Brad Stevens

[picknroll]

Just a hunch...I think Stevens will eventually be the next men's basketball coach at Duke whether immediately after Butler or down the road from another gig. Coach K is getting a little long in the tooth, may take an NBA gig, or just may retire soon. I see Brad as the man for that job...demeanor, coaching acumen and the professionalism that Duke desires to continue after Coach K.

[BMoreX]

Eh, I disagree. Nothing against Stevens, but I think the next Duke coach is going to come from in-house.

[Masterofreality]

Please move to the NCAA section. Nothing to do with Xavier here.

[smileyy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Collins_%28basketball%29

10 years as an assistant, 2 as an associate head coach. If he weren't taking over at Duke, he'd have another job by now...

[jco17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Collins_%28basketball%29

10 years as an assistant, 2 as an associate head coach. If he weren't taking over at Duke, he'd have another job by now...

Are you sure? What about Indiana? I've heard he wants to take over Indiana, not Duke. Watch out when he does. They are gonna be a force to be reckoned with as soon as it happens. He's from Indiana, has great ties there which supplies a ton of talent every year, and Indiana may be getting tired of Crean. I'd expect Stevens to be their next head coach. Crean did a decent job of bridging the gap.

[HEMI]

Put me in the camp that doesn’t think Stevens is leaving anytime soon. That said, I found this interesting. From espn:


He's content.


"You hear people say all the time, 'The grass is greener somewhere else,'" Stevens said. "Well, I think the grass is very green at Butler. Certainly there can be green grass at other places. You understand that. You see people go through it. You see sometimes it works out for people and sometimes it doesn't. But like I've said many times, we're happy."


Collier will count on that contentedness, plus an upcoming $25 million renovation to Hinkle Fieldhouse, a program that presumably could have its pick of the type of players it wants to recruit and a name-branding usually reserved for the big boys of college sports.


And if all else fails, he pointed out one other distinction that he hopes will keep Butler in the front of the pack to keep Stevens on as its head coach.


"It's going to take a school capable of going to back-to-back-to-back national championship games to take him away," Collier said.


He wasn't laughing, either.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/29400/keeping-stevens-a-priority-for-butler-ad

[jco17]

Put me in the camp that doesn’t think Stevens is leaving anytime soon. That said, I found this interesting. From espn:


He's content.


"You hear people say all the time, 'The grass is greener somewhere else,'" Stevens said. "Well, I think the grass is very green at Butler. Certainly there can be green grass at other places. You understand that. You see people go through it. You see sometimes it works out for people and sometimes it doesn't. But like I've said many times, we're happy."


Collier will count on that contentedness, plus an upcoming $25 million renovation to Hinkle Fieldhouse, a program that presumably could have its pick of the type of players it wants to recruit and a name-branding usually reserved for the big boys of college sports.


And if all else fails, he pointed out one other distinction that he hopes will keep Butler in the front of the pack to keep Stevens on as its head coach.


"It's going to take a school capable of going to back-to-back-to-back national championship games to take him away," Collier said.


He wasn't laughing, either.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/29400/keeping-stevens-a-priority-for-butler-ad

That's very interesting, but I just think in the end, he moves on to IU. He's got a special group of players that are basically gone after this year. Can he keep getting those special players to go to Butler over Purdue, IU, ND, etc? Likely not and Butler doesn't have a solid history that goes well back. They've been decent in years and his success so far has been amazing. However, sustained winning is unbelievably tough and not making a tournament in the Horizon league is unacceptable.

There are a few coaches that can handle it, like Mark Few at Gonzaga who play in a weak conference and make it to the tournament every year. It's gonna be really tough for Stevens to make the tourny next year. He's on a high right now, but if they lose again and he's unable to get back to the tournament next year, his tone may very well change. A lot of kids nowadays have a what are you doing currently mentality. Especially if they are considering a school in a weak conference like Butler.

Of course there are schools like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Syracuse, and Duke that are always gonna get kids because of their outstanding history. I wouldn't even lump Arizona in with those schools. I think with the right coach Indiana would join that list as well. Stevens of course would be that right coach. Heck, even Crean who's done jack squat without Dwanyne Wade can get kids to go to IU.

