The Big O Sues the NCAA

[Muskie]

WLWT (http://www.wlwt.com/news/26638192/detail.html?taf=cin)

Attorney Stan Chesley said that Robertson found out about the cards when fans started sending them to him to be signed.
The lawsuit alleges that the NCAA and others have illegally licensed, and received compensation for, the images and likenesses of former college athletes like Robertson.

[coasterville95]

I heard this on the news last night.

Q: Does the 4-5+ years free schooling (wheter or not the student-athlete takes full advantage of the academics) compensate full compensation?

I think the arugument is going to go something like - when you signed on to play for us, we gave you 4-5 years free tuition with all the extras, gave you coaches that developed you as a player, gave you a stage to exhibit your talent - in exchange - you gave us the rights to your name, number and likeness - forever.

Am i off base here?

Sounds to me like The Big O and about 25 others (amongst the how many hundreds of college turned pro athletes, and even greater pool of student athletes) have realized there is still money to be made off their college careers and are making a money grab.

[LadyMuskie]

I admit that I do not follow the NBA much, or ancient college basketball, so I am ignorant when it comes to Oscar Robertson outside of what I've read in the Enquirer.

The article on WCPO's website ends with "Some say Robertson is the greatest basketball player of all time." Does anyone say this outside of UC fans? I'm being serious. I don't know. I know he was a great player, but the greatest of all time? I guess because I grew up watching Michael Jordan I'm prone to lead towards him or Larry Bird or Magic. Even Chamberlin. But, I was just curious if this was a notion shared throughout the country or just here in our little burg because he went to UC and then played for the Royals.

[Muskie]

I admit that I do not follow the NBA much, or ancient college basketball, so I am ignorant when it comes to Oscar Robertson outside of what I've read in the Enquirer.

The article on WCPO's website ends with "Some say Robertson is the greatest basketball player of all time." Does anyone say this outside of UC fans? I'm being serious. I don't know. I know he was a great player, but the greatest of all time? I guess because I grew up watching Michael Jordan I'm prone to lead towards him or Larry Bird or Magic. Even Chamberlin. But, I was just curious if this was a notion shared throughout the country or just here in our little burg because he went to UC and then played for the Royals.

Robertson is a High School Basketball Folk Hero here in Indiana. I have no idea if he has that kind of acclaim outside of Indiana and Ohio (for college).

[MADXSTER]

Off topic or maybe not....

All I know is that I've attended two sports stags where Oscar was the guest speaker. He is unfortunately a bitter bitter man. I felt bad that someone/anyone would have to go through life being so bitter. :(

[MADXSTER]

The article on WCPO's website ends with "Some say Robertson is the greatest basketball player of all time." Does anyone say this outside of UC fans? I'm being serious. I don't know.

He averaged a triple double. He's arguably top five.

[LadyMuskie]

Robertson is a High School Basketball Folk Hero here in Indiana. I have no idea if he has that kind of acclaim outside of Indiana and Ohio (for college).

Ok. So maybe the greatest of all time because he had such outstanding careers at all levels - high school, college and NBA? Jordan didn't finish college, so I guess you could argue that Robertson's was better. I really don't know about anyone else (like Bird or Johnson) and whether or not their high school careers were as great as their college and NBA careers. It just seemed like an odd statement to me, and I thought WCPO was pandering to the UC base. Maybe not.

And MadX, I've heard the same thing about Robertson being bitter and angry. It is a shame to live life like that.

[coasterville95]

I too have heard Big O described as being a bitter, angy, grumpy old man. In fact, I think I might have even heard it on one of the sports radio shows the last time he was outspoken against something UC did. (Or Cronin did, one of the two)

The one news piece makes a big deal that UC was contacted for permission to use him in the trading card set. Big O response: It's not the UC logo that's selling that card, its my name and face. I think that strengthens my belief that when you signed up for the free ride in exchange for playing basketball, part of it is you sign over the rights to your name and face to the school. Hopefully that is actually in the verbiage and not just implied. That would be why the NCAA went to UC, UC, at least in my theory, has the rights to The Big O's name and image , as a college player, and its a trading card of him in his college days.

UC probably said YES in a heartbeat becuase, let's face it, they need all the positve publicity the basketball program can get.

[blobfan]

I heard this on the news last night.

Q: Does the 4-5+ years free schooling (wheter or not the student-athlete takes full advantage of the academics) compensate full compensation?

I think the arugument is going to go something like - when you signed on to play for us, we gave you 4-5 years free tuition with all the extras, gave you coaches that developed you as a player, gave you a stage to exhibit your talent - in exchange - you gave us the rights to your name, number and likeness - forever.

Am i off base here?

