Conference carousel to start spinning again?

[paulxu]

Well, just so there's no confusion for us in South Carolina, on the off-chance that all this re-alignmnet crap could screw up the 103 year old tradition of the Gamecocks vs. Tigers if the ACC and SEC got too big...a state legislator has introduced a bill that would mandate the game be played every year.

[GoMuskies]

Not from anything close to a credible source, but I'm reading on Louisville message boards that the BYU to the Big 12 talk is picking up steam again.

[DC Muskie]

I would just like to add that the ACC is and has been terrible in football for many years. It's great that they are adding Pitt and Syracuse to become even worse.

Actually, adding Pitt at least should make the conference a little better. No it won't. Just terrible.

And the BE is turning itself into CUSA right before our eyes. It is trying to out worse the ACC, which will be a tremendous accomplishment if they pull it off.

[GoMuskies]

It is trying to out worse the ACC, which will be a tremendous accomplishment if they pull it off.

Once the ACC grabbed Syracuse off its hands, bringing in Memphis was the only possible way the Big East could keep pace in this race.

[xsteve1]

Pitino wants to stay in the Big East and as we all know Pitino usually gets his way.

[GoMuskies]

Pitino wants to stay in the Big East and as we all know Pitino usually gets his way.

We should expect Louisville to remain in the Big East for the next 15 seconds, then.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

We should expect Louisville to remain in the Big East for the next 15 seconds, then.


"Realignment creating wider separation between haves and have-nots"

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-02-08/big-east-memphis-realignment-bcs-louisville-to-big-12-title-game?eadid=EL/SICOM&xid=si_ncaaf

'Eventually, the Big 12 will move beyond 10 teams and add Louisville. A BCS source close to the situation told Sporting News the Big 12 is waiting for West Virginia’s lawsuit with the Big East to be resolved before moving forward. Despite the Big 12’s public comments, it doesn’t want to be the only major conference without a championship game—and doesn’t want to go much longer without the benefit of revenue the game brings'

[_LH]

If the ACC is so bad, how come every BE team goes there or would go there if they could?

[SixFig]

Gary Parrish @GaryParrishCBS

Memphis is stepping its recruiting game up. Just took a commitment from a kid who's been arrested at least twice. It's Big East time, son.

[bobbiemcgee]

This has been covered


In 224 pages most everything has been covered!

Apparently not.

[X-band '01]

And the BE is turning itself into CUSA right before our eyes. It is trying to out worse the ACC, which will be a tremendous accomplishment if they pull it off.

Either that, the old Metro conference, or the Great Midwest. Take your pick.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Take it for what its worth but a UL Scout message board guy is saying that the Big 12 and BYU/UL have reached a tentative deal

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=17&f=2759&t=8684981&p=1

[paulxu]

I posted some of this on the A10 board, and I'm never sure I understand who is going where. But, if Pitt/WVA/Syr are definitely gone from the BE, even if it takes a year or two, then this is what it looks like (I think):

If Rutgers and Conn are able to get the ACC to take them, you would have the Big East football schools as:

Boise
Cincinnati
Houston
Louisville
Memphis
San Diego St
SMU
South Fl
UCF
Navy

Exactly one school actually in the East...Navy.

This conference is a never-ending source of fun. Watch it go nuts when Louisville goes to the Big 12.

[LA Muskie]

Big East / WVU lawsuit settled for $$$ and early exit? Who'da thunk it?

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=7561213

[GoMuskies]

Big East / WVU lawsuit settled for $$$ and early exit? Who'da thunk it?

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=7561213

I guess they all decided there was too much risk in fighting this out in court.

One fun nugget in the story: Rutgers and Syracuse are apparently going to play a home and home next year. Bizarre times.

[xudash]

If the ACC is so bad, how come every BE team goes there or would go there if they could?

Perceived stability.

More money.

Deeper tradition.

[xudash]

Let's look at it with UConn and Rutgers still a part of it, which is the case:


UConn
Rutgers
Boise
Cincinnati
Houston
Louisville
Memphis
San Diego St
SMU
South Fl
UCF
Navy


Now pull out Louisville:


UConn
Rutgers
Boise
Cincinnati
Houston

Memphis
San Diego St
SMU
South Fl
UCF
Navy


What's the answer then: Temple, Marshall, ECU?

What is the TV value of all that?

When does this non-sense end?

[DC Muskie]

One fun nugget in the story: Rutgers and Syracuse are apparently going to play a home and home next year. Bizarre times.

In football? Holy cow.

[paulxu]

Dumb football is what this all is. Here's why.

I get that not so long ago teams may have travelled by bus. So, a 3 hour bus ride for a Saturday game is no worse than a 3 hour plane ride...or something like that.

But if your a Rutgers football fan, how many (if ANY) are getting on the damn plane to fly to San Deigo, or Boise, or central Florida for a game? About 6 or 7 people. It's nuts.

You may not like the SEC football programs, but each Saturday in the South, the roads are absolutely filled with fans headed for games all across the 8 connecting states (soon 10). Thousands and thousands of people going from Georgia to Florida, Alabama to Tenn, South Carolina to Alabama, Mississippi to Louisiana....well, you get the idea.

Their cars are covered in stuff, flags out the windows, headed for tailgate parties and pumping millions of dollars into the local economies of places like Oxford, and Tuscaloosa, and Baton Rouge. They come not just from the local city, but all over the state...and from the neighboring state of the rival.

I may be nuts, but a Big East from San Deigo to Florida I don't think will work. How many people from New Jersey are headed to Boise for a game?

Of course, I don't know how to explain the NFL, but I'm working on it.

[Masterofreality]

UCon (spelling intentional) will not be long for the Big Greased. They are still shopping themselves to whatever league will take them and still hoping for the ACC.

As long as scumbag Calhoun is still the basketball coach and until UCon decides to clean up their academic deficiencies, they are attractive to no one. Come to think about it, The Big Least is about the perfect place for them.

Memphis is abjectly horrible in football and, by the way, will continue to be. They have to recruit right in the middle of about 5 SEC schools. If you're a high level recruit, where are you going to go? Answer- Not Memphis.

Talk about a rogues gallery of football programs. I can't believe that Boise took the bait to play in that joke.

Welcome back Metro Conference!!!

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN

No Big 12 sked today. Is Louisville trying to come up with $20 mill?




West Virginia will move to Big 12 in July

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/sns-tsn-afn-big12-bigeast-wvirginia-20120210,0,1735042.story

[paulxu]

Matt Hayes @Matt_HayesSN

No Big 12 sked today. Is Louisville trying to come up with $20 mil

You know what's funny about that? For the last month I'm reading Mr. 15 talk about how much it will mean to him and the BE for Memphis to be in the league. And he may be playing in Lubbock next year.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

GoMuskies favorite guy Gregg Swaim is throwing around stuff left and right on twitter:

http://gregswaim.com/2012/02/weighing-in-on-big-12-expansion/#.Tzgu8PZYAQQ.twitter
--------

Matt Armstrong @zsstrong

@GSwaim sorry if you already answered.What did you make of the Louisville insider saying Louisville entry was conditional upon BYU entrance?

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

@zsstrong it's not, but they'll likely take 2-4 teams for 2013-14.

-------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@DoubleOakHorn: I hear if BYU comes, CU and FSU coming is dead." // Conversely if those two come, BYU and UL could at least be postponed.

-------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@dodgerjazzcougs: @GSwaim what should BYU fans be looking forward for tomorrow?" // Already gave the news. #BYU & #Big12 are still talking.

-------

Aaron Beagley @Cougarblitz84

@GSwaim just wondering if you got any feel for how positive BYU's negotiations were? Pretty neutral or more encouraging than that.

BigTime Sports BigTime Sports @GSwaim

@Cougarblitz84 Just talking for now, but very encouraging to know there's heavy interest on both sides.

--------

steelEERS @steelEERS1

@GSwaim @bYuknowitall why do these people doubt you? You had wvu big 12 from get go

BigTime Sports BigTime Sports @GSwaim

@steelEERS1 Had #Aggies & #Mizzou leaving when their local media said I was wrong also. I won't always be right, but I've been close so far.

---------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@bYuknowitall: @GSwaim anything that you are throwing sticking to the wall yet?" // just your mom.

-----------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@BearcatChad: @GSwaim out of curiosity what don't they like about #Bearcats" // I hear the TV ratings aren't as high for UC.

-----------

@GSwaim Posted article at GregSwaim.com where I predict #Big12 divisions w/ #BYU & L'Ville and annual crossover games."

-----------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@Jsportstthought: @GSwaim why would they want byu before UL?" // larger national following.

-----------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

"@LaSportsDude: @GSwaim #Bearcats no longer in consideration for the #Big12?" // not in top six. May be #7

------------

BigTime Sports @GSwaim

Rating the #Big12 wish list in order: #ND, #FSU, #Clemson, #BYU, #CardNation, #Rutgers, but the first three are much less likely to say yes.

[Porkopolis]

No name, but I propose something relating to frequent flyer miles.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7571596/mountain-west-c-usa-form-new-conference

[GoMuskies]

Not exactly a surprise, but WV to the Big XII is now officially official, as the Big East has called off the dogs.

[Muskie]

No name, but I propose something relating to frequent flyer miles.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7571596/mountain-west-c-usa-form-new-conference

So that league could have upwards of 18-24 teams?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Looks like Temple, Umass, and Charlotte are all being targeted by t hat new MWC/Cusa merger...

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the link
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/7577605/questions-new-mwc-c-usa-league Same link as Porkopolis's its just been updated

[bleedXblue]

Looks like Temple, Umass, and Charlotte are all being targeted by t hat new MWC/Cusa merger...

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the link
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/7577605/questions-new-mwc-c-usa-league Same link as Porkopolis's its just been updated

What a fu*$^%ng cluster.

If any A-10 schools bolt to this albatross, they're dumb.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

What a fu*$^%ng cluster.

If any A-10 schools bolt to this albatross, they're dumb.

Another speculation is Temple to the Big East(Granted thats been the speculation for quite some time)
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2012/02/west_virginias_departure_from.html

I think its a safe bet to say that Temple will be gone from the A10 pretty soon. Hopefully they will just leave the MAC in football and will stay in the A10 in bball. I guess we'll find out

[GoMuskies]

What a fu*$^%ng cluster.

If any A-10 schools bolt to this albatross, they're dumb.

I'm not sure why the new conference would be worse for any of them than the A-10. Especially if they have any football aspirations (which at least Charlotte does and Temple pretends to).

[bleedXblue]

I'm not sure why the new conference would be worse for any of them than the A-10. Especially if they have any football aspirations (which at least Charlotte does and Temple pretends to).

Lets see:

1. UMass playing Hawaii ??? This proposed conference covers the entire country

2. The quaility of both leagues is marginal....why leave one marginal conference for another ?

3. 18-24 teams ? There will be constant changes with a league of this size

4. At least the A-10 is on solid ground and has some history and uniformity.

5. Very few A-10 teams have big time football aspirations (Temple and who else ?)

[GoMuskies]

Lets see:

1. UMass playing Hawaii ??? This proposed conference covers the entire country

2. The quaility of both leagues is marginal....why leave one marginal conference for another ?

3. 18-24 teams ? There will be constant changes with a league of this size

4. At least the A-10 is on solid ground and has some history and uniformity.

5. Very few A-10 teams have big time football aspirations (Temple and who else ?)

1) They'd travel to Hawaii what, once every four years in every sport. That's not unusual even when Hawaii is not in your league.

2) Football

3) The A-10 has 14 teams, and is not exactly the picture of stability.

4) Bad recent history mostly, and uniformity isn't necessarily a good thing.

5) The teams talking about leaving are the ones with football aspirations. That's why they'd go.

[bleedXblue]

1) They'd travel to Hawaii what, once every four years in every sport. That's not unusual even when Hawaii is not in your league.

2) Football

3) The A-10 has 14 teams, and is not exactly the picture of stability.

4) Bad recent history mostly, and uniformity isn't necessarily a good thing.

5) The teams talking about leaving are the ones with football aspirations. That's why they'd go.

We can disagree then.

I just don't see why they would be attracted to such a mess. Just b/c you have football aspirations doesnt mean you get your meal ticket punched.

I don't disagree that they might be looking at their options, but if I'm an AD I wait for something that looks a little more stable and has a more compact geography.

[_LH]

It would make little sense for teams to join non BCS leagues, especially one the size of that.

[xudash]

It would make little sense for teams to join non BCS leagues, especially one the size of that.

I think it is what it is for these programs, given where they exist in the food chain. It isn't about improving their bowl posture; it's about getting as much juice into their conference as possible for improved television rights.

I'm not suggesting that what they're doing will achieve that goal, but that's what they've been left to drive for, given budgetary pressures on these schools.

[GoMuskies]

Frankly, if Charlotte truly has football ambitions, as a startup program I think being able to align with that group of schools would be a huge coup for them. ECU probably wouldn't be that pleased about it.

[Juice]

Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello
RT @PeteThamelNYT: Temple in talks to join Big East in all-sports. Decision expected by end of February. http://nyti.ms/wFknMY


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/sports/ncaafootball/temple-in-talks-to-join-big-east-in-all-sports.html?_r=2&ref=sports

Wonderful

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/sports/ncaafootball/temple-in-talks-to-join-big-east-in-all-sports.html?_r=2&ref=sports

Wonderful

The hits keep coming. Looks like they have one foot out hte door

[GoMuskies]

Can Temple please leave before the A-10 Tournament? Probably our only shot at winning it.

[GoMuskies]

Since geography no longer matters, here is my new proposed league (assuming we are not ending up in a league with current non-football members of the Big East and assuming Temple, UMass and Charlotte end up moving elsewhere for their own football related reasons):

St. Joe's - Stay in Philly; we want to keep east coast presence
Rhody - Good support; east coast; generally a solid program
GW - East coast; we want to stay in D.C.
Richmond - They've been a solid member
Xavier - Why else would I care about this league?
Dayton - I guess we're stuck with 'em
Butler - Solid program with good support for a long time now (obviously much beyond "solid" the last two years)
SLU - Good fan support. Great market. Finally good again.
Creighton - Great support. Great program. Decent market
Wichita State - Other than the fact that I live here....fantastic support. Decent market. Program on rise.

I know this has not chance of happening, but I am bored, and our league now seems in danger of crumbling (which is probably not the worst thing in the world if it frees us from LaSuck, Duquesne, Forham and St. Bonny).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Since geography no longer matters, here is my new proposed league (assuming we are not ending up in a league with current non-football members of the Big East and assuming Temple, UMass and Charlotte end up moving elsewhere for their own football related reasons):

St. Joe's - Stay in Philly; we want to keep east coast presence
Rhody - Good support; east coast; generally a solid program
GW - East coast; we want to stay in D.C.
Richmond - They've been a solid member
Xavier - Why else would I care about this league?
Dayton - I guess we're stuck with 'em
Butler - Solid program with good support for a long time now (obviously much beyond "solid" the last two years)
SLU - Good fan support. Great market. Finally good again.
Creighton - Great support. Great program. Decent market
Wichita State - Other than the fact that I live here....fantastic support. Decent market. Program on rise.

