The Sean Miller Appreciation Thread

[nuts4xu]

Great win for Arizona over Duke last night. Sean Miller remembers Thad Matta's mistake in not getting Myles out of the 2004 game fast enough. He was able to avenge our loss to Duke in the Final 5.

Nice to see another one of our former coaches move on and succeed.

I'd love to see Miller play Matta in the final 4. Gladdenguy's head may explode!

Xavier is the cradle of coaches!

[Muskie]

I know this will not be a popular opinion. But I hope Arizona wins the whole damn thing. I don't think anything Miller does at Arizona takes away anything we are trying to do here.

I also think Miller could have won a title here two seasons ago, had he stayed put (and assuming D. Brown would have stayed as well).

[LutherRackleyRulez]

He was able to avenge our loss to Duke in the Final 5.



nuts,


Sorry....I, wholeheartedly, don't buy your take @ all!!!


Didn't see any XU ballers puttin' a true

BEATDOWN on the dukies last night....

[CinciX12]

So you want Miller to say to a national audience he cant win a national title here but he could at Arizona, then go and win that national championship in a year we lose a second round game.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Absolutely no sense. It makes us look bad. He insulted our program.

I want Miller to win the national title the year after X does. And not a damn year before it.

Seriously I think some of you are absolutely insane.

[xavierj]

Sean Miller is a great coach and I think he was born to be a coach. I think Sean would have won a national championship and I think he believes he could have as well at Xavier. What he said in his press conference was to justify a reason for leaving. The real reason he left was because he was going to make about $1.5 mill per season more at Zona than at Xavier and he felt he could also win at Zona. In my opinion what happened was that he wanted to come back to Xavier and he was trying to get them to sweeten the pot. I think he could not believe that Xavier would not step up to the plate so he changed his mind.

He was making $625,000 in salary at Xavier and with perks, Nike etc... it was probably closer to $900,000. I think Sean felt that Xavier should just jump it to $1.5 total and lets get on with it. I think Xavier probably offered a lot less and basically told him to go fly a kite. There is a reason he said he was staying and then changed his mind a few hours later. I truly think Xavier is who changed his mind.

[drudy23]

It's not like what he said wasn't true. It is "easier" to win a National Title at Arizona. I don't know if "easier" is the right word...but they've been to Final Fours and won championships.

We've never even been there. So....

[CinciX12]

Sean Miller is a great coach and I think he was born to be a coach. I think Sean would have won a national championship and I think he believes he could have as well at Xavier. What he said in his press conference was to justify a reason for leaving. The real reason he left was because he was going to make about $1.5 mill per season more at Zona than at Xavier and he felt he could also win at Zona. In my opinion what happened was that he wanted to come back to Xavier and he was trying to get them to sweeten the pot. I think he could not believe that Xavier would not step up to the plate so he changed his mind.

He was making $625,000 in salary at Xavier and with perks, Nike etc... it was probably closer to $900,000. I think Sean felt that Xavier should just jump it to $1.5 total and lets get on with it. I think Xavier probably offered a lot less and basically told him to go fly a kite. There is a reason he said he was staying and then changed his mind a few hours later. I truly think Xavier is who changed his mind.

Could be.

But try to defend him taking people signed to X on LOIs (I know that isn't a huge deal) and comparing us to a rather crappy car. Although they have just recently learned they can put a turbo in one.

He insulted us. It makes sense to not wish him ill will. But it doesn't make sense to wish him well either.

[nuts4xu]

He might have said a few of the wrong things, but he did one hell of a job his 8 years working at Xavier. Words Shmurds. He was trying to sell himself to the AZ fans, and got out over his skis a bit. I have done the same thing myself a few times. I'm over it with Sean.

Part of the reason we have been successful over the years has been our ability to hire great young coaches. So far, we have not seen one of these young guys stay and continue to build what they started. Yet, we continue to thrive and are in the middle of one of the greatest stretches of basketball we have had in our history.

The past 10 years we have made the NCAA's 9 times, including 2 elite 8's, 2 sweet 16's, 3 year in the second round, and we lost twice in the 1st round. Miller was a big part of those great seasons.

I must say, I am not one to hold a grudge against people in general. I get over things rather easily when other people still have hard feelings.

So for me, I see more reason to celebrate the success of Sean Miller and Thad Matta than to continue to crush them for leaving our program in the manner they did.

[gladdenguy]

I'm sorry....as a die hard Xavier fan I hate to read things like this today (I posted the same thing in another thread)......it really makes me sick.

I remember how torn Sean Miller was about leaving XU 2 years about but Coach Cal convinced he could win title at UA easier. Cal was right. Fran Fraschilla on Twitter.....@franfraschilla



I just don't understand as a Xavier fan how you could be happy about Sean Miller going somewhere else and doing what he sought out to do...and basically said he COULDN'T do at Xavier. It makes me ill.

I guess everybody has different opinions. Don't get me wrong Nuts....I love you...but I hope UConn pounds em.

[xavierj]

I'm sorry....as a die hard Xavier fan I hate to read things like this today (I posted the same thing in another thread)......it really makes me sick.

I remember how torn Sean Miller was about leaving XU 2 years about but Coach Cal convinced he could win title at UA easier. Cal was right. Fran Fraschilla on Twitter.....@franfraschilla



I just don't understand as a Xavier fan how you could be happy about Sean Miller going somewhere else and doing what he sought out to do...and basically said he COULDN'T do at Xavier. It makes me ill.

I guess everybody has different opinions. Don't get me wrong Nuts....I love you...but I hope UConn pounds em.

How can anyone hope Jim Calhoun wins anything? That guy is a cheating scum bag that needs to eat a bag of dicks.

[CinciX12]

It. Makes. Xavier. Look. Bad.

Just like gladdenguy showed us, the headline isn't how well Miller is doing at U of A. It is how smart he was to leave X.

Seriously this is the least complicated thing in the world I feel like. Unless we want to be absolutely crucified by the national media I don't see how we want a U of A/OSU final four game. The whole damn thing will be about how smart they were to leave Xavier.

Doesn't that just sound like so much fun?!?!?!

[MADXSTER]

He was making $625,000 in salary at Xavier and with perks, Nike etc... it was probably closer to $900,000. I think Sean felt that Xavier should just jump it to $1.5 total and lets get on with it. I think Xavier probably offered a lot less and basically told him to go fly a kite.

Let me be the first to tel you that your thinking is incorrect. Bobo actually was able to counter offer around 1.5 to 1.7 area before Miller left. Bobo worked his butt off with donors to make this happen. Alot of people in the Xavier community believed if Miller stayed Xavier was FF bound.

[Lamont Sanford]

As sleazy as Calhoun is, I will still be pulling for Kemba Walker and the UConn Huskies to pound Miller's Wildcats.

[nuts4xu]

I just don't understand as a Xavier fan how you could be happy about Sean Miller going somewhere else and doing what he sought out to do...and basically said he COULDN'T do at Xavier. It makes me ill.



I think Sean actually believed he could win a title here. He probably said that far more times than he said we couldn't to the AZ fans. I haven't talked to the man, nor do I know what he was thinking. But I feel he was reluctant to leave Xavier, and his statement about it being easier to win at Arizona was merely one of the things he told himself so he felt better about taking the job for the big raise.

Whether he feels it is true or not, I still have no doubt we are on track for a final four, and to compete for a National Championship with Chris Mack as our HC. Mack was helped along the way by Sean Miller, and Mack has moved this program into the Chris Mack era flawlessly.

No matter what Sean said or did when he left, he was a great coach when he was here, and is a great coach in Arizona. I would rather it be Xavier playing in the elite 8, but there will be at least a few mentions of our program during most every game he coaches. Xavier can't put a price on those "free mentions".

[Ledgewood]

I really really really wanted Arizone to lose last night. Duke screws me over even when they lose.

This issue is definitely one that splits the populus in half, and you can put me on the bitter side. All that is happening with him succeeding is showing coaches how its better to move on from Xavier. I don't want that. Not at all. Putting aside all the angry jilted ex-lover-type feelings, it is just in no way good for us to have these jerks succeed elsewhere. All it's doing is showing the world that we aren't worthy of the best coaches and that we are a Cinderella run Elite 8 team at best. Shine that noise. I want to be better than these guys who thought think that they're going from a Buick to a Lexus. I am pretty sure there's no way I can be convinced otherwise.

[KingCole]

I want Arizona to lose as well. It makes Xavier look bad as others have said when everyone will pile on with the, "See he made the right decision. He'd never win at that level at Xavier," comments. The Fran Fraschilla tweet will just be the tip of the iceberg if Arizona and OSU face off in the Final Four. I appreciate the job Miller did while he was at Xavier but he's no longer with Xavier he's a competitor against Xavier. I feel no need to cheer for him or whatever school he is coaching at even though he helped further Xavier as a basketball program.

[nuts4xu]

It. Makes. Xavier. Look. Bad.

Just like gladdenguy showed us, the headline isn't how well Miller is doing at U of A. It is how smart he was to leave X.

Seriously this is the least complicated thing in the world I feel like. Unless we want to be absolutely crucified by the national media I don't see how we want a U of A/OSU final four game. The whole damn thing will be about how smart they were to leave Xavier.

Doesn't that just sound like so much fun?!?!?!

OR it will be how smart they were to coach at Xavier in the first place. Without Xavier, neither gets the same opportunities. Gillen and Prosser left, and no one ever said how smart they were to leave Xavier.

They went on to have modest success and everyone reveres them. They are definitely cut from a much different cloth than Matta or Miller, but all 4 are part of our legacy.

I reserve my ire for Xavier coaches like Ned Wulk or some of the other terrible coaches in our history, not because a guy didn't leave our program showering us with praise and compliments.

[CinciX12]

No matter what Sean said or did when he left, he was a great coach when he was here, and is a great coach in Arizona. I would rather it be Xavier playing in the elite 8, but there will be at least a few mentions of our program during most every game he coaches. Xavier can't put a price on those "free mentions".

They are not saying those things in a positive way. Last night they listed off what he won and you still got the vibe the announcers felt there wasn't a decision to be made. Absolutely no one I am friends with that likes a school other than Xavier feels Sean (or Thad) had a remotely difficult decision to make.

If you like backhanded 'free mentions' then make sure you have your volume turned up nice and loud during U of A games.

[xsteve1]

I'm not sure how much easier it is for Miller at AZ. He's here now because he had Derrick Williams fall right into his lap because of Tim Floyd. He also benefitted from getting two other USC recruits in Momo Jones and I believe Solomon Hill. AZ escaped Memphis in the first round and Texs in round 2. Miller is a fantastic coach but the only reason he has Zona here this early is from a helluva lot of luck.

[Ledgewood]

OR it will be how smart they were to coach at Xavier in the first place.

HURRAY! Stepping Stone team for life! I am thrilled!


I hope Ariziona loses every game by thirty-seven.

[CinciX12]

OR it will be how smart they were to coach at Xavier in the first place. Without Xavier, neither gets the same opportunities. Gillen and Prosser left, and no one ever said how smart they were to leave Xavier.

They went on to have modest success and everyone reveres them. They are definitely cut from a much different cloth than Matta or Miller, but all 4 are part of our legacy.

I reserve my ire for Xavier coaches like Ned Wulk or some of the other terrible coaches in our history, not because a guy didn't leave our program showering us with praise and compliments.

That is absolutely not true. You cannot say how great of a coach Sean or Thad is and then say that they only reason they have success is because of Xavier.

Gillen and Prosser left before we had made the NCAA Tourney 9 of the last 10 years. We were still a mid major when they were the coach. It wasn't even worth discussing then. Those jobs were clearly better to anyone who wasn't wearing an X shirt on the day we found out.

[drudy23]

Honestly, I like watching Arizona...I think they have one of the most entertaining teams to watch.

[CinciX12]

I'm not sure how much easier it is for Miller at AZ. He's here now because he had Derrick Williams fall right into his lap because of Tim Floyd. He also benefitted from getting two other USC recruits in Momo Jones and I believe Solomon Hill. AZ escaped Memphis in the first round and Texs in round 2. Miller is a fantastic coach but the only reason he has Zona here this early is from a helluva lot of luck.

Good points, but even if OSU wins they will need luck at least one time during these 6 games.

[xsteve1]

Good points, but even if OSU wins they will need luck at least one time during these 6 games.

But OSU didn't have Lighty, Sullinger and Diebler fall into their laps. I actually think miller's team could beat OSU if they play though.

[MADXSTER]

Nuts, I believe what people here don't like is how the National BCS Media will use this to make xavier look inferior. I don't have anything against Miller in winning a title except for how the BCS pieces of crap Media will spin it. And that will hurt recruiting at Xavier.

IMO the BCS media has an unwritten agenda to belittle non-BCS teams. Didn't you see the crap Digger and the others were spewing.

[ThePowerOfX]

Im 100% with everything CinciX12 has said in this thread. Miller didnt just leave, he insulted our program on the way out with his Buick/Lexus statements and the national championship comment. I told my friend last night, I dont mind rooting for Sean because Im past it, but I just do not want to see him make a Final 4 with Arizona before Xavier does, after Xavier wins it all next year he can win whatever....

[gladdenguy]

Im 100% with everything CinciX12 has said in this thread. Miller didnt just leave, he insulted our program on the way out with his Buick/Lexus statements and the national championship comment. I told my friend last night, I dont mind rooting for Sean because Im past it, but I just do not want to see him make a Final 4 with Arizona before Xavier does, after Xavier wins it all next year he can win whatever....

I feel the exact way. The way he left and the comments he made, as well as the spin that is already put on it by the media is damaging to Xavier. It sucks bad. I hate Miller. I hate Arizona. I'm hoping UConn will do me a favor Saturday.

If not, look out for the praise of Sean Miller and how he was so right for leaving...blah blah blah for a whole week next week.

Boy "fatty cough cough" loves to ruin my opening days.

[muskiefan82]

I want a Marquette, Butler, Richmond and UCONN Final 4. Even though it would give the Big East two teams in the Final 4, it would eliminate OSU, Arizona and UK and put either Butler or Richmond in the Final.

F%^& Arizona and OSU. That is all.

[Blue Dog]

I don't see how this gives X any bad pub at all. Pretty much everyone in the country who's not a die hard X fan understands that it's much easier to win a NC at a place like Az or OSU.

So when some national announcer says that he left X because it would be easier to win big at Az, your average fan will say 'no shyt sherlock'. They aren't going to think 'wow I didn't realize it was so tough to win a NC at Xavier'.

What I'd love to see is Matta, Miller and Mack all in the E8 or FF the same year. Now that would be some massive great pub for us.

[CinciX12]

I feel the exact way. The way he left and the comments he made, as well as the spin that is already put on it by the media is damaging to Xavier. It sucks bad. I hate Miller. I hate Arizona. I'm hoping UConn will do me a favor Saturday.

If not, look out for the praise of Sean Miller and how he was so right for leaving...blah blah blah for a whole week next week.

Boy "fatty cough cough" loves to ruin my opening days.