So when Purdue, IU, and ND are all playing high level basketball are kids gonna go to Butler instead? I have serious doubts. I'd definately have a huge respect for Brad if he stuck to that and continued to be successful.

[LA Muskie]

I don't think he's going anywhere. At least not any time soon. You say:


He's got a special group of players that are basically gone after this year. Can he keep getting those special players to go to Butler over Purdue, IU, ND, etc? Likely not and Butler doesn't have a solid history that goes well back. They've been decent in years and his success so far has been amazing. However, sustained winning is unbelievably tough and not making a tournament in the Horizon league is unacceptable.

I think with 2 championship games (not just Final Fours) under his belt, he has a significant recruiting advantage over each of the schools you mentioned -- and especially IU. Most 16 year old kids have no idea the basketball reputation IU once had. It appears that Bloomington's influence has waned even in-state.

There's no formula for this. People look at Mark Few at Gonzaga, but he never had what Stevens has done. 2 championship games (and possibly a national championship) will do tons for recruiting. And regardless, these two games aren't a flash in the pan. Like Xavier, Butler has a program system and vision. They recruit players who will thrive in that environment. And they are exceedingly well coached.

Stevens seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I can't see him leaving the friendly confines of his own backyard except for an offer he can't refuse from a Top 5 program at a small, private university where he can do things his way. That's pretty much Duke, but like I've said before I think they'll want to keep the gig in-house. So he may just have to build a dynasty in Indy. And while that may seem like long odds, he hasn't done anything to indicate he couldn't do it.

[xavierj]

I don't think he's going anywhere. At least not any time soon. You say:


He's got a special group of players that are basically gone after this year. Can he keep getting those special players to go to Butler over Purdue, IU, ND, etc? Likely not and Butler doesn't have a solid history that goes well back. They've been decent in years and his success so far has been amazing. However, sustained winning is unbelievably tough and not making a tournament in the Horizon league is unacceptable.

I think with 2 championship games (not just Final Fours) under his belt, he has a significant recruiting advantage over each of the schools you mentioned -- and especially IU. Most 16 year old kids have no idea the basketball reputation IU once had. It appears that Bloomington's influence has waned even in-state.

There's no formula for this. People look at Mark Few at Gonzaga, but he never had what Stevens has done. 2 championship games (and possibly a national championship) will do tons for recruiting. And regardless, these two games aren't a flash in the pan. Like Xavier, Butler has a program system and vision. They recruit players who will thrive in that environment. And they are exceedingly well coached.

Stevens seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I can't see him leaving the friendly confines of his own backyard except for an offer he can't refuse from a Top 5 program at a small, private university where he can do things his way. That's pretty much Duke, but like I've said before I think they'll want to keep the gig in-house. So he may just have to build a dynasty in Indy. And while that may seem like long odds, he hasn't done anything to indicate he couldn't do it.

The class IU just landed is heads and shoulders above what Butler has in the pipeline. IU has landed 3 five star recruits and 2 four star recruits in 2011 & 2012 classes. Can Crean coach them? Doubt it but about 3 or 4 of those guys could start at Butler in 2 years. Even with the success Butler has had they are about 7th in the pecking order for Indiana recruits behind Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio St. Purdue, Notre Dame and Xavier.

[boozehound]

I am in the camp that is curious to see if Stevens can come anywhere close to repeating this kind of success over the longer term at Butler. I don't think he stays long though. I kind of wonder how long IU is going to give Crean, particularly if they know that Stevens is right there in the same state.

It is nice that he says he wants to stay at Butler but I don't see it happening. They can't come close to paying what a top school can. Their facilities don't compare. Stevens at IU would be an absolute force, IMHO. He can lock down that state again. Why would he not go to IU, for example, if offered?

I do think that he will be careful what jobs he leaves for. He isn't just going to run down to NC State for a big pay day. I do think he leaves when a top job opens up in the Midwest.

[whitesox]

I don't think he's going anywhere. At least not any time soon. You say:


He's got a special group of players that are basically gone after this year. Can he keep getting those special players to go to Butler over Purdue, IU, ND, etc? Likely not and Butler doesn't have a solid history that goes well back. They've been decent in years and his success so far has been amazing. However, sustained winning is unbelievably tough and not making a tournament in the Horizon league is unacceptable.

