Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[paulxu]

Swofford end runs everybody.

[Masterofreality]

The thing is too, that if the B1G wanted to go to 16, they would never take SucKS because Oh-ho-ho State would never allow it and it doesn't improve the Network footprint. Taking Mizzou from the SEC, which does not have a GOR and UCon that would give some New England Network footprint would make much more sense.

Bottom Line, Santa and his elves/jaundiced leprechauns are stuck out in the Arctic Cold.....without a sleigh. :loco:

[coasterville95]

MoR must have missed the lecture on not over zealously laughing at others misfortunes. :).

(While I enjoy a hearty laugh thinking about what words might have been uttered in the high echelons of their athletic and administrative offices.)

Anybody feel bad for Whit Babcock? Arrived last fall, first gets to deal with the brawl, then a football coach leaving, then getting turned down by the ACC then watching as all the remaining quality basketball programs in the conference bolt, taking their in city rival with them. Now this.

Housekeeping to Whit Babcocks office to clean the pile of puke on the floor.

[paulxu]

Bottom Line, Santa and his elves/jaundiced leprechauns are stuck out in the Arctic Cold.....without a sleigh. :loco:

A.....fl......AC.


This is good news for everyone … except Cincinnati, South Florida and UConn.

Looks like they’re going to be stuck in the AAC for quite some time.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/22/why-major-conference-realignment-may-be-over-for-the-foreseeable-future/

[Masterofreality]

And here's Enemaquirer's SucKS' honk Bill Koch's take.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130422/SPT0101/304220151/ACC-deal-could-force-Bearcats-stay-put

[Masterofreality]

MoR must have missed the lecture on not over zealously laughing at others misfortunes. :).


I passed on the Sensitivity Reflection Sessions. There was beer to be drunk.

[Juice]

And here's Enemaquirer's SucKS' honk Bill Koch's take.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130422/SPT0101/304220151/ACC-deal-could-force-Bearcats-stay-put

One of the commenters (smart bunch) says that the focused should shift to the Big 12. If I'm Texas or Oklahoma I would throw a shit fit before I let a football program like UC's into the same conference as mine.

[XU '11]

At what point does UConn scrap football (or at least drop to FCS) to join the Big East? This has to be a real discussion now.

• Big East schools are profiting more on a per-school basis than the AAC schools starting next year.
• UConn's (and UC's and USF's) athletics budget is getting decimated by this move.
•*They can't drop any women's programs due to Title IX and the pressure that having FBS football applies to gender equality
• 9 out of 10 conference opponents are a 10+ hour drive away. That means every conference away game for baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc will be a flight with the exception of Temple.

I simply don't understand how these schools will operate at the status quo with the lack of revenue that their previous BCS deal gave them. Yeah, Houston, UCF, Temple, SMU, etc are also disappointed but they'll still be making about the same as they were in the CUSA/MAC/A10. If you're going to have a conference that is as spread out as this one is, there better be a reason for it. Usually that reason is $$$. Here, I don't know what it is.

(As a side note, I can't imagine it being an option for Cincinnati or USF because I don't think there is any sort of guarantee they'd get into the Big East anyway. I think Villanova, Georgetown, St Johns and Providence would have a hard time turning away UConn even though they are a large, public university.)

[Packard51]

Am i missing something as far as seating at the nip as they call it. 19000 for senior day this year. and temperature in the 60's and sunny. I say their battle cry should be Please MAC take us back!!!

[Seven Eighths]

At what point does UConn scrap football (or at least drop to FCS) to join the Big East? This has to be a real discussion now.

• Big East schools are profiting more on a per-school basis than the AAC schools starting next year.
• UConn's (and UC's and USF's) athletics budget is getting decimated by this move.
•*They can't drop any women's programs due to Title IX and the pressure that having FBS football applies to gender equality
• 9 out of 10 conference opponents are a 10+ hour drive away. That means every conference away game for baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc will be a flight with the exception of Temple.

I simply don't understand how these schools will operate at the status quo with the lack of revenue that their previous BCS deal gave them. Yeah, Houston, UCF, Temple, SMU, etc are also disappointed but they'll still be making about the same as they were in the CUSA/MAC/A10. If you're going to have a conference that is as spread out as this one is, there better be a reason for it. Usually that reason is $$$. Here, I don't know what it is.

(As a side note, I can't imagine it being an option for Cincinnati or USF because I don't think there is any sort of guarantee they'd get into the Big East anyway. I think Villanova, Georgetown, St Johns and Providence would have a hard time turning away UConn even though they are a large, public university.)

I know it is a source of pride for UCONN alumni and UCONN did spend a lot of money and effort to move up to DI but I agree it may be best for UCONN to dump football or drop down if they can get in the BE for all other sports.

[xudash]

At what point does UConn scrap football (or at least drop to FCS) to join the Big East? This has to be a real discussion now.

• Big East schools are profiting more on a per-school basis than the AAC schools starting next year.
• UConn's (and UC's and USF's) athletics budget is getting decimated by this move.
•*They can't drop any women's programs due to Title IX and the pressure that having FBS football applies to gender equality
• 9 out of 10 conference opponents are a 10+ hour drive away. That means every conference away game for baseball, volleyball, soccer, etc will be a flight with the exception of Temple.

I simply don't understand how these schools will operate at the status quo with the lack of revenue that their previous BCS deal gave them. Yeah, Houston, UCF, Temple, SMU, etc are also disappointed but they'll still be making about the same as they were in the CUSA/MAC/A10. If you're going to have a conference that is as spread out as this one is, there better be a reason for it. Usually that reason is $$$. Here, I don't know what it is.

(As a side note, I can't imagine it being an option for Cincinnati or USF because I don't think there is any sort of guarantee they'd get into the Big East anyway. I think Villanova, Georgetown, St Johns and Providence would have a hard time turning away UConn even though they are a large, public university.)

Excellent question, but a huge - HUGE - dilema for UCONN. Why? Because the University's President gets to stare out his window each day at a 40k seat stadium built for $91million, which opened in 2003. Taxpayer money. The state owns the damn thing.

I don't think people there are into tractor pulls and other absurd uses for what might otherwise become a monument to abject failure on the part of a university.

[xudash]

...and this, for UC related news:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/04/acc-deal-strikes-blow-to-ucs-plan-to.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-04-23&u=nBaExrqRSIS0+8tOrwQRvSDJvwN&page=2

[SM#24]

At what point does UConn scrap football (or at least drop to FCS) to join the Big East? This has to be a real discussion now.

While if in the long run UConn cannot get into one of the Big 5 football conferences, I think their best move is to try and get a football only deal with the American or CUSA (I know the American would balk, but it's worth an ask since they gave that deal to Navy); in the short term, I'm guessing they cannot leave the American without leaving a pile of money on the table from the BE separation.

[GoMuskies]

Because the University's President gets to stare out his window each day at a 40k seat stadium built for $91million, which opened in 2003. Taxpayer money. The state owns the damn thing.


The football stadium is in E. Hartford and campus is in Storrs. So he is at least spared having to look at the thing from his office. Pretty nice stadium but certainly very small for "big-time" football. A helluva lot nicer than Boston College's dump, though.

[GoMuskies]

College Football Playoff. Very creative. Don Draper's work?

[xudash]

The football stadium is in E. Hartford and campus is in Storrs. So he is at least spared having to look at the thing from his office. Pretty nice stadium but certainly very small for "big-time" football. A helluva lot nicer than Boston College's dump, though.

I was doing a little "story telling" with respect to what the President can see out his window.

[Caveat]

The hard reality is that any school not in the "Power 5" is effectively a D-1AA program anyway -- the financial disparity is off-the-charts, the talent disparity will follow.

Schools like Cincinnati and UConn, who have traditions in basketball they can support, would be well-advised to understand that and act accordingly.

[SM#24]

this is a pretty good recap:
http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2012/9/24/3393896/conference-changes-2013-14-college-basketball

[DC Muskie]

this is a pretty good recap:
http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2012/9/24/3393896/conference-changes-2013-14-college-basketball

I don't like the move Loyola made to the Patriot. Expanded that league too much with Boston U.

[muskiefan82]

Grand Canyon to the WAC. Even for the WAC, that move is WAC. How long until Grand Canyon appears on UC's schedule?

[GoMuskies]

The Dude was obviously fully of feces all along, but even HE has come around to the inevitability of the Big XII being the "BCS" conference that will eventually die and not the ACC.

http://www.sportsmancave.com/expansion-update-just-when-you-thought-it-was-over/

[El Shaqtus]

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 7h

@ateague If I were inclined/allowed to gamble on it, would bet a bunch Ash will not play in A-10.

Looks like our number may be up soon. This is the first piece of good conference news for us in awhile.

*disclaimer that it's one guy's opinion.

[GoMuskies]

Who's Ash?

[El Shaqtus]

Who's Ash?

Achraf Yacoubou, transfer from Villanova. I know some people around STL were surprised they let him come to SLU with all the blocked transfers of late.

[X-band '01]

That's good - I thought given the nature of this thread that UNC-Asheville was going to be a future A-10 candidate.

[El Shaqtus]

That's good - I thought given the nature of this thread that UNC-Asheville was going to be a future A-10 candidate.

I'm getting worried they still will be. Siena is Dayton in training, so I'm hoping we beat the traffic out of the league.

[xu95]

The Dude was obviously fully of feces all along, but even HE has come around to the inevitability of the Big XII being the "BCS" conference that will eventually die and not the ACC.

http://www.sportsmancave.com/expansion-update-just-when-you-thought-it-was-over/

He still is full of feces. THere is absolutely no way that the SEC has promised WVU a spot. There are a ton of better choices than WVU.

[muskiefan82]

Who's Ash?

Isn't he a Pokemon master? That's what my kids tell me.

[paulxu]

Well, this should be interesting to watch.
It's too early in the morning to figure out how this might impact Xavier and BE basketball.
Plus, they're talking about Division 4 and they actually have 5 conferences. I do like the 8 team playoff idea though.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

[Muskie]

Well, this should be interesting to watch.
It's too early in the morning to figure out how this might impact Xavier and BE basketball.
Plus, they're talking about Division 4 and they actually have 5 conferences. I do like the 8 team playoff idea though.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

I'd like to take this opportunity to say thanks for ruining college sports.

[outsideobserver11]

I'd like to take this opportunity to say thanks for ruining college sports.

No kidding. I can't wait until this bubble bursts because it is bound to happen at some point. With the amount of Cable television sets actually dropping thanks to the likes of Netflix, etc. its a disaster waiting to happen. The worst part is the greediest of them all (Texas, Ohio State) will be fine but the schools like Iowa State and Wake Forest that depend on this TV money more will be collectively bent over.

[Masterofreality]

All I can say is that SucKS is on the outside looking in. HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahH AHAHA!......HA!

The NCAA Tournament will not be affected....because it is a huge moneymaker and there is too much media pressure to keep it as it is. Xavier and the BE really won't be affected. This is all about football....and the football conferences memberships are set as to the Grant of Rights.

The Borecats are screwed. Done, Finis, no matter what they do with their bog of a football field.

Nothing like a glorious fall afternoon with football at the Nipple....against Fordham....with 4,0000 disinterested spectators.

[outsideobserver11]

All I can say is that SucKS is on the outside looking in. HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahH AHAHA!......HA!

The NCAA Tournament will not be affected....because it is a huge moneymaker and there is too much media pressure to keep it as it is. Xavier and the BE really won't be affected. This is all about football....and the football conferences memberships are set as to the Grant of Rights.

The Borecats are screwed. Done, Finis, no matter what they do with their bog of a football field.

Nothing like a glorious fall afternoon with football at the Nipple....against Fordham....with 4,0000 disinterested spectators.

I'm gonna assume that was a misplaced comma rather than a zero. :biggrin:

But yes, most bearcat fans are finally coming to terms with the fact that there is nothing we can do to change the position except hope somebody throws us a life raft because it went out of our hands completely the day the ACC GOR came about.

[Pluto]

It affects basketball because top players will want to go to the division 4 schools and get paid.

[LA Muskie]

All I can say is that SucKS is on the outside looking in. HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahH AHAHA!......HA!

The NCAA Tournament will not be affected....because it is a huge moneymaker and there is too much media pressure to keep it as it is. Xavier and the BE really won't be affected. This is all about football....and the football conferences memberships are set as to the Grant of Rights.

The Borecats are screwed. Done, Finis, no matter what they do with their bog of a football field.

Nothing like a glorious fall afternoon with football at the Nipple....against Fordham....with 4,0000 disinterested spectators.
I think you are kidding yourself if you think this won't affect the Big East and Xavier. It starts with football, but ultimately this will be the separation of the BCS conferences from the NCAA -- if not formally, then at least effectively. At first they will pay their football players. Then they will apply the same principle to basketball -- it is revenue generating and therefore the players deserve a cut. At that point we will be competing for recruits against what amount to professional basketball clubs.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier will have to pay to play. It will put that "Forbes 20" status to the test.

[LA Muskie]

Xavier will have to pay to play. It will put that "Forbes 20" status to the test.
Xavier won't be allowed to pay to play. We will be in a division that doesn't permit it.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier won't be allowed to pay to play. We will be in a division that doesn't permit it.

If it comes to paying basketball players, I cannot imagine that the Big East will not get that option.

[LA Muskie]

If it comes to paying basketball players, I cannot imagine that the Big East will not get that option.
I certainly hope it does, but Bowlsby's words (and he speaks carefully) tell me that the BCS is looking for separation and competitive advantage. He said that it is too easy to get into Div. 1 and too easy to stay there. I think they are gunning for a Div. 4 of about 64 schools. Those schools will pay. The smaller schools that don't want to pay (or can't pay) will have even more say in what is left of Div. 1. And they have made their opinions loud and clear about paying student athletes.

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, I just think the Big East will be a part of that 64, at least if they want to be (and not being part of it will be death to athletics at that school).

