View Full Version : Gary Williams retiring (reportedly)
Goodman is reporting...
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Maryland-coach-Gary-Williams-retiring-after-22-seasons-050511
I remember Maryland being thought of as Sean Miller's "dream job". I think if he left Xavier for Arizona, nothing is out of the question.
KingCole
05-05-2011, 04:38 PM
Gary Parrish from CBS is reporting the same. I wonder what names will be thrown out there for this opening. It is late in the game to make a coaching change.
http://eye-on-college-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/29091497
X-band '01
05-05-2011, 04:40 PM
That's odd timing on his retirement - who's going to replace him at this point?
I wonder if NC State is going to tamper with this coaching search (allegedly).
GoMuskies
05-05-2011, 04:43 PM
Williams retired five years ago. Today is just the first time he told everyone else.
DC Muskie
05-05-2011, 04:49 PM
Jordan Williams signed with an agent yesterday and officially ending any hope of going .500 in the ACC next season.
What a strange trip this has been.
Retire33
05-05-2011, 04:50 PM
Williams retired five years ago. Today is just the first time he told everyone else.
Post of the day.
Xavgrad08
05-05-2011, 04:54 PM
I hope Bino can land on his feet. That was one of my concerns when I found out he was leaving X, to become an assistant at Maryland.
Williams retired five years ago. Today is just the first time he told everyone else.
This isn't true. Gary never lost his enthusiasm for coaching regardless of some of the tough seasons in recent years. The 2004 recruiting class royally screwed everything up for a few seasons, and really helped solidified Gary's opinion on highly-touted recruits and dealing with AAU people. Sure, his favoritism for four-year players willing to actually learn the game and his anti-AAU sentiments did hurt recruiting, but it's hard to blame the guy. Ms. Yow can, as always, suck a fat one.
Thanks for some great years, Gary.
Retire33
05-05-2011, 04:58 PM
I hope Bino can land on his feet. That was one of my concerns when I found out he was leaving X, to become an assistant at Maryland.
Their next head coach would be smart to retain him. His ability to get in-state and area players in one year there was better than Williams in the past 8 to 10 years
GuyFawkes38
05-05-2011, 05:31 PM
Maryland is an extremely attractive job. I'd expect some big names to be thrown around.
Yes, Stevenson is an Indiana guy. But maybe this is the type of job he might be interested in. The IU job might not open up in the next 5-10 years. It'll be tough for him to sustain the type of success he has had at Buffalo. Ooops, I meant Butler.
I remember Maryland being thought of as Sean Miller's "dream job". I think if he left Xavier for Arizona, nothing is out of the question.
I can't see miller leaving Arizona for any school the next few years. I just don think that's his style.
But I do think if he would have stayed at X he would have bolted for Maryland. I find that oddly comforting.
waggy
05-05-2011, 06:14 PM
I wonder if NC State is going to tamper with this coaching search (allegedly).
:D Nice.
BMoreX
05-05-2011, 06:51 PM
For what it's worth, on Sportscenter Andy Katz mentioned the following who would probably consider a move to Maryland:
Mike Brea (Notre Dame)
Jay Wright (Villanova)
Jamie Dixon (Pitt)
Mark Few (Gonzaga)
Brad Stevens (Butler)
For what it's worth, on Sportscenter Andy Katz mentioned the following who would probably consider a move to Maryland:
Mike Brea (Notre Dame)
Jay Wright (Villanova)
Jamie Dixon (Pitt)
Mark Few (Gonzaga)
Brad Stevens (Butler)
Our local station suggested all of those except for Few.
Brey: I'm not 100% on him, but it's hard to judge because I think he'd be able to recruit much easier in College Park instead of constantly having to go for white 4.0 kids. He's from the area, learned under the greatest high school coach in the history of the area, and then Coach K. Pedigree may be there but I've often questioned his defensive schemes at ND.
Wright: Would pick up the recruiting big time and has a couple local ties. Good coach, but I'm not sure if he's the first choice, although I do think he'd take the job.
Jamie Dixon: Great coach and seems to be a good recruiter. I have no idea what his interest is, but I would think he'd be a high priority if he is interested.
Mark Few: Sorry, just can't see this one. He's been in the northwest forever and doesn't stick out among some of the other names. I doubt he's in Maryland's top 3 or 5.
Brad Stevens: This is the most intriguing name I think. He is clearly a great coach and motivator. He's got a great demeanor and amazing resume for his age. I think he's a bit unproven as a recruiter, but he'd be coming to one of the absolute best recruiting areas with a hell of a reputation. I would normally think that if Maryland offered someone like him, it'd be a done deal within seconds, but Stevens is a bit of an enigma to me. I can't truly believe he wants to be at Butler for the rest of his life, with a high school gym and an office half the size of a Brockman dorm room, but is Maryland the job he's waiting for? Does he still think he can wait it out for Indiana? I think this is the one to keep an eye on.
GuyFawkes38
05-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Another potential negative thing about Stevens is his slower offensive style. Will he be able to recruit big time, 5 star recruits with that style? Will the fans be okay with it? Will Stevens adapt and increase the tempo?
GuyFawkes38
05-05-2011, 08:30 PM
I just went to the Arizona board. They are sort of flipping out. Maybe Miller is a potential option for Maryland.
waggy
05-05-2011, 08:34 PM
I seriously doubt Sean leaves Arizona, but I'm okay with their fans flipping out about the prospect.
sgarcia
05-05-2011, 09:43 PM
In the case of Miller I could definitely see him coming to Maryland for a few reasons:
1) The ACC is better than the Pac 10/Pac 12 or whatever the hell it will become.
2) East coast basketball gets far greater coverage (ESPN) than West coast basketball
3) Maryland is right in between Baltimore and DC and Miller could nab us a lot of the very good recruits in the area.
4) Money talks. Maryland will be able to throw a lot of money at any candidate they want.
Just my 2 cents.
Also mentioned on the radio show today in Baltimore were Mike Brey, Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon, Shaka Smart and Todd Bozeman.
xavierj
05-05-2011, 09:44 PM
I seriously doubt Sean leaves Arizona, but I'm okay with their fans flipping out about the prospect.
I don't. Sean is not exactly in love with Tuscon and neither are his wife and kids. if Maryland offers him close to what Arizona is offering he would take it in a nano-second.
jco17
05-05-2011, 09:45 PM
Maryland is a very well thought of job. Most seem to think it's a top 8 or so job in the country. Pretty much every coach in the country is interested in Maryland. I'm sure Sean is too. Sounds like Brey and Jay Wright are major candidates. I think they will come at Miller too. Arizona has some issues with Sean's contract that need ironed out. If they fix some things to Miller's liking, he stays. If they don't and Maryland comes knocking, he may just well take that job.
It will ONLY be a problem is Greg Byrne (the Arizona AD) doesn't get what Sean wants in his contract. Believe you me, it isn't like Sean is asking too much either. This better get done or we shoot ourselves in the foot because of our own idiocy. That said, everybody "in the know" seems confident everything gets fixed and Sean remains at Arizona. It's a business and Maryland is a fantastic job, but if Sean leaves UofA it's not because of more money, it's because of a few other things that can easily be remedied. Not sure why they haven't been already to be completly honest with you guys.
Anyways, I thought this was actually something I could weigh in on for you guys that would be helpful. lol.
jco17
05-05-2011, 09:47 PM
I don't. Sean is not exactly in love with Tuscon and neither are his wife and kids. if Maryland offers him close to what Arizona is offering he would take it in a nano-second.
Not even remotely correct in any way actually. Amy, Sean, and his kids really enjoy Tucson and will stay (read my prior post) He wouldn't leave in a nano second or he would have done that for NC State who was gonna offer him around 4 million dollars a year.
jco17
05-05-2011, 09:52 PM
In the case of Miller I could definitely see him coming to Maryland for a few reasons:
1) The ACC is better than the Pac 10/Pac 12 or whatever the hell it will become.
2) East coast basketball gets far greater coverage (ESPN) than West coast basketball
3) Maryland is right in between Baltimore and DC and Miller could nab us a lot of the very good recruits in the area.
4) Money talks. Maryland will be able to throw a lot of money at any candidate they want.
Just my 2 cents.
Also mentioned on the radio show today in Baltimore were Mike Brey, Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon, Shaka Smart and Todd Bozeman.
The Pac 12 is not done adding schools. Most think Texas and Oklahoma will be part of our conference along with a few others. We also just signed a 3 billion dollar TV deal as well, so that coverage is gonna get a lot better.
LA is a pretty large hot bed for recruits too and strong ties have already been established. He's not having any kind of trouble recruiting. He's got a top 5 recruiting class coming in next year and the year after may even be better.
We're working on a contract extension with Miller that will give him a raise as well. It's not as black and white as your attempting to make it. Improvements to the school and conference are being made as well as a raise for Miller. It's not a no brainer.
jco17
05-05-2011, 09:56 PM
I seriously doubt Sean leaves Arizona, but I'm okay with their fans flipping out about the prospect.
Of course. If it happened to us, it would make you feel good I'm sure. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a business and it happens. It would be a big blow to us for sure. We'd again have to start a new coaching search and get to have our 5th coach in 6 years.
bobbiemcgee
05-05-2011, 10:07 PM
It will ONLY be a problem is Greg Byrne (the Arizona AD) doesn't get what Sean wants in his contract. Believe you me, it isn't like Sean is asking too much either. This better get done or we shoot ourselves in the foot because of our own idiocy. That said, everybody "in the know" seems confident everything gets fixed and Sean remains at Arizona. It's a business and Maryland is a fantastic job, but if Sean leaves UofA it's not because of more money, it's because of a few other things that can easily be remedied. Not sure why they haven't been already to be completly honest with you guys.
.
Hmmmmm -- good excuse to bolt? Heard Amy and the kids ain't crazy about the desert either.
DC Muskie
05-05-2011, 10:13 PM
Maryland has ZERO money. ZERO.
They are not going to be able to pay any of those top guys.
Not even remotely correct in any way actually. Amy, Sean, and his kids really enjoy Tucson and will stay (read my prior post) He wouldn't leave in a nano second or he would have done that for NC State who was gonna offer him around 4 million dollars a year.
Maryland is a much, much better job than NC State. Sean Miller could be the king of recruiting in the DC/Baltimore area and around key parts of the east coast. NC State has no chance of getting that kind of a bed. And Sean's wife and family really loved Cincinnati too. It's going to come down to whether he's offered the job and whether he really wants the job. Arizona does not necessarily have any control in it whatsoever, just like Xavier didn't two years ago. In my opinion, Maryland has higher potential than Arizona, being in the DC market and ACC. Sean, being from Pittsburgh and having great east coast (and now national) ties might like the challenge of going up against Coach K and Roy Williams every year in a tougher conference to win than the Pac 10.
I have no idea if there has been any communication between UMD and Miller, but if there is, I think UA fans should be worried. In my biased opinion, I think Sean Miller would be the best fit for Maryland, and I want him to go (even knowing he may bolt for something else later on.)
jco17
05-05-2011, 10:34 PM
Maryland is a much, much better job than NC State. Sean Miller could be the king of recruiting in the DC/Baltimore area and around key parts of the east coast. NC State has no chance of getting that kind of a bed. And Sean's wife and family really loved Cincinnati too. It's going to come down to whether he's offered the job and whether he really wants the job. Arizona does not necessarily have any control in it whatsoever, just like Xavier didn't two years ago. In my opinion, Maryland has higher potential than Arizona, being in the DC market and ACC. Sean, being from Pittsburgh and having great east coast (and now national) ties might like the challenge of going up against Coach K and Roy Williams every year in a tougher conference to win than the Pac 10.
I have no idea if there has been any communication between UMD and Miller, but if there is, I think UA fans should be worried. In my biased opinion, I think Sean Miller would be the best fit for Maryland, and I want him to go (even knowing he may bolt for something else later on.)
Yes, Maryland is the better job. My point was, if he wanted out of Arizona so badly and would leave in a so called nano second, he could have done it already. His family is not unhappy in Arizona, that's completly inaccurate. If Sean gets all of the things he wants from Arizona, he stays. I have very little doubt in that and many are saying he's gonna get what he wants.
Should we be worried? Sure. Every time a job opens up we'll hear the same. We heard it with Lute too. Kentucky actually went hard after Lute Olson twice and he turned them down. Tucson is a much better place and community than some give credit. If he goes, he'll be a great fit at Maryland, if he stays at Arizona he'll be a great fit there too. Sean's a great coach and recruiter. He'll be successful whereever. I don't doubt that one bit.
GuyFawkes38
05-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Maryland has ZERO money. ZERO.
They are not going to be able to pay any of those top guys.
Haven't heard that. Interesting. The media seems to be assuming they have enough cash to draw a top candidate.
Lots of times in these situations major donors come through.
sgarcia
05-05-2011, 11:02 PM
Jco,
You have to hope that Miller AND Dixon stay put. If Dixon leaves Pitt, Miller will leave Arizona in a nano second.
jco17
05-05-2011, 11:11 PM
Jco,
You have to hope that Miller AND Dixon stay put. If Dixon leaves Pitt, Miller will leave Arizona in a nano second.
That's also 110% false. I'll tell you what, if Dixon takes the Maryland job, I bet you $500 that he wont take the Pitt job. IF I win, you can actually just pay me $50 which would be 10/1 odds.
jco17
05-05-2011, 11:13 PM
Haven't heard that. Interesting. The media seems to be assuming they have enough cash to draw a top candidate.
Lots of times in these situations major donors come through.
Not sure if DC is on point with this one. I don't know too much about their finances. However, a lot of boosters were not full on board with Williams. I'm willing to bet they will be very happy to help out for a new coach that could make their program a lot better.
Money is not going to be an issue with Maryland's coaching search. JCO, I still think it's naive to assume that if Sean gets what he wants from Arizona, he's not taking the Maryland job. He honestly may leave regardless of how badly Arizona wants to keep him. I don't think he's dying to get out of Tuscon by any means, but I think he may see Maryland as a better option. If he's offered, we'll see.
Stevens and Miller are the two most popular names among Maryland fans from what I can tell so far.
DC Muskie
05-05-2011, 11:37 PM
Not sure if DC is on point with this one. I don't know too much about their finances. However, a lot of boosters were not full on board with Williams. I'm willing to bet they will be very happy to help out for a new coach that could make their program a lot better.
I forgot you know everything.
Kevin Anderson is finally realizing what he walked into. Maryland did major expansion on their football stadium and other athletic complexes and can't pay them off. He is busy trying to fill a fundraising staff to get actual cash. Maryland also is going to continue to pay Gary and Ralph Friedgen.
Boosters were leaving Gary when Patsos left for Loyola. They wanted to get in on the ground floor with the guy they thought would replace Gary. It took them about three years to realize Jimmy wasn't going to be the guy and they all returned. There are certainly people who dislike Gary, but there isn't enough of them to push him out or tell the new AD they'd be up to pay for what they think is a better coach.
Kevin Plank is going to crank out as much money as he can. But Under Armor is not Nike, and Maryland is not Oregon.
I have no idea how they think they can afford to lure Dixon out of Pitt and Wright out of Nova. Let alone move Sean clear across the country.
DC Muskie
05-05-2011, 11:43 PM
Money is not going to be an issue with Maryland's coaching search.
Unless Maryland has millions and millions of dollars hidden in their beds, they are not going to be able to pay whatever a candidate wants.
Seriously, Maryland just hired a guy from Oregon State to head up their athletic fundraising. Oregon State just wrapped up a serious athletic fundraising campaign. Because, you know, they have to compete with Nike money. Anderson understands that Maryland is far behind the 8 Ball in this issue, and he went out and got some pretty good people.
Debbie Yow tried to gather money to buy out Gary a few years ago. She couldn't pull it off. Part of it was because she is nitwit, the other part, the important part, is they have no money.
Maryland can't pay off coaches who are not coaching, and pay for expansion for people who are not coming to fill those seats for expansion.
xudash
05-05-2011, 11:44 PM
jco17,
What is the website for tracking flights that you guys used to watch Miller flying around as he was holding meetings with your AD?
This is fun. We get to sit back and watch this time, knowing Mack is secure at X.
It sounds like we need to set up the site to track flights out of South Bend.
Otherwise, Jay Wright will just be sneaky and Matta his way down I-95 for a meeting or three. He'll be harder to track, until someone nails him with an iPhone pick.
Unless Maryland has millions and millions of dollars hidden in their beds, they are not going to be able to pay whatever a candidate wants.
Seriously, Maryland just hired a guy from Oregon State to head up their athletic fundraising. Oregon State just wrapped up a serious athletic fundraising campaign. Because, you know, they have to compete with Nike money. Anderson understands that Maryland is far behind the 8 Ball in this issue, and he went out and got some pretty good people.
Debbie Yow tried to gather money to buy out Gary a few years ago. She couldn't pull it off. Part of it was because she is nitwit, the other part, the important part, is they have no money.
Maryland can't pay off coaches who are not coaching, and pay for expansion for people who are not coming to fill those seats for expansion.
Actually, yes, I do think Maryland has millions of dollars hidden under their beds, so to speak. I think you are underestimating how much winning has to do with Maryland's relative lack of financial support. The issue of Gary being bought out was a very sensitive one and there was never going to be enough support to get rid of him from the big boosters. Yes, Yow was incompetent, but she would have gotten Gary out if she could have. I believe Maryland can absolutely come up with the funds to get a big name coach and I believe they will. Anderson knows he needs to make a great hire. This is a defining point of his career at Maryland, a basketball school. Maryland basketball back in the top 10 would generate a lot of revenue, and would be one of the biggest powers in college hoops. Anderson will have the financial support from boosters if he does this thing right.
DC Muskie
05-06-2011, 07:20 AM
I'm just saying, I will be shocked if Maryland is able to pull a coach away from another school. They have just extended themselves too far. This is what I'm getting from a few boosters I know over there.