I think with 2 championship games (not just Final Fours) under his belt, he has a significant recruiting advantage over each of the schools you mentioned -- and especially IU. Most 16 year old kids have no idea the basketball reputation IU once had. It appears that Bloomington's influence has waned even in-state.

There's no formula for this. People look at Mark Few at Gonzaga, but he never had what Stevens has done. 2 championship games (and possibly a national championship) will do tons for recruiting. And regardless, these two games aren't a flash in the pan. Like Xavier, Butler has a program system and vision. They recruit players who will thrive in that environment. And they are exceedingly well coached.

Stevens seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I can't see him leaving the friendly confines of his own backyard except for an offer he can't refuse from a Top 5 program at a small, private university where he can do things his way. That's pretty much Duke, but like I've said before I think they'll want to keep the gig in-house. So he may just have to build a dynasty in Indy. And while that may seem like long odds, he hasn't done anything to indicate he couldn't do it.

You are greatly underestimating the reputation of IU for kids in Indiana. Every 16 year old kid in Indiana knows the basketball reputation IU once had.

In addition to the recruits xavierj mentioned, Crean has 2 borderline 4/5 star recruits in 2013 and two more possible (though it is a long way out) 5 star guys in 2014, all from Indiana. Butler, even with all their success last year, was in on one of IU's recruits from 2011-2014 (Cody Zeller).

Going to another Final Four will help, but right now Butler isn't in the conversation for the vast majority of the top Indiana kids. IU is in the mix for nearly all of them. That's a difference that will take a long time to overcome.

That being said, it is really difficult to see Stevens leaving any time in the near future. He has built on the Final Four last year with a lot of success recruiting under the radar 3 star players- guys outside the top 100 but inside the Rivals top 150- with high ceilings. Good example: Chrishawn Hopkins, the freshman who hit a big shot against Florida, was #124 on Rivals but is a tremendous athlete who averaged 26 points per game in high school. However, he wasn't on a top AAU team and played for a terrible Indy high school team. In a couple years, he will probably be a great college player.

As Butler gets to be a more prominent program, their recruiting will improve. But they aren't going to suddenly going to outrecruit IU, Purdue, and the top out of state programs (MSU, UK, Louisville, OSU, etc.) for whoever they want.

[PMI]

I have no idea what Brad Stevens' future holds and maybe he is that super rare breed who is totally content on spending his best days at Butler, but aren't us Xavier fans supposed to know to take a coach's words with no more than a grain of salt? Everyone here thought Sean Miller walked on water and was a stand up class act and yada yada yada. Then he left and became a villain over night. Brad Stevens could be a total scum bag kiddie porn addict for all we know. I don't believe he is a bad guy, by any means (and is one hell of an actor if he is), but my point is we shouldn't assume that just because he's having success and even has a good table set for the future, that he's set in stone at Butler for years to come. At the end of the day, Butler still takes a big backseat to tons of other programs when it comes to seemingly everything other than recent on-court success. If a big program with real fan support and excellent facilities and basketball commitment comes waving a fat check at Stevens, I'm not going to just assume he'll turn it down because he said the grass is green at Butler. I've learned that lesson too many times.

[Muskied]

As Butler gets to be a more prominent program, their recruiting will improve. But they aren't going to suddenly going to outrecruit IU, Purdue, and the top out of state programs (MSU, UK, Louisville, OSU, etc.) for whoever they want.

Bottom line is...I don't think they are planning to out recruit those programs, or even have a goal to. They compete on some players, but they have a very specific system and player to fit what they want to accomplish. Keep in mind, they've had 3 academic all americans the past 5 years I believe. Not that other schools recruit dumb players...but it's a different player. I'm sure they didn't plan on Hayward leaving early when they recruited him, and don't expect their type of player to be that guy.

Now I believe their F4's help exposure, and maybe that leads to higher ranked players coming to Butler...maybe its just a coinsidence. I still think they target the same player they would traditionally.

I've heard IU as a spot for Stevens...I don't know why...I haven't heard it's his dream job, and sure don't believe he would only go there because they are able to get "better players." Again, there's obviously a Butler way, and it's proven successful.

