Gonzaga and Butler agree to two-year series

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Per Matt N/CBS Sports....



Gonzaga and Butler agree to two-year series


The two most endearing, identifiable non-BCS programs in college basketball have finally agreed to a home-and-home.

And this is no scheduling tweak that causes fans to wait more than a year; Butler and Gonzaga will play each other this upcoming season and the next. This year's game will be played Dec. 20.




***Some speculation/backstory on how this came to be ... Gonzaga clearly postponed its series with Memphis in an attempt to make this short-term duel with Butler possible. The school won't directly admit that, but that seems to be what's at play here. Gonzaga had been thumped by the Tigers, going 1-5 the past six seasons. But it all worked out well for everyone involved, because Memphis picked up the other big non-BCS school with national appeal: Xavier. It's a good trade-off.






Link to entire article.....



http://college-basketball-blog.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/30472694

[drudy23]

O geez...how long before someone comments on the first line of the article.

3...2...1...

[danaandvictory]

The use of the word "endearing" is what pisses me off. "Look at those CUTE WIDDLE PWOGRWAMS!" No one calls North Carolina "endearing."

[XUFan09]

The use of the word "endearing" is what pisses me off. "Look at those CUTE WIDDLE PWOGRWAMS!" No one calls North Carolina "endearing."

Fine by me, if they just refer to Gonzaga and Butler (which they might not be). Then we would be grouped with Memphis as a "big non-BCS school with national appeal."

[blobfan]

O geez...how long before someone comments on the first line of the article.

3...2...1...

Can't comment. Still choking on vomit.

[SixFig]

I really look forward to going 3-0 against the "endearing, identifiable" non-BCS programs.

Gonzaga...dead
Memphis...dead
Butler...dead

[HuskyMuskie]

This is what happens when you people buy in to the "GO BUTLER!" happy-happy-cute-little-non-BCS-school story. Who gives a damn.

I hope Gonzaga wins by 60.

[ThePowerOfX]

I hope Gonzaga wins by 60.

I hope the gym implodes at tip off

[BBC 08]

Lets go, meteor! clap-clap-clap,clap,clap

[Muskied]

Could not agree more...I hope Butler crumbles... I hope we beat them by 168 points, and tear out their new water fountain. I hope Jordan Crawford schools Mack so bad in practice he doesn't make the Wizzards. F Butler. If I didn't respect their head coach, I'd hope for much worse.

[HuskyMuskie]

Buck Futler and I are starting the Anti-Butler revolution. Anyone else who cares to join can jump on the bandwagon.

...:D

[XULucho27]

At least the author mentioned how the Zags bailed on the Memphis series and that they've been getting owned by them for the past 6 games.

My take is that they didn't want to get thumped by both Memphis and Xavier this year, so they postpone the Memphis series and pick one up against a "known" name that won't be nearly as good next year, also giving them a chance to win a top-Non-Big Six matchup (as opposed to losing both...badly :) ).

I'll be pulling for the Zags, but I'll still lay some money down on some unspecified cataclysmic event that evaporates all hope of having a winner in that matchup.

[JTG]

The use of the word "endearing" is what pisses me off. "Look at those CUTE WIDDLE PWOGRWAMS!" No one calls North Carolina "endearing."

Translation : Both Butler and Gonzaga have lots of white guys who look more like computer nerds than bball players.

[Masterofreality]

The only endearing thing of this whole scenario is that at the end, one of these poseurs will lose.

[Emp]

I continue to be baffled by the growing anti-Butler undertow here. Good team, small school, no one's in trouble, actual student athletes. Long time fierce rival. So things went awry once upon a time in one game in a galaxy far far away. We've had great games with Butler since before Matta played for them. We can actually go as Xavier Nation to an away game on our schedule, a very rare thing at high level Div 1 basketball.

Doesn't Butler vs Gonzaga help our RPI?

Final Four Envy is not very becoming. Having to get a mad-on to get up for playing Butler is ludicrous.

[bobbiemcgee]

Yeah, i don't get it either. Someone (Mario and Co.) worked their butts off to make our series happen. Great games. Great rivalry. Great players. Great coaches. Great hype. National attention. Having Butler on the schedule improves our program. Sure, I want to kick their ass every year but not a hater.

:logo:

[Muskied]

Yeah, i don't get it either. Someone (Mario and Co.) worked their butts off to make our series happen. Great games. Great rivalry. Great players. Great coaches. Great hype. National attention. Having Butler on the schedule improves our program. Sure, I want to kick their ass every year but not a hater.