This is more of my opinion too. If you could promise me that X would be spoken of in a positive light by everyone then I will put on a U of A shirt and want them to win Saturday.

[Kevin Waymire]

He's here now because he had Derrick Williams fall right into his lap because of Tim Floyd.

Miller is a fantastic coach but the only reason he has Zona here this early is from a helluva lot of luck.

Please, buddy!!!!!!! You sound like a god-damned sour Dayton fan. How pissed off do you get when people say the only reason Xavier has had great success is because we had Holloway, Lavender, Crawford fall into our lap due to Kelvin Sampson? Exactly...it's bullshit and not true. MIller/Mack still had to recruit these guys against 343 other D1 schools. Just like Miller had to recruit Williams, Hill, etc. to get those guys to come to Zona . Don't be a hypocrite. Face the facts and give credit where credit is due. I hope Miller gets crushed in his Elite 8 game because I want X to reach the Final Four before Zona does. But I cannot discount the REMARKABLE job he has done in just two years on the job.

That said - let's go UCONN.

[drudy23]

I want a Marquette, Butler, Richmond and UCONN Final 4. Even though it would give the Big East two teams in the Final 4, it would eliminate OSU, Arizona and UK and put either Butler or Richmond in the Final.

F%^& Arizona and OSU. That is all.

That would be the least watched Final Four of all time....horrid.

[CinciX12]

I don't see how this gives X any bad pub at all. Pretty much everyone in the country who's not a die hard X fan understands that it's much easier to win a NC at a place like Az or OSU.

So when some national announcer says that he left X because it would be easier to win big at Az, your average fan will say 'no shyt sherlock'. They aren't going to think 'wow I didn't realize it was so tough to win a NC at Xavier'.

What I'd love to see is Matta, Miller and Mack all in the E8 or FF the same year. Now that would be some massive great pub for us.

It only is bad publicity if you ever expect Xavier to make it to that level. When I say that I don't want Miller to make a final four/win a national title it is because I think X can realistically make that level of competition in the next decade. It isn't like I am holding out on Miller until he is 75 years old.

[BBC 08]

Any one else not really care one way or the other or is that just me? Arizona wins and I'm like, "ok, that happened." and then move on. I find this to be a much better way to take the situation.

[LadyMuskie]

Any one else not really care one way or the other or is that just me? Arizona wins and I'm like, "ok, that happened." and then move on. I find this to be a much better way to take the situation.

For the most part I feel this way. I don't follow Arizona during the season any more or less than any other team that doesn't have Xavier across the front of the jersey. If they win, fine. If they lose, great. But, just as I cheered for Florida when Thad played them a couple of years ago, so too will I cheer for whichever team Sean gets from here on out. So, go UCONN!

Oddly, I have no problem with OSU winning it all this year. I even have them picked to do so on one of my brackets. I guess the wound from Sean is fresher . . . and he made the comment about winning the title, which anyone with any sense never would've said.

[xnatic03]

It's such bad publicity that DSR committed (and although he de-committed, everything I have heard says he is still a very strong possibility here) and that we were down to the last 2 for Rodney Purvis. To think Arizona and OSU's success adversely affects us is assinine. Was Xavier going to get Jared Sullinger? Or Jordan Siebert? Probably not, but Mack has still gotten commitments from some stud players we would not have even sniffed 10 years ago. Matta and Miller are parts to that rise. I still don't like Matta, nor do I root for OSU. I don't actively root for Miller either. That being said, I don't hold this bitterness that many of you still harbor. Xavier as a program is doing fine, and is in good hands with Mack and company. Matta's been to a championship game at OSU...has that negatively affected Xavier? Arizona went to Final Fours and won championships before Miller was there, so how is him getting there going to affect us exactly? Who cares what the national media says? Does what Digger Phelps and Fran Fraschilla say on their Twitter accounts have much pull on many recruits?

[Ledgewood]

Any one else not really care one way or the other or is that just me? Arizona wins and I'm like, "ok, that happened." and then move on. I find this to be a much better way to take the situation.

I'm sure this says a lot about my character, but I would never stop vomitting if I have to see OSU vs. Arizona in the Final Four.

[NotYourOrdinaryXFan]

Phooey!!!!

None of this makes Xavier look bad. It is what it is. Arizona is an elite program. It's a final destination school that probably 2/3 of the big six school coaches would skip town to work for. So don't lose your minds over this. Even at the time when Prosser and Gillen left X both Wake and UVA were rather competitive in the ACC. And Ohio State is Ohio State. There's a problem when X is being left for Seton Hall or Minnesota or Washington State.

[LadyMuskie]

I'm sure this says a lot about my character, but I would never stop vomitting if I have to see OSU vs. Arizona in the Final Four.

I don't know about character, but I think you'd have some physical issues arise from this.

[paulxu]

We are focused on the wrong things here. Whatever Miller and Matta do now we can't affect except in one way...win.
Butler lost their star to the NBA just like we did in Brown and Crawford. But they are right back in it with no better a team, facilities or coach than we have. Very simply our short bench hurt us for one year.
We'll fix that next year.
The answer is to be in the Sweet Sixteen every year, and crack the Final Four. That's what we have to do, just like Butler.
And get in a better conference some year when the time is right.

[Kahns Krazy]

It. Makes. Xavier. Look. Bad.
?!

Us pissing down our leg in the first round made us look bad. Miller and Matta having success does nothing but draw more attention to our program in a positive way.

[CinciX12]

Us pissing down our leg in the first round made us look bad. Miller and Matta having success does nothing but draw more attention to our program in a positive way.

Couldn't disagree more. It just shows that leaving X was the right choice.

[waggy]

This thread is stupid and sucks. Sean Miller Appreciation Thread?? Good grief. Troll much?

And some of you that have to fall on your swords over this non-issue, only make it worse by appearing to speak for the X fan base.

I do want to take this op to clear up one little misconception though.. When Miller was "torn because of his love for X", it wasn't a ploy to get more out of X.. It's all part of the negotiation process, and was actually about getting more out of UA, which he knew was there because of his relationship with Cal.

[Kahns Krazy]

Couldn't disagree more. It just shows that leaving X was the right choice.

That may be the reality. The solution to that isn't Sean and Thad losing, it's us winning.

Please describe the damage done to our program by Arizona winning last night.

[xnatic03]

Couldn't disagree more. It just shows that leaving X was the right choice.

WHO F-ING CARES?!?!??!? Next man in. Staak, Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller, now Mack. It's not affected us. Xavier's level has increased exponentially since Matta took over and left. We knew they would both leave eventually anyways. What is the saying "All press is good press"? I don't mind our name being out there, as long as there is not "scandal", "arrests", etc involved in being in the press. It has not affected us in the least. As Kahn's said, losing in the tournament and looking badly doing so hurts us more than Matta and Miller still being in the tourney. I am highly confident Xavier will make a Final 4 with Mack at the helm.

[paulxu]

This thread is stupid and sucks. Sean Miller Appreciation Thread?? Good grief. Troll much?

I think he just called Nuts a troll.

[xavierj]

WHO F-ING CARES?!?!??!? Next man in. Staak, Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller, now Mack. It's not affected us. Xavier's level has increased exponentially since Matta took over and left. We knew they would both leave eventually anyways. What is the saying "All press is good press"? I don't mind our name being out there, as long as there is not "scandal", "arrests", etc involved in being in the press. It has not affected us in the least. As Kahn's said, losing in the tournament and looking badly doing so hurts us more than Matta and Miller still being in the tourney. I am highly confident Xavier will make a Final 4 with Mack at the helm.

I think the changing of coaches has hurt us. You can't tell me that you don't think that Xavier would not yet have made a final 4 if Thad had never left or that Sean had never left. We lost recruits each time they left which hurt us. You don't think Kevin Parrom could be helping Xavier. People might not like that guy but he can play and he is a bad ass.

Sean also would have brought in a couple of recruits to help and Derrick Brown probably would have stayed. If you would have had Brown and Crawford on the team last year we would have beaten K-State and went to the final 4. Xavier has held serve with coaching changes but each time we had to start over in regards to some recruits. Let's hope Chris can keep the continuity and the solid recruits flowing.

Oh and even negative press can be a good thing. When people constantly bring up your name you get exposure. So people know who you are. When Chris Mack walks into the gym and they see Xavier they say I know them, they win and send guys to the NBA. It's not like they remember and say, oh Sean Miller left them and went to Arizona because Xavier cannot win. It's kind of like an actor. When their career sucks their agents start up a scandal to get their name out in front of the public.

[CinciX12]

WHO F-ING CARES?!?!??!? Next man in. Staak, Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller, now Mack. It's not affected us. Xavier's level has increased exponentially since Matta took over and left. We knew they would both leave eventually anyways. What is the saying "All press is good press"? I don't mind our name being out there, as long as there is not "scandal", "arrests", etc involved in being in the press. It has not affected us in the least. As Kahn's said, losing in the tournament and looking badly doing so hurts us more than Matta and Miller still being in the tourney. I am highly confident Xavier will make a Final 4 with Mack at the helm.

All is press is good press? That is so far from true I want to hit my head off the wall when people say it.

How exactly does it reflect well on Xavier when every talking head while practically giggling to themselves like little school girls mentions how good of a decision it was to leave Xavier?

When they say that, they are saying that they do not expect us to ever achieve the level of success that some of us expect too.

[kyxu]

I think the changing of coaches has hurt us. You can't tell me that you don't think that Xavier would not yet have made a final 4 if Thad had never left or that Sean had never left.

I don't think you can say either way with much certainty.

Though I do agree with your overall point that losing coaches hurts (really, we're just one bad hire away from having a lot undone), it's crazy to say that the Thad Five would've played on Victory Parkway had Matta stuck around. And I think deep down Thad didn't think he could win a national title at Xavier, and that's the first step to actually doing so. Miller probably thought he could, but was more "sure" of doing it at Arizona. You often need transcendent players to win it all, and it's easier to lure them to Arizona or Ohio State than Xavier.

Hopefully, Mack is the guy. I think he believes that it can be done at Xavier, and has the loyalty to stick around to see it through, but really you never know.

[HEMI]

Getting so close with Matta/Miller followed by their departures has only made me hungrier. Maybe I’m unrealistic, but just getting to a Final Four won’t satisfy me. George Mason has a Final Four. Butler has a Final Four and is working on another. I want Xavier to win the whole thing. I want a National Championship. Then another. Then another. Then another. I want to see X do to the NCAA field what it’s done to the A10 the last five years. Put your boots on fellas, there’s doors that need kicked in. Let’s Go!

[whitesox]

Couldn't disagree more. It just shows that leaving X was the right choice.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but:

Who says it wasn't?

We all obviously love Xavier, but Arizona is one of the most prominent jobs and programs in college basketball. I would have loved for Miller to have stayed, but I really don't see how anyone can blame him for leaving.

It doesn't reflect poorly on Kansas that Roy Williams left for North Carolina. It doesn't reflect poorly on Illinois that Bill Self left for Kansas.

This doesn't mean that Xavier will eternally be a stepping stone; there are fewer and fewer jobs that are objectively better than Xavier. And the more we win, the more we close the gaps on the top programs. Skip Prosser left Xavier for a Wake Forest program that made 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite Eight in the entire 12 years Dave Odom coached there. Xavier is at the point where I would be extremely surprised if any head coach of ours had interest in leaving for a program like that- and it is largely due to Matta and Miller that a job like that is now a step down.

[GuyFawkes38]

I know it's crazy, but coaches do change jobs and have success at other places.

As Whitsox notes, it happens to even really good programs like Kansas, Illinois, Pitt, etc...

[Xavgrad08]

I think it is easier to recruit five star players to Arizona or OSU than it is to Xavier. Since Miller has been at Arizona he has signed two five star players in Josiah Turner, and he has a verbal from Grant Jarett in the 2012 class. Thad was able to have a monster 2006 class at OSU. I just don't think most elite level players want to play conference games vs Lasalle, George Washington, Fordham etc.

Miller may have believed someday he could compete for a title at X, but I think he believed it would be far easier at Arizona. If you look at X's recruiting during the sean miller era from 2005-2008 he signed 9, 3 stars and 3, 4 stars. Obviously this doesn't take into account any transfers that Sean signed while at X. Since going to Arizona he has signed 7, 4 stars, 4, 3 stars and 2, 5 stars. Basically, Sean has recruited at a higher level at Arizona than at X. Sean didn't just suddenly become a better recruiter at Arizona, just that higher rated kids are more receptive to go there.

I think money definately played a factor, but I don't think it was the only factor. I think Thad and Sean both believed they had an easier shot to win it all at Arizona, and OSU.

[xnatic03]

I will go back to my old standard.....WHO THE F--- CARES that the talking heads are giggling like little school girls about us. Xavier has won in spite of these guys talking badly about us. Obviously the recruits still are hearing the name Xavier (both positively and negatively) and still opting to come here. You think we even come close to landing a guy like Dez Wells 10 years ago? I'm sure if Miller and Matta face off in the Final 4, there will be some piece about them being former assistants at Miami under Herb Sendek, and how Miller worked under Matta at Xavier. It's good press for them to talk about us. Our name is out there.
And as another poster just stated, who says it wasn't the right decision for Miller or Matta? They've both had success at these places and seem happy. Good for them. We have Chris Mack now, who himself is a great recruiter and coach, and I'm 100% fine with that.

[GuyFawkes38]

I will go back to my old standard.....WHO THE F--- CARES that the talking heads are giggling like little school girls about us. Xavier has won in spite of these guys talking badly about us. Obviously the recruits still are hearing the name Xavier (both positively and negatively) and still opting to come here. You think we even come close to landing a guy like Dez Wells 10 years ago? I'm sure if Miller and Matta face off in the Final 4, there will be some piece about them being former assistants at Miami under Herb Sendek, and how Miller worked under Matta at Xavier. It's good press for them to talk about us. Our name is out there.
And as another poster just stated, who says it wasn't the right decision for Miller or Matta? They've both had success at these places and seem happy. Good for them. We have Chris Mack now, who himself is a great recruiter and coach, and I'm 100% fine with that.

We are talking about a tweet from Fran fraschilla. right?

calm down everyone.

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm trying to understand the logic.

So I guess part of the reason Butler is having so much success right now is because Licklighter was awful at Iowa and fired.

It has nothing to do with Brad Stevens or Matt Howard or Shelvin Mack. It was Licklighter sucking at Iowa.

Now that I think of it, the X program really seemed to improve when Pete Gillen began struggling at Virginia. sure.

[SixFig]

During the Big East tournament, Fran was out-color-commentated by Doris Burke.

She is good, but as a former coach, he should be better.

Nuff said

[NotYourOrdinaryXFan]

I think the changing of coaches has hurt us. You can't tell me that you don't think that Xavier would not yet have made a final 4 if Thad had never left or that Sean had never left. We lost recruits each time they left which hurt us. You don't think Kevin Parrom could be helping Xavier. People might not like that guy but he can play and he is a bad ass.

