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Juice
11-30-2012, 07:13 PM
Why not? They played Wake and BC this year. They played Pitt, who is worse than Syracuse. They played BYU who is, if not worse, much lower rated than Louisville. And they played Purdue and Navy, both likely worse than Duke. And here they are at BCS #1.

Looking at Sagarin's SOS, ND's schedule strength is 30. Alabama is 39, Oregon is 31, Florida is 13, KSU is 24, and Georgia is 42.

Alabama's and Georgia's SOS will improve with the SEC championship game but ND is right there. The SEC is still the best conference but it was not what it usually is top to bottom. The bottom of the conference was pretty damn weak.

DC Muskie
11-30-2012, 08:18 PM
Plenty of seats available for the PAC 12 championship game.

Muskie
11-30-2012, 08:36 PM
Plenty of seats available for the PAC 12 championship game.

Probably because they literally played the same game one week ago. Talk about poor luck scheduling.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

GoMuskies
11-30-2012, 08:40 PM
Gotta love these championship games. The Pac 12 at least looked at how embarrassing the ACC Championship game always looks and decided to play it at one of the participating schools. Who would have guessed that Stanford fans weren't the least bit interested in having their team make the Rose Bowl?

DC Muskie
11-30-2012, 09:06 PM
Plus kickoff was around 5 pm local time.

Sign me up!

waggy
11-30-2012, 09:23 PM
My feeling is that the school the B1G wants next is Virginia. Who wouldn't? Impressive institution.

paulxu
11-30-2012, 09:34 PM
Gotta love these championship games. The Pac 12 at least looked at how embarrassing the ACC Championship game always looks and decided to play it at one of the participating schools. Who would have guessed that Stanford fans weren't the least bit interested in having their team make the Rose Bowl?

Just think how much more interesting the dynamic would be if the winner of the Pac12 got to go on to a 2 game playoff for the NC.

xudash
11-30-2012, 10:25 PM
Plenty of seats available for the PAC 12 championship game.

Rain causes a bad hair day. Californians do not like bad hair days.

GoMuskies
11-30-2012, 10:29 PM
MAC title game is awesome.

XUglow
12-01-2012, 06:06 AM
Plus kickoff was around 5 pm local time.

Sign me up!

Bay area traffic. 5pm kick off. Rain to boot. I lived 37 miles from my Palo Alto office, and the Friday commute could take 4 hours in good weather on Friday. What were they thinking?

xutag77
12-01-2012, 09:38 AM
That's weird. In my first ever visit to Atlanta, I witnessed a fist fight between a Georgia and Georgia Tech fan in the bathroom. Can't believe it wouldn't sell out at Georgia with the kind of year Georgia is having and the the average year GT is having.

CLEMSON 247 @Tim_Matty247: Sources are indicating that the #B1G has approved #GT as its 15th member. Stay tuned...

Then they stopped calling it a shoot out.:smile:

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-01-2012, 12:58 PM
My feeling is that the school the B1G wants next is Virginia. Who wouldn't? Impressive institution.

Interesting you bring that up.

Kevin Jones ‏@Mr_KevinJones
Source: Georiga Tech and UVA will announce decision to leave ACC by Monday. Will join Big 10

paulxu
12-01-2012, 02:04 PM
That should get UNC and VT moving to the SEC if it happens.

Which would get Clemson, Miami, FSU and anybody else still standing moving to the B12.

Juice
12-01-2012, 03:01 PM
That should get UNC and VT moving to the SEC if it happens.

Which would get Clemson, Miami, FSU and anybody else still standing moving to the B12.

NC State?

bigdiggins
12-01-2012, 08:21 PM
If Louisville would reverse course and go to the Big12 would they have to pay the ACC the $50M exit fee?

BMoreX
12-02-2012, 12:18 PM
http://www.villanova.com/genrel/112912aab.html

Interesting letter from the Villanova AD.

muskienick
12-02-2012, 01:24 PM
http://www.villanova.com/genrel/112912aab.html

Interesting letter from the Villanova AD.

Thank God for that letter to Villnova fans. Now I know almost as much as I did before I read it!

Nicastro must have graduated Summa Cum Laude in political science from Georgetown or Harvard to have penned all those words without giving the receivers of that message even a single iota of information. I guess the beat writers for college basketball will tell us what Villanova has planned for its athletic future after all the conference reshuffling dust has finally settled.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-02-2012, 01:30 PM
Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Georgia Tech-B1G talk picking up to the point GT's AD semi-denied. Also hearing SEC talk w/GT. Too much smoke to say they'll stay long-term.

TRC ‏@RubrChickens
ATL radio says GT in talks with the B1G. Hadn't heard that one yet. Screw the lifeboats, schools are gonna start swimming for it. #ACC

xudash
12-02-2012, 01:34 PM
Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Georgia Tech-B1G talk picking up to the point GT's AD semi-denied. Also hearing SEC talk w/GT. Too much smoke to say they'll stay long-term.

TRC ‏@RubrChickens
ATL radio says GT in talks with the B1G. Hadn't heard that one yet. Screw the lifeboats, schools are gonna start swimming for it. #ACC

Now that's one of the funniest lines I've read in all this.

paulxu
12-02-2012, 01:55 PM
Don't tell Go.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-02-2012, 01:57 PM
Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Not sure about #UVA, but I'm still hearing #UNC and #GT are in play for the Big 10. Biggest issue for UNC may be N.C. State handcuffing.

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Don't know exactly how far. Do believe they've applied. RT@cscottwright How far along is GT with the Big 10? Has GT applied for membership?

paulxu
12-02-2012, 02:08 PM
I can't image UNC being more interested in the Big10 than the SEC, unless they think their football program would have a better chance to compete for a conference championship. Money and geography would seem to favor the SEC.

xudash
12-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Not sure about #UVA, but I'm still hearing #UNC and #GT are in play for the Big 10. Biggest issue for UNC may be N.C. State handcuffing.

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
Don't know exactly how far. Do believe they've applied. RT@cscottwright How far along is GT with the Big 10? Has GT applied for membership?

Were UNC to accept an invitation from the B1G, that would be analogous to hammering the skull of the ACC; it would be over, as UNC is the historical epicenter of that conference. Tobacco Road moves up the road to the industrial Midwest.

In the abstract, I don't understand why Slive and Delaney haven't been more coordinated in effecting all this change. For that matter, pull Bowlsby into it, assuming it's been readily accepted that the Big XII will be one of the chosen 4. I'm leaving Larry Scott (PAC 12) out of this due to the geography of the schools at play. At any rate, the first two are the ultimate power players and are driving towards the same conclusion. It isn't as though they're at odds over how the final architecture of conferences and the playoff system will look.

Respecting the fact that anti-trust related issues may be involved here, the other reason they should be more coordinated is that the selection of certain schools for their respective conferences should be fairly obvious (i.e. the B1G would take a Maryland, whereas the SEC would never consider it). They simply aren't going to find themselves fighting, or fussing much over the same schools.

So, let it be clear to NC State that it will have a safe landing in the SEC before the application from the B1G ever hits the Chancellor's desk in Chapel Hill.

Yeah, that it'll happen, because they're all such good friends. Please note that I did write "in the abstract."

xudash
12-02-2012, 02:38 PM
I can't image UNC being more interested in the Big10 than the SEC, unless they think their football program would have a better chance to compete for a conference championship. Money and geography would seem to favor the SEC.

Paul, it would appear your point is obvious in 2012, when 5 major conferences were still technically in play, but, once the process begins to consolidate into 4 major conferences, some of the old feelings about the Civil War will be set aside and new geographical designations will arise. As far as the B1G is concerned, it becomes a midwestern/mid-atlantic/northern south league. I suspect that Delaney wanted - wants - to achieve a contiguous states format, but he isn't going to let that be a more important criterion than getting the right school(s).

xudash
12-02-2012, 06:12 PM
For what it's worth: don't count out the idea that the PAC12 has firmly boxed out SDSU and Boise from consideration:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/12/01/pac-12-expansion-boise-state-san-diego-state/?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-02-2012, 06:21 PM
Dave Tucker ‏@TestudoDave
So the source that first mentioned #Maryland to the B1G is now claiming Georgia Tech & UNC in talks to bolt. Take that FWIW...

xudash
12-02-2012, 06:44 PM
From the St. John's Board:

Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away
Posted on November 28, 2012 by Jerry Carino
Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.

Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.

Here are highlights from the conversation:

“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”

Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?

“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”

“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”

Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?

“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”

“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy shit, what just happened here?’”

Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?

“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”

Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?

“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”

Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.

“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”

Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion?

“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’

“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”

“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”

“That becomes a win-win.

xudash
12-02-2012, 06:49 PM
As shared on the A10 board, we're basically waiting to see how Curt Flood makes out:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2012-08/firstand10/story/college-football-realignment-maryland-acc-50-million-buyout-sec-big-ten-pac-12

JTG
12-02-2012, 08:28 PM
From the St. John's Board:

Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away
Posted on November 28, 2012 by Jerry Carino
Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.

Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.

Here are highlights from the conversation:

“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”

Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?

“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”

“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”

Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?

“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”

“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy shit, what just happened here?’”

Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?

“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”

Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?

“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”

Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.

“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”

Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion?

“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’

“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”

“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”

“That becomes a win-win.

The idea that the 7 Catholic bball schools in the Big East are not on the same page is scary for X. We have been wnting to be in a league with those guys forever. Those guys need to band together and disolve, and grab X Butler and a couple more schools, and lock up MSG. How stupid are SJU and Gtown that they are dragging their feet while the Big East keeps adding one crappy school after another to prop up the football side. I pray that Bobo is putting on a full court press with the BE bball schools to break off , and become the BE 10 or 12 sans football.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-02-2012, 08:41 PM
As shared on the A10 board, we're basically waiting to see how Curt Flood makes out:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2012-08/firstand10/story/college-football-realignment-maryland-acc-50-million-buyout-sec-big-ten-pac-12

Great find Dash.

FOX Sports OhioVerified ‏@FOXSportsOH 1 Dec
Unconfirmed, obviously - A CBS outlet in Washington, DC is reporting that Virginia and Georgia Tech will leave the ACC, join Big Ten.
https://twitter.com/FOXSportsOH/status/274941426322796545

Another random(probably dead wrong) blogger:
http://www.chatsports.com/michigan-wolverines/a/Georgia-Tech-to-Big-Ten-next-week-will-spark-4-Super-Conferences-10-2-3291#


The Big Ten will add Georgia Tech, as early as Monday, and Notre Dame in the near future, to completely revamp the landscape of college athletics and completely dissolve the ACC and Big East conferences. We have heard from a top source that Georgia Tech will accept an invitation to join the Big Ten, potentially on Monday.

When that takes place, mayhem will ensue, resulting in 4 football super-conferences starting in 2014. Here is how we see it going down, in order:

Monday Dec 3, 2012: Georgia Tech joins Big Ten

Looking to expand into SEC territory, the Big Ten adds Georgia Tech, securing the biggest market in the south-Atlanta. The Yellow Jackets will accept to join the conference in 2014.

Mid-December: Big 12 makes a fast move to grab top ACC teams

In an effort to ensure their survival, the Big 12 makes an offer to join the conference to ACC football powers Florida State and Clemson in December. Knowing that the ACC is falling apart and the $50M exit fee won’t be enforced, both schools accept.

January 2013: SEC ends the ACC as Duke, North Carolina join SEC

Knowing that football isn’t their strong suit, Duke and North Carolina agree to jointly accelerate talks with the SEC, talks that have been quietly going on for 3 years. Even with knowledge that the other North Carolina schools will be left without a conference, the 2 basketball powers jump ship, leaving the ACC scrambling for survival. The SEC is now full at 16 members.

February 2013: Pac 12 invades the Big 12

With the clear message that conferences will need 16 teams to stay viable, the Pac 12 does it’s best to secure schools in the Big 12 that aren’t happy with Texas getting the lions share of revenue in conference. The day after National Signing Day, the Pac 12 accepts 4 schools, Kansas, Kansas State, Texax Tech and TCU. This move still leaves the Big 12 sitting fairly strong, with Texas and Oklahoma as anchors. Now that 4 schools have left (and 8 total in a 2 year period) the remaining Big 12 teams meet to discuss the future of the conference. The consensus: Move now to add 8 teams to the current 8 that remain.

March 2013: After 3 weeks of negotiations and conversations, the Big 12 adds 8 teams in one day, completely dissolving the ACC

Hoping for as much national distribution as possible, potentially even becoming the true “national conference” the Big 12 adds 8 teams from the (now former) ACC and Big East conferences.

Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Miami (FL), Boston College, UConn, Virginia and Virginia Tech are now members of the Big 12, bringing the league to 16 teams.

Cincinnati, Wake Forest, NC State and South Florida are left out in the cold and, together, join Conference USA.

June 2013: Big Ten needs a 16th team, adds Notre Dame with incentives

Knowing that there is only one viable team to add, and after missing out on adding Virginia when they left to go to Big 12, the Big Ten adds BCS National Champion Notre Dame as a 16th member, but sells its soul to the devil to do so.

Notre Dame demands, and is given, special rights in football: An additional 20% of TV revenue on Big Ten Network over the remainder of the conference and Bowl Game preference over all other teams if they finish with a 9-3 record or better but don’t make the 4-team playoff system.

Results?

New PAC 12:
University of Arizona
Arizona State University
University of California, Berkeley
University of Colorado
University of Oregon
Oregon State University
Stanford University
UCLA
University of Southern California
University of Utah
University of Washington
Washington State University
University of Kansas
Kansas State University
Texas Christian University
Texas Tech University

New Big Ten:
University of Illinois
Indiana University
University of Iowa
University of Michigan
Michigan State University
University of Minnesota
University of Nebraska
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Pennsylvania State University
Purdue University
University of Wisconsin
University of Maryland
Rutgers University
Georgia Tech
Notre Dame

New Big 16 (formerly 12):
Baylor University
Iowa State University
University of Oklahoma
Oklahoma State University
University of Texas
West Virginia
Clemson University
Florida State University
University of South Florida
Syracuse University
University of Louisville
University of Pittsburgh
University of Miami
University of Connecticut
University of Virginia
Virginia Tech

New SEC:
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Kentucky
University of Missouri
University of South Carolina
University of Tennessee
Vanderbilt University
University of Alabama
University of Arkansas
Auburn University
LSU
Mississippi State University
University of Mississippi
Texas A&M University
Duke University
University of North Carolina

xudash
12-02-2012, 08:55 PM
Damn. That's all I got

We're here. Father Graham and Mike Bobinski know something we don't, but will enjoy finding out (well, some of us anyway). Good night LaSalle.

coasterville95
12-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Remember the big hitch is the rule about a new conference having to wait 5 years before they can even hope to get an NCAA Tourney auto bid.

So the only way we can practically do this is to have either Big East BB schools move to the A10, the desired A10 schools moving to the Big East, or members from both conferences moving to an existing third conference.

Option 3 means picking up other schools that may be undesirable, and having too many schools .

Option 1 leads to an unwieldy A10 unless we can "dump the chumps", Unless we get to like 20 teams in the A10, and put the 10 real basketball schools in one division , and the chaff in the other. And then stacking the conference tourney so the chaff essentially have no shot.

The best option - option 2 - relies on the Big 4 conferences raiding the ACC and the Big East of as many of their major football schools as they can, followed by the football schools from both conferences merging into a newly reformed ACC., and the basketball schools being left the Big East name and autobid. And then they pick us up.

For that we want the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, and SEC to go raiding the ACC and Big East, and we want it NOW.

GoMuskies
12-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Which league is UC supposed to end up in? Didn't see them listed?

GoMuskies
12-02-2012, 08:59 PM
Remember the big hitch is the rule about a new conference having to wait 5 years before they can even hope to get an NCAA Tourney auto bid.

I don't think that's right. As long as six of the members of the new conference have been together for the past five years, the auto-bid should kick in right away

coasterville95
12-02-2012, 09:09 PM
Maybe you were being sarcastic - but that post mentioned UC up top in the narrative as "Left out in the cold" - predicts a return to C-USA.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-02-2012, 09:10 PM
Assuming USF, UC, and UConn leave the BE, the Bball conference would consist of:

GTown(5-1)
Depaul(4-3)
Providence(6-2)
Seton Hall(5-2)
St Johns(6-2)
Marquette (5-2)
Villanova(4-3)
SMU(8-1)
Houston(5-2)
Memphis(4-2)
UCF(4-2)
Tulane(6-2)

Total Record: 62-24

The Bball side of things aren't as bad as they appear.

bigdiggins
12-02-2012, 09:18 PM
Why be worried about an auto bid? Not having an auto bid doesn't preclude a conference from having it's members get at-large bids. The conference we are hoping comes to fruition should have no problem sending 4-5 or teams in most years.

GoMuskies
12-02-2012, 09:20 PM
Why be worried about an auto bid? Not having an auto bid doesn't preclude a conference from having it's members get at-large bids. The conference we are hoping comes to fruition should have no problem sending 4-5 or teams in most years.

There are a lot of other sports, though. You would never get a baseball team into the tournament out of that league, for example.

JTG
12-02-2012, 09:24 PM
Damn. That's all I got

We're here. Father Graham and Mike Bobinski know something we don't, but will enjoy finding out (well, some of us anyway). Good night LaSalle.

Come on do you know something ? If so how about some more hints...... Could there be an earth shattering announcement this week ?

JTG
12-02-2012, 09:25 PM
There are a lot of other sports, though. You would never get a baseball team into the tournament out of that league, for example.

Seriously ? who cares about college baseball ?

GoMuskies
12-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Seriously ? who cares about college baseball ?

Well, hopefully the athletic directors. You're not going to join a conference without an auto bid. Just not gonna happen.

coasterville95
12-02-2012, 09:34 PM
Which is why the AD's get the big bucks - we think about Men's Basketball, Bobo is thinking about advancing the interest in ALL sports Xavier plays.

You don't think he has to have Soccer in mind, I mean since we have spent money on a coach that has taken the soccer team from worst to first in such a short time.

xudash
12-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Come on do you know something ? If so how about some more hints...... Could there be an earth shattering announcement this week ?

I don't know anything. I'm speculating, based upon me believing that such news would be enough to put this whole thing in motion. JJT37 Makes a good point above about his hybrid combination not being a bad basketball conference. We very well still could be stuck or we still could be asked to join something that looks like that.

The thing is, if you take Mempis out of it, I wouldn't Want to be a part of it if I were an existing Big East hoops school.

paulxu
12-02-2012, 10:02 PM
Let UNC and NC ST go to SEC.
We can take Duke in the A10 to replace Charlotte.

xudash
12-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Which is why the AD's get the big bucks - we think about Men's Basketball, Bobo is thinking about advancing the interest in ALL sports Xavier plays.

You don't think he has to have Soccer in mind, I mean since we have spent money on a coach that has taken the soccer team from worst to first in such a short time.

And Doug Steiner is opening his 7-digit golf facility at MCC in January. Did you ever envision the day Xavier would have a 7-digit practice and training facility dedicated to its golf teams?

LA Muskie
12-03-2012, 12:07 AM
Remember the big hitch is the rule about a new conference having to wait 5 years before they can even hope to get an NCAA Tourney auto bid.

So the only way we can practically do this is to have either Big East BB schools move to the A10, the desired A10 schools moving to the Big East, or members from both conferences moving to an existing third conference.

