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SixFig
12-12-2012, 01:58 PM
East: Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's
Mid-West: DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, St. Louis
West: Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's, Loyola Marymount, San Diego
I would think you would have to add one more school to each division, so when teams make road trips they can go to 2 teams guaranteed. Lets say VCU in the east, Dayton in the Midwest and Creighton in the West. So your West coast trip would be to LMU and USD or Gonzaga and SMC or Creighton and BYU.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 02:47 PM
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Marquette AD: "(Big East) changed. Somebody came & put new furniture in & boy do we still fit here is what everyone is thinking about"
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Marquette AD: “I wasn't pleased we issued invitation to Tulane w/out any diligence to what effect that would have on our basketball product"
Matt Peloquin @NCAAsports
Marquette AD disses A10...dismisses idea BE7 would ever join A10 http://wp.me/p2cwux-m7q
Williams dismissed the idea of the Catholic schools joining with teams from the A-10, although ESPN.com reported that the A-10 would be interested in adding some of the Big East’s basketball-only schools.
“When you think about the A-10, I don’t even really view the remnants of the Big East in the same light as I do the A-10,” he said.
“There’s no Georgetown in the A-10. Georgetown has won a national championship. There’s no Marquette in the A-10. They’ve not won a national championship in their history. They have a couple of good schools and they have some nice quality across the board, but I certainly, and I know I’m being sort of a homer here, but I certainly think the Big East basketball schools present a profile that is superior to what the depth of the A-10 is.”
Delany asked Mayland president & AD to sign non-disclosure agreements before talks occurred
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/maryland-to-big-ten-its-money-versus-tradition/2012/12/11/3c5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story_3.html
Titanxman04
12-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Marquette AD: "(Big East) changed. Somebody came & put new furniture in & boy do we still fit here is what everyone is thinking about"
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Marquette AD: “I wasn't pleased we issued invitation to Tulane w/out any diligence to what effect that would have on our basketball product"
Matt Peloquin @NCAAsports
Marquette AD disses A10...dismisses idea BE7 would ever join A10 http://wp.me/p2cwux-m7q
I hate Marquette. I hate 'me I say!
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 02:57 PM
I hate Marquette. I hate 'me I say!
I thought you hated Gonzaga?
Titanxman04
12-12-2012, 03:01 PM
I thought you hated Gonzaga?
My hatred cannot limit itself to only one school/ad/uc basketball coach.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 03:13 PM
DePaul among 7 Catholic schools set for Big East exodus
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/16971737-419/depaul-among-7-catholic-schools-set-for-big-east-exodus.html
No decision was made after the meeting, but sources indicate a vote by the university presidents to separate could be imminent.
BandAid
12-12-2012, 03:22 PM
Wait...So the Marquette AD doesn't remember LaSalle winning? No way!
But seriously, who are you babe?! This is my apartment babe!
I serve society by rocking...
Sorry bout the School of Rock quotes, it's been a long day at work.
muskienick
12-12-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't see anything particularly wrong with what the Marquette AD had to say. Sure, we kinda like the A-10. But wouldn't we like it a lot more if we could pare a few of the non-productive "limbs" from our "tree"? Do we begrudge the MU AD the right to express his opinion of not wanting his BB teams playing the likes of Fordham, LaSalle, GW, St. Joe's, etc in their H.S. gyms?
Heck, how often have we felt the same way and said the same things. It makes far more sense for him to say such things in order to deflect the press from asking more probing questions about the possibility of dissolving the Big East and starting over with SOME of the best BB-centric institutions in the East and Midwest.
The 21-member new A-10 has about as much chance to materialize as the proverbial snowball in hell (but I love the fact that Bernie McGlade is talking about it). The dregs of the seven BE BB schools would likely be at least middling in the A-10, akin to the GW's, URI's, UMass's, Richmond's and UD's. How I'd like XU to be in a Conference with "dregs" like DePaul, Providence, and Seton Hall! Sure, they haven't matched up recently with the likes of Creighton, Butler, VCU, and Xavier, but they have it all over our dregs like Scarlett Johansson has "it" over Ingemar Johansson!
GoMuskies
12-12-2012, 03:58 PM
Marquette is definitely my least favorite of the Big East 7. They seem to have an arrogance that is based on nothing.
Muskie
12-12-2012, 04:05 PM
Marquette is definitely my least favorite of the Big East 7. They seem to have an arrogance that is based on nothing.
They won a championship in the 70's and had DeWayne Wade (and Chris Mack's #1 fan Tom Crean).
GoMuskies
12-12-2012, 04:07 PM
I guess I don't mean to say "nothing". I guess that I think ego outstrips performance up there.
Muskie
12-12-2012, 04:13 PM
I guess I don't mean to say "nothing". I guess that I think ego outstrips performance up there.
Agreed. I was responding tongue in cheek.
Aughnanure
12-12-2012, 04:15 PM
Marquette is definitely my least favorite of the Big East 7. They seem to have an arrogance that is based on nothing.
You guys can be really sensitive about the A10. Though, not like the Dayton board in any way.
Muskie
12-12-2012, 04:19 PM
You guys can be really sensitive about the A10. Though, not like the Dayton board in any way.
Yes and no. It is akin to some people on Marquette's Boards puffing BEast this Big East that all the time. I welcome Marquette to the A-10, or to whatever conference they end up with X. It means I'll get to see 1-2 X vs. Marquette games per year instead of X v. (insert here) 1-2 times per year.
Aughnanure
12-12-2012, 04:40 PM
Yes and no. It is akin to some people on Marquette's Boards puffing BEast this Big East that all the time. I welcome Marquette to the A-10, or to whatever conference they end up with X. It means I'll get to see 1-2 X vs. Marquette games per year instead of X v. (insert here) 1-2 times per year.
Nobody's going to the A-10. Sorry.
Muskie
12-12-2012, 04:47 PM
Nobody's going to the A-10. Sorry.
Probably not. It'll be interesting to see what chairs are open when the music stops I guess.
Xu Red Dogg
12-12-2012, 05:26 PM
There is NO WAY the 'Catholic 7' merges with the A-10. NONE.
If you think for one second that Georgetown is so desperate right now that they would agree to share space with Fordham, Bonaventure and LaSalle you are insane.
If I were a gambling man I would say that these 7 schools do indeed bounce from the Big East. Like the Providence Journal suggested today they will grab anywhere from 3 to 5 additional teams, form their own conference, negotiate their own TV deal and celebrate their basketball brand.
Now the big question is: If is only 3, who are those teams?
paulxu
12-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Well, I'm happy that Temple can't block the BB schools if they want to leave. I assume this means they can take the NCAA credits, the name and MSG with them if they go.
It that is the case, I've got to believe it is up to the TV boys and their $. If they'll offer enough, they're gone with assumedly a few more to make a BB only conference.
Time for the Paul Plan.
XUFan09
12-12-2012, 06:43 PM
Of course Mike is going to say there are no active targets. Even if he was on his way to a press conference to announce all this.
Mike Bobinski/Xavier is the A10's Thad Matta lol.
Section 200
12-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Wow - the Marquette AD is certainly full of himself. You would think he would be more cautious, as you never know what will happen and Marquette may have to request A-10 membership or face joining the MVC. What if Georgetown & Villanova somehow find a way to the ACC or even the Ivy League - unlikely, yes, but who would have dreamed that Louisville would be admitted to the ACC even 3 months ago? West Virginia joined a conference where the closest member is 1,000 miles away with a group of schools they have almost no history with. Things are crazy right now - you would think the smart move would be to network as much as possible and say essentially nothing in public.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 08:18 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/21379753/big-east-in-a-state-of-perplexity-with-possible-breakaway
Utter confusion, chaos and uncertainty reside in the Big East. Fans of the seven Catholic, non-FBS basketball schools -- Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's and DePaul -- aren't the only ones sitting idle with anticipation, wondering and worrying where they will wind up as the realignment dominoes continue to fall.
"We have no clue what's going to happen," said one Big East head coach. "And there's nothing we can do about it."
"The landscape is changing," another told CBSSports.com. "And nobody has the answer."
Big East commissioner Mike Aresco met with the presidents and athletic directors this past Sunday to get the pulse of the key decision-makers moving forward. Poor Aresco. The former CBS television executive walked into a difficult situation when he was hired this past August, because there's just no way that Dave Gavitt or even Mike Tranghese would have ever had the league in this situation -- where there's speculation (and that's all it is) that Big East schools are contemplating a move to the Atlantic 10.
"Gavitt would be rolling over in his grave right now if he knew what was going on," one coach said.
However, former commissioner John Marinatto now has the league in a reactive mode instead of a proactive one.
"This meeting should have happened six months, a year or 18 months ago," one Big East coach said. "This wasn't an unpredictable place to be. It was highly predicted. We didn't know who was going to end up where, but we knew who was going to be left behind."
No one quite knows what the ideal scenario is for this league going forward. Obviously, the seven schools aren't just going to up and leave because there's just too much on the table. There's the millions of dollars due them from the exit fees that will be recouped from West Virginia, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Rutgers and Louisville. There are the NCAA tournament shares, which are substantial -- also millions of dollars -- due to the success of the league in recent years. There's also the Big East name and the deal with Madison Square Garden.
"The elephant in the room is the exit fee money," a Big East coach told CBSSports.com. "Seven presidents aren't going to throw that kind of money away. It's going to be really hard for them to walk away from that."
But if they stick around, the complexion of the league is set to alter. Instead of owning the room, as is currently the case, the "Hardwood Seven" as we'll deem them, could soon find themselves in the minority with football schools such as Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Tulane, Boise State and San Diego State, along with Temple and Memphis, set to join this league.
"Time is now of the essence," one coach said. "You have to be proactive."
The easiest solution would be for the seven schools to split, keep the name and the deal with MSG, and then go out and try and lure anywhere from three to five basketball schools. Xavier, Butler and Saint Louis were discussed, according to one source, at Sunday's meeting. Then the hope would be to go out and negotiate a television deal, one that wouldn't command the same finances as the current contract, but would provide enough resources, exposure and give the league long-term sustainability.
"It's all about the TV package," said one coach. "That's the bottom line. If you make it an all-basketball league and go get Xavier and Butler, it becomes a really good league."
Can it generate the $1.5 million or so that each school in the league currently brings in annually? Not a chance, but Aresco might be able to pull off a deal that could still generate enough dollars to make it feasible.
If those seven schools do branch off, it leaves a pretty solid league -- even in terms of basketball schools. There's UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple -- four teams that can consistently compete for NCAA tournament bids -- along with South Florida, Central Florida, Houston, SMU and Tulane.
"It's still clearly better than Conference-USA," said one coach who is leaving C-USA for the Big East. "And that's still pretty good markets. It's still got a lot of really good teams in it -- even if we lose those seven schools."
The Hardwood Seven are upset with the addition of UCF, Houston, SMU and most recently, Tulane. These are schools that are built on basketball, generate a large chunk of money from home games each season, and now it's more difficult to sell those tickets when Syracuse, Louisville and Pittsburgh aren't coming to town. In addition, coaches are worried about essentially being forced to ramp up their non-conference schedule because the league slate won't have as many quality opponents.
"If you lose at Syracuse or West Virginia, it's not a bad loss," one coach said. "If you lose at SMU or Houston, it'll kill you. So now you have to play a brutal non-conference schedule."
For now, though, there are questions -- and few answers. Coaches are dealing with negative recruiting. One coach received a call recently from a high school star telling him his summer coach informed him they won't even have a league. Another forwarded a college coach a story saying they were heading to the A-10.
"It sucks," the coach said. "It's difficult enough to recruit at these type of places -- and now we have to deal with this."
Usually, coaches have an answer for just about everything. But even these guys are at a loss for words right now.
"Something's going to happen," one coach said. "I just don't know what."
"We'll know something sooner rather than later," said another. "Within the next month, I'm told we'll know what direction we're going."
bobbiemcgee
12-12-2012, 08:49 PM
Nice you can't read one of these articles nowadays without X being prominently mentioned. We got "hand."
BMoreX
12-12-2012, 09:36 PM
Nice you can't read one of these articles nowadays without X being prominently mentioned. We got "hand."
I also like the "sooner rather than later" and "in a month we'll know" comments.
Section 200
12-12-2012, 09:59 PM
I actually like our position right now - if we get a change to move up, great, if not, we'll just keep owning the A-10 and advancing in March. Our AD is the head of the tourney selection, the last 2 players that left went to Arizona and Maryland (meaning that we have great talent), we average 10k fans a game and I can see every game I don't go to on TV. Life is good!
coasterville95
12-12-2012, 10:33 PM
No slight meant towards our AD.
It's just that the more important you are the safer you have to be with your tweets and comments.
I mean if you and I tweet and post - its just two sports nuts talking about what may happen.
If a sports guy from ESPN/FOX/CBS/Whatever tweets (particularly if under the flag of their sponsoring media outlet) then it carries more weight.
If our (or Marquette) AD tweet or comment, suddenly it becomes very real. They need to hold tight to the party line until every T is crossed and every I is dotted. No matter what they may really think, or what kind of negotiations they are in, they will be the most loyal sounding members of their conference.
xudash
12-12-2012, 11:08 PM
The Who just brought the house down at Madison Square Garden with a well done Love Reign O'r Me (sp) during the 121212 relief concert.
In NYC for Christmas visit. Love this town, but hate not being able to keep with all the breaking news.
I just hope that games against LossSalle will soon be history.
BMoreX
12-13-2012, 12:03 AM
@McMurphyESPN: BE hoops schools expected to release statement on future plans in 24-48 hours." our story will be up soon.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
apoclater
12-13-2012, 12:40 AM
Wow - the Marquette AD is certainly full of himself. You would think he would be more cautious, as you never know what will happen and Marquette may have to request A-10 membership or face joining the MVC. What if Georgetown & Villanova somehow find a way to the ACC or even the Ivy League - unlikely, yes, but who would have dreamed that Louisville would be admitted to the ACC even 3 months ago? West Virginia joined a conference where the closest member is 1,000 miles away with a group of schools they have almost no history with. Things are crazy right now - you would think the smart move would be to network as much as possible and say essentially nothing in public.
*Disclaimer: Marquette fan looking forward to playing with Xavier and still wanting to talk objectively*
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20121212_Time_to_Split_.html
(http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20121212_Time_to_Split_.html)
"ESPN.com reported Tuesday that the A-10 has discussed the possibility of inviting some or all of the Big East non-football schools. "The seven Big East schools have no interest in that at all," a Big East source said."
It's not even close to a consideration that Marquette or anyone from the Big East will be joining the A-10. Twitter tracker:
Pete Thamel @SIPeteThamel
Some Big East knowledge today: The A-10 wanting to take in Big East hoops teams = Sun Belt wanting Florida and Bama.
When you think about it Marquette's AD isn't saying anything that crazy. Objectively, teams in the Big East have traditionally better teams with more history. Marquette, Nova, and Georgetown have all won national championships and over the past 5-10 years have competed fairly consistently in the top 25. Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, and DePaul have all at least made it to a Final Four. The team brands are just have more cachet.
Now, I would argue that teams like Xavier and Gonzaga are certainly better recognized brands than SHU, SJU, PU and DU. Conference affiliation with Georgetown, Marquette and Nova will elevate that. Not to mention I don't think it's worth getting butthurt over the AD slapping the A-10 anyways, Xavier is almost certainly coming for the ride on the New Big East conference anyways, time to leave the A-10 to the Bonnies and the George Washingtons of the world.
