Jordan Crawford Interview on FSN OH

[BlueGuy]

What was that? Did he realize he was on TV? Almost seemed like he doesn't like Jim Day, and was pissed about having to do the interview..... strange.

[mohr5150]

He definitely came off as a major dick. That was too bad.

[stophorseabuse]

Maybe he just got a nasty text from his girlfriend. Never seen JC like that. The fact this is where he came for his break though says enough. He is a millioniarre. I cant even spell that :). I would not have regrets either. I bet he didn't know he would be interviewed and was a bit pist.

[XUOWNSUC]

I bet he didn't know he would be interviewed and was a bit pist.

Jordan knew he was being interviewed - in the first half Jim Day said that he asked Jordan if he could interview him and Jordan said that it would be ok if he did the interview in the second half.

I actually didn't think the interview was that bad until the last question when Day asked Jordan if he had any regrets about leaving early for the NBA. Honestly the tone of the question made it seem like Day was inferring that it was a bad decision. If I were Jordan, I would have been irritated too.

I'm sure Jordan probably just wanted to be with his boys and catch a game. Nothing wrong with that.

[GoMuskies]

Seems like a fair question since JC plays the same number of minutes as I do in most Hawks games.

Granted, he gets paid a helluva lot more for his 0 minutes than I do!

[GuyFawkes38]

Seems like a fair question since JC plays the same number of minutes as I do in most Hawks games.

Granted, he gets paid a helluva lot more for his 0 minutes than I do!

Rookies typically just don't play much in the NBA these days.

Anytime your a projected first rounder, you should bolt. Lots of times when your a projected 2nd rounder, you should bolt too.

[GoMuskies]

Rookies typically just don't play much in the NBA these days.


I think that's overstating it a bit. Pondexter and Vasquez, drafted before him and after him, have certainly played a helluva lot more than he has.

[XUOWNSUC]

Granted, he gets paid a helluva lot more for his 0 minutes than I do!

That's exactly why I think it's a stupid question.

[GoMuskies]

That's exactly why I think it's a stupid question.

I don't think that makes it a stupid question. That's certainly a pretty good argument for why it was the right decision for him to have gone. But I don't think it's definitive by any means.

[Snipe]

Maybe it would have been better for Jordan if he would have stayed. He would be a Junior, along with Holloway and Frease. Talk about a class.

He isn't playing in the NBA. It is better to be playing than not playing. He could have stayed and increased his draft stock. Imagine this team with Junior Jorday Crawford. He has to be thinking that too when watching the game. Looks to me like he went too soon and it will hurt his development as a player by not playing.

[LyonsIsFlyin]

We also have to remember the Hawks are a very talented team as well that is simply just having an off year, while I believe Vasquez is playing for Memphis, which is much improved, but one could make the argument they are overachieving and still doesn't look like a great team.

JD definitely sounded like he was inferring Jordan should have come back so JC's disinterest with responding came as no surprise to me.

[GuyFawkes38]

He isn't playing in the NBA. It is better to be playing than not playing. He could have stayed and increased his draft stock. Imagine this team with Junior Jorday Crawford. He has to be thinking that too when watching the game. Looks to me like he went too soon and it will hurt his development as a player by not playing.

Yikes!!! come on now Snipe.

I remember you said the same thing with Derrick Brown. Perhaps in his case, that argument has more weight (I still strongly disagree).

You simply can't turn down a 1st round draft spot. To be 100% honest, I think it was a bad move for West to stay an additional year.

Players risk injury. And there's a much better chance that they lose spots rather than gain. For Jordan Crawford, a late 1st rounder, that would be a disaster.

This board is too college basketball centric. It's easy to forget that nearly every basketball player in the country would rather ride the bench in the NBA for a year than have a great 4 year college career.

[wkrq59]

First, there are two ways to ask that question."Do you have any regrets about leaving early?" or No regrets about leaving early, are there? " The one demands an answer. The other, really rhetorical, implies the answer is already known.
That said, and from his tweets Crawford remains close to his former teammates, especially Holloway, whom he quite often refers to, and that worries me.
Unlike you Guy, for maybe a rare occasion, I agree with Snipe. I sincerely hope that Tu is not too influenced by JC, because they are very different. Yes, both can take over a game and dominate. But JC is bigger and in no way as good at setting up and feeding teammates. Two triple doubles, the only player in Xavier's storied history to do that. Saturday night was proof positive that Tu is a better point guard. There is so much awaiting him next year. His parents can take out an insurance policy, he will almost certainly be chosen captain, and he could be part of the best team in Xavier's history. The talent will be there.
Should Crawford have stayed? Probably no. But he was fortunate to be drafted in that first round. I hope something happens that gives JC more playing time. And I hope that Tu gets the correct advice from everyone who counts.
:logo::shield::sword:

[Titanxman04]

Jim Day is a total douche-schnozzle.

http://jimday.com/images/jim_mic_1l9w.jpg

^^^^^^What a douche-bag!

[DC Muskie]

There is no way to answer that question. Say yes, and people will be upset that he left.

Say no, and people will think it was stupid because he didn't stay.

So really, what exactly is the point of the question? There really is no point.

That's why it's a stupid question to ask. And Jordan has probably heard a million times.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I agree, it was a dumb question by Day and I was hoping he wouldn't ask it. Jordan Crawford did not make a mistake. He was a first round NBA draft pick which is the dream of every basketball player. It was also the right choice because who knows if there is even a season next year. Assuming they do play next year, Jordan should get more PT if the Hawks dont re-sign Jamal Crawford. Stupid question which deserved the response that Jordan gave.

[bobbiemcgee]

"He isn't playing in the NBA. It is better to be playing than not playing. He could have stayed and increased his draft stock. Imagine this team with Junior Jorday Crawford. He has to be thinking that too when watching the game. Looks to me like he went too soon and it will hurt his development as a player by not playing."





or he coulda sustained a career ending injury and never made a dime.....he was right to take the $

[kyxu]

He isn't playing in the NBA. It is better to be playing than not playing. He could have stayed and increased his draft stock. Imagine this team with Junior Jorday Crawford. He has to be thinking that too when watching the game. Looks to me like he went too soon and it will hurt his development as a player by not playing.

I'm sorry, but this makes zero sense.

