Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[xudash]

Same idea basically. Its still essentially going to be that group of teams left behind, save maybe Miami for Duke like you suggest. It will be the ACC, but it wont be the ACC that we've grown to know.

Agreed.

[JTG]

Agreed.

Hard to believe Duke may end up in an "also ran conference". Indiana doesn't realize how lucky it is to be in the BIG. They are one of the worst football programs all time in the history of college football, but they are considered elite because they are in the BIG.

[GoMuskies]

No one considers Indiana football elite. Other than maybe UK football.

[xudash]

From Andy Katz:

Hired Proskauer Rose LLP and Pilson Communications (TV consulting firm run by former CBS Sports boss Neal Pilson)

And want to have an "orderly evolution to a foundation of basketball schools that honors the tradition of the Big East"

[Masterofreality]

No one considers Indiana football elite. Other than maybe UK football.

Spoken likes true U of L guy. :crazy:

[JTG]

No one considers Indiana football elite. Other than maybe UK football.

My point was not that IU football is elite, but that they are a member of an elite conference. Hell, there are high school football teams in Indiana that IU couln't beat. All their hillbilly fan base cares about is basketball...and they are maybe the most ignorant basketball fans in America...if it's not the BIG they are clueless about the rest of the country.

[vee4xu]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21494972/catholic-7-schools-meet-retain-legal-counsel-and-plot-future

Updated article on the Catholic 7. First date to leave without fees: June 30, 2015

Any earlier date would require paying to get out.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21494972/catholic-7-schools-meet-retain-legal-counsel-and-plot-future

Updated article on the Catholic 7. First date to leave without fees: June 30, 2015

Any earlier date would require paying to get out.

I think I just heard a stampede of lawyers rushing to Big East Headquarters

[xudash]

I think I just heard a stampede of lawyers rushing to Big East Headquarters

Don't forget that the "accelerator" for all this will be the soon-to-be announced raids of the ACC by the B1G and SEC, and perhaps the B12. UCONN, UC and probably even Temple's motives (for exiting) would be fully aligned with the C7 at that point.

The attorneys are absolutely lining up, but a big assist is on the way.

[paulxu]

Don't they have enough votes themselves to just fold the league and divide the assets? Then there would be no exit fees or dates or anything.

(With no current TV deal for 2013 football/basketball seasons, it's not going to drag out till 2015)

[LA Muskie]

Don't they have enough votes themselves to just fold the league and divide the assets? Then there would be no exit fees or dates or anything.

(With no current TV deal for 2013 football/basketball seasons, it's not going to drag out till 2015)
No one seems to know what the bylaws provide and there is a ton of conflicting information out there about what the schools can do.

[xudash]

This thing isn't dragging out to 2015. That doesn't work for anyone.


http://www.benation.com/who-will-get-the-big-east-name-the-big-east-7-or-the-football-schools-does-it-matter/

[coasterville95]

And a partnership amongst two sides that don't want to be there is never a good thing. It may take the unanimous vote to dissolve, but as long as they have a voting block they sure can make the Big Easts life a living hell until they are allowed to exit.

Not agreeing to any TV deal would be a great start to that.

[GoMuskies]

Good to see a future conference-mate take down UC today at the Shoe.

[Masterofreality]

Good to see a future conference-mate take down UC today at the Shoe.

Catholic 10/12/14/16 > ACC?

[GoMuskies]

Catholic 10/12/14/16 > ACC?

If the ACC includes Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, North Carolina and Duke? No.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

More whispers the B1G is actively looking at expansion




By then the Big Ten will have at least 14 schools, assuming Rutgers can trim the Big East's 27-month notification for departure. Some sources within the Big Ten believe the conference won't stop expanding until it hits 18.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0106-northwestern-football--20130106,0,244829.story

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Big East may next target UMass & Tulsa @ESPNAndyKatz reports http://es.pn/Wo3CGx

[Masterofreality]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Big East may next target UMass & Tulsa @ESPNAndyKatz reports http://es.pn/Wo3CGx

Whatever that league is called will abjectly suck.

I hope that SucKS is stuck in it. Appropriate.

[coasterville95]

Wow, as I said in the other tread, life can't be happy at A10 headquarters.

Imagine if the latest prevailing rumors and known A10 exits take place

Charlotte to C-USA
Temple, UMass to the Football Playing Big East
Xavier, Butler. Dayton to the Non Football Playing Big East (Big Priest)

If that all happened suddenly the A10 is back to 10, and could do a double round robin, in sure a league consisting of:

SLU, Dusquene, LaSuck, St Joe, Richmond, VCU, Fordham, St Bonnie, and Rhody would be just tantalizing basketball.

Except, i think SLU would decide something like the MWC is a better fit as they would really be out on an island

Then there is the 12 team Big Priest suggestion that would also bring in SLU and possibly Dusquene. Lets look at this as an A10 worst case scenario. Take out SLU and the Dukes as well, leave then with 8. (That said Creighton is much more interesting than the Dukes).

[_LH]

Wow, as I said in the other tread, life can't be happy at A10 headquarters.

Imagine if the latest prevailing rumors and known A10 exits take place

Charlotte to C-USA
Temple, UMass to the Football Playing Big East
Xavier, Butler. Dayton to the Non Football Playing Big East (Big Priest)

If that all happened suddenly the A10 is back to 10, and could do a double round robin, in sure a league consisting of:

SLU, Dusquene, LaSuck, St Joe, Richmond, VCU, Fordham, St Bonnie, and Rhody would be just tantalizing basketball.

Except, i think SLU would decide something like the MWC is a better fit as they would really be out on an island

Then there is the 12 team Big Priest suggestion that would also bring in SLU and possibly Dusquene. Lets look at this as an A10 worst case scenario. Take out SLU and the Dukes as well, leave then with 8. (That said Creighton is much more interesting than the Dukes).

Why in God's name would the C7 have any interest in adding Duquesne?

[MHettel]

Why in God's name would the C7 have any interest in adding Duquesne?

Pittsburg. Seems like everyone forgets that money drives everything. Football decisions were made with money in mind. You dont think basketball decisions would be made the same way?

Duquesne sucks, no question about that. But could they be competitive if they were to get a huge infusion of dollars related to the TV contract of this new conference? Maybe.

And consider that the current BE already has a member in Pittsburg that is departing. Its possible that the C7 already see value in that market and would like to retain it.

I think there are alot of good markets out there that have bad teams that could be under consideration. Detroit also comes to mind. LOTS of markets in the West with similar schools that current dont field competitive teams.

remember the statement from the C7, wanting to restore the foundations of the BE (urban schools with big media markets)....

With all this, I'd still say MAYB 5% Duquesne gets it. It's just trying to make the argument for it. There is an obvious argument against it....

[_LH]

Pittsburg.

I'm sure the A10 thought that as well in 1995 and they have never seen the so called benefits from it. Sorry but it does not hold water. Why would the C7 and three other schools - probably XU, Buter and either SLU, Creighton or UD want to split their pot even more by adding in crappy Duquesne. I'm sure there are plenty of Nova fans and alumni that watch t.v. in Pittsburgh.

[MHettel]

I'm sure the A10 thought that as well in 1995 and they have never seen the so called benefits from it. Sorry but it does not hold water. Why would the C7 and three other schools - probably XU, Buter and either SLU, Creighton or UD want to split their pot even more by adding in crappy Duquesne. I'm sure there are plenty of Nova fans and alumni that watch t.v. in Pittsburgh.

I said this was the case for Duquesene. If you were a laywer and had to make a case for your client, you'd make this your position. I dont think it will happen. But that wasnt the question. They question is why would the C7 consider Duquense, and the reason is simply Pittsburg.

[GoMuskies]

Pittsburg.

A beautiful city in Kansas without a doubt.

[DC Muskie]

Is Pittsburg the capitol or capital of Kansas?

[xudash]

Is Pittsburg the capitol or capital of Kansas?

If you guys are talking about the one in PA, you're missing an "h."

[paulxu]

I think there are alot of good markets out there that have bad teams that could be under consideration.

= Dayton

[Masterofreality]

I think there are alot of good markets out there that have bad teams that could be under consideration. Detroit also comes to mind. ...

Strike One..


= Dayton

Strke Two.

Good markets? Detroit? Dayton? Blahhhhhhhhhhh.

[JTG]

Strike One..



Strke Two.

Good markets? Detroit? Dayton? Blahhhhhhhhhhh.

Really???? Is there rampant drug use on this board. Having been to both citues on various occassions, one is a craphole,,Detroit, and the other, Dayton is Appallacia on I-70.

[_LH]

I said this was the case for Duquesene. If you were a laywer and had to make a case for your client, you'd make this your position. I dont think it will happen. But that wasnt the question. They question is why would the C7 consider Duquense, and the reason is simply Pittsburg.

Yeah, I don't think their location is a factor at all and that the C7 won't consider Duquesne for one second, nor should they.

[Masterofreality]

Really???? Is there rampant drug use on this board. Having been to both citues on various occassions, one is a craphole,,Detroit, and the other, Dayton is Appallacia on I-70.

My point exactly.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

@CBSSports The Big East is now prepared to lose San Diego State. http://cbsprt.co/SDSUMWC

[GoMuskies]

"The membership for 2014 as it stands: Cincinnati, South Florida, UConn, Central Florida, Temple, Memphis, SMU, Houston, East Carolina, Tulane."

:laugh:

[paulxu]

Can you be the BE if only 2 out of 10 teams are actually IN the east?

That looks like the Big South that invited Cincinnati, Temple and UConn to join.

[xudash]

"The membership for 2014 as it stands: Cincinnati, South Florida, UConn, Central Florida, Temple, Memphis, SMU, Houston, East Carolina, Tulane."

:laugh:

Wow.

You just have to imagine that UC's disposition is nervously relaxed: they must truly believe more shuffling will occur, resulting in the ACC being raided.

So, rather than ending up in that above mess, the "new" ACC ends up looking a LITTLE better:

BC
Wake
NC State / Miami (one of the two, with one getting called up to the Big4)

Then:
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
UCONN
UC
USF
UCF

And then:
Temple
Memphis

If plucking continues from there (e.g. Louisville to the B12), then keep backfilling with Houston, etc.

Were going from the BCS 6 to the Big4 plus the remodeled ACC plus the remodeled BE. I like how this is turning out for X.

[paulxu]

And you typed all that without reference to the Domers. Nice.

[MHettel]

Wow.

You just have to imagine that UC's disposition is nervously relaxed: they must truly believe more shuffling will occur, resulting in the ACC being raided.

So, rather than ending up in that above mess, the "new" ACC ends up looking a LITTLE better:

BC
Wake
NC State / Miami (one of the two, with one getting called up to the Big4)

Then:
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
UCONN
UC
USF
UCF

And then:
Temple
Memphis

If plucking continues from there (e.g. Louisville to the B12), then keep backfilling with Houston, etc.

Were going from the BCS 6 to the Big4 plus the remodeled ACC plus the remodeled BE. I like how this is turning out for X.

You assume Duke ends up where? I just dont see their collective sports programs as strong enought to compete in the SEC or B12 or B10. I think Duke stays in the ACC and LVille goes. I wouldn't expect that the ACC would expand / backfill past Temple and Memphis. No reason to consider Houston or any riff-raff like that.

The remains of the ACC could be pretty stacked from a BBall perspective if UConn, Duke, Cuse, etc are in there and they make sure not to dilute the product with teams like East Carolina...

[MHettel]

And you typed all that without reference to the Domers. Nice.

I mentioned a few weeks ago, and I still beleive that ND is a big wild card in the C7 deal. Imagine how much more cache they could bring to a new conference. They wouldnt ever have to consider their football choices, and they bring national brand to the BBall court. Take the 12 in consideration right now, then subtract Dayton and replace them with ND. What is the incremental value to our TV deal for that?