The best they might be able to pull off is Mike Brey. But in my opinion, that's not a huge hire, despite what those knobbers on the Junkies think.
bigdiggins
05-06-2011, 07:26 AM
.. Maryland also is going to continue to pay Gary ...
If he retired, why are they going to pay him? It's not as though they fired him and have to pay a buyout?
Jumpy
05-06-2011, 09:03 AM
Not even remotely correct in any way actually. Amy, Sean, and his kids really enjoy Tucson and will stay (read my prior post) He wouldn't leave in a nano second or he would have done that for NC State who was gonna offer him around 4 million dollars a year.
That's also 110% false. I'll tell you what, if Dixon takes the Maryland job, I bet you $500 that he wont take the Pitt job. IF I win, you can actually just pay me $50 which would be 10/1 odds.
Ahhh. I remember a time when we used to be cocksure about the stability of our head coaching position, but Matta and Miller have stripped that innocence from us, now haven't they?
Don't ever believe that you're different and it will never happen to you. when Matta left, everyone was certain that he wouldn't. How could a guy leave a team that he had just taken to the elite 8 for an afterthought program that was in turmoil, on the cusp of NCAA sanctions? Well, it happened.
Jco,
You have to hope that Miller AND Dixon stay put. If Dixon leaves Pitt, Miller will leave Arizona in a nano second.
Sean Miller does not want to coach at Pitt.
DC Muskie
05-06-2011, 09:35 AM
If he retired, why are they going to pay him? It's not as though they fired him and have to pay a buyout?
He's moving up to an administrator role in the athletic department. He wants a state pension which I believe kicks in after 30 years. He won't make as much as a coach, but he won't be making pennies either.
LA Muskie
05-06-2011, 11:06 AM
He's moving up to an administrator role in the athletic department. He wants a state pension which I believe kicks in after 30 years. He won't make as much as a coach, but he won't be making pennies either.
Doesn't he need 8 more years, and isn't he 66? Is he really going to work to 73 to get a pension?
Not sure about the pension, but he's going to serve as an assistant AD to Anderson and probably just act as an advisor to the program. I agree DC that Brey is by no means a home run hire like some locals will have you think. He's got a great background in terms of who he's coached under and his local ties, but the track record just isn't there. I know he had some recruiting restrictions at ND, and was not at a basketball school with nearly the facilities that UMD has, but I never once was impressed with any of his teams defenses and all his best teams always relied WAY too much on the three point shot. I for one am rooting for a couple of the other candidates over Brey.
GuyFawkes38
05-06-2011, 11:36 AM
I need to stop going to the Arizona board.
Anyways, there are reports that Miller contacted Maryland. He's very interested.
I've always considered Maryland an awesome job. But on the same level as Arizona, Illinois, Indiana, MSU, etc... It definitely appears to be a step above those schools.
ZONACAT
05-06-2011, 11:58 AM
Schadenfreude! :/
GuyFawkes38
05-06-2011, 12:01 PM
I'm got this from Goazcats.com which got this from the Maryland insider site.
here it is:
InsideMDSports has confirmed through multiple sources that three of Maryland’s top targets to succeed Gary Williams -- Sean Miller, Jay Wright and Jamie Dixon -- have all told those close to them that they would accept if offered the job.
Arizona’s Miller may have emerged as a favorite for the job, sources said, and has had what were characterized with serious discussions with Maryland officials -- likely athletic director Kevin Anderson -- about the job. Miller, one of the nation’s hottest young coaches, has told several sources that Maryland is his “dream job.” A Pittsburgh native, he has family in the Washington, D.C., area, and has long coveted the job.
Wright, who has rebuilt Villlanova into a national-caliber program, has the strongest relationship of the three to Williams. It remains to be seen how much of a role that will play in the selection process. He, too, would love to have the job.
Dixon has a pre-existing relationship with Anderson. His sister Maggie Dixon, who passed away in 206, was hired by Anderson in 2005 as Army’s women’s basketball coach. Sources said Wright would be unlikely to leave Pitt for many jobs, but Maryland is one of them. Wright is also among the nation’s most highly respected coaches, but some question whether his team’s Big East-oriented, rough-and-tumble playing style would be well-suited for the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Miller, Wright and Dixon are the likeliest candidates to get the job. Butler coach Brad Stevens has also expressed interest, but unlike the aforementioned three, he has little if any ties to the area -- where as Miller, Wright and Dixon all have longstanding ties to the major players in the area’s high school and AAU basketball scene.
Stay tuned for more exclusive news on this constantly developing story …
It appears like Miller will meet with Maryland AD this afternoon. Just rumors though.
And from what I gather on the zona site, this might be a contract negotiation ploy. All coaches seem to do that once or twice in their career.
bobbiemcgee
05-06-2011, 12:17 PM
The AZ AD blew it not getting the extension done. Fodder for huge payday now or bolt to MD.
bobbiemcgee
05-06-2011, 12:26 PM
It appears like Miller will meet with Maryland AD this afternoon. Just rumors though.
.
The meeting will occur in the Tucson Dunkin' Donuts parking lot following family traditions.
Juice
05-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Greg Doyel wrote a blog on whether Maryland was a top 20 job or not. Within the blog he lists Xavier as a top 25 job which is nice to read.
http://gregg-doyel.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/29104105
LA Muskie
05-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Three things:
(1) No way in hell did Miller himself reach out to MD. If anyone is remotely saying that Miller essentially called Anderson (and I don't know that anyone is saying that), you can discount everything that person has said. Maybe there were some back-channel communications, but that'd be it.
(2) I don't think this is a big surprise. Maybe the timing, but given how this all went down I'd suspect Anderson had some lead time. And I would hope he used it wisely. My guess is that his list is not merely widdled down, but that feelers have been put out to the top 2-3 on that list already. I'd be surprised if we don't know by Monday who the new coach will be.
(3) I think it will be Miller, and I don't think there's anything AZ could do (bar giving him the farm) to stop it. The Millers may not hate Tucson like people might prefer to think, but by all accounts he's a family guy and -- even moreso -- his wife is a family woman. All of their family is back east. And now so is his brother. My wife and I are on a silo out here in LA. It's no fun to be so far away from family. And this will probably be the best east coast job to open for a while, except perhaps Duke (and I don't think any coach is holding out for that, save perhaps Stevens).
Unlike many X fans, I am still a big Sean Miller fan. Maryland being my second favorite team (albeit a far second to X), I'd love to see Sean Miller come here and turn Maryland into the national powerhouse it rightfully is. Maryland should be a top 8-10 program in my opinion, maybe top 5, and Miller could make that happen better than anyone in my opinion.
LA Muskie
05-06-2011, 12:37 PM
I counted three.
Ha! I thought of a third as I was typing it. Fixed now...
LA Muskie
05-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Unlike many X fans, I am still a big Sean Miller fan. Maryland being my second favorite team (albeit a far second to X), I'd love to see Sean Miller come here and turn Maryland into the national powerhouse it rightfully is. Maryland should be a top 8-10 program in my opinion, maybe top 5, and Miller could make that happen better than anyone in my opinion.
I don't share your love for MD, but I agree that Miller is the perfect choice for that program. He's an outstanding recruiter, teacher, and finisher. All of the others that are being bandied about have question marks in one of those 3 categories. He's the complete package. (Which, frankly, is probably why so many are upset that he left, despite the reasons actually given.)
GuyFawkes38
05-06-2011, 12:41 PM
Unlike many X fans, I am still a big Sean Miller fan. Maryland being my second favorite team (albeit a far second to X), I'd love to see Sean Miller come here and turn Maryland into the national powerhouse it rightfully is. Maryland should be a top 8-10 program in my opinion, maybe top 5, and Miller could make that happen better than anyone in my opinion.
I'm guessing most Maryland fans would agree with you, right? Miller is younger, just as accomplished, and has a better reputation than Dixon, Brey, and Wright. It would be a slam dunk hire.
bobbiemcgee
05-06-2011, 12:46 PM
Not even remotely correct in any way actually. Amy, Sean, and his kids really enjoy Tucson and will stay (read my prior post) He wouldn't leave in a nano second or he would have done that for NC State who was gonna offer him around 4 million dollars a year.
She spends a lot of time back in the 'nati with the kids and has complained of desert allergies, so don't see how this is true.
I'm guessing most Maryland fans would agree with you, right? Miller is younger, just as accomplished, and has a better reputation than Dixon, Brey, and Wright. It would be a slam dunk hire.
I've texted some MD friends and they seemed to be surprised by the notion of Miller leaving UA but all agree that he'd be an ideal choice. I think the local talking heads are more likely to look at the Big East names, but the more I read and rationalize, the more I think Miller may be the next head coach at Maryland.
ThePowerOfX
05-06-2011, 01:31 PM
I would absolutely love to see Miller at Maryland. My grudge against him has basically disappeared over the last year and I think that would completely erase it. I think it would be a fantastic hire for Maryland too.
GuyFawkes38
05-06-2011, 01:37 PM
I would absolutely love to see Miller at Maryland. My grudge against him has basically disappeared over the last year and I think that would completely erase it. I think it would be a fantastic hire for Maryland too.
I'd expect the grudge against Miller to drop at X if he went to Maryland. Not exactly sure why. But definitely think it would.
Jumpy
05-06-2011, 01:49 PM
If we're a Buick and Arizona is a Lexus, what does that make Maryland? A Bentley? or does he reserve room for even better jobs and consider Maryland a Mercedes instead?
DC Muskie
05-06-2011, 01:52 PM
Doesn't he need 8 more years, and isn't he 66? Is he really going to work to 73 to get a pension?
It's the number of years as a state employee from what people out here have told me.
If Maryland hires Miller, The Terps will win about 400 national titles. The door to PG County would be about half closed. And that would be good enough.
I think it's funny how a few years ago when all this Gary buyout stuff was going on, Miller's name was brought up and Terp fans wanted no part of it.
If we're a Buick and Arizona is a Lexus, what does that make Maryland? A Bentley? or does he reserve room for even better jobs and consider Maryland a Mercedes instead?
Maryland would be a Bentley. It's only fitting, as the main black-out bar of College Park is Bentley's. Any time Scott Van Pelt is doing Sportscenter covering a Maryland win, he yells, "We're goin to Bentley's!"
Miller would be able to land a great chunk of PG County and the WCAC. JT3 is doing it at Georgetown to get lots of their best players, but isn't nearly the basketball coach that Miller is. I would be shocked if it took Miller more than three seasons to get Maryland back to the elite level of college basketball if he came here.
SixFig
05-06-2011, 02:43 PM
Historically, Maryland isn't that great. "Only" 2 final fours (2001, 2002) and no sweet 16's since 2003. I'd consider them a "second tier" program along with UConn, Florida, and Louisville.
I would say Maryland is an Audi. Has a lot of great qualities and tries to position itself as a luxury car, but really doesn't have the pedigree of the great brands.
bobbiemcgee
05-06-2011, 02:59 PM
I hope Bino can land on his feet. That was one of my concerns when I found out he was leaving X, to become an assistant at Maryland.
Sean Miller would keep Bino.
MD Muskie
05-06-2011, 03:08 PM
If we're a Buick and Arizona is a Lexus, what does that make Maryland? A Bentley? or does he reserve room for even better jobs and consider Maryland a Mercedes instead?
Actually yeah. THey have bar right next to campus called RJ Bentleys. So the comparison is pretty appropriate.
SM#24
05-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Sean Miller would keep Bino.
I would think that Sean would bring Book with him. I believe he still does need to fill Archie's position; Bino would make a good choice. You would now have guys tied into both NYC and Balt/DC.
ThePowerOfX
05-06-2011, 04:26 PM
Reportedly mutual interest
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/post/maryland-coaching-buzz-focuses-on-arizonas-sean-miller/2011/05/06/AFWRaqAG_blog.html
waggy
05-06-2011, 04:38 PM
Three things:
(1) No way in hell did Miller himself reach out to MD. If anyone is remotely saying that Miller essentially called Anderson (and I don't know that anyone is saying that), you can discount everything that person has said. Maybe there were some back-channel communications, but that'd be it.
I would think if Miller has an agent that knows his client and is doing his job, that he would inquire about the opening without even consulting his client.
GuyFawkes38
05-06-2011, 05:53 PM
Historically, Maryland isn't that great. "Only" 2 final fours (2001, 2002) and no sweet 16's since 2003. I'd consider them a "second tier" program along with UConn, Florida, and Louisville.
I would say Maryland is an Audi. Has a lot of great qualities and tries to position itself as a luxury car, but really doesn't have the pedigree of the great brands.
That's sort of the odd thing about the situation.
Historically, AZ definitely has the better program the past 20 years. Regardless, Maryland sounds like they have the better job (perhaps Williams deserves some blame).
bobbiemcgee
05-06-2011, 06:00 PM
Maryland has ZERO money. ZERO.
They are not going to be able to pay any of those top guys.
Oregon has Nike, MD has the Under Armour guy (loaded).
Muskiefornia
05-06-2011, 08:45 PM
http://www.testudotimes.com/
It would be very hard to see after what he has done in two short years in AZ and what he has coming in. Also, Maryland couldn't pay much more even if it could I think. I guess his NC State past, East Coast connections, etc could make sense.
Muskiefornia
05-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Oops. Delete if you want. My bad. Should've wondered why the Gary Williams thread was so active.
STL_XUfan
05-06-2011, 09:35 PM
http://forum.goazcats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
I shouldn't be enjoying this so much......but I am.
waggy
05-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Yes STL, it is quite enjoyable.
waggy
05-06-2011, 09:59 PM
The Bryne-Hoops disconnect thread is recommended reading. That wiki entry is a roll.
Funniest possible scenario: Miller to Maryland, Archie to Arizona, Chaos to dayton.
STL_XUfan
05-06-2011, 11:56 PM
PaulBiancardi (http://twitter.com/#%21/PaulBiancardi) Paul Biancardi
From a source close to Sean Miller, I am getting word that he is on a private plane headed to Maryland. If true this is moving fast !
SixFig
05-07-2011, 03:11 AM
http://forum.goazcats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
I shouldn't be enjoying this so much......but I am.
"With all the talent UA is bringing in this upcoming season and so on why would u even consider Maryland? "
Hahaha. Sean left a team on the verge of the Final Four with Derrick Brown and Jordan Crawford. Why not leave another team?
If Tu leaves, this might take some of the sting out of it.
Snipe
05-07-2011, 06:46 AM
I think that Sean will use this opportunity to get a pay raise. I don't blame him. Arizona will pony up with a new contract extension
I think he should try to get 3 million a year? Why not? It is only money. If that is really what NC State was offering and Maryland comes calling, hold out for the Benjamins.
He has it made in Arizona. He won the PAC 10 and almost made the Final Four in his second year. That is sick. His recruiting class is off the hook. He could coach there for a long time and rake in multiple millions every year.
If he goes to Maryland he has to go up against Duke and North Carolina every year. I know coaches want to be challenged by My God Arizona is an easy path to prosperity. Nice weather too with some hot chicks to boot. And he has enough money that he doesn't have to live near a bunch of Mexicans.
I can't see Sean ever leaving. I can see him however taking the AD's call to enhance his own contract. I would too. If he leaves AZ I think he is a fool, at least if he leaves them for Maryland.
He will give it the head fake and then come home to sign a new extension, and then he will be a hero again. He is going to take AZ to the bank.
I did love the link to the AZ board. They talk about him being a "mercenary" if he leaves. They had no problem taking the mercenary away from us because AZ is such a natural destination for future champs and leaders of all types, but if he leaves them he is just a money grubbing whore!
You know Butler fans loved it when Matta left us just like he left them. We raided them and he left the first chance he got. Then he left us the first chance he got. And some of us are still offended.
I would have left you all for the sun of Arizona. I could have made new friends. Y'all are nice but please.
I predict a huge bump in pay for Miller. He has them scared and they don't want to do this again. Take that to the bank. I would rather move from Maryland to Arizona then from Arizona to Maryland. Maybe he could compete in most years vs Duke and UNC, but why do that when you can dominate a soft conference like the PAC 10? As far as coaching goes the PAC 10 is like getting to play from the women's tees and acting like it counts for real. They define soft. What a cush job. He could coach there for 20 years and make tens of millions of dollars.
And if he misses his family and friends maybe he just bumps his pay and buys them all mansions. Arizona's property market is depressed anyway. He could be snapping up homes to give away to anyone that he misses.
For the record I was his number 1 fan. I begged him to stay. Sean, if you are reading this just buy me a nice house and I am there for you. I will be a ringleader on the AZ boards, with the bonus of having multiple monikers given my bi-polar multiple personality disorder. Just say the word and show me the money and you can have me back in the saddle baby.
paulxu
05-07-2011, 07:08 AM
Chaos to dayton.
I'm pretty sure that has already arrived.
xavierj
05-07-2011, 08:08 AM
Funniest possible scenario: Miller to Maryland, Archie to Arizona, Chaos to dayton.
No Josh Pastner would go to Arizona.
Fireball
05-07-2011, 10:43 AM
I always thought while Sean was at Xavier that we would take a top Big East / East Coast job whenever it became available, and I can't say that opinion of mine has changed, even with the move to Arizona. He was ready to turn down Arizona until Calipari scared him into thinking that he may never be offered a top job again...
Anyway, I think if Sean's offered the Maryland job, Arizona can kiss him goodbye. I don't think it's too tough to figure out that his family doesn't really want to be all the way out in Arizona, when they have always been in the Eastern U.S. and this job is pretty much in Sean's wheelhouse.
Sorry, Arizona fans. It sucks, but I can't say that I really feel sorry for you.
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 10:55 AM
Latest:
http://jeffgoodman.yardbarker.com/blog/jeffgoodman/sources_maryland_targets_arizonas_miller_two_sides _to_meet_today/4691597
Per Jeff Goodman...
@goodmanonfox: Sources have told FOXSports.com that there may not be an official offer on table, but the Maryland job is Sean Miller's if he wants it.