[whitesox]

Bottom line is...I don't think they are planning to out recruit those programs, or even have a goal to. They compete on some players, but they have a very specific system and player to fit what they want to accomplish. Keep in mind, they've had 3 academic all americans the past 5 years I believe. Not that other schools recruit dumb players...but it's a different player. I'm sure they didn't plan on Hayward leaving early when they recruited him, and don't expect their type of player to be that guy.

Now I believe their F4's help exposure, and maybe that leads to higher ranked players coming to Butler...maybe its just a coinsidence. I still think they target the same player they would traditionally.

I've heard IU as a spot for Stevens...I don't know why...I haven't heard it's his dream job, and sure don't believe he would only go there because they are able to get "better players." Again, there's obviously a Butler way, and it's proven successful.

Completely agree regarding Butler's recruiting. They have done a great job of picking out the players they want.

I've heard a lot of people say IU is his "dream job." That's probably at least partially speculation, but he did grow up cheering for IU (his father played football at IU). I get the feeling Stevens doesn't really want a higher profile job (I think he likes coaching at a school that doesn't have an obsessive fan base like, for instance, Kentucky), but if he wanted a big name job I wouldn't be surprised if Indiana was at the top of his list.

[LA Muskie]

Bottom line is...I don't think they are planning to out recruit those programs, or even have a goal to. They compete on some players, but they have a very specific system and player to fit what they want to accomplish. Keep in mind, they've had 3 academic all americans the past 5 years I believe. Not that other schools recruit dumb players...but it's a different player. I'm sure they didn't plan on Hayward leaving early when they recruited him, and don't expect their type of player to be that guy.

Now I believe their F4's help exposure, and maybe that leads to higher ranked players coming to Butler...maybe its just a coinsidence. I still think they target the same player they would traditionally.

I've heard IU as a spot for Stevens...I don't know why...I haven't heard it's his dream job, and sure don't believe he would only go there because they are able to get "better players." Again, there's obviously a Butler way, and it's proven successful.
I agree with all of this. You don't need 5-Star recruits to win. See, e.g., Xavier. Oh, and Butler.

[whitesox]

I agree with all of this. You don't need 5-Star recruits to win. See, e.g., Xavier. Oh, and Butler.

While it is a little different because it is in the Big 10, Wisconsin is a tremendous example of this. Their recruiting classes 2007-2010 (the classes that made up this year's team): 5 four star, 8 three star, and a 2 star according to Scout. They have three top 100 players on the team: guys who were ranked 85, 89, and 100 (Leuer, Berggren, and Nankivil). Bo Ryan brings in players to fit a particular system and wins with them.

[waggy]

I don't know what to think of the recruiting deal. I mean Butler is in back to back FF's with their "crappy" recruits. Not sure I believe all the buzz/excitement/hype that goes into recruiting. Sure, the kids at the very top, say top 10 are guys that can come in and significantly contribute right away; beyond that the rest of them have to work. Not sure many of them get that - maybe especially those coming to X because we have such an enthusiastic online community. Talent is important, but at the same time most kids need to come in with much lower expectations of playing time.

[PMI]

I agree with all of this. You don't need 5-Star recruits to win. See, e.g., Xavier. Oh, and Butler.

I agree to an extent, but I think people always have a tendency to get caught up in the present moment with things like that. The fact is, the vast majority of the FF teams, and particularly national champions over the years, have had very highly rated recruits on their team. Xavier, and to an even greater extent Butler, are the exception to winning in the tournament without 5 stars, and XU is still looking for it's first Final Four (and 5 star recruit.) You don't need the elite recruits to build a great roster, but it's a lot easier if you do. Everyone talks about how college basketball has lacked that really great team the past two years, and while some of that is merely apologetic by the talking heads, there is a lot of truth to it. Over the long term, the great players are the ones who win. Butler happened to find at least 3 really great players under the radar, like we have over the years. What Butler has done is that much more rare and impressive because they've done it without highly rated recruits, but if they keep recruiting 3 stars, it's pretty wishful to think they'll keep making Sweet 16s and beyond in my opinion. Recruiting is a MAJOR part of success in college sports. Butler is one of the all-time great outliers in this regard.