OTRMUSKIE
12-13-2012, 12:43 AM
http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8742607
The presidents of the Big East's seven Catholic, non-Football Bowl Subdivision schools are expected to decide on their future in the Big East in the coming days and it "would be an upset" if they remained in the league, sources told ESPN.
The seven schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- are "close to a consensus on what they want to do next," a source said Wednesday.
The presidents of the seven schools are scheduled to conduct a teleconference with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco on Thursday and are expected to issue a statement on their schools' future in the next 24 to 48 hours.
More From ESPN.com
After years of having their fate decided for them, the seven Catholic, basketball-playing schools that form the core of the original Big East might finally be growing a spine, Dana O'Neil writes. Story
On Sunday, the seven presidents met with Aresco in New York to discuss a number of options and "better understand the best course of action for the future," ESPN reported.
Sources told ESPN the seven schools discussed a number of options but most importantly wanted to have "lots of dialogue to better understand the best course of action for the future."
Sources said Wednesday it's becoming "more likely" the basketball schools will break away from the league's football members.
It's unknown if they would attempt to dissolve the league or leave the league as a group. The league can be dissolved by vote of the league members by a two-thirds majority, according to Big East by-laws. With all of the Big East's recent defections, there are only 10 members (the seven non-FBS schools plus Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida) that can vote on the league dissolving.
A source told ESPN Wednesday, Temple, as a football-only member, has voting rights, but can't vote on dissolution of the league. With Temple unable to vote, that gives the seven basketball schools enough votes to dissolve the league.
Sources said there are multiple legal entanglements that make the voting situation "complex."
UConn president Susan Herbst has contacted officials from the non-FBS Big East members, pleading with them to stay in the league, sources told ESPN.
Ironically, Herbst, along with Cincinnati and South Florida officials, heavily lobbied to get out of the Big East and join the ACC, when the league had to replace Maryland.
"I know this may seem like a tough moment for our fans, but we need to focus on the fundamentals of academic success across the university and in our athletic program as well," Herbst said in a statement when Louisville, and not UConn, was selected by the ACC last month.
If the seven basketball schools leave the Big East, it would be a crippling blow to the Big East's current media rights negotiations. Last week CBSSports.com projected the value of the Big East's media rights revenue between $60 million and $80 million.
An industry source thought the figure would be closer to $50 million, he told ESPN Tuesday. The estimates reported by CBSSports.com and ESPN both included the basketball schools as part of the package.
If the Big East lost the seven Catholic basketball schools, it would decrease the value of the league's media rights by "15-20 percent," an industry source said.
All of these factors also could impact decisions by Boise State and San Diego State ultimately to join the league in 2013 as football-only members. Both schools have reiterated in the past they are committed to the Big East, but if the seven basketball schools leave it could erase any potential financial gains Boise and SDSU would get from leaving the Mountain West for the Big East.
On Tuesday night, Marquette athletic director Larry Williams was critical of the future membership of the Big East.
"The Big East that Marquette joined in 2005, boy, that's a different looking animal going forward over the next couple of years," Williams told 540 ESPN Milwaukee. "It's prompted some deeper discussion what futures are for schools such as Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova."
In the last couple of years, seven Big East schools have announced they were leaving: West Virginia, Pittsburgh, TCU, Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame and Rutgers.
A Big East source from a football-playing school told ESPN on Sunday, 'the basketball schools are not thrilled with Tulane' and 'would have fallen off the ledge if we would have added East Carolina as a full member.'
In their place, the Big East added Temple as a football-only member this year -- the Owls will be full members next year -- and will add Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF, Boise State and San Diego State in 2013, Tulane and East Carolina in 2014 and Navy in 2015.
Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF and Tulane will be full Big East members; Boise State, San Diego State, East Carolina and Navy will be football-only members.
A Big East source from a football-playing school told ESPN on Sunday, "the basketball schools are not thrilled with Tulane" and "would have fallen off the ledge if we would have added East Carolina as a full member."
Williams acknowledged he was "not pleased" specifically about adding Tulane.
"I was not pleased that we issued an invitation to Tulane without any diligence to what effect that would have on our basketball product, the draw on our RPI and other such things," Williams told 540 ESPN Milwaukee. "I was disappointed that I wasn't able to participate as a member of the conference in the deliberation that went into adding that."
Williams added that the Big East's other non-football schools felt the same way.
"Part of this is just everybody's uneasy with all these questions that everybody's got in their own minds," Williams told 540 ESPN Milwaukee. "There was something really cool about the Big East. You could rely on it to get six or eight or nine bids in a year.
"It was home. Now that home has been sort of changed, and somebody came and put new furniture in, and boy, do we still fit here is what everyone is sort of thinking about."
Brett McMurphy is a college football reporter for ESPN. Andy Katz is a senior college basketball writer for ESPN.com. Dana O'Neil covers college basketball for ESPN.com.
apoclater
12-13-2012, 12:51 AM
"UConn president Susan Herbst has contacted officials from the non-FBS Big East members, pleading with them to stay in the league, sources told ESPN."
Doesn't get any better than that. Screw UConn, why should any of the BE schools be loyal to them as they basically whored themselves out to the ACC for years now.
Just like everyone said, Cincy, Uconn, and USF left in the cold.
xsteve1
12-13-2012, 02:42 AM
"UConn president Susan Herbst has contacted officials from the non-FBS Big East members, pleading with them to stay in the league, sources told ESPN."
Doesn't get any better than that. Screw UConn, why should any of the BE schools be loyal to them as they basically whored themselves out to the ACC for years now.
Just like everyone said, Cincy, Uconn, and USF left in the cold.
Sad. Because everybody knows if the ACC comes calling UConn is gone. She's got a lot of nerve.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 06:06 AM
I'm not feeling a lot of love for this Marquette guy.
First his craps on the A10 when I'm thinking our performance in the NCAA's in the last decade probably equals the BB only BE schools.
Then he says he wasn't consulted about adding Tulane; didn't he have to vote for them to come in?
He's just figured out that his soccer team has to travel a LONG damn way each year.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 06:52 AM
It's fun to try and think of what may happen. I favor the 12 team league with Creighton.
That creates divisions and maintains a 16 game conference schedule with 14 OOC.
But the new FB conferences are aligning with 10, 12, 14,16 or maybe even 18 teams. They'll have to figure out BB schedules.
16 team super conferences may play 15 and a partner like we are doing this year.
But maybe there will be a new norm, driven by available BB $ and TV network desires.
If you had an 11 team new BE, maybe 20 conference games and 10 OOC games becomes normal?
Or 10 teams with 18 game schedule and 12 OOC games?
This will be fun to watch. Whatever happens I think Xavier has done all the right things in the last 2 decades to keep getting into better situations for the school, its teams...and its fans.
BandAid
12-13-2012, 07:13 AM
You guys can be really sensitive about the A10. Though, not like the Dayton board in any way.
It's a, "Nobody picks on my little brother except me," thing.
coasterville95
12-13-2012, 07:44 AM
The part I am most excited about is the announcement expected in 24-48 hours thing.
I want to move beyond the abstract and finally get some clarity. In particular what this means for the future of Xavier Basketball.
I do agree we really can't lose here. I mean even if our situation remains status quo, it's not like the A10 has hampered our road to the big dance.
I know UCONN wants to get into the ACC but they have to know that the ACC is also taking on water. If the B10 and other power conferences stand pat for a few years, I don't see the ACC inviting anyone. If the bball 7 vote to dissolve, would they consider offering UCONN membership for their olympic sports only? UCONN could try joining the MAC for football only or go independent for some time until the ACC has a spot.
Also, I hope the bball 7 only go after UCONN, XU and SLU to start instead of going straight to 12 teams. Teams like UD and Butler have no place esle to go, so there is no rush to add them. Heck, no one even knows if Butler can complete in the A10.
bleedXblue
12-13-2012, 08:16 AM
I know UCONN wants to get into the ACC but they have to know that the ACC is also taking on water. If the B10 and other power conferences stand pat for a few years, I don't see the ACC inviting anyone. If the bball 7 vote to dissolve, would they consider offering UCONN membership for their olympic sports only? UCONN could try joining the MAC for football only or go independent for some time until the ACC has a spot.
Also, I hope the bball 7 only go after UCONN, XU and SLU to start instead of going straight to 12 teams. Teams like UD and Butler have no place esle to go, so there is no rush to add them. Heck, no one even knows if Butler can complete in the A10.
Butler has proven themselves to be a legit top tier basketball program. To say you dont know if they can compete in the A-10 is a little ridiculous.
Butler has proven themselves to be a legit top tier basketball program. To say you dont know if they can compete in the A-10 is a little ridiculous.
Butler has had a nice little run but have yet to actually compete in the A10. For you to automatically think they can complete is a little ridiculous. That however was not the point. Point is, the bball 7 don't need to add 5 teams right off the bat. It is easy to add teams but not easy to get rid of them. The A10 made that mistake in 1995.
Xu Red Dogg
12-13-2012, 09:00 AM
I agree with some of the Marquette AD's points. Georgetown, Nova and Marquette represent BIG and established brands. It would be hard for them to start waving the A-10 flag at this point and celebrating a new marriage.
However, I think he is underestimating just how good A-10 basketball has been. Here is a great comparison posted by CBS last night.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/college-basketball-rapidreports/21380015/historical-comparison-catholic-big-east-schools-and-atlantic-10
2012
Atlantic 10
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Temple, Saint Louis, St. Bonaventure, Xavier and VCU
Overview: As a whole, it was probably the conference's least impressive performance in recent seasons. Temple and St. Bonaventure were both eliminated in the Round of 64, and Saint Louis and VCU were knocked out in the Round of 32. Xavier reached the Sweet 16, but received a favorable draw after Lehigh upset Duke a round earlier.
Overall Record: 4-5
Big East
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Georgetown, Marquette
Overview: Both the Golden Eagles and Hoyas were considered to be sleepers to reach the Final Four, but neither advanced past the Sweet 16. Marquette trailed for the majority of a 68-58 loss to Florida, while Georgetown was upset by N.C. State in the Round of 32.
Overall Record: 3-2
2011
Atlantic 10
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: VCU, Butler, Xavier, Temple, Richmond
Overview: Butler defeated VCU in the Final Four to reach the national championship for the second straight season. The Rams went from the First Four to the Final Four after a stunning upset over Kansas in the Elite Eight. Richmond also had a surprising run by reaching the Sweet 16 as a No. 12 seed.
Overall Record: 12-5
Big East
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova and St. John's
Overview: Four teams earned spots in the field, but none received a seed higher than No. 6. Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's were eliminated in the Round of 64 -- the Hoyas fell to VCU in a lopsided 74-56 defeat. Marquette upset Xavier and Syracuse but were dominated by North Carolina in the Sweet 16.
Overall Record: 2-4
2010
Atlantic 10
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Butler, Temple, Xavier, Richmond
Overview: The Bulldogs were a miraculous Gordon Hayward halfcourt heave away from defeating Duke to capture their first NCAA title in school history. Along the way, Butler defeated Michigan State, Syracuse and Kansas State. Xavier nearly faced Butler in the Elite Eight but lost to the Wildcats in a thrilling double-overtime defeat.
Overall Record: 7-4
Big East
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette
Overview: The Hoyas and Wildcats both had high expectations, but lost early to mid-majors. Georgetown was upset by No. 14 seed Ohio, while Villanova was defeated by St. Mary's in the Round of 32. Marquette lost a close game to Washington in the Round of 64.
Overall Record: 1-3
2009
Atlantic 10
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Butler, Dayton, Temple
Overview: Xavier was the only team from the conference to go on an extended run. The Musketeers reached the Sweet 16, where they were eliminated by Pitt in a close loss. Dayton was defeated 60-43 by Kansas in the Round of 32.
Overall Record: 3-5
Big East
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Villanova, Marquette
Overview: The Wildcats reached the Final Four for the first time since 1985 with an exhilarating win over Pitt in the Elite Eight. Jay Wright's team was then eliminated by North Carolina, the eventual national champion, in the next round. Marquette suffered a close loss to Missouri in the Round of 32.
Overall Record: 5-2
2008
Atlantic 10
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Xavier, Butler, Temple, St. Joseph's
Overview: Temple and St. Joseph's were both sent out in the Round of 64, while Butler was defeated a round later. Xavier fell one game short of reaching the Final Four for the first time in school history. The Musketeers lost 76-57 to a Kevin Love-led UCLA team in the Elite Eight.
Overall Record: 4-4
Big East
Teams in the NCAA Tournament: Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova
Overview: The Hoyas and Golden Eagles both went home after the Round of 32. Georgetown lost 74-70 to Davidson in a memorable performance by Stephen Curry. The Golden State Warriors' guard outscored the Hoyas 25-22 over the last 14:24 in the win. Marquette lost by one to Stanford in the Round of 32, while the No. 12 seed Wildcats were eliminated by eventual national champion Kansas in the Sweet 16.
Overall Record: 4-3
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 09:07 AM
Marquette, Nova, and Georgetown have all won national championships.
I have absolutely, positively nothing but respect for these three programs.
But frankly, it's laughable to suggest that this is somehow has any weight to the discussion.
All three national championships happened over a generation ago. Is there no time limit when it comes to these types of examples? Are we allowed to go back two or three generations to tout these accomplishments?
When the AD of Marquette slams the A-10 he slams every member of it. And his defense is "Well we won a national title in 1977?" Out here in DC Abe Polin (God Rest His Soul) used to say, "We had a pretty good year in 1978." And everybody laughed at him.
The A-10 as a conference has done pretty well for itself considering all of the misfit toys we have. I think anyone associated with a BE school should pretty much keep their mouth shut about critiquing the perception of their program and relevance in the sport.
I know Florida and Alabama. They are friends of mine. You sir, along with Villanova and Georgetown are no Florida and Alabama.
It's downright hilarious to even suggest that as a comparison.
Muskied
12-13-2012, 09:07 AM
Butler has had a nice little run but have yet to actually compete in the A10. For you to automatically think they can complete is a little ridiculous. That however was not the point. Point is, the bball 7 don't need to add 5 teams right off the bat. It is easy to add teams but not easy to get rid of them. The A10 made that mistake in 1995.
I hate Butler...want to beat them in every way...but this statement is the most rediculous statement I've ever heard. They have been to the NCAA tourney 10 of the last 15 years, and have 16 wins in that span. Brad Stevens is 139-40. The question isn't, will they compete in the A10, the question is, will the entire league be able to compete with them? Being in the Indianapolis Market, with a similar makeup of the BE hoops schools (current president came from Villanova), they are not only a likely target...there would be a rush to add them IMO, especially since they just left the Horizon.
I hate Butler...want to beat them in every way...but this statement is the most rediculous statement I've ever heard. They have been to the NCAA tourney 10 of the last 15 years, and have 16 wins in that span. Brad Stevens is 139-40. The question isn't, will they compete in the A10, the question is, will the entire league be able to compete with them? Being in the Indianapolis Market, with a similar makeup of the BE hoops schools (current president came from Villanova), they are not only a likely target...there would be a rush to add them IMO, especially since they just left the Horizon.
It is anything but ridiculous as they have yet to show they can compete. Not saying they won't but they are indeed an unknown. If Stevens were to leave, who knows what Butler becomes. However, that was not the point of my post.
GoMuskies
12-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I agree that there is no rush to add, because Butler really doesn't have anywhere else to go. But there's a big difference between adding Fordham on a whim in 1995 and adding Butler in 2013.
boozehound
12-13-2012, 09:20 AM
"UConn president Susan Herbst has contacted officials from the non-FBS Big East members, pleading with them to stay in the league, sources told ESPN."
