UC/Miami TV?

[pimpinthebox]

Anyone know what channel the game is on? I'm a Time Warner Cable customer.

[xeus]

Is this post a joke?

[pimpinthebox]

Humor me. I'm at a bar and want to watch the game when I get home.

[X-band '01]

ESPN3 has the game.

[xuwin]

Humor me. I'm at a bar and want to watch the game when I get home.

Isn't it usually the other way around?:)

[StanleyOwnsYou]

I've been hearing it has been picked up by TWC on channel 99 for digital customers (originally only on STO)

[X-band '01]

If people are walking up to buy a ticket tonight, they're in for a rude awakening when Miami tells them they have to buy a ticket for tonight's game PLUS another Miami home game.

And they wonder why they draw flies up at Millett....

[pimpinthebox]

Isn't it usually the other way around?:)

Not these days, brother.

Thanks for the info, fellas.

[CinciX12]

ESPN3/STO for those in the Columbus area. I want to watch but when I see the dimly lit hell hole I might get mad enough to break something.

[BlueX]

STO can broadcast this game between two worthless teams in HD. Time to step up your game FSN.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Channel 99 on TWC. UC getting Winbush'd. 3/4 from 3.

Miami up 2 now

[sirthought]

UC took care of business to close out the half. They work well when they go inside.

[xavierj]

Miami just sucks. Xavier losing to them will end up being a bad, bad loss. But hey it came in November so maybe no one will remember come March.

[kyxu]

Miami just sucks. Xavier losing to them will end up being a bad, bad loss. But hey it came in November so maybe no one will remember come March.

Thinking the same thing. I hope the Miami loss serves as an eternal reminder to this team.

That Miami team that rolled Xavier was bad bad bad. Still REALLY steamed about that loss :mad:

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

Yancy and Thomas had their way inside. Offensive rebound after offensive rebound.

[StanleyOwnsYou]

Still not impressed with UC to be honest. If X can limit UC to one shot offensively and rebound the basketball I think we can be optimistic. That and the fact Miami turned the ball over every other possesion made this one an easy one.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I saw someone else put it perfectly...I've seen Cincy several times and can't figure out if they're good or not. They've only really played 3 games that even register a look, Dayton, Oklahoma and at Miami. None are wins to write home about for a BCS program, though. They beat Dayton, but the margin was more about UD on that night than it was UC. Oklahoma is bad, but it's a (virtual) road game at a BCS school not named DePaul, Iowa or Oregon State. And we know Miami at Millett is a house of horrors.

They passed all three quizzes, but I don't think it says anything about what they'll be as the year goes on. I want to see them with some adversity. A big part of me suspects that's when the real Cronin, Dixon and Gates will show up.

[DWXU23]

I saw someone else put it perfectly...I've seen Cincy several times and can't figure out if they're good or not. They've only really played 3 games that even register a look, Dayton, Oklahoma and at Miami. None are wins to write home about for a BCS program, though. They beat Dayton, but the margin was more about UD on that night than it was UC. Oklahoma is bad, but it's a (virtual) road game at a BCS school not named DePaul, Iowa or Oregon State. And we know Miami at Millett is a house of horrors.

They passed all three quizzes, but I don't think it says anything about what they'll be as the year goes on. I want to see them with some adversity. A big part of me suspects that's when the real Cronin, Dixon and Gates will show up.
Dion Dixon being their leading scorer makes me very unsure on how good they actually are. If they are an NCAA tourney caliber team with him as their leading scorer, I will be very surprised. My only memory of him is missing wide open threes against X and dribbling off his leg against WVU in the BE tourney.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

I saw someone else put it perfectly...I've seen Cincy several times and can't figure out if they're good or not. They've only really played 3 games that even register a look, Dayton, Oklahoma and at Miami. None are wins to write home about for a BCS program, though. They beat Dayton, but the margin was more about UD on that night than it was UC. Oklahoma is bad, but it's a (virtual) road game at a BCS school not named DePaul, Iowa or Oregon State. And we know Miami at Millett is a house of horrors.

They passed all three quizzes, but I don't think it says anything about what they'll be as the year goes on. I want to see them with some adversity. A big part of me suspects that's when the real Cronin, Dixon and Gates will show up.

Heres my opinion on them...

