Big East Tournament [Archive] - Xavier Message Board

QueensbridgeMF

03-08-2011, 12:24 AM

I will be in the house Wednesday night for the Cinci and WVU games, obviously rooting for both of their opponents, most likely Nova and Marquette. Think I got that right. I love the Big East Tourny, so much fun at MSG. Ad the bye, double bye structure is perfect for this conference, the top 4 don't have to play 4 games like a straight 16 team tourny and the bottom 8 have to play 5 to win it all. There are no A10 games weds/thurs so what else are you going to watch?

BandAid

03-08-2011, 08:01 AM

ballyhoohoo

03-08-2011, 08:14 AM

Grass grow. Paint dry. Porn. I can think of a few things...

two girls one cup might be a better option then UC or Hugs

BandAid

03-08-2011, 08:19 AM

two girls one cup might be a better option then UC or Hugs

The one and only time I ever watched that clip I threw up. Not like a little spit-up either but full blown projectile chunks. And despite that terrible experience, you are correct. Watching two girls, one cup > watching UC or Huggs.

whitesox

03-08-2011, 01:25 PM

Article from Stewart Mandel about whether the Big East is as good as its reputation:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/03/07/big.east.tourney/index.html?eref=sihp

Really, mostly rehashes all the same stuff most people have heard. But he did talk to Pomeroy about it, and Pomeroy summarizes exactly how I (and many, I think) feel about the Big East:

However, the Big East isn't held in quite as high esteem in Ken Pomeroy's more precise efficiency-based ratings, which goes beyond wins and losses to assess teams' quality of play. While he has seven Big East teams in his top 25 (and UConn is 26th), the league ranks second overall behind the Big Ten, primarily because "the Big East's 13th to 16th teams may all be worse than the worst Big Ten team [Indiana or Iowa, take your pick]," and the Big East's 11 projected tourney teams (which includes bubble team Marquette) notched nearly 40 percent of their league wins against that pack.
"I don't know about the Big East deserving all of the hype, but I think it's reasonable for them to get 11 teams," Pomeroy said. "There is a lot of parity between their second- and 11th-best teams. None of those teams are particularly great, though."

If Marquette wins today, they probably deserve to get 11 teams in.... but those teams aren't all Final Four contenders like pro-Big East people would have you believe. Really, they have 1 elite team (Pitt) and a bunch of teams that generally aren't that much different than Xavier they way we've played the last two months.

D-West & PO-Z

03-08-2011, 01:35 PM

xavierj

03-08-2011, 02:09 PM

I like Mo too. But people are blinded by the publicity that the Big East gets. It is a good conference but it is also a very inflated conference. The Big East bullshit machine is bigger than the SEC football bullshit machine but at least the SEC actually wins a bunch of football national championships and they can match their hype.

Backyard Champ

03-08-2011, 03:46 PM

I heard Mo Egger say the other day, when he had Mick on, that the Big East tournament might be harder to win than the NCAA tournament. I almost shit myself, but I decided to laugh instead. I like Mo, but that was a ridiculous statement.

This is a common thought by many UC fans. Ridiculous, I know. The big east is always overrated, and it shows in March. Advice for anyone filling out a bracket, do not have any big east team in your final four.

Muskied

03-08-2011, 04:11 PM

I heard Mo Egger say the other day, when he had Mick on, that the Big East tournament might be harder to win than the NCAA tournament. I almost shit myself, but I decided to laugh instead. I like Mo, but that was a ridiculous statement.

That statement is wierd to me since Big East teams traditionally win the Big East tournament.....

sirthought

03-08-2011, 04:18 PM

This is a common thought by many UC fans. Ridiculous, I know. The big east is always overrated, and it shows in March. Advice for anyone filling out a bracket, do not have any big east team in your final four.

Shows in March, huh? They've had success to back it up.

Big East teams account for 40 Final Four appearances and 10 NCAA Championships. Of the Big East's 16 full members, all but South Florida have been to the Final Four, the most of any conference, though Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh made all their trips before joining the Big East.

