Dayton Coaching Search

[Muskie]

I see this morning they are targeting Randy Bennett.

[Muskie]

Looks like GT had to pay 350k to UD for the buyout.

[Pete Delkus]

I see this morning they are targeting Randy Bennett.

A 50 year old dude from the left coast? Just on the surface it seems to be a big drop off from the recruiting standpoint. I don't know much about him, but he seems to have lived a vast majority of his basketball life West of the Rockies. He might be able to coach...but he would have to load his staff with some guys who have some Midwest connections.

[Muskie]

A 50 year old dude from the left coast? Just on the surface it seems to be a big drop off from the recruiting standpoint. I don't know much about him, but he seems to have lived a vast majority of his basketball life West of the Rockies. He might be able to coach...but he would have to load his staff with some guys who have some Midwest connections.

Yeah. I'm not sure I follow the logic either. But who knows. It's clear they didn't have a guy waiting in the wings (something X has been very fortunate to have the past two times).

[XU05and07]

I hope they hire someone over 5 foot...test the creativity of the Xavier faithful

[xubrew]

Looks like GT had to pay 350k to UD for the buyout.

That's ALL??? Wow. Considering it was such a lengthy contract I would have guessed the buyout to be more than that.

[xubrew]

A 50 year old dude from the left coast? Just on the surface it seems to be a big drop off from the recruiting standpoint. I don't know much about him, but he seems to have lived a vast majority of his basketball life West of the Rockies. He might be able to coach...but he would have to load his staff with some guys who have some Midwest connections.

Saint Mary's recruits from pretty much all over the world. Literally. They really don't have a recruiting base.

I love Randy Bennett as a coach. I have a completely different take. He doesn't rely on recruiting services or anything like that. He knows what he wants to do, and goes after the players that will help him do it, and pretty much gets the players he wants. To me, that is the definition of a good recruiter. Someone who knows what they want, and gets it, even if what they want isn't always covered by recruiting services and scouts.

That being said, why go to Dayton?? He's got a pretty good thing going where he is.

[Pete Delkus]

Never mind, I see his recruiting style.

http://media.baycitizen.org/uploaded/images/2011/3/randy-bennett-ii/lightbox/Bennett%20II.jpg

[xudash]

Paul Hewitt is available.

[Masterofreality]

I see this morning they are targeting Randy Bennett.

Yeah, like THAT will happen. :rolleyes:

[XUFan09]

Paul Hewitt is available.

Haha, that would be great :)

[muskiefan82]

With the end of the Harry Potter movie franchise this summer, Verne Shroyer will be looking for work...

447


Just a thought.

[PMI]

Never mind, I see his recruiting style.

http://media.baycitizen.org/uploaded/images/2011/3/randy-bennett-ii/lightbox/Bennett%20II.jpg

Awesome. Reps.

[XUglow]

I think they want someone that has played the game so he can relate to the players.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsGXJEiQ1LyxMHoo70u1TK-jrJzHUIra39YXPzbpD_5oUXR8E3

[waggy]

Bennett would be a smart hire. They should be able to beat St. Mary's in pay easily, but Moraga to Dayton??

[bobbiemcgee]

Henton and Gibson may bolt if they don't pick the right guy soon.

[GuyFawkes38]

For some reason, groce and boals strikes me as better hires than Bennett. They are younger, know the area better, and have more of an upside (although definitely riskier).

[SixFig]

For some reason, groce and boals strikes me as better hires than Bennett. They are younger, know the area better, and have more of an upside (although definitely riskier).

Shhhhhhhh don't give Dayton any good ideas.

Hiring one of those two and I might actually be worried about UD winning at Cintas...naaaah

[dc_x]

For some reason, groce and boals strikes me as better hires than Bennett. They are younger, know the area better, and have more of an upside (although definitely riskier).

Really? Bennett would be a homerun hire for UD. That guy took St. Mary's from the very bottom of D1 basketball and turned them into a top-50 program. They have won 25+ games and finished top-2 in their conference for 4 straight years.

You would want a guy like Jeff Boals who has no head coaching experience over Bennett? That seems crazy to me.

To me, the only risk with Bennett is that he is a west coast guy who has done a lot of recruiting in Australia. I'm not sure how he would recruit to Dayton.

[Masterofreality]

I think they should go after Kevin O'Neill.

The guy has proven that he doesn't mind relocating and has midwestern roots. ;)

[American X]

Looks like GT had to pay 350k to UD for the buyout.

100K per foot. Sounds about right.


As for a new coach, John Wooden's corpse isn't that cold.

[danaandvictory]

As for a new coach, John Wooden's corpse isn't that cold.

Zombie Wooden is actually at the top of N.C. State's list.

[whitesox]

Isiah Thomas might be interested. He has had such a high level of success everywhere he's been, he'd fit right in. Also, my middle school basketball coach is available, but I'm not sure Dayton would be a step up.

Dane Fife just signed an extension at IPFW, so we can rule him out.

[whitesox]

Paul Hewitt is available.

That would be fun. Alright, Georgia Tech, let's see whose coach is really worse!

[Blue Blooded-05]

For some reason, groce and boals strikes me as better hires than Bennett. They are younger, know the area better, and have more of an upside (although definitely riskier).

UD hiring Groce would certainly make things interesting. As an assistant here, many of us saw his potential and there was even a sizable contingent (myself included, I must admit) that wanted to give him a more serious look after Miller bolted. I'd have a hard time hating a Groce coached team. Does he still use the white boards?

Boals, on the other hand, should be pretty easy.... Goofy looking dude, not known for his X's and O's who gave Mack the "wait and see" in hopes of Archie Miller joining his brother in AZ and taking JD Weatherspoon with him to rot on OSU's bench.... Okay, okay... I can't confirm most of that stuff but the point is, it wouldn't be difficult to dislike him.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Boals, on the other hand, should be pretty easy.... Goofy looking dude, not known for his X's and O's who gave Mack the "wait and see" in hopes of Archie Miller joining his brother in AZ and taking JD Weatherspoon with him to rot on OSU's bench.... Okay, okay... I can't confirm most of that stuff but the point is, it wouldn't be difficult to dislike him.

Wouldn't be difficult to dislike him? Hell I already hate him. Dude looks like he has to be careful of getting within 1,000 ft. of an elementary school.

[X-band '01]

Looks like GT had to pay 350k to UD for the buyout.

Georgia Tech should have forced Dayton to eat the rest of his salary since they're in essence bailing them out from the Brian Gregory era. And this was supposed to be an economical hire for Georgia Tech based on what I've heard.

[GoMuskies]

Paul Hewitt is available.

Pretty sure Dayton would get by FAR the better of it in that deal.

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

I think they should go after Kevin O'Neill.

The guy has proven that he doesn't mind relocating and has midwestern roots. ;)

There is always Pat Kennedy.

[Cheesehead]

There is always Pat Kennedy.

They could rehire Oliver Purnell too!

[PM Thor]

I really, really think it's going to be Boals. I have nothing to base this upon really, but I think it's a good fit for the Fers. OSU assistant, moves over to dayton, stays in the region, on and on.

It kind of would suck, because I think he is pretty good. He will be daytonited though, so no worries.

I HATE dayton.

[blobfan]

Really? Bennett would be a homerun hire for UD. That guy took St. Mary's from the very bottom of D1 basketball and turned them into a top-50 program. They have won 25+ games and finished top-2 in their conference for 4 straight years.