[LA Muskie]

Yeah, I just think the Big East will be a part of that 64, at least if they want to be (and not being part of it will be death to athletics at that school).
I pray you are right. If so, it's actually great for us. If not, it's a huge...HUGE...problem.

PS: And by "great for us" I mean that we keep our place at the table. I think this all sucks in general, though.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure if would be great for Xavier or not. It might just be a huge financial drain. Probably beats the alternative, though.

[Xaveriana]

July 23, 2013 - A day that will live in infamy...the day the music died. :-(

Corruption, Corruption, Corruption!!!

Greed, Greed, Greed!!!

[paulxu]

Doesn't that Title Whatever require schools to spend equally on women's sports?
I probably got that all screwed up. If not, then there will be a lot of happy women's tennis players.

Also, since colleges are effectively minor leagues for football and basketball, unlike baseball, this is just moving closer to recognize that, and maybe this also helps them do away with that lawsuit about using names/likenesses. This way they can sign that right away for a pittance while in school.

I think I will focus on basketball this year. This could be our year to do something big. We've got a lot of pieces in place, and after last year it's time to get back at it.

[blobfan]

Is this really likely? As soon as the BCS makes a move don't you think Congress is going to step in and schedule weeks of hearings? This is the kind of stuff that makes them drool because everyone has an opinion and it's a noisy issue that hides the real problems and all the legislation not being passed. If it happens I see Congress threatening to pass a law repealing non-profit status from universities that pay student athletes, or similar. They'll come up with something and they'll be more than happy to take weeks to do it.

[paulxu]

Here Dash, this is right in your wheelhouse.
I don't even pretend to understand it.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/07/25/basketball-conferences-make-best-partners-for-power-5.htm

[xudash]

Here Dash, this is right in your wheelhouse.
I don't even pretend to understand it.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/07/25/basketball-conferences-make-best-partners-for-power-5.htm

It is easier to get behind a stipend or full cost-of-attendance scholarships when you are not starting with 85 football players. Not to mention this preserves some of the character of college sports, especially the allure of the Cinderella mid-major.

I truly believe that the BCS gang know full well the value of the NCAA Tournament as currently structured. Retaining reasonable inclusiveness and the Cinderella thing is tantamount to its continued economic (TV) value.


The end result is that we could easily see a situation where the new Big East (i.e. the Catholic schools) is playing at a higher level than the old Big East (i.e. the American). Or where USF (the one in California) finds itself on the right side of the chasm while USF (the one in Florida) loses out.

I'll take that all day long.


p.s. I presume the Nippert Stadium renovation is being accomplished with 100% private donations. I wonder if those people are watching all this closely enough.

[paulxu]

This is interesting regarding the last few years:

National Titles in Baseball, Football and Men's Basketball since 05-06:
SEC 13
Pac-12 3
Big 12 2
ACC 2
Big East 2
WAC 1
Big Ten 0

[GoMuskies]

It's unfair to expect the Big Ten to win anything in baseball or football. I suppose Fresno winning the CWS was the WAC's 1. They were the equivalent of a 13 or 14 seed in the basketball tournament. Quite a run.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville back to the AAC: http://www.cardchronicle.com/2013/11/8/5081476/louisvilles-move-to-the-acc-suddenly-not-a-done-deal

[X-band '01]

If I'm reading that correctly, their move would be held up as long as Maryland's exit fee status remains in limbo.

I don't think it will sit well with the B1G if they wind up only taking in Rutgers next season.

[paulxu]

If you stayed there you could get an auto bid to the 8 team eventual football playoff.

[BMoreX]

They'll get it done. No doubt about it.

[GoMuskies]

Maryland suffered a legal setback today. Motion to dismiss denied by the NC Court of Appeals.

http://www.wbal.com/article/103996/2/template-story/Appeals-Ruling-Goes-Against-Maryland-In-ACC-Case-

[X-band '01]

No shock considering this was the ACC's lawsuit against Maryland in a North Carolina court of law.

Also bear in mind that Maryland is also suing the ACC (currently on hold pending a final outcome in North Carolina) in a Maryland court of law to avoid paying the $50+ million exit fee. I'd have to think that, in the end, you'll have a federal court on some level deciding the final outcome of this case.

[xudash]

No shock considering this was the ACC's lawsuit against Maryland in a North Carolina court of law.

Also bear in mind that Maryland is also suing the ACC (currently on hold pending a final outcome in North Carolina) in a Maryland court of law to avoid paying the $50+ million exit fee. I'd have to think that, in the end, you'll have a federal court on some level deciding the final outcome of this case.

I foresee a negotiation wherein each state wins in an equal amount of $50 million, with each having to wire transfer that amount to the other, all while billing the AAC for a total of about $50 in bank wire transfer charges.

Maryland will then move to the B1G, UL will move to the ACC, the UC administration will cry, and Father Graham will be blamed for it all.

[paulxu]

UL will move to the ACC,

You better hope so, or there'll be a class 5 meltdown in Wichita.

[BMoreX]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677441/massachusetts-minutemen-reach-agreement-leave-mid-america-conference-2015-season-per-sources

UMASS leaving the MAC in football in 2 years but want to remain FBS. Were offered full membership in the MAC but declined.

This should be interesting. Not sure where they'd go. AAC?

[X-band '01]

If UConn ever finds a way to get into the ACC, then UMass is a shoo-in for the American.

Until then, who knows?

[xsteve1]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677441/massachusetts-minutemen-reach-agreement-leave-mid-america-conference-2015-season-per-sources

UMASS leaving the MAC in football in 2 years but want to remain FBS. Were offered full membership in the MAC but declined.

This should be interesting. Not sure where they'd go. AAC?

Can they go to a lower level football league than the MAC and still be FBS? They sure as heck couldn't compete in the MAC.

[bigdiggins]

Can they go to a lower level football league than the MAC and still be FBS? They sure as heck couldn't compete in the MAC.

He said the AAC. :medicated:

[xubrew]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677441/massachusetts-minutemen-reach-agreement-leave-mid-america-conference-2015-season-per-sources

UMASS leaving the MAC in football in 2 years but want to remain FBS. Were offered full membership in the MAC but declined.

This should be interesting. Not sure where they'd go. AAC?

They'll probably just be an independent

[bobbiemcgee]

They'll probably just be an independent

That would be disastrous. Look at NMSU and Idaho. Don't think UConn would want them in AAC. Hopefully, they have a plan.

[xubrew]

That would be disastrous. Look at NMSU and Idaho. Don't think UConn would want them in AAC. Hopefully, they have a plan.

I don't think it's that big of a disaster. Idaho and New Mexico State were disasters when they were in a conference. They'd just have to put together a twelve game schedule every year, and work out their own TV deal to get some money, and......okay, yeah, that would be pretty hard to do.

It's Boston College UConn can't stand. I think they'd be completely fine with UMass joining the American.

[throwbackmuskie]

If UMASS and UCONN were smart, they would drop their FB programs back to FCS and then join the BE in all other sports. UMASS football is not going to ever be good in FBS and will bleed too much money, they play their "home" football games 90 miles away from campus. As for UCONN, they are stuck, and I think their FB program is losing money, I know thye lost $1.8M of the Fiesta Bowl.

[Juice]

If UMASS and UCONN were smart, they would drop their FB programs back to FCS and then join the BE in all other sports. UMASS football is not going to ever be good in FBS and will bleed too much money, they play their "home" football games 90 miles away from campus. As for UCONN, they are stuck, and I think their FB program is losing money, I know thye lost $1.8M of the Fiesta Bowl.

With UMass I agree. But football at UConn is more entrenched and their one shot at being in the ACC. They've also poured all kinds of money into the football facilities in the last decade.

[throwbackmuskie]

With UMass I agree. But football at UConn is more entrenched and their one shot at being in the ACC. They've also poured all kinds of money into the football facilities in the last decade.

True, but I really wonder if they are getting a ROI at all. They are much like UC, throwing money at something that is a pipedream at best right now, and may always be.

[xudash]

True, but I really wonder if they are getting a ROI at all. They are much like UC, throwing money at something that is a pipedream at best right now, and may always be.

It's anecdotal, but recall that UCONN LOST MONEY on its BCS Bowl experience; it never met it's seat allotment. The school had to soak-up those seats when its fans otherwise elected not to make the trip.

It is perfectly logical to believe that UCONN wants to make football work at the highest level, given its stadium investment, etc., but it still has to work within reason on an annual budget basis as well. State budgets are under pressure. Public universities are under budgetary pressure. IF UCONN can't get a workable conference solution for its program beyond the AAC, which will take an additional hit now with UL leaving it, there is no guarantee that UCONN can or will maintain a D1A football program.

I suspect they'll find a way to keep it. The point is that I do believe it's safe to believe that maintaining what they have is not an absolute for them.

The Big East Presidents are being patient for a reason. If not UCONN specifically, part of their reason probably is about them expecting another major shift in football realignment in the next 3 years. I don't know what would start that, as things may be settled now for a while, especially given that football can now operate within its new playoff structure without making any further changes. I still believe it gets back to needing for Texas to get uppity about something before further change will take place; change, should it occur, seems most likely to come from actions taken by the Big12 or key members of it.

[xubrew]

UConn would much rather be in the AAC with football than be in the current Big East without it.

Everyone always talks about how they lost a million bucks the year they went to the Fiesta Bowl. That's actually typical. All schools lose money on bowl games. The only people that make money are the bowls themselves, which is why it is so amazing we continue to play them. Dan Wetzel pointed out how Alabama lost over a million the year they won the national title in the Rose Bowl. Like all bowls, the payout didn't come close to covering the expense.

With the Fiesta Bowl, like a lot of other bowls, the tickets are part of the payout. They'll give a school 10,000 tickets and say that if they sell them at $100 a piece, that counts for $1 million of their payout. What's crazy is that what the school doesn't sell, they have to buy from the bowl. What they purchase is not deducted from the payout.

Anyway, the fact that UConn lost money by going to the Fiesta Bowl hardly indicates their program is any closer to being shut down than anyone else's. Football doesn't make financial sense at 98% percent of the schools that have it, but they still have it.

[Masterofreality]

If UMASS and UCONN were smart, they would drop their FB programs back to FCS and then join the BE in all other sports. UMASS football is not going to ever be good in FBS and will bleed too much money, they play their "home" football games 90 miles away from campus. As for UCONN, they are stuck, and I think their FB program is losing money, I know thye lost $1.8M of the Fiesta Bowl.

Add SucKS to this discussion....but no Big East. Conference USA with Charlotte would be about perfect.

[throwbackmuskie]

UConn would much rather be in the AAC with football than be in the current Big East without it.

Everyone always talks about how they lost a million bucks the year they went to the Fiesta Bowl. That's actually typical. All schools lose money on bowl games. The only people that make money are the bowls themselves, which is why it is so amazing we continue to play them. Dan Wetzel pointed out how Alabama lost over a million the year they won the national title in the Rose Bowl. Like all bowls, the payout didn't come close to covering the expense.

With the Fiesta Bowl, like a lot of other bowls, the tickets are part of the payout. They'll give a school 10,000 tickets and say that if they sell them at $100 a piece, that counts for $1 million of their payout. What's crazy is that what the school doesn't sell, they have to buy from the bowl. What they purchase is not deducted from the payout.

Anyway, the fact that UConn lost money by going to the Fiesta Bowl hardly indicates their program is any closer to being shut down than anyone else's. Football doesn't make financial sense at 98% percent of the schools that have it, but they still have it.

The "loss" on the bowl game may hurt some, however the TV money and conference money distribution some can afford to "loose" money (ie Bama) but others it hurts a lot more (UCONN). With the amount of money UCONN is spending on fb, at the end of the day if they do not get into the BigXII or ACC(not happening) I would image they are going to have to take a serious look at if they want to keep going as FBS or drop back down. With the new playoff a lot is unknown. Will people still care about lesser bowl games? Will the TV money be there for the Sun Belt schools of the world? A lot of schools are making the jump up, App St, Ga Southern, ect, I am curious to see how many stay up there. As much as I dont want to see it, I think the SEC, Big 10, ACC, Pac 12 and Big XII are going to force the NCAA to create another division. Not so much for those schools benefits, but the Sun Belts, MACs and WACs of the world.

[xudash]

UConn would much rather be in the AAC with football than be in the current Big East without it.

Everyone always talks about how they lost a million bucks the year they went to the Fiesta Bowl. That's actually typical. All schools lose money on bowl games. The only people that make money are the bowls themselves, which is why it is so amazing we continue to play them. Dan Wetzel pointed out how Alabama lost over a million the year they won the national title in the Rose Bowl. Like all bowls, the payout didn't come close to covering the expense.

With the Fiesta Bowl, like a lot of other bowls, the tickets are part of the payout. They'll give a school 10,000 tickets and say that if they sell them at $100 a piece, that counts for $1 million of their payout. What's crazy is that what the school doesn't sell, they have to buy from the bowl. What they purchase is not deducted from the payout.

Anyway, the fact that UConn lost money by going to the Fiesta Bowl hardly indicates their program is any closer to being shut down than anyone else's. Football doesn't make financial sense at 98% percent of the schools that have it, but they still have it.

Help me understand your math here. So a BCS Bowl payout roughly was what? $14 million? The Alabama's and Ohio State's of the world would sellout their seat allotments within a few days. Tops. They never bought back tickets for BCS Bowls. Respecting that those payouts were partially distributable to a given participant's conference, I can't imagine, without cooking the accounting, that the bluebloods of the sport ever lose money on the major bowls. It simply doesn't make sense.

Just cooking up some rough, b/s numbers here:

Flights - 100 travelling on charter; roundtrip = $250,000 (coaching staff, team, AD and select admins.)

Hotel - 100 x 7 days x $250 per day = $175,000 (obviously overstated both with respect to rate and not reflecting double occupancy for team members).

