Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[xlax]

Big East is in trouble. Their football is mediocre and it always will be. Basketball might not be enough to keep it together. If they lose Louisville, all of the dominos are going to start falling.

I would not be shocked to see the BEAST sign a TV deal very similar to what the ACC got from ESPN.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I would not be shocked to see the BEAST sign a TV deal very similar to what the ACC got from ESPN.

I just don't see the deal being with ESPN. Their new Commissioner is a former CBS exec for two decades. If they do not resign with ESPN, which is very plausible, I just don't see ESPN taking the news lightly. They've already been behind the scenes with WV, ND Bball, Syracuse, and Pitt. Now the word is they are actively talking to the Big 12, ACC, and SEC about expansion while talking Louisville, Rutgers, USF, and others about leaving the BE.

Waggy is absolutely right about the Bball schools. They won't go anywhere unless absolutely forced to. The money they make from the football teams is too much to leave.

[xlax]

I just don't see the deal being with ESPN. Their new Commissioner is a former CBS exec for two decades. If they do not resign with ESPN, which is very plausible, I just don't see ESPN taking the news lightly. They've already been behind the scenes with WV, ND Bball, Syracuse, and Pitt. Now the word is they are actively talking to the Big 12, ACC, and SEC about expansion while talking Louisville, Rutgers, USF, and others about leaving the BE.

Waggy is absolutely right about the Bball schools. They won't go anywhere unless absolutely forced to. The money they make from the football teams is too much to leave.

couple things.

first, you're right that ESPN helped facilitate some of those moves, but there were other forces in play on some of them, specifically Pitt and Cuse. If ESPn wanted to weaken the BEAST, why push two of the worst football teams from that conference to leave? That move was all bball related and it had a lot to do with some of the old hairs (i.e. Coach K) not being happy the beast was getting a lot of the attention for basketball.

As for the rumors this mountie fan is posting i wouldnt trust anything he says. I've followed the realignment fairly closely and he's been famous for being wrong and from time to time flat out making stuff up just to rock the boat.

You're right that the deal likely wont be exclusive with ESPN, but i could see a split rights deal wioth ESPN and another network. You're crazy if you don't think ESPN wants the rights to BEAST bball and their tourney in MSG every year.

The biggest reason the BEAST will do well is supply and demand. With NBC sports and Fox looking for live sports programming they should be able to create a bidding war. I turned on NBC Sports a few saturdays ago and they were showing fishing.

You also hit the nail on the head about the bball schools. All you have to do is look at how weak the A10 TV deal was to realize the BEAST bball schools are going nowhere.

[Masterofreality]

So, anybody notice that as a result of the new BCS playoff discussions yesterday, in which the new playoff format will begin in 2014, that the Big Least is now considered to be a "lesser conference"- lumped in with the MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt and Mountain West? There will be one...that's One spot from the group of the five lesser conferences guaranteed to be in the BCS playoff format. There will be 11 other spots from the major leagues, including the ACC.

I'll bet Boise is really liking their move now. Nothng like increasing your travel budget giganticaly, while losing your area rivalries and not improving your situation.

Finally, I'm sure the networks are going to fall all over themselves to televise the Big Greased now that it is MAC level, although in reality, it's been MAC level in quality for a while. The eastern hype machine led by ESPN propped it up.

With this, I predict Louisville and Rutgers will be stomping to jump the BE ship ASAP. Goodbye and good riddance, you league of charlatans.

[DC Muskie]

The MAC actually plays pretty good football.

[GoMuskies]

Big East "hopes" to get $15-$17 million per year, per team in new television deal. Not sure if it's a realistic hope or not, but it's a homerun for the new commish if he pulls it off.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=3501

[xudash]

Big East "hopes" to get $15-$17 million per year, per team in new television deal. Not sure if it's a realistic hope or not, but it's a homerun for the new commish if he pulls it off.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=3501

The BE is about to be lumped in with the unwashed masses for the next configuration of moneyball and we're supposed to believe they'll get $15-$17 million per! Sure, that's going to happen. BTW, not shooting at you GM, just what you shared as the report on this.

So, humor me with this approach to guessing how this may end up. Let's look at C-USA's deal for a moment, assuming you accept that the BE, for television appeal purposes, is closer to C-USA than it is to the ACC. Following is an excerpt from an article about that conference, as well as the link to the article:

Now, of course, what it all boils down to is money. Member jjimenez3272 posed the question in The State of the Conference Realignment Address post yesterday as to how much money C-USA schools actually make from their TV deals. After a little research, and if my numbers are correct, I found out that the figure is somewhere in the $1.5M range, per school, annually.

That comes from two TV deals that Conference USA has with both FOX Sports and CBS Sports. Each contract is worth about $40M+ over the next five years. While the TV networks probably aren't thrilled about C-USA losing some of its best members, they should be fairly optimistic with the additions that were made.

http://www.minerrush.com/2012/5/18/3027484/conference-usa-a-little-stronger-with-old-dominion

So, similarities?

Multiple TV deals, for one. Replacements perceived to be adequate, whatever that may mean, for another.

Now for a quick peak at the MWC - excerpt from an article and the link to it as well:

The conference did consider a monster alignment with Conference USA, but the lack of television dollars for the 24-team, five-time zone arrangement led the leagues to shelve those discussions.

The television dollars won’t be there for the Mountain West alone, either. Its current deal pays the Mountain West $8 million per season after losing roughly $4 million per year with the shuttering of The Mtn. — the first network dedicated to a single athletic conference. That paltry number wasn’t enough to satisfy Boise State, which is hoping to get $8 million per season when the Big East signs its television contract this fall.

Will it be enough to keep the league’s remaining members happy and competitive? Truth is the remaining members don’t have many options. Or any.

“I don’t feel any threat. I don’t have any concern. There is a strong commitment from these 10 institutions,” Thompson said, referencing the 2013 membership.

So rather than expand recklessly or chase big markets and potential television dollars, the Mountain West is forging ahead by going back in time. Back to the WAC. Back to a time when conferences were a grouping of like-minded universities with geographic interests. It may not be sexy. Or particularly inventive.

But it just might work.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/07/26/2202626/mountain-west-is-going-back-to.html

The first thing that grabs me? Boise's expectation: $8 million per season via the BE deal(s). The MWC may not be worth consideration in all this, given the relative lack of flat panels in its footprint, as well as its condensed number, but good for them, going back to what was once reality and normal.

So, C-USA is all over the place, has a huge number of members, certainly does not have the cache of the BE, notwithstanding all these problems, but will soon become a peer of it.

I wonder how many television sets exist between them; I wonder how many potential viewers there are for the BE versus C-USA. Otherwise, with the BE's pending subordination in big boy football, is the BE worth 5.3 times more than C-USA, assuming the real target is Boise's expectation of $8mm?

Beyond that, realignment is thought to not be over even after this recent wave of stuff settles down. As soon as UL receives a phone call, or perhaps Rutgers, the BE will take on more water. It will be pushed once and for all into becoming Thing One to C-USA's Thing Two.

On that note, let it be noted, for groveling rep purposes, that I just weaved a Dr. Seuss reference into a college football realignment thread. I think I might become rather proud of that.

[xudash]

And now a quick argument against my last post: basketball.

What do you know, the BE's ultimate television deal will most likely receive a juicing because of its basketball component, notwithstanding the 'cuse and Pitt losses. Even so, basketball isn't driving the train here, as we all know. It may make for a better deal than what C-USA has driven, but it isn't going to make up ground to the tune of $15 million per football school.

Where else might I be wrong? The hardcore demand for content, as has been mentioned already. Crappy football versus trout fishing.

[Masterofreality]

Big East "hopes" to get $15-$17 million per year, per team in new television deal. Not sure if it's a realistic hope or not, but it's a homerun for the new commish if he pulls it off.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=3501

Good luck with that. Read some of the comments.

[paulxu]

One fish, two fish....

[GoMuskies]

Some of you guys clearly have not considered the possibility that Aresco has photos of NBC executives in compromising situations.

I can't take anyone who compares the Big East to the MAC or C-USA seriously anyway.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

"A move to the ACC could bring all Penn Staters together"
http://blog.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2012/11/a_move_to_the_acc_could_bring.html

-------

Message boards on fire with "Maryland to the Big 10" rumors:

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/football/2012/11/maryland-to-the-big
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=17&f=2759&t=10477168
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1408&t=10482886
http://floridastate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1079&tid=159821538&mid=159821538&sid=1061&style=2
http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Board/120/Maryland-to-the-big-10-13975354/1v
http://maryland.247sports.com/Board/67/-Big-10Maryland-Update--14021300/7#a14024879

and about 100 other sites

[xu95]

I don't remember where I read it, but the Big East is now grouped in with CUSA, MWC, MAC, and Sun Belt in trying to get one spot at the table and they only get it if their highest ranked team is higher ranked than the highest ranked team in one of the other four conferences.

Good luck getting 15M a team. They should be trying for $15 a team.

[Masterofreality]

So, anybody notice that as a result of the new BCS playoff discussions yesterday, in which the new playoff format will begin in 2014, that the Big Least is now considered to be a "lesser conference"- lumped in with the MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt and Mountain West? There will be one...that's One spot from the group of the five lesser conferences guaranteed to be in the BCS playoff format. There will be 11 other spots from the major leagues, including the ACC.

I'll bet Boise is really liking their move now. Nothng like increasing your travel budget giganticaly, while losing your area rivalries and not improving your situation.

Finally, I'm sure the networks are going to fall all over themselves to televise the Big Greased now that it is MAC level, although in reality, it's been MAC level in quality for a while. The eastern hype machine led by ESPN propped it up.

With this, I predict Louisville and Rutgers will be stomping to jump the BE ship ASAP. Goodbye and good riddance, you league of charlatans.


I don't remember where I read it, but the Big East is now grouped in with CUSA, MWC, MAC, and Sun Belt in trying to get one spot at the table and they only get it if their highest ranked team is higher ranked than the highest ranked team in one of the other four conferences.

Good luck getting 15M a team. They should be trying for $15 a team.

You're welcome.

[LA Muskie]

You're welcome.

An "I told you so moment" huh?

[Masterofreality]

An "I told you so moment" huh?

Nah, I love '95.

Plus he sits behind me. He could beat me senseless with his lightsabre.

[GoMuskies]

Maryland and Rutgers to the Big 10? Didn't see that move coming.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8644587/maryland-terrapins-rutgers-scarlet-knights-talks-join-big-ten-conference-sources-say

[BMoreX]

Maryland and Rutgers to the Big 10? Didn't see that move coming.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8644587/maryland-terrapins-rutgers-scarlet-knights-talks-join-big-ten-conference-sources-say

Ugh. As a Terps basketball fan, this disappoints me.

[paulxu]

How to know your article hasn't been edited:


One stumbling block for Maryland could be finances. Maryland's athletic department has recently dropped sports because of budget issues,

[xudash]

I wonder what happened with G Tech. The "heavy rumor" was for G Tech and Maryland to be called up.

If I had to guess - and this is only my guess - I imagine that Georgia blocked it, of all things. Keep in mind that G Tech is a public university, controlled by the State of Georgia's Regents. That board is chuck full of influential Bulldog grads and has no influential Tech grads on it. Have the state pay $50 million as an exit fee for collegiate sports? Yea, that'll happen in the State of Georgia in order to help Tech.

Otherwise, I'm not surprised by the Maryland/Rutgers selection. Contiguous states and a more logical footprint is maintained. The AAU thing obviously is very important to the B1G.

Otherwise, I hadn't realized that the realignment thing had really settled down all that much. It was at a lull, at best.

And, if some of these combinations sound strange, then go back and read the second to last paragraph in the article. South Carolina was once in the ACC, departing it for independent status in 1971. 1971. Then it transitioned to the SEC. Just because we're in the here and now doesn't mean that things won't change. We've seen it for years now, we're seeing it now, and we'll continue to see it for a while.

Maryland's status and $50 million or not, I can't see them passing this up. They get inside of the castle walls of the wealthiest Big4 out there. I imagine almost anyone associated with Rutgers will have to make a wardrobe change on Monday should the announcement actually take place.

[BBC 08]

So the Under Armor CEO and Maryland booster is cashing out $65M worth of stock. The ACC's exit fee is $50M. You make the connection.

[paulxu]

And, if some of these combinations sound strange, then go back and read the second to last paragraph in the article. South Carolina was once in the ACC, departing it for independent status in 1971. 1971. Then it transitioned to the SEC.

There was a lot of history in that. Frank McGuire, some ugly stuff, NCAA rules, NCAA restrictions on teams in tournament.
And all these schools started out in the Southern Conference...where Wofford now plays who we'll play again this year.


Southern Conference charter members were Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi State, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Washington & Lee. In 1922, six more universities - Florida, LSU, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tulane, and Vanderbilt joined the conference. Later additions included Sewanee (1923), Virginia Military Institute (1924), and Duke (1929).

[DC Muskie]

So the Under Armor CEO and Maryland booster is cashing out $65M worth of stock. The ACC's exit fee is $50M. You make the connection.

Ha!

I'm concerned about what this does to lacrosse. The ACC was set to kill it.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Barrage tweet time!

Dana O'Neil ‏@ESPNDanaOneil
Maryland in serious negotiations w Big 10. Possible announcement as soon as Monday http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587 …

Tim Brando ‏@TimBrando
Where does Maryland get the 50 million dollar ACC exit fee. See Under Armour's Kevin Plank for details. The BIG 10 answers ND's ACC exit.WOW

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
How many reasons does Maryland have to go to the Big 10? I'm told it could be in the neighborhood of 40 million. http://maryland.247sports.com/Board/67/Im-told-14072547/1 …

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
RT @DanWetzel: Big 10 in advanced talks to add Maryland, Rutgers. Can confirm @McMurphyCBS report

[xudash]

And what haven't we brought up yet: the direct hit the BE takes from all this in its television negotiation.

Any agreement they would have been able to put together prior to anything like this happening would have had adjustment clauses, but the bigger problem for the BE is that they weren't even able to get to an agreement sooner (now) to set any form of precedent.

Worse yet, they end up losing their big market player. And add to that the fact that the ACC may very well come calling for UConn. If that doesn't leave UL in a near state of cardiac arrest, I don't know what could possibly put them there, unless someone from C-USA showed up at their front door, suggesting they go back to that.

This is becoming much like torture for those administrators of those schools that haven't been able to get to where they want to get to at this point.

[muskiefan82]

Foosball is the devil!!

[muskienick]

And what haven't we brought up yet: the direct hit the BE takes from all this in its television negotiation.

Any agreement they would have been able to put together prior to anything like this happening would have had adjustment clauses, but the bigger problem for the BE is that they weren't even able to get to an agreement sooner (now) to set any form of precedent.

Worse yet, they end up losing their big market player. And add to that the fact that the ACC may very well come calling for UConn. If that doesn't leave UL in a near state of cardiac arrest, I don't know what could possibly put them there, unless someone from C-USA showed up at their front door, suggesting they go back to that.

This is becoming much like torture for those administrators of those schools that haven't been able to get to where they want to get to at this point.

Would the Big 12 be tempted to take Louisville and Memphis (as bad as their FB has been) to establish a firmer grip as a Big 4 member, qualify for a Conference Championship Game, and get their name coinciding with their number? (Or will another Big East member take precedence over Memphis like UC, one of the Florida schools, or SMU?) Louisville seems like a no-brainer due to the dual success of the FB and BB programs, both in the stands and on the playing surfaces. Memphis has the others beaten soundly on the hardwood but the FB program has been pretty bad for a significant stretch. UC has been decent in both sports, but their fan base in BB is suspect (at best) and their FB facilities aren't really up to Big 12 standards.