You would want a guy like Jeff Boals who has no head coaching experience over Bennett? That seems crazy to me.

To me, the only risk with Bennett is that he is a west coast guy who has done a lot of recruiting in Australia. I'm not sure how he would recruit to Dayton.

I don't know about that. I imagine Dayton looks MUCH better from the other side of the world than it does up close.

[The_Mack_Pack]

Bennett would probably still be able to recruit out of Australia if he goes to Dayton. Majerus does it and he's in the middle of the country.

[Masterofreality]

Keith Dambrot? = Ron Everhart.

KD + RE= Poseur.

[ThePowerOfX]

Another rumor on UDPride is Bruiser Flint of Drexel....not sure I would be exactly thrilled as a UD fan with that hire either

[GuyFawkes38]

Dayton's AD told the DDN that he wanted a coach or assistant coach that has made it to the NCAA tourney and wins conference championships. That sets the bar high and seems to rule out of lot of coaches (definitely Billy Schmidt, definitely Groce, Flint (I think)).

[Masterofreality]

Dayton's AD told the DDN that he wanted a coach that makes it to the NCAA tourney and wins conference championships. That sets the bar high and seems to rule out of lot of coaches (definitely Billy Schmidt, Groce (I think), Flint (I think)).

Groce took Ohio U to the tournament and "upset(?)" that Beast Georgetown last year.

White boards don't work in the dump, however. They turn to black scum as soon as they're unpacked.

[XU-07]

Do you think they need the coach that can either turn it around quickly (top 4 in A10/NCAA at-large berth in two years) or a coach that may take a while (5 years to become semi-competitive)? If they get the later or another BG clone, then I think that they maybe a lost program for quite some time.

[GuyFawkes38]

Groce took Ohio U to the tournament and "upset(?)" that Beast Georgetown last year.

White boards don't work in the dump, however. They turn to black scum as soon as they're unpacked.

I think he's solid. But his season conference records have been average (7-9, 7-9, 9-7).

Edit: just looking over the quote again. He stated he wanted some successful during their conference season. So I think that rules out Groce.

Edit 2: actually, Flint would fit the profile.

[Masterofreality]

I think he's solid. But his season conference records have been average (7-9, 7-9, 9-7).

Edit: just looking over the quote again. He stated he wanted some successful during their conference season. So I think that rules out Groce.

Just the fact that he pushed Churchill Odia over Kyle Lowrey should eliminate his ass immediately. But, it is udump....

[SixFig]

Just the fact that he pushed Churchill Odia over Kyle Lowrey should eliminate his ass immediately. But, it is udump....

Odia would be a perfect fit for Dayton...highly touted, never developed.

[GuyFawkes38]

Just the fact that he pushed Churchill Odia over Kyle Lowrey should eliminate his ass immediately. But, it is udump....

Didn't know that. Wow, that set us back.

[xsteve1]

I believe Groce pulled his name out. He's probably got his sights set on a better situation. I don't believe Waters from CSU is interested either. Who the heck wants to relocate to Dayton.

[DC Muskie]

Didn't know that. Wow, that set us back.

No it didn't.

[The_Mack_Pack]

I heard Bruiser Flint is in the conversation now...(lol)

[Masterofreality]

I heard Bruiser Flint is in the conversation now...(lol)

I'm sure that obligatory phone call is on the way to Calamari.

He can shove another piker down another A-10 teams throats- like Kellogg.

[X-band '01]

Bruiser to Dayton would REALLY piss me off - he alone can jeopardize the Jimmy Carter streak with his style of play. I hated it that his UMass teams could regularly beat Xavier and accomplish nothing once Calipari's players graduated.

I think he's going to go home and take the Saint Joe's job once Martelli moves on, though.

[XU05and07]

Too bad Steve Lavin didn't wait one more year...he could have been the coach of the Dayton Fliers

[GoMuskies]

Too bad Steve Lavin didn't wait one more year...he could have been the coach of the Dayton Fliers

There's always Steve Lappas.

[MADXSTER]

Possible coaches that have been mentioned

Randy Bennett
Paul Hewitt
Jeff Boals
Kevin O'Neill
Isiah Thomas
Archie Miller
Pat Kennedy
Bruiser Flint
John Groce
Steve Lappas
Mick Cronin
Jimmy Carter

[Xman95]

I'm surprised the UD faithful haven't mentioned that Phil Jackson could be the next coach after he leaves the Lakers. Or perhaps they can lure Coach K or Brad Stevens to Dayton. Hell, maybe they'll just get Chris Mack. I mean they have passed us as a program so it would be a step up, right?

[xudash]

What if Gregory succeeds at GTech.

What if UD hires another JOB-type, driving the program into decade-long oblivion.

Muddy Meadows and Swampy Waters would end up committed - straight-jacket committed.

[GoMuskies]

Greg Kampe would be a very nice get for the Flyers.

http://detroitnews.com/article/20110401/SPORTS0203/104010339/1133/SPORTS/Dayton-job-tempts-Oakland-basketball-coach-Greg-Kampe

[SixFig]

Greg Kampe would be a very nice get for the Flyers.

http://detroitnews.com/article/20110401/SPORTS0203/104010339/1133/SPORTS/Dayton-job-tempts-Oakland-basketball-coach-Greg-Kampe


"The only place I'm leaving Oakland for is a place where I could win and win big. I'm talking national championships. I want to go to a place that has high expectations, a chance at getting to the Final Four for a shot at the national title. I think you could do that at Dayton."

Bahahaahahahahahahhahaha

He'll fit right in

[SixFig]

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5359/bildezu.jpg

Plus, check out the vest.

[GoMuskies]

If VCU and Butler can square off in the Final Four, Dayton could win a championship someday.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Trying to read between the lines, I think Matthew Graves from Butler could well be the guy. Goodman said Wojo was involved, then not involved. No way of knowing how close that was. But the fact that no real news is coming out leads me to believe they are waiting for someone that's still playing. That would likely mean there's a 0.0000001% chance it's Shaka and about a 99% chance it's Graves.

All signs are pointing toward him getting an offer pretty soon after Butler's run ends. Of course, someone else could take the job in an hour or something, but I doubt it. Looks like it's Graves' job to take or turn down.

[xavierj]

Trying to read between the lines, I think Matthew Graves from Butler could well be the guy. Goodman said Wojo was involved, then not involved. No way of knowing how close that was. But the fact that no real news is coming out leads me to believe they are waiting for someone that's still playing. That would likely mean there's a 0.0000001% chance it's Shaka and about a 99% chance it's Graves.

All signs are pointing toward him getting an offer pretty soon after Butler's run ends. Of course, someone else could take the job in an hour or something, but I doubt it. Looks like it's Graves' job to take or turn down.

Really Graves? That does not exactly scream big hire. Where does he recruit? I know Butler has had success but it is not like they tear it up recruiting. I think it is more just catching lightening in a bottle.

[XUFan09]

Butler does recruit well; they just recruit a specific type of player/person, and it seems to be working well for them. Their recruiting style just does not follow the traditional pattern of most schools at their level. It's not just "lightning in a bottle" when you make the Final Four two years in a row. Their program develops good players that play better as a team than most programs in the country.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Really Graves? That does not exactly scream big hire. Where does he recruit? I know Butler has had success but it is not like they tear it up recruiting. I think it is more just catching lightening in a bottle.