He was drafted in the first round, and got guaranteed seven figures. It was his dream to play in the NBA, and his career is not quite a year old. I don't see how one could say that he left too soon. There's no guarantee that had he stuck around for this year that his stock would have been as high. Even if it was, the payout likely would not be much higher than what he got now. I don't agree that one more year in college would mean he'd likely get more play his rookie year in the pros. Crawford's a scorer. He left Xavier scoring a lot of points. He struck while the iron was hot, and and it paid off. Boy, did it pay off. He has plenty of time to become a big time player in the league, he just has to take his early lumps and continue to work at it.

Also, people incorrectly assume that once players get to the NBA, their development stops, and they'll continue to be the same player they were when they got drafted. There are so many examples to the contrary, it's almost not worth addressing. I mean, look no further than our own David West. He did nothing his first few years in the NBA before becoming an All-Star.

[Fireball]

Although it is disappointing that Jordan is playing sparingly in the NBA when he could have been playing lots of minutes for Xavier this year, it's hard to criticism him when he was a first round pick and he is making a nice chunk of change.

It was just a stupid question by Day. He should have questioned Crawford as if he was a senior who had played out his eligibility. Is was an uncomfortable moment that you could just see coming and you hoped that it Day would not ask it. It does absolutely no good to the player or fans to ask about this, and we're not on "Outside the Lines".

[romanround]

Maybe he can develop a lot while counting his money. No one in their right mind would pass up the opportunity to cash in on a million $ or more when the possibility of a career ending injury is on the other side of the equation.

[Xavier]

Maybe it would have been better for Jordan if he would have stayed. He would be a Junior, along with Holloway and Frease. Talk about a class.

He isn't playing in the NBA. It is better to be playing than not playing. He could have stayed and increased his draft stock. Imagine this team with Junior Jorday Crawford. He has to be thinking that too when watching the game. Looks to me like he went too soon and it will hurt his development as a player by not playing.

Wrong. He is learning a lot more on that NBA bench then he ever could at Xavier. (or any other college for that matter)

[GoMuskies]

Wrong. He is learning a lot more on that NBA bench then he ever could at Xavier. (or any other college for that matter)

Yeah, I'm not sure that's true. I don't think you get better sitting and watching. And it's not like he was so dominant at the college level that he wasn't going to be challenged. He had plenty left to learn at the college level.

I don't think there's a clear answer as to whether it was the right decision for him to go. But as long as he's happy, that's all that really matters.

[Xavier]

Yeah, I'm not sure that's true. I don't think you get better sitting and watching. And it's not like he was so dominant at the college level that he wasn't going to be challenged. He had plenty left to learn at the college level.

I don't think there's a clear answer as to whether it was the right decision for him to go. But as long as he's happy, that's all that really matters.

1- He get to practice and play against NBA players every day.
2- He has NBA coaches that will tell him/teach him what he needs to work on in order to stay in the NBA.

I think its obvious you will learn more sitting on an NBA bench, going through practices and having NBA teachers then you will playing in the NCAA.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm sorry, but this makes zero sense.

He was drafted in the first round, and got guaranteed seven figures. It was his dream to play in the NBA, and his career is not quite a year old. I don't see how one could say that he left too soon. There's no guarantee that had he stuck around for this year that his stock would have been as high. Even if it was, the payout likely would not be much higher than what he got now. I don't agree that one more year in college would mean he'd likely get more play his rookie year in the pros. Crawford's a scorer. He left Xavier scoring a lot of points. He struck while the iron was hot, and and it paid off. Boy, did it pay off. He has plenty of time to become a big time player in the league, he just has to take his early lumps and continue to work at it.

Also, people incorrectly assume that once players get to the NBA, their development stops, and they'll continue to be the same player they were when they got drafted. There are so many examples to the contrary, it's almost not worth addressing. I mean, look no further than our own David West. He did nothing his first few years in the NBA before becoming an All-Star.

This. While I would have loved for Jordan to stay, there isnt any doubt in my mind he made the right decision. With Jamal Crawford being a free agent after ther year, and the Hawks almost certainly wont be resigning him, Jordan should have more opportunity to play next year. Jordan was coming off the best stretch of games of his career, he left at the right time to take advantage of it.

[GoMuskies]

1- He get to practice and play against NBA players every day.
2- He has NBA coaches that will tell him/teach him what he needs to work on in order to stay in the NBA.

I think its obvious you will learn more sitting on an NBA bench, going through practices and having NBA teachers then you will playing in the NCAA.

OK. I don't think you get better not playing.

[Xavier]

OK. I don't think you get better not playing.

Touche, Id rather learn from an NBA coach then an NCAA coach- their is a reason they are in the NBA. Beating up on bad a-10 teams wont make you a better NBA player- practicing against NBA players on a daily basis will.

[xuwin]

Touche, Id rather learn from an NBA coach then an NCAA coach- their is a reason they are in the NBA. Beating up on bad a-10 teams wont make you a better NBA player- practicing against NBA players on a daily basis will.

As rigorous as the NBA schedule is I doubt that they do a lot of heavy scrimmaging once the season starts.

[RoseyMuskie]

I agree that it was kind of a dumb question, but all JC had to say was this "No I don't regret the decision, but I miss my teammates, coaches, etc." He would've come off a lot better.

[BlueGuy]

I agree that it was kind of a dumb question, but all JC had to say was this "No I don't regret the decision, but I miss my teammates, coaches, etc." He would've come off a lot better.

Exactly. Instead he said "nahhhh" while slumped back in his seat. I didn't mean to bring up the whole NBA bs college debate. I just didn't like his attitude the entire interview. It was all just strange.

[GuyFawkes38]

I watch a lot of college basketball and the NBA.

It's amazing how quickly NBA rookies and sophomores improve their shots in the NBA. I talked to someone about this with some experience in the NBA. He told me that assistant coaches and trainers are very well qualified and the players have more time to practice.

Of course, that makes sense. NBA teams have bigger budgets and they want to get absolutely everything out of their expensive players.

But I think some college basketball fans don't appreciate that fully and believe incorrectly that college is a much better place to develop than the NBA.

[Juice]

But I think college basketball fans don't appreciate that and believe incorrectly that college is a much better place to develop than the NBA.

I agree with this especially with the way teams are now using the D League. It was originally used as a place for teams to dump their unwanted garbage. Teams are now using it as a place for players to get playing time and develop their skills. Terrence Williams of the Nets (before he was traded to Houston) and James Johnson of the Bulls were sent down and have been brought back up. Teams are now using it like the minor league system of baseball.