Sean also would have brought in a couple of recruits to help and Derrick Brown probably would have stayed. If you would have had Brown and Crawford on the team last year we would have beaten K-State and went to the final 4. Xavier has held serve with coaching changes but each time we had to start over in regards to some recruits. Let's hope Chris can keep the continuity and the solid recruits flowing.

Oh and even negative press can be a good thing. When people constantly bring up your name you get exposure. So people know who you are. When Chris Mack walks into the gym and they see Xavier they say I know them, they win and send guys to the NBA. It's not like they remember and say, oh Sean Miller left them and went to Arizona because Xavier cannot win. It's kind of like an actor. When their career sucks their agents start up a scandal to get their name out in front of the public.

Coaching changes always hurt! That's the nature of the business. But if you have a good brand your business should be able to weather the storm. Xavier has done just that. Now, would Xavier have been to the Final Four by now if either Matta or Miller had stayed? My guess, no! Shoot, Mark Few has been at Gonzaga for 11 years and hasn't made it past the sweet 16 and has had just as many guys go to the NBA as X has. There is just a level of recruit that Xavier has not been able to get and that's the type that goes to Ohio State or Arizona. Xavier gets recruits that need years to develop or does something great also but has an epic flaw. So a guy comes in to coach and he gives it a shot for 3 to 5 years. He then sees there's a ceiling and when one of the big boys come looking for a new coach, they jump. It sucks! But it's reality. Like I said in an earlier post, these coaches are leaving for upper echelon schools not middle of the pack Big 6 schools

[DC Muskie]

Nuts should be embarrassed by starting this thread.

Xavier is the cradle of coaches? He just made us the Miami OH of college basketball.

Pathetic.

What Sean Miller does for Arizona is not a reflection, positive or negative on Xavier.


I think there are some of you that need to be reminded we are fans of a Division I basketball program who competes at a high level.

Embarrassing.

[NotYourOrdinaryXFan]

During the Big East tournament, Fran was out-color-commentated by Doris Burke.

She is good, but as a former coach, he should be better.

Nuff said

I don't know. I remember Doris when she first started and she was horrible. I think in the last few years she has been one of the hardest working sports media types in developing her skill set. Kudos to her.

[gladdenguy]

Getting so close with Matta/Miller followed by their departures has only made me hungrier. Maybe I’m unrealistic, but just getting to a Final Four won’t satisfy me. George Mason has a Final Four. Butler has a Final Four and is working on another. I want Xavier to win the whole thing. I want a National Championship. Then another.* Then another. Then another. I want to see X do to the NCAA field what it’s done to the A10 the last five years.*Put your boots on fellas, there’s doors that need kicked in.*Let’s Go!

I love Xavier, but give me a break dude.....it will not happen in your lifetime or mine.
If it does, meet back up with me. I will take care of you.

A final four....hopefully, maybe.....but multiple National Championships....no.

[joe titan]

It is not an unfair comment to recognize Coach Miller backed into the USC recruits, but his coaching is not to be overlooked.

Some programs have prospered b/c NBA allows for early entry such that big name programs lose key players too early & often. The situation dilutes college talent pool but affords teams with lesser talent an opportunity to compete. Here's hoping the NBA takes no action.

[GuyFawkes38]

If Sean and Thad meet in the Final Four, it will set back the X program 30 years.

[paulxu]

This thread is proof (in case you needed any) that we have entered the off-season.

[surfxu]

Just like everyone else on here, I felt like a one night stand thown out to the curb with my panties around my ankles when Miller left. I held animosity towards him. One thing that change my opinion to be more neutral is Chris Mack's relationship with Miller. Chris will not stand for anyone saying anything bad about Sean. Go to a Steak Fry and try to bad mouth Miller...Chris will instantly get pissed off. Now it's true that Sean's departure created an opportunity for Chris but I believe that it goes beyond that. I'm sure that Chris is genuinely happy for Miller's success at AZ.
Bottom line is if someone is a friend of Mack's then he is no enemy of mine.
That doesn't mean I'm about to buy a Wildcat's shirt to wear for the rest of the weekend, but last night while watching the game I found greater pleasure in Duke losing...and maybe that's cuz it was Duke.

[gladdenguy]

If Sean and Thad meet in the Final Four, it will set back the X program 30 years.

One day if I do ever meet you I will be glad to pour a beer on your head.
While it drips down past your nose and your eyes close.....the force of my headbutt will result in you bleeding heavily out of your nose and eyes.....instantly you will fall to the ground.
Then I will proceed to piss on you.
Boy that would be a pleasure.

[pizza delivery]

If Sean and Thad meet in the Final Four, it will set back the X program 30 years.

I totally disagree from this standpoint: Mack can say look, it's not the coaches, it's the players. As long as player xyz commits to play at X, Mack can lead them to the Final Four and possibly beyond. The NBA aspect is in lock already. I think Mack can say, look, I'm no worse than Sean, or Thad, or whoever else, in fact could be a lot better than them, but he just needs the horses to do it. Dez Wells is one of those kind of players, for example. He's going to mash at X. The other recruits coming in are also all very highly regarded. I think it's unfortunate X lost in the first round this year, but it doesn't hurt that Sean and Thad are doing well. Mack believes, the players believe, the recruits believe. All is well as long as the effort and mindset that's been in place continues.

[smileyy]

I think part of getting those recruits is getting on TV. The A-10 needs to do a better job of supporting Temple, Richmond and Xavier -- the teams that are showing that they can play on the national level.

[SixFig]

I think part of getting those recruits is getting on TV. The A-10 needs to do a better job of supporting Temple, Richmond and Xavier -- the teams that are showing that they can play on the national level.

The A-10 is on ESPN more than the Pac 10, at least

[DC Muskie]

I think part of getting those recruits is getting on TV. The A-10 needs to do a better job of supporting Temple, Richmond and Xavier -- the teams that are showing that they can play on the national level.

What would you like the A-10 to do exactly?

[Kahns Krazy]

I think the changing of coaches has hurt us. You can't tell me that you don't think that Xavier would not yet have made a final 4 if Thad had never left or that Sean had never left. .

Short term, losing Thad or Sean may have resulted in a season or two that we would have had a deeper run or more success. Long term, I truly believe that demonstrating the ability to reload multiple times after coaching changes is an enormous asset to the program. We will never be able to compete with the Arizona's of the world when it comes to paying coaches.

Xavier has established that it is a program, not a coach. Successful former coaches will make the job attractive to top coaching talent the next time the job is open.

[PMI]

I'm with Nuts on this one. I think Xavier fans are a very over-sensitive bunch. We may very well see our last two former coaches go head to head in the Final Four. You can't ignore where they came from. I could care less if Miller feels like he can win a championship in Arizona and not at Xavier, as long as Chris Mack keeps building toward a championship here. Thad Matta and Sean Miller are TWO OF THE BEST THINGS TO HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO XAVIER BASKETBALL. We have NO idea where we'd be without those two today, but my guess is much, much worse off. Who cares if they used us? We used them too! That's business.

I am a huge fan of their coaching styles and enjoy watching both their teams. I think we're in great hands now. And on top of all of that, Miller's team won me a shitload of money last night. Like literally one of my best betting days ever. I took the over, Arizona +9.5 and Arizona +450. My weekend rage is going to be courtesy of Sean Miller, and it won't be the first time (thinking back to Phoenix in 08.) Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Raise your hand if you wish we never had Matta and Miller.

Yea, that's what I thought.

[drudy23]

I'm with Nuts on this one. I think Xavier fans are a very over-sensitive bunch. We may very well see our last two former coaches go head to head in the Final Four. You can't ignore where they came from. I could care less if Miller feels like he can win a championship in Arizona and not at Xavier, as long as Chris Mack keeps building toward a championship here. Thad Matta and Sean Miller are TWO OF THE BEST THINGS TO HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO XAVIER BASKETBALL. We have NO idea where we'd be without those two today, but my guess is much, much worse off. Who cares if they used us? We used them too! That's business.

I am a huge fan of their coaching styles and enjoy watching both their teams. I think we're in great hands now. And on top of all of that, Miller's team won me a shitload of money last night. Like literally one of my best betting days ever. I took the over, Arizona +9.5 and Arizona +450. My weekend rage is going to be courtesy of Sean Miller, and it won't be the first time (thinking back to Phoenix in 08.) Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Raise your hand if you wish we never had Matta and Miller.

Yea, that's what I thought.

I'm not sure that paying them ALOT of money to make the team better is XU "using" them.

[DC Muskie]

I'm with Nuts on this one. I think Xavier fans are a very over-sensitive bunch. We may very well see our last two former coaches go head to head in the Final Four. You can't ignore where they came from. I could care less if Miller feels like he can win a championship in Arizona and not at Xavier, as long as Chris Mack keeps building toward a championship here. Thad Matta and Sean Miller are TWO OF THE BEST THINGS TO HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO XAVIER BASKETBALL. We have NO idea where we'd be without those two today, but my guess is much, much worse off. Who cares if they used us? We used them too! That's business.

I am a huge fan of their coaching styles and enjoy watching both their teams. I think we're in great hands now. And on top of all of that, Miller's team won me a shitload of money last night. Like literally one of my best betting days ever. I took the over, Arizona +9.5 and Arizona +450. My weekend rage is going to be courtesy of Sean Miller, and it won't be the first time (thinking back to Phoenix in 08.) Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Raise your hand if you wish we never had Matta and Miller.

Yea, that's what I thought.


Utterly ridiculous. it seems to me that you feel Xavier fans should not be upset at anything. Absolutley nothing. Certain not about coaches, who no longer coach them, coaching other, bigger programs to things that they could not achieve at Xavier.

Earth to you idiots. This is your division 1 freaking basketball program calling. We would like your undivided support please.

I'd rather have Matta or Miller right now. I love Mack. They left us. I like cake, but I don't get to eat it, when a fat bitch takes it away.

Holy Shit PMI, do you have any pride? Miller won you a shitload of money. Fantastic. Buy yourself some self respect.

If you think this is business, then why in the hell do we need to feel anything for them, let alone appreciation? You can't be mad at them. But you certainly should feel appreciation, because this is a business. How does that work?

Matta and Miller winning is not good for us. Just like Kansas winning is not good for us. Or Butler.

We really don't want to pride ourselves on some cradle of coaches bullshit.

[PMI]

I'm not sure that paying them ALOT of money to make the team better is XU "using" them.

I think you're missing the point. We got ALOT of exposure, recruits, money, etc. based on our basketball success that was piloted by those two. It is a two way street, is it not? If you don't want to use the word "use," fine, but both parties benefitted GREATLY from the two situations.

[PMI]

Utterly ridiculous. it seems to me that you feel Xavier fans should not be upset at anything. Absolutley nothing. Certain not about coaches, who no longer coach them, coaching other, bigger programs to things that they could not achieve at Xavier.

Earth to you idiots. This is your division 1 freaking basketball program calling. We would like your undivided support please.

I'd rather have Matta or Miller right now. I love Mack. They left us. I like cake, but I don't get to eat it, when a fat bitch takes it away.

Holy Shit PMI, do you have any pride? Miller won you a shitload of money. Fantastic. Buy yourself some self respect.

If you think this is business, then why in the hell do we need to feel anything for them, let alone appreciation? You can't be mad at them. But you certainly should feel appreciation, because this is a business. How does that work?

Matta and Miller winning is not good for us. Just like Kansas winning is not good for us. Or Butler.

We really don't want to pride ourselves on some cradle of coaches bullshit.

DC, this isn't even worth responding to. What a joke. Go ahead and hold your grudges until you become a bitter old man, no sweat off my back. I for one choose to dwell on the positives of the best decade in Xavier history. Of course I was pissed when they left, but like a sane person, I got over it, continued on with my life, and continue to support my program. You're right, college basketball isn't a business, it's just one big loyal circle-jerk. What was I thinking...

[xubrew]

once you step outside of the xavier fanbase, i really don't think too many people strongly associate either matta or miller with xavier anymore. it may be pointed out if they end up facing each other, but that will probably be the extent of it. when purdue plays illinois, which happens twice a year, they don't go on and on about southern illinois. they may make mention of it, but no one really harps on it other than southern illinois fans. matta and miller have other associations now. i don't think it makes us look bad. i don't think it makes us look good. i don't really think it makes us look like anything. i mean, who is it exactly that is looking??

as far as how i feel about matta and miller, i guess i'm conditioned to not care. i used to think people who did care were crazy, but i don't anymore. i understand...at least i think. coaches aren't like fans, though. most fans are fans of the same team year after year after year and never really look to change. coaches do. ALL of them do. not just matta and miller. maybe it's more money. i don't see anything wrong with that. i changed jobs for more money, and am not beyond doing it again. maybe they wanted what they deemed to be better competition. playing big ten and pac ten teams night in and night out may be more exciting than playing george washington, la salle, charlotte, et al night in and night out. maybe it was for both those reasons. maybe it was for other reasons as well. i really don't care, and never really did.

i disagree with the notion that the coaching changes have somehow put xavier off track, or for that matter really held us up all that much. what if jordan crawford had opted to come back?? what if justin martin had been a full quialifier?? what if redford hadn't been injured?? with those three players, how good would we have been?? last year, we lost in double overtime in the sweet sixteen. we also lost to the national runner up on a bizarre ending. we really weren't THAT far away from a final four last year, or at the very least we fielded the caliber of team that could have beaten kansas state and then butler. we nearly beat both.

believe or not, given the choice between the three, i really like chris mack. i'm TOTALLY serious. maybe that's another reason i don't care that matta and miller are gone.

i thought he did a great job last year, but after this past season, i actually have even more confidence in him despite the fact that we didn't do as well. we didn't have the personnel that ohio state and arizona had, and much of it was due to a player leaving for the nba, a player not qualifying, and a player being injured. we went from looking like a middle of the pack summit league team, to looking like a top 25 team. i can't think of a time in either matta or miller's career when they made such an improvement with so little. we did this without the personnel that we typically have, and that is why i was so impressed by it. i also think we are even better at playing to our strengths and scouting our opponents under mack. we were good under matta and miller, but i think we're better with mack. the recruiting is as strong as it has been. this was a sub par year in terms of personnel, and we were still a top 25 team. to me, that is amazing. i think it's at least as amazing as anything matta or miller did while at xavier. i'm actually MORE confident about xavier making the final four some day soon. we weren't TOO far off last year.

[drudy23]

Does this stuff really keep people up at night? Really?

[paulxu]

Brew, who stole your shift key? That's hard to read man.

[xubrew]

Brew, who stole your shift key? That's hard to read man.

as i've said before, i'm intentionally being informal because i can....

[DC Muskie]

DC, this isn't even worth responding to. What a joke. Go ahead and hold your grudges until you become a bitter old man, no sweat off my back. I for one choose to dwell on the positives of the best decade in Xavier history. Of course I was pissed when they left, but like a sane person, I got over it, continued on with my life, and continue to support my program. You're right, college basketball isn't a business, it's just one big loyal circle-jerk. What was I thinking...

It's not worth responding and yet you did.

It's not a grudge man, but Jesus a Sean Miller Appreciation Thread? Is he dead? did he retire? Is he coaching in the NBA? What the fuck do we have to appreciate him for? Doing his job? Xavier didn't get to the Sweet 16 the moment he showed up. You understand that right?