Option 3 means picking up other schools that may be undesirable, and having too many schools .

Option 1 leads to an unwieldy A10 unless we can "dump the chumps", Unless we get to like 20 teams in the A10, and put the 10 real basketball schools in one division , and the chaff in the other. And then stacking the conference tourney so the chaff essentially have no shot.

The best option - option 2 - relies on the Big 4 conferences raiding the ACC and the Big East of as many of their major football schools as they can, followed by the football schools from both conferences merging into a newly reformed ACC., and the basketball schools being left the Big East name and autobid. And then they pick us up.

For that we want the Pac 12, Big 12, Big 10, and SEC to go raiding the ACC and Big East, and we want it NOW.

You have forgotten Option 3: Get NCAA waiver. Given what football did to the big east basketball schools, I can't fathom such a request being rejected.

paulxu
12-03-2012, 08:12 AM
And Doug Steiner is opening his 7-digit golf facility at MCC in January. Did you ever envision the day Xavier would have a 7-digit practice and training facility dedicated to its golf teams?

That sounds like MOR made a generous donation to the golf team. Maybe he gave up bourbon for a year.

DC Muskie
12-03-2012, 09:22 AM
And Doug Steiner is opening his 7-digit golf facility at MCC in January. Did you ever envision the day Xavier would have a 7-digit practice and training facility dedicated to its golf teams?

What? Wow. Any more information about this? A quick search didn't produce any information.

bjf123
12-03-2012, 09:43 AM
And Doug Steiner is opening his 7-digit golf facility at MCC in January. Did you ever envision the day Xavier would have a 7-digit practice and training facility dedicated to its golf teams?
I played on the golf team under Ray Baldwin back in the 70s. We were lucky to get a sleeve of balls and lunch money when we drove to our matches that were almost always within 50 miles of campus. It's great to see how the program has grown.

coasterville95
12-03-2012, 09:49 AM
At first read, i thought he was sayign some other school invested a million into golf. Took a while for it to sink in that he was talking about us.

In the past decade (or so):
* Cintas Center (MBB, WBB, Volleyball)
* Cochran Field -> XU Soccer Complex - new turf once or twice, new scoreboard
* Hayden field - didn't I read where some upgrades took place to Hayden?
* Golf Facility mentioned above
* Soccer team "worst to first" improvement
* MBB - now regular Sweet 16 level team. (Yes, I know we allw ant that FF and beyond, but a decade ago if you would ahve told us there would be a day we would almost yawn "another sweet 16"...

Paul - if you could get the Big East 7 basketball schools, XU, Butler, and Duke to sign a new conference deal, you go man. 18 game true round robin conference slate, and get the BE to give us MSG as part of the deal. (We can give them Boardwalk Hall for the teams they would have left) That would be one nasty good BB conference.

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 10:01 AM
Duke is sinking a bunch of money into their football stadium right now. Unfortunately, I don't think they're ready to give up pretending they're trying to compete at a high level in college football.

DC Muskie
12-03-2012, 10:04 AM
Duke is sinking a bunch of money into their football stadium right now. Unfortunately, I don't think they're ready to give up pretending they're trying to compete at a high level in college football.

Aren't they ranked last in BCS conferences for money spent on football? I think I heard that last night.

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 10:07 AM
Probably close. Here is a story about the renovation, complete with a picture of their stadium as is. Texas high school football fans please stifle your giggles when viewing the picture.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/20425719/duke-announces-major-renovations-for-83-year-old-wallace-wade-stadium

paulxu
12-03-2012, 10:14 AM
Ah yes....but just remember this...the mighty Duke Blue Devils will be playing in the historic Belk Bowl this year on Dec. 27th in Charlotte against.....the power house Big East.....Bearkittens!

I should run a poll. The stadium holds 74,000. How many Duke and how many UC fans will show up.

outsideobserver11
12-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Great find Dash.

FOX Sports OhioVerified ‏@FOXSportsOH 1 Dec
Unconfirmed, obviously - A CBS outlet in Washington, DC is reporting that Virginia and Georgia Tech will leave the ACC, join Big Ten.
https://twitter.com/FOXSportsOH/status/274941426322796545

Another random(probably dead wrong) blogger:
http://www.chatsports.com/michigan-wolverines/a/Georgia-Tech-to-Big-Ten-next-week-will-spark-4-Super-Conferences-10-2-3291#

It cracks me up how so many people don't understand the GOR no matter how many times it is explained. The big 12 owns the TV rights of all of their current members no matter what conference they are in.

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 10:24 AM
It cracks me up how so many people don't understand the GOR no matter how many times it is explained. The big 12 owns the TV rights of all of their current members no matter what conference they are in.

Maybe. We've seen how well all these contracts have held up in the midst of realignment so far.

xudash
12-03-2012, 11:06 AM
What? Wow. Any more information about this? A quick search didn't produce any information.

I'm donating to this thing as well (as is MOR), so I can assure you that it's real.

In an effort to truly establish Xavier's golf program at the national level, Doug needed for Xavier to have its own golf facility. In short, that facilities "arms race" we're always talking about extends beyond football stadiums and basketball venues. Major programs have their own facilities.

So, after an extensive amount of work on Doug's part, he was able to put together the financing to the point of Mike green-lighting the project. The facility was constructed in partnership with Maketewah Country Club, which I believe is becoming Xavier's home course. Practice facilities, locker facilities, offices, etc.

They're holding a small opening reception in January and plan to do a larger opening reception in the spring.

It's real, and it's about 60 days away from being finished.

DC Muskie
12-03-2012, 11:08 AM
I'm donating to this thing as well (as is MOR), so I can assure you that it's real.

In an effort to truly establish Xavier's golf program at the national level, Doug needed for Xavier to have its own golf facility. In short, that facilities "arms race" we're always talking about extends beyond football stadiums and basketball venues. Major programs have their own facilities.

So, after an extensive amount of work on Doug's part, he was able to put together the financing to the point of Mike green-lighting the project. The facility was constructed in partnership with Maketewah Country Club, which I believe is becoming Xavier's home course. Practice facilities, locker facilities, offices, etc.

They're holding a small opening reception in January and plan to do a larger opening reception in the spring.

It's real, and it's about 60 days away from being finished.

That's awesome. Congrats!

bigdiggins
12-03-2012, 11:15 AM
Probably close. Here is a story about the renovation, complete with a picture of their stadium as is. Texas high school football fans please stifle your giggles when viewing the picture.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/20425719/duke-announces-major-renovations-for-83-year-old-wallace-wade-stadium

My wife and I took a day to walk around Duke's campus when X played @ Wake a few years back. The football stadium reminded me of a sh!ttier Nippert.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-03-2012, 12:41 PM
http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/


Big East Source: ‘If bleeding stopped here, the basketball schools would be happy’

While there is some support for a basketball-only league, those schools risk losing both the revenue associated with TV and their association with the Big East Championship at Madison Square Garden.

According to reports, under the current TV deal, Big East football schools get a yearly payout of $3.18 million, while the non-football schools get $1.56 million.

“If they do [form a Catholic league], they risk losing the conference label and then they risk losing the contact with Madison Square Garden for the tournament,” the source said. ”They don’t want to make a mistake by jumping out early and then not being able to get a pretty good TV deal, even though it’s going to be obviously much less on the basketball side.

“That’s why it’s a waiting game because they’re worried about if they did something collectively and tried to reform with others. It all goes around to the brand of the Big East and the Garden.”

The Garden and the Big East Conference recently extended their deal through the 2025-26 season.

“That’s the problem, right?” the source said. “The contract is with the Big East and so if they leave, they lose that tournament, they believe.”

By going to a Catholic basketball league, those schools would also be cutting out UConn, which, along with Cincinnati, openly campaigned to join the ACC but was spurned in favor of Louisville.

UConn remains a huge ticket draw for most Big East schools and is the most successful Big East program of the last decade or so — having won three NCAA championships under former coach Jim Calhoun since 1999.

Still, if UConn and/or Cincinnati leave anyway, an all-basketball league could be “inevitable” down the road.

“I think there is a sense of inevitablity to it,” the source said. “And there is a belief that they could form a really great basketball conference.”

The basketball schools could add several Atlantic 10 schools — perhaps some combination of Butler, Dayton, St. Joe’s and Xavier — but the source said such plans are not imminent.

“I believe at this time they have not made any outreach to any A-10 schools at all,” the source said. “They’re really just waiting to see what happens with this football situation.”

BMoreX
12-03-2012, 12:55 PM
http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/

I think they're content with the current makeup until UConn and/or UC leave. If the B1G plucks 2 from the ACC, the ACC will pluck two from the Big East, and those 2 schools are the favorites, IMO.

_LH
12-03-2012, 12:55 PM
http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/

I can understand those reasons but then why did Georgetown, St. John's, etc. vote to add in FULL membership to programs like Tulane when they could have said collectively "we'll let you add football only members in but not full time members". That would have prevented the football only members from having a vote in league matters and could have forced the football playing schools to leave the BE and form a new leauge versus the other way around.

_LH
12-03-2012, 12:56 PM
I think they're content with the current makeup until UConn and/or UC leave. If the B1G plucks 2 from the ACC, the ACC will pluck two from the Big East, and those 2 schools are the favorites, IMO.

Would the ACC really need to add two more if they lost two?

LA Muskie
12-03-2012, 01:32 PM
http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/
“I believe at this time they have not made any outreach to any A-10 schools at all,” the source said. “They’re really just waiting to see what happens with this football situation.”
It's all in the semantics (as we all know well). Whether there has been any "outreach" may be debatable. But I have it on perfect authority that conversations have happened.

Frankly I think the MSG contract is a joke. I'd rather be in Barclay's. As for the $$$, well there's not much that can be done about that. But if they are going to stick for the $$$, they should do it for only a full share of the TV revenue (football or no football). It's the only thing that might arguably make up for destroying their brand on the court.

xudash
12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
Would the ACC really need to add two more if they lost two?

Yes, considering the schools that will most likely be lost next. Notwithstanding the ill will (from UConn's former lawsuit) and BC getting vocal about blocking them, the ACC probably would see a great deal of value in gaining the UConn market, keeping in mind that all this is very relative at this point, in terms of defining value in a degrading situation.

Even UC might look appealing to them now, given that they just let in UL and that UC has an historical reputation for hoops. They would look past the YTG in making such a decision; they can tolerate a douchebag, knowing he won't be there forever.

It's 1:30 PM EST. It appears as though the tweets about G Tech were premature. Still, I can't see the realignment carrousel stopping from here. And so on we go.......

_LH
12-03-2012, 01:44 PM
Yes, considering the schools that will most likely be lost next. Notwithstanding the ill will (from UConn's former lawsuit) and BC getting vocal about blocking them, the ACC probably would see a great deal of value in gaining the UConn market, keeping in mind that all this is very relative at this point, in terms of defining value in a degrading situation.

Even UC might look appealing to them now, given that they just let in UL and that UC has an historical reputation for hoops. They would look past the YTG in making such a decision; they can tolerate a douchebag, knowing he won't be there forever.

It's 1:30 PM EST. It appears as though the tweets about G Tech were premature. Still, I can't see the realignment carrousel stopping from here. And so on we go.......

Really?

If two more leave the ACC, that would put them at 10 football playing schools. Obviously they would want to be 12 members to have a conference title game but replacing any of the currently 12 with UCONN and UC does not seem to make much sense. They maybe better off sitting tight at 10. They would have to know that if they were to lose two more that it would be the start of losing others as well. It might not be wise to add, just to add to stop the bleeding so to speak because they would then be stuck with some programs they would not want otherwise. It is easy to add teams but not easy to get rid of them. Would there be any rush to be at 12 teams, especially when the best options look to be UCONN and UC.

Wouldn't Temple make more sense than UC as well?

BandAid
12-03-2012, 02:01 PM
Wouldn't Temple make more sense than UC as well?

I would giggle like a schoolgirl if that happened

xudash
12-03-2012, 02:07 PM
Really?

If two more leave the ACC, that would put them at 10 football playing schools. Obviously they would want to be 12 members to have a conference title game but replacing any of the currently 12 with UCONN and UC does not seem to make much sense. They maybe better off sitting tight at 10. They would have to know that if they were to lose two more that it would be the start of losing others as well. It might not be wise to add, just to add to stop the bleeding so to speak because they would then be stuck with some programs they would not want otherwise. It is easy to add teams but not easy to get rid of them. Would there be any rush to be at 12 teams, especially when the best options look to be UCONN and UC.

Wouldn't Temple make more sense than UC as well?

Good point about Temple.

Otherwise, there is no clear best way to navigate this, because no one can be certain when the next B4 conference is going to make a move and then know what chain reaction such a move may set-off. So, let's say they sit tight at 10 - their conference championship is an abject failure anyway. But then the B1G actually comes around to announcing the "acquisition" of G Tech. Then it takes - pick one - UVA or UNC. That puts the SEC in motion, resulting in them raiding two more teams.

How do you conduct conference affairs from there? This doesn't even consider the Big XII coming in after FSU, etc.

They replaced UM with UL, after some internal squabbling, virtually immediately. It seems as though they have to continue with a simultaneous reaction to keep moving forward. My response presumes, as we sit here today, that, as an example, Maryland no longer has a vote in ACC matters, but Pitt and Syracuse do. In other words, once you've been accepted and your paperwork clears the ACC's front office, you have a vote, even if you haven't played game one in the league just yet.

If any conference has to shore itself up with the best remaining programs available upon taking a hit, the ACC is that conference. Perhaps UConn isn't regarded as a player by the B4, but I'm not sure the ACC has the luxury of thinking along those lines.

xudash
12-03-2012, 02:13 PM
I would giggle like a schoolgirl if that happened

Actually, if we truly believe joining up with the BE hoops schools makes the most sense for Xavier's program, we want those @ssclowns out of our way. Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue if the BE hoops schools took absolute control of the league and pushed towards a hoops emphasis, but they're not inclined to do that at this point.

They see UC and Xavier being a wash, as far as having a Cincinnati program is concerned, which I take as a compliment, given that school size, etc. all factor into this, but they're still hopeful a reasonable hybrid can be salvaged.

waggy
12-03-2012, 02:23 PM
I think the ACC will do what ESPN wants them to.

_LH
12-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Good point about Temple.

Otherwise, there is no clear best way to navigate this, because no one can be certain when the next B4 conference is going to make a move and then know what chain reaction such a move may set-off. So, let's say they sit tight at 10 - their conference championship is an abject failure anyway. But then the B1G actually comes around to announcing the "acquisition" of G Tech. Then it takes - pick one - UVA or UNC. That puts the SEC in motion, resulting in them raiding two more teams.

How do you conduct conference affairs from there? This doesn't even consider the Big XII coming in after FSU, etc.

They replaced UM with UL, after some internal squabbling, virtually immediately. It seems as though they have to continue with a simultaneous reaction to keep moving forward. My response presumes, as we sit here today, that, as an example, Maryland no longer has a vote in ACC matters, but Pitt and Syracuse do. In other words, once you've been accepted and your paperwork clears the ACC's front office, you have a vote, even if you haven't played game one in the league just yet.

If any conference has to shore itself up with the best remaining programs available upon taking a hit, the ACC is that conference. Perhaps UConn isn't regarded as a player by the B4, but I'm not sure the ACC has the luxury of thinking along those lines.

I understand what you are saying about a need to replace but they should be very careful about the schools they choose as replacements. If, as you say, the B12, SEC and B10 take their turns raiding the ACC, I would assume that the ACC would lose: FSU, GTech, Clemson, V-Tech and one or two other schools as well. This would leave the ACC with 6 to 8 football members. If it is 8, they could still add UCONN and UC/Temple because UCONN, Termple and UC have no where else to go. Add in South Florida to the mix as well.

If I'm a program like Wake and Duke that does not seem to have a place to land other than the ACC, I wait to add programs until they get to the point where there would only be 6-8 schools left in the conference.

xudash
12-03-2012, 02:44 PM
I understand what you are saying about a need to replace but they should be very careful about the schools they choose as replacements. If, as you say, the B12, SEC and B10 take their turns raiding the ACC, I would assume that they ACC would lose: FSU, GTech, Clemson, V-Tech and one or two other schools as well. This would leave the ACC with 6 to 8 football members. If it is 8, they could still add UCONN and UC/Temple because UCONN, Termple and UC have no where else to go. Add in South Florida to the mix as well.

If I'm a program like Wake and Duke that does not seem to have a place to land other than the ACC, I wait to add programs until they get to the point where there would only be 6-8 schools left in the conference.

Understand. I see your point and agree with your logic.

A lot of this has to do with timing and how different parties, such as Swofford and the ACC's front office, want to be perceived. Do they continue to appear decisive or not? Too your point, when the remaining inventory of potential schools approaches the bottom of the barrel, what value does being decisive bring?

Probably not much. That would look something like the ACC picking up UC, and Ohio State finding that to be a cute move.

BandAid
12-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Actually, if we truly believe joining up with the BE hoops schools makes the most sense for Xavier's program, we want those @ssclowns out of our way. Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue if the BE hoops schools took absolute control of the league and pushed towards a hoops emphasis, but they're not inclined to do that at this point.

They see UC and Xavier being a wash, as far as having a Cincinnati program is concerned, which I take as a compliment, given that school size, etc. all factor into this, but they're still hopeful a reasonable hybrid can be salvaged.

I see this shaking out one of two ways:

1. The Big East is left standing with a hybrid of the leftover Big East basketball schools and the Conference USA football schools. I wouldn't want to join that monstrosity. So I could care less if UC or Temple is there or anywhere else.

2. The Big East gets so annhilated that the basketball schools break off and form their own conference. If this happens, those schools probably will form a basketball-centric conference, which from all sources I've heard wouldn't include Temple or UC.

Therefore, UC's landing place or lack thereof is of little concern to me. And having Temple chosen over them into one of the major conferences would make me giddy.

But that's just me.

Now, if UC leaving instead of Temple expedites the dissolution of the Big East, then I'll be pulling for UC to leave.

chico
12-03-2012, 03:17 PM
You have to wonder if the BB only members have quietly gone to ESPN or some other network to see what a bb only conference with them and schools like X and Butler would bring in. Or maybe they are that stupid to not do something so proactive.

bleedXblue
12-03-2012, 03:18 PM
I see this shaking out one of two ways:

1. The Big East is left standing with a hybrid of the leftover Big East basketball schools and the Conference USA football schools. I wouldn't want to join that monstrosity. So I could care less if UC or Temple is there or anywhere else.

2. The Big East gets so annhilated that the basketball schools break off and form their own conference. If this happens, those schools probably will form a basketball-centric conference, which from all sources I've heard wouldn't include Temple or UC.

Therefore, UC's landing place or lack thereof is of little concern to me. And having Temple chosen over them into one of the major conferences would make me giddy.

But that's just me.

Now, if UC leaving instead of Temple expedites the dissolution of the Big East, then I'll be pulling for UC to leave.


If I'm UC, I would seriously consider cancelling football and shoving all in on basketball.

They need two new facilities both of which they have a hard time selling out. How do they pay for both....how do they pay for one considering the Shoe is only 20 years old.

