About to get dirty at the dump

[Masterofreality]

So. The Racoon's little (pun intended) brother just hired a guy who was an "AAU Runner" for Sonny Vacaro, Tom Ostrom.

This from Blackburn Review:

"Here is a great quote from an Arkansas message board:

A person that I know who is in the locker room everyday told me simply, “Ostrom is the worst human being that I have ever met."

I love this guy. I f-ing love this guy. My one hope with this new staff was that Archie Miller would hire someone not afraid to cut corners and bend the rules to bring in top-notch recruits. Flyer fans, we have our man. College basketball is a dirty business, with Ostrom UD finally has someone who knows how to operate on the margins. HUGE upgrade over Adrian Autry in my opinion."

Ok. The Archie Miller regime is starting right out in a straightforward, classy manner. I can't wait until the Cryers are put on Probation for Lack of Institutional Control.

[xudash]

But I thought they had a monopoly on class?

[xavierj]

swamp ass is going to have a coronary if handshakes before the game.

[XUglow]

Wow. Dayton is willing to trade a few wins for a Jim Harrick-style legacy?

Stay classy, Dayton.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Dayton was just late to the party. No team has 3 coaching assistants anymore. You have one coach, one pure recruiter, and one guy that can do both. Pretty much every program that recruits 4/5 star players has some former AAU guy on staff.

Let's not pretend Travis Steele is anything but a hired gun, diving into the AAU scum to dig up players. He's not a coach, he's a recruiter that sits on the bench. It's just what you need on staff to get talent.

[Muskied]

Dayton was just late to the party. No team has 3 coaching assistants anymore. You have one coach, one pure recruiter, and one guy that can do both. Pretty much every program that recruits 4/5 star players has some former AAU guy on staff.

Let's not pretend Travis Steele is anything but a hired gun, diving into the AAU scum to dig up players. He's not a coach, he's a recruiter that sits on the bench. It's just what you need on staff to get talent.

Let's not pretend you know anything about Xavier Basketball. You're a UD homer, diving into a Xavier chat board to dig up rumors. You're not an expert, you're a watermelon humper that posts bullshit.

[XUFan09]

Let's not pretend you know anything about Xavier Basketball. You're a UD homer, diving into a Xavier chat board to dig up rumors. You're not an expert, you're a watermelon humper that posts bullshit.

Gonna flat-out disagree with this one. I generally like Adam's contributions to the board.

[Muskied]

Gonna flat-out disagree with this one. I generally like Adam's contributions to the board.

Honestly, I do to. It was over the top....which was intentional to match his criticism of Travis. I'm sure Mack would disagree with Adam's assessment. Just the fact that each coach is required to scout opponents and prepare game plans make them a bit more than "hired Guns". I get his point...hell, we've had Book and Bino in here to do the same thing the past few years, and target regions with recruiting ties....however, I'm not going to pretend or agee that Travis hasn't earned his coaching stripes.

[xeus]

Let's not pretend Travis Steele is anything but a hired gun, diving into the AAU scum to dig up players. He's not a coach, he's a recruiter that sits on the bench. It's just what you need on staff to get talent.

Adam, did you mean to say "diving into the AAU scrum" rather than scum?

[MFurey]

Dayton was just late to the party. No team has 3 coaching assistants anymore. You have one coach, one pure recruiter, and one guy that can do both. Pretty much every program that recruits 4/5 star players has some former AAU guy on staff.

Let's not pretend Travis Steele is anything but a hired gun, diving into the AAU scum to dig up players. He's not a coach, he's a recruiter that sits on the bench. It's just what you need on staff to get talent.

I would agree but I would swap Steeles name out for Rasheen Davis at this point. Travis would be your guy that can do both. Davis is the least experienced bench coach and has ties to NYC AAU circuit. Steele does as well as he was the coach in the AAU ranks at one point.

It is not secret that is why Sean brought Book here, his AAU connections.