ND must be evaluating their options right now. They made the move to the ACC back when it looked like the ACC would stay pertinent. But now, with the SEC, B12, and B10 circling like vultures, ND has to have a plan B. Certainly the B10 would take them in, but is that the best fit for ND? It might have been the best fit until the C7 pulled away, presenting a new option for ND.

I think the B12 has GOT to get into Florida. I think they move on FSU and maybe Miami. Absolute worst case for B12 would be for SEC to expand by taking these 2 florida schools. B12 needs to be able to recruit in FLA, and cannot be locked out.

[paulxu]

Absolute worst case for B12 would be for SEC to expand by taking these 2 florida schools. B12 needs to be able to recruit in FLA, and cannot be locked out.

What? There is no way in the world the SEC would expand to have 3 teams in the state of Florida.
They want more states, not more teams in a state. (see Missouri/Texas)

[xudash]

I mentioned a few weeks ago, and I still beleive that ND is a big wild card in the C7 deal. Imagine how much more cache they could bring to a new conference. They wouldnt ever have to consider their football choices, and they bring national brand to the BBall court. Take the 12 in consideration right now, then subtract Dayton and replace them with ND. What is the incremental value to our TV deal for that?

ND must be evaluating their options right now. They made the move to the ACC back when it looked like the ACC would stay pertinent. But now, with the SEC, B12, and B10 circling like vultures, ND has to have a plan B. Certainly the B10 would take them in, but is that the best fit for ND? It might have been the best fit until the C7 pulled away, presenting a new option for ND.

I think the B12 has GOT to get into Florida. I think they move on FSU and maybe Miami. Absolute worst case for B12 would be for SEC to expand by taking these 2 florida schools. B12 needs to be able to recruit in FLA, and cannot be locked out.

As we've discussed in the past, ND's Olympic Sports will most likely preclude it from considering the new hoops BE.

Otherwise, I'll still go with what I heard a while ago re Duke: the SEC wants them for their basketball and academic prestige. They aren't solving for football, insofar as they're pretty well stocked up on that.

Paul, good catch about forgetting ND. It was easy to do after last Monday night. I was thinking of the football side of it anyway.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver chimes in haha:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=11163805&sto=MS_135117532


Before you flame remember that the last time I told you the Big was ready to move it was a mere two weeks later that MD and Rutgers were added...


The Big10 held a secret meeting two nights ago with unofficial representatives from 4 current ACC schools(UNC, UVA, GT, BC) and 1 current BigEast/Indy(ND).

Numerous topics were discussed including the BTN, TV contracts, and of course, expansion.

At this point the Big10 can not just stop at 16. They may very well only take 2 to begin with but it will be on the promise of more invites coming. No two schools in the ACC will move together at this point in time. Even with whispers of MD getting out for less than $25 million, no two schools will move yet. Now if the BiG sends out 3-4 invites they can get some of their better targets, but no one is leaving without at least two friends right now.

With that being the case, the Big is close to issuing invites to UVA, GT, BC, and UNC. That puts them at 18 with no plans of stopping there. Fox wants Notre Dame. The BiG wants ND. A 20 team BiG that included ND would have FOX paying nearly $600 million per year for Tier1(including CCG) rights-close to $30 million per team not counting Tier 2, Bowl payouts, playoffs, and BTN.

So assuming ND is 19, Who is 20?

Line up and beg!

Here's a list of who has told the BiG “NO”: Texas

Here's a list of who has told them “probably Not”: Kansas

Here's who remains that have been in talks of some type...

Uconn-would jump in a BigEast minute

Duke-would love to stay with big brother

Cuse-don't count them out

Pitt-nope

Wake-nope

Navy-Laugh if you will but do not count them out as a dark horse even with having MD, the midshipmen are a national name with a national following

Clemson-very unlikey

Miami-has possibly a better chance than...

FSU-not going to sugarcoat it here, FSU wants the BiG bad...real bad. So bad that their president has created a plan to reach AAU status within 5-7 years in hopes it will be enough to convince the BiG to take them as well. The SEC has already told them no. If they can get a BiG offer they believe an SEC offer will follow then watch the drama!

Like it or not, expansion is coming again, soon. We can't stop it, or slow it down. It will continue it's inexorable march and we will simply look on and add commentary.

Where does this leave the Big12? Fox is driving that bus too so no worries guys. If we happen to not land FSU there are still great pickings left from the group of NCST, VT, Clemson, Miami, Pitt, and the rest. Unfortunately the Big12 is not in quite the same position as the SEC and BiG. We will have to wait for the leavings...
EDIT------------------
I left out a big one...the NCAA will give a 20 team conference an extra game(semi-final) and it could allow for any conference with at least 10 teams to have a CCG as well(Delaney's own words). Lots going on in the shadows there. I'll keep you posted

[BMoreX]

#SDSDomination ‏@SanDiego_Sports
Source: expect a news conference some time this week as #SDSUwill remain in the #MWC. Working on the story now.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

SDSU returning to the MWC.

Official
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21563706/san-diego-state-returning-to-mountain-west-big-east-commish-looks-to-future

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21564054/big-12-commissioner-league-could-be-proactive-in-expansion

Big 12 commissioner: "League could be proactive in expansion'

[paulxu]

Glad to see the Dude is keeping the pot stirred up:

http://www.eersauthority.com/big-10-and-sec-race-to-add-acc-schools/

[Masterofreality]

So, we know the Catholics are supposedly all gone, but could that mean that Pitt, Syacuse, Louisville and Boston College all go back to the Big Least?

[paulxu]

Sort of like the BE guys backing out of a league that doesn't really exist? I could see that. They'll need a second tier football home someplace.

[Masterofreality]

Sort of like the BE guys backing out of a league that doesn't really exist? I could see that. They'll need a second tier football home someplace.

The "Whatever the Hell the name of this Second Rate Football" Conference is still is existing because of Tulane, SMU, East Carolina, South Florida and Central Florida, SucKS and UCon. Those other four could go back and be at 11 then add Navy for 12. It won't be big league football but it's a league.

I still can't see how the Catholics would want to go back to make an 18 team league that was even more unwieldy than before.

[bleedXblue]

College football sucks

This is beyond being a total complete joke

[GoMuskies]

If the Dude says something, believe the opposite.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.offtackleempire.com/2013/1/20/3897940/big-ten-expansion-realignment-acc-sec-big-12

http://www.eersauthority.com/big-10-and-sec-race-to-add-acc-schools/


Multiple sources within the Big 10 contend the University of Virginia is set to receive an invitation to join the conference early next week. UVA is expected to ratify the move from the ACC to the Big 10 shortly after receiving the invitation.

UVA would become the 15th member of the Big 10.

None of the Big 10 sources would divulge the identity of the Big 10’s target for #16 but they did confirm that Georgia Tech and UNC are the leading candidates.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
Heard from my Austin source. B12 is meeting to pick 4 teams that will be offered. Only ? is about Clemson. FSU, Miami, NC State are locks.

This was the guy who broke the Maryland and Rutgers chatter first and people thought he was crazy

[muskiefan82]

Syracuse and Pitt must be losing their minds right now. HA!!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The Big 12 expansion committee is meeting next week. Here we go!

[GoMuskies]

Tuxedo Yoda is a Texas guy and not a WV guy, so there's at least a chance he's credible. The WV folks are batshit crazy. Probably owing to the fact that they're from WV.

[Masterofreality]

Syracuse and Pitt must be losing their minds right now. HA!!

Unless they decide to go back to the Big Least........hmmmmmmm?

[bourbonman]

Syracuse and Pitt must be losing their minds right now. HA!!

So are U of L fans.

[GoMuskies]

Could be willful blindness, but the Louisville fans I know are not worried about the ACC falling apart.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"More Seismic re-alignment brewing?"


Among the agenda items for Big 12 athletic directors at meetings in Dallas on Monday and Tuesday is a "philosophical" discussion about possible expansion, multiple sources close to the situation told Orangebloods.com on Wednesday.

While the degree of intensity about expansion in the Big 12 ranges from school to school, there is a sigh of relief the issue is finally being discussed - at all - under the watch of new commissioner Bob Bowlsby, sources said.

There was a fear among some members that Bowlsby would simply follow the wishes of Texas, which has been outspoken in keeping the Big 12 at 10 members, in large part, because of scheduling ease and to avoid a conference title game in football.

Texas athletic director Deloss Dodds and football coach Mack Brown have been outspoken that an upset in a football title game could derail a national title bid by the conference.

Critics of that argument point to the SEC and say its title game hasn't derailed any national title bids recently. Those critics also credit the divisions in the SEC for helping to keep the best teams from facing each other every year in league play, thus enhancing the chances of national title bids in that league.

Bowlsby stepped out a bit at the NCAA Convention in Grapevine, Texas, last week, telling reporters the Big 12 could be "proactive" in realignment. But Bowlsby was quick to follow up that he has seen no empirical evidence that bigger is necessarily better when it comes to conference makeup.

Bowlsby has also said he'd like the NCAA to consider allowing conferences with less than 12 members to have the right to break into divisions and have a league title game if they choose.

Certain to be involved in the Big 12's discussion of potential expansion will be the possibility of more schools in the Atlantic Coast Conference leaving the ACC in the wake of Maryland's decision to bolt for the Big Ten.

Multiple sources in the Big 12 told Orangebloods.com on Wednesday the Big Ten has tried to gauge the interest of Georgia Tech, North Carolina and Virginia about possibly joining Maryland in the Big Ten. But the sources said those schools have indicated to the Big Ten thanks but no thanks - for now.

Some speculate those schools are waiting to see what happens with the legal battle going on between the ACC and Maryland over the Terrapins' $52 million exit fee. Maryland's attorney general filed a countersuit last week seeking $157 million in damages (triple the amount of the exit fee) for antitrust violations by the ACC and seeking to have the ACC's lawsuit moved from Greensboro, N.C., to the state of Maryland.

Big 12 sources said they believe Bowlsby's attention was officially grabbed in December when Warchant.com, the Florida State site on the Yahoo!/Rivals.com network, reported the Seminoles had reached out to the Big Ten about possible membership.

The Big Ten, however, requires its members to be in the American Association of Universities, which represent the top research institutions in the country. Florida State is not an AAU school.

Sensing that one of the biggest potential prizes in realignment might be looking around, the Big 12 under Bowlsby appears ready now to talk about some kind of consensus regarding who or what would make sense if the Big 12 was to grow beyond 10.

"We can't continue to monitor things," one high-ranking source at a Big 12 school said Wednesday. "If you monitor, you get passed by. We have to have our own game plan so we aren't reacting any longer.

"We may decide 10 is the best option no matter what. But I think we have to talk about every possible scenario as a league."

That sentiment was shared by three other officials at different Big 12 schools Wednesday.
Those sources said it's doubtful the Big 12 reaches a decision to take action on expansion in the meetings in Dallas. But contingency plans could certainly be made.

A pressing question, according to sources, will be how many schools could be added to the Big 12 before per-school revenue starts to drop. Right now, Big 12 schools are projected to earn roughly $28 million per school starting in 2014 from TV revenue that includes the new Sugar Bowl TV contract with the SEC.

According to sources in the Big 12, there would be wide interest in Florida State if FSU became serious about joining the Big 12.

"If it doesn't make sense to Florida State, then this is all a moot point," one Big 12 source said.

Warchant.com has reported, according to sources, that if Florida State was ever to leave the ACC it would want as many regional partners as possible in its new league.

The Big 12 knows all too well about wanting regional partners when another league attempts a takeover.

Larry Scott, commissioner of the then-Pac-10, attempted to lure Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Colorado to form a 16-team superconference in June of 2010. And Scott nearly pulled it off. But Texas A&M balked, showing more interest in the SEC.

Would the Big 12 be so bold as to grow to 16 by attempting to lure six schools out of the ACC, beating the Pac-12, Big Ten and SEC to superconference status?

That idea is appealing to at least two schools in the Big 12, who believe such a move would ensure the viability of the Big 12 beyond its current grant of rights, which lock the league together through 2025. Those sources believe the Big Ten shopping around the ACC for expansion targets should be a call to action for the Big 12.