They are definately at a crossroads.

xudash
12-03-2012, 03:23 PM
You have to wonder if the BB only members have quietly gone to ESPN or some other network to see what a bb only conference with them and schools like X and Butler would bring in. Or maybe they are that stupid to not do something so proactive.

I can't imagine someone's not done this. Hell, for all we know, Mike B. called them about it to see what it would mean for us, in case they do come calling at some point.

Who knows.

I'm just sitting here, waiting for JJT37 to pop in with more tweets.

DC Muskie
12-03-2012, 03:25 PM
I can't imagine someone's not done this. Hell, for all we know, Mike B. called them about it to see what it would mean for us, in case they do come calling at some point.

Who knows.

I'm just sitting here, waiting for JJT37 to pop in with more tweets.

How would that work exactly?

Can't they look at the data and see what the market rate is and figure out a ballpark? Why do they need to talk to someone at a network about it? It seems shady to me.

xudash
12-03-2012, 03:42 PM
How would that work exactly?

Can't they look at the data and see what the market rate is and figure out a ballpark? Why do they need to talk to someone at a network about it? It seems shady to me.

I don't know how much data they have.

Beyond that, I don't know if this would be about "art and science." In other words, regardless of what the data may say, is there a "feel" aspect of this the network people would take, in terms of calibrating any agreement up or down for perceived risk? This would be a completely new deal for them: mix of teams; number of channels out there now, requiring content; football as the driver in all this with hoops along for the ride, etc.

If they have the necessary data, can they most likely generate a ballpark economic value for it? Probably. They probably can do that now without data, knowing that the A10 is at $350k per school and the last low-end number for a BE hoops school in a hybrid was $1.06mm. On that basis, call it $500k to $1mm tops.

chico
12-03-2012, 03:52 PM
I don't know how much data they have.

Beyond that, I don't know if this would be about "art and science." In other words, regardless of what the data may say, is there a "feel" aspect of this the network people would take, in terms of calibrating any agreement up or down for perceived risk? This would be a completely new deal for them: mix of teams; number of channels out there now, requiring content; football as the driver in all this with hoops along for the ride, etc.

If they have the necessary data, can they most likely generate a ballpark economic value for it? Probably. They probably can do that now without data, knowing that the A10 is at $350k per school and the last low-end number for a BE hoops school in a hybrid was $1.06mm. On that basis, call it $500k to $1mm tops.

I think Bobinski is smart enough to do this, but with the way the BE schools have been acting I'm not so sure about them. Add the fact that you would think something like that would leak out at some point makes me think that they haven't done this.

I think a lot of it depends on if a network would get behind it. One of the networks will probably be left out when it comes to carrying one of the big 4 football conferences, so they would probably love to have the premier non-big 4 basketball conference. At least you hope so.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-03-2012, 04:59 PM
This conference re-alignment news is getting hilarious.

Eric Barron, the President of FSU, apparently called out "TheDudeofWV" specifically and said he was just trying to 'drive up site traffic'.

The Dude responded with

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Eric Barron knows exactly where my information came from.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@mwmlonestar It's simple. Barron wants to stay in the ACC & boosters want out. He's feeling the heat.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@HoneyRoyPalmer I know. I'm not sure how to respond. I could burn him.


Then MHver3 jumped into it:

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
My take on theDude getting called out by President Barron: why even acknowledge him? Why try to specifically discredit?

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
You don't unless there's something to it.

Meanwhile there are all these 'realignment twitter bloggers' in love/hate relationships with each other. It's like a realignment soap opera with new characters entering the fray and storylines galore

-MHver3 and Mengus22 have an ongoing feud. They hate each other. MHver put in his profile 'teabaggin mengus' and called Mengus a douche. Mengus called him a clown.
-Greg Swaim(GSwaim) and Mengus22 hate each other. Mengus blocked Swaim and Swaim calls him Dingus22
-Tuxedoyoda and Mengus22 hate each other.
-Tuxedoyoda and Greg Swaim hate each other
-MHver3 and The Dude love each other
-The Dude and Mengus22 love each other

Also, now there is a "The Dude of Clemson" twitter account who's sole mission is to attack and discredit "The Dude of WV". There's an "Obnoxious Wonka" character going after MHver3. Everyone goes after Swaim. This is like a horrible soap opera train wreck

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 05:01 PM
And there's this guy:

@TheDeaconReport admits he's a fraud.
"BREAKING: Twitter is one of the most dangerous weapons of misinformation and propaganda we have at our disposal. it is far too easy to spread misinformation. I have zero connections to anything remotely connected, and within 12 hours my fantastical tweets appeared on hundreds of forums across the web, generated thousands of comments, and prompted discussion by national media (Hi Gus). Digest, people. Review, reflect, and collect your thoughts. Use perspective. Don't run with the only rumor out there that you want to believe, regardless of how illegitimate the source may be. I shudder to think at the opinions that can be swayed on potentially more serious subject matters by an essential nobody. At the very least this medium has the ability for one man to alter the direction of public discourse, if only for a little while. Peace out, good luck, and please do not put down $ on any bridges."

BMoreX
12-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Haha The Dude of Clemson.

That made me laugh. Kudos to whoever made that twitter handle.

paulxu
12-03-2012, 05:13 PM
and called Mengus a douche. Mengus called him a clown.

Wait...I think those guys post on this board under different names?

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Wait...I think those guys post on this board under different names?

Retarded giraffe?

BMoreX
12-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Stop the presses!

Per @wspaxton (Fairfield beat writer)
Source: Quinnipiac, Monmouth reportedly to join MAAC.

DC Muskie
12-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Retarded giraffe?

That's not a name, that's a way of life.

Masterofreality
12-03-2012, 05:29 PM
Stop the presses!

Per @wspaxton (Fairfield beat writer)
Source: Quinnipiac, Monmouth reportedly to join MAAC.

Now,

If you would have said F-m and LaSuck to the MAAC, you would have my attention.

bigdiggins
12-03-2012, 05:40 PM
Now,

If you would have said F-m and LaSuck to the MAAC, you would have my attention.

They aren't good enough, the MAAC won't take them. We need PAtriot or NEC to step up.

xudash
12-03-2012, 08:03 PM
This conference re-alignment news is getting hilarious.

Eric Barron, the President of FSU, apparently called out "TheDudeofWV" specifically and said he was just trying to 'drive up site traffic'.

The Dude responded with

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Eric Barron knows exactly where my information came from.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@mwmlonestar It's simple. Barron wants to stay in the ACC & boosters want out. He's feeling the heat.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@HoneyRoyPalmer I know. I'm not sure how to respond. I could burn him.


Then MHver3 jumped into it:

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
My take on theDude getting called out by President Barron: why even acknowledge him? Why try to specifically discredit?

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
You don't unless there's something to it.

Meanwhile there are all these 'realignment twitter bloggers' in love/hate relationships with each other. It's like a realignment soap opera with new characters entering the fray and storylines galore

-MHver3 and Mengus22 have an ongoing feud. They hate each other. MHver put in his profile 'teabaggin mengus' and called Mengus a douche. Mengus called him a clown.
-Greg Swaim(GSwaim) and Mengus22 hate each other. Mengus blocked Swaim and Swaim calls him Dingus22
-Tuxedoyoda and Mengus22 hate each other.
-Tuxedoyoda and Greg Swaim hate each other
-MHver3 and The Dude love each other
-The Dude and Mengus22 love each other

Also, now there is a "The Dude of Clemson" twitter account who's sole mission is to attack and discredit "The Dude of WV". There's an "Obnoxious Wonka" character going after MHver3. Everyone goes after Swaim. This is like a horrible soap opera train wreck

Xavier won't make out in any of this, but these clowns will end up with their own TV reality show.

xudash
12-03-2012, 09:04 PM
http://sulia.com/channel/college-football/f/545c31f8-b6b3-4cd7-b2d6-1f5f467c2c94/?source=twitter

GT/UVA
On Friday I tweeted a report about Georgia Tech and Virginia, which turned out to be inaccurate -- for the time being. I can only offer my apologies to the people I misled. Changes in the ACC are on the cusp of fruition, but today is not that day.

The reality is that NCAA conference realignment is one of the more complex issues today in sports. Powerful people inside various universities have certain agendas. My sources, no matter how influential and credible they may be, indeed were not enough to run with a story of this magnitude. I found out the hard way.

I vow to not be defined by this error in judgment and look forward to interacting with all of you through various media platforms.

GoMuskies
12-03-2012, 09:16 PM
Hard to believe someone actually posted that explanation. So many people have been wrong so many times (and so few have been right at all) that it's kind of amazing to see someone taking themselves to task for running with a sketchily sourced story that ended up being wrong.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-04-2012, 11:33 AM
"FSU President calls out 'The Dude'"

http://www.leatherhelmetblog.com/2012-articles/december/fsu-president-calls-out-the-dude.html

Florida State University President Eric Baron was addressing a group of boosters at a breakfast meeting recently. During his talk he made the following statements according to an attendee.


"He was very impressive and clearly focused on our academics. He did a great job. He did get one question on the ACC. He made it clear that there is a lot of nonsense on the boards and he called out the dude from WVU as being someone who is throwing out stories for his blog.

On the other hand, he made it clear that he studies all of this, he is in constant contact with "various presidents", and make no mistake - he is watching out for FSU and only FSU. To be blunt, he is all over this. Then he says cryptically that he thinks there will be changes. But he would say no more."

[Scout.com]

You may remember that starting just over a year ago Dude of WV wrote a series of posts about WVU's attempts to secure SEC membership on LHB. They were widely read nationally. He has continued to develope informative information as WVU moved to the Big 12 and conference expansion has heated up again.

Prior to publishing any of his articles, I asked for the idenity of his primary source and indepentedly verified their relationship. Boy, is it a good source.

Dude was upset about the charge that he is "throwing out stories" on his blog. The implication, of course, being that he is making up his expansion articles. I reassured him that if the president of a major university has gone out of his way to trash him at a booster meeting, he must've hit a few bull's-eyes.

At any rate, Dude of WV has a new blog post in Mr. Barron's honor. Here are a few excerpts:


At every step in the process I freely shared whatever information I had and I was fortunate enough to have others share their information with me. Every piece of the puzzle was verified and although some details remain murky, like the specifics of the ACC contract, I was able to independently verify each and every one of the items I’ve written about.

I stand by my assertion that both FSU and Clemson had significant talks with the Big 12 and that both were willing to leave the ACC based on facts collaborated by my media contacts, independent of WVU, who covered FSU, Clemson and the SEC.

Eric Barron can deflect all he wants and try to reassure his boosters but the fact remains the ACC has problems that that threaten their stability.

As for Eric Barron calling me out by name I have a few simple questions for him:

1. Have you or anyone acting on FSU’s behalf spoken to the Big 10, Big 12 or SEC about conference membership?
2. Have you or any agent of FSU retained outside representation to review or prepare financial documents related to Big 10, Big 12 or SEC membership?
3. Have you or anyone representing FSU spoken to the Big 12 conference in the past 14 days.
4. Have you spoken with senior leadership at Boston College, Clemson, UVA, Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech about their plans in regards to ACC membership.
5. Have you even bothered to read my blog?

Barron admitted he has been talking to other university presidents and you can bet those presidents are in the Big 10, SEC and Big 12.

So until the ACC either releases details of its TV contract or signs a grant-of-rights it would be foolish not to think Eric Barron isn’t fulfilling his fiduciary responsibility to explore FSU’s options as the Big 10 plans its next move.

xudash
12-04-2012, 12:08 PM
Very interesting JTT37, as usual.

Where are we in all this, really? I submit that we are precisely at the point where Delaney is determining which gob of television sets he wants to pick-up next for the BTN. So I still see the next move being made by the B1G.

Once that move is made, all hell may break loose.

Is it a surprise that the B12 is standing pat at present? I don't think so. They know they'll be after schools that the B1G isn't after and they'll also be after schools that the SEC won't take, due to existing market coverage (e.g. FSU in Florida and Clemson in SC). The B12(10) can sit tight and react.

Thinking all this through, I'll be stunned if G Tech doesn't end up in the B1G. Thank God Delaney's last name isn't Sherman. That would've complicated things a little.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-04-2012, 12:59 PM
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Awaiting confirmation but we may have just landed FSU.

ben george ‏@laxtonto
@MHver3 You citing the DFW radio guys or someone else?

MHVer3
@laxtonto them in a roundabout way. I'm trying to get my source to confirm or deny.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
This is looking premature guys. My source says talks are heated but to call it done would be very premature.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
These guys have a source close to Dodds and trying to get a scoop.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Something's going down...

----

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@GSwaim Know anything about the ESPN affiliate in Dallas saying FSU to Big 12?

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@GSwaim I hear the same. Everybody has their e-ticket out of the ACC & just waiting for the boarding call.

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
Was told morning show on 1310 The Ticket in Dallas have sources saying an FSU to the B12 announcement could come soon - anyone hear this?

xudash
12-04-2012, 01:10 PM
Ha! So much for my theory about the B12 waiting for a little bit.

Overall, it sounds like everyone is already past the idea of worrying about UM's exit fee. No one is sitting around, waiting for a final determination on that, given that they've all had their legal counsels advise them that it isn't going to be the full number.

Otherwise, I can assure you that the climate down here with fans in Northeast Florida is all about FSU getting out of the ACC. They can't believe how far they're falling behind UF at this point: in results, prestige and, most importantly, money.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-04-2012, 01:15 PM
Lot of smoke. We just need one team to jump...Doesn't matter who. Then the mass exodus will follow

Josh McKinnon ‏@JoshMcKinnon
#FSU to the #Big12? Could it finally be true. Multiple sources say so, we shall see...I want #SEC, but anything is better than the #ACC

Josh McKinnon ‏@JoshMcKinnon
“@Deezic91: @JoshMcKinnon more uniformed bloggers or real #sources this time?” ESPN Radio in Dallas

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
The dams about to break.

The Dude weighs in:


Warning: Conference realignment rumors are not for the faint of heart. The contents of this blog are pure speculation until endorsed by the mainstream media and at least 95% of registered users of at least one accredited message board. University presidents should refrain from reading this blog and should instead call Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby.

Who said UVA and Georgia Tech would sign on to the Big 10 Monday? If there’s anything I’ve learned about conference realignment its that you can’t put a timetable on expansion.

There was a lot of chatter yesterday about UVA and GT and their failure to leave the ACC. I continue to be told it’s a matter of days not weeks and that UVA and GT may be finding it hard to leave. Why? Because John Swofford and a host of other ACC blue-bloods are using every tactic in the book, calling in every favor they can think of, to delay the move. UVA and Georgia Tech know that leaving the ACC means they kill the ACC and that’s a hard thing for them to do especially when egos are being stroked and promises made that are unlikely to pan out.

Tick, tick, tick. Hear that? That’s a time bomb.

Tick, tick, tick. Time is running out for the ACC.

The ACC will make one more play to bring Notre Dame in as a full member and when it fails then the clock strikes midnight for the ACC and the bomb goes off.

Georgia Tech and UVA, despite their protestations, are still likely to be members of the Big 10 conference before we ring in the new year.

Why? Why would ACC stalwarts like Georgia Tech and UVA leave their precious ACC?

Money.

Let’s do the math and give the ACC the benefit of the doubt and use the reported $17 million as the average payout over the 15 year contract with ESPN.

$17 million x 15 years = $255 million.

Let’s go one step further and boast up the ACC’s annual revenue to $19 million to accommodate the Orange Bowl deal.

$19 million x 15 years = $285 million.

$285 million seems like a lot of money until you compare it to the Big 12′s revenues. Dennis Dodd recently reported that Big 12 revenues will be over $30 million per year beginning in 2014.

$30 million x 15 years = $450 million.

That’s $165 million more over the lifetime of the television contract. You tell me if you think $165 million is enough incentive to leave.

Now consider the Big 10 is likely to play $20 million more per year than the ACC.

Georgia Tech and UVA are set to receiver $240 million more than what the ACC pays out over the 15 year term of the ACC’s contract.

We don’t even know what the SEC will pay out when their have their new contract in place and their brand new SEC network but we can bet it will be more than what the Big 10 pays outs. Let’s be conservative and estimate the SEC’s payout will be $40 million per year – that’s $600 million dollars over 15 years and $315 million more than the ACC is set to receive.

$165, $240 and $315 million – that’s the gap ACC schools must contend with as they ponder their future in the ACC.

Consider this too — the Big 12 will almost assuredly improve their numbers if they expand into the south-east.

The money is there to make it beneficial for Georgia Tech and UVA to move.

The money is there for Virginia Tech to move the SEC.

The money is there for the Big 12 to be an attractive home for FSU, Clemson and a host of others.

The money is there, even with a $52 million buyout, to make moving attractive.

It’ only a matter of time before the ACC implodes and FSU president Eric Barron knows it.

Barron and his compatriots at UVA and Georgia Tech have the fiduciary responsibility to explore their options and the money will be the difference maker.

And don’t think endowments or total operating budgets mean the gap is less significant that it is. Endowments cannot be used for anything other than their intended purpose. Athletic programs at this level must be self-supporting especially with reduced state funding and restrictions on tuition increases.

If Eric Barron doesn’t make the move Florida State will not be able to compete with the SEC schools surrounding the Seminoles.

You can say the same about Georgia Tech and Clemson. If they don’t move they will not be able to compete. And it won’t be a quick death. It will be slow death of starvation brought about by bad decisions and clinging to a tradition of bad football and good basketball.

http://www.eersauthority.com/the-barron-report-conference-expansion-today/

xsteve1
12-04-2012, 02:23 PM
Why was Louisville so excited to join the ACC when it seems that conference will be on the outside looking in when all is said and done?

xudash
12-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Why was Louisville so excited to join the ACC when it seems that conference will be on the outside looking in when all is said and done?

Because it was a "get out of here at all costs" proposition at the time they made the decision. I understand your point and couldn't agree with you more, but no one said this was going to be a smooth process, given that collusion hasn't been available to Delaney and Slive, etc.

xudash
12-04-2012, 02:48 PM
"Barron and his compatriots at UVA and Georgia Tech have the fiduciary responsibility to explore their options and the money will be the difference maker."

There it is right there. Who honestly believes they'll stay in the ACC, given what is known now, and given what is projected?

LA Muskie
12-04-2012, 03:37 PM
"Barron and his compatriots at UVA and Georgia Tech have the fiduciary responsibility to explore their options and the money will be the difference maker."

There it is right there. Who honestly believes they'll stay in the ACC, given what is known now, and given what is projected?
If the $$$ differential truly is what he's reporting (or even close to it), their hands are tied. Especially in this economy, but frankly even if the economy was kicking ass they'd have to do it. It may be a bittersweet decision for many at these schools (one of my best friends is a Maryland grad and huge fan, and he absolutely hates the B1G move). But it's a decision that nevertheless will have to be made.

GoMuskies
12-04-2012, 04:27 PM
Why was Louisville so excited to join the ACC when it seems that conference will be on the outside looking in when all is said and done?

The ACC after the explosion will stil be better than the Big East after the explosion.

LA Muskie
12-04-2012, 05:03 PM
The ACC after the explosion will stil be better than the Big East after the explosion.
Plus once again they get to escape Conference USA again (how many schools can say that), and this time they get to be in on the ground floor of the Big East 2.0.

