BE has to be pondering Duke right? Right?

[bjf123]

Hasn't it always been 5 per half? A TV TO after every 4 mins, hence 4-minute wars?

The last “war” ended at half time. No time out involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[94GRAD]

The last “war” ended at half time. No time out involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And that's why just sling drinks!

[bjf123]

And that's why just sling drinks!

Go with your strengths!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SM#24]

And that's why just sling drinks!

And apparently sling 4 but charge for 5.

[xudash]

Can’t we just do a 10 year home and away with Gonzaga and forget about adding them into the conference?

That would be totally unacceptable in my book for 2 reasons:

1. It would not optimize our media agreement (it would be better were Gonzaga to be included in the BE as a conference member); and

2. We - the Big East - don't exist to prop up Gonzaga; they're either in or they're out. No scheduling tether to help them out otherwise.

This is a business decision, and one that would still be attractive to fans. It should be all or nothing when it comes to the Zags.

[94GRAD]

And apparently sling 4 but charge for 5.

My key to success has been revealed

[paulxu]

Have you told Miller about the UC $1000 streak deal?

[94GRAD]

Have you told Miller about the UC $1000 streak deal?

I haven't but I'm positive multiple people have.

[X-band '01]

Hasn't it always been 5 per half? A TV TO after every 4 mins, hence 4-minute wars?

I demand an end to wars and barking dogs this year.

[Seven Eighths]

That would be totally unacceptable in my book for 2 reasons:

1. It would not optimize our media agreement (it would be better were Gonzaga to be included in the BE as a conference member); and

2. We - the Big East - don't exist to prop up Gonzaga; they're either in or they're out. No scheduling tether to help them out otherwise.

This is a business decision, and one that would still be attractive to fans. It should be all or nothing when it comes to the Zags.

This home and away series would just involve Xavier and Gonzaga. Is there an appetite to send Providence’s tennis team to WA? We don’t need Gonzaga for anything. They would be good for basketball but the distance is just too great.

The BE has no reason to expand right now or ever but if people are wanting games against Gonzaga, a regular non conference match up fits the bill.

[MHettel]

This home and away series would just involve Xavier and Gonzaga. Is there an appetite to send Providence’s tennis team to WA? We don’t need Gonzaga for anything. They would be good for basketball but the distance is just too great.

The BE has no reason to expand right now or ever but if people are wanting games against Gonzaga, a regular non conference match up fits the bill.

Are you buying or selling?

I’m mean if The Zags came to us and proposed this, I’d be all over it.

But if I’m selling this idea to them, would they buy? Why would they? They can get games with anyone

Having them in the conference is ideal. I still have no idea how that could happen

[nuts4xu]

I demand an end to wars and barking dogs this year.

Please no more barking, that's about as bush league as it gets. I never liked the barking and really hope the "kills" board left with Travis Steele.

[xudash]

This home and away series would just involve Xavier and Gonzaga. Is there an appetite to send Providence’s tennis team to WA? We don’t need Gonzaga for anything. They would be good for basketball but the distance is just too great.

The BE has no reason to expand right now or ever but if people are wanting games against Gonzaga, a regular non conference match up fits the bill.

Is there an appetite to send Providence’s tennis team to WA? Yes, if the money is worthwhile.


We don’t need Gonzaga for anything. I agree. But let's say UCONN and the BE's success to-date moves us from $4 million per team up to $7 million per team per year in our media agreement in a couple years. Let's further imagine that the network involved pitches the addition of Gonzaga to take us to $10 million per team per year. Numbers like this have been bantered about, though we don't know with any certainty how our next media rights negotiation will work out. So, I agree: we don't need them for anything, but there is a scenario where they just might come in handy, at least financially.


They would be good for basketball but the distance is just too great. If the distance turns out to be too great, it will turn out that way primarily for Gonzaga. They'll be the program that has to do most of the heavy lifting in that department. In the meantime, a little West Coast exposure can't hurt us, especially if we find a way to mix in another opponent in some kind of OOC "one off" while we're out there (not sure if that is possible or not), or at the very least bridge the away Gonzaga game with an away Creighton game coming or going.


The BE has no reason to expand right now or ever. I agree that the BE has no reason to expand right now. But as the old saying goes - never say never. "Ever", especially in college athletics realignment, is a long time.

This remains a black and white issue for me. Either the BE leadership, presidents and ADs find it viable and valuable to bring them into the conference, or let Gonzaga figure out its own long term survival plan out there. They're in a very good and unique place as a program right now, but they're on a rather fragile island when it comes to their conference affiliation.

[Seven Eighths]

I personally like to see the following happen. The PAC adds Gonzaga and BYU and negotiates with the ACC in some kind of rumored partnership. The ACC adds WVU. This weakens the B12 who is actively trying to kill the PAC.

The PAC has 11 for football and 12 for all other sports. It doesn’t off set the losses of USC and UCLA but no available program does. It weakens the other conference vying for survival and helps both the PAC and ACC stay in the Big 4 until 2036.

This puts Kansas in play for joining the BE and I’d rather add Kansas as the 12th team to the BE over Gonzaga.

Of course no one knows what’s going on or going to happen.

If this played out, it would really hurt UC so that’s an added bonus.

[sirthought]

Kansas will never join the Big East. Not gonna happen. If XU were going to be in a league with them, it would mean the current conferences would blow up somehow and reconfigure completely.

[Seven Eighths]

Kansas will never join the Big East. Not gonna happen. If XU were going to be in a league with them, it would mean the current conferences would blow up somehow and reconfigure completely.

People said the same thing about UCONN.

[UCGRAD4X]

If Oregon does go to the B12, I'd be curious to see how UC approaches their track program to compete moving forward. They've had a couple olympians over the past 10-15 years, but Oregon is a major player, from what I've seen.

These geographic distances are crazy. I guess if the B10 knows they are getting a huge pay day, adding two programs from the LA media market could cover the expenses for transportation. But the B12 and other conferences don't have that knowledge. And the idea that even an enhanced conference like that could force the media outlets to pay up is a big gamble. I mean, there's only so much money before we watch nothing but commercials and no games at all!

I expect Al Gore to eventually get involved.

[sirthought]

People said the same thing about UCONN.

No. A very different situation with UCONN and the Big East. They had significant history with the brand, and they weren't doing anything with the AAC. They were in a desperate situation to not fall further from relevance.

The B12 is going to be a desirable basketball conference and have the potential to be a good football conference. If more realignment happens it's likely to be more attractive for KU to stay where they are. And although they haven't had a great football program, the administration there are fully on board with the investments they've made to support that sport.

[Seven Eighths]

I disagree. Many said UCONN would never return to the Big East and they did.

If WVU and BYU leave the B12, that conference is really struggling. Any additions would be weak. They already had to compromise with the addition of UCF and UC.

Kansas would be smart to make the same decision UCONN made before it’s too late.

Now, I agree KU is not leaving if the B12 stays pat but my scenario is contingent on them losing WVU and BYU.

[JTG]

Kansas is not coming to the Big East. Even though in football they are "guaranteed win day " for any Power 5 school they play, except IU , in which case it would be a tie. What's left of the BIG 12 will still get more money than the BE, and Kansas has enough students to milk to prop up their crapola football.

[muskiefan82]

An annual Jesuit Jam with one or two Big East teams and another Jesuit college. Maybe Gonzaga vs. Xavier and Loyola (Marymount, MD, or ILL) vs. Creighton in year one. Other teams would be St. Louis, San Francisco, Boston College (I think), St. Peters, etc. Counts like a regular game, but is way more fun.

[Seven Eighths]

Again, this is if BYU and WVU leave and the B12 is no longer a Big 5.

It’s all about money. Of course Kansas is not leaving when they make the big football money but that is not a certainty going forward.

[Xuperman]

I personally like to see the following happen. The PAC adds Gonzaga and BYU and negotiates with the ACC in some kind of rumored partnership. The ACC adds WVU. This weakens the B12 who is actively trying to kill the PAC.

If this played out, it would really hurt UC so that’s an added bonus.

First of all, your analysis sucks, even comical. F'ck the PAC12. In what reality are you here on THIS board in support of a conference that could not be further away from the interest of XU.

2nd, if you think hurting UC is good for ANYONE in our metro area, you are a complete fool. I live here, I grew up here, I love my city and having UC athletics ascend to the top level is an absolute home run for the city economy. Grow up and stop with the high school jock stuff. I want what makes MY city the best it can be.

[GoMuskies]

I don't live in Cincinnati. I hope UC ends up in the Sun Belt.

[MHettel]

First of all, your analysis sucks, even comical. F'ck the PAC12. In what reality are you here on THIS board in support of a conference that could not be further away from the interest of XU.

2nd, if you think hurting UC is good for ANYONE in our metro area, you are a complete fool. I live here, I grew up here, I love my city and having UC athletics ascend to the top level is an absolute home run for the city economy. Grow up and stop with the high school jock stuff. I want what makes MY city the best it can be.

Maybe people on the “I want what’s best for the city of Cincinnati” message board will resonate with your message.

The sentiment here, at the xu message, board is that UC can choke on my mansac.

[Seven Eighths]

First of all, your analysis sucks, even comical. F'ck the PAC12. In what reality are you here on THIS board in support of a conference that could not be further away from the interest of XU.

2nd, if you think hurting UC is good for ANYONE in our metro area, you are a complete fool. I live here, I grew up here, I love my city and having UC athletics ascend to the top level is an absolute home run for the city economy. Grow up and stop with the high school jock stuff. I want what makes MY city the best it can be.

It makes more sense for Gonzaga to join the PAC than the Big East purely on geography. Now again, this is of course all speculation. No one saw USC and UCLA going to the B10. Its madness right now.

As far as UC goes, I too live in Cincinnati and have for almost 50 years. We have the Reds, Bengals and FCC. The city is fine if UC’s athletics end up in the dumper and I sure hope they do.

[bigdiggins]

I hope UC athletics get f***ed up the @ss with a big rubber d*ck and then Reggie Butler breaks it off and beats them to death with it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't live in Cincinnati. I hope UC ends up in the Sun Belt.




The sentiment here, at the xu message, board is that UC can choke on my mansac.


The city is fine if UC’s athletics end up in the dumper and I sure hope they do.


I hope UC athletics get f***ed up the @ss with a big rubber d*ck and then Reggie Butler breaks it off and beats them to death with it.

Here, here!

[XUBison]

Here, here!

Yep, what he said.

[Xville]

How does uc being relevant in any sport help the city of Cincinnati? Yeah maybe a few alumni come in and spend a few bucks on hotel rooms and food. I don’t know this for a fact but being a public institution they probably take way more than they give.

I do know that the school itself has to continue to cover the athletic department and it usually comes from student fees jacking up the price of tuition. As a conservative, I find it fascinating you are in full support of a public institution

[JTG]

I get it. Lots of XU Cincinnatians have friends and family that went to UC. Doesn't mean you have to root on the Kittens. I have 2 brothers, a sister-in-law, a niece and a nephew with IU degrees., love 'em all. I still detest IU. My son went to Butler after a year at X, love him but I still loathe Butler. By the way, he's a big X fan.

[UCGRAD4X]

I resemble that remark.

[paulxu]

My son went to Butler......By the way, he's a big X fan.

Smarter than your average Butler graduate.

[sirthought]

How does uc being relevant in any sport help the city of Cincinnati? Yeah maybe a few alumni come in and spend a few bucks on hotel rooms and food. I don’t know this for a fact but being a public institution they probably take way more than they give.

I do know that the school itself has to continue to cover the athletic department and it usually comes from student fees jacking up the price of tuition. As a conservative, I find it fascinating you are in full support of a public institution

Being a conservative explains the lack of comprehension.

[sirthought]

I think this idea works pretty well for all those involved. Pac12 and B12 merge with 24 teams total and create four geographic pods.

https://theathletic.com/3426046/2022/07/15/pac12-big12-schedule-football/

[Xuperman]

I don’t know this for a fact but being a public institution they probably take way more than they give. As a conservative, I find it fascinating you are in full support of a public institution

C'mon man, of course moving up in stature in all sports is a net gain for the city.

However if it was your intent to make some non-sports slander against the University as an institution, you l have displayed textbook ignorance. The UC Medical infrastructure has always been a vital part of our area but world wide as well.

Support of such institutions are moral imperative to my style of conservatism.

To be clear, UC bball should do all of the vile things listed here, I am 40 years invested in Musketeer hoops and relish every Shootout victory. I am however equally invested in Bearcat Football........grassroots fan.....no degree from either.