UC is a very very athletic and long team that can cause some serious mismatch problems. They thrive on the proverbial "Punch you in the mouth" philosophy. I have yet to see a team match their physicality this year(granted, they haven't really played anyone aside from UD. I missed the UD game but judging from the score it was just one of those days for UD. UD is not 34 points worse than UC)

What they do well:
-Pressure defense. Full court, half court. They use that athleticism and length to their advantage to frustrate ball handlers.
-Rebound. Their bigs are very physical when they want to be(Yancy and Ibrahima). Factor in Wilks and some of the guards size which helps them rebound well as well
-Balanced scoring. This year they seem to be getting contributions from everyone. One game Dixon will score a ton, the next game its Bishop, the next game Yancy. They aren't dependent on Vaughn and Stephenson to get the job done.

What I think is the blueprint to beating UC:
-Having guards who can handle their pressure. I've yet to see them go against experienced guards who can exploit their over-aggressiveness. Having experienced guards who can penetrate and score/dish/draw the foul can really hurt UC and get their bigs in foul trouble. It's also very important for the guards to take care of the ball. Kind of leads to my next point
-Get back in transition. They get a lot of freebee points simply from out hustling the teams they are playing
-Out physical them. Push Yancy out to 15 feet. Let him and Thomas take jumpshots all day rather than getting position inside.
-Match their swagger. Get them out of their game. They have yet to be challenged this year. They have yet to be "hit back". How will they respond?
-Rebound. Obviously

[Power]

Dixon has looked good this entire year. He is an upper classman now and it is really showing. Yancy is a beast and if you disagree than you are just blinded by the rivalry.

I do not know how good UC is yet but they are obviously much improved from last year. Every team UC plays turns the ball over. That is now really on Miami. UC presses the whole game and has a ton of depth.

Also, UC is not just squeaking by these teams, they are destroying them.

[Power]

Heres my opinion on them...

UC is a very very athletic and long team that can cause some serious mismatch problems. They thrive on the proverbial "Punch you in the mouth" philosophy. I have yet to see a team match their physicality this year(granted, they haven't really played anyone aside from UD. I missed the UD game but judging from the score it was just one of those days for UD. UD is not 34 points worse than UC)

What they do well:
-Pressure defense. Full court, half court. They use that athleticism and length to their advantage to frustrate ball handlers.
-Rebound. Their bigs are very physical when they want to be(Yancy and Ibrahima). Factor in Wilks and some of the guards size which helps them rebound well as well
-Balanced scoring. This year they seem to be getting contributions from everyone. One game Dixon will score a ton, the next game its Bishop, the next game Yancy. They aren't dependent on Vaughn and Stephenson to get the job done.

What I think is the blueprint to beating UC:
-Having guards who can handle their pressure. I've yet to see them go against experienced guards who can exploit their over-aggressiveness. Having experienced guards who can penetrate and score/dish/draw the foul can really hurt UC and get their bigs in foul trouble. It's also very important for the guards to take care of the ball. Kind of leads to my next point
-Get back in transition. They get a lot of freebee points simply from out hustling the teams they are playing
-Out physical them. Push Yancy out to 15 feet. Let him and Thomas take jumpshots all day rather than getting position inside.
-Match their swagger. Get them out of their game. They have yet to be challenged this year. They have yet to be "hit back". How will they respond?
-Rebound. Obviously

Accurate Post.

[CinciX12]

Dixon has looked good this entire year. He is an upper classman now and it is really showing. Yancy is a beast and if you disagree than you are just blinded by the rivalry.

I do not know how good UC is yet but they are obviously much improved from last year. Every team UC plays turns the ball over. That is now really on Miami. UC presses the whole game and has a ton of depth.

Also, UC is not just squeaking by these teams, they are destroying them.

Give him a good coach and the guy would be insane.

[Kahns Krazy]

If people are walking up to buy a ticket tonight, they're in for a rude awakening when Miami tells them they have to buy a ticket for tonight's game PLUS another Miami home game.

And they wonder why they draw flies up at Millett....

You nailed that one Band Man. The girl and I went up early, had some grub at Mac & Joes and a couple beers. (Dogfish 60 minute on tap - damn things have changed since I was in college). Got to Millett later than I wanted - about 10 minutes into the first half. Saw the signs over the ticket window that said "All tickets $39.95". I spent a couple minutes looking for the other ticket windows that had the regular tickets before I went up and asked. They explained the "two" ticket thing. I felt like going apeshit, but it was pretty clear that I wasn't the only one that had complained to the guy already, so I just told him if he was collecting feedback, we were walking away and heading back to the bar.

We went back to the bar and watched the game on TV.

Stupid, stupid move for Miami.

[X-band '01]

My apologies go out for posting that about an hour before tip - I didn't even notice it until I saw the Enquirer article about the UC-Miami game later on in the evening.

I'd rep you but ObamaHood wants me to spread it around first.

[stophorseabuse]

I think UC is about like last year. Does anybody remember UC was actually in the top 25 last year in the non-conference?