DC Muskie
12-04-2012, 05:17 PM
Bret Bielema to Arkansas! Did. Not. See. That. Coming.

SM#24
12-04-2012, 05:32 PM
That's a shocker.
In less shocking news, Malzahn to Auburn and Charlie Strong is the front runner for Tennessee.

BBC 08
12-04-2012, 05:53 PM
That's a shocker.
In less shocking news, Malzahn to Auburn and Charlie Strong is the front runner for Tennessee.

No. No. No. No. No. Can't hear you. La la la la la.

This can't happen. If it does it will make living in Nashville worse.

GoMuskies
12-04-2012, 05:54 PM
Strong to Tennessee
Petrino to Louisville
GoMuskies to extreme happiness

paulxu
12-04-2012, 05:59 PM
The Dude weighs in:

The contents of this blog are pure speculation until endorsed by the mainstream media and at least 95% of registered users of at least one accredited message board

Hey, I got an idea. We're an "accredited message board," I know this because Muskie told me so.

We might have to expel Amex (who is a great American and was due for a 18/12 year) to retain our accreditation, but sometimes you have to make tough decisions.

Then we throw up a poll, get 95% , and off we go....somewhere.

As for the ACC, when it's down to Duke, Syr, Pitt, Louisville, and some others, it'll be a good basketball conference. Maybe better than the Big Least.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-04-2012, 07:25 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-football/2012/12/04/college-football-rumors-florida-state-headed-to-the-big-12/


With college football teams seemingly always in a state of flux and change and teams on the move constantly, it only makes sense that good teams will gravitate toward other good teams, creating these so called “power conferences”. To some this is a bad thing, the notion that the college football landscape could eventually be controlled by essentially 4 groups. Me? I’m all for it, and with the rumors going around today it is very good news for fans of the Big 12.

The rumor currently circulating on radio stations in the Tampa area is that the Florida State Seminoles have accepted an offer to become a part of the Big 12 conference. If the rumors are to be believed announcement of this could come as early as next week.

My take-This is a win/win for both the conference and for the Seminoles. The ACC conference is among that 2nd tier of conferences and with a playoff in major college football on deck, aligning oneself with a more powerful conference makes perfect sense for FSU. And for the Big 12 they have done an excellent job of building their conference back up after teams vacated recently and bringing a team with the tradition and history of FSU on board would be a huge get for the conference. Not to mention the ability to use the fertile recruiting grounds of Florida by all Big 12 schools would help improve every roster.

Once I heard this rumor I started putting out some feelers to see if I could get any level of confirmation. At this point I am getting a lot of no comments, which to me is promising, because if there was nothing to it, I’d get a no. Make sure to keep checking back as this situation develops further.

GoMuskies
12-04-2012, 10:21 PM
Charlie Strong is the front runner for Tennessee.

Looking like Strong has told Tennessee to suck it.

BBC 08
12-04-2012, 10:32 PM
Looking like Strong has told Tennessee to suck it.

Oh thank god.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-05-2012, 09:47 AM
Chip Brown ‏@ChipBrownOB
Will #Big12 get off expansion sidelines with Florida State looking around? Orangebloods has latest ... http://bit.ly/VzP1de #FSU #Longhorns

Chip Brown ‏@ChipBrownOB
Has the #Big12 even done its homework on #FlaSt to know if it would want add the Seminoles? Talking about it now http://ChipBrownShow.com .

Chip Brown ‏@ChipBrownOB
What would the divisions be if the #Big12 ever added #FlaSt #Clemson #Miami and #VaTech? Talking about it now at http://ChipBrownShow.com .

ACC Sports ‏@ACCSports
@KellyWhiteside: Nebraska president says high exit fees such as $50 million for Maryland to Big Ten is unenforceable. #SBJIAF

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Folks in case you can't tell it by now. The Big 12 has decided to expand.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@DougRankin1 it may be just FSU at first with more to follow. I really can't say just yet.

Sean Guy ‏@guy_sean
@MHver3 Are one or more of the schools that voted yes to the $50 mil just going to have make a move and see what happens with any penalty?

MHver3
@guy_sean no. They will wait and see what Md and FSU pay. ACC better brace themselves.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
What I know: FSU and 3 others are shopping themselves around to the B10 B12 and SEC as a package deal. B12 only conf with serious interest

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
All may not necessarily come at first. FSU would be the first. Remember that like Md they voted no on the buyout increase

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Our contact at Alabama and the one at Ohio State have both confirmed being approached by these same four schools within the last 48 hours

paulxu
12-05-2012, 10:26 AM
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/000/09/000-0926184457-RatsLeavingShip.jpg

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Here is Chip Brown from Texas Orangebloods talking about FSU's interest in the B1G and the B12 along with other re-alignment news
http://chipbrownshow.com/?powerpress_pinw=551-podcast

_LH
12-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Since the BCS will no longer determine the bowl partners except for #1 and #2, what benefit is there to being in a lower tier conference for football? Would programs like UCONN and Duke be better off as independents than being in some kind of left over league with Pitt, Syracuse, UC, etc.?

I know TV money is the simple answer and that negotiating a deal for a league is easier than it would be on their own but programs like Duke and UCONN could remain in a powerful bball conference for all other sports with a nice TV deal and then sell some games to the "haves" for as long as they need to.

SM#24
12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
From everything I've read and digested up to this point, I don't think there is such a thing as a "nice TV deal" unless you bring football to the table.

xudash
12-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Do you believe Delaney intends to make ND's life miserable until he finally snags them:

https://twitter.com/TuxedoYoda:

(part 1) Got interesting info, after taking Maryland/Rutg, B1G gave ND an ultimatum. Come soon or we take 2 more & door closes forever.....

(part 2) .....ND asked for a little time. Is thinking it over. Even if ND goes B1G, they will still take 1 more ACC school. We'll know soon.

I haven't thought about ND recently, as far as realignment goes. They see what everyone else sees: a destabilizing ACC that will most likely be decimated before it's all over.

The SEC won't cut an Olympic Sports deal for them.

The B12 probably would do that, but is that where ND wants to go -- OSU Cowboys/the plains instead of East Coast/Duke?

The reason that no movement came on G Tech and one other at this point could very well be that the B1G provided ND a standstill agreement in consideration for ND figuring out whether they want to drive forward as an independent or within the B4 castle walls.

Who knows. What theatre.

GoMuskies
12-05-2012, 02:21 PM
That's silly. If ND decided to become a full member of the ACC, the ACC's instability is over in an instant. ND knows they can basically do whatever they want and come out fine. They're bigger than the system, so the system cannot do anything to hurt them.

DC Muskie
12-05-2012, 03:01 PM
That's silly. If ND decided to become a full member of the ACC, the ACC's instability is over in an instant. ND knows they can basically do whatever they want and come out fine. They're bigger than the system, so the system cannot do anything to hurt them.

I agree with this. I don't see how ND is left out of anything. Especially if this is driven by television. Personally I don't think ND cares if the ACC becomes a lower tier conference in football. ND's scheduling isn't going to be effected that much by it.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-05-2012, 03:03 PM
BEAU BISHOP ‏@BeauBishop
Reports out of Florida and Texas say that FSU reached out to B1G...B12 as well. Should B1G get involved. FSU attempting to get AAU status.


Check out this chart. This is the reason teams will leave the ACC

@LandThieves: Oklahoma takes in 25 more million dollars of revenue than Florida State. http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12/04/4460673/texas-football-leads-the-way-among.html … #Big12”

xudash
12-05-2012, 04:14 PM
That's silly. If ND decided to become a full member of the ACC, the ACC's instability is over in an instant. ND knows they can basically do whatever they want and come out fine. They're bigger than the system, so the system cannot do anything to hurt them.

How is the ACC's instability over in an instant if ND becomes a full member?

Even if ND were dumb enough to pursue such an option - I doubt ND is stupid enough to believe that joining the ACC on a full-time basis is one of its viable options - it would do so without giving up its television rights to the conference. The other ACC schools would still be far behind in the payouts received by the schools in the B4 conferences, even with a bump from those ND/ACC opponent games not carried by NBC.

Otherwise, I agree that ND carries a great deal of weight and has leverage, but the system can hurt them. Had the Pitt field goal kicker made his field goal, the system would have definitely hurt Notre Dame this season. The system may set-up in a manner that ND will only sniff the playoff system if it manages to go undefeated, especially if it's left in an ACC with a four game commitment that includes the likes of Wake, BC, Syracuse and Pitt - the others will have moved onto greener pastures. In other words, the "system" could help ND to manage its schedule; they'll help them manage it towards weak computer numbers.

2015 Schedule - as an example:

9-5 Texas
9-19 @ Purdue
9-26 Massachusetts
10-10 Navy
10-17 Southern California
11-7 Wake Forest
11-14 @ Pittsburgh
11-21 Syracuse
11-28 @ Stanford
TBA @ Boston College

At first blush, Texas, USC and Stanford, and then crap. And this schedule was probably put together for the most part before last summer's BCS negotiations.

GoMuskies
12-05-2012, 04:18 PM
If ND joins the ACC in football tomorrow, no ACC team would leave. ACC realignment would be over. Of course, it's not gonna happen, because ND doesn't need to. They can do whatever they want, and no one is going to stop them.

xudash
12-05-2012, 04:29 PM
If ND joins the ACC in football tomorrow, no ACC team would leave. ACC realignment would be over. Of course, it's not gonna happen, because ND doesn't need to. They can do whatever they want, and no one is going to stop them.

Based on what television economics?

GoMuskies
12-05-2012, 04:34 PM
It would get worked out. The ACC television deal with Notre Dame involved would make the Big XII blush.

xubrew
12-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Chicago State to the WAC. Now that they've got the Chicago market, the WAC is the next superconference.

GoMuskies
12-05-2012, 07:35 PM
I thought the WAC was dissolving. Obviously it should.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-06-2012, 10:52 AM
Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Mike Aresco says next to the top 5 conferences, "we're next strongest conference." Problem is only top 5 cash at the window

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Mike Aresco: "Our basketball membership understands value of being associated" with football schools

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Mike Slive admits "Project X," better known as SEC Network, could be announced as early as next month

Mike Slive: "Most compelling thing about expansion: No. 1 does it really fit? What is the SEC going to look like 10 years from now?"

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Mike Aresco: "We had to reinvent ourselves as a national football conference. We view ourselves as a conference of opportunity"

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Jim Delany: "There would be more movement in this region, flanks of the Big Ten region. We became more active. Risk in staying same."

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Jim Delany: "We thought there was more risk is embracing the status quo" in why B1G added Rutgers, Maryland

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Bigger B1G? Mich State AD Mark Hollis tells @espn "advantages" to 16-team B1G http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8718339/16-team-big-ten-michigan-state-spartans-ad-mark-hollis-sees-advantages …


The Big Ten recently announced it would increase to 14 members, so can a 16-team Big Ten be far behind?

"There are some advantages to 16 (teams) compared to 14," Michigan State athletic director Mark Hollis told ESPN on Wednesday. "Fourteen is clumsy. We're not out looking for two teams, but basically we will continue to survey the landscape."

Hollis, attending the IMG Intercollegiate Athletics Forum at the Marriott Marquis, said whether the Big Ten expands is dependent to "what happens in other areas" in the country.

"We don't want to get outflanked," Hollis said

"Realignment Today: Is Florida State still in play for potential Big 12 expansion??"

I’m still working on that granting of rights story to help bring a little clarity to the issue of why KU and the rest of the Big 12 schools can’t or, more likely, won’t leave for another conference any time soon.

I’ll make sure you all see that when it’s finished.

For now, though, let’s shift gears back to the concept of the Big 12 adding schools as opposed to any of the current members leaving.

If we’ve learned nothing else through this whole realignment mess it’s that things change quickly and sometimes turn 180 degrees on the same day.

That seems to be the case currently, as the hottest rumors regarding the Big 12 today center on the possible addition of Florida State and perhaps even one or more other ACC schools.

Miami, Virginia Tech, Clemson and, possibly even Georgia Tech could be included if something were to take place. But right now the whole thing seems to be stuck in a holding pattern featuring heads on swivels.

Curt Popejoy of RantSports.com released a recap late Tuesday night that said Tampa radio stations have been reporting that FSU has accepted an invitation to the Big 12 and that an announcement could come as soon as next week.

I don’t think we’re there yet. There are too many elements of this thing still up in the air, whether that’s the result of the ACC’s lawsuit against Maryland to enforce full payment of the $50 million exit fee or the fact that the Big Ten may still be looking to expand its membership, which, if it did, would have a major impact on the rest of the realignment rodeo.

Multiple sources have told me recently that very few people/schools involved in this mess actually enjoy the idea of realignment but are forced to act or at least prepare to act out of a sense of self preservation.

It’s my belief that the Big Ten, SEC, ACC and Big 12 all have been working hard behind the scenes on ways to not only strengthen their conference through proactive movement, but also to ensure that their current lineups will not be harmed by movement elsewhere.

It’s a sticky situation and could spin out of control just as quickly as it could once again calm down.

If there’s one final thing I’ll emphasize (again) it’s that the Big 12 is happy at 10 teams but is not choosing not to be foolish this time around and won’t simply sit around and wait for the rest of the world to act. That does not mean the league will add BYU or Cincinnati just to expand, but it does mean it could give a serious look at some serious candidates, with Florida State being the top priority among them all.

Here are a few links for you to look over while I wait to hear back from some more folks. I’ll try to update this later today and throughout the week.

Here’s the latest from realignment guru Chip Brown at Orangebloods.com, who offers some great insight from the Texas point of view: http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1445262

The Pac-12 continues to stand by the claim that realignment is not on the horizon, but that’s largely because the league does not have as many attractive options as the others should it choose to expand. Here’s the latest from Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott, who recently said San Diego State and Boise State would be on the league’s list of candidates if it were to expand: http://www.pacifictakes.com/2012/12/4/3721260/conference-realignment-pac-12-boise-state-san-diego-bsu-sdsu

Most of this is common knowledge, but it’s laid out very nicely here: http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2012-articles/november/the-big-picture-of-conference-realignment.html

Finally, this is a couple of weeks old now (and, in realignment that’s ancient) but here’s what a member of Florida State’s board of trustees had to say recently regarding FSU’s plans: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2012/11/19/maryland-florida-state-fsu-trustee-andy-haggard-college-conference-expansion-realignment/1715537/
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2012/dec/5/realignment-today-is-florida-state-still/

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Getting word that at least one ACC school has informed the conference they have been talking with another conference.

‏@MHver3
12 oclock and all is not well in ACCland

xudash
12-06-2012, 11:40 AM
My takeaway from all that:

Mike Aresco reminds me of Baghdad Bob. The first two comments above reflect just how perilous a situation the hybrid is in; he isn't going to be able to put a television deal together that makes sufficient sense to enough members. That doesn't mean a split will come soon. It may be more like a low pressure situation that ultimately builds to the crack-up. That assumes the Big4 standstill for a while now, with "a while" probably meaning until next summer or about this time next year.

The B12 clearly is more prone to not adding at this point. In fact, it almost seems as if they'd need a push from action taken by the B1G or SEC in order to go into motion for adding teams 11 and 12.

If it's true that the B1G feels that 14 is not the ideal number, then it sounds like 16 is inevitable, but not necessarily immediate.

Hell on earth can now be defined as exercising your free will to become a Seminole fan.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-06-2012, 11:50 AM
My takeaway from all that:

Mike Aresco reminds me of Baghdad Bob. The first two comments above reflect just how perilous a situation the hybrid is in; he isn't going to be able to put a television deal together that makes sufficient sense to enough members. That doesn't mean a split will come soon. It may be more like a low pressure situation that ultimately builds to the crack-up. That assumes the Big4 standstill for a while now, with "a while" probably meaning until next summer or about this time next year.

The B12 clearly is more prone to not adding at this point. In fact, it almost seems as if they'd need a push from action taken by the B1G or SEC in order to go into motion for adding teams 11 and 12.

If it's true that the B1G feels that 14 is not the ideal number, then it sounds like 16 is inevitable, but not necessarily immediate.

Hell on earth can now be defined as exercising your free will to become a Seminole fan.

@McMurphyESPN: B1G's Jim Delany on expansion: "14 (teams) is good for us. Our position is inactive but alert"

FSU administrators have to be looking at the discrepancy in revenue between what they are getting in the ACC and what they would get Big12 or the B1G. If they aren't, then they clearly are either not qualified or insane.

That being said, I don't see what is taking them so long to decide. "Lets see, do we travel a little bit more and make considerably more money, or do we stay in an unstable ACC for less".

I can't imagine how Seminole fans must feel.

BMoreX
12-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Everything will settle until the Maryland exit fee issue is resolved.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-06-2012, 12:53 PM
In DUH news of the day.

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
From my Austin source: B12 has been told that adding FSU/Clem would bring more $ from TV deals. 4 ACC schools added also means more $.

The B12 may be completely insane if they don't expand:

GoMuskies
12-06-2012, 03:47 PM
ACC Presidents say they are all in this together: http://www.theacc.com/genrel/120612aab.html

BTW, isn't Steger UC's old Pres? I didn't know he was at VPI.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-06-2012, 04:29 PM
ACC Presidents say they are all in this together: http://www.theacc.com/genrel/120612aab.html

BTW, isn't Steger UC's old Pres? I didn't know he was at VPI.

No GoR. I don't take any of these schools on a gentlemen's agreement.

Jimmie Tramel ‏@JimmieTramel
Nothing says every man for himself quite like a public statement of solidarity. #acc

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Barron will wipe his ass with that solidarity statement when he's done using the executive men's room at ACC offices for the last time

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken
@Mengus22 The question isn't who spearheaded the statement. It's who is blocking a grant of rights.

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
FSU won't approve the $50M exit fee & won't sign a GOR but we're expected to believe they are 100% committed to the ACC? Riiiiiiiiiiight

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I think a lot of you don't quite get how much espn stands to lose from BiG and B12 expansion if they raid the ACC

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken
You know why RT @str8dog83: @DanWolken if they are so committed why don't they sign a grant of rights?


Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
I love the ACC solidarity statement. ND won't fully join. FSU voted against $50M exit fee. No one will sign GOR. BUT THEY HAVE A STATEMENT!

Andy Staples ‏@Andy_Staples
14 ACC presidents release statement affirming commitment to the ACC. Six of those schools have hopped leagues in the past 10 years.

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
Executive Director of the Gator Bowl talks realignment: http://gatortalk1.blogspot.com/2012/12/gatortalk-conference-realignment.html …

The conversation got around to conference realignment. For months now, he's
been predicting 4-16 team super conferences and that the ACC would likely
not be part of that...

He said look for GaTech and Virginia to join Maryland and bolt for the Big
10, if that happens look for FSU, VaTech, and Clemson to make a run for the
Big 12.

The interesting part was him saying that the SEC is looking at North
Carolina and DUKE for the SEC, obviously for about football, but to create
the total package for TV.

The SEC is miles ahead of everyone in football, but you add Duke and UNC to
the SEC and all of a sudden we are really good in basketball as well.

The final point was about Miami and how no conference really wanted them and
that they would have a really difficult time financially keeping up if 4
super conferences emerge.

He gave no timetable for his predictions, but he said watch for the
GaTech/Virginia announcement, if/when that happens it will all come down
rapidly.