Or is my opinion being somewhat jaded by my dislike of Mick in particular and the UC sports program in general?

[xudash]

Would the Big 12 be tempted to take Louisville and Memphis (as bad as their FB has been) to establish a firmer grip as a Big 4 member, qualify for a Conference Championship Game, and get their name coinciding with their number? (Or will another Big East member take precedence over Memphis like UC, one of the Florida schools, or SMU?) Louisville seems like a no-brainer due to the dual success of the FB and BB programs, both in the stands and on the playing surfaces. Memphis has the others beaten soundly on the hardwood but the FB program has been pretty bad for a significant stretch. UC has been decent in both sports, but their fan base in BB is suspect (at best) and their FB facilities aren't really up to Big 12 standards.

Or is my opinion being somewhat jaded by my dislike of Mick in particular and the UC sports program in general?

Nick,

It's only my opinion, but I believe the only team from the Big East that would be worth taking at this point is Louisville. You could make a case for UConn, but I just see that program as being too small.

I don't know if the timing is about Delaney wanting to stick it to Notre Dame or not, but with the B1G striking firstly, weprobably can expect movement from the big 12 sooner than later. However, given my thought above, I think you're looking at ACC teams as being the targets, not Big East teams beyond Louisville.

Memphis has to be way too low on the list for anything like this.

Otherwise, UC is 'effed.

[JAPER]

Louisville has a top notch athletic department from Olympic to revenue generating sports. Any serious athletic conference should know this already. Cincy could be left out in the cold.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville has a top notch athletic department from Olympic to revenue generating sports. Any serious athletic conference should know this already. Cincy could be left out in the cold.

It appears that Louisville is going to get royally screwed in this whole situation. Notre Dame is the only athletic department in the league that can even make a case that it's better than Louisville's. And yet the others are getting invited to the survivor leagues, and Louisville looks to be out. It sucks.

Cincy tried, but the community just is not behind them in the same way the city of Louisville is behind UofL athletics (Bengals, Reds and Muskies certainly have something to do with that).

[paulxu]

I'll never understand why a school located in South Bend, Indiana did not join the Big 10.

[muskienick]

xudash said:"It's only my opinion, but I believe the only team from the Big East that would be worth taking at this point is Louisville. You could make a case for UConn, but I just see that program as being too small.

I don't know if the timing is about Delaney wanting to stick it to Notre Dame or not, but with the B1G striking firstly, weprobably can expect movement from the big 12 sooner than later. However, given my thought above, I think you're looking at ACC teams as being the targets, not Big East teams beyond Louisville.

Memphis has to be way too low on the list for anything like this.

Otherwise, UC is 'effed."


Japer said:"Louisville has a top notch athletic department from Olympic to revenue generating sports. Any serious athletic conference should know this already. Cincy could be left out in the cold.

Pardon me while I shed a few tears of somewhat smuggish happiness resulting from these two perspectives!

[paulxu]

Go would love this. Posted by a Creighton guy over at the A10 board:


UConn to ACC.

UMass to Big East. New addition must have football and this is UMass' big chance to move their FB up a level.

Fordham to Patriot League.

Creighton and Wichita St to A10, further expanding its footprint into the Central Time Zone, gobbling up two committed basketball schools that don't have football programs, while decimating the MVC at the same time. The new additions allow for TV doubleheaders on weeknights with games starting at 7pm and 9pm eastern (6pm and 8 pm central).

With the CAA, Horizon and MVC left in ruins, A10 is well situated to improve Tv contracts by taking the spots previously filled by those other conferences.

[GoMuskies]

Go would love this. Posted by a Creighton guy over at the A10 board:

Yes, please make this happen. Creighton and WSU would be great additions....other than the whole thing about them being stuck out the middle of nowhere.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Go might love this too:


If the Huskies are it, then the Big East, which is already a mess of full members, football-only members and basketball-only members could find the need to expand itself. Or it could continue to sit tight. There's almost no way to know at this point.

BYU and Air Force both remain potential additions either for football only or even full membership. Army could be a possibility – Navy is already coming in 2015. A western school such as Nevada, UNLV or Fresno State could be a football-only candidate to balance things geographically.

Or maybe in an effort to replace UConn's presence in New England, the league goes after the University of Massachusetts or attempts to bolster its basketball by adding Xavier or Virginia Commonwealth or, well, at that point just about anyone and anything and anywhere is on the table.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--maryland-s--rutgers--potential-move-to-big-ten-looms-as-risky-gamble-for-conference-17501209.html

[Muskie]

Yes, please make this happen. Creighton and WSU would be great additions....other than the whole thing about them being stuck out the middle of nowhere.

What are we conference usa size wise then?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[xudash]

I understand Wetzel's point about tradition and traditional geographies, and both UM and Rutger's relative positioning at present in all this, but I don't think he's taking the appropriate long view of this; frankly, I don't think he's looking at it from the realities that are developing in media and entertainment in the 21st Century.

Once again I offer a comparison. Think back, or if you weren't around consider the environment that existed for watching collegiate football in the 60's and 70's. Three primary networks, and, if I recall correctly, only ABC was active in the 70's airing football games. Even if I'm off on that, we're only talking about 3 primary network channels, and they didn't exactly air football all day long. I recall a game or two with Chris Shenkel (sp) doing the equivalent of ESPN game day reporting, with Chevrolet sponsoring that. The point? Only the biggest programs - Ohio State, ND, USC, Michigan, 'bama, etc. - captured the airtime and exposure.

Not any more. The titans of the game remain, but other schools can build a brand if they commit and work hard at it. A few, like Oregon, who literally find a pot of sponsoring gold, have worked to establish themselves in the upper tier, though their trophy case doesn't reflect that yet. So, rather than looking at it as dilution of the football product at present, the expanded geography will bring the cash, and should open up other advantages, like new recruiting pools. Football is on everywhere now, channel wise. For that matter, it's also "on" your flat pannel, iPad and phone, one, a couple or all at the same time (ESPN was dishing that out last night: watch your primary game, while having another tuned in on your iPad on your lap; an attractive option for this point in the season, as the BCS thingy works itself out).

Delaney is no dummy. And all this is taking place in a manner that suggests the 4 x 16 model may still eventually evolve. At the very least, they're killing the 6 BCS conference/championship game format in favor of a 5 conference + 1 pulper entry for the primary bowls, as they otherwise drive towards the new 4 team playoff format. One down - the BE, for all practical intents and purposes. Standby for noise and action from the B12.

[xudash]

BTW, that Creighton poster was taking his Jesuit education out for a solid spin with his post. Good thoughts about weakening the competition while establishing a two time zone viewing format for TV.

If I'm associated with Georgetown or Villanova right now, I don't like how the table is set. Nova could survive all this by cleaning up the Pavilion, but Georgetown had better be very careful from here. Renting NBA arenas makes sense when you're winning and can draw larger public school competition to your place, well at least public schools somewhere in proximity in your time zone.

[DC Muskie]

I never understood the argument that Wetzel makes regarding watching games. It's the same thing when people talk about intraleague games in baseball. Who wants to watch Royals/Pirates? Well no one wants to watch those guys play the Twins and Astros either.

Same thing here. Who wants to see Maryland Minnesota? Well who wants to see Maryland Boston College, because no one is. If I told you we would pay you $20 to watch Maryland and Boston College, or I will pay you $100 to watch Maryland and Minnesota, which one would you take?

I'm a Maryland fan no doubt. The ACC killed itself by selling out for mediocre football, and Maryland followed suit by expanding a stadium they could never pay for, and tried to sprint to catch up with football arms race.

Ohio State and Penn State in Byrd stadium is going to be filled with their fans. But at least it will be filled. Maryland hasn't really sold well expect for those years they were doing well and Miami or Florida State comes to town. Penn State alone makes up for both of those games and on a regular basis.

Terp fans will be upset about not playing Duke or North Carolina in basketball. They are still going to be able to pay them, because both of those program recruit like crazy in Maryland's back yard. And the Big Ten has proven, with teams like Indiana, Michigan State and Purdue, schools that are basketball focused and pretty good.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The rumors are flying after news of Rutgers and Maryland to the Big 10!


UConn to the ACC
UL and Boise to the Big 12
UMass to the Big East
Virginia Tech and UNC/NC State to the SEC


Message boards on fire

[xudash]

The rumors are flying after news of Rutgers and Maryland to the Big 10!


UConn to the ACC
UL and Boise to the Big 12
UMass to the Big East
Virginia Tech and UNC/NC State to the SEC


Message boards on fire

My two cents on probability, assuming Rutgers and Maryland to the B1G is confirmed:

90% - - UConn to the ACC
10% - - UL and Boise to the Big 12
60% - - UMass to the Big East
0% - - Virginia Tech and UNC/NC State to the SEC

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The President of Maryland is publicly stating the $50M exit fee won't hold up in court. FSU feels the same way, both voted against it.

Also GT is doing everything they can to get into the Big 10. They are a dark horse to watch.

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
#Rutgers is getting the most play (along with Maryland) but multiple sources maintain #GeorgiaTech is also vying for a Big 10 spot.

UConn, Rutgers, Maryland, Miami, Clemson, VT, GT, UL, and others could be up for grabs

[Masterofreality]

This ain't over yet. The only thing that is sure is tha the Big Least is screwed.

No network is going to negotiate a rights contract with a league who you don't even know who the members will be by the time the contract commences.

Meanwhile....still..... No one wants SucKS.

[GoMuskies]

I can stomach the Big East going down so long as the ACC goes down with it.

[Masterofreality]

I can stomach the Big East going down so long as the ACC goes down with it.

I get that, but the ACC already has their lucrative TV deal in the bank.

The Big Greased's hubris told it to turn down the ESPN deal at probably the top of the market for what it could get. Right after that is when teams started to jump ship.

[GoMuskies]

I get that, but the ACC already has their lucrative TV deal in the bank.

The Big Greased's hubris told it to turn down the ESPN deal at probably the top of the market for what it could get. Right after that is when teams started to jump ship.

ESPN lowballed the Big East, and when they turned it down ESPN set out to finish off the league. The Big East was going to get a much better deal than the one ESPN offered if the league had stayed together. And that old contract certainly wasn't going to stop anyone from leaving anyway.

[paulxu]

ESPN lowballed the Big East, and when they turned it down ESPN set out to finish off the league.

They made the league. Probably figured they could un-make it.

[GoMuskies]

The league made ESPN, really.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
The Big 12 expansion committee met last week & decided to approach FSU, CU, UL & NC St.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
They would add all 4.

[bleedXblue]

This is just getting assinine

I mean really....does geograhy mean anything anymore ?

Maryland in the Big 10 ?

FSU and NC State in the Big 12 ?

Please make it stop.

[xsteve1]

This is just getting assinine

I mean really....does geograhy mean anything anymore ?

Maryland in the Big 10 ?

FSU and NC State in the Big 12 ?

Please make it stop.

Just as long as it puts X in the best possible position when all this stuff ends. Which IMO is playing in the same league as Marquette, Villanova and Georgetown.

[xudash]

This is just getting assinine

I mean really....does geograhy mean anything anymore ?

Maryland in the Big 10 ?

FSU and NC State in the Big 12 ?

Please make it stop.

Did you have a chance to watch 60 Minutes tonight - - it's segment on big-time college sports, featuring Michigan?

Geography means nothing. Television sets mean everything as they translate into cash. You have approx. 120 big-time college football programs. They literally noted that universities use sports as the "front step" to their universities in that successful athletic programs build brand, loyalty, donations, etc. The Michigan AD noted that approx. 60-70% of all donations made to UM are made during football season.

Of those 120 or so institutions, only about 20 are cashflow neutral or positive. The Michigan AD, in essence, noted that the business model is broken. No real elaboration on that, and they didn't discuss the television aspect of; what's going on now with realignment.

Interesting point: Alabama may have clobbered Michigan in Dallas, but they both walked away with $10 million just from that one game!

I'm sorry, but it isn't ready to stop yet. And there will most likely be some subset of programs that really get burned in all this. Programs that attempted to keep up in the arms race - that phrase came up during the 60 Minutes segment - but that were not able to navigate their way into one of the coveted top conferences.

We are truly living in crazy times in this regard. It's rather entertaining to witness, given that I believe our alma mater is safe in terms of being well positioned to stay strong in the second most important sport around any campus.

[xudash]

Just as long as it puts X in the best possible position when all this stuff ends. Which IMO is playing in the same league as Marquette, Villanova and Georgetown.

Having learned that LossSalle sh1t the bed again today - CENTRAL CT. STATE - I'm more than ready for this to happen. I don't care about the top of the A10, because the bottom of it is way too expensive, opportunity cost and otherwise.

Basically at some logical point, let's hope that a combination of premier hoops-centric programs can come together, score a reasonable TV package, and produce at a level that generates multiple bids annually and a conference RPI ranking in the 5 to 7 range.

[paulxu]

This is great. I'm waiting for Dash's old prediction of the SEC taking UNC and Duke to come true.
If all these other schools bolt from the ACC, he might be right.
Plus, ND looks crazy for not getting in one of the big 4.

[xudash]

This is great. I'm waiting for Dash's old prediction of the SEC taking UNC and Duke to come true.
If all these other schools bolt from the ACC, he might be right.
Plus, ND looks crazy for not getting in one of the big 4.

Paul,

Recall that I also shared that both Maryland and G Tech were rumored to be heading to the B1G back when I shared it. Perhaps Delaney changed his mind on half the dance card. The person that shared the information had heard it directly from Delaney over a bottle of wine in Chicago a few months ago (I'll share that much). That was before ACC members gave themselves terminal cancer when they voted in their crazy exit fee.

I presume the B1G will provide Maryland some form of an amortizing arrangement on whatever is left of their exit fee, once their attorneys attempt to shred it to pieces in court, in order to make Maryland's transition a little more digestible. Otherwise, maybe two $50 million exit fees were too much to fuss through at one time (for the B1G), or perhaps the boys in Chicago re-ran the television models, determining that the Jersey Shore/contiguous states approach beat out penetration into the South/SEC/ACC territory.

I don't believe the timing is there yet for the SEC to go after UNC and Duke. But then again, I thought the B12 would break the damn, not the B1G and not over this weekend.

[xavierj]

This is great. I'm waiting for Dash's old prediction of the SEC taking UNC and Duke to come true.
If all these other schools bolt from the ACC, he might be right.
Plus, ND looks crazy for not getting in one of the big 4.

Why does Notre Dame look crazy? They are number 1 in the country and will probably play for the title and they have a fairly young team with a very good recruiting class coming in. I would say they seem about the the only smart one of the bunch? Why share all the money they rake in? I think they have a pretty unique situation. They a different than everyone else. Why try to be the same?

[Juice]

Why does Notre Dame look crazy? They are number 1 in the country and will probably play for the title and they have a fairly young team with a very good recruiting class coming in. I would say they seem about the the only smart one of the bunch? Why share all the money they rake in? I think they have a pretty unique situation. They a different than everyone else. Why try to be the same?

Big Ten teams make more money off their TV deals than ND does.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Apparently, Maryland's Board of Regents will meet tomorrow morning to approve the Big10 move at 10am

[xavierj]

Big Ten teams make more money off their TV deals than ND does.

Notre Dame was the 2nd most valuable football program in the country last year behind Texas. They were valued at $112 million with a profit of $47 million. I would say they are doing just fine.