"You have to look long-term at a situation like this," said one source at a Big 12 school. "What ensures the league endures for the next 25 or 50 years? We can't get caught up in the next 10 to 15 years. We are talking about seismic shifts that will define the next 100 years."

So who and what would make sense for the Big 12? Is a football power like Florida State serious about looking around regardless of whether another ACC school decides to bolt for the Big Ten?

If the Seminoles, who voted against increasing the exit fees in the ACC from $20 million to $50 million last September, are serious about looking around, then three schools in the Big 12 believe the league had better do more than talk philosophically about expansion during its two-day meetings in Dallas next week.

The league better formulate a visionary, "proactive" plan that involves Florida State, the sources said.

If schools such as Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech could be persuaded to join the Big 12 while having each other as regional partners, the league would be at 14.

At that point, the ACC would be completely destabilized and a school such as North Carolina, where Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany received his undergraduate and law degrees, might consider jumping to the Big Ten, sources speculated.

Can anyone picture that? North Carolina, in the heart of Tobacco Road, in the Big Ten?

Half the ACC in the Big 12?

Would the SEC step in and possibly shelve its unwritten rule barring the addition of any schools from states in which the SEC already has members?

Would superconferences finally be upon us in college athletics?

Speculation of more seismic realignment in college athletics, whether it happens sooner or later, is definitely building.

And even a "philosophical" discussion of expansion by Big 12 athletic directors in Dallas next Monday and Tuesday won't do anything to quiet that speculation.

Stay tuned.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1463673

[SM#24]

I think UVa, Ga Tech, UNC, Fla St have nothing to worry about as I believe other (better $$) conferences will snap them up; or they may decide to stick it out together in the ACC, although I really doubt that and don't know why they would. I think it's a question of how many of BC, NC St, Miami, Clemson, Duke, Va Tech move on; they've all been bandied about for the B1G, SEC and B12. You could easily add Louisville, Syr and Pitt to the latter group.

The one thing I'm sure of is that Wake Forest is not going to any of the Big 4 onferences.

Let's say it's a total raid where the B1G goes to at least 16 grabbing UVa and Ga Tech, and then the SEC grabs UNC & Duke and B12 grabs Fla St, NC St, Miami, Clemson/Va Tech. You're now left with six of Clemson/Va Tech, WF, BC, Louisville, Syr, Pitt.
Presumably this would lead to invites to UConn, UC, SFla and then who ? We're back at the old Big East essentially.

[coasterville95]

True, and adding those 3 get them to 9, throw in Temple and UMass (football aspirations) gets them to 11, they could pick up one more Big East wannabe.

Then if the Catholic 7 can convine the other not-yet-played-a-single-Big-East-Game wannabees that they are better off sticking with their old conference, then voila, the problem solves itself. They are the only 7 left in the Big East - no exit fees, no wait period, they keep all the NCAA credits for themselves and UC, UConn, USF, they get to keep the name, they get to keep MSG, they send out the invites to us and 4 others, and BANG this deal is in place! They might even get exit fees out of UC, UConn, USF, and Temple!

Yes, I know that would take a LOT of things to go right, but there you go.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Big 10 expansion talks ongoing:

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/blogging-the-buckeyes/2013/01/gee-to-athletic-council-big-ten-expansion-talks-ongoing.html


Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee told the school’s Athletic Council in December that discussions about further expansion for the Big Ten conference are “ongoing.”

In November, the league announced the addition of Maryland from the Atlantic Coast Conference and Rutgers from the Big East. Nebraska joined the Big Ten for the 2011-12 school year after leaving the Big 12.

It doesn’t appear that the Big Ten is necessarily content to stay at 14 members. According to the minutes of the Dec. 5 Athletic Council meeting obtained by the Dispatch, Gee said “there has been ongoing discussion” about expansion and “believes there is movement towards three or four super conferences that are made up of 16-20 teams.”

[xudash]

Big 10 expansion talks ongoing:

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/blogging-the-buckeyes/2013/01/gee-to-athletic-council-big-ten-expansion-talks-ongoing.html

Going to 20 would save programs like UC and Wake. Going to 16 and holding there would doom certain former "big shot" programs.

We've all come to the conclusion, more or less, that the pickings for the PAC12 are slim, for purposes of that conference making it to even 16 members. So it will be interesting to see how all this turns out.

Looking at the big picture, it has to be fact that the drivers in all this are the B1G, SEC, PAC12 and Big12, more or less in that order.

IF this is about continuing to drive football through those 4 primary conferences, then those conferences will first and foremost be looking to enhance themselves with the right additions for each of them in order to increase their economic value - the B1G and the SEC are best positioned for doing that - and overall brand: competitive programs, strong academic profiles, etc. IMO, this scenario suggests topping off at 16 each, again, assuming the PAC12 can make that work for them.

If this is about being more inclusive (ha!) and getting to a more balanced structure geographically and every way else, 4 truly regional football conferences could break completely from the NCAA, going to 20 teams per regional conference (i.e. the basketball programs and other Olympic sports of each of these schools would remain in the NCAA and in their respective conferences, as they exist today) . The regular season is kept relevant as any given program strives to come out on top of the 10 team division in which they reside - eight teams play for a super conference championship, which fills the slots for the 4 game play-off format. The play-off then runs from that.

I'LL STATE IT AGAIN - - ALL THIS REALIGNMENT ACTIVITY HAS BEEN A BLESSING FOR XAVIER UNIVERSITY AND ITS BASKETBALL PROGRAM.

[MHettel]

Big 10 expansion talks ongoing:

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/blogging-the-buckeyes/2013/01/gee-to-athletic-council-big-ten-expansion-talks-ongoing.html

It's been headed to this since the whole thing started. 4 "superconferences" of 16 teams is kind of mathmatically ideal. Each conference has 2 8-team divisions. Division winners play each other in conference championship games. The 4 winners of those games move into the 4 game playoff. One overall winner. The 4 teams that lost the conference championship games play each other in a set of 2 bowl games which are reserved for this.

This seemed where it was all headed a few years back when the PAC10 was trying to lure Texas and Oklahoma to the West. The main sticking point now is how you can get the PAC12 to be the PAC 16. Possibly Boise and SDSU could get them to 14. There WILL be teams left out who were previously "in" (Wake, BC, Duke, UC, UConn, etc....)

[MHettel]

Going to 20 would save programs like UC and Wake. Going to 16 and holding there would doom certain former "big shot" programs.

We've all come to the conclusion, more or less, that the pickings for the PAC12 are slim, for purposes of that conference making it to even 16 members. So it will be interesting to see how all this turns out.

Looking at the big picture, it has to be fact that the drivers in all this are the B1G, SEC, PAC12 and Big12, more or less in that order.

IF this is about continuing to drive football through those 4 primary conferences, then those conferences will first and foremost be looking to enhance themselves with the right additions for each of them in order to increase their economic value - the B1G and the SEC are best positioned for doing that - and overall brand: competitive programs, strong academic profiles, etc. IMO, this scenario suggests topping off at 16 each, again, assuming the PAC12 can make that work for them.

If this is about being more inclusive (ha!) and getting to a more balanced structure geographically and every way else, 4 truly regional football conferences could break completely from the NCAA, going to 20 teams per regional conference (i.e. the basketball programs and other Olympic sports of each of these schools would remain in the NCAA and in their respective conferences, as they exist today) . The regular season is kept relevant as any given program strives to come out on top of the 10 team division in which they reside - eight teams play for a super conference championship, which fills the slots for the 4 game play-off format. The play-off then runs from that.

I'LL STATE IT AGAIN - - ALL THIS REALIGNMENT ACTIVITY HAS BEEN A BLESSING FOR XAVIER UNIVERSITY AND ITS BASKETBALL PROGRAM.

I'm not a big fan of the prospect of football breaking off from the NCAA. I dont know if there would even BE an NCAA without football. How would they fund it? They use the football revenue to fund the NCAA costs associated with the other olympic sports, except for Mens BBall which could likely fund itself, but it cant fund all the rest of the programs too.

And honestly, think about all the rules the NCAA has that are needed. You cant pay players becasue the NCAA says so. The NCAA set the scholarship limits. The NCAA defines the eligibility criteria. Think of a world where football players on campus are NOT part of the NCAA and maybe they are getting paid, or possibly have endorsement deals, and maybe schools can just give them extra money beyond their scholarship amounts. And also on that campus are BBall players that are playing by the existing set of NCAA rules. If you start talking about "breaking away" from the NCAA, then you must also assume a drastically different set of rules....otherwise, what would be the point of breaking away?

[paulxu]

Current big 6 conference members 68; plus ND and maybe Boise (?) means 70 teams reducing to 64.
If the 4 conferences left don't include ACC and Big East, their 20 teams have to go somewhere or be left out in the cold:

SEC 14; adds Duke and UNC (although Duke's stadium only seats 33,000?) = 16

Big 10: adds Ga. Tech and Maryland = 14; maybe adds ND and Rutgers = 16

Big 12: adds Louisville, Va Tech, Clemson, Florida St, Virginia (?), and Miami (?) =16

Pac 12: adds Boise State and San Deigo St (?) = 14

So, the Pac 12 needs 2 more schools, and there are a bunch of BE/ACC schools left out, none of which make sense to add to the Pac 12:

BC, NC State (!), Wake, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, South Florida, Syracuse and Temple. (I'm ignoring recent BE additions).

The Big 12 and Big 10 may shuffle a few of their noted additions, but how do you get the Pac 12 to 16 teams?

Decided to re-copy my post from last summer so I could keep track of the shuffle. Bolded moves already happened.
Lot of talk of Virginia to Big10, but that just improves Go's chances for the Big12.
And anyone going past 16, to 18 or 20, really scrambles the board.

[xudash]

Decided to re-copy my post from last summer so I could keep track of the shuffle. Bolded moves already happened.
Lot of talk of Virginia to Big10, but that just improves Go's chances for the Big12.
And anyone going past 16, to 18 or 20, really scrambles the board.

Show-off.

[GoMuskies]

Well, this would be the best of all possible worlds for me: an ACC/Big XII alliance. The ACC is generally a much more attractive league to me as a Louisville fan than the Big XII. The ACC is filled with teams Louisville has played over the years in great locations. The Big XII has Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Baylor (for starters). But the Big XII also has a bunch of schools within driving distance of me. With an alliance, Louisville wouldn't have to actually be a part of this horses**t league but would get regularly scheduled games against Big XII teams. Beautiful.

Not liking the odds of it actually happening, of course.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21614091/report-big-12-looking-to-partner-up-with-acc-two-other-leagues

[paulxu]

Show-off.

Hey, all I did was take what you wrote and laid it out where I could see (follow) it!

Jimmy's Yoda reviews today/tomorrow's meetings:

http://tuxedoyoda.blogspot.com/2013/01/2-quick-thoughts-on-accbig-12.html

[waggy]

So let me get this straight, Bob Bowlsby and possibly other high level athletic conference officials, regularly converse about conference realignment with Yoda? In a tuxedo? Yeah, OK.

[paulxu]

Which is probably not a lot worse then guys on here with strange handles/avatars who claim to "have sources" inside our school who told them exactly what went down with....Lyons, Dez, Fr Graham, Bobinski, etc.,etc...when you think about it.

I assume this Yoda guy knows his stuff because Jimmy2Times told me so.

[waggy]

I assume this Yoda guy knows his stuff because Jimmy2Times told me so.

That's good enough for me!

You visit the site though, and it's really hard to take it seriously.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Which is probably not a lot worse then guys on here with strange handles/avatars who claim to "have sources" inside our school who told them exactly what went down with....Lyons, Dez, Fr Graham, Bobinski, etc.,etc...when you think about it.

I assume this Yoda guy knows his stuff because Jimmy2Times told me so.