:logo:

Love the game, love the schedule boost, respect Butler...it's all about their fan base...during my latest encounter, someone found out I went to Xavier in conversation and lashed out with "Xavier, is that a school? Or just still a bunch of punks". They're having trouble acting like they've been there before....not saying Xavier fans are always gentleman, but the fans have given me enough reason to hate them.

[HuskyMuskie]

I continue to be baffled by the growing anti-Butler undertow here. Good team, small school, no one's in trouble, actual student athletes. Long time fierce rival. So things went awry once upon a time in one game in a galaxy far far away. We've had great games with Butler since before Matta played for them. We can actually go as Xavier Nation to an away game on our schedule, a very rare thing at high level Div 1 basketball.

Doesn't Butler vs Gonzaga help our RPI?

Final Four Envy is not very becoming. Having to get a mad-on to get up for playing Butler is ludicrous.


I encourage you to wear a Xavier shirt to Hinkle Fieldhouse this winter. Anyone who has been to a Butler game in Hinkle knows that they don't even boo their conference rival UWGB NEAR as loudly as they do Xavier. They hate us, envied us, and now its backwards. Jealous of their runs? Absolutely. But is it my reasoning for hating them? Absolutely not. Just as so many before you have stated, it is ALL about their fans being"in-your-face" Butler people, and more times than not, anti-Xavier people.

Those who say otherwise are either not from Indiana, don't know Butler fans, or are just very, very ignorant. Pick one.

[StanleyOwnsYou]

I really look forward to going 3-0 against the "endearing, identifiable" non-BCS programs.

Gonzaga...dead
Memphis...dead
Butler...dead

1:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

[paulxu]

What are the chances they'll purchase a Precision Time System before we get there?

[xubrew]

The Gonzaga v Memphis series has always been on the weekend of the Bracket Buster, which was the perfect timeslot for that game. Most of the WCC participated in the Buster, but Gonzaga did not. The problem is that with BYU joining the WCC, and the league having 9 teams/16 games instead of 8/14, they were unsure if the league was going to continue to participate, and therefore that date wouldn't be open for Gonzaga like it used to be.

They could have continued to play at another date, but it wasn't as simple and straightforward as before. Both teams like to load up their OOC schedules. It was a great series, and I hope they continue it some day, but I don't it was so much that they dumped Memphis with the intention of replacing them with Butler.

Gonzaga v Butler is a good series. It's good that Xavier plays both of them. The games with Butler have been especially good. I'd like to see them as a fixture on our schedule and hope we continue it after this year. Same with Gonzaga.

[xudash]

Back-to-back F4 appearances for Butler.

ESPN West Coast darling is Gonzaga.

Xavier.

Which of those three schools do you honestly believe has the best basketball program ("best" means sustainable for high level success)?

[Emp]

I encourage you to wear a Xavier shirt to Hinkle Fieldhouse this winter. Anyone who has been to a Butler game in Hinkle knows that they don't even boo their conference rival UWGB NEAR as loudly as they do Xavier. They hate us, envied us, and now its backwards. Jealous of their runs? Absolutely. But is it my reasoning for hating them? Absolutely not. Just as so many before you have stated, it is ALL about their fans being"in-your-face" Butler people, and more times than not, anti-Xavier people.

Those who say otherwise are either not from Indiana, don't know Butler fans, or are just very, very ignorant. Pick one.

The answer to your question is "none of the above."

Wow, an expert from row 116. I've been going to games at Butler regularly since the 80s. I practice in and am otherwise in Indy enough to know a fair number of Butler fans. I always wear my Xavier gear at Hinkle, no one has ever accosted me because of it. Much safer than Dayton arena. No one jostles me in the halftime lines in the pisser, a la Shoe. I always chat up the fans around me and in the aisles before, during and after the game. I have gotten some push back from a small percentage who dont wanna make nice, and just walk away from it. But generally good Indiana basketball fans, know our history and our players.

People are people, human nature is human nature, and one tends to get back what one gives. "Everyone" doesn't remotely feel the way you feel. So consider, just for a moment, why are you attracting in your face fans, when others of us aren't.

The Butler fans have "come lately" to the loudness factor, aside from the students behind the basket (who were light years ahead of Xavier students with the ferocious taunting)l but wow, they boo us for being fierce rivals? We're the only rival that remotely shows up in big numbers at Hinkle. If 5000 Dayton fans were seated in Cintas, do you think there might be a few hotheads from X not making nice?