[Juice]

Notre Dame was the 2nd most valuable football program in the country last year behind Texas. They were valued at $112 million with a profit of $47 million. I would say they are doing just fine.

My point is that they could make more money in the Big Ten because Penn State and Michigan made more than them in 2010.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/08/29/in-college-football-money-buys-champions.html?appSession=998229220080285&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=1&CPIsortType=asc&CPIorderby=Revenues_Mens_Team

[paulxu]

Why does Notre Dame look crazy? They are number 1 in the country and will probably play for the title

In a couple of years when you get to a 4 team playoff for the national championship, and if at that time there are 4 conferences with 14-16 teams playing conference championships to get into those bowls, and college football starts to look like every other college sport in the country with an organized playoff system.....it's just my thought that those conferences might preclude independents from the system.

[xudash]

Notre Dame was the 2nd most valuable football program in the country last year behind Texas. They were valued at $112 million with a profit of $47 million. I would say they are doing just fine.

Do you honestly believe that schools like Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, etc. give a rat's ass about ND? At least two of the B4 conferences would love to snare ND for inclusion in their membership, but, on the flip side, if ND pushes back from their overtures, those conferences will feel differently about it. You can see that in Delaney's action over this past weekend, going for Maryland soon after ND made its deal with Swofford and the ACC.

As Paul mentioned, this whole thing is still migrating towards a play-off structure that will be run through conferences for the purpose of keeping the regular season relevant. ND has no magic with its competition over the long-term. Frankly, I don't know what the performance parameters are for ND in order for it to receive any consideration for a BCS level bowl or to even make the new playoff format. I just read this from a recent article:

The Atlantic Coast Conference has a similar deal with the Orange Bowl, and another deal is being completed that would reserve the other spot in the Miami game for a team from the SEC or Big Ten or Notre Dame.

The Atlantic Coast Conference has a similar deal with the Orange Bowl, and another deal is being completed that would reserve the other spot in the Miami game for a team from the SEC or Big Ten or Notre Dame.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/11/12/2364270/2014-bcs-playoff-format-under.html#storylink=cpy

Otherwise, I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from or how they were determined. That's a weak valuation on $47 million in profit. Texas generates the most athletic department revenue in the nation. Ohio State, Alabama, Florida and Michigan follow Texas. Again, that's REVENUE. So I'm hard pressed to understand how ND was the second most valuable program behind Texas last year:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

[xavierj]

http://http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/3668/irish-second-most-valuable-team (http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/3668/irish-second-most-valuable-team)

I saw this from Forbes. Who knows.

[xudash]

http://http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/3668/irish-second-most-valuable-team (http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/3668/irish-second-most-valuable-team)

I saw this from Forbes. Who knows.

Okay. Far be it from me to refute a Forbes ranking!

It has to be ND's profit level multiplied against what clearly is a conservative multiple for valuation.

Note the following from the article: Notre Dame is valued at $112 million, producing $72 million in revenue and $47 million in total profit. Texas produced $96 million in revenue and $71 million in total profit.

It's interesting that ND makes that much profit on $72 million in revenue. They clearly own all their facilities and must otherwise simply not field as many teams as say a B1G member.

You may want to check which year this came from, as Texas produced over $120 million in revenue last year. Even so, the valuation will be based on EBITDA (profit), and ND must simply have a very different department model for dropping that much to the bottom line.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Maryland's BoR just approved the move to the Big 10

MARYLAND IS GOING TO THE BIG 10!

Maryland will announce the move at 3pm

GT and Rutgers are in an absolute dogfight to become #14 in the Big 10.

Also, the SEC has expressed interest in UNC and VT in the past....Will they move in? Does the Big 12 go after Clemson, UL, FSU, and Miami like they have indicated in the past?

Will the ACC go after UConn and Rutgers(If Rutgers doesn't get the invite to B10)? Do Boise State and SDSU even play a down in the Big East?

Will the chain of events effect X?


I'm sure Dash will put this much more eloquently than myself but Time to sit back, drink some coffee, and watch the dominoes fall. I Will enjoy watching the Big East and ACC scramble.

[GoMuskies]

There is no scenario that would ever leave ND out in the cold. Just will not happen. Ditto UNC. They may not enjoy the ACC falling apart as they may prefer being aligned with that group, but UNC will ALWAYS have a safe landing place no matter what happens.

Die ACC, die!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN
Maryland's board of regents unanimously approves move to Big Ten, source tells @ESPN

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports
A source with knowledge of the situation tells http://InsideMDsports.com #Maryland has decided to move to the #BigTen. http://maryland.247sports.com/Board/67/-MAJOR-IMS-NEWS-BREAK--14142962 …

[SM#24]

I don't see the ACC dying; it will just become a merged Big East & ACC light. While the Big East becomes CUSA from 10 years ago.

[GoMuskies]

While the Big East becomes CUSA from 10 years ago.

You think the Big East will be that good? The 10 years ago CUSA had TCU, Southern Miss and ECU. All good programs at the time. Maybe adding Boise to the mix makes it so.

[Masterofreality]

You think the Big East will be that good? The 10 years ago CUSA had TCU, Southern Miss and ECU. All good programs at the time. Maybe adding Boise to the mix makes it so.

Die Big East, DIE!

The ACC will not die. They will go after UConn now or maybe even, gasp Go, THE University of Louisville! If GTech gets the Big 10 nod, I could see them going after both, or maybe Rutgers and UofL.

Meanwhile, NO ONE wants SucKS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[GoMuskies]

The Big East is already dead. The shame is that they already killed their basketball, too, by adding Houston, SMU, and UCF. The Big East may not even be as good in basketball as the old C-USA was. That's the shocking part.

[waggy]

This is going to open the flood gates now. I would think Florida State has to jump now.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

This is going to open the flood gates now. I would think Florida State has to jump now.

You would think the Big 12 talks will heat up again...The Big 12 would be insane to refuse FSU

[paulxu]

Die ACC, die!


Die Big East, DIE!

Muskie Hoops Cage Fight!

[_LH]

You would think the Big 12 talks will heat up again...The Big 12 would be insane to refuse FSU

I thought you said everyone wanted out of the B12? Would FSU want to deal with Texas?

[DC Muskie]

The Big East is already dead. The shame is that they already killed their basketball, too, by adding Houston, SMU, and UCF. The Big East may not even be as good in basketball as the old C-USA was. That's the shocking part.

What's funny is the ACC did the same thing by adding Miami, Florida State and Boston College. I like the ACC, but man I do not feel one bit sad over the way it killed itself for mediocre football.

[JTG]

There is no scenario that would ever leave ND out in the cold. Just will not happen. Ditto UNC. They may not enjoy the ACC falling apart as they may prefer being aligned with that group, but UNC will ALWAYS have a safe landing place no matter what happens.

Die ACC, die!

I can understand Big East hatred, me included, but what's your issue with the ACC...they are a non factor as far as X is concerned.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Who will be #14 in the Big 10?!?

Will it be Rutgers or GT?

GT or Rutgers?

Let the games begin!

[waggy]

I'd say Georgia Tech. Rutgers hadn't even received an ACC invite yet.

[GoMuskies]

I'm a Louisville football fan. It's just bugged me that the Big East has been stepped on as this crappy football league (it basically is), while the ACC has essentially received a free pass (and access in the new bowl set-up) despite being equally (if you're generous) terrible. So out of spite, I want the ACC to suffer the same fate.

I'm like that.

[_LH]

Who will be #14 in the Big 10?!?

Will it be Rutgers or GT?

GT or Rutgers?

Let the games begin!

I've seen several recent articles citing Rutgers but nothing recent about GT.

[waggy]

I've seen several recent articles citing Rutgers but nothing recent about GT.

Rutgers is just leverage...

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Good to have you back _LH! How have you been?

I think you're right. I think Rutgers will be the call but GT is scratching and clawing and doing everything they can to be #14(probably too late though)

Where is Dash? I bet he's grinning from ear to ear right now

[_LH]

Good to have you back _LH! How have you been?

I think you're right. I think Rutgers will be the call but GT is scratching and clawing and doing everything they can to be #14(probably too late though)

Where is Dash? I bet he's grinning from ear to ear right now

I hope its Rutgers.

[DC Muskie]

So out of spite, I want the ACC to suffer the same fate.

Lucky for you, the ACC will self implode.

I think this is a sign, do not let ND join your conference, even partially. Others will jump ship.

Personally, I'm ecstatic that Maryland is going to the Big Ten. Reading what people out here are writing is hilarious. Feinstein had a good article on it.

[xudash]

I'm a Louisville football fan. It's just bugged me that the Big East has been stepped on as this crappy football league (it basically is), while the ACC has essentially received a free pass (and access in the new bowl set-up) despite being equally (if you're generous) terrible. So out of spite, I want the ACC to suffer the same fate.

I'm like that.

Could all of that have been about tradition and perception?

- The ACC has been around for much longer than the BE.

- The ACC was never and is not now a hybrid conference.

- The ACC has more prestigious schools in it.

I certainly understand your point about relative performance and how that has failed, in your opinion, to translate in all this. I'd say that some of it is about having a longer tradition and a lot of it could be about perception, especially now more than ever, as the BE continues to bleed programs, many of which chose to transition to the ACC. That right there is another reason for all this.

[Masterofreality]

I'm a Louisville football fan. It's just bugged me that the Big East has been stepped on as this crappy football league (it basically is), while the ACC has essentially received a free pass (and access in the new bowl set-up) despite being equally (if you're generous) terrible. So out of spite, I want the ACC to suffer the same fate.

I'm like that.

Now see, Go, we have common ground. For the sake of my family, most of whom are big U of L fans, Louisville needs to get into a better situation and shut their quick draw basketball coach the f up.

Louisville deserves to land someplace better than a zombie league, and leave SucKS to their own hell.

Meanwhile, I await the YTG whining over how he and his carcassed school group get no respect.

[DC Muskie]

- The ACC was never and is not now a hybrid conference.

Yes it is.

[GoMuskies]

Yes it is.

Yeah, they're working to re-create the ultra-successful Big East model right now...with 6 former Big East members. Good luck!

[muskienick]

Yes it is.

But only from the point of view of Private/Public hybridization. Not true hybridization as far as athletic conferences go (i.e. football and non-FBS/BCS-football hybridization).

[GoMuskies]

But only from the point of view of Private/Public hybridization. Not true hybridization as far as athletic conferences go (i.e. football and non-FBS/BCS-football hybridization).

Hybrid in that Notre Dame is in the league but doesn't compete in football.

[xudash]

Good to have you back _LH! How have you been?

I think you're right. I think Rutgers will be the call but GT is scratching and clawing and doing everything they can to be #14(probably too late though)

Where is Dash? I bet he's grinning from ear to ear right now

I'm watching it all unfold with you JTT37. Besides, none of it had to do with me predicting anything. I just happened to be in an interesting room one night.

I still have to wonder what happened with G Tech, in terms of the information shared about it being the other target along with Maryland. Something happened that changed that. It could have been the ACC schools ridiculously roping themselves into an absurd exit fee, or some other unforeseen thing happened that changed the pecking order. Either something G Tech failed to do or was seen as being deficient in, or a determination by the B1G that the contiguous market/Jersey+NY TV sets were the better way to go.

At any rate, I don't believe anyone truly believed that things had settled down. The commissioners of the Big4 certainly weren't thinking that way. They continue to scheme in their grand palaces.

But the fact that the B1G plunged in and did so now has rocked the collegiate landscape. I was thinking it would be about spring announcements coming out of the B12 that reinvigorated the realignment process.

With the B1G doing this, I see two important things happening:

1. Human nature will take over and the pace of realignment will begin to escalate; and
2. The 4 x 16 model will come into clearer view, because the panic that ensues from #1 will gut the ACC as the 5th major conference.

It's beginning to approach the point of limited selection. It will get there very quickly once the other conferences start responding. Any selection has to make sense to each of these conferences, but it probably is safe to say that computers are humming all over the country right now to figure out what will end up constituting the next big headline about all this.

[SM#24]

- The ACC was never and is not now a hybrid conference.


ND now makes it a hybrid league. I am still predicting that when it is all said and done, the ACC will give Gtown and Villanova the same deal as ND.

[chico]

I agree with Dash - perception and tradition go a long way in marketing college sports. It's why Notre Dame was able to remain, dare I say, relevant when they weren't very good. The average football fan is somewhat lazy and if the ACC gets hyped over the Big East as a better conference they'll believe it.

I look at the schools the ACC took as schools getting called from AAA to the majors. I look at the schools the Big East took as getting called up from AA to AAA. And it may turn out that the Big East has better football teams than the ACC after this all shakes out, but it still goes back to perception and tradition.

[xudash]

Yes it is.

Ah, yes: ND. I'm thinking of the more severe definition, which is hoops schools coupled to all-sports schools. But I appreciate your technical correction.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

RUTGERS IS LEAVING FOR THE BIG 10...ANNOUNCEMENT TOMORROW

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Rutgers will announce move to Big Ten on Tuesday, sources told @ESPN

[GoMuskies]

RUTGERS IS LEAVING FOR THE BIG 10...ANNOUNCEMENT TOMORROW

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN

Rutgers will announce move to Big Ten on Tuesday, sources told @ESPN

At this point you just laugh. I wanted it to be Georgia Tech, though. The more ACC turmoil, the better.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

'What this means for the rest of re-alignment'
http://outkickthecoverage.com/reports-maryland-and-rutgers-to-the-big-ten.php


Go ahead and pencil in UConn to the ACC.

It also reopens the window for the SEC to expand into Virginia and North Carolina.

[BBC 08]

SEC moving into North Carolina? Where have we heard that before?

[GoMuskies]

Someone of the Louisville board posted a tweet stating that UConn to the ACC may be announced tomorrow.

No idea who any of these people are:

@jdlong40: @BryanDFischer: RT @wilnerhotline: Realignment source: UConn to ACC could happen as soon as Tuesday.”

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Someone of the Louisville board posted a tweet stating that UConn to the ACC may be announced tomorrow.

No idea who any of these people are:

@jdlong40: @BryanDFischer: RT @wilnerhotline: Realignment source: UConn to ACC could happen as soon as Tuesday.”

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV

UCONN has notified the Big East it is leaving for the ACC.

[xsteve1]

Someone of the Louisville board posted a tweet stating that UConn to the ACC may be announced tomorrow.

No idea who any of these people are:

@jdlong40: @BryanDFischer: RT @wilnerhotline: Realignment source: UConn to ACC could happen as soon as Tuesday.”

Really surprised Louisville has gotten caught with their tail between their legs on this. Jurich is one of the best in the business.

[outsideobserver11]

Jeremy Fowler ‏@JFowlerCBS

ACC in talks with UConn, Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati about 14th team to replace Maryland, source told @CBSSports.

[xsteve1]

Jeremy Fowler ‏@JFowlerCBS

ACC in talks with UConn, Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati about 14th team to replace Maryland, source told @CBSSports.

Supposedly it's UConn's to lose.

[DC Muskie]

I think their basketball coaches should have a cage match and whomever wins, gets the bid.

[LA Muskie]

Really surprised Louisville has gotten caught with their tail between their legs on this. Jurich is one of the best in the business.

He's sort of in a similar position to Xavier -- he has little leverage (albeit for different reasons). They don't carry a huge market and they aren't well-regarded academically. I still suspect they'll land somewhere, but there will be a lot of nail-biting in the meantime.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I think if FSU goes to the Big 12, UL will join them(Just a hunch but UL is not getting left out in the cold during re-alignment. They've been too active)

[DC Muskie]

Supposedly it's UConn's to lose.