Really? Lightning in the bottle? Butler has been an outstanding program for the better part of 15 years, and Graves has been a part of it as a player and coach pretty much the whole time. There's a culture of winning and developing players and coaches that's very similar to Xavier. They've won or tied 5 straight regular season league titles. 3 at large bids in the last 8 years from the Horizon League, which is insanely tough to do. 2 Sweet 16s and now 2 Final Fours (and about 3 inches from a national title) over that same 8 year span, and he's been on the bench the entire time.

That's precisely the type of coach Dayton needs to go after. It may work, it may not. There's risk in everything. But to question him and say the system that he's been in for basically his entire adult life and career is lightning in a bottle? That's silly. Butler performs at an elite level. They flat out win basketball games.

Matthew Graves is a great candidate, one of the best assistants in the country. I'd love the hire. I'd take him over any head coach that's been rumored, except maybe Keith Dambrot. That would be a tough call.

[xavierj]

Really? Lightning in the bottle? Butler has been an outstanding program for the better part of 15 years, and Graves has been a part of it as a player and coach pretty much the whole time. There's a culture of winning and developing players and coaches that's very similar to Xavier. They've won or tied 5 straight regular season league titles. 3 at large bids in the last 8 years from the Horizon League, which is insanely tough to do. 2 Sweet 16s and now 2 Final Fours over that same 8 year span, and he's been on the bench the entire time.

That's precisely the type of coach Dayton needs to go after. It may work, it may not. There's risk in everything. But to question him and say the system that he's been in for basically his entire adult life and career is lightning in a bottle? That's silly. Butler performs at an elite level.

Matthew Graves is a great candidate. I'd love the hire.

To each his own. But it could be worse. I'm just saying becareful. Everyone thought Lickliter and Barry Collier were awesome too.

[XUFan09]

AdamtheFlyer, you just need to understand that on this board there is an undercurrent of jealousy or resentment towards Butler, since their program hasn't been as good as Xavier's this past decade (albeit still very good), but now they've been where Xavier has not (twice!). Xavier fans look at them and think, "That could have been us," especially since Xavier has knocked on the door two different times in Elite Eight appearances. So they try to justify Butler's presence with the luck that they have had or some other factors other than just giving credit where credit is due.

[LyonsIsFlyin]

AdamtheFlyer, you just need to understand that on this board there is an undercurrent of jealousy or resentment towards Butler, since their program hasn't been as good as Xavier's this past decade (albeit still very good), but now they've been where Xavier has not (twice!). Xavier fans look at them and think, "That could have been us," especially since Xavier has knocked on the door two different times in Elite Eight appearances. So they try to justify Butler's presence with the luck that they have had or some other factors other than just giving credit where credit is due.

Buck Futler, sure I'm jealous of their success, not jealous of their outrageously annoying fans. Go VCU!

[AdamtheFlyer]

To each his own. But it could be worse. I'm just saying becareful. Everyone thought Lickliter and Barry Collier were awesome too.

Those guys took bad jobs. Iowa and Nebraska don't give you the tools to be successful in the modern game. Iowa has been ok at times in the past, but the last 5-6 years they completely ignored the hoops program. Small budgets competing directly with some of the best programs in the history of basketball. Dayton gives you resources that, along with Xavier, are better than every A10 program and a much lower level of competition.

Collier returned to Butler as AD a few years ago. He's a smart guy and was a very good coach. Goes back to their culture. He's still a big reason why Butler is so successful.

[xavierj]

AdamtheFlyer, you just need to understand that on this board there is an undercurrent of jealousy or resentment towards Butler, since their program hasn't been as good as Xavier's this past decade (albeit still very good), but now they've been where Xavier has not (twice!). Xavier fans look at them and think, "That could have been us," especially since Xavier has knocked on the door two different times in Elite Eight appearances. So they try to justify Butler's presence with the luck that they have had or some other factors other than just giving credit where credit is due.

Huh? I like Butler and think they will win it all. I have no jealousy for them at all. I would rather them be in the final 4 then any so called major program. I just do not think that Graves would be a home run hire. Just because it is working at Butler does not mean it will automatically work at Dayton. I am not sure Dayton could survive trying to recruit Indy when you already have Xavier, Indiana, Purdue, ND, Butler and Ohio St. hammering that area. UC is starting to recruit there as well. Dayton will need someone who can recruit the east, Michigan, Ohio and a little in the south. Graves does not really have any in's in any of those area's.

[XUFan09]

Then I apologize. Generally the people who use the phrase "lightning in a bottle" in reference to Butler are trying to downplay their success (implicitly in relation to Xavier).

[xavierj]

Then I apologize. Generally the people who use the phrase "lightning in a bottle" in reference to Butler are trying to downplay their success (implicitly in relation to Xavier).

Not me at all. Butler has been to two straight final 4's. That is simply amazing and also it required good coaching, very hard work, decent to good players, unselfish players, a little luck and a lot of good bounces. There is a reason they have been underdog's in 9 straight NCAA tourney games. I love what Butler has done and I love that they are on Xavier's schedule. But when you look at Butler they are a small time program playing on the big time stage. They have poor facilities compared to most big time programs, they play in an old outdated gym, they do not have a ton of financial resources, play in a lower echelon conference (typically not in the top 10-15 conferences, they do not have a huge following and they do not recruit against major programs for the most part.

This Butler team lost 5 games in the Horizon conference. If they played in the Big East, ACC, Big 12 etc.. they most likely would not even be in the tournament. They are in the final 4 which is unreal but it just shows you that really anyone who gets in, unless you are a 16 seed, has a shot at the final 4. VCU is also in the final 4 and George Mason was in within thw last 6 years. Crazy but not impossible. The next step is for one of these teams (Xavier hopefully) is to win the whole freaking thing.

With that said i would be cautious if I was another program who thinks that they can copy Butler and duplicate the same success. Xavier coaches are more ready to compete big time at big time schools because they recruit already on the national stage against the so called major conferences. You look at Butler and it ain't like they are recruiting much against Indiana, Duke, Ohio St. Michigan St. Syracuse, Pitt etc.. Hell they really do not even recruit against Xavier much. They know where they are in the grand scheme of things.

[Cheesehead]

Really? Lightning in the bottle? Butler has been an outstanding program for the better part of 15 years, and Graves has been a part of it as a player and coach pretty much the whole time. There's a culture of winning and developing players and coaches that's very similar to Xavier. They've won or tied 5 straight regular season league titles. 3 at large bids in the last 8 years from the Horizon League, which is insanely tough to do. 2 Sweet 16s and now 2 Final Fours (and about 3 inches from a national title) over that same 8 year span, and he's been on the bench the entire time.

Yes, Butler is eveything that Dayton is not.

Maybe they can lure Mick Cronin away.

[West is Best]

AdamtheFlyer, you just need to understand that on this board there is an undercurrent of jealousy or resentment towards Butler, since their program hasn't been as good as Xavier's this past decade (albeit still very good), but now they've been where Xavier has not (twice!). .


I disagree with this statement - Top reasons X fans show resentment toward Butler:
1) The stopwatch incident
2) Lance McAllister
3) The 12/23/2008 game, a poorly officiated game where Miller got a technical which sealed the loss

Butler being good at basketball would fall well below these three.