[GuyFawkes38]

I agree with this especially with the way teams are now using the D League. It was originally used as a place for teams to dump their unwanted garbage. Teams are now using it as a place for players to get playing time and develop their skills. Terrence Williams of the Nets (before he was traded to Houston) and James Johnson of the Bulls were sent down and have been brought back up. Teams are now using it like the minor league system of baseball.

In all seriousness, I wish Cincinnati had a D league team. I think that'd be fun for basketball geeks.

[Porkopolis]

In all seriousness, I wish Cincinnati had a D league team. I think that'd be fun for basketball geeks.

I agree. It would be a great way to fill out US Bank Arena's calendar at minimal cost.

[XU2424]

Rosie is correct (in MY opinion)...just say, "nah I don't think I made a bad choice or I don't miss it much, BUT I DO miss my teammates and coaches, college was a great time time, I learned a lot, etc.etc."
Jordan's answer was "NAH". Jim Day is a REPORTER, he asked a typical REPORTER question, quit making excuses for Jordan. If he didn't want to talk to Jim Day, then he should have said "NO", he can't interview you without permission. NBA players should have had more challenging questions than that, or at least have some couth in answering them.

[CinciX12]

http://c0013654.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_4b0e121

I would have a similar expression if I was forced to talk to Jim Day.

[DC Muskie]

Rosie is correct (in MY opinion)...just say, "nah I don't think I made a bad choice or I don't miss it much, BUT I DO miss my teammates and coaches, college was a great time time, I learned a lot, etc.etc."
Jordan's answer was "NAH". Jim Day is a REPORTER, he asked a typical REPORTER question, quit making excuses for Jordan. If he didn't want to talk to Jim Day, then he should have said "NO", he can't interview you without permission. NBA players should have had more challenging questions than that, or at least have some couth in answering them.

I'm sorry that's most asinine reason I have heard. Jim Day is a reporter who asked a typical reporter question? It's typical to ask someone if they regret a decision they made in their lives? I think those types of questions would be reserved for people who have done some harm to others. Not some guy ho decided to move forward with his career.

I also think it's funny how we expected a different response. One that we would find acceptable. He's at the game for crying out loud. Of course he misses his teammates. He obviously feels connected to the university. So he should have had a better answer to a stupid question? That makes zero sense.

Did you notice Shannon's questions to Jordan? There was no mention of whether he feels regret about leaving. You know why? Because it's a nonsensical question to ask. Do you think Jordan would have have broken down, began to cry that he isn't here playing at Xavier?

Quit making excuses for Jim Day. Check out his web page, where at the end of his bio he references a Chris Farley joke from about 15 years ago. If he is a reporter, he isn't a very good one. Jordan probably knew that, and when that question came up, he probably thought the guy was the clown that he obviously is.

[RoseyMuskie]

DC

-Agree that Jim Day isn't too good of a reporter.

-I'm sure JC was pestered by him.

-Of course he wouldn't have broken down or anything. And we all know JC still cares about X.

But JC agreed to the interview and any logical person could've guessed that question was coming. Just answer in a respectable manner and move on. I'm sure JC learned that in his media class at X and has enough experience with interviews to know better.

[DC Muskie]

I'm sorry that's just flat out laughable.

By your logic, a bad reporter who asks bad questions, should get good answers and move on.

I can tell you this. Jordan has moved on. Asking him if he regrets leaving means that Jim Day, you and others who think the question is logical and acceptable means you haven't.

I don't remember anyone asking Jordan if he regretted leaving Indiana. That seems to be a logical question when he transferred here right?

If you don't feel that way, then you are assuming that being at Xavier is the best thing for Jordan. Transferring here is non regrettable proposition, leaving here to be a millionaire however, is.

You have admitted Day isn't any good. You admit he was probably pestering Jordan, you admit that it's obvious that Jordan still cares about the program.

And yet you seem to think that the question is logical and acceptable and Jordan's answer was neither.

I guess we have different logic. And I took many media classes at Xavier and I can't remember ever having one of my professors ever teaching me to give answers to ridiculous questions in an acceptable manner to outside people who may be watching, simply because not doing so will annoy them.

[waggy]

It's a stupid question, but part of being a professional athlete is professionally handling stupid questions.

[DC Muskie]

but part of being a professional athlete is professionally handling stupid questions.

And as far as I'm concerned he did.

[Espe]

I fell sorry for Jordan that he had to sit by Jim Day for 2 hours.

[CinciX12]

I fell sorry for Jordan that he had to sit by Jim Day for 2 hours.

Lol he didn't. He only came over for the interview. He sat by CJ and some other little kid who is probably now scarred for the remainder of his life.

[Kahns Krazy]

Why wasn't JC in a box?

[Snipe]

His stats (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4243/jordan-crawford) don't look that good. Maybe we should just gloss over that.

He has played one game in February and only 16 games on the year. He isn't playing and he is shooting 35% from the field. Perhaps he could have used another year. Perhaps he could have been a better and more well rounded player when he went to the NBA if he had stayed. It is not sacrilegious to say that outloud.

David West played 71 games in his rookie year. James Posey played 81. They also played more minutes and scored more points. Of course, they were also seniors.

There is gold at the end of the rainbow for sure, but timing is always of the essence. I am not sure that Derrick Brown even has a job in the NBA next year. That two year contract expires, and his team should be able to replace the 3.8 points a game in the few games that he does indeed even play.

Cold hard reality. Deal with it. Life is a struggle.

I have never made Jordan's money, so kudos to him for killing me in the marketplace. I never thought we were in competition though, and I doubt his goal was to outpace me. He probably wanted to actually play in the NBA. I would say the same for Derrick Brown.

Sometimes this is how it all ends. Too bad for bad advice. If I was Jordan I wouldn't publicly regret it either. What can he do now but play out the string? Good luck with that Jordan. Good luck with that Derrick.

Paul Brown used to give a talk to the men he cut. "Now is the time to get on with your life's work". I am sure the Hall of Famer was inspirational.

I hope they prosper and do well. I root for all of our kids. I wish they would have made better decisions on their future.