I still remember plenty of fodder from UC fans that is funny now. I remember UC fans blasting X's non con schedule years ago, which was never as pitiful as UC's this year.

3 years ago Tu Holloway was mocked and wasn't good enough to play with UC (even though they say that's where he really wanted to go but was told no). Cash Wright was labeled a basketball God. 3 years later Tu is the best PG this city has seen in at least 20 years.

Kenny Frease got the same treatment in comparison to Gates. Kenny is better than Gates all the way across the board this year, and against better competition.

UC fans have always written checks they couldn't cash. Much like none of them remembered their early 'success' last year, November and December will be forgotten by March again this year.

[Power]

I think UC is about like last year. Does anybody remember UC was actually in the top 25 last year in the non-conference?

I still remember plenty of fodder from UC fans that is funny now. I remember UC fans blasting X's non con schedule years ago, which was never as pitiful as UC's this year.

3 years ago Tu Holloway was mocked and wasn't good enough to play with UC (even though they say that's where he really wanted to go but was told no). Cash Wright was labeled a basketball God. 3 years later Tu is the best PG this city has seen in at least 20 years.

Kenny Frease got the same treatment in comparison to Gates. Kenny is better than Gates all the way across the board this year, and against better competition.

UC fans have always written checks they couldn't cash. Much like none of them remembered their early 'success' last year, November and December will be forgotten by March again this year.

UC did have a 1st team AA and POY candidate in Steve Logan. They had a NBA player in Kenny Satterfield. Nick Van Exel was within your 20 year period. Don't just say things to make a point because he is not close to the best the city has seen in 20 years. Although he is very good and to this point better than Cashmere.

We will see what happens when Yancy and Kenny meet up. I can not imagine him gaurding Yancy 1 on 1. No one has played him man on man yet. I think other teams are still daring Kenny to beat them.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

We will see what happens when Yancy and Kenny meet up. I can not imagine him gaurding Yancy 1 on 1. No one has played him man on man yet. I think other teams are still daring Kenny to beat them.

This years shootout will have some very interesting matchups.

Gates Frease
Thomas McClean
Bishop Jackson
Dixon Lyons
Wright Holloway

This should be another closely contested game. UC will probably be undefeated and top 20 at that point so this is another solid OOC game for X.

Xavier has Gonzaga, Florida, UC, and Georgia left for OOC resume building wins. I think the Butler win was big for X and they will win the Horizon and go to the NCAA's when its all said and done

[gladdenguy]

With those matchups you would think
Frease would cancel Nancy
holloway MUCH better than Wright
Dixon probably slightly better than Lyons
Mclean should destroy Ibrahima
and Jackson and Bishop are a wash.
UC's bench better.
All about how the Muskies shoot that night.

[stophorseabuse]

If you consider Logan a PG that would change the discussion. He was a legit 1st team AA. Van Exel is the player I was going back to. I would take Tu over Satterfield as that is why I said 20 years (approximate of course). There has also been Chalmers and Lavender in that time frame, who were fantastic point guards. I take Tu over them also though.

You get ZERO argument from me that Yancey is more talented than Frease. He is a man child. That is my problem though. There is zero excuse for him to average such pedestrian numbers and shoot such low percentages. He is undisciplined, lazy, and selfish. There is no reason for such a talent to average barely a point a shot attempt. Meanwhile, Kenny Frease is using his limited talent to become a dominant Center. He has a good attitude and is a great teammate. He never takes an ill advised shot that hurts his team. His stock is about to go through the freaking roof.

Both of these guys will end up being bigger winners than any UC player in 15 years.

I guess I should also add that to a UC Fan there was NEVER a Xavier player on par with what UC had.

West was no Fortson/Hicks/Martin/Maxiell
Sato/Crawford was no Burton/Durden/Johnson
Lavender/Holloway/Chalmers was no Satterfield
For all those stars UC has had, which are all better than anybody X could have, since UC's final 4 Xavier has been entirely more successful.

[xavierj]

When are people going to realize this is Mick Cronin we are talking about. The guy is like John Wooden prior to getting into January. His teams get worse as the year goes on. As a fan you should never want a team to look like gang busters prior to February. As a Xavier fan I know all about being awesome early in the season from the Skip days, God rest his soul.

UC has beat everyone they should have beat this year. And they have not blown everyone out either. They had a 7 point lead on Wright St. with 6 minutes left, 5 point lead on IPFW with 5 minutes left, 3 point lead on Oklahoma with 5 minutes left and went 9 minutes against Savannah St. without a FG. They have yet to play a team that will even make the CBI tournament so if I were a UC fan I would be very cautious. It's gonna be a different story when they play actual legit DI teams.