Meals - 100 x 3 x 7 x $25 per meal average = $52,500

Charter Buses For Local Travel - 3 Buses x 7 days x $2,500 per bus per day = $52,500

Security (?) - 7 days at $10,000 per day = $70,000 (probably a tad high, if even required to be funded directly by the school).

That's $600k. So now take that "times 2" so that your band can march in the New Years Day Parade and play at half-time: $1,200,000.

On a $10 million+ payout, losing money on a BCS Bowl for one of the titans of the game must be total non-sense. Losing $1 million on such a bowl strikes me as being insulting to my intelligence.

[GoMuskies]

Alabama would have to split its BCS money 14 ways.

[xudash]

Alabama would have to split its BCS money 14 ways.

Do you know that for a fact? That type of policy means that a conference's most successful programs are absolutely subsidizing its other programs. TV money is one thing, but to not be able to cover participatory expenses for these major bowls seems rough.

I would think a major bowl distribution would be post expense coverage for the participating institution. Allow the participating institution to cover its bowl expenses, then distribute the balance.

Then again, given how schools account for athletic programs, I wouldn't be surprised if the participating school had to split the entire amount PLUS send a $100,000 check to each conference mate for BOWL HOSTING EXPENSES FOR COLLEAGUES.

[throwbackmuskie]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about how the SEC schools split bowl revenue (as there always is this time of year). Here's how it works:

*For bowl games with receipts <$1.5M, the participating school retains $925k plus travel expenses; the remainder is remitted to the SEC.

*For bowl games with receipts of $1.5M or more, but <$4M, the participating school retains $1.125M plus travel expenses; the remainder is remitted to the SEC.

*For bowl games with receipts of $4M or more, <$6M, the participating school retains $1.325M plus travel expenses; the remainder is remitted to the SEC.

*For bowl games with receipts of >$6M, the participating school retains $1.825M ($1.925M if it's the MNC); the remainder is remitted to the SEC.

All of the money that is remitted to the SEC above is pooled; the SEC and each member school get 1/13 of the pool.

See Section 31.21.1 of the below link for full details.

stole this from another site

[xubrew]

Alabama would have to split its BCS money 14 ways.


Do you know that for a fact? That type of policy means that a conference's most successful programs are absolutely subsidizing its other programs. TV money is one thing, but to not be able to cover participatory expenses for these major bowls seems rough.

I would think a major bowl distribution would be post expense coverage for the participating institution. Allow the participating institution to cover its bowl expenses, then distribute the balance.

Then again, given how schools account for athletic programs, I wouldn't be surprised if the participating school had to split the entire amount PLUS send a $100,000 check to each conference mate for BOWL HOSTING EXPENSES FOR COLLEAGUES.

Dash, just so we're clear, I'm quoting Dan Wetzel's book. It was outlined how virtually every school, even Alabama who won the national title, lost a ton of money playing in bowl games. The SEC does share the $17 million, and the teams going to bowls get a bigger share than those that aren't. But the, reason they get a bigger share is to help pay their expenses, and that isn't even enough.

I can't find the exact breakdown of Alabama, but will try and find it later. But.....

-Virginia Tech lost over $2 million when they went to the Orange Bowl. That's actually more than what UConn lost. They spent over 3.8 million on transportation for the band, cheerleaders, others in the travel party (ie Athletic Dept employees), meals for all the players, band, cheerleaders and travel party, entertainment expenses (that the Orange Bowl, and most bowls do not pay for, but consider to be part of being there), awards (ie trophies, medels and t-shorts for participants that the bowl "gives out," but ultimately charges the schools for), tickets (that's been covered), and equipment (to be honest, I'm not really sure what that is, but I think they charge the school a fee for using the bowl's logo on their uniforms and merchandise. Anyway, it is on the expense account).

Ultimately, they made $1.6 million, but spent $3.8 million.

Florida lost a ton of money two years ago when they played against Louisville in the Sugar Bowl. It was "about three or four million." That's what I was told by people who work at Florida, so I guess I believe them, but cannot verify it to be true.

I've managed to completely derail this thread, but bowl games are basically chop shops. EVERYONE loses money. So, the fact that UConn lost a fortune doesn't mean their program is in dire straights. It may be in dire straights for other reasons, but not because of that. I still think that (for whatever reason) UConn likes having FBS football and has no intention of reevaluating anything. They'll cut other sports before they cut football if it ends up being a large expense. Overall, their athletic department is pretty well sustained. I'm quite certain that they have no plans at all to get rid of it or downgrade it....even if they should.

[GoMuskies]

Cmon AM...We need the dominoes to fall if we ever want to get out of the A10


This might be an off-the-wall proposition but...
Could this potential move by A&M also affect TCU's decision to move to the Big East? Considering their recent success on the gridiron, they could be a logical replacement for A&M in the Big 12 or partner with the Aggies in moving to the SEC. Either of those moves would be infinitely better for TCU in so many ways.

In order for something like this to happen, the chips would have to fall almost immediately.

Posts #7 and #9 of this thread back in 2011. Well done!

[xudash]

4x 16:

The following was published in our paper yesterday - - Gene Frenette is a very balanced sportswriter:

http://jacksonville.com/sports/columnists/gene-frenette/2014-06-03/story/gene-frenette-slive-sec-can-make-life-tough-ncaa

It’s not that the SEC wants to totally separate itself from the NCAA, it just wants to control the business of football. Ultimately, that’s going to happen in ways bigger than just the four-team playoff that kicks off next season.

I believe Slive’s salvo at the SEC spring meetings is a precursor to this eventual bombshell: four 16-team super conferences, with the championship game of each league being a de facto national quarterfinal. In effect, it’s an 8-team playoff that could begin once the next Big Ten television contract starts in 2017-18.

Anyone who thinks conference realignment has settled down is naïve about where the money train is headed. The SEC, Big Ten and Pac-12 represents a three-headed monster, and it’s a question of whether the Big 12 or ACC gets cherry-picked more to become that fourth wheel.

We’ve already seen the eyes of the Big Three flirting in varying degrees with Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. So how long before the SEC or Big Ten start courting a North Carolina/Duke combo or maybe the Miami television market to fill a 16-team dance card?

No matter what ACC commissioner John Swofford thinks, his league isn’t entirely safe from this game of musical chairs. The ACC has only four schools with the resources to be consistently competitive in football (FSU, Miami, Clemson and Virginia Tech), and none of them have much cache in basketball.

Rest assured, a lot of athletic directors in the ACC and Big 12 are nervous about being left behind in the next round of conference shakeups.

At some point, the Big Ten, SEC or Pac-12 is going to expand again, and it’s pretty obvious which schools make the most attractive targets. That’s why Slive is making his pitch now for autonomy from the have-not leagues.

IMHO, all of this, the entirety of it (4 x 16) is simply too logical and too elegant a solution to pass up. I'm using "elegant" here in the sense of the symmetry it provides: 4 by 16 with each 16 providing 2 divisions of 8. He's absolutely right to state what is obvious: it offers up a de facto 8 team play-off, with the championship of each league being a de facto national quarterfinal. This has nothing to do with dominance by one conference at this point, especially if all 4 go to 16 to balance out some of the strength across the board.

So, if I'm in the ACC or Big XII, IT AIN'T OVER YET.

If I'm a Univ. of Cincinnati Board of Trustee Member, what on God's green earth allowed me to get talked into signing off on a stadium renovation for Nippert?

UCONN? Damn.

And it is about football.

I believe Xavier basketball will be fine long-term in all this.

It is the summertime, right?

[waggy]

I don't think a left behind, water-downed ACC is necessarily a good thing as far as the BE is concerned. They have a TV contract that will always make them at least #5 in the pecking order. They also have ND. And the writer fails to mention Louisville as a possible player in FB. I could see the ACC looking to cherry-pick the BE. I couple million here or there would be easy to find.

[muskienick]

I believe "Division 4" is inevitable mainly because of football. But once those four 16-member Conferences are formed, that doesn't necessarily mean the end to March Madness as we've known it now for decades. There are simply too many relevant basketball "factories" that would exist outside Division 4 Conferences for fans to allow that to happen.
Here's how I see things developing over the next few years:
1449

Sorry, I saved the *^#& file in landscape but it somehow was rotated to portrait!

[xudash]

I believe "Division 4" is inevitable mainly because of football. But once those four 16-member Conferences are formed, that doesn't necessarily mean the end to March Madness as we've known it now for decades. There are simply too many relevant basketball "factories" that would exist outside Division 4 Conferences for fans to allow that to happen.
Here's how I see things developing over the next few years:
1449

Sorry, I saved the *^#& file in landscape but it somehow was rotated to portrait!

Nick,

I believe the NCAA BAsketball Tournament will be fine and that Xavier and the Big East will perform well within it should this transformation take place.

I like your analysis. I can't see ND being allowed to operate independently in this format, and can really only see them becoming a B1G member. Then again, to your point, Boston College certainly has to hope that Notre Dame finds a way to retain its independence!

Waggy, that ACC television contract evaporates with this reset. The survivors of the ACC and Big12 will come together to form the 4th conference anyway, so a new and probably more lucrative television agreement would be put in place for them.

With that done, there will sit the Big East with its brand, MSG agreement, New York HQ, great markets, etc., waiting to cherry pick the best available additions possible. And no one should worry about the Big East being used by football schools at that point as a layover stop, because there would be nothing left to layover about.

IMHO, this is why the Presidents are holding at 10 for now.

[throwbackmuskie]

I believe "Division 4" is inevitable mainly because of football. But once those four 16-member Conferences are formed, that doesn't necessarily mean the end to March Madness as we've known it now for decades. There are simply too many relevant basketball "factories" that would exist outside Division 4 Conferences for fans to allow that to happen.
Here's how I see things developing over the next few years:
1449

Sorry, I saved the *^#& file in landscape but it somehow was rotated to portrait!

Main issue I have with your alignement is FSU. They will not be in the SEC. If anything it will be UNC and UVA or NcSt/VT.

SEC will not expand into a state they are already in.

[MHettel]

Main issue I have with your alignement is FSU. They will not be in the SEC. If anything it will be UNC and UVA or NcSt/VT.

SEC will not expand into a state they are already in.

Agree. Big 10 will covet FSU to establish some recruting inroads to the deep Florida recruiting base. They CANNOT let the SEC lock down Florida.

Also, I think the PAC 12 could surprise by taking TX, OK, OK St, and a school currently NOT in a Big 5 conference (BYU for instance). kansas only makes sense for the PAC 12 becasue it allows for the rest of the changes to fall into place. They wont care about that.

All in all, I see BC, Wake and Duke all being left out, so at least one other team that is not currently in the Big 5 would get added (in addition to BYU).

[throwbackmuskie]

Agree. Big 10 will covet FSU to establish some recruting inroads to the deep Florida recruiting base. They CANNOT let the SEC lock down Florida.

Also, I think the PAC 12 could surprise by taking TX, OK, OK St, and a school currently NOT in a Big 5 conference (BYU for instance). kansas only makes sense for the PAC 12 becasue it allows for the rest of the changes to fall into place. They wont care about that.

All in all, I see BC, Wake and Duke all being left out, so at least one other team that is not currently in the Big 5 would get added (in addition to BYU).

SEC pretty muc h has Florida on lockdown as it is. Also the B10 can not take FSU unless the rewrite their league by laws. All schools states much share a boarder with at least one state. That is why MD and Rutgers were added over the likes of UCONN. Also from my understand UVA and UNC are a package deal. I also don't see Duke and UNC splitting up. At this point I see the SEC/ACC/PAC12/Big10 all stadning pat, with ND's deal with the ACC not chaning a thing. I think the Big 12 could look to get 12, Houston and BYU? Then break off. UCONN and UC being left out. That puts you at 67 teams.

[Juice]

SEC pretty muc h has Florida on lockdown as it is. Also the B10 can not take FSU unless the rewrite their league by laws. All schools states much share a boarder with at least one state. That is why MD and Rutgers were added over the likes of UCONN. Also from my understand UVA and UNC are a package deal. I also don't see Duke and UNC splitting up. At this point I see the SEC/ACC/PAC12/Big10 all stadning pat, with ND's deal with the ACC not chaning a thing. I think the Big 12 could look to get 12, Houston and BYU? Then break off. UCONN and UC being left out. That puts you at 67 teams.

I think the other problem with FSU and the Big Ten is that FSU doesn't match with the Big Ten's "academic standards."

[X-band '01]

SEC pretty muc h has Florida on lockdown as it is. Also the B10 can not take FSU unless the rewrite their league by laws. All schools states much share a boarder with at least one state. That is why MD and Rutgers were added over the likes of UCONN. Also from my understand UVA and UNC are a package deal. I also don't see Duke and UNC splitting up. At this point I see the SEC/ACC/PAC12/Big10 all stadning pat, with ND's deal with the ACC not chaning a thing. I think the Big 12 could look to get 12, Houston and BYU? Then break off. UCONN and UC being left out. That puts you at 67 teams.

Georgia Tech was also thrown out as a Big 10 candidate. Their academics would certainly be attractive to the Big 10 (along with the Atlanta TV market). If they had a better football and basketball program, they'd be a no-brainer.

As for the borders, I'm sure the Big 10 would edit such a bylaw for the right program.

[SM#24]

In actual conference re-alignment news, Binghamton & Hartford are joining the Big Sky for men's golf only. I shit you not.

[muskienick]

In actual conference re-alignment news, Binghamton & Hartford are joining the Big Sky for men's golf only. I shit you not.

I demand an improperly posted (tilted on edge) jpeg version of an Excel file showing all the possible ramifications of this startling news. I shit you not!