Final Four teams from the Big East are fairly regular occurrence. That's not saying other schools and conferences aren't as good, but Big East teams are always heavily in the mix. I

Final Four Big East teams
2010 - West Virginia
2009 - Villanova, UCON
2008 - na
2007 - Georgetown
2006 - na
2005 - Louisville (first year in Big East)
2004 - UCON
2003 - Syracuse, Marquette (CUSA Member at the time)

whitesox

03-08-2011, 06:46 PM

Shows in March, huh? They've had success to back it up.

Actually, the Big East has underperformed the most of any major conference over the last 4 years. By a pretty sizable margin.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/02/13/ncaa-tournament-assessing-which-conferences-have-over-and-underperformed/

sirthought

03-08-2011, 07:25 PM

Actually, the Big East has underperformed the most of any major conference over the last 4 years. By a pretty sizable margin.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/02/13/ncaa-tournament-assessing-which-conferences-have-over-and-underperformed/

Isn't this is really measuring a moving target? It's saying they "expected" Big East teams to win 49 games in the NCAA Tournament...the tournament with supposedly the most competitive teams in the nation and getting more parity every year...and they only underperformed by 6.8 games. Big deal.

It's basketball and anything can happen. Who would have expected #11 seed George Mason to beat #1 seed Connecticut? It happens. Who would have thought it would take overtime for a #3 seed Xavier to beat #7 seed West Virginia? It happens, especially in this environment.

Maybe they are overrated, with their super-fortunate TV contracts and media bias looking at only a handful of programs. The Big East still sends quality teams to the tournament and, of those, several have made it far into the tournament. As we Xavier fans can attest, making it past the first round is no easy feat.

whitesox

03-08-2011, 07:43 PM

Isn't this is really measuring a moving target? It's saying they "expected" Big East teams to win 49 games in the NCAA Tournament...the tournament with supposedly the most competitive teams in the nation and getting more parity every year...and they only underperformed by 6.8 games. Big deal.

It's basketball and anything can happen. Who would have expected #11 seed George Mason to beat #1 seed Connecticut? It happens. Who would have thought it would take overtime for a #3 seed Xavier to beat #7 seed West Virginia? It happens, especially in this environment.

Maybe they are overrated, with their super-fortunate TV contracts and media bias looking at only a handful of programs. The Big East still sends quality teams to the tournament and, of those, several have made it far into the tournament. As we Xavier fans can attest, making it past the first round is no easy feat.

The Big East will always have the most raw wins because they have the most teams. That really isn't a relevant number. And yes, teams get upset- but those are accounted for in the "expected wins" formulation and should even out over time. You are right that I should have accounted for number of teams- really, their performance and the ACC's have probably been around equally bad.

The biggest flaw with that was the short time frame- 4 years isn't a ton of data. But there is no question that the Big East performed worse than other conferences during those 4 years. Of course, the value of that can certainly be questioned over a small sample... just wanted to point out that they haven't actually been performing particularly well in the tournament- not horrifically, but not particularly well.

X-band '01

03-08-2011, 08:50 PM

Upset brewing in New York - Villanova is up on South Florida 61-59 with under 5 minutes to play. Not that it would cost Villanova a bid, but this would torpedo their seed a line or two.

waggy

03-08-2011, 08:56 PM

Rutgers beat Seton Hall. Figures. Effin worthless conference.

GoMuskies

03-08-2011, 09:15 PM

Shows in March, huh? They've had success to back it up.

Final Four teams from the Big East are fairly regular occurrence. That's not saying other schools and conferences aren't as good, but Big East teams are always heavily in the mix. I

Final Four Big East teams
2010 - West Virginia
2009 - Villanova, UCON
2008 - na
2007 - Georgetown
2006 - na
2005 - Louisville (first year in Big East)
2004 - UCON
2003 - Syracuse, Marquette (CUSA Member at the time)

For accuracy's sake, I feel it is my duty to point out that Louisville was in C-USA in '05.