Doesn't get any better than that. Screw UConn, why should any of the BE schools be loyal to them as they basically whored themselves out to the ACC for years now.
Just like everyone said, Cincy, Uconn, and USF left in the cold.
No kidding. If any of the basketball-only school officials listen to this broad, they are some of the dumbest people on the planet. UConn has been practically blowing the ACC trying to get accepted for a while now. The only reason they aren't gone is because they haven't been invited anywhere better. As soon as that happens they are gone. Why would the basketball schools want to protect those douchers? UC will also jump ship as soon as possible if they have a chance to go ACC or Big12.
It definitely seems to be in the best interest of schools that have high-level basketball aspirations but no FBS football aspirations to band together with like minded institutions. The Big East adding schools like Houston, SMU, and Tulane does nothing for them, and once those guys have voting rights the basketball schools are going to be back to being football's bitch.
I agree that there is no rush to add, because Butler really doesn't have anywhere else to go. But there's a big difference between adding Fordham on a whim in 1995 and adding Butler in 2013.
No doubt and I was not comparing Fordham to Butler but nice try.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 09:35 AM
MHver3 @MHver3
I'm pretty sure Uconn has an ACC invite coming
The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
@MHver3 UNCONN to ACC sets the whole ball rolling....
New York Post Sports @nypostsports
Big East basketball only schools to split from rest of conference: source http://nyp.st/Rr7sDi
"Sources said those basketball-centric schools will look to link up with teams from the Atlantic 10 - such as Butler Dayton, St. Louis and Xavier. Whether that comes in the form of a super conference with 21 teams - the seven Big East schools and the 14 A-10 schools, is unclear.
A source said the Big East was leaning towards a second option - adding schools. It wants to return to its days as a 10-12 school conference with a homogenous membership headlined by elite basketball programs in urban markets"
Brendan Prunty @BrendanPrunty
Spoke to 2 sources who confirm ESPN report on Big East break-up from hoops schools. Still many hurdles to clear, but close to happening.
CBSSports.com @CBSSports
The Big East is awfully close to breaking up: http://cbsprt.co/BEBreakup
MHver3 @MHver3
what i know is that SMU/UH/ECU/Tulane/UC/USF/BSU/SDSU have been shopping themselves as a group to the MWC and CUSA
GoMuskies
12-13-2012, 09:37 AM
I almost feel bad for UC if they end up with that group. Almost.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 09:43 AM
I almost feel bad for UC if they end up with that group. Almost.
And Temple.
This could be the greatest Christmas ever.
coasterville95
12-13-2012, 09:46 AM
I'm glad you added an Almost, didn't want to think you were getting sick or soft.
So it looks like Step One - The Big East 7 part ways with the Big East is about to happen.
Now bring on Step Two - Who does the Big East 7 invite to their table.
I wonder if C-USA (and other former conferences) would take back all the teams that went RUSHING for the Big East (but haven't quite arrived yet) if they want to pull a "Uhm, never mind?" UConn goes to the ACC (somehow), leaving USF and UC to pick up the pieces?
Can we have the announcement for this occur at like 2pm on 12/19????
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 09:47 AM
After what X went through last season and the offseason, at some point karma has to swing back the other way. Maybe this is the start of a terrific run of PR, revenue and a stretch of playing great basketball
Titanxman04
12-13-2012, 09:54 AM
After what X went through last season and the offseason, at some point karma has to swing back the other way. Maybe this is the start of a terrific run of PR, revenue and a stretch of playing great basketball
This is coming to be everything we were hoping for almost. With big time programs breaking from the Big East, Xavier and other GOOD (minus Dayton) basketball programs getting an invite, and a chance to get a great media deal out of it. The next few days are going to be very exciting.
I can't wait to hear Cronin bitch and moan if Uc gets left out in the cold.
xubrew
12-13-2012, 09:56 AM
When you think about it Marquette's AD isn't saying anything that crazy. Objectively, teams in the Big East have traditionally better teams with more history. Marquette, Nova, and Georgetown have all won national championships and over the past 5-10 years have competed fairly consistently in the top 25. Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, and DePaul have all at least made it to a Final Four. The team brands are just have more cachet.
Now, I would argue that teams like Xavier and Gonzaga are certainly better recognized brands than SHU, SJU, PU and DU. Conference affiliation with Georgetown, Marquette and Nova will elevate that. Not to mention I don't think it's worth getting butthurt over the AD slapping the A-10 anyways, Xavier is almost certainly coming for the ride on the New Big East conference anyways, time to leave the A-10 to the Bonnies and the George Washingtons of the world.
It depends on what part of history you're talking about. Objectively speaking, that is not true in regards to recent history. If you look at the timeframe that the Big East has been in its current 16 team format, the current Atlantic Ten members have completely outperformed the "Hardwood Seven." In the last ten years.....
Butler has been to four Sweet Sixteens and was the national runner up twice.
VCU has been to a Final Four.
Xavier has been to five Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eights.
Saint Joseph's has been to an Elite Eight.
It's not so much about being butthurt. It's about being objective. I don't blame them for not wanting to jump on to a 21 teams ship, and I do agree that those are storied programs, but the bulk of their history happened before anyone had any concept of what a CD player was. That's at least worth noting when you're trying to argue where your program stands in comparison to others in the present day. In 1989 after Seton Hall lost to Michigan in the Finals, there was Marquette's FF run in 2003, Georgetown's FF in 2007 and Nova's in 2009. Other than that, none of the hardwood seven have even reached the Elite Eight. Butler has basically matched that all by themselves. So, this idea that the current Atlantic Ten has been outperformed by those seven schools in the post-turntable era is completely false. AT BEST, those seven match what the A10 has done, but I would argue that they haven't even done that.
xubrew
12-13-2012, 10:03 AM
It is anything but ridiculous as they have yet to show they can compete. Not saying they won't but they are indeed an unknown. If Stevens were to leave, who knows what Butler becomes. However, that was not the point of my post.
With this logic, Xavier would be a complete unknown in a new conference with former BE schools. After all, X has not yet proven themselves against the Big East basketball schools. So, since Butler is unkown and Xavier is unkown, then taking Butler is every bit as sensible as taking Xavier.
BMoreX
12-13-2012, 10:07 AM
Although I'd love to see my Across-America conference idea come to fruition, I know that's unlikely, if not impossible,
But realistically, if the Catholic 7 dissolve, I think they add 3 more teams (for the time being) to get to 10 total and a true round-robin schedule for an 18-game conference schedule.
That leaves the door for future expansion. If the ACC starts crumbling, you know who may start calling to keep its football independence strong? Notre Dame. And you know that the new conference would love to have the Irish.
With this logic, Xavier would be a complete unknown in a new conference with former BE schools. After all, X has not yet proven themselves against the Big East basketball schools. So, since Butler is unkown and Xavier is unkown, then taking Butler is every bit as sensible as taking Xavier.
You are correct. Maybe the BE will take Butler before/over XU.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 10:17 AM
Although I'd love to see my Across-America conference idea come to fruition, I know that's unlikely, if not impossible,
But realistically, if the Catholic 7 dissolve, I think they add 3 more teams (for the time being) to get to 10 total and a true round-robin schedule for an 18-game conference schedule.
That leaves the door for future expansion. If the ACC starts crumbling, you know who may start calling to keep its football independence strong? Notre Dame. And you know that the new conference would love to have the Irish.
Very interesting point and it would leave UD out in the cold if it were a 10 team league. Double win
You are correct. Maybe the BE will take Butler before/over XU.
I dont know how you do it Brew but you've twice gotten LH to admit you were right and he was wrong
Very interesting point and it would leave UD out in the cold if it were a 10 team league. Double win
I dont know how you do it Brew but you've twice gotten LH to admit you were right and he was wrong
I never admitted I was wrong. Mostly because, I'm not. I agree with his statement that agreed with mine.
Let's try to stay on topic here Jimmy instead of letting your hard on for me ruin this thread.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 10:23 AM
MHver3 @MHver3
Just got an update that is a game changer! Too much to tweet so check bgn's Big12 board later this afternoon for the skinny
MHver3 @MHver3
The NCAA once delivered the death penalty to SMU then vowed to never issue one again. ESPN has delivered the death penalty to the Big East.
Andy Glockner @AndyGlockner
The final coup de grace would be Xavier blocking Cincinnati from joining the A-10.
Gregg Doyel @GreggDoyelCBS
Big East basketball is breaking away. It needs to be grabbing Davidson
I just hope that they are also considering Option C. Option A being the Big East inviting a few schools, Option B being the A10 invites the "Hardwood 7".
The truth is both leagues could trim some fat and it is impossible to kick teams out.
My option C would be the formation of a new leaugue with:
1) Only the best schools from the conferences.
2) No duplication of markets.
3) Only Schools commited 100% to basketball.
Conference X (see what I did there) would look something like the following
8 team League
Xavier
Butler
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns (keeps the New York Market and beats the hell out of Fordham)
Depaul (Gets the Chicago Market and has a close relationship with Marquette
VCU or Richmond not both ( I really can't decide on this one, both have pros and cons but I know VCU is all in on basketball)
9 Team League (Ideal for scheduling, play each team 2x)
Add one of the following
St. Louis
Dayton
Creighton
UMASS or Providence or Rhode Island but only 1 (just to have something in the New England Market)
After That any expansion should be extremely selective and only expand if it improves the conference.
apoclater
12-13-2012, 10:44 AM
It depends on what part of history you're talking about. Objectively speaking, that is not true in regards to recent history. If you look at the timeframe that the Big East has been in its current 16 team format, the current Atlantic Ten members have completely outperformed the "Hardwood Seven." In the last ten years.....
Butler has been to four Sweet Sixteens and was the national runner up twice.
VCU has been to a Final Four.
Xavier has been to five Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eights.
Saint Joseph's has been to an Elite Eight.
It's not so much about being butthurt. It's about being objective. I don't blame them for not wanting to jump on to a 21 teams ship, and I do agree that those are storied programs, but the bulk of their history happened before anyone had any concept of what a CD player was. That's at least worth noting when you're trying to argue where your program stands in comparison to others in the present day. In 1989 after Seton Hall lost to Michigan in the Finals, there was Marquette's FF run in 2003, Georgetown's FF in 2007 and Nova's in 2009. Other than that, none of the hardwood seven have even reached the Elite Eight. Butler has basically matched that all by themselves. So, this idea that the current Atlantic Ten has been outperformed by those seven schools in the post-turntable era is completely false. AT BEST, those seven match what the A10 has done, but I would argue that they haven't even done that.
I think that's fair. BE has notably underperformed in the dance as of late and A-10 has overperformed (though, let's be clear, VCU and Butler were not A-10 members when those runs happened).
I still think the brand of schools like the Johnnies and the Hoyas trump everything in the A-10 and schools like Xavier complement and be complemented by the existing brands.
apoclater
12-13-2012, 10:46 AM
I just hope that they are also considering Option C. Option A being the Big East inviting a few schools, Option B being the A10 invites the "Hardwood 7".
The truth is both leagues could trim some fat and it is impossible to kick teams out.
My option C would be the formation of a new leaugue with:
1) Only the best schools from the conferences.
2) No duplication of markets.
3) Only Schools commited 100% to basketball.
Conference X (see what I did there) would look something like the following
8 team League
Xavier
Butler
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns (keeps the New York Market and beats the hell out of Fordham)
Depaul (Gets the Chicago Market and has a close relationship with Marquette
VCU or Richmond not both ( I really can't decide on this one, both have pros and cons but I know VCU is all in on basketball)
9 Team League (Ideal for scheduling, play each team 2x)
Add one of the following
St. Louis
Dayton
Creighton
UMASS or Providence or Rhode Island but only 1 (just to have something in the New England Market)
After That any expansion should be extremely selective and only expand if it improves the conference.
Providence has a pretty dedicated fanbase and are the cradle of the BE, they aren't going anywhere, especially if their replacements are lowly UMASS or RI. I agree with you that I'd like to see Seton Hall go though, they've done little and have constantly shown they're not committed to spending the $$ the other BE schools are.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 10:52 AM
Random thoughts:
1 - Interesting to see the "homogenous" school comment. Means they would not have teams with big time football aspirations in new conference
2 - To dissolve conference you would need all 7 BE BB schools, so probably not feasible to form new conference leaving any of them behind
3 - There is an 8th school sitting at the table for disscussion....the University of ESPN. The 7 can't do anything without them (or some network(s)) putting up the dollars
4 - The vote of the University of ESPN on who comes aboard if they expand past 7 is more important than any of the other 7, or all of them combined
5 - The University of ESPN will decide the other members based on TV markets to create the $ necessary to have the league be viable.
The CBS recap of conference post-season performance is a real eye-opener...and that reality conflicts with the fantasy created by ESPN of the dominance/supremecy/quality of the BE.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 11:05 AM
Gary Parrish @GaryParrishCBS
Multiple sources confirmed to @CBSSports that the Big East's basketball-only schools plan to separate themselves -- http://cbsprt.co/UGKG4M
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
Hearing Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, Gonzaga and St. Mary's all among targets to join the former Big East Catholic schools
paulxu
12-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Why do I get this feeling that Xavier will drag little brother along? UGH.
Shouldn't have to do that anymore. They've had plenty of time to right their own ship.
Much rather have Creighton, St. Louis, etc.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Gary Parrish @GaryParrishCBS
Multiple sources confirmed to @CBSSports that the Big East's basketball-only schools plan to separate themselves -- http://cbsprt.co/UGKG4M
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
Hearing Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, Gonzaga and St. Mary's all among targets to join the former Big East Catholic schools
Why can't there just be a television agreement with the WCC, like an East Coast/West Coast challenge? Why do we need to create a conference that expands over 4 time zones?
If we go into a 21 or whatever team conference, then I hope there is relegation and promotion. That's the only way something like this will be worth watching.
bobbiemcgee
12-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Bobo must be installing extra phone lines today.
BlueGuy
12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Can we start a new thread just for this new topic: The Potential New Basketball Only Conf. This thread has about 50 sub topics, and is impossible to follow at this point. Every day there is a new discussion in this thread. At least this new "catholic school thing" includes X talk...
SM#24
12-13-2012, 11:20 AM
So it looks like Step One - The Big East 7 part ways with the Big East is about to happen.
Now bring on Step Two - Who does the Big East 7 invite to their table.
After Xavier, I don't care who they invite; to me SLU, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, VCU are all the same
Muskie
12-13-2012, 11:22 AM
BIG NEWS!!!!! MAAC to vote on expansion targets... (oh wait... not the news everyone is looking for?)
Link (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/13/maac-presidents-to-vote-on-expansion-candidates-friday/)
GuyFawkes38
12-13-2012, 11:30 AM
Holy crap. Is this really happening.
I feel a strange mix of excitement, nervousness, and even regret of the possibility of leaving the A10.
Why do I get this feeling that Xavier will drag little brother along? UGH.
Shouldn't have to do that anymore. They've had plenty of time to right their own ship.
Much rather have Creighton, St. Louis, etc.
Like it or not UD does fill a 13000 seat arena and has a rabid following...this is about MONEY, after all. I just hope X is the #1 target of this new league. Remember when the Great Midwest was formed and we were left holding the bag, I wont celebrate till I see it in print, but when I do "it's shots of Crown Royal for all"
Biggest question:
Will this new conference permit alcohol sales at games?
This is a deal breaker.