[Muskied]

Adam, did you mean to say "diving into the AAU scrum" rather than scum?

Travis is a bit too slight of build to play scrum half....I'd prefer avoiding a rugby metaphor with our staff....

[MuskieCinci]

I would say the head coach only recruits to close the deal on players and evaluate players to see if they are good enough to offer a scholarship to. I would also think they are a little more hands on for the more prestigious players. The three assistants all have their primary focus as recruiting. Bringing in talented players is their most important job as an assistant, coaching is a distant second.

From there each assistant coach has a different region of the country that they try and focus on. The first and second assistant are also heavily into the coaching aspect and those two are Steele and Kelsey. Often times Mack will divide the players up into teams with Steele coaching one team and Kelsey coaching the other while Mack oversees the whole thing. Rasheen Davis is a recruiter 99%. He is a friend to the players and most of his coaching is done by evaluating future opponents for Mack and some indiviudal work. This absolutely fluctuates and may be different from program to program but from people that I know this is pretty much how it works at Xavier. If anyone else knows more or think I mixed something up let me know.

The Dayton assistants all seem to be pretty green though in the coaching aspect of things and have more of a recruiting background. Plus Archie doesn't exactly have a significant coaching background himself either so it will be interesting to see if X's and O's are very good for Dayton and if their players improve and learn the game at a higher rate than before.

[Masterofreality]

“Ostrom is the worst human being that I have ever met."


So. Anybody wanna say that any of the X coaches fit this description?

[JTG]

“Ostrom is the worst human being that I have ever met."


So. Anybody wanna say that any of the X coaches fit this description?

After reading the SI article on Coach Cal, sounds like Ostrum is a Calipari in the making.

Maybe Tay Baker, as he was a total waste as a coach.

[AdamtheFlyer]

My point was this (and I had forgotten about Davis): Steele and Davis were brought in solely to get players. They "grew up" so to speak in the AAU cesspool, working with street agents and other scumbags to get players scholarships. That skill earned them throwaway jobs as "video coordinator", which is a professional title given to people that know people and can get a foot in the door with specific AAU programs and coaches. Good old Mick Cronin has a quote about the video coordinator gig " I was hired by Huggins to be video coordinator when I couldn't even plug in a VCR." These guys are there to use connections to get players. Period.

Pretty sure Steele had all of about 10 games on the bench at Indiana, only because of the mess that was Kelvin Sampson. His actual job was to recruit for Kelvin Sampson. Think about that.

I don't believe Davis had ever sat on a bench at the college level. He was a recruiting assistant under Pitino, showing kids around campus. He did much the same at Pitt. His only bench experience was with the NY Gauchos and as an assistant at Brother Rice in NYC.

These guys were hired guns that existed in the grey area that is recruiting. They were brought in solely to get players, not coach them. If they learned how to coach since, great, but that is not why they were hired.

This is exactly what Archie did with Ostrom, although Ostrom does have like 7 years experience on a college bench. So do the other assistants, Kuwik and Allen Griffin. It's not a "green" staff at all. It's quite experienced. Pooling Archie, Kuwik, Griffin and the DBO, they have over 30 years of combined experience inside college programs. Not bad at all. A very good first staff for Archie to work with.

[Muskied]

My point was this (and I had forgotten about Davis): Steele and Davis were brought in solely to get players. They "grew up" so to speak in the AAU cesspool, working with street agents and other scumbags to get players scholarships. That skill earned them throwaway jobs as "video coordinator", which is a professional title given to people that know people and can get a foot in the door with specific AAU programs and coaches. Good old Mick Cronin has a quote about the video coordinator gig " I was hired by Huggins to be video coordinator when I couldn't even plug in a VCR." These guys are there to use connections to get players. Period.

Pretty sure Steele had all of about 10 games on the bench at Indiana, only because of the mess that was Kelvin Sampson. His actual job was to recruit for Kelvin Sampson. Think about that.