So they try to justify Butler's presence with the luck that they have had or some other factors other than just giving credit where credit is due.
Did you see the ending to the ODU and Pitt games?? How can you not say Butler is lucky? Nobody is saying Butler is bad team, but they've been extremely lucky to get to this point.

[xsteve1]

Those guys took bad jobs. Iowa and Nebraska don't give you the tools to be successful in the modern game. Iowa has been ok at times in the past, but the last 5-6 years they completely ignored the hoops program. Small budgets competing directly with some of the best programs in the history of basketball. Dayton gives you resources that, along with Xavier, are better than every A10 program and a much lower level of competition.

Collier returned to Butler as AD a few years ago. He's a smart guy and was a very good coach. Goes back to their culture. He's still a big reason why Butler is so successful.

Not sure why Graves would want the UD job when he's a heartbeat away from the Butler job. I guess he could always coach UD for a couple of years and go back to Butler if or when Stevens leaves.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Did you see the ending to the ODU and Pitt games?? How can you not say Butler is lucky? Nobody is saying Butler is bad team, but they've been extremely lucky to get to this point.

I can say Butler is not lucky

Luck exists in games with no skill-- lotto, slot machines, bingo, Cash Explosion Double Play are all games of luck. Basketball is a game of skill. Over the course of an entire game there are too many shots, rebounds, loose balls, and calls that go both ways for one team to win by luck. Winners win. Period.

Butler is 9-1 in the past 2 NCAA Tournaments. In that time, they've been victorious over the following seeds: 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 9, 12, 13. They're 6-1 vs higher or equal seeds. That's too many games to be considered lucky.

Calling someone lucky is done when you're trying downplay someone's achievements or you're trying to cushion your own defeat. I'm a realist. Butler is a great team. Butler is presently a better program than Xavier. I hate saying it as much as you hate hearing it. There's only one way to change that.

[HuskyMuskie]

I can say Butler is not lucky

Luck exists in games with no skill-- lotto, slot machines, bingo, Cash Explosion Double Play are all games of luck. Basketball is a game of skill. Over the course of an entire game there are too many shots, rebounds, loose balls, and calls that go both ways for one team to win by luck. Winners win. Period.

Butler is 9-1 in the past 2 NCAA Tournaments. In that time, they've been victorious over the following seeds: 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 9, 12, 13. They're 6-1 vs higher or equal seeds. That's too many games to be considered lucky.

Calling someone lucky is done when you're trying downplay someone's achievements or you're trying to cushion your own defeat. Unfortunately, I'm a realist. Butler is a great team. Butler is presently a better program than Xavier. I hate saying it as much as you hate hearing it. There's only one way to change that.

This is the most realistic, down to earth, and for lack of a better word, perfect definition that I have seen on this board in regards to Butler. If we don't like playing second fiddle to Butler, like we will until we achieve Final Four status, change it.

[xsteve1]

I can say Butler is not lucky

Luck exists in games with no skill-- lotto, slot machines, bingo, Cash Explosion Double Play are all games of luck. Basketball is a game of skill. Over the course of an entire game there are too many shots, rebounds, loose balls, and calls that go both ways for one team to win by luck. Winners win. Period.

Butler is 9-1 in the past 2 NCAA Tournaments. In that time, they've been victorious over the following seeds: 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 9, 12, 13. They're 6-1 vs higher or equal seeds. That's too many games to be considered lucky.

Calling someone lucky is done when you're trying downplay someone's achievements or you're trying to cushion your own defeat. I'm a realist. Butler is a great team. Butler is presently a better program than Xavier. I hate saying it as much as you hate hearing it. There's only one way to change that.


This is the most realistic, down to earth, and for lack of a better word, perfect definition that I have seen on this board in regards to Butler. If we don't like playing second fiddle to Butler, like we will until we achieve Final Four status, change it.

Yep. That was a very truthful and well thought out post.

[West is Best]

I can say Butler is not lucky

Luck exists in games with no skill-- lotto, slot machines, bingo, Cash Explosion Double Play are all games of luck. Basketball is a game of skill. Over the course of an entire game there are too many shots, rebounds, loose balls, and calls that go both ways for one team to win by luck. Winners win. Period.


We're not talking about the course of an entire game... ODU & Pitt were decided by one possession. Florida went to overtime where Butler won by 3 (one possession).

So essentially 3 possessions decided 3 games, all of which went in favor of Butler. Butler is an excellent team, but they're not superhuman: to go 3 for 3 in those situations is luck. If Duke or Kansas did likewise, luck would still be a factor.

[xufan02]

Butler is LEGIT!!! They are so well coached, play extremely hard, and execute at the Highest level. They also have some very talented players.

[xavierj]

Butler is LEGIT!!! They are so well coached, play extremely hard, and execute at the Highest level. They also have some very talented players.

Yep and they are so good VCU missed 6 point blank pretty much wide open layups in the 2nd half. Butler is very good and very well coached but they are getting some good bounces right now or maybe they are so good the other team just gets so tight they miss wide open bunnies. Butler has 2 guys that would play a lot at Duke, UNC, UCONN, Arizona, Pitt, Texas, Ohio St. Purdue, etc... but they just win.

[LA Muskie]

Yep and they are so good VCU missed 6 point blank pretty much wide open layups in the 2nd half. Butler is very good and very well coached but they are getting some good bounces right now or maybe they are so good the other team just gets so tight they miss wide open bunnies. Butler has 2 guys that would play a lot at Duke, UNC, UCONN, Arizona, Pitt, Texas, Ohio St. Purdue, etc... but they just win.
Are you serious? Every game involves missed gimmes. You're just concentrating on them to support your point. Call it what you want, they are winners. And at the end of the day will be 1 of only 2 teams still standing.

[xnatic03]

Butler also missed 3-4 easy layups in the game. Posts that say things such as "Butler is lucky" and whatnot makes you seem like an ignorant fan pissed that your team is out of the tournament. You cannot rely solely on luck to make it to 2 straight NCAA finals.

[xavierj]

Are you serious? Every game involves missed gimmes. You're just concentrating on them to support your point. Call it what you want, they are winners. And at the end of the day will be 1 of only 2 teams still standing.

No I am a Butler fan when they are not playing X but I have never in my life witnessed a team that pretty much has had everything go right in 10 out of their last 11 games. If you don't believe me just re-watch the games. Against ODU they get a terrible shot and Matt Howard is there to clean up, Pitt misses a free throw to win it and they get a foul with less than a second left 95 feet from the basket, and last year Murray St. had them beat and they pull it out on a fluke. They are good but they have also been fortunate. Anyone who thinks they have not been fortunate is just not watching. They have went to 2 straight final 4's which is amazing but they should have lost to Murray St. and Old Dominion in the first round the past 2 years. Its a fine line.

[danaandvictory]

Pretending like luck isn't a part of sports is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Anyone questioning that needs to think for a second about the Xavier-Wofford game.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Archie Miller?

Schwade from Rivals tweets that sources say it's nearly a done deal.

[xavierj]

Archie Miller?

Schwade from Rivals tweets that sources say it's nearly a done deal.

Would be a great hire. He is a national name recruiter. Recruits know him and Sean. On the other hand if the Graves guy walked into a gym most high school kids outside of Indiana would not know him or even notice him other than the fact that he has an ugly mug.