BREAKING NEWS:
Seven non-FBS football playing members of the Big East will break away from the conference, Gary Parrish reports.
Like it or not UD does fill a 13000 seat arena and has a rabid following...this is about MONEY, after all. I just hope X is the #1 target of this new league. Remember when the Great Midwest was formed and we were left holding the bag, I wont celebrate till I see it in print, but when I do "it's shots of Crown Royal for all"
I can envision the Georgetown and Villanova fans exiting the plane in Dayton for their first conference game.
GT Fan: Muffy, be a lamb and remove my bag from the overhead compartment while I step outside to look arou.....Oh my $#^&$ing God, what the &**(&% is that !%$$#& smell?
Local UD Fan standing by garbage can playing with a watermelon: Y'all got any snuff? I'll let you touch my melon.
GT Fan: Dear God, what have we done?!?!?
BandAid
12-13-2012, 11:42 AM
Biggest question:
Will this new conference permit alcohol sales at games?
This is a deal breaker.
Well, the majority of the teams come from Catholic institutions...
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 11:43 AM
Someone needs to compete with DePaul for the bottom.
Friends I offer you the Dayton Flyers.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 11:44 AM
Like it or not UD does fill a 13000 seat arena and has a rabid following...this is about MONEY, after all. I just hope X is the #1 target of this new league. Remember when the Great Midwest was formed and we were left holding the bag, I wont celebrate till I see it in print, but when I do "it's shots of Crown Royal for all"
It's not seats in some arena that drives this train.
It's TV sets and ads that can be sold.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 11:45 AM
It's not seats in some arena that drives this train.
It's TV sets and ads that can be sold.
8th nationally in tv ratings for college basketball according to ESPN.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 11:47 AM
From Parrish:
But a source told CBSSports.com that those seven schools would target at least three and perhaps five basketball programs to join them, and that Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Creighton and Butler would be among the targets.
Why would you ignore the Virginia market (VCU or Richmond) if you went to 5?
paulxu
12-13-2012, 11:49 AM
8th nationally in tv ratings for college basketball according to ESPN.
That's 8th with a very small number (relatively) of TV sets. You could get the same coverage with just ESPN covering Cincinnati/Dayton as combined market, or CBS/Fox regional taking Ohio as a whole.
danaandvictory
12-13-2012, 11:53 AM
From Parrish:
Why would you ignore the Virginia market (VCU or Richmond) if you went to 5?
VCU is a public school. Richmond is a fine program but doesn't draw the TV viewership or the asses in seats of the others mentioned (Dayton, Creighton especially)
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 11:54 AM
That's 8th with a very small number (relatively) of TV sets. You could get the same coverage with just ESPN covering Cincinnati/Dayton as combined market, or CBS/Fox regional taking Ohio as a whole.
Okay MH, go tell ESPN that the way they measure their ratings is stupid and don't consider Dayton!
Guys, no one watches college basketball on TV anyway. Everything is small number of tv sets. The fact is the hilljacks in Dayton turn on any games, where say in Milwaukee they don't.
That's important.
People in Cleveland do not watch as much college basketball as people in Dayton. Simply having games on in Cleveland, doesn't mean people are turning in. Having games on in Dayton does matter.
It's especially helpful when you have a conference tournament and you want programs where people will travel to the tournament. Or if not, will turn on their TV's.
Like it or not, Dayton does both pretty well.
boozehound
12-13-2012, 11:59 AM
This is going to be awesome.
MHettel
12-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Some feel that we should go to 10 and wait there for a while because targets beyond 10 have nowhere else to go. While that may be true, I think there is huge value in making one decisive move and finalizing conference membership right now. This helps the media rights discussions and solidifes at least one "scetor" of the shifting landscape. Some "safe ground."
If I'm in charge of this, I'm going to 16 schools total. Ultimately the football conferences will get here, so why not do it first? Imagine 4 "main" football conferences, and 5 "main" basketball conferences. All being the same size, it's easy to compare them. Imagine comparing how many NCAA bids each conference got? Or tournament success. You wouldn't have to make any adjustments to make teh comparison, just compare them....
You cant get to 16 by going all Catholic, but I think it can be done with Private schools. BE7+ XU, UD, Butler, SLU, Creighton, Richmond, Davidson and....this is where it gets hard. If you are looking for markets, then Duquesne makes alot of sense. Do they deserve it? Hell no. Does someone need to finish last? Hell Yes. Then I gotta think Detroit makes the next amount of sense using the same reasoning.
Take these 16 teams and split into 2 divisions. But it needs to be mixed up. Gotta make sure that the BE7 get some chances to start new rivalries.
You can go North and South or East and West:
North: Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Providence, SJU, SHU, Butler, Detroit
South: XU, UD, Richmond, GTown, Davidson, Nova, SLU, Duquesne
or
East: Prov, SHU, SJU, GTown, Richmond, Davidson, Nova, Duquesne
West:Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, SLU, XU, UD, Butler, Detroit
Unbalanced scheduling is an unfortunate byproduct here. You play each team once, and then 3 other teams a second time. This allows for rivalries to remain intact, and possibilty to cultivate new ones. Or, maybe just play 15 games. Anyone that would favor an 8 team conference would settle for 14 games, so 15 isn't out of the question. This also allows for more non-con games, which as I've pointed out before is an opportunity to improve RPIs if the scheduling is done with some foresight.
As far as the BE BBall teams "breaking away" it's merely semantics. They have teh ability to disolve the league, and will use that as their "nuclear option" when dealing with teh remainder of the BE to negotiate how much THEY will receive to walk away. there is no exit fee for the BE7, they will get PAID on the way out.
Well, the majority of the teams come from Catholic institutions...
I always assumed not drinking alcohol was a deal breaker for being a Catholic
From Parrish:
Why would you ignore the Virginia market (VCU or Richmond) if you went to 5?
They have to start somewhere, besides with Gtown they have part of the Virginia market.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Man MH LOVES himself divisions!
Some feel that we should go to 10 and wait there for a while because targets beyond 10 have nowhere else to go. While that may be true, I think there is huge value in making one decisive move and finalizing conference membership right now. This helps the media rights discussions and solidifes at least one "scetor" of the shifting landscape. Some "safe ground."
If I'm in charge of this, I'm going to 16 schools total. Ultimately the football conferences will get here, so why not do it first? Imagine 4 "main" football conferences, and 5 "main" basketball conferences. All being the same size, it's easy to compare them. Imagine comparing how many NCAA bids each conference got? Or tournament success. You wouldn't have to make any adjustments to make teh comparison, just compare them....
You cant get to 16 by going all Catholic, but I think it can be done with Private schools. BE7+ XU, UD, Butler, SLU, Creighton, Richmond, Davidson and....this is where it gets hard. If you are looking for markets, then Duquesne makes alot of sense. Do they deserve it? Hell no. Does someone need to finish last? Hell Yes. Then I gotta think Detroit makes the next amount of sense using the same reasoning.
Take these 16 teams and split into 2 divisions. But it needs to be mixed up. Gotta make sure that the BE7 get some chances to start new rivalries.
You can go North and South or East and West:
North: Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Providence, SJU, SHU, Butler, Detroit
South: XU, UD, Richmond, GTown, Davidson, Nova, SLU, Duquesne
or
East: Prov, SHU, SJU, GTown, Richmond, Davidson, Nova, Duquesne
West:Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, SLU, XU, UD, Butler, Detroit
Unbalanced scheduling is an unfortunate byproduct here. You play each team once, and then 3 other teams a second time. This allows for rivalries to remain intact, and possibilty to cultivate new ones. Or, maybe just play 15 games. Anyone that would favor an 8 team conference would settle for 14 games, so 15 isn't out of the question. This also allows for more non-con games, which as I've pointed out before is an opportunity to improve RPIs if the scheduling is done with some foresight.
As far as the BE BBall teams "breaking away" it's merely semantics. They have teh ability to disolve the league, and will use that as their "nuclear option" when dealing with teh remainder of the BE to negotiate how much THEY will receive to walk away. there is no exit fee for the BE7, they will get PAID on the way out.
I'd like them to go to 9 or 10 and leave room for possible addtions of UCONN, ND and Wake Forest.
I'd like them to go to 9 or 10 and leave room for possible addtions of UCONN, ND and Wake Forest.
Excellent point
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 12:16 PM
That would be an interesting move.
drudy23
12-13-2012, 12:57 PM
Nothing like getting good news for Xavier and really bad news for UC on Shootout week.
I really hope this works out. Would be a great conference for us with upgrades and removal of the bottom feeders.
MHettel
12-13-2012, 01:03 PM
I'd like them to go to 9 or 10 and leave room for possible addtions of UCONN, ND and Wake Forest.
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that if you can make one very decisive move that feel final for everyone involved, then you should do it. Waiting around for some other moves just keeps the door open for more turmoil. Lets say you go to 10, then the ACC starts unraveling and all of a sudden the ACC is left with UC, UCONN, Pitt, Duke, Wake and maybe BC? Now, they need 2 football teams and probably would try to grab some BBall as well. Suddenly, GTown and Nova and SJU look pretty attractive, and they are tempted. So our 10 team conference is now facing some defection possibility, and then WE need to go on the offensive...
make one, decisive move which provides stability. That goes ALONG way in an uncertain environment like this. And lets face it, thats a very good conference which touches almost every media market from the Northeast thru the Midwest. Very attractive for all 16 members....
And, for the record, i dont really love divisions, but I do think there is value in having a large conference. The divisions and unbalanced scheduling are simply a byproduct of that, and I accept that as one of the costs of the large conference.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 01:10 PM
It is anything but ridiculous as they have yet to show they can compete. Not saying they won't but they are indeed an unknown. If Stevens were to leave, who knows what Butler becomes. However, that was not the point of my post.
Two. Final. Fours.
drudy23
12-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Butler would belong...and let's face it, so would Dayton. Dayton is a great rivalry for us and a good game for this new conference.
Two. Final. Fours.
LaSalle had a final 4 too before their invite.
George Mason has a recent Final 4 and I would not want to be in a league with them.
Butler struggled in the MCC when XU was there. They have had great success in the last 4 years. If the BE split 4 years ago, VCU and Butler would not even be considered.
I think Butler will do fine but we don't KNOW since they have yet to play a game in the A10.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 01:16 PM
It's not seats in some arena that drives this train.
It's TV sets and ads that can be sold.
Actually, for bball this isn't as true. TV dollars are low enough that other revenue sources are far more relevant than in the football equation.
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that if you can make one very decisive move that feel final for everyone involved, then you should do it. Waiting around for some other moves just keeps the door open for more turmoil. Lets say you go to 10, then the ACC starts unraveling and all of a sudden the ACC is left with UC, UCONN, Pitt, Duke, Wake and maybe BC? Now, they need 2 football teams and probably would try to grab some BBall as well. Suddenly, GTown and Nova and SJU look pretty attractive, and they are tempted. So our 10 team conference is now facing some defection possibility, and then WE need to go on the offensive...
make one, decisive move which provides stability. That goes ALONG way in an uncertain environment like this. And lets face it, thats a very good conference which touches almost every media market from the Northeast thru the Midwest. Very attractive for all 16 members....
And, for the record, i dont really love divisions, but I do think there is value in having a large conference. The divisions and unbalanced scheduling are simply a byproduct of that, and I accept that as one of the costs of the large conference.
I don't see any benefit to going to 16 teams NOW. Georgetown, etc. would still leave a 16 team league if UCONN, etc. came calling on them for a hybrid ACC.
BMoreX
12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
LaSalle had a final 4 too before their invite.
George Mason has a recent Final 4 and I would not want to be in a league with them.
Butler struggled in the MCC when XU was there. They have had great success in the last 4 years. If the BE split 4 years ago, VCU and Butler would not even be considered.
I think Butler will do fine but we don't KNOW since they have yet to play a game in the A10.
I don't like Butler, but they've made the tourney 5 of the last 6 years and 10 of the last 16.
Xu Red Dogg
12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
I think it is going to be a war between Saint Louis or Dayton for the last spot.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 01:18 PM
LaSalle had a final 4 too before their invite.
George Mason has a recent Final 4 and I would not want to be in a league with them.
Butler struggled in the MCC when XU was there. They have had great success in the last 4 years. If the BE split 4 years ago, VCU and Butler would not even be considered.
I think Butler will do fine but we don't KNOW since they have yet to play a game in the A10.
Who cares. Until now the barometer has been recent NCAA Tourney success. You don't get much better than theirs. That being the case, you choose to change the barometer.
I don't like Butler, but they've made the tourney 5 of the last 6 years and 10 of the last 16.
So. Richmond dominated the bids out of the CAA and after year one in the A10 kind of struggled.
aceylone7777
12-13-2012, 01:19 PM
My money: The 7 choose X, UD, BU, SLU, Creighton.
Who cares. Until now the barometer has been recent NCAA Tourney success. You don't get much better than theirs. That being the case, you choose to change the barometer.
I'm not changing anything. Butler has been a bit of a flash in the pan and we certainly don't know if they can even compete year in and year out in the A10 let alone the new BE. Can they? Sure.
BBC 08
12-13-2012, 01:21 PM
Can somebody explain to me the appeal of Creighton? I just don't get it.
muskienick
12-13-2012, 01:30 PM
MCXU,
You suggested the following:
8 Team League
Xavier
Butler
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns (keeps the New York Market and beats the hell out of Fordham)
Depaul (Gets the Chicago Market and has a close relationship with Marquette
VCU or Richmond not both ( I really can't decide on this one, both have pros and cons but I know VCU is all in on basketball)
I think there will be no 8-member leagues formed --- they would have only 14 league games. Furthermore, Providence and Seton Hall will not vote along with the other five to dissolve the Big East unless they have a commitment from the other five "dissolvers" to stay together in a future Conference.
9 Team League (Ideal for scheduling, play each team 2x)
Add one of the following to the above 8-Member league:
St. Louis
Dayton
Creighton
UMASS or Providence or Rhode Island but only 1 (just to have something in the New England Market)
If there is a 9-member Conference formed with Xavier being one of the two added to the BE7, I believe the obvious choice of the other would be Butler. The Bulldogs would add an attractive media market and considerable prestige to the Conference and not create the duplication of media market that Dayton would bring.
Since Seton Hall and Providence are already in for the reason stated above, we are already at 10 members. The next step up from 10 would be 12. Of the ones you list for possibilities, UMass is out becauase of its lust for a full membership in a better football conference. Providence would have trumped URI in a landslide even if it were not in already. That leaves two spots open to get to 12. That number almost demands two divisions. To simplify things, those divisions would be East and West. There are already six in the East (G-Town, Providence, Richmond or VCU, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova). Therefore, two would have to be added to the West that already has Butler, DePaul, Marquette, and Xavier. To avoid duplication of media markets, thhose two would most likely be Creighton and St. Louis.
Therefore, here's how things could play out:
Big East 9: Butler, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, and Xavier
Big East 10: Butler, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Richmond/VCU, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier
Big East 12:
Eastern Division: Georgetown, Providence, Richmond or VCU, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova
Western Division: Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis, and Xavier[COLOR]
At least that's how I envision things happening. But time will tell.[/QUOTE]
BandAid
12-13-2012, 01:30 PM
Can somebody explain to me the appeal of Creighton? I just don't get it.
ummm, hello - so I can see Xavier play in person...
GoMuskies
12-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me the appeal of Creighton? I just don't get it.
As compared to, say, DePaul? The idea of a great basketball program that regularly fills a 16,000 seat arena seems like a good thing to me.
bleedXblue
12-13-2012, 01:52 PM
Creighton has a great following and has been winning for years.