Haha. I only follow him because
1) He hates MHver3, Greg Swaim and TheDudeofWV for "Making shit up" . He even went so far as to block them
2) He stated a couple days in advance that his Austin source had Maryland and Rutgers in deep negotiations with B1G. Everyone ridiculed him and then it came to fruition
3) He rarely updates with realignment info from 'his Austin source'.
4) He's always on top of links regarding conference re-alignment

Granted he can be angry politically and so on making it hard to bear sometimes, but he's been more honest and forthright with what he does and doesn't know than the other goons

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Anyone else see this?

"Virginia drops Penn State next year, adds Oregon"

http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/virginia-drops-penn-state-2013-schedule

With all the rumors going around of Virginia joining the B1G, maybe this isn't just a coincidence?

[_LH]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21621664/big-12-considers-what-big-ten-sec-might-do-next-in-expansion

UCONN has to be very worried that the B12 and ACC will stand pat. The C7's best move would to go to 10 teams initially, C7 plus XU, Butler and UCONN and tell UCONN to park football in the MAC. UD, SLU and Creighton aren't going anywhere and will be there if the need arises.

[DC Muskie]

Anyone else see this?

"Virginia drops Penn State next year, adds Oregon"

http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/virginia-drops-penn-state-2013-schedule

With all the rumors going around of Virginia joining the B1G, maybe this isn't just a coincidence?

UVA wouldn't play in the Big 10 next year anyway.

[JTG]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21621664/big-12-considers-what-big-ten-sec-might-do-next-in-expansion

UCONN has to be very worried that the B12 and ACC will stand pat. The C7's best move would to go to 10 teams initially, C7 plus XU, Butler and UCONN and tell UCONN to park football in the MAC. UD, SLU and Creighton aren't going anywhere and will be there if the need arises.

Interesting...but does the C7 really want to go down the football no football road again ? UCONN is never going to be a Bigtime football program.

[_LH]

Interesting...but does the C7 really want to go down the football no football road again ? UCONN is never going to be a Bigtime football program.

I can't imagine they would intertain the thought for anyone but UCONN. There is a long history there between the C7 and UCONN and both would be okay if UCONN wanted to move leagues in a few years.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

From Tuxedo Yoda:

Brett McMurphy of ESPN Stated the following:

"B1G is the key. If they stay at 14, others won't expand. If B1G adds 2, then SEC adds 2 and then B12 also grows"


"The most likely realignment scenario involves the Big Ten moving to 16 — sources tell Sporting News it's not if, but when — and the Big 12 setting its sights adding teams, perhaps Florida State and Clemson"

--http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-01-31/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-conference-title-game-expansion-influence


Then you add Ohio State's Presidents comments about expanding. Sure looks like things are moving in that direction

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Now the Michigan AD is hinting at expansion to 18-20 teams
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/76573/more-expansion-looms-over-ad-decisions


“Based on the last three years I’ve been in this business, you’d be crazy not to think about it," Michigan athletic director Dave Brandon said. "But it’s hard to model anything because you don’t know what to model. The minute you get yourself convinced that you’re going to go from 14 to 16, for all you know you’re going to 18, and a lot of people think the ultimate landing place is 20. Who knows?"

[xudash]

At this point, I would prefer to see the additional expansion, because it will mean the disintegration of the ACC as a premier basketball conference. In essence, football will have wiped out both the BE and ACC as conference competitors to the conference that will represent a step up for Xavier.

Without going back to Paul's breakdown - off the top of my head - 2 + 2 + 6 equals 10 teams required to fill those three Big4 conferences to 16 each, assuming the B12 actually goes fullboat to 16.

Lumping in UCONN and UC with the ACC 14 - 13; Maryland's gone already - presently provides 15 schools from which to choose for expansion. The 5 that will be left over are going to look a lot like BC, Wake, UC, etc. than anything else. For that matter, given the choices, lump UCONN in that group as well. That would make UCONN and UC the anchor tenants of the ACC Mall. The ACC would end up with Temple and perhaps Memphis as well, but, especially with UNC and Duke gone, it will be a virtually unrecognizable shadow of its former self.

Swofford went for a business model that attempted to match the SEC, and he had his face chewed off attempting it. In the process, he wrecked one of the most storied basketball conferences ever known, and I'm not a loving fan of the ACC by any means; just calling it in reality.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

There's more Dash:

Iowa AD(on expansion):

You make your decision based on today," Iowa's Gary Barta said. "And today, we have that many teams. We can’t worry about something that’s not established yet. I don’t know if and when there will be more teams. Right now, we’re going to make decisions based on the additions of Rutgers and Maryland, and we’re going to make them with the information we have, consistent with our principles."

Northwestern AD:
"It’s hard to predict the future," added Northwestern's Jim Phillips. "No one would have predicted we’d be at this place we’re at right now. I don’t think you can get polarized by the what-ifs or the potential of what might be and lose sight of where you’re at."

[xudash]

Do you absorb two and then do a status check?

Do you run the incremental models (financials) and determine that +2 more is the way to go and get it done sooner than later?

Is everyone waiting around for the attorneys to settle the matter of $50mm for Maryland?

It's Friday at 11:55 a.m.: does Dayton still suck?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Do you absorb two and then do a status check?

Do you run the incremental models (financials) and determine that +2 more is the way to go and get it done sooner than later?

Is everyone waiting around for the attorneys to settle the matter of $50mm for Maryland?

It's Friday at 11:55 a.m.: does Dayton still suck?

As for your Dayton question, scientists have confirmed that they do indeed suck

I think you go with 2 initially UNLESS you have 4 quality teams interested. Because you know the SEC and Big12 are coming in as well. You want to make sure, if they do indeed make the first move, that you get the best possible teams for your conference

[GoMuskies]

You know what would be REALLY interesting? If the Big Ten is targeting two Big XII teams to get to 16. That would stir some shit up.

[Pluto]

You know what would be REALLY interesting? If the Big Ten is targeting two Big XII teams to get to 16. That would stir some shit up.

It would if they didn't sign over their Grant of Rights to the conference

[GoMuskies]

It would if they didn't sign over their Grant of Rights to the conference

If someone wants to leave, the grant of rights won't stop them. It's just a new form of exit fee, and those haven't stopped anyone from doing anything.

[LA Muskie]

If someone wants to leave, the grant of rights won't stop them. It's just a new form of exit fee, and those haven't stopped anyone from doing anything.
Similar concept but a somewhat different beast in that it introduces a new negotiating partner. With exit fees you just negotiated with the conference. With the GOR you have to add the broadcasters into the mix. If the broadcaster is the same, then they would probably facilitate it. But if they are competitors, I tend to doubt you'd see it absent a huge payout.

So yes and no. Similar, but different. Or, more practically, either easy or really expensive. Depending on the context.

[GoMuskies]

Of course it's not the same. But people thinking it means Big XII teams are completely off limits are nuts.

[LA Muskie]

Of course it's not the same. But people thinking it means Big XII teams are completely off limits are nuts.
Yes. Yes they are. The one thing everyone should acknowledge in all of this is that (i) there are no real rules; and (ii) no one knows nothin. Well, except that MHVER3 guy from WV of course...

[bleedXblue]

Make it stop already.

TV is ruining the college sports landscape

These so called presdents who are the leaders of academic institutions should be spending their time trying to figure out how to educate the youth of this country so that its more affordable for all. Lets start to figure out how we can can become the leader of the free world in economic growth and development again. Lets start to figure out how we can improve the science and math skills of our students to get on a level playing field with China.

Instead were bullshi**ing around with this meaningless garbage.

Sorry, now I feel better....

[Tuxedo Yoda]

Of course it's not the same. But people thinking it means Big XII teams are completely off limits are nuts.

You really are wrong. It does mean the Big 12 is off limits.

#1 Even if you were right, and you aren't, the B1G still wouldn't raid the Big 12. The B1G, the Pac 12 and the Big 12 all rely on a GOR as the foundation of their massive TV deals. The last thing any of those groups want to do is to make a GOR seem vulnerable. Sure, it seems like no one would ever want to leave the B1G right now.....but with the way things are changing relative to cable TV and how games could eventually be shown a la carte on the internet, who knows what could change in 5 years. How long will Ohio State & Michigan really be content to subsidize the Indiana athletics department by bringing in the same football TV revenue?

#2 I am not an attorney but several have explained the difference between an exit fee and a GOR to me. The exit fee falls under the realm of contract law. If you promise to perform in one conference and break that contract and leave, that conference is entitled to whatever damages are caused by your exit. This is why the ACC is screwed.....it is hard to say Maryland's exit caused you very much damage, if any, when the day your bring in Louisville, several league ADs say your conference has gotten stronger and your TV deal stays exactly the same. The GOR is different. We are now out of the realm of contract law and in to property law. Texas has sold its Tier 1 & Tier 2 tv rights to the Big 12. It no longer owns them. Texas could leave for the B1G but the B1G would be legally bound to pay the Big 12 the TV money share for Texas.

Look.....I know nothing is absolute. It would be a b**ch to sue Texas (a public university) in a court in Austin over a GOR and expect to win. But maybe you could. You would have a much better chance than with an exit fee. The fact that it is a much bigger hurdle than an exit fee is enough. Also, the ACC knows that a GOR is (or is almost) ironclad. It has tried, and failed, several times recently to get its members to sign one. The ACC football schools won't.....because they want the option of leaving.

[LA Muskie]

You really are wrong. It does mean the Big 12 is off limits.
Actually no. You really are wrong. Everything is negotiable. Everything. The GOR may make the negotiations more complex, or it might make the settlement more expensive. But nothing is off the table.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Actually no. You really are wrong. Everything is negotiable. Everything. The GOR may make the negotiations more complex, or it might make the settlement more expensive. But nothing is off the table.

Technically you have a point. But on the scale of likelihood I highly doubt anyone is getting out of that GoR

[GoMuskies]

Taking nothing away from the flawed legal argument, it's good to have a celebrity in the house.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Agreed. Hopefully its the real Tuxedo Yoda

Been following you via twitter since you called the Maryland/Rutgers move 2 days before anyone else.

[LA Muskie]

Technically you have a point. But on the scale of likelihood I highly doubt anyone is getting out of that GoR

Unless someone with a lot of money wants to put theirs where their mouth is. That's not entirely unprecedented in all this realignment.

[MCXU]

Agreed. Hopefully its the real Tuxedo Yoda

Been following you via twitter since you called the Maryland/Rutgers move 2 days before anyone else.

I know how to find out if it's really him.

"THE STARS ARE BRIGHT, AND BIG AT NIGHT"

[RealDeal]

These negotiations have become obtuse and pedantic. If someone knows who to choke out or taser to get things moving PM me the address and I will handle it.

[Tuxedo Yoda]

Taking nothing away from the flawed legal argument, it's good to have a celebrity in the house.

I'll consider myself a celebrity when I actually get laid because of this persona......as for the legal argument, that is how it was explained to me by multiple attorneys.


Agreed. Hopefully its the real Tuxedo Yoda

Been following you via twitter since you called the Maryland/Rutgers move 2 days before anyone else.

Thanks JTT.....I try to only pass on info I believe is legit. To date, I have only been made to look like a huge fool once. A Miami fan, who had previously sent me correct info having to do with the Hurricanes, told me the Texas DC Manny Diaz had taken the FIU job (Miami was his hometown). An hour or so after I tweet that, Diaz announces he is staying at Texas. Since that has happened, I am back to reporting only what I get from my friend & trusted source connected with the University of Texas athletics department.

[LA Muskie]

I'll consider myself a celebrity when I actually get laid because of this persona......as for the legal argument, that is how it was explained to me by multiple attorneys.
I am an attorney. In fact, I'm an intellectual property attorney. I understand the GoR concept completely, because it is essentially a grant of IP rights. That said, you don't need to be an IP attorney to understand this fundamental point: Everything is negotiable. Even things nobody thinks would, should or could be negotiable. You don't need to be an attorney to know that.