[Xville]

C'mon man, of course moving up in stature in all sports is a net gain for the city.

However if it was your intent to make some non-sports slander against the University as an institution, you l have displayed textbook ignorance. The UC Medical infrastructure has always been a vital part of our area but world wide as well.

Support of such institutions are moral imperative to my style of conservatism.

To be clear, UC bball should do all of the vile things listed here, I am 40 years invested in Musketeer hoops and relish every Shootout victory. I am however equally invested in Bearcat Football........grassroots fan.....no degree from either.

Can you explain in actual real terms why uc sports being relevant is a net gain to the city? You seem pretty sure of it, so shouldn’t be hard to find the numbers.

I’m not making a non-sports slander regarding uc, but being that public institutions of higher learning take an insane amount of money from public funding while spreading mostly liberal ideals in the classroom I’d think you would reevaluate your consideration.

[Xuperman]

Can you explain in actual real terms why uc sports being relevant is a net gain to the city? You seem pretty sure of it, so shouldn’t be hard to find the numbers.

I’m not making a non-sports slander regarding uc, but being that public institutions of higher learning take an insane amount of money from public funding while spreading mostly liberal ideals in the classroom I’d think you would reevaluate your consideration.

To point A-
Obviously the Schmidt Fieldhouse Muskies could not hold a candle to Cintas Center Muskies in local area financial impact. Same with the UC Athletic ascension. Why does something so incredibly obvious need to be stated?

To point BE
That ship sailed LONG AGO. The liberal indoctrination in all aspects of K-12 thru Higher learning is a lost cause. My son is heading into his 3rd year at OSU and the effects on him are remarkable. My daughter is going to be a Freshman at Antioch in a month!

[xu82]

Can you explain in actual real terms why uc sports being relevant is a net gain to the city? You seem pretty sure of it, so shouldn’t be hard to find the numbers.

I’m not making a non-sports slander regarding uc, but being that public institutions of higher learning take an insane amount of money from public funding while spreading mostly liberal ideals in the classroom I’d think you would reevaluate your consideration.


Why does everything needed to be twisted into liberal or conservative? Get over it!

Good things come with higher education. If UC having decent sports programs helps elevate their school, much like the Xavier formula, then so be it. (I am NOT arguing the funding of their athletics, which is another issue, IMO.)

Vanderbilt may be private, but it’s value is incredible in the Nashville area because of the medical research and development that comes with the territory. You hear Nashville and think country music, but it’s a medical hub generating good jobs and significant wealth, not to mention the benefit to mankind.

A good public example would be UCF. Orlando isn’t just Mickey and Disney anymore. They have a medical school that came out of the ground about 15-20 years ago. Good things happened all around it, creating jobs, wealth and research. That’s a GOOD thing.

I want to beat UC every year, but that’s a basketball thing. I know there are complete A-Holes all over town who take this “rivalry” completely too far. I wasn’t looking for a fight when I sat down at Arthur’s for dinner a few years ago wearing X gear. From my experience, it’s mostly UC fans (of which there are far more), but there are plenty of both. My sister graduated from X, but married a great UC grad.

I like college towns, and I like a balance in life. Everything I see is not painted as liberal or conservative.

[Xuperman]

Why does everything needed to be twisted into liberal or conservative? Get over it!

Good things come with higher education. If UC having decent sports programs helps elevate their school, much like the Xavier formula, then so be it. (I am NOT arguing the funding of their athletics, which is another issue, IMO.)

Vanderbilt may be private, but it’s value is incredible in the Nashville area because of the medical research and development that comes with the territory. You hear Nashville and think country music, but it’s a medical hub generating good jobs and significant wealth, not to mention the benefit to mankind.

A good public example would be UCF. Orlando isn’t just Mickey and Disney anymore. They have a medical school that came out of the ground about 15-20 years ago. Good things happened all around it, creating jobs, wealth and research. That’s a GOOD thing.

I want to beat UC every year, but that’s a basketball thing. I know there are complete A-Holes all over town who take this “rivalry” completely too far. I wasn’t looking for a fight when I sat down at Arthur’s for dinner a few years ago wearing X gear. From my experience, it’s mostly UC fans (of which there are far more), but there are plenty of both. My sister graduated from X, but married a great UC grad.

I like college towns, and I like a balance in life. Everything I see is not painted as liberal or conservative.

Fantastic Post! I don't see how it could be better said!

[Xville]

To point A-
Obviously the Schmidt Fieldhouse Muskies could not hold a candle to Cintas Center Muskies in local area financial impact. Same with the UC Athletic ascension. Why does something so incredibly obvious need to be stated?

To point BE
That ship sailed LONG AGO. The liberal indoctrination in all aspects of K-12 thru Higher learning is a lost cause. My son is heading into his 3rd year at OSU and the effects on him are remarkable. My daughter is going to be a Freshman at Antioch in a month!

While I agree there is certainly a financial impact to your point a, I believe that’s mostly been to the school, not to the city of Cincinnati.

[xudash]

Why does everything needed to be twisted into liberal or conservative? Get over it!

Good things come with higher education. If UC having decent sports programs helps elevate their school, much like the Xavier formula, then so be it. (I am NOT arguing the funding of their athletics, which is another issue, IMO.)

Vanderbilt may be private, but it’s value is incredible in the Nashville area because of the medical research and development that comes with the territory. You hear Nashville and think country music, but it’s a medical hub generating good jobs and significant wealth, not to mention the benefit to mankind.

A good public example would be UCF. Orlando isn’t just Mickey and Disney anymore. They have a medical school that came out of the ground about 15-20 years ago. Good things happened all around it, creating jobs, wealth and research. That’s a GOOD thing.

I want to beat UC every year, but that’s a basketball thing. I know there are complete A-Holes all over town who take this “rivalry” completely too far. I wasn’t looking for a fight when I sat down at Arthur’s for dinner a few years ago wearing X gear. From my experience, it’s mostly UC fans (of which there are far more), but there are plenty of both. My sister graduated from X, but married a great UC grad.

I like college towns, and I like a balance in life. Everything I see is not painted as liberal or conservative.

Great post.

[Xuperman]

While I agree there is certainly a financial impact to your point a, I believe that’s mostly been to the school, not to the city of Cincinnati.

So again, having to state the obvious is a head scratcher for me.

Xavier athletics joining the Big East greatly enhanced the City's profile in multiple positive aspects. I.E. having National Champion Villanova in town yearly, tends to draw far more national media attention vs any A10 matchup.....thus nothing but positive overall view of the city and the financial benefits that come with it.

So it follows suit that Bearcat football making the CFP and the subsequent addition to the B12, will yield undeniable financial benefits for the city as a whole. Jayhawk BBall yearly and Baylor/BYU football here is nothing but a homerun.

[MHettel]

I started at xu in 1991. I was from out of town and XU was barely more than a Cinderella and we’re just making noise in the NCAAs.

UC made the Final 4 my freshman year. The level of superiority that existed was nauseating.

They were more nationally renowned, with a thug as a coach. And we were the little engine that shouldn’t, but did.

And there was NO respect from them towards us. Only contempt and distain.

And we beat their asses. Way more than they beat ours. And yet still the lack of respect.

We’ve passed them. They know it. Heck, everyone does.

They can burn as far as I care.

[sirthought]

I started at xu in 1991. I was from out of town and XU was barely more than a Cinderella and we’re just making noise in the NCAAs.

UC made the Final 4 my freshman year. The level of superiority that existed was nauseating.

They were more nationally renowned, with a thug as a coach. And we were the little engine that shouldn’t, but did.

And there was NO respect from them towards us. Only contempt and distain.

And we beat their asses. Way more than they beat ours. And yet still the lack of respect.

We’ve passed them. They know it. Heck, everyone does.

They can burn as far as I care.

That's really seeing the big picture. I can tell how your upbringing prepared you for these sort of discussions.

[Xuperman]

I started at xu in 1991. I was from out of town and XU was barely more than a Cinderella and we’re just making noise in the NCAAs.

UC made the Final 4 my freshman year. The level of superiority that existed was nauseating.

They were more nationally renowned, with a thug as a coach. And we were the little engine that shouldn’t, but did.

And there was NO respect from them towards us. Only contempt and distain.

And we beat their asses. Way more than they beat ours. And yet still the lack of respect.

We’ve passed them. They know it. Heck, everyone does.

They can burn as far as I care.

I go back a stretch before '91, but I am right there with you in those sentiments. The team and fanbase arrogance generated by that ONE Hugs F4, is the driving source of the XU disdain for their program and is totally justified....Lenny Brown zipped them up in legendary fashion!

Not to mention, the whole thing is compounded 10 fold knowing that the Ed Badger/Tony Yates teams were as PATHETIC as they come, just a decade earlier. It is and will continue to be a season high note to monkey stomp their asses on a regular basis!

[Xville]

So again, having to state the obvious is a head scratcher for me.

Xavier athletics joining the Big East greatly enhanced the City's profile in multiple positive aspects. I.E. having National Champion Villanova in town yearly, tends to draw far more national media attention vs any A10 matchup.....thus nothing but positive overall view of the city and the financial benefits that come with it.

So it follows suit that Bearcat football making the CFP and the subsequent addition to the B12, will yield undeniable financial benefits for the city as a whole. Jayhawk BBall yearly and Baylor/BYU football here is nothing but a homerun.

I understand your point, I just believe that most of the positive economic impact is for the school itself vs the city at large when it comes to sports programs. it’s pretty difficult to quantify the economic impact to the city, especially when it comes to the difference between a “successful” program and not. Most importantly, uc can rot in hell for all I care :)

[Xuperman]

I understand your point, I just believe that most of the positive economic impact is for the school itself vs the city at large when it comes to sports programs. it’s pretty difficult to quantify the economic impact to the city, especially when it comes to the difference between a “successful” program and not. Most importantly, uc can rot in hell for all I care :)

Here is a good statistical measuring stick for estimated economic impact generated by local sports.

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2021/06/29/cincinnati-economic-recovery-sports#:~:text=In%20a%20non%2Dpandemic%20year,the% 20local%20economy%20each%20year.

The Flying Pig estimate cited here is an eye opener. $15 mil dumped into the local economy for just 1 event. Not only do the local businesses profit, but the City itself does as well through income/sales tax.

[paulxu]

I hope Cincinnati does well.
I hope the University of Cincinnati does well.
I could give 2 sh$ts about their basketball team and the pussy coaches they've had who wanted to fight with our players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLkQ7OPcfE0

[MHettel]

That's really seeing the big picture. I can tell how your upbringing prepared you for these sort of discussions.

Ummmm, ok I guess.

Nice cheap shot.

[X-band '01]

Sort of conference carousel:

Indianapolis Star - IUPUI to split into IU-Indianapolis and Purdue-Indianapolis (https://news.yahoo.com/indiana-university-purdue-split-iupui-154709631.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

This split would take place beginning in fall 2024.

[JTG]

Sort of conference carousel:

Indianapolis Star - IUPUI to split into IU-Indianapolis and Purdue-Indianapolis (https://news.yahoo.com/indiana-university-purdue-split-iupui-154709631.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

This split would take place beginning in fall 2024.

The school plans on staying in the Horizon, but they are a tiny blip on the local sports scene. What they do is of no consequence to anyone, but the athletes involved.

[GoMuskies]

Ron Hunter destroying his pants celebrating their first ever NCAA Tournament berth was pretty awesome.

[xubrew]

Ron Hunter destroying his pants celebrating their first ever NCAA Tournament berth was pretty awesome.

I've been trying to find the video of this for years.

[Masterofreality]

The school plans on staying in the Horizon, but they are a tiny blip on the local sports scene. What they do is of no consequence to anyone, but the athletes involved.

How TF is that gonna work? Are they gonna fund two teams??

[GoMuskies]

How TF is that gonna work? Are they gonna fund two teams??

The Purdue portion of the school is essentially becoming essentially a satellite of the West Laffayette campus as I read the article. So just the IU portion should be a separate school that will have an athletic program.

[JTG]

The Purdue portion of the school is essentially becoming essentially a satellite of the West Lafayette campus as I read the article. So just the IU portion should be a separate school that will have an athletic program.

This. It will be IU Indianapolis. There will not be a Purdue sports component. Purdue funded the science and technology programs at the school. The school is mostly an IU extension of Bloomington.

[Muskie]

It will be similar to what happened with IPFW in Ft. Wayne. It's now a Purdue entity.