[Xavier]

Joe Crawford is a FA this summer I believe most don't expect him to resign with ATL. This will give Crawford much more PT next year--I also think its never bad advice to leave and get drafted in the First round. He would not of improved his draft stock too much- and think if the NBA has a lock out and no draft Crawford would be 25 before the next draft- you simply can't take your chances on that. He would be screwed and more then likely drafted in the second round at 25 years old.

[kyxu]

His stats (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4243/jordan-crawford) don't look that good. Maybe we should just gloss over that.

He has played one game in February and only 16 games on the year. He isn't playing and he is shooting 35% from the field. Perhaps he could have used another year. Perhaps he could have been a better and more well rounded player when he went to the NBA if he had stayed. It is not sacrilegious to say that outloud.

David West played 71 games in his rookie year. James Posey played 81. They also played more minutes and scored more points. Of course, they were also seniors.

There is gold at the end of the rainbow for sure, but timing is always of the essence. I am not sure that Derrick Brown even has a job in the NBA next year. That two year contract expires, and his team should be able to replace the 3.8 points a game in the few games that he does indeed even play.

Cold hard reality. Deal with it. Life is a struggle.

I have never made Jordan's money, so kudos to him for killing me in the marketplace. I never thought we were in competition though, and I doubt his goal was to outpace me. He probably wanted to actually play in the NBA. I would say the same for Derrick Brown.

Sometimes this is how it all ends. Too bad for bad advice. If I was Jordan I wouldn't publicly regret it either. What can he do now but play out the string? Good luck with that Jordan. Good luck with that Derrick.

Paul Brown used to give a talk to the men he cut. "Now is the time to get on with your life's work". I am sure the Hall of Famer was inspirational.

I hope they prosper and do well. I root for all of our kids. I wish they would have made better decisions on their future.

That's all well and good, but please explain the correlation between staying an additional year to do something you were already doing quite well at the end of your junior year, and immediate NBA prosperity.

"Too bad for bad advice." Hilarious. You make it sound like it's too late for them, and whatever shortcomings they have in their professional game would have been magically cured by staying another year in college.

[RoseyMuskie]

I'm sorry that's just flat out laughable.

By your logic, a bad reporter who asks bad questions, should get good answers and move on.

I can tell you this. Jordan has moved on. Asking him if he regrets leaving means that Jim Day, you and others who think the question is logical and acceptable means you haven't.

I don't remember anyone asking Jordan if he regretted leaving Indiana. That seems to be a logical question when he transferred here right?

If you don't feel that way, then you are assuming that being at Xavier is the best thing for Jordan. Transferring here is non regrettable proposition, leaving here to be a millionaire however, is.

You have admitted Day isn't any good. You admit he was probably pestering Jordan, you admit that it's obvious that Jordan still cares about the program.

And yet you seem to think that the question is logical and acceptable and Jordan's answer was neither.

I guess we have different logic. And I took many media classes at Xavier and I can't remember ever having one of my professors ever teaching me to give answers to ridiculous questions in an acceptable manner to outside people who may be watching, simply because not doing so will annoy them.

Yes, even though I felt it was a bad question, you still provide a respectable answer. You prove that you are better than the reporter. That's logic that isn't laughable and is taught to athletes all around.

JC didn't annoy me. I just felt he came off poorly, which is a shame, because he stooped to Day level.

I don't think being at Xavier would be the best thing for Jordan. I agree being a millionaire is better. But when you have a crappy reporter ask a crappy question I still believe you provide a respectable answer and stay positive to look better than the reporter.

If anything, he provides some generic answer, and we aren't having this debate now.

[Snipe]

That's all well and good, but please explain the correlation between staying an additional year to do something you were already doing quite well at the end of your junior year, and immediate NBA prosperity.

"Too bad for bad advice." Hilarious. You make it sound like it's too late for them, and whatever shortcomings they have in their professional game would have been magically cured by staying another year in college.

I wonder why he ever went to college. Why didn't he go straight to the NBA? Why not? Was their an expectation that he would develop some more in college with playing time? What rubbish? Tyrone Hill should have been a lottery pick out of Withrow. Brian Grant should have been a lottery pick straight out of Brown County. Your argument is laughable.

Keep it up though. Keep up the good fight.

Brian Grant ~ Senior (Lottery Pick)
Tyron Hill ~ Senior (Lottery Pick)
Aaron Williams ~ Senior
Derick Strong ~ Senior
James Posey ~ Senior
David Freaking West ~ Player of the Year ~ Senior

Do any of these guys have anything in common?

Pardon me while I laugh you off the stage.

Next?

[Xavier]

The year of experience of life in the NBA will go much further for Crawford then dominating A-10 teams would. Again what would happen if their was a lock out? JC would have to wait another year? No way he is a first rounder at that point- not a chance...too old to waste a first round pick on him when you can get a 20-22 year old. Smart move to go when you can.

[kyxu]

I wonder why he ever went to college. Why didn't he go straight to the NBA? Why not? Was their an expectation that he would develop some more in college with playing time? What rubbish? Tyrone Hill should have been a lottery pick out of Withrow. Brian Grant should have been a lottery pick straight out of Brown County. Your argument is laughable.

Keep it up though. Keep up the good fight.

Brian Grant ~ Senior (Lottery Pick)
Tyron Hill ~ Senior (Lottery Pick)
Aaron Williams ~ Senior
Derick Strong ~ Senior
James Posey ~ Senior
David Freaking West ~ Player of the Year ~ Senior

Do any of these guys have anything in common?

Pardon me while I laugh you off the stage.

Next?

Educate me, Lord Snipe. Please. What aspect of Jordan Crawford's game is so deficient that had he stayed just one more year in college, he would magically be thrust into the starting lineup of the Atlanta Hawks?? Please, tell me, just before I exit the stage of your judgment. There's obviously one or two more ingredients from Xavier's everlasting development well from which Jordan did not drink that are the key ingredient that he missed in his senior year. Please enlighten me, but only if I'm worthy.

For every David West or Brian Grant you mention, there are about 100 other guys in college basketball (yes, there are other teams besides Xavier) that left early and made it big. And West was a predicted first rounder after his junior season. With his given ability and work ethic, do you think David West would have been worse of player had he gone in the '02 draft?