Sounds to me like The Big O and about 25 others (amongst the how many hundreds of college turned pro athletes, and even greater pool of student athletes) have realized there is still money to be made off their college careers and are making a money grab.

In my opinion, the school provided him the education, not the NCAA. While it may be ok for the school to use his image for marketing purposes, it's another thing entirely to make money off the image of a former student. The student makes an arrangement with the school, yes, so there may be some gray area there but I don't think the school should be able to transfer it's rights to the NCAA.

How would you feel if X were selling the Crawford mini-bobblehead rather than giving it away? Should they be able to do that without compensating him? Should the NCAA?

Bitter man or not, I hope he wins this case. It looks like shady dealings at first glance.

[coasterville95]

Selling it, would that mean they would have more than 3,000? Where can I place my order. I get an extra bobbler, and the school gets some money. Sounds like a win/win.

(You did ask how I felt, didn't you?)

Anyway, one could make a case that Xavier sold extra tickets to that game (it wasn't a sell out) for people who came SOLELY for the bobblehead. That's akin to selling them,r right? Should Crawford get a cut off the ticket sales since the chance to get a Jordan Crawford bobblehead was used to advertise what was supposed to be a sleepy weeknight -14.5 blowout game.

[blobfan]

Selling it, would that mean they would have more than 3,000? Where can I place my order. I get an extra bobbler, and the school gets some money. Sounds like a win/win.

(You did ask how I felt, didn't you?)

Anyway, one could make a case that Xavier sold extra tickets to that game (it wasn't a sell out) for people who came SOLELY for the bobblehead. That's akin to selling them,r right? Should Crawford get a cut off the ticket sales since the chance to get a Jordan Crawford bobblehead was used to advertise what was supposed to be a sleepy weeknight -14.5 blowout game.

No, I don't think it is akin to selling them. And selling them outright would not be a win/win. It'd be a win/win/lose: you win/X wins/Crawford loses.

[coasterville95]

How do pro teams work - if I buy an OchoCinco jersey, does Chad get a cut of that? How about a Ken Griffey Jr. 500 home run t-shirt.

Does that money all go to the Reds or Bengals, or do they account for how many of each players shirts they sold, and cut each player a check?

You might say they get compensated by being a member of the team, and quite handsomely at that, so all the money should go to the Reds/Bengals.

But, to make it similar - a year or so ago, I bought the Pete Rose sliding into base bobblehead from a gift shop at Great American Ball Park. Clearly it was the Red's selling it, and making money of a former player. Did Pete get a check from that? (I even want to say that was once a Stadium give away item, right, so that would be like Xavier turning around and putting the excess Crawford bobbles in the X Store at Cintas.)

[smileyy]

He averaged a triple double. He's arguably top five.

Bill Simmons (not that he's the end-all and be-all of basketball knowledge, but also as good a ranking of players as you'll find), has him in his top 10, at #9.

The triple-double was averaged at a time of ridiculous pace in the NBA. In 1966 teams averaged 100 FGA per game. That number in modern times is closer to 80.

There's a handful of players who average a triple double when you increase all of their counting stats by 25%.

[paulxu]

No, I don't think it is akin to selling them. And selling them outright would not be a win/win. It'd be a win/win/lose: you win/X wins/Crawford loses.

Crawford was following his bobblehead deal. From his tweet to team guys:

@ESPNTU @Melx22 @mantayjackson @Mooga_Mark @Big_Rob21 @jmart202 @xu_la2 bobble heads goin fast make sure yall there early!! Hahahahahahahaha
11:35 PM Jan 25th via Echofon

[SixFig]

Crawford was following his bobblehead deal. From his tweet to team guys:

@ESPNTU @Melx22 @mantayjackson @Mooga_Mark @Big_Rob21 @jmart202 @xu_la2 bobble heads goin fast make sure yall there early!! Hahahahahahahaha
11:35 PM Jan 25th via Echofon

mantayjackson Dante Jackson
@jcraw55 no one wants them things.. To be honest it don't even look like you..your hair isn't nappy enough you Nigerian.. Lol

[chico]

Bill Simmons (not that he's the end-all and be-all of basketball knowledge, but also as good a ranking of players as you'll find), has him in his top 10, at #9.

The triple-double was averaged at a time of ridiculous pace in the NBA. In 1966 teams averaged 100 FGA per game. That number in modern times is closer to 80.

There's a handful of players who average a triple double when you increase all of their counting stats by 25%.

It was harder to get an assist back then, though. The rules were relaxed at some point if I'm not mistaken.

I'd put him in the top 10 all time. He certainly is in the discussion.

[bobbiemcgee]

no 3 pointers until 79-80. I'm from Indy therefore love the Big O.