[ZONACAT]

Archie Miller is a fantastic coach and will give X fans another reason to hate the Millers. Don't worry though because NC State will throw the kitchen sink at him in 2-3 years after their new coach bombs and than Dayton and Xavier will hate the Millers together. :)

[xsteve1]

Archie Miller to UD is my worst nightmare as an X fan. The guy will be a stud coach. UD will become a factor with him. Great hire.

[xsteve1]

Archie Miller is a fantastic coach and will give X fans another reason to hate the Millers. Don't worry though because NC State will throw the kitchen sink at him in 2-3 years after their new coach bombs and than Dayton and Xavier will hate the Millers together. :)

I don't know why NC State doesn't go ahead and hire him now.

[ZONACAT]

I don't know why NC State doesn't go ahead and hire him now.

I agree completely. Bunch of morons running that coaching search.....again.

[xavierj]

I agree completely. Bunch of morons running that coaching search.....again.

I don't think they want to hire an assistant coach.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Goodman is on it, too. Looks like it's all over but the press conference.

I'm happy. Touching the Matta and Miller tree, with a bit of Sendek. He's young, but he appears to be good. You know he'll bring in some good recruiters as well, them Miller boys know everyone.

[ZONACAT]

I don't think they want to hire an assistant coach.

That is an understatement, NC State wants to hire an "A" lister. Doesn't mean the "D" list is the right hire at this point.

I'd bet that Archie ends up being a better head coach than Gregg Marshall.

[jco17]

it seems as if Dayton has picked up their interest in Archie Miller and he is very much a candidate right now. The deal could very much be in place or very close.

[xsteve1]

Goodman is on it, too. Looks like it's all over but the press conference.

I'm happy. Touching the Matta and Miller tree, with a bit of Sendek. He's young, but he appears to be good. You know he'll bring in some good recruiters as well, them Miller boys know everyone.

Yep UD copying the Xavier template is the right way to go. Recruiting to the city of Dayton is tough though compared to what X has to offer.

[xavierj]

it seems as if Dayton has picked up their interest in Archie Miller and he is very much a candidate right now. The deal could very much be in place or very close.

Thanks for starting another thread on the Dayton coaching search. But Archie would be a good hire for UD.

[anXUfan]

Hope this doesn't somehow negatively impact Chris Mack's working relationship with Sean Miller. Or if it does, that it's not that big a deal anyway.

[xavierj]

That is an understatement, NC State wants to hire an "A" lister. Doesn't mean the "D" list is the right hire at this point.

I'd bet that Archie ends up being a better head coach than Gregg Marshall.

Or Mick Cronin

[The_Mack_Pack]

Wow, surprisingly good hire by Dayton. The coaching change worked out in their favor.

[xavierj]

Hope this doesn't somehow negatively impact Chris Mack's working relationship with Sean Miller. Or if it does, that it's not that big a deal anyway.

I think we need a few more UD coaching search threads. Chris and Sean will now hate each other.

[jco17]

Looks like it will be Archie Miller.

[jco17]

Thanks for starting another thread on the Dayton coaching search. But Archie would be a good hire for UD.

Sorry about that, it was moved to this thread anyway. lol.

[spazzrico]

Man this sucks for me. One of my best buds is an NC State diehard, and now I know he'll be rooting for UD. That just isn't cool at all.

[CleXU]

Ya I don't think Mack will be bouncing ideas of Miller (or vica versa) for at least a couple games a year now. Good hire by Dayton though... I'm kinda surprised though cause I thought I remember Sean not having a great deal of fondness for UD and wouldn't necessarily think he'd tell his brother to take the job. Its probably a different situation however when its an opportunity for your brother to take as opposed to when your in competition against another program.

[waggy]

Sean must not like his brother very much.

[GoMuskies]

Man this sucks for me. One of my best buds is an NC State diehard, and now I know he'll be rooting for UD. That just isn't cool at all.

It's going to be worse for your buddy than for you.

[xavierj]

Ya I don't think Mack will be bouncing ideas of Miller (or vica versa) for at least a couple games a year now. Good hire by Dayton though... I'm kinda surprised though cause I thought I remember Sean not having a great deal of fondness for UD and wouldn't necessarily think he'd tell his brother to take the job. Its probably a different situation however when its an opportunity for your brother to take as opposed to when your in competition against another program.

They don't exactly love Tucson.

[golfitup]

Ya I don't think Mack will be bouncing ideas of Miller (or vica versa) for at least a couple games a year now. Good hire by Dayton though... I'm kinda surprised though cause I thought I remember Sean not having a great deal of fondness for UD and wouldn't necessarily think he'd tell his brother to take the job. Its probably a different situation however when its an opportunity for your brother to take as opposed to when your in competition against another program.

Why would you believe anything Sean Miller use to say when he was coach at X?

[Blue Blooded-05]

STE-PHEN BALD-WIN (clap clap clap clap clap)
STE-PHEN BALD-WIN (clap clap clap clap clap)

[Espe]

Uhh, because it's well known that Sean hates (or maybe hated now) Dayton.

[Xman95]

I'm kinda surprised though cause I thought I remember Sean not having a great deal of fondness for UD and wouldn't necessarily think he'd tell his brother to take the job.


Uhh, because it's well known that Sean hates (or maybe hated now) Dayton.

Sean said and did a lot of things at X that turned out to be somewhat false/fake. I'm guessing his hate for UD simply went with the territory and was part of the role he had to play. Remember, he was willing to turn X into a Buick shortly after leaving.

[SixFig]

http://comicrelated.com/graphics/ArchieComicsLogo_sm.jpg

[golfitup]

Sean said and did a lot of things at X that turned out to be somewhat false/fake. I'm guessing his hate for UD simply went with the territory and was part of the role he had to play. Remember, he was willing to turn X into a Buick shortly after leaving.

To steal MOR's (and ultimately Marv Albert) post from a different thread,


"YES! And it counts!!!!!!"

[HuskyMuskie]

The ignorant meanderthals over at UDPride seem to dig the hire. Thoughts?

[Blue Blooded-05]

The ignorant meanderthals over at UDPride seem to dig the hire. Thoughts?

Interesting stat:
- When Sean was hired for his first head coaching job in 2004, he was 35 years old with 10 years as an assistant at 4 schools: Miami Oh, Pitt, NC State and Xavier.
- Archie is 32 with 6 years as an assistant at 3 schools: NC State, Ohio State and Arizona.

For comparison, when Sean was 32, he earned his first top assistant job when Matta brought him to Xavier. As a head coach, Sean did a helluva job getting that '05-'06 team to The Dance, but he really didn't hit his stride until year 3 (IMO)... and even then inexperience got the best of him-- not fouling OSU up 3.

Archie certainly has the bloodlines but with 4 years less experience than Sean (at their first HC job), I wonder if he is a prodigy or if he capitalizing early on his last name. If the ladder, I wonder how patient UD fans will be with him learning on the job.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Sean said and did a lot of things at X that turned out to be somewhat false/fake. I'm guessing his hate for UD simply went with the territory and was part of the role he had to play. Remember, he was willing to turn X into a Buick shortly after leaving.

Sean 100% hated Dayton with a passion up until tonight. Just look at the tweets from Mack and Brain Snow alluding to that. There is a well known story within the Xavier team and coaches that Dayton called up Arizona to try and get a home and home when Sean got there. Sean laughed and basically told them to go fuck themselves in response. He seriously disliked Gregory and the whole UD basketball program. Obviously I doubt he will hate them now with his brother coaching there. If Archie has some success at UD you can guarantee-damn-tee Sean will be telling him to head for greener pastures asap though.