I loved Miller. I loved Matta. I don't anymore. That's the business. I think it's pathetic there are Xavier fans who think Sean Miller somehow built this program. he was just a part of it.

I'm not happy Butler's still in. Should I appreciate the fact Brad Stevens doesn't coach my team?

I really don't get this. It's simple. Sean Miller was awesome for us. Thank you. Now go pound sand in the tournament. Is that some over the top I don't appreciate the last decade of this program rant? Of course not. But I also don't need to surlp Sean because he is doing well at Zona.

I hope Calhoun beats him. OHHHHHHHH how I am holding such a grudge! Me this whiny Xavier fan!

Fandom is not that hard. There is you, your team and your friends. Then there is everyone else. It sounds like you are the one who wants a big circle jerk, thanking and appreciating everyone for everything they ever did.

[American X]

You are doing something wrong if I am agreeing with Double Cheeseburger Muskie.

I am glad Miller was here and wish him well, but we can stop bringing him up for no reason. Honesty, nuts, this is your second recent Miller appreciation thread (http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18273). One or none was probably enough.

And Miami is not a rival.

[muskiefan82]

You are doing something wrong if I am agreeing with Double Cheeseburger Muskie.

I am glad Miller was here and wish him well, but we can stop bringing him up for no reason. Honesty, nuts, this is your second recent Miller appreciation thread (http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18273). One or none was probably enough.

And Miami is not a rival.

But I appreciate Charlie Coles....

[GuyFawkes38]

Foks, I want what's best for the X program.

That obviously means that Sean and Thad must have awful careers after X. They must go to their deathbed regretting their decision to leave X.

That's just the way it is. We can't make it to the next level if Thad and Sean continue to have success.

[PMI]

It's not worth responding and yet you did.

It's not a grudge man, but Jesus a Sean Miller Appreciation Thread? Is he dead? did he retire? Is he coaching in the NBA? What the fuck do we have to appreciate him for? Doing his job? Xavier didn't get to the Sweet 16 the moment he showed up. You understand that right?

I loved Miller. I loved Matta. I don't anymore. That's the business. I think it's pathetic there are Xavier fans who think Sean Miller somehow built this program. he was just a part of it.

I'm not happy Butler's still in. Should I appreciate the fact Brad Stevens doesn't coach my team?

I really don't get this. It's simple. Sean Miller was awesome for us. Thank you. Now go pound sand in the tournament. Is that some over the top I don't appreciate the last decade of this program rant? Of course not. But I also don't need to surlp Sean because he is doing well at Zona.

I hope Calhoun beats him. OHHHHHHHH how I am holding such a grudge! Me this whiny Xavier fan!

Fandom is not that hard. There is you, your team and your friends. Then there is everyone else. It sounds like you are the one who wants a big circle jerk, thanking and appreciating everyone for everything they ever did.

That's quite a dropoff in tone from your previous post. Look, of course I have my undying support of Xavier and all that, I just don't think undying support has to include holding it over our former coaches who left. If I'm less of a Xavier fan in some people's eyes for rooting for Sean Miller over a Duke team I hate and Coach Calhoun who I hate, then whatever. I like Sean Miller as a basketball fan. I hated it when he left and it hurt, but I'm over it. If we had sucked the past two years I probably wouldn't be, but I am. I don't see ANYTHING wrong with appreciating the work of people who, like it or not, were enormous parts of building Xavier into the program it is. Nobody says they did it all and we'd be nowhere without them, but they are big parts. Yes, Sean didn't build this program, but to say "he's just a part of it" is naive as hell to me. Shit could've fallen apart when any of our coaches left. Miller gave us some great years.

You say you don't feel the need to slurp Sean for what he's doing at Arizona. Well I don't feel the need to disparage it just because he left us for them. I like Sean Miller basketball. Arizona is a fun team to watch to me. Please spare me the definition of fandom, as I think it's pretty clear there's no one clear-cut way to be a fan. Some people think being a fan is playing with your Thad and Sean voodoo dolls nightly before bed. That's not me. This isn't even about thanking Sean for everything he did to me. It's about rejecting the notion that we have to wish death upon him for making a career change. If time can't heal that for you, I think you have issues, and using the excuse that you're just a true fan because of it is a weak cop-out in my opinion. People who hate Thad and Sean are entitled to that, but spare me the self-righteous "I'm a true fan" bullshit. I don't think I need to prove my fan-ship to anyone just because I am rooting for Sean Miller to beat a couple programs I despise.

And for what it's worth, Butler is BY FAR my most hated team left in the tournament. I HATE those guys with an irrational passion, and I'm allowed to. I don't think the Xavier fans who are rooting for Butler are any less of fans because of it.

[xubrew]

i think xavier fans think about sean miller and thad matta (pro or con) a hundred times more often than they think about us. they probably couldn't care less if xavier was in the top ten, or outside of the top 200.

[GuyFawkes38]

i think xavier fans think about sean miller and thad matta (pro or con) a hundred times more often than they think about us. they probably couldn't care less if xavier was in the top ten, or outside of the top 200.

Perhaps that's true for Thad.

But I think that Sean still genuinely loves the program.

A couple weeks ago I saw Sean on Jim Rome's show. Sean brought up, almost out of nowhere, how much he loved being at Xavier and how tough of a decision it was to move and how he still roots for the program and Mack.

I guess he could be lying. But I doubt it.

[BlueX]

Perhaps that's true for Thad.

But I think that Sean still genuinely loves the program.

A couple weeks ago I saw Sean on Jim Rome's show. Sean brought up, almost out of nowhere, how much he loved being at Xavier and how tough of a decision it was to move and how he still roots for the program and Mack.

I guess he could be lying. But I doubt it.

Completely agree. Matta was trying to leave X as soon as he signed his contract. Miller genuinely loved Xavier, but the thought of being one of 2 power programs on the west coast was too much to pass up. I actively root against Beaky, but Sean I don't root for or against.

[mohr5150]

I dislike the Desert Raccoon and wish him nothing but the worst where he is now. I don't like Duke, but I wanted them to win last night, just as a rooted for Texas in the round before. DR, as I like to refer to him now, is benefiting from Tim Floyd's ouster at USC and the recruiting class he had coming in. They all jumped ship when Floyd was canned, and DR was right their to pick up all the scraps from the table, Williams included. When he left X, he lied to Bobo about his intentions, he listened to two of the slimiest coaches in all of basketball (who happen to be playing each other tonight), and therefore aligned himself with the worst of the worst. After spending our entire elite 8 run talking about how he could win a championship at X, he turned around and stated at his press conference how he could now lead a team to a Championship. Screw him. I will never root for one of his teams, just like I won't ever root for a team coached by Pinocchio up north or the slime ball of all slime balls that coaches in Lexington.

[PMI]

I think you're missing the point. We got ALOT of exposure, recruits, money, etc. based on our basketball success that was piloted by those two. It is a two way street, is it not? If you don't want to use the word "use," fine, but both parties benefitted GREATLY from the two situations.

I'd like to share with the board this awesome neg-rep comment I got from our resident douche Sweet16:

"You're so fucking stupid....again someone else who has "missed your point". Please tell me you really didn't graduate from X as you devalue my diploma."

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha. Care to clarify? Where am I off? Was there not a mutual benefit in the Thad/X and Sean/X relationships? Ah, screw it, you don't offer real insight. I'm just fucking stupid.

Seriously mods, is this going to just keep going on and on? If so, that's fine with me, as I enjoy owning him on boring days from time to time. I'd LOVE to meet this old tool in real life just once. It would only take once.

But seriously, I think way too many people try and quantify how much of our success belongs to the coaches vs. other parts of the program. It works both ways. We've had really good coaches who have been very fortunate to have been part of this program.

[DC Muskie]

PMI-

There's no drop off in tone from me. I don't go out of my way to bash Sean, or start threads about how he sucks, etc. etc. If you think Sean deserves more respect than just "being a part of the program" that's fine. There's no doubt Sean is a great coach. None. I don't call him names, especially ones that aren't even remotely clever. There were great coaches before him, and there are great coaches after him. He didn't break any new ground. He did not take us to new places. That doesn't take away from what he did. But it certainly doesn't give him a rim job.

I want the best for my program. I don't want my program to be the resource other programs who fuck themselves up, come to to make them better and pass us.

If there are actual Xavier fans who would like to see Miller and Matta play each other in the Final Four fine. I'd rather see Xavier in the Final Four. I mean it would be great to win a title, especially if big programs like Arizona and Ohio State are down, but why do we make it hard on ourselves by helping them with better coaches? Who else in the entire country does this? No one, just Xavier. And somehow in some sick twisted way, I'm supposed to feel pride? Because I enjoy basketball?

I have maintained the same thought process and tone. I don't want Sean to win. I don't want Thad to win. I don't care if they are playing Martian Terrorists Who Are Hell Bent on Taking Over Earth and Wiping Porn from the Planet.

I know that their winning solidifies the notion that Xavier cannot win. Their job is to prevent us from winning. This isn't some MAAC program, where going to the Sweet 16 is akin to winning a national title, this is Xavier. Where our last head coach preached we could win a title here, then left. For a place he and his friends convinced him would be easier.

It's not about getting over how or why he left. It's about not going out of your way to pat him on the back for doing something he used to do for us.

[PMI]

I'd rather Xavier go to the Final Four too. Let's agree on that. And that Sweet 16 is a useless bag of feces.

[golfitup]

PMI-

There's no drop off in tone from me. I don't go out of my way to bash Sean, or start threads about how he sucks, etc. etc. If you think Sean deserves more respect than just "being a part of the program" that's fine. There's no doubt Sean is a great coach. None. I don't call him names, especially ones that aren't even remotely clever. There were great coaches before him, and there are great coaches after him. He didn't break any new ground. He did not take us to new places. That doesn't take away from what he did. But it certainly doesn't give him a rim job.

I want the best for my program. I don't want my program to be the resource other programs who fuck themselves up, come to to make them better and pass us.

If there are actual Xavier fans who would like to see Miller and Matta play each other in the Final Four fine. I'd rather see Xavier in the Final Four. I mean it would be great to win a title, especially if big programs like Arizona and Ohio State are down, but why do we make it hard on ourselves by helping them with better coaches? Who else in the entire country does this? No one, just Xavier. And somehow in some sick twisted way, I'm supposed to feel pride? Because I enjoy basketball?

I have maintained the same thought process and tone. I don't want Sean to win. I don't want Thad to win. I don't care if they are playing Martian Terrorists Who Are Hell Bent on Taking Over Earth and Wiping Porn from the Planet.

I know that their winning solidifies the notion that Xavier cannot win. Their job is to prevent us from winning. This isn't some MAAC program, where going to the Sweet 16 is akin to winning a national title, this is Xavier. Where our last head coach preached we could win a title here, then left. For a place he and his friends convinced him would be easier.

It's not about getting over how or why he left. It's about not going out of your way to pat him on the back for doing something he used to do for us.

Here here! Screw him.

[SkyWalker]

Congratulations Coach Miller!

I do not think Arizona or Coach Miller winning casts any bad impression on Xavier. Let's face it, we are not Arizona or Ohio State..............yet. Although we have made tremendous strides since being a dormat in the 70's, we are still only a Top 25 program regularly. That's pretty good company. We have not reached the stage of contending for a national title year in and year out. We haven't even reached the stage of contending for a national title once.

These lofty goals are still in our future; hopefully sooner than later. Xavier's program has been built on the successes of Miller and Matta as well as Staak, Gillen, and Prosser. It remains a building process and hopefully Coach Mack can reap the success of his predecessors. Thank you Coach Miller and Coach Matta for growing our program so some day we may too become the National Champions!

[GuyFawkes38]

Congratulations Coach Miller!

I do not think Arizona or Coach Miller winning casts any bad impression on Xavier. Let's face it, we are not Arizona or Ohio State..............yet. Although we have made tremendous strides since being a dormat in the 70's, we are still only a Top 25 program regularly. That's pretty good company. We have not reached the stage of contending for a national title year in and year out. We haven't even reached the stage of contending for a national title once.

These lofty goals are still in our future; hopefully sooner than later. Xavier's program has been built on the successes of Miller and Matta as well as Staak, Gillen, and Prosser. It remains a building process and hopefully Coach Mack can reap the success of his predecessors. Thank you Coach Miller and Coach Matta for growing our program so some day we may too become the National Champions!

come on now skywalker. I'm afraid you just don't understand the dynamics of basketball.

Clearly you don't understand how Butler made the jump to the Final Four. They got there because Licklighter struggled and was fired at Iowa. That was key.

[SixFig]

Skywalker: Soon Arizona will win, and Xavier after.
Guyfawkes: [laughing] Perhaps you refer to the emminent meeting of OSU and Arizona? Yes, I assure you, we are quite safe from a Final Four here.
Skywaker: Your overconfidence is your weakness.
Guyfawkes: Your faith in Miller and Matta is yours.

[Masterofreality]

PMI-

There's no drop off in tone from me. I don't go out of my way to bash Sean, or start threads about how he sucks, etc. etc. If you think Sean deserves more respect than just "being a part of the program" that's fine. There's no doubt Sean is a great coach. None. I don't call him names, especially ones that aren't even remotely clever. There were great coaches before him, and there are great coaches after him. He didn't break any new ground. He did not take us to new places. That doesn't take away from what he did. But it certainly doesn't give him a rim job.

I want the best for my program. I don't want my program to be the resource other programs who fuck themselves up, come to to make them better and pass us.

If there are actual Xavier fans who would like to see Miller and Matta play each other in the Final Four fine. I'd rather see Xavier in the Final Four. I mean it would be great to win a title, especially if big programs like Arizona and Ohio State are down, but why do we make it hard on ourselves by helping them with better coaches? Who else in the entire country does this? No one, just Xavier. And somehow in some sick twisted way, I'm supposed to feel pride? Because I enjoy basketball?

I have maintained the same thought process and tone. I don't want Sean to win. I don't want Thad to win. I don't care if they are playing Martian Terrorists Who Are Hell Bent on Taking Over Earth and Wiping Porn from the Planet.

I know that their winning solidifies the notion that Xavier cannot win. Their job is to prevent us from winning. This isn't some MAAC program, where going to the Sweet 16 is akin to winning a national title, this is Xavier. Where our last head coach preached we could win a title here, then left. For a place he and his friends convinced him would be easier.

It's not about getting over how or why he left. It's about not going out of your way to pat him on the back for doing something he used to do for us.

YESSSSSSS!! And it COUNTS!!!!!!

[GuyFawkes38]

Great half by Roy William and his UNC squad. But what a punch to the gut for Kansas. This is a major setback for the Kansas program.

In unrelated news, Kansas is up by 19 against Richmond. In fact, Kansas won a title not long after their coach bolted and won a title himself. I bet Kansas fans rooted against UNC in 2005 because they thought that it would hurt the program if their longtime coach won a national championship so quickly after he left them. That sort of reminds me of this thread.

Ok, I think this will be my last sarcastic post on this thread. It was fun.