[dnnrobert]

SEC pretty muc h has Florida on lockdown as it is. Also the B10 can not take FSU unless the rewrite their league by laws. All schools states much share a boarder with at least one state. That is why MD and Rutgers were added over the likes of UCONN. Also from my understand UVA and UNC are a package deal. I also don't see Duke and UNC splitting up. At this point I see the SEC/ACC/PAC12/Big10 all stadning pat, with ND's deal with the ACC not chaning a thing. I think the Big 12 could look to get 12, Houston and BYU? Then break off. UCONN and UC being left out. That puts you at 67 teams.

Why would the Big 12 take Houston? They already have 4 superior programs in the state of Texas. If Big 12 goes to 12, BYU and UC are the most likely candidates. That is pretty much the consensus opinion out there, although conference realignment has been unpredictable in the past.

In the unlikely event Duke gets left out of a 4x16 super conference realignment, I have to think the Big East would make a run at them. In that scenario, perhaps they would also get a shot at Notre Dame if they are able to keep their football independence and the ACC desolves. Duke's football program has made a lot of progress though, and there's too much history with UNC for that to happen IMO.

[throwbackmuskie]

Houston has a lot of ties to the swc schools and they are a big school with deep pockets. I don't see uc getting picked up. Just my opinion


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

Speaking of football and deep pockets. I guess if you are Kentucky, and don't play such good football, then you pay your BB coach $7 million/year.
That's a lot of dinero. Got to be the highest paid employee in the state. Up there in K country now.

But $7 million? At a state school?

[GoMuskies]

Got to be the highest paid employee in the state.

I'm not positive that moves him ahead of Pitino.

[waggy]

An article I read yesterday said it made him #2 behind K.

Whatever the case it's amazing money.

[GoMuskies]

It makes sense that UK would not sign Calipari to an extension that would have him paid less than Louisville's coach. Pitino will probably have his contract amended later today to pay him $7,000,000.01 per year.

[nuts4xu]

Coach K made over $9 million this year. Tough to see many schools top that kind of coin.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

[xudash]

SEC pretty muc h has Florida on lockdown as it is. Also the B10 can not take FSU unless the rewrite their league by laws. All schools states much share a boarder with at least one state. That is why MD and Rutgers were added over the likes of UCONN. Also from my understand UVA and UNC are a package deal. I also don't see Duke and UNC splitting up. At this point I see the SEC/ACC/PAC12/Big10 all stadning pat, with ND's deal with the ACC not chaning a thing. I think the Big 12 could look to get 12, Houston and BYU? Then break off. UCONN and UC being left out. That puts you at 67 teams.

throw, the whole point is to get to a balanced number. With each conference of 4 having 2 eight team divisions, you essentially end up with the initial play-off round at the conference level through each conference's championship game.

If they do this thing, it will be to go to 64 teams: 4 x16. Otherwise, perhaps it could be 65: 4 x 16 and ND, though i can't imagine the benchmarks they'll put into place for the Irish to hit in order to have a chance at one of the 4 play-off spots.

[throwbackmuskie]

throw, the whole point is to get to a balanced number. With each conference of 4 having 2 eight team divisions, you essentially end up with the initial play-off round at the conference level through each conference's championship game.

If they do this thing, it will be to go to 64 teams: 4 x16. Otherwise, perhaps it could be 65: 4 x 16 and ND, though i can't imagine the benchmarks they'll put into place for the Irish to hit in order to have a chance at one of the 4 play-off spots.

I get what you are saying, but I think the 64 number is more of a fan/media number rather than a conference objective.

[Juice]

Coach K made over $9 million this year. Tough to see many schools top that kind of coin.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/

"How can we afford to pay the players?!?!"

[MADXSTER]

I get what you are saying, but I think the 64 number is more of a fan/media number rather than a conference objective.

Not if the intention is to break away from the NCAA and have their own tournament.

[MADXSTER]

"How can we afford to pay the players?!?!"

There are approx 360 D-1 schools. It's not apples to apples.

[throwbackmuskie]

Not if the intention is to break away from the NCAA and have their own tournament.

Again why does 64 matter? It doesn't. they will do a 16 team tournament.

[xudash]

Not if the intention is to break away from the NCAA and have their own tournament.

They hurt themselves if they break away. When you read source commentary from them, it's always about solving for football. I believe it is safe to assume you can take those comments at full faith.

[GoMuskies]

Maryland and the ACC settled for $31,361,788. Does this finally close the book on this particular era of realignment?

[xudash]

Maryland and the ACC settled for $31,361,788. Does this finally close the book on this particular era of realignment?

IMHO, it has.

This formally closes this phase of it, though it's been closed as a practical matter for a while.

Status:

BIG = 14
SEC = 14
ACC = 14
P12 = 12
B12 = 10

Total = 64

Total with ND = 65

Looks like game, set, match to me. Even if they went to 4 x 16, one of the existing members of the club would have to be booted.

Otherwise, if you're an AD at one of the AAC schools, you will earn every dollar of your salary as you otherwise try to figure this thing out from here.

I also really doubt that the Big East will expand beyond 10. LESS IS MORE when it comes to the basketball side of things. I believe this will be the case as the Fox Sports empire builds and as the Big East conference otherwise grows to a level of performance that finds it putting no less than 4 to 5 teams into the Tournament every year, with runs coming from a couple teams every year.

There are simply no expansion candidates that make sense at this time, assuming such candidates do not include certain members of the AAC.

[xudash]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2014/08/08/no-power-5-doom-and-gloom-yet-from-tuberville/13777399/

Good night, UC.

[paulxu]

I admit to being an outlier with this set up.
I would much prefer to see 4 conferences, whose conference champion gets into the playoffs.
5 conferences means computers, rankings, eye tests and all kinds of BS.
Just set it up right. Or else they'll be all sorts of bitching when 2 SEC teams are in the 4 team playoff.

[STL_XUfan]

Put me in the far-from-over camp. I'm just curious of where the next seismic shift will come from.

[JTG]

I admit to being an outlier with this set up.
I would much prefer to see 4 conferences, whose conference champion gets into the playoffs.
5 conferences means computers, rankings, eye tests and all kinds of BS.
Just set it up right. Or else they'll be all sorts of bitching when 2 SEC teams are in the 4 team playoff.
There are probable 3 schools in the SEC who are better than anyome in the BIG or the ACC. Why give them a playoff spot just to make it simple.

[BMoreX]

Why not bring this thread back from the grave now that the Big 12 lost out on a spot in the College Football Playoff.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-12-08/college-football-playoff-big-12-expansion-champions-bob-bowlsby-cincinnati-memphis-byu

[GoMuskies]

Bring back Jimmy2X!

[SM#24]

NJIT to Atlantic Sun

[GoMuskies]

NJIT to Atlantic Sun

That's fantastic news for NJIT.

[SM#24]

No more indies; NJIT is pretty much a geographical outlier though in the ASun

[X-band '01]

No more indies; NJIT is pretty much a geographical outlier though in the ASun

You obviously don't remember their days in the Great West Conference (the one without an automatic bid).

[SM#24]

Oh, I totally remember the Great West. I was surprised the ASun took them on. But I guess the lucrative Newark TV market will be a boon for all the ASun members. Probably taking their TV revenue from $20/team to $21.

[Cheesehead]

Oh, I totally remember the Great West. I was surprised the ASun took them on. But I guess the lucrative Newark TV market will be a boon for all the ASun members. Probably taking their TV revenue from $20/team to $21.

I believe the revenue is actually $25.00

[Cheesehead]

Oh, I totally remember the Great West. I was surprised the ASun took them on. But I guess the lucrative Newark TV market will be a boon for all the ASun members. Probably taking their TV revenue from $20/team to $21.

I believe the revenue is actually $25.00

[xudash]

No more indies; NJIT is pretty much a geographical outlier though in the ASun

This was about the carousel twitching more than spinning.

Assuming the Big 12 doesn't move off 10 members, we may be locked in for a while. That will be devastating to UC, UCONN, and BYU, in particular.

I should have referenced the more complete article about all this in that other thread, but here it is:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/texas-longhorns-aggies-missouri-tigers-sec-big-12-pac-12-realignment-chaos-061115

[Masterofreality]

Newark..............Sun

One of these things is not like the other.

[X-band '01]

Newark..............Smog

One of these things is not like the other.

I beg to differ.

[xudash]

ESPN scroll this evening reporting that Big XII Commish said that the conference is fine at 10, but the OU President stated that he thought the conference should increase to 12.

The bottomline appears to be, assuming that Bowlsby is UT's mouthpiece, that the Big XII is sticking at 10.

And yet UC appears to be moving forward with the 5/3 renovation, is already dumping millions into Nippert, and is talking a big game with "stipends."

The AAC is a juggernaut that we, or at least I don't understand.

[GoMuskies]

The AAC is a good league. There's nothing preventing a school from having a powerhouse basketball program in the AAC. Football is going to awfully, awfully tough, though. If you're winning all the time and taking the access spot in the major bowls consistently, you might be able to have a successful program. But Boise State already exists.

[waggy]

Doesn't the AAC own a trillion dollars in left behind tournament credits?

[xudash]

The AAC is a good league. There's nothing preventing a school from having a powerhouse basketball program in the AAC. Football is going to awfully, awfully tough, though. If you're winning all the time and taking the access spot in the major bowls consistently, you might be able to have a successful program. But Boise State already exists.

Fair point about the basketball side of it.

[xudash]

Doesn't the AAC own a trillion dollars in left behind tournament credits?

Good point about their accrued units. The problem is that they're running off and are probably needed for normal operating expenses.

My focus was more on the level of capital expenditures UC is pursuing in the absence of having anything that remotely looks like a clear path to a P5 conference.

[waggy]

The credits are paid out over a period of 6 or 7 years I think. It won't run a football program for any length of time, but it's not a small amount of money either. Are UConn and UC the only two teams left?

[GoMuskies]

South Florida is also still there.

[X-band '01]

Doesn't the AAC own a trillion dollars in left behind tournament credits?


Good point about their accrued units. The problem is that they're running off and are probably needed for normal operating expenses.

My focus was more on the level of capital expenditures UC is pursuing in the absence of having anything that remotely looks like a clear path to a P5 conference.

This has led to speculation on Holy Land of Hoops in the past that UConn may consider rejoining the Big East once those credits expire. I don't see any public university w/ football joining the conference anytime soon.

[Juice]

This has led to speculation on Holy Land of Hoops in the past that UConn may consider rejoining the Big East once those credits expire. I don't see any public university w/ football joining the conference anytime soon.

I like those guys but I feel like their view point is way too pro-BE to the point of some of their ideas and views being unrealistic.

[XU '11]

This has led to speculation on Holy Land of Hoops in the past that UConn may consider rejoining the Big East once those credits expire. I don't see any public university w/ football joining the conference anytime soon.

I always thought that speculation was paired with UConn dropping football.

[GoMuskies]

I always thought that speculation was paired with UConn dropping football.

Which is impossible for a number of years. They didn't build that stadium in East Hartford 15 years ago (nice place to see a game, by the way) so that they could drop football now. Maybe in another decade if things are still going poorly for them and they are bleeding money trying to run a football program.

[XUFan09]

I like those guys but I feel like their view point is way too pro-BE to the point of some of their ideas and views being unrealistic.

And anyone that disagrees with that slant is a "hater" or a "troll." You know, instead of just someone who isn't drinking the Kool-aid.

[casualfan]

And anyone that disagrees with that slant is a "hater" or a "troll." You know, instead of just someone who isn't drinking the Kool-aid.

That's most message boards though. Hell, if I had a dollar for every time I was called a troll on this board i'd be eating lunch free today :biggrin:

[waggy]

That's most message boards though. Hell, if I had a dollar for every time I was called a troll on this board i'd be eating lunch free today :biggrin:


Yeah anyone can see that X's desire not to play Dayton is hate based.

[casualfan]

Yeah anyone can see that X's desire not to play Dayton is hate based.

huh?

[waggy]

huh?

You can't remember what you post one day to the next?

http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?30012-Orlando-Classic&p=509648&viewfull=1#post509648

[casualfan]

You can't remember what you post one day to the next?

http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?30012-Orlando-Classic&p=509648&viewfull=1#post509648

No, i don't have any earthly idea what that has to do with what i posted above?

[xubrew]

What is UC's plan for funding the renovations?? They're not paying for all of that themselves. If they have a plan to raise the money, then they should do it whether the Big Twelve wants them or not.

[xudash]

What is UC's plan for funding the renovations?? They're not paying for all of that themselves. If they have a plan to raise the money, then they should do it whether the Big Twelve wants them or not.

Great question. They already had to have soaked up a lot of private donation money on the Nippert Deal. This is a big renovation with a big price tag. They do have the capacity to pop in a "student fee" to help with it, perhaps, but that wouldn't begin to cover the number they've thrown out.

[xubrew]

How much is 5/3rd Bank forking over?

[xudash]

How much is 5/3rd Bank forking over?

I haven't seen any reporting on the breakdown of where funding would come from.

I'm not even sure about whether or not 5/3 intends to retain the naming rights to the place, though it wouldn't surprise me that they want them moving forward.

[casualfan]

I haven't seen any reporting on the breakdown of where funding would come from.

I'm not even sure about whether or not 5/3 intends to retain the naming rights to the place, though it wouldn't surprise me that they want them moving forward.

My buddy claims they are funding it like the football stadium with 100% coming from private donations.

I know one of the articles when it first came out said they already have $15-$20 mil committed from the silent fundraising they did before the announcement.

[xudash]

My buddy claims they are funding it like the football stadium with 100% coming from private donations.

I know one of the articles when it first came out said they already have $15-$20 mil committed from the silent fundraising they did before the announcement.

That's the only way it makes sense.

UC grads are allowed to have pride in their school, too.

I just hope for them that they're not committing all this money believing that it will position UC better for a P5 invite. It will have the effect of positioning UC better for such an occurrence, but the problem is that the opportunity doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon, assuming the Big XII does stay at 10. If that conference is locking in at 10 members for now, you'd have to think that realignment activity has now slowed to nothing.