Goodman later alludes that there's nothing Arizona can really do as far as offering more money, and Miller's family wants to head back east.
GuyFawkes38
05-07-2011, 12:24 PM
An ESPN station in DC reports that Miller will be the next Maryland coach.
There's a X fan gloating on their board right now. Not very classy.
If he does bolt, Calipari gave Miller some crappy advice. He would ruin the AZ program.
If he leaves AZ I think he is a fool, at least if he leaves them for Maryland.
How? Maryland is a better job than Arizona. I don't understand how people don't understand that. Better exposure, better league, better recruits in your backyard, better fan base, better arena, better facilities, better market, better coaching and team rivalries. Better everything except weather. It's everything he could ever dream of as a coach (and by some accounts, exactly everything he has ever dreamed of.) He would be living in one of the wealthiest, nicest counties/towns in America, outside one of the most powerful cities in the world, and could recruit all kids within an hour drive of his garage if he wanted, although he will be recruiting nationally too because he's Sean Miller. How many east coast families just want to up and move to the west for the rest of their lives? We all know Amy Miller and the kids didn't want to two years ago. Do you guys not remember the Maryland fans and students a decade ago? They were second to absolutely NOBODY. There's a reason that every coach under the age of 55 seems to badly want this job: it's a TOP job.
No Josh Pastner would go to Arizona.
Well I don't see the humor in that at all, especially given that we play Memphis.
HuskyMuskie
05-07-2011, 12:39 PM
Funniest possible scenario: Miller to Maryland, Archie to Arizona, Chaos to dayton.
This, my friends, would be the very purest definition of shit-storm. Oh, they lost their top assistant to Gregory too, right? Yeah, they would have to bring back London Warren to coach. :cool:
I'm curious how the Tuscon area school are. Montgomery County has some of the best schools is the country. Hell, Bethesda alone has been number one on lists for elementary and high schools. Maryland seems like a better opportunity for the whole family. Plus, how fun would it be for Sean to get to beat the life out of Brian Gregory every year, like old times, let alone get to go up against Roy and K?
Maryland > Arizona.
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Update:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/2011/5/7/2158996/sean-miller-maryland-basketball-coach
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 01:02 PM
[QUOTE=jco17;270763We're working on a contract extension with Miller that will give him a raise as well. It's not as black and white as your attempting to make it. Improvements to the school and conference are being made as well as a raise for Miller. It's not a no brainer.[/QUOTE]
Looks like too little too late.
Should have hired Bobo.
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Parrom seen firing up the dune buggy.
That's sort of the odd thing about the situation.
Historically, AZ definitely has the better program the past 20 years. Regardless, Maryland sounds like they have the better job (perhaps Williams deserves some blame).
I'm not sure if you meant to say blame, but a more fitting word would be credit. After the Len Bias tragedy, Maryland was stunned, and Lefty resigned. Then Maryland made an awful hire with Wade, who managed to, in no time, get Maryland put on probation for the only time ever. Gary came in and dug the program out of the depths of the hell it was in, and in a little over a decade, turned them into a national champion. The Comcast Center is on campus because of his resurrection of the program. We can say whatever we want about the recruiting and some of the teams in recent years, but Maryland basketball is the elite job it is, in large part because of Gary Williams. Also don't forget, that as recently as 2010, Maryland had a Final Four caliber team that lost on a buzzer beater to eventual Final Four rep Michigan State. Gary is one of the best teachers of the game there's ever been.
Muskied
05-07-2011, 01:41 PM
So then is Maryland is a pimped out Escalade?
xudash
05-07-2011, 02:25 PM
It really looks like he's going to take the job, and the Zona fans are rightfully incredulous:
http://forum.goazcats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
It really looks like he's going to take the job, and the Zona fans are rightfully incredulous:
http://forum.goazcats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
I read some of those comments. I got a little irked when one was incredulous that Miller would leave the "premier" basketball program of the West after coming from a "crap non-BCS program like Xavier", just to go to Maryland.
For me, the incredulity still arises from the move from Xavier to Arizona, not Arizona to Maryland. I always knew Sean would end up in the ACC, but the brief stint out in the desert will always perplex me. I didn't think he really needed the stop in Tuscon to get where he ultimately wanted to go (ACC country).
I think the brevity of the AZ stint proves that was never really where he wanted to be. And yet...he left Xavier to go there.
GuyFawkes38
05-07-2011, 02:41 PM
For me, the incredulity still arises from the move from Xavier to Arizona, not Arizona to Maryland. I always knew Sean would end up in the ACC, but the brief stint out in the desert will always perplex me. I didn't think he really needed the stop in Tuscon to get where he ultimately wanted to go (ACC country).
Things are still up in the air.
Assuming he does leave, I guess there's 2 possibilities:
1. Sean Miller is an ass. He knew he would only be at zona for a few years until Maryland, uconn, syracuse, etc. opened up. Arizona was a stepping stone.
2. Sean Miller thought he and his family could adapt to Tucson. Yes, he loved the east coast, but maybe things change. They didn't change. He missed the east coast. His wife hated Tucson, he had to bolt.
The second possibility makes Miller look a little better.
Regardless, it's a crappy situation for AZ if he does bolt.
xudash
05-07-2011, 02:46 PM
I read some of those comments. I got a little irked when one was incredulous that Miller would leave the "premier" basketball program of the West after coming from a "crap non-BCS program like Xavier", just to go to Maryland.
For me, the incredulity still arises from the move from Xavier to Arizona, not Arizona to Maryland. I always knew Sean would end up in the ACC, but the brief stint out in the desert will always perplex me. I didn't think he really needed the stop in Tuscon to get where he ultimately wanted to go (ACC country).
I think the brevity of the AZ stint proves that was never really where he wanted to be. And yet...he left Xavier to go there.
I didn't catch that a-holes comment about Xavier. In that case, I hope he personally enjoys watching Sean fly out of town for good, and then enjoys watching their apparently poor AD make a bad hire to send them to BCS oblivion.
Otherwise, Sean's wife is having serious allergy issues in the desert, it seems. Gotta keep the family happy in order to do well in your job.
At the risk of sounding ignorant, I have to be honest. If Miller leaves for Maryland, I will find some small satisfaction.
When he left a potentially loaded Xavier team two years ago to rebuild Arizona, all we could hear was that Arizona was one of the "top 5" jobs in college basketball and that this was a rare opportunity for Sean.
Well apparently, there are a lot of "top 5" jobs in college basketball, and "rare" means once every two years.
MuskieCinci
05-07-2011, 02:58 PM
I'm not a fan of being a stepping stone to a stepping stone though.
XU 87
05-07-2011, 03:05 PM
How? Maryland is a better job than Arizona.
it's a TOP job.
I don't necessarily disagree with you except to point out one thing- Maryland is still, at best, the third best job in the conference.
But I can't help but think that he's also doing this for his family. His wife never wanted to leave Cincinnati and I've heard she doesn't like Tuscon. I was also reading the thread on the UA board and she apparently has terrible allergies out there.
Xavier
05-07-2011, 03:20 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with you except to point out one thing- Maryland is still, at best, the third best job in the conference.
But I can't help but think that he's also doing this for his family. His wife never wanted to leave Cincinnati and I've heard she doesn't like Tuscon. I was also reading the thread on the UA board and she apparently has terrible allergies out there.
haha...I love how crazy message boards can get.
haha...I love how crazy message boards can get.
Actually, I saw the same thing on the message board and they had a link to her twitter account. (Yes, I read it.) Here are some of her posts:
Might have to head back east or to the west doesn't matter just away from desert. Shots can't help soon enough
Maybe I can borrow spacesuit for protection ;) seriously if you see me in mask...don't ask
An all new low...allergic to everything in the desert! Doc can't believe it. Where can I hide?
These are all since May 4.
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Not even remotely correct in any way actually. Amy, Sean, and his kids really enjoy Tucson and will stay (read my prior post) He wouldn't leave in a nano second or he would have done that for NC State who was gonna offer him around 4 million dollars a year.
Yeah, she loves the desert, but just can't breathe.
bobbiemcgee
05-07-2011, 03:52 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PWR3w2VkSZs/TDtJLiryFdI/AAAAAAAACOM/EIRkDjX4W24/s1600/Bubble+Girl+004.jpg
Az counteroffer
Xavier
05-07-2011, 04:44 PM
Actually, I saw the same thing on the message board and they had a link to her twitter account. (Yes, I read it.) Here are some of her posts:
Might have to head back east or to the west doesn't matter just away from desert. Shots can't help soon enough
Maybe I can borrow spacesuit for protection ;) seriously if you see me in mask...don't ask
An all new low...allergic to everything in the desert! Doc can't believe it. Where can I hide?
These are all since May 4.
I wasn't questioning it--just crazy how deep people go into things when the coach is rumored too be looking at another job.
I don't necessarily disagree with you except to point out one thing- Maryland is still, at best, the third best job in the conference.
But I can't help but think that he's also doing this for his family. His wife never wanted to leave Cincinnati and I've heard she doesn't like Tuscon. I was also reading the thread on the UA board and she apparently has terrible allergies out there.
Man, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if she's got bad allergies, DC is not going to be all that much better, at least for most. My mom had to get shots weekly for the first 15 years or so that she lived out here. From what I've heard though, she'll probably like it a lot more out here than in the desert.
As for the Maryland job, of course Duke and UNC aren't going anywhere, but Maryland has every opportunity to be back up at that level and be just as good a program as those two (spare me all-time BS, I'm referring to current states of programs.)
ZONACAT
05-07-2011, 05:05 PM
I read some of those comments. I got a little irked when one was incredulous that Miller would leave the "premier" basketball program of the West after coming from a "crap non-BCS program like Xavier", just to go to Maryland.
For me, the incredulity still arises from the move from Xavier to Arizona, not Arizona to Maryland. I always knew Sean would end up in the ACC, but the brief stint out in the desert will always perplex me. I didn't think he really needed the stop in Tuscon to get where he ultimately wanted to go (ACC country).
I think the brevity of the AZ stint proves that was never really where he wanted to be. And yet...he left Xavier to go there.
Ya, some of our fans kinda suck. Xavier is a big-time program IMO.
jco17
05-07-2011, 09:56 PM
I forgot you know everything.
Kevin Anderson is finally realizing what he walked into. Maryland did major expansion on their football stadium and other athletic complexes and can't pay them off. He is busy trying to fill a fundraising staff to get actual cash. Maryland also is going to continue to pay Gary and Ralph Friedgen.
Boosters were leaving Gary when Patsos left for Loyola. They wanted to get in on the ground floor with the guy they thought would replace Gary. It took them about three years to realize Jimmy wasn't going to be the guy and they all returned. There are certainly people who dislike Gary, but there isn't enough of them to push him out or tell the new AD they'd be up to pay for what they think is a better coach.
Kevin Plank is going to crank out as much money as he can. But Under Armor is not Nike, and Maryland is not Oregon.
I have no idea how they think they can afford to lure Dixon out of Pitt and Wright out of Nova. Let alone move Sean clear across the country.
DC, I love you dude, but you didn't read my post very well at all. Re-read it. I don't know what their able to pay or not pay. I said as much. Word is Dixon wasn't a candidate for some reason. Sean Miller is their main candidate and he very well may take the job.
jco17
05-07-2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah, she loves the desert, but just can't breathe.
She does have allergies. She likes Tucson, the UofA, the people, and the community. She does have allergy problems though, I will give you that 100%
jco17
05-07-2011, 10:02 PM
I read some of those comments. I got a little irked when one was incredulous that Miller would leave the "premier" basketball program of the West after coming from a "crap non-BCS program like Xavier", just to go to Maryland.
For me, the incredulity still arises from the move from Xavier to Arizona, not Arizona to Maryland. I always knew Sean would end up in the ACC, but the brief stint out in the desert will always perplex me. I didn't think he really needed the stop in Tuscon to get where he ultimately wanted to go (ACC country).
I think the brevity of the AZ stint proves that was never really where he wanted to be. And yet...he left Xavier to go there.
There are morons everywhere. Don't be offended by narrow minded idiots like that in any way. Some people's arrogance is sickening. Most people don't think before they speak and what they do speak is just vomiting retardation anyway. Any level-headed fan has a lot of respect for Xavier.
jco17
05-07-2011, 10:04 PM
jco17,
What is the website for tracking flights that you guys used to watch Miller flying around as he was holding meetings with your AD?
This is fun. We get to sit back and watch this time, knowing Mack is secure at X.
It sounds like we need to set up the site to track flights out of South Bend.
Otherwise, Jay Wright will just be sneaky and Matta his way down I-95 for a meeting or three. He'll be harder to track, until someone nails him with an iPhone pick.
NO need to track flights, Sean met with the Maryland AD at Vegas today. Not sure the details as of yet, but if he had said yes to Maryland we would know by now. Also, I'm glad you guys don't have to go through this right now and get to sit back. Mack is awesome. I'm very glad he is as Xavier. I hope he stays there until he retires.
jco17
05-07-2011, 10:17 PM
Ahhh. I remember a time when we used to be cocksure about the stability of our head coaching position, but Matta and Miller have stripped that innocence from us, now haven't they?
Don't ever believe that you're different and it will never happen to you. when Matta left, everyone was certain that he wouldn't. How could a guy leave a team that he had just taken to the elite 8 for an afterthought program that was in turmoil, on the cusp of NCAA sanctions? Well, it happened.
Believe me, I'm scared he's leaving, I really am. Just not for the reasons stated. I've been told by people who would know without a shadow of a doubt, he would not take the Pitt Job. Now the Maryland job is a different ball game.
jco17
05-07-2011, 10:20 PM
The AZ AD blew it not getting the extension done. Fodder for huge payday now or bolt to MD.
110% right. This is fact. Our AD is a GD Moron who could F up a wet dream. If he had given Sean what he was asking for 2 months ago, this is a non issue until either Duke or UNC open up.
AZtoCA
05-07-2011, 10:30 PM
Anything going on?
AZtoCA
05-07-2011, 10:30 PM
I heard about somebody playing hopscotch.
Xavier
05-08-2011, 12:33 AM
Sean miller to stay at AZ and announce contract extention---big news for AZ. I stay true to my statement when they Hired him--He will take them to the final four and will win the NC with AZ.
bobbiemcgee
05-08-2011, 12:59 AM
110% right. This is fact. Our AD is a GD Moron who could F up a wet dream. If he had given Sean what he was asking for 2 months ago, this is a non issue until either Duke or UNC open up.
Well played by Sean. I'm sure he got whatever the hell he wanted. Nice save for AZ. He can send the wife to Fiji for the offseasons forever. Hell, he can buy Fiji. The guy is a helluva BB coach and recruiter for sure.
doug204
05-08-2011, 03:04 AM
How? Maryland is a better job than Arizona. I don't understand how people don't understand that. Better exposure, better league, better recruits in your backyard, better fan base, better arena, better facilities, better market, better coaching and team rivalries. Better everything except weather. It's everything he could ever dream of as a coach (and by some accounts, exactly everything he has ever dreamed of.) He would be living in one of the wealthiest, nicest counties/towns in America, outside one of the most powerful cities in the world, and could recruit all kids within an hour drive of his garage if he wanted, although he will be recruiting nationally too because he's Sean Miller. How many east coast families just want to up and move to the west for the rest of their lives? We all know Amy Miller and the kids didn't want to two years ago. Do you guys not remember the Maryland fans and students a decade ago? They were second to absolutely NOBODY. There's a reason that every coach under the age of 55 seems to badly want this job: it's a TOP job.
Not it's not.
1. The Pac-12 just signed a contract with ESPN/Fox. Those days of only playing on national TV when its against UCLA are over.
2. Better recruits in the back yard are nice but Gary burned so many bridges it's not even funny. Plus, Miller can hand pick recruits from California (as he's already done), sneak into Texas every now and then and only worry about UCLA stealing them. The #4 class as ranked by scout proves it can be done. 2012 might actually top 2011 and 2013 has the potential to be better than that.
3. Sean doesn't "technically" live in Tucson...he lives in the Catalina Foothills which is right next to Oro Vally, just 20 minutes outside of Tucson, one of the wealthiest places to live in Arizona and has some of the best school systems one could ask for.
4. Arizona is still upgrading facilities and they are nice as is. However, ESPN dubbed McKale Center a hardwood Heaven two months ago and after the white out Sean Miller said he had never experience an atmosphere like that before.
5. Arizona was ranked #4 in revenue this past season and that was before the new TV contract. Some season tickets are up to 2K and require a 40K donation, that isn't small time at all. Played before 99% capacity since the building opened and has sold out season tickets 21 of the past 26 seasons. Better fans? don't think so. Maryland fans are horrible...google it.
6. Won't argue better league, but as of recent the ACC has been nothing to brag about.
7. Amy Miller not liking Tucson is pure speculation however the kids and Sean love it, so false information there.
8. Dixon was ultimately not interested and Miller turned them down publicly. Oh yes everyone is licking their chops to get to the Maryland job. You're overrating the job just like their fans, unless you are a fan.
9. Miller hasn't been on good terms with the AD lately and really wanted a pay raise for his assistants as he feels they're just as important to the program as he is, especially book. He was interested in Maryland but not interested enough to leave.
You can continue to deny it but the facts are there. Arizona is not a stepping stone job.
jco17
05-08-2011, 10:49 AM
doug, Maryland was a job that Sean coveted. That's a fact. However, he wanted to stay at Arizona if Byrne stopped messing him around. Thank you Maryland for waking up our AD! Like I maintained, it would have been Arizona's blunder had he left.
Not it's not.
1. The Pac-12 just signed a contract with ESPN/Fox. Those days of only playing on national TV when its against UCLA are over.
2. Better recruits in the back yard are nice but Gary burned so many bridges it's not even funny. Plus, Miller can hand pick recruits from California (as he's already done), sneak into Texas every now and then and only worry about UCLA stealing them. The #4 class as ranked by scout proves it can be done. 2012 might actually top 2011 and 2013 has the potential to be better than that.