[X-band '01]

So do we count Steve Masiello's departure at Manhattan towards the 2022 or 2023 season? He's out two weeks prior to the start of the season and half their team is jumping into the transfer portal, including the MAAC Preseason Player of the Year. Oof

[GoMuskies]

Remember when he was the hottest rising star in the coaching ranks? Too bad he was a huge dbag.

[xubrew]

Remember when he was the hottest rising star in the coaching ranks? Too bad he was a huge dbag.

I think you're being kind of hard on the guy. Okay, so he once forgot that he hadn't actually graduated from college and stated on his resume that he had a degree. Could have happened to anyone. I mean...who hasn't on occasion forgotten that they didn't graduate from college??

[94GRAD]

I think you're being kind of hard on the guy. Okay, so he once forgot that he hadn't actually graduated from college and stated on his resume that he had a degree. Could have happened to anyone. I mean...who hasn't on occasion forgotten that they didn't graduate from college??

I wake up once a month thinking I missed my final, final exam and haven't graduated.

[American X]

I wake up once a month thinking I missed my final, final exam and haven't graduated.

You run the campus bar. You did not really graduate.

[STL_XUfan]

You run the campus bar. You did not really graduate.
He will be given his degree once he pays off that parking ticket from 1992.

[94GRAD]

You run the campus bar. You did not really graduate.

This couldn't be more accurate.

[paulxu]

You run the campus bar. You did not really graduate.

Thank God for that. (the first part)

[sirthought]

Gonzaga in talks to join the Big 12 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34934063/sources-gonzaga-talks-big-12-joining-conference)

[drudy23]

Gonzaga in talks to join the Big 12 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34934063/sources-gonzaga-talks-big-12-joining-conference)

I'd love for the Big East to get them, but the Big 12 makes more sense.

I'd also love to see the ACC fold and the Big East get Duke. I honestly think that could be a possibility one day.

[MHettel]

Gonzaga in talks to join the Big 12 (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34934063/sources-gonzaga-talks-big-12-joining-conference)

well, we will see how our conference brass reacts to this news. I'd like to see Gonzaga in the BE.....and I have said that for years. If they go to the B12, i wont have a reaction based on the fact that they went to the B12, but rather that it means they WONT be coming to the BE.

In addition, this will be the introduction of non-football teams joining power 5 football conferences. Didnt we see this once before, and didnt it lead to the BE becoming a giant WEDGE in the conference structures and the crazy movement we saw in the early 2000s. I'm not sure where the carousel stops when it comes to picking BE teams off to join power conferences for non-football sports....

Also, lets not rule out the possibility that Gonzaga may be using the B12 as leverage in discussions with the BE. Sounds like there may have been prior BE discussions, but they were merely alluded to. The fact that this B12 discussion seems to be very specific certainly seems like it could have been leaked....

Final thought....the pending UCLA & USC moves to the B12 may have some resistance, especially UCLA who is part of a much larger education "system" in California and could face some legal issues. I'm sure UCLA and USC joining makes it much more geographically friendly for Gonzaga to join.

[sirthought]

Final thought....the pending UCLA & USC moves to the B12 may have some resistance, especially UCLA who is part of a much larger education "system" in California and could face some legal issues. I'm sure UCLA and USC joining makes it much more geographically friendly for Gonzaga to join.

Except those schools are joining the Big 10, not Big 12. Bill Walton is lobbying to stop it.


Geographically, I think Gonzaga joining the Big East makes little sense. That said, considering how spread out the Big 12 is right now, it also makes little sense. These schools should be minimizing the travel as much as possible. I know my opinion is not shared by most people who only follow the sport 24/7.

[MHettel]

Except those schools are joining the Big 10, not Big 12. Bill Walton is lobbying to stop it.


Geographically, I think Gonzaga joining the Big East makes little sense. That said, considering how spread out the Big 12 is right now, it also makes little sense. These schools should be minimizing the travel as much as possible. I know my opinion is not shared by most people who only follow the sport 24/7.

well, good point. nevermind!

[sirthought]

Every time zone represented.

If Gonzaga joins the Big 12 we could be seeing Big 12 games as the early and late broadcasts for multiple nights a week. This would clearly impact recruiting, not to mention broadcast dollars.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Zags in the Beast makes sense as far as basketball only goes. But I understand the appeal of the BIG 12. If I’m the BEAST I’m serious doing what I can do get them in here. Forget the round robin, I love it but those days will come to an end and I hate to see us miss out on the Zags.

[xubrew]

After rumblings that the Cal Board of Regents would not allow UCLA to go to the Big Ten, they met today and will let them move conferences.

[X-band '01]

LA Times Link (https://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/story/2022-12-14/uc-regents-finally-bless-ucla-move-to-the-big-ten)

Translation - we'll send some hush money to UC-Berkeley.

[GoMuskies]

There was a time when UC-Berkeley could have gone, too. Back when that place wasn't a complete shit show.

[xubrew]

There was a time when UC-Berkeley could have gone, too. Back when that place wasn't a complete shit show.

I was hoping the BOR would not approve it simply because I wanted to see an absolute shit show.

For those that don't know, the Board of Regents oversees all of the UC campuses (Cal, UCLA, UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine, etc). There was what I guess you would call a movement from within (mainly from Cal) to stop UCLA from going to the Big Ten. Oh, that would have been fun!! That would have been SOOO much fun!! I'm disappointed it didn't happen, because that would have been fun!!

[waggy]

I believe cal will eventually get in. The next pac12 media deal will be interesting.

[GoMuskies]

Cal will get into the Big Ten?!? Why would the Pac-12 even want to keep Cal?

[Xville]

I believe cal will eventually get in. The next pac12 media deal will be interesting.

I think the pac 12 and acc are going to join forces in a way for the media deal. It will get acc out of their wretched deal, get the pac 12 something, and help boost the acc network that ESPN has a big financial interest in.

[waggy]

Cal will get into the Big Ten?!? Why would the Pac-12 even want to keep Cal?

Travel partner. Tradition with Stanford. Location. Size. Academic prestige (I know, I know). They’ll get them at a reduced number…

[waggy]

I think the pac 12 and acc are going to join forces in a way for the media deal. It will get acc out of their wretched deal, get the pac 12 something, and help boost the acc network that ESPN has a big financial interest in.

Way too many complications for this to happen.

[Xville]

Way too many complications for this to happen.

Maybe. Its being talked about preliminarily but yes there are a lot of balls in the air. The PAC 12 is going to have to do something unique...otherwise i think they are effed way more than the Big 12 or ACC.

[xubrew]

I believe cal will eventually get in. The next pac12 media deal will be interesting.

Doubtful. I don't think the Big Ten will look to add anyone else in the foreseeable future, and if they do they seem to be far more interested in Washington and Oregon than Cal. They'd take Stanford before they'd take Cal. The only school who would have any interest at all in Cal would be UCLA, and taking recent events into consideration I bet no one at UCLA wants them other than the BOR.

[xubrew]

I think the pac 12 and acc are going to join forces in a way for the media deal. It will get acc out of their wretched deal, get the pac 12 something, and help boost the acc network that ESPN has a big financial interest in.

I think the Big 12 might come after Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools. I'm not sure if the ACC is going to really look to do anything. They seem content for now.

[xudash]

I think the Big 12 might come after Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools. I'm not sure if the ACC is going to really look to do anything. They seem content for now.

I believe they are anything but content. They do not like the idea of getting financially boat raced by the B1G and SEC for a locked in decade. More to the point, the weaker among them probably are more relieved than content that they have a stay of execution for some more time, while the perceived stronger among them are rattling the bars of their GOR jail.

[xubrew]

I believe they are anything but content. They do not like the idea of getting financially boat raced by the B1G and SEC for a locked in decade. More to the point, the weaker among them probably are more relieved than content that they have a stay of execution for some more time, while the perceived stronger among them are rattling the bars of their GOR jail.

Well, I only know what I can see. The Big 12 is seemingly looking at (and perhaps even reaching out to) as many as nine different schools for continued expansion, and based on how their recent TV contract addresses expansion, then one can look at the Big 12 and reasonably conclude that they're still looking to expand.

The ACC is basically just sitting there. At least from what I can tell. Maybe they're not content, but they're certainly not taking any apparent action either.

[xupuck10]

Saw this news today: St. Thomas Announces Record-Breaking, $75 Million Gift for Multiuse Arena (https://tommiesports.com/news/2023/1/17/Arena.aspx). St. Thomas has made a lot of movement in their athletics program over the past five years, including a move from DIII to DI.

I know this is probably premature, but I think they could be a great 5-10 year strategic plan to move to the Big East. They bring the Minneapolis tv market (#14 nationwide - bigger than Cincinnati, Indy, Milwaukee), a like-minded private Catholic university now showing a significant investment in athletics. Some of their sports are starting to succeed, and if they can continue to grow, I think it could be worth some consideration.

[MHettel]

Never heard of it

[X-band '01]

Honestly, they're in the right geographic area in the Summit League, but the Missouri Valley Conference is probably going to be their ceiling at this point.

[JTG]

Saw this news today: St. Thomas Announces Record-Breaking, $75 Million Gift for Multiuse Arena (https://tommiesports.com/news/2023/1/17/Arena.aspx). St. Thomas has made a lot of movement in their athletics program over the past five years, including a move from DIII to DI.

I know this is probably premature, but I think they could be a great 5-10 year strategic plan to move to the Big East. They bring the Minneapolis tv market (#14 nationwide - bigger than Cincinnati, Indy, Milwaukee), a like-minded private Catholic university now showing a significant investment in athletics. Some of their sports are starting to succeed, and if they can continue to grow, I think it could be worth some consideration.

Ummm, No. You gotta learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run. Summit, the A10 and maybe in 2075 the Big East. As a side note media folks in Indy are stating out loud again, as they were last year that maybe Butler is in over their head in the Big East. That they should have stayed in the A10. Folk saying the Big East is a different style, different recruiting, than what Butler basketball is. They have lost 5 BE games by 20+ points.

[Xville]

Ummm, No. You gotta learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run. Summit, the A10 and maybe in 2075 the Big East. As a side note media folks in Indy are stating out loud again, as they were last year that maybe Butler is in over their head in the Big East. That they should have stayed in the A10. Folk saying the Big East is a different style, different recruiting, than what Butler basketball is. They have lost 5 BE games by 20+ points.

Shows what one bad coaching hire can do to a program. Unfortunately, it looks like they may have made two in a row. Thad looks like a 90, 55 year old.

[xupuck10]

Ummm, No. You gotta learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run. Summit, the A10 and maybe in 2075 the Big East. As a side note media folks in Indy are stating out loud again, as they were last year that maybe Butler is in over their head in the Big East. That they should have stayed in the A10. Folk saying the Big East is a different style, different recruiting, than what Butler basketball is. They have lost 5 BE games by 20+ points.

I hear that, but there are a couple of programs that have made pretty meteoric rises recently. TCU comes to mind most recently, going from the WAC in 2000 to the CFP in 2022 - hell they were still in the Mountain West in 2011.

Another interesting fact, UST's endowment is more than twice (nearly three times) that of Butler. I'm not saying now, I'm thinking in 10 years or so.

[Masterofreality]

Honestly, they're in the right geographic area in the Summit League, but the Missouri Valley Conference is probably going to be their ceiling at this point.

Correct. Loyola is learning that the second conference move up is the toughest.
I had a friend who went to St. Thomas. Nice school, but yeah. They’d be great eventually in the Valley.
Big East? No way.
And I really don’t want Butler to leave. That opens the door for the VD honks to start spewing about entrance again.
If you are looking at TV market replacement only I’d take St. Louis if Butler leaves

[GoMuskies]

I'm more worried about Georgetown to the Patriot League than I am about Butler leaving. Georgetown is one messed up institution right now.

[Masterofreality]

I'm more worried about Georgetown to the Patriot League than I am about Butler leaving. Georgetown is one messed up institution right now.

In many ways. Their recent “going woke” pattern is going poorly.
And everyone knows that they have to finally cut ties with the Thompson tree, but that goes against the DC grain. JT Jr. had a popular radio show on in DC for years after he stopped coaching. That institution has some tough decisions to make

[MHettel]

I'm more worried about Georgetown to the Patriot League than I am about Butler leaving. Georgetown is one messed up institution right now.

How about Calipari to GTown next year. That should get things kickstarted.

[Xville]

How about Calipari to GTown next year. That should get things kickstarted.

Pitino is going to look great there. The decision should stop and end there imo.