X-band '01

03-08-2011, 09:15 PM

Nova's in REAL trouble now - USF stole a pass in front of the basket and got a lay-up to take a 68-67 lead.

Retire33

03-08-2011, 09:19 PM

WOW...how the mighty have fallen.

Jan 24th: 17-2 and #8 in the country
Mar 8th: 21-11 (9-9 BE) and a lose in first round of BE Tourney.

Good for USF. I still believe Stan Heath got a raw deal @ Arkansas

GoMuskies

03-08-2011, 09:19 PM

I hope Nova is the 11 to our 6 or 12 to our 5. They just blow.

X-band '01

03-08-2011, 09:20 PM

And Da Bulls win. UC gets a big break in their opener.

QueensbridgeMF

03-08-2011, 09:20 PM

Wow USF!!! 5 straight losses for Nova

GoMuskies

03-08-2011, 09:21 PM

UC gets a big break in their opener.

USF gets a big break in that they get UC in the next round.

QueensbridgeMF

03-08-2011, 09:22 PM

Definitely a Bulls fan tomorrow night

xsteve1

03-08-2011, 09:26 PM

Nova's lost 10 of 15. They don't even deserve to go to the NCAA's.

gladdenguy

03-08-2011, 09:31 PM

Villanova............NIT

X-band '01

03-08-2011, 09:31 PM

I'd love to see Providence put an end to all the talk that the Big East should get 11 bids once and for all.

QueensbridgeMF

03-08-2011, 09:46 PM

ready to root for my sister's Friars, let's go PC!

QueensbridgeMF

03-08-2011, 10:02 PM

hey P-dence finally scores 5 1/2 minutes in to cut it to 17-2, way to go

xubrew

03-09-2011, 01:15 AM

we've learned that nova can't play without stokes, and that georgetown can't play without wright.

stokes is back, but nova just isn't any good at all. even when they've won, it's been in close games against weak teams. i think marquette is better than both of these teams right now. i don't think georgetown or nova make it past the first round.

i think nova will get in because their overall profile, or "overall body of work" as they like to say is good enough, but they're not a good team right now. same with georgetown. they are just lost without chris wright. it's as if they don't even know what to do out there. i bet uconn beats them tomorrow.

xubrew

03-09-2011, 01:32 AM

actually, i'm now starting to think nova may get left out. they haven't looked even remotely good since the beginning of february. i still think they're in, but not by much.

either way, if they're in, i doubt it will be for long.

GoMuskies

03-09-2011, 01:48 AM

At the very least 'Nova should be forced to visit Dayton.

D-West & PO-Z

03-09-2011, 08:30 AM

No team has ever gotten into the torunamnet losing their last 5 games. I do think though that 'nova becomes the first.

Masterofreality

03-09-2011, 08:42 AM

No team has ever gotten into the torunamnet losing their last 5 games. I do think though that 'nova becomes the first.

This Villanova thing is what really sticks in my craw- and it goes directly to the incessant Big Greased pimping and the gaming of the RPI by that overblown league.

Consider Villanova's "body of work".

-Only a 104 Non-conference SOS.
-3-7 in their last 10
-Lost their last 5
-2 of the games they won were vs DePuke by only 2 and Seton Hall by 3.
-3 losses to teams over 120 in the RPI.

Sorry. That resume is not Dance worthy, but maybe because of the 68 team expanded field, they get in. Xavier has had better resumes in the past and gotten left out.

bearcatalyst

03-09-2011, 10:19 AM

I think Villanova gets in and that it is not particularly close. However, in years past, when the last 10 game metric was still used--they may have been in legitimate trouble. At the end of the day they have put together a ton of good wins, and if the committee truly looks at the entire body of work, they will be in.

