Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"Let’s go ahead and make the call, Election Night style, and give Texas A&M to the SEC. On Wednesday, Texas governor Rick Perry, a former Aggie yell leader, told the Dallas Morning News, “As far as I know, conversations are being had.” A&M soon released a statement that was in no way a denial, and Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe told the Austin American-Statesman he was taking the reports “very seriously.”"

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/08/11/texas-am-to-the-sec-will-happen-but-what-about-oklahoma/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog

[paulxu]

On Wednesday, Texas governor Rick Perry, a former Aggie yell leader,

We had one of those in the White House already.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Mass expansion at Big 12’s expense looms with A&M looking SEC’s way

Dan Beebe walked onto a makeshift stage last month, music from “The Natural” blaring and the booming voice of an emcee proclaiming the “man who held it all together” cutting through the cheesy moment at the Big 12 Media Days.

Fast forward to late last night, when Beebe, the embattled Big 12 commissioner, all but admitted Texas A&M was ready to leave for the SEC. In three weeks, the Big 12 has gone from a rebranded conference with renewed confidence, to plugging leaks all over the good ship Beebe.



Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-08-11/mass-expansion-at-big-12s-expense-looms-with-texas-am-looking-secs-way#ixzz1UlHfonno

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Apparently FSU is now in talks with the SEC as well

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Texas AM Rivals site reporting Texas A&M to SEC is "A DONE DEAL"

LET THE DOMINOES FALL(Hopefully)

Texas is already talking to SMU and Houston about joining Big 12(allegedly)

[X-band '01]

That would give the Big ?/Southwest Conference 11 teams; they'd need one more team to get their FB championship game back.

They would add the Dallas and Houston markets; do you then go after Tulane and the New Orleans market?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

That would give the Big ?/Southwest Conference 11 teams; they'd need one more team to get their FB championship game back.

They would add the Dallas and Houston markets; do you then go after Tulane and the New Orleans market?

The question is does Oklahoma follow? Or are they still a package deal with OSU?

What will Missouri do? Will Kansas and Kansas State stay put?

[xudash]

The question is does Oklahoma follow? Or are they still a package deal with OSU?

What will Missouri do? Will Kansas and Kansas State stay put?

If A&M can't tolerate this UT money and power grab, you can be assured that the Sooners cannot and will not tolerate it. They're way too proud and, as we all know, the other marque program, along with Texas and Nebraska, from that part of the country.

To have Texas this far out of balance is the issue. This is like the old Harrison Ford/Robert Shaw movie: Force Ten From Navarone. You're beginning to see the water come through the damn, so it's a matter of time.

On a more pleasant note: Barbara Bach.

[xudash]

Another line of thinking I shared on the A10 board:

It's early in the process, but this move most likely will lead to a direct impact on the A10.

If this is official - and it certainly appears to be credible - then the SEC obviously needs to add one more program. There is a lot of noise coming out of Tallahassee that FSU could get the nod to take the SEC to 14 teams. If that's true, I believe that is the scenario that most likely rips at the existing fabric of the BE football conference, because the ACC is going to have to replace FSU and will want to do so within some semblance of its existing footprint. Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse become obvious candidates for the ACC's hole. In fact, recall that Syracuse was targeted by the ACC, during its earlier raid on the BE.

Now play that one out for a minute. IF you're the ACC, why not take all three, if you can make the math work out right. If the SEC is going to 14, why not go there as well, now, while you have the opportunity to be more selective, especially knowing all three of those schools are in the Atlantic-type footprint.

I always thought the BE would finally split due to expansion. I had not considered a scenario that involved implosion.

The ultimate losers: WVU, UL and UC. The thought of UC ending up back in some kind of C-USA conference makes me laugh. Damn shame.

Another scenario? The balancing team also comes from the BigXII, having the effect of probably caving in that conference, with the BE picking up major remnants and still splitting. With A&M gone and another major conference program also leaving under this scenario, would Texas remain involved? Doubtful, but maybe in order to protect its Olympic Sports. The point here is that I doubt the remaining BigXII would look to schools like Houston, etc. to backfill. They would probably end up becoming weaker than the ACC and BE in football at that point.

Put on your seat belts. This is going to be an interesting ride.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Another line of thinking I shared on the A10 board:

It's early in the process, but this move most likely will lead to a direct impact on the A10.

If this is official - and it certainly appears to be credible - then the SEC obviously needs to add one more program. There is a lot of noise coming out of Tallahassee that FSU could get the nod to take the SEC to 14 teams. If that's true, I believe that is the scenario that most likely rips at the existing fabric of the BE football conference, because the ACC is going to have to replace FSU and will want to do so within some semblance of its existing footprint. Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse become obvious candidates for the ACC's hole. In fact, recall that Syracuse was targeted by the ACC, during its earlier raid on the BE.

Now play that one out for a minute. IF you're the ACC, why not take all three, if you can make the math work out right. If the SEC is going to 14, why not go there as well, now, while you have the opportunity to be more selective, especially knowing all three of those schools are in the Atlantic-type footprint.

I always thought the BE would finally split due to expansion. I had not considered a scenario that involved implosion.

The ultimate losers: WVU, UL and UC. The thought of UC ending up back in some kind of C-USA conference makes me laugh. Damn shame.

Another scenario? The balancing team also comes from the BigXII, having the effect of probably caving in that conference, with the BE picking up major remnants and still splitting. With A&M gone and another major conference program also leaving under this scenario, would Texas remain involved? Doubtful, but maybe in order to protect its Olympic Sports. The point here is that I doubt the remaining BigXII would look to schools like Houston, etc. to backfill. They would probably end up becoming weaker than the ACC and BE in football at that point.

Put on your seat belts. This is going to be an interesting ride.

Well said. I cant wait....

[xudash]

How about one more:

It gets more interesting: there are rumblings from the West Coast that Larry Scott is seizing on this opportunity, urging Oklahoma, OSU, Texas Tech and Texas to reconsider and join the Pac-12 after all. We would witness the first bona fide super conference if he pulls that off. Scott thinks he can make it work financially and may make a run at those Big XII schools to hard sell them on his idea.

Scott actually put the following tweet out tonight: "RT @GeorgeSchroeder: Larry Scott texts on Big 12 upheaval "''m very busy & fully focused on development of the PAC-12. That's all I can say.'"

[DC Muskie]

Interesting take dash. Well done.

What about the ACC saying, screw it...nobody follows of our football anyway and the three schools they took from the BE, go back to the BE?

Meaning, BC, VaTech and Miami head back to the BE and the ACC becomes a basketball conference.

Or is there no way the ACC falls back on this idea of football expansion because of money?

You have to think whatever the schools in the BE that don't have football do, they are going to lose a lot of money.

Also, what happens with Villanova and Temple?

It's going to get really interesting. And more importantly, fun.

[DC Muskie]

Yes, especially since I THINK the worst Xavier can do is come out even. And there's the ever so sumptuous possibility that things could get much, much better for X.

My only concern is the possibility of Temple getting pulled out. Also, with Charlotte getting into the football game what happens with them?

I think you are right, at worst we should come out even. That would sorta suck though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Looks like Pac 12 and SEC have both invited Oklahoma(Allegedly) and Texas Tech in direct talks with Pac 12


RIP Big 12

[xudash]

Interesting take dash. Well done.

What about the ACC saying, screw it...nobody follows of our football anyway and the three schools they took from the BE, go back to the BE?

Meaning, BC, VaTech and Miami head back to the BE and the ACC becomes a basketball conference.

Or is there no way the ACC falls back on this idea of football expansion because of money?

You have to think whatever the schools in the BE that don't have football do, they are going to lose a lot of money.

Also, what happens with Villanova and Temple?

It's going to get really interesting. And more importantly, fun.

Everyone is still attempting to solve for football. I have to imagine that it drives Swofford - The ACC Commish - insane that he essentially has to operate in the shadow of the SEC. Believe me, I witnessed it directly from here and have many friends aligned with both conferences.

Consider when he took the ACC to 12 teams and put its football championship game together. They initially staged it here in Jacksonville. The first year was okay, because one of the teams that made it travelled well and was one of the larger state schools. Now imagine what it was like in the Gator Bowl when BC showed up against Wake! I don't recall attendance making it to 40k for that one. In the meantime, the SEC is up in Atlanta hooting it up in front of a packed house.

This is still about football, which is why I think he could get creative and proactive here and invite those 3 schools. Again, he wanted 'Cuse anyway, during the first go around. Why not pick up Rutgers and Pitt and see if he can last with that 14 team format for a while?

As for your question regarding Nova and Temple. In my opinion, it's way too late for Nova. With this amount of motion going on and with the programs that are in play as a result of it, what in essence is a small, "start-up" in a predominantly pro-sports town doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell.

Temple? Temple might end up with WVU, UC, UL, etc. in some kind of modified C-USA conference that will be screaming at the top of its lungs for AQ treatment. Their problem is that the remaining BCS conferences will place them in a sound proof room for their screaming sessions.

Poor UC. So close, yet so far, like their score in the last Orange Bowl.

[GoMuskies]

RIP Big 12

Nice try. Hello UNLV, Wyoming, Tulane and New Mexico. Obviously.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Nice try. Hello UNLV, Wyoming, Tulane and New Mexico. Obviously.

Partially correct. I think instead of Wyoming they should invite Southwest Texas State Southern of Corpus Christi though. Sorry

[DC Muskie]

West Virginia needs to get into the ACC then.

If FSU leaves and goes to the SEC, then there really has to be the end of BE football right? There simply wouldn't be enough teams.

The BE would have to turn to East Carolina or something.

[xudash]

Nice try. Hello UNLV, Wyoming, Tulane and New Mexico. Obviously.

It's not that easy. It's not about "plug and play." It has to make sense to television. If it doesn't make sense to television, it most likely won't happen.

The best teams remaining in the impaled league will consider their options outside of that league first. As an example, assuming other factors, wouldn't you think that a school like Mizzou would want to see what Pitt thinks before it considers getting in bed with a school like Tulane? If your answer is no, then consider that Kansas has been quietly talking with the BE for a while now as it is.

They may try to salvage something regionally, but, similar to the BE's current problem when it comes to replacements, their pickings will be thin.

[xudash]

West Virginia needs to get into the ACC then.

If FSU leaves and goes to the SEC, then there really has to be the end of BE football right? There simply wouldn't be enough teams.

The BE would have to turn to East Carolina or something.

I don't think WVU could make it into the ACC due to their academic profile, but I could be wrong. I guess you could argue they would simply be replacing Bowden's latter program with his former one.

[GoMuskies]

It's not that easy. It's not about "plug and play." It has to make sense to television. If it doesn't make sense to television, it most likely won't happen.

The best teams remaining in the impaled league will consider their options outside of that league first. As an example, assuming other factors, wouldn't you think that a school like Mizzou would want to see what Pitt thinks before it considers getting in bed with a school like Tulane? If your answer is no, then consider that Kansas has been quietly talking with the BE for a while now as it is.

They may try to salvage something regionally, but, similar to the BE's current problem when it comes to replacements, their pickings will be thin.

This has been covered. Kansas will try to salvage the Big XII. Try to keep up.

[waggy]

Syracuse is a bit of a mystery. Didn't they turn down an ACC invite? They don't seem any hurry to abandon the BE.

[DC Muskie]

Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State are likely to be looking for homes. Maybe even Mizzurah.

Oh yeah, I sort of forgot about them.

Man, Kansas to the BE seems like a real possibility. Are they a package deal with KSU?

[DC Muskie]

Syracuse is a bit of a mystery. Didn't they turn down an ACC invite? They don't seem any hurry to abandon the BE.

I'm not sure, maybe they did. I do remember the Virginia House basically told UVA they had to vote VaTech in or else they would get funding cut.

[waggy]

Does Texas collect exit fees from everyone leaving their conference? :D

[DC Muskie]

Does Texas collect exit fees from everyone leaving their conference? :D

I like the fact Texas may have to go out and sell SMU or Houston on being characters in their television show. And both schools would probably jump at the chance.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Oklahoma City Columnist says Oklahoma wants no part of "SEC Recruiting Culture" and that they'd rather 'Join the Pac 12'

http://newsok.com/texas-am-departure-would-leave-future-of-big-12-a-big-mess/article/3593765?custom_click=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[xu95]

The question is does Oklahoma follow? Or are they still a package deal with OSU?

What will Missouri do? Will Kansas and Kansas State stay put?

Obviously they are staying. THis has been covered.

xu95

[xu95]

Syracuse is a bit of a mystery. Didn't they turn down an ACC invite? They don't seem any hurry to abandon the BE.

They never turned down an invite. They were left at the alter. Originally Syracuse, BC, and Miami were going to the BE. It somehow got convulted and they had to invite V. Tech instead of Syracuse.

xu95

[xu95]

If the Big XII sticks together and tries to replace all three, I'm in absolute heaven if they picked Louisville. I could hit just about every Louisviille road football game every year.

THe Big 12 is going to be Texas and a bunch of community colleges in Texas.

xu95

[xu95]

Oklahoma City Columnist says Oklahoma wants no part of "SEC Recruiting Culture" and that they'd rather 'Join the Pac 12'

http://newsok.com/texas-am-departure-would-leave-future-of-big-12-a-big-mess/article/3593765?custom_click=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Right Oklahoma wants absolutely no part of almost 20 million dollars a year. (sarcasm now turned off)

xu95

[dc_x]

They never turned down an invite. They were left at the alter. Originally Syracuse, BC, and Miami were going to the BE. It somehow got convulted and they had to invite V. Tech instead of Syracuse.

xu95

If I remember correctly, UVA and some Virginia politicians were able to influence the ACC to invite VA Tech over Syracuse at the last minute.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"Texas to the Pac 12 makes sense"
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/31272222

"Florida State and Texas A&M to the SEC?"
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/seminoles/os-florida-state-sec-0812-20110812,0,993196.story

"Texas A&M might ruin it for everyone"
http://normantranscript.com/sports/x1626823679/Texas-A-M-might-ruin-it-for-everyone

Mark_Gottfried Mark Gottfried
Hearing that Texas A&M and FSU may join SEC.That would be interesting. All I know is that the ACC is still envy of all for hoops!

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Larry Scott tells Orangebloods.com he's "fully focused on developing the Pac-12" amidst B12 turmoil involving A&M. ...

The formal vote for Texas A&M to head to the SEC will be August 22. That is D-Day for them

[SM#24]

If I remember correctly, UVA and some Virginia politicians were able to influence the ACC to invite VA Tech over Syracuse at the last minute.

The original plan was Syr, Miami, BC. The ACC needed 7 of 9 votes to approve. UNC and Duke were a solid No. All others were Yes. Then Va politicians sarted realizing what damage this did to the BE and to Va Tech, and forced UVA to vote No unless Va Tech was included. Ultimately, Syr was pushed aside for VT.