Would love them in the conference except geography may be big hurdle to overcome.......not for BB , but for all of the other sports and costs thats go along with traveling from the east coast !
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 01:54 PM
As compared to, say, DePaul?
DePaul is in a city that's easy to get in and out of, and lots of talent to recruit.
Omaha has great steaks.
aceylone7777
12-13-2012, 01:55 PM
DePaul is in a city that's easy to get in and out of, and lots of talent to recruit.
Omaha has great steaks.
Think Bandaid might have something to say about that...
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Big East 12:
Eastern Division: Georgetown, Providence, Richmond or VCU, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova
Western Division: Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis, and Xavier
Oh man I hope this happens. Give me a 12 team conference with divisions and then head off to Brooklyn as the Number 1 seed of the WEST!
GoMuskies
12-13-2012, 02:00 PM
DePaul is in a city that's easy to get in and out of, and lots of talent to recruit.
Omaha has great steaks.
This is a great argument for taking Georgia State over Xavier.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:02 PM
If all of this has taught us anything, this is about BRAND. The BE7 aren't what they used to be, but the leaders of the coup (Georgetown, Villanova and to a lesser extent St. Joe's and Marquette) would command more butts in seats, more eyes on TV's, more corporate sponsorships, and more ancillary revenue than the vast majority of their potential suitors. And they know that. That's why they don't want to give up the Big East BRAND.
That being the case, one must assume that they are more concerned about BRAND going forward than the historical or even recent success of the individual programs. Now before you all leap out of your seats, that doesn't mean that either historical or even recent success is irrelevant; it just means that BRAND is likely a superior factor in their eyes.
Taking that to the next level, the top remaining BRANDS out there are fairly indisputable. In no particular order, they are (i) Xavier, (ii) Butler, and (iii) Gonzaga. Obviously Gonzaga has a geography problem. The other two are shoe-ins.
Beyond them, it's a bit of a log-jam among (i) Dayton, (ii) St. Louis, (iii) Creighton and (iv) VCU. Richmond may fit the profile of the other schools, but from a brand perspective it's not comparable.
VCU is certainly the darling of the bunch, but it just made the leap to the A-10 and the BE7 may not yet consider them "on par". The rest really are probably a wash. I still have to think that adding a market may be attractive (which would DQ Dayton), but at the same time nobody has any allegiances to either Creighton or St. Louis -- whereas XU reportedly has at least some degree of allegiance to Dayton. Plus, ESPN reportedly loves Dayton (evidenced by, among other things, years of them getting the early Saturday afternoon ESPN game even when they weren't particularly good).
I think it's a toss-up between those three. And it's probably very close. But based on the above two factors, as well as the fact that they are "the game" in town in Dayton, I suspect the choice will be Dayton.
I don't see them going beyond 10 right now.
boozehound
12-13-2012, 02:04 PM
This is a great argument for taking Georgia State over Xavier.
I'm not sure how appealing DePaul is either, but they are one of the 'original 7' so I would say that they are definitely in.
They are also an 'easy' team to keep in even though they suck, since they are located in a major market with plentiful travel options.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:05 PM
This is a great argument for taking Georgia State over Xavier.
Cincinnati doesn't have great steaks.
BandAid
12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
DePaul is in a city that's easy to get in and out of, and lots of talent to recruit.
Omaha has great steaks.
Think Bandaid might have something to say about that...
Our steaks are pretty damn good...not gonna deny it.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure how appealing DePaul is either, but they are one of the 'original 7' so I would say that they are definitely in.
They are also an 'easy' team to keep in even though they suck, since they are located in a major market with plentiful travel options.
Does the city of Chicago mean anything to anyone?
aceylone7777
12-13-2012, 02:11 PM
Does the city of Chicago mean anything to anyone?
No doubt Chicago's a hotbed. But they can't GET the majority of talent in Chicago!
BandAid
12-13-2012, 02:14 PM
I would be willing to share some of my steak, wait...ok, a bite of my steak with you if you let Creighton in the new Big East.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:14 PM
DePaul's not going anywhere. The BE7 are sticking together. Does anyone really think that DePaul would vote to dissolve the BE without assurances that it was going along for the ride? Does anyone think it even has to be stated? THEY ARE IN. Feel free to move on. Or, if you prefer, continue the useless debate.
danaandvictory
12-13-2012, 02:26 PM
I still have to think that adding a market may be attractive (which would DQ Dayton), but at the same time nobody has any allegiances to either Creighton or St. Louis -- whereas XU reportedly has at least some degree of allegiance to Dayton.
I would think that SLU's lengthy tenure in the Great Midwest/CUSA with Marquette and DePaul might at least leave some traces of institutional affiliation. Plus Creighton and SLU seem better positioned than UD for immediate postseason success.
I honestly have no clue how tight institutionally Xavier and Dayton are, and whether X would go to bat for UD, especially if the party that stood to lose out was a fellow Jesuit institution like Creighton.
I think it's a toss-up between those three. And it's probably very close. But based on the above two factors, as well as the fact that they are "the game" in town in Dayton, I suspect the choice will be Dayton.
From an outsider's perspective I think SLU is the most attractive choice after X and Butler. But if they went for Dayton it would not surprise me.
If all of this has taught us anything, this is about BRAND. The BE7 aren't what they used to be, but the leaders of the coup (Georgetown, Villanova and to a lesser extent St. Joe's and Marquette) would command more butts in seats, more eyes on TV's, more corporate sponsorships, and more ancillary revenue than the vast majority of their potential suitors. And they know that. That's why they don't want to give up the Big East BRAND.
That being the case, one must assume that they are more concerned about BRAND going forward than the historical or even recent success of the individual programs. Now before you all leap out of your seats, that doesn't mean that either historical or even recent success is irrelevant; it just means that BRAND is likely a superior factor in their eyes.
Taking that to the next level, the top remaining BRANDS out there are fairly indisputable. In no particular order, they are (i) Xavier, (ii) Butler, and (iii) Gonzaga. Obviously Gonzaga has a geography problem. The other two are shoe-ins.
Beyond them, it's a bit of a log-jam among (i) Dayton, (ii) St. Louis, (iii) Creighton and (iv) VCU. Richmond may fit the profile of the other schools, but from a brand perspective it's not comparable.
VCU is certainly the darling of the bunch, but it just made the leap to the A-10 and the BE7 may not yet consider them "on par". The rest really are probably a wash. I still have to think that adding a market may be attractive (which would DQ Dayton), but at the same time nobody has any allegiances to either Creighton or St. Louis -- whereas XU reportedly has at least some degree of allegiance to Dayton. Plus, ESPN reportedly loves Dayton (evidenced by, among other things, years of them getting the early Saturday afternoon ESPN game even when they weren't particularly good).
I think it's a toss-up between those three. And it's probably very close. But based on the above two factors, as well as the fact that they are "the game" in town in Dayton, I suspect the choice will be Dayton.
I don't see them going beyond 10 right now.
Then you just have to do this all over again in a year or two....go to 12 and see how that work out for 3 years.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
No doubt Chicago's a hotbed. But they can't GET the majority of talent in Chicago!
I don't care if DePaul can't get it, I just like the access.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:34 PM
Then you just have to do this all over again in a year or two....go to 12 and see how that work out for 3 years.
Why? A basketball conference doesn't have to be big. In fact, there are a ton of reasons why a smaller basketball conference would be better. Add a few quality programs now, then wait to see how things shake out.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Why? A basketball conference doesn't have to be big. In fact, there are a ton of reasons why a smaller basketball conference would be better. Add a few quality programs now, then wait to see how things shake out.
Exactly. Just take a look at history with the BE and ACC.
They bloated themselves with football that wasn't important to their demographics. They'd be stupid to repeat a part of that simply by expanding.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:39 PM
I would think that SLU's lengthy tenure in the Great Midwest/CUSA with Marquette and DePaul might at least leave some traces of institutional affiliation. Plus Creighton and SLU seem better positioned than UD for immediate postseason success.
I honestly have no clue how tight institutionally Xavier and Dayton are, and whether X would go to bat for UD, especially if the party that stood to lose out was a fellow Jesuit institution like Creighton.
From an outsider's perspective I think SLU is the most attractive choice after X and Butler. But if they went for Dayton it would not surprise me.
I don't think Dayton necessarily *deserves* to be in, but their BRAND can't really be denied. Is there any non-BCS program that gets more undeserved credit than Dayton? I can't think of any.
Purely as a basketball fan, I'd want (i) Gonzaga, (ii) VCU, or (iii) Creighton. In that order. But obviously this isn't a decision made solely for the benefit of basketball fans, and there are very good reasons why none of those would work out -- leaving Dayton and St. Louis as the next best options. I'm not sure who I'd rather have of those two. Dayton does have some history and has shown a willingness to support its program -- they made a great hire with Archie. St. Louis, sans Rick Majerus, is a big question mark.
BandAid
12-13-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't think Dayton is that big of a brand. I never heard of them before my brother went to X in 2001. They certainly haven't made any big tourney splashes since then.
Gonzaga is a huge brand. VCU is hot at the moment. I bet most passing fans know VCU better than Dayton. Creighton's brand has diminished since the 90s and the emergence of Wichita St probably has something to do witht that.
boozehound
12-13-2012, 02:51 PM
I don't care if DePaul can't get it, I just like the access.
It does give schools the ability to tell a recruit from the Chicagoland area that all their family and friends will be able to see them in person at least once a year when your school plays at DePaul. Also, since it's DePaul, they should have no problem getting tickets. That's about it.
DC Muskie
12-13-2012, 02:59 PM
That's about it.
What else do you want? That's the point of moving to and playing in a conference that allows us to travel to east coast cities and play in talent rich areas like DC. We can tell a kid "Come to Xavier and your friends and family will get to see you play at GW every year."
Of course with expansion it would be every other year, which is stupid. A perfect reason not to expand beyond 12 teams.
If all we get is great talent out of Chicago so they can watch us beat DePaul's ass every year, that's all they need to do. Whatever else they bring to the table is gravy.
I'm sure they have good gravy somewhere in Chicago.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 03:00 PM
Tom Eiser @Eiser_XU_Sports
@CoachChrisMack slated to join @MoEgger1530 on ESPN 1530 this afternoon at 4:20 p.m. #LetsGoX
STL_XUfan
12-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Tom Eiser @Eiser_XU_Sports
@CoachChrisMack slated to join @MoEgger1530 on ESPN 1530 this afternoon at 4:20 p.m. #LetsGoX
If Mack knew anything for sure they wouldn't let him go on radio.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 03:06 PM
I don't think Dayton is that big of a brand. I never heard of them before my brother went to X in 2001. They certainly haven't made any big tourney splashes since then.
See, you just made the mistake of confusing recent success with brand identity. I agree that Dayton doesn't deserve its brand identity, but it nevertheless has it. Whether that's because ESPN have given it to Dayton is an interesting question (it's sort of a chicken or the egg thing), but it is ultimately irrelevant for this analysis. The people that matter believe that Dayton is a valuable brand, and likely moreso than St. Louis or Creighton.
I really don't think there's much of a battle on the "brand" issue when it comes to Dayton vs. SLU vs. Creighton. The question I think they will have to decide is whether that factor overrides the others (including the market overlap with Xavier).
MCXU,
You suggested the following:
8 Team League
Xavier
Butler
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns (keeps the New York Market and beats the hell out of Fordham)
Depaul (Gets the Chicago Market and has a close relationship with Marquette
VCU or Richmond not both ( I really can't decide on this one, both have pros and cons but I know VCU is all in on basketball)
I think there will be no 8-member leagues formed --- they would have only 14 league games. Furthermore, Providence and Seton Hall will not vote along with the other five to dissolve the Big East unless they have a commitment from the other five "dissolvers" to stay together in a future Conference.
9 Team League (Ideal for scheduling, play each team 2x)
Add one of the following to the above 8-Member league:
St. Louis
Dayton
Creighton
UMASS or Providence or Rhode Island but only 1 (just to have something in the New England Market)
If there is a 9-member Conference formed with Xavier being one of the two added to the BE7, I believe the obvious choice of the other would be Butler. The Bulldogs would add an attractive media market and considerable prestige to the Conference and not create the duplication of media market that Dayton would bring.
Since Seton Hall and Providence are already in for the reason stated above, we are already at 10 members. The next step up from 10 would be 12. Of the ones you list for possibilities, UMass is out becauase of its lust for a full membership in a better football conference. Providence would have trumped URI in a landslide even if it were not in already. That leaves two spots open to get to 12. That number almost demands two divisions. To simplify things, those divisions would be East and West. There are already six in the East (G-Town, Providence, Richmond or VCU, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova). Therefore, two would have to be added to the West that already has Butler, DePaul, Marquette, and Xavier. To avoid duplication of media markets, thhose two would most likely be Creighton and St. Louis.
Therefore, here's how things could play out:
Big East 9: Butler, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, and Xavier
Big East 10: Butler, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Richmond/VCU, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Villanova, and Xavier
Big East 12:
Eastern Division: Georgetown, Providence, Richmond or VCU, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova
Western Division: Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis, and Xavier[COLOR]
At least that's how I envision things happening. But time will tell.[/QUOTE]
Great analysis and I agree with your conclusions, I am happy with any of those outcomes.
coasterville95
12-13-2012, 03:15 PM
Or maybe they do know something and who would be the best radio guest to invite. Then again it is Shootout week.
So is the 4th floor of Cintas on Ft Knox level lock down right about now.
BandAid
12-13-2012, 03:20 PM
See, you just made the mistake of confusing recent success with brand identity. I agree that Dayton doesn't deserve its brand identity, but it nevertheless has it. Whether that's because ESPN have given it to Dayton is an interesting question (it's sort of a chicken or the egg thing), but it is ultimately irrelevant for this analysis. The people that matter believe that Dayton is a valuable brand, and likely moreso than St. Louis or Creighton.
I really don't think there's much of a battle on the "brand" issue when it comes to Dayton vs. SLU vs. Creighton. The question I think they will have to decide is whether that factor overrides the others (including the market overlap with Xavier).
Clearly I know nothing. How do you measure brand?
XUOWNSUC
12-13-2012, 03:22 PM
If Mack knew anything for sure they wouldn't let him go on radio.
You are giving our PR department too much credit - see last year's Crostown Shootout postgame interviews.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Clearly I know nothing. How do you measure brand?
It's admittedly more art than science. But there's a reason they are ALWAYS mentioned in the discussion. There is a reason that ESPN has had them on TV more than just about any other non-BCS school aside from us, Gonzaga and Butler for the last decade. And there is a reason why they are always getting far more votes in polls (especially preseason) than they deserve. Like I said, they don't necessarily deserve it, but they seem to have more brand identity than SLU and Creighton.
BandAid
12-13-2012, 03:34 PM
It's admittedly more art than science. But there's a reason they are ALWAYS mentioned in the discussion. There is a reason that ESPN has had them on TV more than just about any other non-BCS school aside from us, Gonzaga and Butler for the last decade. And there is a reason why they are always getting far more votes in polls (especially preseason) than they deserve. Like I said, they don't necessarily deserve it, but they seem to have more brand identity than SLU and Creighton.
We probably agree over which order the brands currently are. I'd put these four in order with VCU, Dayton, SLU, and Creighton. I think Shaka Smart by himself is a bigger brand than the others.
Now, which brand do you think has the most growth potential?