[Tuxedo Yoda]

I am an attorney. In fact, I'm an intellectual property attorney. I understand the GoR concept completely, because it is essentially a grant of IP rights. That said, you don't need to be an IP attorney to understand this fundamental point: Everything is negotiable. Even things nobody thinks would, should or could be negotiable. You don't need to be an attorney to know that.

I think we can all agree that everything is negotiable and nothing is a legal certainty while we also acknowledge that a GOR is an exponentially greater barrier for leaving a conference than an exit fee.....and.....that the B12, the B1G and the Pac all have a vested interest in making sure GORs appear to be ironclad.

[LA Muskie]

I think we can all agree that everything is negotiable and nothing is a legal certainty while we also acknowledge that a GOR is an exponentially greater barrier for leaving a conference than an exit fee.....and.....that the B12, the B1G and the Pac all have a vested interest in making sure GORs appear to be ironclad.
I certainly agree that a GOR is a significantly greater barrier for leaving a conference than an exit fee. I'm not entirely sure I agree that the B1G and the Pac all have a vested interest in making sure GORs appear to be ironclad. Their interest is in making more money, and neither of those conferences are particularly concerned about getting raided. If there is a lot of money on the table, hypocrites are almost certainly sitting around it.

[paulxu]

The Dude chimes in:

http://www.sportsmancave.com/expansion-expose-big-10-bangs-the-war-drums/

[Masterofreality]

Trust me.

Mike Bobinski will be an AD of a Big 10 Conference school. The Atlanta market is a huge draw for the BTN.

[LA Muskie]

Trust me.

Mike Bobinski will be an AD of a Big 10 Conference school. The Atlanta market is a huge draw for the BTN.

Hard to imagine he didn't have the inside line on this before he took the job.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
UC president sent video description of projected $70M stadium improvement, holiday cards to ACC Presidents, Cincinnati Enquirer reports

UC must be getting antsy

[Masterofreality]

“@TuxedoYoda: Cincinnati is openly begging for an ACC invite: *

http://t.co/wh0PWVyX

Yeah, desperate trying to sell a 35,000 seat stadium that, in football terms, is equal to Rose Hill Gym.

HA!

[BMoreX]

Holiday cards? Really? Haha

[outsideobserver11]

Holiday cards? Really? Haha

I don't get why this is just now becoming news. If holiday cards were involved, then didn't they likely do this in December? Or was it the ever popular President's Day cards?

[BMoreX]

I don't get why this is just now becoming news. If holiday cards were involved, then didn't they likely do this in December? Or was it the ever popular President's Day cards?

Maybe Valentine's Day. :chin:

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I don't get why this is just now becoming news. If holiday cards were involved, then didn't they likely do this in December? Or was it the ever popular President's Day cards?

My guess is it has everything to do with our local media, particularly the Enquirer, being absolutely horrible and circling the drain financially.

[outsideobserver11]

Maybe Valentine's Day. :chin:

Asking the ACC "Pick us, we want to be your Valentine?"

[STL_XUfan]

I didn't think a school could formally pitch itself to another conference while they are still members of a conference? Isn't this is why everyone always denies offical talks until they formally withdraw from the conference. We all know they occur, i just figured for legal reasons you wouldn't want to publish that you (in an offical role) sent a marketing packet to another conference.

[GoMuskies]

I don't see any legal problem with pitching yourself to another conference while a member of a different conference. Unless there's something in their contract with another league.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Big 10 talk buzzing again. #UVA being mentioned often as likely to join. Georgia Tech still in the mix. #UNC, the big domino, has an offer.

[More Cowbell]

I don't see any legal problem with pitching yourself to another conference while a member of a different conference. Unless there's something in their contract with another league.

Cincinnati and UCONN were pretty public about trying to get into the ACC.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

LOTS of chatter out there about UNC, UVA, and GT all being invited to the B1G!

[paulxu]

LOTS of chatter out there about UNC, UVA, and GT all being invited to the B1G!

That sounds like they are leaving a spot for ND.

sUCks will get to the ACC in time. They don't need to lobby for it. They'll get an invite as soon as the B1G, SEC and Big 12 get through picking over the carcass.

[paulxu]

This is what the carcass would look like. Somewhere Go is letting a smirk come through in Kansas:

LandThieves‏@LandThieves

Dream scenario: B1G raids with Ga Tech/UVA/UNC, Va Tech/NC State to SEC #Big12 adds FSU/Miami/Clemson/Louisville

[SM#24]

UC should be pitching itself to the Big12. If the ACC gets raided, they're pretty much a lock to be invited to the ACC.

[BMoreX]

This is what the carcass would look like. Somewhere Go is letting a smirk come through in Kansas:

LandThieves‏@LandThieves

Dream scenario: B1G raids with Ga Tech/UVA/UNC, Va Tech/NC State to SEC #Big12 adds FSU/Miami/Clemson/Louisville

My dream scenario:

C7 add Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga (or Creighton if Zags are too far). Once everyone raids the ACC, Duke, Wake, and Notre Dame are stuck with a bunch of past Big East schools.

C7 adds those 3 along with one of SLU or Dayton.

Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Duke, Wake Forest
Xavier, Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Gonzaga/Creighton, SLU/Dayton

Totally unlikely.

[_LH]

My dream scenario:

C7 add Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga (or Creighton if Zags are too far). Once everyone raids the ACC, Duke, Wake, and Notre Dame are stuck with a bunch of past Big East schools.

C7 adds those 3 along with one of SLU or Dayton.

Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, Duke, Wake Forest
Xavier, Butler, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Gonzaga/Creighton, SLU/Dayton

Totally unlikely.

My dream scenario:

C7 adds XU, Butler and UCONN. UCONN puts football in the MAC. League stays at 10 for forseeable future.

B10 stands pat.

B12 adds BYU and Boise State

ACC stands pat.

UC is left holding the bag in crappy CUSA 2.0.

UD left holding the bag in the A10, playing second fiddle to VCU.

[outsideobserver11]

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Big 10 talk buzzing again. #UVA being mentioned often as likely to join. Georgia Tech still in the mix. #UNC, the big domino, has an offer.

There is so much varying info because many claim that UNC has had an open invitation for quite awhile now but don't have interest in going. While on a smaller level, they are to the ACC what Texas is to the Big 12 and like the power position. They aren't in the financial trouble of Maryland or Florida State either. UNC is the pin that holds that conference together. Today, some network tied people and not these twittertards are hinting at UVA and BC to the B1G, UC and UCONN to the ACC, and then things quieting down a bit. I'll see if I can find the articles again and link them.

It's crazy what 24 hours and can do in realignment talks throughout all of this though.

[DC Muskie]

What's going to happen when UC and UConn realize nobody wants their crappy football programs?

[Juice]

What's going to happen when UC and UConn realize nobody wants their crappy football programs?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6hB9NTYD0E&t=2m50s

[paulxu]

Recap of all the twitter guys except Yoda:

http://conferenceexpansion.com/2013/02/20/news-and-rumors-2-20-13/

[BMoreX]

Recap of all the twitter guys except Yoda:

http://conferenceexpansion.com/2013/02/20/news-and-rumors-2-20-13/

Haha that's crazy. The guy who runs that site occasionally posts on my Orioles/Ravens message board.

[BMoreX]

ESPN Matches NBC's Offer For Big East Football/Basketball TV Rights

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Closing-Bell/2013/02/21/Big-East.aspx

[BMoreX]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Big East deal w/ESPN is $10M for 2013-14 hoops only; $20M for 2014-20 for football/hoops; CBS also worth at least $2M/year in '14

Does this mean the C7 is out for 2013??

[waggy]

Does this mean the C7 is out for 2013??

Probably wrong but that looks to me like a split is coming early, and that the BE name goes to the football schools.

[BMoreX]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Big East deal w/ESPN is $10M for 2013-14 hoops only; $20M for 2014-20 for football/hoops; CBS also worth at least $2M/year in '14

Does this mean the C7 is out for 2013??

Full story says, maybe not.


The Big East's $10 million figure for the men's basketball season in 2013-14 is based on the seven Catholic schools remaining in the league next season, sources said. If those schools leave the Big East before next year, that figure would be reduced.

The seven Catholic basketball schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova -- are expected to leave the Big East and form a 10- to 12-team league, but not until 2014. Fox Sports is willing to pay the seven schools as much as $3 million annually, sources said.

ESPN president John Skipper recently told SI.com that he also believes Fox Sports will get the Catholic 7 deal, but Skipper said ESPN would be interested in sub-licensing some games.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...media-deal

[paulxu]

The Big East's new media rights deal is actually worth less per school than its current ESPN deal and six times less than what ESPN presented two years ago.

In 2011, ESPN offered a new nine-year deal to the Big East worth $1.17 billion or an average of $130 million annually. However, the Big East's presidents voted to turn down the deal that would have earned football members nearly $14 million a year.

I'm trying to imagine a BE college president explaining why he voted no on the $1.17 Billion to his board of trustees.

[Juice]

Probably wrong but that looks to me like a split is coming early, and that the BE name goes to the football schools.

I'm trying to conduct an unofficial poll here, but does anyone (on this board) even care about the Big East name?

I couldn't care less about it, especially if it means that XU will join the new conference sooner.

[coasterville95]

Considering that just about everybody realizes that Big East 2013 or Big East 2014 is nothing like, say Big East 2010, I'd say its time for an all new name. So, no, let the football schools keep it!

Particularly if they can say "We'll give you the name, if you give us MSG"

[Section 200]

4 schools voted no (Pitt, Rut, Georgetown, WV) in a 11-4 vote that needed to be 12-3 for passage. Commish recommended they take the deal. All the "no" votes left the conference. No one has to explain.

[LA Muskie]

I'm trying to conduct an unofficial poll here, but does anyone (on this board) even care about the Big East name?

I couldn't care less about it, especially if it means that XU will join the new conference sooner.
I don't care one bit. In fact I affirmatively prefer a new name. At this point I think the Big East name is synonymous with realignment carnage. Why build off that?

[_LH]

I'm trying to conduct an unofficial poll here, but does anyone (on this board) even care about the Big East name?

I couldn't care less about it, especially if it means that XU will join the new conference sooner.

Big East football has been a joke since Miami (FL) left for the ACC but Big East basketball has not lost too much in that time and its name has a lot of value. Since the C7 won't be playing football with the name, I think it has great value to them. I don't know how hard they should fight for it or what they would trade in order to get it but I think they should fight for it as it does have value.

I also would hate a bunch of CUSA schools that should have never been in the BE in the first place get to keep the name.

[X-band '01]

Big East and Miami football has been a joke since Miami (FL) left for the ACC but Big East basketball has not lost too much in that time and its name has a lot of value. Since the C7 won't be playing football with the name, I think it has great value to them. I don't know how hard they should fight for it or what they would trade in order to get it but I think they should fight for it as it does have value.

I also would hate a bunch of CUSA schools that should have never been in the BE in the first place get to keep the name.

Fixed that for you LH.

[DC Muskie]

I'm trying to conduct an unofficial poll here, but does anyone (on this board) even care about the Big East name?

I couldn't care less about it, especially if it means that XU will join the new conference sooner.

Could care less.

[GoMuskies]

I'd prefer to keep the Big East name. It has always been (and remains) a premier basketball brand. But mostly I'm just assuming that any new name will be incredibly stupid.

[DC Muskie]

But mostly I'm just assuming that any new name will be incredibly stupid.

I have that concern as well. If they name it the "One Issue Voter Conference" then I would want the Big East name.

[BMoreX]

I'd also prefer to keep it. But, I won't be really upset if they don't get it.

It may come down to each group gets one: MSG or the name.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not entirely sure we want MSG. I mean, it sounds great, and would be one helluva trip....once. But do we really think a conference of 10-12 private schools that are not exactly geographically packed right around NYC are going to sell out MSG every year? We'd do a whole lot better than the A-10 in AC (or the A-10 is likely to do in Brooklyn this year), but I think there would be plenty of good seats available for a tournament in MSG. I'm okay with a smaller venue somewhere else, personally. I imagine the Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Villanova and Seton Hall folks would have a harder time giving that up, though.