3. Sean doesn't "technically" live in Tucson...he lives in the Catalina Foothills which is right next to Oro Vally, just 20 minutes outside of Tucson, one of the wealthiest places to live in Arizona and has some of the best school systems one could ask for.
4. Arizona is still upgrading facilities and they are nice as is. However, ESPN dubbed McKale Center a hardwood Heaven two months ago and after the white out Sean Miller said he had never experience an atmosphere like that before.
5. Arizona was ranked #4 in revenue this past season and that was before the new TV contract. Some season tickets are up to 2K and require a 40K donation, that isn't small time at all. Played before 99% capacity since the building opened and has sold out season tickets 21 of the past 26 seasons. Better fans? don't think so. Maryland fans are horrible...google it.
6. Won't argue better league, but as of recent the ACC has been nothing to brag about.
7. Amy Miller not liking Tucson is pure speculation however the kids and Sean love it, so false information there.
8. Dixon was ultimately not interested and Miller turned them down publicly. Oh yes everyone is licking their chops to get to the Maryland job. You're overrating the job just like their fans, unless you are a fan.
9. Miller hasn't been on good terms with the AD lately and really wanted a pay raise for his assistants as he feels they're just as important to the program as he is, especially book. He was interested in Maryland but not interested enough to leave.
You can continue to deny it but the facts are there. Arizona is not a stepping stone job.
Wow, some of you Arizona fans crack me up. The point is moot now, it appears, but let's get a few things straight for you:
1. Regardless of having more games on ESPN, most people on the east will be sleeping by the time Arizona tips off in many of them. More exposure, sure. But not as much as the ACC by any means.
2. Gary did "burn bridges" (not really the best term) with AAU and local guys, but what does that have to do with anything? There is no one area in the west that consistently produced talent like the DC and Baltimore areas over the past decade plus. That area happens to be smack in the middle of where UMD is. Plus, Sean could recruit nationally at both UA and UMD. He could just as, if not more easily bring in top recruiting classes to Maryland.
3. Sean wouldn't technically live in College Park either. He'd live in Montogmery County, one of the wealthiest, most affluent counties in America which is second to none in education. On top of just education, he has three boys who are all going to play basketball. The high school teams and AAU teams in this area absolutely put those of the Tuscon area to shame. It's really no comparison. Better competition might make the little Millers better players, methinks.
4. I'm sure your arena is alright, but the Comcast Center is a beautiful state-of-the-art on campus masterpiece. The atmosphere is outstanding and would be second to none if Maryland returned to where it was a decade ago. The facilities at Maryland are better than those at Arizona, and that's just a statement of fact.
5. This is laughable. Google it? Is that where you've been getting your information? No wonder you're so misinformed. Again, IF Maryland returns to where it was, the support revenue will be unbelievable. This is Washington, DC. Like it or not, the market and potential for growth will always be far ahead of Tuscon, Arizona. Add that to the incredibly passionate fan base, whose been itching for years for a return to glory. Maryland fans may be known for their tasteless ways of cheering and celebrating, but they are second to none when it comes to atmosphere. I'll put up the Terps fans of the 02 championship vs. the Wilcats fans of the 97 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
6. ACC has been down, but would you rather your main coaching rivals be Howland and Romar, or K and Roy? I guess that depends on what kind of competitor you are.
7. I never said they don't like Tuscon and may love it for all I know. Do they love it more than their home of the east coast? How many families uproot from the part(s) of the country they've loved their whole lives, move thousands of miles away, and two years later love it more there? I can't speak for the Millers, but common logic would suggest the east coast probably has more appeal than the desert for them.
8. This may possibly be your dumbest comment yet. Miller was very close to being gone. I don't buy for a second that this was just a negotiation tact. Miller was interested in Maryland for awhile. I'm sure the details of why a deal couldn't get done will come out, so we'll see, but let's not pretend like he was set on staying the whole time.
9. Again, your tone is ridiculous. You were probably one of the ones bitching and moaning about how your AD just lost your head coach last night, thinking Miller was gone, that Arizona IS a stepping stone, and that you're about to start all over again. Not ONE person on the Zona board remained confident during the entirety of the last few days, so spare me that bullshit.
Ask every coach in America whether he'd rather have the Arizona job or the Maryland job tomorrow, and see what school gets more votes of approval, that's all I've got to say. I'll sum it up one more time. Given conference affiliation, exposure, location, fan base, and overall potential, among other things, Maryland is generally a more attractive job than Arizona.
Congrats on keeping a great coach.
GuyFawkes38
05-08-2011, 01:49 PM
There are some rumors floating around in the media that Maryland didn't offer the cash that Sean was expecting and was turned off by that.
But who knows. The media hasn't exactly gotten this story right.
There are some rumors floating around in the media that Maryland didn't offer the cash that Sean was expecting and was turned off by that.
But who knows. The media hasn't exactly gotten this story right.
That would be disappointing, if true, but I can't overemphasize how false the notion that Maryland can't pay is. Whether they're willing to pay a certain price, I don't know.
Xavier
05-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Not it's not.
6. Won't argue better league, but as of recent the ACC has been nothing to brag about.
7. Amy Miller not liking Tucson is pure speculation however the kids and Sean love it, so false information there.
I'm not sure which job is better- I think they are actually on the same level. (Which is kind of why I thought he would take the Maryland job- I pegged Sean as an East Coast guy). But, these points are laughable.
1--ACC team just won the national championship last year>?
2--Its pure speculation how Amy Miller feels about Tuscon but it isn't when we talk about the kids/sean?!? Why?
Xavgrad08
05-08-2011, 02:38 PM
Jeff Goodman is reporting Brad Stevens has now spurned interest from Maryland. According to Goodman Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon and Sean Miller have all declined the Maryland Job. Mike Brey is now the number one target.
AZtoCA
05-08-2011, 04:02 PM
Forbes List Most Revenue
1 Duke $26,667,056 2.64
2 Louisville $25,890,003 2.57
3 North Carolina $20,551,168 2.04
4 Arizona $19,285,038
24 Maryland $10,739,282 1.06
25 NC State $10,354,157 1.03
http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2011/03/07/duke-louisville-north-carolina-generate-the-most-college-basketball-revenue/
Maryland doesn't have the Cash
DC Muskie
05-08-2011, 04:18 PM
Oregon has Nike, MD has the Under Armour guy (loaded).
That would be disappointing, if true, but I can't overemphasize how false the notion that Maryland can't pay is. Whether they're willing to pay a certain price, I don't know.
I can't stress enough how Kevin Plank is not Phil Knight. Under Armor is not Nike. There is no equivalent to Nike. Kevin Plank was unable to bring in an Under Armor coach in Mike Leach to lead the Terps program. Someone on the Board of Regents, or the president himself wasn't willing to pull the trigger on Leach because of his situation at Texas Tech. Despite the fact that Maryland is a basketball school, it's in Plank's best interest to have Maryland be pretty good in football. They did major expansion with luxury suits and all that, and they have been unable to have those things paid for. Under Armor is not building buildings at Maryland like Phil Knight is doing at Oregon. Due to the Leach situation, it shows that Plank's influence in the Maryland program has a ceiling.
PMI's point shows either two things.
One, they actually don't have the money to pay someone, which I have pointed out that the expansion of the football program, the paying off of other coaches, etc, or the Maryland job is not coveted enough in terms of what they are willing to pay. And if they entered this process thinking their prestige would be the tipping point in their favor, then they were seriously misguided. It's the first weekend in May. They needed to pay a large amount to pull Arizona's coach to College Park. Maryland is not a national program.
I'm a huge Gary Williams fan. I think he is a tremendous basketball coach. But his resignation is going to have effect on the program that is not good. No Miller, No Dixon, No Wright, and now apparently, No Brey.
You can't just point out Maryland has boosters like Plank and like the Trash Raven owner and think there are bundles of money willing to be dumped into the basketball program. Maryland's athletic health financially is tied, just like everyone else who play in these Big 6 conference, to football.
I don't have any inside knowledge, and this is just purely speculation on my part, but if there was a price the boosters were willing to put in, it could be done on Plank's end, in part because his football program was only able to land Connecticut's football coach.
I can't stress enough how Kevin Plank is not Phil Knight. Under Armor is not Nike. There is no equivalent to Nike. Kevin Plank was unable to bring in an Under Armor coach in Mike Leach to lead the Terps program. Someone on the Board of Regents, or the president himself wasn't willing to pull the trigger on Leach because of his situation at Texas Tech. Despite the fact that Maryland is a basketball school, it's in Plank's best interest to have Maryland be pretty good in football. They did major expansion with luxury suits and all that, and they have been unable to have those things paid for. Under Armor is not building buildings at Maryland like Phil Knight is doing at Oregon. Due to the Leach situation, it shows that Plank's influence in the Maryland program has a ceiling.
PMI's point shows either two things.
One, they actually don't have the money to pay someone, which I have pointed out that the expansion of the football program, the paying off of other coaches, etc, or the Maryland job is not coveted enough in terms of what they are willing to pay. And if they entered this process thinking their prestige would be the tipping point in their favor, then they were seriously misguided. It's the first weekend in May. They needed to pay a large amount to pull Arizona's coach to College Park. Maryland is not a national program.
I'm a huge Gary Williams fan. I think he is a tremendous basketball coach. But his resignation is going to have effect on the program that is not good. No Miller, No Dixon, No Wright, and now apparently, No Brey.
You can't just point out Maryland has boosters like Plank and like the Trash Raven owner and think there are bundles of money willing to be dumped into the basketball program. Maryland's athletic health financially is tied, just like everyone else who play in these Big 6 conference, to football.
I don't have any inside knowledge, and this is just purely speculation on my part, but if there was a price the boosters were willing to put in, it could be done on Plank's end, in part because his football program was only able to land Connecticut's football coach.
I don't understand what the comparison of Plank to Knight is supposed to mean. Nobody said Plank is richer than Knight. But among the UMD boosters, including Plank, Maryland can absolutely afford a high-end coach if they're willing to pay, which they seem to disappointingly not be. Paying big dollars for a basketball coach at the University of Maryland is an investment that WOULD pay off if it was matched with on-court success. Of course Plank's influence has a ceiling. The guy isn't Bill Gates. But we're talking about 2-3 million dollars for a coach who you have to believe would turn Maryland into a constant competitor, which in turn would turn Maryland into one of the most powerful, valuable programs. It has managed to stay in the Top 25 in that regard despite struggling most of the last 10 years. I think most of you guys are VASTLY underestimating the potential of Maryland basketball, and I think if Maryland does make a slam dunk hire (Stevens), this will become obvious in little time.
The Leach situation is completely unrelated to this, and it was MARYLAND, not Leach, who decided against it first. Leach was always a hot name (overrated as shit in my opinion) to come to coach football at a basketball school, but he was not worth the risk to Kevin Anderson. Maryland made a good hire in Edsall, I think, but who else would you have taken? It's not like they can lure Saban to a basketball school. Anderson (and Plank and company) made the best hire they could in their minds to take Maryland football to the next level. We will see in the next couple years whether or not it was a good move or not.
Two days ago, Miller, Wright, Dixon and everyone else was reportedly interested in the UMD job, and now they aren't, so you have to imagine that Maryland is not offering the contract that these coaches wanted. I believe UMD thought they could get a big time coach without paying as much as they had to, but I do not believe for one second that they are incapable of paying. I've talked to too many UMD contacts in the know who I trust to believe that. I think Anderson and the boosters are making the mistake of thinking that if their first couple choices won't take the deal they've offered, they could still do just as well with the next few choices. I don't think they see Sean Miller as the can't miss/must get guy that I think he is, unfortunately. The whole thing will become a lot more clear in the coming days, but I'm disappointed with the way the search has gone so far.
waggy
05-08-2011, 05:33 PM
I find it surprising that there could be a meeting before determining at least in general terms what the financial expectations were on both sides. If Maryland really thought they could get Miller for a lesser or even equal package (staff, everything) then they aren't very smart. On the other hand, maybe they felt they had to at least take a shot at Miller even if it turned out not good enough. Who knows.
smileyy
05-08-2011, 05:59 PM
I find it surprising that there could be a meeting before determining at least in general terms what the financial expectations were on both sides. If Maryland really thought they could get Miller for a lesser or even equal package (staff, everything) then they aren't very smart. On the other hand, maybe they felt they had to at least take a shot at Miller even if it turned out not good enough. Who knows.
It's also possible that Miller was going to listen to any offer to use as leverage with Arizona.
It's also possible that Miller was going to listen to any offer to use as leverage with Arizona.
He would have done that with NC State if that were the case. He had legitimate interest in the Maryland job.
smileyy
05-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Well, any offer from Maryland (terms undisclosed to AZ of course). If Miller had told the AZ administration that he was interested in the NC State job, I bet they would have called his bluff.
jco17
05-08-2011, 08:33 PM
It's also possible that Miller was going to listen to any offer to use as leverage with Arizona.
That's exactly what he did with Maryland. Nobody was worried about NC State, nobody. Everybody was worried about Maryland because it was a much better job. I can't say enough how thankful I am to Gary Williams. Miller was not happy with his contract and Williams gave Miller the leverage he needed to get everything he wanted. We knew this was up to our AD and he swallowed his pride and came through.
I think Greg Byrne thought, he could wait a few years before another job of this stature would open up and save some money. That's moronic, but he was dicking Sean around. Gary Williams retires, Miller has interest, our fan base harrasses Byrne, and he gives Sean what he should have been given in the first place. Believe me, it's not like Miller was asking for anything the coaching staff didn't deserve.
Everytime a big time program opens up his name will be one their top wanted list. It was the same way with Lute Olson. We were told to only be scared of a few schools. Maryland, UNC, UK, and Syracuse. Well we can strike one of those from the list. I didn't mention Duke because I've been hearing for a while they will likely have a replacement.
bobbiemcgee
05-08-2011, 08:34 PM
Kevin Plank has a net worth of close to 500 million. Sure he could guarantee whatever contract he wants.
jco17
05-08-2011, 08:35 PM
Well, any offer from Maryland (terms undisclosed to AZ of course). If Miller had told the AZ administration that he was interested in the NC State job, I bet they would have called his bluff.
Everybody laughed at NC State and they had to settle for mediocrity. They need to fire Debbie Yow and they may be able to get something positive done around there.
ZONACAT
05-08-2011, 09:03 PM
Count me in the group that is surprised MD is having this much trouble making a hire. Brey is a lunatic for turning the job down but I thought Dixon or Wright would have been smart enough to take it.
I also think Brad Stevens is making a massive mistake not making a move this off-season. How great will Butler be without Mack and Howard? Meh. I don't see how he can wait on the Indiana job when Crean finally gets his talent in and Butler's talent has been turned over. Crean isn't that poor a coach.
This is twice now Arizona has been fortunate with Sean Miller. But I think the "SM wants back East" meme can officially die. I don't see a job opening up outside of UK that will be able to pull SM from the monster that is Arizona recruiting. I know he left an amazing team at Xavier. Duke will hire from the family and Roy will be around another 10 years at least.
Very happy Mack stayed at X and seems set to do so until he retirees.
DC Muskie
05-08-2011, 09:24 PM
I don't understand what the comparison of Plank to Knight is supposed to mean. Nobody said Plank is richer than Knight. But among the UMD boosters, including Plank, Maryland can absolutely afford a high-end coach if they're willing to pay, which they seem to disappointingly not be. Paying big dollars for a basketball coach at the University of Maryland is an investment that WOULD pay off if it was matched with on-court success. Of course Plank's influence has a ceiling. The guy isn't Bill Gates. But we're talking about 2-3 million dollars for a coach who you have to believe would turn Maryland into a constant competitor, which in turn would turn Maryland into one of the most powerful, valuable programs. It has managed to stay in the Top 25 in that regard despite struggling most of the last 10 years. I think most of you guys are VASTLY underestimating the potential of Maryland basketball, and I think if Maryland does make a slam dunk hire (Stevens), this will become obvious in little time.
The Leach situation is completely unrelated to this, and it was MARYLAND, not Leach, who decided against it first. Leach was always a hot name (overrated as shit in my opinion) to come to coach football at a basketball school, but he was not worth the risk to Kevin Anderson. Maryland made a good hire in Edsall, I think, but who else would you have taken? It's not like they can lure Saban to a basketball school. Anderson (and Plank and company) made the best hire they could in their minds to take Maryland football to the next level. We will see in the next couple years whether or not it was a good move or not.
Two days ago, Miller, Wright, Dixon and everyone else was reportedly interested in the UMD job, and now they aren't, so you have to imagine that Maryland is not offering the contract that these coaches wanted. I believe UMD thought they could get a big time coach without paying as much as they had to, but I do not believe for one second that they are incapable of paying. I've talked to too many UMD contacts in the know who I trust to believe that. I think Anderson and the boosters are making the mistake of thinking that if their first couple choices won't take the deal they've offered, they could still do just as well with the next few choices. I don't think they see Sean Miller as the can't miss/must get guy that I think he is, unfortunately. The whole thing will become a lot more clear in the coming days, but I'm disappointed with the way the search has gone so far.
PMI, the people I have talked to about this, and I'm not sure how correct they are, the biggest thing they have told me is...they don't have the money to pay for whomever they want. Especially when you are talking about bringing in a head coach from another school at this late date.
And I think that has been proven to be true.
Everybody seems to bring Plank into the discussion. Meaning, if Kevin Plank is on board with the hire, a couple million dollars thrown at whatever coach, that coach would come.
Well, last year Oregon was looking for a basketball coach. It has Nike money behind it. They ended up with the Creighton coach. Now Oregon is not a basketball powerhouse by any means, but there should have been leverage for a coach to get paid. But no hot coach would go near that job.
Maryland is a much better basketball school then Oregon. But you can't look at this as a basketball hire and forget everything else. Maryland needs revenue. Maryland competes at such a high level on other sports. Take lacrosse. They hired Cornell's coach. That takes some money. Their women's sports are top notch. They are paid very well.