I personally think it SLU has more potential than Dayton. And that shouldn't be left out of the expansion equation.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 03:37 PM
There is a reason that ESPN has had them on TV more than just about any other non-BCS school aside from us, Gonzaga and Butler for the last decade.
I'm thinking that's a stretch. Dayton is on ESPNU once this year...probably because they are playing Temple. And once on ESPN2...probably because they are playing Xavier. I'm not sure that Dayton has much of a brand in the last decade. (or two).
RealDeal
12-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Now, which brand do you think has the most growth potential?
ud's growth will always be tied to Dayton the city, and it's shrinking.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 03:39 PM
We probably agree over which order the brands currently are. I'd put these four in order with VCU, Dayton, SLU, and Creighton. I think Shaka Smart by himself is a bigger brand than the others.
Now, which brand do you think has the most growth potential?
I personally think it SLU has more potential than Dayton. And that shouldn't be left out of the expansion equation.
I was very tempted to put VCU on the list. I didn't for a few reasons. First, I don't think it fits the profile of the presumed conference. They are public and they are big. I also think there may be an issue with them coming out of the CAA and not even having played an A-10 game yet. (I know the same would be true for Butler, but I think they will get a pass on that).
Separately, I was trying to figure out what exactly their brand is. I agree they have one. But I'm not sure it's still not "Cinderella". Butler has risen above that, but I'm not sure VCU has. Dayton, SLU and even Creighton seem to be beyond that. I'm not sure VCU has. But I very well may be over thinking (or even under thinking) it.
From a growth perspective, I must confess to not knowing much about SLU's prospects. I know they built a new (and reportedly gorgeous) on-campus arena. That's big. The question for me is whether it can be a destination for a top-notch coach in the wake of Majerus's passing. Dayton seems to have the cache to attract top talent. (Gregory was a bit of a dud, but he was a "catch" when they got him. And Archie seems to be the real deal.)
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 03:40 PM
I'm thinking that's a stretch. Dayton is on ESPNU once this year...probably because they are playing Temple. And once on ESPN2...probably because they are playing Xavier. I'm not sure that Dayton has much of a brand in the last decade. (or two).
I think you say that because you want to believe it. It's fairly obvious to me that their reputation far outweighs their performance. That gulf is made up by only one thing: brand identity.
MHettel
12-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Can somebody explain to me the appeal of Creighton? I just don't get it.
They are pretty good at basketball.
They give us access to a new market- not NYC or LA, but a new market where good hoops is hard to find in about a 250 mile radius.
School is similar to the BE7 and XU, SLU, etc.
Kind of defines the Western boundary of the conference, but is still far enough north to make sense of Marquette.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 03:48 PM
They are pretty good at basketball.
They give us access to a new market- not NYC or LA, but a new market where good hoops is hard to find in about a 250 mile radius.
School is similar to the BE7 and XU, SLU, etc.
Kind of defines the Western boundary of the conference, but is still far enough north to make sense of Marquette.
I agree with all of this, but I think the addition of a new market is somewhat less meaningful for a basketball-centric conference. 10 years ago (during the height of the Dana Altman tenure) they were probably a no-brainer for something like this. Now they are probably behind Dayton and SLU in the pecking order.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 04:10 PM
Why do we have two threads on the same topic?
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Sure sounds like Bobinski is ready to go
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2012/12/13/bobinski-a-10-a-terrific-home/
That being said, our overriding responsibility here at Xavier is to make sure that we’re in the very best situation for the long term for our athletic program. And the Atlantic 10 has been that for a long number of years here. It’s been a terrific home for us. Should other opportunities to strengthen the Atlantic 10 come our way, we’d be interested in that. We have not been in any way, shape or form a catalyst for any for these things. We’ve just tried to continue to be a good member of the Atlantic 10, a productive member, and I think by any measure we are, we have been.
It’s just a really interesting time. There’s a lot of uncertainty out there. And again, our override is just to be able to make sure that Xavier is best positioned for long-term health and stability in the college athletic world, whatever that might mean.
waggy
12-13-2012, 04:17 PM
These moderators blow.
American X
12-13-2012, 04:26 PM
Why do we have two threads on the same topic?
It's a Festivus miracle.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 04:28 PM
I think you say that because you want to believe it. It's fairly obvious to me that their reputation far outweighs their performance. That gulf is made up by only one thing: brand identity.
Whatever "brand" recognition Dayton once had, I think it has long gone for anyone under 40 if it even was there.
Where I live, you can ask anyone about Xavier...and they know Xavier from college basketball.
Dayton? They don't even know they have a team.
Muskie
12-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Why do we have two threads on the same topic?
Because the other thread is to deal with who you'd like to see in the new conference, while this one is focusing on all the conference changes. At least that's what I told myself...
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-13-2012, 04:34 PM
Because the other thread is to deal with who you'd like to see in the new conference, while this one is focusing on all the conference changes. At least that's what I told myself...
Haha. I thought the plan was to get this thread over 1,000,000 views? Or at least thats what I told myself...
coasterville95
12-13-2012, 04:39 PM
The other thread is obstenibly for those posts that directly involve our Musketeers and thse that don't.
We live in exciting times, I just hope the Big East 7 have the same high opinion of Xavier that we do!
Also, even if they do, it has to be done in a way that best benefits us, I'd imagine as the details get firmed up, the key people at Xavier will have the finance and marketing departments look everything over with a fine tooth comb.
According to the USA Today article - the Big East 7 hold 7 of the votes needed (majority of 10) votes needed to disolve (UCF, UCH and UConn being the dissenting votes) How does the Big East react, the one comment I read from a Big East official "I don't think the 7 have the time or manpower to force disolution. Is that a threat? A challenge? Big East Hoops 7 - I think thats a Triple Dog Dare to vote for disolutionment - TONIGHT! EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY! Go at it guys. :)
At least it souds like they may have an exit fee dodge - in that there was a clause written in that if either the football schools or non football schools every wanted to leave en masse...
boozehound
12-13-2012, 04:48 PM
I expect them to use their power to dissolve the league to negotiate a stake of the league assets. I'm not sure that it will actually happen. You never know though.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 04:51 PM
Whatever "brand" recognition Dayton once had, I think it has long gone for anyone under 40 if it even was there.
Where I live, you can ask anyone about Xavier...and they know Xavier from college basketball.
Dayton? They don't even know they have a team.
With all due respect, you do live in South Carolina...
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 04:55 PM
I expect them to use their power to dissolve the league to negotiate a stake of the league assets. I'm not sure that it will actually happen. You never know though.
I think you are right. I don't think they want to be seen as the ones who dissolved the conference, and I also don't think they want the risk of losing the Big East name (although frankly I don't think that carries much weight) or the MSG contract (which they may lose regardless).
But I think they SHOULD dissolve it. It's the best way to guarantee their fair share of assets (i.e., $$$), and frankly someone needs to put the nail in the coffin -- why not the Catholics (with a prayer).
SM#24
12-13-2012, 04:56 PM
BE7 - Dissolve the conference or just leave ?
What's at stake:
- Big East name
- exit fees from the previously departed
- NCAA tourney credits
- tourney at MSG
- anything else ?
My guess is that the biggest negotiation will be the exit fees and tourney credits.
The Big East name means more to the bb schools than the fb schools. Does a fb conference with 13 teams and only 3 actually in the East (UConn, Temple, Navy) really want to market themsleves as the Big East ? They will be made fun of coast-to-coast. If anything they should try and buy the Big South name since that's where the majority of their members are. I'm just wondering how bad StJ/Gtown/Vill want to keep the BE name.
Tourney at MSG - I'm guessing that MSG may not want either conference. I think they may not want any single conference on a permanent basis but rather rotate amongst the BE7 league, ACC and Big Ten, along with more NCAA tourney dates. I can't imagine they want anything to do with the BE fb league.
MHettel
12-13-2012, 05:29 PM
I expect them to use their power to dissolve the league to negotiate a stake of the league assets. I'm not sure that it will actually happen. You never know though.
Exactly. They wont dissolve the league. They will use the THREAT of dissolving the leage as a way to get a bunch of money on their way out. Cause if they DO disolve the league, then they would get soem of the money anyway, and the remaining football teams all suddenly become free-agents.... dont want that....
paulxu
12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
With all due respect, you do live in South Carolina...
True enough. But living in LA I'm impressed that you may run into people who recognize Dayton as a basketball school.
Somehow I don't think so.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 05:39 PM
True enough. But living in LA I'm impressed that you may run into people who recognize Dayton as a basketball school.
Somehow I don't think so.
Can't say that I have asked. But I can tell you that we used to do joint XU/Dayton viewing parties for the games, and the Dayton contingent was about 3-4 times the XU contingent. And Dayton wasn't t even good.
paulxu
12-13-2012, 06:03 PM
Can't say that I have asked. But I can tell you that we used to do joint XU/Dayton viewing parties for the games, and the Dayton contingent was about 3-4 times the XU contingent. And Dayton wasn't t even good.
Good point...but those are alumni. They probably are not a good reflection of brand awareness in the general population.
I do live in the South, and 6 out of the last 8 NCAA champions are from the South. Despite it being a hotbed of college football, they take their basketball seriously in a lot of places. And Dayton is on nobody's radar. Xavier pops up every year...probably because of NCAA tournament exposure.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 06:07 PM
Good point...but those are alumni. They probably are not a good reflection of brand awareness in the general population.
I do live in the South, and 6 out of the last 8 NCAA champions are from the South. Despite it being a hotbed of college football, they take their basketball seriously in a lot of places. And Dayton is on nobody's radar. Xavier pops up every year...probably because of NCAA tournament exposure.
Nobody's disputing that Xavier (or Butler) have more brand awareness than Dayton. FAR MORE. The question is whether Dayton has more brand awareness than SLU or Creighton. I tend to think they do, although we're admittedly getting close to the bottom of the "brand barrel" at that point.
coasterville95
12-13-2012, 06:24 PM
How does channel 12 run a piece about what this could mean for Xavier - and then go out to the field for a live interview from Coach Cronin ??!???!!!
He sounded like a typical fan boy - we have final fours, national titles, etc.
boozehound
12-13-2012, 06:29 PM
I think you are right. I don't think they want to be seen as the ones who dissolved the conference, and I also don't think they want the risk of losing the Big East name (although frankly I don't think that carries much weight) or the MSG contract (which they may lose regardless).
But I think they SHOULD dissolve it. It's the best way to guarantee their fair share of assets (i.e., $$$), and frankly someone needs to put the nail in the coffin -- why not the Catholics (with a prayer).
Maybe, but I'm sure it's better for everyone if a reasonably amicable split is reached. Dissolution of the league could lead to drawn out legal battles, etc. I'm sure they are prepared for that if it comes to it, but they are probably better off trying to negotiate something favorable first.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 06:49 PM
Maybe, but I'm sure it's better for everyone if a reasonably amicable split is reached. Dissolution of the league could lead to drawn out legal battles, etc. I'm sure they are prepared for that if it comes to it, but they are probably better off trying to negotiate something favorable first.
As a litigator, I can't argue with that. Settlement is almost always better than protracted litigation.
XUOWNSUC
12-13-2012, 07:16 PM
When can we start calling uc mid-major?
Masterofreality
12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
Meanwhile.....
NOBODY WANTS SucKS!
Now it's to the point where 7 of their former league-mates are running away from the Borecats as fast as they can.
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahH AHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Masterofreality
12-13-2012, 07:35 PM
When can we start calling uc mid-major?
I already call them "Steppingstone".
BMoreX
12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
It's just so damn refreshing that we appear to be a lock in this new conference if we want it. Clear and away the #1 choice.
I'd be s**tting my pants if I was a Dayton, SLU fan.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 07:47 PM
Meanwhile.....
NOBODY WANTS SucKS!
Now it's to the point where 7 of their former league-mates are running away from the Borecats as fast as they can.
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahH AHAHA!!!!!!!!!
I can't imagine them not ending up in the ACC becauise I can't imagine Tuberville signing on without assurances that was going to happen. If anything, I am guessing this provides the ACC with cover to poach UConn and UC and -- when FSU bolts -- USF. The big losers in all of this? Temple and Memphis. I sorta feel bad for Memphis.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 07:48 PM
It's just so damn refreshing that we appear to be a lock in this new conference if we want it. Clear and away the #1 choice.
I'd be s**tting my pants if I was a Dayton, SLU fan.
The A-10 will still be solid. And whichever doesn't get called up will finally have a shot at winning for a change.
RoseyMuskie
12-13-2012, 08:12 PM
@McMurphyESPN: Big East hoops schools can't dissolve league, sources told @espn. Can leave as group w/out paying exit fees, but must wait 27 months
Snag in the road.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 08:15 PM
@McMurphyESPN: Big East hoops schools can't dissolve league, sources told @espn. Can leave as group w/out paying exit fees, but must wait 27 months
Snag in the road.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on this front. I'm not sure anyone knows the answers. Which means lawyers. And most likely settlement.
Masterofreality
12-13-2012, 08:26 PM
I can't imagine them not ending up in the ACC becauise I can't imagine Tuberville signing on without assurances that was going to happen. If anything, I am guessing this provides the ACC with cover to poach UConn and UC and -- when FSU bolts -- USF. The big losers in all of this? Temple and Memphis. I sorta feel bad for Memphis.
SucKS is an abject mess. They have a horrible athletic budget, substandard facilities and it has been noted how their fans are fair weather. The ACC gains nothing by adding them. UConn and USF would be the choices, in my opinion. Even Temple would be aheaad of SucKS in a pecking order to me because the Philly market would be accessed. All of thoseschools are East Coast and they replace the Florida market. They pick up nothing with SucKS.
You really think that there will be any TV ratings for a SucKS ACC game when it's up against Big 10 football? No freaking way when they can barely get 20,000 to a national TV game.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 08:39 PM
SucKS is an abject mess. They have a horrible athletic budget, substandard facilities and it has been noted how their fans are fair weather. The ACC gains nothing by adding them. UConn and USF would be the choices, in my opinion. Even Temple would be aheaad of SucKS in a pecking order to me because the Philly market would be accessed. All of thoseschools are East Coast and they replace the Florida market. They pick up nothing with SucKS.
You really think that there will be any TV ratings for a SucKS ACC game when it's up against Big 10 football? No freaking way when they can barely get 20,000 to a national TV game.
My opinion doesn't matter. The ACC isn't adding USF until FSU leaves. In the meantime, though, they will likely add UConn and UC because that's what ESPN wants. I don't know why that's what ESPN wants. That's above my pay grade.
Masterofreality
12-13-2012, 09:15 PM
My opinion doesn't matter. The ACC isn't adding USF until FSU leaves. In the meantime, though, they will likely add UConn and UC because that's what ESPN wants. I don't know why that's what ESPN wants. That's above my pay grade.
With all due respect, how do you know what ESPN wants? Why wouldn't they want Temple? Bigger market, higher football attendance, better basketball, east coast location. Also a stop off point to UConn on a basketball road trip.
Again, SucKS adds nothing......Nothing. They have been passed on numerous times.
BMoreX
12-13-2012, 09:21 PM
David Woods @DavidWoods007
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reporting Xavier & Butler will leave A-10, join Big East's Catholic 7 in unnamed league.
Retweeted by Rick Broering
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 09:29 PM
With all due respect, how do you know what ESPN wants? Why wouldn't they want Temple? Bigger market, higher football attendance, better basketball, east coast location. Also a stop off point to UConn on a basketball road trip.
Again, SucKS adds nothing......Nothing. They have been passed on numerous times.