[paulxu]

The ACC has used Greensboro as a site for a long time, mixing it up with Atlanta and Charlotte, and even threw in a Tampa and DC.
Greensboro worked as the 4 NC schools could drive with no hotels needed. Same for Charlotte.

I could see the C7 ending up in a place like DC. Lots of stuff to do over the weekend even if your team gets knocked out early. Not quite as expensive as NY.

[danaandvictory]

I was under the impression that MSG had a veto on whatever the arrangement was. So the MSG contract may not be on the bargaining table in any real sense.

Ultimately, though, isn't the C7+ the only logical option for the Garden after this shakes out? The new Big East has even less connection to NYC (UConn would be the only nearby school) and it seems doubtful to me that the ACC would move the tournament to MSG every year given their Southeastern roots.

Maybe you end up with a deal where MSG alternates between the ACC and the C7+, with the ACC decamping to Greensboro or Atlanta in alternate years and the C7+ playing in Washington or Philadelphia those years.

[BMoreX]

I was under the impression that MSG had a veto on whatever the arrangement was. So the MSG contract may not be on the bargaining table in any real sense.

Ultimately, though, isn't the C7+ the only logical option for the Garden after this shakes out? The new Big East has even less connection to NYC (UConn would be the only nearby school) and it seems doubtful to me that the ACC would move the tournament to MSG every year given their Southeastern roots.

Maybe you end up with a deal where MSG alternates between the ACC and the C7+, with the ACC decamping to Greensboro or Atlanta in alternate years and the C7+ playing in Washington or Philadelphia those years.

You are right that MSG has a veto. However, there's just no way that they'll want a tournament with the likes of Houston, SMU, and Tulane.

I think what you wrote in bold is probably what MSG is hoping for. The C7 schools desperately want to keep MSG. From what I've read on various message boards, some think keeping the tournament there is more important than the name.

I would be fine with your scenario about rotating the tournament between DC and NYC.

[GoMuskies]

I have seen some ACC fans talking about just such a scenario, and I think it makes some sense. There's no way the ACC wants to be in NYC every year, and MSG probably doesn't want to be stuck with the C7 every year either.

[xudash]

You are right that MSG has a veto. However, there's just no way that they'll want a tournament with the likes of Houston, SMU, and Tulane.

I think what you wrote in bold is probably what MSG is hoping for. The C7 schools desperately want to keep MSG. From what I've read on various message boards, some think keeping the tournament there is more important than the name.

I would be fine with your scenario about rotating the tournament between DC and NYC.

And in our non-MSG years we take the tournament out towards the western schools: Chicago or Indy perhaps.

[coasterville95]

Remember that premature article back in December that said the whole thing was a done deal? That article had lots of specifics, and one of them was Conseco Fieldhouse for the tournament. But that would mean tossing BIG out. Don't see that happening.

[LA Muskie]

I didn't think a school could formally pitch itself to another conference while they are still members of a conference? Isn't this is why everyone always denies offical talks until they formally withdraw from the conference. We all know they occur, i just figured for legal reasons you wouldn't want to publish that you (in an offical role) sent a marketing packet to another conference.

It's not that you can't. It's that you don't want to burn bridges and alienate your colleagues because you might still be having dinner with them. In this situation though there is no one for UC and UConn to worry about offending. It's not like quietly interviewing for a job. It's like working at a company that is liquidating and doing whatever you can -- and using every contact you have -- to try to find a new job.

[LA Muskie]

I could not care less about MSG. Don't get me wrong - I'm fine with it. But of not there, there are a ton of great places to hold a conference tourney.

Essentially I don't think it would be worth the C7 "paying" much for either the Big East name or the MSG contract. Either or both would be fine, but I'd also be just as happy seeing the new conference forge its own, new path.

[SM#24]

I think you may see MSG not lock into any conference but rather rotate amongst ACC, B1G (Rutgers), C7, etc. and also mix in the NCAA tourney in some years.

[JTG]

And in our non-MSG years we take the tournament out towards the western schools: Chicago or Indy perhaps.

Indy is definitely way more affordable, and centrally located. And Indy only has the BIG on a rotating basis with Chicago.

[DoubleD86]

I would love for the tournament in Indianapolis and it has nothing (read: everything) to do with the fact that I live in Indianapolis.

[paulxu]

Indy is definitely way more affordable, and centrally located. And Indy only has the BIG on a rotating basis with Chicago.

That would work if we got to 12 teams. One year in Indy, one in DC.

[GoMuskies]

When are we moving the tournament to Pittsburgh? Way better than NYC anyway.

[LA Muskie]

When are we moving the tournament to Pittsburgh? Way better than NYC anyway.
I don't often laugh out loud based on what I read on message boards. And I admit it even more rarely. But this cracked me up. Public reps to match the official one!

[coasterville95]

Thought I would put this post here as it relates more to UC than it does XU, though it has strong XU content as well.

Channel 12 aired the "extended cut" of the Day with Coach Mack special last night. (OK, they added a little bit more of the team practice and a snippet here and there.)

But, that's not why I am posting this here, this is more pretaining to the panel discussion they had on all things confeence realignment before the "Day with Coach Mack" special.

It should be noted that they were very careful to use the word "Reportedly" -once- as a disclaimer. Then went on to talk about things as if it is a done deal.

On the XU side - of course good vibes all around, primarily the TV revenue share and the recruiting. They said its not that we were bad at recruiting, it was just that other schools could use our conference against us. "You want to play for Xavier, really? You say you want to be in the NBA right? Would you rather play for the Atlantic 10 or the Big East?"

On the UC side - and here is where it gets interesting. First, I don't understand the lazy media shorthand that XU and UC are switching places re: conferences. IF that were true, they would be saying UC is joining the A10. Now, outside of some hearty laughter from some posters on these forums, they don't really ft the profile, what with Tuberville and the football pogram. No one really wants to say that once Rutgers and Lousiville leave, that UC will really be playing the same type teams they played in C-USA + UConn and USF. Outside of Memphis and UConn, on the basketball side, that may be worse than the A10.

The panel admitted that thee is not much Tuberville or Cronin can do about it, this is above their pay grade. They also said UC had better start on the facilities upgrades (which they have little money for), and that 5th/3rd Arena also needs a major renovation. Ultimately football did win out for the funding. But, all in all they said UC has to do everything to make themselves more attrractive, and the capacity of Nippert and the attendance at basketball games isn't going to cut it. They said this is all on Whit and Ono to work on.

The frightening part - they said this may cause Cronin to go job hunting. Yes, they did acknowledge the strong alma-mater/dream job connection, and that can't be discounted, but they said if your career aspiration is to be a top level coach, and your school has made it clear basketball isn't getting any much needed improvements, and you are relegated back to a low tier conference, you may be convinced to try for greener pastures. (I could almost hear the UC fans cheer when they said Cronin might leave, that may help soften the blow :) ) But, yeah, the general take from the sports talking heads in the area is that XU is the clear winner, and UC is getting shafted in all this.

No conveesation about UD, sorry, you guys weren't even worth a mention.

BUT there was conversation about NKU. They said NKU should absolutely market themselves to the A10. Selling point: you can maintain the Cincinnati viewing market. Said the Atlantic Sun was a good conference of convenience and helped them get started by prepackagng their whole frst year schedules for them. But Atlantic Sun does not have a TV deal, whereas the A10 would get them some TV exposure and revenue. (That said, if I'm the A10 is the CIncinnati market (particularly if they still have Dayton) worth taking a chance on a relative unknown newcomer?)

[Masterofreality]

Doesn't scare me that YTG would go job hunting. Let him go. I'm sick of that little twit.

If SucKS winds up in this glorified Conference South, they'll suck no matter who the coach is and, good luck getting a good guy to come there.

[Masterofreality]

Wow. If this is true, it would F up SucKS league even more....and not help them go to the ACC.

From Tuxedo Yoda:

Fox Sports is the straw that stirs the realignment drink

Fox Sports has already had a role in shaking up college sports. From the role with the Catholic 7 to prodding the B1G to go after Maryland and Rutgers, Fox wants a bigger piece of the pie and it wants to take it from ESPN. Fox has really been lighting the fire under the Big 12 to go after certain ACC properties. While heavily invested in the Big 12, Pac 12 and the B1G, Fox has no financial relationship with the ACC, and this makes the ACC vulnerable. This raid is far from a certainty, however. It is no secret that the Big 12 would love the Florida exposure that would come with FSU and Miami, but both have made it clear that the Big 12 is an option of last resort and would be made only out of desperation. If the B1G and/or the SEC doesn't raid the ACC first this off-season, the Big 12 looks to go into the college football playoffs with 10 members. Despite the mantra you hear repeated from Bowlsby & DeLoss Dodds, no one affiliated with the Big 12, especially Fox, wants this to happen.

It won't happen. Fox wants the Big 12 in Florida.

I have been told that Fox has made it clear to the Big 12 that it is willing to tweak its Tier 2 contract so that the per team payout would stay the same if the Big 12 adds UCF and USF. These are two large schools in two solid Florida markets with boatloads of alumni in the ever-so-valuable South Florida TV market. This deal would involve Fox having the TV rights for the Big 12 championship game. This does a lot for the Big 12:

- Allows for a conference championship game
- Gets some East Coast time zone friends for WVU
- Gets everyone in the conference recruiting exposure in Florida
- Creates additional stability for the long term
- Creates a new possibility that the GOR will be extended when the TV deals are amended.

The benefits for UCF and USF are enormous. They'll have signed and faxed over the legal documentation before Bowlsby is halfway through the invite on his initial call. The interesting aspect of all of this is how damaging this could be for FSU. Right now, FSU is a distant second in the state in regards to TV revenue. The financial chasm between FSU and UF will only get much worse when the SEC network kicks off. As it stands, the ACC had to do some creative accounting and to find a boatload of cash just to keep FSU's athletics department from running in the red last year. How many years can FSU expect that to happen? Even more troubling, if/when the Big 12 gets impatient and pulls the trigger on UCF and USF, FSU will then be fourth in the state in TV revenue, with no hope of improving (short of ND joining the ACC as a full member). It is hard for FSU fans to imagine being overtaken by UCF and USF on the field, but how many decades of having less resources than 3 other state schools can FSU survive? How long before in-state high school players start to see which conferences are putting the most schools into the college football playoffs? How many years of the Big 12 playing the SEC in the Sugar Bowl will go by before the ACC's ass-backwards arrangement with the Orange Bowl will be a joke among elite recruits?

I've been told that FSU has made its choice. Short of the ACC being raided into oblivion, the Noles aren't coming to the Big 12. The Noles are siding with tradition. The Noles are siding with mysterious and intangible academic benefits. The Noles are siding on convenience.....and it will cost them.


Posted by TuxedoYoda at 6:25 AM

[GoMuskies]

West Virginia's disastrous year in the Big XII (financially and athletically) has been a lifesaver for the ACC. You can be sure that's playing a major part in FSU's reluctance to go down the same path at this point.

[LA Muskie]

The Big XII and Fox don't want UCF or USF. It's all a ploy to force the hands of FSU and Miami.

[Masterofreality]

West Virginia's disastrous year in the Big XII (financially and athletically) has been a lifesaver for the ACC. You can be sure that's playing a major part in FSU's reluctance to go down the same path at this point.

This is very true.

Luck at WVa is already complaining about al of the travel and other issues that have come their way. This may truly slow down schools like North Carolina and GTech from moving out of the ACC to the B1G. The grass may not really be greener.

It certainly will be for Xavier and the Big East, however. It will for sure be tougher to win, but much better overall for the institution.

[Masterofreality]

Now, THIS is an awful name for a League-

“@radioinsight: Sports DomainInsight: The remaining Big East football schools to rebrand as the "America 12" with domain registrations made by its lawfirm”

[GoMuskies]

Sounds a LOT like Conference USA.