It's interesting because when the announcement was first made about Miami/Syr/BC, the other BE schools (including VT) filed suit against Miami and BC claiming promises were made to stay in the BE which prompted other schools (namely UConn) to up their investment in their football programs. Syr was not named in the suit because they never made any promises.

[xudash]

The original plan was Syr, Miami, BC. The ACC needed 7 of 9 votes to approve. UNC and Duke were a solid No. All others were Yes. Then Va politicians sarted realizing what damage this did to the BE and to Va Tech, and forced UVA to vote No unless Va Tech was included. Ultimately, Syr was pushed aside for VT.

It's interesting because when the announcement was first made about Miami/Syr/BC, the other BE schools (including VT) filed suit against Miami and BC claiming promises were made to stay in the BE which prompted other schools (namely UConn) to up their investment in their football programs. Syr was not named in the suit because they never made any promises.

Also, early in the process of the ACC's first raid, when it became clear that two basketball schools were going to be needed for the revised BE, Marquette and Xavier were first ID'd as the most likely schools to receive the invites. Of course, between UC blocking us and Transgreasy trying to pretend that he didn't want to hurt multiple conferences like Swofford had just done with his ACC grab, they went with a down-in-the-dumps DePaul program instead.

[xudash]

This has been covered. Kansas will try to salvage the Big XII. Try to keep up.

Okay. I'll try to keep up. Kansas is leading the charge to salvage the Big XII? Got it.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

You need to go back to page five.

I try to black out the entire middle part of this thread.

Florida State, SEC talking Conference Realignment

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/2011/8/12/2359341/fsu-sec-realignment-texas-a-m-virginia-tech

[xudash]

You need to go back to page five.

I went back to page five. I'm not going back to page five again.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I went back to page five. I'm not going back to page five again.


Yes, brutal stuff.

I'd rather watch a movie starring Nic Cage, Steven Seagall, and Carrottop than read Pages 5-26 again.

It makes the Mark McGwire Steroids thread look compelling.

[XUglow]

So Oklahoma wants no part of the culture??? Rumor today is they are engaged in heavy talks with the SEC at the moment. Texas has everyone in the Big 12 pretty pissed off right now.

Georgia Tech is about to have a fit. They want back in the SEC, and they are getting no love from anyone. Clemson and FSU are definitely the favorites to balance the 2 additions to the West. Florida has always been against another Florida team joining the SEC, but they must have changed their minds.

[GoMuskies]

Holy fu**ing free for all!

[xudash]

So Oklahoma wants no part of the culture??? Rumor today is they are engaged in heavy talks with the SEC at the moment. Texas has everyone in the Big 12 pretty pissed off right now.

Georgia Tech is about to have a fit. They want back in the SEC, and they are getting no love from anyone. Clemson and FSU are definitely the favorites to balance the 2 additions to the West. Florida has always been against another Florida team joining the SEC, but they must have changed their minds.

Great point about G Tech. I had forgotten that they were once in the SEC. Can you imagine how pissed they must be over all this? While they fume in Atlanta, there are others who are laughing their asses off in Athens.

This will not be a boring summer from here on out, especially if A&M goes through with it later this month.

[GoMuskies]

Tulane wants back in the SEC, too. Weird that no one returns their calls.

[danaandvictory]

Sewanee and The Citadel are waiting by their phones.

[SM#24]

Here's my favortite quote:
Last month, as Slive was speaking about expansion, he was asked if the SEC would stop at 14 teams or if it were possible to get to 16 teams? His response: “We could get to 16 teams in 15 minutes.”

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/08/12/texas-am-sec/

[bobbiemcgee]

http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/#top

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MikeTaylor760 Mike Taylor

I stand by yesterday's report by aggieyell.com While all other outlets speculate I assure you. Ags ARE going to SEC.

[xubrew]

Sewanee and The Citadel are waiting by their phones.

Saint Bona can't get the Ivy League to return their calls.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A reliable source says

"I don't know if you are just acting thick or really believe this as your Kansas to the BE makes far less sense than Kansas sticking in the B12 with the other four teams not assumed to be leaving and adding 5-7 teams from the MVC, CUSA and maybe even TCU from the BE. Kansas to the BE is just foolish. Sorry."

Anyways, In planet earth news,

TAMU Texas A&M University
Texas A&M System Board of Regents to hold special meeting on Monday: http://ow.ly/6260P #TAMU

bohls kbohls
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds told me the UT staff "is working on 20 names" for possible replacements for Texas A&M.

kbohls kbohls
Dodds expects Big 12 survival, unsure if Texas would keep playing A&M statesman.com/blogs/content/… via @statesman

A&M official: Beebe tells A&M Big 12 would survive without Aggies, Texas holds key to league's future. Also UH in mix: tiny.cc/ez7gg

[X-band '01]

Tulane wants back in the SEC, too. Weird that no one returns their calls.

Can't imagine LSU would have anything to do with that...

[STL_XUfan]

A reliable source says

bohls kbohls
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds told me the UT staff "is working on 20 names" for possible replacements for Texas A&M.


A&M official: Beebe tells A&M Big 12 would survive without Aggies, Texas holds key to league's future. Also UH in mix: tiny.cc/ez7gg


Notice that Texas is the only one that seems to be trying to keep this league together. Because it only benefits Texas. The rest of the Big 12 seems to be torn between wanting to get the hell away from Texas and being scared out of their minds about not knowing what happens once they get away. Should make for some fun story lines.

[paulxu]

Bring 'em all on.
The ol' ball coach is finally building a team.
If we could just find a QB who could stay out of trouble.

[xudash]

Bring 'em all on.
The ol' ball coach is finally building a team.
If we could just find a QB who could stay out of trouble.

You and your crazy Cocks.

You crazy bastards started the Civil War. With Spurrier at the helm in Columbia, all hell could break lose again.

Garcia must really be a piece of work.

[MarvAlbert]

I think I just saw that Texas A&M will join the SEC and that FSU, Clemson, and Missouri are believed to be eventually following suit. I saw it on the bottom line of espn2 during the Fulham/Aston Villa match, but I can't find it anywhere online and it hasn't come back on tv. I probably read it wrong, since the TA&M regents haven't even met. I'm just passing alone what I believe I saw.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-08-12/sports/os-florida-state-sec-jimbo-fisher-08120110812_1_acc-john-swofford-sec

[XU 87]

Fox Sports is reporting that A&M is going to the SEC. The SEC is in discussions With FSU for the other spot. Houston will likely replace A&M.

We'll see.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Fox Sports is reporting that A&M is going to the SEC. The SEC is in dsussions With FSU for the other spot. Houston will likely replace A&M.

We'll see.

ESPN reporting A&M, Clemson, FSU, and Missouri will likely join SEC

LET THE DOMINOES FALL!!!!

[MarvAlbert]

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Texas-AM-leaving-Big-12-conference-to-join-SEC-081311

[MCXU]

1) Who does the ACC target to replace FSU and Clemson
2) Does ACC decide to go to 14 or 16 now?
3) Does Pac 10 go to 16 now
4) Does Big 10 go to 16 now

Big 12 looks to be through.

Big East Football will likely be decimated by ACC maybe Big 10.

This is nuts.

[X-band '01]

I guess Clemson will never win a basketball game at North Carolina. We talk of the Jimmy Carter streak on this board; Clemson is a whopping 0-55 in Chapel Hill.

This was a snippet from #55 this year. (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/577642-unc-basketball-clemson-tigers-lose-55th-in-a-row-to-tar-heels-in-chapel-hill)

[STL_XUfan]

ESPN reporting A&M, Clemson, FSU, and Missouri will likely join SEC

LET THE DOMINOES FALL!!!!

Mizzou AD's (Mike Alden) quote on this report, "No, no, no". If last go round was any indication this means mizzou is for sure going to the SEC, if only because everything Mike Alden says is clearly wrong.

** His quote from the Columbia Tribune: “No, we haven’t,” Alden said while watching the Tigers’ football scrimmage at Memorial Stadium. “With any of this stuff that’s going on out there, any talk about those types of issues going forward and stuff — no, the answer to your question is no. OK, I want to make sure, no."

“I know it’s hard for me to answer my questions short. I understand my trend is to talk too much, but no.”

[xudash]

The key for Xavier isn't Mizzou anyway. The key for Xavier is to have the ACC lose teams, because that means the ACC will need to replace teams and it will want to do that within its footprint if at all possible.

That means hello again BE - who amongst you shall we take now!

Syracuse, because they were gone the last time around, until the VA legislature got into the act to the benefit of V Tech and the demise of Syracuse.

From there my guess would be Pitt or Rutgers, favoring Pitt between the two, IMHO.

Hell, if the SEC goes to 16 teams, the other BCS conferences - Pac 10, ACC and even the Big Ten - will rip away at the BE and the remains of the Big XII to get to their full 16 program regiments.

[POLLYANNA]

I live in Houston, and thus live via local media A&M and UT news.
By all accounts, A&M are gone. Period.
Personally, I love it. It's high time UT gets its come-uppence. A&M should have done this a year.
Anyway, UT's BS has now chased three (A&M, Colorado, and Nebraska out of the Big 12, and a nine school (with weak sisters Baylor, Texas Tech, KU) just don't cut it. Rumblings here have Houston and SMU coming aboard with BYU to get back to 12 schools. Whoopee, back damn near to the old SWC.
But I digress.
The SEC is now in the drivers seat, and they will, repeat, add another school to bring the membership to 14. Candidates include Florida St, Clemson, Miami, (won't happen, they bring nothing to the table), Oklahoma, West Virginia,Missouri, and Virginia Tech.
Oklahoma is the prize, and that would mean the death knell of the Big 12....and I'd love to see it.
But my dollar is on Virginia Tech. Location, and they bring the DC TV market with them.
If it's Virginia Tech, then the ACC has to go get West Virginia, and the Big East will go after Charlotte. Hell, the ACC may opt to wrap up a couple more teams and go to 14 (Syracuse? Rutgers? with Pitt going to the Big 10.
Soooo, when it all shakes out, none of this will affect Xavier whatsoever, unless, the football playing schools in the Big East
left break away to form a new conference (combining with the C-USA, then who know if Xavier would be an invitee.
I doubt it.

[xudash]

I live in Houston, and thus live via local media A&M and UT news.
By all accounts, A&M are gone. Period.
Personally, I love it. It's high time UT gets its come-uppence. A&M should have done this a year.
Anyway, UT's BS has now chased three (A&M, Colorado, and Nebraska out of the Big 12, and a nine school (with weak sisters Baylor, Texas Tech, KU) just don't cut it. Rumblings here have Houston and SMU coming aboard with BYU to get back to 12 schools. Whoopee, back damn near to the old SWC.
But I digress.
The SEC is now in the drivers seat, and they will, repeat, add another school to bring the membership to 14. Candidates include Florida St, Clemson, Miami, (won't happen, they bring nothing to the table), Oklahoma, West Virginia,Missouri, and Virginia Tech.
Oklahoma is the prize, and that would mean the death knell of the Big 12....and I'd love to see it.
But my dollar is on Virginia Tech. Location, and they bring the DC TV market with them.
If it's Virginia Tech, then the ACC has to go get West Virginia, and the Big East will go after Charlotte. Hell, the ACC may opt to wrap up a couple more teams and go to 14 (Syracuse? Rutgers? with Pitt going to the Big 10.
Soooo, when it all shakes out, none of this will affect Xavier whatsoever, unless, the football playing schools in the Big East
left break away to form a new conference (combining with the C-USA, then who know if Xavier would be an invitee.
I doubt it.

Good stuff. Believing that the ACC "may opt" to go to 14 is a little off, in that I believe the ACC will have no choice but to go to 14. Swofford already is behind the eight ball versus Slive's conference. IF the SEC goes to 14, the ACC must essentially follow suit.

That means that the BE will most likely lose Syracuse, Pitt, UConn and either Rutgers or WVU (WVU if academics aren't weighed into the decision heavily). It will have to replace one and maybe two teams (FSU, then Clemson, based on existing rumors), then add two more teams to get to 14. Why those teams? They're in the ACC footprint, more or less; more so than others that could be considered. That essentially guts the BE football conference.

I would say the odds of the BE being impacted in such a manner as to experience an actual split are at least 40% to 50% at this point. IF the SEC actually offers Mizzou, Clemson and FSU, joining A&M to make the SEC a 16 program conference, the odds go to 80% that Xavier will be presented with an opportunity to join the BE hoops schools.

[Xavier]

I saw some rumors being thrown around that Big 10 is considering talking to Texas and ND about invites--allowing Tex/ND to keep there TV contracts but they would not benifit from the big 10 network.

[stophorseabuse]

I saw some rumors being thrown around that Big 10 is considering talking to Texas and ND about invites--allowing Tex/ND to keep there TV contracts but they would not benifit from the big 10 network.

That just makes sense. I could totally see that happening. I think ND's time as an independent is about to bite the dust. This would make the Big 10 clearly the 2nd best and most interesting conference.

[HuskyMuskie]

So if Notre Dame moves to B10, and I'm assuming they would switch in b-ball as well, that would leave the B-East with 16 basketball teams, correct? And the Big 12 would remain relatively still in tact with Oklahoma and Texas.

The more scenarios I hear, the more I start to think that it is a stretch for Xavier to get to take advantage of a conference realignment. Just too many open scenarios for bigger schools first.

[MD Muskie]

I live in Houston, and thus live via local media A&M and UT news.
By all accounts, A&M are gone. Period.
Personally, I love it. It's high time UT gets its come-uppence. A&M should have done this a year.
Anyway, UT's BS has now chased three (A&M, Colorado, and Nebraska out of the Big 12, and a nine school (with weak sisters Baylor, Texas Tech, KU) just don't cut it. Rumblings here have Houston and SMU coming aboard with BYU to get back to 12 schools. Whoopee, back damn near to the old SWC.
But I digress.
The SEC is now in the drivers seat, and they will, repeat, add another school to bring the membership to 14. Candidates include Florida St, Clemson, Miami, (won't happen, they bring nothing to the table), Oklahoma, West Virginia,Missouri, and Virginia Tech.
Oklahoma is the prize, and that would mean the death knell of the Big 12....and I'd love to see it.
But my dollar is on Virginia Tech. Location, and they bring the DC TV market with them.
If it's Virginia Tech, then the ACC has to go get West Virginia, and the Big East will go after Charlotte. Hell, the ACC may opt to wrap up a couple more teams and go to 14 (Syracuse? Rutgers? with Pitt going to the Big 10.
Soooo, when it all shakes out, none of this will affect Xavier whatsoever, unless, the football playing schools in the Big East
left break away to form a new conference (combining with the C-USA, then who know if Xavier would be an invitee.
I doubt it.