And didn't James Posey leave Xavier with still a year of eligibility left??? Why, that's just like Derrick Brown!! But of course, as you would surmise, Lord Snipe, had Posey stayed just one more year at Xavier, no doubt, he would have been the overall #1 pick in the 1998 draft rather than only #18 and probably would have three NBA titles rather than just two. Why oh why didn't James Posey exhaust his eligibility??? He obviously got bad advice.

But I'll exit the stage now, Lord Snipe.

[Snipe]

So why didn't he go straight to the NBA then? Why waste anytime at Xavier when the NBA clock is ticking? At some point people have to concede that playing here helps them.

I think it does too.

[GuyFawkes38]

Like I said before, West should have left after his junior year (he probably dropped a couple spots). Nearly everyone advised him to leave early (Darnell Williams called him and begged him to leave).

Crawford would have been an idiot to pass up a first round spot.

[GuyFawkes38]

So why didn't he go straight to the NBA then? Why waste anytime at Xavier when the NBA clock is ticking? At some point people have to concede that playing here helps them.

I think it does too.

I don't think he had a 2nd round spot after his year at IU.

If he would have a solid 2nd round draft prospect he probably would have gone to the NBA. If he would have had a 1st round spot, he surely would have bolted.

[Kahns Krazy]

Somone peed in kyxu's cheerios.

[kyxu]

So why didn't he go straight to the NBA then? Why waste anytime at Xavier when the NBA clock is ticking? At some point people have to concede that playing here helps them.

I think it does too.

I think many would agree that the decision to leave college early for the NBA is multi-faceted. It's not just about how one has developed and whether they are now the best player they can be, but what kind of draft market you're facing (and even if there's going to be a draft at all, which was a very real concern last Spring), and how "hot" they are at the time when you're supposed to declare.

Regarding player development, no doubt Jordan got the opportunity to work and develop during his two years at Xavier. But there's a strong possibility he and others around him felt his development in the college game had plateaued, and that after his showing in the 2010 NCAA Tournament, the getting was good and maybe about as good as it would get. It's easier to STAY in the NBA if you're a first-rounder, rather than working there from the second round, Europe or the D-League. I think the hardest part is just getting there, and once you're there, you have the resources and the competition of your teammates for you to develop into the best possible player you can be, and to subsequently stay there.

For Jordan Crawford, he could either leave Xavier when he did when he was a hot name right then, or he could wait another year and MAYBE he would have another quality season. Do you take the pot now when it's pretty high, or wait for it when it COULD be higher, yet not guaranteed to be there at all? It's a gamble, no doubt, but Crawford did it and WON.

After he went in the first round, I thought the debate was over as to whether it was a good decision, but I guess for some people it isn't.

[Xavier]

I don't think he had a 2nd round spot after his year at IU.

If he would have a solid 2nd round draft prospect he probably would have gone to the NBA. If he would have had a 1st round spot, he surely would have bolted.

Agreed 100%. He went to college to become a 1st round pick- as soon as he was he bolted. Whats so hard to understand about that Snipe? Playing at IU and XU helped him get his dream- staying one more year only hurts his chances of being a 1st rounder.

[Snipe]

16 games says that debate isn't over. He played in all 16 of them. Woo Hoo.

Derrick Brown isn't doing that much for the cause either with his 3.8 ppg. Both could have been All Americans. They were not when they left. They certainly had higher to climb had they stayed, and Brown especially could have more in his game to develop.

[Xavier]

16 games says that debate isn't over. He played in all 16 of them. Woo Hoo.

Derrick Brown isn't doing that much for the cause either with his 3.8 ppg. Both could have been All Americans. They were not when they left. They certainly had higher to climb had they stayed, and Brown especially could have more in his game to develop.

Crawford could only hurt his draft stock by staying. Brown could have improved- but he got signed so it was a good idea to go. They will develop more under an NBA coach then at Xavier- don't kid yourself.

[Snipe]

Agreed 100%. He went to college to become a 1st round pick- as soon as he was he bolted. Whats so hard to understand about that Snipe? Playing at IU and XU helped him get his dream- staying one more year only hurts his chances of being a 1st rounder.

I simply don't agree with you. I do understand that he was drafted. I do see that he isn't playing. We can all see that. I wonder what he would be doing as a Junior at Xavier and if that would have helped his career. I think it is silly that people dismiss the notion outright after our history of developing players.

I don't consider your argument a very serious one considering the facts and circumstances.

[Xavier]

I simply don't agree with you. I do understand that he was drafted. I do see that he isn't playing. We can all see that. I wonder what he would be doing as a Junior at Xavier and if that would have helped his career. I think it is silly that people dismiss the notion outright after our history of developing players.

I don't consider your argument a very serious one considering the facts and circumstances.

Please don't tell me you think Xavier can develop players better then NBA coaches/teams can?

[Snipe]

Brian Grant. David West. Tyrone Hill. Derick Strong. Aaron Williams.

Please don't tell me your moniker is "Xavier" and you are in fact ignorant of the history of Xavier basketball.

[kyxu]

16 games says that debate isn't over. He played in all 16 of them. Woo Hoo.

Derrick Brown isn't doing that much for the cause either with his 3.8 ppg. Both could have been All Americans. They were not when they left. They certainly had higher to climb had they stayed, and Brown especially could have more in his game to develop.

Or they could not have been. Or they could have gotten injured. Or they could have had the same kind of season and increased their draft stock none (like David West). I think that's what goes through players' minds when presented with this situation.

Thus far, all we know of Jordan Crawford's NBA career is half his rookie season. Seriously, I want to know how an additional year of playing college basketball would mean he'd be an impact player right now in his rookie season.

I'm just not sure what more Crawford could have done for his own individual game by staying an additional year at Xavier. Everyone knew he could score at will by the time he left.

[kyxu]

Brian Grant. David West. Tyrone Hill. Derick Strong. Aaron Williams.

Please don't tell me your moniker is "Xavier" and you are in fact ignorant of the history of Xavier basketball.


Aaron Williams went undrafted and played in six total games his first season with the Jazz.

David West averaged less than four points per game as a rookie.

Tyrone Hill averaged five points per game as a rookie.

Derek Strong appeared in ONE game his first season, scoring just three points.

Brian Grant (13 ppg) is the only one of your examples that did much of anything his first year in the league.

Jordan Crawford is averaging four points per game.

It would appear these former Xavier players developed significantly from their first year in the NBA and on. No reason to believe the same can't happen for Jordan Crawford.