How do you lose an invitation?

I bet Boston College is hoping that they join so that they can form the old BIG East again when everyone bails from the reshaped ACC. This is going to be some vicious cycle.

[DC Muskie]

I think if FSU goes to the Big 12, UL will join them(Just a hunch but UL is not getting left out in the cold during re-alignment. They've been too active)

Wouldn't it be nice if Louisville and West Virginia just fly over Cincinnati to play Big 12 games, while UC uses Nippert as a warm up for the main event, the D 1 Regional final? Oh, like they did this past weekend.

[outsideobserver11]

I think if FSU goes to the Big 12, UL will join them(Just a hunch but UL is not getting left out in the cold during re-alignment. They've been too active)

I'm guessing if FSU goes to the big 12 it will be Clemson joining them.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I am hearing GT and UVA to the Big 10 by next week. At least that's what I'm hearing

Rick Pitino "If I'm the ACC, I'd want #UofL the first school I'd even think about. U of L is a great situation, and so is Cincinnati down the road. … The Big 12 really missed the boat in what happened."

[GoMuskies]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I am hearing GT and UVA to the Big 10 by next week. At least that's what I'm hearing

Please be true. PLEASE!

[LA Muskie]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I am hearing GT and UVA to the Big 10 by next week. At least that's what I'm hearing.
I've been wondering why there wasn't more chatter about BIG going to 16. If that's the inevitable direction, then why not have the pick of the litter? Seems like a no-brainer to me. And while I'm not sure doubling down on the beltway is necessary, their academic standards narrow the list of suitors significantly.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein

Dominoes looking like this ---- MD + Rutgers to Big Ten. UConn to ACC. Then SEC going after a few ACC schools. When will we have order?

[_LH]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21058110/expansion-fallout-houston-can-get-out-of-deal-with-big-east-without-penalty

[xudash]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein

Dominoes looking like this ---- MD + Rutgers to Big Ten. UConn to ACC. Then SEC going after a few ACC schools. When will we have order?

They're already at 14. What are they going to do, an inverted March to the Sea and expand to over 20 teams?

Now that I think about it, they're prioritizing a few of them to finalize on two.

[LA Muskie]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21058110/expansion-fallout-houston-can-get-out-of-deal-with-big-east-without-penalty
Any new Big East school that didn't negotiate outs for itself has only itself (via its President, AD, and attorneys) to blame. The rest of the world saw this coming from miles and miles away...

[_LH]

Any new Big East school that didn't negotiate outs for itself has only itself (via its President, AD, and attorneys) to blame. The rest of the world saw this coming from miles and miles away...

Why Boise St. still has any interest is beyond me.

[GoMuskies]

The only thing worse than the new Big East will be the old Mountain West.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Possible Targets from what I've gathered from the rumor mills

ACC:
Connecticut
Cincinnati
South Florida
Louisville
St Johns
Georgetown

Big 12:
Boise State
BYU
FLorida State
VT
Clemson
Miami
Louisville

Big 10:
Virginia
GT

SEC:
UNC
VT

[LA Muskie]

Why Boise St. still has any interest is beyond me.

They should start a brand new conference. Call it BIG. Have 2 divisions: Big West and Big East. ... Crap. Can't do that. 2 of those names are already taken. And unlike the Big "East" they aren't going anywhere.

How about Big Sh!t?

[bjf123]

They should start a brand new conference. Call it BIG. Have 2 divisions: Big West and Big East. ... Crap. Can't do that. 2 of those names are already taken. And unlike the Big "East" they aren't going anywhere.

How about Big Sh!t?

Public and private reps for that!

[_LH]

They should start a brand new conference. Call it BIG. Have 2 divisions: Big West and Big East. ... Crap. Can't do that. 2 of those names are already taken. And unlike the Big "East" they aren't going anywhere.

How about Big Sh!t?

I always thought the new BE should be called the Big Nobodies. I think Congress needs to step in after UCONN and Rutgers leave and force the new BE to call themselves CUSA, since that is what they are.

[xudash]

Possible Targets from what I've gathered from the rumor mills

ACC:
Connecticut
Cincinnati
South Florida
Louisville
St Johns
Georgetown

Big 12:
Boise State
BYU
FLorida State
VT
Clemson
Miami
Louisville

Big 10:
Virginia
GT

SEC:
UNC
VT

If the ACC admits hoops schools, that would seem like a logical indication that they know things are moving towards the 4 x 16 framework.

Overall, if the ACC loses the likes of FSU, V Tech and Clemson, it's game, set, match for them anyway as far as big boy football is concerned. At that point, it probably would make sense to go for more of a 50/50 balance for solving for both football and basketball, in an effort to drive whatever would become the best television package for that moving forward.

[GoMuskies]

Big East Tournament in Madison Square Garden sure will be interesting with Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and UConn gone and Central Florida, SMU and Houston in. Talk about destroying tradition.

[DC Muskie]

Big East Tournament in Madison Square Garden sure will be interesting with Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and UConn gone and Central Florida, SMU and Houston in. Talk about destroying tradition.

I always felt like if the ACC wanted to it would be smart to move to NYC at least a few years for their tournament.

[xudash]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21058110/expansion-fallout-houston-can-get-out-of-deal-with-big-east-without-penalty

The source also said prospective new Big East members were told by former commissioner John Marinatto that a new contract would be worth $10 million-$20 million more [per year per school]” than what the Big East is currently getting. League schools are currently earning approximately $4 million per year. Conference USA schools currently earn half that number per year.

Industry sources have said for months that the new Big East would be lucky to get between $70 million-$100 million per year for the new alignment. That translates to $5.7 million-$7.1 million per year, per school.



What's the over/under on whether or not the BE actually gets to a television agreement?

If they actually get to one, what's the over/under on that agreement exceeding the existing C-USA deal of about $2 mil per team?

What is the present probability that the new BE commish wishes he were doing anything other than what he's doing now?


BTW, from today's Biz Courrier: "The move makes UC, Louisville and South Florida tied as the second-oldest football-playing conference members. They joined in 2005. Only the University of Connecticut, an original member of the Big East dating back to 1979, plays football and has been in the conference longer once Rutgers leaves." - - How's that for disruption and change!

[paulxu]

I'm so frigging confused. I can NOT keep up.
I think some of the teams in the Big East football are leaving next year.
There are 8 teams: Rutg, Louis, Syr, Cin, Temple, Conn, Pitt and S.Florida.

If Rutg, Syr, Conn, and Pitt are leaving...that only leaves 4 teams playing football....I guess awaiting the other ones scheduled to join from West of the Mississippi.

Does that sound right?

[paulxu]

Funny basketball tweet of the day:

Jon Rothstein‏@JonRothstein

In 2009, the Big East had 3 number one seeds in the NCAA Tournament. Now three + a half years later, the conference is hanging by a thread.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Love it!! WVU contacted by ACC officials today!

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Excuse me, Oliver, would you like to make less money per year and play Duke and Wake in Fb? No? You sure? Ok

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
For months I've said it will all start towards the end of fb season and here we are

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn orchestrating demise of Big East as I foretold.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Acc takes Uconn next

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Acc in panic mode. FSU on the horn with guess who and BC irate over possible inclusion of Uconn. Fun times.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn practically begging us to swipe UL and USF to prevent the demise of the ACC as legitimate FB conference. MD to Big is fine. GT, UVa too

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
But the ACC cannot afford to lose CU, FSU and vagtech

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
ACC and FSU have contacted UL and Uconn

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
FSU only contacted UL sorry. ACC contacted both

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I'm getting a very solid "Big 10 not done yet" Florida state may be in the mix as well as Clemson. Both schools have received contact

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@JSi07 yes. Possible unprecedented 20 team conference in the works. If this happens..whispers 2 other power conferences merging.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile.....

NOBODY WANTS SucKS!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..............HA!

[DC Muskie]

How funny it would be if the BIG Ten just gobbled everyone up and created divisions, which essentially were the ACC and BE?

[paulxu]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@JSi07 yes. Possible unprecedented 20 team conference in the works. If this happens..whispers 2 other power conferences merging.

Would that get them more than one of the 4 slots in the NC playoff system?

[xudash]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I'm getting a very solid "Big 10 not done yet" Florida state may be in the mix as well as Clemson. Both schools have received contact

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@JSi07 yes. Possible unprecedented 20 team conference in the works. If this happens..whispers 2 other power conferences merging.


Sounds like they went from wine to acid and quaaludes.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

@SIPeteThamel: Coach K on his Sirius XM show taped today: "I think the ACC is vulnerable right now."

@TomahawkNation: FSU prez on $50M exit fee: “If Maryland challenges it, I’ll be watching closely...” http://on.tdo.com/100AHhd

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken
Delany: "I'd like more, not less" with regard to basketball. Translation: Get ready for 20-game league schedules everywhere

[muskienick]

Hybrid in that Notre Dame is in the league but doesn't compete in football.

That really doesn't count. He||! Churchill, Stalin, and Roosevelt would have taken Notre Dame into the Yalta Conference had they been given half a chance!!!

[kellernr]

I like this idea. Not sure if its already posted and i dont want to go back and look

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1415206-big-east-becoming-an-all-catholic-basketball-only-conference-is-the-future

[xsteve1]

I like this idea. Not sure if its already posted and i dont want to go back and look

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1415206-big-east-becoming-an-all-catholic-basketball-only-conference-is-the-future

Just trying to understand when Dayton became an A10 powerhouse. When was the last time they finished top 4? I'd add Butler over Creighton to the list even though Butler isn't catholic.

[paulxu]

Add Butler, drop Dayton, and put VCU and Richmond in there.

Not sure about this guy if he thinks Dayton is a powerhouse, and Villinova (who actually won a NC) needs to prove itself.

[LA Muskie]

I like this idea. Not sure if its already posted and i dont want to go back and look

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1415206-big-east-becoming-an-all-catholic-basketball-only-conference-is-the-future

His logic is atrocious. But I'd still like that league. Butler and VCU would be better adds, but if being an All-Catholic league brings something to the table (marketing, shared missions) then I'm also fine with it as suggested.

[bleedXblue]

This guy lost me when he included Dayton and powerhouse in the same sentence.

[Michigan Muskie]

This guy lost me when he included Dayton and powerhouse and Bleacher Reportin the same sentence.

Fixed it for you.

[GoMuskies]

BYU, Boise and San Diego State (Back) to the MWC?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8653727/boise-state-broncos-sdsu-aztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say

[Masterofreality]

BYU, Boise and San Diego State (Back) to the MWC?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8653727/boise-state-broncos-sdsu-aztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say

The Borecats, hahahahahahahahaha! Back to Conference USA with ya!

[DC Muskie]

I like this idea. Not sure if its already posted and i dont want to go back and look

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1415206-big-east-becoming-an-all-catholic-basketball-only-conference-is-the-future

This was written by someone who knows nothing about college basketball.

I personally don't like an All Catholic League. I don't see the advantage.

[LA Muskie]

This was written by someone who knows nothing about college basketball.

I personally don't like an All Catholic League. I don't see the advantage.

I think the theory is that it gives the league something unique to sell. The problem -- as a young(ish) former Catholic -- is that nobody's buying what they want to sell anymore. Would have made for a great league in 1960, though.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Certain FSU boosters and Board members are being very vocal in urging Administration to strongly consider B12 proposal again.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
3 votes against adding Uconn, 6 votes against UL currently in ACC. Lobbying could reduce UL votes to 2 against. UM, FSU, BC against Uconn

[coasterville95]

I think I just read a tweet suggesting Austin to the Big East to replace one of their dearly departing.

Austin, really?Well that was the Xavier Buzz twitter feed, take it for what it's worth.

Oh well, A10 Talk is suggesting the basketball only members of the Big East come over to the A10.

Either way - that conference carousel sure is spinning faster, which means change, she is a coming.

[GoMuskies]

BYU, Boise and San Diego State (Back) to the MWC?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8653727/boise-state-broncos-sdsu-aztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say

SDSU's AD basically says this is made up.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov/19/sdsu-says-its-moving-foward-big-east/

[DC Muskie]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Certain FSU boosters and Board members are being very vocal in urging Administration to strongly consider B12 proposal again.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
3 votes against adding Uconn, 6 votes against UL currently in ACC. Lobbying could reduce UL votes to 2 against. UM, FSU, BC against Uconn

Maryland is able to vote on members? Or is that Miami? And why is BC against UConn?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Maryland is able to vote on members? Or is that Miami? And why is BC against UConn?

Miami. BC is adamantly against UConn. They blocked UConn before in the last re-alignment.

[paulxu]

Money talks. Bullsh$t walks.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/19/maryland-big-ten-money/index.html

[xu95]

I've been wondering why there wasn't more chatter about BIG going to 16. If that's the inevitable direction, then why not have the pick of the litter? Seems like a no-brainer to me. And while I'm not sure doubling down on the beltway is necessary, their academic standards narrow the list of suitors significantly.

I'm with you. I think the SEC dropped the ball when they stopped at 14.

[xu95]

I like how he called them vagtech.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=10535745

Where do we go?
Where do we go now?
Where do we go?

Perhaps the B12 should have considered ESPN's offer to take Louisville and Rutgers and call it a day. Or, perhaps not. I know a lot of you folks are getting impatient with the B12's seemingly sit-on-their-hands approach but lets look at some points
-Adding Rutgers would have put another school on an island
-Adding 2 BE teams to get a 2 million increase per school looks great at first but with no conference-specific cable network we would never realize the full benefit of adding Rutgers. Also the feeling was that Louisville would always be in the wings because the SEC doesn't need them(UK) and the ACC doesn't want them(or so we thought)
-In regards to Notre Dame: We simply were not willing to sell them the farm that the ACC was. In a few months the notion of the Irish EVER joining the ACC in all sports will be even more laughable than the when they were in the Big East.

So where does that leave the B12? I'll get back to that in a moment.

First lets take a look at what to expect in the coming days and weeks from the other power conferences.
I said weeks ago that the B10 was going to make a splash first. They did. But my sources are telling me they are not done yet. They still want Notre Dame but that is looking more and more a pipe dream. I'm being told that Irish will stay in their new home regardless of defections. UVA, UNC, Duke, FSU, GT, BC, Miami and Clemson were all in talks with the B10 at one point or another in the past 6 weeks. The fact that Rutgers is going to be their next stop after MD is very telling. It means the B10 took the bait from Espn and helped them in their quest to destroy the Big East brand. So if we follow the logic that the B10 is working with ESPN in these matters we can only come to the conclusion that FSU and Clemson will not be raided by Delaney because that would kill the ACC-the conference ESPN controls 100%. Would losing UVA kill the ACC? No. GT? No. Now, I have heard whispers of a 20-team conference envisioned by Delaney that spans from the Heartlands to the atlantic Coast. Not likely to happen with this round. I believe the B10 will go to 16 but only after the ACC "reloads" and after the SEC makes their next move.
At this point the ACC will add Uconn. Maybe UL instead or in addition too-lets hope not, that means they are actively trying to appease FSU and block the B12.
The SEC is the one that will truly put the hurt on the ACC. By taking VT and (most likely)NCST, Slive will accomplish 4 things; Dissent among Tobacco Road, acquisition of 2 large states to their conference map(SEC network), landing the ACC's most competitive football program that comes with Tidewater recruiting for all, and he fixes the scheduling/division woes he has currently(pods!).
Will the B12 move yet? Too soon to tell. Most likely the B10 will make their next move by grabbing UVA or UNC(if they are willing at that point) and GT(pretty much a lock at this point).
After that I have no clue yet.
Rumors circulating that my sources have informed me of:
-PAC trying to weasel back into Texoma's heart
-BYU trying to get in the PAC or back in the MWC?
-BE negotiations with NBC falling apart with some bball schools threatening to bolt
-MD admin believes they will only pay $20 million to get out
-FSU is trying to get Slive to pick them but they have been on the horn with the B12 since last week as well.
-miami may be getting restless as well

One thing is clear; Disney is ruining college sports.
While the house of mouse was great for Marvel comics(Avengers), it is apparent that their purchase of ABC/ESPN is what ignited this arms race and continues to escalate it.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Georgetown and Nova in talks with Atlantic 10

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Uconn has informed Big East they are preparing to move to the ACC

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Clemson and FSU are making a final push for the SEC. The B12 awaits...