I have a few friends from VA Tech and from what they have told me, they fully expect Tech to stay in the ACC. It took a very long time for them to get in a conference with UVA and the powers that be do not want to break that up. Plus they have been done a lot of conference switching over the past decade or so and they are not really looking to make that switch again. This is just theories I have heard from Tech Alum, but they are heavily involved with football, so I am inclined to believe them.

[xudash]

So if Notre Dame moves to B10, and I'm assuming they would switch in b-ball as well, that would leave the B-East with 16 basketball teams, correct? And the Big 12 would remain relatively still in tact with Oklahoma and Texas.

The more scenarios I hear, the more I start to think that it is a stretch for Xavier to get to take advantage of a conference realignment. Just too many open scenarios for bigger schools first.

If Texas moves to the Big 10, it will no longer be in the Big XII. The Big 10 would have to add another team to balance ND's addition. It will only want Texas, at this point, to pull that off.

[Xavier]

@greggdoyelcbs
Gregg Doyel
I hear Oklahoma, OK State and 2 other B12 schools approached Big Ten as package and were told no. Academic reasons.

[STL_XUfan]

@greggdoyelcbs
Gregg Doyel
I hear Oklahoma, OK State and 2 other B12 schools approached Big Ten as package and were told no. Academic reasons.

B1G is only going to add schools that are in the AAU (ironically Nebraska lost their membership shortly after joining the Big 10). That makes Big 10 expansion a little more tricky, because of the limited number of schools that are in the right geographic area and have membership in the AAU.

Plausible members:
Iowa St.
Rutgers
Texas A&M (off the board come monday)
Tulane (see page 5 of the other conference expansion thread, on second thought, don't)
Kansas
Maryland
Missouri
Pitt.
Texas
UVA
Vanderbilt
Duke
GT
UNC
Florida


I am not saying any of these schools are likely to leave, or wanting to leave, but this is the list the Big 10 would have to choose from.

**Strangely enough ND is not on this list, but I think an exception would be made for ND.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"SEC unlikely to add members in current states"

http://outkickthecoverage.com/sec-expansion-league-unlikely-to-add-members-in-current-states.php

1. Last June on the first day of the SEC's spring meetings I asked Mike Slive about the SEC's currently existing television contracts with ESPN and CBS.

In particular I asked him whether television payments would increase in the event the SEC added teams. Here was Slive's lawyerly answer: "Let me try to answer that in a way that's consistent with our contractual obligations," Slive said. "There are confidentiality clauses in almost all of these contracts. Having said that, it's not unusual in a contract to have a clause that talks about the composition of the league, what it is at the start and then what might happen if the league were to get smaller or grow larger."

Then he laughed. "You can figure that out," Slive said, "That's a Casey Stengel kind of answer."


I've since been told that there is a rough framework that would increase payments based on television markets added. That is, the two sides already contemplated expansion might occur in the current contract.

2. A&M approached the SEC, not vice versa.

This is an important distinction because it suggests that A&M already has the votes on its Board of Regents to make the move to the SEC. This then is not a matter of the SEC extending an offer to A&M so much as it as decision on whether or not to accept the Aggies' request to join the conference.

It also suggests that A&M was so frustrated with the current situation in the Big 12 that they reached out to the SEC. This makes me think that when A&M reporters have said that the Aggie move to the SEC is a "done deal," it means that from A&M's perspective it already is done.

But the SEC still has to act.

3. The SEC presidents must vote to accept A&M.

So far this has not happened. That’s why reports that this is a “done deal” are completely inaccurate.


What kind of vote is required to add a member? Nine of the 12 of the SEC presidents must vote in favor of expansion, but, and here’s the kicker – those who I talked to said that the SEC would expect the presidents to act unanimously. This would square with Commissioner Mike Slive's typical management style. When the SEC undertakes an expansive step, it wants to assure that everyone is on board, not just the majority.

I've been told that a single dissenting vote might be acceptable, but that if any two presidents opposed the inclusion of a new school, it would be unlikely that school would join the conference.


4. The SEC is unlikely to add any schools in states where they already have teams.

The reason is simple, the SEC believes it is already doing well enough in those markets. This means all the Florida State, Miami, Clemson and Georgia Tech talk is just that, talk. Similarly for all you Memphis and Louisville fans holding out fond hopes of joining the conference, you have no shot either.

For a school like Florida State -- which has been trying, off and on, to join the SEC since the 1950's -- this exclusion is a big deal. Incidentally, you need to read that link to all the stories about FSU joining the SEC. It shows what a hot-button expansion has been for fifty years.


5. Oklahoma isn’t worth it to the SEC if Oklahoma State has to come as well.

Now, is this playing negotiating hardball or will the SEC truly not take Oklahoma if Oklahoma State is a part of the price?

I'm inclined to believe what I've been told, that Oklahoma State is too steep of a price given the fact that the state of Oklahoma only has 3.8 million people. Effectively the SEC would be doubling down on the second smallest state in the league's footprint. There's a belief that doesn't serve the long-range interests of the league.


6. This may well be the time when four 16 team conferences emerge.

The SEC is happy in its current position, but expects that four 16 team mega-conferences will ultimately emerge. Last year took us to the brink. This year could get us there. Or it could not. There are so many moving parts its hard to know what the SEC's position will be.

Could the SEC add A&M and then spring forward and add three more teams to get to 16?

Yes.

Could the SEC merely add A&M and stick at 13?

Yes.

Could the SEC add A&M and one more team and sit at 14 for a while?

Yes.

Could nothing at all happen?

Yes.

So you see the difficulty here. From a reporting perspective all of this changes so rapidly it's hard to know what to expect. You can be completely right one moment and completely wrong the next and then back to right again. So here's the big takeaway that I've been drumming into y'all's head for several years now -- eventually the SEC will have 16 members.

It's a question of when, not if.

7. A&M then what?

That’s unclear at this point because SEC officials are still not completely certain what schools are viable options. Most talks have not advanced to the point of serious contemplation. As I told you, A&M approached the SEC. The SEC hadn't been actively pursuing new members because it was comfortable at 12.

So anyone who tells you they know what the SEC is going to do after A&M is full of it.

Put it this way, Mike Slive is the most brilliant man in college athletics and I'm not even sure he knows for certain what his next move would be.

8. Would the SEC make a run at Texas Tech?

I'm told that's a point open for debate. Some SEC sources like the idea of doubling down in the state of Texas, while others were content with snagging A&M and not as excited by what Tech brought to the table.

Based on what I'm hearing, I would put Tech as the second most likely school from the Big 12 to end up in the SEC. (With the always added caveat that Tech's inclusion would be reliant upon A&M leaping first).

9. If the schools that are already in SEC states are out of the running, what does that suggest? That Virginia Tech is probably number two in line for expansion.

I was told by multiple people that there's a strong Virginia Tech push coming.

Yesterday I laid out my list of potential expansion candidates and tried to rank them based on likelihood of joining the league. You can read that piece here. If I had to rerank those schools today based on the conversations I had yesterday, Texas A&M would be first and Virginia Tech would be second.

Who would be third?

10. The state of North Carolina.

Conventional wisdom has been that the North Carolina quad of Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina, and N.C. State are all connected. Primarily because this is the only state in the South – Kentucky is not actually the South – where basketball interests predominate over football interests.

If those four schools are truly all committed to one another then there's no way the SEC could crack the state.

I’ve heard scattered talk that N.C. State might be willing to make the move, but does N.C. State really move the needle?


Moreover, is there anyway that the SEC could entice a school like Duke to listen to them? Don't laugh, I'm told that some of the SEC schools like the idea of going after Duke because it would give the SEC the two best schools in the South and inoculate the conference -- to a certain degree -- from the criticism that all the SEC cares about is athletics.

Vanderbilt and Duke would be a powerful duo to rebut that charge.

Plus, and this is key, Duke wouldn't make the football side of the ledger as difficult, which I'm told is an issue of concern for some coaches.

Now, would Duke come to the SEC?

I don't have any idea.

Would N.C. State?

Again, no idea.

But there's a strong thread of argument that if the SEC could get into the growing North Carolina market and Virginia in the east, that would be the most desirable play.

11. Which brings us back to Missouri.

The team I'd now put in the number five position is Missouri. Right now Missouri is the biggest beneficiary of Oklahoma being tied to Oklahoma State. What I've been told, as I stated above, is that the SEC isn't willing to take two Oklahoma schools and that SEC officials believe the political capital needed to separate the two schools isn't there.

So Missouri jumps up above the two Oklahoma schools. Now, how does Missouri square up against Texas Tech? Great question. Right now I'd put Texas Tech a nose above Missouri.

Again, this could fluctuate every day, but if I had to rerank the SEC expansion candidates based on my conversations yesterday, I'd rank them thusly:

1. Texas A&M

2. Virginia Tech

3. State of North Carolina team

4. Texas Tech

5. Missouri

But by the time I click publish could it all change?

Of course.

Which is why this is all so damn entertaining.

I'm in Las Vegas right now on a seventh-year anniversary trip with my wife. What did I do the first thing this morning when I woke up after four hours of sleep? Made calls, sent emails, and got to work on SEC expansion. We planned this trip because we thought it would be a dead period before football started in earnest.

My wife just shook her head. "Mike Slive," she said, "owes me a dinner."

The Commissioner will probably think that's funny, but right now the most powerful man in college athletics is working like a duck to make things happen for the SEC.

A duck, you might be wondering?

Here's what Slive told me last year when we talked about expansion in great detail: "Is it an analogy to say that we were a little like a duck? On the surface we were very quiet, careful, deliberate, and underneath we were working."

No doubt at all that there is serious work going on beneath the surface. And like the rest of y'all, I can't wait to see what happens.

OKTC will be with you every step of the way. But right now, we're heading to the Caesar's Palace pool."

[Cat's Bird Seat]

Texas as an independent is laughable. Why? There is only one program that has a "national audience" and FTR, that "national audience" is declining year after year with funerals for the "subway alumni" take place. The Vegas people will tell you Texas games, other than vs Oklahoma and A&M draw much play outside of Texas and Oklahoma.

Notre Dame, as long as they have that NBC contract is not moving to any conference. But, that contract may be ending, or for a lot less money. FTR, ND games on NBC last fall averaged a 2.1 rating ... way below averages for college football on other networks.

I saw this morning where Clemson, FSU and Mizzou said they are "not interested" in joining the SEC. I still think VaTech is a logical choice, and a big step up for the "Gobblers" and a real jump from being a member of the A-10.

Morning rag here columnist says UT's AD (Deloss Dodds, the guy who started all this ruin of the Big 12 over $$$$ is pushing Air Force, or Brigham Young as the replacement for A&M which is a guarantee for political screaming from the Texas Ledge to take Houston first ...

Just adding one school is not the answer for the Big 12 (actually the other Big 10 -- currently 9). Not having 12 teams and a championship $$$$$ game makes them second rate. But if BYU and AFA say no, UT's (note I say UT, not the other members because they are all beholden to UT's pocketbook) can take UH, but then their options are very slim.

I will be a most interested observer.

[Juice]

Texas as an independent is laughable. Why? There is only one program that has a "national audience" and FTR, that "national audience" is declining year after year with funerals for the "subway alumni" take place. The Vegas people will tell you Texas games, other than vs Oklahoma and A&M draw much play outside of Texas and Oklahoma.

Notre Dame, as long as they have that NBC contract is not moving to any conference. But, that contract may be ending, or for a lot less money. FTR, ND games on NBC last fall averaged a 2.1 rating ... way below averages for college football on other networks.

I saw this morning where Clemson, FSU and Mizzou said they are "not interested" in joining the SEC. I still think VaTech is a logical choice, and a big step up for the "Gobblers" and a real jump from being a member of the A-10.

Morning rag here columnist says UT's AD (Deloss Dodds, the guy who started all this ruin of the Big 12 over $$$$ is pushing Air Force, or Brigham Young as the replacement for A&M which is a guarantee for political screaming from the Texas Ledge to take Houston first ...

Just adding one school is not the answer for the Big 12 (actually the other Big 10 -- currently 9). Not having 12 teams and a championship $$$$$ game makes them second rate. But if BYU and AFA say no, UT's (note I say UT, not the other members because they are all beholden to UT's pocketbook) can take UH, but then their options are very slim.

I will be a most interested observer.

Would BYU remain in the WCC for all other sports but football? If not, would they be able to get out of the new conference so quickly?

[XULucho27]

So another stay of execution for the Big XII with the SEC not extending an invite to A&M. You have to figure this will move forward either next season or the following; It's only a matter of time now.

[xudash]

Great article. Thanks JTT37.

So FSU gets to continue being Florida's little sister (it actually used to be an all-girls school).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So another stay of execution for the Big XII with the SEC not extending an invite to A&M. You have to figure this will move forward either next season or the following; It's only a matter of time now.

From what I'm reading, the SEC had to vote this way for legal reasons. They did not want to get sued by the Big12. So they are covering their butts by saying they won't extend the invite

I would imagine Texas A&M will make the first move by leaving, suffer the fines/legal recourse from the Big 12, and then the SEC will invite them soon

With the Texas legislature now getting involved, this could create some headaches for all involved


Also, I don't know if we should be linking ESPN as the most trustworthy source(Myself included) considering they are corporate partners with the LHN and Texas.

[XULucho27]

From what I'm reading, the SEC had to vote this way for legal reasons. They did not want to get sued by the Big12. So they are covering their butts by saying they won't extend the invite

I would imagine Texas A&M will make the first move by leaving, suffer the fines/legal recourse from the Big 12, and then the SEC will invite them soon

With the Texas legislature now getting involved, this could create some headaches for all involved


Also, I don't know if we should be linking ESPN as the most trustworthy source(Myself included) considering they are corporate partners with the LHN and Texas.

Good point regarding ESPN and the LHN. I also surmised it was a move on the SEC's part to cover themselves legally, but at least for now it does put a halt on the impending conference shift. I'm with you though, it will likely happen sooner than later. The writing is on the wall for the Big XII.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Sources locked in at #A&M tell Orangebloods.com #Aggies will be announced as members of #SEC w/in 21 days. bit.ly/qp58JU #big12

"How ESPN is complicating am to SEC Deal"

http://outkickthecoverage.com/how-espn-is-complicating-am-to-sec-deal.php#.TkhjYKvevxU.twitter

[DC Muskie]

Good stuff Jimmy. Thanks for the insight on all of this. Appreciate it. Reps.

[MADXSTER]

My understanding is that to be in the ACC, the school must reside in a state located on the Atlantic Coast. Thus, West Virginia would not be an option(unless they change this steadfast rule).

[Cat's Bird Seat]

I'm referring to the proverbial "Fat Lady," and today's announcement that the SEC Presidents voted not to expand.
They will, and they will invite A&M ..... just as soon as they can agree on a 14th member ... and as soon as the lawyers clear any legal stumbling blocks.
A&M has burned too many bridges to stay in the Big 12, and the SEC wants the Houston/Dallas TV market.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

I'm referring to the proverbial "Fat Lady," and today's announcement that the SEC Presidents voted not to expand.
They will, and they will invite A&M ..... just as soon as they can agree on a 14th member ... and as soon as the lawyers clear any legal stumbling blocks.
A&M has burned too many bridges to stay in the Big 12, and the SEC wants the Houston/Dallas TV market.