I know this has not chance of happening, but I am bored, and our league now seems in danger of crumbling (which is probably not the worst thing in the world if it frees us from LaSuck, Duquesne, Forham and St. Bonny).

Hell. Add Gonzaga and St Mary's at this point. Why not?

[GoMuskies]

Hell. Add Gonzaga and St Mary's at this point. Why not?

Let's try and be realistic here. :)

[BBC 08]

Let's try and be realistic here. :)

The BE said "F*** it" in regards to geography, why can't we?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Let's try and be realistic here. :)

The University of Pyongyang has been undefeated for decades according to Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un and have defeated UNC, Duke, UK, Kansas, Syracuse and Marquette during scrimmages in back to back to back to back to back to back games one night.

Get them in the league

[paulxu]

Since geography no longer matters, here is my new proposed league (assuming we are not ending up in a league with current non-football members of the Big East and assuming Temple, UMass and Charlotte end up moving elsewhere for their own football related reasons):

St. Joe's - Stay in Philly; we want to keep east coast presence
Rhody - Good support; east coast; generally a solid program
GW - East coast; we want to stay in D.C.
Richmond - They've been a solid member
Xavier - Why else would I care about this league?
Dayton - I guess we're stuck with 'em
Butler - Solid program with good support for a long time now (obviously much beyond "solid" the last two years)
SLU - Good fan support. Great market. Finally good again.
Creighton - Great support. Great program. Decent market
Wichita State - Other than the fact that I live here....fantastic support. Decent market. Program on rise.

I know this has not chance of happening, but I am bored, and our league now seems in danger of crumbling (which is probably not the worst thing in the world if it frees us from LaSuck, Duquesne, Forham and St. Bonny).

I like your idea, but of course would prefer the BE get it's act together and the BB schools split off and add some people like us.

The problem (I think) is a 10 school conference. You can't play everyone twice unless you lower your OC schedule (maybe not a good idea).

12 seems ideal with 2 divisions; play your division twice (10) and the other division once (6) for a 16 game schedule. Will be fun to watch what ACC does next year when they expand to 14. 16 teams in a conference also seems tough to arrange.

[GoMuskies]

The ACC is not expanding next year. That is at least one and maybe two years down the line.

[paulxu]

The ACC is not expanding next year. That is at least one and maybe two years down the line.

Well, WVA snuck out. I don't think it's completely crazy to think Syr/Pitt don't find a way out early too.

[GoMuskies]

Well, WVA snuck out. I don't think it's completely crazy to think Syr/Pitt don't find a way out early too.

As I understand it, the ACC doesn't want them (or won't be ready for them) early.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah, it's pretty much a done deal that Temple will be gone according to reports up here in the Northeast. Probably as early as next year.

Wouldn't be surprised to see UMass and Charlotte go too.

Great. That leaves us with an RPI killing league with F-M, LaSuck, Dookcane and Olean Welding Academy. St. Louis, udump, St. Joes, Richmond and us with sometimes Rhodee will be the only saving graces. GW is a wild card.

We can't dump the bad ones so the good ones leave.

[xudash]

Yeah, it's pretty much a done deal that Temple will be gone according to reports up here in the Northeast. Probably as early as next year.

Wouldn't be surprised to see UMass and Charlotte go too.

Great. That leaves us with an RPI killing league with F-M, LaSuck, Dookcane and Olean Welding Academy. St. Louis, udump, St. Joes, Richmond and us with sometimes Rhodee will be the only saving graces. GW is a wild card.

We can't dump the bad ones so the good ones leave.

Or, if ever there was a time to amend a crappy contract, this would be the time.

For: Xavier, St. Louis, UD, St. Joe's, Richmond, Duquesne, URI, and GW.

Against: LossSalle, FordHAM, Bonnies.

The Atlantic 8.

[Juice]

Or, if ever there was a time to amend a crappy contract, this would be the time.

For: Xavier, St. Louis, UD, St. Joe's, Richmond, Duquesne, URI, and GW.

Against: LossSalle, FordHAM, Bonnies.

The Atlantic 8.

Any possibility of stealing some CAA teams?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://thecardnation.com/2012/02/conference-realignment-update/

'Berry Tramel, a well known sports blogger, was on the Early Birds this morning, and he had some interesting things to say about Louisville and the Big 12. Here are some of the main points from Tramel:

-Louisville WILL be in the Big 12 by the 2013 season

-Most current Big 12 members are in favor of adding Louisville

-Football is the driving force behind realignment

-A solid basketball program is good to have, but it is not what conferences are looking for

-Big 12 should add Louisville to make a connection between West Virginia and the rest of the teams'

[paulxu]

"Recently, Louisville coach Rick Pitino said that he’d like to see current mid-majors Memphis and Temple join the Big East Conference, at least in basketball"

Suckers.


-Louisville WILL be in the Big 12 by the 2013 season

[GoMuskies]

-Louisville WILL be in the Big 12 by the 2013 season


I'm holding my enthusiasm until it DOES happen.

[xubrew]

Two really good games going on in the NEC right now. SFNY fell behind big to Quinnipiac, but came back. Just down the street, top seeded LIU is letting Sacred Heart hang around. If there is a team in this league that is potentially dangerous in the NCAA Tournament, it's LIU. I'm not making any bold predictions, but they're the best equipped team to pull off an upset. Wagner may look better on paper, and they did play UConn close and beat Pitt this year, but LIU is still better when they want to be. The problem is they don't always play up to their ceiling.

[GoMuskies]

Two really good games going on in the NEC right now. SFNY fell behind big to Quinnipiac, but came back. Just down the street, top seeded LIU is letting Sacred Heart hang around. If there is a team in this league that is potentially dangerous in the NCAA Tournament, it's LIU. I'm not making any bold predictions, but they're the best equipped team to pull off an upset. Wagner may look better on paper, and they did play UConn close and beat Pitt this year, but LIU is still better when they want to be. The problem is they don't always play up to their ceiling.

Are these teams candidates for conference expansion? The A-10 is probably interested.

[bleedXblue]

Are these teams candidates for conference expansion? The A-10 is probably interested.

you're joking right ?

[bigdiggins]

LIU is better than Fordham. Gym is probably bigger too.
I stand corrected, Rose Hill - 3,400.
LIU Wellness Center - 2,500

LIU however did spend $45 million in 2006 building the wellness center. Fordham hasn't spent $45M on athletics combined since the school was founded.

[GoMuskies]

you're joking right ?

Yes. Just teasing brew for posting in the wrong thread.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Nothing new here. Yet another recruit telling the media UL is heading to the Big 12 in 2013. The question is who's the other team(s)?

@Mengus22: New commit Keith Towbridge told Inside the Ville that Louisville will be in the Big 12 when he gets there

[xudash]

Butler may be the obvious pick, but Butler is full of self-righteous douchers:

http://buhoops.yuku.com/topic/8627/Xavier-picks-up-Top-10-Recruit-2013#.T4ot6un-9M8

And, of course, poor wittle Muddled Waters has to spend more than too much time posting on a Butler board about a Xavier recruit.

I have a little down time this evening, so I'm checking on a few boards to see what's being discussed, looking mostly for shuffling news. Then I run into this non-sense.

I hope Chris Thomas fully gains his footing in life, puts on a Xavier uniform and personally destroys both these asshole programs.

[LA Muskie]

Butler may be the obvious pick, but Butler is full of self-righteous douchers:

http://buhoops.yuku.com/topic/8627/Xavier-picks-up-Top-10-Recruit-2013#.T4ot6un-9M8

And, of course, poor wittle Muddled Waters has to spend more than too much time posting on a Butler board about a Xavier recruit.

I have a little down time this evening, so I'm checking on a few boards to see what's being discussed, looking mostly for shuffling news. Then I run into this non-sense.

I hope Chris Thomas fully gains his footing in life, puts on a Xavier uniform and personally destroys both these asshole programs.

I don't follow the Butler boards, but I didn't see anything particularly d-baggy on that thread. Much of what was said about Thomas has been said on this site as well, and I've seen much worse about opponents posted here than what was said about us in that thread.

[xubrew]

Texas Arlington and Texas State are on their way to the Sun Belt instead of the WAC.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18911274/texas-state-utarlington-to-sun-belt-in-2013

The WAC is looking extremely thin right now, especially with Utah STate and San Jose State being on their way to the MWC. I believe the only two football teams left are Idaho and New Mexico State. Seattle, Denver and Boise State were expected to join as non-football members next year. The problem is there is nothing left to join.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Matt Hayes ‏@Matt_HayesSN
N-n-near future. After playoff settled. RT @kbohls: The Big12 has not reached out to FSU, ND; expansion talk is tabled "for near future."

Greg Swaim ‏@GSwaim
Got the call I was waiting on. Despite predictable "we're fine at 10" sound bytes from #Big12, #FSU & #Clemson are "full steam ahead".

LandThieves ‏@LandThieves
Big News: #FSU money woes run even deeper than 2.4 million short fall unlikely to balance its 2011-12 budget http://goo.gl/LVsyh #Big12

Mark Ennis ‏@Mengus22
FSU is using a go-between. RT @CFTalk FSU board chairman maintains there's been no contact with Big 12: http://wp.me/p14QTT-DyV

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@MatthewGaylor FSU's board of trustees has to approve the move. So does Clemson's; that and the announcement and presser is all that's left.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Listen up: all that's left for FSU & Clemson is their respective boards approval.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@opiethebirdman FSU will move first. Clemson waits for them and ND waits for the exact BCS deal.

"Will Big 12 Meetings be Calm before the storm?"

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1370224


And that leads us to any talk of expansion. I was told by two well-placed sources in the Big 12 today that pros and cons of expansion will probably be discussed on a very informal basis. Both sources said nothing will be decided at these meetings in terms of whether the Big 12 will definitely expand or not expand.

I'm told those conversations would not happen until after the college football playoff proposal is concluded. Also remember that TCU and West Virginia don't become full voting members until July 1. Also, new Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby doesn't take office until mid-June - after completing his duties as Stanford's athletic director.

Big 12 interim commissioner Chuck Neinas will stay on through June to help Bowlsby's transition. Then, Neinas said he's going on vacation. Both Bowlsby and Neinas will be on hand for the Big 12 meetings.

TCU athletic director Chris Del Conte made things interesting while talking to a group in Lubbock last week when he talked about how the Big 12 was once in trouble, but "now has schools like Florida State, Clemson and Miami trying to get in."

"Big 12 is ready to expand...With Notre Dame"

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1370799

[xudash]

JTT37, what do you think:


Go with the old adage - where there's smoke, there's fire; or
Where there is smoke, someone is going nuts with a fog machine?


How ND would think that the Big XII makes more sense for it than the B1G is beyond me, but I'm sure we all have our opinions on that one.

My immediate take is that the Big XII now knows it's secure, thanks to its new agreement with the SEC. There can no longer be a television arms race with the ACC as the Big XII has clearly gained the upper hand in that regard. So it really doesn't have to move quickly with respect to expanding further.

On the other hand, there exists the out-of-balance nature of that conference, with respect to how much power and economics are held by Texas within it. Unless some kind of pact has been quietly reached by the Big4 about not raiding each other, the PAC12 could make it interesting by still going after Texas at some point. If that is perceived as a possibility and if it is economically and contractually feasible, then the Big XII certainly should know that it isn't as stable as it must become, though it found a way to pull its arse out of the fire, as compared to how it looked this time last year. So that school of thought would suggest that action be taken now, rather than waiting for a season or two.

Crazy times.

[LA Muskie]

JTT37, what do you think:


Go with the old adage - where there's smoke, there's fire; or
Where there is smoke, someone is going nuts with a fog machine?


How ND would think that the Big XII makes more sense for it than the B1G is beyond me, but I'm sure we all have our opinions on that one.

My immediate take is that the Big XII now knows it's secure, thanks to its new agreement with the SEC. There can no longer be a television arms race with the ACC as the Big XII has clearly gained the upper hand in that regard. So it really doesn't have to move quickly with respect to expanding further.

On the other hand, there exists the out-of-balance nature of that conference, with respect to how much power and economics are held by Texas within it. Unless some kind of pact has been quietly reached by the Big4 about not raiding each other, the PAC12 could make it interesting by still going after Texas at some point. If that is perceived as a possibility and if it is economically and contractually feasible, then the Big XII certainly should know that it isn't as stable as it must become, though it found a way to pull its arse out of the fire, as compared to how it looked this time last year. So that school of thought would suggest that action be taken now, rather than waiting for a season or two.

Crazy times.
I agree it doesn't make sense on most levels. The only one I can think of is that the Big XII has shown a willingness to cut institution-specific deals (namely, Texas), so ND may think that it's more likely to squeeze more blood from the Big XII than B1G. That's all I've got. And admittedly it's entirely, 100%, completely, and unabashedly conjecture on my part.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

JTT37, what do you think:


Go with the old adage - where there's smoke, there's fire; or
Where there is smoke, someone is going nuts with a fog machine?


How ND would think that the Big XII makes more sense for it than the B1G is beyond me, but I'm sure we all have our opinions on that one.

My immediate take is that the Big XII now knows it's secure, thanks to its new agreement with the SEC. There can no longer be a television arms race with the ACC as the Big XII has clearly gained the upper hand in that regard. So it really doesn't have to move quickly with respect to expanding further.

On the other hand, there exists the out-of-balance nature of that conference, with respect to how much power and economics are held by Texas within it. Unless some kind of pact has been quietly reached by the Big4 about not raiding each other, the PAC12 could make it interesting by still going after Texas at some point. If that is perceived as a possibility and if it is economically and contractually feasible, then the Big XII certainly should know that it isn't as stable as it must become, though it found a way to pull its arse out of the fire, as compared to how it looked this time last year. So that school of thought would suggest that action be taken now, rather than waiting for a season or two.

Crazy times.


I agree it doesn't make sense on most levels. The only one I can think of is that the Big XII has shown a willingness to cut institution-specific deals (namely, Texas), so ND may think that it's more likely to squeeze more blood from the Big XII than B1G. That's all I've got. And admittedly it's entirely, 100%, completely, and unabashedly conjecture on my part.

To be honest, I think ND is really concerned about the new playoff format. The difference in revenue from the NBC TV contract as opposed to a new Big 12 (probably ND exclusive TV contract) can't be that much of a difference.

There is a major push for the winners of each major conference (Pac 12, Big 12, SEC, Big 10) to be in a four team playoff. This has a realistic shot of happening. ND, along with many others, don't want to be left out. I think that is a primary reason they have gotten aggressive with talks. If the four team playoff goes this way, I think ND will be forced to pretty much join a conference. If the powers that be decide on simply "The Best four teams" via BCS or whatever system, I think they may be content with staying independent.