Top 100 KenPom rankings:
vs. Bucknell (93)
neural UCLA (39)
vs. Temple (38)
vs. Rutgers (75)
vs. Cincinnati (17)
vs. Louisville (14)
vs. Maryland (36)
@ Syracuse (12)
vs. Marquette (30)
vs. West Virginia (21)
@ Seton Hall (60)

Also, I think a lot of teams in the country would have lost their last four regular season games with this schedule:

vs. Syracuse (12)
vs. St. John's (32)
@ Notre Dame (15)
@ Pittsburgh (6)

When you compare their resume to the incredibly weak bubble, I think they are in at WORST at a 10 seed. However, as previously mentioned, no one should fear them in the dance.

*I hate NOVA, mostly because of Philadelphia, with a passion and would be most pleased if that city never experienced happiness again! Leave me out, in my opinion :)

xubrew

03-09-2011, 10:29 AM

i don't think the committee will use the kenpom ratings all that strongly. i agree that they get in, but wouldn't be at all surprised if they were left out.

the last ten games (or twelve games) was removed from the nitty gritty report. that's it. it wasn't so much as a metric or point of emphasis before as it was another category on the nitty gritty. their schedules are still displayed in chronological order. i'm not saying that the way they finished the season will keep them out, but it will at least be noted that they have been piss poor for the last six weeks.

xubrew

03-09-2011, 01:41 PM

georgetown is refusing to zone uconn. i don't think they'd be winning if they did, but maybe they wouldn't be down by sixteen points.

they also pass up transition opportunities to run their offense, which is never a good idea, but it's even worse when you don't have chris wright.

georgetown will get in, and probably be safely in, but the team that they actually put on the floor will play like a bubble team. if they're seeded #7th or better, that is very fortunate for whoever they're matched up against.

xuwin

03-09-2011, 02:01 PM

I don't think Georgetown or Villanova belong in the NCAA Tournament. I don't care what conference they are in they are bad basketball teams.

xsteve1

03-09-2011, 02:14 PM

I don't think Georgetown or Villanova belong in the NCAA Tournament. I don't care what conference they are in they are bad basketball teams.

I fully agree. Any other conference and these guys would be NIT bound. I always thought teams had to be playing there best basketball at the end of the season not there worst.

SixFig

03-09-2011, 02:50 PM

ESPN has its face firmly planted in and around Steve Lavin's ####. Dude gets more exposure than any non-championship coach I've ever seen. No wonder he is recruiting like a maniac...he's on ESPN more than Scott Van Pelt or Erin Andrews

xubrew

03-09-2011, 04:38 PM

I don't think Georgetown or Villanova belong in the NCAA Tournament. I don't care what conference they are in they are bad basketball teams.

completely agree, although i'm more sympathetic toward georgetown. they're not good now, but at least they were when they were at full strength, and at least they did play and beat some good teams both in and out of conference. you don't want to dismiss that entirely.

i think nova SHOULD be out, but i'm guessing they WILL be in. unfortunately you and i aren't on the committee.

Espe

03-09-2011, 04:41 PM

Rutgers just got jobbed.

TJMuskie06

03-09-2011, 04:43 PM

Rutgers just got jobbed.

Yes they did. That was terrible officiating in the final 15 seconds. A few fouls not called not to mention the travel by St. Johns, stepping out of bounds, and throwing the ball into the stands with 1.7 seconds left. The officials got out of there as fast as they could. Ugly.

XULucho27

03-09-2011, 04:43 PM

Holy Hell. The end of the St. John's - Rutgers game was an embarrassment. I'm usually in the camp that refs do their best but in this case they ABSOLUTELY blew calls. One blatant over the back by a St. John's player with no call. Followed by a player traveling, stepping out of bounds, and chucking the ball into the air all with 1.8 seconds on the clock and Rutgers down by 2.

I'm not saying Rutgers would have won or tied but they completely took it out of the player's hands. It looked borderline shady.

eXdrummer

03-09-2011, 04:44 PM

Rutgers just got jobbed.

Blatantly. I'm not convinced there was a foul on that inbound, but the St. John's player did clearly step out of bounds with just under 2 seconds left. What a moron.

Porkopolis

03-09-2011, 04:48 PM

That was terrible. Apparently refs lose their mind any time they are on the eastern seaboard.