Agreed. Simply a matter of weeks. This process didn't get started w/o intimate knowledge that it would be approved (eventually).

[ReturnOfTheMack]

I saw some rumors being thrown around that Big 10 is considering talking to Texas and ND about invites--allowing Tex/ND to keep there TV contracts but they would not benifit from the big 10 network.

Not even a remote possibility. Notre Dame has no incentive to join the Big 10. Same for Texas. In ND's case they reap all the rewards of being independent (they keep every cent from NBC) and really have no risk (regards to football). There is a built in clause to the BCS bowl selection that if they are in the top 10 in the BCS w/ at least 10 wins they are an automatic qualifier to the BCS. They don't have to win a conference and they have no problem scheduling games b/c they are such a draw nationally. Why join the Big 10? Their basketball and other programs are surviving just fine in the Big East and they're able to maintain independence in football. It's a win/win for ND. As for Texas, if the Big 12 implodes they'll go independent before they join the Big 10.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Is there a way we can combine the 4 threads?

EDIT: Thanks Mods.

[_LH]

A reliable source says

"I don't know if you are just acting thick or really believe this as your Kansas to the BE makes far less sense than Kansas sticking in the B12 with the other four teams not assumed to be leaving and adding 5-7 teams from the MVC, CUSA and maybe even TCU from the BE. Kansas to the BE is just foolish. Sorry."

Anyways, In planet earth news,

TAMU Texas A&M University
Texas A&M System Board of Regents to hold special meeting on Monday: http://ow.ly/6260P #TAMU

bohls kbohls
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds told me the UT staff "is working on 20 names" for possible replacements for Texas A&M.

kbohls kbohls
Dodds expects Big 12 survival, unsure if Texas would keep playing A&M statesman.com/blogs/content/… via @statesman

A&M official: Beebe tells A&M Big 12 would survive without Aggies, Texas holds key to league's future. Also UH in mix: tiny.cc/ez7gg

So James, when is KU going to the BE? :rolleyes:

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So James, when is KU going to the BE? :rolleyes:

Patience young one. A&M will leave. That's for certain. When they do, Oklahoma and Missouri have some tough decisions to make. If one of those teams leave, the Big 12 is dead. Kansas will not be offered by the Pac 12, SEC, or Big 10. That leaves the ACC and Big East. Considering they've already been in talks with the Big East, I think its not unlikely at all to see them there.

But Oklahoma and/or Missouri have to leave first. All indications are Missouri wants out, and Oklahoma/OSU were already denied entrance into the Big 10 due to academic reasons. Its safe to say they both want out

[xudash]

Patience young one. A&M will leave. That's for certain. When they do, Oklahoma and Missouri have some tough decisions to make. If one of those teams leave, the Big 12 is dead. Kansas will not be offered by the Pac 12, SEC, or Big 10. That leaves the ACC and Big East. Considering they've already been in talks with the Big East, I think its not unlikely at all to see them there.

But Oklahoma and/or Missouri have to leave first. All indications are Missouri wants out, and Oklahoma/OSU were already denied entrance into the Big 10 due to academic reasons. Its safe to say they both want out

If the Longhorn Network stays in place, and it will stay in place, the Big XII will fold. It simply isn't sustainable with the key teams, other than Texas, of course, that remain in it now.

[Cincypunk.org]

38 freaking pages!

Anyone care to sum these 38 pages up in 1-2 paragraphs for me?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If the Longhorn Network stays in place, and it will stay in place, the Big XII will fold. It simply isn't sustainable with the key teams, other than Texas, of course, that remain in it now.

Have you seen all the 'coverage' by ESPN? Absolutely hilarious.

Most personalities are ripping A&M and calling them all sorts of names. Today, ESPN said that "if A&M leaves the Big 12 it could cost the state of Texas millions of dollars and thousands of jobs"

They are acting as if they have some skin in the game....Its almost as if they own a rival network or something

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

38 freaking pages!

Anyone care to sum these 38 pages up in 1-2 paragraphs for me?

I would start at page 26.

Basically:

-A&M wants out. The Longhorn Network Texas and ESPN is not fair at all to the other teams and A&M thought they were given a raw deal
-A&M had talks with the SEC about joining for next year.
-The SEC presidents met and decided not to extend an offer. Many believe the reason they did this was 1) To cover their rear ends in case the Big 12 sued or attempted legal action and 2) They didn't want to be seen as 'conference busters'. However, the SEC left the door open.
-Now the ball is in A&M's court to either A) stay in the Big 12 and get metaphorically pooped on by Texas or B) Join the SEC. A&M has to initiate the move first.
-Texas A&M Board of Regents has authorized A&M president to do what it takes to leave Big 12 so the First hurdle officially jumped.
-Texas A&M sources also indicated that the SEC wants to jump to 16 teams
-Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and 2 unnamed Big 12 teams were denied invitations to the Big 10 for academic reasons
-Missouri wants desperately out(like last year) but aren't admitting it publicly
-FSU, Clemson, and Missouri have been linked to the SEC but that source was from ESPN so its untrustworthy since they have a stake in all this
-Kansas and Kansas State were in talks with the Big East last year and many, except for _LH, think they could be heading there if/when A&M/Oklahoma/Missouri leave
-Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are largely thought to be a package deal
-The pac 12 allegedly is wooing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tech, and a 4th to try and reach 16 teams also
-The SEC wants Oklahoma but not Oklahoma State(allegedly)
-_LH thinks that quotations directly from the Pac 12 commissioner in context is not reliable
-Be careful venturing through pages 5-25 on this thread. If you do happen to glance through it, have some pepto bismol on hand. Its tough to stomach

[Titanxman04]

I would start at page 26.

Basically:

-A&M wants out. The Longhorn Network Texas and ESPN is not fair at all to the other teams and A&M thought they were given a raw deal
-A&M had talks with the SEC about joining for next year.
-The SEC presidents met and decided not to extend an offer. Many believe the reason they did this was 1) To cover their rear ends in case the Big 12 sued or attempted legal action and 2) They didn't want to be seen as 'conference busters'. However, the SEC left the door open.
-Now the ball is in A&M's court to either A) stay in the Big 12 and get metaphorically pooped on by Texas or B) Join the SEC. A&M has to initiate the move first.
-Texas A&M Board of Regents has authorized A&M president to do what it takes to leave Big 12 so the First hurdle officially jumped.
-Texas A&M sources also indicated that the SEC wants to jump to 16 teams
-Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and 2 unnamed Big 12 teams were denied invitations to the Big 10 for academic reasons
-Missouri wants desperately out(like last year) but aren't admitting it publicly
-FSU, Clemson, and Missouri have been linked to the SEC but that source was from ESPN so its untrustworthy since they have a stake in all this
-Kansas and Kansas State were in talks with the Big East last year and many, except for _LH, think they could be heading there if/when A&M/Oklahoma/Missouri leave
-Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are largely thought to be a package deal
-The pac 12 allegedly is wooing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tech, and a 4th to try and reach 16 teams also
-The SEC wants Oklahoma but not Oklahoma State(allegedly)
-_LH thinks that quotations directly from the Pac 12 commissioner in context is not reliable
-Be careful venturing through pages 5-25 on this thread. If you do happen to glance through it, have some pepto bismol on hand. Its tough to stomach

This.

This is why I read your posts. Informative. Funny. And possibly one day, you'll buy me a beer. :D

It's only a matter of time before there are four or five major "SUPER CONFERENCES".

The PAC-12, BIG-10, SEC, ACC, and the Big East.

[xudash]

38 freaking pages!

Anyone care to sum these 38 pages up in 1-2 paragraphs for me?

How about a few quick sentences:

Univ of Texas got greedy with ESPN as it's enabler - open wallet.

That pissed others in the Big XII off, along with the onerous rev share arrangement the league put together that also favors Texas.

What was thought to be unsustainable is proving to be so, with A&M throwing up its hands first; it has begun a process that will allow it to exit the Big XII.

It wants to go to the SEC, but the SEC can't proactively invite it, because such an invite would most likely cause the Big XII to enter into litigation with the SEC. SO, A&M will break free and the SEC will invite it then, or it will say "stay tuned" while we research who will make the most logical addition as team 14 to balance you out. 14, it is believed, will not come from the SEC's existing footprint (states).

Bottom line: conference realignment is happening again, and it will eventually lead to 4 sixteen team leagues most likely.

Xavier will most likely not be in the A10 within 3 to 5 years, unless the A10 cleans up its mess at the bottom and gets better at negotiating TV deals.

[X-band '01]

38 freaking pages!

Anyone care to sum these 38 pages up in 1-2 paragraphs for me?


I would start at page 26.



Go to User CP, click "Edit Thread Options" and click on the drop-down menu that lets you view up to 40 posts per page. That will reduce the number of pages considerably.

[_LH]

I would start at page 26.

Basically:

-A&M wants out. The Longhorn Network Texas and ESPN is not fair at all to the other teams and A&M thought they were given a raw deal
-A&M had talks with the SEC about joining for next year.
-The SEC presidents met and decided not to extend an offer. Many believe the reason they did this was 1) To cover their rear ends in case the Big 12 sued or attempted legal action and 2) They didn't want to be seen as 'conference busters'. However, the SEC left the door open.
-Now the ball is in A&M's court to either A) stay in the Big 12 and get metaphorically pooped on by Texas or B) Join the SEC. A&M has to initiate the move first.
-Texas A&M Board of Regents has authorized A&M president to do what it takes to leave Big 12 so the First hurdle officially jumped.
-Texas A&M sources also indicated that the SEC wants to jump to 16 teams
-Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and 2 unnamed Big 12 teams were denied invitations to the Big 10 for academic reasons
-Missouri wants desperately out(like last year) but aren't admitting it publicly
-FSU, Clemson, and Missouri have been linked to the SEC but that source was from ESPN so its untrustworthy since they have a stake in all this
-Kansas and Kansas State were in talks with the Big East last year and many, except for _LH, think they could be heading there if/when A&M/Oklahoma/Missouri leave
-Oklahoma and Oklahoma State are largely thought to be a package deal
-The pac 12 allegedly is wooing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tech, and a 4th to try and reach 16 teams also
-The SEC wants Oklahoma but not Oklahoma State(allegedly)
-_LH thinks that quotations directly from the Pac 12 commissioner in context is not reliable
-Be careful venturing through pages 5-25 on this thread. If you do happen to glance through it, have some pepto bismol on hand. Its tough to stomach

With the exception of Jimmy's poor and incorrect attempts to summarize my thoughts, this seems pretty correct.

What if the SEC never invites A&M?

[xu95]

With the exception of Jimmy's poor and incorrect attempts to summarize my thoughts, this seems pretty correct.

What if the SEC never invites A&M?

Than probably nothing changes. This was always contingent on A&M going to the SEC.

xu95

[SM#24]

Go to User CP, click "Edit Thread Options" and click on the drop-down menu that lets you view up to 40 posts per page. That will reduce the number of pages considerably.

great tip, reduces it to 10 pages, and now only 8 pages consist of "I know you are, but what am I"

[Muskie]

Looks like the A&M Board gave the Chancellor/AD permission to seek a new home. I'm getting the feeling this will really happen.

[SM#24]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/34065/a-home-in-the-sec-would-fit-billy-kennedy

more from Andy Katz, which includes the B12 language with regards to membership and withdrawal

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-aggies/20110815-source-big-12-sec-commissioners-had-heated-phone-call-over-expansion-last-week.ece

"Source: Big 12, SEC commissioners had heated phone call over expansion last week"

[_LH]

Than probably nothing changes. This was always contingent on A&M going to the SEC.

xu95

The BE wouldn't be interested in KU and KSU even if A&M doesn't leave?

[_LH]

Should the B12 offer membership to Louisville and TCU?

[xu95]

The BE wouldn't be interested in KU and KSU even if A&M doesn't leave?

If A&M doesn't leave and start the dominos rolling there is no reason for the Kansas teams to leave the B12. However, if A&M and maybe another team leave for the SEC and four teams go to the Pac 16 there is very to little chance that the two Kansas schools stay in a Big 12 that involves teams like SMU and Houston.

xu95

[xu95]

Should the B12 offer membership to Louisville and TCU?

They should before they offer it to SMU and Houston.

xu95

[_LH]

If A&M doesn't leave and start the dominos rolling there is no reason for the Kansas teams to leave the B12. However, if A&M and maybe another team leave for the SEC and four teams go to the Pac 16 there is very to little chance that the two Kansas schools stay in a Big 12 that involves teams like SMU and Houston.

xu95

I thought none of the B12 schools wanted to be oppressed by Texas the LHN? Wouldn't KU and KSU want to leave regardless?

[xu95]

I thought none of the B12 schools wanted to be oppressed by Texas the LHN? Wouldn't KU and KSU want to leave regardless?

None of them want to be oppressed by the LHN, but it is going to take something bigger than Kansas and Kansas State to get the ball rolling.

xu95

[_LH]

They should before they offer it to SMU and Houston.

xu95

I agree. If the Big XII fears extinction by the SEC and PAC 10, they should be proactive and look to kill off the BE before the BE takes the B12 leftovers like James thinks will happen.

[_LH]

None of them want to be oppressed by the LHN, but it is going to take something bigger than Kansas and Kansas State to get the ball rolling.

xu95

Why? Is their lot in life better in the current Big 12 than it would be in the BE? If KU is really oppressed why not leave now?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I agree. If the Big XII fears extinction by the SEC and PAC 10, they should be proactive and look to kill off the BE before the BE takes the B12 leftovers like James thinks will happen.

Not all the leftovers, just Kansas and Kansas State.

Why do I think that?

Probably all the reports from July of 2010 to the present that say Kansas and Kansas State have been talking with the Big East as an option if the Big 12 dissolves

[_LH]

Not all the leftovers, just Kansas and Kansas State.

Why do I think that?

Probably all the reports from July of 2010 to the present that say Kansas and Kansas State have been talking with the Big East as an option if the Big 12 dissolves

So why don't they (KU and KSU) leave NOW for the BE?

The more I think about it, the B12 should proactively attempt to kill the BE. If A&M leaves, offer membership in the B12 to TCU, WVU, Louisville. If Mizzu leaves go after BYU.

[SM#24]

So why don't they (KU and KSU) leave NOW for the BE?

Because the BE is not a better option NOW, but IF multiple quality programs begin to leave the B12, then the BE could be their BEST available option.

I'm pretty certain the current B12 situation brings in more $$ to KU/KSU than if they left now to join the BE. Once that changes, everything is wide open.