From what I understand, Texas is pretty much the only team in the Big 12 that would accept ND for Olympic sports. So the vote to let in ND without football could be in jeopardy. Now if ND agrees to join in Olympic sports immediately and football after 2015(when the NBC contract runs out), I could see the teams agreeing to that

Lets say the Big 12 does go to 12.5...That leaves Virginia Tech, Maryland, Georgia Tech, NC State, and Miami on the free market essentially. They have not been quiet about wanting out of the ACC.


VT would obviously be the cream of the crop.
GT would bring the Atlanta market
NC State would bring the Raleigh/Durham/NC market
Miami is facing all sorts of probation but it brings a south florida market
Maryland is in turmoil financially but I guess it could bring the DC market

Does the SEC make a move at VT before someone else? The SEC was interested in NC State and VT last go around (They supposedly even asked the Big 12 to leave VT alone this summer) I can't see the SEC going after GT when they already have Georgia. Does the Big 12 go to 14/14.5 in a couple years or are they content at 12/12.5? Does the Big 10 sit idly by and watch the Big 12/SEC continue to get stronger or do they make a push at someone like GT?

Who knows, maybe ND stays in the BE for Olympic sports.

I think the only foregone conclusion(Allegedly) though is that FSU and Clemson are all but gone to the Big 12 barring a miraculous pitch by Swofford

[outsideobserver11]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7996958/sec-presidents-ads-back-best-teams-playoff

It'll be interesting to see if The SEC gets their wish since they are the most powerful conference. This type of news could be huge for schools like Boise, UC, etc. Would also allow Notre Dame to stay independent. Could potentially shake up a lot of stuff.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7996958/sec-presidents-ads-back-best-teams-playoff

It'll be interesting to see if The SEC gets their wish since they are the most powerful conference. This type of news could be huge for schools like Boise, UC, etc. Would also allow Notre Dame to stay independent. Could potentially shake up a lot of stuff.

This is pretty much what it comes down to with ND. Once this playoff format gets settled, we'll know a lot more about the fallout from ND and the other teams

[GoMuskies]

So long as it's the top 4 teams, even the new Big East will generally be fine. An undefeated Big East team would make the top 4 most years (barring additional defections).

[DC Muskie]

Someone tell me what I should be rooting for?

I'm looking at UC getting totally screwed here, so I hope that helps.

[GoMuskies]

Someone tell me what I should be rooting for?


Chaos. The more the better.

[HuskyMuskie]

How is a New Big East team going to be fine if it is the Top 4 best teams in the country? You can't tell me people are going to view those teams, nor their schedule strength equally. I don't see how an undefeated New Big East team can be put on an equal playing field with teams who lose 2 or 3 games in the SEC.

[GoMuskies]

How is a New Big East team going to be fine if it is the Top 4 best teams in the country? You can't tell me people are going to view those teams, nor their schedule strength equally. I don't see how an undefeated New Big East team can be put on an equal playing field with teams who lose 2 or 3 games in the SEC.

The Big East will be as strong going forward as it has been previously. Boise is every bit as good or better than WV was. Losing Pitt is neutral. Losing Syracuse is addition by subtraction.

Louisville was #2 in the BCS standings in 2006 and would have played for the national title if they hadn't blown a 25-7 lead at Rutgers. In 2007, WV was #2 and just needed to beat Pitt at home to secure a spot in the BCS title game. In 2009, undefeated UC was #3 and would have played in the BCS title game if Nebraska had finished off their upset bid against Texas in the Big XII title game.

Point being, all the undefeated teams in the past 6 years of Big East play would have comfortably made the top 4. That's not going to change going forward (you're welcom Paul).

[HuskyMuskie]

The Big East will be as strong going forward as it has been previously. Boise is every bit as good or better than WV was. Losing Pitt is neutral. Losing Syracuse is addition by subtraction.

Louisville was #2 in the BCS standings in 2006 and would have played for the national title if they hadn't blown a 25-7 lead at Rutgers. In 2007, WV was #2 and just needed to beat Pitt at home to secure a spot in the BCS title game. In 2009, undefeated UC was #3 and would have played in the BCS title game if Nebraska had finished off their upset bid against Texas in the Big XII title game.

Point being, all the undefeated teams in the past 6 years of Big East play would have comfortably made the top 4. That's not going to change going forward (you're welcom Paul).

My agrument is, if you couldn't have already guessed, that WV (out) and Louisville (nearly out) would not have been ranked as highly playing against Houston and San Diego State, as they would be playing against each other, Syracuse, Pitt, UCONN, etc.

You don't get to #2 in the country by playing lackluster teams. Boise can attest to that. Not that I am putting the teams Boise consistently played and the New Big East in the same category, but it will be a hell of a lot harder to get to #2 than some may think. MHO.

[GoMuskies]

Playing SDSU and Houston should help as much or more than playing Syracuse and Pitt. And playing Boise likely helps more than playing WV.

[theleague]

Playing SDSU and Houston should help as much or more than playing Syracuse and Pitt. And playing Boise likely helps more than playing WV.

Um, no.

[GoMuskies]

Um, no.

Um, based on what? I'll provide actual evidence that I'm right.

[GoMuskies]

All based on Sagarin predictor ratings. I think it's a pretty well respected indicator of a team's strength:

2011

West Virginia - 24 Boise - 8
Pitt - 68 Houston - 14
Syracuse - 83 SDSU - 67 58.33 vs. 29.67

2010

West Virginia - 32 Boise - 4
Pitt - 28 Houston - 71
Syracuse - 55 SDSU - 37 38.33 vs. 37.33

2009

West Virginia - 37 Boise - 11
Pitt - 16 Houston - 56
Syracuse - 91 SDSU - 113 48 vs. 60

2008

West Virginia - 32 Boise - 13
Pitt - 31 Houston - 47
Syracuse - 117 SDSU - 152 60 vs. 70.66

Four year average:

51.17 vs. 49.42

Woe is Big East football with those trades!

[paulxu]

That's not going to change going forward (you're welcom Paul).

Gaaaaaaaaagh. Trying to start my weekend off on the wrong foot.

I'm not with you on the BE though. I agree Boise is a great add (but if the shuffle continues would not be surprised to see them end up in the Pac whatever).

But if Louisville is rated #2, and blows a lead to Rutgers, I'm thinking they were way over-rated. If the Borecats went undefeated and you decided they were better than a 1 loss Alabama, I'll be calling you for a wager right before kick-off. (Think "I'll Have Another" here)

[GoMuskies]

Rutgers was undefeated and ranked like #6 at the time. OK, they were undefeated and #15, actually.

[paulxu]

Once the Big 12 starts poaching from the SEC, chances go down I guess for Louisville to make the cut. Would have liked them there for geography.

[PMI]

Maryland is in turmoil financially but I guess it could bring the DC market


Not to rehash old arguments from different threads, but the popular belief that Maryland is in financial turmoil is far from accurate. They lost a bunch of donors during the previous regime and it caused some immediate financial challenges, and the Washington Post ran with it, blowing it out of proportion. Given how many boosters they lost and how quickly they lost them (and that's a whole other issue; Yow was a total disaster as an AD), those issues did pile up and caused immediate problems that looked very threatening. But the sky is by no means falling, and far from it.

First off, the school is in one of the most unique, economically stable markets in the country. Second of all, most of these issues (getting back donors mainly) can be solved by one thing: winning. Maryland's basketball program is on its way to returning to elite level. Maryland is no University of Texas, but they aren't going bankrupt.

That said, I would never expect them to be included in the 4 super conferences. They spend the least amount of money of any public school in the ACC on football. It simply is not a football school. When basketball returns to glory, and it will, their financial issues will be taken care of. There are issues, but they aren't as dire as some of the media has made them out to be (mostly by kind of twisting some of Kevin Anderson's quotes during his first week on the job when he alluded to the potential for bad financial issues down the line if changes weren't made; what else would you expect from someone starting the new job?)

[xudash]

All based on Sagarin predictor ratings. I think it's a pretty well respected indicator of a team's strength:

2011

West Virginia - 24 Boise - 8
Pitt - 68 Houston - 14
Syracuse - 83 SDSU - 67 58.33 vs. 29.67

2010

West Virginia - 32 Boise - 4
Pitt - 28 Houston - 71
Syracuse - 55 SDSU - 37 38.33 vs. 37.33

2009

West Virginia - 37 Boise - 11
Pitt - 16 Houston - 56
Syracuse - 91 SDSU - 113 48 vs. 60

2008

West Virginia - 32 Boise - 13
Pitt - 31 Houston - 47
Syracuse - 117 SDSU - 152 60 vs. 70.66

Four year average:

51.17 vs. 49.42

Woe is Big East football with those trades!

GM, the problem is that you are only looking at this from the BE's vantage point, and you're using data to support your argument that, in part, include teams that will no longer be a part of the BE.

This is all about the last - 'best' - 4 teams, right? This is about those 4 teams that will make a play-off system more often than not, based on program strength and track record.

Granted they're still sorting out the process for the playoff format, but here's a list for you:

Ohio State
Michigan
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Texas
Oklahoma
USC
Oregon
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
LSU

That's the primary list of programs that will earn those four slots year in and year out, even if they were to have one loss, and any BE team, including Boise State, were sitting there undefeated.

Now throw in teams like A&M, V Tech, FSU and, since we're comparing to the BE here, programs like Michigan State, Penn State, Arkansas, South Carolina, and perhaps a few others, and it has to be safe to suggest that an undefeated BE team would have to have won a major OOC game or two to go along with playing directional Florida schools and SMU to have the numbers to make it into that 4 game playoff structure.

I'm sorry, but the BE was not well regarded in football a couple of realignments ago. It certainly has a poor standing now.

[GoMuskies]

you're using data to support your argument that, in part, include teams that will no longer be a part of the BE.



Good point. SDSU, Houston and Boise would have had higher computer rankings with better conference opponents. The Big East will be even that much stronger for trading WV, Syracuse and Pitt for Boise, SDSU and Houston.

Placing in the top 4 as an undefeated Big East team won't be that tough.

[xubrew]

My agrument is, if you couldn't have already guessed, that WV (out) and Louisville (nearly out) would not have been ranked as highly playing against Houston and San Diego State, as they would be playing against each other, Syracuse, Pitt, UCONN, etc.

You don't get to #2 in the country by playing lackluster teams. Boise can attest to that. Not that I am putting the teams Boise consistently played and the New Big East in the same category, but it will be a hell of a lot harder to get to #2 than some may think. MHO.

You don't have to be #2. You only have to be #4. That's something that an undefeated Boise did attain even while playing in the WAC. TCU finished #3 while playing in the MWC. I don't see why it's so far fetched to think an undefeated Big East team would attain a #4 ranking. They've managed to do it in the past, and the conference was actually weaker than it is likely to be going forward.

Now, there is discussion over how the top four teams will be determined, but one option is to simply use the current BCS formula. If they do that, then an undefeated BE team will be in good shape. People feel that UC was an overrated #3 team, but it doesn't matter. A team that is overrated and and ranked #3 is still ranked #3, which would put them in the playoffs.

[xubrew]

Louisville was #2 in the BCS standings in 2006 and would have played for the national title if they hadn't blown a 25-7 lead at Rutgers. In 2007, WV was #2 and just needed to beat Pitt at home to secure a spot in the BCS title game.

On top of that, that West Virginia team had actually lost a game. They were ranked #2 with a loss. If a Big East team of old can be ranked #2 with one loss, than a Big East team of new can be ranked #4 without any losses, especially since it appears the changes have actually made the league stronger.

[LA Muskie]

You don't have to be #2. You only have to be #4. That's something that an undefeated Boise did attain even while playing in the WAC. TCU finished #3 while playing in the MWC. I don't see why it's so far fetched to think an undefeated Big East team would attain a #4 ranking. They've managed to do it in the past, and the conference was actually weaker than it is likely to be going forward.

Now, there is discussion over how the top four teams will be determined, but one option is to simply use the current BCS formula. If they do that, then an undefeated BE team will be in good shape. People feel that UC was an overrated #3 team, but it doesn't matter. A team that is overrated and and ranked #3 is still ranked #3, which would put them in the playoffs.

And for this reason, I expect the "Top 4" will be decided by a committee akin to the way it's done with basketball. And that will not be good news for the Big East.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think there's any chance they do it in a way that's not transparent.

[xudash]

You don't have to be #2. You only have to be #4. That's something that an undefeated Boise did attain even while playing in the WAC. TCU finished #3 while playing in the MWC. I don't see why it's so far fetched to think an undefeated Big East team would attain a #4 ranking. They've managed to do it in the past, and the conference was actually weaker than it is likely to be going forward.

Now, there is discussion over how the top four teams will be determined, but one option is to simply use the current BCS formula. If they do that, then an undefeated BE team will be in good shape. People feel that UC was an overrated #3 team, but it doesn't matter. A team that is overrated and and ranked #3 is still ranked #3, which would put them in the playoffs.

I still don't see how you come to this.

Teams leave the BE for good reasons - more money, stability and perceived or real prestige.

The BE prior to Miami and V Tech leaving was much better than this current version. Besides, you can't keep comparing Version 1 or Version 2 of the BE to whatever version this is of it, because the other conferences are getting stronger, too, and with much bigger programs than what the BE can attract.

Can an undefeated BE team make it to the new football playoff system? I guess I have to answer "yes" to that question. Is it likely to occur? No, I seriously doubt a BE team will sniff that system from here on out, based on how things are progressing now.

[GoMuskies]

I still don't see how you come to this.



WV is easily replaced by Boise. The other teams that left were basically a net negative (particularly Syracuse).

On the field barring any further departures, the 2013 Big East (with Boise) will likely be the best Big East since 2006.

Hopefully Louisville will depart, though.

[xubrew]

I still don't see how you come to this.

Teams leave the BE for good reasons - more money, stability and perceived or real prestige.

The BE prior to Miami and V Tech leaving was much better than this current version. Besides, you can't keep comparing Version 1 or Version 2 of the BE to whatever version this is of it, because the other conferences are getting stronger, too, and with much bigger programs than what the BE can attract.

Can an undefeated BE team make it to the new football playoff system? I guess I have to answer "yes" to that question. Is it likely to occur? No, I seriously doubt a BE team will sniff that system from here on out, based on how things are progressing now.

I don't see how you come to this. Had it been the top four instead of the top two, Boise would have made it despite playing in the WAC a few years back. They managed a top four ranking in the past two years, and in all likelihood would have retained it had they managed to finish undefeated....and that was in the WAC.

South Florida, Louisville, West Virginia and Cincinnati all managed to crack the top four at some point during the year. I believe it is very safe to assume they would have remained in the top four had they finished undefeated. UC actually did finish in the top four after going undefeated despite the fact there were only two other top forty teams in the conference.