To say that Leach's non hiring has nothing to do this with is beyond short sighted. And if the Maryland people you are talking to, then they need to talk to the Maryland people I'm talking to. The greatest revenue you can generate in college sports is football. Maryland is not going to hire Saban. I'm not suggesting that. But they needed to hire someone that has the appearance that it was a bigger name than Frigden. They failed on that front. They are not going to sell more tickets, or luxury suites with Edsall as the coach. Now if he does well, they have the potential to have those suites paid for. If they hire a good basketball coach, people are going to want season tickets. In order to do that, they need to buy football season tickets. That's just the way it is at Maryland.
Let's take a realistic look view at Under Armor. Since Maryland went to Under Armor exclusively, they have been on a downward trend in football and basketball. Look at football, beyond Auburn, where is the success that Under Armor is experiencing? Where is it in basketball? Sean Miller is a Nike Guy. Nike is able to pay Miller $400K or so in compensation beyond his contract with Arizona. Where is Under Armor's money to at least match that, let alone go beyond? If Plank is able to pay that, then why didn't he? If it's because he wasn't willing, then why wasn't he? If you are able to see the benefit of that investment, which I agree with you, then why didn't he? Sean Miller would have been the face of Under Armor basketball. Where is the money to back up that face?
Like I stated before, if there is money to pay a coach, then why in the world would they pursue Miller if that the end the day they weren't willing to pay what he expected? If they thought the prestige of Maryland would bring them in, then there are some stupid people running Maryland.
I hope they hire a great coach. But if that coach isn't at least looked at as being "overpaid" then the idea that Maryland boosters can set up to the plate is to me, flat out wrong. If Plank is thought of as an asset, and you have to assume he is a smart business guy, giving Miller an additional $1million outside a contract should have been able. If $1 million extra is nothing to Plank's pocket, then I would agree Maryland can pay anyone it wants. But if he doesn't pay, then how can you argue they have it. Other than the argument you have made that they are unwilling to pay.
Kevin Anderson is not that dumb. At least I hope not. If this list of head coaches who would be interest in this job is true, than it's his job to line up the money. If they are able to land Stevens, I will be shocked. I seriously doubt Maryland will be willing to pay him what he wanted when Sean Miller was there for the taking.
As I have mentioned before, Anderson has brought people in to help with athletic fundraising. He understands how woefully under performing Maryland is in that aspect. In my experience with fundraising, most donors want to be a apart of a team. No one gives money to losing ventures. And Maryland is not exactly a winning proposal right now. Plank and Trashy Ravens Owner and people like Raul Fernandez, who in my experience of working with keeps his money crammed up his tight ass, are not going to dole it out if no one else is on board. And if they are unwilling to dole it for Sean Miller, then they get what they deserve.
I'm with you in thinking the way this search has gone is disappointing. But there are serious money problems at Maryland. And so far this process has proved that. I'd be surprised if at a later date something else is directing the train.
DC Muskie
05-08-2011, 09:36 PM
That's exactly what he did with Maryland. Nobody was worried about NC State, nobody. Everybody was worried about Maryland because it was a much better job. I can't say enough how thankful I am to Gary Williams. Miller was not happy with his contract and Williams gave Miller the leverage he needed to get everything he wanted. We knew this was up to our AD and he swallowed his pride and came through.
I think Greg Byrne thought, he could wait a few years before another job of this stature would open up and save some money. That's moronic, but he was dicking Sean around. Gary Williams retires, Miller has interest, our fan base harrasses Byrne, and he gives Sean what he should have been given in the first place. Believe me, it's not like Miller was asking for anything the coaching staff didn't deserve.
Everytime a big time program opens up his name will be one their top wanted list. It was the same way with Lute Olson. We were told to only be scared of a few schools. Maryland, UNC, UK, and Syracuse. Well we can strike one of those from the list. I didn't mention Duke because I've been hearing for a while they will likely have a replacement.
Why is it in two years Sean was upset with his contract? And why is it that Maryland was a place to worry about, if at the end of the day, the contract which he signed less than two years ago, which was apparently so terribly undervalued, was able to be bumped when Maryland opened up?
What exactly did the coaching staff do to show that in less than two years time they deserved more?
Kevin Plank has a net worth of close to 500 million. Sure he could guarantee whatever contract he wants.
And yet his ceiling is not that high at his Alma Mater. He doesn't need to be Bill Gates, but it's not like he is building huge buildings with his or Under Armor's name on them.
Everybody laughed at NC State and they had to settle for mediocrity. They need to fire Debbie Yow and they may be able to get something positive done around there.
I dislike Debbie Yow as the next person, and really, I'm glad Gary and Yow are both gone, because both personally are school children when it comes to acting professionally. But I have to give her credit. She made a great hire in my opinion with Gottfried. Sidney Lowe was a stupid hire, but Gottfried is going to be better than him. And NC State is not going to fire her any time soon, due to the family connection she has down there.
bobbiemcgee
05-08-2011, 10:58 PM
He does ok with them for sure.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-04-09/sports/bs-sp-terps-kevin-plank-0410-20110409_1_maryland-athletics-maryland-football-coach-maryland-special-teams
DC Muskie
05-08-2011, 11:21 PM
He does ok with them for sure.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-04-09/sports/bs-sp-terps-kevin-plank-0410-20110409_1_maryland-athletics-maryland-football-coach-maryland-special-teams
Sorry Bobbie...providing chartered planes in my view is that not big of deal. Xavier can get chartered planes.
That article pretty much proves me point.
"I don't like being the centerpiece or a portion of the story," he said in an interview. "I don't want to be characterized as the big booster guy."
Plank and Trashy Ravens Owner and people like Raul Fernandez, who in my experience of working with keeps his money crammed up his tight ass, are not going to dole it out if no one else is on board. And if they are unwilling to dole it for Sean Miller, then they get what they deserve.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with Plank. These young Maryland grads, like Plank, like Fernandez, aren't giving out money. As I mentioned:
Let's take a realistic look view at Under Armor. Since Maryland went to Under Armor exclusively, they have been on a downward trend in football and basketball. Look at football, beyond Auburn, where is the success that Under Armor is experiencing? Where is it in basketball? Sean Miller is a Nike Guy. Nike is able to pay Miller $400K or so in compensation beyond his contract with Arizona. Where is Under Armor's money to at least match that, let alone go beyond? If Plank is able to pay that, then why didn't he? If it's because he wasn't willing, then why wasn't he? If you are able to see the benefit of that investment, which I agree with you, then why didn't he? Sean Miller would have been the face of Under Armor basketball. Where is the money to back up that face?
He gives out money for a chartered flights, but can't come up money to pay the face of his company? Or is he not getting the return on his investment he made three years ago.
Next season Maryland football will be sporting some of the ugliest uniforms in the country. Which is funny when I read this sentence:
"More recently, the university has been working with the Baltimore-based company on updating the marks and logos used on teams' uniforms and at campus athletic facilities."
Under Armor is helping destroy the football uniforms. A company that just a few years ago didn't even make football shoe wear. But at Maryland they are going to work on the logos.
While at Nike, Phil Knight just gave them a 37,000 square feet academic support building that cost $41.7 million.
Don't get me wrong, Kevin Plank has money. But he can't or hasn't resolved Maryland's financial problems.
bobbiemcgee
05-09-2011, 01:05 AM
My original post was that Plank has the money, that is all. Could careless about the Nike vs UA scenarios. He can get as involved as he wants to. He has the capacity to write big chex. Whether he wants to or not, I have no idea and don't care.
Miller is in a great position right now at Arizona. He is paid well, he has the new car smell still meaning he can't do too much wrong in the eyes of the fans or administration and finally he can wait out less than premier jobs until one actually does open. When that time comes, Miller will leave to go back East.
Xavier
05-09-2011, 03:22 PM
Why is it in two years Sean was upset with his contract? And why is it that Maryland was a place to worry about, if at the end of the day, the contract which he signed less than two years ago, which was apparently so terribly undervalued, was able to be bumped when Maryland opened up?
What exactly did the coaching staff do to show that in less than two years time they deserved more?
He wasn't upset at his contract- he just saw an opening to get more money. I won't blame a guy to use some leverage to get more money when he can. If you saw that opportunity where you work- would you go for it? Its just a smart move by Sean.
And to the bold- I can't imagine you are too serious here. In just the second year they won the Pac 10, went to the elite 8- played pretty well and had a shot at the final four. Not to mention they have a great recruiting class coming in. AZ really should be paying him and his staff top dollar because all signs point to them being a national powerhouse again pretty soon-- What more could they do in two years to deserve a raise, in your opinion?
smileyy
05-09-2011, 03:37 PM
There was also a 2-year extension that was verbally agreed upon. I believe AZ originally offered Miller a 7-year contract, but the Board of Regents would only approve a 5-year contract. I'm sure he would have gotten the extension anyway, but the Maryland opening certainly made that come to fruition.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 05:49 PM
And to the bold- I can't imagine you are too serious here. In just the second year they won the Pac 10, went to the elite 8- played pretty well and had a shot at the final four. Not to mention they have a great recruiting class coming in. AZ really should be paying him and his staff top dollar because all signs point to them being a national powerhouse again pretty soon-- What more could they do in two years to deserve a raise, in your opinion?
Ummm...isn't Arizona expected to do that? Isn't a place where you can and should win a title? Isn't that the reason he went there in the first place. If he failed to do anything like he accomplished this past season, would Arizona expect him to take a pay cut? Does he not have incentives in his contact to pay him what he accomplished in the first place? And if not, then why in the hell did he sign it.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 05:50 PM
My original post was that Plank has the money, that is all. Could careless about the Nike vs UA scenarios. He can get as involved as he wants to. He has the capacity to write big chex. Whether he wants to or not, I have no idea and don't care.
Well wow, thanks for the insight. Kevin Plank has money for chartered planes. So does half the country. Not sure that means every school can pay what is needed to get their coach. But since you don't really care, I'm sure you have no other follow up.
Xavier
05-09-2011, 06:26 PM
Ummm...isn't Arizona expected to do that? Isn't a place where you can and should win a title? Isn't that the reason he went there in the first place. If he failed to do anything like he accomplished this past season, would Arizona expect him to take a pay cut? Does he not have incentives in his contact to pay him what he accomplished in the first place? And if not, then why in the hell did he sign it.
Ok, so I am glad to see what I expected- nothing he could have done in his first two years would require a pay raise in your eyes. In fact, nothing he can ever do would require that, right? I mean- isn't that pretty much what you are saying. It is AZ, they are expected to win it all and even if he did thats what the incentives are for, right? You make it pretty clear it should be impossible to get a pay raise at AZ. If its not, explain how Sean Miller could get a pay raise. Its a place where you can and should win a title- and doing so would be part of the incentives in your contract so you really shouldn't get a raise because of that. That seemed to be the reason you wouldn't give him one for winning the Pac 10 in year 2 and getting to the elite 8. So- what can he do to get a raise?
Better yet, I would like you to explain how any coach in the country that had incentives in the contract would earn a pay raise.
bobbiemcgee
05-09-2011, 07:28 PM
Maryland has ZERO money. ZERO.
They are not going to be able to pay any of those top guys.
And yet they continue to make offers.......strange. Guess they are going to offer UA gear.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 07:31 PM
Ok, so I am glad to see what I expected- nothing he could have done in his first two years would require a pay raise in your eyes. In fact, nothing he can ever do would require that, right? I mean- isn't that pretty much what you are saying. It is AZ, they are expected to win it all and even if he did thats what the incentives are for, right? You make it pretty clear it should be impossible to get a pay raise at AZ. If its not, explain how Sean Miller could get a pay raise. Its a place where you can and should win a title- and doing so would be part of the incentives in your contract so you really shouldn't get a raise because of that. That seemed to be the reason you wouldn't give him one for winning the Pac 10 in year 2 and getting to the elite 8. So- what can he do to get a raise?
Better yet, I would like you to explain how any coach in the country that had incentives in the contract would earn a pay raise.
Why are you so pissed off? And why are you putting words in my mouth. How does not getting a raise in his first two years automatically mean to you that he should never get a raise. Is it because you are pissed at something?
The year before Sean oversaw the program not making it back to the tournament. Breaking a streak that was 25 years running. That's almost three decades if you are having trouble with the math.
Should Arizona be surprised they won a watered down PAC 10?
What return on their investment was so overwhelming in their first two years with Sean make it seem so unreasonable he shouldn't get a raise. Because basically you are arguing he had one good year. Is that how jobs work...one good year and get a raise? He wouldn't have gotten this thing if the Maryland job wasn't open. Would he have left since he accomplished winning one more game then what the program did the year before he got there?
Go ahead and jump to whatever conclusion you can come up with in your own pissed manner.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 07:33 PM
And yet they continue to make offers.......strange. Guess they are going to offer UA gear.
Did you and Xavier get together and decide to jump conclusions like Maryland somehow isn't going to offer a job to a basketball head coach candidate? Or that they would not fulfill the contract they signed with the school three years ago?
Do you still not care? Or is this the way you demonstrate that?
bobbiemcgee
05-09-2011, 07:36 PM
Do you really think they would offer these guys with ZERO DOLLARS? Hey, Sean, come on down and take a 2 miilion cut. We can't come up with the money right now.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 07:39 PM
My original post was that Plank has the money, that is all. Could careless about the Nike vs UA scenarios. He can get as involved as he wants to. He has the capacity to write big chex. Whether he wants to or not, I have no idea and don't care.
I'm going to go back this post and just point out how completely nonsensical it is. You are making the argument that Plank is a big booster. Well what good is it to have this big booster if he is unwilling to pay? Do you think Maryland only has deep pocketed donors in the athletic program?
Bob Smith and Jospeh Gildenhorn are more then capable of writing big chex to the athletic department. They don't. They do however have their names attached to many buildings on campus. They have practically the same effect on athletics that Kevin Plank seems to have.
So Plank you has a vested interest in the success of the athletic department and yet you don't care if he gives or not. Not sure how that helps the idea that Maryland has no money.
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 07:44 PM
Do you really think they would offer these guys with ZERO DOLLARS? Hey, Sean, come on down and take a 2 miilion cut. We can't come up with the money right now.
I really don't understand your point. Do you think I am saying Maryland is not actually going to pay a head coach even a dollar? Where exactly did I say that?
Why do you say you don't care and yet keep responding with nonsense like this crap post? Are you actually interested in discussing an issue or just telling me Plank has money and Maryland will actually pay someone to coach their team?
Maryland has shown it can't pay a coach it wants due to money. How do you argue that otherwise? They either don't have it, which I have shown time and time again the financial hurdles they currently have, or if they are unwilling, what's the point of trying to say guys have the money? I don't get you.
bobbiemcgee
05-09-2011, 08:05 PM
Nevermind
bobbiemcgee
05-09-2011, 08:15 PM
IMaryland has shown it can't pay a coach it wants due to money. How do you argue that otherwise? .
Why the hell would they totally waste their time talking to these guys and the coaches time if they absolutely don't have the money to pay them? Now that's ridiculous.
"thanks for the interview, coach, but you do realize we don't have the money to pay a top coach, so we'll just fill up the jet with 35,000 in fuel and fly home."
DC Muskie
05-09-2011, 08:47 PM
Why the hell would they totally waste their time talking to these guys and the coaches time if they absolutely don't have the money to pay them? Now that's ridiculous.
"thanks for the interview, coach, but you do realize we don't have the money to pay a top coach, so we'll just fill up the jet with 35,000 in fuel and fly home."
Oh okay then. I'm going to think like you and say Sean Miller told them, "Hey before you fly over here to talk to me, you better have at least $4 million to pay me."
Because that's how this process works.
Maryland banked on the fact their perceived prestige would be the deciding factor. If they were serious about money, why would you fly out there with a serious offer and let Miller walk away?
But I take it you know the inner workings of Maryland's financial situation. You have spoken to people. You know some of the heavy hitters there. So you know exactly how this went down.
That's amazing. Just think how smart you would be if you actually cared about this topic.
BMoreX
05-10-2011, 10:08 AM
Thought you all might enjoy this little quote from Mike DeCourcy:
When Miller rejected the offer, Maryland might have turned to any number of gifted coaches with demonstrated prowess in coaching and recruiting: Shaka Smart of VCU, Chris Mack of Xavier, Mick Cronin of Cincinnati, perhaps Anthony Grant of Alabama, if his interest could be stimulated.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-05-09/turgeon-the-safe-but-not-the-right-hire-for-maryland
bobbiemcgee
05-10-2011, 11:00 AM
The fact that Maryland is supposedly offering Mark Turgeon the job is pretty good evidence that Maryland doesn't have much juice.
Yeah, he is only getting 2.5 million a year or 300,000 - 500,000 more than offered to Mack for the Tenn job.
The fact that Maryland is supposedly offering Mark Turgeon the job is pretty good evidence that Maryland doesn't have much juice.
$2.8 million. Two. Point. Eight. That's what Turgeon is reportedly getting according to local stations. So, yea, we can put this "Maryland can't afford to pay" bullshit to rest. Miller, Wright, et al obviously has reason(s) to stay at their schools, but an inability to pay by Maryland is NOT the reason.
So I'm done with that part of the debate, and would like to shift my focus toward Turgeon. This is not the grand slam hire that Miller would have been and I have my questions. Turgeon seems like a decent coach. Nothing jumps out at you, but you have to wonder how much of that has to do with coaching at a football school in the middle of nowhere, in the same state as other basketball powers. He seems to be a decent recruiter, getting four stars, but can he take the next step in the ACC at a school in the middle of a major hotbed? He should be able to, but we'll see. I feel like A&M kind of overacheived this year, but probably kind of underacheived last year. He's a very clean coach who runs things the right way, so I think that was a major plus in search, as UMD wants to continue to straight program that Gary ran. I'll give the Turgeon the benfit of any doubt going into the next two seasons, but it's hard to think he can step up and be that third rival to Coach K and Roy Williams, like I think Sean would have absolutely been. At least the Terps have a better new caoch than Georgia Tech.
muskiefan82
05-10-2011, 11:20 AM
"Demonstrated prowess in coaching" and "Mick Cronin" should not be used in the same sentence.
bobbiemcgee
05-10-2011, 11:33 AM
Wonder what Sean's contract ext. was for? Oh, yeah, 2.8 a yr.