[dc_x]

this thread is heading back down the tubes......

[_LH]

Because the BE is not a better option NOW, but IF multiple quality programs begin to leave the B12, then the BE could be their BEST available option.

I'm pretty certain the current B12 situation brings in more $$ to KU/KSU than if they left now to join the BE. Once that changes, everything is wide open.

If true. Wouldn't KU, KSU, Iowa St. and Baylor look to add teams from the BE instead of joining the BE?

[SM#24]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-aggies/20110815-source-big-12-sec-commissioners-had-heated-phone-call-over-expansion-last-week.ece

"Source: Big 12, SEC commissioners had heated phone call over expansion last week"

From writer's twitter:
"Texas A&M's 100-year decision, a tough one: Not winning conferences titles in Big 12 vs. not winning in SEC."

[SM#24]

If true. Wouldn't KU, KSU, Iowa St. and Baylor look to add teams from the BE instead of joining the BE?

Yes, I think so. I would think schools like Louisville and S Fla would be at least be interested in exploring that option. I'm sure the initial reaction of KU/KSU/Iowa St/Baylor will be to rebuild the conference in some manner, but if if they cannot find enough quality replacments and there are more $$ sitting out there to join an existing BCS conference, then the B12 probably dies. My guess is that a lot of that work is going on now (at least as far as sending out feelers).

[_LH]

Yes, I think so. I would think schools like Louisville and S Fla would be at least be interested in exploring that option. I'm sure the initial reaction of KU/KSU/Iowa St/Baylor will be to rebuild the conference in some manner, but if if they cannot find enough quality replacments and there are more $$ sitting out there to join an existing BCS conference, then the B12 probably dies. My guess is that a lot of that work is going on now (at least as far as sending out feelers).

This is what I have been saying the entire time. KU and KSU to the BE would be a last ditch effort at best after they did everything including raiding the BE to keep the B12 alive.

If the ACC, PAC, SEC and B10 all go to 16 teams I don't see anyway that both the BE and B12 survive.

To me, there is as much chance of the BE losing 2 of these three (Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse) as there is in the B12 losing Mizzu, OK St. and OU.

The PAC would at most take 16 teams. If the B10 and ACC go to 16 teams they take the best from the current BE. Neither the ACC or B10 would be interested in Louisville, TCU, Cincinnati or WVU.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Matt_HayesSN Matt Hayes
Texas A&M new system chancellor says, "Yes, I'm for going to the SEC. I think it's a win-win situation." http://www.statesman.com/sports/aggies/a-m-leader-says-aggies-are-looking-at-1748552.html

"They will leave," the Big 12 administrator told the American-Statesman on Monday night. "We'll try to add one or three teams." The administrator added that the Big 12 will try to persuade Notre Dame and Brigham Young to consider joining the league if A&M departs ."

[SM#24]

Matt_HayesSN Matt Hayes
Texas A&M new system chancellor says, "Yes, I'm for going to the SEC. I think it's a win-win situation." http://www.statesman.com/sports/aggies/a-m-leader-says-aggies-are-looking-at-1748552.html

"They will leave," the Big 12 administrator told the American-Statesman on Monday night. "We'll try to add one or three teams." The administrator added that the Big 12 will try to persuade Notre Dame and Brigham Young to consider joining the league if A&M departs ."

This is about the 4th different person I've heard mention ND as a possible replacement. While I'm sure the B12 would ask ND to join their conference, I can't believe that it is even the remotest of possibilities they would join regardless of what the $$ might say.

[_LH]

I hope they go after BYU, Louisville and WVU.

[Titanxman04]

It's a sad thing to see a conference chasing after Notre Dame out of desperation. Such a sad state that Big XII is about to be in.

[XUglow]

This is about the 4th different person I've heard mention ND as a possible replacement. While I'm sure the B12 would ask ND to join their conference, I can't believe that it is even the remotest of possibilities they would join regardless of what the $$ might say.

ND to the SEC is more likely, and I put the chance of that happening at 0%.

[Cincypunk.org]

Thank you XuDash and JimmyTwoTimes77.

Reps given.

[_LH]

It's a sad thing to see a conference chasing after Notre Dame out of desperation. Such a sad state that Big XII is about to be in.

That's why they should target WVU, BYU and Louisville.

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

Any chance all this shaking up will allow us to schedule a series with Ohio State, Louisville and/or Kentucky.

[xu95]

This is what I have been saying the entire time. KU and KSU to the BE would be a last ditch effort at best after they did everything including raiding the BE to keep the B12 alive.

If the ACC, PAC, SEC and B10 all go to 16 teams I don't see anyway that both the BE and B12 survive.

To me, there is as much chance of the BE losing 2 of these three (Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse) as there is in the B12 losing Mizzu, OK St. and OU.

The PAC would at most take 16 teams. If the B10 and ACC go to 16 teams they take the best from the current BE. Neither the ACC or B10 would be interested in Louisville, TCU, Cincinnati or WVU.

Here is the problem. If the SEC takes A&M and one other team and the Pac 12 takes four more teams, that is 6 (really 8 because they really need to get back to 12) teams that they need to replace. Not only that the Big 12 would lose their automatic qualifier status because they drop below six teams that have been in the league for five years. The conference will have no choice but to disband if that happens.

What the Big 12 did wrong was they didn't try to take someone like Louisville and TCU when they lost their first two members. Now they are screwed.

I know you are trying to grasp at straws to prove you were right, but there is no scenario that works out for the Big 12 if six teams leave.

xu95

[xu95]

That's why they should target WVU, BYU and Louisville.

They should have already done that. The Big 12 could have saved themselves by going back to 12 teams after Colorado and Nebraska left. I really thought their would be five 16 team conferences and the BE would be the loser, but the Big 12 closed their eyes and pretended everything was ok with the world and now they will be the ones to lose out.

The Pac 12/16 will take four more Big 12 teams, the SEC will take two, and the BE will take two. That will leave Texas and Baylor to figure out what they should do.

xu95

[Titanxman04]

They should have already done that. The Big 12 could have saved themselves by going back to 12 teams after Colorado and Nebraska left. I really thought their would be five 16 team conferences and the BE would be the loser, but the Big 12 closed their eyes and pretended everything was ok with the world and now they will be the ones to lose out.

The Pac 12/16 will take four more Big 12 teams, the SEC will take two, and the BE will take two. That will leave Texas and Baylor to figure out what they should do.

xu95

Baylor drops to the MWC. Not a terrible conference in football and basketball would be kings there. Certainly it wouldn't be ideal for them, but then again, they don't bring too terribly much to the table to lure another major conference to them. Texas moves to an independent for the time being.

[GoMuskies]

I don't see Baylor being kings in MWC basketball. Baylor has mostly sucked for a long time, and once they go on probation will likely suck again for a long time. With Utah and BYU gone, UNLV is likely to rule the roost there for the time being (with or without Baylor).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Here we go. Reports are saying the Big East Commissioner is meeting with the ACC and Big 12...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6868423/big-east-commissioner-john-marinatto-reaches-big-12-dan-beebe-acc-john-swofford

[_LH]

Here is the problem. If the SEC takes A&M and one other team and the Pac 12 takes four more teams, that is 6 (really 8 because they really need to get back to 12) teams that they need to replace. Not only that the Big 12 would lose their automatic qualifier status because they drop below six teams that have been in the league for five years. The conference will have no choice but to disband if that happens.

What the Big 12 did wrong was they didn't try to take someone like Louisville and TCU when they lost their first two members. Now they are screwed.

I know you are trying to grasp at straws to prove you were right, but there is no scenario that works out for the Big 12 if six teams leave.

xu95

I am right and there is still time for the Big 12 to go after WVU, Louisville and BYU.

[xu95]

I am right and there is still time for the Big 12 to go after WVU, Louisville and BYU.

You are correct, it is not too late, but it would have been a lot smarter for them to do it when they weren't in a position of weakness.

Without just coming up with some retort like "I'm right, your wrong", please explain to me why Oklahoma, OK State, Texas Tech, and either Missouri or Iowa St would not want to join the Pac 12 and if those schools and A&M leave, how the Big 12 would still be a viable conference for anyone not named Texas.

I want a legitimate response. Not your typical bullshit.

xu95

[_LH]

You are correct, it is not too late, but it would have been a lot smarter for them to do it when they weren't in a position of weakness.

Without just coming up with some retort like "I'm right, your wrong", please explain to me why Oklahoma, OK State, Texas Tech, and either Missouri or Iowa St would not want to join the Pac 12 and if those schools and A&M leave, how the Big 12 would still be a viable conference for anyone not named Texas.

I want a legitimate response. Not your typical bullshit.

xu95

I never, ever respond with bullshit.

I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville.

Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013

A&M leaves and starts playing in the SEC along with Missouri in 2013-2014.

The SEC is now at 14 teams.

The Big 12 is now 11 teams.

The Big 12 invites TCU to get back to 12 teams for the 2013-2014 season.

The Big 10 wants to go to 14 now and takes Pitt and Rutgers.

The ACC wants to go to 14 now and takes Syracuse and CONN

The PAC 12 wants to go to 14 teams and takes OU and OSU in a package deal.

The big 4 are all now at 14 teams each.

The Big 12 drops to 9 teams with the loss of OU and OSU.

The BE is down to UC and South Florida

The SEC, B10, PAC 14 wants nothing to do with UC or S. FLA., leaving the ACC as the only conference beside the B12 that would want/need to add either UC or S. FLA.

The SEC has said they only want new additions by programs that reside in states not already represented by the SEC. The SEC doesn't need to expand for any reason once they get to 14 and the only programs that they would probably target are schools from North Carolina and I don't see any of them leaving. I don't think UNC, Wake, NC St. or Duke's football being all that appealing to the SEC.

I could see the Big 12 adding UC in fear they may lose Texas Tech and/or Iowa St. but they could also target some Mountain West teams instead.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I never, ever respond with bullshit. [QUOTE]

Incorrect

[QUOTE] I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville. [QUOTE]

Any evidence to back this up? BYU and UL I have heard in the conversation but nothing substantial. WVU I haven't heard mentioned from anyone joining the B12

[QUOTE] Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013 [QUOTE]

Who's to say Oklahoma wants to stay? They've already tried to get in the Big 10 with Oklahoma State and 2 unmentioned teams. Missouri wanted out last year and definitely wants out this year. Granted, they may not have a choice but I think first opportunity Missouri and Oklahoma get to leave, they'll go

[QUOTE] A&M leaves and starts playing in the SEC along with Missouri in 2013-2014. [QUOTE]

Most accurate thing you've said so far in regards to A&M. Missouri could be true as well we'll see

[QUOTE] The SEC is now at 14 teams.

The Big 12 is now 11 teams.

The Big 12 invites TCU to get back to 12 teams for the 2013-2014 season.

The Big 10 wants to go to 14 now and takes Pitt and Rutgers.

The ACC wants to go to 14 now and takes Syracuse and CONN

The PAC 12 wants to go to 14 teams and takes OU and OSU in a package deal.

The big 4 are all now at 14 teams each.

The Big 12 drops to 9 teams with the loss of OU and OSU.

The BE is down to UC and South Florida

The SEC, B10, PAC 14 wants nothing to do with UC or S. FLA., leaving the ACC as the only conference beside the B12 that would want/need to add either UC or S. FLA.

The SEC has said they only want new additions by programs that reside in states not already represented by the SEC. The SEC doesn't need to expand for any reason once they get to 14 and the only programs that they would probably target are schools from North Carolina and I don't see any of them leaving. I don't think UNC, Wake, NC St. or Duke's football being all that appealing to the SEC.

I could see the Big 12 adding UC in fear they may lose Texas Tech and/or Iowa St. but they could also target some Mountain West teams instead.

Interesting you mention this. I made the comment today to someone that UC could go to the ACC based solely on how much money their football team doesn't make. Their football stadium barely seats anyone compared to the others in the major conferences. UC tends to think of themselves as more of a Bball school anyways so I think the ACC would be more of a fit.

There are still so many variables. Lets go A&M! Hurry up already

[_LH]

[QUOTE=_LH;282893]I never, ever respond with bullshit. [QUOTE]

Incorrect

[QUOTE] I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville. [QUOTE]

Any evidence to back this up? BYU and UL I have heard in the conversation but nothing substantial. WVU I haven't heard mentioned from anyone joining the B12

[QUOTE] Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013 [QUOTE]

Who's to say Oklahoma wants to stay? They've already tried to get in the Big 10 with Oklahoma State and 2 unmentioned teams. Missouri wanted out last year and definitely wants out this year. Granted, they may not have a choice but I think first opportunity Missouri and Oklahoma get to leave, they'll go

[QUOTE] A&M leaves and starts playing in the SEC along with Missouri in 2013-2014. [QUOTE]

Most accurate thing you've said so far



Interesting you mention this. I made the comment today to someone that UC could go to the ACC based solely on how much money their football team doesn't make. Their football stadium barely seats anyone compared to the others in the major conferences. UC tends to think of themselves as more of a Bball school anyways so I think the ACC would be more of a fit.

There are still so many variables. Lets go A&M! Hurry up already

Jimmy,

Your questions/comments to my remarks are hard to follow due to the website but I'll try to respond.

I am actually correct.

I am advocating the invitations. You may or may not hear it, doesn't matter. Its pure speculation from almost every source.

OU probably does not want to stay but I think they only go with OSU and the SEC does not want two teams from the same state. A&M moves first. The SEC tries for someone from the state of NC but settles for Missouri. They'd love to just have OU.

While current B12 schools look to leave and await invitations to do so, the B12 is proactive and invites BYU, WVU and Louisville.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I never, ever respond with bullshit.

I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville.

Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013

A&M leaves and starts playing in the SEC along with Missouri in 2013-2014.

The SEC is now at 14 teams.

The Big 12 is now 11 teams.

The Big 12 invites TCU to get back to 12 teams for the 2013-2014 season.

The Big 10 wants to go to 14 now and takes Pitt and Rutgers.

The ACC wants to go to 14 now and takes Syracuse and CONN

The PAC 12 wants to go to 14 teams and takes OU and OSU in a package deal.

The big 4 are all now at 14 teams each.

The Big 12 drops to 9 teams with the loss of OU and OSU.

The BE is down to UC and South Florida

The SEC, B10, PAC 14 wants nothing to do with UC or S. FLA., leaving the ACC as the only conference beside the B12 that would want/need to add either UC or S. FLA.

The SEC has said they only want new additions by programs that reside in states not already represented by the SEC. The SEC doesn't need to expand for any reason once they get to 14 and the only programs that they would probably target are schools from North Carolina and I don't see any of them leaving. I don't think UNC, Wake, NC St. or Duke's football being all that appealing to the SEC.

I could see the Big 12 adding UC in fear they may lose Texas Tech and/or Iowa St. but they could also target some Mountain West teams instead.