[casualfan]

That's the only way it makes sense.

UC grads are allowed to have pride in their school, too.

I just hope for them that they're not committing all this money believing that it will position UC better for a P5 invite. It will have the effect of positioning UC better for such an occurrence, but the problem is that the opportunity doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon, assuming the Big XII does stay at 10. If that conference is locking in at 10 members for now, you'd have to think that realignment activity has now slowed to nothing.

I think it's probably a case of trying to kill two birds with one stone.

Both those facilities badly needed upgrades. I go to the high school games at Nipper every year and it's really a cool stadium, but it needed to be updated from a concourse, restrooms, and concessions standpoint. And unless I'm mistaken, prior to the reno they didn't have any premium seating which has become a huge revenue generator in football these days.

On the basketball side it has probably been 5 years since I've been in 5/3, but even then it badly needed an upgrade.

So at the end of the day helping with a P5 invite is likely more of an ancillary benefit than the driving force behind the upgrades IMHO.

[blueblob06]

I'm sure they'll get plenty of revenue to cover it with another $99 season ticket promotion, right??

Actually, the football season ticket prices at UC went up some crazy amount this year, at least where my friends sit. Not sure how that will work out for them or how raising hoops ticket prices would work for UC hoops...probably not well.

[casualfan]

I'm sure they'll get plenty of revenue to cover it with another $99 season ticket promotion, right??

Actually, the football season ticket prices at UC went up some crazy amount this year, at least where my friends sit. Not sure how that will work out for them or how raising hoops ticket prices would work for UC hoops...probably not well.

They were only 4 spots behind us in basketball attendance this past year playing a shit schedule in a shit arena. I think they'll be ok.

[XU 87]

They were only 4 spots behind us in basketball attendance this past year playing a shit schedule in a shit arena. I think they'll be ok.

Maybe so, but a UC buddy of mine who is also a season ticket holder and appears to knows what's going on over there told me a few years ago that basketball was losing money and that attendance figures were inflated. In fact, he told me that there was consideration of firing Cronin at that time, but they didn't have the money to pay his contract and pay another contract to the new coach.

Things could have changed in the last few years, and I think attendance has increased, but I'm not so sure basketball is on sound financial footing.

[casualfan]

Maybe so, but a UC buddy of mine who is also a season ticket holder and appears to knows what's going on over there told me a few years ago that basketball was losing money and that attendance figures were inflated. In fact, he told me that there was consideration of firing Cronin at that time, but they didn't have the money to pay his contract and pay another contract to the new coach.

Things could have changed in the last few years, and I think attendance has increased, but I'm not so sure basketball is on sound financial footing.

What is a few years? They've been to the tourney 5 straight years. I can't imagine they were considering canning him any time during that stretch.

[XU 87]

What is a few years? They've been to the tourney 5 straight years. I can't imagine they were considering canning him any time during that stretch.

Few = about 5-6 years ago.

If they were inflating attendance back then, why wouldn't they be inflating attendance currently?

UC attendance in 08-09 was about the same as last year- about 8500 per game. 12-13 was actually less- about 8000 per game.

So assuming they were losing money in 08-09, I see no reason to believe they are now financially sound currently, based on those figures and assuming my buddy was correct.

[xubrew]

I think the college football landscape is going to change sooner or later, and probably sooner. In ten years, there will most likely be at least eight playoff teams, and maybe as many as twelve or sixteen. The selection committee already ranks 25 teams, so they're in a position to increase the playoff system without actually doing anything any differently. Maybe the Big Twelve door won't be open, but the playoff door likely will be. So, go ahead and upgrade, especially if they're able to raise the money. I'm mainly curious as to how they plan on doing that, because there is no way in hell they're paying for all that themselves, or with student fees, or with tax dollars. That will, at most, only cover a small percentage of it.

[casualfan]

Few = about 5-6 years ago.

If they were inflating attendance back then, why wouldn't they be inflating attendance currently?

UC attendance in 08-09 was about the same as last year- about 8500 per game. 12-13 was actually less- about 8000 per game.

So assuming they were losing money in 08-09, I see no reason to believe they are now financially sound currently, based on those figures and assuming my buddy was correct.

So they were considering firing him before they ripped off 5 straight tourney appearances. What does that have to do with today?

Surely you're not suggesting he's still on thin ice?

Just trying to figure out why you brought up that he might be on thin ice from 5 years ago?

[casualfan]

I think the college football landscape is going to change sooner or later, and probably sooner. In ten years, there will most likely be at least eight playoff teams, and maybe as many as twelve or sixteen. The selection committee already ranks 25 teams, so they're in a position to increase the playoff system without actually doing anything any differently. Maybe the Big Twelve door won't be open, but the playoff door likely will be. So, go ahead and upgrade, especially if they're able to raise the money. I'm mainly curious as to how they plan on doing that, because there is no way in hell they're paying for all that themselves, or with student fees, or with tax dollars. That will, at most, only cover a small percentage of it.

The stadium was funded on private donations and commitments from companies to buy the new suites they are putting in. I know the quites require a 10 year commitment because my company looked into one.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/06/25/cincinnati-bearcats-football-nippert-stadium-expansion/2457223/

Here's the relevant portion of the article:

An $86 million expansion of Nippert Stadium is essentially paid for after the University of Cincinnati secured buyers for 18 private suites and hundreds of club seats, plus $10 million in private donations.

Those buyers will provide enough money to pay off the bonds UC will issue to pay for construction, so UC trustees formally launched the project Tuesday.

[muskie coach]

I think the college football landscape is going to change sooner or later, and probably sooner. In ten years, there will most likely be at least eight playoff teams, and maybe as many as twelve or sixteen. The selection committee already ranks 25 teams, so they're in a position to increase the playoff system without actually doing anything any differently. Maybe the Big Twelve door won't be open, but the playoff door likely will be. So, go ahead and upgrade, especially if they're able to raise the money. I'm mainly curious as to how they plan on doing that, because there is no way in hell they're paying for all that themselves, or with student fees, or with tax dollars. That will, at most, only cover a small percentage of it.

I would be very surprised if the playoff is ever more than 8 teams. I don't think the top 15 football powers want too many other teams with access to what they feel is their money.

[casualfan]

I would be very surprised if the playoff is ever more than 8 teams. I don't think the top 15 football powers want too many other teams with access to what they feel is their money.

I think the first move will to 8 and then if it goes to more than that it would be 12 with the top 4 getting a bye.

The problem with going to more than 8 is the number of games it adds. With a lot of leagues already having a championship game you'll hit a point where kids are playing 15 or 16 games a year.

[muskie coach]

I think the first move will to 8 and then if it goes to more than that it would be 12 with the top 4 getting a bye.

The problem with going to more than 8 is the number of games it adds. With a lot of leagues already having a championship game you'll hit a point where kids are playing 15 or 16 games a year.

I agree. I would personally like it to be 8 now and stay that way for a long time.

[xubrew]

The stadium was funded on private donations and commitments from companies to buy the new suites they are putting in. I know the quites require a 10 year commitment because my company looked into one.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/06/25/cincinnati-bearcats-football-nippert-stadium-expansion/2457223/

Here's the relevant portion of the article:

An $86 million expansion of Nippert Stadium is essentially paid for after the University of Cincinnati secured buyers for 18 private suites and hundreds of club seats, plus $10 million in private donations.

Those buyers will provide enough money to pay off the bonds UC will issue to pay for construction, so UC trustees formally launched the project Tuesday.

Thanks.


I would be very surprised if the playoff is ever more than 8 teams. I don't think the top 15 football powers want too many other teams with access to what they feel is their money.

I don't disagree about the top fifteen football powers. I just don't think it's entirely up to them anymore. Amazingly (well, if you were an idiot you were amazed because it was predictable to anyone with any sense), the football playoffs were through the roof and generated more revenue than expected. A bigger playoff would generate even more. If the networks want it, and if the sponsors want it, and if the top fifteen do not want it, but the other 110 FBS programs do, then I think it's happening.

[casualfan]

Brew,

I agree with what you're saying, but they'd have to do something to shorten up the schedule.

If you go to 16 teams you're talking about 4 additional games for the two teams who make the finals. At that point you're talking about teams playing 16 or 17 games which isn't realistic IMHO.

[xubrew]

Brew,

I agree with what you're saying, but they'd have to do something to shorten up the schedule.

If you go to 16 teams you're talking about 4 additional games for the two teams who make the finals. At that point you're talking about teams playing 16 or 17 games which isn't realistic IMHO.

FCS can play as many as sixteen if you play 11 games, enter the playoffs at the round of 24 and then advance all the way to the championship.

div3 plays as many as 15.

Granted, that's still still not as many as 17, but the schools at the lower divisions do play more.

[DoubleD86]

FCS can play as many as sixteen if you play 11 games, enter the playoffs at the round of 24 and then advance all the way to the championship.

div3 plays as many as 15.

Granted, that's still still not as many as 17, but the schools at the lower divisions do play more.

Plus, and I am just spit-balling, but if there are that many teams in the playoff the need for a Conference Championship in the P5 conferences is greatly reduced. You could just give the regular season champion the auto bid and most P5 conferences will have the other division winner in the playoffs in most years.

Now, the biggest reason they were started was for extra money, and maybe I am way off, but with that many teams the importance of the Championship Game would be reduced and therefore the interest would be reduced.

If they decide they want to keep the Championship Game and declare the auto-bid that way, you could always do away with one game at the beginning of the season which would basically mean less P5 teams playing FCS teams.

If they want, they can get to 15-16 somehow. Otherwise, they could play 17 if necessary.

[XU 87]

So they were considering firing him before they ripped off 5 straight tourney appearances. What does that have to do with today?

Surely you're not suggesting he's still on thin ice?

Just trying to figure out why you brought up that he might be on thin ice from 5 years ago?

I said he was on thin ice 5-6 years ago, but due to financial difficulties back then, I was told they couldn't afford to even consider firing him. Since attendance has not increased since that time, I see no reason that the basketball program is currently doing well financially, assuming my friend was correct back then.

I never suggested or implied that currently his job is in jeopardy.

[xubrew]

I don't know when the numbers from 2014-2015 will be available (or to put it more accurately, I don't know when (or if) I'll get around to being able to see them. But, from 13-14 UC actually did lose money on basketball, at least according to their reporting. That is astonishing. They made and spent around $6.5 million, which isn't a lot for what you'd think a program like UC would make and spend, and they actually made slightly less than they spent.

That's odd because almost no one loses money on basketball. It's a very popular sport with very little overhead. Yet, UC somehow did.

[Masterofreality]

I don't know when the numbers from 2014-2015 will be available (or to put it more accurately, I don't know when (or if) I'll get around to being able to see them. But, from 13-14 UC actually did lose money on basketball, at least according to their reporting. That is astonishing. They made and spent around $6.5 million, which isn't a lot for what you'd think a program like UC would make and spend, and they actually made slightly less than they spent.

That's odd because almost no one loses money on basketball. It's a very popular sport with very little overhead. Yet, UC somehow did.

You know how they did that? By overpaying the Yellow Toothed Gnome at over $2 million per year. The same Yellow Toothed Gnome that insists on playing horrible non-conference schedules so that he can build up his win total in front of no paying customers- which in the end , means that they lose money.

[xudash]

You know how they did that? By overpaying the Yellow Toothed Gnome at over $2 million per year. The same Yellow Toothed Gnome that insists on playing horrible non-conference schedules so that he can build up his win total in front of no paying customers- which in the end , means that they lose money.

I actually got curious enough about this to visit UC's Audited financial report for 2014. Please find what, in essence, is their Annual Report for their Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2014 as follows: https://www.uc.edu/content/dam/uc/af/controller/docs/AuditedFinancialReport2014.pdf

Please note the following from their footnotes on Page 43: Auxiliary Enterprise Revenues primarily represent revenues generated by athletics, bookstores, the conference center, dining, housing, and parking.

Now for the P/L (P32):

Net Auxiliary Enterprises (net of scholarship allowances (must be athletic)) $102 million
Auxiliary Enterprises Operating Expenses $ 95 million
"Operating" Income (from this sector) $ 7 million

Without departmental reporting, there is no way from these figures to absolutely determine whether or not UC's Athletic Department is a money maker or loser. However, with that many extra revenue sources thrown in with it, and with a net of "only" $7 million, that department obviously isn't making money hand over fist, assuming it's making anything at all.

One other thing: UC, as part of the AAC, is participating in the run-off of the Big East exit money. As we all know, that funding is recurring for some number of more years, but it is nothing that can be relied upon for the long-term; it will not recur forever. When that strip of funding goes away, things are going to tighten up in Clifton. I can't see any other way of looking at it.

Beyond all this, I'm stuck on believing that there will be no further expansion/conference realignment from here. It simply doesn't make sense at the increment. Just as it doesn't make sense for the Big East to expand by acquiring from what's available out there strictly on the basketball side presently, UC and UCONN don't offer enough, in particular, to any of the P5 conferences. ASSUMING anyone in power is thinking about an 8 team playoff at some point, and that the 4x16 model is a ready-made way to establish that, 65 teams are already in the club for purposes of setting that up. I'm not suggesting that's where it's headed, but I am suggesting that incremental expansion from here seems less likely for a number of reasons, this one among them.

Like some here, I like Nippert and I like its setting. But a 40k capacity stadium coupled with a fickle fanbase is a road to hell when it comes to peacocking for a P5 conference. UC's renovation to Nippert is nice, but it just doesn't offer the scale that is necessary for the bigtime.

If you're stuck in the middle of it - as an administrator in UC's athletic department - looking for a way through to greater stability, I guess you do what you can do and hope for the best. I'm just not clear on what they can hope for at this point. Yet they keep spending a lot of money along the way.