@dennisdoddcbs: New Big East deal could be worth as little as $60 million per year. http://cbsprt.co/TVm49t

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken
If numbers reported by @dennisdoddcbs end up being on target, that's basically the same amount that convinced BYU to go indy.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
I'm pretty damn sure #15 for the B1G is GT and #16 is BC.

Tuxedo Yoda ‏@TuxedoYoda
Just a reminder, good friend who is a VERY well connected Aggie told me months ago the SEC has always had a HUGE hard-on for UNC.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
If GT went to the B1G they would make $150 million more in the B1G than in the ACC.

X-band '01
12-06-2012, 07:53 PM
ACC Presidents say they are all in this together: http://www.theacc.com/genrel/120612aab.html

BTW, isn't Steger UC's old Pres? I didn't know he was at VPI.

You're correct that Steger used to be the president (pre-Zimpher) at UC.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-07-2012, 10:18 AM
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
C'mon Cincy, not Dan Enos. Really? And telling candidates that you'll be in the ACC by 2016 is a bit premature as well

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Folks the current high bidder for the BE isn't even a major network. And the amount is sad

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
MWC stands to gain the most from the BE misfortune. We are seeing the very real possibility of no more Big East

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@_toolio_ @Mountaineer_Ste I have all but confirmed 2 ACC schools have offers from Big 10. 1 is ready to go & waiting on the other.

GoMuskies
12-07-2012, 10:42 AM
I have all but confirmed

What exactly does that mean?

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-07-2012, 11:04 AM
What exactly does that mean?

That's a good point. I was wondering myself

paulxu
12-07-2012, 11:52 AM
mhver3 ‏@mhver3
folks the current high bidder for the be isn't even a major network. And the amount is sad

pbs?

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-07-2012, 01:50 PM
I have confirmed that at least two ACC schools have offers from the Big 10. One of those schools is Georgia Tech and the other one is waiting on Georgia Tech's decision.

http://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/12/acc-revenue-numbers-dont-lie.html

paulxu
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
You know, I think that means that the B10 would have 15 if both GT and BC went.
But that doesn't blow up the football side of the ACC like having FSU and/or Clemson bolt.

Heck, it suddenly occurs to me that I'm not sure how many are in the B10 after Maryland.
Crap. Need to get my old scorecard out.

xudash
12-07-2012, 02:28 PM
pbs?

Bravo at this point. Maybe the Sci-Fi channel.

BandAid
12-07-2012, 02:45 PM
Maryland + Rutgers = 14 in the B1G

paulxu
12-07-2012, 02:53 PM
Maryland + Rutgers = 14 in the B1G

Yikes! I did forget about Rutgers. Thanks!

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-07-2012, 04:03 PM
'If You’re Going to Create a Superconference, Then Do It Right: The Case for Florida State to the Big Ten'
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/if-youre-going-to-create-a-superconference-then-do-it-right-the-case-for-florida-state-to-the-big-ten/

'Big Ten added Rutgers, Maryland in part to ensure Penn State remains in league'

Alvarez added one other school was interested in joining the Big Ten but the league presidents were not interested because of the team’s academic profile.

He did not identify that school.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/182573751.html

'Analysis: ACC's words not nearly as strong as one deed'
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2012/12/07/analysis-college-realignment-expansion-acc-presidents-commitment-statement/1752757/

waggy
12-07-2012, 07:48 PM
I don't really believe the idea that the B1G added Maryland and Rutgers to protect against Penn State leaving. I don't know exactly how many, but there are millions of reasons why they could never leave.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-10-2012, 11:45 AM
UC Emails reveal quest to leave Big East
Behind-the-scenes look at school's stymied quest to leave Big East'
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121209/news0102/312100021/emails-reveal-uc-s-dilemma?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|


“Big 10 and ACC moves ... could cause Big 12 perhaps to rethink staying at 10 schools,” UC Athletic Director Whit Babcock emailed to President Santa Ono on Nov. 18, before the ACC announced its decision. “We need to focus on both ACC (primarily) but also Big 12.”

“This is going to be a wild ride,” Babcock warned in the Nov. 18 email to Ono. “Can be bumpy and all-consuming. We will navigate it together.”

B10 targeting ACC
http://www.eersauthority.com/expansion-update-big-10-targets-acc/


It’s becoming more and more difficult to write about conference realignment. The Big 10’s raid of the Big East and the ACC and the subsequent countermove of the ACC’s addition of Louisville set in motion events that are harder and harder to track.

It was easy to get details when the Big 12 was the only conference on the hunt, not so easy when the Big 10 entered the scene, and damn difficult when you introduce the competing interests of the Big 10, Big 12 and SEC. Now take that difficulty level and multiply by the number of ACC teams positioning to get out of dodge with the biggest paycheck possible.

What’s certain? What’s probable? What’s unlikely? What’s the buzz?

Here’s what I’m certain about after talking to three separate Big 10 sources. The Big 10 will not stop at 14 and 16 may just be a rest stop on the way to 18; and maybe more

I’m also certain that the Big 10’s endgame is Notre Dame.

Sources within the Big 10 and Boston College have confirmed the Big 10 has approached Boston College and BC believes it is next in line for Big 10 expansion.

Boston College is eager to leave the ACC and many within the ACC tell me that BC’s departure would almost be welcome–except they don’t consider the appeal of Boston College to Notre Dame.

If the Eagles leave the ACC the Big 10 would have 9 of the 10 top markets for Notre Dame included in the Big 10 network with 2 of those markets coming at the expense of the ACC.

Georgia Tech would also add to the Big 10’s appeal to Notre Dame and detract from the ACC’s.

Certainly the Big 10’s motivations for expansion include adding inventory to the Big 10 Network and an everyday presence is the rich recruiting grounds of the south, but it appears the primary motivating factor is the gut the ACC and make the Big 10 the only viable option for Notre Dame.

Doubting the Big 10 would go to such lengths to acquire Notre Dame – what the Big 10’s television deals would be worth with Notre Dame as full member.

Now comes the part that Big 12 fans will not want to hear.

If the Big 10 expands to 16 and plans to add Notre Dame they would have 17 members.

They won’t stop at 17. The Big 10 has targeted FSU as #18.

Sources within the Big 10 tell me that Jim Delaney and Eric Barron have had discussions about the Seminoles joining the Big 10.

Obviously FSU doesn’t fit the academic profile of the Big 10. Obviously Louisville didn’t fit the academic profile of the ACC either. It simply doesn’t matter.

FSU would add valuable TV territory and more importantly add a southern presence for the Big 10 and Notre Dame for recruiting purposes.

Last summer FSU told the Big 12 it would not consider membership without a southern partner. Georgia Tech provides FSU the southern partner it would require in the Big 10.

Clearly FSU prefers the Big 10 to the Big 12. The lure of the additional money of the Big 10 Network gives the Big 10 a natural advantage and the academic reputation of the Big 10 would sooth FSU’s faculty over leaving the ACC.

Sources at Ohio State tell me the Big 10 plans to move shortly after the Orange Bowl by adding Boston College. Delany believes the ACC will be forced to counter with the addition of UCONN and it’s the Huskies that will give Eric Barron and FSU the excuse they need to move.

Barron will claim the ACC is no longer a viable home for FSU football and he will be right.

Louisville is a good program but they lack the tradition or the track-record to elevate ACC football. The Cardinals have one of the best athletic departments in the country and should be admired, but they do not have the stature to save the conference.

Pitt and Syracuse have struggled to compete in the Big East and their administrations have shown a lack of commitment to football.

And what happens to ACC football when their only choice is to add UCONN?

What happens is that FSU and GT leave for the ACC and–as much as I loathe to write it–UNC and Duke leave for the SEC.

We can expect the Big 10 to act shortly after the Orange Bowl.

Tomorrow I’ll write what this means to the Big 12 and West Virginia.

paulxu
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
And what happens to ACC football when their only choice is to add UCONN?

What happens is that FSU and GT leave for the ACC

That's going to be a neat trick.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 12:34 AM
Here you go Dash:

@McMurphyESPN Source told @ESPNAndyKatz MSG may get out of Big East tourney deal if league continues changing membership

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Big East 7 basketball schools met Sunday in New York; considering splitting from football schools, sources told @espn

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
If Big East gets $80M TV deal, hoop schools would get less $ than currently do

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Big East source: "Basketball schools not thrilled w/Tulane & what they will do to lRPI. They would have fallen off ledge if we added ECU"

"Big East BBall first schools reportedly meet on topic of dissolution"


The pressure on Big East commissioner Mike Aresco reached blazing proportions when it was revealed the conference’s basketball-first schools met Monday in New York City to discuss their options going forward.

Veteran college sports reporter Mark Blaudschun wrote on his blog, ajerseyguy.com, that the seven current Big East members that do not sponsor FBS football met to discuss “breaking off on their own.”
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 12:38 AM
Did shit just get real?

The question will be, would SGA still be interested in hosting "the Catholic League's" conference tournament.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 12:40 AM
Thamel says Aresco was there. If so, this is probably less of a story.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 12:41 AM
Did shit just get real?

The question will be, would SGA still be interested in hosting "the Catholic League's" conference tournament.
If the BE deal is low, which many believe it will be, who knows what will happen. The Bball schools are sticking together

waggy
12-11-2012, 01:05 AM
The whole adding Tulane problem seems kinda weird when the basketball schools hold voting power. WTF?

danaandvictory
12-11-2012, 07:37 AM
The whole adding Tulane problem seems kinda weird when the basketball schools hold voting power. WTF?

That and the ECU thing seem like a pretty bald-faced attempt to grab markets that Aresco can leverage in negotiations. "We have the New Orleans and Charlotte markets". Right. Tulane football draws about as well as Elder.

xsteve1
12-11-2012, 09:04 AM
That and the ECU thing seem like a pretty bald-faced attempt to grab markets that Aresco can leverage in negotiations. "We have the New Orleans and Charlotte markets". Right. Tulane football draws about as well as Elder.


No, Elder draws better.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 09:10 AM
ECU has a decent fan base in Charlotte, but Charlotte is western North Carolina. There really aren't any good television markets to point to for ECU (though they have a nice sized fan base in Raleigh as well).

xudash
12-11-2012, 09:47 AM
Here you go Dash:

@McMurphyESPN Source told @ESPNAndyKatz MSG may get out of Big East tourney deal if league continues changing membership

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Big East 7 basketball schools met Sunday in New York; considering splitting from football schools, sources told @espn

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
If Big East gets $80M TV deal, hoop schools would get less $ than currently do

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Big East source: "Basketball schools not thrilled w/Tulane & what they will do to lRPI. They would have fallen off ledge if we added ECU"

"Big East BBall first schools reportedly meet on topic of dissolution"


http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova

I just can't see them NOT doing it at this point. This thing was too far gone when they went for Boise State and SDSU to save football, let alone making moves from there that included adding Tulane.

It's down to the television money, and the television money is coming into clearer view. They can see that the view for the hybrid path isn't very pretty.

Timing? The Big4 could move as soon as the bowls finish up. The BE schools may not have to drag this out to the summertime.

STL_XUfan
12-11-2012, 09:48 AM
From Andy Katz
Key RT@jensenoffcampus: Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 10:24 AM
Andy Katz ‏@ESPNAndyKatz
The 7 Big East Catholic schools are no longer naive. They know UC and UConn won't out. They want to be in a basketball conference

Andy Katz ‏@ESPNAndyKatz
The tough decision for 7 schools is they would need to dissolve the league. Can't just leave without assets, pay exit fee.

Andy Katz ‏@ESPNAndyKatz
Television money is the key. Would they get a better deal on their own or with new BE schools? No set timetable. But 7 are now engaged.

Andy Katz ‏@ESPNAndyKatz
Last on this: Multiple bids would come from a 10-12 league that includes Gtown, MQ, 'Nova, StJ and possible top A-10 schools.


tweets

DC Muskie
12-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Does anyone get the feeling the BB only schools seem to be caught off guard a bit by the realization they aren't going to get the money they thought they would from an expanded BE?

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 10:50 AM
Mike Jensen ‏@jensenoffcampus
Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.

This makes it interesting. If Temple has a vote, I don't think the basketball schools will have the majority needed to dissolve the "football" side of the conference or to kick out members. (At least, that is what people are saying on other realignment board.)

BandAid
12-11-2012, 11:01 AM
Mike Jensen ‏@jensenoffcampus
Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.

This makes it interesting. If Temple has a vote, I don't think the basketball schools will have the majority needed to dissolve the "football" side of the conference or to kick out members. (At least, that is what people are saying on other realignment board.)

Makes it interesting until UConn, UC, or anyone else gets poached after the Bowl season.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Does anyone get the feeling the BB only schools seem to be caught off guard a bit by the realization they aren't going to get the money they thought they would from an expanded BE?

Yes and that's absolutely mindboggling to me. Maybe they are being PR savvy. Or maybe the Bball only school presidents are woefully ignorant, inept, unable to adapt to the changing conference environment, or just not bright. Anyone could see this coming a mile away. Especially after they turned down the huge ESPN deal causing ESPN to go behind their backs and help lure BE teams to other conferences

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 11:16 AM
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn offering BE bball schools 2.5 million per year for all hoops league

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Mike T contacted by St Johns about coming back to be commissioner for this new league as it starts up

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Ha! Good one, MHver.

MHettel
12-11-2012, 11:23 AM
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn offering BE bball schools 2.5 million per year for all hoops league

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Mike T contacted by St Johns about coming back to be commissioner for this new league as it starts up

If this is true, then our fate is sealed. 100% lock that the BE BBall schools would jump on this, and pull the obvious A10 schools into it. NO WAY would we pass that up.

And who cares on the auto bid. Good basketball is good basketball. You dont need the autobid if you field competitive teams (although they could maybe get a waiver of some sort due to the current mess)

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 11:34 AM
If this is true, then our fate is sealed. 100% lock that the BE BBall schools would jump on this, and pull the obvious A10 schools into it. NO WAY would we pass that up.

And who cares on the auto bid. Good basketball is good basketball. You dont need the autobid if you field competitive teams (although they could maybe get a waiver of some sort due to the current mess)

Its a big IF. The guy has been right on some stuff but he tends to just make stuff up as he goes. I just post some of his quotes for entertainment purposes.

-----

Big East split fits Marquette's thoughts
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/182976271.html

With so many big-name defections from the Big East, the Golden Eagles have been seeing their future in a basketball-only league.

It was reported late Monday night that DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova met with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco Sunday to express their concerns about where the league is headed.

It has lost Notre Dame, West Virginia, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and Louisville while replacing those schools with Memphis, Tulane, Temple, Central Florida, SMU and Houston.

Marquette officials have been hinting that the school would probably break free with the other members and either do not play football or do not emphasize the sport to form their own league.

A source told ESPN.com that "it's too early to say" that such a league would happen anytime soon.

It's clear that no one in the Big East is happy with Tulane because that school would help no one's RPI rating at tournament time.

If the seven schools break free, it could add others like Xavier, St. Louis, Dayton and Virginia Commonwealth.

I'll have more later.

Big East hoops schools talking split from football
http://www.vuhoops.com/big-east/2012/12/11/3754250/big-east-hoops-school-talking-split-from-football

"With Villanova taking a leadership role, the basketball schools are exploring every avenue to," advance the "core asset" of basketball, according to a letter from the Wildcats' AD, Vince Nicastro. It appears that the plan for advancement is to participate in discussions about forming a new conference of basketball schools, that would attempt to raid some of the better programs from the Atlantic 10 or CAA conferences.

The current state of the Big East is unlikely to afford the Big East basketball schools a raise from the approximately $1.5 million they currently receive from television every season. That revenue has long been a driver of basketball success for schools like Villanova and Georgetown, even if it hasn't translated into big results at other schools in the league -- and those two schools along with St. John's have, in the past, been bigger proponents of staying together with the football side of the conference.

Now, reports make it seem that those sentiments may be shifting.

If they were to split off, the basketball schools would need to fill out their roster and would do so with other smaller, mostly private schools with recent basketball success and no FBS football programs. Schools like, Butler, VCU, Xavier, Saint Louis, Dayton, George Mason and Creighton.

In one estimate, the new Big East line-up might only be worth $80 million per season, which would likely result in a decrease from the current payouts that the Catholic schools are used to. That may be the factor that changed the direction that the wind was blowing for these schools.

Then again, television networks haven't shown any willingness to pay out amounts as big as the $7 figure per-school payouts that the old Big East was earning annually for a basketball-only product. The Catholic schools would also need to expand to offer networks enough television inventory to create value, though such a move might also dilute the product offered.

A non-FBS conference wouldn't offer anywhere close to the quality of product that the old Big East offered. For television networks, the large markets might be attractive, but the television ratings of the programs currently in the mix to join this league aren't likely to reach the same heights as the old Big East -- which despite it's basketball prowess, still was at the bottom of the six power conferences in average TV ratings. Without Syracuse, Pittsburgh, UConn and Louisville, the Catholic schools will have to hope that a few marquee match-ups like Villanova/Georgetown are enough to carry a league whose ratings may not make a Neilsen-blip otherwise.

Travel in a league with Creighton, located in Omaha, Nebraska, isn't a serious savings over travel to major airport hubs in Texas, Memphis, Florida and New Orleans. So savings on travel may not make up a huge portion of the difference in TV rights fees by offering savings elsewhere, unless the schools constructed a league with members they could bus to.

Madison Square Garden could also potentially back out of their recent long-term extension with the Big East if membership continues to change, according to an ESPN source. The arena wouldn't necessarily align with the basketball members either, as it might prefer to host more NCAA tournament games and be part of the ACC tournament rotation.

As NCAA compliance-blogger John Infante tweeted, "College athletics in 2012 is like the housing market in 2007. If the asset value stops just going up, you are already bankrupt." No matter what league the Catholic schools end up in, the value of their asset has declined without a BCS-AQ conference to house it. The question is which option will do the least damage.

Consider this: Villanova should know how fickle fans can be. While games against major Big East opponents or opponents from other major conferences might sell out the Wells Fargo Center when Villanova has a competitive team, a bad season or a bad opponent can just as easily lead to an empty arena. This season, even the Pavilion crowds have been weaker than normal, what will the Wildcats do when their biggest draw after Georgetown is St. John's?

At least in the FBS Big East conference, strong basketball programs at UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple would still be coming into town to help sell tickets. There would be plenty of duds as well, but it isn't as if the Catholic league is full of recognizable draws for Villanova fans. Even the addition of Xavier, for example, may not be the kind of addition that can sell out the Wells Fargo Center, the distant midwestern school is about as familiar to fans as Marquette and is about as strong a program, but Marquette left thousands of seats unoccupied last season.

There was reportedly a major concern on the part of the basketball schools that adding Tulane to the league for basketball would damage the league's RPI rating and hurt their NCAA tournament chances. They nonetheless voted to include the New Orleans school in their conference, likely because they felt ECU would have been worse and the conference needed to add another school as an all-sports member.

Of course, Villanova could have stemmed those concerns by stepping up their own program to FBS, and becoming a football member. There are no indications that such a move was ever on the table, however, and Villanova leadership reportedly would prefer not to move football into FBS through a non-power conference.

The Catholic schools likely can't simply dissolve the league by voting as a bloc, since Temple University became a full voting member on July 1, 2012, according to their contract with the Big East. That would give them the football members of the conference just enough votes to block a dissolution.