I expect Teddy Bridgewater to hold all single-season passing records in that league for as long as it lasts.

[DC Muskie]

I guess the League Of Ordinary Football Programs is too long.

But LOOFP sounds like a perfect way to describe the league.

[BMoreX]

Now, THIS is an awful name for a League-

“@radioinsight: Sports DomainInsight: The remaining Big East football schools to rebrand as the "America 12" with domain registrations made by its lawfirm”

That really is awful. Just go back to the Metro.

[muskiefan82]

The League of Extraordinary Mediocrity.

Come join us and you too can be a LEMming.

[DC Muskie]

The League of Extraordinary Mediocrity.

Come join us and you too can be a LEMming.

Even better!

[xudash]

The We Twelve.

They can have The We Five's hit single for their theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_f16t1JGHo

The guitarist on the far left has to be in the YTG's family tree.

[RealDeal]

Can't wait until the first time someone posts "Are you telling me that (last place new Big East team) wouldn't win the A12?" Honestly it's one of those things that will never get old.

[Masterofreality]

Can't wait until the first time someone posts "Are you telling me that (last place new Big East team) wouldn't win the A12?" Honestly it's one of those things that will never get old.

Can YTG jump off one foot?

[BMoreX]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

"America 12 Conference" favorite to become new name for Big East, league sources told @espn. Not official; other names being considered

I mean seriously, that is a terrible conference name.

1. Add N and make it American. It's not good, but it's better than this.
2. Only 10 teams right now. Sure they'll add some, but they'll be right down to 10 again if the ACC gets nuked.
3. Reeks of CUSA

[DC Muskie]

Does someone own "Metro Conference?"

Why on earth are they not using that?

Or Big American Conference?

[BMoreX]

Does someone own "Metro Conference?"

Why on earth are they not using that?

Or Big American Conference?

No one owns Metro, from what I've read. Its trademark (or whatever you call it...I'm not a lawyer) has been free since '96. Even American Metro is better than the America 12. Are they going to nickname that the A12? The Atlantic 10 won't be too happy.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier to the Big East.

UC to the A-12.

Perfect.

[DC Muskie]

Are they going to nickname that the A12? The Atlantic 10 won't be too happy.

Good point. Yeah, Mick is going to love being in the A 12.

[SM#24]

A12 with an existing A10 reminds me of 7 Minute Abs

[GoMuskies]

There's a Big 10 with 12 teams and a Big 12 with 10 teams, so why not?

[SM#24]

Right now, the Pac12 is the only conference that gets a passing grade in math.

[xupuck10]

Conferences should just get away from having numbers in their names, just makes changes more confusing.

[paulxu]

There was a suggestion to call it the Big Metro Athletic Conference (BMAC), call it the Big Mac and do tie-ins with McDonalds.

That's actually not a bad idea.

[DC Muskie]

There was a suggestion to call it the Big Metro Athletic Conference (BMAC), call it the Big Mac and do tie-ins with McDonalds.

That's actually not a bad idea.

Not at all, sir not at all.

See Paul here can come up with a better conference name in about three minutes.

[GoMuskies]

Some of the marketing work for the new league was leaked today:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/cqq1jmg/murica_zpsf66348c6.jpg

[paulxu]

Can't you just see these guys sitting around.

"OK, we've got 10 teams. Let's call it the America conference...sounds important."

"Then all the TV people will shorten it to the A10."

"Well hell, that doesn't work, there's already one of those. How 'bout we call it the A12?"

"OK. Good idea."

Idiots.

[GoMuskies]

In fairness to them, they are trying to get to 12 so that they can have a title game. It's just that every time they think they have 12, two more teams leave.

[Masterofreality]

In fairness to them, they are trying to get to 12 so that they can have a title game. It's just that every time they think they have 12, two more teams leave.

Add Rhode Island and UMess.......oh....

[X-band '01]

America 12, huh?

I can't wait to hear what their football divisions will be called.

You know what would really be cool? 4 3-team divisions. We'll have a Red division, a White division and a Blue div - oh shit, C-USA already did that...

[muskiefan82]

America 12, huh?

I can't wait to hear what their football divisions will be called.

You know what would really be cool? 4 3-team divisions. We'll have a Red division, a White division and a Blue div - oh shit, C-USA already did that...

Then maybe North America, Central America, and South America. Oh wait, that would make it seem like there are teams from Brazil and Honduras too.

[GoMuskies]

$2.5 million seems to be the price America's 12 will extract from Notre Dame to allow them to join the ACC this summer.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9032153/big-east-seeking-least-25-million-notre-dame-fighting-irish-early-exit

[paulxu]

I don't know what thread to put this. It's probably been posted many times already.
But this crap column almost makes me puke; I think Cronin wrote it himself.
I'm assuming this Doc guy is a bearpussy supporter. He can bite me.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130308/COL03/303080075/Doc-UC-needs-get-out-America-12-

[GoMuskies]

Doc sure enjoys stirring the pot. What a toolbox.

[LA Muskie]

I'm trying to figure out what people don't like about threat column. Seems to me he put under a masthead what we've all been reveling in online.

[paulxu]

I'll tell you what I don't like about that column.
I don't like that it was AOK to add Tulane and Houston to increase your hoped for payout from TV for playing football, and now that the basketball schools are leaving you are crying in your beer.
I don't like that the power shift is supposedly "overnight" and the implication that Xavier sucked before, and now it's all of a sudden better. We have been playing better basketball, with better results than UC for the last decade.
I don't like it that he has to disparage the new conference by calling it the big priest. It's still the Big East idiot, it's just that your team isn't in it anymore.
I don't like that he indicates we didn't belong to a conference of respected academic institutions (St Louis? Richmond? are not respected?) but now all of a sudden we do.

I'm tired of listing these things I don't like about that column. Feel free to keep adding to the list.

[GoMuskies]

He doesn't really have a point. He's just stirring the pot. It's a completely pointless column. His dog could have written it (and probably done a better job).

[LA Muskie]

I'll tell you what I don't like about that column.
I don't like that it was AOK to add Tulane and Houston to increase your hoped for payout from TV for playing football, and now that the basketball schools are leaving you are crying in your beer.
I don't like that the power shift is supposedly "overnight" and the implication that Xavier sucked before, and now it's all of a sudden better. We have been playing better basketball, with better results than UC for the last decade.
I don't like it that he has to disparage the new conference by calling it the big priest. It's still the Big East idiot, it's just that your team isn't in it anymore.
I don't like that he indicates we didn't belong to a conference of respected academic institutions (St Louis? Richmond? are not respected?) but now all of a sudden we do.

I'm tired of listing these things I don't like about that column. Feel free to keep adding to the list.

I think you will be much happier when you learn to stop looking for things to offend you. There were as many (if not more) implicit compliments to XU than jabs. That said I agree that little of value comes of reading Doc at all.

[paulxu]

I'm just fine and very happy thank you.
But I don't need some sports writer to imply my school will now belong to a conference of respected institutions...implying that they did not before.

[muskienick]

I thought the most telling portion of Doc's column was when he stated (in so many words) that Xavier had been planning, preparing, and working for this upgrade for quite some time. The implication was that the Xavier brass anticipated this opportunity years ago, scheduled accordingly, and acted the part of a Big 6 program, thus making themselves appealing to the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. Johns, etc...

Overall, I think this morning's "Doc column" was complimentary to Xavier and painted UC as falling to second-class status unless they can get on their knees and successfully pray to the ACC Gods for redemption. He was also quite demeaning of an America 12 Conference including the likes of Central Florida, Houston, and Tulane coming to 5th-3rd Arena on a Tuesday night and playing before a handful of people including ticket-takers, scorekeepers, and mop-boys!

I would be far more pissed about the column if I were a Bearcat fan than I am this morning as a Muskie fan!!!

[RealDeal]

I love how the media in this town are focusing 95% on how this negatively impacts uc and 5% on how great it could be for Xaxier. It reminds me of the brawl coverage. Whatever, in the immortal words of this towns favorite alcoholic, f**k 'em.

[Masterofreality]

I thought the most telling portion of Doc's column was when he stated (in so many words) that Xavier had been planning, preparing, and working for this upgrade for quite some time. The implication was that the Xavier brass anticipated this opportunity years ago, scheduled accordingly, and acted the part of a Big 6 program, thus making themselves appealing to the likes of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. Johns, etc...

Overall, I think this morning's "Doc column" was complimentary to Xavier and painted UC as falling to second-class status unless they can get on their knees and successfully pray to the ACC Gods for redemption. He was also quite demeaning of an America 12 Conference including the likes of Central Florida, Houston, and Tulane coming to 5th-3rd Arena on a Tuesday night and playing before a handful of people including ticket-takers, scorekeepers, and mop-boys!

I would be far more pissed about the column if I were a Bearcat fan than I am this morning as a Muskie fan!!!

Doc is a hack, but what Nick said......

And, thank you Mike Bobinski, and good luck at G Tech. There will be no snide nicknames from me for Bobo. Classy guy, who did a superb job and left for good reasons....and left the right way.

[paulxu]

In a very slow couple of days while we await the Big East, I decided to check into the rumor mill.

Here's the Dude's latest following his belief that FSU has applied to the B1G. Of course it doesn't leave a hole for ND, so that seems problematic:

The Dude of WV‏@theDudeofWV
@ClemTig86 FSU, UVA, UNC & Duke to B1G. Miami & Clemson to B12. NCST & VT to the SEC.

Just like basketball, I guess any of these things have to happen before June 30th to impact the 2014 season. Money talks....BS walks.

(Edit; just noticed that leaves GT and the Atlanta market out in the cold. So there's that.)

[paulxu]

More fun. MHver reported the exact opposite of the Dude (concerning FSU's application to join B1G), Tuxedo had an article link indicating conferences may need to be at 12 members for new playoffs (hello Big 12)....and the Dude must have been mad because he put his Twitter account into some sort of protected mode where you can't read it.

[GoMuskies]

Looks like the ACC is safe. The Big Ten is going Division III.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130318/big-ten-jim-delany-ncaa-obannon/

[LA Muskie]

Looks like the ACC is safe. The Big Ten is going Division III.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130318/big-ten-jim-delany-ncaa-obannon/

Ha! I don't have any further comment. It's one of the most incredible (as in, lacking any credibility whatsoever) threats I've ever heard. And I've heard some pretty bad ones.

[paulxu]

I did like this line though...sounded familar.


Delany also disagreed with my oft-repeated assertion that the Big Ten changed the revenue model for major college sports when it launched the Big Ten Network. Delany counters that the league took control and assumed half the financial risk -- Fox has the other half -- because ESPN's stranglehold on college content allowed that network to lowball leagues.

[X-band '01]

So that's why Maryland and Rutgers want to join the B1G.

[drudy23]

In a very slow couple of days while we await the Big East, I decided to check into the rumor mill.

Here's the Dude's latest following his belief that FSU has applied to the B1G. Of course it doesn't leave a hole for ND, so that seems problematic:

The Dude of WV‏@theDudeofWV
@ClemTig86 FSU, UVA, UNC & Duke to B1G. Miami & Clemson to B12. NCST & VT to the SEC.

Just like basketball, I guess any of these things have to happen before June 30th to impact the 2014 season. Money talks....BS walks.

(Edit; just noticed that leaves GT and the Atlanta market out in the cold. So there's that.)

I would love for this to happen just to watch Boeheim cry.

[paulxu]

OK, so the Dude said FSU might go B1G
MHver said the opposite. The Dude closed his twitter to outsiders.
Now Yoda weighs in:

Tuxedo Yoda‏@TuxedoYoda10h
Waiting on the green light from my source within the Texas Ath Dept but expect the biggest update on Conf realignment I've ever had by Fri.

[Muskie]

OK, so the Dude said FSU might go B1G
MHver said the opposite. The Dude closed his twitter to outsiders.
Now Yoda weighs in:

Tuxedo Yoda‏@TuxedoYoda10h
Waiting on the green light from my source within the Texas Ath Dept but expect the biggest update on Conf realignment I've ever had by Fri.