I don't believe Davis had ever sat on a bench at the college level. He was a recruiting assistant under Pitino, showing kids around campus. He did much the same at Pitt. His only bench experience was with the NY Gauchos and as an assistant at Brother Rice in NYC.

These guys were hired guns that existed in the grey area that is recruiting. They were brought in solely to get players, not coach them. If they learned how to coach since, great, but that is not why they were hired.

This is exactly what Archie did with Ostrom, although Ostrom does have like 7 years experience on a college bench. So do the other assistants, Kuwik and Allen Griffin. It's not a "green" staff at all. It's quite experienced. Pooling Archie, Kuwik, Griffin and the DBO, they have over 30 years of combined experience inside college programs. Not bad at all. A very good first staff for Archie to work with.

I know what you're point is Adam, and again, I still think you should be careful criticizing Xavier coaches on our turf. Yes, Travis has held Video Cordinator jobs...jobs which 26 year olds often have on staffs to learn the business. He's conducted skills camps and coached on AAU, HS, and other college staffs. He graduated Cum Laude from Butler University, knows the game of basketball, and I believe is depended on to manage a bit more than recruiting relationships. Yes, teams are targeting assistants who have recruiting relationships and can navigate the AAU scene. But to say that Chris Mack hired in 2 of his 3 assistants without an expectation to coach players is very ignorant, and I think I'm starting to doubt your reputation others apparently have of you on this board....

In fact, after reviewing the hires Archie is making, see no difference in the strategy and background of the staff he has targeted with what Matta, Miller, and now Mack have done at Xavier.

[West is Best]

My point was this (and I had forgotten about Davis): Steele and Davis were brought in solely to get players. They "grew up" so to speak in the AAU cesspool, working with street agents and other scumbags to get players scholarships.

You're getting cynical AtF - AAU is far from perfect, but it's important to player development. Without it, big men would almost never have a chance to play against players their own size. Also, a player from a small school like Brad Redford would never get an offer from X if he didn't have the opportunity to play with the Michigan Mustangs.


That skill earned them throwaway jobs as "video coordinator", which is a professional title given to people that know people and can get a foot in the door with specific AAU programs and coaches. Good old Mick Cronin has a quote about the video coordinator gig " I was hired by Huggins to be video coordinator when I couldn't even plug in a VCR."

Video Coodinator is a foot in the door, just like a med school student is a resident before he or she becomes a doctor. Video coodinators already have worked with high school/AAU/college programs before they take the job. I don't see what about this makes a the position shady, whether is X or UD or anybody else.

[Muskied]

This is exactly what Archie did with Ostrom, although Ostrom does have like 7 years experience on a college bench. So do the other assistants, Kuwik and Allen Griffin. It's not a "green" staff at all. It's quite experienced. Pooling Archie, Kuwik, Griffin and the DBO, they have over 30 years of combined experience inside college programs. Not bad at all. A very good first staff for Archie to work with.

Except Kuwik and Ostrom did start out as video coordinators...I hope Archie isn't depending on them to actually "coach" players....being assistant coaches and all....

[EternalLife]

Next couple years of Dayton basketball should be interesting.

[Masterofreality]

Report: "Alex Gavrilovic, the 6’9” Frenchman, becomes Archie Miller’s first recruit at Dayton."

Of course the dump would sign a Frenchman. They are excellent at surrendering.

[EternalLife]

Report: "Alex Gavrilovic, the 6’9” Frenchman, becomes Archie Miller’s first recruit at Dayton."

Of course the dump would sign a Frenchman. They are excellent at surrendering.

And sending catholics to the guiltine...
They're also a school founded by French Marianists.
So we should have probably already rolled that one out before now...

[American X]

And sending catholics to the guiltine...

And where you are going without drastic improvement.

[muskiefan82]

And sending catholics to the guiltine...
They're also a school founded by French Marianists.
So we should have probably already rolled that one out before now...

It's guillotine, though those who go there are often guilty.