By leaving the Big East without dissolving the conference, the basketball members, and specifically Villanova and Georgetown, would forfeit what has been significant NCAA conference payouts from their recent deep tournament runs. The Big East will continue to receive that NCAA revenue for a few years going forward, including revenue generated by Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and West Virginia, that will stay with the league -- Rutgers did not generate any NCAA tournament revenue during it's Big East tenure.

It would cost these schools $5 million each to withdraw from the Big East conference.

After sitting idle for over a year as the Big East crumbled, the Catholic schools are only now beginning to look at their futures. Ironically, their thinking about a basketball-first conference without football is more of a blast-from-the-past, a look toward the original dream of Dave Gavitt in pulling the Big East together. The original Big East, however, brought together schools with football and without, public universities and private, and existed in a time when football didn't have to be part of the equation.

Creating a basketball-first conference would be a bet that the future of college athletics will take a dramatic turn in favor of regular-season basketball after around 100-years of football supremacy. The power of college football in driving fan interest, media interest, money and power has been apparent since the 1950s (which was ironically around the time when many Big East Catholic schools were dropping that sport). The basketball members of the Big East may achieve stability by departing, but achieving growth may be harder.

A decision on whether to stay or go should be made before July 1, 2013, when the Big East is slated to welcome most of it's new membership. Another option may be to bolster Big East basketball by adding additional basketball-only members, such as Xavier, to the current FBS league.


St. John's among Big East schools mulling split report
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_schools_mull_split_vopxZfKbuLXSSlY7KQ8VUK ?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Football

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 11:38 AM
Big East Catholic schools wake up?
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8735643/did-big-east-core-catholic-basketball-schools-wake-college-basketball


Finally, the Big East -- the true essence of the league, not the ramshackle Ellis Island it has currently become -- is doing something.

After years of having their fate decided for them, the seven Catholic basketball-playing schools gathered with commissioner Mike Aresco in New York on Sunday to discuss their options, according to published reports confirmed and detailed by ESPN's Andy Katz and Brett McMurphy.

No decisions, votes or decisive actions were taken, but at least the seven universities -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- that represent Dave Gavitt's original hoops-oriented vision are working to determine their future instead of having it dictated to them.

There's no doubt the options aren't great. The Catholic schools could band together, perhaps dissolve the league and forge out on their own, partnering maybe down the road with other like-minded, basketball-first institutions in the hopes of luring TV revenue.

That sounds a lot better than it likely will be, at least fiscally. If current reports are true that a new deal might net $60 to $80 million, that's an average payout to the non-FBS football schools of between $1.1 to 1.4 million a year. The Atlantic 10's television deal split with ESPN, NBC and CBS nets each school about $350,000.

[+] EnlargeVillanova/Georgetown
Getty ImagesThe 1985 Final Four included three Catholic schools from the Big East. What might become of those programs in the coming years?

That's a severe cut, and for financially strapped schools that lack FBS football revenue, every penny counts.

So it would be a calculated risk to bank -- literally and figuratively -- that the name-brand recognition of the likes of Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova will move the needle. Even if they partner with or gobble up (your point of view will determine the verb of choice) schools such as Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Butler or Creighton, is it still enough to convince television bigwigs to pay top dollar for its post-football programming?

Hard to calculate.

But here's the twist in all of that: As the Big East continues to bastardize its product, adding schools that offer FBS football teams, if not competitive ones, and basketball programs, if not traditional or successful ones, those schools are only hurting their name brands anyway.

At some point, as Georgetown has to make its way with wins against Central Florida and Tulane instead of Syracuse and Louisville, there's a danger that the university's appeal is annually devalued. There's a reason the idea of adding Tulane as a full conference member, along with several of its C-USA compatriots, sent shivers down the Catholic schools' collective spines.

They recognize that, as mom always said, you are the company that you keep.

This no longer is about preserving Gavitt's vision. As much as that sweet notion tugs at the heartstrings, it's irrelevant. His once-realized dream of a basketball powerhouse conference is simply not relevant in today's climate. Football rules the roost and everyone else is along for the ride.

This is about survival. The Big Six conferences are practically putting the graffiti on the wall. If Jim Delany and some of his rival commissioners have their way, some day we will be down to four superconferences and no need for the NCAA. Anarchy will rule, Armageddon will exist and Cinderella will have to figure out how to get back to the dance.

Before all of that happens, the Big East core has to do something. In a fight-or-flight college landscape, the seven Catholic schools too long have been running around like Chicken Little turned ostrich -- simultaneously panicking that the sky is falling but sticking their heads in the sand, hoping it will all go away.

It's not going away. It's going to get worse and the schools have to gather up whatever few chips they have left and go all-in.

They are the recognizable part of the Big East brand and that name still has some meaning in certain pockets of the world. It may even have some monetary value. But not if the Catholic schools sit idly by and allow their worth to be hitched to the wagons of Conference USA schools masquerading under a Big East marquee.

There are no guarantees here. This is like playing Powerball -- you might go in together and split millions or you might go in together and wind up with nothing but a worthless ticket.

But it's time that the Big East core stops acting as though it's just some little addendum to the league and lucky to still be invited into the secret club it actually formed.

It's time to stop swallowing the company line it has been fed -- that it can't survive without the Power of the Pigskin -- without exploring whether that is really true.

College athletics right now is like the Wild West, without rules or even civility. And yet the Big East Catholic schools have been acting like, well, Catholic schoolchildren -- polite to a fault, abiding by the rules, afraid of the teacher.

It's high time they remove the white gloves from their manicured hands and get into this dirty business.

Instead of listening to and accepting what everyone else says is in their best interest, the Big East -- the real Big East -- needs to figure that out for itself.

xubrew
12-11-2012, 11:46 AM
MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn offering BE bball schools 2.5 million per year for all hoops league

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Mike T contacted by St Johns about coming back to be commissioner for this new league as it starts up

If this is true, that is a low ball offer. That's actually a terrible offer. That's a lot less than what they'd get by staying together. If ESPN offered that, then they probably did it to discourage them from leaving. They're crazy if they accept that. They'd be better off seeking out another deal with another network.


If this is true, then our fate is sealed. 100% lock that the BE BBall schools would jump on this, and pull the obvious A10 schools into it. NO WAY would we pass that up.

And who cares on the auto bid. Good basketball is good basketball. You dont need the autobid if you field competitive teams (although they could maybe get a waiver of some sort due to the current mess)

The qualifications for auto bids have changed. You need seven teams that have been full div1 members for eight years. They won't lose their AQ status in basketball. They may for otehr sports, but not for basketball.

paulxu
12-11-2012, 12:18 PM
One thing stands out from all of that for me (aside from the spot-on Chicken Little comment), it seems that adding Temple to the BE kept the BB only schools from having the necessary votes to decide their own desitiny (keeping name, keeping NCAA tournament revenues, etc.).

If that is the case, then they deserve whatever happens to them. If you want the extra $ for having your soccer teams fly from Washington to Florida, New Orleans and San Deigo...then I hope you did the math.

I hope they can figure out a way to:
1 - Keep BE name (and NCAA credit $'s)
2 - Create a league where schools are similar in nature (size, culture, etc.)
3 - Add Xavier, St. Louis, Butler, Creighton and Richmond to get to 12 in 2 divisions

It would have been wise given the revenue discussion from holding events in gigantic arenas they can't fill to have invested, as Xavier did, in good on-campus arenas of around 10,000. I would think that with the alumni and corporate sponsorship that some of those schools should have, that it's not too late for those plans.

xubrew
12-11-2012, 12:32 PM
One thing stands out from all of that for me (aside from the spot-on Chicken Little comment), it seems that adding Temple to the BE kept the BB only schools from having the necessary votes to decide their own desitiny (keeping name, keeping NCAA tournament revenues, etc.).

If that is the case, then they deserve whatever happens to them. If you want the extra $ for having your soccer teams fly from Washington to Florida, New Orleans and San Deigo...then I hope you did the math.

I hope they can figure out a way to:
1 - Keep BE name (and NCAA credit $'s)
2 - Create a league where schools are similar in nature (size, culture, etc.)
3 - Add Xavier, St. Louis, Butler, Creighton and Richmond to get to 12 in 2 divisions

It would have been wise given the revenue discussion from holding events in gigantic arenas they can't fill to have invested, as Xavier did, in good on-campus arenas of around 10,000. I would think that with the alumni and corporate sponsorship that some of those schools should have, that it's not too late for those plans.

Yes.

I can't help but laugh at the situation with Temple.

First, they were affliate members for football, and it is my understanding that Nova did not want them to become full members.

Then, Nova was considering moving up to FBS football and joining the Big East, but Temple refused to share their stadium. Maybe it wasn't out of spite, but one can't help but think that it was.

Then Temple gets into the league as a full member anyway, and now Temple may keep the league from dissolving, which is probably what Nova would most prefer to happen.

....and people think the Shootout (or what used to be known as the Shootout) is intense.

I agree with you, though. They deserve what they get. They are part of a league that seems to care more about mediocre/bad football than they do about good basketball, and they've played a part in how this whole thing is shaking and will shake out.

DC Muskie
12-11-2012, 12:38 PM
Mike Jensen ‏@jensenoffcampus
Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.

This makes it interesting. If Temple has a vote, I don't think the basketball schools will have the majority needed to dissolve the "football" side of the conference or to kick out members. (At least, that is what people are saying on other realignment board.)

I like how Temple became a full voting member of the BE while still a member of the A-10 in basketball.

What else can the BE screw up?

OTRMUSKIE
12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=xubrew;372273]If this is true, that is a low ball offer. That's actually a terrible offer. That's a lot less than what they'd get by staying together. If ESPN offered that, then they probably did it to discourage them from leaving. They're crazy if they accept that. They'd be better off seeking out another deal

Well the Big East was offered around 1.4 million per team and now espn is saying they will give you 2.5 million per team if you join a basketball only conference. Did I miss something, how is that a low ball offer?

xubrew
12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
I like how Temple became a full voting member of the BE while still a member of the A-10 in basketball.

What else can the BE screw up?

I agree. That is absolutely golden.

I don't see the seven basketball schools leaving if they are unable to dissolve the league. In addition to walking away from NCAA credits and potentially more TV money, they're also going to be paying out the ass in exit fees.

The reason they won't be able to dissolve the league....is Temple. A team that is techincally a full voting member even though they're not playing a league schedule yet.

Brilliant. Simply brillant.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
The offer isn't $2.5 million per team, I don't think. It's $2.5 million.

coasterville95
12-11-2012, 12:48 PM
It's a chess game by the Big East. Why else make Tulane a member in all sports. They may not really like these filler schools they have been adding to keep enough football members, but try need to have enough football schools hold votes.

You watch, the second UConn is poached, not a half hour later we will find out they are adding Marshall.

xubrew
12-11-2012, 12:49 PM
The offer isn't $2.5 million per team, I don't think. It's $2.5 million.

Thank you for clarifying. I misunderstood.

That is a decent offer. It's less than what they've gotten in the past, but about what they would get if the league were to stay together in its new format.

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 12:51 PM
The offer isn't $2.5 million per team, I don't think. It's $2.5 million.

Oh, then I definitely misinterpreted that.

xubrew
12-11-2012, 12:51 PM
It's a chess game by the Big East. Why else make Tulane a member in all sports. They may not really like these filler schools they have been adding to keep enough football members, but try need to have enough football schools hold votes.

You watch, the second UConn is poached, not a half hour later we will find out they are adding Marshall.

They also want the New Orleans market when negotiating the TV deal. The fact that no one in New Orleans cares about Tulane should be a factor, but it's not. The networks don't seem to think about things like that. They'll just end up taking a bath in the ratings when no one in New Orleans is watching the SMU vs DePaul basketball game. Hell, no one in New Orleans will be watching Tulane's basketball and football games either.

FriarHoops
12-11-2012, 12:55 PM
If this is true, that is a low ball offer. That's actually a terrible offer. That's a lot less than what they'd get by staying together. If ESPN offered that, then they probably did it to discourage them from leaving. They're crazy if they accept that. They'd be better off seeking out another deal with another network.



The qualifications for auto bids have changed. You need seven teams that have been full div1 members for eight years. They won't lose their AQ status in basketball. They may for otehr sports, but not for basketball.


Except he's saying it would be 2.5 million PER SCHOOL. About 10x what the A-10 gets for their TV contract. For the record I think this guy just throws a ton of crap against the wall, I'd be shocked if that were the case (2.5 million per school).

He updated his Twitter saying 2.5 million per school for what it's worth (probably nothing).

xubrew
12-11-2012, 12:58 PM
Except he's saying it would be 2.5 million PER SCHOOL. About 10x what the A-10 gets for their TV contract. For the record I think this guy just throws a ton of crap against the wall, I'd be shocked if that were the case (2.5 million per school).

Yes, you are the third person to point out how I misunderstood that.

I'm used to hearing the lump sum when conferences and networks announce these deals, because not every conference splits the money evenly. Therefore, I thought $2.5 million was the lump sum. The networks don't really care how much each school gets. They just care how much they're paying the conference and figure it's the conference's issue how the go about splitting it. I thought it odd that htey would announce how much they would give each school. My mistake.

IF that's the offer that is on the table, it's not bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. Like you said, though, this guy could be just throwing crap at the wall.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
I was confusing the issue, but only because of 'brew's post. I blame 'brew. Damn you 'brew!

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 01:25 PM
I was confusing the issue, but only because of 'brew's post. I blame 'brew. Damn you 'brew!

It always comes back to Brew

chico
12-11-2012, 01:45 PM
I had a firm grasp on the first 92 pages of this thread until Brew's post. Now I am totally confused. Thanks, Brew.

The BE hoops schools are taking a very short sided view if they decide to stay with the football schools for the sake of the "Big East" name and the football money. You have to think a network who loses out on getting one of the big football conferences would look into getting what would become the premier hoops conference outside of the Big 4. You take a hit for a couple years then build the brand back up. It's not like your'e starting from scratch, either.

_LH
12-11-2012, 01:56 PM
Couldn't the bball 7 go to the football members and tell them they will vote to allow the exit fee to be changed to $0.00 so that UC, UCONN and others can actually leave the league and form a new league with whomever they choose? That would allow the bball 7 to keep the BE names and NCAA credits.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:13 PM
Couldn't the bball 7 go to the football members and tell them they will vote to allow the exit fee to be changed to $0.00 so that UC, UCONN and others can actually leave the league and form a new league with whomever they choose? That would allow the bball 7 to keep the BE names and NCAA credits.

These schools aren't staying because of a measly $10 mil exit fee, they're staying because they don't have an invite anywhere else.

_LH
12-11-2012, 02:18 PM
These schools aren't staying because of a measly $10 mil exit fee, they're staying because they don't have an invite anywhere else.

Then why is Rutgers suing over the $10 million? The exit fee would be hard for UC to swallow but I understand what you are saying. If UCONN and UC know the bball only schools will vote collectively to reduce it to $0.00 and that they won't be collecting anything from Louisville or Rutgers or any others that might soon leave, they could all simply leave together proactively and form their own conference.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:24 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

A-10 is interested in expanding.

Marquette fan here, really looking forward to playing with Xavier in a conference again. Just looking to have an objective discussion.

I can see why the A-10 would want to add the Catholic 7--bigger markets, bigger names, bigger dollars. Xavier vs. Georgetown will get more eyeballs than Xavier vs. St. Boneventure. Not to mention for the fans, it'd create a great basketball league.

But shouldn't the Big East be courting the A-10? Why would the "big brand names" like Georgetown, St. John's Villanova, and Marquette (quoted from Katz's video) and the other three schools be better off poaching the top of the A-10 and Creighton to form a top tier b-ball only conference? Just from a dollars standpoint, why would they want to share TV revenues with the likes of Duquesne and Fordham, much less have to play them each year? My opinion is it is to the advantage of the A-10 conference to float this offer out there so that the Big East schools so their best teams don't get poached. Smart move, but I don't see it working. I think there's too much market overlap. Georgetown and George Washington? Nova and La Salle? St John's and Fordham? Not going to happen.

I see the Catholic 7 banding with Xavier, Creighton, and a last team from the A-10 who makes the most financial sense.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:25 PM
Then why is Rutgers suing over the $10 million? The exit fee would be hard for UC to swallow but I understand what you are saying. If UCONN and UC know the bball only schools will vote collectively to reduce it to $0.00 and that they won't be collecting anything from Louisville or Rutgers or any others that might soon leave, they could all simply leave together proactively and form their own conference.

They're suing because the teams that left before them set a precedent with their court cases that you CAN and WILL get out of paying the full exit fee. And frankly, if you only have to pay $7 mil to get out, why not.

MHettel
12-11-2012, 02:26 PM
Simple answer. Just include Temple. They suck at football, and know their chances of landing in one of the "big 4" conferences is zero. they are going to have to settle in a second tier football conference.

If the ACC gets stripped by the SEC / B10 / B12, then Duke, Wake, Uconn, UC and UofL get left behind and presumably remain in the ACC which becomes a second tier football conference but would be really good in BBall. This would be ideal for both Memphis and Temple and would represent their best option. BUT then you have that dang sticking point with the buyout fees. You dont think Temple would stand in the way of the BBall only schools right now and expect that later they will get a waiver of their fees if they move to the ACC? And as a full voting member, I'm sure that they are subject to those fees even though they have never played a game....

So while the best case scenario for Temple is evident, they are currently burning the only bridge they have to get there.

So, have the BBall only schools invite Temple and tell them to find a place for their Football team. NOW, collectively they have the voting power to kick everyone else out and invite XU and others. This is still a VERY attractive option for Temple and doesnt have them face any fees for leaving the BE.

It's one thing to stay on the sidelines when the big-boys are battling it out, but at this point it is very clear that the currently constituted BE is doomed. The final landscape for football will either be 4 big conferences, or with the help of a miracle it could be 5. But the BE is behind the ACC here so its' time to act.

AND, if they are willing to include Temple, then why not Memphis? Add in just a few public schools to mix in with the privates.

16 teams: Gtown, SJU, Nova, SHU, Prov, Marq, DePaul, XU, Temple, Memphis, VCU, Richmond, UD, Creighton, Butler, SLU

Look at the Footprint. The northeast is covered down through Virgina, then west to St Louis and north to Omaha.

Every single one of these teams would be better off than what they are facing right now, or realistically what any of their alternatives might be.

This could be a very competitive basketball conference, right up there with any of the "big 4" and having 16 teams aligns perfectly with where these other conferences will end up...

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 02:28 PM
The Basketball 7 need to join the A-10. Otherwise we lose Fordham, LaSalle and Dookane. Can't have that!

Seriously, we have a competent commish, and yours have been clowns of late (Aresco may be okay, but he's new). Big East/A-10, whatever, let's just get McGlade in charge and move forward.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Holy Sh*t!

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

A-10 eyeing Big East schools, open to 21-team hoops league @ESPNAndyKatz reports http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source …

Won't happen. Why would basketball 7 want to dilute their revenues?

Muskie
12-11-2012, 02:35 PM
Holy Sh*t!

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

A-10 eyeing Big East schools, open to 21-team hoops league @ESPNAndyKatz reports http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source …

Mind officially BLOWN.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:37 PM
Remember this? Either way, the Big East won't go to the A-10.