[usfldan]

The PAC-12 is looking at San Diego State and SMU?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-expansion-with-san-diego-state-smu-may-be-necessary-before-league-inks-new-media-rights-deal/

[waggy]

San Diego State doesn’t have a conference. Mountain West wants their money. Ha ha. Crazy shit.

[JTG]

San Diego State doesn’t have a conference. Mountain West wants their money. Ha ha. Crazy shit.

Yeah, that's a move that backfired. Probably the league's attorneys told them you better make this move to prevent others from trying it. And everyone knows SDSU is just doing this for a year while hunting a new home.

[waggy]

I don't know if it's official yet, but lots of reports of Colorado moving to the Big12.

[xudash]

From HLOH yesterday:

Tomorrow might possibly be D-Day for the PAC.

Rumors swirling that the TV package offer is through Apple (less exposure) and $20 million AAV per member (less money). If true, every school will look to jump. Arizona is strongly rumored to also be headed to the Big 12, possibly with ASU and Utah.

For the Big East, UConn is likely off the table for now, with Gonzaga still very much available for a relatively cheap add to guarantee Fox more west coast exposure. The next few months will be telling.

Noise down here from the Florida State people about FSU, Clemson, Washington and Oregon to the B1G. They are adamant about breaking away from the GOR handcuffs whatever it takes. Sitting around for more than a decade like this isn't going to work.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It has seemed increasingly less likely over the past few days that UConn will be heading to the Big12. The downfall of the PAC likely means UConn stays put for now.

[MHettel]

I really dont enjoy all of this. Its interesting that the BE adding Gonzaga discussion seems to actually have some legs.

Wondering what would come next if the ACC lost FSU and Clemson. Gotta assume that Miami will be thinking about football FIRST and would want to move along as well. UVA and UNC and NCST would likely have alot of options if they wanted out.

Cuse, Wake, Duke & BC would seem to have less control of what happens.

ND would get interesting if the ACC lost the top Football schools, given their commitment to play like 4 games a year against the ACC.. I'm SURE ND isn't bound by the Grant of Rights like the others. Would they finally decide to join a football conference (B10), or would they just want to stay in the watered down ACC presumably WITHOUT the commitment to play FB against them? Would the BE become an Option for ND at that point? Could Fox entice ND to the BE by bidding on the ND football deal away from NBC?

So many iterations of this....

[drudy23]

Adding Gonzaga to the Big East would be great for the conference.

While we're at it, let's just grab Duke and their football program can go independent. Not like anyone cares about it anyway.

Screw Syracuse, mostly because everyone hates Boeheim (yes I know he's gone).

[GoMuskies]

While we're at it, let's just grab Duke and their football program can go independent. Not like anyone cares about it anyway.


Worked for UConn. Why not?

[xudash]

It has seemed increasingly less likely over the past few days that UConn will be heading to the Big12. The downfall of the PAC likely means UConn stays put for now.

You could not be more spot on about that.

At this moment, the ONLY thing that matters with all of this movement is that UCONN remains locked out from being able to move anywhere.

The Big East continues to inch its way towards the negotiating process for our new media deal.

Consider this:

1. UCONN remains in the Big East.
2. Pitino is in the league - in New York.
3. Cooley has his work cut out for him, but Georgetown is poised to wake up.
4. Xavier has Sean Miller.
5. Shaka is succeeding at Marquette.

Now for sounding a little crazy - possibly/maybe. Conference realignment at the highest level will eventually find its water mark and slow to a crawl, or stop for a while. Even now, with the B1G and SEC having done what they've done, the sifting has cleared most of the gold nuggets from the rocks and silver. Texas, Oklahoma, USC and UCLA are prime examples of marquee/major programs finding bigger stages moving forward. Yes, there is silver among the gold in those two conferences (e.g. Vandy, IU, Maryland, Rutgers), but that is what that is - they were already there or they brought cable money along with them when they joined.

What about the silver remaining in the other 3 so called P5 conferences? That's where we are now, sorting that out. A betting man would say that the PAC is finished. $20mm and Apple streaming is a death sentence. I'm not a happy fellow if I'm a huge football fan of Washington State or Oregon State right now.

The Big 12 may very well come out of this being the third, albeit red headed step child. At least it will still be in the family, so to speak.

That leaves the ACC. The "elite" programs in that conference want out. Period. End of story. FSU and Clemson are dying to get unshackled from the ACC GOR and from the ACC. Once you get past those two programs and perhaps Miami and UNC, silver turns to copper. At the end of the day, you end up with great institutions that have and had no right earning the same amount of media money as major land grant universities with 100k-like stadiums.

So, now for the crazy - since I assume by now you see where I'm taking this: Syracuse in the Big East within 5 years.

[xudash]

EDIT: Research and understanding are your friends.

I have to step back on my earlier prognostication. Syracuse in the Big East within 5 years most likely isn't happening, unless some form of collective acquiescence takes place in the ACC after the unbalanced revenue sharing arrangement kicks in and the frustration leads to an inverted form of "let us out of here!"

Seriously, read this and a lot of this becomes much clearer: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-rankings-georgia-near-unanimous-no-1-as-sec-dominates-top-of-2023-preseason-cbs-sports-133/

For those of you who are corporate attorneys, you'll be grinning at some of the saviness that was used in structuring these deals, including bypassing state law influence by incorporating in Delaware.

[X-band '01]

You could not be more spot on about that.

At this moment, the ONLY thing that matters with all of this movement is that UCONN remains locked out from being able to move anywhere.

The Big East continues to inch its way towards the negotiating process for our new media deal.

Consider this:

1. UCONN remains in the Big East.
2. Pitino is in the league - in New York.
3. Cooley has his work cut out for him, but Georgetown is poised to wake up.
4. Xavier has Sean Miller.
5. Shaka is succeeding at Marquette.

Now for sounding a little crazy - possibly/maybe. Conference realignment at the highest level will eventually find its water mark and slow to a crawl, or stop for a while. Even now, with the B1G and SEC having done what they've done, the sifting has cleared most of the gold nuggets from the rocks and silver. Texas, Oklahoma, USC and UCLA are prime examples of marquee/major programs finding bigger stages moving forward. Yes, there is silver among the gold in those two conferences (e.g. Vandy, IU, Maryland, Rutgers), but that is what that is - they were already there or they brought cable money along with them when they joined.

What about the silver remaining in the other 3 so called P5 conferences? That's where we are now, sorting that out. A betting man would say that the PAC is finished. $20mm and Apple streaming is a death sentence. I'm not a happy fellow if I'm a huge football fan of Washington State or Oregon State right now.

The Big 12 may very well come out of this being the third, albeit red headed step child. At least it will still be in the family, so to speak.

That leaves the ACC. The "elite" programs in that conference want out. Period. End of story. FSU and Clemson are dying to get unshackled from the ACC GOR and from the ACC. Once you get past those two programs and perhaps Miami and UNC, silver turns to copper. At the end of the day, you end up with great institutions that have and had no right earning the same amount of media money as major land grant universities with 100k-like stadiums.

So, now for the crazy - since I assume by now you see where I'm taking this: Syracuse in the Big East within 5 years.

Just because Florida State will likely be in a worse position than Central Florida for the foreseeable future is no reason for them to try to get our of their current GOR deal.

Right?

[X-band '01]

Ditto Miami, only with a much more fickle fanbase than FSU.

[MHettel]

You could not be more spot on about that.

At this moment, the ONLY thing that matters with all of this movement is that UCONN remains locked out from being able to move anywhere.

The Big East continues to inch its way towards the negotiating process for our new media deal.

Consider this:

1. UCONN remains in the Big East.
2. Pitino is in the league - in New York.
3. Cooley has his work cut out for him, but Georgetown is poised to wake up.
4. Xavier has Sean Miller.
5. Shaka is succeeding at Marquette.

Now for sounding a little crazy - possibly/maybe. Conference realignment at the highest level will eventually find its water mark and slow to a crawl, or stop for a while. Even now, with the B1G and SEC having done what they've done, the sifting has cleared most of the gold nuggets from the rocks and silver. Texas, Oklahoma, USC and UCLA are prime examples of marquee/major programs finding bigger stages moving forward. Yes, there is silver among the gold in those two conferences (e.g. Vandy, IU, Maryland, Rutgers), but that is what that is - they were already there or they brought cable money along with them when they joined.

What about the silver remaining in the other 3 so called P5 conferences? That's where we are now, sorting that out. A betting man would say that the PAC is finished. $20mm and Apple streaming is a death sentence. I'm not a happy fellow if I'm a huge football fan of Washington State or Oregon State right now.

The Big 12 may very well come out of this being the third, albeit red headed step child. At least it will still be in the family, so to speak.

That leaves the ACC. The "elite" programs in that conference want out. Period. End of story. FSU and Clemson are dying to get unshackled from the ACC GOR and from the ACC. Once you get past those two programs and perhaps Miami and UNC, silver turns to copper. At the end of the day, you end up with great institutions that have and had no right earning the same amount of media money as major land grant universities with 100k-like stadiums.

So, now for the crazy - since I assume by now you see where I'm taking this: Syracuse in the Big East within 5 years.

I could see the BE with 16 teams in 5 years. Cuse, Duke, Wake, BC, Gonzaga, ND, would all be candidates. Anyone currently in the SEC or B10 that meets the BE profile would not move (Vandy, Northwestern).

[GoMuskies]

Northwestern

We don't do hazing in this league.

[xudash]

Just because Florida State will likely be in a worse position than Central Florida for the foreseeable future is no reason for them to try to get our of their current GOR deal.

Right?

So true. And whoever saw that one coming! That's like guessing the NCAA Bracket to the tune of 100%.

[sirthought]

I wouldn't be so quick to say a streaming deal like Apple (or someone similar) is necessarily a long term loser. It might be viewed that way today. But it's early days for media companies to see what models works and what programs are going to add to their bottom line. ESPN+ is essentially a stream only setup that conferences like the Mac are getting minimal benefit from. Other competitors could change that landscape and give schools better resources.

It could be an overall positive for subscriptions + advertising from what someone like Apple has today, thus worthy of expanded investment. They are looking for reasons to subscribe and sports might be cheaper that finding the next hit drama.

This doesn't make a conference like the Pac 12 look so much better today or next week. But if the realignments start considering school size/alumni base and potential eyeballs, there could be some creative marketing that makes some programs really attractive for investment.

[xudash]

I wouldn't be so quick to say a streaming deal like Apple (or someone similar) is necessarily a long term loser. It might be viewed that way today. But it's early days for media companies to see what models works and what programs are going to add to their bottom line. ESPN+ is essentially a stream only setup that conferences like the Mac are getting minimal benefit from. Other competitors could change that landscape and give schools better resources.

It could be an overall positive for subscriptions + advertising from what someone like Apple has today, thus worthy of expanded investment. They are looking for reasons to subscribe and sports might be cheaper that finding the next hit drama.

This doesn't make a conference like the Pac 12 look so much better today or next week. But if the realignments start considering school size/alumni base and potential eyeballs, there could be some creative marketing that makes some programs really attractive for investment.

It’s about whether or not it is attractive vis-à-vis other options today, and it isn’t.

ESPN reporting that Oregon and Washington may be coming to the B1G. Conference authorities have cleared the process. They would come in at a reduced share.

[X-band '01]

As in reduced share for perpetuity or simply a reduced share that eventually becomes a full share like Maryland and Rutgers?

[Seven Eighths]

The recent movements in the B12 and PAC are exactly why the BE doesn’t need to rush to add the likes of SLU or UD. Even Gonzaga makes little sense at this time.

The new Big 12 like the BE football conference before them will be too big and split or get picked down to a new AAC over time. Coast to coast conferences are not feasible long term for most universities. The B12 is adding average programs.

The ACC is next. Do they add wisely before being picked apart or go down the PAC’s path?

Big time basketball programs with average to crappy football may soon be available to the BE.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Coast to coast conferences are not feasible long term for most universities.



What evidence do you have of this?

In this ever changing landscape, adding any schools who have football (save and independent like ND) makes little sense to me for the BE.

You are at constant risk of them fleeing at the next realignment. Even UConn, the most perfect fit of any team that does have football (again, save maybe ND) has been rumored all summer to be leaving for Big 12. Only reason they havent is they havent been offered.

[Seven Eighths]

The costs for non football sports will cause major problems over time. There is a reason UCLA wasn’t in the ACC.

The programs I speak about as potential adds would be forced to dump football or go the UCONN route. It’s chaos right now. What will happen is hard to predict.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The costs for non football sports will cause major problems over time. There is a reason UCLA wasn’t in the ACC.