There has never been a Big East team that was not on pace to finish in the top four had they gone undefeated. I don't see why that would change with teams like Houston, Boise and UCF (who is expected to be a top 25 team this year) joining the league in place of teams like West Virginia, Pitt and Syracuse. You can say that you think it's unlikely that a Big East team will go undefeated, but it's also unlikely that a BE Team would be left out of the top four if they ever did go undefeated. On three occasions they had a team in a position to make the top two, and two of those teams are still in the league.

[xudash]

I don't see how you come to this. Had it been the top four instead of the top two, Boise would have made it despite playing in the WAC a few years back. They managed a top four ranking in the past two years, and in all likelihood would have retained it had they managed to finish undefeated....and that was in the WAC.

South Florida, Louisville, West Virginia and Cincinnati all managed to crack the top four at some point during the year. I believe it is very safe to assume they would have remained in the top four had they finished undefeated. UC actually did finish in the top four after going undefeated despite the fact there were only two other top forty teams in the conference.

There has never been a Big East team that was not on pace to finish in the top four had they gone undefeated. I don't see why that would change with teams like Houston, Boise and UCF (who is expected to be a top 25 team this year) joining the league in place of teams like West Virginia, Pitt and Syracuse. You can say that you think it's unlikely that a Big East team will go undefeated, but it's also unlikely that a BE Team would be left out of the top four if they ever did go undefeated. On three occasions they had a team in a position to make the top two, and two of those teams are still in the league.

I'm declaring myself hung up on perception.

I don't think it matters anyway, as conference realignment isn't finished. Additional realignment activity will most likely negatively impact the BE.

[waggy]

Do you want the BE negatively impacted so the A10 can pass it, or so that X can join it? :D

[paulxu]

If an undefeated BE team meets a one loss SEC team in some sort of playoff, the only question will be one regarding covering the spread.

[GoMuskies]

If an undefeated BE team meets a one loss SEC team in some sort of playoff, the only question will be one regarding covering the spread.

That's not true of every conference against the SEC?

[xudash]

Do you want the BE negatively impacted so the A10 can pass it, or so that X can join it? :D

Allow me in the room to see what the TV deal would look like, and I'll give you my answer then. The BE name would have to stay with the Catholic schools as well, which implies that some reasonably large amount of cash would stay with them, too.

MY gut reaction is "join" and not "pass" it. These BE Catholic schools would have to get used to living without a warm BCS blanket around them; they would have to have the vision necessary to understand that they could still thrive in the sport. That includes staying committed to NBA arena solutions, or coming up with something else that would make sense for the conference.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

@IngramSmith
FSU fans grab your popcorn - next 48 hours could be pretty interesting

[GoMuskies]

I've been eating popcorn for 12 hours now. When's the action start!

[UCGRAD4X]

I've been eating popcorn for 12 hours now. When's the action start!

Popcorn Farts may be the most exciting action you're going to get

[X-band '01]

@IngramSmith
FSU fans grab your popcorn - next 48 hours could be pretty interesting

How do we know this wasn't about the baseball team for FSU?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

How do we know this wasn't about the baseball team for FSU?

Ha. From what I've gathered all over the internetverse, Clemson/FSU have already agreed informally to join the Big12 in late May. Now all that's left is the official statements which should come anytime after the playoff agreement is set in stone

Which makes the following teams essentially free agents (For ACC, Big1G, SEC, Big12). Who will make the cut?

VT
GT
Miami
NC State
UNC
Maryland
Louisville
UConn
Rutgers
ND
UC

The SEC is DEFINITELY interested in the NC Market(A&M and others are pushing for them to look at going to 16(crazy). Whether or not they do so we'll see.

Here's a story from Forbes on the ACC and third tier rights:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/06/04/the-accs-third-tier-rights-and-why-theyre-killing-the-conference/

Here's yet another clemson post on alleged details:
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=1110628

Your move FSU/Clemson

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

This guy has been accurate about a ton of stuff in the past. He's been saying FSU to the Big12 for months just like he said WV to the Big12 last year and been heckled by some of the national media. He's usually pretty spot on.

http://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/06/fsu-navigating-move-to-big-12-with_07.html


Moving from one athletic conference to another is complicated. Legal issues must be worked out and budgets prepared. Boosters need to be contacted and asked to increase their donations to make up for lost revenue during the transition and other issues to numerous to mention must be properly dealt with before any announcements are made.

FSU isn’t in a position to make any announcement other than to deny interest in the Big 12; and more than likely that’s just what they will do during their Board of Trustee meetings today and tomorrow.

They will make a statement denying interest in the Big 12 and then continue to work on navigating their way out of the conference in private.

The Board of Trustee will certainly discuss the Big 12 and they’re likely to authorize president Eric Barron to open formal talks with the conference, but we’ll not hear FSU acknowledge any decision.

Before you panic keep this in mind:


* The Big 12 has not had a formal vote on FSU or Clemson;
* FSU will not withdraw from the ACC until they have that vote has taken place;
* a formal vote on FSU can’t take place until FSU is ready and they’re not ready.


No offense to Randy Spetman but he’s not in control of the Florida State athletic department and the vacuum in leadership is slowing down the process.

The athletic department is being ran by boosters, the Board of Trustees and Jimbo Fisher --- that’s too many cooks in the kitchen.

So what does this mean?

FSU is leaving the ACC for the Big 12. They money at stake, between $6 - $9 million per year, is simply too great for Barron to ignore.

Here's a roundtable podcast that includes the WVDude and some other people(Haven't listened to it yet)
http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2012-articles/june/podcast-all-star-conference-realignment-roundtable.html

@IngramSmith
RT @dblackburn FSU prez Barron says he will talk about Big 12 today. ... @tdonline #fsu

@IngramSmith
FSU's Pres will likely deny previous talks w/ BIg 12. I expect FSU's BOT to give him authority to formally begin nego'ns w/ BIg 12

@IngramSmith
This will be done in executive session, there will be no record; nonetheless it is incredibly important as it often the 1st step of process

-------

brian gantt ‏@briangantt1
@IngramSmith if fsu leaves, will Ga Tech go too?

Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith
@briangantt1 it depends on who else will join the Big12 - if anything ever comes of ND & Big12 I would watch GT very closely

[outsideobserver11]

I still don't see how it is going to be possible for the big 4 conferences to go to 16 teams. Who is the PAC 12 going to add without going all the way to the East coast? They are at 12 currently and have zero interest in BYU. Might as well take Boise since basketball already doesn't exist in that conference, but then who? If the SEC and Big 10 get their way and have the 4 best teams in the playoffs instead of conference tie-ins then the conference shuffling may come to a halt. Lot easier for FSU or Clemson to go undefeated in the current ACC and make the playoffs then do it through the Big 12.

[UCGRAD4X]

What a cluster-f**k!

Makes the movement in the A10 this year look positively glacial.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I still don't see how it is going to be possible for the big 4 conferences to go to 16 teams. Who is the PAC 12 going to add without going all the way to the East coast? They are at 12 currently and have zero interest in BYU. Might as well take Boise since basketball already doesn't exist in that conference, but then who? If the SEC and Big 10 get their way and have the 4 best teams in the playoffs instead of conference tie-ins then the conference shuffling may come to a halt. Lot easier for FSU or Clemson to go undefeated in the current ACC and make the playoffs then do it through the Big 12.

Imo, I don't think any of the major conferences want to go to 16. I don't necessarily think the SEC wanted to go to 14. But when a huge state school in the Texas market basically throws themselves at you, how can the SEC turn that down? They'll make more money which is what everything is about with realignment

Here's what we know. The playoff format is gravitating towards the best four teams. That will overwhelmingly favor the major four bcs conferences. So we might see a scramble from teams to get into some of these conferences and what conference wouldn't listen if a team like VT or whoever comes begging at their door? The acc and big east know this new format could be disastrous for them. That is why they are pushing for an 8 team playoff.

After the format is finalized, the dominoes could fall fast if/according to some people when fsu makes the first move.Gt, vt, Miami, Fsu, Clemson, Maryland, nc state, ul, rutgers, and nd have all put out feelers to the big 12 and some of those schools have looked to the SEC and B1G. Schools do not want to be left out. On top of this you have boosters, bots and rabid fan bases pushing the issue at every turn

[waggy]

FSU's athletics budget suddenly good, not in shortfall after all


As of June 1, the Seminoles are operating in the black.

According to athletics director Randy Spetman, bright blue economic skies have begun surrounding upon the school's sports programs, replacing the dark financial clouds that once morbidly loomed over them.


During an address made Friday morning to the board of trustees at the John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art, Spetman acknowledged that thanks to money from the ACC, FSU's athletics department is no longer facing a $2.4 million shortfall on its next fiscal budget.

Also disappeared with the ACC's benevolent snap of a finger, is the $500,000 budgetary deficit from fiscal year 2011-12 that had been staring at the Seminoles in recent weeks.

"The way the conference distributes money every year, they were very conservative; which I was very thankful for," Spetman said.

Instead of receiving approximately $14 million total this year from the ACC as part of a conference distribution pool, FSU has received nearly $16 million, Spetman said. That $16 million was the result of an additional $1.6 million paid from the ACC on June 1 that the university received that it hadn't been expecting.

The June 1 check totaled $6,997,398.85, a school official told the Orlando Sentinel.

On its most recent athletics budget, announced during an athletics board meeting in Tallahassee on May 2, Spetman's office expected receiving just $14.1 million for the year from the conference. In other words, the university was only looking for approximately $5.4 million on that June 1 check.

"They give us what they project is their budget for conference distribution based on television, based on any media rights they have in championship games, the NCAA basketball tournament, the conference football championship game, the NCAA distribution," Spetman said. "This conference distributes money evenly. There's nobody that gets more money for TV appearances or otherwise.

"It's a great way to run a conference."

Weird.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-08/sports/os-florida-state-athletic-budget-0608-20120608_1_athletics-budget-acc-conference-official

[xudash]

FSU's athletics budget suddenly good, not in shortfall after all





Weird.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-08/sports/os-florida-state-athletic-budget-0608-20120608_1_athletics-budget-acc-conference-official

I believe you're being polite, calling it weird.

There are couple things to consider with this. One is the fact that the super conferences still enjoy a major financial advantage over the ACC. The other is whether or not that advantage has any effect on a program like FSU.

So FSU is made whole for now. Does that mean that they will stay in the ACC, knowing that they will still operate at a financial disadvantage to the super conferences?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I believe you're being polite, calling it weird.

There are couple things to consider with this. One is the fact that the super conferences still enjoy a major financial advantage over the ACC. The other is whether or not that advantage has any effect on a program like FSU.

So FSU is made whole for now. Does that mean that they will stay in the ACC, knowing that they will still operate at a financial disadvantage to the super conferences?

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@Warchant_DC @GSwaim it is a done deal. FSU & Clemson have agreed to move to the B12. All that's left is process - on both sides.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@StephenEvans22 @Warchant_DC @GSwaim the exact same people who kept me in the loop in Jan. are telling me everything is a go.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@StephenEvans22 @Warchant_DC @GSwaim but 6 months ago I was a quack for writing about this. We now know that it was real.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
@StephenEvans22 @Warchant_DC @GSwaim a budget deficient is minor & not a significant factor. Revenues going forward are a concern.

[xudash]

Would the MWC allow Boise State to come back if all hell breaks loose?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/06/line-of-demarcation.html


Last week FSU gave a classic non-denial. They used rhetoric to say much about nothing.

Nothing was said, but it was an important nothing.

They did not pledge allegiance to the ACC.

They did not back away from the Big 12.

They said all the right things to remain non-committed and open to available opportunities.

Somehow FSU’s positioning was interpreted as backing away from the Big 12 – that interpretation is wrong, but I can understand why so many understood it that way.

....


FSU would be foolish to make any comment officially declaring their love of the Big 12(‘s money). They do not have an offer to join the Big 12.

They will have that offer soon -- maybe as soon as July 1st when WVU and TCU become voting members in the Big 12 and Bob Bowlsby is officially in office—maybe even sooner; think after the June 20th BCS meeting.

And when that offer is made FSU will accept and bring Clemson with them to the Big 12.

FSU is telling some that a move for 2013 is unlikely. They are telling the media a move in 2014 is more realistic.

Privately FSU is telling the Big 12 they will have everything in order to notify the ACC of their departure by the August 15th deadline.

FSU assured Big 12 members the move was still on track over the weekend.

Despite the obvious signals the doubt of the pending move lingers, especially among those with allegiance to the ACC.

Their doubt comes from FSU’s vanishing budget deficit and the rhetorical comments made by FSU at the end of last week.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Clemson BOT meetings this morning. One of the topics will be expansion.

----


Also, I found some of these statements by Clemson's football coach humorous


Clemson coach Dabo Swinney shot down from every angle rumors and speculation that the program is considering joining the Big 12.

In a brief talk with the media on Tuesday, Swinney described the persistent speculation as “frustrating” and added that a move from the ACC to the Big 12 would make “zero sense,” he told The Post and Courier.
Clemson head coach Dabo Swinney seems to be frustrated with the speculation of a move to the Big 12. (AP Photo)

He added that the rumors have had a “very negative” affect on recruiting.

“It’s really impacted and affected our recruiting,” he said, according to TigerNet.com. “I’ve had to spend a lot of time re-recruiting guys and assuring them that we’re not going to the Big 12. So, it’s been a real distraction and it’s been negative, quite frankly.”

Swinney is clearly perturbed by the conference realignment stories that have remained steady this entire offseason.

“I think there has been a lot of irresponsible blogging and reporting whatever you want to call it,” Swinney told reporters. “We live in this world where somebody hears something from the guy in the third stall down and it’s like, ‘Ok, it’s fact.’ It’s so far from reality it’s not even funny. We’re 1,000 percent committed to the ACC."


http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-06-12/clemson-coach-dabo-swinney-says-move-from-acc-to-big-12-would-make-zero-sense

1) Nothing makes sense in college football re-alignment except $$$$...And Clemson is due to make substantially more money in the Big12 than the ACC(if they get invited). So the notion it makes "ZERO" sense is laughable

2) How does this hurt recruiting? You are talking about possibly moving into the 2nd best conference in the country. If recruits are really saying they may not commit because you may join a top flight football conference, I would start second guessing my faith in that recruit...Possibly joining the Big 12 should HELP not hurt recruiting, unless of course you are a horrible recruiter and need a Mick Cronin like excuse

3) "Its so far from reality....were 1000% committed to the ACC"...Really? Then what about prior statements made by one of your BOT's? 3rd party feelers from the Big12 and Clemson? You are a football coach that has very little to no input on the ultimate decision.

[waggy]

One negative might be that road games in the ACC would generally be drivable by fans and player families, but that's all I can really think of.