I have no inside information, but the signs all point in that direction. And with all due respect, your disdain for UC probably doesn't carry any weight outside of your walls and this board. So we are both flying blind. I guess we'll just have to see who is right.
Nigel Tufnel
12-13-2012, 09:44 PM
As a litigator, I can't argue with that. Settlement is almost always better than protracted litigation for the parties. Protracted litigation is only good for the lawyers' billable hours.
There...I think that's a little more detailed and accurate. We both know many firms that are completely unreasonable because they have clients with deep pockets and WANT litigation to pad their pockets. Probably not at this level...but there are lots of litigious law firms.
Masterofreality
12-13-2012, 09:46 PM
I have no inside information, but the signs all point in that direction. And with all due respect, your disdain for UC probably doesn't carry any weight outside of your walls and this board. So we are both flying blind. I guess we'll just have to see who is right.
Not just disdain, based on facts. Bad facilities, bad fan base, no money. Passed over before with no advocate.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 09:49 PM
There...I think that's a little more detailed and accurate. We both know many firms that are completely unreasonable because they have clients with deep pockets and WANT litigation to pad their pockets. Probably not at this level...but there are lots of litigious law firms.
I can't disagree with that. But sometimes our clients leave us no choice but to litigate.
LA Muskie
12-13-2012, 09:50 PM
Not just disdain, based on facts. Bad facilities, bad fan base, no money. Passed over before with no advocate.
No doubt they were passed over before. But there is likely still movement, and there are only a few remaining options.
jhelmes37
12-13-2012, 09:50 PM
If X gets a nice, new league.......and UC is tossed aside like a latchkey child.......I will freaking RELISH telling any Bearcats fan within 100 miles of me how our program is better due to conference affiliation. And I mean RELISH. And will laugh every time I do it.
I have to stop talking about it before I get a boner.
Nigel Tufnel
12-13-2012, 10:04 PM
I can't disagree with that. But sometimes our clients leave us no choice but to litigate.
That's obviously true...and those are the best kinds of clients to line your pockets with...litigious "principled" clients with deep pockets. My point was that there are a lot of firms that take cases that should be easily settled...but take unreasonable positions, do ridiculously frivolous discovery, depose everyone and anyone possible, and then settle the case at the last hour (when it could have been settled 9 months earlier at the same terms)...just to line their pockets. Some will even just litigate it and get smashed...but they still get their fees. I HATE attorneys and firms that do that crap.
Juice
12-14-2012, 03:21 AM
If X gets a nice, new league.......and UC is tossed aside like a latchkey child.......I will freaking RELISH telling any Bearcats fan within 100 miles of me how our program is better due to conference affiliation. And I mean RELISH. And will laugh every time I do it.
I have to stop talking about it before I get a boner.
I wholeheartedly agree with this but I think it is only a year or two before they get into the ACC as other conferences pick off more teams from it.
paulxu
12-14-2012, 05:33 AM
Realignment theory #4,259:
Maybe the presidents of the BE 7 looked around and decided that within the next few months, the BE would finally implode (UConn gone), and the next step was the ACC to implode. The folks left in those conferences would be spread over hell and gone, still with football predominate.
So, they said let's get in front of the curve, and at least start the ball rolling, before we really have no leverage when the BE new members arrive.
So, off they go yesterday to start, and we are waiting to see what happens. If they only go to 9, and add X and Butler, a few things happen:
1 - It's not "Catholic" only
2 - They've got enough for a balanced schedule next year (I not even thought about 9 in the beginning)
3 - Maybe they just pause there for a while, to see what happens if the ACC implodes. It's not like they couldn't add some more A10 members in the spring
4 - What if they wait until schools like Wake and Duke might become available? Schools who could put their BB and other sports in the new league, and play football somewhere else?
5 - Absent that wild ass theory, if they go to 12 I'm still rooting for Creighton, St. Louis and Richmond for maximum market coverage and good divisional splits
This thread is at almost 100 pages.
Realignment theory #4,259:
Maybe the presidents of the BE 7 looked around and decided that within the next few months, the BE would finally implode (UConn gone), and the next step was the ACC to implode. The folks left in those conferences would be spread over hell and gone, still with football predominate.
So, they said let's get in front of the curve, and at least start the ball rolling, before we really have no leverage when the BE new members arrive.
So, off they go yesterday to start, and we are waiting to see what happens. If they only go to 9, and add X and Butler, a few things happen:
1 - It's not "Catholic" only
2 - They've got enough for a balanced schedule next year (I not even thought about 9 in the beginning)
3 - Maybe they just pause there for a while, to see what happens if the ACC implodes. It's not like they couldn't add some more A10 members in the spring
4 - What if they wait until schools like Wake and Duke might become available? Schools who could put their BB and other sports in the new league, and play football somewhere else?
5 - Absent that wild ass theory, if they go to 12 I'm still rooting for Creighton, St. Louis and Richmond for maximum market coverage and good divisional splits
This thread is at almost 100 pages.
Nailed it. I think this is the smart option. What this move did is finally put them in the position of making decisions. I say wait it out and have great teams come begging you to let them it.
5 years ago Xavier to the Big East seemed like a pipe dream. Things change and you need to be in a position of power when they do.
Things are not done changing. Add X and 1 other for now and WAIT IT OUT! You may be surprised who is willing to jpoin this league.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-14/cincinnati-uconn-acc-big-east-leaving-conference-realignment-connecticut
They could go this new conference the No Trust Conference.
Could the ACC look like this by 2020:
Syracuse
Pitt
Miami (FL)
UCONN
Louisville
Wake Forest
UC
Temple
Memphis
ECU
South Florida
UCF or UNCC
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-14-2012, 06:35 PM
MHver3 @MHver3
Big East auto-bid for 2013 is gonna be redacted.
MHver3 @MHver3
Hearing that UVA to BiG is reaching critical mass and at this point it would take something huge to derail it
MHver3 @MHver3
$43 million a year is too much to ignore vs $25 million
MHver3 @MHver3
thats nearly $200 million in a decade. What university public or private turns that down?
MHver3 @MHver3
Big East auto-bid for 2013 is gonna be redacted.
MHver3 @MHver3
Hearing that UVA to BiG is reaching critical mass and at this point it would take something huge to derail it
MHver3 @MHver3
$43 million a year is too much to ignore vs $25 million
MHver3 @MHver3
thats nearly $200 million in a decade. What university public or private turns that down?
That guy has been so wrong throughout Realignment you're better off believing the opposite. He created alternate usernames on wvu sites to "verify" his info at one point.
Masterofreality
12-16-2012, 12:15 PM
I am sitting here absolutely guffawing at SucKS prospects.
Yesterday, Twit Babcock was quoted as saying: "It is the intent of the University of Cincinnati to compete at the highest level athletically".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........F-ing HA!
Memo to Twit. Unless all of a sudden you get a magical invite to the SEC in football because you have compromising pictures of Mike Slime Slive or you get an invite to the B1G for basketball because you are holding all of Jim Delany's money hostage in a secret Swiss bank account, you are destined to be hob-nob-gobbling with East Carolina, Tulane and Central Florida. No one wants you, your quaint little playground, your miniscule athletic budget that loses money on an annual basis, and your fly-by-night fans.
I hope you and your jaundiced leprechaun basketball coach enjoy those road trips to no-trees Idaho.
paulxu
12-16-2012, 12:29 PM
MOR, I'm a little worried about your health. I detect just the slightest hint of disapproval about the other school in Cincinnati.
Might I suggest a shot of Makers, drawing a deep breath...and then let us know how you really feel about them.
GoMuskies
12-18-2012, 01:09 PM
Dustin Dow weighs in on how this will all shake out:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/16/spt_NewLeaguestory16.html
DC Muskie
12-18-2012, 01:16 PM
Dustin Dow weighs in on how this will all shake out:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/16/spt_NewLeaguestory16.html
Nice find! reps
BBC 08
12-18-2012, 01:21 PM
Dustin Dow weighs in on how this will all shake out:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/16/spt_NewLeaguestory16.html
Are you sure that is a Dow article? I don't see any references to clothes.
DC Muskie
12-18-2012, 01:47 PM
Are you sure that is a Dow article? I don't see any references to clothes.
Or more importantly, his mittens.
BBC 08
12-18-2012, 01:50 PM
Or more importantly, his mittens.
That's what it was. Thank you.
GoMuskies
12-18-2012, 01:54 PM
I would have expected the breakdown of winners and losers to include which beat writers were likely to have the longest layovers and weather delays based on conference travel. VERY disappointing.
Sadly, Dow has moved on to writing garbage none of us are smart enough to understand: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2034591
X-man
12-18-2012, 01:55 PM
Dustin Dow weighs in on how this will all shake out:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/16/spt_NewLeaguestory16.html
Dow ought to get out more. Bruno hasn't been the A10 Commissioner for a couple of years now.
DC Muskie
12-18-2012, 02:06 PM
Dow ought to get out more. Bruno hasn't been the A10 Commissioner for a couple of years now.
I just got the joke. My bad.
Muskie
12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Proof that nothing ever disappears on the internet. The article is from 2003.
X-man
12-18-2012, 04:12 PM
Dow ought to get out more. Bruno hasn't been the A10 Commissioner for a couple of years now.
As Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say..."Never mind".
If the added schools are supposedly being announced tomorrow, it would stand to reason, the decisions are being made today. Therefore I would imagine someone will leak the details this evening or early tomorrow.
outsideobserver11
12-19-2012, 10:27 AM
MHver3 @MHver3
Cincy and Uconn both assured an ACC invite and are fully expecting to be in the ACC by 2014
coasterville95
12-19-2012, 10:51 AM
Wouldn't that wrap everything up in a nice little package titled "Just about everybody gets what they want"?
The Big East 7 split off, and add some schools and build a basketball superconferece.
UC and UConn to the ACC pretty much wipes out the rest of the old Big East (Sorry South Florida! Maybe we can find a nice conference for you somewhere, maybe C-USA is looking for some teams)
That means there is nobody left in the Big East so the Basketball schools can keep MSG and the "Big East" name.
Then all those C-USA, and other conference schools can just return to their current conferences, no harm, no foul, right guys? Including Temple back to the A10 or to MAC?
(Of course no soner does this dust settle than the BIG, BXII, SEC, and PACXII start poaching the ACC, and we'll see who makes that cut)
boozehound
12-19-2012, 10:51 AM
MHver3 @MHver3
Cincy and Uconn both assured an ACC invite and are fully expecting to be in the ACC by 2014
Not too surprised.
Does that mean Cronin will recant his little 'outburst' last week?
MHver3 @MHver3
Cincy and Uconn both assured an ACC invite and are fully expecting to be in the ACC by 2014
I don't see this happening without two or more teams leaving the ACC first. What does the ACC gain by adding either unless they have holes to fill.
That guy is wrong 99.9% of the time. He is a troll who knows nothing and just makes shit up to stir the pot.
I've posted this here before, but that dude made up multiple screen names to verify his own information on WVU message boards. I have followed the realignment stuff very closely and have seen this guy post hundreds of rumors and I honestly can't recall a single instance where he was correct.
xudash
12-19-2012, 06:32 PM
http://ajerseyguy.com/
A pot of money. Interesting.
http://ajerseyguy.com/
A pot of money. Interesting.
Maybe that means the new league can hire competent officials instead of some of the clowns the A10 uses.
Also free beer at conference tournament.
xsteve1
12-20-2012, 09:46 AM
Maybe that means the new league can hire competent officials instead of some of the clowns the A10 uses.
Also free beer at conference tournament.
That's another positive about the move. We are going to have much better officials. Maybe Steratore who I think is excellent will start doing our games again.
xudash
12-20-2012, 03:35 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/big-east-commissioner-mike-aresco-we-feel-we-have-a-very-good-league/2012/12/19/2fb80652-4a1e-11e2-820e-17eefac2f939_story.html?wprss=rss_colleges
Quick update. Not much new to tell, but thought I would share it.
Masterofreality
12-20-2012, 03:43 PM
"We'll have a very viable league". Well, viable means it's alive, and not much else.
Let's just call Aresco "Manhattan Mike" aka "Baghdad Bob".
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-21-2012, 11:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8771286/boise-state-broncos-discussing-staying-mountain-west-snubbing-big-east
The Mountain West and Boise State are having ongoing dialogue about the Broncos staying in the conference instead of leaving for the Big East in fall 2013, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com on Friday night.
Big East blog
Big East ESPN.com's Andrea Adelson writes about all things Big East in the conference blog.
• Blog network:
College Football Nation
The source said the focus of the Mountain West is to lure the Broncos back in light of the Big East shakeup that has seen Louisville and Rutgers commit to leave the league for the ACC and the Big Ten, respectively, in 2014, and then the potential devaluing of the television deal with seven Catholic-based non-FBS schools announcing a split as late as June 30, 2015.
Boise State could be forced to make a quick choice between the two conferences because the Mountain West and CBS have agreed to restructure their television deal, CBSSports.com reported Friday, citing anonymous sources.
A new deal could mean millions more for Mountain West schools through the 2015-2016 school year and make the Mountain West the dominant non-BCS conference in the country.
Sources at Cincinnati and UConn are under the impression, even if it's not known to be true yet, that the Big Ten will raid the ACC for two more schools -- North Carolina and Georgia Tech.
JimmyTwoTimes37
12-24-2012, 10:32 AM
Tuxedo Yoda @TuxedoYoda
Per my Austin source, the Big 12 & BYU talks are real and are more serious than most suspect.
xudash
12-28-2012, 11:14 AM
Round and round the wheel spins.
Where will it stop? More to the point, which schools, other than Xavier and Butler, will it stop on?
From the Georgetown board:
Today at 10:32am, hoyabinx wrote:
Today at 9:45am, nathanhm wrote:
So an insider on one of the Marquette boards is saying Gonzaga is def in the new league for at least basketball, still making a decision on the other programs. Don't know how accurate this guy but would LOVE for him to be right.
Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga -- great start.
Any chance you could link to that discussion and/or quote what he said?
Board is MUScoop - Gonzaga thread. I haven't seen anything on the Gonzaga board that conveys the same message:
Highlighted comments by the guy:
It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.
Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.
No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.
What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.
All this is high theatre.
coasterville95
12-28-2012, 11:42 AM
I still would like Creighton in, maybe I am the only one that fondly remembers that series. Yes, it took us what 4 tries to actually win a game after losing three games by what 1 or 2 points each. Oh, and the way the games from Omaha always seemed to have TV technical difficulties preventing us from watching, and the stronger than usual accusations of corrupt officiating in Omaha. But I thought fans of both schools liked that series.
Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Gonzaga and St. Louis - call it a day. You take those plus the Catholic 7 and you have yourselves a dream basketball schedule every season. PlayPlay 6 teams once and 5 teams twice, it's not quite the double round robin the coaches want, but them are some pretty good odds of having a high quality home schedule every year, and that's BEFORE Mike Bobinski and company work their magic with the OOC games. All the ESPN media darlings in one conference, when they show the TV executives their "inventory" that would have to start them drooling, and the mega big checks, like the 3 million a school per year someone claimed on the other thread.
BMoreX
12-28-2012, 11:43 AM
I would love to get Gonzaga for just basketball. But I think this poster saying they'd just leave the other sports in the WCC is not thinking fully. Why would that conference want to keep the non revenue Gonzaga sports? It probably doesn't.