DAYTON (OH) -- To Whom it May Concern, namely DePaul, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and Villanova:

I understand that you've been having a Maalox Moment or two, so I'd like to address some of your concerns to help explain your indigestion about the continuing implosion of the Big East Conference -- the home turf for all of your athletic programs. And when I say indigestion, I mean panic attacks about your potential irrelevance from the college basketball landscape. My purpose is not to allay your fears but rather substantiate them. As chaotic and desperate as you think they are, I believe there is sound evidence to suggest your fears don't go far enough. They are ever-present, but they are also victim to the sin of spin. Your depth perception is inside-out, and it's worth my time to provide an outside-in viewpoint to cast a proper light on the changing college landscape.

So here goes.

In a nutshell, you're screwed. Not blindfold-and-cigarette screwed, but short on options and shorter on time. You're Jack Dawson on the Titanic and Celine Dion is clearing her throat. The good news is there are lifeboats. The bad news is you came from steerage and those lifeboats aren't for you. In two hours the ship will founder and the best you can hope for is to use the body of a dead porter as an improvised flotation device until help arrives -- but it's no sure thing they'll find you floating among the debris, alive, worth saving.

In basketball parlance, the Big East is the Titanic, college football is the iceberg, and the A10 is the RMS Carpathia. When the Carpathia trawls the debris field for survivors, folks like yourself aren't in a position of strength to demand hot towels and a wine list. You might have been a passenger on the grandest ocean liner to ever set sail, but that was two hours ago. Nobody cares anymore and the royal crest you've been bear-hugging presently sleeps at the bottom of the north Atlantic. You're like everyone else now, but still cling to the Guggenheim attitude.

Glad we could be there to offer a rescue. Want to know more about our swashbuckling sloop? Consider the following.

The A10 holds all of the face cards and authors their own future. The private A10 schools are not going to retreat from the stability and security of the top basketball-only conference in the country and venture out into shark-infested waters where schools are cannibalizing their own league members, jockeying for position, and lobbying over one another into conferences that are completely unstable geographic nightmares of greed, self-absorption, and academic antagonism.

Do I foresee institutions leaving the dead calm of the A10 to form a new basketball-centric conference amid the unpredictable swells and whitecaps of present-day re-alignment? No way -- not unless its under the terms, conditions, and timetable of the departing A10 members. There is too much chaos and uncertainty to abandon a perfectly good ship and swim for the promise of an uncharted land mass.

Especially not after Butler and VCU were just added to the improving conference. It's hard to imagine Butler and VCU accepting invitations to the A10 without the darnedest assurances from Xavier, Dayton, and St. Louis that a bait-and-switch was not eminent.

The A10 is the safe haven at the moment. League members control their own fates and have a timetable based on a sun dial instead of a stopwatch. Members recognize as a stable league, their strength is in numbers.

The A10 is a league many institutions are intrigued to join -- not parachute out of. More schools want a boarding pass than vacant staterooms to fill. The climate is getting more and more advantageous to the A10 as FBS football implodes the college landscape. Even a traveling salesman understands market forces. The A10 office recognizes their position of strength at the bargaining table. The strength is not absolute, but the leverage is undeniable.

Bernadette McGlade knew this last year when she added the Bulldogs and Rams. Her hand is only that much stronger and strengthening by the hour. The A10 doesn't need the Big East basketball schools to survive. A nice addition? Certainly. A necessity? No. Big East basketball schools may ultimately reach a point however where their fate is determined by others only -- on the timetable of others and at the mercy of others.

None of this is to suggest Big East basketball members compare unfavorably to the brass hats of the A10. Marquette, Villanova, and Georgetown have reached Final Fours in recent years. St. John's is still St. John's. Comparing one Big East school to one A10 school is not the comparison that will re-map the landscape however. Power rests in the hands of those most capable of retreating to their existing ships and staying above the waterline. The A10 does not need a flotilla of supply ships to remain at sea for an extended period. She's stocked, cocked, and water-tight. More than that, all hands on deck believe in her.

The A10 schools have historically operated on a smaller budget than schools in the Big East. Maintaining the status quo is just another day at the office. Members are used to stretching a dollar. The A10 brass -- Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Butler, St. Joe, and VCU -- are not going to let dollar signs overcome them by some newfangled Big East Redux 2.0 unless it's more bulletproof than the Merrimack.

Why?

The A10 schools would be assuming 100% of the risk while the Big East schools would be taking on none of the risk. When you have nothing to lose, you can't. But A10 schools have everything to lose because they would be folding an already strong hand for a new deal of unknown cards. A10 schools are happy and content where they are if that's the worst case scenario. That's not the case with the basketball schools in the Big East. The problem with musical chairs is there's never a chair for everyone. Big East schools are killing each other to find a seat at the table -- any table.

You've worked hard to convince yourself that everything is the other way around and when Big East basketball schools say "jump", A10 schools shout "how high?", but its nothing more than a half-baked Baghdad Bob impersonation. Whatever happens will happen because the A10 schools chose it to happen. They hold the decisive veto.

Time is wasting and you've already wasted plenty of that. During the favorable weather when most skippers were tightening up their rigging and caulking their hulls, you only had time to count the checks. You were a grand ship but you're nothing but a memory now. Just a cold, rusty, maritime relic sitting alone with no passengers and no port-of-call.

The A10 might not be the ship of royalty, but she's our ship and certainly worth fighting for. You can denigrate her all you like, but she still floats. Rather than order our sailors and officers to command a new ship under your slanted and corrupted oversight, perhaps it will be us barking the orders and assigning the bunks, on our own trusty boat, warts and all, in a manner and timetable of our choosing.

If and when that happens, Celine will be in rare form. Big East basketball schools won't have a heart that goes on. It will have an ongoing heart attack.

_LH
12-11-2012, 02:40 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

A-10 is interested in expanding.

Marquette fan here, really looking forward to playing with Xavier in a conference again. Just looking to have an objective discussion.

I can see why the A-10 would want to add the Catholic 7--bigger markets, bigger names, bigger dollars. Xavier vs. Georgetown will get more eyeballs than Xavier vs. St. Boneventure. Not to mention for the fans, it'd create a great basketball league.

But shouldn't the Big East be courting the A-10? Why would the "big brand names" like Georgetown, St. John's Villanova, and Marquette (quoted from Katz's video) and the other three schools be better off poaching the top of the A-10 and Creighton to form a top tier b-ball only conference? Just from a dollars standpoint, why would they want to share TV revenues with the likes of Duquesne and Fordham, much less have to play them each year? My opinion is it is to the advantage of the A-10 conference to float this offer out there so that the Big East schools so their best teams don't get poached. Smart move, but I don't see it working. I think there's too much market overlap. Georgetown and George Washington? Nova and La Salle? St John's and Fordham? Not going to happen.

I see the Catholic 7 banding with Xavier, Creighton, and a last team from the A-10 who makes the most financial sense.

The A10 has been very good to XU. Just look at what XU has done since joining the A10 in 1995. Having said that, XU fans hate being in a league with Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne and St. B's. GW has not done much as of late either and if Georgetown is interested, the league does not need both programs.

If the bball only schools feel like they have to leave the league, I don't see why Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Marquette care what happens with Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul.

Why can't Georgetown, Nova, St. John's and Marquette get with Xavier, URI, UMASS, St. Louis and either Dayton and Butler to form a brand new conference? I at least hope those in power think about a variety of options.

I would be thrilled to be in a league with Georgetown and Marquette but I don't care about playing against Seton Hall and DePaul.

coasterville95
12-11-2012, 02:41 PM
That was one of the options - expanding the A10 to some unwieldy number.

21 team hoops leage eh? Why, pray tell, not 20 or 22?

That's one way to solve the problem, we have the A10's autobid, NCAA credits (hey, we earned most of those, right?), and relationship with ESPN.

So we let Temple jump aboard the Titanic next year, and let Charlotte enjoy their football program and C-USA. (At the rate the Big east is graspong for schools, they'll be on the Titanic soon enough) That gets us back down to 14 then we add the Big East Hoops 7, which gets us to 21 and my head hurts just thinking about conference game scheduling or a tournament with that many teams.

After the Big East Hoops 7 bolts the Big East, they really won't have much left. will they?

Take it for what its worth, but Coach Mack tweeted that he thinks today will be a Twitter heavy day, and that he is traveling.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 02:54 PM
The A10 has been very good to XU. Just look at what XU has done since joining the A10 in 1995. Having said that, XU fans hate being in a league with Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne and St. B's. GW has not done much as of late either and if Georgetown is interested, the league does not need both programs.

If the bball only schools feel like they have to leave the league, I don't see why Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Marquette care what happens with Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul.

Why can't Georgetown, Nova, St. John's and Marquette get with Xavier, URI, UMASS, St. Louis and either Dayton and Butler to form a brand new conference? I at least hope those in power think about a variety of options.

I would be thrilled to be in a league with Georgetown and Marquette but I don't care about playing against Seton Hall and DePaul.

$$$ potential. DePaul brings the Chicago market and some solid hoops tradition. Seton Hall brings NJ/NYC and more hoops tradition (albeit less). Two schools that have been "on the verge" of becoming a better program again, but haven't gotten there for about ten years.

I don't know who would object to having UMASS in the conference, but URI would be blocked by Providence. Market overlap, and Providence has way more hoops tradition and money.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 02:57 PM
The A10 has been very good to XU. Just look at what XU has done since joining the A10 in 1995. Having said that, XU fans hate being in a league with Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne and St. B's. GW has not done much as of late either and if Georgetown is interested, the league does not need both programs.

If the bball only schools feel like they have to leave the league, I don't see why Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and Marquette care what happens with Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul.

Why can't Georgetown, Nova, St. John's and Marquette get with Xavier, URI, UMASS, St. Louis and either Dayton and Butler to form a brand new conference? I at least hope those in power think about a variety of options.

I would be thrilled to be in a league with Georgetown and Marquette but I don't care about playing against Seton Hall and DePaul.

Can Fordham, Lasalle, St Bon, and the rest of the drudges be booted though? They should have been booted a long time ago. I imagine if they could, they would have been already

_LH
12-11-2012, 03:09 PM
Can Fordham, Lasalle, St Bon, and the rest of the drudges be booted though? They should have been booted a long time ago. I imagine if they could, they would have been already

I don't see how they can be voted out but it sure whould be nice.

_LH
12-11-2012, 03:11 PM
$$$ potential. DePaul brings the Chicago market and some solid hoops tradition. Seton Hall brings NJ/NYC and more hoops tradition (albeit less). Two schools that have been "on the verge" of becoming a better program again, but haven't gotten there for about ten years.

I don't know who would object to having UMASS in the conference, but URI would be blocked by Providence. Market overlap, and Providence has way more hoops tradition and money.

I don't think DePaul brings squat and certainly not the Chicago market. UMASS is a quality program. They would not need Seton Hall if they have St. John's. I would take URI over Providence.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 03:16 PM
I don't think DePaul brings squat and certainly not the Chicago market. UMASS is a quality program. They would not need Seton Hall if they have St. John's. I would take URI over Providence.

Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence already have decent or great arenas, brand names for recruiting, larger fanbases, more money already funneling into athletics, etc. Xavier and Creighton pump a lot of money into athletics, probably enough $$ to meet BE requirements. That's why they'll be taken over UMASS, URI, etc.

_LH
12-11-2012, 03:18 PM
Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence don't draw flies and offer nothing to a newly formed league. They will be in the league though because they already are not because they are better options than URI or UMASS.

coasterville95
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
Perhaps the term you are looking for is "Creative Discharge" - in other words convince the dregs that their interests are better served in another conference and have them willingly jumping ship.

A 21 team A-10 just gave me this sickening thought. Imagine if some genius for the idea to implement a 20 game conference schedule. Play each of the other 20 schools once. Sounds simple enough right? Well that only leaves 10 games, and that is only if 3 of them are part of an exempted tournament. Sure we play in those every year, but that still leaves just 7 normal OOC games, assuming you need at least 15 home games, that only leaves 2 holes for OOC away game scheduling, and as we have learned we can't normally buy a high profile team into Cintas, we need to do a home and home with them. Now if the Crosstown Classic remains a neutral site game for eternity (yet ANOTHER reason to hate that arangement), that's 1 of those two slots filled, which leaves only 1 slot every other year (10 year deal with Wake Forest). Not much opportunity to lure new contracts for our super aggresive game scheduling. May not leave us time in February for the late season high profile OOC game we have gotten accostumed to.

And before you say, that's easy, just cancel the Crosstown, remember that we would be on UC's case non stop for a decade if they tried something like that.

LA Muskie
12-11-2012, 03:21 PM
I agree. That is absolutely golden.

I don't see the seven basketball schools leaving if they are unable to dissolve the league. In addition to walking away from NCAA credits and potentially more TV money, they're also going to be paying out the ass in exit fees.

The reason they won't be able to dissolve the league....is Temple. A team that is techincally a full voting member even though they're not playing a league schedule yet.

Brilliant. Simply brillant.
Their exit fee is significantly less than the football schools. It has been reported at $5 million per school.

BandAid
12-11-2012, 03:21 PM
Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence already have decent or great arenas, brand names for recruiting, larger fanbases, more money already funneling into athletics, etc. Xavier and Creighton pump a lot of money into athletics, probably enough $$ to meet BE requirements. That's why they'll be taken over UMASS, URI, etc.

Friendly hint: Don't argue with _LH. You won't win. It's impossible.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 03:21 PM
Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence don't draw flies and offer nothing to a newly formed league. They will be in the league though because they already are not because they are better options than URI or UMASS.

I don't have data showing URI vs Providence or how much DePaul adds in terms of market appeal to a TV deal, but net everything out that I could argue and you have three schools (being DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall) that are simply more recognizable and have more hoops tradition than URI and UMASS.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 03:25 PM
I don't have data showing URI vs Providence or how much DePaul adds in terms of market appeal to a TV deal, but net everything out that I could argue and you have three schools (being DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall) that are simply more recognizable and have more hoops tradition than URI and UMASS.

Seriously, just stop. There's no point.

LA Muskie
12-11-2012, 03:27 PM
The BE 7 are staying together. Period. Any debate is useless, except perhaps for entertainment value.

Titanxman04
12-11-2012, 03:28 PM
Friendly hint: Don't argue with _LH. You won't win. It's impossible.

Not true. JimmyTwoTimes wins every time LH posts. I think it's written down somewhere...

"Every time LH posts, Jimmy has an orgasm." Haha

_LH
12-11-2012, 03:30 PM
I don't have data showing URI vs Providence or how much DePaul adds in terms of market appeal to a TV deal, but net everything out that I could argue and you have three schools (being DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall) that are simply more recognizable and have more hoops tradition than URI and UMASS.

DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall are not much without the BE name though. What they become in some new league is a mystery but they certainly have shown that they are currently part of the have nots even amoung the bball only schools. It is pointless to debate though as it appears the 7 bball only plan on sticking together, at least for now. If however, a brand new conference is formed, I think it would be better for the "haves' of the bball only BE and the "haves" of the A10 to leave behind the have nots from both conferences.

FriarHoops
12-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Seton Hall, DePaul and Providence don't draw flies and offer nothing to a newly formed league. They will be in the league though because they already are not because they are better options than URI or UMASS.

Providence is the second most followed college basketball program in New England behind UCONN (albeit New England isn't college hoops crazy). They play in a 13,000 seat arena that is essentially brand new (80 million dollar renovation). Spent 15 million on an athletic/training facility on campus a few years ago, and have plans to build a multi million dollar basketball practice facility.

Although PC has been down recently, they have had several seasons where they've averaged 10,000+ (all games not just Big East) and can get back there. In the short term, next years team will have as much or more talent as when they went to the elite 8 in 1997, they will get top 25 mentions preseason. We'll see if Ed Cooley can get them to mesh together.

URI is second in their own state. They play down state in the middle of nowhere in a nice but 7,500 seat arena they almost never fill. What's their high in attendance all time...5,500 - 6,000? Hurley's doing some nice things there but I don't see that one.

DePaul has Chicago and you can't pass on that. Someone has to right that ship but because of where they are DePaul has very good potential. NJ also has HUGE talent year in and year out and Seton Hall has tie in to a pro arena. Obviously, these schools need to improve but you have to look at long term potential as well.

_LH
12-11-2012, 03:44 PM
Providence is the second most followed college basketball program in New England behind UCONN (albeit New England isn't college hoops crazy). They play in a 13,000 seat arena that is essentially brand new (80 million dollar renovation). Spent 15 million on an athletic/training facility on campus a few years ago, and have plans to build a multi million dollar basketball practice facility.

Although PC has been down recently, they have had several seasons where they've averaged 10,000+ (all games not just Big East) and can get back there. In the short term, next years team will have as much or more talent as when they went to the elite 8 in 1997, they will get top 25 mentions preseason. We'll see if Ed Cooley can get them to mesh together.

URI is second in their own state. They play down state in the middle of nowhere in a nice but 7,500 seat arena they almost never fill. What's their high in attendance all time...5,500 - 6,000? Hurley's doing some nice things there but I don't see that one.

DePaul has Chicago and you can't pass on that. Someone has to right that ship but because of where they are DePaul has very good potential. NJ also has HUGE talent year in and year out and Seton Hall has tie in to a pro arena. Obviously, these schools need to improve but you have to look at long term potential as well.

I can and will pass on DePaul because no one in Chicago cares. You make a strong argument for Providence over URI but I wonder how many visiting fans help inflate those numbers. Either way, I'm sure if a brand new league were to form that the 7 bball schools will stick together even if they shouldn't.

Titanxman04
12-11-2012, 03:46 PM
While I certainly think its a long shot at best that the BE7 would join with the A10, it would be worth mentioning that the conference tournament is in the Barclays Center. By all account, a beautiful building and obviously still in NYC. It doesn't have the majesty of Madison Square Garden, of course...but in 20 years, who's to say it won't? I think it certainly could be worth noting that the Be7 wouldn't be losing their New York spotlight during conference tournament time.

Again, I still believe that they will break away from the football schools and pull the some A10 schools away, as opposed to joint the A10 themselves.

DC Muskie
12-11-2012, 03:52 PM
MSG is going to drop the BE as soon as it can and put itself in the ACC mix.

Especially with all of the conference realignment, the ACC would be stupid not to try and get MSG every other year.

Titanxman04
12-11-2012, 03:53 PM
MSG is going to drop the BE as soon as it can and put itself in the ACC mix.

Especially with all of the conference realignment, the ACC would be stupid not to try and get MSG every other year.

Well then, may heaps that increases the A10's chances to land these schools?

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 03:58 PM
Ugh no thank you to a 21 team league.

Frankly, why would the Big East Catholics want that? It would totally dilute any TV money coming the league's way.

BBC 08
12-11-2012, 03:59 PM
Getting a deal with the Barclay's Center is looking more and more genius by the day.

apoclater
12-11-2012, 04:01 PM
I can and will pass on DePaul because no one in Chicago cares. You make a strong argument for Providence over URI but I wonder how many visiting fans help inflate those numbers. Either way, I'm sure if a brand new league were to form that the 7 bball schools will stick together even if they shouldn't.