[EternalLife]

And where you are going without drastic improvement.
Guillotine*

While I'm glad you can point out a typo, I was under the impression this was a message board, not a drama club. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt to the point you decided to take up that sort of tactic but honestly, if you ban me the world will still turn, the french comment will still be unfunny and you still aren't a hard ass. Take that however you want...

[XULucho27]

Guillotine*

While I'm glad you can point out a typo, I was under the impression this was a message board, not a drama club. I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt to the point you decided to take up that sort of tactic but honestly, if you ban me the world will still turn, the French comment will still be unfunny and you still aren't a hard ass. Take that however you want...

In English, the word French is capitalized when it means the language, a French person or things from France. However, the lowercase is often used for terms that are no longer specifically French. The term "french fries," for example, is not capitalized.

In French, the word français (French) is not capitalized as an adjective. It is, however, capitalized Français when it means a French person.

Also, you might consider separating two independent clauses in a sentence by using a semicolon, as opposed to a comma.

For example:

I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt to the point you decided to take up that sort of tactic; honestly, if you ban me the world will still turn, the French comment will still be unfunny and you still aren't a hard ass.

Semicolon use is helpful when connecting two independent clauses that relate or contrast each other. In the example above, you've made a causal connection between the sort of tactic employed by AmX and the what will occur as a result of that tactic (e.g. world still turning, French comment remaining unfunny) hence, the use of a semicolon is appropriate. It also helps reduce run-on sentences.

Just remember, if you use a semicolon, don't use it with conjunctions.

[EternalLife]

In English, the word French is capitalized when it means the language, a French person or things from France. However, the lowercase is often used for terms that are no longer specifically French. The term "french fries," for example, is not capitalized.

In French, the word français (French) is not capitalized as an adjective. It is, however, capitalized Français when it means a French person.

Also, you might consider separating two independent clauses in a sentence by using a semicolon, as opposed to a comma.

For example:


Semicolon use is helpful when connecting two independent clauses that relate or contrast each other. In the example above, you've made a causal connection between the sort of tactic employed by AmX and the what will occur as a result of that tactic (e.g. world still turning, French comment remaining unfunny) hence, the use of a semicolon is appropriate. It also helps reduce run-on sentences.

Just remember, if you use a semicolon, don't use it with conjunctions.

Of course, I could just take this as a message board post and not take the time to critique spelling and grammar being used; especially when the jist of what the person(in this case me) is saying, is so blatantly obvious that it is completely unnecessary.

Still, good to know people care. :cool:

I wasn't aware the temporal relation of the two clauses you mentioned counted. I always assumed that for the two to be related they would have to be like "Flies are found in garbage cans; prom babies are found in garbage cans, too."

Are the two really related in the case of my post? ... If they had a conjunctive adverb off set by commas, I could see it but that's really not the case.

[XULucho27]

I wasn't aware the temporal relation of the two clauses you mentioned counted. I always assumed that for the two to be related they would have to be like "Flies are found in garbage cans; prom babies are found in garbage cans, too."

Yes, you are correct in that the use of a conjunctive adverb in the sentence in question would have allowed for the proper use of a semicolon. For example,


I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt to the point you decided to take up that sort of tactic; nevertheless, if you ban me the world will still turn, the French comment will still be unfunny and you still aren't a hard ass.


Are the two really related in the case of my post? ... If they had a conjunctive adverb off set by commas, I could see it but that's really not the case.

The temporal relation can indeed warrant the use of a semicolon if the two independent clauses have a closer relationship to each other than other sentences within the paragraph. I took the meaning of your post as "if you take up that sort of tactic (banning), the world will still turn...you still aren't a hard ass." The relationship between the two clauses, in this case, is sufficient to warrant the use of a semicolon. Your post wasn't grammatically incorrect in omitting a semicolon but it reads more clearly if you do use one. The use of a semicolon in your post, although not necessary, is proper.

:)

[Tardy Turtle]

if you ban me the world will still turn, the french comment will still be unfunny and you still aren't a hard ass.