[xudash]

Not much new to report, but found this article interesting:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2016/02/03/what-uc-hiding-big-12-conference/79713442/

[outsideobserver11]

Not much new to report, but found this article interesting:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2016/02/03/what-uc-hiding-big-12-conference/79713442/

The UC president/AD have gone quiet about everything to do with expansion as well recently where as before Ono was constantly dropping little teasers to keep the fans holding onto the hope. It will more than likely amount to nothing, but the higher ups at UC have been trying to keep everything internal these past few weeks regarding the big 12 which coincides with all of the Big 12 rumors with UC/UCONN. Everything seems to indicate that UC feels something is about to happen (Big 12 meetings are this week), but I'm sure it will be nothing more than a loud fart at best.

[Masterofreality]

Not much new to report, but found this article interesting:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2016/02/03/what-uc-hiding-big-12-conference/79713442/

Ok just for the hell of it, let's just say that A) SucKS gets an invite to the Big 12, B) One of the conditions is that they play their games in a 50,000 minimum stadium. That would mean that Kris Kringle Ono oversaw the wasteful spending of at least 100 million dollars on a pig..that would seldom be used.
I find it hard to believe that the Big 12 would approve any deal where the Borecats can just settle into Nippert.
That, and YTG would get crushed in that league.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Big 12 fans like the current basketball format with home/away games for each team. Adding a team or two would basically kill that. However, we all know football viewership is what drives conference moves and the Big 12 has no Ohio link. We know from Rutgers and the B1G, that quality of the program isn't a driver.

[GoMuskies]

There were some sketchy rumors a few days ago about KU and OU putting feelers out on the Big 10, but nothing credible. That's the kind of shakeup that could potentially benefit UC.

[XUMIOH12]

There were some sketchy rumors a few days ago about KU and OU putting feelers out on the Big 10, but nothing credible. That's the kind of shakeup that could potentially benefit UC.

cant imagine that happening (at least any time soon), but wow what a loss that would be for the Big12 in both major sports.

[X-band '01]

Maybe that's just leverage that Oklahoma is throwing out there just to make sure that the Big 12 does everything they can to appease OU. I think their president has been more vocal in recent weeks about the Big 12 needing a new TV network to keep up with the B1G, Pac-12 and SEC.

[xudash]

Maybe that's just leverage that Oklahoma is throwing out there just to make sure that the Big 12 does everything they can to appease OU. I think their president has been more vocal in recent weeks about the Big 12 needing a new TV network to keep up with the B1G, Pac-12 and SEC.

Here's the rub - I believe: when you happen to be parked in the real and true fly-over states, your negotiating leverage for a better television deal simply is lacking, because you can't throw solid population/viewership numbers at the TV executives. UC can deliver a 2.2mm'ish MSA, but it doesn't deliver a strong brand.

The existing ten schools in that conference, as we all know, reside in mostly low pop MSA's. I understand that most of them are THE major schools in their areas, so their appeal reaches beyond city limits, but there just aren't that many people "out there" except for Texas.

[xubrew]

The Big Twelve should not expand.

But, they probably will eventually.

People criticize the Big Twelve, especially those in the SEC, because they don't have to play an "extra" championship game. Well, that's total bullshit. the Big Twelve plays nine conference games. The SEC only plays eight. The conference championship game is not an extra conference game. It's that not having one means you get one less easy OOC game against an FCS school. Winning the Big Twelve isn't easier simply because they don't play a championship game.

I know they want their own network. I realize that the thought process is that more markets equals more viewers. But, it also means more people that you have to share it with. In order for the dollar amount PER SCHOOL to go up, whoever they add would have to generate MORE viewers than what the conference currently averages. Am I wrong?? Is there anyone out there who could really do that??

Lastly, if they do expand, then I fully expect Houston to be one of the teams. I don't think anyone in the Big Twelve particularly wants them. I think Texas and Texas Tech in particular probably don't. But, I think enough people on the Texas State Legislature, and the nine people on the Texas Board of Regents, which oversees all the public universities in Texas, DO want Houston in. It will be a Virginia Tech-ACC situation again. They can essentially put pressure on the two Texas schools to not vote for any scenario that does not include Houston. In other words, it will turn in to "If Houston isn't included, then no one is included" scenario.

I know TCU and Baylor are private, but I've been told that the state of Texas still has a lot of pull with them anyway (although admittedly I'm not entirely sure how). So, that's at least two, and maybe as many as four, that will likely be strong armed into supporting the inclusion of Houston, even though they probably aren't the best pick and probably aren't the school that most of them would prefer to have.

[Juice]

The Big Twelve should not expand.

But, they probably will eventually.

People criticize the Big Twelve, especially those in the SEC, because they don't have to play an "extra" championship game. Well, that's total bullshit. the Big Twelve plays nine conference games. The SEC only plays eight. The conference championship game is not an extra conference game. It's that not having one means you get one less easy OOC game against an FCS school. Winning the Big Twelve isn't easier simply because they don't play a championship game.

I know they want their own network. I realize that the thought process is that more markets equals more viewers. But, it also means more people that you have to share it with. In order for the dollar amount PER SCHOOL to go up, whoever they add would have to generate MORE viewers than what the conference currently averages. Am I wrong?? Is there anyone out there who could really do that??

Lastly, if they do expand, then I fully expect Houston to be one of the teams. I don't think anyone in the Big Twelve particularly wants them. I think Texas and Texas Tech in particular probably don't. But, I think enough people on the Texas State Legislature, and the nine people on the Texas Board of Regents, which oversees all the public universities in Texas, DO want Houston in. It will be a Virginia Tech-ACC situation again. They can essentially put pressure on the two Texas schools to not vote for any scenario that does not include Houston. In other words, it will turn in to "If Houston isn't included, then no one is included" scenario.

I know TCU and Baylor are private, but I've been told that the state of Texas still has a lot of pull with them anyway (although admittedly I'm not entirely sure how). So, that's at least two, and maybe as many as four, that will likely be strong armed into supporting the inclusion of Houston, even though they probably aren't the best pick and probably aren't the school that most of them would prefer to have.

Houston seems like a good addition. Besides them, I think the Big 12 would be better off looking at Boise St. or BYU than UC or UConn.

[xubrew]

Houston seems like a good addition. Besides them, I think the Big 12 would be better off looking at Boise St. or BYU than UC or UConn.

It won't be BYU.

They don't play on Sunday.

Every single athlete in every single sport gets a clock stop waiver due to serving on a religious mission, which many believe to be unfair at worst, and annoying at best.

The culture there is drastically different. Everyone puts themselves first, but BYU really takes that to a whole new level.

I think they're 1000 miles away from the closest Big Twelve school.

BYU already has their own network that they won't want to share.


I don't think it'll be Boise either because their academic classification is so low.

I'm thinking either UConn or Cincinnati are the two that are the most likely.

Or....maybe Texas San Antonio. Probably not, but I think they've got a better shot than BYU or Boise State.

[GoMuskies]

Every single athlete in every single sport gets a clock stop waiver due to serving on a religious mission, which many believe to be unfair at worst, and annoying at best.




Anyone who thinks it's unfair is just a whiner. I mean, the athletes basically don't touch a ball for two years while on their mission. I guess if you find it annoying that's just personal preference, but unfair is kinda laughable.

[xubrew]

Anyone who thinks it's unfair is just a whiner. I mean, the athletes basically don't touch a ball for two years while on their mission. I guess if you find it annoying that's just personal preference, but unfair is kinda laughable.

Well, whatever you want to call it. That's my own summation, and perhaps my verbiage could be better.

I seriously doubt it will be BYU. I think they're viewed as overly narcissistic and given the choice between them and someone else, they'd go with someone else. They're a football independent. I think there is a reason for that. They march to their own drum, and don't like being told what to do by a conference office.

If the Big Twelve did contact them, I can see it going something like this....

B12 - Hey, BYU, how would you like to join our conference??

BYU - Sounds great. But, we'll want this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and.....

B12 - "Uhh, well, let us get back to you."

[xubrew]

....and after that, the way this week has gone, I now fully expect the Big Twelve to announce that they're inviting BYU and Boise State by the end of the day.

[X-band '01]

I know TCU and Baylor are private, but I've been told that the state of Texas still has a lot of pull with them anyway (although admittedly I'm not entirely sure how). So, that's at least two, and maybe as many as four, that will likely be strong armed into supporting the inclusion of Houston, even though they probably aren't the best pick and probably aren't the school that most of them would prefer to have.

If not for their death penalty, SMU would have gotten invited ahead of Baylor. It also helped Baylor to have then-governor Anne Richards stump for the Bears.


It won't be BYU.

They don't play on Sunday.

Every single athlete in every single sport gets a clock stop waiver due to serving on a religious mission, which many believe to be unfair at worst, and annoying at best.

The culture there is drastically different. Everyone puts themselves first, but BYU really takes that to a whole new level.

I think they're 1000 miles away from the closest Big Twelve school.

BYU already has their own network that they won't want to share.


I don't think it'll be Boise either because their academic classification is so low.

I'm thinking either UConn or Cincinnati are the two that are the most likely.

Or....maybe Texas San Antonio. Probably not, but I think they've got a better shot than BYU or Boise State.

1) I think the Big 12 plays most of their weekend games on Saturday anyhow (along with their tournament, so I don't think it would be too difficult to not have BYU play regular-season contests on Sunday.

2) Texas already has a network that they're benefitting from at the expense of the rest of the Big 12, they'll fit in perfectly!

[joe titan]

2) Texas already has a network that they're benefitting from at the expense of the rest of the Big 12, they'll fit in perfectly![/QUOTE]

The Univ Texas TV network has proved to be a financial boondoggle of major proportions; at least 1 reason UT does not mind the expansion talk is their hope the conference will takeover the network or at least work a deal so that the network stops bleeding dollars.

[THRILLHOUSE]

The Univ Texas TV network has proved to be a financial boondoggle of major proportions; at least 1 reason UT does not mind the expansion talk is their hope the conference will takeover the network or at least work a deal so that the network stops bleeding dollars.

False. Texas makes a lot of money off LHN. It's ESPN who's probably losing money on the deal.

"Under the ESPN contract, LHN pays Texas an average minimum annual royalty of $15 million. Once that $295 million investment on studios, offices, fiber-optic cable and personnel is recouped by ESPN, 70 percent of LHN revenue will go to Texas."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/5/8733131/texas-longhorn-network-money-revenue

[GoMuskies]

Nebraska to the Big XII!

http://sports.yahoo.com/m/955417cd-91b3-3530-8164-efba50fe5cb1/ss_report%3A-nebraska-wants-to.html

[X-band '01]

That would only make sense for Nebraska if the Big 12 is able to get a new TV network up and running. Another caveat mentioned in the article would be that Nebraska would rejoin IF (and this is a big IF) Oklahoma leaves the Big 12.

Or is this simply because Nebraska also believes that their football will be much better in a watered-down Big 12 than it currently is in the B1G?

[Muskie]

Nebraska to the Big XII!

http://sports.yahoo.com/m/955417cd-91b3-3530-8164-efba50fe5cb1/ss_report%3A-nebraska-wants-to.html

UC to the Big 10!!!!!!

[xubrew]

Nebraska to the Big XII!

http://sports.yahoo.com/m/955417cd-91b3-3530-8164-efba50fe5cb1/ss_report%3A-nebraska-wants-to.html

From the article.....


Previously, Kansas State's Bill Snyder had said two former Big 12 members wanted to rejoin the conference

Hmmmmm, I wonder who the other one could be??

[GoMuskies]

I assume he would have been talking about Mizzou. Going to the SEC has been a bonanza for A&M and Arkansas, but Mizzou has been kind of a mess (in many, many ways).

[xubrew]

I assume he would have been talking about Mizzou. Going to the SEC has been a bonanza for A&M and Arkansas, but Mizzou has been kind of a mess (in many, many ways).

It's DEFINITELY Mizzou.

Now to be fair, when Bill Snyder was told by "two former Big Twelve members" that they wanted to rejoin the conference, I don't think the person who told him that is in any sort of position to make that decision. But, still, many at Mizzou feel this has not been good. Perhaps the money has been good, but that's about it, and one has to wonder if it has been worth it.

Among other things, Mizzou = Jason Newsted. No one really looks them as belonging where they are, and that includes pretty much the entire rest of the SEC. They have no political power or influence, and are just sort of there to take up space. Attendance is way down, ratings are way down, interest is way down, and of their two revenue sports, one of them has become a complete tire fire. They really don't belong there and everyone with close ties to the athletic side of things seems to realize that.

Now, having said that, if Mizzou reaches out to the Big Twelve in regards to rejoining, one of two things will happen; the Big Twelve will either hang up on them, or they'll laugh uncontrollably for about an hour straight and then hang up on them.

[X-band '01]

Missouri football actually was successful in their initial 2 seasons in the SEC, although quite a bit of that was also due in part to the SEC East being a hot mess. There's no question that their basketball program has substantially regressed in the last 4 years.

[STL_XUfan]

It's DEFINITELY Mizzou.

But, still, many at Mizzou feel this has not been good.




Is this based on a news source or conversations with anyone at Mizzou? I am honestly curious, because everyone I talk to at Mizzou absolutely loves the SEC. Sure we are down this year, but we had back to back SEC East championships that saw record attendance figures. Further, I travel quite a bit with the team (we are trying to get to every SEC stadium) and we have shown up in huge numbers at every away game I have been to (including the ass kicking we got at LSU last weekend).

I really don't think anyone at any level of Mizzou is longing for the days of bowing at the alter of Texas. The only thing anyone misses is the Border War, and that will eventually come back, someday.

[xubrew]

Is this based on a news source or conversations with anyone at Mizzou?

Honestly, neither one. At best it's conversations with people who have had conversations with people at Mizzou. What they said seemed to make sense and seemed to have some sort of basis to it so I just took it for granted. I don't live in Missouri and don't interact with anyone who is either at Mizzou or who closely follows the program. If you're closer to it and I'm wrong then I'll concede the point.