The programs I speak about as potential adds would be forced to dump football or go the UCONN route. It’s chaos right now. What will happen is hard to predict.

I think you are underestimating the amount of money we are talking about that these schools are leaving for. Money will not be an issue for travel for the other sports. The reason UCLA wasn't in the ACC was because back in the day money was an issue. And there was probably more of an emphasis on the student part of student athlete.

Also, those schools are not dropping football, that is the money maker, even for the schools who aren't good. Also going to UConn route has not kept UConn from being discussed as bailing on the BE after only a couple of seasons being back. No thanks to dealing with that every year for multiple teams.

[Seven Eighths]

There is money in maybe two conferences to make it work coast to coast. Not for the B12 programs.

The losers in this will have little choices.

[paulxu]

My idea of 4 X 16 for conferences is starting to look like 3 X 20...or worse, 2 X 25.

[Seven Eighths]

My idea of 4 X 16 for conferences is starting to look like 3 X 20...or worse, 2 X 25.

Yeah, I can see two 24 team conferences first with each potentially absorbing 2-6 more programs. Each conference with a west, central and east division.

The ACC might live on with enough teams but I don’t see the B12 surviving and the PAC is mostly dead now.

[sirthought]

This Pat Forde commentary is on the nose in my opinion.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/02/college-sports-soulless-spiral

[Seven Eighths]

Two Conferences:

Big

Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Maryland
Michigan State
Indiana
Rutgers
Purdue
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Northwestern
UCLA
USC
ND
UNC
Virginia
Kansas
Oregon
Iowa State
Washington
Stanford

SEC

Georgia
Tennessee
South Carolina
Kentucky
Florida
Missouri
Vanderbilt
Alabama
LSU
Miss St. .
Mississippi
Arkansas
Auburn
Texas A&M
Texas
Oklahoma
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Georgia Tech
Oklahoma State
Arizona
Texas Tech
Kansas State

New ACC

Boston College
UCONN
Duke
Houston
Louisville
NC State
Pitt
Syracuse
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Temple/UC/UCF/USF/Memphis (just one of them)



Utah, Cal, Colorado, ASU, BYU and Baylor could be invited if each Big 2 goes to 30 along with some from the new ACC.

I’m not saying it will be exactly like this but we are closing in on something like this in the next 5-10 years if not sooner. I heard Clemson is looking to go Independent for football only. Crazy times

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why do you think the ACC is in a better position than the Big 12?

[paulxu]

If the 2 Pac 12 teams the B10 wants are planning to leave, do they sign this?

https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1687453350135005184

[Seven Eighths]

Why do you think the ACC is in a better position than the Big 12?

Partly due to location of the programs. There is not one team in the current B12 that wouldn’t leave right now for the SEC or B10. The ACC schools can’t leave right now.

[MHettel]

I always though a 4x16 arrangement with each conference having 2- 8 team divisions would set up perfectly for a CFB championship. 8 division winners make it. Maybe take 4 other at-large teams and have them play against the weakest of the division winners and then you've basically got a sweet 16.

But the Pac 12 getting demolished takes that off the table. The idea was that the 4 conferences. kind of had SOME degree of alignment geographically.

what we have now is a giant mess

[bjf123]

This Pat Forde commentary is on the nose in my opinion.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/02/college-sports-soulless-spiral

Agreed. It’s all about greed. The “student athletes” are not really much of a concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

Agreed. It’s all about greed. The “student athletes” are not really much of a concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Careful, a comment like that and you'll be accused of being "woke" and told to move to San Francisco!

[D-West & PO-Z]

This Pat Forde commentary is on the nose in my opinion.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/02/college-sports-soulless-spiral

This is spot on and all I was saying the other day before I caught some wrath.

"It’s all deeply insulting and hypocritical for a bunch of millionaire leaders who bloviate about “student-athlete welfare,” then assign them geographically ridiculous tasks. The leaders of college athletes don’t care about the athletes, or the fans. They’ll push them both to the breaking point in search of a higher profit margin."

[Xville]

Yep. This is the real problem that could cause the enterprise of college sports to be torn down, not the transfer rule or nil.

I hate what this is doing to the natural rivalries and conferences vs conferences. It’s getting ridiculous.

[bobbiemcgee]

Cmon AM...We need the dominoes to fall if we ever want to get out of the A10

Needed a laugh today.

[xudash]

Wow. Just wow.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/third-party-influence-may-soon-shake-foundation-of-college-football-impacting-conferences-programs/

My conditioned "old school; collegiate; business analyst" thought process: UCONN isn't worth $31mm per year in media payouts within the Big 12.

The attached article? Uhm, go "F" yourself. This is about buying low and selling high.

You'll run into the UCONN discussion towards the bottom of the article. Just know that, before you get to that piece, your jaw will already be firmly planted into the floor.

BTW, if the hedge fund and private equity guys could find a way to rip out perfectly groomed 200 year old ivy from the walls of some college buildings and sell it for some premium smoking product, they would do it.

[drudy23]

Silver lining in this is that since the Pac12 is imploding, it's now not a landing spot for Gonzaga.

They will either stand pat, which I don't see long-term, or move to the Big 12 or Big East. If UConn leaves, perhaps we snatch up Gonzaga.

The ACC is also on the verge of collapse. Several elite and quality programs for the Big East to pick up (Duke for sure, Wake? ND?)

[xudash]

Silver lining in this is that since the Pac12 is imploding, it's now not a landing spot for Gonzaga.

They will either stand pat, which I don't see long-term, or move to the Big 12 or Big East. If UConn leaves, perhaps we snatch up Gonzaga.

The ACC is also on the verge of collapse. Several elite and quality programs for the Big East to pick up (Duke for sure, Wake? ND?)

Agree on Gonzaga. Gonzaga CANNOT stay in the WCC and believe that they'll be operating from a stable, viable conference platform on a long term basis. Compounding their problem is the fact that they're located in Spokane, WA, insofar as it is neither a media hotbed nor a NIL-generating location.

Where the Big East may be in good position for having Gonzaga available to it for expansion is the fact that, while Yormark is making noise about the idea of monetizing basketball on a more direct basis, too much of the current realignment activity is still very desperately focused on football maneuvering. IMHO, there is simply too much energy and focus on crunching the football media numbers and moves at this point, leaving no room to get around the table and fuss about basketball "value."

[UCGRAD4X]

I had been maintaining that the saving grace for some of the non-SEC-B1G conferences is the new playoff format. Being guaranteed an opportunity in the playoffs (such as it is) would at least keep them somewhat relevant for the immediate future. I wondered why the big conferences would agree to that when most of the playoff teams (maybe all) could have come from their conferences. Maybe the implosion of these other conferences moves them more in that direction anyway, while still maintaining the perception that they are all for giving more teams opportunities and a overall (false) sense of parity.

[nickgyp]

This Pat Forde commentary is on the nose in my opinion.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/02/college-sports-soulless-spiral

Agree itÂ’s an excellent article and the train has left the station. For the schools that are cars on that train they will forever more separate from those schools still at the station. As sad as that is to see, I am not sure it changes much from the reality of todayÂ’s college athletic scene wher e the power schools dominate anyway with lower division schools still somewhat resembling what college athletics are all about. Winning Division II, Division III and NAIA championships can still be very satisfying. Sure such a championship is not the Big Enchilada but to do these right, it might be the best to hope for given todayÂ’s scenario where NILs dominate and concerns for an education are lost.

Attending games at Schmidt Fieldhouse and Corcoran Field as a youngster, I was never under the illusion that Xavier wins were on par with those of UCLA or Norte Dame, respectively. But wins over UC, Miami and Dayton were still very sweet.

If the cost of playing with the big boys becomes too, prohibitive then perhaps Xavier should not compete at that level. There will be other DI that do not and a nice athletic niche can be found.

[xudash]

I had been maintaining that the saving grace for some of the non-SEC-B1G conferences is the new playoff format. Being guaranteed an opportunity in the playoffs (such as it is) would at least keep them somewhat relevant for the immediate future. I wondered why the big conferences would agree to that when most of the playoff teams (maybe all) could have come from their conferences. Maybe the implosion of these other conferences moves them more in that direction anyway, while still maintaining the perception that they are all for giving more teams opportunities and a overall (false) sense of parity.

You'll find that they covered that issue in the linked article above. It's set up with "more inclusion" initially, but the B1G and SEC have every intention of grabbing most of the slots, as they see themselves being the primary drivers of value at this point.

In other words, even the 12-team playoff format will evolve, and it will do so in a way unfavorable to G5 and lower level P5 schools, if you still want to make those distinctive categories.

[MHettel]

Agree on Gonzaga. Gonzaga CANNOT stay in the WCC and believe that they'll be operating from a stable, viable conference platform on a long term basis. Compounding their problem is the fact that they're located in Spokane, WA, insofar as it is neither a media hotbed nor a NIL-generating location.

Where the Big East may be in good position for having Gonzaga available to it for expansion is the fact that, while Yormark is making noise about the idea of monetizing basketball on a more direct basis, too much of the current realignment activity is still very desperately focused on football maneuvering. IMHO, there is simply too much energy and focus on crunching the football media numbers and moves at this point, leaving no room to get around the table and fuss about basketball "value."

All the recent decisions have been about football, unquestionably. However, its been more about the quality of the MARKET than it is of the TEAM. Colorado is garbage....but they are in Denver.

Gonzaga offers neither football nor a desirable market. I cannot see any football minded conference even giving them a whiff.

I think the BE should be very aggressive right now. Obivouly the Zags and maybe St. Marys as well. ND if they can pull it off. The ACC uncertainty cant be a positive for ND. To address travel, the BE would need to shift the footprint West a bit. Witchita State isnt a natural fit for demographics, but would faciliate the Westward lean.

I hope the BE doesnt just sit there and at a MINIMUM plays defernce against any UConn poachning

[XUGRAD80]

I’ve enjoyed 50+ seasons of Xavier Basketball and UC football games and neither school has ever been a real challenger for a national championship. I’m sure that 90% of the fans of other schools can say the same thing. I think that some people put way to much emphasis on the national championship tournaments and how much being able to compete for national championships actually influences sports fandom….especially football fandom.

[Masterofreality]

All the recent decisions have been about football, unquestionably. However, its been more about the quality of the MARKET than it is of the TEAM. Colorado is garbage....but they are in Denver.


*Near Denver.

However, the overall point stands.
But I have zero desire to have Gonzaga in the Big East. The locations just don’t work.
The only way is if Fox ups the Money significantly. Let Gonzaga do a deal with the Pac12 leftovers. I’ll wait for Notre Dame if there’s BE expansion.

[Masterofreality]

This is spot on and all I was saying the other day before I caught some wrath.

"It’s all deeply insulting and hypocritical for a bunch of millionaire leaders who bloviate about “student-athlete welfare,” then assign them geographically ridiculous tasks. The leaders of college athletes don’t care about the athletes, or the fans. They’ll push them both to the breaking point in search of a higher profit margin."

Hence why Gonzaga should not be in the Big East

[X-band '01]

To put it another way, the Big East has two years left on its current media deal.

DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, follow the Pac-12 playbook when it comes to negotiating the next TV deal. Notice how the house of cards completely collapsed once they leaked out the potential Apple deal.

[X-band '01]

As in reduced share for perpetuity or simply a reduced share that eventually becomes a full share like Maryland and Rutgers?

ESPN - Oregon and Washington finalizing move to Big Ten per sources (https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38134021/big-ten-set-send-invites-oregon-washington-sources-say)

Looks like the partial share that Oregon and Washington will get will be for the next 6 seasons of the B1G current media deal that will go through the 2029-30 season. And that's still a good 5-6 years before the ACC gets out of its current grant-of-rights hell if they don't make any other moves.

[Seven Eighths]

All the recent decisions have been about football, unquestionably. However, its been more about the quality of the MARKET than it is of the TEAM. Colorado is garbage....but they are in Denver.

Gonzaga offers neither football nor a desirable market. I cannot see any football minded conference even giving them a whiff.

I think the BE should be very aggressive right now. Obivouly the Zags and maybe St. Marys as well. ND if they can pull it off. The ACC uncertainty cant be a positive for ND. To address travel, the BE would need to shift the footprint West a bit. Witchita State isnt a natural fit for demographics, but would faciliate the Westward lean.