[GuyFawkes38]

The sole determining factor that Snipe judges on the complex decision of Brown and Crawford leaving early is playing time their first and second years.

They both could have received more playing time in Germany. By Snipes logic, playing overseas would have made more sense than in the NBA.

[Xavier]

Aaron Williams went undrafted and played in six total games his first season with the Jazz.

David West averaged less than four points per game as a rookie.

Tyrone Hill averaged five points per game as a rookie.

Derek Strong appeared in ONE game his first season, scoring just three points.

Brian Grant (13 ppg) is the only one of your examples that did much of anything his first year in the league.

Jordan Crawford is averaging four points per game.

It would appear these former Xavier players developed significantly from their first year in the NBA and on. No reason to believe the same can't happen for Jordan Crawford.

Come on now- those guys played 4 years at Xavier- they were in a much better spot then both Crawford and Brown to succeed. HA- I wonder what Snipe would have said after those guys rookie years. Thanks for bringing the stats to the table.

[Xavier]

Brian Grant. David West. Tyrone Hill. Derick Strong. Aaron Williams.

Please don't tell me your moniker is "Xavier" and you are in fact ignorant of the history of Xavier basketball.

They all developed very nicely under an NBA coach. When coming out of Xavier only 1 of them had a good rookie season. Thanks to KYXU for proving my point though: NBA coaches will develop you much more then Xavier coaches. I mean is this seriously an argument?

[Snipe]

Aaron Williams went undrafted and played in six total games his first season with the Jazz.

David West averaged less than four points per game as a rookie.

Tyrone Hill averaged five points per game as a rookie.

Derek Strong appeared in ONE game his first season, scoring just three points.

Brian Grant (13 ppg) is the only one of your examples that did much of anything his first year in the league.

Jordan Crawford is averaging four points per game.

It would appear these former Xavier players developed significantly from their first year in the NBA and on. No reason to believe the same can't happen for Jordan Crawford.

Crawford has played in one game in February and has only 16 games on the season. West played in 71, Posey in 81 and Hill played in 74 in their first years. According to you Grant was the only one that did anything in his first year in the league, but the games and minutes played of these others dwarfs Crawford by an order of magnitude. He simply doesn't play.


The sole determining factor that Snipe judges on the complex decision of Brown and Crawford leaving early is playing time their first and second years.

They both could have received more playing time in Germany. By Snipes logic, playing overseas would have made more sense than in the NBA.

I do think playing time is a huge factor in development in the NBA. I will stand by that.


Come on now- those guys played 4 years at Xavier- they were in a much better spot then both Crawford and Brown to succeed. HA- I wonder what Snipe would have said after those guys rookie years. Thanks for bringing the stats to the table.

Look at the stats. Craford has 16 games and 160 minutes played. Look at the 2,000 + minutes James Posey played in his rookie season. I knew James Posey would succeed because he played right off the bat.


They all developed very nicely under an NBA coach. When coming out of Xavier only 1 of them had a good rookie season. Thanks to KYXU for proving my point though: NBA coaches will develop you much more then Xavier coaches. I mean is this seriously an argument?

Yes, this seriously is an argument. Players develop in college. You may have heard something about that. That is why many of them go to college and not straight to the NBA. If you can play in the NBA I think it may be best to go there. If you can't I don't think it is always a great idea. Jordan Crawford in not playing. He is sitting the bench. He is riding the pine. Now some argue that not playing in the NBA is better than being an All American and the center of a game plan on a ranked team on National TV. I guess we will never know. But yes, this is seriously an argument and you are seriously an idiot for asking the question.

I could be wrong for sure, but let’s not act like it is a fait accompli that all NBA moves are the best thing ever.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yes, this seriously is an argument. Players develop in college. You may have heard something about that. That is why many of them go to college and not straight to the NBA. If you can play in the NBA I think it may be best to go there. If you can't I don't think it is always a great idea. Jordan Crawford in not playing. He is sitting the bench. He is riding the pine. Now some argue that not playing in the NBA is better than being an All American and the center of a game plan on a ranked team on National TV. I guess we will never know. But yes, this is seriously an argument and you are seriously an idiot for asking the question.


Yep, and 99% of college players would agree.

Nearly every college player that would know they would have a spot on an NBA team for a year (even on the bench) would make the jump.

[Snipe]

Yep, and 99% of college players would agree.

Nearly every college player that would know they would have a spot on an NBA team for a year (even on the bench) would make the jump.

Where do you get those statistics?

[Backyard Champ]

Yep, and 99% of college players would agree.

Nearly every college player that would know they would have a spot on an NBA team for a year (even on the bench) would make the jump.

Easy. I really think you can improve much more under NBA guidance than in college. Plus, all you have to focus on is basketball, no class/homework, just basketball. Playing with that better competition, even in practice, makes you better. You have coaches there telling you what you need to improve on, and will help you improve on that. It is still up to the player to get to the gym early, stay late and improve, but you have a better chance of doing that while in the NBA.

[kyxu]

Crawford has played in one game in February and has only 16 games on the season. West played in 71, Posey in 81 and Hill played in 74 in their first years. According to you Grant was the only one that did anything in his first year in the league, but the games and minutes played of these others dwarfs Crawford by an order of magnitude. He simply doesn't play.

So in 16 minutes of action, Crawford is about as productive as West and Hill in 71 and 81 games of action.

What made West and Hill such productive NBA players after their first year? Did they just forget during their rookie campaigns all that they learned and developed at Xavier, or did they use their work ethic and the resources afforded to those in the NBA to become solid players?

And still, what skills do you think Crawford lacks that are preventing him from playing more as a rookie?

[Kahns Krazy]

So in 16 minutes of action, Crawford is about as productive as West and Hill in 71 and 81 games of action. ?


Uhhhhhhh, what?

[kyxu]

Uhhhhhhh, what?

I'm talking about rookie campaigns. Crawford's stats fall in about the middle of the two in the first year.

[Kahns Krazy]

I'm talking about rookie campaigns. Crawford's stats fall in about the middle of the two in the first year.

Crawford is projecting to play 73 games this year, play over 1,000 minutes, get 340 rebounds, 40 assists, 30 steals, 29 blocks and over 330 points?

He's got his work cut out for him in the second half.