[X-band '01]

Wichita State is potentially being courted by the American even without a football program:

Jon Rothstein - Wichita State Emerges as Potential Basketball-Only Addition to the American (http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/sources-wichita-state-emerges-potential-basketball-addition-aac/)

The title is a bit misleading - Wichita would also move their other sports to the American if this comes to fruition. Navy would still be the 12th member of the American solely for football.

[GoMuskies]

Wichita State is potentially being courted by the American even without a football program:

Jon Rothstein - Wichita State Emerges as Potential Basketball-Only Addition to the American (http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/sources-wichita-state-emerges-potential-basketball-addition-aac/)

The title is a bit misleading - Wichita would also move their other sports to the American if this comes to fruition. Navy would still be the 12th member of the American solely for football.

That would be fantastic for WSU and devastating for the Valley. Hope it happens!

[muskiefan82]

So......WSU could make the two-stop trip to Cincy for a conference and OOC game. That would be cool.

[GoMuskies]

So......WSU could make the two-stop trip to Cincy for a conference and OOC game. That would be cool.

Yes it would. Particularly if that OOC game is returned!

[muskiefan82]

Xavier has shown a willingness to play good OOC teams across the country. This would qualify. They could do a Northern Iowa/Wichita State trip.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do college basketball teams ever really do that where they play two schools in the same area on the same trip? Unless in a tourney setting of some sort I would imagine they would want at least a day or two off in between games which would cause the to unnecessarily miss class and spend more money on lodging etc?

[ammtd34]

Do college basketball teams ever really do that where they play two schools in the same area on the same trip? Unless in a tourney setting of some sort I would imagine they would want at least a day or two off in between games which would cause the to unnecessarily miss class and spend more money on lodging etc?

I don't know about basketball, but other sports do.

[X-band '01]

Do college basketball teams ever really do that where they play two schools in the same area on the same trip? Unless in a tourney setting of some sort I would imagine they would want at least a day or two off in between games which would cause the to unnecessarily miss class and spend more money on lodging etc?

Eastern Washington is playing NKU on Sunday before they come to Cintas next week.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Eastern Washington is playing NKU on Sunday before they come to Cintas next week.

Yeah timing makes sense because they are probably done with the semester I would guess. I guess when done in that time frame it works.

[muskiefan82]

Temple came here and played Cincy, then X one year if I remember correctly. I think they played UC at US Bank Arena (Or whatever it was then) and then X at the Gardens.

[bigdiggins]

Small schools whose non-conference schedule is predominantly buy games to fund their athletic department will do it fairly frequently. A quick review of a couple MEAC and SWAC schedules shows that Coppin St. played BYU and Utah on the same trip this year, Maryland Eastern Shore played La. Tech and SE Louisiana the same week, North Carolina A&T played North Dakota and North Dakota St. on a Friday/Sunday, and Mississippi Valley St. played IPFW and IU back to back nights.

So certainly not something you would expect to see a Wichita St level team do, but it is certainly not uncommon among DI Bball schools.

[muskiefan82]

But if they could combine a conference game (vs. UC) with a premiere OOC game (vs. X) then I could see it happening. If X would then come back to WSU the next year, of course.

[GoMuskies]

I'm sure Xavier could get WSU to agree to come to Cintas one year with the return game in downtown Wichita. Then Xavier wouldn't even have to play on Wichita State's home court.

[bigdiggins]

But if they could combine a conference game (vs. UC) with a premiere OOC game (vs. X) then I could see it happening. If X would then come back to WSU the next year, of course.

I think the challenge would be timing. I suspect X is not as keen on the premier non-conf game during the conference season as they were during the A-10 days. Which would put WSU in a position of final non-conf game and First conference game on a same trip which would be tough.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think the challenge would be timing. I suspect X is not as keen on the premier non-conf game during the conference season as they were during the A-10 days. Which would put WSU in a position of final non-conf game and First conference game on a same trip which would be tough.

Yeah thats what I was thinking as well.

[sirthought]

I would think it might work well for WSU if they could swing series with XU, Wright State, Dayton, Miami, etc.

The timing would have to work extremely well, like maybe last non-conference game, then first conference match with UC.

I doubt they would always want to do this, but they might at least try. I could see the various leagues being excited about the possibilities.

[muskiefan82]

X could fly out there then WSU could ride back on the charter to play uc. Might save a couple $$

[American X]

Mississippi Valley St. played IPFW and IU back to back nights.

I noticed Mississippi Valley State barnstorming through Indiana, so I looked them up only to discover they have the coolest mascots going. Not only do they have the Delta Devil who looks like he is going to wipe out the Justice League...


http://www.prepsportswear.com/media/images/college_logos/300x300/2553976_mktg_logo.png


,,,they also have the Delta Devilette!


http://pre02.deviantart.net/0817/th/pre/i/2013/274/8/7/mvsu_devilette_redesign_by_quicktodraw-d6othqg.jpg

Not sure this Devilette is officially sanctioned. nuts4xu may be switching affiliations.

[Xpectations]

I noticed Mississippi Valley State barnstorming through Indiana, so I looked them up only to discover they have the coolest mascots going. Not only do they have the Delta Devil who looks like he is going to wipe out the Justice League...


http://www.prepsportswear.com/media/images/college_logos/300x300/2553976_mktg_logo.png


,,,they also have the Delta Devilette!


http://pre02.deviantart.net/0817/th/pre/i/2013/274/8/7/mvsu_devilette_redesign_by_quicktodraw-d6othqg.jpg

Not sure this Devilette is officially sanctioned. nuts4xu may be switching affiliations.

Anyone who can legitimately work the "Justice League" into a post deserves reps. Sadly, the man is preventing me from repping you.

[X-band '01]

The Misery continues today - they lose at home to Eastern Illinois.

[GoMuskies]

Interesting idea here: adding Wichita State, VCU and Dayton to the AAC. I think this would be good for all parties involved (well, other than the Valley and the A-10). Seems to me the biggest concern would be the same football/basketball dynamic that destroyed the old Big East. But as long as all of these programs are stuck in a league they don't really want to be in, it would improve their lots to go it together. That would be a pretty damned fine basketball league for as long as they could keep it together.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article135963693.html

[Masterofreality]

Interesting idea here: adding Wichita State, VCU and Dayton to the AAC. I think this would be good for all parties involved (well, other than the Valley and the A-10). Seems to me the biggest concern would be the same football/basketball dynamic that destroyed the old Big East. But as long as all of these programs are stuck in a league they don't really want to be in, it would improve their lots to go it together. That would be a pretty damned fine basketball league for as long as they could keep it together.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article135963693.html

What a Cluster F*%#k!!!!!!

[GoMuskies]

What a Cluster F*%#k!!!!!!

But it would be a very nice basketball clusterfuck while it lasts.

[SM#24]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/gonzaga-to-the-mountain-west-zags-hope-to-reach-conference-decision-in-next-two-weeks/

Gonzaga and maybe BYU to Mt. West ?

[Juice]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/gonzaga-to-the-mountain-west-zags-hope-to-reach-conference-decision-in-next-two-weeks/

Gonzaga and maybe BYU to Mt. West ?

I don't know why this hasn't happened sooner.

[SM#24]

I think Wichita St.’s move showed them that you don’t have to have all football teams.

[paulxu]

NM

[dubbledxu]

WCC overhauling its basketball schedule/requirements

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22922590/west-coast-conference-alters-schedule-rules-hopes-more-ncaa-bids

[dubbledxu]

Gonzaga says no to Mtn West, staying WCC http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/02/gonzaga-athletic-director-mike-roth-says-zags-stay/

[X-band '01]

Instead of a conference carousel this year, we have a mascot carousel this season with both Long Beach State and Long Island University announcing that they will be known as the Sharks effective next season. LBSU is changing their mascot because some students felt that it was offensive to indigenous people, and Long Island University is actually going through a campus merger between LIU-Brooklyn and LIU-Post.

[XU 87]

Instead of a conference carousel this year, we have a mascot carousel this season with both Long Beach State and Long Island University announcing that they will be known as the Sharks effective next season. LBSU is changing their mascot because some students felt that it was offensive to indigenous people, and Long Island University is actually going through a campus merger between LIU-Brooklyn and LIU-Post.

LBSU used to be called the 49ers. Their mascot was Prospector Pete. Apparently, anything referencing the 1849 gold rush is now racially insensitive.

[BandAid]

I thought LBSU's mascot was "The Beach"...

[XU 87]

I thought LBSU's mascot was "The Beach"...

I think "the Beach" is how they now refer to their teams. I just read somewhere that the 49er name has been phased out the last 5 years. The mascot itself is now a shark.

Prospector Pete is apparently a symbol of genocide to the LBSU students and administration.

[GoMuskies]

So the San Francisco 49ers are likely to change names before the Redskins, Indians, Chiefs and Braves? That would be something.

[X-band '01]

I think "the Beach" is how they now refer to their teams. I just read somewhere that the 49er name has been phased out the last 5 years. The mascot itself is now a shark.

Prospector Pete is apparently a symbol of genocide to the LBSU students and administration.

LBSU was founded in 1949 - the mascot was intended to commemorate the opening of the university more so than the Forty-Niners a century earlier. Charlotte also calls themselves the 49ers because their university was saved from the chopping block back in 1949.

[throwbackmuskie]

Hoping LBSU stays the dirtbags on the diamond!

[GoMuskies]

Paging Jimmy 2X

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-powers-texas-oklahoma-inquire-about-joining-sec-in-potentially-massive-shakeup-per-report/

[drudy23]

Paging Jimmy 2X

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-powers-texas-oklahoma-inquire-about-joining-sec-in-potentially-massive-shakeup-per-report/

Then they can move UC to the Big 12 so we can all stop listening to them complain about it - of course, if Oklahoma and Texas leave, is it even the Big 12 anymore?

[xudash]

Then they can move UC to the Big 12 so we can all stop listening to them complain about it - of course, if Oklahoma and Texas leave, is it even the Big 12 anymore?

Uhm, NO!

[Xville]

Paging Jimmy 2X

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-powers-texas-oklahoma-inquire-about-joining-sec-in-potentially-massive-shakeup-per-report/

As a Missouri Fan whose team was held hostage by Texas during the Big 12 days, the SEC should tell Texas to F off.

[MHettel]

well, here we go again. If you subtract Texas and OK from the Big 12, they really have ZERO big brand name programs left in the conference. I mean Ok State is occasionally decent, and the rest of the teams have 1 or 2 good years every decade....but all in all the Big 12 would look very mid-major in Football.

if this happens, follow on moves will occur to shore up B12 football, and this would surely trickle down to basketball.

Thinking the BE is entirely insulated from this wave of realignment, but the overall BBall landscape may change around us.

[xudash]

well, here we go again. If you subtract Texas and OK from the Big 12, they really have ZERO big brand name programs left in the conference. I mean Ok State is occasionally decent, and the rest of the teams have 1 or 2 good years every decade....but all in all the Big 12 would look very mid-major in Football.

if this happens, follow on moves will occur to shore up B12 football, and this would surely trickle down to basketball.

Thinking the BE is entirely insulated from this wave of realignment, but the overall BBall landscape may change around us.

All we need to remember about Big 12 expansion is what happened the last time around when it was evaluated, and when that particular process still involved Texas and Oklahoma as conference members.

The P5 will go to the unbalanced P4?

The best of the AAC and the best remnants of the Big 12 will move to create a patched up Big 12 conference that is positioned like the AAC is now?

The leftovers keep the AAC branding, but back up even more.

Agree about no impact on hoops, except that Wichita State may move or get shown the door.

[MHettel]

All we need to remember about Big 12 expansion is what happened the last time around when it was evaluated, and when that particular process still involved Texas and Oklahoma as conference members.

The P5 will go to the unbalanced P4?

The best of the AAC and the best remnants of the Big 12 will move to create a patched up Big 12 conference that is positioned like the AAC is now?

The leftovers keep the AAC branding, but back up even more.

Agree about no impact on hoops, except that Wichita State may move or get shown the door.

Ultimate outcome for football purposes is 4 mega conferences with 16 teams each. 64 Teams total. perfect symmetry. that BEGS for an 8 or 16 team Football playoff. Equal representation from each conference (2 or 4 teams each). Notre Dame is the only real challenge to deal with.

[bobbiemcgee]

10 year thread. Some old time posters, jimmy2x, sixfig, DC Muskie, GuyFawkes, XUGlow, kahnskrazy and the all-time leader in red dots -_lh

[STL_XUfan]

As a Missouri Fan whose team was held hostage by Texas during the Big 12 days, the SEC should tell Texas to F off.
Is there a way to fuck kansas and Texas with this? Cause I want to take that option. Short of that, SEC should stay as far as way from Texas as possible, they ruin everything they touch.

[xucub]

Ultimate outcome for football purposes is 4 mega conferences with 16 teams each. 64 Teams total. perfect symmetry. that BEGS for an 8 or 16 team Football playoff. Equal representation from each conference (2 or 4 teams each). Notre Dame is the only real challenge to deal with.


And there is your 64 team basketball tourney. All the $ stays within the P4.

[XUGRAD80]

And there is your 64 team basketball tourney. All the $ stays within the P4.

I don’t know that this would effect many other sports national championship tournaments than football. Seems to me that one of the real attractions of the BB tourney is the “Cinderella’s” that come from the smaller conferences, and many of the other sports do not have their national championships dominated by the power 5 conferences. This is all about football and controlling the money it brings in.

[Xville]

I hate the idea of the sec taking Texas….they have destroyed every conference they have been in, and there is already a whole lot of ego in the sec that I don’t think there is room for Texas’ especially when they haven’t been relevant in over a decade. But, it’s all about dollars so it will probably regrettably happen

[GoMuskies]

How many years until Texas and Texas A&M come to their senses and start playing each other in football again? Seeing as how Nebraska and Oklahoma still don't play, I assume the answer is many years, which is depressing.