Texas and ND to the Big Ten. Game.... set.... match.
I have just as much credibility as others reporting realignment news. Take it to the bank.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The dude is saying that UNC, GT, UVA, and FSU to the B1G yada yada yada

Tuxedo is the man when it comes to this. He was ridiculed for days when he said Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G.

[BMoreX]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 28m
Tulsa will join old Big East & East Carolina will be added as full member in 2014, sources told @ESPN

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 7m
When Tulsa joins Big East in 2014, 9 of 11 teams in league will be former C-USA schools

[More Cowbell]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 28m
Tulsa will join old Big East & East Carolina will be added as full member in 2014, sources told @ESPN

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 7m
When Tulsa joins Big East in 2014, 9 of 11 teams in league will be former C-USA schools

I feel like this should be on the "Tweets you gotta Love" thread. UC is back in CUSA, but without the good basketball programs.

[coasterville95]

All they need now is for some poor school to be so desperate for a coach as to settle on Cronin. Imagine UC trying to hire a good basketball coach into that flaming dumpster.

[xu95]

All they need now is for some poor school to be so desperate for a coach as to settle on Cronin. Imagine UC trying to hire a good basketball coach into that flaming dumpster.

When was the last time they hired a good coach?

[paulxu]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 7m
When Tulsa joins Big East in 2014, 9 of 11 teams in league will be former C-USA schools

First, Tulsa is not joining the Big East in 2014. I have no idea what the hell conference they are joining, but I know for sure it's not the Big East.

With 9 teams, that sounds like a good voting majority out of 11. Might I suggest for a new name C-USA?

[Masterofreality]

First, Tulsa is not joining the Big East in 2014. I have no idea what the hell conference they are joining, but I know for sure it's not the Big East.

With 9 teams, that sounds like a good voting majority out of 11. Might I suggest for a new name C-USA?

You know that ESPN will try to milk that name association as long as they possibly can, even though there is no association.

And the two Non former CUSA schools are UCon and....?

[Retire33]

You know that ESPN will try to milk that name association as long as they possibly can, even though there is no association.

And the two Non former CUSA schools are UCon and....?

Temple

[Masterofreality]

Temple

Correct, sir.

[xu95]

You know that ESPN will try to milk that name association as long as they possibly can, even though there is no association.

And the two Non former CUSA schools are UCon and....?

they can actually milk it until July 1st because technically those teams are the Big East until then.

[Masterofreality]

From Tuxedo Yoda.

This could hasten the demise of the ACC and bring Notre Dame back to the Big East as #12.

Done deal
There are 2 rock-solid, definitive statements I can make. There will be no hedging, no flip-flopping, no back-tracking. There is nothing that can fall through and no last minute shocking developments that will change things. Per my source, these 2 realignment moves have been fully negotiated and they are DONE. They have not only been blessed by the networks, they are the products of the networks, particularly Fox & CBS.

#1 When the 2014 college football season kicks off, UNC will be a member of the SEC.

#2 When the 2014 college football season kicks off, Miami will be a member of the Big 12.

Regarding #1.......I know you want to know who will join with UNC to be team #16 in the SEC. Per my source, this has not been decided.

Regarding #2.......The Big 12's preferred scenario is to only add 2 teams, FSU and Miami, and to stop at 12. Miami is a done deal. FSU is not. I was not told why. I was not told percentages of FSU joining the Big 12. I was not told if FSU is trying to join another conference or if FSU wants to stay in the ACC. I was told that if FSU refuses to join the Big 12, the next most lucrative option proposed by the networks will be carried out. The Big 12 will go to 14 with a 3-team Florida block of Miami, UCF, USF and a 4th team from the current ACC. I was not told the name of the 4th team.

Why are these things happening? This isn't about what fans, ADs or board members want. I was told this is what the networks want.

[Juice]

From Tuxedo Yoda.

This could hasten the demise of the ACC and bring Notre Dame back to the Big East as #12.

Done deal
There are 2 rock-solid, definitive statements I can make. There will be no hedging, no flip-flopping, no back-tracking. There is nothing that can fall through and no last minute shocking developments that will change things. Per my source, these 2 realignment moves have been fully negotiated and they are DONE. They have not only been blessed by the networks, they are the products of the networks, particularly Fox & CBS.

#1 When the 2014 college football season kicks off, UNC will be a member of the SEC.

#2 When the 2014 college football season kicks off, Miami will be a member of the Big 12.

Regarding #1.......I know you want to know who will join with UNC to be team #16 in the SEC. Per my source, this has not been decided.

Regarding #2.......The Big 12's preferred scenario is to only add 2 teams, FSU and Miami, and to stop at 12. Miami is a done deal. FSU is not. I was not told why. I was not told percentages of FSU joining the Big 12. I was not told if FSU is trying to join another conference or if FSU wants to stay in the ACC. I was told that if FSU refuses to join the Big 12, the next most lucrative option proposed by the networks will be carried out. The Big 12 will go to 14 with a 3-team Florida block of Miami, UCF, USF and a 4th team from the current ACC. I was not told the name of the 4th team.

Why are these things happening? This isn't about what fans, ADs or board members want. I was told this is what the networks want.


But what happens to the American 12 if those teams leave?!?!

[paulxu]

I don't think the BE would take ND as 11 or 12.
If Yoda is right, the SEC just pulled an end run on Delaney to get UNC into the fold. Broke up the Duke/UNC marriage, and should hasten some others to the Big12. If FSU couldn't get in the B1G, they need to plan on the B12 before it's too late.

Should be fun times between now and July 1 as the Maryland deal should get settled, and 2014 leaving teams need to announce by then to avoid some exit fees.

Do have to admire ND in that they have no exit fee if they want to put football somewhere. I'm going to assume the cut a sweet deal with the ACC with no exit fees if they move the other sports.

The SEC would like to see them back for another NC game. That was fun.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The well dressed Yoda has spoken!

If he is right on this after the Maryland/Rutgers predictions, he will be the Nate Silver of College Football Re-Alignment

[paulxu]

The well dressed Yoda has spoken!

If he is right on this after the Maryland/Rutgers predictions, he will be the Nate Silver of College Football Re-Alignment

And silence descends on the blogosphere.

[STL_XUfan]

Loyola Chicago to the MVC.

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/375070/6/Loyola-Chicago-to-join-the-Missouri-Valley-Conference

[UCGRAD4X]

Tuxedo Yoda

Sounds like a Jedi Penguin.

[Masterofreality]

Loyola Chicago to the MVC.

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/375070/6/Loyola-Chicago-to-join-the-Missouri-Valley-Conference

This is great news for my Loyola Grad daughter who, along with her husband are season ticket holders.

[GoMuskies]

I was wondering why there were so many people vomiting in the streets in Wichita today.

[JTG]

I was wondering why there were so many people vomiting in the streets in Wichita today.

Why? They get a trip to Chicago and a guaranteed win.

[DC Muskie]

Dayton has to be pissed they lost another spot to move to.

[SM#24]

Looking forward to the rekindling of the old Loyola-Evansville rivalry.

[Masterofreality]

I was wondering why there were so many people vomiting in the streets in Wichita today.

You say that now, but Loyola is making some big commitments to upgrade the programs. They just hired Sheryl Swoopes as Head Women's coach.

And, errrrr, Loyola did beat DePaul this year....,there's that.

[paulxu]

B1G bails on Legends/Leaders and goes to the much more interesting East/West conference division names.

ND somehow talks NBC into another 10 year TV deal. I'll never understand why the major conferences in the country allow them to be independent and somehow get consideration for a national title game. Then again, after being the SEC's whipping boy last year, I can understand why they want to remain independent.

[GoMuskies]

Well look at that. Turns out ole GoMuskies wasn't wrong about the ACC sticking around intact. Bad news for UC.


David Glenn Show‏ @ DavidGlennShow 12m
BREAKING: Multiple DG sources says ACC will announce unanimous 15 school agreement extending Grant of Media

The Dude sure nailed this story!

Perhaps a more reputable source: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22116192/acc-approving-grant-of-rights-deal

The major expansioning is probably over for now if this happens...next thing to happen will be the Big XII crumbling (down the road). Count on it.

[Masterofreality]

“@SIPeteThamel: Just confirmed earlier reports of ACC grant of rights. Will be announced formally within the hour. Just a huge day for the ACC. No poaching.”

Yep. This is very bad news for SucKS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHA!!

Suck it Borecats.

By the way, that also means that Yoda was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the reservation.

[DC Muskie]

The major expansioning is probably over for now if this happens...next thing to happen will be the Big XII crumbling (down the road). Count on it.

Just curious. How would the Big12 crumble if they have the same thing that will prevent the ACC from vanishing?

[GoMuskies]

In a decade. The next round. I'll use my 100,000th post on that news.

[Masterofreality]

Here's SucKS honk Mike DeCoursey's take.

I like Mike a lot, but his over the top pumping of the Borecats and YTG really gets old. None of that in this article, though.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-04-22/acc-grant-of-rights-deal-15-members-realignment-cincinnati

[GoMuskies]

Wow, that was a well-kept secret. It's official already, and you this took a LOT of time to put together: http://www.theacc.com/genrel/042213aaa.html

[Caveat]

It'll be really amusing to watch them spend $100 million upgrading Nippert Stadium so that 10,000 people can show up to watch Tulane play.

[coasterville95]

Wow, if the Grant of Rights is really as effecitve as some are making it out to be, that's a 15 team conference set in stone. I note Maryland is not in the list of those granting rights. That potential exit will get them down to 15. Could add one more to get to that magic 16 number.

Cincinnati better be campaigning hard. that ACC life preserver that MoR mentions is getting awfully small, and the ship its connected to is pulling away.

They would take UConn before Cincinnati, right? Surely there HAS to be another quality Atlantic Coast football school they can find and snap up, right?

[Masterofreality]

Actually, it would be 14 for football, counting U of L with Maryland deleted, and 15 for everything else with ND.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think the ACC will look to expand. With ND, it's always going to be unwieldy (odd number for either football or all other sports), so I suspect they stay at 14 for football and just deal with having an odd number in the rest of the sports.

[Masterofreality]

I don't think the ACC will look to expand. With ND, it's always going to be unwieldy (odd number for either football or all other sports), so I suspect they stay at 14 for football and just deal with having an odd number in the rest of the sports.

All these leagues are sort of stuck on this 14 number now.

“@slmandel: It would in fact be a perfectly fitting ending to three years of silliness if everyone winds up stuck at 14.”

[GoMuskies]

Nevermind.

[Masterofreality]

I really think that if the ACC was going to expand to make a 16 team basketball league, they'd take UCon.....if for nothing else than from pressure emitting from the 4 letter network headquartered in, errrr, Bristol, CONNECTICUT. That is the same network that just anted up big bucks to the league for media rights.

The Borecats are screwed...totally. No one wants them and their crappy Rose Hill-esque football playpen. They can have a lot of fun playing in their lousy little league with Tulane, SMU, Memphis and East Carolina then going to the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHA.............HA!!!

[GoMuskies]

If this really is the end of major conference realignment, I feel terrible for Jimmy X2. He's been killing it in this thread.

[xudash]

I really think that if the ACC was going to expand to make a 16 team basketball league, they'd take UCon.....if for nothing else than from pressure emitting from the 4 letter network headquartered in, errrr, Bristol, CONNECTICUT. That is the same network that just anted up big bucks to the league for media rights.

The Borecats are screwed...totally. No one wants them and their crappy Rose Hill-esque football playpen. They can have a lot of fun playing in their lousy little league with Tulane, SMU, Memphis and East Carolina then going to the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHA.............HA!!!

It's like that Coke Zero add with "AND" in it:

Xavier to the Big East and the big time AND UC goes mid-major, where it once was, where it should be, AND, as it looks now, where it will be.