Learning how to deal with a rivalry is part of growing up.

[Muskied]

Learning how to deal with a rivalry is part of growing up.

Learning how to deal with winning is part of growing up too....this is the problem I have with their fans, and it's only been the past 2 years....I can't say I've ever had a problem at Hinkle, because my visits there preceded the final 4s. However, fan encounters have been ridiculous since then.

I can't even carry on basketball conversations with them, because they are detached from reality...and maybe that's what happens with that success. I can't talk about recruiting because Butler has better players, no matter their rankings. I can't talk about coaching, because Brad Stevens will never leave Butler..in fact, he will never die, or even turn 35 years old. I can't talk conferences, because conference play doesn't matter. I can't talk arenas cuz the Cintas isn't historical. I can't talk about NBA players, history, rankings, attendance..nothing...you don't need any of it to get to 2 national championship games, and as far as they are concerned, they are the 3rd best program in the country until proven different...and they think it's illogical to discuss otherwise.....

Again, this is the reason why I want to beat the living crap out of them. To prove, if for one night, they aren't the 3rd best team in the country, and if they are, Xavier is in the top 2.

[bobbiemcgee]

I grew up a couple miles from BU. Worked @ the old outdoor theatre selling popcorn for 15cents a bag back in the day. Sold concessions @ Hinkle. Got suspended from school when I was 12 for skipping to go to the HS Sectionals. Played football every day of vacation out in front of the Student Union. Always treated well there . My sister went to BU. I still want to kick their ass in BB.

Gator Football and anybody they play........now there's some hateful venom.

[paulxu]

Gator Football and anybody they play........now there's some hateful venom.

The Gamecocks understand this sentence.

Hey, since you use to work at Hinkle, call somebody up and get them the Precision Time System to help us all out.

[Emp]

Learning how to deal with winning is part of growing up too....this is the problem I have with their fans, and it's only been the past 2 years....I can't say I've ever had a problem at Hinkle, because my visits there preceded the final 4s. However, fan encounters have been ridiculous since then.

I can't even carry on basketball conversations with them, because they are detached from reality...and maybe that's what happens with that success. I can't talk about recruiting because Butler has better players, no matter their rankings. I can't talk about coaching, because Brad Stevens will never leave Butler..in fact, he will never die, or even turn 35 years old. I can't talk conferences, because conference play doesn't matter. I can't talk arenas cuz the Cintas isn't historical. I can't talk about NBA players, history, rankings, attendance..nothing...you don't need any of it to get to 2 national championship games, and as far as they are concerned, they are the 3rd best program in the country until proven different...and they think it's illogical to discuss otherwise.....

Again, this is the reason why I want to beat the living crap out of them. To prove, if for one night, they aren't the 3rd best team in the country, and if they are, Xavier is in the top 2.

I'm sure that if Xavier had been to the title game two years running, there wouldn't be any obnoxious Xavier fans.

It certainly sounds like you want to talk about why Xavier is better than Butler, to a Butler fan; and you want them to concede that Xavier is better. If this is your goal, and your approach, you are inviting push back, and deservedly so. Butler's results the last two seasons are superior to Xavier's, just a fact.

I don't try to talk about what team or program is better with any fan, especially in their house. I ask what their opinions are about matchups in the game, whether a tightly-called game will favor one team or the other, who wants a game in the 50, 60s, 70s; will Xavier or Butler have to use a zone. Things that basketballfans talk about, regardless of the intensity of team support/fanaticism. If you don't want to meet people with different points of view and make basketball a bridge to your own personal growth, have at your mad-on and choose to get in shouting matches. It's symptomatic of pandemic chauvinism these days. If you don't wanna get along, if you need "the other" to be evil and bad, then your approach works fine. It's the same thinking that has Catlicks fighting Prods, Shiites hammering Sunnis...........over meaningless points of "difference."

[GoMuskies]

I don't try to talk about what team or program is better with any fan, especially in their house. I ask what their opinions are about matchups in the game, whether a tightly-called game will favor one team or the other, who wants a game in the 50, 60s, 70s; will Xavier or Butler have to use a zone.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What do you do when they wake up?

[Muskied]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What do you do when they wake up?

Seriously...

Perhaps you haven't had time to read my posts on the matter...I said I went to Xavier, and got abused....Again, if I said even one example you gave, the response would be "Well Butler's better regardless of the outcome in this game...you got lucky once last year, but try getting to a final 4."

I'm not even trying to invite a comparison, or reasons why Xavier is better...I bring up the current state of Xavier basketball, and it's turned into why BUTLER is better.