My guess is that you look at it like a horse racing form. If the horse beats nothing but easy claimers and he has always got mud kicked in his face against the class horses than chances are that will be the same outcome every time. Mick Cronin has a history of destroying bad teams, he is undefeated against Miami, he wins 85% of his games in November and 70% in December, it's just a different story come January, February and March. My brain tells me that expect UC to win about 7 games in the Big East and you will see Mick's true colors come out by bashing the A-10 by February.

I think this is about the 3rd most talented UC team since Mick arrived, and that is not a good thing.

[Power]

With those matchups you would think
Frease would cancel Nancy
holloway MUCH better than Wright
Dixon probably slightly better than Lyons
Mclean should destroy Ibrahima
and Jackson and Bishop are a wash.
UC's bench better.
All about how the Muskies shoot that night.

We will have to wait and see. In my honest opinion:

Yancy will beat up on Frease. He is more talented in all areas. His number are pedestrian because no one ever gaurds him man on man.

Holloway is playing like a top 5 pg. I will see Cash is playing very good ball this year and has ran the offense. He looks to pass before scoring but I will definitely give Holloway the advantage.

I like Mclean. No way he destroys Thomas. Again, if you counting on that you will be disappointed. At best a push.

Dixon is better than Lyons right now.

Rashad is playing good ball. 20 for 20 from the stripe and shooting around 50 percent. Bigger and stronger than Dante which will help our rebounding.

Where UC has a tremendous advantage is in their depth. UC will play 9 people and press their entire game. Holloway and Lyons better be ready for the constant pressure.

[drudy23]

The keys to our game this year vs UC is Lyons and Frease.

Lyons can't play his "highlight game" and try to out-do everyone, especially on the Crosstown Shootout stage...which will provide the "temptation" for him to try it...guys that lose focus in the Shootout are likely the ones to cost you the game.

Same is true for Kenny...we all know the history with Gates...can't let that get to him in an "immature" way come game time. Has to be aggressive...but don't be stupid.

[coasterville95]

Looks like Mick Cronin is using the package deal ticket policy as ammunition to never have to travel to the Millett Hall of Horrors ever again. Sounds like a real consumer advocate talking about how unfair and unjust it was to the fans.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

The keys to our game this year vs UC is Lyons and Frease.

Lyons can't play his "highlight game" and try to out-do everyone, especially on the Crosstown Shootout stage...which will provide the "temptation" for him to try it...guys that lose focus in the Shootout are likely the ones to cost you the game.

Same is true for Kenny...we all know the history with Gates...can't let that get to him in an "immature" way come game time. Has to be aggressive...but don't be stupid.

Lyons vs Dixon is definitely a key matchup. Dixon last night looked very very good against Miami. He was hitting 3's, driving to the basket, drawing fouls, and generally very aggressive. With Lyons being our best on the ball defender, I would expect him to make Dixon work for every point

You are completely correct about the Frease Gates matchup Drudy. No love lost there for the two. They both need to harness their emotions to some degree.

Tu vs Wright. I think Tu has a clear advantage here. Wright isn't bad by any means, but he Tu is definitely the more talented player at this moment

McLean will have a tough matchup vs Thomas. Thomas has shown he can hit the occasional 3 and will be looking to use his length to crash the offensive boards. McLean is the more physical and athletic player of the two though.

Bishop vs Jackson is really interesting. The matchup could go either way. Both seem to be streaky and inconsistent(Bishop has been the more consistent player offensively - granted against weaker competition). Both play solid D. Bishop is the more physical and bigger player.

Bench play seems to be a big advantage for the Bearcats. But X is playing a lot better as of late. The team I saw play Western Michigan and the team I saw play Butler seem like two completely different teams. I think the Miami game was where it all started to click (just a little to late to save that game) and it took them a ridiculous near halfcourt shot at the end of the shot clock to ice the game.

UC is tough to figure out due to the level of competition but I do think they are legitimately top 40 good. Shoudl be a great game and from what I hear, a ton of Xavier fans will be there

[stophorseabuse]

The keys to our game this year vs UC is Lyons and Frease.

Lyons can't play his "highlight game" and try to out-do everyone, especially on the Crosstown Shootout stage...which will provide the "temptation" for him to try it...guys that lose focus in the Shootout are likely the ones to cost you the game.

Same is true for Kenny...we all know the history with Gates...can't let that get to him in an "immature" way come game time. Has to be aggressive...but don't be stupid.