Clemson has long long associations with the other Carolina schools. I think it's easier for FSU to pull up stakes.

[xudash]

Clemson BOT meetings this morning. One of the topics will be expansion.

----


Also, I found some of these statements by Clemson's football coach humorous




http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-06-12/clemson-coach-dabo-swinney-says-move-from-acc-to-big-12-would-make-zero-sense

1) Nothing makes sense in college football re-alignment except $$$$...And FSU is due to make substantially more money in the Big12 than the ACC. So the notion it makes "ZERO" sense is laughable

2) How does this hurt recruiting? You are talking about possibly moving into the 2nd best conference in the country. If recruits are really saying they may not commit because you may join a top flight football conference, I would start second guessing my faith in that recruit...Possibly joining the Big 12 should HELP not hurt recruiting, unless of course you are a horrible recruiter and need a Mick Cronin like excuse

3) "Its so far from reality....were 1000% committed to the ACC"...Really? Then what about prior statements made by one of your BOT's? 3rd party feelers from the Big12 and Clemson? You are a football coach that has very little to no input on the ultimate decision.

You nutted it with your #1. It's dollars AND positioning. Positioning in the sense that you had better be aligned with one of the clear-cut conference winners in this great play - SEC, B1G, Big XII and PAC12.

The ACC is a brand, but primarily for basketball. It's been around since the 50's. That doesn't hold a candle to the Big Ten Conference, which was formed in 1896. I bring this point up because it fascinates me to watch this from an outside vantage point. Dabo can get caught up in "ACC Tradition" all he wants, but all of this is fleeting. Change is hell for those that make it hellish.

So it's about aligning with the winners and enjoying the financial benefits that come with doing so. Everything else will be about new travel experiences and building new rivalries.

[xubrew]

Boston University is joining the Patriot League in 2013. Kind of a surprise....

http://www.patriotleague.org/genrel/061512aab.html

[BBC 08]

Found this interesting from espn:

Big East teams have gone 7-7 all time in BCS games since its formation in 1999. That makes the Big East one of five conferences with at least a .500 record in BCS games. The others: the Mountain West, SEC, WAC and Pac-12. The numbers hold up with the future configuration of the league -- Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and Boise State are 3-3 in their BCS appearances. As for the ACC, which everybody believes is sooo much better, it's worth repeating the all-time BCS record is ... 2-13.

In the BCS era, the Big East has the best overall bowl record of any FBS conference. The Big East is 43-27 (.614) in bowl games since the 1998-99 season.

All eight of the Big East’s 2012 members have played in at least one bowl game in the past two years. The Big East is the only league in the nation in which every member has reached the postseason in the past two seasons.

Since 2006, the Big East has had two teams (Louisville, Cincinnati) finish the season with at least 12 wins. In the 2013 season, the Big East will include teams that have produced eight 12-win seasons since 2006 (five by Boise State, one each by Cincinnati, Louisville and Houston).

What do the Big East Football haters have to say now?

[blueblob06]

Found this interesting from espn:

Big East teams have gone 7-7 all time in BCS games since its formation in 1999. That makes the Big East one of five conferences with at least a .500 record in BCS games. The others: the Mountain West, SEC, WAC and Pac-12. The numbers hold up with the future configuration of the league -- Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and Boise State are 3-3 in their BCS appearances. As for the ACC, which everybody believes is sooo much better, it's worth repeating the all-time BCS record is ... 2-13.

In the BCS era, the Big East has the best overall bowl record of any FBS conference. The Big East is 43-27 (.614) in bowl games since the 1998-99 season.

All eight of the Big East’s 2012 members have played in at least one bowl game in the past two years. The Big East is the only league in the nation in which every member has reached the postseason in the past two seasons.

Since 2006, the Big East has had two teams (Louisville, Cincinnati) finish the season with at least 12 wins. In the 2013 season, the Big East will include teams that have produced eight 12-win seasons since 2006 (five by Boise State, one each by Cincinnati, Louisville and Houston).

What do the Big East Football haters have to say now?

That is surprising...at least to some extent though we have to remember that the Big East team is usually put in the worst BCS bowl, i.e. they play against the worst of all the teams that make BCS bowls. They aren't playing the #1, #2, #3, #4 team in the nation, etc... Every year or nearly every year the SEC for example plays either the #1 or the #2 team in the nation in 1 of their 2 BCS bowls. But I do see what you're saying.

[GoMuskies]

That is surprising...at least to some extent though we have to remember that the Big East team is usually put in the worst BCS bowl, i.e. they play against the worst of all the teams that make BCS bowls. .

Yes, they play the ACC reps a lot.

[DC Muskie]

Did you guys see that Boston U is moving from America East to the Patriot League?

That means they now have 9 teams. Fordham would be a nice addition for 10 don't you think?

[muskienick]

Did you guys see that Boston U is moving from America East to the Patriot League?

That means they now have 9 teams. Fordham would be a nice addition for 10 don't you think?

And since BU doesn't field a FB team, that would give each member an 8-game Conference Football Schedule. It's perfect for all involved, especially for the long-suffering members of the A-10 (who are only involved tangentally).

Is there room now in the America East for LaSalle? What a bonanza that would be!

[Masterofreality]

Did you guys see that Boston U is moving from America East to the Patriot League?

That means they now have 9 teams. Fordham would be a nice addition for 10 don't you think?

What? And lose the New York media market!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[UCGRAD4X]

Yeah.

We will probably get as much from having the tournament there than we ever got from having Fordham.

Besides, two teams called Rams is one too many.

[ballyhoohoo]

Yeah.

We will probably get as much from having the tournament there than we ever got from having Fordham.

Besides, two teams called Rams is one too many.

Three teams now

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Greg Swaim...Take it for what its worth.

Greg Swaim ‏@GSwaim
Sure I'll hear more soon, but word today is new #BCS will force #ND into a conference, and perpetuates #FSU move. #CardNation to #Big12?


Greg Swaim ‏@GSwaim
#Big12 fans worried who'll be 4th addition if #ND, #FSU & #CardNation join. Just about every #ACC school will want that last spot.

Sounds like if the BCS continues to gravitate towards a four team playoff, which many believe is being finalized now, we'll see some action


I still dont think ND is joining a conference for football anytime soon but I guess you never say never in realignment

-----
Stars are starting to align



"Power Conferences likely to receive most Playoff Revenue"

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/19378895/power-conferences-likely-to-receive-most-of-playoff-revenue

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

'BCS Commissioners reach consensus on four team college football playoff'

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8078786/commissioners-reach-consensus-four-team-college-football-playoff

Here we go...


Chip Brown ‏@ChipBrownOB
Sources in B12 tell OB Notre Dame moving Olympic sports into #Big12 becoming more and more likely. ... http://bit.ly/KNeWgO #ND #cfb

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

'Big 12 Expansion: Everyone wins, except the ACC'

http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2012-articles/june/big-12-expansion-everybody-wins-except-the-acc.html

The new rumor of the day from Message boards is that FSU, Clemson, and ND(as a partial member) will join Big 12 as early as this weekend. That's the new unfounded speculation. The Dude of WV and the main guy from Baylor 247 is saying this as well. Well see

[DC Muskie]

What happened to FSU and Clempson moving?

I thought that was a done deal?

[xudash]

'Big 12 Expansion: Everyone wins, except the ACC'

http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2012-articles/june/big-12-expansion-everybody-wins-except-the-acc.html

The new rumor of the day from Message boards is that FSU, Clemson, and ND(as a partial member) will join Big 12 as early as this weekend. That's the new unfounded speculation. The Dude of WV and the main guy from Baylor 247 is saying this as well. Well see

Very logical article.

What is ND's true fate moving forward:


A brand that is so solid it will make out economically while getting killed on the field; or
A brand that is so solid that it will make out economically while getting killed on the field?


Unless ND changes its recruiting standards, there is no way it is going to see the championship process that they're conjuring up now. I make that statement assuming they pursue the committee approach and that the committee formed truly follows W/L's and strength of schedule.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Chadd Scott ‏@ChaddScott
At 8:30 mark of this podcast w/ @IngramSmith he says Jimbo Fisher pushing FSU to Big12 behind the scenes http://ow.ly/bLEu9


-----

Apparently the Big 12 is meeting to discuss expansion this weekend


"Notre Dame football commentary: Big 12 whispers getting louder"

http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2012-06-20/sports/32340475_1_big-east-college-athletics-notre-dame


A Rivals.com website that covers the University of Texas, orangebloods.com, has reported that two anonymous Big 12 Conference sources have confirmed that Notre Dame will announce the departure of its Olympic sports from the Big East as soon as this summer, thus ending a relationship that began in 1995. Next stop would be the Big 12.

Along with the move of the Olympic sports, the report said Notre Dame has agreed to play at least three, and as many as six, Big 12 teams in football in upcoming years

-------

These whispers have circulated for several weeks. Confirmation by two Big 12 sources adds a little fire to that smoke, even if Swarbrick worked so hard to douse the embers Wednesday.

“I can’t imagine what triggered the account,” Swarbrick said. “There was no conversation. There was no ‘something’ that would cause it to be written today. I have no idea.”

The Big 12 arrangement would be a cozy one for both sides..

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It might be a busy weekend:

"Boise State still hasn't formally withdrawn from MWC, decision to wait could cost millions"

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19404551/boise-state-still-hasnt-formally-withdrawn-decision-to-wait-could-cost-millions

So to recap all the unfounded/smokey rumors since the revelation of the 4 team playoff:

-Boise is having 2nd thoughts on the BE
-SEC is not happy with an 'imbalanced 14 teams' and have interest in VT and the Carolina schools
-Big 10 is 'open' to expansion
-FSU, Clemson and ND olympic sports to the Big 12

[xudash]

I can't see the BE getting to a television deal that is going to make sense. Even if it makes sense, I don't see it surviving, given that the game of musical chairs hasn't stopped yet. As far as that's concerned, the ink may not even dry on the deal by the time adjustments become necessary.

Why would Boise map into this mess, now that this deal is headed towards a 4 team playoff determined by committee?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I can't see the BE getting to a television deal that is going to make sense. Even if it makes sense, I don't see it surviving, given that the game of musical chairs hasn't stopped yet. As far as that's concerned, the ink may not even dry on the deal by the time adjustments become necessary.

Why would Boise map into this mess, now that this deal is headed towards a 4 team playoff determined by committee?

I would imagine SDSU is not far behind Boise unless they are completely locked into a contract...

This is gonna be a mess if any of these scenarios play out

[xudash]

From long Florida Times-Union article today:

FSU would have to notify ACC of its intention to move by Aug. 15.

BoT doesn't meet again until September.

FSU official said there never was a $2.4 million deficit; just a gap that got cleared up with a WVU fee and larger than expected bowl distribution.

Otherwise, same concerns as before - more money, but with more travel expenses and concerns over the ACC's ability to remain relevant in a 4 team playoff system.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Somebody in the B12 is blocking Clemson thinking ND joins in all sports. May cause FSU to say no.

The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
A trusted FoP of the Mountaineer program confirmed It tonight. The individual doing the blocking is on the expansion committee.

[GoMuskies]

I think the Dude is making up (stuff) as he goes. He's about as good a source as Swaim.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I think the Dude is making up (stuff) as he goes. He's about as good a source as Swaim.

He may be now. The only reason I'm giving him some credibility is because he was talking about FSU to the Big 12 since Dec. If FSU doesn't make the jump, I'm putting him directly into the Swaim category

[xudash]

Does - can - the Big XII remain at 10 teams? Isn't that the question?

If it is inevitable that the Big XII is going to 12 teams, then the alignment process hasn't run its course yet. If it stands pat at 10 teams (I don't see that being likely) then things could settle into what they'll look like a couple years from now after the known shifts are made.

The other key piece of the puzzle will be the model/process by which the committee makes its 4 team selection.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

It is interesting to note that the coach of FSU football Jimbo Fisher is one of the main guys pushing for FSU to go to the Big 12

[xudash]

It is interesting to note that the coach of FSU football Jimbo Fisher is one of the main guys pushing for FSU to go to the Big 12

He get's it.

An ACC schedule, as things stand now, isn't going to produce a SOS that will help position an ACC team for the Final 4.

It's 4 teams. Not 8 teams. Not 16 teams. 4 teams that will come primarily from the SEC, B1G, PAC12 and Big XII(-2).

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

He get's it.

An ACC schedule, as things stand now, isn't going to produce a SOS that will help position an ACC team for the Final 4.

It's 4 teams. Not 8 teams. Not 16 teams. 4 teams that will come primarily from the SEC, B1G, PAC12 and Big XII(-2).

Exactly. The ACC and the Big East tried to get an 8 team playoff, but that was unsuccessful. You're right. A 1 loss Big 12 or SEC team will probably leap over any undefeated ACC or Big East team.

"Could ND join the Big 12?"
http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/18870264/could-notre-dame-join-big-12

"Are Big 12, ND close to a relationship?"
http://kansascity.sbnation.com/2012/6/23/3111199/sports-postscript-are-big-12-notre-dame-close-to-a-relationship

"Notre Dame heading to the Big 12?"
http://www.wvmetronews.com/wvu.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=53460

"The Week in Realignment"
http://www.accsports.com/blogs/jim-young/2012062412984/the-week-in-realignment.php

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Here comes a 4 team playoff

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8099187/ncaa-presidents-approve-four-team-college-football-playoff-beginning-2014

[muskienick]

Here comes a 4 team playoff

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8099187/ncaa-presidents-approve-four-team-college-football-playoff-beginning-2014

And the talking heads are now referring to the "Big Five" (ACC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, PAC 12) and explaining that the Big East has been dropped from from the Big Six to force use of that new designation.

One must ask how soon it will be that SD St. and Boise St. renege on their invitations to join the Big East.

[GoMuskies]

The ACC must have a great PR man given how inept they've been on the field (even compared to the lowly Big East).

[GoMuskies]

One must ask how soon it will be that SD St. and Boise St. renege on their invitations to join the Big East.

It's pretty unlikely that either will have a better option than the Big East (such as it is), though I suppose SDSU may value the basketball upside of being able to stay in the MWC alongside UNLV and New Mexico.

[xudash]

So if it is true that Boise State hasn't left the MWC yet, I wonder where that's headed.

4 teams determined by committee.

A BE schedule isn't going to land them a shot at the playoff system. Why bother with the move.

[GoMuskies]

A BE schedule isn't going to land them a shot at the playoff system. Why bother with the move.

Why wouldn't it? Along with their normal one to two big OOC games, an undefeated record againast a Big East schedule should be plenty enough most years. They've finished in the top 4 playing in a much worse league than the Big East. I think the move to the Big East makes a lot more sense for Boise now.

[waggy]

I don't know why they singled out the BE possibly being excluded as an auto qualifier.. As it doesn't appear there are any auto qualifiers.