Why would they pay Turgeon that much? He seems pretty solid, but not $2.8 million solid.
I agree. They must really believe in him and I hope they're right, but that is an expensive price for a relatively smaller name than the others being tossed around. I guess Maryland just has more money than it knows what to do with?
bobbiemcgee
05-10-2011, 11:48 AM
"It was just too good an offer for me to pass on," Turgeon said in a release." no kidding.
DC Muskie
05-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Looks like Maryland is paying Turgeon what they paid Gary Williams. That's double what he made at Texas A&M. Pretty good move by Turgeon.
Not sure what they offered Sean, but if it came down to money, then Maryland is pretty stupid in my opinion. If at the end of the day all Sean got was an $800,000 raise, then there is something else going on. Because if you think Maryland had the money to pay Sean, they decided not to do it.
If they walked into this situation saying they were going to pay their next coach the same they were paying Gery Williams, then Maryland succeeded.
smileyy
05-10-2011, 01:32 PM
Or, you figure that all Sean Miller needed was a firm offer from Maryland to get what he wanted from AZ. Didn't matter the dollar amount.
DC Muskie
05-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Or, you figure that all Sean Miller needed was a firm offer from Maryland to get what he wanted from AZ. Didn't matter the dollar amount.
Very true. There are some Maryland fans that are pissed off by this possible notion. Which to me is funny since when the whole, "let's buy Gary out" plan was made public, Sean was mentioned as a replacement.
That then leads some fans to speculate that Sean knew he had Maryland in his pocket that could be used at least twice. Once if Gary left if he was still at Xavier and got paid at worst, or at best, could use it as leverage when Gary left and he was at any other job to get a raise.
bobbiemcgee
05-10-2011, 02:03 PM
Chump change will put in him Top 5:
http://www.therichest.org/sports/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/
Fred Garvin 2.0
05-11-2011, 03:50 AM
This Turgeon ran a clean program on all accounts. And we are certain nothing is gonna turn up with improprieties re: Williams regime? Seems odd they giving him that much.
Or, you figure that all Sean Miller needed was a firm offer from Maryland to get what he wanted from AZ. Didn't matter the dollar amount.
Very true. There are some Maryland fans that are pissed off by this possible notion. Which to me is funny since when the whole, "let's buy Gary out" plan was made public, Sean was mentioned as a replacement.
That then leads some fans to speculate that Sean knew he had Maryland in his pocket that could be used at least twice. Once if Gary left if he was still at Xavier and got paid at worst, or at best, could use it as leverage when Gary left and he was at any other job to get a raise.
Hopefully this quote from Miller can help clarify what should have been clear the whole time - that Miller WAS interested in hearing about the Maryland job.
"You may be surprised, especially because I'm someone who left east to go west, that people will once in a while reach out, almost check and see where you stand. There are a lot of those opportunities that happen that never come out. This one did, because I at least considered it."
Miller considered coming to Maryland, and Maryland would have made the hire, and paid him what it would've taken if he had told them yes. Miller decided he wanted to stay at Arizona, for whatever personal/profeesional reasons he had, and Byrne extended his contract. That is what happened. He didn't go to Vegas with zero intention of seriously courting a Maryland offer only to use it as leverage agaisnt his AD at Zona, and he didn't go in with the full intention of coming to Maryland only to not get a lucrative enough offer. He considered the job and then decided to stay. Maryland wanted him and would have paid him. Chapter closed.
DC Muskie
05-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Hopefully this quote from Miller can help clarify what should have been clear the whole time - that Miller WAS interested in hearing about the Maryland job.
"You may be surprised, especially because I'm someone who left east to go west, that people will once in a while reach out, almost check and see where you stand. There are a lot of those opportunities that happen that never come out. This one did, because I at least considered it."
Miller considered coming to Maryland, and Maryland would have made the hire, and paid him what it would've taken if he had told them yes. Miller decided he wanted to stay at Arizona, for whatever personal/profeesional reasons he had, and Byrne extended his contract. That is what happened. He didn't go to Vegas with zero intention of seriously courting a Maryland offer only to use it as leverage agaisnt his AD at Zona, and he didn't go in with the full intention of coming to Maryland only to not get a lucrative enough offer. He considered the job and then decided to stay. Maryland wanted him and would have paid him. Chapter closed.
Wow, that was simple. Glad Sean cleared it up. And he made it sound so nice too. Happy to see everyone wins.
I knew there were going to be some here who assume that his word means nothing, which is why I said that hoperfully it would HELP clarify. Even though everything that has happened over the last week clearly suggest that he was interested in the job, then he meets to discuss the job, then he says he didn't take the job, but was interested enough in the job to talk about it, I know there are still going to be those who think that every move Miller makes in life has some extra greedy or evil motivation behind it. Common logic stands no chance against the dispositions that some hold against Miller around here. Those who think Miller had no interest in the Maryland job are believing what they want, or they just don't care enough to learn the details of the situation.
GoMuskies
05-11-2011, 05:00 PM
I assume pretty much everyone does most of what they do out of greed. Not just Herr Miller.
I don't find your "logic" any more compelling than the "logic" that Sean was simply using the opportunity to get a raise. What do you suppose his quote to the media would have been if he WAS simply using Maryland to get more money from Arizona? "Damn, I really fooled those stupid turtles, amirite? (cough)"
bobbiemcgee
05-11-2011, 05:32 PM
Wasn't that original. He just pulled a "Matt Painter". Livengood made some verbal promises that Byrne wasn't following up on quick enough as he was more concerned with football. Sean got him to "refocus". Well played.
Byrne's announcement that Sean would stay was directed at the Zona internet websites that were calling for his dismissal if he lost Sean. Byrne must have mistakenly thought initially that MD didn't have the money to pay Sean. Almost a huge mistake.
I assume pretty much everyone does most of what they do out of greed. Not just Herr Miller.
I don't find your "logic" any more compelling than the "logic" that Sean was simply using the opportunity to get a raise. What do you suppose his quote to the media would have been if he WAS simply using Maryland to get more money from Arizona? "Damn, I really fooled those stupid turtles, amirite? (cough)"
You don't? Then why didn't Sean use NC state to strong-arm his AD? That job opened a month ago, is somehwere where Miller has coached before, is in the ACC and could pay a shitload. If Miller was so set on using an opening to his advantage, why didn't he do it a month ago? It's not like anyone, even those close to UMD, knew that gary was going to retire at the odd time of early May. Your theory does not add up, and the "logic" is not there.
We're supposed to believe that Sean Miller has been waiting for an opportunity to use another job opening as a way to renegotiate his contract at Arizona, got that opportunity but didn't take it, then one month later got that opportunity again, and this time flew to Vegas to meet with Anderson and Plank, trick them into thinking he was interested in the job, and then get Byrnes attention and his own extension? That's entirely illogical.
You know what's not illogical? NC State opens up and Miller isn't interested in the job, thus doesn't pretend to be interested in the job, then one month later, a job that he is interested in opens up, he talks to the AD and booster of said job, decides ultimately that he's rather stay at his current job, and a shitty AD who's scared he may be close to losing one of the best coaches in America sweetens up his contract.
Look at the signs. Short of some major consipracy, the belief in which I wouldn't put past some on this board, there's no logical evidence to back the theory that Miller never had interest in UMD and was only using the job as a tact to enhance his current contract. It's not by any means crazy to think that Sean wanted a better contract from Arizona if he were to stay, but it is crazy to think he never had any real interest in Maryland when all other words and actions of those involved in both parties would suggest the exact opposite.
jco17
05-11-2011, 06:36 PM
It's also possible that Miller was going to listen to any offer to use as leverage with Arizona.
Ding, Ding, Dind, we have a winner. Our AD was Fing Sean around and he showed them who was really in charge of the situation. The fans at Arizona (myself included) made sure Byrne knew that Miller was WAY more important to the rest of us than he or anybody else was for that matter. I give money to Arizona and that ish would stop if Byrne had let Miller go, believe me. A lot of other boosters felt the exact same way and we were very vocal about it. Now I'm not a major booster, but if Sean had not gotten what he had asked for, Xavier would be getting my money.
I love this site, I think the people that run it are first class, and I will very shortly be a paying member. Absolutely stoked that Tu is coming back!!!!!
jco17
05-11-2011, 06:38 PM
PMI, the people I have talked to about this, and I'm not sure how correct they are, the biggest thing they have told me is...they don't have the money to pay for whomever they want. Especially when you are talking about bringing in a head coach from another school at this late date.
And I think that has been proven to be true.
Everybody seems to bring Plank into the discussion. Meaning, if Kevin Plank is on board with the hire, a couple million dollars thrown at whatever coach, that coach would come.
Well, last year Oregon was looking for a basketball coach. It has Nike money behind it. They ended up with the Creighton coach. Now Oregon is not a basketball powerhouse by any means, but there should have been leverage for a coach to get paid. But no hot coach would go near that job.
Maryland is a much better basketball school then Oregon. But you can't look at this as a basketball hire and forget everything else. Maryland needs revenue. Maryland competes at such a high level on other sports. Take lacrosse. They hired Cornell's coach. That takes some money. Their women's sports are top notch. They are paid very well.
To say that Leach's non hiring has nothing to do this with is beyond short sighted. And if the Maryland people you are talking to, then they need to talk to the Maryland people I'm talking to. The greatest revenue you can generate in college sports is football. Maryland is not going to hire Saban. I'm not suggesting that. But they needed to hire someone that has the appearance that it was a bigger name than Frigden. They failed on that front. They are not going to sell more tickets, or luxury suites with Edsall as the coach. Now if he does well, they have the potential to have those suites paid for. If they hire a good basketball coach, people are going to want season tickets. In order to do that, they need to buy football season tickets. That's just the way it is at Maryland.
Let's take a realistic look view at Under Armor. Since Maryland went to Under Armor exclusively, they have been on a downward trend in football and basketball. Look at football, beyond Auburn, where is the success that Under Armor is experiencing? Where is it in basketball? Sean Miller is a Nike Guy. Nike is able to pay Miller $400K or so in compensation beyond his contract with Arizona. Where is Under Armor's money to at least match that, let alone go beyond? If Plank is able to pay that, then why didn't he? If it's because he wasn't willing, then why wasn't he? If you are able to see the benefit of that investment, which I agree with you, then why didn't he? Sean Miller would have been the face of Under Armor basketball. Where is the money to back up that face?
Like I stated before, if there is money to pay a coach, then why in the world would they pursue Miller if that the end the day they weren't willing to pay what he expected? If they thought the prestige of Maryland would bring them in, then there are some stupid people running Maryland.
I hope they hire a great coach. But if that coach isn't at least looked at as being "overpaid" then the idea that Maryland boosters can set up to the plate is to me, flat out wrong. If Plank is thought of as an asset, and you have to assume he is a smart business guy, giving Miller an additional $1million outside a contract should have been able. If $1 million extra is nothing to Plank's pocket, then I would agree Maryland can pay anyone it wants. But if he doesn't pay, then how can you argue they have it. Other than the argument you have made that they are unwilling to pay.
Kevin Anderson is not that dumb. At least I hope not. If this list of head coaches who would be interest in this job is true, than it's his job to line up the money. If they are able to land Stevens, I will be shocked. I seriously doubt Maryland will be willing to pay him what he wanted when Sean Miller was there for the taking.
As I have mentioned before, Anderson has brought people in to help with athletic fundraising. He understands how woefully under performing Maryland is in that aspect. In my experience with fundraising, most donors want to be a apart of a team. No one gives money to losing ventures. And Maryland is not exactly a winning proposal right now. Plank and Trashy Ravens Owner and people like Raul Fernandez, who in my experience of working with keeps his money crammed up his tight ass, are not going to dole it out if no one else is on board. And if they are unwilling to dole it for Sean Miller, then they get what they deserve.
I'm with you in thinking the way this search has gone is disappointing. But there are serious money problems at Maryland. And so far this process has proved that. I'd be surprised if at a later date something else is directing the train.
DC, I'm making a point to make sure I get to an X game this year and you are getting a couple beers on me. I may even buy your ticket to the game boss.
jco17
05-11-2011, 07:10 PM
Wasn't that original. He just pulled a "Matt Painter". Livengood made some verbal promises that Byrne wasn't following up on quick enough as he was more concerned with football. Sean got him to "refocus". Well played.
Byrne's announcement that Sean would stay was directed at the Zona internet websites that were calling for his dismissal if he lost Sean. Byrne must have mistakenly thought initially that MD didn't have the money to pay Sean. Almost a huge mistake.
Yep. There were some things that Byrne actually didn't follow through on as well, which included some performance bonuses that Sean had to actually bring to Byrne's attention personally. Bad juju. Sean was rightfully irritated with some of the things going on and the fan base spoke up about it. Sean Miller will be taken care of, or Greg Byrne will have his ass handed to him. Plain and simple.
DC Muskie
05-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Sean's a hell of a coach. And people get pissed off because Sean is a hell of coach. No one would be pissed at me if I did these things, because I would be a horrible coach. No where close to hell.
I got to say though when Sean left to go to Arizona, he was all about championships. That was his words, not anyone else. Money was never mention. But everyone understood, because we were talking about his life and it's a business.
Now there's speculation, that this move with talking with Maryland wasn't really about money, even though everyone understands that money is the underlining topic. It is important and it should be. But now, again, you can't bring it up.
Arizona wasn't any further away from winning a championship a month ago then it was last week. None of the issues that Sean was pissed off about would be resolved until there was a job opened that would threaten his tenure at Arizona however short. And then one did. And that's all it took. And the issues that he was pissed off about, were all resolved by money. Nothing else. He wasn't going to get up one day turn to Amy and say, "Screw this. Promises have not been fulfilled. Pack the kids up we're moving back east and I'm going to coach AAU ball."
The suggestion that if he was motivated for money play he would have put himself into play at NC State, is just downright silly. His buddy Calipari stayed away. NC State ran out his former boss. They have Debbie Yow. They have won one championship in 1983 by a guy who still claims his air ball was a pass. That logic makes their fans look reasonable.
Let's say that Sean did put himself into play at NC State. If I was the AD at Zona, I'd say, go ahead and best of luck. Zona would have gone out and gotten a great coach.
I'm certainly not pissed at Sean. I still believe Maryland was unable to pay him what he needed to be paid to move and rebuild the Terps. But if he was really interested in Maryland and for whatever reason decided to stay, it certainly was resolved by money. And that always pisses me off about people. Not that they get paid, but they refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
I revisited this thread because I thought about it after hearing of Mark Lyons' commitment to Sean Miller and Arizona. It's interesting to read this again a year later, knowing infinitely more firsthand about this situation now than I did then. It's funny reading the Arizona fans who thought Miller was just using a negotiating tactic and really had no interest in Maryland. Or the real killer, that Maryland couldn't afford Miller. (Trust me, my boy Turgeon is living well.) Fans will always believe what is most convenient for them, and who can blame them?
The one thing I was dead wrong about in this discussion was Mark Turgeon. I was skeptical of him because he wasn't as big a name in my mind as Sean or Dixon, etc. I now know firsthand how great a coach he is. Maryland is going nowhere but up under his leadership. He felt like he was never truly embraced by the fans at A&M (a football school obviously) and no matter what he did down there, he was always going to be criticized. His first season was a very difficult one on the court for so many reasons, but from every other standpoint, he feels 100% more comfortable and he's really happy. I think he's going to be a force in the ACC for a long time.
Going back to Miller, there was another reason that he and Kevin Anderson shook hands and headed separate ways after their meeting in Vegas, and it had absolutely nothing to do with money, or either party's lack of interest in each other. At the end of the day, it's a good thing for both sides that they went in other directions and both Maryland and Arizona should be in great shape for the future. While both are good jobs, Maryland > Arizona in so many regards, such as recruiting, conference affiliation, exposure, market, and fans.
paulxu
05-06-2012, 05:45 PM
The thing though is AZ is the only game in town. At Maryland you've got Georgetown in your back yard.
The thing though is AZ is the only game in town. At Maryland you've got Georgetown in your back yard.
That argument can be made for just about any east vs. west program. UNC has Duke in its backyard. There are lots more good programs in the east and midwest and they're all closer to each other. In the west, there are fewer (AKA hardly any) good programs and they're all spread way apart. That can't be denied, but it hasn't seemed to hurt any of the traditional blue bloods over the years. For what it's worth, Georgetown's ceiling is nowhere near as high as Maryland's.
It's kind of like the argument that Maryland can only be the third best program in the ACC, whereas Arizona can be the top or second program in the Pac12. First off, it's spent years as a top 2 program in the conference before, but also, if you're third to Duke and UNC, are you supposed to be compared to the third program in the Pac12? That's insane. I'd say the third program in the Pac12 would be more on par with the third program in the A10, but that's neither here nor there.
DC Muskie
05-06-2012, 09:46 PM
I revisited this thread because I thought about it after hearing of Mark Lyons' commitment to Sean Miller and Arizona. It's interesting to read this again a year later, knowing infinitely more firsthand about this situation now than I did then. It's funny reading the Arizona fans who thought Miller was just using a negotiating tactic and really had no interest in Maryland. Or the real killer, that Maryland couldn't afford Miller. (Trust me, my boy Turgeon is living well.) Fans will always believe what is most convenient for them, and who can blame them?