[SlimKibbles]

Skywalker: Soon Arizona will win, and Xavier after.
Guyfawkes: [laughing] Perhaps you refer to the emminent meeting of OSU and Arizona? Yes, I assure you, we are quite safe from a Final Four here.
Skywaker: Your overconfidence is your weakness.
Guyfawkes: Your faith in Miller and Matta is yours.

Someone rep this guy for the Return of the Jedi (Xavier style) post. I have to spread it around apparently.

[GuyFawkes38]

Someone rep this guy for the Return of the Jedi (Xavier style) post. I have to spread it around apparently.

I repped him.

[danaandvictory]

Regardless of your feelings about either -- both Matta and Miller are freaking incredible coaches. They both are probably in the top 7-8 coaches in D-I right now. I think both will win national titles, and soon.

The upshot? The guy that hired them is still here. And he hired our current guy. And if our current guy leaves, he'll hire the next guy.

I'm not concerned. We'll get there eventually.

[theprofessor]

Once upon a time there was a team whose coach left for a better, higher paying job. That coach took his new team to the elite 8 before leaving for an even higher paying job. The team's new coach, however, took the team to a championship game and now is back in the elite 8. Do you think Butler worries about Thad Matta anymore? If we continue to win and have the potential to achieve great things there is no reason to be bitter about past coaches. I met both Thad and Sean while they were at X and really liked them. Sean was at X for 8 years! Just like a co-worker who leaves for a higher paying job, I think you should wish them well.

On a side note, it will also be a challenge for us to pay a coach top dollar. While X's basketball program is profitable, overall athletics runs a defecit. (though obviously provides great benefits in terms of student engagement, marketing, etc,) X also has a very low endowment (see http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2010NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values_Fin al.pdf and find another university with a major basketball program with such a low endowment) + we receive no state funding. If you want to change things, write some big checks!

[jco17]

I'm not sure how much easier it is for Miller at AZ. He's here now because he had Derrick Williams fall right into his lap because of Tim Floyd. He also benefitted from getting two other USC recruits in Momo Jones and I believe Solomon Hill. AZ escaped Memphis in the first round and Texs in round 2. Miller is a fantastic coach but the only reason he has Zona here this early is from a helluva lot of luck.

Solomon Hill was previously commited to the Wildcats. He backed out when they weren't sure who would coach the team. He commited to USC, but never signed his LOI, and maintained that Arizona was where he wanted to go. All we had to do was hire a coach he liked. Floyd was dirty, Calhoun may even be dirtier.

Miller believed he was leaving a final four/national championship caliber team. That's directly from his mouth. He's never backed down from that statement either, he really feels that way. It was extremely difficult for him to leave you guys. He loved Xavier and Bobo. The comparison statement between Lexus and Buick is one that he wishes he could take back. Sometimes people say stupid things they wish they could take back. We've all done it before, I know I've done it.

It sucks that these national analysts conduct themselves like morons. The announcers in our game couldn't even get our players names right. Skip Bayless said that Arizona had ZERO chance and the game should just be handed over to Duke. People can be idiots. Most of us, know WAY more about sports than these guys. Especially about our teams, we're fanatics. National guys cover everybody, so their inside information is really biased and very bland.

I've followed Xavier for a good while and I know X is very capable of winning a national championship. I don't think teams or analysts have any right to look down on Xavier. I know for a fact Sean doesn't look down on Xavier. I've only ever heard him speak very highly of X.

[SixFig]

I've followed Xavier for a good while and I know X is very capable of winning a national championship. I don't think teams or analysts have any right to look down on Xavier. I know for a fact Sean doesn't look down on Xavier. I've only ever heard him speak very highly of X.

I know you mean well, but even if my ex-girlfriend tells the world I was the best she ever had, she's still not with me now is she?

Ahhh not playing late in March has left me bitter. Can you tell?

[LA Muskie]

Could be.

But try to defend him taking people signed to X on LOIs (I know that isn't a huge deal) and comparing us to a rather crappy car. Although they have just recently learned they can put a turbo in one.

He insulted us. It makes sense to not wish him ill will. But it doesn't make sense to wish him well either.
I'm not convinced he actually said that. True, he hasn't denied it -- but he wouldn't throw his own kid under the bus. I honestly think he never said it...

[Xpectations]

Umm...Didn't Matta leave Butler too. For Xavier even.

Matta obviously feels: Butler < Xavier < Ohio State.

He subsequently took his ultimate employer to a Natioal Championship.

That doesn't appear to have hurt Butler's chance to compete for a National Championship.

It won't hurt ours either.

[Anti-Homer]

I'm not convinced he actually said that. True, he hasn't denied it -- but he wouldn't throw his own kid under the bus. I honestly think he never said it...

Even if he did, like it or not, XU is his competitor now. When Thad was here, if Butler and X were competing for DWest, I don't think we would like it if Thad backed off due to his previous relationship with Butler.

Bottom line is Thad and Sean elevated this program to new heights. They left b/c they were courted by elite programs who can guarantee them financial security for generations to come, and a better chance to win a national Championship.

If SM said that comment in public, then I think we'd have a legitimate reason to be insulted. However, he intended for it to stay between him and a recruit, but obviously it did not.

XU and Wake have been competing for the same recruits for the last decade or so. I'm sure Kelsey and CM touted the ACC over the A-10 when competing for a recruit. I'm also sure we discussed the 100% grad rate, and not always being third fiddle at best in our league, as Wake will be as long as Duke and NC are in the league.

[Sonoran Desert Muskie]

It is not an unfair comment to recognize Coach Miller backed into the USC recruits, but his coaching is not to be overlooked.



Absolutely correct. Miller and UA were EXTREMELY fortunate that Floyd got into hot water at USC at just the right time. Becuase of all the coaching turnover at UA post-Lute Olson, UA was just about the only major Division I program that had scholarships available for the USC decommits. Williams, who is the best college player this year, fell into Miller's lap. Without Williams, UA is a .500 team. I am not questioning Miller's coaching ability. He's an excellent good coach, but he happened to be in the right place at the right time.

[xavierj]

I am a huge Arizona fan today. I can't stand Calhoun and I can make some nice cash with a Zona win today to cap my 3 team parlay with VCU and Kentucky from last night.

[bobbiemcgee]

Absolutely correct. Miller and UA were EXTREMELY fortunate that Floyd got into hot water at USC at just the right time. Becuase of all the coaching turnover at UA post-Lute Olson, UA was just about the only major Division I program that had scholarships available for the USC decommits. Williams, who is the best college player this year, fell into Miller's lap. Without Williams, UA is a .500 team. I am not questioning Miller's coaching ability. He's an excellent good coach, but he happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Kids wanna play for Miller....see Tu Holloway/J Crawford. Same with Mack tho.

[American X]

One day if I do ever meet you I will be glad to pour a beer on your head.
While it drips down past your nose and your eyes close.....the force of my headbutt will result in you bleeding heavily out of your nose and eyes.....instantly you will fall to the ground.
Then I will proceed to piss on you.
Boy that would be a pleasure.

This is way over the top and a ban-able offense. Pouring out a perfectly good beer? Honestly, I should give you a week for suggesting it.


Chill out, gladdenguy. As The Dude said, "just take it easy, man."

[XURunner85]

I hope Connecticut beats the crap out of Arizona......no appreciation for Sean Miller....

[Masterofreality]

I hope Connecticut beats the crap out of Arizona......no appreciation for Sean Miller....

Gawd this is a nightmare. Can they both lose?

I guess my hate for anything Big Greased and a slimy Calhoun is worse than that other side, whatever that other side may be.

[LA Muskie]

I really want AZ to win. I'm kinda sick of the coaching old guard (except K, whom I will probably always like) and I'm ready for the next generation to mix it up a bit. I'm all for a Final Four that includes:

Brad Stevens
Sean Miller
Shaka Smart


If only we could do something about that last game...

And of course I agree that it'd be even better if Chris Mack was in that group. But it'd still be pretty cool even though he won't be.

[xubrew]

I hope Connecticut beats the crap out of Arizona......no appreciation for Sean Miller....

fwiw, i think connecticut WILL beat the crap out of arizona.

i'm rooting for zona. well, not really. i'm rooting AGAINST uconn. i just don't think zona has much of a chance.

[xubrew]

I really want AZ to win. I'm kinda sick of the coaching old guard (except K, whom I will probably always like) and I'm ready for the next generation to mix it up a bit. I'm all for a Final Four that includes:

Brad Stevens
Sean Miller
Shaka Smart


If only we could do something about that last game...

And of course I agree that it'd be even better if Chris Mack was in that group. But it'd still be pretty cool even though he won't be.

i'm sick of the old guard of teams moreso than coaches. i'm rooting for butler and vcu.

kentucky, uconn, zona, north carolina, florida and kansas.....i've seen that movie before. in fact, we've seen it many many many times before. i'll be very uninterested in the final four if it ends up being four of those six teams. i'll be missing college basketball before the tournament is even over because the teams i really like to watch will all be gone.

[NY44]

I have been rooting for Matta and Miller all tournament, because they are part of our success. When they left for bigger schools and more money they didn't take all the success they had at Xavier with them, they have been key pieces of what the program is today. Sean Miller even deserves some credit for what we have done these past two years(just a little bit), because it was with players he recruited.

Players Miller brought in: Crawford, McLean, Holloway, Jackson, Lyons, Frease, Redford, Taylor.
Mack: Mckenzie, Martin, Robinson, Canty, Latham, Travis Taylor.

Also its a business and I don't know anyone who wouldn't leave a job for a better paying one. So I thank Sean Miller and wish him luck because I know he does the same for Xavier every year, Xavier helped build him and he helped build Xavier. So for all of you rooting against him you better not get excited when they mention Xavier during the elite eight game, even though they were eliminated in the first round.

[PMI]

fwiw, i think connecticut WILL beat the crap out of arizona.

i'm rooting for zona. well, not really. i'm rooting AGAINST uconn. i just don't think zona has much of a chance.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Arizona wins the game outright. The Wildcats are playing extremely well right now and it's going to practically be a home game for them. I think there's about a 5% chance at best that Arizona gets the crap beaten out of them. Spread is UConn -3. Care to make a wager?

[xubrew]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Arizona wins the game outright. The Wildcats are playing extremely well right now and it's going to practically be a home game for them. I think there's about a 5% chance at best that Arizona gets the crap beaten out of them. Spread is UConn -3. Care to make a wager?

nope. i don't bet or wager on sports. even if i did, i don't think i would make it against the team that i'm rooting for. i don't think arizona will win, but i'm hoping that they do.

we shall see.

[PMI]

nope. i don't bet or wager on sports. even if i did, i don't think i would make it against the team that i'm rooting for. i don't think arizona will win, but i'm hoping that they do.

we shall see.

How about if Arizona covers you have to capitalize all applicable words for a week?

[paulxu]

How about if Arizona covers you have to capitalize all applicable words for a week?

This would be a good idea. I hope if he wins that he doesn't drop the periods and commas though, because I would then develop a full-blown migraine.

[DoubleD86]

Disclaimer: I am pretty neutral towards Sean and Thad. I don't root for Thad because I hate OSU. I am rooting for Zona for the rest of the way because all teams in that region I like are gone, and my bracket benefits from Zona winning (I had Duke, others have UConn).

Here is what I don't understand. Some people on this thread are claiming that they root against Sean/Thad or don't root for them because they are now a competitor and in a zero sum game their success comes at the expense of Xavier's. Whether you believe that theory is right or wrong, I ask this. IF that is truly the reason why you root against/don't root against Thad and Sean, how come those same people rooted for Skip and/or Pete after they left?

The obvious answer is you like Pete and Skip and like the way they left Xavier (probably not the fact that they left, but how they did so).

If that is the case, then you are basically rooting against/not rooting for Sean or Thad because you don't like them or don't like how they left, but are not willing to admit that it is bitterness/sourness.

[danaandvictory]

My philosophy on it is kind of complex and convoluted.

Thad was never going to be here for very long. He was a rising star from the first day he was on the job at Butler. He's a complete stud as a recruiter and strategist. We knew he was a mercenary -- he left his alma mater after one year for God's sake. His mind was always on Indiana or Purdue or OSU or Michigan and it was just a matter of when he got the chance. We got 78 wins in three years out of him and the school's longest foray into the Tournament, he got his Big Ten job. Sure, he left in a scummy way, but frankly he was always kind of a scummy dude. At this stage I wish Thad well. Not a big OSU supporter but I'd rather Thad won than Calipari or K or Calhoun.

Sean was a different matter. His reputation was entirely based on his work at Xavier. He had no prior head coaching experience and wasn't exactly a hot name for job openings when X hired him. And we had to deal with his growing pains those first two years. I think there was more belief in Sean because he was such an integral part of building the program up. And Sean was up front about his belief that X could go to Final Fours and win championships. For me, when he left it was a shock to the system because the guy who was so forthright in his assessment about the potential of this program was basically saying "oh, sorry, that was all bullshit."

I honestly believe that, had Miller stayed at XU, we would have made another deep, deep incursion into the Tournament. Maybe a Butler-style run last year.

I like Sean a lot more than Thad. Thad is a mercenary. Sean seemed more about XU. I'm more "okay" with Thad's success than Sean's, because with Thad it was always going to happen. Sean left promises unfulfilled.

[kyxu]

My philosophy on it is kind of complex and convoluted.

Thad was never going to be here for very long. He was a rising star from the first day he was on the job at Butler. He's a complete stud as a recruiter and strategist. We knew he was a mercenary -- he left his alma mater after one year for God's sake. His mind was always on Indiana or Purdue or OSU or Michigan and it was just a matter of when he got the chance. We got 78 wins in three years out of him and the school's longest foray into the Tournament, he got his Big Ten job. Sure, he left in a scummy way, but frankly he was always kind of a scummy dude. At this stage I wish Thad well. Not a big OSU supporter but I'd rather Thad won than Calipari or K or Calhoun.

Sean was a different matter. His reputation was entirely based on his work at Xavier. He had no prior head coaching experience and wasn't exactly a hot name for job openings when X hired him. And we had to deal with his growing pains those first two years. I think there was more belief in Sean because he was such an integral part of building the program up. And Sean was up front about his belief that X could go to Final Fours and win championships. For me, when he left it was a shock to the system because the guy who was so forthright in his assessment about the potential of this program was basically saying "oh, sorry, that was all bullshit."

I honestly believe that, had Miller stayed at XU, we would have made another deep, deep incursion into the Tournament. Maybe a Butler-style run last year.

I like Sean a lot more than Thad. Thad is a mercenary. Sean seemed more about XU. I'm more "okay" with Thad's success than Sean's, because with Thad it was always going to happen. Sean left promises unfulfilled.

Bingo

[Masterofreality]

I like Sean a lot more than Thad. Thad is a mercenary. Sean seemed more about XU. I'm more "okay" with Thad's success than Sean's, because with Thad it was always going to happen. Sean left promises unfulfilled.

Beaknose=Lying Mercenary. True.