I hope the BE doesnt just sit there and at a MINIMUM plays defernce against any UConn poachning

No need to rush to add Gonzaga. They have no where to go. Certainly little need to add any other schools either. Let the chaos ensue and profit.

[xu82]

To put it another way, the Big East has two years left on its current media deal.

DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, follow the Pac-12 playbook when it comes to negotiating the next TV deal. Notice how the house of cards completely collapsed once they leaked out the potential Apple deal.

I’m sorry, I may not be accurately reading between the lines here. It’s a bit too subtle for my simple mind. So, are you saying………….?

[XUGRAD80]

ESPN reporting that AZ St and Utah have formally applied for B12 membership today…..with AZ and CO that will make it a 16 team league.


Edit to add……and they were approved unanimously. Surprise Surprise

[bjf123]

Careful, a comment like that and you'll be accused of being "woke" and told to move to San Francisco!

Them’s fightin’ words!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

What do you do if you go in a room to sign the new conference GOR…and there’s nobody there ?

[XUGRAD80]

When the B12 had dropped down to 8 schools, the PAC made no attempts to help them out, and showed no interest in any type of consolidation or merger. I think it is ironic now that it’s the B12 that will continue on and the PAC that is seemingly going to disappear.

[nickgyp]

I’ve enjoyed 50+ seasons of Xavier Basketball and UC football games and neither school has ever been a real challenger for a national championship. I’m sure that 90% of the fans of other schools can say the same thing. I think that some people put way to much emphasis on the national championship tournaments and how much being able to compete for national championships actually influences sports fandom….especially football fandom.

100% agree. Many times we make athletic events to be way more than they should be. Why can’t a game simply be enough as just watching your school beating a rival in some friendly competition. Or losing the same? Wonderful that Xavier beat UC last years in hoops. Exciting game and enjoyed it immensely but Xavier’s team won the game. I did not win it.

Life goes on.

[waggy]

Some things I'm taking away from all the realignment talk over the last many days is that at the next BE media negotiation that there needs to be a real look at shoring up the membership if necessary. Maybe exit fees may need to be punitive. Should media contracts be shorter? If longer, should they include a GOR?

[Masterofreality]

Whatever will Bill Walton now scream about since his beloved “Conference of Champions”’ has evaporated?
Bill right now: In his basement with a tie-dye T shirt and no pants deeply inhaling a bong. (Oh, that’s everyday)

I guess the “PAC 12 Network” wasn’t a cure all, huh?

[waggy]

Mor there’s some smoke around be teams moving…

[JTG]

Mor there’s some smoke around be teams moving…

Would you like to expand on that?

[Masterofreality]

Per the Wall Street Journal:

The Big 12’s Brand Value:

Added +$1,121,711,347 (Arizona, Arizona St, BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado, Houston, UCF, Utah)

Lost -$1,991,051,431 (Oklahoma, Texas)

That’s a total loss of -$869.3MM after adding 8 new schools.

I guess the Borecats are somewhat errrrr… flaccid?

[MHettel]

Per the Wall Street Journal:

The Big 12’s Brand Value:

Added +$1,121,711,347 (Arizona, Arizona St, BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado, Houston, UCF, Utah)

Lost -$1,991,051,431 (Oklahoma, Texas)

That’s a total loss of -$869.3MM after adding 8 new schools.

I guess the Borecats are somewhat errrrr… flaccid?

Yeah, I think the B12s latest moves were more about playing defense than offense. If they sat back and did nothing, then they ran the risk of being picked apart, which is ultimately what happened to the PAC 12.

The BiG 12 has what 16 teams. It’s a “football” league? Who’s the top dog? OK state? Baylor? Utah? K state? BYU? Am I forgetting someone? Honestly, no premium football brands at all. Kansas and Arizona are premium BBall.

[xudash]

Yeah, I think the B12s latest moves were more about playing defense than offense. If they sat back and did nothing, then they ran the risk of being picked apart, which is ultimately what happened to the PAC 12.

The BiG 12 has what 16 teams. It’s a “football” league? Who’s the top dog? OK state? Baylor? Utah? K state? BYU? Am I forgetting someone? Honestly, no premium football brands at all. Kansas and Arizona are premium BBall.

If you don’t mind, I will prove your point with one comical observation: you left out TCU, and they were in the championship game last year! Of course, they were completely throttled in it, but they were still in it. They just won’t likely be in it in the future.

[X-band '01]

Whatever will Bill Walton now scream about since his beloved “Conference of Champions”’ has evaporated?
Bill right now: In his basement with a tie-dye T shirt and no pants deeply inhaling a bong. (Oh, that’s everyday)

I guess the “PAC 12 Network” wasn’t a cure all, huh?

The B1G can have that mantle now. How could you not be down with Bill Walton hitting the streets of Madison on a January winter night?

[waggy]

Would you like to expand on that?

Some discussion on the UConn Boneyard realignment boards. I couldn't tell you which thread exactly. There have been comments about the B12 going after SJU, GTown, etc. You may think that's silly and I would agree, but FOX is paying less than 5M at program, so it doesn't take much to swipe someone if they're attention whores.

[xudash]

Waggy, that activity was from a little while ago. Tazmanian Yormark isn’t spinning with that one anymore. We may or may not lose UCONN in this round, but I seriously don’t see other BE members exiting for the Big 12.

[xudash]

Some fuzzy math and a bunch of averages, but some interesting data and calculations:


This is not a rant or a complaint, I'm genuinely curious. And I'm sorry if something similar has been posted before, I don't frequent the Boneyard.

It's common knowledge that Football drives realignment. That gets repeated over and over and over. But I've never heard a good reason as to why. Surely it must be TV Ratings, but that bothers me. Are football ratings really that much better than MBB ratings? I tried finding some apples:apples comparisons of the regular seasons but that's proven to be difficult. Ideally, I wanted to compare UConn MBB ratings vs CFB Ratings of a Arizona/ASU/Utah, but couldn't find all the numbers I wanted.

Here's what I could find for regular season only:
Big East Basketball games on Fox networks averaged 779,000 viewers per game last season.
Overall, MBB (all schools) averaged 371,000 viewers per game during the regular season.

Arizona football averaged 815,000 viewers per game during the season
Week 4 CFB (across all teams) averaged 1.6M viewers per game


So let's just take the worst number from CBB, 371,000 viewers per game. Well each team plays 30-35 games in the regular season. 371,000 x 32 = 11,872,000 viewers for the average MBB team during the regular season.
Do that just for the BE teams and that's 779,000 x 32 = 24,928,000 viewers over the entire season for the average team. UConn would be above that avg but I could not find their specific numbers.

Okay now for football. They play about 12 regular season games
Arizona Football 815,000 viewers per game x 12 games = 9,780,000 viewers per season
Week 4 CFB (all teams) 1,600,000 viewers per game x 12 games = 19,200,000 viewers per season for the average football team

So please, somebody help me understand why Arizona football is worth $30mil, but UConn MBB is worth only $6mil? I could understand the very top tier CFB teams being valued significantly over UConn, because the marque CFB game each week draws 5mil+ viewers, but we're only talking about 10-15 teams that can draw that. But there is just so much content available with MBB, I just can't wrap my head around how the networks are valuing this.

One last thought,
CFB game is 3 hours, CBB game is 2 hours, so there will be more opportunity to generate revenue on commercials per football game. However, even with that factored in:

Arizona Football: 9,780,000 viewers over the season x 3 hours = 29,340,000 viewable hours
1 average Big East MBB team 24,928,000 x 2 hours = 49,856,000 viewable hours

Please help me make sense of this.

[waggy]

Waggy, that activity was from a little while ago. Tazmanian Yormark isn’t spinning with that one anymore. We may or may not lose UCONN in this round, but I seriously don’t see other BE members exiting for the Big 12.

You may be correct that it's no longer being pursued, but the posts are only a day old.

[waggy]

Some fuzzy math and a bunch of averages, but some interesting data and calculations:


This is not a rant or a complaint, I'm genuinely curious. And I'm sorry if something similar has been posted before, I don't frequent the Boneyard.

It's common knowledge that Football drives realignment. That gets repeated over and over and over. But I've never heard a good reason as to why. Surely it must be TV Ratings, but that bothers me. Are football ratings really that much better than MBB ratings? I tried finding some apples:apples comparisons of the regular seasons but that's proven to be difficult. Ideally, I wanted to compare UConn MBB ratings vs CFB Ratings of a Arizona/ASU/Utah, but couldn't find all the numbers I wanted.

Here's what I could find for regular season only:
Big East Basketball games on Fox networks averaged 779,000 viewers per game last season.
Overall, MBB (all schools) averaged 371,000 viewers per game during the regular season.

Arizona football averaged 815,000 viewers per game during the season
Week 4 CFB (across all teams) averaged 1.6M viewers per game


So let's just take the worst number from CBB, 371,000 viewers per game. Well each team plays 30-35 games in the regular season. 371,000 x 32 = 11,872,000 viewers for the average MBB team during the regular season.
Do that just for the BE teams and that's 779,000 x 32 = 24,928,000 viewers over the entire season for the average team. UConn would be above that avg but I could not find their specific numbers.

Okay now for football. They play about 12 regular season games
Arizona Football 815,000 viewers per game x 12 games = 9,780,000 viewers per season
Week 4 CFB (all teams) 1,600,000 viewers per game x 12 games = 19,200,000 viewers per season for the average football team

So please, somebody help me understand why Arizona football is worth $30mil, but UConn MBB is worth only $6mil? I could understand the very top tier CFB teams being valued significantly over UConn, because the marque CFB game each week draws 5mil+ viewers, but we're only talking about 10-15 teams that can draw that. But there is just so much content available with MBB, I just can't wrap my head around how the networks are valuing this.

One last thought,
CFB game is 3 hours, CBB game is 2 hours, so there will be more opportunity to generate revenue on commercials per football game. However, even with that factored in:

Arizona Football: 9,780,000 viewers over the season x 3 hours = 29,340,000 viewable hours
1 average Big East MBB team 24,928,000 x 2 hours = 49,856,000 viewable hours

Please help me make sense of this.

Maybe Yormark is right, that bball is undervalued. But if so the BE is a sitting duck.

[paulxu]

Big12 has visions of being the old BE :unsure:

[waggy]

UConn is currently a FOX property. If they go to the B12 that is about 2/3 ESPN, 1/3 FOX. If they move it's because FOX wants to move them. And the other BE programs need to understand this.

[xudash]

UConn is currently a FOX property. If they go to the B12 that is about 2/3 ESPN, 1/3 FOX. If they move it's because FOX wants to move them. And the other BE programs need to understand this.

Does that partially mean that Fox would be willing to damage its BE hoop’s property?

Before you say that football always comes first, and that would be reasonable, it would be about solving for football for a diminished conference with a weak football program.

[MHettel]

I really think that ND becomes the focus next. The BiG 12 just added 4 schools. And they added THESE 4 schools before the last set of 4 schools they added has even joined the conference, and the 2 teams that left haven’t even played in their new conference. I can’t see the B12 adding basketball first schools like Uconn. It’s just way too much change to manage. The B12 had done a great job of making lemonade out of lemons after UT and OK left. They brought quantity in, and held off a raid by the PAC 12. The Big 12 won this war.

The ACC is held together legally only. Several teams would leave if they could. But they can’t.

I think there could be a couple years before the new conference configurations will need to play out.

The SEC will add Texas and OK
B10 adds 4 pretty good programs in UW, UO, UCLA and USC.
B12 adds 8 JV squads.

But the carousel has stopped. Unless WSU, OSU, Cal or Stanford find a way to join the party (they won’t).

So I hear that the ND TV contract ends after 2025? So does that make them the next to make a move? M

ND has a commitment to play 4 ACC games a year ( fact check me on 4). I’m not sure how long that will last. I’m sure ND brings MORE value to the ACC in football than the ACC does for them in basketball.

If there are 3 “superconferences” that will have the best media deals and ND comes due in 2025, then they will be looking for much more than they could get if they were in the B10. I don’t know their current deal, but 60-70 M per year seems like they can justify their independence. Is the best product they can put on TV ND vs Pitt? Or ND vs VT? Or ND vs Cuse?

No. They need to shed that ACC football baggage. And they puts them out of the ACC for BBall only ( if only because the ACC would use that as leverage).

So is ND exploring TV options soon. And old alliances may not be key to the decision process. FOX can bring a lot of $ for football. And , can solve for basketball needs as well.

This is the next moves.

On a side note, Stanford is VERY interesting right now. Independent in Football? Then what? They have first class Olympic sports. Kinda like ND.