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
15 schools have contacted the B12 offices since Yesterday morning. Schools spanning coast to coast

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Espn has told Swofford that the conference should brace itself and have 4-6 replacement schools at the ready. Suggested adds UH, SMU,USF,UC

[GoMuskies]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Georgetown and Nova in talks with Atlantic 10


Come to the A-10, Come to the A-10, Come to the A-10...

[waggy]

Okay, that makes little sense to me. With Temple and Memphis, the BE is still a better conference than the A10.

[paulxu]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Clemson and FSU are making a final push for the SEC. The B12 awaits...

Way back when this was what I (as a SEC fan) wanted to see. I know Dash said UNC/Duke to raise BB image, etc.
But the SEC has both big schools in Miss, Ala, and Tenn. I would have like to have added Clemson and FSU. Would have prefered them over Missouri/A&M, although a Texas footprint is a good thing.

This is going to be fun to watch. Especially if basketball schools leave the BE for the A10, and even better if some A10 schools leave for football reasons.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Okay, that makes little sense to me. With Temple and Memphis, the BE is still a better conference than the A10.

The key here is IF there is a BE.

Boise, SDSU, BYU are uncertain. Houston is uncertain. UConn/UL are fighting for the ACC...Syracuse and Pitt are gone. WV already left. On top of that, ND is gone

Without football, there's no reason for the Bball only schools to stay.

[waggy]

But if the football schools leave they can just add the better BBall programs.

[outsideobserver11]

UC's president sent out a letter to alumni and its the first time they haven't mentioned being committed to the Big East. So pretty much, as much shit as possible is being thrown with the hopes of sticking to someones wall.

On a side note, many in the Big 12 camps say the conference is taking a wait and see approach because FSU/Clemson are the ultimate prize and UC/Louisville will always be there to fall back on if necessary.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
My sources are saying UNC UVA have emerged as the Big 10s next 2 targets. GT will have to wait. Delaney wants contiguous state lines

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
UNC has apparently rethought their options. Duke officials are aware of the situation and are livid. Duke contacted B12 this morning






Lol poor Duke. Thinking that the Big 12 will take them lol

[GoMuskies]

I want this all to be true. Death to the ACC!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Older article from 3 days ago:

St Johns, Georgetown possibly leaving BE for the ACC

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/conference-realignment-store-st-john-rutgers-article-1.1203850#ixzz2ClqILoFb

Sounds like they are exploring all their options. We'll see if ACC wants non football teams to join

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

'SEC will add NC State and VT'

http://outkickthecoverage.com/the-sec-and-big-ten-will-have-16-members.php


MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Add St Johns to the list of BE schools jumping. Trying to get in the ACC as a package deal with The Hoyas.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Latest word from Bowlsbys office: super conferences are imminent. We have options. .

[xudash]

UC's president sent out a letter to alumni and its the first time they haven't mentioned being committed to the Big East. So pretty much, as much shit as possible is being thrown with the hopes of sticking to someones wall.

On a side note, many in the Big 12 camps say the conference is taking a wait and see approach because FSU/Clemson are the ultimate prize and UC/Louisville will always be there to fall back on if necessary.

IMHO, an utterly ridiculous approach. Hey, let's be reactive. We'll pick up the pieces after all the premium stuff has been taken. In a world that is driven by television-generated dollars, how do you sit on FSU/Clemson, believing that UL/UC is a viable fallback position?

I guess it's getting UL/UC at a deep discount or something.......

[outsideobserver11]

IMHO, an utterly ridiculous approach. Hey, let's be reactive. We'll pick up the pieces after all the premium stuff has been taken. In a world that is driven by television-generated dollars, how do you sit on FSU/Clemson, believing that UL/UC is a viable fallback position?

I guess it's getting UL/UC at a deep discount or something.......

Completely agree, if you have to take UC/UL at the end of the day then so be it. But at least go out there and try to get the cream of the crop first.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

IMHO, an utterly ridiculous approach. Hey, let's be reactive. We'll pick up the pieces after all the premium stuff has been taken. In a world that is driven by television-generated dollars, how do you sit on FSU/Clemson, believing that UL/UC is a viable fallback position?

I guess it's getting UL/UC at a deep discount or something.......

To be fair, I bet he's just saying what is politically correct at the moment(to the Big East). I'd have a hard time believing UC, USF, UConn or UL are doing anything but lobbying every conference that will listen. Any school not named FSU/VT that sits back and is reactive will be big time losers in re-alignment

[xudash]

To be fair, I bet he's just saying what is politically correct at the moment(to the Big East). I'd have a hard time believing UC, USF, UConn or UL are doing anything but lobbying every conference that will listen. Any school not named FSU/VT that sits back and is reactive will be big time losers in re-alignment

Another key point from the article is about logical geography - - going into truly new markets, not picking up teams from states in which a conference already has a presence. So, the B12 knows that FSU and Clemson have no viable options, because the SEC won't take them due to this geographical point. Otherwise, those two schools don't make sense to the B1G, and the PAC12 probably couldn't find them on a map if they had to.

[paulxu]

Dash, the Outkick the Coverage article on money and geography was great.
But lets say the Big 4 keep shaking and stirring until they are happy.
And Big 10, SEC and Big 12 got to 14 or 16, and the Pac 12 to 14 maybe.

Then they have conference championship games to pick their representative to the 4 team playoff system.

How the hell does ND fit into that? Will they end up in the Big 12 as the crapped on the Big 10?

[xudash]

Dash, the Outkick the Coverage article on money and geography was great.
But lets say the Big 4 keep shaking and stirring until they are happy.
And Big 10, SEC and Big 12 got to 14 or 16, and the Pac 12 to 14 maybe.

Then they have conference championship games to pick their representative to the 4 team playoff system.

How the hell does ND fit into that? Will they end up in the Big 12 as the crapped on the Big 10?

My guess is as follows:

Similar to the existing BCS agreement, parameters/performance thresholds will be established for ND as an independent that will directly determine where ND ends up every year in terms of positioning for the major bowls and the playoff system. Recall that we just read that the other side of the Orange Bowl - the side opposing the ACC candidate (IF THE ACC IS STILL AROUND!) - involves a solution that includes either an SEC team, B1G team or ND, depending upon performance and pecking order each season. Overall, should ND remain independent, it probably has to win a minimum of y games and have a ranking of .xxx in order to sniff the treasure chest - - a BCS bowl and/or the playoff system.

Now, with that noted, who has the most leverage: the Big4, who will most certainly not give a rat's ass about ND in the event ND holds to its independent status, or the networks, who will value ND's participation to some degree? The forces that define that leverage should help determine the parameters/performance thresholds under which ND would have to operate as an independent.

Will the Big4 be forceful about it? You decide. Notre Dame just begins to settle into the idea of becoming a quasi-hybrid member of the ACC when Jim Delaney turns his battleship broadside and fires his main turrets into that conference. Nothing like a lover scorned. I believe they'll make it very, very hard for ND to play in the golden sandbox. Conversely, should ND remain independent, it will still have a defined path (access) to the playoff system, which beats the hell out of how the remaining BE football schools will be positioned in their soon to be newly minted, subordinated status.

ND's timing for having a good year this season means little in all this, because it isn't about the other 64 wanting ND to do well anyway, assuming ND stays independent. My guess is that it ends up as a 64+1 format, which, I must say, is a tribute to Notre Dame. They get that much, but they'll be like salmon swimming upstream into the mouths of grizzly bears as far as making the playoff is concerned. What I mean by that is that they'll have to continue to have years that involve Pitt field goal kickers missing dagger-oriented kicks; there will be no room for slip ups, unlike the room that the SEC is establishing - has established - for itself.

[BMoreX]

BTW, Rutgers to the Big Ten is official.

[paulxu]

I'm just puzzled by how the big 4 conferences would ever let a 5th conference winner, or independent ND, into the playoffs down the rode.
Unless you have some sort of play-in game format, or it goes to 8, I can't see the big 4 buying it.
They play a whole year. They each have 2 divisions. The division winners meet for the conference champhionship games (lots of big bucks TV there).

So the 4 conference winners are standing there ready to go to the last 2 bowls, the winners who go on to the very last bowl for the NC.

Wait! ND had a great record. It had a great year. Which one of you 4 guys would like to bow out and let the Irish take your place?

Seriously?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

BTW, Rutgers to the Big Ten is official.

There are just too many rumors to keep up....

FSU:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the Big 10

Clemson:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

Miami:
-Going to the Big 12
-Staying in the ACC

VT:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the SEC

UNC:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 10

Duke:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

GT:
-Going to the Big 10
-Going to the Big 12
-Staying in the ACC

BC:
-Going to the Big 10
-Staying in the ACC

USF:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the ACC

UConn:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC

Louisville:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

Cincinnati:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

NC State:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC

Boise State:
-Going to the Pac 12
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Mountain West

Houston:
-Going to Conference USA
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Big 12

SDSU:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Pac 12
-Going to the MWC

BYU:
-Staying independent
-Going to the Pac 12
-Going to the MWC

Virginia:
-Going to the Big 10
-Staying in the ACC

Georgetown:
-Going to the ACC
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the Atlantic 10

St Johns:
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the ACC

Villanova:
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Atlantic 10




Did I get them all?

[_LH]

There are just too many rumors to keep up....

FSU:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the Big 10

Clemson:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

Miami:
-Going to the Big 12
-Staying in the ACC

VT:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the SEC

UNC:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 10

Duke:
-Staying in the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

GT:
-Going to the Big 10
-Going to the Big 12
-Staying in the ACC

BC:
-Going to the Big 10
-Staying in the ACC

USF:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Big 12
-Going to the ACC

UConn:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC

Louisville:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

Cincinnati:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Big 12

NC State:
-Going to the SEC
-Staying in the ACC

Boise State:
-Going to the Pac 12
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Mountain West

Houston:
-Going to Conference USA
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Big 12

SDSU:
-Staying in the Big East
-Going to the Pac 12
-Going to the MWC

BYU:
-Staying independent
-Going to the Pac 12
-Going to the MWC

Virginia:
-Going to the Big 10
-Staying in the ACC

Georgetown:
-Going to the ACC
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the Atlantic 10

St Johns:
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the ACC

Villanova:
-Staying in the BE
-Going to the ACC
-Going to the Atlantic 10




Did I get them all?

Lots of rumors for sure. I hope the next actual move is UCONN to the ACC. I wish the B12 would take Louisville and BYU. I then of course wish the remaining BE football schools leave the BE to go back to the MAC and CUSA or look to form a brand new league, leaving the BE bball only schools with the keys to the BE.

[xavierj]

I would think they will go to a 12 or 16 team playoff at some point and play for a true championship. The bowl scenario is outdated and outside of a few bowls, no one really cares. Seriously the way they are going with huge mega conferences and with a +1 system about 4 teams each year will have any hopes of winning it all after the first few weeks of the year. Notre Dame can just sit back and watch all of the other teams beat each other up and play the schedule they want. They can also sell that to recruits.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
My source just texted me that VT and NCST both had administrators meet with Slive and SEC reps today.

[xavierj]

The people running these large athletic programs are like the drunk guy at the bar that thinks they have to go home with someone so they settle with the ugly fat chick only to regret it later.

[GoMuskies]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
My source just texted me that VT and NCST both had administrators meet with Slive and SEC reps today.

I wonder if the SEC just wanted NC State to talk to UNC for them.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I'm told that Swofford will be making a special trip to Blacksburg and Charlottesville today or tonight.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Also hearing That Jurich has told his coaches that an ACC invite is coming but not before Uconn. And the B12 may offer soon as well.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MikeT198 Uconn announcement may not happen until next week but the votes are there. Swofford knows more defections coming. Has UL in que

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
MWC/BE merger with the service academies and BYU?? Apparently it's not so far fetched and is currently being discussed by a desperate BE

The Oklahoma AD believes realignment "may not be over". He's a little late to the game
buzztap.com/link.jsp?id=181670...rce=twitterfeed

Idaho statesman writer
Brian Murphy ‏@murphsturph
Ville/Pitt/Clem/FSU/Miami/+1 to Big 12; Duke/UNC/UVa./GT to B1G; VT/NCSU to SEC. Leftovers combine with BE. Who blinks first?

[outsideobserver11]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I'm told that Swofford will be making a special trip to Blacksburg and Charlottesville today or tonight.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Also hearing That Jurich has told his coaches that an ACC invite is coming but not before Uconn. And the B12 may offer soon as well.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MikeT198 Uconn announcement may not happen until next week but the votes are there. Swofford knows more defections coming. Has UL in que

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
MWC/BE merger with the service academies and BYU?? Apparently it's not so far fetched and is currently being discussed by a desperate BE

The Oklahoma AD believes realignment "may not be over". He's a little late to the game
buzztap.com/link.jsp?id=181670...rce=twitterfeed

Idaho statesman writer
Brian Murphy ‏@murphsturph
Ville/Pitt/Clem/FSU/Miami/+1 to Big 12; Duke/UNC/UVa./GT to B1G; VT/NCSU to SEC. Leftovers combine with BE. Who blinks first?

Wouldn't that give the Big ten 18 teams though?

[xudash]

I'm just puzzled by how the big 4 conferences would ever let a 5th conference winner, or independent ND, into the playoffs down the rode.
Unless you have some sort of play-in game format, or it goes to 8, I can't see the big 4 buying it.
They play a whole year. They each have 2 divisions. The division winners meet for the conference champhionship games (lots of big bucks TV there).

So the 4 conference winners are standing there ready to go to the last 2 bowls, the winners who go on to the very last bowl for the NC.

Wait! ND had a great record. It had a great year. Which one of you 4 guys would like to bow out and let the Irish take your place?

Seriously?

That's my point. They'll set it up where, assuming you are dealing with 2 one loss teams and one of them is ND and the other is a Big4 school and there is one slot left for one of them, it's pretty safe to conclude that the relative strength of the Big4 school - the .xxx - is going to be greater than ND's strength.

It's going to be interesting to see how scheduling works out now amongst the titans of the game. It's going to be interesting to see how the Big4 programs react to opportunities to schedule Notre Dame if the 64+1 format comes through. I believe the high-tradition game remains: ND/USC. Will Michigan stick with it? Probably. Schedules have been mapped out already for years in advance, so it may not be a big issue anyway, but I imagine more pressure will be on ND moving forward to put together a schedule that produces a weighted ranking that can keep them in the mix, assuming they're winning.

[SM#24]

[/B]

Wouldn't that give the Big ten 18 teams though?
16, 18, 20 does it make a difference ?
For football, two nine team divisions, play your own divison once (4H, 4A), then a championship game.
For basketball, play everyone once, and one team twice. 18 conf games.