[Masterofreality]

Why wouldn't it? Along with their normal one to two big OOC games, an undefeated record againast a Big East schedule should be plenty enough most years. They've finished in the top 4 playing in a much worse league than the Big East. I think the move to the Big East makes a lot more sense for Boise now.

No way, in any sense. The Big East was only hanging the carrot of the auto bid out there. Now that is gone.

The "Big East" schedule that you speak of is not the same ol' Big East Schedule. No more Pitt, WVA and now you get a crappy Memphis, Temple and Central Florida. welcome to Sun Belt football.

Boise would be a lot better off in the Mountain West plus it takes care of their Olympic sports without controversy.

The Big East zombie football is dead. Don't let your love for Louisville cloud that fact, Go. You know as well as I do that U of L would jump to a better league immediately if they got an invite.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

From my understanding, Boise football will still make more money in the Big East than it did in the MWC.

However, the problem as I understand it is that Boise's Olympic sports still have no home. The WAC is dead and the MWC will only take Boise's olympic sports if their football comes back. Thats why they haven't officially left the MWC

More and more Boise people are hating the BIg East move
http://www.obnug.com/2012/6/26/3117901/its-time-to-come-to-our-senses-and-embrace-rational-thought

Regardless, I can't see the Big East being a long term solution for Boise football

[Masterofreality]

From my understanding, Boise football will still make more money in the Big East than it did in the MWC.

However, the problem as I understand it is that Boise's Olympic sports still have no home. The WAC is dead and the MWC will only take Boise's olympic sports if their football comes back. Thats why they haven't officially left the MWC

More and more Boise people are hating the BIg East move
http://www.obnug.com/2012/6/26/3117901/its-time-to-come-to-our-senses-and-embrace-rational-thought

Regardless, I can't see the Big East being a long term solution for Boise football

That article is right on the, errrrr, money.

[paulxu]

Today's dumb question comes from....me!
Can Boise and SDS ever be considered as options to expand the Pac 12 to 14?
Or are they too small.

[DC Muskie]

Today's dumb question comes from....me!
Can Boise and SDS ever be considered as options to expand the Pac 12 to 14?
Or are they too small.

The schools don't fit the bill as big research institutions if my mind remembers correctly.

It was the main reason BYU didn't get a call.

[GoMuskies]

Boise would be a lot better off in the Mountain West

Minus the rest of your nonsense, how on earth would this be true? Have you seen what's left in the MWC? The Big East is a much, much better league than the MW. WV or no WV. Especially without Pitt and Cuse.

[GoMuskies]

Today's dumb question comes from....me!
Can Boise and SDS ever be considered as options to expand the Pac 12 to 14?
Or are they too small.

Probably not for Boise. And what on earth would SDSU bring to the Pac 12? I can't really figure out why on earth the Big East grabbed them when Fresno State is out there.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Apparently ND being a tease is holding everything up right now. The new Big12 commish and the Texas President think they will actually land ND so the invites to interested ACC teams are on hold at the moment until ND decides. There's also speculation of GT and Maryland desperately trying to jump according to various blogs as well.

Paul, as for the Pac 12 question, they really blew it with expansion. They had Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech on a silver platter along with the opportunity to basically kill a rival conference. The school presidents voted it down. So shortsighted and they ended up with Utah and Colorado. As for Boise and SDSU, they'd have a very difficult time getting into the Pac12 because their academics are not up to par and schools like Stanford/Washington/Cal would veto them. Unfortunately there's really no other options out west for the Pac 12. I'm a Pac 12 fan but they really blew it

[xubrew]

Today's dumb question comes from....me!
Can Boise and SDS ever be considered as options to expand the Pac 12 to 14?
Or are they too small.

Most likely, their academic classification will keep them out. It's ultimately the presidents that make that call. Colorado is a prestigeious private university that got them into the Denver market. San Diego State and Boise, not so much.

[xubrew]

Probably not for Boise. And what on earth would SDSU bring to the Pac 12? I can't really figure out why on earth the Big East grabbed them when Fresno State is out there.

At leaset SDSU is in San Diego. If you have to travel all the way across the country, it's better to end up in San Diego than in Fresno.

On a serious note, I have no idea either.

[outsideobserver11]

Lot of talk that the BIG 12 is now considering staying at just 10 teams so that there conference champion doesn't get knocked out of the playoff with a loss in the Big 12 title game. No suprise as Texas is spearheading this.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Joe Schad ‏@schadjoe
There is expected to be No limitation of the number of teams from one conference on either the "Final Four" or the "BCS Games"

If SOS factors into the results a "Great deal" like I'm hearing, I would imagine a 1 loss SEC team would trump any undefeated ACC team most years

[_LH]

Lot of talk that the BIG 12 is now considering staying at just 10 teams so that there conference champion doesn't get knocked out of the playoff with a loss in the Big 12 title game. No suprise as Texas is spearheading this.

Can't they go to 12 or more even and just not play a B12 Title game?

[xudash]

Most likely, their academic classification will keep them out. It's ultimately the presidents that make that call. Colorado is a prestigeious private university that got them into the Denver market. San Diego State and Boise, not so much.

The University of Colorado in Boulder is public; it's Colorado's flagship university.

[xu95]

Yes. There is no rule saying you have to have a championship game. However, the conferences do have them because they bring in a boatload of money.

[_LH]

Yes. There is no rule saying you have to have a championship game. However, the conferences do have them because they bring in a boatload of money.

I know why they have had them in the past but conferences don't have to have one if they think it would knock out a team from the Final 4. I don't see the B12 staying at 10 teams because of that.

[xudash]

Minus the rest of your nonsense, how on earth would this be true? Have you seen what's left in the MWC? The Big East is a much, much better league than the MW. WV or no WV. Especially without Pitt and Cuse.

I understand you to be a UL fan. Personally, I believe UL has a lot to offer to the Big XII. Facilities for both football and basketball are top notch. Petrino demonstrated that UL is fully capable of loading up a talented roster and winning with the right coaching staff in place. So please understand that I have nothing against UL when I comment about the BE.

What I suggest you are blinding yourself to is the significance of the BE losing Pitt and Syracuse. It's about PROGRAMS and PROGRAM POTENTIAL with me, and I think with everyone and anyone responsible for determining television economics for all this.

If you take the position that Pitt is no big loss, then you know nothing about Pitt's football program. Particularly now, with Penn State sitting dead in the water with 3 torpedo holes in it, Pitt is at a point where it can firmly put itself back on the map. Let me put it to you this way: no one is going to confuse Pitt with the University of Houston when it comes to college football.

Boise State should stay in the MWC. Then it can schedule its first game TV thriller against some big name as usual. Otherwise, without moving to the BE, it could schedule UL and a Rutgers or UConn in its OOC schedule as well, before moving into MWC play.

The BE wasn't about improving SOS for BSU, it was about AQ at first, then it became about television money. With the most recent news, they have to be wondering what the latter will look like, now that the Big4 essentially have moved in a direction that lets them know they're no longer welcome at the table.

[GoMuskies]

Let me put it to you this way: no one is going to confuse Pitt with the University of Houston when it comes to college football.


No kidding. Houston actually wins occasionally.

You've apparently forgotten Houston's fine football tradition, too, if Pitt's is so important. Pitt is a lousy football program. Has been for about 20 years.

[DC Muskie]

Dash you don't really think Pitt is going to take off and soar now because Penn State has a new coach do you?

Pitt is terrible. You know who is worse than Pitt? Syracuse.

They are just names, not actual good programs with anything. They are going to a conference full of them now. NC State, Maryland, Virginia, Boston College.

The BE just shipped them off to the ACC. The BE is not worse off for not having them.

[Olsingledigit]

Any school that had to hire Dave Wannstedt, retreaded from both the Bears and Dolphins (fired from both I believe) is what I would call a great football tradition school.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Jay Drew ‏@drewjay
Bronco acknowledges BYU will probably have to go undefeated -- maybe twice -- against a good sched before making cfb Final Four.

-Coach for BYU

I would imagine ND would be in the same boat as well as every team in the Big East and ACC

I can see why the Big 12, SEC, and B1G are being contacted by everyone

[xudash]

No kidding. Houston actually wins occasionally.

You've apparently forgotten Houston's fine football tradition, too, if Pitt's is so important. Pitt is a lousy football program. Has been for about 20 years.

Houston's football tradition, which I didn't forget, because I didn't realize it had one in the first place:

First Season: 1946

Stadium: On campus; 32,000 capacity

All-time record 383–333–15 (.534)

Postseason bowl record 9–11–1

One Heisman Winner; no NCs.

Finally, it's telling that its main rival is listed as being Rice.


Pitt (I'm not a fan; again, just trying to be objective about these moves):

First Season: 1890

Stadium: Heinz Field (Steelers); 65,000

All-time record: 677–490–42 (.577)
Postseason bowl record: 12–16
Claimed national titles: 9

Major Rivals: West Virginia (Backyard Brawl), Penn State (Pitt–Penn State rivalry), Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cincinnati (River City Rivalry)

Some guy named Pop Warner was a coach there.

I absolutely agree that Pitt has made recent bad decisions with respect to picking a head coach and that its records have reflected that. But again, as a program, especially with respect to tradition and potential, Houston does not hold a candle to Pitt. It just doesn't.

Is Houston a good addition for the BE? Probably, under the circumstances, but in the context of that question, any program that kinda looks like UC's program, which Houston's program looks like, would be a good addition for the BE. Because the BE is otherwise losing its key programs to the ACC and Big XII and there is nothing out there to backfill with that can provide 50k plus seats/fans and a brand of national recognition.

[xudash]

Guys,

I'm not a Pitt fan. I'm not trying to defend Pitt specifically. I'm discussing Pitt in the context of whether or not its exit to the ACC constitutes a loss for the BE. You make valid points about Wannstedt. I can certainly accept an argument that suggests that Pitt is in no position to make any headway against Penn State in recruiting even with the current turmoil going on in Happy Valley.

The conversation is about conferences and the composition of them. I have to accept that things can certainly run in cycles and that up and coming programs can make their marks - Houston, USF (?), etc.

Yet, at the end of the day, Pitt decided to leave the BE for the ACC. The BE didn't kick them out. The former commish probably was on his knees, groveling with the Pitt Chancellor to stay. Pitt left the BE. Syracuse, a charter member of the conference, left the BE.

Notwithstanding recent results on the field, the BE WAS NOT ABLE to replace those programs with programs having the same brand recognition and appeal. Directional schools, a formerly disgraced program (SMU) and Houston are not home run replacements for the BE.

The BE was already wobbling at the table as one of 6 AQ conferences. I'm putting that politely. Now it has much as has been told it no longer will play in their sandbox, starting in 2014.

So play the games and we'll see what happens. In your case - BE school x, y or z - you'll need to run the table and then hope that things break the right way above you in the results put up by members of the Big4, in order to get a whiff of the Final 4 bracket.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

An interesting tidbit:

The Big12 Expansion committee consists of only 4 members. 1 from Texas, 1 from Oklahoma, 1 from Iowa State, and 1 from Kansas State.

The seems odd to me.


"New playoff system eliminates Have-nots"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/19427810/new-playoff-setup-eliminates-havenots-doesnt-quite-solve-the-problem


"Removing [AQ] labels doesn't remove the reality. A playoff probably lessens access for the sport's unwashed. At least makes it more uncertain. That selection committee? Its composition will have to reflect that the Big East is no longer considered a BCS-level conference. The ACC has become less of a factor. That Big Four -- Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC, Big 12 -- are calling the shots. To be precise, the commissioners of those leagues are calling the shots."

[GoMuskies]

Pitt (I'm not a fan; again, just trying to be objective about these moves):

First Season: 1890

Stadium: Heinz Field (Steelers); 65,000

All-time record: 677–490–42 (.577)
Postseason bowl record: 12–16
Claimed national titles: 9

Major Rivals: West Virginia (Backyard Brawl), Penn State (Pitt–Penn State rivalry), Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cincinnati (River City Rivalry)

Some guy named Pop Warner was a coach there.



So Pitt is Dayton, and will now have five rivals, two of which it will actually play. And it plays in a big, half-empty stadium. Congrats to the ACC on pulling off this coup.

[X-band '01]

Is the Pitt-UC rivalry going to continue when the Panthers join the ACC? It's a nice Big East rivalry but I don't think they met often (if at all) before UC joined the Big East.

[xudash]

I agree with both of you on the Pitt rivalry thing. That's what I get for using Wiki as the reference source.

Pitt and ND are fairly constant with one another, so you could argue two problematic programs going at it in that one. Of course, the backyard brawl with WVU is significant to people in Western PA and WV.

band, I agree with you on the idea that Pitt would punt UC once Pitt makes its move to the ACC.

GO, Pitt averaged 52k and change in 2010 (40th) to Houston's 31k and change (75th), per the NCAA data. The stadium holds 65k, so it wasn't half-empty, at least for the beginning of most of their games.

And you can stop selling on the idea that Houston has a great football tradition, or tradition of any kind in football. They cranked up football during the Truman administration and have never won a NC. Otherwise, as already noted, they've batted around .500 overall in the sport, and with a losing bowl record of what probably are mostly minor bowls anyway.

[GoMuskies]

I suppose Bill Yeoman is in the College Football Hall of Fame because Houston sucked during his 24 years there and only went to four Cotton Bowls.

[_LH]

Why didn't the ACC target Houston over Pitt?

[MHettel]

Most likely, their academic classification will keep them out. It's ultimately the presidents that make that call. Colorado is a prestigeious private university that got them into the Denver market. San Diego State and Boise, not so much.

Colorado isn't a private university.

[MHettel]

An interesting tidbit:

The Big12 Expansion committee consists of only 4 members. 1 from Texas, 1 from Oklahoma, 1 from Iowa State, and 1 from Kansas State.

The seems odd to me.


"New playoff system eliminates Have-nots"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/19427810/new-playoff-setup-eliminates-havenots-doesnt-quite-solve-the-problem

It's a committee. By definition, a comittee is a subset of a larger group, and this would be 33% of the larger group. They will make a recommendation only, based on direction given from teh larger group.

[xudash]

I suppose Bil Yeoman is in the College Football Hall of Fame because Houston sucked during his 24 years there and only went to four Cotton Bowls.

We don't really need to go back and forth on this. We're likely in the land of opinion on this as it is.

Seriously, I've never heard of Bil Yeoman.

If you choose to believe that Houston has more history and tradition than Pitt, in this case, then you are entitled to your opinion.

We appear to be well within 90 days of finding out just what the market thinks of the soon-to-be BE from a television value point of view. As I think we've already agreed, they should end up with more money than before simply due to a high demand for content (i.e. collegiate football programming). The BE's problem, as a conference, is that the money they'll end up with will be dwarfed by the ACC's money, which already is firmly in the rear view mirrors of the Big4.

They've already been shown the door by the Big4/5. Next up will be the competitive disadvantage it will face economically.