But if the new Big East can get a big network deal that makes cable MSO's pay them for the Chicago market--you bet DePaul will be the #2 most important team in the league as far as market after St. John's. This is why Rutgers got picked to go to the B1G.

DC Muskie
12-11-2012, 04:02 PM
Getting a deal with the Barclay's Center is looking more and more genius by the day.

No doubt.

FriarHoops
12-11-2012, 04:03 PM
I can and will pass on DePaul because no one in Chicago cares. You make a strong argument for Providence over URI but I wonder how many visiting fans help inflate those numbers. Either way, I'm sure if a brand new league were to form that the 7 bball schools will stick together even if they shouldn't.

It's always going to depend on who you play with attendance to some extent (I was referencing non league and Big East game though). But the following for PC has always been pretty strong as they were playing in a 13,000 seat arena and attracting good crowds before the Big East even existed (early and mid 70's).

I don't know DePaul that well. But I know there is a basketball history and basketball culture there and throughout Chicago. Compare that to UMASS, which is an extension of the apathetic Boston market (fails to pay attention to college sports at all). They (DePaul) play pretty far off campus I believe (which is changing) and have been mediocre for a long time...yet still got almost 8,000 a game last year (all games). While DePaul doesn't dominate the Chicago sports scene obviously, it's a big school with a lot of alumni that care (I would bet)...I certainly remember when DePaul was an absolute power. Like any program, they need the right coach there, but Chicago is huge and puts out huge talent.

Anyway, I think you're right, I think the basketball only seven stay together.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 04:03 PM
McGlade is the ma'am!

blueblob06
12-11-2012, 04:06 PM
BOO to a 21-team league. How about we make a simple rule to decide who the new league should have? Of the 21 teams in question, rank them by the number of Sweet 16s each has had in the last 16 years. The top 16 make the cut.

Naturally the new-found conference would be named the Super 16 (since the NCAA wouldn't like a conference to be named of "The Sweet 16").

Have 16 of those 21 each even made a Sweet 16 you ask? If memory serves (and I had to look up a few), these 13 did:
XU St Joe's Butler VCU UMass RI Rich
Marq Villanova Gtwn Prov St. John's SH
(Hope I didn't leave anyone out). So, that's 13, and out of pity we'll invite Depaul, SLU, and Dayton to complete the Super 16. Easy as that. Let's get this deal done. (Sorry Duq/GW/LaSalle/Ford/SB) Added Bonus - Depaul vs Dayton becomes an annual rivalry battle for the basement!

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Depaul vs Dayton

My eyes are still bleeding from that "NCAA Tournament" game they played against each other. They cannot be in the same league. CAN NOT!

xubrew
12-11-2012, 04:20 PM
Perhaps the term you are looking for is "Creative Discharge" - in other words convince the dregs that their interests are better served in another conference and have them willingly jumping ship.

A 21 team A-10 just gave me this sickening thought. Imagine if some genius for the idea to implement a 20 game conference schedule. Play each of the other 20 schools once. Sounds simple enough right? Well that only leaves 10 games, and that is only if 3 of them are part of an exempted tournament. Sure we play in those every year, but that still leaves just 7 normal OOC games, assuming you need at least 15 home games, that only leaves 2 holes for OOC away game scheduling, and as we have learned we can't normally buy a high profile team into Cintas, we need to do a home and home with them. Now if the Crosstown Classic remains a neutral site game for eternity (yet ANOTHER reason to hate that arangement), that's 1 of those two slots filled, which leaves only 1 slot every other year (10 year deal with Wake Forest). Not much opportunity to lure new contracts for our super aggresive game scheduling. May not leave us time in February for the late season high profile OOC game we have gotten accostumed to.

And before you say, that's easy, just cancel the Crosstown, remember that we would be on UC's case non stop for a decade if they tried something like that.

How about this....

Go out to 24 teams and form three leagues of eight, and have an affiliation amongst all three leagues. Each team could play the other seven teams in their conference in a home-and-home, plus two crossover games, one with each league. Similar to the Bracket Buster concept, the crossover games could be named after the season begins. That way, you could come up with the most ideal RPI/Selection Committee boosters. Whoever the home team is could return the game the following year.

That's 18 fixture games, 14 conference games, 2 crossover games, and 2 return games from the previous year's crossover games.

As far as media rights, call it three conferences that are in affiliation and negotiate the biggest deal you can for the three leagues.

Each conference of eight would retain its automatic qualifier status, so we'd be 24 teams sharing three automatic qualifiers rather than 21 teams sharing one. I think there would be more room for a hgiher percentage of teams to make the NCAA Tournament, it would allow for geographic and traditional rivalries to be preserved, and since we call it an affiliation, we should be able to get a good TV deal for all 24 teams.

BMoreX
12-11-2012, 04:21 PM
BTW, how in the hell did Tulane get voted in the Big East? They're irrelevant in both football and basketball. They would have needed a majority vote from the full voting members (UC, USF, UConn, Temple, 7 BB-onlies).

The BB-onlies said they were very upset that Tulane was added.

HUH!?

xavierj
12-11-2012, 04:37 PM
BTW, how in the hell did Tulane get voted in the Big East? They're irrelevant in both football and basketball. They would have needed a majority vote from the full voting members (UC, USF, UConn, Temple, 7 BB-onlies).

The BB-onlies said they were very upset that Tulane was added.

HUH!?

Simple. UC stuffed the ballot. More easy wins. Like playing Maryland Eastern Shore in conference play. Cincy fans and media eat up wins no matter who you play. Easier to tell the friends in their pockets how great they are.

paulxu
12-11-2012, 04:46 PM
How about this....

Go out to 24 teams and form three leagues of eight, and have an affiliation amongst all three leagues. Each team could play the other seven teams in their conference in a home-and-home, plus two crossover games, one with each league. Similar to the Bracket Buster concept, the crossover games could be named after the season begins. That way, you could come up with the most ideal RPI/Selection Committee boosters. Whoever the home team is could return the game the following year.

That's 18 fixture games, 14 conference games, 2 crossover games, and 2 return games from the previous year's crossover games.

As far as media rights, call it three conferences that are in affiliation and negotiate the biggest deal you can for the three leagues.

Each conference of eight would retain its automatic qualifier status, so we'd be 24 teams sharing three automatic qualifiers rather than 21 teams sharing one. I think there would be more room for a hgiher percentage of teams to make the NCAA Tournament, it would allow for geographic and traditional rivalries to be preserved, and since we call it an affiliation, we should be able to get a good TV deal for all 24 teams.

Well, how about this. 320 some odd teams, about 32 conferences, each gets an automatic qualifier status, they play have traditional rivalries, play out of conference stuff...and have a 64 team championship at the end of the year? Want to make it 68? OK.

FIGHTING MUSKETEER
12-11-2012, 04:55 PM
BTW, how in the hell did Tulane get voted in the Big East? They're irrelevant in both football and basketball. They would have needed a majority vote from the full voting members (UC, USF, UConn, Temple, 7 BB-onlies).

The BB-onlies said they were very upset that Tulane was added.

HUH!?

Mardi Gras

xubrew
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
Well, how about this. 320 some odd teams, about 32 conferences, each gets an automatic qualifier status, they play have traditional rivalries, play out of conference stuff...and have a 64 team championship at the end of the year? Want to make it 68? OK.

I like it!!!!

apoclater
12-11-2012, 05:08 PM
How about this....

Go out to 24 teams and form three leagues of eight, and have an affiliation amongst all three leagues. Each team could play the other seven teams in their conference in a home-and-home, plus two crossover games, one with each league. Similar to the Bracket Buster concept, the crossover games could be named after the season begins. That way, you could come up with the most ideal RPI/Selection Committee boosters. Whoever the home team is could return the game the following year.

That's 18 fixture games, 14 conference games, 2 crossover games, and 2 return games from the previous year's crossover games.

As far as media rights, call it three conferences that are in affiliation and negotiate the biggest deal you can for the three leagues.

Each conference of eight would retain its automatic qualifier status, so we'd be 24 teams sharing three automatic qualifiers rather than 21 teams sharing one. I think there would be more room for a hgiher percentage of teams to make the NCAA Tournament, it would allow for geographic and traditional rivalries to be preserved, and since we call it an affiliation, we should be able to get a good TV deal for all 24 teams.

Unless it brings in additional incremental revenue per team, it's not even worth the bother of speculating.

xubrew
12-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Unless it brings in additional incremental revenue per team, it's not even worth the bother of speculating.

Nothing like that is likely to happen. It was more of an ideal than anything that I thought would be a potential reality.

Aughnanure
12-11-2012, 05:44 PM
Basketball schools don't get to vote on football decisions, and there's an additional bylaw where they could've circumvented to add Tulane for all sports for "extraordinary circumstances." They don't define what that is though.

Aughnanure
12-11-2012, 05:45 PM
Nobody is kicking DePaul out. They're the largest Catholic school in the nation in the 2nd biggest TV market and Marquette's main ally.

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-11-2012, 06:13 PM
Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe
Spoke briefly with XU AD Mike Bobinski about reports of Big East basketball schools considering leaving and joining A10.


Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe
Bobinski on 21-team league: "That's a big number. Can't even put my head around that." Challenges of splitting revenue and scheduling.

Joe Danneman ‏@FOX19Joe
Bobinski says the A10 is always open to adding value and strength, but says there are no active targets at this time.

Mark Miller ‏@WisBBYearbook
If the 7 Big East Catholic schools break off, invites to Butler, Creighton, Dayton, St. Louis and Xavier would form a great 12-team league.

Adam Finkelstein ‏@FinkelsteinNERR
I've been saying A10 might ultimately be better basketball league than Big East; now they might just take it over.



From the Georgetown board via the marquette board http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34772.100....


"From a reliable source (hopefully more reliable than the Nerlens source ): The catholic schools are seriously considering splitting. While maintaining the Big East brand as their own. In addition, they would like to add St Louis, Xavier, Dayton, Butler and VCU. But the kicker I found interesting was that they believe they can also add Cinci, Uconn, Temple, and Memphis, rendering the current Big East football members to a football only conference which many believe would be better anyway. Ultimately the New Big East would have 16 members in all sports (minus football of course). They would keep MSG for conference tourney. Would have markets in NY, Chicago, DC, Philly, among others. And would be a competitive top 5 basketball conference that also allows for other sports to keep a more regional schedule. In addition, ESPN has hinted that they would be willing to pay somewhere in the range of 20-25 million for this arrangement, which would be similar to any deal that they would get by remaining in the current set up. Found it all interesting. Thought Id share...."

coasterville95
12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Of course Mike is going to say there are no active targets. Even if he was on his way to a press conference to announce all this.

But I do take comfort in his initial reaction to a 21 team conference. Sure there is probably more than a little interest in both the Big East 7 and the top shelf A10 teams, but until someone can package this in such a manner that no one is harmed, the chess game plays on.

xudash
12-11-2012, 10:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

A-10 is interested in expanding.

Marquette fan here, really looking forward to playing with Xavier in a conference again. Just looking to have an objective discussion.

I can see why the A-10 would want to add the Catholic 7--bigger markets, bigger names, bigger dollars. Xavier vs. Georgetown will get more eyeballs than Xavier vs. St. Boneventure. Not to mention for the fans, it'd create a great basketball league.

But shouldn't the Big East be courting the A-10? Why would the "big brand names" like Georgetown, St. John's Villanova, and Marquette (quoted from Katz's video) and the other three schools be better off poaching the top of the A-10 and Creighton to form a top tier b-ball only conference? Just from a dollars standpoint, why would they want to share TV revenues with the likes of Duquesne and Fordham, much less have to play them each year? My opinion is it is to the advantage of the A-10 conference to float this offer out there so that the Big East schools so their best teams don't get poached. Smart move, but I don't see it working. I think there's too much market overlap. Georgetown and George Washington? Nova and La Salle? St John's and Fordham? Not going to happen.

I see the Catholic 7 banding with Xavier, Creighton, and a last team from the A-10 who makes the most financial sense.

My friend, you are preaching to the (Jesuit) choir.

The sooner Xavier can detach from the likes of LaSalle and become a conference mate of the likes of Marquette, the better.

paulxu
12-11-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't care particularly one way or the other, but why add Dayton and not Creighton for more market coverage if you go to 12 BE teams.
And add Richmond, not VCU. VCU might be better basketball (trending that way) but Richmond fits the profile of the other schools much more.

The other part, about adding Temple, Memphis, UC and UConn for all sport except basketball would be pure schadenefreude.

Aughnanure
12-11-2012, 11:22 PM
I don't care particularly one way or the other, but why add Dayton and not Creighton for more market coverage if you go to 12 BE teams.
And add Richmond, not VCU. VCU might be better basketball (trending that way) but Richmond fits the profile of the other schools much more.

The other part, about adding Temple, Memphis, UC and UConn for all sport except basketball would be pure schadenefreude.

Marquette fan here, and I agree. I would say the same thing about Creighton over Dayton. But if we go past 12 I would like VCU, Dayton, and Wichita St. But St. Joe's and George Mason shouldn't be mentioned - the only duplication of a market will be Cincy-Dayton or Richmond.

Aughnanure
12-11-2012, 11:25 PM
My friend, you are preaching to the (Jesuit) choir.

The sooner Xavier can detach from the likes of LaSalle and become a conference mate of the likes of Marquette, the better.

You guys are the best match with the C7 than anyone. Should've been added immediately after ND left.

GoMuskies
12-11-2012, 11:45 PM
I'd hate to lose St. Joe's. Love to pick up Wichita State, though!

paulxu
12-12-2012, 07:58 AM
If the BE BB schools are currently making around $1.6 million a year from the football contract, and ESPN has offered around $2.5 million per school if they break off and form their own league (keeping BE name and MSG) and adding some A10 teams....what are they waiting for?

Is it lack of votes? Do I have the numbers all screwed up? This is damn confusing.

BMoreX
12-12-2012, 09:36 AM
If the BE BB schools are currently making around $1.6 million a year from the football contract, and ESPN has offered around $2.5 million per school if they break off and form their own league (keeping BE name and MSG) and adding some A10 teams....what are they waiting for?

Is it lack of votes? Do I have the numbers all screwed up? This is damn confusing.

Well, that number was tweeted by mhver3, and let's just say that he is not exactly the most trustworthy guy on twitter. throws a lot of shit on the wall and hopes some sticks.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 09:48 AM
GONZAGA wants in the Big East


While the Big East's seven non-FBS basketball schools are deciding what course of action to take next, there is one school that would love to be a part of any new conference or conglomerate: Gonzaga. Sources say the Zags would love to part with the West Coast Conference and be a member of a national, branded basketball conference. The theory is that if Boise State and San Diego State can be in the Big East for football, then why couldn’t Gonzaga in a basketball version? Of course, the easy response is that football is played once a week and there is usually a maximum of four or five league road games. Still, the Zags are looking out for themselves and would like to be positioned with fellow national Catholic-based schools instead of regional ones in the WCC. Gonzaga might not have a choice, but is starting to be a bit more proactive if an opportunity arises.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

Titanxman04
12-12-2012, 09:55 AM
GONZAGA wants in the Big East



http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

No. Double no. Gonzaga would be a good game and a worthwhile series... But no. That would be utterly stupid to have a team so far out there. Those "generic mascot nicknames" have to find their own basketball centric conference!

STL_XUfan
12-12-2012, 10:53 AM
Question about the A10 tv deal: I keep hearing the number 350k floated around for why the big east schools would be dumb to join the A10. However it was my understanding that the A10 tv deal isn't as encompassing As the big east's, and schools have more freedom to negotiate their own tv deals (ex. Xavier's fsn Ohio deal). Is the the 1.5 million big east deal and the 350 A10 deal really comparing apples to apples? (This is not rhetorical, I really don't know)

BMoreX
12-12-2012, 12:44 PM
GONZAGA wants in the Big East



http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

It sounds more like Gonzaga wants in on the "future Big East" with the 7 Catholics.

Question: Could a team be a "basketball-only" member in a conference? Obviously there are a ton of "football-only" members in the Big East. Could Gonzaga possibly be a basketball only member of a new conference and plop its Olympic sports in a West Coast-centric conference?

I might be interested in that. It might make it profitable for TV, because a network could air that conference's games for a lot of hours (covering 3 time zones).

Muskie
12-12-2012, 12:46 PM
It sounds more like Gonzaga wants in on the "future Big East" with the 7 Catholics.

Question: Could a team be a "basketball-only" member in a conference? Obviously there are a ton of "football-only" members in the Big East. Could Gonzaga possibly be a basketball only member of a new conference and plop its Olympic sports in a West Coast-centric conference?

I might be interested in that. It might make it profitable for TV, because a network could air that conference's games for a lot of hours (covering 3 time zones).

I suppose they could be if the Conference agreed. Otherwise I don't see them as feasible.

BMoreX
12-12-2012, 01:09 PM
I suppose they could be if the Conference agreed. Otherwise I don't see them as feasible.

It's just so crazy that it might just work. Just for ease, let's call it the Big America Conference.

East: Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's
Mid-West: DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, St. Louis
West: Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's, Loyola Marymount, San Diego

Each team would play their division-mates twice and everyone else once (alternating every year home and away) for an 18 game conference schedule.

The East and Midwest divisions would be full members of the Big America conference and play all sports there. The West division would be basketball-only members of this conference. They then would form an Olympic-sports conference for private schools on the west coast by adding a few more California schools.

Muskie
12-12-2012, 01:13 PM
it's still an expensive set of games unless the West Coast trip could be over a couple of days?

BMoreX
12-12-2012, 01:19 PM
it's still an expensive set of games unless the West Coast trip could be over a couple of days?

I mean, is it? Let's be honest, I'm not genius in how college athletics finances are. But I do know Xavier takes flights to a large majority of their away games. Is 2-3 more per year a big budget constraint?

xubrew
12-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Someone just pointed out to me that between the 88-89 and 26-27 season, the basketball only schools made a grand total of one Elite Eight. That's interesting. An entire generation with just one Elite Eight.

I know Georgetown and Nova have both been to Final fours since then, and I know those schools perhaps beat the Atlantic Ten when it comes to perception, but when it comes to actual basketball accomplishments, who's got the upper hand??

Since 2004, Xavier has been to two Elite Eights, Sain Joe's has been to one, VCU has been to a Final Four, and Butler has made two national title appearances. I haven't counted the Sweet Sixteens, but Xavier has been there numerous times.

So, strictly speaking in basketball terms (not money, not markets, but strictly basketball), do these schools add anything that we don't already have with the current lineup??

JimmyTwoTimes37
12-12-2012, 01:32 PM
It's just so crazy that it might just work. Just for ease, let's call it the Big America Conference.

East: Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's
Mid-West: DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, St. Louis
West: Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's, Loyola Marymount, San Diego

Each team would play their division-mates twice and everyone else once (alternating every year home and away) for an 18 game conference schedule.

The East and Midwest divisions would be full members of the Big America conference and play all sports there. The West division would be basketball-only members of this conference. They then would form an Olympic-sports conference for private schools on the west coast by adding a few more California schools.

I like this idea. Obviously the teams would have to be thoroughly analyzed and You could even add a south division with VCU, Richmond, Davidson, and some others(maybe a george mason). If a south region is added, you play everyone in your region twice thenYour opponents from other regions are decided by the previous year's record of both teams

Top 3 teams from each region go to MSG for the conference tourney(12).