[SixFig]

I would laugh if Archie changed his mind in the middle of the night after making some phone calls.

Hilarious

[gladdenguy]

Sean 100% hated Dayton with a passion up until tonight. Just look at the tweets from Mack and Brain Snow alluding to that. There is a well known story within the Xavier team and coaches that Dayton called up Arizona to try and get a home and home when Sean got there. Sean laughed and basically told them to go fuck themselves in response. He seriously disliked Gregory and the whole UD basketball program. Obviously I doubt he will hate them now with his brother coaching there. If Archie has some success at UD you can guarantee-damn-tee Sean will be telling him to head for greener pastures asap though.

He had to hate Dayton when he was here. He had to like Xavier when he was here.
After he left he could care less about either program. The guy is a clown.
Now I hate the family even more.

[xsteve1]

He had to hate Dayton when he was here. He had to like Xavier when he was here.
After he left he could care less about either program. The guy is a clown.
Now I hate the family even more.

I'm kind of agreeing. Sean could've advised his brother to hold out for something better and Sean knows the rivalry that X and UD have. I'm starting to think Sean could really care less about his experiences here at X.

[xavierj]

I'm kind of agreeing. Sean could've advised his brother to hold out for something better and Sean knows the rivalry that X and UD have. I'm starting to think Sean could really care less about his experiences here at X.

What exactly is Archie holding out for? Its not like assistants get big time gigs all of the time unless they are succeeding a coach at their current school. Archie would be dumb to pass up this opportunity. He gets back to the midwest and Ohio where he has recruited, will get to a a school that values basketball and will support him and he will get paid a nice sum.

[danaandvictory]

I'm kind of agreeing. Sean could've advised his brother to hold out for something better and Sean knows the rivalry that X and UD have. I'm starting to think Sean could really care less about his experiences here at X.

There is a segment of this fanbase that is obsessed with the belief that Sean Miller thinks about Xavier University every second of the day and that every action he takes is calculated to stick it to X. It's absolutely crazy.

For all we know, Sean could have counseled Archie not to take the Dayton job and he chose to anyway.

[Masterofreality]

If Archie has some success at UD you can guarantee-damn-tee Sean will be telling him to head for greener pastures asap though.

Yep.

One word- steppingstone.

One of the stones won't be XU though. His rowboat will be lost in the wash of the Flagship.

[xsteve1]

What exactly is Archie holding out for? Its not like assistants get big time gigs all of the time unless they are succeeding a coach at their current school. Archie would be dumb to pass up this opportunity. He gets back to the midwest and Ohio where he has recruited, will get to a a school that values basketball and will support him and he will get paid a nice sum.


He could've held out for a BCS job if he had stayed at UA another year or two. NC St. would've been smart to have hired him this year. What do they have to lose.

[anXUfan]

I think we need a few more UD coaching search threads. Chris and Sean will now hate each other.

There were no such threads on the mbb board when I started mine, and I almost never look here on the a10 one. I consider this hire pretty on topic for X basketball.

The Archie Miller hire could impact game planning, for example. You're now going to have 2 A10 teams essentially running the exact same system. Does that make what we do a little less unusual and a little easier for other A10 coaches to plan for? It could also impact recruiting. To the extent that Sean and Chris ever talked about recruits (not sure they did or it's even allowed, but doesn't seem too far-fetched), X may no longer benefit as much from those conversations.

Maybe it's no different than it would have been for any other coach UD could have hired, but I'm not so sure.

[bobbiemcgee]

The ignorant meanderthals over at UDPride seem to dig the hire. Thoughts?

His wife is pretty hot.

[PMI]

Pretending like luck isn't a part of sports is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Anyone questioning that needs to think for a second about the Xavier-Wofford game.

Completely agree. People compare X and Butler too much on this board. If we said dayton won a lucky game nobody would dispute it. Butler has been as good as any team in this tournament just like last year. They have also had good fortune in the majority of their games in the two tournaments. That's a hell of a formula for success. Great team + Great luck = Tournament Success. Is this really surprising? There's no bitterness to it whatsoever. UConn has had to catch breaks too like Arizona missing two open threes at the end of the Elite 8 game. If luck isn't your favorite word, call it fortune, breaks, bounce of the ball, or whatever, but it EXISTS! It is fact.

As for Archie Miller, fuck that flyer. I can't wait for him to go 0-5 at Cintas before leaving for another school. Sean's lesser little brother is the enemy. It may very well be a good hire for dayton, but we'll see. I wish him nothing but the worst, and hope he gets that piece of shit program put on probation before he's done at that dump.

[jco17]

Yep.

One word- steppingstone.

One of the stones won't be XU though. His rowboat will be lost in the wash of the Flagship.

Absolutely agree. Sean doesn't like Dayton at all. It's a major head coaching job and a great opportunity for Archie because of the area. He's got great ties in that area and has a good chance to be successful. It's a stepping stone to a better program.

[jco17]

He could've held out for a BCS job if he had stayed at UA another year or two. NC St. would've been smart to have hired him this year. What do they have to lose.

Debbie Yow is an elitist and thinks her program can do way better than Archie. She's a moron of course and thinks she can just buy off a great coach. Well the NC State job hasn't been relevant since before I was born in the 80's. Current recruits know very, very little about NC State. She's after Shaka Smart, but he only has proven himself this year. His team barely made the tournament. What if they would have been left out? That would have been the case if it hadn't expanded.

Can Smart recruit at a high level? Who knows, most of those kids belonged to Anthony Grant. Shaka is every bit as much a risk as Archie. She could of had Archie for cheaper most likely. I think UD made a phenominal hire, but he doesn't plan on making a career of being a Dayton Flyer.

[xsteve1]

Debbie Yow is an elitist and thinks her program can do way better than Archie. She's a moron of course and thinks she can just buy off a great coach. Well the NC State job hasn't been relevant since before I was born in the 80's. Current recruits know very, very little about NC State. She's after Shaka Smart, but he only has proven himself this year. His team barely made the tournament. What if they would have been left out? That would have been the case if it hadn't expanded.

Can Smart recruit at a high level? Who knows, most of those kids belonged to Anthony Grant. Shaka is every bit as much a risk as Archie. She could of had Archie for cheaper most likely. I think UD made a phenominal hire, but he doesn't plan on making a career of being a Dayton Flyer.

Agree Shaka could be the next Stan Heath. He's done basically nothing since coaching Kent St. to the elite 8.

[LA Muskie]

He could've held out for a BCS job if he had stayed at UA another year or two. NC St. would've been smart to have hired him this year. What do they have to lose.
The universe of Big 6 jobs that have gone to assistants without head coaching experience and weren't promoted from within is very, very, very small.

[LA Muskie]

Absolutely agree. Sean doesn't like Dayton at all. It's a major head coaching job and a great opportunity for Archie because of the area. He's got great ties in that area and has a good chance to be successful. It's a stepping stone to a better program.
Miller didn't like Dayton under Gregory mainly didn't like Gregory. I doubt he had much of an opinion one way or the other as an institution. And regardless, he's smart enough to know that this is about as good as they come for a 1st HC opportunity for a 32 year old assistant with 6 years of coaching experience.