Can a school like UL survive in all that? Yes, but the odds drop for it ever making the championship game. But, IMO, at least UL has a chance because of its investments and fanbase. I answer a resounding "no" if we're talking about a UC, which is facing major budget pressure and a stadium solution that will never allow it to fully succeed.

[GoMuskies]

If you choose to believe that Houston has more history and tradition than Pitt, in this case, then you are entitled to your opinion.


Of course I don't think that. I also don't think Xavier has more history and tradition than CCNY or San Francisco. I just think that's mostly irrelevant.

The only point is that Houston does have a nice little football history of its own and has been at least as successful as Pitt since Dan Marino graduated. And that was a long ass time ago.

[xubrew]

The University of Colorado in Boulder is public; it's Colorado's flagship university.


Colorado isn't a private university.

Believe it or not, I actually did know that. I just mistyped.

[DC Muskie]

I'm not sure how the BE loses such important programs like Pitt and Syracuse, while the ACC gaining both said programs doesn't come close to what the other four conferences will do in football.

To me it's just moving the furniture around.

[xudash]

Believe it or not, I actually did know that. I just mistyped.

I figured you knew it, but I thought I would just put the minor correction out there.

[xudash]

I'm not sure how the BE loses such important programs like Pitt and Syracuse, while the ACC gaining both said programs doesn't come close to what the other four conferences will do in football.

To me it's just moving the furniture around.

It's all about context and the relative importance and potential of all these programs and how each conference's ultimate composition will fair with respect to television money and post-season success.

It was a big loss for the BE to lose them.

They were otherwise deemed respectable enough overall (athletic and academic profile/potential) for the ACC to shore itself up as it addresses its available responses to realignment.

Beyond that, bull programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Alabama and Florida probably barely noticed the movement, or certainly didn't care about it.

[DC Muskie]

If this was a basketball argument, the ACC did a heck of a job landing two really good programs.

They also provided travel partners for their very unhappy school BC. Academically, both programs are very solid.

But Pitt and Syracuse have been around for a long time. "Potential" is not something I would use to reference them. I can't remember the last time Syracuse had a winning season in football. Not looking it up, but what bowl game did they play in?

[GoMuskies]

Syracuse played in the Big Apple Bowl or whatever that cluster is called two years ago. Otherwise, they've been bad for awhile. They haven't been bad for as long as Pitt, but it's been awhile.

[Masterofreality]

Syracuse played in the Big Apple Bowl or whatever that cluster is called two years ago. Otherwise, they've been bad for awhile. They haven't been bad for as long as Pitt, but it's been awhile.

Oh, yeah. the coveted Pinstripe Bowl, where the Big Greased must have paid off a ref to make an excessive celebration call on a K State receiver after scoring a touchdown in the last minute. That basically gave Syracuse the ball in field goal range after the kickoff and they "won" by 2.

Another reason why I hate anything Big Least.

[X-band '01]

Who wants to walk into a recruit's room talking nonstop about Pinstripe Bowl appearances? Does it really matter if you win or lose that game? I actually LOVE the fact that the Big East is tied down to such a bowl game - normally you think of a nice winter getaway during bowl season like Miami or someplace in Florida.

About the only saving grace it could possibly have would be whatever prize package the players get for playing in the bowl game.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think that one's too bad. I mean, you're playing in Yankee Stadium, and it's NYC at Christmas. The one in Toronto (that I think the Big East is also tied to) on like January 7th is infinitely worse.

[X-band '01]

The International Bowl doesn't exist anymore. Can't blame Canada here.

[xudash]

http://outkickthecoverage.com/espn-fox-advising-big-12-on-expansion-adding-notre-dame.php

"I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you, that gambling is going on here..........."

[xubrew]

What is the intrigue of Notre Dame??

Whatever it is, it's not their accomplishments....because there really aren't any.

-In the last five years, they have not finished in the top 25, and have actually finished outside the top fifty three times.

-They have a 5-10 record against the Big Ten in that timespan, and their fixture games are Purdue, Michigan State and Michigan.

-Navy is another fixture game for them, and I believe the lost two out of their last three. I realize Navy is tough to beat (probably tougher than what they get credit for). It's not uncommon for them to scare the hell out of a major program, and it is difficult for them to get games agaisnt major programs, but still, they're not a major program.

-I don't even remember the last time they beat USC. The majority of those games haven't even been close.

-In the last twenty years, their most notable bowl win was probably against Miami in the Sun Bowl in 2010. It's not that they played great teams in big bowls and came up just short. It's that whenever they were selected for a big bowl, it was almost always over a team that was far more deserving, and then ND would proceed to get their doors blown off.

-Since the inception of the BCS, I count just four top thirty finishes. If they were to join the Big Twelve, they would lose handily against anyone who is above the middle of the pack. Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas (sort of), and TCU aren't just better than Notre Dame. They're A LOT better.

Texas Tech isn't tons better, but they are still better. I know ND has the fanbase and the intrigue (not sure why, but I do know they have it), but they are less accomplished than Texas Tech over the last five or six years. When it comes to the actual product being put on the field, ND is mediocre and doesn't really add anything.

[xubrew]

It turns out ND is averaging about one win against a ranked team every two years for the last decade. Their last road win against a team that actually finished the season in the rankings was in 2004 against Tennessee. Baylor has done better as of late.

Again, we're talking about a very underwhelming list of successes since the inception of the BCS. When you're beating one ranked team every two years, and never doing it on the road, there is a chance you might struggle in the Big Twelve.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Uh oh. Boise allegedly can't make up their mind. Today is the deadline for the MWC

BeyondUSports ‏@BeyondUSports
According to one report #BoiseState will remain in #MWC http://ow.ly/bW9pX is this for real? #BigEast

@murphsturph: Source: Boise State has not told Mountain West it is staying in conference

Jeremy Mauss ‏@JeremyMauss
Conflicting reports on Boise State staying in MWC. http://www.mwcconnection.com/2012/6/30/3128899/boise-state-staying-in-mountain-west-according-to-a-report

[xudash]

So, if Boise stays put, the television agreement for the BE should go to relative shiest, especially given that SDSU probably would stay put as well.

Seriously, I've come to see the unlikelihood of the BE hoops schools splitting away from the football schools, but, should BSU stay put, that's one more thing that would truly push them closer to having a reason to split.

Considering ND GONE from any scenario where it would stay with the BE in addition to a BSU no-show, perhaps they finally say screw it and finally do decide to split. Do the BE hoops schools have enough oomph to remain relevant if they're no longer tethered to big state schools? If they keep the BE brand and much of the checking account, then it will make for an enticing offer to Xavier, especially if ESPN is kind enough to have one of its secret meetings with Mike Bobinski and some of the ADs of these other schools.

Marquette certainly appears to have enough oomph. Villanova as well, even if they're left to clean up their on campus place instead of playing downtown. Georgetown? Certainly has the brand, but would have to survive without the tether of being associated with bigger state schools for once; they'll have to make it work through their NBA arena lease.

Hot fun in the summertime.

[GoMuskies]

Boise just doesn't have a home for their other sports locked up yet. That's the hold up.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Vegas TV station video saying Boise is staying in the MWC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-nk3WNGJ4&feature=player_embedded

[waggy]

That's a helluva link there Jimmy. Some guy in his living room videotaping his TV screen, and posting it to youtube. Local sports guy says "reliable source". Nothing from the horses mouth yet.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

That's a helluva link there Jimmy. Some guy in his living room videotaping his TV screen, and posting it to youtube. Local sports guy says "reliable source". Nothing from the horses mouth yet.

haha. Boise may have the worst(or best) PR I've ever seen when it comes to this realignment. No one in the media has any idea what they will do

[waggy]

I wonder what the true deadline is for the MWC. If Boise wants (needs) to come back, the MWC has to accomodate them.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Boise is leaving the MWC for the Big East...Official.
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/boise-state-beats-deadline-will-leave-mountain-west-160977565.html

Barely beat the deadline

They still don't have a conference for their non football sports though

[xubrew]

I wonder what the true deadline is for the MWC. If Boise wants (needs) to come back, the MWC has to accomodate them.

The new athletic year starts on July 1st. As of midnight, it is now officially the 2012-2013 athletic year. Had they waited, they would have officially had to wait another year to move to the Big East.

[Masterofreality]

That Boise State/Central Florida matchup will be epic.....in all sports.

Can't wait to see that on "Big Monday"!

[X-band '01]

I didn't see anything about Boise moving all sports to the Big East - as far as I know their move is still football-only.

[UCGRAD4X]

I didn't see anything about Boise moving all sports to the Big East - as far as I know their move is still football-only.

The article says the move is "primarily" for the football program. That seems to indicate other programs are moving also.

[GoMuskies]

The other programs are moving. Just not to the Big East.

[xudash]

The other programs are moving. Just not to the Big East.

They needed to have the solution for the other sports figured out by now. The fact that it hasn't been figured out by now doesn't bode well for those sports.

The WCC doesn't want them. The Mountain West conference certainly isn't going to allow them to stay there. The PAC 12 obviously isn't going to let them in.

Stay tuned I guess.

[GoMuskies]

They'll end up in the Big West. Worst case they just stick with whatever the WAC becomes.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith
if the numbers i just got are accurate, each Big 12 team would have received 11.4 mill from last yrs playoff model - ACC 2.5 per team #$$$$

[xudash]

Ingram Smith ‏@IngramSmith
if the numbers i just got are accurate, each Big 12 team would have received 11.4 mill from last yrs playoff model - ACC 2.5 per team #$$$$

Ouch.

Conference realignment = Resetting expectations for your favorite program. Some setting them upward and the rest setting them not so much upward.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Ouch.

Conference realignment = Resetting expectations for your favorite program. Some setting them upward and the rest setting them not so much upward.

Unless the FSU President or board are mentally handicapped, I would assume its just a matter of time(2013 or 2014) before they jump to the Big 12(assuming they get the invite). They'd be crazy to choose the ACC over the Big 12

[xudash]

Unless the FSU President or board are mentally handicapped, I would assume its just a matter of time(2013 or 2014) before they jump to the Big 12(assuming they get the invite). They'd be crazy to choose the ACC over the Big 12

I agree completely. The key, burning issue is whether or not the invite ultimately shows up. Can the Big XII stay at 10 and accomplish its goals for whatever the BCS distributions will be called, as well for television revenue?

It's not a given the Big XII will expand from here. God help the ACC if it does.

[DC Muskie]

What do you guys think of this? (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19544866)

How does this change things? Or does it?

[GoMuskies]

It changes everything. This means the ACC and Notre Dame will be a combined .500 in BCS bowl games. That is a huge leap forward for both parties!

[DC Muskie]

It changes everything. This means the ACC and Notre Dame will be a combined .500 in BCS bowl games. That is a huge leap forward for both parties!

Does that prevent them from joining the Big 12?

[xudash]

What do you guys think of this? (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19544866)

How does this change things? Or does it?

They say things run in cycles. The Orange Bowl had better hope so.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

ND is the ultimate tease. They think they are way hotter than they actually are. They are playing everyone it seems like. Texas is so obsessed with ND that they are willing to halt all alignment including FSU until they decide(allegedly). Unreal

'ACC/ND affiliation grow legs'

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/sport/inside-notre-dames-fighting-irish/rumours-surround-accnotre-dame-affiliation-grow-legs---video-161818275.html

'FSU BOT Chair - "Adding ND would be Super'"

http://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1268001

Looks like The ACC President is really going all out to keep FSU and the rest. They offered WVU to join ACC instead of Big 12, WVU turned it down. Now ND in all sports but Bball.


From all indications the ACC isn't done expanding.

During a conference call with the media on Sunday, ACC commissioner John Swofford left the door open for two more schools to join and bring the membership up to 16. Several schools have been mentioned as possibilities to fill the final two slots including Texas, Connecticut, Penn State, Notre Dame and Rutgers. West Virginia was also a possibility but a recent application from the school to join the ACC was reportedly turned down.




http://www.clemson.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1383038

"Something in the works? ACC Presidents meet with ND"

[bleedXblue]

ND is smart and they have a huge following and sweet TV deal.

Why share it with anyone ?


Or, you could subscribe to the theory that since you've been a mediocre program for the last 10-15 years, that now may be the time to partner up with a big conference before you start to lose any more interest in your program.

I dont know the length or terms of the TV deal currently, but would think that when it comes time to renegotiate, the offer wont be as sweet as it's been in the past

[nkymuskie]

Being a ND fan whose been going to games for as long as I can remember I really hope they stay out of a conference. The independence adds a little mystique to the program.

The ND of my lifetime has not been the ND that my dad grew up following. The entire landscape of college football has changed and to be real honest even joining a conference still won't move ND out of northern Indiana. It's hard to compete with the SEC schools and the West coast schools when the talent isn't just growing right in your backyard. ND did just get the commitment of one of the top 10 players in the country though, depending on the recruiting service out of Fort Wayne. Elite talent like that doesn't usually pop up in ND's backyard.

Brian Kelly has done an unbelievable job of recruiting kids from all over the country. He already has 17 or 18 kids committed for 2013 and 2 for 2014. If we can just find a QB that isn't Tommy Rees we stand to have a pretty decent season even with a tough early schedule. Kelly definitely has the program going in the right direction.

As to the TV contract, it is up in 2015 and from the last I heard ND is pretty close to resigning with NBC. I will be quite disappointed in ND if they are no longer on TV nearly every week.

[GoMuskies]

I will be quite disappointed in ND if they are no longer on TV nearly every week.

Everyone is on TV every week. I live in Wichita and can watch all 12 Louisville football games on TV this (and every) year.

[Porkopolis]

Everyone is on TV every week. I live in Wichita and can watch all 12 Louisville football games on TV this (and every) year.

Just be glad you aren't a Marshall fan. When our games aren't part of the C-USA national deal with CBS, The Herd gets shown on Comcast Sports South. Tremendous news if you are a Marshall alum with Comcast and live in the south, not so much if you live anywhere else. Not only that but the stupid pay-per-view internet broadcast offered by the school never works. And they started blacking out internet radio feeds other than the university's own station. I have hated every second of the C-USA tv deal; it is hard to believe I had it better in the MAC. <rant over>

[Masterofreality]

. ND did just get the commitment of one of the top 10 players in the country though, depending on the recruiting service out of Fort Wayne. Elite talent like that doesn't usually pop up in ND's backyard.

Brian Kelly has done an unbelievable job of recruiting kids from all over the country. He already has 17 or 18 kids committed for 2013 and 2 for 2014. If we can just find a QB that isn't Tommy Rees we stand to have a pretty decent season even with a tough early schedule. Kelly definitely has the program going in the right direction.


No offense, NYKY, but so now the story is that there were no "Top Recruits" coming to the Firish until BK got there and that is why they lost?