Or did you actually mean:


I'm talking about rookie campaigns. One of Crawford's arbitrarily selected average stats fall in about the middle of the two in the first year.

because that would be more accurate.

I think this whole argument is a bit silly, since it's an impossible to prove game. Cherry picking stats to support your side doesn't help though.

[kyxu]

because that would be more accurate.

I think this whole argument is a bit silly, since it's an impossible to prove game. Cherry picking stats to support your side doesn't help though.

Fair enough. I just find the argument that Crawford made a mistake heading early to the NBA because he's currently not playing much half-way though his rookie season to be a tad silly.

If I may, I think the fact that we're pointing to rookie stats is indicative of what a silly argument it is (in my favor, of course).

[Xavier]

Yes, this seriously is an argument. Players develop in college. You may have heard something about that. That is why many of them go to college and not straight to the NBA. If you can play in the NBA I think it may be best to go there. If you can't I don't think it is always a great idea. Jordan Crawford in not playing. He is sitting the bench. He is riding the pine. Now some argue that not playing in the NBA is better than being an All American and the center of a game plan on a ranked team on National TV. I guess we will never know. But yes, this is seriously an argument and you are seriously an idiot for asking the question.

I could be wrong for sure, but let’s not act like it is a fait accompli that all NBA moves are the best thing ever.

Thats correct- sitting on an NBA bench is better then being a 2nd or 3rd team All American in college. (which Crawford may have been- Brown would not have been in that discussion) Im not sure how people don't see that. I just have to assume those people don't follow the NBA at all.

[Kahns Krazy]

Thats correct- sitting on an NBA bench is better then being a 2nd or 3rd team All American in college. (which Crawford may have been- Brown would not have been in that discussion) Im not sure how people don't see that. I just have to assume those people don't follow the NBA at all.

If you're looking at a single year, I might agree with you.

If you're looking at a career, in general I do not. You only get so long to prove your value in the NBA. Look at Derrick Brown. Would he have been more developed after another year at X? Would he have been able to make a bigger impact, and have a longer career in the NBA after another season at X? I believe so.

Moreover, what is the risk/reward? If David West is the example of the damage staying in school too long causes, what's the downside? Career ending injuries at that age are relatively rare.

There are a lot more former players that regret coming out too soon than there are ones who regret staying an extra year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

There are a lot more former players that regret coming out too soon than there are ones who regret staying an extra year.

Of course there are because the ones who stay the extra year get drafted anyway around the same spot or if they dont get drafted the next year there isn't that sense of what if. I think if u leave after freshman year and don't get drafted that's where there would be the most regret. There aren't too many guys that leave a year early who get drafted in the second round or not at all that would have all of a sudden jumped to a first rd pick.

Fair or not seniors are looked upon unfavorably or with a stigma these days in the NBA draft. So much is based on potential in these drafts and guys who stayed 4 years in college, usually are what they are. They may be safer but NBA teams don't look on them as highly.

Jordan and Derrick both were also older age wise than their basketball eligibility suggested. They weren't basketball seniors but they were senior aged with perp school and red shirts under their belts. Both got guaranteed contracts in the NBA so I think both accomplished their initial goals. Now they are in the NBA and have other goals to accomplish but in my opinion those goals are best accomplished learning from and practicing with NBA players and coaches.

[GuyFawkes38]

We all love college basketball on this board. I'm guessing nearly all of us love it more than the NBA.

But that's not true for most young basketball players. They dream their whole lives of playing in the NBA. The idea that Jordan would risk a 1st round spot with potential injury and a probable lockout is absurd.

[DC Muskie]

I think when bringing up Derek Brown we need to remember two things:

1. He had a reputation of not always playing at a high gear at Xavier and only when pushed did he realize that he was in fact the best player on the court.

2. He played for a NBA coach who is notorious for not playing rookies. I don't think it's outside the realm of probability that Brown found out that not working hard prevented him even more on getting on the floor. Top it off by a new coach, and there you have it.

Personally I think Brown would have been better served coming back than Jordan. But that's just me.

[Snipe]

I understand that Jordan had a decision with pros and cons. What many of you don't seem to realize is the "cons" part of pros and cons. Leaving early has risks. One of those is riding the bench in the NBA when you could be a developing star in D-1 College and a national name.

David West didn't improve his stock, or so I am told. If David West left early who knows what would have happened. And if I then said to you "He could have been National Player of the Year" I would have been laughed off this board. Suddenly to one guy Derrick Brown never could have been a candidate for All American. I disagree. We will never know one way or the other.

I have seen guys make some serious progress in their final seasons, and West is one of them. Did that help him in the NBA? Would he have been better off riding the bench? I can't believe it hurt him being National Player of the Year. Had he left he also wouldn't have made the Xavier Hall of Fame or have been regarded as our best player ever. I think he expanded his range and his game facing the basket. He was really a great player that final year, that is why they gave him the award of National Player of the Year. Like I said, I can't see that hurting his development and I suspect it may have helped him. We don't know and will never know if it helped his draft.

Derrick Brown could have had an incredible senior season. WH said last year that we were one Derrick Brown away from the Final Four. I don't think that is far off since I believe it myself.

NBA stars play a hundred games a year. They don't go full force in practice. You don't get great in practice in the NBA. You get there by playing. That is my theory. You need to be able to play when you get to the league. Right now Jordan isn't playing. That makes me suspect his decision.

Pros and cons. Costs and benefits. Each side has some of them. We live in a world of tradeoffs. I hope Craw is working hard and motivated even though he isn't playing. If he was in college I bet he would be working his ass off and motivated as hell right now.

It is silly to try to evaluate his decision during his rookie season, but I didn't broach the topic. And to suggest that leaving early is always a good idea is just silly in my opinion. Tyrone Hill became a lottery pick in his senior year and played for over a decade. Brian Grant as well. Playing for us does have benefits. Not playing in most games in the league does have some drawbacks. I have confidence that Crawford would have been awesome for us this year. He made his decision and I wish him well. I just get bitter when I see him riding the pine. That may not be the best use of his time in my opinion.

We will never know what could have happened, so it is silly to argue about it.

[Snipe]

I think when bringing up Derek Brown we need to remember two things:

1. He had a reputation of not always playing at a high gear at Xavier and only when pushed did he realize that he was in fact the best player on the court.