The one thing I was dead wrong about in this discussion was Mark Turgeon. I was skeptical of him because he wasn't as big a name in my mind as Sean or Dixon, etc. I now know firsthand how great a coach he is. Maryland is going nowhere but up under his leadership. He felt like he was never truly embraced by the fans at A&M (a football school obviously) and no matter what he did down there, he was always going to be criticized. His first season was a very difficult one on the court for so many reasons, but from every other standpoint, he feels 100% more comfortable and he's really happy. I think he's going to be a force in the ACC for a long time.
Going back to Miller, there was another reason that he and Kevin Anderson shook hands and headed separate ways after their meeting in Vegas, and it had absolutely nothing to do with money, or either party's lack of interest in each other. At the end of the day, it's a good thing for both sides that they went in other directions and both Maryland and Arizona should be in great shape for the future. While both are good jobs, Maryland > Arizona in so many regards, such as recruiting, conference affiliation, exposure, market, and fans.
Interesting to say the least.
Maryland has some serious problems in their athletic department. To say they are bleeding money is to put it nicely.
Miller was making $2 million at AZ when he spoke to Maryland. Anderson knew he couldn't pay Sean what he was making at AZ to come over. Sean also had to know the major rebuilding project that would have to be done at Maryland. Attendance has been down 31% over the past six seasons and the basketball program has decreased in profits by 36% over that time.
That doesn't include the fiasco that is the football program and the money they are losing by not renting out their luxury suites.
Even if Kevin Anderson himself told me money wasn't the issue, to suggest that it didn't play a role in their talks would make their discussion the most absurd waste of time in the history of two people talking about a job.
Money never seems to be a problem when discussing Maryland's coaches. The school is able to pay four guys over around $8 million dollars but is incapable of covering the operating costs of women's water polo and men's tennis, which combined totals the same amount.
I get that Anderson can't come out and say, "We have to cut some sports simply because of the economy and both our major men's programs are in the crapper right now," but you don't need to be a math magician to figure it out.
If they want to bring the basketball program up, they cannot skimp on paying a good coach. But they also realistically can't go out and sign whomever they want, for whatever they want. Maryland is not Ohio State.
I like Turgeon and think he will do a great job. He has a huge hole to dig himself out of though and if he thinks the criticism at College Station was bad, well it's going to be ten times worse at College Park. I think he can and will get it done at Maryland.
DC Muskie
05-06-2012, 09:53 PM
The thing though is AZ is the only game in town. At Maryland you've got Georgetown in your back yard.
There is absolutely no cross over in markets when it comes to Baltimore and Georgetown.
Maryland is playing hard ball with GTown regarding the reviving the basketball series in this town. In a move that I actually completely agree with, Maryland has stopped playing GTown in all other sports until they agree to a series in basketball.
Maryland knows it has a serious attendance problem. Getting a home and home with the Hoyas would be huge in building that back up. I believe they are leveraging the fact that GTown is one football conference shakeup away from having their Olympic sports become also-rans. Teprs and Hoyas not playing lacrosse? Hurts GTown way more then Maryland. Especially now that Syracuse will be in the ACC. GTown is going to need to recruit players in other sports and have good non conference games to sell them on. If Maryland can help its basketball attendance by forcing GTown's hand...then so be it.
I'll be very interested if it works.
Interesting to say the least.
Maryland has some serious problems in their athletic department. To say they are bleeding money is to put it nicely.
Miller was making $2 million at AZ when he spoke to Maryland. Anderson knew he couldn't pay Sean what he was making at AZ to come over. Sean also had to know the major rebuilding project that would have to be done at Maryland. Attendance has been down 31% over the past six seasons and the basketball program has decreased in profits by 36% over that time.
That doesn't include the fiasco that is the football program and the money they are losing by not renting out their luxury suites.
Even if Kevin Anderson himself told me money wasn't the issue, to suggest that it didn't play a role in their talks would make their discussion the most absurd waste of time in the history of two people talking about a job.
Money never seems to be a problem when discussing Maryland's coaches. The school is able to pay four guys over around $8 million dollars but is incapable of covering the operating costs of women's water polo and men's tennis, which combined totals the same amount.
I get that Anderson can't come out and say, "We have to cut some sports simply because of the economy and both our major men's programs are in the crapper right now," but you don't need to be a math magician to figure it out.
If they want to bring the basketball program up, they cannot skimp on paying a good coach. But they also realistically can't go out and sign whomever they want, for whatever they want. Maryland is not Ohio State.
I like Turgeon and think he will do a great job. He has a huge hole to dig himself out of though and if he thinks the criticism at College Station was bad, well it's going to be ten times worse at College Park. I think he can and will get it done at Maryland.
Sorry DC, I know you've had your money theory and I'm not going to naively think I will change your mind, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that paying Sean Miller was never Maryland's issue. A completely different issue did come up that caused the parties to part ways. Turgeon makes $400,000 less than Sean does per year right now, and you can be sure he'll be getting a raise in the next year or two. Not only could Anderson pay Miller what he was getting at Arizona; he is paying damn near that exact amount to Turgeon in his first season. Mathematical magic aside, money was not the reason.
Edsall has been a disaster so far without question. Still, he's the fifth highest paid coach in the conference and makes $2 million a year. I'm not going to say the University of Maryland doesn't have its financial issues, but by no means does the athletic department have issues as severe as you make it out to be.
Also, for Turgeon at A&M, it wasn't so much the criticism that was bad as much as it was the lack of care and support. The criticism does't bother him, but he didn't appreciate how unresponsive people were to his program and how they never seemed to really embrace him personally either.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 06:15 AM
Yeah PMI I can see that Maryland was going to pony up, but there has to be a ceiling. Just because I can afford a car, say like a fully loaded Lexus, doesn't mean I can "afford" it. I mean if I can't buy food, or pay rent, doesn't mean that money isn't an issue, because I have a sweet car.
After they signed Turgeon Maryland then announced they will eliminate 8 other sports. They don't do that without serious money problems.
No one is going to football games. No one is going to basketball games. The profits have been way down. So the terps are throwing all the money they have into their coaching basket and hoping they can pull their numbers up. I can understand that.
But whatever, Turgeon is there and I think it's a good choice. I just hope people here have patience, because Terp fans are idiots.
There is absolutely no cross over in markets when it comes to Baltimore and Georgetown.
Maryland is playing hard ball with GTown regarding the reviving the basketball series in this town. In a move that I actually completely agree with, Maryland has stopped playing GTown in all other sports until they agree to a series in basketball.
Maryland knows it has a serious attendance problem. Getting a home and home with the Hoyas would be huge in building that back up. I believe they are leveraging the fact that GTown is one football conference shakeup away from having their Olympic sports become also-rans. Teprs and Hoyas not playing lacrosse? Hurts GTown way more then Maryland. Especially now that Syracuse will be in the ACC. GTown is going to need to recruit players in other sports and have good non conference games to sell them on. If Maryland can help its basketball attendance by forcing GTown's hand...then so be it.
I'll be very interested if it works.
It will never work. GTown will never play at Comcast.
Maryland is much more desperate for the home basketball game than GTown will ever be to get Maryland to play them in lacrosse or girls field hockey or whatever other sport Maryland doesn't want to play them in.
xubrew
05-07-2012, 09:53 AM
There is absolutely no cross over in markets when it comes to Baltimore and Georgetown.
Maryland is playing hard ball with GTown regarding the reviving the basketball series in this town. In a move that I actually completely agree with, Maryland has stopped playing GTown in all other sports until they agree to a series in basketball.
Maryland knows it has a serious attendance problem. Getting a home and home with the Hoyas would be huge in building that back up. I believe they are leveraging the fact that GTown is one football conference shakeup away from having their Olympic sports become also-rans. Teprs and Hoyas not playing lacrosse? Hurts GTown way more then Maryland. Especially now that Syracuse will be in the ACC. GTown is going to need to recruit players in other sports and have good non conference games to sell them on. If Maryland can help its basketball attendance by forcing GTown's hand...then so be it.
I'll be very interested if it works.
I'm familiar with this feud to the extent that I'm familiar that there is a feud, but I don't know the specifics. This is my understanding of it. Some of my facts may be off....
The two used to play home and home, but for some reason the two met twice during the season sometime back in the early 1990s. I think they played the game that was scheduled, but played again in an exempt tournament. It would sort of be like XU and UC playing the shootout, but also playing in the preseason NIT. This set off a shitstorm over who's turn it was to play at home the following year. Twenty years later, they're still fighting, and now Maryland is threatening to not play Georgetown in anything unless they come to Maryland for a basketball game and resume the OOC home and home series.
So, how right am I??
Yeah PMI I can see that Maryland was going to pony up, but there has to be a ceiling. Just because I can afford a car, say like a fully loaded Lexus, doesn't mean I can "afford" it. I mean if I can't buy food, or pay rent, doesn't mean that money isn't an issue, because I have a sweet car.
After they signed Turgeon Maryland then announced they will eliminate 8 other sports. They don't do that without serious money problems.
No one is going to football games. No one is going to basketball games. The profits have been way down. So the terps are throwing all the money they have into their coaching basket and hoping they can pull their numbers up. I can understand that.
But whatever, Turgeon is there and I think it's a good choice. I just hope people here have patience, because Terp fans are idiots.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it's the ponying up that really matters anyway. You know that once Maryland gets back to being a top 25 program, the Comcast Center is going to have no problem selling seats and the program will be making money. This is an investment and it's one that will pay off. Maryland fans love Turgeon and he will have more than enough time to build his ship, not that he'll need too much.
As for football, that is a different story. A little secret, nobody at Maryland likes Randy Edsall. They think he's an asshole and his military approach led to two wins and 26 transfers so far. The athletic department is already very worried that they made a big mistake on that one. Maybe he'll right the ship, but I won't hold my breath.
But Maryland is a basketball school, and basketball is going to have no problem generating money when it returns to its place in the upper echelon of college basketball.
As for the cut sports, that was obviously a financial decision, but the reason the number was as high as it was was also because of Title IX. Like I said, Maryland's athletic department's financial issues exist, but it's not a sinking ship.
It will never work. GTown will never play at Comcast.
Maryland is much more desperate for the home basketball game than GTown will ever be to get Maryland to play them in lacrosse or girls field hockey or whatever other sport Maryland doesn't want to play them in.
Maryland is not desperate to play Georgetown. That is silly. They want the series to continue but it's no skin off their ass at all if it doesn't. Actually, I would say that Georgetown will be more desperate to play Maryland in lacrosse than Maryland will be to play Georgetown in basketball. Maryland's lacrosse program is a clear step above Georgetown's and both schools care a lot about that sport, even if you want to lump it with girl's field hockey (which by the way Maryland won the national championship in last year.) Maryland basketball will never have any problem coming up with a great schedule and will never be reliant on Georgetown for a thing.
I'm familiar with this feud to the extent that I'm familiar that there is a feud, but I don't know the specifics. This is my understanding of it. Some of my facts may be off....
The two used to play home and home, but for some reason the two met twice during the season sometime back in the early 1990s. I think they played the game that was scheduled, but played again in an exempt tournament. It would sort of be like XU and UC playing the shootout, but also playing in the preseason NIT. This set off a shitstorm over who's turn it was to play at home the following year. Twenty years later, they're still fighting, and now Maryland is threatening to not play Georgetown in anything unless they come to Maryland for a basketball game and resume the OOC home and home series.
So, how right am I??
They had a regular season game in 93 at USAir arena that was GTown's home court at the time. The game was structured as a neutral game with split tickets/revenues. MD claimed that it was a GTown hame game and wanted the next game at College Park. GTown disagreed and there has been an impasse ever since.
MD wants to restart the game as a home and home. GTown wants annual neutral site games at Verizon. The problem is that Verizon is GTown's home court and MD thinks its unfair to have "neutral" games there. But GTown doesn't want to play at MD where the crowd will be 95% MD fans and then play a "home" game at Verizon that would be about 70% MD fans. MD alums in DC outnumber GTown alums by about 30 to 1.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 10:30 AM
It will never work. GTown will never play at Comcast.
Maryland is much more desperate for the home basketball game than GTown will ever be to get Maryland to play them in lacrosse or girls field hockey or whatever other sport Maryland doesn't want to play them in.
Maryland would love to jump start their attendance problems for sure.
But to suggest that Georgetown doesn't need Maryland for other sports is silly. They can't simply ignore the huge state school just across the beltway because they don't want to go to Comcast to play one game.
I'm familiar with this feud to the extent that I'm familiar that there is a feud, but I don't know the specifics. This is my understanding of it. Some of my facts may be off....
The two used to play home and home, but for some reason the two met twice during the season sometime back in the early 1990s. I think they played the game that was scheduled, but played again in an exempt tournament. It would sort of be like XU and UC playing the shootout, but also playing in the preseason NIT. This set off a shitstorm over who's turn it was to play at home the following year. Twenty years later, they're still fighting, and now Maryland is threatening to not play Georgetown in anything unless they come to Maryland for a basketball game and resume the OOC home and home series.
So, how right am I??
Gary Williams claims the series should not continue since Maryland played the Hoyas in the US Airways Centre, of whatever it was called but in the day, and GTown has yet to return to the Comcast.
Now that Gary has left, Maryland is using this new tacit. Doubt it will work, but it is cool..
I understand what you're saying, but I think it's the ponying up that really matters anyway. You know that once Maryland gets back to being a top 25 program, the Comcast Center is going to have no problem selling seats and the program will be making money. This is an investment and it's one that will pay off. Maryland fans love Turgeon and he will have more than enough time to build his ship, not that he'll need too much.
As for football, that is a different story. A little secret, nobody at Maryland likes Randy Edsall. They think he's an asshole and his military approach led to two wins and 26 transfers so far. The athletic department is already very worried that they made a big mistake on that one. Maybe he'll right the ship, but I won't hold my breath.
But Maryland is a basketball school, and basketball is going to have no problem generating money when it returns to its place in the upper echelon of college basketball.
As for the cut sports, that was obviously a financial decision, but the reason the number was as high as it was was also because of Title IX. Like I said, Maryland's athletic department's financial issues exist, but it's not a sinking ship.
Completely agree with the idea once the Terps start winning basketball games the place will start to fill up again.
And Edsall is a moron. But good for him hiring Lockery (?) to recruit kids form the area.
But please, don't use Title IX as an excuse of why teams got axed. It's not a sinking ship, but it is not an example of financial health by any stretch. A few more 2-9 football years and a few non NCAA dance appearances, the ship will be a little leaky.
But I'm not suggesting Turgeon will miss out on many trips.
The Terps will rue the day they did not hire Mike Leach. RUE!
Maryland is not desperate to play Georgetown. That is silly. They want the series to continue but it's no skin off their ass at all if it doesn't. Actually, I would say that Georgetown will be more desperate to play Maryland in lacrosse than Maryland will be to play Georgetown in basketball. Maryland's lacrosse program is a clear step above Georgetown's and both schools care a lot about that sport, even if you want to lump it with girl's field hockey (which by the way Maryland won the national championship in last year.) Maryland basketball will never have any problem coming up with a great schedule and will never be reliant on Georgetown for a thing.
If they are not desparate, then why did MD's AD have to run with his new scheduling policy to the Washington Post.
MD's athletic department is bleeding money and needs to increase basketball season tickets because there is no indication that the football team will ever do anything other than lose money. They need to the GTown game at Comcast to help sell tickets.
And scheduling lacross games will never influence anyone's decision on this. In terms of university priorities, the success of GTown lacross is about priority number 1,000.
xubrew
05-07-2012, 10:35 AM
They had a regular season game in 93 at USAir arena that was GTown's home court at the time. The game was structured as a neutral game with split tickets/revenues. MD claimed that it was a GTown hame game and wanted the next game at College Park. GTown disagreed and there has been an impasse ever since.
MD wants to restart the game as a home and home. GTown wants annual neutral site games at Verizon. The problem is that Verizon is GTown's home court and MD thinks its unfair to have "neutral" games there. But GTown doesn't want to play at MD where the crowd will be 95% MD fans and then play a "home" game at Verizon that would be about 70% MD fans. MD alums in DC outnumber GTown alums by about 30 to 1.
Thank you. Wanted to rep you, but can't. The man is keeping me down.
Strictly from a revenue and administrative standpoint, if they split the tickets in 1993, then I have to agree with Georgetown. It was their home court, but it was a neutral arena. If Georgetown gave up half the tickets, and presumably half the revenue, you can't count that as a true home game for them. I see Maryland's point, but you can't take half of Georgetown's paycheck for the game at US Cellular, and keep the entire paycheck for the game at College Park, and call that fair.
Having said that, it was twenty freakin' years ago. Since the Verizon Center isn't truly a neutral ground, a H&H makes sense. There are players on both teams that weren't even born in 1993. Just resume the series.
The Terps will rue the day they did not hire Mike Leach. RUE!
I think hiring Leach would've been a nice short term fix but I'm glad they did not do it. It would've ended in controversy if he stayed around long enough. The guy has a very bizarre personality and a lot of people at Maryland did not care for him. It would have made for some exciting years on the field, no doubt, but selling out for Mike Leach would've ended badly I think.
If they are not desparate, then why did MD's AD have to run with his new scheduling policy to the Washington Post.
MD's athletic department is bleeding money and needs to increase basketball season tickets because there is no indication that the football team will ever do anything other than lose money. They need to the GTown game at Comcast to help sell tickets.
And scheduling lacross games will never influence anyone's decision on this. In terms of university priorities, the success of GTown lacross is about priority number 1,000.
Because look at where Maryland's program was at when that happened. It was in purgatory. Just watch over the next couple of years. Maryland's schedule is the least of its worries and the seats will sell when the team is good again. The notion that Maryland needs Georgetown is ludicrous. Sure, they'd like it. It'd be a good game and good local rivalry. But Maryland can schedule other major programs, and plays in the ACC. Maryland will never, ever need Georgetown. It's the other way around if anything.
And I'm not saying lacrosse will influence this particular topic. Maybe nothing will. But both schools do care about their lacrosse programs. Not nearly as much as basketball, but if you think Georgetown doesn't wish it was playing Maryland in lacrosse you are kidding yourself.
