Rules question...

[ReturnOfTheMack]

So I play in a Monday night men's league at a local gym. It's pretty competitive, most of the guys are good former high school players and there's even a couple former local college players that participate. There's a cash prize to the league champ so to us it's serious enough for us to give a shit. As far as I know the league abides by the official NCAA rulebook. Some of the officials are high school refs who do it to stay sharp and some are just guys looking for some extra cash. Some of them don't know a foul from a fowl. The situation in question occured at a critical juncture of a close game. The rule/violation in question is goaltending. Here's the scenario...

Player A steals the ball from Player B at approximately half-court. Player A has a break away lay-up with Player B (now on defense) following closely behind to contest the shot. Player A gets to the basket and lays the ball off the glass. The ball came off of the glass and then proceeded to hit the rim. After hitting the rim the ball went above the cylinder. As the ball hit the rim Player B (defender trailing the play) simultaneously slapped the backboard. Player B did not hit the ball. He didn't even really make an attempt at the ball as it had already make contact with the backboard. He just slapped the glass. The ball then proceeded to pop off of the rim and did not go through the basket. No goaltending was called. I swore to the ghost of James Naismith that the basket should have been ruled good. I found the NCAA rulebook online and there doesn't seem to be any mention of a player slapping the backboard while the ball is on/above the cylinder or coming off the glass as a violation of the goaltending rule... scroll to page 74-75 http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR11.pdf .

Any officials or self-proclaimed officials out there to clarify this for me? Am I wrong to have argued that it was goaltending or am I an asshole? Ok I know I'm an asshole but am I at least a rules adept asshole?

[kmcrawfo]

1. SLAPPING THE BACKBOARD.
The incidents of players slapping the
backboard are increasing throughout the country. The rules specify that
“intentionally slapping or striking the backboard” is a technical foul (10-3-5). The
spirit and intent of that rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to
him/herself or as a means of venting frustration. A player who strikes the
backboard in a legitimate attempt to block a try for goal should not be penalized.
Basket interference cannot be ruled in either of the above situations. Basket
interference only occurs if the ball is interfered with while in the cylinder above
the basket ring or by touching either the ball or any part of the basket while the
ball is on or within the basket (4-6).

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2) A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot
touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is
legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the
imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or
herself or another player.

3) The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is contacting the ball on its downward flight,
above the level of the rim, with a chance to go in. On most layups, the ball is going up after it contacts the
backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it is still on the way up and not in the imaginary
cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points
cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an
attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul.
When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor
is it a technical foul.

4) The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot pass over a rectangular
backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures.

[kmcrawfo]

More info than you asked for, but it seems pretty clear.

No goaltending.

Tech would have been possible.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

1. SLAPPING THE BACKBOARD.
The incidents of players slapping the
backboard are increasing throughout the country. The rules specify that
“intentionally slapping or striking the backboard” is a technical foul (10-3-5). The
spirit and intent of that rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to
him/herself or as a means of venting frustration. A player who strikes the
backboard in a legitimate attempt to block a try for goal should not be penalized.
Basket interference cannot be ruled in either of the above situations. Basket
interference only occurs if the ball is interfered with while in the cylinder above
the basket ring or by touching either the ball or any part of the basket while the
ball is on or within the basket (4-6).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot
touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is
legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the
imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or
herself or another player.

3) The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is contacting the ball on its downward flight,
above the level of the rim, with a chance to go in. On most layups, the ball is going up after it contacts the
backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it is still on the way up and not in the imaginary
cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference nor is it goaltending and points
cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an
attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul.
When a player simply attempts to block a shot and accidentally slaps the backboard it is neither a violation nor
is it a technical foul.

4) The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot pass over a rectangular
backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures.


I found this as well. These articles still don't completely address/satisfy my question though. It seems that the defensive player should've at least been hit with a technical foul because he definitely was slapping the glass out of frustration. What is not addressed here that occured was the force of which he slapped the backboard caused the entire goal to shake while the ball was on the rim and consequently the ball popped off of the rim and did not go through the basket. I can unequivocally say that the ball would have fallen through the cylinder if it weren't for the force caused upon the goal from the backboard being slapped. For those of you wondering how it could've made that much of an impact; he slapped the shit out of that thing. Like Ike on Tina.

[kmcrawfo]

I found this as well. These articles still don't completely address/satisfy my question though. It seems that the defensive player should've been at least been hit with a technical foul because he definitely was slapping the glass out of frustration. What is not addressed here that occured was the force of which he slapped the backboard caused the entire goal to shake while the ball was on the rim and consequently the ball popped off of the rim and did not go through the basket. I can unequivocally say that the ball would have fallen through the cylinder if it weren't for the force caused upon the goal from the backboard being slapped. For those of you wondering how it could've made that much of an impact; he slapped the shit out of that thing. Like Ike on Tina.

Still pretty straightforward.

No goaltending, period... Rules seem pretty clear on that.

It then is a judgement call by the official regarding the backboard slap.

Intentional backboard slap with no play on the ball/block attempt = Tech
Backboard slap with attempt for shotblock = no call

Seems it is up the official's judgement. No hard/fast rule there to be found.

Yao Ming can stand under the basket and slap/shake the backboard to death while people shoot thus making it impossible to hit anything. No goaltending will have taken place, but he obviously should be hit with a T.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Still pretty straightforward.

No goaltending, period... Rules seem pretty clear on that.

It then is a judgement call by the official regarding the backboard slap.

Intentional backboard slap with no play on the ball/block attempt = Tech
Backboard slap with attempt for shotblock = no call

Seems it is up the official's judgement. No hard/fast rule there to be found.

Yao Ming can stand under the basket and slap/shake the backboard to death while people shoot thus making it impossible to hit anything. No goaltending will have taken place, but he obviously should be hit with a T.

It seems you're right. After further research it appears that no goaltending/basket interference call can be made no matter what the circumstance if the defender never makes contact with the ball or rim. At best it should've been a technical foul but seemingly no basket should be awarded. I swore up and down that basket interference should've been called. I called the official everything but a white man. Oh well, in the words of Mike Posner; "guess i'm an asshole after all."

[HuskyMuskie]

Who won?

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Who won?

Not us. Lost by 2 which is exactly why this missed call, which appears to not have been missed, is sticking in my crawl.

[Masterofreality]

No goaltending.

Technical foul is at officials disgression.

[A10fan]

not us. Lost by 2 which is exactly why this missed call, which appears to not have been missed, is sticking in my crawl.

no excuses..... No explanations

[ReturnOfTheMack]

no excuses..... No explanations

Hahaha. Touche salesman. Honestly the loss didn't bother me nearly as much as I thought the call or lack thereof was in abject disregard to the rule. Obviously I was wrong but at the time I thought differently. I REALLY care about being right no matter what the cost, I'm an admitted narcissist.

[Masterofreality]

"Next play........."

[Backyard Champ]

I always thought slapping the backboard was a goal tending. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm surprised because there are a lot of times the backboard is slapped and it has an effect on the rim shaking, I figured that's why it would be called. Interesting.

[drudy23]

Where do you play?

[CinciX12]

I haven't even bothered to look this rule up for HS. I'm at the JV level still and those idiots can barely touch the net 9 times out of 10.

If it happens and I call it wrong causing a coach to flip out I'm giving his ass a technical for arguing with me too:D

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Where do you play?

Blue Ash Rec Center

[Kahns Krazy]

I would have 100% agreed with you on the floor. I guess I would have been wrong too.

[MADXSTER]

St Vivian Monday nights. Sometimes I make Barts on Wednesday nights.