Xavier has done a very good job in recent years intimidating UC and taking them out of their game. Xavier is VERY good at the head games, and just has so much 'swagger'. Other fans identify this as being dirty (as I would too). God knows though, it is something I am glad X has developed.

Frankly, the shootout is often about a player going off. Usually it is a star taking over (West, Chalmers, Holloway), but we have also seen Alvin Brown and Dante Jackson go nuts against UC.

Lyons trying to play that role would be a big mistake. Cheeks has some maturing to do before he takes over in isolation.

Why Gates would beat up on Frease when he hasn't been able to beat up on any of the stiffs he has played in 3 years confuses me.

In the end I think this game is always about toughness. The home court always helps X, but UC gets little out of theirs. Those type of fans don't do much for a mediocre basketball program. The most seasoned, and by far toughest guy on the court will be wearing number 52 in blue. The teams will each shoot about 30% from the field, and finishing at the goal and ft line in the last 5 minutes will fuel a victory for some team. I expect that to be X, again.

[Power]

Looks like Mick Cronin is using the package deal ticket policy as ammunition to never have to travel to the Millett Hall of Horrors ever again. Sounds like a real consumer advocate talking about how unfair and unjust it was to the fans.

It really is a bad game. We aren't trying to avoid them, we did just beat them by 16 there.

[xavierj]

Looks like Mick Cronin is using the package deal ticket policy as ammunition to never have to travel to the Millett Hall of Horrors ever again. Sounds like a real consumer advocate talking about how unfair and unjust it was to the fans.

If I were a coach I wouldn't want to play there either. Place is a dump, Miami is not very good anymore and no one shows up. I can't stand Xavier going there. I would rather look for a 1 game road trip with no return against a North Carolina or Duke than go to Miami. If Miami wants to play then play it at US Bank Arena or better yet the Gardens.

[xavierj]

UC did have a 1st team AA and POY candidate in Steve Logan. They had a NBA player in Kenny Satterfield. Nick Van Exel was within your 20 year period. Don't just say things to make a point because he is not close to the best the city has seen in 20 years. Although he is very good and to this point better than Cashmere.

We will see what happens when Yancy and Kenny meet up. I can not imagine him gaurding Yancy 1 on 1. No one has played him man on man yet. I think other teams are still daring Kenny to beat them.

Maybe they should be daring Yancy to beat them. That guy is shooting 44% on the year from 2 pt range and 51% from the line. That is horrible for a guy his size, especially against the high school teams he has played so far. My guess is the reason he will be a 4 year college player is because he is a stiff and just way overrated. In my opinion Kenny has improved since he stepped on campus in every facet of the game, Yancy to this point, not so much. And your excuse will be because no one guards him 1 on 1. Huh? I would just hack him everytime or just let him shoot, it's like a TO. But that game is a ways off, Xavier has bigger fish to fry.

[Power]

Maybe they should be daring Yancy to beat them. That guy is shooting 44% on the year from 2 pt range and 51% from the line. That is horrible for a guy his size, especially against the high school teams he has played so far. My guess is the reason he will be a 4 year college player is because he is a stiff and just way overrated. In my opinion Kenny has improved since he stepped on campus in every facet of the game, Yancy to this point, not so much. And your excuse will be because no one guards him 1 on 1. Huh? I would just hack him everytime or just let him shoot, it's like a TO. But that game is a ways off, Xavier has bigger fish to fry.

If you watch him at all this year he has looked real good. I can say without any doubt that 100 percent of UC fans would take Yancy Gates over K Frease. If your happy with Kenny then that is fine.

[XULucho27]

If you watch him at all this year he has looked real good. I can say without any doubt that 100 percent of UC fans would take Yancy Gates over K Frease. If your happy with Kenny then that is fine.

I think this is a matter of fan base perception as well. As U.C. fans, you've seen Yancy all year and can better assess the positive aspects of his game thus favoring him. Same for us and Frease. We're seeing Frease more often than Yancy and have marveled at the monster numbers he's been putting up. I'd take Frease over Yancy, obviously. Overall though, I think this will be the best matchup of the night, from a talent perspective and because they plain don't like each other. I hope Frease owns him! :logo:

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=Power;231404]If you watch him at all this year he has looked real good. I can say without any doubt that 100 percent of UC fans would take Yancy Gates over K Frease. If your happy with Kenny then that is fine.[/QUOTE

Anyway you slice it Kenny is having a better season than Yancy and it is coming against better competition. My guess is that if Yancy could switch Kenny places he would in a heart beat. We at Xavier win in March, you guys at UC seem to win in November and December, but to each his own.