2. He played for a NBA coach who is notorious for not playing rookies. I don't think it's outside the realm of probability that Brown found out that not working hard prevented him even more on getting on the floor. Top it off by a new coach, and there you have it.

Personally I think Brown would have been better served coming back than Jordan. But that's just me.

I would agree with that. I thought that Crawford was more "ready" for the leap that Brown was. He really could have expanded his game as a senior in my opinion and developed some well rounded senior skills in the Xavier tradition. I thought he could have been All American, but I have been told on this thread that he never had a chance. We could have made the Final Four with Brown, I do believe that.

[Xavier Nation]

http://plixi.com/p/78700833

CJ apparently is not too fond to respect Jim Day. This Pic says it all. Cmon Jordan u are better than that

[Xavier]

I would agree with that. I thought that Crawford was more "ready" for the leap that Brown was. He really could have expanded his game as a senior in my opinion and developed some well rounded senior skills in the Xavier tradition. I thought he could have been All American, but I have been told on this thread that he never had a chance. We could have made the Final Four with Brown, I do believe that.

I can agree to that. Would have been unreal with Brown on the team last year.

[AdamtheFlyer]

NBA stars play a hundred games a year. They don't go full force in practice. You don't get great in practice in the NBA. You get there by playing. That is my theory. You need to be able to play when you get to the league. Right now Jordan isn't playing. That makes me suspect his decision.

This couldn't be more wrong. NBA teams go as hard or harder in practice as college teams. They just don't practice as often, because at times they play 4 games in 5 days.

The flip side of that, is in the NBA a player can work as hard as he wants on his own. There's no 20 hour a week limit. In college sometimes all of the assistants are gone for a day or two if there's a gap between games, and the head coach may be out recruiting as well. On top of that you have classes and mandatory study time with the academic coordinator/tutors. In the NBA you have none of that, and there's always an assistant around to work with above and beyond practice. He can stay in the gym, weight room, or film room as long as he wants and be coached the entire time. It's up to him.

The simple truth is that no one knows how hard Crawford is working, or how much he is improving. He got drafted to a pretty good team, with a rotation of veterans. Minutes are tough to come by. But the Hawks took on his guaranteed contract for a reason. They like him. If he is putting in the work necessary, he will get rewarded in time. Maybe not this year, but rookie deals are multi-year and heavily favor the team in the sense that the Hawks really control Crawford for up to 6 years. Not many guys voluntarily walk away from their drafted team after the rookie deal is up. It's after the second deal when things begin to favor the player, and he has real options.

I thought Jim Day's question about regrets was absolutely insane. The guy is trying to hang out with friends and agreed to a fluff piece interview. You can't drop that question. It's "gotcha" hack journalism at its worst. Backed him in a corner and forced him into a no win answer.

[X Factor]

^^^ I couldn't agree more with ATF. Good post.

[SixFig]

AdamtheFlyer is going to make a strong push for the XH Tournament next year.

[CinciX12]

This couldn't be more wrong. NBA teams go as hard or harder in practice as college teams. They just don't practice as often, because at times they play 4 games in 5 days.

The flip side of that, is in the NBA a player can work as hard as he wants on his own. There's no 20 hour a week limit. In college sometimes all of the assistants are gone for a day or two if there's a gap between games, and the head coach may be out recruiting as well. On top of that you have classes and mandatory study time with the academic coordinator/tutors. In the NBA you have none of that, and there's always an assistant around to work with above and beyond practice. He can stay in the gym, weight room, or film room as long as he wants and be coached the entire time. It's up to him.

The simple truth is that no one knows how hard Crawford is working, or how much he is improving. He got drafted to a pretty good team, with a rotation of veterans. Minutes are tough to come by. But the Hawks took on his guaranteed contract for a reason. They like him. If he is putting in the work necessary, he will get rewarded in time. Maybe not this year, but rookie deals are multi-year and heavily favor the team in the sense that the Hawks really control Crawford for up to 6 years. Not many guys voluntarily walk away from their drafted team after the rookie deal is up. It's after the second deal when things begin to favor the player, and he has real options.

I thought Jim Day's question about regrets was absolutely insane. The guy is trying to hang out with friends and agreed to a fluff piece interview. You can't drop that question. It's "gotcha" hack journalism at its worst. Backed him in a corner and forced him into a no win answer.

Definitely agree. But that answer wasn't even my problem with the whole interview. The whole thing was a joke. Either Jordan was high or he was acting like a prick on purpose. If you don't want to give the interview, say you don't want to do the interview. Be a big boy and at least fake interest. That was some people's first glimpse of him since his time in a X uniform.

[Kahns Krazy]

http://plixi.com/p/78700833

CJ apparently is not too fond to respect Jim Day. This Pic says it all. Cmon Jordan u are better than that

Did you actually manage to misspell a guy's initials? I think that is some sort of record.



And not in a good way.

[CinciX12]

http://plixi.com/p/78700833

CJ apparently is not too fond to respect Jim Day. This Pic says it all. Cmon Jordan u are better than that

Good job on posting something I already did.

[Xavier Nation]

Did you actually manage to misspell a guy's initials? I think that is some sort of record.



And not in a good way.

No it is from cj anderson's twitter account sorry cincy x i did not feel like reading every post and skipped a couple pages

[Kahns Krazy]

Oh. The link just shows the picture. Sort of hard to figure out what you were referring to.

[Xavier Nation]

i figured they had the caption of the tweet under the pic anyway it said something totally dissing Jim Day

[boozehound]

AdamtheFlyer is going to make a strong push for the XH Tournament next year.

At least until conference play starts...

[drudy23]

16 games says that debate isn't over. He played in all 16 of them. Woo Hoo.

Derrick Brown isn't doing that much for the cause either with his 3.8 ppg. Both could have been All Americans. They were not when they left. They certainly had higher to climb had they stayed, and Brown especially could have more in his game to develop.

Poor All American or rich bench warmer?

[Masterofreality]

I finally had a chance to see the "interview" on the DVR.

My take is that Jim Day asked fair questions and was respectful. He didn't ambush Craw and he gave him leeway to answer.

I agree with those that say that Craw came across like a prick. Even before the last question Craw wasn't giving Day anything to work with or to follow up on.

Too bad for him.

[SixFig]

Poor All American or rich bench warmer?

This question in Dayton is purely hypothetical, unless you count Kurt Huelsman ballin in the Danish league a "rich" bench warmer