[QUOTE=JimmyTwoTimes37;282907][QUOTE=_LH;282893]I never, ever respond with bullshit. [QUOTE]

Incorrect

[QUOTE] I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville. [QUOTE]

Any evidence to back this up? BYU and UL I have heard in the conversation but nothing substantial. WVU I haven't heard mentioned from anyone joining the B12

[QUOTE] Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013 [QUOTE]

Who's to say Oklahoma wants to stay? They've already tried to get in the Big 10 with Oklahoma State and 2 unmentioned teams. Missouri wanted out last year and definitely wants out this year. Granted, they may not have a choice but I think first opportunity Missouri and Oklahoma get to leave, they'll go

[QUOTE] A&M leaves and starts playing in the SEC along with Missouri in 2013-2014.

Jimmy,

Your questions/comments to my remarks are hard to follow due to the website but I'll try to respond.

I am actually correct.

I am advocating the invitations. You may or may not hear it, doesn't matter. Its pure speculation from almost every source.

OU probably does not want to stay but I think they only go with OSU and the SEC does not want two teams from the same state. A&M moves first. The SEC tries for someone from the state of NC but settles for Missouri. They'd love to just have OU.

While current B12 schools look to leave and await invitations to do so, the B12 is proactive and invites BYU, WVU and Louisville.

Its interesting. No one can really be wrong in this conversation at this point and time.

The Big East/ACC future is the one to watch as X fans...That's why its encouraging to see them all meet today

[_LH]

[QUOTE=_LH;282910][QUOTE=JimmyTwoTimes37;282907][QUOTE=_LH;282893]I never, ever respond with bullshit. [QUOTE]

Incorrect

[QUOTE] I'm glad you agree it is not too late.

The Big 12 tomorrow offers membership to WVU, BYU and Louisville. [QUOTE]

Any evidence to back this up? BYU and UL I have heard in the conversation but nothing substantial. WVU I haven't heard mentioned from anyone joining the B12

[QUOTE] Now they are:

Baylor
Iowa St.
Kansas
KSU
Missouri
OU
OSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
WVU
BYU
Louisville

for 2012-2013 [QUOTE]

Who's to say Oklahoma wants to stay? They've already tried to get in the Big 10 with Oklahoma State and 2 unmentioned teams. Missouri wanted out last year and definitely wants out this year. Granted, they may not have a choice but I think first opportunity Missouri and Oklahoma get to leave, they'll go



Its interesting. No one can really be wrong in this conversation at this point and time.

The Big East/ACC future is the one to watch as X fans...That's why its encouraging to see them all meet today

I'm really hoping that the B12 realizes that it is either them or the BE that is going to die and to take the first shot at killing the BE by inviting Louisville and WVU.

[XUglow]

The SEC will not do anything to push Bama and Auburn to the SEC East, so the expansion will be balanced with teams from the east and west if they expand beyond A&M. Inside of the SEC, there is the concept of the Big 6: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU. The other teams may pop up for a few years, but it is these schools that make the conference what it is, and these six will most likely always be divided equally between east and west. The SEC could easily go out and find 4 schools from TX, OK, and MO, but it would create a shift in the middle teams that most SEC schools would resist. UF, UGA, and USC are strongly against FSU and Clemson, so this balancing act is going to be difficult.

[XUFan09]

Does anyone know why some schools like having their in-state rivals in the same conference and even work to get it (i.e. UVA and VTech), but others are strongly opposed to it (i.e. UF concerning FSU)?

[GoMuskies]

No idea, but UVA didn't want VaTech. The Virginia legislature forced that deal.

[XUFan09]

No idea, but UVA didn't want VaTech. The Virginia legislature forced that deal.

Ah, okay. I thought I heard that VaTech wanted UVA, but I guess the feelings weren't mutual.

[xudash]

Ah, okay. I thought I heard that VaTech wanted UVA, but I guess the feelings weren't mutual.

V-Tech and VA politicians tied to it wanted Tech to move up: out of the BE and up to the ACC. People tied to UVA were not ecstatic about that, to say the least, but, once that ball got rolling, the UVA crowd had to be careful about doing anything perceived as being harmful to Tech's interests.

[Titanxman04]

BYU isn't going anywhere. They just declared independent for football, trying to follow ND it seems. their basketball program joined the WCC, which normally isn't a terribly great conference, but St. Mary's and Zaga boost it a bit, and with the Mormons joining, that would actually be a 2-3 bid league every year.

To join the Big XII, I think the schools invited would want to wait to see who else is going to join. Last thing a program wants to do is to bolt over to one conference, only to have that cease to exist a year or two later. Unless the Big XII can negotiate package deals with a few schools to bring them in together, no one is going to join that sinking ship.

[GoMuskies]

Mormons and Baptists in the same conference would be interesting with Baylor and BYU as conference mates.

Come to think of it, BYU and Pepperdine in the WCC is an interesting partnership.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/16/kansas-state-joins-the-network-party-with-k-statehd-tv/related/

"In a related story, a source very close to the situation has informed us late last night that preliminary talks have begun between Kansas and the Big East because of the Jayhawks’ unimaginable frustration over the network."

[GoMuskies]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/16/kansas-state-joins-the-network-party-with-k-statehd-tv/related/

"In a related story, a source very close to the situation has informed us late last night that preliminary talks have begun between Kansas and the Big East because of the Jayhawks’ unimaginable frustration over the network."

Wrong.

[GoMuskies]

I see now that the writer was being sarcastic with that sentence. Pretty funny actually.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wrong.


I see now that the writer was being sarcastic with that sentence. Pretty funny actually.

Hahahaha. Ya, I think _LH will find it amusing as well. There was really no news at all yesterday on this stuff

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Major wildcard lurking re: SEC expansion: Delany / Big 10 pre-emptive strike on Mizzou or other SEC-targeted schools.

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Oklahoma is linchpin for SEC/Big 12. Period. If they go to SEC, OKSU, A&M go too and perhaps VT. Big 12 up in smoke overnight.

[XUglow]

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Major wildcard lurking re: SEC expansion: Delany / Big 10 pre-emptive strike on Mizzou or other SEC-targeted schools.

SPORTSbyBROOKS SPORTSbyBROOKS
Oklahoma is linchpin for SEC/Big 12. Period. If they go to SEC, OKSU, A&M go too and perhaps VT. Big 12 up in smoke overnight.

SbB has a terrible rep in SEC circles. Moron is the term that usually comes up when he is discussed.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

SbB has a terrible rep in SEC circles. Moron is the term that usually comes up when he is discussed.

I'm trying to remember the issue but he was right on one major thing when everyone else said he was completely wrong. I can't remember it though.

Anyways, I don't know about his track record that much aside from that.

Rumor of the day going around on the SEC chatboards:

A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Virginia Tech to the SEC for 2012

[XUglow]

I'm trying to remember the issue but he was right on one major thing when everyone else said he was completely wrong. I can't remember it though.

Anyways, I don't know about his track record that much aside from that.

Rumor of the day going around on the SEC chatboards:

A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Virginia Tech to the SEC for 2012

Don't know the guy. Don't read his stuff. I just know how people react when his column is mentioned.

I think A&M is a given. Beyond that, no one is saying anything.

[xudash]

At this point:

1. It has to be reasonably concluded that A&M is leaving the B12.

2. It has to be concluded that the SEC will move to pick them up when appropriate.

3. A 14th program will be required to balance out the SEC.

4. It could be very possible that, knowing that the B1G or PAC 10 most likely will move north of 12 members each, the SEC may go ahead with building out to 16 programs.

The idea of having 4 super conferences for football is closer than many think.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

SEC Expansion Odds and Ends:

http://www.mrsec.com/2011/08/mondays-sec-expansion-odds-and-ends/

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Not that reliable but interesting

KYEAGSLB Kevin Yeagley
Sources told CBSSports.com that the Big East presidents had agreed to invite Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Iowa State as full members.

[waggy]

KYEAGSLB Kevin Yeagley
Sources told CBSSports.com that the Big East presidents had agreed to invite Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Iowa State as full members.

Or have?

[principal]

Nothing really new here, but worth a quick read: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6902114/texas-expects-announce-plans-leave-big-12-according-report

[STL_XUfan]

Rumors now surfacing that the Big Xii is interested in Pitt. We have now hit a new level of absurdity. Personally, I think the Big East, ACC, and Big 12 are about to get very aggressive in trying to move to 16 teams. The writing is on the wall for at least 1 of these 3 conferences, so they all want to be buyers rather then being sold off team by team. Perfect example is simultaneous rumors that the Big East wants to talk to the Big Xii North teams and the Big Xii is wanting poach teams from the Big East.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/08/28/4-1-zoo-pitt-big-12-rumors-surface/

[GuyFawkes38]

A Pitt move to the Big12 would be absurd. They are a natural fit for the Pac10.

[GoMuskies]

This should make Jimmy happy if it comes to pass.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1257714

[xudash]

This should make Jimmy happy if it comes to pass.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1257714

A trade?

Arkansas would leave the SEC to go to that mess?

Sure it would.

[GoMuskies]

UK fan favorite Pete Thamel is now chiming in: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/sports/ncaafootball/texas-am-closer-to-withdrawing-from-big-12.html?_r=1&ref=sports

[paulxu]

If that guy thinks 7 and 6 is "mathematical clunky", he should look at MLB.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

A&M pres called The Big 12 notifying them of the split yesterday. Letter was sent today. Here we go. Its finally official


http://www.tamu.edu/athletics/conferenceChange.html

There is going to be some movement. Will the SEC add just two or go to 16?

Another key is Oklahoma. If they leave, the Big 12 is finished. If they stay, the Big 12 could possibly survive - which ultimately hinders X moving up to a better conference

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=202&articleid=20110830_202_B1_Whatif864434&r=4078

I personally can't imagine another top tier school that would want to join the Big 12 and agree to terms with Texas and the LHN/ESPN. Yes I could imagine a Houston or someone like that moving in, but I doubt that will be the Big12 first choice.

All eyes are on Oklahoma now.

[xudash]

My guess is that it all goes into motion sooner than later for the simple reason that each of the Power 3 - B1G, SEC and Pac10 - will want to grab the best of the most logical schools available, as opposed to sitting back and picking up scraps or lessor schools.

Call it cherry picking mode.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

My guess is that it all goes into motion sooner than later for the simple reason that each of the Power 3 - B1G, SEC and Pac10 - will want to grab the best of the most logical schools available, as opposed to sitting back and picking up scraps or lessor schools.

Call it cherry picking mode.

I like it. You know the Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott will not sit idly by. He's probably all over and been all over Oklahoma the last couple months.

The SEC commissioner Slive knows this. I'm sure he has a plan should the Pac 12 add Oklahoma and OSU.

We know the BE commissioner is actively looking to expand.

The wild cards are the Big 10 and ACC. They've been out of the spotlight.

[_LH]

For selfish reasons I want the BE to fall a part as soon as possible. Hopefully the B12 can convince Louisville and WVU to join them and then the B10 and ACC can take Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse and UCONN, killing BE football.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

For selfish reasons I want the BE to fall a part as soon as possible. Hopefully the B12 can convince Louisville and WVU to join them and then the B10 and ACC can take Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse and UCONN, killing BE football.

I agree with you. I think there is a good chance the BE could either fall apart or split if the dominoes fall in the right places

[xudash]

I like it. You know the Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott will not sit idly by. He's probably all over and been all over Oklahoma the last couple months.

The SEC commissioner Slive knows this. I'm sure he has a plan should the Pac 12 add Oklahoma and OSU.

We know the BE commissioner is actively looking to expand.

The wild cards are the Big 10 and ACC. They've been out of the spotlight.

I believe you've nutted what will amp it up - the PAC12 commish. You have to imagine that Delaney (B1G) and Slive (SEC) have their war plans mapped out already.

I have a gut feeling that the BE and Big12 have a stick of butter's chance in a microwave in all this. If we're truly headed towards 4x16, then they would be most likely to go away.

The ACC would survive, but it would lose ground to the Power3. The ACC just doesn't have the television money to compete at this point, and it has its Atlantic charter and probably a preference for a certain academic profile.

Think of that math for a moment. It means that a few teams get kicked to the curb. Poor UC, you were so close to sustaining a mostly irrelevant position at the big boy table.

[_LH]

I believe you've nutted what will amp it up - the PAC12 commish. You have to imagine that Delaney (B1G) and Slive (SEC) have their war plans mapped out already.

I have a gut feeling that the BE and Big12 have a stick of butter's chance in a microwave in all this. If we're truly headed towards 4x16, then they would be most likely to go away.

The ACC would survive, but it would lose ground to the Power3. The ACC just doesn't have the television money to compete at this point, and it has its Atlantic charter and probably a preference for a certain academic profile.

Think of that math for a moment. It means that a few teams get kicked to the curb. Poor UC, you were so close to sustaining a mostly irrelevant position at the big boy table.

I think we will have 4 conferences at 14 teams for a number of years and may never see 4 conferences with 16. Who are the 16 in the B10 and ACC.

I think either the BE or B12 will survive but not both.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I think we will have 4 conferences at 14 teams for a number of years and may never see 4 conferences with 16. Who are the 16 in the B10 and ACC.

I think either the BE or B12 will survive but not both.

I'm more inclined to believe the BE will survive over the B12, but then again if Oklahoma stays, the Big 12 can push on.

The message board community on the Oklahoma boards tend to think they will end up in the Pac 12. Dash is right. Things should start happening pretty quickly.

Also, VT to the SEC with A&M is still the strongest rumor right now

[muskienick]

I'm more inclined to believe the BE will survive over the B12, but then again if Oklahoma stays, the Big 12 can push on.

The message board community on the Oklahoma boards tend to think they will end up in the Pac 12. Dash is right. Things should start happening pretty quickly.

Also, VT to the SEC with A&M is still the strongest rumor right now

The ACC simply cannot allow that to happen if they are to remain relevant. One might conclude that the VA Legislature would step in to prevent that from happening unless VT brought VA along with them. (How ironic would that be?) The ACC simply has to become more proactive by attracting Syracuse and Rutgers and/or UConn into the fold ASAP. Excellent academics, reasonably good athletics, and grographically correct.

If OK bolts for the PAC, I could easily see Louisville, UC, and BYU winding up in the Big 12.

Pitt would then be in a position to beg the Big 10 for membership (but may have to fight off Missouri for that spot).

The Big East would then be deceased, or worse --- relegated to non-BCS status. Huggins and WVU might be rejoining C-USA (or luck out and land a spot in the Big 12 along with the Cats and Cards).

Lordy, is this fun or what!!!

[GoMuskies]

Why would anyone want Rutgers?!?

[_LH]

Why would anyone want Rutgers?!?

Why would anyone want UC?

[muskienick]

Why would anyone want Rutgers?!?