Against NCAA tournament teams from a year ago Kenny is averaging 16 pts and 15 rebounds (3 teams). Yes we at Xavier are very happy with that production. Yancy has yet to play a team that made the tourney last year and he still is yet to come close to that production even though he is playing Thomas More type competition.

[stophorseabuse]

If Yancey Gates had come to Xavier he wouldn't be here anymore. He would have, a.) committed to the Xavier way and be in the NBA, or b.) did what he does and be waiting for a second chance after being run off.

[Power]

I am just being honest here. I have no idea why any of you would take ANY Xavier big men over UC's. I watch X play last night and could not have been less impressed with there bigs. Frease looks incredibly slow and soft. You can't be serious about Kenny being better than Yancy. That is hilarious. Just watch him! Gonzaga attacked him all night.

I am being honest here. How in the world are you going to rebound with the Cats?

[bearcat65]

[QUOTE=Power;231404]If you watch him at all this year he has looked real good. I can say without any doubt that 100 percent of UC fans would take Yancy Gates over K Frease. If your happy with Kenny then that is fine.[/QUOTE

Anyway you slice it Kenny is having a better season than Yancy and it is coming against better competition. My guess is that if Yancy could switch Kenny places he would in a heart beat. We at Xavier win in March, you guys at UC seem to win in November and December, but to each his own.

Against NCAA tournament teams from a year ago Kenny is averaging 16 pts and 15 rebounds (3 teams). Yes we at Xavier are very happy with that production. Yancy has yet to play a team that made the tourney last year and he still is yet to come close to that production even though he is playing Thomas More type competition.

That average took a hit last night against Sacre. Fortunately he won't face many, if any, more post players of that caliber. Gates didn't exactly tear it up against Sacre last season as he had 7 rebounds and 11 points in UC's gam against Gonzaga on a neutral court.

[stophorseabuse]

Kenny was awful last night, no doubt. It didn't help he couldn't get an entry pass, or stay on the floor.

[xavierj]

Love it when the UC fans come out of the woodwork to Xavier boards when they have any kind of success. No other fans in the country over estimate the success of their teams more than Cincinnati fans. Funny how last year UC became a better football program than Ohio St. and they even designed ad's on the radio taking shots at Ohio St. this year they have been as quiet as church mouses. Now we have to deal with power above who is blowing a guy (Yancy Gates) who has done nothing but underachieve in three years and who has been average at best this year.

[bearcat65]

Kenny was awful last night, no doubt. It didn't help he couldn't get an entry pass, or stay on the floor.

Gates shares the lack of entry passes problem.

[bearcat65]

Love it when the UC fans come out of the woodwork to Xavier boards when they have any kind of success. No other fans in the country over estimate the success of their teams more than Cincinnati fans. Funny how last year UC became a better football program than Ohio St. and they even designed ad's on the radio taking shots at Ohio St. this year they have been as quiet as church mouses. Now we have to deal with power above who is blowing a guy (Yancy Gates) who has done nothing but underachieve in three years and who has been average at best this year.

Gates has averaged double figure points every season. 10.6ppg in 08-09, 10.4 ppg in 09-10, and he is averaging 10.6 this year. Rebound per game: 6.1 rpg in 08-09, 5.9 in 09-10. and 7.1 so far this year. Those stats may not get you All American but it shouldn't get you labeled an underachiever.

[xavierj]

Gates has averaged double figure points every season. 10.6ppg in 08-09, 10.4 ppg in 09-10, and he is averaging 10.6 this year. Rebound per game: 6.1 rpg in 08-09, 5.9 in 09-10. and 7.1 so far this year. Those stats may not get you All American but it shouldn't get you labeled an underachiever.

Not really an underachiever I guess but you would expect a 5 star guy who is 6-9 260 to produce more in the 16-18 pt range and 10 rebounds per game. Most expected Yancy to be at UC for no more than 2 years, now there is a question if he will ever even play in the NBA. He would have fit in nicely at Xavier where the expectations would not have been as high and they would not have needed as much from him right away.

[stophorseabuse]

Not really an underachiever I guess but you would expect a 5 star guy who is 6-9 260 to produce more in the 16-18 pt range and 10 rebounds per game. Most expected Yancy to be at UC for no more than 2 years, now there is a question if he will ever even play in the NBA. He would have fit in nicely at Xavier where the expectations would not have been as high and they would not have needed as much from him right away.

Yeah, this would be his first year starting at X, assuming he wasn't already in the league.

[stophorseabuse]

I take that back, he could have started over McLean as a sophomore at the 4.