And you'll still be a shitty poster.

[Muskie]

Everyone give it a rest. I know it's the summer but sheesh.

[EternalLife]

And you'll still be a shitty poster.

That hurt man, really...
I mean it.. just eating at my soul!
....
....
.......
........

[outsideobserver11]

Did you know the human head weighs 8 pounds?

[MADXSTER]

Long live the semi-colon; I like french fries.

[Masterofreality]

Long live the semi-colon; I like french fries.

Would a Bartolo semi-Colon be a better pitcher? There would certainly be less of him.

Oh sorry, wrong thread.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I know what you're point is Adam, and again, I still think you should be careful criticizing Xavier coaches on our turf. Yes, Travis has held Video Cordinator jobs...jobs which 26 year olds often have on staffs to learn the business. He's conducted skills camps and coached on AAU, HS, and other college staffs. He graduated Cum Laude from Butler University, knows the game of basketball, and I believe is depended on to manage a bit more than recruiting relationships. Yes, teams are targeting assistants who have recruiting relationships and can navigate the AAU scene. But to say that Chris Mack hired in 2 of his 3 assistants without an expectation to coach players is very ignorant, and I think I'm starting to doubt your reputation others apparently have of you on this board....

In fact, after reviewing the hires Archie is making, see no difference in the strategy and background of the staff he has targeted with what Matta, Miller, and now Mack have done at Xavier.

I didn't criticize anyone. Never said anyone didn't know basketball or weren't good coaches. They all know basketball, along with thousands upon thousands of people not in the coaching business. My point is that knowing basketball is not a must have skill to get a job within a college program. College head coaches don't care if you understand the nuances of the Bo Ryan swing offense or John Chaney matchup zone at age 24. There are literally thousands of graduating seniors this year that could show up and out X and O many college experienced assistants. You get hired to recruit and repeat the head coaches words to players.

The only thing that separates a guy like Ostrom or Steele from, say, Josh Andrews (a pretty brilliant young coach that took Princeton HS to the state title game as a 25 year old and just moved to Middletown), is deep connections in AAU. That's why Steele was at Indiana under Sampson while Andrews went straight to being a HS assistant, and was forced to take over as a head coach so soon due to the passing of his mentor. Andrews will coach in college some day soon, but he had to take another path. He wasn't hanging around the AAU scene as a 23 year old.

And make no mistake, while AAU has become the place to be seen over the last 15 years, it is not a great place for development. Kids play 3-5 games per day every weekend in AAU play, many times playing 3 games before 3PM. To win AAU events, teams typically play between 8-12 games in a three or four day event. They may practice on Thursday before they hit the road, but most only have once a week practices the quieter periods in April and June. Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday are rest days. Players and coaches can't possibly develop skills in that atmosphere. Players are showing off, young coaches are developing connections either for future jobs or coveted shoe/gear deals. That is the real AAU. Despite the drawbacks it does far more good than bad, but no one should pretend it's there to develop players. It's a showcase.

The real development is done in the winter with daily structured practices and games spaced out enough to actually improve in between, let alone even have enough time to eat a full meal. You just don't hear about a kid's improvement until May, because that's when the number of trained eyes watching increases exponentially, and they judge by what the report from last July said.

[GoMuskies]

The best way to improve is by playing against players better than you. That's not to say that the structured practice settings working on fundamentals at the high school level don't help (assuming you are talking about a good high school coach), but it's crazy to think that kids don't improve playing all summer against kids at and above their skill and athleticism level (after often dominating completely overmatched opponents in their high school seasons).

[Masterofreality]

The best way to improve is by playing against players better than you.

Yep. Playing Eastern Kentucky and Savannah State in the Non-Conference schedule sure helps that improvement.

[nuts4xu]

Yep. Playing Eastern Kentucky and Savannah State in the Non-Conference schedule sure helps that improvement.

It sure helped Brian Gregory...get another job.