They got invited to the Big East to help them to attain BCS status. If the ACC finds itself losing ground to the SEC, Big 10 and PAC 10, it may have little choice but to invite the likes of Rutgers into the fold, especially if either Syracuse or UConn are unavailable. What other current BCS program would you suggest for membership in the ACC that has both good academics and a presence in a State that borders the Atlantic Ocean?

[_LH]

I'm more inclined to believe the BE will survive over the B12, but then again if Oklahoma stays, the Big 12 can push on.

The message board community on the Oklahoma boards tend to think they will end up in the Pac 12. Dash is right. Things should start happening pretty quickly.

Also, VT to the SEC with A&M is still the strongest rumor right now

I am more inclined to think the B12 will survive since the BE is vunerable to both the B10 and ACC with less options east of the Mississippi to invite than anyone would care about.

[MCXU]

I'm really interested to see how this all plays out.

I like or position in the A-14 right now, only place to go it up. If the dominoes get this far I think we hold a strong hand.

Poor Kansas, do they get the shaft when this is all through?

I agree that the PAC 12 immediatly goes after OK and OKST.

The West seems to be limited in their choice of schools so they need to act now if they want to ensure the best teams are still available.

[muskienick]

Why would anyone want UC?

1) The Big 12 is desperate
2) UC recently won a BCS Conference Championship
3) The Bearcats have a good basketball tradition, the post-Huggins Era notwithstanding.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I am more inclined to think the B12 will survive since the BE is vunerable to both the B10 and ACC with less options east of the Mississippi to invite than anyone would care about.

Definitely could go that way. If they are indeed creeping to 4 superconferences, I think geography will play less of a role. At this point, there are so many options that could happen
I'm just going to sit back and enjoy

[_LH]

1) The Big 12 is desperate
2) UC recently won a BCS Conference Championship
3) The Bearcats have a good basketball tradition, the post-Huggins Era notwithstanding.

1.) Not that desperate. UC and its 35K stadium that typically hosts around 20K for home games is nothing special. The B12 can do much better. Take TCU.

2.)They recently went 4-6 and traditionally suck.

3.) Basketball is a huge after thought.

[bobbiemcgee]

ATM on the loose:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/128811918.html

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Its also worth mentioning that UC is without a current AD during, what could become, a crucial time period in college sports. Talk about horrible timing

I remember people on here saying Bobinski was on the phone with the Big East ready to pull the trigger back when the Conference USA teams went to the BE. I'm sure X is prepared should a situation arise as well

[bobbiemcgee]

With ATM today notiflying the B12 that they are leaving, look for the avalanche to begin.

[_LH]

I can see the PAC 12 wanting to invite OU and OSU to get to 14 but who would they desire for 15 and 16? Would they even need to invite 15 and 16?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I can see the PAC 12 wanting to invite OU and OSU to get to 14 but who would they desire for 15 and 16? Would they even need to invite 15 and 16?

I think the mentality would be something along the lines of

"If we're going to 4 superconferences, which everyone thinks will happen, why not choose from the best colleges now as opposed to scrambling and reacting to what the other conferences are doing."

Pac 12 commish Larry Scott has indicated he wants to expand to 16 sooner rather than later.

[GoMuskies]

They got invited to the Big East to help them to attain BCS status.

I don't think Rutgers helped the Big East get BCS status back in the early '90s when they became a part of the Big East. The BCS didn't exist then, for one, and Rutgers was the second most miserable football program in major college football at the time (their brief conference mate Temple being the only worse program).

I'm not sure there's anyone else out there that is going to keep the ACC afloat, but Rutgers isn't going to be much help on its own.

[_LH]

I think the mentality would be something along the lines of

"If we're going to 4 superconferences, which everyone thinks will happen, why not choose from the best colleges now as opposed to scrambling and reacting to what the other conferences are doing."

Pac 12 commish Larry Scott has indicated he wants to expand to 16 sooner rather than later.

Thanks but that really does not answer my question. Why do they have to have 16 teams? Can't they be "super" at 14?

[_LH]

I don't think Rutgers helped the Big East get BCS status back in the early '90s when they became a part of the Big East. The BCS didn't exist then, for one, and Rutgers was the second most miserable football program in major college football at the time (their brief conference mate Temple being the only worse program).

I'm not sure there's anyone else out there that is going to keep the ACC afloat, but Rutgers isn't going to be much help on its own.

I can only see at most 2 ACC schools leaving the ACC. They could add Syracuse and UCONN and be just fine.

[bobbiemcgee]

Thanks but that really does not answer my question. Why do they have to have 16 teams? Can't they be "super" at 14?

TV money. It's all about the TV money. B12 gets 1 BILLION DOLLARS for 13 yrs. but not going to happen with a 9 team league. 16 teams = maybe 1.25 or 1.5 BILLION
Greed is still good.

[_LH]

TV money. It's all about the TV money. B12 gets 1 BILLION DOLLARS for 13 yrs. but not going to happen with a 9 team league. 16 teams = maybe 1.25 or 1.5 BILLION
Greed is still good.

That still does not answer my question. I understand the money but they don't need team 15 and 16 to get these deals.

[bobbiemcgee]

Why wouldn't they want more teams? If they collectively can make X (maybe double) amount more per team than the teams are getting now, why not? If MLB shrank to 12 teams, do you think they would get the same TV deal?

[_LH]

Why wouldn't they want more teams? If they collectively can make X (maybe double) amount more per team than the teams are getting now, why not? If MLB shrank to 12 teams, do you think they would get the same TV deal?

They won't get the mega deal at 14 teams? Why not? Adding two more at the end is just two more mouths at the table. Again, I see no reason to add teams 15 and 16. Who would they be?

[waggy]

If the P12 was able to get Oklahoma I could see them leaving room to add Texas later down the road. SEC and B10 could do the same.

[_LH]

If the P12 was able to get Oklahoma I could see them leaving room to add Texas later down the road. SEC and B10 could do the same.

Wouldn't OSU go with OU?

Would the PAC 14 want Texas and their network? I thought that was the reason teams were leaving the B12?

Even if they add OSU, OU and Texas, who is team 16?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Wouldn't OSU go with OU?

Would the PAC 14 want Texas and their network? I thought that was the reason teams were leaving the B12?

Even if they add OSU, OU and Texas, who is team 16?

Nobody knows. There are about 100,372,375,327,178,573,236,357,372,293,286,653 different scenarios out there.

[_LH]

Nobody knows. There are about 100,372,375,327,178,573,236,357,372,293,286,653 different scenarios out there.

Not really.

Give me 5 viable options for teams 15 and 16 assuming OU and OSU go to the PAC.

I really don't see why they would feel the need to add two more teams at that point.

[waggy]

My point is if Texas is #15, it doesn't matter who #16 is. But Texas joining the P12 wouldn't happen for a while, so yes, I could see the P12 staying at 14 indefinitely.

[_LH]

My point is if Texas is #15, it doesn't matter who #16 is. But Texas joining the P12 wouldn't happen for a while, so yes, I could see the P12 staying at 14 indefinitely.

I understand and agree but wouldn't Texas's network be a big hurdle for the PAC?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Not really.

Give me 5 viable options for teams 15 and 16 assuming OU and OSU go to the PAC.

I really don't see why they would feel the need to add two more teams at that point.

Because Larry Scott has indicated he will do whatever it takes to make the Pac 12 the premier conference in America.

They may not get to 16 relatively soon. Or they may add 16 before everyone else does. That's my whole point.

[waggy]

I understand and agree but wouldn't Texas's network be a big hurdle for the PAC?

IF it's successful. Which I think is a big question mark.

[_LH]

Because Larry Scott has indicated he will do whatever it takes to make the Pac 12 the premier conference in America.

And they can't be at 14 teams?

Who would 15 and 16 be?

[GoMuskies]

Because Larry Scott has indicated he will do whatever it takes to make the Pac 12 the premier conference in America.


There's basically no way to do that without moving the Pac 12 to the East Coast. That's just the reality of the old US of A.

[_LH]

IF it's successful. Which I think is a big question mark.

A&M seems to disagree.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/8/31/2396286/Big12-Texas-Oklahoma-bob-stoops-Sooners-UCLA-Southern-Cal


'A year ago, Stoops endorsed the idea of OU joining the then-Pac-10 when that league attempted to expand to 16 members. He confirmed Tuesday that membership in a Pac-16 still excites him.

"Think about it," Stoops said. "A (league) championship game in the Rose Bowl, going to USC to play, the Rose Bowl and playing UCLA (the storied stadium serves as the Bruins' home field) ..."

Stoops also still believes if the Sooners eventually head west that it's vital to take at least three Big 12 teams with them. When commissioner Larry Scott was trying to grow the Pac-10 to 16 teams, he wanted to add OU, Oklahoma State, Texas and possibly Texas Tech.

"It's very important, because of (playing) games in this area and recruiting in Texas is still going to matter to us," Stoops said of at least two Texas-based Big 12 teams joining OU on the Left Coast. "Half our games would be here, and then we'd have a couple down there (Texas) for recruiting purposes."

Another Oklahoma link about options:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-oklahoma-states-most-likely-options-strengthen-big-12-leave-for-a-pac-16/article/3599892?custom_click=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[waggy]

A&M seems to disagree.

They are not mutually exclusive. Bad for A&M doesn't necessarily mean success for the network. And with A&M's departure, even less so.

[bobbiemcgee]

They won't get the mega deal at 14 teams? Why not? Adding two more at the end is just two more mouths at the table. Again, I see no reason to add teams 15 and 16. Who would they be?

Of course they will get more for 16 than 14. If they have a chance to get what they perceive as the best 16 in their part of the country, why wouldn't they before someone else offers?
Their commiss has already said he could go to 16.

[_LH]

They are not mutually exclusive. Bad for A&M doesn't necessarily mean success for the network. And with A&M's departure, even less so.

If it has a good chance of failing like you think I would think A&M wouldn't be worried.

[_LH]

Of course they will get more for 16 than 14. If they have a chance to get what they perceive as the best 16 in their part of the country, why wouldn't they before someone else offers?
Their commiss has already said he could go to 16.

Not necessarily. Have you even eaten a pie?

They could be just as successful at 14 teams and not have two other mouths to feed. The last two to actually join the PAC 16 would not be that desireable.

[_LH]

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2011/8/31/2396286/Big12-Texas-Oklahoma-bob-stoops-Sooners-UCLA-Southern-Cal


'A year ago, Stoops endorsed the idea of OU joining the then-Pac-10 when that league attempted to expand to 16 members. He confirmed Tuesday that membership in a Pac-16 still excites him.

"Think about it," Stoops said. "A (league) championship game in the Rose Bowl, going to USC to play, the Rose Bowl and playing UCLA (the storied stadium serves as the Bruins' home field) ..."

Stoops also still believes if the Sooners eventually head west that it's vital to take at least three Big 12 teams with them. When commissioner Larry Scott was trying to grow the Pac-10 to 16 teams, he wanted to add OU, Oklahoma State, Texas and possibly Texas Tech.

"It's very important, because of (playing) games in this area and recruiting in Texas is still going to matter to us," Stoops said of at least two Texas-based Big 12 teams joining OU on the Left Coast. "Half our games would be here, and then we'd have a couple down there (Texas) for recruiting purposes."

Another Oklahoma link about options:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-oklahoma-states-most-likely-options-strengthen-big-12-leave-for-a-pac-16/article/3599892?custom_click=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Why would the other existing PAC teams want Texas Tech for example? I can see them being interested in OU and OSU but after that what do they really gain by adding two more teams?

[waggy]

If it has a good chance of failing like you think I would think A&M wouldn't be worried.

Maybe A&M just wants a level playing field.

[chico]

Not necessarily. Have you even eaten a pie?



Maybe they should all go independent.

[_LH]

Maybe they should all go independent.

There are some that can.

[_LH]

Maybe A&M just wants a level playing field.

Wouldn't PAC 12 teams feel the same way?

[waggy]

Wouldn't PAC 12 teams feel the same way?

I would think so.

[_LH]

I would think so.

So you don't think that the PAC 12 collectively would be all that interested in adding Texas with that baggage?

[bobbiemcgee]

Not necessarily. Have you even eaten a pie?

.

What size pie? 16 inch pie seems bigger than 12. Not the same pie.

[XUglow]

Because Larry Scott has indicated he will do whatever it takes to make the Pac 12 the premier conference in America.

Might I suggest winning on the football field. Adding teams just makes you bigger.

[_LH]

What size pie? 16 inch pie seems bigger than 12. Not the same pie.

If you and 3 others are eating a 16 inch pie and each gets a same size slice do you get a bigger or smaller piece if you invite 2 more to eat the pie and give all 6 an equal share?

Adding 15 and 16 to the PAC 14 doesn't make much sense.

[muskienick]

If you and 3 others are eating a 16 inch pie and each gets a same size slice do you get a bigger or smaller piece if you invite 2 more to eat the pie and give all 6 an equal share?

Adding 15 and 16 to the PAC 14 doesn't make much sense.

If you are adding quality to the mix, it makes a lot of sense. Consider the effect of one or two more teams making a BCS Bowl or advancing in the NCAA March Madness Tournament. Those dollars add up quickly and can often more than compensate for the additional pie eaters. Furthermore, if the quality being added includes attractive media markets, the additional income to the Conference could be increased exponentially through more lucrative TV packages (or networks).

[xudash]

If you and 3 others are eating a 16 inch pie and each gets a same size slice do you get a bigger or smaller piece if you invite 2 more to eat the pie and give all 6 an equal share?

Adding 15 and 16 to the PAC 14 doesn't make much sense.

What data do you have on the revenue side of the equation (tv contract adjustments) that leads you to that conclusion? You can't make a definitive statement like that without having that information. The size of the pie is going to > as well. The question that people around here can't possibly answer at this point is by how much it will increase in order to determine what the size of each slice will become.

[bearcat65]

I can only see at most 2 ACC schools leaving the ACC. They could add Syracuse and UCONN and be just fine.

Depend on which 2 schools leave. If it's Virginia Tech and Florida State then the ACC becomes a very pedestrian football conference and will not be that attractive. Even if it's just Virginia Tech you have to wonder how attractive the ACC would be given the issues at Miami and North Carolina.
Personally I think the SEC is looking at Missouri to come along with Texas Tech. State school which opens up a new market in Saint Louis. Missouri may be waiting on a Big 10 invite but given what happened last year they have to wonder if that will ever materialize.
There are a ton of scenerios which could unfold but right now the Big 12 looks to be teetering. I think what Oklahoma does determines whether it survives.

[xudash]

Depend on which 2 schools leave. If it's Virginia Tech and Florida State then the ACC becomes a very pedestrian football conference and will not be that attractive. Even if it's just Virginia Tech you have to wonder how attractive the ACC would be given the issues at Miami and North Carolina.
Personally I think the SEC is looking at Missouri to come along with Texas Tech. State school which opens up a new market in Saint Louis. Missouri may be waiting on a Big 10 invite but given what happened last year they have to wonder if that will ever materialize.
There are a ton of scenerios which could unfold but right now the Big 12 looks to be teetering. I think what Oklahoma does determines whether it survives.