Well shit, I just saw that Oklahoma and Nebraska are playing this year. I guess sanity does EVENTUALLY prevail!

[Blue Blooded-05]

Ultimate outcome for football purposes is 4 mega conferences with 16 teams each. 64 Teams total. perfect symmetry. that BEGS for an 8 or 16 team Football playoff. Equal representation from each conference (2 or 4 teams each). Notre Dame is the only real challenge to deal with.

Interesting...

- SEC would be at 16 with Texas and Oklahoma
- ACC would need to add 1 (assuming ND becomes full time football member) - Probably West Virginia
- Big 10 would need to add 2 - Probably Kansas and either Kansas St or Iowa St
- Pac 12 would need to add 4 - Probably Ok St, Texas Tech and Baylor with the last slot for up for grabs between Boise St, BYU, TCU and whoever wasn’t chosen for the Big 10 between Kansas st and Iowa st


And there is your 64 team basketball tourney. All the $ stays within the P4.

No way. Too much interest in the mid majors every March (for the first 2 weeks anyway). There are still some real dogs in the hypothetical realignment above. Northwestern has a rich tradition of sucking in all sports annually. They’re the 3rd best basketball program in their own city. No way they get grandfathered into the Big Dance over all the teams in the Big East, Gonzaga, Houston, Loyola, etc.

What will probably happen is the football and basketball conferences will begin to differentiate. Not sure what that will do for the Olympic sports but they’ll have to fall in line or lose funding.

[SM#24]

How many years until Texas and Texas A&M come to their senses and start playing each other in football again? Seeing as how Nebraska and Oklahoma still don't play, I assume the answer is many years, which is depressing.

Well shit, I just saw that Oklahoma and Nebraska are playing this year. I guess sanity does EVENTUALLY prevail!

Good to see Okla-Neb match up again even if Neb is a shadow of its former self. However, I don't think it will be a regular annual meeting.

[SM#24]

Do the others really need to expand ?
B1G is already at 14. ACC at 14 for football (15 everything else).
If B1G brings in any of Kansas, OK St, WVU, Iowa St (although Iowa would raise hell), is the amount of revenue added greater than adding new mouths to feed ?

I see Texas, OU leaving for the SEC and the Big 12 raiding the AAC (Houston, UC, UCF, Memphis) and then the AAC raiding CUSA and Sun Belt.

I don't think any other sport will be greatly affected by this.

[SM#24]

Ultimate outcome for football purposes is 4 mega conferences with 16 teams each. 64 Teams total. perfect symmetry. that BEGS for an 8 or 16 team Football playoff. Equal representation from each conference (2 or 4 teams each). Notre Dame is the only real challenge to deal with.
SEC would never agree to this. They think if the playoff goes to 12, they will get 3-4 of the 6 at-large spots in addition to their conference champ.

[MHettel]

Do the others really need to expand ?
B1G is already at 14. ACC at 14 for football (15 everything else).
If B1G brings in any of Kansas, OK St, WVU, Iowa St (although Iowa would raise hell), is the amount of revenue added greater than adding new mouths to feed ?

I see Texas, OU leaving for the SEC and the Big 12 raiding the AAC (Houston, UC, UCF, Memphis) and then the AAC raiding CUSA and Sun Belt.

I don't think any other sport will be greatly affected by this.

WHEN Texas and OU go to the SEC, the B12 will be on it's heels and will need to shore things up before the remaining commodities get picked off. Think about Kansas. NOT a football school, and a BlueBlood in Basketball. Do you think they would be interested in having the BBall side of the B12 diluted by adding some AAC teams? Or, do you think they would JUMP at a chance to join the B10? The B10 has some serious Bball brands already, and adding Kansas...would make too much sense. The Big10 could grab WVU as well. Now, 2 of the 4 "big" conferences will be at 16. Half way to the 64 team arrangement. The ACC and PAC 12 will be the other 2 members of this "big 4" arrangement. The B12 will get picked apart. I'd be shocked if all of the conference leaders weren't huddling as we speak to plan out their moves and countermoves.

Get some popcorn!

[MHettel]

How about this football arrangement?

4 Conferences, 16 teams each.

2 8 Team divisions per conference

Each team plays every division opponent (7 games) plus 2 opponents from the other division.

Each team ALSO plays 2 non-con games against any other opponent among the 64 teams. (no games played against an opponent outside of the 64 teams)

Division winners face each other for Conference Championship.

NC Playoffs consist of 12 teams total, 3 from each conference.

Conference champs get a bye.

1st playoff round is conference runner up, vs. an at-large from each conference (selected by some committee).

After the first round, regular 8 team tournament.

Conference winners would need to win 3 games to win NC. Runners up and at-large would need to win 4.

How much money do you think this would make?

[xudash]

The media packages have to work in order for a conference to be willing to expand. Period. End of story.

Would it make sense from a TV dollar-flow standpoint for the SEC to add Texas and Oklahoma? Of course it does.

Now, move on from there to realize that:

1. The Big12 would be gutted if UT and OU leave:

- It couldn't get to 12 for a media package that made sense the last time it tried and that was with UT and OU.

- It can get to 12, but the point is that it would get there as a diminished conference with lower per school media payouts.

- UC would still join it and then believe they finally made it to "hot shit" status, which is entertaining.


2. There probably would not be any requirement for balanced conferences; a requirement for 16 teams each. The B1G isn't going to pick up scraps just for the sake of leveling off at 16. Again, media package valuations will drive it. Kansas, for its basketball program, when you are solving for football? Nope.


3. This has nothing to do with basketball. NO ONE has any interest in slaughtering the golden calf - the NCAAT. Everyone understands that its appeal is in its inclusiveness and that the eyeballs on it during the first weekend aren't due to 64 football schools.

Perhaps an unbalanced P4, then a reconstituted diminished Big12 that takes the AAC's place in stature, and an AAC that backfills with C-USA, etc.

Thank God for the Big East.

[MHettel]

The media packages have to work in order for a conference to be willing to expand. Period. End of story.

Would it make sense from a TV dollar-flow standpoint for the SEC to add Texas and Oklahoma? Of course it does.

Now, move on from there to realize that:

1. The Big12 would be gutted if UT and OU leave:

- It couldn't get to 12 for a media package that made sense the last time it tried and that was with UT and OU.

- It can get to 12, but the point is that it would get there as a diminished conference with lower per school media payouts.

- UC would still join it and then believe they finally made it to "hot shit" status, which is entertaining.


2. There probably would not be any requirement for balanced conferences; a requirement for 16 teams each. The B1G isn't going to pick up scraps just for the sake of leveling off at 16. Again, media package valuations will drive it. Kansas, for its basketball program, when you are solving for football? Nope.


3. This has nothing to do with basketball. NO ONE has any interest in slaughtering the golden calf - the NCAAT. Everyone understands that its appeal is in its inclusiveness and that the eyeballs on it during the first weekend aren't due to 64 football schools.

Perhaps an unbalanced P4, then a reconstituted diminished Big12 that takes the AAC's place in stature, and an AAC that backfills with C-USA, etc.

Thank God for the Big East.

I agree to some extent. What I really think you mean is that it's all about money. Which it is. And a exclusive group of 64 schools can pretty much "box out" every other D1 football team and host a playoff with equal representation from each conference and it would dwarf the NCAA Tournament in viewership and revenue. So, if you told the Big10 to expand to 16 teams for THAT reason, I'm quite certain they would.

[xudash]

I agree to some extent. What I really think you mean is that it's all about money. Which it is. And a exclusive group of 64 schools can pretty much "box out" every other D1 football team and host a playoff with equal representation from each conference and it would dwarf the NCAA Tournament in viewership and revenue. So, if you told the Big10 to expand to 16 teams for THAT reason, I'm quite certain they would.

Well stated.

If the money is available, they'll chase it. My only advice would be not to "tell" the B1G what to do. You may get further along with them if you politely suggest an obvious value-added solution for them. Deal with their arrogance and all that. (Just kidding).

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SHARING THIS FROM A RESPONSE I MADE TO A MARQUETTE FAN ON THE HLOH:

GoldenWarrior11 wrote:
We are moving towards both the SEC and B1G acquiring and consolidating all of the top remaining brands in college athletics. I very much see, eventually, the B1G taking the AAU PAC programs, along with the "Holy Grail" - UNC, Virginia, Duke and Georgia Tech - that was the original Jim Delaney vision. The SEC, in addition to Texas and Oklahoma, would eventually acquire Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, West Virginia and a few others. What we finish with is two national ultra-conferences that replace the NCAA as the higher authority in governance and oversight in college athletics. This is the start of slicing off the non-valuable entities in the P5 - the Kansas States, Washington States, Oregon States, Wake Forests, etc. - and keeping all of the revenues (and more) to the top grouping. Between the NIL and the expansion of the CFP, this is all coordinated. We are likely in for a rogue wave of realignment that will make the 2010-11 cycle look like a kiddy pool.


Very interesting. Practically would become the antithesis of the NCAAT basketball side of the world.

And why not? The playoff system will get figured out, whether it flows from a 4x16 or 2x32 or XxY structure.

I totally agree with you about this being the beginning of slicing off the pretenders. BC, Wake and the "smaller" state schools in remote regions of the country aren't well positioned for this change.

Your bolded and underlined statement represents the end game for us - - the Big East. I can't see where the football powers simply do not understand the existing power and appeal of the NCAAT as it exists today. The NCAA organization itself has rightfully maneuvered its way into a precarious position. The whole new thing of student-athletes making money from NIL's is a factor.

Old data, but insightful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Collegiate_Athletic_Association#Finances

Which entity will cut the paychecks for NCAAT participation/performance in the future, assuming it remains inclusive?

How will the politicians step in to arrest some of the consolidation of power, because Columbus, Ohio and Tuscaloosa, Alabama, among a relative few others are going to become very powerful if all this comes home to roost.

[SM#24]

Why does it have to be 64 ? I understand the symmetry of it but it could be any number. For some reason we're hung up on numbers evenly divisible by 2 or 4 or that make a symmetrical bracket. Currently the P5 and ND numbers 65. And they can already form a playoff that excludes the Other 5 (they essentially have). I think they have held off due to anti-trust threats and bad PR (personally I do not think they would lose an anti-trust case; it's just that it is constantly threatened by the Other 5).
Yes, the B12 will be decimated; left with 8 not very attractive schools to B1G or ACC. I could see maybe the Pac12 jumping in to pick off OK St., Baylor Texas Tech, Kansas to get into the Texas and other markets. Those schools are already on the Pac12 border, plus the Pac12 is all air travel anyway. But I don't see any of the 8 left adding any value to B1G or ACC. The 8 will beg them for admission but I just don't see the value for B1G or ACC.

[bourbonman]

Well stated.

If the money is available, they'll chase it.

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SHARING THIS FROM A RESPONSE I MADE TO A MARQUETTE FAN ON THE HLOH:

GoldenWarrior11 wrote:
We are moving towards both the SEC and B1G acquiring and consolidating all of the top remaining brands in college athletics. I very much see, eventually, the B1G taking the AAU PAC programs, along with the "Holy Grail" - UNC, Virginia, Duke and Georgia Tech - that was the original Jim Delaney vision. The SEC, in addition to Texas and Oklahoma, would eventually acquire Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, West Virginia and a few others. What we finish with is two national ultra-conferences that replace the NCAA as the higher authority in governance and oversight in college athletics. This is the start of slicing off the non-valuable entities in the P5 - the Kansas States, Washington States, Oregon States, Wake Forests, etc. - and keeping all of the revenues (and more) to the top grouping. Between the NIL and the expansion of the CFP, this is all coordinated. We are likely in for a rogue wave of realignment that will make the 2010-11 cycle look like a kiddy pool.

……

Very interesting. Practically would become the antithesis of the NCAAT basketball side of the world.

Your bolded and underlined statement represents the end game for us - - the Big East. I can't see where the football powers simply do not understand the existing power and appeal of the NCAAT as it exists today. The NCAA organization itself has rightfully maneuvered its way into a precarious position. The whole new thing of student-athletes making money from NIL's is a factor.

Which entity will cut the paychecks for NCAAT participation/performance in the future, assuming it remains inclusive?.

Basically, this is my biggest fear with super conferences. They will eventually bullying some of their bottom feeders out, but before that they will turn their back on non-conference schools, including the Big East. I believe the NCAAT is one of the special sporting events there exists today. I hope our conference is somehow proactive in discussions, even though we’re a non factor in the football dialogue.

[xudash]

More perspective: https://thefederalist.com/2021/07/23/texas-and-ou-leaving-the-big-12-is-just-one-sign-of-a-seismic-shift-in-college-sports/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the_federalist_daily_briefing_2021_07 _24&utm_term=2021-07-24

My takeaways:

1. The CFB Division will shrink, primarily due to the NIL, as well as the media contracts money gap (Duh!).

2. If the NCAAT essentially remains in its present form, regardless of the entity that comes to govern it, and then assuming that that outcome means the money available from it (NCAA UNITS, or whatever they end up being called) remains the same, then the BE will be in position to succeed long-term.

3. So, what about operating effectively in the land of the NIL’s? Downside: save for UCONN, we are all small/ish private schools - fan base size is an issue. Upside: (1) For the BE, we’re already well branded and we operate in some of the largest local markets in the nation; (2) For Xavier, I believe we’re in good shape because we’re in Cincinnati (it’s big enough), I think we have a sharp administration that is capable of managing this dynamic, I think we have a sufficient pool of sponsors, judging from the advertising in the Cintas (though those dollars or a portion of them would end up going directly to the student-athlete, and I believe some of the kids that are recruited to Xavier are sharp enough to carve their own path in this frontier.

Do you want an example of that last one? We have a young man on the tennis team from Colorado/Newport Beach, California who has over 40,000 followers on a social media platform.