SixFig

03-09-2011, 04:51 PM

I'm calling a conspiracy theory to get the "dream" Syracuse-St. John's Matchup.

Those refs should all be fired.

XULucho27

03-09-2011, 04:53 PM

I'm calling a conspiracy theory to get the "dream" Syracuse-St. John's Matchup.

Those refs should all be fired.

I second the conspiracy idea. That was some blatantly shady reffing.

waggy

03-09-2011, 04:54 PM

You guys should know better than to watch that crap.

xuwin

03-09-2011, 04:56 PM

Rutgers just got jobbed.

Rutgers got screwed, screwed and re-screwed at the end of that game. It's obvious who the Big East wanted to advance in the tournament.

ballyhoohoo

03-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Those refs were not worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on?

xubrew

03-09-2011, 05:01 PM

Those refs were not worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on?

never heard that one before. i damn near did a spittake...

SixFig

03-09-2011, 05:09 PM

Higgins & Burr.

What do you expect.

I'm guessing those guys make six figures at least per year.

Masterofreality

03-09-2011, 05:11 PM

So much for the "benefit" of having a "veteran" officiating crew.

Tim Higgins and Jim Burr- two of the most "experienced" refs in the NCAA were doing that St. Johns/Rutgers game. I've never seen 3 worse non-calls than the last 15 seconds of that game.

The no call on the Rutgers drive, the no call on the "on the back" and then not even checking the clock.

It would definitely appear that either they now just totally suck, or that they knoew where their bread was buttered- and the buttered bread was having the New York team advance in this tournament and to not blow a NCAA seed by losing.

Jeeezuz. John Cahill and Joe DeMayo would have done a better job.

The Big Greased is disgusting.

The_Mack_Pack

03-09-2011, 05:45 PM

Hopefully this spells the end of Burr and Higgins, they flat out suck. Even if they don't want to call fouls down the stretch at least call a turnover and a technical when St. John's chucks the ball into the stands with 1.7 seconds left! Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible.......

THRILLHOUSE

03-09-2011, 05:46 PM

Higgins and Burr are an embarrassment and have no business reffing college ball. Those buffoons would be good refs in the WWE but thats it.

XULucho27

03-09-2011, 06:20 PM

Rutgers head coach Mike Rice is a class act. The guy could go absolutely go bat-sh*t insane and scream bloody murder during press conferences and interviews. Instead, he's taking the high road going out of his way, not only to say that it was a mistake, but also praising the refs saying that they are exceptional referees. Gotta give the guy credit for keeping his cool.

On a related note, I thought Digger Phelps was the dumbest "analyst" on ESPN. However, that distinct honor, for today at least, has to go to Hubert Davis for defending the refs saying that it was impossible to predict the guy would travel, go out of bounds, and throw the ball into the stands. Predict? Isn't their job to watch the game and make calls as they see them? I never knew they had to expect or predict that something would happen for it to be whistled.

I feel dumber for watching ESPN. I don't know why I do it either. I usually don't watch SportsCenter or any of their crap but I just happened upon it when they were discussing the end of the game. Serves me right for not changing the channel immediately. Blah.

smileyy

03-09-2011, 07:59 PM

See, when I first heard about it, i thought the guy had just htrown the ball in the air with like .2 seconds left. But I'm pretty sure if that had happened during normal game flow, he'd be called for a turnover, and a technical for delay of game. The fact that Rutgers should get two free throws and the ball is pretty galling. You can tell how much the Big East is staying away from calling for a technical.

THRILLHOUSE

03-09-2011, 08:04 PM

On a related note, I thought Digger Phelps was the dumbest "analyst" on ESPN. However, that distinct honor, for today at least, has to go to Hubert Davis for defending the refs saying that it was impossible to predict the guy would travel, go out of bounds, and throw the ball into the stands. Predict? Isn't their job to watch the game and make calls as they see them? I never knew they had to expect or predict that something would happen for it to be whistled.