Obviously, this all leads to…..

BE heads west. ND, Gonzaga, Stanford, St.Mary’s.

Need on more to get to 16. SLU.

[xudash]

I really think that ND becomes the focus next. The BiG 12 just added 4 schools. And they added THESE 4 schools before the last set of 4 schools they added has even joined the conference, and the 2 teams that left haven’t even played in their new conference. I can’t see the B12 adding basketball first schools like Uconn. It’s just way too much change to manage. The B12 had done a great job of making lemonade out of lemons after UT and OK left. They brought quantity in, and held off a raid by the PAC 12. The Big 12 won this war.

The ACC is held together legally only. Several teams would leave if they could. But they can’t.

I think there could be a couple years before the new conference configurations will need to play out.

The SEC will add Texas and OK
B10 adds 4 pretty good programs in UW, UO, UCLA and USC.
B12 adds 8 JV squads.

But the carousel has stopped. Unless WSU, OSU, Cal or Stanford find a way to join the party (they won’t).

So I hear that the ND TV contract ends after 2025? So does that make them the next to make a move? M

ND has a commitment to play 4 ACC games a year ( fact check me on 4). I’m not sure how long that will last. I’m sure ND brings MORE value to the ACC in football than the ACC does for them in basketball.

If there are 3 “superconferences” that will have the best media deals and ND comes due in 2025, then they will be looking for much more than they could get if they were in the B10. I don’t know their current deal, but 60-70 M per year seems like they can justify their independence. Is the best product they can put on TV ND vs Pitt? Or ND vs VT? Or ND vs Cuse?

No. They need to shed that ACC football baggage. And they puts them out of the ACC for BBall only ( if only because the ACC would use that as leverage).

So is ND exploring TV options soon. And old alliances may not be key to the decision process. FOX can bring a lot of $ for football. And , can solve for basketball needs as well.

This is the next moves.

On a side note, Stanford is VERY interesting right now. Independent in Football? Then what? They have first class Olympic sports. Kinda like ND.

Obviously, this all leads to…..

BE heads west. ND, Gonzaga, Stanford, St.Mary’s.

Need on more to get to 16. SLU.

Love this MH. Hope you’re right. Public reps.

[XUGRAD80]

TV money comes primarily from advertisers. The more advertising time that a network can sell, the more money they can make. The more popular an event is, the more they can charge for the advertising time they sell. The more money they earn, the more money they can pay out to programs…..no matter if it is sports or another kind of program. In poll after poll, football is chosen as the more popular sport, and a typical football game has 100+ minutes of advertising time compared to 63 minutes for the typical BB game. That’s a double win for football v basketball. More popular and more product to sell=more money.

[paulxu]

I think ND is normally slated to play 5 ACC games a year, although there have been years with 4. This year they’ll play 6.

[Masterofreality]

The B1G can have that mantle now. How could you not be down with Bill Walton hitting the streets of Madison on a January winter night?

Bill isn’t wearing a Hawaiian shirt in 20 degree weather in Madison in January. :-)

[X-band '01]

I don't bet against someone who eats lit cupcakes on national TV.

[xudash]

Tidbit: UC's outstanding ATHLETIC DEBT as of 2022 was approx. $185 million.

That placed them at 17th highest on the list. Berkeley is out of control at $440 million (#1).

Even Ohio State, Michigan and Texas are over $200 million, but certainly have the cash flow to service the debt.

[xu82]

TV money comes primarily from advertisers. The more advertising time that a network can sell, the more money they can make. The more popular an event is, the more they can charge for the advertising time they sell. The more money they earn, the more money they can pay out to programs…..no matter if it is sports or another kind of program. In poll after poll, football is chosen as the more popular sport, and a typical football game has 100+ minutes of advertising time compared to 63 minutes for the typical BB game. That’s a double win for football v basketball. More popular and more product to sell=more money.

I agree, football is the king of dollars, but it’s important to keep in mind a football game lasts about twice as long as a college hoops game. The minutes don’t matter much, because a new one comes on. (And I could even argue against that, as people are usually tied to one team.) Nitpicking, because I don’t mean to imply that hoops has the same value as football.

OK, I’m done arguing against myself now. :-)

[JTG]

I really think that ND becomes the focus next. The BiG 12 just added 4 schools. And they added THESE 4 schools before the last set of 4 schools they added has even joined the conference, and the 2 teams that left haven’t even played in their new conference. I can’t see the B12 adding basketball first schools like Uconn. It’s just way too much change to manage. The B12 had done a great job of making lemonade out of lemons after UT and OK left. They brought quantity in, and held off a raid by the PAC 12. The Big 12 won this war.

The ACC is held together legally only. Several teams would leave if they could. But they can’t.

I think there could be a couple years before the new conference configurations will need to play out.

The SEC will add Texas and OK
B10 adds 4 pretty good programs in UW, UO, UCLA and USC.
B12 adds 8 JV squads.

But the carousel has stopped. Unless WSU, OSU, Cal or Stanford find a way to join the party (they won’t).

So I hear that the ND TV contract ends after 2025? So does that make them the next to make a move? M

ND has a commitment to play 4 ACC games a year ( fact check me on 4). I’m not sure how long that will last. I’m sure ND brings MORE value to the ACC in football than the ACC does for them in basketball.

If there are 3 “superconferences” that will have the best media deals and ND comes due in 2025, then they will be looking for much more than they could get if they were in the B10. I don’t know their current deal, but 60-70 M per year seems like they can justify their independence. Is the best product they can put on TV ND vs Pitt? Or ND vs VT? Or ND vs Cuse?

No. They need to shed that ACC football baggage. And they puts them out of the ACC for BBall only ( if only because the ACC would use that as leverage).

So is ND exploring TV options soon. And old alliances may not be key to the decision process. FOX can bring a lot of $ for football. And , can solve for basketball needs as well.

This is the next moves.

On a side note, Stanford is VERY interesting right now. Independent in Football? Then what? They have first class Olympic sports. Kinda like ND.

Obviously, this all leads to…..

BE heads west. ND, Gonzaga, Stanford, St.Mary’s.

Need on more to get to 16. SLU.

As much as we'd all probably like this to happen, ND is very connected to NBC. Their incoming AD was formerly at NBC. Many NBC execs send their kids to school there. NBC has also hired a number of ND grads. It goes deeper than just football broadcasts. Maybe NBC & Fox get in a bidding war. I just wish Yormack would settle the hell down. It would be great to have ND, and I'm sure Fox would love it, even if they could only get a couple road fb games.

[XUGRAD80]

I agree, football is the king of dollars, but it’s important to keep in mind a football game lasts about twice as long as a college hoops game. The minutes don’t matter much, because a new one comes on. (And I could even argue against that, as people are usually tied to one team.) Nitpicking, because I don’t mean to imply that hoops has the same value as football.

OK, I’m done arguing against myself now. :-)

That is one of the key points……football games do last longer, and have many more opportunities in which to sell advertising time.

Beyond even that though….the pregame and postgame programming is also much longer and much more comprehensive in nature. That gives the networks even more opportunity to sell more advertising time. That money might not be tied directly to a certain conference, but it does provide the network more money that it has to spend on buying the grant of rights it needs to broadcast the games.

I highly recommend everyone watch the program “Saturday’s in the South, a history of SEC football” to gain some insight into what college football’s reach is in much of the country. It could have been made about the B10, B12, or ACC just as easily.

[paulxu]

Down here, that program is in the religion section. :looney:

[xu82]

Down here, that program is in the religion section. :looney:

That was a bit of a shocker for this kid who grew up in western NY. College football there is hearing scores from games like Stoneybrook vs LeHigh. College football in the southeast is something entirely different. People down here LIVE for this stuff!

[JTG]

That is one of the key points……football games do last longer, and have many more opportunities in which to sell advertising time.

Beyond even that though….the pregame and postgame programming is also much longer and much more comprehensive in nature. That gives the networks even more opportunity to sell more advertising time. That money might not be tied directly to a certain conference, but it does provide the network more money that it has to spend on buying the grant of rights it needs to broadcast the games.

I highly recommend everyone watch the program “Saturday’s in the South, a history of SEC football” to gain some insight into what college football’s reach is in much of the country. It could have been made about the B10, B12, or ACC just as easily.

Maybe certain schools in the B10, and Texas & Ok when they were in the B12, and Clem, & FSU, otherwise it's not nearly the all-consuming Religion that EVERY team in the SEC experiences.

[bjf123]

That was a bit of a shocker for this kid who grew up in western NY. College football there is hearing scores from games like Stoneybrook vs LeHigh. College football in the southeast is something entirely different. People down here LIVE for this stuff!

There are two seasons down south, football season, and waiting for football season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XUGRAD80]

Maybe certain schools in the B10, and Texas & Ok when they were in the B12, and Clem, & FSU, otherwise it's not nearly the all-consuming Religion that EVERY team in the SEC experiences.

Even in Bloomington tailgating is big……not like the SEC or like in Columbus or Ann Arbor, but it’s still big.

BB is all about the game, but football is just as much about the social experience as it is the game. Heck, some people just come for the before game party and never even make it into the game.

[bjf123]

A friend in Florida worked with someone who was a big FSU fan. He went to a couple of home games and said the tailgating started about 8:00AM, regardless of kickoff time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[waggy]

the tailgating started about 8:00AM, regardless of kickoff time.




It gets real ugly when the game doesn't start til 8 PM. Been there.

[xudash]

Even in Bloomington tailgating is big……not like the SEC or like in Columbus or Ann Arbor, but it’s still big.

BB is all about the game, but football is just as much about the social experience as it is the game. Heck, some people just come for the before game party and never even make it into the game.

That's why X needs to bring back football. Make the early investments be about a decent field, an area for folding chairs, and then a $5 million outdoor kitchen area for tailgating. Priorities.

On a more serious note, try FL /GA Weekend here in Jacksonville. It doesn't start on the weekend. It starts on TUESDAY. Tuesday is when the city opens up the area that becomes RV Village. Parties all week. Hall of Fame dinner for this game. Golf outings. From St. Simon's Island (GA) down to St. Augustine. And what really makes it rather impressive is that the stadium is split 50/50; it's like an in-season bowl game.

[JTG]

Even in Bloomington tailgating is big……not like the SEC or like in Columbus or Ann Arbor, but it’s still big.

BB is all about the game, but football is just as much about the social experience as it is the game. Heck, some people just come for the before game party and never even make it into the game.

The difference in Bloomington is the product is so horrendous that only the visiting fans go inside the stadium.

[JTG]

Now that a lot of the raiding has ended some are discussing the next step being carving off the bottom feeders from some of the big 3. Like Vandy, Miss St, Indiana, Rutgers Not sure what the Big 12 would do, half of there new members would be considered bottom feeders.

[Muskie]

Now that a lot of the raiding has ended some are discussing the next step being carving off the bottom feeders from some of the big 3. Like Vandy, Miss St, Indiana, Rutgers Not sure what the Big 12 would do, half of there new members would be considered bottom feeders.

I would be stunned if the Big Ten carved off IU. While these are decisions being made for primarily football, many of these insitutions do bring other aspects to the table athletically and acdemically.

[xupuck10]

I really think that ND becomes the focus next. The BiG 12 just added 4 schools. And they added THESE 4 schools before the last set of 4 schools they added has even joined the conference, and the 2 teams that left haven’t even played in their new conference. I can’t see the B12 adding basketball first schools like Uconn. It’s just way too much change to manage. The B12 had done a great job of making lemonade out of lemons after UT and OK left. They brought quantity in, and held off a raid by the PAC 12. The Big 12 won this war.

The ACC is held together legally only. Several teams would leave if they could. But they can’t.

I think there could be a couple years before the new conference configurations will need to play out.

The SEC will add Texas and OK
B10 adds 4 pretty good programs in UW, UO, UCLA and USC.
B12 adds 8 JV squads.

But the carousel has stopped. Unless WSU, OSU, Cal or Stanford find a way to join the party (they won’t).

So I hear that the ND TV contract ends after 2025? So does that make them the next to make a move? M

ND has a commitment to play 4 ACC games a year ( fact check me on 4). I’m not sure how long that will last. I’m sure ND brings MORE value to the ACC in football than the ACC does for them in basketball.

If there are 3 “superconferences” that will have the best media deals and ND comes due in 2025, then they will be looking for much more than they could get if they were in the B10. I don’t know their current deal, but 60-70 M per year seems like they can justify their independence. Is the best product they can put on TV ND vs Pitt? Or ND vs VT? Or ND vs Cuse?