Maybe the difference is, you're talking to 60 year olds who don't have that makeup...but ever Butler Fan I encounter these days has changed. Yah, I'd be thrilled if we get to a final 4...but Butler fans have tought me that given the chance...try a little humility.

[Emp]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What do you do when they wake up?

Basketball apparently isnt that interesting to you as a sport. Great. It is for me. Basketball fans in Indiana generally are pretty knowledgeable, if you are into that sort of thing. Over many years, I've talked basketball with fans and coaches from Marion High School, Pike HS, Butler, Ball State, Indiana, Purdue, and found the conversations interesting and insightful, especially compared to say Miami U, Dayton, Virginia, Pitt, Michigan, Duquesne....... I ran into some interesting fans in Richmond this season, and we had a good chat about Holloway vs Anderson before the game, and at half. That type of discussion bores you? great.


Seriously...

Maybe the difference is, you're talking to 60 year olds who don't have that makeup...but ever Butler Fan I encounter these days has changed. Yah, I'd be thrilled if we get to a final 4...but Butler fans have tought me that given the chance...try a little humility.

Well, Muskied, I'll give you the under-25 crowd as not a likely group to welcome a visitor anywhere, Hinkle included. But notwithstanding you like to make ageist assumptions, it is not my experience. I talk whomever is sitting around me, or in the line for refreshments. Most are younger than me. If your experience is not as fun, that is regrettable. And if the Hinkle experience is so horrible, just watch the TV game with some yo homies. I'll be driving over for about the 20th time this winter, plan to go early and enjoy the campus and the fans, and have a great time.

[Muskied]

And if the Hinkle experience is so horrible, just watch the TV game with some yo homies. I'll be driving over for about the 20th time this winter, plan to go early and enjoy the campus and the fans, and have a great time.

Again Emp....read my posts, I said the experience with Butler fans has been since their final 4's...which all post date my last hinkle trip....I've been probably 100 times previous, and haven't complained. Maybe that's where we are not connecting...we probably had good experiences at the same games with the same fans...My point is...and let me make this AS CLEAR as possible, experience since final 4's has been intolerable, and I haven't been to hinkle since. Hopefully it's different when I see us beat them by 239 points in Indy this yr.

[Benxman]

I too, hope we kick there arse this year, but that doesn't make me hate them. I remember an experience when we played Purdue in Indianapolis a few years back. It was listed as a"nuetral' sight game. They opened the game not with the National Anthem, that had been played before he first game, but with the Purdue Hymn. Homered!? You bet your sweet bippee! I held a grudge against 1) Purdue University and 2) Indiana basketball fans in general for years after that. But guess what? I wasn't hurting anyone from Purdue or Indiana, but myself. The anger and venom I had was causing ME harm, not them.

Yes, Butler fans may be acting differently since they have two Final Fours under their belt. That is like someone who hits the jackpot. Most of them don't know how to deal with it. The way for us to counter that, is not to hate Butler University or its fans, but to get another victory over them next year, as we did this year, and then to go on to the Final Four ourselves! That's the way to do it!

We have an excellent chance to do that. It won't be easy; it never is. We do have some improvements over last time we played there. For one thing, Coach Mack was in his first year that time. Now he has two years experience and should be able to handle our players, and their team and fans better than that time. I say:

GO MUSKIES!

:logo:

[GoMuskies]

i've talked basketball with fans and coaches from marion high school, pike hs, butler, ball state, indiana, purdue,

wow!

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

I'm sure that if Xavier had been to the title game two years running, there wouldn't be any obnoxious Xavier fans.

It certainly sounds like you want to talk about why Xavier is better than Butler, to a Butler fan; and you want them to concede that Xavier is better. If this is your goal, and your approach, you are inviting push back, and deservedly so. Butler's results the last two seasons are superior to Xavier's, just a fact.

I don't try to talk about what team or program is better with any fan, especially in their house. I ask what their opinions are about matchups in the game, whether a tightly-called game will favor one team or the other, who wants a game in the 50, 60s, 70s; will Xavier or Butler have to use a zone. Things that basketballfans talk about, regardless of the intensity of team support/fanaticism. If you don't want to meet people with different points of view and make basketball a bridge to your own personal growth, have at your mad-on and choose to get in shouting matches. It's symptomatic of pandemic chauvinism these days. If you don't wanna get along, if you need "the other" to be evil and bad, then your approach works fine. It's the same thinking that has Catlicks fighting Prods, Shiites hammering Sunnis...........over meaningless points of "difference."