Raccoon= Disingenuous Mercenary with broken promises. True. He promised a Final Four, then pulled out the rug. Not only that, as is documented in the book NeXt in Line he went against his family's wishes when taking the job in AZ. While this is not in the book, it is clear that Amy Miller did not want to move to Arizona from Cincinnati. As is stated in the book, when Chris Mack went to the Miller house after he was called by the Raccoon, "Amy Miller answered the door, crying." Sorry, but a wife does not cry when she is moving in alignment with her wishes. I have no respect for someone who does not put his wife's and family's wishes first. Maybe I'm too loyal, but that's how I see how life should be lived.

So, add it up. The raccoon made declarations about how there would be a Final Four in Xavier's future under his watch, but in reality was dedicated to the school that gave him his first chance, lived with his early mistakes, then rewarded him richly for only as long as it took for some other place to throw the bank at him. Then he goes totally against what his wife and kids want, and finally demeans his former school as a "Buick" then rips LOI signed recruits.

Sorry. The complete "body of work" of both of these individuals shows a lack of integrity and loyalty to those who gave them significant support and they were both ready and willing to dismiss that in exchange for $$. I cannot ever cheer for people like that.

[xubrew]

How about if Arizona covers you have to capitalize all applicable words for a week?

It's a good thing that I don't bet. After watching the first few minutes, Arizona is taking it to UConn, and scoring. I thought UConn's interior defense would eat Zona alive if they tried doing that. It hasn't so far, and it probably won't for the rest of the game. A UConn win wouldn't surprise me, but if they win it probably won't be for the reasons I thought they would.

As far as the above quote, I've decide to end a decade-plus long superstition. I'm trying to give up superstitions for Lent, and it's time to give up this one. The whole non-caps thing started back during the 2001-2002 season. I was a senior in college, and back then Xavier had never been NCAA Tournament regulars. When they did make it in, they were typically fairly close to the bubble. In my four years of college, we made the tourney twice, and were one of the last teams selected one of those times. That season, I literally lost the use of my shift key because I had a shitty keyboard, so I didn't cap anything. I got a new keyboard, but we went on a stretch where we won 20 of 22. I continued not capping anything, and it just stuck.

That's how superstitious I am. It's been ten years, and I'm just now stopping. That's why it's a good thing to give up for Lent, I guess.

If we start to lose, though, I can't say I won't start doing it again.

GO ZONA!! I'm not rooting for Zona as much as I'm rooting against UConn.

PMI, if I'm ever back in Cincy, we'll meet up for a beer no matter what the outcome. I don't bet on sports, but I figure I owe you that no matter what the outcome is.

brew

[gladdenguy]

I appreciate "Fatty Cough Cough" for losing in the Elite 8 just as his Xavier team did.

Thank you UConn for making my weekend.

[Xpectations]

Sean was a different matter. His reputation was entirely based on his work at Xavier. He had no prior head coaching experience and wasn't exactly a hot name for job openings when X hired him. And we had to deal with his growing pains those first two years.

Sean's "growing pains" those first two years had more to do with limited player experience and our weakest point guard talent since Bob Staak was coach.

Not saying Miller didn't improve, but Thad wouldn't have gone anywhere with those teams either.

[newtsac]

And the Lexus has run out of gas... must be those prices.

[GuyFawkes38]

Sean's "growing pains" those first two years had more to do with limited player experience and our weakest point guard talent since Bob Staak was coach.

Not saying Miller didn't improve, but Thad wouldn't have gone anywhere with those teams either.

I've mentioned it before and everyone seems to strongly disagree.

But IMHO, Miller attracted much better talent than Matta (of course, Matta's elite eight run was with Prosser's recruits).

[X-Fan]

I've mentioned it before and everyone seems to strongly disagree.

But IMHO, Miller attracted much better talent than Matta (of course, Matta's elite eight run was with Prosser's recruits).

I would agree with that, but Miller was flat our LUCKY to have Williams fall into his lap. Without him they maybe don't make the tourney.

[xavierj]

I am a huge Arizona fan today. I can't stand Calhoun and I can make some nice cash with a Zona win today to cap my 3 team parlay with VCU and Kentucky from last night.

Thank you Arizona for bombing 3's at the end and letting time run out thus covering the spread.

[CinciX12]

How much easier was it Sean? Atta boy..

[LA Muskie]

I would agree with that, but Miller was flat our LUCKY to have Williams fall into his lap. Without him they maybe don't make the tourney.
It certainly didn't hurt, but I suspect there was a feeding frenzy over Williams behind the scenes -- so it's still impressive that AZ ended up with him. I don't care what the other programs' scholly situations looked like, I'd guess almost every program would have "found" a way to get him in if they could.

[Masterofreality]

Sean's "growing pains" those first two years had more to do with limited player experience and our weakest point guard talent since Bob Staak was coach.

Not saying Miller didn't improve, but Thad wouldn't have gone anywhere with those teams either.

To be fair, and the story is well documented. The Racoon was recruiting Kyle Lowery. John Groce was recruiting Churchill Odia. Groce's opinion won with Beaknose and they took Odia. When Pinocchio left the Raccoon was left with Odia, Dedrick Finn and the Junior College Transfer Dupree Lucas, who only saw cups of coffee on the court.

The only new recruit that eventually contributed as a freshman in 2004-2005 was one Stanley Burrell.

[xsteve1]

I can't believe Williams missed those 3's at the end. He's a much better shooter than Redford (he was shooting over 60% from 3 for the year). I guess Zona's luck just ran out.

[HuskyMuskie]

Immediately after the game, as he was walking to shake Calhoun's hand, it showed Sean running his hands through his hair, closing his eyes, and taking a deep exhale. You know, while imagining the scoreboard and thinking about how close he came yet again, he HAD to be thinking about Xavier.

[CinciX12]

Immediately after the game, as he was walking to shake Calhoun's hand, it showed Sean running his hands through his hair, closing his eyes, and taking a deep exhale. You know, while imagining the scoreboard and thinking about how close he came yet again, he HAD to be thinking about Xavier.

No he wasn't, he was probably cursing the name of both of the guys who missed 2 pretty good looks at a game winning shot. Maybe on the trip back he thought about it.

[Xavier]

Immediately after the game, as he was walking to shake Calhoun's hand, it showed Sean running his hands through his hair, closing his eyes, and taking a deep exhale. You know, while imagining the scoreboard and thinking about how close he came yet again, he HAD to be thinking about Xavier.

Doubt it. More likely- I can't believe how close I got to the FF in just my second year at AZ.

[halcyon.days.of.Carter]

Immediately after the game, as he was walking to shake Calhoun's hand, it showed Sean running his hands through his hair, closing his eyes, and taking a deep exhale. You know, while imagining the scoreboard and thinking about how close he came yet again, he HAD to be thinking about Xavier.

I don't mean to come off as a dick here - so sorry if I do - but there was no way he was thinking about Xavier. You sound like a Dayton fan here, in the sense that they think that their program holds some greater importance or relevance that it does and is connected to all things college basketball. Sean thinks about Xavier every know and then, but I'm sure he was thinking "Damn, I just poured my heart and soul into this place and our luck ran out."

[xavier3]

It certainly didn't hurt, but I suspect there was a feeding frenzy over Williams behind the scenes -- so it's still impressive that AZ ended up with him. I don't care what the other programs' scholly situations looked like, I'd guess almost every program would have "found" a way to get him in if they could.

Luck seems to be the common theme. If it isn't X must be luck

[kyxu]

Luck seems to be the common theme. If it isn't X must be luck

Um, yeah.

[XUdenver]

Didn't see this link posted anywhere in the thread, but it is particularly relevant, I think.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Sean-Miller-happy-coaching-arizona-Wildcats-in-ncaa-tournament-032311

[PMI]

Luck seems to be the common theme. If it isn't X must be luck


Um, yeah.

Nope, X gets lucky too sometimes. Just not nearly as much as Butler has the past two tournaments.

I love how luck is always a taboo word in sports. There's luck in everything. It's very hard to quantify, obviously, but it's not invisible.

[Kahns Krazy]

I think it is invisible. I have never seen a pile of luck laying around.

[PMI]

I think it is invisible. I have never seen a pile of luck laying around.

Haha. I've known a few people who have found pretty big piles of luck.

[smileyy]

i don't know if its luck or bad matchups, but XU has only beaten a higher-seeded team once since 2004 (Pitt last year, who was overseeded). Of course, they've only lost to a lower-seeded team once in that span (this year).

(I think I'm remembering it all right)

I'm not sure if I'd rather have a more variable performance, or a more to-seed performance year after year.

[kyxu]

i don't know if its luck or bad matchups, but XU has only beaten a higher-seeded team once since 2004 (Pitt last year, who was overseeded). Of course, they've only lost to a lower-seeded team once in that span (this year).

When we beat BYU in 2007, the Cougars were the higher seed.

[GoMuskies]

I appreciate that Sean Miller lost his last game.

[smileyy]

When we beat BYU in 2007, the Cougars were the higher seed.

Good point, though that almost doesn't count :)

[jco17]

I would agree with that, but Miller was flat our LUCKY to have Williams fall into his lap. Without him they maybe don't make the tourney.

Derrick didn't fall into Sean's lap. He was actually gonna commit to Pastner at Memphis during his visit. However, his mother told him that he should go through with his visit to Arizona, because he already had the date set. There were a ton of teams that came after Derrick really, really hard when he got out of his LOI.

[jco17]

Immediately after the game, as he was walking to shake Calhoun's hand, it showed Sean running his hands through his hair, closing his eyes, and taking a deep exhale. You know, while imagining the scoreboard and thinking about how close he came yet again, he HAD to be thinking about Xavier.

If you think that's the only time he thinks of Xavier, you are crazy. He mentions them in almost every interview. He's proud of Xavier and the time he spent.

[jco17]

I can't believe Williams missed those 3's at the end. He's a much better shooter than Redford (he was shooting over 60% from 3 for the year). I guess Zona's luck just ran out.

Just wasn't Derrick's time yet. It was Kemba Walker's moment and that kid really deserved it. I had a lump in my throat, but I couldn't help but be really happy for that young man. He's really worked his tail off and has carried a super heavy load all year long. I'm glad he was able to get the feeling he's worked so hard to have all year. Congrats to Kemba.

[jco17]

My philosophy on it is kind of complex and convoluted.

Thad was never going to be here for very long. He was a rising star from the first day he was on the job at Butler. He's a complete stud as a recruiter and strategist. We knew he was a mercenary -- he left his alma mater after one year for God's sake. His mind was always on Indiana or Purdue or OSU or Michigan and it was just a matter of when he got the chance. We got 78 wins in three years out of him and the school's longest foray into the Tournament, he got his Big Ten job. Sure, he left in a scummy way, but frankly he was always kind of a scummy dude. At this stage I wish Thad well. Not a big OSU supporter but I'd rather Thad won than Calipari or K or Calhoun.

Sean was a different matter. His reputation was entirely based on his work at Xavier. He had no prior head coaching experience and wasn't exactly a hot name for job openings when X hired him. And we had to deal with his growing pains those first two years. I think there was more belief in Sean because he was such an integral part of building the program up. And Sean was up front about his belief that X could go to Final Fours and win championships. For me, when he left it was a shock to the system because the guy who was so forthright in his assessment about the potential of this program was basically saying "oh, sorry, that was all bullshit."

I honestly believe that, had Miller stayed at XU, we would have made another deep, deep incursion into the Tournament. Maybe a Butler-style run last year.

I like Sean a lot more than Thad. Thad is a mercenary. Sean seemed more about XU. I'm more "okay" with Thad's success than Sean's, because with Thad it was always going to happen. Sean left promises unfulfilled.

Look, Sean Miller wouldn't be where he is today without Xavier, period. He owes you guys a lot and he still follows everything you guys are doing. Like I said a million times, it was not an easy decision for Sean, but Mack was ready and Arizona was a job Miller wanted to take. I know, he would have never left you guys if he didn't have trust in Mack and Bobo for X's future.

[jco17]

I know you mean well, but even if my ex-girlfriend tells the world I was the best she ever had, she's still not with me now is she?

Ahhh not playing late in March has left me bitter. Can you tell?

I understand. However, it's a much better situation than if she told everybody you were hung like a hamster and couldn't find the g-spot on a five pound vagina.

[boozehound]

I understand. However, it's a much better situation than if she told everybody you were hung like a hamster and couldn't find the g-spot on a five pound vagina.

That was funny.

[xsteve1]

I really hope Sean doesn't recommend his brother Archie at UD. I'd hate to see UD hire somebody with the Miller pedigree. That would be another way to stick it to X.

[PMI]

I really hope Sean doesn't recommend his brother Archie at UD. I'd hate to see UD hire somebody with the Miller pedigree. That would be another way to stick it to X.

Come on. What in the world makes you think Sean Miller is looking for a way to stick it to Xavier? This kind of bullshit just amazes me. If Archie Miller were to hypothetically take the dayton job, it would be because it would be a big opportunity for him. How do some people here honestly believe that Miller (and Matta) sit around in their free time thinking of ways to screw over the school that gave them outstanding opportunities to advance their careers and lives? Some Xavier fans really do live in a bubble.

[xsteve1]

Come on. What in the world makes you think Sean Miller is looking for a way to stick it to Xavier? This kind of bullshit just amazes me. If Archie Miller were to hypothetically take the dayton job, it would be because it would be a big opportunity for him. How do some people here honestly believe that Miller (and Matta) sit around in their free time thinking of ways to screw over the school that gave them outstanding opportunities to advance their careers and lives? Some Xavier fans really do live in a bubble.

I worded that wrongly. I think Sean really appreciates X. But it would definitely stick in my crawl if Archie Miller ended up at UD. I think if Mack would ever leave he'd be a good fit at X.

[drudy23]

I can't believe Williams missed those 3's at the end. He's a much better shooter than Redford (he was shooting over 60% from 3 for the year). I guess Zona's luck just ran out.


I don't care what percentage he shot...he aint a better shooter than Redford.

There is no one on the face of the planet that is "a much better shooter than Redford"...and DW certainly doesn't fit that description.

[chico]

My philosophy on it is kind of complex and convoluted.

Thad was never going to be here for very long. He was a rising star from the first day he was on the job at Butler. He's a complete stud as a recruiter and strategist. We knew he was a mercenary -- he left his alma mater after one year for God's sake. His mind was always on Indiana or Purdue or OSU or Michigan and it was just a matter of when he got the chance. We got 78 wins in three years out of him and the school's longest foray into the Tournament, he got his Big Ten job. Sure, he left in a scummy way, but frankly he was always kind of a scummy dude. At this stage I wish Thad well. Not a big OSU supporter but I'd rather Thad won than Calipari or K or Calhoun.

Sean was a different matter. His reputation was entirely based on his work at Xavier. He had no prior head coaching experience and wasn't exactly a hot name for job openings when X hired him. And we had to deal with his growing pains those first two years. I think there was more belief in Sean because he was such an integral part of building the program up. And Sean was up front about his belief that X could go to Final Fours and win championships. For me, when he left it was a shock to the system because the guy who was so forthright in his assessment about the potential of this program was basically saying "oh, sorry, that was all bullshit."