I agree with you about Mizzou going to the SEC. I read somewhere where Mizzou and Arkansas want to crank up a dormant rivalry.

The SEC has been pretty clear so far about wanting to absorb new footprint in this effort. That's good for VTech and Mizzou, and not so good for FSU, Clemson and GTech, etc.

[MCXU]

Because of the Big Tens insistence on new members being members of the AAU their options for expansion are limited to basically the following when considering geography. (Funny how Nebraska lost its AAU membership when it joined the BIG TEN)

Dream Team

1) Notre Dame – Not an AAU member but the Big Ten will take them if they ever decide to join a conference

Most Likely Options

1) Rutgers – New York City Market
2) Maryland – New Market Washington D.C, Baltimore
3) Missouri – Would make more sense now that Nebraska is in the conference
4) Virginia – I got to wonder if the Big Ten is on the phone with the SEC working out a plan to have Va. Tech go to the SEC if Virginia goes to the BIG TEN. That may help calm the politicians in VA to allow the schools to split

Other teams that maybe considered but not likely

1) Texas – Geography isn’t great and does the Big Ten want to mess with the TV network
2) Pittsburgh – No new market, if not for Penn St. I think Pitt would get an invite.
3)Vanderbilt – Geography isn’t great but I wouldn’t be shocked if the BIG Ten did this. Not sure Vandy would even accept.
4a) North Carolina – Geography is not impossible, but I see no way Duke and UNC split
4b) Duke - Geography is not impossible, but I see no way Duke and UNC split
5) Georgia Tech – Geography issues
6) Iowa State – No new Market
7) Kansas – New market but it only includes 8 people.

[GoMuskies]

7) Kansas – New market but it only includes 8 people.

Hey, I resent that!

Note that Kansas City is a decent sized market that you capture with KU.

[XUglow]

hey, i resent that!

Note that kansas city brings another 8 people that you capture with ku.

fify.

[_LH]

If you are adding quality to the mix, it makes a lot of sense. Consider the effect of one or two more teams making a BCS Bowl or advancing in the NCAA March Madness Tournament. Those dollars add up quickly and can often more than compensate for the additional pie eaters. Furthermore, if the quality being added includes attractive media markets, the additional income to the Conference could be increased exponentially through more lucrative TV packages (or networks).

True but in this exercise who are the last two...teams 15 and 16?

[_LH]

What data do you have on the revenue side of the equation (tv contract adjustments) that leads you to that conclusion? You can't make a definitive statement like that without having that information. The size of the pie is going to > as well. The question that people around here can't possibly answer at this point is by how much it will increase in order to determine what the size of each slice will become.

So if the PAC 14 has a $200 million TV deal, you think it will be increased by adding two teams?

[_LH]

Depend on which 2 schools leave. If it's Virginia Tech and Florida State then the ACC becomes a very pedestrian football conference and will not be that attractive. Even if it's just Virginia Tech you have to wonder how attractive the ACC would be given the issues at Miami and North Carolina.
Personally I think the SEC is looking at Missouri to come along with Texas Tech. State school which opens up a new market in Saint Louis. Missouri may be waiting on a Big 10 invite but given what happened last year they have to wonder if that will ever materialize.
There are a ton of scenerios which could unfold but right now the Big 12 looks to be teetering. I think what Oklahoma does determines whether it survives.

I thought the SEC didn't want more than one program in a US state? If so, no FSU, no Texas Tech.

The ACC would be able to raid the BE if they lose a team or two and be just fine.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yes -

bigger pie = more dough kneaded.

[_LH]

Yes -

bigger pie = more dough kneaded.

Is that how it works in the A14? What value do Fordham and LaSalle bring? They add nothing but take from the pie. Adding just to add makes no sense. Any mythical TV deal for a 14 team PAC would not be increased simply by adding two teams, they have to be the right teams. So, who would be the 15th and 16th teams that would actually add value. If getting to 16 is all they care about they could have gotten to 16 years ago.

[bobbiemcgee]

Is that how it works in the A14? What value do Fordham and LaSalle bring? They add nothing but take from the pie. Adding just to add makes no sense. Any mythical TV deal for a 14 team PAC would not be increased simply by adding two teams, they have to be the right teams. So, who would be the 15th and 16th teams that would actually add value. If getting to 16 is all they care about they could have gotten to 16 years ago.

Getting the right teams has always been a given. Do you think Pepperdine and SDSU will be approached?

[_LH]

Getting the right teams has always been a given. Do you think Pepperdine and SDSU will be approached?

So who do they take? This is about the 10th time I've asked this question. They can get to a solid 14 by adding OU and OSU and after that I don't see anyone all that attractive for the PAC 14.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

So who do they take? This is about the 10th time I've asked this question. .

This has been covered. In an ideal world, the Pac 12 would take Oklahoma, OSU, Texas Tech, and Texas in a heartbeat.

However, the LHN/ESPN deal complicates matters. Any conference would want Texas, but the LHN/ESPN deal has to be modified

[_LH]

This has been covered. In an ideal world, the Pac 12 would take Oklahoma, OSU, Texas Tech, and Texas in a heartbeat.

However, the LHN/ESPN deal complicates matters. Any conference would want Texas, but the LHN/ESPN deal has to be modified

We have not been over this and AGAIN this does not answer the question. Why not just throw out ND while your at it. I'm asking for legit 15th and 16th teams assuming OSU and OU make them a 14 team conference.

Jimmy throws out Texas Tech. Is the league better with Texas Tech or fine at 14. What would they get by adding Tech other than another mouth to feed?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

We have not been over this and AGAIN this does not answer the question. Why not just throw out ND while your at it. I'm asking for legit 15th and 16th teams assuming OSU and OU make them a 14 team conference.

Jimmy throws out Texas Tech. Is the league better with Texas Tech or fine at 14. What would they get by adding Tech other than another mouth to feed?

First of all, I didn't throw anything out. This is all speculation from experts.

Second, you're right. The pac-12 does not want Texas Tech by themselves. But last year TT was included with Texas as a package. So if the Pac 12 gets Texas, who they want, they would most likely get Texas Tech as well.

Things might have changed with the LHN Deal, but many still believe Texas wants to look out for Texas Tech as well

[_LH]

First of all, I didn't throw anything out. This is all speculation from experts.

Second, you're right. The pac-12 does not want Texas Tech by themselves. But last year TT was included with Texas as a package. So if the Pac 12 gets Texas, who they want, they would most likely get Texas Tech as well.

Things might have changed with the LHN Deal, but many still believe Texas wants to look out for Texas Tech as well

Yes, you just threw them out. Texas is not going to happen due to their network. So who is your 16th? Glad you realize Tech would make no sense.

I really don't see the Pac going to 16 teams. 14, maybe but not 16.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Yes, you just threw them out. Texas is not going to happen due to their network. So who is your 16th? Glad you realize Tech would make no sense.

I really don't see the Pac going to 16 teams. 14, maybe but not 16.

This isn't that difficult to understand _LH. You asked for a 16th team, I gave you the Pac 12's dream scenario that nearly happened last year. Texas without the LHN, TT, Oklahoma, and OSU. I even agreed with you that Texas would be unlikely because of the LHN and TT by itself doesn't make sense.

Now you've just disagreed with your own statement from earlier as well as mine

[_LH]

This isn't that difficult to understand _LH. You asked for a 16th team, I gave you the Pac 12's dream scenario that nearly happened last year. Texas without the LHN, TT, Oklahoma, and OSU. I even agreed with you that Texas would be unlikely because of the LHN and TT by itself doesn't make sense.

Now you've just disagreed with your own statement from earlier as well as mine

Still can't answer the question. Why not throw out the Dallas Cowboys?

One more time. Assuming the PAC adds OU and OSU, why would they need to add two more, who would they even add and don't give me dream teams, give me legit teams that would want to join and the PAC 14 would like to add.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Still can't answer the question. Why not throw out the Dallas Cowboys?

One more time. Assuming the PAC adds OU and OSU, why would they need to add two more, who would they even add and don't give me dream teams, give me legit teams that would want to join and the PAC 14 would like to add.

Why? More revenue

Who? Ask Larry Scott. He's the one talking about it


Its very simple _LH. I don't understand how you don't understand I am agreeing with you for the most part

[_LH]

Why? More revenue

Who? Ask Larry Scott. He's the one talking about it


Its very simple _LH. I don't understand how you don't understand I am agreeing with you for the most part

So add Pepperdine tomorrow! They don't need to get to 16 teams, plain and simple.

Still can't aswer the question can you?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb248/DanDierdorf/naked-gun-facepalm.gif

[STL_XUfan]

Hey, I resent that!

Note that Kansas City is a decent sized market that you capture with KU.

But if you take Mizzou you get STL and KC.

[GoMuskies]

Hard to do if Mizzou is the SEC, though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://espn.go.com/colleges/oklahoma/football/story/_/id/6914409/time-oklahoma-power-conference-realignment

Wednesday morning, Texas A&M made it official. The Aggies notified the Big 12 Conference they will be applying to join the SEC.

What does this mean for Oklahoma?

Bob Stoops said recently that the Sooners "have a strong hand to play."

And he's right.

If OU wants the Big 12 to survive, it will. But if the Sooners decide the Big 12 is not worth salvaging, the league will quickly dissolve.

This time around, Texas does not hold all the cards and the Sooners have fewer obstacles in their path to another conference.

In reality, Brigham Young is the only viable candidate capable of keeping the Big 12 together. BYU would expand the Big 12 footprint and bring a national TV audience to the table, because of its Mormon following.

[+] Enlarge
AP Photo/Matt Strasen
Bob Stoops and Oklahoma are in a strong position if the Big 12 falls apart.
Yet if BYU turns the Big 12 down, the league could begin to dissemble quickly.
But should that happen, the Sooners have options.

The SEC, which invited OU to join its league last year, would likely come calling again. The league would love to make the Sooners its 14th member along with the Aggies.

But for OU, that's a last resort.

Instead, the Sooners first will wait and see if Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott makes another move.

OU president David Boren is charmed by the idea of aligning OU's law school with Stanford and Cal-Berkeley; its fine arts school with UCLA and USC. Academically, the SEC can't compete with that.

On the field, Stoops called the idea of expanding OU's recruiting base to California "pretty cool" last summer.

With Texas A&M opening the doors even wider to the SEC recruiting Texas' high school talent, it would be prudent for the Sooners to have another recruiting pipeline.

The Sooners were all set to go to the Pac-12 with the Longhorns last summer, until the Texas state legislature reportedly stopped the deal at the final hour.

The agreement was in place. Schedules had already been worked out, with the conference football championship rotating between the Rose Bowl and Cowboys Stadium.

This time, the Sooners may not wait around for Texas to make up its mind.

Expansion may not be as attractive to the Pac-12 without Texas. But with college football headed inevitably to superconferences, it's worthwhile. If Scott was willing to add Utah and Colorado, he would surely be willing to add OU, Oklahoma State, and some combination of Kansas, Missouri and Texas Tech.

Heck, the Pac-12 and Texas may even be able to work something out. The Longhorns don't really want to be left out as an independent, do they?

Either way, the Sooners have a strong hand to play.

The future of the Big 12 is on life support. The future of Oklahoma surely is not.

Jake Trotter covers University of Oklahoma football for SoonerNation.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/18589620/views/1,width=178,height=178/smh-shaking-my-head_design.png

[xudash]

So if the PAC 14 has a $200 million TV deal, you think it will be increased by adding two teams?

Are you that stupid? How do you think the $200 million was arrived at in the first place? I guess you are that stupid, if you're going to open yourself up like that.

Before you attempt to come back with one of your trite answers and soil yourself again, the $200 million was based on some math having to do with viewership ratings and estimates. The contract will be calibrated based on recalculating for teams 15 and 16 and their impact on that deal, because the PACx didn't enter into a fixed price contract.

[MADXSTER]

If you and 3 others are eating a 16 inch pie and each gets a same size slice do you get a bigger or smaller piece if you invite 2 more to eat the pie and give all 6 an equal share?

Adding 15 and 16 to the PAC 14 doesn't make much sense.

But wouldn't the pie turn into a 24" pie?

[_LH]

Are you that stupid? How do you think the $200 million was arrived at in the first place? I guess you are that stupid, if you're going to open yourself up like that.

Before you attempt to come back with one of your trite answers and soil yourself again, the $200 million was based on some math having to do with viewership ratings and estimates. The contract will be calibrated based on recalculating for teams 15 and 16 and their impact on that deal, because the PACx didn't enter into a fixed price contract.

The $200 million came from the 14 team PAC league. Are you that stupid? You must be.

It would not be increased then by just adding two more teams. Seriously. Not all teams make sense to add. You don't add just to add.

Under your scenario the PAC should have gone to 16 teams last year by adding Boise St., TCU, Hawaii, Fresno St.

[chico]

The $200 million came from the 14 team PAC league. Are you that stupid? You must be.

It would not be increased then by just adding two more teams. Seriously, you can't be that dumb. Not all teams make sense to add. You don't add just to add. Damn your stupid!!

Under your ignorant scenario the PAC should have gone to 16 teams last year by adding Boise St., TCU, Hawaii, Fresno St.

You know, it's one thing to do your little act with Jimmy and PMI because they're having fun with you, but when you go after a guy like dash, your true colors come out. You really need to go away, and soon. You bring nothing of value to any conversation in which you participate, you are mean-spirited to anyone - and I mean anyone - who disagrees with your preposterous rantings, and 99.9% of the time you are the only one taking a certain side of the argument. My guess is you spend your spare time walking the streets of downtown arguing with parking meters.

I've said my peace - sorry to hijack the thread even more than it has been - but I'm done with this loon. Go ahead, chief, call me an idiot, tell me I'm owned with some pithy comment a 4th grader wouldn't consider clever, knock yourself out.

[_LH]

You know, it's one thing to do your little act with Jimmy and PMI because they're having fun with you, but when you go after a guy like dash, your true colors come out. You really need to go away, and soon. You bring nothing of value to any conversation in which you participate, you are mean-spirited to anyone - and I mean anyone - who disagrees with your preposterous rantings, and 99.9% of the time you are the only one taking a certain side of the argument. My guess is you spend your spare time walking the streets of downtown arguing with parking meters.

I've said my peace - sorry to hijack the thread even more than it has been - but I'm done with this loon. Go ahead, chief, call me an idiot, tell me I'm owned with some pithy comment a 4th grader wouldn't consider clever, knock yourself out.

Listen here. Dash started it. I was having a decent conversation and offered up points that have been given by so called experts and simply asked what any conference gets by adding just to add. Dash doesn't get it and you obviously don't either. I have hijacked nothing. Never have.