[LA Muskie]

Pretending like luck isn't a part of sports is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Anyone questioning that needs to think for a second about the Xavier-Wofford game.
Pretending that luck isn't a part of sports is ridiculous. But pretending that Butler is in the NCAA championship game for the 2nd straight year primarily because of luck is equally asinine -- and is rooted in nothing but jealousy.

[LA Muskie]

Hope this doesn't somehow negatively impact Chris Mack's working relationship with Sean Miller. Or if it does, that it's not that big a deal anyway.
I doubt it will. From all I've read, they are very close friends. Despite what folks may like to think about Sean, I seriously doubt he'd dump that friendship. It will, however, be awkward for both Mack and Archie when we play one another, I suspect.

[PMI]

Pretending that luck isn't a part of sports is ridiculous. But pretending that Butler is in the NCAA championship game for the 2nd straight year primarily because of luck is equally asinine -- and is rooted in nothing but jealousy.

I'm not sure I've detected that tone from anyone, at least not in any serious posts (maybe "Screw those lucky bastards" or something.) Butler has played almost perfectly, but even so, their back to back final game appearances have featured a high number of big breaks. And yes, I think we're all jealous of that, seeing as to how all other fans of programs want to be where they are now. When the day comes that we make our Final Four, we'll probably look back on a lucky moment or two as well. Probably not quite as many as Butler, but you never know!

Seriously, I don't get why some people are so defensive about Butler being called lucky. Nobody says they suck and they're lucky. They're playing awesome basketball and having luck on their side too. It's like they're a team of destiny. I think we'd all take that in a heartbeat. I do think the run will come to an end tomorrow though. Kemba Walker just doesn't allow himself to be denied.

[kyxu]

Seriously, I don't get why some people are so defensive about Butler being called lucky.

If a talking head from ESPN called Xavier's run of success "lucky," sit back and see the kind of reaction you'd get on this board. Calling the reaction "defensive" I'm sure would be quite an understatement.

I think Butler's play has been far from perfect in this tournament, but they make up for that imperfection by playing very, very hard. They are tenacious. They actually shot worse than VCU yesterday, but out-rebounded them by about 20, which was a huge difference inside. Same situation with Florida. It's not like the basketball was just bouncing into their hands without them working for it. They were always in position.

This isn't luck, that's just playing with discipline. When you play hard and with discipline, you'd be amazed at how often the ball tends to "bounce" your way.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://projects.daytondailynews.com/cache/galleries/Sports/UD/040311archiemiller/

[drudy23]

http://projects.daytondailynews.com/cache/galleries/Sports/UD/040311archiemiller/

Is this out of left field?

Well...let the little brother jokes begin.

[PMI]

If a talking head from ESPN called Xavier's run of success "lucky," sit back and see the kind of reaction you'd get on this board. Calling the reaction "defensive" I'm sure would be quite an understatement.

I think Butler's play has been far from perfect in this tournament, but they make up for that imperfection by playing very, very hard. They are tenacious. They actually shot worse than VCU yesterday, but out-rebounded them by about 20, which was a huge difference inside. Same situation with Florida. It's not like the basketball was just bouncing into their hands without them working for it. They were always in position.

This isn't luck, that's just playing with discipline. When you play hard and with discipline, you'd be amazed at how often the ball tends to "bounce" your way.

It's absolutely a combination of both. Getting fouled with 0.1 second left in a game you 100% about to lose is luck. It just is. No amount of hard play can cause that boneheaded Pitt mistake. Catching that break AFTER you put them on the line for the lead with under a second left is unheard of; the kind of luck you just don't see very often. Yes, that's the most extreme example of their luck, but then again, it's probably the luckiest thing I've seen all tournament. If we had been so lucky when we played Pitt two years ago who knows what the 2009 banner in Cintas might read today.

And I agree with you that Xavier fans would be upset if ESPN talking heads called us lucky, because they're getting upset when we're calling one of our rivals (IMO) lucky! Xavier fans are very much a defensive bunch. As far as perfect play, I don't mean that they're making all their shots or anything, but I do think they're playing about as well as they're capable of. You're right about their discipline and hard play, but if you watched this team play all year I'm not sure how you can say they're paying "far from perfect" at this time, because they're doing everything right. As far as your last sentence, Butler is not the only team that played hard and disciplined this tournament. Hell, I thought Michigan played extremely hard and disciplined against Duke, but they got bounced. The Butler Bulldogs are not in their second straight title game based just on hard, disciplined play. They could have lost either of their first two games basically on the flip of a coin in my opinion, and I watched enough of both games to stand by that. I'm not sure you could argue that they got the worst of what VCU has offered in this tournament. It's a combination of everything.

[Muskied]

You make your own luck. If Justin Cage hits a FT...or Derrick Brown's foot stays in bounds....Xavier may have been the lucky one in the final 4. Keep in mind, Butler has won 16 tourney games the past 10 years...they've been on the other end of the luck as well. The past 2 years, they have gotten it to go their way...and that's what you have to do to win a championship. Do you need to be fortunate? Absolutely....you also need to put yourself in position to make your own luck.

[SixFig]

You make your own luck.

Adding on to this point, in the ODU Butler game Matt Howard got that rebound putback to win because he didn't give up on the play, didn't get caught out of position, was always hustling.

You make your own luck. You won't see me trashtalking Butler until you see XU in the championship game.

[CinciX12]

Dayton is out of their damn minds. Wabler is totally insane. Or at least a liar. Probably a little of both.

This is the result of his 'national search'?

Way beyond pathetic.

Guy has no experience at all. You'd think they would have been hesitant to go that route with their recent troubles.

This has potential to be Brian Gregory redux. Seriously what about a guy who was given his shot by his brother seem like a good idea?

[chico]

Dayton is out of their damn minds. Wabler is totally insane. Or at least a liar. Probably a little of both.

This is the result of his 'national search'?

Way beyond pathetic.

Guy has no experience at all. You'd think they would have been hesitant to go that route with their recent troubles.

This has potential to be Brian Gregory redux. Seriously what about a guy who was given his shot by his brother seem like a good idea?

Well, even though it's his first job, their new coach learned under some pretty good coaches - Miller, Matta and Sendek. Kind of like our last two previous coaches. Yes, they have had bad luck with assistants - and I've even said they should hire a head coach - but he comes from a pretty good pedigree. Now, I'm not saying he's Mack, but for Dayton it's a pretty good hire, especially considering Gregory leaving caught them off guard.

[danaandvictory]

Guy has no experience at all.

The last four Xavier head basketball coaches had a combined total of two years' college head coaching experience prior to taking the XU job.

[chico]

The last four Xavier head basketball coaches had a combined total of two years' college head coaching experience prior to taking the XU job.

Actually, the last five. This was Gillen's first head coaching job as well.

[XU 87]

Actually, the last five. This was Gillen's first head coaching job as well.

The last 6. Staak was an assistant as well.

[DC Muskie]

I have no idea if this is a good hire. He certainly has good genes.

Dayton is certainly taking a gamble, something I thought they wouldn't do. He's young, but it's a young man's game, and if he can get the players there, then coaching becomes a little easier.

I certainly hope we keep beating their ass.

[XU 87]

I just think it's sort of ironic that UD hired our ex-coach's little brother.

[DC Muskie]

I just think it's sort of ironic that UD hired our ex-coach's little brother.