I feel dumber for watching ESPN. I don't know why I do it either. I usually don't watch SportsCenter or any of their crap but I just happened upon it when they were discussing the end of the game. Serves me right for not changing the channel immediately. Blah.

and Digger actually just made sense and talked about how the refs work too many games and that needs to be fixed.

XUglow

03-10-2011, 12:26 PM

Just saw where the refs are out for the rest of the tourney. Poor Rutgers.

ford

03-10-2011, 12:36 PM

i say poor us. A loss by SJ could have helped X's seeding potentially, if ever so slightly, seeing as we are looking at the same 4,5,6 lines.

Masterofreality

03-10-2011, 12:48 PM

So,

Higgins, Burr and the other zebra "withdrew" from the rest of the Big Greased Tournament.

Whatcha wanna bet they show up in Atlantic City tomorrow?

xubrew

03-10-2011, 12:55 PM

So,

Higgins, Burr and the other zebra "withdrew" from the rest of the Big Greased Tournament.

Whatcha wanna bet they show up in Atlantic City tomorrow?

i wouldn't want to bet anything, and that's what disturbs me....

pizza delivery

03-10-2011, 01:10 PM

Not going to start a Big Sky tourney thread, so I guess I'll just gripe right here in the BESPN thread...

Last night Miles Simon (of AZ Wildcats fame) was announcing the Montana - N. Colorado game. His take on who might be the Cinderella this year in the tourney included Belmont, St. Mary's, and Xavier...uhhh, come again? This just shows what people on the west coast know about XU. I wonder how a conversation with Sean Miller and Miles Simon might go?

dc_x

03-10-2011, 02:09 PM

WOW - Did anyone else see what Kemba Walker just did? That was filthy. I feel bad for Gary McGhee because he is going to see that replay for the rest of his life.

SixFig

03-10-2011, 02:14 PM

I swear...the Big East tournament happens just right so every Big East team gets the highest seed possible. Not intentionally, but just the way it happens.

What I means is teams that should be out of the tourney (Rutgers, USF) lose, giving those teams that are already in (SJU, UC) more wins. Teams that already have high seeds (Pitt, WVU) lose, handing more"quality wins" to teams that are fighting for a better seed.

Its maddening, really

xubrew

03-10-2011, 02:16 PM

Masterofreality

03-10-2011, 02:19 PM

WOW - Did anyone else see what Kemba Walker just did? That was filthy. I feel bad for Gary McGhee because he is going to see that replay for the rest of his life.

Pitt was stupid for switching on that screen. They had plenty of time not to do it.

That was nasty, but it was a great game.

That coming from Big Greased hata.

Masterofreality

03-10-2011, 04:34 PM

What is on Gene Keady's head?

Half combover? A small furry squirrell? A Skullcap? I can't tell.

What ever it is, it is not a good look.

X-band '01

03-10-2011, 08:05 PM

Pitt doesn't care - maybe they lose a 1 seed but nothing more.

UConn needed that game more and it showed. I'd hate to see Kemba Walker with a game on the line.

ballyhoohoo

03-11-2011, 11:38 AM

one more reason why the big east sucks

We all know Nick Lachey is a big sports fan…. so he’s written an anthem for the Big East Conference to debut Saturday during the Big East basketball tournament finals at Madison Square Garden. His song “Last One Standing” was written specifically for the Big East.

I am setting the over/under for cliches at 10.5

pizza delivery

03-11-2011, 09:23 PM

Is Kemba Walker a #1 pick?

Juice

03-12-2011, 12:49 PM

Is Kemba Walker a #1 pick?

Absolutely not.

Kyrie Irving

Espe

03-12-2011, 01:01 PM

Notre Dame will go out early in the Dance; mark it down.

Backyard Champ

03-20-2011, 12:03 AM

Shows in March, huh? They've had success to back it up.

Hate to be "that guy" but, it shows in march. They have probably 3 teams make the sweet 16 out of 11 possibilities. Who knows what happens if they don't get to play each other in the second round to get 2 guarantee sweet 16's. Again, don't pick big east in march.