[MCXU]

Wow...

This is getting very confusing. Someone who is following this let me know if what follows is reasonable to expect.

1) ACC should be offering UCONN a spot. Possibility it could be Louisville.

2a) Big 10 has its sights on UNC and Virginia to get to 16.

2b) SEC has its sights on Virginia Tech and N.C. State to get to 16.

If the above happens I see 2 Conferences dictating what happens next, the PAC 12 and the BIG 12, depending on who blinks first.

SCENERIO 1: PAC 12 MOVES FIRST

If the above is likely to happen and the 16 team conference is coming sooner rather than later, the conference that interests me is the PAC 12. The reason for that is they are smart enough to look around west of the Mississippi and see that they need 4 more schools with the following criteria.

1) Huge media markets that are not currently in there footprint
2) Huge football fan base that donates $.
3) Large research grants
4) Academics that don't embarass the league.

Thats a pretty small list of schools that fit that criteria.
It is my feeling that the PAC 12 is strongly going to push to capture the Texas and Oklahoma markets with the conditions of those state legislatures that they bring with them Oklahoma State and either Texas Tech or Baylor, Bringing the PAC 12 to 16. Should this happen it will all but destroy the BIG 12.

SCENERIO 2: BIG 12 MOVES FIRST

Currently at 10 schools I could see the Big 12 expanding in 2 seperate directions.

Direction 1: South East expansion by grabbing Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson. This gets most of the media in Florida as well as the Atlanta and some South Carolina media.

Direction 2: Northeast linking West Virginia by adding Louisville and Pittsburgh (assuming UNC, VT, NCST and UVA have bolted for BIG 10 and SEC, Pittsburgh may be looking to jump the ACC) If not Pittsburgh possibly UC.

***Please note that none of this will now happen since I posted it.***

[xudash]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
I'm told that Swofford will be making a special trip to Blacksburg and Charlottesville today or tonight.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Also hearing That Jurich has told his coaches that an ACC invite is coming but not before Uconn. And the B12 may offer soon as well.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MikeT198 Uconn announcement may not happen until next week but the votes are there. Swofford knows more defections coming. Has UL in que

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
MWC/BE merger with the service academies and BYU?? Apparently it's not so far fetched and is currently being discussed by a desperate BE

The Oklahoma AD believes realignment "may not be over". He's a little late to the game
buzztap.com/link.jsp?id=181670...rce=twitterfeed

Idaho statesman writer
Brian Murphy ‏@murphsturph
Ville/Pitt/Clem/FSU/Miami/+1 to Big 12; Duke/UNC/UVa./GT to B1G; VT/NCSU to SEC. Leftovers combine with BE. Who blinks first?

How do you allow yourself to be quoted like this! Everybody must envision this guy wearing oily overhauls with a pet pig in his office.

[xudash]

PA - THET - IC:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2012/11/when-it-comes-to-ucs-athletic.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-11-21&page=2

Look at these numbers:

Athletic department revenue:

Louisville: $87.7 million
Connecticut: $63.0 million
South Florida: $43.9 million
Cincinnati: $37.4 million


Football revenue:

Louisville: $25.7 million
Rutgers: $19.2 million
Connecticut: $17.5 million
South Florida: $17.0 million
Cincinnati: $13.4 million


Men’s basketball revenue:

Louisville: $40.9 million
Connecticut: $7.9 million
Cincinnati: $5.9 million
South Florida: $4.7 million
Rutgers: $4.2 million

Wow. I knew UC was at the bottom of the totem pole, but ouch.

[SM#24]

My guess is that the remainder of Total Athletic revenue less football and basketball must be donations or general sponsorships becuse I can't imagine all the other sports bringing in $1m much less $20m.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Joe Schad ‏@schadjoe
What's fueling continued conference realignment? One high-ranking school official said: "It's 35 percent fear. And 65 percent greed."

Mark Ennis ‏@Mengus22
UConn athletic director Warde Manuel sounds just as uncertain about an ACC invitation as the UofL brass. http://courantblogs.com/uconn-women/uconn-ad-warde-manuel-update-on-big-east-acc-big-ten-rosters/

Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith
Sounds as though ACC is heavily leaning towards selecting UCONN as 14th team - Ga Tech, FSU & Clemson have all voiced their objections

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Check this out.. the first official leak from WVU: "Florida State and Clemson being the desired options of the league".

[xudash]

Joe Schad ‏@schadjoe
What's fueling continued conference realignment? One high-ranking school official said: "It's 35 percent fear. And 65 percent greed."

Mark Ennis ‏@Mengus22
UConn athletic director Warde Manuel sounds just as uncertain about an ACC invitation as the UofL brass. http://courantblogs.com/uconn-women/uconn-ad-warde-manuel-update-on-big-east-acc-big-ten-rosters/

Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith
Sounds as though ACC is heavily leaning towards selecting UCONN as 14th team - Ga Tech, FSU & Clemson have all voiced their objections

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Check this out.. the first official leak from WVU: "Florida State and Clemson being the desired options of the league".

I love your posts.

I'd say they have the fuel mix ratio about right for conference realignment, but with the ratio soon to begin sliding from here as the pickings become slimmer and slimmer.

GA Tech, FSU and Clemson objecting to UConn makes sense, assuming they are hedging their bets (ACC survival) and view UL as the school having more potential with respect to sports, rather than worrying about TV market and academic reputation. Those schools know the ACC isn't going to catch any of the Big4 in television money, so what is the value of UConn over UL at the increment, as compared to the other factors they believe are more important to the ACC's survival at this point.

Seriously, as we sit here on Thanksgiving Eve, who in their right mind can't see the eventual exit of FSU and Clemson from the ACC.

[BMoreX]

http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/ProJo/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=VFBKLzIwMTIvMTEvMjI.&pageno=Mjk.&entity=QXIwMzAwNw..&view=ZW50aXR5


here are four all-sports members remaining in the current Big East. Rutgers (headed to the Big Ten) announced this week that it was following in the footsteps of Pittsburgh and Syracuse (ACC) and leaving the conference. Connecticut, Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida remain as present members with full voting rights, with Temple gaining that status in July. Plans are to inject six new football schools into the mix for next season, but those schools won’t become voting members until July. This week’s move by Rutgers and Maryland to the Big Ten has cast some doubt over the Big East’s expansion designs and also raised speculation that the seven Catholic, basketball-centric Big East schools could be nearing a “tipping point” due to the instability on the football side.

Representatives of some of those seven schools said this week that the tipping point would be reached if either Connecticut or Louisville heads to another league. Such a loss would be infinitely more important to the basketball schools than Rutgers leaving, because it would further erode an already badly damaged basketball core.

Losing a UConn or Louisville would also give the basketball schools the opportunity to engineer an unprecedented power play and vote to dissolve the league. According to the Big East’s bylaws, the conference can be dissolved by a two-thirds vote of all members. The seven basketball schools, which include Providence College, would own that voting advantage over three all-sports members (Cincinnati, South Florida and either UConn or Louisville). That voting edge would disappear in July, when new members Central Florida, Houston, Memphis and SMU come onboard.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
NBC BigEast talks have ceased and as of 8 am all conference funds will be frozen

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy this will mark the beginning of NCAA fb and bball splitting into two different entities. In the sense of conferences as we know

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy no. Fb schools will. Hoops will raid A10 and form a new league.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy and u may see some MWC teams in the new hoops conference if the credits transfer

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy put it this way. If Uconn not invited to ACC by Jan 1st. I'll stop tweeting for 6 months

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
If the ACC starts to become the Titanic and the exit fees do not hold, ND will head North.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Which means we may have a chess match on our hands once the SEC makes their final move

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@mdills not likely. BSU, SDSU, and BYU have helped spearhead a safety net for remaining BE schools with MWC. Even Temple

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Bowlsby teleconference with Slive today. Should have some word on it later

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@TomKleeh not saying anyone trusts the other implicitly or anything but Slive gads assured us FSU is not part of their plan

[xudash]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
NBC BigEast talks have ceased and as of 8 am all conference funds will be frozen

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy this will mark the beginning of NCAA fb and bball splitting into two different entities. In the sense of conferences as we know

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy no. Fb schools will. Hoops will raid A10 and form a new league.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@MSpellacy and u may see some MWC teams in the new hoops conference if the credits transfer

........

How cow!

This is what settles it for me: you can't get around a negotiating table to work out a television deal for an entity that is in such chaos, where the chaos is clearly leading to the degradation of that entity.

If they've frozen conference funds, it should be a matter of time.

[xudash]

I'm not going to start a new thread yet about what a new league could look like, but I believe we're getting close to the point where realignment will affect Xavier.

Virtually everything I've read, from articles to fan reactions on message boards, notes Xavier as being the top pick for joining with the BE hoops schools.

On that note, I'll build this from the core on out:

BE Hoops Schools:

- Georgetown
- Villanova
- St. Johns
- Marquette
- Providence
- Seton Hall
- DePaul

Primary Addition:

- Xavier

Secondary Additions:

- Richmond
- Butler

If it makes more sense to go to a 12 team configuration, then add:

- Dayton
- VCU

Why?

1. It avoids the pure "Catholic League" connotation, which appears to bother a lot of people for some reason.

2. If it holds at a 10 team configuration, Richmond and Butler allow us the opportunity to dump Dayton into perpetual second-class status and otherwise would allow us to only have to put up with their non-sense once per season, assuming we're still willing to play them (snide font is on).

3. BE brand is retained with all its advantages, including MSG for the tournament (I'm assuming the hoops schools retain the brand).

4. Importantly, as much as anyone may believe we're trading some dregs for others, it is fact that DePaul has potential and is in the third most important media market in the U.S., versus having to continue to be aligned with truly crappy schools like LaSalle (no fan support, terrible facility, no money to do anything about Gola, redundant market coverage) and Fordham (terrible facilities solution with no plan for correcting it and redundant market coverage).

5. Any further movement to get to a television-driven national hoops conference would be driven by this group.

[Juice]

I'm not going to start a new thread yet about what a new league could look like, but I believe we're getting close to the point where realignment will affect Xavier.

Virtually everything I've read, from articles to fan reactions on message boards, notes Xavier as being the top pick for joining with the BE hoops schools.

On that note, I'll build this from the core on out:

BE Hoops Schools:

- Georgetown
- Villanova
- St. Johns
- Marquette
- Providence
- Seton Hall
- DePaul

Primary Addition:

- Xavier

Secondary Additions:

- Richmond
- Butler

If it makes more sense to go to a 12 team configuration, then add:

- Dayton
- VCU

Why?

1. It avoids the pure "Catholic League" connotation, which appears to bother a lot of people for some reason.

2. If it holds at a 10 team configuration, Richmond and Butler allow us the opportunity to dump Dayton into perpetual second-class status and otherwise would allow us to only have to put up with their non-sense once per season, assuming we're still willing to play them (snide font is on).

3. BE brand is retained with all its advantages, including MSG for the tournament (I'm assuming the hoops schools retain the brand).

4. Importantly, as much as anyone may believe we're trading some dregs for others, it is fact that DePaul has potential and is in the third most important media market in the U.S., versus having to continue to be aligned with truly crappy schools like LaSalle (no fan support, terrible facility, no money to do anything about Gola, redundant market coverage) and Fordham (terrible facilities solution with no plan for correcting it and redundant market coverage).

5. Any further movement to get to a television-driven national hoops conference would be driven by this group.

What are the advantages of having Richmond over VCU? I see it simply as VCU being the bigger school in Richmond and therefore more desirable over a small private institution.

[MCXU]

I'm not going to start a new thread yet about what a new league could look like, but I believe we're getting close to the point where realignment will affect Xavier.

Virtually everything I've read, from articles to fan reactions on message boards, notes Xavier as being the top pick for joining with the BE hoops schools.

On that note, I'll build this from the core on out:

BE Hoops Schools:

- Georgetown
- Villanova
- St. Johns
- Marquette
- Providence
- Seton Hall
- DePaul

Primary Addition:

- Xavier

Secondary Additions:

- Richmond
- Butler

If it makes more sense to go to a 12 team configuration, then add:

- Dayton
- VCU

Why?

1. It avoids the pure "Catholic League" connotation, which appears to bother a lot of people for some reason.

2. If it holds at a 10 team configuration, Richmond and Butler allow us the opportunity to dump Dayton into perpetual second-class status and otherwise would allow us to only have to put up with their non-sense once per season, assuming we're still willing to play them (snide font is on).

3. BE brand is retained with all its advantages, including MSG for the tournament (I'm assuming the hoops schools retain the brand).

4. Importantly, as much as anyone may believe we're trading some dregs for others, it is fact that DePaul has potential and is in the third most important media market in the U.S., versus having to continue to be aligned with truly crappy schools like LaSalle (no fan support, terrible facility, no money to do anything about Gola, redundant market coverage) and Fordham (terrible facilities solution with no plan for correcting it and redundant market coverage).

5. Any further movement to get to a television-driven national hoops conference would be driven by this group.

The biggest Lesson I have learned from this whole mess is that adding a school is easy, getting rid of them is nearly impossible. If the 7 big east schools break off I wouldn't be opposed to just Xavier and Dayton (I have always heard they are a package deal, not sure if this is true) joining that league to bring it to 9. 9 is a great number for a conference and those base 9 schools would all be in different media markets and have good sized arenas (potentially).

Moving forward from there you can add teams slowly and only if they meet certain strict requirements.

1) New media market that benefits the league
2) Quality program that has a proven track record of commitment to Basketball
3) Good fan base and following in your market.

[xudash]

What are the advantages of having Richmond over VCU? I see it simply as VCU being the bigger school in Richmond and therefore more desirable over a small private institution.

Fair point. I went with Richmond, because it is private - more aligned in that regard with the other schools with which it would be a conference mate - and it has demonstrated that it can get to the Dance. It has the money to remain relevant.

Otherwise, VCU makes perfect sense.

[bigdiggins]

The biggest Lesson I have learned from this whole mess is that adding a school is easy, getting rid of them is nearly impossible. If the 7 big east schools break off I wouldn't be opposed to just Xavier and Dayton (I have always heard they are a package deal, not sure if this is true) joining that league to bring it to 9. 9 is a great number for a conference and those base 9 schools would all be in different media markets and have good sized arenas (potentially).

Moving forward from there you can add teams slowly and only if they meet certain strict requirements.

1) New media market that benefits the league
2) Quality program that has a proven track record of commitment to Basketball
3) Good fan base and following in your market.

Were they a package deal when Dayton went to the Great Midwest or whatever the he!! league that was? Screw Dayton, finish in the top four of the A10 and then talk about jumping to a new league. Butler and VCU both bring far more to the table than Dayton.

[xudash]

The biggest Lesson I have learned from this whole mess is that adding a school is easy, getting rid of them is nearly impossible. If the 7 big east schools break off I wouldn't be opposed to just Xavier and Dayton (I have always heard they are a package deal, not sure if this is true) joining that league to bring it to 9. 9 is a great number for a conference and those base 9 schools would all be in different media markets and have good sized arenas (potentially).

Moving forward from there you can add teams slowly and only if they meet certain strict requirements.

1) New media market that benefits the league
2) Quality program that has a proven track record of commitment to Basketball
3) Good fan base and following in your market.

I should be careful with my posts, because I'm trying to be serious, but while mixing a few digs in here and there (e.g. Dayton).

Because of your point 3 alone, Butler would concern me for the long term. Frankly, they have a terrible fan base and fan support for what they've accomplished. WHEN Stevens leaves, and assuming the replacement isn't all that, Butler could become problematic very quickly.