Yeah, I mean a part of me chuckled.

it's weird because I have never seen his name attached to any other job. Have anyone else seen this? And it looked like they approached him. So they wanted that bloodline.

Anybody who actually prefers to called Archie is got to be a little strange.

[muskiefan82]

Does this make Dayton Xavier's Archie-Rival?

[jco17]

I have no idea if this is a good hire. He certainly has good genes.

Dayton is certainly taking a gamble, something I thought they wouldn't do. He's young, but it's a young man's game, and if he can get the players there, then coaching becomes a little easier.

I certainly hope we keep beating their ass.

I will tell you that he's very well thought of nationally. This is not considered a bad hire, nor a rushed hire. He was one of the top assistants in the country. He was gonna get a head coaching gig, it was just a matter of time. He's a great recruiter. He's recruited in that pipeline very well before and has solid ties in that area. It may take a couple years to get Dayton to where it needs to be, but when he does he may be lucky enough to have another job open up so he can leave.

Archie was the Associate HC at Arizona under Miller and was very hands on. He's very good X's and O's so he's not just a recruiter. Whit is taking Archie's spot as Associate HC. It's gonna be extremely difficult to make a hire as good as Archie for the open spot. Dayton got a really good coach. I hate that it was Archie. I really like Archie, but I'm still not rooting for Dayton.

[CinciX12]

I will tell you that he's very well thought of nationally. This is not considered a bad hire, nor a rushed hire. He was one of the top assistants in the country. He was gonna get a head coaching gig, it was just a matter of time. He's a great recruiter. He's recruited in that pipeline very well before and has solid ties in that area. It may take a couple years to get Dayton to where it needs to be, but when he does he may be lucky enough to have another job open up so he can leave.

Archie was the Associate HC at Arizona under Miller and was very hands on. He's very good X's and O's so he's not just a recruiter. Whit is taking Archie's spot as Associate HC. It's gonna be extremely difficult to make a hire as good as Archie for the open spot. Dayton got a really good coach. I hate that it was Archie. I really like Archie, but I'm still not rooting for Dayton.

The same people that say he is a good hire, think that Brian Gregory is a good hire at Georgia Tech. The national media is so full of crap that means literally nothing.

[LA Muskie]

The same people that say he is a good hire, think that Brian Gregory is a good hire at Georgia Tech. The national media is so full of crap that means literally nothing.
We're all talking heads. Some of us just have much taller soap-boxes. Who the hell knows how it's going to turn out. That's why they actually play the games...

[CinciX12]

We're all talking heads. Some of us just have much taller soap-boxes. Who the hell knows how it's going to turn out. That's why they actually play the games...

I guess my point was that very, very few media say a hire is bad. It is difficult for them to get interviews and etc in the future if the coach can read articles from the guy saying how he is surprised he can tie his shoes in the morning.

[DC Muskie]

Archie could shit gold, he still has to show he can coach. I appreciate jco's insight on Archie's bio, but they fact remains, he is going to a place to run the show. A place he doesn't know much about. The perspective changes when you move one seat down.

Like I said, Dayton went outside their stated goal in this process. Maybe that was the plan all along. Who knows how it will turn out, but it's good to know that even though jco is Sargent of Arms of Archie Miller Fan Club, he is still not going to root for Dayton.

I'll be interested to see who he brings in as assistant coaches. Since he is so well respected nationally, it should be pretty easy for him to land top class talent.

[DoubleD86]

I guess my point was that very, very few media say a hire is bad. It is difficult for them to get interviews and etc in the future if the coach can read articles from the guy saying how he is surprised he can tie his shoes in the morning.

I don't know, people seemed to be pretty open about thinking Haith was a bad hire at Mizzou and Kruger not being a great hire at Oklahoma...

[AdamtheFlyer]

Like I said, Dayton went outside their stated goal in this process.

They absolutely did not. The stated goals were: A coach that has experience competing for league titles and NCAA tourney success. That's it.

Archie Miller was one of the first people to get a call. He was the only person asked to do a second interview. Pretty clear he was one of if not the top target all along. He's worked under great coaches in Sendek (who has a ridiculously strong coaching tree), Matta and his brother (two other Sendek guys). He fits everything Wabler was looking for publicly and privately.

[DC Muskie]

Sorry Adam I thought the AD stated he wanted a guy with head coaching experience.

It's interesting how Archie is this up and comer, and yet no one had a bead on him. His name was never mentioned for the Dayton job, or any job for that matter that I can find.

But congrats on the AD for getting his top guy and keeping everyone at bay as to whom that actually was. Hopefully Dayton can improve on their 9th place finish in the A-10 and you've got to respect a leader who recognizes that needs to improve.

[jco17]

Archie could shit gold, he still has to show he can coach. I appreciate jco's insight on Archie's bio, but they fact remains, he is going to a place to run the show. A place he doesn't know much about. The perspective changes when you move one seat down.

Like I said, Dayton went outside their stated goal in this process. Maybe that was the plan all along. Who knows how it will turn out, but it's good to know that even though jco is Sargent of Arms of Archie Miller Fan Club, he is still not going to root for Dayton.

I'll be interested to see who he brings in as assistant coaches. Since he is so well respected nationally, it should be pretty easy for him to land top class talent.

No, I'm no GD rooting for Dayton, they can suck it. lol. I'm an X fan too. This will be the second team Archie has coached at that I hate. ASU was the other. He's already made a really good hire at assistant. This is a write up from Andy Katz about the asst coach hire.

"Archie Miller's decision to hire Kevin Kuwik as an assistant at Dayton will go down as one of his best during his career as a head coach with the Flyers. Kuwik was the video coordinator for Ohio State the past two seasons under Thad Matta. I have documented many times what Kuwik has done in his career, from serving two tours in Iraq with the Indiana National Guard while an assistant at Ohio to his best work, helping change commuter airline legislation after the tragic death of his girlfriend Lorin Maurer and the other victims on Continental Flight 3407 from Newark to Buffalo two years ago. Matta's decision to have the Buckeyes wear 3407 patches the past two years to honor the victims was one of the best gestures I've seen in my two decades of covering the sport. It was all class. Ohio State will miss Kuwik, but he deserved a chance to be a full-time assistant. Few will work harder. Dayton got better the moment Kuwik got the job."~Andy Katz

[DC Muskie]

I swear nothing changes in Dayton. It's the offseason and Dayton is leading the world not only in head coach hires but assistants as well.

[Masterofreality]

No, This is a write up from Andy Katz about the asst coach hire.

"Archie Miller's decision to hire Kevin Kuwik as an assistant at Dayton will go down as one of his best during his career as a head coach with the Flyers." -Andy Katz


I swear nothing changes in Dayton. It's the offseason and Dayton is leading the world not only in head coach hires but assistants as well.

I believe that Andy Katz also called former Midget Associate Head Coach Billy Schmidt one of the best assistants in College basketball. He also called him a "Head Coach in waiting."

Mr. Schmidt is still waiting- after being an assistant for over 10 years. I don't even know where he is now.

[XUFan09]

The same people that say he is a good hire, think that Brian Gregory is a good hire at Georgia Tech. The national media is so full of crap that means literally nothing.

Actually, there's disagreement on that, even specifically at ESPN. Jay Bilas is the obvious example of someone calling it a "good hire," but there are others there that describe it as a head-scratcher, to say the least.