I honestly believe that, had Miller stayed at XU, we would have made another deep, deep incursion into the Tournament. Maybe a Butler-style run last year.

I like Sean a lot more than Thad. Thad is a mercenary. Sean seemed more about XU. I'm more "okay" with Thad's success than Sean's, because with Thad it was always going to happen. Sean left promises unfulfilled.

This is a very good description of how a lot of fans feel. I'll always believe that if Miller stayed then D. Brown stays and we have our final 4. I agree - Thad you knew was going place. Miller, not so much. And for him to jump at the first big money job that came his way. I thought he'd be here until a good Big East or ACC job opened up, since he's an east coast guy. Fans know coaches leave, but what chafes people is not that he left but how it all went down. It's hard to forget the first words out of his mouth at his press conference.

If he doesn't win 4 games in 4 days his second year I think there would have been some calls to go in another direction, but he grew a lot as a coach and he may turn out to be better than Matta when all is said and done. We were the school who gave him his chance and stuck with him, so I thought he'd be a little more loyal.

But you know, he did a lot for the program when he was here and I'm sure it would be tough for any of us to turn down that kind of money. Arizona is a place where he can be very good for a very long time. The Pac 10 is not really a basketball conference filled with great coaches and programs so he's in a pretty good spot out there.

My only hope is that we don't go through this type of discussion each year he makes a deep run in the tourney.

But if we do play in the same region, maybe we should do something like give him a standing ovation...

[PMI]

I don't care what percentage he shot...he aint a better shooter than Redford.

There is no one on the face of the planet that is "a much better shooter than Redford"...and DW certainly doesn't fit that description.

Yea Williams would not beat Redford in a game of horse by any means. Not many people would. But being 9 inches taller and about 90 times more athletic than Redford makes it a little easier to get quality looks off for Williams. He is going to be a very, very good NBA player.

[xsteve1]

I don't care what percentage he shot...he aint a better shooter than Redford.

There is no one on the face of the planet that is "a much better shooter than Redford"...and DW certainly doesn't fit that description.


I'd take Redford in a game of horse but not in a game situation. Hopefully Brad hits some big shots in the future because he's yet to really hit a big in game shot.

[jco17]

I worded that wrongly. I think Sean really appreciates X. But it would definitely stick in my crawl if Archie Miller ended up at UD. I think if Mack would ever leave he'd be a good fit at X.

Archie is a stud recruiter and he's gonna be a head coach really soon. Not sure it will be Dayton though. So far, there has been zero indication that Dayton has him on their short list yet. I promise you guys, I will let you know if there is any reason to believe there is a chance that Archie could be headed to Dayton. Hopefully we will get a heads up first because he's a major part of our success.

Archie is a major reason Arizona (will be) and OSU is loaded with talent. Archie got Josiah Turner and Nick Johnson in which he was the lead recruiter. He played a major part in getting Angelo Chol too. We'll be unbelievably lucky if we can keep our entire staff. Although, they have all expressed that they want to win a title first and they will all be getting raises for next year really soon.

Book would be a great fit at Xavier too if Mack were to leave. He's a big time recruiter. He got us Momo Jones, Sidiki Johnson, and Parrom. He'd be money for you guys back on the East Coast again and he now has major ties to the West Coast as well. He would have landed Quinn Cook if Turner had not commited, he believes that 100%. Xavier is just getting warmed up guys and is very well on its way to be a brand and it will make it easier to recruit.

Believe me, I know some hate it, but Xavier is getting mentioned over and over again. Everybody is talking about Xavier, whether it has to do with Miller, Mack, Matta, Tu, or the city of Cincy. The name is out there and kids are picking up on it. I think your stock is gonna keep rising too. I know a ton of Arizona fans keep tabs on Xavier and root for you guys a lot like I do. I think X has another great chance to take a big step forward next year with Tu being a Sr and you guys getting some good talent in your recruiting. Justin Martin should be a big help.

[Kahns Krazy]

This is a very good description of how a lot of fans feel. I'll always believe that if Miller stayed then D. Brown stays and we have our final 4....

I think this is a rather presumptuous foregone conclusion. Look at the talent on the 1 and 2 lines that didn't make the final four this year.

[PMI]

Archie is a stud recruiter and he's gonna be a head coach really soon. Not sure it will be Dayton though. So far, there has been zero indication that Dayton has him on their short list yet. I promise you guys, I will let you know if there is any reason to believe there is a chance that Archie could be headed to Dayton. Hopefully we will get a heads up first because he's a major part of our success.

Archie is a major reason Arizona (will be) and OSU is loaded with talent. Archie got Josiah Turner and Nick Johnson in which he was the lead recruiter. He played a major part in getting Angelo Chol too. We'll be unbelievably lucky if we can keep our entire staff. Although, they have all expressed that they want to win a title first and they will all be getting raises for next year really soon.

Book would be a great fit at Xavier too if Mack were to leave. He's a big time recruiter. He got us Momo Jones, Sidiki Johnson, and Parrom. He'd be money for you guys back on the East Coast again and he now has major ties to the West Coast as well. He would have landed Quinn Cook if Turner had not commited, he believes that 100%. Xavier is just getting warmed up guys and is very well on its way to be a brand and it will make it easier to recruit.

Believe me, I know some hate it, but Xavier is getting mentioned over and over again. Everybody is talking about Xavier, whether it has to do with Miller, Mack, Matta, Tu, or the city of Cincy. The name is out there and kids are picking up on it. I think your stock is gonna keep rising too. I know a ton of Arizona fans keep tabs on Xavier and root for you guys a lot like I do. I think X has another great chance to take a big step forward next year with Tu being a Sr and you guys getting some good talent in your recruiting. Justin Martin should be a big help.

Thanks for being a supportive and peaceful Arizona fan. I'm in the minority here, but I root for Arizona in the Pac 10 and now that I've had time to get over Miller leaving, I support him. I find your last paragraph interesting. There were a few silver linings to Miller leaving, mainly Chris Mack stepping in, but another one may very well be that Pac 10 country is now that much more familiar with Xavier. Sometimes it takes more than just on-court success to get your brand name out there. Our Nike Elite deal certainly plays a huge role in that too, but having one of the top coaching stars in the West come from here certainly can;t hurt either. If I'm not mistaking, I think our last recruit from the west coast was Anthony Coleman, about ten years or so ago, and he didn't stay at Xavier very long. At least I think he was from California. I can't remember getting a west coast kid since.

[bourbonman]

Vee and I sat in front of Miller's father in Cleveland. Very nice fellow. Talked very favorably of X and Sean's interest in X. While it didn't end the way we may have dreamt, I'm certain all parties have moved on and are doing well, at least I'm extremely pleased with Mack.

Once Xavier was eliminated, I wish there was a semi-final of former X coaches, but that would have prevented my 2nd team from making the Final Four. And of course Sean missed as well.

[chico]

I think this is a rather presumptuous foregone conclusion. Look at the talent on the 1 and 2 lines that didn't make the final four this year.

Oh, I know - the tourney is all about match-ups, we wouldn't have probably played K St, chemistry may not have been as good. Probably more wishful thinking than anything but I really thought they had the talent to do it if D. Brown stayed.

[DC Muskie]

Archie is a stud recruiter and he's gonna be a head coach really soon. Not sure it will be Dayton though. So far, there has been zero indication that Dayton has him on their short list yet. I promise you guys, I will let you know if there is any reason to believe there is a chance that Archie could be headed to Dayton. Hopefully we will get a heads up first because he's a major part of our success.

Archie is a major reason Arizona (will be) and OSU is loaded with talent. Archie got Josiah Turner and Nick Johnson in which he was the lead recruiter. He played a major part in getting Angelo Chol too. We'll be unbelievably lucky if we can keep our entire staff. Although, they have all expressed that they want to win a title first and they will all be getting raises for next year really soon.

Book would be a great fit at Xavier too if Mack were to leave. He's a big time recruiter. He got us Momo Jones, Sidiki Johnson, and Parrom. He'd be money for you guys back on the East Coast again and he now has major ties to the West Coast as well. He would have landed Quinn Cook if Turner had not commited, he believes that 100%. Xavier is just getting warmed up guys and is very well on its way to be a brand and it will make it easier to recruit.

Believe me, I know some hate it, but Xavier is getting mentioned over and over again. Everybody is talking about Xavier, whether it has to do with Miller, Mack, Matta, Tu, or the city of Cincy. The name is out there and kids are picking up on it. I think your stock is gonna keep rising too. I know a ton of Arizona fans keep tabs on Xavier and root for you guys a lot like I do. I think X has another great chance to take a big step forward next year with Tu being a Sr and you guys getting some good talent in your recruiting. Justin Martin should be a big help.

I feel like this is a lecture. Thanks for pointing out that our stock is rising.

I have no idea why Zona fans feel the need to come over here and tell us who our next coach is going to be. Or telling us we have another great chance to take a big step forward.

Who does this? This is a weird fascination you have with us.

Maybe you and PMI can text each other and talk about your love for Zona and the PAC 10.

Your posts are frankly creepy and borderline condescending.

[MADXSTER]

I feel like this is a lecture. Thanks for pointing out that our stock is rising.

I have no idea why Zona fans feel the need to come over here and tell us who our next coach is going to be. Or telling us we have another great chance to take a big step forward.

Who does this? This is a weird fascination you have with us.

Maybe you and PMI can text each other and talk about your love for Zona and the PAC 10.

Your posts are frankly creepy and borderline condescending.

Looks like someone didn't take their sensitivity pill this morning.

Look at it this way, when fans from schools who are two thousand miles away and are not in anyway rivals, it's another sign of going Big Time.

Put another one in the trunk and you'll feel better. :)

[DC Muskie]

I don't take pills, sensativity be damed.

Sorry, I just find jco's posts to be flat out annoying. Book Richardson would be a good fit at Xavier if Mack left? Why would that be? because he's spent the last two years at Zona? Jesus, thanks for that insight.

People are talking about Xavier out where he is. Kids are picking up on us.

It's like just now we are getting recognized by a population that obviously doesn't know shit about basketball. Awesome. We've made it. How do I know? because a Zona fan told me so.

The part about Quinn Cook just makes me laugh.

Quinn Cook committed to a program that has or will have the following players in their backcourt:

Irving
Dawkins
Curry
Thornton

With the number one player in Rivers coming in next year. Count them up that 5 guys for like 2 positions, before they even get to Cook. But somehow this guy and Book knew he'd end up at Zona if Turner didn't come. I guess Quinn just doesn't want the challenge of Turner.

Have these fools heard of Nolan Smith? Do they know where he is from? Do you know who's parents are friends with each other? Have they noticed Cook's career track? Have they compared that to Smith?

It's just creepy. I wish the guy would just stay away. I wish they would close this stupid ass thread.

[PMI]

I hate the offseason, but at least we get our DC Muskie rants still.

[CinciX12]

Lol the guy ONLY posts in threads with Arizona in the title. He/she is far from annoying.

[DC Muskie]

Lol the guy ONLY posts in threads with Arizona in the title. He/she is far from annoying.

I must have missed where "Arizona" s listed in this title.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOL

[CinciX12]

Arizona and Sean Miller are not synonymous. Please accept my dearest apologies.

[nuts4xu]

Lol the guy ONLY posts in threads with Arizona in the title.

Not true...start a thread about Xavier scheduling a series with a Bob Huggins coached team and he will likely have a few good takes on the subject.

[boozehound]

I must have missed where "Arizona" s listed in this title.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOL

Calm down, man. You are going to give yourself a heart attack getting so worked about about this crap.

[Xpectations]

Not true...start a thread about Xavier scheduling a series with a Bob Huggins coached team and he will likely have a few good takes on the subject.

DC does love him some Huggs.

[DC Muskie]

Calm down, man. You are going to give yourself a heart attack getting so worked about about this crap.

Thanks Doc.


DC does love him some Huggs.

I hope for my health, we don't schedule a series with WVA. I will go postal.

[DC Muskie]

arizona and sean miller are not synonymous. Please accept my dearest apologies.

lol!

[Anti-Homer]

Archie is a stud recruiter and he's gonna be a head coach really soon. Not sure it will be Dayton though. So far, there has been zero indication that Dayton has him on their short list yet. I promise you guys, I will let you know if there is any reason to believe there is a chance that Archie could be headed to Dayton. Hopefully we will get a heads up first because he's a major part of our success.

Archie is a major reason Arizona (will be) and OSU is loaded with talent. Archie got Josiah Turner and Nick Johnson in which he was the lead recruiter. He played a major part in getting Angelo Chol too. We'll be unbelievably lucky if we can keep our entire staff. Although, they have all expressed that they want to win a title first and they will all be getting raises for next year really soon.

Book would be a great fit at Xavier too if Mack were to leave. He's a big time recruiter. He got us Momo Jones, Sidiki Johnson, and Parrom. He'd be money for you guys back on the East Coast again and he now has major ties to the West Coast as well. He would have landed Quinn Cook if Turner had not commited, he believes that 100%. Xavier is just getting warmed up guys and is very well on its way to be a brand and it will make it easier to recruit.

Believe me, I know some hate it, but Xavier is getting mentioned over and over again. Everybody is talking about Xavier, whether it has to do with Miller, Mack, Matta, Tu, or the city of Cincy. The name is out there and kids are picking up on it. I think your stock is gonna keep rising too. I know a ton of Arizona fans keep tabs on Xavier and root for you guys a lot like I do. I think X has another great chance to take a big step forward next year with Tu being a Sr and you guys getting some good talent in your recruiting. Justin Martin should be a big help.

Archie may be a stud recruiter, but it is easier to sell Microsoft than Enron-product has something to do with it. Recruiting at OSU and Arizona isn't the hardest job in the world, especially when you have relatively young coaches who have been very successful. Everyone said Mick Cronin is a great recruiter, but again, he was representing Pitino and Huggins, whose shady reputations never deterred 4-5 star players from coming to their programs. MC's recruiting prowess failed to produce the same type of players at Murray State. Funny how the best recruiters seem to be at the "elite schools".

As for SM, I am a fan of his coaching, but don't necessarily root for AZ. i'm thankful that he elevated the program to new heights, and solidifed XU's place as a nationally relevant program.

[jco17]

I don't take pills, sensativity be damed.

Sorry, I just find jco's posts to be flat out annoying. Book Richardson would be a good fit at Xavier if Mack left? Why would that be? because he's spent the last two years at Zona? Jesus, thanks for that insight.

People are talking about Xavier out where he is. Kids are picking up on us.

It's like just now we are getting recognized by a population that obviously doesn't know shit about basketball. Awesome. We've made it. How do I know? because a Zona fan told me so.

The part about Quinn Cook just makes me laugh.

Quinn Cook committed to a program that has or will have the following players in their backcourt:

Irving
Dawkins
Curry
Thornton

With the number one player in Rivers coming in next year. Count them up that 5 guys for like 2 positions, before they even get to Cook. But somehow this guy and Book knew he'd end up at Zona if Turner didn't come. I guess Quinn just doesn't want the challenge of Turner.