By the way, I don't believe the Capital Centre was renamed USAir until 1995 or 1996, even though USAir bought it around 1993. I could be off on that, but I definitely remember going there when it was called Capital Centre and I was only 7 in 1993. I saw a lot of good hockey and basketball at that place.
Because look at where Maryland's program was at when that happened. It was in purgatory. Just watch over the next couple of years. Maryland's schedule is the least of its worries and the seats will sell when the team is good again. The notion that Maryland needs Georgetown is ludicrous. Sure, they'd like it. It'd be a good game and good local rivalry. But Maryland can schedule other major programs, and plays in the ACC. Maryland will never, ever need Georgetown. It's the other way around if anything.
So why play hardball? And why be so public about it?
The bottom line is that the game isn't a big deal to GTown. MD is not a rival. Only a small fraction of GTown students are from the DC area and only a small fraction stay in DC after they graduate. GTown doesn't have any issues scheduling OOC games and there is nobody on the GTown side screaming about playing this game.
xubrew
05-07-2012, 11:24 AM
I would love to see Maryland play Georgetown. Neither school needs it, but not needing soemthing is not the same thing as not having something to gain. Neither needs it, but both have a ton to gain.
I couldn't possibly have less to do with either school, yet I'm still someone who would love it if they played....if that tells you anything.
So why play hardball? And why be so public about it?
The bottom line is that the game isn't a big deal to GTown. MD is not a rival. Only a small fraction of GTown students are from the DC area and only a small fraction stay in DC after they graduate. GTown doesn't have any issues scheduling OOC games and there is nobody on the GTown side screaming about playing this game.
I'm not arguing that. There's nobody on either side screaming to play the game except for fans of both sides (there are.) You are basing this off one article where Maryland's AD expressed interest in re-starting what would be a great local series. You try and spin that as Maryland being desperate for the game and Georgetown being above needing to entertain the idea. That is painting a completely inaccurate picture.
It is what it is. A lot of fans on both sides would like to see the game played. That I can say from plenty of experience with both. As for the administrations themselves, neither side is willing to budge to make it happen, so it obviously isn't a top priority for either. It's incredibly inaccurate to make this out to be a situation where Georgetown is the only side that could care less while Maryland is dying to have the game played. Maryland by NO MEANS needs this game more than Georgetown. If they did, they'd agree to play at Verizon and still have the large majority of fan support.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 01:28 PM
Maryland has zero to lose with this current proposal and only makes GTown look bad.
Both sides would benefit having a relationship with each other. It's sports, not Korea.
I'm not arguing that. There's nobody on either side screaming to play the game except for fans of both sides (there are.) You are basing this off one article where Maryland's AD expressed interest in re-starting what would be a great local series. You try and spin that as Maryland being desperate for the game and Georgetown being above needing to entertain the idea. That is painting a completely inaccurate picture.
It is what it is. A lot of fans on both sides would like to see the game played. That I can say from plenty of experience with both. As for the administrations themselves, neither side is willing to budge to make it happen, so it obviously isn't a top priority for either. It's incredibly inaccurate to make this out to be a situation where Georgetown is the only side that could care less while Maryland is dying to have the game played. Maryland by NO MEANS needs this game more than Georgetown. If they did, they'd agree to play at Verizon and still have the large majority of fan support.
I'm not basing it off one article. I'm basing it off the stated policy of the Maryland Athletic Department to not play GTown in any sport until GTown agrees to play Maryland in mens basketball.
For full disclosure, I have a degree from GTown, so I am not unbiased on this one.
I can say that nobody that I know on the GTown side of this cares about playing Maryland. And I for one would be pissed if GTown agreed to play at Comcast every other year. In my mind it would be like XU agreeing to alternate the shootout at 5/3 one year and then US Bank with 50% UC fans the next. Even with GTown student sections and control of tickets, Verizon would be 70% full of Maryland fans. I'm fine playing a game every year at Verizon (with split tickets), but no thanks on the trip to Comcast.
And from everything I've heard, GTown has offered to play every year at Verizon as a neutral game, but Maryland refuses and is insisting on home and homes. Once Maryland moves off that point, the game will happen.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 02:17 PM
And from everything I've heard, GTown has offered to play every year at Verizon as a neutral game, but Maryland refuses and is insisting on home and homes. Once Maryland moves off that point, the game will happen.
From people I spoke to on both sides, GTown makes this offer simply because it knows Maryland will reject it.
Verizon will never be seen as "neutral" from Maryland.
LA Muskie
05-07-2012, 02:28 PM
Sorry DC, I know you've had your money theory and I'm not going to naively think I will change your mind, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that paying Sean Miller was never Maryland's issue. A completely different issue did come up that caused the parties to part ways. Turgeon makes $400,000 less than Sean does per year right now, and you can be sure he'll be getting a raise in the next year or two. Not only could Anderson pay Miller what he was getting at Arizona; he is paying damn near that exact amount to Turgeon in his first season. Mathematical magic aside, money was not the reason.
A 20% difference isn't exactly a drop in the bucket.
LA Muskie
05-07-2012, 02:29 PM
From people I spoke to on both sides, GTown makes this offer simply because it knows Maryland will reject it.
Verizon will never be seen as "neutral" from Maryland.
Exactly. Because it's not.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 03:23 PM
From an outside observer who knows nothing about this other than what I've read in this thread, I'm not sure why Maryland would reject Verizon as "non-neutral". From what I've read in the thread, Maryland would always have more fans at any "neutral site" game there, so what's the problem exactly?
GTown is not going to split the ticket sales of an arena it calls home. They can bring in Duke, Memphis and when Syracuse comes to town, sell the place out. Why would anyone want to have a "neutral" game on their home court and split the revenue?
Who does that?
Answer?
No one.
But GTown throws it out there from time to time, knowing that Maryland doesn't want to lose ticket sales by playing a "neutral" game on the Hoyas home court.
Maryland would love to have the Hoyas come to Comcast. GTown can play their home game at McDonough Arena, which seats like three people. Obviously GTown would love to have more fans there, so they won't play in their on campus closet.
The only way this thing happens is, GTown moves out of the Phone Booth, or they play it at Nats Park.
I just love the fact Maryland has tossed a grenade into the whole thing.
I'm not basing it off one article. I'm basing it off the stated policy of the Maryland Athletic Department to not play GTown in any sport until GTown agrees to play Maryland in mens basketball.
For full disclosure, I have a degree from GTown, so I am not unbiased on this one.
I can say that nobody that I know on the GTown side of this cares about playing Maryland. And I for one would be pissed if GTown agreed to play at Comcast every other year. In my mind it would be like XU agreeing to alternate the shootout at 5/3 one year and then US Bank with 50% UC fans the next. Even with GTown student sections and control of tickets, Verizon would be 70% full of Maryland fans. I'm fine playing a game every year at Verizon (with split tickets), but no thanks on the trip to Comcast.
And from everything I've heard, GTown has offered to play every year at Verizon as a neutral game, but Maryland refuses and is insisting on home and homes. Once Maryland moves off that point, the game will happen.
That policy is Maryland's way of showing that they aren't going to cave into playing a neutral site at Georgetown's home arena, and as DC mentioned, split the profit with them, even if they would have many more fans. Again, if Maryland needed Georgetown on the schedule so badly, why wouldn't it just take the deal and be content playing at an NBA arena with more red than blue in the stands? It just doesn't add up.
Many members of my family and countless friends of mine have degrees from Georgetown. We must not have any overlapping friends because I know lots of people who want to see this game played, especially on the Georgetown side lately, as they've been the stronger program in recent years. I think it's kind of unreasonable to be pissed at the idea of playing a home and home with Maryland just because they would have more fans at the games. Hate to break it to you, but the Terps would have more fans at the game regardless of where it was played, home and home or neutral. Such is the case when you are comparing a big state school to a smaller private institution. Neutral just doesn't exist.
Maryland should not give in to Georgetown's condition because it doesn't benefit them. If they were as desperate to play the Hoyas as you say, this would certainly not be the case.
A 20% difference isn't exactly a drop in the bucket.
Actually, when you consider that Turgeon is in his first contract with the school and Miller is on his most recent extension (that they made in an effort to keep him), it's kind of exactly like a drop in the bucket. Turgeon will be paid at least that much by the time he gets extended, and thus the point remains.
xubrew
05-07-2012, 05:03 PM
What kind of attendance does Georgetown typically have?? Don't they normally fill the arena??
If so, then I would presume they're filling the arena with Georgetown fans. If Georgetown was in charge of game management and ticket distribution for what would technically be considered their home game, then wouldn't those same people fill the arena if they were to play Maryland??
I understand that Maryland has ten times as many fans. There are way more UC fans than Xavier fans, yet when the two play at Xavier, it's very much a pro Xavier crowd. Same with Louisville and Kentucky. Same with Marquette and Wisconsin. Same with Nebraska and CReighton.
What am I missing?? If it's Georgetown's home game, the same people that normally go to the games (students, donors, season ticket holders, etc) would get the majority of the tickets.
DC Muskie
05-07-2012, 05:13 PM
What kind of attendance does Georgetown typically have?? Don't they normally fill the arena??
If so, then I would presume they're filling the arena with Georgetown fans. If Georgetown was in charge of game management and ticket distribution for what would technically be considered their home game, then wouldn't those same people fill the arena if they were to play Maryland??
I understand that Maryland has ten times as many fans. There are way more UC fans than Xavier fans, yet when the two play at Xavier, it's very much a pro Xavier crowd. Same with Louisville and Kentucky. Same with Marquette and Wisconsin. Same with Nebraska and CReighton.
What am I missing?? If it's Georgetown's home game, the same people that normally go to the games (students, donors, season ticket holders, etc) would get the majority of the tickets.
They play in a 20,000 seat arena.
they should have more of a set up like Villanova has. Play on campus and then move to the NBA arena for the bigger games.
Seriously GTown really only packs the place when alumni from other big schools come to play. Like Syracuse. Like Duke. I've been to plenty of other games and the place is only half full. UC? hardly anyone is there. They have terrible time slots too. Most of GTown's games are played at noon. Who's going to a GTown game at noon and you can't get a beer?
If they played in the Verizon Center, Terp fans would eat up the remaining tickets in the upper bowl and club section. It would be the weirdest home court game you ever saw. Watch GTown and Syracuse games. Huge Syracuse crowd. When Duke comes, the place is packed with Duke fans. For the Terps, it would be ten times worse.
Why would Maryland split that revenue, just so GTown can play on their own floor? It's not their job to help GTown basketball make a profit.
What kind of attendance does Georgetown typically have?? Don't they normally fill the arena??
If so, then I would presume they're filling the arena with Georgetown fans. If Georgetown was in charge of game management and ticket distribution for what would technically be considered their home game, then wouldn't those same people fill the arena if they were to play Maryland??
I understand that Maryland has ten times as many fans. There are way more UC fans than Xavier fans, yet when the two play at Xavier, it's very much a pro Xavier crowd. Same with Louisville and Kentucky. Same with Marquette and Wisconsin. Same with Nebraska and CReighton.
What am I missing?? If it's Georgetown's home game, the same people that normally go to the games (students, donors, season ticket holders, etc) would get the majority of the tickets.
I've never been to a Georgetown game where the arena was full, but I've never been for the Syracuse game (well actually was last year but ended up staying at the Greene Turtle bar and drinking the whole time.) There are so many Maryland fans, though, that they would find their way to be a clearly large part of the crowd for a game like that. For any sporting event in this town, if you are willing to shell, you'll find a ticket to the game. A true home game at Verizon for Georgetown would have mostly blue in the lower bowl I imagine, but it would be pretty split otherwise. A neutral game wouldn't even be close to being close.
LA Muskie
05-07-2012, 05:33 PM
That policy is Maryland's way of showing that they aren't going to cave into playing a neutral site at Georgetown's home arena, and as DC mentioned, split the profit with them, even if they would have many more fans. Again, if Maryland needed Georgetown on the schedule so badly, why wouldn't it just take the deal and be content playing at an NBA arena with more red than blue in the stands? It just doesn't add up.
Many members of my family and countless friends of mine have degrees from Georgetown. We must not have any overlapping friends because I know lots of people who want to see this game played, especially on the Georgetown side lately, as they've been the stronger program in recent years. I think it's kind of unreasonable to be pissed at the idea of playing a home and home with Maryland just because they would have more fans at the games. Hate to break it to you, but the Terps would have more fans at the game regardless of where it was played, home and home or neutral. Such is the case when you are comparing a big state school to a smaller private institution. Neutral just doesn't exist.
Maryland should not give in to Georgetown's condition because it doesn't benefit them. If they were as desperate to play the Hoyas as you say, this would certainly not be the case.
Actually, when you consider that Turgeon is in his first contract with the school and Miller is on his most recent extension (that they made in an effort to keep him), it's kind of exactly like a drop in the bucket. Turgeon will be paid at least that much by the time he gets extended, and thus the point remains.
Maybe. Or maybe they went to the limit and Turgeon would take it but Miller would not.
Maybe. Or maybe they went to the limit and Turgeon would take it but Miller would not.
I don't know why I keep trying to convince people who clearly are speculating when I literally know exactly what happened from firsthand people involved, but again, that simply did not happen. I have bronchitis right now and thus too much time to kill, and I've done just that on this board today.
SM#24
05-07-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't know why I keep trying to convince people who clearly are speculating when I literally know exactly what happened from firsthand people involved, but again, that simply did not happen. I have bronchitis right now and thus too much time to kill, and I've done just that on this board today.
If you don't tell us exactly what happened, then everyone's going to continue to speculate. Personally, I figured it was some sort of personality conflict between Miller and Anderson that led Sean to back away (or Anderson to low ball Sean as a way to get Sean to back away).
LA Muskie
05-07-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't know why I keep trying to convince people who clearly are speculating when I literally know exactly what happened from firsthand people involved, but again, that simply did not happen. I have bronchitis right now and thus too much time to kill, and I've done just that on this board today.
I don't pretend to know one way or another. That's why I said "maybe." If you have the definitive story, then I applaud you (and would love to hear the full and unabridged version). That's rare in these parts.
That policy is Maryland's way of showing that they aren't going to cave into playing a neutral site at Georgetown's home arena, and as DC mentioned, split the profit with them, even if they would have many more fans. Again, if Maryland needed Georgetown on the schedule so badly, why wouldn't it just take the deal and be content playing at an NBA arena with more red than blue in the stands? It just doesn't add up.
So to prove that they won't cave, they need to stop scheduling GTown in all sports? Couldn't they prove they won't cave by not caving?
They play in a 20,000 seat arena.
they should have more of a set up like Villanova has. Play on campus and then move to the NBA arena for the bigger games.
Seriously GTown really only packs the place when alumni from other big schools come to play. Like Syracuse. Like Duke. I've been to plenty of other games and the place is only half full. UC? hardly anyone is there. They have terrible time slots too. Most of GTown's games are played at noon. Who's going to a GTown game at noon and you can't get a beer?
If they played in the Verizon Center, Terp fans would eat up the remaining tickets in the upper bowl and club section. It would be the weirdest home court game you ever saw. Watch GTown and Syracuse games. Huge Syracuse crowd. When Duke comes, the place is packed with Duke fans. For the Terps, it would be ten times worse.
Why would Maryland split that revenue, just so GTown can play on their own floor? It's not their job to help GTown basketball make a profit.
Yes, only sell out are when other teams buy tickets (Cuse, WVU, Pitt, Duke, ND).
And they can't play Saturday nights because there is always a Wizards/Caps game then.
An on-campus arena will never happen. They have been trying to build a small athletic facility (not an arena) with just lockers, weight rooms, practice courts, offices, etc for 10 years and still don't have approval from the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts, who apprently need to approve the appearance of all buildings in Georgetown.
http://www.thegeorgetowndish.com/thedish/design-panel-faults-gu-athletic-facility
If you don't tell us exactly what happened, then everyone's going to continue to speculate. Personally, I figured it was some sort of personality conflict between Miller and Anderson that led Sean to back away (or Anderson to low ball Sean as a way to get Sean to back away).
I know. I don't mean to be that guy and I would expect people to speculate. I really wouldn't feel comfortable posting on a public message board the exact details of what went down for multiple reasons. There was a conflict that arose between Anderson and Miller and it had to do with a difference in stances concerning a fundamental policy of the program. If I ever get to meet any of you guys and have a beer I'd be happy to sit down and explain my involvement with Maryland basketball and the deal-breaker between Anderson and Miller. There's a reason I try to stick almost solely to sports talk and friendly smack on these boards, rather than things like politics, religion, career, and other matters of my life outside this place.
So to prove that they won't cave, they need to stop scheduling GTown in all sports? Couldn't they prove they won't cave by not caving?
I would say that they are proving they won't cave by not caving. The part about not scheduling GTown in other sports is a potential leverage that they would be silly to give up. Maryland (and the ACC in general) is actually very good in several random sports (like women's field hockey) and while it's not the top priority of the university presidents like you said, other local schools like Georgetown really would like to have them on the schedule in many sports. It makes no sense for Maryland to weaken that position now, as this seemingly boundless stalemate continues on. I wouldn't' really read too much into it past that but that's just me.
What's important here is why hasn't anyone mentioned that we should hire Gary Williams as our "seasoned" assistant coach.
DC Muskie
05-14-2012, 11:24 AM
What's important here is why hasn't anyone mentioned that we should hire Gary Williams as our "seasoned" assistant coach.
That would be epic.
nuts4xu
05-14-2012, 01:51 PM
What's important here is why hasn't anyone mentioned that we should hire Gary Williams as our "seasoned" assistant coach.
...or Sean Miller.
LadyMuskie
05-14-2012, 05:10 PM
What's important here is why hasn't anyone mentioned that we should hire Gary Williams as our "seasoned" assistant coach.
Because Bob Knight hasn't said no yet. Once we get word from him one way or the other, we can focus our attention on Williams.
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