[HEMI]

Who Butler recruits the next few years should be interesting to follow. Back to back appearances in the NC game will get Stevens into any living room in the country. His ability to sell that kid on getting to the NBA will determine who he gets on campus. If Mack or Howard can play themselves onto a roster somewhere and join Hayward in the NBA, Stevens' job gets a whole lot easier.

[xavierj]

Butler in a way kind of got lucky. They have gone to back to back final 4's because everything aligned perfectly. When I say that it really did from the recruits to the games to the match up's to the close games that they had to have bounce their way, missed free throws and a foul 95 feet away from the basket with less than a second left. And when I say recruits I mean the 3 guys responsible for their success the last 2 years, well maybe 4 players. Ronald Nored had signed with Western KY then switched to Butler after Horn went to South Carolina. Gordon Hayward was an unknown who no one really recruited because they thought he was more of a tennis player. Matt Howard was close to signing with Xavier and Shelvin Mack blew up late and almost switched to Kentucky. Without those guys they are just an average bunch that is about the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Horizon league. Butler is good, well coached and very fortunate.

[HEMI]

I have no idea what Brad Stevens' future holds and maybe he is that super rare breed who is totally content on spending his best days at Butler, but aren't us Xavier fans supposed to know to take a coach's words with no more than a grain of salt?

Grain of salt? Hell, I'm downright jaded. My first thought when I read that article was that he was doing a masterful job of leaving the door open. It's a very savy answer and probably the best one, but it's a far cry from, "I'm committed to Butler."

[xudash]

You are greatly underestimating the reputation of IU for kids in Indiana. Every 16 year old kid in Indiana knows the basketball reputation IU once had.

In addition to the recruits xavierj mentioned, Crean has 2 borderline 4/5 star recruits in 2013 and two more possible (though it is a long way out) 5 star guys in 2014, all from Indiana. Butler, even with all their success last year, was in on one of IU's recruits from 2011-2014 (Cody Zeller).

Going to another Final Four will help, but right now Butler isn't in the conversation for the vast majority of the top Indiana kids. IU is in the mix for nearly all of them. That's a difference that will take a long time to overcome.

That being said, it is really difficult to see Stevens leaving any time in the near future. He has built on the Final Four last year with a lot of success recruiting under the radar 3 star players- guys outside the top 100 but inside the Rivals top 150- with high ceilings. Good example: Chrishawn Hopkins, the freshman who hit a big shot against Florida, was #124 on Rivals but is a tremendous athlete who averaged 26 points per game in high school. However, he wasn't on a top AAU team and played for a terrible Indy high school team. In a couple years, he will probably be a great college player.

As Butler gets to be a more prominent program, their recruiting will improve. But they aren't going to suddenly going to outrecruit IU, Purdue, and the top out of state programs (MSU, UK, Louisville, OSU, etc.) for whoever they want.

I agree with you completely.

Up until now, I've held the position that Butler shouldn't be considered as a prospective conference mate for Xavier. I held that position after their run last year. I don't anymore.

But it isn't because of back-to-back F4's, whether this one comes with a NC included. It's because they're moving forward with a $25 million renovation of Hinkle, which will make them much more legitimate AS A PROGRAM.

Can Butler compete head-to-head with a school like IU for top recruits? Can a small, private school in Indiana compete with that state's major land-grant university, which happens to have a tradition-rich program?

PROGRAM is one thing; remarkable tournament results - there is no other way to look at it than to conclude that Butler's two year, back-to-back achievement is remarkable - are another.

For now, we'll just have to respectfully disagree if you believe that Butler could ever have an ice cube's chance in hell of competing for the kind of recruits that the Hoosiers (even the school's nickname is Hoosiers) pursue.

It probably won't happen, unless Nova moves on football, but Butler would add to the conference mix if they keep tracking solidly with tournament participation with runs from time to time. If the BE seals up, especially thanks to Nova moving on BCS football, I would hope that Xavier would find a way to pull the plug on LaSalle and Fordham. I don't know how X would help to engineer that, but enough would be enough at that point.

Clean up the A10 as much as possible, including bringing in Butler, if they move forward with their investments. But stay sober about it: we'll all continue to have to work very hard for solid recruits to the extent we all choose to recruit against BCS schools.