All I heard was that every class recruited by Insert Coach Name Here was a Top 5 recruiting class and if only Insert Current Coach Name Here had been the coach when Insert "Top" Recruit's Name Here was a frosh that he would have been the superstar that was projected and Not-re Dome would have been National Champs. Which is it?

Now Tommy Rees is the problem. Cheez. ND honks have more excuses than a kid who peed in the pool.

[nkymuskie]

No offense, NYKY, but so now the story is that there were no "Top Recruits" coming to the Firish until BK got there and that is why they lost?

All I heard was that every class recruited by Insert Coach Name Here was a Top 5 recruiting class and if only Insert Current Coach Name Here had been the coach when Insert "Top" Recruit's Name Here was a frosh that he would have been the superstar that was projected and Not-re Dome would have been National Champs. Which is it?

Now Tommy Rees is the problem. Cheez. ND honks have more excuses than a kid who peed in the pool.

I can't really speak for the Bob Davey era but Ty was not a very good recruiter or motivator. He was a decent X and O guy but he just didn't bring in elite level recruits. Charlie was an amazing recruiter but he never surrounded himself with the defensive coaches to make ND a top tier team. He was able to bring in the players but lacked the support staff to develop them on the other side of the ball. They won their games by scoring lots and lots of touchdowns and only giving up lots of touchdowns.

Coming into Kelly's 3rd season he has shown that he and his staff is tireless on the recruiting trail. He has been able to surround himself with some great defensive minded coaches who have been able to produce some pretty decent defenses. Surprisingly it's been his offense that has been where he has been lacking. Kelly wants to run a spread offense with the ability to throw the option in there every now and then. Up until this year he has not had the QB to run his style of offense and so they have struggled. Anyone who watches any high level college football can tell that Rees has no business being the starting QB at ND. He just doesn't have the physical skills to compete at this level on a successful team. He's gutsy, but gutsy can only get you so far. Hopefully Everret Golson can come in and be as good as everyone says he is because he is a prototypical Kelly spread QB. We will see.

[Cheesehead]

No offense, NYKY, but so now the story is that there were no "Top Recruits" coming to the Firish until BK got there and that is why they lost?

All I heard was that every class recruited by Insert Coach Name Here was a Top 5 recruiting class and if only Insert Current Coach Name Here had been the coach when Insert "Top" Recruit's Name Here was a frosh that he would have been the superstar that was projected and Not-re Dome would have been National Champs. Which is it?

Now Tommy Rees is the problem. Cheez. ND honks have more excuses than a kid who peed in the pool.

Agreed. Never understood the ND hype. Of course my mother tainted my view of ND by telling me stories of sharing trains w/ ND students and she said she never met a more arrogant group of people. BTW, my mother would fall in the saint category. Attended Benedictine College in KS and was a lifelong backer of the the Jesuits. Was also a Kindergarten teacher for MPS (Milwaukee). I am just re-telling one great woman's opinion.

Feel free to discuss.

[bleedXblue]

It's the curse of Lou Holtz


He was a great coach and ND in their infinite wisdom decided the ywere better off without him.


The havent been the same program since.

[paulxu]

ND honks have more excuses than a kid who peed in the pool.

But they still have a ways to go to catch the Criers.


It's the curse of Lou Holtz

So he went to the Gamecocks. But now we've got the Ol' Ball Coach.

[Olsingledigit]

Everett Golson is a sophomore, so he did not get the chance as a freshman. Some of my avid ND grad football fan friends are not high on him - not sure why not. He looked to be by far the best in the spring game.

[Masterofreality]

I can't really speak for the Bob Davey era but Ty was not a very good recruiter or motivator. He was a decent X and O guy but he just didn't bring in elite level recruits. Charlie was an amazing recruiter but he never surrounded himself with the defensive coaches to make ND a top tier team. He was able to bring in the players but lacked the support staff to develop them on the other side of the ball.

Ok, how many things can I say about the above?

When Fat Charlie was hired, Brady Quinn and Jeff Samardzija were already there. I guess that they just showed up and Ty had nothing to do with them coming. Fat Charlie went 9-2 and 10-2 wiith Ty's players. Soooo,....Ty couldn't recruit?

Then every year under Fat Charlie, ND allegedly had one of the Top rated recruiting classes, just go back and look at every ND honks posts on this and other boards. Whether the recruiting gurus were right, and I think that they're full of crap, is a question for debate. So, now it is that he " lacked a support staff?" ND spent $40 million on a 10 year contract for Fattie. Think that they didn't put any money into a "support staff"?

Finally, Weiss was an "amazing recruiter?". Well, as soon as Ty's players graduated, right away, Charlie's amazing players went 3-9 and 6-6 the next two years with those amazin's.

I guess I will agree that his coaching hires on the defensive side were underwhelming, but what else can you expect from a guy given a 10 year contract?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

If anyone gets bored, here's some forum speculation links discussing re-aligment

'Big 12 Conference Talk'
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582

'Texas Longhorns Talk'
http://www.hornsports.com/forums/big-xii-board-conference-realignment-62/

'The Boneyard'
http://the-boneyard.com/forums/conference-realignment-board.15/

[paulxu]

I'm not following the stuff very closely. I'm still trying to figure out why Alabama didn't come into the SEC east. Stated reason was Tenn rivalry preservation. Crap.

Anyway, if Big 10/Pac 10 have their designated bowl, SEC/Big 12 have their bowl, and the ACC organizes one with ND....doesn't that leave the BigLeast hanging in some sort of wind?

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I'm not following the stuff very closely. I'm still trying to figure out why Alabama didn't come into the SEC east. Stated reason was Tenn rivalry preservation. Crap.

Anyway, if Big 10/Pac 10 have their designated bowl, SEC/Big 12 have their bowl, and the ACC organizes one with ND....doesn't that leave the BigLeast hanging in some sort of wind?

ESPN is setting their target sights on the Big East. They are actively working behind the scenes to get UL/UConn/Rutgers/ND to leave. Word is They helped PItt/WVU/Syracuse leave as well

Even the BC AD admitted that the expansion was nudged by ESPN.

[paulxu]

What happens to their over-hyped BB league if they get all those people to bail?

[xudash]

You'll enjoy this one. I had lunch today with a nice young man ('bama graduate) who had worked in Alabama's AD and then for the SEC in digital media. He's now working an internship here in Ponte Vedra, trying to get into the PGA on a permanent basis.

We were talking about realignment and I asked him his thoughts about it. He feels strongly about a direction that ends up with 4 super conferences of 16 each, but he believes the SEC will digest what its done to-date over the next 5 years.

However, when they make their move to 16, he flat out stated that one idea the SEC is considering is to add..........wait for it..........UNC and Duke.

Why?:

Increase academic profile.
Increase basketball strength.


Obviously, such a move would rip at the heart of the ACC.

Hadn't heard that one before, but the SEC knows that it already is beyond strong enough in football and that a little academic and hoops boost can't hurt.

[UCGRAD4X]

ESPN is setting their target sights on the Big East. They are actively working behind the scenes to get UL/UConn/Rutgers/ND to leave. Word is They helped PItt/WVU/Syracuse leave as well

Even the BC AD admitted that the expansion was nudged by ESPN.

I don't understand how this benefits ESPN.

[X-band '01]

Given their hoops contracts with the ACC, it's not inconceivable that the ACC will now be the favored network of *$** instead of the Big East.

[Masterofreality]

Given their hoops contracts with the ACC, it's not inconceivable that the ACC will now be the favored network of *$** instead of the Big East.

Ding, Ding Ding......We have a winner, winner Chicken Dinner!!!!

Suck it SucKS!!!!

[X-band '01]

That would be Phase I.

Phase II would be dismantling the ACC with the departures of Florida State, Clemson, UNC and Duke. The SEC has the motherlode of all conference contracts at this point.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

You'll enjoy this one. I had lunch today with a nice young man ('bama graduate) who had worked in Alabama's AD and then for the SEC in digital media. He's now working an internship here in Ponte Vedra, trying to get into the PGA on a permanent basis.

We were talking about realignment and I asked him his thoughts about it. He feels strongly about a direction that ends up with 4 super conferences of 16 each, but he believes the SEC will digest what its done to-date over the next 5 years.

However, when they make their move to 16, he flat out stated that one idea the SEC is considering is to add..........wait for it..........UNC and Duke.

Why?:

Increase academic profile.
Increase basketball strength.


Obviously, such a move would rip at the heart of the ACC.

Hadn't heard that one before, but the SEC knows that it already is beyond strong enough in football and that a little academic and hoops boost can't hurt.

Interesting. I knew the SEC was already hating the 14 team unbalanced schedule and wanted into the NC market, just never thought they would seriously look at UNC/Duke over NC State. UNC I could understand a lot more than Duke


I don't understand how this benefits ESPN.

Basically ESPN was trying to thwart a potential rival BE/NBC-Comcast deal. So by convincing Syracuse/Pitt to leave to the ACC(Who ESPN just happens to have a TV contract with), the deal is now worth substantially less. That is also why they are now trying to get ND, UConn, UL, and Rutgers to leave.

"ESPN told the ACC which teams to take from the Big East"
http://www.businessinsider.com/scandal-espn-told-acc-which-teams-to-take-from-big-east-conference-2011-10


The money quotes:

BC athletic director Gene DeFilippo, who was part of the 12-member ACC expansion committee, adamantly denied that the move was dictated by basketball interests, but he did concede that the effects of it may boost that sport more than football.

“It had nothing to do with basketball,’’ said DeFilippo. “It was football money which drove expansion. It was football money and securing our future.’’

DeFilippo said the move was dictated in part by the expansion of the Southeastern Conference to include Texas A&M, which prompted the Big 12 to inquire about Pittsburgh, which is in the Northeast, an area in which the ACC felt it necessary to expand.

…

The ACC just signed a new deal with ESPN that will increase the revenue for each school to approximately $13 million. With the addition of Pittsburgh and Syracuse, said DeFilippo, another significant increase will come.

“We always keep our television partners close to us,’’ he said. “You don’t get extra money for basketball. It’s 85 percent football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing to do with basketball.’’

Why is Disney – via ABC and ESPN – instructing a conference expansion committee on which teams to include and which to leave out? The Big East has been the victim of ACC poaching in the past. Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech all defected amid very bad blood and rather ugly legal disputes. The current round of hunting on posted land lands a historically powerful but recently weak Pitt football program and a Syracuse program that’s had only flashes of success. Left behind was UConn.

[bobbiemcgee]

Not sure why anyone would be surprised. TV money will always rule. Simple. You want the money, you do what they want. Just like Congress.

[Masterofreality]

Meanwhile, and this is all I care about,

NO ONE WANTS SucKS!

So suck it Borecat fan!!

[xudash]

Meanwhile, and this is all I care about,

NO ONE WANTS SucKS!

So suck it Borecat fan!!

You don't have to not like UC to objectively understand how poorly positioned it is in all this.

UC was dead on arrival because of Nippert and its small fanbase.

Give UC credit for its string of four or so most recent coaching hires, but even they confirm UC as the stepping stone that it is in football.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Some interesting tidbits today:

The last date for withdrawal from the ACC is August 15. Anything that will/won't happen has to happen before that date. From everything I've read, almost every team from the ACC would go to the Big 12 if invited (Maryland, FSU, GT, VT, Miami) as well as UL. The Big 12 is hesitating to extend invites because they think they can land ND. Some people say its Texas waiting on ND, some say its Oklahoma, some say its both. Regardless, the general consensus is that they will wait for ND to decide(which could take millenniums)

Meanwhile ND is telling the ACC and the Big 12 that they are serious about joining. I think that's just an attempt to improve their NBC deal in 2015 but you never know with the Olympic sports

[xudash]

Some interesting tidbits today:

The last date for withdrawal from the ACC is August 15. Anything that will/won't happen has to happen before that date. From everything I've read, almost every team from the ACC would go to the Big 12 if invited (Maryland, FSU, GT, VT, Miami) as well as UL. The Big 12 is hesitating to extend invites because they think they can land ND. Some people say its Texas waiting on ND, some say its Oklahoma, some say its both. Regardless, the general consensus is that they will wait for ND to decide(which could take millenniums)

Meanwhile ND is telling the ACC and the Big 12 that they are serious about joining. I think that's just an attempt to improve their NBC deal in 2015 but you never know with the Olympic sports

I don't see any more movement this year. Florida State's Board of Trustees doesn't meet again until September, so I do not see anything happening with them.

I wonder if there is a modified exit fee for Notre Dame with respect to leaving the Big East with its Olympic sports. A lot of this has turned into being about flying around for a whole lot of money.

[DC Muskie]

This is probably a question that can never be answered...but....

What happens if by some chance, the NCAA levels the death penalty on Penn State? Not football would mean a huge opening at one of the four places at the head table.

Could you guys see something like this unfolding? Or at the very least, throwing a huge monkey wrench into the situation?

[paulxu]

Syracuse to ACC in 2013.

Pitt probably will go then also.

Hello Boise State!! What a screwed up deal college sports is.

[GoMuskies]

So the Big East gets better in 2013 by dumping Syracuse and Pitt on the ACC and gets $15 million. What a country!

[Masterofreality]

So the Big East gets better in 2013 by dumping Syracuse and Pitt on the ACC and gets $15 million. What a country!

The Big Least gets better?

What? Certainly not in basketball. In football, who the F cares?

[GoMuskies]

Football is all that matters in this.

[xudash]

This is probably a question that can never be answered...but....

What happens if by some chance, the NCAA levels the death penalty on Penn State? Not football would mean a huge opening at one of the four places at the head table.

Could you guys see something like this unfolding? Or at the very least, throwing a huge monkey wrench into the situation?

Heard a couple of the ESPN talking heads opining on that today.

Penn State is similar to Ohio State in the specific respect that it is the biggest show in a big, industrial state. Consider that point as you otherwise consider Michigan with UM and MSU, as an example.

So, assuming Penn State is given the death penalty and assuming that death penalty lasts for, say two years, I could see the B1G taking no action, other than to eliminate Penn State from the distribution pool for the duration of its time off the field. In other words, Penn State is too big and too well entrenched in football to be taken out for 24 or even 36 months and not come back at full support levels from its fanbase, etc.

No one steps in, Penn State is cut out of the money during the death sentence, and they pick up where they left off - with an entirely new coaching staff and without a certain statue standing out in front of Beaver Stadium.

[paulxu]

Admittedly I haven't been keeping up on all the Penn State stuff.
I think they ought to put everyone responsible for leaving Sandusky around to molest kids in jail. I'd do the same to the biships who kept shuffling the priests around.

But what good does the death penalty do? Seems like it punishes the kids and program that had nothing to do with the criminal acts.

If the acts had been athletic related, some advantage with recruits/players, bootsters giving cash to players, yady, yady...ok, then punish the program for lack of institutional control.

But these were criminal acts that had nothing to do with the team/players. Just turn the law loose on the criminals. (and tear down the statue)