[bearcat65]

Not really an underachiever I guess but you would expect a 5 star guy who is 6-9 260 to produce more in the 16-18 pt range and 10 rebounds per game. Most expected Yancy to be at UC for no more than 2 years, now there is a question if he will ever even play in the NBA. He would have fit in nicely at Xavier where the expectations would not have been as high and they would not have needed as much from him right away.

I would agree that expectations were high for Yancy. He hasn't really been a focal point for the offense though. In my opinion he should touch the ball every posession similar to what they did with Kenyon and Fortson but the past two seasons with Vaughn and last year with Stephenson they didn't really give Gates the touches I think he needs to have. Post players need to have touches to keep them working in the paint. That goes for all levels of basketball. Hard to ask a post player to bust his hind end and take the abuse they do in the paint only to get good position and watch someone take a contested 3 point shot.

[drifter]

Hard to believe it's that time again, I still remember that crazy double overtime showing last year.
I feel like UC has more depth but they have had problems with their shooting.
I wouldn't think much about their close games this year. They let IPFW get back into that one, by leading them the whole way and letting their subs walk the dog to the finish. They went up 20 something on Wright St. and one of Wright's players had hot handed couple minutes behind the arc. They still controlled the game. Let's not forget, we needed an OT to beat IPFW and besides, both those games were toward the beginning of the year. We knocked off Butler in regulation, you think IPFW is better than Butler? ...
Teams get better as they go along. UC had a terrible shooting night, coupled by homering refs at Oklahoma and they still lead pretty much through out. That was a decent road win.
Let's not forget, UK only beat Oklahoma by 12.

In contrast, look at the crappy game we just had. I know what you're thinking "Gonzaga is better" not really. Gonzaga has a crappy one dimensional offense and is shambles compared to last year. When did it ever look like we were in control?
Until Holloway can hit people with the pass down low and not try to hoist this team on his shoulders all alone, Freaze plays like an athlete and Lyons calms down, I think this will go against us.

Holloway 1 on 1 beats Wright absolutely, Lance Stephenson 1 on 1 beats Wright as well.
UC with Wright would beat UC lead by either of the other two, because when it comes to actually running an offense, Cashmere Wright can actually do pretty good. I think Bob Knight nailed it in the Butler game when he pointed out the stupid shots and suicidal runs inside that got nothing. Being a PG isn't about personal victories, it's about dominating the flow of the game. In that sense, Holloway has a long ways to go.

[xavierj]

Nice rant drifter. Rough night? What does Oklahoma only losing to UK by 12 have to do with anything? Does that validate something? Oklahoma also lost to Chaminade, Arkansas by 10, Arizona by 23 and virgina by 20.

[drifter]

Nice rant drifter. Rough night?


Rant: To speak or write in an angry or violent manner;

It wasn't a "rant" just because it was a long post.
As for what it means, if Oklahoma can give UK a game, they aren't that bad.
But instead of hanging this entire conversation on that one example(which is stupid given that Arkansas and the other teams mentioned in your post besides Chaminade could beat us on any given night. Wake gave us enough of a game and Presbyterian beat them.) I'll put it to you like this; they went on the road against a young athletic team who has solid talent and got a win by double digits shooting awful. We went on the road against a crappy mid major long past it's expiration date and got beat basically by 1 guy, sacre.

You tell me why should the win at Oklahoma matter? Why does that give us an edge? It doesn't. It's just some homer having a pissing contest while trying to hide the fact we've yet to score a high quality win outside of Butler.
Get over it. I'm all for gloating, but not if we have nothing to feel great about right now. That just makes us look stupid.

[xavierj]

Rant: To speak or write in an angry or violent manner;

It wasn't a "rant" just because it was a long post.
As for what it means, if Oklahoma can give UK a game, they aren't that bad.
But instead of hanging this entire conversation on that one example(which is stupid given that Arkansas and the other teams mentioned in your post besides Chaminade could beat us on any given night. Wake gave us enough of a game and Presbyterian beat them.) I'll put it to you like this; they went on the road against a young athletic team who has solid talent and got a win by double digits shooting awful. We went on the road against a crappy mid major long past it's expiration date and got beat basically by 1 guy, sacre.

You tell me why should the win at Oklahoma matter? Why does that give us an edge? It doesn't. It's just some homer having a pissing contest while trying to hide the fact we've yet to score a high quality win outside of Butler.
Get over it. I'm all for gloating, but not if we have nothing to feel great about right now. That just makes us look stupid.

WTF are you talking about?

Who is gloating? How am I being a homer? It looks like you are the one trying to gloat over a win over Oklahoma. I'm confused. As a Xavier fan I don't have anything to gloat about this year.