[LA Muskie]

Butler in a way kind of got lucky. They have gone to back to back final 4's because everything aligned perfectly. When I say that it really did from the recruits to the games to the match up's to the close games that they had to have bounce their way, missed free throws and a foul 95 feet away from the basket with less than a second left. And when I say recruits I mean the 3 guys responsible for their success the last 2 years, well maybe 4 players. Ronald Nored had signed with Western KY then switched to Butler after Horn went to South Carolina. Gordon Hayward was an unknown who no one really recruited because they thought he was more of a tennis player. Matt Howard was close to signing with Xavier and Shelvin Mack blew up late and almost switched to Kentucky. Without those guys they are just an average bunch that is about the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Horizon league. Butler is good, well coached and very fortunate.
That may be true, but they have maximized their potential. Our best teams were certainly better talent-wise, yet we've never gotten to this point. They've done it twice. That's a big deal.

[paulxu]

Can Butler compete head-to-head with a school like IU for top recruits? Can a small, private school in Indiana compete with that state's major land-grant university, which happens to have a tradition-rich program?

Dash, for some reason I would have to think this same sort of comparison existed at one time for the Duke program looking at UNC. It can be done, but maybe you need tobacco money to do it. (Maybe pharmaceuticals in Indy?)

[GoMuskies]

Butler was right there for Zeller. Didn't get him away from IU, but they were right there.

[xavierj]

The whole NC State search seems weird and really nothing has been leaked other than guys supposedly getting raises and contract extensions for having their names associated with the opening. Could NC State already have Brad in the fold through a 3rd party or are they waiting to try to drop a boat load of money on him tomorrow morning?

[GoMuskies]

Stevens isn't taking that job. He can do a LOT better if he's patient.

[xavierj]

Stevens isn't taking that job. He can do a LOT better if he's patient.

I agree but NC State has to have something. They can't possibly screw this up and not set the program back another 20 years. Too much is at stake for them.

[xavier3]

Butler in a way kind of got lucky. They have gone to back to back final 4's because everything aligned perfectly. When I say that it really did from the recruits to the games to the match up's to the close games that they had to have bounce their way, missed free throws and a foul 95 feet away from the basket with less than a second left. And when I say recruits I mean the 3 guys responsible for their success the last 2 years, well maybe 4 players. Ronald Nored had signed with Western KY then switched to Butler after Horn went to South Carolina. Gordon Hayward was an unknown who no one really recruited because they thought he was more of a tennis player. Matt Howard was close to signing with Xavier and Shelvin Mack blew up late and almost switched to Kentucky. Without those guys they are just an average bunch that is about the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Horizon league. Butler is good, well coached and very fortunate.

Imagine if Crawford didn't transfer to us from IU, we would have been just a one and done last year....back to back final 4's as a 5 and 8 is not stars aligning for Butler

[xavierj]

Imagine if Crawford didn't transfer to us from IU, we would have been just a one and done last year....back to back final 4's as a 5 and 8 is not stars aligning for Butler

imagine if michael jordan would have been drafted by the nets. Wtf? Butler did very well and took advantage of their opportunity but the stars did align. The stars usually have to align. If you don't think the xavier kstate slug fest benefited Butler you are clueless.

[CinciX12]

Eh, I disagree. Nothing against Stevens, but I think the next Duke coach is going to come from in-house.

There have been very, very few assistant coaches under Coach K not fall flat on their face after taking a first chair somewhere else.

[XUFan09]

There have been very, very few assistant coaches under Coach K not fall flat on their face after taking a first chair somewhere else.

Agreed. There's no way that Duke of all places will hire a coach that hasn't proven himself as head coach somewhere else. There's just too much to risk for such a storied program. Stevens would be a good hire, as he seems to recruit the same kinds of guys (High IQ players who buy into the team mentality better that most of their classmates). Duke's recruits are just a higher caliber, obviously, but there are a lot of parallels.

[xavier3]

imagine if michael jordan would have been drafted by the nets. Wtf? Butler did very well and took advantage of their opportunity but the stars did align. The stars usually have to align. If you don't think the xavier kstate slug fest benefited Butler you are clueless.

Butler probably would have rather played us, ksu was rated higher... Didn't they beat the 1 seed cuse to get to elite 8?