No. They need to shed that ACC football baggage. And they puts them out of the ACC for BBall only ( if only because the ACC would use that as leverage).

So is ND exploring TV options soon. And old alliances may not be key to the decision process. FOX can bring a lot of $ for football. And , can solve for basketball needs as well.

This is the next moves.

On a side note, Stanford is VERY interesting right now. Independent in Football? Then what? They have first class Olympic sports. Kinda like ND.

Obviously, this all leads to…..

BE heads west. ND, Gonzaga, Stanford, St.Mary’s.

Need on more to get to 16. SLU.

I don't think ND can move until the ACC's deal with ESPN is up in 2036:

"Notre Dame is a member of the Atlantic Coast Conference for most of its sports and has an agreement to play five football games per season against ACC schools. Plus, a clause in Notre Dame's deal with the ACC would require it to join that league if it decides to give up football independence. That deal runs through 2036."

https://abc7chicago.com/sports/notre-dame-ad-jack-swarbrick-says-big-ten-deal-with-nbc-perfect-f/12115375/

Seems like the ACC deal with ESPN is up in 2036, the ACC deal with ND is up in 2036, and then ND also has it's own media deal.

[paulxu]

Some schools have paid millions to leave a conference early. Will the 4 remaining PAC schools be in for a big windfall?

[xu82]

Some schools have paid millions to leave a conference early. Will the 4 remaining PAC schools be in for a big windfall?

This sounds crazy, but I thought I heard on Dan Patrick today that the schools leaving had no buyouts. Could that be true?

[Muskie]

This sounds crazy, but I thought I heard on Dan Patrick today that the schools leaving had no buyouts. Could that be true?

I heard that too. But I wondered if that is because a majority of the teams left?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I heard that too. But I wondered if that is because a majority of the teams left?

Or is it because of the fact they have an expiring media deal with no new one signed?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Or is it because of the fact they have an expiring media deal with no new one signed?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/sport/oregon-washington-big-ten/index.html#:~:text=The%20decision%20to%20leave%20a fter,to%20pay%20any%20exit%20fee.

"The decision by the schools to change conferences coincides with the end of the Pac 12’s media rights deal with ESPN and FOX, and marks the latest shift in the collegiate sports landscape jumpstarted by UCLA and USC announcing last year they would be leaving for the Big Ten at the start of the 2024-25 season.

The decision to leave after the conclusion of the Pac-12’s media rights deal saves the schools from having to pay any exit fee."

[xu82]

In the interest of continuity and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I bet they’d like a do-over on that.

[GoMuskies]

In the interest of continuity and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I bet they’d like a do-over on that.

Who would like a do-over on what?

[X-band '01]

Some schools have paid millions to leave a conference early. Will the 4 remaining PAC schools be in for a big windfall?


This sounds crazy, but I thought I heard on Dan Patrick today that the schools leaving had no buyouts. Could that be true?

With the Pac-12 media deal expiring after 2023-24, that's why there's no exit fee that USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State will have to pay. None.

What I'm not clear on is what happens to the Pac-12 NCAA Tournament units. If the remaining 4 teams get absorbed into, say the Mountain West, I don't think they'd be able to claim them should they "leave" the Pac-12.

[xu82]

Who would like a do-over on what?

I wouldn’t want to be playing musical chairs when almost everyone at the party left to go to other parties. Too many empty chairs is also a problem. The schools left high and dry might have liked some barrier to exit lest they find themselves exactly where they are now. I don’t follow this stuff closely, but it seems like some teams need to find a new plan, and they got nothing for their troubles.

But maybe I’m missing something?

[D-West & PO-Z]

With the Pac-12 media deal expiring after 2023-24, that's why there's no exit fee that USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State will have to pay. None.

What I'm not clear on is what happens to the Pac-12 NCAA Tournament units. If the remaining 4 teams get absorbed into, say the Mountain West, I don't think they'd be able to claim them should they "leave" the Pac-12.

If those 4 are staying together, it makes a lot more sense to for other schools to join them as part of the "PAC" than for them to give up the PAC name and joing some other conference all 4 together.

However, I know that means other schools would then have to pay out exit fees to their current conferences which may not make that option feasible, especially considering the paltry TV revenue share they'd be facing.

SDSU would have to pay 34 million to leave the Mountain West for example.

[MHettel]

I don't think ND can move until the ACC's deal with ESPN is up in 2036:

"Notre Dame is a member of the Atlantic Coast Conference for most of its sports and has an agreement to play five football games per season against ACC schools. Plus, a clause in Notre Dame's deal with the ACC would require it to join that league if it decides to give up football independence. That deal runs through 2036."

https://abc7chicago.com/sports/notre-dame-ad-jack-swarbrick-says-big-ten-deal-with-nbc-perfect-f/12115375/

Seems like the ACC deal with ESPN is up in 2036, the ACC deal with ND is up in 2036, and then ND also has it's own media deal.

Thats the thing. They wouldnt be giving up football independence. They KEEP it. And shed the crap games against the ACC. if they had a schedule where they player 3-4 B10 teams and 3-4 SEC teams every year, they could break the bank in their next media deal. That would be WAAY more valuable than the 5 gamnes against the ACC

[X-band '01]

If those 4 are staying together, it makes a lot more sense to for other schools to join them as part of the "PAC" than for them to give up the PAC name and joing some other conference all 4 together.

However, I know that means other schools would then have to pay out exit fees to their current conferences which may not make that option feasible, especially considering the paltry TV revenue share they'd be facing.

SDSU would have to pay 34 million to leave the Mountain West for example.

To follow up on that point, San Diego State probably had a hunch that things were not hunky-dory in Pac-12 land. Remember that they had to basically hold a press conference to say they were STAYING in the Mountain West. I don't know that they anticipated the conference completely falling apart, either.

[JTG]

[QUOTE=xupuck10;766151]I don't think ND can move until the ACC's deal with ESPN is up in 2036:

Plus, a clause in Notre Dame's deal with the ACC would require it to join that league if it decides to give up football independence. That deal runs through 2036."

This sentence, if true, assures ND of staying independent. No way they join the ACC for football, now, next week, or ever.

I heard a national pundit this afternoon say this movement from Thurs to Sat by the various leagues and schools, was given less thought than a couple would give for paint colors for their living room.

[xudash]

[QUOTE=xupuck10;766151]I don't think ND can move until the ACC's deal with ESPN is up in 2036:

Plus, a clause in Notre Dame's deal with the ACC would require it to join that league if it decides to give up football independence. That deal runs through 2036."

This sentence, if true, assures ND of staying independent. No way they join the ACC for football, now, next week, or ever.

I heard a national pundit this afternoon say this movement from Thurs to Sat by the various leagues and schools, was given less thought than a couple would give for paint colors for their living room.

Did you hear about the Oregon's BoT Chair's call on Oregon to the B1G? He was literally annoyed that he had to take the call while he was hitting out of a green side sand trap on #6 of his club. THAT's how some of these decisions are being made and by these types. Just damn.

[xudash]

From a CBS / Gary Parrish and Norlander podcast:
Thanks for sharing. A few additional interesting tidbits from their discussion:

1. 63% of all cable subscribers are 68 years old or older.

2. It would presently take $100's of millions to get out of the ACC. Florida State is kicking and trying. We all know about the J.P. Morgan approach. Tough sledding though in that direction. Nothing expected to happen with them and their shackles immediately.

3. The Big 12's new media deal allows for additions from the P5 that would keep the existing $31 million and change per school deal in place - UConn obviously isn't in that camp.

4. The Big 12 is focused on looking at 2 more football adds, but they're obviously running into slim pickens and the media partners told them to not abuse the deal - that could mean UConn at a reduced number plus Gonzaga to balance them out if they want to go in that direction.

AND

5. Apparently, August 15th is the DEADLINE DATE FOR ADDING ANY ADDITIONAL MEMBERS TO A CONFERENCE. That's what they said, but I don't know where they're coming from with respect to the source for that statement.

We - The Big East and Xavier - have to hang on for 8 more days.

Finally, back to #1 above, we probably have about 7 to 8 more years of so called linear TV money before things could really start to change on the media payouts side.

Imagine if the Big East is able to hold onto UConn and if Val and company are successful in securing a no less than $8 million per school deal for 6/7 years within the next year.

[X-band '01]

The flip side of that coin is a team like UConn potentially getting a higher share of revenue if the Big 12 and the ACC continue to show interest to the Huskies. Villanova won't have that leverage unless they were to upgrade to FBS football.

[JTG]

The flip side of that coin is a team like UConn potentially getting a higher share of revenue if the Big 12 and the ACC continue to show interest to the Huskies. Villanova won't have that leverage unless they were to upgrade to FBS football.

In a cautionary tale in The Athletic, it is revealed that even after joining the BIG and their money machine, Rutgers Athletic dept is $250 million in debt.

[drudy23]

If UConn leaves, so be it.

We will replace them with Duke or Gonzaga (or both) at some point.

Their football program is terrible. It would be everyone's homecoming for the next 20 years.

[X-band '01]

The Pac-4 (https://pac-4.com/)

Can't wait to see their basketball schedule!

[waggy]

5. Apparently, August 15th is the DEADLINE DATE FOR ADDING ANY ADDITIONAL MEMBERS TO A CONFERENCE. That's what they said, but I don't know where they're coming from with respect to the source for that statement.



I thought that was an ACC thing only. Pretty sure the Big12 said they had until the end of ‘23. Whatever the case I would be very surprised if UConn goes anywhere now.

[bjf123]

If you’ve never watched any of this guy’s SEC football bits, they’re really funny. This is a good take on everything going on with the conference realignment.

https://youtube.com/shorts/TwKZD_b9KGg?feature=share


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MHettel]

Saw on ESPN that B12 Commish Yormack declared an end to the Gonzaga and UConn discussions. Thats good news....

[xudash]

Saw on ESPN that B12 Commish Yormack declared an end to the Gonzaga and UConn discussions. Thats good news....

Very good news.

We now get through the next media rights negotiation with UCONN in the stable.

Gonzaga obviously has built a solid amount of goodwill and brand over the last two decades, but I wouldn't trade places with them for anything. The WCC gets weaker with the loss of BYU. Who knows where scheduling arrangements are headed as the big two conferences get bigger and the Big 12 grows to 16 teams. Gonzaga needs to keep Mark Few happy and then the program has to maintain a high level of performance until something breaks that makes sense for them. That may be creating a Frankenstein out of the MWC, WCC and remnants of the Pac conference. Clearly, from the information that came out today, the talks with the Big East have been put on ice. Who knows.

Back to us: no less than $8 million per team for the Big East would be a win as I see it.

[MHettel]

That may be creating a Frankenstein out of the MWC, WCC and remnants of the Pac conference. it.

I don’t see a solution there. WCC is BBall only. PAC 12 teams need the best football situation possible. Limited BBall value in the MWC.

What combination would work to satisfy Gonzaga and all the other constituents needs?

Stanford used to be good at BBall, but frankly all 4 of those P12 teams are in the bottom half of the (mediocre) league.

Doing nothing is a better move for Gonzaga than trying to piece something that for football and basketball out of that mess.

[Masterofreality]

I just prefer to be where we are.

[xukeith]

How much $ per school is the current broadcasting contract giving each school?

[xudash]

How much $ per school is the current broadcasting contract giving each school?

$4.2mm and change.

[xavierj]

$4.2mm and change.

Which when you dig deeper it’s not bad and hopefully they get a bump with the next deal. People talk about how much football media deals bring in but they also spend a ton more than basketball. So a $4 million basketball deal is probably comparable to a $40
million football media deal. Ohio State spent over $225 million dollars on athletics last year. By comparison, Creighton, who doesn’t have football, spent just over $26 million on all of their athletic programs last year. Xavier basketball I think turns a profit of over $6 million a year, maybe more, where as most football programs outside the top group, lose money. Football is super expensive.

[MHettel]

Which when you dig deeper it’s not bad and hopefully they get a bump with the next deal. People talk about how much football media deals bring in but they also spend a ton more than basketball. So a $4 million basketball deal is probably comparable to a $40
million football media deal. Ohio State spent over $225 million dollars on athletics last year. By comparison, Creighton, who doesn’t have football, spent just over $26 million on all of their athletic programs last year. Xavier basketball I think turns a profit of over $6 million a year, maybe more, where as most football programs outside the top group, lose money. Football is super expensive.

That data is suspect. Been through this before. Accounting gymnastics