Dayton's problem - beyond its delusional fanbase - is its media market.

Finally, I believe Xavier and Dayton have proven that they're closely aligned, but, assuming things break a certain way, wherein there is only room for Xavier, Xavier will not counter with an ultimatum that it's both or nothing; Xavier will transition without Dayton at that point.

[MHettel]

Forget Dayton and VCU. Dayton is just to small of a market, and doesn't deserve to be in this discussion.

I'd go with St. Louis and Creighton. Like minded schools, solid facilities and commitment, and decent markets all things considered.

12 team league, 2 divisions:

East: Gtown, SJU, Nova, SHU, Providence, Richmond
West: Marq, Creight, DePaul, Butler, XU, SLU

Play each team in your division twice, play other division one game each. Thats 16 conference games, so you can load up with a couple extra non-con games where you can schedule a mix of winnable games and solid first rate matchups. Prop us the non-con schedule a bit...

[xudash]

Forget Dayton and VCU. Dayton is just to small of a market, and doesn't deserve to be in this discussion.

I'd go with St. Louis and Creighton. Like minded schools, solid facilities and commitment, and decent markets all things considered.

12 team league, 2 divisions:

East: Gtown, SJU, Nova, SHU, Providence, Richmond
West: Marq, Creight, DePaul, Butler, XU, SLU

Play each team in your division twice, play other division one game each. Thats 16 conference games, so you can load up with a couple extra non-con games where you can schedule a mix of winnable games and solid first rate matchups. Prop us the non-con schedule a bit...

Good points.

We absolutely should have learned the lesson about redundancy, so, assuming Richmond makes the cut, VCU isn't necessary, especially in a small market like Richmond.

Otherwise, true about Dayton. Whether they fill up the dump or not, their TV market doesn't cut it, and their resume is beyond lacking anyway.

St. Louis is a no-brainer, IMO. People can argue about Omaha and Creighton, but Omaha is an entirely new market and bigger than Dayton. That combined with Creighton as an institution and their fanbase, as well as the fact that they would add another Jesuit school, bundles up into a lot of sense.

[Juice]

What is the state of the Georgetown and whoever to the ACC as non-football members? Are those talks dead? That could really hurt the status of any new conference.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3‏@MHver3
BigEast basketball schools are trying to call an emergency meeting of presidents and ADs
MHver3‏@MHver3
My source says his Louisville contacts are saying this is the endgame.

MHver3‏@MHver3
Busy day...B12 expansion committee to hold its first meeting in a few months on Monday.

MHver3‏@MHver3
@drewjjones84 dissolution of the BE. ACC may change but will survive for sure.

Sporting News‏@sportingnews
Big East could dissolve, basketball schools create own league http://bit.ly/Uj2SFP



The Big East is fast approaching a “tipping point.” Not as the league we’ve come to know and love. But as a league, period.

Should Louisville and/or Connecticut leave the Big East, the seven basketball schools could well vote to dissolve the conference, according to The Providence Journal.

The Big East could dissolve, with schools like Marquette joining a basketball-centric league with other hoops powers. (AP Photo)

With dramatic instability on the football side in the wake of Rutgers’ pending move to the Big Ten and with Louisville and Connecticut believed to be actively seeking new conference homes, the seven Catholic basketball schools in the Big East could vote to leave the league en masse and create their own conference.

The simplest and cheapest method would be to dissolve the Big East. And the basketball schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John’s and Villanova -- have until July to exert control.

Big East bylaws state that the league can be dissolved with a two-thirds majority vote, and dissolution is the only way for each school to avoid the $10 million-$20 million exit fees.

With Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame and now Rutgers leaving the conference, there remains only four football schools (Louisville, UConn, Cincinnati and South Florida) with voting rights. Should another leave before July, that’d give the basketball schools the power to dissolve the league and create another basketball-centric conference without penalty.

Come July, though, new members Temple, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis and SMU would have voting rights and could block the move.

New commissioner Mike Aresco, who assumed the job in mid-August, is in the midst of negotiating a new TV contract now. Should he fail create an equitable deal for the basketball schools and keep UConn and Louisville in the in the fold, the much talked about mega-basketball league could become reality.

The Big East basketball schools are more willing to consider the concept now more than ever, according to The Journal.

The concept of the new basketball conference would include the seven Big East basketball castoffs plus some, if not all, of high-profile non-football schools such as Gonzaga, Saint Mary’s, Butler, Creighton, Xavier and Saint Louis.

[BMoreX]

That Sporting News article just seems like a re-hash of the Providence Journal one from a few days ago.

Either way, here's hoping it happens.

[xudash]

What is the state of the Georgetown and whoever to the ACC as non-football members? Are those talks dead? That could really hurt the status of any new conference.

IMO, the status of that is that it isn't dead, because it was never alive to begin with, nor does it have a chance of living. Whatever the ACC does, it will most likely continue to pursue an all-sports format.

[xudash]

"Big East bylaws state that the league can be dissolved with a two-thirds majority vote, and dissolution is the only way for each school to avoid the $10 million-$20 million exit fees."

Which allows Boise State, SDSU, et al to go back home for free.

[paulxu]

I think Gonzaga would be a stretch geographically...but I really like Creighton.

If a new Big E basketball league formed, and played their conf. championship at MSG, what would happen with the A10 contract with the Barley's place?

[xsteve1]

I'm not going to start a new thread yet about what a new league could look like, but I believe we're getting close to the point where realignment will affect Xavier.

Virtually everything I've read, from articles to fan reactions on message boards, notes Xavier as being the top pick for joining with the BE hoops schools.

On that note, I'll build this from the core on out:

BE Hoops Schools:

- Georgetown
- Villanova
- St. Johns
- Marquette
- Providence
- Seton Hall
- DePaul

Primary Addition:

- Xavier

Secondary Additions:

- Richmond
- Butler

If it makes more sense to go to a 12 team configuration, then add:

- Dayton
- VCU

Why?

1. It avoids the pure "Catholic League" connotation, which appears to bother a lot of people for some reason.

2. If it holds at a 10 team configuration, Richmond and Butler allow us the opportunity to dump Dayton into perpetual second-class status and otherwise would allow us to only have to put up with their non-sense once per season, assuming we're still willing to play them (snide font is on).

3. BE brand is retained with all its advantages, including MSG for the tournament (I'm assuming the hoops schools retain the brand).

4. Importantly, as much as anyone may believe we're trading some dregs for others, it is fact that DePaul has potential and is in the third most important media market in the U.S., versus having to continue to be aligned with truly crappy schools like LaSalle (no fan support, terrible facility, no money to do anything about Gola, redundant market coverage) and Fordham (terrible facilities solution with no plan for correcting it and redundant market coverage).

5. Any further movement to get to a television-driven national hoops conference would be driven by this group.

I'd add VCU over Richmomd, but this would be a great league. X would be able to rectruit at a real high level and you'd see X get guys like Dez and Semaj every year. Hope it happen in the next 6 months.

[xudash]

FWIW:

http://www.eersauthority.com/expansion-update-acc-on-the-brink/

[MCXU]

Why the Big East Basketball only schools should dissolve the league if given the chance.

When the madness is over and the music stops, these are the BCS Football schools who will likely not be receiving an invite to the Big 4.

Current BE and ACC teams

Louisville*** I think they will end up in the Big 12 along with one of the following 2 teams
Duke***
Pittsburgh***

Syracuse
Cincinnati
Temple
UConn
South Florida
Boston College
Wake Forest

All other ACC teams are being linked to one of the Big 4 in one way or another.

I think all of the above teams who do not go to the Big 12 will end up in the new ACC. They can't go to the new version of the Big East because they have been filling there vacancies with crap schools from 3 time zones away (brilliant reactionary move).

Why should Big East basketball schools care about this? Currently the Big 4 are selectively picking off the ACC and Big East teams one at a time. In the end this is what will be left, the problem is every time a Big East team gets plucked, the league immediately tries to replace that school with a school from thousands of miles away, who plays crappy basketball and has a football team (see Navy, UCF, Houston etc. etc.).

A few years down the road, none of the current football teams will be left, but they will have left a huge steaming turd laying in the Big East in the form of football schools who are crap in both football and basketball. The 7 basketball only schools will be stuck with a diluted basketball league and huge travel costs thanks to former football teams who selfishly invited bad schools so the football side of the house would remain afloat long enough to jump to the new version of the ACC.

From what I understand the Big 10 and PAC 12 are working together on this realignment as are the SEC and Big 12. Maybe the Big East and ACC need to start working together to save each other.

The possible new ACC listed above has the potential to be a decent football league (not Big 4 caliber, but better than the others) with great hoops. There is a base of 8 potential teams listed above so if they add Memphis and say Villanova who is trying to go D1 in football or UMASS, you now have your 10 team football league and a great basketball league. Maybe this is a league that is good enough to convince Notre Dame to stay on for Olympic sports.

Meanwhile the Big East basketball schools can focus on building a basketball league that includes schools that want to focus on basketball and not have to deal with the likes of UCF, Boise State, Houston, Navy etc. etc.

The Big East and ACC need to sit down and figure out the best way to make this happen, otherwise their fate will be determined by others who do not care about the future of the 2 leagues.

[Masterofreality]

FWIW:

http://www.eersauthority.com/expansion-update-acc-on-the-brink/

Well, if this is true, this could actually save the Big Least because Pitt, Cuse, Wake and Duke could move to go to the BE while ND reverts to BBall.

The fly in the ointment is the BCS Bowl declaration as to the minor conferences. I guess they could go back and negotiate.

[GoMuskies]

Well, if this is true, this could actually save the Big Least because Pitt, Cuse, Wake and Duke could move to go to the BE while ND reverts to BBall.

The fly in the ointment is the BCS Bowl declaration as to the minor conferences. I guess they could go back and negotiate.

I don't think the BCS would have any problem leaving Pitt, Cuse, Wake and Duke out in the cold.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Why wouldn't VT and NCST go to the SEC. They are being shown figures that almost double what they will get in the ACC. $35 million per year

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Dodds coming around to expanding again...Fox wants FSU, Clemson, GT, and Miami. Could fetch us an extra 4 mil per team plus CCG revenue

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Seems that FSU is getting impatient with Swofford and the ACC in general. Was told no by the SEC. B1G not likely. talking more w/B12 now

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@JSi07 @thedudeofwv GT is very much in B1G discussion but the B1G will not put a school on an island. They will take UVA UConn before UVA GT

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
@JSi07 @thedudeofwv the real question is: is 16 their endgame or 20? I'm hearing more and more it could be the latter if ND involved.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
BigEast will unfreeze accounts and meet on Monday. Aresco has been informed of at least 2 more schools intent to leave

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
And for the record, CBS didn't balk at Slives additions of TAMU and MU. They simply said. "it's great, now get 2 more"

[OTRMUSKIE]

According to the fine people over at bearcatnews, it's a done deal that UC, UL and UCONN are going to the ACC.
http://forums.bearcatnews.com/showthread.php?t=12445

[GoMuskies]

If UC's in, it means the ACC is about to fold/become irrelevant.

[BMoreX]

If that is true, you can guarantee the Big East Catholics will vote to disband football.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

According to the fine people over at bearcatnews, it's a done deal that UC, UL and UCONN are going to the ACC.
http://forums.bearcatnews.com/showthread.php?t=12445
they heard it from this reporter in Tallahassee who has since deleted the tweet:

@bricmiller Just heard from someone tied to Big East, Louisville to the ACC w/ Cincy, UConn to likely follow

It is interesting to see how fast these rumors catch on. Shortly after:

"@RiceRadio: I'm hearing Louisville, Cincy, and UConn to #ACC next year."

@jbrinkmeyer Wow, I just got quite the phone call. UConn, UC, and Louisville to join the ACC. To be announced Monday. #bearcats

@jbrinkmeyer: In that call I was told that FSU is the one who wanted to have all 3 invited.

BearcatLair.com‏@BearcatLair
Far from ready to report it, but this UC to the ACC rumor is coming at me from a lot of different directions right now. Crazy night.

--------

"ACC favors UConn, Louisville"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21057778/source-acc-favors-uconn-louisville-to-replace-maryland

MHver3‏@MHver3
In LOL news, Villanova tells the ACC they will move up to FBS if they will take them

MHver3‏@MHver3
Espn asks FSU what it will take to stay in the ACC. Answer: $25 million per year in tv money.

MHver3‏@MHver3
Never underestimate Swofford. But I think this time FSU is making demands it knows can't be met.

[LA Muskie]

I had a chance to talk with Mike Bobinski at length out here for the DirecTV Classic. Such a great, standup guy. He really is an outstanding ambassador for the school.

He didn't say anything we discussed was confidential, and I'm certainly not in the "club" that would be privy to such info, but I'm also not sure he'd want the info plastered onto a message board.

Suffice it to say that he believes "change is imminent" at all levels -- including the basketball-centric level -- that we "will be at the table" and that we will make any decisions we may have to make based on the best interests of the university. He also said that we've never been better situated -- athletically (beyond basketball), academically, or in terms of resources and infrastructure -- to have and take advantage of opportunities.

Based on our conversation I believe we are very likely to be playing basketball (and all other sports) against a new and improved set of conference opponents -- in essentially the top non-Big Four basketball conference in the country -- next few years.

PS: The rumors are true. Kansas jumped the gun but we are in fact switching from Puerto Rico to a ridiculously good Battle 4 Atlantis field in the Bahamas next year. See you there???

[xudash]

I had a chance to talk with Mike Bobinski at length out here for the DirecTV Classic. Such a great, standup guy. He really is an outstanding ambassador for the school.

He didn't say anything we discussed was confidential, and I'm certainly not in the "club" that would be privy to such info, but I'm also not sure he'd want the info plastered onto a message board.

Suffice it to say that he believes "change is imminent" at all levels -- including the basketball-centric level -- that we "will be at the table" and that we will make any decisions we may have to make based on the best interests of the university. He also said that we've never been better situated -- athletically (beyond basketball), academically, or in terms of resources and infrastructure -- to have and take advantage of opportunities.

Based on our conversation I believe we are very likely to be playing basketball (and all other sports) against a new and improved set of conference opponents -- in essentially the top non-Big Four basketball conference in the country -- next few years.

PS: The rumors are true. Kansas jumped the gun but we are in fact switching from Puerto Rico to a ridiculously good Battle 4 Atlantis field in the Bahamas next year. See you there???

Thank you very much for sharing that. I'm hopeful that MB sticks around to navigate us into that conference.

The ACC will morph into the top non-Big4 conference, with some former BCS schools transitioning away from their former royal classification (Schools like BC, Wake, etc.). They never truly were big-boy status. Either way, the ACC will remain an all-sports league, and certainly have a solid hoops product.

Otherwise, the BE returns to its hoops roots with Xavier being a member of it. Anyone wishing to remain in the A10 over what the BE will become should have their head examined. Among other advantages, we get to dump the garbage - LossSalle, Fordham and Duquesne, given that DU just can't seem to turn it around. Otherwise, God bless SBU, but they're just not positioned well for what's coming.

It's hard not to see what's coming at this point.

[xudash]

Trickle Down Conferences.

[Masterofreality]

Thank you very much for sharing that. I'm hopeful that MB sticks around to navigate us into that conference.

The ACC will morph into the top non-Big4 conference, with some former BCS schools transitioning away from their former royal classification (Schools like BC, Wake, etc.). They never truly were big-boy status. Either way, the ACC will remain an all-sports league, and certainly have a solid hoops product.