Just impressed someone used "chauvinsim" correctly...of course the rest is sheer nonsense. Yes, why can't we all see the correlation of Xavier/Butler and genocide?

[Emp]

Speaking of sheer nonsense, "The troubles" = genocide?

[xudash]

Someone can correct my read on this if they like, but this is how I see it:

Butler's achievement - making it to back-to-back F4s - was extraordinary; any way you look at it, especially if you were to consider how you would look at it if you're team did that, the ability to do that was impressive.

Butler's "ability" to do that, as is the case with any team in that tournament in any season, partly rested on luck here and there, but, in Butler's case, it rested on a lot of it (especially during their second trip). They took advantage of the breaks, but they had a lot of them. Hell, even we contributed two years ago by wearing out K-State for the regional game.

Is Butler the kind of program that can sustain this level of success. NO. They can stay good and get to the NCAA's almost every year via the Horizon League, assuming they go forward with their $20 million Hinkle renovation and Stevens remaining as their coach. Stevens won't stay at Butler much longer. I would think that either Duke or Indiana would be automatic for him if either open up. Coach K is 65 and Coach C is not so well loved in Bloomington. We'll see how that pans out.

Should we be jealous of Butler? Why? You can envy the two F4 banners if you like, but Butler's program isn't on our level, so why even ponder the question. Let them enjoy their moment in the sun. I wouldn't trade places, period. As the article a few months back noted, we have better everything than Butler, but we just don't have a F4 banner yet. So what? We've had plenty of tournament success and we will make it to that level, with a little luck ourselves, soon enough.

If some of their fans don't know how to handle it, so be it. As we've all agreed, every school has its share of tools. When - not if - Xavier starts making it to F4s, our hope will be that our tools will mostly take it out on UD anyway, and not other parts of the United States collegiate fanbase. Actually, perhaps we give the poor bastards up I-75 a rest and let the Clifton rock scientists have it.

[xubrew]

Butler's accomplishments extend beyond just the two Final Fours, though. They don't have anything that matches that, but they're not George Mason either. George Mason hadn't really done much before or sense. Butler has. In addition to that, Butler hit a skid after a solid four year stretch where they went to three tournaments, the second round, and a Sweet Sixteen. They came back, and were once again a top 25 caliber team for about three years prior to their back to back Final Fours.

Since 2006, they've been solid. And there was a four year period where they were solid before that. The fact that they were good, hit a skid, and then became good again is a sign that they are not just a flash in the pan. They're much more stable than Georgia Tech, LSU, Oklahoma State, and other teams that have made runs to the Final Four, and then dissapeared. They're a very strong program. They're not going to be a consisitent Final Four caliber team, but no one else really is either.

Over the last five years, I believe 16 different teams have been to the Final Four out of a possible 20, so it's rare that anyone is there consistently. So, yeah, you're not going out on a limb by saying they won't continue to sustain this kind of success.

[waggy]

Butler has been a good program going back as far as I can remember, which is the MCC days.

I'm glad X is playing them, and I hope it continues.

[xudash]

Butler's accomplishments extend beyond just the two Final Fours, though. They don't have anything that matches that, but they're not George Mason either. George Mason hadn't really done much before or sense. Butler has. In addition to that, Butler hit a skid after a solid four year stretch where they went to three tournaments, the second round, and a Sweet Sixteen. They came back, and were once again a top 25 caliber team for about three years prior to their back to back Final Fours.

Since 2006, they've been solid. And there was a four year period where they were solid before that. The fact that they were good, hit a skid, and then became good again is a sign that they are not just a flash in the pan. They're much more stable than Georgia Tech, LSU, Oklahoma State, and other teams that have made runs to the Final Four, and then dissapeared. They're a very strong program. They're not going to be a consisitent Final Four caliber team, but no one else really is either.

Over the last five years, I believe 16 different teams have been to the Final Four out of a possible 20, so it's rare that anyone is there consistently. So, yeah, you're not going out on a limb by saying they won't continue to sustain this kind of success.

It wasn't my intention to find some comfortable place on a limb with my post.

Butler is Butler. It's the little engine that could. There was a point last season where they were stinking up the place and their fans were questioning Stevens' ability. They turned it around, they caught some breaks in the Dance, and they made it back to the F4. Crazy things happen in the world of sports.

If they stay competitive, I have to agree that it would be a good game for us, unless an attractive BCS team is otherwise available for the slot we would shoot for with them.