Have these fools heard of Nolan Smith? Do they know where he is from? Do you know who's parents are friends with each other? Have they noticed Cook's career track? Have they compared that to Smith?

It's just creepy. I wish the guy would just stay away. I wish they would close this stupid ass thread.

That came directly from Book's mouth. He already had an established relationship with Cook and his family. I didn't say Book would be a good fit a X because he's been at Arizona. I said that because he's a great recruiter and is familier with Xavier. He'd be able to recruit the East Coast extremely well. I don't know how many times, I have to tell you that I follow Xavier too. If it's creepy to have an East Coast team you root for as well as the team you grew up loving, I guess I'm creepy.

There were X fans that were a bit down on some things and I thought a somewhat outside opinion would be nice to hear. We are down a scholarship for next year, so we didn't have room for two pgs in that class. Just because I'm an Arizona fan, that makes me an idiot I guess. Great logic. Your post was extremely hypocritical. I don't come on here to make anybody angry, but you can't get passed me being an Arizona fan.

[LadyMuskie]

I just want to say thank you to the mod who finally moved this thread from XU Men's Basketball board to Around the NCAA since this Sean Miller person doesn't coach at X!

[GoMuskies]

I think Book would make an excellent assistant coach at Xavier if Steele were to leave.

[jco17]

Archie may be a stud recruiter, but it is easier to sell Microsoft than Enron-product has something to do with it. Recruiting at OSU and Arizona isn't the hardest job in the world, especially when you have relatively young coaches who have been very successful. Everyone said Mick Cronin is a great recruiter, but again, he was representing Pitino and Huggins, whose shady reputations never deterred 4-5 star players from coming to their programs. MC's recruiting prowess failed to produce the same type of players at Murray State. Funny how the best recruiters seem to be at the "elite schools".

As for SM, I am a fan of his coaching, but don't necessarily root for AZ. i'm thankful that he elevated the program to new heights, and solidifed XU's place as a nationally relevant program.

Mick's problem is, he's not that good of a coach. He's got some really good players to go to Cincy, with little to show. Not a fan of Cronin at all. Archie is a very good coach too, he handles a lot at practice and will be a great head coach one day. Winning also helps take care of recruiting and X is in the tournament constantly which will only help.

Yeah, being at a bigger school does make life easier for sure in recruiting. X is in a pretty darn good area though and the Xavier brand is growing, so there is tons of potential to get rolling.

[jco17]

I think Book would make an excellent assistant coach at Xavier if Steele were to leave.

My point was that Mack would be at Xavier for quite some time, so this would be well down the road.

[GoMuskies]

He/she is far from annoying.

I'm with DC on this one. Annoying.

[DC Muskie]

That came directly from Book's mouth. He already had an established relationship with Cook and his family. I didn't say Book would be a good fit a X because he's been at Arizona. I said that because he's a great recruiter and is familier with Xavier. He'd be able to recruit the East Coast extremely well. I don't know how many times, I have to tell you that I follow Xavier too. If it's creepy to have an East Coast team you root for as well as the team you grew up loving, I guess I'm creepy.

There were X fans that were a bit down on some things and I thought a somewhat outside opinion would be nice to hear. We are down a scholarship for next year, so we didn't have room for two pgs in that class. Just because I'm an Arizona fan, that makes me an idiot I guess. Great logic. Your post was extremely hypocritical. I don't come on here to make anybody angry, but you can't get passed me being an Arizona fan.

If Book thinks he would have landed Cook if they didn't have Turner already than Book is a moron. You can tell him I said that. Cook decided to go to a program with a loaded back-court and he decided to go there because he and his family are good friends with Nolan Smith and his family. The kid practically looks up to Smith.

Also with Book, what does is his familiarity with Xavier have anything to do with being a good coach at Xavier? Why are you even suggesting the possibility? You have a good coach who had absolutely zero familiarity of what time zone you were in but seems to be doing fine. Not sure why you think Xavier is some place where a guy needs to be familiar with in order to be a good coach. Does it somehow help he if already knows where the the locker rooms are or something?

You've been on this mission now going on for two years about "helping Xavier fans" who seem to be upset or are still upset about Miller going to Arizona. I for one don't need some reassurance that our stock is rising from someone who decided to become a fan of my program because his current coach came from there. So yes, that's creepy.

What I can't get passed is the idea that somehow just now, at this moment, Xavier has the chance to "get things rolling." Who the hell are you? Some sort of basketball marketing expert? Did Xavier's chances of "rolling" increase because Sean went to Zona?

Xavier is and has been doing great things well before you picked us out of hat and decided to become a fan. A little less condescending tone about how our stock price is doing, and how we got good things going. We win. Not sure if you knew that. Zona's brass sure seemed to. Nike sure seems to think so.

[DC Muskie]

X is in a pretty darn good area though and the Xavier brand is growing, so there is tons of potential to get rolling.

This is what I mean. We have the potential to get rolling? In the last four years we went to 3 Six 16's.

Our brand is growing? No shit. We've been growing our brand for the last twenty years.

[DC Muskie]

The funny thing about recruiting is Book would have never gotten to Cook if he was still at Marist. He got in with Cook because he was from Xavier. Not sure how some kid from DeMatha would know about Xavier because we haven't been growing our brand till about ten minutes ago it seems.

We need to tell Kyle Anderson to stop considering us, because he might not realize our stock is not at the point where he should. Book is really good at east coast recruiting. Since he left we have no way of landing guys like Kyle Anderson. Who is out of St. Anthony.

You've heard of St. Anthony right? Did you know Bob Hurley once thought of accepting a job at Xavier? When Pete Gillen was coach? Back in the 1980's?

Pete is from Brooklyn by the way. He actually tried to recruit Stephon Marbury to Xavier. Granted it lasted about ten seconds, but he represented Xavier. A school someone in Marbury's camp at least heard of.

[jco17]

The funny thing about recruiting is Book would have never gotten to Cook if he was still at Marist. He got in with Cook because he was from Xavier. Not sure how some kid from DeMatha would know about Xavier because we haven't been growing our brand till about ten minutes ago it seems.

We need to tell Kyle Anderson to stop considering us, because he might not realize our stock is not at the point where he should. Book is really good at east coast recruiting. Since he left we have no way of landing guys like Kyle Anderson. Who is out of St. Anthony.

You've heard of St. Anthony right? Did you know Bob Hurley once thought of accepting a job at Xavier? When Pete Gillen was coach? Back in the 1980's?

Pete is from Brooklyn by the way. He actually tried to recruit Stephon Marbury to Xavier. Granted it lasted about ten seconds, but he represented Xavier. A school someone in Marbury's camp at least heard of.

I'm the one being condecending? Do you read your own posts? I guess it's okay for you to be condecending, but it's not okay for me to comment in any way shape or form about Xavier. How you take something and the actual intent of what was being said are two different things.

Okay. I know all of that stuff, yes. Not sure what it has to do with anything I've said or how I've conducted myself on here. It's funny that you think I'm the condecending one, then your entire post is nothing but. That's what you call a hypocrite. Good for you, you don't like me. I get it. Congrats, point made for the 4,000th time.

If I say something I consider a compliment and is in no way meant to be condecending it doesn't matter you still think I am. If I was to disagree with you, I'm a moron. If I like Xavier and go on the board, I'm creepy. Good lord, I'd hate to see what would happen if I bought you a beer.

[jco17]

Nm

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm the one being condecending? Do you read your own posts? I guess it's okay for you to be condecending, but it's not okay for me to comment in any way shape or form about Xavier. How you take something and the actual intent of what was being said are two different things.

Okay. I know all of that stuff, yes. Not sure what it has to do with anything I've said or how I've conducted myself on here. It's funny that you think I'm the condecending one, then your entire post is nothing but. That's what you call a hypocrite. Good for you, you don't like me. I get it. Congrats, point made for the 4,000th time.

If I say something I consider a compliment and is in no way meant to be condecending it doesn't matter you still think I am. If I was to disagree with you, I'm a moron. If I like Xavier and go on the board, I'm creepy. Good lord, I'd hate to see what would happen if I bought you a beer.

I like your contributions to the board.

Just for the record, DCmuskie does have a tendency to aggravate a lot of people on the site (I guess it's all in good fun).

[xavierj]

Mick's problem is, he's not that good of a coach. He's got some really good players to go to Cincy, with little to show. Not a fan of Cronin at all. Archie is a very good coach too, he handles a lot at practice and will be a great head coach one day. Winning also helps take care of recruiting and X is in the tournament constantly which will only help.

Yeah, being at a bigger school does make life easier for sure in recruiting. X is in a pretty darn good area though and the Xavier brand is growing, so there is tons of potential to get rolling.


You do realize Xavier has been to 22 NCAA tourney's in the last 27 years and has been to two elite 8's and 4 sweet 16's in the last 7 years right? I think your wall poster is a great coach but Xavier was good before him and they are good after him so you may want to take a step into reality.

[DC Muskie]

I'm the one being condecending? Do you read your own posts? I guess it's okay for you to be condecending, but it's not okay for me to comment in any way shape or form about Xavier. How you take something and the actual intent of what was being said are two different things.

Okay. I know all of that stuff, yes. Not sure what it has to do with anything I've said or how I've conducted myself on here. It's funny that you think I'm the condecending one, then your entire post is nothing but. That's what you call a hypocrite. Good for you, you don't like me. I get it. Congrats, point made for the 4,000th time.

I don't think you understand the meaning of word condescending. Hell you can't even spell it correctly, so probably not. Whoops, that was pretty condescending.

I'm sticking up for my program, which you seem needs outside perspective to understand we have a good thing going. Do I have that correct? Does that make me a condescending hypocrite? Apparently to you it does.

Your attitude towards us is this:

Xavier has a chance to get things rolling. Xavier stock is on the rise. Winning will help Xavier get better.

That's all pretty condescending from someone who knew nothing about us two years ago.

All I'm doing is pointing out that attitude and tell you it's not appreciated. You now seem intent to focus on my tone, rather than the subject of my posts.

If you insist on coming over here to promote the idea that Xavier needs your opinion that more and more people are knowing our brand, then I will insist that your posts are crap. When you post things like the Book example regarding Cook, I will post actual facts. You focus on feelings and tone. I will focus on reality and facts.

There's not more to it really.

[DC Muskie]

I like your contributions to the board.

Just for the record, DCmuskie does have a tendency to aggravate a lot of people on the site.

No I really don't. I may aggravate you, but then again I have never been banned. Can I say the same for you?

The answer you are looking for is nope.

I think it's perfectly fine for other Xavier fans to appreciate jco's opinions here. I am not one of them. I get repped from a lot of people on this board for the things I have said here. I also get messages off line from people who share the same opinions I do.

I'm pretty sure if we took a poll on this board, more people would find you aggravating than me. I'm pretty confident of that.

At least when I'm pissing people off, I can make them laugh at some point later. Because at the end of the day I really don't take this shit so seriously.

But good job on being completely wrong. Again.

[GoMuskies]

Just for the record, DCmuskie does have a tendency to aggravate a lot of people on the site

See, now this is comedy gold.

[DC Muskie]

If I say something I consider a compliment and is in no way meant to be condecending it doesn't matter you still think I am. If I was to disagree with you, I'm a moron. If I like Xavier and go on the board, I'm creepy. Good lord, I'd hate to see what would happen if I bought you a beer.

Your compliments are pretty condescending. I went from borderline condescending to just straight up condescending.

Again, all you are doing is focusing on my tone. If you bought me a beer, I would take it, drink it, and explain to you that I don't need your compliments.

Then I would buy you shots and drink you under the table. Then I would try and take your girl, who most likely would kick me in my balls and then security would throw me out.

Come to think of it, it would be a pretty typical Wednesday.

[jco17]

[/B]

You do realize Xavier has been to 22 NCAA tourney's in the last 27 years and has been to two elite 8's and 4 sweet 16's in the last 7 years right? I think your wall poster is a great coach but Xavier was good before him and they are good after him so you may want to take a step into reality.

I know they were and I know they are. X is still moving forward, that's the point, the best is yet to come, and there is plenty to be excited about. Zero slight intended. Just excited for the future is all.

[jco17]

Your compliments are pretty condescending. I went from borderline condescending to just straight up condescending.

Again, all you are doing is focusing on my tone. If you bought me a beer, I would take it, drink it, and explain to you that I don't need your compliments.

Then I would buy you shots and drink you under the table. Then I would try and take your girl, who most likely would kick me in my balls and then security would throw me out.

Come to think of it, it would be a pretty typical Wednesday.

Okay, if you were just busting my balls, I'm perfectly fine with that. To be honest though, I never meant to be condecending. I'm excited that Xavier, like always, continues to be successful no matter who they hire as a coach. They take what would be a really tough situation at other programs and use it to fuel their machine that keeps chugging along like hardly anything happened. That to me shows how resilient X and I've always admired Xavier.

Believe it or not, I'm just as excited to see Xavier play as I am Arizona next year. I know you nor Xavier needs my compliments, but they aren't out of condecention, they are out of respect.

[jco17]

I don't think you understand the meaning of word condescending. Hell you can't even spell it correctly, so probably not. Whoops, that was pretty condescending.

I'm sticking up for my program, which you seem needs outside perspective to understand we have a good thing going. Do I have that correct? Does that make me a condescending hypocrite? Apparently to you it does.

Your attitude towards us is this:

Xavier has a chance to get things rolling. Xavier stock is on the rise. Winning will help Xavier get better.

That's all pretty condescending from someone who knew nothing about us two years ago.

All I'm doing is pointing out that attitude and tell you it's not appreciated. You now seem intent to focus on my tone, rather than the subject of my posts.

If you insist on coming over here to promote the idea that Xavier needs your opinion that more and more people are knowing our brand, then I will insist that your posts are crap. When you post things like the Book example regarding Cook, I will post actual facts. You focus on feelings and tone. I will focus on reality and facts.

There's not more to it really.

You're abrasive in the way you go about things. You don't know me personally. Your full focus was on what you thought I was doing and not what I was actually doing. Then all of your posts are filled with what you thought I was doing. That's what made you a hypocrite. Spelling on a message board doesn't carry much weight to me. I know what the word means and I had not intention of being condescending at all. The only fact was that you were being condescending. I told you that wasn't my intent, but you then still assumed that I was trying to be.

Your full intent was to be condescending. You do see the difference correct? My intent which is factual is not to be confrontational. Your intention is to make me angry enough to say something that crosses a line on here and that's not gonna happen. I actually have respect for everybody on this board, which also includes you DC.

[Xavier]

Xavier lost a lot when Miller left- I fully believe he could have taken us all the way. (I mean the guy took Arizona to the elite 8 in just his second year their)- I think he is a top 5 coach in the country and loved his coaching philosiphy. I like Mack- havn't seen enough to feel the way I did about Miller yet- but he has shown some great things. (his in game coaching is great) by no means will X get worse. The recruiting has been better then ever- just from a coaching stand point I thought Miller was one of the better ones. AZ will win it all with Miller at the helm IMO