Otherwise, the BE returns to its hoops roots with Xavier being a member of it. Anyone wishing to remain in the A10 over what the BE will become should have their head examined. Among other advantages, we get to dump the garbage - LossSalle, Fordham and Duquesne, given that DU just can't seem to turn it around. Otherwise, God bless SBU, but they're just not positioned well for what's coming.

It's hard not to see what's coming at this point.

Whatever, just so SucKS isn't "royalty" status.

[xudash]

MOR,

I would think you would be happy.

Not only would UC lose its BCS status, but The YTG would have to face more competition, Duke being one example.

[LA Muskie]

The ACC will morph into the top non-Big4 conference, with some former BCS schools transitioning away from their former royal classification (Schools like BC, Wake, etc.). They never truly were big-boy status. Either way, the ACC will remain an all-sports league, and certainly have a solid hoops product.
I don't disagree. Our conference will not have football and it won't have anyone who plays FBS football or aspires to do so. Odds are that it will have the likes of Georgetown, St. John's, Marquette and Villanova (assuming they give up on any FBS intentions), but not Notre Dame or BC. I suspect the negotiating points will be over which dregs from Big East basketball and the A-10 get the call.

[xudash]

I don't disagree. Our conference will not have football and it won't have anyone who plays FBS football or aspires to do so. Odds are that it will have the likes of Georgetown, St. John's, Marquette and Villanova (assuming they give up on any FBS intentions), but not Notre Dame or BC. I suspect the negotiating points will be over which dregs from Big East basketball and the A-10 get the call.

I can virtually assure you that nova will not pursue D1A football. That ship has sailed.

[paulxu]

Current big 6 conference members 68; plus ND and maybe Boise (?) means 70 teams reducing to 64.
If the 4 conferences left don't include ACC and Big East, their 20 teams have to go somewhere or be left out in the cold:

SEC 14; adds Duke and UNC (although Duke's stadium only seats 33,000?) = 16 [Maybe will add NC State/VT instead? ]

Big 10: adds Ga. Tech and Maryland = 14; maybe adds ND and Rutgers = 16 [Added Maryland/Rutgers - now at 14; Tech out? ]

Big 12: adds Louisville, Va Tech, Clemson, Florida St, Virginia (?), and Miami (?) =16

Pac 12: adds Boise State and San Deigo St (?) = 14

So, the Pac 12 needs 2 more schools, and there are a bunch of BE/ACC schools left out, none of which make sense to add to the Pac 12:

BC, NC State (!), Wake, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, South Florida, Syracuse and Temple. (I'm ignoring recent BE additions).

The Big 12 and Big 10 may shuffle a few of their noted additions, but how do you get the Pac 12 to 16 teams?

I decided to repost this so I could try and keep up with all the possible changes.
If the BE guys meet on Monday, and the Big 12 decides to make some moves next week, this might become clearer.

A couple of things jump out:
1 - If the SEC expands footprint to North Carolina (State) and Virginia (Tech), UNC will be very unhappy to stay in some sort of crapped down ACC as a 5th conference. They have invested a lot of money to upgrade the football program

2 - If VaTech goes to SEC, who becomes 16th for Big 12. (Ga Tech?)

3 - If Ga Tech is not a good fit for Big 10 because not contiguous, will they try for UVA and leave a slot for ND?

4 - If crapped down ACC survives, and invites some of those Big East teams to join...BE basketball only schools should benefit from negotiated exit fees.

[Masterofreality]

“@apjoekay: 2 Mid-American Conference teams (NIllinois, KentSt) ranked in latest AP college football poll, no Big East teams.”

[waggy]

That might be more embarrassing for the AP.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Rumors circulating that UC, UL, USF and UConn will be added to the ACC.

Many UC fans believe UC and UL will be invited today or tomorrow

[_LH]

Rumors circulating that UC, UL, USF and UConn will be added to the ACC.

Many UC fans believe UC and UL will be invited today or tomorrow

I can see the ACC adding 1 of these 4 but not all 4 right now. Why would they?

[bleedXblue]

I can see the ACC adding 1 of these 4 but not all 4 right now. Why would they?

I heard UL only to replace Maryland to get back to 14

The addtional 3 would get them to 17 ?

Doesnt make sense

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I heard UL only to replace Maryland to get back to 14

The addtional 3 would get them to 17 ?

Doesnt make sense

Just the rumors. Mick Cronin made some hints the other night that sent the Bearcat blogosphere crazy. He Said "We are in the Big East, at least until Monday"

BearcatLair.com ‏@BearcatLair
Far from ready to report it, but this UC to the ACC rumor is coming at me from a lot of different directions right now. Crazy night.

@jbrinkmeyer: Wow, I just got quite the phone call UConn, UC, and Louisville to join the ACC. announced Monday

We'll see..... I would think UL would get the nod to the ACC before UC

[GoMuskies]

This is terrible news for the ACC if true. To me, it means UVA, VaTech, UNC, Clemson, Florida State and Georgia Tech are all out the door.

[_LH]

This is terrible news for the ACC if true. To me, it means UVA, VaTech, UNC, Clemson, Florida State and Georgia Tech are all out the door.

That is the only way I can see the ACC adding the 4 BE teams. That would make the new ACC, the old, new BE.

[coasterville95]

That's pretty much the common thread of what I have been hearing.

The cliff's notes version is that the ACC and the Big East now realize they are on the outside looking in. Therefore the ACC and the Big East are secretly in a deal to reposition both of their conferences. Take the best of Big East football, move it to the ACC to bolster the ACC and market that as the 5th power football conference to try to get back into the bowl picture.

The non -football schools (or what's left if they keep some of the lower tier football schools) will get to keep the Big East name, and the NCAA tournament auto bids in whatever sports they still field an appropriate number of teams. Then, just watch the conference carousels at our level start spinning as the new Big East replensihes itself by cherry picking the best non-BCS basketball schools to form a power basketball conferecne.

It would be nice if we were invited to that party.

The other scenario is the ACC and Big East still have secret meetings, and divide up the football schools amongst both conferences to form the two best leagues they can between them, the non-football schools get left out in the cold, and then leagues like the A10 compete for which of the best non-football former big east schools they can get.

At this point, I just want the rumors to die down and stuff to start happening. The rumored ACC press confernece today could go a long way in startign to provide clarity to the situation.

[Muskie]

I keep getting this nagging feeling that basketball is going to be ruined in favor of college football...

[coasterville95]

Not unfounded, I'm sure - since at most of the "power" schools, football is the primary revenue source (UK may be an exception).

I'm sure that basketball is an afterthought as the big 6 conferences (and the ACC and Big East in particular) get their houses together as they try to bolster themselves to get to the Orange Bowl and not the Toilet Bowl.

As they old saying goes, "Follow the money"

[xudash]

The ACC will pull football schools from the BE to shore itself up from the impending losses of FSU, Clemson, V Tech, etc. At that point, it simply becomes, or should become the top non-Big4 conference. The ACC and the MWC probably end up fighting over that last BCS slot year after year.

The BE conference morphs back into a basketball conference, becoming the premier non all-sports basketball conference, and the second best basketball conference outside of the Big4 - second to the ACC 2.0.

Football will not ruin or hurt basketball. The sea change that is happening is happening for football, though basketball will soon be affected with respect to conference shuffling as well. The CBS/TNT/TBS package is still there now and will remain. The NCAA Tournament is regarded as one of the marquee sporting events of the year. Xavier will continue to beat schools like Pitt, whether they reside in the BE, the ACC or somewhere else.

More to the point, recall that only about 16% of the football schools presently operate in a cashflow neutral or positive position. It's not like these recent maneuvers will fill the coffers of some of these schools such that they'll be able to go out and build hoops facilities like the ones that exist for Ohio State, UL, Whisky, and Maryland. Xavier will continue to rise in the sport, regardless of and thanks to this change, with the latter being attributed to our opportunity to align with schools like Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette over schools like LaSalle, Fordham and Duquesne. If the worst program in our league becomes DePaul, we will have fixed the last strategic program element: conference affiliation.

[GoMuskies]

I believe I read that the Orange Bowl is contractually bound to the ACC for 15 years. I know, contracts are made to be broken and all that, but if the ACC can keep some of its core (say it becomes Louisville, Cincinnati, BC, South Florida, Wake, Duke, Miami, NC State, Pitt and Syracuse), they may be able to hold onto that Orang Bowl bid (for dear life).

[DC Muskie]

Forget Dayton and VCU. Dayton is just to small of a market, and doesn't deserve to be in this discussion.

I'd go with St. Louis and Creighton. Like minded schools, solid facilities and commitment, and decent markets all things considered.

12 team league, 2 divisions:

East: Gtown, SJU, Nova, SHU, Providence, Richmond
West: Marq, Creight, DePaul, Butler, XU, SLU

Play each team in your division twice, play other division one game each. Thats 16 conference games, so you can load up with a couple extra non-con games where you can schedule a mix of winnable games and solid first rate matchups. Prop us the non-con schedule a bit...

I love reading stuff like this, whenever conference realignment comes up.

Dayton is too small of a market? And Omaha is decent?

Did you know that Dayton is actually the 64th largest market in the country? Probably not would be my guess. Omaha? 76. It's slightly larger than Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg market. You must be one of these people who looks at the electoral college and sees Oklahoma and Kansas covered in red and think that since there is a whole lot of space that must mean there are more people.

Xavier is not going to put itself in a position where more of their games will be played in the Midwest. Anybody noticing that one of the biggest conferences is moving towards the east? All of those people in Ohio are moving to North and South Carolina. They are moving to Virginia, and up and down the east coast. Xavier hates the fact we see less games on the east coast already. They aren't going to want to sign on to fewer.

Dismiss Dayton all you want for whatever reasons. I'd be shocked if we didn't end up as a pair.

Gtown
SJU
Nova
SHU
Providence
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Richmond

10 league up and down the east coast and Marquette, DePaul as the out-liners. Xavier fits in perfectly.

[LA Muskie]

I love reading stuff like this, whenever conference realignment comes up.

Dayton is too small of a market? And Omaha is decent?

Did you know that Dayton is actually the 64th largest market in the country? Probably not would be my guess. Omaha? 76. It's slightly larger than Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg market. You must be one of these people who looks at the electoral college and sees Oklahoma and Kansas covered in red and think that since there is a whole lot of space that must mean there are more people.

Xavier is not going to put itself in a position where more of their games will be played in the Midwest. Anybody noticing that one of the biggest conferences is moving towards the east? All of those people in Ohio are moving to North and South Carolina. They are moving to Virginia, and up and down the east coast. Xavier hates the fact we see less games on the east coast already. They aren't going to want to sign on to fewer.

Dismiss Dayton all you want for whatever reasons. I'd be shocked if we didn't end up as a pair.

Gtown
SJU
Nova
SHU
Providence
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Richmond

10 league up and down the east coast and Marquette, DePaul as the out-liners. Xavier fits in perfectly.

All of this makes sense. But I think you'll see a larger (and geographically broader) conference -- whether because of horse trading or common missions/philosophies/affiliations or, probably, a little bit of both.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I know this is a pipedream and about 8 million things would have to fall into place for this to happen, but I'd love to see a true East/West bball only conference.

EAST

GTown
Nova
X
Providence
Butler
St Johns
Seton Hall
Depaul
Marquette
VCU

WEST (Some WCC teams)

Gonzaga
St Mary's

etc


Add in some interconference divisional games and then a bad ass tourney would be nice. Looking at it now though the East would be much more stacked

[LA Muskie]

I have the same dream. I don't think it's crazy. For non-revenue sports (basically everything but basketball) regular season could be within division only, cutting down on travel. You are right that a lot of things would have to fall into place. One of those would have to be the willingness of schools like Marquette and Creighton (and others west of us) to play in the West division. I don't think there are 8-10 viable west coast candidates.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I have the same dream. I don't think it's crazy. For non-revenue sports (basically everything but basketball) regular season could be within division only, cutting down on travel. You are right that a lot of things would have to fall into place. One of those would have to be the willingness of schools like Marquette and Creighton (and others west of us) to play in the West division. I don't think there are 8-10 viable west coast candidates.

Agreed. I had trouble listing more than 2 off the top of my head...It'd be incredible exposure for the schools though in every major market around the country

[xudash]

I love reading stuff like this, whenever conference realignment comes up.

Dayton is too small of a market? And Omaha is decent?

Did you know that Dayton is actually the 64th largest market in the country? Probably not would be my guess. Omaha? 76. It's slightly larger than Paducah - Cape Girardeau - Harrisburg market. You must be one of these people who looks at the electoral college and sees Oklahoma and Kansas covered in red and think that since there is a whole lot of space that must mean there are more people.

Xavier is not going to put itself in a position where more of their games will be played in the Midwest. Anybody noticing that one of the biggest conferences is moving towards the east? All of those people in Ohio are moving to North and South Carolina. They are moving to Virginia, and up and down the east coast. Xavier hates the fact we see less games on the east coast already. They aren't going to want to sign on to fewer.

Dismiss Dayton all you want for whatever reasons. I'd be shocked if we didn't end up as a pair.

Gtown
SJU
Nova
SHU
Providence
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Richmond

10 league up and down the east coast and Marquette, DePaul as the out-liners. Xavier fits in perfectly.

It is fact that Xavier intends to retain and grow a strategic presence along the Eastern Seaboard.

Also, one interesting thing I've read somewhere, but cannot confirm, is that the metering/measuring organizations are going to start treating Cincinnati and Dayton as one big MSA for media purposes. Again, I don't know if that will come to pass, but a drive along I-75 between the two cities would make that seem logical. That would both hurt and help Dayton's cause in all this.

[xudash]

I know this is a pipedream and about 8 million things would have to fall into place for this to happen, but I'd love to see a true East/West bball only conference.

EAST

GTown
Nova
X
Providence
Butler
St Johns
Seton Hall
Depaul
Marquette
VCU

WEST (Some WCC teams)

Gonzaga
St Mary's

etc


Add in some interconference divisional games and then a bad ass tourney would be nice. Looking at it now though the East would be much more stacked

Even if all that could not be worked out under a single conference umbrella, they could lock down two distinct leagues and then heavily market in-season tournaments between them, so Xavier v. Gonzaga, etc. could still take place every season.

There could be a lot of ways to skin the cat from here, if they're creative enough and the TV numbers justify it.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Tony Basilio ‏@TonyBasilio
Cincy to the ACC... 3p press conf? WTFreak? U Conn & L-Ville to follow?

Anyone know who this guy is?

[xudash]

FWIW:

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/rumor-has-it-conference-realignment-has-fans-on-edge/

[danaandvictory]

Agreed. I had trouble listing more than 2 off the top of my head...It'd be incredible exposure for the schools though in every major market around the country

Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU are the vanguard of the WCC - although who knows what happens with the Mormons if they decide that independence is too risky in football. Although there have been a few other risers in the WCC -- Santa Clara and USD coming to mind recently -- the rest of the league is pretty meh. Probably lower half of the A-10 meh.

I do tend to think this ends up bigger than we expect and that it won't be the fabled "Catholic" conference and will include an A-10 style mix of state schools (VCU), Catholic institutions, and non-Catholic religious institutions.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Ryan Koslen ‏@Koz_UC
Reports of a 3 p.m. press conference or any announcement are both false and inaccurate.

There's our answer to the credibility of that one guy from Knoxville Tennessee

[waggy]

St. Mary's really has very little history of competing at a high level. As long as the staff with the Aussie connections is in place it'll be fine, but who knows after that. I'd be very surprised if they ever were able to build a new facility.