But if they are, I think it's a no brainer to add the Zags for basketball only.
paulxu
12-28-2012, 11:55 AM
I know this is nutso thinking, and I understand the attraction of the Zags..but I can't for the life of me imagine any coach liking the idea that every away in-conference game will be played 2 or 3 time zones away. Just seems crazy
drudy23
12-28-2012, 12:06 PM
I know this is nutso thinking, and I understand the attraction of the Zags..but I can't for the life of me imagine any coach liking the idea that every away in-conference game will be played 2 or 3 time zones away. Just seems crazy
Agreed....may be great for us, but think of the travel for Gonzaga. Every away conference game is a 4-5 hour plane ride. That would get old real quick.
STL_XUfan
12-28-2012, 12:13 PM
It would suck for their fans. Imagine every away game being a 4pm (or 6 if they are lucky) local start.
coasterville95
12-28-2012, 12:19 PM
You know they would insist all their road games be like 9pm eastern tips. If not 10 pm.
MHettel
12-28-2012, 12:28 PM
I still would like Creighton in, maybe I am the only one that fondly remembers that series. Yes, it took us what 4 tries to actually win a game after losing three games by what 1 or 2 points each. Oh, and the way the games from Omaha always seemed to have TV technical difficulties preventing us from watching, and the stronger than usual accusations of corrupt officiating in Omaha. But I thought fans of both schools liked that series.
Xavier, Butler, Creighton, Gonzaga and St. Louis - call it a day. You take those plus the Catholic 7 and you have yourselves a dream basketball schedule every season. PlayPlay 6 teams once and 5 teams twice, it's not quite the double round robin the coaches want, but them are some pretty good odds of having a high quality home schedule every year, and that's BEFORE Mike Bobinski and company work their magic with the OOC games. All the ESPN media darlings in one conference, when they show the TV executives their "inventory" that would have to start them drooling, and the mega big checks, like the 3 million a school per year someone claimed on the other thread.
A few things to consider.
Xavier Perspective- The 12 team arrangement and the scheduling format you outlined implies divisions will be involved. Teams will be split into 2 6 team divisions. Does XU try to insist on being in the East, with the 5 eastern based Schools? They would be the 6th furthest team east... And, if so then ghow does Marquette and DePaul respond to that? These teams now get put in the West where they play Creighton, SLU, and of course get to travel to Gonzaga... Or, if XU doesnt manage to get into the East, then they are looking at very limited trips east every year, which I believe would not be desireable.
Gonzaga perspective- No matter how many conference games there would be, or which division they would end up in, you can assume that Gonzaga would have to travel at least half a continent away every time they have a game. Have you been to Spokane? You basically have to fly into Seattle first then take a little hop to Spokane. We're talking 7 to 8 hours total travel time between Gonzaga and their closest opponent. Imagine doing that 8 times between mid January and early March. Then tack on the Conference tournament and of course the post season. Simply put, I think thats too much travel....
I said before that the best way to include Gonzaga is to "build your way out West." I think maybe the conference needs to grow to 16 and consider adding St. Mary's and Seattle U. SMU is a quality program, and Seattle U has alot of money and a reasonable number of local alumni and could invest in the program pretty easily, especially if they stumble into a rich revenue stream from TV.
I simply cant see how Gonzaga works without a few more Western Schools to have it make sense....
More Cowbell
12-28-2012, 01:09 PM
I have no desire to add any other west coast teams. SMU plays in a gym the same size as Fordham and still doesnt sell out. They do not have a national following and are 3-7 in the tournament. I would love for Gonzaga to join, but I can't think of any west coast teams that actually bring something to the tournament. When Matthew Dellavedova leaves they are back to being LaSalle.
Also, I imagine Gonzaga flies charter out of Spokane.
Muskied
12-28-2012, 01:24 PM
They should just build a Gonzaga West Chester satellite campus like everyon else. Play half their home games at the Cincinnati Gardens....is this too simple of an idea?
drudy23
12-28-2012, 01:29 PM
When Matthew Dellavedova leaves they are back to being LaSalle.
.
???
St Mary's? C'mon...they get a little more respect than that.
They're not world beaters...but they're not LaSalle either. They've been decent the last 5-10 years.
More Cowbell
12-28-2012, 01:42 PM
???
St Mary's? C'mon...they get a little more respect than that.
They're not world beaters...but they're not LaSalle either. They've been decent the last 5-10 years.
Maybe LaSalle is a bit harsh, but the school is not set up for long term basketball success. The success they have enjoyed is largely due to their ability to take Australia's best players. That will not last forever.
MHettel
12-28-2012, 02:17 PM
The idea is not to evaluate just St. Mary's but to ask aloud if adding Gonzaga by itself is practical. A scenario with Gonzaga makes Creighton seem more logical. Gonzaga gives presence on both coasts, but there is no continuity. People lauged at Denver. You can laugh at Seattle U and Porland as well. But these are big cities where a suddenly resourcefull team (TV dollars) can buy their way to reasonable competitiveness pretty quickly. Other schools like pepperdine offer similar benefits and basically "fill in" the map a bit better.
I dont know what will happen, but I cant see Gonzaga as part of a 12 team league, but if I'm the league i definately want Gonzaga. I love the idea of back to back televised games on a major network one week-night each week. One east coast game, one west coast. Heck you could fit three games into 6 hours of programing if you span the 4 time zones....
LA Muskie
12-28-2012, 02:49 PM
I think we'll see Gonzaga in for basketball only. I think the conference will allow charters for flights in excess of xxx miles. That would make up for many, but not all, of the travel issues.
And I think all of this will be good for the conference. They would be a huge get. Add XU, Butler, Gonzaga, Creighton, and make a push for ND. If you can't get ND, add SLU and call it a day.
The league could also accomodate Gonzaga as much as possible by scheduling them at least 2 road games back to back so instead of 8 trips east you do 4 trips east and play Thursday Night and Saturday.
Example: @ Providence then @ St. Johns followed by 2 home games. If there is only 1 school that needs a special scheduling accomodation it is not that hard to accomodate that need.
Thats another thing I hope the new league does, Conference games on Thursday & Saturday or Saturday and Monday. I want the conference season to replicate the NCAA tournament format i.e. play a game, have a day off, play a second game. It will prepare the teams better for the tournament which is what matters most.
BMoreX
12-28-2012, 05:13 PM
Why does everyone think you need 2 divisions when you have 12 teams? Maybe I'm just overthinking here, but when I hear someone mention divisions, that's 2 divisions and the winner of each is the #1 and #2 seed in the tournament. Frankly, no major conference works like that in basketball because there is no reason to. Now obviously, technically there are "divisions" since you'd play 5 teams twice and 6 teams once, which is normal. But true divisions is just not needed.
St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall
DePaul, Marquette, Creighton, Gonzaga, Butler
If it is the above scenario (or substitute Dayton/SLU for Gonzaga, or sub them both in and take the Zags oyt), I want Xavier playing home and homes against the eastern schools every year.
GoMuskies
12-30-2012, 04:14 PM
I think the conference will allow charters for flights in excess of xxx miles.
I'm not sure why the new conference would have any restrictions on charters. The current Big East does not have any such restrictions, so I don't see why the "new" Big East would. This is major college basketball. If you think your opponents are getting an edge by flying charter, pony up for it yourself.
xudash
12-30-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm not sure why the new conference would have any restrictions on charters. The current Big East does not have any such restrictions, so I don't see why the "new" Big East would. This is major college basketball. If you think your opponents are getting an edge by flying charter, pony up for it yourself.
This.
It's a program's decision to make expense-wise. Obviously, programs who can afford it and who do utilize charters make that a selling point in their pitches to recruits.
LA Muskie
12-30-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm not sure why the new conference would have any restrictions on charters. The current Big East does not have any such restrictions, so I don't see why the "new" Big East would. This is major college basketball. If you think your opponents are getting an edge by flying charter, pony up for it yourself.
I didn't realize the current BE had no restrictions. If that's the case it's even easier to accommodate Gonzaga for basketball -- it would just be a scheduling matter (as someone else suggested they could book them on back-to-back road games).
BMoreX
12-31-2012, 02:41 PM
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Boise State remaining in MWC & will not join Big East in 2013, sources told @espn
HUGE news! (Not necessarily for X, but in general conference realignment talk.)
X-band '01
12-31-2012, 02:48 PM
Probably means San Diego State will also look to remain in the Mountain West as well.
xudash
12-31-2012, 03:03 PM
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Boise State remaining in MWC & will not join Big East in 2013, sources told @espn
HUGE news! (Not necessarily for X, but in general conference realignment talk.)
I'm totally not shocked with this report.
BMoreX
12-31-2012, 04:15 PM
Some nuggets from this article: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8796807/boise-state-broncos-staying-mountain-west-conference-sources-say
A source with direct knowledge said there is a tentative in person meeting of the seven presidents of the departing Catholic Big East schools for Friday. Discussing exit fees and when to form the new conference are high on the agenda, as well as designating a point person.
A Mountain West conference source with knowledge of the situation said San Diego State wants back in the Mountain West, but the league is holding up the process as it decides whether there is a better fit than the Aztecs and if there is a school that can deliver more value.
paulxu
12-31-2012, 04:26 PM
I wonder if we'll lose Bobinski to the new conference as its commissioner.
xudash
12-31-2012, 04:43 PM
I wonder if we'll lose Bobinski to the new conference as its commissioner.
If the TV money ends up in the $3mm per school range, then it would be a good gig for him.
If he's ready for a change of scenery, we'll know soon enough.
If he perceives he can do more with Xavier's athletic programs as a result of this conference move, perhaps he'll extend his stay.
Either way, he'll navigate us into this thing the right way, and he knows talent when he sees it: expect a high-energy youthful, talented replacement. Onward we'll go from there.
SlimKibbles
12-31-2012, 06:01 PM
Some nuggets from this article: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8796807/boise-state-broncos-staying-mountain-west-conference-sources-say
Who else is out there besides SDSU that could deliver value for the MWC? The MWC presidents just making the Aztecs sweat a little?
XU '11
12-31-2012, 06:41 PM
Who else is out there besides SDSU that could deliver value for the MWC? The MWC presidents just making the Aztecs sweat a little?
The article mentions Houston, SMU, UTEP and Tulsa.
LA Muskie
12-31-2012, 06:51 PM
I wonder if we'll lose Bobinski to the new conference as its commissioner.
Bobinski is very well regarded, but I'd be shocked if the commish doesn't come from the Catholic 7 or isn't at least closely aligned with them and/or their mission (ie Gavitt). This move is about controlling their own destiny...I just don't see their first big hire being an outsider.
xudash
12-31-2012, 07:37 PM
Bobinski is very well regarded, but I'd be shocked if the commish doesn't come from the Catholic 7 or isn't at least closely aligned with them and/or their mission (ie Gavitt). This move is about controlling their own destiny...I just don't see their first big hire being an outsider.
Actually, that's a great point. In fact, recall that Tagliabue mentioned that he would be willing to come back and help. I could see him stepping into it on an interim basis to put it together, stabilize it and find the right long-term person for the job. That or find the person now and consult.
Masterofreality
01-01-2013, 08:15 AM
Commissioner...two words...
Dan Gavitt.
xubrew
01-01-2013, 01:41 PM
Who else is out there besides SDSU that could deliver value for the MWC? The MWC presidents just making the Aztecs sweat a little?
It's possible that it might be Gonzaga. Hawaii is an affiliate member for football. They may consider adding Gonzaga as Hawai'i's mirror.
....and getting back to an earlier point, there are 31 conferences and to the best of my knowledge none of them have any sort of restrictions when it comes to travel. You can rent your own fans and drive yourself, you can charter a bus, you can go greyhound, you can fly commercial, or you can charter a flight. For that matter, you could also hitch hike, I guess. It's up to you and how much you want to spend. Football teams, even in small conferences, will often charter flights.
xubrew
01-02-2013, 07:58 PM
On the second thought, it looks like it will be San Diego State after all. I'm not sure why Boise wanted that as a provision, but check out 5E. There is a lot of this realignment stuff that makes no sense to me, and Boise going to bat for San Diego State is among that.
In other news, they will also be allowed to wear blue uniforms at home again.
http://media.idahostatesman.com/smedia/2013/01/02/11/28/S3EZp.So.36.pdf
JimmyTwoTimes37
01-04-2013, 11:15 AM
For what its worth, Mick Cronin said on his radio show last night that the Big10 and SEC will each take 2 of the current ACC teams, opening 4 spots in the ACC.
There's a quiet lull in the tweets regarding alignment...That usually means something is in the works
MHettel
01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
For what its worth, Mick Cronin said on his radio show last night that the Big10 and SEC will each take 2 of the current ACC teams, opening 4 spots in the ACC.
There's a quiet lull in the tweets regarding alignment...That usually means something is in the works
I beleive what Cronin is saying. FSU, UNC, Miami, Clemson, Vtech, Gtech and NCState are all traditional "decent" football schools at worst and have similarities to the memberships of the SEC and B10. I personally think FSU and Miami are the 2 gems in this group due to the possibly entry of the B10---or Big 12--- into Florida. I expect 6 of these 7 teams to eventually (months) get gobbled up by the SEC B10 and B12.
then the remnants like UC, Temple, BC, Duke, Wake, Louisville, and UConn will just need one more football school to join so they can have a second tier 8 team league with great basketball. I think Pitt and Syracuse are also kind of hangin out there in the wind in this scenario, so they could just grab those 2 and have a 9 team conference. memphis could be an option to make it 10.
xudash
01-04-2013, 01:13 PM
I beleive what Cronin is saying. FSU, UNC, Miami, Clemson, Vtech, Gtech and NCState are all traditional "decent" football schools at worst and have similarities to the memberships of the SEC and B10. I personally think FSU and Miami are the 2 gems in this group due to the possibly entry of the B10---or Big 12--- into Florida. I expect 6 of these 7 teams to eventually (months) get gobbled up by the SEC B10 and B12.
then the remnants like UC, Temple, BC, Duke, Wake, Louisville, and UConn will just need one more football school to join so they can have a second tier 8 team league with great basketball. I think Pitt and Syracuse are also kind of hangin out there in the wind in this scenario, so they could just grab those 2 and have a 9 team conference. memphis could be an option to make it 10.
The ACC will become the backfill entity. UC, Temple, etc. won't be grabbing Pitt and Syracuse. The ACC will backfill with UC, Temple and UCONN, and will grab whatever else is available and logical (Memphis?) to match the losses. Everyone that's still a little bit of anyone that otherwise isn't going to make the Big4 cut will still benefit from the ACC brand.
I agree with you about Miami with respect to its Florida location, but Miami has serious issues right now. Their fan support is horrendous. I also believe it still remains to be seen how badly Miami will get hurt with sanctions.
I believe Duke stands a much better chance for inclusion in the Big4 than does Miami.
MHettel
01-04-2013, 01:29 PM
The ACC will become the backfill entity. UC, Temple, etc. won't be grabbing Pitt and Syracuse. The ACC will backfill with UC, Temple and UCONN, and will grab whatever else is available and logical (Memphis?) to match the losses. Everyone that's still a little bit of anyone that otherwise isn't going to make the Big4 cut will still benefit from the ACC brand.
I agree with you about Miami with respect to its Florida location, but Miami has serious issues right now. There fan support is horrendous. I also believe it still remains to be seen how badly Miami will get hurt with sanctions.
I believe Duke stands a much better chance for inclusion in the Big4 than does Miami.
Same idea basically. Its still essentially going to be that group of teams left behind, save maybe Miami for Duke like you suggest. It will be the ACC, but it wont be the ACC that we've grown to know.
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