Dude Oklahoma is horrible as is Arkansas and Virginia just lost to Seattle at home. Comparing scores is stupid. Just because a team comes within 12 of another team it does not mean anything. I mean San Fransisco just lost to San Diego St. by 3, and San Fran is gawd awful. Use some common sense. Xavier may be a very bad team but you lose credibility by trying to make Oklahoma anything other than piss poor by comparing a score of a game against UK. And since when is UK world beaters? They are a very young team early in the process. So to clarify because Butler beat Florida St. and Florida St. beat Florida which killed Kansas St. then Xavier is better than Kansas St. right?

[drifter]

Dude Oklahoma is horrible


Okay, put our squad against UK and tell me, do you see a 12 point loss or a blow out? I remind you UK put away Notre Dame with ease and Notre Dame beat Gonzaga who just beat us with a guy inside and that's pretty much it. Their best player was benched.
Perspective... Oklahoma is a team rebuilding, they're young, unorganized and will be back.

As for horrible, what is Wofford?




as is Arkansas


Arkansas disposed of Seton Hall easier than we did. Arkansas plays as a team unlike us.
Arkansas right now gives us a ball game. They're average.




and Virginia just lost to Seattle at home. Comparing scores is stupid.


Okay fine, let's not compare anything and say we're great just because we are.
Circular reasoning is fun isn't it? How illogical and hypocritical is it to knock a team for not beating Oklahoma by what we consider enough and then ignore us almost losing to Wofford?
And if you're going to tell me Oklahoma is worse than Wofford, you have no idea what you're talking about. Wofford is "TURRIBLE" to quote Charles Barkley.
IPFW nearly lost to Toledo. I'll repeat that, Toledo. Until we beat IPFW in regulation, we shouldn't knock anyone for beating Oklahoma by 10.


Just because a team comes within 12 of another team
it does not mean anything. I mean San Fransisco just lost to San Diego St. by 3,

SDSU sucks. They are overrated and have had several close calls with lousy teams. They haven't played anyone yet, give it time and they'll be out of the top 25. I've watched them multiple times this year. They don't impress me.
And if we go by that logic, why should we be knocking UC at all?
Several teams have come close, so we should just ignore that and move on.
If that's the case, why even have this discussion?

Did you watch the game? It wasn't that they came within 12, they stayed in it through out.
UK is not Gonzaga. That is worth noting.
Saying scores don't matter is illogical. We compare teams all the time by score and by how much they hold other teams down and by how they appear against shared opponents we've had with them all the time. So does every analyst and publication in sports.
I'm sorry but your whole argument makes no sense at all.


"We can knock other teams for their performances, but you can't defend those teams with their performances!" What the hell is that?
I'm not looking to go back and forth on this but to say we can't use scores in sports is ridiculous.
Teams may improve and get better but a score along with other factors including health, schedule and environment tell us where a team is at.

[Tardy Turtle]

drifter's comical use of the transitive property is the gift that keeps on giving.

[xuwin]

drifter's comical use of the transitive property is the gift that keeps on giving.

"Xavier" and "we" should never show up together in drifter's vocabulary.

[drifter]

drifter's comical use of the transitive property is the gift that keeps on giving.

And the person I was replying to's use of Oklahoma not being beaten by enough while ignoring the triple OT at Wofford was what exactly?

Glaring hypocrisy indeed.
Apparently scores don't matter, so there's nothing telling about us having close games with Wofford, IPFW, Wake Forest ect. Even though I could look at those and see a likely loss at Gonzaga.
No, no columnist or coach has ever looked at scores when deciding who belongs where. Instead let's just rely on the W/L columns and remind me again how that helps us in knocking UC?

Are you retarded or just oblivious? I guess I could pose the same question to myself given that your name is "Tardy".

[Tardy Turtle]

Are you retarded or just oblivious?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gVFJgpK0Rbw/SGJCKKvuvcI/AAAAAAAAAE0/-07zjLu8i5g/s400/Pot+Kettle+Black.jpg

[drifter]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gVFJgpK0Rbw/SGJCKKvuvcI/AAAAAAAAAE0/-07zjLu8i5g/s400/Pot+Kettle+Black.jpg

In what way does that apply? I'm not the one suggesting scores cannot be used and simultaneously supporting the idea that one team didn't score enough on another.
I'm not trapped in an infinite paradox, you seem to be...
That was a serious question.

[xavierj]

If you watch him at all this year he has looked real good. I can say without any doubt that 100 percent of UC fans would take Yancy Gates over K Frease. If your happy with Kenny then that is fine.


Hey Power you still believe this statement? My guess is that is a lot less than 100 percent of UC fans.